13:53 <+md_5> so 13:53 < dav1d> md_5: no 13:53 <+md_5> you havent done that yet 13:53 <+md_5> and we cant expect it for a while 13:54 < dav1d> md_5: I can send a string length of 10 13:54 <+md_5> and even when it hits it might not fit his needs 13:54 < dav1d> md_5: but still encoded-string length as 300000 13:54 < dav1d> *64Ki 13:54 < dav1d> md_5: that's what Grum wanted to prevent 13:54 <+md_5> is there fixed width utf8? 13:54 < dav1d> md_5: no, but maximum width is 4 13:54 <+md_5> using '4' seems hacky 13:55 < dav1d> md_5: yes, there is no other way (I see) except parsing utf-8 manually, which Grum obviously doesn't want → untestable 13:55 <+md_5> its not untestable ? 13:57 < dav1d> md_5: his words 13:57 <+md_5> int dataLen = in.readInt(); 13:57 <+md_5> if ( dataLen / 4 > maxLen ) 13:57 <+md_5> { 13:57 <+md_5> throw new IOException( "String data longer than allowed " + dataLen / 4 + " > " + maxLen ); 13:57 <+md_5> } 13:57 <+md_5> #problem solved? 13:57 <+md_5> its approx 13:57 <+md_5> but good enough for trickle attack prevention 13:57 <+md_5> not that I need that with non blocking io 13:57 < dav1d> md_5: that's what I had 13:58 <+md_5> I made it fancy 13:58 <+md_5> :3 13:58 < dav1d> only your error is better formated :P 13:58 <+md_5> and I used a static charset 13:58 < dav1d> question is, if that's good enough for Grum 13:58 < dav1d> md_5: as I said "buffer" shouldn't be allocated every read either 13:59 <+md_5> meh 13:59 <+md_5> threadlocal works I guess 13:59 <+md_5> not really an advantage though 13:59 < SinZ> Dinnerbone: I still think having to go through your launcher to get to my launcher is going to be horrible for the end-user 13:59 < dav1d> md_5: wait minecraft is threaded? 14:00 < dav1d> oh right 14:00 < dav1d> nvm 14:00 <+md_5> yeah 14:00 <+md_5> networing 14:00 < dav1d> ignore that 14:00 < dav1d> yeah of course it is, networking 14:01 < dav1d> md_5: lol http://j7a.ru/_data_input_stream_8java_source.html 14:02 < dav1d> md_5: "private" != threadlocal, is it? 14:02 < dav1d> would be strange 14:02 < dav1d> I guess that stream (readUTF..) is not threadsafe then 14:02 < dav1d> line 00598 14:06 <+md_5> nothing in Data*Stream* is thread safe 14:06 < dav1d> lul 14:07 <+md_5> its a stream 14:07 <+md_5> it cant possibly be thread safe 14:07 < dav1d> oh 14:07 < dav1d> -.- 14:07 < dav1d> you're right 14:07 < dav1d> I don't know why I was thinking that is a global/static buffer 14:08 < dav1d> http://vp.dav1d.de/Tlvip?ReadUTF8.java 14:12 < dav1d> Grum: ^ what do you think? yes/no/not good enough? 14:13 -!- Drainedsoul_2 [~Drainedso@mail.rleahy.ca] has joined #mcdevs 14:20 < Grum> i dont get the /4 14:20 < unnicked177> writeUTF8 method in readUTF8 class -> java way of thinking 14:21 < Grum> ok someone ban this retard already 14:21 -!- Aaron00 [~chatzilla@78-21-65-180.access.telenet.be] has joined #mcdevs 14:21 < unnicked177> Grum: sorry, but it looks illogical 14:21 < Aaron00> Hey! 14:21 < Grum> mmm i do the / 4 14:21 < Grum> unnicked177: it *OBVIOUSLY* is just a piece of testcode 14:21 <+md_5> sigh 14:21 < Grum> erm i get the /4 14:21 <+md_5> no one wants you here unnicked177 , why do you stick around 14:22 < Grum> unsticked77 already 14:22 < unnicked177> ... 14:23 < unnicked177> how was i supposed to know it was piece of testcode? 14:23 < unnicked177> looks like typical java class 14:23 < dav1d> Grum: alright, maximum length for a unicode/utf-8 character is 4byte 14:24 < Aaron00> I'm trying to send a chunk with dirt to test my server, before I try sending data from the mca files, but it's not working :s I'm a beginner in this though: http://pastebin.com/gGVPEpT1 I send this after the login 14:24 < dav1d> Grum: now if we assume the worst case, that every character/codepoint is 4 byte, and we are still above max-length, it's over already 14:24 * SinZ isn't sure if he should start documenting Yggdrasil on the wiki 14:25 < Grum> dav1d: yeah i said i got it .... :P 14:25 < dav1d> Grum: so worst case, someone can dos the server with is pure-utf32 characters 14:25 < dav1d> Grum: ohh you did :(, didn't see that 14:25 < Grum> anyhow, i am rather curious how java would .... represent utf32 in chars :/ 14:25 < dav1d> Grum: UTF-8 I guess 14:25 < dav1d> Grum: eh 16 14:25 <+md_5> I have no clue how strings outside of 65365 work internally 14:26 < dav1d> Grum: utf-16 internally 14:26 < SinZ> how would utf-16 show utf32 14:26 < dav1d> SinZ: mh? 14:26 < Grum> utf16 is jsut the encoding, it ends up being 4byte blocks 14:27 < dav1d> utf16 is variable length 14:27 < dav1d> Grum: yeah as 2 characters 14:27 < Grum> oh utf32 is fixed? 14:27 < dav1d> 2 chars 14:27 < dav1d> Grum: utf-32 is maximum you can get, 4byte 14:27 < Grum> ugh 2 chars ;D 14:27 < SinZ> ah 14:27 < dav1d> there is no character which doesn't fit into 4byte 14:27 < dav1d> 2**32 are quite a few 14:28 < SinZ> yes, 4 billion or so 14:28 < dav1d> 4 GiB 14:28 < dav1d> I think^^ 14:28 < Grum> so dav1d, do you also happen to know howto do proper ligature rendering? ;D 14:29 < dav1d> Grum: haha, I actually have a project I'd get payed for implementing that 14:29 < dav1d> well slightly different job 14:29 < SinZ> Mojang will give you 5 hug coupons per purchase if you implement it for Minecraft 14:29 <+md_5> sigh 14:30 <+md_5> how did we humans 14:30 < dav1d> I'd get 60$/hour for that ;) 14:30 <+md_5> get to the stage where we need more than 65365 characters to represent stuff 14:30 < dav1d> Grum: actually no 14:30 < Grum> dav1d: it seems not fun at all 14:30 < Grum> and lots of manual fucking around 14:30 < dav1d> Grum: I'd use a real font 14:30 < Grum> that doesnt solve anything 14:30 < Grum> for opengl you HAVE to do this anyhow 14:31 < dav1d> Grum: well and libraries that do that for you 14:31 < Grum> because to render anything you have to first blit it to a texture and then render it 14:31 < Grum> dav1d: like what? :D 14:31 < Grum> nothing i could find :P 14:31 < dav1d> Grum: cairo and pango, but meh, not what you're looking for I guess 14:31 < dav1d> Grum: cairo has rudimentary support and pango can use cairo as backend to do it correctly 14:31 < dav1d> problem: pango depends on a shitload of gtk stuff 14:31 < dav1d> iirc 14:32 < Grum> the 'best' thing would be figureing out the alternative codepoints for the things that should change 14:32 < Grum> changing the string 14:32 < Grum> and then just fucking rendering it :P 14:32 < Grum> but the 'alternative ones' is .... complex matter 14:33 < dav1d> I don't understand? 14:33 < Grum> with the ligatures, the actual character it *should* render exists as a unicode char 14:33 < Grum> but some can have 3-4 alternatives 14:33 < Grum> depending on what is surrounding the character 14:33 < Grum> so if you were to know which one to pick ..... 14:33 < Grum> you can just render it plain and simple 14:34 < dav1d> Grum: http://cairographics.org/manual/cairo-text.html#cairo-show-text I think it was that one, but I am really not sure about that 14:34 < Aaron00> Anyone want to give me some tips on my previous post? :) 14:34 < Grum> dav1d: its: http://unicode.org/reports/tr9/#Shaping 14:35 < Grum> well partly 14:35 < Grum> that doesnt handle ligatures perse 14:36 < dav1d> proper unicode support is hard :( 14:36 < ShaRose> ooo, this convo is sort of relevant to me 14:36 < dav1d> people from suckless experienced that, too, the reason I still use urxvt instead of st 14:37 < ShaRose> in the way that I ignored unicode support entirely because it was a bitch 14:37 < Grum> we;re doing it wrong in mc 14:37 < SinZ> We gathered that 14:37 < Grum> but .... i kinda want to replace the font renderer and do it less wrong ;( 14:37 < ShaRose> yeah 14:38 < ShaRose> but doing it in twl is such a bitch 14:38 < Grum> i dont think twl does it properly either 14:38 < ShaRose> it doesn't 14:39 < dav1d> minecraft still uses the font.png? 14:39 < ShaRose> also, giant xml definition for every single god damn character 14:39 < Grum> yes and you *can* do it using that 14:39 < dav1d> yes, but it's not optimal 14:39 < Grum> there is no optimal way 14:40 < dav1d> I think I'd try cairo ass backend, depending on how I implent UI 14:40 < dav1d> s/ass/as/ 14:40 -!- Aaron00 [~chatzilla@78-21-65-180.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130511120803]] 14:40 < ShaRose> lol 14:40 < ShaRose> I googled "optimal way to do unicode" first result said "I'm not sure I understand the question, but the answer is pretty easy: Don't do it!" 14:40 -!- Amaranth [~travis@ubuntu/member/Amaranth] has joined #mcdevs 14:40 -!- mode/#mcdevs [+v Amaranth] by ChanServ 14:41 < dav1d> "Note: The cairo_show_text() function call is part of what the cairo designers call the "toy" text API. It is convenient for short demos and simple programs, but it is not expected to be adequate for serious text-using applications. " 14:41 < dav1d> ah yeah 14:41 < dav1d> so it's http://cairographics.org/manual/cairo-text.html#cairo-show-glyphs and you need to convert it to glyphs first 14:41 -!- Amaranthus [~travis@ubuntu/member/Amaranth] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:42 < dav1d> or use pango 14:42 < Grum> http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr15/ <-- seems that i need to do that 14:42 < Grum> i need to do a NFC or NFCK translation orso :/ 14:43 < dav1d> yeah pango needs gobject 14:45 < dav1d> Grum: freetype? 14:45 < Grum> java.text.Normalizer perhaps =) 14:45 < dav1d> never used it, but seems to be widely used 14:45 -!- nevyn_ [~nevyn@c193-14-106-80.cust.tele2.se] has joined #mcdevs 14:45 < Grum> mmmm 14:45 < ShaRose> I'm actually looking at freetype and OGLFT now 14:45 < Grum> that might just be enough! O.o 14:46 < Grum> ShaRose: nothing java for that though 14:46 < ShaRose> yeah that's the issue 14:46 < Grum> mm i think textNormalizer might be enough o.O 14:46 < dav1d> Grum: that only lowers the number of glyphs you need in the font.png 14:47 < dav1d> but you will still have a lot of glyphs in there 14:51 < ShaRose> http://www.badlogicgames.com/wordpress/?p=2300 !! 14:51 < ShaRose> someone wrapped freetype 14:51 < dav1d> probably easy 14:51 < dav1d> you only need to load a dll 14:52 < dav1d> gah stuipid university, I now wanna play with a lua UI and freetype 14:52 <+sadimusi> sorry guys, I was sleeping 14:52 -!- mode/#mcdevs [+o sadimusi] by ChanServ 14:53 -!- unnicked177 was kicked from #mcdevs by sadimusi [unnicked177] 14:53 < dav1d> finally 14:53 -!- mode/#mcdevs [+b unnicked*!*@*] by sadimusi 14:53 -!- mode/#mcdevs [-o sadimusi] by sadimusi 14:53 < dav1d> sadimusi: guten morgen! 14:53 < dav1d> 14:53 and sleeping pfft 14:53 <+sadimusi> :D 14:54 < ShaRose> went to bed 3 am, woke up 10 am 14:54 < dav1d> similiar here 14:54 < dav1d> but I stayed until 11:30 am in bed :P 14:54 <+sadimusi> it was 5am for me and i need a lot of sleep... 14:54 < ShaRose> https://github.com/libgdx/libgdx/commit/2c9030de2ddb983cfaeb5736089453b32c559cc1 lol 14:55 < dav1d> ShaRose: how did your presentation go? 14:55 < ShaRose> presentation what 14:55 <+sadimusi> very well 14:55 < ShaRose> ah, misping 14:55 <+sadimusi> but I still have to write my thesis :/ 14:55 <+sadimusi> but burger comes first :) 14:59 < ShaRose> why 14:59 < ShaRose> why isn't there a better alternative than public static final String DEFAULT_CHARS = "lots of shit" 15:10 -!- Drainedsoul_2 [~Drainedso@mail.rleahy.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:17 < Grum> wtf does that say in english? ;D 15:19 -!- [z]2 [~z@cpc2-seac20-2-0-cust453.7-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #mcdevs 15:21 -!- [z] [~z@cpc2-seac20-2-0-cust453.7-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:27 < dav1d> G+ down? lol? 16:00 < dx> oh hey pbunny2 banned :D 16:00 < dx> sadimusi: thanks <3 16:10 -!- Prf_Jako1 [~jakob@c-2b27e155.1214-1-64736c20.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #mcdevs 16:10 -!- mode/#mcdevs [+v Prf_Jako1] by ChanServ 16:10 -!- Prf_Jakob [~jakob@c-2b27e155.1214-1-64736c20.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:10 -!- Prf_Jako1 is now known as Prf_Jakob 16:19 -!- SpaceManiac [~SpaceMani@r74-192-152-131.gtwncmta01.grtntx.tl.dh.suddenlink.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:24 -!- buttscicles [joe@sna.yl.io] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:25 -!- TomyLobo [~TomyLobo@91-65-210-133-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #mcdevs 16:29 -!- buttscicles [joe@sna.yl.io] has joined #mcdevs 16:32 -!- conehead [~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead] has joined #mcdevs 16:36 <+SirCmpwn> have I missed anything interesting 16:38 < dx> not much 16:39 < dx> fixed ping packets to support proper virtual hosting, utf-8 strings instead of ucs-2, packet length headers, switched to bson where nbt was used and WoW style translations for chat instead of json, and some other stuff that doesn't matter either 16:40 * SirCmpwn sighs 16:40 < dx> oh also the next jar release is going to be deobfuscated 16:40 <+sadimusi> dx: isn't the DNS approach enough for virtual hosting? 16:41 <+SirCmpwn> it's a shitty solution, imo 16:41 <+SirCmpwn> even Gr*m doesn't like it, and the fix is simple 16:41 <+sadimusi> why don't you like it? it's perfect 16:41 < dx> i'm fine with SRV records 16:42 <+sadimusi> the other way you still have to proxy everything through one server 16:42 <+SirCmpwn> I don't like it because few other applications use it, so it's not very well known, and a lot of standard libraries (including .NET) don't support it, so it adds an additional dependencies 16:42 < dx> they are awkward, but they are just aliases like CNAME, but better 16:42 -!- iBotPeaches [ibotpeache@pdpc/supporter/student/ibotpeaches] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:42 <+SirCmpwn> dependency* 16:43 <+SirCmpwn> but that's pretty low importance, there are other things I want dealt with more 16:43 < dx> sadimusi: the problem with virtual hosting was that the ping packet sent from the client never mentioned what virtual server it was trying to connect to 16:44 < dx> sadimusi: so every server that went through the same proxy would get the same motd, player count, etc. 16:44 <+sadimusi> I know, I wrote one of the first of those proxies 16:44 < dx> sadimusi: anyway that should be fixed in 1.6.1 16:44 <+sadimusi> but SRV record support makes these proxy based solutions completely obsolete 16:45 < dx> except that sometimes you need an actual proxy 16:45 < dx> like bungee 16:45 <+sadimusi> sure, that's a different story 16:46 -!- iBotPeaches [ibotpeache@pdpc/supporter/student/ibotpeaches] has joined #mcdevs 16:48 -!- Yoshi2 [~Yoshi2@xdsl-87-78-31-144.netcologne.de] has joined #mcdevs 16:49 -!- Yoshi2 [~Yoshi2@xdsl-87-78-31-144.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 16:49 -!- Yoshi2 [~chatzilla@xdsl-87-78-31-144.netcologne.de] has joined #mcdevs 16:51 < dav1d> Grum: will we have utf-8 for 1.6? 16:51 < dav1d> omg BSON!? 16:51 -!- moejoe [jonas@hund.fs.lmu.de] has joined #mcdevs 16:52 < dav1d> dx: ^ 16:52 < dav1d> dx: did you troll or are you serious? 16:53 < dx> dav1d: 90% troll 16:53 <+sadimusi> guess :P 16:53 < dav1d> dammit 16:53 < Yoshi2> what, where, bson? o.O 16:53 < dav1d> would have been to good! 16:53 < dav1d> *too 17:02 -!- iBotPeaches [ibotpeache@pdpc/supporter/student/ibotpeaches] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:03 -!- iBotPeaches [~iBotPeach@pdpc/supporter/student/ibotpeaches] has joined #mcdevs 17:06 -!- Socolin [~bertrand@AMontsouris-653-1-47-104.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #mcdevs 17:07 < Socolin> Hello 17:07 -!- iBotPeaches [~iBotPeach@pdpc/supporter/student/ibotpeaches] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:10 < Grum> dav1d: no idea 17:10 < Grum> first solve the rendering issues ;) 17:10 < dav1d> ah.. kk :) 17:11 <+SirCmpwn> dx: 10% of that was serious? Which 10%? 17:11 < dx> SirCmpwn: "fixed ping packets to support proper virtual hosting" 17:11 < Socolin> does anyone know a good bot to test a server performance (like 500 client moving int a defined area) which can be run only one computer, I have try some python bot, but I get 100% cpu with 100 bot :( 17:12 < dx> Socolin: http://www.spigotmc.org/threads/stress-testing-servers.175/ 17:12 < dx> although 17:12 < dx> "some python bot" and "100% cpu" might be exactly this one 17:12 -!- TRocket [~TRocket@82-69-14-167.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #mcdevs 17:13 < dx> unless ammar2 unfucked his awful python code 17:14 < Socolin> thank you dx 17:16 -!- iBotPeaches [~iBotPeach@pdpc/supporter/student/ibotpeaches] has joined #mcdevs 17:18 -!- SpaceManiac [~SpaceMani@r74-192-152-131.gtwncmta01.grtntx.tl.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #mcdevs 17:19 -!- Calinou [~Calinou@unaffiliated/calinou] has joined #mcdevs 17:22 -!- iBotPeaches [~iBotPeach@pdpc/supporter/student/ibotpeaches] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:22 -!- dexter0 [~dexter0@c-24-23-138-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: exit(0);] 17:39 -!- SuinDraw [~NiaTeppel@WiseOS/Founder/NiaTeppelin] has joined #mcdevs 17:39 -!- Zartec [~Thunderbi@95-89-157-17-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #mcdevs 17:43 -!- r04r is now known as r04r|away 17:47 -!- iBotPeaches [ibotpeache@pdpc/supporter/student/ibotpeaches] has joined #mcdevs 17:51 -!- dexter0 [~dexter0@c-24-23-138-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #mcdevs 17:55 < Socolin> dx: this version of bot work better, but don't send enough packets/sec for simulate "real" clients 17:57 < dx> Socolin: what kind of packets, movement? 17:57 < Socolin> yes 17:57 < Socolin> I need 20/sec 17:57 < Socolin> to do some adjustment 17:58 < dx> https://github.com/ammaraskar/pyCraft/blob/bots/networking/NetworkManager.py#L374 17:58 < dx> go nuts. 17:58 < Socolin> I have change this already 17:58 < Socolin> ^^ 17:58 -!- conehead [~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:09 -!- conehead [~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead] has joined #mcdevs 18:12 -!- Calinou [~Calinou@unaffiliated/calinou] has quit [Quit: Excess Flood] 18:14 -!- dexter0 [~dexter0@c-24-23-138-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: exit(0);] 18:28 < dav1d> I should make BraLa's networking into a library and add epoll/kqueue/libev support 18:29 -!- dexter0 [~dexter0@c-24-23-138-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #mcdevs 18:30 <+SirCmpwn> dx: I bet they fucked it up 18:30 <+SirCmpwn> dx: details? 18:32 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2049 2 files : Enabled /SetGen command and updated /Gen help. 18:34 < Drainedsoul> no iocp support? 18:34 <+SirCmpwn> iocp? 18:34 < Drainedsoul> Input/Output Completion Ports 18:34 < dav1d> i/o completion port 18:34 < dav1d> that's a windows (and solaris?) thing? 18:35 < Drainedsoul> yeah and one other OS 18:35 < dav1d> I'd probably go for libev 18:35 < Drainedsoul> AIX apparently is the other one 18:35 <+SirCmpwn> what do you want that for 18:35 < Drainedsoul> it's "kqueue/epoll for Windows" 18:36 < dav1d> and it even works on files! (iirc) 18:36 < Drainedsoul> absolutely, it's also a high performance threaded queue, you don't even need I/O to use it 18:36 < Drainedsoul> it's very bizarre 18:36 < dx> SirCmpwn: it's just sending a 'plugin message' packet after 0xFE 0x01 since, surprisingly, servers can handle that just fine 18:37 < dav1d> ever tried to read from stdin asynchronosly on windows? → make a thread 18:37 <+SirCmpwn> yup, they fucked it up 18:37 < Drainedsoul> omg 18:37 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: yep 18:37 < Drainedsoul> reading from standard streams on Windowns is a massive complaint of mine 18:37 < dx> SirCmpwn: why 18:37 < Drainedsoul> because you can't use ReadConsole/WriteConsole on them if they're redirected to a file 18:37 < dav1d> if you want it cross-platform → use threads 18:38 < dx> SirCmpwn: there was no way to extend 0xFE without breaking backwards compat, but this works 18:38 <+SirCmpwn> dx: there most certainly is a way 18:38 <+SirCmpwn> dx: you stop using 0xFE at all and make another ping packet 18:38 < dx> SirCmpwn: >without breaking backwards compat 18:38 <+SirCmpwn> that doesn't break backwards compatability 18:38 < dx> SirCmpwn: you'd have to send both packets to both kind of servers 18:38 <+SirCmpwn> nope 18:38 < dx> or guess the version somehow 18:38 <+SirCmpwn> old clients can continue using 0xFE, and the server will continue to respond to it 18:39 <+SirCmpwn> new clients use 0xXX, and the server responds with 0xYY 18:39 < dx> and what do old servers respond with? 18:39 <+ammar2> but what if you send the new packet to an old server 18:39 < Drainedsoul> they die and then the new client can use the old ping? 18:39 <+ammar2> it wont respond, so you have to make another connection which sends the old 0xfe 18:39 <+SirCmpwn> if the old server fails to respond, they're shown as outdated in the server list 18:39 <+ammar2> and all the motd/player count info gets gobbled up :< 18:40 < dx> so basically breaking backwards compat 18:40 < dx> intentionally 18:40 <+SirCmpwn> or the client falls back to 0xFE if you really want it to 18:40 <+SirCmpwn> which would have perfect backwards compatability 18:40 < dx> what exactly is the problem with the current solution? 18:40 <+SirCmpwn> because the server has to wait for the plugin message before it can determine how to respond 18:40 < dx> it only fails for servers that didn't have the schrodinger byte, but i don't think you care about those 18:41 <+SirCmpwn> which has the exact same bloody problem the schrodinger's byte introduced in the first place 18:41 <+SirCmpwn> i.e. breaking everyone's protocol code (assuming they designed it with any sense) 18:42 <+SirCmpwn> how will the plugin message be done, I wonder. Will they make it possible to extend in the future, or will they make the same mistake for a third time 18:42 < dx> actually... 18:43 < dx> the previous solution used the schrodinger byte as a "version" 18:43 < dx> since its value doesn't matter 18:43 <+SirCmpwn> what do you mean, as a version 18:44 < dav1d> double Y chromosoms :O oh noes 18:44 < dav1d> poor guy 18:44 < dx> SirCmpwn: have a 73 instead of a 1 in that byte 18:44 < dx> SirCmpwn: if it's not 1, keep reading for more contents 18:45 <+SirCmpwn> that still has the same exact problems I keep bringing up 18:45 < dx> ...why? 18:45 <+SirCmpwn> the very existence of the shrodinger's byte breaks any sensibly designed protocol implementation! 18:46 < dx> well... this change does break backwards compat with pre-schrodinger byte servers 18:46 < dx> they normally parsed the 0x01 as a keepalive 18:46 < dx> with has an int after it 18:47 < dx> grum just decided he didn't care about pre-schrodinger byte servers, and for once, i'm glad he doesn't 18:47 -!- TRocket [~TRocket@82-69-14-167.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:47 -!- TRocket [~TRocket@82-69-14-167.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #mcdevs 18:49 < dav1d> schrodinger byte? 18:49 < dx> dav1d: the payload of 0xFE, which may or may not be there depending on who sends it 18:50 < dav1d> oh, this is new, I guess 18:50 < dx> nah 18:50 <+pdelvo> no 18:50 < dav1d> :O 18:50 < dx> it's in the wiki as "magic" 18:50 < dx> the schrodinger reference is new for me though 18:50 < dav1d> ah, I see 18:50 < dav1d> don't understand it either 18:51 <+pdelvo> but we can see if it is there or not. so it is not a schrodinger byte 18:51 < dx> it's a silly name 18:51 < dx> but the way to handle that magic is fucked up 18:52 < Drainedsoul> waiting to see if the client sends it? 18:52 < dx> i.e. a socket read timeout 18:52 < dx> ye 18:52 <+sadimusi> It worked out pretty well for me, I just see it as a separate packet 18:52 < Drainedsoul> well, it's only a socket read timeout if you're using blocking sockets 18:52 < Drainedsoul> (who does that) 18:52 < dx> sadimusi: still gotta wait for it 18:52 <+sadimusi> why? 18:52 <+pdelvo> not really a timeout the other side closes the connection 18:53 <+sadimusi> when it was added all I had to do was add an empty 0x01 packet definition 18:54 <+sadimusi> there's no need to wait for it or anything 18:54 < dav1d> what's this discussion all about? Is it used for the legacy-connection stuff? 18:54 < dx> i guess you could do that if you handle ping connections separately 18:55 < dx> 0x01 is usually keepalive 18:55 < Drainedsoul> I don't see how defining 0x01 separately gets around waiting for it 18:55 < dav1d> 0x01 = Login, isn't it? 18:55 < Drainedsoul> you need to know whether it's there or not to respond appropriately 18:55 < dx> Drainedsoul: he doesn't wait, he just sends the same thing regardless of its presence 18:56 < dav1d> pdelvo: btw. did you have a disconnect today? 18:56 < Drainedsoul> but old clients won't understand that? Why even bother. Just wait for the 0x01 and time the connection out on inactivity 18:56 < dx> dav1d: oh snap you're right 18:56 < dav1d> 0x00 is KeepAlive 18:56 < dx> why did i think it was keepalive 18:56 <+pdelvo> I dont think so 18:57 <+pdelvo> I think my bouncer is working again (the pdelvo_ in here) 18:57 -!- Kep [~Kep@50.46.235.80] has joined #mcdevs 18:58 < pdelvo_> jeah it is. znc is magically working again 18:58 < dav1d> ^^ 19:00 <+SirCmpwn> here's how I would fix 0xFE: https://gist.github.com/SirCmpwn/165de0e96a8ff2087b8f (cc Grum, Dinnerbone) 19:02 < Drainedsoul> everyone loves dictionaries 19:03 <+SirCmpwn> dictionaries won't break when they want to change them later 19:03 < Drainedsoul> nope 19:04 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: use nbt? 19:04 <+SirCmpwn> I like to pretend NBT doesn't exist 19:04 < Drainedsoul> ^ 19:04 < dav1d> even more dynamic and sends the type 19:04 <+SirCmpwn> but maybe you're right 19:05 < dav1d> meh, nbt isn't really the worst of the protocol 19:05 <+SirCmpwn> fork the gist, submit a revised version 19:05 < dav1d> na, no time^^ 19:05 <+SirCmpwn> asdf 19:05 < dx> i'd agree that nbt would be decent for this, but we will never get grum to add a single bit of extra nbt related code to the protocol, so forget it 19:05 <+SirCmpwn> I'll do it, then 19:05 < dav1d> dx: bson! 19:06 < Drainedsoul> why not use JSON, they seem gung ho on that 19:06 <+SirCmpwn> I also like to pretend that they don't actually send JSON over the wire 19:06 < dav1d> yeah json would also do it... 19:07 <+SirCmpwn> it's just too stupid for me to comprehend 19:07 < dav1d> I don't see why they don't use bson 19:07 < dx> we won't get bson until they get flooded by complaints of sysadmins saying that json uses too much bandwidth, which won't happen since all people notice about bandwidth usage is when it goes over 100% 19:07 < dav1d> from what I've seen it fits perfectly 19:09 <+SirCmpwn> bson would be fine 19:09 < Yoshi2> I've read a bit into bson, it looks like it doesn't produce smaller data than json in a lot of cases 19:09 <+SirCmpwn> I have no complaints about bson 19:09 <+SirCmpwn> I still think it's bloody stupid for chat 19:09 <+SirCmpwn> but I can forgive sending it over a wire 19:09 < Drainedsoul> do you get mad about web servers sending JSON over the wire or is that different? 19:10 < dav1d> ah not for chat 19:10 < dav1d> but as nbt replacement 19:10 -!- Eloston [~Eloston@c-76-121-64-112.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #mcdevs 19:10 <+SirCmpwn> Drainedsoul: HTTP is pretty terrible, fyi 19:11 -!- Paprikachu [~Paprikach@77.116.131.244.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:12 < Drainedsoul> just its statelessness or the complexities of certain things beyond GET 19:14 -!- r04r|away is now known as r04r 19:15 <+SirCmpwn> revised to use NBT: https://gist.github.com/SirCmpwn/165de0e96a8ff2087b8f (cc Grum Dinnerbone) 19:15 < dx> "revised so that grum won't even think about rejecting it" 19:16 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: TAG_Compound(''): 2 entries 19:16 < dav1d> 2 entries is wrong? 19:16 <+SirCmpwn> both versions - NBT ( https://gist.github.com/SirCmpwn/165de0e96a8ff2087b8f ) and custom ( https://gist.github.com/SirCmpwn/165de0e96a8ff2087b8f ) are acceptable (cc Grum Dinnerbone) 19:16 <+SirCmpwn> dav1d: ty 19:16 < dx> ...not sure if i got the meaning of that sentence backwards, i'm not good at english 19:17 < dav1d> dx: ? 19:17 <+SirCmpwn> whoops, this is the "custom" format link: https://gist.github.com/SirCmpwn/165de0e96a8ff2087b8f/de29d28d22771be33d953dc7d050d243493db4d7 (cc Grum Dinnerbone) 19:17 < dx> dav1d: "won't even think about rejecting it", is this interpreted as "he will reject" or as "he won't"? 19:18 < dav1d> dx: I think "he won't" 19:18 <+SirCmpwn> anyone have any suggestions about the properties included? is there anything else that would be useful from the client or server? 19:18 < dx> dav1d: welp. 19:19 < dx> SirCmpwn: i don't see why can't we just keep using 0xfe and use the payload byte as flag... 19:20 <+SirCmpwn> because that's a shitty solution that doesn't fix the real problem 19:20 <+SirCmpwn> the existence of the shrodinger's byte is also pretty damn horrible 19:21 <+SirCmpwn> plus, servers will become pretty shitty when they have to support a dozen different packet formats based on that flag 19:21 < Drainedsoul> if you switch to a new packet you don't have to send/parse/deal with that one byte 19:21 < dx> it's not schrodinger byte anymore with this change, since it will be required 19:21 < Drainedsoul> and conditional packet parsing makes packet interpretation too tightly coupled with packet parsing 19:22 < Drainedsoul> a dictionary format allows seamless progression to newer versions, new fields can just be added and ignored by old clients 19:22 < dx> i'm perfectly fine with using a dict-like payload 19:22 <+SirCmpwn> dx: it will always be schrodinger's byte, old servers/clients don't send it 19:23 < Drainedsoul> yeah you're just further overloading the packet. Now there'll be three different ways to interpret it instead of just two. There should only be one. 19:23 <+SirCmpwn> there's also really no compelling reason *not* to use a new packet 19:23 < Drainedsoul> We have a field for specifying the structure of the data the follows -- the packet ID 19:23 <+SirCmpwn> but there are reasons, compelling or otherwise, *to* use it 19:24 < dav1d> :D 19:24 < dav1d> http://vp.dav1d.de/o1M?lt.d 19:24 < dav1d> using gl3n (math lib I wrote for opengl stuff) for homework :D 19:25 < Drainedsoul> I hope I get a chance to do that when I go back to school in the fall 19:25 < Drainedsoul> seeing how as I wrote a whole Unicode string and regular expression library :( 19:26 < dav1d> That reminds me that I wanted to add SIMD support :/ 19:27 <+SirCmpwn> I have so many bloody logs 19:28 <+SirCmpwn> no folder should have 13,622 files 19:28 < Drainedsoul> at my old job we had a mapping server with a folder with literally millions of files in it 19:28 < Drainedsoul> ...that was fun 19:28 <+AndrewPH> enter: hb.php cache folder 19:29 <+AndrewPH> back when it was heavily used (because i had it open for anybody to use), literally hundreds of thousands of files 19:29 <+AndrewPH> the first automated deletion took 4 hours to complete. 19:29 <+AndrewPH> or, well, probably closer to 1 19:29 <+AndrewPH> i just checked back after 4 hours 19:31 -!- eagleApex [eagleApex@hive76/member/eagleApex] has left #mcdevs [] 19:34 <+SirCmpwn> god fucking dammit, I should not have been gone when this shit was decided upon 19:34 <+SirCmpwn> md_5: you twat 19:36 <+SirCmpwn> two hours of arguing with Gr*m and someone finally gets him to listen, then md_5 proceeds to advise him to fix it in a stupid way 19:37 < Eloston> The server list ping? 19:37 <+SirCmpwn> yes 19:37 <+SirCmpwn> hey, D!nnerbone was here 19:38 < dav1d> D <3 19:38 < dav1d> massive loop unrolling at compile-time 19:44 <+SirCmpwn> wait, are they switching to utf32? 19:44 <+SirCmpwn> isn't utf-8 good enough for anyone 19:45 < Yoshi2> maybe because utf-8 does not have a fixed size and they don't want to deal with that 19:45 <+SirCmpwn> it's easy to deal with 19:46 <+SirCmpwn> don't write the string length in the packet, write the length of the final string in bytes 19:46 <+SirCmpwn> if they're going to switch character sets at all, it should be utf8 19:47 -!- erai [~erai@ip68-0-17-151.hr.hr.cox.net] has joined #mcdevs 19:47 < Yoshi2> hm, yeah, that would work 19:48 -!- erai [~erai@ip68-0-17-151.hr.hr.cox.net] has left #mcdevs [] 19:48 < Yoshi2> it would be very mysterious if they really decide to use utf32 instead of utf8 19:51 < Grum> SirCmpwn: advice to fix what in a stupid way? 19:51 < Eloston> server list ping 19:51 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: server list ping 19:51 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: have you seen either of the alternative suggestions I prepared? 19:52 < Grum> nope but i'm not sure how any of them would be backwards compatible 19:52 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: read: https://gist.github.com/SirCmpwn/165de0e96a8ff2087b8f/de29d28d22771be33d953dc7d050d243493db4d7 19:52 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: the other suggestion is similar, but uses NBT instead 19:53 < Grum> yeah not implementing a new packet 19:53 -!- SuinDraw [~NiaTeppel@WiseOS/Founder/NiaTeppelin] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:53 < Grum> also not backwards compat unless you implement dual-querying 19:53 < Grum> which lesucks 19:53 <+SirCmpwn> this is backwards compatible all the way to beta 1.8 19:53 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: the change that uses a plugin message packet is stupid 19:53 < Grum> oh the old server will not at all say: unknown packet, closing connection right? 19:54 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: it requires servers to wait a bit for a plugin message to potentially show up, which increases the reported ping time and breaks lots of well-designed networking code 19:54 <+SirCmpwn> that's exactly what the old server will say, Grum 19:54 < Grum> yeah and spam the logs 19:54 < Grum> also far far FAR more work than what we did now 19:55 <+SirCmpwn> weren't you the one saying that no one should be using old versions anyway 19:55 <+SirCmpwn> a small number of people will be affected by a little extra in the logs 19:55 < Grum> more than are affected now 19:55 < Grum> that makes this solution better 19:55 < Grum> still leaves plenty of room to do this though 19:56 <+SirCmpwn> any response to this? Grum: it requires servers to wait a bit for a plugin message to potentially show up, which increases the reported ping time and breaks lots of well-designed networking code 19:56 < Grum> it requires that of which servers? 19:56 <+SirCmpwn> "that" 19:57 <+SirCmpwn> waiting a bit for the plugin message? 19:57 < Grum> i think you completely misunderstand the issue 19:57 < Grum> the server is going to respond but it keeps reading on the socket 19:57 < Grum> it finds an unknown packet and instantly closes BEFORE it can send data back 19:58 < Grum> the 'real' solution is making it *not* read beyond the packet 19:58 < Grum> but we cannot adjust old code obviously 19:58 < Grum> so wrapping it into something that makes it 'just read it' is a nice trick to not make it fail 19:58 <+SirCmpwn> describe the new ping mechanism, I may not fully understand exactly what's being done here 19:59 < Grum> the new ping system sends a 0xFE with a '0x01' after it 19:59 < Grum> the 'ancient code' just responds on the 0xFF 19:59 < Grum> s/on/with/ 20:00 < Grum> the 'newercode' responds with the new response code (containing the version) 20:00 < Grum> but it also reads beyond the first packet 20:00 < Grum> as we now need to send the protocol version, host, port 20:00 <+SirCmpwn> these fields are included in 0xFE now? 20:00 <+SirCmpwn> will be, that is 20:00 < Grum> if we just have it tail the 0x01 it whines about invalid packet, closes the connection and you never get response 20:01 < Grum> yes 20:01 <+SirCmpwn> in what format? 20:01 <+SirCmpwn> just like normal old packet fields? 20:03 < dav1d> Grum: why not use nbt for the additional data? 20:03 < Grum> so now we send: 0xFE 0x01 followed by 0xFA 0x00 0x00 ShortLength and then the extra data 20:03 < Grum> dav1d: why would we ever use nbt for version, host, port? O.o 20:03 <+SirCmpwn> "the extra data" 20:03 < Eloston> SirCmpwn: So if I understand correctly from your proposal, you will try to do a server list ping with a 0xF0, and if the server doesn't like you, you will be disconnected and then the client will try to do a 0xFE like normal? 20:03 <+sadimusi> what happens when an old client pings a new server? 20:03 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: because you can extend upon it later 20:04 < Grum> who cares for that 20:04 < Grum> we'll overhaul it next time 20:04 <+SirCmpwn> Eloston: correct 20:04 < dav1d> Grum: you can dynamically extend the information sent and it will always be backwards compatible 20:04 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: god dammit 20:04 <+SirCmpwn> overhaul it this time 20:04 < Grum> bye.\ 20:04 < Eloston> SirCmpwn: I like your proposal 20:04 <+SirCmpwn> a half-assed solution is worse for everyone in the long run 20:05 < Grum> you have absolutely no idea what is 'worse' in the long run 20:05 < Grum> you do not even know what is planned for the long run 20:05 < Grum> so how do you even *try* to claim you know *anything* 20:05 <+SirCmpwn> because I have to deal with your shitty protocol all the bloody time and I know it better than most 20:06 < Grum> indeed, its shitty, i do not want to fuck around in that code at all 20:06 <+SirCmpwn> I can't claim to know your long term plans, but I can apply logic to the situation and get a pretty good idea of how this will develop in the future 20:06 < Grum> you got your feature, less whining 20:06 < Grum> i do not really care for the current protocol state 20:06 < Grum> its just broken 20:06 < Drainedsoul> Re: The above, at least UTF-32 has some redeeming qualities, unlike UTF-16/UCS-2 20:06 <+SirCmpwn> you guys have said you'll overhaul it for the past 11 months or so 20:06 < Grum> yeah and its on the bottom of the list because everything else has to be handled first 20:07 < Grum> because the protocol impacts *everything* 20:07 <+SirCmpwn> and as such, you should consider changing parts of the shitty protocol as temporary fixes, at the very least 20:07 <+SirCmpwn> seeing as it's been 11 months and it's going to be a lot more 20:07 < Grum> why? its a ton of work without any benefits because we do not evne attempt to keep it 20:08 <+SirCmpwn> how long do you think minecraft will be alive for? 20:08 < ShaRose> curious, why does backwards compat matter 20:08 <+SirCmpwn> by the time you finish, half the community may well be gone 20:08 < ShaRose> does mojang even support old versions? 20:08 < Grum> SirCmpwn: then we'll do it for the grateful half still around 20:08 < Grum> feel free to leave 20:08 <+SirCmpwn> is it really that difficult to implement these things? md_5 has talked about dozens of "10 line patches" 20:09 < Grum> yeah and how wrong was he 20:09 <+SirCmpwn> he did it himself, changed your actual code 20:09 < Grum> about .... 500% wrong on files and ~600% wrong on affected lines 20:09 < Grum> yeah and it was broken 20:09 <+ammar2> not this patch, how about packet length headers. 20:10 <+ammar2> he has that as a 10 or so line change 20:10 < Grum> never. 20:11 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: why don't you guys stop doing updates for a while and just rewrite everything, then, if the codebase is really this horrible 20:11 <+SirCmpwn> youtubers can survive for a while without pandering 20:12 < Grum> because it will take a year+ to do that? 20:12 <+SirCmpwn> so take a year+ 20:12 < Grum> which will do what good? 20:12 < dav1d> that would be wrong 20:12 < Grum> a good big bang implementation? 20:12 < Grum> dont think i didnt suggest that a year ago 20:12 < Grum> it wont work 20:12 < dav1d> progressivly improve the protocol while you move on 20:12 < Grum> we'll do the things in one go 20:13 <+SirCmpwn> I can't think of a single project here that would have any trouble fixing any of the things we've asked you to fix 20:13 < Grum> which means it'll have to wait a bit 20:13 <+SirCmpwn> but you've said all of them are massive changes 20:13 <+SirCmpwn> your codebase must be *really, really* bad 20:13 < Grum> SirCmpwn: i couldn't give a fuck about what you think about what we do 20:13 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: notch. 20:13 < dav1d> :D 20:13 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: yeah, we can tell 20:13 < Grum> i'm getting seriously tired from the whining 20:13 < dav1d> pssht 20:13 < dav1d> we get utf-8! 20:13 < Grum> maybe 20:13 <+SirCmpwn> I thought we were getting utf32 20:13 < dav1d> :) 20:14 < dav1d> I already took that as a yes 20:14 < Grum> why the fuck would we ever do utf32? O.o 20:14 <+SirCmpwn> with json inside, too 20:14 < Grum> SirCmpwn: sigh 20:14 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: was reading logs earlier that talked about doing utf32 20:14 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: no you're wrong 20:14 <+SirCmpwn> but hey, if you're not doing that, great 20:14 < dav1d> that was never discussed 20:14 < Grum> if you want me to become as Dinnerbone and jsut ignoring this whole channel, feel free to keep up this attitude 20:14 < dav1d> Grum: :( 20:14 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: to be honest, it almost feels like you do anyway 20:14 < Grum> i'm perfectly happy just /detaching the fuck out of this channel 20:14 <+SirCmpwn> ignoring us with style, I suppose 20:14 < Drainedsoul> I was about to say 20:14 < Drainedsoul> what would the difference between that and what you're doing now be? 20:15 < Grum> but sure, SirCmpwn, if you know it all that much better 20:15 < Grum> can you move to sweden? 20:15 <+SirCmpwn> I don't know anything about your codebase, yes 20:15 <+SirCmpwn> but I know a hell of a lot about your protocol and other technical details 20:15 <+SirCmpwn> don't pretend we don't 20:16 < Drainedsoul> what's switching to UTF-8? I missed that 20:16 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: nothing, that is just my hope 20:16 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: I wouldn't want to in any case, Mojang isn't as lucrative as my current job 20:16 < Grum> ok then i'd suggest you just tone down. 20:16 < Drainedsoul> or what? 20:16 * SirCmpwn sighs 20:17 <+SirCmpwn> this is why we dislike mojang here, you have a terribly designed game and listen to none of our feedback on it. Then you get pissy when we call you out on it. 20:17 < Grum> SirCmpwn: stop pretending you 'know it all' while you clearly do not. 20:17 < Grum> dude, i do nothing else than listening to feedback and whining from users/people who claim to know it better 20:17 < Grum> meanwhile i'm also one of the few actually working on improving it 20:17 <+SirCmpwn> well, listen and then discard 20:18 < Drainedsoul> listening to feedback and whining from users is like 20:18 < Drainedsoul> being a Software Engineer 20:18 < Grum> because you ahve fucking retarded arguments >.> 20:18 < Grum> 'we need it because we need it' ..... 20:18 < Grum> gooderested argument ever 20:18 <+SirCmpwn> keep in mind, this channel doesn't really use the vanilla software, vanilla improvements that don't affect its external appearance are not important to us 20:18 <+SirCmpwn> our interests (and thus our complaints) lie elsewhere 20:18 <+ammar2> 'we want it because it makes our lives easier' 20:18 <+ammar2> 'but what will vanilla do with it' 20:18 <+SirCmpwn> we give you plenty of examples of use cases for everything we ask for 20:19 < Grum> yeah, and now you have to get it through your thick skull that doing changes 'just because you want them' is NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN 20:19 <+SirCmpwn> and you respond with the same shit every time, asking for a vanilla usecase 20:19 < Grum> yes, and you cant give me any 20:19 < Grum> so fuck your bad ideas 20:19 < Grum> give me incentive to do it and i'll consider it 20:19 <+SirCmpwn> it's not all about vanilla 20:19 < Grum> it actually is 20:19 < dav1d> well actually it is 20:19 < Drainedsoul> I don't see how good/proper design is a "bad idea" 20:19 < Eloston> Then why not just change vanilla if there are no vanilla use cases 20:19 < dav1d> they make money out of it... 20:19 <+SirCmpwn> tell me, Grum, what percentage of severs use the vanilla server 20:20 < Grum> tell me what percentace of servers use bukkit servers 20:20 < dav1d> bukkit is basically vanilla 20:20 <+SirCmpwn> how many users go through bungeecord, md_5? half a million? 20:20 < Grum> i know its far more than anything else out there 20:20 < Grum> yeah, how many users KNOW they go through bungeecord? 20:20 < Grum> 'omg i can proxy the world -- so impressivemuch' 20:20 <+SirCmpwn> they don't need to, why is that important 20:20 < Grum> >.> 20:20 < Grum> oh ... and offline mode crap 20:20 < Drainedsoul> that's like asking how many users know they're getting served content by nginx instead of apache 20:20 < Grum> superbly done 20:20 <+SirCmpwn> ^ 20:21 <+SirCmpwn> what offline mode crap 20:21 <+SirCmpwn> we need offline mode behind our proxies to get everything working well 20:21 < Grum> which is what i am saying 20:21 <+ammar2> s/well/at all/ 20:21 < Grum> also nto supported 20:21 < Grum> as long as you keep doing that, no more 'stuff you want'. 20:21 < Grum> enjoy. 20:21 <+SirCmpwn> we do authentication ourselves 20:21 <+SirCmpwn> it's not like we actually run in online mode from an external perspective 20:21 <+SirCmpwn> offline mode* 20:22 <+SirCmpwn> it's because we have no choice, not because we want users logging in with offline mode 20:22 <+SirCmpwn> there is literally no other way to do it 20:22 < Grum> maybe you are doing it wrong. 20:22 < Eloston> You know Grum, if you keep this up, eventually someone will create an open-source equivalent of Minecraft 20:22 < Grum> Eloston: and be number 20? 20:22 <+SirCmpwn> suggest an alternative means, Grum 20:22 < Grum> go ahead O.o 20:22 < Yoshi2> Eloston: people are already doing that 20:23 < Grum> SirCmpwn: not doing it? saves me whining in here too! benefits allaboard 20:23 < Yoshi2> open source, and closed source 20:23 <+SirCmpwn> we need proxies because your server is so shit, Grum 20:23 <+SirCmpwn> remember, no matter what you say, bungeecord supports 1.5k servers and half a million users 20:23 < Grum> then why are you surprised we don't want to do small incremental breaking changes? 20:23 < Grum> are you that stupid? O.o 20:23 <+SirCmpwn> you do them anyway, Grum 20:23 <+SirCmpwn> yeesh 20:24 < Grum> yes .. because we *have* to 20:24 <+SirCmpwn> and if you were more open with us, it'd be a lot easier to do our jobs 20:24 < Grum> but that implies you think we care for 'your jobs' .. 20:24 < Grum> i guess we do, as much as you care for mojang. 20:24 < dav1d> Eloston: minetest is probably the best known 20:24 <+SirCmpwn> our "jobs" support a half a million fucking users, Grum 20:24 < dav1d> and Mojang supports the other 11million 20:24 < Grum> only half a million, must be shit then. 20:24 < Grum> even bukkit supported far mroe 20:25 < Grum> SirCmpwn: its really simple, you get what you sow 20:25 <+ammar2> well yes, a proxying solution and a server replacement aren't exactly in the same league 20:25 <+SirCmpwn> shall we just inform these half million users about how much you care for them, then? 20:25 < Grum> you are a giant arrogant pain in the ass that has no respect whatsoever towards the people that might actually be able to help you out 20:25 < Grum> meanwhile you go around whining that we dont and demand that we do 20:25 < Grum> are you *stupid*? 20:26 <+SirCmpwn> you're suprised that I'm upset that you don't give a shit about us? 20:26 < Grum> that is YOUR conclusion 20:26 <+SirCmpwn> that's your bloody conclusion 20:26 <+SirCmpwn> let me read up and find that quote 20:26 < Grum> meanhwile i wasted a lot of time actually implementing some of your requests 20:26 < Grum> but nooooo i should have wasted more time and break it harder and introduce yet another packet and spam peoples logs 20:26 < Grum> awesome idea 20:27 <+SirCmpwn> nothing is wrong with my suggested implementation, save for the psuedoproblem of spamming people's logs 20:27 < Grum> i just point out that that is wrong 20:27 <+SirCmpwn> do most server owners even read their logs? 20:27 < Grum> if there is a solution that doesn't do that it's clearly beneficial. 20:28 < dexter0> What about introducing the packet but not using it for a few versions? By the time you flipped the switch, the number of ppl affected would be low. 20:28 < Grum> also far easier to implement. 20:28 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: and your solution introduces the other problems we already discussed 20:28 <+SirCmpwn> it's not like it's all benefits 20:28 < Grum> it has no problems? 20:28 < Grum> you say the roundtrip time changes, it doesnt 20:28 <+SirCmpwn> if I tell you them again, will you remember this time? 20:28 < Grum> ........ 20:29 <+SirCmpwn> I think this'll be the third time 20:29 < Grum> i think i understand why dinnerbone is ignoring this channel. 20:29 < Grum> and why you are banned from various others 20:30 <+SirCmpwn> is it really that hard, adding new packets 20:30 <+SirCmpwn> you added two from 1.5->1.6 20:30 < Grum> is it more work than what i just did? yes 20:30 <+SirCmpwn> I don't understand why you're so against doing changes like this 20:30 <+SirCmpwn> what is it, an hour at worst? 20:30 < Grum> will it create spam in logs where that shouldn't be needed? yes 20:31 <+sadimusi> SirCmpwn: that's enough now. just be quite for a few minutes 20:31 < Grum> because i can spend that hour working on all the shit you claim we do not do 20:31 -!- jan64 [5f312d09@gateway/web/freenode/ip.95.49.45.9] has joined #mcdevs 20:32 < jan64> maybe, a weird question 20:32 < dav1d> A topic change, yes please! 20:32 < dav1d> Hello jan64 20:32 < jan64> but, is there a way to disable client server communiaction if it's happening without encryption? 20:32 < Grum> seriously; you might get really popular with your buttbuddies; but screaming shit like: <+SirCmpwn> I argued with Gr.m and D.nnerbone at length about how stupid the change is 20:32 < Grum> is just beyond retarded 20:33 < dav1d> jan64: it should always happen encrypted 20:33 <+SirCmpwn> jan64: I'm not sure I understand your question 20:33 < dav1d> jan64: assuming you're in online mode 20:33 <+SirCmpwn> jan64: are you a proxy? 20:33 < jan64> i'm talking about bots that connect without encryption & authentication 20:33 < jan64> nope 20:33 < jan64> as much as i can tell 20:34 <+SirCmpwn> it sounds like something specific to your implementation 20:34 <+SirCmpwn> you need to somehow shut off your protocol parsing? 20:34 < jan64> no 20:34 <+SirCmpwn> what do you mean by "disable client server communication" 20:34 < dav1d> jan64: are you using the official server? 20:34 < jan64> yes 20:34 < jan64> sec 20:34 < jan64> there is this bit in wiki 20:34 < dav1d> jan64: is it in online mode? 20:34 < jan64> Paraphrase (with no authentication and no encryption): send a 0x02, get a 0xFD, send a 0xCD, get a 0x01, get a 0x06. Then you'll eventually get a 0x0D, and that's when the game really begins. 20:34 < jan64> nope 20:35 < dav1d> jan64: well then the server doesn't force the encryption 20:35 < jan64> Is there a way to disable that? like, i have offline server, and normal clients shouldn't have problems with encryption, while bots do have some 20:35 < Grum> nope 20:35 < jan64> I want to force encryption, but no authentication 20:35 < dav1d> jan64: there is no way to distinguish between bot and client in offline mode 20:35 < Grum> and wont ever have unless you start messing around yourself 20:35 <+SirCmpwn> jan64: you need a custom server for that 20:35 < dav1d> ^ 20:35 < jan64> ugh 20:35 <+SirCmpwn> jan64: or a modded one, I suppose 20:35 <+SirCmpwn> but it is possible 20:36 < jan64> hmmm, thanks 20:36 <+SirCmpwn> however, we do not support piracy here, and it sounds like you're shooting for that 20:36 <+SirCmpwn> why do you need this? 20:36 < jan64> out of curiosity 20:36 < jan64> like, why would You even need not to support encryption 20:36 < dav1d> awesome: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ycr4N1jb_g D repl :) 20:37 < jan64> if all of Your clients have it implemented 20:37 <+SirCmpwn> others may help you, but I won't unless I have a tangible and legitimate use case 20:37 < Grum> SirCmpwn: its so much fun to see you shoot an issue down the same way as i do. 20:37 < jan64> eh, You are just covering Your laziness/lack of knowledge with official responses 20:37 < Grum> 'has no usecase, if oyu have one go ask again' 20:37 < jan64> anyways 20:37 < jan64> Cya 20:37 -!- jan64 [5f312d09@gateway/web/freenode/ip.95.49.45.9] has quit [] 20:37 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: I only do that when I suspect piracy is involved 20:38 < Grum> how is a server in offlinemode piracy? 20:38 <+SirCmpwn> it might not be 20:38 <+SirCmpwn> but I'd like to hear more before I offer assistance 20:39 <+SirCmpwn> eh, You are just covering Your laziness/lack of knowledge with official responses 20:39 <+SirCmpwn> hah 20:41 < barneygale> jesus christ SirCmpwn 20:41 <+SirCmpwn> barneygale: hmm? 20:41 < barneygale> sorry I was reading scrollback 20:42 < barneygale> about 20% into that argument you should have said "this obviously isn't going to happen" and quit. wasn't your ban reason last time for harassing mojang devs? 20:42 <+SirCmpwn> sadimusi asked me to keep it down for a while, speak with me privately if you'd like to 20:42 <+SirCmpwn> and no, it wasn't 20:43 < Grum> lol he got banned before? in here? 20:43 < Grum> awesome, time to request another. 20:43 < dav1d> the reason: pbunny, lol 20:43 * dav1d loves that topic 20:44 -!- InfinitePulsing [~Coon@pool-98-113-216-78.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #mcdevs 20:44 -!- InfinitePulsing [~Coon@pool-98-113-216-78.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has left #mcdevs [] 20:44 -!- InfinitePulsing [~Coon@pool-98-113-216-78.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #mcdevs 21:04 < Grum> time to permanently just idle in this channel. bye. 21:05 < dexter0> :( 21:05 -!- BizarreCake [~BizarreCa@46.121.251.157] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:06 < dav1d> too bad 21:06 < dexter0> Grum: it's sad to hear the rendering engine rewrite is not going as well as hoped. 21:15 -!- InfinitePulsing [~Coon@pool-98-113-216-78.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:20 -!- InfinitePulsing [~Coon@pool-98-113-216-78.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #mcdevs 21:21 -!- erai [~erai@ip68-0-17-151.hr.hr.cox.net] has joined #mcdevs 21:24 -!- erai [~erai@ip68-0-17-151.hr.hr.cox.net] has left #mcdevs [] 21:25 -!- InfinitePulsing [~Coon@pool-98-113-216-78.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:25 -!- InfinitePulsing [~Coon@pool-98-113-216-78.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #mcdevs 21:46 -!- InfinitePulsing [~Coon@pool-98-113-216-78.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:07 -!- TRocket [~TRocket@82-69-14-167.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:07 -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has joined #mcdevs 22:09 -!- barneygale [~barneygal@cpc18-sotn9-2-0-cust33.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:10 -!- mappum [~mappum@c-67-170-21-29.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #mcdevs 22:10 -!- Zartec [~Thunderbi@95-89-157-17-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Zartec] 22:12 -!- InfinitePulsing [~Coon@pool-98-113-216-78.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #mcdevs 22:13 -!- Socolin [~bertrand@AMontsouris-653-1-47-104.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #mcdevs [] 22:13 -!- mode/#mcdevs [+o TkTech] by ChanServ 22:13 -!- mode/#mcdevs [+b *!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn] by TkTech 22:13 -!- SirCmpwn was kicked from #mcdevs by TkTech [Nope.] 22:13 -!- levifig [~levifig@spwn.co] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:13 -!- mode/#mcdevs [-o TkTech] by ChanServ 22:14 -!- TRocket [~TRocket@82-69-14-167.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #mcdevs 22:14 -!- levifig [~levifig@spwn.co] has joined #mcdevs 22:18 -!- Cay [~OlofLarss@s83-177-171-150.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:23 < TkTech> Every so often reading the backlog makes me very depressed. This is one of those times. 22:29 -!- InfinitePulsing [~Coon@pool-98-113-216-78.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:31 -!- InfinitePulsing [~Coon@pool-98-113-216-78.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #mcdevs 22:31 -!- edlothiol [~edlothiol@2a02:810b:80c0:27:f2de:f1ff:fe78:51cf] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:35 -!- InfinitePulsing [~Coon@pool-98-113-216-78.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:35 -!- InfinitePulsing [~Coon@pool-98-113-216-78.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #mcdevs 22:35 -!- eddyb [~eddy@unaffiliated/eddyb] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 22:35 -!- fortytwo [~thomas@who.let.this.bloody.dropbear.in] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 22:36 -!- InfinitePulsing [~Coon@pool-98-113-216-78.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:36 -!- InfinitePulsing [~Coon@pool-98-113-216-78.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #mcdevs 22:42 -!- InfinitePulsing [~Coon@pool-98-113-216-78.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has left #mcdevs [] 22:42 -!- InfinitePulsing [~Coon@pool-98-113-216-78.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #mcdevs 22:45 -!- TRocket [~TRocket@82-69-14-167.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:56 -!- InfinitePulsing [~Coon@pool-98-113-216-78.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:56 -!- Morrolan [Morrolan@morrolan.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:57 < AlphaBlend> dexter0: Not something they can really just do 22:57 < dexter0> Of course, that's why they brought in contractors. 22:58 < AlphaBlend> contractors? like paul? 22:59 -!- Ojel [521c6fa4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.28.111.164] has joined #mcdevs 22:59 < dexter0> Who is paul? 22:59 < AlphaBlend> paul spooner, IIRC, the guy that made the trees or something 22:59 < AlphaBlend> says on the wiki 23:00 < dexter0> no idea if he was/is one of them. 23:00 < AlphaBlend> there's a folder in the .jar called paulscode 23:00 -!- Morrolan [Morrolan@morrolan.ch] has joined #mcdevs 23:06 -!- InfinitePulsing [~Coon@pool-98-113-216-78.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #mcdevs 23:08 < Yoshi2> paulscode is something else, I think it contains the sound library used by minecraft 23:12 -!- InfinitePulsing [~Coon@pool-98-113-216-78.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:15 -!- InfinitePulsing [~Coon@pool-98-113-216-78.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #mcdevs 23:17 < Yoshi2> yep, my memory served me right: http://www.paulscode.com/forum/index.php?topic=34.0 23:17 < Yoshi2> that Paul is called Paul Lamb, no idea about Paul Spooner though 23:24 < Yoshi2> ah, Paul Spooner wrote the forester tool which created naturalistic trees in the older minecraft versions, and he also created the fancy trees with branches that minecraft has been using for a while now 23:33 -!- InfinitePulsing [~Coon@pool-98-113-216-78.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:34 -!- InfinitePulsing [~Coon@pool-98-113-216-78.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #mcdevs 23:56 -!- Morrolan [Morrolan@morrolan.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:59 -!- erai [~erai@ip68-0-17-151.hr.hr.cox.net] has joined #mcdevs --- Day changed jeu. juin 27 2013 00:12 -!- Ojel [521c6fa4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.28.111.164] has quit [K-Lined] 00:18 -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:25 -!- SpaceManiac [~SpaceMani@r74-192-152-131.gtwncmta01.grtntx.tl.dh.suddenlink.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:32 -!- Yoshi2 [~chatzilla@xdsl-87-78-31-144.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130511120803]] 00:32 -!- Yoshi2 [~Yoshi2@xdsl-87-78-31-144.netcologne.de] has joined #mcdevs 00:36 -!- r04r is now known as r04r|away 00:36 -!- InfinitePulsing [~Coon@pool-98-113-216-78.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:37 -!- InfinitePulsing [~Coon@pool-98-113-216-78.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #mcdevs 00:52 -!- Yoshi2 [~Yoshi2@xdsl-87-78-31-144.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:54 < AlphaBlend> gr*m, what's with the ID gap in the block IDs for 1.6? 00:54 -!- Yoshi2 [~Yoshi2@xdsl-87-78-172-219.netcologne.de] has joined #mcdevs 00:55 <+sadimusi> there is an ID gap? 00:55 <+sadimusi> ah, you mean 160 - 169? 01:00 < AlphaBlend> hmmm 01:00 < AlphaBlend> let me see 01:01 < AlphaBlend> yep 01:01 < AlphaBlend> that gap 01:01 < AlphaBlend> i almost feel as if that means something is going to happen soon with IDs.... 01:01 < AlphaBlend> xD 01:01 <+sadimusi> it looks more like each colored block had it's own id to me 01:02 -!- timeshifter [~David@unaffiliated/timeshifter] has joined #mcdevs 01:02 < timeshifter> what's the bukkitdevs irc server again? 01:02 <+sadimusi> esper I guess 01:02 < timeshifter> thought so 01:03 < AlphaBlend> wait what? 01:03 < AlphaBlend> you mean stained glass? 01:03 < AlphaBlend> err 01:03 < AlphaBlend> stained clay* 01:03 < AlphaBlend> well IDs are going to be deprecated, so that wouldn't be a reality at all 01:04 -!- Sanky [~SankyZNC@unaffiliated/sanky] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:06 <+sadimusi> probably not, that would be a terrible idea and the hole isn't big enough 01:08 <+sadimusi> burger is slowly starting to work again :) http://cl.ly/PuCp 01:13 < AlphaBlend> yeah 01:13 < AlphaBlend> but there is the 4096 block ID support, but it's only 256 blocks right now 01:13 < AlphaBlend> i wonder what's going to come of that, or if it's just going to get dropped like a hot brick 01:14 < dexter0> IDs were not going to be deprecated, meta data was 01:14 < AlphaBlend> That's yours? 01:19 -!- SpaceManiac [~SpaceMani@r74-192-152-131.gtwncmta01.grtntx.tl.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #mcdevs 01:22 -!- timeshifter [~David@unaffiliated/timeshifter] has left #mcdevs [] 01:34 -!- Sanky [~SankyZNC@unaffiliated/sanky] has joined #mcdevs 01:35 -!- Eloston [~Eloston@c-76-121-64-112.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has left #mcdevs [] 01:49 -!- electromatter [~erai@ip68-0-17-151.hr.hr.cox.net] has joined #mcdevs 01:49 -!- erai [~erai@ip68-0-17-151.hr.hr.cox.net] has left #mcdevs [] 01:51 -!- electromatter [~erai@ip68-0-17-151.hr.hr.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:28 < InfinitePulsing> Can anyone help me by uploading the 1.6 jar? I don't have a premium minecraft account, and it would help. 02:40 -!- cat_ [~Coon@pool-98-113-216-78.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #mcdevs 02:40 -!- InfinitePulsing [~Coon@pool-98-113-216-78.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:40 -!- cat_ [~Coon@pool-98-113-216-78.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:43 -!- InfinitePulsing [~Coon@pool-98-113-216-78.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #mcdevs 02:43 < InfinitePulsing> Anyone get my message.. think I lagged out 02:48 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2050 6 files : Split off EmptyMapGen into its own class, to simplify /setgen syntax 02:50 < InfinitePulsing> Nevermind, found the url. 03:20 -!- SpaceManiac [~SpaceMani@r74-192-152-131.gtwncmta01.grtntx.tl.dh.suddenlink.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:29 < InfinitePulsing> >.> Infinite silence.. 03:31 < dexter0> well, the most vocal member of the channel was just banned, so…yeah. 03:31 -!- Kep [~Kep@50.46.235.80] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:33 < Drainedsoul> who was banned? 03:33 < dexter0> guess 03:34 < Drainedsoul> just scrolled up and found it, why 03:35 < dexter0> for not knowing when to walk away from an argument I wager. 03:36 -!- dexter0 [~dexter0@c-24-23-138-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: exit(0);] 03:36 < Drainedsoul> I guess licking the boots of Mojang devs is the appropriate/endorsed course of action 03:38 -!- TomyLobo [~TomyLobo@91-65-210-133-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Standby mode...] 03:45 -!- dexter0 [~dexter0@c-24-23-138-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #mcdevs 03:49 < InfinitePulsing> I am hoping it is the person I'm thinking of. 03:49 < InfinitePulsing> Is it Mr. Oh-holier-than-thou 03:50 < InfinitePulsing> So it IS him. 03:50 < InfinitePulsing> I'm happy . 03:51 -!- ranie [~rramiso@124.105.60.242] has joined #mcdevs 03:55 -!- cat_ [~Coon@pool-98-113-216-78.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #mcdevs 03:55 -!- InfinitePulsing [~Coon@pool-98-113-216-78.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:04 -!- cat_ is now known as InfinitePulsing 04:04 -!- InfinitePulsing [~Coon@pool-98-113-216-78.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has left #mcdevs [] 04:04 -!- InfinitePulsing [~Coon@pool-98-113-216-78.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #mcdevs 04:04 -!- ranie [~rramiso@124.105.60.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:04 -!- dexter0 [~dexter0@c-24-23-138-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: exit(0);] 04:06 -!- Drainedsoul_2 [~Drainedso@mail.rleahy.ca] has joined #mcdevs 04:08 < InfinitePulsing> Drained. 04:08 -!- InfinitePulsing [~Coon@pool-98-113-216-78.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has left #mcdevs [] 04:08 -!- InfinitePulsing [~Coon@pool-98-113-216-78.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #mcdevs 04:09 -!- InfinitePulsing [~Coon@pool-98-113-216-78.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has left #mcdevs [] 04:09 -!- InfinitePulsing [~Coon@pool-98-113-216-78.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #mcdevs 04:09 -!- InfinitePulsing [~Coon@pool-98-113-216-78.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:10 -!- InfinitePulsing [~Coon@pool-98-113-216-78.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #mcdevs 04:10 < InfinitePulsing> This internet.. 04:10 -!- InfinitePulsing [~Coon@pool-98-113-216-78.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has left #mcdevs [] 04:10 -!- InfinitePulsing [~Coon@pool-98-113-216-78.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #mcdevs 04:10 < InfinitePulsing> Oh so it wasn't lag. 04:10 < InfinitePulsing> My scrollbar was just up a little. 04:17 -!- ranie [~rramiso@124.6.182.55] has joined #mcdevs 04:18 -!- SpaceManiac [~SpaceMani@r74-192-152-131.gtwncmta01.grtntx.tl.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #mcdevs 04:21 -!- dexter0 [~dexter0@c-24-23-138-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #mcdevs 04:22 -!- dexter0 [~dexter0@c-24-23-138-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:23 -!- dexter0 [~dexter0@c-24-23-138-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #mcdevs 04:30 -!- ranie [~rramiso@124.6.182.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:34 -!- Drainedsoul_2 [~Drainedso@mail.rleahy.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:34 -!- Kyle_ is now known as Kyle 04:38 -!- InfinitePulsing [~Coon@pool-98-113-216-78.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:49 -!- ranie [~rramiso@124.105.60.242] has joined #mcdevs 04:52 < TkTech> Drainedsoul: No, it isn't, and there have been plenty of debates over the last three years. 04:52 < TkTech> Drainedsoul: An all-out Who-Can-Bitch-The-Most festival with ANYONE is not appropriate for ANY irc channel. 04:53 < TkTech> sadimusi: Fantastic! Are you going to add the IRC notifications back? :) (subtle nudge) 04:57 -!- Yoshi2 [~Yoshi2@xdsl-87-78-172-219.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:05 -!- InfinitePulsing [~Coon@pool-98-113-216-78.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #mcdevs