05:34 -!- TkTech changed the topic of #mcdevs to: A haunt for developers working on projects related to Minecraft | Website & Rules: http://mcdevs.org | Wiki: http://wiki.vg | Channel is publicly logged as of Feb.25/13
05:34 < umby24> It took several code examples for me to get a basic grasp..
05:34 -!- mode/#mcdevs [-o TkTech] by ChanServ
05:35 < umby24> and even then i ended up just translating someone elses code to my language of choice at the time.
05:35 < umby24> I was actually pretty close to one part of it, was just missing a setting or two.
05:36 < SinZ> TkTech: Link to the logs / statistics?
05:36 < TkTech> SinZ: Not up yet, a beta feature of Not-001.
05:36 < SinZ> ah
05:37 < TkTech> Pretty logs optionally available to anyone (must be enabled by a channel op), and full text searching for select channels (limited resources)
05:37 < SinZ> will have fun playing around with that in my channel <3
05:39 < TkTech> (Sponsored by http://myredis.com / WedTM)
05:39 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: very cloudy page.
05:40 < SinZ> WedTM is cool like that
05:40 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: I think that's a joke but I'm missing it
05:40 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: no I just thought the page looked simple and modern
05:40 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: Also, I'm travelling all this week. Know the last date to upgrade battlecruisers?
05:40 < SinZ> good to see Spout is using notifico now
05:41 < TkTech> Yeah, spout went all-in, nice little spike on the projects graph.
05:41 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: well sometime in summer, but training to level 5 takes 25 days (just for 4 to 5 fully min/maxed).
05:42 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: 25 days for BATTLECRUISERS? Really? 
05:42 < TkTech> For battleships, okay. Seems a bit excessive for battlecruisers...
05:42 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: 20 or 25, my memory fail me.
05:44 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: you also want to have all the racial cruisers at 3
05:44 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: I have that already I think for Gallente and Amarr 
05:46 < SinZ> TkTech: how does a channel op enable the logging?
05:46 < SinZ> well, how will a channel op enable logging
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05:46 < TkTech> SinZ: You cannot at the moment.
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05:46 < TkTech> SinZ: But you just need to have your networks version of +o (as specified in the 005 message), and the bot needs to be in the channel.
05:47 < TkTech> SinZ: Then you can PM it and "set logging 1" or as a shortcut "enable logging"
05:47 < SinZ> ah, ok
05:48 < TkTech> You'll get a URL that looks like http://n.tkte.ch/s/channels/irc.freenode.net/<channel>
05:48 < TkTech> But I'll allow you to specify a CNAME so you can use your own URL.
05:52 <+Prf_Jakob> sleep time
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06:49 < Gregor> Et voila, encryption is a go ^^
06:49 < Gregor> BEND TO MY CRUEL WILL, MINECRAFT! MUAHAHAHAHA
06:50 < TkTech> He's snapped, he has.
06:50 < TkTech> Gregor: Remember to blog about the problems you encountered :)
06:51 < TkTech> Every dev should blog about every little thing. </opinion>
06:51 < Gregor> I was just about to muse about whether one needs to be registered to edit wiki.vg...
06:51 < TkTech> Gregor: Even better. You can just sign up and edit.
06:52 < Gregor> Other than just "Read the damned docs, Gregor", I only had one hiccup *shrugs*
06:54 < Gregor> I'll also barf up this source somewhere once it's a bit more vetted. Probably the only C+libtomcrypt implementation X-D
06:55 < umby24> could be a good contribution to the wiki as a implementation of the encryption
06:55 < umby24> as a sample for others and all
06:57 < Gregor> I'm doing a somewhat (read: entirely) insane project ^^´, trying to write a protocol-version converter so you can use unequal client and server versions (modulo incompatible features which get scrubbed from the packets).
06:57 < Gregor> But yeah, the handshake.c has a nice, brief description of the encryption (minus online mode) for both client and server handshake :)
06:59 < Not-001> [wiki.vg] Edit by Gregor to Protocol Encryption -> http://tinyurl.com/aedov4r
07:00 < Gregor> Mmm, I see you have spies *sage nod*
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07:07 < umby24> awesome.
07:08 < umby24> blog posting to website and tumblr about minecraft bot: complete.
07:08 < umby24> now for bedtime.
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13:47 <+sadimusi> Gregor: you should talk to pdelvo, he built exactly the same thing
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15:24 <+pdelvo> And it works! :D
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16:04 < Gregor> sadimusi, pdelvo: Yes, I'm aware. But it's in C♯, looks like it's only been tested on Windows/Visual Studio, and I'm not going to be the one to work out all the inevitable bugs making it work on Mono.
16:04 < Gregor> It was my inspiration though X-D
16:04 < jast> a ♯, how fancy
16:04 < Gregor> jast: I do ♥ the Unicode.
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16:06 <+pdelvo> There is a problem related to mono. the encryption. I use .net methods for it which are implemented in mono, but behave different. Using a different library could solve it, but would make it slower
16:06 < jast> yeah, I � Unicode, too
16:07 < Gregor> pdelvo: I'm not placing blame, just being stubbornly anti-Micro$oft. I have poked around the code, to the very limited degree that I know C♯ (which is "I know Java and it's the same language but less stupid")
16:08 < Gregor> Err, C♯ being the "less stupid" in that comparison.
16:08 < jast> of course
16:08 < jast> anyone who isn't completely incidental would agree with that
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16:09 <+pdelvo> please stop this :o Everytime this topic comes up this makes someone cry at the end 
16:09 < Gregor> Heheheh
16:09 < Gregor> I did an internship at Microsoft Research y'know.
16:09 < Gregor> Never Again.™
16:10 < Gregor> Product group decided they didn't like my project and axed it after months of work, pretty much killing the whole experience.
16:10 < Gregor> After that I've pretty much decided I'm not going to touch Microsoft with a seventy-thousand-foot pole.
16:11 < jast> I don't mind making people cry, if it's over something like a programming language
16:13 < edk> making people cry can be necessary
16:13 < edk> especially if they're java programmers
16:13 < Gregor> Anyway, I'm still making the problem worse by not giving two shits whether my C code works on Windows, so I can't take the high ground, only the "if Unix was good enough for grandpa it's good enough for me" grounds.
16:14 <+pdelvo> I warned you! :o
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16:27 < Gregor> I feel like that flamewar ended far too easily.
16:27 < Gregor> So, shall our next subject be religion? Or, more contentiously, operating systems?
16:28 < jast> it's not a flamewar if everyone agrees
16:28 < jast> my least favourite operating system is emacs
16:29 < edk> +1
16:29 < Gregor> Emacs would be a perfectly good operating system if there was a decent text editor for it.
16:29 < edk> Actually, my least favourite OS is mIRC
16:30 < cindy_k> lol
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16:59 < Gregor> Actually, pdelvo: I don't suppose you have or know where to get super-ancient copies of the /server/? Stupidly enough, that's what's been the hardest thing for me in testing. Versions from before b1.8 seem to have vanished from the Internet >_>
17:00 <+pdelvo> hm no sorry :/
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17:02 < Gregor> Beta 1.8 is NOT OLDE ENOUGH ^^
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17:03 <+sadimusi> isn't there a project providing bdiffs for older minecraft versions?
17:03 < Gregor> sadimusi: Only the client, as far as I've been able to tell.
17:03 < Gregor> (That's how I got the client all the way back to indev :) )
17:12 <+pdelvo> but this should be enough. the client knows all packets too. it sends them, or must be able to read them
17:12 < Gregor> Yeah, but the client never, e.g., sends chunk info.
17:13 < Gregor> I've tested with earlier clients, and I can get them to connect to newer servers, but I don't consider that an especially complete test *shrugs*
17:13 < Gregor> Besides, my ultimate goal was a nostalgia-server, not a nostalgia-client ^^´
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18:48 < Not-001> [wiki.vg] Edit by Thinkofdeath to Pre-release protocol -> Error
18:50 < Thinkofdeath> Did I break it?
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19:21 < Valdiralita> hey
19:22 < Valdiralita> md_5: i doubt you care about this but the error log wants me to show this to you: http://hastebin.com/vagopukaco.avrasm
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21:21 <+md_5> Valdiralita hehe, only old versions tell it to show to me personally :p
21:22 < Valdiralita> is a mcpc bukkit version
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23:46 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: Up for a wee little OpenTTD?
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--- Day changed mer. févr. 27 2013
00:00 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: syre
00:00 <+Prf_Jakob> sure*
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00:12 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: Think anyone else is up for it?
00:14 < TkTech> (Your server isn't up)
00:14 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: is for me..
00:14 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: Dynamic IP?
00:14 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: probably what does the address resolve to?
00:14 < TkTech> Nothing
00:15 <+Prf_Jakob> err?
00:15 < TkTech> The IP you gave me last time goes nowhere
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00:19 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: if you want, I can change as well.
00:20 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: It's been awhile, new game okay?
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00:20 <+Prf_Jakob> sure
00:21 <+Prf_Jakob> temperate, snowy or desert?
00:21 < TkTech> Whatever, your choice
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19:21 < rom1504> superjoe: my bot can now avoid bedrock (I used a star with a very simple getNeighbor function) :)
19:22 < superjoe> rom1504, very cool!
19:22 < superjoe> maybe mineflayer-scaffold should be updated to use A*
19:23 < rom1504> but I'm having a problem with water and sand : If the sand fall and water follow it, it seems mineflayer cannot see there is water (and think it is sand)
19:23 < rom1504> I'll try and make a simple test case for this
19:23 < superjoe> I have observed this problem too
19:23 < superjoe> maybe we can find a workaround
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19:25 < rom1504> superjoe: you can look at this code for the avoid bedrock thing : https://github.com/rom1504/rbot/blob/master/avoidBedrock.js , I took the index.js file of mineflayer-navigate and removed a lot of things
19:40 < superjoe> cool
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21:54 < bobness> ..is the inventory setup for the Brewing Stand not known, or just not on the wiki in the Inventory page?
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22:18 <+pdelvo> You could put it there :)
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22:39 < bobness> *nod*  if I can figure it out, I plan to.  I just wasn't sure if the order was known yet.  
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23:26 < Valdiralita> where is SirCmpwn? havent seen him the last days ...
23:27 < edk> He's banned from this channel, iirc
23:27 < edk> yep
23:27 < Valdiralita> okay ..
23:27 < Valdiralita> why?
23:28 < dexter0> He is still in #craft.net
23:28 < Valdiralita> thanks
23:29 < edk> I can dig out the log if you really want, but the condensed version is "the same reason he's banned everywhere else"
23:30 < Valdiralita> nah, its ok
23:30 < Valdiralita> thanks anyway
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--- Day changed jeu. févr. 28 2013
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03:32 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: I have never imported contacts, we have no people in common, I've never mentioned you; yet Twitter still recommends following you/
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04:11 <+AndrewPH> TkTech: facebook has managed to do this with people that I have seen once, maybe twice, on the internet, who have literally nothing in common with me.
04:31 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: scary...
04:34 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: not even fCraft?
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04:35 < dexter0> Are the channel logs available yet?
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05:55 < bobness> When replying to a rejection packet, do I just send the same packet back?
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09:39 < Not-001> [wiki.vg] Edit by Dx to Protocol -> http://tinyurl.com/boozp2j
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09:53 < dx> huh
09:55 < dx> i know i don't usually pay a lot of attention to this channel, but it's the first time i see Not-001 reporting edits
09:56 < dx> and looking at my logs, they are rather rare lately
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11:24 <+md_5> dx been going for a month or 2
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18:04 < SupaYoshi> Hey
18:05 < SupaYoshi> The mark2 channel is empty
18:05 < SupaYoshi> Im using mark2, howeever my backup files are only 69 bytes big when they are saved after a shutdown?
18:05 < SupaYoshi> How can i config the backup for mark2?
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19:21 < dx> >Channel is publicly logged as of Feb.25/13
19:21 < dx> exactly what i needed :D
19:22 < dx> wait, damn, i need logs for exactly that day.. and i can't find a public link
19:22 < dx> oh well, pastebin
19:22 < Gregor> Is it really "publicly" logged if we don't know where these supposedly "public" logs are...
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19:34 < Not-001> [wiki.vg] Edit by Dx to Protocol -> http://tinyurl.com/cp8desn
19:34 < dx> damn i'm going to be late for the doctor, just because i felt it was needed to clarify a wiki change
19:34  * dx grabs a stack of ender pearls to reach the place faster
19:35 < Gregor> <dx> Oof oof oof oof oof oof oof oof oof oof ugh.  * dx hit the ground too hard.
19:36 < dx> ;_;
19:37 < dx> oh, before i leave, if someone finds any information about minecraft realms, post it please
19:38 < dx> mostly, where it is hosted and if there are any clues of particular infrastructure
19:39 < dx> the user interface to create those servers is so dumbed down that they
19:39 < dx> *they've probably found a way to make servers scale magically infinitely
19:44 < dexter0> If it is some sort of Mojang provided hosting, I wonder how popular it will be if it does not support mods.
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19:56 < Gregor> Hm, how were those given access notified of their access, I wonder...
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20:41 < Morrolan> dexter0 - Quite popular with families who just want a server to play on, without having to, well, know how to host a server?
20:42 < dexter0> good point
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22:25 < Not-001> [wiki.vg] Edit by Sleaker to Pre-release protocol -> Error
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22:43 < Not-001> [wiki.vg] Edit by Maxpowuh to ChargedMinersClassic -> Error
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23:39 < Zatorg> has anyone tried implementing a differential backup solution for MC maps? i.e. have the original mapdata -> do diffs of it -> update the original once in a while. this would make so much sense if the map was a pregen'ed large one (e.g. 20k x 20k)
23:39 < Zatorg> (we're preparing to start up an smp server with a rather large map.)
23:40 < Zatorg> simply doing binary diffs like a good sysadmin makes sense. i tried googling, but have not found anything interesting with minecraft as one of the keywords. so might use a generic solution. was maybe hoping there'd be a plugin for that.
23:40 < jast> yeah, I started implementing that, but got bored
23:40 < jast> it's pretty tediout because you have to actually parse NBT and stuff
23:41 < Zatorg> thing is, as i understand from very limited exposure to its code, bukkit / vanilla mc (bukkit uses vanilla code in that part i think) already updates only the chunks that were changed since last write.
23:41 < edk> I would have thought the map format bit would be the annoying one
23:41 < jast> well, you can _mostly_ ignore the map format if you just create binary diffs
23:41 < jast> except you need to uncompress the chunks first, but that's not terribly complicated
23:41 < edk> well rsync is clever enough to do that all by its little old self, it can tell when files haven't changed at all
23:41 < edk> iirc
23:42 < Zatorg> yes, uncompressing for doing binary diff would be necessary
23:42 < edk> yeah
23:42 < jast> rsync can't magically figure out what to uncompress before generating deltas
23:42 < edk> I mean the files that aren't changed
23:42 < jast> yeah, but files are by region. so if a region changes, chances are you need to store the full region
23:42 < edk> mm, true.
23:43 < edk> hell, you could do time machine's shitty hardlinking trick if it weren't for that, I guess
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23:44 < edk> <jast> yeah, I started implementing that, but got bored <- there are pretty much unlimited project ideas of which I could say that
23:44 < edk> uh, take that sentence, add grammar to it, then read it
23:45 < jast> I had a few thousand lines of code before I quit
23:45 < jast> not terribly exciting code, though
23:45 < Zatorg> jast: were you writing it as a plugin, or external tool?
23:45 < jast> tool
23:45 < edk> what would it be a plugin to?
23:45 < jast> hell will freeze over before I write for the JVM
23:45 < jast> unless someone pays me
23:45 < Zatorg> edk: automated differential backups - well a bukkit plugin in my case :)
23:46 < jast> you could wire the external tool to a filesystem watcher
23:46 < jast> minimal overhead
23:46 < Zatorg> jast: i'm writing for Android, can't say i enjoy java though, but..
23:46 < Zatorg> mhm
23:46 < edk> what two things do backups protect against?
23:46 < jast> oh yeah, there's that
23:46 < jast> I've been considering doing android stuff
23:46 < jast> perhaps if I use scala or something, it'll be slightly less aggravating
23:47 < edk> I considered doing android stuff, then I tried to start making an app and decided I couldn't be bothered to java
23:47 < Zatorg> oh sorry, didn't add one other crucial bit: for me, any backups => automatically imply - offsite backups.
23:47 < edk> sure
23:47 < edk> how is that crucial in the context of whether or not it should be a bukkit plugin?
23:48 < Zatorg> it would be a map autosaver and backup system two-in-one (not sure of phrasing)
23:48 < edk> to me, the issue with a bukkit plugin is that if something goes wrong with the server, it's also gone wrong with the thing making the backup
23:48 < edk> minecraft already has autosave
23:48 < Zatorg> true, true..
23:48 < jast> in other news... been compiling rust for an hour or so
23:48 < jast> still going strong
23:48 < edk> rust looks yucky
23:48 < Zatorg> edk: thing is, i'm really new to mc dev stuff. but as i understand, one firstly needs to stop autosaving before attempting to back up mapdata, as what's on disk at a given atomic point in time is not necessarily
23:49 < Zatorg> consistent.
23:49 < edk> supposedly you can write bukkit plugins with python, which is nice
23:49 < edk> Zatorg, that's what server wrappers are for
23:49 < Zatorg> but i agree, bukkit fails => hells breaks
23:49 < conehead> Not particularly interesting, but a list given by the Minecraft Realms create dialog of server locations you can select from http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=CdxuxRnk
23:49 < jast> the last backup solution I had to deal with that was written in python was full of bugs
23:49 < jast> you know, the "doesn't actually write the backups anywhere" kinds of bugs
23:50 < edk> that seems a problem with the person writing the software
23:50 < jast> also the "eats craploads of RAM for big files" kinds
23:50 < edk> as far as I know, python doesn't have any inherent problems with writing files
23:50 < Zatorg> conehead: hehe searching for keywords 'minecraft distributed <..>' brought me to http://cyber.felk.cvut.cz/research/theses/papers/240.pdf ("Distributed Server for the Game `Minecraft' - Czech Technical..") -> #mcdevs was mentioned in that paper.. that's how i got here.
23:50 < jast> sshh, I'm ranting here
23:50 < edk> oh ok then
23:51 < jast> so, anyway, don't use duplicity
23:51 < edk> that should be easy enough
23:52 < edk> since I'd never heard of it up until now
23:52 < Zatorg> i agree, writing an mc plugin for backups doesn't sound like a clever idea. however - citing self:
23:52 < Zatorg> "thing is, as i understand from very limited exposure to its code, bukkit / vanilla mc (bukkit uses vanilla code in that part i think) already updates only the chunks that were changed since last write."
23:52 < edk> I'm not sure how that helps you
23:52 < Zatorg> can anybody bother to succintly explain to me how MC server saves mapdata to disk?
23:52 < jast> what I'd care about most for map backups is incremental backups
23:53 < jast> so, that helps exactly not at all
23:53 < Zatorg> jast: well then you rely on you having all the previous diffs no?
23:53 < edk> if you have a brain, you take a full backup every now and then
23:53 < Zatorg> (which of course makes sense)
23:53 < Zatorg> ofc
23:53 < edk> you can also diff backwards from now instead of forwards from the beginning of time
23:54 < jast> yeah, like rdiff-backup does
23:54 < jast> oh fuck me
23:54 < Zatorg> ok, i'm new. damn it, i should know that..
23:54 < jast> the notebook's battery charger has, once again, decided to discharge the battery instead of charging it
23:55 < edk> that sounds less than ideal
23:55 < edk> and by "less than ideal" i mean really shitty
23:56 < jast> at least this time I noticed before it died
23:56 < jast> okay, still deciding to discharge after I removed the charger for a moment
23:57 < edk> your notebook's power management doesn't sound like the brightest of sparks
23:58 < jast> my 
23:58 < jast> (gah)
23:58 < jast> my money is on "hardware is getting senile"
--- Day changed ven. mars 01 2013
00:00 < jast> well screw that
00:00 < jast> good night
00:00 < Zatorg> dmesg | tail might have something to tell you no? maybe not..
00:00 < Zatorg> nn
00:01 < jast> no, ACPI thinks it's charging
00:01 < Zatorg> oh well then, yes, maybe senile :)
00:01 < jast> I'm fairly sure it's a defect in the battery itself
00:01 -!- Thinkofdeath is now known as Thinkofdeath_off
00:01 < jast> I just just chuck this piece of junk and get something new, I suppose
00:01 < jast> ... and now I'm actually leaving. :)
00:02 < edk> bye
00:03 < TkTech> Gregor: Funny enough, you'd know if you read the logs.
00:03 < TkTech> Gregor: That's up there as a disclaimer due to freenode policies to notify of any logging.
00:04 < TkTech> Gregor: It's a beta feature of the Not-001 bot not yet available to the public.
00:05 < TkTech> Zatorg: Neat, thanks for that paper link. Always interested in academia + minecraft
00:05 < edk> there are probably like a million people with private logs anyway, I don't really see why it's such a big deal
00:05 < Zatorg> (something something dead horse) i'd simply be interested to utilize the fact that MC might already know which chunks need saving - so a backup system could e.g. only save changed chunks since last save.. but might be a dangerous way to do it like that
00:05 < Zatorg> indeed TkTech :)
00:05 < edk> and by "like a million" I mean not really anything like that amount
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00:05 < edk> Zatorg, you'd have to get pretty deep in minecraft's guts to do that, I think
00:05 < edk> bukkit doesn't expose the needed API
00:05 < TkTech> dx: It's reported 205 wiki changes over 3 months
00:06 < Zatorg> i think i got the part where it does that edk
00:06 < Zatorg> bukkit seems to use native code in that part
00:06 < TkTech> dx: Minus a week or two where that script wasn't running
00:06 < Zatorg> at least that's what the comments indicate
00:06 < Zatorg> i'm just.. not feeling confident, thought someone else might have tried sth like that.
00:07 < Zatorg> and by 'native code' i mean obscurely named variables and disassembled raw code
00:07 < Zatorg> but might totally off the mark here.
00:07 < Zatorg> *might be
00:08 < Zatorg> hm drunk gf back from work, multitasking, not good
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00:43 < Gregor> TkTech: You should update the topic to read "Channel is publicly logged as of Feb.25/13: Check the log for the URL"
00:49 < Kyle> Usually, if the channel isn't +s, I assume someone is publically logging
00:49 < Kyle> even then, someone is privately logging, 
00:49 < Gregor> Well, everyone logs privately *shrugs*
00:49 < Kyle> It's really no difference, because I'll post sniplets of logs on demand :p
00:50 < Gregor> Yup.
00:50 < Gregor> I have a public logbot that I got VISCERAL complaints for bringing into a channel (with the chanop's permission!) once >_O
00:50 < Kyle> heh
00:51 < Gregor> I've vowed to publish my private logs as a nice "eff you" once it's a few years in.
01:02 < TkTech> Kyle: Doesn't matter what you assume, freenode rules are freenode rules :)
01:03 < TkTech> (And we are a registered freenode group)
01:05 < Kyle> TkTech: they arent rules
01:05 < Kyle> that specific part is a guideline
01:05 < Kyle> recommended 
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01:33 < TkTech> Kyle: You seem to be right, but I've been in #freenode long enough to see some pretty strong reactions to doing it without notice.
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05:53 < SinZ> is it me, or has b.wiki.vg not been checking the newer snapshots
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06:28 < Not-001> [wiki.vg] Edit by Umby24 to Client List -> http://tinyurl.com/bzv4dmo
06:28 < umby24> ^ one more coming
06:29 < umby24> forgot to add link
06:29 < Not-001> [wiki.vg] Edit by Umby24 to Client List -> http://tinyurl.com/bfljq6p
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07:27 < lahwran> hey folksies
07:27 < lahwran> I'd like to write a clientside logging tool that logs chat, and maybe other stuff, how hard would this be to do in python/twisted as a proxy?
07:28 < lahwran> assuming close familiarity with python but near zero familiarity with mc's protocol
07:28 < lahwran> I know it uses packets with ids
07:28 < lahwran> that's it
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07:38 < umby24> hm.
07:39 < umby24> http://wiki.vg/Client_List
07:39 < umby24> a few open source bots there that support current minecraft that are written in python
07:39 < umby24> two of which with twisted
07:39 < umby24> may give you some idea
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08:14 < lahwran> sweet, twistedbot looks viable
08:20 < lahwran> hm, I might also try spout ... I heard it's coming along pretty well
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12:28 < eddyb> Alan: the wiki linked in the topic has lots of resources to get you started :P
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13:10 < Not-001> [wiki.vg] Edit by Wulfspider to Client List -> http://tinyurl.com/c2rovgb
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13:35 < Not-001> [wiki.vg] Edit by SinZ to Client List -> http://tinyurl.com/cfjctnd
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03:15 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: Going to ream my ISP when I get home on Sunday.
03:16 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: Got the bill yesterday, $ 285.36 
03:24 < SinZ> 0.o
03:24 < SinZ> dafuq did you do
03:25 < TkTech> It's funny, because their own website shows drastically different figures than this bill.
03:25 < TkTech> It also says "Bandwith notification sent in the last three months: NONE"
03:25 < TkTech> Normal month-to-month service is $118.59
03:26 < TkTech> (This is internet only, with a 300GB "cap")
03:26 < TkTech> Each GB above that is $1
03:26 < TkTech> The bill claims I used 147.58GB above that cap.
03:26 < TkTech> +$40 in random fees
03:26 < SinZ> should of been warned about being close to your cap
03:27 < TkTech> Apparently, 380,567.14 bytes (figure reported on my router and their website) is 300GB + 147.58GB
03:27 < TkTech> Right. Hence, "Usage notifications and alerts sent over the last three months: NONE"
03:27 < TkTech> And why I'm going to ream them out when I get home.
03:28 < TkTech> Er, MB, ovbviously.
04:01 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: lol wut
04:04 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: Welcome to Canada
04:11 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: insane..
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07:18 < Connor1301> hmm
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07:43 < Connor1301> whats up
07:44 < SinZ> nm, u
07:46 < Connor1301> nm, u?
07:47 < SinZ> nothing much
07:47 < Connor1301> oh ok
07:48 < Connor1301> im not a good texter
07:48 < Connor1301> nm here
07:48 < Connor1301> im learning
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08:39 < Connor1301> whats going on
08:48 <+md_5> not much
08:49 < Connor1301> ok
09:00 < dx> is it philosophy time in #mcdevs?
09:01 < AlphaBlend> you tell me
09:03 < dx> huh
09:03 < dx> one of the proxies linked from the wiki has this feature: "onlineModeExceptions - in online mode, this is usernames which are not checked"
09:03 < dx> i wonder if the #mcdevs admins would prefer to have that kind of proxies 'censored'
09:05 < nickelpro> Why?
09:06 < SinZ> this is an open source of information, having the ability to turn online mode off is part of the protocol, on the event of login.minecraft.net and/or session.minecraft.net being down
09:06 < dx> this is a selective way to turn online mode
09:07 < dx> it's only used to allow piracy
09:07 < nickelpro> Or to allow bots through
09:07 < nickelpro> The far more common option
09:08 < SinZ> dx: its built into the vannila server
09:08 < SinZ> mostly
09:08 < SinZ> but allowing bots through is a *really* nice thing to have
09:08 < SinZ> or aliases
09:08 < dx> yeah, gotta agree
09:08 < SinZ> though aliases can be controlled ingame
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09:09 < dx> it's just that every other proxy/plugin/mod that implemented that feature got censored in the past from forums like the bukkit ones
09:10 < nickelpro> Good thing we're not bukkit
09:10 < dx> lol
09:10 < nickelpro> Unless you're going to buy an account for every bot running on a server
09:10 < nickelpro> you need a feature to allow the bots through
09:11 < dx> yeah, i wasn't considering bots
09:11 < nickelpro> It's a legitimate use case, no reason to disallow information on it
09:11 < nickelpro> just because it can also be used for piracy
09:11 < dx> when i said that i was thinking "what's the point other than that?"
09:11 < dx> so don't mind me.
09:13 < dx> out of curiosity, what do people use bots for nowadays? i've worked in one in the past, but found that server side mods to spawn NPCs were a cleaner solution
09:13 < nickelpro> When you don't control the server
09:14 < SinZ> or when you don't have the ability to modify the server on the fly
09:14 < dx> but just as a player, what can you do that's useful?
09:14 < nickelpro> Tons of stuff, the Civcraft team is doing some really cool stuff
09:15 < nickelpro> The built an entire ingame economy using nothing but bots
09:22 < SinZ> dx: theres always chat commands
09:23 < SinZ> and the fun in making the bots
09:25 < dx> heh
09:26 < dx> yeah.. chat commands was pretty much all my bot managed to do
09:26 < SinZ> could also have it as a player detector for a door
09:27 < SinZ> put some redstone in, so the bot can toggle a lever when a player is within 5 blocks of the door
09:27 < SinZ> and could implement white/blacklists to the door
09:27 < dx> it was mostly useless stuff, there was one that showed a list of 'online' players (i think /list didn't exist back then), but it showed only nearby player entities
09:27 < dx> SinZ: hmm, interesting
09:28 < dx> but really impractical if you own the server
09:28 < dx> the idea of the extra cpu usage / chunks loaded all the time annoyed me :D
09:29 < dx> and it really couldn't handle a lot of load back then
09:32 < SinZ> dx: its only impractical if you have a *very* good modding platform on the server
09:34 < dx> SinZ: writing bukkit plugins is pretty easy IMO
09:34 < dx> not sure what you mean by very good modding platform 
09:34 < SinZ> dynamic runtime
09:36 < SinZ> and having a bukkit plugin for stuff this minor imo is more overhead to the server
09:59 < Connor1301> who knows stieve
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11:36 < Connor1301> wazup
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11:50 < Connor1301> hey
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12:56 < Connor1301> hi
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18:57 < ellisvlad> hi
18:59 < ellisvlad> anyone on?
19:16 < shoghicp> yes
19:16 < shoghicp> ellisvlad: ping ;)
19:21 < ellisvlad> hi there
19:22 < shoghicp> do you wanted to ask anything?
19:22 < ellisvlad> Just found this irc ;) Looked pretty useful since I am making a minecraft server ;)
19:22 < shoghicp> "making" => writing the source code?
19:23 < ellisvlad> yes :P
19:23 < shoghicp> :D
19:23 < ellisvlad> I'm not some noob who is "making" a minecraft server using the default software or bukkit :P
19:24 < ellisvlad> I am rewriting everything :D :S
19:24 < ellisvlad> and now I have hit a problem...
19:24 < shoghicp> http://www.wiki.vg/Server_List
19:25 < shoghicp> I've done a MC client
19:25 < ellisvlad> Yup, I've been on all the sites :P
19:25 < shoghicp> and now I'm doing a MCPE server
19:25 < ellisvlad> read up on everything...yet I can;t fix my problem :/
19:26 < ellisvlad> I do have a nice and bulky feature and plans list which I won't bore you with just yet... you might be able to help me though? :D
19:29 < ellisvlad> Ok so, this is the problem...
19:29 < ellisvlad> I am not too far into development, I have the server pingable and connectable.
19:30 < ellisvlad> when you connect to the server, it authenticates and enables encryption
19:30 < ellisvlad> then the player is spawned and the general settings are sent
19:30 < ellisvlad> However
19:31 < ellisvlad> I am really confused on how to send the chunks to the client
19:41 < shoghicp> sec
19:41 < shoghicp> I was out
19:41 < shoghicp> I'm going to read everything
19:41 < ellisvlad> ;) ok :P
19:42 < shoghicp> you've to use the 0x38 packet
19:43 < ellisvlad> hmm, if I use 0x33, will that do nothing?
19:43 < shoghicp> yeah, also 0x33
19:43 < ellisvlad> I will try 0x38, nad come back in 5 mins if that fails ;)
19:44 < ellisvlad> thanks
19:44 < shoghicp> small block changes and explosions use other packets
19:44 < ellisvlad> ...well I will come back if it works too, but still ;)
19:44 < shoghicp> (after you've sent that part of the map)
19:44 < shoghicp> ok!
19:44 < ellisvlad> ...I will just stay here
19:45 < shoghicp> ping me
19:57 < ellisvlad> ok.. :P
19:57 < shoghicp> nah
19:57 < shoghicp> I saw it
19:57 < shoghicp> sometimes I change tabs
19:59 < ellisvlad> Hmm
20:00 < ellisvlad> I don't think I am formatting my chunk data correctly :/
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20:05 < shoghicp> sections of 16x16x16
20:07 < ellisvlad> ah
20:07 < ellisvlad> I was sendning 16x256x16
20:07 < ellisvlad> I'll try that
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20:13 < shoghicp> 16 sections of 16x16x16
20:14 < ellisvlad> bb in a sec, food ;)
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06:55 < dreadiscool> Hi
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06:55 < dreadiscool> If I set up a RRDNS, is it possible for me to distribute IPs based on PoP?
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18:45 < dav1d> clonejo: ping
18:45 <+clonejo> dav1d: pong
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23:25 < mobers> hi guys... I'm working with the MCP and can't figure out how to actually send a packet to the server the player is connected to... anyone able to point me in the right direction?
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23:27 < Krenair> player.sendQueue.addToSendQueue(packet);
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23:29 < mobers> alright, that solves that; do you know how I can form a packet as well? 
23:39 < mobers> there are a lot of Packet classes (e.g. Packet18Animate, etc); should I be using those?
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23:45 < Krenair> mobers, what do you want to send?
23:45 < mobers> let's say, for example, i want to tell the server that the client is crouching, or breaking a block
23:46 < mobers> I don't know where to start forming those packets in java
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03:10 < mobles> hi guys, i'm working with the MCP; where can I check packets that are incoming from the server?
03:13 <+clonejo> mobles: There should be some MCP related channel on Freenode
03:13 < mobles> ah, ok
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03:42 <+clonejo> TkTech: Do you think we should be more explicit in the topic about this?
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03:46 < dx> clonejo: it doesn't happen really often tbh
03:46 <+clonejo> dx: sure
03:48 < dx> but it's true that the focus of the channel is slightly implicit
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06:16 < Connor1301> whats up
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06:55 < Connor1301> um grum why do you keep ping timeouting
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08:43 < Connor1301> hey deaygo
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09:03 < Connor1301> so many joins and quits but no talk
09:12 < SinZ> its IRC, its not always fast paced...
09:16 <+md_5> channel has been a bit inactive of late
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12:08 < Connor1301> hi
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12:22 < Connor1301> omg
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12:55 < dx> i'm starting to think Connor1301 is a bot that makes random comments when people join or quit
13:00 < edk> I'm starting to think the quality of the channel would be improved if it were banned or otherwise silenced
13:01 < dx> that would be okay if it was a bot
13:01 < edk> if it's not a bot, maybe it'll realise the possibility of this happening, and stop doing it
13:02 < edk> humans who insist on acting like bots are no better than the real thing
13:02 < dx> heh
13:02 < dx> i must say i'm slightly annoyed at seeing 'activity' in this channel and it turns out to be something so pointless
13:03 < dx> but i wouldn't go as far as threatening to ban
13:03 < dx> i mean the channel rules say that the ban privileges are limited to cool guys like sircmpwn
13:04 < dx> (note: that's a very liberal non-serious interpretation of the rules)
13:04 < edk> for a second there I thought you were talking about the privilege to give out bans
13:04 < dx> heh
13:04 < dx> yeah, people rarely talk about the privilege of being banned
13:04 < Deaygo> What about the privilege of banning? :D
13:05 < edk> when you think about it it's quite an achievement to continuously upset so many people Tk bans you
13:05 < dx> edk: that's exactly my point!
13:07 < dx> anyway, i said that threats aren't needed, so
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13:07 < dx> GOD DAMMIT
13:07 < edk> what we can take away from this is that bots have shitty internet connections
13:07 < dx> lol
13:08 < jast> and use web interfaces?
13:08 < dx> he timeouted the exact moment i was going to write the message telling him politely to stop
13:08 < edk> I didn't look at his userhost
13:10 < dx> so, basically the only activity we've had today is complaining about someone who sends pointless messages that aren't relevant to the channel
13:11 < dx> i can't think of anything minecraft-related to talk about right now, but i just remembered i had to tell someone that there's a critical flaw in the irc rules page
13:11 < dx> http://mcdevs.org/irc/rules <-- first paragraph says 'exeception'
13:12 < edk> exeception
13:12 < edk> that was such a critical error I didn't notice it until I looked again
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13:13 < dx> it's such a critical error that it uses stealth techniques to stay in the page as long as possible
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13:48 <+ammar2> TkTech: looks like your git repo isn't synced up with the actual page at mcdevs.org, it still says "CIA bot" in the rules page even though its been updated to notifico in the repo
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05:36 < lahwran> how does minecraft tell if a server is up? it sends that one packet, right? but is there anything more to it?
05:36 < lahwran> do you have to do anything special these days?
05:36 < lahwran> iirc there's a new dns thing
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05:56 < umby24> lahwran: it sends a 'server list ping'
05:57 < umby24> nothing really special to it
05:57 < umby24> not encrypted or anything
05:57 < umby24> it sends back a kick packet (0xFF (Dec. 255)) with all the information you see in the client
05:58 < umby24> the new DNS thing is a SRV record, been in minecraft for a few versions
05:58 -!- Zachoz|Away is now known as Zachoz
05:58 < umby24> it just looks for the DNS SRV record before a standard dns query
05:58 < umby24> but iirc a srv record can include a port as well as an ip
05:59 < umby24> or even a different ip than a standard dns lookup
05:59 < lahwran> ok
05:59 < umby24> that way you don't have to pass your users a port, they just put in the ip.
05:59 < lahwran> how do I determine the port from a SRV lookup
06:01 < umby24> hm.. you could use nslookup to return it
06:02 < lahwran> I'm in python, twisted; sounds like what you're saying is "it's just a normal SRV record"
06:02 < lahwran> I don't know dns
06:02 < lahwran> so I don't know what's what, if you're saying it's normal I can just google for it
06:03 < umby24> im unfamiliar with looking it up programically, sorry
06:05 < lahwran> ok, thanks
06:06 < umby24> if you can get output from another program, nslookup -type=SRV [domain]
06:07 < umby24> though i am having issue with my test domain, as it appears they put it behind cloudflare :D
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15:26 < Not-001> [PyNBT] TkTech pushed 3 commits to master [+0/-0/±4] http://git.io/wm7nNw
15:26 < Not-001> [PyNBT] DMBuce 0dca461 - Fix shebang in bigtest
15:26 < Not-001> [PyNBT] DMBuce 3245ab2 - Update example documentation to work with Python 3 * Use mode='rb' with open() * Use `print(foo)` instead of `print foo` This clears up some of the confusion in issue #3.
15:26 < Not-001> [PyNBT] TkTech 6e1f01e - Merge pull request #6 from DMBuce/master Fix docs, test
15:30 < Not-001> [PyNBT] TkTech pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/Y8Ip7g
15:30 < Not-001> [PyNBT] TkTech 7a0be81 - Default NBTFile name is now ''; Closes #7
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12:51 < pbunny> hi
12:52 < pbunny> i need somebody to join my server and test stuff
12:52 < pbunny> ( i haven't bought mc client yet )
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15:34 < pbunny> hi, can somebody test my server?
15:34 < pbunny> i don't have mc client
15:41 <+clonejo> pbunny: Would be easier if you said host and port…
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16:23 < pbunny> clonejo: trolls.lv:1337
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18:57 < Valdiralita> zz_dav1d!
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08:27 <+md_5> <pbunny> [01:31:59] i don't have mc client
08:27 <+md_5> codes mc server: doesnt own a client
08:27 <+md_5> how do you even know you can log in?
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08:28 < dx> maybe he tests with a rcon/query/server list client
08:28 <+md_5> still doesnt let him log in
08:29 <+md_5> also this is the guy who codes in header files and uses epoll/select with 2 threads per connection, and a thread for each antity
08:29 < dx> maybe his mc sever doesn't support the network protocol at all
08:29 <+md_5> and keeps entire map loaded in ram
08:29 < dx> ah lol that guy
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08:29 < dx> yeah, my reaction when i saw his header files... well...
08:29 < dx> let's leave it there.
08:30 < dexter0> Recursion must give him nightmares.
08:30 < dx> don't want to include details about misplaced digestive fluids in this channel
08:31 <+md_5> cant find a good meme for codes mc server: doesnt own a client
08:31 < dx> you probably need to mix a few memes to get a good one
08:34 < dx> md_5: maybe just the [10] guy
08:35 < dx> (the one who's really high)
08:37 <+md_5> dx http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3t9v73/
08:37 < dx> perfect
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08:40 < dx> >trolls.lv:1337
08:40 < dx> not sure if the hostname of his mc server is relevant
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12:20 < pbunny> hi, client crashes when i send 'spawn mob' packet
12:20 < pbunny> any suggestions?
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12:38 <+md_5> pbunny how would you know? You dont have the client
12:39 <+md_5> unless you pirated
12:39 <+md_5> in which case gtfo
12:40 < pbunny> md_5: a guy tries and gets crash
12:40 <+md_5> you are gonna have fun writing a server without owning the client
12:40 <+md_5> seriously, how the f** did you get this far
12:40 < edk> md_5, by lying
12:40 < pbunny> md_5: http://dpaste.org/IbgPM/raw/
12:40 < pbunny> edk: no.
12:41 < pbunny> md_5: as you see, client actually lists 'Pig' entity in crash dump
12:41 < pbunny> so it parsed it
12:41 < pbunny> why did it crashed?
12:51 < Grum> because it got a NPE
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12:55 < pbunny> Grum: NPE?
12:55 < Grum> NullPointerException
12:55 < edk> (like it says in the error report)
12:55 < pbunny> yeah, and NullPointerException can mean anything
12:55 < pbunny> java sucks totally
12:56 < Grum> not really, you just used a nullpointer :p
12:56 < pbunny> if i don't send 0x18 packet, client does not crash
12:56 < pbunny> Grum: its a native client
12:56 < pbunny> i just sent 0x18 to it
12:56 < Grum> i guess you have to send more
12:56 < Grum> or with proper information
12:58 < pbunny> well it is correct according to http://wiki.vg/Protocol
12:58 < Grum> but the question remains, is THAT correct
12:59 < pbunny> i didn't sent Entity (0x1E) though
12:59 < pbunny> i haven't need it for item entities
12:59 < edk> java does kinda suck
13:00 < Grum> every language sucks
13:00 < edk> yep
13:00 < edk> in their own way, most things are shit
13:00 < pbunny> and is it safe to send 127 in metadata for any mob?
13:00 < edk> the reason java annoys me particularly is it tries to be all not crashy and predictable and compile time and type safe
13:00 < Grum> try and figure out pbunny :D
13:00 < pbunny> still waiting for him to try
13:01 < Grum> edk: erm 'not crashy' and 'predictable' and 'typesafe' are bad? O.o
13:01 < edk> oh, they would be if it worked
13:01 < edk> wouldn't be*
13:01 < edk> I mean, yes, it's type safe
13:01 < edk> but it doesn't make it crash any less, or need less testing
13:01 < edk> so I don't see the point
13:01 < Grum> euuh
13:02 < Grum> *ALL* code needs testing
13:02 < edk> right
13:02 < Grum> no matter what language
13:02 < edk> I agree
13:02 < edk> but that makes me ask the question "why bother having a pessimistic language if you have to test it anyway?"
13:02 < pbunny> 'typesafe' is ridiculous
13:02 < edk> you're ridiculous
13:02 < Grum> euuh wtf?
13:02 < pbunny> in C i can set any pointer to anything
13:03 < edk> I quite like type safety
13:03 < pbunny> no matter the type
13:03 < Grum> awesome nonsense arguments >.>
13:03 < edk> I just don't like the attitude in java
13:03 < Grum> which attitude in java?
13:03 < pbunny> 'predictable' is also BS as it depends on programmer's skill
13:03 < edk> It's hard to pin down. I feel like java has this idea that by making you type a type name enough times, it somehow becomes harder for things to crash
13:03 < pbunny> java is not more 'predictable', java is more 'predictable for noobs'
13:03 < Grum> erm what?
13:04 < Grum> you use an IDE right?
13:04 < Grum> i dont see any problems
13:04 < pbunny> no.
13:04 < pbunny> i use nano
13:04 < edk> yeah, but you're insane
13:04 < Grum> i mean, you wouldnt code java without an ide, if not ... well ..... stop being so daft
13:04 < pbunny> i never code java
13:04 < edk> this is what I don't get
13:04 < Zachoz> Then how can you say it's shit?
13:04 < edk> my complaints about Java may be unreasonable and unfair, but at least I used it before making assertions about it :P
13:05 < Grum> edk: next you are going to argue that a variable named of a single letter is 'much better' than one that describes the meaning properly
13:05 < edk> not so
13:05 < pbunny> edk: i tried to use it
13:05 < edk> but the java way where there's millions of casts everywhere... ugh
13:05 < Grum> erm there is not a single cast anywhere
13:05 < pbunny> when it attempted to javize my brain i threw it away
13:05 < edk> maybe that's a problem with the way specific people write java
13:05 < pbunny> there is actually 'brain java' disease
13:05 < Grum> i've just written ~300 lines of code without having to cast anything
13:05 < pbunny> people start to think like in java, with object and stuff
13:05 < Grum> i think you just suck at writing clean code :)
13:06 < edk> I write plenty of java without many casts in it
13:06 < Grum> or do not understand some of the basic concepts
13:06 < edk> but I see a lot of java that does have them in
13:06 < edk> while we're on the subject of things I don't like about java, fucking generics
13:06 < edk> grrrrr
13:06 < Grum> there are some points where you need casting; not so many
13:06 < pbunny> java is about using 50Mb of RAM for player structure
13:06 < edk> it's not about that
13:06 < Grum> pbunny: its not?
13:06 < pbunny> Grum: official server uses about that
13:07 < pbunny> that's why no 1000+ online server yet
13:07 < edk> one wonders how you worked this out
13:07 < pbunny> not even 100+ online iirc
13:07 < Grum> just for the player structure?.... not really
13:07 < edk> and why you insist on using b for bytes
13:07 < Grum> pbunny: no that is not at all the reason
13:07 < pbunny> edk: because theres also MiB abbrevuature
13:07 < Zachoz> "pbunny: not even 100+ online iirc".. Are you kidding...?
13:07 < pbunny> and nobody needs to concern about bits for at least 20 years
13:07 < edk> however Mb is clearly megabits
13:07 < edk> ...
13:07 < edk> you're retarded
13:07 < pbunny> Zachoz: is there 100+ online server anywhere?
13:08 < pbunny> i mean - a server, not collection of servers
13:08 < edk> fuck yes there are
13:08 < Grum> stop whining about how you captitalize the units god
13:08 < Zachoz> Yes... There's quite a few, actually.
13:08 < Grum> he said 1000+
13:08 < edk> Grum, it's a different fucking unit
13:08 < pbunny> hmh
13:08 < edk> no he didn't
13:08 < Grum> LEARN TO READ Zachoz
13:08 < edk> <pbunny> not even 100+ online iirc
13:08 < Zachoz> ^
13:08 < edk> b and B are not the same thing
13:08 < edk> if it were almost any other letter I wouldn't give a shit
13:08 < Grum> edk: its not, if you mean megabit just fucking type mbit not mb Mb MB mB ...
13:09 < Grum> are you really saying that you ONLY read 'mb' as millibit or millibar?
13:09 < edk> you know what? take that up with SI, not me
13:09 < edk> no, but Mb and MB are equally valid as units of data
13:10 < edk> just one's 8 times the size of the other
13:10 < edk> and I use both units fairly frequently at work
13:10 < Grum> not really; Mega bar is not really a useful measuring tool
13:10 < edk> megabit and megabyte
13:10 < Grum> right lets just stop whining about the capitalization of a letter kk?
13:10 <+Fador> ...you really measure memory usage in bits?
13:11 < edk> who said I measure memory usage in them?
13:11 < Grum> edk: god ....
13:11 < Grum> its just fador who thinks he can be super funny >.>
13:11 < edk> i'm quite happy to stop arguing about it
13:12 < edk> i just get caught up in arguments and then don't want to "lose"
13:12 < Grum> anyhow, pbunny, i'd like to see your 'proof' for the player-structure taking 50mbit/mb
13:12 < edk> i know that's silly
13:12 < edk> yeah, I'm unconvinced by that
13:12 < Grum> i know it is not true
13:12 < Grum> so feel free to prove it otherwise
13:12 < edk> still, a rewritten server would go faster
13:12 < Grum> faster what?
13:12 < edk> but it would go faster if it were rewritten in java, too
13:12 < edk> faster than the current one
13:13 < Grum> define faster
13:13 < edk> *sigh*
13:13 < pbunny> edk: not quite
13:13 < Grum> yes, be fucking specific for once
13:13 < edk> well, let's settle for "take fewer CPU cycles per tick"
13:13 < pbunny> you can't just code something fast in java
13:13 < Grum> faster what? logging in? higher tps? faster ping times?
13:13 < Grum> pbunny: false statement
13:13 < pbunny> because i.e. when you do a=2+5 java actually executes about 500 CPU instructions
13:13 < edk> logging in bottleneck isn't the server, as far as I know, it's doing the authentication dance
13:14 < Grum> pbunny: really?
13:14 < edk> pbunny, consider reading about some of the optimizations the JVM has enjoyed since being invented
13:14 < pbunny> edk: still it uses more than 10 instructions for addition
13:14 < pbunny> i.e. bounds checking
13:14 < Grum> that would mean it is at least 125 slower than ANYTHING out there
13:14 < pbunny> and don't forget about garbage collector!
13:14 < edk> garbage collection is a real weakness of java
13:14 < pbunny> it just stops everything and does its dirty work
13:14 < Grum> which would mean a client not running java but c would have 2500 fps on my machine?
13:14 < edk> however, it's better than a few alternatives
13:14 < Grum> and AT MINIMUM 125fps on ANY machine?
13:15 < edk> Grum, well, unless the bottleneck is the gpu
13:15 < edk> anyway, GC is a pain in the ass, and it is a problem
13:15 < Grum> pbunny: it stops everything? seriously? >.>
13:15 < pbunny> Grum: yeah. it can't check memory during its changing
13:15 < edk> but if the alternative is your horrible C that leaks allocated storage everywhere...
13:15 < pbunny> edk: my C leaks nothing
13:15 < edk> I'll believe that when I see it
13:16 < Grum> then again, you do not have a server written
13:16 < pbunny> and it uses abotu 80Mb for everything
13:16 < Alan> oh boy
13:16 < pbunny> Grum: partially written
13:16 < Grum> without anyone online?
13:16 < Grum> epic
13:16 < Grum> that is even worse than the official server >.>
13:16 < Alan> what a fun channel this is
13:16 < pbunny> Grum: it uses about 300 bytes per player online
13:16 < Grum> pbunny: then its not a minecraft server
13:16 < pbunny> ...
13:16 < Alan> half a proof-of-concept that isn't feature complete isn't really comparable...
13:17 < Grum> because it is 100% impossible to have that little memory usage for an online player *AND* actually have a proper minecraft server
13:17 < edk> well
13:17 < Grum> s/proper/featureful/
13:17 < Grum> s/featureful/feature complete/
13:17 < Grum> lets be more exact :)
13:17 < pbunny> Fador: can you please show me code that sends 0x18 (Spawn Mob) packet?
13:18 < edk> I'm trying to think about what you actually need to store for a player
13:18 < pbunny> Grum: why?
13:18 < pbunny> Grum: i store player's location, inventory, network stuff
13:18 < Grum> pbunny: because each player has to have at least 19*16x19*16x256 blocks loaded around itself
13:18 < pbunny> LOL
13:18 < edk> I think he's discounting that
13:18 < Grum> i know he is
13:18 < pbunny> now that's a java thinking
13:18 < edk> you can have single inventory items that take more than 300B though
13:18 < Grum> pbunny: no its not
13:18 < edk> pbunny, that's stupid
13:18 < pbunny> Grum: why the hell should i store the map in player's structure????
13:19 < edk> that's just someone interpreting the question different from you
13:19 < Grum> pbunny: quote me where i say that you store that IN the player structure?
13:19 < pbunny> Grum: if 1000 players will be standing on the same place - i must store the map around them 1000 times?
13:19 < pbunny> oh god why
13:19 <+Fador> pbunny: https://github.com/fador/mineserver/blob/master/include/protocol.h#L111
13:19 < Grum> quote me.
13:19 < Grum> because you are just making shit up
13:20 < edk> I wouldn't bother waiting for that quote :P
13:20 < pbunny> 13:37:23         Grum | pbunny: because each player has to have at least 19*16x19*16x256 blocks loaded around itself
13:20 < Grum> i'm saying it should be loaded, not saying WHERE it should be stored/loaded
13:20 < edk> pbunny, although a couple of the problems you have listed in java are actually real problems
13:20 < Grum> yes, loaded around itself, i'm not saying anything about WHERE to store that
13:20 < edk> you seem to completely misunderstand their significance and when they apply
13:20 < edk> so I'm inclined to say you don't actually know anything about java at all
13:20 < pbunny> Grum: why would server keep a copy of map that he loaded?
13:20 < pbunny> why would it take memory on server?
13:20 < Grum> because that is what a feature complete minecraft server does
13:20 < Grum> but you'll figure that out when you grow up
13:20 < pbunny> storing a map for every player?
13:20 <+Fador> pbunny: metadata should be just (int8_t)127 if no metadata is present
13:20 < Grum> no ....
13:21 < Grum> loading the world-data around players in memory
13:21 < pbunny> Fador: well i send 127
13:21 < edk> I have to go
13:21 < edk> have fun
13:21 < edk> pbunny, try not to hurt your brain
13:22 < Grum> pbunny: you do far too many assumptions
13:22 < pbunny> Fador: << (int8_t)0 << (int8_t)0 << metadata;
13:22 < Grum> but you'll find out soon enough why its not trivial to be a feature complete minecraft server
13:22 < pbunny> what are these 2 zeros there? o.O
13:22 < Grum> *AND* be fast
13:22 < pbunny> Grum: map is already loaded on server...
13:22 < pbunny> it is always kept there loaded......
13:22 < Grum> the whole map?
13:22 < pbunny> yeah
13:22 < Grum> lol ...
13:22 <+Fador> pbunny: not sure..it might still be using some older protocol version because I haven't updated everything =/
13:23 < Grum> you do realize that people have a 1.5gb map very often?
13:23 < pbunny> Fador: i will try these zeros
13:23 < Grum> or even far far bigger
13:23 < pbunny> Grum: do you realize my server has 8Gb of RAM?
13:23 < pbunny> and it will have 256Gb
13:23 < Grum> >.>
13:23 < pbunny> 256Gb is quite enough for everything
13:23 < jast> Grum: we've done all this before
13:23 < Grum> will be nice startup times then for you lol :p
13:23 < pbunny> Grum: nice performance on other hand
13:23 < jast> if you're not in it for the entertainment, you can't back out too early
13:23 < Grum> loading the whole world into ram, epic startup wait >.>
13:24 < pbunny> Grum: so?
13:24 < pbunny> good performance after it for everything
13:24 < Grum> pbunny: yeah because waiting 20 minutes before your whole world is loaded is worth it >.>
13:24 < pbunny> and world will be a true world, not 'combined singleplayer' 
13:24 < Grum> what?
13:24 < pbunny> mobs will be independent etc
13:24 < Grum> that makes no sense at all
13:24 < pbunny> think about it some more then
13:24 < Grum> 'true world', 'combined singleplayer'
13:24 < Grum> those terms mean nothing
13:25 < jast> he's explained it before
13:25 < pbunny> yeah, currently mc servers offer 'combined singleplayer'
13:25 < pbunny> no players -> nothing happens
13:25 < Grum> what? O.o
13:25 < Grum> euuh
13:25 < pbunny> world is saved and stopped
13:25 < Grum> no stuff happens in the areas of the world that is loaded
13:25 < pbunny> until player comes
13:25 < jast> the idea is, apparently, that supposedly it's 5000% better if the world still updates everywhere even when nobody is near (or even logged in)
13:25 < Grum> lol
13:25 < Grum> LOL
13:25 < jast> yes
13:25 < jast> exactly
13:25 < Grum> good luck running out of cpu on the best of machines
13:25 < pbunny> jast: yes, it allows for better realism
13:25 < Grum> there is a good reason we unload parts of the world
13:26 < jast> Grum: oh, but what you don't know is that pbunny is a self-certified genius and master of C
13:26 < pbunny> Grum: CPU usage is about 1% for processing world and physics for 1000 entities
13:26 < Grum> only 1000 yes
13:26 < Grum> but entities would keep spawning
13:26 < pbunny> and its when running via valgrind compiled with debug
13:26 < jast> so for 100000 entities it's 100% :)
13:26 < Grum> because the world is loaded
13:26 < pbunny> jast: if running via valgrind
13:26 < jast> yeah yeah
13:26 < jast> we haven't considered a bigger world yet
13:26 < Grum> so yeah, having a couple of million entities and dont forget all the other stuff the server has to do
13:26 < pbunny> Grum: sure, no problem
13:26 < Grum> really?
13:26 < Grum> and how fast do you think to finish this server?
13:26 < jast> if the surface of the world increases by a factor of 2, the RAM required increases by a factor of up to 512
13:27 < Grum> that 'has no problem' having thousands of people online while keeping any map that fits in memory loaded forever?
13:27 < jast> in short, web scale!
13:27 < Grum> because i'd like to see it :)
13:27 < Grum> oh, and obviously do *everything* the current minecraft does logicwise
13:27 < jast> you will, Real Soon Now(tm)
13:28 < jast> did we mention that pbunny does not have a minecraft client?
13:28 < Grum> oh also, how will it get to this size world?
13:28 < pbunny> jast: what do you mean by "surface of the world increases"?
13:28 < Grum> pbunny: people explore
13:28 < pbunny> what exactly increases by factor of 2?
13:28 < pbunny> Z size? X size?
13:28 < Grum> or do you plan to pre-gen a 60million*60million world?
13:28 < jast> surface area
13:28 < pbunny> Grum: no.
13:28 < Grum> so how do you plan to do worldgeneration?
13:28 < jast> surfaces are two-dimensional
13:28 < pbunny> Grum: i already done that
13:28 < Grum> did you also do the lighting of them?
13:28 -!- act4 [1f073cdc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.31.7.60.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
13:29 < pbunny> just call the relevant function of needed world prior to using this chunk
13:29 < jast> oh please, lighting is for free! didn't you know?
13:29 < Grum> also i really wouldnt want to see this code in c
13:29 < Grum> i mean it must have locks all over the place :)
13:30 -!- Zachoz is now known as Zachoz|Away
13:30 < Grum> beceause the only way you'll get remotely close to what you claim to achieve performance wise is to use every single core on a system
13:30 < Grum> and good fucking luck with the locking :)
13:30 < pbunny> Grum: http://dpaste.org/P7mog/ - here you go
13:31 < pbunny> common world loop, some physics stuff, handling of dumping entities to players
13:31 < Grum> and no threading
13:31 < Grum> i'd love to see your lighting code
13:31 < Grum> assuming it is feature complete and correct
13:31 < pbunny> no threading?
13:31 < jast> because it's so cheap, let's implement radiosity, too
13:31 < Grum> wait; there is threading
13:31 < Grum> nevermind :)
13:32 < Grum> the fact that 95% of the code is on the righthand side of my page kinda raises a huuuuuge red flag btw
13:34 < jast> hey, m*n loop on entities? awesome
13:34 < pbunny> Grum: http://dpaste.org/MQNyD/raw/
13:34 < pbunny> boo!
13:34 < jast> and it's even symmetrical
13:34 < Grum> but i'm really curious how you did your block and skylighting calculations
13:35 < jast> oh, actually it's an m*n*p loop in some situations
13:35 < pbunny> Grum: search for "chunk_set_block" there
13:35 < pbunny> or chunk_set_field / chunk_set_hfield
13:35 < jast> i.e. one billion iterations for 1000 entities
13:35 < Grum> that doesn't set any light pbunny
13:35 < Grum> you just set the heightmap
13:35 < pbunny> jast: i will optimize that
13:36 < pbunny> split entities by quadrants
13:36 < pbunny> so only nearby ones will be concerned
13:36 < pbunny> Grum: i haven't implemented lighting yet, but you can set it with chunk_set_hfield
13:36 < Grum> pbunny: i'm missing the skylight and blocklight calculations
13:36 < jast> oh see, he just hasn't implemented it yet
13:36 < Grum> you cant just 'set' a light value without doing propagation
13:37 < jast> but of course we all know how easy it is to do that
13:37 < pbunny> jast: easier than making client not crash on pig entity packet receive
13:37 < pbunny> :|
13:37 < jast> if you say so
13:37 < Grum> also, all of your macros are broken, unless c++ automatically puts ()'s around your arguments :)
13:38 < pbunny> no.
13:38 < pbunny> ( ) are not required
13:38 < pbunny> go learn some C
13:38 < jast> well, they aren't if he happens to be using variable names whenever he passes stuff
13:38 < pbunny> right
13:38 < jast> if he doesn't... boom
13:38 < Grum> erm they are pbunny? if you define a macro as: foo(i) { return i*2; } you better make that return (i)*2
13:39 < pbunny> Grum: not quite
13:39 < jast> oh, but you never pass something more complex than 'foo' to macros. everyone knows that!
13:39 < Grum> because when you'd ever be passing in: 1+1 as argument for i
13:39 < jast> err, bad example word :)
13:39 < Grum> it expands to: return 1+1*2 ... which is NOT 2 :P
13:39 < pbunny> Grum: if i would need to pass 1+1, i will use ( )
13:39 < jast> foo(1+1) == 3! yay!
13:39 < pbunny> don't worry about that
13:39 < Grum> pbunny: oooh wait; so when you use the macro with a composed argument you will remember to fix up your macro?
13:39 < jast> so you always have to remember which things you're calling are macros and which aren't. you must really hate yourself...
13:40 < pbunny> Grum: of course
13:40 < Grum> i mean, that is not at all a way that will give you unexpected bugs at any time
13:40 < pbunny> jast: everything are macros there
13:40 < pbunny> except for main() and thread functions
13:40 < jast> yeah, because you hate yourself, right
13:40 < pbunny> and some init functions that are called only once
13:40 < pbunny> jast: what is wrong with defines?
13:40 < jast> and because the inline keyword doesn't exist
13:40 < pbunny> i don't get it
13:40 < pbunny> jast: its not the same
13:41 < Grum> oh nothing; as long as you write them properly ;)
13:41 < jast> the code gets even less readable
13:41 < Grum> these arent really robust
13:41 < pbunny> jast: its 100% readable by me
13:41 < Grum> if this isnt robust .. that says quite some about the rest of the code
13:41 < pbunny> what do you mean by "not robust"?
13:41 < Grum> 'it breaks when you put shit in it depending on what you put in it'
13:41 < Grum> aka: fragile :P
13:41 < pbunny> Grum: this applies to any code
13:41 < pbunny> you shouldn't put shit there
13:42 < pbunny> well except for java which is shit itself
13:42 < Grum> erm
13:42 < pbunny> so it isn't suffering
13:42 < Grum> foo(1+1) is not 'shit' :)
13:42 < Grum> so tempting to find a bug in your code right now where you failed to put ()'s in your macro ;)
13:42 < Grum> but i dont think you have implemented enough to easily find one
13:43 < pbunny> Grum: i don't spawn bugs.
13:43 < Grum> actually, you do
13:43 < pbunny> and you are right, shitty developers spend 80% of their time to 'implement enough' to find bugs easier
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13:44 < Grum> anyhow, pbunny, is this project of yours opensource?
13:44 < jast> nope
13:44 < jast> he's IP-paranoid and stuff
13:45 < pbunny> ip-paranoid?
13:45 < Grum> just let him answer jast gawd
13:45 < jast> whatever. have fun.
13:45 < pbunny> Grum: no, maybe in the future
13:45 < pbunny> do you want to participate?
13:46 < Grum> i'd like to see you solve some problems
13:46 < pbunny> what problems?
13:46 < Grum> lighting for example
13:47 < pbunny> don't see problem there
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13:47 < pbunny> what seems hard for you?
13:47 < Grum> what do you consider lighting?
13:47 < pbunny> light and skylight portion of chunk
13:48 < Grum> right, so that code is easily to do efficiently? :)
13:48 < pbunny> depends on algorithm
13:48 < pbunny> and requirements
13:48 < Grum> the algorithm is: you are one lighter than your brightest neighbor; max 15; min 0;
13:49 < Grum> blocks can be lightsources of different strengths and allow light to pass through 
13:49 < Stormx2> Grum, you can't win an argument with pbunny. He brings you down to his level then beats you with experience
13:49 < Grum> some blocks let light through but they diminish it with more than 1, like water
13:50 < pbunny> Grum: most probably i will create a special type of metaentity - lightsource
13:50 < Grum> so the furthest light will go from a single source is 15 blocks
13:50 < pbunny> and will iterate through them in entities loop
13:50 < pbunny> in world.c
13:50 < pbunny> they will update light around them if needed
13:50 < pbunny> or simply on every iteration
13:50 < Grum> but you will check every gametick if it is needed?
13:50 < Grum> for all lights?
13:50 < Grum> for a single floating torch you'll end up checking ~4k blocks around it
13:50 < pbunny> Grum: don't see any problems of updating ~30 bytes per entity per tick
13:51 < pbunny> why 4k blocks?
13:51 < Grum> because that is how far the light shines?
13:51 -!- Justasic2 [~Justasic@174-25-126-72.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #mcdevs
13:52 < pbunny> well implement some tracking of light changes
13:52 < pbunny> so light will be updated only when needed
13:52 < pbunny> i.e. when torch is placed
13:52 < Stormx2> How do you track which block actions affect which lights?
13:52 < Stormx2> e.g. a piston moving a block
13:52 < Grum> pbunny: block placement, block breaking indeed
13:53 < Grum> or rather, on delta-block :)
13:53 < pbunny> Stormx2: any block movement inside light-change-trackable area will trigger light update
13:53 < Grum> but that is not really the issue
13:53 < pbunny> block change *
13:53 < pbunny> i don't see a problem
13:53 < Grum> the issue is the sheer volume of blocks you have to calculate the lighting for
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13:54 < Grum> and because light *can* decay with more than 1 you are limited in the amounts of shortcuts you can take
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13:54 < Grum> but please do, i'm really interested if you find a good & fast way
13:56 < pbunny> i don't see the problem...
13:56 < pbunny> it's like 200 bytes write (at most) for light update
13:56 < pbunny> maybe 400 bytes read
13:56 < Stormx2> pbunny, the issue isn't the number of bytes you're writing...
13:56 < pbunny> RAM can handle that
13:57 -!- zz_dav1d [dav1d@static.82.162.46.78.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Quit: nothing to see]
13:58 -!- dav1d [dav1d@unaffiliated/dav1d] has joined #mcdevs
14:03 < pbunny> Stormx2: what is the issue?
14:05 < pbunny> can somebody join trolls.lv:1337 and test the freaking pig?
14:07 < pbunny> can client crash if pig entity is (theoretically possible) inside block?
14:37 < Stormx2> no
14:38 < pbunny> what can be the problem then
14:38 < Stormx2> pbunny, the issue is cpu cycles as lighting is O(a^n)
14:39 < pbunny> so what
14:39 < pbunny> lightning won't change every tick
14:39 < pbunny> lighting *
14:39 < Stormx2> so an implementation written by people who understand what big-O is is slow
14:40 < jast> have fun at dusk and dawn, then
14:40 < pbunny> dusk and dawn doesn't happen every tick
14:40 < Stormx2> jast, that's client-side
14:40 < Stormx2> the lighting changes anyway
14:40 < pbunny> oh?
14:40 < Stormx2> server still sends the same skylight
14:41 < Stormx2> yeah, it does it based on time irrc
14:41 < jast> right. magic.
14:41 < jast> but still you'd have to recalculate light
14:41 < jast> after all you need to figure out the correct light level for places that used to be lit by sun and now aren't
14:42 < jast> I suppose you could cheat and do it just once
14:42 < dav1d> meh I am bored
14:42 < jast> (per dusk and per dawn)
14:42 < dav1d> sitiing at university "learnling" java -.-
14:42 < jast> dav1d: feel free to join in yet another iteration of this pointless discussion
14:42 < Stormx2> not true. the client treats blocklight and skylight separately. The *actual* skylight it computes is a product of the skylight sent in chunks, and the time-of-day
14:42 < Stormx2> i.e. you don't need to do any new light calculations for night-time
14:42 < dav1d> atm Hello World, line for line explanation
14:43 < dav1d> jast: light calculations?
14:43 < jast> so the server doesn't have to decide where it can and can't spawn mobs?
14:43 < jast> dav1d: that's just a sub-topic
14:43 < Stormx2> Oh, shit.
14:43 < dav1d> if you come up with a good and fast way, let me know, gotta implement it for BraLa some day
14:43 < Stormx2> Hm.
14:43 < dav1d> ah ok
14:43 < jast> the overarching story is a certain person's super server that does everything
14:43 < Stormx2> I'm sure I recall someone telling me it moved client-side but perhaps I'm wrong
14:43 < dav1d> and they use a mac at university -.-
14:43 < dav1d> they should know better
14:44 < jast> well, I suppose there's no point in sending the dusk/dawn-related light updates to the clients, but you still have to calculate it on the server
14:45 < pbunny> jast: my server won't "spawn" mobs
14:45 < pbunny> mobs will reproduce
14:46 < jast> I know, I know
14:46 < jast> but you still need to know about lighting if you want to, say, determine correct growth for plants
14:46 < pbunny> i.e. pigs will infest players with larvae which after some time will kill player and several new pigs will be born
14:46 < jast> oh, just like in real life
14:46 < pbunny> yeah
14:47 < pbunny> plants will eat players and other mobs and grow after that
14:47 < pbunny> they will need nutrients
14:48 < jast> I can see it now... a patch of high grass chasing and eating players
14:49 < pbunny> no, they won't move
14:49 < pbunny> but they can digest anything that will step on them, slowly
14:51 < pbunny> i will need light calculations for UFO appearing
14:51 < dx> god dammit guys
14:51 < dx> you talk too much
14:52 < pbunny> btw, is it possible to surrond some mob with darkness (set all light to 0)? how will he look like?
14:52 < dx> and the worst part is that i was going to grab popcorn to continue reading, but then you went on to say 'java is shit'. nobody cares if java is shit.
14:52 < pbunny> dx: but there are many that need to be told the truth
14:52 < pbunny> i.e. dav1d 
14:53 < dx> i don't know what you're talking about but i've already saved my popcorn in the fridge for another day
14:53 < dav1d> pbunny: mh?
14:53 < dav1d> didn't follow the conversation
14:54 < dav1d> pbunny: what?
14:54 < dav1d> is it my fault that I have tests in java to finish university?
14:56 < dx> ha
14:57 < dx> yeah, dav1d joined in the middle of this, only mentioned the university thing, and then pbunny attacks him randomly for having mentioned java. lol.
14:57 < dx> okay, okay, i'll grab the popcorn again and continue reading this conversation from the beginning
14:57 < dx> but it better be good!
14:58 < pbunny> dav1d: this is your fault that you attend useless timewaste
14:58 < dav1d> haha
14:58 < dav1d> what a funny guy
14:58 < pbunny> its just a business of making money from parents that are 100% sure educations is needed now as it was 50 years ago
14:58 < dx> dav1d: i agree!
14:59 < dav1d> dx: thanks
15:00 < pbunny> education now serves 2 things
15:01 < pbunny> first, its a business. a bunch of 'professors' earn money by wasting time of students that aren't aware that they can just google all they need like 100 times faster
15:02 < pbunny> second, its a government structures for brainwashing the youth of society
15:02 < pbunny> i.e. they enforce m$ products and position linux to students like some exotic stuff
15:02 < dav1d> wrong
15:03 < dav1d> university pcs run linux, profs use all OS mixed
15:03 < pbunny> so students will use m$ products and can be controlled by the system via microsoft
15:03 < dx> meh
15:03 < pbunny> dav1d: there are exceptions
15:03 < pbunny> 90% of univercities position m$ as primary OS simply because m$ 'sponsors' them
15:03 < pbunny> also they teach C#, ASP.NET and other ridiculous bs
15:04 < dx> we already know you never had formal studies, pbunny, it was obvious from the beginning
15:04 < pbunny> i had until i left
15:04 <+sadimusi> by choice? :D
15:04 < pbunny> yeah
15:04 < pbunny> sadimusi: i noticed they try to brainwash me
15:04 < pbunny> it was too dangerous to stay
15:05 < dx> maybe brainwashing isn't always a bad thing after all
15:05 < pbunny> they only reason i went there at all was because of parents persuaded me
15:05 < dav1d> nope, no c#
15:05 < pbunny> as always happens
15:05 < dav1d> racket and java
15:05 < pbunny> dx: it is bad for mental freedom, obviously
15:05 < pbunny> and for individuality
15:05 <+sadimusi> how so?
15:06 < dav1d> bbl going home
15:06 < dx> some people make you consider that mental freedom leads to awful results
15:06 < pbunny> what people?
15:06 < dx> stupid people
15:06 < pbunny> only a very few people are totally free
15:06 -!- dav1d is now known as zz_dav1d
15:06 < pbunny> and they are at the top of all of this
15:07 <+Fador> they teach C++ at my university =)
15:07 < dx> haskell / C at mine
15:07 <+sadimusi> we can code in whatever language we choose, the examples are mostly in java
15:08 < pbunny> still i don't see how google is less efficient than sitting there for years
15:08 <+sadimusi> look at your code and you'll know
15:08 < pbunny> nothing wrong there :)
15:08 < dx> would you decide to google spontaneously "how to measure algorithmic complexity"?
15:08 < pbunny> it's just not what you are used to
15:08 < dx> because you don't seem to know what that is
15:09 < pbunny> dx: yes, if i will need to measure it
15:09 < dx> lol
15:09 < dx> that answer...
15:09 < dx> i'll take it as a "no"
15:09 < dx> since you'll never realize when you need it if you don't know it exists
15:10 < pbunny> because i'm fine without it
15:10 < pbunny> and it exists only to garbage the minds of students some more
15:10 < dx> lol
15:10 <+sadimusi> :D
15:10 < dx> computer science theory is garbage, got it
15:10 < pbunny> there are tons of principles, standards, etc that do nothing useful
15:10 < pbunny> abstractions...
15:10 < pbunny> dx: yeah, theory is garbage if it isn't specific
15:10 < dx> yep, that seems to match the way you code perfectly
15:10 < dx> i do believe you're being honest
15:10 < pbunny> well my code works and is efficient
15:11 < pbunny> i don't need to know freaking hundreds of 'theories' to code well
15:11 < Stormx2> Can someone please ban this turd
15:11 < Stormx2> I'm sick of this shit
15:11 < pbunny> lol
15:11 < Stormx2> Stop taking pride in being uneducated
15:11 < dx> Stormx2: sorry for continuing it :(
15:11 < dx> i just find him very entertaining
15:12 < pbunny> Stormx2: education is not important in programming
15:12 < pbunny> ability to learn and invent is important
15:12 < Stormx2> Yes it fucking is you tard. This is why your code sucks.
15:12 < Stormx2> Every time we've got a snippet of your code it has been total garbage
15:12 < Stormx2> And you can't even admit to it.
15:13 < pbunny> because it isn't what you are used to in univercity?
15:13 < dx> fun fact: education is important for many things, including realizing how your code is shit!
15:13 < pbunny> dx: education can be different
15:13 < Stormx2> Everyone else
15:13 < Stormx2> Opinions please
15:13 < pbunny> univercities perform the "useless shit brainwashing"-style education
15:13 < pbunny> to make education periods longer and grab more money
15:14 < Stormx2> pbunny, they also teach you important concepts like big-O, which I still haven't heard your rationale for not accepting
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15:14 < pbunny> Stormx2: can you give any example of when i will need this big-O ?
15:14 <+sadimusi> Stormx2: I think it's obvious that nobody agrees with him on anything
15:14 < pbunny> and anyway i can just google it in 5 minutes
15:14 < dx> what sadimusi said
15:14 < Stormx2> sadimusi, you can stop this
15:14 < Stormx2> Make #mcdevs-1989
15:14 < Stormx2> send pbunny there
15:14 < pbunny> lol.
15:14 < pbunny> don't be so mad
15:15 < Stormx2> anyone who wants to follow him and write servers with pthreads and mutexes
15:15 < Stormx2> and not abstract datatypes
15:15 < Stormx2> or any of that shit anyone sensible does
15:15 < pbunny> i have abstract datatypes
15:15 < pbunny> i.e. item
15:15 < dx> what i'm really worried about is, am i the only one who isn't 'affected negatively' by his presence?
15:15 < pbunny> dx: obviously univercities inject a program to hate enemies of education system
15:15 < dx> loling
15:15 < jast> what do you mean by 'affected negatively'
15:16 < Stormx2> This is a channel I enjoy talking about technical parts of MC in. And I really value the opinions of almost everyone here.
15:16 < dx> jast: he's amusing, that's what i mean
15:16 < jast> oh, definitely
15:16 < dx> cool.
15:16 < Stormx2> But I hate some 15yo chipping in with "lol java is slow"
15:16 < Stormx2> or some shit
15:16 < Stormx2> It ruins the channel.
15:16 < pbunny> lol.
15:16 < jast> let's face it, java *is* slow (lol)
15:16 < pbunny> ++
15:16 < dx> yeah, java is really slow, REALLY slow
15:16 < Stormx2> Java being slow is not why minecraft is slow though.
15:16 < dx> but the issue might be that i have 32mb of ram
15:17 < Stormx2> Not entirely, not even majority.
15:17 < dx> and a 2gb swap partition mounted over sshfs
15:17 < pbunny> Stormx2: yeah, that's only one of reasons
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15:17 < pbunny> the other reason is - java is a memory hog
15:17 < pbunny> that's why they had to offload world regions
15:17 < pbunny> that's why additional overhead was introduced just to make server work at all
15:17 < Stormx2> world regions are stored as byte or nibble arrays iirc.
15:18 < pbunny> yeah, to disk
15:18 < Stormx2> I run my server off a ramdisk
15:18 < Stormx2> So, no disk.
15:18 < jast> the worst thing about java is that many of the biggest projects that use it are written badly and solve non-problems, and everyone jumps on those and integrates them into anything they, in turn, write in java
15:18 < pbunny> in C i can easily keep 2500x2500x256 world in 4Gb of RAM
15:18 < pbunny> with java i doubt 64Gb would be enough
15:18 < Stormx2> what makes you say that?
15:18 < pbunny> i did calculations.
15:18 < Stormx2> java stores byte arrays just like C does
15:18 < pbunny> ah
15:18 < pbunny> how about array sizes?
15:19 < dx> Stormx2: this guy stores the whole world in memory all the time
15:19 < pbunny> hmm
15:19 < Stormx2> They're byte[], it's not a python list or anything
15:19 < pbunny> dx: yeah, and i can keep 2500x2500 world that way
15:19 < Stormx2> dx, so do I but I don't need a new server to do it :P
15:19 < dx> Stormx2: don't bother arguing his shit, he knows about this
15:19 < pbunny> Stormx2: well maybe problem lies in another reason
15:19 < pbunny> the brain java of mojang devs?
15:19 < pbunny> the wish to OOP anything as much as they can
15:19 <+sadimusi> it's starting to get annoying, is anybody still having fun and wants to keep him around?
15:20 < dx> i do, but don't mind if someone kicks him
15:20 < jast> what's annoying is that everyone thinks they can educate him
15:20 < Stormx2> I could go either way.
15:20 < pbunny> omg, you can just ask me to stop this topic
15:20 < Stormx2> Maybe see if he keeps it up?
15:20 < jast> only slightly, though. it's kind of funny, too, at the same time
15:21 <+sadimusi> I'll just disable notifications for this channel for a while then :)
15:22 < dx> actually i think the conversation is over
15:22 < jast> your face is over
15:22 < jast> !!
15:22 < dx> :(
15:22 < jast> oh wait, no, there it is. my mistake.
15:22 < dx> oh cool
15:23 < dx> i'm going to write a minecraft server in pypy, they say it's faster than C so it's even better than java right?
15:23 < Stormx2> I'm going to write a minecraft server on a lisp machine because I hear they're all the rage
15:24 < dx> i'll just use python generators instead of arrays, python generators are just code and don't use any memory at all
15:24 < dx> i'd use the term "heap memory" but i've never heard it before
15:24 < dx> i can still use it - i just have to google it
15:24 < pbunny> are you serious?
15:25 < pbunny> you shouldn't use python at the first place
15:25 < dx> are YOU serious?
15:25 < pbunny> of course
15:25 < dx> oh god dammit sorry i'm continuing it
15:26 < jast> from now on I'll write all my code in Ada 83
15:28 < pbunny> Stormx2: what is your version about why mojang decided to not keep world in ram?
15:29 < pbunny> why did they go to all these complications and limitations (no offline mobs etc)?
15:29 < dx> dude
15:29 < dx> the answer to that question is trivial
15:29 < Alan> ugh
15:29 < Alan> this channel
15:29 < Alan> is full of people who haven't got a fucking clue, and people raging/sighing at people who don't have a clue
15:29 < Alan> who suggested I should come here?
15:29 < Alan> was it eddyb ?
15:29 < dx> Alan: uh, sorry
15:30 < dx> Alan: my pypy comment was sarcastic btw
15:30 < Alan> dx: I could tell you were being sarcastic
15:30 < dx> oh ok
15:30 < Alan> just, in general
15:30 < dx> Alan: then i don't know what other people you're talking about
15:30 < dx> Alan: it's just pbunny being derp...
15:30 < eddyb> Alan: yeah, well, I'm sorry if it turned out worse :(
15:30 < Alan> mainly pdelvo 
15:30 < Alan> erm
15:30 < Alan> pbunny: 
15:30 < dx> Alan: it's not usually like this
15:31 < Alan> yeah, it seems to usually be dead instead
15:31 < Alan> :P
15:31 < dx> ..well, yeah, lately yes
15:31 < pbunny> dx: trivial? can you sound it?
15:31 < dx> it's mostly about mc protocol and nobody interested happened with the protocol in a long time
15:31 < dx> pbunny: infinite world
15:32 < pbunny> dx: are you serious about somebody can ever need infinite world?
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15:32 < pbunny> isn't 2500x2500 already big enough?
15:32 < pbunny> or 15000x15000 (256Gb RAM) ?
15:32 < Alan> infinite world = very easy for players to accidentally make it use all the RAM
15:32 < dx> lol
15:32 < pbunny> Alan ++
15:32 < pbunny> dx: world is still not infinite
15:32 <+Fador> some run servers on raspberry pi with limited RAM ;D
15:32 < Alan> without regard for what the hardware specs are
15:32 < Alan> loading only what's in use lets memory usage scale with player count, not world size
15:33 < Alan> and lets you still have your effectively unlimited worlds
15:33 < Alan> how is that so hard to grasp?
15:33 < pbunny> why not limit world to 15000x15000 and loop it as planet?
15:33 < pbunny> it's a HUGE world
15:33 < dx> pbunny: my feed the beast server is hosted on a 512mb openvz - it runs flawlessly and the generated chunks extend up to 9000
15:33 < Alan> because that's not Minecraft
15:33 < dx> pbunny: i pay $30 per year for this server
15:33 < pbunny> dx: yes, but it doesn't iterate over everything
15:33 < dx> pbunny: to have a server with 32gb ram, you have to pay $100 per month usually
15:33 < dx> pbunny: there are no servers with 256gb ram in this planet
15:33 < pbunny> it's not a real independent world
15:34 < pbunny> dx: LOL.
15:34 < pbunny> there is
15:34 < dx> ..
15:34 < pbunny> dx: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131643
15:34 < Alan> dx: try telling my workplace that :P
15:34 < pbunny> you can insert 256Gb of RAM there
15:34 < dx> fug
15:34 < dx> oh dammit
15:34 < Alan> we're about to get 2 new servers: a 32-core 256GB RAM, and a 64-core 512GB RAM
15:34 < pbunny> i will get one in autumn maybe
15:34 < dx> actually there was a 48tb supercomputer
15:35 < Alan> but big servers are expensive
15:35 < dx> god dammit, i'm the stupid one now ;_;
15:35 < dx> okay
15:35 < dx> how about
15:35 < Alan> and your "average" group of minecrafters does not have the money needed to throw at servers that big
15:36 < Alan> and yet again, putting a really high lowerbound on amount of memory needed by making the usage scale with world size is horrible
15:36 < dx> pbunny: if you can tell me about a dedicated non-collocated service that provides 256gb ram, i'd love to know its price
15:36 < pbunny> dx: why not just buy one?
15:36 < pbunny> it's cheaper and better privacy
15:36 < dx> ..
15:37 < dx> okay i'm bored of this
15:37 < dx> bye
15:37 < pbunny> dx: imagine a hosting provider will read the emails and passwords of users of mc, then hacks their emails (as 99% of people use the same password everywhere)
15:37 < pbunny> and they all will blame you for that
15:37 < pbunny> how can you just trust your data to somebody you never saw
15:37 < dx> please don't ping me anymore, thank you.
15:38 < pbunny> also he can steal your code and run his own server, etc
15:38 < pbunny> ok
15:38 < jast> that's very simple: you make an agreement with the hoster to not do that. if they do it anyway, you sue them.
15:38 < Alan> "steal your code"
15:38 < pbunny> jast: they can hide all traces
15:38 < pbunny> easily
15:38 < jast> it's also illegal in the first place
15:38 < Alan> yeah, now you're going into the realms of "breach of contract", "illegal" etc
15:38 < pbunny> jast: you can't monitor your hosting provider
15:38 < Alan> running your server in a datacentre already puts you at risk
15:38 < jast> well
15:38 < pbunny> he can do whatever he wants, you can only guess
15:38 < Alan> even colocated
15:39 < pbunny> Alan: sure
15:39 < Alan> physical access = you lose
15:39 < pbunny> that's why i keep my server at home
15:39 < Alan> enjoy dat latency
15:39 < jast> it's fairly difficult to read stuff on a server without powering it off if you don't have the password
15:39 < pbunny> i have 1Gbps connection there
15:39 < jast> you can't do that with a screwdriver and a hammer
15:39 < Alan> you have a very broken/skewed view of what an average minecraft server looks like or should look like
15:39 < pbunny> jast: um, you can even read from RAM on running server with special devices
15:39 < Alan> jast: who says you can't power it off?
15:39 < jast> yes, with special devices
15:40 < Alan> "oops, power interruption"
15:40 < pbunny> jast: hosting provider can have these
15:40 < jast> any hoster who has these special devices will be viewed with, shall we say, a small amount of suspicion
15:40 < jast> Alan: o hi encrypted hard disk
15:40 < Alan> jast: and how do you suggest ever being able to reboot it?
15:40 < jast> (yeah yeah, not perfectly secure, I know)
15:41 < jast> though I suppose you could put the bootloader in a hardware dongle
15:41 < Alan> any method that you can use to unlock the encryption can be intercepted
15:41 < pbunny> you can encrypt all important partitions, but hosting provider can still sniff your password when you attempt to decrypt it (i.e. via ssh)
15:41 < jast> that should make it pretty safe
15:41 < Alan> ... the hardware dongle that's in the datacentre?
15:41 < jast> yes
15:41 < Alan> right, so how does any of this protect you against the datacentre staff?
15:41 < jast> e.g. hardware dongle has a private key baked into it
15:41 < pbunny> my root fs is unencrypted, so in case of reboot i can ssh into it and mount all encrypted partitions
15:42 < Alan> jast: in which case they've got the private key
15:42 < pbunny> but hosting provider would just intercept ssh and get your password
15:42 < Alan> it's almost like people don't grasp information theory.
15:42 < jast> you underestimate the difficulty involved in reverse-engineering hardware
15:42 < jast> especially if you don't want to damage said hardware
15:42 < Alan> why would you need to reverse-engineer it?
15:43 < jast> because the hardware dongle isn't going to tell you the secret key if you just ask nicely
15:43 < pbunny> jast: hosting provider can just use hotpluggable RAID in your server
15:43 < pbunny> then it can unplug 1 hdd and read it
15:43 < pbunny> then plug it back
15:43 < pbunny> etc
15:43 < pbunny> limited opportunities
15:43 < jast> it's still encrypted o/~
15:43 < Alan> jast: ... the bit of code that reads the private key from the dongle can't be encrypted with the key that's in the dongle
15:43 < pbunny> jast: encryption password is intercepted
15:43 < Alan> otherwise it couldn't run
15:43 < jast> the private key is _never_ read from the dongle
15:43 < jast> the dongle uses it ONLY to authenticate you
15:43 < Alan> or whoever has the machine
15:44 < pbunny> jast: can you explain in more detail how will you mount encrypted partitions/disks ?
15:44 < jast> it also contains another secret key used for disk decryption, sent out to the OS after a system integrity check (and after you have authenticated yourself)
15:44 < Alan> jast: the authentication can still be intercepted
15:44 < jast> yes, but since the secret key is unknown, that doesn't matter
15:44 < jast> asymmetric cryptography, you know
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15:44 < jast> challenge-response
15:45 < jast> ever heard of any of those?
15:45 < pbunny> jast: hosting provider can do mitm as he still has all the keys
15:45 < jast> where from?
15:45 < pbunny> unless you drove to him physically and configured server by yourself
15:45 < jast> yes, that's called colocation
15:46 < jast> obviously you can't do any of this if you use hardware provided by the provider
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15:47 < jast> and now, if you've set up a secure server box (with tampering sensors), things should be pretty good
15:48 < jast> I still wouldn't give critical data to anyone else, but we're talking about minecraft servers here, for which pretty much anything is overkill
15:48 < Alan> so, now that we've thoroughly explored fantasy-land...
15:48 < Alan> you don't co-located critically sensitive information
15:48 < Alan> minecraft servers are not critically sensitive information
15:48 < Alan> oh
15:48 < Alan> haha
15:48 < Alan> 2 people saying the same thing, must be true
15:48 < jast> yeah, that's how it works
15:49 < Alan> I hope not
15:49 < Alan> otherwise we're all screwed
15:49 < jast> yes we are
15:49 < jast> boom
15:49 < Alan> anyway, pretty sure my life isn't going to be enriched by staying here
15:49 < Alan> good luck with whatever things you attempt to do
15:49 < jast> took you long enough to figure that out :}
15:50 < Alan> no, i just stuck around for the rage
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15:53 < jast> dx: EC2 offers an instance type with 244 GB RAM for "just" $3.50/h :}
15:54 < dx> jast: nice
15:54 < dav1d> 244GB ram, not bad
15:54 < jast> also 88 bogocores
15:54 < dx> jast: i actually needed to do a heavy video encoding job once, grabbed one server with 48gb ram for 40 cents an hour or so
15:55 < jast> yeah, I did something similar once
15:55 < dx> never knew what the provider was and i paid the guy in bitcoins lol
15:55 < dx> kinda shady but it was little money for what i had to do
15:55 < dx> and it worked!
15:56 <+Fador> dx: and now they have a copy of your videos? =D
15:56 < dx> ...well
15:56 < dx> it was just anime. lol.
15:57 <+Fador> ^_^
15:57 <+Fador> -!- Fador [fador@hentai.fi]
15:57 < dx> lewd
15:57 < dx> a friend had to send his only PC to repair something, and it took a really long while, like two months
15:57 < dx> he had a PS3 but it doesn't support the usual codecs
15:58 <+Fador> like..HEVC ;)
15:58 < dx> so i offered to encode all the episodes he missed from the season, thought it would be fun
15:58 < dx> lol hevc
15:58 < dx> well, actually, no softsubbed mkv and no 10bit. really common situation.
15:59 < dx> nobody supports 10bit ever
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15:59 <+Fador> http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/articleDetails.jsp?tp=&arnumber=6324420 <- I was writing a paper about HEVC
15:59 < dx> whoa.
16:00 < dx> ...but no thanks, i'll pass
16:00 < dx> i barely know how to get decent results with the x264 command line tool :P
16:00 <+Fador> http://www.cs.tut.fi/~moncef/publications/complexity-analysis-ISCAS-2012.pdf my other paper about it that you can actually read without paying ;D
16:00 <+Fador> hehe, sure, HEVC was standardized just few months ago
16:01 < dx> and fansubbers are already considering using it as soon as possible
16:02 <+Fador> well it does reduce the size 50% with the same quality..=D
16:03 < dx> at the cost of a lot more people not being able to watch it!
16:03 <+Fador> sure!
16:03 <+Fador> they can watch it in the *future* ;D
16:03 < dx> actually they did that already with hi10p, and the hardware decoders haven't caught up
16:04 < dx> (they probably don't care about it)
16:05 <+Fador> the switch to 10bit was quite fast after x264 started supporting it
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16:08 < dx> in hindsight, the only decent ways to handle it would be either adopting it ASAP like they did, or not adopting it at all
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16:09 < dx> as in, there was no reason to delay it if stuff that isn't ffmpeg isn't planning to implement it too
16:09 < dx> (ffmpeg as a generalization because i'm too lazy to check alternate software only implementations)
16:10 < dx> (we all know ffmpeg has a monopoly on the codec market anyway)
16:12 < Stormx2> dx, libav? :P
16:12 < jast> libav is pretty much the same thing
16:12 < dx> Stormx2: same shit
16:12 < jast> except it appears to be a pointless fork
16:12 < jast> gstreamer might have it's own implementation
16:12 < jast> s/'//, gah
16:12 < Stormx2> dx, not necessarily, they hate eachother don't they? I think there are differences
16:13 < jast> yeah
16:13 < dx> oh, true, gstreamer reimplements some stuff
16:13 < dx> Stormx2: lol, yeah
16:13 < jast> ffmpeg merges stuff from libav, and libav hates ffmpeg so much that they rewrite everything themselves
16:13 < jast> also they care even less about compatibility
16:13 < dx> is libav only used by mplayer2?
16:14 < dx> they sure know how to get confusing names
16:14 < jast> debian seems to have switched to it
16:15 < jast> for clarification: ffmpeg comprises an ffmpeg command-line tool and libavcodec, libavformat and a few other similarly-named ones. libav comprises an avconv command-line tool and libavcodec, libavformat and a few other similarly-named ones.
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16:15 < dx> yep
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16:16 < dx> completely different groups of people with names that are pretty much the same
16:17 < dx> in other COMPLETELY UNRELATED news, there's a mc 1.5 pre-release
16:17 < dx> i bet you didn't expect me to say something minecraft-related in this channel
16:17 < jast> unpossible
16:18 < dx> the changelog says 'removed herobrine' - that wasn't in any of the previous snapshots, can we get a burger vitrine diff to see if the herobrine entity is gone?
16:18 < dx> IIRC it got re-added in the first snapshot of the 1.5 branch
16:18 < Gregor> Hyuk
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16:19 < dx> oh nice, we actually have a burger diff up already
16:20 < dx> i thought it had stopped working a few snapshots ago
16:20 < dx> thanks to whoever fixed it
16:20 <+sadimusi> I didn't fix it, I mad one manually
16:20 < eddyb> mad?
16:21 <+sadimusi> most toppings still don't work with the new versions :/
16:21 < Gregor> Well, having to do them manually can be pretty infuriating.
16:21 <+sadimusi> especially block
16:21 <+sadimusi> *blocks
16:21 < dx> sadimusi: :(
16:21 < eddyb> so sad the burger machine isn't as automated as it once was :(
16:22 < dx> we can still hire 17 year old employees and pay them minimal wages to make the burgers, don't worry
16:22 < dx> although sadimusi is probably nowhere near a 17 year old burger flipper and he does it for free, so <3
16:25 < dx> the language entries of tile/item are still good enough as a summary
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16:30 < Stormx2> is the pre-release protocol page up-to-date?
16:32 < dx> you can compare the burger output with it
16:32 < Stormx2> Looks like it's all there except for 0x3F
16:42 < pbunny> anybody feels like continuing "why java is bad for minecraft servers" discussion?
16:44 < dx> nah
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16:49 < dx> http://i.imgur.com/kxsS6bh.gif
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18:16 < shoghicp> hi!
18:16 < shoghicp> When an user is killed, it sends the Entity Status packet
18:16 < shoghicp> and after that?
18:16 < shoghicp> so, if it respawns
18:17 < shoghicp> The entity is despawned?
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18:46 < Grum> <pbunny> Stormx2: education is not important in programming <-- he's actually right in that :p
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18:48 < Grum> <pbunny> anybody feels like continuing "why java is bad for minecraft servers" discussion? <-- yeah!
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18:55 < Valdiralita> why not "java is bad for complex games"
18:58 < Grum> hard to define complex; also not true
18:58 < Valdiralita> i just dont like java :)
18:58 < Grum> because?
18:59 < ShaRose> java has some dumb parts, anyone can admit that
18:59 < ShaRose> "unsigned is too hard" - gosling
18:59 < Grum> it has too many libraries? it has too much collected cruft they keep in for 'backwards retardility' ?
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19:01 < ShaRose> "Quiz any C developer about unsigned, and pretty soon you discover that almost no C developers actually understand what goes on with unsigned, what unsigned arithmetic is." - The actual quote from James Gosling, one of the main people behind java
19:01 < Grum> to me the only reason to use unsigned is because .. well there is no arithmetic
19:02 < Grum> just seems easier to not have to worry about negative overflows :p
19:02 < ShaRose> I like using unsigned stuff for packing and such
19:02 < ShaRose> it also makes interop less retarded
19:02 < Grum> yeah
19:03 < Valdiralita> packing is great :D
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19:04 < ShaRose> but yeah, not really a fan of java. as usual I compare it to C# and there are a few things I like about java, but mostly C# kicks the shit out of it
19:04 < Grum> so, is there a 'maven' like thing for C# ?
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19:05 < Valdiralita> http://byldan.codeplex.com/
19:05 < ShaRose> https://nuget.org/ was the one I was thinking of
19:07 < Grum> so, can you properly code C# when you are *NOT* on windows?
19:07 < Grum> does it have a rich ide you can use?
19:08 < ShaRose> monodevelop I guess, but visual studio really is ~that~ awesome
19:10 < Grum> yes, but it doesnt run on anything but ..... the os you do not want to use for development :p
19:11 < Gregor> (Or: Deployment!)
19:12 <+pdelvo> Do you know blockscape? http://www.blockscape.com/v2/
19:14 < Grum> nope
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19:28 < jast> I hope nobody brings up eclipse as a stellar example of a great IDE
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19:29 < Grum> Eclipse is the bestest ide
19:29 < jast> it's so good that people have made data mining tools based on it
19:30 < jast> (OH GOD WHYYY)
19:31 < superjoe> jast, if you're writing java, what's a better IDE?
19:32 < Grum> anything other than eclipse :/
19:32 < Grum> I prefer Intellij
19:32 < superjoe> that's not an answer
19:32 < jast> I'm not writing java
19:32 < superjoe> ok that's an answer
19:32 < jast> I hear netbeans isn't as bad, either... was that the name? can't remember
19:33 < Gregor> I got a desktop with 16GB of RAM so I could run Firefox and Eclipse.
19:33 < Gregor> Not at the same time, of course.
19:33 < jast> yeah
19:34 < jast> I assembled a new PC the other day, with 16 GB RAM, too (finally!)
19:34 < jast> I nearly melted the universe trying run firefox and eclipse at the same time
19:36 < jast> fortunately the circuit breaker kicked in first
19:36 < Gregor> *whew*
19:36 < Gregor> I've actually had the power supply of a computer burst into flames once :)
19:36 < jast> it's an especially sensitive circuit breaker
19:36 < jast> it often switches if I plug in in a device
19:36 < jast> my previous PSU went up in smoke
19:36 < Gregor> As an added advantage, you could also run on Minecraft server, so long as you don't have more than about three users and they don't go too far from spawn.
19:36 < jast> while the computer wasn't even turned on
19:37 < jast> now you're pushing it
19:37 <+Ac-town> you'd also need a ssd then
19:37 < Grum> Gregor: so why did you give eclipse so much memory?
19:37 < jast> eclipse doesn't ask... it just takes
19:37 < Gregor> Grum: HELLO I AM MAKES JOKES
19:37 < Grum> its java, it cant
19:37 < jast> java always takes
19:37 < jast> default heap space size, sure... the rest of the RAM is filled with GC metadata
19:38 < jast> bah, s/space //
19:38 < Grum> :( ....
19:38 < jast> like so many other things, java's RAM usage always scales with the total amount of RAM available
19:38 < Grum> doesnt work that way sigh
19:38 < jast> even if you have infinity RAM
19:39 < jast> then it takes up infinity*0.9 RAMs
19:39 < Grum> if you let it, maybe
19:39  * Gregor munches on popcorn.
19:39 < jast> I am king of math
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19:44 < Calinou> <jast> my previous PSU went up in smoke
19:44 < Calinou> *cough*advance*cough*
19:44 < jast> not following
19:44 < Calinou> 16GB RAM is pointless unless you do video editing or using a ramdisk for a good reason :P
19:45 <+Ac-town> cache
19:45 <+Ac-town> so its not pointless :)
19:45 < jast> does virtualization count?
19:45 < Calinou> yeah
19:45  * Calinou has 12GB RAM
19:45 < jast> and insane programming experiments
19:45 < Calinou> 1620MB used right now, not counting cache
19:45 < jast> I intend to tinker with Slow Fourier Transforms
19:45 < Calinou> with cache I'm at about 5GB
19:46 < jast> (that's not a real thing... yet)
19:46 < jast> well I had 2 GB RAM before, and I had serious issues with that in normal usage
19:46 <+Ac-town>              total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
19:46 <+Ac-town> Mem:      24683072   20179468    4503604          0     742208   16973648
19:46 <+Ac-town> cache everything
19:46 < jast> well of course
19:47 < jast> unless you're using windows, which is comparably crappy at caching
19:47 <+Ac-town> cache the planet
19:47 < jast> and don't forget to cache the cache
19:47 < jast> massive speed-ups to be had
19:47  * Calinou high fives jast for linux
19:47  * Calinou uses xubuntu 12.10, archers gonna arch
19:47 < jast> tbh I'm on windows right now
19:47 < Calinou> ah :P
19:47 <+Ac-town> I'm on gentoo
19:47 < jast> my plan is to run linux in a VM and do most of my work in that
19:48 < jast> but I need my games and also my DAW, and both need windows, and I'm way too lazy to reboot all the time
19:49 < Gregor> <Calinou> 16GB RAM is pointless unless you do video editing or using a ramdisk for a good reason  // OR unless you want to run Firefox *sage nod*
19:49 < Calinou> firefox eats like 2GB with a lot of tabs
19:49 <+Ac-town> only like 1.5GB max for me
19:49 < Calinou> uses more RAM than chromium with one tab but less with 15+ tabs
19:50 <+Ac-town> on nightly with a bunch of addons
19:50 < Gregor> WHY, WHY do people not understand when I'm making a joke *sigh*
19:50 <+Ac-town> we do
19:50 < Gregor> Anyway, my 16GB RAM is mainly for GC experiments and running several VMs at the same time ^^
19:51 < jast> I was aware that 16GB RAM is pretty pointless for normal usage when I spent all the money
19:51 <+Ac-town> imo just buy and max your mobo with ram when you buy it
19:51 <+Ac-town> since ram is pretty cheap
19:52 <+Ac-town> and you can get all the same speeds
19:52 < jast> well, I spent ~$120 on RAM. didn't wanna spend another ~$120 to max it.
19:52 <+Ac-town> what kind of ram?
19:53 < jast> ddr3 1600mhz or something
19:53 < jast> cl9? dunno
19:53 <+Ac-town> spendy
19:53 <+Ac-town> I think I got ddr3 2133 for like 190 total
19:53 <+Ac-town> for 16GB
19:54 < Calinou> that's a lot
19:54 < Calinou> faster RAM gives few improvements unless you use an AMD APU with is IGP
19:54 < Calinou> but if you have the money, why not
19:55 <+Ac-town> it was about thesame as the 1600mhz stuff
19:55 <+Ac-town> so why not
19:56 < Calinou> here, 2×4GB of 1333mhz RAM: 40 euros, 1600: 45 euros, 1866: 50 euros, 2133: 63 euros, 2400: 69 euros
19:56 <+Ac-town> 24gb for that? pretty cheap
19:56 < Calinou> AMD CPUs support 1866 officially, intel 1600, but in both cases you can overclock the RAM to reach its max frequency
19:56 <+Ac-town> yep
19:56 < Calinou> Ac-town: 2x4, get a proper IRC client :P
19:56 < Calinou> × is the proper multiply sign 8D
19:57 <+Ac-town> I do have a proper irc client
19:57 <+Ac-town> might not have the font for that
19:57 <+Ac-town> but jpn and chinese works
19:57 < jast> every decent font has that character
19:57 < Calinou> *buntus just-work-i-ness strikes again 8)
19:57 <+Ac-town> WeeChat 0.4.0 [compiled on Feb  1 2013 02:17:10]
19:57 < jast> and if it doesn't, it shouldn't magically pretend there was nothing there
19:57 <+Ac-town> jast: I have a custom font set for my urxvt
19:58 <+Ac-town> I saw 2?4
19:58 < jast> right, no pity then :}
19:58 <+Ac-town> so I wasn't sure if it was a fuck up on his side or what
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20:04 < Thinkofdeath> Added the new 0x3f packet to the pre-release page
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22:22 < TkTech> Thinkofdeath: Thank you
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22:56 <+Prf_Jakob> #1210 in queue for Oculus, order is ready.
22:56 <+Prf_Jakob> woo
23:03 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: To be honest, I'm more interested in https://getmyo.com/
23:03 < TkTech> (Paired with Google glasses or the like later on, once they can be reflashed)
23:11 <+Prf_Jakob> hmm
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--- Day changed ven. mars 08 2013
00:00 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: (I'm more interested in such technology for mashing up day-to-day things, versus gaming)
00:06 <+Prf_Jakob> ah okay
00:14 <+Amaranth> Prf_Jakob: Off topic: So, how about that mir, eh? :P
00:15 < Stormx2> ubuntu dev reunion time!
00:15  * Stormx2 gets party hats
00:15 <+Prf_Jakob> Amaranth: summed up by "but why"
00:16 <+Amaranth> At least now I know why Alexandros was pulled away from Linaro. I knew it had something to do with mobile
00:17 <+Amaranth> I'm rather amused Canonical and TI sponsored me via Linaro to port compiz/unity to GLES for mobile and are throwing it away
00:17 <+Amaranth> At least that meant it won't live long enough for me to be blamed for it
00:17 <+Prf_Jakob> Hehe
00:18 <+Prf_Jakob> Well I'm hoping at least we can get a good ARM drivers that can be used by Wayland as well.
00:19 <+Amaranth> Sounds like the plan on ARM is to piggy back the Android drivers
00:19 <+Amaranth> So probably not directly usable
00:20 <+Prf_Jakob> yeah
00:20 <+Amaranth> But hey, we put up with copies everywhere anyway, just use shm and accept another copy :P
00:21 <+Prf_Jakob> heh
00:23 <+Amaranth> Maybe I should drop some of these Ubuntu channels and idle in #wayland now, seems like some interesting discussions happen there now
00:24 <+Prf_Jakob> Amaranth: well fair enough of doing their own thing, but they in the prosses managed to take a dump on Wayland which pissed people.
00:25 <+Amaranth> Yeah, that was just dumb considering how easy it was to prove them wrong.
00:25 <+Amaranth> I am interested in how they're planning to handle input though
00:26 <+Prf_Jakob> Steal more from Andriod apperently.
00:27 <+Amaranth> Yeah, seems like the idea is the android permissions system
00:27 <+Amaranth> I was hoping for something more interesting
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12:37 < pbunny> on wiki, does yaw stands for horizontal rotation and pitch for vertical?
12:41 < zh32> http://www.allstar.fiu.edu/aero/images/pic5-1.gif :P
12:41 < pbunny> zh32: yeah, i googled it
12:41 < pbunny> pitch isn't working for mobs, at least for pigs for some reason
12:42 < pbunny> they always stand horizontally
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13:27 < eddyb> zh32: why exis?
13:27 < eddyb> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exis
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13:55 < pbunny> wiki bot not working?
13:56 < pbunny> http://wiki.vg/wiki/index.php?title=Protocol&curid=11&diff=3659&oldid=3647 - i updated 0x18
14:00 < l4mRh4X0r> pbunny, I assume that's not the 1.5 protocol info?
14:14 < pbunny> hm, it was tested on 1.4.7
14:15 < pbunny> well i just switched yaw and pitch fields
14:15 < pbunny> also i fixed comment at the bottom, because when i sent 127 client crashed
14:15 < pbunny> sending 0 0 127 worked, because mob must send at least 1 metadata object as stated here - http://wiki.vg/Entities#Entity_Metadata_Format
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16:22 < ellisvlad> Hi everyone
16:22 <+sadimusi> hi ellisvlad 
16:23 < ellisvlad> quick question about chunk sending :P
16:23 < ellisvlad> If anyone can help, what is the 0x32 "PreChunk" packet?
16:24 <+sadimusi> it's not used anymore iirc
16:26 < ellisvlad> hmm, then I can't figure out why my chunk sending isn't working xD
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18:31 < dav1d> lol
18:31 < dav1d> "Across all D projects on Ohloh, 11% of all source code lines are comments. For BraLa, this figure is only 3%."
18:31 < dav1d> who needs comments pfft
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18:31 < dav1d> the 3% are probably coming from stb_image.c xD
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18:39 < Gregor> dav1d: Naw, there's probably one mis-labeled project that it thinks is D and 100% comments, which single-handedly makes up for 11% of all D lines in the system.
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20:04 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to snapshot [+1/-0/±6] http://git.io/gSVO5A
20:04 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 13be25b - Completed update to 1.5 pre-release
20:07 < rom1504> superjoe: hi, I think I'm going to try again to make mineflayer's craft function to work, do you have any idea why it doesn't work and how to make it work ?
20:07 < rom1504> and why the inventory is getting corrupted after a rejected transation
20:07 < superjoe> rom1504, hi. no - I have been holding off until the new version is released, because I think it will be changed anyway
20:08 < superjoe> no sense in doing the work twice
20:08 < rom1504> oh ok, there will be changes about the inventory in the new version ?
20:08 < rom1504> when should it be released ?
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20:09 < superjoe> http://www.mojang.com/2013/03/minecraft-redstone-update-pre-release/
20:09 < superjoe> march 13
20:11 < rom1504> oh, good
20:11 < rom1504> let's wait then
20:11 < superjoe> ok
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20:29 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 11 commits to master [+58/-0/±49] http://git.io/KEyA6w
20:29 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 3c84ee8 - Initial update to 13w02a
20:29 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 480fd3c - Added nether quartz drop
20:29 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 362a70f - Merge branch 'master' into snapshot
20:29 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn de7cfbd - Added Minecart with TNT
20:29 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 527f2eb - Merge branch 'snapshot' of https://github.com/SirCmpwn/Craft.Net
20:29 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 7f83330 - Updated to 13w03a protocol
20:29 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 4f908e4 - Added dropper block
20:29 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn b48139b - Added minecart with hopper item
20:29 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 5f18f04 - Added log-like quartz orientation
20:29 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn dbd3237 - Updated version info in readme
20:29 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 76ff153 - Merge branch 'snapshot' of https://github.com/SirCmpwn/Craft.Net
20:29 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to snapshot [+2/-0/±3] http://git.io/wV33_A
20:29 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 7404dc9 - Added scoreboard management to Craft.Net.Server
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22:36 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to snapshot [+1/-0/±6] http://git.io/ovrYww
22:36 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn d4585dc - Added team support
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22:50 < Not-001> [fNbt] fragmer pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-0/±2] http://git.io/5CtVyg
22:50 < Not-001> [fNbt] fragmer 8afa561 - Improvements in NbtReader error reporting. Added InvalidReaderStateException class.
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23:57 < bobness> Hrm, when I send a shift-click on a slot to the server, and close the window, I don't get any update packets?  ..does the server just figure that, on click acceptance, I know what to do as far moving stuff around in the local inventory (e.g., I know max stack sized, and to add an item to the first available stack and/or free slot, or am I missing something? 
23:59 < bobness> by 'update packets' I mean, 'set_slot'.
--- Day changed sam. mars 09 2013
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02:09 < bobness> If you send a right-click to the server while holding an item, and the slot you're clicking on has the same item (but is full), does this result in an accepted or rejected transaction?
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03:23 < EvokeR> I've been using the wiki to work on a lua minecraft client. Theres just one thing keeping me from logging into a server... I don't know how the server hash is calculated when you decline authentication :/
03:23 < EvokeR> *Decline encryption
03:26 < EvokeR> I've tried what seems obvious (exclude shared secret, replace it with a null char, use just the server id, etc) but no luck.
03:27 < EvokeR> Does anyone here know how to do this?
03:27 < dexter0> Outside of some crappy *exploit* there is no way for clients to disable encryption iirc.
03:29 < EvokeR> The wiki says sending a 0xCD will skip it, but is kinda iffy whether or not it works in online mode...
03:32 < EvokeR> And just doing the encryption won't work... This platform simply can't do RSA in pure lua fast enough :/
03:32 < dexter0> well you can stick around until someone who really knows the protocol turns up and gives you the bad news.
03:43 <+AndrewPH> are all packets encrypted, including chunks?
03:44 < dexter0> beginning midway through the handshake, yes
03:44 < EvokeR> After the client authenticates, yes.
03:52 <+AndrewPH> what's the point in encrypting movement and chunk data?
03:53 <+AndrewPH> seems really wastefull
03:53 <+AndrewPH> wasteful, even
03:55 < EvokeR> Because its easier than only encrypting some of the stream, I suppose.
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04:31 < EvokeR> Does anybody know how to calculate the server hash when you decline encryption?
04:39 < TkTech> EvokeR: Probably, but it's late for most of the guys here. Might have better luck asking again in the morning.
04:42 < Not-001> [fNbt] fragmer pushed 2 commits to master [+1/-0/±8] http://git.io/VYjJ9w
04:42 < Not-001> [fNbt] fragmer ac3ea53 - Documentation improvements in NbtReader, and overhaul in progress for NbtSerializer.
04:42 < Not-001> [fNbt] fragmer fbbcd72 - Further work on NbtSerializer. Added INbtSerializable interface, for classes that want to provide custom reading/writing routines.
04:43 < EvokeR> Alright thanks :)
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05:50 < bobness> Is it normal to hate callbacks?
05:50 < bobness> ..it seems very natural..
05:51 < bobness> ..but so many people use them..
05:54 < dexter0> how to do asynchronous *anything* w/o them?
05:55 < dx> GOTO, obviously
05:56 < dx> you just have to find how to pass GOTO labels as parameters
06:03 < bobness> Already did that with GOTO.  It's better than callbacks, but for some reason people don't like it.
06:04 < bobness> (that was a joke)
06:05 < bobness> I guess it's not callbacks altogether that I don't like.  Event systems use callbacks, and I don't usually mind those.
06:13 < dx> bobness: ...so what do you hate?
06:21 < bobness> ..oh, most things, particularly if there isn't a good reason.  But in this case, it's probably relatively accurate to say I hate debugging callbacks in pre-existing code when they weren't well-organized.
06:30 < bobness> ..particularly when I realize I've been contributing to the mess as opposed to writing a little event handler.
06:31 < Not-001> [fNbt] fragmer pushed 3 commits to master [+1/-1/±8] http://git.io/wL_DDQ
06:31 < Not-001> [fNbt] fragmer 11c6f1e - Added NbtTag.HasValue property. Finished rewriting NbtSerializer.Deserialize
06:31 < Not-001> [fNbt] fragmer cd6a9fd - Added documentation to NbtSerializer
06:31 < Not-001> [fNbt] fragmer 2fca16e - Documented fNbt.Serialization attributes.
06:31 <+Scootabyte> Now, just gotta write some unit tests, and next fNbt will be good to go
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10:28 < Not-001> [fNbt] fragmer pushed 1 commit to master [+3/-2/±4] http://git.io/UWFdEA
10:28 < Not-001> [fNbt] fragmer 8a62d18 - Fixed NbtReader defaulting to little-endian encoding. Added unit tests for NbtSerializer and fixed a couple serialization bugs that were caught by the tests.
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11:49 < Not-001> [fNbt] fragmer pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-1/±3] http://git.io/gXcx5w
11:49 < Not-001> [fNbt] fragmer 0198010 - Removed NbtIgnoreOnNull attribute. Now all properties with null value are ignored. NbtSerializer will now use DefaultValueAttribute to optionally initialize omitted properties while deserializing.
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12:07 <+Amaranth> Well, dang, it looks like vmwgfx doesn't work with gnome-shell
12:08 <+Amaranth> Err, what channel am I in?
12:08 < edk> mcdevs, apparently
12:09 < edk> it's official, minecraft is going to use gnome-shell as its HUD
12:15 < dx> edk: not minecraft, just bukkit
12:15 < edk> oh?
12:15 < dx> Amaranth is a bukkit dev :P
12:16 <+Amaranth> I'm trying to abandon Ubuntu and failing
12:16 < edk> yes..
12:16 < edk> Amaranth, in favour of?
12:16 <+Amaranth> Obvious choice: Fedora
12:16 < dx> heh
12:17 <+Amaranth> gnome-shell works surprisingly well with llvmpipe (software rendering) while running virtualized
12:17 < dx> sweet
12:17 < dx> but i'm pretty sure that if you use virtualbox you get opengl in the VM too
12:18 <+Amaranth> I may or may not have put some time in to making compiz work correctly with vmwgfx so I guess I shouldn't be surprised gnome-shell falls over
12:18 < dx> oh, vmware
12:19 < dx> Amaranth: is your host windows?
12:19 <+Amaranth> No
12:19 < dx> oh ok
12:22 < dx> i think the only point of using vmware is getting emulated directx with a linux host.. and the performance is terrible anyway
12:23 < dx> minecraft inside virtualbox "works" for me, with 5 fps and bottlenecking horribly on CPU
12:23 < dx> but it's good enough to do some tests
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15:11 < edk> Sietsem, ಠ_ಠ
15:15 < TobiX> Yay, Public away messages, those were already uncool 15 years ago...
15:48 < edk> they became uncool the same day they were invented
16:08 <+ammar2> edk: still better than the "Now listening to" messages
16:09 < edk> ammar2, that's true I suppose
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19:28 < EvokeR> Does anybody know how to calculate the server hash when you decline protocol encryption?
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19:48 < Gregor> EvokeR: It's just "-"
19:48 < Gregor> Err, wait
19:48 < Gregor> You can't decline encryption.
19:48 < Gregor> You can decline authentication.
19:48 < Gregor> If you decline authentication it's "-"
19:50 < EvokeR> I thought I could send a 0xCD with a payload of 0 to bypass encryption. Or does that only work in offline mode?
20:10 <+Fador> EvokeR: send login response (0x01) instead of encryption request (0xFD) to skip encryption
20:10 <+Fador> and yeah, you can only skip encryption in "offline mode" ;)
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20:12 <+Amaranth> It's also a quirk that is probably unintended so I would make sure you can actually deal with encryption too
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20:15 <+Fador> (privmsg'd the last few lines)
20:17 < Evoker> Well I can deal with encryption... The problem is my pure lua implementation takes five and a half minutes to calculate the RSA :/
20:19 < edk> haha
20:21 < Evoker> I managed to get it down from around half an hour :P
20:21 <+Fador> =D
20:22 <+Fador> ..use some external software to calculate it and then just reuse?
20:23 < Evoker> If only... Sadly I can't do that on my iPhone :/ :3
20:24 < Evoker> And the verify token gets in the way :/
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20:25 < Evoker> And I just realized the verify token is encrypted separately from the shared secret X/
20:28 < Evoker> (By external software I thought you meant C library :P)
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20:30 <+Fador> well that's what I thought you might want to use but...=)
20:31 <+Fador> but sure you can just create one RSA keypair with any software and just..use it
20:33 < Evoker> Yeah that would be ideal, but Im not in that much control of the environment... I'm trying to use an ios lua app with a socket library :/
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20:34 < Evoker> Yeah the shared secret is easy... If only the verify token was in aes...
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20:37 <+Fador> I don't even remember how that whole encryption works, I coded it to my server right after it was taken into use
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20:47 < TkTech> Evoker: No access to luajit? This is a prime candidate to greatly benefit from JIT'ing.
20:48 < Evoker> Hah. I don't blame you. For most platforms you just import a crypto library and you're done. Honestly I don't know why they did anything beyond the sha1 to prevent the man-in-the-middle attacks...
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20:51 < Evoker> Yeah luajit would be great. But on an iPhone... Well I'm not an ios dev. So not happening anytime soon :/
20:55 < Evoker> I just want logging in and chat working. I didn't think I was asking that much when I started this project. :/
20:55 < Gregor> <Fador> and yeah, you can only skip encryption in "offline mode" ;) // I had no idea you could bypass encryption in offline mode... would've made testing much easier X-D
20:56 <+Fador> Gregor: yeah, I noticed you _can_ do that..after I had implemented the encryption ;D
20:57 < Gregor> I wonder if the upstream server allows you to start unencrypted, play that way for a bit, then do the encryption handshake later X-D
21:00 <+Fador> I dont think so ;)
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21:04 < Evoker> Yeah that would require both the client and the server to shut up until the handshake finishes. ;)
21:14 < Gregor> Mmmm, Idonno, depends on how it's implemented. Other things could go on so long as there's a very clear "flag point" for both sides (which there almost assuredly is not, or one direction is predicated on the other and so would fail in unpredicable ways)
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22:05 < EvokeR> Well that didn't work. I tried sending 0xCD01 as a keep-alive. Apparently the login process is timed, not just a timeout :/
22:33 < Grum> oh yes it is
22:33 < Grum> EvokeR: just for the reason you are messing around with it ;P
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22:21 <+AndrewPH> TkTech: https://github.com/Herzult/SimplePHPEasyPlus wow this looks incredible. i might start using this for everything.
22:21 <+AndrewPH> really simplifies one of the most difficult php issues.
22:21 < TkTech> Haha
22:21 < TkTech> That was on reddit a few months ago, the comments on that thread were hilarious.
22:22 < TkTech> I think "Enterprise" was mentioned about 9001 times
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01:18 < MooseElkingtons> what happened to wiki.vg? o_O
01:19 < dexter0> nothing?
01:19 < MooseElkingtons> that was odd.
01:20 < MooseElkingtons> the page wasn't loading any content.
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01:39 < dreadiscool> Hi! Does anyone know how to enable AES encryption on a datainputstream and dataoutputstream?
01:39 < dreadiscool> I have all the the prerequisites set up, the key and all
01:39 < dreadiscool> And I have the socket
01:40 <+sadimusi> java?
01:40 < dreadiscool> Yeah
01:40 <+sadimusi> the easiest way is to use bouncycastle
01:40 < dreadiscool> Trying to make a client :o
01:40 < dreadiscool> :3
01:40 < dreadiscool> Well, I already set up RSA and all those shenanigans without bouncy, is there a way to do it without bouncy?
01:41 <+sadimusi> I don't think so
01:41 <+sadimusi> you can probably reuse some of this https://github.com/SimpleServer/SimpleServer/blob/master/src/simpleserver/stream/Encryption.java
01:41 < dreadiscool> Kool, thanks, will take a look (:
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01:55 <+md_5> dreadiscool / sadimusi you atcually can
01:56 <+md_5> Check out BungeeCord/EncryptionUtil
02:04 < dreadiscool> Thanks md_5 :D
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02:52 < Stormx2> Here's something interesting for you all
02:52 < Stormx2> the 'show nameplate' thing is in EntityLiving, not EntityCreature
02:53 < Stormx2> which means it may be possible to hide player nameplates
02:58 < dreadiscool> Hmm, can someone help me with this
02:58 < dreadiscool> I have some kind of login system set up
02:58 < dreadiscool> http://pastie.org/6447464
02:58 < dreadiscool> But, I'm having trouble getting past encryption
02:59 < dreadiscool> Once I enable AES encryption, everything just breaks down and locks up
03:03 < dreadiscool> Yay, I got it to work :D
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09:37 < pbunny> hi.
09:38 < pbunny> clients show message like "Item entity 12 has no item?!" in console for every entity i dump
09:39 < pbunny> i send 0x28 in separate packet right after 0x17
09:39 < pbunny> items are shown correctly in clients, but these messages concern me
09:40 < pbunny> what is the right way to spawn item?
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11:04 < rom1504> pbunny: i think i saw these messages when connected to a vanilla server
11:04 < pbunny> rom1504: do you see them every time?
11:05 < pbunny> because clients see them for every item i spawn
11:07 < rom1504> I don't know
11:27 < SinZ> what version are you developing for?
11:40 < pbunny> 1.4.7
11:41 < pbunny> iirc protocol hasn't changed in 1.5
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12:08 < SinZ> it did...
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12:20 < pbunny> what packet should i use to show player's held item to other players?
12:20 < pbunny> i.e. if he's holding a diamond sword
12:21 <+Fador> Entity Equipment (0x05) should do that
12:27 < pbunny> thx
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12:36 < pbunny> http://wiki.vg/Protocol#Player_List_Item_.280xC9.29
12:36 < pbunny> "The server sends one packet per user per tick, amounting to 20 packets/s for 1 online user, 40 for 2, and so forth. "
12:36 < pbunny> oh god why?
12:36 < pbunny> why not just send 1 packet to everybody when some player's state changes?
12:37 < pbunny> will it be okay with vanilla client?
12:38 < Stormx2> pbunny, I documented that when 1.9pre came out. It may not be true anymore.;
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12:50 < SinZ> pbunny: thats how vannila originally does it, and bukkit were fast to change that on their software wrapper
12:51 < SinZ> client really doesn't enforce the packet per tick rule
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16:03 < Stormx2> Hey folks. Does anyone know if and where `save-off` / `save-on` are stored? Doesn't seem to be in server.properties or level.dat. Do I need to turn it off every boot?
16:04 < jast> I'd guess so... I think it's mostly designed for temporary use when you want to backup the world
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16:07 < pbunny> i have some weird problems with 0x23 (entity headlook) packet
16:07 < pbunny> player's head just can't show up right
16:08 < pbunny> is the wiki correct?
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16:16 < pbunny> weird.. when i send 0x23 later, it's fine. but not after 0x14
16:16 < pbunny> though i send the same value as yaw
16:17 < pbunny> what is the right time to send first 0x23 of player to another player when the latter joins?
16:18 < pbunny> if i sent 0x23 right after 0x14, head stays unturned (yaw 0), regardless of yaw of the body (which is correctly sent in 0x14)
16:18 < pbunny> when i send it later (i.e. when player turns) it's fine
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16:24 < pbunny> and if i don't send headlook packet after 0x14, head is at yaw 0 anyway
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21:13 < dreadiscool> I'm trying to write a client for Minecraft, and I'm getting stuck on this part
21:13 < dreadiscool> Enabling AES encryption
21:13 < dreadiscool> Is the key for the AES the shared secret that the client generates?
21:13 < dreadiscool> http://wiki.vg/Protocol_Encryption
21:13 < dreadiscool> First time dealing with network crypto :3
21:14 < Gregor> Yes.
21:17 < dreadiscool> Yeah, the 16 byte long shared secret that the client generates, right?
21:18 < Gregor> Yes.
21:19 < Gregor> It also uses it as the initialization vector, which is one of those things that sounds like a bad idea and probably is.
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21:20 < dreadiscool> Initialization vector?
21:20 < dreadiscool> What is that? D:
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--- Log closed lun. mars 11 21:45:38 2013
--- Log opened lun. mars 11 21:46:13 2013
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21:46 !card.freenode.net [freenode-info] channel flooding and no channel staff around to help? Please check with freenode support: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp
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23:40 < dreadiscool> Can someone please help me
23:43 < dreadiscool> WHenever I try to write a client to connect to a mc server, it fails
23:43 < dreadiscool> http://pastie.org/6455688#
23:44 < dreadiscool> The moment I send the 0xCD client statuses packet, it disconnects me with 'Failed to verify username'
23:44 < dreadiscool> I've figured out that it is because my serverid or something doesn't match when I check joinserver.jsp or whatever
23:44 < dreadiscool> But I have pored over this for a lot of time, and I am honestly clueless
23:44 < dreadiscool> Can someone point me in the right direction?
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23:52 < dreadiscool> Ah I figured it out
23:53 < dreadiscool> Thanks everyone for your help, especially you md_5. You're my favorite developer ;p
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08:54 < pbunny> hi
08:54 < pbunny> any useful tool to find mutex race conditions in C ?
08:54 < pbunny> or lack of mutexes
08:55 < pbunny> i.e. detect when one thread can intervene with another, or when they can theoretically lock each other
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15:18 < pbunny> http://wiki.vg/Protocol#Open_Window_.280x64.29
15:18 < pbunny> what is the purpose of title field?
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15:44 < [z]2> when you rename stuff using the anvil, it shows your name at the top of the window
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16:55 < TobiX> [z]2: You can rename storage containers? Since when?
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17:39 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 5 commits to master [+4/-0/±21] http://git.io/gYWi2A
17:39 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn a48573a - Added 13w04a packets
17:39 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn e3b1eae - Updated packet and field names to reflect use
17:39 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 13be25b - Completed update to 1.5 pre-release
17:39 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 7404dc9 - Added scoreboard management to Craft.Net.Server
17:39 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn d4585dc - Added team support
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17:45 < Not-001> [PartyCraft] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/H59Vfw
17:45 < Not-001> [PartyCraft] SirCmpwn 645a4f3 - Update to 1.5
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18:02 < rom1504_> superjoe: it's time to update to 1.5 ^^
18:11 < superjoe> word!
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18:16 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±13] http://git.io/iLTLXQ
18:16 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 67b41de - Improved metadata dictionary usage
18:18 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/BcFgKA
18:18 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 16cf484 - Fixed metadata encoding for strings
18:19 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/F0R20A
18:19 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 6f0a7f7 - Removed test code from ItemEntity
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18:22 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±6] http://git.io/eZbTAQ
18:22 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 64684a3 - Added internal default constructors to metadata items, fixes deserialization
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18:25 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/KgcCdQ
18:25 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 01a0ad6 - Changed metadata dictionary decoder to use correct metadata entry constructor
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18:28 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±6] http://git.io/JmzXxw
18:28 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 73fbbd1 - Changed visibility of constructors in metadata entry classes
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18:34 < Not-001> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn pushed 4 commits to master [+0/-0/±9] http://git.io/ZRCsRA
18:34 < Not-001> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn ff6ff42 - Updated Craft.Net
18:34 < Not-001> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn 29a791e - Merge branch 'master' of https://github.com/SirCmpwn/SMProxy
18:34 < Not-001> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn b9b7b71 - 1.5 update
18:34 < Not-001> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn df5ad82 - Merge branch 'master' of https://github.com/SirCmpwn/SMProxy
18:37 < Not-001> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to gh-pages [+1/-0/±1] http://git.io/Rg-9gA
18:37 < Not-001> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn 0dc062c - Updated SMProxy website for 1.5
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19:31 <+ammar2> from SirCmpwn: "SMProxy binaries for 1.5 are up: http://sircmpwn.github.com/SMProxy/"
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19:32 < ashka> hello there, I just had a little question about the minecraft protocol
19:32 < ashka> how does the packets ends ?
19:33 <+ammar2> unfortunately packets don't really end, you'll have to parse them from end to end
19:33 <+ammar2> as in, parse them according to their format as listed on the wiki
19:34 < ashka> oh, okay. thanks
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21:14 < ashka> btw, if anyone can edit the protocol page on mc.kev009.com, the protocol version on 1.5 seems to be 60 
21:23 <+clonejo> ashka: Registering an account isn't much work ;-)
21:23 < ashka> oh it needs that
21:23 < ashka> okay
21:34 <+md_5> ashka http://wiki.vg/Pre-release_protocol
21:34 <+md_5> Some1 please port over
21:34 <+md_5> I'm in a real rush
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21:50 < ashka> just some silly question about here : http://mc.kev009.com/Server_List_Ping / is every character separated with NUL because of UCS-2 string ?
22:02 < edk> ammar2, you around?
22:08 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/5zJIJQ
22:08 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] ammaraskar b270852 - Fix stair orientation (closes #146)
22:10 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/9MZU0Q
22:10 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn b9f5d58 - Made stair up/down orientation use cursor position
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22:26 < ashka> mmh, could anyone confirm that the string length byte is now mandatory in the server list packet server->client ?
22:26 < ashka> (starting from 1.5)
22:27 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±3] http://git.io/qSQpmA
22:27 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 81365e1 - Fixed door orientation, closes #144
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22:51 <+ammar2> edk: whats up
22:53 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/cgCRNQ
22:54 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 612462f - Fixed hunger/eating issues, closes #137
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23:02 < SinZ> wasn't b.wiki.vg suppost to automatically find updates...
23:03 < SinZ> as it gave up on snapshots after 13w05a, but atleast it found the pre-release
23:09 < ashka> mmh, yet another silly question about packets -- how are fields separated ? analyzing a 0x02 (handshake) with wireshark would suggest that it's NUL NUL, but at some point there is NUL DC1(hex 11) NUL 
23:10 < ashka> maybe this hex 11 is part of something, but I can't find anything on the protocol page or the pre-release protocol page
23:11 <+clonejo> ashka: There are no field seperators, you have to know the lengths in advance.
23:12 < ashka> clonejo, but how do I do that for unknown length strings from the client ?
23:12 < SinZ> a string is a short, and byte-array
23:12 < ashka> (like in that very handshake where I don't know the username)
23:13 <+ammar2> as stated in the data types a string is prefixed by a short dictating its length
23:15 < ashka> oh, derp
23:15 < ashka> thanks
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23:39 < inkoate> Where does the "Server id" string in the 0xFD packet come from? Am I missing where in the wiki that is?
23:42 <+Fador> inkoate: you just use some random string
23:42 < inkoate> oh... so it changes each type the server starts?
23:45 <+Fador> I don't really know how vanilla does it but..yes =)
23:47 < inkoate> got it... thanks very much. :)
23:50 < edk> ammar2, back now
23:50 < edk> you still about?
23:50 <+ammar2> yar
23:50 < edk> am i right in thinking you're a logblock developer?
23:50 <+ammar2> you are correct
23:51 < edk> unless you have an official channel I haven't noticed and isn't on espernet, do you have any idea offhand why logblock would work fine, but clearlog would throw mysql permission denied exceptions?
23:51 <+ammar2> #logblock, esper
23:52 <+ammar2> clearlog needs delete permissions on the db
23:52 < edk> balls
23:52 < edk> i hate connecting to that bouncer
23:52 < edk> it has every permission except for grant
23:52 < edk> but i'll connect there
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03:44 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 pushed 3 commits to master [+0/-0/±3] http://git.io/D4enDw
03:44 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] mappum 5f6abad - Updated to protocol 60 (1.5.0)
03:44 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] mappum 4a366d7 - Added stringArray datatype
03:44 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 07505da - Merge pull request #44 from mappum/master Updated to latest protocol
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04:33 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±3] http://git.io/u1RSTQ
04:33 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 09a80dd - all tests passing with newest protocol
04:37 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/2v1uJg
04:37 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 cf73d4d - Release 0.7.9
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05:01 < Not-001> [mcserve] superjoe30 a31a473 - update minecraft-protocol dependency
05:01 < Not-001> [mcserve] superjoe30 3946a84 - Release 0.4.3
05:09 < Not-001> [mcserve] superjoe30 pushed 2 commits [+0/-0/±4] http://git.io/IKnR1Q
05:09 < Not-001> [mcserve] superjoe30 6bae9c4 - ability to disable proxy
05:09 < Not-001> [mcserve] superjoe30 48fa4c6 - Release 0.4.4
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05:39 < Not-001> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn 74e5ca2 - Update Craft.Net
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10:34 < ashka> has anyone ever tried to respond to 0x02 with 0xfd with a minecraft server ? I'm getting a lot of trouble with the RSA key, the client saying stuff like "java.security.InvalidKeyException: IOException: Detect premature EOF"
11:08 <+Fador> ashka: what language are you using?
11:09 < ashka> Fador, php. :°
11:09 < ashka> I guess my key is in the wrong format, I've just seen some stuff related to X509
11:09 <+Fador> https://github.com/fador/mineserver/blob/master/include/protocol.h#L56 <- 0xfd packet generator
11:10 <+Fador> https://github.com/fador/mineserver/blob/master/src/mineserver.cpp#L315 <- and this is how I get the key
11:10 < ashka> oh you made that, I was browsing your code atm
11:10 <+Fador> =)
11:10 < ashka> just seen that you made a RSA key then did x509 stuff
11:12 < ashka> btw Fador, what does your pubkey looks like at line 315 of your mineserver.cpp ? does it has BEGIN/END headers at this time ?
11:12 <+Fador> I don't think it has those
11:13 <+Fador> I used something like http://lapo.it/asn1js/ to decode the ASN.1 format key I got and figured I have to remove some bytes to get the format minecraft wants =D
11:14 < ashka> mmh, okay... just a silly question, I guess there is no way to not send a key with the vanilla client?
11:15 <+Fador> well...
11:16 < ashka> I tried sending right away others packets, but it looks like the vanilla client really waits for a valid 0xfd
11:16 <+Fador> just respond with a login request to the handshake (0x02)
11:17 <+Fador> but you can't do authentication and you have to send "-" as the server ID
11:22 < ashka> Fador, you mean like, I send 0xFD with - as server id, and everything NUL then ?
11:25 < ashka> mmh, the client still try to get a key
11:26 <+Fador> oh right..well you don't send 0xFD at all ;D
11:26 <+Fador> https://github.com/fador/mineserver/blob/master/src/packets.cpp#L609
11:30 < ashka> Fador, that changes the error message at least D:
11:30 < ashka> when I send the 0x01 the client says it got a string longer than expected (100>16)
11:30 < ashka> yet I don't even send 100 data bytes
11:30 < ashka> and the length of the level type is well defined
11:34 < ashka> (packet screenie http://puu.sh/2htLx/24c3be9b62 )
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11:35 <+Fador> your entity ID is only two bytes?
11:36 <+Fador> 00 b1 -> 00 00 00 b1
11:36 < ashka> mmh, let me fix that
11:36 < ashka> okat that's "better"
11:36 < ashka> got now 1792 > 16
11:37 < ashka> oh !
11:37 < ashka> works
11:37 < ashka> got the downloading terrain screen
11:37 <+Fador> yeah, endianness issue ;)
11:37 <+Fador> =)
11:37 < ashka> and sadly discovering there's no cancel button on that one 
11:38 < ashka> oh okay it times out eventually
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11:42 < ashka> client sending 0x0B before the terrain isn't even ready. Minecraft logic
11:44 < jast> double negation. IRC logic
11:45 < ashka> :c
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22:49 < inkoate> Is the ASN.1 formatted public key in DER encoding? Does anyone know?
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23:31 <+sadimusi> inkoate: yes
--- Day changed ven. mars 15 2013
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02:34 < TkTech> Windows To Go is actually surprisingly well done.
02:35 < TkTech> Very smooth transition, much better than the NIX equivalent. Don't have to much around with the partition tables to great a monster MBR/UEFI hybrid.
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03:35 < Not-001> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/_z00vg
03:35 < Not-001> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn 64763f6 - Added --authenticate-clients to set ProxySetings.AuthenticateClients automatically
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23:30 < dreadiscool> Hi :3
23:30 < dreadiscool> Is there an easy way to set up a "file system link" on a server?
23:30 < dreadiscool> I want to set up two servers that access the same plugin folder
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23:30 < mappum> dreadiscool: on a unix system?
23:31 < dreadiscool> yes
23:31 < dreadiscool> Because I have a plugin that uses System.getProperty("user.dir") to retrieve relative files, and it's not working well with the -P startup parameter
23:31 < mappum> ln -s /file/to/link/to /where/the/link/should/be
23:32 < mappum> the link looks to the program like a normal file or directory, but it reads from wherever it is linking to
23:32 < dreadiscool> kewl
23:32 < dreadiscool> thanks
23:32 < dreadiscool> :D
23:33 < mappum> if you ever need to sound pro, that is called a symbolic link
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23:33 < dreadiscool> :P thanks for your help (:
23:34 < mappum> np :)
23:35 < dreadiscool> Just to clarify, so I don't mess something up D:
23:35 < dreadiscool> if I had /home/A and I wanted to point /home/B to a
23:35 < dreadiscool> i would type
23:35 < dreadiscool> ln -s /home/A /home/B
23:35 < dreadiscool> right?
23:35 < mappum> yep
23:36 < dreadiscool> Thanks, it worked
23:36 < dreadiscool> :D
23:36 < mappum> :D
23:36 < mappum> symbolic links are super handy
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23:54 < dreadiscool> Thanks, it worked like a charm :D
23:54 < dreadiscool> How do I remove a file link thouhg, for future reference?
23:55 < [z]2> rm whatever
23:57 < dreadiscool> Won't that remove the original folder? D:
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00:00 < [z]2> no
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00:21 < Stormx2> hey Grum, would it be difficult to make the "blindness" potion effect affected by the stength multiplier?
00:21 < Stormx2> I think it's just on/off at the moment
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16:49 < Darker> Hello hello, is there anybody else out there?
16:50 < Darker> Hello hello, is there anybody else out there?
16:51 < Darker> Could anyone give me a hand with inital login sequence to mincraft server?
16:51 < Darker> I'm stuck at 0xFD packet
16:53 < Darker> Could anyone give me a hand with inital login sequence to mincraft server?
16:53 < Darker> I'm stuck at 0xFD packet
16:54 < buttscicles> is there an echo in here?
16:58 < Darker> what is echo?
16:58 < Darker> Or was that a joke about me, posting message 2 times?
17:06 < Darker> Could anyone give me a hand with inital login sequence to mincraft server?
17:06 < Darker> I'm stuck at 0xFD packet
17:12 < edk> stop bloody spamming
17:13 < edk> if you can spare the time, read http://mcdevs.org/irc/rules#general-rules
17:13 < Darker> Please take my apologies, but since there is no chat
17:13 < Darker> I doubt my spam (i agree it is spam anyway) may be bothering anybody
17:14 < Darker> I have read the rules
17:14 < edk> well, it's irritating to see activity somewhere and then it turns out it's just a question being asked for the nth time
17:14 < Darker> I have read your wiki too
17:15 <+Fador> Darker: so what's the problem with 0xfd packet?
17:15 < Darker> I don't know what data to expect, and it is very suspitious, that I get 1 as "server id" string length
17:16 <+Fador> the server ID can be "-", meaning it's not using authentication
17:17 < Darker> ah, yea, that is what I get
17:17 < Darker> But then I get negative number for the array of bytes - and I thikn that is where I am out of sync.
17:18 < Darker> I'll share some readable output, just must clean it first :)
17:19 < Darker> http://pastebin.com/aMFuMxeb
17:21 < Darker> After failing to read verification code arrays, I tried to use socket timeout, read till server sends data and then send 0xCD and 0 to get spawned
17:21 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 pushed 2 commits to master [+2/-0/±0] http://git.io/kGsTKw
17:21 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] mappum 169fa1c - Added benchmark script
17:21 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 d335243 - Merge pull request #46 from mappum/master Added benchmark script
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17:25 < Darker> So it seems that I need to understand the folowing data anyway, to have some chance to guess where I've lost the sync
17:25 <+Fador> you might want to print out the bytes you're receiving..
17:26 <+Fador> at least that's what I would do ;)
17:27 <+Fador> what datatype are you using with the array length?
17:28 < Darker> short, just like is advised in docs
17:28 <+Fador> ok
17:28 < Darker> I read two bytes, convert to C++ integer (aware of endianity problem) and I get -92
17:30 < Darker> Printing all the bytes is no problem, but unless I can search some pattern within them (a pack of zeros for example)
17:30 < Darker> I cannot guess what all the numbers means
17:30 < Darker> This is why I came to ask, what values should I expect.
17:31 <+Fador> well those should be positive numbers at least ;)
17:32 < Darker> i think so. Have you any clue on length of the "public key"? I think it should be less than 255, so the actual number will have 0 before it
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17:40 <+Fador> it seems I got 160 bytes when I generated 1024-bit key
17:48 < Darker> I get less data even with the other key
17:49 < Darker> I'll have to win my little battle with compilation errors before I find out more
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18:18 < Darker> So, after the string, I get: "Another 170 unknown bytes read."
18:18 < Darker> I get this data using 0.5 seccond socket timeout
18:19 < Darker> once Bukkit starts waiting for data, the timeout times out and I know I passed this socket
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19:25 < Darker> Does anyone have an idea, what is correct value of disconnect (0xFF) packet?
19:25 < Darker> Currently, I'm building parser of server packets
19:25 < Darker> and when I occur to receive packet with inknown ID I want to disconnect properly
19:28 <+Fador> I don't think the "reason" matters
19:28 <+Fador> but clients are using "Quitting" as the value it seems
19:34 <+SpaceManiac> TkTech: found a Jawa bug, not sure how you want it so http://pastie.org/6574433
19:44 < Darker> Throws End of stream error anyway. Do I have to accept some reply for 0xFF before I close the socket_
19:44 < Darker> ?
19:46 <+Fador> Darker: I think the server should close connection after receiving the packet
19:47 < Darker> Then it is not fast enough. I'll try to add sleep(500) to see what happens
19:47 < Darker> But anyway, it seems I'm out of sync again :(
19:48 < Darker> I'm getting packets that doesn't exist
19:50 < Darker> Yeah, sleep() fixed the issue, I now get disconnect.quitting instead of disconnect.endOfStream
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20:18 < Darker> Guys, can anyone think of a way to ignore 0x68 packet - inventory slot update?
20:18 < Darker> I don't want to parse it now, but I can't figure out how to compute its length
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20:22 < example6> Hey guys, I didn't know where else to ask. Is the 
20:22 < example6> fak
20:22 < example6> missing texture texture--the one for locked chest--programmatically assigned and therefore not able to be changed? I am unable to find it inside the .jar
20:23 < Darker> as far as I know, it can be reskined
20:23 < Darker> on my server it serves for protection area purposes and I think it had different skin
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20:24 < example6> Before 1.5 yes, it used part of the emerald texture and the purple blank thing for missing texture
20:24 < example6> but now it uses a white image that is more than 16x16 leading me to believe that it's just coded into the client and unchangeable
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21:43 < Darker> Hey, how is the slot number defined, when server updates inventory contents_
21:43 < Darker> ?
21:43 < TkTech> SpaceManiac: Thanks, can you toss that on the issue tracker?
21:43 <+SpaceManiac> Sure
21:43 < Darker> In docs, I read: "The structure consists of at least a short, which gives the item/block ID" - so where is the slot number?
21:43 < TkTech> SpaceManiac: I'm traveling today and tomorrow, won't be able to commit until Sunday night
21:44 < Darker> Or does the server need to send all slots to update one?
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23:19 < Not-001> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/D23ReQ
23:19 < Not-001> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn 20d37ca - Update Craft.Net
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01:58 < TkTech> SpaceManiac: I lied; what branch/version?
01:59 <+SpaceManiac> TkTech: master, freshly pip'd
02:06 < TkTech> SpaceManiac: Committed a slightly different fix. <3 for the issue.
02:06 < TkTech> SpaceManiac: Doing anything fun?
02:06 <+SpaceManiac> Just messing around right now
02:06 <+SpaceManiac> I'll let you know, though :P
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02:20 < TkTech> SpaceManiac: If I'm not around and you have something you want/find something broken/think it could be done differently, just go ticket nuts
02:20 <+SpaceManiac> Alright
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04:08 < TkTech> SpaceManiac: Looks like my patch request finally made it into pypy
04:08 < TkTech> SpaceManiac: So Jawa should run on it quite fine
04:09 < TkTech> (Two years after reporting it ;/)
04:15 <+SpaceManiac> heh
04:16 <+AndrewPH> woohoo \:D/
04:16 < TkTech> I don't know why it took two years, it broke so many things.
04:16 < TkTech> Anything depending on ZipFile was borked
04:16 < TkTech> https://bugs.pypy.org/issue912
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05:04 < dreadiscool> I think that login protocol has changed from 1.4 to 1.5 D:
05:05 < dreadiscool> I had a working bot that could login to servers in 1.4
05:05 < dreadiscool> After 1.5 came out, it is hanging on waiting for the 0xFD after sending the login request
05:05 < dreadiscool> I already updated the protocol version from 51 to 60
05:05 < dreadiscool> And according to the wiki, that's the only thing that's changed
05:06 < dreadiscool> Has the login request packet changed but not been updated?
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05:25 < dreadiscool> Ermygawd
05:25 < dreadiscool> :L
05:25 < dreadiscool> Did the 0x02 packet change?
05:25 < dreadiscool> I think that it's messed up somehow D:
05:26 < Scryptonite> Do you have any network data? Or is your application just throwing an error that something is wrong with 0x02?
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05:27 < dreadiscool> There is no error
05:28 < dreadiscool> My application worked with 1.4, and could log in successfuly
05:28 < dreadiscool> After sending the 0x02 packet, the server never sends the 0xfd encryption packet
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05:28 < Scryptonite> It just disconnects you?
05:28 < dreadiscool> Nope, it hangs
05:28 < dreadiscool> It leaves the connection open
05:29 < dreadiscool> For shiggles, I appended a 0x00 after sending the 0x02 packet
05:29 < dreadiscool> Nothing
05:29 < dreadiscool> Then, I appened 2 0x00 bytes
05:29 < dreadiscool> Still nothing
05:29 < dreadiscool> I also tried it with 4
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05:29 < dreadiscool> But still, nothing
05:29 < dreadiscool> The server appears to be waiting for something 
05:29 < Scryptonite> So send 00's until it does something, see how long it takes.
05:29 < dreadiscool> kk
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05:32 < dreadiscool> After it sends the 3rd 0x00 protocol error 0_o
05:34 < dreadiscool> Here's a snippet
05:34 < dreadiscool> http://pastie.org/6578334
05:34 < Scryptonite> Huh. Well your guess would be as good as mine.
05:34 < dreadiscool> I get the message "Expecting teh 0xfd"
05:34 < dreadiscool> But never "finished early" or any other message
05:34 < dreadiscool> that comes after
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06:31 < example6> Hey guys, is the 'missing texture' texture unavailable to be changed? I can't seem to find it. Is it programmatically made?
06:32 < SinZ> This channel is generally isn't for modding
06:32 < example6> I wasn't really sure where else to ask
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06:33 < SinZ> most likely programmically made though, as its when files cant be accessed
06:33 < example6> hmm, ok thanks
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07:56 < pbunny> wtf? client sends bizzare yaw values
07:57 < pbunny> i.e. at beginning it's 0 which is fine
07:57 < pbunny> then if i turn around multiple times it just keeps decreasing
07:57 < pbunny> up to values like -2518 etc
07:58 < pbunny> pitch is always from -90 to 90 degrees, but that's because i can't turn around by pitch
07:59 < pbunny> ah, its on the wiki - "Additionally, yaw is not clamped to between 0 and 360 degrees; any number is valid, including negative numbers and numbers greater than 360. "
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18:24 < Darker> Could you tell me, how arrows are shot? I mean, what should client send to server to shoot an arrow.
18:24 < Darker> I'm trying to make an "artilery bot"
18:29 < Darker> Is it done using Player Digging (0x0E) ?
18:30 < Darker> And if so, where do I put the charge information?
18:30 < Darker> And does it have a cooldown, or the cooldown is just client thing?
18:32 < Darker> Does anyone know how to parse byte representation of java Float and Double?
18:32 < Darker> I do not understand float type at all
18:35 <+Fador> arrows are shot using Spawn Object (0x17) packet
18:37 <+Fador> and you were using C++?
18:37 <+Fador> so you can just take the float/double bytearray, swap the bytes (depending on endianness of the system) and cast the array to float/double
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18:41 < Darker> Thank you, I'll try it :) 
18:43 < Darker> But I'm not sure how to cast char[8] to double. Maybe double*...
18:46 <+Fador> sure, just: double value = *((double*)(&char[0])); or something ;)
18:48 < Darker> 0x17 seems to be only server to client. Even if wiki was wrong - the 1 value is entity ID and it would be exploitable to let
18:48 < Darker> client set entity ID as he wants
18:50 <+Fador> on right, I'm thinking all server stuff ;D
18:51 <+Fador> I think you just select the item from your inventory and "right click"...
18:51 < Darker> So the charge would b calculated server side?
18:51 < Darker> So bad... :(
18:51 < Darker> I hoped to try machine gun, until I find out how to move my character
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18:58 < Darker> Damn, I should've cast all the types like you do, instead of writing classes for them
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19:03 < Darker> Do I have to check other than Player Position and Look (0x0D) to know my position?
19:15 < Darker> Please, does anyone have some good concept on how to implement the client in OOP?
19:15 < Darker> I mean - what classes should I do, if entities should parse their packets or if I should make some parser class
19:16 < Darker> how to transfer data between threads (receiver, sender and player)
19:36 < eddyb> Fador: &char[0] is char, isn't it...
19:36 < eddyb> maybe const could cause problems?
19:36 <+Fador> ..it's a pointer to the beginning of the char array
19:37 < eddyb> yes
19:37 < eddyb> the char array is a pointer by itself
19:37 <+Fador> I know ;)
19:37 <+Fador> so you can just replace "&char[0]" with "char"
19:37 <+Fador> but I was thinking it doesn't look right ;)
19:38 < eddyb> that's what I'm saying
19:39 < eddyb> Darker: I suggest looking at libmcnet. also, strict OOP is too bloated
19:41 < Darker> "bloated"? What does it mean?
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19:42 < eddyb> Darker: you're going to write loads of useless code
19:42 < eddyb> well, semi-useless
19:42 < eddyb> C++ is not as bad as Java for this, but it's still not perfect
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19:43 < Darker> With all respects, I cannot think of better language to make compiled programs...
19:43 < eddyb> "compiled"
19:43 < eddyb> you think too much of performance
19:43 < Darker> As a matter of fact, I do!
19:44 < eddyb> good luck figuring a way to not write tons of code
19:45 < Darker> I bet you'd use javascript :P
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19:45 < Darker> Or maybe, you are talking about Python?
19:45 < eddyb> JS, although I'm using ES6 at the moment via traceur-compiler
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19:45 < eddyb> Darker: https://github.com/deoxxa/libmcnet/blob/master/include/mcnet/packets.h
19:46 < eddyb> Darker: I came up with the idea - I actually had my packet definitions like that for minecraft before he wrote the library
19:47 < Darker> Is there an implementation of theese packets?
19:47 < eddyb> Darker: that list generates structures, parse code and generate code for every packet
19:47 < Darker> oh, well, seems I already wrote some useless code :D
19:47 < eddyb> Darker: yeah, libmcnet is fully functional
19:47 < eddyb> that's why I told you to look at it
19:47 < edk> eddyb, "good" C++ is as bad
19:48 < edk> non-good C++ isn't as bad because you can break the rules when required
19:49 < eddyb> Darker: this is enough to generate all the structs out of that list: https://github.com/deoxxa/libmcnet/blob/master/include/mcnet/structs.h
19:49 < eddyb> edk: good C++ is the the right balance between strict code and hacks
19:49 < eddyb> I would love more optional metaprogramming tools
19:50 < eddyb> in JS I can generate very specific code when I need it first, then use it every time
19:50 < Darker> I thought it was JS you had on mind
19:51 < eddyb> Darker: https://github.com/deoxxa/libmcnet/blob/master/src/parser.c and this is the parser code
19:52 < Darker> Its all very short...
19:52 < eddyb> yes
19:52 < eddyb> because of me :)
19:52 < Darker> I think there is some trick I don't get...
19:53 < Darker> Well, I see tons of compiler commands, but some things, like metadata or item slots are parsed dynamically...
19:53 < eddyb> they are preprocessor directives
19:53 < Darker> I know, I just used wrong name for them :) I'm new to C++
19:54 < eddyb> they are used to expand simple definitions to useful code in different instances
19:55 < Darker> wow, I can't even find out, how to use it. Now I see how much I will have to learn
19:56 < eddyb> Darker: https://github.com/deoxxa/libmcnet/ scroll down for README
19:56 < Darker> I did
19:56 < Darker> already reading it
19:58 < Darker> on_error is called in different thread?
19:58 < eddyb> Darker: forget threads
19:58 < eddyb> they are useless in this case
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19:59 < Darker> well, I thought that sending and receiving are asynchronous
19:59 < eddyb> Darker: PACKET(1F, INT(eid) BYTE(x) BYTE(y) BYTE(z)) // that becomes struct mcnet_packet_1F_s {uint8_t pid; int32_t eid; int8_t x; int8_t x; int8_t y; int8_t z;}; when PACKET, INT, BYTE, and other things are properly defined
19:59 < Darker> Hey, thank you. I'll donwnload it and try it. My code is horrible anyway, I need something better
19:59 < eddyb> Darker: it's just a parsing library
20:00 < eddyb> Darker: whenever you send data to it, you might get called from the parse function if a complete packet has been parsed
20:02 < Darker> Why do all libraries need that cmake? :(
20:02 < Darker> You know... Instead of just including them...
20:03 < eddyb> derp
20:03 < eddyb> you can just include them
20:04 < Darker> Please don't get upset. Don't tell me there wasn't day you didn't understand C++ :P
20:04 < Darker> Imagine explaining it to your mum :P
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20:08 < eddyb> I'm not upset, I'm just trying to point stuff up :)
20:10 < eddyb> s/up/out
20:10 < eddyb> I'm quite tired myself
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20:20 < Darker> That trick with casting char[8] to double does not work unfortunatelly
20:21 < Darker> I get some veird numbers, but without understanding double format, I can't tell if they are wrong, or treat them badly
20:21 < eddyb> Darker: a union is a bit safer
20:22 < eddyb> *an
20:22 < Darker> "union"? Sorry, again, I don't know what it is...
20:22 < eddyb> it's like a struct, but all elements start at the beginning
20:24 < eddyb> union bytes_or_double {char bytes[8]; double as_double;};
20:25 < eddyb> bytes_or_double *foo = reinterpret_cast<bytes_or_double*>(some_pointer_to_some_bytes); foo->bytes will have the original bytes and as_double will have the double value
20:25 < eddyb> I've described it messier than it is in actual code
20:25 < eddyb> Darker: can I see your code? maybe you're doing something wrong. only the part where you have chars and doubles is important
20:26 < Darker> I believe I'm doing lot of things wrong :)
20:26 < Darker> I'll paste it somewhere
20:26 < eddyb> https://gist.github.com
20:26 <+Fador> Darker: you did fix the endianness before casting to double?
20:26 < eddyb> oh lol
20:27 < Darker> yeah, I've made very funny function to do it
20:27 < eddyb> I forgot, in node.js you can just do .readDoubleBE for big-endian
20:27 < Darker> I eve checked it
20:27 < Darker> node.js is not javascript library?
20:27 < eddyb> node.js is the most imporant JS platform ever
20:27 < Scryptonite> It is a JavaScript environment.
20:28 < eddyb> the buffer module has a Buffer class that has read/write methods for both endiannesses
20:32 < Darker> Oh, I just recalled what it is
20:33 < Darker> its that library for the guys who love javascript too much :P
20:33 < Darker> Sometimes I thought of using it, because javascript is my primary language
20:33 < eddyb> it's not a library
20:33 < Darker> well yeah, whatever
20:33 < eddyb> you're probably thinking of jQuery or something
20:34 < Darker> Nope
20:34 < eddyb> primary as in 0th?
20:34 < Darker> 0th?
20:34 < Darker> Its the first I learned and the one I'm best with
20:34 < Scryptonite> Array's in JS start with 0.
20:35 < Darker> :D
20:35 < eddyb> they do in every sane language, that wasn't the joke
20:35 < Darker> sorry, didn't get it :)
20:35 < Darker> Well, yeah, even in some insane langs
20:35 < Darker> http://pastebin.com/kX8vS9qc
20:35 < Darker> sorry that it took so long
20:35 < eddyb> there's a templated swap function
20:36 < Darker> templated?
20:36 < eddyb> your loop does swap(arr[i], arr[i+1])
20:36 < eddyb> you're treating the input as big-endian chunks of 16 bits
20:36 < eddyb> very wrong
20:36 < eddyb> no wonder decoding fails
20:36 < Darker> Now, I don't understand, sorry
20:37 < Darker> damn, damn
20:37 < eddyb> in big endian a certain group of bytes is in the inverse order
20:37 < Darker> something is wrong, you're right
20:37 < Darker> But how do I access 8 bits?
20:37 < eddyb> derp
20:38 < eddyb> there's no way to change the entire packet to little endian
20:38 < eddyb> you have to do it for every thing you read
20:38 < Darker> I'm not doing that!
20:38 < Darker> I only swap what is to be swapped!
20:38 < eddyb> ok then
20:38 < Darker> I call my swap function for each (double)
20:38 <+Fador> you have to swap the last byte with the first and so on
20:38 < eddyb> for(int i = 0; i < length/2; i++) swap(arr[i], arr[length-i-1]);
20:39 < eddyb> Darker: ^^ that should be the swapping loop
20:39 < Darker> Well, that is what I did wrong. I swaped bytes next to each other
20:39 < Darker> I'm tired too
20:39 < Darker> forgot what endianity means :D
20:39 < Darker> by the way, where does double store the floating point position?
20:40 <+Fador> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-precision_floating-point_format
20:48 < Darker> Man...! It works :)
20:48 < Darker> thank you so much :)
20:48 < eddyb> np
20:49 < eddyb> btw, that function is highly inefficient
20:49 < Darker> why?
20:49 < eddyb> unless the compiler unrolls the loop and sees you're doing endianness conversion
20:50 < Darker> And that can be done faster?
20:50 < Darker> I only can think of telling the system to start reading from the other side. And that is impossible I guess
20:51 < Darker> I think I just found an error on the wiki
20:52 < Darker> They say: "When this packet is sent from the server, the 'Y' and 'Stance' fields are swapped. "
20:52 < Darker> Normal order is X,Y,Stance,Z
20:52 < Darker> Swaped would be X,Y,Z,Stance
20:53 < Darker> I have to skip 8 bytes after reading Y - so the normal order is the one the server uses
20:54 < eddyb> for 32bits (an int): (x >> 24) | (x >> 8) & 0xff00 | (x << 8) & 0xff0000 | (x << 24)
20:54 < eddyb> if I got that right, that expression will be converted to a single bswap instruction on x86
20:56 < eddyb> dammit the llvm demo is disabled
20:59 < Darker> But this is something you cannot expect me to understand :D 
20:59 < eddyb> Darker: gcc does this optimization on -O2
20:59 < Darker> Well, I'm on windows, and what worse, in VC++
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20:59 < eddyb> bswap   %eax; for: echo 'int main(int x) {return (x >> 24) | (x >> 8) & 0xff00 | (x << 8) & 0xff0000 | (x << 24);}' | gcc -x c -o test.s -S -O2 -
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20:59 < eddyb> Darker: that's suicidal
20:59 < Darker> because  failed to compile boost for MinGW
21:00 < eddyb> you don't really need boost for this. and there should be a compiled version already
21:00 < Darker> I need the program to be 100% windows/linux compatible
21:00 < eddyb> seriously, programming on windows is a sin
21:00 < eddyb> Darker: then work on linux and use mingw to crosscompile things for windows
21:01 < Darker> My laptop has windows and I use them more
21:01 < Darker> for linux programing, I used debian in virtual PC
21:01 < Darker> It means no problem, but I cannot copy-paste so easily then
21:02 < eddyb> Darker: heh, debian, do you get gcc version 4.7.2 20130108 there?
21:02 < Darker> :D
21:02 < eddyb> I know debian is behind with versions
21:03 < Darker> I don't even know the main number of the version
21:03 <+Fador> gcc (Debian 4.4.5-8) 4.4.5
21:03 < Darker> I used it to create server and that is half a year ago
21:03 <+Fador> current stable ;)
21:03 < eddyb> I think that gcc version is the release version (basically very old and more than stable) for the latest openSUSE release
21:03 < eddyb> Fador: wtf that's years old
21:03 < eddyb> at least two
21:03 < Darker> But I think you'd like the project I was doing back then
21:03 < eddyb> that's not stable, that's ancient
21:04 <+Fador> well..ofc that depends on the age of the viewer =b
21:05 < eddyb> I was using 4.7 more than an year ago
21:05 < eddyb> back then it was turning stable
21:06 < Darker> But its true that in linux, everything was way easier
21:06 < eddyb> Fador: GCC 4.4.5	October 1, 2010
21:06 < Darker> like sockets and threads (my favorite topic)
21:07 < eddyb> threads are evil
21:07 < eddyb> at least the traditional ones
21:07 < Darker> Omg, I feel so guilty, when I now opened the debian
21:07 < Darker> and saw the code I've left months ago
21:07 < Darker> abandoned :D
21:08 < Darker> Still here, waiting to be fixed
21:08 < eddyb> Darker: node.js is async and works on windows, linux, mac osx and on some ARM devices (as long as there's a port)
21:08 < Darker> I'm sure about that
21:09 < Darker> So evel that satan must feel ashamed
21:09 < Darker> *evil
21:09 < Darker> But I still have a pride :D
21:10 < eddyb> so stable is 4.7
21:10 < eddyb> latest gcc47 is 4.7.2_20130205
21:11 < Darker> Do I have to send my position when I'm still?
21:13 < eddyb> https://build.opensuse.org/package/show?project=devel%3Agcc&package=cross-aarch64-gcc48-icecream-backend that's confusing... I think someone wanted to make the ultimate gcc cross-compiler
21:14 < eddyb> and it's 4.8.0_20130308 (9 days ago) which is a decent up-to-date "unstable" version
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21:24 < eddyb> oh, this is nice, even better install progress in this latest zypper version
21:28 <+AndrewPH> I wonder if somebody's made a linux distro where it installed the unstable versions of old software.
21:28 <+AndrewPH> installs even
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22:53 < Darker> I still don't understand that "absolute integer"
22:53 < edk> <eddyb> Darker: node.js is async and works on windows, linux, mac osx and on some ARM devices (as long as there's a port)
22:53 < edk> anything works on any device, as long as there's a port
22:54 < Darker> ikr
22:55 < Darker> You are not first to recomend me node.js
22:56 < inkoate> What are the reasons that session.minecraft.com would send a client to my server a "Bad Login" response?
22:56 < Darker> Wrong password is one even I can figure out
22:57 < edk> That would be the login server
22:57 < inkoate> Yeah, this is encryption related, I'm thinking.
22:57 < edk> session returns bad login if you don't give it a proper (logged in) session id, iirc
22:57 < inkoate> the client I'm using is vanilla minecraft, the server I'm writing.
22:58 < inkoate> so its almost certainly something in the FD packet I'm sending.
22:58 < edk> oh right, misread
23:00 < Darker> Is there some legitimate way how to figure out protocol version?
23:00 < Darker> When I was trying to send login packet to server
23:01 < Darker> I had to bruteforce the protocol version by sending multiple requests (and iterating version field) until the server accepted
23:01 < edk> it's sent in the new-style server list ping
23:01 < edk> s/ping/pong/
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23:03 < Darker> You mean that one that is get before login?
23:04 < edk> well, it's in a separate exchange
23:04 < edk> but yes, before login
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23:10 < inkoate> oh
23:10 < inkoate> huh, I restarted the minecraft client and it worked... got an FC response!
23:45 < Darker> Guys, if I store mob entiti IDs in array (vector), do I have to check if I already have this entity ID for Mob spawn packets?
23:46 < Darker> Does the server send Mob spawn multiple times for one mob?
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00:32 < Darker> So I found it out - seems there are no multiply sent mob IDs
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00:48 <+Amaranth> Darker: I _think_ that'll actually "crash" the client
00:48 <+Amaranth> But it might just remove the old mob and put in the new one
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00:56 < Darker> I'm creating client, not server, but I still need to have only one of every ID in my array
00:56 < Darker> because its not complicated, I've implemented update of old member anyway
00:57 < Darker> Now I'm trying to auto attack close entities and its pain
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01:45 < Darker> Attach Entity (0x27)  seems to indicate players that are looking in their inventory
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01:49 < Not-001> [fNbt] fragmer pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-5/±3] http://git.io/0Bq-ug
01:49 < Not-001> [fNbt] fragmer 143c041 - Axed NbtSerializer subproject. It wasn't as effective or efficient as expected.
01:49 < Not-001> [fNbt] fragmer c89e064 - Updated the changelog with additions from 0.5.0
02:03 <+Amaranth> Darker: afaik the client does not actually tell the server it opened its own inventory
02:04 <+Amaranth> Darker: It just tells it about updates to said inventory
02:04 < Darker> Maybe, I just see that I received that packet whenever the other character had open inventory (so that i could escape the window with mouse)
02:05 < Darker> I will test it more of course
02:24 < Not-001> [fNbt] fragmer pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±3] http://git.io/CRLFoQ
02:24 < Not-001> [fNbt] fragmer 4fb91bc - Updated readme, changelog, and doxyfile.
02:37 < Not-001> [fNbt] fragmer pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/cz5WIg
02:37 < Not-001> [fNbt] fragmer 44e3f20 - Fixed URLs in readme
02:38 < Not-001> [fNbt] fragmer pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/OlFKgg
02:38 < Not-001> [fNbt] fragmer 2c85480 - Fixed URLs in readme... again...
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02:41 <+Scootabyte> fNbt 0.5.0 done! https://github.com/fragmer/fNbt#readme
02:42 <+Scootabyte> (fNBT is a small library, written in C# for .NET 2.0+. It provides functionality to create, load, traverse, modify, and save NBT files and streams)
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11:51 < pbunny> hi, is furnace smelting time the same for different materials?
11:51 < pbunny> if not, where can i see some list of furnace recipes with smelting time?
11:53 < pbunny> i don't have minecraft client (and time) to test them in single player
12:10 < SinZ> everything takes the same time
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13:54 < pbunny> http://wiki.vg/Protocol#Open_Window_.280x64.29
13:54 < pbunny> when did "Use provided window title " field appear?
13:54 < pbunny> iirc a couple of days ago it wasn't there
13:55 < pbunny> and it isn't needed for 1.4.7 client
13:55 <+Fador> they released 1.5
13:55 < pbunny> oh, ok
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14:54 < pbunny> Fador: any way to see 'diff' between 1.4.7 and 1.5 protocol?
14:55 < pbunny> does wiki supports that?
14:55 <+Fador> http://wiki.vg/wiki/index.php?title=Pre-release_protocol&oldid=3662
14:59 < pbunny> thx
15:11 < pbunny> "When a connection has been closed by either party the other party will respond with at least 100 bytes, each having the same value. " - what is the purpose of that? o.o
15:11 < pbunny> also, how is it possible to respond anything on closed connection? :p
15:12 <+Fador> I don't do that and it works just fine ;)
15:12 < pbunny> yep, my tests show the same
15:12 < TobiX> pbunny: Burger Vitrine can give you an overview: http://b.wiki.vg/ ...
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15:27 < inkoate> True or false: MC's hash function is annoying.
15:27 < inkoate> :)
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15:32 <+Fador> inkoate: http://wiki.vg/Protocol_Encryption#Client this?
15:33 < inkoate> yeah
15:33 < inkoate> they couldn't just have used sha1? ;)
15:33 < inkoate> or, I mean, regular sha1
15:34 <+Fador> well they just used the java functions available.. ;)
15:34 <+Fador> https://github.com/fador/mineserver/blob/master/src/user.cpp#L1410
15:34 <+Fador> it's not that hard to replicate
15:35 < inkoate> yeah, I'm trying, not succeeding yet.
15:35 < Stormx2> https://github.com/sadimusi/mc3p/blob/master/mc3p/authentication.py#L86
15:35 < Stormx2> That's sadimus-i's implementation
15:36 < Stormx2> fak I tried not to ping him but probably did anyway
15:38 < inkoate> huh, trying to parse that python, but I don't know what the "d >> 39 * 4 & 0x8" means.
15:40 <+Fador> he just checks the most-significant-bit for being "1" which means it's negative number and has to be handled
15:40 < inkoate> oh, ok
15:41 < inkoate> I just cast the first byte to int and see if its smaller than zero
15:41 < inkoate> saw that trick somewhere else.
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15:43 <+Fador> too bad there isn't datatypes that long in c/c++ =)
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16:06 < pbunny> hmm, wtf... sometimes 1.5 client sends slot -999 in click window packet when player right-clicks on empty slot while holding some stack
16:07 < pbunny> slot -999 is supposed to be sent when player clicks outside inventory window
16:07 < pbunny> is it a bug?
16:07 < pbunny> and it happens only on furnace inventory window o.O
16:08 <+Fador> https://github.com/fador/mineserver/blob/master/src/inventory.cpp#L470
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16:08 < pbunny> hmm, nope, it happens in player inventory too
16:08 <+Fador> that part of the code was last changed 2011-03-01 =)
16:08 < pbunny> Fador: well it worked fine with 1.4.7
16:09 < pbunny> hmm, it doesn't just send slot -999
16:10 < pbunny> sometimes on right-click-put of some stack (~ 1/4 of cases) it sends click window packet with -999 slot, and then with valid slot
16:10 < pbunny> like player clicked outside window before right-click-putting it
16:10 <+Fador> oh, ok..that explains some strange behaviour I noticed just few days ago =b
16:10 < pbunny> o.O
16:10 < pbunny> you have it too?
16:11 <+Fador> there's the new feature that you can "paint" the area you want to spread the stack
16:11 <+Fador> maybe something to do with that
16:12 <+Fador> have to test it out when I get home =)
16:15 < pbunny> Fador: in these bogus packets, shift is set to 5 o.O
16:15 < pbunny> so it's not boolean anymore
16:16 < pbunny> Fador: http://dpaste.org/0QK4M/raw/
16:17 < pbunny> thats what happened when he right-click-put stuff to different slots
16:17 < pbunny> at some moment -999 slot came with shift 5, then -999 slot packet was added before valid packet, with shift 5 too
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16:17 < pbunny> when he put items back (left-click) shift is 0 again, and at last he shift-clicked and shift was 1
16:18 < pbunny> hmm, -999 slot packet was added before and after every packet when shift was 5
16:19 < inkoate> I'm presuming that the session server returning "NOT YET" means that I have something wrong with my hash?
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16:20 <+sadimusi> you probably didn't send any hash
16:20 < inkoate> my packet trace says I am, but not the same one as the client is sending.
16:21 <+sadimusi> if you send a username and server id it usually says NO
16:23 < inkoate> I'm sending "GET /game/checkserver.jsp?user=inkoate&serverID=D0011AA1C6FA5850233662D072B86A66C1761318"
16:23 <+sadimusi> it should be serverId
16:23 < inkoate> ohh
16:23 < inkoate> damn case sensitive... :)
16:24 <+sadimusi> the error message is extremely helpful :D
16:24 < inkoate> alright, now I'm getting NO
16:24 < inkoate> :)
16:24 < inkoate> progress
16:24 < inkoate> hashes are still wrong, of course.
16:25 <+sadimusi> you have to make sure you're encoding the public key in exactly the same way as java would do it
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16:26 < inkoate> I'm using the same encoding that I'm sending to the client in 0xFD
16:27 <+sadimusi> the client only stores the decoded key and encodes it again for hashing
16:33 < inkoate> its something to do with how I do negative hashes.
16:33 < inkoate> "Notch" works, but "jeb_" doesn't
16:34 <+sadimusi> what language are you using?
16:35 < inkoate> golang
16:36 <+sadimusi> can't really help you there ;)
16:37 < inkoate> its fairly C-ish but yeah, I know its obscure. :)
16:37 < ShaRose> Funfact, it doesn't matter how long serverID is
16:37 < inkoate> its ok, though, part of the point of this is just to learn golang better.
16:37 < inkoate> digging into byte manipulation is defintely part of that.
16:37 <+sadimusi> checking the most significant byte and calculating the two's-complement should be fairly easy though
16:37 <+pdelvo> it would be pretty cool if minecraft would use aes-ni
16:38 <+sadimusi> it would be pretty cool it would use TLS
16:38 <+sadimusi> right now nobody knows if the encryption is actually secure
16:41 <+pdelvo> just o make it perform better. I can recognize 5x better performance when using aes-ni instead of regular aes
16:44 < inkoate> woohoo, got a YES
16:45 <+pdelvo> congratulations!
16:45 < inkoate> heh, thanks.
16:48 < ShaRose> sadimusi it's secure
16:48 <+sadimusi> I hope so
16:48 < ShaRose> mojang didn't just randomly pick it
16:48 <+sadimusi> :D
16:48 <+pdelvo> :D :D
16:48 <+sadimusi> the had to change it twice because I wrote a simple mitm attack script ;)
16:48 < ShaRose> it was picked from a few choices, and looked over for a good while before it was implemented
16:48 <+sadimusi> *they
16:49 < ShaRose> yeah, that's because when they first implemented it they want "eeh, it doesn't need to be THAT strong"
16:49 < ShaRose> and didn't follow spec
16:49 < edk> the encryption is very shakey
16:49 <+pdelvo> now they just need to use aes-ni and it will be fast too
16:50 < edk> I and a couple of other people came up with a few methods that really don't work by sheer luck
16:50 <+sadimusi> it's pretty good now, but nobody is really sure what the consequences of using the secret as the IV are
16:50 < edk> key == IV is never a good idea
16:50 < ShaRose> no, it's not
16:50 <+sadimusi> (besides reducing the aes rounds of the first round to 9 of course)
16:50 < ShaRose> again, they half-assed it
16:50 < edk> it's a recognized weakness of AES, yeah
16:50 < edk> (not that it's a good idea with any other cipher either)
16:50 < ShaRose> hell, at first we wanted a mac for each packet
16:50 < ShaRose> to prevent bit twiddling
16:51 < ShaRose> but we sort of gave in because that'd be a lot of overhead
16:51 < edk> AES with a reasonably sane block cipher mode is fairly secure, unless you do stupid things that might leak the key
16:51 < edk> not sure that a mac would help any?
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16:52 < ShaRose> I wanted them to use HC-256 :(
16:52 < ShaRose> edk no, just to prevent bit twiddling
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16:52 < ShaRose> it wasn't a very likely attack, since it would result in PROBABLY getting kicked
16:52 < ShaRose> for malformed packets
16:52 < ShaRose> but like I said we gave in on that
16:53 < ShaRose> hell, my request was the biggest change, making it so the client *and* server both have keypairs
16:53 < ShaRose> and login was changed to a signed keypair
16:53 <+sadimusi> HC-256 had exactly the same problems as RC4 did
16:53 < ShaRose> oh, didn't know any came up with it
16:53 < ShaRose> wasn't it the one that passed eStream
16:53 < edk> they should do it properly, signed server and client keys
16:54 < ShaRose> the reason mine wasn't picked was because it scared mollstam
16:54 < ShaRose> admittedly, it'd be a MASSIVE change
16:54 < ShaRose> all launchers would need to be updated and shit
16:55 < edk> I wonder if the current scheme isn't vulnerable to birthday attack on the sha1
16:55 < edk> can't be bothered to find out
16:55 < ShaRose> (we wanted to use SHA-256)
16:55 < edk> that would have solved that problem
16:58 < edk> well, honestly just using TLS would have worked
17:03 < jast> birthday attack on SHA1?
17:04 < jast> highly unlikely
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17:11 < edk> jast, but not impossible, and probably not even difficult for very long
17:12 < edk> just because it's safe for now doesn't mean better things shouldn't be used where possible
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17:12 < ShaRose> to be fair, considering how often TLS has been screwed over it might have been stronger to use the things we suggested to mojang :V
17:13 < jast> I did estimations of the likelihood of a birthday attack succeeding, for something like 2^64 collision attempts
17:13 < jast> it's still extremely slim
17:13 < edk> well, sha1 birthday complexity would be 2^80 with no cryptographic help
17:14 < jast> "birthday complexity"?
17:14 < edk> average complexity of a birthday attack
17:14 < edk> well, iirc it's half the width, i forget
17:15 < jast> what does that even mean
17:15 < jast> with a birthday attack, you have three or four variables
17:15 < jast> and you pick a trade-off
17:15 < jast> birthday attacks have nothing to do with complexity
17:16  * edk can't be bothered to argue
17:16 < jast> (except as a factor to slow down attacks :))
17:16 < jast> well, I just have no idea what you're talking about
17:16 < jast> I can live with that
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17:17 < edk> I can't remember where I read that it's half, but I assume it means: the average number of calculations required to succeed, assuming you can randomize both sides randomly
17:19 < jast> you mean, if you want to have a 50% chance of success?
17:19 < jast> i.e. for SHA1 you need to generate 1208925819614629174706176 signatures to have a 50% chance to create a collision
17:20 < edk> yeah, that'll be it
17:20 < jast> reduce that by just an order of magnitude and the chance is down to 1%
17:20 < edk> once you've got 50%, you're nearly there
17:21 < edk> well, if you can do 50% fairly quickly
17:21 < jast> i.e. with (very roughly) 2^76 = 75557863725914323419136 signatures the chance to succeed is just 1%
17:21 < jast> s/signatures/hashes/
17:21 < jast> i.e. in 1% of cases, that many randomly picked SHA1 signatures contain one signature
17:21 < jast> if you want to do a directed attack, your odds are astronomically worse
17:22 < jast> gah, that i.e. needs some reworking
17:22 < jast> i.e. in 1% of cases, that many randomly picked messages yield a duplicate hash
17:22 < edk> i knew what you meant :)
17:23 < jast> :)
17:23 < edk> well, yeah, it's difficult now, though i think some collisions have been found
17:23 < edk> but give moore's law a few more years
17:23 < jast> and good luck generating and hashing 2^76 messages in a specific target domain
17:23 < jast> even if you manage that, the chance that you have actually gained something is still pretty low
17:23 < jast> in fact, good luck even memorizing that many hashes
17:24 < edk> minecraft makes one part of that easy, since I think both things being hashed have a random number in them
17:25 < jast> what's the attack vector we're talking about here? being able to sign on as the victim on another server?
17:25 < edk> just being able to MITM
17:25 < edk> I don't think it's very likely, honestly
17:25 < edk> just too many parts of it are "shaky" for me to be comfortable
17:26 < jast> well, if we assume that an attacker can only intercept client<->server traffic (unlikely), that's a relevant question
17:26 < jast> IMO it's much more likely that the attacker can intercept client<->login server traffic, too
17:26 < jast> in that case the whole thing is worthless anyway
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17:26 < jast> (iirc)
17:26 < edk> well, the former only requires social engineering
17:27 < jast> social engineering installs an arbitrary "enhancement" on the client
17:27 < edk> just get them to connect to your evil server
17:27 < jast> honestly, I wouldn't even bother with the whole crypt stuff. just get someone to install a new and improved client.
17:27 < jast> anything else is way too much work compared to the possible benefits
17:28 < edk> meh, true
17:28 < jast> the only reason to throw out an encryption scheme is if it the effort to break is significantly cheaper than the benefits
17:28 < jast> (of breaking it)
17:30 < Not-001> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to gh-pages [+2/-2/±0] http://git.io/Z8hVUg
17:30 < Not-001> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn 9a26301 - Fixed typo in download
17:31 < ShaRose> interestingly jast that was main reason it was weakened
17:31 < ShaRose> because they thought nobody'd put in the effort to break it
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17:50 < TobiX> Why not just use plain old TLS?
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18:12 < pbunny> http://wiki.vg/wiki/index.php?title=Protocol&diff=prev&oldid=3694
18:12 < pbunny> please check and accept into wiki if it's ok
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18:15 < eddyb> jast: I think what edk was going on about half the bit length is general attack complexity. I remember reading on wikipedia, that because of that birthday thing, you need twice the size of your hash to have the same resistance against collision attacks that you have against preimage attacks
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18:52 < jast> eddyb: and I think I explained what 'attack complexity' actually means :}
18:53 < jast> the term is actually pretty meaningless
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20:15 < inkoate> can anyone point me to example code on setting up AES? Particularly curious about what was used for IV.
20:15 <+sadimusi> iv == shared secret ;)
20:15 < inkoate> always?
20:15 < inkoate> that's easy
20:16 < inkoate> :)
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20:45 < inkoate> blarg.... I think I'm properly decrypting... I get a packet back from my FC and the first byte always decrypts to CD
20:46 < inkoate> but the second one is always random
20:46 <+sadimusi> are you reinitializing your stream cipher=
20:46 <+sadimusi> *?
20:47 <+sadimusi> (you shouldn't)
20:48 <+sadimusi> you are using 8 bit CFB, right?
20:48 < inkoate> no, I just initialize once
20:49 < inkoate> and I'm using CFB
20:49 < inkoate> as for how big, I just use the key the client is sending...
20:50 <+sadimusi> if you can decrypt a single byte you are probably using CFB8
20:50 <+sadimusi> that's probably not the issue right now, but you have to use two ciphers, one for each direction
20:52 < inkoate> ok, yeah, I set up two stream ciphers, one in and one out
20:53 < inkoate> I have to figure out whether I'm using CFB8
20:53 <+sadimusi> of you weren't you wouldn't be able to decrypt a single byte
20:55 < inkoate> what version of CFB should I be using?
20:55 <+sadimusi> what versions are available?
20:56 < inkoate> still trying to figure that out. :)
20:56 <+sadimusi> I don't know of any CFB versions, the only thing you can choose is the block size
20:57 < inkoate> the block size would come from the size of the key that the client sends the server, right?
20:57 <+sadimusi> no
20:58 <+sadimusi> there are two block sizes here
20:58 <+sadimusi> one for AES and one for CFB
20:58 < inkoate> oh, ok
20:58 <+sadimusi> AES should be 128, but you probably have that right if you can decrypt the first byte
20:58 < inkoate> right
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21:02 < inkoate> This is what I'm working with, the CFBEncrypter and CFBDecrypter functions: http://golang.org/pkg/crypto/cipher/
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21:02 < inkoate> They say they decrypt/encrypt with cipher feedback mode, using an AES block.
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21:06 <+sadimusi> how exactly do you use this CFBDecryptor instance?
21:07 < inkoate> it has a function on it called XORKeyStream which you pass bytestreams to
21:09 <+sadimusi> that looks like CFB128 to me :/
21:09 <+sadimusi> maybe you just have to implement cfb yourself
21:09 < inkoate> damn them
21:09 < inkoate> yeah, might.
21:09 <+sadimusi> it's pretty straight-forward
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21:16 < inkoate> Hmm, ok... did you look at the code of XORKeyStream, sadimusi?
21:16 <+sadimusi> yes
21:16 < inkoate> so, am I right in thinking that because it counts x.outUsed up to length of x.out, its using the 128 bits of AES?
21:16 < inkoate> Instead of 8?
21:16 <+sadimusi> yes
21:16 < inkoate> that is, of the 128 bit block size.
21:16 < inkoate> ok
21:17 <+sadimusi> but you can't just change the block size there to 8
21:18 < inkoate> aw
21:18 < inkoate> :)
21:18 < inkoate> hehe
21:19 < inkoate> no, I'm doing some reading about cfb8, trying to figure out how it works.
21:19 <+sadimusi> after reading this you should know everything about it http://csrc.nist.gov/publications/nistpubs/800-38a/sp800-38a.pdf
21:20 <+sadimusi> note that wikipedia oversimplifies things in this case
21:20 < inkoate> in what case does it not? :)
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21:20 <+sadimusi> good point :)
21:25 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/rVCR1g
21:25 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] mappum 367b8a9 - Switched from constructors to functions in serialization code
21:25 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 7213da3 - Merge pull request #47 from mappum/master Switched from constructors to functions in serialization code
21:27 < mappum> superjoe: i think i would eventually want to replace the reading/writing stuff use native code if it speeds it up enough
21:28 < superjoe> mappum, how much of a speed multiplication improvement do you think would make using native code worth it?
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21:29 < mappum> hmm, well we could make it fall back to the pure js code if neccessary so it isn't a pain to install on windows
21:30 < mappum> and as long as it is like a 30% speed boost it would be worth it (but i'm sure it would be)
21:34 < superjoe> I guess I just don't want to be responsible for maintaining C++ code every time the protocol updates
21:34 < superjoe> but I'm not against you doing it
21:35 < mappum> well it wouldn't be too bad, it would just be a bunch of structs really
21:36 < mappum> i;m not going to do that yet though, because it will take forever :/
21:36 < mappum> but for my purposes less cpu = less instances = less cost
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21:41 < superjoe> gotcha
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21:41 < superjoe> mappum, have you actually exceeded 1 server yet?
21:41 < superjoe> s/server/instance/
21:42 < mappum> well we don't have users yet, but the architecture is there to support multiple servers
21:43 < inkoate> saidmusi: Thanks for the pdf link. I'm going to have to go read it like 482 times then try to implement it. :)
21:53 < superjoe> mappum, maybe try to get a couple users before worrying about scaling\
21:54 < mappum> getting users won't be a problem. we're going for a public technical preview on friday on Hacker News
21:55 < mappum> but right now the server is basically just minecraft classic, we have a lot to add before it's something people will actually play on
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00:49 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/DgYkqA
00:49 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] mappum 2c00c9f - Fixed bug where the wrong type was used when serializing entityMetadata
00:49 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 11b11f0 - Merge pull request #48 from mappum/master Fixed bug where the wrong type was used when serializing entityMetadata
00:52 < TkTech> God I love Sins Of A Solar Empire.
00:52 < TkTech> Excellent game.
00:53 < TkTech> inkoate: Just in case you don't know, you can start typing someone's name and hit "tab" to autocomplete it.
00:53 < TkTech> (I noticed you misspelled sadimusi's name)
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02:04 < inkoate> TkTech: Yeah, I knew that. For some reason I decided to type his out. Only noticed later that I'd mispelled it.
02:04 < inkoate> Thank you though. :)
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02:32 < inkoate> You know, thinking more about what sadimusi was saying earlier...
02:33 < inkoate> If it was a problem between CFB8 and CFB128, that wouldn't show up until the 9th byte
02:33 < inkoate> and I can't even decrypt the second byte...
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02:36 <+sadimusi> inkoate: If it were just cfb128 you couldn't decrypt a single byte at all
02:37 <+sadimusi> The code looks a bit like it's based on wikipedia's illustration
02:40 < inkoate> haha
02:40 < inkoate> which is a bit disturbing, considering.
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08:54 <+Ac-town>  /b 22
08:54 <+Ac-town> argh
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15:41 < pbunny> can i assume that items/blocks in inventory with same type but different 'damage' field will never stack with each other?
15:41 < pbunny> can i just treat them as different types of items/blocks?
15:42 < jast> in the past, at some points it was possible for certain damageable items to stack
15:42 < jast> the stack would then get one of the individual damage values assigned to it
15:42 < jast> it could conceivably happen again if they accidentally make an item both damageable and stackable
15:45 < dav1d> what about wool?
15:45 < dav1d> oh
15:45 < dav1d> nvm
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16:38 < pbunny> when player shift-clicks on item in inventory when opened furnace window, some items go to furnace upper slot, and some to lower slot
16:38 < pbunny> how do i determine that?
16:39 < pbunny> except for trying every item manually
16:41 < pbunny> i assume only fuel materials are moved into lower slot?
16:41 < pbunny> however, workbench is moved there too
16:42 < pbunny> is it possible to fuel furnace with workbench? -.-
16:42 < pbunny> oh, right. thx
16:42 <+Fador> http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Furnace#Fuel_efficiency
16:42 < pbunny> yeah, already found that :p
16:42 <+Fador> ;)
16:47 < pbunny> is bow fuel?
16:48 < pbunny> hmm, nope. it doesn't go to any furnace slot
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17:32 < pbunny> DEBUG(16:6)|parsebuffer()@parser.c:779: player mehiko123 digged out block (type 255) at [768,3114,-103]
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17:32 < pbunny> hmm, some weird player was digging on negative Y position
17:32 < pbunny> cheats/hacks ?
17:37 < jast> bug?
17:38 <+pdelvo> negative y? this cannot be
17:38 <+pdelvo> y is unsigned
17:39 <+pdelvo> it was above 127 ;)
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17:41 < pbunny> hmm, probably
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20:02 < inkoate> Know what's annoying? The way my server hash matches the vanilla client's 2/3 of the time.
20:02 < inkoate> And I can't figure out what's wrong in the other 1/3 of cases.
20:02 < inkoate> :)
20:09 < eddyb> interpreting the hash as a number, I think
20:13 < inkoate> as opposed to a string?
20:13 < inkoate> I'm interpreting it as a string conversion of a byte array
20:14 < inkoate> I get the right result on the three tests from the wiki.
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20:26 < inkoate> I'm thinking it must be something that comes up randomly in my host id occasionally.
20:27 < inkoate> How do people generate their random host ids usually?
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21:10 < eddyb> huh
21:11 < eddyb> I might be clueless
21:12 < eddyb> but I remember something about minecraft interpreting the hash as a signed number instead of an unsigned number or a byte array
21:13 < eddyb> inkoate: number vs byte arrays makes leading 0s disappear, while signed numbers have the sign
21:15 < eddyb> inkoate: those are the only two reasons I would see for your code to work only 60% of the time
21:22 < inkoate> Yeah, eddyb, not sure either. its a byte array, so I'm not losing leading zeroes.
21:27 < eddyb> inkoate: what exactly are you doing?
21:27 < eddyb> inkoate: are you just converting the entire byte array to hex?
21:27 < inkoate> concatenating the server id, the shared secret, and the asn.1 encoding of the public key
21:28 < inkoate> running that through sha1, doing the two's complement if its negative, stripping leading zeroes, then prepending a '-' if it was negative.
21:28 < eddyb> inkoate: can I see code?
21:30 < inkoate> https://gist.github.com/rschulman/5199790
21:31 < eddyb> 0x08
21:31 < eddyb> fail
21:31 < eddyb> so much fail
21:32 < eddyb> that condition should be if hashed[0] & 0x80 { ...
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21:32 < Kyle> mmm Golang
21:32 < eddyb> also kinda silly
21:32 < eddyb> and mixed tabs
21:33 < eddyb> ^ is the Golang equivalent for ~?
21:33 < eddyb> that can be confusing
21:34 < inkoate> yeah
21:34 < inkoate> that is what the conditional says, eedyb
21:34 < inkoate> oh wait
21:35 < eddyb> inkoate: can you read?
21:35 < inkoate> you're saying without the ==0
21:35 < eddyb> inkoate: and 0x80
21:35 < inkoate> golang won't let you do it without
21:35 < inkoate> oh, HAH
21:35 < inkoate> jesus typo
21:35 < eddyb> inkoate: are you dyslexic, tired, or just ... yeah :))?
21:35 < inkoate> just not reading closely...
21:35 < inkoate> lordy
21:35 < eddyb> it's probably the code memory
21:36 < eddyb> it's easier for anyone else to spot a typo
21:39 < inkoate> yeah, always is
21:40 < Flemmard> the worse is when you fix the bug but compile another source .. and spend 1h trying to figure out what's wrong ..
21:42 < eddyb> or you forget you need to do one extra step before you can run the test again
21:43 < eddyb> and it still has the problem and you go back to your code
21:43 < inkoate> nice, this appears to be working now
21:43 < inkoate> Thanks, eddyb
21:44 < eddyb> inkoate: np
21:45 < inkoate> Kyle: Don't know if you were being sarcastic before, but I'm actually quite enjoying golang
21:46 < inkoate> doing this server is kinda just a way to test it out a bit.
21:46 < Kyle> inkoate: I wasn't sarcastic
21:46 < inkoate> hard to tell with text sometimes. :)
21:47 < eddyb> I admire google's attempts
21:47 < eddyb> but Golang and Dart kinda went into a wall
21:48 < inkoate> Yeah, I'm not sure dart has much of a future
21:48 < inkoate> I'm not sure about golang, though.
21:48 < inkoate> I think it has potential.
21:48 < eddyb> all the potential has been used
21:49 < eddyb> and I never liked the half-assed syntax anyway
21:49 < eddyb> my bets are on ES6 (maybe ES7, but that might take a while)
21:49 < inkoate> I find it much easier to read than, say, C++ or C#
21:50 < inkoate> yeah, I don't think there's anything that can shake ECMAScript off its pedestal
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--- Day changed mer. mars 20 2013
00:13 < rom1504_> superjoe: should minecraft-protocol work with node 0.10.0 ? (on my computer it gets stuck in npm install then it says "Cannot find module '../bin/ursaNative'" if i try to use it anyway)
00:13 < superjoe> I haven't tested it yet
00:13 < superjoe> been busy... I just moved in with my girlfriend
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01:11 < Darker> Any idea how to dodge arrows in client? I mean, how to calculate whether the arrow is flying
01:11 < Darker> towards the player
01:11 < Darker> I failed to even get correct velocity and coordinates
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21:04 < dridri> hi pple o/
21:05 < dridri> I need help with my homemade client
21:06 < dridri> *foreveralone*
21:07 <+Prf_Jakob> 2 minutes are like millieseconds in IRC times
21:07 < dridri> ^^
21:07 < dav1d> hi
21:07 <+Prf_Jakob> don't ask to ask, just ask the question
21:07 < dav1d> would help if you could explain your problem
21:07 < dridri> ok, so
21:08 < dridri> i can connect to a server, it sends me its spawn point, my position, chunk data around me, mobs and all..
21:08 < dridri> but when I send a packet to update my position, it seems that it doesn't reveice it
21:08 < dridri> *receive
21:09 < dridri> cause it doesn't transfer chunk data around the new position
21:09 < dav1d> you could use a proxy to verfiy that it gets sent
21:09 < dridri> its a local server
21:09 < dav1d> and?
21:09 < dav1d> makes no difference
21:09 < dav1d> you can still use a proxy
21:10 < dridri> lol, actually its weird since it can receive chat messages packets
21:10 < dridri> and every other packets btw
21:11 < dridri> but how do I use a proxy since the data is encrypted?
21:12 < dav1d> well, if every other packet arrives...
21:12 < dav1d> dridri: like mc3p
21:12 < dav1d> you give the proxy your credentials or you set the server in offline mode
21:13 < dridri> hum offline mode doesn't disable encryption
21:13 < dav1d> oh nvm
21:14 < dav1d> yeah just connect to the proxy instead connecting to the server
21:14 < dridri> ok ill try
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21:15 < dav1d> but it's still strange that other packets arrive
21:15 < dav1d> maybe it's malformed
21:15 < dav1d> but this should disconnect you
21:16 < dav1d> proxy can verify that you send the packet correctly though
21:16 < dridri> I was thinking that it's just because I forgot initialization packets?
21:17 < dridri> I maybe do something wrong after the handshake
21:17 < dav1d> then use mc3p's login verfication thingy
21:18 < dridri> ok
21:18 < dridri> hmm, do you know the command line to run it ?
21:22 < dav1d> can't remeber 
21:22 < dav1d> but it should be in the readme
21:22 < dav1d> mc3p fork from sadimusi 
21:22 < dridri> if I send the PlayerPosition packets 20 times per second I got a "disconnect.genericReason"
21:22 < dridri> ok thanks
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21:36 < dridri> uhhh
21:36 < dridri> this proxy is too old
21:36 < dridri> it uses 1.3 version
22:10 < Thinkofdeath> dridri: https://github.com/SirCmpwn/SMProxy
22:37 < dridri> thx x)
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22:54 < Darker> Of YAW and PITCH, which one determines the rotation around Y axis? The rotation of body?
22:55 < inkoate> That should be yaw, Darker.
22:56 < Darker> Thank you :) So changing Pitch apropriatelly would make character look like he is nodding?
22:56 < inkoate> Yep, I think so.
22:57 < Darker> Thank you very much
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--- Day changed jeu. mars 21 2013
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00:37 < Darker> May I suggest Destroy Entity (0x1D) -> entity count be changed from "byte" to "unsigned byte"?
00:37 < Darker> talking about wiki of course
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03:41 < umby24> does anyone have example code for parsing map chunks in C# that i could use? I'm having trouble parsing them still.
03:42 < dexter0> umby24: https://github.com/SirCmpwn/Craft.Net would be a good place to look.
03:43 < umby24> it has server-side code, i havn't managed to find client side stuff yet though.. I'll skim through it again though
03:43 < umby24> (for map parsing specifically, anyway)
03:55 < umby24> yeah, he doesn't have it parsed. it just reads it and throws the info away
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09:41 <+md_5> Grum you should soo totally refactor Packet.read/write(DataInputStream/DataOutputStream) -> Packet.read/write(DataInput/DataOutput); I know it can be done easily and I would love you soo much for it :D
09:42 < Grum> isn't it lovely when people use concrete classes rather than interfaces?
09:43 <+md_5> mmmm
09:43  * md_5 sobs in a corner
09:43 < Grum> hmz also not so easily done
09:43 < Grum> hmmm nah should not be super hard
09:43 <+md_5> I cannot recall any place where anything implementation specific is required
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09:44 <+md_5> on netbeans you just right click; refactor; change method parameters;
09:44 <+md_5> then you are done with it :D
09:45 < Grum> nope you are not
09:45 <+md_5> If I had a copy of mcp ready to go I would test that theory
09:45  * md_5 downloads a copy to test that theory
09:46 < Grum> i am doing it right now
09:46 < Grum> needs a bit more changing
09:46 <+md_5> out of interest; what needs changing? I cant recall anything off the top of my head
09:46 < SinZ> what is the purpose of the change?
09:47 <+md_5> to illustrate I can ask gru_m nicely to clean up the minecraft code?
09:48 < Grum> euh lots of chained method calls
09:49 < Grum> also some places use stream.read instead of stream.readByte()
09:49 <+md_5> Grum well in my defense the obfuscator appears to get rid of the chained calls
09:50 < Grum> yeah i think most get inlined
09:50 < Grum> why is this so useful btw?
09:50 < Grum> i havent seen/used DataInput and DataOutput often
09:52 <+md_5> for replacing the network implementation
09:52 <+md_5> with say; non blocking io
09:54 < Grum> semi-pointless
09:54 < Grum> i mean you'll have bigger problems than this ;)
09:55 <+md_5> nah
09:55 <+md_5> I just do new DataInputStream(new ByteBufInputSTream(buf))
09:55 <+md_5> but if I can cut one call; and allow more flexibility for other applications; and clean up your code
09:55 <+md_5> why not?
09:55 < Grum> hehe i just noticed that 'PlayerActionPacket' doesnt support y > 127 :p
09:55 < Grum>         y = dis.readByte();
09:56 < Grum> no unsigned byte ftw!
09:56 <+md_5> and help you find bugs!
09:56 <+md_5> well at least we have unsigned shorts
09:56 <+md_5> amiright
09:56 < Grum> hmmm same for TileUpdate
09:56 < Grum> yeah hehe char ftw :P
09:57  * md_5 refactors locally as well
09:57 < Grum> holy crap
09:57 <+md_5> gogogo netbeans
09:57 < Grum> lots of stuff that seems broken
10:00 <+md_5> only 12 broken packets
10:00 <+md_5>  this.onGround = var1.read() != 0;
10:00 < SinZ> no biggy, only been broken for a year
10:00 <+md_5> is that really there; or is it inlined
10:02 <+md_5> done; that didnt take long
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10:58 < pbunny> hi
10:59 < pbunny> i have some weird behavior
10:59 < pbunny> i am implementing dropping of items when chest/furnace/workbench is destroyed
11:00 < pbunny> i sent "set block" packet that sets it to air, then i spawn entities for dropped items and sent "spawn object/vehicle" packets for them, then "entity velocity" packets
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11:01 < pbunny> however, once the block is destroyed, items fly to adjactent block first, and only from there velocity etc is applied
11:01 < pbunny> behavior is the same as if i haven't destroyed block and spawned them inside it
11:01 < pbunny> how so? i sent 'set block' with type 0 before spawning them..
11:02 < pbunny> is it possible that mc client processes packets in arbitrary order?
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11:03 < pbunny> i.e. receives 10 packets, then shuffles them, then processes
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11:07 < pbunny> nm, i added 0.5 to z,x,y of spawned entities and it solved
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13:40 < Grum> pbunny: they get stuck in the block otherwise and get shoved out
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14:00 < SupaYoshi> Hello
14:01 < SupaYoshi> Anyone here who can help me out with mark2?
14:01 < SupaYoshi> #semicolon separated paths to include or exclude, depending on mode
14:01 < SupaYoshi> plugin.backup.spec=worlds*
14:01 < SupaYoshi> http://pastebin.com/7nykP2k2 would this work?
14:01 < SupaYoshi> My world are claled UnitedFactions
14:02 < SupaYoshi> UnitedFactions_nether
14:02 < SupaYoshi> UnitedFactions_the_end and ShopWorld
14:20 < pbunny> http://wiki.vg/Protocol#Update_Window_Property_.280x69.29
14:20 < pbunny> "0-300 for fuel indicator "
14:20 < pbunny> i noticed that 'fuel' indicator actually shows values 0-150
14:20 < pbunny> above ones are like hidden (shown as full indicator)
14:21 < pbunny> is this 0-300 correct (show it as full until half of fuel is depleted)?
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14:34 < pbunny> 0-200 is correct in 1.5 , i updated wiki
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15:38 < dridri> hi o/
15:39 <+sadimusi> o/
15:39 < TkTech> \o
15:40 < dridri> I still have trouble to send player's position to server
15:40 < dridri> when I compare the proxyed data with the real client everything seems ok..
15:42 < dridri> I do as described here http://wiki.vg/How_to_Write_a_Client but doesn't work..
15:50 < dav1d> clonejo|offline: you played around with luad?
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16:32 < dridri> finally got it!
16:33 < dridri> the client just need to respond with the exact same data after receiving the first 0x0D command
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17:26 < pbunny> do ender chests work the same as regular chests?
17:26 < pbunny> same number of slots etc?
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20:12 < BizarreCake> What's the starting value for hunger saturation?
20:13 < BizarreCake> Does anyone know?
20:14 < BizarreCake> Oh nevermind, it's 20 too.
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21:59 < SupaYoshi> hey
21:59 < SupaYoshi> STorm2x around?
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22:26 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 5 commits to master [+5/-0/±20] http://git.io/nltUhA
22:26 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn aabfdde - Added read-only world classes for clients
22:26 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn a7e85ca - Added ability to save read only worlds, unload chunks
22:26 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 53f7fdd - Parse chunk packets in client
22:26 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 94c0d9d - Fix bug with 0x38 packets without light
22:26 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn df2f710 - Added ChunkRecieved event
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22:54 < erai> What is the largest packet the client can send?
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02:07 < Darker> Does anyone know how long should I wait before sending 0x0E (finish eating) to make the server accept eating?
02:08 < Darker> I cannot make the client to eat food.
02:08 < Darker> And  have the very same problem with arrows.
02:08 < Darker> *I have
02:16 < Darker> Does anyone know what packets are sent to the server when client is eating?
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03:38 < mappum> superjoe: can you update minecraft-protocol on npm to include that last pull request?
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10:15 < nickelpro> Hey, what packet is sent by the client to alert the server about a right click on a chest or crafting table?
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10:37 < pbunny> BlockCSS.png  0x8  Smooth Stone Slab (Double Only)
10:37 < pbunny> BlockCSS.png  0x9  Smooth Sandstone Slab (Double Only)
10:37 < pbunny> when should these variants be used?
10:38 < pbunny> instead of their regular (0x0 Stone Slab and 0x1 Sandstone Slab) variants
10:38 < SinZ> uhh
10:38 < SinZ> they just show odd textures
10:38 < SinZ> they arn't craftable
10:39 < SinZ> it shows the top face on all sides
10:39 < pbunny> ok
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11:32 < l4mRh4X0r> I suspect the type is detected with a 0x7 mask, and the texture without the mask :P
11:32 < l4mRh4X0r> Something like that
11:32  * l4mRh4X0r shrugs
11:33 < SinZ> its damage
11:33 < SinZ> like 43:3 is cobble(?)
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11:50 < pbunny> 2 blocks of quartz make 1 vertical pillar quartz block
11:50 < pbunny> how do i make horizontal pillar quartz blocks?
11:51 < SinZ> two slabs iirc
11:51 < l4mRh4X0r> I know it's damage, but I meant for the rendering.
11:51 < SinZ> l4mRh4X0r: he is doing server
11:51 < l4mRh4X0r> I know.
11:52 < l4mRh4X0r> I was just trying to think of a logical explanation for that oddity.
11:52 < l4mRh4X0r> pbunny, you may wanna look here: http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Crafting
11:52 < pbunny> l4mRh4X0r: i am looking right here atm
11:53 < l4mRh4X0r> ah :P
11:53 < pbunny> i see only vertical pillar quartz block, however there are metadatas for north-south and west-east pillar quartz blocks too
11:53 < pbunny> SinZ: two slabs make chiseled quartz block
11:54 < l4mRh4X0r> Isn't a quartz pillar like logs?
11:55 < pbunny> maybe
11:55 < l4mRh4X0r> i.e. use the metadata value to determine direction :P
11:56 < l4mRh4X0r> Yup. http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Data_values#Block_of_Quartz
11:56 < pbunny> i know. the question was about how do i craft one
11:56 < l4mRh4X0r> Not.
11:56 < l4mRh4X0r> It's determined by the placement.
11:56 < pbunny> or maybe there are some circumstances when vertical pillars become horizontal
11:56 < pbunny> oh
11:58 < l4mRh4X0r> Just like logs and pistons
12:00 < pbunny> iirc logs do not have texture direction stored in metadata though
12:00 < pbunny> its a client thing
12:00 < pbunny> that's why pillar quartz block made me confused
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12:16 < pbunny> "Contents of the chest are put into all Ender Chests created, but the contents are localised to the player in SMP."
12:16 < pbunny> is it true?
12:16 < pbunny> all ender chests actually use inventory stored somewhere in player?
12:18 < jast> well yeah
12:18 < jast> how else could that work
12:24 < SinZ> vannila saves enderchest in their player.dat file
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12:46 < Darker> By any chance, does any one known what packet sequence and timing is required to shoot an arrow? I only achieved to charge the bow (0x0F), but shooting failed
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13:45 < Darker> Could anyone give me a hint on arrow shooting sequence?
13:52 < Darker> Can I set bukkit to send debug info with received packets?
13:53 < Darker> So I will know what official client is sending to the server?
14:06 <+sadimusi> Darker: you could try SMProxy and only let it display the relevant packets
14:07 < Darker> I will try this
14:07 < Darker> Displaying relevant packets is exactly what i need
14:09 < Darker> Where do I get it?
14:09 <+sadimusi> https://github.com/SirCmpwn/SMProxy
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14:16 < Darker> Thank you. I hope I'll be able to compile it. Usually I fail with compiling others projects
14:20 < Darker> For which version of microsoft visual C++ is the SMProxy? My IDE refuses to open it :(
14:24 < SinZ> its C#
14:24 < SinZ> and it needs visual studio 2012 iirc
14:29 < Darker> That explains a lot, I have Microsoft Visual C++ 2010. What does "iirc" mean?
14:30 < Flemmard> if i remember correctly
14:30 < Flemmard> something like that :)
14:31 < Darker> Well, showed up that microsoft visial 2012 is not freeware. Any chance of importing into code::blocks, or I'll have to steal it?
14:32 < Flemmard> there's some express versions of VS
14:34 < Darker> See it, thank you. Just didn't know that "Express" means "Free" in microsoft :D
14:35 < Flemmard> it's "light"
14:37 < Darker> By the way, does anyone have Windows version compiled? This installing and compilling is so annoying for me, that I'd rather trust a binary file from a stranger
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14:41 < Flemmard> i can try
14:41 < Flemmard> master branch ?
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14:49 < Flemmard> Darker ?
14:49 < Flemmard> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/27861013/Release.zip
14:49 < Flemmard> freshly compiled
14:52 < Darker> Downloaded, thank you :)
14:52 < Darker> (hoping its not remote admin daemon :P)
14:52 < Flemmard> lol no it's built, packed, uploaded
14:52 < Darker> Just joking :)
14:52 < Flemmard> then if there's a remote daemon in SMproxy ...
14:52 < Flemmard> not my fault :P
14:52 < Flemmard> lol
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14:53 < Flemmard> i know
14:53 < Darker> Right now, my pc is so lagged, that even I can't control it...
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14:53 < Darker> There wouldn't be much fun with radmin :D
14:56 < Flemmard> haha
14:56 < Flemmard> there's always the file access, no need for screen control :P
14:58 < Flemmard> so it works ?
14:59 < Darker> Its awesome :D
15:00 < Darker> If i knew about this before, I coul've played minecraft from school
15:00 < Darker> (well, and if i could compile it for linux)
15:00 < Flemmard> you could use mono for it
15:00 < Darker> But now, there is some badass XML. Time to read some configuration docs
15:01 < Darker> Omg those logs are so cool! :D
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15:14 < Darker> What's wrong with this: SMProxy.exe --omit-server --unfilter 0x13,0x66,0x6C,0xCC,0xCD,0xFE,0x00,0x0D,0x0C,0x0B ?
15:15 < Darker> What else should I do with packets to make SMProxy accept the ignore list?
15:23 < Darker> Turned out that 0x is not required
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15:42 < pbunny> "The placement of the wool block and dye doesn't matter as long as they are both in the crafting grid."
15:42 < pbunny> any other recipes with same behavior (non-important ingredient placement)?
15:44 < SinZ> there are quite a few shapeless recipes
15:44 < pbunny> oh.
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17:00 < Darker> Does anyone know how to convert X,Z vector to player Yaw rotation?
17:00 < Darker> I'm so bad with goniomethry... :(
17:01 < Darker> Can't even make reverse of what is advised here: http://wiki.vg/Protocol#Player_Look_.280x0C.29
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18:17 < ml__> Hello
18:17 < ml__> Is there a way for the server to make the client not use encryption?
18:18 < ml__> I'm currently doing a minecraft server in c++, and I can't get encryption to work
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18:21 < Flemmard> that's not the best idea
18:21 < Flemmard> you better focus on making encryption work
18:21 < Flemmard> then you'll be "good"
18:23 < ml__> Okay...
18:23 < Flemmard> as now it's the base of the protocol .. :)
18:25 < ml__> So, for getting the QByteArray to send to the minecraft client, I use the following code: http://pastebin.com/LthGNFkr
18:25 < ml__> It doesn't work...  The client can't parse the data I send to it...
18:26 < ml__> Inside the Packet I use the following code to send to the client: http://pastebin.com/kAE6mai2
18:28 < roblabla> Qt ?
18:28 < roblabla> I like thqt :D
18:29 < roblabla> *thqt
18:29 < roblabla> derp.
18:29 < ml__> I get the following from the client: http://pastebin.com/Jsqe0Uwt
18:29 < ml__> Do I have to send the QByteArray encoded as a string?
18:29 < roblabla> No
18:29 < roblabla> For the protocol encryption packets, they're sent as byte arrays
18:30 < ml__> basically, just send one byte after another
18:30 < roblabla> Let me check, but I think so yeah
18:31 < ml__> my byte array ends with "01 00 01", like the vanilla minecraft server's packe
18:31 < ml__> *packet
18:33 < roblabla> yeah, so the bytes should just be next to each other
18:33 < ml__> yes, they are...
18:33 < roblabla> hmm
18:34 < ml__> Wait, I'll show you my wireshark packet
18:34 < roblabla> Yeah
18:34 < roblabla> was going to ask that lol
18:34 < roblabla> Also, what's the error ?
18:34 < roblabla> Oh
18:34 < ml__> http://pastebin.com/Jsqe0Uwt
18:35 < ml__> http://pastebin.com/SAbeXutp -> my packet
18:36 < roblabla> So your rsa key is invalid
18:37 < roblabla> Either you send the key wrong, or what you send isn't what minecraft expects
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18:38 < SupaYoshi> hello
18:38 < SupaYoshi> storm2x around?
18:40 < roblabla> is wiki.vg down ?
18:41 < ml__> Yes it is
18:41 < ml__> So, I'll try to use crypto++ instead of openssl now...
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18:47 < roblabla> ml__: take a look at this : http://pastebin.com/CtTCt2HT
18:47 < roblabla> this is how my nodejs server sends the 0xFD packet
18:48 < roblabla> I turn my server key into a PEM string array (one array entry per line in the PEM). 
18:49 < roblabla> Then I just have an str containing all the USEFUL lines of the PEM (the lines containing the key), create a Buffer (essentially a byte array) that loads this string as base64, and then send that buffer to the client
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19:05 < pbunny> Darker: http://dpaste.org/PhYN2/raw/ - thats how i convert yaw to z and x vector
19:05 < pbunny> you should do something reverse
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19:12 < Darker> That is the problem. I don't know how to reverse the operation...
19:12 < Darker> For now, i do this: atan2(vector[Z],vector[X])*(180.0/M_PI)+90
19:13 < Darker> I don't know why do I have to swap coordinates
19:13 < Darker> neigther I know why to add 90 degrees to the resilt
19:13 < Darker> I achieved this by trying and trying
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19:46 < Darker> Am I the only one who can't reach  http://wiki.vg?
19:48 <+ammar2> nope, it seems to be down
19:48 <+ammar2> kev009: poke
19:59 < edk> why do we never discuss alternative wiki options until it goes down?
20:00 < Darker> Is it backpued soewhere btw?
20:00 < edk> google cache
20:00 < Darker> yeah, besides that
20:00 < edk> don't think so
20:00 < Darker> google cached version is unreadable - all tables broken
20:01 < Darker> I'm now glad I at least downloaded the protocol docs
20:01 < edk> google caches the source too
20:02 < Darker> Did I access it wrongly? http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:wiki.vg/Object_Data
20:02 < Darker> I see no CSS, just pure HTML
20:02 < edk> no, that's right
20:02 < edk> but you can still get the page source from the cache
20:02 < edk> which you could use to populate a new wiki if needed
20:03 < Darker> By the way, is there some discusion page to discuss wiki changes?
20:03 < edk> here, mostly
20:03 < Darker> I'm not that self confident to change anything, but I had a few ideas
20:07 < pbunny> i am still struggling to show players' head yaws right to players that comein
20:08 < Darker> I just achieved to do this
20:08 < pbunny> i send spawn named entity packet for player, then headlook packet for it
20:08 < pbunny> it doesn't work
20:08 < pbunny> however headlook packets work later
20:08 < Darker> Ah, from the server side... Than I can't help
20:08 < pbunny> i.e. when player turns a bit, his head fixes to surrounding players
20:08 < pbunny> until that he has like broken neck
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20:12 < Darker> And are you doing the float>byte conversion properly?
20:16 < pbunny> Darker: i send the headyaw packet on players' dump the same way as it is sent later (when players turn)
20:16 < pbunny> yaw is the same too
20:16 < pbunny> for some reason packet doesn't work if sent right after "spawn named entity" packet
20:18 < Darker> But players are sending it as float, you must convert it to byte
20:18 < Darker> This is where it could easily go wrong
20:19 < pbunny> when players sent them and i resent them to other players, it works
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20:19 < pbunny> it doesn't work if i.e. one player was standing still (no turning) when other connected
20:20 < pbunny> other player then sees first one with broken neck
20:20 < pbunny> when first one turns, it fixes for second one
20:21 < Darker> Well, if you only update rotation when a player rotates, its kinda only thing that can happen
20:21 < Darker> You should have the rotation saved and send it even to newly connected players
20:21 < pbunny> i do that.
20:22 < pbunny> i send it right after i sent "spawn named entity" packet which spawns the player
20:22 < Darker> You can include rotation in 0x14, you know that?
20:22 < pbunny> i use the same routing, same packet, same yaw
20:22 < pbunny> Darker: but not head rotation
20:22 < pbunny> body is rotated, but head is looking to same direction
20:23 < pbunny> the same routine *
20:24 < Darker> Hey guys this is veird
20:24 < Darker> I just tryed to sniff for arrow spawn
20:24 < Darker> and it seems to have ID 60 (decimal)
20:24 < Darker> when http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Data_values states its ID 10 decimal
20:36 < Darker> Hello, I've a bit theoretical question...
20:37 < Darker> My bot is supposed to dodge flying arrows
20:40 < pbunny> you can't move fast enough iirc
20:41 < Darker> According to my test, you can jump one block in a flash
20:41 < pbunny> you should focus on neural networks, bot with true AI will learn to predict his opponents
20:41 < Darker> :D
20:41 < pbunny> even you
20:41 < Darker> First, I will make it at least strictly mathematic
20:42 < pbunny> i am going to use neural networks for AI of major mob leaders
20:49 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/rNHqbg
20:49 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 6932fd6 - Update README.md
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--- Day changed sam. mars 23 2013
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00:32 < erai> will resending a chunk force it to be updated in the client
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00:55 < umby25> erai: I would say it probably would.
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02:16 < TkTech> edk: Because laziness, I assume. No one wants to convert all the content
02:18 < roblabla> TkTech: Wouldn't it be possible to just make a caching mirror ?
02:18 < roblabla> Actually, that's not a question
02:18 < roblabla> because it is possible
02:18 < roblabla> Just nobody thought about it :P
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02:20 < TkTech> What do you mean? When it goes down for a few minutes we just use the google cache
02:21 < TkTech> (Less then perfect, but free [in both $$ and time])
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05:35 < SinZ> did anything change in 1.5.1?
05:35 < SinZ> b.wiki.vg doesn't want to talk about it
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13:37 < pbunny> hi
13:38 < pbunny> any useful links about world generation?
13:38 < pbunny> or maybe some code
13:40 <+Fador> http://notch.tumblr.com/post/3746989361/terrain-generation-part-1 ;)
13:40 < pbunny> thx
13:44 < dav1d> perlin worm!
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21:02 < pbunny> weird
21:02 < pbunny> i sent lighting data with shadows
21:02 < pbunny> player sees shadows from a distance, but when closes in - they disappear
21:02 < pbunny> like if client does his own lighting processing
21:03 < pbunny> anyway, i would like exact formula for lighting calculation
21:03 < eddyb> the client does do its own lighting calculations
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21:04 < pbunny> so server's calculation must be the same?
21:08 < dav1d>  the client does
21:08 < pbunny> but server needs to send lighting data
21:08 < pbunny> doesn't it?
21:09 < dav1d> everything else would kill bamdwith
21:09 < dav1d> yes a single time
21:09 < dav1d> with the mapchunkbulk
21:12 < pbunny> and how must server generate lighting data
21:12 < pbunny> ?
21:12 < pbunny> any formulas?
21:13 < dav1d> no sircmpwn wrote a gist with several attempts, ideas but nothing is trivial
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21:47 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: So, in 2237 the running cost of a bus is $64,422/year.
21:47 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: They're totally unusable after 2100 or so
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21:59 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: hehe
21:59 < Darker> hello
21:59 < Darker> please, do you have an idea, if C++ std:: provides some ZLib decompressing library?
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22:16 < eddyb> Darker: no
22:16 < eddyb> std:: is bare bones
22:17 < eddyb> boost might have zlib somewhere
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22:28 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 2 commits to master [+7/-0/±16] http://git.io/E_hbRw
22:28 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn a5b926f - Fixed various bugs with Linux/Mac support
22:28 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 9d2eb61 - Merge branch 'master' of github.com:SirCmpwn/Craft.Net into HEAD
22:32 < Not-001> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-1/±6] http://git.io/Q2dGlw
22:32 < Not-001> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn ffc904d - Fixed issues for Linux/Mac support
22:32 < Not-001> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn a6c57ca - Added note to README about HTTPS certs in Mono
22:36 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/BAVs8A
22:36 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 28edb02 - Updated README to mention issues with certs on mono
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23:04 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±12] http://git.io/f35F0Q
23:05 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn cf1896f - Fixed bugs with compiling on mono
23:05 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 206dfd7 - Fixed hardness and drop for diamond ore
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02:10 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 34654cd - Changed visibility of AcceptConnectionAsync
02:39 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±3] http://git.io/ZohBwg
02:39 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 7dcdfc8 - Added to Craft.Net.Data.Level to allow for singleplayer levels to be saved
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13:45 < ml__> Hello
13:45 < ml__> I have a question regarding the minecraft protocol
13:47 < ml__> After the server sends the login packet (0x01), the client sends back two packets: 204 and 13
13:47 < ml__> Is it normal that I get packet 13 so early on?
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13:52 < roblabla> ml__: packet 13 ?
13:53 < ml__> packet 0x0c (Player Position and look)
13:53 < roblabla> Oh
13:54 < ml__> wait..
13:54 < ml__> wrong
13:54 < ml__> 0x0d
13:54 < roblabla> Well yeah
13:54 < roblabla> after the client recieves login packet, it will recieve map chunks
13:54 < roblabla> and once it has them, it will send the ready to spawn packet
13:54 < ml__> Okay... But I never sent it map chunks
13:55 < roblabla> Are you sure it's the notchian client ?
13:55 < ml__> Yeah I use the vanilla minecraft 1.5.1 client
13:55 < roblabla> http://wiki.vg/Protocol_FAQ
13:55 < ml__> Yeah I already know that page
13:55 < roblabla> that's how it's supposed to work
13:56 < ml__> I'm getting the payload
13:56 < ml__> then I'm sending the login response
13:56 < ml__> And I should just go on and send the chunks? Ignore packet 13?
13:56 < ml__> (or 0x0d)
13:57 < roblabla> Oh
13:57 < roblabla> Do you send them a player look position ?
13:57 < roblabla> Player Position + Look packet
13:57 < ml__> Nope
13:57 < ml__> The last thing I send is the packet 0x01 (Login)
13:58 < roblabla> :|
13:58 < ml__> But I read: "The standard Minecraft server sends full chunks only when your client is sending player status update packets (any of Player (0x0A) through Player Position & Look (0x0D))."
13:58 < ml__> So maybe that's why the client sends me that packet ;D
13:58 < roblabla> Normally, the server sends 0x01, all the necessary things like entities/map chunk, and then a 0x0d to the client
13:59 < roblabla> then client replies with the same 0x0d
13:59 < ml__> funny...
13:59 < roblabla> I'm not a pro at the minecraft protocol, you should use wireshark to see how notchian client/server handles it
14:00 < ml__> Yeah
14:00 < roblabla> maybe it changed and the page is outdated ?
14:00 < ml__> But that stuff I want to see is encrypted...
14:00 < ml__> With rsa.
14:01 < roblabla> Put the server in offline mode
14:01 < ml__> Offline mode disables encryption?
14:01 < roblabla> eeh, nvm that
14:01 <+Fador> when in offline mode, you can skip encryption
14:02 < ml__> Does the notchian server disable encryption when in offline mode?
14:03 <+Fador> just send login responde (0x01) instead of encryption request (0xfd) ;)
14:03 <+Fador> *response
14:03 < roblabla> Yeah but the notchian client won't do it
14:03 < roblabla> I believe
14:03 <+Fador> it will
14:03 <+Fador> at least it worked with 1.4.6 ;)
14:05 <+Fador> https://github.com/fador/mineserver/blob/master/src/packets.cpp#L609 I still have the option in my server
14:05 < roblabla> Wasn't there a minecraft mod to export the rsa key to import it in wireshark or something ?
14:05 <+Fador> just haven't tried it recently =D
14:06 < roblabla> ml__: 
14:06 < roblabla> use https://github.com/SirCmpwn/SMProxy
14:07 < roblabla> http://sircmpwn.github.com/SMProxy/
14:07 < roblabla> (it has a download link)
14:10 < ml__> Thanks! Very helpful tool!
14:23 < ml__> Hm... I think I know where my problem is..
14:24 < ml__> I don't think I am allowed to send a Keep-Alive before sending the map...
14:24 < ml__> Also, SMProxy seems very bugged on linux
14:27 < ml__> SMProxy works for the vanilla server, but not for my server
14:27 < roblabla> ml__: I don't think keepalive would change anything
14:27 < roblabla> also use Mono for SMProxy
14:27 < roblabla> not wine
14:28 < ml__> I am using mono
14:28 < ml__> but the connection often resets for some reason
14:28 < roblabla> :/ dunno then
14:28 < ml__> And, you are right, the keepalive doesn't change anything
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14:29 < ml__> I think I should just ignore that packet until all data is sent
14:29 < ml__> and then read it
14:33 < ml__> Hm... got SMProxy working...
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15:11 < pbunny> Fador: what do you mean by "offline mode"?
15:12 < pbunny> if i understand correctly my server is in "offline mode", and notchian client still uses encryption
15:12 < roblabla> pbunny: that's cuz your server still sends encryption request
15:13 < roblabla> if your server is in offline mode, you can just go ahead and skip the encryption request/response packets, that's what I think he meant
15:13 <+Fador> pbunny: yeah, you have to skip the encryption request if you dont want to use it
15:14 < pbunny> oh
15:15 <+Fador> I don't think this behavior is documented in the wiki and it might be a "bug" of some sort in the client that you can skip encryption
15:16 <+Fador> I was playing around after implementing the protocol encryption and noticed you can do that.. ;)
15:17 < roblabla> Fador: it's not documented anywhere. And I suppose it's due to how minecraft handles the packets he receives. 
15:18 <+Fador> yeah
15:18 <+Fador> it switches the input/ouput streams after some packet or so
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15:21 < roblabla> I know doing this kind of trick breaks pyCraft and other third-party minecraft clients though
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16:06 <+ammar2> yeah, its a quirk with the vanilla client, ideally you should just support encryption
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17:59 < MonkeyPwns> Hi
18:05 < MonkeyPwns> Does anyone know a good tool to deobfuscate/decompile Minecraft's Server other than MCP?
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20:43 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/T55bOg
20:43 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn c50bb26 - Update README.md
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21:55 < Not-001> [bravo] brutal-chaos pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/FUh8pw
21:56 < Not-001> [bravo] Justin Noah f0e98d7 - protocol: bumped to 60
21:57 < pbunny> hi, i would really like a link about how vanilla server/client handles lighting
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22:56 < pbunny> where can i get many players for testing my server (i.e. mutex stuff, cpu/ram usage etc)
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23:09 <+clonejo> pbunny: bots?
23:11 <+clonejo> There might be some documentation on lighting on Minecraftwiki
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23:14 < pbunny> clonejo: where can i get some bots?
23:14 <+clonejo> http://wiki.vg/Client_List
23:15 <+clonejo> pbunny: http://wiki.vg/wiki/index.php?search=bot&title=Special%3ASearch ;-)
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23:29 < pbunny> ok, my server uses ~200MB of RAM and ~1% of CPU core when 5 minecraft clients connected
23:30 < pbunny> i can't handle more of mc clients, every of them is using 1GB :[
23:35 < pbunny> i would use bots but they will need to login with /login <nick> <password> (and perhaps register first) to be able to test the actual world
23:36 < edk> simulate them from within your server
23:40 < pbunny> code internal mc client? no thx
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07:13 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1935 3 files : Updated fNbt to release 0.5 
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07:14 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1936 9 files : Made necessary code changes for fNbt version update. 
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08:58 < TkTech> Random: I find it funny I can buy a 20lb frozen turkey for $20, or drive for ten minutes and buy two fat, living turkeys for $35
08:58 < TkTech> Although I imagine butchering them in an apartment would be one hell of a show.
09:08 <+Ac-town> yeah that wouldn't be that fun
09:11 <+md_5> Dinnerbone sorry to bug you, but since iirc you wrote item merging: https://github.com/EcoCityCraft/Spigot/blob/master/CraftBukkit-Patches/0003-Merge-tweaks-and-configuration.patch#L34
09:11 <+md_5> swapping which item merges into which is SO much prettier for the player
09:12 <+md_5> since they see the dropped items being absorbed
09:12 <+md_5> compared to disapearing and confusing them
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09:24 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: then take into account your hourly salery and the time it would take to butcher them.
09:28 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: Doesn't take that long if you skin instead of pluck.
09:28 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: 99% of the time is letting them drain
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14:36 < pbunny> can somebody advice bot for server benchmarking?
14:37 < pbunny> bot that joins and does stuff
14:37 < pbunny> or maybe some scripting framework but not nodejs
14:38 < dav1d> nodejs
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14:39 < pbunny> not nodejs
14:39 < pbunny> don't want to compile it
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15:14 <+clonejo> pbunny: ppa?
15:21 <+ammar2> pbunny: I have a simply python program that can spawn up to any number of bots that move around randomly
15:21 <+ammar2> assuming this is in the minecraft client context ofcourse
15:22 < edk> (presumably you need to disable auth)
15:27 <+ammar2> edk: unless you own as many accounts as you need bots, yes ^_^
15:27 < pbunny> oh, notchian auth is always disabled
15:27 < pbunny> i have my own auth
15:27 < pbunny> you must type /login nick password, then portal to real world appears and you must enter it
15:28 <+ammar2> pbunny: http://www.spigotmc.org/threads/stress-testing-servers.175/
15:28 <+ammar2> you can add in that command sending if you want, python is simple enough to modify
15:28 <+ammar2> yay interpretation
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15:38 < Valdi|Laptop> what means "0x6: Standing in ground" for torches (in the minecraft wiki)?
15:38 < Valdi|Laptop> IN the ground?!
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15:42 < pbunny> Valdiralita: probably means "bottom of the torch is in the ground"
15:43 < Valdiralita> ive never seen this ingame :o
15:43 < pbunny> anyway just try it and see
15:43 < jast> take torch, look at top of a block, place torch
15:43 < jast> bam, upright torch
15:43 < Valdiralita> lol okay thanks
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04:27 < Viligeman122> i have a really cool idea fir game
04:27 < Viligeman122> for
04:27 < Connor1301> finnaly some one says something
04:28 < Viligeman122> lol
04:28 < Viligeman122> conner
04:28 < Connor1301> its been a long time since any one has talked
04:28 < Viligeman122> do u have a server
04:29 < Connor1301> u mean a channel?
04:29 < Viligeman122> no minecraft server
04:29 < Connor1301> oh i used to
04:29 < Connor1301> but...
04:29 < Viligeman122> what happend
04:30 < Connor1301> well i dont really know
04:30 < Viligeman122> lol
04:30 < Connor1301> thats the problem
04:30 < Viligeman122> did it crash
04:30 < Connor1301> sort o
04:30 < Connor1301> of
04:31 < Viligeman122> is it hosted by u or a host
04:31 < Connor1301> by a host
04:31 < Connor1301> not by me
04:32 < Connor1301> i have to go:( bye
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04:32 < Viligeman122> aww
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04:41 < Viligeman122> hi
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11:44 <+Scootabyte> woops
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13:08 < pbunny> is it good idea to run every chunkcolumn is its own thread?
13:09 < pbunny> its physics, metaentity processing, maybe entities' AI
13:09 < pbunny> or maybe 10x10 chunks per thread
13:09 < pbunny> what problems can arise from that?
13:09 < edk> pbunny: the interaction at chunk boundaries would be problematic
13:10 < pbunny> edk: why?
13:10 < pbunny> just 1) lock mutexes of both chunks 2) transfer the needed entity/block/... 3) unlock mutexes
13:11 < edk> you'll likely end up with one of three scenarios:
13:11 < edk> 1) it's not thread safe and has race conditions and/or crashes randomly
13:11 < edk> 2) it wastes so much time waiting for mutexes to unlock that it's no better than doing everything on one thread
13:12 < pbunny> 2) - impossible
13:12 < pbunny> too many chuns columns, and each of them will interact only with nearby ones
13:12 < edk> 3) it's thread safe and lockless but the overhead is too much to make it worth it except for stupid numbers of CPUs
13:12 < pbunny> what overhead?
13:12 < pbunny> mutex lock/unlock takes about 17ns iirc
13:12 < edk> yes obviously locking a mutex is quick
13:12 < edk> waiting for a locked mutex isn't
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13:18 < pbunny> :/
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13:23 < pbunny> edk: but if i keep world in single thread, i will have to move entities' AI to separate thread
13:23 < pbunny> otherwise overhead on single core will be too big
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13:30 <+ammar2> don't you have like a 5k x 5k map loaded in memory at any given time, thats ~97500 chunks
13:31 <+ammar2> 97500 threads are not cheap
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13:31 < pbunny> i am thinking about regions consisting of 10x10 chunks
13:32 < pbunny> i will have 1500x1500 map for now
13:33 <+ammar2> ~88 threads, may work but good luck dealing with the thread safety
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23:26 < ellisvlad> hi
23:27 < ellisvlad> just a quick question from me
23:27 < umby24> ok
23:27 < ellisvlad> What is the packet id for dropping items in Minecraft 1.5 PC edition?
23:27 < ellisvlad> :P
23:27 < ellisvlad> I've looked all over, and can't find it :/
23:27 < umby24> just ask and anyone who is active that knows the answer will likely reply
23:28 < ellisvlad> cool, thanks
23:30 < umby24> 0xAA    DropItemPacket
23:30 < umby24> lacks documentation however
23:31 < ellisvlad> hmm, OK, thankyou ;)
23:37 < umby24> no problem
--- Day changed jeu. mars 28 2013
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12:35 < pbunny> umby24|offline: what is 0xAA DropItemPacket ?
12:35 < pbunny> my server uses 0x17 to spawn item entity and then Entity Velocity packet(s) to make it look dropped
12:36 <+Fador> ..minecraft pocket edition packets I believe
12:37 < SinZ> ^
12:39 < pbunny> **:21:54    ellisvlad | What is the packet id for dropping items in Minecraft 1.5 PC edition?
12:39 < pbunny> so by "PC edition" he meant pocket edition?
12:40 < SinZ> umbys client isn't up to item dropping fyi
12:40 < SinZ> didn't 1.5 stuff up entity dropping though
12:42 < l4mRh4X0r> Well, at least there's no such thing as packet 0xAA in the vanilla minecraft 1.5.1 server
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16:07 < dav1d> clonejo: o/
16:07 <+clonejo> dav1d: \o/
16:07 < dav1d> :D
16:10 <+clonejo> I'm implementing a new chunk storage mechanism for mc-erl right now
16:10 <+clonejo> it's based on Postgresql
16:10 < dav1d> cool
16:10 < dav1d> postgres rules!
16:11 <+clonejo> i figured a database is one of the best ways to store chunks
16:11 < dav1d> yeah only brings overhead
16:11 < dav1d> speed for size
16:11 < dav1d> same with hashmaps
16:11 < dav1d> :P
16:14 < dav1d> clonejo: I am about to play around with lua/luad and test the octaforge ui
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16:56 < TkTech> Alrighty, who wants a copy of Just Cause 2 on steam?
16:56 -!- Kyle_ is now known as Kyle
16:58 <+Fador> Great game btw =)
16:59 < Kyle> hmmm
16:59 < dav1d> TkTech: never heared of it, what genre?
16:59  * Kyle considers it
17:00 < TkTech> dav1d: You're dead to me.
17:00 < dav1d> :D
17:00 < Kyle> I'll let somebody else take a nab at it, I've played it before.
17:01 < dav1d> so
17:01 < dav1d> I have to kill ppl
17:03 < dav1d> sounds a bit like far cry
17:03 < Kyle> older than far cry 3, though
17:03 < Kyle> so more like "far cry 3 sounds a bit like this"
17:03 < dav1d> no
17:03 < dav1d> because I knew far cry before just cause 2
17:04 < dav1d> so just cause 2 sounds like far cry to me :P
17:04 < Kyle> doesn't make it older :p
17:04 < dav1d> anyways gtg
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18:39 < roblabla> TkTech: I
18:39 < roblabla> *I'd love a copy :D
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20:28 <+clonejo> dav1d: nice
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22:37 < jibcage> Hi, I'm having a bit of an issue getting a client I coded to work. I've looked at the protocol, and I'm sending a 0x0A-0x0D every 50ms. However when I add 1 to the x value, the player doesn't move.
22:37 < jibcage> For some reason I'm allowed to adjust yaw / pitch, and his head will move, but I can't get him to move himself.
22:59 < jibcage> Can anybody help? I also tried increasing x, y, and z by ridiculous amounts to see if my server would kick me, but it isn't doing that.
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22:59 < jibcage> Which makes no sense if I can adjust yaw and pitch, right?
23:00 <+md_5> it should just send you pack
23:00 <+md_5> 1 is way too big for the vanilla server
23:00 <+md_5> s/pack/back
23:00 <+md_5> try like 0.2
23:01 < jibcage> Oh? What's the largest I can feasibly increase it in a certain time period?
23:01 < jibcage> And I've checked, it only sends me a 0x0D twice : once upon connect, and once about 10 seconds later
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23:10 < umby24|offline> oi that guy yesterday said pc edition? thought he said pocket.
23:10 < umby24|offline> oops.
23:10 < umby24|offline> annnd im still marked as offline.
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--- Day changed ven. mars 29 2013
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00:43 < TkTech> Google alerts sometimes pops up with some…weird...things.
00:44 < TkTech> https://subversion.assembla.com/svn/goobcraft/trunk/core/protocol.py <-- Look at the "if" with my name in it.
00:44 < TkTech> Apparently on random servers my name gets coloured. Also, someone did not know python when they wrote that.
01:01 < AndrewPH|Alt> jegus that's a big if block
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01:06 < TkTech> AndrewPH: … https://gist.github.com/TkTech/e2bab758fa39c26c92c7
01:06 < TkTech> AndrewPH: It's just filled with horrors 
01:07 <+AndrewPH> now I remember why I never bothered looking at those bits
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01:27 < yorick> mappum: http://www.redstone.io/ works, but http://redstone.io times out
01:27 < mappum> yeah
01:28 < mappum> the first is a webserver, the second are the game servers
01:28 < mappum> is*
01:28 < TkTech> …why...
01:30 < umby24> ^
01:33 < mappum> because the servers are running on a bunch of ec2 machines
01:38 < TkTech> I'm missing something here.
01:38 < TkTech> This is silly, and will confuse a lot of people. Absolutely no one does it this way.
01:39 < TkTech> If you need a different A/CNAME record why would you not use server.redstone or s.redstrone or absolutely anything else
01:44 < TkTech> mappum: Bleh, keep alive timeout
01:44 < mappum> yeah, that's on the issue list :P
01:46 < TkTech> mappum: TBH, I would have waited and polished it before posting if you were seeking YC attention.
01:46 < TkTech> Better late than broken.
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01:46 < mappum> well tomorrow is the last day
01:47 < TkTech> Tomorrow is the last day of this series, you could have just waited for the next one.
01:47 < TkTech> Which is my point.
01:47 < mappum> and it's the idea we wanted people to like, not the implementation
01:47 < mappum> no, the applications must be submitted by tomorrow at midnight
01:48 < TkTech> ...
01:48 < mappum> we could email it to them late or something, but i don't think the amount of bugs is how they decide on who to fund
01:48 < mappum> our goal was for people to like the idea
01:48 < mappum> t
01:48 < TkTech> Tomorrow is the last day of this series (2013) of funding. You could have just waited for the next one.
01:48 < mappum> oh, i see
01:48 < mappum> that's 6 months from now
01:49 < mappum> we are starting to work on this full time, if we waited we would have to get real jobs again for a while :P
01:50 < TkTech> Ah, there we go. That's what I didn't get.
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01:54 < TkTech> mappum: Good luck, always fun to see a Minecraft-based success. Lots of people make their living on it.
01:56 < TkTech> sadimusi: Are you still maintaining b.wiki.vg?
01:56 < mappum> TkTech: thanks :D
01:58 <+sadimusi> TkTech: Not really, 1.5 completely broke burger
01:58 < TkTech> sadimusi: You have no idea how surprised I am that it survived this long (mostly due to your work on it)
01:59 <+sadimusi> The issues just seem to pile up faster than I have the motivation to fix them
02:00 < TkTech> sadimusi: I reached that point about 2 months after I started it.
02:00 <+sadimusi> mappum: Why don't you just use a SRV record for the game server?
02:00 < TkTech> ^- Or that, which is another good idea
02:02 <+sadimusi> Is that even documented anywhere?
02:02 < TkTech> mappum: Server just kick it?
02:03 < mappum> not that i am aware of
02:03 < TkTech> mappum: Dammit, fell off the map when I timed out and now I'm stuck in a black hole.
02:06 < mappum> yeah, some dude keeps opening the hole :/
02:11 < yorick> mappum: ip-ban him :P
02:12 < mappum> heh i haven't added any commands yet :/
02:12 < mappum> other than /notch and /snake
02:21 < yorick> mappum: it's broken!
02:22 < mappum> yeah :/
02:22 < mappum> because of bugs, not load D:
02:28 < yorick> mappum: it seems as if there is a flood in your chat
02:28 < mappum> :/
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18:03 < slowman> can anyone tell me when a mapchunk packet describes the x/z coordinates of a chunk.. which corner of the chunk it describes? is it the south eastern corner?
18:04 < slowman> *south western, even
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19:43 < umby24> slowman
19:43 < umby24> should be able to explore that yourself, through a vanilla minecraft client
19:43 < umby24> when you press f3 it shows your coords in the map, as well as chunk coords.
19:44 < umby24> but i don't think its the coords of a block in the chunk
19:44 < slowman> right okay, i'll have a look, thanks.
19:45 < umby24> rather, the game thinks of each chunk as one giant block for its own coords, but maybe someone else could clarify
19:45 < umby24> I havn't quite got to chunk loading in my bot yet :P tried but failed many times already.
19:46 < slowman> haha, yep. i'm failing at the moment. but yeah i think you're right, you have to times the chunk grid by 16 to get the actual coords
19:47 < umby24> something.. I've tried a few different formulas for getting the coords of each block.. but i keep stepping outside, or far below the ammount of data sent to me.. so I still get to figure that out
19:50 < slowman> yeah i'm having a similar problem, i think. trying to get block ids from any given coords, having trouble stepping through the data array of the packet.
19:50 < umby24> exactly
19:51 < umby24> so I decided to move on to inventory management first before i try again..
19:51 < umby24> but that's almost done now
19:52 < slowman> nice! yeah for some reason i can input any Y coordinate on the 0,0 xz of a chunk and it'll get me the correct block. as soon as i start adding x and z coordinates something strange is happening. i'm guessing it's someething to do with these biome bytes, but i'm not sure i understand where they actually occur
19:53 < umby24> hm.. i never tried that, I couldn't get any blocks that were even remotely close to what I had. but yeah, all the extra bytes are kinda throwing me off as well.
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23:53 < Not-001> [PyNBT] TkTech pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/_xljuw
23:53 < Not-001> [PyNBT] seventh 19bf5e6 - TAG_String length is a TAG_Short, so a signed integer
23:53 < Not-001> [PyNBT] TkTech b8c6494 - Merge pull request #8 from seventh/master Small bugfix
23:59 < TkTech> 153 lines of javascript and there are still edge cases.
--- Day changed sam. mars 30 2013
00:00 < TkTech> Trying to find the absolute position of an element right-clicked in the DOM is agonizing. [i]frames, relative elements inside fixed elements, parent offsets that don't account for borders...
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00:29 < yorick> TkTech: solution: don't use frames
00:35 < TkTech> yorick: This is a chrome extension, I have no say in the matter.
00:36 < yorick> doesn't chrome have some kind of .reallyGetAbsolutePositionNow() method?
00:36 < TkTech> Yeah, I wish.
00:37 < TkTech> (This is a portable extension, except for a bit of UI glue it works on Chrome/Safari/Firefox
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06:36 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1937 24 files : Marked branch 0.64x as abandoned 
06:37 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1938 2 files : Marked branch 0.70x as abandoned 
07:02 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1939 11 files : Updated assembly versions to 0.640 
07:04 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1940 3 files : Fixed MapGenerator sometimes locking up when working with tiny 16x16 maps (thanks 123DMWM). Improved error reporting in MapGenerator, to make bugs like this easier to catch in the future. 
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21:24 < umby24> Is it possible for the lighting data sent along with a map bulk chunk to only be 1024 bytes?
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21:46 < dav1d>  that's correct 
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23:58 < umby24> that's correct? i thought it was half byte per block?
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00:23 <+Amaranthus> I would think it'd always be a multiple of 2048 but I haven't looked too closely
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01:46 < umby24> any way i would be able to tell which bytes are lighting? Need to know so I can properly get the data for each column
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23:33 < cathode> has anyone made a custom mc server (or mod, i guess) that adds physics support for mechanisms with levers and axles and stuff like that?
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07:38 < OGK> Hi Q I didn't see answered in the wiki
07:38 < OGK> minecraft is a TCP protocol?
07:40 < OGK> The stream encryption inclines me towards "yes" but it seems strange for a game protocol.
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07:40 < AndrewPH|Alt> OGK: Minecraft uses TCP, yes.
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07:43 < OGK> thx. do you think I'd have fun writing a minecraft server in node.js? how much is handled by the client?
07:44 < SinZ> its been done
07:45 < OGK> Yeah, I'm not expecting to write anything as comprehensive as what's already out there...just wanna play with the protocol.
07:45 < OGK> and exercise my node skills. ;)
07:45 < SinZ> after you get passed the damn encryption, its fun
07:46 < OGK> what does a server attempting to be a stock server replacement have to implement?
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10:41 < edk> sorry
10:41 < edk> my client is a bit more retarded than i thought it was
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11:50 < OGK> yep, writing a node.js minecraft server is going to be difficult! :o
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16:53 < Stormx2> Hey folks. What are the "best" python NBT implementation around at the moment? I wrote my own a year ago but it's probably not as nice as some others' work.
17:07 < SinZ> TkTechs most likely
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17:23 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: ^
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17:52 < TkTech> Stormx2: There's twoolies (which is more popular) and mine (which has nothing unique about it).
17:52 < TkTech> I wrote mine to be minimal and as a reference for when I was writing the NBT wiki page.
17:53 < TkTech> https://github.com/twoolie/NBT & https://github.com/TkTech/PyNBT
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19:18 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 2 commits to 2.0-april-fools [+4/-0/±8] http://git.io/U6u3Dw
19:18 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn bf0bcc3 - Update protocol version
19:18 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 5bf0752 - Added 2.0 blocks and items
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01:50 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 3 commits to refactoring [+20/-0/±11] http://git.io/TpeCYg
01:50 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn de7e51b - Removed Craft.Net.Data from build
01:50 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 701b107 - Define Craft.Net.Utilities
01:50 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 4f86273 - Started refactoring Level
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02:19 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 2 commits to refactoring [+9/-25/±9] http://git.io/JCkidw
02:19 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 54acd4a - Reorganizing unit tests
02:19 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn f703e37 - Finished most of Level refactoring
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04:15 < x56> ##windowsphone
04:15 < x56> whoops...
04:38 < TkTech> Wait a minute, when was the last time the wiki.vg bot said anything in here...
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04:44 < TkTech> Huh, nope still working. Just no edits.
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05:05 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to refactoring [+0/-0/±4] http://git.io/__kBOQ
05:05 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 80bf386 - Further work on adding back Level functionality, now supports unlimited worlds
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09:28 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to refactoring [+0/-0/±4] http://git.io/cA3KJw
09:28 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 78e3a90 - Removing majority of code in other classes, will be rewritten
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10:47 < Sanky> Hey, so what's up with Minecraft Pocket edition?  Can you connect to arbitrary servers?
10:50 <+md_5|away> Um
10:50 <+md_5|away> Don't think so y err t
10:50 <+md_5|away> Yet
10:50 < Sanky> what's it for then ~_~
10:50 < Sanky> wake me up when yes :p
10:51 <+md_5|away> WiFi and Bluetooth servers
10:51 < Sanky> no internet servers?  lame
10:52 < Sanky> thanks for the info though
10:52 < SinZ> it would rape peoples puny bandwidth on mobiles
10:53 <+md_5|away> It's UDP and efficient afaik
10:53 < Sanky> that's not an excuse
10:53 < SinZ> and they are working on implementing minecraft realms to pocket iirc
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10:54 < Sanky> I just want to connect to my server from my phone
10:54 < Sanky> why is that so hard
10:55 < SinZ> simple minecraft pocket edition != minecraft PC edition
10:56 < Sanky> and apparently xbox is totally different too?? 
10:56 < Sanky> why aren't they working off a single codebase ?_?
10:56 < SinZ> because Mobile and xbox hate java
10:56 < SinZ> and pc edition was made in java
10:56 < Sanky> game logic should be shared
10:57 < SinZ> well, xbox was made by a different company
10:57 <+md_5|away> I agree
10:57 < Sanky> yes and it's getting the same updates regular minecraft is, just a couple months behind.  so dumb
10:57 < SinZ> and pocket wanted to change things up, as mobile was designed to have a different play feel
10:57 <+md_5|away> Like doodle jump for stupid
10:57 <+md_5|away> Droid
10:57 < Sanky> also fine, they're different
10:57 <+md_5|away> Has libdoodle.so
10:57 < Sanky> still could write a proxy between pocket client and regular server
10:58 < SinZ> proxy between udp and tcp, fun
10:58 < Sanky> that's the least of my concerns
10:58 <+md_5|away> When they can actually connect to external IPS I plan to add to my proxy
10:58 <+md_5|away> Bungeecord
10:59 < Sanky> what's it proxy
10:59 < SinZ> with a weird github name
10:59 < SinZ> Sanky: ...minecraft
10:59 < Sanky> oh servers huh
11:00 < SinZ> md_5|away: support minecraft 2.0 on bungeecord yet?
11:00 < Sanky> well, a pocket client <> regular server is definitely on my todo list
11:01 <+md_5|away> On holiday
11:01 <+md_5|away> Barely know what 2.0 is
11:01 <+ammar2> SinZ: "(SinZ) because Mobile and xbox hate java" meet android
11:01 <+ammar2> it loves java
11:01 < SinZ> mobile is on iOS too
11:01 <+ammar2> pftt, I know
11:02 < SinZ> and android hates java applets, which is what minecraft is actually on
11:02 <+ammar2> lolwat
11:02 <+ammar2> minecraft isn't a java applet
11:02 < SinZ> yes it is
11:02 <+ammar2> the full downloadable version that is
11:02 < SinZ> the launcher makes a frame to put the applet on
11:02 <+md_5|away> Its not an applet
11:03 < Sanky> pretty sure that's not how it works
11:03  * SinZ dives into logs
11:03 < Sanky> I mean sure a launcher makes a frame but applet doesn't mean anything special
11:09 < SinZ> the launchers code shows creating the applet from the class net.minecraft.client.MinecraftApplet
11:18 <+md_5|away> That doesn't mean it's an applet
11:19 <+ammar2> the applet itself is merely a wrapper to show the actual window
11:20 <+ammar2> could just as easily be in swing or whatever
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13:25 < Sanky> are there any minecraft clones for android with multiplayer...
13:31 < dav1d> minecraft pocket edition
13:32 < Sanky> real multiplayer, with static servers
13:33 < SinZ> last I checked, this was #mcdevs and not #android
13:34 < Sanky> last time I checked custom/open clients fell under what #tmdevs discussed
13:34 < Sanky> (then again, the last time I checked was over a year ago.)
13:35 < SinZ> I don't think there are anyone that talk of minecraft clones for mobile
13:35 < SinZ> there are clients/servers that support pocket edition protocol though
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13:40 < shoghicp> hi
13:40 < SinZ> ohai
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16:12 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1941 5 files : Fixed world greetings not being saved between restarts (port from 0.64x) Added a couple utility methods to Paths (NormalizeDirName and MakeRelativePath) to accommodate upcoming MapRenderer and MapConverter improvements. 
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16:27 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1942 8 files : Ported improvements to MapUtility.LoadHeader/TryLoadHeader from 0.64x 
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16:38 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1943 6 files : MapRenderer/MapConverter: Now only allow either one directory, or one-or-more files to be specified. Multiple directories, and mixed directories/files are no longer allowed. New --regex and --tryhard flags for MapRenderer and MapConverter. MapRenderer/MapConverter: Disabled fallback map conversion (which significantly slowed down trying to convert non-maps when recursing a whole directo
16:41 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1944 2 files : Expanded "Player ___ logged in from an IP shared by banned players..." to include frozen players as well. Removed some ancient compatibility code from UpdateInstaller. 
16:49 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1945 3 files : fCraft no longer tries to use "mono-sgen" binary, now just using "mono" and assuming that runtime is properly configured. (backport) UpdateInstaller is now more flexible with --restart parameter: It's no longer required to be a .NET binary, now it can be anything that a console could execute. (backport) 
16:52 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1946 2 files : Dropped Mono 2.6 support. Fixed /wload showing incorrect map file names when prompting to replace files (thanks Smokeybacon) 
16:52 < cathode> damn someone's been busy...
17:02 < SinZ> very busy for classic server software
17:04 < shoghicp> You won't want have PocketMine-MP commits here ;)
17:04 < shoghicp> uh, the MCPE livestream is going to start
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22:57 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to refactoring [+3/-1/±9] http://git.io/ySc1Ww
22:58 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 90aada9 - Added NBT_List serialization
23:15 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to refactoring [+1/-0/±4] http://git.io/wKTq0A
23:15 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 8be1d3a - Added INbtSerializable for custom serialization
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23:31 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to refactoring [+0/-0/±3] http://git.io/ZuvxbQ
23:31 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 5fa9838 - Added NBT serialization bindings to Chunks and Sections
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10:46 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r1947 4 files : Minor change in Mono.Options, to take advantage of new .NET features (contravariance). Bundled fNbt (not hooked up yet) for indev map loading. 
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18:57 < toqueteos> guys are links of packets 0x29 and 0x2A ok on wiki.vg/Protocol?
18:57 < toqueteos> it seems both should point to the same link for the Effect Id info link
19:02 < Thinkofdeath> toqueteos: Both should point to the mcwiki table by the looks of it
19:02 < toqueteos> yep, that's it
19:03 < toqueteos> but i'm not minecraft protocol expert so had to ask here
19:03 < toqueteos> those two packets handle potion effects, right? nothing else
19:03 < Thinkofdeath> yep
19:03 < SinZ> 29 and 2A, aye..
19:05 < Thinkofdeath> Changed it
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19:18 < toqueteos> thanks Thinkofdeath!
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04:14 < dreadiscool> Does anyone have a tutorial on how to use the new bukkit scoreboard API?
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04:15 <+ammar2> #bukkitdev, irc.esper.net
04:15 < dreadiscool> I'm banned off there for reasons I don't know :3
04:16 < dreadiscool> Not really, I got into an argument with mbaxter
04:16 < dreadiscool> Could someone point me in the right direction?
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10:20 < mulka> hi
10:20 < TkTech> mulka: No.
10:20 < mulka> maybe?
10:20 < TkTech> There have been a few attempts, nothing functional.
10:20 < mulka> haha... you know my question already
10:39 < mulka> how about just a web viewer for minecraft worlds?
10:47 < masterm> mulka: execuse my curiosity: what is the question? ;)
10:49 < mulka> has anyone started on an HTML5 client for minecraft
10:50 <+Fador> http://voxeljs.com
10:50 < mulka> voxeljs looks cool, but it doesn't connect to a minecraft server, does it?
10:50 < mulka> or read minecraft world files?
10:50 <+Fador> I don't think so ;)
10:53 < eddyb> mulka: I tried like two years ago, I didn't have the time to keep working on it
10:53 < eddyb> and I wanted to have lots of features, I was dreaming instead of working on it :(
10:55 < TkTech> Small world, #voxel.js uses Notifico.
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10:58 < mulka> seems like voxel.js has the rendering down, now just to convert the file format
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17:33 < rom1504> mulka: there's https://github.com/vogonistic/mineflayer-voxel that uses voxel.js (and mineflayer), it does connect to a server
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14:10 < Ghoul__> Quick question, whats the longest packet minecraft will send in bytes?
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14:12 < Ghoul__> I need to allocate a static buffer for an incoming packet
14:13 < Ghoul__> But there's no point me allocating 10kb if 1kb is perfectly fine and minecraft has a hard-cap or something
14:13 < Ghoul__> Anyone know?
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16:47 < Not-002> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 pushed 6 commits to master [+0/-0/±9] http://git.io/0B94iw
16:47 < Not-002> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo 38f4699 - Unrecognized packetId error printing id in hex
16:47 < Not-002> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo 0ff4907 - friendlyFire on 0xd1 package id changed from bool to byte type
16:47 < Not-002> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo b699d55 - added debug() method for NODE_DEBUG=mc-proto
16:47 < Not-002> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo 936ba58 - added debug output for read/written packet ids
16:48 < Not-002> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo e176938 - Protocol version updated to 1.5.1
16:48 < Not-002> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 1015a97 - Merge pull request #50 from onddo/packetid-3e-3f-fix Fixed parsing package IDs 0x3e and 0x3f
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17:13 < Not-002> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/k54zBQ
17:13 < Not-002> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 bb1918d - Release 0.8.0
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21:54 < SupaYoshi|Switch> whhi is storm2x around?
21:54 < SupaYoshi|Switch> mhm probally not
21:58 <+ammar2> SupaYoshi|Switch: if you have a question, you should just ask it
21:58 < SupaYoshi|Switch> Ah okay
21:58 < SupaYoshi|Switch> well I am using mark2, thanks to you guys :3
21:58 < SupaYoshi|Switch> its awesome of course ;) However I have some questions relating to the java flags.
21:58 < SupaYoshi|Switch> Why so many?
21:58 < SupaYoshi|Switch> http://www.spigotmc.org/threads/performance-tweaking-and-optimisation-server-settings.1483/
21:58 < SupaYoshi|Switch> See my mark2 properties
22:04 <+ammar2> SupaYoshi|Switch: huh? it only has max heap size normally
22:05 < SupaYoshi|Switch> Well i got this one default, didnt edit anything.
22:05 < SupaYoshi|Switch> honest
22:06 < SupaYoshi|Switch> oh wait
22:06 < SupaYoshi|Switch> they are #
22:06 <+ammar2> yup, those would be comments.
22:06 < SupaYoshi|Switch> yep.
22:10 < SupaYoshi|Switch> Can you actually connect IRC to your mc chat just with mark2?
22:10 < SupaYoshi|Switch> without needing a plugin?
22:38 < edk> I'm here
22:38 < edk> SupaYoshi|Switch, yes
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22:39 < edk> SupaYoshi|Switch, mark2's IRC stuff parses your server output and relays to IRC using that
22:43 < edk> SupaYoshi|Switch, note that #mark2 exists, and would avoid clogging this channel. anyone who can help you with mark2 is probably in there.
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22:50 < SupaYoshi> d
22:50 < SupaYoshi> is it laggy?
22:50 < SupaYoshi> *can the IRC integration cause lag?
22:53 < edk> no.
22:54 < SupaYoshi> sec. thnx edk
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--- Day changed dim. avril 07 2013
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10:26 < dechiketeur> hello
10:27 < dechiketeur> how to do a "real" mine ?
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12:29 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1948 12 files : Added some code comments all over. 
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15:48 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1949 2 files : Cleaned up and commented Noise and MapGenerator classes. 
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19:05 < toqueteos> on http://wiki.vg/Protocol_Encryption#Key_Exchange the sentence " The key, when packed into a 0xFD packet, is in ASN.1 format as defined by x.509." means this thing (http://golang.org/pkg/crypto/x509/#MarshalPKCS1PrivateKey) would work? they don't mention DER
19:08 < toqueteos> p.d: hi there! too long message, forgot to say hi :/
19:08 <+ammar2> toqueteos: yeah that should be fine
19:09 < toqueteos> thank god, thank you ammar2
19:09 < toqueteos> i love this language more and more every day
19:09 < toqueteos> gotta test it!
19:09 <+ammar2> writing something mc related in go?
19:09 <+ammar2> sounds interesting
19:09 < toqueteos> yes, smp moddable server
19:09 < SinZ> not the first
19:09 < SinZ> and not the last
19:09 < SinZ> (smp moddable server)
19:09 < toqueteos> yes, and yes
19:10 < toqueteos> PartyCraft was nice but i'm not c# fan..
19:10 < SinZ> PartyCraft was the implemation of Craft.Net
19:10 < toqueteos> yes, both by same author
19:10 < SinZ> Craft.Net is dodgy to use anyway
19:11 < SinZ> he constantly does a major revamp that breaks all existing projects
19:12 < toqueteos> i've talked with him a couple of times on irc didn't follow so much his project
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19:14 < toqueteos> one thing more
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19:15 < toqueteos> on http://wiki.vg/Protocol_Encryption#Overview the text "session.minecraft.net" should be a link to http://wiki.vg/Session
19:15 < toqueteos> just a suggestion
19:15 <+ammar2> feel free to add it in yourself :)
19:15 <+ammar2> its an open wiki
19:17 < toqueteos> time to finally make an account on that wonderful wiki
19:26 < toqueteos> ammar2: are there any other wiki pages about protocol encryption?
19:31 < SinZ> only Session and Protocol_Encryption
19:31 < SinZ> oh, and http://wiki.vg/Protocol_FAQ
19:34 < toqueteos> too much crypto for me.. not used to it there's pkcs and pkcs1 in go's std library about x509
19:35 < toqueteos> gotta try with MarshalPKIXPublicKey and, hopefully it'll work, if not.. goto go's mailing list
19:36 < toqueteos> pkcs1 and pkix*
19:38 < toqueteos> thanks to you SinZ too
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21:02 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 pushed 8 commits to master [+0/-0/±9] http://git.io/_38mYg
21:02 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo 353f156 - fix buffer length checking bug in readSlot()
21:02 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo 086d47b - errors printing in readEntityMetadata() improved
21:02 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo 34e06bd - added entity metadata debugging message
21:02 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo a9afd32 - fixed C2 calculation bug (fixes #35)
21:02 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo bcef115 - debug message printing when you are trying to connect to an online server without credentials
21:02 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo ab0237e - "hash" varible moved inside joinServerRequest function
21:03 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo cf6fae5 - bugfix: debug undefined in inde.js
21:03 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 7ec4cfc - Merge pull request #52 from onddo/some-proto-fixes Some Minecraft Protocol fixes
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21:13 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/N7ZUWQ
21:13 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 ba768db - Release 0.8.1
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10:01 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1950 3 files : Added IMapGenerator and IMapGeneratorGuiProvider interfaces 
10:01 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1951 17 files : Updated copyright notices in ConfigGUI to 2013 
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10:23 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1952 2 files : Extending IMapGenerator a bit 
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16:02 < roblabla> hello
16:04 < roblabla> Can anyone help me out with scoreboards packet ? Whenever I try to use them in my custom server, it make the notchian client crash.
16:26 < roblabla> and nevermind, I figured it out. Finally.
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17:07 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/v6OvxQ
17:07 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] roblabla 6c945b6 - Fix packet 0xce, "create" should be a byte. Renamed "create" to "action", and made it a byte.  According to wiki.vg, 0 is create, 1 to remove, and 2 to update.
17:07 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 d236604 - Merge pull request #53 from roblabla/patch-1 Fix packet 0xce, "create" should be a byte.
17:09 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/7zcQlg
17:09 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 7a5bcf0 - Release 0.9.0
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03:36 < AlphaBlend> Jailout20001: Do it, I dare you
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03:37 < AlphaBlend> oh dang
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21:32 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1953 2 files : Tweaking and documenting IMapGenerator related interfaces. 
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23:57 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1954 12 files : Moved all map generation related files to a new /fCraft/MapGeneration/ directory 
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00:10 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1955 6 files : Additional refinements and documentation of map generation interfaces. 
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00:29 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1956 4 files : Began moving existing MapGenerator/MapGeneratorArgs classes over to new IMapGenerator structure. 
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13:25 < dav1d> clonejo: http://i.imgur.com/5jzbbhX.jpg m(
13:39 < TkTech> That's some wicked account spam.
13:40 < TkTech> kev009: Can you plop the reCAPTCHA extension on the wiki?
13:42 < TkTech> kev009: And run the maintenance/removeUnusedAccounts.php script to slaughter those 500+ spam accounts
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14:22 <+clonejo> dav1d: so what?
14:30 < jast> in my experience, reCAPTCHA isn't all that effective
14:34 < edk> recaptcha + email confirmation might work
14:35 < jast> I had precisely that in a forum I helped run
14:35 < jast> we got about successful 300 registrations per day despite that
14:35 < jast> spammer registrations at that
14:35 < edk> i don't suppose they helpfully all registered from the same domain?
14:35 < jast> I think I may have put words the wrong order in
14:36 < jast> sadly not
14:36 < edk> hmm.
14:36 < jast> consulting a bunch of blacklisting databases helped, though
14:36 < edk> on a project this size, requiring admin approval for new accounts might work
14:36 < jast> require people to show up on IRC and ask for an account :)
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17:21 < Not-001> [mineflayer] superjoe30 pushed 3 commits to master [+0/-0/±4] http://git.io/_Q8lKQ
17:21 < Not-001> [mineflayer] zuazo 2b5487f - Exception fix: AssertionError at physics.js:246:12
17:21 < Not-001> [mineflayer] zuazo cc3eae1 - Exception fix: Trying to access beyond buffer length at blocks.js:132:31
17:21 < Not-001> [mineflayer] superjoe30 17a97c3 - Merge pull request #148 from onddo/some-exceptions-fix Some exceptions fixed
17:23 < Not-001> [mineflayer] superjoe30 pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/g_s8XQ
17:23 < Not-001> [mineflayer] superjoe30 e634295 - update minecraft-protocol version to 0.9.0
17:24 < superjoe> I think mineflayer is back in business thanks to a bunch of great work by zuazo!
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17:30 < Not-001> [mineflayer] superjoe30 pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±3] http://git.io/gNvcVQ
17:30 < Not-001> [mineflayer] superjoe30 2c4f798 - update README
17:30 < Not-001> [mineflayer] superjoe30 5df354b - Release 0.1.0
17:30 < superjoe> rom1504, ^^
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17:55 < Not-001> [mcserve] superjoe30 pushed 2 commits [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/XHUO7g
17:55 < Not-001> [mcserve] superjoe30 c08cbc7 - update dependencies; supports 1.5
17:55 < Not-001> [mcserve] superjoe30 8686e6d - Release 0.5.0
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18:23 < TkTech> jast / edk: That is a possibility; there are between 300 and 600+ daily uniques, but the % of that which contributes is very small.
18:24 < TkTech> superjoe: Awesome, 100% on the current stable?
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18:28 < superjoe> TkTech, it looks like it. When I'm not at work I'm going to do some more regression testing
18:33 < superjoe> it's so wonderful to have someone else do your work for you via pull requests
18:34 < TkTech> I know right‽
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19:42 < Calinou> exclarogation ftw
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--- Day changed jeu. avril 11 2013
00:00  * SpaceManiac yawns
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03:37 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1957 18 files : Continuing the transition of MapGenerator to the new system. Added new FlatMapGenerator class. 
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04:24 <+kev009> TkTech: there is a custom captcha, I think it's human farmed out
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08:23 < pbunny> i am implementing a multithreaded world (separate thread for region)
08:23 < pbunny> sometimes region A needs to access region B (usually adjactent one)
08:23 < pbunny> is this sequence safe? :
08:24 < pbunny> 1) thread A locks region A to do stuff
08:24 < pbunny> 2) thread A needs access to region B
08:24 < pbunny> 3) thread A unlock region A, locks region B
08:24 < pbunny> 4) thread A does stuff with region B
08:24 < pbunny> 5) thread A unlocks region B, locks region A
08:24 < pbunny> 6) ...
08:25 < pbunny> regions contain chunks with blockdata, entities,metaentities and players
08:26 < pbunny> what problems can arise from that (i.e. if region A gets modified while reading region B)?
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09:02 < cathode> i have a better idea:
09:03 < cathode> wait, nvm.
09:21 < ezdiy> pbunny: deadlock, tA locks Tb, Tb locks Ta at the same time.....
09:21 < ezdiy> you want 3) thread A locks region B, unlocks region A to force correct ordering
09:26 < pbunny> ezdiy: no.
09:27 < pbunny> ezdiy: deadlock will occur in your scenario
09:27 < pbunny> ezdiy: in my - tA locks Tb while Tb locks tA and they will both succeed
09:28 < pbunny> cathode: what idea?
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09:28 < jast> why the unlock X/lock Y pairs?
09:29 < pbunny> jast: to prevent deadlock
09:29 < pbunny> so maximum of 1 mutex will be locked by any thread in any time
09:29 < pbunny> still, i'm a bit concerned of what can happen if region A will be modified while thread A is reading something from region B
09:30 < jast> well, all of these locks are strictly finite, right?
09:30 < pbunny> finite?
09:30 < jast> I mean, I don't know what your code actually does with the regions
09:30 < jast> the way I see it, your changes to region B are clearly bounded
09:30 < jast> so if you lock B, it's guaranteed that you'll unlock it again Soon(tm)
09:30 < pbunny> of course
09:30 < jast> I don't see how a deadlock could occur then
09:31 < pbunny> jast: it can't
09:31 < jast> with two mutexes, I mean
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09:31 < pbunny> jast: 1) thread A locks region A 2) thread B locks region B 3) thread A locks region B (freezes) 4) thread B locks region A (freezes)
09:32 < jast> right, makes sense in that case
09:33 < jast> I just have this feeling that the unlock/lock sequence might lead to some kind of race condition
09:33 < jast> depends on what the specific operations are, of course
09:33 < pbunny> reading/writing blocks, changing entity positions, etc
09:33 < ezdiy> pbunny: you're right, it will deadlock in case you screw up unlocking afterwards
09:33 < pbunny> i haven't thought of something dangerous there yet
09:34 < pbunny> ezdiy: i won't screw up unlocking, of course
09:34 < pbunny> still, i imagine hundreds (later - thousands maybe) locking/unlocking done per second
09:34 < pbunny> mutex lock/unlock is fast, right?
09:34 < ezdiy> on single cpu yeah
09:35 < pbunny> on different cpus
09:35 < jast> then no
09:35 < ezdiy> if your threads start pinballing between cpus, well thats different story
09:35 < pbunny> jast: how slow?
09:35 < jast> unless you have hardware-implemented mutexes
09:35 < pbunny> ezdiy: they can't iirc
09:35 < ezdiy> pbunny: linux tries to keep cross-locking threads on same cpu
09:35 < pbunny> when thread is spawned, it won't migrate to another cpu
09:35 < pbunny> well there's 4 cpus now
09:35 < jast> multi-core mutexes require some amount of spinning
09:35 < pbunny> how slow lock/unlock can be?
09:35 < ezdiy> *very*
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09:35 < ezdiy> like 30k a seconds
09:35 < pbunny> ezdiy: in nanoseconds plz
09:36 < ezdiy> 30k/s
09:36 < ezdiy> will burn the machine
09:36 < pbunny> ezdiy: any link about it?
09:36 < ezdiy> nope, just ballpark for my box
09:36 < jast> well they use busy waiting basically
09:37 < ezdiy> pbunny: just try it out
09:37 < ezdiy> pbunny: if you do simple work while locked it should be ok
09:37 < jast> wikipedia lists five algorithms used for implementing cross-core mutexes
09:37 < ezdiy> if you do massive memory access
09:37 < pbunny> well if there will be 100 thread, that means about 25 threads / CPU
09:37 < ezdiy> it will suck
09:37 < ezdiy> simple as that
09:37 < pbunny> so mostly locking/unlocking will be fast, right?
09:37 < ezdiy> pbunny: just try it
09:37 < ezdiy> it depends on scenario
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09:37 < pbunny> ezdiy: i will try it when i implement it
09:37 < jast> what really eats your CPU is freezing while waiting for a lock
09:37 < ezdiy> jast: yup, context switches
09:37 < ezdiy> and cache bouncing
09:38 < ezdiy> thats why its 30-50k range
09:38 < jast> it's a spinloop, basically
09:38 < jast> i.e. while (lock still taken) {}
09:38 < jast> bam, full core usage
09:38 < pbunny> jast: i'm fine with that
09:38 < ezdiy> jast: mutexes are more akin to spin-until-context switch :)
09:38 < pbunny> jast: hmm, wait.
09:38 < jast> well yeah, of course there are context switches
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09:38 < pbunny> jast: what if there's several threads on cpu core and one is locking?
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09:39 < ezdiy> pbunny: don't worry about it
09:39 < jast> but since the thread now requires a lot of CPU time, it'll get more time allocated to it by the scheduler
09:39 < ezdiy> pbunny: it does not work like that :)
09:39 < jast> that takes away CPU time from the other threads on the same core
09:39 < ezdiy> jast: nah, the task is scheduled back once the lock is released
09:39 < ezdiy> kernels are not *that* stupid
09:39 < ezdiy> unless you use custom userspace spinlocks
09:39 < jast> depends on the implementation of the lock
09:40 < jast> what are you using for locking?
09:40 < pbunny> pthread_mutex_lock
09:40 < ezdiy> then its a futex
09:40 < jast> that's userspace locking afaik
09:40 < ezdiy> spinning-until-cs
09:40 < ezdiy> and scheduled back on release
09:40 < ezdiy> ie 0% cpu usage
09:41 < jast> ah, kernel-accelerated, nice
09:42 < ezdiy> pbunny: btw, you can use lockfree structure for a region
09:42 < ezdiy> pbunny: if you want it to really scale
09:43 < ezdiy> (if its just simple array, atomic ops speed up things mightily at a cost of sub-nanosecond ingame race windows between blocks)
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09:49 < pbunny> ezdiy: what do you mean?
09:49 < jast> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_operation
09:49 < pbunny> btw, i decided to remove regions and just use array of chunks for every thread
09:50 < pbunny> and use a thread pool
09:50 < ezdiy> pbunny: AtomicIntegerArray, in java :)
09:50 < pbunny> ezdiy: java sucks.
09:50 < ezdiy> well, or anything equivalent
09:50 < ezdiy> it exists in every decent language
09:50 < pbunny> ezdiy: atomic in multi-threaded app still requires locking
09:50 < pbunny> so i don't see difference
09:51 < ezdiy> heh
09:51 < ezdiy> nevermind
09:51 < ezdiy> :)
09:51 < ezdiy> (just read the java docs what kind of locking you really need for atomic array ops)
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09:53 < pbunny> i want nothing to do with java
09:56 < pbunny> ezdiy: i prefer updating a block with single operation (assignment)
09:56 < pbunny> not 100 like in java
09:57 < ezdiy> hehe
09:57 < ezdiy> once again
09:57 < ezdiy> you dont need locking for that
09:57 < ezdiy> thats what atomic ops are for
09:57 < pbunny> ezdiy: you can't just write to something thread-safe without locking.
09:58 < pbunny> well you can time threads carefully but that's wrong
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09:59 < ezdiy> pbunny: seriously, you dont need locks to assign, increment, test or increment an array value
10:00 < ezdiy> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linearizability#Primitive_atomic_instructions
10:01 < ezdiy> (lock-free lists and trees can be implemented on top of that)
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10:05 < pbunny> "This mechanism is not sufficient in a multi-processor environment since each CPU can interfere with the process regardless of whether interrupts occur or not."
10:05 < pbunny> thx ezdiy 
10:06 < ezdiy> pbunny: When there are multiple instructions which must be completed without interruption :)
10:06 < ezdiy> (who said there are?)
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10:07 < ezdiy> but you're right that compare-and-swap is not for the faint of the heart (which is why we use fancy java libraries to do that for us :)
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10:08 < pbunny> ezdiy: yeah, and the second solution there is using locking
10:08 < pbunny> you've been most useful
10:09 < pbunny> "retry if the value read in by the compare-and-swap did not match the value we originally read" - true java approach, lol
10:09 < ezdiy> hehe
10:09 < ezdiy> we do that in c++ too
10:09 < ezdiy> whats worse, even linux kernel does it
10:09 < ezdiy> (lock free lru)
10:10 < ezdiy> pbunny: btw, running separate thread for each region and using lockfree queue (such as zeromq) to pass messages between them works too
10:11 < pbunny> ezdiy: passing messages will increase lag
10:11 < ezdiy> how?
10:11 < ezdiy> its just atomic writes
10:11 < ezdiy> and reads
10:11 < ezdiy> *no waiting*
10:11 < ezdiy> on mutexes :)
10:12 < pbunny> ezdiy: everything waits while atomic write is going.
10:12 < pbunny> with mutexes, only related threads wait
10:12 < ezdiy> The compare-and-swap instruction allows any processor to atomically test and modify a memory location, preventing such multiple-processor collisions.
10:13 < ezdiy> thats it
10:13 < ezdiy> others processor go on *unless* they touch the value
10:13 < ezdiy> at the exact same time
10:14 < ezdiy> pbunny: locks are heavyweight and always will be, however not everything can be implemented lock free (ie succession of operations which *must* be done in succession, without other threads interference)
10:14 < ezdiy> depends on what youre trying to do
10:14 < pbunny> ezdiy: good. so every write will stop 25% of my threads
10:14 < pbunny> ( as i have only 4 cores)
10:14 < ezdiy> all threads write to the same location?
10:14 < pbunny> a mutex lock will stop like 1-2 threads
10:15 < ezdiy> pbunny: the instruction does not stop other cpus btw
10:15 < pbunny> ezdiy: i won't have a single write.
10:15 < ezdiy> it compares and swaps
10:15 < ezdiy> :)
10:15 < pbunny> there are like hundreds of writes per second per thread
10:15 < pbunny> atomic write is slower
10:15 < ezdiy> never mind :)
10:15 < ezdiy> just tried to preach proper mt coding practices and failed miserably
10:16 < ezdiy> linux developers got it all wrong
10:16 < ezdiy> and guys at sun too :)
10:16 < jast> ezdiy: some people can't be preached to
10:17 < jast> some people have a different conception of statistics and probability than everyone else
10:17 < jast> if I have many writes, it follows by necessity that all of them will touch the exact same location every time!
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10:23 < pbunny> jast: atomic writes are slower than regular writes.
10:26 < jast> and locks are slower than atomic writes. so let's use locks!
10:27 < ezdiy> pbunny: thats why its used only seldom on things like message queues
10:27 < ezdiy> :)
10:27 < pbunny> "In computer science, compare-and-swap (CAS) is an atomic instruction used in multithreading to achieve synchronization. It compares the contents of a memory location to a given value and, only if they are the same, modifies the contents of that memory location to a given new value."
10:27 < pbunny> so its completely useless for me
10:27 < ezdiy> btw
10:27 < ezdiy> here comes the shocker
10:27 < ezdiy> locks are implemented using
10:27 < ezdiy> guess what
10:27 < ezdiy> CAS!
10:27 < ezdiy> :)
10:27 < pbunny> ok, so?
10:27 < ezdiy> well, naturally its useless to you
10:28 < pbunny> jast: 1 lock + 100 writes is faster than 100 atomic writes
10:28 < ezdiy> so you dont need locks either
10:28 < pbunny> or 1000
10:28 < ezdiy> (sorry but you started :)
10:28 < ezdiy> pbunny: thats probably true
10:28 < ezdiy> if you indeed do lock and 100 writes
10:28 < pbunny> i will write more probably
10:28 < ezdiy> if you do lock, write, unlock
10:28 < ezdiy> then no
10:28 < pbunny> what
10:28 < pbunny> why?
10:29 < ezdiy> lock, write, unlock = atomicwrite
10:29 < pbunny> ezdiy: yeah
10:29 < pbunny> so?
10:29 < pbunny> it will be a single write
10:29 < ezdiy> except atomic op is like zillion times faster
10:29 < pbunny> how so?
10:29 < ezdiy> instead of doing lack/unlock before and after
10:30 < ezdiy> simply put
10:30 < ezdiy> because lock and unlock
10:30 < ezdiy> are CAS in themselves
10:30 < pbunny> yes, so?
10:30 < pbunny> they are done once per iteration
10:30 < pbunny> not for every write
10:30 < ezdiy> CAS, write, CAS
10:30 < ezdiy> or just CAS
10:30 < ezdiy> which one is faster?
10:30 < pbunny> are you a troll?
10:30 < ezdiy> sorry
10:30 < ezdiy> you started
10:30 < pbunny> CAS, write everything, CAS
10:30 < ezdiy> ah
10:30 < pbunny> or CAS, write, CAS, write, CAS, ...
10:30 < ezdiy> i asked
10:31 < ezdiy> 10:24 < ezdiy> if you indeed do lock and 100 writes
10:31 < ezdiy> :)
10:31 < ezdiy> (i know, that makes me the troll now)
10:32 < ezdiy> you'll need lock for that because atomic ops are useless for things which must be done in succession
10:32 < ezdiy> which is much bigger concern
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22:01 < rom1504> superjoe: hi, nice that mineflayer is up to date :)
22:01 < superjoe> hi :)
22:01 < rom1504> however... i keep having this problem with callsite taking forever in the npm install
22:01 < rom1504> it takes like 40s before callsite
22:02 < rom1504> then a lot of time, i'm not sure it's going to end
22:02 < rom1504> and if it stop it, it complains about ursa_native if i try to launch it
22:03 < rom1504> oh, it finally did it, something like 3min after, seem i'm not patient enough
22:04 < rom1504> seems strange it should take that much time doing it seems nothing though
22:08 < rom1504> well, everything that worked before seem to work
22:08 < rom1504> (i.e. not crafting)
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22:23 < superjoe> yes I saw that in the issue
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06:09 <+SpaceManiac> In the Berekely vicinity for the weekend, any sights to see?
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14:34 < TkTech> Bah, damn ice storm, slowly running out of things to leech batteries from.
14:41 < Morrolan> Better hook your bike up to a generator, then. ;)
14:46 < TkTech> Bike is buried in a pitch black storage room :/
14:49 < Morrolan> Oh. Where do you live, that there's snow storms which cut you off from the power grid, anyway?
14:57 < TkTech> Peterborough. This isn't a snow storm, it's an ice storm.
14:57 < TkTech> Snow storms don't do that much to a Canadian city short of something insane :)
15:01 < TkTech> This is past when these storms normally happen, so people have summer tires on, salt+sand contracts are over, and such
15:01 < TkTech> But a bad ice storm can be much worse (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Ice_Storm_of_1998)
15:02 < dav1d> lol
15:02 < dav1d> wikipedia shows me that in the mobile version
15:02 < dav1d> nvm
15:02 < dav1d> it's a mobile link
15:05 < TkTech> Sorry, I'm on a phone, my UPS died two hours ago
15:05 < eddyb> :(
15:05 < dav1d> TkTech: :O
15:05 < dav1d> never had such a storm
15:06 < eddyb> TkTech: how long is it bound to keep going like that?
15:06 < eddyb> just hours or can it go for days?
15:06 < TkTech> This is pretty much over now, it's bumped up just above 0 so it's just rain, but it'll get worse if it continues into the night and starts freezing again.
15:07 < TkTech> The duration isn't the problem, it destroys trees and above ground infrastructure
15:07 < eddyb> it's like hail?
15:07 < TkTech> The power can be out for 10 minutes or in the absolute worst cases over a month.
15:07 < TkTech> Depends on how much has to be fixed/rebuilt
15:08 < eddyb> one minute everything is fine, the next hell breaks loose
15:08 < TkTech> Not really, it doesn't freeze until it touches something
15:08 < TkTech> Which is why it damages power lines
15:09 < dav1d> canada lol
15:09 < dav1d> poor guys!
15:09 < eddyb> well, I hope you get in the clear soon and it's not too much of a mess to deal with :/
15:10 <+ammar2> TkTech: how long does your ups run?
15:10 < TkTech> Thanks :)
15:11 < TkTech> When just running the router and DCIS modem hours
15:11 < TkTech> With a 90watt laptop not very long, around 30 minutes
15:11 < eddyb> dav1d: yeah, here it's spring, 23°C inside with no heating and open windows, and outside I can hear birds singing and there's a cherry tree just outside by block and it's blossomed
15:12 < dav1d> yeah same here
15:12 < dav1d> well, yesterday
15:12 < dav1d> vienna!
15:12 <+ammar2> nice place vienna, spent around a week or so there on vacation
15:13 < eddyb> TkTech: that sounds like what my laptop battery would last if I didn't use sleep to save it
15:13 < dav1d> ammar2: you're german?
15:13 <+ammar2> dav1d: nope
15:13 < dav1d> ah
15:13 < dav1d> so many of this channel are german, but can't remember who actually is german ...
15:14 < dav1d> yeah moved to vienna for studies, so far it's a really cool city
15:14 <+ammar2> aah, my brother actually studied there too
15:14 <+ammar2> part of the astromundus program
15:15 < TkTech> How affordable is it for a student?
15:16 <+ammar2> my brother was on a 50% scholarship or so, so I can't say for certain
15:17 < TkTech> Lucky, most of you get college/university so much cheaper than in North America
15:17 < dav1d> vienne is relativly cheap
15:19 < dav1d> 150€ for a student public transport ticket (if you're not a austrian citizen) and you pay 17,50€/semester for the university
15:19 < dav1d> you can get a room from 280€ to unlimited, but for ~330€ you can get a nice room
15:22 < TkTech> That character is a block, supposed to be the euro sign?
15:22 < dav1d> yeah
15:22 < dav1d> utf-8 with latin-1 as fallback!
15:24 < eddyb> TkTech: http://starlogs.net/#mcdevs/Burger
15:24 < eddyb> I hope you can load that on your phone
15:25 < TkTech> Surprisingly, yes
15:25 < TkTech> Hey, power!
15:26 < TkTech> ...and it's gone.
15:26 < eddyb> (^_^) :D
15:26 < eddyb> :(
15:28 < dav1d> eddyb: lol
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16:36 < toqueteos> hi there guys, i've been struggling to get http://wiki.vg/Protocol_Encryption#Client this working but I always get NO as response.. any suggestions?
16:37 < roblabla> your sessionID or username is probably wrong
16:38 < toqueteos> oh, sorry it's the server section, not the client's one
16:38 < toqueteos> it has to be the serverId part, i think
16:38 < toqueteos> because i verified the encrypted token received
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16:42 < toqueteos> my sha1-javaish function works as expected, encrypted token sent is ok, username ok.. hmm
16:47 < toqueteos> here's the sha1 function, is anyone ok if I add it to the examples section? http://play.golang.org/p/UY1ki55CPt
16:47 < toqueteos> everyone*
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17:14 < jast> it's "complement", not "compliment" :P
17:17 < toqueteos> lol, you are right
17:17 < toqueteos> thanks jast, will fix it right now
17:22 < toqueteos> another question: why isn't https://minecraft.net/haspaid.jsp?user=<username> used to check if a player has premium version or not?
17:23 < jast> used by what?
17:23 < toqueteos> servers with online-mode=true
17:23 < jast> why should it?
17:23 < jast> the login server knows it anyway
17:23 < toqueteos> simpler approach
17:24 < conehead> Because that still doesn't establish that the player is who they say they are
17:24 < toqueteos> i could use it for my server but i want to use the standar sha-1 weird hash thingy
17:24 < toqueteos> because you verify the token sent before you compute the sha-1 hash
17:26 < toqueteos> that sha-1 hash doesn't say if the player is who he says he is
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17:48 < toqueteos> yay! i got it working
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18:13 < TkTech> Bleh, my UPS is more reliable than my teleco, untested generator failed so now 115000 people have no power, no Internet, and the cell network is piss slow.
18:14 < roblabla> that makes many angry people...
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18:19 < TkTech> Indeed. No longer a quick fix, lines need to be rebuilt. http://twitter.com/banjomommy/status/322732027784863744/photo/1
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20:05 < SL37> Hey can anyone shed some light on Encryption Key Response 0xFC?
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20:05 < SL37> I am reading some stuff on mc.kev009.com about Minecrafts network protocol and am having some trouble parsing it.
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20:07 < SL37> It states it should consist of a string + short + byte array + short + byte array but they state the total size is 7 + string + array sizes
20:07 < SL37> Which I don't see how a byte + short + short = 7?
20:07 < roblabla> eh ?
20:07 < roblabla> 0xFC doesn't contain strings ?
20:08 < roblabla> it's Short + Byte Array + Short + Byte Array
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20:08 < SL37> Ah crap... I am reading 0xFD.
20:09 < SL37> Wow I originally coded it as that and then I accidently flipped to 0xFD.
20:09 < SL37> But while I am at is how to they figure 0xFD is 7 bytes +?
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20:19 < roblabla> SL37: 1 byte for the packet id + 2 bytes for the length of string + 2 bytes for length of key + 2 bytes for length of token
20:20 < roblabla> Remember, the string always sends a short with it's length. 
20:22 < SL37> Ah that I didn't know.
20:23 < SL37> Which would really help me in attempting to parse this string haha.
20:23 < roblabla> You should read about the default types
20:23 < roblabla> It really helps
20:24 < SL37> I did go over it but skipped over string. So yeah that was an apparent mistake.
20:24 < roblabla> yup ^^
20:26 < SL37> Why was the server check string in little endian where everything else is in big endian if you happen to know that?
20:26 < SL37> Server List Ping to be more clear
20:27 < roblabla> I believe to make it easier for websites to parse ? I dunno.
20:27 < roblabla> Everything in java is in big-endian normally
20:28 < roblabla> Wait what ?
20:28 < roblabla> 0xFF always sends strings in big endian if that's what you're talking about
20:30 < SL37> Ah that may be why. And it was sending 0xFE
20:30  * roblabla is confusled
20:30 < roblabla> are you coding a client or a server ?
20:30 < roblabla> 0xFE doesn't contain any string.
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20:31 < SL37> 0xFE sends a string.
20:31 < roblabla> no
20:31 < SL37> Gah 0xFF sorry
20:31 < roblabla> then yes, it does
20:31 < roblabla> and it sends a big-endian UCS string
20:31 < SL37> My code is real messy right now as I get this all working so I am all over the place.
20:32 < roblabla> bbl
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20:33 < SL37> Ah ok yup I noticed that my buffer is little endian as I pass a string into it being converted to little endian. Which is like a double negative.
20:34 < SL37> But there is a typo then on the site.
20:34 < SL37> "After the first 3 bytes, the packet is a little-endian UCS-2 string." As stated on the Server_List_Ping page.
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21:13 < SL37> @roblabla Yeah I noticed I was confused because there was a typo on the site. On the Server_List_Ping page it states that it is a little-endian UCS-2 string.
21:14 < roblabla> Hmm
21:26 < pbunny> hi.
21:26 < pbunny> in Client Settings (0xCC) packet, there is "View distance byte 0 0-3 for 'far', 'normal', 'short', 'tiny'. "
21:27 < pbunny> what are exact values (radius of chunks?) of these 'far', 'normal', 'short', 'tiny' ?
21:27 < dav1d> 3,5,7,10?
21:27 < dav1d> but only guesses
21:28 < pbunny> 10 means player can see 10 chunks away?
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21:37 < SL37> What is the KeySpec of the servers key?
21:37 <+ammar2> well, the view distance is represented by the number of chunks away from the one the player is standing on
21:37 <+ammar2> check the mc wiki, they usually have info on this sorta stuff
21:39 < SL37> Hmm they talk about making a SharedSecret  which I am a little confused about but got working. But then it shows "encrypts it with the server's public key (PKCS#1 v1.5 padded)" but I assume that means the cipher type.
22:15 < dav1d> SL37: you want server or client side?
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22:16 < dav1d> SL37: https://gist.github.com/Dav1dde/3900517 helps maybe
22:17 < SL37> This is the client side. Basically trying to figure out how to generate the client encryption key which I think I have. But I am having problems converting the server key.
22:18 < dav1d> then the gist is for you
22:19 < SL37> It looks right that I am parsing the server message correctly but I get a key size of 162 which doesn't make sense.
22:19 < dav1d> then you parse the packet wrong
22:22 < SL37> Ah I think where I am off is that it is an RSA key.
22:23 < SL37> So now I am more confused because does the server use an RSA key where the client uses an AES key?
22:24 < SL37>  client will generate a 16-byte shared secret, to be used with the AES/CFB8 stream cipher
22:25 < SL37> Because what I generate from that is a SecretKeySpec is used with AES, also it states that it is an AES stream... which I assume RSA wouldn't be using.
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22:29 < dav1d> SL37: it's a safe key exchange
22:29 < dav1d> RSA → exchange AES key → AES
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22:40 < SL37> Gah, there we go looks like it is working.
22:41 < SL37> The server isn't kicking me on response. Just need to enable encryption on my stream and send the 0 payload. Thanks.
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--- Day changed sam. avril 13 2013
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01:02 < SL37> Hey what is the proper java cipher information when ciphering the 0xFC packet?
01:03 < SL37> I have so far "RSA/../PKCS1Padding" and I am using "AES/CFB8/NoPadding" for sending my login packet but it is rejecting my login packet.
01:05 < SL37> I assume I am either not encrypting properly when sending my AES key causing it to decipher incorrectly which I assume is wrong. Or I am ciphering my AES traffic wrong which I think I am doing right.
01:12 < SL37> Ok I am sending "RSA/ECB..." which I am getting a packet back. Need to find out why my login request 0xCD isn't going through. I am using "AES/CFB8/NoPadding" which looks right.
01:13 < roblabla> I *think* you need to pad
01:13 < roblabla> let me take a look at my code
01:14 < roblabla> wait, SL37, you making a client or a server ?
01:18 < dav1d> you need padding read the stuff we link you
01:18 < roblabla> aes128-cbf8 with sharedSecret both as key and IV
01:19 < roblabla> and you need to pad using PKCS1
01:20 < dav1d> use sadimusis mcp3 proxy to debug the sequence
01:22 < roblabla> dav1d: link ?
01:22 < roblabla> I can't find it o_O
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01:25 < dav1d> Dunno, search git hub, I am on phone
01:29 < roblabla> Kay
01:32 < SL37> And it is a client.
01:32 < SL37> "AES/CFB8/PKCS1Padding" ?
01:32 < roblabla> Looks good
01:37 <+ammar2> PKCS1Padding is part of the RSA bit, not sure why you're linking it with AES
01:37 < SL37> For sending packets after the auth.
01:37 < SL37> I am sending my 0xcd packet.
01:39 < dav1d> o.O
01:39 < SL37> From what i read i generate an aes key and encrypt it with the rsa key and send that back with 0xfc packet. Which works because i get a blank 0xfc packet back.
01:39 < dav1d> Aes has no padding
01:40 < roblabla> oh derp
01:40 < dav1d> and a blocksize of 8bit (this specific AES)
01:40 < roblabla> I goofed
01:40 < dav1d> AES128CFB8
01:40 < SL37> Yea I thought not because when I was reading regular MC traffic I noticed it was only 2 bytes long.
01:40 < dav1d> a padding would ruin it, since you get a constant stream you can't tell to wait for N bytes to start decrypting
01:41 < SL37> Yeah I have a 128 bit key and my cipher is "AES/CFB8/NoPadding"
01:41 < roblabla> SL37: what do you use as key and IV ?
01:41 < dav1d> rsa padding is: RSA_PKCS1_PADDING
01:41 < dav1d> wat?
01:41 < dav1d> AES CFB8 can't have a padding
01:42 < dav1d> also rsa != aes
01:42 < SL37> "RSA/ECB/PKCS1Padding" is my cipher for my 0xfc packet
01:42 < dav1d> rsa is used to exchange the AES key (which is the IV at the same time)
01:42 < roblabla> SL37: what language are you using ? 
01:43 < SL37> Java.
01:43 < dav1d> easy, if you can understand the packet, function doesn't error, you have most likely the correect
01:43 < SL37> And yeah I know.
01:43 < dav1d> also ECB reads wrong, but whatever I am not sure
01:43 < dav1d> also read the wiki, I am pretty sure there are examples
01:44 < SL37> I read the RSA key and generate an AES key on the client. I then encrypt my AES key with RSA and the verify key. I send both back.
01:44 < dav1d> lol
01:44 < dav1d> no Java example
01:44 < dav1d> but C++, C#, D
01:44 < SL37> Which works and the server gives me back the 0xFC packet with the blanks meaning that went well.
01:44 < dav1d> SL37: so you read the stuff someone links you?
01:45 < dav1d> so where is the problem...
01:45 < roblabla> no Java example for a protocol originally implemented in java...
01:45 < SL37> Also they aren't examples for this I don't think. They are for authing with MC.net
01:45 < dav1d> roblabla: use mcp
01:45 < SL37> And I understand C# and C++ fluently.
01:45 < dav1d> SL37: wrong
01:45 < roblabla> dav1d: decompiling minecraft takes like a day with my laptop...
01:45 < SL37> Where am I wrong?
01:45 < dav1d> there are 5 examples, and I linked you a guide on how to do it
01:46 < dav1d> roblabla: isn't that bad
01:46 < SL37> http://mc.kev009.com/Protocol_Encryption is where I am now.
01:46 < dav1d> performance increased quite a lot
01:46 < SL37> And there I see 3.
01:46 < dav1d> SL37: I see 5 and I linked you one of these
01:46 < SL37> Examples of generating Java-style hex digests: 
01:46 < dav1d> now scroll 1cm further down
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01:46 < SL37> Ah I see.
01:47 < dav1d> SL37: also wiki.vg
01:48 < dav1d> SL37: also if you understand that code fluently: https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/brala/network/connection.d
01:48 < dav1d> have fun, I am going to sleep
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01:53 < SL37> Huh yeah it doesn't seem to make any sense. From that connection.d I am following the same steps.
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02:24 <+md_5> <SL37> "AES/CFB8/PKCS1Padding" ?
02:24 <+md_5> NoPadding
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02:36 < SL37> What is IV?
02:36 < SL37> So I am thinking I am missing something here.
02:37 <+ammar2> initalization vector
02:38 < SL37> Once I get 0xFD (Enc Key Req) then I respond with 0xFC then the server responds with an empty 0xFC. 
02:39 < SL37> That seems to be working. Is the next step not to send an 0xCD (Client Status) w/ 0?
02:39 < SL37> I see there is something about a second 0xFC but I don't see any documentation further explaining this 0xFC.
02:40 < SL37> "After decrypting the shared secret in the second 0xFC"
02:41 < SL37> But I also packet sniffed vanilla MC client and it appeared that I should be doing everything correctly.
02:45 < Ghoul_> Hey guys
02:45 < Ghoul_> I was wondering who else gets pissed off by the fact minecraft packets don't have a length descriptor at the front of them
02:46 <+ammar2> SL37: yeah, once you receive the empty FC from the server you enable encryption and continue as you would normally
02:47 < Ghoul_> I recently tried to write a server using boost::asio
02:47 < Ghoul_> w/ 8 threads and fully async callbacks
02:47 < Ghoul_> lawd, I had to parse the packets for length to ensure they had fully arrived _and then_ I had to parse them for their actual data
02:47 < Ghoul_> ff
02:48 <+ammar2> welcome to minecraft development
02:48 < Ghoul_> lol
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02:48 < Ghoul_> I guess thread per socket is probably the best way to handle minecraft async
02:48 < Ghoul_> since then you can just use blocking reads
02:49 <+ammar2> nah, you can make non blocking io work too, a couple of projects here do it already
02:50 < Ghoul_> Well
02:50 < Ghoul_> Examples?
02:51 < Ghoul_> Because I always had the issue of trying to parse the packet lengths to know how much more to receive before calling the async handler was really expensive (and tiresome)
02:52 <+ammar2> bravo comes to mind https://github.com/bravoserver/bravo
02:52 <+ammar2> its high level, python, uses twisted
02:53 <+ammar2> not sure if you'll get much useful info out of it
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04:18 < SL37> In java what keyspec would I be using to generate a key from a recieved servers RSA key? X509EncodedKeySpec?
04:21 <+md_5> SecretKeySpec("aes")
04:21 <+md_5> iirc
04:22 < SL37> From an RSA key?
04:23 < SL37> I mean I have the byte data from the data stream that is to represent an rsa key.
04:23 < SL37> I used an X509EncodedKeySpec(byteRSAarray)
04:24 <+md_5>       KeyFactory keyfactory = KeyFactory.getInstance("RSA");
04:24 <+md_5> keyfactory.generatePublic(spec)
04:25 < SL37> KeyFactory.getInstance("RSA").generatePublic(new X509EncodedKeySpec(secret)); //Secret is the key array
04:25 < SL37> Is what I have.
04:26 < SL37> Cipher c = Cipher.getInstance("RSA/ECB/PKCS1Padding");
04:26 < SL37> c.init(Cipher.DECRYPT_MODE, rsa_key);
04:27 < SL37> Once I try and do a c.doFinal(enc_aes_key_array) I am getting a bad padding exception.
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04:59 < SL37> I saved an RSA key and an encrypted AES key to a text file. I verified the data from packet sniffing. When reading I verified as well. And both match up perfectly. What I am trying to do is decrypt the enc_aes using the RSA.
04:59 < SL37> Which is giving me the bad padding exception.
05:02 < SL37> The weird part is it is saying is saying Blocktype mismatch: -85 but I don't have a -85 (0xab) in my aes key.
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05:17 < SuperStunts> Hi, anyone know how to install python blessings on centos?
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05:47 <+SpaceManiac> Berkeley is nifty
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11:27 < pbunny> is there a way to disable achievements server-side ?
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11:45 < Calinou> no
11:45 < Calinou> all achievements are client side
12:11 < pbunny> what is the maximum number of chunks i can send in 0x38 (chunk bulk) packet?
12:12 < dav1d> I think it's unlimited (well limited by the type specifieng the number of chunks sent)
12:13 < pbunny> i remember seeing limit of 50 or so somewhere in wiki (values higher will cause client to crash) but can't find it anymore
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14:41 < pbunny> for some weird reason only 0x0 chunk is processed correctly on client when i send 0x38 packet
14:41 < pbunny> chunks with any other positions are ignored 
14:41 < pbunny> any ideas?
14:42 < dav1d> what if you only send one chunk at a time?
14:42 < dav1d> bukkit did that for a long time (maybe still does it)
14:43 < pbunny> dav1d: no difference
14:43 < pbunny> oh, you mean 0x33 ?
14:43 < pbunny> well i got 0x38 working on previous (ugly) version of my server
14:44 < pbunny> dav1d: can you connect to anonymous.lv:1337 and see what's going on?
14:44 < pbunny> it should send a single 1x1 chunk in 0x38 (spawn position is 20x20)
14:45 < pbunny> however client behaves like chunk wasn't received
14:45 < dav1d> nope sorry I can't
14:45 < dav1d> I have nothing set up right now
15:07 < pbunny> ok, i forgot to reverse endianness
15:07 < pbunny> stupid java
16:00 < jast> it's called network byte order... not exclusively a java thing
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16:48 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/H8iFMg
16:48 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo 8760ff5 - in packet 0x66, "shift" must be of type byte instead of boolean
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20:16 < TkTech> https://twitter.com/Dinnerbone/status/323049123664257024
20:19 < eddyb> from #minecraft: you can list and invalidate sessions/tokens
20:20 < eddyb> for example, you can share your account with someone without them being able to know your password, and you can revoke that access at any time
20:20 < roblabla> ._. that's awesome
20:22 < roblabla> eddyb: but can you have multiple valid tokens ?
20:22 < Grum> the idea was to eventually support upto 3
20:22 < eddyb> roblabla: IIRC yeah
20:22 < Grum> the number is kinda pulled from our ass though, we'll do whatever is a comfortable number to handle :)
20:23 < SinZ> so, lastlogin doesnt exist anymore, neat
20:23 < Grum> yeah no more 'oh hai password'
20:23 < eddyb> oh, and you might be able to have multiple copies of minecraft, each with its own username, under one mojang account
20:23 < Grum> yeah we'll end up doing a blizzard-style dropdown if you have multiple accounts
20:23 < Grum> (where you login, then select the account to play with)
20:30 < ShaRose> sweet
20:30 < ShaRose> when I came up with my auth idea I think I was thinking of 3-5 as well :V
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20:32 < TkTech> Grum: Any consideration for "parental controls"?
20:32 < eddyb> oh, heh
20:32 < Grum> TkTech: what sort?
20:33 < TkTech> For example an adult owning the mojang account and kids allowed to have their own under that.
20:33 < TkTech> Simple things for small children, like a "This user cannot play online" checkbox.
20:33 < eddyb> the parent mojang account can be used for all of them. and the parent can invalidate their tokens
20:33 < Grum> hmm nothing like that planned
20:33 < eddyb> if they don't know the password, they just can't play
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20:34 < SinZ> then you have the problem, what happens when the child is old enough to have his/her own mojang account
20:34 < TkTech> Exactly, it lends itself to it nicely, just need to build on it.
20:34 < SinZ> how easy would it be to transfer
20:34 < Grum> euuh not really trivial to do 'right'
20:34 < Grum> also ... they'll just use another launcher? :/
20:34 < TkTech> We're talking young kids here Grum.
20:35 < TkTech> Nothing complex necessary, just very simple controls.
20:35 < SinZ> the kids still too young to play CoD
20:35 < TkTech> I know many people (and some at work) that play with their kids who are very young.
20:35 < Grum> not really sure what the issue is with online play though
20:36 < SinZ> stay safe online
20:36 < SinZ> they dont know that
20:36 < Grum> 'very young'
20:36 < SinZ> dont know the concept of griefing
20:36 < eddyb> also, minecraft can be addictive :P
20:36 < TkTech> Grum: Co-worker X has two kids who play Minecraft with him and come home on the bus or with mom long before he does.
20:36 < TkTech> Grum: He'd love to let them play whenever they wanted but doesn't let them go online without supervision.
20:37 < ShaRose> TkTech they can just play offline
20:38 < Grum> i guess for that its would be best to have a 'timeslot' per mc-account and have the auth-server simply prevent them from playing online
20:38 < ShaRose> I'm assuming he has software to block access to the internet for third party applications, right?
20:38 < ShaRose> if so there's nothing to worry about
20:38 < Grum> or that indeed
20:38 < Grum> there is far better software for that than what we can provide
20:38 < ShaRose> it'll just say "Can't connect, wanna play online? Ok then, launching"
20:38 < ShaRose> and then they can connect to a lan server they can play on together or something
20:39 < TkTech> But how does that work when one kid shares his world with LAN play?
20:39 < ShaRose> if MC is blocked from internet access it'd share it.. over lan
20:39 < Grum> that is only local?
20:39 < TkTech> But does LAN work with two users from the same account?
20:39 < Grum> it should
20:40 < Grum> you login as a different mc-user
20:40 < ShaRose> well they'd need different names yeah
20:40 < Grum> if they select two different accounts, should just work fine
20:41 < TkTech> Okay, so, WAN is blocked, clients are forced offline.
20:41 < Grum> they have to have been logged in before
20:41 < TkTech> Two kids using previously-logged in launchers (by Dad) want to play on the lan.
20:41 < Grum> should be fine?
20:42 < ShaRose> ^
20:42 < TkTech> Yay
20:43 < Grum> they can just play in offline mode but that still lets lan-work
20:43 < Grum> s/-/ /
20:43 < TkTech> There are going to be lots of little edge cases with this, I think.
20:43 < Grum> not really sure how
20:43 < Grum> if you play offline you just so not get a session from the login-server
20:43 < TkTech> User logs into server, user changes name, user logs back into that same server using another launcher.
20:43 < Grum> so the session server will not let you play anywhere
20:43 < TkTech> Does the sever limit connections by username or by account
20:44 < Grum> it doesnt limit connections at all
20:44 < Grum> active sessionkey, just like it is now, per mc (NOT mojang) account
20:44 < ShaRose> I thought it did limit one user per name though
20:45 < TkTech> It's supposed to, hence why I see a problem.
20:45 < Grum> nah it just remembers the last session id i think
20:45 < Grum> TkTech: what is the 'problem' ?
20:46 < TkTech> Grum: Do I assume correctly that you'll be able to change, create, or delete usernames under this one master account?
20:46 < Grum> wait, lets the the terminology right
20:46 < Grum> what do you consider 'username'
20:46 < Grum> because right not it is: 1 mc account per mojang account
20:46 < TkTech> A username is the name that shows up over your head in Minecraft, the account is the mojang account you logged in with.
20:46 < Grum> it will be 'multiple mc accounts' per mojang account
20:47 < TkTech> So each must be purchased and attached?
20:47 < Grum> yes
20:47 < TkTech> Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh. 
20:47 < SinZ> Also, is login.minecraft.net getting a revamp for the launcher?
20:47 < Grum> yes
20:47 < SinZ> including more error messages?
20:47 < Grum> or rather; we'll be making a new api on it; the current one will remain working but only for 1.5.x
20:47 < Grum> (basically the old launcher)
20:49 < Grum> and you're going to need the new launcher to have any chance of starting the 1.6 and up
20:50 < SinZ> including with the snapshots?
20:50 < Grum> yes
20:51 < Grum> whch is why there are no snapshots
20:51 < Grum> as the launcher is not existing
20:51 < SinZ> it'll be fun to watch the modding community react to the launcher
20:52 < Grum> i guess stuff will adapt and soon it wont be used anymore
20:52 < Grum> best fun is, we can break everything for people not using our launcher ... as we can push out changes whenever we please
20:53 < Grum> you'll get the update when you run the launcher for the second time at the worst-worst-case
20:55 < Grum> the best solution for modders is actually sit between the launcher and the start of mc
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20:58 < SinZ> is the launcher going to have modding support in it? or is that the job for the plugin API when it is usable
20:58 < Grum> no support at all
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21:15 < ShaRose> Grum on that note, will you be letting the forge guys know what the MC side changes will be, since they do a relaunch?
21:17 < ShaRose> in other news, once again I try and see if there are any new headsets out that I might want to use to replace my G930
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21:50 < Grum> ShaRose: they already know for some time
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22:05 < SL37> How do I convert the servers RSA key (that was received in ASN1 format) from packet 0xFD back into an RSA key?
22:05 < SL37> I am working in java.
22:06 < SL37> Key rsa_key = KeyFactory.getInstance("RSA").generatePublic(new X509EncodedKeySpec(asn1_key_byte_arr));
22:06 < SL37> That is what I have and doesn't seem to be working.
22:09 < Grum> look at the mc code? :P
22:10 < SinZ> Grum: this isn't #minecraftforge where all answers are look at mc code <3
22:13 < Grum> SL37:
22:13 < Grum>             final EncodedKeySpec keySpec = new X509EncodedKeySpec(keyData);
22:13 < Grum>             final KeyFactory keyFactory = KeyFactory.getInstance(ASYMMETRIC_ALGORITHM);
22:13 < Grum>             return keyFactory.generatePublic(keySpec);
22:13 < SL37> Yeah I was thinking of looking at the MC code. I saw there was a semi nice program to even mostly de-obfuscate. I checked out what I could find online since decompiling will take a little time and I assume the de-obfuscate will also.
22:13 < Grum> public static final String ASYMMETRIC_ALGORITHM = "RSA";
22:14 < Grum> so yeah that should be working
22:14 < Grum> a little time being ~15 mins setup and 1 minute running 
22:14 < Grum> 1 minute for the first one if you have done it before :p
22:14 < edk> deobfuscation isn't perfect, obviously
22:14 < Grum> you must be mangling the bytedata?
22:15 < SL37> No I haven't. Nor am I aware of what the obfuscated code is. So I cant even pull out say class ssn.class or something.
22:15 < Grum> anyhow, i just pasted how we do it in minecraft itself :)
22:15 < Grum> which looks rather similar to what you do
22:15 < SL37> I don't think so. I dumped both an RSA and an enc_aes key.
22:16 < Grum> erm
22:16 < Grum> you do realize i actually have access? and i just literally pasted it from our sourcebase right? :)
22:16 < SL37> From a vanilla client connection to a vanilla server.
22:16 < SL37> Since in my client I am getting my auth working. The server returns an fc packet with zero payload.
22:17 < edk> SL37, are you saying the AES key is transmitted over the network connection?
22:17 < SL37> But then after that I tried and send my client status packet with a 0 encrypted with my aes key and no go.
22:17 < SL37> And yes, it sends the AES key enc by the servers RSA key in packet FC
22:17 < Grum> with your aes key?
22:17 < Grum> you should crypt it with the public key you get from the server (the RSA one)
22:18 < Grum> that way only the server can read your aes key
22:18 < Grum> which was the whole point of that code :)
22:18 < SL37> Yeah so I made an AES key and sent it enc by the servers RSA key.
22:18 < edk> or someone with a quantum computer, which is not a serious consideration at this point in time
22:18 < SL37> Along with an enc of the verify.
22:18 < edk> so i'm not /quite/ sure why i mentioned it
22:19 < SL37> The server then responded with an empty fc packet.
22:19 < SL37> Which should mean that I properly enc-ed everything since it thinks the verify is good.
22:19 < SL37> But then once I try and send my client status packet I get an instant kick.
22:19 < SL37> Sorry not kick, drop.
22:20 < SL37> "lost connection.:
22:20 < SL37> My cipher for encypting my aes packet is "AES/CFB8/NoPadding" so idk what is up.
22:21 < SL37> I am trying to get back a vanilla client's AES key that was enc-ed by an RSA key which I also dumped. That way I can re-create the same cd packet.
22:22 < Grum> you dumped this key on the serverside right?
22:22 < SL37> In the middle. I ran a packet sniffer.
22:22 < Grum> you need the private part of that RSA key
22:22 < Grum> yeah, you cant
22:22 < SL37> Ah I see then.
22:22 < SL37> That would make sense.
22:23 < SL37> Damn ok so then I think I know what may be up.
22:23 < Grum> yeah you are trrying to play man in the middle, which you cant :p
22:23 < Grum> which was the whole reason why I added this in the first place, so you couldn't do that anymore ;)
22:23 < SL37> I forgot I can only enc with the pub key.
22:24 < ShaRose> technically you can decrypt with the public key: stuff that was encrypted by the private key :P
22:24 < ShaRose> it's a pair and works both ways
22:24 < ShaRose> though you should never do that
22:24 < ShaRose> because it'll potentially leak information about the other
22:24 < SL37> Yeah although it was enc-ed by the pub key.
22:25 < SL37> Hmm then I have no idea what is wrong with my send.
22:25 < SL37> I can enc and dec with the same AES key though no?
22:26 < ShaRose> you are trying to do the thing that the protocol was specifically designed to make impossible (or rather really really hard)
22:26 < Grum> yes, that one is symmetric
22:26 < ShaRose> yes
22:26 < ShaRose> ^
22:26 < Grum> but for someone in the middle there is no way of knowing what the aes key is
22:26 < SL37> No I will be running on my modded client.
22:26 < ShaRose> ^
22:26 < SL37> Which will be creating the aes key.
22:27 < SL37> I was only attempting to dump the keys so then I could try and match the traffic with a vanilla MC.
22:27 < SL37> Since that is out the window I have to hack away at my 0xCD response to see what is up.
22:28 < ShaRose> or alternatively modify the connection handling class to copy and route all information to another connection after it decrypts
22:29 < SL37> Yeah I was hoping not to have to hack through a ton of MC code. But I will give this another try since I have a feeling I am doing something stuoid on my part.
22:29 < Grum> you dont really have much of a choice :p
22:29 < SL37> I am going to try sending the CD packet un encrypted to see if it even looks right.
22:29 < SL37> Since somewhere might be throwing my order around.
22:30 < SL37> Or something idk.
22:34 < SL37> So my unencrypted packet should look like (cd 00) yeah?
22:35 < SL37> Two bytes 0 for spawn.
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22:49 < SL37> Hmm I have my AES key which allows me to encrypt fine. But once I try and make a decrypt cipher it tells me there are parameters missing? What am I doing wrong.
22:49 < SL37> KeyGenerator keyGen = KeyGenerator.getInstance("AES");
22:49 < SL37> 			keyGen.init(128);
22:49 < SL37> 			k = keyGen.generateKey();
22:50 < SL37> k is a SecretKey btw.
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22:54 < SL37> Ah apparently I need the IV I think.
22:57 < SinZ> IV is the key
23:02 < SL37> Oh so should I be sending the IV to the server?
23:02 < SL37> Not my AES?
23:06 < SL37> OH I think I get what is up now.
23:07 < SL37> I have been doing this way out of wack ah cool cool.
23:18 < SL37> So what exactly am I sending back during the FC packet?
23:22 < SL37> I should be sending a 16byte AES key that I generate no?
23:27 < SL37> Ah there we go got it working :)
23:37 < dav1d> graz
23:51 < SinZ> hmm, no Query implementation in C#
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23:56 <+ammar2> dav1d: was that awesomeomium problem fixed?
23:56 <+ammar2> with the choppy animations
23:57 < dav1d> ammar2: it will be in awesomium 1.7.5
23:57 < dav1d> but I think I will drop awesomium
23:57 < dav1d> it is really awesome, but too fat
23:57 < dav1d> also I don't like it that it's closed source
23:57 <+ammar2> yeah, its a pretty heavy dependency
23:58  * SinZ has never heard of awesomium
23:58 < dav1d> SinZ: chromium offscreen rendering helper thingy
23:58 < SinZ> ah
23:58 < dav1d> so you render html to a texture
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00:00 <+ammar2> though I've never been able to figure out how to make pretty GUIs with native applictions :P
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00:22 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1958 2 files : Added more parameter constraint checks to MapGeneratorArgs. 
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00:58 < SL37> How do I send the sha1hash to the joinserver.jsp? Should it be in its raw byte form or do I need to be converting it to a string?
00:59 < SL37> For example say the first value of the key is 21, do I send 21 or do I send "21"
00:59 < dav1d> it's a sha1 hash in hex converted to twos compliment first, iirc
01:00 < SL37> Yeah which is fine. It appears that (byte)val automatically places it in twos.
01:00 < SL37> As well as there is no leading zeros.
01:00 < dav1d> yeah java, lol
01:01 < SL37> I am getting back OK from my joinserver request but my server is still popping up Failed to varify username. So I assume this is a problem with my hash.
01:01 < SL37> md.update(server_id.getBytes("US-ASCII"));
01:01 < SL37> 			md.update(shared_secret);
01:01 < SL37> 			md.update(server_rsa_enc);
01:02 < SL37> sha1hash = md.digest();
01:02 < SL37> So I am pretty sure I am generating the hash correctly.
01:04 <+ammar2> well thats slightly misleading
01:04 <+ammar2> why would you call your sha1 hash object md
01:05 < SL37> No I called my message digest md.
01:05 < SL37> And I am just trying to get things working. My code is atrocious.
01:11 < SL37> And my sha1object that is the byte array is called sha1hash.
01:11 < SL37> Although I could have called my digest sha1hash and then just sent sha1hash.digest();
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03:53 < SL37> What does it mean by "sha1.update(ASCII encoding of the server id string from 0xFD)"
03:53 < SL37> I am confused by the ASCII encoding part.
03:54 < SL37> When I grab the server id I read it in as a character in USC-2 format when I get it from 0xFD
03:54 < SL37> Should I be reading it in ascii format?
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04:00 <+ammar2> SL37: what language were you using again?
04:00 < SL37> Java
04:00 < SL37> When creating my hash it doesn't seem to be working. I assume I am reading or placing the server id into my sha1 incorrectly.
04:01 < SL37> My hash isn't matching up with the servers hash it is creating.
04:02 < zutto> I was wondering, is the http://wiki.vg/Protocol_FAQ page still accurate as of 1.5.x?
04:03 < SL37> Weird, jsut worked. But it mostly fails?
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04:10 < SL37> Hmm seems to be working perfectly now. Idk whats up because I didn't change anything.
04:10 < roblabla> It's magic
04:11 < SL37> Yup it is only working some of the time. Weird so I am reading in the server id incorrectly.
04:22 < SL37> In java how should I be reading in the string. I am having a hard time with this apparently?
04:22 < SL37> I am using a DataInputBuffer
04:23 < SL37> When using in.readChar() it is failing to read it in properly I think since my sha1 is screwing up.
04:26 < SL37> Ah damn ok nope it is my hexdigest method
04:31 < zutto> so.. could someone give me hints what i am missing / failing on, i'm building a console client for minecraft in c#/mono.. and i am sending handshake, the 0xCD packet, and i am receiving the player coordinates (0x0D), and i am re-sending them back to the server with stance & y swapped (as instructed in the wiki), and then i am trying to re-send the packet with increased x&y values (x+1 - y+1), and yet the 
04:31 < zutto> client isnt moving in the server at all
04:31 < zutto> I am able to send messages and stuff just fine, and the client appears in server
04:33 < SinZ> anyone know who made the team800 MC classic client?
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04:51 <+md_5> zutto 1 is too large, send more smaller ones
04:51 < zutto> how small are we talking about? 0.1, 0.01?
04:52 < zutto> cause i started with 0.5 ;l
04:52 <+md_5> 0.1
04:52 < zutto> i'll give it a go
04:52 <+md_5> cant recall what my bot does, but I;m leaving now so cant check
04:55 < zutto> no luck with decreasing the amount it moves :/
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05:02 < zutto> strange thing about this whole problem is that if i intentionally set the values to some random numbers, i get kicked with  "[SEVERE] bot was caught trying to crash the server with an invalid position." message in console
05:03 < zutto> so i would assume nothing is wrong with how i send the packet there
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05:29 < SL37> Can anyone tell me what exactly is the point of the http authentication?
05:30 < zutto> to verify that you have 'legit' client?
05:30 < SL37> If a server is in offline mode does it lose any features?
05:30 < zutto> legit as in you have bought minecraft
05:30 < zutto> no, i dont think so
05:31 < SL37> Alright that is what I figured. And I assume a client then cannot have multiple session ids?
05:31 < zutto> no idea about that
05:32 < SL37> Hmm either way I should be alright.
05:36 < zutto> grh, i am really lost 
05:37 < zutto> been trying to figure this out for few hours now
05:41 < SL37> What are you stuck with?
05:42 < zutto> i'm unable to get my bot to move
05:42 < zutto> https://gist.github.com/anonymous/5381335 <- 
05:43 < SL37> What language?
05:43 < zutto> c#/mono
05:44 < SL37> I'll take a look. I haven't gotten that far yet.
05:44 < zutto> kay
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05:53 < zutto> holy shit
05:53 < zutto> i was packing the packet wrong >_>
05:54 < zutto> and yes, i just spent 5 hours figuring that out.. i was 100% sure it was correct -.-
05:57 < SL37> That is aweful. I just made ice-cream and screwed it up :(
05:58 < SL37> I also spent like 2 days getting this damn server authentication working and realized right after I did it that I really didn't need to do it.
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11:32 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/4Maxhw
11:32 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo 120da4a - packet 0x66 (Click Window): `shift` field renamed to `mode`
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12:25 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/bLbIEQ
12:25 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo 28bb695 - README: added npm version badge
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--- Day changed lun. avril 15 2013
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00:23 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1959 2 files : Documentation improvements in PlayerDB class. 
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01:57 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1960 2 files : Documentation improvements in Trie and PlayerDB classes. 
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06:25 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1961 12 files : API change: Replaced boolean parameters of Server's and PlayerDB's player-finding methods with enum flags (PlayerSearchOptions). 
06:26 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo pushed 3 commits to master [+0/-0/±3] http://git.io/xTQ_TQ
06:26 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] stith d0664f3 - Connect to a server's SRV record if they specify one
06:26 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] stith 8825541 - Only look for SRV records if necessary Vanilla client implementation only looks for SRV records when the server port isn't specified, so let's mirror that behavior.
06:26 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo a48d6dc - Merge pull request #55 from stith/patch-1 Connect to a server's SRV record if they specify one
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07:40 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo pushed 4 commits to master [+0/-0/±6] http://git.io/IasY9g
07:40 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo 664c7e3 - print sent and received packet contents in debug mode
07:40 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo 75d9229 - README: added how to enable debugging output
07:40 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo b98e1b2 - README: added links to the mentioned github users
07:40 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo c6b9d2c - Release 0.10.0
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09:14 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1962 4 files : Improved PlayerSearchOptions support and documentation. 
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10:58 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1963 2 files : Fixed handling of PlayerSearchOptions.ReturnSelfIfNoOthersMatched flag in PlayerDB.FindPlayerInfoOrPrintMatches. Holy crap these names are getting verbose. 
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11:24 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1964 4 files : Minor code cleanup in ModerationCommands, FlatMapGenerator, RealisticMapGenerator, and ZipStorer. 
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11:43 < pbunny> what is the difference between default, flat, or largeBiomes level-type ?
11:43 < SinZ> thats vannila world generation
11:44 < pbunny> what does it mean to client?
11:44 < pbunny> they are sent in login request
11:44 < SinZ> flat doesnt render void fog, and not sure what largeBiomes has
11:46 < pbunny> where did you get that info from?
11:48 < SinZ> flatland worlds dont have void fog, I know from experience
11:49 < jast> flat would be pretty pointless with void fog
11:50 < jast> chances are largeBiomes is not actually different on the client side
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11:51 <+Fador> was that parameter already there when the client generated biomes?
11:55 < pbunny> what is the purpose of sending Difficulty to client?
11:58 < jast> informational, most likely
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16:48 < inkoate> In response to my server's login packet, the client is giving the error "Received string length longer than maximum allowed (1792 > 16)"
16:48 < inkoate> Does anyone know what exactly that means? I don't think I'm sending 1792 bytes to the client in the login packet.
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17:02 < inkoate> Is binary.BigEndian.PutUint32 the best way to convert from int to []byte?
17:02 < inkoate> And why is there not a signed version?
17:02 < inkoate> whoops, wrong window, sorry, ignore.
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17:07 < SL37> It states that I can send an 0xCD packet in response to an 0xFD packet to bypass encryption no?
17:07 < SL37> I am trying to do that and the server forces 'lost connection'
17:08 < SL37> Ah figured it out.
17:12 < SL37> I assume enc cannot be bypassed with online-mode:true
17:12 < SL37> Since it needs the enc to create the username verify hash?
17:12 < pbunny> inkoate: check endianness of string length short
17:13 < pbunny> 1792 is 7 if endianess reversed
17:13 < pbunny> which is probably the real length of string you send
17:13 < inkoate> huh
17:14 < pbunny> $ebuf=openssl_decrypt($buf,'aes-128-cfb8',$secret,true);
17:14 < pbunny> this decrypts the data from server wrong
17:14 < pbunny> number of decrypted bytes is ok, but they are not as they are supposed to be
17:14 < pbunny> and $secret is correct
17:14 < pbunny> any suggestions?
17:15 < inkoate> bam, just that easy. Thank you pbunny 
17:16 < pbunny> np
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18:45 < Grum>  <SL37> I assume enc cannot be bypassed with online-mode:true <-- indeed
18:54 < ezdiy> well
18:54 < ezdiy> assuming the launcher uses http://session.mc.net
18:54 < ezdiy> and not https://
18:54 < ezdiy> its matter of simple /etc/hosts on client side? :)
18:56 < inkoate> Does the client expect chunk data in a 16x16x16 three dimensional array of bytes?
18:59 < ezdiy> inkoate: http://wiki.vg/SMP_Map_Format#Data
19:01 < inkoate> Yeah, I've read that.
19:01 < inkoate> It just says "whole byte per block"
19:02 < inkoate> which doesn't say if its multidimensional arrays or just one long array.
19:02 < ezdiy> Blocks are ordered Y, Z, X, i.e. the 'X' coordinate changes fastest.
19:02 < ezdiy> ie each 16x16x16 is multidim in y,z,x order
19:03 < ezdiy> column is then couple of such cubes one after another
19:04 < ezdiy> inkoate: 'whole byte per block' means just that
19:05 < ezdiy> block type array is 4096 in size and so on
19:05 < inkoate> Yeah, I get that. I'm just wondering about the actual data structure.
19:06 < ezdiy> yeah
19:06 < ezdiy> https://github.com/barneygale/smpmap/blob/master/smpmap.py
19:06 < inkoate> I guess I don't know yet how deflate works, so maybe I need to look at that.
19:06 < ezdiy> i used that to get actual idea
19:06 < ezdiy> deflate is just compression, not actually relevant in grand scheme of things :)
19:07 < ezdiy> and yes, the packet format is braindamaged and horribly inefficient, much like anything mc related :)
19:07 < inkoate> lol, yeah
19:09 < inkoate> ok, yeah, so this stores it in a flat array
19:09 < inkoate> not a multidim
19:09 < inkoate> so the 17th item is actually the first item of the second row.
19:09 < inkoate> it seems.
19:10 < ezdiy> offset 16 yeah :)
19:11 < ezdiy> ie y=0,z=1,x=0
19:12 < inkoate> yeah, exactly.
19:12 < inkoate> ok
19:12 < inkoate> thanks for the link. :)
19:13 < pbunny> wtf
19:13 < pbunny> my skin changed to bear on my server
19:13 < pbunny> O.o
19:13 < dav1d> pedobear?
19:14 < pbunny> yes
19:14 < pbunny> looks like him
19:15 < dav1d> then pay for minecraft so you have your own skin?
19:15 < pbunny> http://dump.bitcheese.net/images/ysoceke/2013-04-15_20.05.16.png
19:15 < pbunny> O.o
19:15 < pbunny> how so?
19:15 < pbunny> is today a pedobear day?
19:15 < Flemmard> i dont think one day could even be a pedobear day
19:15 < ezdiy> dav1d: yeah i do that a lot
19:16 < ezdiy> whenever someone loves to impersonate me on cracked server
19:16 < ezdiy> just change skin to black person with swastikas :)
19:18 < pbunny> well this is my server and its running on localhost
19:18 < pbunny> i coded it
19:18 < pbunny> today, skin is of pedobear for some reason
19:18 < pbunny> so it's a client thingie
19:18 < ezdiy> skin is downloaded by client indeed
19:18 < pbunny> even if i don't do minecraft.net auth?
19:18 < ezdiy> especially if you dont do mc.net auth :)
19:19 < ezdiy> you're wearing skin of whomever's nick youre wearing
19:19 < pbunny> O.o
19:19 < dav1d> pbunny: of course it is
19:19 < pbunny> ezdiy: wow!
19:19 < dav1d> buy minecraft then you can set your own skin
19:19 < pbunny> well nick is Player133
19:20 < dav1d> client fetches it from some amazon node
19:20 < ezdiy> http://mcskinsearch.com/skin/Player133
19:20 < ezdiy> well
19:20 < ezdiy> its a pedobear!
19:20 < ezdiy> :)
19:20 < pbunny> O_O
19:20 < pbunny> well.. its only for me, isn't it?
19:20 < pbunny> the Player133 is sent by client to server on connect, but ignored by server
19:21 < pbunny> since login he will use nickname that is registered on server
19:21 < ezdiy> no sorry cant do
19:21 < ezdiy> one has to admit this kind of drm is brilliant
19:22 < ezdiy> pbunny: only workaround is to force all your players to hack /etc/hosts
19:22 < ezdiy> which you want to do anyway for proper auth
19:22 < ezdiy>  /login in chat is just retarded :)
19:22 < pbunny> ezdiy: when client looks up skins of other players?
19:23 < pbunny> when server sends Spawn Named Entity ?
19:23 < ezdiy> yep
19:23 < pbunny> hmm, so technically somebody can register as Player133 on my server and appear to be pedobear to others?
19:23 < dav1d> you see the exact url when the skin servers are down
19:23 < ezdiy> as long theyre using unmoded client, yes
19:23 < roblabla> There's another workaround...
19:23 < ezdiy> roblabla: hmm?
19:23 < roblabla> Make your clients use a mod
19:23 < ezdiy> yeah
19:24 < ezdiy> yep
19:24 < roblabla> Much easier o_O
19:24 < ezdiy> depends
19:24 < pbunny> i don't see any problems of funny skins running on my server
19:24 < pbunny> :)
19:24 < ezdiy>  /etc/hosts is portable across new mc releases
19:24 < roblabla> erm... yeah... but it's a pain to ask your clients to edit
19:24 < dav1d> ezdiy: windows? tell a windows user to edit his host...
19:24 < roblabla> especially since the majority of minecraft players are kids who have no idea what the hosts file is
19:24 < ezdiy> roblabla: just edit via launcher :)
19:25 < roblabla> dav1d: windows has a hosts file too
19:25 < dav1d> somewhere in system32/config shit
19:25 < dav1d> no one will go there
19:25 < ezdiy> ie launcher can stay the same
19:25 < dav1d> roblabla: tell this a windows user...
19:25 < ezdiy> modding minecraft.jar is pita
19:25 < dav1d> grep for the url and replace it in the jar?
19:25 < roblabla> It's not that bad ...
19:25 < ezdiy> dav1d: yeah, that probably too
19:25 < dav1d> roblabla: for you and me, someone who never even touched windows or system32 gets a big security warning
19:26 < dav1d> also
19:26 < dav1d> pay for the fucking game
19:26 < dav1d> 10$
19:26 < ezdiy> or use fully opensource alternatives
19:26 < ezdiy> if youre die hard gpl hippy
19:26 < dav1d> ^ which don't exist
19:26 < ezdiy> well all are inferior indeed
19:26 < roblabla> They do. They just suck.
19:26 < dav1d> well, no client which ehm is playable
19:26 < dav1d> roblabla: thanks :P
19:27 < pbunny> um, guys
19:27 < pbunny> i have no problem with pedobears running around on my server
19:27 < ezdiy> pbunny: what about nazi niggers? :)
19:27 < dav1d> ezdiy: that's what he gets for not paying
19:27 < dav1d> ezdiy: also this would be kinda funny again
19:27 < ezdiy> pbunny: you should probably implement mc.net auth
19:28 < roblabla> mc.net auth ??? And I wish I could send custom skins to the clients
19:28 < ezdiy> haha
19:28 < ezdiy> there it goes, modded client
19:29 < roblabla> for things like NPCs, it would be so useful
19:29 < ezdiy> btw
19:29 < pbunny> ezdiy: i use my own auth on my server
19:29 < pbunny> two reasons
19:29 < ezdiy> the client could be probably modded
19:29 < ezdiy> using http_proxy env variable
19:29 < dav1d> 1. I don't have minecraft
19:29 < ezdiy> no etc hosts
19:29 < pbunny> 1) faster connect 2) reliability, independence from minecraft.net servers
19:30 < roblabla> bwahaha
19:30 < roblabla> faster connect ?
19:30 < pbunny> i.e. if they shut them down, my server remains
19:30 < roblabla> I kinda doubt that
19:30 < ezdiy> pbunny: sure, those are all legit reasons
19:30 < pbunny> roblabla: yeah, one less request from client and from server
19:30 < ezdiy> except
19:30 < ezdiy> everyone bought into mohjang drm scheme
19:30 < ezdiy> so 
19:30 < ezdiy> suck it up
19:30 < roblabla> Do you use your own mojang-like auth ?
19:30 < pbunny> ?
19:30 < pbunny> roblabla: no
19:30 < roblabla> or do you use something like authme ?
19:30 < pbunny> roblabla: its an in-game auth
19:30 < pbunny> like /login user pass
19:30 < roblabla> then let me tell you something : mojang-style is faster
19:30 < ezdiy> ingame sucks donkey balls
19:30 < pbunny> why?
19:30 < roblabla> because I have to login using /login command
19:31 < roblabla> And that's slower than typing my password and remembering it in a convenient window
19:31 < pbunny> hm
19:31 < roblabla> Thus, your statement is officially invalid.
19:31 < Flemmard> and a typo and everyone sees your pass \o/
19:31 < ezdiy> pbunny: you can implement mc auth and just direct clients to _your_ servers
19:31 < roblabla> That too, but IDC so much :P
19:31 < ezdiy> instead of mc.net
19:31 < roblabla> but ezdiy that requires a modded launcher
19:31 < ezdiy> depends
19:32 < ezdiy> might be as simple as
19:32 < roblabla> And writing your own authentication server software implementing mojang's DRM
19:32 < ezdiy> set http_proxy=http://your.server
19:32 < ezdiy> minecraft.bat
19:32 < pbunny> ezdiy: but that will require modding
19:32 < pbunny> etc
19:32 < roblabla> You still have to write your own auth server software implementing mojang's DRM
19:32 < ezdiy> pbunny: no
19:32 < ezdiy> pbunny: you just tell java to use proxy
19:32 < roblabla> And that's a PITA XD
19:32 < ezdiy> thats all
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19:32 < pbunny> ezdiy: i may implement both auth schemes in the future
19:32 -!- Kosmos [~Kosmos@80-219-252-7.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Client Quit]
19:32 < pbunny> so regular users can use modded client, and new ones can connect using vanila
19:33 < pbunny> vanilla *
19:33 < ezdiy> yeah
19:33 < ezdiy> that probably works best
19:36 < dav1d> how was the python server called?
19:36 < dav1d> superjoe: ^ you should know that :P
19:37 < pbunny> dav1d: iirc it was called a shit
19:37 < dav1d> pbunny: what, funny today?
19:37 < pbunny> i'm totally serious
19:38 < pbunny> python is a language developed by people who ban on #python for asking "so how do i compile python to /usr/lib64 ?" type of questions
19:38 < dav1d> aha
19:38 < pbunny> and i had to make a 4Kb patch to override hardcoded /usr/lib paths everywhere
19:39 < dav1d> so you're banned on python?
19:39 < pbunny> to install it multilib
19:39 < dav1d> pbunny: LOL
19:39 < dav1d> sorry but you are dumb
19:39 < dav1d> make
19:39 < pbunny> dav1d: by default, python keeps looking into /usr/lib/python-2.7/* and you can't change it with --with-libdir=/usr/lib64
19:39 < dav1d> make install
19:39 < dav1d> with correct environment paths
19:39 < dav1d> or if it's the 2nd install, make altinstall
19:39 < pbunny> dav1d: /usr/lib is hardwired into its source
19:40 < dav1d> no it isn't lol
19:40 < pbunny> yes it is.
19:40 < pbunny> lemme check the lines
19:40 < dav1d> I can install python to ~/home/pbunny/is/dumb
19:40 < dav1d> what I actually did
19:40 < dav1d> for a virtualenv
19:41 < pbunny> dav1d: http://dump.bitcheese.net/files/idivazu/Python-2.7.3-multilib-1.patch
19:42 < dav1d> actually it's ./configure 
19:42 < dav1d> my bad
19:42 < pbunny> and http://dump.bitcheese.net/texts/oxebilu/Plaintext
19:42 < dav1d> you used ./configure before right?
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19:43 < dav1d> and you know what {base} is?
19:43 < pbunny> dav1d: yeah.
19:43 < dav1d> that base can be an arbitraty path?
19:43 < pbunny> as i stated multiple times, --with-libdir=/usr/lib64 makes python install libraries into /usr/lib64
19:43 < pbunny> but he looks for his modules inside /usr/lib/python-*
19:43 < pbunny> see the patches i linked to
19:43 < pbunny> for relevant files/lines
19:43 < dav1d> holy fuck
19:44 < dav1d> I think the reason you were banned on #python was not the question but your ignorance
19:44 < pbunny> have you read the patches i linked?
19:44 < dav1d> pbunny: lol
19:45 < dav1d> ./configure --libexecdir=/usr/lib64
19:45 < dav1d> found in two minutes
19:45 < zutto> do you realize pbunny what you are asking?
19:45 < zutto> its not difficult to change the directory make compiles the files
19:45 < pbunny> zutto: right
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19:45 < pbunny> zutto: but it is difficult to make python not look for modules in /usr/lib/python-*
19:45 < pbunny> this /usr/lib is hardcoded in many of places
19:45 < dav1d> pbunny: trololo, ./configure --libdir=/usr/lib64 --libexecdir=/usr/lib64
19:46 < pbunny> zutto: http://dump.bitcheese.net/texts/oxebilu/Plaintext
19:46 < pbunny> just see
19:46 < pbunny> this patch changes these hardwired locations to /usr/lib64
19:46 < dav1d> and change the patchfile
19:46 < dav1d> sed -i -e 's#$(prefix)/lib#$(prefix)/lib64#' Makefile
19:46 < pbunny> dav1d: ./configure has no influence on lines like self.library_dirs.append(os.path.join(sys.prefix, "lib", in python modules
19:46 < pbunny> please try to understand.
19:46 < pbunny> if not, i'm done with you
19:47 < dav1d> pbunny: funny
19:47 < dav1d> because the archlinux pkgbuild works
19:47 < dav1d> and it doesn't apply any patch
19:47 < dav1d> https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/li/lib32-python2/PKGBUILD
19:47 < dav1d> uups
19:47 < pbunny> well i'm talking about vanilla python source tarball
19:47 < dav1d> LOL
19:47 < dav1d> srsly, this is getting funnier and funnier
19:48 < pbunny> and you know what? this PKGBUILD is not for multi-lib system
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19:48 < pbunny> ( in case you understand that term at all )
19:49 < zutto> pbunny might be actually right in this
19:49 < dav1d> wat?
19:49 < zutto> if theres no x64 version of the sauce
19:49 < dav1d> pbunny: this is to install a 32 bit version for a 64bit system
19:49 < pbunny> zutto: lines like "'stdlib': '{base}/lib/python{py_version_short}'," are totally uninfluenced by configure
19:49 < pbunny> that's what he fails to understand
19:49 -!- pi1 is now known as roblabla
19:50 < dav1d> ok I have better things todo, even if it's just scratching my nose
19:50 < pbunny> dav1d: right. now go and google about "multilib systems"
19:50 < roblabla> what's going on ?
19:50 < pbunny> and surprisingly, amongst hundreds of software packages i built, python is the only one that have problems like that
19:50 < inkoate> pbunny doesn't like python, and dav1d is 13 years old.
19:50 < dav1d> we laughed about you, thanks, made our day, again
19:51 < inkoate> that's about it, roblabla 
19:51 < pbunny> :)
19:51 < roblabla> riiight
19:51 < roblabla> Python is an awesome language. But nodejs is better
19:51 < dav1d> ^ lol
19:51 < roblabla> that's all I can say :)
19:51 < Calinou> ^ lol
19:51 < dav1d> ^ so true
19:52 < zutto> nodejs was intresting
19:52 < zutto> until i read the word javascript
19:52 < roblabla> That's what makes it even more awesome
19:53 < roblabla> javascript is a cool language, despite it's many flaws.
19:53 < zutto> gotta give them points for using v8
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19:53 < dav1d> "javascript is a cool language, despite it's many flaws."
19:53 < dav1d> :(
19:53 < dav1d> javascript - javascript = {}
19:53 < roblabla> Whenever I want to fiddle with the minecraft protocol, I use superjoe's node-minecraft-protocol library, allows me to prototype and test stuff superfast
19:54 < roblabla> and guess what ? It's javascript :D
19:54 < zutto> when i tried nodejs, i liked the non blocking io shit in it, but it got very annoying very fast due to the bugs nodejs had
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19:54 < roblabla> AND ! It's super-easy to read and understand
19:54 < dav1d> javascripts approach: fix the language with libraries
19:54 < roblabla> zutto: what version ?
19:54 < zutto> some early version, i could assume most of them are fixed
19:54 < roblabla> With 0.8, it's very stable and pretty bug-free
19:54 < roblabla> that's the version I use
19:54 < zutto> they were all file IO related bugs
19:54 < roblabla> anyhow g2g
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19:55 < ezdiy> node is awesome
19:55 < ezdiy> till you get stuck at odd things like, um
19:56 < ezdiy> arrays with 2 billion items in it, ummm, apparently cant do
19:56 < ezdiy> (anything memory intenstive seems to be broken actually)
19:56 < pbunny> PHP and C are the only languages needed
19:56 < pbunny> PHP helps to code something fast and dirty
19:57 < pbunny> C allows for perfect elegance and performance
19:57 < zutto> i'm very much enjoying my c#/mono
19:57 < pbunny> so, i.e. for testing bot PHP is perfect
19:57 < pbunny> or for coding $ploits
19:57 < zutto> :| no
19:57 < zutto> php has no multithreading, and shitloads of bugs
19:57 < zutto> its no fun
19:58 < pbunny> yeah, it's perfect for quick and dirty work
19:58 < zutto> php is useful for small things
19:58 < pbunny> yes
19:58 < zutto> but bots? no
19:58 < pbunny> and for large things you use C
19:58 < pbunny> zutto: "testing bot" != "bot"
19:58 < zutto> testing bot is too much of a bot
19:58 < pbunny> zutto: it doesn't have to be elegant
19:59 < pbunny> you use them to test, then discard
19:59 < pbunny> like condom
19:59 < dav1d> as if C was elegant
20:00 < pbunny> totally
20:00 < pbunny> well it depends on coder
20:00 < dexter0> dav1d: it's even more elegant when you make everything a macro.
20:01 < dav1d> dexter0: HAHA
20:01 < dav1d> pbunny: then we have totally different definitions of elegance
20:01 < pbunny> dexter0: elegancy != simplicity
20:01 < pbunny> dav1d: i'm glad we have
20:02 < dav1d> xD, you don't know my defintion
20:02 < ezdiy> fast and dirty
20:02 < ezdiy> well
20:02 < ezdiy> perhaps if you dont know python or ruby
20:02 < ezdiy> :)
20:02 < ezdiy> or perl
20:02 < pbunny> ezdiy: PHP is more flexible than any of them
20:02 < ezdiy> doubt so
20:02 < zutto> no, it isnt
20:02 < pbunny> i.e. you can do eval("$var{$something++}"); etc
20:02 < ezdiy> pbunny: it all comes down to libraries
20:03 < ezdiy> language features dont matter at all
20:03 < ezdiy> for example
20:03 < ezdiy> ip range manipulation in php
20:03 < ezdiy> i think its almost impossible to this day
20:03 < ezdiy> while perl/python is just import netaddr :)
20:03 < pbunny> ezdiy: in php you don't even need that
20:03 < pbunny> you just call connect()
20:03 < ezdiy> blah
20:04 < ezdiy> pbunny: connect is sockets, nothing to do with ip/range manipulation :)
20:04 < ezdiy> good luck writing ipcalc in php
20:04 < eddyb> "PHP"
20:05 < ezdiy> php has one very strong point though
20:05 < ezdiy> its almost universally understood by everyone
20:05 < pbunny> ezdiy: ipcalc is not something that should be coded "fast and dirty"
20:05 < ezdiy> webdesigners, office workers, everyone
20:05 < pbunny> you got out of the scope
20:05 < ezdiy> pbunny: yes it is
20:05 < ezdiy> make 
20:05 < ezdiy> believe
20:05 < ezdiy> you're a network sysadmin
20:05 < ezdiy> and you have this huge file with various ips and prefixes in it
20:05 < eddyb> the language that is so bad I would consider strapping webkit+v8 to apache to run client-side JS on the server
20:05 < eddyb> because that's faster
20:05 < ezdiy> and you need to process it quick and dirty :)
20:06 < eddyb> aaand saner
20:06 < pbunny> i would probably get some tools for that
20:06 < ezdiy> pbunny: but youre right that for simple things like string manipulation php is ok
20:06 < ezdiy> as i said
20:06 < ezdiy> universally understood even by janitors
20:07 < ezdiy> is huge plus in terms of maintainability
20:07 < ezdiy> and cheap labour :)
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20:07 < pbunny> well i consider ip range manipulation not from "quick and dirty" scope :)
20:07 < ezdiy> hehe
20:07 < ezdiy> yeah
20:07 < ezdiy> php cant do it
20:07 < shoghicp> hi
20:07 < shoghicp> xD xD xD
20:07 < pbunny> O.O
20:07 < ezdiy> pbunny: in every sane language its simple :)
20:07 < shoghicp> ezdiy: that was timed?
20:07 < pbunny> shoghicp: i just cloned your php client today
20:07 < pbunny> nice coinscidence
20:07 < ezdiy> shoghicp: prety much
20:07 < shoghicp> hmm
20:07 < shoghicp> It is biased on 1.5
20:07 < ezdiy> shoghicp: just bashing how horrible php is
20:08 < ezdiy> :)))
20:08 < shoghicp> I confrim that
20:08 < shoghicp> confirm*
20:08 < shoghicp> now, test the server ;)
20:08 < ezdiy> (but has a wider audience than java, so writing a mc client in it is smart move)
20:10 < shoghicp> Do you remember PocketMine-MP?
20:12 < ezdiy> shoghicp: it would be fun if it supported hphpc
20:12 < shoghicp> I use weird PHP things
20:12 < ezdiy> (native binary compiler for php)
20:12 < ezdiy> well
20:12 < ezdiy> as long there are no evals()
20:12 < shoghicp> And it breaks even PHP itself
20:12 < shoghicp> ezdiy: the tick directive
20:13 < shoghicp> that breaks everything
20:13 < shoghicp> even PHP itself
20:13 < shoghicp> (if used carelessly)
20:13 < ezdiy> shoghicp: still the code quality is decent
20:13 < ezdiy> cant quite believe you stick with php :/
20:15 < shoghicp> People is asking for moving the MCPE server to Java ;)
20:15 < ezdiy> eew
20:15 < ezdiy> why not javascript?
20:15 < ezdiy> this could be translated to v8 almost 1:1 :)
20:15 < shoghicp> node.js ;)
20:15 < ezdiy> yep
20:15 < shoghicp> There is a MCPE proxy for node.js
20:15 < ezdiy> still almost as crappy as php
20:15 < ezdiy> but a bit faster
20:16 < shoghicp> ezdiy: check https://github.com/shoghicp/PocketMine-MP
20:16 < eddyb> ezdiy: JS is not 1:1 with PHP
20:16 < eddyb> ezdiy: there were so many stupid things in PHP that you can easily get over with in JS
20:16 < ezdiy> eddyb: depends on the php coding standards you're translating from
20:16 < shoghicp> And the reverse ;)
20:16 < ezdiy> eddyb: which seem to be high in https://github.com/shoghicp/PocketMine-MP
20:16 < eddyb> shoghicp: huh?
20:17 < ezdiy> js -> php is almost impossible indeed :)
20:17 < shoghicp> xD http://php.net/manual/en/book.v8js.php
20:17 < ezdiy> lol
20:17 < eddyb> functions can be passed around as values, + is used for concatenation
20:18 < eddyb> all the function expressions that you just can't do in PHP
20:18 < ezdiy> eddyb: sure
20:18 < eddyb> shoghicp: lol
20:18 < ezdiy> we all know js is much more awesome than php in syntactic details
20:18 < shoghicp> eddyb: You can do that on PHP now (most of it) ;)
20:18 < ezdiy> which is why you can do php->js
20:18 < ezdiy> but cant do the opposite
20:18 < ezdiy> exactly for those reasons
20:18 < ezdiy> because you lose information :)
20:18 < ezdiy> when concat operator becomes addition
20:19 -!- pib1964 [~pib1964@your.friendly.media.team.coder.ark-cr.info] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:19 < ezdiy> shoghicp: well, i'll keep an eye on your github account
20:19 -!- roblabla|Away is now known as roblabla
20:19 < shoghicp> :)
20:19 < ezdiy> once youre done with 1.5 server
20:20 < ezdiy> i'll try some translating attempts
20:20 < shoghicp> That link is a MCPE server
20:20 < ezdiy> luajit2 would be most awesome
20:20 < roblabla> PHP is a horrible language.
20:20 < ezdiy> shoghicp: i know
20:20 < shoghicp> In fact, the only one available
20:20 < ezdiy> never player mcpe
20:20 < ezdiy> dunno what its like
20:21 < ezdiy> s/player/played/
20:21 < shoghicp> Minecraft Beta - Redstone - Nether - Trains - Pistons
20:21 < shoghicp> - Infinite worlds
20:21 < shoghicp> - => minus sign
20:21 < ezdiy> hmm
20:21 < ezdiy> not bad
20:22 < ezdiy> all the useless things trimmed basically
20:22 < ezdiy> shoghicp: i cant see any decent worldgen though :(
20:22 < shoghicp> But the protocol is biased xD
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20:22 < ezdiy> oh, object directory missed that
20:22 < shoghicp> the server can't set a player's inventory slot
20:23 < ezdiy> just trees?
20:23 < shoghicp> I'm not generating worlds yet
20:23 < shoghicp> Only plain
20:23 < ezdiy> ah
20:23 < shoghicp> I'm rewriting that part
20:23 < ezdiy> thats always the toughest part :(
20:23 < shoghicp> But it can import MCPE worlds ;)
20:23 < shoghicp> Todo: https://github.com/shoghicp/PocketMine-MP/issues/98
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20:24 < ezdiy> how do you debug such a huge beast btw?
20:24 < shoghicp> everything uses events that can be modified
20:24  * ezdiy is fairly ignorant on availability of single-stepping ides for PHP
20:24 < shoghicp> so I can hook into anything
20:24 < ezdiy> oh
20:25 < roblabla> shoghicp: you writing an MCPE server in PHP ?
20:25 < shoghicp> It's already done ;)
20:25 < shoghicp> I'm implementing parts of the survival mode
20:25 < roblabla> nice...
20:25 < ezdiy> roblabla: and its really as hardcore as it sounds
20:25 < shoghicp> and improving it xD
20:25 < roblabla> but I have a stupid question : how can clients connect ?_?
20:25 < shoghicp> directly
20:25 < shoghicp> you can run it on your computer
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20:26 < roblabla> Right, so we won't be seeing huge 30-players MCPE servers anytime soon lol
20:26 < shoghicp> or, you can set up a proxy on your computer to forward to an online server
20:26 < shoghicp> roblabla: there are
20:26 < roblabla> (yes, huge 30 players. I make sense)
20:26 < shoghicp> there are MCPE servers of 60 players ;)
20:26 < shoghicp> Hunger Games servers
20:26 < roblabla> rly ? But... isn't the space supersmall ?
20:26 < roblabla> or can your server expand the boundaries
20:26 < shoghicp> they made a custom plugin for this
20:27 < shoghicp> roblabla: It'll be able
20:27 < shoghicp> but they used a better idea
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20:27 < shoghicp> http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1758984-lbsg-lifeboat-survival-games-fully-automatic-new-classes-android-and-ios-no-lag-247-whitelist-and-no-whitelist-ip-506213299/
20:27 < shoghicp> Usually each round has about 40 players
20:28 < shoghicp> It's a different concept
20:28 < roblabla> I'll probably attempt to translate your server to nodejs when I have some time to waste ^^
20:28 < ezdiy> roblabla: i think even luajit might work
20:28 < roblabla> I don't know lua
20:28 < roblabla> and before you tell me lua is similar to javascript, I've been told.
20:28 < ezdiy> yeah, it sucks for actual dev
20:28 < ezdiy> but its near-c performance when jitted
20:29 < shoghicp> Also, I use a custom-made PHP build
20:29 < shoghicp> including some extensions
20:29 < shoghicp> Threading for PHP ;)
20:29 < roblabla> I used lua to bundle scripting in a game I made in the past, so I know the "lua syntax"
20:29 < shoghicp> (even more weirdness!)
20:29 < roblabla> but as far as libraries goes.... I'm a lua illiterate
20:30 < ezdiy> shoghicp: actually thats fine
20:30 < ezdiy> as long you do your own php build
20:30 < ezdiy> and pick thread safe exts
20:30 < ezdiy> not that much exts would be thread safe :)
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20:30 < shoghicp> Using: PHP, zlib, curl and pthreads
20:30 < ezdiy> sql?
20:30 < shoghicp> and SQLite3
20:30 < ezdiy> ah
20:30 < ezdiy> sqlite3
20:30 < ezdiy> yeah
20:30 < ezdiy> that should all be fine
20:31 < shoghicp> the compile script: https://github.com/shoghicp/PocketMine-MP/blob/master/compile_php.sh
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20:31 < shoghicp> everything is statically linked
20:31 < ezdiy> i see
20:31 < ezdiy> "dont even bother, linux users, lol"
20:32 < superjoe> dav1d, what's that? I missed something
20:32 < shoghicp> also, my code likes to find bugs xD
20:32 < shoghicp> found some nasty PHP bugs
20:33 < ezdiy> those are not bugs
20:33 < ezdiy> but features
20:33 < ezdiy> for example
20:33 < shoghicp> like lines that aren't executed, or executed twice randomly
20:33 < ezdiy> when "0e12345" == 0
20:33 < ezdiy> thats normal
20:33 < ezdiy> :)
20:33 < ezdiy> shoghicp: um
20:33 < shoghicp> ("0e12345" === 0) === false
20:33 < ezdiy> sounds like threading bugs
20:33 < shoghicp> Always use === instead of ==
20:34 < superjoe> I use == when comparing to null
20:34 < shoghicp> ezdiy: that was before adding pthreads
20:34 < ezdiy> shoghicp: i think type coercion happens in different places too
20:34 < ezdiy> not just ==
20:34 < shoghicp> superjoe: search for " == " in my code, you'll find it only in specific cases
20:34 < ezdiy> array indexes perhaps?
20:34 < ezdiy> :)
20:34 < shoghicp> >= and <=
20:35 < superjoe> shoghicp, are you guys talking about php or js?
20:35 < shoghicp> php
20:35 < roblabla> they're talking bout php
20:35 < ezdiy> 		$this->map[$X][$Z][0][$index]{$y} = chr($block);
20:35 < ezdiy> this is possibly the single inefficient part about that code
20:36 < roblabla> I can't even read that...
20:36 < ezdiy> php arrays are horribly implemented underneath
20:36 < ezdiy> but i assume mcpe are small maps so it does not matter
20:37 < shoghicp> ezdiy: That is going to be rewritten ;)
20:37 < roblabla> much smaller than minecraft Desktop :P
20:37 < shoghicp> 256x128x256
20:37 < ezdiy> shoghicp: i dont know how to do it better though
20:37 < ezdiy> shoghicp: maybe some ext which supports actual native arrays?
20:38 < ezdiy> 256x128x256 is ok
20:38 < ezdiy> even with php overhead
20:38 < ezdiy> which is like 50 bytes per cell
20:38 < shoghicp> that array is not an array of blocks
20:38 < shoghicp> but of chunks ;)
20:38 < ezdiy> huh
20:39 < ezdiy> setBlock ?
20:39 < shoghicp> ?
20:39 < ezdiy> well
20:40 < ezdiy> its map of chunks
20:40 < shoghicp> btw, https://github.com/search?p=1&q=%3D%3D+repo%3Ashoghicp%2FPocketMine-MP&ref=searchresults&type=Code
20:40 < ezdiy> which in turn contains map of blocks
20:40 < ezdiy> $this->map[$X][$Z][0][$index]{$y} = chr($block);
20:40 < ezdiy> thats how i interpret it anyways
20:41 < shoghicp> ezdiy: columns of blocks
20:41 < ezdiy> it does not really matter though
20:41 < shoghicp> at least, PHP numerical arrays are faster
20:41 < ezdiy> i think those are still stored as string :(
20:41 < ezdiy> the keys of such arrays
20:42 < shoghicp> no ;)
20:42 < ezdiy> oh, neat
20:42 < shoghicp> "3" !== 3
20:42 < roblabla> true
20:42 < roblabla> :)
20:42 < shoghicp> "3" == 3
20:42 < ezdiy> so array[0] != array["0"] anymore?
20:42 < ezdiy> i mean array[0] == array["0"] anymore?
20:42 < shoghicp> if the array has the same value...
20:42 < ezdiy> no
20:43 < ezdiy> the indexes used to be strings
20:43 < ezdiy> at least in php 5.1 last time i checked
20:43 < ezdiy> could have changed since then
20:43 < shoghicp> doing a fast check
20:43 < shoghicp> oh oh xD
20:43 < shoghicp> we're at PHP 5.5!
20:44 < ezdiy> hmm
20:44 < ezdiy> seems still as strings
20:45 < shoghicp> but the key is then saved as an integer lol xD
20:45 < shoghicp> $a = array(); $a[] = 1; $a["0"] = 2; var_dump($a); var_dump(key($a));
20:46 < shoghicp> output
20:46 < shoghicp> array(1) {  [0] =>  int(2) }  int(0)
20:46 < shoghicp> so the key is saved as a number there...
20:46 < shoghicp> nah, it's PHP, so nvm
20:47 < ezdiy> yeah
20:47 < ezdiy> it seems to double check now
20:47 < ezdiy> foreach (array(1) as $key => $value) if ($key === 0) echo "fuck php";
20:47 < ezdiy> this used to say fuck php
20:47 < ezdiy> when == "0"
20:47 < ezdiy> actually there wasnt even === back then
20:47 < ezdiy> there wasn distinction between int and string at all iirc :)
20:47 < shoghicp> lol xD
20:48 < shoghicp> emm
20:48 < shoghicp> that is right
20:48 < shoghicp> array(1) === array(0 => 1)
20:48 < ezdiy> yep
20:48 < shoghicp> foreach (array(1) as $key => $value) if ($key === 0) echo "fuck php";
20:49 < shoghicp> oops
20:49 < shoghicp> foreach (array(1 =>1) as $key => $value) if ($key === 0) echo "fuck php";
20:49 < shoghicp> you mean that?
20:49 < shoghicp> because at leas, from my point of view, it is right :S
20:50 < ezdiy> nah
20:50 < ezdiy> it behaves as expected now
20:50 < ezdiy> but
20:50 < ezdiy> i think in doing so
20:50 < ezdiy> it broke ihis
20:50 < ezdiy> foreach (array("1" => 1) as $key => $value) if ($key === "1") echo "ok php";
20:51 < ezdiy> "1" is now treated as int
20:51 < ezdiy> so i assume they "fixed" it
20:51 < jast> gotta love PHP
20:51 < ezdiy> just by forcing int in number like array indices lol :)
20:51 < shoghicp> xD xD
20:51 < shoghicp> at least, "1a" !== "1"
20:52 < ezdiy> yup
20:52 < ezdiy> no crazy conversion either
20:53 < ezdiy> 1e0000 is just string
20:53 < ezdiy> only when its [0-9] string then god help us all :)
20:53 < shoghicp> yeah xD
20:55 < ezdiy> (to be fair i think lua and js did such retarded auto type coercions at some point as well)
20:56 < shoghicp> But I can't control even my own server in PHP
20:56 < shoghicp> when players are Kicked
20:57 < shoghicp> their objects are closed, destructed, nulled and then unsetted from the array that calls them. Even I lock themselves from running anything
20:57 < shoghicp> But some plugin devs. keep complaining about ghost players that continue to being executed somewhere
20:57 < shoghicp> even when no direct reference is pointing at tham
20:58 < ezdiy> yeah
20:58 < ezdiy> php is kinda leaky like that
20:58 < ezdiy> shoghicp: just save game world state
20:58 < ezdiy> and restart once a while
20:58 < ezdiy> pe protocol is udp based
20:58 < ezdiy> so no problem here, right?
20:59 < shoghicp> I've fixed these leaky things ;)
20:59 < shoghicp> the memori consumption for ~10 players is about 50MB
20:59 < shoghicp> including the map and server itself
20:59 < ezdiy> its not about player count
20:59 < ezdiy> but uptime
20:59 < ezdiy> ie how much memory after week running
20:59 < shoghicp> uptime? infinite, at least
20:59 < ezdiy> when players get in/out
20:59 < shoghicp> no leaks ;)
20:59 < shoghicp> tested
21:00 < shoghicp> I free every object that has any kind of reference
21:01 < shoghicp> If not, like temp. objects, PHP freeds them in 20 seconds or so
21:01 < shoghicp> yay Java http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/topics/security/javacpuapr2013-1928497.html
21:01 < shoghicp> "This Critical Patch Update contains 42 new security fixes for Oracle Java SE.  39 of these vulnerabilities may be remotely exploitable "
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21:06 < shoghicp> from #phpc: r1chard: cythrawll, a lot of the code in PHP scares me this is why I wrap most of the APIs I use.
21:06 < shoghicp> Oh, PocketMine-MP has passed the 200 issues mark xD
21:07 < shoghicp> I'll be back here another day
21:07 < shoghicp> see you!
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21:24 < superjoe> I gave 2 weeks notice on friday
21:24 < superjoe> so excited :D
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00:26 < TkTech> superjoe: Where you off to?
00:27 < superjoe> nowhere yet. Just going to enjoy a few months of freetime
00:29 < TkTech> Ah, also enjoyable.
00:30 < superjoe> I've been tinkering with the idea of trying to do a video game kickstarter
00:37 < TkTech> superjoe: Have you made a commercial (or free) game in the past?
00:37 < superjoe> TkTech, yes but not a big one. I got 1st place in pyweek one year: http://www.pyweek.org/e/superjoe/
00:40 < TkTech> superjoe: Gotta be honest here, that's nowhere near enough to justify a kickstarter…you need to show a good, pre-existing foundation, extensive research, you should already have deals with a few designers, plenty of mockups and usually a prototype
00:41 < TkTech> Typically games on kickstarter only work out if they're well known for a previous game and/or have a very impressive demo, existing storyline, etc...
00:41 < TkTech> Oddly a lot easier to do a kickstarter for EE projects...
00:41 < superjoe> TkTech, we do plan to have a prototype and impressive demo ready before launching a campaign
00:42 < superjoe> also I am teaming up with Superpowerless who has a decent sized audience from his musical stuff
00:42 < superjoe> that being said I do appreciate the honest feedback
00:42 < TkTech> Ah, most excellent. I thought you were going to try one in a month or something, not down the road.
00:48 < TkTech> -- Note: Anyone here using Linode? Ever used Linode? Your unencrypted CC details and personal details are now on the loose. --
00:48 < superjoe> yeah, me. >.<
00:48 < TkTech> Call your bank and get and cards used in the past (even if they've been removed) revoked.
00:49 < TkTech> What a shitty day.
00:49 < superjoe> yeah. I'm so sad that people still kill each other :(
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00:50 < TkTech> The Boston bombs are looking pretty iffy right now, there were dozens of bombs in Afghanistan set off today as well.
00:50 < TkTech> Shortly before or following
00:51 < superjoe> what do you mean by "iffy"?
00:51 < TkTech> Co-ordinated by a malicious group instead of random crazy #69.
00:51 <+ammar2> probably coincidental, doesn't make much sense to have a synchronized bombing all the way around the world
00:54 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: where did you get that Linode news from btw?
00:55 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: The most up-to-date conversation is currently -> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5552756
00:58 < superjoe> TkTech, did linode officially acknowledge it yet?
00:58 < superjoe> last I checked they said there was no confirmed CC compromise
01:00 < TkTech> superjoe: Linode hasn't said a peep outside of their blog post (http://blog.linode.com/2013/04/12/security-notice-linode-manager-password-reset/).
01:00 < superjoe> good to know
01:00 < superjoe> gotta run, ta ta for now
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01:44 <+Scootabyte> TkTech, know any good alternative to Linode? :P
01:48 < TkTech> Scootabyte: AWS has always been solid if you use it right.
01:48 < TkTech> (And even when you don't, I have a non-redundant micro that has an uptime of over 1 ½ years)
01:48 <+ammar2> wasn't aws a bit expensive in terms of bandwith
01:49 <+ammar2> been running an irc bnc on a free ec2 instance for a year, and now for another 8 months or so :3
01:51 <+Scootabyte> What kind of an interface does AWS provide? Does it appear as a server (like Linode), where I have total control over installation/configuration of software
01:51 <+Scootabyte> or is it more "managed" kind of a server, where I have to do everything through control panels
01:51 < TkTech> Scootabyte: AWS is infinitely more flexible than Linode. There is no such thing as a managed AWS instance (outside of 3rd parties)
01:52 < TkTech> Scootabyte: They're pretty much VPSs, to you the user.
01:52 <+Scootabyte> Ah ok. So I'll still be able to use lighttpd and svnd and all that crap?
01:52 <+Scootabyte> Perhaps I will switch.
01:52 < TkTech> Whatever the *BLEEP* you wanted.
01:53 <+Scootabyte> heh
01:53 < TkTech> Browsed more than a dozen websites today? Odds are you were on AWS.
01:54 < TkTech> https://aws.amazon.com/amis/ <- These are the base AMIs, many thousands more pre-built for specific purposes.
01:54 <+Scootabyte> Well yeah, I know it is a widely-used system, I just had no idea what kind of control it provides
01:54 < TkTech> They're VPS, the only controls it provides is a very comprehensive admin panel that's designed to manage resources (instances, load balances, DNS, etc…) and a very comprehensive API.
01:55 < TkTech> ammar2: It can be very expensive for bandwith depending on what you're doing. You shouldn't be hosting media off an EC2 instance for example, you should be using S3.
01:55 < TkTech> ammar2: But for a blog, website, game server, torrent box, whatever - it doesn't matter.
01:56 <+Scootabyte> (well, for a torrent box, bandwidth might matter. Depends on how ambitious you get :P)
01:56 <+Scootabyte> Alright, I'll give AWS a try
01:57 < TkTech> Scootabyte: If this is your first time you won't pay anything for the next year, realistically.
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01:57 <+Scootabyte> Well, I am hosting about 8 random sites, most of them low-bandwidth
01:57 <+ammar2> yeah, I was paying like 40 cents or so, that just because of io requests
01:58 <+Scootabyte> And I started using CloudFlare on everything this year, so that's lowered my already-low bandwidth :P
01:58 < TkTech> My base monthly is $90 something, but I do the majority of my work on spot instances brought up as-needed and torn down immediately after.
01:58 <+ammar2> yeah, cloudflare is pretty handy
01:59 < TkTech> It's fun bringing up a thousand cores just to save an hour or two.
01:59 <+Scootabyte> $90/month? That sounds steep
01:59 <+Scootabyte> Compared to Linode
01:59 <+Scootabyte> Is that common?
02:00 < TkTech> That isn't for one server. I work in Big Data™.
02:00 < TkTech> I use AWS extensively for work.
02:00 < TkTech> Linode doesn't even offer servers the size I use daily.
02:01 <+Scootabyte> Aha, I just got a reply from Linode tech support
02:01 <+Scootabyte> > Thank you for contacting us. We are working on putting together another statement and posting it on our blog. At this time we have no evidence to suggest that customers' entire credit card numbers have been compromised. We will be releasing any additional information that becomes available on our blog at http://blog.linode.com
02:02 < TkTech> "No evidence" is a safety word to keep them from getting sued.
02:02 <+Scootabyte> Yep heh. That reply does not inspire confidence
02:02 <+Scootabyte> I'll be right back;
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02:17 < TkTech> Scootabyte: Lies, that took forever.
02:17 < TkTech> Scootabyte: Anyways, a micro (which you get for free for a year) runs about $14.
02:18 < TkTech> Scootabyte: It's more than enough for a blog/personal site, IRC bouncer for several users, bla bla.
02:18 <+Scootabyte> excellent
02:18 <+Scootabyte> Alright I got a znc set up, I'll rejoin one last time
02:18 <+Scootabyte> And just to piss you off -- new nick!
02:18 <+Scootabyte> :P
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02:23 <+Matvei> There we go. No more join/part spam from me.
02:24 <+Matvei> I've been waiting for this nick to drop for better part of a year; at last it happened :p
02:30 < TkTech> Heh
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02:45 < Ghoul_> ff
02:45 < Ghoul_> Theres a glitch with WorldBorder or something
02:46 < Ghoul_> It's been annoying me to no end. If you use the fill command it always corrupts (at least one) chunks that cause (eventually) the whole server to throw an exception and crash
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02:54 <+Matvei> hm
02:54 <+Matvei> Tech support for AWS $49/month? eh.
02:56 <+Matvei> I hope I won't need it :P
02:56 < TkTech> Why in the hells would you?
02:56 <+Matvei> You're forgetting that I am a noob
02:57 <+Matvei> Now, to figure out what these dozens of different services mean...
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03:30 <+Matvei> I like how everything in AWS Sydney datacenter is 5-10x more expensive than the rest of the world. Poor Australians.
03:31 <+Matvei> Outbound bandwidth seems very expensive on EC2. $0.25/GB
03:32 <+Matvei> Oh wait I was looking at Australian pricing. $0.12/GB in US.
03:32 <+Matvei> Still.
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09:23 < Brottweiler> Would this be the channel for IRC support for mark2?
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09:30 <+clonejo> afaik there is an extra channel dedicated to that project
09:36 < Brottweiler> Yes, #mark2 seems to exist on freenode (tried on esper at first), pretty empty though
09:43 <+clonejo> edk: ping ^
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11:47 < dav1d> Brottweiler: ! :D
11:47 < Brottweiler> :o
11:48 < Brottweiler> dav1d: Your URL doesnt work btw, only the IP i think :(
11:48 < dav1d> Brottweiler: nope works
11:48 < Brottweiler> ok, it didnt the other day
11:48 < dav1d> I connect with the domain
11:48 < Brottweiler> well I tridd to go to the domain:6666, but only the IP worked
11:48 < dav1d> Brottweiler: you had https and not http?
11:49 < Brottweiler> i dont know, ican see later :P
11:49 < dav1d> or do you mean connecting to the server?
11:49 < dav1d> well, it should definitly work now
11:49 < dav1d> because I connect through the domain and can access the webpanel
11:50 < Brottweiler> okey, i tried to go to the webpanel
11:50 < dav1d> yeah, you probably used http
11:50 < Brottweiler> in my /etc/hosts I have the IP domain then the "fake" adresses for irssi to work :P
11:50 < Brottweiler> maybe
11:50 < dav1d> http → net::ERR_CONNECTION_RESET
11:51 < dav1d> gtg
11:52 < dav1d> cya
11:52 < Brottweiler> bai
11:57 < pbunny> ok, so i did http://dump.bitcheese.net/texts/axyjuxy/C for locking chunk B's mutexes from chunk A while chunk A's mutex is locked too
11:58 < pbunny> i.e. safelock(&chunk->entities_mutex,&xchunk->entities_mutex); ...do entities stuff... ; pthread_mutex_unlock(&xchunk->entities_mutex);
11:58 < pbunny> any better suggestions?
11:58 < pbunny> should prevent deadlocks, but may have not optimal performance
11:59 <+md_5> you are really still going for performance ;
11:59 < pbunny> yes.
12:00 <+md_5> on that note, usleep is actually depreceated and not in later posix standards
12:01 < pbunny> its trivial to replace it, i am asking about better implementations if any
12:02 < pbunny> dav1d: maybe you can suggest something? i would use your intellect now
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12:10 < dav1d> pbunny: you process each chunk in a mutex?
12:10 < dav1d> s/mutex/thread/
12:11 < dav1d> this is really inefficient
12:11 <+ammar2> he has a group of chunks iirc
12:11 < dav1d> I would combine all threads which do basically the same into one, so that no two threads to the same on different data
12:12 < dav1d> ammar2: still combining tasks instead of threads leaves you with less threads, which is always a good thing
12:13 < dav1d> -> less mutexes, less possible deadlocks, less bugs, way more system friendly
12:14 <+ammar2> ehhh, not necessarily. It can allow you to concurrently split and carry out complex tasks in parts. It's just the timing overhead + complexity outweights it significantly in this case
12:14 < pbunny> dav1d: no, i will have a thread pool
12:14 < pbunny> right now i use 1 chunk per thread due to better debugging
12:15 < pbunny> later there will be like 8-20 threads and chunks will be assigned and balanced between them
12:15 < dav1d> I used a threading-pool in BraLa, I ended up removing it
12:15 < pbunny> too complex?
12:15 < dav1d> yeah kinda, made things too difficult
12:16 < pbunny> dav1d: imagine 1 chunk has lots of redstone/entities/metaentities/etc and others are lightweight
12:16 < pbunny> how will you group them?
12:16 < pbunny> they 'do basically the same'
12:16 < dav1d> would have needed to divide each bigger step into independend steps, then feed the pool these tasks..
12:17 < pbunny> my balancer will detect the high overhead of thread with heavy chunk and gradually move random(?) chunks out of him to other threads until its workload is of acceptable % or only 1 chunk remains
12:17 < dav1d> make a safe way of reading block data, then a thread e.g. redstone, entities ... 
12:17 < pbunny> so in the end there will be 1 thread with this chunk only, and second thread with other chunks
12:18 < dav1d> but let them handle the whole world instead of a limited number of chunks, this also gets rid of redstone crossing borders
12:18 < dav1d> also, 1 thread per chunk? 
12:18 < pbunny> dav1d: 'handling the whole world' is the slowest part of it.
12:18 < dav1d> 144 chunks per player
12:18 < dav1d> you know that?
12:18 < pbunny> dav1d: no. do you read me?
12:18 < pbunny> its only for now, for debugging
12:18 < dav1d> then I dont understand it
12:18 < dav1d> well, let's say 144 chunks / thread
12:18 < dav1d> (radius around player)
12:19 < pbunny> i imagine running thread count that is similar or equal to CPU cores count
12:19 < dav1d> 100 players → 100 threads
12:19 < dav1d> oh yeah your pool
12:19 < pbunny> there is not much point in having threads count > CPU cores count i think
12:19 < dav1d> but then I'd rather have one thread per job instead of messing with pools
12:19 < pbunny> dav1d: like what job?
12:19 < dav1d> pbunny: there is, e.g. makes -j flag
12:19 < pbunny> wheat growth?
12:20 < dav1d> cores*2+1
12:20 < pbunny> thanks cap
12:20 < dav1d> this is the recommended value
12:20 < dav1d> pbunny: redstone calculations and shit
12:20 < dav1d> one thread
12:20 < pbunny> dav1d: i may use genetic algorithms to determine the optimal threads count
12:20 < dav1d> entities another
12:20 < pbunny> ( they will be spawned / killed on the fly )
12:20 < pbunny> dav1d: well entities thread will be screwed once you have like 100000 entities
12:21 < pbunny> because it will run on single CPU core
12:21 < pbunny> it won't scale
12:21 < pbunny> on other hand, per-chunk thread pools scale perfectly
12:21 < pbunny> just add CPU cores and performance grows
12:21 < dav1d> entity thread, redstone thread, ... at the moment you have more tasks than CPU cores, it doesn't matter, everything will be "slow"
12:21 < dav1d> "just add CPU cores" ...
12:22 < dav1d> well good luck
12:22 < pbunny> yeah, like upgrading CPUs
12:22 < dav1d> it makes things a whole lot harder
12:22 < pbunny> dav1d: in first version of my server i tried to do exactly as you describe now
12:22 < pbunny> but i understood soon enough that it won't scale
12:23 < pbunny> some of my entities (commander ones) will even use neural networks for decisions, they can be quite cpu-intensive
12:23 < dav1d> you probably use the wrong language then
12:23 < pbunny> no
12:24 < dav1d> there are other languages which provide exactly what you need
12:24 < dav1d> which are even designed for i
12:24 < dav1d> *it
12:24 < pbunny> for what?
12:24 < pbunny> dav1d: imagine there is no redstone in your world
12:24 < pbunny> redstone thread will then be empty
12:24 < pbunny> it will do nothing
12:24 < dav1d> clojure probably or definitly erlang!
12:24 < pbunny> ...
12:25 < dav1d> maybe even Go
12:25 < dav1d> but nothing compares to erlang threads, from what I know
12:25 < dav1d> clonejo: btw. how is your erlang server doing? :)
12:26 < pbunny> i prefer pthreads, thx
12:26 < dav1d> pbunny: an erlang thread is something completly different
12:26 < dav1d> pbunny: you looked at existing threadpool implementations?
12:26 < pbunny> i don't see anything difficult in implementing thread pool
12:27 < pbunny> will probably take 5 minutes
12:27 < dav1d> :(
12:29 < dav1d> doing it correctly isn't trivial (also not that hard), but you oversee something very easily, which will cause you headaches later
12:30 < pbunny> i.e. what?
12:30 < dav1d> well, a very basic threadpool
12:30 < dav1d> the D implementation has 4.5k lines
12:30 < pbunny> ...
12:30 < dav1d> (including comments and unittests)
12:30 < dav1d> which I recommend...
12:31 < pbunny> i will just time the execution time of every loop in subthread of world thread
12:31 < pbunny> world thread will then balance chunks 
12:31 < dav1d> was just a recommendation
12:31 < dav1d> do whatever you want
12:31 < pbunny> i.e. move chunks from slow threads to fast threads
12:31 < dav1d> and how will you handle chunk borders?
12:31 < pbunny> .....
12:32 < dav1d> e.g. sheep walking across, redstoneline going 100 chunks in length
12:32 < pbunny> safelock() i linked to earlier
12:32 < dav1d> oh that was your problem
12:32 < pbunny> entity migration is already working, valgrind drd is happy
12:33 <+ammar2> pbunny: is your block storage implementation totally thread safe?
12:33 < pbunny> ammar2: yes
12:34 < pbunny> ammar2: http://dump.bitcheese.net/texts/umefihi/C
12:35 <+md_5>         if (m_sDestNick.AsLower() == sLine.Token(4).AsLower())
12:35 <+md_5> oops
12:35 <+md_5> #ifdef	__cplusplus
12:35 <+md_5> extern "C" {
12:35 <+md_5> What is this, I dont even, why
12:35 <+ammar2> oh man, that timing overhead is really gonna kill you
12:35 <+md_5> pick a standard and stick to it
12:35 <+md_5> plz
12:36 <+md_5> unsigned char blocktype[16][16][16][16];
12:36 <+md_5> 4 dimensions
12:36 <+md_5> am I missing something ammar2 
12:36 < pbunny> thats what mc client uses
12:36 < dav1d> xyz?
12:36 < pbunny> i use the same format so i can just compress it and send
12:36 <+ammar2> md_5: beats me
12:36 <+md_5> xyzq?
12:36 < pbunny> md_5: first is chunk in chunk column
12:36 < pbunny> y/16
12:36 <+md_5> dafaq is the 4th dimension
12:36 <+ammar2> oh its an entire chunk
12:36 < dav1d> oh
12:36 <+clonejo> dav1d: pretty slow atm. Can't find much motivation :-/
12:36 < dav1d> clonejo: same for BraLa :(
12:37 <+ammar2> md_5: column, x, y, z
12:37 < dav1d> clonejo: wanted to rewrite it so engine looks like the cool minecraft animations
12:37 <+clonejo> hehe
12:37 < pbunny> ammar2: position in column
12:37 < dav1d> clonejo: but meh, would be relativly slow, and tbh I dont have the knowledge to implement it, so it would take me quite some time
12:38 < pbunny> ammar2: well timing overhead will appear only when trylock fails
12:38 < pbunny> that won't happen often i think
12:38 < dav1d> clonejo: mainly light and shadows (with transparency!)
12:39 < dav1d> blur and such stuff is easy
12:39 < dav1d> relativly simple shader, same goes with fog
12:39 < dav1d> antialiasing etc. p..
12:39 < dav1d> *pp.
12:39 < dav1d> clonejo: btw. when does your next semester start?
12:39 <+clonejo> dav1d: It already started last week.
12:40 < dav1d> clonejo: ah, had my first test last week, already :(
12:40 < dav1d> next one today -.-
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16:04 < shoghicp> wooo
16:04 < shoghicp> Brandon15811: has timeout xD
16:04 < shoghicp> shit.
16:04 < shoghicp> Incorrect channel
16:04 < shoghicp> same user xD
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17:42 < Not-001> [mineflayer] superjoe30 pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±6] http://git.io/dRvCdA
17:42 < Not-001> [mineflayer] zuazo 7f071f8 - minecraft-protocol 0.10.0: click "shift" renamed to "mode"
17:42 < Not-001> [mineflayer] superjoe30 0231996 - Merge pull request #150 from onddo/mc-proto-click-mode minecraft-protocol 0.10.0: click "shift" renamed to "mode"
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22:58 < TkTech> Matvei: Bah, I have to tab so many times now to get to your name!
22:59 < TkTech> Matvei: DigitalOcean has also been getting decent reviews and is pretty cheap, especially if you have some volume of traffic.
22:59 < TkTech> Matvei: I would still recommend AWS over anything else (but Rackspace) for long, long term, stable hosting.
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23:16 < roblabla> DigitalOcean is really good
23:17 < roblabla> I use it myself, pretty pleasant experience up till now.
23:19 < TkTech> The problem with it is that no one really knows how $5 is sustainable. Most people think it's a lure to get people signed up and the price will eventually get bumped.
23:20 < TkTech> That, and the inability to buy more bandwith.
23:20 < TkTech> If you get extremely popular and hit the top-tier 10TB limit you're paying $0.02/gb over that.
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23:37 < roblabla> that's probably how they sustain :P
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14:28 < pbunny> what problems can arise if i remove chunk threads sync to world ticks?
14:28 < pbunny> so they will run independent of ticks
14:32 < pbunny> that will actually result in tickless world
14:47 < roblabla> o_O
14:47 < roblabla> redstone
14:47 < roblabla> Do I need to say more ?
14:48 < roblabla> :P
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14:54 < pbunny> don't see problems with redstone
14:54 < pbunny> threads will still run with same speed
14:55 < pbunny> i.e. 20 iterations per second
14:55 < dav1d> you can measure realtime with redstone
14:55 < dav1d> so you would have to update redstone every tick anyways
14:55 < pbunny> i will update it every tick anyway
14:56 < dav1d> "that will actually result in tickless world"
14:56 < pbunny> well, every chunk thread will have its own ticks timing
14:56 < pbunny> but they will run at same speed
14:58 < pbunny> the only 'issue' i see is that sometimes stuff in adjactent chunks may happen by 0-49999ms later than in current chunk
14:58 < pbunny> and by ms i mean microseconds
15:00 < jast> so you mean μs
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15:18 < roblabla> pbunny: what's the goal you're trying to reach by doing that ?
15:19 < pbunny> roblabla: smoothup cpu usage
15:19 < pbunny> and reduce locking waits
15:20 < jast> threads aren't guaranteed to actually run in precisely those time slices you want
15:20 < jast> it's easily possible for your thread to start departing more and more from the timing you imagined
15:20 < pbunny> by time chunk threads will shift themselves by lock-waiting, and then they will have to wait less
15:20 < pbunny> jast: detecting time-slice-fails is another thing
15:20 < jast> unless you want to write your own scheduler
15:21 < pbunny> jast: but even with sync, they are not guaranteed to finish their loops in time
15:21 < pbunny> that's another problem
15:21 < pbunny> however, they will usually slowdown the nearby chunks too if there's something slow going on in them by keeping mutexes locked
15:22 < pbunny> i will detect that in world thread, and then hold non-slowed chunks to give slowed ones additional iterations
15:22 < pbunny> not best solution though
15:23 < pbunny> or maybe it is better to let them run as they can, just lightening the slow threads by assiging their chunks to other threads
15:24 < pbunny> i.e. if somebody will screw a chunk with redstone, only that chunk will be screwed
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20:24 < dav1d> clonejo: offscreen rendering with surf!?
20:24 < dav1d> (my next idea :P)
20:25 <+clonejo> Was war surf noch gleich?
20:25 <+clonejo> oh, sry
20:25 < dav1d> clonejo: http://surf.suckless.org
20:26 < dav1d> clonejo: minimalistic webkit/gtk based browser
20:26 <+clonejo> If you can get it to draw to an OpenGL context
20:26 < dav1d> yeah that's the hard part
20:27 < dav1d> also injecting keyboard mouse etc.
20:27 < dav1d> never done anything before with webkit
20:27 < dav1d> so might be ehm interesting
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20:49 < eddyb> dav1d: that looks like a cool WebKit wrapper
20:49 < eddyb> Chromium's Skia gfx platform can draw to anything
20:50 < dav1d> eddyb: it is :)
20:50 < dav1d> suckless stuff in general is awesome
20:50 < dav1d> eddyb: chromium is maybe too fat
20:50 < eddyb> but GTK won't get you as far as Skia
20:50 < dav1d> well it definitly is
20:50 < dav1d> that's right
20:50 < eddyb> hmm
20:51 < dav1d> but I looked into coding it with chromium ... I had no idea where to start
20:51 < eddyb> maybe when Blink gets stable, you can use that instead
20:51 < dav1d> and gave up after ~3 days with no line written
20:51 < dav1d> eddyb: and blink is?
20:52 < eddyb> dav1d: basically Google decided they had to fork WebKit and remove all the parts that they don't need
20:52 < dav1d> oh it's new rendering engine :O
20:52 < dav1d> yeah I knew that
20:52 < dav1d> and they call it blink?
20:52 < eddyb> yepp
20:52 < eddyb> Blink+V8 might be the way to go
20:52 < dav1d> TIL
20:52 < eddyb> I'm not sure what else you would need from Chromium. like, I don't think Skia is integrated in Blink yet
20:53 <+Prf_Jakob> There was also the fact that Chromium/Webkit had two javascript engines
20:53 -!- roblabla is now known as roblabla|Away
20:53 <+Prf_Jakob> two different threading system
20:53 <+Prf_Jakob> s
20:53 < eddyb> yeah, JSC was the largest part of WebKit they removed
20:54 < eddyb> Prf_Jakob: actually, they are multi-process architectures <insert more technobabble>
20:54 <+Prf_Jakob> eddyb: hehe right
20:55 < dav1d> eddyb: do they plan to release *any* documentation?
20:55 < eddyb> aren't there doxygen docs for Chromium?
20:56 < dav1d> digging through the source I haven't seen anything helpful
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20:57 < eddyb> dav1d: http://www.chromium.org/blink#TOC-API-Owners apparently they want stricter rules about APIs so that could be a clue
20:58 < eddyb> dav1d: have you seen this before? https://code.google.com/p/chromiumembedded/
20:58 < dav1d> well, I think I'll go with webkitgtk
20:58 < dav1d> eddyb: yes, doesnt work on linux
20:59 < eddyb> huh?
20:59 < dav1d> eddyb: https://github.com/Dav1dde/cef
20:59 < dav1d> eddyb: offscreen rendering
20:59 < dav1d> I made fucking complete bindings for both versions, finding out it doesnt work
20:59 < eddyb> April 8, 2013: Version 3.1364.1188 is the first binary release for 32-bit and 64-bit Linux. In addition to the changes described below for version 3.1364.1094 it includes the following enhancements and bug fixes.
20:59 < eddyb> ok, so CEF is bad
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21:29 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 25 commits to snapshot [+19/-0/±93] http://git.io/H2kAIA
21:29 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 67b41de - Improved metadata dictionary usage
21:29 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 16cf484 - Fixed metadata encoding for strings
21:29 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 6f0a7f7 - Removed test code from ItemEntity
21:29 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 64684a3 - Added internal default constructors to metadata items, fixes deserialization
21:29 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 01a0ad6 - Changed metadata dictionary decoder to use correct metadata entry constructor
21:30 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 73fbbd1 - Changed visibility of constructors in metadata entry classes
21:30 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] ammaraskar b270852 - Fix stair orientation (closes #146)
21:30 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn b9f5d58 - Made stair up/down orientation use cursor position
21:30 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 81365e1 - Fixed door orientation, closes #144
21:30 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 612462f - Fixed hunger/eating issues, closes #137
21:30 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn aabfdde - Added read-only world classes for clients
21:30 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn a7e85ca - Added ability to save read only worlds, unload chunks
21:30 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 53f7fdd - Parse chunk packets in client
21:30 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 94c0d9d - Fix bug with 0x38 packets without light
21:30 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn df2f710 - Added ChunkRecieved event
21:30 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 6932fd6 - Update README.md
21:30 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn a5b926f - Fixed various bugs with Linux/Mac support
21:30 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 9d2eb61 - Merge branch 'master' of github.com:SirCmpwn/Craft.Net into HEAD
21:30 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 28edb02 - Updated README to mention issues with certs on mono
21:30 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn cf1896f - Fixed bugs with compiling on mono
21:30 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 206dfd7 - Fixed hardness and drop for diamond ore
21:30 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 34654cd - Changed visibility of AcceptConnectionAsync
21:30 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 7dcdfc8 - Added to Craft.Net.Data.Level to allow for singleplayer levels to be saved
21:30 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn c50bb26 - Update README.md
21:30 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 28052d4 - Update protocol version, add new blocks/items
21:42 < TkTech> I *think* I'm going to set a commit limit on this channel...
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22:10 < superjoe> it's almost like SirCmpwn is still with us
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22:29 < SL37> Hey, when a server is sending its 0xFD packet how does it create it server id?
22:29 < SL37> Is it just a randomly generated string?
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22:48 <+ammar2> TkTech: wikibot seems to be dead
22:48 <+ammar2> just made a change to pre-release page and it didn't fire off
22:48 < TkTech> I shall poke
22:51 < TkTech> ammar2: Gave it a restart, see if it works on the next change
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22:51 <+ammar2> all right, thanks.
22:51 < TkTech> (That's a super sketchy bot, if someone wants to improve it, it's on github)
23:00 < Not-001> [wiki.vg] Edit by SirCmpwn to Pre-release protocol -> http://tinyurl.com/d9t3sr2
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23:06 < Not-001> [wiki.vg] Edit by SirCmpwn to Pre-release protocol -> http://tinyurl.com/cn4lyxz
23:07 < Not-001> [wiki.vg] Edit by SirCmpwn to Pre-release protocol -> http://tinyurl.com/c3b3nz9
23:07 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to snapshot [+0/-0/±6] http://git.io/f1WDeA
23:07 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn e187742 - In-progress protocol updates
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23:21 <+md_5> <pbunny> [22:49:41] threads will still run with same speed
23:21 <+md_5> plz
23:21 <+md_5> how many threads
23:21 <+md_5> outline thread moel
23:21 <+md_5> model
23:21 <+md_5> if there are more than 24 threads in total.... why?
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23:42 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to snapshot [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/r4AXow
23:42 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn b43d7dc - Added another changed packet
23:43 < Not-001> [wiki.vg] Edit by SirCmpwn to Protocol -> http://tinyurl.com/ckf7zat
23:44 < Not-001> [wiki.vg] Edit by SirCmpwn to Pre-release protocol -> http://tinyurl.com/c6jwq5b
23:47 < Not-001> [wiki.vg] Edit by Ceiru to Pre-release protocol -> http://tinyurl.com/cfgcxl3
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23:52 < Not-001> [wiki.vg] Edit by Ammaraskar to Pre-release protocol -> http://tinyurl.com/cuz5gm8
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00:17 < Not-001> [wiki.vg] Edit by SirCmpwn to Library List -> http://tinyurl.com/d2cl9j3
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06:09 < SinZ> new launcher is cool...
06:10 < TkTech> SinZ: Screenshots anywhere?
06:14 < SinZ> It currently only supports 13w16a
06:15 < SinZ> (on the mojang blog)
06:15 < SinZ> Launcher is slower than the old one, because it downloads all the assets one at a time, that Minecraft used to do in the background
06:18 < SinZ> oooh, includes a JSON file of all the libraries it uses, and what not to include from them
06:27 < SinZ> even a pretty JSON file on the download server with a version list
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07:42 < pbunny> md_5: threads count isn't fixed, i will spawn the optimal number
07:44 < pbunny> for debugging purposes i use thread for every chunk
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11:13 < Not-001> [wiki.vg] Edit by Md 5 to Pre-release protocol -> http://tinyurl.com/cya5b35
11:54 <+md_5> Grum just saw:   public void a(DataInput paramDataInput), thanks a lot!
11:54 <+md_5> much appreciated.
11:54 < Grum> yw
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--- Log closed ven. avril 19 17:59:38 2013
--- Log opened ven. avril 19 17:59:48 2013
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19:23 < dav1d> yay, let's do some coding in C
19:24 < dav1d> let's see if I still enjoy the pain :)
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