15:13 < ffdr> client can use it fine but I guess it adds diffrent form to hash
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15:15 < ffdr> hmm java getEncoded() is also der ;/
15:18 < ffdr> is there a way to make minecraft login with minecraft.net when running without launcher?
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15:38 < SinZ> AnotherOne: https://github.com/ylt/Resonate/blob/master/src/Resonate/dev/Generate_Packets.py Not sure if that works anymore
15:40 <+sadimusi> ffdr: did you figure out how to do the hash?
15:40 < ffdr> sadimusi: oh 
15:41 < ffdr> I just setup minecraft client & my server to print byte arrays on sha1#update
15:41 < AnotherOne> SinZ: looks too easy
15:42 < AnotherOne> i'll try my own monstrous parsing
15:42 <+sadimusi> ffdr: and are you getting the same thing?
15:42 < AnotherOne> and evolude it into regex
15:42 < ffdr> sadimusi: pretty much ;/
15:43 < ffdr> java prints the server id added to sha1 as nothing, but secret token and public key are same
15:43 <+sadimusi> then you're probably not sending the server id correctly
15:43 < ffdr> so it must be wrong twos complement
15:44 < ffdr> sadimusi: I mean
15:44 < ffdr> it just prints "Updating sha1 with: "
15:44 < ffdr> and then two updates for public key and secret token with correct hex
15:45 < ffdr> on the client side
15:45 <+sadimusi> it probably initializes with the server id
15:45 < ffdr> http://pastebin.com/unPXSSRQ
15:46 <+sadimusi> if you're getting correct values for jeb_, Notch and simon (that's me) it's most likely not your two's-complement implementation
15:47 <+sadimusi> so I'm still going with incorrect oxFC
15:47 <+sadimusi> *0
15:47 < ffdr> sadimusi: i have no idea, i tried everything
15:51 < ffdr> that java debug breaks with servverId string
15:51 < ffdr> printing nothing
15:52 <+sadimusi> maybe I can quickly modify mc3p's client encryption debugger to also work for servers
15:52 < ffdr> ^_^
15:52 <+sadimusi> It'll look something like this http://cl.ly/POYU
15:53 < ffdr> thats a nice debug
15:53 <+sadimusi> what os are you using?
15:54 < ffdr> my old ruby client debug was even more fancy xD
15:54 < ffdr> arch linux
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16:09 < ffdr> sadimusi: ping me when you make it
16:09 <+sadimusi> I will
16:15 < ffdr> sadimusi: O_O
16:15 <+sadimusi> ffdr: ?
16:15 < ffdr> minecraft is updating sha1 with empty byte array at first
16:15 < dav1d> no
16:16 <+sadimusi> I'm pretty sure it isn't
16:16 < ffdr> it looks weird but this is what my debug hooks prints
16:16 < ffdr> in minecraft client
16:16 < ffdr> no idea why
16:16 < dav1d> https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/brala/network/session.d#L92
16:16 < dav1d> works!
16:17 < ffdr> this is what am i doing but hash is diffrent from java one
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16:17 <+sadimusi> I'm still saying you're not sending the server id correctly
16:18 < ffdr> hmmm
16:18 < dav1d> then you're doing it wrong
16:19 < ffdr> sadimusi: what do you think about that => http://pastebin.com/XnHmhDf4
16:19 <+sadimusi> that looks ok
16:19 < ffdr> why the first one is empty
16:19 < ffdr> it was supposed to be server id
16:20 <+sadimusi> [4:17pm] sadimusi: I'm still saying you're not sending the server id correctly
16:20 < ffdr> sadimusi: its minecraft source code
16:21 <+sadimusi> so you're not trying it with your server?
16:21 < ffdr> yeah i am trying
16:22 <+sadimusi> try it with the vanilla server and look if the array is still empty
16:22 <+sadimusi> (spoiler: it isn't)
16:23 < ffdr> ahh you say that i send it wrong in 0xFD
16:23 < ffdr> sorry I didn't understand you
16:24 < ffdr> I think it know where the problem may be *facepalm*
16:24 < ffdr> I know*
16:26 < ffdr> yay
16:26 < ffdr> fixed
16:28 < ffdr> Ported my java project to ruby...java 1632 lines, ruby 231 \o/
16:36 < ffdr> oh btw it was wrong minecraft strings impl.
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16:56 < ffdr> after EncKeyResponse the kick is unencrypted?
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16:59 < ffdr> ah ok it is
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17:16 < TkTech> sadimusi: Can I suggest the textwrap module for those hex dumps?
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17:21 <+sadimusi> TkTech: what would be the benefit of using that?
17:21 < TkTech> sadimusi: Easier reading when the rows are aligned to 80 chars, for example.
17:22 <+sadimusi> I already wrap them manually, currently the default is just the window's width
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17:23 <+sadimusi> and I think this module won't let me easily write on two lines at once
17:23 <+sadimusi> oh, the raw bytes are not wrapped
17:23 <+sadimusi> I'll add that
17:24 < TkTech> sadimusi: "Two lines at once", I don't entirely understand that.
17:24 < TkTech> It's specifically for blocks of text, including multiline text.
17:25 < AnotherOne> http://pastebin.com/ysX2DCJt
17:25 < AnotherOne> hell yeah!
17:25 <+sadimusi> every received byte gets written immediately to the "Receiving raw bytes" and the "Decrypted bytes" line
17:26 < TkTech> sadimusi: For example you would use it with initial_indent='\tchallege_token: ', subsequen_indent='\t\t\t'
17:26 < TkTech> (Don't use tabs, but you get the idea.
17:26 <+sadimusi> I might use it for everything else than the LoggingStream
17:27 < TkTech> Oh, sorry, I misunderstood
17:27 < TkTech> Using curses?
17:27 <+sadimusi> yes
17:27 < AnotherOne> i need your advice, people. should i format field names to fieldName before writing to JSON?
17:28 <+sadimusi> why would you have to do that?
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17:29 < AnotherOne> what exactly?
17:29 <+sadimusi> rename the fields
17:30 < AnotherOne> to generate code
17:30 <+sadimusi> I thought you're generating json
17:30 < AnotherOne> and then code from json
17:30 < AnotherOne> i think someone will need packets in JSON
17:30 < AnotherOne> so then i dont need to rename fields
17:31 <+sadimusi> if anything I would reformat it when generating the code
17:31 <+sadimusi> this way everybody can use his own naming scheme
17:32 < AnotherOne> how can i get wiki page source from my application?
17:32 < AnotherOne> it is much easier to parse than html
17:32 <+SirCmpwn> same way you get it through your browser
17:32 <+SirCmpwn> http://wiki.vg/wiki/index.php?title=Protocol&action=edit
17:33 <+sadimusi> I'd use raw instead of edit
17:33 < AnotherOne> raw?
17:33 <+sadimusi> http://wiki.vg/wiki/index.php?title=Protocol&action=raw
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17:33 <+SirCmpwn> that looks much better
17:34 < AnotherOne> good
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18:12 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2027 2 files : Improved MapGeneratorGui documentation, and disabled auto-resizing while in designer mode.
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18:34 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 2 commits to master [+3/-0/±10] http://git.io/e77Yvg
18:34 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 8735c00 - Added a new logger which supports colours (windows only)
18:34 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath bf163cc - Added linux support for console colours + a fallback for other OSs
18:36 < AnotherOne> wiki is wrong
18:36 < AnotherOne> it breaks my parser
18:36 < AnotherOne> so i will fix wiki
18:41 <+clonejo> AnotherOne: wrong about what?
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18:43 < AnotherOne> 0x17
18:43 < AnotherOne> small formatting issues
18:43 < AnotherOne> i fixed it
18:43 < AnotherOne> you may look
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19:02 < AnotherOne> moar fixes
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19:53 < ffdr> what is default pkcs version used by java?
19:53 < ffdr> for rsa
19:54 <+sadimusi> ffdr: pkcs#1
19:54 < ffdr> hmm
19:55 < ffdr> my server works on mri ruby but on java ruby client can't decode the public key
19:55 <+SirCmpwn> 1.5
19:55 <+SirCmpwn> http://wiki.vg/Protocol_Encryption
19:55 <+SirCmpwn> there's lots of details on this page
19:55 < ffdr> error is somehow related to pkcs
19:55 < ffdr> SirCmpwn: yeah, readed that
19:55 <+SirCmpwn> link to your code
19:56 < ffdr> I can create a quick testcase for this but it looks more like an jruby problem
19:56 < ffdr> I guess it uses other pkcs version as default
19:56 < ffdr> where at mri ruby it works fine
19:57 <+SirCmpwn> I feel your pain, Craft.Net has a Mono-only dependency because Mono has broken crypto support
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19:59 < ffdr> is there some easy way to detect pkcs version from byte array key
19:59 < ffdr> in java?
19:59 < ffdr> I want to add some debugs for this in vanilla client
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20:01 <+SirCmpwn> md_5 is our java guy
20:03 < shoghicp> Who is the C# guy?
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20:03 < ffdr> SirCmpwn is D:
20:04 < shoghicp> I've a guy on #mcpedevs asking questions about C# a lot, InusualZ
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20:05 <+SirCmpwn> shoghicp: who?
20:05 < ffdr> oh it looks like there are some classes for every pkcs version
20:05 < ffdr> maybe I can force v1.5
20:05 < shoghicp> SirCmpwn: InusualZ
20:05 <+SirCmpwn> oh, I thought your prior statement was addressing this guy
20:06 <+SirCmpwn> I vaguely remember not liking him. Should I help him?
20:06 < ffdr> uhh only pkcs 5,7 and 12 has its own class
20:06 < shoghicp> He has no idea about how packet works
20:07 < shoghicp> packets*
20:07 < shoghicp> nor binary R/W
20:07 <+SirCmpwn> I'm not particularly good with UDP
20:07 <+SirCmpwn> never done anything with it
20:07 <+SirCmpwn> I did manage to show up in my phone's server list once
20:07 < shoghicp> don't worry, the UDP protocol in MCPE is a TCP-alike implementation
20:08 < shoghicp> I've to handle all the packet reliability myself
20:08 < shoghicp> and splitting packets :s
20:08 < ffdr> SirCmpwn: according to wikipedia PKCS #7 is version 1.5
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20:08 < shoghicp> He did an IRC client
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20:15 < shoghicp> SirCmpwn: thanks ;)
20:15 <+SirCmpwn> I should add PE support to Craft.Net
20:15 <+SirCmpwn> after I add classic support in a week or so
20:16 <+SirCmpwn> huh, I installed the latest PE on my phone and multiplayer seems to have been replaced by realms
20:16 <+SirCmpwn> shoghicp: what is the meaning of this
20:17 < shoghicp> oh, no, go to "Play"
20:17 < shoghicp> local servers now appear there
20:17 <+SirCmpwn> interesting
20:17 <+SirCmpwn> find anything that lets you run PE on a desktop yet?
20:18 < ffdr> ok it looks like pkcs7 is not what i want
20:18 < shoghicp> SirCmpwn: bluestacks, someone had success with it
20:19 <+SirCmpwn> and if I use linux
20:21 < shoghicp> hmm
20:22 < shoghicp> it is only available for Win and Mac
20:22 <+SirCmpwn> trying out androvm
20:22 < ffdr> SirCmpwn: uh are the KEYS in the der format even padded
20:22 <+SirCmpwn> I'd prefer a solution built on virtualbox anyway, afaik bluestacks is an adware-driven piece of shit
20:23 < ffdr> I was thinking only data was padded
20:23 <+SirCmpwn> ffdr: which keys'
20:23 < shoghicp> SirCmpwn: keep in mind that MCPE is ARM
20:23 < ffdr> SirCmpwn: public key send to client
20:23 <+SirCmpwn> shoghicp: asdf
20:27 < ffdr> correct public key is 272 bytes, faulty is 280 bytes
20:28 < ffdr> ah nevermind that*
20:29 < ffdr> I was looking at base64 ones not binary where one implementation was adding RSA after BEGIN
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20:30 < ffdr> hmm correct public key in der is 162 bytes and faulty(jruby impl) is actually 140
20:30 < ffdr> weird
20:31 < ffdr> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4739662/problem-transmiting-a-rsa-public-key-javame-bouncy-castle
20:31 < ffdr> heh, looks like same problem. 162 vs 140
20:33 < ffdr> rsa pkcs #1 is 140 bytes and x509 is 162
20:40 < ffdr> it is BEGIN RSA PUBLIC KEY vs BEGIN PUBLIC KEY where the second one is correct x509 ._.
20:50 < barneygale> ffdr: not sure if this is of use to you https://gist.github.com/barneygale/bc303b2515fdaa7c2fb2
20:50 < barneygale> python snippet that uses M2Crypto
20:56 < dav1d> clonejo: BraLa scripting with https://github.com/maximecb/Higgs ? :D
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21:07 < ffdr> barneygale: it is a bug in java ruby impl. where it exports keys to diffrent format than normal ruby
21:31 < AnotherOne> http://pastebin.com/dbbAdj4L
21:31 < AnotherOne> here is JSON for 0x01
21:31 < AnotherOne> is it ok?
21:31 <+SirCmpwn> AnotherOne: strip out <code>
21:32 < AnotherOne> ok
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21:35 < AnotherOne> should i add number of packets field?
21:37 <+SirCmpwn> any JSON library worth its salt can do that
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21:37 < AnotherOne> mojang thought the same about packet lengths
21:38 <+SirCmpwn> wat
21:38 < AnotherOne> nothing;)
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21:59 < AnotherOne> https://github.com/tehme/mcprotocol/blob/master/packets_json_v01.txt
21:59 < AnotherOne> here it is
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22:00 < AnotherOne> tell me if you find any wrong data, please
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22:09 <+SirCmpwn> https://github.com/tehme/mcprotocol/commit/ece182f5a9da91efa60731c758f8553656a9579c
22:09 <+SirCmpwn> charming.
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22:10 <+ammar2> 216 line .gitignore
22:10 <+ammar2> woah
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22:12 < jast> copied from somewhere, I'm sure
22:12 < AnotherOne> it's all github:)
22:12 < jast> one of them "ALL the dotfiles" repos or something
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22:16 <+SirCmpwn> why does this repo even need a gitignore
22:16 < AnotherOne> because of visual studio project inside
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22:17 <+SirCmpwn> ah, I just noticed that
22:17 <+SirCmpwn> so your goal is more than just a JSON representation of the wiki
22:18 < jast> yeah, including guidance files, resharper, teamcity, dotcover, ncrunch, installshield, ... it's all in your working tree, of course
22:18 <+SirCmpwn> and to think I was hopeful about this venture
22:18 < jast> along with eclipse project files,
22:18 < jast> oh well
22:19 < AnotherOne> jast: github made this file, not me:)
22:19 <+SirCmpwn> the smiley face at the end isn't an excuse for not reading man pages
22:19 < AnotherOne> it is betted for me not to touch it while im new to git
22:19 < AnotherOne> better*
22:20 < AnotherOne> SirCmpwn: don't you like smiley faces?
22:21 < jast> I don't... I hate them :)
22:22 < AnotherOne> heh
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23:03 < AnotherOne> finally done
23:03 < AnotherOne> time to learn regex
23:10 < Yoshi2> I wish you lots of fun with regex
23:11 < AnotherOne> was that sarcasm?
23:14 < AnotherOne> i have 2 questions about json packets: is it better to store packet id as "0x.." string or int? should i add link to corresponding packet in wiki?
23:14 < dav1d> makes no difference
23:15 < AnotherOne> why?
23:15 < dav1d> both values have to parsed, int is probably better though because json parser understand that
23:26 < AnotherOne> https://github.com/tehme/mcprotocol/blob/master/src/wiki2json/main.cpp#L46
23:26 < AnotherOne> does anyone know replacement for this?
23:27 < dav1d> wow you did really write this in c++
23:27 < AnotherOne> yes i did
23:27 < dav1d> 500 lines phew
23:27 < AnotherOne> and without regex
23:28 < AnotherOne> man, fuck python
23:28 < AnotherOne> really
23:28 < AnotherOne> i dont want to fight with own tool to make it work
23:29 < dav1d> if you think blaming the language instead of yourself, that's definitly the correct way to do it
23:30 < AnotherOne> blaming myself? for what?
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23:31 < AnotherOne> for laze to fix retarded python-only encoding problems?
23:32 < dav1d> AnotherOne: are you sure that python does that wrong?
23:32 < AnotherOne> yes
23:32 < dav1d> holy shit
23:33 < dav1d> you have a lot to learn
23:33 < dav1d> python does it actually correctly, c++ doesn't, but it doesn't check it either
23:33 < AnotherOne> so i have no problems
23:34 < dav1d> oh dear
23:34 < AnotherOne> i googled about python encodings
23:34 < AnotherOne> and it is a problem
23:34 < dav1d> "python encodings"
23:34 < dav1d> as if python defined its own encodings
23:34 < AnotherOne> people use huge hacks to solve it
23:35 < dav1d> http://docs.python.org/2/howto/unicode.html
23:35 < dav1d> read this, maybe you will understand a bit more than
23:35 < dav1d> there is no hack at all
23:35 < dav1d> show me one of your "hacks"
23:36 < dav1d> (why am I even trying to proof you wrong, you obviously have no idea what you're talking about)
23:36 < AnotherOne> ok, i will read this
23:37 < dav1d> do whatever you like
23:37 < AnotherOne> are you angry?
23:37 < dav1d> what you deal with in C++ are pure bytes not unicode
23:38 < dav1d> python expects the correct encoding, that's the difference, C++ doesn't care in which datatypes your shit is
23:38 < dav1d> which gets you into trouble if you actually have to deal with something else than ascii
23:38 < AnotherOne> pure bytes are enough to parse raw wiki
23:38 < dav1d> because it is ascii
23:38 < AnotherOne> yes
23:39 < dav1d> btw. I honestly don't understand what's so hard about typing: lxml.html.parse('http://wiki.vg'), returns you even unicode
23:39 < dav1d> +xpath
23:39 < AnotherOne> lxml didn't install
23:40 < dav1d> why don't you use the fucking installer
23:40 < AnotherOne> what is installer?
23:40 < dav1d> probably because your python is installed completly wrong
23:41 < dav1d> http://www.lfd.uci.edu/~gohlke/pythonlibs/#lxml
23:42 <+AndrewPH> story of his life
23:42 < dav1d> y u no have select on files windows :(
23:43 < AnotherOne> blah blah no python in registry
23:43 < AnotherOne> looks like it is really installed wrong
23:43  * dav1d wonders how you can install python on windows incorrectly
23:43 < dav1d> AnotherOne: did you use the installer
23:44 < dav1d> *?
23:44 < AnotherOne> yep
23:44 < dav1d> oh wow, then either your system is uhm strange, or the installer is broken, but both explanations are strange^^
23:44 < AnotherOne> python is strange
23:44 < dav1d> then don't use it?
23:45 < dav1d> also *you think it is strange
23:45 < AnotherOne> this is what happens when you try to install linux software to windows
23:45 < dav1d> how is this linux software
23:45 < AnotherOne> well, linux-oriented
23:45 < AnotherOne> there are absolutely no problems with pythin
23:46 < AnotherOne> python*
23:46 < AnotherOne> i liked it
23:47 < dav1d> I agree getting used to doing unicode correctly is kinda hard at the beginning, python3 makes it a bit easier, in python 2.6 you can do "from __future__ import unicode_literals" to get this behaviour
23:48 < AnotherOne> mb just use python 3?
23:48 < dav1d> AnotherOne: "mb"?
23:48 < AnotherOne> may be
23:49 < AnotherOne> is that phrase incorrect?
23:50 < dav1d> didn't understand mb
23:50 < dav1d> well no idea how much libraries support Python3, should be quite a lot by now
23:50 < dav1d> (python3 is awesome!)
23:50 < AnotherOne> do you use it?
23:52 < dav1d> 50%
23:52 < dav1d> flask was only recently ported, so, I've had to use python2
23:53 < AnotherOne> flask?
23:54 < dav1d> http://flask.pocoo.org
23:55 < AnotherOne> web python
23:55 < AnotherOne> but why?
23:56 < dav1d> why not?
23:57 < AnotherOne> because there are php, ruby
23:58 < dav1d> I bet you never even looked at ruby
23:58 < dav1d> and php, lol
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23:58 < AnotherOne> right
23:58 < dav1d> you never looked at python if you really consider php over python
23:59 < AnotherOne> i looked at php
23:59 < AnotherOne> and used it
23:59 < AnotherOne> it is designed for web programming
23:59 < dav1d> yes but you can't compare it, because you know nothing else
23:59 < dav1d> php is an abused template-engine
--- Day changed sam. juin 08 2013
00:01 < AnotherOne> show me your python site
00:03 < dav1d> it's a private repo
00:03 < dav1d> though what I am currently messing with: https://github.com/Dav1dde/vp
00:05 < AnotherOne> wat is this?
00:05 <+AndrewPH> AnotherOne: youtube.com google.com
00:05 <+AndrewPH> both mostly in python
00:05 < AnotherOne> how do you know?
00:05 < dav1d> AnotherOne: can't you just open a link and read the description?
00:05 <+AndrewPH> http://www.gooli.org/blog/youtube-runs-on-python/
00:06 < AnotherOne> there is no description
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00:06 < dav1d> AnotherOne: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2006-December/070323.html
00:06 < dav1d> AnotherOne: then you should get yourself goggles
00:06 < dav1d> *googgles
00:06 < dav1d> ^(google glass joke)
00:06 < AnotherOne> heh
00:07 < AnotherOne> google glass is a dangerous shit
00:07 <+AndrewPH> not really
00:08 <+AndrewPH> phones are more discreet
00:08 < AnotherOne> i've read about helicopter pilot who used some device for one eye
00:08 -!- eddyb [~eddy@unaffiliated/eddyb] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
00:08 < AnotherOne> in few years his eyes started to move separately
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00:08 < mappum> that sounds like an urban legend
00:09 <+AndrewPH> AnotherOne: AR tech has varied wildly in the past
00:09 <+AndrewPH> google has the resources to ensure that that won't happen in most cases
00:09 < dav1d> I made Eclipse StackOverflow :D
00:10 < AnotherOne> mappum: there was a video
00:10 < mappum> ah, ok
00:10 < AnotherOne> i'll give link if i find it
00:11 <+AndrewPH> i read about a guy who had a glass-like headset
00:11 <+AndrewPH> he mocked the glass for being low-tech in comparison, but his required surgery to put it on
00:11 <+AndrewPH> so, uh
00:11 <+clonejo> dav1d: I would rather go for Lua.
00:11 < dav1d> clonejo: I wasn't serious :)
00:11 <+clonejo> sure :P
00:11 < dav1d> clonejo: but I think the project is pretty cool
00:12 < mappum> AndrewPH: Steve Mann?
00:12 <+clonejo> dav1d: do they support ecmascript completely?
00:12 <+AndrewPH> mappum: possibly
00:12 <+AndrewPH> also AnotherOne, some reasons that PHP is blegh: http://me.veekun.com/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/
00:13 < dav1d> clonejo: *she
00:13 <+clonejo> nice
00:13 < dav1d> clonejo: I think nearly complete v5 of it
00:13 <+clonejo> cool
00:14 <+AndrewPH> afk chilling with gf for a bit
00:15 < mappum> lol, google glass in the 80s: http://spectrum.ieee.org/img/eye02-620px-1360938048957.jpg
00:16 < AnotherOne> http://a1.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/59/5efae069ca1b4286b5ba8166a6aa4ede/l.jpg
00:17 < mappum> AnotherOne: lol
00:18 < AnotherOne> You pull out the hammer, but to your dismay, it has the claw part on both sides. Still serviceable though, I mean, you can hit nails with the middle of the head holding it sideways.
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00:18 < AnotherOne> hahahahahahahaha
00:19 < mappum> someone actually made that hammer in response to that
00:19 < mappum> http://www.codinghorror.com/.a/6a0120a85dcdae970b017742d249d5970d-800wi
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00:22 < AnotherOne> fuck
00:22 < AnotherOne> that article made me cry:D
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00:25 < AnotherOne> hey shoghicp
00:25 < AnotherOne> http://me.veekun.com/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/
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00:54 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2028 5 files : Implemented loading/saving embedded generation parameters from/to map files. Fixed MapFCMv3 losing capitalization of embedded metadata on-load.
01:23 < AnotherOne> i ahve a regex "\\|(.*?)\\n" and string "| Packet ID\n| jajaja\n"
01:23 < AnotherOne> i expect 3 matches: full string, " Packet ID" and " jajaja"
01:23 < AnotherOne> but i get 2
01:24 < AnotherOne> sedond is " Packet ID\n| jajaja"
01:24 < AnotherOne> what is wrong?
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01:33 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2029 2 files : Implemented parameter loading/saving in VanillaMapGen.
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01:44 <+SirCmpwn> AnotherOne: you shouldn't parse complicated things with regex
01:44 <+SirCmpwn> AnotherOne: you should also learn to choose the appropriate channels to present your questions in
01:46 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2030 6 files : Added two new IMapGenerator members: CreateParameters(string presetName):IMapGeneratorParameters and Presets:string[]. Not implemented in any MapGens yet.
01:47 < AnotherOne> it is not so complicated i think
01:48 <+SirCmpwn> AnotherOne: you really shouldn't use it for more than sed and grep, imo
01:48 < AnotherOne> should i continue parsing with string::find?
01:49 <+SirCmpwn> well, in this case, I suppose a regex is probably fine
01:49 <+SirCmpwn> since you don't really need to worry about memory usage or speed
01:49 < AnotherOne> so can you give me a hint?
01:49 <+SirCmpwn> yeah, go to #regex
01:49 <+SirCmpwn> <SirCmpwn> AnotherOne: you should also learn to choose the appropriate channels to present your questions in
01:50 < AnotherOne> well,let's try
01:50 < mappum> AnotherOne: I think you just need more groupings
01:51 < AnotherOne> can you show me an example?
01:54 < mappum> i think you can just add a (.*) to the end if i'm understanding it correctly
01:58 < AnotherOne> it works
01:59 < AnotherOne> so i can't use one my old regex to parse multiple entries in a string?
01:59 < AnotherOne> or do i need to loop parsing?
02:00 < AnotherOne> -one
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02:26 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2031 2 files : Implemented preset handling in AddWorldPopup and FlatMapGen.
02:32 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2032 2 files : Implemented rudimentary preset handling in VanillaMapGen.
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03:30 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2033 5 files : Improved "Load Preset" and "Import Settings" menus. Fixed broken "Ocean" preset in FlatMapGen.
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04:13 <+md_5> >"Working on some funstuff today. Mapmakers may like it, and @SethBling will have to revisit one of his previous projects. :D"
04:13 <+md_5> Priorities guys!
04:32 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2034 2 files : Implemented rudimentary preset handling to FloatingIslandMapGen
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07:44 < AnotherOne> md_5: why not?:)
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07:58 < SinZ> md_5: yet another update where it enhances youtubers, and neglets everyone else
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08:43 < AnotherOne> can anyone help me with regex? #regex is silent
08:43 < AnotherOne> i want to parse text, formatted as | text1\n| text2\n and so on. it is unknown how many lines there are. i tried "(:?\\|(.*?)\\n)*", but it gives me only last line in text. using boost::regex. what am i doing wrong?
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09:56 < Grum> AnotherOne: you dont explain what you want to get from that string
09:56 < Grum> because splitting on '|' would just 'do it'
09:57 < Grum> you do not use a regex unless you *need* it :P
10:07 < AnotherOne> splitting you say...
10:07 < AnotherOne> let's try
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10:48 < AnotherOne> splitting has its own problems
10:50 < Yoshi2> what problems are you thinking of?
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11:12 < AnotherOne> splitting with string delimiter
11:12 < AnotherOne> solved already
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12:51 < AnotherOne> http://www.regex101.com/r/eN1aS5
12:51 < AnotherOne> hell yeah
12:51 < AnotherOne> looks like i'm starting to get regex
12:51 < dav1d> AnotherOne: why?
12:51 < AnotherOne> because it works
12:51 < dav1d> this can easily parsed without a regex
12:51 < dav1d> also this regex will break
12:52 < dav1d> .+ is anyways a bad idea, without an end character
12:52 < dav1d> [.^=]+
12:52 < dav1d> or even
12:52 < dav1d> [.^\(]+
12:55 < dav1d> that website can't understand this regex lol
12:56 < AnotherOne> maybe you are wrong?:)
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12:57 < AnotherOne> \) will follow .+ anyway
12:57 < AnotherOne> so i dont think it needs to be fixed
12:57 < dav1d> AnotherOne: \w[^(]+\(\s*[^)]+\s*\)
12:57 < AnotherOne> well, .+?
12:57 < dav1d> but this could still be better
12:57 < dav1d> of course it needs, except you're parsing only these small chunks at a time
12:58 < barneygale> AnotherOne: good practice with regex is to match the minimum thing you're expecting
12:58 < barneygale> as it's mostly greedy
12:58 < dav1d> what would happen if you regex the whole wiki site at once (as you should do it)
12:58 < AnotherOne> i will not
12:58 < dav1d> then why da fuq are you using a regex?
12:58 < dav1d> split by whitespace, strip out the () done
12:58 < AnotherOne> well
12:59 < AnotherOne> === Chat Message (0x03) ===
12:59 < dav1d> faster to develop, faster in runtime, less errors
12:59 < AnotherOne> how shuold i extract "Chat Message" and "0x03"?
12:59 < dav1d> easy lol
12:59 < dav1d> I can do it in a one-liner
12:59 < AnotherOne> enlighten me
12:59 < dav1d> In [5]: '=== Chat Message (0x03) ==='.strip('=').strip().rsplit(None, 1)
12:59 < dav1d> Out[5]: ['Chat Message', '(0x03)']
12:59 < dav1d> here you go
13:00 < dav1d> removing parens is really trivial
13:00 < dav1d> but I'd use a second line for that
13:00 < dav1d> (still possible in one, with two replaces, but that's ugly)
13:00 < dav1d> _[1][1:-1]
13:00 < barneygale> I'd do it as "=== (.+?) \(0x([0-9A-Z]{2})\) ==="
13:00 < dav1d> In [6]: _[1][1:-1]
13:01 < dav1d> Out[6]: '0x03'
13:01 < dav1d> barneygale: I'd replace " " with \s+
13:01 < barneygale> why?
13:01 < dav1d> barneygale: it comes from html
13:01 < dav1d> and whitespaces don't matter
13:01 <+md_5> why are we doing this :|
13:02 < dav1d> *with regular expressions
13:02 < dav1d> right, no idea
13:02 < AnotherOne> md_5: why not?
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14:16 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±6] http://git.io/R68yEQ
14:16 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 38bf8a3 - Fix some deadlock issues on slower machines
14:16 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 9832784 - Snapshot (13w23b) Update (Chat broken currently)
14:18 < Thinkofdeath> With the new system how do you just do a normal message?
14:25 < AnotherOne> i need your advice, people
14:26 < AnotherOne> types in wiki. some are capitalized, others are not. should i convert all types to lower case in my parser or fix wiki?
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14:28 < dav1d> fix it in your parser, then in the wiki
14:40 < AnotherOne> is fixing wiki to simplify parser ok?
14:41 < AnotherOne> if fixes are unseen to reader
14:42 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/RP3AdA
14:42 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath eea7c10 - Fixed chat to work with the new system (looks like old colour codes still work)
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15:52 < SinZ> AnotherOne: just set it to lower in your parser
15:52 < AnotherOne> SinZ: i already did it
15:52 < AnotherOne> i meant fixing tables a little
15:53 < SinZ> can only fix something that is broken, and they aint broken
15:53 < AnotherOne> http://www.wiki.vg/wiki/index.php?title=Protocol&diff=3898&oldid=3896
15:54 < AnotherOne> that is what i did
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15:58 < TRocket> hi
16:00 < SinZ> hi
16:00 < TRocket> OpenGL is bleh
16:01 < SinZ> then stick to CLI
16:04 < TRocket> yeah, CLI would be easy (We plan on implemeting this) but, the point of our project is for increased perfomance
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16:05 < dav1d> "OpenGL is bleh" → you have to learn a lot
16:08 < TRocket> yup
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17:30 < Thinkofdeath> Anyone know why the player's walking speed is extremely fast on the snapshot? (On my server)
17:34 <+SirCmpwn> which snapshot?
17:35 <+SirCmpwn> 13w23a?
17:35 < Thinkofdeath> yep
17:35 < Thinkofdeath> well b
17:35 <+SirCmpwn> walking speed did change to a float
17:35 <+SirCmpwn> also, tell me everything you know about the latest protocol version
17:36 < Thinkofdeath> Yeah I changed that but I never sent it anyway
17:36 < Thinkofdeath> Also the changes https://github.com/NetherrackDev/netherrack/commit/9832784c1a523afb2d3e527105e9ee71272dad16
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17:37 <+SirCmpwn> Thinkofdeath: you don't just have to change it to a float, you change it to a float and divide by 250 from the old value
17:37 <+SirCmpwn> try sending it, maybe it won't work right without
17:38 < Thinkofdeath> Tried sending it but only the flying speed part works
17:38 < Thinkofdeath> walking speed doesn't change anything
17:38 <+SirCmpwn> what value did you send?
17:38 < Thinkofdeath> 0.05 for flying and 0.1 for walking
17:39 <+SirCmpwn> interesting
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18:20 < Thinkofdeath> SirCmpwn: Changing it does change the fov just not the speed. Not sure whats going on
18:20 <+SirCmpwn> I don't have a functional 13w23b server at the moment, so you're going to have to figure it out yourself
18:21 < Thinkofdeath> damn ok then
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18:30 < bartbart333> Hey
18:30 < bartbart333> Can anybody help me
18:30 < bartbart333> I'm trying to make a minecraft client
18:32 < mbaxter> ok?
18:32 < mbaxter> What's your question
18:33 < bartbart333> How can i connect to a minecraft server
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18:35 < bartbart333> I read the protocol but i don't know how to send the packets
18:35 < bartbart333> btw i'm using java
18:36 < Thinkofdeath> http://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/networking/sockets/ might help
18:36 < bartbart333> I already have a socket and a data in and outputstream
18:38 -!- mh0 is now known as clop0
18:39 < bartbart333> but what do i need to do now
18:40 <+SirCmpwn> learn more about computer science
18:40 -!- clop0 is now known as mh0
18:41 < bartbart333> I do know a lot about computers
18:41 <+SirCmpwn> apparently not enough
18:41 <+SirCmpwn> minecraft is complicated and badly designed
18:41 <+SirCmpwn> if you can't answer your question yourself, you aren't prepared to work with Minecraft
18:42 < barneygale> bartbart333: MC is a bad way to learn network programming. You're diving in at the deep end.
18:43 < bartbart333> I already made a chat program in java so i know how to work with networking but i don't know how to work with a minecraft server
18:44 < barneygale> Why not? What problem are you having?
18:44 < bartbart333> When you connect to the server you need to do writeByte(0x02);
18:44 < bartbart333> I think
18:44 <+SirCmpwn> if you're doing that, you probably won't succeed
18:44 < barneygale> bartbart333: yeah that's right
18:45 <+SirCmpwn> there are more than a hundred packets, you should be making some kind of system to write them for you
18:45 < barneygale> though later on you'll need to write a more high-level definition of packets
18:45 <+SirCmpwn> instead of manually doing writeByte(0x02) on login, you should probably be doing writePacket(new LoginPacket(...))
18:46 < bartbart333> Yeah i know but i'm in a very early stage with this project so thats something i need to do when i know how minecraft works
18:46 < barneygale> that's fine. that's how most folks start
18:48 < bartbart333> but what do i need to do next i think i need to send the protocol id, username, ip and port but how
18:48 < Thinkofdeath> bartbart333: http://docs.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/io/DataOutputStream.html
18:48 < barneygale> bartbart333: http://wiki.vg/Data_Types
18:50 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to refactoring [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/RWHh1g
18:50 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn a7b062a - Fixed inventory bug related to placing blocks
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18:51 < bartbart333> but how do i need to write them
18:51 < bartbart333> what method do i need to use
18:51 <+SirCmpwn> bartbart333: let's think back to my earlier statements
18:51 < bartbart333> thanks
18:52 <+SirCmpwn> why not use one of the many existing minecraft clients as the basis for yours?
18:52 < barneygale> yeah, what are you trying to do? Is this just for fun, or do you have a purpose in mind?
18:52 < bartbart333> Do you know one thats low level so i can learn how minecraft works
18:53 <+SirCmpwn> you probably shouldn't learn how minecraft works, you'll be learning bad habits
18:53 <+SirCmpwn> but Craft.Net has a library that only does networking, if you want
18:53 < bartbart333> its for fun but i'm trying to make a chat client for minecraft
18:55 < bartbart333> Is it so hard to learn how the packets work
18:55 <+SirCmpwn> you should already know, it's all on wiki.vg
18:57 < bartbart333> that says what each packet is
18:57 < bartbart333> but i don't know how to send packets or how to receive
18:57 <+SirCmpwn> and also describes their structure and how they work. It also provides documentation detailing the login procedure, encryption details, and the data types each packets use
18:57 <+SirCmpwn> yes, because that's not our job, that's basic networking
18:58 <+SirCmpwn> we don't document java
18:58 < bartbart333> okay but can you please give code to send a 0x02 packet
18:59 <+SirCmpwn> I've got C# code
18:59 <+SirCmpwn> sadimusi probably has python code
18:59 <+SirCmpwn> dav1d might have D code
18:59 <+SirCmpwn> which would you like?
18:59 < dav1d> wat?
18:59 < dav1d> 0x02?
18:59 < bartbart333> I think you need to do writeByte(0x02); to indicate that it is an 0x02 packet but how to send the args
18:59 < dav1d> as any other packet
18:59 <+SirCmpwn> dav1d: this guy doesn't know his stuff and won't be convinced otherwise
19:00 < bartbart333> If possible java or something that looks like that
19:00 < dav1d> here 0x02 xD
19:00 < dav1d> https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/brala/network/packets/client.d#L23
19:00 <+SirCmpwn> here's mine: https://github.com/SirCmpwn/Craft.Net/blob/refactoring/source/Craft.Net.Networking/Packets.cs#L91
19:01 < dav1d> (new Handshake(60, "username", "host", 2222)).send(stream), done
19:01 <+SirCmpwn> new HandshakePacket(60, "username", "host", 2222).WritePacket(stream), done
19:01 < dav1d> https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/brala/network/connection.d#L115
19:01 < dav1d> the part where it is used
19:01 <+SirCmpwn> https://github.com/SirCmpwn/Craft.Net/blob/master/Craft.Net.Client/MinecraftClient.cs#L77
19:02 < barneygale> bartbart333: the next thing you send is protocol version, which you do via writeByte(protocol version here)
19:02 < barneygale> bartbart333: next you need to write two strings (username and server host). You need to write your own method for encoding strings, because minecraft uses a specific format. You can't just write them to the socket as the server won't know where it ends.
19:04 < bartbart333> i need to go
19:04 < bartbart333> dinner time
19:04 < barneygale> see you soon
19:04 < bartbart333> okay
19:05 < barneygale> SirCmpwn: be nice!
19:06 <+SirCmpwn> I would rather not encourage someone who will obviously fail to waste their time
19:06 <+SirCmpwn> I would instead advise them to learn more about their field before continuing
19:06 <+SirCmpwn> let's see what happens when he gets to encryption
19:07 < barneygale> If he's working in java that shouldn't be too bad
19:07 < barneygale> most of the trouble with encryption is replicating java's behaviour
19:07 <+SirCmpwn> shall we place a bet?
19:08 < barneygale> I'd rather we just help someone who's asked for help
19:08 < barneygale> I didn't know very much about network programming when I started
19:09 < barneygale> MC is a hard way to learn, sure, but he'll learn something along the way and he's only doing it for the experience.
19:09 <+SirCmpwn> he'll learn things along the way that will make him worse off than before
19:09 <+SirCmpwn> and I did give him code snippets
19:09 <+SirCmpwn> surely you knew how to work a stream when you started
19:10 < barneygale> I don't think he'll be worst off. Most of MC's bad habits are more high-level, e.g. threading or use of opengl
19:10 < barneygale> Protocol is getting saner and saner
19:10 < barneygale> much better than it used to be
19:11 <+SirCmpwn> better, yes, but still pretty damn bad
19:11 < barneygale> meh
19:11 < SinZ> its still not really a protocol
19:11 <+SirCmpwn> how many ways can you encode 3D coordinates
19:12 < SinZ> but Mojang don't care to fix it, because "It'll break backwards compatibility", which is why they just add features for youtubers to orgasm over
19:12 <+SirCmpwn> short,byte,short; float,float,float; double,double,double; "absolute int", absint, absint; "absolute byte", absbyte, absbyte; etc
19:12 <+SirCmpwn> surely there are more
19:12 <+SirCmpwn> short, short, short; too
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19:53 < TRocket> ping?
19:54 < TRocket> ping TRocket:ChanServ
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20:03 < dav1d> lol
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20:28 < AnotherOne> bartbart333: if you still need help, http://wiki.vg/How_to_Write_a_Client
20:32 < bartbart333> i'm back
20:33 < bartbart333> i barbecued
20:33 < dav1d> this is good for you!
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20:37 <+SirCmpwn> I wish Mojang would include packet length in the protocol
20:37 <+SirCmpwn> this would make my life so much easier
20:38 <+SirCmpwn> figuring out how long a packet is, that's one of the most annoying parts of reverse engineering the new snapshots
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20:40 < bartbart333> SirCmpwn can you please explain me how to send a full packet
20:40 < bartbart333> i know how to write a byte
20:40 < dav1d> write multiple bytes?
20:40 < dav1d> information is on the wiki
20:40 < bartbart333> but which method do you need to use to write the arguments
20:41 < dav1d> look it up
20:41 < dav1d> the data type name is even on the wiki page, simply look up how you can send it over a socket
20:42 < bartbart333> the wiki says which packet is what but it doesn't give any code or more specific information on how to program it
20:42 < dav1d> bartbart333: it does
20:42 < bartbart333> where
20:42  * SirCmpwn sighs
20:42 < dav1d> it tells you exactly which data type you have to send
20:42 <+SirCmpwn> bartbart333: you write each field of the packet, in order
20:42 <+SirCmpwn> it's not complicated, it's just a stream
20:43 < bartbart333> i'm sorry if i irritate you
20:43 <+SirCmpwn> your ignorance is not irritating
20:43 -!- umby24|offline is now known as umby24
20:44 <+SirCmpwn> your denial of your ignorance is irritating
20:44 < dav1d> bartbart333: all you need to do is constantly write data into the socket, the wiki tells you what you have to write into the stream
20:44 < dav1d> bartbart333: how you write that in the stream, I don't know, but if you already know how to write bytes, then you can also figure out who to write e.g. a short, integer or float
20:45 < dav1d> if you have more specific question we can help you, but we can't write the code for you
20:45 < bartbart333> its eay to write a integer or float or something but you can write a string in multiple ways
20:46 < bartbart333> you can do writeChars or writeUTF or writeBytes
20:46 <+SirCmpwn> it's right there on the wiki
20:47 <+SirCmpwn> http://wiki.vg/Data_Types
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20:47 <+SirCmpwn> UCS-2 string, big-endian. Prefixed by a short containing the length of the string in characters. UCS-2 consists of 16-bit words, each of which represent a Unicode code point between U+0000 and U+FFFF inclusive.
20:48 < Thinkofdeath> The Data Types page should be higher up on the page
20:48 < dav1d> bartbart333: on the wiki, length prefixed as short then UCS-2 (basically utf-16)
20:49 < bartbart333> so if i need to write a string i do writeshort with the length of the string and then i need to write utf16
20:50 <+SirCmpwn> it's UCS-2, not UTF-16
20:50 <+SirCmpwn> did you even read it?
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20:50 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: ...
20:50 < umby24> bartbart333, sounds about right.
20:50 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: UCS2 is basically utf-16
20:51 <+SirCmpwn> the byte ordering is wrong, dav1d
20:51 < dav1d> bartbart333: yes, if you're using java, der should be even a method to write UCS2
20:51 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: no
20:51 <+SirCmpwn> dav1d: really?
20:51 < umby24> and the link on the data types page for UCS-2 takes you to UTF-16 anyways, so that should be corrected if they're incompatible.
20:51 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: UCS2 is basically utf-16 only with a fixed character length of 2 byte
20:51 < bartbart333> yes i did read it but other people say its basically utf 16
20:51 <+SirCmpwn> dav1d: alright then, I thought the byte ordering was reversed
20:51 < dav1d> I just said that...
20:54 < bartbart333> okay i'm gonna try to find out how to write ucs2 to a datastream
20:56 <+ammar2> bartbart333: the writeChars method in DataOutputStream should do the trick
21:05 < bartbart333> I thing i'm getting somewhere
21:05 < bartbart333> the server says bartbart333 lost connection so it did receive my username 
21:06 <+SirCmpwn> you can't *just* send that
21:06 < bartbart333> i know you have to login to the server first
21:06 <+SirCmpwn> there's also encryption to be done, and then you have to handle pings, and then you can chat
21:06 < bartbart333> but i was stuck at sending strings
21:08 < bartbart333> to read incoming packets i think you need to read a byte and then the packet data
21:08 < bartbart333> ?
21:09 <+SirCmpwn> correct
21:09 < bartbart333> i'm finally getting somewhere
21:09 <+SirCmpwn> it would be unwise to use a giant switch...case or a bunch of if statements
21:13 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: how do you dispatch?
21:14 < dav1d> use a fat hash-map?
21:14 < dav1d> (less efficient then a switch-case)
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21:15 <+SirCmpwn> dav1d: I use a constant array of function pointers
21:15 <+SirCmpwn> handlers[packetId](...)
21:15 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: so, a switch case
21:15 <+SirCmpwn> yes, but maintainable
21:16 < dav1d> you haven't seen mine, I guess :D
21:16 <+SirCmpwn> don't need to go poking through a 2k line file to fix it up
21:16 <+SirCmpwn> what do you do?
21:16 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: a switch case :D
21:16 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/brala/network/connection.d#L128
21:17 < dav1d> in 7 lines :)
21:17 <+SirCmpwn> that's kind of sexy
21:17 <+ammar2> thats some nice syntax
21:17 <+ammar2> kinda makes me wanna use d
21:17 < dav1d> (import s = brala.network.packets.server)
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21:18 <+SirCmpwn> var packet = PacketReader.ReadPacket(stream)
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21:18 < dav1d> yeah you went the OOP route
21:18 < dav1d> I have a mix of both
21:18 <+SirCmpwn> https://github.com/SirCmpwn/SMProxy/blob/master/SMProxy/Proxy.cs#L91
21:19 < dav1d> casting to void* and passing the pointer and the id around instead of the super-class
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21:19 < dav1d> not optimal but it "happened"
21:19 <+SirCmpwn> SMProxy has some ugly formatting, I should fix that
21:19 <+SirCmpwn> mixed tabs and spaces
21:19 <+SirCmpwn> probably because MonoDevelop has tabs by default and I forgot to fix it
21:19 < dav1d> yeah github is an ass, displays tabs as 8 whitespaces
21:21 <+ammar2> and for more fun, it displays is at 2 spaces in diff views
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21:21 <+ammar2> s/is at/it as/
21:22 < bartbart333> The server returns -3 is that the same as 0xFD
21:23 <+SirCmpwn> java in once sentence, folks
21:24 <+ammar2> heh
21:24 <+ammar2> use readUnsignedByte bartbart333
21:25 <+ammar2> the method lies btw, it returns an int because java has no unsigned bytes ;)
21:27 < bartbart333> ok now it says 253
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21:27 < umby24> which is 0xFD.
21:28 < bartbart333> but is there a way to recognize that as 0xFD or do you need to figure that that out for every packet
21:29 <+SirCmpwn> do you know what 0xFD actually means, bartbart333
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21:29 < bartbart333> eem no
21:29 <+SirCmpwn> do you know anything other than java, bartbart333
21:30 < bartbart333> not realy except for php html and css
21:30 <+SirCmpwn> >php
21:30 <+SirCmpwn> okay, I shan't help you until you can convince me you aren't a first year CS student
21:31 < umby24> Do you know what hex is, bart?
21:31 < dav1d> bartbart333: 0xFD is FD with a basis of 16
21:32 < dav1d> *base
21:33 < bartbart333> SirCmpwn i'm from the Netherlands and i don't know what CS is
21:33 <+SirCmpwn> computer science
21:33 < umby24> Computer Science..
21:33 <+SirCmpwn> they offer CS courses in the netherlands, you know
21:34  * dav1d is a first year CS student
21:34 < bartbart333> o i'm at high school second year so i'm not a CS student
21:35 <+SirCmpwn> ah, so it's high school
21:35 < redu> bartbart333: if you got a free hour and want to learn more about binary and hex - www.computerscienceforeveryone.com/Course_1/Unit_2/ - go through unit 2
21:35 < bartbart333> i learned java and php myself from videos and a bit from a friend
21:35 <+SirCmpwn> bartbart333: well, let me tell you this: PHP is the worst language there has ever been, and though not nearly as much, Java is largely considered a joke as well
21:35 < bartbart333> binary is with 0101 is it?
21:35 <+SirCmpwn> if you plan to do networking, you should learn a low level language and get to know the metal better
21:36 < redu> bartbart333: it is
21:36 <+sadimusi> I don't see how a lower level language would help with networking
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21:36 < bartbart333> i know php is high level and not realy a programming language and java is also high level and not realy much used for pc's
21:36 <+SirCmpwn> sadimusi: it would help since he doesn't understand signed number or hexadecimal
21:37 <+SirCmpwn> numbers*
21:37 <+SirCmpwn> and getting closer to the metal makes you a better programmer overall
21:37 < bartbart333> yeah but i think its easier to start with somthing more simple like java
21:38 < bartbart333> i'm only 14 so i don't know everything
21:38 <+SirCmpwn> and then you jumped into minecraft, one of the worst network protocols with bad design decisions everywhere to learn from
21:38 < dav1d> sadimusi: a lower level language allows you to make less mistakes
21:38 <+sadimusi> bartbart333: php is a programming language (a horrible one) and java is used by thousands (millions?) of applications
21:39 <+SirCmpwn> html and css are the ones that aren't programming languages, bartbart333
21:39 <+sadimusi> dav1d: you mean if I make mistakes it blows up more?
21:39 < bartbart333> ok but php is realy different than java c++ c and c#
21:39 < dav1d> bartbart333: never give up! stuff is confusing at first, but once you get it, it's makes so much sense
21:40 <+SirCmpwn> if it blows up violently enough, it's more noticeable
21:40 < dav1d> sadimusi: mh, you could phrase it like that :P
21:40 <+sadimusi> SirCmpwn: that's one of the reasons why php is so horrible :)
21:40 < dav1d> but starting programming with a lower level language, I don't recommend that
21:40 <+SirCmpwn> you get a stack trace and a nice error message and a debugger if you use C, sadimusi
21:41 < bartbart333> yeah i started with php and now java
21:41 <+sadimusi> dav1d: at first I thought you were saying that low level langs are more tolerant for mistakes
21:41 < dav1d> sadimusi: ha! definitly not
21:41 <+SirCmpwn> bartbart333: forget about minecraft for a few years. Learn python.
21:41 < AnotherOne> no
21:41 < dav1d> yeah the "allow" doesn't quite fit in there
21:41 <+SirCmpwn> learn C when you're comfortable with python
21:42 < AnotherOne> no python
21:42 <+SirCmpwn> AnotherOne: why not
21:42 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: because he doesn't get encodings and now blames python for it
21:42 <+SirCmpwn> AnotherOne: he started on PHP, for goodness sake
21:42 < AnotherOne> why learn C after python?
21:42 < bartbart333> but i do know a lot of java i know a bit of lwjgl i made a chat server and client and a lot of other projects
21:42 <+SirCmpwn> python is a good first language
21:42 <+SirCmpwn> C is a good low level language
21:42 < dav1d> bartbart333: keep on doing what you enjoy
21:42 < dav1d> the rest comes from alone
21:42 < AnotherOne> python will make him a mind deformation
21:42 <+SirCmpwn> python will introduce him to programming, C will make him skilled
21:43 < dav1d> AnotherOne: could you please stop with you unquilified messages, which are simply wrong
21:43 < dav1d> why will C make him skilled o.O
21:43 < dav1d> you all have strange understandings
21:44 < AnotherOne> because C is good
21:44 <+SirCmpwn> dav1d: forces him to get closer to the metal
21:44 < AnotherOne> python and company are languages for lazy people