17:58 -!- Irssi: Join to #mcdevs was synced in 376 secs
21:25 < Altenius> I read about the encryption protocol, but what is ASN.1 format?
21:28 < shoghicp> it's a public key format
21:28 < Altenius> Is there any documentation on it?
21:29 < shoghicp> you can just place the ===BEGIN PUBLIC KEY== before and load it on most crypto libs
21:30 < shoghicp> ===*
21:30 < shoghicp> well, that header and footer
21:30 < Altenius> well
21:30 < Altenius> What does the packet look like?
21:30 < shoghicp> as base64
21:30 < shoghicp> hmm... let me get a dump
21:32 < shoghicp> oh, I've to go
22:53 < Mathuin> I wonder how hard it would be to make fence gates work like doors with regard to doubling up.  Having a wider fence gate would make it a lot easier to push animals in/through, and would be nicer to look at to boot.
--- Day changed mer. août 13 2014
00:30 < Drainedsoul> Althenius: Why would you need documentation, OpenSSL (at least) can read it in just the way it is
13:24 < cindy_k> A feature? working as intended? really? 800 tabs? and no way to close them but to restart the client. I've added a few more since yesterday: http://gyazo.com/642d035194c3b4e6640aeb03f8f6f9e5
13:37 < eddyb> cindy_k: woot?
13:52 < cindy_k> https://bugs.mojang.com/plugins/servlet/mobile#issue/MCL-2939
13:59 < prplz> cindy_k i also dislike this feature
14:04 < cindy_k> its not a feature
14:04 < cindy_k> having tabs is a feature
14:04 < cindy_k> collecting 200 with no way to close them is a bug
14:05 < cindy_k> a low priority bug, sure, but I refuse to believe its intended
14:07 < eddyb> *sigh*
14:08 < jast> of course it's a feature
14:08 < eddyb> cindy_k: "can't close tabs without restarting launcher" sounds more like the minor annoyance it is :)
14:08 < jast> its purpose is that people at mojang don't have to change any code
14:08 < jast> which is very convenient for them. hence, it's a feature.
14:08 < jast> ;)
14:08 < eddyb> but yes, open a suggestion about adding close buttons on those tabs, on reddit
14:08 < cindy_k> which makes it a bug, I expected it to be labeled minor and shuffled to the bottom of the pile
14:09 < cindy_k> so jira is just to look pretty, bugs go on reddit. gotcha
14:09 < jast> some people have very narrow definitions of what 'bug' means
14:10 < jast> for example, mine is: if it does what the code says it should do, it's not a bug ;P
14:10 < cindy_k> ahh so you have no bugs then
14:10 < jast> exactly
14:16 < eddyb> redstonehelper: so I had this idea: blocks that have 6 full cube faces, each with an opaque texture and no non-full-cube face, can be considered opaque (in the cullface of a neighboring block sense)
14:17 < eddyb> redstonehelper: (and all other blocks would be considered transparent, translucent, etc.) - I'm curious if there are any counterexamples?
14:18 < eddyb> I got bitten once already, thought biome-dependent grass/leaf colors didn't change with altitude, the code disagreed :(
14:18 < eddyb> so I don't want this idea to flip later
14:26 < Drainedsoul> ebbyb: How would a block have a cube face?  Wouldn't it have a square face?
14:26 < jast> perhaps it's a hyperblock
14:26 < eddyb> Drainedsoul: the face of a full cube
14:26 < eddyb> not a face which is a cube
14:26 < eddyb> (did I use English wrong?)
14:27 < Drainedsoul> then you would just say that the block is a cube
14:27 < Drainedsoul> jast: Goddamn tesseracts
14:29 < eddyb> Drainedsoul: no, because that is imprecise
14:29 < eddyb> minecraft models have faces
14:29 < Drainedsoul> so do cubes
14:29 < eddyb> which are translated, scaled and optionally rotated
14:30 < eddyb> minecraft models are not cubes
14:30 < eddyb> I mean, minecraft block models
14:30 < Drainedsoul> what's your point?
14:30 < Drainedsoul> [05:24] <Drainedsoul> then you would just say that the block is a cube
14:30 < eddyb> oh, I see what you mean. I have counterexamples
14:30 < eddyb> a grass block is not a cube
14:31 < Drainedsoul> how do you figure that
14:31 < eddyb> yet it is an opaque block according to my definition
14:31 < eddyb> Drainedsoul: read the model files?
14:31 < Drainedsoul> is a grass block 3 dimensional?
14:31 < eddyb> :|
14:31 < eddyb> it has 10 faces, not 6
14:32 < eddyb> at least on fancy graphics
14:32 < Vijfhoek> So, a friend and I are working on a Minecraft Classic client, for shiz and giggles. Now, I wonder, does the authentication still work?
14:32 < Vijfhoek> With the JSESSIONID and all
14:32 < Drainedsoul> it still doesn't have "6 full cube faces"
14:32 < Drainedsoul> its faces are not cubes
14:32 < Drainedsoul> its faces are squares
14:32 < eddyb> Drainedsoul: full-cube faces
14:32 < eddyb> not faces which are cubes
14:32 < Drainedsoul> "full-cube faces" would imply more heavily that the faces are cubes
14:32 < eddyb> seriously, how do you say "faces of a cube" in English without using "of"?
14:33 < Drainedsoul> ...you don't?
14:33 < eddyb> my life is a lie
14:33 < Drainedsoul> you say "square"?
14:33 < Drainedsoul> the face of a cube is by defn a square
14:33 < eddyb> except a square doesn't have to be the face of a cube
14:33 < Drainedsoul> and?
14:33 < eddyb> *sigh*
14:34 < eddyb> I'm talking about a set of 6 quads
14:34 < Drainedsoul> "quad" is a superset of "square"
14:34 < eddyb> which are too hard to define using coordinates
14:34 < eddyb> basically... the 6 quads of the stone block is what I call "full-cube faces"
14:34 < Drainedsoul> if you have 6 squares you by defn have 6 quads
14:34 < eddyb> a set of 6 *specific* quads
14:35 < eddyb> in the local coordinate space of a block
14:35 < Drainedsoul> so you want 6 squares, which are the faces of a cube
14:35 < Drainedsoul> you could equally say "quads", since no other type of quad but a square can be the face of a cube
14:35 < eddyb> of a cube occupying the full space of a block
14:36 < eddyb> I just don't want to get over the IRC message limit when describing what kind of faces I'm looking for
14:40 < eddyb> anyways: opaque block (in my view): has at least one of each 6 faces of a 1x1x1 axis-aligned integer-coordinate cube using an opaque texture and has no faces that cannot be found in said cube
14:41 < eddyb> stone has the 6 opaque full faces, grass has 6 opaque full + 4 transparent ones (side overlay), something like a fence has other kinds of faces and none of the full ones
14:43 < eddyb> hmm, I don't think there's a block which has those 6 faces and you can still add a smaller face to make it transparent
17:47 < Not-9d73> [mc-autodocs] thinkofdeath pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±51] http://git.io/rwAxeQ
17:47 < Not-9d73> [mc-autodocs] thinkofdeath b8f71b2 - 14w33a
18:18 < Thinkofdeath> The "targeted block" in the tab complete is kinda cool
21:53 < eddyb> Amaranthus: is that you in #rust-gamedev?
21:53 <+Amaranth> Yeah
22:12 < Mathuin> Has anyone created a color table for biomes?  I'm looking for RGB triples to represent each of the biomes currently in use.
22:21 < TkTech> Mathuin: https://github.com/skiphs/AMIDST/blob/master/biome/default.json
22:21 < TkTech> WARNING: Viral, under the GPL.
22:23 < Mathuin> That's exactly the kind of thing for which I was looking, but alas not GPL-licensed so I'll have to go elsewhere.  Nice to see that someone else has done the thing, though!
22:36 < TkTech> Mathuin: https://github.com/mblaine/BiomePainter/blob/master/BiomePainter/Biomes.default.txt
22:36 < TkTech> Mathuin: MIT
22:45 < Mathuin> Much better.
22:45 < Mathuin> what search did you run to find that one?  I had spent a few minutes searching github and came up dry except the one you found.
22:52 < TkTech> "biomes", search by stars, read a couple descriptions :) Just looked for a minute.
22:52 < TkTech> Any kind of visual biome tool will require a color map somewhere
--- Day changed jeu. août 14 2014
05:49 < portalBlock> Hi I am working on a project to respond to client server list pings. here is the code: http://github.com/portalBlock/MaintMotd I am not sure what is not working as I have not done much with protocol before (thought this would be a good intro). If anyone can help me then thanks :D
06:35 < portalBlock> I just saw I didnt flush my streams so I did that and also added the PingPacket, It still doesnt work but it seems to handle the Handshake a bit better.
06:35 < portalBlock> (github updated)
11:56 < Vijfhoek> Can http://wiki.vg/Authentication also be used for Classic
12:16 < Lucariatias> Vijfhoek: Nope, see http://wiki.vg/Classic_Protocol
12:25 < Vijfhoek> That page only describes the heartbeats in detail
12:26 < Lucariatias> It has a little bit on user authentication
12:26 < Vijfhoek> It doesn't say where to get the key though
12:27 < Vijfhoek> Somewhere else I read that I should use /login.jsp, but that one is 304 moved permanently
12:28 < Vijfhoek> And the page it redirects to, /login, doesn't have the mentioned JSESSIONID
12:29 < cindy_k> Which minecraft reddit should I put my bug on?
12:30 < cindy_k> just /r/minecraft ?  
15:51 < TkTech> cindy_k: None? That's what JIRA is for.
16:03 < Drainedsoul> TkTech: Why would you go and report a bug when you can get internet points for it?
16:06 < SinZ> Drainedsoul: thats when you post the JIRA link to reddit
16:06 < TkTech> ^ Winning
16:07 < SinZ> link posts gain karma, self-posts dont
16:16 < dx> then the question should be: which minecraft reddit is more likely to upvote a jira link?
16:17 < SinZ> dx: why not both
16:17 < dx> "both"? did you mean "all of them"?
16:17 < SinZ> that works too
16:18 < redstonehelper> posting links to the bug tracker on r/minecraft will be removed
16:18 < redstonehelper> we treat them as suggestions, which have to be self.posts
16:18 < dx> a wild redstonehelper
16:18 < redstonehelper> hi
16:18 < dx> redstonehelper: but muh karma!
16:20 < dx> redstonehelper: well, you're the reddit expert here, what's the right place to get internet points from minecraft bugs? this is a serious question, cindy_k really needs those internet points
16:20 < redstonehelper> /r/FreeKarma
16:21 < dx> excellent. thanks
16:32 < cindy_k> no I rather not use reddit
16:32 < cindy_k> I was told twice yesterday to use it
16:39 < dx> ok, so, scrolled up, and a moderator of the bug tracker told you that it's not a bug, and linked to /r/minecraftsuggestions
16:40 < dx> er, i mean, scrolled up in this channel and found a link to https://bugs.mojang.com/browse/MCL-2939
16:46 < cindy_k> and around we go :)
16:59 < TkTech> Dinnerbone: Sorry for the poke, but I would definitely consider that a bug, no? MCL-2939.
16:59 < TkTech> Not sure which one of you works on the launcher.
17:00 < TkTech> cindy_k: Give it a bit and see if Dinner responds.
17:01 < SinZ> I hope dinnerbro does respond
17:02 < dx> if it's not a bug it's a "feature request to add close buttons to tabs", which is eh
17:02 < cindy_k> its a bug to have continual tabs created with no way of clean up
17:03 < cindy_k> I doubt its an intended feature
17:04 < Drainedsoul> They thought since they were programming in Java the GC would take care of the tabs for them
17:04 < dx> hahah
17:04 < dx> 10/10
17:04 < cindy_k> heh
17:04 < dx> GUI tab leak
17:05 < dx> better request a CVE number for this critical issue
17:05 < dx> could lead to DoS
17:08 < Drainedsoul> "GDB can not debug the process, because it crashes on large threads count only (800 threads)" oh StackOverflow questions...
17:11 < dx> wow, google managed to find that question, which was posted three minutes ago
17:15 < Drainedsoul> it's amazing isn't it
17:32 < Mathuin> /win10/win 10
17:32 < Mathuin> Bleah.  Good morning.
19:37 <+Amaranth> Grum: Thanks for adding NPCs to the game, you can go ahead and enforce the skin blob again now :P
19:38 <+Amaranth> Armor stands are NPCs, they just don't know it yet
19:47 < Thinkofdeath> Amaranth: haha :P
19:48 < Thinkofdeath> Hopefully they aren't animated by resending the nbt like I think they are
19:48 <+Amaranth> Thinkofdeath: They're movable entities with no default physics or AI, they're fully posable, and they can wear armor and player heads
19:48 <+Amaranth> But yeah, you probably resend the whole thing each time
19:48 < portalBlock> Humm, that sounds like it could be fun.
19:48 < Thinkofdeath> .-.
19:48 <+Amaranth> Oh they also have arms and can hold things
19:48 <+Amaranth> And can have names
19:48 < Thinkofdeath> yeah i've seen, haven't played with them yet
19:49 <+Amaranth> And you can make children NPCs because they support the baby mob mode too
19:49 < Thinkofdeath> If the animation gets smoother they will be a really good replacement, better than player NPCs 
19:49 < Thinkofdeath> currently you'll have to spam update their position
19:50 <+Amaranth> Right, normal player entities the client assumes the leg swings based on the fact that they're moving, with this you'd have to send the leg swings
19:51 <+Amaranth> But that means you get to control the swing too
19:51 <+Amaranth> I'm actually not sure if you can tell its an armor stand when it's fully geared up or not, that could ruin the effect
19:51 <+Amaranth> I suspect you can see the stand and pole sticking up out of it
19:52 < Thinkofdeath> true, a "target position" a "time" field might be useful for animating
19:52 < portalBlock> Is this a 1.8 thing?
19:52 < Thinkofdeath> (per a arm/leg)
19:52 < Thinkofdeath> portalBlock: yep
19:52 < portalBlock> :D
19:52 <+Amaranth> Oh, but you can make it invisible and then you'll only see the gear, that's kind of better
19:52 < portalBlock> True
19:53 <+Amaranth> I'm assuming the gear will always include a player head for the helmet slot, of course
19:53 <+Amaranth> Which means you can just change your skin and make a head out of it to get every head type you'd ever want
19:53 < eddyb> called `Result::unwrap()` on an `Err` value: Unsupported color type RGB(8) in '/home/eddy/Projects/hematite/assets/minecraft/textures/blocks/ice_packed.png'
19:54 < eddyb> Thinkofdeath: did they really take the ice texture and remove the alpha channel?
19:54 < eddyb> now I have to write RGB8 => RGBA8 conversion code just for that ice_packed file
19:58 < portalBlock> http://i.imgur.com/u2lST4W.png Cool :D
20:03 < redstonehelper> Amaranth: even if you hide the stand and the sticks the armor stand is made of, it'll still be missing proper limbs
20:04 <+Amaranth> Yeah but it might look decent enough to work
20:04 <+Amaranth> With armor, a player head, and something in its hand the only thing missing would be the part of the arms not covered by armor
20:05 < Thinkofdeath> You might be able to fix that with a resource pack
20:05 < Thinkofdeath> which you can force now
20:05 < Thinkofdeath> (Well "force" == disconnect if they say no)
20:26 < eddyb> Thinkofdeath: http://i.imgur.com/p87XX3B.png
20:26 < Thinkofdeath> nice
20:27 < Thinkofdeath> Vanilla's http://i.imgur.com/LBZJeBw.png
20:32 < eddyb> I know it, I've used it for a while with hardcoded offsets :P
20:32 < Thinkofdeath> :P
20:56 < Grum> <+Amaranth> Grum: Thanks for adding NPCs to the game, you can go ahead and enforce the skin blob again now :P <-- close but not yet ;)
20:58 < eddyb> Grum: hey :). I heard that per-world blockstate mappings are not going to make it to 1.8, is that true?
20:58 < eddyb> right now I have this Java "script" that dumps a whole bunch of data I need and it feels like a massive hack :(
20:59 < redstonehelper> if they're not in yet I really doubt they'll make it in for 1.8
21:00 < eddyb> redstonehelper: yeah, I figured, just keeping hole alive, I guess :(
21:00 < Paprikachu> per world blockstate mappings?
21:00 < redstonehelper> like, in one world stone could be id 1, in another it could be 104
21:00 < redstonehelper> I think
21:00 < Paprikachu> ah
21:01 < eddyb> redstonehelper: yupp. also all the states that are not saved right now
21:02 < redstonehelper> why aren't they saved, anyway?
21:02 < redstonehelper> is it too many for a fixed mapping?
21:02 < eddyb> they don't really fit on top of the old system
21:02 < eddyb> not sure if they don't fit in 16 bits, they might not :(
21:03 < redstonehelper> 16 bits are a lot of block states
22:55 <+Amaranth> redstonehelper: They currently haven't actually changed the world storage, they just combine the id and data when loading then map it to a block state
22:55 <+Amaranth> So if it didn't have a specific id/data before it still doesn't
22:55 <+Amaranth> Mainly fluids, fences, glass panes, and redstone wire
--- Day changed ven. août 15 2014
00:02 <+Amaranth> Thinkofdeath, Grum: See, NPCs! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yH0pxKidJ7s
00:02 < Thinkofdeath> lol just saw that
00:02 < Thinkofdeath> I can imagine the lag on a normal server
00:12 < Mathuin> According to the wiki, "extreme hills" has some mountains reaching y=124.  What's the maximum altitude the vanilla generator will make?
00:13 < Mathuin> Is y=124 the max?
00:13 <+Amaranth> Thinkofdeath: We don't even need a mod to do it anymore :P https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hi8hXvy3HUA
00:14 < Mathuin> Or is y=124 the minimum?
00:14 < Thinkofdeath> Amaranth: command blocks are the new plugin api!
00:16 < redstonehelper> this is good for realms
00:16 <+Amaranth> haha, literally
19:12 < Not-9d73> [mc-autodocs] thinkofdeath pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/FIt_BQ
19:12 < Not-9d73> [mc-autodocs] thinkofdeath 77afd4e - 14w33b
--- Log closed sam. août 16 01:07:28 2014
--- Log opened sam. août 16 01:08:37 2014
01:08 -!- Irssi: #mcdevs: Total of 154 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 10 voices, 143 normal]
01:14 -!- Irssi: Join to #mcdevs was synced in 355 secs
--- Log closed sam. août 16 01:15:49 2014
--- Log opened sam. août 16 01:15:58 2014
01:15 -!- Irssi: #mcdevs: Total of 155 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 10 voices, 144 normal]
01:18 -!- Irssi: Join to #mcdevs was synced in 157 secs
--- Log closed sam. août 16 01:20:14 2014
--- Log opened sam. août 16 01:20:28 2014
01:20 -!- Irssi: #mcdevs: Total of 155 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 10 voices, 144 normal]
01:22 -!- Irssi: Join to #mcdevs was synced in 157 secs
21:42 < eddyb> Thinkofdeath: teaser http://i.imgur.com/dm1hYHd.png
21:48 < Thinkofdeath> eddyb: nice, I see you have lighting working already
21:49 < Thinkofdeath> Smooth or simple? (can't tell from the small picture)
21:50 < eddyb> it's some kind of smooth (I guess I have better examples, but I'll wait until I get back home, the internet here is terrible and I have less than 50MB left)
21:52 < eddyb> Thinkofdeath: for each vertex, I average the sorrounding blocks
21:52 < eddyb> the sorrounding transparent blocks (air most of the time)
21:52 < Thinkofdeath> yeah I do the same
21:52 < Thinkofdeath> Caves look bad but outside looks nice with that method
21:53 < eddyb> Thinkofdeath: not what vanilla does, no?
21:54 < Thinkofdeath> I'm not sure, but their caves look better than mine
21:54 < Thinkofdeath> I tried looking at the code once... never again
21:54 < eddyb> haha
21:54 < eddyb> Thinkofdeath: do you have AO?
21:54 < Thinkofdeath> nope
21:54 < eddyb> well, that might be it ;)
21:55 < eddyb> ugh, time to implement the x/y/z rotations (and uvlock) for blockstates/*.json
22:31 < eddyb> Thinkofdeath: I really wonder how uvlock is implemented
22:32  * Thinkofdeath looks up what uvlock does
22:32 < eddyb> my best guess would be that it takes the entire texture tile a face is using, and rotate the UVs in the opposite direction or something
22:33 < eddyb> Thinkofdeath: it makes things like rotated wood stairs keep the "grain" that goes north-south or west-east
22:33 < redstonehelper> eddyb have a few links regarding that, want them?
22:33 < redstonehelper> I have*
22:33 < eddyb> redstonehelper: oh, please share :D
22:34 < redstonehelper> a comment by mog about a recent change here https://bugs.mojang.com/browse/MC-65994
22:35 < redstonehelper> and I think he talks about uvlock in here too http://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/22vu5w/upcoming_changes_to_the_block_model_system/
22:36 < redstonehelper> that's all the specific ones I can remember
22:36 < redstonehelper> but I have probably a couple dozen more about the model format spread across my changelogs, if you can be bothered to look through there
22:37 < Thinkofdeath> sounds like the realignTextures method I use for stairs, kinda
22:37 < Thinkofdeath> http://git.io/P6zDLg
22:39 < eddyb> redstonehelper: the "wrap by 16" thing sounds close to what I had in mind - i.e. split each UV coordinate into tile coord and sub-tile coords
22:39 < eddyb> and rotate the sub-tile coords
22:39 < redstonehelper> I am absolutely incompetent when it comes to modelling
22:39 < redstonehelper> I know roughly what can be done, but not how
22:39 < redstonehelper> do you happen to know of any good documentation on it?
22:40 < Thinkofdeath> mcwiki has some
22:40 < Thinkofdeath> http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Block_models
22:41 < redstonehelper> merci
22:42 < eddyb> btw, there are no full-model z rotations, and x rotations are applied before y rotations (at least from taking a quick look at the blockstate files) - is that assumption correct?
22:43 < Thinkofdeath> I'm trying to wake up someone i know has played with the models a lot
22:43 < Thinkofdeath> http://puu.sh/aVf1e/2df377dabe.png
22:44 < redstonehelper> that vanilla?
22:44 < redstonehelper> I thought models can either inherit an existing model and rotate it or add new stuff, but not both
22:45 < redstonehelper> but this clearly has loads of rotation
22:45 < Thinkofdeath> redstonehelper: yeah thats vanilla
22:45 < redstonehelper> neat
22:45 < eddyb> redstonehelper: each element has its own rotation *and* individual faces can be rotated
22:46 < redstonehelper> ah
22:46 < eddyb> so you basically have arbitrary quads :P
22:47 < eddyb> what are the small things there o_O?
22:47 < Thinkofdeath> oh apparently that model has 256 variants o.O
22:47 < eddyb> wat
22:48 < eddyb> rotation + bottles?
22:48 < redstonehelper> no rotation in vanilla I think
22:48 < eddyb> 4 * 8 is only 32
22:48 < Thinkofdeath> and the items around them I guess
22:48 < redstonehelper> but those must be random then
22:48 < Thinkofdeath> yeah
22:48 < redstonehelper> the block model doesn't know what item is in the top slot
22:49 < eddyb> Thinkofdeath: now I want those to test my implementation :D
22:50 < Thinkofdeath> I'm still trying to get him but he seems to be afk :(
22:50 < redstonehelper> eddyb: this one has loads of models http://www.planetminecraft.com/texture_pack/default-3d-2985741/
22:50 < eddyb> redstonehelper: thanks, I'll check it out when I get home
--- Day changed dim. août 17 2014
02:12 < Thinkofdeath> redstonehelper: If you feel like trying out his pack https://github.com/drXor/1.8-Models :)
02:13 < redstonehelper> I will in a few days maybe
02:13 < redstonehelper> thanks
11:54 < Aragas> This new 3D is very impressive. Gorgeous work
12:18 < Flemmard> what new 3d ?
18:20 < LambdaSix> DRY makes you coupled, decoupling leads to repetition, oh noes.
--- Day changed lun. août 18 2014
01:17 < rbreslow> Anyone want to help me get Spock Bot running? Here's my stack trace when I try to run the demo.py file: http://puu.sh/aWSNC.png
01:20 < Not-9d73> [Glowstone] SpaceManiac pushed 1 commit [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/17GREg
01:20 < Not-9d73> [Glowstone] SpaceManiac fce340c - Build against newer flow-networking snapshots.
03:40 < ackpacket> so.... since the encryption is CFB8, if the server needs to send me 77 bytes what can I expect?  Will it be padded? with what?
03:49 <+SpaceManiac> No padding, the encryption takes place on a byte for byte basis
03:51 < ackpacket> That can't be right, since the wiki says the IV is uses as the first input.  The IV is 16 bytes
03:52 < ackpacket> the input to AES is 2*plaintext_block_size, isn't it?
03:52 < ackpacket> er... to AES CFB
03:54 < ackpacket> this is a pita in python -.-
03:54 < ackpacket> it might be worth it to digest the other repos out there
04:01 < ackpacket> Since the IV is 16 bytes, wouldn't this image imply that the block size for AES is 16 bytes?  With a ciphertext output of half of that, 8 bytes.  http://snag.gy/JRu8q.jpg
04:17 <+SpaceManiac> Yeah, I don't fully understand it myself despite having managed to implement it...
04:18 <+SpaceManiac> The block size is still 16 bytes but there's some shenanigans that lets it work in 1-byte units
04:28 < ackpacket> what have you implemented it in?
04:29 < ackpacket> I wish I could get a dump of packets, keys and their ciphertext.  Would be a nice sanity check.
04:30 <+SpaceManiac> Java, personally. I think I've seen a Python implementation though...
04:30 < ackpacket> Yeah, i'm coming through it now.  There are a few, but only one that really makes use of the new encryption
04:31 < ackpacket> It seems like *everyone's* implementation is in java, why is that?  Are these tools ready to roll?  Or is it because you can reuse some of the client code
04:31 < ackpacket> the vanilla client code, that is
04:33 < ackpacket> SpaceManiac: if it means anything to you, I discovered where the confusion is
04:33 <+SpaceManiac> I think it's just a side effect of Java being a popular language for these kinds of things
04:34 < ackpacket> it looks like the block size is indeed 16 bytes as expected
04:34 < ackpacket> it's the SEGMENT SIZE that is 8
04:34 < ackpacket> which allows it to work on a byte-by-byte basis
04:35 < ackpacket> what isn't shown in that diagram I showed you, is that only a portion of the previous output is used as the next input
05:46 < Drainedsoul> ackpacket: I've implemented it in C++
05:46 < ackpacket> ew.  Was that fun?
05:46 < ackpacket> How did you handle the sockets, nonblocking polling or threaded?
05:46 < Drainedsoul> ? what do you mean ?
05:47 < ackpacket> wait... what did you implement?
05:47 < Drainedsoul> just because it's nonblocking, doesn't mean it's polling, or non-threading
05:47 < Drainedsoul> my network stack was built ontop of IOCP on Windows
05:47 < Drainedsoul> epoll on Linux
05:47 < Drainedsoul> using std::hardware_concurrency() worker threads
05:47 < ackpacket> Got it.
05:48 < Drainedsoul> anyway, it wasn't difficult.  There's out of the box support for AES128CFB8 in OpenSSL
05:48 < ackpacket> I think i've found some solutions in python.  AES allows setting of a segment size
05:48 < Drainedsoul> so I just invoked the appropriate OpenSSL APIs
05:49 < ackpacket> so what were you building anyway?  A client to...
05:49 < Drainedsoul> server
05:49 < Drainedsoul> I started a complete ground up rewrite of it through because I was dissatisfied with some core architectural decisions.
06:44 < ackpacket> Drainedsoul: that sounds like a hell of a task
06:50 < Drainedsoul> ackpacket: It's not so bad
06:51 < ackpacket> Drainedsoul: how far have you come in how long?
06:52 < Drainedsoul> in the rewrite?
06:52 < ackpacket> yup
06:52 < ackpacket> Drainedsoul: I still remember your name was on wiki.vg in one of the TCP dumps.  That is, before encryption was added.
06:53 < Drainedsoul> ackpacket: First commit to the git repo was May 7, 2014.  I'm not really developing it in the weird ad hoc way that most people seem to develop servers though.
06:54 < Drainedsoul> so I have NBT utilities, JSON utilities, Mojang API utilities, all the utilities needed for encryption/hashing/etc.
06:54 < Drainedsoul> protocol parsing
06:54 < Drainedsoul> database abstractions
06:54 < Drainedsoul> a lot of OS wrappers so it can be cross-platform
06:54 < Drainedsoul> a module loader
06:55 < Drainedsoul> String formatting utilities
06:55 < Drainedsoul> threading utilities.  Like a resource pool, thread pool, cross-platform fiber implementation, threaded queue (i.e. message queue)
06:56 < Drainedsoul> A CLI library for Windows, have yet to implement the back-end of that on top of ncurses
06:56 < Drainedsoul> http://i.imgur.com/koL3SG4.png
06:57 < Drainedsoul> I wrote all the code to layout text/wrap lines/etc. like that on top of the Unicode Line Breaking Algorithm
06:58 < ackpacket> Where do you hope to go with it all?  You want a running server that is under your control?
06:58 < Drainedsoul> but there's no "server" per se, it's just a library of Minecraft- and server-related utilities, which is what I want.  The protocol parsing library, for example, is fully capable of parsing the client side of it
06:59 < ackpacket> ah, got it.
06:59 < Drainedsoul> https://github.com/RobertLeahy/MCPP this is where I got to before the rewrite, you can see there was terrain generation in the screenshots
07:00 < ackpacket> That mountain in the first shot honestly looks fantastic
07:01 < Drainedsoul> http://imgur.com/a/4vbOJ#0
07:01 < Drainedsoul> I actually never added screenshots to the readme as I progressed further with terrain gen
07:13 < ackpacket> I like what you did with the beaches.  Much more realistic
07:14 < Drainedsoul> yeah I spent a lot of time on my terrain gen, it was fun
07:15 < ackpacket> Would be great if you could improve trees
07:15 < ackpacket> For instance when I camp there's a river we go down that is completely covered overhead by trees reaching out and over
07:15 < ackpacket> Seems to be a common scene
07:15 < Drainedsoul> yeah
07:16 < Drainedsoul> well my idea isn't so much to implement everything myself, but to make a system that's extensible, via modules.
07:16 < Drainedsoul> The way I'm designing it right now, p. much everything is a module
07:16 < Drainedsoul> http://i.imgur.com/hvniUsL.png
12:47  * md_5 pokes Dinnerbone about custom payload during login. Forge says they would appreciate it too
12:53 < dx> pinging on monday instead of sunday sounds like a better plan, yes
12:57 < Thinkofdeath> whilst we are pinging:
12:59 < Thinkofdeath> Dinnerbone: In what case would the client try and cast the inflater decoder to the deflator encoder :P
12:59 < Thinkofdeath> http://i.imgur.com/StvjaRK.png
13:19 < SinZ> lol
14:06 < Thinkofdeath> Dinnerbone: Seems to happen when using play's Set Compression packet
14:15 < Thinkofdeath> Posted an issue for it
14:15 < Thinkofdeath> https://bugs.mojang.com/browse/MC-67961
14:16  * Thinkofdeath waits for it to be closed as not vanilla
14:18 < redstonehelper> Thinkofdeath: typo, "causes the client the client to disconnect"
14:18 < Thinkofdeath> fixed thanks :)
14:18 < Drainedsoul> Thinkofdeath: Wait, set compression isn't used in vanilla?  Or just not the play version?
14:19 < Thinkofdeath> just not the play version
14:19 < Drainedsoul> I don't understand how the play version is useful
14:19 < Thinkofdeath> its useful for proxies like bungee
14:19 < Drainedsoul> given that there's -- as far as I know -- no acknowledgement, how can you prevent race conditions?
14:19 < Thinkofdeath> since each server may have a different threshold
14:20 < Drainedsoul> adjusting the compression on the fly could make in flight, valid compressed/decompressed packets suddenly erroneous when received
14:20 < Thinkofdeath> hmm
14:21 < Thinkofdeath> good point
14:22 < Drainedsoul> I guess you could hack your way around it.  Send SetCompression and then KeepAlive, and when you get the KeepAlive with the same ID back, that's your acknowledgement
14:22 < Thinkofdeath> :/ i'll just disable that part for now
14:23 < Thinkofdeath> breaks one optimization but its better than hacking around it for now
14:23 < Drainedsoul> what optimization is that?
14:23 < Thinkofdeath> Skipping compressed packets which we don't care about e.g. chunk packets
14:24 < Drainedsoul> I don't follow
14:24 < Thinkofdeath> Currently we decompress and recompress every packet the proxy gets, including chunks
14:24 < Thinkofdeath> the proxy doesn't need to read the chunks only the client so we could skip the decompression par
14:25 < Thinkofdeath> *part
14:25 < Drainedsoul> what's preventing that?
14:25 < Drainedsoul> and how would this have enabled it?
14:25 < Thinkofdeath> if the client and server have different thresholds (e.g. switching to a different server with different settings) then a packet we skip might not be within the theshold anymore
14:26 < Drainedsoul> ah okay, that makes sense
14:26 < Thinkofdeath> and the client does check that the packet should have been compressed and disconnects if its wrong
15:13 < Thinkofdeath> https://bugs.mojang.com/browse/MC-67961 Called it :/
15:13 < Thinkofdeath> oh well 
15:25  * cindy_k gives Thinkofdeath a cookie
15:26 < cindy_k> welcome to the bugtracker is not for bugs club.
15:26  * Thinkofdeath sits in a corner with the cookie, giving evil looks to Dinnerbone 
15:31 < l4mRh4X0r> The fun part is, the mod closing it is referring to "the bugtracker rules", but I can't find any.
16:25 < Not-9d73> [mc-autodocs] thinkofdeath pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±53] http://git.io/559iiw
16:25 < Not-9d73> [mc-autodocs] thinkofdeath cfba34b - 14w34a
16:30 < TkTech> ackpacket / Drainedsoul I believe sadimusi has a pure-python solution in mc4p
16:31 < TkTech> https://github.com/sadimusi/mc4p/blob/master/mc4p/encryption.py
16:31 < TkTech> Ah, uses pycrypto/OpenSSL
17:36 < Not-9d73> [mc-autodocs] thinkofdeath pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-2/±0] http://git.io/8UkACQ
17:36 < Not-9d73> [mc-autodocs] thinkofdeath 9aabb93 - Drop Blocks/Items.java as they make the diff too big
18:23 < bgale> I was trying in vain last night to use M2Crypto's AES
18:23 < bgale> PyCrypto's implementation seems to be slow
18:23 < bgale> pycryptopp doesn't support CFB
18:24 < bgale> next stop is cryptography.io
18:31 < MonsieurApple> Thinkofdeath: http://i.oc.tc/image/2i152z152O2L https://bugs.mojang.com/browse/MC-67961
18:41 < Thinkofdeath> MonsieurApple: \o/
18:41 < MonsieurApple> yeah haha
19:07 < TkTech> The JIRA mod deleted his own comment
19:11 < Thinkofdeath> :/
19:18 < dx> Thinkofdeath: so.. what did it say?
19:19 < Thinkofdeath> dx: "Invalid - this cannot happen in vanilla and modded versions are not supported" something like that
19:19 < dx> ah. meh.
19:19 < dx> the usual
19:20 < dx> reminder that Amaranth is a moderator, you can always harass him if the other moderators are being dumb
19:20 < Thinkofdeath> ha
19:25 <+Amaranth> MonsieurApple: So you're wanting it to kick you properly instead of accidentally with a bad cast?
19:25 <+Amaranth> Because I don't see how changing the compression settings on the fly is going to work, like Thinkofdeath said
19:25 <+Amaranth> Oh I guess he was quoting Drainedsoul
19:26 < Thinkofdeath> yeah i never noticed that was an issue until he pointed it out
19:26 < Thinkofdeath> I never got past the error to find out
19:26 < dx> "Threshold is the max size of a packet before its compressed" huh
19:27 < Thinkofdeath> dx: e.g. threshold of 256 means packets less than 256 bytes in size are uncompressed
19:27 < Thinkofdeath> the rest are compressed
19:28 < dx> are you really supposed to determine if it's compressed or not based on the size?
19:28 <+Amaranth> Wait, so what if it starts higher than 256 but compression brings it under that size?
19:28 <+Amaranth> Or do they have two length headers now?
19:28 < Thinkofdeath> two length headers
19:29 < dx> oh there you go.
19:29 < dx> "If Data Length is set to zero, then the packet is uncompressed; otherwise it is the size of the uncompressed packet"
19:29 < Thinkofdeath> MonsieurApple: http://i.imgur.com/SJyEi84.png 2000 players
19:29 <+Amaranth> This feels like it's a giant hack so they can let netty deal with how to safely do multithreaded compression of chunk packets
19:29 < Thinkofdeath> MonsieurApple: its better but not great
19:30 < Thinkofdeath> Amaranth: well chat too :P
19:30 < Thinkofdeath> dat json gets pretty big
19:31 < Thinkofdeath> I think it was partly in response to md_5's requests for compressed map packets
19:31 < dx> mediawiki really needs a damn 'blame' feature
19:31 < dx> bah, i'll just assume Thinkofdeath wrote that, since Thinkofdeath wrote 99% of the page anyway
19:32 < Thinkofdeath> o.O
19:32 < Thinkofdeath> whats wrong?
19:32 < dx> nothing is wrong, just wanted to know who added that line :P
19:32 < Thinkofdeath> oh
19:32 < Thinkofdeath> I think someone rewrote it for me at somepoint
19:33 < dx> well anyway, if what that line says is correct, the data length header works as a flag that says if it's compressed or not
19:33 < dx> sounds much more reasonable than checking the length
19:33 < Thinkofdeath> yep
19:33 < Thinkofdeath> well it checks the length anyway
19:33 < dx> you mean the implementation does?
19:33 < Thinkofdeath> if you compress a 128 byte packet with the threshold set to 256 bytes the client will disconnect
19:34 < Thinkofdeath> however if you don't compresss a 512 byte packet with the thresholds set to 256 bytes the client will accept it
19:34 <+Amaranth> Wait, I thought the server ruled here
19:34 < Thinkofdeath> Amaranth: both ways
19:34 < Thinkofdeath> they do the same check but the server sets the threshold
19:35 <+Amaranth> In any case it's weird that they don't just check if the wire length equals the packet length
19:35 < dx> wire length?
19:36 < dx> there's the 'packet length' header for what's transmitted over the wire, if that's what you meant, and 'data length' for the uncompressed packet size
19:37 <+Amaranth> Whatever they call them
19:37 <+Amaranth> If they always send both check if they're the same. If they're not, run through the inflater.
19:38 < dx> well data length == 0 means uncompressed (basically data length == packet length like you're saying)
19:38 < dx> so yes, the check seems pointless...
19:39 < dx> unless it's some kind of security measure i'm not seeing?
19:40 < dx> nah, kinda hard to DoS with packets that are *smaller* than the threshold
19:55 < TkTech> So I spent 3 days trying to figure out the crazy system instability on my i7. Solution was to disable all but one core :(
19:56 < TkTech> Guess one of the pins or lanes for the second core are fried. RMA time.
19:57 <+Ac-town> ouch
19:57 < dx> a friend of mine spent a few months with graphical glitches in apps unless he changed affinity of processes to avoid using one core
19:57 < TkTech> I had that happen to, when trying to render with blender.
19:58 < TkTech> I either had to set the affinity, or disable hyper threading
19:58 < dx> seems that intel is great at replacing faulty CPUs, though. getting a new one was a surprisingly painless process
19:58 < TkTech> Throwing the VCCIN on the CPU waaaay up helped
19:58 < TkTech> Yeah, they require a deposit for the cost of the unit but otherwise one is almost in the mail
19:59 < TkTech> Fairly painless process once they realize you've already done process-of-elimination
19:59 < TkTech> Otherwise the support goes down a long list of "Have you tried..."
19:59 <+Ac-town> i just got myself a new gpu and I think it might have a fault with the fans
19:59 < TkTech> Noisy fan or not working fan?
19:59 <+Ac-town> but I ordered a new psu since I don't think my older psu doesn't have enough amps
19:59 <+Ac-town> not working as expected
20:00 <+Ac-town> very little sound difference from 30% to 100%
20:00 <+Ac-town> and the rpm sensor reports 0
20:00 < TkTech> Hm, it sounds like the 3rd pin is off
20:00 <+Ac-town> so I was wondering if it just disables those parts of the gpu if there isn't enough power
20:00 < TkTech> Check to see if it's a 2-wire or 3-wire?
20:01 <+Ac-town> should be a 2 wire, 8 pin and 6 pin
20:01 < TkTech> Nah, the fan is by far the lowest energy usage, and the controller is super simple, doesn't really have the logic to do current demand
20:01 <+Ac-town> thats what i figured
20:01 < TkTech> You won't get RPMs with just a 2-wire
20:01 <+Ac-town> oh
20:01 < dx> should be 4 wires actually
20:01 <+Ac-town> the fan you mean
20:01 <+Ac-town> I think it was 3 or 4
20:01 <+Ac-town> I would expect it to report rpm
20:02 < TkTech> Whoops, yeah 4.
20:02 < TkTech> I haven't found a non-PWM GPU fan that can report RPMs
20:02 <+Ac-town> since it does get to 80C
20:02 < dx> http://www.pavouk.org/hw/fan/en_fan4wire.html
20:02 < TkTech> If it's supposed to be 4-wire, and it's not reading RPMs and you can't control the speed, something is wrong with the 4th wire
20:03 < dx> (actual connector shape and wire coloring varies)
20:03 < TkTech> Good guide
20:03 <+Ac-town> I put in a rma already but a new psu should get here tomorrow
20:04 < TkTech> What GPU?
20:04 <+Ac-town> 770
20:04 < TkTech> Ah, happen to be the ASUS one?
20:05 <+Ac-town> nope, pny
20:05 < dx> btw, in my experience, the fan is the shittiest part of any GPU. my 6870 had the stock fan fail one year after buying it
20:06 <+Ac-town> my 6950's fan kicked ass
20:06 < dx> right now i have the fan of the coolermaster hyper 212+ (that is supposed to be for my CPU) tied to the original heatsink, almost hanging from there lol
20:07 <+Ac-town> I once had a heatsync that had a fan in the middle of the block
20:07 <+Ac-town> apparently it died in the middle of summer
20:07 <+Ac-town> was always wondering why my game was weird, 100c cpu lol
20:07 < dx> ouch
20:07 < TkTech> http://pcpartpicker.com/part/asus-video-card-gtx770dc2oc2gd5
20:08 < TkTech> I have two of these (slightly different, 4GB and unlocked) 
20:08 < TkTech> Fans are ungodly noisy
20:08 <+Ac-town> thats why I expect mine to be broken
20:08 < TkTech> Want to liquid cool them but the only backplates that fit are from the Titan
20:08 <+Ac-town> you'd think at 100% i'd go nuts from the noise
20:08 < TkTech> And anything Titan is $$
20:08 < TkTech> Good headphones
20:09 < TkTech> Really, really loud headphones
21:00 < barneygale> `benchwood
21:01 < barneygale> oops wrong chan
21:06 < eddyb> TkTech: noise cancelling?
21:07 < TkTech> Can't stand noise cancelling headphones
21:07 < TkTech> Active ones at least, find large cups much better
22:07 < MonsieurApple> Amaranth: are you a jira mod / would be able to reopen this? https://bugs.mojang.com/browse/MC-61676
22:08 <+Amaranth> MonsieurApple: Dinnerbone marked it as fixed in a version you don't have access to
22:08 <+Amaranth> How can you say that's wrong?
22:09 < MonsieurApple> all bugs are marked as fixed for the future
22:09 < Thinkofdeath> "Fix Version/s: Minecraft 14w34a" thats out
22:09 < Thinkofdeath> and its marked as fixed on the blog post
22:10 <+Amaranth> In that case it's odd that he only changed it today but in any case no, I'm not going to overrule a Mojang employee on Mojang's bug tracker
22:10 <+Amaranth> If you don't think its fixed convince him
22:10 < MonsieurApple> what do you mean over rule? it's still broken, he just didn't realize it
22:11 <+Amaranth> You read minds now?
22:11 < dx> maybe it will be fixed in the next snapshot, not the one released today.
22:11 < dx> branches are a thing
22:11 < MonsieurApple> That's not what I'm saying, I'm saying he most likely didn't test 100 players and realize that there is still overflow/it's unreadable
22:11 < Thinkofdeath> dx: well it was changed this version 
22:11 < MonsieurApple> Did you see the screenshot?
22:12 < dx> also, nice screenshot. that's a lot of Thinkofdeath
22:12 < Thinkofdeath> :P
22:12 <+Amaranth> I'm telling you to talk to Dinnerbone
22:12 < dx> seems unhealthy to think so much about death
22:12 < Thinkofdeath> for (int i = 0; i < 2000; i ++) tab(getName() + i)
22:12 < MonsieurApple> i didn't want to bother him, but I guess he knows now
22:13 < Thinkofdeath> Another thing to note is that the icons are missing
22:13 < Thinkofdeath> it would be worse with
22:13 < Thinkofdeath> and the longest name on that list is 16 chars
22:14 < Thinkofdeath> they are missing because offline mode not a bug in-case I didn't make that clear :P
22:14 <+Amaranth> Even 60 is too much when you have scoreboard stuff
22:14 < dx> did you say offline mode? BANNED FROM THE PLANET
22:14 <+Amaranth> And iirc it was supposed to be a feature that the icons go away when the list gets too big
22:14 < Thinkofdeath> ah
22:15 <+Amaranth> Heck with the scoreboard prefix and suffix I think it even overflows 1
22:15 < Thinkofdeath> dx: result forgetting to switch after bungee work :P
22:15 < dx> Thinkofdeath: BANNED
22:15 <+Amaranth> The tab list sucks and is generally useless, welcome to the game
22:15 < Thinkofdeath> dx: :(
22:15 < dx> now i'm wondering if it's possible to mitm the auth servers with a fake root certificate
22:16 < dx> most of the time nobody bothers to check fingerprints
22:16 <+Amaranth> That's called certificate pinning when applied to TLS, right? No one does that though
22:17 <+Amaranth> Chrome did for a while iirc and I think they still have it hard coded to do so for Google websites
22:17 < Thinkofdeath> dx: well I was going to test in online mode
22:17 < Thinkofdeath> but the session server died
22:17 < dx> Thinkofdeath: CRIMINAL SCUM
22:18  * Thinkofdeath hammers the session server until he can get in
22:19 < Thinkofdeath> woo I just hit the protocol max packet size limit somehow
22:20 < dx> congratulations
22:20 < Thinkofdeath> oh right, 2000 tab list entries + skins
22:20 < Thinkofdeath> == large packet
22:21  * Thinkofdeath hopes any networks don't use bungee's global ping setting
22:21 <+Amaranth> haha
22:25 < flamin_scotsman> Chromium certificate pinning is still alive and kicking :P
22:27 < Thinkofdeath> Amaranth: well the hiding doesn't work either http://i.imgur.com/CdMWtdj.png
22:27 <+Amaranth> heh
22:27 < Thinkofdeath> side note: The icons didn't all load at the same time even though they are the same skin blob
22:27 < Thinkofdeath> so is it downloading each some separately?
22:28 < Thinkofdeath> MonsieurApple: Feel free to add this http://i.imgur.com/CdMWtdj.png :P
22:28 <+Amaranth> Probably making the thumbnails separately
22:28 < Thinkofdeath> hmm
22:28 < MonsieurApple> Thinkofdeath: will do, ty
22:29 <+Amaranth> Not like it's common enough to have multiple people with the same skin to worry about such a situation in terms of CPU/RAM savings
22:29 < Not-9d73> [Glowstone] SpaceManiac pushed 2 commits [+2/-1/±7] http://git.io/dpRHPQ
22:29 < Not-9d73> [Glowstone] SpaceManiac fc7dd4a - Updated ops list and whitelist to use UUIDs and json format (see #123).
22:29 < Not-9d73> [Glowstone] SpaceManiac c36f463 - Updated bans to use json - still name-based, no migration (see #123).
22:30 < Thinkofdeath> tbh I didn't expect the icon creation to be done async
22:44 < MazzaTR> Hello
23:20 <+md_5> Thinkofdeath but threads are faster!
23:21 < Thinkofdeath> :P
23:22 <+Amaranth> md_5: Any update on that multithreaded Spigot?
--- Day changed mar. août 19 2014
01:34 < Drainedsoul> Yay C++14!
02:57 < redstonehelper> if you want to display a custom message using the boss health bar, is there any advantage of usinga non-moving boss mob over using a mob spawner which is set to spawn one of those boss mobs, but never will because it's disabled?
10:08 < eddyb> Thinkofdeath: ugh
10:09 < eddyb> Thinkofdeath: I really hate what they did with tall plants
10:09 < eddyb> Thinkofdeath: they used a single block ID for the top part. which they will effectively "revert" in 1.9
10:14 < Thinkofdeath> eddyb: I end up copying the state from the bottom to the top in a process step because of that
10:15 < eddyb> well
10:15 < eddyb> Thinkofdeath: I have to create a rule for the top block
10:15 < Thinkofdeath> doors do the same (ish)
10:16 < eddyb> that says "when the block in the X direction is in the range [Y, Y+N), use models from range [Z, Z+N) instead"
10:16 < eddyb> I need to work on those rules
10:18 < eddyb> something like netherbrick fence will have a east/north/south/west boolean rule (so 16 values total), looking for solid or identical blocks
10:19 < eddyb> wooden fences and glass panes, however, have to look for solid blocks or blocks from the same group
10:19 < eddyb> also iron bars
10:19 < eddyb> wooden fences and gates form a group, all kinds and gass panes and iron bars form another group
10:20 < eddyb> I can make this pretty cheap by having each model be part of at most group. the solid thing is already encoded
18:18 < Not-9d73> [mc-autodocs] thinkofdeath pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/l1CzYw
18:18 < Not-9d73> [mc-autodocs] thinkofdeath d31d31c - 14w34c
20:30 <+Ac-town> TkTech: so i got the new psu
20:30 <+Ac-town> and rpms shows up now
20:30 <+Ac-town> fwiw I did reseat the gpu
20:30 <+Ac-town> and ensure that the fan connector for it was plugged in all the way
20:32 <+Ac-town> though it only goes up to 3150 rpm, sounds quiet
20:32 <+Ac-town> oh well, run it all 100% all the time I will
20:34 < TkTech> That is so very odd :|
20:34 < TkTech> Like that fan draws literally nothing
20:34 < TkTech> If your PSU was failing you should have had a host of other issues
20:35 < TkTech> And it's not a direct VIN, because it's controlled through the GPU, so if the GPU was starved other issues should have popped up :|
20:35 <+Ac-town> there was other issues with the gpu
20:35 <+Ac-town> like the driver crashing
20:35 <+Ac-town> my old amd card never did that but I expect this nvidia card eats more power
20:35 <+Ac-town> and the psu has to be a few years old at this point
20:36 <+Ac-town> no idea how many amps on the 12v rail
20:36 <+Ac-town> could look now since its out
20:36 <+Ac-town> 3 12v rails with 22 amps each
20:36 <+Ac-town> 22/22/25
20:36 < TkTech> Ah, makes sense, I had to split the plugs on mine to two different rails
20:36 < TkTech> Couldn't get enough current off one
20:37 <+Ac-town> i'll just reuse this psu so its not to waste
20:37 < TkTech> Power wise the AMD GPUs are almost always better I think, except for the dual cards like the Titan Z
20:37 <+Ac-town> i wanted to get a modular one anyways for my itx build when the next intel version comes out
20:37 <+Ac-town> along with ddr4
20:37 < TkTech> That's one of the reasons they were so popular for mining
20:37 < TkTech> I bought a modular one, horrible purchase ;|
20:38 < TkTech> I have a 900D, which is a *massive* case, no standard cables you get with the PSU will reach properly.
20:38 < TkTech> And the modular ones all have proprietary connections
20:39 < TkTech> Ended up just slicing them and crimping the ends back on
20:39 < TkTech> I keep seeing builds with really nice modular PSU that have threaded cables, but I can't find one anywhere
20:40 < TkTech> Just massive, rigid cables
20:40 <+Ac-town> they usually run their own cables
20:40 <+Ac-town> and some modders run casing over the wires
20:40 <+Ac-town> its nuts
20:41 <+Ac-town> I have a really old full size thermaltake case from 2007 rofl
20:41 <+Ac-town> really want a itx for lan parties and such
20:42 <+Ac-town> all it needs is a gpu, 2 ssds, cpu, and ram
20:42 < TkTech> Man I wish anyone around here still did lan parties ;-(
20:42 <+Ac-town> well if you ever want to come over here
20:42 <+Ac-town> we have a big one
20:42 <+Ac-town> 550 people, 3 times a year
20:43 <+Ac-town> http://www.pdxlan.net/home/
20:44 < TkTech> Ah Portland
20:44 < TkTech> Wait, aren't I there already for something...
20:44 < TkTech> Right! PyCon 2016
20:45 <+Ac-town> oh nice
20:46 < TkTech> Hopefully there's something that overlaps, company will send me out there.
20:46 < TkTech> Flight wouldn't be too bad, 7 hours with one stop
20:47 <+Ac-town> whats the dates?
20:47 <+Ac-town> if there isn't a lan and im still out here drinks/fun will happen
20:49 <+AndrewPH> TkTech: omg you'll be in portland wow
20:51 < TkTech> Ac-town: Half the company goes, and no one ever takes a camera for a reason :)
20:51 <+Ac-town> haha
20:51 < TkTech> Montreal was a little insane.
20:52 < TkTech> I'm just taking a look at my travel calendar, North America is too large.
20:52 <+Ac-town> cut out the east coast
20:52 <+Ac-town> well, cut out everything that isn't the west coast
20:52 < TkTech> I'll be in Houston, LA, and Minneapolis but none of those are much closer
20:53 < TkTech> Doesn't look like dates are set yet for PyCon
20:53 <+Ac-town> yeah, those places are far apart
20:53 < TkTech> Can't find anything anyway
20:53 <+Ac-town> plenty of time
20:53 < TkTech> Yeah, our US sales team is in Houston for whatever reason
20:53 < TkTech> Probably because of the cheap flights
20:54 < TkTech> sadimusi: Interested in pycon?
21:09 <+Amaranth> With the latest generation (if nvidia ever actually puts out more maxwell) it looks like they've got the power advantage
21:10 <+Amaranth> The 750 Ti is competitive with an AMD card I forget the model of but the AMD one uses twice the power
21:13 <+sadimusi> TkTech: I've never really heard of it, but even if I were interested it's still a bit too far away for my taste
--- Day changed mer. août 20 2014
03:53 < nickelpro> Can anyone give me a clear rundown on how the new skin system work with the Spawn Player packet? It's been months since I did MC dev and I'm a little mystified
09:03 < Thinkofdeath> nickelpro: the properties field is populated with the 'properties' field returned from the sessionserver's hasJoined request
09:04 < Thinkofdeath> one of the properties (the only currently) is the texture one, the value field contains the url to the skin and the cape (if they have one)
09:04 < Thinkofdeath> (plus some other info)
13:55 < cindy_k> is d out yet?
14:00 < rom1504> cindy_k: yeah http://dlang.org/
14:01 < cindy_k> lol
17:26 < nickelpro> Thinkofdeath: thanks
17:40 < eddyb> Thinkofdeath: what offset is between Data.Player.Pos (in level.dat) and the camera position?
17:43 < redstonehelper> player position is saved by the feet and I believe the camera (1st person) is in the middle of the head, on the height of the eye line which you can see if you enable visual mob hitboxes
17:44 < redstonehelper> not sure how much that helps, but eddyb ^
17:46 < eddyb> redstonehelper: thanks. see my comment here http://www.reddit.com/r/rust_gamedev/comments/2e35sf/hematite_vs_minecraft/
17:49 < eddyb> I really wish the game saved orientation
17:49 < redstonehelper> does it not?
17:49 < eddyb> does it?
17:49 < shoghicp> eddyb: offset is 1.62
17:49 < shoghicp> total height is 1.8
17:49 < eddyb> shoghicp: well, vertically
17:49 < eddyb> but it seems there's a horizontal offset between 0 and 0.2
17:49 < redstonehelper> eddyb: if you save a game and re-enter it, you are looking the same direction as last time
17:50 < eddyb> redstonehelper: I thought you are always looking north
17:50 < eddyb> I could've sworn I tested this
17:50 < redstonehelper> I swear it saves rotation, lemme test
17:51 < shoghicp> it saves rotation, at least it is in the NBT data
17:51 < eddyb> yaw but not pitch?
17:51  * eddyb hopes he used those words right
17:53 < redstonehelper> eddyb: grvm said something about camera stuff here, might help you find the location in the code http://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/2dvx9c/minecraft_snapshot_14w34a/cjub70y?context=3
17:54 < Casperrrr> I have a question where to start creating an new server engine? :P
17:55 < eddyb> great, I have to go dumpster diving again in a jar
18:38 < Drainedsoul> "grvm"?
18:38 < Drainedsoul> is it the middle ages again?
18:40 < dx> it's just closer to black metal, while "grüm" is more heavy/power metal
18:41 < dx> and Ｇｒｕｍ is j-rock
18:44 < Drainedsoul> my IRC client really doesn't like UTF-8
18:44 < Drainedsoul> and I can't figure it out
18:45 < Drainedsoul> which is ironic because I love UTF-8 and hate Latin-1
18:46 < dx> :(
18:46 < Drainedsoul> what was that
18:47 < dx> what was what
18:47 < Drainedsoul> [09:44] CTCP/VERSION request from dx :
18:47 < dx> i asked your client what client it is and what version
18:47 < dx> and i got HydraIRC v0.3.165 (12/December/2008) by Dominic Clifton aka Hydra - #HydraIRC on EFNet
18:48 < Drainedsoul> yeah there's a window in the bottom right that says that now @_@  did it tell you?
18:48 < Drainedsoul> yeah that's right
18:48 < Drainedsoul> apparently it's written with "modern tools", i.e. VS 7
18:48 < Drainedsoul> -_-
18:48 < Drainedsoul> seems to work well enough, except the UTF-8 issue
22:38 < eddyb> FOUND THE LITTLE FUCKER
22:38 < eddyb> shoghicp, redstonehelper: 6903015 @0 glTranslatef(x = 0, y = 0, z = -0.1)
22:39 < redstonehelper> so what's the offset?
22:39 < eddyb> 0.1 on z
22:39 < redstonehelper> ahh
22:39 < redstonehelper> sneaky
22:39 < redstonehelper> put it on the minecraft wiki too, can't hurt to have it there
22:40 < eddyb> I'm not even sure I know how to wiki anymore
22:45 <+SpaceManiac> Did you end up finding the rotation tags?
22:46 < eddyb> yupp, Rotation: FloatList([35.250214, -10.049996])
22:46 < eddyb> writing code to use those and the 0.1 offset right now
23:50 < nickelpro> eddyb: there's a horizontal offset? Why in the world would there be a horizontal offset?
23:51 < eddyb> nickelpro: idk, you see with the back of your skull or something like that :)
23:51 < eddyb> nickelpro: ask notch :P
--- Day changed jeu. août 21 2014
00:16 < redstonehelper> shit, on z? I thought it was y
00:16 < redstonehelper> damnit notch
06:52 < eddyb> I don't get it
06:53 < eddyb> the tallgrass model is exactly one block tall
06:53 < eddyb> but in game, it looks like 0.75
06:53 < eddyb> did they really hardcode this shit?
06:55 < eddyb> also, what? my screenshots don't appear to be saved
06:56 < eddyb> I think the launcher broke horribly and I didn't realize
07:51 < eddyb> redstonehelper: confirmed: in-game bounding box is shorter than the tall grass by a couple pixels
08:16 < Grum_> eddyb: fun O.o
08:16 < Grum_> single or double-height one?
08:16 < eddyb> single
08:17 < eddyb> Grum_: the game is just messing with me
08:17 < Grum> lets see
08:17 < Grum> and yes, boundingboxes are hardcoded for obvious raisins
08:17 < eddyb> I now know that scaling by SQRT2 for "rescale" does the right thing
08:18 < eddyb> I'm looking at the tallgrass class to figure out the random offset algorithm, but I'm lost :P
08:18 < Grum> it has a method that returns a constant
08:18 < Grum> erm
08:18 < Grum> an enum even
08:18 < Grum> that says what sort of offset it has
08:19 < eddyb> Grum: the offset makes the tallgrass appears ±2px or so, which made fixing "rescale" a PITA. nothing looked right until I made a wall of tallgrass and just compared *that* :)
08:19 < Grum> we have to move it down a bit
08:20 < Grum> it has a: 'getOffsetType()' returning XYZ
08:20 < eddyb> Grum: oh, thanks... not sure why I didn't look for that when it's the obvious choice for my implementation, too :P
08:20 < Grum> because we usually do not have obvious implementations
08:20 < Grum> >.>
08:21 < eddyb> yupp, found it :D
08:21 < Grum> most newer code does >.>
08:21 < eddyb> NONE, XZ and XYZ
08:21 < Grum> yup
08:21 < Grum> we have XYZ for things plantable on farmland
08:21 < Grum> for obvious raisins
08:22 < Grum> and XZ for the things that can stay on the same level
08:22 < eddyb> atp in 14w32d (yupp, I know, I should update. kinda waiting for 1.8 though :P)
08:24 < eddyb> there's two methods in... the tesselator (judging by debug messages :))
08:24 < Grum> yeah with or without AO
08:25 < eddyb> I don't even know how the pipeline goes in vanilla
08:25 < Grum> massively different from before
08:25 < eddyb> I just copy faces from the model into the VBO
08:25 < Grum> we do the same
08:26 < eddyb> oh, so this is what tesselation is?
08:26 < Grum> the 'only thing' the tesselation does right now (for world things)
08:26 < Grum> is copying buffers for faces over
08:27 < Grum> and then 'mending those buffers' to apply the lighting/coloring
08:28 < Grum> all the data to be copied over gets baked during starting the game
08:28 < eddyb> ok. so here's something random that surprised me. I was playing with apitrace last night (with which I found that 0.1 horizontal camera offset I was suspecting)
08:28 < Grum> yeah back 0.1 O.o
08:28 < Grum> was a surprise for me
08:29 < eddyb> Grum: surprise, when?
08:29 < Grum> oh i needed to do some math from the camera origin 
08:29 < eddyb> hehe
08:29 < eddyb> fun bugs ahoy
08:29 < Grum> and that didn't work out as nicely when you have the camera offset by y+1.62 and z -0.1 >.>
08:29 < eddyb> anyways, I noticed that frames with the esc (pause) screen had 2k more calls
08:29 < eddyb> 2k calls for an overlay with 5 buttons?
08:30 < Grum> i think fonts are being drawn really inefficiently
08:30  * eddyb remembers there is text on those buttons and feels silly
08:30 < Grum> i think each char is a drawcall
08:30 < eddyb> Grum: yupp it just hit me
08:30 < Grum> we had a nice bug in older versions
08:30 < Grum> where every quad in an item was a drawcall >.>
08:30 < Grum> use f3 and look at a tab with enchanted items in a creative inventory
08:30 < Grum> BOOM FPS DEAD ;D
08:30 < Grum> (in the version you run now that is)
08:31 < eddyb> so, in-game there's 5k, with the esc screen 7k
08:31 < eddyb> the menu screen is 10k
08:31 < Grum> look at a page of potions =)
08:31 < Grum> that should be 100-200k :p
08:32 < eddyb> the only explanation I can come up with is that you're drawing a sphere made out of many triangles, for the, what's it called dammit... the spinny background thingie
08:32 < Grum> yeah
08:32 < eddyb> the panorama, that's it
08:33 < Grum> the drawcalls for the panoramic thingie is wtf
08:33 < eddyb> Grum: fixit
08:33 < eddyb> (after you fix boats because everyone is complaining about those)
08:33 < Grum> i dont care
08:33 < Grum> fps is limited to 30 anyhow
08:33 < Grum> or 20 orso in menus
08:34 < eddyb> it makes my apitrace replays very slow :(
08:36 < Grum> tough luck ;)
08:36 < eddyb> yeah, no, it's not a big deal, I got what I was looking for
08:37 < eddyb> is it just me, or is the no AO logic more complicated?
08:38 < eddyb> aah, no, I'm just confusing methods which all have the same name
08:49 < eddyb> Grum: thanks a lot, btw, this will come a long way :D. look how bad it was yesterday http://www.reddit.com/r/rust_gamedev/comments/2e35sf/hematite_vs_minecraft/
08:50 < eddyb> (there's also an x-post on /r/rust which is not a link to the other post - *sigh* this wasn't even meant for reddit, just people getting excited on IRC and posting my half-assed crap)
08:50 < Grum> it confused, what is hematite?
08:52 < eddyb> my Rust clone
08:52 < Grum> ah
08:52 < eddyb> the project started out as "hey, someone made a tiny minecraft-like thing in python, I wonder how big it would end up in Rust"
08:52 < Grum> states make it much easier to render not? ;D
08:53 < eddyb> but I couldn't keep myself from using all that blockstate goodness
08:53 < eddyb> Grum: they're the only reason I can render anything at all :)
08:53 < Grum> the only 'downside' is the 'fillVirtualProperties' method 
08:53 < eddyb> that brewing stand, man http://i.imgur.com/9EVzoCU.png
08:54 < Grum> fillVirtualBlockStateProperties is a magical method that 'fudges' the blockstate :/
08:54 < eddyb> Grum: based on adjacent blocks?
08:55 < Grum> yeah for now
08:55 < Grum> the idea is to bake this in 1.9
08:55 < eddyb> I tried to came up with good rules for it
08:56 < eddyb> there's "when the block in the X direction is in the range [Y, Y+N), use models from range [Z, Z+N) instead"
08:56 < Grum> there are no good rules
08:56 < Grum> just 'code' to describe it :/
08:56 < eddyb> Grum: actually, there's a maximally flexible way to describe it without code
08:57 < eddyb> it's just nastier to hardcode
08:57 < Grum> https://gist.github.com/grum/47bd747c16a1fecfa31c <-- for the 'fence'
08:57 < Grum> this will just be hardcoded later
08:57 < eddyb> the rule I mentioned would make the double plants work (which, dammit, who thought using only one block type for the top would be a good idea? 1.9 blockstates will revert that :P)
08:57 < Grum> the block tha gets placed will check around itself and pick the 'right shape'
08:57 < Grum> then it will prod the blocks around it to update their shape 'if needed'
08:58 < eddyb> there's the 4 cardinal directions rule, which gives you a range of 16 models (well, 15 without the original)
08:59 < Grum> there are actually 6 directions
08:59 < eddyb> are there blocks using 6 directions?
08:59 < eddyb> but it needs a "does connect" function. I figured I could have groups
08:59 < Grum> yes, redstone
08:59 < eddyb> Grum: dammit, that one :P
09:00 < Grum> well it uses more directions actually
09:00 < eddyb> (actually, those are 5, not 6)
09:00 < Grum> it uses 8 directions :p
09:00 < Grum> each arm is a tri-state
09:00 < eddyb> oh, yeah, sorry
09:00 < Grum> vines use 5
09:00 < eddyb> vines do something?
09:00 < Grum> grow
09:00 < eddyb> apart from that, they don't encode render state in blockstate?
09:01 < Grum> not sure
09:01 < Grum> but it doesn't matter
09:01 < Grum> static mapping is not a possibility
09:01 < Grum> or rather, it is, but it's a pointless exersize
09:01 < eddyb> where was I? the connection function. for wooden fences, it would be "adjacent solid block or block from group 'wooden fences and fence gates'"
09:02 < Grum> yes, but there should not be code describing this
09:02 < eddyb> for netherbrick fences would be "adjacent solid block or same block"
09:02 < Grum> well it needs code :p
09:02 < eddyb> Grum: you mean, the handful of possible rules?
09:02 < eddyb> not sure if the "group" thing is a great idea
09:03 < eddyb> glass panes and iron bars would also form another group
09:03 < eddyb> Grum: I mentioned a maximally flexible thing earier: decision trees
09:03 < eddyb> stairs are probably the worst ones
09:03 < Grum> what stuff connects to is actually not a 'data driven thing'
09:03 < eddyb> Grum: it has to become :P
09:04 < Grum> no
09:04 < Grum> *really* not
09:04  * eddyb puts Grum in a turing tarpit
09:04 < Grum> no, think about it
09:04 < Grum> connectivity changes shape, shape changes boundingbox, boundingbox HAS TO BE server defined
09:04 < eddyb> and?
09:05 < eddyb> you have to load blockstate mappings from the world anyways
09:05 < eddyb> unless you mean that you want to keep hardcoded bounding boxes
09:05 < Grum> not sure what that has to do with it :p
09:06 < Grum> we have to keep 'hardcoded' boxes, rather, they are 'defined' by the server which makes it fine for them to be code
09:06 < eddyb> why can't you map model variants to bounding boxes? or something like that
09:06 < jast> how about you just do all checks on the client side. should work fine with any client conforming to RFC 3514.
09:06 < eddyb> Grum: i.e. use the results of the connectivity to determine bounding box
09:07 < eddyb> but connectivity would be specified in data
09:07 < Grum> eddyb: boundingboxes are 1:1 mappign with blockstates
09:07 < eddyb> ugh
09:08 < Grum> each state has its own boundingbox
09:08 < eddyb> Grum: wouldn't the full block state be a result of data-specified connectivity tests :P?
09:08 < Grum> you are starting to mix up terms, enough so I cannot actually reply sanely
09:08 < Grum> data being what?
09:09 < eddyb> JSON, what else :)
09:09 < Grum> i think its a bad idea
09:09 < Grum> first off, right now the server has no idea about blockmodels or godknowswhat
09:09 < Grum> i dont think it would have to ever know
09:09 < Grum> but it does need to have information on the boundingbox
09:10 < eddyb> but what about blockstate .json files?
09:10 < Grum> so sure, in theory we could make that json
09:10 < eddyb> hmm
09:10 < Grum> blockstate is just the mapping on the client
09:10 < eddyb> I'm guessing those are just for the visual models
09:10 < Grum> its the stringified version of what the server knows 
09:10 < Grum> yes
09:10 < Grum>         "east=false,north=false,south=true,west=false": { "model": "oak_fence_n", "y": 180, "uvlock": true },
09:11 < Grum> for the fence
09:11 < eddyb> so with custom per-world mappings, the server will have to accept any unknown block names as.... what?
09:12 < Grum> the key is just the stringified blockstate
09:12 < eddyb> or maybe you don't want that level of customization (just yet)
09:12 < Grum> how do you mean: 'the server will accept' ?
09:14 < Grum> and don't start with the 'level of customization'-bs
09:14 < eddyb> (sorry. need to be more specific)
09:14 < Grum> you do
09:15 < Grum> because saying that i do not want something because you either underexplained or simply describe something that cannot work is silly
09:15 < eddyb> what if I add a custom blockstate to the mappings in a world, and place those blocks around the map in an external tool, and I add the blockstate to the resourcepack?
09:15 < Grum> 'custom blockstate' ?
09:15 < Grum> that doesn't exist
09:15 < eddyb> foobar
09:15 < Grum> a block has states defined on its properties in the state -- its a cartesian product of all the things
09:15 < Grum> you cannot just 'decide' to add one
09:16 < eddyb> is code going to (always) be required?
09:16 < Grum> yes
09:16 < Grum> ALWAYS
09:16 < eddyb> ALWAYS?
09:16 < Grum> you could in theory add a block *on the server* through some data-driven mechanic
09:16 < Grum> ALWAYS
09:16 < Grum> but obviously that block would be similar to bedrock
09:16 < Grum> no properties at all
09:17 < eddyb> obviously I wasn't considering certain things when I started fiddling with this project :P
09:18 < Grum> in theory a block without behavior can be completely defined by pure data
09:18 < Grum> ideally we'll go there
09:18 < Grum> but only the basic things that apply ot all things would be handled that way
09:19 < Grum> it cannot have any states -- perhaps simple rotation on the y axis at max
09:19 < Grum> collision mesh, light-behavior ..hmmz that's about it?
09:22 < eddyb> Grum: yeah, sorry for wasting your time :)
09:22 < Grum> its ok but it's not so simple :p
09:28 < Grum> I think eventually blocks will become json definitions for their basic values
09:28 < Grum> but there still is going to be some form of defined loading around
10:01 <+SpaceManiac> http://forums.bukkit.org/threads/bukkit-its-time-to-say-goodbye.305106/
10:03 < dx> rip
10:09 < TkTech> SpaceManiac: Well, can't really say that was unexpected.
10:09 < Kavukamari> anyone build anything neat with command blocks lately?
10:09 < TkTech> But I am postively stunned at the responses. Complete English? No whining?
10:09 < TkTech> Is this really a forum?
10:10 < dx> TkTech: i thought the moderators were removing all the idiots, but no, a comment about spigot is still there
10:13 < dx> (a decent comment about spigot, that is)
10:13 <+SpaceManiac> Not sure what I'm going to do with Glowstone now, it always did depend on the Bukkit API pretty heavily.
10:14 < dx> SpaceManiac: isn't the api side of it legally clean?
10:14 <+SpaceManiac> Legally clean, yes. But now nobody is maintaining it.
10:17 < Dinnerbone> So go maintain it or fork it
10:17 < Dinnerbone> They're not erasing bukkit from the face of the earth.
10:17 < Thinkofdeath> The beauty of open source
10:18 < dx> """open source"""
10:18 < dx> if you ignore the fact that craftbukkit is the biggest part of it, and it's, well... something.