21:44 <+pdelvo> I know some more vilgar ones :D
21:44 < eddyb> I'm outta here, sleep time (been getting like 4 hours as of late, it sucks D:)
21:44 < AnotherOne> is '?' used in moderb german?
21:44 < AnotherOne> modern*
21:44 < AnotherOne> good night
21:45 < eddyb> I see a question mark
21:45 < eddyb> is ? used in modern german?
21:45 < AnotherOne> oh
21:45 <+pdelvo> question marks are very common after a question
21:45 < eddyb> haha
21:45 < jast> you probably mean ß? looks a bit like greek beta?
21:45 < jast> yes, it is
21:45 < AnotherOne> yes
21:46 < eddyb> it has to do something with W, since AltGr+W = ß
21:46 < eddyb> or SS
21:46 < jast> no relation to W
21:46 < jast> it's a ligature of ss or sz, depending on the font
21:46 < dav1d> ß
21:47 < dav1d> yes it is used
21:47 < AnotherOne> heh
21:47 < dav1d> but the rules are kinda complex 
21:47 < jast> not anymore, they aren't
21:47 < dav1d> well not kinda complex, they are
21:47 < jast> thanks to our newly regulated spelling
21:47 < dav1d> jast: neue rechtschreibung?
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21:47 < dav1d> oh well, I learned it the old way, maybe they changed the rules
21:47 < dav1d> still used to the old
21:48 <+pdelvo> I write it the way I think the word "look right"
21:48 < jast> now it's very simple: in a place where you might think about using ß, it's ß if the preceding vowel is long (in pronunciation) or a combined vowel (e.g. 'ei'); otherwise it's 'ss'
21:49 < AnotherOne> http://www.design.caltech.edu/erik/Misc/Twain_english.html
21:49 < AnotherOne> why no always ss?
21:50 <+pdelvo> dont ask us why the german orthography is how it is :D
21:50 < jast> for hysterical raisins
21:50 < jast> for extra fun: there is no uppercase ß, so in all caps it's always 'SS'
21:50 <+pdelvo> to make it hard to learn
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21:51 < jast> various attempts to introduce an uppercase ß have not met any noteworthy adoption
21:51 <+pdelvo> if you would always use ss instead of ß you would have problems with e.g. "Maße" and "Masse"
21:52 < dav1d> I like the ß
21:52 < dav1d> the "sharp s" :
21:52 < dav1d> :D
21:52 < jast> for the history of the letter (both the glyph and the usage of it), see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9F
21:52 <+pdelvo> "Maße" - Dimensions, "Masse" - mass
21:52 < jast> yeah, that's a problem
21:53 < AnotherOne> dat irc
21:53 < AnotherOne> i see russian letter in first word
21:53 < dav1d> also a "Mass"
21:53 < dav1d> actually Maß
21:53 < AnotherOne> can i set unicode in kvirc?
21:54 < dav1d> one liter delicious beer
21:54 < dav1d> AnotherOne: I think you can set it to utf-8
21:54 < dav1d> if not, this irc client is strange 
21:54 < jast> The pre-1996 orthography encouraged the use of SZ in place of ß in words with all letters capitalized where a usual SS would produce an ambiguous result. One possible ambiguity was between IN MASZEN (in limited amounts; Maß, "measure") and IN MASSEN (in massive amounts; Masse, "mass").
21:54 < jast> I didn't even know that
22:05 <+clonejo> jast: There is an uppercase ß: ẞ
22:05 < jast> there is, but it's not really used by anyone worth mentioning
22:05 < jast> nor is it "official"
22:05 <+clonejo> I can type it on my keyboard
22:05 < jast> in other news, TIL that the new spelling rules for ß were initially conceived around the same time the previous rules were
22:05 < jast> give or take a few decades
22:06 < jast> but basically in the 18th~19th century
22:22 < dx> dammit
22:22 < dx> pdelvo: why is your nick so similar to pbunny, i thought he had returned :(
22:22 < dav1d> lol
22:23 < dx> i should mention that i slept 45 mins in the last 24 hours
22:23 <+pdelvo> Im sorry that my name is similar to his ones :(
22:23 < dx> :(
22:24 < dx> to be fair eddyb looks like an inverted pbunny too
22:24 <+pdelvo> there is one char in my name that is in pbunnys name
22:25 < dx> hmm that too
22:25 < dx> but i was considering the b, flipped to look like a p
22:25 < dx> i need sleep badly
22:26 < dx> but i have to go do stuff irl in a while :(
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23:26 <+md_5> mornin'
23:27 <+pdelvo> good morning
23:27 <+md_5> gizmodo.com.au broken for anyone else?
23:27 <+md_5> no css
23:28 <+pdelvo> looks okay for me
23:31 <+md_5> hmm just on firefox
23:31 <+md_5> odd
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00:24 < AnotherOne> oh, nice snapshot
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--- Log opened ven. mai 24 05:15:40 2013
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08:40 <+md_5> I'm sorry
08:40 <+md_5> pardon my french
08:40 <+md_5> but the new chat system is FUCKED
08:41 <+md_5> absolutely
08:41 <+md_5> even a plain user chat message is a json encoded format string
08:41  * md_5 goes to hang sell
08:41 <+md_5> self
08:41 <+md_5> this is so
08:41 < Yoshi2> json encoded? wow
08:41 <+md_5> unbelieavably
08:41 <+md_5> stupid
08:41 <+md_5> what
08:42 <+md_5> the
08:42 <+md_5> actual
08:42 < Yoshi2> what do they want to achieve with that?
08:42 <+md_5> you have to send
08:42 <+md_5> like a 500 byte json
08:42 <+md_5> to say 'a' into chat
08:42 <+md_5> and then you have to apply String.format(..) to it
08:42 <+md_5> after json decoding it
08:43 < Yoshi2> what data does the json string contain? o.O
08:43 <+md_5> https://gist.github.com/Dinnerbone/5631634
08:43 <+md_5> EVEN A PLAIN CHAT MESSAGE IS 'translated'
08:45 < Yoshi2> hmm, I think I understand what they are trying to do here
08:45 < Yoshi2> but it is still weird
08:51 < AnotherOne> omfg
08:52 < AnotherOne> and those people made ints * 8 instead of doubles
08:52 < SinZ> wat
08:52 < AnotherOne> http://www.wiki.vg/Protocol#Named_Sound_Effect_.280x3E.29
08:53 < AnotherOne> i like the way mojang tries to save traffic
08:53 < AnotherOne> -8b per sound effect, +500b per chat message
08:53 < AnotherOne> -12*
08:53 < SinZ> well, since sound effects used to be client side only
08:54 <+md_5> oh
08:54 <+md_5> and then retarded things
08:54 <+md_5> like: "Cannot sleep here:" is a special packet, not chat message.
08:54 < AnotherOne> heh
08:55 < AnotherOne> well this is indie game
08:55 < Yoshi2> 500 bytes might be an exaggeration, but it looks like the new json format adds some considerable overhead which can be as high as twice the size of the old message or more
08:55 <+SpaceManiac> it's pretty ridiculous
08:55 <+md_5> uh
08:55 <+md_5> well each char is 2 bytes
08:55 <+md_5> so a chat message
08:55 <+md_5> is probably 150 bytes extra
08:56 < AnotherOne> if they want, they make special packet for anything, if they want, they put a picture of nam fucking goose to menu screen
08:56 < AnotherOne> man*
08:57 <+Fador> well, every change in the inventory used to send full inventory as NBT
08:57 <+Fador> same with chests
09:00 < AnotherOne> lazy, lazy mojang
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09:16 < Not-001> [PartyCraft] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/yfSCxg
09:16 < Not-001> [PartyCraft] SirCmpwn 7e30d2e - Update Craft.Net submodule
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09:47 < TobiX> Why not convert the whole protocol to JSON? :)
09:50 < Not-001> [PartyCraft] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+6/-1/±6] http://git.io/RvTmNg
09:50 < Not-001> [PartyCraft] SirCmpwn 4e4e5f2 - Added basic runtime-compiled plugin support
09:57 < AnotherOne> really, why not?:)
09:59 <+Fador> no, it has to be converted to XML!
10:02 < Not-001> [PartyCraft] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+2/-0/±2] http://git.io/RKTeGQ
10:02 < Not-001> [PartyCraft] SirCmpwn ea14342 - Removed boilerplate from scripts
10:07 < Not-001> [PartyCraft] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/hU8-7w
10:07 < Not-001> [PartyCraft] SirCmpwn 310fb68 - Added distinction between compiled and evaluated scripts
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10:10 < Not-001> [wiki] Edit by SirCmpwn to Server List -> http://tinyurl.com/nzrhhfb
10:10  * Kyle is curious
10:11 < Kyle> Isn't SirCmpwn still banned? Why is his project still on the botlist for this channel? heh
10:17 < Not-001> [wiki] Edit by Thinkofdeath to Server List -> http://tinyurl.com/nurjhcw
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10:20 < jast> why is he banned btw?
10:20 < Kyle> jast: he finally pushed it too far.
10:21 < jast> I don't think notifico has a mechanism that allows channel ops to get rid of entries that target their channel
10:21 < Kyle> jast: /me notes TkTech owns Notifico and can easily fix that
10:21 < jast> well okay, but *what* did he push :)
10:21 < Kyle> and that might be a good feature.
10:21 < jast> yeah
10:21 < Kyle> An ability for a channel op to request an easy removal on the website then confirm in channel while opped with something like Not-001: verify sometokenhere
10:22 < Kyle> TkTech: ^
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10:24 < TobiX> Fador: Well, it worked quite well for XMPP (which isn't the nicest XML around, but it works[tm])
10:26 < TobiX> FWIW I don't think Minecraft needs a binary protocol at all. Bandwidth is not the main problem for MC's performance... (IMHO, not benchmarked)
10:28 < jast> except it sends two billion packets per second
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10:29 < jast> Kyle: that would actually require quite a bit of extra state tracking, presumably
10:31 < Calinou> 20 ticks/second for a mining-style game! oh yes!
10:31 < Calinou> ^ reason of lag :P
10:32 < jast> TCP-based protocol
10:32 < jast> ^ reason for lag
10:33 < AnotherOne> mojang
10:33 < AnotherOne> ^ reason for lag
10:33 < Calinou> also, TCP
10:33 < Calinou> TCP for real time games is a bad idea
10:33 < Calinou> yet a few people seem to support it
10:34 < AnotherOne> variants?
10:34 < AnotherOne> UDP?
10:36 < AnotherOne> *logging in to game server, shoot, shoot shoot, enemy teleports, YOU ARE DEAD! whoops, healt update*
10:36 < jast> UDP is fairly low-level, so yeah, that'll work better, though it means extra work for you
10:36 < TobiX> AnotherOne: Since all other protocols (!TCP or UDP) have very bad OS support, UDP would be the prefered choice...
10:36 < jast> there are other, less commonly used (and supported) protocols that might be a better fit
10:37 < TobiX> SCTP?
10:40 < AnotherOne> wtf std::copy does not work
10:40 <+ammar2> Kyle: does it really matter if his project's commits still show up here? It's not like he's abusing it to distrupt this channel or anything
10:40 < AnotherOne> oh it does
10:40 <+ammar2> Calinou: who supports tcp? ;_;
10:41 < jast> mojang does!
10:41 < jast> because, you know, UDP isn't reliable !!111!1
10:42 < Kyle> ammar2: Just curious is all, I saw a wall of text :p
10:42 <+ammar2> oh no the player skipped a movement packet and moved by 0.3 more blocks, quite the travesty
10:42 <+Fador> TCP_NODELAY fixed lag on my server ;)
10:42 < jast> if your connection is good, that's all fine and dandy
10:43 < Calinou> there is nearly no PL with a good connection, AnotherOne 
10:43 < Calinou> less than 1%
10:43 < AnotherOne> TCP_NODELAY + minecraft protocol = net rape
10:43 < jast> if it's not, suddenly because of TCP you not only receive a packet for each tick (or some such madness); you also re-receive multiple packets if just one gets lost
10:43 < jast> that's tons of overhead
10:43 < AnotherOne> ^
10:44 < jast> whereas with a delta-type UDP protocol, you just don't care about the lost packet
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10:49 < AnotherOne> i've improved my code generator
10:50 < AnotherOne> looks like next step will be reading wiki
10:50 < TobiX> jast: But you would have to make all position updates absolute. That's "inefficient" ;)
10:50 < SinZ> lol, just saw pbunnys website for his server software
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10:50 < jast> nah, just relative to the last acknowledged packet
10:51 < SinZ> I *hate* working with udp sockets
10:51 < jast> poor you
10:51 < AnotherOne> so what about packet order, jast?
10:52 < AnotherOne> tell us the ultimate secret how to rule udp
10:52 < jast> if you use a delta encoding with reference to a base, order is irrelevant
10:52 < jast> well, I didn't make this stuff up
10:52 < jast> all the big names in networked games do this
10:53 < jast> for instance, https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Source_Multiplayer_Networking
10:54 < jast> there are a few additional challenges in minecraft, of course, due to the larger data amount
10:54 < jast> but nothing that's fundamentally impossible
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10:57 < AnotherOne> damn
10:57 < AnotherOne> where is my little console programming world...
10:57 < CandidaMaster> hi
10:57 < jast> for example, to prevent having to retransmit a full snapshot during short-term heavy packet loss, you could increase the window for client state tracking
10:57 < AnotherOne> hi
10:58 < Calinou> MLCPW, my little console programming world :3
10:59 < jast> and full snapshots could be more strongly compressed than they currently are, most likely
10:59 < jast> none of that is trivial, but it's still doable
10:59 < AnotherOne> i like this channel
11:00 < AnotherOne> everyone here knows how to make minecraft better than mojang:)
11:00 < AnotherOne> i wish mojang listened to you
11:00 < Calinou> hello phoronix forums user
11:00 < SinZ> AnotherOne: everyone here thinks*
11:00 < Calinou> AMD drivers are shit amirite
11:00 < jast> I'm sure they know a lot, too
11:00 < jast> but coming up with a solution is much less work than actually implementing it
11:01 < jast> and if you have limited resources, you have to prioritize
11:01 < AnotherOne> sacrificing performance
11:01 < AnotherOne> who cares about performance today...
11:01 < jast> (by which I mean limited *developer time*)
11:02 < AnotherOne> heh
11:02 < AnotherOne> fukk it guys thank you all
11:03 < AnotherOne> you gave me much experience
11:03 < jast> not to mention that rumour has it that the minecraft codebase isn't exactly the thing you want to do such huge changes to
11:04 < Calinou> suddenly: MCP
11:04 < Calinou> no rumors 4 u
11:04 < Yoshi2> I can imagine that
11:04 < Yoshi2> some pieces of code are so fragile, the slightest change could break everything
11:05 < AnotherOne> dirty java hacks
11:05 < jast> java has nothing to do with it
11:06 < jast> *any* program will get hard to maintain after a year or two of shifting requirements
11:06 < jast> if you don't invest substantial amounts of time into refactoring along the way
11:06 < AnotherOne> yes
11:17 < AnotherOne> damn tcp
11:17 < AnotherOne> im so tired of reworking my protocol lib
11:20 < Calinou> lolprotocollib
11:20 < Calinou> we now have 252 of them
11:21 < Calinou> ~protocollib random 3
11:21 < Calinou> PonyLib, enet, AnotherOneAwesomeLIB
11:22 < AnotherOne> heh
11:22 < SinZ> automatically being generated from wiki or gtfo
11:23 < AnotherOne> nope
11:23 < AnotherOne> modularity or gtfo
11:23 < AnotherOne> to be able generate packets from wiki i must have stable architecture
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13:01 < Not-001> [wiki] Edit by Thinkofdeath to Client List -> http://tinyurl.com/qfcth4p
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13:16 < Not-001> [wiki] Edit by Thinkofdeath to Library List -> http://tinyurl.com/px75wk7
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13:18 < Not-001> [wiki] Edit by Thinkofdeath to Utility List -> http://tinyurl.com/p6lrb6x
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14:23 < redu> asdasdasdqwee
14:23 <+pdelvo> qwert
14:23 < redu> mine was longer
14:33 < TobiX> >>>--------->knee
14:34 < SinZ> That's not even friendly!
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15:20 < Grum> < AnotherOne> i wish mojang listened to you <-- we do
15:23 < TobiX> \o/
15:24 < Grum>  /o\
15:24 < Yoshi2> \o\
15:25 < Grum> _oX
15:25 < Grum> hmm something bad happened there :)
15:32 < dav1d> lol
15:37 < TobiX> I raise to laola: https://gist.github.com/TobiX/5643558 ;)
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16:36 -!- mode/#mcdevs [+o sadimusi] by ChanServ
16:36 -!- mode/#mcdevs [-b *!*@static-71-174-73-11.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] by sadimusi
16:36 -!- mode/#mcdevs [-o sadimusi] by sadimusi
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16:47 < nastyCreeper> hi
16:49 < SinZ> hi..
16:51 < nastyCreeper> how are you today SinZ
16:59 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 4 commits to master [+1/-0/±8] http://git.io/Gq6C2Q
16:59 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath e6b63dd - Maybe not...
16:59 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath f015a1b - Made the creative inventory work
16:59 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 0606e1e - Simplified lighting
16:59 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 9e15406 - Add debug info to lighting
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17:04 < Not-001> [mc-erl] clonejo pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-0/±0] http://git.io/ld7s5Q
17:04 < Not-001> [mc-erl] clonejo 2dd78a9 - implemented eid registry
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18:15 < Not-001> [mc-erl] clonejo pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-1/±18] http://git.io/Kr_g_g
18:15 < Not-001> [mc-erl] clonejo 880f329 - mc-erl is now officially licensed under the terms of the GNU General Public License, nbt (MIT licensed) moved out as dependency
18:15 <+clonejo> \o/
18:18 < Not-001> [wiki] Edit by Clonejo to Server List -> http://tinyurl.com/oysy54y
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18:29 < Not-001> [PartyCraft] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-0/±3] http://git.io/m7cJlg
18:29 < Not-001> [PartyCraft] SirCmpwn 3fdf0dc - Added REPL mode for in-game scripting
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18:49 < AnotherOne> evening
18:49 <+pdelvo> hi
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19:20 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 3 commits to master [+0/-0/±22] http://git.io/idLHjA
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19:20 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 077dac9 - Reverted to old lighting system
19:21 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 339605c - Minor changes
19:21 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 35f7485 - Tidy up
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20:22 -!- mode/#mcdevs [+o TkTech] by ChanServ
20:23 -!- mode/#mcdevs [-b *r04r*!*@*$##fix_your_connection] by TkTech
20:23 -!- mode/#mcdevs [-o TkTech] by ChanServ
20:23 <+SpaceManiac> glad I've fixed my Linux box to not be /that/ connection broken
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20:31 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: http://i.imgur.com/o1RsYCS.jpg :)
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21:02 < dx> "If chat is such a significant resource hog for your custom server, thread it"
21:02 < dx> this reasoning annoys me
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21:10 < dx> also dinnerbro said "We already had json handling" - can someone tell me where? if it was introduced recently i haven't heard of it
21:12 < Wulfspider> mmm I saw it somewhere
21:13 < Wulfspider> You were wanting the json feed dx?
21:13 < dx> Wulfspider: what json feed?
21:14 < Wulfspider> "We already had json handling" 
21:14 < Wulfspider> Thought that's what you were referring to
21:14 < dx> i'm asking what part of the minecraft code and/or protocol depends on a json library
21:14 <+ammar2> in reference to the new chat stuff using json
21:14 < Wulfspider> Ahh
21:15 < dx> dinnerbro justifies it saying we "already" have json somewhere, but where?
21:17 < dx> also, uhm... i know a lot of people hate NBT for being a made-up format but since bandwidth usage is an issue for a lot of admins, wouldn't it be more suitable than json? 
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21:19 < dx> i suspect that i'm ignorant regarding the weaknesses of the format (i just know how it works in theory, but never dealt directly with serialization myself), so if anyone can enlighten me i'd appreciate it
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21:21 < dx> IMO the main advantage of using json is that it's trivial to debug by looking at tcp streams, but if this is going to be in the middle of the minecraft protocol... that advantage is pointless
21:25 < Yoshi2> it looks like json is used to tell the client how to display specific parts of a chat message
21:25 <+ammar2> dx: its a pretty barebones format, its not that bad to handle its just annoying in that there's no need for yet another format
21:26 < dx> Yoshi2: except that json is wrapping every single chat message
21:27 < dx> ammar2: heh, then it's funny that now that the unneeded format was invented and is available in most minecraft-related code, dinnerbro chooses another format... which isn't needed... but wasn't invented either
21:28 <+ammar2> Yoshi2: Sending "<ammar2> Hello, world!" now turns into '{"translate": "chat.type.chat","using": ["ammar2","Hello, world!"]}'
21:32 < dx> i don't even know why those messages use translation templates
21:33 < dx> i mean.. the template is going to be "<%s> %s" for every language
21:33 < dx> i don't think translations are for that
21:33 <+clonejo> I guess, there is also a "%s" template
21:39 < dx> {"text": ["<", "ammar2", "> ", "Hello world!"]} is valid with this system
21:40 < dx> or if you don't care about parsing nick/message individually: {"text": ["<ammar2> Hello world!"]}
21:41 < Not-001> [PartyCraft] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/aWmHqg
21:41 < Not-001> [PartyCraft] SirCmpwn 51dceec - Improved REPL
21:41 < dx> just the string "<ammar2> Hello world!" with quotes includes is valid json, too, but would require the other side to expect json strings, not just json objects, and there's no way to support formatting then
21:41 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/kcviSg
21:41 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 4132736 - Added MinecraftClient.MoveTo
21:42 < dx> shut up sircmpwn you aren't even here
21:43 <+ammar2> dx: maybe we should use html for chat, that would be fun
21:45 <+clonejo> encode it in whitespace!
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21:48 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/2JDLiQ
21:48 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 38f03b7 - Cancel current client move operation before starting another
21:49 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/YOd-4g
21:49 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 2ab8fa6 - Reponse to cancellation request
21:51 < dx> ammar2: :D
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21:51 < dx> hmm
21:52 < dx> most irc networks block connections from open proxies, but do they block connections from people connected to webchat through open proxies?
21:52 < dx> i guess the webchat is in charge of blocking that
21:55 <+ammar2> dx: I do wonder how multiple colours with say {"text": ["<", "ammar2", "> ", "Hello world!"]} would work
21:55 < Kyle> dx: correct
21:55 < Kyle> dx: because of how the spoofing/webirc works, the ircd doesn't really know or care if the user is a webchat user or not
21:55 < Kyle> and once on the network, there are some cases where it's ultimately impossible to know
21:56 < Kyle> all checks proceed as normal
21:56 < Kyle> (freenode marks webchat users as such, but that doesn't need to be the case)
21:56 < dx> Kyle: you're saying the ircd will run the proxy check against the spoofed IP because it doesn't matter?
21:57 < Kyle> dx: It doesn't care/know it's "spoofed"
21:57 < Kyle> dx: https://github.com/atheme/charybdis/blob/master/extensions/m_webirc.c
21:57 < dx> lol i wasn't expecting that to be so short
21:57 < Kyle> dx: the webchat sends WEBIRC and the users real IP/Host, the ircd just goes "OK, " and once it actually gets to checking it uses the spoofed host.
21:58 < Kyle> which in this case is the real host :p
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21:58 < dx> Kyle: i want an API like that for minecraft proxies :D
21:58 < Kyle> dx: *shrug* heh
21:58 < dx> yeah, sorry for the sudden topic change
21:59 < dx> but i actually started writing a bukkit plugin that did very evil stuff to make the server think the client connected from a different IP
21:59 < Kyle> Just stating my knowledge on how it works for a majority of networks that use ratbox based ircds :p
21:59 < dx> as with everything i didn't get it to a useful state
22:00 <+ammar2> dx: but yeah, I couldn't find json anywhere
22:00 < dx> ammar2: damn dinnerbro trolling us
22:00 <+ammar2> you should ping him and find out :)
22:01 < dx> ammar2: i wonder if it's okay to pi-
22:01 < dx> lol
22:01 < Kyle> dx: in the end, 15:52 < dx> i guess the webchat is in charge of blocking that -- the ircd does it all as if it was a normal client, the webchat does nothing but translate the HTTP to IRC, :p
22:02 < dx> Kyle: yep, so i wasn't correct :P
22:03 < Kyle> dx: I hadn't caught that line before I said correct :p
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22:05 <+clonejo> hahahaha: https://github.com/clonejo/mc-erl/blob/master/src/mc_erl_client.erl#L64
22:05 < Calinou> lol erlang
22:05 <+clonejo> this line tells the client handler to wait 2 seconds before spawning the client after login -.-
22:06 < dx> oh, thanks for the translation
22:06 < dx> git blame says clonejo 2012-12-17
22:06 <+clonejo> yep
22:06 <+clonejo> shame on me
22:07 <+clonejo> spawning will probably be faster in the future
22:07 < dx> remember kids the ballmer peak is not a real thing
22:08 < Yoshi2> it isn't real? :(
22:15 < Morrolan> clonejo: You should make this configurable on a per-player basis, to be used by the server admin against annoying players. ;)
22:16 < Morrolan> "What, it takes you ten seconds to spawn? It's fine for me, must be your connection. :)"
22:16 < redu> :D
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22:25 < TkTech> dx: I don't think you're allowed to say that without some proof.
22:25 < TkTech> dx: Track 1000 devs and their commit activity while drinking.
22:27 < Kyle> http://www.commitlogsfromlastnight.com/
22:28 < dx> TkTech: hahaha, for a sec i thought you were talking about some of the nbt/json crap i said
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22:45 < AnotherOne> activity != quality
22:45 < AnotherOne> as we seen some time before
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--- Day changed sam. mai 25 2013
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01:01 <+Prf_Jakob> http://www.minecraft.org/ <-- well that page isn't confusing at all.
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01:14 <+clonejo> Morrolan: hehe
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02:16 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: One form to ICANN and they'll lose that domain.
02:18 < Not-001> [wiki] Edit by Aadnk to Entities -> http://tinyurl.com/o5vt2kh
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02:29 < zutto> TkTech: no, mojang would have to go to court before they could shut down that domain
02:29 < zutto> just one form isnt enough
02:30 < TkTech> You don't have to "go" to court, you just have to file at court.
02:30 < TkTech> http://www.icann.org/en/help/dndr/udrp
02:30 < zutto> yah, you need court ruling for them to remove it
02:30 < zutto> but thats pretty much all it takes
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04:16 < Seegee_> Hey
04:16 < Seegee_> Anyone here?
04:18 <+md_5> maybe
04:18 <+md_5> maybe not
04:19 < Seegee_> Are you the real md5 :o
04:19 <+md_5> yes
04:19 <+md_5> how is it going?
04:20 < Seegee_> Good, how about you?
04:20 < Seegee_> I am having trouble sending login packets.
04:20 < Seegee_> Do you think you would be able to help?
04:21  * SpaceManiac whistles
04:21 <+md_5> yeah, just ask about what exactly you need help with / show sample code
04:23 < Seegee_> well basically, I send the handshake packet, and then the login packet, but my server simply says "connection lost"
04:23 < Seegee_> Let me get my code for you
04:23 < Seegee_> Ill pastebin it
04:24 <+md_5> you cant send the login packet after the login packet
04:24 < Seegee_> What?
04:24 < Seegee_> http://pastebin.com/nA3SXYtC
04:24 <+md_5> there is a sequence to follow: http://www.wiki.vg/Protocol_Encryption
04:24 <+md_5> involves encryption and fancy stuff
04:24 <+md_5> are you a client or server?
04:25 < Seegee_> Client
04:25 <+md_5> what are you tryingto make? the code is a bit bleugh and will cause issues if it gets over 100 lines
04:25 < Seegee_> Oh, I am connecting to a non premium server for now, so I skipped the whole user encryption part.
04:25 < Seegee_> For now, im just trying to get a user in the server with the login packet :)
04:26 < Seegee_> Or atleast get it to give me "bad packet ID" or something besides lost connection.
04:26 <+md_5> Seegee_ send handshake followed by: {0xCD, 0x00}
04:26 <+md_5> should get you im
04:26 <+md_5> server will reply with login packet
04:27 < Seegee_> Just making sure, the handshake is 0x02 right...
04:27 <+md_5> yes
04:27 <+md_5> also using a Bytebuffer is probably a bit silly
04:27 <+md_5> also: tring messageToSend = username + ";" + "209.222.92.14" + ":" + "25565";
04:27 <+md_5> is not the 1.5.2 handshake packet
04:28 < Seegee_> How is the 1.5.2 packet formatted...
04:28 <+md_5> http://www.wiki.vg/Protocol#0x02
04:28 < Seegee_> I found that somewhere
04:28 < Seegee_> Ok, let me try that.
04:28 < Seegee_> out.writeByte(0x02); //Write the packet ID out.writeShort(messageToSend.length() + 1); //Prefix with length of string out.writeChars(messageToSend); //Write the string
04:28 < Seegee_> That is the right order to send it in right?
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04:32 < Seegee_> Should I even send it as one string.. Or should I send each "field" of the packet separate. 
04:34 <+md_5> Seegee_ here is some exampl code: http://paste.md-5.net/rekekuveho.java
04:35 < Seegee_> Ok, so I should send each value seperate.:)
04:35 < Seegee_> Thanks :). Ill look over that and get back to you.
04:41 < Seegee_> md_5, I tried what you said and I am still getting "lost connection"
04:41 < Seegee_> The client throws a Connection Reset error
04:41  * md_5 didnt test the code
04:42 < Seegee_> xD
04:42 < Seegee_> It seems to be sending it just as the protocol documentation says...
04:44 <+md_5> ah
04:44 <+md_5> writeString should be:         out.writeShort(s.length());
04:44 <+md_5> short not byte
04:44 <+md_5> and packetId should be :  int packetId = in.readUnsignedByte();
04:44 <+md_5> unsigned byte
04:46 < Seegee_> Yay :) 
04:46 < Seegee_> Its a start
04:46 < Seegee_> It says expecting login packet though, let me see what packet ID it is actually receiving back
04:49 <+md_5> Seegee_ fixed it: http://paste.md-5.net/yivivifija.java
04:53 < Seegee_> Oh my, it works :D
04:54 < Seegee_> Just wondering, what bytes are you skipping
04:54 < Seegee_> When you are getting the packetId?
04:55 <+md_5> http://www.wiki.vg/Protocol#0xFD
04:55 <+md_5> skipping the public key and verif token
04:55 <+md_5> since you arent using encryoption
04:59 < Seegee_> Ok :) Thanks for the explanation.
05:00 < Seegee_> One more quick question, why do I get Connection Reset or EFOException errors if I try to connect more than once quickly.
05:00 < Seegee_> EOF*
05:02 <+md_5> because by default the server has a connection throttle
05:02 <+md_5> one connection per IP every 4 seconsd
05:02 <+md_5> if you run bukkit/spigot you can edit that in bukkit.yml
05:02 < Seegee_> Ahh ok, thats what I figured.
05:09 < Seegee_> Ok, so If I were to go about keeping a player in the game, I would have to use some sort of keep alive packet correct?
05:10 <+md_5> yeah
05:10 <+md_5> just spam packet 0x00 and a random int
05:10 <+md_5> btw, if you want to make your client respond to stuff from the server
05:10 <+md_5> you have to implement every single MC packet. there are 81 of them
05:12 < Seegee_> Well for now I am just trying to get a player standing in the server :) From what I read here, It tells me the server will send me the keep alive packet and I would need to respond with the same packet: http://www.wiki.vg/Protocol#Keep_Alive_.280x00.29
05:12 < Seegee_> Is it the other way around?
05:15 <+md_5> Seegee_ well since you are not reading the servers packets, yes
05:15 <+md_5> just send your own keep alives
05:17 < Seegee_> Ok, that seems to work. thanks. How often would I need to send the keep alive packet?
05:26 <+md_5> Seegee_ every 30 secs should do
05:27 < Seegee_> Would it be a good idea to do it in a different thread?
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05:45 < Seegee_> Hey +md_5, which packet would I have to look into to add items to a users inventory from their "creative mode" inventory. (server is on creative mode) Im trying to get him to place a block :D I know that I can place the actual block with 0x0E, but do I need to get it in my inventory? Or can I place it directly from "creative mode"
05:46 <+md_5> read the wiki page, no idea
05:47 < Seegee_> Im currently looking at it, I cant seem to find anything about adding blocks to the inventory.
05:49 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/HMCkEg
05:49 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] aholmes 12c2633 - Fix server crash when sending packets to disconnected clients #155
05:49 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn ebaa56f - Merge pull request #156 from aholmes/master Fix issue #155
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06:11 < Seegee_> Hey guys, Im looking at the 0x07 Use Entity packet and one of the fields is "target". The example is "1805". How would I target a specific user?
06:12 < Seegee_> Or just the person closest
06:12 <+md_5> you would need to get their entity ID
06:12 <+md_5> and to do this you need to be able t read all 81 MC packets
06:12 <+md_5> this isnt a weekend project
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07:24 < AnotherOne> morning
07:24 < AnotherOne> no it isn't
07:25 < AnotherOne> it isn't weekend project at all:)
07:26 < AnotherOne> heh md_5 you scared a newcomer:)
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07:36 <+md_5> AnotherOne it was just my awesomenmess
07:36 <+md_5> <Seegee_> Are you the real md5 :o
07:36 < AnotherOne> you are famous lol
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07:38 <+md_5> AnotherOne am I really? did you know me....
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07:49 < AnotherOne> nope
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08:11 < AnotherOne> ByteBuffer buffer = ByteBuffer.allocate(20 + 6 + 1);
08:11 < AnotherOne> is it ok in c#?
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08:50 < dx> Seegee_ thought md_5 was the "real" hashing algorithm
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09:50 < dx> god damn it
09:50 < dx> never trust text boxes in websites. NEVER.
09:51 < dx> finally decided to finish writing the comment on the new chat packets gist in github, clicked preview to see if i got markdown right, and it decided to refresh the page
09:52 < dx> i don't feel like writing it all again...
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10:35 < dx> i do have some personal issues with large textboxes
10:35 < dx> i think most of the time i use those to write stuff that is tl;dr for most people
10:41 < dx> okay sent'd https://gist.github.com/Dinnerbone/5631634#comment-834845
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10:51 < AnotherOne> oh
10:51 < AnotherOne> yep, i remember that burning butthurt of losing big amount of text
10:52 < AnotherOne> dx
10:52 < AnotherOne> do you think you wont be just ignored?
10:53 < dx> you're such a nice person AnotherOne
10:53 < AnotherOne> im just a realist
10:53 < AnotherOne> nobody cares
10:54 < dx> a bunch of people in this channel would diagree with you
10:55 < dx> i write big amounts of text for everything btw
10:55 < AnotherOne> well, i will be glad if your text will change something
10:55 < dx> my facebook friends hate me for that
10:55 < AnotherOne> lol
10:55 < AnotherOne> oh yes
10:55 < AnotherOne> my code generator is almost done
10:55 < Yoshi2> hm, what text are you two talking about?
10:56 < AnotherOne> [11:40:53] <dx> okay sent'd https://gist.github.com/Dinnerbone/5631634#comment-834845
10:56 < AnotherOne> dx's butth... dislike of new chat
10:56 < dx> i'd kick you if i could
10:56 < dx> seriously, politeness first
10:56 < AnotherOne> oh sorry
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11:02 < AnotherOne> for exapmle: http://pastebin.com/WtZtfW7w turns to http://pastebin.com/vNpwELPd http://pastebin.com/ykFqDTY2
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11:12 < AnotherOne> hey people, i have an idea but cannot check it
11:13 < AnotherOne> http://www.wiki.vg/Protocol#Use_Bed_.280x11.29 , unknown field
11:13 < AnotherOne> what if is is 1 when Y is 128+&
11:13 < AnotherOne> ?
11:13 < AnotherOne> it is 1*
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11:29 < AnotherOne> dx: nice text
11:31 < dx> ..
11:32 < AnotherOne> what?
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14:33 < AnotherOne> http://www.wiki.vg/Protocol#Entity_Effect_.280x29.29
14:34 < AnotherOne> oh
14:34 < AnotherOne> it's ok
14:43 < AnotherOne> anyone here?
14:43 < Thinkofdeath> ?
14:44 <+md_5> just ask, dont ask to ask
14:44 < AnotherOne> i have an idea
14:45 < AnotherOne> it would be better if headers for packet description would be links to corresponding packets
14:45 <+md_5> ?
14:45 <+pdelvo> AnotherOne> [11:14:33] what if is is 1 when Y is 128+& the Y field is unsigned so it goes up to 255
14:46 <+md_5> you know you can: www.wiki.vg/Protocol#0x29
14:46 <+md_5> right
14:46 < AnotherOne> nope
14:46 < AnotherOne> fokk my english
14:47 < AnotherOne> for that packet i mean "Entity Effect (0x29)" to be link also
14:47 < AnotherOne> so if i scroll and want to show you some packet i don't have to go up and seek packet in list
14:49 < AnotherOne> oh i see it now
14:50 < AnotherOne> but anyway that would be better
14:50 < AnotherOne> should i change that?
14:57 < AnotherOne> http://www.wiki.vg/Protocol#Block_Change_.280x35.29
14:57 < AnotherOne> wtf bute metadata?
14:57 < AnotherOne> byte*
15:00 < Yoshi2> it is not the same metadata as the mob metadata, it's just a byte which provides some additional data depending on the block, usually it is used for directions, can't think of any other uses right now
15:00 <+pdelvo> different wood types e.g.
15:00 <+pdelvo> wool color
15:01 < AnotherOne> thank you
15:03 < AnotherOne> somebody said here "81 packets"
15:03 < AnotherOne> there are 79 in wiki
15:03 < AnotherOne> metadata and object data?
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15:04 <+pdelvo> some have different implementations if they are sent in different directions
15:04 <+pdelvo> Y and Stance fields are swapt
15:06 < AnotherOne> yes
15:06 < AnotherOne> still i implement 0x0D as a single packet:)
15:07 < AnotherOne> but later...
15:07 < AnotherOne> why swapt?
15:07 < AnotherOne> any use?
15:08 < Yoshi2> it's a mystery
15:08 < AnotherOne> shrouded with darkness of mojang
15:09 < AnotherOne> i hope today protocol work will be ended
15:10 < AnotherOne> im tired of this piece of some bad substance
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15:55 < AnotherOne> i have a burning butthurt
15:56 < redu> ouch
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15:56 < AnotherOne> BSOD took my packets description
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17:19 < Demos> hello
17:21 < Demos> what are yall working on? also, anyone interested in haskell?
17:25 < AnotherOne> hi
17:25 < AnotherOne> haskell is heresy:)
17:26 < Demos> I rather like it, sometimes annoying since some libraries are HARD to build on windows but I quite like it
17:27 < Demos> I mean sure the executables are a little bigger than C but my apps seem to tend to be under like 15mb, unless I use like Hint an then I get a 50mb exe with all og GHC linked in
17:32 < AnotherOne> why haskell?
17:33 <+pdelvo> Use what you want to use. we even have someone in here who is developing a minecraft pe server in php
17:33 < shoghicp> hey
17:33 < Demos> I wanted to learn haskell and I had an idea for a minecraft related tool, thus making a tool in haskell
17:34 <+pdelvo> shoghicp is our php guy
17:34 < Demos> Essentially I was going to use Haskell, C, or GO, and decided on haskell
17:34 < dav1d> shoghicp: :D
17:34 < shoghicp> :D
17:34 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±7] http://git.io/YGHgpA
17:34 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 945f348 - Block light now spreads across chunks (/dance) Added basic time command
17:34 < dav1d> Demos: then do it!
17:34 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 8927523 - Skylight now spreads across chunks Has a issues where once a relight is triggered (E.g block breaking) the chunk every connected chunk update its skylight maps due to them not existing yet. Might have to embed them into the save file
17:34 < shoghicp> currently implementing FUrnaces ;)
17:35 < dav1d> FU rnaces
17:36 < shoghicp> I had to do a talk about MCPE protocol and PocketMine yesterday xD
17:36 <+ammar2> a talk?
17:36 < shoghicp> In a programming contest
17:37 < shoghicp> Other people were asked theoretical questions
17:37 < dav1d> wtf
17:37 < shoghicp> They asked directly about it, so i had to describe Raknet & Minecraft PE protocol
17:37 < shoghicp> xD
17:38 < AnotherOne> raknet
17:38 < AnotherOne> what is raknet?
17:38 < shoghicp> AnotherOne: http://www.jenkinssoftware.com/
17:38 < shoghicp> the library that MCPE uses for multiplayer
17:39 < AnotherOne> oh
17:40 < AnotherOne> so... im going to try my new protocol implementation
17:40 < AnotherOne> good luck to me
17:41 < shoghicp> (got a job offer!)
17:42 <+pdelvo> is there a company developing server software in php? :D
17:42 < dav1d> shoghicp: this, this is for php?
17:42 < shoghicp> yeah, PHP
17:42 < shoghicp> (compiled with HipHop)
17:42  * dav1d goes to cry in a corner
17:43 < shoghicp> they even have a Mobile phone carrier
17:43 <+clonejo> Demos: What about Erlang?
17:43  * pdelvo comforts dav1d 
17:44 < Demos> PHP has too many $s for my taste, also too afraid to get rid of broken library functions so you have random, really_random, really_really_random, random_we_promice_this_time and so on
17:44 < AnotherOne> LOL
17:44 < Demos> well Erlang is great but I want to be able to compile to a static binary
17:44 < Yoshi2> PHP is all about the dollars
17:44 < dx> i got a job offer with PHP too and i wish i could refuse it
17:45 < AnotherOne> function random() {return 4; // chosen randomly }
17:45 < dx> shoghicp: teach me how to avoid suffering while coding php
17:45 < shoghicp> dx: don't use "==", use "==="
17:45 < Morrolan> Have php.net open in the background. :)
17:46 < AnotherOne> what is "==="?
17:46 < AnotherOne> really equals?
17:46 < dx> yep
17:46 < Morrolan> "Comparison without type conversion"
17:46 < AnotherOne> oh
17:46 < shoghicp> == equals, === really equals xD
17:46 <+pdelvo> mysql_escape_string and mysql_real_escape_string next step is mysql_really_really_escape_string? :D
17:46 < Demos> I was under the impression php.net kinda sucked, and sometimes you want type conversion
17:47 <+clonejo> array() == "foo" is true in PHP
17:47 < Demos> lol yeah
17:47 < shoghicp> array() === "foo" is false ;)
17:47 < Morrolan> There's not many occasions where you want implicit type conversions. :)
17:47 < Demos> again like javascript, I think the runtime should emit warnings about that
17:47 < Demos> I have run into some
17:47 < Demos> for instance enums with a toString and toValue
17:48 < AnotherOne> dynamical typing is a heresy
17:48 < Demos> this is in javascript so an enum is just a object
17:48 < dx> Demos: php.net sucked? it's the goddamn manual, i doubt there is anything better
17:48 < Demos> I dont know much about PHP other than that I dont want to deal with it
17:48 < Demos> :D
17:48 < dx> lol
17:48 < AnotherOne> nobody likes php
17:48 < dx> except shoghicp
17:49 < AnotherOne> still everyone uses it
17:49 < Morrolan> AnotherOne: Dynamical typing != implicit type conversions. :)
17:49 < Demos> yall read the double-clawed hammer rant?
17:49 < Morrolan> 'course, Demos. Who hasn't. ;)
17:49 < dx> ^
17:49 < Morrolan> It's a relatively, hmm, popular article, these days.
17:49 <+pdelvo> Catchable fatal error: Argument 1 passed to foo() must be an instance of string, string given, called in ....
17:50 < Morrolan> Haha. :P
17:50 <+pdelvo>   function foo(string $s) {}  foo("hello world");
17:50 < shoghicp> "Parse error: syntax error, unexpected T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM in Command line code on line 1"
17:50 < AnotherOne> wat?
17:51 < dx> pdelvo: when did they add that "string"?
17:51 <+pdelvo> dont know
17:51 < dx> i don't remember seeing it before
17:51 <+pdelvo> the error occurs in php 5
17:51 < Morrolan> Oh, yea, type hints. Joy. :)
17:51 < Demos> seriously call it a "scope resolution operator" for christ sake
17:53 <+pdelvo> Argument order: array_filter($input, $callback) versus array_map($callback, $input), strpos($haystack, $needle) versus array_search($needle, $haystack)
17:53 < dx> >It actually does mean double-colon - in Hebrew
17:53  * dx facepalms
17:53 < dx> i thought shoghicp wrote gibberish in that error message
17:53 <+pdelvo> About half the array functions actually start with array_. The others do not.
17:53 <+ammar2> http://reddit.com/r/lolphp
17:54 < Morrolan> Oh god, look what you've started, Demos. :<
17:54 < shoghicp> dx: It is a real one ;)
17:54 < Demos> I know, but english is the lingua franca of IT and programming so USE IT
17:54 < shoghicp> hint: T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM => ::
17:54 < dx> shoghicp: yeah, i googled already
17:56 < AnotherOne> ZOG controls PHP
17:56 < AnotherOne> oh noes
17:56 < Demos> I am a big fan of things like Go that are designed to be easy to parse and understand fully
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17:58 < Demos> Because an inconsistency between namespace separator '::' and ternary operator's ':' could not be solved, namespace were finally removed. -- PHP wiki, I know php has namespaces now but seriously that is backwards, the ternary operator is just ... pointless
17:59 -!- SuinDraw [~NiaTeppel@WiseOS/Founder/NiaTeppelin] has joined #mcdevs
17:59 <+pdelvo> lets stop with this pointless discussion we had a million times now
18:00 < Morrolan> You say that after having spent the last ten minutes telling the channel about various flaws of PHP?
18:01 < Demos> PHP bashing is so easy/fun
18:01 <+pdelvo> jeah Im sorry about that, but I cant change that now
18:03 < AnotherOne> use ruby
18:03 < AnotherOne> i heard there is a little esoteric syntax
18:03 < Demos> I hear ruby is kinda wacky as well, but not bad persay, very slow though
18:04 < dx> pdelvo: a million times? i thought that was java
18:04 < AnotherOne> dx: lol:D
18:04 <+pdelvo> a million times java and a million times php 
18:04 <+pdelvo> or maybe 2 million times java
18:04 < dx> yeah 2 million times java sounds better
18:05 < Demos> java was well intencioned but after a while we all realized that pure OO is not a good thing
18:05 < AnotherOne> hey! hey guys! PHP is the best web PL because it is the most wide-spread!
18:06 < AnotherOne> http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSDsbQlH98BcIXG4ahO80CapCQRqpTpgQrLnIEmZMSoJHuuRfEM
18:07 < Demos> *backend web PL, FTFY
18:07 <+pdelvo> come on. stop it
18:08 < dx> let's talk about more interesting stuff, like pbunny
18:09 < Morrolan> Demos: 'Slow' really depends on the context here. :)
18:09 < Demos> yeah I know, and slow does not mean bad
18:09 <+pdelvo> Im really curious why he has not developed his server in assembler. C is too slow I think
18:09  * Morrolan snrks
18:09 < Morrolan> What happened to that guy, anyway?
18:10 < dx> there was... an accident
18:10 < dx> i'm not comfortable talking about the topic
18:10 < dx> ;_;
18:10 <+ammar2> fbi arrested him and because he forgot to audit his hardware they convicted him
18:11 <+ammar2> never forget
18:11 <+pdelvo> :D
18:11 < Morrolan> Oh, seems he should have read the code which is stored on the BIOS' chip, eh.
18:12 <+pdelvo> It was credulous to think that the gouvernment has not put malware in his bios
18:12 < dx> heh the other day i was reading some slides of a presentation about BIOS reverse engineering
18:13 < Demos> wait what the fuck are we talking about, RMS?
18:13 < dx> (to add coreboot support to specific hardware)
18:13 < dx> Demos: pbunny
18:13 <+pdelvo> we are talking about a guy who said he has read the whole linux source code
18:13 <+pdelvo> 20h a day over months
18:14 < dx> even the modules that nobody ever compiles?
18:14 <+pdelvo> I think so. it would be too dangerous to not check them
18:14 < dx> snd_pcsp = best module ever, that no distro includes
18:15 < Morrolan> He also thinks, the only reason people use a language other than C is that they aren't proficient enough in C. :)
18:16 < Demos> To be fair C is quite a nice language
18:16 < dx> Demos: sure, but pbunny's C is not nice
18:16 <+pdelvo> and nobody who uses java should help him
18:17 <+pdelvo> One of my favorites:
18:17 <+pdelvo> <pbunny> Stormx2: java coder shouldn't teach people how to code C .
18:17 < AnotherOne> well he is right