15:14 < dav1d> good night md_5 
15:14 < nastyCreeper> i'm not pbunny, so you can't prove it unless you fake it well enough
15:14 < dx> i really don't know if i should laugh, help me Stormx2
15:15 < dav1d> y u no work ternary :(
15:15 < dav1d> ret == null ? default_ : ret
15:15 < dav1d> ^ java
15:15 < dx> dav1d: what the fuck does your /ignore have a scripting lang-
15:15 < dx> oh
15:15 < dav1d> dx: mh?
15:15 < dx> nevermind :P
15:15 < dav1d> actually I messed up the syntax
15:15 < dav1d> it's /ignore add :P
15:16 < Stormx2> nastyCreeper, I don't know why you bother hanging out in a channel where you find no value in anyone else's opinion
15:16 < nastyCreeper> Stormx2: i can ask you the same
15:16 < dx> what
15:16 < Stormx2> nastyCreeper, I value many peoples opinions in here
15:16 < nastyCreeper> so do i
15:16 < Stormx2> What are you talking about? This channel taught me minecraft.
15:16 < nastyCreeper> minecraft taught me this channel.
15:16 < Stormx2> That doesn't even make sense..
15:17 < nastyCreeper> Stormx2: think big endian
15:17 -!- Rudench [shnaw@irc.minecraft.org] has joined #mcdevs
15:17 < Stormx2> nastyCreeper, what?
15:17 < dx> damn that's a nice hostname
15:17 < Stormx2> yeah tis
15:18 < nastyCreeper> not minecraft.net though
15:18 < nastyCreeper> anybody can reg minecraft.* domain
15:18 < dx> anybody lol
15:18 < dx> it's nice because it's hard to get
15:18 < Stormx2> All the minecraft.x tlds went ages ago
15:18 < Stormx2> also, trademarks
15:19 < dav1d> fuck java
15:19 < dx> lol wait
15:19 < Stormx2> /ban dav1d alt of pbunny
15:19 < dx> http://www.minecraft.org/downloads.php#gameclient
15:19 < nastyCreeper> minecraft.org doesn't whois to mojang
15:19 < nastyCreeper> dx: anybody can run such site
15:19 < dav1d> Stormx2: no seariously
15:19 < dx> >What? Minecraft Game Client made by Triddin
15:19 < dx> maximum legitness
15:19 < nastyCreeper> i think Rudench is just a wannabe
15:20 < dx> nastyCreeper: duh
15:20 < Stormx2> dav1d, I have a lot of issues with Java too haha
15:20 < dx> nastyCreeper: it's obvious it's not mojang
15:20 < dav1d> Stormx2: https://gist.github.com/Dav1dde/fc4fc653e3b2bd8a867f
15:20 < dav1d> Stormx2: A extends Object declared in class MyList
15:20 < dav1d> line 35
15:20 < dav1d> wtf?
15:20 < nastyCreeper> "Version 3.0.2 works with Minecraft 0.30"
15:21 < nastyCreeper> Rudench: wtf
15:21 < dav1d> I mean the code isn't exactly the nicest, because I don't care
15:21 < nastyCreeper> what is minecraft 0.30 ?
15:21 < Thinkofdeath> nastyCreeper, Classic
15:21 < jast> I find the best way to hurt freeloader sites like that, chock full with ads and content made mainly by others, is to get as many people as possible to go there and reload the page as often as possible
15:21 <+sadimusi> did I miss something?
15:21 < dx> nastyCreeper: it's a version you can legally use right now
15:22 < jast> that should trigger abuse detection
15:22 < dx> sadimusi: welcome back!
15:22 < dx> jast: "abuse detection"?
15:22 < Stormx2> sadimusi, quite a lot of sadness from nastyCreeper
15:23 < dx> jast: oh you mean, to get the ad companies to check if the site is legit?
15:23  * sadimusi reads backlog
15:23 < nastyCreeper> sadimusi: i am being pbunny by joining after he was banned
15:23 < nastyCreeper> i'm sorry for that
15:24 < dx> okay guys you heard him, pbunny is sorry
15:24 <+sadimusi> nastyCreeper: you are being pbunny by acting like him
15:24 < nastyCreeper> ...
15:24 < dx> he will now promise to pretend to not be pbunny
15:24 < nastyCreeper> ok i'm sorry for acting like him
15:24 < dav1d>   lol
15:25 < dx> (btw, did i get the word order right?)
15:25 < dx> or is it "not to be"?
15:26 <+sadimusi> nastyCreeper: remember yesterday when you offered to leave the channel? now would be a good time
15:27 < dav1d> sadimusi: don't forget his other two nicks
15:27 <+sadimusi> what's the newest one?
15:28 < nastyCreeper> sadimusi: if i was pbunny, wouldn't i try to act as differently as i could from him?
15:28 < nastyCreeper> i think he is a smart person and could easily manage to hide his identity
15:28 < dx> lol
15:28 < dav1d> sadimusi: luntik13
15:28 < nastyCreeper> well, stupid people don't generally make servers from scratch
15:29 < dav1d> ^ lol
15:29 < nastyCreeper> i think IQ of at least 100 is required to make a server
15:29 < dx> lol
15:29 < nastyCreeper> and something like 95 to hide own identity from others
15:30 <+Prf_Jakob> nastyCreeper: actually, stupid people do, smart people join another project.
15:30  * dx would like to point out that intelligence is not a linear scale
15:30 < dav1d> Prf_Jakob: that hurts
15:30 -!- mode/#mcdevs [+o sadimusi] by ChanServ
15:30 <+Fador> =(
15:30 -!- mode/#mcdevs [+b *!*@static-71-174-73-11.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] by sadimusi
15:30 -!- nastyCreeper was kicked from #mcdevs by sadimusi [nastyCreeper]
15:30 < dx> rip.
15:30 -!- mode/#mcdevs [-o sadimusi] by sadimusi
15:31 <+Prf_Jakob> dav1d: its not like I didn't start me own project as well :p
15:31 <+Prf_Jakob> my*
15:31 < dav1d> Prf_Jakob: but it was the first out there, wasn't it?
15:31 < dx> the first out there is the mojang one :P
15:31 < jast> let's see how long it takes for more nicks to appear
15:31 <+Prf_Jakob> For D:ish yes, there where some other clients out there
15:31 < dav1d> dx: yeah but you can hardly join it
15:32 < dx> dav1d: hmod / bukkit did something close to that :D
15:32 < dav1d> hehe
15:32 -!- kittiepiggy [~meow@static.87.42.63.178.clients.your-server.de] has joined #mcdevs
15:32 < dx> nyan
15:33 < kittiepiggy> :3
15:33 <+Prf_Jakob> dav1d: to be fair, mineflayer would probably have been the best bet (at the time)
15:33 < dav1d> sadimusi: :(
15:33 <+Prf_Jakob> C++ core with JavaScript engine.
15:33 < dav1d> yeah but "C++"
15:33 <+Prf_Jakob> Qt based.
15:33 <+Prf_Jakob> Right
15:33 < dx> wasn't mineflayer a client?
15:33 <+Prf_Jakob> yes
15:33 < dav1d> dx: yeah
15:33 < dx> i thought we were talking about servers
15:33 < dx> but ok
15:33 < dav1d> dx: na about Prf_Jakobs client
15:34 < dx> oh
15:34 <+Prf_Jakob> dx: both me and dav1d have clients written in D.
15:34 < dav1d> and
15:34 < dav1d> "+Prf_Jakob | nastyCreeper: actually, stupid people do, smart people join another project."
15:34 < dav1d> :)
15:34 < dx> oh okay i get it
15:34 <+Prf_Jakob> dav1d: then again, if I would have been smart I would have not used D, because ugh D's toolchain :-/
15:34 < dav1d> yeah
15:34 < dx> that was just Prf_Jakob telling dav1d that he's stupid, nothing else
15:34 < dav1d> but D aas language <3
15:34 < dav1d> dx: :D
15:34 < dx> :D
15:35 < dx> but seriously alternate minecraft clients are a rare thing, and D projects are sort of rare too, why aren't you guys working together?
15:36 <+Prf_Jakob> dx: no, that was seriously, targeted at him. Tho to be fair I'm just as stupid.
15:36 < dx> (or at least i hope you steal code from each other)
15:36 <+Prf_Jakob> dx: where him != dav1d :)
15:37 < dx> Prf_Jakob: hah you confused me for a second
15:37 < dav1d> dx: well back in the time I started (I didn't even knew about his project the first month?) his project was D1 (the old "version" of D), also I made my client to learn OpenGL, but Prf_Jakob has already a complete engine, so nothing to do with opengl
15:37 < dav1d> dx: well stealing from Prf_Jakob is hard :P
15:37 < dx> :(
15:38 < dav1d> he is the no dependency, low language feauture guy, where I am the I don't care about dependencies too much and give me all the new feautures I can get guy
15:39 < dx> sounds like Prf_Jakob does more work and his work is easier to steal... also sounds like he wouldn't like that
15:39 <+Prf_Jakob> I don't mind
15:39 <+Prf_Jakob> The no dependency thing is because its a PITA to pack it all up and releases it.
15:40 <+Prf_Jakob> release it*
15:40 < dav1d> yeah
15:40 < dav1d> the next difference, his project is actually useable :P
15:40 <+Prf_Jakob> http://charged-miners.com/
15:40 <+Prf_Jakob> if you are wondering
15:40 <+Prf_Jakob> but its classic only
15:40 < dx> ooh
15:40 < dav1d> dx: I tried stealing from him, but meh, the code is too minimalistic for me :P
15:41 -!- Exio [~x@trekweb/user/nax] has quit [Quit: bbl]
15:41 < dx> "i didn't steal the code because it wasn't bloated enough"
15:41 < dav1d> haha
15:42 < dx> Prf_Jakob: the first thing i thought was "why restrict it to minecraft classic?"
15:43 < dx> implementing minecraft modern is complex for everybody but if you got that far you could just make a different game with your own server
15:43 < dav1d> dx: I think networking is implemented until beta 1.8, I was thinking of donating my networking code to it at some point, never did though
15:45 < dx> i never saw networking as a problem, but connecting to modern servers with classic features gives you a sort of disappointing feature set IMO
15:46 < dx> unavoidable at early stages and not bad if you have a lot of time to work on it, but...
15:46 < dav1d> oh I think that wouldn't be that much of a problem, charged looks like a pretty grown engine
15:46 < dav1d> huge part would be https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/tree/master/brala/dine/builder/vertices_
15:46 < dav1d> :P
15:46 < dav1d> implementing all these stinking blocks with the correct textures
15:46 < dx> ..lol
15:47 < dx> yeah i guess
15:47 < dav1d> most of that code is magic
15:47 < dav1d> magic and 1k lines of glue
15:47 < dav1d> (../builder.d)
15:47 <+Prf_Jakob> yeah there is a lot of magic in CM's builder.d as well
15:48 < dx> what's a builder.d?
15:49 < dav1d> dx: my builder.d places all the vertices inside a buffer, which then is uploaded to opengl
15:49 < dav1d> ready to be rendered
15:49 <+Prf_Jakob> ditto
15:49 < dx> heh
15:50 <+Prf_Jakob> https://github.com/Charged/Miners/blob/master/src/miners/builder/classic.d <-- here is the code for classic.
15:50 < dx> i was thinking it'd be something common in the .d language
15:50 -!- unnicked432 [~50e8f3d5@204.155.152.124] has joined #mcdevs
15:53 < dav1d> sadimusi: ...
15:54 < dav1d> lol
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15:55 < dav1d> We have to implement a queue for university, I wonder what they would say to my queue: https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/brala/utils/queue.d#L16
15:57 < dx> er..
15:57 < dx> dav1d: what do you expect?
15:57 -!- Paprikachu [~Paprikach@80.120.175.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:57 < dav1d> dx: would be interesting if they would even understand what's going on
15:58 < dx> dav1d: ...lol
15:58 < dav1d> our programming course is really really bad
15:58 < dx> okay i get it
15:58 < dav1d> they might be really good mathematicans
15:58 < dav1d> but it feels like they never programmed before
15:58 < dav1d> (at least in java)
15:58 < dx> i was reading the code and it seemed like a normal queue to me
15:59 < dx> *normal multithreaded queue
15:59 < dav1d> dx: yeah it is, with some (imo) nifty threading/lock techniques (definitly spelled incorrectly)
15:59 < dx> yes, it's spelt "definitely"
15:59 < dav1d> haha
16:00 < dx> also, unit tests as a language feature! that's cool
16:01 < dav1d> you can't do much with them, but they are extremly useful, never thought they would be so great
16:01 < dav1d> (if you've ever seen py.test etc.)
16:01 -!- kittiepiggy [~meow@static.87.42.63.178.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
16:01 < dx> cool mostly because they consider that, but i bet some people reinvent that wheel to have more flexibility or a different api
16:02 < dav1d> they covered my ass several times already
16:03 -!- Paprikachu [~Paprikach@80.120.175.113] has joined #mcdevs
16:03 <+Prf_Jakob> covered?
16:04 < dav1d> oh
16:04 < dav1d> this was definitly the wrong word
16:05 < dav1d> saved
16:05 < dx> definitely
16:05 < dav1d> gah again :(
16:05 < dx> :D
16:05 < dav1d> *definitely
16:05  * dav1d goes to write definitely 100 times
16:05 <+Prf_Jakob> haha
16:06 <+Prf_Jakob> German word for saved, is the same as the german word for cover(ed)?
16:06 < jast> no
16:06 < dx> actually 'covered' confused me, it sounded wrong and acceptable at the same time, but all i could think was that dav1d was butt naked several times
16:06 <+Prf_Jakob> hehe
16:06 < dav1d> no
16:07 < dx> dav1d: it's okay to be naked as long as it's not in public
16:07 < dav1d> I tend to pick the wrong english words
16:07 <+Prf_Jakob> In Swedish the word for unsure is the same as unsecure.
16:07 <+Prf_Jakob> tend to get that wrong :)
16:07 < dav1d> Prf_Jakob: same in german :)
16:07 < jast> insecure? :)
16:07 < jast> insecure is two things
16:07 < dx> google tells me that unsecure exists too
16:08 < jast> it has both meanings, too, sort of
16:08 < dx> http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/19653/insecure-or-unsecure-when-dealing-with-security
16:08 < dav1d> not in dict.cc
16:08 < dx> of course insecure is much more common
16:08 < dav1d> http://www.dict.cc/?s=unsecure
16:08 -!- Yoshi2 [~chatzilla@xdsl-78-35-215-53.netcologne.de] has joined #mcdevs
16:08 < jast> unsecured is a word, unsecure isn't
16:08 < jast> IMO
16:09 < dx> oh, good point, that link i posted doesn't mention "unsecure" either
16:09 < dx> it's unsecured
16:09 < jast> and insecure can mean both 'not sure' as well as 'not secured'
16:09 < jast> and a host of other things :)
16:10 < jast> it's a bit more specific than 'not sure', though
16:10 < dx> yeah, 'not sure' is 'lighter'
16:13 <+sadimusi> lol @ #minecraft 
16:13 < dx> i'm not there, what happened?
16:13 <+sadimusi> [4:10pm] nastyCreeper: hi, i just came to tell you sadimusi from #mcdevs is stupid piece of shit, bans people for nothing and then asks them for account details in pm
16:13 < dx> lol
16:14 < dx> i like how ambiguous 'account details' is
16:14 < jast> in freenode?
16:14 < dx> there's a #minecraft here
16:14 < jast> shouldn't that be ##minecraft, then? :}
16:15 < dx> hmm
16:15 < jast> (bless freenode's idea of sanity)
16:15 < dx> i think it's owned by the moderators of reddit's /r/minecraft, that's almost official :D
16:15 < jast> ... except not at all
16:15 < dx> yeah i know
16:17 -!- Not-003 [~notifico@198.199.82.216] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:17 <+pdelvo> <nastyCreeper> i won't be satisfied in this life until seeing sadimusi burning in hell for eternity
16:17 <+pdelvo> :o
16:17 < dx> i think he's a bit angry
16:18 < dx> TkTech sadimusi: btw, the chanserv +o list has a bunch of people who aren't here anymore, refill that please
16:18 < jast> so he wants to wait for eternity until he will be satisfied in this life
16:18 < jast> makes sense
16:19 -!- xy [xy@unaffiliated/xy] has joined #mcdevs
16:20 < dav1d> sadimusi: lol
16:20 < dav1d> jast: it should me ##minecraft but freenode staff is ok with #minecraft
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17:28 < Stormx2> <nastyCreeper> i think he is a smart person and could easily manage to hide his identity
17:29 < Stormx2> hahahahaha
17:29 < dav1d> Stormx2: well unnicked432 is the next pbunny
17:29 < AnotherOne> Effect position X     int     250     effect X multiplied by 8 
17:30 < AnotherOne> why multiplied by 8?
17:30 < AnotherOne> (from http://www.wiki.vg/Protocol#Named_Sound_Effect_.280x3E.29)
17:30 -!- KolakCC [~KolakCC@unaffiliated/kolakcc] has left #mcdevs []
17:31 <+pdelvo> to increase the precission
17:31 < Stormx2> AnotherOne, gives you granularity to 1/8th of a block
17:32 -!- SuinDraw [~NiaTeppel@WiseOS/Founder/NiaTeppelin] has joined #mcdevs
17:32 < AnotherOne> but why no double?
17:32 < dav1d> what if the position (x) is: int.max/8+1
17:32 -!- Paprikachu [~Paprikach@80.120.175.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:33 < AnotherOne> :D
17:33 < dav1d> AnotherOne: double would be twice the size, but float would work, but that is too accurate, you don't need it that accurate
17:34 -!- SuinDraw [~NiaTeppel@WiseOS/Founder/NiaTeppelin] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:34 < AnotherOne> damnit dav1d
17:34 < unnicked432> ?
17:34 < AnotherOne> you made me want to check what happens
17:34 < unnicked432> dav1d: ?
17:34 < dav1d> AnotherOne: mh?
17:34 < dav1d> AnotherOne: I made you check how a float works?
17:35 < AnotherOne> what if the position (x) is: int.max/8+1
17:35 < unnicked432> dav1d: what do you want from me?
17:35 < dav1d> AnotherOne: oh this will overflow into the negative
17:35 < Stormx2> unnicked432, I want your nuanced critique of java plzkthx
17:35 < AnotherOne> i know
17:35 < unnicked432> Stormx2: what is wrong with java?
17:35 < unnicked432> i think java is the best language available
17:36 < unnicked432> java gave birth to minecraft
17:36 < Stormx2> hahahahahaha
17:36 < dav1d> AnotherOne: oh I understand now :)
17:36 < Stormx2> too far in the other direction
17:36 < unnicked432> ?
17:36 < Stormx2> good effort though
17:36 < dav1d> AnotherOne: at a certain distance (away from 0,0) minecraft will fail anyways
17:36 < AnotherOne> farlands
17:36 < unnicked432> Stormx2: what language do you use?
17:36 < dav1d> sethbling made such a video once
17:36 < AnotherOne> lovely broken farlands
17:36 < dav1d> I think it was at 300k
17:36 < dav1d> or 30k, can't quite remember
17:37 < AnotherOne> i was there
17:37 < AnotherOne> on 1.5.2
17:37 < dav1d> legit?
17:37 < AnotherOne> no beautiful mountains
17:37 < AnotherOne> just dirt under the ocean
17:38 < AnotherOne> and local server dies in 30 seconds
17:39 -!- SuinDraw [~NiaTeppel@WiseOS/Founder/NiaTeppelin] has joined #mcdevs
17:39 < AnotherOne> it was at x 30 000 000
17:39 < AnotherOne> so let's count
17:40 < AnotherOne> int_max / 8 is 268 435 455,875
17:40 < AnotherOne> so we cant check what happens with sound
17:41 -!- redu [~redu@31.185.255.248] has joined #mcdevs
17:41 < AnotherOne> but what if i teleport to x 29 999 999 in nether and dive out with portal?
17:43 < Yoshi2> some very fun stuff could happen
17:43 < AnotherOne> server crash?
17:44 < Yoshi2> maybe, I don't know
17:44 < Thinkofdeath> Well just tping to 29,999,999 in the nether causes mc to freeze for me 
17:45 < jast> magick!
17:45 -!- dexter0 [~dexter0@c-24-23-138-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #mcdevs
17:46 < Thinkofdeath> java.lang.ArithmeticException: / by zero on tping to NaN though
17:49 < AnotherOne> can you help me with my problem? i am trying to login to some offline mode server and i get lots of nicknames and end of stream after receiving 0x0D
17:49 < AnotherOne> is it because i read too slow?
17:49 < dav1d> you can't read to slow
17:50 < AnotherOne> respond too slow?
17:50 < dav1d> no
17:50 < AnotherOne> so why end of stream?
17:50 < dav1d> well you can read too slow, but that has to be really slow then
17:51 < dav1d> AnotherOne: what does the minecraft server say?
17:51 < dx> what happened with the guy who wanted to connect to a server using putty?
17:51 < AnotherOne> i dont know
17:51 < jast> bah. putty is telnet for noobs.
17:51 < AnotherOne> it is not my server
17:51 < jast> real experts use socat
17:52 < dx> jast: using the word 'noob' for this use case is an understatement
17:52 < jast> or an ethernet cable, a power source, a few buttons and quick fingers
17:52 < Yoshi2> real men use IE6 to remote control their PCs from a toaster
17:52 < jast> if you use IE6 you can't possibly be real
17:53 < dx> butterflies suck
17:53 < jast> that hasn't been my experience. seems like their expertise focuses on flying
17:55 < dx> HOLY SHIT GUYS THERE'S A SNAPSHOT
17:56 -!- Calinou [~Calinou@unaffiliated/calinou] has joined #mcdevs
17:56 < AnotherOne> so what should i do?
17:56 < dx> i haven't messed with decompiled snapshots before, but i really want to take a look at the new internal chat system
17:57 < dav1d> AnotherOne: launch your own server, connect to it, look what it spits out
17:58 < AnotherOne> it's ok eith my own server
17:58 < AnotherOne> with*
17:58 < AnotherOne> do i need to launch bukkit server with couple of thousands of registered users?
18:01 < dx> doesn't sound practical but if you buy a few thousand accounts mojang would appreciate it
18:01 < dav1d> not bukkit vanilla
18:01 < dav1d> you should always test against vanilla
18:01 < AnotherOne> heh:)
18:01 < dav1d> that's the reference implementation not bukkit
18:01 < AnotherOne> i've tried another bukkit server
18:02 < AnotherOne> without that stupid transmission of all nicks
18:02 < AnotherOne> and it is ok
18:02 < AnotherOne> so that was some kind of timeout
18:02 < dav1d> yeah that's the reason why you should test against vanilla, then if everything works on vanilla think about bukkit and maybe some plugins
18:03 < dav1d> every plugin might change stuff
18:03 -!- unnicked432 [~50e8f3d5@204.155.152.124] has quit [Quit: .]
18:04 < AnotherOne> can you help me with send/receive architecture?
18:04 < AnotherOne> i have a thread that listens to socket and puts all data into the stream buffer
18:04 < AnotherOne> how can i determine there are enough data to process next message?
18:05 < dav1d> I would let the thread also spit out packets
18:05 < dav1d> *also parse the packets
18:05 < dav1d> AnotherOne: let the thread parse the packets
18:05 < dav1d> .read(n) will wait until n bytes are read from the stream
18:06 < AnotherOne> so should i combine reading and parsing?
18:06 < dav1d> yes
18:06 < dav1d> what language are you using?
18:06 < AnotherOne> C++
18:07 < dav1d> then C++ classes should work
18:07 < dav1d> (as packets)
18:07 < AnotherOne> they do
18:07 < dav1d> yeah :)
18:07 < AnotherOne> but i did want to separate reading from parsing
18:07 < dav1d> give them a virtual function which returns the packet id, then you can dynmaically cast
18:07 < dav1d> why?
18:07 < AnotherOne> fukken modularity
18:07 < dav1d> no
18:08 < dav1d> read a byte, dispatch the byte to the correct packet class, packet.read!()
18:08 < AnotherOne> so i can use parser library without binding to specified network library
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18:08 < dav1d> AnotherOne: this overcomplicates things
18:09 < dav1d> you're probably already using threads because you want to have your logic concurrently 
18:09 < dav1d> which means, you means you want only to react to complete packets not to a few bytes
18:10 < AnotherOne> yes
18:10 < dav1d> so parsing packets in the connection thread makes sense
18:10 < dav1d> if you use an intermediate buffer where you append the read data (assuming socket.read())
18:10 < dav1d> only makes things harder, instead of passing the socket object to the packet parsing function
18:11 < dav1d> which then can call socket.read(EXACT_AMOUNT_OF_BYTES_I_NEED)
18:11 < dav1d> since this will block, until exactly that amount of bytes was read
18:11 < AnotherOne> there is a little problem
18:11 < AnotherOne> i don't always know how many bytes do i need
18:12 <+pdelvo> you know how many you need for the next part of a packet
18:12 < AnotherOne> hmm
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18:12 < AnotherOne> i can check if stream buffer empty on every part read
18:12 < dav1d> AnotherOne: yeah, only read when you need it
18:13 < dav1d> AnotherOne: you also would need to check the size
18:13 < dav1d> well, that's basically implicit if size >= needed_size
18:13 < dav1d> but what if it doesn't match?
18:13 < dav1d> you need to wait
18:13 < dav1d> so you need some mechanism to wait, or call on the buffer again
18:14 < dav1d> but the socketobject itself works perfectly fine as such buffer already
18:14 < AnotherOne> yes
18:14 < dav1d> doing it like this works really good for me
18:15 < AnotherOne> lang?
18:15 < AnotherOne> c# iirc
18:15 < dav1d> no
18:15 < dav1d> D
18:15 <+pdelvo> one note above
18:16 < AnotherOne> oh yes
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18:17 < AnotherOne> and you told bad things about me when i told bad things about d
18:17 < dav1d> AnotherOne: well, I simply hate it if people talk about something they don't know about
18:17 < dav1d> and act as they would know everything
18:18 < dav1d> but yeah I probably overreacted, sorry 'bout that
18:18 < AnotherOne> np:)
18:19 < AnotherOne> what if i make class wrapper for socket?
18:20 < dav1d> makes things easier
18:20 < dav1d> I made myself a helper: read!int(socket) – read!Chunk(socket)
18:20 < AnotherOne> and by changing that class i can achieve my beloved modularity
18:20 < AnotherOne> what is ! in D?
18:21 < dav1d> which reads anything from a socket (where ! indicates D templates), if it's a primitive type then it calls, socket.read(_x_) if not type.read(socket)
18:21 < dav1d> AnotherOne: templates
18:21 < dav1d> https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/brala/network/util.d#L66
18:22 < dav1d> probably hard to read if you haven't seen D before
18:22 <+pdelvo> like generics?
18:22 < dav1d> ah yeah and it allows things like: read!(int, Chunk, short, byte, EntityMetadata)(socket)
18:22 < eddyb> no, generics are like templates :P
18:23 < dav1d> which is pretty neat
18:23 < eddyb> I'd like C++ <> better
18:23 < eddyb> read<int, Chunk, short, byte, EntityMetadata>(socket)
18:23 < dav1d> also: read!(int[])(socket)
18:23 < dav1d> for arrays a short is automatically read as length
18:23 < eddyb> ! and parens is too confusing
18:23 < dav1d> eddyb: ?
18:23 < dav1d> foo(T)(T x)
18:23 < dav1d> that's the definition
18:24 < dav1d> ! only indicates the compile time part
18:24 < eddyb> even worse, templates using function call syntax
18:24 < dav1d> oh I see your example now
18:24 < dav1d> eddyb: well, ever dealt with nested templates or more complex stuff?
18:25 < dav1d> gets unreadable pretty fast in C++
18:25 < dav1d> especially <<..> >
18:25 < eddyb> like F<5, G<A, B>> ?
18:25 < eddyb> << isn't valid
18:25 < dav1d> eddyb: wouldn't that error
18:25 < dav1d> either in VS or in g++ this errors
18:25 < eddyb> it's fine in C++11 and a bit earlier, too
18:25 < dx> uh, guys, is it just me or b.wiki.vg lets you diff against 1.5.2 but that version isn't an option in the dropdowns?
18:25 < eddyb> it only errors if the compiler is using crappy old parsers
18:25 < dav1d> ah so they changed that
18:26 < dav1d> good to hear
18:26 < eddyb> it's a compiler error, not part of the specs :P
18:26 < dav1d> eddyb: https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/brala/network/packets/util.d#L24 :D
18:26 < dav1d> yes I overdid it there
18:26 < dav1d> but I'd like to see the C++ solution :P
18:26 < AnotherOne> hey people, what about swapping byteorder on generic size object?
18:27 < eddyb> no
18:27 < AnotherOne> other that std::reverse
18:27 < dav1d> AnotherOne: htons and friends?
18:27 < eddyb> "swapping byteorder" is only done for u16, u32 and u64
18:27 < AnotherOne> and for floats and doubles
18:28 < eddyb> AnotherOne: those are u32 and u64 in memory
18:28 < AnotherOne> i know
18:28 < AnotherOne> that sweet cast magic
18:28 < dav1d> so it makes no difference :)
18:28 < eddyb> so just reinterpret_cast or pointer cast in C
18:29 < eddyb> dav1d: like, >> requires some context in the parser and a separate tokenizer (like in the old lex/yacc parsers) makes it very hard
18:30 < eddyb> wtf I'm not seeing the semantics in that get_packets_mixin
18:30 < eddyb> Rust makes more sense with this stuff
18:30 < dav1d> eddyb: haha yeah
18:30 < dav1d> as I said, I overdid it
18:31 < dav1d> basically puts every Packet class it finds inside a tuple as type
18:31 < dav1d> parse_packet takes an arbitrary id and returns a parsed packet
18:31 < dav1d> (id has to be known at compile time)
18:32 < dav1d> but that is not a big deal, you can generate switch..case at compiletime, too
18:32 < eddyb> does D have ADTs?
18:32 < dav1d> so my parsing is then done in ~6 lines
18:32 < dav1d> eddyb: adt?
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18:33 < eddyb> dav1d: like tagged unions, a central data structure in Haskell and friends
18:33 < eddyb> Rust has them in a form of parametrized enums
18:33 < dav1d> eddyb: tagged union, kinda
18:33 < dav1d> sbut library solutions
18:34 < eddyb> no, this is syntax-level
18:34 < dav1d> http://dlang.org/phobos/std_variant.html#.Algebraic and http://www.deadalnix.me/2013/05/10/type-safe-tagged-union-in-d-programming-language/
18:34 < eddyb> enum Option<T> { Something(T), None }; // something like that
18:34 < dav1d> ah yeah
18:34 < dav1d> enum Option : T { }
18:34 < eddyb> "Currently, Algebraic does not allow recursive data types. They will be allowed in a future iteration of the implementation." pffft :P
18:34 < dav1d> enum Option : T { X = T(blub) }
18:35 < eddyb> no
18:35 < eddyb> that's almost like C++11, ADTs are different
18:35 < dav1d> then I don't understand 
18:35 < dav1d> enum or union?
18:36 < eddyb> enum Tree<T> {Node(Tree, Tree), Leaf(T)}
18:36 < AnotherOne> hey dav1d
18:36 < AnotherOne> why D?
18:36 < eddyb> dav1d: an enum in Rust is an ADT if you have parameters to the variants
18:37 < dav1d> AnotherOne: I find C++ a pain and D less pain, also a GC (yeah I am a sissy), for performance critical code I can still use malloc and friends though. Coding in D is more productive and less pain (personal experience)
18:37 < dav1d> eddyb: any examples?
18:37 < eddyb> the one I just gave up D:?
18:37 < eddyb> that's a binary tree
18:37 < jast> Rust is _really_ interesting
18:37 < dav1d> eddyb: I skipped that :P
18:37 < AnotherOne> less pain you say
18:37 < dav1d> eddyb: so basically a struct?
18:37 < eddyb> maybe I need a None variant, just in case
18:38 < AnotherOne> are you about butthurt?;)
18:38 < eddyb> dav1d: tagged union
18:38 < dav1d> eddyb: I think we think of different things when we hear tagged union
18:39 < dav1d> AnotherOne: well if you enjoy coding in C++, go ahead, I find D an improvement in every way (except stability, which has improved quite a lot though)
18:39 < eddyb> struct { int tag; union {struct variantA{int;float;}; struct variantB{double;double;};};};
18:39 < eddyb> but in C/C++ you have to manually manage it
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18:40 < dav1d> eddyb: well in D I can also put an arbitrary type in a union?
18:40 < dav1d> also http://www.deadalnix.me/2013/05/10/type-safe-tagged-union-in-d-programming-language/
18:40 < dav1d> ^ what I understand as tagged union
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18:40 < eddyb> yes
18:41 < eddyb> except much easier to manage
18:41 < dav1d> eddyb: you can dynamically build that at compile time (as shown in the example) but it's not builtin into the language
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18:41 < eddyb> even in D it's heavier than in Rust
18:42 < AnotherOne> oh damn
18:42 < AnotherOne> now everyone tries to make a language better than C++
18:42 < AnotherOne> but...
18:42 < AnotherOne> we have java
18:42 < dav1d> eddyb: yes? of course it's a library thing and not language supported
18:42 < eddyb> java isn't the best thing either
18:42 < AnotherOne> and c#
18:42 < eddyb> dav1d: in Rust they're compile-time safe
18:43 < AnotherOne> but i like c#
18:43 < AnotherOne> though it is a bastard too
18:43 < dav1d> then use it?
18:43 < dav1d> use what ever you prefer most
18:43 < AnotherOne> is mono ok now?
18:43 < dav1d> just don't think the language you use is the best, because it probably isn't (depends on the job)
18:43 < AnotherOne> what about linux c#?
18:43 < dav1d> mono is amazing, from what I've heared
18:43 < AnotherOne> i don't
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18:44 < AnotherOne> there is a russian expression, literally "golden middle", idk is there english variant
18:44 < eddyb> dav1d: something like this: def depthFirst<T>(tree : Tree<T>, fn : (Tree<T>) -> void)  -> void {match(tree) {Leaf(x) => fn(x); Node(left, right) => depthFirst(left), depthFirst(right)}}
18:45 <+pdelvo> the most parts are good, but there are some I dont like about mono
18:45 < eddyb> dav1d: there's zero chance of pointer-related failures
18:45 < AnotherOne> and it is c++: not too low-level and not too high-level
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18:45 <+pdelvo> there are some methods which are present in mono, but with a slightly different signature, so you have to compile 2 times :(
18:45 < dav1d> eddyb: type can't be known at compiletime
18:46 < dav1d> it has to be dispatched at runtime
18:46 < eddyb> the tag?
18:46 < dav1d> otherwise you wouldn't need a union
18:46 < eddyb> yepp, but Rust enforces safe ADT-using code
18:46 < eddyb> it doesn't have nullable pointers, so it has an Option<T> ADT for that
18:47 < eddyb> you will never be able to use a "null" Option as a pointer
18:47 < dav1d> at runtime enforced?
18:47 < eddyb> nope
18:47 < dav1d> well then I can still null it
18:48 < eddyb> that's the best part, you can't
18:48 < dav1d> there are no casts?
18:48 < dav1d> there is always a way to break the typesystem :P
18:48 < eddyb> it's a safe language, so no
18:48 < dav1d> yeah well then probably not
18:48 < eddyb> only safe inheritance casts
18:48 < dav1d> (tbh I like beeing able to null instances)
18:49 < dav1d> eddyb: they can fail, too
18:49 < dav1d> downcasting?
18:49 < eddyb> (and integer/float value casts, of course)
18:49 < eddyb> dav1d: can't remember the details, but anything that can break safety just doesn't exist
18:49 < dav1d> eddyb: downcasts can fail
18:50 < eddyb> then it's either not in Rust, it returns an Option or it has an explicit failure detecting mechanism
18:50 < dav1d> C inherits from B, B inherits from A and D inherits from A, now I want to downcast A, to C or to D?
18:50 < dav1d> eddyb: ^
18:50 <+clonejo> eddyb: Does Rust have supervision trees?
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18:50 < eddyb> clonejo: is it wrong that I haven never heard of that concept before?
18:51 < dav1d> eddyb: I think that's an erlang thing with its processes
18:51 <+clonejo> eddyb: no, it's an Erlang feature
18:51 < eddyb> dav1d: C to D is just compile-time invalid
18:51 < dav1d> eddyb: no
18:52 < eddyb> since C doesn't inherit from D and D doesn't inherit from C
18:52 <+clonejo> Supervision trees are the things that make Erlang software hard to crash completely.
18:52 < dav1d> eddyb: I have an instance of A, but I don't know if it is an instance of C or D
18:52 < eddyb> dav1d: ah, that's better
18:52 < dav1d> eddyb: how can the compiler know this, it can't
18:52 < eddyb> as I said, pick one of those tree options
18:52 < eddyb> let me search for it, actually
18:52 < dav1d> eddyb: he, if it allows casting, then the result will be null, which breaks your non-nullable types
18:53 < eddyb> "result will be null" that's impossible
18:53 < dav1d> except you don't allow the result assigned to a non-nullable
18:53 < dav1d> eddyb: of course
18:53 < dav1d> eddyb: what would you expect a failing downcast to return?
18:53 < eddyb> as I said, it either returns a Option or you have to handle an explicit fail case (or it's like an if statement)
18:53 < dav1d> other than invalid state
18:54 < eddyb> with an Option you'd still have to handle the failure cast, but it's more generic
18:55 < dav1d> well tbh I don't really care too much
18:55 < eddyb> so far I see you can cast to traits, but that couldn't fail anyways
18:55 < dav1d> btw I think I've seen that tagged unions thing on reddit
18:55 < eddyb> oh, I know where I've seen !() before
18:55 < eddyb> macros in Rust
18:58 < eddyb> "No, casts from an interface to a particular type (I call them downcasts, but you seem to call them upcasts) are not possible in Rust. The article mentions this in that Rust has no equivalent of Go's type assertion. You need to use an 'enum' type in Rust if you want that sort of functionality."
18:58 < eddyb> dav1d: I hope that answers your question :)
18:59 < dav1d> interesting approach
18:59 < eddyb> the enum type is one of those ADTs
18:59 < dav1d> so you can only cast with a union
18:59 < dav1d> which is supposed to be safe
18:59 < dav1d> (and probably is)
19:00 < eddyb> I was thinking of packet parsing, and with some macros, it could be nice in Rust. sadly there's no variadic generics yet, those could be helpful at some point
19:01 < eddyb> enum Packet { Packet00(Packet00_data), ...} (just to get named fields)
19:02 < eddyb> anyway, I wanted to work on something completely different, got stuck in IRC land again :(
19:02 < dav1d> same here
19:02 < dav1d> xD
19:03 < AnotherOne> lol
19:03 < AnotherOne> same, fukken same
19:03 < AnotherOne> but i'm trying to make that sockwt wrapper
19:03 < eddyb> AnotherOne: and to answer your question, C++ is pretty good, but only if you're good at it
19:03 < AnotherOne> sure
19:04 < eddyb> I've written a class at some point that made it trivial to work with JS values (from v8) in bindings code
19:04 < AnotherOne> but it does not mean kiddies must have access to programming
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19:04 < eddyb> AnotherOne: it's quite the opposite
19:05 < eddyb> with some polishing, Rust is better to teach good coding styles and concepts
19:05 < eddyb> should I mention that I don't think I've ever seen a program written by one of my classmates for a CS problem, that isn't trivially exploitable?
19:06 < dav1d> university teaches you that every input is sane
19:06 < dav1d> except the few cases they state what error you have to expect
19:08 < eddyb> good thing I know how to break a program *before* going to uni :P
19:09 < eddyb> and the project I'm working on (if I ever finish it... wasting time like this isn't going to help at all :() could make large code bases (or even large obscure binaries) easier to scan for vulns
19:09 < AnotherOne> looks like i'm falling into sin of OOP
19:10 < eddyb> OOP isn't a sin as long as you don't end up writing Java code in C++
19:10 < AnotherOne> :D
19:10 < AnotherOne> too many OOP is a sin
19:11 < eddyb> there's this GPS app someone asked to RE, and I'm seeing statically allocated factories (with strings telling me what they're for) to build classes, or other factories
19:11 < eddyb> not sure what the hell they were thinking
19:12 < AnotherOne> thank you padre
19:12 < AnotherOne> i'm feeling better
19:19 -!- luntik13 [~Sashka@m77-219-23-197.cust.tele2.lv] has joined #mcdevs
19:19 < luntik13> hai
19:21 < luntik13> why is minecraft coded in java?
19:21 < AnotherOne> hi
19:21 < AnotherOne> because Notch
19:21 < luntik13> why is Notch?
19:21 <+clonejo> luntik13: Ask his parents
19:22 < luntik13> lol
19:22 < luntik13> btw
19:22 < dav1d> eddyb: enjoy university
19:22 < luntik13> any way to speak with notch directly?
19:22 < dav1d> one task: make a buttload (~10) factory classes which then return some obscure instance of a class which only parses cmd-line and then calls another class
19:23 < eddyb> mail?
19:23 < eddyb> dav1d: nope.avi
19:23 < dav1d> sadimusi: yay
19:23 < dav1d> eddyb: unfortunatly yes
19:25 <+clonejo> luntik13: Do you think you talking to him would change anything?
19:26 < luntik13> clonejo: i will make him smarter
19:26 < eddyb> notch doesn't even work on minecraft anymore
19:26 < eddyb> and he hasn't for almost two years now, I think
19:26 < dav1d> back to math, stinkin' test tomorrow
19:27 < eddyb> luntik13: have you been in #minecraft this week or the one before? I remember your name :/
19:27 < eddyb> what am I talking, let me grep logs
19:27 < luntik13> eddyb: i was here
19:28 < luntik13> also Luntik is cartoon character
19:29 < eddyb> hmm, you're not in my logs, I must have seen things
19:29 < redu> that name and 13 go together very well then
19:29 < redu> :D
19:31 < luntik13> well i'm 13 now
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19:31 < AnotherOne> http://img15.nnm.ru/0/d/e/6/e/aaf99b178b3b467af0dd4018ac4.jpg
19:31 < redu> .ru :| too scary
19:32 < AnotherOne> heh
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19:36 < dav1d> there goes the next pbunny instance, only one left
19:37 < eddyb> dav1d: call the destructors!
19:37 < dav1d> eddyb: ?
19:37 < dav1d> oh
19:37 < dav1d> :D
19:37 < dav1d> just helped someone in #d with destructors
19:37 < dav1d> I was confused for a second
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20:13 < AnotherOne> if i get end of stream in process of reading, should i close the connection?
20:14 < eddyb> how low-level are you?
20:14 < eddyb> and what does end-of-stream mean in the context?
20:14 < AnotherOne> making a socket wrapper
20:14 < AnotherOne> it means SDLNet_TCP_Recv() returns -1
20:14 < AnotherOne> http://sdl.beuc.net/sdl.wiki/SDLNet_TCP_Recv
20:14 < eddyb> there's at least 5 different ways a TCP connection could end
20:15 < eddyb> lol, using SDL
20:15 < AnotherOne> yes:)
20:15 < AnotherOne> is it bad?
20:15 < eddyb> AnotherOne: if you don't need multimedia stuff from SDL, you could find libuv a bit better
20:15 < eddyb> IIRC boost also has async networking
20:16 < AnotherOne> i think i do need multimedia stuff
20:16 < AnotherOne> but later
20:16 < AnotherOne> i can't boost
20:16 < AnotherOne> too complicated
20:19 < eddyb> https://github.com/joyent/node/blob/master/src/tcp_wrap.h https://github.com/joyent/node/blob/master/src/tcp_wrap.cc it's a bit clunky, but Ctrl+F uv_
20:20 < eddyb> AnotherOne: nevermind that mess, http://nikhilm.github.io/uvbook/networking.html#tcp
20:20 < eddyb> http://nikhilm.github.io/uvbook/networking.html#client
20:23 < AnotherOne> if something comes to my socket and i dont read it, does it stay there?
20:23 < eddyb> AnotherOne: also has timers, fs, threads, processes, and you can even mix its event loop with others http://nikhilm.github.io/uvbook/
20:24 < eddyb> AnotherOne: I suggest you use async IO, preferably abusing C++11 features :P
20:24 < eddyb> (yes, it's "there" until you read it, but it's just easier to get a notification when data comes in)
20:26 < eddyb> AnotherOne: TCP connections are streams: http://nikhilm.github.io/uvbook/filesystem.html#buffers-and-streams
20:27 < AnotherOne> nice
20:28 < eddyb> https://github.com/d5/node.native OMG I WANTED TO DO THIS
20:28 < eddyb> AnotherOne: just use that ^^ it will be the most awesome thing you've done in C++
20:28 < AnotherOne> i'll try:)
20:29 < AnotherOne> but what if i just combine reading from socket and parsing?
20:29 < eddyb> I wanted to have something like that as part of an OS API
20:29 < AnotherOne> no buffers
20:29 < eddyb> AnotherOne: you should parse as part of the read callback (so when you get data)
20:30 < eddyb> you have to at least store a partial packet in case you didn't get all the data
20:31 < eddyb> hmm, it doesn't seem like he updated it recently :/
20:31 < AnotherOne> what if i read a single byte for packet id and then call functions that read corresponding fields and deserialize them?
20:32 < AnotherOne> and again and again in infinite loop
20:32 < eddyb> it doesn't work that way
20:32 < AnotherOne> and no problems with partial data
20:32 < AnotherOne> why?
20:32 < eddyb> because syscalls are costly
20:32 < eddyb> and you'd also put stress on the kernel-level networking stack
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20:33 < eddyb> "problems with partial data" - if only C++ had generators/coroutines :P
20:33 < Calinou> SDL is awesome eddyb 
20:33 < eddyb> Calinou: I know SDL in-depth, but it's not that great here
20:33 < Calinou> it is
20:33 < Calinou> other APIs are a mess that aren't crossplatform
20:34 < AnotherOne> so should i read large blocks and process on callback?
20:34 < eddyb> libuv has been written to be the crossplatform
20:34 < AnotherOne> and those nasty buffers
20:34 < AnotherOne> fuck
20:34 < eddyb> AnotherOne: seriously, buffer management is like 5 lines
20:34 < AnotherOne> orly?
20:34 < eddyb> yes
20:35 < eddyb> you should parse in a loop, until it fails, save the extra data, and next time you get new data, prepend the old extra data to it
20:35 < AnotherOne> so std::stringstream is bad buffer?
20:36 < eddyb> it's not a buffer, it's a string stream
20:36 < eddyb> i.e. a string you can stream to/from
20:37 < eddyb> vector maybe, but it's too element-oriented
20:39 < eddyb> I should pick up node.native, clean it up and update it
20:41 < eddyb> AnotherOne: so you can have a static byte buffer where you do this: read_start<max_alloc_size>(callback);
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20:41 < eddyb> if your static buffer is twice max_alloc_size, then it can fit old data and new data. you just have to be careful so you don't end up with packets not fitting
20:42 < eddyb> then again, just find a good buffer class
20:43 < eddyb> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1874354/a-dynamic-buffer-type-in-c
20:44 < eddyb> AnotherOne: then again, std::vector<u8> should work quite well
20:45 < eddyb> http://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/container/vector
20:46 < eddyb> with memmove and resize, you should be able to do some easy buffer management
20:49 < AnotherOne> vector... prepending... isn't it a hardcode memory rape?
20:50 < AnotherOne> but yes... a little rape is better than my current version of client
20:51 < eddyb> it's easier to copy memory than have an extra check for every access (which would be the other way to do this)
20:51 < AnotherOne> yep...
20:51 < AnotherOne> fuck
20:51 < dav1d> SDL is bad
20:51 < dav1d> well api-wise
20:52 < eddyb> https://github.com/deoxxa/libmcnet
20:52 < AnotherOne> i have to remake all message classes again
20:52 < eddyb> ^^not updated, but it has an awesome packet description system
20:52 < AnotherOne> nononononono
20:52 < eddyb> based on my older JS implementation
20:53 < AnotherOne> fukk macros
20:53 < eddyb> AnotherOne: I suggest trying to work with something like this: https://github.com/deoxxa/libmcnet/blob/master/include/mcnet/packets.h
20:53 < eddyb> macros are the only way to do this in a sane way, in C/C++
20:54 < eddyb> deoxxa had C code, so that packet list generates structs and pack/unpack code
20:54 < AnotherOne> do you want me to have fun debug time?:)
20:54 < eddyb> this is much better than anything you could come up with
20:55 < eddyb> but you can have a static function in each packet class, and then have a vector of those functions, so it's pretty much a "jump table"
20:56 < eddyb> or have a switch statement, like him, but with 0 packet-specific code, just calling the packet static function, which would get inlined
20:56 < AnotherOne> http://pastebin.com/Zi6CcKpf
20:56 < AnotherOne> i have classes like this
20:56 < eddyb> in a couple of hours I could come up with a nice C++ version for this and maybe even update the packet definitions for the latest versions of MC
20:57 < eddyb> haha
20:57 < eddyb> AnotherOne: that's just not going to work for you
20:57 < AnotherOne> why?
20:57 < eddyb> wtf, one file per packet? that's even worse, about hundred files instead of a small one
20:59 < AnotherOne> if something goes wrong, you will pay for your laze with fun debug time:)
21:00 < eddyb> you're afraid of debugging *as if* you're going to have to do debugging
21:00 < eddyb> my solution is hundreds of times smaller than yours
21:00 < eddyb> which means *at least* hundreds of times easier to debug
21:01 < AnotherOne> lol
21:01 < AnotherOne> nope
21:01 < dav1d> also it's a lot to type
21:01 < dav1d> I did it
21:01 < dav1d> and I regret it
21:01 < dav1d> the file had in the end 3.5k lines
21:01 < dav1d> only the server packets
21:01 < AnotherOne> i made code generator:)
21:01 < dav1d> https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/brala/network/packets/server.d
21:01 < dav1d> 274 lines and easy to maintain :)
21:02 < dav1d> I wanted to change all these classes to structs...
21:04 -!- Yoshi2| [~chatzilla@xdsl-87-79-218-85.netcologne.de] has joined #mcdevs
21:04 -!- Yoshi2 [~chatzilla@xdsl-78-35-222-43.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
21:04 < eddyb> AnotherOne: what code generator?
21:04 -!- Yoshi2| is now known as Yoshi2
21:04 < AnotherOne> that generates classes for packets
21:04 < eddyb> derp, I know what it would do
21:04 < eddyb> but how did you do it?
21:05 <+pdelvo> Im using runtime code generation to reduce meta programming, but my packet classes are to complex to generate
21:05 < eddyb> AnotherOne: https://gist.github.com/eddyb/9be5aa242e05ac7d609e and it's still bigger than PACKET(06, INT(x) INT(y) INT(z)), and it has no pack/unpack code
21:05 < eddyb> pdelvo: what language?
21:05 <+pdelvo> C#
21:05 < AnotherOne> http://pastebin.com/zLf2V9kJ
21:06 < eddyb> so what does that do? output C++ code?
21:06 <+pdelvo> https://github.com/pdelvo/Pdelvo.Minecraft/blob/master/Pdelvo.Minecraft.Protocol/PacketFactory.cs#L118 it is more or less code generation in il
21:06 < AnotherOne> yes
21:06 < eddyb> AnotherOne: you could have the same thing, in one short line, and without writing the file to disk
21:07 < dav1d> pdelvo: +1 for german comments
21:07 <+pdelvo> oh i got german comments on that... 
21:07 < eddyb> and if you really want codegen, I could repurpose my old mcsmp node.js lib to output C++ code
21:07 < eddyb> using C++ code to gen C++ source code is quite bad in my books
21:08 < AnotherOne> why?
21:08 < eddyb> brb, food, please ponder on metaprogramming
21:08 < AnotherOne> wait
21:08 < AnotherOne> show me please where PACKET is defined
21:08 < eddyb> that's the beauty
21:08 < eddyb> it's not :)
21:08 < eddyb> you define PACKET to whatever you want
21:08 < AnotherOne> oh i see
21:08 < eddyb> also the type macros
21:09 < eddyb> here is the struct generation: https://github.com/deoxxa/libmcnet/blob/master/include/mcnet/structs.h
21:09 -!- Yoshi2| [~chatzilla@xdsl-78-35-227-236.netcologne.de] has joined #mcdevs
21:09 < eddyb> you can see that define's and undef's are most of the files
21:10 -!- Yoshi2 [~chatzilla@xdsl-87-79-218-85.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
21:10 < AnotherOne> damn
21:10 -!- Yoshi2| is now known as Yoshi2
21:10 < eddyb> now really food, this talk and the lack of real work makes me hungry
21:10 < eddyb> read code https://github.com/deoxxa/libmcnet/blob/master/src/parser.c
21:10 < AnotherOne> i dont get that magic
21:13 < AnotherOne> damnit
21:13 < AnotherOne> it is better to have tons of code
21:14 -!- Yoshi2| [~chatzilla@xdsl-81-173-163-49.netcologne.de] has joined #mcdevs
21:14 < AnotherOne> than make macro magic
21:14 -!- Yoshi2 [~chatzilla@xdsl-78-35-227-236.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
21:14 <+pdelvo> it would be cool to have a json documentation which can be parsed to generate packet classes
21:15 < AnotherOne> i'll try to parse wiki later
21:15 <+pdelvo> to parse the wiki will be hard i think
21:15 < AnotherOne> once i have stable packet architecture
21:15 < AnotherOne> i love parsing
21:15 <+pdelvo> Regex <3 ?
21:16 < AnotherOne> especially hardcore pure c++ parsing
21:16 < AnotherOne> nope:)
21:16 < AnotherOne> not yet
21:16 <+pdelvo> regex is cool
21:16 < AnotherOne> yes
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21:16 < AnotherOne> but i'm too lazy to get regex
21:16 < AnotherOne> i dont need it now
21:16 < AnotherOne> but i must do it
21:17 <+pdelvo> I think you will be faster when you 1. learn regex and then 2. use regex to parse it then parse it on your own
21:17 -!- Yoshi2|_ [~chatzilla@xdsl-78-35-198-220.netcologne.de] has joined #mcdevs
21:18 < AnotherOne> there are just html tables
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21:19 < dav1d> parsing from the wiki?
21:19 < dav1d> why
21:19 < dav1d> https://github.com/Wallbraker/PacketsJson
21:19 < dav1d> well 1.4.3
21:19 < AnotherOne> heh:D
21:19 < dav1d> but you could update it to 1.5.2 
21:20 < dav1d> wouldn't be a huge deal, I would think
21:20 < dav1d> s/deal/job/
21:20 < dav1d> also
21:20 < AnotherOne> oh damn
21:20 < dav1d> https://github.com/Wallbraker/PacketMaker
21:20 -!- Yoshi2 [~chatzilla@xdsl-81-173-160-195.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
21:20 < AnotherOne> so many new things
21:21 < dav1d> probably really fast adapted for c++
21:21 < eddyb> AnotherOne: once you get to learn a language like JS (ES6 is even better) - you can script things much better than your silly C++ code :P
21:21 < dav1d> pfft
21:21 < dav1d> Js
21:21 < AnotherOne> python power
21:21  * dav1d got an awesome JS job today
21:21 < dav1d> AnotherOne: indeed :)
21:21 < eddyb> python is just silly for these things
21:22 < dav1d> eddyb: why?
21:22 < eddyb> dav1d: that JSON is kinda verbose for me
21:22 -!- Yoshi2|_ [~chatzilla@xdsl-78-35-198-220.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
21:22 < dav1d> eddyb: json.loads() and I have a 1:1 representation of that in python data types
21:22 < AnotherOne> let the holy war begin
21:22 < dav1d> AnotherOne: ha we already had a few of these wars, eddyb and me
21:22 < eddyb> dav1d: I don't mean JSON in python
21:23 < dav1d> oh
21:23 < dav1d> for you
21:23 < eddyb> https://github.com/eddyb/node-mcsmp/blob/master/lib/protocol.js#L10
21:23 < dav1d> whatever gotta watch homeland (and I would do it in python :P)
21:23 < eddyb> what do you think?
21:23 < eddyb> dav1d: homeland is awesome and I'm sad it was canceled :(
21:23 < dav1d> REALLY
21:23 < dav1d> omg nooooo
21:23 < dav1d> about to finish season one
21:24 < dav1d> I love homeland so far
21:24 < AnotherOne> what is homeland?
21:24 < eddyb> a TV series
21:24 < eddyb> dav1d: I can output code easier than Wallbraker does, from my JS representation
21:24 < dav1d> man this sucks
21:25 < dav1d> eddyb: Dynamic vs. static language :)
21:25 < eddyb> no, I mean, doing the same thing
21:25 < dav1d> I think his approach was to have a base for generating code for every language
21:25 < eddyb> outputting code "to disk"
21:26 < eddyb> and my representation is easy to convert to the thing deoxxa uses, even with a regex
21:26 < AnotherOne> you say "to disk" as if it is something bad
21:26 < eddyb> I mean saving source code
21:26 < eddyb> for compilation at a later time
21:27 < AnotherOne> so why is generating c++ code in c++ bad?
21:27 < eddyb> because C++ isn't that good at string processing
21:27 < eddyb> at least not with STL, a custom solution might be better
21:29 < eddyb> in JS (and, I know, other scripting languages), you work with strings, as you would with integers in C++, and it has native regexps
21:29 <+pdelvo> getting all client -> server packets of your js file: client2server[^0-9]+((?<protocolid>[0-9]x[0-9A-Fa-f]{2}):\s*\[(?<types>.*?)\],?\s+)+
21:30 < eddyb> heh
21:30 < eddyb> I mean, copying the code then using regexp to replace to the format deoxxa used
21:30 < eddyb> v8 compiles regexps to native, which makes them one of the fastest string processing utilities ever (I heard D can compile regexps at compile-time, too)
21:30 < eddyb> oh, and, it's all dynamic
21:31 <+pdelvo> .net can do that too. even to a external dll if you want. but i think you really dont need this convertion ofden so performance should not be a problem here
21:31 < eddyb> I meant in general
21:31 < AnotherOne> hey pdevlo
21:31 <+pdelvo> hi
21:31 <+pdelvo> :D
21:32 < AnotherOne> say "pig" in german
21:32 < eddyb> you may be able to beat C parser code with regexps
21:32 <+pdelvo> Schwein
21:32 <+pdelvo> ? :D
21:32 < AnotherOne> die or der?
21:32 <+pdelvo> das
21:32 < dav1d> haha
21:32 < AnotherOne> oh
21:32 < AnotherOne> that german
21:33 <+pdelvo> xD
21:33 < AnotherOne> now i can say "du bist das Schwein"
21:33 < dav1d> german is a bitch (to lern)
21:33 < dav1d> AnotherOne: "du bist ein Schwein" :)
21:33 < AnotherOne> why so?
21:33 < AnotherOne> what is ein?
21:33 < dav1d> "a" = "ein" (english - german)
21:34 < eddyb> das being the
21:34 < dav1d> you are - "du bist", a - "ein", pig - "Schwein"
21:34 < eddyb> definite article vs indefinite article
21:34 < eddyb> amirite? (I know no german at all :P)
21:34 < dav1d> yes
21:35 < AnotherOne> for female "ein" too?
21:35 <+pdelvo> eine
21:35 < dav1d> AnotherOne: yes and no
21:35 < dav1d> it's complex
21:35 < dav1d> for your pig example yes
21:35 < dav1d> for e.g. for "bitch" no
21:35 < dav1d> it would be "eine"
21:36 < eddyb> du bist eine bietch
21:36 < AnotherOne> "bietch"
21:36 < AnotherOne> some kind of assimilation?
21:36 < AnotherOne> or native word?
21:36  * eddyb points AnotherOne to "(I know no german at all :P)"
21:37 < dav1d> well you could call that dialect
21:37 < dav1d> some people say it like that
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21:37 < dav1d> proper translation would be "Hure" or "Schlampe"
21:37 < eddyb> it's an "assimilating" made-up translation
21:37 <+pdelvo> more or less. you can use "Schlampe" or "Prostituierte", "Dirne", "Hure"
21:37 < eddyb> Hure is like hoe?
21:38 < AnotherOne> is there word "aa" meaning shit?
21:38 < AnotherOne> in german
21:38 <+pdelvo> if you talk to children < 5 years to might use that :D
21:38 < AnotherOne> heh
21:38 < dav1d> eddyb: I'd rather say "Schlampe" but yeah, these mean basically all the same
21:39 < AnotherOne> i saw that in dictionary
21:39 < dav1d> Schlampe is more spoken langauge
21:39 < dav1d> well "Dirne" wouldn't be a translation for bitch in bavaria
21:39 < AnotherOne> dat bavaria
21:39 < dav1d> :P
21:40 < dav1d> AnotherOne: "aa" = shit, kinda, children might say that
21:40 < dav1d> oh well pdelvo already answered that
21:40 < AnotherOne> i got it:)
21:40 < AnotherOne> but i saw this in dictionary
21:40 < eddyb> lol
21:40 < AnotherOne> thought about "real" word
21:41 <+pdelvo> Im really sure people in germany would laugh if you use it :D
21:41 < AnotherOne> :D
21:41 < AnotherOne> and "kake"?
21:42 <+pdelvo> depends on what you want to say. 
21:42 < AnotherOne> shit
21:42 <+pdelvo> "Oh shit!" can be translated to "Oh Kacke"
21:43 < dav1d> shit = "Scheisse" 
21:43 <+pdelvo> but if you want to say that you were on a toilett it is not used. 
21:43 < dav1d> Ich geh mal scheissen
21:44 < dav1d> ^ vulgar sentence for, I need to poop
21:44 < eddyb> ok guys
21:44 < eddyb> enough shit talk
21:44 < AnotherOne> lol