18:38 < dav1d> jast: none
18:38 < dav1d> jast: oh sorry
18:38 < dav1d> static
18:38 < jast> so that's what, a class-level deconstructor?
18:38 < dav1d> jast: static ~this() is called when everything shuts down
18:38 < jast> oh joy
18:39 < jast> for a freelist kind of thing, I see
18:39 < dav1d> static this() <- called once (per thread); shared static this() <- called once
18:39 < dx> AnotherOne: hi
18:39 < dav1d> same goes for destructors
18:39 < AnotherOne> glad to see you:)
18:40 < dav1d> why I made that private, I dont know^^
18:40 < dav1d> maybe I liked the color of "private" in kdevelop
18:40 < jast> so, the way I understand it, Chunk is initialized by copying the pointer to empty_blocks into blocks
18:40 < AnotherOne> omg
18:41 < AnotherOne> kde is bad
18:41 < jast> so, if you deinit two empty chunks, isn't empty_blocks freed twice?
18:41 < Calinou> old news
18:41 < dav1d> jast: no
18:41 < dav1d> jast: because it won't free: if(!empty) free(...)
18:41 < AnotherOne> hey dav1d, when did your plasma crash last time?
18:41 < Calinou> <AnotherOne> f**k threads => be nice to AMD >:(
18:41 < Calinou> else they will bankrupt :(
18:41 < Calinou> and we'll buy celerons for 500€ :(
18:42 < dav1d> jast: but the segfault happens not when the runtime shutsdown but when the chunk is freed because it goes out of range
18:42 < dav1d> AnotherOne: plasma?
18:42 < Yoshi2> celerons *shudder*
18:42 < Calinou> dav1d: <Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 223fc8a - speed up tessellation => tesselation? for what?
18:42 < AnotherOne> that kde thing
18:42 < Calinou> Yoshi2: celerons are actually fast
18:42 < dav1d> AnotherOne: ?
18:42 < Calinou> they have a shit name but they're decent for their price
18:42 < dav1d> I am not using kde
18:42 < Calinou> much better than pentiums
18:42 < AnotherOne> nevermind
18:43 < dav1d> Calinou: tessellation = process of making triangles out of blocks (in brala)
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18:43 < Calinou> ah
18:43 < dav1d> well it doesn't matter much since it is threaded anyways but, hey, why shouldn't I optimize it, especially if it's so easy to do
18:44 < jast> dav1d: is that a thread-related problem, btw?
18:44 < dav1d> jast: no
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18:45 < AnotherOne> it's all D
18:45 < dav1d> I have no idea why it segfaults the code is fine
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18:45 < dav1d> *should be
18:45 < jast> if this was used in threaded code, conceivably a race condition could crash it... but if it's not threaded, there's no point thinking about that
18:46 < jast> the next easy candidate is that fill_chunk is called with something that is accidentally referenced in several Chunk instances
18:48 -!- zh32 is now known as zh32|away
18:49 < AnotherOne> do you like python?
18:49 < jast> not particularly
18:50 < dav1d> jast: the GC stops the world, no thread is running! then calls one by one the destructors
18:50 < dav1d> jast: no race condition possible
18:51 < dav1d> jast: will a double free segfault without a libc error?
18:52 < AnotherOne> what is GC?
18:52 <+ammar2> garbage collection
18:52 < AnotherOne> og
18:52 < AnotherOne> oh
18:52 < jast> dav1d: if you turn off double free detection, you get undefined behaviour
18:52 < AnotherOne> disable it
18:52 < jast> so, it could either cause a segfault, or fuck things up quietly
18:53 < dav1d> jast: gah, still shouldn't happen  ... except empty is fucked up, but this can't be the case
18:55 < jast> AnotherOne: if you disable GC in a language that doesn't allow manually freeing objects (I believe D is one of those), memory is never freed and you eventually run out of it
18:55 < AnotherOne> omg
18:55 < AnotherOne> if D cant manually free memory, it is bad
18:55 < AnotherOne> like c# and java
18:56 < dav1d> AnotherOne: lo
18:56 < dav1d> l
18:56 < dav1d> jast: you can manually free
18:56 < dav1d> jast: GC.free for GC allocated memory (if disabled it simply will never collect) and stdlib malloc/free still exists with and without a gc
19:09 < jast> right
19:10 < jast> I looked into D but my interest waned when I discovered that it's one the many languages that doesn't solve the problem of easily handling c10k
19:11 < AnotherOne> what?
19:14 < dav1d> jast: ever looked at vibe?
19:14 < dav1d> http://vibed.org/
19:15 < jast> looks like that's about writing code that looks event-based
19:15 <+Prf_Jakob> jast: c10k?
19:15 <+ammar2> lots of clients https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C10k_problem
19:15 < jast> oh, it doesn't
19:15 < jast> though it's not clear to me whether this actually does scheduling
19:16 < jast> if it doesn't, you have the same problems as in node.js, really, just better hidden :)
19:16 < dav1d> jast: it isn't
19:16 < dav1d> https://github.com/Dav1dde/rcd/blob/master/rcd/ic/inputcontrol.d#L116
19:16 <+Prf_Jakob> ammar2: oh
19:16 <+Prf_Jakob> ammar2: thanks
19:16 < jast> ah, it's cooperative threading
19:16 < jast> that sucks
19:16 < dav1d> the while will never exit
19:16 < dav1d> jast: 0 threads
19:16 < dav1d> well 1, the main thread
19:17 < jast> cooperative multi*tasking*, then, if you prefer
19:17 < dav1d> :P
19:17 < jast> cooperative multitasking is the reason windows 3.11 is still relevant today
19:19 < jast> the thing is, this kind of model is lots more bearble with preemptive multitasking
19:19 < jast> and you need support for that baked into the language
19:22 < jast> go does have this baked in, but I don't like it for other reasons (which I find hard to articulate, so let's not go into this)
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20:14 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±7] http://git.io/Nqgdmg
20:14 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 930572c - Fixed the chunk chaining bug. Lighting still needs work
20:14 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 8bda1a2 - Added block placement sounds
20:14 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-1/±1] http://git.io/YD9Q6w
20:14 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde e1dcc6b - removed leftover ui files
20:17 < Not-002> [Miners] Wallbraker pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/ErkDRQ
20:17 < Not-002> [Miners] Wallbraker a531bc2 - sys: Fix ZipFile not working
20:17 < Not-002> [Miners] Wallbraker 6be06d5 - test: Use ZipFile package in game
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20:38 < AnotherOne> dav1d, may i ask you a provocating question?
20:39 < dav1d> AnotherOne: lol go ahead
20:39 < AnotherOne> what do germans think about nazism?
20:40 < ShaRose> that's pretty obvious
20:42 < dav1d> AnotherOne: you mean 1933+ or now?
20:42 < dx> lol
20:42 < AnotherOne> now
20:42 < AnotherOne> and then
20:43 < dav1d> I find them somehow funny, they are so retarded
20:43 < dav1d> but on the other hand it's so sad
20:43 < AnotherOne> why?
20:43 < dav1d> problem is not what they say, the problem is they believe in it
20:43 < dav1d> I can only explain this with stupidity
20:44 < AnotherOne> heh, fukken uber
20:44 < dav1d> back then, well, I guess we are thinking about it as nearly every other country (my generation and probably my parents generation)
20:45 < dav1d> I can't really identify the germany as it was ~1930 with the current situation
20:45 < AnotherOne> but what now, man?
20:45 < dav1d> *current germany
20:45 < AnotherOne> Germany is full of arabs
20:45 < AnotherOne> savages
20:45 < dav1d> not really, more turks :P
20:46 < AnotherOne> i heard somewhere in europe man who protected his own wife from rape by black men was jailed for racism
20:47 < AnotherOne> do you like turks?
20:48 < dav1d> I never heared that
20:48 < dav1d> "do you like turks", what a question...
20:49 < AnotherOne> i mean are they ok?
20:49 < AnotherOne> or like american ghetto dwellers?
20:49 <+pdelvo> I dont know american ghetto dwellers
20:50 < AnotherOne> google "nigger"
20:51 <+pdelvo> you cannot say that every turk is the same. there are assholes in every culture
20:51 < AnotherOne> what about majoruty?
20:51 < AnotherOne> majority*
20:52 <+pdelvo> the oney I have contact with are okay
20:53 <+Prf_Jakob> AnotherOne: please drop this conversation subject, its bound to turn sour at some point.
20:53 <+Prf_Jakob> nor is it on topic at all.
20:53 < AnotherOne> heh
20:53 < AnotherOne> ok
20:55 < AnotherOne> i was thinking of moving to Germany. how good must i be at programmming to have a nice job there?
20:55 -!- zh32 is now known as zh32|away
20:55 < AnotherOne> say, sonewhere near Berlin, but not in there
20:56 < AnotherOne> some*
20:56 <+Prf_Jakob> propbably as good as any other place.
20:57 < AnotherOne> i dont think so
20:57 < redu> yea, with all the working from home etc
20:59 -!- Yoshi2| [~chatzilla@xdsl-78-35-207-110.netcologne.de] has joined #mcdevs
21:00 < Grum> wait AnotherOne, so you are a neonazi turk? ;D
21:00 -!- Yoshi2 [~chatzilla@xdsl-87-78-128-46.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
21:00 -!- Yoshi2| is now known as Yoshi2
21:00 < Yoshi2> be skilled, be good with teamwork, have a good portfolio, etc.
21:00 < AnotherOne> apolitical ukrainian:)
21:00 < Yoshi2> the usual stuff, as far as I can tell
21:01 < Grum> know how to google, know english or german (if you do not know german, find an international company)
21:01 -!- zh32|away is now known as zh32
21:01 < AnotherOne> i want to learn german
21:01 < AnotherOne> right after english
21:02 < Grum> hmmm is ukraine eu? i really cant remember O.o
21:02 < AnotherOne> lol, yes
21:02 < Grum> well then moving at least is super trivial
21:03 < Grum> i guess the barest minimum is being 'fluent' enough in english
21:04 < AnotherOne> used google translate for word "fluent"... damnit
21:04 < Grum> hehe
21:05 < Grum> just be able to read/write/speak/listen to  the basics :)
21:05 < Yoshi2> afaik the Ukraine is not yet part of the EU, so I'm not sure if moving into a different country in Europa will be that simple
21:05 < Grum> hmm actually it isnt indeed
21:05 < Grum> that means moving is going to be as annoying as it is from the US
21:08 < AnotherOne> well it is early to think about details
21:08 < Grum> not sure it is, moving from the US takes 8months orso :p
21:09 < AnotherOne> yes it is, im a student now
21:10 < AnotherOne> the variant is exchange program or something...
21:14 < AnotherOne> but let's get back to the topic of this channel
21:14 < AnotherOne> i'm thinking of message processing
21:15 < AnotherOne> now i have a function that parses next message and does something. actually it is a big switch 
21:15 -!- Cay [~OlofLarss@s83-177-171-150.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:16 < AnotherOne> if i want to use my protocol library in other project, i have to copy this function and edit it
21:16 < AnotherOne> how can i avoid this?
21:16 <+pdelvo> what about not using a switch?
21:17 < AnotherOne> what then?
21:17 <+pdelvo> use a array. the key is the packet id, and the value is some kind of pointer where the packet reading is implemented. this is one day to do that
21:17 < AnotherOne> nice
21:18 < AnotherOne> i will try, thank you
21:18 <+pdelvo> np
21:19 -!- zh32 is now known as zh32|away
21:20 < AnotherOne> or not nice...
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21:24 -!- Seegeee [4a5839cb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.88.57.203] has joined #mcdevs
21:24 < Seegeee> Hello everyone
21:24 < Seegeee> I need some help with SMProxy...
21:24 < AnotherOne> looks like this will not work with my architecture
21:24 < AnotherOne> hi
21:24 < Seegeee> Hey
21:24 < Seegeee> Whats up
21:24 <+pdelvo> hi
21:25 < Seegeee> Hey
21:25 < Seegeee> So im trying to setup SMProxy to see the format of some packets that the client sends to the server.
21:25 < Seegeee> But I dont know what port to listen on locally...
21:25 -!- GameMakerGm [~gamemaker@wikia/Gamemakergm] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
21:28 < Seegeee> This is how im doing it atm: http://g0ogle.org/img.php?img=fhji02r0m529ztvjmvtzij9d0.png g0d.ca is the server im connecting to (my server)
21:28 < Seegeee> But SMProxy doesnt generate any logs, im on the server in the MC client also
21:30 < dx> sadimusi: renaming your fork of mc3p to mc4p when
21:30 -!- Calinou [~Calinou@unaffiliated/calinou] has joined #mcdevs
21:31 < AnotherOne> g0ogle.org
21:31 < Seegeee> My domain :p
21:31 < AnotherOne> looks like a fishing site
21:31 < Seegeee> Its a screenshot software that I made xD
21:31 < AnotherOne> fukken dangerous
21:32 < Calinou> -1 for using "fukke"n
21:32 < Calinou> s/"n/n"
21:32 < Seegeee> Yea... Kaspery thinks its a phisher I think... Because of the domain
21:33 < Seegeee> But does anyone know whats wrong? I assume I am lsitening on the wrong port... What port does MC send packets back to?
21:33 < dx> ITC: domain squatters
21:33 < dx> the other day some guy joined with a "minecraft.org" hostmask
21:34 < Seegeee> :o
21:35 < dx> that website did no attempt to make it clear that it's not .net, and had a download page that linked to a minecraft classic 0.30 client with a bunch of hacks
21:35 < mbaxter> nifty!
21:35 < Seegeee> xD http://g0ogle.org/ isnt like google at all so I think im good.
21:35 < dx> still counts as squatting but yeah it's not bad
21:36 < Seegeee> I guess xD
21:36 < dx> congrats on owning that domain
21:36 < Seegeee> It makes me feel special ;)
21:36 < Seegeee> xD
21:37 < dx> Seegeee: so uh
21:37 < dx> Seegeee: did you point your client to connect to localhost:25564?
21:38 < Seegeee> Well its not a localhost server
21:38 < dx> derp
21:38 < Seegeee> Its hosted on my dedi
21:38 < dx> that's where you're failing then
21:38 < Seegeee> Wait... Is this a server side proxy... Kind of...
21:38 < dx> you're running smproxy in your own windows computer
21:38 < dx> it listens at localhost
21:38 < dx> connect there.
21:38 < Seegeee> OH.
21:39 < dx> :3
21:39 < Seegeee> Wwait
21:39 < Seegeee> does it act as a serever
21:39 < Seegeee> on its own?
21:39 < barneygale> Yes
21:39 < dx> dude
21:39 < Seegeee> OH xD
21:39 < dx> do you know what a 'proxy' is?
21:39 < Seegeee> I thought it sniffed the outgoing packets
21:39 < barneygale> all proxies are servers
21:39 < Seegeee> BUt most of them act as a gateway
21:39 < Seegeee> to connect to another sort of server..
21:39 < barneygale> aye, that's what makes them proxies and not simply servers
21:39 < dx> yes, they still look like a server to the client
21:40 < Seegeee> Hm
21:40 < Seegeee> Ok
21:40 < Seegeee> Let me try that
21:40 < Seegeee> Im guessing its not 1.5.2?
21:40 < dx> no idea
21:40 -!- zh32|away is now known as zh32
21:40 < dx> the guy who develops smproxy had an accident and is no longer with us
21:40 < Seegeee> I have seen him over in Craft.net IRC...
21:40 < Calinou> read: drugs
21:40 < Seegeee> SirCmpwn... right?
21:41 < dx> yes
21:41 < dx> he's no longer with us. literally.
21:41 < Calinou> read: alcohol, wayland
21:41 < dx> lol
21:41 < Calinou> read: MLP
21:41 < dx> lol seriously
21:41 < Seegeee> Shit...
21:41 < Seegeee> Yea SMProxy crashes when I try to connect
21:41 < Seegeee> I think im using a really old version xD
21:42 < Seegeee> I found a random precompiled version somewhere...
21:42 < dx> typical windows user
21:42 < Seegeee> http://g0ogle.org/img.php?img=dr1hybp3z9phr0rmagrfxufk.png  thats what the error was
21:42 < dx> grab binaries from any random place without caring who built them
21:43 < dx> lol
21:43 < dx> derp
21:43 < dx> you're still doing it wrong
21:43 < Seegeee> Wait
21:43 < Seegeee> I need to run a MC server also right...
21:43 < Seegeee> The way you said it, I thought you meant SMProxy was the MC server...
21:44 < Seegeee> Got kind of confused
21:44 < AnotherOne> Calinou: what is wrong with "fukken"?
21:45 < Calinou> nothing :-)
21:45 < Calinou> <dx> derp
21:45 < Calinou> <dx> you're still doing it wrong
21:45 < Calinou> => gentoo user spotted
21:45 < dx> Calinou: haha what
21:46 < Seegeee> Well thats a helpful error... http://g0ogle.org/img.php?img=r8auc4x9bid8mkhcf7szf9c2x.png 
21:46 < dx> fun
21:47 < Seegeee> f for fun I guess?
21:47 < dx> most likely, yes
21:48 < Seegeee> I should probably build this with the newest source...
21:48 < dx> anyway, proxies 101: you have a server in the address "SERVER" port "25565", you run a proxy locally, tell the proxy to connect to SERVER:25565, and to listen in a local post 25564. then you connect your minecraft client to localhost:25564
21:48 < Seegeee> Thats what I did :)
21:49 <+Prf_Jakob> dx: when you say with us, you mean here (I know he is banned from here)? Or do you mean in life?
21:49 < dx> Prf_Jakob: lol sorry, banned
21:49 < Seegeee> Yea I coudln't tell either
21:49 < Seegeee> xD
21:49 < dx> i do that on purpose to confuse new people
21:49 < Seegeee> Yay It works :p
21:50 <+Prf_Jakob> dx: don't do that please.
21:50 < dx> like, i kill mbaxter every time someone ask for him in the channel of his plugin
21:50 < dx> Prf_Jakob: noted, won't do that here anymore.
21:50 <+Prf_Jakob> thanks
21:50 < Seegeee> Oh my, this makes some big logs...
21:51 < dx> are we still talking about minecraft?
21:51 < Seegeee> Im talking about SMProxy
21:51 < dx> gotcha, was worried for a sec.
21:51 < Seegeee> xD
21:52  * mbaxter kills dx
21:52 < dx> mbaxter: :D
21:52 < mbaxter> ._.
21:53 < dx> mbaxter: you gotta admit that being dead helps you avoid annoying things that happen during life, such as "Builder874"
21:54 < mbaxter> lol
21:55 < redu> PARKOUR!!!!! Ep. 1 whoa
21:56 < AnotherOne> wat
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22:02 < Seegeee> Ill be back a little later. Thanks for your help :)
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22:02 < Not-002> [Miners] Wallbraker pushed 4 commits to master [+2/-2/±12] http://git.io/UsZsvA
22:02 < Not-002> [Miners] Wallbraker 9ec85ad - mc: Fix deletion in dtor
22:02 < Not-002> [Miners] Wallbraker 7eb8e6c - mc: Refactor SceneBase
22:02 < Not-002> [Miners] Wallbraker 1d9e47c - mc: Refactor ClassicPlayer
22:02 < Not-002> [Miners] Wallbraker 6d53b69 - mc: Refactor ClassicConnection related things
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22:23 < AnotherOne> O gothic moon thy shine encharmest me tonight
22:24 < AnotherOne> damnit. old english is nice
22:30 < dx> yeah nah
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22:44 < dav1d> AnotherOne: just out of curiosity, did you ask because you're arab?
22:44 < AnotherOne> nope:)
22:44 < AnotherOne> i told
22:44 < dav1d> ah k
22:45 < AnotherOne> i asked because i am curious:)
22:47 < AnotherOne> sorry about sequence of tenses
22:48 < AnotherOne> i must learn it
22:48 < dx> is it politically incorrect to think that nazis had cool uniforms?
22:48 < AnotherOne> lol
22:49 < dx> even the logo looks cool, but they had to put all of that negative meaning over everything ;_;
22:49 < AnotherOne> why do people build swastikas in minecraft?
22:50 < dx> "why is there immature people?"
22:50 < AnotherOne> dx: http://img11.nnm.ru/3/4/1/c/9/341c9c5d10c77b07fd2774b9b6517e58_full.jpg
22:50 < dx> AnotherOne: lolwtf is that
22:50 < AnotherOne> Hanzel und Gretyl
22:50 < AnotherOne> nice band
22:51 < dx> "Due to their heavy use of German lyrics, imagery and German-sounding pseudonyms, they are often mistaken for being a German band"
22:51 < dx> fun
22:52 < AnotherOne> i love their texts so much
22:52 < Yoshi2> their uniforms were designed by hugo boss, which is nowadays a very well known german brand for clothing
22:52 < Yoshi2> and I read that even british and american officers thought that the uniforms looked very good
22:52 < AnotherOne> hardcore english/german mix
22:53 < AnotherOne> it reminds me of language used in eastern Ukraine
22:53 < dx> Yoshi2: that was a huge [citation needed], so i googled and got "Hugo Boss Apologizes For Making Nazis Look Fabulous"
22:53 < AnotherOne> hahahahaha
22:53 <+Prf_Jakob> Re: Nazi uniforms http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn1VxaMEjRU
22:54 -!- zh32|away is now known as zh32
22:57 < dx> Prf_Jakob: i lol'd, thanks for linking this
22:57 -!- Yoshi2| [~chatzilla@xdsl-87-78-172-159.netcologne.de] has joined #mcdevs
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23:03 < dav1d> So are we the badies? :D
23:04 < AnotherOne> marching under the symbol of rat's anus
23:04 <+Prf_Jakob> hehe :)
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23:11 < AnotherOne> i see german town named Siegen in google maps
23:12 < AnotherOne> first thought is a gesture that you all know...
23:12 <+pdelvo> ha....ha......ha
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23:13 < AnotherOne> what does this word mean actually?
23:13 <+pdelvo> to win
23:14 <+pdelvo> but the name of the town is not related to that name
23:14 <+pdelvo> it was named after a celtic river Sieg (If I can trust wikipedia)
23:15 <+pdelvo> there are actually much funnier german names for towns
23:15 < AnotherOne> for example?
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23:15 <+pdelvo> Not far away from where I live is "Geilenkirchen"
23:16 < Yoshi2|> there are a lot of places with interesting names
23:16 <+pdelvo> there is a town Rom in germany
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23:19 <+clonejo> two villages: Afrika, Dagobertshausen
23:19 < AnotherOne> horny church
23:19 < AnotherOne> wtf
23:19 <+clonejo> yep
23:20 <+pdelvo> there are a lot more. very funny :D http://www.masterplan24.de/weblog/archives/stadtnamen.jpg
23:22 <+clonejo> hahahaha
23:24 < jast> geilenkirchen is 7 train stations from here
23:24 < dx> do i see a city with the same name as austria?
23:25 < jast> I think we have enough data points now to conclude that everyone is close to that city
23:25 < jast> dx: you do!
23:25 <+clonejo> pdelvo: Were do you live?
23:26 <+pdelvo> near Aachen
23:27 <+clonejo> lol
23:27 < jast> that much was fairly safe to assume
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23:27 <+clonejo> pdelvo: jast and me live in Aachen
23:27 <+pdelvo> what the heck oO
23:28 <+pdelvo> I live in Alsdorf :D
23:28 < Not-002> [Miners] Wallbraker pushed 4 commits to master [+8/-6/±11] http://git.io/3sTLcw
23:28 < Not-002> [Miners] Wallbraker 1dd439e - game: Refactor DebuggerScene
23:28 < Not-002> [Miners] Wallbraker 6a0b50e - game: Refactor all Scenes into a seperate folder
23:28 < Not-002> [Miners] Wallbraker 14ac1f6 - game: Refactor SceneManagerApp
23:28 < Not-002> [Miners] Wallbraker 059d2b1 - doc: Update doxygen alias map
23:28 < jast> my condolences :P
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23:29 <+clonejo> :DD
23:29 <+pdelvo> the world is so small
23:29 < Yoshi2> hm, it looks like aachen is a bit far away from here
23:29 < dx> why does aachen have completely different names in every language according to wikipedia
23:29 < dx> wtf is "Aquisgrán"
23:29 < jast> historical/geographical reasons, mostly
23:30 < jast> it's right next to the borders of two more countries
23:30 < jast> one of them has three widely spoken languages
23:30 <+clonejo> (Belgium and the Netherlands)
23:30 <+pdelvo> There are 97 persons (maybe some bots too) from  all over the world iin this channel and two of them live just a few km away from me
23:31 < dx> you guys should meet and talk about how bad the minecraft protocol is
23:32 < jast> without spoilering too much... three of them
23:32 <+md_5> Meet up!
23:32 <+md_5> Pics lessee
23:32 <+md_5> Please
23:32 < jast> /whois me for picture
23:32 < dx> i mean you could do that here but i bet it's going to be much more fun if you do it IRL and say angry things about the protocol in an angry german accent
23:32 < Yoshi2> sadly, I'm living at least an hour with the train away from aachen, can't meat you guys very easily
23:33 < jast> Yoshi2: whereabouts
23:33 < jast> ?
23:33 <+clonejo> dx: If you have spoken German all your live, German doesn't sound angry at all.
23:33 < Yoshi2> cologne
23:33 < jast> that's not so bad
23:33 <+pdelvo> we could meet at at gamescom this year too :D
23:33 < jast> I've traveled back and forth hundreds of times
23:33 < jast> I don't go to these things
23:33 < dx> clonejo: heh, i don't think it sounds angry either but stereotypes :D
23:34 < jast> stereotypes are fun
23:34 < jast> for example, did you know all Americans are fat idiots
23:34 < dx> every single one
23:34 < jast> exactly
23:34 < jast> as easily seen on American TV
23:34 <+pdelvo> Did you know all germans are living in Bayern?
23:35 < jast> sure
23:35 < jast> if you understand German quit well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsYRpNvHDRI
23:35 < Yoshi2> I don't know many people from northern germany
23:35 < Yoshi2> most of them are middle or southern
23:35 <+clonejo> Yoshi2: now you know me
23:35 < jast> one of my aunts lives in Hamburg
23:36 <+clonejo> I come from the north sea (Ostfriesland)
23:36 <+md_5> So how do we send in formatted chat on one point sic
23:36 <+md_5> Unformatted
23:37 < Not-002> [Miners] Wallbraker pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±3] http://git.io/EjjeEA
23:37 < Not-002> [Miners] Wallbraker 8f18d30 - charge: Fix module names
23:37 < Yoshi2> ah, it's nice to know you, clonejo :)
23:39 < AnotherOne> and yes
23:39 < AnotherOne> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFosAZOHioY
23:40 < AnotherOne> it's all about stereotypes
23:42 < jast> awesome album cover
23:43 < jast> here's another song about prejudice... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0_wzsOqt8Q
23:46 < AnotherOne> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coJG0vIqGb0 their earlier song, much less "nazism":)
23:46 < jast> kind of funny, but not for long
23:46 < jast> I'd much rather listen to Rammstein instead
23:48 < AnotherOne> not for me:)
23:49 < AnotherOne> fuck!
23:50 < AnotherOne> i don't know how to make my code better
23:50 <+clonejo> Yoshi2, jast, pdelvo: Where should we meetup?
23:50 < AnotherOne> heh
23:51 < AnotherOne> in Geilenkirchen, sure thing
23:51 < jast> no thanks
23:51 < jast> it's actually fairly boring
23:51 < Not-002> [Miners] Wallbraker pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-1/±1] http://git.io/giQu5g
23:51 < Not-002> [Miners] Wallbraker 2c418b5 - test: Remove Lua test
23:53 <+clonejo> well, Aachen would be the most central point
23:53 <+clonejo> but I was rather asking for the kind of location
23:53 < dx> doesn't look central to me
23:54 < jast> it's pretty central to the entire world
23:54 < dx> err...
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23:54 < dx> central to the entire world...
23:54 < dx> maybe central to the representation of maps that western people use
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23:56 <+pdelvo> Im actually in Aachen tomorrow. I have to go to the Finanzamt :D
23:56 < jast> you have my sympathy
23:57 <+clonejo> pdelvo: when will you go there?
23:57 < jast> anyway, the problem with such a meetup is that (a) it won't really have anything that ties it together (I refuse to spend an evening talking about minecraft development :P), (b) time constraints and stuff
23:58 <+clonejo> jast: we don't have to do much
23:58 < dav1d> fuck it why did they cancel homeland
23:58 <+pdelvo> very early. Im up at 6am. so I think im there at 8
23:59 <+clonejo> pdelvo: I'll arrive in Aachen at 13:44 :-/
--- Day changed lun. mai 27 2013
00:00 < dav1d> clonejo: you're at home?
00:00 < jast> fwiw I'm busy at all those times (sleeping and working)
00:00 < dav1d> oh a #mcdevs meeting
00:00 < dav1d> I suggest you to meet in vienna
00:00 < dx> I am a massive faggot lol
00:00 < dx> fuck
00:01 < jast> dx: that was a bit random, but we appreciate your honesty
00:01 < dx> sorry for that, friend is at home and saw this channel open
00:01 < dx> really really sorry
00:01 < jast> it's okay. you don't have to pretend. ;o)
00:01 < Yoshi2> your secret is safe with the ~100 people of this channel
00:01 < jast> unless ChanServ blabs
00:02 <+pdelvo> So: Always lock your computer!
00:02 < jast> well
00:03 <+clonejo> I thought about some meetup in a bar
00:03 <+pdelvo> not a bad idea :)
00:04 < jast> I don't appreciate pranks. if someone did that to me, I'd probably react accordingly.
00:05 <+clonejo> Yoshi2: are you in?
00:07 < Yoshi2> hm, I'm leaning towards no
00:07 < jast> I have few free evenings, so this will probably be a rather small meetup :)
00:07 <+clonejo> well, rather a small than none at all
00:07 < jast> just saying
00:07 <+clonejo> I can't let this opportunity go unused
00:07 < jast> go for it
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00:16 < AnotherOne> i have butthurt:(
00:17 < AnotherOne> fuck, there is no way to throw switch away
00:19 < AnotherOne> pdevlo, may i see your message handling code?
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00:25 < Not-002> [Miners] Wallbraker pushed 1 commit to wip-d2-port [+3/-0/±136] http://git.io/Ly_0KQ
00:25 < Not-002> [Miners] Wallbraker 59f5a80 - charge: Port to D2
00:31 < AnotherOne> who is Wallbraker?
00:31 <+Prf_Jakob> That would be me :)
00:35 <+pdelvo> AnotherOne if you write my name correctly I get notified :D Sorry. I dont think that my code helps you. My proxy is build to support a lot versions and translating between them
00:35 < AnotherOne> oops
00:35 < AnotherOne> sorry
00:36 <+pdelvo> np. just saying :D
00:36 < AnotherOne> mb you can give me a hint
00:36 <+pdelvo> If it hhelps you. It is not very performant the way I do, but it works :) https://github.com/pdelvo/Pdelvo.Minecraft/blob/master/Pdelvo.Minecraft.Protocol/PacketEndPoint.cs#L218
00:37 < AnotherOne> is Packet ancestor class?
00:38 <+pdelvo> all packets derive from Packet. each packet has the fields + reading/writing
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00:42 < AnotherOne> so problem is... i have classes for all messages. example is http://pastebin.com/nUTDxujw . All packets have these methods. i also have a function to check packet id and read corresponding packet. most of them are just skipped, but some are processed right in this function.
00:42 < AnotherOne> i want to separate processing
00:44 < AnotherOne> yes i can make array of pointers to functions, but...
00:44 < AnotherOne> it would be needles complication
00:44 < AnotherOne> needless*
00:45 <+pdelvo> I can tell you how to do it in .net, but I dont know what would be agood way in c++
00:45 < AnotherOne> tell me:)
00:50 <+pdelvo> I would seperate the logic from reading/writing the packets. I would make some kind of PacketImplementation<out T> base class (T : Packet) from which all classes derive which have the logic in it. I would use meta programming to get the types of these classes into a dictionary<Packet, Type> where I can look them up and create an instance of them. 
00:56 < AnotherOne> i have an idea...
00:57 < AnotherOne> my project is great
00:57 < AnotherOne> constant stepping off comfort zone
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01:36  * dx reads up
01:36  * mbaxter reads down
01:37 < dx> 19:15 < AnotherOne> i have butthurt:(
01:37 < dx> why.. why do you keep saying that
01:37 < dx> i'm starting to think you have no idea what that word means
01:37 < AnotherOne> because i keep having it
01:38 < Tux> Anyone here good with Craft.Net?
01:38 < dx> Tux: #craft.net
01:38 < dx> AnotherOne: how old are you?
01:38 < Tux> Thanks for the pointer dx
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01:38 < AnotherOne> 20
01:39 < dx> AnotherOne: i'd like to notify that you look like a 13 year old when you use that word
01:40 < AnotherOne> i will keep this fact in my mind, kind sir
01:41 < AnotherOne> http://pastebin.com/jnLMVTZH
01:46 < AnotherOne> is it ok?
01:46 < AnotherOne> to do like this
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02:08 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/kCUfjQ
02:08 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 3be8aef - Fix client bug related to connecting to online mode servers in offline mode
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02:40 <+md_5> http://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/1f3o5p/in_game_nes_emulator/
02:40 <+md_5> Finally posted to reddit
02:44 < AnotherOne> impressive
02:45 < mbaxter> only a year late
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03:05 < Seegee> Hello everyone
03:25 < Seegee> Is there any reason why SMProxy logs arn't showing me dropping items in creative mode...
03:25 < Seegee> I log in, move around a little, open creative inventory, and drop a few items
03:26 < Seegee> And SMProxy logs show everything except for me dropping the block (moving, looking, login, etc)
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04:31 < Seegee> dx: "[shnaw@irc.minecraft.org] has joined #mcdevs"
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05:21 < Not-002> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/HVknjg
05:21 < Not-002> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn b923f2b - Update Craft.Net submodule
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05:30 < DemoXin> Many more people in here than I expected to find.
05:33 < DemoXin> Can anyone here offer me any good resources for protocol information?  I'm currently looking at mc.kev009.com and I feel like there's most likely a more up to date set of information.
05:34 < Seegee> I use http://www.wiki.vg/
05:35 < Seegee> I know thats pretty up to date
05:36 < DemoXin> thank you.
05:39 <+AndrewPH> md_5: huh, that's a really neat idea
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05:42 < Seegee> DemoXin: No problem.
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05:45 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±4] http://git.io/50-geQ
05:45 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn f478f03 - Added overloads to do DNS lookups and such for the user
05:46 < TkTech> Seegee: wiki.vg is mc.kev009.com.
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05:47 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/yCO0Gw
05:47 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn f480ba5 - Added support for dropping item stacks in creative mode
05:48 < Seegee> Derp xD
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06:57 < Seegee> Hey md_5 are you here?
06:58 < Seegee> +md_5 **
07:01 <+SpaceManiac> Hm
07:07 < Seegee> I kind of need some help... It seems that my client thinks that every incoming packet is a keep alive packet
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07:23 <+pdelvo> @DemoXin this is the current wiki. Do you have some questions? Is there something unclear or wrong?
07:29 < DemoXin> No, I'm just getting started with MCServer, and wanted to make sure I wasn't learning anything archaic.
07:39 < DemoXin> I am curious as to whether chunks are used anywhere in the protocol other than transmitting map data initially?
07:40 < DemoXin> It looks to me like once a chunk has been sent the first time, either during login/worldchange or streaming the world, everything else is done through absolute coordiantes.
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07:45 < DemoXin> This makes me believe that if saving a map is not a requirement and its size is static and known, with most clients only connecting to a given map one time, it would be worth it to write my own map storage and convert to the "chunk" system at runtime.  Thoughts?
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08:19 < DemoXin> Does anyone know the size in memory of a block in the java server?
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08:23 <+SpaceManiac> of one block?
08:24 <+md_5> DemoXin one byte......
08:24 <+SpaceManiac> DemoXin: anyways, imo, not worth the hassle of differing from the standard
08:24 < DemoXin> the block doesn't store its own location or anything?  Just a block id?
08:25 <+md_5> the block would be stored as an array element
08:27 <+pdelvo> I would say at least 24bit
08:28 <+pdelvo> 8 bit block id. 4 bit metadata 4bit block light 4bit sky light
08:28 < DemoXin> Basically, I'm aiming to write my own server that handles multiple instances of the same map(s), but won't need to save anything to them. And I need the server to handle several different environments for players to connect to.
08:29 < DemoXin> So given that I can impose my own limitations on map generation and even when/where/if players can place blocks, I'm trying to figure the best way to load/store maps in memory.
08:31 <+md_5> using the standard format is fine
08:31 < DemoXin> My assumption is that it would be faster to keep all blocks loaded for the duration of a game, and impose the old height limit of 127 blocks, than to unload chunks and save them to be loaded at a later point in that same session.
08:31 <+md_5> its a few bytes really
08:31 < DemoXin> Again, all that would be possible because of a known and static map size.
08:32 < shoghicp> Like MCPE
08:33 < shoghicp> DemoXin: load on demand, and create another copy of the chunk once a modification is done
08:33 < shoghicp> that way you can have multiple instances, but only with the minichunks modified
08:34 < DemoXin> Only 80% of my instances are going to allow blocks to be removed or placed at all, the other 20% is what's presenting a problem.
08:34 < shoghicp> why?
08:34 < DemoXin> 20% will be allowed to edit blocks*
08:34 < DemoXin> 80% will have completely static maps.
08:34 < DemoXin> static, pregenerated, unchangable.
08:35 < shoghicp> that 20% will be a copy of a map in the 80% part?
08:36 < DemoXin> no, the 20% of games that allow changes to be made to the map will be traditional SMP, but with a map that has a known size (1000x1000ish), with a map generated when the game starts, and thrown away 30 minutes later when the game ends.
08:36 < shoghicp> anyways, you can load minichunks on demand, and disallow changes
08:36 < shoghicp> I mean
08:37 < shoghicp> save it on disk, and load the needed chunks
08:37 < DemoXin> So I can create my map format where persistence isn't a concern at all.
08:37 < shoghicp> First, you can get rid of empty chunks
08:38 < shoghicp> instead of 4096 blocks, just a boolean
08:38 < DemoXin> chunks with a height of127 are 32000 blocks
08:39 < DemoXin> 32kB per chunk of just block IDs, which is what I assume the server sends when a client needs a chunk
08:39 < shoghicp> an uncompressed 1024*128*1024 map (only blocks + metadata) needs 192MB
08:39 < shoghicp> IDs + metadata
08:40 <+pdelvo> +skylight+blocklight
08:40 < shoghicp> and in PC, light
08:40 < DemoXin> block IDs are 1 byte, and how long is metadata?
08:40 < shoghicp> 2.5 bytes per block
08:40 < shoghicp> uch
08:40 < shoghicp> half a byte
08:40 <+pdelvo> 0.5
08:41 < shoghicp> total, 2.5 bytes
08:41 <+pdelvo> blocklight is 0.5 and skylight is 0.5 which makes the lightning 1 byte per  block
08:41 < DemoXin> so 3 bytes per block in memory.
08:41 <+pdelvo> 2.5
08:41 < shoghicp> 2.5
08:42 < DemoXin> I want to figure high as well, as I'm planning on implementing block damage.
08:42 < DemoXin> So 4 bytes per block.
08:42 < shoghicp> Use tile entities for that
08:43 < shoghicp> so only blocks that have damage have that data
08:44 < DemoXin> I could just run a list with the stored coords of damagable blocks too...
08:44 < shoghicp> sure
08:44 < DemoXin> I'm not retrofitting, I'm writing my own core
08:44 < DemoXin> So I can take some liberties as long as I have a way of converting that data to the vanilla client.
08:46 < DemoXin> The map part is the bit that's throwing me for a loop.  I've never engineered my own map file format, but the traditional structure is far too much for my needs, and slimming it down would offer me some valuable performance.
08:46 < DemoXin> But if a block doesn't need to know it's own location, that makes things tons easier.
08:46 < DemoXin> that halfs the memory usage I had in mind.
08:46 < DemoXin> halves*
08:49 < DemoXin> How is my math wrong?
08:49 < shoghicp> I designed a new map format, because the Minecraft PE format used too munch memory
08:49 <+AndrewPH> imo make a map format in json
08:49 < shoghicp> It is based on Anvil, but adapted to the pocket format
08:49 < shoghicp> AndrewPH: o.O
08:50 <+AndrewPH> also do it in php and write a php interpreter in perl
08:50 < DemoXin> I'm coming up with 381MB for a 1024x1024x127 map...
08:50 < shoghicp> DemoXin: clean empty chunks and use gzip
08:50 < SinZ> AndrewPH: only way to go
08:51 < DemoXin> no chunks would be empty though, they'd all be pregenerated.
08:51 < shoghicp> Everything will be filled up to 128?
08:52 < DemoXin> no, but I'm talking about my storage in memory, not what gets sent over the network
08:52 < shoghicp> But you can clean that part ;)
08:53 < shoghicp> You can replace entire minichunks of AIR with a boolean
08:53 < DemoXin> I.E. instead of storing a struct, I store a 0 in that element of the array?
08:53 < DemoXin> and only allocate structs for blocks that are actual blocks...
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08:54 < shoghicp> minichunk = 16x16x16 blocks
08:55 < shoghicp> so you have 8 minichunks in a chunk
08:55 < shoghicp> (128 Y max)
08:56 -!- r04r|away is now known as r04r
08:57 < DemoXin> Maybe I'm shooting myself in the foot with a game type that allows block changes... with all the other types I have in mind, I'll be able to make a converter that takes my maps from a creative vanilla server and parse them into my own format where I remove any excess blocks (I.E. has a block on all 6 sides)...
08:58 < DemoXin> It's the same game type that's going to present the challenge of writing my own terrain generator.
08:58 < DemoXin> And also eat the most bandwidth...
08:58 < shoghicp> That remembers me that I need a true terrain generator
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09:18 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r1992 3 files : Made a few MapGen classes internal
09:22 -!- luntik13 [~Sashka@m83-176-140-154.cust.tele2.lv] has joined #mcdevs
09:22 < luntik13> hi
09:23 < luntik13> is pbunny still banned?
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09:31 < SinZ> yup
09:32 <+AndrewPH> Let's all walk around in our banana shoes
09:32 < luntik13> SinZ: but why? he used to help people here
09:32 < SinZ> he never helped anyone ever
09:33 < SinZ> only cause trouble
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09:33 -!- mode/#mcdevs [+v SpaceManiac] by ChanServ
09:33 < luntik13> i asked him, he just told me channel is run by weird ops
09:33 < luntik13> SinZ: wrong
09:34 < SinZ> having a lulzsec.com hostname, he wasn't needed in the community
09:34 < luntik13> so it's because of the host?
09:34 < luntik13> lolomg
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09:37 < AlphaModder> is there some packet for blocking? i need to make a HumanEntity block
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09:42 < DemoXin> This is a substantially less involved question.  I know it's possible to make falling sand look like any block.  Can that be done in the vanilla client with making a beacon look like a chest?
09:43 < shoghicp> DemoXin: place a beacon under the chest
09:43 < shoghicp> the cehst is transparent
09:43 < shoghicp> chest*
09:44 < DemoXin> simple enough
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09:44 < shoghicp> (+ iron blocks ;) )
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09:45 < DemoXin> Does the client detect if the beacon is powered?  I assumed that was server-side.
09:46 < shoghicp> that is server side, right
09:46 < shoghicp> (a tile entity event, I think)
09:46 < DemoXin> I'll have to to figure that out.
09:47 < DemoXin> I actually like your minichunk concept... Since I'm building a map compiler, I actually can figure those chunks out at compile time to increase load speeds too...
09:48 < DemoXin> And I'm assuming they'll improve the gzip compression levels even on occupied chunks if all the blocks in that minichunk are the same.
09:48 < shoghicp> right
09:48 < shoghicp> I've compressed a 23MB map in 40KB
09:49 < AlphaModder> anyone know if theres a blocking packet?
09:49 < shoghicp> so it works pretty good ;)
09:49 < dx> good morning mcdonalds developers
09:49 < dx> heh one of the pbunny clones is back i see
09:50 < shoghicp> pbunny clones?
09:50 < dx> 04:21 < luntik13> is pbunny still banned?
09:50 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r1993 5 files : Fixed scrolling in RealisticMapGenGui, and moved some more shared code (removing margin/padding/border, and automatically resizing) from implementations to MapGeneratorGui base class.
09:50 < dx> totally not obvious
09:51 < SinZ> dx: inorite, only himself would question the ban
09:51 < shoghicp> xD
09:52 < dx> i mean it could be an irl friend (implying irl friends) but functionally it still works as a pbunny clone
09:53 < AlphaModder> no one knows? :(
09:55 < dx> blocking packet? i think most networking implementations are synchronous and blocking but you're free to use async
09:55  * dx totally interpreted that question wrong
09:56  * DemoXin wishes he could answer that question, but doesn't know.
09:56 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r1994 4 files : Added stub FloatingIslandMapGen classes.
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09:57 < dx> AlphaModder: you mean blocking with a sword? since you do it with right click it's most likely "use entity" without target entity, but that's just a wild guess, just use a proxy and find out yourself
09:58 < AlphaModder> yes. hmmm... i think ill just open up the minecraft source and find out lol.
09:58 < dx> what source there's no source
09:58 < dx> nobody heard about source here
09:59 < dx> use a proxy like a man
09:59 < SinZ> ^
09:59 < dx> (women should use proxies too, and any gender in the middle too)
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10:06 < dx> by the way, is libpcap support in a proxy like mc3p a terrible idea? i mean, instead of acting like a proxy, just listen everything in the tcp connection to 25565 and parse packets there
10:07 < dx> sounds like it would be fun to implement but the idea can't be new so you guys must have noticed downsides (either that or nobody cared :D)
10:09 < AlphaModder> when an item is right clicked: Packet15Place(-1, -1, -1, 255, currentItem, 0.0F, 0.0F, 0.0F));
10:09 < AlphaModder> o.o
10:09 < dx> damn that's a weird proxy dude
10:10 < AlphaModder> ...lol
10:10 -!- r04r|away is now known as r04r
10:10 < dx> anyway yes that one is sent if the item you're holding is a block
10:11 < dx> or is it if you're right clicking a block...? either way it's not for swords
10:11 < AlphaModder> according to this, its under sendUseItem 
10:12 < dx> oh wait you said item
10:12 < dx> and i'm expecting this protocol to make sense
10:12 < AlphaModder> lol
10:12 < dx> NEVERMIND
10:12 < AlphaModder> minecraft protocol != logic
10:15 < dx> oh neat the minecraft client works normally now. some java update broke the rendering and i had to do weird things to run it.
10:16 < dx> java.io.FileNotFoundException: http://assets.minecraft.net/1_6_has_been_released.flag
10:16 < dx> pro
10:19 <+md_5> blocking is client side iirc
10:19 < TobiX> dx: I haven't looked at the Minecraft protocol recently, but isn't using libpcap quite impossible when encryption is active?
10:23 < dx> TobiX: hmmm right, i'm dumb. i guess it could be possible to do it with offline servers, but having to set a server to offline to be able to sniff sucks
10:27 < DemoXin> Is Bukkit 100% vanilla compliant for 1.5.2?
10:28 <+pdelvo> the protocol?
10:28 < DemoXin> yeah
10:28 <+pdelvo> it is, as far you are not using any plugin which changes it
10:28 < DemoXin> okay.
10:28 < DemoXin> thank you
10:30 < SinZ> bukkit generally forbids changing the protocol anyway
10:30 < SinZ> they force the use of Packet250PluginChannels
10:31 <+pdelvo> http://dev.bukkit.org/server-mods/protocollib/
10:31 < DemoXin> I'm wanting to adhere to the vanilla client's capabilities, so I'm okay with that.
10:32 < DemoXin> All of my scripting is going to be server-side.
10:36 <+SpaceManiac> dx: if that fails to dl (e.g. minecraft.net is filtered) it shows a message saying a 1.6 prerelease is out
10:36 <+SpaceManiac> or, I should say, succeeds in downloading but does not return the actual file
10:38 < dx> SpaceManiac: yeah i realized that much :P. but i believe they used a different method before...
10:38 < dx> still using the old launcher here
10:39 < SinZ> its prob to tell people with the old launcher to get the new launcher
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10:44 < nastyCreeper> hi
10:52 <+SpaceManiac> hi
10:54 < dx> SinZ: so this launcher can autoupdate too? :D
10:54 < dx> i should check the LAUNCHER SOURCE CODE
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10:55 < SinZ> dx: new launcher self-updates
10:55 < SinZ> old launcher doesn't
10:57 < dx> SinZ: yeah i know
10:58 < dx> SinZ: but since it did this check during login, i sort of wished it would be the launcher doing it instead of the client itself
10:58 < SinZ> well, the new launcher doesn't need to check
10:58 < SinZ> and the old launcher cant check
10:58 < dx> yeah
10:58 < dx> also this repo is a lie https://github.com/Mojang/LegacyLauncher/tree/master/src/main/java/net/minecraft/launchwrapper
10:58 < dx> it's just the wrapper
10:59 < dx> ...well calling it a lie might be too harsh, let's say "partial truth"
10:59 <+md_5> http://www.spigotmc.org/threads/please-allow-me-to-introduce-myself.2370/
10:59 <+md_5> remember this guy
11:00 < SinZ> I don't
11:01 <+SpaceManiac> dx: wait, so what is it even? the web applet part?
11:01 <+md_5> its a bytecode transformer
11:01 <+md_5> to make old MC versions respect working directory and icon
11:02 <+SpaceManiac> How/when is it actually used?
11:02 < SinZ> new launcher, not 1.6
11:03 <+SpaceManiac> ah
11:04 < dx> repo called LegacyLauncher, actually contains a minimal piece of code used by the new launcher to launch legacy versions
11:05 < dx> totally what everyone expected
11:05 <+SpaceManiac> why even bother publicizing it?
11:05 < nastyCreeper> what is the point of hiding the source?
11:06 < nastyCreeper> information must be free
11:06 < dx> being on github has the same value as being deobfuscated in the jar, at least until they put proper license texts
11:07 < dx> SpaceManiac: maybe it's something the people who make launchers for forge mods need?
11:07 <+SpaceManiac> who knows
11:08 < dx> ¯\(°_o)/¯ 
11:08 < dx> i'll submit an issue asking for licensing information just to be annoying
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11:15 < AnotherOne> lol
11:15 -!- TomyLobo [~TomyLobo@91-66-112-147-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Standby mode...]
11:17 < AnotherOne> in russia they say "he has an awl in his butt" about people who do something just to be annoying
11:19 < dx> it's a valid legal issue though
11:19 < dx> it's just one i don't personally care about
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11:50 < r04r> What was the protocol thing called again which clients use to query the motd and players online and all that?
11:50 < r04r> Like for the server list
11:50 <+md_5> it was packet 0xFE
11:51 < r04r> Thanks!
11:51 < r04r> I made a simple proxy for servers with extremely low activity hosted on amazon EC2, turns the server off after 1 hour, and turns it back on when someone tries to connect
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12:25 < dx> r04r: sounds neat!
12:25 < dx> r04r: do you do anything to let them connect quickly instead of waiting 30 seconds for the server to boot?
12:26 < dx> actually... you could just send SIGSTOP if resource usage is the issue
12:27 <+pdelvo> you could get issues with "took too long to login"
12:28 <+pdelvo> then you have to spawn players somewhere until the server booted up
12:29 < dx> well SIGSTOP just blocks the whole process from using any cpu time
12:29 < dx> making it return after that is instant, the server should only notice some "lag" (few hours long lag spike :D)
12:31 < dx> but i don't know if EC2 charges based on cpu time or if it's memory usage too
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12:33 < dx> hah, this thing exists: http://cryopid.berlios.de/
12:34 <+pdelvo> it does not support rebounding tcp sockets yet :(
12:34 < r04r> dx: None of that, it just kicks them telling them to reconnect after a minute. There is an added wait time for the virtual machine to be allocated and to boot. After everything is working smoothly I might add a simple server with a lounge, but not too sure how feasable that is.
12:34 < dx> it doesn't? bah. they advertise it as useful for irssi
12:35 <+pdelvo> "In future versions, listening sockets will be rebound, and UDP and UNIX sockets will be reconnected."
12:35 <+pdelvo> "In future version" - "Never"
12:35 < r04r> EC2 charges for VM uptime, not cpu cycles
12:35 < dx> pdelvo: pretty much
12:35 < dx> r04r: oh i see
12:36 -!- Paprikachu [~Paprikach@80.120.175.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:36 < dx> (you can clearly see i only cared about their free plan)
12:38 < dx> https://lists.berlios.de/pipermail/cryopid-devel/2013-May/000323.html
12:38 < dx> this is all the activity in their mailing list in the last 12 months or so
12:39 < dx> it's user mode though, it should still work
12:39 < Grum> dx: seriously? :/
12:40 < dx> Grum: what?
12:40 < Grum> repo-issue
12:40 < dx> Grum: i say a lot of stupid things regularly, you need to point out which one you consider questionable
12:41 < dx> Grum: oh the license of that? yes, why not? does it bother you?
12:41 < Grum> O.o
12:41 < Grum> does it bother you? :D
12:41 < dx> yep
12:41 < Grum> making issues out of thin air!
12:41 < dx> well, people might want to use that code in GPL licensed projects
12:42 < Grum> so? :)
12:42 < dx> people can also get *those* projects in legal trouble for including this code with dubious license
12:42 < Grum> so?
12:42 < dx> gotcha, you don't care
12:42 < dx> copy-pasting a MIT license takes zero effort though
12:43 < Grum> \o/
12:43 < Grum> its not zero, its slightly more
12:43 < Grum> enough to not care
12:43 < dx> yes, i have noticed that your threshold of effort required to stop caring is extremely low
12:43 < Grum> no, we have other stuff to do we have to care for because of time constraints :)
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12:44 <+pdelvo> I could do a pull request so you just need to press a green button :)
12:45 < dx> pdelvo: still too much effort, sorry
12:46 < Grum> i'd press the red button
12:46 < Grum> red is much nicer
12:49 < dx> i just noticed i had a tab open with "meme generator" that someone posted here yesterday
12:49 < dx> i think it's been in a "loading" state since yesterday too
12:49 <+pdelvo> http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=9644
12:53 < dx> pdelvo: i was going to say "old" but instead i just did it all, again.
12:54 <+pdelvo> This is what happes if you press red buttons: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=316AzLYfAzw
13:02 < dx> pdelvo: oh neat, sequel video, and it's even better than the original
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13:52 < AnotherOne> is it ok to use SDL for my client?
13:53 < AnotherOne> or are there any alternatives?
13:53 < AnotherOne> cross-platform alternatives
13:53 < nastyCreeper> everything but directx is okay
13:53 < nastyCreeper> i would use pure opengl
13:54 < nastyCreeper> though sdl is probably faster
13:54 < nastyCreeper> to develop
13:55 < TobiX> nastyCreeper: Well, there is enough stuff that's not covered in OpenGL, which makes using SDL worthwhile (like, window setup, input, etc.)
13:55 < AnotherOne> reinventing a wheel is not nice:)
13:56 < AnotherOne> especially if you reinvent a square wheel
13:57 < TobiX> AnotherOne: I would suggest going straight for SDL2, even if it isn't packaged in most Linux distros yet
13:57 <+Prf_Jakob> I would suggest going for SDL1, 2 doesn't give you anything more really if all you want is a window and GL context.
13:58 < AnotherOne> waht is the difference?
13:59 < TobiX> And if you are doing commercial stuff, going for SDL2 gives you less licence headaces (zlib vs. LGPL)
13:59 < TobiX> AnotherOne: Mostly support for newer platforms (AFAIK)
14:01 < AnotherOne> what do you think about mutexes?
14:01 < AnotherOne> i'm afraid of them
14:02 <+Prf_Jakob> I would recommend only doing single threaded to begin with, so no mutexes.
14:03 < AnotherOne> heh
14:03 < TobiX> The "problem" of going with SDL1.2 now is: SDL2 made changes that are not backward compatible, so if you decide somewhere down the line to port to SDL2, this will be more effort then just switching libraries...
14:03 < TobiX> OTOH, SDL1.2 is a very stable codebase, which will probably stay around for quite some time
14:03 <+Prf_Jakob> of course SDL2 isn't stable so you have to put in effort to keep it up to date.
14:04 <+Prf_Jakob> and that
14:04 < AnotherOne> how should i make single-threaded network i/o?
14:04 <+Prf_Jakob> polling
14:04 < jast> what language are you working in ?
14:04 < AnotherOne> C++
14:04 < jast> s/ \?/?/
14:05 < jast> right... if you don't want to work with thousands of clients, one of the existing I/O and event frameworks will probably work for you
14:06 < AnotherOne> so let's imagine...
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14:07 < AnotherOne> what if my program freezes during reading from socket?
14:07 <+Prf_Jakob> if you are using non-blocking sockets they wont
14:08 < AnotherOne> non-blocking sockets...
14:08 < AnotherOne> wrapped threads?
14:08 < jast> no
14:08 < AnotherOne> what then?
14:08 <+Prf_Jakob> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asynchronous_I/O
14:09 < jast> async is actually another thing
14:09 <+Prf_Jakob> yes
14:09 < jast> but basically FDs can be configured to return 'try again later' instead of blocking
14:09 < jast> on operations on them
14:09 < jast> and then you have a mechanism where you can either query or get notified about which sockets are ready
14:10 <+Prf_Jakob> http://www.kegel.com/dkftpbench/nonblocking.html
14:10 < jast> any decent I/O framework takes care of that for you
14:14 < dx> non-blocking sockets are bad :(
14:17 < jast> uh
14:17 < dx> select()/poll() and blocking is the way to go, since unless you're wrapping the socket with something weird, checking if you can read a socket before you read it won't block
14:17 < jast> are you on drugs or something?
14:17 < dx> non-blocking is okay if you know what you're doing
14:17 < dx> most beginners don't
14:17 < AnotherOne> i will try threaded version
14:18 < jast> blocking is just as error-prone
14:18 < AnotherOne> mutexes seem more ok than boost::asio
14:18 < dx> o_o