13:43 < TobiX> AnotherOne: Like the RegEx for validating mail addresses? http://ex-parrot.com/~pdw/Mail-RFC822-Address.html
13:55 < AnotherOne> yep, i saw this one:)
13:56 < AnotherOne> an example of overkill
13:57 < dav1d> overkill?
13:57 < dav1d> whatever..
13:57 < AnotherOne> mb wrong phrase
13:57 < AnotherOne> i meant it is a bad use of regex
13:58 < AnotherOne> there are other ways to validate email
13:59 < unnicked593> i.e. loops
14:03 < SinZ> That is a place where regex is a good use, what you on, boi
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14:04 < dav1d> because an email is regular...
14:06 < SinZ> http://pastebin.com/nsWFf83f
14:08 < dx> i read "nsfw" in the url
14:08 < dx> close enough
14:08 < AnotherOne> lol
14:08 < SinZ> it aint safe away from work either
14:09 < dx> also, that email regexp is not a "bad use", it's just that the RFC822 definition is absurdly complex
14:09 < dx> nobody wrote that regexp by hand so it doesn't matter, it's like a different way of generating a parser
14:09 < SinZ> any definition is absurdly complex
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14:10 < SinZ> the definition of a meter is a fun read
14:10 < dx> heh
14:10 < SinZ> the length of the path travelled by light in vacuum during a time interval of 1/299,792,458 of a second.
14:10 < dav1d> lol
14:11 < dav1d> just read it on wikipedia^^
14:11 < dx> that sounds straightforward to me...
14:11 < dx> like a fraction of "light years"
14:12 < SinZ> Kilogram is an odd one, where it is defined to be the same weight as the IPK
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14:12 < SinZ> the pound is defined as exactly 0.45359237 kg
14:14 < AnotherOne> british measuring system is stupid
14:14 < dx> you can define that based on speed of light too
14:15 < dav1d> they had to get a constant value which did fit the current meter already
14:15 < dav1d> (my guess)
14:15 < Fador> http://www.wimp.com/roundestobject/ <- kilogram
14:15 < dav1d> light in vacuum is constant, no matter what happens, and that magic number did fit the meter 
14:16 < AnotherOne> because universe is smart
14:17 < AnotherOne> do you believe in god?
14:18 < dx> wot
14:24 < AnotherOne> so do you?
14:25 < SinZ> only way to believe in god is also believing in the bible, and the bible is full of bs
14:25 < SinZ> or atleast has alot of it
14:25 < dav1d> Fador: interesting, thanks
14:25 < dav1d> 2 mins left :D
14:26 < AnotherOne> SinZ: not true
14:27 < AnotherOne> god != christian god
14:27 < dav1d> this is #mcdevs, the only god here is notch
14:28 < SinZ> and Jeb
14:28 < SinZ> Dinnerbro is still a demigod iirc
14:28 < dav1d> Jeb would be like Jesus
14:28 < AnotherOne> i dont want to live in world with these gods
14:28 < dav1d> and Dinnerbro the holy ghost
14:28 < dav1d> AnotherOne: then /part provides the tool
14:28 < dav1d> to leave this world
14:28 < AnotherOne> wat?
14:29 < SinZ> MC universe has notch as the god, jeb can be jesus, why not
14:29 < SinZ> Dinnerbro and gurm being demi-gods
14:29 < AnotherOne> i want warhammer chaos gods in mc
14:30 < SinZ> Thats evilseph, we don't mention him
14:30 < dav1d> he is a dick
14:31 < AnotherOne> "i will not call that name, or wine in this room will turn to vinegar"
14:31 < SinZ> iirc the potter universe calls him the dark lord
14:32 < dx> wait does this mean evilseph is a fictional character
14:32 < dx> that would explain a lot of things
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14:40 < dx> also, if AnotherOne can bring the topic of religion out of nowhere, i believe it's completely okay for me to ask this:
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14:41 < dx> why is there no command line tool to use ioctl(), and apparently i have to compile a C program every time i want to use one of them?
14:51 < AnotherOne> make it yourself
14:52 < dx> i'm asking "why" because there might be a technical reason for it
14:53 < AnotherOne> hm... what are the problems for you to make it?
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17:09 < thaddcorbett> Hey guys. Anyone around able to give me some simple mincraft advice?
17:09 <+SirCmpwn> thaddcorbett: just ask your question.
17:10 < thaddcorbett> I went off looking for pumpkins and carrots and i wrote down the wrong numbers when i thought I wrote down the corrdinates of my home... and now i'm lost. 
17:10 < thaddcorbett> I have used beds in my journey 
17:10 < thaddcorbett> so if i die i'm not going to end up at my origonal home..
17:11 <+SirCmpwn> this is the wrong channel
17:11 <+SirCmpwn> go to #minecraft
17:11 < thaddcorbett> Serious? sorry i must have read the channel name wrong.
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17:11 <+SirCmpwn> this is for minecraft development, people who write software related to minecraft
17:11 <+sadimusi> SirCmpwn: do you always have to be so hostile?
17:11 <+SirCmpwn> sadimusi: that was not hostile at all, it was just straightforward
17:12 <+sadimusi> you could have helped him in two sentences
17:12 <+SirCmpwn> I have no clue how he's supposed to find his home now
17:13 <+sadimusi> the world's spawn point might be a good place to start looking
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17:13 <+SirCmpwn> well, in any case, I didn't know offhand, no one else appeared to be around, and now he's in #minecraft, who will tell him that
17:14 <+SirCmpwn> "why do you have to be so hostile" -> why do you assume I'm being hostile?
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17:16 <+sadimusi> this might have been a light case, but you're often scaring off new visitors
17:16 <+SirCmpwn> I have done no such thing since joining again
17:16 <+SirCmpwn> this wasn't the place to get help for that, so I told him a better alternative
17:17 <+sadimusi> sure, whatever. I really didn't mean to get into an argument about this
17:18 <+SirCmpwn> then maybe you shouldn't have been so accusatory
17:18 <+SirCmpwn> I assumed that I was invited back in because this sort of thing was behind us
17:19 <+sadimusi> I had nothing to do with this decision
17:20 <+SirCmpwn> "us" as a whole, sadimusi
17:20 <+SirCmpwn> in other words, I assumed that squabbling between myself and various channel users was behind us
17:25 < unnicked593> sadimusi is bad op
17:31 < jast> it's good cholesterol... but it spreads like bad cholesterol!
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17:56 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 2 commits to master [+1/-0/±5] http://git.io/Ujlz4w
17:56 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath dcef9f2 - Fixed sprinting
17:56 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath e104d57 - Redid metadata making it work across entities and items
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18:13 < barneygale> SirCmpwn: you tried to scare off a dude a day or two ago :P
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18:14 < barneygale> also unnicked593 why are you still here?
18:15 <+SirCmpwn> I suggested that he look into an existing minecraft library that could accomplish his needs
18:15 <+Prf_Jakob> barneygale: please don't do say things like that, doesn't help us at all.
18:15 <+SirCmpwn> is that scaring people off?
18:15 <+SirCmpwn> what happened to the big banner on the wiki's home page that was meant to scare off new programmers, anyway
18:15 < barneygale> SirCmpwn: He was asking questions about writing his own protocol implementation, not using someone else's
18:16 < barneygale> And he said he was doing it for fun / the experience
18:16 <+SirCmpwn> which is a bad thing to do it for, considering the kind of experience you'd get working with the minecraft protocol
18:16 < barneygale> I'd imagine the a majority of regular #mcdevs contributors started out like that
18:16 <+Prf_Jakob> barneygale: yet if they didn't redo things over and over again, we might actually have a fairly competent server.
18:17 <+Prf_Jakob> or client
18:17 < barneygale> I really doubt SirCmpwn's input has any impact on that one way or the other
18:18 < barneygale> I said to the guy "are you doing this for a server, or a client? Or just for fun?"
18:18 < barneygale> And he answered the latter.
18:20 < barneygale> Obviously it's advisable to use existing protocol libraries if your goal is the final product, and not the experience. I've written protocol libraries myself for that purpose.
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00:04 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2035 7 files : Preliminary Mojang account support (untested).
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00:23 < Not-001> [MinersLauncher] fragmer pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/hGFoMQ
00:23 < Not-001> [MinersLauncher] fragmer c55c505 - Relaxed regex restriction on direct-connect URLs, to allow emails-as-usernames (for mojanged accounts)
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00:43 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2036 2 files : Fixed an edge case in mojang account handling, for usernames over 13 characters long with more than 9 different domains.
00:44 <+md_5> different domains? wat
00:51 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2037 2 files : Mojanged players' emails are now shown in /Info, to authorized players.
00:52 <+Matvei> md_5, workarounds for Mojang breaking Classic
00:52 <+md_5> what are domains in classic
00:52 <+md_5> how do you have 9
00:52 <+Matvei> months ago, some classic players had their usernames irreversably replaced with email addresses
00:53 <+Matvei> After begging @mollstam for a while, I accepted the fact that it's not getting fixed
00:53 <+Matvei> And made a workaround!
00:53 <+Matvei> To avoid exposing players' email accounts, I strip domain name, e.g. "fragmer@gmail.com" becomes "fragmer@1"
00:54 <+Matvei> So, that's where domains are coming from -- from players who have same email username, but different email domains
00:54 <+Matvei> who become blah@1, blah@2, etc
00:55 <+md_5> <Matvei> months ago, some classic players had their usernames irreversably replaced with email addresses
00:55 <+md_5> how did that happen
00:56 <+Matvei> I wish I knew! Players "upgrading" to mojang account just lost ability to play Classic
00:56 <+md_5>  :|
00:56 <+md_5> has that been fixed?
00:56 <+Matvei> No fix has been attempted by Mojang
00:56 <+md_5> we could always just do a small classic patch
00:56 <+md_5> if you are into that kind of stuff
00:56 <+Matvei> It's a site problem
00:57 <+Matvei> minecraft.net serves emails in place of usernames for a subset of users. It only affects Classic though, so no one cares
00:58 <+Matvei> It's still possible to validate those players' credentials (validation hash uses the email as well). There's just no way to find their real username.
00:58 <+Matvei> So we improvise
00:59 <+md_5> :|
00:59 <+md_5> MOJANG
00:59 <+md_5> did you see they are already making $$$ of scrolls
00:59 <+md_5> what a joke
00:59 <+Matvei> I haven't been following Mojang's side projects
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01:04 <+SirCmpwn> I've asked mollstam several times about the implications for minecraft classic as he's mentioned several updates to minecraft.net and friends
01:05 <+SirCmpwn> it's always just "classic isn't supported and we don't actively prevent our changes from hindering its use"
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02:53 <+md_5> so
02:53 <+md_5> has anyone worked out the new json chat?
02:53 <+md_5> how can I send a plain message through with only text and formatting
02:53 <+md_5> does the new spec even allow 100% custom messages
02:53 <+sadimusi> I think it does
02:54 <+sadimusi> there were some kind of text notes in Dinnerb0ne's preview
02:55 <+sadimusi> it's even on the wiki http://wiki.vg/Pre-release_protocol#Chat_Message_.280x03.29
02:57 <+md_5>    {"text":"§aOld style chat"}
02:57 <+md_5> YES
03:07 < dx> md_5: heh, my exact reaction. no guarantee of having it behave like this forever though
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08:53 < Grum> <+md_5> [04:57:37]    {"text":"§aOld style chat"} <-- this will only work for now
08:53 < Grum> we'll end up stopping to use color-chars in general soon
08:54 <+sadimusi> Grum: but {"text": "foo"} will work forever, right?
08:54 < Grum> we'll see ;)
08:54 <+sadimusi> :)
08:54 < Grum> forever is a long time!
08:55 < SinZ> do you have plans to remove it then
08:55 <+sadimusi> s/forever/foreseeable future/
08:56 < Grum> its not even finished
08:56 < Grum> so we'll see
08:56 <+sadimusi> Grum: if you're removing all the color codes, will there be a new way to color player names or will you just drop this feature?
08:56 < Grum> sadimusi: its not a feature
08:56 <+sadimusi> sure it is :P
08:56 < Grum> nope its not
08:56 < Grum> because there is no way to actually do it
08:57 <+sadimusi> besides the lack of skins I don't see an issue with it
08:57 < Grum> lack of skins?
08:57 <+sadimusi> well, my skin won't load if my name is §asadimusi
08:58 < Grum> oh
08:58 < Grum> see, its not a feature ;)
08:58 < SinZ> it is a feature with side-effects
08:59 < Thinkofdeath> I think minecraft strips colour codes from names when loading the skin
08:59 < SinZ> nup
09:00 <+ammar2> yup
09:00 <+ammar2> it was added recently, maybe 1-2 updates ago
09:00 < Grum> it shouldn't have to, because names cannot have it ;)
09:00 <+sadimusi> so it is a feature :)
09:00 < Grum> i'll remove the code
09:00 <+sadimusi> :P
09:00 < dx> lol.
09:01 < Grum> done!
09:01  * sadimusi loves to drop in on servers in offline-mode as §zsadimusi
09:01 < Thinkofdeath> Oops... I may of just broke TagAPI :P
09:02 <+ammar2> Grum: job well done
09:02  * ammar2 pats Grum on the back
09:02 < dx> rip tagapi
09:03 < AlphaBlend> ;o
09:03 < AlphaBlend> so no way to color text in-game with color codes
09:04 < AlphaBlend> WELL THEN, there goes a small bit of our featureset!
09:04 < AlphaBlend> no way anymore*
09:04 < Grum> you just didn't deserve it!
09:04  * AlphaBlend slaps Grum
09:04 < AlphaBlend> hey man
09:04 < AlphaBlend> we liked elmo
09:04 < AlphaBlend> we really did
09:04 < jast> this is why we can't have good things
09:05 < dx> mbaxter_: remember when you said you didn't feel like adding scoreboard support for tagapi? well you don't need to bother about that stuff anymore
09:05 < AlphaBlend> you went through our tutorial and liked it
09:05 < jast> we don't deserve 'em
09:05 < AlphaBlend> NOW LOOK WHAT YOU DID?
09:05 < AlphaBlend> aw man, I need to hunt you down and give you a TNT cake with an actual fuse that looks like it's being eaten by fire, and scare the pants off you
09:06 < dx> lolwat
09:06 < Grum> ;D
09:06 < AlphaBlend> you guys WILL have a replacement to coloring text though, i hope
09:06 < dx> yes, json
09:06 < AlphaBlend> our ChatColor enum has been there for the longest time!
09:06 < dx> json everywhere
09:06 < dx> you better like it
09:07 < AlphaBlend> i hope i do
09:07 <+sadimusi> is it currently possible to color the motd?
09:07 <+sadimusi> if yes, what'll happen to that?
09:07 <+ammar2> yes
09:07 < Grum> chatcolor will die!
09:07 < AlphaBlend> Grum: Also, server has option to send client light updates = our old custom light feature resurrected
09:07 < AlphaBlend> yes yes?
09:07 < Thinkofdeath> Grum: Is there a chance we could get hex colours support in the json version? {"color":"FF0000","text":"hey"}
09:07 < Grum> Thinkofdeath: maybe
09:08 <+ammar2> also possible to colour kick messages and those little flash messages next to the logo in the client
09:08 < Thinkofdeath> Also what happens to coloured item names?
09:08  * md_5 puts knife in mouth and gives evil smile to #mcdevs 
09:08 <+md_5> did you guys see dinnerbros tweet btw? did I show it?
09:08 < dx> hello md_5
09:08 < AlphaBlend> ?
09:08 < AlphaBlend> that's a rather generic statement md_5
09:08 < AlphaBlend> yes i've seen many tweets from him, but i don't think you linked any of them :P
09:09 <+md_5> https://twitter.com/Dinnerbone/status/343449857182289920
09:09 < Grum> its true!
09:09 < AlphaBlend> oh
09:09 < AlphaBlend> meh
09:09 < dx> subtweets
09:09 < AlphaBlend> maybe your balancing is a little off balance :(
09:09 <+md_5> highly relevant to the discussion we had
09:10 < Grum> AlphaBlend: why?
09:11 < AlphaBlend> Grum: Well, tbh, I haven't messed with potions too much, but I can imagine nerfing a few things 50% of their original abilities might be offbalancing it
09:11 < Grum> so, eventhough you've never used them you claim that this is an issue? :D
09:11 < Grum> amaaaazing
09:11 < AlphaBlend> and the food thing reducing hunger? where'd that come from?
09:11 < Grum> from logic?
09:11 < Grum> why would it be free to heal up
09:11 < Grum> *forever*
09:12 < AlphaBlend> hmm
09:12 < Grum> you can just stand still and take punches
09:12 < Grum> and you'd heal up *forever*
09:12  * md_5 wonders if the dimensions field in the login packet has been changed to an int
09:12 < AlphaBlend> hmm
09:12 < Grum> it hasnt nor wont
09:12 < Grum> errr
09:12 < Grum> nor will;)
09:12 <+ammar2> Grum: is the json sent over the wire minified
09:12 < Grum> no
09:13 < dx> wat
09:13 < dx> the correct answer to that question is "yes, duh, what else would it be?"
09:13 < dx> not "no"
09:13 < dx> try again
09:13 < dx> are you saying it's pretty printed?
09:13 < Grum> no, the answer is: no, why the fuck would you do it
09:14 <+md_5> ................................................................
09:14 <+md_5> more like why the fuck would you pretty print
09:14 < Grum> who says we do?
09:14 <+md_5> you
09:14 <+md_5> <ammar2> Grum: is the json sent over the wire minified
09:14 < Grum> quote. NOW>
09:14 <+md_5> <Grum> no
09:14 < Grum> so, that means prettyfied?
09:14 < Grum> aaah fail logic again
09:14 <+md_5> well there are only 2 options there
09:14 < dx> json has two states: minified and pretty printed. one has no additional whitespace, the other does
09:14 < Grum> nope
09:14 <+md_5> its either got spaces or newlines or it doesnt
09:14 < AlphaBlend> Grum: Maybe player should get hungry while standing still and then eating food doesn't take any hunger at all
09:14 < Grum> it has far more stages
09:14 <+ammar2> lol, anyway. Moving on the important stuff. Grum, could you spin dinnerbro around like this so we have an updated gif http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/5/4201/297qrp.gif
09:15 < Grum> *states
09:15 < AlphaBlend> meh, i'm stuck in the past topic
09:15 <+md_5> 1 space, 2 spaces, 3 spaces ..... 999 spaces, 1000 spaces
09:15 < AlphaBlend> just jogging this in my head XD
09:15 < dx> 1000 spaces of pretty print on the wall, minify one down, 999 spaces of pretty print on the wall...
09:15 < Grum> md_5: no idea, from what i saw it doesnt have newlines when serialized but its also not 'minified'
09:15 < AlphaBlend> Amaranth: LOL YES THAT!
09:15 < dx> what's your definition of "minified"?
09:15 < AlphaBlend> ...
09:16 < AlphaBlend> OOPS!
09:16 <+ammar2> Amaranth: stop being me
09:16 < AlphaBlend> ammar2: LOL YES THAT
09:16 < AlphaBlend> i have the AlphaModder syndrome!
09:16 < Grum> dx: not compressed, not a single byte of data wasted if not 'needed'
09:17 < Grum> and it is not that
09:17 < Grum> yet its also not 'pretty printed'
09:18 < Grum> also, again, we're talking about *chat* which is ........ hardly anything on protocol level
09:20 < Thinkofdeath> To be fair any wasted bytes in the chat gets multipled by 2 (thanks to minecraft strings)
09:20 <+SirCmpwn> oh, we're talking about JSON chat again?
09:20 <+SirCmpwn> terrible idea.
09:20 <+ammar2> thanks, utf-16
09:20 <+ammar2> Grum: what was the reason for not using DataOutputStream's convenient writeUTF method which does utf8?
09:20 <+SirCmpwn> less terrible if Mojang gives up the lang files with a nice permissive license
09:21 < Grum> ammar2: no idea, that is what i would have used :/
09:21 < Grum> SirCmpwn: 'gives up the lang files' ?
09:21 < dx> lol, nobody remembers that reason
09:21 <+SirCmpwn> otherwise, distribution of lang files will be required for third party clients or anything resembling one
09:21 <+ammar2> well with all the breaking changes you're doing already
09:21 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: indeed
09:21 <+ammar2> I'm sure you can fix that minor gripe
09:21 < Thinkofdeath> ammar2: It would brake the server list ping if changed
09:21 < Grum> SirCmpwn: 'gives up' ?
09:21 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: "under a permissive license"
09:21 <+ammar2> Thinkofdeath: fix it everywhere but that then :P
09:21 < Grum> wut?
09:21 <+SirCmpwn> forfeit copyright to the text
09:21 < Grum> its just fucking text O.o
09:22 <+SirCmpwn> so are books
09:22 < Grum> yes, and you can just make your own book
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09:22 <+SirCmpwn> there's only so many ways to say "player has joined the server"
09:22 < Grum> as you can make your own lang file
09:22 < Grum> we'll copyright the lefthand side kk?
09:22 < Grum> or all odd chars
09:22 <+SirCmpwn> wait, aren't keys on the left
09:22 < Grum> or even, not sure which one has more
09:23 <+Amaranth> The server knows the client's locale, it should just manage localization itself and send final strings :P
09:23 <+SirCmpwn> ^
09:23 <+SirCmpwn> I wrote up a document describing this process
09:23 < Grum> Amaranth: it wont soon
09:23 < dx> apparently doing string formatting for every player is an extremely expensive operation
09:23 <+SirCmpwn> https://gist.github.com/SirCmpwn/c5b3cd93cd424f17edf4
09:23 < Grum> Amaranth: the server has no business knowing the clients locale, and we're ripping that out
09:23 <+ammar2> dx: very much so compared to the cheap json encoding
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09:23 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: wat
09:24 <+SirCmpwn> JSON encoding is anything but cheap
09:24 <+SirCmpwn> unless they do it in a really stupid way
09:24 < Grum> which we're not
09:24 < Thinkofdeath> Formatting per a player is what my server does currently (and my bukkit plugin) 
09:24 <+Amaranth> Grum: You're going to make everything server side that displays text require a client component too?
09:24 < Grum> we've made our own library, in the slowest way possible.
09:24 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: my wat was in response to your "server has no business knowing the clients locale"
09:24 < Grum> Amaranth: localized text? yes
09:25 < dx> Amaranth: only vanilla translated strings, the bukkit stuff is left undefined
09:25 <+Amaranth> Well, I guess I'm glad I never put any serious work into a localization framework for bukkit
09:25 <+Amaranth> Beyond a few hours of thought
09:25 <+ammar2> Amaranth: did you also hear the good news about ChatColor
09:25 <+Amaranth> Sure
09:26 <+SirCmpwn> ammar2: I didn't, enlighten me
09:26 < AlphaBlend> ^
09:26 <+ammar2> SirCmpwn: ChatColor goes poof
09:26 < Grum> by §
09:26 <+SirCmpwn> what is "ChatColor"
09:26 < Grum> err *bye ;)
09:26 < AlphaBlend> lol
09:26 <+SirCmpwn> that fancy character Grum just used
09:26 <+SirCmpwn> ?
09:26 < Grum> will just be printed soon as that character
09:26 <+ammar2> SirCmpwn: everything using the section symbol, motds, head tags etc
09:26 <+SirCmpwn> I would be pretty damn happy if colors could be #123456
09:26 < dx> ChatColor is the bukkit class that implements § based colors
09:26 <+SirCmpwn> dx: hey, mine is named that, too
09:27 <+SirCmpwn> how interesting
09:27 < dx> lol
09:27 <+ammar2> item names, kick messages. Really fun breaking change
09:27 <+Amaranth> It's not a valid name anymore though since it is more than colors
09:27 < Grum> fun fact, in our codebase its ChatFormatting :p
09:27 < dx> note how Grum doesn't consider bukkit his codebase anymore
09:27 <+SirCmpwn> yeah, I was thinking about changing it
09:27 < Grum> dx: havent worked on it for over a year
09:28 < Grum> not sure why you'd expect something else
09:28 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: so why shouldn't the server know the client's locale
09:28 < Grum> SirCmpwn: because it has no business knowing it?
09:28 < AlphaBlend> Grum: So to send colored chat by sending text, how is this going to work? I'm sorry, but I'm still confused over this :(
09:28 <+SirCmpwn> potential use: plugin that translates player chat to the user's locale with google translate or something
09:28 < Grum> nor a use for knowing it
09:28 < Grum> SirCmpwn: ...... O.o
09:28 < Grum> so the locale of a user now suddenly is their native language? :(
09:28 <+SirCmpwn> economy servers showing cash in the user's currency, or with the user's preferred number delimiter (i.e. $1.00 versus $1,00)
09:29 <+SirCmpwn> that's how they change the locale string, isn't it?
09:29 <+ammar2> Grum: not necessarily native, but generally their preferred language
09:29 < Grum> i actually agree with the last use case, i guess the client can keep sending it :p
09:29 <+SirCmpwn> and if the server already has it...
09:30 <+SirCmpwn> my gist becomes relevant again
09:30 < Grum> not really
09:30 < Grum> we're removing all but the enUS locale from the server anyhow
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09:30 <+SirCmpwn> why even keep that if the client is responsible for it all
09:30 < Grum> because the server is a client too?
09:31 <+sadimusi> SirCmpwn: the client could also format numbers...
09:31 < Grum> (logging == client)
09:31 <+SirCmpwn> sadimusi: right, horrible json
09:31 <+Amaranth> Grum: You realize that means adding or changing a locale string requires a protocol bump, right?
09:31 < Grum> Amaranth: not really
09:31 <+Amaranth> Or rather it should if you were strictly versioning
09:31 <+SirCmpwn> they choose 8 bit numbers to represent their protocol versions
09:31 <+SirCmpwn> they only have a couple years left
09:32 <+SirCmpwn> surely they'll up the bit length soon
09:32 < Thinkofdeath> SirCmpwn: They just reset it before
09:32 <+SirCmpwn> did it already overflow?
09:32 <+SirCmpwn> messy.
09:33 <+ammar2> SirCmpwn: + snapshots burn up like 3-10 proto versions
09:33 <+SirCmpwn> mm
09:33 < Grum> we'll just make it a long ;)
09:33 < Grum> and we'll send it with every packet
09:33 < Grum> to be sure
09:33 <+SirCmpwn> send it with a different bit length in every packet
09:33 <+SirCmpwn> draw inspiration from your 3D coordinate data types
09:34 < Grum> yeah we'll truncated based on the amount of packets send
09:34 < Grum> SirCmpwn: that stupid choice actually gives us quite some bugs
09:34 <+SirCmpwn> should really be a double, anyway. Snapshots can be fractions
09:34 < dx> i'm not sure if doubles provide enough precision
09:34 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: so how about that protocol rewrite I recall hearing talk of last year
09:34 < Grum> i'll somewhere after 1.6 will be changing the coordinate system to be integer based
09:34 <+Amaranth> I think the dissonance here is we're thinking up how a protocol with multiple implementations would be defined
09:34 < Grum> it'll be SO MUCH FUN
09:34 < Thinkofdeath> Grum: You could just use the version string that is sent with for the server list ping
09:35 <+SirCmpwn> Thinkofdeath: you can't compare 1.5.2 to 1.5.3 sanely
09:35 < Grum> oh and also break *everything* ;P
09:35 <+ammar2> Thinkofdeath: but version change isn't necessarily proto change
09:35 < Thinkofdeath> ammar2: True
09:35 -!- ranie [~rramiso@124.6.182.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
09:35 < Grum> Amaranth: which is why sending the translatable key is perfectly cross-version-compatible
09:35 <+SirCmpwn> speaking of server list ping, Grum: would you kindly change that useless field the client sends on 0xFE to be the protocol number
09:36 <+Amaranth> Grum: Right, because you don't care about other implementations and/or are hostile to them
09:36 < Grum> Amaranth: why would it be hostile?
09:36 <+SirCmpwn> as it stands now, that packet breaks the ability for servers to support several versions concurrently
09:36 < Grum> the only thing we need is a proper version of the server being send over earlier
09:36 < Calinou> 1.5.3? O_o
09:36 < Grum> rather than protocol version
09:36 <+SirCmpwn> Calinou: I just pulled a number out of my ass
09:37 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: I make that particular suggestion because it's easy and doesn't break anything
09:37 < Calinou> ah
09:37 < Grum> SirCmpwn: any change breaks things
09:38 <+SirCmpwn> that's silly and you know it
09:38 -!- TRocket [~TRocket@213.205.229.39] has joined #mcdevs
09:38 < Grum> SirCmpwn: also true
09:38 <+SirCmpwn> what breaks in this scenario?
09:38 <+SirCmpwn> does the vanilla server actually do something with that 1 the client sends it
09:39 < Grum> oh it will break some random gsp that has shit code and depends on it
09:39 < Grum> so unless we *WILL* be using it, its not really that 'useful' for us to do
09:40 <+SirCmpwn> it's use to you is comparable to all the stuff you've added for map makers lately
09:40 < Grum> i'm not dbone.
09:40 <+SirCmpwn> vanilla has no use for these things, but it is of great use to the community at large
09:40 < Grum> i rather not waste time on shit like that
09:40 <+SirCmpwn> "you" in that sentence refers to Mojang
09:41 < Grum> did you see how hard i break minecraft? i have another 2-3 days of fixing to do .. and the snapshot is thursday ....
09:41 < Grum> and this *has to be in*
09:41  * AlphaBlend pats Grum on the back
09:41 < Grum> my current compile has about 250 deprecated warnings and and equal amount of compilation errors
09:41 < dx> 04:36 < Grum> oh it will break some random gsp that has shit code and depends on it
09:41 < dx> what
09:41 < dx> he was suggesting changing what the client sends
09:42 < AlphaBlend> If only you guys had an extra hand... *wink wink*
09:42 < AlphaBlend> AH CRUD
09:42  * AlphaBlend runs off behind a creeper
09:42 <+SirCmpwn> what are you putting in on thursday?
09:42 < dx> clients can keep sending that magic number "1" after 0xFE if they want
09:42 <+SirCmpwn> I hope it's a new lighting system
09:42 < Grum> SirCmpwn: nope
09:42 < AlphaBlend> ^ lmao
09:42 < Calinou> Grum: just a suggestion, it would be nice if planting crops made less loud sounds
09:42 < Calinou> it gets annoying :<
09:42 < Grum> given up on that for now
09:42 < Calinou> and it's annoying to have to disable sound too
09:42 < Grum> Calinou: you can do that when i am done with this
09:42 < Calinou> (no hotkey to do it)
09:42 <+SirCmpwn> or more accurately, I hope it's anything I've hoped for protocol-wise since I started hacking away at Minecraft
09:42 <+SirCmpwn> oh, resource packs
09:43 <+SirCmpwn> meh
09:43 < Grum> actually you can do that already in the snapshots, just dump the soundfile at the right location in a texturepack
09:43 < dx> Calinou: ...that's rather offtopic
09:43 < Grum> SirCmpwn: 'meh' maybe, but 100% needed for any future
09:43 < AlphaBlend> SirCmpwn: There are issues on our redmine I don't want to do unless I can dedicate time to thinking of how to do them properly and accurately and make the most use out of them. Mojang feels that way about lighting probably...
09:43 <+SirCmpwn> I don't like the naming convention for new texture packs
09:43 <+SirCmpwn> I presume resource packs are compatible?
09:43 <+SirCmpwn> comparable*
09:43 <+md_5> 0xFE screws over backwards compat , yeah
09:43 < Grum> wha?
09:43 < Grum> we're overhauling *all* of the names of *all* resources in the resourcepacks
09:43 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: magic strings bad, block IDs good
09:44 < Grum> fuck ids
09:44 < Grum> seriously fuck ids
09:44 <+SirCmpwn> why fuck IDs
09:44 <+SirCmpwn> they are cold and unloving
09:44 < AlphaBlend> if everything was done as it was intended before, there'd be no use to break compatibility ;/
09:44 <+SirCmpwn> fuck girls
09:44 < dx> will chunk data include strings for each block then?
09:44 < Grum> poor 69 :(
09:44 < AlphaBlend> Grum: :(
09:44 < Grum> dx: eventually
09:44 < dx> ...i was going to say that it wasn't a serious question
09:44 < AlphaBlend> Grum: Sometimes I am weary of how much you intend to please the modding community >.>
09:44 <+SirCmpwn> dx: I'm going to convince myself he was joking
09:45 < Grum> AlphaBlend: i'm sorry that i do not cater to your specific needs >.>
09:45 < AlphaBlend> Grum: the ID eventual deprecation is one of the reasons I am weary :(
09:45 < Grum> SirCmpwn: we'll have a 'typestring->id' mapping eventually
09:45 < Grum> AlphaBlend: it *has* to happen
09:45 <+SirCmpwn> magic strings make me very sad
09:45 < AlphaBlend> i know...
09:45 < Grum> else you get into the same shit that the current client modding is in
09:45 <+SirCmpwn> too many of them as it is
09:45 < AlphaBlend> yeah, conflicts
09:45 < Grum> 'omg id clashes' ... 'omg 50kb of config to get non-clashing id-assignments'
09:45 < Calinou> dx: no u
09:45 < AlphaBlend> i know, there's really no alternatives around it really
09:46 < Calinou> this is a game, not your favorite python project
09:46 < Grum> so again, fuck ids; you will never see ids in the api
09:46 < Grum> you won't be able to request them, you wont be able to assign them
09:46 <+SirCmpwn> so they'll be assigned by the server and the client will be informed of them
09:46 < AlphaBlend> UNLESS, you have a mapping of mod name to IDs
09:46 <+SirCmpwn> and you won't be putting strings in chunk packets
09:46 < AlphaBlend> right?
09:46 < Grum> ids are purely a serialization optimization that is used to send stuff: 1) to disk; 2) to the client
09:46 <+SirCmpwn> what happens when you install another mod and open an old world and cobblestone has been reassigned to prevent conflict
09:47 < Grum> and that is what they will be
09:47 < Grum> SirCmpwn: the datafiles will define the mapping
09:47 <+SirCmpwn> ah.
09:47 < Grum> not the mods
09:47 <+SirCmpwn> well, it's not a horrible solution, but it's ugly
09:47 < Grum> ugly?
09:47 < Grum> its the only way
09:47 <+SirCmpwn> I despise adding more constant strings to my code
09:47 -!- TRocket [~TRocket@213.205.229.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
09:47 < Grum> why would you add strings?
09:48 < Grum> you register your block under a unique name
09:48 < AlphaBlend> Grum: Question, what about mapping a mod/plugin name with an ID set? That would work, wouldn't it?
09:48 < Grum> you can get the proper object from the registry and you will just keep that thing referenced in your code
09:48 <+SirCmpwn> I'm drawing my inferences from the new texture packs
09:48 <+SirCmpwn> where the textures are "lava.png" and such
09:48 < Grum> SirCmpwn: lava_still and lava_flowing now though ;)
09:48 <+SirCmpwn> merely an example
09:48 < Grum> AlphaBlend: there is no mapping you can control *ever*
09:49 < Grum> SirCmpwn: eventually you'd refer to the texture from a blockdefinition by name
09:49 < AlphaBlend> i know, it might change, then you have a useless map that doesn't mean anything anymore
09:49 < Grum> you can pick the name, sane names would be nicer obviously
09:49 <+SirCmpwn> back to JSON chat, I just realized yet another drawback
09:50 < Grum> why have a 0xAC2B634 if you can have "my_new_block.png" ?
09:50 <+SirCmpwn> servers who want to say "Player has bit the dust" instead of the vanilla death message or what not will no longer be able to
09:50 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: ugly magic strings
09:50 < Grum> SirCmpwn: they can, you can just send a non-translatable text
09:50 < Grum> SirCmpwn: no, filenames within your resourcepack
09:50 < Grum> nothing 'magic'
09:50 < Grum> just 'named resources'
09:50 <+SirCmpwn> or, you could do something like my solution, and have translatable strings on the server
09:50 <+md_5> Amaranth did you ever manage to work around this jline bug? http://screencloud.net/v/1Sfd
09:50 <+SirCmpwn> problem is eliminated, not brushed aside
09:51 < Grum> or having translatable strings on the server is stupid? because it has a fuckton of downsides
09:51 <+SirCmpwn> name them
09:51 < Grum> 1) it doesnt get updated that often; 2) it isnt extendable; 3) the server has to know of things it shouldnt have to; 4) totally most important; cpu usage wasting
09:51 < Grum> you cannot use a language the server doesnt have ... which is stupid
09:52 < Grum> you cannot update a language unless you fix up the server
09:52 <+SirCmpwn> 1) what doesn't get updated? Lang files? They update nearly every release
09:52 < Grum> so what if it has a typo?
09:52 < Grum> you have to wait until the next release?
09:52 < Grum> or just start the launcher again and i'll download it?
09:52 <+SirCmpwn> you update your server
09:52 < Grum> *it'll
09:52 <+SirCmpwn> or the server updates itself, I don't care
09:52 <+SirCmpwn> somethings gotta be updated, why does it matter which?
09:52 <+SirCmpwn> 2) It's more extensible on the client, sure, but the server loses a lot
09:52 < Grum> or we just send the keys+args to the client and you can use your own locale
09:53 < Grum> SirCmpwn: the server loses nothing
09:53 <+SirCmpwn> 3) we agreed that telling the server locale was valuable
09:53 < Grum> absolutely *NOTHING*
09:53 <+SirCmpwn> <SirCmpwn> servers who want to say "Player has bit the dust" instead of the vanilla death message or what not will no longer be able to
09:53 <+ammar2> the server could easily fetch key value translations from a mojang server through the web, updates are pretty much irrelevant
09:53 < Grum> you just send text!?
09:53 < Grum> i dont see the issue
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09:53 < Grum> you have two kinds of 'texts' one is translatable, one is plain
09:53 <+SirCmpwn> 4) I'll laugh at you if you pretend encoding JSON is cheaper than string formatting again
09:53 < Grum> the translatable sends a key+args, the plain one ... plain text
09:53 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: you can translate the "untranslatable" text in my scenario
09:53 <+SirCmpwn> not in yours
09:53 < Grum> you can?
09:53 <+SirCmpwn> yup
09:54 < Grum> 3) we agreed on the server still having the locale-data
09:54 <+SirCmpwn> because the server has the client locale and is translating for them
09:54 < Grum> so you can still do whatever the fuck you want
09:54 < Grum> and just not send a translatable-text but a pre-translated plain text message
09:54 <+SirCmpwn> perhaps, but that's messy
09:54 < Grum> omg solved and much better.
09:54 < Grum> no its not.
09:54 <+SirCmpwn> half the stuff mods do is messy and hacky anyway
09:54 < Grum> it is exactly what you would do now
09:54 < dx> [x] achievement unlocked, get Grum to change something based on your suggestions
09:54 <+SirCmpwn> mixing server translated and client translated text is messy by all definitions
09:55 < Grum> dx: happened 25 mins ago though
09:55 < dx> (get the client to send the server the locale info)
09:55 < dx> Grum: yeah
09:55 <+SirCmpwn> *get Grum not to change something
09:55 <+SirCmpwn> ;)
09:55 < Grum> SirCmpwn: ... so do not do it? i mean you are making it messy, not me
09:55 < Thinkofdeath> Can we send a resource pack with the language strings from the server to the client?
09:55 < Grum> Thinkofdeath: yes
09:55 < Grum> i broke it now, but yes
09:55 <+SirCmpwn> you're so concerned about modders, Grum, then help them out by making good design choices
09:55 < Thinkofdeath> Ah awesome
09:56 < Grum> SirCmpwn: you are thinking of 1 week ahead, i'm thinking of what the 'plugin api in the far future will look like'
09:56 <+SirCmpwn> sending resource packs with language strings to the client helps a lot, though
09:56 <+SirCmpwn> can the client refuse these language strings?
09:56 <+SirCmpwn> like they can texture packs
09:56 < Grum> yes
09:56 <+SirCmpwn> so every time a server wants to customize a message, the client has to agree to it?
09:57 < Grum> it has to agree to get data from the server yes
09:57 <+SirCmpwn> note: nearly every server customizes these messages
09:57 < Thinkofdeath> Could we mark it as required and disconnect them if they say no?
09:57 < dx> "plugin api in the far future", noted.
09:57 <+SirCmpwn> the plugin API is years away
09:57 < Grum> dx: far is relative ;)
09:57 <+ammar2> if you send it as a resource pack SirCmpwn, presumably you can just send it as plain text without the special translation
09:57 < Grum> SirCmpwn: i really do not see the problem
09:57 <+SirCmpwn> ammar2: true, but we aren't notified of the users response to our texture pack offering
09:57 < Grum> you either: 1) have the translations on the server for the things you want to send and know the clients locale and know the client doesnt have the translations so you just send the fucking pre-translated text
09:57 <+ammar2> Grum: 1 year and counting :)
09:58 < Grum> 2) you know the client has the locale and the translation so you send the pre-translation (not -ed) string.
09:58 < Grum> its not hard?
09:58 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: you've convinced me that it will be possible for servers to customize text, but it's still messy and that's not the only thing that's wrong with it
09:58 < Grum> the onyl thing you need is the client telling you the locale
09:58 < Grum> i agree that is very useful to do
09:58 < Grum> so we'll not strip that
09:58 < Grum> all problems solved
09:58 <+SirCmpwn> all is a little liberal, here
09:58 < Grum> SirCmpwn: you have full control from the server
09:59 < Grum> text-wise
09:59 < Grum> you can do whatever the fuck you want
09:59 <+SirCmpwn> as far as what the user sees and what the server can do, it's fine
09:59 < Grum> if you want to use the predefined texts, you can use that
09:59 <+SirCmpwn> but the choice to use JSON is still bad for reasons I haven't heard challenged
09:59 < Grum> i mean, i might even make a debug-locale
09:59 < Grum> where i just do: key=key, %s, %s, %s ...
10:00 < Grum> so i can see the raw data the server send me
10:00 < Grum> well 'raw' ;P
10:00 < Grum> SirCmpwn: json was the easy way
10:00 <+SirCmpwn> the wrong way
10:00 < Grum> remember we actually want to push some shit out?
10:00 < Grum> then what is 'the right way' ?
10:00 < Grum> bson? our own custom format?
10:00 <+SirCmpwn> so don't fix what isn't broken
10:00 < Grum> nbt? (HURRRL)(
10:00 <+SirCmpwn> you want to push stuff out, don't waste time on things that are a waste of time
10:00 < Grum> it *is* broken, there is no sane way to send translatable data over
10:00 <+SirCmpwn> there is!
10:00 <+SirCmpwn> the server has the bloody client locale
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10:01 <+SirCmpwn> that'd take 10 minutes to implement, making the server use that locale
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10:01 <+SirCmpwn> your JSON crap has taken you hours
10:01 < Grum> .......................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
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10:01 < AlphaBlend> this is not going good
10:01 < Grum> .......................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
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10:01 <+ammar2> Grum: please, stop.
10:01 < Grum> .......................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
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10:01 < dx> is he on a period or what
10:01 < Grum> .......................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
10:01 < Calinou> a mojangsta spams
10:01 < Grum> .......................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
10:01 < Calinou> :-D
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10:01 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: enough, please
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10:01 < Grum> .............................................................................................................
10:01 < Grum> oh that was a bit longer than intended haha :p
10:01 -!- Grum [~grum@irc.grum.nl] has left #mcdevs []
10:02 < Calinou> period period period period...
10:02 < dx> loling
10:02 -!- Grum [~grum@irc.grum.nl] has joined #mcdevs
10:02 < AlphaBlend> >.> i think he's trying to make a good point about something ;\
10:02 < Grum> woops
10:02 < Grum> that was a bit too long >.>
10:02 <+SirCmpwn> a great number of points, actually
10:02 <+ammar2> "woops"
10:02 < Calinou> gotta like how you're not going to be banned
10:02 < AlphaBlend> although i know not of much JSON, so I really can't input much about it
10:02 < Grum> hehe was just intended to be 1 line; forgot this client wraps very well and not truncates =)
10:02 <+ammar2> Calinou: ban the only mojangsta who talks around here?
10:02 <+ammar2> Grum: lolwat
10:02 <+SirCmpwn> AlphaBlend: https://gist.github.com/Dinnerbone/5631634
10:02 < Grum> le'sorry for that ;)_
10:02 < dx> ...:V
10:03 < dx> Grum: what the hell was that for
10:03 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: before your dot parade, I had said that using the client-provided locale and translating on the server is far easier. 10 minutes of work, versus the hours you've spent on JSON
10:03 < Grum> actually its stupidly limiting
10:03 < Calinou> ammar2: he spammed
10:03 < Calinou> so he shud be bannd!!!!!!1
10:03 <+SirCmpwn> do explain, Grum
10:03 < Grum> i accidently pasted a bit too many dots :P
10:03 < Calinou> #averagestaff
10:03 <+SirCmpwn> what limitations have you overcome with JSON
10:04 < Grum> i tried to quit the channel when i realized but it kinda didnt let me >.>
10:04 < Grum> SirCmpwn: complex nesting
10:04 <+SirCmpwn> elaborate on this idea
10:04 < AlphaBlend> SirCmpwn: I'm merely referring to spontaneous chat from players sending symbols, does that apply anymore?
10:04 < Grum> but the real 'big' thing is that a client can have a completely custom/unknown locale
10:04 < Grum> which is the whole point of resourcepacks
10:04 <+SirCmpwn> AlphaBlend: I have no clue what you're talking about
10:04 < Grum> being able to have custom resources, of which language is one
10:05 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: you mean the ability to have "language packs" akin to texture packs?
10:05 <+SirCmpwn> resource files will allow this?
10:05 < Grum> yes
10:05 <+SirCmpwn> well shit, now you've ruined my point
10:05 < AlphaBlend> : SirCompwn: ohahi this ------>%4red (then that is color red, although % isn't the right symbol)
10:05 <+SirCmpwn> :P
10:05 < dx> and it will only apply to vanilla translatable strings
10:05 < dx> so useful
10:05 < AlphaBlend> if players type text, they can't do this anymore?
10:05 < Grum> we miss 1 feature to complete it, but you can replace the current locales from within a resourcepack
10:05 < Grum> adding a custom one requires one more thing, a registration of it, which we havent added yet
10:05 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: you're minifying the JSON?
10:05 < Grum> SirCmpwn: currently no, but its also not 'prettified'
10:06 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: are you compressing it?
10:06 < Grum> last i saw was that it has no 'multiple whitespaces'
10:06 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: minify it, don't compress it, I'll have no further complaints
10:06 <+SirCmpwn> your library should minify it for you
10:06 < Grum> but it isnt 'minified' atm
10:06 <+SirCmpwn> it should come out of the library minified, actually
10:06 < Grum> we might eventually make it bson or something else if size turns out to be a 'real issue'
10:06 <+SirCmpwn> find a new library if it doesn't
10:07 < Grum> i think by default GSON doesnt minify it, it probably has an option to do so
10:07 < Thinkofdeath> Grum: Or half the size by changing the Chat Message to UTF8
10:07 <+SirCmpwn> don't serialize it
10:07 <+SirCmpwn> please don't serialize it
10:07 <+SirCmpwn> the performance implications are vast
10:07 < dx> what do you mean by "serialize"?
10:07 -!- TRocket [~TRocket@213.205.229.39] has joined #mcdevs
10:07 < Grum> Thinkofdeath: slightly bigger impact but yes, that would not be bad
10:07 <+SirCmpwn> https://code.google.com/p/google-gson/
10:07 <+SirCmpwn> GSON converts Java objects to JSON
10:07 <+SirCmpwn> serialization
10:08 < dx> oh, that thing
10:08 < Grum> SirCmpwn: we have custom serialization that only adds what is non-default/needed
10:08 <+SirCmpwn> and it's slow as fuck
10:08 <+SirCmpwn> have you run performance tests?
10:08 < dx> performance is not an issue
10:08 < Grum> no, because there is no indication this will be remotely an issue
10:08 < dx> performance is never an issue
10:08 <+SirCmpwn> you've never seen a Minecraft out of memory screen?
10:08 < Grum> it might be, but not until it is
10:08 < dx> 05:27 <+md_5> wouldnt making a server that can hold 300 people without eating up 3ghz of cpu be a priority?
10:08 < dx> 05:27 < Grum> md_5: nope
10:08 < Grum> SirCmpwn: i havent actually
10:09 <+SirCmpwn> lots of people have
10:09 <+SirCmpwn> lots more will, too
10:09 <+md_5> Minecraft client ram is great :|
10:09 <+ammar2> Grum: so even if you do stick with client based translation, why bother with json, you could switch to a markdown like format for colours and do an additional packet or send a boolean in the chat packet which sends the translation key and number and types of parameters to be formatted with
10:09 <+md_5> I run on 98mb of ram tops
10:09 < Grum> SirCmpwn: not because of this change
10:09 <+SirCmpwn> this change will be one of many that contribute
10:09 < Grum> also, most of that was caused by horrible textureloading
10:09 < Grum> which is fixed now
10:09 < Grum> we leaked native buffers by the tons
10:09 <+SirCmpwn> really? I think dav1d had some concerns about your texture loading, actually
10:09 < Grum> in 1.6?
10:09 <+SirCmpwn> something about being "really fucking stupid"
10:10 < Grum> for 1.5.2 that is true
10:10 < Grum> it is STUPID there
10:10 <+SirCmpwn> I think he said you would kill performance if Dinnerbone's resource pack gist was accurate
10:10 < Grum> spend 3 bloody weeks fixing it
10:10 < Grum> its actually faster than ever now
10:10 <+SirCmpwn> not just kill, he was quite insistent that it would be a brutal, merciless, and gruesome death
10:10 < Grum> and not just a little bit faster
10:10 < Grum> SIGNIFICANTLY faster
10:10 < Grum> oh and 100% guaranteed not to leak a single byte
10:11 <+SirCmpwn> maybe "clamp": false had something to do with it?
10:11 <+SirCmpwn> I'm not certain
10:11 < Grum> well, JVM implementation aside ;)
10:11 < dx> http://dpaste.com/1228269/
10:11 < dx> here SirCmpwn Grum dav1d ^
10:11 <+SirCmpwn> something about being forced to give the GPU a shitload of shit
10:11 <+SirCmpwn> dx: ty
10:11 < Grum> god he is a fucking noob
10:11 -!- Paprikachu [~Paprikach@80.120.175.113] has joined #mcdevs
10:11 < Grum> we just need that attribute on 1-2 textures
10:11 <+SirCmpwn> dav1d is nothing of the sort, he's made a far better rendering system than Minecraft has ever had
10:11 < Grum> or do you prefer doing: bind("%clamp%%blur%/path/to/file.ext")
10:11 < Grum> i rather have it in a property file
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10:12 <+SirCmpwn> his concern is the ability to use clamp at all, I think
10:12 < Grum> yeah, does his 'far better rendering system' work on opengl 1.2?
10:12 <+SirCmpwn> yup.
10:12 < Grum> url.
10:12 <+SirCmpwn> https://github.com/dav1dde/BraLa, I think
10:12 < Grum> oh ... and crossplatform?
10:12 <+SirCmpwn> yup.