01:04 <+sadimusi> the idea is that you still can have multiple clients for the same account
01:04 < Dinnerbone> Can't get it easily from java, changable, not easily unique, very likely to have conflicts on the same person on multiple computers
01:05 < Dinnerbone> ie at home I'm Dinnerbone and at work I'm Dinnerbone so if clientToken==hash("Dinnerbone") I'm not gonna be able to log in on both
01:05 <+md_5>    so
01:05 <+md_5> make it a business model
01:05 <+md_5> license per computer, not per user!
01:05  * Dinnerbone slaps md_5
01:06 < Dinnerbone> Also I just realized the wiki article on yggdrasil doesn't cover refresh :(
01:06 <+sadimusi> did somebody finally write one?
01:06 < Dinnerbone> I hope that doesn't cause custom implementations to skip it
01:06  * sadimusi was too lazy
01:08 < PlayerW_OName> wait, client token in returned JSON is exactly same as in sended JSON?
01:08 < dx> >There were no results matching the query. Create the page "Yggdrasil" on this wiki
01:08 <+sadimusi> dx: http://wiki.vg/Session
01:08 <+sadimusi> it's pretty horrible
01:08 < dx> sadimusi: i suspected so
01:09 < Dinnerbone> PlayerW_OName, yes. It's something your client generates.
01:09 < Dinnerbone> If you don't send one, one will be generated on Yggdrasil and sent back for you to keep
01:09 < Dinnerbone> So you don't *have* to generate your own for the first use
01:09 < Dinnerbone> But you should
01:10 < PlayerW_OName> ohh, that's what i was looking for, i'll save that in java properties :)
01:13 < PlayerW_OName> is that right:
01:13 < PlayerW_OName> String jsonDecoded = "{\"agent\":{\"name\":\"Minecraft\",\"version\":1},\"username\":\"" + username + "\",\"password\":\"" 				+ password + "\",\"clientToken\":\"" + index.config.getProperty("clientToken") + "\"}"
01:14 < PlayerW_OName> many backslashes :P
01:15 < dav1d> where does Yggdrasil come from?
01:15 < dav1d> Java has no escape-string literals thingy
01:15 < dx> dav1d: norse mythology? or what are you asking exactly
01:15 < dav1d> like python ' or """
01:16 < dav1d> or D ``
01:16 < dav1d> `"I am a string"`
01:16 < SinZ> PlayerW_OName: Kinda, if you don't have a client token yet, you dont need to send it (but remember to save what you get sent back)
01:16 < dav1d> '"I am a string"'
01:16 < dav1d> """"I am a string""""
01:16 < dx> ``I am a superior string''
01:16 <+pdelvo> @"Jeah \o/"
01:17 < dav1d> java really sucks :>
01:17 < dx> hmm it doesn't have heredocs either
01:17 < SpaceManiac> dav1d: python ' and " are the same, you might be thinking r""?
01:17 < dav1d> PlayerW_OName: why don't you use a json library?
01:17 < dav1d> SpaceManiac: nope
01:17 < SinZ> @"this "is" a decent string"
01:17 < dav1d> SpaceManiac: but I expressed it with the wrong words
01:17 < dx> SpaceManiac: that's the point, having them as the same thing to you don't have to add backslashes to "
01:17 < SpaceManiac> ah right
01:17 < PlayerW_OName> look, it's json decoded, no encoded
01:17 < dav1d> dx: r"" is something else again
01:17 < dx> dav1d: yes
01:17 < dav1d> which is also pretty useful
01:17 < PlayerW_OName> i'll use google gson
01:18 < SinZ> PlayerW_OName: might work out for you, thats what mojang uses
01:18 <+md_5> <dav1d> java really sucks :>
01:18 < dx> dav1d: you still need to add backslashes to "
01:18 < dav1d> especially for regexes (well the python re module is smart enough to detect these escape-mistakes)
01:18 <+md_5> could write a java compiler to accept that
01:18 < dav1d> md_5: that obviously was a joke
01:18 < dx> write a compiler? ohgodwhat
01:19 < dav1d> saying a language sucks because it has no fancy, additional string literals thingy is just stuipid
01:19 < dav1d> dx: I guess to jvm bytecode?
01:19 < dav1d> then decompile it
01:19 < dav1d> recompile with javac
01:19 < dav1d> :>
01:19 < dx> !pbunny generate theme=java
01:19 < dx> ^ fund it
01:19 < dav1d> pls no
01:20 < dx> :D
01:20 < PlayerW_OName> so ill need to do if(index.config.getProperty("clientToken") == "") index.config.setProperty("clientToken", tokenFromMojang)
01:20 < dx> bots aren't allowed here anyway
02:05 < PlayerW_OName> i don't understand it,anyone know how would the string look for gson.toJson(String)?
02:06 <+md_5>  "string"
02:06 < PlayerW_OName> yep
02:06 < PlayerW_OName> forgot ""
02:08 < Ampzilla> I'm really confused about this whole "Updating 1.6" section. Am I supposed to first get the json file(s) and then use them to determine where the actual game files are on the server?
02:09 < PlayerW_OName> not sure, but probably yes
02:11 < dx> Ampzilla: writing a launcher?
02:11 < dx> also lol forgetting quotes. off to a good start huh
02:12 < Ampzilla> yeah dx
02:12 < dav1d> anyone knows the bounding box of a player?
02:12 < dx> dav1d: i think it's in the curse minecraft wiki
02:13 < dx> sec, finding it
02:13 < Ampzilla> I've got the authentication for login all figured out with the authserver, but I don't understand how you are supposed to get all of the game resources to create a new minecraft folder
02:13 < dav1d> dx: thanks!
02:13 < dav1d> dx: http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Entity
02:13 < dav1d> didn't look there..
02:14 < dx> dav1d: oh awesome, i was looking in players
02:14 < dx> *player
02:14 < PlayerW_OName> Ampzilla: if you figured out logging, how do you encode json?
02:15 < Ampzilla> for sending the json I'm just using a string that's formatted like a json file
02:15 < PlayerW_OName> lul
02:15 < PlayerW_OName> so why am i messing with gson xD
02:15 < Ampzilla> the authserver's response I'm deserializing into a class and then getting the client token and session token
02:15 < dx> dav1d: so wait wait wait, does this mean brala is going to stop being a noclip-only viewer?
02:15 < dav1d> omg
02:15 < dav1d> dx: yes
02:15 < dx> dav1d: whoa.
02:16 < Ampzilla> what language are you using?
02:16 < dav1d> dx: there is brala.physics.physics, brala.physics.survival and brala.physics.creative
02:16 < dav1d> dx: :>
02:16 < PlayerW_OName> java
02:16 < Ampzilla> c#
02:16 < dav1d> now I need a smart way of finding valid points for a player :>
02:17 < dav1d> shouldn't be that hard, but I want a beautiful design
02:17 < PlayerW_OName> hmm, im forward to learn c# that summer
02:18 < Ampzilla> I really like .net =D
02:20 < PlayerW_OName> first i vas using c++, but it had low amount of methods in standard libs (like java's string.split(regex))
02:20 < PlayerW_OName> was*
02:21 < Ampzilla> okay tell me if this makes sense: first get the versions.json file to determine all of the currently available mc versions, then depending on which version you want use the "id" from the versions.json file to determine the url of the version you want (ex. versions/1.6.2) and then get the json file from that new url, in this case 1.6.2.json. Once you have the 1.6.2 json file you can MAYBE figure 
02:21 < Ampzilla> out the files available within that directory?
02:25 < dav1d> there are more files than 1.6.2.jar?
02:25 < Ampzilla> tons more
02:25 < dav1d> current profile and session: https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/brala/minecraft/profiles.d
02:26 < dav1d> finding all minecraft jars: https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/brala/minecraft/folder.d
02:26 < Ampzilla> I need to download everything, basically a fresh copy of the .minecraft directory. So all the libraries and game assests
02:26 < dav1d> woot, I marked the last function @property
02:26 < dav1d> Ampzilla: my minecraft 1.6 launcheer doesn't do that?
02:27 < dav1d> nope it doesn't
02:28 < Ampzilla> my launcher is inspired by multimc, so it can have multiple fresh instances of the game in their own directories
02:28 < Ampzilla> when a user creates a new minecrat instance, it's supposed to create a fresh directory in a specified location and act like the official launcher does if you delete everything in .minecraft
02:29 < dav1d> some genious in here uses git to switch between versions :>
02:31 < dx> heh using git for a launcher
02:31 < dx> not sure how big that dep would be
02:32 <+pdelvo> can you merge in a mod? :D
02:33 < Ampzilla> my launcher will eventually be able to do that...it's a tall task =X
02:33 < dx> pdelvo: you can unzip the jars to folders as long as they have the same name, so probably you can.
02:33 < Ampzilla> that's how you have to unload the native dlls if you want to launch minecraft the same way the official launcher does
02:34 < dx> Ampzilla: does this code do what you want to do? https://github.com/SinZ163/SinZ-MC-Launcher/tree/master/SinZ%20MC%20Launcher/Download
02:35 < dav1d> this all sucks
02:35 < dav1d> in python I would so use a set
02:35 < dav1d> but meh
02:36 < Ampzilla> dx: kind of, it shows how to download the current version jar file
02:36 < Ampzilla> dx: doesn't help explain where all the directories/files outside of the "versions" folder comes from
02:36 < Ampzilla> I need to dig around though
02:36 < dx> Ampzilla: https://github.com/SinZ163/SinZ-MC-Launcher/blob/master/SinZ%20MC%20Launcher/Mojang/VersionList.cs ?
02:37 < Ampzilla> sorry, yes, I'm blind
02:37 < Ampzilla> <3
02:37 <+pdelvo> Oh noes. Application.DoEvents(). :(
02:37 < dav1d> pdelvo: is that bad?
02:37 < Ampzilla> sounds bad =X
02:37 <+pdelvo> jeah it is
02:37 < dx> is that something to continue the main loop from any part of the code?
02:37 < dav1d> sounds like a gui toolkits yield
02:37 < Ampzilla> I think I'll either use the async download file method or use a .net background worker
02:38 < SinZ> dx: that is my outdated code
02:38 < dx> dav1d: yeah, i'm thinking the same
02:38 < dx> SinZ: whoops.
02:38 < Ampzilla> Hey SinZ
02:38 < dav1d> now I need to transform client coordinates into block coordinates
02:38 < dav1d> 2:38am -_-
02:38 < dav1d> floor?
02:38 < dx> 21:38am -_-
02:38 < dav1d> I've already done that somewhere in my code
02:38 < dav1d> ...
02:39 <+pdelvo> 2:38 am. I have to wake up at 6:00 am :D
02:39 < dav1d> pdelvo: don't go to bed, problem solved
02:40 <+pdelvo> great idea :)
02:40 < Ampzilla> the weekend went by so fast
02:41 < dx> ...why did i think today is monday
02:41 <+pdelvo> its is monday for me :(
02:41 < dx> probably the same reason i wrote "am" in the message up there
02:41 < Ampzilla> dx: this is exactly what I need
02:41 < dx> Ampzilla: \o/
02:43 < dav1d> ok
02:43 < dav1d> floor seems to be right
02:43 < dx> SinZ: can't find license text anywhere :/. feels uncomfortable to suggest someone to use your code for inspiration if that isn't clear
02:43 < Ampzilla> agreed
02:44 < SinZ> dx: I could never chose a license
02:44 < dx> SinZ: hm? why not?
02:45 < dav1d> maaaaan
02:45 < dav1d> fcorner.x.floor.to!int,
02:45 < SinZ> too many to chose from, wil prob be apache license or something
02:45 < dav1d> is this cool, or not?
02:46 < dx> dav1d: hold on, gotta find the rosetta stone for these runes you wrote
02:46 < dav1d> :>
02:46 < dav1d> instead of: to!int(floor(fcorner.x))
02:47 <+pdelvo> reminds me to extension method in c#
02:49 < dav1d> http://vp.dav1d.de/2o4 ... I think I should slap myself for hardcoding this
02:50 < dav1d> might do later
02:50 <+pdelvo> gn8
02:51 < dav1d> gn8 pdelvo!
03:03 < LaxWasHere> Hola!
03:04 < dx> dammit lax is here
03:04 < mbaxter> No dx
03:04 < LaxWasHere> I was never here.
03:04 < mbaxter> He was here. This is merely his memory.
03:04 < dx> okay
03:04 < dx> mbaxter: oh that makes sense
03:04 < mbaxter> it's but an echo
03:04 < mbaxter> of laxes past
03:04 < LaxWasHere> Educate yourself young man. http://youtu.be/BTOODPf-iuc
03:05 < LaxWasHere> Time to build my Freenode empire
03:05 < dx> i think i saw this video
03:11 < dav1d> dammit
03:11 < dav1d> I am nearly 2m
03:40 < PlayerW_OName> how do i send that json to auth server? Will OutputStreamWriter do the job?
03:41 < Ampzilla> streamwriter works
03:41 < Ampzilla> especially if your json is just a string =D
03:41 < PlayerW_OName> lul, returns HTTP response code 400
03:41 < Ampzilla> could be a formatting issue with your json?
03:42 < PlayerW_OName> no, json parser worked well with it
03:42 < Ampzilla> username/password issue?
03:42 < PlayerW_OName> wait, i'll check that again
03:44 < PlayerW_OName> would username or password return bad request?
03:44 < Ampzilla> no idea to be honest
03:44 < PlayerW_OName> rather bad login-something
03:44 < Ampzilla> what uri?
03:45 < Ampzilla> and you are posting for sure
03:45 < Ampzilla> ?
03:45 < PlayerW_OName> wait, ill put whole code on pastebin
03:45 < Ampzilla> k
03:45 < PlayerW_OName> yes, post
03:45 < Ampzilla> remove username/pw if it's hardcoded =D
03:45 < Ampzilla> unless you have an actual file
03:45 < Ampzilla> unlike me lol
03:46 < PlayerW_OName> http://pastebin.com/PiEzbR62
03:47 < PlayerW_OName> easy, no hardcoding(excluding json xD)
03:47 < TkTech> MediaWiki's database is so convoluted...
03:52 < Ampzilla> the only thing I'm not sure about is the charset
03:53 < Ampzilla> I'm not even sure it matters, but it's really the only difference I see
03:55 < Ampzilla> http://pastebin.com/iVejkB4G
03:56 < Not-003> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 4 commits to master [+2/-0/±10] http://git.io/zGSHRQ
03:56 < Not-003> [BraLa] Dav1dde 2fcdd7d - fix pseudoqueue
03:56 < Not-003> [BraLa] Dav1dde a4e2c3e - use queue.get_all
03:56 < Not-003> [BraLa] Dav1dde 65a86dc - move camera from feet to head
03:56 < Not-003> [BraLa] Dav1dde aab8df4 - implement very basic physics, well bounds checking
03:57 < PlayerW_OName> changed from text/json; charset=utf-8 to application/json and still same HTTP_400
03:57 < PlayerW_OName> ;(
04:00 <+AndrewPH> TkTech: hah you think mediawiki's bad
04:01 <+AndrewPH> i have some horror stories that I'm not at liberty to share
04:02 < Ampzilla> Even if the json string had an error I think it would still work, I just broke mine and it still returned data
04:04 < Ampzilla> PlayerW_OName: Is it possible you are requesting the response to quickly after writing the json to the output stream?
04:05 < PlayerW_OName> no, after clicking login, it hangs program for about 5 seconds
04:06 < Ampzilla> that hang could be from resolving the url though, no?
04:06 < PlayerW_OName> hmm
04:06 < PlayerW_OName> wait
04:07 < Ampzilla> what about move the input.read outside of the try block? I think you would have to declare it above the try, initialize it in the try and then read after it requests all of the data
04:11 < PlayerW_OName> no, it reads and saves to byte array
04:13 < PlayerW_OName> btw input.read needs try,catch :P
04:14 < Ampzilla> oh okay sorry
04:15 < Ampzilla> is it a 400 or a 40x?
04:15 < PlayerW_OName> 400
04:15 < PlayerW_OName> bad request
04:24 < Ampzilla> Do you need to do something with the "Authentication" property of the HttpURLConnection?
04:24 < Ampzilla> just randomly guessing at this point
04:27 < PlayerW_OName> nevermin, i did it
04:27 < Ampzilla> what was the problem?
04:27 < PlayerW_OName> idk, i used that: http://www.xyzws.com/Javafaq/how-to-use-httpurlconnection-post-data-to-web-server/139
04:27 < PlayerW_OName> :P
04:28 < PlayerW_OName> return excutePost("https://authserver.mojang.com/authenticate", jsonEncoded); :P
04:28 < PlayerW_OName> oh, and changed application/x-www-form-urlencoded to application/json
04:29 < Ampzilla> content length and the content type are different than what you had
04:29 < Ampzilla> I bet you that was the problem
04:29 < Ampzilla> especially the content length
04:30 < PlayerW_OName> i didn;t had length :P
04:30 < Ampzilla> yeah that's what I mean
04:31 < Ampzilla> who knows, I didn't have that either actually so nevermind, good job getting it to work
04:32 < Ampzilla> i'll tackle this asset download stuff tomorrow, see ya
12:58 < PlayerW_OName> hello
12:58 <+pdelvo> hi
13:01 < PlayerW_OName> ok, when i send empty clientToken in JSON, shouldn't mojang reply me correct token?
14:13 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/z8oaUw
14:13 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath fd7055a - Fix hay block placement
14:58 <+sadimusi> I'm rewriting all the yggdrasil stuff on the session page, does it look ok so far? http://wiki.vg/Session#Authentication
15:05 <+sadimusi> and I noticed we're missing the {{citation needed}} template :D
15:07 < Jckf> sadimusi: Great! I can finally update my tools' login classes \o/
15:08 < Jckf> Has anyone here started poking around Cube World, by the way?
15:08 <+pdelvo> jeah I started but I dont havent done much
15:10 < Jckf> Ditto. I started on a proof of concept man in the middle proxy, but so far I can't even log in =D
15:10 < Jckf> I also snagged the domain cwdevs.org
15:10 < Jckf> The same way I originally snagged mcdevs.org and pissed TkTech off *blush*
15:11 <+pdelvo> nice :D
15:12 < Jckf> Technical information about CW seems to be pretty spread out right now
15:12 < Jckf> so the idea was a wiki like wiki.vg
15:12 <+sadimusi> why like it?
15:12 <+sadimusi> the idea was to do it _on_ wiki.vg
15:12 < Jckf> Perhaps with support from you people =)
15:12 < Jckf> Orly?
15:12 <+pdelvo> tktech wanted to put a cubeworld section on wiki.vg
15:13 < Jckf> Oh cool
15:13  * Jckf hasn't been paying attention in class
15:14 < Jckf> Well then
15:14 < Jckf> At least we have a useless domain =)
15:15 < TkTech> The cubeworld guys haven't been horribly responsive, was trying to get permission to use some media assets like the logo.
15:15 < TkTech> They've kinda dropped off the face of the internet.
15:17 < TkTech> sadimusi: Looks good, IMO the page should be split into the old and the new, and Snoop on its own page.
15:17 < TkTech> sadimusi: I'd also list some of the known exception types.
15:17 <+sadimusi> good idea
15:17 <+sadimusi> I also wanted to split up the page
15:17 <+sadimusi> the updating part doesn't really belong there either
15:18 < TkTech> (Some of the Exceptions seem useful, like UserMigratedException (https://gist.github.com/TkTech/1ac813864258a885d383))
15:20 <+sadimusi> I keep getting "Bad login" on joinserver.jsp, maybe the session id wasn't documented correctly by itsme
15:22 < TkTech> sadimusi: It looks okay from my recollection. Try doing it as a POST not a GET.
15:24 <+sadimusi> TkTech: POST gives 504 (gateway timeout)
15:27 <+sadimusi> m( just forgot the "token:"
15:31 < TkTech> sadimusi: It works as a GET? I thought that was deprecated eons ago.
15:31 <+sadimusi> nope, works fine
16:08 <+sadimusi> did the old login system have a name too?
16:10 < TkTech> sadimusi: Not that I ever knew of
16:18 < TkTech> Wonder if there's any way to get top contributor for each month on the wiki, send them the local value of a case of beer.
16:20 < TkTech> Looks like a bunch of extensions do user "scoring", but focused on all-time vs. monthly.
16:24 <+sadimusi> I'm not sure if a automated system is the best idea
16:27 < iBotPeaches> yeah whoever moves the pre-release into protocol, gets major contribution :o
16:31 <+sadimusi> at this rate the spambots make the recent changes page almost unusable :/
16:31 <+sadimusi> is there a better way to hide them than namespace=0?
16:32 < Thinkofdeath> sadimusi: http://wiki.vg/index.php?namespace=2&invert=1&title=Special%3ARecentChanges
16:33 <+sadimusi> oh, there was even a checkmark for it o.O
16:33 <+sadimusi> thanks
16:33 < Thinkofdeath> np
16:33 < iBotPeaches> sweet, can that be made the default of that link
16:33 <+sadimusi> I guess I can live without seeing changes to user pages anyway
16:35 <+sadimusi> confirming users might take a few more clicks
16:36 <+sadimusi> TkTech: thoughts?
16:37 <+sadimusi> I'll just change it, if somebody complains we can still revert it
16:38 < TkTech> sadimusi: What's up?
16:39 <+sadimusi> since Special:Resent Changes is useless we want to exclude the user namespace
16:40 < TkTech> Wait, what? What are you changing?
16:40 <+sadimusi> I haven't done anything yet
16:41 <+sadimusi> the idea is to change the link in the sidebar to something useful
16:41 < TkTech> Ah
16:41 < TkTech> The script *is* banning them. They apparently have an infinite number of IPs.
16:42 <+sadimusi> the markup of the sidebar is weird as hell, I'm not even sure it accepts absolute links without a domain
16:42 < TkTech> set(['50.115.174.119', '46.246.61.139', '91.121.28.133', '91.237.249.248', '188.165.85.106', '124.207.18.105', '142.4.213.113', '80.79.122.8', '188.165.121.232', '188.165.252.20', '80.79.122.3', '85.192.166.187', '151.237.190.164', '8.18.120.77', '192.95.12.192', '78.46.161.237', '92.228.176.39', '188.116.20.84', '46.118.123.81', '173.236.32.221', '5.135.30.145', '175.144.178.198', '188.165.247.184', '94.23.176.111', 'BrendaDonnelly', '46.105.247.245',
16:42 < TkTech>  '50.115.163.232', '188.165.121.227', '91.121.4.183', '151.237.190.173', '74.221.220.70', '87.98.137.11', '91.121.87.138', '91.237.249.101', '108.178.5.238', '46.164.19.62', '173.232.7.49', '38.105.21.195', '37.113.153.153', '108.163.228.14', '108.163.228.12', '142.4.212.227', '172.246.115.66', '74.118.200.106', '108.62.71.157', '173.237.182.76', '46.105.187.254', '50.115.168.140', '216.152.252.236', '69.175.94.14', '125.44.15.244', '74.221.217.218', '66.248.20
16:42 < TkTech> 2.179', '91.237.249.168', '199.204.45.205', '50.2.194.183', '110.77.234.26', '199.119.227.234', '142.91.79.6', '5.135.167.147', '5.135.53.242', '199.119.225.74', 'HaydenEEAC', '94.23.234.194', '173.234.196.195', '62.219.3.11', '27.154.11.160', '5.135.43.153', '37.59.56.147', '142.4.213.30', '198.175.126.45', '110.85.112.23', '108.178.53.174', '198.50.28.130', '216.152.251.37', '5.135.113.155', '206.214.82.164', '188.165.192.211', '142.91.79.198', '187.188.134.4
16:42 < TkTech> 5', '184.22.115.74', 'Bradly60Hxfdijn', '173.234.226.27', '142.4.213.27', '142.4.213.26', '142.4.213.25', '130.185.156.69', '198.143.143.43', '96.127.151.204', '66.248.194.30', '5.135.47.87', 'RitaDailyzukzy', '37.59.176.223', '69.162.119.3', '184.105.235.141'])
16:42 < TkTech> Ah shit, meant to paste the gist URL.
16:46 < iBotPeaches> is the ip ban, script level or server level?
16:49 < TkTech> It's a mediawiki ban, not iptables or anything.
16:49 < TkTech> https://gist.github.com/TkTech/6000549
16:49 < TkTech> ^- Just a horrible, horrible quick script.
16:51 <+sadimusi> of course the RecentChanges template doesn't recognize the invert option -.-
16:51 <+sadimusi> guess the only solution is an ugly absolute link to index.php in the sidebar
16:54 <+sadimusi> hm, what if we treat new users as bots? they should be hidden automatically
16:54 <+sadimusi> that would probably be the least hacky solution I can come up with
16:56 <+sadimusi> TkTech: didn't you want to keep beta.wiki.vg to play around with? 
16:57 <+sadimusi> @off-topic: best use of U+202E I've seen so far https://twitter.com/mikko/status/356788263719170048/photo/1
17:18 < TkTech> sadimusi: I did, haven't gotten around to it yet.
17:18 < TkTech> sadimusi: If you just want to play with a template there's the sandbox on the wiki proper.
17:18 < TkTech> sadimusi: My idea for beta.wiki.vg was testing backups/restores, new extensions, core configuration changes, etc...
17:18 <+sadimusi> I just installed my own instance to play around
17:19 <+sadimusi> making users bots by default would definitely be a core configuration we should test first
17:24 <+sadimusi> TkTech: my idea seems to be working fine
17:24 < TkTech> sadimusi: Which one is that?
17:24 < TkTech> (I'm at work, sorry for the delays)
17:25 <+sadimusi> no problem
17:25 <+sadimusi> $wgGroupPermissions['user']['bot'] = true;
17:25 <+sadimusi> $wgRevokePermissions['Confirmed']['bot'] = true;
17:26 < TkTech> No way, mon.
17:26 <+sadimusi> I created a user, confirmed him and he made an edit. this is the result: http://ceilingcat.ch/wiki/index.php?title=Special:RecentChanges
17:26 < TkTech> The bot group is special, you do not want to assign new users to it.
17:26 < TkTech> Or any real users.
17:27 <+sadimusi> why not?
17:27 <+sadimusi> it's not a group, it's a permission
17:27 <+sadimusi> and confirmed users won't have it
17:27 <+sadimusi> and most unconfirmed users actually _are_ bots
17:28 < TkTech> It just seems like hiding them by default is a bad idea.
17:31 <+sadimusi> why is that? you can still just click on "show bots"
17:32 < TkTech> "You can hide the dirt under the rug, but you can still see it if you lift up a corner."...
17:32 < TkTech> Just think there should be a better solution.
17:32 < TkTech> How does wikipedia prevent signup spam?
17:33 <+sadimusi> they don't
17:34 <+sadimusi> you won't ever see more than a minute of edits on RecentChanges anyway
17:34 <+sadimusi> *5 minutes
17:34 <+sadimusi> hm no, on all namespaces it's way less than a minute
17:36 <+sadimusi> I still don't quite follow your logic. we want to hide account creation from recent changes, and the best solution is bad because it hides account creation from recent changes?
17:37 < TkTech> We don't want to hide account creation from recent changes.
17:38 < TkTech> We want to slow the bot spam to a trickle so we don't even care.
17:38 <+sadimusi> the ideal solution would be no bots, yes
17:38 <+sadimusi> but that ain't happaning
18:08 < TkTech> sadimusi: Lets see how this does.\
18:16 <+sadimusi> TkTech: your gist could use a client token, it always invalidates all my access tokens ;)
18:16 < TkTech> Whoops
18:29 < TkTech> Jckf: Feel free to do CubeWorlds on the wiki, I was thinking in the CW: namespace.
18:30 <+sadimusi> TkTech: looking at my line counts, an automated system for that case of beer might be a good idea after all :)
18:30 < TkTech> Jckf: I've spoken to some of the people doing their own RE and they're open to content being copied (with attribution)
18:30 < Jckf> TkTech: Yeah, I was just about to say that I don't have any original content yet
18:30 < TkTech> sadimusi: 'twas a silly idea.
18:31 < Jckf> TkTech: But I am hoping to get some stuff done this week. Just have my hands full with work and Minecraft duties ;p
18:31 < TkTech> Jckf: http://wiki.project-kube.de/index.php?title=Main_Page would be a good place to start.
18:31 < TkTech> Jckf: I convinced him to re-licence under the CC share-alike.
18:32 < Jckf> That's where I've gotten most of my protocol stuff from ;)
18:32 < Jckf> That, and CuWo's source on GitHub
18:34 < Jckf> TkTech: I can cname cwdevs.org to mcdevs.org if you wish to put something there
18:34 < TkTech> Jckf: mcdevs.org will shortly just be a namespace on wiki.vg.
18:35 < TkTech> Consolidate and simplify.
18:35 < Jckf> You're dropping the domain?
18:35 < TkTech> What? No. It'll redirect to http://wiki.vg/mcdevs:about or what not
18:35 < Jckf> Right, good =)
18:36 < Jckf> So I'll cname it. Handle the 0 visitors as you please
18:38 < Jckf> Done
18:40 < Jckf> Hm. Someone (not me) just dropped pizza on my laptop *shrugs*
18:44 < SimSonic> Good time of a day to all, I found that my account on wiki.vg was deleted and I should reregister and ask here for editing rights.
18:45 <+pdelvo> whats your name on wiki.vg?
18:48 < SimSonic> SimSonic
18:48 <+pdelvo> confirmed
18:48 <+pdelvo> you have write access now
18:49 < SimSonic> Thanks
19:12 < TkTech> sadimusi: That's better I think, no spam in 60 minutes.
20:01 < TkTech> sadimusi: http://wiki.vg/MCDevs/rules#Suggestions
20:01 < TkTech> sadimusi: You can do horrible, horrible things with page css overrides.
20:18 < iBotPeaches> lots o whitespace, looks good
21:27 < TkTech> Off-topic: Anyone in Toronto and looking for a job? Assuming you've got some public work I can take a look at I have a few fellows looking for referrals.
22:57 < superjoe> TkTech, no remote work, eh?
23:13 < TkTech> superjoe: I'm not sure, actually. You'd have to make a few trips at least for in-person interviews.
23:14 < TkTech> sadimusi: I've made some changes again. I've ditched confirmations (backed up just in case) and switched to a question on registration plus a handful of DNSBLs.
23:14 < TkTech> sadimusi: Someone *please* give me better questions and answers…right now the only one is "Snow White and The Seven ______" => "Dwarfs" because I happened to be looking at a movie listing.
23:15 <+sadimusi> I was just looking at it and thought it was pretty horrible :D
23:17 <+sadimusi> TkTech: if one single question keeps off the spam, you could make it pretty easy (but minecraft related)
23:17 < iBotPeaches> a zombie in minecraft is called (3 letters) ___ 
23:17 < TkTech> It's a list of question (which can be dynamic) and answer (which can also be dynamic).
23:17 < iBotPeaches> boom bots would never know that, unless hardcoded
23:18 < TkTech> The problem is the kid in Taiwan getting $1 per 1000 questions.
23:18 < TkTech> They'll need to be switched up every so often.
23:18 < iBotPeaches> derivative of 10x^2 + 10x + 5
23:20 < dexter0> Probably shouldn't be MC related if you want to expand the wiki to cover CW.
23:20 < TkTech> ^
23:20 <+sadimusi> I kinda liked the previous approach, but I guess this can work too
23:22 <+sadimusi> if there's a Taiwanese kid, shouldn't we just create a single question and change it regularly?
23:23 < TkTech> Good point.
23:23 < TkTech> Could still use a better default question.
23:23 <+sadimusi> should it be CS related?
23:24 < TkTech> In a perfect world, it would be a context-sensitive question but one that's simple enough for youths to get (no complex questions about math or CS)
23:24 <+sadimusi> I should be working on my bachelor thesis, so I have all the motivation in the world to work on the wiki :)
23:24 < TkTech> Haha.
23:26 <+sadimusi> if it doesn't matter if the taiwanese kid gets it it can be very simple
23:26 <+sadimusi> like "how many dimensions are there at least in our observable universe?"
23:26 <+sadimusi> (maybe not simple enough, 3 and 4 might both be acceptable answers)
23:28 < iBotPeaches> What is the 4th dimension?, perfect questions
23:28 <+sadimusi> time of course
23:29  * sadimusi didn't completely read your statement
23:29 < iBotPeaches> a little kid might not know that
23:29 <+sadimusi> might be a little bit to hard, but do we really want little kids?
23:30 < iBotPeaches> isn't it a developer oriented wiki anyway
23:30 < iBotPeaches> a tough question wouldn't harm anything
23:30 <+sadimusi> best question: "which is the best programming language?"
23:30 <+sadimusi> only acceptable answer: none
23:31 < dexter0> lol
23:31 <+sadimusi> (some result in permanent ban)
23:31 < iBotPeaches> "Spell jeb's last name?"
23:31 < iBotPeaches> answer: can't
23:31 <+sadimusi> what is he called?
23:31 < iBotPeaches> jenn*
23:31 < iBotPeaches> jen*****
23:32 <+sadimusi> Jens Bergensten doesn't look so hard to spell
23:32 <+sadimusi> or is google wrong?
23:32 < dexter0> that's mc specific though
23:33 <+sadimusi> "what character was used to add colors to chat messages in the good old times?"
23:33 < mbaxter> Steve. The answer is Steve.
23:33 <+sadimusi> the answer herobrine should always be accepted
23:34 <+sadimusi> "what was removed from minecraft in update xxxx?"
23:35 < iBotPeaches> "what is block id 63?"
23:36 <+sadimusi> at least make it 46
23:36 < dexter0> ha
23:36 <+sadimusi> what about what is is 17 in hexadecimal?
23:37 <+sadimusi> that should be trivial for anyone visiting the wiki
23:38 < iBotPeaches> multi question, what is 17 in hex, oct, dec, binary
23:39 <+sadimusi> why do programmers confuse christmas and halloween?
23:39 <+sadimusi> because oct 31 = dec 25
23:39 < iBotPeaches> LOL
23:41 <+sadimusi> iBotPeaches: how does the SS update go btw?
23:42 < iBotPeaches> haven't had a crash on the newest copy, so seems pretty good. Someone said buhkit chats aren't filtered or something correctly
23:42 < mappum> why do java developers wear glasses?
23:42 < iBotPeaches> but I've never ran it, so I'll have to set that up and test this weekend
23:42 < mappum> because they don't C#
23:42 <+sadimusi> mappum: :D
23:43 <+pdelvo> just make everybody upload a pic with their personal "minecraft development face"
23:43 <+sadimusi> A programmers wife sends him to the store and says "get some bread, and while you're there pick up some eggs" The programmer never came back.
23:44 <+sadimusi> (via http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/1h1cyg/whats_the_most_intellectual_joke_you_know)
23:44 < mappum> lol
23:44 < mappum> I have a joke about UDP, but you probably wouldn't get it
23:44 < iBotPeaches> I wish I had the xkcd one, it was about dropping tables
23:44 <+sadimusi> little billy tables?
23:45 <+sadimusi> http://xkcd.com/327/ ?
23:45 < mappum> you named your son "Bob '; DROP TABLE students"?
23:45 <+sadimusi> *bobby
23:45 < iBotPeaches> yes love it :)
23:46 <+sadimusi> look at how horrible xkcd looked back then :)
23:46 < mappum> what do you mean? it's the same
23:47 <+sadimusi> not really
23:47 < iBotPeaches> harder to read, less dark, weird text
23:47 < iBotPeaches> it got better over the years :)
23:48 < mappum> true
23:48 <+sadimusi> one of my favorites is still http://xkcd.com/349/
23:49 <+sadimusi> and I still get myself into this situation sometimes
23:50  * sadimusi 's znc is running on the combination of two macbooks which fell victim to linux installers
23:52 <+sadimusi> back on topic: how about "I put on my robe and ______ hat"
23:54 <+sadimusi> or how about "I accidentally ____ 93MB of .rar files"
--- Day changed mar. juil. 16 2013
01:06 < barneygale> sadimusi: love early xkcd, but I'm sure it's only for nostalgia value. One of the few things I don't feel has gone downhill heh
01:06 < barneygale> randall munroe's a cool guy. he helped me buy a server once!
02:26 < alasi> hi guys
02:28 <+pdelvo> hi
02:28 < alasi> I'm here because I'm curious about multiplayer packets
02:31 <+sadimusi> alasi: have a look at wiki.vg
02:31 < alasi> yeah, i'm there now
02:31 < alasi> Just noticed the channel written on it so I thought I'd come by :P
02:31 <+sadimusi> you might have already noticed; the protocol is pretty horrible ;)
02:32 < alasi> Yeah :P
02:32 < alasi> I'm no java developer
02:32 < alasi> I just wanna make a client in nodejs
02:32 < alasi> An invisible one
02:33 <+sadimusi> invisible in what sense?
02:33 < alasi> As in, not a visible "steve". The purpose is to use the server's player/world data for a greater cause
02:33 < alasi> With the server owners consent of course
02:33 < alasi> It's like a robotic drone
02:34 <+sadimusi> and what would it do?
02:36 < alasi> Well I would like start with using some attibutes (time, weather)
02:36 < alasi> and they could broadcast to my node servers as a widget a server owner could embed on their site
02:37 < alasi> But I might go up to a widget that renders a view of the server
02:37 < alasi> Maybe an auto-camera that pans around what players are doing
02:37 <+sadimusi> good luck with that :D
02:38 < alasi> yeah :P
02:38 < alasi> There are some existing things people have written, like a bot that IS visible and can do pathfinding and whatnot
02:38 <+sadimusi> to me it sounds like all of this would work much better as a bukkit plugin than a client
02:38 < alasi> sadimusi: That was my original thought
02:38 <+sadimusi> mineflayer?
02:39 < alasi> Yeah, that changed my perspective :D
02:39 < alasi> You familiar with that stuff?
02:39 <+sadimusi> of course
02:39 < alasi> With node and everything?
02:39 <+sadimusi> I have written some things in node, but I wouldn't consider myself a node programmer
02:40 < alasi> Yeah, me either xD
02:40 < alasi> on npm, I found this https://npmjs.org/package/minecraft-protocol
02:41 <+sadimusi> I think that's written by superjoe
02:41 < alasi> but this doesnt sound promising: "gets kicked when no credentials supplied in online mode (4678ms)"
02:41 <+sadimusi> he's here as well
02:41 < alasi> yeah, he online?
02:41 < alasi> I dont want to ping any of these guys >
02:41 <+sadimusi> looks like he's afk
02:41 < alasi> oh ok
02:42 < alasi> Do you know when he's usually active? Ever?
02:42 <+sadimusi> not sure when he's usually around, but he's here often
02:42 < alasi> hm ok!
02:42 <+sadimusi> still, I don't think a client is the right approach
02:42 < alasi> yeah
02:43 < alasi> I'm thinking if the bukkit plugin used websockets to the node server
02:43 < alasi> But again, I hate java
02:43 <+sadimusi> there are also some bukkit plugins providing a json api for a webinterface
02:44 < alasi> thats cool
02:44 < alasi> I'm looking to use a protocol thats more realtime than Dynmap used
02:44 < alasi> I think it was ajax or something *shudder*
02:46 <+sadimusi> I'm sure there's a way to use websockets in java
02:46 < alasi> I'm guessing bukkit has a higher level of support for accessing server attributes than parsing packets
02:46 <+sadimusi> but I wouldn't make the detour over nodejs
02:46 < alasi> yeah
02:46 < alasi> sadimusi: What do you mean?
02:46 < alasi> Java does have a sockets api built in I believe
02:46 < alasi> *an import of course
02:47 <+sadimusi> (2:43:20 AM) alasi: I'm thinking if the bukkit plugin used websockets to the node server
02:47 <+sadimusi> just use websockets to the browser
02:47 <+sadimusi> no need for nodejs
02:47 < alasi> Yeah
02:47 < alasi> Because my original idea was to make it a PaaS
02:47 < alasi> so it would have to be routed through nodejs
02:47 <+sadimusi> and obviously the server has access to pretty much every detail of the game, unlike a client
02:47 < alasi> Yes
02:48 <+sadimusi> I don't really see the benefit of paas here
02:50 < alasi> sadimusi: For hosting the widget, maybe as a standalone site, I wanted ease of use for the server owners (installing a plugin and using a web based control panel), but I DID want a little moola..
02:50 < alasi> I would open source a lot of the components
02:50 < alasi> The hosting/control panels/integration would be the part I would close up
02:51 <+sadimusi> well, afaik websockets are not subjected to the same origin policy, so you can easily host the widget on your server but use websockets from the original server
02:52 < alasi> wat
02:52 < alasi> The websockets are broadcast to the PaaS
02:52 < alasi> was my plan
02:52 <+sadimusi> but why would you do that?
02:53 < alasi> For most server owners, installing nodejs etc is a pain
02:53 <+sadimusi> connecting them directly to the browsers makes much more sense
02:53 < alasi> Oh thats what you mean
02:53 <+sadimusi> as you said sourself, java is perfectly capable of providing websockets
02:53 < alasi> hm
02:55 < alasi> idk why, but I dont like that must transparency. If I put it thru the node server, just even by re echoing it, I could make the Paas control what the browser sees, making less data to be sent to the browser
02:55 < alasi> The paas would be the camera bot, which only exposes the data to the browser that it sees
02:56 < alasi> Instead of using much more bandwidth/packets
02:57 < alasi> Instead of making the bukkit plugin the camera bot either, you route it thru the node server so a server owner could declare the path of the camera straight from a web interface
02:59 <+sadimusi> sure you can do that, it'll just be a bit slower
02:59 <+sadimusi> and use much more of your bandwidth
03:00 < alasi> like, paas's bandwidth?
03:01 <+sadimusi> yes
03:01 < alasi> Because the concern is the browser's bandwidth, isnt that a bigger concern?
03:01 <+sadimusi> that would be exactly the same
03:01 < alasi> paas lag > browser lag
03:01 < alasi> but again, the paas is restricting the amount data sent to browser
03:02 < alasi> It's just sending the rendering path of the camera drone
03:02 < alasi> to the browser
03:02 < alasi> ^these are my plans
03:06 <+sadimusi> so the browser will render it?
03:07 < alasi> Render as in the 3d sense, yes
03:07 < alasi> threejs/voxeljs
03:07 < alasi> But since it's attribute based, not say video stream based, it uses less bandwidth
03:08 < alasi> And more customizable
03:08 <+sadimusi> and won't work at all
03:08 < alasi> why
03:08 < alasi> The concept of it, or the logic?
03:09 <+sadimusi> both are fine, but browsers just aren't ready to render minecraft
03:09 <+sadimusi> someone once tried to make a webGL based client
03:09 <+sadimusi> didn't work out very well
03:09 < alasi> sadimusi: Check this out mate http://voxeljs.com/
03:09 < alasi> Remember its just block/player data, no world data needed
03:09 < alasi> inventory, particles? no
03:10 < alasi> Mineflayer itself achieved this: https://github.com/vogonistic/mineflayer-voxel
03:11 < alasi> Look at this !! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjDmAfcVulQ
03:11 <+sadimusi> those are much better than the first efforts, but they're still nowhere near the vanilla client
03:12 < alasi> So maybe the shaders wont be accurate (or existent), and maybe the movement wont look as real as minecraft itself, but you're still streaming the server's awesome taj mahal!
03:14 < alasi> or 1 trillionth survival games match featuring capta1nsparklez (im not talking any chances pinging someone here)
03:15 < alasi> Theyre nowhere near the vanilla client, well thats what I'm trying to do myself
03:18 <+sadimusi> what about mobile devices?
03:18 <+sadimusi> or just outdated PCs?
03:18 < alasi> sadimusi: Thats not part of the target group, then
03:18 < alasi> If they dont support webgl, they dont support minecraft
03:21 < alasi> so uh yeah
03:26 < alasi> sadimusi: have you written any bukkit plugins before?
03:26 <+sadimusi> no
03:26 < alasi> oh ok
03:27 <+sadimusi> this channel is more about doing things from scratch
03:27 < alasi> ah
03:27 <+sadimusi> but there are some bukkit devs in here
03:28 < alasi> I'll be back here tomorrow, maybe sup3rj0e will be online. Thanks for your help!
03:29 <+sadimusi> no problem
03:29 <+sadimusi> see you
03:29 < alasi> cya
03:29 < alasi> *all
03:29 <+clonejo> A web based MC client could be done with asm.js
03:30 <+sadimusi> clonejo: why not just compile vanilla minecraft with jasmin and run it with asm.js :P
03:31 <+sadimusi> no wait, jasmin was something else
03:32 <+sadimusi> right, it's called GCJ
03:32 <+clonejo> I'm not sure if gcj is mature enough
03:32 <+sadimusi> I'm pretty sure it isn't
03:32 <+sadimusi> I've never heard of anyone using it
03:33 <+sadimusi> last update seems to be in 2009
04:17 < Ampzilla> sadimusi: thanks for updating the wiki regarding game files/login
08:35 <+AndrewPH> clonejo: a web-based MC client could be done with java
11:01 < ffmdr> my bouncer sucks, it left the channel after few days of inactivity :/
11:09 < ffmdr> md_5: if you responded to my question few days ago could you quote? my bouncer failed 
11:44 <+md_5> uh
11:44 <+md_5> idk what I said
11:44 <+md_5> java -jar SpecialSource.jar --help    is good ffmdr 
11:45 < ffmdr> I looked at the help -.-
11:46 < ffmdr> the problem is it will not remap field and method calls if I don't put the mod in jar with rest of minecraft
11:53 <+md_5> yeah
11:53 <+md_5> use the java -cp arg
11:53 <+md_5> and then use --live
11:54 <+md_5> it needs the rest of MC
11:54 <+md_5> so it can do inheirtance
11:55 <+clonejo> dav1d: Brala's version of glwtf doesn't compile for me: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/6007376
12:08 < ffmdr> md_5: that's awesome, thanks
14:33 <+sadimusi> Dinnerbone: are those access tokens supposed to be valid forever?
14:33 <+sadimusi> mine has now been valid for about 12 hours...
14:40 <+md_5> sadimusi yes they are
14:41 < SinZ> but you still need to refresh them iirc
14:41 <+sadimusi> no you don't, that's exactly my point
14:41 <+sadimusi> so all you have to do is prevent a client from refreshing it and you can use the stolen access token forever
14:41 <+sadimusi> without the user even noticing it
14:42 <+sadimusi> you only need to refresh when changing profiles, but that's not implemented yet...
14:43 <+sadimusi> maybe I shouldn't complain, it makes it much easier for third-party tools to use the launcher_profiles.json
14:50 < Dinnerbone> sadimusi: it will expire
14:50 < Dinnerbone> I don't know how long, maybe a week or so
14:51 <+sadimusi> that kinda defeats the whole point of the refreshing
14:51 < Dinnerbone> Not really?
14:51 < Dinnerbone> Without refreshing your token will expire after a period of time
14:52 < Dinnerbone> Refresh to extend it another [x period of time]
14:52 < Dinnerbone> Lets you "Remember me" for this time
14:52 <+sadimusi> that's fine, imo the period of time is just way too long
14:52 < Dinnerbone> If you log in at home and then go on a holiday for a weekend and come back, you kinda expect it to have remembered you
14:53 <+sadimusi> I should make myself clearer
14:53 <+sadimusi> you should still be able to refresh after a week, but not to join servers after 5 minutes
14:54 < Dinnerbone> How does that benefit us against malicious use of the token?
14:54 <+sadimusi> the attacker has to refresh it, so yours becomes invalid
14:55 < Dinnerbone> However the launcher always refreshes to make sure it's valid another week, so it would make theirs invalid if they didn't refresh it themselves
14:55 <+sadimusi> they would refresh it, but you'd notice it
14:55 < Dinnerbone> Okay let's draw this out
14:55 < Dinnerbone> Victim vs Attacker
14:56 < Dinnerbone> Victim using vanilla launcher, attacker stole the users tokens and is using a 3rd party tool to use them
14:56 < Dinnerbone> Scenario 1:
14:56 < Dinnerbone> Attacker refreshes token and plays minecraft.
14:57 < Dinnerbone> Victim opens the launcher. Launcher calls refresh to make sure he's still logged in, finds out he's not (token has already been used)
14:57 < Dinnerbone> Victim logs back in, attacker is logged out.
14:57 < Dinnerbone> Scenario 2:
14:57 < Dinnerbone> Attacker uses the token outright, doesn't refresh it.
14:57 < Dinnerbone> Victim opens launcher. Launcher calls refresh to make sure he's still logged in, finds out he is. New token is generated and old one is expired
14:57 < Dinnerbone> Attacker is logged out.
14:58 <+sadimusi> my issue with scenario 2 is that you never notice the attack
14:59 <+sadimusi> there should also be a scenario 3:
14:59 <+sadimusi> Attacker refreshes token and plays minecraft.
14:59 <+sadimusi> attacker wipes client token from victim's launcher_profiles.json
14:59 <+sadimusi> Victim opens the launcher. Launcher calls refresh to make sure he's still logged in, finds out he's not (token has already been used)
14:59 <+sadimusi> Victim logs back in, attacker is _not_ logged out.
15:00 < Dinnerbone> Nothing we can do about that aside from what we're already working on and I've told you about before; a list of your currently logged in locations from inside the launcher
15:01 <+sadimusi> yes, that will definitely help
15:01 < Dinnerbone> (With a button to log them out)
15:02 <+sadimusi> there should also be a way to do it on mojang.com, otherwise an attacker might just run a script to keep me out
15:02 < Dinnerbone> It will require elevated authentication; your username and password
15:02 < Dinnerbone> The attacked won't have this (if they do, website only won't help)
15:02 < Dinnerbone> s/attacked/attacker/
15:02 <+sadimusi> ok
15:05 < SimSonic> "location" means IP address?
15:06 < Dinnerbone> Yes
15:06 < Dinnerbone> And time
15:07 < Dinnerbone> Possibly geoip, I don't know
15:09 <+sadimusi> Dinnerbone: you convinced me (for now), the only thing you should probably still do is deleting the lastlogin file
15:09 <+sadimusi> maybe not now, but when nobody plays 1.5.x anymore
15:09 < Dinnerbone> Yes it will be done soon
15:10 < Dinnerbone> Thanks for the concerns!
15:11 <+sadimusi> well thanks for your elaborate answers
17:11 < superjoe> hello alasi 
17:11 < alasi> Ohai superjoe
17:12 < alasi> I really wanted to talk to you :D
17:12 < superjoe> I saw you were checking out some mineflayer stuff :)
17:12 < alasi> yeah
17:12 < alasi> Wait like on irc right?
17:12 < superjoe> uh
17:12 < alasi> nvm
17:12 < superjoe> yes
17:12 < alasi> heh
17:12 < alasi> So about mineflayer --
17:13 < alasi> Does the server it connects to, can it be a normal minecraft server?
17:13 < superjoe> yes
17:14 < alasi> and have you seen vogonostic's mineflayer voxel?
17:14 < superjoe> yep
17:14 < superjoe> pretty cool
17:14 < alasi> Yeah
17:14 < dexter0> link?
17:14 < superjoe> https://github.com/vogonistic/mineflayer-voxel
17:14 < alasi> https://github.com/vogonistic/mineflayer-voxel
17:14 < alasi> What part of mineflayer repo connects to the IP ?
17:15 < dexter0> ah, that is cool
17:15 < superjoe> there is a bunch of youtube stuff here: https://github.com/superjoe30/mineflayer#third-party-plugins
17:15 < alasi> brb
17:15 < superjoe> oh yeah and this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3AL5T4er7Y
17:17 < alasi> ooh
17:18 < alasi> So I'm planning to make a Paas the utilizes minecraft server data
17:18 < superjoe> Paas?
17:18 < alasi> And I'm trying to decide if I should do what you did, which is make a fake client
17:18 < alasi> yeah
17:18 < alasi> It's a hosted thing
17:19 < alasi> Server owners would subscribe
17:19 < superjoe> ah, platform as a service
17:19 < alasi> yes
17:19 < alasi> Well Product As Service sort of
17:19 < alasi> So yeah either a fake client or a bukkit plugin
17:19 < alasi> I saw in an npm
17:19 < alasi> called minecraft-protocol
17:20 < alasi> It parses mc packets, but apparently it'll get kicked for no identification? Does mineflayer get kicked from servers?
17:20 < superjoe> what makes you think it'll get kicked for no identification?
17:21 < alasi> gets kicked when no credentials supplied in online mode (4678ms) <<
17:21 < superjoe> that's happening to you?
17:21 < moejoe> hi all
17:21 < alasi> It says it on the npm page
17:22 < superjoe> alasi, I don't see what you're talking about
17:22 < alasi> https://npmjs.org/package/minecraft-protocol
17:22 < superjoe> oh. are you looking at the tests?
17:22 < alasi> yeah
17:22 < superjoe> okay... that is a test that makes sure if you connect to an "online-mode: true" server with no credentials, that you get kicked and are able to handle getting kicked properly
17:23 < superjoe> that means even the error conditions are working
17:23 < alasi> oh
17:23 < alasi> But would I be able to put a mineflayer bot on uberminecraft or something?
17:23 < alasi> And pwn people in the walls?
17:23 < superjoe> yes, assuming that uberminecraft is a vanilla server
17:23 < alasi> I doubt it
17:24 < alasi> There is like shopcraft or something
17:24 < superjoe> as long as you can play on uberminecraft with the normal client, without installing mods, then this package will work
17:24 < alasi> Oh cool
17:24 < moejoe> NickG around?
17:24 < superjoe> alasi, you're probably more interested in mineflayer
17:24 < alasi> superjoe: Yeah probably
17:24 < superjoe> which is still lagging behind by 1 minecraft version
17:25 < alasi> oh
17:25 < alasi> Maybe I should write a bukkit plugin then
17:25 < alasi> The idea is to make a voxeljs webview for a minecraft server
17:25 < alasi> And I'm deciding on streaming the view
17:26 < superjoe> neat
17:26 < alasi> yeah
17:26 < superjoe> vogonistic did a bunch of that work
17:26 < alasi> Yeah
17:26 < alasi> But again, it's mineflayer :P
17:26 < superjoe> there's not too much to do to get mineflayer up to date
17:27 < superjoe> I might get around to it this week
17:27 < alasi> oh cool
17:27 < alasi> Is there a way to make the bot hidden? (no steve visible, even when you list players)?
17:30 < superjoe> I hope not
17:30 < superjoe> that would be some pretty broken server logic
17:31 < alasi> oh
17:31 < alasi> Because I think it's a little intrusive if I had the camera bot (for streaming to the browser) visible and stalking all the players
17:31 < alasi> So I think I might go with websockets bukkit plugin
17:32 < superjoe> cool, have fun
17:32 < alasi> yeah..
17:32 < superjoe> yeah if you're trying to make a camera, you don't want a fake client
17:32 < superjoe> server plugin is a better way to go
17:32 < alasi> Ok, that's what I need to know 
17:33 < alasi> thanks
17:33 < superjoe> np
17:33 < superjoe> another possibility is a proxy
17:33 < alasi> How/What
17:33 < superjoe> sits in between the server and the clients
17:33 < alasi> Oh cool you work at learnboost?
17:34 < superjoe> no, I'm just the maintainer of one of their open source projects
17:34 < alasi> do the clients have to connect to that?
17:34 < alasi> Oh
17:34 < alasi> Yeah I saw juice
17:34 < superjoe> clients don't see anything different
17:34 < superjoe> you run both the proxy and the server on the server computer
17:34 < alasi> hmm
17:34 < superjoe> the real mc server is not exposed; it connects to the proxy
17:34 < superjoe> the proxy is exposed; the clients connect to it
17:35 < superjoe> since the proxy receives all the data for each client, you could do the camera thing
17:35 < alasi> But thats not very easy to implement for the server owners...
17:35 < superjoe> that might be a concern
17:35 < alasi> Yeah
17:35 < superjoe> I'm not familiar with server owners and what is or isn't convenient
17:36 < superjoe> I mean, I feel like my proxy is pretty easy to use
17:36 < alasi> The easiest thing would be 1) Fake Client 2) Bukkit plugin 3) Proxy
17:36 < superjoe> but I'm biased
17:36 < alasi> is it a standalone application?
17:36 < alasi> Fake client would be easiest to implement because the server owner could just use a web interface
17:36 < superjoe> yes it's a node program, you run it in the same folder as your minecraft server and it "just works"
17:36 < alasi> But again, nobody wants to install nodejs
17:36 < superjoe> orly
17:37 < superjoe> well they have to install *something*.
17:37 < alasi> I think bukkit might be easier to install
17:37 < alasi> Then the plugin broadcasts to the node server via websockets
17:37 < alasi> and there's no need to parse "ox10c" represents 'player update'
17:38 < alasi> Because I could have my own custom packet format
17:38 < alasi> idk
17:39 < superjoe> wait so there's already a node server?
17:39 < superjoe> so having node installed is a given
17:39 < alasi> Here's how I propose it be structured: Bukkit Plugin -> Paas (node server) -> Browser
17:40 < alasi> Node server would be hosted by Moi
17:40 < superjoe> node server sitting on the same machine as bukkit plugin?
17:40 < alasi> no
17:40 < alasi> It would be on nodejitsu or heroku or some shit
17:40 < superjoe> so you're sending the block data for every single client over the internet?
17:40 < alasi> Well yes, to the node server
17:41 < alasi> But theres even less data for the browser
17:41 < superjoe> and then sending it again to any connected clients
17:41 < alasi> ?
17:41 < superjoe> block data for every client travels over the internet for all connected clients to heroku
17:41 < alasi> no, it would be the server data
17:41 < superjoe> what's the difference?
17:41 < alasi> Bukkit plugin, not player plugin
17:42 < alasi> wait..
17:42 < superjoe> I'm not saying I don't think it will work
17:42 <+sadimusi> superjoe: the camera isn't following the players but a preconfigured path (if I got that correctly yestreday)
17:42 < superjoe> it just seems like a ton of bandwidth
17:42 < superjoe> might be worth making sure it's acceptable
17:43 < alasi> Browser receives the camera buffer packets -> Nodejs makes virtual camera buffer -> Bukkit server plugin sends general packets to node server
17:43 < alasi> Wait wrong order
17:44 <+sadimusi> and why doesn't bukkit do the job nodejs does now?
17:44 < alasi> sadimusi: Because it would use less bandwidth to send to the client
17:44 <+sadimusi> you can cut latency in half, if not more...
17:44 < superjoe> ^
17:44 <+sadimusi> how would it use less bandwith
17:44 <+sadimusi> +?
17:44 < alasi> Because the node server is the virtual camera buffer
17:45 < alasi> It takes the bukkit plugin's world data
17:45 <+sadimusi> make bukkit the virtual camera buffer
17:45 < superjoe> yes
17:45 < alasi> yeah
17:45 < alasi> hm
17:45 < alasi> But then there's not a lot of customizablility for the camera
17:45 < superjoe> yes there is
17:45 < alasi> The idea would be it's controlled over a web interface
17:45 <+sadimusi> sure there is
17:45 < superjoe> java is turing complete
17:46 < superjoe> you can still make a web interface with java
17:46 < superjoe> and voxeljs is a client-side thing right? so you can still use that too
17:46 < alasi> Yeah
17:46 < alasi> hmm
17:47 < alasi> The idea was, I would definitely open source a lot of the stuff, but it would also be a PaaS
17:48 < alasi> Plus, again, much harder for the server owners
17:48 <+sadimusi> you keep mentioning paas, I don't think it fits the task here
17:48 < alasi> ik
17:48 <+sadimusi> what is harder for server owners? installing a bukkit plugin?
17:48 < alasi> Installing nodejs and a bukkit plugin etc
17:48 < alasi> vs just a bukkit plugin
17:48 <+sadimusi> no need for nodejs
17:49 <+sadimusi> just make everything in the plugin
17:49 < alasi> hmm
17:49 < alasi> I hate java tbj
17:49 < alasi> tbh
17:49 <+sadimusi> write it in scala then :P
17:49 < alasi> write it in nodejs then :/
17:50 <+sadimusi> or write it in js and run it with rhino :P
17:50 < alasi> IDK, I have the summer, maybe I'll try a bunch of different approaches
17:51 < alasi> Today maybe I'll fire up eclipse and do something
17:51 < alasi> I'll see how websockets work in java/bukkit
17:53 <+sadimusi> if you're going to do the whole webinterface in java I'd have a look at some frameworks
17:53 <+sadimusi> like play
17:54 <+sadimusi> most of them also support websockets
17:54 < alasi> Is that like apache of some sort
17:54 < alasi> Cause how does the web interface interact with the plugin
17:54 < alasi> Is it stored in a db?
17:55 <+sadimusi> if you run it as a bukkit plugin you have direct access to all server mechanics
17:55 < barneygale> alasi: https://github.com/masteroftime/Python-Plugin-Loader might be up your street?
17:55 < alasi> barneygale: Nah, we're talking about nodejs
17:55 < alasi> Bukkit would be installed as bukkit
17:56 < alasi> Then the rest would be separate
17:56 < barneygale> yeah, I just saw you didn't want to use java
17:56 < alasi> I'll write a bukkit plugin, it's just that I dont want to do EVERYHTING in java
17:56 < dx> there are javascript plugin loaders too
17:56 < alasi> There's no need for a plugin loader
17:57 < alasi> The plugin itself would just be a websocket client
17:57 < alasi> Broadcasting server attributes to a remote service
17:57 < alasi> remote service = nodejs
17:57 <+sadimusi> I don't like java that much, but creating suchg a complex system just because of that is insane
17:58 < alasi> The java plugin's just a client to the mainframe though
17:58 < alasi> mainframe = nodejs xD
17:58 < alasi> So is the web interface
17:59 <+sadimusi> if you insist on using javascript at least use a js plugin loader for bukkit
17:59 < alasi> What's a plugin loader for?
18:00 < alasi> Do you write plugins to interpret to java?
18:00 < dx> http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-plugins/jxpl/
18:00 <+sadimusi> you write your plugin in js and it'll get run as if it were java
18:00 < barneygale> It lets you access the bukkit api from another language. The one I linked uses jython, which compiles python to jvm bytecode. I can't remember how it lets you use the bukkit api
18:00 < barneygale> something clever
18:01 < alasi> m
18:02 < barneygale> you should just write it in java though. people don't like plugins that are complicated to install
18:02 < alasi> Yeah
18:02 < alasi> I should
18:02 < alasi> Especially if it's much more complicated to set up then going to http://minecraftthingy.com, getting an authkey, and putting that in a text file
18:03 < alasi> Then you just manage everything on http://minecraftthingy.com
18:03 < barneygale> you probably could do it the way you're talking, but it's quite ambitious and headache-y. The wrapper I maintain is being split up into >1 process and it's messy getting the protocol sane.
18:03 < alasi> What do you mean, wrapper?
18:04 < barneygale> wraps the minecraft process, i.e. launches it as a child and wraps stdin/stdout/stderr
18:04 < alasi> hm
18:04 < barneygale> not applicable to what you're doing, I only mentioned it for the >1 process comparison
18:05 < alasi> If I download Bukkit Api will I be able to use it as a test server?
18:05 < dx> the bukkit api is... just an api. not the implementation, not the server
18:05 < alasi> oh
18:05 < dx> craftbukkit is the implementation
18:05 < alasi> ok
18:11 < alasi> wtf it's outdated
18:13 < dx> ...did you grab the recommended build and expected it to support 1.6.x, which still has bugs in vanilla?
18:13 < alasi> yes
18:13 < dx> http://dl.bukkit.org/downloads/craftbukkit/
18:13 < alasi> I said outdated server
18:13 < dx> grab latest dev
18:14 < alasi> Oh ok
18:14 < alasi> I will later
18:17 < dx> the bukkit devs take stability so seriously that they didn't promote a recommended build for 1.5.2 until two weeks before 1.6 was released
18:17 <+ammar2> lol
18:21 < dx> (okay maybe that's not the exact reason, but whatever.)
22:38 <+sadimusi> lol http://people.zoy.org/~sam/filsdepute.txt
22:46 <+clonejo> sadimusi: btw, http://hmarco.org/bugs/CVE-2013-4788.html
23:07 <+sadimusi> clonejo: look at the source of the page I linked ;)
23:13 <+clonejo> hahaha
23:24 < dx> hah, nice
23:25 < dx> didn't know -1 was accepted as a "pid"
--- Day changed mer. juil. 17 2013
00:14 < LaxWasHere> Hey, where'd the protocol list go?! :| http://wiki.vg/Pre-release_protocol
00:16 <+sadimusi> what list?
00:17 <+sadimusi> you mean http://wiki.vg/Protocol_History?
00:18 < LaxWasHere> That! :D
00:20 <+pdelvo> its incomplete. there is missing a lot
00:47 < SpaceManiac> :(
01:28 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2069 189 files : Updated all code copyright notices to "2009-2013"
10:09 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-0/±5] http://git.io/-XJ3SA
10:09 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 11516a9 - Protocol cleanup
16:58 <+sadimusi> I'm rewriting mc4p's protocol definitions and could use some opinions
16:58 <+sadimusi> awesome or way too much magic? http://pastie.org/8149356
17:02 < dexter0> wow, you can do that in python?  Context aware constructors?
17:03  * dexter0 does not know python
17:06 <+sadimusi> there's quite a bit of black magic going on
17:07 < iBotPeaches> it looks sexy
17:07 < dexter0> sure does
17:07 <+ammar2> sadimusi: pretty nice, I'd imagine the code to actually handle it is a nightmare though
17:08 <+sadimusi> ammar2: it definitely is
17:08 <+sadimusi> I am trying to imitate sqlalchemy to some extent (http://docs.sqlalchemy.org/en/rel_0_8/orm/extensions/declarative.html)
17:11 <+ammar2> also how are you going to handle special stuff like 0x1D which has a prefix of number of ints, then requires you to read that many ints
17:11 <+ammar2> same for chunk bulk packet where a short specifies how many columns to read
17:11 <+sadimusi> I will probably do it similar to the old system https://github.com/sadimusi/mc4p/blob/master/mc4p/messages.py#L892
17:12 <+sadimusi> some packets probably need custom field types
17:12 <+sadimusi> I hope I can put them into the class definitions as well
17:13 <+sadimusi> oh, you meant 0x1d, not 0xd1
17:13 <+sadimusi> no you probably didn't
17:14 <+ammar2> they're abotu the same
17:15 <+sadimusi> currently 0x1d just has a custom field type, but I'm trying to avoid that as much as possible
17:15 <+sadimusi> probably won't have a choice for stuff like 0x2c though
17:16 <+ammar2> sadimusi: when I'm gonna be overhauling my python protocol implementation, I hope to do something similar but was gonna put in a field type in the form of a python function to handle complex types like that
17:16 <+ammar2> seems like the cleanest solution to me
17:17 <+sadimusi> well, all field types are classes with a write and a read method
17:17 <+sadimusi> currently they're just all defined in one place which doesn't make much sense
17:17 <+sadimusi> and there are way too many of them
17:18 <+ammar2> yeah I was gonna have a file per each protocol that inherits from other protocol files and makes changes to it
17:45 < dav1d> PUSH TIME
17:45 < dav1d> after 3days no internet -.
17:45 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 35 commits to master [+2/-0/±63] http://git.io/qikYZA
17:45 < dav1d> Not-002: pls
17:46 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 607a763 - return blocks from empty chunks
17:46 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 26586fd - fix a few nasty bugs, opengl resources get released again!
17:46 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 7ba2eca - individual loglevel/writer for NamedLogger
17:46 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 2da40f6 - implement logger.log_exception
17:46 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 28a35d5 - fix compilation in utils.log
17:46 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde a11deb7 - fix formatstring
17:46 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 688fbef - fix grass and crafting table
17:46 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde f2b377c - seed prng once
17:46 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde ef29780 - less work for the GC
17:46 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 807808f - fix is_valid_position
17:46 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 150f046 - implement block.name
17:46 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde a9626d0 - implement sliding along edges, instead of preventing movement
17:46 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 97ecdb6 - fix delta_ticks?
17:46 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 0ce3ce9 - revert to old queue, mutex.lock took up to 700ms
17:46 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 1bc0c00 - fix furnace
17:46 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 57124a2 - cleanup queue