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03:37 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1957 18 files : Continuing the transition of MapGenerator to the new system. Added new FlatMapGenerator class. 
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04:24 <+kev009> TkTech: there is a custom captcha, I think it's human farmed out
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08:23 < pbunny> i am implementing a multithreaded world (separate thread for region)
08:23 < pbunny> sometimes region A needs to access region B (usually adjactent one)
08:23 < pbunny> is this sequence safe? :
08:24 < pbunny> 1) thread A locks region A to do stuff
08:24 < pbunny> 2) thread A needs access to region B
08:24 < pbunny> 3) thread A unlock region A, locks region B
08:24 < pbunny> 4) thread A does stuff with region B
08:24 < pbunny> 5) thread A unlocks region B, locks region A
08:24 < pbunny> 6) ...
08:25 < pbunny> regions contain chunks with blockdata, entities,metaentities and players
08:26 < pbunny> what problems can arise from that (i.e. if region A gets modified while reading region B)?
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09:02 < cathode> i have a better idea:
09:03 < cathode> wait, nvm.
09:21 < ezdiy> pbunny: deadlock, tA locks Tb, Tb locks Ta at the same time.....
09:21 < ezdiy> you want 3) thread A locks region B, unlocks region A to force correct ordering
09:26 < pbunny> ezdiy: no.
09:27 < pbunny> ezdiy: deadlock will occur in your scenario
09:27 < pbunny> ezdiy: in my - tA locks Tb while Tb locks tA and they will both succeed
09:28 < pbunny> cathode: what idea?
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09:28 < jast> why the unlock X/lock Y pairs?
09:29 < pbunny> jast: to prevent deadlock
09:29 < pbunny> so maximum of 1 mutex will be locked by any thread in any time
09:29 < pbunny> still, i'm a bit concerned of what can happen if region A will be modified while thread A is reading something from region B
09:30 < jast> well, all of these locks are strictly finite, right?
09:30 < pbunny> finite?
09:30 < jast> I mean, I don't know what your code actually does with the regions
09:30 < jast> the way I see it, your changes to region B are clearly bounded
09:30 < jast> so if you lock B, it's guaranteed that you'll unlock it again Soon(tm)
09:30 < pbunny> of course
09:30 < jast> I don't see how a deadlock could occur then
09:31 < pbunny> jast: it can't
09:31 < jast> with two mutexes, I mean
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09:31 < pbunny> jast: 1) thread A locks region A 2) thread B locks region B 3) thread A locks region B (freezes) 4) thread B locks region A (freezes)
09:32 < jast> right, makes sense in that case
09:33 < jast> I just have this feeling that the unlock/lock sequence might lead to some kind of race condition
09:33 < jast> depends on what the specific operations are, of course
09:33 < pbunny> reading/writing blocks, changing entity positions, etc
09:33 < ezdiy> pbunny: you're right, it will deadlock in case you screw up unlocking afterwards
09:33 < pbunny> i haven't thought of something dangerous there yet
09:34 < pbunny> ezdiy: i won't screw up unlocking, of course
09:34 < pbunny> still, i imagine hundreds (later - thousands maybe) locking/unlocking done per second
09:34 < pbunny> mutex lock/unlock is fast, right?
09:34 < ezdiy> on single cpu yeah
09:35 < pbunny> on different cpus
09:35 < jast> then no
09:35 < ezdiy> if your threads start pinballing between cpus, well thats different story
09:35 < pbunny> jast: how slow?
09:35 < jast> unless you have hardware-implemented mutexes
09:35 < pbunny> ezdiy: they can't iirc
09:35 < ezdiy> pbunny: linux tries to keep cross-locking threads on same cpu
09:35 < pbunny> when thread is spawned, it won't migrate to another cpu
09:35 < pbunny> well there's 4 cpus now
09:35 < jast> multi-core mutexes require some amount of spinning
09:35 < pbunny> how slow lock/unlock can be?
09:35 < ezdiy> *very*
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09:35 < ezdiy> like 30k a seconds
09:35 < pbunny> ezdiy: in nanoseconds plz
09:36 < ezdiy> 30k/s
09:36 < ezdiy> will burn the machine
09:36 < pbunny> ezdiy: any link about it?
09:36 < ezdiy> nope, just ballpark for my box
09:36 < jast> well they use busy waiting basically
09:37 < ezdiy> pbunny: just try it out
09:37 < ezdiy> pbunny: if you do simple work while locked it should be ok
09:37 < jast> wikipedia lists five algorithms used for implementing cross-core mutexes
09:37 < ezdiy> if you do massive memory access
09:37 < pbunny> well if there will be 100 thread, that means about 25 threads / CPU
09:37 < ezdiy> it will suck
09:37 < ezdiy> simple as that
09:37 < pbunny> so mostly locking/unlocking will be fast, right?
09:37 < ezdiy> pbunny: just try it
09:37 < ezdiy> it depends on scenario
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09:37 < pbunny> ezdiy: i will try it when i implement it
09:37 < jast> what really eats your CPU is freezing while waiting for a lock
09:37 < ezdiy> jast: yup, context switches
09:37 < ezdiy> and cache bouncing
09:38 < ezdiy> thats why its 30-50k range
09:38 < jast> it's a spinloop, basically
09:38 < jast> i.e. while (lock still taken) {}
09:38 < jast> bam, full core usage
09:38 < pbunny> jast: i'm fine with that
09:38 < ezdiy> jast: mutexes are more akin to spin-until-context switch :)
09:38 < pbunny> jast: hmm, wait.
09:38 < jast> well yeah, of course there are context switches
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09:38 < pbunny> jast: what if there's several threads on cpu core and one is locking?
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09:39 < ezdiy> pbunny: don't worry about it
09:39 < jast> but since the thread now requires a lot of CPU time, it'll get more time allocated to it by the scheduler
09:39 < ezdiy> pbunny: it does not work like that :)
09:39 < jast> that takes away CPU time from the other threads on the same core
09:39 < ezdiy> jast: nah, the task is scheduled back once the lock is released
09:39 < ezdiy> kernels are not *that* stupid
09:39 < ezdiy> unless you use custom userspace spinlocks
09:39 < jast> depends on the implementation of the lock
09:40 < jast> what are you using for locking?
09:40 < pbunny> pthread_mutex_lock
09:40 < ezdiy> then its a futex
09:40 < jast> that's userspace locking afaik
09:40 < ezdiy> spinning-until-cs
09:40 < ezdiy> and scheduled back on release
09:40 < ezdiy> ie 0% cpu usage
09:41 < jast> ah, kernel-accelerated, nice
09:42 < ezdiy> pbunny: btw, you can use lockfree structure for a region
09:42 < ezdiy> pbunny: if you want it to really scale
09:43 < ezdiy> (if its just simple array, atomic ops speed up things mightily at a cost of sub-nanosecond ingame race windows between blocks)
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09:49 < pbunny> ezdiy: what do you mean?
09:49 < jast> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_operation
09:49 < pbunny> btw, i decided to remove regions and just use array of chunks for every thread
09:50 < pbunny> and use a thread pool
09:50 < ezdiy> pbunny: AtomicIntegerArray, in java :)
09:50 < pbunny> ezdiy: java sucks.
09:50 < ezdiy> well, or anything equivalent
09:50 < ezdiy> it exists in every decent language
09:50 < pbunny> ezdiy: atomic in multi-threaded app still requires locking
09:50 < pbunny> so i don't see difference
09:51 < ezdiy> heh
09:51 < ezdiy> nevermind
09:51 < ezdiy> :)
09:51 < ezdiy> (just read the java docs what kind of locking you really need for atomic array ops)
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09:53 < pbunny> i want nothing to do with java
09:56 < pbunny> ezdiy: i prefer updating a block with single operation (assignment)
09:56 < pbunny> not 100 like in java
09:57 < ezdiy> hehe
09:57 < ezdiy> once again
09:57 < ezdiy> you dont need locking for that
09:57 < ezdiy> thats what atomic ops are for
09:57 < pbunny> ezdiy: you can't just write to something thread-safe without locking.
09:58 < pbunny> well you can time threads carefully but that's wrong
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09:59 < ezdiy> pbunny: seriously, you dont need locks to assign, increment, test or increment an array value
10:00 < ezdiy> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linearizability#Primitive_atomic_instructions
10:01 < ezdiy> (lock-free lists and trees can be implemented on top of that)
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10:05 < pbunny> "This mechanism is not sufficient in a multi-processor environment since each CPU can interfere with the process regardless of whether interrupts occur or not."
10:05 < pbunny> thx ezdiy 
10:06 < ezdiy> pbunny: When there are multiple instructions which must be completed without interruption :)
10:06 < ezdiy> (who said there are?)
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10:07 < ezdiy> but you're right that compare-and-swap is not for the faint of the heart (which is why we use fancy java libraries to do that for us :)
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10:08 < pbunny> ezdiy: yeah, and the second solution there is using locking
10:08 < pbunny> you've been most useful
10:09 < pbunny> "retry if the value read in by the compare-and-swap did not match the value we originally read" - true java approach, lol
10:09 < ezdiy> hehe
10:09 < ezdiy> we do that in c++ too
10:09 < ezdiy> whats worse, even linux kernel does it
10:09 < ezdiy> (lock free lru)
10:10 < ezdiy> pbunny: btw, running separate thread for each region and using lockfree queue (such as zeromq) to pass messages between them works too
10:11 < pbunny> ezdiy: passing messages will increase lag
10:11 < ezdiy> how?
10:11 < ezdiy> its just atomic writes
10:11 < ezdiy> and reads
10:11 < ezdiy> *no waiting*
10:11 < ezdiy> on mutexes :)
10:12 < pbunny> ezdiy: everything waits while atomic write is going.
10:12 < pbunny> with mutexes, only related threads wait
10:12 < ezdiy> The compare-and-swap instruction allows any processor to atomically test and modify a memory location, preventing such multiple-processor collisions.
10:13 < ezdiy> thats it
10:13 < ezdiy> others processor go on *unless* they touch the value
10:13 < ezdiy> at the exact same time
10:14 < ezdiy> pbunny: locks are heavyweight and always will be, however not everything can be implemented lock free (ie succession of operations which *must* be done in succession, without other threads interference)
10:14 < ezdiy> depends on what youre trying to do
10:14 < pbunny> ezdiy: good. so every write will stop 25% of my threads
10:14 < pbunny> ( as i have only 4 cores)
10:14 < ezdiy> all threads write to the same location?
10:14 < pbunny> a mutex lock will stop like 1-2 threads
10:15 < ezdiy> pbunny: the instruction does not stop other cpus btw
10:15 < pbunny> ezdiy: i won't have a single write.
10:15 < ezdiy> it compares and swaps
10:15 < ezdiy> :)
10:15 < pbunny> there are like hundreds of writes per second per thread
10:15 < pbunny> atomic write is slower
10:15 < ezdiy> never mind :)
10:15 < ezdiy> just tried to preach proper mt coding practices and failed miserably
10:16 < ezdiy> linux developers got it all wrong
10:16 < ezdiy> and guys at sun too :)
10:16 < jast> ezdiy: some people can't be preached to
10:17 < jast> some people have a different conception of statistics and probability than everyone else
10:17 < jast> if I have many writes, it follows by necessity that all of them will touch the exact same location every time!
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10:23 < pbunny> jast: atomic writes are slower than regular writes.
10:26 < jast> and locks are slower than atomic writes. so let's use locks!
10:27 < ezdiy> pbunny: thats why its used only seldom on things like message queues
10:27 < ezdiy> :)
10:27 < pbunny> "In computer science, compare-and-swap (CAS) is an atomic instruction used in multithreading to achieve synchronization. It compares the contents of a memory location to a given value and, only if they are the same, modifies the contents of that memory location to a given new value."
10:27 < pbunny> so its completely useless for me
10:27 < ezdiy> btw
10:27 < ezdiy> here comes the shocker
10:27 < ezdiy> locks are implemented using
10:27 < ezdiy> guess what
10:27 < ezdiy> CAS!
10:27 < ezdiy> :)
10:27 < pbunny> ok, so?
10:27 < ezdiy> well, naturally its useless to you
10:28 < pbunny> jast: 1 lock + 100 writes is faster than 100 atomic writes
10:28 < ezdiy> so you dont need locks either
10:28 < pbunny> or 1000
10:28 < ezdiy> (sorry but you started :)
10:28 < ezdiy> pbunny: thats probably true
10:28 < ezdiy> if you indeed do lock and 100 writes
10:28 < pbunny> i will write more probably
10:28 < ezdiy> if you do lock, write, unlock
10:28 < ezdiy> then no
10:28 < pbunny> what
10:28 < pbunny> why?
10:29 < ezdiy> lock, write, unlock = atomicwrite
10:29 < pbunny> ezdiy: yeah
10:29 < pbunny> so?
10:29 < pbunny> it will be a single write
10:29 < ezdiy> except atomic op is like zillion times faster
10:29 < pbunny> how so?
10:29 < ezdiy> instead of doing lack/unlock before and after
10:30 < ezdiy> simply put
10:30 < ezdiy> because lock and unlock
10:30 < ezdiy> are CAS in themselves
10:30 < pbunny> yes, so?
10:30 < pbunny> they are done once per iteration
10:30 < pbunny> not for every write
10:30 < ezdiy> CAS, write, CAS
10:30 < ezdiy> or just CAS
10:30 < ezdiy> which one is faster?
10:30 < pbunny> are you a troll?
10:30 < ezdiy> sorry
10:30 < ezdiy> you started
10:30 < pbunny> CAS, write everything, CAS
10:30 < ezdiy> ah
10:30 < pbunny> or CAS, write, CAS, write, CAS, ...
10:30 < ezdiy> i asked
10:31 < ezdiy> 10:24 < ezdiy> if you indeed do lock and 100 writes
10:31 < ezdiy> :)
10:31 < ezdiy> (i know, that makes me the troll now)
10:32 < ezdiy> you'll need lock for that because atomic ops are useless for things which must be done in succession
10:32 < ezdiy> which is much bigger concern
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22:01 < rom1504> superjoe: hi, nice that mineflayer is up to date :)
22:01 < superjoe> hi :)
22:01 < rom1504> however... i keep having this problem with callsite taking forever in the npm install
22:01 < rom1504> it takes like 40s before callsite
22:02 < rom1504> then a lot of time, i'm not sure it's going to end
22:02 < rom1504> and if it stop it, it complains about ursa_native if i try to launch it
22:03 < rom1504> oh, it finally did it, something like 3min after, seem i'm not patient enough
22:04 < rom1504> seems strange it should take that much time doing it seems nothing though
22:08 < rom1504> well, everything that worked before seem to work
22:08 < rom1504> (i.e. not crafting)
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22:23 < superjoe> yes I saw that in the issue
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06:09 <+SpaceManiac> In the Berekely vicinity for the weekend, any sights to see?
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14:34 < TkTech> Bah, damn ice storm, slowly running out of things to leech batteries from.
14:41 < Morrolan> Better hook your bike up to a generator, then. ;)
14:46 < TkTech> Bike is buried in a pitch black storage room :/
14:49 < Morrolan> Oh. Where do you live, that there's snow storms which cut you off from the power grid, anyway?
14:57 < TkTech> Peterborough. This isn't a snow storm, it's an ice storm.
14:57 < TkTech> Snow storms don't do that much to a Canadian city short of something insane :)
15:01 < TkTech> This is past when these storms normally happen, so people have summer tires on, salt+sand contracts are over, and such
15:01 < TkTech> But a bad ice storm can be much worse (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Ice_Storm_of_1998)
15:02 < dav1d> lol
15:02 < dav1d> wikipedia shows me that in the mobile version
15:02 < dav1d> nvm
15:02 < dav1d> it's a mobile link
15:05 < TkTech> Sorry, I'm on a phone, my UPS died two hours ago
15:05 < eddyb> :(
15:05 < dav1d> TkTech: :O
15:05 < dav1d> never had such a storm
15:06 < eddyb> TkTech: how long is it bound to keep going like that?
15:06 < eddyb> just hours or can it go for days?
15:06 < TkTech> This is pretty much over now, it's bumped up just above 0 so it's just rain, but it'll get worse if it continues into the night and starts freezing again.
15:07 < TkTech> The duration isn't the problem, it destroys trees and above ground infrastructure
15:07 < eddyb> it's like hail?
15:07 < TkTech> The power can be out for 10 minutes or in the absolute worst cases over a month.
15:07 < TkTech> Depends on how much has to be fixed/rebuilt
15:08 < eddyb> one minute everything is fine, the next hell breaks loose
15:08 < TkTech> Not really, it doesn't freeze until it touches something
15:08 < TkTech> Which is why it damages power lines
15:09 < dav1d> canada lol
15:09 < dav1d> poor guys!
15:09 < eddyb> well, I hope you get in the clear soon and it's not too much of a mess to deal with :/
15:10 <+ammar2> TkTech: how long does your ups run?
15:10 < TkTech> Thanks :)
15:11 < TkTech> When just running the router and DCIS modem hours
15:11 < TkTech> With a 90watt laptop not very long, around 30 minutes
15:11 < eddyb> dav1d: yeah, here it's spring, 23°C inside with no heating and open windows, and outside I can hear birds singing and there's a cherry tree just outside by block and it's blossomed
15:12 < dav1d> yeah same here
15:12 < dav1d> well, yesterday
15:12 < dav1d> vienna!
15:12 <+ammar2> nice place vienna, spent around a week or so there on vacation
15:13 < eddyb> TkTech: that sounds like what my laptop battery would last if I didn't use sleep to save it
15:13 < dav1d> ammar2: you're german?
15:13 <+ammar2> dav1d: nope
15:13 < dav1d> ah
15:13 < dav1d> so many of this channel are german, but can't remember who actually is german ...
15:14 < dav1d> yeah moved to vienna for studies, so far it's a really cool city
15:14 <+ammar2> aah, my brother actually studied there too
15:14 <+ammar2> part of the astromundus program
15:15 < TkTech> How affordable is it for a student?
15:16 <+ammar2> my brother was on a 50% scholarship or so, so I can't say for certain
15:17 < TkTech> Lucky, most of you get college/university so much cheaper than in North America
15:17 < dav1d> vienne is relativly cheap
15:19 < dav1d> 150€ for a student public transport ticket (if you're not a austrian citizen) and you pay 17,50€/semester for the university
15:19 < dav1d> you can get a room from 280€ to unlimited, but for ~330€ you can get a nice room
15:22 < TkTech> That character is a block, supposed to be the euro sign?
15:22 < dav1d> yeah
15:22 < dav1d> utf-8 with latin-1 as fallback!
15:24 < eddyb> TkTech: http://starlogs.net/#mcdevs/Burger
15:24 < eddyb> I hope you can load that on your phone
15:25 < TkTech> Surprisingly, yes
15:25 < TkTech> Hey, power!
15:26 < TkTech> ...and it's gone.
15:26 < eddyb> (^_^) :D
15:26 < eddyb> :(
15:28 < dav1d> eddyb: lol
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16:36 < toqueteos> hi there guys, i've been struggling to get http://wiki.vg/Protocol_Encryption#Client this working but I always get NO as response.. any suggestions?
16:37 < roblabla> your sessionID or username is probably wrong
16:38 < toqueteos> oh, sorry it's the server section, not the client's one
16:38 < toqueteos> it has to be the serverId part, i think
16:38 < toqueteos> because i verified the encrypted token received
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16:42 < toqueteos> my sha1-javaish function works as expected, encrypted token sent is ok, username ok.. hmm
16:47 < toqueteos> here's the sha1 function, is anyone ok if I add it to the examples section? http://play.golang.org/p/UY1ki55CPt
16:47 < toqueteos> everyone*
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17:14 < jast> it's "complement", not "compliment" :P
17:17 < toqueteos> lol, you are right
17:17 < toqueteos> thanks jast, will fix it right now
17:22 < toqueteos> another question: why isn't https://minecraft.net/haspaid.jsp?user=<username> used to check if a player has premium version or not?
17:23 < jast> used by what?
17:23 < toqueteos> servers with online-mode=true
17:23 < jast> why should it?
17:23 < jast> the login server knows it anyway
17:23 < toqueteos> simpler approach
17:24 < conehead> Because that still doesn't establish that the player is who they say they are
17:24 < toqueteos> i could use it for my server but i want to use the standar sha-1 weird hash thingy
17:24 < toqueteos> because you verify the token sent before you compute the sha-1 hash
17:26 < toqueteos> that sha-1 hash doesn't say if the player is who he says he is
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17:48 < toqueteos> yay! i got it working
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18:13 < TkTech> Bleh, my UPS is more reliable than my teleco, untested generator failed so now 115000 people have no power, no Internet, and the cell network is piss slow.
18:14 < roblabla> that makes many angry people...
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18:19 < TkTech> Indeed. No longer a quick fix, lines need to be rebuilt. http://twitter.com/banjomommy/status/322732027784863744/photo/1
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20:05 < SL37> Hey can anyone shed some light on Encryption Key Response 0xFC?
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20:05 < SL37> I am reading some stuff on mc.kev009.com about Minecrafts network protocol and am having some trouble parsing it.
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20:07 < SL37> It states it should consist of a string + short + byte array + short + byte array but they state the total size is 7 + string + array sizes
20:07 < SL37> Which I don't see how a byte + short + short = 7?
20:07 < roblabla> eh ?
20:07 < roblabla> 0xFC doesn't contain strings ?
20:08 < roblabla> it's Short + Byte Array + Short + Byte Array
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20:08 < SL37> Ah crap... I am reading 0xFD.
20:09 < SL37> Wow I originally coded it as that and then I accidently flipped to 0xFD.
20:09 < SL37> But while I am at is how to they figure 0xFD is 7 bytes +?
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20:19 < roblabla> SL37: 1 byte for the packet id + 2 bytes for the length of string + 2 bytes for length of key + 2 bytes for length of token
20:20 < roblabla> Remember, the string always sends a short with it's length. 
20:22 < SL37> Ah that I didn't know.
20:23 < SL37> Which would really help me in attempting to parse this string haha.
20:23 < roblabla> You should read about the default types
20:23 < roblabla> It really helps
20:24 < SL37> I did go over it but skipped over string. So yeah that was an apparent mistake.
20:24 < roblabla> yup ^^
20:26 < SL37> Why was the server check string in little endian where everything else is in big endian if you happen to know that?
20:26 < SL37> Server List Ping to be more clear
20:27 < roblabla> I believe to make it easier for websites to parse ? I dunno.
20:27 < roblabla> Everything in java is in big-endian normally
20:28 < roblabla> Wait what ?
20:28 < roblabla> 0xFF always sends strings in big endian if that's what you're talking about
20:30 < SL37> Ah that may be why. And it was sending 0xFE
20:30  * roblabla is confusled
20:30 < roblabla> are you coding a client or a server ?
20:30 < roblabla> 0xFE doesn't contain any string.
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20:31 < SL37> 0xFE sends a string.
20:31 < roblabla> no
20:31 < SL37> Gah 0xFF sorry
20:31 < roblabla> then yes, it does
20:31 < roblabla> and it sends a big-endian UCS string
20:31 < SL37> My code is real messy right now as I get this all working so I am all over the place.
20:32 < roblabla> bbl
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20:33 < SL37> Ah ok yup I noticed that my buffer is little endian as I pass a string into it being converted to little endian. Which is like a double negative.
20:34 < SL37> But there is a typo then on the site.
20:34 < SL37> "After the first 3 bytes, the packet is a little-endian UCS-2 string." As stated on the Server_List_Ping page.
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21:13 < SL37> @roblabla Yeah I noticed I was confused because there was a typo on the site. On the Server_List_Ping page it states that it is a little-endian UCS-2 string.
21:14 < roblabla> Hmm
21:26 < pbunny> hi.
21:26 < pbunny> in Client Settings (0xCC) packet, there is "View distance byte 0 0-3 for 'far', 'normal', 'short', 'tiny'. "
21:27 < pbunny> what are exact values (radius of chunks?) of these 'far', 'normal', 'short', 'tiny' ?
21:27 < dav1d> 3,5,7,10?
21:27 < dav1d> but only guesses
21:28 < pbunny> 10 means player can see 10 chunks away?
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21:37 < SL37> What is the KeySpec of the servers key?
21:37 <+ammar2> well, the view distance is represented by the number of chunks away from the one the player is standing on
21:37 <+ammar2> check the mc wiki, they usually have info on this sorta stuff
21:39 < SL37> Hmm they talk about making a SharedSecret  which I am a little confused about but got working. But then it shows "encrypts it with the server's public key (PKCS#1 v1.5 padded)" but I assume that means the cipher type.
22:15 < dav1d> SL37: you want server or client side?
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22:16 < dav1d> SL37: https://gist.github.com/Dav1dde/3900517 helps maybe
22:17 < SL37> This is the client side. Basically trying to figure out how to generate the client encryption key which I think I have. But I am having problems converting the server key.
22:18 < dav1d> then the gist is for you
22:19 < SL37> It looks right that I am parsing the server message correctly but I get a key size of 162 which doesn't make sense.
22:19 < dav1d> then you parse the packet wrong
22:22 < SL37> Ah I think where I am off is that it is an RSA key.
22:23 < SL37> So now I am more confused because does the server use an RSA key where the client uses an AES key?
22:24 < SL37>  client will generate a 16-byte shared secret, to be used with the AES/CFB8 stream cipher
22:25 < SL37> Because what I generate from that is a SecretKeySpec is used with AES, also it states that it is an AES stream... which I assume RSA wouldn't be using.
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22:29 < dav1d> SL37: it's a safe key exchange
22:29 < dav1d> RSA → exchange AES key → AES
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22:40 < SL37> Gah, there we go looks like it is working.
22:41 < SL37> The server isn't kicking me on response. Just need to enable encryption on my stream and send the 0 payload. Thanks.
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--- Day changed sam. avril 13 2013
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01:02 < SL37> Hey what is the proper java cipher information when ciphering the 0xFC packet?
01:03 < SL37> I have so far "RSA/../PKCS1Padding" and I am using "AES/CFB8/NoPadding" for sending my login packet but it is rejecting my login packet.
01:05 < SL37> I assume I am either not encrypting properly when sending my AES key causing it to decipher incorrectly which I assume is wrong. Or I am ciphering my AES traffic wrong which I think I am doing right.
01:12 < SL37> Ok I am sending "RSA/ECB..." which I am getting a packet back. Need to find out why my login request 0xCD isn't going through. I am using "AES/CFB8/NoPadding" which looks right.
01:13 < roblabla> I *think* you need to pad
01:13 < roblabla> let me take a look at my code
01:14 < roblabla> wait, SL37, you making a client or a server ?
01:18 < dav1d> you need padding read the stuff we link you
01:18 < roblabla> aes128-cbf8 with sharedSecret both as key and IV
01:19 < roblabla> and you need to pad using PKCS1
01:20 < dav1d> use sadimusis mcp3 proxy to debug the sequence
01:22 < roblabla> dav1d: link ?
01:22 < roblabla> I can't find it o_O
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01:25 < dav1d> Dunno, search git hub, I am on phone
01:29 < roblabla> Kay
01:32 < SL37> And it is a client.
01:32 < SL37> "AES/CFB8/PKCS1Padding" ?
01:32 < roblabla> Looks good
01:37 <+ammar2> PKCS1Padding is part of the RSA bit, not sure why you're linking it with AES
01:37 < SL37> For sending packets after the auth.
01:37 < SL37> I am sending my 0xcd packet.
01:39 < dav1d> o.O
01:39 < SL37> From what i read i generate an aes key and encrypt it with the rsa key and send that back with 0xfc packet. Which works because i get a blank 0xfc packet back.
01:39 < dav1d> Aes has no padding
01:40 < roblabla> oh derp
01:40 < dav1d> and a blocksize of 8bit (this specific AES)
01:40 < roblabla> I goofed
01:40 < dav1d> AES128CFB8
01:40 < SL37> Yea I thought not because when I was reading regular MC traffic I noticed it was only 2 bytes long.
01:40 < dav1d> a padding would ruin it, since you get a constant stream you can't tell to wait for N bytes to start decrypting
01:41 < SL37> Yeah I have a 128 bit key and my cipher is "AES/CFB8/NoPadding"
01:41 < roblabla> SL37: what do you use as key and IV ?
01:41 < dav1d> rsa padding is: RSA_PKCS1_PADDING
01:41 < dav1d> wat?
01:41 < dav1d> AES CFB8 can't have a padding
01:42 < dav1d> also rsa != aes
01:42 < SL37> "RSA/ECB/PKCS1Padding" is my cipher for my 0xfc packet
01:42 < dav1d> rsa is used to exchange the AES key (which is the IV at the same time)
01:42 < roblabla> SL37: what language are you using ? 
01:43 < SL37> Java.
01:43 < dav1d> easy, if you can understand the packet, function doesn't error, you have most likely the correect
01:43 < SL37> And yeah I know.
01:43 < dav1d> also ECB reads wrong, but whatever I am not sure
01:43 < dav1d> also read the wiki, I am pretty sure there are examples
01:44 < SL37> I read the RSA key and generate an AES key on the client. I then encrypt my AES key with RSA and the verify key. I send both back.
01:44 < dav1d> lol
01:44 < dav1d> no Java example
01:44 < dav1d> but C++, C#, D
01:44 < SL37> Which works and the server gives me back the 0xFC packet with the blanks meaning that went well.
01:44 < dav1d> SL37: so you read the stuff someone links you?
01:45 < dav1d> so where is the problem...
01:45 < roblabla> no Java example for a protocol originally implemented in java...
01:45 < SL37> Also they aren't examples for this I don't think. They are for authing with MC.net
01:45 < dav1d> roblabla: use mcp
01:45 < SL37> And I understand C# and C++ fluently.
01:45 < dav1d> SL37: wrong
01:45 < roblabla> dav1d: decompiling minecraft takes like a day with my laptop...
01:45 < SL37> Where am I wrong?
01:45 < dav1d> there are 5 examples, and I linked you a guide on how to do it
01:46 < dav1d> roblabla: isn't that bad
01:46 < SL37> http://mc.kev009.com/Protocol_Encryption is where I am now.
01:46 < dav1d> performance increased quite a lot
01:46 < SL37> And there I see 3.
01:46 < dav1d> SL37: I see 5 and I linked you one of these
01:46 < SL37> Examples of generating Java-style hex digests: 
01:46 < dav1d> now scroll 1cm further down
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01:46 < SL37> Ah I see.
01:47 < dav1d> SL37: also wiki.vg
01:48 < dav1d> SL37: also if you understand that code fluently: https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/brala/network/connection.d
01:48 < dav1d> have fun, I am going to sleep
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01:53 < SL37> Huh yeah it doesn't seem to make any sense. From that connection.d I am following the same steps.
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02:24 <+md_5> <SL37> "AES/CFB8/PKCS1Padding" ?
02:24 <+md_5> NoPadding
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02:36 < SL37> What is IV?
02:36 < SL37> So I am thinking I am missing something here.
02:37 <+ammar2> initalization vector
02:38 < SL37> Once I get 0xFD (Enc Key Req) then I respond with 0xFC then the server responds with an empty 0xFC. 
02:39 < SL37> That seems to be working. Is the next step not to send an 0xCD (Client Status) w/ 0?
02:39 < SL37> I see there is something about a second 0xFC but I don't see any documentation further explaining this 0xFC.
02:40 < SL37> "After decrypting the shared secret in the second 0xFC"
02:41 < SL37> But I also packet sniffed vanilla MC client and it appeared that I should be doing everything correctly.
02:45 < Ghoul_> Hey guys
02:45 < Ghoul_> I was wondering who else gets pissed off by the fact minecraft packets don't have a length descriptor at the front of them
02:46 <+ammar2> SL37: yeah, once you receive the empty FC from the server you enable encryption and continue as you would normally
02:47 < Ghoul_> I recently tried to write a server using boost::asio
02:47 < Ghoul_> w/ 8 threads and fully async callbacks
02:47 < Ghoul_> lawd, I had to parse the packets for length to ensure they had fully arrived _and then_ I had to parse them for their actual data
02:47 < Ghoul_> ff
02:48 <+ammar2> welcome to minecraft development
02:48 < Ghoul_> lol
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02:48 < Ghoul_> I guess thread per socket is probably the best way to handle minecraft async
02:48 < Ghoul_> since then you can just use blocking reads
02:49 <+ammar2> nah, you can make non blocking io work too, a couple of projects here do it already
02:50 < Ghoul_> Well
02:50 < Ghoul_> Examples?
02:51 < Ghoul_> Because I always had the issue of trying to parse the packet lengths to know how much more to receive before calling the async handler was really expensive (and tiresome)
02:52 <+ammar2> bravo comes to mind https://github.com/bravoserver/bravo
02:52 <+ammar2> its high level, python, uses twisted
02:53 <+ammar2> not sure if you'll get much useful info out of it
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04:18 < SL37> In java what keyspec would I be using to generate a key from a recieved servers RSA key? X509EncodedKeySpec?
04:21 <+md_5> SecretKeySpec("aes")
04:21 <+md_5> iirc
04:22 < SL37> From an RSA key?
04:23 < SL37> I mean I have the byte data from the data stream that is to represent an rsa key.
04:23 < SL37> I used an X509EncodedKeySpec(byteRSAarray)
04:24 <+md_5>       KeyFactory keyfactory = KeyFactory.getInstance("RSA");
04:24 <+md_5> keyfactory.generatePublic(spec)
04:25 < SL37> KeyFactory.getInstance("RSA").generatePublic(new X509EncodedKeySpec(secret)); //Secret is the key array
04:25 < SL37> Is what I have.
04:26 < SL37> Cipher c = Cipher.getInstance("RSA/ECB/PKCS1Padding");
04:26 < SL37> c.init(Cipher.DECRYPT_MODE, rsa_key);
04:27 < SL37> Once I try and do a c.doFinal(enc_aes_key_array) I am getting a bad padding exception.
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04:59 < SL37> I saved an RSA key and an encrypted AES key to a text file. I verified the data from packet sniffing. When reading I verified as well. And both match up perfectly. What I am trying to do is decrypt the enc_aes using the RSA.
04:59 < SL37> Which is giving me the bad padding exception.
05:02 < SL37> The weird part is it is saying is saying Blocktype mismatch: -85 but I don't have a -85 (0xab) in my aes key.
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05:17 < SuperStunts> Hi, anyone know how to install python blessings on centos?
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05:47 <+SpaceManiac> Berkeley is nifty
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11:27 < pbunny> is there a way to disable achievements server-side ?
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11:45 < Calinou> no
11:45 < Calinou> all achievements are client side
12:11 < pbunny> what is the maximum number of chunks i can send in 0x38 (chunk bulk) packet?
12:12 < dav1d> I think it's unlimited (well limited by the type specifieng the number of chunks sent)
12:13 < pbunny> i remember seeing limit of 50 or so somewhere in wiki (values higher will cause client to crash) but can't find it anymore
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14:41 < pbunny> for some weird reason only 0x0 chunk is processed correctly on client when i send 0x38 packet
14:41 < pbunny> chunks with any other positions are ignored 
14:41 < pbunny> any ideas?
14:42 < dav1d> what if you only send one chunk at a time?
14:42 < dav1d> bukkit did that for a long time (maybe still does it)
14:43 < pbunny> dav1d: no difference
14:43 < pbunny> oh, you mean 0x33 ?
14:43 < pbunny> well i got 0x38 working on previous (ugly) version of my server
14:44 < pbunny> dav1d: can you connect to anonymous.lv:1337 and see what's going on?
14:44 < pbunny> it should send a single 1x1 chunk in 0x38 (spawn position is 20x20)
14:45 < pbunny> however client behaves like chunk wasn't received
14:45 < dav1d> nope sorry I can't
14:45 < dav1d> I have nothing set up right now
15:07 < pbunny> ok, i forgot to reverse endianness
15:07 < pbunny> stupid java
16:00 < jast> it's called network byte order... not exclusively a java thing
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16:48 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/H8iFMg
16:48 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo 8760ff5 - in packet 0x66, "shift" must be of type byte instead of boolean
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20:16 < TkTech> https://twitter.com/Dinnerbone/status/323049123664257024
20:19 < eddyb> from #minecraft: you can list and invalidate sessions/tokens
20:20 < eddyb> for example, you can share your account with someone without them being able to know your password, and you can revoke that access at any time
20:20 < roblabla> ._. that's awesome
20:22 < roblabla> eddyb: but can you have multiple valid tokens ?
20:22 < Grum> the idea was to eventually support upto 3
20:22 < eddyb> roblabla: IIRC yeah
20:22 < Grum> the number is kinda pulled from our ass though, we'll do whatever is a comfortable number to handle :)
20:23 < SinZ> so, lastlogin doesnt exist anymore, neat
20:23 < Grum> yeah no more 'oh hai password'
20:23 < eddyb> oh, and you might be able to have multiple copies of minecraft, each with its own username, under one mojang account
20:23 < Grum> yeah we'll end up doing a blizzard-style dropdown if you have multiple accounts
20:23 < Grum> (where you login, then select the account to play with)
20:30 < ShaRose> sweet
20:30 < ShaRose> when I came up with my auth idea I think I was thinking of 3-5 as well :V
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20:32 < TkTech> Grum: Any consideration for "parental controls"?
20:32 < eddyb> oh, heh
20:32 < Grum> TkTech: what sort?
20:33 < TkTech> For example an adult owning the mojang account and kids allowed to have their own under that.
20:33 < TkTech> Simple things for small children, like a "This user cannot play online" checkbox.
20:33 < eddyb> the parent mojang account can be used for all of them. and the parent can invalidate their tokens
20:33 < Grum> hmm nothing like that planned
20:33 < eddyb> if they don't know the password, they just can't play
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20:34 < SinZ> then you have the problem, what happens when the child is old enough to have his/her own mojang account
20:34 < TkTech> Exactly, it lends itself to it nicely, just need to build on it.
20:34 < SinZ> how easy would it be to transfer
20:34 < Grum> euuh not really trivial to do 'right'
20:34 < Grum> also ... they'll just use another launcher? :/
20:34 < TkTech> We're talking young kids here Grum.
20:35 < TkTech> Nothing complex necessary, just very simple controls.
20:35 < SinZ> the kids still too young to play CoD
20:35 < TkTech> I know many people (and some at work) that play with their kids who are very young.
20:35 < Grum> not really sure what the issue is with online play though
20:36 < SinZ> stay safe online
20:36 < SinZ> they dont know that
20:36 < Grum> 'very young'
20:36 < SinZ> dont know the concept of griefing
20:36 < eddyb> also, minecraft can be addictive :P
20:36 < TkTech> Grum: Co-worker X has two kids who play Minecraft with him and come home on the bus or with mom long before he does.
20:36 < TkTech> Grum: He'd love to let them play whenever they wanted but doesn't let them go online without supervision.
20:37 < ShaRose> TkTech they can just play offline
20:38 < Grum> i guess for that its would be best to have a 'timeslot' per mc-account and have the auth-server simply prevent them from playing online
20:38 < ShaRose> I'm assuming he has software to block access to the internet for third party applications, right?
20:38 < ShaRose> if so there's nothing to worry about
20:38 < Grum> or that indeed
20:38 < Grum> there is far better software for that than what we can provide
20:38 < ShaRose> it'll just say "Can't connect, wanna play online? Ok then, launching"
20:38 < ShaRose> and then they can connect to a lan server they can play on together or something
20:39 < TkTech> But how does that work when one kid shares his world with LAN play?
20:39 < ShaRose> if MC is blocked from internet access it'd share it.. over lan
20:39 < Grum> that is only local?
20:39 < TkTech> But does LAN work with two users from the same account?
20:39 < Grum> it should
20:40 < Grum> you login as a different mc-user
20:40 < ShaRose> well they'd need different names yeah
20:40 < Grum> if they select two different accounts, should just work fine
20:41 < TkTech> Okay, so, WAN is blocked, clients are forced offline.
20:41 < Grum> they have to have been logged in before
20:41 < TkTech> Two kids using previously-logged in launchers (by Dad) want to play on the lan.
20:41 < Grum> should be fine?
20:42 < ShaRose> ^
20:42 < TkTech> Yay
20:43 < Grum> they can just play in offline mode but that still lets lan-work
20:43 < Grum> s/-/ /
20:43 < TkTech> There are going to be lots of little edge cases with this, I think.
20:43 < Grum> not really sure how
20:43 < Grum> if you play offline you just so not get a session from the login-server
20:43 < TkTech> User logs into server, user changes name, user logs back into that same server using another launcher.
20:43 < Grum> so the session server will not let you play anywhere
20:43 < TkTech> Does the sever limit connections by username or by account
20:44 < Grum> it doesnt limit connections at all
20:44 < Grum> active sessionkey, just like it is now, per mc (NOT mojang) account
20:44 < ShaRose> I thought it did limit one user per name though
20:45 < TkTech> It's supposed to, hence why I see a problem.
20:45 < Grum> nah it just remembers the last session id i think
20:45 < Grum> TkTech: what is the 'problem' ?
20:46 < TkTech> Grum: Do I assume correctly that you'll be able to change, create, or delete usernames under this one master account?
20:46 < Grum> wait, lets the the terminology right
20:46 < Grum> what do you consider 'username'
20:46 < Grum> because right not it is: 1 mc account per mojang account
20:46 < TkTech> A username is the name that shows up over your head in Minecraft, the account is the mojang account you logged in with.
20:46 < Grum> it will be 'multiple mc accounts' per mojang account
20:47 < TkTech> So each must be purchased and attached?
20:47 < Grum> yes
20:47 < TkTech> Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh. 
20:47 < SinZ> Also, is login.minecraft.net getting a revamp for the launcher?
20:47 < Grum> yes
20:47 < SinZ> including more error messages?
20:47 < Grum> or rather; we'll be making a new api on it; the current one will remain working but only for 1.5.x
20:47 < Grum> (basically the old launcher)
20:49 < Grum> and you're going to need the new launcher to have any chance of starting the 1.6 and up
20:50 < SinZ> including with the snapshots?
20:50 < Grum> yes
20:51 < Grum> whch is why there are no snapshots
20:51 < Grum> as the launcher is not existing
20:51 < SinZ> it'll be fun to watch the modding community react to the launcher
20:52 < Grum> i guess stuff will adapt and soon it wont be used anymore
20:52 < Grum> best fun is, we can break everything for people not using our launcher ... as we can push out changes whenever we please
20:53 < Grum> you'll get the update when you run the launcher for the second time at the worst-worst-case
20:55 < Grum> the best solution for modders is actually sit between the launcher and the start of mc
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20:58 < SinZ> is the launcher going to have modding support in it? or is that the job for the plugin API when it is usable
20:58 < Grum> no support at all
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21:15 < ShaRose> Grum on that note, will you be letting the forge guys know what the MC side changes will be, since they do a relaunch?
21:17 < ShaRose> in other news, once again I try and see if there are any new headsets out that I might want to use to replace my G930