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19:03 < kev009__> TkTech: what's the cleanup script?
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19:16 < TkTech> kev009__: Hmm, I forget the name, one moment
19:17 < TkTech> kev009__: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:RemoveUnusedAccounts.php
19:17 < TkTech> kev009__: That *should* nuke about 99% of them
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21:15 < workshifter> so the chunk location array holds 4 bytes per chunk, the first 3 being offset... what exactly is the fourth?
21:15 < workshifter> minecraftwiki.net says "sector count", but i can't seem to find any real description of it
21:17 < clonejo_> workshifter: Which packet are you referring to?
21:17 < workshifter> is that as simple as the number of sections in that chunk? e.g. 16 in all cases for a fully-generated chunk?
21:17 < workshifter> http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Region_file_format#Chunk_Location
21:18 < dexter0> sector count refers to the size of the chunk within the region file *4096 (the size of a sector).
21:18 < workshifter> yay for more days spent at work trying to find a chunk error bug in this region writer library that i didn't create, lol
21:19 < workshifter> how could it, if it's only one byte?
21:19 < dexter0> because 1 byte has range of 0-255
21:19 < workshifter> seems like 4096 is slightly larger than that
21:19 < workshifter> lol
21:19 < dexter0> multiplied by 4096 it is sufficient 
21:19 < dexter0> No, chunk size = sector count * 4096
21:19 < workshifter> ah
21:19 < workshifter> h
21:20 < workshifter> hm
21:20 < dexter0> you won't have a chunck with size > 255*4096
21:20 < workshifter> yeah
21:22 < workshifter> would it be safe to then just set that byte to 255 across the board?
21:22 < workshifter> rather than the 1 it currently is?
21:23 < dexter0> not really, you'll bloat your region files unnecessarily.
21:24 < workshifter> then what's the practical consequence of it being 1 when the file gets written?
21:25 < workshifter> context: i'm attempting to debug chunk errors in a region file writer written by a friend
21:25 < dexter0> it means the chunk is taking up 4096 bytes of space
21:25 < dexter0> 1*4096 = 4096
21:25 < dexter0> err less than or equal to 4096 bytes of space.
21:26 < workshifter> soo
21:26 < workshifter> hang on, i might be connecting something here
21:26 < workshifter> http://i.imgur.com/TJ3F9y4.png
21:26 < workshifter> this is the region i created
21:26 < dexter0> I can't look at links atm.
21:27 < workshifter> and if memory serves, the chunk errors seem to happen around the "thicker" parts of the map
21:27 < workshifter> could it be that said sector count byte being hard-set is screwing with MC's interpretation of where that chunk data is?
21:27 < dexter0> are you reading or writing?
21:27 < workshifter> writing
21:28 < dexter0> ok, you need to have all of the chunks compressed and know their compressed size.
21:28 < workshifter> 4096 refers to the max size of a given section, correct?
21:28 < dexter0> then you write out the region file header.
21:28 < workshifter> i can get the compressed size of the chunk data easily enough
21:28 < dexter0> then you start writing each chunk, keeping track of where in the file you wrote it and how large it is (each rounded to 4096)
21:29 < dexter0> then you re-write the header with this information filled in
21:29 < dexter0> That is, every chunk starts on a 4096 boundary and takes up a multiple of 4096 bytes of space no matter how large it actually is
21:30 < workshifter> i think i see
21:30 < dexter0> cail(size/4096) = sector count for that chunk
21:30 < dexter0> ceil*
21:30 < workshifter> so the artifact i'm seeing is a result of MC loading the region file, and every now and then, running into a chunk that's 2*4096 bytes (for example), but being told that it's only 4096 anyway
21:31 < dexter0> likely
21:31 < workshifter> it's always nice when the line of code in question has a comment //No idea
21:31 < workshifter> lol
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21:45 < workshifter> yup, that looks like the problem
21:45 < workshifter> explains why it's only "dense" chunks that glitch 
21:46 < dexter0> which library is this btw?
21:46 < workshifter> a custom one a friend of mine wrote
21:46 < workshifter> lol
21:46 < workshifter> as he was writing a custom raytracer...
21:46 < dexter0> ah, what lang.?
21:46 < workshifter> c#
21:48 < workshifter> it's currently working in conjunction with a procedural region generator i wrote in xna
21:48 < workshifter> fun project
21:48 < workshifter> any idea how mc's built-in worldgen works? not the algorithms, but the process, the acquiring of the data
21:48 < workshifter> the ultimate goal would be to completely replace the skylands worldgen on my server
21:49 < workshifter> because fuck the end, skylands was better
21:49 < dexter0> no idea about worldgen.  It's an interesting problem but not one I'm interested in.
21:50 < workshifter> it'd be awesome if mc said "give me the chunk data at world chunk x,y,z", and the function just returned that
21:50 < workshifter> i could hijack that no problem
21:51 < dexter0> If you do build a functional MC-like world gen in c#, SirCmpwn over in #craft.net might be interested in adding it to his custom c# server.
21:54 <+SpaceManiac> workshifter: it actually is approximately like that
21:54 < workshifter> woot
21:54 < workshifter> the same NBT format?
21:54 <+SpaceManiac> I don't know the precise internals, just the general process
21:55 < workshifter> ah
21:55 <+SpaceManiac> two steps - generate all needed chunks (16x16x256), then populate ones that aren't on the edge (trees, villages, etc.)
21:55 < workshifter> i gotta say, i kinda like my trees better than minecraft's, lol
21:55 < workshifter> same with vegetation distribution in general
21:56 < workshifter> my vegetation maps are also affected by elevation, so there aren't really dense forests near the top of the map, only at the bottom
21:56 < workshifter> however, i do need the flag that tells MC to generate ores
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22:03 < TkTech> workshifter: Which library?
22:03 < workshifter> TkTech: custom
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22:23 < workshifter> yup, that was it
22:24 < workshifter> thanks, dexter0
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22:28 -!- mode/#mcdevs [-b *!~asd@static-71-174-73-11.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] by TkTech
22:28 -!- mode/#mcdevs [-bbbb libminecraft!*@* *!*@*24-197-239-170* *!*quassel@*.members.linode.com *!*Shnaw@*.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] by TkTech
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22:38 < workshifter> o_O
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22:48 < dx> well.. uhh...
22:48 < dx> clearing the ban list is usually not a good idea in any channel, but whatever.
22:49 < dx> and i suspect sircmpwn won't bother to rejoin
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22:59 < TkTech> dx: Most of those haven't been here in years, and you need to clean it since it's capped.
23:00 < TkTech> I've been here for 6 years, 35 weeks, 4 days. Think I've got the gist of it.
23:00 < dx> lol.
23:00 < dx> oh you did keep a few
23:01 < dx> nevermind then.
23:01 < TkTech> Of course, I'm not going to just nuke the entire list ;\
23:01 < dx> there's people who do that
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23:34 < shoghicp> TkTech: is notifico down?
23:34 < shoghicp> even the domain
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00:49 < rizorko> Hi there! Can you help me? I want to simply send ping test result from my VB.Net Server to MC 1.4.7 client. How can I do that?
00:49 <+sadimusi> hi
00:49 < rizorko> Oh, and sorry for my English, i'm from Russia...
00:49 <+sadimusi> do you have any knowledge of the minecraft protocol already?
00:50 < rizorko> A little
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00:50 < rizorko> I investigated this link: http://mc.kev009.com/Protocol
00:50 <+sadimusi> the ping mechanic has it's own page: http://wiki.vg/Server_List_Ping
00:51 < rizorko> I need a really simple programm on Vb.Net, that will send result packet to client... I saw that page
00:51 <+sadimusi> basically the client sends you a single 0xfe byte and you have to reply with a kick packet
00:51 < rizorko> I can't for mresult byte array to send
00:52 < rizorko> My client says "Connection Error"
00:52 <+sadimusi> I have absolutely no knowledge of VB.Net, but you have to find a way to encode your answer as a UCS-2 string
00:53 < rizorko> How can I form string of the responce? In human-readable form? Then, I can encode it to UCS-2 and send as byte array
00:54 <+sadimusi> you can try it with any string first, the client will display it
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00:55 <+sadimusi> later you should encode all your server's information in this string as is described on the wiki
00:55 < rizorko> Are u sure? I sent the responce, that contained "Blah", and client sayed "Connection Error".
00:55 < ughman> you can encode to big endian UTF-16 pretty easily, which is similar enough
00:56 < rizorko> http://puu.sh/37Lvu.png Same result, "Connection Error"
00:57 <+sadimusi> I'm pretty sure your packet isn't formatted correctly
00:57 <+sadimusi> you have to send 0xff, followed by the length of your string as a big endian short
00:57 <+sadimusi> then comes the string as UCS-2 / UTF-16
00:58 < rizorko> Can you form it on Vb.Net or C#? Or even on C++ ?
00:59 < rizorko> In vanilla MC server, I can't find a part of code, that sends this info
01:00 < rizorko> I can't even navigate trougn that code
01:00 < rizorko> It's really big and messy
01:00 <+sadimusi> you can use mcp to unobfuscate it a bit
01:01 <+sadimusi> craft.net is written in c#, maybe that helps you
01:01 <+sadimusi> https://github.com/SirCmpwn/Craft.Net/blob/master/Craft.Net/Packets.cs#L3036
01:02 <+sadimusi> https://github.com/SirCmpwn/Craft.Net/blob/master/Craft.Net/MinecraftStream.cs#L276
01:02 <+sadimusi> I have to go now, I have an exam in 12 hours and still a lot of learning to do
01:03 < rizorko> Thanks a lot for help
01:03 < rizorko> I'll have a look at craft.net
01:10 < rizorko> Anyohe here?
01:10 < rizorko> Tried to do like craft.net, but the same problem
01:13 < ughman> send 0xFF byte, send length of string in characters as 2 bytes big endian, send UCS-2 string
01:14 < rizorko> 0xFF is the same as ClientStream.WriteByte(254), right?
01:21 < ughman> no
01:21 < ughman> it's 255
01:21 < ughman> FE is 254
01:22 < rizorko> Still, nothing... http://puu.sh/37Mqu.png
01:22 < ughman> err
01:23 < rizorko> What?
01:23 < ughman> where are you getting 254 from
01:23 < rizorko> The wiki says, that I can ignore size bytes...
01:24 < rizorko> "You can actually ignore the length..."
01:24 < ughman> huh
01:24 < ughman> where does it say that
01:25 < rizorko> http://mc.kev009.com/Server_List_Ping, "Server -> Client" section
01:25 < ughman> oh, no
01:25 < ughman> they're saying that if you write a client you can ignore the length
01:26 < ughman> the server has to send the right length to the client
01:27 < rizorko> I need to send it two times?
01:29 < rizorko> I can't understand this bytes and encodings...
01:30 < rizorko> Why it's so simple in Java?
01:32 < ughman> http://pastebin.com/Kbsb8J6x
01:33 < ughman> this is what I have
01:33 < ughman> I'd do WriteByte(0xFF) and then WriteString("Test kick message")
01:33 < ughman> also you can do something like 0xFF in vb.net
01:33 < ughman> it's like
01:33 < ughman> &HFF I think
01:34 < ughman> sorry for all the separate messages, I do that usually on irc
01:35 < rizorko> How should I encode your "Test kick message" in Vb.net?
01:35 < rizorko> Can you push me a screenshot of this function?
01:35 < rizorko> I mean WriteString
01:36 < ughman> I can try to make it into vb.net but I haven't used that language in a while
01:38 < rizorko> That will be great, thanks!
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01:45 < ughman> rizorko: maybe this? http://pastebin.com/7BmUUVU7
01:47 < rizorko> WriteBuffer?
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01:51 < ughman> http://pastebin.com/tMfWAbUJ
01:52 < rizorko> Argh... I knew it...
01:52 < rizorko> Thanks, i'll try
01:54 < rizorko> So, right near ping level in Multiplayer menu, I see 1.3. What should I do to send MOTD and online?
01:55 < ughman> 1.3 as in, the version number 1.3?
01:55 < rizorko> Yes
01:55 < rizorko> "Server is outdated!"
01:55 < ughman> hmm, don't know that one, sorry
01:56 < ughman> oh
01:56 < ughman> http://mc.kev009.com/Server_List_Ping
01:56 < ughman> at the server->client part there
01:57 < rizorko> Can you form me the responce using WriteString and WriteByte? Cause i hate this bytes, bits, digits...
01:57 < rizorko> I can't understand the structure of this packetn
02:00 < ughman> they make a bunch of strings and join them together into one string with VbNullChar in between them
02:02 < rizorko> What protocol # should I use for 1.4.7?
02:02 < ughman> I do not know
02:02 < rizorko> By the way, http://puu.sh/37NPj.png
02:03 <+SirCmpwn> rizorko: show me your code
02:03 <+SirCmpwn> no promises, since I'm a C# guy, but I grok .NET
02:04 < rizorko> Sure, http://pastebin.com/fDAbdpY6
02:04 <+SirCmpwn> rizorko: also, see this: https://github.com/SirCmpwn/Craft.Net/blob/master/Craft.Net.Server/Handlers/PacketHandlers.cs#L46
02:05 <+SirCmpwn> Dim inBytes As Byte() = Encoding.Unicode.GetBytes("Ahaha")
02:05 <+SirCmpwn> needs to be Dim inBytes As Byte() = Encoding.BigEndianUnicode.GetBytes("Ahaha")
02:05 <+SirCmpwn> ah, forget it, you discard that variable without using it
02:06 < rizorko> Yup
02:06 <+SirCmpwn> rizorko: so you're using a 1.3.x client to ping this server, and it shows as outdated?
02:06 < rizorko> So, my client just shows me 1.3, red cross over ping level and no MOTD...
02:07 < rizorko> I use 1.4.7
02:07 < rizorko> I am using *
02:07 <+SirCmpwn> that's quite interesting
02:07 <+SirCmpwn> are you accidentally running another server on the same machine?
02:07 < rizorko> No, 100%
02:07 <+SirCmpwn> Minecraft just writes out the value you give it, it'd say your server was version "foo" if you said so
02:08 < rizorko> I gave it 1.4.7, you can see pastebin and check it
02:08 <+SirCmpwn> rizorko: try flushing the underlying stream before closing the client
02:09 <+SirCmpwn> rizorko: also, I know you're targeting 1.4.7, but have you considered giving Craft.Net a try? It already supports all of this
02:10 < rizorko> SirCmpwn: Flushed, nothing changed
02:10 <+SirCmpwn> how interesting
02:11 <+SirCmpwn> rizorko: would you run it through SMProxy and give me the log?
02:11 < rizorko> Also, about craft.net - I am trying to write a server specially for our host machine...
02:11 <+SirCmpwn> rizorko: You needn't use all of Craft.Net, it offers a library that just does the networking and nothing else
02:13 < rizorko> Can I have an exe for SMProxy?
02:13 < TkTech> shoghicp: (#notifico, FYI) Yes, digitalocean fucked up. Back up.
02:14 <+SirCmpwn> rizorko: note: this executable is for 1.5, but the ping stuff didn't change
02:14 <+SirCmpwn> rizorko: http://sircmpwn.github.io/SMProxy/downloads/SMProxy-1.5.exe
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02:16 < rizorko> SirCmpwn: I can't see the logfile
02:16 <+SirCmpwn> rizorko: how did you invoke SMProxy
02:16 < rizorko> Huh, understood
02:16 < rizorko> I used dclick
02:17 <+SirCmpwn> rizorko: it's a command line tool, even though double clicking it will probably work
02:17 <+SirCmpwn> rizorko: run it and add "localhost:25564" to your minecraft server list
02:18 < rizorko> Crashed
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02:18 < rizorko> Your tool
02:18 <+SirCmpwn> give exception
02:18 <+SirCmpwn> in a pastebin, not the channel
02:18 < rizorko> It closed
02:18 <+SirCmpwn> run it from a command line
02:19 < rizorko> It sayed "server disconnected:" and that's all
02:19 <+SirCmpwn> and you should have a log file
02:20 < rizorko> There it is
02:20 < rizorko> http://pastebin.com/AZzaJiSj
02:20 <+SirCmpwn> well would you look at that
02:21 < rizorko> By the way - my minecraft is forge modded. If it is reasonable.
02:21 <+SirCmpwn> you aren't actually writing the string
02:21 <+SirCmpwn> you write a string whose length is zero
02:21 < rizorko> I used ughman's functions
02:22 < rizorko> Probably, from your server
02:22 <+SirCmpwn> ughman's functions?
02:22 < dx> oh hi SirCmpwn
02:22 <+SirCmpwn> why not grab the Craft.Net MinecraftStream code and wrap your network stream in it
02:22 <+SirCmpwn> hi dx
02:23 < rizorko> Sir, you can see my source and check it
02:23 < rizorko> I can't understand, where's the problem
02:23 <+SirCmpwn> it looks fine, but I'm not certain, because it's VB
02:23 <+SirCmpwn> (and I don't know VB)
02:24 < rizorko> It's pretty the same as C Sharp
02:24 <+SirCmpwn> I've always wondered
02:24 <+SirCmpwn> what is "Dim" short for in VB
02:24 < ughman> it's a declaration
02:24 < ughman> I think I see what's wrong
02:25 <+SirCmpwn> yeah, but declaration doesn't start with dim
02:25 < rizorko> ughman, what?
02:25 < ughman> Dim buffer(1) As Byte
02:25 < ughman> should be 0 not 1
02:25 <+SirCmpwn> wat
02:25 <+SirCmpwn> doesn't that declare an array whose length is 1 byte
02:25 < ughman> Dim buffer(0) in vb.net is actually short for Dim buffer(0 To 0)
02:25 < ughman> so 1 is 0 to 1 which has 2 bytes
02:25 < ughman> it's stupid
02:26 < ughman> but it's carried over from vb6 and its past
02:26 <+SirCmpwn> alright, but that doesn't really fix the problem
02:26 <+SirCmpwn> http://pastebin.com/AZzaJiSj
02:26 < rizorko> http://puu.sh/37OE9.png
02:26 <+SirCmpwn> what he should really do there is just use stream.writebyte
02:27 < rizorko> Alright, http://puu.sh/37OGX.png
02:27 < rizorko> It worked!
02:27 < rizorko> But why 1.4.7 is red crossed?
02:27 <+SirCmpwn> how did you change the code?
02:28 <+SirCmpwn> 1.47 is protocol version 52, not 50
02:28 < rizorko> Just cutted one vbNullChar before "$1"
02:28 <+SirCmpwn> should've seen that, sorry
02:29 < rizorko> That's my stupid error
02:29 <+SirCmpwn> wait, what
02:29 <+SirCmpwn> your code doesn't have that
02:29 < rizorko> So, what about red cross near 1.4.7?
02:29 <+SirCmpwn> >1.47 is protocol version 52, not 50
02:29 < rizorko> I didn't understand the wiki in the right way
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02:30 <+SirCmpwn> the wiki is hard to read when you're trying to support old versions
02:30 < rizorko> I hav ver 52
02:30 <+SirCmpwn> WriteString("§1" + vbNullChar + "50" + vbNullChar + "1.4.7" + vbNullChar + "Test" + vbNullChar + "20" + vbNullChar + "30", ClientStream)
02:30 <+SirCmpwn> needs to be 52
02:30 < rizorko> It's 52
02:31 <+SirCmpwn> same problem?
02:31 < rizorko> Ok, i want to sleep
02:31 < rizorko> So, thanks a lot for help
02:31 < rizorko> I'll join at mornung
02:31 < rizorko> morning*
02:31 < rizorko> Bye
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02:31 < ughman> heh
02:34 <+SirCmpwn> I wonder if that guy will be successful
02:35 < ughman> I have doubts
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02:50  * dx pokes SirCmpwn
02:50 <+SirCmpwn> hello dx
02:51  * SpaceManiac whistles
02:51 < dx> SirCmpwn: sup, i, uhm, wanted to ask. did you learn to be a nice person while you were away from this channel?
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02:52  * dx never had problems with SirCmpwn but is worried about people who did in the past
02:53 <+SirCmpwn> I'm only here because TkTech /invited me here
02:53 <+SirCmpwn> I don't intend to answer such questions
02:53 < dx> hah
02:54 < TkTech> dx: That's an incredibly stupid question and honestly you should know better.
02:54 < dx> TkTech: :D
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02:57 < dx> i sure feel like saying childish things today
02:58 < dx> and that's not a good mood to talk about serious topics.
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04:29 < kryton> hey.. I want to write a plugin that runs in a separate thread via bukkit ideally. I understand MC is singlethreaded so I was wondering how others have approached this
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05:02 <+SpaceManiac> kryton: you'll get more Bukkit help on their channels, but the gist of it is do your 'heavy lifting' on a separate thread and exchange with MC itself on the main thread
05:02 < kryton> y.. i'll ask there.. i was hoping I could cut+paste something ;-)
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05:50 <+SirCmpwn> sadimusi: you know that burger has been broken for all the most recent snapshots, right?
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06:30 < kev009__> TkTech: it only considers activated accounts or something.  it only finds 3
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11:23 < nastyCreeper> hi
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12:41 < nastyCreeper> lol @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St0ZXOrxctY
12:48 <+md_5> <md_5> .haspaid testnick
12:48 <+md_5> <CafeBabe> (md_5) The account "testnick" is not a premium Minecraft account!
12:48 <+md_5> please explain
12:49 <+md_5> or are you just using that 'nick' to hide the fact your account isnt premium
12:49 <+md_5> also that is the glitchiest pig ever
12:50 < barneygale> nastyCreeper doesn't have an account
12:50 < unnicked893> md_5 that wasn't me playing
12:50 < nastyCreeper> unnicked893 ?
12:50 <+md_5> testnick isnt an account either
12:51 < unnicked893> testnick looks like temporary nick for testing
12:52 < nastyCreeper> unnicked893: who are you?
12:52 < unnicked893> a nobody
12:52 <+md_5> why dafaq do you need a captcha
12:52 < nastyCreeper> md_5 no idea but i like it :)
12:52 < barneygale> is the captcha your idea nastyCreeper ?
12:52 <+md_5> also
12:52 < nastyCreeper> no it was before me
12:53 < barneygale> hold on, you're a dev for nessus? I thought you maintained you didn't know pbunny?
12:53 < barneygale> or am I getting mixed up
12:53 < SinZ> ^
12:53 < SinZ> Pbunny didn't have a valid MC account either
12:53 < nastyCreeper> barneygale: i got to know him after all your shouting about him
12:54 < barneygale> oh come on
12:54 < nastyCreeper> and now i dev some stuff there
12:54 < nastyCreeper> are you accusing me of something again?
12:54 < barneygale> Did I ever stop/
12:54 < nastyCreeper> well you should have long ago
12:54 < nastyCreeper> it's not constructive to purpose of this channel
12:55 < SinZ> well if we are going to have a ban list, we may aswell keep it functional
12:55 < barneygale> It's not constructive to allow banned users, users who argue with the mojang devs about pointless bullshit, and users who build servers that facilitate piracy to allow in this channel.
12:55 < barneygale> err
12:55 < barneygale> Switch that last "allow" for "remain" ;D
12:56 < nastyCreeper> can you proof any of your statements?
12:57 < SinZ> you were first join after he was banned, and wanted to dev in C, and have the exact same attitude
12:57 < barneygale> iirc the first thing you did was complain about OOP
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12:57 < barneygale> I can't think of another user since I joined this channel in ~november 2011 who did that
12:57 < nastyCreeper> SinZ: my attitude is ok, seeing how he is slandering me 24/7
12:58 < SinZ> I highly doubt he is slandering you during sleep, and when he is sleeping
12:58 < nastyCreeper> barneygale: all serious C coders hate oop
12:58 < barneygale> You're not a coder.
12:58 < nastyCreeper> i.e. try telling about advantages of oop in ##c
12:59 < barneygale> What? You try telling them OOP has no place in a large game server. Or don't, because there's no point bringing 3rd parties into this really
12:59 < barneygale> Sticking closer to home, does anyone in this channel agree with you?
13:00 < barneygale> I can't recall anyone ever voicing any support for your position.
13:00 < nastyCreeper> must they agree? i'm fine with my opinions as they are
13:00 < barneygale> And what supports your position? You yourself say that computer science is bullshit, and there's no place for theory in coding.
13:00 < nastyCreeper> barneygale: well pbunny agrees with me :)
13:00 < barneygale> alts do not count.
13:00 < SinZ> he is also banned in ##c
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13:01 < nastyCreeper> SinZ: don't see ban for him there
13:01 < barneygale> You can't exactly say you have an advantage in education, nor in experience. The people who disagree with you outweigh you on both those fronts.
13:01 < nastyCreeper> obviously they don't ban for disliking oop and java :)
13:01 < nastyCreeper> education and experience aren't the most important part in programming
13:01 < nastyCreeper> ability to think is
13:02 < barneygale> And you think you're better at that than everyone else here?
13:02 <+Zaneo> Which generally comes from?
13:02 < nastyCreeper> barneygale: where did i say so?
13:02 < nastyCreeper> Zaneo: good genes, good health, good brain configuration
13:02 <+Zaneo> >education and experience
13:02 < nastyCreeper> anybody can get education and experience
13:02 < barneygale> Well, your position that OOP and Java are bad comes from your rationale that the best coders don't need experience and education, they need "an ability to think" (I love how you think these are disjoint)
13:03 < SinZ> experience is the only way to get good in programming
13:03 < nastyCreeper> barneygale: they need knowledge, but that's not the only thing they need
13:03 < edk> SinZ: experience is necessary but not suffcient
13:03 < edk> sufficient, too
13:03 < nastyCreeper> and in modern world, google can give knowledge any time you need it
13:03 < barneygale> So if we think Java and OOP have a place in a game that resolves around objects and hierarchy, does that mean we "think" worse than you?
13:03 < nastyCreeper> so keeping knowledge in memory is not that important now
13:04 < nastyCreeper> barneygale: can you describe the reasons why OOP have a place there?
13:04 <+Zaneo> nastyCreeper, this isn't really the channel for it...
13:04 < barneygale> Certainly. I mostly work with proxies. OOP allows me to write multiple protocol handlers for different versions of minecraft, without reusing code.
13:05 <+Zaneo> and by "it" I mean bickering
13:05 < edk> uh, do you mean with reuisng code?
13:05 <+md_5> switch (packetId) {
13:05 <+md_5>     switch (protocol version) {
13:05 < nastyCreeper> md_5 ++
13:05 < nastyCreeper> easy as that
13:05 <+md_5>        case 63: readInt();
13:05 <+md_5>    }
13:05 <+md_5> }
13:05 <+md_5> that was not a demonstration of easiness
13:05 < nastyCreeper> anyway, supporting multiple protocols isn't normally needed
13:05 < nastyCreeper> so it's a bad example
13:05 < SinZ> maintaining multiple protocol versions is a nice feature though
13:05 <+md_5> http://www.dotnetperls.com/oop
13:05 < nastyCreeper> or you could also say that oop is good because you can combine mc server with http and ftp server
13:06 < barneygale> what?
13:06 < barneygale> do you even know what oop is?
13:06 < edk> nastyCreeper: suppose I want to find a substring in the string "foobaraarbarbarbarbarpx123".
13:06 <+md_5> barneygale yes, its where you allocate stack memory with malloc(..)
13:06 < nastyCreeper> yes, it's a weird curly braces flood
13:06 < edk> nastyCreeper: without referring to theory, what's the most efficient way to do so?
13:06 <+md_5> what about good old jeff atwood: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2007/03/your-code-oop-or-poo.html
13:07 < nastyCreeper> edk: why do you ask?
13:07 < edk> nastyCreeper: to see what your answer is
13:07 < nastyCreeper> well you find first char in substring, they loop finding 2, 3 and so on until you miss one, then you find first char starting from last position
13:08 < nastyCreeper> if you find all ones you break
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13:08 < nastyCreeper> first char of substring in string *
13:09 <+Zaneo> nastyCreeper, there are books dedicated to string searching
13:09 < edk> that's not the most efficient way but more importantly it'll actually miss strings
13:09 < edk> in my example, take the substring "barbarbarp"
13:09 < edk> your search finds the first "barbarbar", starts at the end (beginning of "barp") and misses that too
13:09 < nastyCreeper> Zaneo: good. there are also books dedicated to cooking
13:09 < edk> try again
13:10 < nastyCreeper> or collecting butterflies
13:10 <+Zaneo> nastyCreeper, for which people attempting to get better at said skill usually read
13:10 <+md_5> > claims not to be pbunny
13:10 <+md_5> > works on same project as pbunny
13:10 < barneygale> md_5: kb him already
13:10 < barneygale> and ban all nessus devs
13:10 <+md_5> > not listed as author of said project, whilst pbunny is
13:10 < barneygale> they facilitate piracy
13:10 < nastyCreeper> barneygale: wow you're really mad now
13:10 <+md_5> barneygale I cant?
13:11 < nastyCreeper> barneygale: what piracy?
13:11 < nastyCreeper> stop spreading shit here
13:11 < barneygale> Oh you're only +v
13:11 < edk> :(
13:11 <+Zaneo> Do we need a kickban?
13:11 < barneygale> I'm colourblind as fuck, sorry
13:11 <+md_5> whats the silly freenode list command
13:11 < edk> /cs access #mdevs list
13:11 < SinZ> nastyCreeper: ...both you and pbunny don't have an MC account, yet you still filmed a showcase of the server
13:11 < edk> mcdevs, too
13:11 <+md_5> its like /cs show access #channel or something
13:11 < nastyCreeper> SinZ: i have an account.
13:11 <+md_5> nope, no unexpected promotions for me
13:12 < barneygale> bah
13:12 <+md_5> Website coding
13:12 <+md_5> your website
13:12 <+md_5> is so pro
13:12 < barneygale> nastyCreeper: last time I asked you, you wouldn't tell me what it was
13:12 <+md_5> must have whole team dedicated to that
13:12 < edk> md_5: where is his website?
13:12 <+md_5> http://nessus.lv/ourteam
13:12 < nastyCreeper> barneygale: until court requests it from me, i am not obliged to
13:12 < nastyCreeper> feel free to place a trial
13:12 <+md_5> ooh his server is up: nessus.lv:6374
13:12 < barneygale> nastyCreeper: you seem to be confusing #mcdevs with the US government
13:13 < barneygale> you don't have 5th amendment rights here.
13:13 < nastyCreeper> barneygale: #mcdevs don't have "tell us your account name" rule
13:13 < zutto> wait, this channel isnt directly linked to whitehouse and US leaders?
13:13 < edk> zutto: it is, TkTech runs the universe
13:13 < barneygale> nastyCreeper: nor does it have a rule whereby your refusal to divulge the name can't be used against you.
13:13 -!- mode/#mcdevs [+o Zaneo] by ChanServ
13:13 < zutto> edk: oh good, for a moment there i was wondering why i was here
13:13 < nastyCreeper> Zaneo: don't.
13:13 <+md_5> who dafaq is Zaneo 
13:14 <@Zaneo> Don't what?
13:14 < nastyCreeper> don't do what these morons ask you to
13:14 < nastyCreeper> i.e. ban nessus devs
13:14 <@Zaneo> Don't cause problems
13:14 < barneygale> Zaneo: have a really nice day
13:14 < nastyCreeper> Zaneo: do i cause?
13:14 < nastyCreeper> they just spread stuff like i don't have account name, server is about piracy, etc
13:15 < nastyCreeper> well at least they don't claim me making cp
13:15 <+md_5> http://screencloud.net/v/4UXs
13:15 <@Zaneo> yeah just a little, you've made a number of inflammatory comments
13:15 < edk> I'd like to point out that I don't claim any of those things, I just think you're an annoying troll without any skills
13:15 < SinZ> ^
13:15 <+md_5> "This server has online-mode=false"
13:15 < nastyCreeper> edk: feel f ree to keep your opinion
13:15 -!- mode/#mcdevs [-o Zaneo] by Zaneo
13:15 < nastyCreeper> md_5: discuss it with pbunny, i'm not in charge
13:15 < barneygale> nastyCreeper: we are.
13:15 < nastyCreeper> i actually don't care about online mode or not
13:15 <+md_5> you *are* pbunny
13:16 < nastyCreeper> NO.
13:16 <+md_5> also you arent sending packet0 keepalives
13:16 < nastyCreeper> yes, to save traffic
13:16 < SinZ> nastyCreeper: have you read the freenode policies btw?
13:16 <+md_5> save traffic
13:16 <+md_5> wat.ong
13:16 < nastyCreeper> you can easily detect if client is online by checking if it sends a shitload of 0x0Ds
13:16 < barneygale> hahahahahahaha you're so obviously pbunny
13:17 < nastyCreeper> if it stops sending them - something's is wrong
13:17 <+Zaneo> md_5, in answer to you question, nobody important I've just been around for a while
13:17 < zutto> indeed he is 
13:17 <+Fador> I feel like C devs are getting a bad name because of this ;)
13:17 <+md_5> Ive been around for year(s) and dont recall you :|
13:17 < nastyCreeper> md_5: you can easily detect if client is online by checking if it sends a shitload of 0x0Ds
13:17 < nastyCreeper> ok?
13:17 <+Zaneo> Before it moved to freenode?
13:17 <+md_5> your captcha is unreadable
13:17 < nastyCreeper> you don't need keepalives
13:18 < nastyCreeper> md_5 consult your oculist maybe, i read it fine
13:18 <+md_5> someone tell me what this is: http://screencloud.net/v/1Oms
13:18 <+md_5> I for the life of me cannot
13:18 < nastyCreeper> also there is /captcha (which refreshes the code)
13:18 <+Matvei> md_5, Zaneo and I have been around before #mcdevs was around, from EsperNet days
13:18 <+md_5> yes, refreshed it tons of times
13:19 <+Matvei> I assure you that his op status is well deserved :P
13:19 <+md_5> anyway
13:19 <+md_5> who can read that captcha for me
13:19 <+md_5> cause I cant
13:19 < edk> My best guess is y
13:19 < nastyCreeper> md_5 screen plz
13:19 <+md_5>  <md_5> someone tell me what this is: http://screencloud.net/v/1Oms
13:19 <+md_5> hm
13:19 < nastyCreeper> a 9
13:19 <+md_5> this looks like 585
13:19  * md_5 tests
13:20 <+md_5> success
13:20 < nastyCreeper> how can't you see the 9 made of furnaces?
13:20 < SinZ> that is a 6 made of furnaces
13:20 < SinZ> S*
13:20 <+md_5> i c now
13:20 <+md_5> that is confusing as hell
13:20 < edk> Not for a computer
13:20 < edk> that's pretty much an anticaptcha
13:20 < nastyCreeper> SinZ: is your monitor by any chance upside down?
13:21 < SinZ> nastyCreeper: is yours?
13:21 < nastyCreeper> md_5: if you can't read captchas, there is a chance you are robot
13:21 < nastyCreeper> SinZ: no, i read it as 9 at once
13:21 < SinZ> then you need your eyes checked
13:21 <+md_5> why would you need captcha
13:21 <+md_5> in an online mode server
13:21 < zutto> is this nessusMS thing a joke?
13:21 <+md_5> oh wait you dont plan online mode
13:21 <+md_5> zutto very much so
13:21 <+md_5> either that or stupidity
13:22 < nastyCreeper> md_5 with offline mode you must do somethign to prevent registrations flooding
13:22 < zutto> "And 256GB of RAM (obtainable easy enough for server by now) can hold about 12000x12000x256 world (depending on entities count, it may be slightly more or less, however entities are more CPU-intensive than memory-intensive), which is enough for most people. "
13:22 < zutto> seriously
13:22 < edk> nastyCreeper: fill the background with white, then edge detect
13:22 < zutto> this has to be a big joke
13:22 <+md_5> uh
13:22 < SinZ> nastyCreeper: do you plan on running the offical thepiratebay.* minecraft server?
13:22 <+md_5> so
13:22 <+md_5> whatever you login as 
13:22 <+md_5> changes your IGN to that
13:22 < nastyCreeper> edk: try that then. while i can agree it's possible to defeat the current captcha, nobody will bother to waste time on it
13:22 <+md_5> bet you your passwords arent hashed
13:23 < nastyCreeper> SinZ: lol, not that i'm aware of
13:23 < SinZ> nobody will bother to waste time solving it as a human
13:23 <+md_5> LOL
13:23 <+md_5> crashed server
13:23 <+md_5> end of stream > connection refused: http://screencloud.net/v/rVvR
13:23 < nastyCreeper> well its beta server.
13:23  * edk chortles
13:23 < nastyCreeper> what did you do btw/
13:23 <+md_5> that was easier than I thought
13:23 < SinZ> Must be the lack of oop
13:23 <+md_5> nastyCreeper power of my mind
13:23 < nastyCreeper> of course it's easy to crash a beta (or should it be called alpha) software
13:23 < edk> not so
13:24 <+md_5> server cant hold me
13:24 < nastyCreeper> try not to explode from proudness
13:24 < edk> /* very alpha exiting program */ int main(void) { return 0; }
13:24 < edk> nastyCreeper: crash that
13:24 < nastyCreeper> edk: it's somewhat simpler than mc server, don't you think?
13:25 < edk> no
13:25 < edk> took many man hours of planning
13:25 < edk> like 0.001 or so
13:25 < nastyCreeper> ok now you're just boring
13:25 < barneygale> I don't understand why you come back here when you know everyone is sick of you
13:26 < nastyCreeper> i can ask you the same
13:26 < edk> Nobody's sick of barney
13:26 < SinZ> ^
13:26 < barneygale> Thank you :]
13:26 < nastyCreeper> ok go on then
13:26 < zutto> i'm here just for the entertainment pbunny provides
13:26 < edk> I still want an answer to my string searching question
13:26 < edk> (a correct one)
13:27 < barneygale> prediction: nastyCreeper, like (!) bunny, doesn't know big O
13:27 < edk> hell, you can't even implement the naive string search correctly
13:27 < nastyCreeper> edk: if i will ever need to write such algorithm by hand, i will google it
13:27 < nastyCreeper> there is no point in keeping everything in memory "just-in-case"
13:27 < nastyCreeper> brain is not infinite
13:27 < nastyCreeper> actually some studies show that abundance of knowledge make it slower
13:27 < edk> nastyCreeper: but you'll find answers involving theory!
13:28 < SinZ> it stores more info than what your computer does
13:28 < edk> nastyCreeper: and we can't have that
13:28 < barneygale> nastyCreeper: people who understand algorithms would be able to deduce an algorithm
13:28 < barneygale> without googling
13:28 < zutto> brains can store upto 2.5 petabytes of information
13:28 < barneygale> It's not about keeping factoids in your head, stupid.
13:28 < SinZ> and you cant trust the answer on the internet, the FBI put it there to get you into a false sense of security
13:28 < zutto> you're still good to go for another 2.4999999999999999 petabytes nastyCreeper 
13:28 < nastyCreeper> barneygale: i will understand it, i just don't have time and desire to reinvent it atm
13:28 < barneygale> reinvent what? a modest understanding of computers?
13:28 < edk> I'm not asking for the perfect solution nastyCreeper 
13:29 < nastyCreeper> zutto: synapses count can vary quite significantly between a database-kind of person and person that prefers google to store info for him
13:29 < edk> indeed since you don't know enough about my question you can't tell what the perfect solution is
13:29 < barneygale> Yeah we just want to see your superior "thinking"
13:29 < nastyCreeper> the more synapses - the longer chains of impulses there can be
13:29 <+Zaneo> Nobody here has anything more productive they wish to be doing?
13:29 < edk> I'm asking for any solution. anyone who's not anidiot could work that out.
13:29 < edk> +spaces
13:29 < nastyCreeper> and the more is energy consumption by brain
13:29 < barneygale> Zaneo: I'm housesitting for my gf
13:29 < nastyCreeper> so it will become tired faster
13:29 <+Zaneo> Like programming, sleeping... watching paint dry...
13:30 < SinZ> I would watch the grass grow, but it is a tad bit dark
13:30 < edk> Zaneo: I'm watching Darwin spin round and round very quickly in his grave
13:30 <+Zaneo> The sun just rose here sinz
13:31 < SinZ> Zaneo: give it back!
13:31 <+Zaneo> If I could send it away I would
13:32 < unnicked893> pbunny is god
13:34 < edk> god of what?
13:34 < edk> mediocrity?
13:34 < barneygale> nastyCreeper: it's a good thing you PM'd pbunny after he was banned. You two share a profound cosmic bond
13:34 < barneygale> it's beautiful :3
13:34 < nastyCreeper> :3
13:35 <+md_5> um
13:35 <+md_5> unnicked893 is part of the nessus dev team guys
13:36 < barneygale> so is nastyCreeper
13:36 <+md_5> yes we know
13:36 <+md_5> was just making clear I just confirmed unnicked893 is too
13:36 < SinZ> a manhunt on nessus MC would be fun
13:37 < edk> find SinZ before the server crashes
13:38 < unnicked893> md_5 i like you
13:39 <+md_5> unnicked893 why do you like me?
13:39 < edk> everyone does
13:39 < edk> md_5 is the original sex god
13:39 <+md_5> circlejerk engage
13:40  * edk turns the stupidity up a gear
13:41 < unnicked893> md_5 no idea
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13:51 < barneygale> Well, I'm going to throw this up, and hopefully TkTech or sadimusi will see it when they come online later
13:51 < barneygale> https://gist.github.com/barneygale/5705361
13:53 < Thinkofdeath> "prohibited under dev.bukkit.org rules" isn't it against the #mcdevs rules as well?
13:54 < nastyCreeper> goddamn you are wicked barneygale
13:54 < nastyCreeper> where did you see piracy
13:54 < barneygale> yeah tis Thinkofdeath
13:54 < nastyCreeper> barneygale: minecraft protocol supports piracy then, because it supports offline mode
13:54 < jast> #mcdevs rules don't forbid it
13:54 < barneygale> I thought they did?
13:54 < jast> this petition is crap
13:55 < barneygale> your petition is crap
13:55 < nastyCreeper> barneygale: should we forbid minecraft protocol here? because you can make offline mode servers with it
13:55 < jast> the rules say the channel isn't going to help anyone with circumventing authentication
13:55 < barneygale> nastyCreeper: what is wrong with you?
13:55 < jast> that's clearly different
13:55 < nastyCreeper> barneygale: you act like a moron <- that
13:55 < nastyCreeper> please stop it and don't try to remove people that can actually help the channel
13:55 < barneygale> "We will not help you circumvent player authentication or otherwise help you pirate the game."
13:56 < nastyCreeper> barneygale: who asked for help on that?
13:56 < nastyCreeper> and piracy isn't involved in any way
13:56 < nastyCreeper> we can even make an explicit rule for our server about that
13:56 < nastyCreeper> will it make you calm?
13:56 < jast> the question of what auth mechanism that server uses is entirely orthogonal to the piracy question
13:57 < nastyCreeper> ++
13:57 < barneygale> jast: how so?
13:57 < jast> piracy is when you download and use the client without a license
13:57 < barneygale> Like the petition says, such a thing is not allowed for bukkit plugins on dev.b.o precisely because of the piracy implications
13:57 < jast> who cares about dev.bukkit.org
13:57 < jast> this is #mcdevs
13:57 < jast> not #bukkitdevs
13:58 < nastyCreeper> "something which is prohibited under dev.bukkit.org rules" - LOL
13:58 < nastyCreeper> what the hell has bukkit to do with this channel (or the world of minecraft development)?
13:58 < barneygale> I'm just saying that they found this reasoning sound enough, what makes you think it's orthogonal?
13:59 < jast> do I need to use smaller words?
13:59 < nastyCreeper> barneygale: and cu clux clan found it reasonable to kill black people
13:59 < jast> piracy is when you illegally use the client
13:59 < nastyCreeper> what makes you think they were orthogonal?
13:59 < barneygale> jast: you can if you like, but I'll pass on the condescension thanks!
13:59 < jast> a server in offline mode makes it neither easier nor harder to pirate the game, therefore it's orthogonal
13:59 < zutto> http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/38397700.jpg <-- i'll just leave this here
13:59 < nastyCreeper> jast: right, and iirc pbunny have plans for custom client after server
13:59 < nastyCreeper> which will remove the piracy question alltogether
14:00 < barneygale> jast: bukkit devs disagree with you. What do you say to their rationale?
14:00 < jast> nor does it encourage people to pirate any more than the fact that you can play singleplayer without a license
14:00 < jast> both are illegal
14:00 < nastyCreeper> barneygale: bukkit is shit :)
14:00 < barneygale> thanks pbunny.
14:00 < jast> barneygale: you have not bothered to provide a reference to their rationale yet
14:00 < barneygale> jast: I hardly see why I'm responsible for finding it for you. You're the one picking the argument.
14:01 < jast> I see no need to answer your question if you want me to do all the work required to do so
14:01 < barneygale> Then you concede the point.
14:01 < jast> no
14:01 < barneygale> Uhg
14:01 < jast> you're labouring under a misunderstanding about the concept of burden of truth
14:02 < jast> (or so it seems to me)
14:02 < barneygale> you're speaking in platitudes as if you're the bringer of wisdom to some uncivilised people.
14:02 < jast> well, you're the one making demands based on some as yet unexplained reasoning
14:02 < barneygale> See? I can act like I'm in my first reddit argument too.
14:03 < nastyCreeper> barneygale: can it be that you are just jealous about pbunny and his server progress?
14:03 < barneygale> jast: the reasoning is explained. If you don't want to look it up, then don't sign the petition. But I'm not going to entertain some argument from you if you don't even know what you're arguing against
14:03 < barneygale> It's silly.
14:03 < nastyCreeper> you spend extremely much effort to fight him and everybody related
14:04 < barneygale> nastyCreeper: oh I'm beyond jealous
14:04 < nastyCreeper> barneygale: also i like how signing petition requires a github account
14:04 < barneygale> most active devs here have them.
14:06 < jast> well I've stated my opinion in the "petition".
14:06 < barneygale> "thank you"
14:06 < jast> not that it makes a difference. after all, this channel is not a democracy.
14:07 < barneygale> hence why I'm handing it to the first op to come online.
14:07 < jast> best of luck with that
14:07 < barneygale> thank you
14:07 < dav1d> oh noe
14:07 < dav1d> s
14:07 < dav1d> he is back, we had such a good time
14:11 < edk> what's the ssh escape to force disconnect again
14:11 < edk> i forgot it
14:11 < dav1d> ^D ?
14:11 < jast> <enter> ~ .
14:12 < edk> thanks
14:12 < jast> in the openssh client, anyway
14:12 < edk> yeah, that's what i'm using
14:14 < edk> barneygale: I agree with banning them, but for ban evasion, rather than piracy :p
14:16 < barneygale> jast: replied with a couple of quotes from TkTech and sadimusi.
14:17 < jast> that's nice. it doesn't change my point of view, but I'm also not in charge of the channel. net effect: zero.
14:18 < nastyCreeper> edk: it is wrong to ban based on unproven accusation, don't you think?
14:19 < edk> no
14:19 < jast> in the channels I'm involved in, people tend to get banned if they are *annoying*, so the question wouldn't come up there in the first place.
14:20 < nastyCreeper> edk: then you should have stayed in middle ages, thinking like that was welcomed there
14:20 < barneygale> TIL edk is hundreds of years old
14:20 < barneygale> or can time travel?
14:21 < edk> both
14:21 < nastyCreeper> barneygale: i meant - he should have born in middle ages, not in age of logic, science and critical thinking
14:21 < edk> I was born in the year 2047
14:21 < jast> as it is, my personal approach is to ignore any clowning
14:21 < nastyCreeper> imagine if people got arrested just because they resembled some criminal
14:21 < jast> you mean, the way it already is?
14:21 < nastyCreeper> jast: they can be taken for identifying
14:21 < jast> yes, the possibility exists
14:22 < nastyCreeper> but then it is checked whether they are actually the person they resemble
14:22 < barneygale> nastyCreeper: again, you're confusing #mcdevs with a government
14:22 < nastyCreeper> barneygale: it's how civilized world work
14:22 < barneygale> or a state.
14:22 < edk> nastyCreeper: maybe you're not aware, but if two atoms have the same properties, they're literally indistinguishable: the question of whether an atom is the same as an atom that "could" be the same atom doesn't mean anything
14:22 < edk> I posit that your case is equivalent
14:22 < jast> in this country, there was a case recently where a guy got committed because he claimed that a certain bank had been doing illegal transactions
14:23 < nastyCreeper> edk: they will have different physical location, that will make them distinct
14:23 < jast> stayed locked away for 6~7 years
14:23 < jast> brave new world
14:23 < edk> nastyCreeper: what if they're attached to the same molecule?
14:23 < nastyCreeper> jast: sure, but civilized world tries to reduce number of such cases
14:23 < barneygale> ron 420 blaze it paul
14:23 < edk> the only way we have to work out the path atoms take in a reaction is by using radioisotopes and watching very fast
14:23 < nastyCreeper> however barneygale tries to turn channel into some kind of inquisition
14:23 < jast> any society is made up of different factions with different motivations
14:24 < nastyCreeper> edk: if atoms have 0 differences - it is the same atom.
14:24 < barneygale> this isn't a society
14:24 < barneygale> jesus christ
14:24 < jast> I don't think black-and-white thinking is helpful in understand the world as it actually is
14:24 < edk> nastyCreeper: that's not so
14:24 < nastyCreeper> barneygale: um, #mcdevs is a society
14:24 < ughman> this argument
14:24 < jast> I'm not talking about #mcdevs
14:24 < barneygale> many good website and communities are run by benevolent dictators, something this line of thinking wouldn't support.
14:25 < barneygale> I have no idea why you're applying this libertarian slippery-slope bullshit thinking to an irc channel
14:25 < edk> This one is run by a dictator, as it happens
14:25 < jast> because it's convenient
14:25 < barneygale> exactly
14:26 < nastyCreeper> i'm not talking about democracy. requirement of proofs before acting is just a way of civilized justice
14:26 < nastyCreeper> and slandering should be punishable, btw
14:26 < barneygale> iirc ##bash for a time was run on the basis that everyone got op as soon as they entered
14:26 < barneygale> maybe talk to the ops there about how that went ;D
14:28 < jast> there is no absolute proof, so the interpretation of evidence is up to the judiciary. which none of us are.
14:28 < jast> just saying.
14:28 < edk> yeah, i think this discussion ran its course a while ago
14:28 < barneygale> agreed
14:29 < barneygale> thanks for giving pbunny exactly what he wanted jast.
14:29 < jast> we can argue about who's right until we're blue in the face, but the argument serves no purpose at all
14:29 < edk> can we talk to pbunny about string searching instead?
14:29 < jast> why? you're not expecting to learn anything, are you? :}
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14:30 < edk> jast: i'm hoping to demonstrate a case where the CS approach is demonstrably much more efficient
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14:30 < jast> to what end?
14:31 <+sadimusi> barneygale: You should start a petition for a "No annoying people" rule instead
14:31 < jast> do you seriously believe he'd admit that he was wrong? given airtight proof?
14:31 < jast> I don't
14:31 < edk> I hope more than believe
14:31 < barneygale> pbunny should work for Amy's Baking Company amirite
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14:32 < jast> I suppose the rules actually already cover that
14:32 < barneygale> Err
14:32 < barneygale> Also
14:33 < barneygale> nastyCreeper: you signed up for github? I'm impressed
14:33 < jast> for the most part, annoying people are shockingly impolite, which is technically against the rules. in practice, the rules don't seem to be serving as a law book, though (which is a good thing, of course)
14:33 < nastyCreeper> barneygale: i didn't.
14:35 < jast> barneygale: no, that's yet another completely distinct person who is not at all identical to pbunny
14:35 < edk> I wonder if the correct approach in this instance isn't just to ignore pbunny/nastyCreeper/*
14:35 < edk> blah blah trolls blah blah don't feed blah.
14:35 < jast> well, depends on the aim
14:35 < barneygale> that kinda only works if a lot of people do it
14:35 < clonejo1> some people seem to have fun feeding trolls
14:36 < jast> if you want to get rid of someone that way, it doesn't tend to work at all in open (anyone may join) communities
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14:37 < nastyCreeper> what were annoying about pbunny btw? any logs?
14:37 < jast> instead, it reduces the impact to those in the community who don't systematically ignore the thing in question, which tends to be the majority
14:38 < jast> newcomers in particular
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17:07 < workshifter> anyone know where to start in adding a new worldgen algo for a bukkit server?
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17:15 <+SirCmpwn> workshifter: in #bukkit on irc.esper.net
17:15 <+SirCmpwn> or #bukkitdev
17:15 < dav1d> oh hi
17:15 < dav1d> wb
17:15 <+SirCmpwn> ty
17:16 < workshifter> http://forums.bukkit.org/threads/basic-creating-custom-world-generators.24569/
17:16 < workshifter> found this, still correct?
17:17 < dav1d> workshifter: better join #bukkit on irc.esper.net, not a whole lot of bukkit devs are here
17:17 <+SirCmpwn> workshifter: we can't really help you with bukkit plugins here
17:17 <+SirCmpwn> I can tell you how to make a custom Craft.Net world generator if you want
17:17 < dx> good morning
17:18 < dav1d> hi
17:18 < workshifter> got it, thanks
17:18  * dx reads up
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