03:19 <+XorBoole> it runs through the nine worlds of norse mythology
03:19 <+XorBoole> our yggdrasil connects all of minecraft
03:19 <+XorBoole> or atleast that's what I think
03:19 < nickelpro> XorBoole: I know what it is, I guess that's not a connection I make
03:19 <+XorBoole> also they're swedish so you can't blame them
03:19 < nickelpro> Ah, that makes more sense
03:19 <+XorBoole> plus it sounds badass as fuck
03:20 < nickelpro> ^^^^
03:20 < nickelpro> I think that's it
03:20 <+XorBoole> I still think they need some shit named nidhogg
03:20 <+XorBoole> (the dragon that nibbles yggdrasil's roots)
03:43 < barneygale> name of the treeship in hyperion I think
07:16 < MCorgano> nickelpro: Thanks! I'm working with node minecraft protocol, but i'm sure it could be useful. Any actual documentation for yggdrasil's mood swings?
07:26 < nickelpro> MCorgano: It's a mood swing, by definition no
08:04 < Not-9afb> [SpockBot] gamingrobot pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±10] http://git.io/v3dff
08:04 < Not-9afb> [SpockBot] barneygale 4442170 - Switch from PyCrypto to cryptography
08:04 < Not-9afb> [SpockBot] gamingrobot d40bbf6 - Merge pull request #81 from barneygale/pycrypto-to-cryptography
09:21 < MCorgano> so if I made a script that logged on and off, how long should I leave between attempts to make sure yddrisldfaljlf doesn't get mad?
11:52 < rooisnoek> hi everyone, when a block changes (e.g. the block gets mined and removed from the world) does the server send a new Chunk Data packet or a Block Change packet?
11:52 < nick____> idk
11:54 < ScruffyRules> I'd assume block change packet
11:55 < ScruffyRules> since it's only one block
12:01 < rooisnoek> just tested it, it does send block change packets 
12:02 < rooisnoek> so that means a client has to locally keep track of changes in loaded chunks. m
12:06 < ScruffyRules> Yup
12:08 < rooisnoek> does anyone know how to determine a block´s chunk given only its x and z coordinants? Do you just integer divide them by 16?
12:12 < gurun> rooisnoek, usually something like that yes.
12:17 < rooisnoek> jip, just checked the interwebz, X-chunk = floor(X-coord/16) and same for Z
13:08 <+ammar2> there's a faster way of doing it by bitshifting 4 right
13:08 <+ammar2> because yay base 2
13:25 < rooisnoek> good point, but only if youre working with integers!
14:05 < yawkat> isnt there a behavioral difference there
14:05 < yawkat> for negative coordinates
14:06 < yawkat> http://ideone.com/w2ifOR
14:06 < yawkat> i think you need to do the shifting if you want the right coords
16:56 < morfin> bitshifting is very fast =)
17:22 < morfin> when i need kick user i just push kick in send queue and do not read anything only send
18:05 < morfin> i remember somebody said about transferring H.264 video stream over plugin message
18:06 < morfin> was that smooth and not lagging?
18:06 < nick____> i think yes
18:08 < rubyrandom> guys, are servers that have no mojang (bukkit, spigot etc) code, and which are fully custom, still subject to Mojang EULA?
18:09 < rubyrandom> I mean this - https://mojang.com/2014/06/lets-talk-server-monetisation/ - and consequences
18:10 < johni0702> I'm by no means a lawyer but afaik as long as they speak the same protocol as the minecraft client, yes
18:12 < nick____> no mojang? ** isn't the official minecraft servers sourcecode in it, is legal, but the bukkit spigot cauldron is not
18:13 < morfin> spigot is extended vanilla?
18:13 < rubyrandom> afaik it's fork of craftbukkit
18:13 < rubyrandom> so, yes
18:14 < morfin> oh
18:14 < morfin> but what if whole codebase is different?
18:15 < rubyrandom> nick____: so, as long as server is completely free of any mojang-affiliated code (e.g. it's written in C, say), I can sell items for hard currency, provide "premiums" and do other "unfair" things Mojang said "no" to?
18:15 < nick____> i know, rubyrandom
18:15 < morfin> lol
18:15 < rubyrandom> no, that's question
18:15 < rubyrandom> :D
18:15 < rubyrandom> mind trailing question mark
18:16 < morfin> i remember played server where donators could fly(but not in PvP) and had some "unfair" features
18:17 < rubyrandom> was that before aug 1, 2014?
18:17 < angal> Eula still affect users who plays from vanilla client... Can they bay it?
18:17 < morfin> but it was not pay-to-win
18:17 < morfin> i think it was before
18:17 < morfin> but that server still exists
18:17 < nick____> i have bought vanilla minecraft(.net)
18:17 < morfin> because servers need money too keep up
18:18 < morfin> *to keep up
18:30 < Not-9afb> [SpockBot] gamingrobot pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/v3FdL
18:30 < Not-9afb> [SpockBot] gamingrobot 02fe904 - Update .travis.yml
18:33 < gamingrobot> morfin: I have seen someone do DH encryption over chat
18:33 < gamingrobot> that was funny
18:33 < morfin> what?
18:34 < gamingrobot> they did this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffie%E2%80%93Hellman_key_exchange over minecraft chat
18:34 < morfin> but why
18:34 < gamingrobot> I have no idea
18:34 < morfin> protocol is encrypted anyway(for non-offline servers)
18:35 < morfin> hmm Minecraft for PC uses TCP soo it's stream
18:36 < morfin> so streamed video/audio should work fine
18:38 < morfin> maybe even better than with HTTP(S)(?)
18:59 < nickelpro> rubyrandom: Bukkit/Spigot and all the rest of the NMS derivatives technically can't even be distributed
19:00 < morfin> lol
19:00 < nickelpro> A fully reimplemented MC server would be free of Mojang restrictions, but I'm unclear on how that would work with using Mojang's auth servers
19:01 < rubyrandom> nickelpro: yup, because they bundle code for what mojang owns. They can, however, later switch to patch-based distribution, where any mojang-provided vanilla code has to be supplied by server owner, so it can be later patched by bukkit/spigot
19:01 < rubyrandom> nickelpro: and what can go wrong with auth servers?
19:02 < nickelpro> rubyrandom: I'm unclear on if Mojang would allow completely third-party servers to use their auth servers
19:02 < nickelpro> Or if using that service requires some agreement inherent in the EULA
19:03 < morfin> i guess there is nothing about that
19:03 <+Amaranth> rubyrandom: The patch based solution is more or a legal grey area, not outright legal
19:04 < rubyrandom> if they won't, it's not mandatory to use them in the first place, afaik. And as to the best of my knowledge, EULA has nothing to state about auth servers explicitly. and if server is not conforming to EULA, it may not use auth servers directly, but use opensource free proxy that makes use of those auth servers.
19:04 < morfin> that sounds like hackaround 
19:04 < rubyrandom> so, proprietary server talks to proxy via public API, proxy is free and  opensourced for everybody to use, proxy talks to auth servers. Much like with GPL.
19:05 < nickelpro> It would be impossible to differentiate a sufficiently motivated third-party server from vanilla MC servers so the point is moot
19:05 <+Amaranth> Sticking in a shim does not allow you to bypass whatever rule you don't like
19:05 < nickelpro> ^^
19:05 < rubyrandom> it may sound so, but in this way dependency on auth servers is removed, and they are no longer requirement, so you can't say you "make use of Mojang auth servers". You might, but you are not required.
19:05 < rubyrandom> Amaranth: okay, what governs use of mojang auth servers then?
19:05 < nickelpro> rubyrandom: You're still using the auth servers
19:05 < nickelpro> Nothing atm
19:05 <+Amaranth> *shrug*
19:06 < nickelpro> This is just intellectual masturbation
19:06 < morfin> don't forget they can't forbid use own auth servers for servers)
19:06 < rubyrandom> rude :/
19:06 <+Amaranth> But sticking in a shim and then using them anyway does nothing to change whatever rules might exist
19:06 <+XorBoole> "intellectual masturbation"
19:06 <+XorBoole> I will have to use this in the future
19:06 < morfin> because that means only offline-mode servers will be allowed
19:07 < morfin> because own auth servers are not legit at all)
19:07 <+XorBoole> so, as far as the api is concerned, they haven't put out any ToS for it, iirc
19:08 < nickelpro> I've been implementing a Separating Axis Theorem algorithm to do physics in SpockBot, I have nearly no formal math education so it's been fun. Anyone know how vanilla client does physics?
19:08 <+XorBoole> nickelpro witchcraft
19:08 <+XorBoole> utter witchcraft
19:08 <+XorBoole> people have tried to understand it
19:08 < nickelpro> I knew that was the answer but it still makes me sad
19:08 < morfin> i have no idea what your implementation of physics is doing
19:08 <+XorBoole> they either go insane or end up working for mojang
19:08 <+XorBoole> whether or not those are equivalent is an excerise for the reader
19:08  * XorBoole runs
19:09 <+XorBoole> put it this way
19:09 <+XorBoole> G, as in GmM/r^2, is not the same for all entities
19:10 <+XorBoole> also air resistance
19:10 < morfin> hmmm?
19:10 < morfin> air resistance in Minecraft?
19:10 <+XorBoole> yes minecraft has air resistance
19:10 < morfin> holy crap
19:10 <+XorBoole> if you throw a snowball the parabola gets squashed over time
19:10 < morfin> hmm
19:11 <+Amaranth> I don't think you need the Separating Axis Theorem for MC physics, isn't that only for poly-poly collisions?
19:11 <+XorBoole> dx/dt is nontrivial in minecraft
19:11 <+Amaranth> Everything in Minecraft is AABB-AABB collisions
19:11 < nickelpro> XorBoole: Gravity and air resistance are entity dependent? I'm not surprised
19:11 <+XorBoole> pulling the values out is also nontrivial
19:11 < morfin> one question: why bot needs that?
19:11 < nickelpro> Amaranth: I did AABB-AABB and AABB-Plane collisions but kept running into edge cases I couldn't solve
19:11 < nickelpro> Probably I'm a bad programmer
19:12  * XorBoole is an algebraist so he doesn't know shit about this collisions nonsense
19:12 < morfin> i understand if you implement server and have that physics etc
19:12 <+Amaranth> The physics is implemented throughout a number of methods on Entity that use various fields on Entity and all of the subclasses seem to change at least one of these methods or fields
19:12 <+XorBoole> nickelpro I'm a mathematician-in-training and I could't be able to it
19:12 <+Amaranth> So they're all fucked
19:12 < nickelpro> morfin: All physics are done client side
19:12 < nickelpro> Well, many physics
19:12 < nickelpro> for the clienr
19:12 <+XorBoole> nickelpro wrong
19:12 <+XorBoole> the client only simulates
19:13 <+XorBoole> the server does all the real physics
19:13 < morfin> that's a point )
19:13 <+Amaranth> Nah, the client does its own physics
19:13 < morfin> i will have to f**k with that
19:13 <+XorBoole> only for the player
19:13 < nickelpro> XorBoole: My bot is a player
19:13 <+XorBoole> 99% of physics is server-side
19:13 <+XorBoole> and even then a lot of the player physics is server-corrected
19:13 <+Amaranth> It's "simulating" everything else but for itself it is authoritative so if you want to move correctly you need a physics implementation
19:13 < nickelpro> XorBoole: That's why I corrected myself "all physics done client side for the client"
19:13 <+XorBoole> ah, ok
19:14 < morfin> so you mean server implement physics(real) but client have own physics to render that 
19:14 <+XorBoole> the players talk about mincraft physics as though it's this bizarre thing that doesn't make sense
19:14 <+XorBoole> they're right about that
19:14 <+XorBoole> morfin correct
19:14 <+XorBoole> the client does physics for everything to keep things seamless
19:14 <+XorBoole> but ultimately the server does all non-player physics
19:15 <+Amaranth> morfin: This is why you get items that fall then teleport back up
19:15 < nickelpro> Amaranth: I thought that was because entities have velocity but the position updates are seperate from that velocity
19:16 < nickelpro> The velocity is just for client-side projection
19:16 <+XorBoole> (personally I think client prediction is annoying and should be toggleable in vanilla)
19:16 < nickelpro> Agree with XorBoole 
19:16 < morfin> well i see now
19:16 < morfin> parabola is really squashed
19:16 <+Amaranth> nickelpro: It's because the client and server disagree about the physics, whatever the detail
19:16 <+XorBoole> clientside physics are not required to comply with the spec anyways
19:16 <+XorBoole> only player physics
19:16 <+Amaranth> Without client side prediction MC would look awful
19:17 <+XorBoole> Amaranth depends on server latency
19:17 <+XorBoole> a useful thing would be an entity flag to tell the client not to predict physics
19:17 <+Amaranth> TCP RTT are bad enough already, throw in a dropped packet (they do happen) and that shit balloons up to over 1 second sometimes
19:17 <+XorBoole> sort of how players are treated
19:17 <+Amaranth> And without client side prediction you'd see everything stop when that happened
19:18 < gamingrobot> when I was messing around with the physics the bot ended up walking on water and the server didnt care, that was interesting
19:18 <+Amaranth> I'm still not 100% sure players don't have some prediction although it was the only reasoning I could think of for their behavior
19:18 < morfin> JesusBot
19:18 <+XorBoole> notchian servers are idiotic when it comes to cheat detection
19:18 <+Amaranth> gamingrobot: Yeah, the server basically doesn't care where the client is
19:18 <+XorBoole> since it's so old
19:18 < morfin> fuck the physics 
19:18 <+XorBoole> and mostly notchcode still irrc
19:18 <+Amaranth> It has a simple speed check and a simple flying check
19:18 <+Amaranth> The flying check is usually turned off because it's buggy
19:18 <+XorBoole> you should go talk to the nocheat people
19:18 <+XorBoole> they're insane
19:19 <+Amaranth> And the speed check can be bypassed by sending packets faster
19:19 < gamingrobot> is no cheat plus the most popular anti cheat plugin?
19:19 <+XorBoole> Amaranth did you ever see Thinkofdeath's speed client?
19:19 < morfin> speed check and fly check are simple
19:19 <+Amaranth> Speed check is not that simple, otherwise it'd be in CraftBukkit :P
19:19 <+XorBoole> he brought it to my server once, scared the shit out of my players
19:19 < morfin> hmm why?
19:20 <+XorBoole> Amaranth thinky proved it's impossible without a client fix
19:20 <+Amaranth> I tried to come up with a no false positives speed check over and over and over
19:20 < morfin> oh
19:20 <+XorBoole> we tried to fix it in CB and failed horribly
19:20 <+Amaranth> And then Thinkofdeath tried some too with some input from me along the way
19:20 < morfin> is that even possible?
19:20 <+XorBoole> no
19:20 <+Amaranth> Mostly saying "nope, that didn't work" :P
19:20 <+Amaranth> I got really close once
19:20 <+XorBoole> multiple mostly-sane people have confirmed that a client bug prevents a true fix
19:20 < morfin> i thought if you send packets faster nothing good happen
19:21 <+XorBoole> the bug is still open =p
19:21 <+Amaranth> But the client and network are just too unpredictable
19:21 < morfin> 'nothing good" i mean you get kicked back
19:21 <+Amaranth> morfin: Can't limit incoming packets though because they might be legit
19:21 <+XorBoole> Amaranth I like the part where you collide with an entity a million times in a tick and it goes flying
19:21 <+Amaranth> Maybe the client dropped the last 10 seconds of movement packets
19:21 < morfin> no idea
19:21 <+Amaranth> Maybe some other dropped packet caused a couple seconds of delay
19:21 <+Amaranth> These are cases that should be allowed
19:22 <+Amaranth> But you also need to block spamming the packet to get an advantage
19:22 <+XorBoole> player movement is definitely one of the most insane parts of the protocol
19:22 <+Amaranth> Yeah the engine kind of falls over if you send enough packets
19:22 <+XorBoole> given, it's some pretty bad notchprotocol
19:22 <+XorBoole> it's pretty bad too
19:22 <+XorBoole> since players aren't ticked in the main loop, they're ticked when the client asks for it
19:23 <+XorBoole> via movement packet
19:23 <+Amaranth> I fixed like half of that
19:23 <+XorBoole> insta-eat, insta-heal, fun stuff
19:23 < morfin> lol
19:23 <+XorBoole> I helped thinky test it at some point
19:23 <+Amaranth> iirc you can't insta-heal anymore
19:23 <+Amaranth> And you drown now even if you don't send packets
19:23 < morfin> so you instantly drink potions?
19:23 <+XorBoole> too bad
19:23 <+Amaranth> I didn't fix potions though, I remember that
19:24 <+XorBoole> is that in master CB or is it vanilla?
19:24 <+Amaranth> So if you get a debuff you can just spam packets to make it go away instantly
19:24 <+XorBoole> hmm, did LOHM ever make it to 1.8 CB?
19:24 <+Amaranth> I think every fix I made here also went in to vanilla
19:24 <+Amaranth> Nope, dropped the hashmap stuff because instead I made the server use the hashmap like 1% of the time
19:24 <+Amaranth> So that the hashmap was no long important
19:25 <+XorBoole> oh did I tell you about my trade api PR?
19:25 <+Amaranth> You can just stick java's HashMap back in there and forget about that whole diff now, it won't make a difference
19:25 <+XorBoole> after all these years bukkit will support villagers!
19:25 <+Amaranth> ha
19:25 <+XorBoole> (or would if md wasn't burried under a few meters of stuff)
19:26 <+Amaranth> We sat on a PR like that for a while and then villagers don't a complete rework so it didn't make sense
19:26 <+Amaranth> Hope that doesn't happen to you :P
19:26 <+XorBoole> Amaranth he has a pr in himself for careers
19:26 < morfin> i have no idea what you're talking about yet)
19:27 <+XorBoole> mostly hasn't pulled because he wants to make sure the API is sane
19:27 <+Amaranth> Controlling villager trading
19:27 < morfin> i mean all that haax tec
19:27 <+XorBoole> actually
19:27 < morfin> *etc
19:27 <+XorBoole> have you heard of the plugin loader rewrite?
19:27 <+Amaranth> Nope, don't really care :P
19:27 < morfin> i will just try to make my test implementation work
19:27 <+XorBoole> lol
19:27 <+Amaranth> Bukkit/API was never interesting then, it certainly isn't now :D
19:27 <+XorBoole> I'm watching the author slowly go insane trying to untangle it
19:27 <+XorBoole> oh did you hear shulkers are golems
19:28 <+Amaranth> The last thing wolv was working on was a plugin loader rewrite
19:28 <+XorBoole> heh
19:28 <+Amaranth> For like a year off and on
19:28 <+XorBoole> I tried writting a loader especially for scala plugins, didn't get anywhere because the current system is such a mess
19:29 <+Amaranth> He was going to turn it in to something like a simpler to use OSGI
19:29 <+XorBoole> I haven't looked to close at this PR
19:30 <+XorBoole> waiting until it's in beta before writting tests for it
19:30 <+Amaranth> https://code.google.com/p/jspf/
19:31 <+XorBoole> "usually type safe."
19:31 <+XorBoole> "usually"
19:31 <+XorBoole> 11/10
19:32 <+Amaranth> This is Java, that's probably the best you're going to get
19:33 <+Dinnerbone> Typesafe generics in java relies on you being nice.
19:33 <+XorBoole> Dinnerbone > typesafe
19:33 <+Dinnerbone> And yes, shulkers are golems, this is intentional.
19:33 <+XorBoole> > generics
19:33 <+XorBoole> > java
19:33 <+Dinnerbone> Yes XorBoole, that is what I said.
19:33 <+XorBoole> I'm not very nice to java
19:33 <+Dinnerbone> It is what you quoted from the page, in fact.
19:33 <+Dinnerbone> Me neither, thus my response and Amaranth's too.
19:34 <+XorBoole> why golems though? I can only assume they're either craftable or it's for the persistance
19:34 <+Dinnerbone> They are not yet complete, you can speculate as you wish ;)
19:35 <+XorBoole> better question: why is WitherBoss not Golem?
19:35 <+XorBoole> reasons?
19:35 <+Amaranth> Because boss
19:35 <+Dinnerbone> Because he's not a golem.
19:35 <+XorBoole> bah
19:35 <+Dinnerbone> The original working-name of the shulker was "End Golem".
19:36 <+Dinnerbone> Golem is a gameplay thing, not a technical implementation thing.
19:36 <+XorBoole> until jens had his name-brainwave?
19:36 <+Amaranth> A golem is a constructed entity, a wither is supposed to be a summoned one even if you summon him by constructing a facsimile
19:36 <+XorBoole> so, the wither is "summoned" while snow/villager golems are "constructed"?
19:37 <+Amaranth> That's a lore reason
19:37 <+Dinnerbone> That's pretty much it. There's another big rule though, but I'll wait until it's implemented fully before discussing that!
19:37 <+XorBoole> inb4 purpur block + pumpkin = shulker
19:37 <+XorBoole> pumpkins =  mystical keystones of animating power
19:37 <+Amaranth> The other big rule is if you build it it works for you
19:37 <+XorBoole> hehe
19:37 <+XorBoole> if shulkers aren't constructible I'm still adding it to my server
19:38 <+XorBoole> right after off-hand breaks all the things
19:38 <+Amaranth> minigames are going to need a huge overhaul I think
19:38 <+Amaranth> Balance and mechanic changes
19:39 <+XorBoole> well, if you're sane and use PlayerInteractEvent#getItem you're ok
19:39 <+XorBoole> but I'm an idiot
19:39 <+XorBoole> event.getPlayer().getItemInHand() everywhere
19:39 <+Dinnerbone> You're going to spend more time rebalancing things than updating code.
19:39 <+Dinnerbone> But yes, doing stuff like that doesn't help :D
19:40 <+XorBoole> meanwhile md wants to use an enum for the hand
19:40 <+XorBoole> still think it's crazy
19:40 <+Dinnerbone> Why's that crazy?
19:40 <+Dinnerbone> What else would you use? Boolean?
19:40 <+XorBoole> well, it's marginally cheaper
19:40 <+XorBoole> I just hate two-element booleans =p
19:41 <+XorBoole> I've yet to look to closely at the snapshot internals, because obfuscation
19:42 <+Dinnerbone> It uses an enum.
19:42 <+XorBoole> leg-wielding confirmed
19:44 < gamingrobot> maybe we get a third arm next patch
19:44 <+XorBoole> no, definitely leg wielding
19:44  * XorBoole stabs gamingrobot with a sword held by his foot
19:55 < gamingrobot> XorBoole: boot knifes confirmed
19:56 < angal> :)
19:57 <+XorBoole> kind of sad no one has tried to make a conversion script for 1.8 models to 1.9
19:58 < gamingrobot> 1.8 models?
19:58 < Not-9afb> [1.8-Models] drXor created branch 1.8 http://git.io/v3b3a
19:59 < Not-9afb> [1.8-Models] drXor created branch 1.9 http://git.io/v3b3a
20:03 < Not-9afb> [1.8-Models] drXor deleted branch master
20:03 <+XorBoole> now let's see if jenkins broke
20:19 < Not-9afb> [1.8-Models] drXor pushed 2 commits to 1.8 [+1/-0/±19] http://git.io/v3bcd
20:19 < Not-9afb> [1.8-Models] drXor 88c1b5c - Add de-commenter.
20:19 < Not-9afb> [1.8-Models] drXor bf0a2cc - Remove all comments.
20:21 < morfin> what most problematic things you can call out in Minecraft server?
20:21 < gamingrobot> call out?
20:22 < morfin> oops
20:22 < morfin> *call
20:23 < morfin> physics? protocol? AI? something else?
20:52 < nickelpro> As a practical matter, licensing, and how it conflicts with GPL'd projects
20:52 < nickelpro> That is what has caused the most grief for the community
21:10 < morfin> for now i do not care about that)
21:12 <+SinZ> protocol is ez, none of the physics is that fancy
21:13 <+SinZ> terrain generation and AI are two big areas
21:22 < morfin> oh i think about terrain yes)
21:23 < morfin> what do you mean it conflict with GPL'd projects?
21:26 < MCorgano> Bukkit was created under GPL, and people sw it and were like "This is awesome" and started helping with the project and contributing code
21:27 < MCorgano> Mojang then bought bukkit, but didn't tell anyone
21:28 < MCorgano> People contributed to bukit for TWO YEARS with GPL code. The GPL license says basically "If you use this code in your project, your project must be open sourced GPL as well"
21:29 < MCorgano> About a year ago, the devs of bukkit got tired of mojang's shit and decided to stop making bukkit. Mojang then went "You can't close it down, we own bukkit! Here's our reciept!"
21:29 < morfin> yes i know GPL 
21:30 < MCorgano> Because bukkit is MOD of vanilla minecraft, it contains some vanillia minecraft RE'd code, and a lot of GPL code
21:30 < morfin> yes i know
21:31 < morfin> it's written over vanilla
21:31 <+XorBoole> every single time I try to write a 1.8 -> 1.9 model converter script I go insane
21:31 < MCorgano> When mojang claimed ownership of it, the GPL demanded that the project either be completely open sourced, or that the project not use any GPL code
21:31 <+XorBoole> for the love of god someone else do it
21:32 < MCorgano> so a few of the major contributors DMCA'd it because of liscense infringement
21:32 < MCorgano> Honestly I don't know how spigot doesn't get it too, but it's a different project. Maybe different liscensing?
21:32 < morfin> not sure
21:32 < barneygale> MCorgano, spigot project doesn't contain any mojang code. they use a patcher iirc
21:32 < morfin> oO
21:33 < morfin> so they went other wqay
21:33 < morfin> *way
21:33 < barneygale> yeah
21:33 < morfin> but how it patches?
21:33 <+XorBoole> barneygale so that really depends on how you think of it
21:33 < morfin> does not that require classes modifications anyway>
21:33 < barneygale> XorBoole, yeah, it's just copyright law shittiness
21:33 < MCorgano> And his lead to a LOT of beanchine ideas how to do servers with plugins - you can't distribute code owned by mojang, so some people are releasing patching tools that "patch" the bukit-y bits onto a servr
21:33 <+XorBoole> barneygale it's enough of a gray area that most courts would throw it out
21:34 < barneygale> XorBoole, if you patch before you distribute, that violates the license. If you give your users the tool to do the patching themselves, everything is OK
21:34 < MCorgano> Others are trying to re-write minecraft server from scratch so they don't need mojang code or servers at all
21:34 < barneygale> supposedly
21:34 < barneygale> as bukkit is GPL not AGPL
21:34 <+XorBoole> what I'm saying is whether you consider the patches mojang code =p
21:34 < barneygale> oh, yeah
21:34 <+XorBoole> of course, copyright laws are not designed to handle software
21:34 <+XorBoole> so really, it's the grayest of gray areas
21:35 < MCorgano> This could have ALL been avoided if when mojang bought bukkit it ACTUALLY TOLD PEOPLE and then a discussion of liscensing would have happened
21:36 < MCorgano> Instead of them "oh by the way, we own you" and then getting DMCA'd
21:36 <+XorBoole> nah it would have just blown up sooner
21:36 <+XorBoole> whether or not they had done that, the moment someone felt like blowing up the project they could
21:36 < MCorgano> what mojang SHOULD have done, when that happened
21:36 <+XorBoole> so really, a patch-based system is the ground state of that mess
21:36 < MCorgano> IS release the official moddng API
21:37 <+XorBoole> mojang should have done a lot of things
21:37 <+XorBoole> however I am neither their management nor their lawyers, so I can't speculate as to why
21:37 <+XorBoole> speculation will only lead to madness
21:37 < MCorgano> The downfall of the largest most sucessful pluinable server would have left a wonderful vaccuum an official api could fill
21:37 < MCorgano> pluginable*
21:38 <+XorBoole> > implying they could have pulled the api out of their ass when es decided to quick bukkit
21:38 <+XorBoole> the api would not have that fast turn around
21:38 <+XorBoole> they're /still/ ripping out notchode to make way for sane systems that they can build an API on
21:38 < MCorgano> How long have they been working on the plugin API now?
21:38 < barneygale> bukkit should have been the plugin api. Mojang could have made parts of it official while working on the bits they didn't like
21:38 <+XorBoole> I don't know, you ask them
21:38 <+XorBoole> barneygale not really, due to licensing
21:39 < MCorgano> I mean ender dragon fights and purpur blocks are nice, but monty python chours shouts GET ON WITH IT
21:39 <+XorBoole> > implying they aren't
21:39 <+XorBoole> have you peeked at snapshot internals?
21:39 < MCorgano> barneygale: , to make it official, they would be required to open source all of minecraft due to GPL
21:39 < MCorgano> not recently
21:39 < barneygale> To make the craftbukkit releases at all, they should have made minecraft open source, but they didn't
21:40 < barneygale> they've just traded one license incompliance for another
21:40 < MCorgano> I know they have done a lot of work, jsut getting everything formatted to the point where it's easy to add things
21:40 <+XorBoole> they're not going to give us a half-assed API
21:40 <+XorBoole> whether or not they actually give us an API is an excersise for the reader
21:41 < MCorgano> If you take a look at starbound they are at that point already, almost nothing in the game is hard coded and you can generate whatever you want through config files, baring some things
21:41 <+XorBoole> except starbound was developed with that in mind
21:41 < MCorgano> It's just a bit annoying how slowly things move sometimes.
21:41 <+XorBoole> minecraft wasn't
21:41 <+Thinkofdeath> last I checked with starbound it was still missing the 'game' part
21:41 < MCorgano> Yeah, minecraft was most certantly not lol
21:42 < MCorgano> Starbound lacks progression
21:42 <+XorBoole> > impying minecraft has actual progression
21:42 < MCorgano> Although minecraft also lacks progression when you think of it..
21:42 <+XorBoole> starbound has more progression by virtue of more items =p
21:42 < MCorgano> Terreria has pretty good progresson and a lot of monsters
21:42 <+Thinkofdeath> minecraft was always focused on the building side of things anyway
21:42 <+XorBoole> terraria is basically finished though
21:42 < MCorgano> Iw ant minecraft world with terreria progression and starbound pluginability
21:43 <+Thinkofdeath> XorBoole: and they keep adding more anyway
21:43 <+Thinkofdeath> not that i'm complaining
21:43 <+XorBoole> when you fix your internet we really should play terraria together
21:43 <+XorBoole> mac/linux is stable now! \o/
21:44 <+XorBoole> at least, terraria's definition of 'stable'
21:44 < MCorgano> When was terreria made anwats? Did it come after minecraft?
21:44 <+XorBoole> minecraft predates terraria
21:44 < MCorgano> Stable is always subjective lol
21:44 <+XorBoole> a lot of people thought terraria was going to be a 2d minecraft clone but it ended up being a completely different game
21:44 <+XorBoole> it's more of a combat game than a building game
21:44 < morfin> yes it's different
21:45 <+XorBoole> the reason minecraft isn't open source is to prevent clones, actually. they're already rampant, allowing people easy access to the deobfuscated source would only make things worse
21:45 < morfin> hmm
21:45 < MCorgano> IT's like a 2d minecraft clone that they finnished making before they finnished making minecraft
21:45 <+XorBoole> (and other reasons of course)
21:46 <+XorBoole> mostly because the primary drm for minecraft is joining online servers
21:46 < MCorgano> I've seen a lot of basic clones, none that are good. Totally understand closed source
21:46 < rubyrandom> ...but what can prevent one from reimplementing their own clone from scratch?
21:46 <+XorBoole> but that's not a topic for this channel
21:46 <+XorBoole> rubyrandom nothing, but it's orders of magnitude harder
21:46  * XorBoole stares at steven
21:46 < rubyrandom> reason for clones not being successful is the momentum behind minecraft already
21:46 < rubyrandom> so I doubt any of them could make it
21:47 < rubyrandom> even having full source
21:47 < MCorgano> Find me one clone that is genuinely better than minecraft
21:47 <+XorBoole> better is subjective
21:47 <+XorBoole> successful is not
21:47 <+XorBoole> no one will top minecraft any time soon
21:47 < morfin> who needs doing that?
21:47 <+XorBoole> but I can't speak for mojang. they have delicious data that I can't use to base my arguments on
21:47 < rubyrandom> at least without bringing some substantially new mechanics
21:48 < morfin> can't Minecraft be extended etc?
21:48 <+XorBoole> yeah but people want to /sell/ clones
21:48 < morfin> if reimplementing whole thing
21:48 <+XorBoole> they do it for the money
21:48 < morfin> aah
21:48 <+XorBoole> unlike Thinkofdeath, who's just either insane or really wants to make a complete client
21:48 < MCorgano> I mean to distance the idea of "better" from "popular". Maybe clones don't have the community of minecraft, but I'd assume there are no good clones because getting a blocky world to the same level of development as minecraft is hard
21:48 <+Thinkofdeath> The way I see it Minecraft is like WoW, no one is ever going to be able to top it 
21:48 < rubyrandom> I hope doing games "inspired" by minecraft (regardless of whether successful or not) is okay from mojang's view?
21:49 < morfin> i am insane enought to try reimplement server)
21:49 < morfin> at least try
21:49 < rubyrandom> morfin: for free or for commercial purpose?
21:49 <+XorBoole> rubyrandom ultimately it's what they can sue you for
21:49 <+XorBoole> and mojang has a track record of avoiding litigation
21:49 < MCorgano> Thinkofdeath: Totally. Nothing will ever pass minecraft in numbers
21:50 < rubyrandom> XorBoole: ahem? so, any voxel-based commercial game, even not mentioning minecraft nor any art from it, can be cease'n'desisted by mojang?
21:50 <+XorBoole> no
21:50 < rubyrandom> that's something cool and new to learn
21:50 <+XorBoole> I didn't say that
21:50 < rubyrandom> "I hope doing games "inspired" by minecraft" - I meant exactly that
21:50 < rubyrandom> inspired, not cloned from
21:50 <+XorBoole> by "what they can sue you for", I mean "those things that violate their copyright"
21:51 < MCorgano> "track record of avoiding litigation" Understatement of the year. "What's that? Everyone is breaking our EULA? Well here's a new more lenient EULA for everyone to break"
21:51 <+XorBoole> which that certainly is not
21:51 < nick____> from here someone else tryed the minecraft survival test?
21:51 <+XorBoole> MCorgano > implying the eula is feasibly enforceable
21:52 <+XorBoole> it's not enforcable, but you're a dick if you willingly take money from kids
21:52 <+XorBoole> that's my stance on it at any rate
21:52 < MCorgano> They hold the login servers. Skip the courts, blacklist servers from validating sessions
21:52 <+XorBoole> and doing that manually?
21:52 <+XorBoole> it's infeasible
21:52 < MCorgano> What do you mean?
21:52 <+XorBoole> they could try but it would be a waste of resources
21:53 <+XorBoole> they would have to go server by server and do a nontrivial verification that they are compliant
21:53 <+XorBoole> auditing every minecraft server out there would be near impossible
21:53 < MCorgano> they could take down the top 10 servers who are all breaking it, they would change, the rest would follow
21:53 < MCorgano> Don't need to black list ALL the servers that break rules
21:53 < rubyrandom> "take money from kids" - what kids would suffer from alternative implementations of minecraft, except mojang itself?
21:53 <+XorBoole> they could, but they don't for reasons
21:53 < MCorgano> just enough that people know you're actually enforcing it.
21:53 <+XorBoole> reasons which I do not know
21:53 < MCorgano> I kind of wish they would
21:54 < MCorgano> just to see hat happens
21:54 <+Thinkofdeath> I thought most of the larger servers changed anyway
21:54 <+XorBoole> and which I do not care to speculate much further
21:54 <+Thinkofdeath> its just the large number of smaller ones with the issues
21:54 <+XorBoole> ^^
21:54 < nick____> ░░░░░░░░
21:54 <+XorBoole> the whole eula debacle is a slippery slope
21:54 < nick____> ░▓▓░░▓▓░
21:54 <+XorBoole> that's some lovely unicode art. but please don't put it in the channel
21:55 < MCorgano> I just wish they would actually enforce it
21:55 < nick____> ok
21:55 < MCorgano> Why make rules at all otherwise. Maybe now that they are owned by microsoft....
21:55 <+XorBoole> the eula is not our quarrel. follow their rules and let them deal with it
21:55 <+XorBoole> it's their problem, not ours
21:56 < MCorgano> I guess so.
21:56 <+XorBoole> our problem is taking minecraft and tinkering which it.
21:56 < MCorgano> Would you happen to know specifics of the login server (ygddrisl or something like that)
21:56 <+XorBoole> all this political nonsense is silly
21:56 <+XorBoole> yes, it's well documented on wiki.vg
21:56 < MCorgano> IF I log into too many accounts at once, or into a lot of accounts one after each other, it gets mad at me and doesnt let me connect for a time
21:57 <+XorBoole> MCorgano this is docs for the known Yggdrasil APIs http://wiki.vg/Authentication
21:57 < MCorgano> The wiki doesn't say how many requests in what time I can make, or how long it is mad at me
21:57 <+XorBoole> are you making sure to ask yggdrasil to log you out properly first?
21:57 < MCorgano> XorBoole:  I already checked that, but does not have the info I need
21:57 <+XorBoole> yggdrasil likes throwing fits over spilt milk but that could be your issue
21:58 < MCorgano> hmm
21:58 <+XorBoole> I suggest looking at mojang authlib otherwise
21:58 <+XorBoole> Thinkofdeath what's the url of authlib's sourcejar?
21:58 < MCorgano> If my script crashes... how would I log out first when I restart it next...
21:58 <+XorBoole> well, that's for you to decide
21:59 <+Thinkofdeath> XorBoole: https://libraries.minecraft.net/com/mojang/authlib/1.5.21/authlib-1.5.21-sources.jar
22:00 <+XorBoole> MCorgano check that out ^
22:00 <+XorBoole> is there a link to that on the wiki? I think that might be useful
22:27 < morfin> anyway i have a question: how legit are custom clients/servers?
22:27 < morfin> you seems to be analyzing protocol that's barely legit
22:51 < morfin> ok, everybody died again :(
22:51 < angal> Things that might be problem: 1) mojang authservers - usage of them 'oficially controlled' by mojang. They can publish license for it at any point..
22:53 < morfin> i remember one guy said they did not let him in
22:54 <+SinZ> morfin: nothing really that mojang can do against custom client/servers
22:55 < angal> 2) if you connect to vanilla(-based) client/server hat user/server-admin still should follow mojang EULA and your interactions are partly too.
22:55 < MCorgano> Mark the callendar I had a thought!
22:55 < MCorgano> How long does it take the yagdrissillin sessions to timeout if I don't logout properly?
22:56 < MCorgano> Maybe that's how long I'll have to wait to try logging back in
22:57 < angal> And of couse you can't clone any designed by mojang content/code/ideas (including vanilla gameplay).
22:58 < morfin> what do you mean vanilla gameplay?
22:58 < morfin> as example if guy write full copy of server with same features that's clone
22:59 < angal> Some unique for minecraft staff. Like summonable wither boss.
22:59 < morfin> or you mean another commercial project?
22:59 < angal> If you do this - you take staff they created - you should follow they eula.
23:00 < morfin> if i will have donating for stuff when using custom server(which is not limiting features etc) that should be fine
23:00 < morfin> otherwise it's not possible any server to exist
23:03 < angal> leggit != possible. Mojang often close eyse for small breakes of rules, ie for mods/bukkit. 
23:08 < angal> And if your server are catched this conditions, it's still allowed to exist. At least for personal use. Also if it not contains any mojang stuff - it can be even distributed. But it should always fit license (current and feature versions).
23:12 < angal> Donating for staff that not break balance allowed even for vanilla. So shouldn't be a problem. Until mojang change eula. :)
23:17 < angal> donating for stafff... hate this words... It's selling.
23:17 < angal> but nvm. 
23:23 < MCorgano> "donating for stafff" What horrible servers do you play on?
23:24 < MCorgano> I think I found my issue. Yagdrizzel seems to have a limit of 10 active session per IP
23:25 < MCorgano> This number was derived from my personal pulling of hair and much gnashing of teeth, so don't take my word on it,
23:29 < yawkat> could someone confirm http://wiki.vg/NBT#bigtest.nbt ? I think the tag order is wrong
23:29 < yawkat> longTest is first for me
23:35 < angal> tag compound is not ordered... maybe it was reordered by saving tool used. (but i do not check that file)
23:35 < yawkat> i dont think it's defined whether it's ordered.
23:36 < yawkat> but the tool output does not represent the file order.
23:36 < yawkat> looking at hexdump, it's definitely a different order http://s.yawk.at/56Iu
23:38 < angal> Does that matter? Compound is unordered. Better if you find this on test file, rather than on regular one.
23:40 < yawkat> it just bothered me because my lexer unit tests were failing.
--- Day changed lun. août 17 2015
00:13 <+XorBoole> compound is unordered, because the reference implementation is unordered
00:31 < shoghicp> I can confirm it's implemented using a std::unordered_map in MCPE
00:31 < shoghicp> I had the same issue trying to verify the NBT tag
00:33 <+XorBoole> does the original NBT spect still even exist
00:35 < angal> i think it's lost... maybe mojangsta have a copy of it.
00:35 < shoghicp> there is this copy from minecraft.net https://github.com/acfoltzer/nbt/blob/master/NBT-spec.txt
00:36 < shoghicp> http://web.archive.org/web/20110723210920/http://www.minecraft.net/docs/NBT.txt
00:36 < shoghicp> that also works :)
00:37 <+XorBoole> yey
00:37 <+XorBoole> of course both are inclomplete because TAG_INT_ARRAY isn't there =D
00:39 <+XorBoole> it does say compound is unordered... \o/
01:08 < yawkat> Ah okay. 
01:09 < yawkat> Still annoying :P
01:10  * XorBoole reads yawkat in an arbitrary order
19:00 < morfin> unordered_map?
19:02 < morfin> i am interested how you parse that NBT
19:16 < nick____> .
19:17 < morfin> that sounds like supercomplicated because some tags could exist or not
19:24 < rom15041> something like that https://github.com/PrismarineJS/prismarine-nbt/blob/master/nbt.js#L147
19:26 < morfin> aah i love JS with all that closures
19:26 < morfin> and insane "this" :D
19:28 < morfin> language of spaghetti
19:32 < rom15041> that code is not that bad. And you can do bad code in any language
19:32 < SuperstarGamer> Um hi?
19:32 < SuperstarGamer> Anyone on?
19:33 < morfin> i know
19:33 < rom15041> well I got to admit that 'this' in this code is pretty weird
19:33 < morfin> but JS and Lua are very weird things)
19:34 < rom15041> try perl
19:34 < morfin> because they can do same thing like returning anonymous functions where this is some place where from it was returned
19:35 < morfin> etc etc
19:36 < rom15041> yeah 'this' is not always what you'd think it would be coming from a OO language
19:38 < morfin> i should admit i do not know JS so well
19:40 <+Amaranth> So I guess nick____ does more than type "." after all
19:40 < morfin> this code is magic
19:40 < SuperstarGamer> morfin
19:40 < SuperstarGamer> Helo
19:40 < SuperstarGamer> And hello Amaranth
19:40 < morfin> hello
20:11 < morfin> ok i see now
20:13 < morfin> there is type of tag, name(prefixed by 2 bytes) and payload
20:14 < SuperstarGamer> Are you guys trying to figure out the game protocol?
20:14 < SuperstarGamer> Because I know it :D
20:14 < SuperstarGamer> Well, not all of it. But the base of it
20:14 < angal> lol
20:15 < angal> They (http://wiki.vg/Protocol) know it too.
20:16 < morfin> at lest parsing of NBT should not be veeery hard
20:17 < angal> Especialy, when you use 1 of tons free libraries for that.
20:17 < angal> :)
20:18 < morfin> i guess i can write own one for C++ )
20:19 < angal> Yes, you can :)
20:20 < morfin> too bad i can't store different types in unordered map :(
20:28 < SuperstarGamer> Do you guys know about RedstoneLamp?
20:28 < SuperstarGamer> It's really cool :D
20:29 < benbaptist> What does it do?
20:29 < SuperstarGamer> It's supposed to let people on MCPE and MCPC play together without Mods
20:29 < SuperstarGamer> They already have MCPE players spawning
20:29 < SuperstarGamer> And I'm one of the developers
20:29 < SuperstarGamer> If you want to help, go here: http://github.com/RedstoneLamp
20:29 < benbaptist> Oh man, I had that idea for Wrapper.py.
20:30 < benbaptist> that's awesome!
20:30 < SuperstarGamer> I know right?
20:30 < SuperstarGamer> Two of my friends started it after I created DiamondCore which had the same goal
20:30 < benbaptist> so it just translates player spawning packets right now?
20:30 < SuperstarGamer> No no
20:30 < benbaptist> or more packifications work?
20:30 < SuperstarGamer> We're building from the ground up. No wrapping around
20:30 < benbaptist> wait, so like a whole server implementation?
20:31 < SuperstarGamer> Yes
20:31 < benbaptist> Ah, interesting.
20:31 < SuperstarGamer> It's cool, right now we're working on PC mostly
20:31 < SuperstarGamer> Then we'll focus on getting everything else added :D
20:31 < benbaptist> Nice.
20:31 < SuperstarGamer> Well I have to go read, I'm homeschooled
20:31 < SuperstarGamer> bai :)
20:32 < benbaptist> see ya
20:44 < angal> one more from scratch server...
20:45 < morfin> ?
20:47 < angal> Who wil be first... Intersting.
20:49 < morfin> what do you mean
20:51 < angal> There are lots of incomplete servers... And all new devs start they own projects, instead of contributing to old ones.
21:08 < morfin> well i write own one for learning
21:09 < morfin> and i use libs of course to avoid writing some abstractions 
21:14  * Thinkofdeath smacks mojang about multipart models
21:16 <+Thinkofdeath> fire uses "north":true and fences use "north":"true" .-.
21:19 < morfin> i mean of course socket libraries etc
21:22 < Fenhl> Thinkofdeath: wow that's worse than the new potion effect tags
21:25 <+Thinkofdeath> haven't looked at those yet
21:25 <+Thinkofdeath> oh and for people playing with the snapshot: entity metadata got a rewrite
23:02 < nickelpro> Thinkofdeath: elaborate? What happened to my least favorite data format?
23:05 <+Thinkofdeath> nickelpro: i've been looking into it (still need to the do the docs), its basically index is a single byte now and if its 0xFF then its the end otherwise there is a type byte 
23:05 <+Thinkofdeath> some types removed and a lot added
23:05 <+Thinkofdeath> internally its a register system for types meaning the order the types are registered in decides the id (like packets)
23:07 <+Thinkofdeath> same for the index
23:16 <+Thinkofdeath> nickelpro: http://wiki.vg/Pre-release_protocol#Entity_Metadata
23:17 < nickelpro> Bool, if true then followed by...
23:17 < nickelpro> "Yes, but why?"
23:18 < nickelpro> Clearly you knew before hand if that data needed an extra field, why not just send 0xFF if it doesn't?
23:19 <+Thinkofdeath> its for nullable types
23:20 <+Thinkofdeath> as for what a null Position is used for (or a null uuid) I don't know
23:21 < nickelpro> Boss Bar. Another ugly-ass packet. Yay
23:22 < gamingrobot> Thinkofdeath: aww I just fixed the metadata parser
23:23 <+Thinkofdeath> :D
23:54 <+Dinnerbone> Those boolean-then-x types are Optional<x>
23:56 <+Dinnerbone> For example, shulkers have Optional<BlockPos> of where they are, or some mobs have Optional<UUID> of who their owner is
--- Day changed mar. août 18 2015
00:01 < yawkat> Man, I never got why people prefer optional over nullable. 
00:15 <+Dinnerbone> Because you can't put optional in generics. It's only really useful for coorcing into a generic system.
00:15  * Dinnerbone waddles off to bed
00:15 <+Dinnerbone> (*put nullable in generics.)
00:16 < yawkat> True 
00:37 <+XorBoole> Dinnerbone > optional
00:37 <+XorBoole> optional is java 8 no?
00:38 <+XorBoole> or, wait, guava has one doesn't it
00:42 <+Thinkofdeath> yep
00:43 <+XorBoole> did they (mojang) use optional before?
00:43 <+XorBoole> or is this a new thing
00:43 <+XorBoole> (also @Nullable is crap if it's not language enforced like in kotlin)
00:44 <+Thinkofdeath> XorBoole: new thing
00:45 <+Thinkofdeath> only the datawatcher (at least I can see server side) uses it
00:45 <+XorBoole> can't wait for them to bump to java 8
00:45 <+Thinkofdeath> I assume more will start using though
00:45 <+XorBoole> and watch fernflower choke on invokedynamics
00:46 <+Thinkofdeath> intellij's fork started adding support for them
00:46 <+XorBoole> the only fork*
00:47 <+Thinkofdeath> ok, its master :P
00:47 <+Thinkofdeath> we have a fork and so does forge I think
05:48 < Not-9afb> [SpockBot] nickelpro pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±4] http://git.io/vsvhF
05:48 < Not-9afb> [SpockBot] Gjum 1425811 - Fix various vector issues
05:48 < Not-9afb> [SpockBot] nickelpro 8a9d6b7 - Merge pull request #86 from Gjum/vector-fixes
11:04 < nick____> -
11:07 < Frigolit> _
11:27 < angal> ---
12:17 < Not-9afb> [SpockBot] gamingrobot pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/vsJ84
12:17 < Not-9afb> [SpockBot] gamingrobot aef4855 - Fix issue #83
14:39 < rom15041> ----
15:20 < nick____> ,
16:00 <+XorBoole> things I want for christmas: a switch for whether a model causes culling, and a switch for whether a model will use alpha
16:00 <+XorBoole> (both are hardcoded and it's annoying)
18:54 < nick____> Ծ-Ծ?
19:36 < Not-1ae1> [SpockBot] nickelpro pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/vsk4m
19:36 < Not-1ae1> [SpockBot] Gjum b985250 - Fix vector comparisons
19:36 < Not-1ae1> [SpockBot] nickelpro 2ba8766 - Merge pull request #87 from Gjum/vector-comparisons
--- Day changed mer. août 19 2015
15:34 < redstonehelper> XorBoole: too slow
15:34 < redstonehelper> hah, blinkenlights - I remember that :D
15:35 <+XorBoole> redstonehelper fuck off
15:35 <+XorBoole> also jar/exe are wrong
15:35 < redstonehelper> ok you got a point there
15:36 < redstonehelper> I'm still surprised people click those links
15:36 <+XorBoole> I hovered them to be pedantic
15:36 < redstonehelper> usually people download the snapshot, look for the first change to take a screenshot of and shit all over /new with "look what I found"
15:36 <+XorBoole> I too browse /r/minecraft
15:36  * redstonehelper downvotes XorBoole 
15:37  * XorBoole reports redstonehelper for downvoting based on opinion
15:37 < redstonehelper> can't prove it!
15:37 <+XorBoole> who cares
15:38  * redstonehelper downvotes some more
15:38  * XorBoole downvotes all of redstonehelper's changelogs ever
15:39 < redstonehelper> some are archived :D
15:39 <+XorBoole> even on /r/edstonehelper?
15:39 <+XorBoole> but teh history!
15:40 <+XorBoole> it also appears they 'fixed' spam-clicking
15:40 <+XorBoole> can't wait to see how someone breaks that
15:40 <+Thinkofdeath> ?
15:41 <+XorBoole> Thinkofdeath spam-clicking a weapon causes less damage
15:41 <+XorBoole> holding does more
15:41 <+XorBoole> also command block stuff I marginally care about
15:41 <+XorBoole> das blinkenlights though!
16:03 < yawkat> fun fact: mods cant see who reports stuff
16:04 < yawkat> it's super easy to annoy mods with reports
16:04 < yawkat> (dont do this)
16:21 <+XorBoole> yawkat because they'll assume it's you?
16:21 < yawkat> :D
16:35 <+SinZ> redstonehelper: I've seen people be shadowbanned based on only IRC logs
16:35 < redstonehelper> SinZ: more info?
16:35 <+SinZ> was a drama in the dota modding community ages ago
16:35 < redstonehelper> XorBoole: it's actually not holding that does more damage, it's just a cooldown sort of thing - my bad.
16:36 <+SinZ> to the state we have a bot say "Posting reddit links will get you shadowbanned" on ever non np reddit link
16:36 <+SinZ> every*
16:37 <+SinZ> 6 or so months later, the shadowban appeals started working
16:56 <+XorBoole> ah yes, the reddit thought police
17:11 < barneygale> internet forum moderation is exactly what orwell was thinking of when he wrote 1984
17:55 <+XorBoole> barneygale that's because it's the most efficient way to do things!
18:35 < Aikar> can any mojangsta explain why the Async Saving thread waits 10ms between every chunk to be written to disk? slows it down so badly. I'm having issue where when tons of chunks are unloaded, it takes forever to empty that queue... resulting in higher/less effecient memory usage. Removing that 10ms stabablized memory usage for chunk unloads greatly
18:36 < Aikar> (FileIOThread in CB naming)
18:38 <+XorBoole> wait, asynch saving is vanilla?
18:38 < Aikar> ... yes
18:39 < Aikar> you thought vanilla wrote to disk sync too? lol
18:39 < Aikar> just loading :P
18:39 <+XorBoole> I am pleb
18:39 <+ammar2> async chunk loading master race
18:40 < Aikar> ammar2, dont forget whos idea it was ;)
18:40 <+ammar2> muhammad?
18:40 < Aikar> well, thats what you call me, so i guess
18:40 <+XorBoole> Aikar 4 second comming confirmed
18:41 < Aikar> im trying to figure out what you just said
18:42 <+XorBoole> never mind
18:53 < Aikar> um, i was just told Giant is being removed in 1.9 :/ ? Please say this isn't true
18:54 < redstonehelper> they are invisible currently
18:54 < Aikar> will it be fixed?
18:54 < Aikar> some of us have put them to a proper use :(
18:55 < redstonehelper> we don't know
18:55 < redstonehelper> but they are officially unsupported
18:57 < Aikar> would really hate to lose that as a custom boss mob :( naming a normal zombie "Momentus" just doesn't fit.
18:57 < Aikar> unless I like stack 30 zombies into a cluster >_>
18:59 < Aikar> though would totally love a way to set on all entities to scale its size like slimes, and then it wouldnt be such a big deal to upscale a zombie and be able to do it for more mobs
19:05 <+XorBoole> Aikar actually I asked one of the mojangstas that at the minecon we met, I can't remember the xplanation they game me
19:06 <+XorBoole> something about the protocol
20:53 < Aikar> XorBoole, protocol for what? it can work same way as slimes. pass a size int that adjusts a scale.
21:52 <+Amaranth> I wonder if this sword charge thing is somewhat server checked like mining or if you can mod your client to spam full charge hits
21:53 <+XorBoole> Amaranth well the server can check it
21:53 <+XorBoole> and it seems wasteful to send it to the server every time
21:56 <+Amaranth> Just send the start and stop packets instead of a single attack packet with the power and let the server calculate the power based on the time between those two packets
21:56 <+Amaranth> And make sure to clear the start time on item in hand change so people can't hold one full power swing in reserve
21:58 <+Amaranth> I wonder if that's how it works
21:59 <+Amaranth> Oh I see it's not really a charge it's more or a stamina thing
22:37 < Not-2be> [mc-autodocs] thinkofdeath pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±52] http://git.io/vssRf
22:37 < Not-2be> [mc-autodocs] thinkofdeath 4bee1bc - 15w34a
23:33 < Not-1ae1> [SpockBot] Gjum pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±4] http://git.io/vssHc
23:33 < Not-1ae1> [SpockBot] barneygale 83ea6a8 - Simplify and improve BoundBuffer internals.
23:33 < Not-1ae1> [SpockBot] Gjum 62d473c - Merge pull request #89 from barneygale/bound-buffer-improvements
23:34 < Not-1ae1> [SpockBot] Gjum pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/vssHV
23:34 < Not-1ae1> [SpockBot] barneygale 20471f7 - Simplify packet header decoding
23:34 < Not-1ae1> [SpockBot] Gjum 65460b7 - Merge pull request #90 from barneygale/simplify-packet-header-decode
23:44 < Not-1ae1> [SpockBot] gamingrobot pushed 23 commits to master [+53/-2/±76] http://git.io/vss5d
23:44 < Not-1ae1> [SpockBot] Gjum 4e94683 - Add interact plugin
23:44 < Not-1ae1> [SpockBot] Gjum f83f2f7 - Improve _entity_action and look_at
23:44 < Not-1ae1> [SpockBot] Gjum 107bacc - Fix interact, improve usability
23:44 < Not-1ae1> [SpockBot] ... and 20 more commits.
23:44 < nickelpro> Sorry for the channel spam, busy day
23:44 < gamingrobot> "... and 20 more commits." yup
23:46 < Gjum> haha yeah sorry :D 5 of them are just merges
--- Day changed jeu. août 20 2015
00:24 <+Thinkofdeath> At least it does the 'and X more commits' now, I remember the days when it didn't. Merge commits were fun
01:03 < Not-1ae1> [SpockBot] nickelpro pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/vsGZF
01:03 < Not-1ae1> [SpockBot] nickelpro fd29b2f - Fix lack of session error handling in auth
01:03 < Not-1ae1> [SpockBot] nickelpro d62684e - Merge pull request #91 from nickelpro/master
--- Day changed ven. août 21 2015
00:47 < Sol_69007> hi
01:01 < nickelpro> Sol_69007: hello
01:17 <+XorBoole> Test
01:17 <+XorBoole> Ignore that
01:29 < Sol_69007> hi
01:29 < Lime> hello
03:12 < Lemon> hello 
03:53 < Lemon> hello
03:54 < Lemon> Ich habe keine ahnung uber das server
03:54 < Lemon> Ich das server guFunden
03:55 < Lemon> geFunden*
04:09 <+XorBoole> english please =/
05:12 < nickelpro> This channel gets weird sometimes
05:13 <+ammar2> ur weird
07:38 < Lime> hello
07:39 < Lime> How is everyone?
09:58 < Not-1ae1> [minecraft-data] rom1504 pushed 2 commits to 1.8 [+0/-0/±4] http://git.io/vsBoW
09:58 < Not-1ae1> [minecraft-data] roblabla 7cced95 - Use countType where possible
09:58 < Not-1ae1> [minecraft-data] rom1504 3afad17 - Merge pull request #32 from roblabla/feature-countType Use countType where possible
11:32 < rom1504> barneygale: now we don't need to even put the counting field in the protocol.json, even better that what you suggested (https://github.com/PrismarineJS/minecraft-data/blob/1.8/enums/protocol.json#L93)
11:32 < rom1504> (just need to specify the type of the counting field in the container)
12:06 < rom1504> Thinkofdeath: what does "Tracking Position" mean ? (the new fields in maps packet)
12:06 <+Thinkofdeath> don't know, I didn't name that one
12:07 < rom1504> oh yeah right
13:30 < Not-1ae1> [minecraft-data] rom1504 pushed 1 commit to 1.9 [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/vsRDW
13:30 < Not-1ae1> [minecraft-data] roblabla e949f58 - Use countType where possible
13:48 < Not-1ae1> [minecraft-data] rom1504 pushed 1 commit to 1.9 [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/vsRd1
13:48 < Not-1ae1> [minecraft-data] rom1504 93855ef - add field to maps packet (see http://wiki.vg/index.php?title=Pre-release_protocol&diff=6809&oldid=6808 )
13:53 < Not-1ae1> [minecraft-data] rom1504 pushed 1 commit to 1.9 [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/vsRb3
13:53 < Not-1ae1> [minecraft-data] rom1504 fc8ec33 - fix trackingPosition type : bool not boolean, fix is why the schema needs to be more precise about the field types (#29)
14:56 < Not-1ae1> [minecraft-data] rom1504 pushed 6 commits to 1.8 [+23/-24/±6] http://git.io/vs0s7
15:11 < Not-1ae1> [minecraft-data] rom1504 pushed 8 commits to 1.9 [+23/-24/±9] http://git.io/vs0lZ
15:11 < Not-1ae1> [minecraft-data] rom1504 127bd33 - separate protocol parsing and names transformation. Add better transformation to use node-minecraft-protocol old names
15:11 < Not-1ae1> [minecraft-data] rom1504 fc2175b - fix payload transformation in wiki protocol extractor
15:11 < Not-1ae1> [minecraft-data] rom1504 074b742 - in wiki protocol extractor : fix |- on first line, fix >9 rowspan, start implementing colspan
15:11 < Not-1ae1> [minecraft-data] ... and 5 more commits.
15:15 < Not-1ae1> [minecraft-data] rom1504 pushed 1 commit to 1.9 [+0/-1/±1] http://git.io/vs08o
15:15 < Not-1ae1> [minecraft-data] rom1504 a5f7533 - remove api.md which now doesn't make sense, remove npm link
15:16 < Not-1ae1> [minecraft-data] rom1504 pushed 1 commit to 1.8 [+0/-1/±1] http://git.io/vs08j
15:16 < Not-1ae1> [minecraft-data] rom1504 066f4e8 - remove api.md which now doesn't make sense, remove npm link
15:18 < rom1504> err sorry for the spam
15:20 < Not-1ae1> [minecraft-data] rom1504 pushed 1 commit to 1.8 [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/vs0BN
15:20 < Not-1ae1> [minecraft-data] rom1504 b1ca8ad - fix circle ci badge : 1.8 branch
15:21 < Not-1ae1> [minecraft-data] rom1504 pushed 1 commit to 1.9 [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/vs0RG
15:21 < Not-1ae1> [minecraft-data] rom1504 9395672 - fix circle ci badge : 1.9 branch
15:24 < Not-1ae1> [minecraft-data] rom1504 tagged 9395672 as 1.9-0.1.0 http://git.io/vs0Rx
15:24 < Not-1ae1> [minecraft-data] rom1504 tagged b1ca8ad as 1.8-0.1.0 http://git.io/vs0Rp
16:48 < Not-2be> [mineflayer] rom1504 pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-0/±9] http://git.io/vs0hB
16:48 < Not-2be> [mineflayer] rom1504 deleted branch mcDataMultipleVersion
16:52 < Not-2be> [mineflayer] rom1504 pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/vs0jA
16:52 < Not-2be> [mineflayer] rom1504 47ff78d - Release 1.4.0
16:52 < Not-2be> [mineflayer] rom1504 tagged 47ff78d as 1.4.0 http://git.io/vs0jN
16:56 < Not-1ae1> [minecraft-data] rom1504 deleted branch unjs_mcData
18:25 < gamingrobot> weeee https://gfycat.com/NiftyDenseBudgie best spockbot bug
18:27 <+SinZ> s/bug/feature/
18:27 < angal> Em...
18:49 <+AndrewPH> rip
18:59 < nickelpro> Russian judge gives 6/10
20:22 < morfin> wtf is that?
20:23 < morfin> that's just rendering glitch?
20:24 < nickelpro> morfin: It's my most recent project Minecraft Space Program. Only significantly less accurate than KSP
20:24 < morfin> )
20:24 < morfin> in KSP many spaceships even do not fly
20:24 < nickelpro> MCSP great success
20:25 < nickelpro> SpockBot first bot to reach Mun, much better than Mineflayer
22:23 < Not-2be> [mineflayer] rom1504 pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/vszTO
22:23 < Not-2be> [mineflayer] rom1504 2a8652e - remove digging interruption vanilla server never actually interrupt digging, but some server send block update when you start digging so ignore block update if not air
--- Day changed sam. août 22 2015
01:26 < Gjum> ^
01:53 < Not-1ae1> [minecraft-data] rom1504 pushed 1 commit to 1.9 [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/vsgL7
01:53 < Not-1ae1> [minecraft-data] rom1504 97606ca - fix link to documentation (add version parameter)
01:53 < Not-1ae1> [minecraft-data] rom1504 pushed 1 commit to 1.8 [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/vsgte
01:53 < Not-1ae1> [minecraft-data] rom1504 1454bb0 - fix link to documentation (add version parameter)
01:58 < morfin> hahah guys when you said about space program i remembered one funny plugin bug
01:59 < morfin> there was thing to ride any player using saddle but if player you ride on use saddle on you...
02:00 < morfin> you can leave Solar system 
--- Day changed dim. août 23 2015
02:37 < Not-1ae1> [minecraft-data] rom1504 pushed 1 commit to 1.8 [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/vsw4m
02:37 < Not-1ae1> [minecraft-data] rom1504 5e0629a - add python minecraft data in readme
02:38 < Not-1ae1> [minecraft-data] rom1504 pushed 1 commit to 1.9 [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/vsw48
02:38 < Not-1ae1> [minecraft-data] rom1504 0195ac9 - add python minecraft data in readme
06:42 < Lemon> hello :3
06:43 < Lemon> lol beggining syntax: "Hello, World!" Ending sintax: "Goodbye, World"
06:46 < dx> Lemon: hello, what brings you here?
06:52 <+ammar2> Hello World!
06:54 < Lemon> oh sorry was AFK
06:54 < Lemon> Im just around exploring servers
06:55 < Lemon> and I noticed this is a MC devvelopers server so why not chat in here 
06:55 < Lemon> developers*
06:56 < Lemon> are there any hacked client developers here at the moment?
07:03 < dx> no
07:04 < dx> if you're not a programmer working on a client or server project, this channel is probably of no use for you
07:06 <+ammar2> dx: are you a programmer working on a client or a server project?
07:06 < ScruffyRules> Indirectly I am. :P
07:07 < dx> ammar2: i wrote a bot/proxy for minecraft beta 1.3
07:07 < dx> or 1.4
07:07 < dx> or 1.6? whatever
07:07 <+ammar2> dx: sounds like you are a TrueCrafter
07:07 <+ammar2> damn what a dank reference
07:07 < dx> nice meme
07:43 < Lemon> it is 
07:43 < Lemon> and to mention I am not going to mention most bypasses here
07:44 < Lemon> I do have a question about one thing....why in the fuck do ghost clients exist?
07:44 <+ammar2> ghost clients? bypasses? what are you on about
07:45 < Lemon> never mind the bypass stuff, I really dont like ghost clients. They are just skidded
07:45 < Lemon> I was answering his question, I am here to talk about clients
07:47 < Lemon> I'm mostly just discussing about new clients, old clients, and etc.
07:47 < Lemon> so what are we gonna talk about today?
07:47  * ScruffyRules dies
07:48 <+ammar2> well usually discussions start when a few people start talking about a topic
07:48 < Lemon> cool
07:48 <+ammar2> asking about what we're gonna talk about definetly doesn't start discussions though
07:48 <+ammar2> if you've got somehting more specific in mind to talk about, shoot.
07:48 < Lemon> I am kinda new to this stuff, a friend just recommended hexchat and mentioned a few servers and this popped up
07:48 < Lemon> coolio
07:49 < Lemon> hmmmm, anyone know who WiZARDHAX is?
07:51 < dx> ammar2: what are we gonna do on the dev?
07:51 <+ammar2> dx: we need to add some synergy to consolidate a vertical slice of meta programming
07:51 < Lemon> ....
07:52 < Lemon> nice
07:52 <+ammar2> thanks!
07:52 < Lemon> welcome
07:52 < dx> ammar2: i kinda want to buy synergy
07:52 < dx> i don't actually need to buy it yet
07:52 < dx> i mean i can just compile it
07:52 < dx> but it's so nice
07:53 <+ammar2> I mean I guess, but compiling it yourself is an oxymoron
07:53 < Lemon> lol 
07:53 <+ammar2> synergy needs to come with your team
07:53 < dx> yeah i think i'll just buy it
07:53 <+ammar2> sorry, synergy needs to be organzied with groupsharing
07:54 <+ammar2> no one uses the term team these days
07:54 < dx> there's no tea in team
07:54 <+ammar2> there's no meat in team
07:54 < Lemon> group or team both work
07:55 < Lemon> btw what is this synergy (sorry to sound odd I just need a small explanation)
07:56 < dx> sorry Lemon but that sounds a bit suspicious, i'm going to have to ask you to show me your programmer credentials
07:56 < Lemon> *COUGH*
07:56 < Lemon> wtf u talking about
07:56 < Lemon> Im asking what synergy is
07:57 < dx> any form of ID card that proves that you're a programmer is enough
07:57 < ScruffyRules> Google it
07:57 < ScruffyRules> That's why google exists.
07:57 < Lemon> uh who needs an id to program?
07:57 <+ammar2> everyone
07:57 <+ammar2> didn't you get the memo
07:58 < ScruffyRules> r/outoftheloop
07:58 < Lemon> not reall
07:58 < Lemon> really*
07:59 < Lemon> I have never been asked this before
07:59 < Lemon> and no one has ever mentioned this
07:59 < Lemon> unless u mean ownership of some IDE but that is not a id
07:59 < dx> well maybe you've never hung out in exclusive programmer communities such at this one
07:59 <+ammar2> who is your supervisor?
07:59 <+ammar2> this is a problem
08:00 < dx> the entry-level ones usually don't care
08:00 < Lemon> why would I tell you about my supervisor?
08:00 < Lemon> and plus as I said
08:00 <+ammar2> so I can talk to him about this ID problem
08:00 < Lemon> I am quite new to this
08:01 < Lemon> then may I have an explanation of what an id is then?
08:01 <+ammar2> ok now we really need to talk to your supervisor
08:02 < Lemon> why should you?
08:02 < Lemon> cause if it is needed for such a small server it wouldnt matter
08:02 <+ammar2> you seem blisfully unaware of standard operating policy
08:02 <+ammar2> small server?
08:02 < Lemon> seems like it
08:02 <+ammar2> well that's not very nice
08:03 < Lemon> I dont mean to be ignorant/rude
08:03 < Lemon> but you really don't need to talk to a supervisor for such a small problem
08:03 < Lemon> and plus, you havent explained about the "programmer credentials" yet
08:05 < Lemon> btw as another question why are u bringing up the SOP?
08:07 < Lemon> ...ugh this is a boring chat I'm just gonna go chat about compilers being made in Java
08:07 < Lemon> or other stuff bye
08:08 <+ammar2> compilers in java? why I never
09:39 < nickelpro> Is this real life?
09:40 < nickelpro> I nominate the
09:41 < nickelpro> I nominate dx for best leading actor and ammar for best supporting actor, the Academy will definitely give you the oscar for those performances
12:26 < gamingrobot> what the?
15:54 < rom15041> Lol
17:38 < Not-1ae1> [minecraft-data] rom1504 pushed 1 commit to 1.8 [+1/-0/±1] http://git.io/vso0g
17:38 < Not-1ae1> [minecraft-data] rom1504 90ac9d7 - instructions to create a new wrapper
17:42 < Gjum> omg lol
17:43 <+SinZ> dx, ammar2: that was amazing!
17:48 < Not-1ae1> [minecraft-data] rom1504 pushed 1 commit to 1.8 [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/vsouP
17:48 < Not-1ae1> [minecraft-data] rom1504 f5e890c - add ProtocolGen in the README
19:44 < Not-2be> [Glowstone] gdude2002 pushed 1 commit [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/vsoAJ
19:44 < Not-2be> [Glowstone] gdude2002 df4c870 - Update README.md
20:22 < gurun> So .. what are we going to discuss about today ammar2 and dx?
20:22 < dx> lol
20:31 <+SinZ> Ethics in the workplace
21:35 <+AndrewPH> sexual harassment in irc
21:36 <+AndrewPH> & other related such topics
21:36 < Gjum> how to handle new users that know nothing about IRC but can code
21:37 < humerusj> A simple "your mom" would do too.
22:22 <+AndrewPH> evidemtly not
22:27 < HansiHE> what's irc
22:28 < Gjum> you arent new :P
22:29 < gamingrobot> how do I cri?
23:17 <+ammar2> u cri evrytim
--- Day changed lun. août 24 2015
14:38 < Not-1ae1> [minecraft-data] rom1504 pushed 5 commits to 1.8 [+0/-0/±6] http://git.io/vsPM4
14:38 < Not-1ae1> [minecraft-data] roblabla 3c6e446 - Add new type syntax [typeName, typeArgs]
14:38 < Not-1ae1> [minecraft-data] rom1504 1c1efbb - adapted and improved protocol schema
14:38 < Not-1ae1> [minecraft-data] rom1504 1c346aa - improve the schema some more : actually check types are coherent