05:34 -!- TkTech changed the topic of #mcdevs to: A haunt for developers working on projects related to Minecraft | Website & Rules: http://mcdevs.org | Wiki: http://wiki.vg | Channel is publicly logged as of Feb.25/13
05:34 < umby24> It took several code examples for me to get a basic grasp..
05:34 -!- mode/#mcdevs [-o TkTech] by ChanServ
05:35 < umby24> and even then i ended up just translating someone elses code to my language of choice at the time.
05:35 < umby24> I was actually pretty close to one part of it, was just missing a setting or two.
05:36 < SinZ> TkTech: Link to the logs / statistics?
05:36 < TkTech> SinZ: Not up yet, a beta feature of Not-001.
05:36 < SinZ> ah
05:37 < TkTech> Pretty logs optionally available to anyone (must be enabled by a channel op), and full text searching for select channels (limited resources)
05:37 < SinZ> will have fun playing around with that in my channel <3
05:39 < TkTech> (Sponsored by http://myredis.com / WedTM)
05:39 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: very cloudy page.
05:40 < SinZ> WedTM is cool like that
05:40 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: I think that's a joke but I'm missing it
05:40 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: no I just thought the page looked simple and modern
05:40 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: Also, I'm travelling all this week. Know the last date to upgrade battlecruisers?
05:40 < SinZ> good to see Spout is using notifico now
05:41 < TkTech> Yeah, spout went all-in, nice little spike on the projects graph.
05:41 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: well sometime in summer, but training to level 5 takes 25 days (just for 4 to 5 fully min/maxed).
05:42 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: 25 days for BATTLECRUISERS? Really? 
05:42 < TkTech> For battleships, okay. Seems a bit excessive for battlecruisers...
05:42 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: 20 or 25, my memory fail me.
05:44 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: you also want to have all the racial cruisers at 3
05:44 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: I have that already I think for Gallente and Amarr 
05:46 < SinZ> TkTech: how does a channel op enable the logging?
05:46 < SinZ> well, how will a channel op enable logging
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05:46 < TkTech> SinZ: You cannot at the moment.
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05:46 < TkTech> SinZ: But you just need to have your networks version of +o (as specified in the 005 message), and the bot needs to be in the channel.
05:47 < TkTech> SinZ: Then you can PM it and "set logging 1" or as a shortcut "enable logging"
05:47 < SinZ> ah, ok
05:48 < TkTech> You'll get a URL that looks like http://n.tkte.ch/s/channels/irc.freenode.net/<channel>
05:48 < TkTech> But I'll allow you to specify a CNAME so you can use your own URL.
05:52 <+Prf_Jakob> sleep time
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06:49 < Gregor> Et voila, encryption is a go ^^
06:49 < Gregor> BEND TO MY CRUEL WILL, MINECRAFT! MUAHAHAHAHA
06:50 < TkTech> He's snapped, he has.
06:50 < TkTech> Gregor: Remember to blog about the problems you encountered :)
06:51 < TkTech> Every dev should blog about every little thing. </opinion>
06:51 < Gregor> I was just about to muse about whether one needs to be registered to edit wiki.vg...
06:51 < TkTech> Gregor: Even better. You can just sign up and edit.
06:52 < Gregor> Other than just "Read the damned docs, Gregor", I only had one hiccup *shrugs*
06:54 < Gregor> I'll also barf up this source somewhere once it's a bit more vetted. Probably the only C+libtomcrypt implementation X-D
06:55 < umby24> could be a good contribution to the wiki as a implementation of the encryption
06:55 < umby24> as a sample for others and all
06:57 < Gregor> I'm doing a somewhat (read: entirely) insane project ^^´, trying to write a protocol-version converter so you can use unequal client and server versions (modulo incompatible features which get scrubbed from the packets).
06:57 < Gregor> But yeah, the handshake.c has a nice, brief description of the encryption (minus online mode) for both client and server handshake :)
06:59 < Not-001> [wiki.vg] Edit by Gregor to Protocol Encryption -> http://tinyurl.com/aedov4r
07:00 < Gregor> Mmm, I see you have spies *sage nod*
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07:07 < umby24> awesome.
07:08 < umby24> blog posting to website and tumblr about minecraft bot: complete.
07:08 < umby24> now for bedtime.
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13:47 <+sadimusi> Gregor: you should talk to pdelvo, he built exactly the same thing
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15:24 <+pdelvo> And it works! :D
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16:04 < Gregor> sadimusi, pdelvo: Yes, I'm aware. But it's in C♯, looks like it's only been tested on Windows/Visual Studio, and I'm not going to be the one to work out all the inevitable bugs making it work on Mono.
16:04 < Gregor> It was my inspiration though X-D
16:04 < jast> a ♯, how fancy
16:04 < Gregor> jast: I do ♥ the Unicode.
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16:06 <+pdelvo> There is a problem related to mono. the encryption. I use .net methods for it which are implemented in mono, but behave different. Using a different library could solve it, but would make it slower
16:06 < jast> yeah, I � Unicode, too
16:07 < Gregor> pdelvo: I'm not placing blame, just being stubbornly anti-Micro$oft. I have poked around the code, to the very limited degree that I know C♯ (which is "I know Java and it's the same language but less stupid")
16:08 < Gregor> Err, C♯ being the "less stupid" in that comparison.
16:08 < jast> of course
16:08 < jast> anyone who isn't completely incidental would agree with that
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16:09 <+pdelvo> please stop this :o Everytime this topic comes up this makes someone cry at the end 
16:09 < Gregor> Heheheh
16:09 < Gregor> I did an internship at Microsoft Research y'know.
16:09 < Gregor> Never Again.™
16:10 < Gregor> Product group decided they didn't like my project and axed it after months of work, pretty much killing the whole experience.
16:10 < Gregor> After that I've pretty much decided I'm not going to touch Microsoft with a seventy-thousand-foot pole.
16:11 < jast> I don't mind making people cry, if it's over something like a programming language
16:13 < edk> making people cry can be necessary
16:13 < edk> especially if they're java programmers
16:13 < Gregor> Anyway, I'm still making the problem worse by not giving two shits whether my C code works on Windows, so I can't take the high ground, only the "if Unix was good enough for grandpa it's good enough for me" grounds.
16:14 <+pdelvo> I warned you! :o
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16:27 < Gregor> I feel like that flamewar ended far too easily.
16:27 < Gregor> So, shall our next subject be religion? Or, more contentiously, operating systems?
16:28 < jast> it's not a flamewar if everyone agrees
16:28 < jast> my least favourite operating system is emacs
16:29 < edk> +1
16:29 < Gregor> Emacs would be a perfectly good operating system if there was a decent text editor for it.
16:29 < edk> Actually, my least favourite OS is mIRC
16:30 < cindy_k> lol
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16:59 < Gregor> Actually, pdelvo: I don't suppose you have or know where to get super-ancient copies of the /server/? Stupidly enough, that's what's been the hardest thing for me in testing. Versions from before b1.8 seem to have vanished from the Internet >_>
17:00 <+pdelvo> hm no sorry :/
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17:02 < Gregor> Beta 1.8 is NOT OLDE ENOUGH ^^
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17:03 <+sadimusi> isn't there a project providing bdiffs for older minecraft versions?
17:03 < Gregor> sadimusi: Only the client, as far as I've been able to tell.
17:03 < Gregor> (That's how I got the client all the way back to indev :) )
17:12 <+pdelvo> but this should be enough. the client knows all packets too. it sends them, or must be able to read them
17:12 < Gregor> Yeah, but the client never, e.g., sends chunk info.
17:13 < Gregor> I've tested with earlier clients, and I can get them to connect to newer servers, but I don't consider that an especially complete test *shrugs*
17:13 < Gregor> Besides, my ultimate goal was a nostalgia-server, not a nostalgia-client ^^´
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18:48 < Not-001> [wiki.vg] Edit by Thinkofdeath to Pre-release protocol -> Error
18:50 < Thinkofdeath> Did I break it?
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19:21 < Valdiralita> hey
19:22 < Valdiralita> md_5: i doubt you care about this but the error log wants me to show this to you: http://hastebin.com/vagopukaco.avrasm
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21:21 <+md_5> Valdiralita hehe, only old versions tell it to show to me personally :p
21:22 < Valdiralita> is a mcpc bukkit version
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23:46 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: Up for a wee little OpenTTD?
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--- Day changed mer. févr. 27 2013
00:00 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: syre
00:00 <+Prf_Jakob> sure*
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00:12 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: Think anyone else is up for it?
00:14 < TkTech> (Your server isn't up)
00:14 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: is for me..
00:14 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: Dynamic IP?
00:14 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: probably what does the address resolve to?
00:14 < TkTech> Nothing
00:15 <+Prf_Jakob> err?
00:15 < TkTech> The IP you gave me last time goes nowhere
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00:19 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: if you want, I can change as well.
00:20 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: It's been awhile, new game okay?
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00:20 <+Prf_Jakob> sure
00:21 <+Prf_Jakob> temperate, snowy or desert?
00:21 < TkTech> Whatever, your choice
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19:21 < rom1504> superjoe: my bot can now avoid bedrock (I used a star with a very simple getNeighbor function) :)
19:22 < superjoe> rom1504, very cool!
19:22 < superjoe> maybe mineflayer-scaffold should be updated to use A*
19:23 < rom1504> but I'm having a problem with water and sand : If the sand fall and water follow it, it seems mineflayer cannot see there is water (and think it is sand)
19:23 < rom1504> I'll try and make a simple test case for this
19:23 < superjoe> I have observed this problem too
19:23 < superjoe> maybe we can find a workaround
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19:25 < rom1504> superjoe: you can look at this code for the avoid bedrock thing : https://github.com/rom1504/rbot/blob/master/avoidBedrock.js , I took the index.js file of mineflayer-navigate and removed a lot of things
19:40 < superjoe> cool
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21:54 < bobness> ..is the inventory setup for the Brewing Stand not known, or just not on the wiki in the Inventory page?
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22:18 <+pdelvo> You could put it there :)
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22:39 < bobness> *nod*  if I can figure it out, I plan to.  I just wasn't sure if the order was known yet.  
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23:26 < Valdiralita> where is SirCmpwn? havent seen him the last days ...
23:27 < edk> He's banned from this channel, iirc
23:27 < edk> yep
23:27 < Valdiralita> okay ..
23:27 < Valdiralita> why?
23:28 < dexter0> He is still in #craft.net
23:28 < Valdiralita> thanks
23:29 < edk> I can dig out the log if you really want, but the condensed version is "the same reason he's banned everywhere else"
23:30 < Valdiralita> nah, its ok
23:30 < Valdiralita> thanks anyway
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--- Day changed jeu. févr. 28 2013
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03:32 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: I have never imported contacts, we have no people in common, I've never mentioned you; yet Twitter still recommends following you/
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04:11 <+AndrewPH> TkTech: facebook has managed to do this with people that I have seen once, maybe twice, on the internet, who have literally nothing in common with me.
04:31 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: scary...
04:34 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: not even fCraft?
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04:35 < dexter0> Are the channel logs available yet?
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05:55 < bobness> When replying to a rejection packet, do I just send the same packet back?
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09:39 < Not-001> [wiki.vg] Edit by Dx to Protocol -> http://tinyurl.com/boozp2j
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09:53 < dx> huh
09:55 < dx> i know i don't usually pay a lot of attention to this channel, but it's the first time i see Not-001 reporting edits
09:56 < dx> and looking at my logs, they are rather rare lately
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11:24 <+md_5> dx been going for a month or 2
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18:04 < SupaYoshi> Hey
18:05 < SupaYoshi> The mark2 channel is empty
18:05 < SupaYoshi> Im using mark2, howeever my backup files are only 69 bytes big when they are saved after a shutdown?
18:05 < SupaYoshi> How can i config the backup for mark2?
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19:21 < dx> >Channel is publicly logged as of Feb.25/13
19:21 < dx> exactly what i needed :D
19:22 < dx> wait, damn, i need logs for exactly that day.. and i can't find a public link
19:22 < dx> oh well, pastebin
19:22 < Gregor> Is it really "publicly" logged if we don't know where these supposedly "public" logs are...
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19:34 < Not-001> [wiki.vg] Edit by Dx to Protocol -> http://tinyurl.com/cp8desn
19:34 < dx> damn i'm going to be late for the doctor, just because i felt it was needed to clarify a wiki change
19:34  * dx grabs a stack of ender pearls to reach the place faster
19:35 < Gregor> <dx> Oof oof oof oof oof oof oof oof oof oof ugh.  * dx hit the ground too hard.
19:36 < dx> ;_;
19:37 < dx> oh, before i leave, if someone finds any information about minecraft realms, post it please
19:38 < dx> mostly, where it is hosted and if there are any clues of particular infrastructure
19:39 < dx> the user interface to create those servers is so dumbed down that they
19:39 < dx> *they've probably found a way to make servers scale magically infinitely
19:44 < dexter0> If it is some sort of Mojang provided hosting, I wonder how popular it will be if it does not support mods.
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19:56 < Gregor> Hm, how were those given access notified of their access, I wonder...
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20:41 < Morrolan> dexter0 - Quite popular with families who just want a server to play on, without having to, well, know how to host a server?
20:42 < dexter0> good point
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22:25 < Not-001> [wiki.vg] Edit by Sleaker to Pre-release protocol -> Error
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22:43 < Not-001> [wiki.vg] Edit by Maxpowuh to ChargedMinersClassic -> Error
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23:39 < Zatorg> has anyone tried implementing a differential backup solution for MC maps? i.e. have the original mapdata -> do diffs of it -> update the original once in a while. this would make so much sense if the map was a pregen'ed large one (e.g. 20k x 20k)
23:39 < Zatorg> (we're preparing to start up an smp server with a rather large map.)
23:40 < Zatorg> simply doing binary diffs like a good sysadmin makes sense. i tried googling, but have not found anything interesting with minecraft as one of the keywords. so might use a generic solution. was maybe hoping there'd be a plugin for that.
23:40 < jast> yeah, I started implementing that, but got bored
23:40 < jast> it's pretty tediout because you have to actually parse NBT and stuff
23:41 < Zatorg> thing is, as i understand from very limited exposure to its code, bukkit / vanilla mc (bukkit uses vanilla code in that part i think) already updates only the chunks that were changed since last write.
23:41 < edk> I would have thought the map format bit would be the annoying one
23:41 < jast> well, you can _mostly_ ignore the map format if you just create binary diffs
23:41 < jast> except you need to uncompress the chunks first, but that's not terribly complicated
23:41 < edk> well rsync is clever enough to do that all by its little old self, it can tell when files haven't changed at all
23:41 < edk> iirc
23:42 < Zatorg> yes, uncompressing for doing binary diff would be necessary
23:42 < edk> yeah
23:42 < jast> rsync can't magically figure out what to uncompress before generating deltas
23:42 < edk> I mean the files that aren't changed
23:42 < jast> yeah, but files are by region. so if a region changes, chances are you need to store the full region
23:42 < edk> mm, true.
23:43 < edk> hell, you could do time machine's shitty hardlinking trick if it weren't for that, I guess
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23:44 < edk> <jast> yeah, I started implementing that, but got bored <- there are pretty much unlimited project ideas of which I could say that
23:44 < edk> uh, take that sentence, add grammar to it, then read it
23:45 < jast> I had a few thousand lines of code before I quit
23:45 < jast> not terribly exciting code, though
23:45 < Zatorg> jast: were you writing it as a plugin, or external tool?
23:45 < jast> tool
23:45 < edk> what would it be a plugin to?
23:45 < jast> hell will freeze over before I write for the JVM
23:45 < jast> unless someone pays me
23:45 < Zatorg> edk: automated differential backups - well a bukkit plugin in my case :)
23:46 < jast> you could wire the external tool to a filesystem watcher
23:46 < jast> minimal overhead
23:46 < Zatorg> jast: i'm writing for Android, can't say i enjoy java though, but..
23:46 < Zatorg> mhm
23:46 < edk> what two things do backups protect against?
23:46 < jast> oh yeah, there's that
23:46 < jast> I've been considering doing android stuff
23:46 < jast> perhaps if I use scala or something, it'll be slightly less aggravating
23:47 < edk> I considered doing android stuff, then I tried to start making an app and decided I couldn't be bothered to java
23:47 < Zatorg> oh sorry, didn't add one other crucial bit: for me, any backups => automatically imply - offsite backups.
23:47 < edk> sure
23:47 < edk> how is that crucial in the context of whether or not it should be a bukkit plugin?
23:48 < Zatorg> it would be a map autosaver and backup system two-in-one (not sure of phrasing)
23:48 < edk> to me, the issue with a bukkit plugin is that if something goes wrong with the server, it's also gone wrong with the thing making the backup
23:48 < edk> minecraft already has autosave
23:48 < Zatorg> true, true..
23:48 < jast> in other news... been compiling rust for an hour or so
23:48 < jast> still going strong
23:48 < edk> rust looks yucky
23:48 < Zatorg> edk: thing is, i'm really new to mc dev stuff. but as i understand, one firstly needs to stop autosaving before attempting to back up mapdata, as what's on disk at a given atomic point in time is not necessarily
23:49 < Zatorg> consistent.
23:49 < edk> supposedly you can write bukkit plugins with python, which is nice
23:49 < edk> Zatorg, that's what server wrappers are for
23:49 < Zatorg> but i agree, bukkit fails => hells breaks
23:49 < conehead> Not particularly interesting, but a list given by the Minecraft Realms create dialog of server locations you can select from http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=CdxuxRnk
23:49 < jast> the last backup solution I had to deal with that was written in python was full of bugs
23:49 < jast> you know, the "doesn't actually write the backups anywhere" kinds of bugs
23:50 < edk> that seems a problem with the person writing the software
23:50 < jast> also the "eats craploads of RAM for big files" kinds
23:50 < edk> as far as I know, python doesn't have any inherent problems with writing files
23:50 < Zatorg> conehead: hehe searching for keywords 'minecraft distributed <..>' brought me to http://cyber.felk.cvut.cz/research/theses/papers/240.pdf ("Distributed Server for the Game `Minecraft' - Czech Technical..") -> #mcdevs was mentioned in that paper.. that's how i got here.
23:50 < jast> sshh, I'm ranting here
23:50 < edk> oh ok then
23:51 < jast> so, anyway, don't use duplicity
23:51 < edk> that should be easy enough
23:52 < edk> since I'd never heard of it up until now
23:52 < Zatorg> i agree, writing an mc plugin for backups doesn't sound like a clever idea. however - citing self:
23:52 < Zatorg> "thing is, as i understand from very limited exposure to its code, bukkit / vanilla mc (bukkit uses vanilla code in that part i think) already updates only the chunks that were changed since last write."
23:52 < edk> I'm not sure how that helps you
23:52 < Zatorg> can anybody bother to succintly explain to me how MC server saves mapdata to disk?
23:52 < jast> what I'd care about most for map backups is incremental backups
23:53 < jast> so, that helps exactly not at all
23:53 < Zatorg> jast: well then you rely on you having all the previous diffs no?
23:53 < edk> if you have a brain, you take a full backup every now and then
23:53 < Zatorg> (which of course makes sense)
23:53 < Zatorg> ofc
23:53 < edk> you can also diff backwards from now instead of forwards from the beginning of time
23:54 < jast> yeah, like rdiff-backup does
23:54 < jast> oh fuck me
23:54 < Zatorg> ok, i'm new. damn it, i should know that..
23:54 < jast> the notebook's battery charger has, once again, decided to discharge the battery instead of charging it
23:55 < edk> that sounds less than ideal
23:55 < edk> and by "less than ideal" i mean really shitty
23:56 < jast> at least this time I noticed before it died
23:56 < jast> okay, still deciding to discharge after I removed the charger for a moment
23:57 < edk> your notebook's power management doesn't sound like the brightest of sparks
23:58 < jast> my 
23:58 < jast> (gah)
23:58 < jast> my money is on "hardware is getting senile"
--- Day changed ven. mars 01 2013
00:00 < jast> well screw that
00:00 < jast> good night
00:00 < Zatorg> dmesg | tail might have something to tell you no? maybe not..
00:00 < Zatorg> nn
00:01 < jast> no, ACPI thinks it's charging
00:01 < Zatorg> oh well then, yes, maybe senile :)
00:01 < jast> I'm fairly sure it's a defect in the battery itself
00:01 -!- Thinkofdeath is now known as Thinkofdeath_off
00:01 < jast> I just just chuck this piece of junk and get something new, I suppose
00:01 < jast> ... and now I'm actually leaving. :)
00:02 < edk> bye
00:03 < TkTech> Gregor: Funny enough, you'd know if you read the logs.
00:03 < TkTech> Gregor: That's up there as a disclaimer due to freenode policies to notify of any logging.
00:04 < TkTech> Gregor: It's a beta feature of the Not-001 bot not yet available to the public.
00:05 < TkTech> Zatorg: Neat, thanks for that paper link. Always interested in academia + minecraft
00:05 < edk> there are probably like a million people with private logs anyway, I don't really see why it's such a big deal
00:05 < Zatorg> (something something dead horse) i'd simply be interested to utilize the fact that MC might already know which chunks need saving - so a backup system could e.g. only save changed chunks since last save.. but might be a dangerous way to do it like that
00:05 < Zatorg> indeed TkTech :)
00:05 < edk> and by "like a million" I mean not really anything like that amount
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00:05 < edk> Zatorg, you'd have to get pretty deep in minecraft's guts to do that, I think
00:05 < edk> bukkit doesn't expose the needed API
00:05 < TkTech> dx: It's reported 205 wiki changes over 3 months
00:06 < Zatorg> i think i got the part where it does that edk
00:06 < Zatorg> bukkit seems to use native code in that part
00:06 < TkTech> dx: Minus a week or two where that script wasn't running
00:06 < Zatorg> at least that's what the comments indicate
00:06 < Zatorg> i'm just.. not feeling confident, thought someone else might have tried sth like that.
00:07 < Zatorg> and by 'native code' i mean obscurely named variables and disassembled raw code
00:07 < Zatorg> but might totally off the mark here.
00:07 < Zatorg> *might be
00:08 < Zatorg> hm drunk gf back from work, multitasking, not good
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00:43 < Gregor> TkTech: You should update the topic to read "Channel is publicly logged as of Feb.25/13: Check the log for the URL"
00:49 < Kyle> Usually, if the channel isn't +s, I assume someone is publically logging
00:49 < Kyle> even then, someone is privately logging, 
00:49 < Gregor> Well, everyone logs privately *shrugs*
00:49 < Kyle> It's really no difference, because I'll post sniplets of logs on demand :p
00:50 < Gregor> Yup.
00:50 < Gregor> I have a public logbot that I got VISCERAL complaints for bringing into a channel (with the chanop's permission!) once >_O
00:50 < Kyle> heh
00:51 < Gregor> I've vowed to publish my private logs as a nice "eff you" once it's a few years in.
01:02 < TkTech> Kyle: Doesn't matter what you assume, freenode rules are freenode rules :)
01:03 < TkTech> (And we are a registered freenode group)
01:05 < Kyle> TkTech: they arent rules
01:05 < Kyle> that specific part is a guideline
01:05 < Kyle> recommended 
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01:33 < TkTech> Kyle: You seem to be right, but I've been in #freenode long enough to see some pretty strong reactions to doing it without notice.
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05:53 < SinZ> is it me, or has b.wiki.vg not been checking the newer snapshots
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06:28 < Not-001> [wiki.vg] Edit by Umby24 to Client List -> http://tinyurl.com/bzv4dmo
06:28 < umby24> ^ one more coming
06:29 < umby24> forgot to add link
06:29 < Not-001> [wiki.vg] Edit by Umby24 to Client List -> http://tinyurl.com/bfljq6p
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07:27 < lahwran> hey folksies
07:27 < lahwran> I'd like to write a clientside logging tool that logs chat, and maybe other stuff, how hard would this be to do in python/twisted as a proxy?
07:28 < lahwran> assuming close familiarity with python but near zero familiarity with mc's protocol
07:28 < lahwran> I know it uses packets with ids
07:28 < lahwran> that's it
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07:38 < umby24> hm.
07:39 < umby24> http://wiki.vg/Client_List
07:39 < umby24> a few open source bots there that support current minecraft that are written in python
07:39 < umby24> two of which with twisted
07:39 < umby24> may give you some idea
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08:14 < lahwran> sweet, twistedbot looks viable
08:20 < lahwran> hm, I might also try spout ... I heard it's coming along pretty well
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12:28 < eddyb> Alan: the wiki linked in the topic has lots of resources to get you started :P
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13:10 < Not-001> [wiki.vg] Edit by Wulfspider to Client List -> http://tinyurl.com/c2rovgb
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13:35 < Not-001> [wiki.vg] Edit by SinZ to Client List -> http://tinyurl.com/cfjctnd
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03:15 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: Going to ream my ISP when I get home on Sunday.
03:16 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: Got the bill yesterday, $ 285.36 
03:24 < SinZ> 0.o
03:24 < SinZ> dafuq did you do
03:25 < TkTech> It's funny, because their own website shows drastically different figures than this bill.
03:25 < TkTech> It also says "Bandwith notification sent in the last three months: NONE"
03:25 < TkTech> Normal month-to-month service is $118.59
03:26 < TkTech> (This is internet only, with a 300GB "cap")
03:26 < TkTech> Each GB above that is $1
03:26 < TkTech> The bill claims I used 147.58GB above that cap.
03:26 < TkTech> +$40 in random fees
03:26 < SinZ> should of been warned about being close to your cap
03:27 < TkTech> Apparently, 380,567.14 bytes (figure reported on my router and their website) is 300GB + 147.58GB
03:27 < TkTech> Right. Hence, "Usage notifications and alerts sent over the last three months: NONE"
03:27 < TkTech> And why I'm going to ream them out when I get home.
03:28 < TkTech> Er, MB, ovbviously.
04:01 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: lol wut
04:04 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: Welcome to Canada
04:11 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: insane..
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07:18 < Connor1301> hmm
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07:43 < Connor1301> whats up
07:44 < SinZ> nm, u
07:46 < Connor1301> nm, u?
07:47 < SinZ> nothing much
07:47 < Connor1301> oh ok
07:48 < Connor1301> im not a good texter
07:48 < Connor1301> nm here
07:48 < Connor1301> im learning
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08:39 < Connor1301> whats going on
08:48 <+md_5> not much
08:49 < Connor1301> ok
09:00 < dx> is it philosophy time in #mcdevs?
09:01 < AlphaBlend> you tell me
09:03 < dx> huh
09:03 < dx> one of the proxies linked from the wiki has this feature: "onlineModeExceptions - in online mode, this is usernames which are not checked"
09:03 < dx> i wonder if the #mcdevs admins would prefer to have that kind of proxies 'censored'
09:05 < nickelpro> Why?
09:06 < SinZ> this is an open source of information, having the ability to turn online mode off is part of the protocol, on the event of login.minecraft.net and/or session.minecraft.net being down
09:06 < dx> this is a selective way to turn online mode
09:07 < dx> it's only used to allow piracy
09:07 < nickelpro> Or to allow bots through
09:07 < nickelpro> The far more common option
09:08 < SinZ> dx: its built into the vannila server
09:08 < SinZ> mostly
09:08 < SinZ> but allowing bots through is a *really* nice thing to have
09:08 < SinZ> or aliases
09:08 < dx> yeah, gotta agree
09:08 < SinZ> though aliases can be controlled ingame
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09:09 < dx> it's just that every other proxy/plugin/mod that implemented that feature got censored in the past from forums like the bukkit ones
09:10 < nickelpro> Good thing we're not bukkit
09:10 < dx> lol
09:10 < nickelpro> Unless you're going to buy an account for every bot running on a server
09:10 < nickelpro> you need a feature to allow the bots through
09:11 < dx> yeah, i wasn't considering bots
09:11 < nickelpro> It's a legitimate use case, no reason to disallow information on it
09:11 < nickelpro> just because it can also be used for piracy
09:11 < dx> when i said that i was thinking "what's the point other than that?"
09:11 < dx> so don't mind me.
09:13 < dx> out of curiosity, what do people use bots for nowadays? i've worked in one in the past, but found that server side mods to spawn NPCs were a cleaner solution
09:13 < nickelpro> When you don't control the server
09:14 < SinZ> or when you don't have the ability to modify the server on the fly
09:14 < dx> but just as a player, what can you do that's useful?
09:14 < nickelpro> Tons of stuff, the Civcraft team is doing some really cool stuff
09:15 < nickelpro> The built an entire ingame economy using nothing but bots
09:22 < SinZ> dx: theres always chat commands
09:23 < SinZ> and the fun in making the bots
09:25 < dx> heh
09:26 < dx> yeah.. chat commands was pretty much all my bot managed to do
09:26 < SinZ> could also have it as a player detector for a door
09:27 < SinZ> put some redstone in, so the bot can toggle a lever when a player is within 5 blocks of the door
09:27 < SinZ> and could implement white/blacklists to the door
09:27 < dx> it was mostly useless stuff, there was one that showed a list of 'online' players (i think /list didn't exist back then), but it showed only nearby player entities
09:27 < dx> SinZ: hmm, interesting
09:28 < dx> but really impractical if you own the server
09:28 < dx> the idea of the extra cpu usage / chunks loaded all the time annoyed me :D
09:29 < dx> and it really couldn't handle a lot of load back then
09:32 < SinZ> dx: its only impractical if you have a *very* good modding platform on the server
09:34 < dx> SinZ: writing bukkit plugins is pretty easy IMO
09:34 < dx> not sure what you mean by very good modding platform 
09:34 < SinZ> dynamic runtime
09:36 < SinZ> and having a bukkit plugin for stuff this minor imo is more overhead to the server
09:59 < Connor1301> who knows stieve
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11:36 < Connor1301> wazup
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11:50 < Connor1301> hey
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12:56 < Connor1301> hi
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18:57 < ellisvlad> hi
18:59 < ellisvlad> anyone on?
19:16 < shoghicp> yes
19:16 < shoghicp> ellisvlad: ping ;)
19:21 < ellisvlad> hi there
19:22 < shoghicp> do you wanted to ask anything?
19:22 < ellisvlad> Just found this irc ;) Looked pretty useful since I am making a minecraft server ;)
19:22 < shoghicp> "making" => writing the source code?
19:23 < ellisvlad> yes :P
19:23 < shoghicp> :D
19:23 < ellisvlad> I'm not some noob who is "making" a minecraft server using the default software or bukkit :P
19:24 < ellisvlad> I am rewriting everything :D :S
19:24 < ellisvlad> and now I have hit a problem...
19:24 < shoghicp> http://www.wiki.vg/Server_List
19:25 < shoghicp> I've done a MC client
19:25 < ellisvlad> Yup, I've been on all the sites :P
19:25 < shoghicp> and now I'm doing a MCPE server
19:25 < ellisvlad> read up on everything...yet I can;t fix my problem :/
19:26 < ellisvlad> I do have a nice and bulky feature and plans list which I won't bore you with just yet... you might be able to help me though? :D
19:29 < ellisvlad> Ok so, this is the problem...
19:29 < ellisvlad> I am not too far into development, I have the server pingable and connectable.
19:30 < ellisvlad> when you connect to the server, it authenticates and enables encryption
19:30 < ellisvlad> then the player is spawned and the general settings are sent
19:30 < ellisvlad> However
19:31 < ellisvlad> I am really confused on how to send the chunks to the client
19:41 < shoghicp> sec
19:41 < shoghicp> I was out
19:41 < shoghicp> I'm going to read everything
19:41 < ellisvlad> ;) ok :P
19:42 < shoghicp> you've to use the 0x38 packet
19:43 < ellisvlad> hmm, if I use 0x33, will that do nothing?
19:43 < shoghicp> yeah, also 0x33
19:43 < ellisvlad> I will try 0x38, nad come back in 5 mins if that fails ;)
19:44 < ellisvlad> thanks
19:44 < shoghicp> small block changes and explosions use other packets
19:44 < ellisvlad> ...well I will come back if it works too, but still ;)
19:44 < shoghicp> (after you've sent that part of the map)
19:44 < shoghicp> ok!
19:44 < ellisvlad> ...I will just stay here
19:45 < shoghicp> ping me
19:57 < ellisvlad> ok.. :P
19:57 < shoghicp> nah
19:57 < shoghicp> I saw it
19:57 < shoghicp> sometimes I change tabs
19:59 < ellisvlad> Hmm
20:00 < ellisvlad> I don't think I am formatting my chunk data correctly :/
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20:05 < shoghicp> sections of 16x16x16
20:07 < ellisvlad> ah
20:07 < ellisvlad> I was sendning 16x256x16
20:07 < ellisvlad> I'll try that
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20:13 < shoghicp> 16 sections of 16x16x16
20:14 < ellisvlad> bb in a sec, food ;)
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06:55 < dreadiscool> Hi
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06:55 < dreadiscool> If I set up a RRDNS, is it possible for me to distribute IPs based on PoP?
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18:45 < dav1d> clonejo: ping
18:45 <+clonejo> dav1d: pong
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23:25 < mobers> hi guys... I'm working with the MCP and can't figure out how to actually send a packet to the server the player is connected to... anyone able to point me in the right direction?
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23:27 < Krenair> player.sendQueue.addToSendQueue(packet);
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23:29 < mobers> alright, that solves that; do you know how I can form a packet as well? 
23:39 < mobers> there are a lot of Packet classes (e.g. Packet18Animate, etc); should I be using those?
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23:45 < Krenair> mobers, what do you want to send?
23:45 < mobers> let's say, for example, i want to tell the server that the client is crouching, or breaking a block
23:46 < mobers> I don't know where to start forming those packets in java
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03:10 < mobles> hi guys, i'm working with the MCP; where can I check packets that are incoming from the server?
03:13 <+clonejo> mobles: There should be some MCP related channel on Freenode
03:13 < mobles> ah, ok
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03:42 <+clonejo> TkTech: Do you think we should be more explicit in the topic about this?
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03:46 < dx> clonejo: it doesn't happen really often tbh
03:46 <+clonejo> dx: sure
03:48 < dx> but it's true that the focus of the channel is slightly implicit
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06:16 < Connor1301> whats up
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06:55 < Connor1301> um grum why do you keep ping timeouting
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08:43 < Connor1301> hey deaygo
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09:03 < Connor1301> so many joins and quits but no talk
09:12 < SinZ> its IRC, its not always fast paced...
09:16 <+md_5> channel has been a bit inactive of late
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12:08 < Connor1301> hi
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12:22 < Connor1301> omg
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12:55 < dx> i'm starting to think Connor1301 is a bot that makes random comments when people join or quit
13:00 < edk> I'm starting to think the quality of the channel would be improved if it were banned or otherwise silenced
13:01 < dx> that would be okay if it was a bot
13:01 < edk> if it's not a bot, maybe it'll realise the possibility of this happening, and stop doing it
13:02 < edk> humans who insist on acting like bots are no better than the real thing
13:02 < dx> heh
13:02 < dx> i must say i'm slightly annoyed at seeing 'activity' in this channel and it turns out to be something so pointless
13:03 < dx> but i wouldn't go as far as threatening to ban
13:03 < dx> i mean the channel rules say that the ban privileges are limited to cool guys like sircmpwn
13:04 < dx> (note: that's a very liberal non-serious interpretation of the rules)
13:04 < edk> for a second there I thought you were talking about the privilege to give out bans
13:04 < dx> heh
13:04 < dx> yeah, people rarely talk about the privilege of being banned
13:04 < Deaygo> What about the privilege of banning? :D
13:05 < edk> when you think about it it's quite an achievement to continuously upset so many people Tk bans you
13:05 < dx> edk: that's exactly my point!
13:07 < dx> anyway, i said that threats aren't needed, so
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13:07 < dx> GOD DAMMIT
13:07 < edk> what we can take away from this is that bots have shitty internet connections
13:07 < dx> lol
13:08 < jast> and use web interfaces?
13:08 < dx> he timeouted the exact moment i was going to write the message telling him politely to stop
13:08 < edk> I didn't look at his userhost
13:10 < dx> so, basically the only activity we've had today is complaining about someone who sends pointless messages that aren't relevant to the channel
13:11 < dx> i can't think of anything minecraft-related to talk about right now, but i just remembered i had to tell someone that there's a critical flaw in the irc rules page
13:11 < dx> http://mcdevs.org/irc/rules <-- first paragraph says 'exeception'
13:12 < edk> exeception
13:12 < edk> that was such a critical error I didn't notice it until I looked again
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13:13 < dx> it's such a critical error that it uses stealth techniques to stay in the page as long as possible
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13:48 <+ammar2> TkTech: looks like your git repo isn't synced up with the actual page at mcdevs.org, it still says "CIA bot" in the rules page even though its been updated to notifico in the repo
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05:36 < lahwran> how does minecraft tell if a server is up? it sends that one packet, right? but is there anything more to it?
05:36 < lahwran> do you have to do anything special these days?
05:36 < lahwran> iirc there's a new dns thing
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05:56 < umby24> lahwran: it sends a 'server list ping'
05:57 < umby24> nothing really special to it
05:57 < umby24> not encrypted or anything
05:57 < umby24> it sends back a kick packet (0xFF (Dec. 255)) with all the information you see in the client
05:58 < umby24> the new DNS thing is a SRV record, been in minecraft for a few versions
05:58 -!- Zachoz|Away is now known as Zachoz
05:58 < umby24> it just looks for the DNS SRV record before a standard dns query
05:58 < umby24> but iirc a srv record can include a port as well as an ip
05:59 < umby24> or even a different ip than a standard dns lookup
05:59 < lahwran> ok
05:59 < umby24> that way you don't have to pass your users a port, they just put in the ip.
05:59 < lahwran> how do I determine the port from a SRV lookup
06:01 < umby24> hm.. you could use nslookup to return it
06:02 < lahwran> I'm in python, twisted; sounds like what you're saying is "it's just a normal SRV record"
06:02 < lahwran> I don't know dns
06:02 < lahwran> so I don't know what's what, if you're saying it's normal I can just google for it
06:03 < umby24> im unfamiliar with looking it up programically, sorry
06:05 < lahwran> ok, thanks
06:06 < umby24> if you can get output from another program, nslookup -type=SRV [domain]
06:07 < umby24> though i am having issue with my test domain, as it appears they put it behind cloudflare :D
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15:26 < Not-001> [PyNBT] TkTech pushed 3 commits to master [+0/-0/±4] http://git.io/wm7nNw
15:26 < Not-001> [PyNBT] DMBuce 0dca461 - Fix shebang in bigtest
15:26 < Not-001> [PyNBT] DMBuce 3245ab2 - Update example documentation to work with Python 3 * Use mode='rb' with open() * Use `print(foo)` instead of `print foo` This clears up some of the confusion in issue #3.
15:26 < Not-001> [PyNBT] TkTech 6e1f01e - Merge pull request #6 from DMBuce/master Fix docs, test
15:30 < Not-001> [PyNBT] TkTech pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/Y8Ip7g
15:30 < Not-001> [PyNBT] TkTech 7a0be81 - Default NBTFile name is now ''; Closes #7
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12:51 < pbunny> hi
12:52 < pbunny> i need somebody to join my server and test stuff
12:52 < pbunny> ( i haven't bought mc client yet )
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15:34 < pbunny> hi, can somebody test my server?
15:34 < pbunny> i don't have mc client
15:41 <+clonejo> pbunny: Would be easier if you said host and port…
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16:23 < pbunny> clonejo: trolls.lv:1337
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18:57 < Valdiralita> zz_dav1d!
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08:27 <+md_5> <pbunny> [01:31:59] i don't have mc client
08:27 <+md_5> codes mc server: doesnt own a client
08:27 <+md_5> how do you even know you can log in?
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08:28 < dx> maybe he tests with a rcon/query/server list client
08:28 <+md_5> still doesnt let him log in
08:29 <+md_5> also this is the guy who codes in header files and uses epoll/select with 2 threads per connection, and a thread for each antity
08:29 < dx> maybe his mc sever doesn't support the network protocol at all
08:29 <+md_5> and keeps entire map loaded in ram
08:29 < dx> ah lol that guy
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08:29 < dx> yeah, my reaction when i saw his header files... well...
08:29 < dx> let's leave it there.
08:30 < dexter0> Recursion must give him nightmares.
08:30 < dx> don't want to include details about misplaced digestive fluids in this channel
08:31 <+md_5> cant find a good meme for codes mc server: doesnt own a client
08:31 < dx> you probably need to mix a few memes to get a good one
08:34 < dx> md_5: maybe just the [10] guy
08:35 < dx> (the one who's really high)
08:37 <+md_5> dx http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3t9v73/
08:37 < dx> perfect
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08:40 < dx> >trolls.lv:1337
08:40 < dx> not sure if the hostname of his mc server is relevant
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12:20 < pbunny> hi, client crashes when i send 'spawn mob' packet
12:20 < pbunny> any suggestions?
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12:38 <+md_5> pbunny how would you know? You dont have the client
12:39 <+md_5> unless you pirated
12:39 <+md_5> in which case gtfo
12:40 < pbunny> md_5: a guy tries and gets crash
12:40 <+md_5> you are gonna have fun writing a server without owning the client
12:40 <+md_5> seriously, how the f** did you get this far
12:40 < edk> md_5, by lying
12:40 < pbunny> md_5: http://dpaste.org/IbgPM/raw/
12:40 < pbunny> edk: no.
12:41 < pbunny> md_5: as you see, client actually lists 'Pig' entity in crash dump
12:41 < pbunny> so it parsed it
12:41 < pbunny> why did it crashed?
12:51 < Grum> because it got a NPE
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12:55 < pbunny> Grum: NPE?
12:55 < Grum> NullPointerException
12:55 < edk> (like it says in the error report)
12:55 < pbunny> yeah, and NullPointerException can mean anything
12:55 < pbunny> java sucks totally
12:56 < Grum> not really, you just used a nullpointer :p
12:56 < pbunny> if i don't send 0x18 packet, client does not crash
12:56 < pbunny> Grum: its a native client
12:56 < pbunny> i just sent 0x18 to it
12:56 < Grum> i guess you have to send more
12:56 < Grum> or with proper information
12:58 < pbunny> well it is correct according to http://wiki.vg/Protocol
12:58 < Grum> but the question remains, is THAT correct
12:59 < pbunny> i didn't sent Entity (0x1E) though
12:59 < pbunny> i haven't need it for item entities
12:59 < edk> java does kinda suck
13:00 < Grum> every language sucks
13:00 < edk> yep
13:00 < edk> in their own way, most things are shit
13:00 < pbunny> and is it safe to send 127 in metadata for any mob?
13:00 < edk> the reason java annoys me particularly is it tries to be all not crashy and predictable and compile time and type safe
13:00 < Grum> try and figure out pbunny :D
13:00 < pbunny> still waiting for him to try
13:01 < Grum> edk: erm 'not crashy' and 'predictable' and 'typesafe' are bad? O.o
13:01 < edk> oh, they would be if it worked
13:01 < edk> wouldn't be*
13:01 < edk> I mean, yes, it's type safe
13:01 < edk> but it doesn't make it crash any less, or need less testing
13:01 < edk> so I don't see the point
13:01 < Grum> euuh
13:02 < Grum> *ALL* code needs testing
13:02 < edk> right
13:02 < Grum> no matter what language
13:02 < edk> I agree
13:02 < edk> but that makes me ask the question "why bother having a pessimistic language if you have to test it anyway?"
13:02 < pbunny> 'typesafe' is ridiculous
13:02 < edk> you're ridiculous
13:02 < Grum> euuh wtf?
13:02 < pbunny> in C i can set any pointer to anything
13:03 < edk> I quite like type safety
13:03 < pbunny> no matter the type
13:03 < Grum> awesome nonsense arguments >.>
13:03 < edk> I just don't like the attitude in java
13:03 < Grum> which attitude in java?
13:03 < pbunny> 'predictable' is also BS as it depends on programmer's skill
13:03 < edk> It's hard to pin down. I feel like java has this idea that by making you type a type name enough times, it somehow becomes harder for things to crash
13:03 < pbunny> java is not more 'predictable', java is more 'predictable for noobs'
13:03 < Grum> erm what?
13:04 < Grum> you use an IDE right?
13:04 < Grum> i dont see any problems
13:04 < pbunny> no.
13:04 < pbunny> i use nano
13:04 < edk> yeah, but you're insane
13:04 < Grum> i mean, you wouldnt code java without an ide, if not ... well ..... stop being so daft
13:04 < pbunny> i never code java
13:04 < edk> this is what I don't get
13:04 < Zachoz> Then how can you say it's shit?
13:04 < edk> my complaints about Java may be unreasonable and unfair, but at least I used it before making assertions about it :P
13:05 < Grum> edk: next you are going to argue that a variable named of a single letter is 'much better' than one that describes the meaning properly
13:05 < edk> not so
13:05 < pbunny> edk: i tried to use it
13:05 < edk> but the java way where there's millions of casts everywhere... ugh
13:05 < Grum> erm there is not a single cast anywhere
13:05 < pbunny> when it attempted to javize my brain i threw it away
13:05 < edk> maybe that's a problem with the way specific people write java
13:05 < pbunny> there is actually 'brain java' disease
13:05 < Grum> i've just written ~300 lines of code without having to cast anything
13:05 < pbunny> people start to think like in java, with object and stuff
13:05 < Grum> i think you just suck at writing clean code :)
13:06 < edk> I write plenty of java without many casts in it
13:06 < Grum> or do not understand some of the basic concepts
13:06 < edk> but I see a lot of java that does have them in
13:06 < edk> while we're on the subject of things I don't like about java, fucking generics
13:06 < edk> grrrrr
13:06 < Grum> there are some points where you need casting; not so many
13:06 < pbunny> java is about using 50Mb of RAM for player structure
13:06 < edk> it's not about that
13:06 < Grum> pbunny: its not?
13:06 < pbunny> Grum: official server uses about that
13:07 < pbunny> that's why no 1000+ online server yet
13:07 < edk> one wonders how you worked this out
13:07 < pbunny> not even 100+ online iirc
13:07 < Grum> just for the player structure?.... not really
13:07 < edk> and why you insist on using b for bytes
13:07 < Grum> pbunny: no that is not at all the reason
13:07 < pbunny> edk: because theres also MiB abbrevuature
13:07 < Zachoz> "pbunny: not even 100+ online iirc".. Are you kidding...?
13:07 < pbunny> and nobody needs to concern about bits for at least 20 years
13:07 < edk> however Mb is clearly megabits
13:07 < edk> ...
13:07 < edk> you're retarded
13:07 < pbunny> Zachoz: is there 100+ online server anywhere?
13:08 < pbunny> i mean - a server, not collection of servers
13:08 < edk> fuck yes there are
13:08 < Grum> stop whining about how you captitalize the units god
13:08 < Zachoz> Yes... There's quite a few, actually.
13:08 < Grum> he said 1000+
13:08 < edk> Grum, it's a different fucking unit
13:08 < pbunny> hmh
13:08 < edk> no he didn't
13:08 < Grum> LEARN TO READ Zachoz
13:08 < edk> <pbunny> not even 100+ online iirc
13:08 < Zachoz> ^
13:08 < edk> b and B are not the same thing
13:08 < edk> if it were almost any other letter I wouldn't give a shit
13:08 < Grum> edk: its not, if you mean megabit just fucking type mbit not mb Mb MB mB ...
13:09 < Grum> are you really saying that you ONLY read 'mb' as millibit or millibar?
13:09 < edk> you know what? take that up with SI, not me
13:09 < edk> no, but Mb and MB are equally valid as units of data
13:10 < edk> just one's 8 times the size of the other
13:10 < edk> and I use both units fairly frequently at work
13:10 < Grum> not really; Mega bar is not really a useful measuring tool
13:10 < edk> megabit and megabyte
13:10 < Grum> right lets just stop whining about the capitalization of a letter kk?
13:10 <+Fador> ...you really measure memory usage in bits?
13:11 < edk> who said I measure memory usage in them?
13:11 < Grum> edk: god ....
13:11 < Grum> its just fador who thinks he can be super funny >.>
13:11 < edk> i'm quite happy to stop arguing about it
13:12 < edk> i just get caught up in arguments and then don't want to "lose"
13:12 < Grum> anyhow, pbunny, i'd like to see your 'proof' for the player-structure taking 50mbit/mb
13:12 < edk> i know that's silly
13:12 < edk> yeah, I'm unconvinced by that
13:12 < Grum> i know it is not true
13:12 < Grum> so feel free to prove it otherwise
13:12 < edk> still, a rewritten server would go faster
13:12 < Grum> faster what?
13:12 < edk> but it would go faster if it were rewritten in java, too
13:12 < edk> faster than the current one
13:13 < Grum> define faster
13:13 < edk> *sigh*
13:13 < pbunny> edk: not quite
13:13 < Grum> yes, be fucking specific for once
13:13 < edk> well, let's settle for "take fewer CPU cycles per tick"
13:13 < pbunny> you can't just code something fast in java
13:13 < Grum> faster what? logging in? higher tps? faster ping times?
13:13 < Grum> pbunny: false statement
13:13 < pbunny> because i.e. when you do a=2+5 java actually executes about 500 CPU instructions
13:13 < edk> logging in bottleneck isn't the server, as far as I know, it's doing the authentication dance
13:14 < Grum> pbunny: really?
13:14 < edk> pbunny, consider reading about some of the optimizations the JVM has enjoyed since being invented
13:14 < pbunny> edk: still it uses more than 10 instructions for addition
13:14 < pbunny> i.e. bounds checking
13:14 < Grum> that would mean it is at least 125 slower than ANYTHING out there
13:14 < pbunny> and don't forget about garbage collector!
13:14 < edk> garbage collection is a real weakness of java
13:14 < pbunny> it just stops everything and does its dirty work
13:14 < Grum> which would mean a client not running java but c would have 2500 fps on my machine?
13:14 < edk> however, it's better than a few alternatives
13:14 < Grum> and AT MINIMUM 125fps on ANY machine?
13:15 < edk> Grum, well, unless the bottleneck is the gpu
13:15 < edk> anyway, GC is a pain in the ass, and it is a problem
13:15 < Grum> pbunny: it stops everything? seriously? >.>
13:15 < pbunny> Grum: yeah. it can't check memory during its changing
13:15 < edk> but if the alternative is your horrible C that leaks allocated storage everywhere...
13:15 < pbunny> edk: my C leaks nothing
13:15 < edk> I'll believe that when I see it
13:16 < Grum> then again, you do not have a server written
13:16 < pbunny> and it uses abotu 80Mb for everything
13:16 < Alan> oh boy
13:16 < pbunny> Grum: partially written
13:16 < Grum> without anyone online?
13:16 < Grum> epic
13:16 < Grum> that is even worse than the official server >.>
13:16 < Alan> what a fun channel this is
13:16 < pbunny> Grum: it uses about 300 bytes per player online
13:16 < Grum> pbunny: then its not a minecraft server
13:16 < pbunny> ...
13:16 < Alan> half a proof-of-concept that isn't feature complete isn't really comparable...
13:17 < Grum> because it is 100% impossible to have that little memory usage for an online player *AND* actually have a proper minecraft server
13:17 < edk> well
13:17 < Grum> s/proper/featureful/
13:17 < Grum> s/featureful/feature complete/
13:17 < Grum> lets be more exact :)
13:17 < pbunny> Fador: can you please show me code that sends 0x18 (Spawn Mob) packet?
13:18 < edk> I'm trying to think about what you actually need to store for a player
13:18 < pbunny> Grum: why?
13:18 < pbunny> Grum: i store player's location, inventory, network stuff
13:18 < Grum> pbunny: because each player has to have at least 19*16x19*16x256 blocks loaded around itself
13:18 < pbunny> LOL
13:18 < edk> I think he's discounting that
13:18 < Grum> i know he is
13:18 < pbunny> now that's a java thinking
13:18 < edk> you can have single inventory items that take more than 300B though
13:18 < Grum> pbunny: no its not
13:18 < edk> pbunny, that's stupid
13:18 < pbunny> Grum: why the hell should i store the map in player's structure????
13:19 < edk> that's just someone interpreting the question different from you
13:19 < Grum> pbunny: quote me where i say that you store that IN the player structure?
13:19 < pbunny> Grum: if 1000 players will be standing on the same place - i must store the map around them 1000 times?
13:19 < pbunny> oh god why
13:19 <+Fador> pbunny: https://github.com/fador/mineserver/blob/master/include/protocol.h#L111
13:19 < Grum> quote me.
13:19 < Grum> because you are just making shit up
13:20 < edk> I wouldn't bother waiting for that quote :P
13:20 < pbunny> 13:37:23         Grum | pbunny: because each player has to have at least 19*16x19*16x256 blocks loaded around itself
13:20 < Grum> i'm saying it should be loaded, not saying WHERE it should be stored/loaded
13:20 < edk> pbunny, although a couple of the problems you have listed in java are actually real problems
13:20 < Grum> yes, loaded around itself, i'm not saying anything about WHERE to store that
13:20 < edk> you seem to completely misunderstand their significance and when they apply
13:20 < edk> so I'm inclined to say you don't actually know anything about java at all
13:20 < pbunny> Grum: why would server keep a copy of map that he loaded?
13:20 < pbunny> why would it take memory on server?
13:20 < Grum> because that is what a feature complete minecraft server does
13:20 < Grum> but you'll figure that out when you grow up
13:20 < pbunny> storing a map for every player?
13:20 <+Fador> pbunny: metadata should be just (int8_t)127 if no metadata is present
13:20 < Grum> no ....
13:21 < Grum> loading the world-data around players in memory
13:21 < pbunny> Fador: well i send 127
13:21 < edk> I have to go
13:21 < edk> have fun
13:21 < edk> pbunny, try not to hurt your brain
13:22 < Grum> pbunny: you do far too many assumptions
13:22 < pbunny> Fador: << (int8_t)0 << (int8_t)0 << metadata;
13:22 < Grum> but you'll find out soon enough why its not trivial to be a feature complete minecraft server
13:22 < pbunny> what are these 2 zeros there? o.O
13:22 < Grum> *AND* be fast
13:22 < pbunny> Grum: map is already loaded on server...
13:22 < pbunny> it is always kept there loaded......
13:22 < Grum> the whole map?
13:22 < pbunny> yeah
13:22 < Grum> lol ...
13:22 <+Fador> pbunny: not sure..it might still be using some older protocol version because I haven't updated everything =/
13:23 < Grum> you do realize that people have a 1.5gb map very often?
13:23 < pbunny> Fador: i will try these zeros
13:23 < Grum> or even far far bigger
13:23 < pbunny> Grum: do you realize my server has 8Gb of RAM?
13:23 < pbunny> and it will have 256Gb
13:23 < Grum> >.>
13:23 < pbunny> 256Gb is quite enough for everything
13:23 < jast> Grum: we've done all this before
13:23 < Grum> will be nice startup times then for you lol :p
13:23 < pbunny> Grum: nice performance on other hand
13:23 < jast> if you're not in it for the entertainment, you can't back out too early
13:23 < Grum> loading the whole world into ram, epic startup wait >.>
13:24 < pbunny> Grum: so?
13:24 < pbunny> good performance after it for everything
13:24 < Grum> pbunny: yeah because waiting 20 minutes before your whole world is loaded is worth it >.>
13:24 < pbunny> and world will be a true world, not 'combined singleplayer' 
13:24 < Grum> what?
13:24 < pbunny> mobs will be independent etc
13:24 < Grum> that makes no sense at all
13:24 < pbunny> think about it some more then
13:24 < Grum> 'true world', 'combined singleplayer'
13:24 < Grum> those terms mean nothing
13:25 < jast> he's explained it before
13:25 < pbunny> yeah, currently mc servers offer 'combined singleplayer'
13:25 < pbunny> no players -> nothing happens
13:25 < Grum> what? O.o
13:25 < Grum> euuh
13:25 < pbunny> world is saved and stopped
13:25 < Grum> no stuff happens in the areas of the world that is loaded
13:25 < pbunny> until player comes
13:25 < jast> the idea is, apparently, that supposedly it's 5000% better if the world still updates everywhere even when nobody is near (or even logged in)
13:25 < Grum> lol
13:25 < Grum> LOL
13:25 < jast> yes
13:25 < jast> exactly
13:25 < Grum> good luck running out of cpu on the best of machines
13:25 < pbunny> jast: yes, it allows for better realism
13:25 < Grum> there is a good reason we unload parts of the world
13:26 < jast> Grum: oh, but what you don't know is that pbunny is a self-certified genius and master of C
13:26 < pbunny> Grum: CPU usage is about 1% for processing world and physics for 1000 entities
13:26 < Grum> only 1000 yes
13:26 < Grum> but entities would keep spawning
13:26 < pbunny> and its when running via valgrind compiled with debug
13:26 < jast> so for 100000 entities it's 100% :)
13:26 < Grum> because the world is loaded
13:26 < pbunny> jast: if running via valgrind
13:26 < jast> yeah yeah
13:26 < jast> we haven't considered a bigger world yet
13:26 < Grum> so yeah, having a couple of million entities and dont forget all the other stuff the server has to do
13:26 < pbunny> Grum: sure, no problem
13:26 < Grum> really?
13:26 < Grum> and how fast do you think to finish this server?
13:26 < jast> if the surface of the world increases by a factor of 2, the RAM required increases by a factor of up to 512
13:27 < Grum> that 'has no problem' having thousands of people online while keeping any map that fits in memory loaded forever?
13:27 < jast> in short, web scale!
13:27 < Grum> because i'd like to see it :)
13:27 < Grum> oh, and obviously do *everything* the current minecraft does logicwise
13:27 < jast> you will, Real Soon Now(tm)
13:28 < jast> did we mention that pbunny does not have a minecraft client?
13:28 < Grum> oh also, how will it get to this size world?
13:28 < pbunny> jast: what do you mean by "surface of the world increases"?
13:28 < Grum> pbunny: people explore
13:28 < pbunny> what exactly increases by factor of 2?
13:28 < pbunny> Z size? X size?
13:28 < Grum> or do you plan to pre-gen a 60million*60million world?
13:28 < jast> surface area
13:28 < pbunny> Grum: no.
13:28 < Grum> so how do you plan to do worldgeneration?
13:28 < jast> surfaces are two-dimensional
13:28 < pbunny> Grum: i already done that
13:28 < Grum> did you also do the lighting of them?
13:28 -!- act4 [1f073cdc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.31.7.60.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
13:29 < pbunny> just call the relevant function of needed world prior to using this chunk
13:29 < jast> oh please, lighting is for free! didn't you know?
13:29 < Grum> also i really wouldnt want to see this code in c
13:29 < Grum> i mean it must have locks all over the place :)
13:30 -!- Zachoz is now known as Zachoz|Away
13:30 < Grum> beceause the only way you'll get remotely close to what you claim to achieve performance wise is to use every single core on a system
13:30 < Grum> and good fucking luck with the locking :)
13:30 < pbunny> Grum: http://dpaste.org/P7mog/ - here you go
13:31 < pbunny> common world loop, some physics stuff, handling of dumping entities to players
13:31 < Grum> and no threading
13:31 < Grum> i'd love to see your lighting code
13:31 < Grum> assuming it is feature complete and correct
13:31 < pbunny> no threading?
13:31 < jast> because it's so cheap, let's implement radiosity, too
13:31 < Grum> wait; there is threading
13:31 < Grum> nevermind :)
13:32 < Grum> the fact that 95% of the code is on the righthand side of my page kinda raises a huuuuuge red flag btw
13:34 < jast> hey, m*n loop on entities? awesome
13:34 < pbunny> Grum: http://dpaste.org/MQNyD/raw/
13:34 < pbunny> boo!
13:34 < jast> and it's even symmetrical
13:34 < Grum> but i'm really curious how you did your block and skylighting calculations
13:35 < jast> oh, actually it's an m*n*p loop in some situations
13:35 < pbunny> Grum: search for "chunk_set_block" there
13:35 < pbunny> or chunk_set_field / chunk_set_hfield
13:35 < jast> i.e. one billion iterations for 1000 entities
13:35 < Grum> that doesn't set any light pbunny
13:35 < Grum> you just set the heightmap
13:35 < pbunny> jast: i will optimize that
13:36 < pbunny> split entities by quadrants
13:36 < pbunny> so only nearby ones will be concerned
13:36 < pbunny> Grum: i haven't implemented lighting yet, but you can set it with chunk_set_hfield
13:36 < Grum> pbunny: i'm missing the skylight and blocklight calculations
13:36 < jast> oh see, he just hasn't implemented it yet
13:36 < Grum> you cant just 'set' a light value without doing propagation
13:37 < jast> but of course we all know how easy it is to do that
13:37 < pbunny> jast: easier than making client not crash on pig entity packet receive
13:37 < pbunny> :|
13:37 < jast> if you say so
13:37 < Grum> also, all of your macros are broken, unless c++ automatically puts ()'s around your arguments :)
13:38 < pbunny> no.
13:38 < pbunny> ( ) are not required
13:38 < pbunny> go learn some C
13:38 < jast> well, they aren't if he happens to be using variable names whenever he passes stuff
13:38 < pbunny> right
13:38 < jast> if he doesn't... boom
13:38 < Grum> erm they are pbunny? if you define a macro as: foo(i) { return i*2; } you better make that return (i)*2
13:39 < pbunny> Grum: not quite
13:39 < jast> oh, but you never pass something more complex than 'foo' to macros. everyone knows that!
13:39 < Grum> because when you'd ever be passing in: 1+1 as argument for i
13:39 < jast> err, bad example word :)
13:39 < Grum> it expands to: return 1+1*2 ... which is NOT 2 :P
13:39 < pbunny> Grum: if i would need to pass 1+1, i will use ( )
13:39 < jast> foo(1+1) == 3! yay!
13:39 < pbunny> don't worry about that
13:39 < Grum> pbunny: oooh wait; so when you use the macro with a composed argument you will remember to fix up your macro?
13:39 < jast> so you always have to remember which things you're calling are macros and which aren't. you must really hate yourself...
13:40 < pbunny> Grum: of course
13:40 < Grum> i mean, that is not at all a way that will give you unexpected bugs at any time
13:40 < pbunny> jast: everything are macros there
13:40 < pbunny> except for main() and thread functions
13:40 < jast> yeah, because you hate yourself, right
13:40 < pbunny> and some init functions that are called only once
13:40 < pbunny> jast: what is wrong with defines?
13:40 < jast> and because the inline keyword doesn't exist
13:40 < pbunny> i don't get it
13:40 < pbunny> jast: its not the same
13:41 < Grum> oh nothing; as long as you write them properly ;)
13:41 < jast> the code gets even less readable
13:41 < Grum> these arent really robust
13:41 < pbunny> jast: its 100% readable by me
13:41 < Grum> if this isnt robust .. that says quite some about the rest of the code
13:41 < pbunny> what do you mean by "not robust"?
13:41 < Grum> 'it breaks when you put shit in it depending on what you put in it'
13:41 < Grum> aka: fragile :P
13:41 < pbunny> Grum: this applies to any code
13:41 < pbunny> you shouldn't put shit there
13:42 < pbunny> well except for java which is shit itself
13:42 < Grum> erm
13:42 < pbunny> so it isn't suffering
13:42 < Grum> foo(1+1) is not 'shit' :)
13:42 < Grum> so tempting to find a bug in your code right now where you failed to put ()'s in your macro ;)
13:42 < Grum> but i dont think you have implemented enough to easily find one
13:43 < pbunny> Grum: i don't spawn bugs.
13:43 < Grum> actually, you do
13:43 < pbunny> and you are right, shitty developers spend 80% of their time to 'implement enough' to find bugs easier
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13:44 < Grum> anyhow, pbunny, is this project of yours opensource?
13:44 < jast> nope
13:44 < jast> he's IP-paranoid and stuff
13:45 < pbunny> ip-paranoid?
13:45 < Grum> just let him answer jast gawd
13:45 < jast> whatever. have fun.
13:45 < pbunny> Grum: no, maybe in the future
13:45 < pbunny> do you want to participate?
13:46 < Grum> i'd like to see you solve some problems
13:46 < pbunny> what problems?
13:46 < Grum> lighting for example
13:47 < pbunny> don't see problem there
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13:47 < pbunny> what seems hard for you?
13:47 < Grum> what do you consider lighting?
13:47 < pbunny> light and skylight portion of chunk
13:48 < Grum> right, so that code is easily to do efficiently? :)
13:48 < pbunny> depends on algorithm
13:48 < pbunny> and requirements
13:48 < Grum> the algorithm is: you are one lighter than your brightest neighbor; max 15; min 0;
13:49 < Grum> blocks can be lightsources of different strengths and allow light to pass through 
13:49 < Stormx2> Grum, you can't win an argument with pbunny. He brings you down to his level then beats you with experience
13:49 < Grum> some blocks let light through but they diminish it with more than 1, like water
13:50 < pbunny> Grum: most probably i will create a special type of metaentity - lightsource
13:50 < Grum> so the furthest light will go from a single source is 15 blocks
13:50 < pbunny> and will iterate through them in entities loop
13:50 < pbunny> in world.c
13:50 < pbunny> they will update light around them if needed
13:50 < pbunny> or simply on every iteration
13:50 < Grum> but you will check every gametick if it is needed?
13:50 < Grum> for all lights?
13:50 < Grum> for a single floating torch you'll end up checking ~4k blocks around it
13:50 < pbunny> Grum: don't see any problems of updating ~30 bytes per entity per tick
13:51 < pbunny> why 4k blocks?
13:51 < Grum> because that is how far the light shines?
13:51 -!- Justasic2 [~Justasic@174-25-126-72.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #mcdevs
13:52 < pbunny> well implement some tracking of light changes
13:52 < pbunny> so light will be updated only when needed
13:52 < pbunny> i.e. when torch is placed
13:52 < Stormx2> How do you track which block actions affect which lights?
13:52 < Stormx2> e.g. a piston moving a block
13:52 < Grum> pbunny: block placement, block breaking indeed
13:53 < Grum> or rather, on delta-block :)
13:53 < pbunny> Stormx2: any block movement inside light-change-trackable area will trigger light update
13:53 < Grum> but that is not really the issue
13:53 < pbunny> block change *
13:53 < pbunny> i don't see a problem
13:53 < Grum> the issue is the sheer volume of blocks you have to calculate the lighting for
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13:54 < Grum> and because light *can* decay with more than 1 you are limited in the amounts of shortcuts you can take
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13:54 < Grum> but please do, i'm really interested if you find a good & fast way
13:56 < pbunny> i don't see the problem...
13:56 < pbunny> it's like 200 bytes write (at most) for light update
13:56 < pbunny> maybe 400 bytes read
13:56 < Stormx2> pbunny, the issue isn't the number of bytes you're writing...
13:56 < pbunny> RAM can handle that
13:57 -!- zz_dav1d [dav1d@static.82.162.46.78.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Quit: nothing to see]
13:58 -!- dav1d [dav1d@unaffiliated/dav1d] has joined #mcdevs
14:03 < pbunny> Stormx2: what is the issue?
14:05 < pbunny> can somebody join trolls.lv:1337 and test the freaking pig?
14:07 < pbunny> can client crash if pig entity is (theoretically possible) inside block?
14:37 < Stormx2> no
14:38 < pbunny> what can be the problem then
14:38 < Stormx2> pbunny, the issue is cpu cycles as lighting is O(a^n)
14:39 < pbunny> so what
14:39 < pbunny> lightning won't change every tick
14:39 < pbunny> lighting *
14:39 < Stormx2> so an implementation written by people who understand what big-O is is slow
14:40 < jast> have fun at dusk and dawn, then
14:40 < pbunny> dusk and dawn doesn't happen every tick
14:40 < Stormx2> jast, that's client-side
14:40 < Stormx2> the lighting changes anyway
14:40 < pbunny> oh?
14:40 < Stormx2> server still sends the same skylight
14:41 < Stormx2> yeah, it does it based on time irrc
14:41 < jast> right. magic.
14:41 < jast> but still you'd have to recalculate light
14:41 < jast> after all you need to figure out the correct light level for places that used to be lit by sun and now aren't
14:42 < jast> I suppose you could cheat and do it just once
14:42 < dav1d> meh I am bored
14:42 < jast> (per dusk and per dawn)
14:42 < dav1d> sitiing at university "learnling" java -.-
14:42 < jast> dav1d: feel free to join in yet another iteration of this pointless discussion
14:42 < Stormx2> not true. the client treats blocklight and skylight separately. The *actual* skylight it computes is a product of the skylight sent in chunks, and the time-of-day
14:42 < Stormx2> i.e. you don't need to do any new light calculations for night-time
14:42 < dav1d> atm Hello World, line for line explanation
14:43 < dav1d> jast: light calculations?
14:43 < jast> so the server doesn't have to decide where it can and can't spawn mobs?
14:43 < jast> dav1d: that's just a sub-topic
14:43 < Stormx2> Oh, shit.
14:43 < dav1d> if you come up with a good and fast way, let me know, gotta implement it for BraLa some day
14:43 < Stormx2> Hm.
14:43 < dav1d> ah ok
14:43 < jast> the overarching story is a certain person's super server that does everything
14:43 < Stormx2> I'm sure I recall someone telling me it moved client-side but perhaps I'm wrong
14:43 < dav1d> and they use a mac at university -.-
14:43 < dav1d> they should know better
14:44 < jast> well, I suppose there's no point in sending the dusk/dawn-related light updates to the clients, but you still have to calculate it on the server
14:45 < pbunny> jast: my server won't "spawn" mobs
14:45 < pbunny> mobs will reproduce
14:46 < jast> I know, I know
14:46 < jast> but you still need to know about lighting if you want to, say, determine correct growth for plants
14:46 < pbunny> i.e. pigs will infest players with larvae which after some time will kill player and several new pigs will be born
14:46 < jast> oh, just like in real life
14:46 < pbunny> yeah
14:47 < pbunny> plants will eat players and other mobs and grow after that
14:47 < pbunny> they will need nutrients
14:48 < jast> I can see it now... a patch of high grass chasing and eating players
14:49 < pbunny> no, they won't move
14:49 < pbunny> but they can digest anything that will step on them, slowly
14:51 < pbunny> i will need light calculations for UFO appearing
14:51 < dx> god dammit guys
14:51 < dx> you talk too much
14:52 < pbunny> btw, is it possible to surrond some mob with darkness (set all light to 0)? how will he look like?
14:52 < dx> and the worst part is that i was going to grab popcorn to continue reading, but then you went on to say 'java is shit'. nobody cares if java is shit.
14:52 < pbunny> dx: but there are many that need to be told the truth
14:52 < pbunny> i.e. dav1d 
14:53 < dx> i don't know what you're talking about but i've already saved my popcorn in the fridge for another day
14:53 < dav1d> pbunny: mh?
14:53 < dav1d> didn't follow the conversation
14:54 < dav1d> pbunny: what?
14:54 < dav1d> is it my fault that I have tests in java to finish university?
14:56 < dx> ha
14:57 < dx> yeah, dav1d joined in the middle of this, only mentioned the university thing, and then pbunny attacks him randomly for having mentioned java. lol.
14:57 < dx> okay, okay, i'll grab the popcorn again and continue reading this conversation from the beginning
14:57 < dx> but it better be good!
14:58 < pbunny> dav1d: this is your fault that you attend useless timewaste
14:58 < dav1d> haha
14:58 < dav1d> what a funny guy
14:58 < pbunny> its just a business of making money from parents that are 100% sure educations is needed now as it was 50 years ago
14:58 < dx> dav1d: i agree!
14:59 < dav1d> dx: thanks
15:00 < pbunny> education now serves 2 things
15:01 < pbunny> first, its a business. a bunch of 'professors' earn money by wasting time of students that aren't aware that they can just google all they need like 100 times faster
15:02 < pbunny> second, its a government structures for brainwashing the youth of society
15:02 < pbunny> i.e. they enforce m$ products and position linux to students like some exotic stuff
15:02 < dav1d> wrong
15:03 < dav1d> university pcs run linux, profs use all OS mixed
15:03 < pbunny> so students will use m$ products and can be controlled by the system via microsoft
15:03 < dx> meh
15:03 < pbunny> dav1d: there are exceptions
15:03 < pbunny> 90% of univercities position m$ as primary OS simply because m$ 'sponsors' them
15:03 < pbunny> also they teach C#, ASP.NET and other ridiculous bs
15:04 < dx> we already know you never had formal studies, pbunny, it was obvious from the beginning
15:04 < pbunny> i had until i left
15:04 <+sadimusi> by choice? :D
15:04 < pbunny> yeah
15:04 < pbunny> sadimusi: i noticed they try to brainwash me
15:04 < pbunny> it was too dangerous to stay
15:05 < dx> maybe brainwashing isn't always a bad thing after all
15:05 < pbunny> they only reason i went there at all was because of parents persuaded me
15:05 < dav1d> nope, no c#
15:05 < pbunny> as always happens
15:05 < dav1d> racket and java
15:05 < pbunny> dx: it is bad for mental freedom, obviously
15:05 < pbunny> and for individuality
15:05 <+sadimusi> how so?
15:06 < dav1d> bbl going home
15:06 < dx> some people make you consider that mental freedom leads to awful results
15:06 < pbunny> what people?
15:06 < dx> stupid people
15:06 < pbunny> only a very few people are totally free
15:06 -!- dav1d is now known as zz_dav1d
15:06 < pbunny> and they are at the top of all of this
15:07 <+Fador> they teach C++ at my university =)
15:07 < dx> haskell / C at mine
15:07 <+sadimusi> we can code in whatever language we choose, the examples are mostly in java
15:08 < pbunny> still i don't see how google is less efficient than sitting there for years
15:08 <+sadimusi> look at your code and you'll know
15:08 < pbunny> nothing wrong there :)
15:08 < dx> would you decide to google spontaneously "how to measure algorithmic complexity"?
15:08 < pbunny> it's just not what you are used to
15:08 < dx> because you don't seem to know what that is
15:09 < pbunny> dx: yes, if i will need to measure it
15:09 < dx> lol
15:09 < dx> that answer...
15:09 < dx> i'll take it as a "no"
15:09 < dx> since you'll never realize when you need it if you don't know it exists
15:10 < pbunny> because i'm fine without it
15:10 < pbunny> and it exists only to garbage the minds of students some more
15:10 < dx> lol
15:10 <+sadimusi> :D
15:10 < dx> computer science theory is garbage, got it
15:10 < pbunny> there are tons of principles, standards, etc that do nothing useful
15:10 < pbunny> abstractions...
15:10 < pbunny> dx: yeah, theory is garbage if it isn't specific
15:10 < dx> yep, that seems to match the way you code perfectly
15:10 < dx> i do believe you're being honest
15:10 < pbunny> well my code works and is efficient
15:11 < pbunny> i don't need to know freaking hundreds of 'theories' to code well
15:11 < Stormx2> Can someone please ban this turd
15:11 < Stormx2> I'm sick of this shit
15:11 < pbunny> lol
15:11 < Stormx2> Stop taking pride in being uneducated
15:11 < dx> Stormx2: sorry for continuing it :(
15:11 < dx> i just find him very entertaining
15:12 < pbunny> Stormx2: education is not important in programming
15:12 < pbunny> ability to learn and invent is important
15:12 < Stormx2> Yes it fucking is you tard. This is why your code sucks.
15:12 < Stormx2> Every time we've got a snippet of your code it has been total garbage
15:12 < Stormx2> And you can't even admit to it.
15:13 < pbunny> because it isn't what you are used to in univercity?
15:13 < dx> fun fact: education is important for many things, including realizing how your code is shit!
15:13 < pbunny> dx: education can be different
15:13 < Stormx2> Everyone else
15:13 < Stormx2> Opinions please
15:13 < pbunny> univercities perform the "useless shit brainwashing"-style education
15:13 < pbunny> to make education periods longer and grab more money
15:14 < Stormx2> pbunny, they also teach you important concepts like big-O, which I still haven't heard your rationale for not accepting
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15:14 < pbunny> Stormx2: can you give any example of when i will need this big-O ?
15:14 <+sadimusi> Stormx2: I think it's obvious that nobody agrees with him on anything
15:14 < pbunny> and anyway i can just google it in 5 minutes
15:14 < dx> what sadimusi said
15:14 < Stormx2> sadimusi, you can stop this
15:14 < Stormx2> Make #mcdevs-1989
15:14 < Stormx2> send pbunny there
15:14 < pbunny> lol.
15:14 < pbunny> don't be so mad
15:15 < Stormx2> anyone who wants to follow him and write servers with pthreads and mutexes
15:15 < Stormx2> and not abstract datatypes
15:15 < Stormx2> or any of that shit anyone sensible does
15:15 < pbunny> i have abstract datatypes
15:15 < pbunny> i.e. item
15:15 < dx> what i'm really worried about is, am i the only one who isn't 'affected negatively' by his presence?
15:15 < pbunny> dx: obviously univercities inject a program to hate enemies of education system
15:15 < dx> loling
15:15 < jast> what do you mean by 'affected negatively'
15:16 < Stormx2> This is a channel I enjoy talking about technical parts of MC in. And I really value the opinions of almost everyone here.
15:16 < dx> jast: he's amusing, that's what i mean
15:16 < jast> oh, definitely
15:16 < dx> cool.
15:16 < Stormx2> But I hate some 15yo chipping in with "lol java is slow"
15:16 < Stormx2> or some shit
15:16 < Stormx2> It ruins the channel.
15:16 < pbunny> lol.
15:16 < jast> let's face it, java *is* slow (lol)
15:16 < pbunny> ++
15:16 < dx> yeah, java is really slow, REALLY slow
15:16 < Stormx2> Java being slow is not why minecraft is slow though.
15:16 < dx> but the issue might be that i have 32mb of ram
15:17 < Stormx2> Not entirely, not even majority.
15:17 < dx> and a 2gb swap partition mounted over sshfs
15:17 < pbunny> Stormx2: yeah, that's only one of reasons
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15:17 < pbunny> the other reason is - java is a memory hog
15:17 < pbunny> that's why they had to offload world regions
15:17 < pbunny> that's why additional overhead was introduced just to make server work at all
15:17 < Stormx2> world regions are stored as byte or nibble arrays iirc.
15:18 < pbunny> yeah, to disk
15:18 < Stormx2> I run my server off a ramdisk
15:18 < Stormx2> So, no disk.
15:18 < jast> the worst thing about java is that many of the biggest projects that use it are written badly and solve non-problems, and everyone jumps on those and integrates them into anything they, in turn, write in java
15:18 < pbunny> in C i can easily keep 2500x2500x256 world in 4Gb of RAM
15:18 < pbunny> with java i doubt 64Gb would be enough
15:18 < Stormx2> what makes you say that?
15:18 < pbunny> i did calculations.
15:18 < Stormx2> java stores byte arrays just like C does
15:18 < pbunny> ah
15:18 < pbunny> how about array sizes?
15:19 < dx> Stormx2: this guy stores the whole world in memory all the time
15:19 < pbunny> hmm
15:19 < Stormx2> They're byte[], it's not a python list or anything
15:19 < pbunny> dx: yeah, and i can keep 2500x2500 world that way
15:19 < Stormx2> dx, so do I but I don't need a new server to do it :P
15:19 < dx> Stormx2: don't bother arguing his shit, he knows about this
15:19 < pbunny> Stormx2: well maybe problem lies in another reason
15:19 < pbunny> the brain java of mojang devs?
15:19 < pbunny> the wish to OOP anything as much as they can
15:19 <+sadimusi> it's starting to get annoying, is anybody still having fun and wants to keep him around?
15:20 < dx> i do, but don't mind if someone kicks him
15:20 < jast> what's annoying is that everyone thinks they can educate him
15:20 < Stormx2> I could go either way.
15:20 < pbunny> omg, you can just ask me to stop this topic
15:20 < Stormx2> Maybe see if he keeps it up?
15:20 < jast> only slightly, though. it's kind of funny, too, at the same time
15:21 <+sadimusi> I'll just disable notifications for this channel for a while then :)
15:22 < dx> actually i think the conversation is over
15:22 < jast> your face is over
15:22 < jast> !!
15:22 < dx> :(
15:22 < jast> oh wait, no, there it is. my mistake.
15:22 < dx> oh cool
15:23 < dx> i'm going to write a minecraft server in pypy, they say it's faster than C so it's even better than java right?
15:23 < Stormx2> I'm going to write a minecraft server on a lisp machine because I hear they're all the rage
15:24 < dx> i'll just use python generators instead of arrays, python generators are just code and don't use any memory at all
15:24 < dx> i'd use the term "heap memory" but i've never heard it before
15:24 < dx> i can still use it - i just have to google it
15:24 < pbunny> are you serious?
15:25 < pbunny> you shouldn't use python at the first place
15:25 < dx> are YOU serious?
15:25 < pbunny> of course
15:25 < dx> oh god dammit sorry i'm continuing it
15:26 < jast> from now on I'll write all my code in Ada 83
15:28 < pbunny> Stormx2: what is your version about why mojang decided to not keep world in ram?
15:29 < pbunny> why did they go to all these complications and limitations (no offline mobs etc)?
15:29 < dx> dude
15:29 < dx> the answer to that question is trivial
15:29 < Alan> ugh
15:29 < Alan> this channel
15:29 < Alan> is full of people who haven't got a fucking clue, and people raging/sighing at people who don't have a clue
15:29 < Alan> who suggested I should come here?
15:29 < Alan> was it eddyb ?
15:29 < dx> Alan: uh, sorry
15:30 < dx> Alan: my pypy comment was sarcastic btw
15:30 < Alan> dx: I could tell you were being sarcastic
15:30 < dx> oh ok
15:30 < Alan> just, in general
15:30 < dx> Alan: then i don't know what other people you're talking about
15:30 < dx> Alan: it's just pbunny being derp...
15:30 < eddyb> Alan: yeah, well, I'm sorry if it turned out worse :(
15:30 < Alan> mainly pdelvo 
15:30 < Alan> erm
15:30 < Alan> pbunny: 
15:30 < dx> Alan: it's not usually like this
15:31 < Alan> yeah, it seems to usually be dead instead
15:31 < Alan> :P
15:31 < dx> ..well, yeah, lately yes
15:31 < pbunny> dx: trivial? can you sound it?
15:31 < dx> it's mostly about mc protocol and nobody interested happened with the protocol in a long time
15:31 < dx> pbunny: infinite world
15:32 < pbunny> dx: are you serious about somebody can ever need infinite world?
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15:32 < pbunny> isn't 2500x2500 already big enough?
15:32 < pbunny> or 15000x15000 (256Gb RAM) ?
15:32 < Alan> infinite world = very easy for players to accidentally make it use all the RAM
15:32 < dx> lol
15:32 < pbunny> Alan ++
15:32 < pbunny> dx: world is still not infinite
15:32 <+Fador> some run servers on raspberry pi with limited RAM ;D
15:32 < Alan> without regard for what the hardware specs are
15:32 < Alan> loading only what's in use lets memory usage scale with player count, not world size
15:33 < Alan> and lets you still have your effectively unlimited worlds
15:33 < Alan> how is that so hard to grasp?
15:33 < pbunny> why not limit world to 15000x15000 and loop it as planet?
15:33 < pbunny> it's a HUGE world
15:33 < dx> pbunny: my feed the beast server is hosted on a 512mb openvz - it runs flawlessly and the generated chunks extend up to 9000
15:33 < Alan> because that's not Minecraft
15:33 < dx> pbunny: i pay $30 per year for this server
15:33 < pbunny> dx: yes, but it doesn't iterate over everything
15:33 < dx> pbunny: to have a server with 32gb ram, you have to pay $100 per month usually
15:33 < dx> pbunny: there are no servers with 256gb ram in this planet
15:33 < pbunny> it's not a real independent world
15:34 < pbunny> dx: LOL.
15:34 < pbunny> there is
15:34 < dx> ..
15:34 < pbunny> dx: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131643
15:34 < Alan> dx: try telling my workplace that :P
15:34 < pbunny> you can insert 256Gb of RAM there
15:34 < dx> fug
15:34 < dx> oh dammit
15:34 < Alan> we're about to get 2 new servers: a 32-core 256GB RAM, and a 64-core 512GB RAM
15:34 < pbunny> i will get one in autumn maybe
15:34 < dx> actually there was a 48tb supercomputer
15:35 < Alan> but big servers are expensive
15:35 < dx> god dammit, i'm the stupid one now ;_;
15:35 < dx> okay
15:35 < dx> how about
15:35 < Alan> and your "average" group of minecrafters does not have the money needed to throw at servers that big
15:36 < Alan> and yet again, putting a really high lowerbound on amount of memory needed by making the usage scale with world size is horrible
15:36 < dx> pbunny: if you can tell me about a dedicated non-collocated service that provides 256gb ram, i'd love to know its price
15:36 < pbunny> dx: why not just buy one?
15:36 < pbunny> it's cheaper and better privacy
15:36 < dx> ..
15:37 < dx> okay i'm bored of this
15:37 < dx> bye
15:37 < pbunny> dx: imagine a hosting provider will read the emails and passwords of users of mc, then hacks their emails (as 99% of people use the same password everywhere)
15:37 < pbunny> and they all will blame you for that
15:37 < pbunny> how can you just trust your data to somebody you never saw
15:37 < dx> please don't ping me anymore, thank you.
15:38 < pbunny> also he can steal your code and run his own server, etc
15:38 < pbunny> ok
15:38 < jast> that's very simple: you make an agreement with the hoster to not do that. if they do it anyway, you sue them.
15:38 < Alan> "steal your code"
15:38 < pbunny> jast: they can hide all traces
15:38 < pbunny> easily
15:38 < jast> it's also illegal in the first place
15:38 < Alan> yeah, now you're going into the realms of "breach of contract", "illegal" etc
15:38 < pbunny> jast: you can't monitor your hosting provider
15:38 < Alan> running your server in a datacentre already puts you at risk
15:38 < jast> well
15:38 < pbunny> he can do whatever he wants, you can only guess
15:38 < Alan> even colocated
15:39 < pbunny> Alan: sure
15:39 < Alan> physical access = you lose
15:39 < pbunny> that's why i keep my server at home
15:39 < Alan> enjoy dat latency
15:39 < jast> it's fairly difficult to read stuff on a server without powering it off if you don't have the password
15:39 < pbunny> i have 1Gbps connection there
15:39 < jast> you can't do that with a screwdriver and a hammer
15:39 < Alan> you have a very broken/skewed view of what an average minecraft server looks like or should look like
15:39 < pbunny> jast: um, you can even read from RAM on running server with special devices
15:39 < Alan> jast: who says you can't power it off?
15:39 < jast> yes, with special devices
15:40 < Alan> "oops, power interruption"
15:40 < pbunny> jast: hosting provider can have these
15:40 < jast> any hoster who has these special devices will be viewed with, shall we say, a small amount of suspicion
15:40 < jast> Alan: o hi encrypted hard disk
15:40 < Alan> jast: and how do you suggest ever being able to reboot it?
15:40 < jast> (yeah yeah, not perfectly secure, I know)
15:41 < jast> though I suppose you could put the bootloader in a hardware dongle
15:41 < Alan> any method that you can use to unlock the encryption can be intercepted
15:41 < pbunny> you can encrypt all important partitions, but hosting provider can still sniff your password when you attempt to decrypt it (i.e. via ssh)
15:41 < jast> that should make it pretty safe
15:41 < Alan> ... the hardware dongle that's in the datacentre?
15:41 < jast> yes
15:41 < Alan> right, so how does any of this protect you against the datacentre staff?
15:41 < jast> e.g. hardware dongle has a private key baked into it
15:41 < pbunny> my root fs is unencrypted, so in case of reboot i can ssh into it and mount all encrypted partitions
15:42 < Alan> jast: in which case they've got the private key
15:42 < pbunny> but hosting provider would just intercept ssh and get your password
15:42 < Alan> it's almost like people don't grasp information theory.
15:42 < jast> you underestimate the difficulty involved in reverse-engineering hardware
15:42 < jast> especially if you don't want to damage said hardware
15:42 < Alan> why would you need to reverse-engineer it?
15:43 < jast> because the hardware dongle isn't going to tell you the secret key if you just ask nicely
15:43 < pbunny> jast: hosting provider can just use hotpluggable RAID in your server
15:43 < pbunny> then it can unplug 1 hdd and read it
15:43 < pbunny> then plug it back
15:43 < pbunny> etc
15:43 < pbunny> limited opportunities
15:43 < jast> it's still encrypted o/~
15:43 < Alan> jast: ... the bit of code that reads the private key from the dongle can't be encrypted with the key that's in the dongle
15:43 < pbunny> jast: encryption password is intercepted
15:43 < Alan> otherwise it couldn't run
15:43 < jast> the private key is _never_ read from the dongle
15:43 < jast> the dongle uses it ONLY to authenticate you
15:43 < Alan> or whoever has the machine
15:44 < pbunny> jast: can you explain in more detail how will you mount encrypted partitions/disks ?
15:44 < jast> it also contains another secret key used for disk decryption, sent out to the OS after a system integrity check (and after you have authenticated yourself)
15:44 < Alan> jast: the authentication can still be intercepted
15:44 < jast> yes, but since the secret key is unknown, that doesn't matter
15:44 < jast> asymmetric cryptography, you know
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15:44 < jast> challenge-response
15:45 < jast> ever heard of any of those?
15:45 < pbunny> jast: hosting provider can do mitm as he still has all the keys
15:45 < jast> where from?
15:45 < pbunny> unless you drove to him physically and configured server by yourself
15:45 < jast> yes, that's called colocation
15:46 < jast> obviously you can't do any of this if you use hardware provided by the provider
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15:47 < jast> and now, if you've set up a secure server box (with tampering sensors), things should be pretty good
15:48 < jast> I still wouldn't give critical data to anyone else, but we're talking about minecraft servers here, for which pretty much anything is overkill
15:48 < Alan> so, now that we've thoroughly explored fantasy-land...
15:48 < Alan> you don't co-located critically sensitive information
15:48 < Alan> minecraft servers are not critically sensitive information
15:48 < Alan> oh
15:48 < Alan> haha
15:48 < Alan> 2 people saying the same thing, must be true
15:48 < jast> yeah, that's how it works
15:49 < Alan> I hope not
15:49 < Alan> otherwise we're all screwed
15:49 < jast> yes we are
15:49 < jast> boom
15:49 < Alan> anyway, pretty sure my life isn't going to be enriched by staying here
15:49 < Alan> good luck with whatever things you attempt to do
15:49 < jast> took you long enough to figure that out :}
15:50 < Alan> no, i just stuck around for the rage
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15:53 < jast> dx: EC2 offers an instance type with 244 GB RAM for "just" $3.50/h :}
15:54 < dx> jast: nice
15:54 < dav1d> 244GB ram, not bad
15:54 < jast> also 88 bogocores
15:54 < dx> jast: i actually needed to do a heavy video encoding job once, grabbed one server with 48gb ram for 40 cents an hour or so
15:55 < jast> yeah, I did something similar once
15:55 < dx> never knew what the provider was and i paid the guy in bitcoins lol
15:55 < dx> kinda shady but it was little money for what i had to do
15:55 < dx> and it worked!
15:56 <+Fador> dx: and now they have a copy of your videos? =D
15:56 < dx> ...well
15:56 < dx> it was just anime. lol.
15:57 <+Fador> ^_^
15:57 <+Fador> -!- Fador [fador@hentai.fi]
15:57 < dx> lewd
15:57 < dx> a friend had to send his only PC to repair something, and it took a really long while, like two months
15:57 < dx> he had a PS3 but it doesn't support the usual codecs
15:58 <+Fador> like..HEVC ;)
15:58 < dx> so i offered to encode all the episodes he missed from the season, thought it would be fun
15:58 < dx> lol hevc
15:58 < dx> well, actually, no softsubbed mkv and no 10bit. really common situation.
15:59 < dx> nobody supports 10bit ever
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15:59 <+Fador> http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/articleDetails.jsp?tp=&arnumber=6324420 <- I was writing a paper about HEVC
15:59 < dx> whoa.
16:00 < dx> ...but no thanks, i'll pass
16:00 < dx> i barely know how to get decent results with the x264 command line tool :P
16:00 <+Fador> http://www.cs.tut.fi/~moncef/publications/complexity-analysis-ISCAS-2012.pdf my other paper about it that you can actually read without paying ;D
16:00 <+Fador> hehe, sure, HEVC was standardized just few months ago
16:01 < dx> and fansubbers are already considering using it as soon as possible
16:02 <+Fador> well it does reduce the size 50% with the same quality..=D
16:03 < dx> at the cost of a lot more people not being able to watch it!
16:03 <+Fador> sure!
16:03 <+Fador> they can watch it in the *future* ;D
16:03 < dx> actually they did that already with hi10p, and the hardware decoders haven't caught up
16:04 < dx> (they probably don't care about it)
16:05 <+Fador> the switch to 10bit was quite fast after x264 started supporting it
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16:08 < dx> in hindsight, the only decent ways to handle it would be either adopting it ASAP like they did, or not adopting it at all
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16:09 < dx> as in, there was no reason to delay it if stuff that isn't ffmpeg isn't planning to implement it too
16:09 < dx> (ffmpeg as a generalization because i'm too lazy to check alternate software only implementations)
16:10 < dx> (we all know ffmpeg has a monopoly on the codec market anyway)
16:12 < Stormx2> dx, libav? :P
16:12 < jast> libav is pretty much the same thing
16:12 < dx> Stormx2: same shit
16:12 < jast> except it appears to be a pointless fork
16:12 < jast> gstreamer might have it's own implementation
16:12 < jast> s/'//, gah
16:12 < Stormx2> dx, not necessarily, they hate eachother don't they? I think there are differences
16:13 < jast> yeah
16:13 < dx> oh, true, gstreamer reimplements some stuff
16:13 < dx> Stormx2: lol, yeah
16:13 < jast> ffmpeg merges stuff from libav, and libav hates ffmpeg so much that they rewrite everything themselves
16:13 < jast> also they care even less about compatibility
16:13 < dx> is libav only used by mplayer2?
16:14 < dx> they sure know how to get confusing names
16:14 < jast> debian seems to have switched to it
16:15 < jast> for clarification: ffmpeg comprises an ffmpeg command-line tool and libavcodec, libavformat and a few other similarly-named ones. libav comprises an avconv command-line tool and libavcodec, libavformat and a few other similarly-named ones.
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16:15 < dx> yep
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16:16 < dx> completely different groups of people with names that are pretty much the same
16:17 < dx> in other COMPLETELY UNRELATED news, there's a mc 1.5 pre-release
16:17 < dx> i bet you didn't expect me to say something minecraft-related in this channel
16:17 < jast> unpossible
16:18 < dx> the changelog says 'removed herobrine' - that wasn't in any of the previous snapshots, can we get a burger vitrine diff to see if the herobrine entity is gone?
16:18 < dx> IIRC it got re-added in the first snapshot of the 1.5 branch
16:18 < Gregor> Hyuk
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16:19 < dx> oh nice, we actually have a burger diff up already
16:20 < dx> i thought it had stopped working a few snapshots ago
16:20 < dx> thanks to whoever fixed it
16:20 <+sadimusi> I didn't fix it, I mad one manually
16:20 < eddyb> mad?
16:21 <+sadimusi> most toppings still don't work with the new versions :/
16:21 < Gregor> Well, having to do them manually can be pretty infuriating.
16:21 <+sadimusi> especially block
16:21 <+sadimusi> *blocks
16:21 < dx> sadimusi: :(
16:21 < eddyb> so sad the burger machine isn't as automated as it once was :(
16:22 < dx> we can still hire 17 year old employees and pay them minimal wages to make the burgers, don't worry
16:22 < dx> although sadimusi is probably nowhere near a 17 year old burger flipper and he does it for free, so <3
16:25 < dx> the language entries of tile/item are still good enough as a summary
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16:30 < Stormx2> is the pre-release protocol page up-to-date?
16:32 < dx> you can compare the burger output with it
16:32 < Stormx2> Looks like it's all there except for 0x3F
16:42 < pbunny> anybody feels like continuing "why java is bad for minecraft servers" discussion?
16:44 < dx> nah
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16:49 < dx> http://i.imgur.com/kxsS6bh.gif
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18:16 < shoghicp> hi!
18:16 < shoghicp> When an user is killed, it sends the Entity Status packet
18:16 < shoghicp> and after that?
18:16 < shoghicp> so, if it respawns
18:17 < shoghicp> The entity is despawned?
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18:46 < Grum> <pbunny> Stormx2: education is not important in programming <-- he's actually right in that :p
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18:48 < Grum> <pbunny> anybody feels like continuing "why java is bad for minecraft servers" discussion? <-- yeah!
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18:55 < Valdiralita> why not "java is bad for complex games"
18:58 < Grum> hard to define complex; also not true
18:58 < Valdiralita> i just dont like java :)
18:58 < Grum> because?
18:59 < ShaRose> java has some dumb parts, anyone can admit that
18:59 < ShaRose> "unsigned is too hard" - gosling
18:59 < Grum> it has too many libraries? it has too much collected cruft they keep in for 'backwards retardility' ?
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19:01 < ShaRose> "Quiz any C developer about unsigned, and pretty soon you discover that almost no C developers actually understand what goes on with unsigned, what unsigned arithmetic is." - The actual quote from James Gosling, one of the main people behind java
19:01 < Grum> to me the only reason to use unsigned is because .. well there is no arithmetic
19:02 < Grum> just seems easier to not have to worry about negative overflows :p
19:02 < ShaRose> I like using unsigned stuff for packing and such
19:02 < ShaRose> it also makes interop less retarded
19:02 < Grum> yeah
19:03 < Valdiralita> packing is great :D
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19:04 < ShaRose> but yeah, not really a fan of java. as usual I compare it to C# and there are a few things I like about java, but mostly C# kicks the shit out of it
19:04 < Grum> so, is there a 'maven' like thing for C# ?
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19:05 < Valdiralita> http://byldan.codeplex.com/
19:05 < ShaRose> https://nuget.org/ was the one I was thinking of
19:07 < Grum> so, can you properly code C# when you are *NOT* on windows?
19:07 < Grum> does it have a rich ide you can use?
19:08 < ShaRose> monodevelop I guess, but visual studio really is ~that~ awesome
19:10 < Grum> yes, but it doesnt run on anything but ..... the os you do not want to use for development :p
19:11 < Gregor> (Or: Deployment!)
19:12 <+pdelvo> Do you know blockscape? http://www.blockscape.com/v2/
19:14 < Grum> nope
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19:28 < jast> I hope nobody brings up eclipse as a stellar example of a great IDE
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19:29 < Grum> Eclipse is the bestest ide
19:29 < jast> it's so good that people have made data mining tools based on it
19:30 < jast> (OH GOD WHYYY)
19:31 < superjoe> jast, if you're writing java, what's a better IDE?
19:32 < Grum> anything other than eclipse :/
19:32 < Grum> I prefer Intellij
19:32 < superjoe> that's not an answer
19:32 < jast> I'm not writing java
19:32 < superjoe> ok that's an answer
19:32 < jast> I hear netbeans isn't as bad, either... was that the name? can't remember
19:33 < Gregor> I got a desktop with 16GB of RAM so I could run Firefox and Eclipse.
19:33 < Gregor> Not at the same time, of course.
19:33 < jast> yeah
19:34 < jast> I assembled a new PC the other day, with 16 GB RAM, too (finally!)
19:34 < jast> I nearly melted the universe trying run firefox and eclipse at the same time
19:36 < jast> fortunately the circuit breaker kicked in first
19:36 < Gregor> *whew*
19:36 < Gregor> I've actually had the power supply of a computer burst into flames once :)
19:36 < jast> it's an especially sensitive circuit breaker
19:36 < jast> it often switches if I plug in in a device
19:36 < jast> my previous PSU went up in smoke
19:36 < Gregor> As an added advantage, you could also run on Minecraft server, so long as you don't have more than about three users and they don't go too far from spawn.
19:36 < jast> while the computer wasn't even turned on
19:37 < jast> now you're pushing it
19:37 <+Ac-town> you'd also need a ssd then
19:37 < Grum> Gregor: so why did you give eclipse so much memory?
19:37 < jast> eclipse doesn't ask... it just takes
19:37 < Gregor> Grum: HELLO I AM MAKES JOKES
19:37 < Grum> its java, it cant
19:37 < jast> java always takes
19:37 < jast> default heap space size, sure... the rest of the RAM is filled with GC metadata
19:38 < jast> bah, s/space //
19:38 < Grum> :( ....
19:38 < jast> like so many other things, java's RAM usage always scales with the total amount of RAM available
19:38 < Grum> doesnt work that way sigh
19:38 < jast> even if you have infinity RAM
19:39 < jast> then it takes up infinity*0.9 RAMs
19:39 < Grum> if you let it, maybe
19:39  * Gregor munches on popcorn.
19:39 < jast> I am king of math
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19:44 < Calinou> <jast> my previous PSU went up in smoke
19:44 < Calinou> *cough*advance*cough*
19:44 < jast> not following
19:44 < Calinou> 16GB RAM is pointless unless you do video editing or using a ramdisk for a good reason :P
19:45 <+Ac-town> cache
19:45 <+Ac-town> so its not pointless :)
19:45 < jast> does virtualization count?
19:45 < Calinou> yeah
19:45  * Calinou has 12GB RAM
19:45 < jast> and insane programming experiments
19:45 < Calinou> 1620MB used right now, not counting cache
19:45 < jast> I intend to tinker with Slow Fourier Transforms
19:45 < Calinou> with cache I'm at about 5GB
19:46 < jast> (that's not a real thing... yet)
19:46 < jast> well I had 2 GB RAM before, and I had serious issues with that in normal usage
19:46 <+Ac-town>              total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
19:46 <+Ac-town> Mem:      24683072   20179468    4503604          0     742208   16973648
19:46 <+Ac-town> cache everything
19:46 < jast> well of course
19:47 < jast> unless you're using windows, which is comparably crappy at caching
19:47 <+Ac-town> cache the planet
19:47 < jast> and don't forget to cache the cache
19:47 < jast> massive speed-ups to be had
19:47  * Calinou high fives jast for linux
19:47  * Calinou uses xubuntu 12.10, archers gonna arch
19:47 < jast> tbh I'm on windows right now
19:47 < Calinou> ah :P
19:47 <+Ac-town> I'm on gentoo
19:47 < jast> my plan is to run linux in a VM and do most of my work in that
19:48 < jast> but I need my games and also my DAW, and both need windows, and I'm way too lazy to reboot all the time
19:49 < Gregor> <Calinou> 16GB RAM is pointless unless you do video editing or using a ramdisk for a good reason  // OR unless you want to run Firefox *sage nod*
19:49 < Calinou> firefox eats like 2GB with a lot of tabs
19:49 <+Ac-town> only like 1.5GB max for me
19:49 < Calinou> uses more RAM than chromium with one tab but less with 15+ tabs
19:50 <+Ac-town> on nightly with a bunch of addons
19:50 < Gregor> WHY, WHY do people not understand when I'm making a joke *sigh*
19:50 <+Ac-town> we do
19:50 < Gregor> Anyway, my 16GB RAM is mainly for GC experiments and running several VMs at the same time ^^
19:51 < jast> I was aware that 16GB RAM is pretty pointless for normal usage when I spent all the money
19:51 <+Ac-town> imo just buy and max your mobo with ram when you buy it
19:51 <+Ac-town> since ram is pretty cheap
19:52 <+Ac-town> and you can get all the same speeds
19:52 < jast> well, I spent ~$120 on RAM. didn't wanna spend another ~$120 to max it.
19:52 <+Ac-town> what kind of ram?
19:53 < jast> ddr3 1600mhz or something
19:53 < jast> cl9? dunno
19:53 <+Ac-town> spendy
19:53 <+Ac-town> I think I got ddr3 2133 for like 190 total
19:53 <+Ac-town> for 16GB
19:54 < Calinou> that's a lot
19:54 < Calinou> faster RAM gives few improvements unless you use an AMD APU with is IGP
19:54 < Calinou> but if you have the money, why not
19:55 <+Ac-town> it was about thesame as the 1600mhz stuff
19:55 <+Ac-town> so why not
19:56 < Calinou> here, 2×4GB of 1333mhz RAM: 40 euros, 1600: 45 euros, 1866: 50 euros, 2133: 63 euros, 2400: 69 euros
19:56 <+Ac-town> 24gb for that? pretty cheap
19:56 < Calinou> AMD CPUs support 1866 officially, intel 1600, but in both cases you can overclock the RAM to reach its max frequency
19:56 <+Ac-town> yep
19:56 < Calinou> Ac-town: 2x4, get a proper IRC client :P
19:56 < Calinou> × is the proper multiply sign 8D
19:57 <+Ac-town> I do have a proper irc client
19:57 <+Ac-town> might not have the font for that
19:57 <+Ac-town> but jpn and chinese works
19:57 < jast> every decent font has that character
19:57 < Calinou> *buntus just-work-i-ness strikes again 8)
19:57 <+Ac-town> WeeChat 0.4.0 [compiled on Feb  1 2013 02:17:10]
19:57 < jast> and if it doesn't, it shouldn't magically pretend there was nothing there
19:57 <+Ac-town> jast: I have a custom font set for my urxvt
19:58 <+Ac-town> I saw 2?4
19:58 < jast> right, no pity then :}
19:58 <+Ac-town> so I wasn't sure if it was a fuck up on his side or what
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20:04 < Thinkofdeath> Added the new 0x3f packet to the pre-release page
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22:22 < TkTech> Thinkofdeath: Thank you
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22:56 <+Prf_Jakob> #1210 in queue for Oculus, order is ready.
22:56 <+Prf_Jakob> woo
23:03 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: To be honest, I'm more interested in https://getmyo.com/
23:03 < TkTech> (Paired with Google glasses or the like later on, once they can be reflashed)
23:11 <+Prf_Jakob> hmm
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--- Day changed ven. mars 08 2013
00:00 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: (I'm more interested in such technology for mashing up day-to-day things, versus gaming)
00:06 <+Prf_Jakob> ah okay
00:14 <+Amaranth> Prf_Jakob: Off topic: So, how about that mir, eh? :P
00:15 < Stormx2> ubuntu dev reunion time!
00:15  * Stormx2 gets party hats
00:15 <+Prf_Jakob> Amaranth: summed up by "but why"
00:16 <+Amaranth> At least now I know why Alexandros was pulled away from Linaro. I knew it had something to do with mobile
00:17 <+Amaranth> I'm rather amused Canonical and TI sponsored me via Linaro to port compiz/unity to GLES for mobile and are throwing it away
00:17 <+Amaranth> At least that meant it won't live long enough for me to be blamed for it
00:17 <+Prf_Jakob> Hehe
00:18 <+Prf_Jakob> Well I'm hoping at least we can get a good ARM drivers that can be used by Wayland as well.
00:19 <+Amaranth> Sounds like the plan on ARM is to piggy back the Android drivers
00:19 <+Amaranth> So probably not directly usable
00:20 <+Prf_Jakob> yeah
00:20 <+Amaranth> But hey, we put up with copies everywhere anyway, just use shm and accept another copy :P
00:21 <+Prf_Jakob> heh
00:23 <+Amaranth> Maybe I should drop some of these Ubuntu channels and idle in #wayland now, seems like some interesting discussions happen there now
00:24 <+Prf_Jakob> Amaranth: well fair enough of doing their own thing, but they in the prosses managed to take a dump on Wayland which pissed people.
00:25 <+Amaranth> Yeah, that was just dumb considering how easy it was to prove them wrong.
00:25 <+Amaranth> I am interested in how they're planning to handle input though
00:26 <+Prf_Jakob> Steal more from Andriod apperently.
00:27 <+Amaranth> Yeah, seems like the idea is the android permissions system
00:27 <+Amaranth> I was hoping for something more interesting
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12:37 < pbunny> on wiki, does yaw stands for horizontal rotation and pitch for vertical?
12:41 < zh32> http://www.allstar.fiu.edu/aero/images/pic5-1.gif :P
12:41 < pbunny> zh32: yeah, i googled it
12:41 < pbunny> pitch isn't working for mobs, at least for pigs for some reason
12:42 < pbunny> they always stand horizontally
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13:27 < eddyb> zh32: why exis?
13:27 < eddyb> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exis
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13:55 < pbunny> wiki bot not working?
13:56 < pbunny> http://wiki.vg/wiki/index.php?title=Protocol&curid=11&diff=3659&oldid=3647 - i updated 0x18
14:00 < l4mRh4X0r> pbunny, I assume that's not the 1.5 protocol info?
14:14 < pbunny> hm, it was tested on 1.4.7
14:15 < pbunny> well i just switched yaw and pitch fields
14:15 < pbunny> also i fixed comment at the bottom, because when i sent 127 client crashed
14:15 < pbunny> sending 0 0 127 worked, because mob must send at least 1 metadata object as stated here - http://wiki.vg/Entities#Entity_Metadata_Format
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16:22 < ellisvlad> Hi everyone
16:22 <+sadimusi> hi ellisvlad 
16:23 < ellisvlad> quick question about chunk sending :P
16:23 < ellisvlad> If anyone can help, what is the 0x32 "PreChunk" packet?
16:24 <+sadimusi> it's not used anymore iirc
16:26 < ellisvlad> hmm, then I can't figure out why my chunk sending isn't working xD
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18:31 < dav1d> lol
18:31 < dav1d> "Across all D projects on Ohloh, 11% of all source code lines are comments. For BraLa, this figure is only 3%."
18:31 < dav1d> who needs comments pfft
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18:31 < dav1d> the 3% are probably coming from stb_image.c xD
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18:39 < Gregor> dav1d: Naw, there's probably one mis-labeled project that it thinks is D and 100% comments, which single-handedly makes up for 11% of all D lines in the system.
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20:04 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to snapshot [+1/-0/±6] http://git.io/gSVO5A
20:04 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 13be25b - Completed update to 1.5 pre-release
20:07 < rom1504> superjoe: hi, I think I'm going to try again to make mineflayer's craft function to work, do you have any idea why it doesn't work and how to make it work ?
20:07 < rom1504> and why the inventory is getting corrupted after a rejected transation
20:07 < superjoe> rom1504, hi. no - I have been holding off until the new version is released, because I think it will be changed anyway
20:08 < superjoe> no sense in doing the work twice
20:08 < rom1504> oh ok, there will be changes about the inventory in the new version ?
20:08 < rom1504> when should it be released ?
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20:09 < superjoe> http://www.mojang.com/2013/03/minecraft-redstone-update-pre-release/
20:09 < superjoe> march 13
20:11 < rom1504> oh, good
20:11 < rom1504> let's wait then
20:11 < superjoe> ok
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20:29 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 11 commits to master [+58/-0/±49] http://git.io/KEyA6w
20:29 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 3c84ee8 - Initial update to 13w02a
20:29 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 480fd3c - Added nether quartz drop
20:29 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 362a70f - Merge branch 'master' into snapshot
20:29 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn de7cfbd - Added Minecart with TNT
20:29 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 527f2eb - Merge branch 'snapshot' of https://github.com/SirCmpwn/Craft.Net
20:29 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 7f83330 - Updated to 13w03a protocol
20:29 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 4f908e4 - Added dropper block
20:29 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn b48139b - Added minecart with hopper item
20:29 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 5f18f04 - Added log-like quartz orientation
20:29 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn dbd3237 - Updated version info in readme
20:29 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 76ff153 - Merge branch 'snapshot' of https://github.com/SirCmpwn/Craft.Net
20:29 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to snapshot [+2/-0/±3] http://git.io/wV33_A
20:29 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 7404dc9 - Added scoreboard management to Craft.Net.Server
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22:36 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to snapshot [+1/-0/±6] http://git.io/ovrYww
22:36 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn d4585dc - Added team support
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22:50 < Not-001> [fNbt] fragmer pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-0/±2] http://git.io/5CtVyg
22:50 < Not-001> [fNbt] fragmer 8afa561 - Improvements in NbtReader error reporting. Added InvalidReaderStateException class.
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23:57 < bobness> Hrm, when I send a shift-click on a slot to the server, and close the window, I don't get any update packets?  ..does the server just figure that, on click acceptance, I know what to do as far moving stuff around in the local inventory (e.g., I know max stack sized, and to add an item to the first available stack and/or free slot, or am I missing something? 
23:59 < bobness> by 'update packets' I mean, 'set_slot'.
--- Day changed sam. mars 09 2013
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02:09 < bobness> If you send a right-click to the server while holding an item, and the slot you're clicking on has the same item (but is full), does this result in an accepted or rejected transaction?
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03:23 < EvokeR> I've been using the wiki to work on a lua minecraft client. Theres just one thing keeping me from logging into a server... I don't know how the server hash is calculated when you decline authentication :/
03:23 < EvokeR> *Decline encryption
03:26 < EvokeR> I've tried what seems obvious (exclude shared secret, replace it with a null char, use just the server id, etc) but no luck.
03:27 < EvokeR> Does anyone here know how to do this?
03:27 < dexter0> Outside of some crappy *exploit* there is no way for clients to disable encryption iirc.
03:29 < EvokeR> The wiki says sending a 0xCD will skip it, but is kinda iffy whether or not it works in online mode...
03:32 < EvokeR> And just doing the encryption won't work... This platform simply can't do RSA in pure lua fast enough :/
03:32 < dexter0> well you can stick around until someone who really knows the protocol turns up and gives you the bad news.
03:43 <+AndrewPH> are all packets encrypted, including chunks?
03:44 < dexter0> beginning midway through the handshake, yes
03:44 < EvokeR> After the client authenticates, yes.
03:52 <+AndrewPH> what's the point in encrypting movement and chunk data?
03:53 <+AndrewPH> seems really wastefull
03:53 <+AndrewPH> wasteful, even
03:55 < EvokeR> Because its easier than only encrypting some of the stream, I suppose.
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04:31 < EvokeR> Does anybody know how to calculate the server hash when you decline encryption?
04:39 < TkTech> EvokeR: Probably, but it's late for most of the guys here. Might have better luck asking again in the morning.
04:42 < Not-001> [fNbt] fragmer pushed 2 commits to master [+1/-0/±8] http://git.io/VYjJ9w
04:42 < Not-001> [fNbt] fragmer ac3ea53 - Documentation improvements in NbtReader, and overhaul in progress for NbtSerializer.
04:42 < Not-001> [fNbt] fragmer fbbcd72 - Further work on NbtSerializer. Added INbtSerializable interface, for classes that want to provide custom reading/writing routines.
04:43 < EvokeR> Alright thanks :)
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05:50 < bobness> Is it normal to hate callbacks?
05:50 < bobness> ..it seems very natural..
05:51 < bobness> ..but so many people use them..
05:54 < dexter0> how to do asynchronous *anything* w/o them?
05:55 < dx> GOTO, obviously
05:56 < dx> you just have to find how to pass GOTO labels as parameters
06:03 < bobness> Already did that with GOTO.  It's better than callbacks, but for some reason people don't like it.
06:04 < bobness> (that was a joke)
06:05 < bobness> I guess it's not callbacks altogether that I don't like.  Event systems use callbacks, and I don't usually mind those.
06:13 < dx> bobness: ...so what do you hate?
06:21 < bobness> ..oh, most things, particularly if there isn't a good reason.  But in this case, it's probably relatively accurate to say I hate debugging callbacks in pre-existing code when they weren't well-organized.
06:30 < bobness> ..particularly when I realize I've been contributing to the mess as opposed to writing a little event handler.
06:31 < Not-001> [fNbt] fragmer pushed 3 commits to master [+1/-1/±8] http://git.io/wL_DDQ
06:31 < Not-001> [fNbt] fragmer 11c6f1e - Added NbtTag.HasValue property. Finished rewriting NbtSerializer.Deserialize
06:31 < Not-001> [fNbt] fragmer cd6a9fd - Added documentation to NbtSerializer
06:31 < Not-001> [fNbt] fragmer 2fca16e - Documented fNbt.Serialization attributes.
06:31 <+Scootabyte> Now, just gotta write some unit tests, and next fNbt will be good to go
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10:28 < Not-001> [fNbt] fragmer pushed 1 commit to master [+3/-2/±4] http://git.io/UWFdEA
10:28 < Not-001> [fNbt] fragmer 8a62d18 - Fixed NbtReader defaulting to little-endian encoding. Added unit tests for NbtSerializer and fixed a couple serialization bugs that were caught by the tests.
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11:49 < Not-001> [fNbt] fragmer pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-1/±3] http://git.io/gXcx5w
11:49 < Not-001> [fNbt] fragmer 0198010 - Removed NbtIgnoreOnNull attribute. Now all properties with null value are ignored. NbtSerializer will now use DefaultValueAttribute to optionally initialize omitted properties while deserializing.
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12:07 <+Amaranth> Well, dang, it looks like vmwgfx doesn't work with gnome-shell
12:08 <+Amaranth> Err, what channel am I in?
12:08 < edk> mcdevs, apparently
12:09 < edk> it's official, minecraft is going to use gnome-shell as its HUD
12:15 < dx> edk: not minecraft, just bukkit
12:15 < edk> oh?
12:15 < dx> Amaranth is a bukkit dev :P
12:16 <+Amaranth> I'm trying to abandon Ubuntu and failing
12:16 < edk> yes..
12:16 < edk> Amaranth, in favour of?
12:16 <+Amaranth> Obvious choice: Fedora
12:16 < dx> heh
12:17 <+Amaranth> gnome-shell works surprisingly well with llvmpipe (software rendering) while running virtualized
12:17 < dx> sweet
12:17 < dx> but i'm pretty sure that if you use virtualbox you get opengl in the VM too
12:18 <+Amaranth> I may or may not have put some time in to making compiz work correctly with vmwgfx so I guess I shouldn't be surprised gnome-shell falls over
12:18 < dx> oh, vmware
12:19 < dx> Amaranth: is your host windows?
12:19 <+Amaranth> No
12:19 < dx> oh ok
12:22 < dx> i think the only point of using vmware is getting emulated directx with a linux host.. and the performance is terrible anyway
12:23 < dx> minecraft inside virtualbox "works" for me, with 5 fps and bottlenecking horribly on CPU
12:23 < dx> but it's good enough to do some tests
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15:11 < edk> Sietsem, ಠ_ಠ
15:15 < TobiX> Yay, Public away messages, those were already uncool 15 years ago...
15:48 < edk> they became uncool the same day they were invented
16:08 <+ammar2> edk: still better than the "Now listening to" messages
16:09 < edk> ammar2, that's true I suppose
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19:28 < EvokeR> Does anybody know how to calculate the server hash when you decline protocol encryption?
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19:48 < Gregor> EvokeR: It's just "-"
19:48 < Gregor> Err, wait
19:48 < Gregor> You can't decline encryption.
19:48 < Gregor> You can decline authentication.
19:48 < Gregor> If you decline authentication it's "-"
19:50 < EvokeR> I thought I could send a 0xCD with a payload of 0 to bypass encryption. Or does that only work in offline mode?
20:10 <+Fador> EvokeR: send login response (0x01) instead of encryption request (0xFD) to skip encryption
20:10 <+Fador> and yeah, you can only skip encryption in "offline mode" ;)
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20:12 <+Amaranth> It's also a quirk that is probably unintended so I would make sure you can actually deal with encryption too
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20:15 <+Fador> (privmsg'd the last few lines)
20:17 < Evoker> Well I can deal with encryption... The problem is my pure lua implementation takes five and a half minutes to calculate the RSA :/
20:19 < edk> haha
20:21 < Evoker> I managed to get it down from around half an hour :P
20:21 <+Fador> =D
20:22 <+Fador> ..use some external software to calculate it and then just reuse?
20:23 < Evoker> If only... Sadly I can't do that on my iPhone :/ :3
20:24 < Evoker> And the verify token gets in the way :/
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20:25 < Evoker> And I just realized the verify token is encrypted separately from the shared secret X/
20:28 < Evoker> (By external software I thought you meant C library :P)
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20:30 <+Fador> well that's what I thought you might want to use but...=)
20:31 <+Fador> but sure you can just create one RSA keypair with any software and just..use it
20:33 < Evoker> Yeah that would be ideal, but Im not in that much control of the environment... I'm trying to use an ios lua app with a socket library :/
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20:34 < Evoker> Yeah the shared secret is easy... If only the verify token was in aes...
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20:37 <+Fador> I don't even remember how that whole encryption works, I coded it to my server right after it was taken into use
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20:47 < TkTech> Evoker: No access to luajit? This is a prime candidate to greatly benefit from JIT'ing.
20:48 < Evoker> Hah. I don't blame you. For most platforms you just import a crypto library and you're done. Honestly I don't know why they did anything beyond the sha1 to prevent the man-in-the-middle attacks...
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20:51 < Evoker> Yeah luajit would be great. But on an iPhone... Well I'm not an ios dev. So not happening anytime soon :/
20:55 < Evoker> I just want logging in and chat working. I didn't think I was asking that much when I started this project. :/
20:55 < Gregor> <Fador> and yeah, you can only skip encryption in "offline mode" ;) // I had no idea you could bypass encryption in offline mode... would've made testing much easier X-D
20:56 <+Fador> Gregor: yeah, I noticed you _can_ do that..after I had implemented the encryption ;D
20:57 < Gregor> I wonder if the upstream server allows you to start unencrypted, play that way for a bit, then do the encryption handshake later X-D
21:00 <+Fador> I dont think so ;)
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21:04 < Evoker> Yeah that would require both the client and the server to shut up until the handshake finishes. ;)
21:14 < Gregor> Mmmm, Idonno, depends on how it's implemented. Other things could go on so long as there's a very clear "flag point" for both sides (which there almost assuredly is not, or one direction is predicated on the other and so would fail in unpredicable ways)
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22:05 < EvokeR> Well that didn't work. I tried sending 0xCD01 as a keep-alive. Apparently the login process is timed, not just a timeout :/
22:33 < Grum> oh yes it is
22:33 < Grum> EvokeR: just for the reason you are messing around with it ;P
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22:21 <+AndrewPH> TkTech: https://github.com/Herzult/SimplePHPEasyPlus wow this looks incredible. i might start using this for everything.
22:21 <+AndrewPH> really simplifies one of the most difficult php issues.
22:21 < TkTech> Haha
22:21 < TkTech> That was on reddit a few months ago, the comments on that thread were hilarious.
22:22 < TkTech> I think "Enterprise" was mentioned about 9001 times
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01:18 < MooseElkingtons> what happened to wiki.vg? o_O
01:19 < dexter0> nothing?
01:19 < MooseElkingtons> that was odd.
01:20 < MooseElkingtons> the page wasn't loading any content.
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01:39 < dreadiscool> Hi! Does anyone know how to enable AES encryption on a datainputstream and dataoutputstream?
01:39 < dreadiscool> I have all the the prerequisites set up, the key and all
01:39 < dreadiscool> And I have the socket
01:40 <+sadimusi> java?
01:40 < dreadiscool> Yeah
01:40 <+sadimusi> the easiest way is to use bouncycastle
01:40 < dreadiscool> Trying to make a client :o
01:40 < dreadiscool> :3
01:40 < dreadiscool> Well, I already set up RSA and all those shenanigans without bouncy, is there a way to do it without bouncy?
01:41 <+sadimusi> I don't think so
01:41 <+sadimusi> you can probably reuse some of this https://github.com/SimpleServer/SimpleServer/blob/master/src/simpleserver/stream/Encryption.java
01:41 < dreadiscool> Kool, thanks, will take a look (:
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01:55 <+md_5> dreadiscool / sadimusi you atcually can
01:56 <+md_5> Check out BungeeCord/EncryptionUtil
02:04 < dreadiscool> Thanks md_5 :D
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02:52 < Stormx2> Here's something interesting for you all
02:52 < Stormx2> the 'show nameplate' thing is in EntityLiving, not EntityCreature
02:53 < Stormx2> which means it may be possible to hide player nameplates
02:58 < dreadiscool> Hmm, can someone help me with this
02:58 < dreadiscool> I have some kind of login system set up
02:58 < dreadiscool> http://pastie.org/6447464
02:58 < dreadiscool> But, I'm having trouble getting past encryption
02:59 < dreadiscool> Once I enable AES encryption, everything just breaks down and locks up
03:03 < dreadiscool> Yay, I got it to work :D
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09:37 < pbunny> hi.
09:38 < pbunny> clients show message like "Item entity 12 has no item?!" in console for every entity i dump
09:39 < pbunny> i send 0x28 in separate packet right after 0x17
09:39 < pbunny> items are shown correctly in clients, but these messages concern me
09:40 < pbunny> what is the right way to spawn item?
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11:04 < rom1504> pbunny: i think i saw these messages when connected to a vanilla server
11:04 < pbunny> rom1504: do you see them every time?
11:05 < pbunny> because clients see them for every item i spawn
11:07 < rom1504> I don't know
11:27 < SinZ> what version are you developing for?
11:40 < pbunny> 1.4.7
11:41 < pbunny> iirc protocol hasn't changed in 1.5
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12:08 < SinZ> it did...
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12:20 < pbunny> what packet should i use to show player's held item to other players?
12:20 < pbunny> i.e. if he's holding a diamond sword
12:21 <+Fador> Entity Equipment (0x05) should do that
12:27 < pbunny> thx
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12:36 < pbunny> http://wiki.vg/Protocol#Player_List_Item_.280xC9.29
12:36 < pbunny> "The server sends one packet per user per tick, amounting to 20 packets/s for 1 online user, 40 for 2, and so forth. "
12:36 < pbunny> oh god why?
12:36 < pbunny> why not just send 1 packet to everybody when some player's state changes?
12:37 < pbunny> will it be okay with vanilla client?
12:38 < Stormx2> pbunny, I documented that when 1.9pre came out. It may not be true anymore.;
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12:50 < SinZ> pbunny: thats how vannila originally does it, and bukkit were fast to change that on their software wrapper
12:51 < SinZ> client really doesn't enforce the packet per tick rule
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16:03 < Stormx2> Hey folks. Does anyone know if and where `save-off` / `save-on` are stored? Doesn't seem to be in server.properties or level.dat. Do I need to turn it off every boot?
16:04 < jast> I'd guess so... I think it's mostly designed for temporary use when you want to backup the world
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16:07 < pbunny> i have some weird problems with 0x23 (entity headlook) packet
16:07 < pbunny> player's head just can't show up right
16:08 < pbunny> is the wiki correct?
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16:16 < pbunny> weird.. when i send 0x23 later, it's fine. but not after 0x14
16:16 < pbunny> though i send the same value as yaw
16:17 < pbunny> what is the right time to send first 0x23 of player to another player when the latter joins?
16:18 < pbunny> if i sent 0x23 right after 0x14, head stays unturned (yaw 0), regardless of yaw of the body (which is correctly sent in 0x14)
16:18 < pbunny> when i send it later (i.e. when player turns) it's fine
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16:24 < pbunny> and if i don't send headlook packet after 0x14, head is at yaw 0 anyway
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21:13 < dreadiscool> I'm trying to write a client for Minecraft, and I'm getting stuck on this part
21:13 < dreadiscool> Enabling AES encryption
21:13 < dreadiscool> Is the key for the AES the shared secret that the client generates?
21:13 < dreadiscool> http://wiki.vg/Protocol_Encryption
21:13 < dreadiscool> First time dealing with network crypto :3
21:14 < Gregor> Yes.
21:17 < dreadiscool> Yeah, the 16 byte long shared secret that the client generates, right?
21:18 < Gregor> Yes.
21:19 < Gregor> It also uses it as the initialization vector, which is one of those things that sounds like a bad idea and probably is.
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21:20 < dreadiscool> Initialization vector?
21:20 < dreadiscool> What is that? D:
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--- Log closed lun. mars 11 21:45:38 2013
--- Log opened lun. mars 11 21:46:13 2013
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21:46 !card.freenode.net [freenode-info] channel flooding and no channel staff around to help? Please check with freenode support: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp
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23:40 < dreadiscool> Can someone please help me
23:43 < dreadiscool> WHenever I try to write a client to connect to a mc server, it fails
23:43 < dreadiscool> http://pastie.org/6455688#
23:44 < dreadiscool> The moment I send the 0xCD client statuses packet, it disconnects me with 'Failed to verify username'
23:44 < dreadiscool> I've figured out that it is because my serverid or something doesn't match when I check joinserver.jsp or whatever
23:44 < dreadiscool> But I have pored over this for a lot of time, and I am honestly clueless
23:44 < dreadiscool> Can someone point me in the right direction?
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23:52 < dreadiscool> Ah I figured it out
23:53 < dreadiscool> Thanks everyone for your help, especially you md_5. You're my favorite developer ;p
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08:54 < pbunny> hi
08:54 < pbunny> any useful tool to find mutex race conditions in C ?
08:54 < pbunny> or lack of mutexes
08:55 < pbunny> i.e. detect when one thread can intervene with another, or when they can theoretically lock each other
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15:18 < pbunny> http://wiki.vg/Protocol#Open_Window_.280x64.29
15:18 < pbunny> what is the purpose of title field?
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15:44 < [z]2> when you rename stuff using the anvil, it shows your name at the top of the window
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16:55 < TobiX> [z]2: You can rename storage containers? Since when?
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17:39 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 5 commits to master [+4/-0/±21] http://git.io/gYWi2A
17:39 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn a48573a - Added 13w04a packets
17:39 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn e3b1eae - Updated packet and field names to reflect use
17:39 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 13be25b - Completed update to 1.5 pre-release
17:39 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 7404dc9 - Added scoreboard management to Craft.Net.Server
17:39 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn d4585dc - Added team support
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17:45 < Not-001> [PartyCraft] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/H59Vfw
17:45 < Not-001> [PartyCraft] SirCmpwn 645a4f3 - Update to 1.5
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18:02 < rom1504_> superjoe: it's time to update to 1.5 ^^
18:11 < superjoe> word!
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18:16 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±13] http://git.io/iLTLXQ
18:16 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 67b41de - Improved metadata dictionary usage
18:18 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/BcFgKA
18:18 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 16cf484 - Fixed metadata encoding for strings
18:19 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/F0R20A
18:19 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 6f0a7f7 - Removed test code from ItemEntity
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18:22 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±6] http://git.io/eZbTAQ
18:22 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 64684a3 - Added internal default constructors to metadata items, fixes deserialization
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18:25 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/KgcCdQ
18:25 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 01a0ad6 - Changed metadata dictionary decoder to use correct metadata entry constructor
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18:28 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±6] http://git.io/JmzXxw
18:28 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 73fbbd1 - Changed visibility of constructors in metadata entry classes
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18:34 < Not-001> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn pushed 4 commits to master [+0/-0/±9] http://git.io/ZRCsRA
18:34 < Not-001> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn ff6ff42 - Updated Craft.Net
18:34 < Not-001> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn 29a791e - Merge branch 'master' of https://github.com/SirCmpwn/SMProxy
18:34 < Not-001> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn b9b7b71 - 1.5 update
18:34 < Not-001> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn df5ad82 - Merge branch 'master' of https://github.com/SirCmpwn/SMProxy
18:37 < Not-001> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to gh-pages [+1/-0/±1] http://git.io/Rg-9gA
18:37 < Not-001> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn 0dc062c - Updated SMProxy website for 1.5
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19:31 <+ammar2> from SirCmpwn: "SMProxy binaries for 1.5 are up: http://sircmpwn.github.com/SMProxy/"
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19:32 < ashka> hello there, I just had a little question about the minecraft protocol
19:32 < ashka> how does the packets ends ?
19:33 <+ammar2> unfortunately packets don't really end, you'll have to parse them from end to end
19:33 <+ammar2> as in, parse them according to their format as listed on the wiki
19:34 < ashka> oh, okay. thanks
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21:14 < ashka> btw, if anyone can edit the protocol page on mc.kev009.com, the protocol version on 1.5 seems to be 60 
21:23 <+clonejo> ashka: Registering an account isn't much work ;-)
21:23 < ashka> oh it needs that
21:23 < ashka> okay
21:34 <+md_5> ashka http://wiki.vg/Pre-release_protocol
21:34 <+md_5> Some1 please port over
21:34 <+md_5> I'm in a real rush
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21:50 < ashka> just some silly question about here : http://mc.kev009.com/Server_List_Ping / is every character separated with NUL because of UCS-2 string ?
22:02 < edk> ammar2, you around?
22:08 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/5zJIJQ
22:08 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] ammaraskar b270852 - Fix stair orientation (closes #146)
22:10 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/9MZU0Q
22:10 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn b9f5d58 - Made stair up/down orientation use cursor position
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22:26 < ashka> mmh, could anyone confirm that the string length byte is now mandatory in the server list packet server->client ?
22:26 < ashka> (starting from 1.5)
22:27 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±3] http://git.io/qSQpmA
22:27 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 81365e1 - Fixed door orientation, closes #144
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22:51 <+ammar2> edk: whats up
22:53 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/cgCRNQ
22:54 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 612462f - Fixed hunger/eating issues, closes #137
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23:02 < SinZ> wasn't b.wiki.vg suppost to automatically find updates...
23:03 < SinZ> as it gave up on snapshots after 13w05a, but atleast it found the pre-release
23:09 < ashka> mmh, yet another silly question about packets -- how are fields separated ? analyzing a 0x02 (handshake) with wireshark would suggest that it's NUL NUL, but at some point there is NUL DC1(hex 11) NUL 
23:10 < ashka> maybe this hex 11 is part of something, but I can't find anything on the protocol page or the pre-release protocol page
23:11 <+clonejo> ashka: There are no field seperators, you have to know the lengths in advance.
23:12 < ashka> clonejo, but how do I do that for unknown length strings from the client ?
23:12 < SinZ> a string is a short, and byte-array
23:12 < ashka> (like in that very handshake where I don't know the username)
23:13 <+ammar2> as stated in the data types a string is prefixed by a short dictating its length
23:15 < ashka> oh, derp
23:15 < ashka> thanks
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23:39 < inkoate> Where does the "Server id" string in the 0xFD packet come from? Am I missing where in the wiki that is?
23:42 <+Fador> inkoate: you just use some random string
23:42 < inkoate> oh... so it changes each type the server starts?
23:45 <+Fador> I don't really know how vanilla does it but..yes =)
23:47 < inkoate> got it... thanks very much. :)
23:50 < edk> ammar2, back now
23:50 < edk> you still about?
23:50 <+ammar2> yar
23:50 < edk> am i right in thinking you're a logblock developer?
23:50 <+ammar2> you are correct
23:51 < edk> unless you have an official channel I haven't noticed and isn't on espernet, do you have any idea offhand why logblock would work fine, but clearlog would throw mysql permission denied exceptions?
23:51 <+ammar2> #logblock, esper
23:52 <+ammar2> clearlog needs delete permissions on the db
23:52 < edk> balls
23:52 < edk> i hate connecting to that bouncer
23:52 < edk> it has every permission except for grant
23:52 < edk> but i'll connect there
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03:44 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 pushed 3 commits to master [+0/-0/±3] http://git.io/D4enDw
03:44 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] mappum 5f6abad - Updated to protocol 60 (1.5.0)
03:44 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] mappum 4a366d7 - Added stringArray datatype
03:44 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 07505da - Merge pull request #44 from mappum/master Updated to latest protocol
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04:33 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±3] http://git.io/u1RSTQ
04:33 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 09a80dd - all tests passing with newest protocol
04:37 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/2v1uJg
04:37 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 cf73d4d - Release 0.7.9
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05:01 < Not-001> [mcserve] superjoe30 a31a473 - update minecraft-protocol dependency
05:01 < Not-001> [mcserve] superjoe30 3946a84 - Release 0.4.3
05:09 < Not-001> [mcserve] superjoe30 pushed 2 commits [+0/-0/±4] http://git.io/IKnR1Q
05:09 < Not-001> [mcserve] superjoe30 6bae9c4 - ability to disable proxy
05:09 < Not-001> [mcserve] superjoe30 48fa4c6 - Release 0.4.4
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05:39 < Not-001> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn 74e5ca2 - Update Craft.Net
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10:34 < ashka> has anyone ever tried to respond to 0x02 with 0xfd with a minecraft server ? I'm getting a lot of trouble with the RSA key, the client saying stuff like "java.security.InvalidKeyException: IOException: Detect premature EOF"
11:08 <+Fador> ashka: what language are you using?
11:09 < ashka> Fador, php. :°
11:09 < ashka> I guess my key is in the wrong format, I've just seen some stuff related to X509
11:09 <+Fador> https://github.com/fador/mineserver/blob/master/include/protocol.h#L56 <- 0xfd packet generator
11:10 <+Fador> https://github.com/fador/mineserver/blob/master/src/mineserver.cpp#L315 <- and this is how I get the key
11:10 < ashka> oh you made that, I was browsing your code atm
11:10 <+Fador> =)
11:10 < ashka> just seen that you made a RSA key then did x509 stuff
11:12 < ashka> btw Fador, what does your pubkey looks like at line 315 of your mineserver.cpp ? does it has BEGIN/END headers at this time ?
11:12 <+Fador> I don't think it has those
11:13 <+Fador> I used something like http://lapo.it/asn1js/ to decode the ASN.1 format key I got and figured I have to remove some bytes to get the format minecraft wants =D
11:14 < ashka> mmh, okay... just a silly question, I guess there is no way to not send a key with the vanilla client?
11:15 <+Fador> well...
11:16 < ashka> I tried sending right away others packets, but it looks like the vanilla client really waits for a valid 0xfd
11:16 <+Fador> just respond with a login request to the handshake (0x02)
11:17 <+Fador> but you can't do authentication and you have to send "-" as the server ID
11:22 < ashka> Fador, you mean like, I send 0xFD with - as server id, and everything NUL then ?
11:25 < ashka> mmh, the client still try to get a key
11:26 <+Fador> oh right..well you don't send 0xFD at all ;D
11:26 <+Fador> https://github.com/fador/mineserver/blob/master/src/packets.cpp#L609
11:30 < ashka> Fador, that changes the error message at least D:
11:30 < ashka> when I send the 0x01 the client says it got a string longer than expected (100>16)
11:30 < ashka> yet I don't even send 100 data bytes
11:30 < ashka> and the length of the level type is well defined
11:34 < ashka> (packet screenie http://puu.sh/2htLx/24c3be9b62 )
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11:35 <+Fador> your entity ID is only two bytes?
11:36 <+Fador> 00 b1 -> 00 00 00 b1
11:36 < ashka> mmh, let me fix that
11:36 < ashka> okat that's "better"
11:36 < ashka> got now 1792 > 16
11:37 < ashka> oh !
11:37 < ashka> works
11:37 < ashka> got the downloading terrain screen
11:37 <+Fador> yeah, endianness issue ;)
11:37 <+Fador> =)
11:37 < ashka> and sadly discovering there's no cancel button on that one 
11:38 < ashka> oh okay it times out eventually
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11:42 < ashka> client sending 0x0B before the terrain isn't even ready. Minecraft logic
11:44 < jast> double negation. IRC logic
11:45 < ashka> :c
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22:49 < inkoate> Is the ASN.1 formatted public key in DER encoding? Does anyone know?
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23:31 <+sadimusi> inkoate: yes
--- Day changed ven. mars 15 2013
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02:34 < TkTech> Windows To Go is actually surprisingly well done.
02:35 < TkTech> Very smooth transition, much better than the NIX equivalent. Don't have to much around with the partition tables to great a monster MBR/UEFI hybrid.
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03:35 < Not-001> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/_z00vg
03:35 < Not-001> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn 64763f6 - Added --authenticate-clients to set ProxySetings.AuthenticateClients automatically
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23:30 < dreadiscool> Hi :3
23:30 < dreadiscool> Is there an easy way to set up a "file system link" on a server?
23:30 < dreadiscool> I want to set up two servers that access the same plugin folder
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23:30 < mappum> dreadiscool: on a unix system?
23:31 < dreadiscool> yes
23:31 < dreadiscool> Because I have a plugin that uses System.getProperty("user.dir") to retrieve relative files, and it's not working well with the -P startup parameter
23:31 < mappum> ln -s /file/to/link/to /where/the/link/should/be
23:32 < mappum> the link looks to the program like a normal file or directory, but it reads from wherever it is linking to
23:32 < dreadiscool> kewl
23:32 < dreadiscool> thanks
23:32 < dreadiscool> :D
23:33 < mappum> if you ever need to sound pro, that is called a symbolic link
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23:33 < dreadiscool> :P thanks for your help (:
23:34 < mappum> np :)
23:35 < dreadiscool> Just to clarify, so I don't mess something up D:
23:35 < dreadiscool> if I had /home/A and I wanted to point /home/B to a
23:35 < dreadiscool> i would type
23:35 < dreadiscool> ln -s /home/A /home/B
23:35 < dreadiscool> right?
23:35 < mappum> yep
23:36 < dreadiscool> Thanks, it worked
23:36 < dreadiscool> :D
23:36 < mappum> :D
23:36 < mappum> symbolic links are super handy
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23:54 < dreadiscool> Thanks, it worked like a charm :D
23:54 < dreadiscool> How do I remove a file link thouhg, for future reference?
23:55 < [z]2> rm whatever
23:57 < dreadiscool> Won't that remove the original folder? D:
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00:00 < [z]2> no
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00:21 < Stormx2> hey Grum, would it be difficult to make the "blindness" potion effect affected by the stength multiplier?
00:21 < Stormx2> I think it's just on/off at the moment
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16:49 < Darker> Hello hello, is there anybody else out there?
16:50 < Darker> Hello hello, is there anybody else out there?
16:51 < Darker> Could anyone give me a hand with inital login sequence to mincraft server?
16:51 < Darker> I'm stuck at 0xFD packet
16:53 < Darker> Could anyone give me a hand with inital login sequence to mincraft server?
16:53 < Darker> I'm stuck at 0xFD packet
16:54 < buttscicles> is there an echo in here?
16:58 < Darker> what is echo?
16:58 < Darker> Or was that a joke about me, posting message 2 times?
17:06 < Darker> Could anyone give me a hand with inital login sequence to mincraft server?
17:06 < Darker> I'm stuck at 0xFD packet
17:12 < edk> stop bloody spamming
17:13 < edk> if you can spare the time, read http://mcdevs.org/irc/rules#general-rules
17:13 < Darker> Please take my apologies, but since there is no chat
17:13 < Darker> I doubt my spam (i agree it is spam anyway) may be bothering anybody
17:14 < Darker> I have read the rules
17:14 < edk> well, it's irritating to see activity somewhere and then it turns out it's just a question being asked for the nth time
17:14 < Darker> I have read your wiki too
17:15 <+Fador> Darker: so what's the problem with 0xfd packet?
17:15 < Darker> I don't know what data to expect, and it is very suspitious, that I get 1 as "server id" string length
17:16 <+Fador> the server ID can be "-", meaning it's not using authentication
17:17 < Darker> ah, yea, that is what I get
17:17 < Darker> But then I get negative number for the array of bytes - and I thikn that is where I am out of sync.
17:18 < Darker> I'll share some readable output, just must clean it first :)
17:19 < Darker> http://pastebin.com/aMFuMxeb
17:21 < Darker> After failing to read verification code arrays, I tried to use socket timeout, read till server sends data and then send 0xCD and 0 to get spawned
17:21 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 pushed 2 commits to master [+2/-0/±0] http://git.io/kGsTKw
17:21 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] mappum 169fa1c - Added benchmark script
17:21 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 d335243 - Merge pull request #46 from mappum/master Added benchmark script
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17:25 < Darker> So it seems that I need to understand the folowing data anyway, to have some chance to guess where I've lost the sync
17:25 <+Fador> you might want to print out the bytes you're receiving..
17:26 <+Fador> at least that's what I would do ;)
17:27 <+Fador> what datatype are you using with the array length?
17:28 < Darker> short, just like is advised in docs
17:28 <+Fador> ok
17:28 < Darker> I read two bytes, convert to C++ integer (aware of endianity problem) and I get -92
17:30 < Darker> Printing all the bytes is no problem, but unless I can search some pattern within them (a pack of zeros for example)
17:30 < Darker> I cannot guess what all the numbers means
17:30 < Darker> This is why I came to ask, what values should I expect.
17:31 <+Fador> well those should be positive numbers at least ;)
17:32 < Darker> i think so. Have you any clue on length of the "public key"? I think it should be less than 255, so the actual number will have 0 before it
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17:40 <+Fador> it seems I got 160 bytes when I generated 1024-bit key
17:48 < Darker> I get less data even with the other key
17:49 < Darker> I'll have to win my little battle with compilation errors before I find out more
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18:18 < Darker> So, after the string, I get: "Another 170 unknown bytes read."
18:18 < Darker> I get this data using 0.5 seccond socket timeout
18:19 < Darker> once Bukkit starts waiting for data, the timeout times out and I know I passed this socket
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19:25 < Darker> Does anyone have an idea, what is correct value of disconnect (0xFF) packet?
19:25 < Darker> Currently, I'm building parser of server packets
19:25 < Darker> and when I occur to receive packet with inknown ID I want to disconnect properly
19:28 <+Fador> I don't think the "reason" matters
19:28 <+Fador> but clients are using "Quitting" as the value it seems
19:34 <+SpaceManiac> TkTech: found a Jawa bug, not sure how you want it so http://pastie.org/6574433
19:44 < Darker> Throws End of stream error anyway. Do I have to accept some reply for 0xFF before I close the socket_
19:44 < Darker> ?
19:46 <+Fador> Darker: I think the server should close connection after receiving the packet
19:47 < Darker> Then it is not fast enough. I'll try to add sleep(500) to see what happens
19:47 < Darker> But anyway, it seems I'm out of sync again :(
19:48 < Darker> I'm getting packets that doesn't exist
19:50 < Darker> Yeah, sleep() fixed the issue, I now get disconnect.quitting instead of disconnect.endOfStream
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20:18 < Darker> Guys, can anyone think of a way to ignore 0x68 packet - inventory slot update?
20:18 < Darker> I don't want to parse it now, but I can't figure out how to compute its length
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20:22 < example6> Hey guys, I didn't know where else to ask. Is the 
20:22 < example6> fak
20:22 < example6> missing texture texture--the one for locked chest--programmatically assigned and therefore not able to be changed? I am unable to find it inside the .jar
20:23 < Darker> as far as I know, it can be reskined
20:23 < Darker> on my server it serves for protection area purposes and I think it had different skin
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20:24 < example6> Before 1.5 yes, it used part of the emerald texture and the purple blank thing for missing texture
20:24 < example6> but now it uses a white image that is more than 16x16 leading me to believe that it's just coded into the client and unchangeable
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21:43 < Darker> Hey, how is the slot number defined, when server updates inventory contents_
21:43 < Darker> ?
21:43 < TkTech> SpaceManiac: Thanks, can you toss that on the issue tracker?
21:43 <+SpaceManiac> Sure
21:43 < Darker> In docs, I read: "The structure consists of at least a short, which gives the item/block ID" - so where is the slot number?
21:43 < TkTech> SpaceManiac: I'm traveling today and tomorrow, won't be able to commit until Sunday night
21:44 < Darker> Or does the server need to send all slots to update one?
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23:19 < Not-001> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/D23ReQ
23:19 < Not-001> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn 20d37ca - Update Craft.Net
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01:58 < TkTech> SpaceManiac: I lied; what branch/version?
01:59 <+SpaceManiac> TkTech: master, freshly pip'd
02:06 < TkTech> SpaceManiac: Committed a slightly different fix. <3 for the issue.
02:06 < TkTech> SpaceManiac: Doing anything fun?
02:06 <+SpaceManiac> Just messing around right now
02:06 <+SpaceManiac> I'll let you know, though :P
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02:20 < TkTech> SpaceManiac: If I'm not around and you have something you want/find something broken/think it could be done differently, just go ticket nuts
02:20 <+SpaceManiac> Alright
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04:08 < TkTech> SpaceManiac: Looks like my patch request finally made it into pypy
04:08 < TkTech> SpaceManiac: So Jawa should run on it quite fine
04:09 < TkTech> (Two years after reporting it ;/)
04:15 <+SpaceManiac> heh
04:16 <+AndrewPH> woohoo \:D/
04:16 < TkTech> I don't know why it took two years, it broke so many things.
04:16 < TkTech> Anything depending on ZipFile was borked
04:16 < TkTech> https://bugs.pypy.org/issue912
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05:04 < dreadiscool> I think that login protocol has changed from 1.4 to 1.5 D:
05:05 < dreadiscool> I had a working bot that could login to servers in 1.4
05:05 < dreadiscool> After 1.5 came out, it is hanging on waiting for the 0xFD after sending the login request
05:05 < dreadiscool> I already updated the protocol version from 51 to 60
05:05 < dreadiscool> And according to the wiki, that's the only thing that's changed
05:06 < dreadiscool> Has the login request packet changed but not been updated?
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05:25 < dreadiscool> Ermygawd
05:25 < dreadiscool> :L
05:25 < dreadiscool> Did the 0x02 packet change?
05:25 < dreadiscool> I think that it's messed up somehow D:
05:26 < Scryptonite> Do you have any network data? Or is your application just throwing an error that something is wrong with 0x02?
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05:27 < dreadiscool> There is no error
05:28 < dreadiscool> My application worked with 1.4, and could log in successfuly
05:28 < dreadiscool> After sending the 0x02 packet, the server never sends the 0xfd encryption packet
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05:28 < Scryptonite> It just disconnects you?
05:28 < dreadiscool> Nope, it hangs
05:28 < dreadiscool> It leaves the connection open
05:29 < dreadiscool> For shiggles, I appended a 0x00 after sending the 0x02 packet
05:29 < dreadiscool> Nothing
05:29 < dreadiscool> Then, I appened 2 0x00 bytes
05:29 < dreadiscool> Still nothing
05:29 < dreadiscool> I also tried it with 4
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05:29 < dreadiscool> But still, nothing
05:29 < dreadiscool> The server appears to be waiting for something 
05:29 < Scryptonite> So send 00's until it does something, see how long it takes.
05:29 < dreadiscool> kk
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05:32 < dreadiscool> After it sends the 3rd 0x00 protocol error 0_o
05:34 < dreadiscool> Here's a snippet
05:34 < dreadiscool> http://pastie.org/6578334
05:34 < Scryptonite> Huh. Well your guess would be as good as mine.
05:34 < dreadiscool> I get the message "Expecting teh 0xfd"
05:34 < dreadiscool> But never "finished early" or any other message
05:34 < dreadiscool> that comes after
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06:31 < example6> Hey guys, is the 'missing texture' texture unavailable to be changed? I can't seem to find it. Is it programmatically made?
06:32 < SinZ> This channel is generally isn't for modding
06:32 < example6> I wasn't really sure where else to ask
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06:33 < SinZ> most likely programmically made though, as its when files cant be accessed
06:33 < example6> hmm, ok thanks
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07:56 < pbunny> wtf? client sends bizzare yaw values
07:57 < pbunny> i.e. at beginning it's 0 which is fine
07:57 < pbunny> then if i turn around multiple times it just keeps decreasing
07:57 < pbunny> up to values like -2518 etc
07:58 < pbunny> pitch is always from -90 to 90 degrees, but that's because i can't turn around by pitch
07:59 < pbunny> ah, its on the wiki - "Additionally, yaw is not clamped to between 0 and 360 degrees; any number is valid, including negative numbers and numbers greater than 360. "
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18:24 < Darker> Could you tell me, how arrows are shot? I mean, what should client send to server to shoot an arrow.
18:24 < Darker> I'm trying to make an "artilery bot"
18:29 < Darker> Is it done using Player Digging (0x0E) ?
18:30 < Darker> And if so, where do I put the charge information?
18:30 < Darker> And does it have a cooldown, or the cooldown is just client thing?
18:32 < Darker> Does anyone know how to parse byte representation of java Float and Double?
18:32 < Darker> I do not understand float type at all
18:35 <+Fador> arrows are shot using Spawn Object (0x17) packet
18:37 <+Fador> and you were using C++?
18:37 <+Fador> so you can just take the float/double bytearray, swap the bytes (depending on endianness of the system) and cast the array to float/double
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18:41 < Darker> Thank you, I'll try it :) 
18:43 < Darker> But I'm not sure how to cast char[8] to double. Maybe double*...
18:46 <+Fador> sure, just: double value = *((double*)(&char[0])); or something ;)
18:48 < Darker> 0x17 seems to be only server to client. Even if wiki was wrong - the 1 value is entity ID and it would be exploitable to let
18:48 < Darker> client set entity ID as he wants
18:50 <+Fador> on right, I'm thinking all server stuff ;D
18:51 <+Fador> I think you just select the item from your inventory and "right click"...
18:51 < Darker> So the charge would b calculated server side?
18:51 < Darker> So bad... :(
18:51 < Darker> I hoped to try machine gun, until I find out how to move my character
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18:58 < Darker> Damn, I should've cast all the types like you do, instead of writing classes for them
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19:03 < Darker> Do I have to check other than Player Position and Look (0x0D) to know my position?
19:15 < Darker> Please, does anyone have some good concept on how to implement the client in OOP?
19:15 < Darker> I mean - what classes should I do, if entities should parse their packets or if I should make some parser class
19:16 < Darker> how to transfer data between threads (receiver, sender and player)
19:36 < eddyb> Fador: &char[0] is char, isn't it...
19:36 < eddyb> maybe const could cause problems?
19:36 <+Fador> ..it's a pointer to the beginning of the char array
19:37 < eddyb> yes
19:37 < eddyb> the char array is a pointer by itself
19:37 <+Fador> I know ;)
19:37 <+Fador> so you can just replace "&char[0]" with "char"
19:37 <+Fador> but I was thinking it doesn't look right ;)
19:38 < eddyb> that's what I'm saying
19:39 < eddyb> Darker: I suggest looking at libmcnet. also, strict OOP is too bloated
19:41 < Darker> "bloated"? What does it mean?
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19:42 < eddyb> Darker: you're going to write loads of useless code
19:42 < eddyb> well, semi-useless
19:42 < eddyb> C++ is not as bad as Java for this, but it's still not perfect
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19:43 < Darker> With all respects, I cannot think of better language to make compiled programs...
19:43 < eddyb> "compiled"
19:43 < eddyb> you think too much of performance
19:43 < Darker> As a matter of fact, I do!
19:44 < eddyb> good luck figuring a way to not write tons of code
19:45 < Darker> I bet you'd use javascript :P
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19:45 < Darker> Or maybe, you are talking about Python?
19:45 < eddyb> JS, although I'm using ES6 at the moment via traceur-compiler
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19:45 < eddyb> Darker: https://github.com/deoxxa/libmcnet/blob/master/include/mcnet/packets.h
19:46 < eddyb> Darker: I came up with the idea - I actually had my packet definitions like that for minecraft before he wrote the library
19:47 < Darker> Is there an implementation of theese packets?
19:47 < eddyb> Darker: that list generates structures, parse code and generate code for every packet
19:47 < Darker> oh, well, seems I already wrote some useless code :D
19:47 < eddyb> Darker: yeah, libmcnet is fully functional
19:47 < eddyb> that's why I told you to look at it
19:47 < edk> eddyb, "good" C++ is as bad
19:48 < edk> non-good C++ isn't as bad because you can break the rules when required
19:49 < eddyb> Darker: this is enough to generate all the structs out of that list: https://github.com/deoxxa/libmcnet/blob/master/include/mcnet/structs.h
19:49 < eddyb> edk: good C++ is the the right balance between strict code and hacks
19:49 < eddyb> I would love more optional metaprogramming tools
19:50 < eddyb> in JS I can generate very specific code when I need it first, then use it every time
19:50 < Darker> I thought it was JS you had on mind
19:51 < eddyb> Darker: https://github.com/deoxxa/libmcnet/blob/master/src/parser.c and this is the parser code
19:52 < Darker> Its all very short...
19:52 < eddyb> yes
19:52 < eddyb> because of me :)
19:52 < Darker> I think there is some trick I don't get...
19:53 < Darker> Well, I see tons of compiler commands, but some things, like metadata or item slots are parsed dynamically...
19:53 < eddyb> they are preprocessor directives
19:53 < Darker> I know, I just used wrong name for them :) I'm new to C++
19:54 < eddyb> they are used to expand simple definitions to useful code in different instances
19:55 < Darker> wow, I can't even find out, how to use it. Now I see how much I will have to learn
19:56 < eddyb> Darker: https://github.com/deoxxa/libmcnet/ scroll down for README
19:56 < Darker> I did
19:56 < Darker> already reading it
19:58 < Darker> on_error is called in different thread?
19:58 < eddyb> Darker: forget threads
19:58 < eddyb> they are useless in this case
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19:59 < Darker> well, I thought that sending and receiving are asynchronous
19:59 < eddyb> Darker: PACKET(1F, INT(eid) BYTE(x) BYTE(y) BYTE(z)) // that becomes struct mcnet_packet_1F_s {uint8_t pid; int32_t eid; int8_t x; int8_t x; int8_t y; int8_t z;}; when PACKET, INT, BYTE, and other things are properly defined
19:59 < Darker> Hey, thank you. I'll donwnload it and try it. My code is horrible anyway, I need something better
19:59 < eddyb> Darker: it's just a parsing library
20:00 < eddyb> Darker: whenever you send data to it, you might get called from the parse function if a complete packet has been parsed
20:02 < Darker> Why do all libraries need that cmake? :(
20:02 < Darker> You know... Instead of just including them...
20:03 < eddyb> derp
20:03 < eddyb> you can just include them
20:04 < Darker> Please don't get upset. Don't tell me there wasn't day you didn't understand C++ :P
20:04 < Darker> Imagine explaining it to your mum :P
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20:08 < eddyb> I'm not upset, I'm just trying to point stuff up :)
20:10 < eddyb> s/up/out
20:10 < eddyb> I'm quite tired myself
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20:20 < Darker> That trick with casting char[8] to double does not work unfortunatelly
20:21 < Darker> I get some veird numbers, but without understanding double format, I can't tell if they are wrong, or treat them badly
20:21 < eddyb> Darker: a union is a bit safer
20:22 < eddyb> *an
20:22 < Darker> "union"? Sorry, again, I don't know what it is...
20:22 < eddyb> it's like a struct, but all elements start at the beginning
20:24 < eddyb> union bytes_or_double {char bytes[8]; double as_double;};
20:25 < eddyb> bytes_or_double *foo = reinterpret_cast<bytes_or_double*>(some_pointer_to_some_bytes); foo->bytes will have the original bytes and as_double will have the double value
20:25 < eddyb> I've described it messier than it is in actual code
20:25 < eddyb> Darker: can I see your code? maybe you're doing something wrong. only the part where you have chars and doubles is important
20:26 < Darker> I believe I'm doing lot of things wrong :)
20:26 < Darker> I'll paste it somewhere
20:26 < eddyb> https://gist.github.com
20:26 <+Fador> Darker: you did fix the endianness before casting to double?
20:26 < eddyb> oh lol
20:27 < Darker> yeah, I've made very funny function to do it
20:27 < eddyb> I forgot, in node.js you can just do .readDoubleBE for big-endian
20:27 < Darker> I eve checked it
20:27 < Darker> node.js is not javascript library?
20:27 < eddyb> node.js is the most imporant JS platform ever
20:27 < Scryptonite> It is a JavaScript environment.
20:28 < eddyb> the buffer module has a Buffer class that has read/write methods for both endiannesses
20:32 < Darker> Oh, I just recalled what it is
20:33 < Darker> its that library for the guys who love javascript too much :P
20:33 < Darker> Sometimes I thought of using it, because javascript is my primary language
20:33 < eddyb> it's not a library
20:33 < Darker> well yeah, whatever
20:33 < eddyb> you're probably thinking of jQuery or something
20:34 < Darker> Nope
20:34 < eddyb> primary as in 0th?
20:34 < Darker> 0th?
20:34 < Darker> Its the first I learned and the one I'm best with
20:34 < Scryptonite> Array's in JS start with 0.
20:35 < Darker> :D
20:35 < eddyb> they do in every sane language, that wasn't the joke
20:35 < Darker> sorry, didn't get it :)
20:35 < Darker> Well, yeah, even in some insane langs
20:35 < Darker> http://pastebin.com/kX8vS9qc
20:35 < Darker> sorry that it took so long
20:35 < eddyb> there's a templated swap function
20:36 < Darker> templated?
20:36 < eddyb> your loop does swap(arr[i], arr[i+1])
20:36 < eddyb> you're treating the input as big-endian chunks of 16 bits
20:36 < eddyb> very wrong
20:36 < eddyb> no wonder decoding fails
20:36 < Darker> Now, I don't understand, sorry
20:37 < Darker> damn, damn
20:37 < eddyb> in big endian a certain group of bytes is in the inverse order
20:37 < Darker> something is wrong, you're right
20:37 < Darker> But how do I access 8 bits?
20:37 < eddyb> derp
20:38 < eddyb> there's no way to change the entire packet to little endian
20:38 < eddyb> you have to do it for every thing you read
20:38 < Darker> I'm not doing that!
20:38 < Darker> I only swap what is to be swapped!
20:38 < eddyb> ok then
20:38 < Darker> I call my swap function for each (double)
20:38 <+Fador> you have to swap the last byte with the first and so on
20:38 < eddyb> for(int i = 0; i < length/2; i++) swap(arr[i], arr[length-i-1]);
20:39 < eddyb> Darker: ^^ that should be the swapping loop
20:39 < Darker> Well, that is what I did wrong. I swaped bytes next to each other
20:39 < Darker> I'm tired too
20:39 < Darker> forgot what endianity means :D
20:39 < Darker> by the way, where does double store the floating point position?
20:40 <+Fador> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-precision_floating-point_format
20:48 < Darker> Man...! It works :)
20:48 < Darker> thank you so much :)
20:48 < eddyb> np
20:49 < eddyb> btw, that function is highly inefficient
20:49 < Darker> why?
20:49 < eddyb> unless the compiler unrolls the loop and sees you're doing endianness conversion
20:50 < Darker> And that can be done faster?
20:50 < Darker> I only can think of telling the system to start reading from the other side. And that is impossible I guess
20:51 < Darker> I think I just found an error on the wiki
20:52 < Darker> They say: "When this packet is sent from the server, the 'Y' and 'Stance' fields are swapped. "
20:52 < Darker> Normal order is X,Y,Stance,Z
20:52 < Darker> Swaped would be X,Y,Z,Stance
20:53 < Darker> I have to skip 8 bytes after reading Y - so the normal order is the one the server uses
20:54 < eddyb> for 32bits (an int): (x >> 24) | (x >> 8) & 0xff00 | (x << 8) & 0xff0000 | (x << 24)
20:54 < eddyb> if I got that right, that expression will be converted to a single bswap instruction on x86
20:56 < eddyb> dammit the llvm demo is disabled
20:59 < Darker> But this is something you cannot expect me to understand :D 
20:59 < eddyb> Darker: gcc does this optimization on -O2
20:59 < Darker> Well, I'm on windows, and what worse, in VC++
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20:59 < eddyb> bswap   %eax; for: echo 'int main(int x) {return (x >> 24) | (x >> 8) & 0xff00 | (x << 8) & 0xff0000 | (x << 24);}' | gcc -x c -o test.s -S -O2 -
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20:59 < eddyb> Darker: that's suicidal
20:59 < Darker> because  failed to compile boost for MinGW
21:00 < eddyb> you don't really need boost for this. and there should be a compiled version already
21:00 < Darker> I need the program to be 100% windows/linux compatible
21:00 < eddyb> seriously, programming on windows is a sin
21:00 < eddyb> Darker: then work on linux and use mingw to crosscompile things for windows
21:01 < Darker> My laptop has windows and I use them more
21:01 < Darker> for linux programing, I used debian in virtual PC
21:01 < Darker> It means no problem, but I cannot copy-paste so easily then
21:02 < eddyb> Darker: heh, debian, do you get gcc version 4.7.2 20130108 there?
21:02 < Darker> :D
21:02 < eddyb> I know debian is behind with versions
21:03 < Darker> I don't even know the main number of the version
21:03 <+Fador> gcc (Debian 4.4.5-8) 4.4.5
21:03 < Darker> I used it to create server and that is half a year ago
21:03 <+Fador> current stable ;)
21:03 < eddyb> I think that gcc version is the release version (basically very old and more than stable) for the latest openSUSE release
21:03 < eddyb> Fador: wtf that's years old
21:03 < eddyb> at least two
21:03 < Darker> But I think you'd like the project I was doing back then
21:03 < eddyb> that's not stable, that's ancient
21:04 <+Fador> well..ofc that depends on the age of the viewer =b
21:05 < eddyb> I was using 4.7 more than an year ago
21:05 < eddyb> back then it was turning stable
21:06 < Darker> But its true that in linux, everything was way easier
21:06 < eddyb> Fador: GCC 4.4.5	October 1, 2010
21:06 < Darker> like sockets and threads (my favorite topic)
21:07 < eddyb> threads are evil
21:07 < eddyb> at least the traditional ones
21:07 < Darker> Omg, I feel so guilty, when I now opened the debian
21:07 < Darker> and saw the code I've left months ago
21:07 < Darker> abandoned :D
21:08 < Darker> Still here, waiting to be fixed
21:08 < eddyb> Darker: node.js is async and works on windows, linux, mac osx and on some ARM devices (as long as there's a port)
21:08 < Darker> I'm sure about that
21:09 < Darker> So evel that satan must feel ashamed
21:09 < Darker> *evil
21:09 < Darker> But I still have a pride :D
21:10 < eddyb> so stable is 4.7
21:10 < eddyb> latest gcc47 is 4.7.2_20130205
21:11 < Darker> Do I have to send my position when I'm still?
21:13 < eddyb> https://build.opensuse.org/package/show?project=devel%3Agcc&package=cross-aarch64-gcc48-icecream-backend that's confusing... I think someone wanted to make the ultimate gcc cross-compiler
21:14 < eddyb> and it's 4.8.0_20130308 (9 days ago) which is a decent up-to-date "unstable" version
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21:24 < eddyb> oh, this is nice, even better install progress in this latest zypper version
21:28 <+AndrewPH> I wonder if somebody's made a linux distro where it installed the unstable versions of old software.
21:28 <+AndrewPH> installs even
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22:53 < Darker> I still don't understand that "absolute integer"
22:53 < edk> <eddyb> Darker: node.js is async and works on windows, linux, mac osx and on some ARM devices (as long as there's a port)
22:53 < edk> anything works on any device, as long as there's a port
22:54 < Darker> ikr
22:55 < Darker> You are not first to recomend me node.js
22:56 < inkoate> What are the reasons that session.minecraft.com would send a client to my server a "Bad Login" response?
22:56 < Darker> Wrong password is one even I can figure out
22:57 < edk> That would be the login server
22:57 < inkoate> Yeah, this is encryption related, I'm thinking.
22:57 < edk> session returns bad login if you don't give it a proper (logged in) session id, iirc
22:57 < inkoate> the client I'm using is vanilla minecraft, the server I'm writing.
22:58 < inkoate> so its almost certainly something in the FD packet I'm sending.
22:58 < edk> oh right, misread
23:00 < Darker> Is there some legitimate way how to figure out protocol version?
23:00 < Darker> When I was trying to send login packet to server
23:01 < Darker> I had to bruteforce the protocol version by sending multiple requests (and iterating version field) until the server accepted
23:01 < edk> it's sent in the new-style server list ping
23:01 < edk> s/ping/pong/
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23:03 < Darker> You mean that one that is get before login?
23:04 < edk> well, it's in a separate exchange
23:04 < edk> but yes, before login
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23:10 < inkoate> oh
23:10 < inkoate> huh, I restarted the minecraft client and it worked... got an FC response!
23:45 < Darker> Guys, if I store mob entiti IDs in array (vector), do I have to check if I already have this entity ID for Mob spawn packets?
23:46 < Darker> Does the server send Mob spawn multiple times for one mob?
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00:32 < Darker> So I found it out - seems there are no multiply sent mob IDs
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00:48 <+Amaranth> Darker: I _think_ that'll actually "crash" the client
00:48 <+Amaranth> But it might just remove the old mob and put in the new one
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00:56 < Darker> I'm creating client, not server, but I still need to have only one of every ID in my array
00:56 < Darker> because its not complicated, I've implemented update of old member anyway
00:57 < Darker> Now I'm trying to auto attack close entities and its pain
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01:45 < Darker> Attach Entity (0x27)  seems to indicate players that are looking in their inventory
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01:49 < Not-001> [fNbt] fragmer pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-5/±3] http://git.io/0Bq-ug
01:49 < Not-001> [fNbt] fragmer 143c041 - Axed NbtSerializer subproject. It wasn't as effective or efficient as expected.
01:49 < Not-001> [fNbt] fragmer c89e064 - Updated the changelog with additions from 0.5.0
02:03 <+Amaranth> Darker: afaik the client does not actually tell the server it opened its own inventory
02:04 <+Amaranth> Darker: It just tells it about updates to said inventory
02:04 < Darker> Maybe, I just see that I received that packet whenever the other character had open inventory (so that i could escape the window with mouse)
02:05 < Darker> I will test it more of course
02:24 < Not-001> [fNbt] fragmer pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±3] http://git.io/CRLFoQ
02:24 < Not-001> [fNbt] fragmer 4fb91bc - Updated readme, changelog, and doxyfile.
02:37 < Not-001> [fNbt] fragmer pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/cz5WIg
02:37 < Not-001> [fNbt] fragmer 44e3f20 - Fixed URLs in readme
02:38 < Not-001> [fNbt] fragmer pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/OlFKgg
02:38 < Not-001> [fNbt] fragmer 2c85480 - Fixed URLs in readme... again...
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02:41 <+Scootabyte> fNbt 0.5.0 done! https://github.com/fragmer/fNbt#readme
02:42 <+Scootabyte> (fNBT is a small library, written in C# for .NET 2.0+. It provides functionality to create, load, traverse, modify, and save NBT files and streams)
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11:51 < pbunny> hi, is furnace smelting time the same for different materials?
11:51 < pbunny> if not, where can i see some list of furnace recipes with smelting time?
11:53 < pbunny> i don't have minecraft client (and time) to test them in single player
12:10 < SinZ> everything takes the same time
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13:54 < pbunny> http://wiki.vg/Protocol#Open_Window_.280x64.29
13:54 < pbunny> when did "Use provided window title " field appear?
13:54 < pbunny> iirc a couple of days ago it wasn't there
13:55 < pbunny> and it isn't needed for 1.4.7 client
13:55 <+Fador> they released 1.5
13:55 < pbunny> oh, ok
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14:54 < pbunny> Fador: any way to see 'diff' between 1.4.7 and 1.5 protocol?
14:55 < pbunny> does wiki supports that?
14:55 <+Fador> http://wiki.vg/wiki/index.php?title=Pre-release_protocol&oldid=3662
14:59 < pbunny> thx
15:11 < pbunny> "When a connection has been closed by either party the other party will respond with at least 100 bytes, each having the same value. " - what is the purpose of that? o.o
15:11 < pbunny> also, how is it possible to respond anything on closed connection? :p
15:12 <+Fador> I don't do that and it works just fine ;)
15:12 < pbunny> yep, my tests show the same
15:12 < TobiX> pbunny: Burger Vitrine can give you an overview: http://b.wiki.vg/ ...
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15:27 < inkoate> True or false: MC's hash function is annoying.
15:27 < inkoate> :)
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15:32 <+Fador> inkoate: http://wiki.vg/Protocol_Encryption#Client this?
15:33 < inkoate> yeah
15:33 < inkoate> they couldn't just have used sha1? ;)
15:33 < inkoate> or, I mean, regular sha1
15:34 <+Fador> well they just used the java functions available.. ;)
15:34 <+Fador> https://github.com/fador/mineserver/blob/master/src/user.cpp#L1410
15:34 <+Fador> it's not that hard to replicate
15:35 < inkoate> yeah, I'm trying, not succeeding yet.
15:35 < Stormx2> https://github.com/sadimusi/mc3p/blob/master/mc3p/authentication.py#L86
15:35 < Stormx2> That's sadimus-i's implementation
15:36 < Stormx2> fak I tried not to ping him but probably did anyway
15:38 < inkoate> huh, trying to parse that python, but I don't know what the "d >> 39 * 4 & 0x8" means.
15:40 <+Fador> he just checks the most-significant-bit for being "1" which means it's negative number and has to be handled
15:40 < inkoate> oh, ok
15:41 < inkoate> I just cast the first byte to int and see if its smaller than zero
15:41 < inkoate> saw that trick somewhere else.
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15:43 <+Fador> too bad there isn't datatypes that long in c/c++ =)
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16:06 < pbunny> hmm, wtf... sometimes 1.5 client sends slot -999 in click window packet when player right-clicks on empty slot while holding some stack
16:07 < pbunny> slot -999 is supposed to be sent when player clicks outside inventory window
16:07 < pbunny> is it a bug?
16:07 < pbunny> and it happens only on furnace inventory window o.O
16:08 <+Fador> https://github.com/fador/mineserver/blob/master/src/inventory.cpp#L470
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16:08 < pbunny> hmm, nope, it happens in player inventory too
16:08 <+Fador> that part of the code was last changed 2011-03-01 =)
16:08 < pbunny> Fador: well it worked fine with 1.4.7
16:09 < pbunny> hmm, it doesn't just send slot -999
16:10 < pbunny> sometimes on right-click-put of some stack (~ 1/4 of cases) it sends click window packet with -999 slot, and then with valid slot
16:10 < pbunny> like player clicked outside window before right-click-putting it
16:10 <+Fador> oh, ok..that explains some strange behaviour I noticed just few days ago =b
16:10 < pbunny> o.O
16:10 < pbunny> you have it too?
16:11 <+Fador> there's the new feature that you can "paint" the area you want to spread the stack
16:11 <+Fador> maybe something to do with that
16:12 <+Fador> have to test it out when I get home =)
16:15 < pbunny> Fador: in these bogus packets, shift is set to 5 o.O
16:15 < pbunny> so it's not boolean anymore
16:16 < pbunny> Fador: http://dpaste.org/0QK4M/raw/
16:17 < pbunny> thats what happened when he right-click-put stuff to different slots
16:17 < pbunny> at some moment -999 slot came with shift 5, then -999 slot packet was added before valid packet, with shift 5 too
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16:17 < pbunny> when he put items back (left-click) shift is 0 again, and at last he shift-clicked and shift was 1
16:18 < pbunny> hmm, -999 slot packet was added before and after every packet when shift was 5
16:19 < inkoate> I'm presuming that the session server returning "NOT YET" means that I have something wrong with my hash?
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16:20 <+sadimusi> you probably didn't send any hash
16:20 < inkoate> my packet trace says I am, but not the same one as the client is sending.
16:21 <+sadimusi> if you send a username and server id it usually says NO
16:23 < inkoate> I'm sending "GET /game/checkserver.jsp?user=inkoate&serverID=D0011AA1C6FA5850233662D072B86A66C1761318"
16:23 <+sadimusi> it should be serverId
16:23 < inkoate> ohh
16:23 < inkoate> damn case sensitive... :)
16:24 <+sadimusi> the error message is extremely helpful :D
16:24 < inkoate> alright, now I'm getting NO
16:24 < inkoate> :)
16:24 < inkoate> progress
16:24 < inkoate> hashes are still wrong, of course.
16:25 <+sadimusi> you have to make sure you're encoding the public key in exactly the same way as java would do it
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16:26 < inkoate> I'm using the same encoding that I'm sending to the client in 0xFD
16:27 <+sadimusi> the client only stores the decoded key and encodes it again for hashing
16:33 < inkoate> its something to do with how I do negative hashes.
16:33 < inkoate> "Notch" works, but "jeb_" doesn't
16:34 <+sadimusi> what language are you using?
16:35 < inkoate> golang
16:36 <+sadimusi> can't really help you there ;)
16:37 < inkoate> its fairly C-ish but yeah, I know its obscure. :)
16:37 < ShaRose> Funfact, it doesn't matter how long serverID is
16:37 < inkoate> its ok, though, part of the point of this is just to learn golang better.
16:37 < inkoate> digging into byte manipulation is defintely part of that.
16:37 <+sadimusi> checking the most significant byte and calculating the two's-complement should be fairly easy though
16:37 <+pdelvo> it would be pretty cool if minecraft would use aes-ni
16:38 <+sadimusi> it would be pretty cool it would use TLS
16:38 <+sadimusi> right now nobody knows if the encryption is actually secure
16:41 <+pdelvo> just o make it perform better. I can recognize 5x better performance when using aes-ni instead of regular aes
16:44 < inkoate> woohoo, got a YES
16:45 <+pdelvo> congratulations!
16:45 < inkoate> heh, thanks.
16:48 < ShaRose> sadimusi it's secure
16:48 <+sadimusi> I hope so
16:48 < ShaRose> mojang didn't just randomly pick it
16:48 <+sadimusi> :D
16:48 <+pdelvo> :D :D
16:48 <+sadimusi> the had to change it twice because I wrote a simple mitm attack script ;)
16:48 < ShaRose> it was picked from a few choices, and looked over for a good while before it was implemented
16:48 <+sadimusi> *they
16:49 < ShaRose> yeah, that's because when they first implemented it they want "eeh, it doesn't need to be THAT strong"
16:49 < ShaRose> and didn't follow spec
16:49 < edk> the encryption is very shakey
16:49 <+pdelvo> now they just need to use aes-ni and it will be fast too
16:50 < edk> I and a couple of other people came up with a few methods that really don't work by sheer luck
16:50 <+sadimusi> it's pretty good now, but nobody is really sure what the consequences of using the secret as the IV are
16:50 < edk> key == IV is never a good idea
16:50 < ShaRose> no, it's not
16:50 <+sadimusi> (besides reducing the aes rounds of the first round to 9 of course)
16:50 < ShaRose> again, they half-assed it
16:50 < edk> it's a recognized weakness of AES, yeah
16:50 < edk> (not that it's a good idea with any other cipher either)
16:50 < ShaRose> hell, at first we wanted a mac for each packet
16:50 < ShaRose> to prevent bit twiddling
16:51 < ShaRose> but we sort of gave in because that'd be a lot of overhead
16:51 < edk> AES with a reasonably sane block cipher mode is fairly secure, unless you do stupid things that might leak the key
16:51 < edk> not sure that a mac would help any?
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16:52 < ShaRose> I wanted them to use HC-256 :(
16:52 < ShaRose> edk no, just to prevent bit twiddling
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16:52 < ShaRose> it wasn't a very likely attack, since it would result in PROBABLY getting kicked
16:52 < ShaRose> for malformed packets
16:52 < ShaRose> but like I said we gave in on that
16:53 < ShaRose> hell, my request was the biggest change, making it so the client *and* server both have keypairs
16:53 < ShaRose> and login was changed to a signed keypair
16:53 <+sadimusi> HC-256 had exactly the same problems as RC4 did
16:53 < ShaRose> oh, didn't know any came up with it
16:53 < ShaRose> wasn't it the one that passed eStream
16:53 < edk> they should do it properly, signed server and client keys
16:54 < ShaRose> the reason mine wasn't picked was because it scared mollstam
16:54 < ShaRose> admittedly, it'd be a MASSIVE change
16:54 < ShaRose> all launchers would need to be updated and shit
16:55 < edk> I wonder if the current scheme isn't vulnerable to birthday attack on the sha1
16:55 < edk> can't be bothered to find out
16:55 < ShaRose> (we wanted to use SHA-256)
16:55 < edk> that would have solved that problem
16:58 < edk> well, honestly just using TLS would have worked
17:03 < jast> birthday attack on SHA1?
17:04 < jast> highly unlikely
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17:11 < edk> jast, but not impossible, and probably not even difficult for very long
17:12 < edk> just because it's safe for now doesn't mean better things shouldn't be used where possible
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17:12 < ShaRose> to be fair, considering how often TLS has been screwed over it might have been stronger to use the things we suggested to mojang :V
17:13 < jast> I did estimations of the likelihood of a birthday attack succeeding, for something like 2^64 collision attempts
17:13 < jast> it's still extremely slim
17:13 < edk> well, sha1 birthday complexity would be 2^80 with no cryptographic help
17:14 < jast> "birthday complexity"?
17:14 < edk> average complexity of a birthday attack
17:14 < edk> well, iirc it's half the width, i forget
17:15 < jast> what does that even mean
17:15 < jast> with a birthday attack, you have three or four variables
17:15 < jast> and you pick a trade-off
17:15 < jast> birthday attacks have nothing to do with complexity
17:16  * edk can't be bothered to argue
17:16 < jast> (except as a factor to slow down attacks :))
17:16 < jast> well, I just have no idea what you're talking about
17:16 < jast> I can live with that
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17:17 < edk> I can't remember where I read that it's half, but I assume it means: the average number of calculations required to succeed, assuming you can randomize both sides randomly
17:19 < jast> you mean, if you want to have a 50% chance of success?
17:19 < jast> i.e. for SHA1 you need to generate 1208925819614629174706176 signatures to have a 50% chance to create a collision
17:20 < edk> yeah, that'll be it
17:20 < jast> reduce that by just an order of magnitude and the chance is down to 1%
17:20 < edk> once you've got 50%, you're nearly there
17:21 < edk> well, if you can do 50% fairly quickly
17:21 < jast> i.e. with (very roughly) 2^76 = 75557863725914323419136 signatures the chance to succeed is just 1%
17:21 < jast> s/signatures/hashes/
17:21 < jast> i.e. in 1% of cases, that many randomly picked SHA1 signatures contain one signature
17:21 < jast> if you want to do a directed attack, your odds are astronomically worse
17:22 < jast> gah, that i.e. needs some reworking
17:22 < jast> i.e. in 1% of cases, that many randomly picked messages yield a duplicate hash
17:22 < edk> i knew what you meant :)
17:23 < jast> :)
17:23 < edk> well, yeah, it's difficult now, though i think some collisions have been found
17:23 < edk> but give moore's law a few more years
17:23 < jast> and good luck generating and hashing 2^76 messages in a specific target domain
17:23 < jast> even if you manage that, the chance that you have actually gained something is still pretty low
17:23 < jast> in fact, good luck even memorizing that many hashes
17:24 < edk> minecraft makes one part of that easy, since I think both things being hashed have a random number in them
17:25 < jast> what's the attack vector we're talking about here? being able to sign on as the victim on another server?
17:25 < edk> just being able to MITM
17:25 < edk> I don't think it's very likely, honestly
17:25 < edk> just too many parts of it are "shaky" for me to be comfortable
17:26 < jast> well, if we assume that an attacker can only intercept client<->server traffic (unlikely), that's a relevant question
17:26 < jast> IMO it's much more likely that the attacker can intercept client<->login server traffic, too
17:26 < jast> in that case the whole thing is worthless anyway
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17:26 < jast> (iirc)
17:26 < edk> well, the former only requires social engineering
17:27 < jast> social engineering installs an arbitrary "enhancement" on the client
17:27 < edk> just get them to connect to your evil server
17:27 < jast> honestly, I wouldn't even bother with the whole crypt stuff. just get someone to install a new and improved client.
17:27 < jast> anything else is way too much work compared to the possible benefits
17:28 < edk> meh, true
17:28 < jast> the only reason to throw out an encryption scheme is if it the effort to break is significantly cheaper than the benefits
17:28 < jast> (of breaking it)
17:30 < Not-001> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to gh-pages [+2/-2/±0] http://git.io/Z8hVUg
17:30 < Not-001> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn 9a26301 - Fixed typo in download
17:31 < ShaRose> interestingly jast that was main reason it was weakened
17:31 < ShaRose> because they thought nobody'd put in the effort to break it
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17:50 < TobiX> Why not just use plain old TLS?
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18:12 < pbunny> http://wiki.vg/wiki/index.php?title=Protocol&diff=prev&oldid=3694
18:12 < pbunny> please check and accept into wiki if it's ok
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18:15 < eddyb> jast: I think what edk was going on about half the bit length is general attack complexity. I remember reading on wikipedia, that because of that birthday thing, you need twice the size of your hash to have the same resistance against collision attacks that you have against preimage attacks
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18:52 < jast> eddyb: and I think I explained what 'attack complexity' actually means :}
18:53 < jast> the term is actually pretty meaningless
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20:15 < inkoate> can anyone point me to example code on setting up AES? Particularly curious about what was used for IV.
20:15 <+sadimusi> iv == shared secret ;)
20:15 < inkoate> always?
20:15 < inkoate> that's easy
20:16 < inkoate> :)
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20:45 < inkoate> blarg.... I think I'm properly decrypting... I get a packet back from my FC and the first byte always decrypts to CD
20:46 < inkoate> but the second one is always random
20:46 <+sadimusi> are you reinitializing your stream cipher=
20:46 <+sadimusi> *?
20:47 <+sadimusi> (you shouldn't)
20:48 <+sadimusi> you are using 8 bit CFB, right?
20:48 < inkoate> no, I just initialize once
20:49 < inkoate> and I'm using CFB
20:49 < inkoate> as for how big, I just use the key the client is sending...
20:50 <+sadimusi> if you can decrypt a single byte you are probably using CFB8
20:50 <+sadimusi> that's probably not the issue right now, but you have to use two ciphers, one for each direction
20:52 < inkoate> ok, yeah, I set up two stream ciphers, one in and one out
20:53 < inkoate> I have to figure out whether I'm using CFB8
20:53 <+sadimusi> of you weren't you wouldn't be able to decrypt a single byte
20:55 < inkoate> what version of CFB should I be using?
20:55 <+sadimusi> what versions are available?
20:56 < inkoate> still trying to figure that out. :)
20:56 <+sadimusi> I don't know of any CFB versions, the only thing you can choose is the block size
20:57 < inkoate> the block size would come from the size of the key that the client sends the server, right?
20:57 <+sadimusi> no
20:58 <+sadimusi> there are two block sizes here
20:58 <+sadimusi> one for AES and one for CFB
20:58 < inkoate> oh, ok
20:58 <+sadimusi> AES should be 128, but you probably have that right if you can decrypt the first byte
20:58 < inkoate> right
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21:02 < inkoate> This is what I'm working with, the CFBEncrypter and CFBDecrypter functions: http://golang.org/pkg/crypto/cipher/
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21:02 < inkoate> They say they decrypt/encrypt with cipher feedback mode, using an AES block.
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21:06 <+sadimusi> how exactly do you use this CFBDecryptor instance?
21:07 < inkoate> it has a function on it called XORKeyStream which you pass bytestreams to
21:09 <+sadimusi> that looks like CFB128 to me :/
21:09 <+sadimusi> maybe you just have to implement cfb yourself
21:09 < inkoate> damn them
21:09 < inkoate> yeah, might.
21:09 <+sadimusi> it's pretty straight-forward
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21:16 < inkoate> Hmm, ok... did you look at the code of XORKeyStream, sadimusi?
21:16 <+sadimusi> yes
21:16 < inkoate> so, am I right in thinking that because it counts x.outUsed up to length of x.out, its using the 128 bits of AES?
21:16 < inkoate> Instead of 8?
21:16 <+sadimusi> yes
21:16 < inkoate> that is, of the 128 bit block size.
21:16 < inkoate> ok
21:17 <+sadimusi> but you can't just change the block size there to 8
21:18 < inkoate> aw
21:18 < inkoate> :)
21:18 < inkoate> hehe
21:19 < inkoate> no, I'm doing some reading about cfb8, trying to figure out how it works.
21:19 <+sadimusi> after reading this you should know everything about it http://csrc.nist.gov/publications/nistpubs/800-38a/sp800-38a.pdf
21:20 <+sadimusi> note that wikipedia oversimplifies things in this case
21:20 < inkoate> in what case does it not? :)
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21:20 <+sadimusi> good point :)
21:25 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/rVCR1g
21:25 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] mappum 367b8a9 - Switched from constructors to functions in serialization code
21:25 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 7213da3 - Merge pull request #47 from mappum/master Switched from constructors to functions in serialization code
21:27 < mappum> superjoe: i think i would eventually want to replace the reading/writing stuff use native code if it speeds it up enough
21:28 < superjoe> mappum, how much of a speed multiplication improvement do you think would make using native code worth it?
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21:29 < mappum> hmm, well we could make it fall back to the pure js code if neccessary so it isn't a pain to install on windows
21:30 < mappum> and as long as it is like a 30% speed boost it would be worth it (but i'm sure it would be)
21:34 < superjoe> I guess I just don't want to be responsible for maintaining C++ code every time the protocol updates
21:34 < superjoe> but I'm not against you doing it
21:35 < mappum> well it wouldn't be too bad, it would just be a bunch of structs really
21:36 < mappum> i;m not going to do that yet though, because it will take forever :/
21:36 < mappum> but for my purposes less cpu = less instances = less cost
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21:41 < superjoe> gotcha
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21:41 < superjoe> mappum, have you actually exceeded 1 server yet?
21:41 < superjoe> s/server/instance/
21:42 < mappum> well we don't have users yet, but the architecture is there to support multiple servers
21:43 < inkoate> saidmusi: Thanks for the pdf link. I'm going to have to go read it like 482 times then try to implement it. :)
21:53 < superjoe> mappum, maybe try to get a couple users before worrying about scaling\
21:54 < mappum> getting users won't be a problem. we're going for a public technical preview on friday on Hacker News
21:55 < mappum> but right now the server is basically just minecraft classic, we have a lot to add before it's something people will actually play on
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00:49 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/DgYkqA
00:49 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] mappum 2c00c9f - Fixed bug where the wrong type was used when serializing entityMetadata
00:49 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 11b11f0 - Merge pull request #48 from mappum/master Fixed bug where the wrong type was used when serializing entityMetadata
00:52 < TkTech> God I love Sins Of A Solar Empire.
00:52 < TkTech> Excellent game.
00:53 < TkTech> inkoate: Just in case you don't know, you can start typing someone's name and hit "tab" to autocomplete it.
00:53 < TkTech> (I noticed you misspelled sadimusi's name)
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02:04 < inkoate> TkTech: Yeah, I knew that. For some reason I decided to type his out. Only noticed later that I'd mispelled it.
02:04 < inkoate> Thank you though. :)
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02:32 < inkoate> You know, thinking more about what sadimusi was saying earlier...
02:33 < inkoate> If it was a problem between CFB8 and CFB128, that wouldn't show up until the 9th byte
02:33 < inkoate> and I can't even decrypt the second byte...
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02:36 <+sadimusi> inkoate: If it were just cfb128 you couldn't decrypt a single byte at all
02:37 <+sadimusi> The code looks a bit like it's based on wikipedia's illustration
02:40 < inkoate> haha
02:40 < inkoate> which is a bit disturbing, considering.
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08:54 <+Ac-town>  /b 22
08:54 <+Ac-town> argh
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15:41 < pbunny> can i assume that items/blocks in inventory with same type but different 'damage' field will never stack with each other?
15:41 < pbunny> can i just treat them as different types of items/blocks?
15:42 < jast> in the past, at some points it was possible for certain damageable items to stack
15:42 < jast> the stack would then get one of the individual damage values assigned to it
15:42 < jast> it could conceivably happen again if they accidentally make an item both damageable and stackable
15:45 < dav1d> what about wool?
15:45 < dav1d> oh
15:45 < dav1d> nvm
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16:38 < pbunny> when player shift-clicks on item in inventory when opened furnace window, some items go to furnace upper slot, and some to lower slot
16:38 < pbunny> how do i determine that?
16:39 < pbunny> except for trying every item manually
16:41 < pbunny> i assume only fuel materials are moved into lower slot?
16:41 < pbunny> however, workbench is moved there too
16:42 < pbunny> is it possible to fuel furnace with workbench? -.-
16:42 < pbunny> oh, right. thx
16:42 <+Fador> http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Furnace#Fuel_efficiency
16:42 < pbunny> yeah, already found that :p
16:42 <+Fador> ;)
16:47 < pbunny> is bow fuel?
16:48 < pbunny> hmm, nope. it doesn't go to any furnace slot
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17:32 < pbunny> DEBUG(16:6)|parsebuffer()@parser.c:779: player mehiko123 digged out block (type 255) at [768,3114,-103]
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17:32 < pbunny> hmm, some weird player was digging on negative Y position
17:32 < pbunny> cheats/hacks ?
17:37 < jast> bug?
17:38 <+pdelvo> negative y? this cannot be
17:38 <+pdelvo> y is unsigned
17:39 <+pdelvo> it was above 127 ;)
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17:41 < pbunny> hmm, probably
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20:02 < inkoate> Know what's annoying? The way my server hash matches the vanilla client's 2/3 of the time.
20:02 < inkoate> And I can't figure out what's wrong in the other 1/3 of cases.
20:02 < inkoate> :)
20:09 < eddyb> interpreting the hash as a number, I think
20:13 < inkoate> as opposed to a string?
20:13 < inkoate> I'm interpreting it as a string conversion of a byte array
20:14 < inkoate> I get the right result on the three tests from the wiki.
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20:26 < inkoate> I'm thinking it must be something that comes up randomly in my host id occasionally.
20:27 < inkoate> How do people generate their random host ids usually?
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21:10 < eddyb> huh
21:11 < eddyb> I might be clueless
21:12 < eddyb> but I remember something about minecraft interpreting the hash as a signed number instead of an unsigned number or a byte array
21:13 < eddyb> inkoate: number vs byte arrays makes leading 0s disappear, while signed numbers have the sign
21:15 < eddyb> inkoate: those are the only two reasons I would see for your code to work only 60% of the time
21:22 < inkoate> Yeah, eddyb, not sure either. its a byte array, so I'm not losing leading zeroes.
21:27 < eddyb> inkoate: what exactly are you doing?
21:27 < eddyb> inkoate: are you just converting the entire byte array to hex?
21:27 < inkoate> concatenating the server id, the shared secret, and the asn.1 encoding of the public key
21:28 < inkoate> running that through sha1, doing the two's complement if its negative, stripping leading zeroes, then prepending a '-' if it was negative.
21:28 < eddyb> inkoate: can I see code?
21:30 < inkoate> https://gist.github.com/rschulman/5199790
21:31 < eddyb> 0x08
21:31 < eddyb> fail
21:31 < eddyb> so much fail
21:32 < eddyb> that condition should be if hashed[0] & 0x80 { ...
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21:32 < Kyle> mmm Golang
21:32 < eddyb> also kinda silly
21:32 < eddyb> and mixed tabs
21:33 < eddyb> ^ is the Golang equivalent for ~?
21:33 < eddyb> that can be confusing
21:34 < inkoate> yeah
21:34 < inkoate> that is what the conditional says, eedyb
21:34 < inkoate> oh wait
21:35 < eddyb> inkoate: can you read?
21:35 < inkoate> you're saying without the ==0
21:35 < eddyb> inkoate: and 0x80
21:35 < inkoate> golang won't let you do it without
21:35 < inkoate> oh, HAH
21:35 < inkoate> jesus typo
21:35 < eddyb> inkoate: are you dyslexic, tired, or just ... yeah :))?
21:35 < inkoate> just not reading closely...
21:35 < inkoate> lordy
21:35 < eddyb> it's probably the code memory
21:36 < eddyb> it's easier for anyone else to spot a typo
21:39 < inkoate> yeah, always is
21:40 < Flemmard> the worse is when you fix the bug but compile another source .. and spend 1h trying to figure out what's wrong ..
21:42 < eddyb> or you forget you need to do one extra step before you can run the test again
21:43 < eddyb> and it still has the problem and you go back to your code
21:43 < inkoate> nice, this appears to be working now
21:43 < inkoate> Thanks, eddyb
21:44 < eddyb> inkoate: np
21:45 < inkoate> Kyle: Don't know if you were being sarcastic before, but I'm actually quite enjoying golang
21:46 < inkoate> doing this server is kinda just a way to test it out a bit.
21:46 < Kyle> inkoate: I wasn't sarcastic
21:46 < inkoate> hard to tell with text sometimes. :)
21:47 < eddyb> I admire google's attempts
21:47 < eddyb> but Golang and Dart kinda went into a wall
21:48 < inkoate> Yeah, I'm not sure dart has much of a future
21:48 < inkoate> I'm not sure about golang, though.
21:48 < inkoate> I think it has potential.
21:48 < eddyb> all the potential has been used
21:49 < eddyb> and I never liked the half-assed syntax anyway
21:49 < eddyb> my bets are on ES6 (maybe ES7, but that might take a while)
21:49 < inkoate> I find it much easier to read than, say, C++ or C#
21:50 < inkoate> yeah, I don't think there's anything that can shake ECMAScript off its pedestal
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--- Day changed mer. mars 20 2013
00:13 < rom1504_> superjoe: should minecraft-protocol work with node 0.10.0 ? (on my computer it gets stuck in npm install then it says "Cannot find module '../bin/ursaNative'" if i try to use it anyway)
00:13 < superjoe> I haven't tested it yet
00:13 < superjoe> been busy... I just moved in with my girlfriend
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01:11 < Darker> Any idea how to dodge arrows in client? I mean, how to calculate whether the arrow is flying
01:11 < Darker> towards the player
01:11 < Darker> I failed to even get correct velocity and coordinates
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21:04 < dridri> hi pple o/
21:05 < dridri> I need help with my homemade client
21:06 < dridri> *foreveralone*
21:07 <+Prf_Jakob> 2 minutes are like millieseconds in IRC times
21:07 < dridri> ^^
21:07 < dav1d> hi
21:07 <+Prf_Jakob> don't ask to ask, just ask the question
21:07 < dav1d> would help if you could explain your problem
21:07 < dridri> ok, so
21:08 < dridri> i can connect to a server, it sends me its spawn point, my position, chunk data around me, mobs and all..
21:08 < dridri> but when I send a packet to update my position, it seems that it doesn't reveice it
21:08 < dridri> *receive
21:09 < dridri> cause it doesn't transfer chunk data around the new position
21:09 < dav1d> you could use a proxy to verfiy that it gets sent
21:09 < dridri> its a local server
21:09 < dav1d> and?
21:09 < dav1d> makes no difference
21:09 < dav1d> you can still use a proxy
21:10 < dridri> lol, actually its weird since it can receive chat messages packets
21:10 < dridri> and every other packets btw
21:11 < dridri> but how do I use a proxy since the data is encrypted?
21:12 < dav1d> well, if every other packet arrives...
21:12 < dav1d> dridri: like mc3p
21:12 < dav1d> you give the proxy your credentials or you set the server in offline mode
21:13 < dridri> hum offline mode doesn't disable encryption
21:13 < dav1d> oh nvm
21:14 < dav1d> yeah just connect to the proxy instead connecting to the server
21:14 < dridri> ok ill try
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21:15 < dav1d> but it's still strange that other packets arrive
21:15 < dav1d> maybe it's malformed
21:15 < dav1d> but this should disconnect you
21:16 < dav1d> proxy can verify that you send the packet correctly though
21:16 < dridri> I was thinking that it's just because I forgot initialization packets?
21:17 < dridri> I maybe do something wrong after the handshake
21:17 < dav1d> then use mc3p's login verfication thingy
21:18 < dridri> ok
21:18 < dridri> hmm, do you know the command line to run it ?
21:22 < dav1d> can't remeber 
21:22 < dav1d> but it should be in the readme
21:22 < dav1d> mc3p fork from sadimusi 
21:22 < dridri> if I send the PlayerPosition packets 20 times per second I got a "disconnect.genericReason"
21:22 < dridri> ok thanks
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21:36 < dridri> uhhh
21:36 < dridri> this proxy is too old
21:36 < dridri> it uses 1.3 version
22:10 < Thinkofdeath> dridri: https://github.com/SirCmpwn/SMProxy
22:37 < dridri> thx x)
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22:54 < Darker> Of YAW and PITCH, which one determines the rotation around Y axis? The rotation of body?
22:55 < inkoate> That should be yaw, Darker.
22:56 < Darker> Thank you :) So changing Pitch apropriatelly would make character look like he is nodding?
22:56 < inkoate> Yep, I think so.
22:57 < Darker> Thank you very much
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--- Day changed jeu. mars 21 2013
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00:37 < Darker> May I suggest Destroy Entity (0x1D) -> entity count be changed from "byte" to "unsigned byte"?
00:37 < Darker> talking about wiki of course
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03:41 < umby24> does anyone have example code for parsing map chunks in C# that i could use? I'm having trouble parsing them still.
03:42 < dexter0> umby24: https://github.com/SirCmpwn/Craft.Net would be a good place to look.
03:43 < umby24> it has server-side code, i havn't managed to find client side stuff yet though.. I'll skim through it again though
03:43 < umby24> (for map parsing specifically, anyway)
03:55 < umby24> yeah, he doesn't have it parsed. it just reads it and throws the info away
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09:41 <+md_5> Grum you should soo totally refactor Packet.read/write(DataInputStream/DataOutputStream) -> Packet.read/write(DataInput/DataOutput); I know it can be done easily and I would love you soo much for it :D
09:42 < Grum> isn't it lovely when people use concrete classes rather than interfaces?
09:43 <+md_5> mmmm
09:43  * md_5 sobs in a corner
09:43 < Grum> hmz also not so easily done
09:43 < Grum> hmmm nah should not be super hard
09:43 <+md_5> I cannot recall any place where anything implementation specific is required
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09:44 <+md_5> on netbeans you just right click; refactor; change method parameters;
09:44 <+md_5> then you are done with it :D
09:45 < Grum> nope you are not
09:45 <+md_5> If I had a copy of mcp ready to go I would test that theory
09:45  * md_5 downloads a copy to test that theory
09:46 < Grum> i am doing it right now
09:46 < Grum> needs a bit more changing
09:46 <+md_5> out of interest; what needs changing? I cant recall anything off the top of my head
09:46 < SinZ> what is the purpose of the change?
09:47 <+md_5> to illustrate I can ask gru_m nicely to clean up the minecraft code?
09:48 < Grum> euh lots of chained method calls
09:49 < Grum> also some places use stream.read instead of stream.readByte()
09:49 <+md_5> Grum well in my defense the obfuscator appears to get rid of the chained calls
09:50 < Grum> yeah i think most get inlined
09:50 < Grum> why is this so useful btw?
09:50 < Grum> i havent seen/used DataInput and DataOutput often
09:52 <+md_5> for replacing the network implementation
09:52 <+md_5> with say; non blocking io
09:54 < Grum> semi-pointless
09:54 < Grum> i mean you'll have bigger problems than this ;)
09:55 <+md_5> nah
09:55 <+md_5> I just do new DataInputStream(new ByteBufInputSTream(buf))
09:55 <+md_5> but if I can cut one call; and allow more flexibility for other applications; and clean up your code
09:55 <+md_5> why not?
09:55 < Grum> hehe i just noticed that 'PlayerActionPacket' doesnt support y > 127 :p
09:55 < Grum>         y = dis.readByte();
09:56 < Grum> no unsigned byte ftw!
09:56 <+md_5> and help you find bugs!
09:56 <+md_5> well at least we have unsigned shorts
09:56 <+md_5> amiright
09:56 < Grum> hmmm same for TileUpdate
09:56 < Grum> yeah hehe char ftw :P
09:57  * md_5 refactors locally as well
09:57 < Grum> holy crap
09:57 <+md_5> gogogo netbeans
09:57 < Grum> lots of stuff that seems broken
10:00 <+md_5> only 12 broken packets
10:00 <+md_5>  this.onGround = var1.read() != 0;
10:00 < SinZ> no biggy, only been broken for a year
10:00 <+md_5> is that really there; or is it inlined
10:02 <+md_5> done; that didnt take long
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10:58 < pbunny> hi
10:59 < pbunny> i have some weird behavior
10:59 < pbunny> i am implementing dropping of items when chest/furnace/workbench is destroyed
11:00 < pbunny> i sent "set block" packet that sets it to air, then i spawn entities for dropped items and sent "spawn object/vehicle" packets for them, then "entity velocity" packets
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11:01 < pbunny> however, once the block is destroyed, items fly to adjactent block first, and only from there velocity etc is applied
11:01 < pbunny> behavior is the same as if i haven't destroyed block and spawned them inside it
11:01 < pbunny> how so? i sent 'set block' with type 0 before spawning them..
11:02 < pbunny> is it possible that mc client processes packets in arbitrary order?
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11:03 < pbunny> i.e. receives 10 packets, then shuffles them, then processes
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11:07 < pbunny> nm, i added 0.5 to z,x,y of spawned entities and it solved
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13:40 < Grum> pbunny: they get stuck in the block otherwise and get shoved out
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14:00 < SupaYoshi> Hello
14:01 < SupaYoshi> Anyone here who can help me out with mark2?
14:01 < SupaYoshi> #semicolon separated paths to include or exclude, depending on mode
14:01 < SupaYoshi> plugin.backup.spec=worlds*
14:01 < SupaYoshi> http://pastebin.com/7nykP2k2 would this work?
14:01 < SupaYoshi> My world are claled UnitedFactions
14:02 < SupaYoshi> UnitedFactions_nether
14:02 < SupaYoshi> UnitedFactions_the_end and ShopWorld
14:20 < pbunny> http://wiki.vg/Protocol#Update_Window_Property_.280x69.29
14:20 < pbunny> "0-300 for fuel indicator "
14:20 < pbunny> i noticed that 'fuel' indicator actually shows values 0-150
14:20 < pbunny> above ones are like hidden (shown as full indicator)
14:21 < pbunny> is this 0-300 correct (show it as full until half of fuel is depleted)?
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14:34 < pbunny> 0-200 is correct in 1.5 , i updated wiki
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15:38 < dridri> hi o/
15:39 <+sadimusi> o/
15:39 < TkTech> \o
15:40 < dridri> I still have trouble to send player's position to server
15:40 < dridri> when I compare the proxyed data with the real client everything seems ok..
15:42 < dridri> I do as described here http://wiki.vg/How_to_Write_a_Client but doesn't work..
15:50 < dav1d> clonejo|offline: you played around with luad?
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16:32 < dridri> finally got it!
16:33 < dridri> the client just need to respond with the exact same data after receiving the first 0x0D command
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17:26 < pbunny> do ender chests work the same as regular chests?
17:26 < pbunny> same number of slots etc?
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20:12 < BizarreCake> What's the starting value for hunger saturation?
20:13 < BizarreCake> Does anyone know?
20:14 < BizarreCake> Oh nevermind, it's 20 too.
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21:59 < SupaYoshi> hey
21:59 < SupaYoshi> STorm2x around?
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22:26 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 5 commits to master [+5/-0/±20] http://git.io/nltUhA
22:26 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn aabfdde - Added read-only world classes for clients
22:26 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn a7e85ca - Added ability to save read only worlds, unload chunks
22:26 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 53f7fdd - Parse chunk packets in client
22:26 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 94c0d9d - Fix bug with 0x38 packets without light
22:26 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn df2f710 - Added ChunkRecieved event
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22:54 < erai> What is the largest packet the client can send?
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02:07 < Darker> Does anyone know how long should I wait before sending 0x0E (finish eating) to make the server accept eating?
02:08 < Darker> I cannot make the client to eat food.
02:08 < Darker> And  have the very same problem with arrows.
02:08 < Darker> *I have
02:16 < Darker> Does anyone know what packets are sent to the server when client is eating?
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03:38 < mappum> superjoe: can you update minecraft-protocol on npm to include that last pull request?
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10:15 < nickelpro> Hey, what packet is sent by the client to alert the server about a right click on a chest or crafting table?
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10:37 < pbunny> BlockCSS.png  0x8  Smooth Stone Slab (Double Only)
10:37 < pbunny> BlockCSS.png  0x9  Smooth Sandstone Slab (Double Only)
10:37 < pbunny> when should these variants be used?
10:38 < pbunny> instead of their regular (0x0 Stone Slab and 0x1 Sandstone Slab) variants
10:38 < SinZ> uhh
10:38 < SinZ> they just show odd textures
10:38 < SinZ> they arn't craftable
10:39 < SinZ> it shows the top face on all sides
10:39 < pbunny> ok
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11:32 < l4mRh4X0r> I suspect the type is detected with a 0x7 mask, and the texture without the mask :P
11:32 < l4mRh4X0r> Something like that
11:32  * l4mRh4X0r shrugs
11:33 < SinZ> its damage
11:33 < SinZ> like 43:3 is cobble(?)
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11:50 < pbunny> 2 blocks of quartz make 1 vertical pillar quartz block
11:50 < pbunny> how do i make horizontal pillar quartz blocks?
11:51 < SinZ> two slabs iirc
11:51 < l4mRh4X0r> I know it's damage, but I meant for the rendering.
11:51 < SinZ> l4mRh4X0r: he is doing server
11:51 < l4mRh4X0r> I know.
11:52 < l4mRh4X0r> I was just trying to think of a logical explanation for that oddity.
11:52 < l4mRh4X0r> pbunny, you may wanna look here: http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Crafting
11:52 < pbunny> l4mRh4X0r: i am looking right here atm
11:53 < l4mRh4X0r> ah :P
11:53 < pbunny> i see only vertical pillar quartz block, however there are metadatas for north-south and west-east pillar quartz blocks too
11:53 < pbunny> SinZ: two slabs make chiseled quartz block
11:54 < l4mRh4X0r> Isn't a quartz pillar like logs?
11:55 < pbunny> maybe
11:55 < l4mRh4X0r> i.e. use the metadata value to determine direction :P
11:56 < l4mRh4X0r> Yup. http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Data_values#Block_of_Quartz
11:56 < pbunny> i know. the question was about how do i craft one
11:56 < l4mRh4X0r> Not.
11:56 < l4mRh4X0r> It's determined by the placement.
11:56 < pbunny> or maybe there are some circumstances when vertical pillars become horizontal
11:56 < pbunny> oh
11:58 < l4mRh4X0r> Just like logs and pistons
12:00 < pbunny> iirc logs do not have texture direction stored in metadata though
12:00 < pbunny> its a client thing
12:00 < pbunny> that's why pillar quartz block made me confused
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12:16 < pbunny> "Contents of the chest are put into all Ender Chests created, but the contents are localised to the player in SMP."
12:16 < pbunny> is it true?
12:16 < pbunny> all ender chests actually use inventory stored somewhere in player?
12:18 < jast> well yeah
12:18 < jast> how else could that work
12:24 < SinZ> vannila saves enderchest in their player.dat file
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12:46 < Darker> By any chance, does any one known what packet sequence and timing is required to shoot an arrow? I only achieved to charge the bow (0x0F), but shooting failed
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13:45 < Darker> Could anyone give me a hint on arrow shooting sequence?
13:52 < Darker> Can I set bukkit to send debug info with received packets?
13:53 < Darker> So I will know what official client is sending to the server?
14:06 <+sadimusi> Darker: you could try SMProxy and only let it display the relevant packets
14:07 < Darker> I will try this
14:07 < Darker> Displaying relevant packets is exactly what i need
14:09 < Darker> Where do I get it?
14:09 <+sadimusi> https://github.com/SirCmpwn/SMProxy
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14:16 < Darker> Thank you. I hope I'll be able to compile it. Usually I fail with compiling others projects
14:20 < Darker> For which version of microsoft visual C++ is the SMProxy? My IDE refuses to open it :(
14:24 < SinZ> its C#
14:24 < SinZ> and it needs visual studio 2012 iirc
14:29 < Darker> That explains a lot, I have Microsoft Visual C++ 2010. What does "iirc" mean?
14:30 < Flemmard> if i remember correctly
14:30 < Flemmard> something like that :)
14:31 < Darker> Well, showed up that microsoft visial 2012 is not freeware. Any chance of importing into code::blocks, or I'll have to steal it?
14:32 < Flemmard> there's some express versions of VS
14:34 < Darker> See it, thank you. Just didn't know that "Express" means "Free" in microsoft :D
14:35 < Flemmard> it's "light"
14:37 < Darker> By the way, does anyone have Windows version compiled? This installing and compilling is so annoying for me, that I'd rather trust a binary file from a stranger
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14:41 < Flemmard> i can try
14:41 < Flemmard> master branch ?
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14:49 < Flemmard> Darker ?
14:49 < Flemmard> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/27861013/Release.zip
14:49 < Flemmard> freshly compiled
14:52 < Darker> Downloaded, thank you :)
14:52 < Darker> (hoping its not remote admin daemon :P)
14:52 < Flemmard> lol no it's built, packed, uploaded
14:52 < Darker> Just joking :)
14:52 < Flemmard> then if there's a remote daemon in SMproxy ...
14:52 < Flemmard> not my fault :P
14:52 < Flemmard> lol
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14:53 < Flemmard> i know
14:53 < Darker> Right now, my pc is so lagged, that even I can't control it...
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14:53 < Darker> There wouldn't be much fun with radmin :D
14:56 < Flemmard> haha
14:56 < Flemmard> there's always the file access, no need for screen control :P
14:58 < Flemmard> so it works ?
14:59 < Darker> Its awesome :D
15:00 < Darker> If i knew about this before, I coul've played minecraft from school
15:00 < Darker> (well, and if i could compile it for linux)
15:00 < Flemmard> you could use mono for it
15:00 < Darker> But now, there is some badass XML. Time to read some configuration docs
15:01 < Darker> Omg those logs are so cool! :D
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15:14 < Darker> What's wrong with this: SMProxy.exe --omit-server --unfilter 0x13,0x66,0x6C,0xCC,0xCD,0xFE,0x00,0x0D,0x0C,0x0B ?
15:15 < Darker> What else should I do with packets to make SMProxy accept the ignore list?
15:23 < Darker> Turned out that 0x is not required
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15:42 < pbunny> "The placement of the wool block and dye doesn't matter as long as they are both in the crafting grid."
15:42 < pbunny> any other recipes with same behavior (non-important ingredient placement)?
15:44 < SinZ> there are quite a few shapeless recipes
15:44 < pbunny> oh.
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17:00 < Darker> Does anyone know how to convert X,Z vector to player Yaw rotation?
17:00 < Darker> I'm so bad with goniomethry... :(
17:01 < Darker> Can't even make reverse of what is advised here: http://wiki.vg/Protocol#Player_Look_.280x0C.29
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18:17 < ml__> Hello
18:17 < ml__> Is there a way for the server to make the client not use encryption?
18:18 < ml__> I'm currently doing a minecraft server in c++, and I can't get encryption to work
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18:21 < Flemmard> that's not the best idea
18:21 < Flemmard> you better focus on making encryption work
18:21 < Flemmard> then you'll be "good"
18:23 < ml__> Okay...
18:23 < Flemmard> as now it's the base of the protocol .. :)
18:25 < ml__> So, for getting the QByteArray to send to the minecraft client, I use the following code: http://pastebin.com/LthGNFkr
18:25 < ml__> It doesn't work...  The client can't parse the data I send to it...
18:26 < ml__> Inside the Packet I use the following code to send to the client: http://pastebin.com/kAE6mai2
18:28 < roblabla> Qt ?
18:28 < roblabla> I like thqt :D
18:29 < roblabla> *thqt
18:29 < roblabla> derp.
18:29 < ml__> I get the following from the client: http://pastebin.com/Jsqe0Uwt
18:29 < ml__> Do I have to send the QByteArray encoded as a string?
18:29 < roblabla> No
18:29 < roblabla> For the protocol encryption packets, they're sent as byte arrays
18:30 < ml__> basically, just send one byte after another
18:30 < roblabla> Let me check, but I think so yeah
18:31 < ml__> my byte array ends with "01 00 01", like the vanilla minecraft server's packe
18:31 < ml__> *packet
18:33 < roblabla> yeah, so the bytes should just be next to each other
18:33 < ml__> yes, they are...
18:33 < roblabla> hmm
18:34 < ml__> Wait, I'll show you my wireshark packet
18:34 < roblabla> Yeah
18:34 < roblabla> was going to ask that lol
18:34 < roblabla> Also, what's the error ?
18:34 < roblabla> Oh
18:34 < ml__> http://pastebin.com/Jsqe0Uwt
18:35 < ml__> http://pastebin.com/SAbeXutp -> my packet
18:36 < roblabla> So your rsa key is invalid
18:37 < roblabla> Either you send the key wrong, or what you send isn't what minecraft expects
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18:38 < SupaYoshi> hello
18:38 < SupaYoshi> storm2x around?
18:40 < roblabla> is wiki.vg down ?
18:41 < ml__> Yes it is
18:41 < ml__> So, I'll try to use crypto++ instead of openssl now...
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18:47 < roblabla> ml__: take a look at this : http://pastebin.com/CtTCt2HT
18:47 < roblabla> this is how my nodejs server sends the 0xFD packet
18:48 < roblabla> I turn my server key into a PEM string array (one array entry per line in the PEM). 
18:49 < roblabla> Then I just have an str containing all the USEFUL lines of the PEM (the lines containing the key), create a Buffer (essentially a byte array) that loads this string as base64, and then send that buffer to the client
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19:05 < pbunny> Darker: http://dpaste.org/PhYN2/raw/ - thats how i convert yaw to z and x vector
19:05 < pbunny> you should do something reverse
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19:12 < Darker> That is the problem. I don't know how to reverse the operation...
19:12 < Darker> For now, i do this: atan2(vector[Z],vector[X])*(180.0/M_PI)+90
19:13 < Darker> I don't know why do I have to swap coordinates
19:13 < Darker> neigther I know why to add 90 degrees to the resilt
19:13 < Darker> I achieved this by trying and trying
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19:46 < Darker> Am I the only one who can't reach  http://wiki.vg?
19:48 <+ammar2> nope, it seems to be down
19:48 <+ammar2> kev009: poke
19:59 < edk> why do we never discuss alternative wiki options until it goes down?
20:00 < Darker> Is it backpued soewhere btw?
20:00 < edk> google cache
20:00 < Darker> yeah, besides that
20:00 < edk> don't think so
20:00 < Darker> google cached version is unreadable - all tables broken
20:01 < Darker> I'm now glad I at least downloaded the protocol docs
20:01 < edk> google caches the source too
20:02 < Darker> Did I access it wrongly? http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:wiki.vg/Object_Data
20:02 < Darker> I see no CSS, just pure HTML
20:02 < edk> no, that's right
20:02 < edk> but you can still get the page source from the cache
20:02 < edk> which you could use to populate a new wiki if needed
20:03 < Darker> By the way, is there some discusion page to discuss wiki changes?
20:03 < edk> here, mostly
20:03 < Darker> I'm not that self confident to change anything, but I had a few ideas
20:07 < pbunny> i am still struggling to show players' head yaws right to players that comein
20:08 < Darker> I just achieved to do this
20:08 < pbunny> i send spawn named entity packet for player, then headlook packet for it
20:08 < pbunny> it doesn't work
20:08 < pbunny> however headlook packets work later
20:08 < Darker> Ah, from the server side... Than I can't help
20:08 < pbunny> i.e. when player turns a bit, his head fixes to surrounding players
20:08 < pbunny> until that he has like broken neck
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20:12 < Darker> And are you doing the float>byte conversion properly?
20:16 < pbunny> Darker: i send the headyaw packet on players' dump the same way as it is sent later (when players turn)
20:16 < pbunny> yaw is the same too
20:16 < pbunny> for some reason packet doesn't work if sent right after "spawn named entity" packet
20:18 < Darker> But players are sending it as float, you must convert it to byte
20:18 < Darker> This is where it could easily go wrong
20:19 < pbunny> when players sent them and i resent them to other players, it works
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20:19 < pbunny> it doesn't work if i.e. one player was standing still (no turning) when other connected
20:20 < pbunny> other player then sees first one with broken neck
20:20 < pbunny> when first one turns, it fixes for second one
20:21 < Darker> Well, if you only update rotation when a player rotates, its kinda only thing that can happen
20:21 < Darker> You should have the rotation saved and send it even to newly connected players
20:21 < pbunny> i do that.
20:22 < pbunny> i send it right after i sent "spawn named entity" packet which spawns the player
20:22 < Darker> You can include rotation in 0x14, you know that?
20:22 < pbunny> i use the same routing, same packet, same yaw
20:22 < pbunny> Darker: but not head rotation
20:22 < pbunny> body is rotated, but head is looking to same direction
20:23 < pbunny> the same routine *
20:24 < Darker> Hey guys this is veird
20:24 < Darker> I just tryed to sniff for arrow spawn
20:24 < Darker> and it seems to have ID 60 (decimal)
20:24 < Darker> when http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Data_values states its ID 10 decimal
20:36 < Darker> Hello, I've a bit theoretical question...
20:37 < Darker> My bot is supposed to dodge flying arrows
20:40 < pbunny> you can't move fast enough iirc
20:41 < Darker> According to my test, you can jump one block in a flash
20:41 < pbunny> you should focus on neural networks, bot with true AI will learn to predict his opponents
20:41 < Darker> :D
20:41 < pbunny> even you
20:41 < Darker> First, I will make it at least strictly mathematic
20:42 < pbunny> i am going to use neural networks for AI of major mob leaders
20:49 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/rNHqbg
20:49 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 6932fd6 - Update README.md
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--- Day changed sam. mars 23 2013
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00:32 < erai> will resending a chunk force it to be updated in the client
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00:55 < umby25> erai: I would say it probably would.
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02:16 < TkTech> edk: Because laziness, I assume. No one wants to convert all the content
02:18 < roblabla> TkTech: Wouldn't it be possible to just make a caching mirror ?
02:18 < roblabla> Actually, that's not a question
02:18 < roblabla> because it is possible
02:18 < roblabla> Just nobody thought about it :P
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02:20 < TkTech> What do you mean? When it goes down for a few minutes we just use the google cache
02:21 < TkTech> (Less then perfect, but free [in both $$ and time])
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05:35 < SinZ> did anything change in 1.5.1?
05:35 < SinZ> b.wiki.vg doesn't want to talk about it
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13:37 < pbunny> hi
13:38 < pbunny> any useful links about world generation?
13:38 < pbunny> or maybe some code
13:40 <+Fador> http://notch.tumblr.com/post/3746989361/terrain-generation-part-1 ;)
13:40 < pbunny> thx
13:44 < dav1d> perlin worm!
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21:02 < pbunny> weird
21:02 < pbunny> i sent lighting data with shadows
21:02 < pbunny> player sees shadows from a distance, but when closes in - they disappear
21:02 < pbunny> like if client does his own lighting processing
21:03 < pbunny> anyway, i would like exact formula for lighting calculation
21:03 < eddyb> the client does do its own lighting calculations
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21:04 < pbunny> so server's calculation must be the same?
21:08 < dav1d>  the client does
21:08 < pbunny> but server needs to send lighting data
21:08 < pbunny> doesn't it?
21:09 < dav1d> everything else would kill bamdwith
21:09 < dav1d> yes a single time
21:09 < dav1d> with the mapchunkbulk
21:12 < pbunny> and how must server generate lighting data
21:12 < pbunny> ?
21:12 < pbunny> any formulas?
21:13 < dav1d> no sircmpwn wrote a gist with several attempts, ideas but nothing is trivial
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21:47 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: So, in 2237 the running cost of a bus is $64,422/year.
21:47 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: They're totally unusable after 2100 or so
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21:59 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: hehe
21:59 < Darker> hello
21:59 < Darker> please, do you have an idea, if C++ std:: provides some ZLib decompressing library?
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22:16 < eddyb> Darker: no
22:16 < eddyb> std:: is bare bones
22:17 < eddyb> boost might have zlib somewhere
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22:28 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 2 commits to master [+7/-0/±16] http://git.io/E_hbRw
22:28 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn a5b926f - Fixed various bugs with Linux/Mac support
22:28 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 9d2eb61 - Merge branch 'master' of github.com:SirCmpwn/Craft.Net into HEAD
22:32 < Not-001> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-1/±6] http://git.io/Q2dGlw
22:32 < Not-001> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn ffc904d - Fixed issues for Linux/Mac support
22:32 < Not-001> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn a6c57ca - Added note to README about HTTPS certs in Mono
22:36 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/BAVs8A
22:36 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 28edb02 - Updated README to mention issues with certs on mono
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23:04 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±12] http://git.io/f35F0Q
23:05 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn cf1896f - Fixed bugs with compiling on mono
23:05 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 206dfd7 - Fixed hardness and drop for diamond ore
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02:10 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 34654cd - Changed visibility of AcceptConnectionAsync
02:39 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±3] http://git.io/ZohBwg
02:39 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 7dcdfc8 - Added to Craft.Net.Data.Level to allow for singleplayer levels to be saved
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13:45 < ml__> Hello
13:45 < ml__> I have a question regarding the minecraft protocol
13:47 < ml__> After the server sends the login packet (0x01), the client sends back two packets: 204 and 13
13:47 < ml__> Is it normal that I get packet 13 so early on?
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13:52 < roblabla> ml__: packet 13 ?
13:53 < ml__> packet 0x0c (Player Position and look)
13:53 < roblabla> Oh
13:54 < ml__> wait..
13:54 < ml__> wrong
13:54 < ml__> 0x0d
13:54 < roblabla> Well yeah
13:54 < roblabla> after the client recieves login packet, it will recieve map chunks
13:54 < roblabla> and once it has them, it will send the ready to spawn packet
13:54 < ml__> Okay... But I never sent it map chunks
13:55 < roblabla> Are you sure it's the notchian client ?
13:55 < ml__> Yeah I use the vanilla minecraft 1.5.1 client
13:55 < roblabla> http://wiki.vg/Protocol_FAQ
13:55 < ml__> Yeah I already know that page
13:55 < roblabla> that's how it's supposed to work
13:56 < ml__> I'm getting the payload
13:56 < ml__> then I'm sending the login response
13:56 < ml__> And I should just go on and send the chunks? Ignore packet 13?
13:56 < ml__> (or 0x0d)
13:57 < roblabla> Oh
13:57 < roblabla> Do you send them a player look position ?
13:57 < roblabla> Player Position + Look packet
13:57 < ml__> Nope
13:57 < ml__> The last thing I send is the packet 0x01 (Login)
13:58 < roblabla> :|
13:58 < ml__> But I read: "The standard Minecraft server sends full chunks only when your client is sending player status update packets (any of Player (0x0A) through Player Position & Look (0x0D))."
13:58 < ml__> So maybe that's why the client sends me that packet ;D
13:58 < roblabla> Normally, the server sends 0x01, all the necessary things like entities/map chunk, and then a 0x0d to the client
13:59 < roblabla> then client replies with the same 0x0d
13:59 < ml__> funny...
13:59 < roblabla> I'm not a pro at the minecraft protocol, you should use wireshark to see how notchian client/server handles it
14:00 < ml__> Yeah
14:00 < roblabla> maybe it changed and the page is outdated ?
14:00 < ml__> But that stuff I want to see is encrypted...
14:00 < ml__> With rsa.
14:01 < roblabla> Put the server in offline mode
14:01 < ml__> Offline mode disables encryption?
14:01 < roblabla> eeh, nvm that
14:01 <+Fador> when in offline mode, you can skip encryption
14:02 < ml__> Does the notchian server disable encryption when in offline mode?
14:03 <+Fador> just send login responde (0x01) instead of encryption request (0xfd) ;)
14:03 <+Fador> *response
14:03 < roblabla> Yeah but the notchian client won't do it
14:03 < roblabla> I believe
14:03 <+Fador> it will
14:03 <+Fador> at least it worked with 1.4.6 ;)
14:05 <+Fador> https://github.com/fador/mineserver/blob/master/src/packets.cpp#L609 I still have the option in my server
14:05 < roblabla> Wasn't there a minecraft mod to export the rsa key to import it in wireshark or something ?
14:05 <+Fador> just haven't tried it recently =D
14:06 < roblabla> ml__: 
14:06 < roblabla> use https://github.com/SirCmpwn/SMProxy
14:07 < roblabla> http://sircmpwn.github.com/SMProxy/
14:07 < roblabla> (it has a download link)
14:10 < ml__> Thanks! Very helpful tool!
14:23 < ml__> Hm... I think I know where my problem is..
14:24 < ml__> I don't think I am allowed to send a Keep-Alive before sending the map...
14:24 < ml__> Also, SMProxy seems very bugged on linux
14:27 < ml__> SMProxy works for the vanilla server, but not for my server
14:27 < roblabla> ml__: I don't think keepalive would change anything
14:27 < roblabla> also use Mono for SMProxy
14:27 < roblabla> not wine
14:28 < ml__> I am using mono
14:28 < ml__> but the connection often resets for some reason
14:28 < roblabla> :/ dunno then
14:28 < ml__> And, you are right, the keepalive doesn't change anything
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14:29 < ml__> I think I should just ignore that packet until all data is sent
14:29 < ml__> and then read it
14:33 < ml__> Hm... got SMProxy working...
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15:11 < pbunny> Fador: what do you mean by "offline mode"?
15:12 < pbunny> if i understand correctly my server is in "offline mode", and notchian client still uses encryption
15:12 < roblabla> pbunny: that's cuz your server still sends encryption request
15:13 < roblabla> if your server is in offline mode, you can just go ahead and skip the encryption request/response packets, that's what I think he meant
15:13 <+Fador> pbunny: yeah, you have to skip the encryption request if you dont want to use it
15:14 < pbunny> oh
15:15 <+Fador> I don't think this behavior is documented in the wiki and it might be a "bug" of some sort in the client that you can skip encryption
15:16 <+Fador> I was playing around after implementing the protocol encryption and noticed you can do that.. ;)
15:17 < roblabla> Fador: it's not documented anywhere. And I suppose it's due to how minecraft handles the packets he receives. 
15:18 <+Fador> yeah
15:18 <+Fador> it switches the input/ouput streams after some packet or so
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15:21 < roblabla> I know doing this kind of trick breaks pyCraft and other third-party minecraft clients though
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16:06 <+ammar2> yeah, its a quirk with the vanilla client, ideally you should just support encryption
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17:59 < MonkeyPwns> Hi
18:05 < MonkeyPwns> Does anyone know a good tool to deobfuscate/decompile Minecraft's Server other than MCP?
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20:43 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/T55bOg
20:43 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn c50bb26 - Update README.md
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21:55 < Not-001> [bravo] brutal-chaos pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/FUh8pw
21:56 < Not-001> [bravo] Justin Noah f0e98d7 - protocol: bumped to 60
21:57 < pbunny> hi, i would really like a link about how vanilla server/client handles lighting
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22:56 < pbunny> where can i get many players for testing my server (i.e. mutex stuff, cpu/ram usage etc)
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23:09 <+clonejo> pbunny: bots?
23:11 <+clonejo> There might be some documentation on lighting on Minecraftwiki
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23:14 < pbunny> clonejo: where can i get some bots?
23:14 <+clonejo> http://wiki.vg/Client_List
23:15 <+clonejo> pbunny: http://wiki.vg/wiki/index.php?search=bot&title=Special%3ASearch ;-)
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23:29 < pbunny> ok, my server uses ~200MB of RAM and ~1% of CPU core when 5 minecraft clients connected
23:30 < pbunny> i can't handle more of mc clients, every of them is using 1GB :[
23:35 < pbunny> i would use bots but they will need to login with /login <nick> <password> (and perhaps register first) to be able to test the actual world
23:36 < edk> simulate them from within your server
23:40 < pbunny> code internal mc client? no thx
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07:13 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1935 3 files : Updated fNbt to release 0.5 
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07:14 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1936 9 files : Made necessary code changes for fNbt version update. 
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08:58 < TkTech> Random: I find it funny I can buy a 20lb frozen turkey for $20, or drive for ten minutes and buy two fat, living turkeys for $35
08:58 < TkTech> Although I imagine butchering them in an apartment would be one hell of a show.
09:08 <+Ac-town> yeah that wouldn't be that fun
09:11 <+md_5> Dinnerbone sorry to bug you, but since iirc you wrote item merging: https://github.com/EcoCityCraft/Spigot/blob/master/CraftBukkit-Patches/0003-Merge-tweaks-and-configuration.patch#L34
09:11 <+md_5> swapping which item merges into which is SO much prettier for the player
09:12 <+md_5> since they see the dropped items being absorbed
09:12 <+md_5> compared to disapearing and confusing them
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09:24 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: then take into account your hourly salery and the time it would take to butcher them.
09:28 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: Doesn't take that long if you skin instead of pluck.
09:28 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: 99% of the time is letting them drain
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14:36 < pbunny> can somebody advice bot for server benchmarking?
14:37 < pbunny> bot that joins and does stuff
14:37 < pbunny> or maybe some scripting framework but not nodejs
14:38 < dav1d> nodejs
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14:39 < pbunny> not nodejs
14:39 < pbunny> don't want to compile it
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15:14 <+clonejo> pbunny: ppa?
15:21 <+ammar2> pbunny: I have a simply python program that can spawn up to any number of bots that move around randomly
15:21 <+ammar2> assuming this is in the minecraft client context ofcourse
15:22 < edk> (presumably you need to disable auth)
15:27 <+ammar2> edk: unless you own as many accounts as you need bots, yes ^_^
15:27 < pbunny> oh, notchian auth is always disabled
15:27 < pbunny> i have my own auth
15:27 < pbunny> you must type /login nick password, then portal to real world appears and you must enter it
15:28 <+ammar2> pbunny: http://www.spigotmc.org/threads/stress-testing-servers.175/
15:28 <+ammar2> you can add in that command sending if you want, python is simple enough to modify
15:28 <+ammar2> yay interpretation
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15:38 < Valdi|Laptop> what means "0x6: Standing in ground" for torches (in the minecraft wiki)?
15:38 < Valdi|Laptop> IN the ground?!
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15:42 < pbunny> Valdiralita: probably means "bottom of the torch is in the ground"
15:43 < Valdiralita> ive never seen this ingame :o
15:43 < pbunny> anyway just try it and see
15:43 < jast> take torch, look at top of a block, place torch
15:43 < jast> bam, upright torch
15:43 < Valdiralita> lol okay thanks
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04:27 < Viligeman122> i have a really cool idea fir game
04:27 < Viligeman122> for
04:27 < Connor1301> finnaly some one says something
04:28 < Viligeman122> lol
04:28 < Viligeman122> conner
04:28 < Connor1301> its been a long time since any one has talked
04:28 < Viligeman122> do u have a server
04:29 < Connor1301> u mean a channel?
04:29 < Viligeman122> no minecraft server
04:29 < Connor1301> oh i used to
04:29 < Connor1301> but...
04:29 < Viligeman122> what happend
04:30 < Connor1301> well i dont really know
04:30 < Viligeman122> lol
04:30 < Connor1301> thats the problem
04:30 < Viligeman122> did it crash
04:30 < Connor1301> sort o
04:30 < Connor1301> of
04:31 < Viligeman122> is it hosted by u or a host
04:31 < Connor1301> by a host
04:31 < Connor1301> not by me
04:32 < Connor1301> i have to go:( bye
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04:32 < Viligeman122> aww
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04:41 < Viligeman122> hi
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11:44 <+Scootabyte> woops
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13:08 < pbunny> is it good idea to run every chunkcolumn is its own thread?
13:09 < pbunny> its physics, metaentity processing, maybe entities' AI
13:09 < pbunny> or maybe 10x10 chunks per thread
13:09 < pbunny> what problems can arise from that?
13:09 < edk> pbunny: the interaction at chunk boundaries would be problematic
13:10 < pbunny> edk: why?
13:10 < pbunny> just 1) lock mutexes of both chunks 2) transfer the needed entity/block/... 3) unlock mutexes
13:11 < edk> you'll likely end up with one of three scenarios:
13:11 < edk> 1) it's not thread safe and has race conditions and/or crashes randomly
13:11 < edk> 2) it wastes so much time waiting for mutexes to unlock that it's no better than doing everything on one thread
13:12 < pbunny> 2) - impossible
13:12 < pbunny> too many chuns columns, and each of them will interact only with nearby ones
13:12 < edk> 3) it's thread safe and lockless but the overhead is too much to make it worth it except for stupid numbers of CPUs
13:12 < pbunny> what overhead?
13:12 < pbunny> mutex lock/unlock takes about 17ns iirc
13:12 < edk> yes obviously locking a mutex is quick
13:12 < edk> waiting for a locked mutex isn't
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13:18 < pbunny> :/
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13:23 < pbunny> edk: but if i keep world in single thread, i will have to move entities' AI to separate thread
13:23 < pbunny> otherwise overhead on single core will be too big
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13:30 <+ammar2> don't you have like a 5k x 5k map loaded in memory at any given time, thats ~97500 chunks
13:31 <+ammar2> 97500 threads are not cheap
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13:31 < pbunny> i am thinking about regions consisting of 10x10 chunks
13:32 < pbunny> i will have 1500x1500 map for now
13:33 <+ammar2> ~88 threads, may work but good luck dealing with the thread safety
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23:26 < ellisvlad> hi
23:27 < ellisvlad> just a quick question from me
23:27 < umby24> ok
23:27 < ellisvlad> What is the packet id for dropping items in Minecraft 1.5 PC edition?
23:27 < ellisvlad> :P
23:27 < ellisvlad> I've looked all over, and can't find it :/
23:27 < umby24> just ask and anyone who is active that knows the answer will likely reply
23:28 < ellisvlad> cool, thanks
23:30 < umby24> 0xAA    DropItemPacket
23:30 < umby24> lacks documentation however
23:31 < ellisvlad> hmm, OK, thankyou ;)
23:37 < umby24> no problem
--- Day changed jeu. mars 28 2013
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12:35 < pbunny> umby24|offline: what is 0xAA DropItemPacket ?
12:35 < pbunny> my server uses 0x17 to spawn item entity and then Entity Velocity packet(s) to make it look dropped
12:36 <+Fador> ..minecraft pocket edition packets I believe
12:37 < SinZ> ^
12:39 < pbunny> **:21:54    ellisvlad | What is the packet id for dropping items in Minecraft 1.5 PC edition?
12:39 < pbunny> so by "PC edition" he meant pocket edition?
12:40 < SinZ> umbys client isn't up to item dropping fyi
12:40 < SinZ> didn't 1.5 stuff up entity dropping though
12:42 < l4mRh4X0r> Well, at least there's no such thing as packet 0xAA in the vanilla minecraft 1.5.1 server
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16:07 < dav1d> clonejo: o/
16:07 <+clonejo> dav1d: \o/
16:07 < dav1d> :D
16:10 <+clonejo> I'm implementing a new chunk storage mechanism for mc-erl right now
16:10 <+clonejo> it's based on Postgresql
16:10 < dav1d> cool
16:10 < dav1d> postgres rules!
16:11 <+clonejo> i figured a database is one of the best ways to store chunks
16:11 < dav1d> yeah only brings overhead
16:11 < dav1d> speed for size
16:11 < dav1d> same with hashmaps
16:11 < dav1d> :P
16:14 < dav1d> clonejo: I am about to play around with lua/luad and test the octaforge ui
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16:56 < TkTech> Alrighty, who wants a copy of Just Cause 2 on steam?
16:56 -!- Kyle_ is now known as Kyle
16:58 <+Fador> Great game btw =)
16:59 < Kyle> hmmm
16:59 < dav1d> TkTech: never heared of it, what genre?
16:59  * Kyle considers it
17:00 < TkTech> dav1d: You're dead to me.
17:00 < dav1d> :D
17:00 < Kyle> I'll let somebody else take a nab at it, I've played it before.
17:01 < dav1d> so
17:01 < dav1d> I have to kill ppl
17:03 < dav1d> sounds a bit like far cry
17:03 < Kyle> older than far cry 3, though
17:03 < Kyle> so more like "far cry 3 sounds a bit like this"
17:03 < dav1d> no
17:03 < dav1d> because I knew far cry before just cause 2
17:04 < dav1d> so just cause 2 sounds like far cry to me :P
17:04 < Kyle> doesn't make it older :p
17:04 < dav1d> anyways gtg
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18:39 < roblabla> TkTech: I
18:39 < roblabla> *I'd love a copy :D
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20:28 <+clonejo> dav1d: nice
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22:37 < jibcage> Hi, I'm having a bit of an issue getting a client I coded to work. I've looked at the protocol, and I'm sending a 0x0A-0x0D every 50ms. However when I add 1 to the x value, the player doesn't move.
22:37 < jibcage> For some reason I'm allowed to adjust yaw / pitch, and his head will move, but I can't get him to move himself.
22:59 < jibcage> Can anybody help? I also tried increasing x, y, and z by ridiculous amounts to see if my server would kick me, but it isn't doing that.
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22:59 < jibcage> Which makes no sense if I can adjust yaw and pitch, right?
23:00 <+md_5> it should just send you pack
23:00 <+md_5> 1 is way too big for the vanilla server
23:00 <+md_5> s/pack/back
23:00 <+md_5> try like 0.2
23:01 < jibcage> Oh? What's the largest I can feasibly increase it in a certain time period?
23:01 < jibcage> And I've checked, it only sends me a 0x0D twice : once upon connect, and once about 10 seconds later
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23:10 < umby24|offline> oi that guy yesterday said pc edition? thought he said pocket.
23:10 < umby24|offline> oops.
23:10 < umby24|offline> annnd im still marked as offline.
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--- Day changed ven. mars 29 2013
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00:43 < TkTech> Google alerts sometimes pops up with some…weird...things.
00:44 < TkTech> https://subversion.assembla.com/svn/goobcraft/trunk/core/protocol.py <-- Look at the "if" with my name in it.
00:44 < TkTech> Apparently on random servers my name gets coloured. Also, someone did not know python when they wrote that.
01:01 < AndrewPH|Alt> jegus that's a big if block
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01:06 < TkTech> AndrewPH: … https://gist.github.com/TkTech/e2bab758fa39c26c92c7
01:06 < TkTech> AndrewPH: It's just filled with horrors 
01:07 <+AndrewPH> now I remember why I never bothered looking at those bits
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01:27 < yorick> mappum: http://www.redstone.io/ works, but http://redstone.io times out
01:27 < mappum> yeah
01:28 < mappum> the first is a webserver, the second are the game servers
01:28 < mappum> is*
01:28 < TkTech> …why...
01:30 < umby24> ^
01:33 < mappum> because the servers are running on a bunch of ec2 machines
01:38 < TkTech> I'm missing something here.
01:38 < TkTech> This is silly, and will confuse a lot of people. Absolutely no one does it this way.
01:39 < TkTech> If you need a different A/CNAME record why would you not use server.redstone or s.redstrone or absolutely anything else
01:44 < TkTech> mappum: Bleh, keep alive timeout
01:44 < mappum> yeah, that's on the issue list :P
01:46 < TkTech> mappum: TBH, I would have waited and polished it before posting if you were seeking YC attention.
01:46 < TkTech> Better late than broken.
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01:46 < mappum> well tomorrow is the last day
01:47 < TkTech> Tomorrow is the last day of this series, you could have just waited for the next one.
01:47 < TkTech> Which is my point.
01:47 < mappum> and it's the idea we wanted people to like, not the implementation
01:47 < mappum> no, the applications must be submitted by tomorrow at midnight
01:48 < TkTech> ...
01:48 < mappum> we could email it to them late or something, but i don't think the amount of bugs is how they decide on who to fund
01:48 < mappum> our goal was for people to like the idea
01:48 < mappum> t
01:48 < TkTech> Tomorrow is the last day of this series (2013) of funding. You could have just waited for the next one.
01:48 < mappum> oh, i see
01:48 < mappum> that's 6 months from now
01:49 < mappum> we are starting to work on this full time, if we waited we would have to get real jobs again for a while :P
01:50 < TkTech> Ah, there we go. That's what I didn't get.
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01:54 < TkTech> mappum: Good luck, always fun to see a Minecraft-based success. Lots of people make their living on it.
01:56 < TkTech> sadimusi: Are you still maintaining b.wiki.vg?
01:56 < mappum> TkTech: thanks :D
01:58 <+sadimusi> TkTech: Not really, 1.5 completely broke burger
01:58 < TkTech> sadimusi: You have no idea how surprised I am that it survived this long (mostly due to your work on it)
01:59 <+sadimusi> The issues just seem to pile up faster than I have the motivation to fix them
02:00 < TkTech> sadimusi: I reached that point about 2 months after I started it.
02:00 <+sadimusi> mappum: Why don't you just use a SRV record for the game server?
02:00 < TkTech> ^- Or that, which is another good idea
02:02 <+sadimusi> Is that even documented anywhere?
02:02 < TkTech> mappum: Server just kick it?
02:03 < mappum> not that i am aware of
02:03 < TkTech> mappum: Dammit, fell off the map when I timed out and now I'm stuck in a black hole.
02:06 < mappum> yeah, some dude keeps opening the hole :/
02:11 < yorick> mappum: ip-ban him :P
02:12 < mappum> heh i haven't added any commands yet :/
02:12 < mappum> other than /notch and /snake
02:21 < yorick> mappum: it's broken!
02:22 < mappum> yeah :/
02:22 < mappum> because of bugs, not load D:
02:28 < yorick> mappum: it seems as if there is a flood in your chat
02:28 < mappum> :/
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18:03 < slowman> can anyone tell me when a mapchunk packet describes the x/z coordinates of a chunk.. which corner of the chunk it describes? is it the south eastern corner?
18:04 < slowman> *south western, even
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19:43 < umby24> slowman
19:43 < umby24> should be able to explore that yourself, through a vanilla minecraft client
19:43 < umby24> when you press f3 it shows your coords in the map, as well as chunk coords.
19:44 < umby24> but i don't think its the coords of a block in the chunk
19:44 < slowman> right okay, i'll have a look, thanks.
19:45 < umby24> rather, the game thinks of each chunk as one giant block for its own coords, but maybe someone else could clarify
19:45 < umby24> I havn't quite got to chunk loading in my bot yet :P tried but failed many times already.
19:46 < slowman> haha, yep. i'm failing at the moment. but yeah i think you're right, you have to times the chunk grid by 16 to get the actual coords
19:47 < umby24> something.. I've tried a few different formulas for getting the coords of each block.. but i keep stepping outside, or far below the ammount of data sent to me.. so I still get to figure that out
19:50 < slowman> yeah i'm having a similar problem, i think. trying to get block ids from any given coords, having trouble stepping through the data array of the packet.
19:50 < umby24> exactly
19:51 < umby24> so I decided to move on to inventory management first before i try again..
19:51 < umby24> but that's almost done now
19:52 < slowman> nice! yeah for some reason i can input any Y coordinate on the 0,0 xz of a chunk and it'll get me the correct block. as soon as i start adding x and z coordinates something strange is happening. i'm guessing it's someething to do with these biome bytes, but i'm not sure i understand where they actually occur
19:53 < umby24> hm.. i never tried that, I couldn't get any blocks that were even remotely close to what I had. but yeah, all the extra bytes are kinda throwing me off as well.
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23:53 < Not-001> [PyNBT] TkTech pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/_xljuw
23:53 < Not-001> [PyNBT] seventh 19bf5e6 - TAG_String length is a TAG_Short, so a signed integer
23:53 < Not-001> [PyNBT] TkTech b8c6494 - Merge pull request #8 from seventh/master Small bugfix
23:59 < TkTech> 153 lines of javascript and there are still edge cases.
--- Day changed sam. mars 30 2013
00:00 < TkTech> Trying to find the absolute position of an element right-clicked in the DOM is agonizing. [i]frames, relative elements inside fixed elements, parent offsets that don't account for borders...
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00:29 < yorick> TkTech: solution: don't use frames
00:35 < TkTech> yorick: This is a chrome extension, I have no say in the matter.
00:36 < yorick> doesn't chrome have some kind of .reallyGetAbsolutePositionNow() method?
00:36 < TkTech> Yeah, I wish.
00:37 < TkTech> (This is a portable extension, except for a bit of UI glue it works on Chrome/Safari/Firefox
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06:36 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1937 24 files : Marked branch 0.64x as abandoned 
06:37 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1938 2 files : Marked branch 0.70x as abandoned 
07:02 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1939 11 files : Updated assembly versions to 0.640 
07:04 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1940 3 files : Fixed MapGenerator sometimes locking up when working with tiny 16x16 maps (thanks 123DMWM). Improved error reporting in MapGenerator, to make bugs like this easier to catch in the future. 
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21:24 < umby24> Is it possible for the lighting data sent along with a map bulk chunk to only be 1024 bytes?
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21:46 < dav1d>  that's correct 
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23:58 < umby24> that's correct? i thought it was half byte per block?
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00:23 <+Amaranthus> I would think it'd always be a multiple of 2048 but I haven't looked too closely
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01:46 < umby24> any way i would be able to tell which bytes are lighting? Need to know so I can properly get the data for each column
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23:33 < cathode> has anyone made a custom mc server (or mod, i guess) that adds physics support for mechanisms with levers and axles and stuff like that?
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07:38 < OGK> Hi Q I didn't see answered in the wiki
07:38 < OGK> minecraft is a TCP protocol?
07:40 < OGK> The stream encryption inclines me towards "yes" but it seems strange for a game protocol.
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07:40 < AndrewPH|Alt> OGK: Minecraft uses TCP, yes.
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07:43 < OGK> thx. do you think I'd have fun writing a minecraft server in node.js? how much is handled by the client?
07:44 < SinZ> its been done
07:45 < OGK> Yeah, I'm not expecting to write anything as comprehensive as what's already out there...just wanna play with the protocol.
07:45 < OGK> and exercise my node skills. ;)
07:45 < SinZ> after you get passed the damn encryption, its fun
07:46 < OGK> what does a server attempting to be a stock server replacement have to implement?
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10:41 < edk> sorry
10:41 < edk> my client is a bit more retarded than i thought it was
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11:50 < OGK> yep, writing a node.js minecraft server is going to be difficult! :o
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16:53 < Stormx2> Hey folks. What are the "best" python NBT implementation around at the moment? I wrote my own a year ago but it's probably not as nice as some others' work.
17:07 < SinZ> TkTechs most likely
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17:23 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: ^
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17:52 < TkTech> Stormx2: There's twoolies (which is more popular) and mine (which has nothing unique about it).
17:52 < TkTech> I wrote mine to be minimal and as a reference for when I was writing the NBT wiki page.
17:53 < TkTech> https://github.com/twoolie/NBT & https://github.com/TkTech/PyNBT
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19:18 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 2 commits to 2.0-april-fools [+4/-0/±8] http://git.io/U6u3Dw
19:18 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn bf0bcc3 - Update protocol version
19:18 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 5bf0752 - Added 2.0 blocks and items
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01:50 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 3 commits to refactoring [+20/-0/±11] http://git.io/TpeCYg
01:50 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn de7e51b - Removed Craft.Net.Data from build
01:50 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 701b107 - Define Craft.Net.Utilities
01:50 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 4f86273 - Started refactoring Level
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02:19 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 2 commits to refactoring [+9/-25/±9] http://git.io/JCkidw
02:19 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 54acd4a - Reorganizing unit tests
02:19 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn f703e37 - Finished most of Level refactoring
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04:15 < x56> ##windowsphone
04:15 < x56> whoops...
04:38 < TkTech> Wait a minute, when was the last time the wiki.vg bot said anything in here...
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04:44 < TkTech> Huh, nope still working. Just no edits.
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05:05 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to refactoring [+0/-0/±4] http://git.io/__kBOQ
05:05 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 80bf386 - Further work on adding back Level functionality, now supports unlimited worlds
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09:28 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to refactoring [+0/-0/±4] http://git.io/cA3KJw
09:28 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 78e3a90 - Removing majority of code in other classes, will be rewritten
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10:47 < Sanky> Hey, so what's up with Minecraft Pocket edition?  Can you connect to arbitrary servers?
10:50 <+md_5|away> Um
10:50 <+md_5|away> Don't think so y err t
10:50 <+md_5|away> Yet
10:50 < Sanky> what's it for then ~_~
10:50 < Sanky> wake me up when yes :p
10:51 <+md_5|away> WiFi and Bluetooth servers
10:51 < Sanky> no internet servers?  lame
10:52 < Sanky> thanks for the info though
10:52 < SinZ> it would rape peoples puny bandwidth on mobiles
10:53 <+md_5|away> It's UDP and efficient afaik
10:53 < Sanky> that's not an excuse
10:53 < SinZ> and they are working on implementing minecraft realms to pocket iirc
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10:54 < Sanky> I just want to connect to my server from my phone
10:54 < Sanky> why is that so hard
10:55 < SinZ> simple minecraft pocket edition != minecraft PC edition
10:56 < Sanky> and apparently xbox is totally different too?? 
10:56 < Sanky> why aren't they working off a single codebase ?_?
10:56 < SinZ> because Mobile and xbox hate java
10:56 < SinZ> and pc edition was made in java
10:56 < Sanky> game logic should be shared
10:57 < SinZ> well, xbox was made by a different company
10:57 <+md_5|away> I agree
10:57 < Sanky> yes and it's getting the same updates regular minecraft is, just a couple months behind.  so dumb
10:57 < SinZ> and pocket wanted to change things up, as mobile was designed to have a different play feel
10:57 <+md_5|away> Like doodle jump for stupid
10:57 <+md_5|away> Droid
10:57 < Sanky> also fine, they're different
10:57 <+md_5|away> Has libdoodle.so
10:57 < Sanky> still could write a proxy between pocket client and regular server
10:58 < SinZ> proxy between udp and tcp, fun
10:58 < Sanky> that's the least of my concerns
10:58 <+md_5|away> When they can actually connect to external IPS I plan to add to my proxy
10:58 <+md_5|away> Bungeecord
10:59 < Sanky> what's it proxy
10:59 < SinZ> with a weird github name
10:59 < SinZ> Sanky: ...minecraft
10:59 < Sanky> oh servers huh
11:00 < SinZ> md_5|away: support minecraft 2.0 on bungeecord yet?
11:00 < Sanky> well, a pocket client <> regular server is definitely on my todo list
11:01 <+md_5|away> On holiday
11:01 <+md_5|away> Barely know what 2.0 is
11:01 <+ammar2> SinZ: "(SinZ) because Mobile and xbox hate java" meet android
11:01 <+ammar2> it loves java
11:01 < SinZ> mobile is on iOS too
11:01 <+ammar2> pftt, I know
11:02 < SinZ> and android hates java applets, which is what minecraft is actually on
11:02 <+ammar2> lolwat
11:02 <+ammar2> minecraft isn't a java applet
11:02 < SinZ> yes it is
11:02 <+ammar2> the full downloadable version that is
11:02 < SinZ> the launcher makes a frame to put the applet on
11:02 <+md_5|away> Its not an applet
11:03 < Sanky> pretty sure that's not how it works
11:03  * SinZ dives into logs
11:03 < Sanky> I mean sure a launcher makes a frame but applet doesn't mean anything special
11:09 < SinZ> the launchers code shows creating the applet from the class net.minecraft.client.MinecraftApplet
11:18 <+md_5|away> That doesn't mean it's an applet
11:19 <+ammar2> the applet itself is merely a wrapper to show the actual window
11:20 <+ammar2> could just as easily be in swing or whatever
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13:25 < Sanky> are there any minecraft clones for android with multiplayer...
13:31 < dav1d> minecraft pocket edition
13:32 < Sanky> real multiplayer, with static servers
13:33 < SinZ> last I checked, this was #mcdevs and not #android
13:34 < Sanky> last time I checked custom/open clients fell under what #tmdevs discussed
13:34 < Sanky> (then again, the last time I checked was over a year ago.)
13:35 < SinZ> I don't think there are anyone that talk of minecraft clones for mobile
13:35 < SinZ> there are clients/servers that support pocket edition protocol though
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13:40 < shoghicp> hi
13:40 < SinZ> ohai
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16:12 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1941 5 files : Fixed world greetings not being saved between restarts (port from 0.64x) Added a couple utility methods to Paths (NormalizeDirName and MakeRelativePath) to accommodate upcoming MapRenderer and MapConverter improvements. 
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16:27 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1942 8 files : Ported improvements to MapUtility.LoadHeader/TryLoadHeader from 0.64x 
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16:38 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1943 6 files : MapRenderer/MapConverter: Now only allow either one directory, or one-or-more files to be specified. Multiple directories, and mixed directories/files are no longer allowed. New --regex and --tryhard flags for MapRenderer and MapConverter. MapRenderer/MapConverter: Disabled fallback map conversion (which significantly slowed down trying to convert non-maps when recursing a whole directo
16:41 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1944 2 files : Expanded "Player ___ logged in from an IP shared by banned players..." to include frozen players as well. Removed some ancient compatibility code from UpdateInstaller. 
16:49 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1945 3 files : fCraft no longer tries to use "mono-sgen" binary, now just using "mono" and assuming that runtime is properly configured. (backport) UpdateInstaller is now more flexible with --restart parameter: It's no longer required to be a .NET binary, now it can be anything that a console could execute. (backport) 
16:52 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1946 2 files : Dropped Mono 2.6 support. Fixed /wload showing incorrect map file names when prompting to replace files (thanks Smokeybacon) 
16:52 < cathode> damn someone's been busy...
17:02 < SinZ> very busy for classic server software
17:04 < shoghicp> You won't want have PocketMine-MP commits here ;)
17:04 < shoghicp> uh, the MCPE livestream is going to start
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22:57 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to refactoring [+3/-1/±9] http://git.io/ySc1Ww
22:58 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 90aada9 - Added NBT_List serialization
23:15 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to refactoring [+1/-0/±4] http://git.io/wKTq0A
23:15 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 8be1d3a - Added INbtSerializable for custom serialization
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23:31 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to refactoring [+0/-0/±3] http://git.io/ZuvxbQ
23:31 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 5fa9838 - Added NBT serialization bindings to Chunks and Sections
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10:46 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r1947 4 files : Minor change in Mono.Options, to take advantage of new .NET features (contravariance). Bundled fNbt (not hooked up yet) for indev map loading. 
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18:57 < toqueteos> guys are links of packets 0x29 and 0x2A ok on wiki.vg/Protocol?
18:57 < toqueteos> it seems both should point to the same link for the Effect Id info link
19:02 < Thinkofdeath> toqueteos: Both should point to the mcwiki table by the looks of it
19:02 < toqueteos> yep, that's it
19:03 < toqueteos> but i'm not minecraft protocol expert so had to ask here
19:03 < toqueteos> those two packets handle potion effects, right? nothing else
19:03 < Thinkofdeath> yep
19:03 < SinZ> 29 and 2A, aye..
19:05 < Thinkofdeath> Changed it
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19:18 < toqueteos> thanks Thinkofdeath!
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04:14 < dreadiscool> Does anyone have a tutorial on how to use the new bukkit scoreboard API?
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04:15 <+ammar2> #bukkitdev, irc.esper.net
04:15 < dreadiscool> I'm banned off there for reasons I don't know :3
04:16 < dreadiscool> Not really, I got into an argument with mbaxter
04:16 < dreadiscool> Could someone point me in the right direction?
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10:20 < mulka> hi
10:20 < TkTech> mulka: No.
10:20 < mulka> maybe?
10:20 < TkTech> There have been a few attempts, nothing functional.
10:20 < mulka> haha... you know my question already
10:39 < mulka> how about just a web viewer for minecraft worlds?
10:47 < masterm> mulka: execuse my curiosity: what is the question? ;)
10:49 < mulka> has anyone started on an HTML5 client for minecraft
10:50 <+Fador> http://voxeljs.com
10:50 < mulka> voxeljs looks cool, but it doesn't connect to a minecraft server, does it?
10:50 < mulka> or read minecraft world files?
10:50 <+Fador> I don't think so ;)
10:53 < eddyb> mulka: I tried like two years ago, I didn't have the time to keep working on it
10:53 < eddyb> and I wanted to have lots of features, I was dreaming instead of working on it :(
10:55 < TkTech> Small world, #voxel.js uses Notifico.
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10:58 < mulka> seems like voxel.js has the rendering down, now just to convert the file format
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17:33 < rom1504> mulka: there's https://github.com/vogonistic/mineflayer-voxel that uses voxel.js (and mineflayer), it does connect to a server
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14:10 < Ghoul__> Quick question, whats the longest packet minecraft will send in bytes?
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14:12 < Ghoul__> I need to allocate a static buffer for an incoming packet
14:13 < Ghoul__> But there's no point me allocating 10kb if 1kb is perfectly fine and minecraft has a hard-cap or something
14:13 < Ghoul__> Anyone know?
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16:47 < Not-002> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 pushed 6 commits to master [+0/-0/±9] http://git.io/0B94iw
16:47 < Not-002> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo 38f4699 - Unrecognized packetId error printing id in hex
16:47 < Not-002> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo 0ff4907 - friendlyFire on 0xd1 package id changed from bool to byte type
16:47 < Not-002> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo b699d55 - added debug() method for NODE_DEBUG=mc-proto
16:47 < Not-002> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo 936ba58 - added debug output for read/written packet ids
16:48 < Not-002> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo e176938 - Protocol version updated to 1.5.1
16:48 < Not-002> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 1015a97 - Merge pull request #50 from onddo/packetid-3e-3f-fix Fixed parsing package IDs 0x3e and 0x3f
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17:13 < Not-002> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/k54zBQ
17:13 < Not-002> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 bb1918d - Release 0.8.0
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21:54 < SupaYoshi|Switch> whhi is storm2x around?
21:54 < SupaYoshi|Switch> mhm probally not
21:58 <+ammar2> SupaYoshi|Switch: if you have a question, you should just ask it
21:58 < SupaYoshi|Switch> Ah okay
21:58 < SupaYoshi|Switch> well I am using mark2, thanks to you guys :3
21:58 < SupaYoshi|Switch> its awesome of course ;) However I have some questions relating to the java flags.
21:58 < SupaYoshi|Switch> Why so many?
21:58 < SupaYoshi|Switch> http://www.spigotmc.org/threads/performance-tweaking-and-optimisation-server-settings.1483/
21:58 < SupaYoshi|Switch> See my mark2 properties
22:04 <+ammar2> SupaYoshi|Switch: huh? it only has max heap size normally
22:05 < SupaYoshi|Switch> Well i got this one default, didnt edit anything.
22:05 < SupaYoshi|Switch> honest
22:06 < SupaYoshi|Switch> oh wait
22:06 < SupaYoshi|Switch> they are #
22:06 <+ammar2> yup, those would be comments.
22:06 < SupaYoshi|Switch> yep.
22:10 < SupaYoshi|Switch> Can you actually connect IRC to your mc chat just with mark2?
22:10 < SupaYoshi|Switch> without needing a plugin?
22:38 < edk> I'm here
22:38 < edk> SupaYoshi|Switch, yes
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22:39 < edk> SupaYoshi|Switch, mark2's IRC stuff parses your server output and relays to IRC using that
22:43 < edk> SupaYoshi|Switch, note that #mark2 exists, and would avoid clogging this channel. anyone who can help you with mark2 is probably in there.
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22:50 < SupaYoshi> d
22:50 < SupaYoshi> is it laggy?
22:50 < SupaYoshi> *can the IRC integration cause lag?
22:53 < edk> no.
22:54 < SupaYoshi> sec. thnx edk
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--- Day changed dim. avril 07 2013
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10:26 < dechiketeur> hello
10:27 < dechiketeur> how to do a "real" mine ?
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12:29 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1948 12 files : Added some code comments all over. 
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15:48 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1949 2 files : Cleaned up and commented Noise and MapGenerator classes. 
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19:05 < toqueteos> on http://wiki.vg/Protocol_Encryption#Key_Exchange the sentence " The key, when packed into a 0xFD packet, is in ASN.1 format as defined by x.509." means this thing (http://golang.org/pkg/crypto/x509/#MarshalPKCS1PrivateKey) would work? they don't mention DER
19:08 < toqueteos> p.d: hi there! too long message, forgot to say hi :/
19:08 <+ammar2> toqueteos: yeah that should be fine
19:09 < toqueteos> thank god, thank you ammar2
19:09 < toqueteos> i love this language more and more every day
19:09 < toqueteos> gotta test it!
19:09 <+ammar2> writing something mc related in go?
19:09 <+ammar2> sounds interesting
19:09 < toqueteos> yes, smp moddable server
19:09 < SinZ> not the first
19:09 < SinZ> and not the last
19:09 < SinZ> (smp moddable server)
19:09 < toqueteos> yes, and yes
19:10 < toqueteos> PartyCraft was nice but i'm not c# fan..
19:10 < SinZ> PartyCraft was the implemation of Craft.Net
19:10 < toqueteos> yes, both by same author
19:10 < SinZ> Craft.Net is dodgy to use anyway
19:11 < SinZ> he constantly does a major revamp that breaks all existing projects
19:12 < toqueteos> i've talked with him a couple of times on irc didn't follow so much his project
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19:14 < toqueteos> one thing more
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19:15 < toqueteos> on http://wiki.vg/Protocol_Encryption#Overview the text "session.minecraft.net" should be a link to http://wiki.vg/Session
19:15 < toqueteos> just a suggestion
19:15 <+ammar2> feel free to add it in yourself :)
19:15 <+ammar2> its an open wiki
19:17 < toqueteos> time to finally make an account on that wonderful wiki
19:26 < toqueteos> ammar2: are there any other wiki pages about protocol encryption?
19:31 < SinZ> only Session and Protocol_Encryption
19:31 < SinZ> oh, and http://wiki.vg/Protocol_FAQ
19:34 < toqueteos> too much crypto for me.. not used to it there's pkcs and pkcs1 in go's std library about x509
19:35 < toqueteos> gotta try with MarshalPKIXPublicKey and, hopefully it'll work, if not.. goto go's mailing list
19:36 < toqueteos> pkcs1 and pkix*
19:38 < toqueteos> thanks to you SinZ too
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21:02 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 pushed 8 commits to master [+0/-0/±9] http://git.io/_38mYg
21:02 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo 353f156 - fix buffer length checking bug in readSlot()
21:02 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo 086d47b - errors printing in readEntityMetadata() improved
21:02 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo 34e06bd - added entity metadata debugging message
21:02 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo a9afd32 - fixed C2 calculation bug (fixes #35)
21:02 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo bcef115 - debug message printing when you are trying to connect to an online server without credentials
21:02 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo ab0237e - "hash" varible moved inside joinServerRequest function
21:03 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo cf6fae5 - bugfix: debug undefined in inde.js
21:03 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 7ec4cfc - Merge pull request #52 from onddo/some-proto-fixes Some Minecraft Protocol fixes
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21:13 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/N7ZUWQ
21:13 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 ba768db - Release 0.8.1
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10:01 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1950 3 files : Added IMapGenerator and IMapGeneratorGuiProvider interfaces 
10:01 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1951 17 files : Updated copyright notices in ConfigGUI to 2013 
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10:23 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1952 2 files : Extending IMapGenerator a bit 
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16:02 < roblabla> hello
16:04 < roblabla> Can anyone help me out with scoreboards packet ? Whenever I try to use them in my custom server, it make the notchian client crash.
16:26 < roblabla> and nevermind, I figured it out. Finally.
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17:07 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/v6OvxQ
17:07 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] roblabla 6c945b6 - Fix packet 0xce, "create" should be a byte. Renamed "create" to "action", and made it a byte.  According to wiki.vg, 0 is create, 1 to remove, and 2 to update.
17:07 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 d236604 - Merge pull request #53 from roblabla/patch-1 Fix packet 0xce, "create" should be a byte.
17:09 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/7zcQlg
17:09 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 7a5bcf0 - Release 0.9.0
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03:36 < AlphaBlend> Jailout20001: Do it, I dare you
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03:37 < AlphaBlend> oh dang
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21:32 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1953 2 files : Tweaking and documenting IMapGenerator related interfaces. 
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23:57 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1954 12 files : Moved all map generation related files to a new /fCraft/MapGeneration/ directory 
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00:10 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1955 6 files : Additional refinements and documentation of map generation interfaces. 
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00:29 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1956 4 files : Began moving existing MapGenerator/MapGeneratorArgs classes over to new IMapGenerator structure. 
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13:25 < dav1d> clonejo: http://i.imgur.com/5jzbbhX.jpg m(
13:39 < TkTech> That's some wicked account spam.
13:40 < TkTech> kev009: Can you plop the reCAPTCHA extension on the wiki?
13:42 < TkTech> kev009: And run the maintenance/removeUnusedAccounts.php script to slaughter those 500+ spam accounts
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14:22 <+clonejo> dav1d: so what?
14:30 < jast> in my experience, reCAPTCHA isn't all that effective
14:34 < edk> recaptcha + email confirmation might work
14:35 < jast> I had precisely that in a forum I helped run
14:35 < jast> we got about successful 300 registrations per day despite that
14:35 < jast> spammer registrations at that
14:35 < edk> i don't suppose they helpfully all registered from the same domain?
14:35 < jast> I think I may have put words the wrong order in
14:36 < jast> sadly not
14:36 < edk> hmm.
14:36 < jast> consulting a bunch of blacklisting databases helped, though
14:36 < edk> on a project this size, requiring admin approval for new accounts might work
14:36 < jast> require people to show up on IRC and ask for an account :)
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17:21 < Not-001> [mineflayer] superjoe30 pushed 3 commits to master [+0/-0/±4] http://git.io/_Q8lKQ
17:21 < Not-001> [mineflayer] zuazo 2b5487f - Exception fix: AssertionError at physics.js:246:12
17:21 < Not-001> [mineflayer] zuazo cc3eae1 - Exception fix: Trying to access beyond buffer length at blocks.js:132:31
17:21 < Not-001> [mineflayer] superjoe30 17a97c3 - Merge pull request #148 from onddo/some-exceptions-fix Some exceptions fixed
17:23 < Not-001> [mineflayer] superjoe30 pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/g_s8XQ
17:23 < Not-001> [mineflayer] superjoe30 e634295 - update minecraft-protocol version to 0.9.0
17:24 < superjoe> I think mineflayer is back in business thanks to a bunch of great work by zuazo!
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17:30 < Not-001> [mineflayer] superjoe30 pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±3] http://git.io/gNvcVQ
17:30 < Not-001> [mineflayer] superjoe30 2c4f798 - update README
17:30 < Not-001> [mineflayer] superjoe30 5df354b - Release 0.1.0
17:30 < superjoe> rom1504, ^^
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17:55 < Not-001> [mcserve] superjoe30 pushed 2 commits [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/XHUO7g
17:55 < Not-001> [mcserve] superjoe30 c08cbc7 - update dependencies; supports 1.5
17:55 < Not-001> [mcserve] superjoe30 8686e6d - Release 0.5.0
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18:23 < TkTech> jast / edk: That is a possibility; there are between 300 and 600+ daily uniques, but the % of that which contributes is very small.
18:24 < TkTech> superjoe: Awesome, 100% on the current stable?
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18:28 < superjoe> TkTech, it looks like it. When I'm not at work I'm going to do some more regression testing
18:33 < superjoe> it's so wonderful to have someone else do your work for you via pull requests
18:34 < TkTech> I know right‽
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19:42 < Calinou> exclarogation ftw
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--- Day changed jeu. avril 11 2013
00:00  * SpaceManiac yawns
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03:37 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1957 18 files : Continuing the transition of MapGenerator to the new system. Added new FlatMapGenerator class. 
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04:24 <+kev009> TkTech: there is a custom captcha, I think it's human farmed out
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08:23 < pbunny> i am implementing a multithreaded world (separate thread for region)
08:23 < pbunny> sometimes region A needs to access region B (usually adjactent one)
08:23 < pbunny> is this sequence safe? :
08:24 < pbunny> 1) thread A locks region A to do stuff
08:24 < pbunny> 2) thread A needs access to region B
08:24 < pbunny> 3) thread A unlock region A, locks region B
08:24 < pbunny> 4) thread A does stuff with region B
08:24 < pbunny> 5) thread A unlocks region B, locks region A
08:24 < pbunny> 6) ...
08:25 < pbunny> regions contain chunks with blockdata, entities,metaentities and players
08:26 < pbunny> what problems can arise from that (i.e. if region A gets modified while reading region B)?
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09:02 < cathode> i have a better idea:
09:03 < cathode> wait, nvm.
09:21 < ezdiy> pbunny: deadlock, tA locks Tb, Tb locks Ta at the same time.....
09:21 < ezdiy> you want 3) thread A locks region B, unlocks region A to force correct ordering
09:26 < pbunny> ezdiy: no.
09:27 < pbunny> ezdiy: deadlock will occur in your scenario
09:27 < pbunny> ezdiy: in my - tA locks Tb while Tb locks tA and they will both succeed
09:28 < pbunny> cathode: what idea?
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09:28 < jast> why the unlock X/lock Y pairs?
09:29 < pbunny> jast: to prevent deadlock
09:29 < pbunny> so maximum of 1 mutex will be locked by any thread in any time
09:29 < pbunny> still, i'm a bit concerned of what can happen if region A will be modified while thread A is reading something from region B
09:30 < jast> well, all of these locks are strictly finite, right?
09:30 < pbunny> finite?
09:30 < jast> I mean, I don't know what your code actually does with the regions
09:30 < jast> the way I see it, your changes to region B are clearly bounded
09:30 < jast> so if you lock B, it's guaranteed that you'll unlock it again Soon(tm)
09:30 < pbunny> of course
09:30 < jast> I don't see how a deadlock could occur then
09:31 < pbunny> jast: it can't
09:31 < jast> with two mutexes, I mean
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09:31 < pbunny> jast: 1) thread A locks region A 2) thread B locks region B 3) thread A locks region B (freezes) 4) thread B locks region A (freezes)
09:32 < jast> right, makes sense in that case
09:33 < jast> I just have this feeling that the unlock/lock sequence might lead to some kind of race condition
09:33 < jast> depends on what the specific operations are, of course
09:33 < pbunny> reading/writing blocks, changing entity positions, etc
09:33 < ezdiy> pbunny: you're right, it will deadlock in case you screw up unlocking afterwards
09:33 < pbunny> i haven't thought of something dangerous there yet
09:34 < pbunny> ezdiy: i won't screw up unlocking, of course
09:34 < pbunny> still, i imagine hundreds (later - thousands maybe) locking/unlocking done per second
09:34 < pbunny> mutex lock/unlock is fast, right?
09:34 < ezdiy> on single cpu yeah
09:35 < pbunny> on different cpus
09:35 < jast> then no
09:35 < ezdiy> if your threads start pinballing between cpus, well thats different story
09:35 < pbunny> jast: how slow?
09:35 < jast> unless you have hardware-implemented mutexes
09:35 < pbunny> ezdiy: they can't iirc
09:35 < ezdiy> pbunny: linux tries to keep cross-locking threads on same cpu
09:35 < pbunny> when thread is spawned, it won't migrate to another cpu
09:35 < pbunny> well there's 4 cpus now
09:35 < jast> multi-core mutexes require some amount of spinning
09:35 < pbunny> how slow lock/unlock can be?
09:35 < ezdiy> *very*
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09:35 < ezdiy> like 30k a seconds
09:35 < pbunny> ezdiy: in nanoseconds plz
09:36 < ezdiy> 30k/s
09:36 < ezdiy> will burn the machine
09:36 < pbunny> ezdiy: any link about it?
09:36 < ezdiy> nope, just ballpark for my box
09:36 < jast> well they use busy waiting basically
09:37 < ezdiy> pbunny: just try it out
09:37 < ezdiy> pbunny: if you do simple work while locked it should be ok
09:37 < jast> wikipedia lists five algorithms used for implementing cross-core mutexes
09:37 < ezdiy> if you do massive memory access
09:37 < pbunny> well if there will be 100 thread, that means about 25 threads / CPU
09:37 < ezdiy> it will suck
09:37 < ezdiy> simple as that
09:37 < pbunny> so mostly locking/unlocking will be fast, right?
09:37 < ezdiy> pbunny: just try it
09:37 < ezdiy> it depends on scenario
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09:37 < pbunny> ezdiy: i will try it when i implement it
09:37 < jast> what really eats your CPU is freezing while waiting for a lock
09:37 < ezdiy> jast: yup, context switches
09:37 < ezdiy> and cache bouncing
09:38 < ezdiy> thats why its 30-50k range
09:38 < jast> it's a spinloop, basically
09:38 < jast> i.e. while (lock still taken) {}
09:38 < jast> bam, full core usage
09:38 < pbunny> jast: i'm fine with that
09:38 < ezdiy> jast: mutexes are more akin to spin-until-context switch :)
09:38 < pbunny> jast: hmm, wait.
09:38 < jast> well yeah, of course there are context switches
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09:38 < pbunny> jast: what if there's several threads on cpu core and one is locking?
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09:39 < ezdiy> pbunny: don't worry about it
09:39 < jast> but since the thread now requires a lot of CPU time, it'll get more time allocated to it by the scheduler
09:39 < ezdiy> pbunny: it does not work like that :)
09:39 < jast> that takes away CPU time from the other threads on the same core
09:39 < ezdiy> jast: nah, the task is scheduled back once the lock is released
09:39 < ezdiy> kernels are not *that* stupid
09:39 < ezdiy> unless you use custom userspace spinlocks
09:39 < jast> depends on the implementation of the lock
09:40 < jast> what are you using for locking?
09:40 < pbunny> pthread_mutex_lock
09:40 < ezdiy> then its a futex
09:40 < jast> that's userspace locking afaik
09:40 < ezdiy> spinning-until-cs
09:40 < ezdiy> and scheduled back on release
09:40 < ezdiy> ie 0% cpu usage
09:41 < jast> ah, kernel-accelerated, nice
09:42 < ezdiy> pbunny: btw, you can use lockfree structure for a region
09:42 < ezdiy> pbunny: if you want it to really scale
09:43 < ezdiy> (if its just simple array, atomic ops speed up things mightily at a cost of sub-nanosecond ingame race windows between blocks)
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09:49 < pbunny> ezdiy: what do you mean?
09:49 < jast> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_operation
09:49 < pbunny> btw, i decided to remove regions and just use array of chunks for every thread
09:50 < pbunny> and use a thread pool
09:50 < ezdiy> pbunny: AtomicIntegerArray, in java :)
09:50 < pbunny> ezdiy: java sucks.
09:50 < ezdiy> well, or anything equivalent
09:50 < ezdiy> it exists in every decent language
09:50 < pbunny> ezdiy: atomic in multi-threaded app still requires locking
09:50 < pbunny> so i don't see difference
09:51 < ezdiy> heh
09:51 < ezdiy> nevermind
09:51 < ezdiy> :)
09:51 < ezdiy> (just read the java docs what kind of locking you really need for atomic array ops)
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09:53 < pbunny> i want nothing to do with java
09:56 < pbunny> ezdiy: i prefer updating a block with single operation (assignment)
09:56 < pbunny> not 100 like in java
09:57 < ezdiy> hehe
09:57 < ezdiy> once again
09:57 < ezdiy> you dont need locking for that
09:57 < ezdiy> thats what atomic ops are for
09:57 < pbunny> ezdiy: you can't just write to something thread-safe without locking.
09:58 < pbunny> well you can time threads carefully but that's wrong
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09:59 < ezdiy> pbunny: seriously, you dont need locks to assign, increment, test or increment an array value
10:00 < ezdiy> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linearizability#Primitive_atomic_instructions
10:01 < ezdiy> (lock-free lists and trees can be implemented on top of that)
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10:05 < pbunny> "This mechanism is not sufficient in a multi-processor environment since each CPU can interfere with the process regardless of whether interrupts occur or not."
10:05 < pbunny> thx ezdiy 
10:06 < ezdiy> pbunny: When there are multiple instructions which must be completed without interruption :)
10:06 < ezdiy> (who said there are?)
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10:07 < ezdiy> but you're right that compare-and-swap is not for the faint of the heart (which is why we use fancy java libraries to do that for us :)
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10:08 < pbunny> ezdiy: yeah, and the second solution there is using locking
10:08 < pbunny> you've been most useful
10:09 < pbunny> "retry if the value read in by the compare-and-swap did not match the value we originally read" - true java approach, lol
10:09 < ezdiy> hehe
10:09 < ezdiy> we do that in c++ too
10:09 < ezdiy> whats worse, even linux kernel does it
10:09 < ezdiy> (lock free lru)
10:10 < ezdiy> pbunny: btw, running separate thread for each region and using lockfree queue (such as zeromq) to pass messages between them works too
10:11 < pbunny> ezdiy: passing messages will increase lag
10:11 < ezdiy> how?
10:11 < ezdiy> its just atomic writes
10:11 < ezdiy> and reads
10:11 < ezdiy> *no waiting*
10:11 < ezdiy> on mutexes :)
10:12 < pbunny> ezdiy: everything waits while atomic write is going.
10:12 < pbunny> with mutexes, only related threads wait
10:12 < ezdiy> The compare-and-swap instruction allows any processor to atomically test and modify a memory location, preventing such multiple-processor collisions.
10:13 < ezdiy> thats it
10:13 < ezdiy> others processor go on *unless* they touch the value
10:13 < ezdiy> at the exact same time
10:14 < ezdiy> pbunny: locks are heavyweight and always will be, however not everything can be implemented lock free (ie succession of operations which *must* be done in succession, without other threads interference)
10:14 < ezdiy> depends on what youre trying to do
10:14 < pbunny> ezdiy: good. so every write will stop 25% of my threads
10:14 < pbunny> ( as i have only 4 cores)
10:14 < ezdiy> all threads write to the same location?
10:14 < pbunny> a mutex lock will stop like 1-2 threads
10:15 < ezdiy> pbunny: the instruction does not stop other cpus btw
10:15 < pbunny> ezdiy: i won't have a single write.
10:15 < ezdiy> it compares and swaps
10:15 < ezdiy> :)
10:15 < pbunny> there are like hundreds of writes per second per thread
10:15 < pbunny> atomic write is slower
10:15 < ezdiy> never mind :)
10:15 < ezdiy> just tried to preach proper mt coding practices and failed miserably
10:16 < ezdiy> linux developers got it all wrong
10:16 < ezdiy> and guys at sun too :)
10:16 < jast> ezdiy: some people can't be preached to
10:17 < jast> some people have a different conception of statistics and probability than everyone else
10:17 < jast> if I have many writes, it follows by necessity that all of them will touch the exact same location every time!
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10:23 < pbunny> jast: atomic writes are slower than regular writes.
10:26 < jast> and locks are slower than atomic writes. so let's use locks!
10:27 < ezdiy> pbunny: thats why its used only seldom on things like message queues
10:27 < ezdiy> :)
10:27 < pbunny> "In computer science, compare-and-swap (CAS) is an atomic instruction used in multithreading to achieve synchronization. It compares the contents of a memory location to a given value and, only if they are the same, modifies the contents of that memory location to a given new value."
10:27 < pbunny> so its completely useless for me
10:27 < ezdiy> btw
10:27 < ezdiy> here comes the shocker
10:27 < ezdiy> locks are implemented using
10:27 < ezdiy> guess what
10:27 < ezdiy> CAS!
10:27 < ezdiy> :)
10:27 < pbunny> ok, so?
10:27 < ezdiy> well, naturally its useless to you
10:28 < pbunny> jast: 1 lock + 100 writes is faster than 100 atomic writes
10:28 < ezdiy> so you dont need locks either
10:28 < pbunny> or 1000
10:28 < ezdiy> (sorry but you started :)
10:28 < ezdiy> pbunny: thats probably true
10:28 < ezdiy> if you indeed do lock and 100 writes
10:28 < pbunny> i will write more probably
10:28 < ezdiy> if you do lock, write, unlock
10:28 < ezdiy> then no
10:28 < pbunny> what
10:28 < pbunny> why?
10:29 < ezdiy> lock, write, unlock = atomicwrite
10:29 < pbunny> ezdiy: yeah
10:29 < pbunny> so?
10:29 < pbunny> it will be a single write
10:29 < ezdiy> except atomic op is like zillion times faster
10:29 < pbunny> how so?
10:29 < ezdiy> instead of doing lack/unlock before and after
10:30 < ezdiy> simply put
10:30 < ezdiy> because lock and unlock
10:30 < ezdiy> are CAS in themselves
10:30 < pbunny> yes, so?
10:30 < pbunny> they are done once per iteration
10:30 < pbunny> not for every write
10:30 < ezdiy> CAS, write, CAS
10:30 < ezdiy> or just CAS
10:30 < ezdiy> which one is faster?
10:30 < pbunny> are you a troll?
10:30 < ezdiy> sorry
10:30 < ezdiy> you started
10:30 < pbunny> CAS, write everything, CAS
10:30 < ezdiy> ah
10:30 < pbunny> or CAS, write, CAS, write, CAS, ...
10:30 < ezdiy> i asked
10:31 < ezdiy> 10:24 < ezdiy> if you indeed do lock and 100 writes
10:31 < ezdiy> :)
10:31 < ezdiy> (i know, that makes me the troll now)
10:32 < ezdiy> you'll need lock for that because atomic ops are useless for things which must be done in succession
10:32 < ezdiy> which is much bigger concern
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22:01 < rom1504> superjoe: hi, nice that mineflayer is up to date :)
22:01 < superjoe> hi :)
22:01 < rom1504> however... i keep having this problem with callsite taking forever in the npm install
22:01 < rom1504> it takes like 40s before callsite
22:02 < rom1504> then a lot of time, i'm not sure it's going to end
22:02 < rom1504> and if it stop it, it complains about ursa_native if i try to launch it
22:03 < rom1504> oh, it finally did it, something like 3min after, seem i'm not patient enough
22:04 < rom1504> seems strange it should take that much time doing it seems nothing though
22:08 < rom1504> well, everything that worked before seem to work
22:08 < rom1504> (i.e. not crafting)
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22:23 < superjoe> yes I saw that in the issue
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06:09 <+SpaceManiac> In the Berekely vicinity for the weekend, any sights to see?
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14:34 < TkTech> Bah, damn ice storm, slowly running out of things to leech batteries from.
14:41 < Morrolan> Better hook your bike up to a generator, then. ;)
14:46 < TkTech> Bike is buried in a pitch black storage room :/
14:49 < Morrolan> Oh. Where do you live, that there's snow storms which cut you off from the power grid, anyway?
14:57 < TkTech> Peterborough. This isn't a snow storm, it's an ice storm.
14:57 < TkTech> Snow storms don't do that much to a Canadian city short of something insane :)
15:01 < TkTech> This is past when these storms normally happen, so people have summer tires on, salt+sand contracts are over, and such
15:01 < TkTech> But a bad ice storm can be much worse (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Ice_Storm_of_1998)
15:02 < dav1d> lol
15:02 < dav1d> wikipedia shows me that in the mobile version
15:02 < dav1d> nvm
15:02 < dav1d> it's a mobile link
15:05 < TkTech> Sorry, I'm on a phone, my UPS died two hours ago
15:05 < eddyb> :(
15:05 < dav1d> TkTech: :O
15:05 < dav1d> never had such a storm
15:06 < eddyb> TkTech: how long is it bound to keep going like that?
15:06 < eddyb> just hours or can it go for days?
15:06 < TkTech> This is pretty much over now, it's bumped up just above 0 so it's just rain, but it'll get worse if it continues into the night and starts freezing again.
15:07 < TkTech> The duration isn't the problem, it destroys trees and above ground infrastructure
15:07 < eddyb> it's like hail?
15:07 < TkTech> The power can be out for 10 minutes or in the absolute worst cases over a month.
15:07 < TkTech> Depends on how much has to be fixed/rebuilt
15:08 < eddyb> one minute everything is fine, the next hell breaks loose
15:08 < TkTech> Not really, it doesn't freeze until it touches something
15:08 < TkTech> Which is why it damages power lines
15:09 < dav1d> canada lol
15:09 < dav1d> poor guys!
15:09 < eddyb> well, I hope you get in the clear soon and it's not too much of a mess to deal with :/
15:10 <+ammar2> TkTech: how long does your ups run?
15:10 < TkTech> Thanks :)
15:11 < TkTech> When just running the router and DCIS modem hours
15:11 < TkTech> With a 90watt laptop not very long, around 30 minutes
15:11 < eddyb> dav1d: yeah, here it's spring, 23°C inside with no heating and open windows, and outside I can hear birds singing and there's a cherry tree just outside by block and it's blossomed
15:12 < dav1d> yeah same here
15:12 < dav1d> well, yesterday
15:12 < dav1d> vienna!
15:12 <+ammar2> nice place vienna, spent around a week or so there on vacation
15:13 < eddyb> TkTech: that sounds like what my laptop battery would last if I didn't use sleep to save it
15:13 < dav1d> ammar2: you're german?
15:13 <+ammar2> dav1d: nope
15:13 < dav1d> ah
15:13 < dav1d> so many of this channel are german, but can't remember who actually is german ...
15:14 < dav1d> yeah moved to vienna for studies, so far it's a really cool city
15:14 <+ammar2> aah, my brother actually studied there too
15:14 <+ammar2> part of the astromundus program
15:15 < TkTech> How affordable is it for a student?
15:16 <+ammar2> my brother was on a 50% scholarship or so, so I can't say for certain
15:17 < TkTech> Lucky, most of you get college/university so much cheaper than in North America
15:17 < dav1d> vienne is relativly cheap
15:19 < dav1d> 150€ for a student public transport ticket (if you're not a austrian citizen) and you pay 17,50€/semester for the university
15:19 < dav1d> you can get a room from 280€ to unlimited, but for ~330€ you can get a nice room
15:22 < TkTech> That character is a block, supposed to be the euro sign?
15:22 < dav1d> yeah
15:22 < dav1d> utf-8 with latin-1 as fallback!
15:24 < eddyb> TkTech: http://starlogs.net/#mcdevs/Burger
15:24 < eddyb> I hope you can load that on your phone
15:25 < TkTech> Surprisingly, yes
15:25 < TkTech> Hey, power!
15:26 < TkTech> ...and it's gone.
15:26 < eddyb> (^_^) :D
15:26 < eddyb> :(
15:28 < dav1d> eddyb: lol
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16:36 < toqueteos> hi there guys, i've been struggling to get http://wiki.vg/Protocol_Encryption#Client this working but I always get NO as response.. any suggestions?
16:37 < roblabla> your sessionID or username is probably wrong
16:38 < toqueteos> oh, sorry it's the server section, not the client's one
16:38 < toqueteos> it has to be the serverId part, i think
16:38 < toqueteos> because i verified the encrypted token received
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16:42 < toqueteos> my sha1-javaish function works as expected, encrypted token sent is ok, username ok.. hmm
16:47 < toqueteos> here's the sha1 function, is anyone ok if I add it to the examples section? http://play.golang.org/p/UY1ki55CPt
16:47 < toqueteos> everyone*
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17:14 < jast> it's "complement", not "compliment" :P
17:17 < toqueteos> lol, you are right
17:17 < toqueteos> thanks jast, will fix it right now
17:22 < toqueteos> another question: why isn't https://minecraft.net/haspaid.jsp?user=<username> used to check if a player has premium version or not?
17:23 < jast> used by what?
17:23 < toqueteos> servers with online-mode=true
17:23 < jast> why should it?
17:23 < jast> the login server knows it anyway
17:23 < toqueteos> simpler approach
17:24 < conehead> Because that still doesn't establish that the player is who they say they are
17:24 < toqueteos> i could use it for my server but i want to use the standar sha-1 weird hash thingy
17:24 < toqueteos> because you verify the token sent before you compute the sha-1 hash
17:26 < toqueteos> that sha-1 hash doesn't say if the player is who he says he is
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17:48 < toqueteos> yay! i got it working
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18:13 < TkTech> Bleh, my UPS is more reliable than my teleco, untested generator failed so now 115000 people have no power, no Internet, and the cell network is piss slow.
18:14 < roblabla> that makes many angry people...
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18:19 < TkTech> Indeed. No longer a quick fix, lines need to be rebuilt. http://twitter.com/banjomommy/status/322732027784863744/photo/1
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20:05 < SL37> Hey can anyone shed some light on Encryption Key Response 0xFC?
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20:05 < SL37> I am reading some stuff on mc.kev009.com about Minecrafts network protocol and am having some trouble parsing it.
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20:07 < SL37> It states it should consist of a string + short + byte array + short + byte array but they state the total size is 7 + string + array sizes
20:07 < SL37> Which I don't see how a byte + short + short = 7?
20:07 < roblabla> eh ?
20:07 < roblabla> 0xFC doesn't contain strings ?
20:08 < roblabla> it's Short + Byte Array + Short + Byte Array
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20:08 < SL37> Ah crap... I am reading 0xFD.
20:09 < SL37> Wow I originally coded it as that and then I accidently flipped to 0xFD.
20:09 < SL37> But while I am at is how to they figure 0xFD is 7 bytes +?
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20:19 < roblabla> SL37: 1 byte for the packet id + 2 bytes for the length of string + 2 bytes for length of key + 2 bytes for length of token
20:20 < roblabla> Remember, the string always sends a short with it's length. 
20:22 < SL37> Ah that I didn't know.
20:23 < SL37> Which would really help me in attempting to parse this string haha.
20:23 < roblabla> You should read about the default types
20:23 < roblabla> It really helps
20:24 < SL37> I did go over it but skipped over string. So yeah that was an apparent mistake.
20:24 < roblabla> yup ^^
20:26 < SL37> Why was the server check string in little endian where everything else is in big endian if you happen to know that?
20:26 < SL37> Server List Ping to be more clear
20:27 < roblabla> I believe to make it easier for websites to parse ? I dunno.
20:27 < roblabla> Everything in java is in big-endian normally
20:28 < roblabla> Wait what ?
20:28 < roblabla> 0xFF always sends strings in big endian if that's what you're talking about
20:30 < SL37> Ah that may be why. And it was sending 0xFE
20:30  * roblabla is confusled
20:30 < roblabla> are you coding a client or a server ?
20:30 < roblabla> 0xFE doesn't contain any string.
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20:31 < SL37> 0xFE sends a string.
20:31 < roblabla> no
20:31 < SL37> Gah 0xFF sorry
20:31 < roblabla> then yes, it does
20:31 < roblabla> and it sends a big-endian UCS string
20:31 < SL37> My code is real messy right now as I get this all working so I am all over the place.
20:32 < roblabla> bbl
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20:33 < SL37> Ah ok yup I noticed that my buffer is little endian as I pass a string into it being converted to little endian. Which is like a double negative.
20:34 < SL37> But there is a typo then on the site.
20:34 < SL37> "After the first 3 bytes, the packet is a little-endian UCS-2 string." As stated on the Server_List_Ping page.
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21:13 < SL37> @roblabla Yeah I noticed I was confused because there was a typo on the site. On the Server_List_Ping page it states that it is a little-endian UCS-2 string.
21:14 < roblabla> Hmm
21:26 < pbunny> hi.
21:26 < pbunny> in Client Settings (0xCC) packet, there is "View distance byte 0 0-3 for 'far', 'normal', 'short', 'tiny'. "
21:27 < pbunny> what are exact values (radius of chunks?) of these 'far', 'normal', 'short', 'tiny' ?
21:27 < dav1d> 3,5,7,10?
21:27 < dav1d> but only guesses
21:28 < pbunny> 10 means player can see 10 chunks away?
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21:37 < SL37> What is the KeySpec of the servers key?
21:37 <+ammar2> well, the view distance is represented by the number of chunks away from the one the player is standing on
21:37 <+ammar2> check the mc wiki, they usually have info on this sorta stuff
21:39 < SL37> Hmm they talk about making a SharedSecret  which I am a little confused about but got working. But then it shows "encrypts it with the server's public key (PKCS#1 v1.5 padded)" but I assume that means the cipher type.
22:15 < dav1d> SL37: you want server or client side?
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22:16 < dav1d> SL37: https://gist.github.com/Dav1dde/3900517 helps maybe
22:17 < SL37> This is the client side. Basically trying to figure out how to generate the client encryption key which I think I have. But I am having problems converting the server key.
22:18 < dav1d> then the gist is for you
22:19 < SL37> It looks right that I am parsing the server message correctly but I get a key size of 162 which doesn't make sense.
22:19 < dav1d> then you parse the packet wrong
22:22 < SL37> Ah I think where I am off is that it is an RSA key.
22:23 < SL37> So now I am more confused because does the server use an RSA key where the client uses an AES key?
22:24 < SL37>  client will generate a 16-byte shared secret, to be used with the AES/CFB8 stream cipher
22:25 < SL37> Because what I generate from that is a SecretKeySpec is used with AES, also it states that it is an AES stream... which I assume RSA wouldn't be using.
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22:29 < dav1d> SL37: it's a safe key exchange
22:29 < dav1d> RSA → exchange AES key → AES
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22:40 < SL37> Gah, there we go looks like it is working.
22:41 < SL37> The server isn't kicking me on response. Just need to enable encryption on my stream and send the 0 payload. Thanks.
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--- Day changed sam. avril 13 2013
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01:02 < SL37> Hey what is the proper java cipher information when ciphering the 0xFC packet?
01:03 < SL37> I have so far "RSA/../PKCS1Padding" and I am using "AES/CFB8/NoPadding" for sending my login packet but it is rejecting my login packet.
01:05 < SL37> I assume I am either not encrypting properly when sending my AES key causing it to decipher incorrectly which I assume is wrong. Or I am ciphering my AES traffic wrong which I think I am doing right.
01:12 < SL37> Ok I am sending "RSA/ECB..." which I am getting a packet back. Need to find out why my login request 0xCD isn't going through. I am using "AES/CFB8/NoPadding" which looks right.
01:13 < roblabla> I *think* you need to pad
01:13 < roblabla> let me take a look at my code
01:14 < roblabla> wait, SL37, you making a client or a server ?
01:18 < dav1d> you need padding read the stuff we link you
01:18 < roblabla> aes128-cbf8 with sharedSecret both as key and IV
01:19 < roblabla> and you need to pad using PKCS1
01:20 < dav1d> use sadimusis mcp3 proxy to debug the sequence
01:22 < roblabla> dav1d: link ?
01:22 < roblabla> I can't find it o_O
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01:25 < dav1d> Dunno, search git hub, I am on phone
01:29 < roblabla> Kay
01:32 < SL37> And it is a client.
01:32 < SL37> "AES/CFB8/PKCS1Padding" ?
01:32 < roblabla> Looks good
01:37 <+ammar2> PKCS1Padding is part of the RSA bit, not sure why you're linking it with AES
01:37 < SL37> For sending packets after the auth.
01:37 < SL37> I am sending my 0xcd packet.
01:39 < dav1d> o.O
01:39 < SL37> From what i read i generate an aes key and encrypt it with the rsa key and send that back with 0xfc packet. Which works because i get a blank 0xfc packet back.
01:39 < dav1d> Aes has no padding
01:40 < roblabla> oh derp
01:40 < dav1d> and a blocksize of 8bit (this specific AES)
01:40 < roblabla> I goofed
01:40 < dav1d> AES128CFB8
01:40 < SL37> Yea I thought not because when I was reading regular MC traffic I noticed it was only 2 bytes long.
01:40 < dav1d> a padding would ruin it, since you get a constant stream you can't tell to wait for N bytes to start decrypting
01:41 < SL37> Yeah I have a 128 bit key and my cipher is "AES/CFB8/NoPadding"
01:41 < roblabla> SL37: what do you use as key and IV ?
01:41 < dav1d> rsa padding is: RSA_PKCS1_PADDING
01:41 < dav1d> wat?
01:41 < dav1d> AES CFB8 can't have a padding
01:42 < dav1d> also rsa != aes
01:42 < SL37> "RSA/ECB/PKCS1Padding" is my cipher for my 0xfc packet
01:42 < dav1d> rsa is used to exchange the AES key (which is the IV at the same time)
01:42 < roblabla> SL37: what language are you using ? 
01:43 < SL37> Java.
01:43 < dav1d> easy, if you can understand the packet, function doesn't error, you have most likely the correect
01:43 < SL37> And yeah I know.
01:43 < dav1d> also ECB reads wrong, but whatever I am not sure
01:43 < dav1d> also read the wiki, I am pretty sure there are examples
01:44 < SL37> I read the RSA key and generate an AES key on the client. I then encrypt my AES key with RSA and the verify key. I send both back.
01:44 < dav1d> lol
01:44 < dav1d> no Java example
01:44 < dav1d> but C++, C#, D
01:44 < SL37> Which works and the server gives me back the 0xFC packet with the blanks meaning that went well.
01:44 < dav1d> SL37: so you read the stuff someone links you?
01:45 < dav1d> so where is the problem...
01:45 < roblabla> no Java example for a protocol originally implemented in java...
01:45 < SL37> Also they aren't examples for this I don't think. They are for authing with MC.net
01:45 < dav1d> roblabla: use mcp
01:45 < SL37> And I understand C# and C++ fluently.
01:45 < dav1d> SL37: wrong
01:45 < roblabla> dav1d: decompiling minecraft takes like a day with my laptop...
01:45 < SL37> Where am I wrong?
01:45 < dav1d> there are 5 examples, and I linked you a guide on how to do it
01:46 < dav1d> roblabla: isn't that bad
01:46 < SL37> http://mc.kev009.com/Protocol_Encryption is where I am now.
01:46 < dav1d> performance increased quite a lot
01:46 < SL37> And there I see 3.
01:46 < dav1d> SL37: I see 5 and I linked you one of these
01:46 < SL37> Examples of generating Java-style hex digests: 
01:46 < dav1d> now scroll 1cm further down
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01:46 < SL37> Ah I see.
01:47 < dav1d> SL37: also wiki.vg
01:48 < dav1d> SL37: also if you understand that code fluently: https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/brala/network/connection.d
01:48 < dav1d> have fun, I am going to sleep
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01:53 < SL37> Huh yeah it doesn't seem to make any sense. From that connection.d I am following the same steps.
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02:24 <+md_5> <SL37> "AES/CFB8/PKCS1Padding" ?
02:24 <+md_5> NoPadding
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02:36 < SL37> What is IV?
02:36 < SL37> So I am thinking I am missing something here.
02:37 <+ammar2> initalization vector
02:38 < SL37> Once I get 0xFD (Enc Key Req) then I respond with 0xFC then the server responds with an empty 0xFC. 
02:39 < SL37> That seems to be working. Is the next step not to send an 0xCD (Client Status) w/ 0?
02:39 < SL37> I see there is something about a second 0xFC but I don't see any documentation further explaining this 0xFC.
02:40 < SL37> "After decrypting the shared secret in the second 0xFC"
02:41 < SL37> But I also packet sniffed vanilla MC client and it appeared that I should be doing everything correctly.
02:45 < Ghoul_> Hey guys
02:45 < Ghoul_> I was wondering who else gets pissed off by the fact minecraft packets don't have a length descriptor at the front of them
02:46 <+ammar2> SL37: yeah, once you receive the empty FC from the server you enable encryption and continue as you would normally
02:47 < Ghoul_> I recently tried to write a server using boost::asio
02:47 < Ghoul_> w/ 8 threads and fully async callbacks
02:47 < Ghoul_> lawd, I had to parse the packets for length to ensure they had fully arrived _and then_ I had to parse them for their actual data
02:47 < Ghoul_> ff
02:48 <+ammar2> welcome to minecraft development
02:48 < Ghoul_> lol
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02:48 < Ghoul_> I guess thread per socket is probably the best way to handle minecraft async
02:48 < Ghoul_> since then you can just use blocking reads
02:49 <+ammar2> nah, you can make non blocking io work too, a couple of projects here do it already
02:50 < Ghoul_> Well
02:50 < Ghoul_> Examples?
02:51 < Ghoul_> Because I always had the issue of trying to parse the packet lengths to know how much more to receive before calling the async handler was really expensive (and tiresome)
02:52 <+ammar2> bravo comes to mind https://github.com/bravoserver/bravo
02:52 <+ammar2> its high level, python, uses twisted
02:53 <+ammar2> not sure if you'll get much useful info out of it
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04:18 < SL37> In java what keyspec would I be using to generate a key from a recieved servers RSA key? X509EncodedKeySpec?
04:21 <+md_5> SecretKeySpec("aes")
04:21 <+md_5> iirc
04:22 < SL37> From an RSA key?
04:23 < SL37> I mean I have the byte data from the data stream that is to represent an rsa key.
04:23 < SL37> I used an X509EncodedKeySpec(byteRSAarray)
04:24 <+md_5>       KeyFactory keyfactory = KeyFactory.getInstance("RSA");
04:24 <+md_5> keyfactory.generatePublic(spec)
04:25 < SL37> KeyFactory.getInstance("RSA").generatePublic(new X509EncodedKeySpec(secret)); //Secret is the key array
04:25 < SL37> Is what I have.
04:26 < SL37> Cipher c = Cipher.getInstance("RSA/ECB/PKCS1Padding");
04:26 < SL37> c.init(Cipher.DECRYPT_MODE, rsa_key);
04:27 < SL37> Once I try and do a c.doFinal(enc_aes_key_array) I am getting a bad padding exception.
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04:59 < SL37> I saved an RSA key and an encrypted AES key to a text file. I verified the data from packet sniffing. When reading I verified as well. And both match up perfectly. What I am trying to do is decrypt the enc_aes using the RSA.
04:59 < SL37> Which is giving me the bad padding exception.
05:02 < SL37> The weird part is it is saying is saying Blocktype mismatch: -85 but I don't have a -85 (0xab) in my aes key.
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05:17 < SuperStunts> Hi, anyone know how to install python blessings on centos?
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05:47 <+SpaceManiac> Berkeley is nifty
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11:27 < pbunny> is there a way to disable achievements server-side ?
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11:45 < Calinou> no
11:45 < Calinou> all achievements are client side
12:11 < pbunny> what is the maximum number of chunks i can send in 0x38 (chunk bulk) packet?
12:12 < dav1d> I think it's unlimited (well limited by the type specifieng the number of chunks sent)
12:13 < pbunny> i remember seeing limit of 50 or so somewhere in wiki (values higher will cause client to crash) but can't find it anymore
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14:41 < pbunny> for some weird reason only 0x0 chunk is processed correctly on client when i send 0x38 packet
14:41 < pbunny> chunks with any other positions are ignored 
14:41 < pbunny> any ideas?
14:42 < dav1d> what if you only send one chunk at a time?
14:42 < dav1d> bukkit did that for a long time (maybe still does it)
14:43 < pbunny> dav1d: no difference
14:43 < pbunny> oh, you mean 0x33 ?
14:43 < pbunny> well i got 0x38 working on previous (ugly) version of my server
14:44 < pbunny> dav1d: can you connect to anonymous.lv:1337 and see what's going on?
14:44 < pbunny> it should send a single 1x1 chunk in 0x38 (spawn position is 20x20)
14:45 < pbunny> however client behaves like chunk wasn't received
14:45 < dav1d> nope sorry I can't
14:45 < dav1d> I have nothing set up right now
15:07 < pbunny> ok, i forgot to reverse endianness
15:07 < pbunny> stupid java
16:00 < jast> it's called network byte order... not exclusively a java thing
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16:48 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/H8iFMg
16:48 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo 8760ff5 - in packet 0x66, "shift" must be of type byte instead of boolean
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20:16 < TkTech> https://twitter.com/Dinnerbone/status/323049123664257024
20:19 < eddyb> from #minecraft: you can list and invalidate sessions/tokens
20:20 < eddyb> for example, you can share your account with someone without them being able to know your password, and you can revoke that access at any time
20:20 < roblabla> ._. that's awesome
20:22 < roblabla> eddyb: but can you have multiple valid tokens ?
20:22 < Grum> the idea was to eventually support upto 3
20:22 < eddyb> roblabla: IIRC yeah
20:22 < Grum> the number is kinda pulled from our ass though, we'll do whatever is a comfortable number to handle :)
20:23 < SinZ> so, lastlogin doesnt exist anymore, neat
20:23 < Grum> yeah no more 'oh hai password'
20:23 < eddyb> oh, and you might be able to have multiple copies of minecraft, each with its own username, under one mojang account
20:23 < Grum> yeah we'll end up doing a blizzard-style dropdown if you have multiple accounts
20:23 < Grum> (where you login, then select the account to play with)
20:30 < ShaRose> sweet
20:30 < ShaRose> when I came up with my auth idea I think I was thinking of 3-5 as well :V
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20:32 < TkTech> Grum: Any consideration for "parental controls"?
20:32 < eddyb> oh, heh
20:32 < Grum> TkTech: what sort?
20:33 < TkTech> For example an adult owning the mojang account and kids allowed to have their own under that.
20:33 < TkTech> Simple things for small children, like a "This user cannot play online" checkbox.
20:33 < eddyb> the parent mojang account can be used for all of them. and the parent can invalidate their tokens
20:33 < Grum> hmm nothing like that planned
20:33 < eddyb> if they don't know the password, they just can't play
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20:34 < SinZ> then you have the problem, what happens when the child is old enough to have his/her own mojang account
20:34 < TkTech> Exactly, it lends itself to it nicely, just need to build on it.
20:34 < SinZ> how easy would it be to transfer
20:34 < Grum> euuh not really trivial to do 'right'
20:34 < Grum> also ... they'll just use another launcher? :/
20:34 < TkTech> We're talking young kids here Grum.
20:35 < TkTech> Nothing complex necessary, just very simple controls.
20:35 < SinZ> the kids still too young to play CoD
20:35 < TkTech> I know many people (and some at work) that play with their kids who are very young.
20:35 < Grum> not really sure what the issue is with online play though
20:36 < SinZ> stay safe online
20:36 < SinZ> they dont know that
20:36 < Grum> 'very young'
20:36 < SinZ> dont know the concept of griefing
20:36 < eddyb> also, minecraft can be addictive :P
20:36 < TkTech> Grum: Co-worker X has two kids who play Minecraft with him and come home on the bus or with mom long before he does.
20:36 < TkTech> Grum: He'd love to let them play whenever they wanted but doesn't let them go online without supervision.
20:37 < ShaRose> TkTech they can just play offline
20:38 < Grum> i guess for that its would be best to have a 'timeslot' per mc-account and have the auth-server simply prevent them from playing online
20:38 < ShaRose> I'm assuming he has software to block access to the internet for third party applications, right?
20:38 < ShaRose> if so there's nothing to worry about
20:38 < Grum> or that indeed
20:38 < Grum> there is far better software for that than what we can provide
20:38 < ShaRose> it'll just say "Can't connect, wanna play online? Ok then, launching"
20:38 < ShaRose> and then they can connect to a lan server they can play on together or something
20:39 < TkTech> But how does that work when one kid shares his world with LAN play?
20:39 < ShaRose> if MC is blocked from internet access it'd share it.. over lan
20:39 < Grum> that is only local?
20:39 < TkTech> But does LAN work with two users from the same account?
20:39 < Grum> it should
20:40 < Grum> you login as a different mc-user
20:40 < ShaRose> well they'd need different names yeah
20:40 < Grum> if they select two different accounts, should just work fine
20:41 < TkTech> Okay, so, WAN is blocked, clients are forced offline.
20:41 < Grum> they have to have been logged in before
20:41 < TkTech> Two kids using previously-logged in launchers (by Dad) want to play on the lan.
20:41 < Grum> should be fine?
20:42 < ShaRose> ^
20:42 < TkTech> Yay
20:43 < Grum> they can just play in offline mode but that still lets lan-work
20:43 < Grum> s/-/ /
20:43 < TkTech> There are going to be lots of little edge cases with this, I think.
20:43 < Grum> not really sure how
20:43 < Grum> if you play offline you just so not get a session from the login-server
20:43 < TkTech> User logs into server, user changes name, user logs back into that same server using another launcher.
20:43 < Grum> so the session server will not let you play anywhere
20:43 < TkTech> Does the sever limit connections by username or by account
20:44 < Grum> it doesnt limit connections at all
20:44 < Grum> active sessionkey, just like it is now, per mc (NOT mojang) account
20:44 < ShaRose> I thought it did limit one user per name though
20:45 < TkTech> It's supposed to, hence why I see a problem.
20:45 < Grum> nah it just remembers the last session id i think
20:45 < Grum> TkTech: what is the 'problem' ?
20:46 < TkTech> Grum: Do I assume correctly that you'll be able to change, create, or delete usernames under this one master account?
20:46 < Grum> wait, lets the the terminology right
20:46 < Grum> what do you consider 'username'
20:46 < Grum> because right not it is: 1 mc account per mojang account
20:46 < TkTech> A username is the name that shows up over your head in Minecraft, the account is the mojang account you logged in with.
20:46 < Grum> it will be 'multiple mc accounts' per mojang account
20:47 < TkTech> So each must be purchased and attached?
20:47 < Grum> yes
20:47 < TkTech> Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh. 
20:47 < SinZ> Also, is login.minecraft.net getting a revamp for the launcher?
20:47 < Grum> yes
20:47 < SinZ> including more error messages?
20:47 < Grum> or rather; we'll be making a new api on it; the current one will remain working but only for 1.5.x
20:47 < Grum> (basically the old launcher)
20:49 < Grum> and you're going to need the new launcher to have any chance of starting the 1.6 and up
20:50 < SinZ> including with the snapshots?
20:50 < Grum> yes
20:51 < Grum> whch is why there are no snapshots
20:51 < Grum> as the launcher is not existing
20:51 < SinZ> it'll be fun to watch the modding community react to the launcher
20:52 < Grum> i guess stuff will adapt and soon it wont be used anymore
20:52 < Grum> best fun is, we can break everything for people not using our launcher ... as we can push out changes whenever we please
20:53 < Grum> you'll get the update when you run the launcher for the second time at the worst-worst-case
20:55 < Grum> the best solution for modders is actually sit between the launcher and the start of mc
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20:58 < SinZ> is the launcher going to have modding support in it? or is that the job for the plugin API when it is usable
20:58 < Grum> no support at all
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21:15 < ShaRose> Grum on that note, will you be letting the forge guys know what the MC side changes will be, since they do a relaunch?
21:17 < ShaRose> in other news, once again I try and see if there are any new headsets out that I might want to use to replace my G930
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21:50 < Grum> ShaRose: they already know for some time
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22:05 < SL37> How do I convert the servers RSA key (that was received in ASN1 format) from packet 0xFD back into an RSA key?
22:05 < SL37> I am working in java.
22:06 < SL37> Key rsa_key = KeyFactory.getInstance("RSA").generatePublic(new X509EncodedKeySpec(asn1_key_byte_arr));
22:06 < SL37> That is what I have and doesn't seem to be working.
22:09 < Grum> look at the mc code? :P
22:10 < SinZ> Grum: this isn't #minecraftforge where all answers are look at mc code <3
22:13 < Grum> SL37:
22:13 < Grum>             final EncodedKeySpec keySpec = new X509EncodedKeySpec(keyData);
22:13 < Grum>             final KeyFactory keyFactory = KeyFactory.getInstance(ASYMMETRIC_ALGORITHM);
22:13 < Grum>             return keyFactory.generatePublic(keySpec);
22:13 < SL37> Yeah I was thinking of looking at the MC code. I saw there was a semi nice program to even mostly de-obfuscate. I checked out what I could find online since decompiling will take a little time and I assume the de-obfuscate will also.
22:13 < Grum> public static final String ASYMMETRIC_ALGORITHM = "RSA";
22:14 < Grum> so yeah that should be working
22:14 < Grum> a little time being ~15 mins setup and 1 minute running 
22:14 < Grum> 1 minute for the first one if you have done it before :p
22:14 < edk> deobfuscation isn't perfect, obviously
22:14 < Grum> you must be mangling the bytedata?
22:15 < SL37> No I haven't. Nor am I aware of what the obfuscated code is. So I cant even pull out say class ssn.class or something.
22:15 < Grum> anyhow, i just pasted how we do it in minecraft itself :)
22:15 < Grum> which looks rather similar to what you do
22:15 < SL37> I don't think so. I dumped both an RSA and an enc_aes key.
22:16 < Grum> erm
22:16 < Grum> you do realize i actually have access? and i just literally pasted it from our sourcebase right? :)
22:16 < SL37> From a vanilla client connection to a vanilla server.
22:16 < SL37> Since in my client I am getting my auth working. The server returns an fc packet with zero payload.
22:17 < edk> SL37, are you saying the AES key is transmitted over the network connection?
22:17 < SL37> But then after that I tried and send my client status packet with a 0 encrypted with my aes key and no go.
22:17 < SL37> And yes, it sends the AES key enc by the servers RSA key in packet FC
22:17 < Grum> with your aes key?
22:17 < Grum> you should crypt it with the public key you get from the server (the RSA one)
22:18 < Grum> that way only the server can read your aes key
22:18 < Grum> which was the whole point of that code :)
22:18 < SL37> Yeah so I made an AES key and sent it enc by the servers RSA key.
22:18 < edk> or someone with a quantum computer, which is not a serious consideration at this point in time
22:18 < SL37> Along with an enc of the verify.
22:18 < edk> so i'm not /quite/ sure why i mentioned it
22:19 < SL37> The server then responded with an empty fc packet.
22:19 < SL37> Which should mean that I properly enc-ed everything since it thinks the verify is good.
22:19 < SL37> But then once I try and send my client status packet I get an instant kick.
22:19 < SL37> Sorry not kick, drop.
22:20 < SL37> "lost connection.:
22:20 < SL37> My cipher for encypting my aes packet is "AES/CFB8/NoPadding" so idk what is up.
22:21 < SL37> I am trying to get back a vanilla client's AES key that was enc-ed by an RSA key which I also dumped. That way I can re-create the same cd packet.
22:22 < Grum> you dumped this key on the serverside right?
22:22 < SL37> In the middle. I ran a packet sniffer.
22:22 < Grum> you need the private part of that RSA key
22:22 < Grum> yeah, you cant
22:22 < SL37> Ah I see then.
22:22 < SL37> That would make sense.
22:23 < SL37> Damn ok so then I think I know what may be up.
22:23 < Grum> yeah you are trrying to play man in the middle, which you cant :p
22:23 < Grum> which was the whole reason why I added this in the first place, so you couldn't do that anymore ;)
22:23 < SL37> I forgot I can only enc with the pub key.
22:24 < ShaRose> technically you can decrypt with the public key: stuff that was encrypted by the private key :P
22:24 < ShaRose> it's a pair and works both ways
22:24 < ShaRose> though you should never do that
22:24 < ShaRose> because it'll potentially leak information about the other
22:24 < SL37> Yeah although it was enc-ed by the pub key.
22:25 < SL37> Hmm then I have no idea what is wrong with my send.
22:25 < SL37> I can enc and dec with the same AES key though no?
22:26 < ShaRose> you are trying to do the thing that the protocol was specifically designed to make impossible (or rather really really hard)
22:26 < Grum> yes, that one is symmetric
22:26 < ShaRose> yes
22:26 < ShaRose> ^
22:26 < Grum> but for someone in the middle there is no way of knowing what the aes key is
22:26 < SL37> No I will be running on my modded client.
22:26 < ShaRose> ^
22:26 < SL37> Which will be creating the aes key.
22:27 < SL37> I was only attempting to dump the keys so then I could try and match the traffic with a vanilla MC.
22:27 < SL37> Since that is out the window I have to hack away at my 0xCD response to see what is up.
22:28 < ShaRose> or alternatively modify the connection handling class to copy and route all information to another connection after it decrypts
22:29 < SL37> Yeah I was hoping not to have to hack through a ton of MC code. But I will give this another try since I have a feeling I am doing something stuoid on my part.
22:29 < Grum> you dont really have much of a choice :p
22:29 < SL37> I am going to try sending the CD packet un encrypted to see if it even looks right.
22:29 < SL37> Since somewhere might be throwing my order around.
22:30 < SL37> Or something idk.
22:34 < SL37> So my unencrypted packet should look like (cd 00) yeah?
22:35 < SL37> Two bytes 0 for spawn.
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22:49 < SL37> Hmm I have my AES key which allows me to encrypt fine. But once I try and make a decrypt cipher it tells me there are parameters missing? What am I doing wrong.
22:49 < SL37> KeyGenerator keyGen = KeyGenerator.getInstance("AES");
22:49 < SL37> 			keyGen.init(128);
22:49 < SL37> 			k = keyGen.generateKey();
22:50 < SL37> k is a SecretKey btw.
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22:54 < SL37> Ah apparently I need the IV I think.
22:57 < SinZ> IV is the key
23:02 < SL37> Oh so should I be sending the IV to the server?
23:02 < SL37> Not my AES?
23:06 < SL37> OH I think I get what is up now.
23:07 < SL37> I have been doing this way out of wack ah cool cool.
23:18 < SL37> So what exactly am I sending back during the FC packet?
23:22 < SL37> I should be sending a 16byte AES key that I generate no?
23:27 < SL37> Ah there we go got it working :)
23:37 < dav1d> graz
23:51 < SinZ> hmm, no Query implementation in C#
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23:56 <+ammar2> dav1d: was that awesomeomium problem fixed?
23:56 <+ammar2> with the choppy animations
23:57 < dav1d> ammar2: it will be in awesomium 1.7.5
23:57 < dav1d> but I think I will drop awesomium
23:57 < dav1d> it is really awesome, but too fat
23:57 < dav1d> also I don't like it that it's closed source
23:57 <+ammar2> yeah, its a pretty heavy dependency
23:58  * SinZ has never heard of awesomium
23:58 < dav1d> SinZ: chromium offscreen rendering helper thingy
23:58 < SinZ> ah
23:58 < dav1d> so you render html to a texture
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00:00 <+ammar2> though I've never been able to figure out how to make pretty GUIs with native applictions :P
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00:22 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1958 2 files : Added more parameter constraint checks to MapGeneratorArgs. 
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00:58 < SL37> How do I send the sha1hash to the joinserver.jsp? Should it be in its raw byte form or do I need to be converting it to a string?
00:59 < SL37> For example say the first value of the key is 21, do I send 21 or do I send "21"
00:59 < dav1d> it's a sha1 hash in hex converted to twos compliment first, iirc
01:00 < SL37> Yeah which is fine. It appears that (byte)val automatically places it in twos.
01:00 < SL37> As well as there is no leading zeros.
01:00 < dav1d> yeah java, lol
01:01 < SL37> I am getting back OK from my joinserver request but my server is still popping up Failed to varify username. So I assume this is a problem with my hash.
01:01 < SL37> md.update(server_id.getBytes("US-ASCII"));
01:01 < SL37> 			md.update(shared_secret);
01:01 < SL37> 			md.update(server_rsa_enc);
01:02 < SL37> sha1hash = md.digest();
01:02 < SL37> So I am pretty sure I am generating the hash correctly.
01:04 <+ammar2> well thats slightly misleading
01:04 <+ammar2> why would you call your sha1 hash object md
01:05 < SL37> No I called my message digest md.
01:05 < SL37> And I am just trying to get things working. My code is atrocious.
01:11 < SL37> And my sha1object that is the byte array is called sha1hash.
01:11 < SL37> Although I could have called my digest sha1hash and then just sent sha1hash.digest();
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03:53 < SL37> What does it mean by "sha1.update(ASCII encoding of the server id string from 0xFD)"
03:53 < SL37> I am confused by the ASCII encoding part.
03:54 < SL37> When I grab the server id I read it in as a character in USC-2 format when I get it from 0xFD
03:54 < SL37> Should I be reading it in ascii format?
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04:00 <+ammar2> SL37: what language were you using again?
04:00 < SL37> Java
04:00 < SL37> When creating my hash it doesn't seem to be working. I assume I am reading or placing the server id into my sha1 incorrectly.
04:01 < SL37> My hash isn't matching up with the servers hash it is creating.
04:02 < zutto> I was wondering, is the http://wiki.vg/Protocol_FAQ page still accurate as of 1.5.x?
04:03 < SL37> Weird, jsut worked. But it mostly fails?
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04:10 < SL37> Hmm seems to be working perfectly now. Idk whats up because I didn't change anything.
04:10 < roblabla> It's magic
04:11 < SL37> Yup it is only working some of the time. Weird so I am reading in the server id incorrectly.
04:22 < SL37> In java how should I be reading in the string. I am having a hard time with this apparently?
04:22 < SL37> I am using a DataInputBuffer
04:23 < SL37> When using in.readChar() it is failing to read it in properly I think since my sha1 is screwing up.
04:26 < SL37> Ah damn ok nope it is my hexdigest method
04:31 < zutto> so.. could someone give me hints what i am missing / failing on, i'm building a console client for minecraft in c#/mono.. and i am sending handshake, the 0xCD packet, and i am receiving the player coordinates (0x0D), and i am re-sending them back to the server with stance & y swapped (as instructed in the wiki), and then i am trying to re-send the packet with increased x&y values (x+1 - y+1), and yet the 
04:31 < zutto> client isnt moving in the server at all
04:31 < zutto> I am able to send messages and stuff just fine, and the client appears in server
04:33 < SinZ> anyone know who made the team800 MC classic client?
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04:51 <+md_5> zutto 1 is too large, send more smaller ones
04:51 < zutto> how small are we talking about? 0.1, 0.01?
04:52 < zutto> cause i started with 0.5 ;l
04:52 <+md_5> 0.1
04:52 < zutto> i'll give it a go
04:52 <+md_5> cant recall what my bot does, but I;m leaving now so cant check
04:55 < zutto> no luck with decreasing the amount it moves :/
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05:02 < zutto> strange thing about this whole problem is that if i intentionally set the values to some random numbers, i get kicked with  "[SEVERE] bot was caught trying to crash the server with an invalid position." message in console
05:03 < zutto> so i would assume nothing is wrong with how i send the packet there
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05:29 < SL37> Can anyone tell me what exactly is the point of the http authentication?
05:30 < zutto> to verify that you have 'legit' client?
05:30 < SL37> If a server is in offline mode does it lose any features?
05:30 < zutto> legit as in you have bought minecraft
05:30 < zutto> no, i dont think so
05:31 < SL37> Alright that is what I figured. And I assume a client then cannot have multiple session ids?
05:31 < zutto> no idea about that
05:32 < SL37> Hmm either way I should be alright.
05:36 < zutto> grh, i am really lost 
05:37 < zutto> been trying to figure this out for few hours now
05:41 < SL37> What are you stuck with?
05:42 < zutto> i'm unable to get my bot to move
05:42 < zutto> https://gist.github.com/anonymous/5381335 <- 
05:43 < SL37> What language?
05:43 < zutto> c#/mono
05:44 < SL37> I'll take a look. I haven't gotten that far yet.
05:44 < zutto> kay
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05:53 < zutto> holy shit
05:53 < zutto> i was packing the packet wrong >_>
05:54 < zutto> and yes, i just spent 5 hours figuring that out.. i was 100% sure it was correct -.-
05:57 < SL37> That is aweful. I just made ice-cream and screwed it up :(
05:58 < SL37> I also spent like 2 days getting this damn server authentication working and realized right after I did it that I really didn't need to do it.
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11:32 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/4Maxhw
11:32 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo 120da4a - packet 0x66 (Click Window): `shift` field renamed to `mode`
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12:25 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/bLbIEQ
12:25 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo 28bb695 - README: added npm version badge
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--- Day changed lun. avril 15 2013
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00:23 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1959 2 files : Documentation improvements in PlayerDB class. 
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01:57 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1960 2 files : Documentation improvements in Trie and PlayerDB classes. 
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06:25 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1961 12 files : API change: Replaced boolean parameters of Server's and PlayerDB's player-finding methods with enum flags (PlayerSearchOptions). 
06:26 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo pushed 3 commits to master [+0/-0/±3] http://git.io/xTQ_TQ
06:26 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] stith d0664f3 - Connect to a server's SRV record if they specify one
06:26 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] stith 8825541 - Only look for SRV records if necessary Vanilla client implementation only looks for SRV records when the server port isn't specified, so let's mirror that behavior.
06:26 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo a48d6dc - Merge pull request #55 from stith/patch-1 Connect to a server's SRV record if they specify one
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07:40 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo pushed 4 commits to master [+0/-0/±6] http://git.io/IasY9g
07:40 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo 664c7e3 - print sent and received packet contents in debug mode
07:40 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo 75d9229 - README: added how to enable debugging output
07:40 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo b98e1b2 - README: added links to the mentioned github users
07:40 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo c6b9d2c - Release 0.10.0
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09:14 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1962 4 files : Improved PlayerSearchOptions support and documentation. 
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10:58 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1963 2 files : Fixed handling of PlayerSearchOptions.ReturnSelfIfNoOthersMatched flag in PlayerDB.FindPlayerInfoOrPrintMatches. Holy crap these names are getting verbose. 
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11:24 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1964 4 files : Minor code cleanup in ModerationCommands, FlatMapGenerator, RealisticMapGenerator, and ZipStorer. 
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11:43 < pbunny> what is the difference between default, flat, or largeBiomes level-type ?
11:43 < SinZ> thats vannila world generation
11:44 < pbunny> what does it mean to client?
11:44 < pbunny> they are sent in login request
11:44 < SinZ> flat doesnt render void fog, and not sure what largeBiomes has
11:46 < pbunny> where did you get that info from?
11:48 < SinZ> flatland worlds dont have void fog, I know from experience
11:49 < jast> flat would be pretty pointless with void fog
11:50 < jast> chances are largeBiomes is not actually different on the client side
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11:51 <+Fador> was that parameter already there when the client generated biomes?
11:55 < pbunny> what is the purpose of sending Difficulty to client?
11:58 < jast> informational, most likely
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16:48 < inkoate> In response to my server's login packet, the client is giving the error "Received string length longer than maximum allowed (1792 > 16)"
16:48 < inkoate> Does anyone know what exactly that means? I don't think I'm sending 1792 bytes to the client in the login packet.
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17:02 < inkoate> Is binary.BigEndian.PutUint32 the best way to convert from int to []byte?
17:02 < inkoate> And why is there not a signed version?
17:02 < inkoate> whoops, wrong window, sorry, ignore.
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17:07 < SL37> It states that I can send an 0xCD packet in response to an 0xFD packet to bypass encryption no?
17:07 < SL37> I am trying to do that and the server forces 'lost connection'
17:08 < SL37> Ah figured it out.
17:12 < SL37> I assume enc cannot be bypassed with online-mode:true
17:12 < SL37> Since it needs the enc to create the username verify hash?
17:12 < pbunny> inkoate: check endianness of string length short
17:13 < pbunny> 1792 is 7 if endianess reversed
17:13 < pbunny> which is probably the real length of string you send
17:13 < inkoate> huh
17:14 < pbunny> $ebuf=openssl_decrypt($buf,'aes-128-cfb8',$secret,true);
17:14 < pbunny> this decrypts the data from server wrong
17:14 < pbunny> number of decrypted bytes is ok, but they are not as they are supposed to be
17:14 < pbunny> and $secret is correct
17:14 < pbunny> any suggestions?
17:15 < inkoate> bam, just that easy. Thank you pbunny 
17:16 < pbunny> np
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18:45 < Grum>  <SL37> I assume enc cannot be bypassed with online-mode:true <-- indeed
18:54 < ezdiy> well
18:54 < ezdiy> assuming the launcher uses http://session.mc.net
18:54 < ezdiy> and not https://
18:54 < ezdiy> its matter of simple /etc/hosts on client side? :)
18:56 < inkoate> Does the client expect chunk data in a 16x16x16 three dimensional array of bytes?
18:59 < ezdiy> inkoate: http://wiki.vg/SMP_Map_Format#Data
19:01 < inkoate> Yeah, I've read that.
19:01 < inkoate> It just says "whole byte per block"
19:02 < inkoate> which doesn't say if its multidimensional arrays or just one long array.
19:02 < ezdiy> Blocks are ordered Y, Z, X, i.e. the 'X' coordinate changes fastest.
19:02 < ezdiy> ie each 16x16x16 is multidim in y,z,x order
19:03 < ezdiy> column is then couple of such cubes one after another
19:04 < ezdiy> inkoate: 'whole byte per block' means just that
19:05 < ezdiy> block type array is 4096 in size and so on
19:05 < inkoate> Yeah, I get that. I'm just wondering about the actual data structure.
19:06 < ezdiy> yeah
19:06 < ezdiy> https://github.com/barneygale/smpmap/blob/master/smpmap.py
19:06 < inkoate> I guess I don't know yet how deflate works, so maybe I need to look at that.
19:06 < ezdiy> i used that to get actual idea
19:06 < ezdiy> deflate is just compression, not actually relevant in grand scheme of things :)
19:07 < ezdiy> and yes, the packet format is braindamaged and horribly inefficient, much like anything mc related :)
19:07 < inkoate> lol, yeah
19:09 < inkoate> ok, yeah, so this stores it in a flat array
19:09 < inkoate> not a multidim
19:09 < inkoate> so the 17th item is actually the first item of the second row.
19:09 < inkoate> it seems.
19:10 < ezdiy> offset 16 yeah :)
19:11 < ezdiy> ie y=0,z=1,x=0
19:12 < inkoate> yeah, exactly.
19:12 < inkoate> ok
19:12 < inkoate> thanks for the link. :)
19:13 < pbunny> wtf
19:13 < pbunny> my skin changed to bear on my server
19:13 < pbunny> O.o
19:13 < dav1d> pedobear?
19:14 < pbunny> yes
19:14 < pbunny> looks like him
19:15 < dav1d> then pay for minecraft so you have your own skin?
19:15 < pbunny> http://dump.bitcheese.net/images/ysoceke/2013-04-15_20.05.16.png
19:15 < pbunny> O.o
19:15 < pbunny> how so?
19:15 < pbunny> is today a pedobear day?
19:15 < Flemmard> i dont think one day could even be a pedobear day
19:15 < ezdiy> dav1d: yeah i do that a lot
19:16 < ezdiy> whenever someone loves to impersonate me on cracked server
19:16 < ezdiy> just change skin to black person with swastikas :)
19:18 < pbunny> well this is my server and its running on localhost
19:18 < pbunny> i coded it
19:18 < pbunny> today, skin is of pedobear for some reason
19:18 < pbunny> so it's a client thingie
19:18 < ezdiy> skin is downloaded by client indeed
19:18 < pbunny> even if i don't do minecraft.net auth?
19:18 < ezdiy> especially if you dont do mc.net auth :)
19:19 < ezdiy> you're wearing skin of whomever's nick youre wearing
19:19 < pbunny> O.o
19:19 < dav1d> pbunny: of course it is
19:19 < pbunny> ezdiy: wow!
19:19 < dav1d> buy minecraft then you can set your own skin
19:19 < pbunny> well nick is Player133
19:20 < dav1d> client fetches it from some amazon node
19:20 < ezdiy> http://mcskinsearch.com/skin/Player133
19:20 < ezdiy> well
19:20 < ezdiy> its a pedobear!
19:20 < ezdiy> :)
19:20 < pbunny> O_O
19:20 < pbunny> well.. its only for me, isn't it?
19:20 < pbunny> the Player133 is sent by client to server on connect, but ignored by server
19:21 < pbunny> since login he will use nickname that is registered on server
19:21 < ezdiy> no sorry cant do
19:21 < ezdiy> one has to admit this kind of drm is brilliant
19:22 < ezdiy> pbunny: only workaround is to force all your players to hack /etc/hosts
19:22 < ezdiy> which you want to do anyway for proper auth
19:22 < ezdiy>  /login in chat is just retarded :)
19:22 < pbunny> ezdiy: when client looks up skins of other players?
19:23 < pbunny> when server sends Spawn Named Entity ?
19:23 < ezdiy> yep
19:23 < pbunny> hmm, so technically somebody can register as Player133 on my server and appear to be pedobear to others?
19:23 < dav1d> you see the exact url when the skin servers are down
19:23 < ezdiy> as long theyre using unmoded client, yes
19:23 < roblabla> There's another workaround...
19:23 < ezdiy> roblabla: hmm?
19:23 < roblabla> Make your clients use a mod
19:23 < ezdiy> yeah
19:24 < ezdiy> yep
19:24 < roblabla> Much easier o_O
19:24 < ezdiy> depends
19:24 < pbunny> i don't see any problems of funny skins running on my server
19:24 < pbunny> :)
19:24 < ezdiy>  /etc/hosts is portable across new mc releases
19:24 < roblabla> erm... yeah... but it's a pain to ask your clients to edit
19:24 < dav1d> ezdiy: windows? tell a windows user to edit his host...
19:24 < roblabla> especially since the majority of minecraft players are kids who have no idea what the hosts file is
19:24 < ezdiy> roblabla: just edit via launcher :)
19:25 < roblabla> dav1d: windows has a hosts file too
19:25 < dav1d> somewhere in system32/config shit
19:25 < dav1d> no one will go there
19:25 < ezdiy> ie launcher can stay the same
19:25 < dav1d> roblabla: tell this a windows user...
19:25 < ezdiy> modding minecraft.jar is pita
19:25 < dav1d> grep for the url and replace it in the jar?
19:25 < roblabla> It's not that bad ...
19:25 < ezdiy> dav1d: yeah, that probably too
19:25 < dav1d> roblabla: for you and me, someone who never even touched windows or system32 gets a big security warning
19:26 < dav1d> also
19:26 < dav1d> pay for the fucking game
19:26 < dav1d> 10$
19:26 < ezdiy> or use fully opensource alternatives
19:26 < ezdiy> if youre die hard gpl hippy
19:26 < dav1d> ^ which don't exist
19:26 < ezdiy> well all are inferior indeed
19:26 < roblabla> They do. They just suck.
19:26 < dav1d> well, no client which ehm is playable
19:26 < dav1d> roblabla: thanks :P
19:27 < pbunny> um, guys
19:27 < pbunny> i have no problem with pedobears running around on my server
19:27 < ezdiy> pbunny: what about nazi niggers? :)
19:27 < dav1d> ezdiy: that's what he gets for not paying
19:27 < dav1d> ezdiy: also this would be kinda funny again
19:27 < ezdiy> pbunny: you should probably implement mc.net auth
19:28 < roblabla> mc.net auth ??? And I wish I could send custom skins to the clients
19:28 < ezdiy> haha
19:28 < ezdiy> there it goes, modded client
19:29 < roblabla> for things like NPCs, it would be so useful
19:29 < ezdiy> btw
19:29 < pbunny> ezdiy: i use my own auth on my server
19:29 < pbunny> two reasons
19:29 < ezdiy> the client could be probably modded
19:29 < ezdiy> using http_proxy env variable
19:29 < dav1d> 1. I don't have minecraft
19:29 < ezdiy> no etc hosts
19:29 < pbunny> 1) faster connect 2) reliability, independence from minecraft.net servers
19:30 < roblabla> bwahaha
19:30 < roblabla> faster connect ?
19:30 < pbunny> i.e. if they shut them down, my server remains
19:30 < roblabla> I kinda doubt that
19:30 < ezdiy> pbunny: sure, those are all legit reasons
19:30 < pbunny> roblabla: yeah, one less request from client and from server
19:30 < ezdiy> except
19:30 < ezdiy> everyone bought into mohjang drm scheme
19:30 < ezdiy> so 
19:30 < ezdiy> suck it up
19:30 < roblabla> Do you use your own mojang-like auth ?
19:30 < pbunny> ?
19:30 < pbunny> roblabla: no
19:30 < roblabla> or do you use something like authme ?
19:30 < pbunny> roblabla: its an in-game auth
19:30 < pbunny> like /login user pass
19:30 < roblabla> then let me tell you something : mojang-style is faster
19:30 < ezdiy> ingame sucks donkey balls
19:30 < pbunny> why?
19:30 < roblabla> because I have to login using /login command
19:31 < roblabla> And that's slower than typing my password and remembering it in a convenient window
19:31 < pbunny> hm
19:31 < roblabla> Thus, your statement is officially invalid.
19:31 < Flemmard> and a typo and everyone sees your pass \o/
19:31 < ezdiy> pbunny: you can implement mc auth and just direct clients to _your_ servers
19:31 < roblabla> That too, but IDC so much :P
19:31 < ezdiy> instead of mc.net
19:31 < roblabla> but ezdiy that requires a modded launcher
19:31 < ezdiy> depends
19:32 < ezdiy> might be as simple as
19:32 < roblabla> And writing your own authentication server software implementing mojang's DRM
19:32 < ezdiy> set http_proxy=http://your.server
19:32 < ezdiy> minecraft.bat
19:32 < pbunny> ezdiy: but that will require modding
19:32 < pbunny> etc
19:32 < roblabla> You still have to write your own auth server software implementing mojang's DRM
19:32 < ezdiy> pbunny: no
19:32 < ezdiy> pbunny: you just tell java to use proxy
19:32 < roblabla> And that's a PITA XD
19:32 < ezdiy> thats all
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19:32 < pbunny> ezdiy: i may implement both auth schemes in the future
19:32 -!- Kosmos [~Kosmos@80-219-252-7.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Client Quit]
19:32 < pbunny> so regular users can use modded client, and new ones can connect using vanila
19:33 < pbunny> vanilla *
19:33 < ezdiy> yeah
19:33 < ezdiy> that probably works best
19:36 < dav1d> how was the python server called?
19:36 < dav1d> superjoe: ^ you should know that :P
19:37 < pbunny> dav1d: iirc it was called a shit
19:37 < dav1d> pbunny: what, funny today?
19:37 < pbunny> i'm totally serious
19:38 < pbunny> python is a language developed by people who ban on #python for asking "so how do i compile python to /usr/lib64 ?" type of questions
19:38 < dav1d> aha
19:38 < pbunny> and i had to make a 4Kb patch to override hardcoded /usr/lib paths everywhere
19:39 < dav1d> so you're banned on python?
19:39 < pbunny> to install it multilib
19:39 < dav1d> pbunny: LOL
19:39 < dav1d> sorry but you are dumb
19:39 < dav1d> make
19:39 < pbunny> dav1d: by default, python keeps looking into /usr/lib/python-2.7/* and you can't change it with --with-libdir=/usr/lib64
19:39 < dav1d> make install
19:39 < dav1d> with correct environment paths
19:39 < dav1d> or if it's the 2nd install, make altinstall
19:39 < pbunny> dav1d: /usr/lib is hardwired into its source
19:40 < dav1d> no it isn't lol
19:40 < pbunny> yes it is.
19:40 < pbunny> lemme check the lines
19:40 < dav1d> I can install python to ~/home/pbunny/is/dumb
19:40 < dav1d> what I actually did
19:40 < dav1d> for a virtualenv
19:41 < pbunny> dav1d: http://dump.bitcheese.net/files/idivazu/Python-2.7.3-multilib-1.patch
19:42 < dav1d> actually it's ./configure 
19:42 < dav1d> my bad
19:42 < pbunny> and http://dump.bitcheese.net/texts/oxebilu/Plaintext
19:42 < dav1d> you used ./configure before right?
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19:43 < dav1d> and you know what {base} is?
19:43 < pbunny> dav1d: yeah.
19:43 < dav1d> that base can be an arbitraty path?
19:43 < pbunny> as i stated multiple times, --with-libdir=/usr/lib64 makes python install libraries into /usr/lib64
19:43 < pbunny> but he looks for his modules inside /usr/lib/python-*
19:43 < pbunny> see the patches i linked to
19:43 < pbunny> for relevant files/lines
19:43 < dav1d> holy fuck
19:44 < dav1d> I think the reason you were banned on #python was not the question but your ignorance
19:44 < pbunny> have you read the patches i linked?
19:44 < dav1d> pbunny: lol
19:45 < dav1d> ./configure --libexecdir=/usr/lib64
19:45 < dav1d> found in two minutes
19:45 < zutto> do you realize pbunny what you are asking?
19:45 < zutto> its not difficult to change the directory make compiles the files
19:45 < pbunny> zutto: right
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19:45 < pbunny> zutto: but it is difficult to make python not look for modules in /usr/lib/python-*
19:45 < pbunny> this /usr/lib is hardcoded in many of places
19:45 < dav1d> pbunny: trololo, ./configure --libdir=/usr/lib64 --libexecdir=/usr/lib64
19:46 < pbunny> zutto: http://dump.bitcheese.net/texts/oxebilu/Plaintext
19:46 < pbunny> just see
19:46 < pbunny> this patch changes these hardwired locations to /usr/lib64
19:46 < dav1d> and change the patchfile
19:46 < dav1d> sed -i -e 's#$(prefix)/lib#$(prefix)/lib64#' Makefile
19:46 < pbunny> dav1d: ./configure has no influence on lines like self.library_dirs.append(os.path.join(sys.prefix, "lib", in python modules
19:46 < pbunny> please try to understand.
19:46 < pbunny> if not, i'm done with you
19:47 < dav1d> pbunny: funny
19:47 < dav1d> because the archlinux pkgbuild works
19:47 < dav1d> and it doesn't apply any patch
19:47 < dav1d> https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/li/lib32-python2/PKGBUILD
19:47 < dav1d> uups
19:47 < pbunny> well i'm talking about vanilla python source tarball
19:47 < dav1d> LOL
19:47 < dav1d> srsly, this is getting funnier and funnier
19:48 < pbunny> and you know what? this PKGBUILD is not for multi-lib system
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19:48 < pbunny> ( in case you understand that term at all )
19:49 < zutto> pbunny might be actually right in this
19:49 < dav1d> wat?
19:49 < zutto> if theres no x64 version of the sauce
19:49 < dav1d> pbunny: this is to install a 32 bit version for a 64bit system
19:49 < pbunny> zutto: lines like "'stdlib': '{base}/lib/python{py_version_short}'," are totally uninfluenced by configure
19:49 < pbunny> that's what he fails to understand
19:49 -!- pi1 is now known as roblabla
19:50 < dav1d> ok I have better things todo, even if it's just scratching my nose
19:50 < pbunny> dav1d: right. now go and google about "multilib systems"
19:50 < roblabla> what's going on ?
19:50 < pbunny> and surprisingly, amongst hundreds of software packages i built, python is the only one that have problems like that
19:50 < inkoate> pbunny doesn't like python, and dav1d is 13 years old.
19:50 < dav1d> we laughed about you, thanks, made our day, again
19:51 < inkoate> that's about it, roblabla 
19:51 < pbunny> :)
19:51 < roblabla> riiight
19:51 < roblabla> Python is an awesome language. But nodejs is better
19:51 < dav1d> ^ lol
19:51 < roblabla> that's all I can say :)
19:51 < Calinou> ^ lol
19:51 < dav1d> ^ so true
19:52 < zutto> nodejs was intresting
19:52 < zutto> until i read the word javascript
19:52 < roblabla> That's what makes it even more awesome
19:53 < roblabla> javascript is a cool language, despite it's many flaws.
19:53 < zutto> gotta give them points for using v8
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19:53 < dav1d> "javascript is a cool language, despite it's many flaws."
19:53 < dav1d> :(
19:53 < dav1d> javascript - javascript = {}
19:53 < roblabla> Whenever I want to fiddle with the minecraft protocol, I use superjoe's node-minecraft-protocol library, allows me to prototype and test stuff superfast
19:54 < roblabla> and guess what ? It's javascript :D
19:54 < zutto> when i tried nodejs, i liked the non blocking io shit in it, but it got very annoying very fast due to the bugs nodejs had
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19:54 < roblabla> AND ! It's super-easy to read and understand
19:54 < dav1d> javascripts approach: fix the language with libraries
19:54 < roblabla> zutto: what version ?
19:54 < zutto> some early version, i could assume most of them are fixed
19:54 < roblabla> With 0.8, it's very stable and pretty bug-free
19:54 < roblabla> that's the version I use
19:54 < zutto> they were all file IO related bugs
19:54 < roblabla> anyhow g2g
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19:55 < ezdiy> node is awesome
19:55 < ezdiy> till you get stuck at odd things like, um
19:56 < ezdiy> arrays with 2 billion items in it, ummm, apparently cant do
19:56 < ezdiy> (anything memory intenstive seems to be broken actually)
19:56 < pbunny> PHP and C are the only languages needed
19:56 < pbunny> PHP helps to code something fast and dirty
19:57 < pbunny> C allows for perfect elegance and performance
19:57 < zutto> i'm very much enjoying my c#/mono
19:57 < pbunny> so, i.e. for testing bot PHP is perfect
19:57 < pbunny> or for coding $ploits
19:57 < zutto> :| no
19:57 < zutto> php has no multithreading, and shitloads of bugs
19:57 < zutto> its no fun
19:58 < pbunny> yeah, it's perfect for quick and dirty work
19:58 < zutto> php is useful for small things
19:58 < pbunny> yes
19:58 < zutto> but bots? no
19:58 < pbunny> and for large things you use C
19:58 < pbunny> zutto: "testing bot" != "bot"
19:58 < zutto> testing bot is too much of a bot
19:58 < pbunny> zutto: it doesn't have to be elegant
19:59 < pbunny> you use them to test, then discard
19:59 < pbunny> like condom
19:59 < dav1d> as if C was elegant
20:00 < pbunny> totally
20:00 < pbunny> well it depends on coder
20:00 < dexter0> dav1d: it's even more elegant when you make everything a macro.
20:01 < dav1d> dexter0: HAHA
20:01 < dav1d> pbunny: then we have totally different definitions of elegance
20:01 < pbunny> dexter0: elegancy != simplicity
20:01 < pbunny> dav1d: i'm glad we have
20:02 < dav1d> xD, you don't know my defintion
20:02 < ezdiy> fast and dirty
20:02 < ezdiy> well
20:02 < ezdiy> perhaps if you dont know python or ruby
20:02 < ezdiy> :)
20:02 < ezdiy> or perl
20:02 < pbunny> ezdiy: PHP is more flexible than any of them
20:02 < ezdiy> doubt so
20:02 < zutto> no, it isnt
20:02 < pbunny> i.e. you can do eval("$var{$something++}"); etc
20:02 < ezdiy> pbunny: it all comes down to libraries
20:03 < ezdiy> language features dont matter at all
20:03 < ezdiy> for example
20:03 < ezdiy> ip range manipulation in php
20:03 < ezdiy> i think its almost impossible to this day
20:03 < ezdiy> while perl/python is just import netaddr :)
20:03 < pbunny> ezdiy: in php you don't even need that
20:03 < pbunny> you just call connect()
20:03 < ezdiy> blah
20:04 < ezdiy> pbunny: connect is sockets, nothing to do with ip/range manipulation :)
20:04 < ezdiy> good luck writing ipcalc in php
20:04 < eddyb> "PHP"
20:05 < ezdiy> php has one very strong point though
20:05 < ezdiy> its almost universally understood by everyone
20:05 < pbunny> ezdiy: ipcalc is not something that should be coded "fast and dirty"
20:05 < ezdiy> webdesigners, office workers, everyone
20:05 < pbunny> you got out of the scope
20:05 < ezdiy> pbunny: yes it is
20:05 < ezdiy> make 
20:05 < ezdiy> believe
20:05 < ezdiy> you're a network sysadmin
20:05 < ezdiy> and you have this huge file with various ips and prefixes in it
20:05 < eddyb> the language that is so bad I would consider strapping webkit+v8 to apache to run client-side JS on the server
20:05 < eddyb> because that's faster
20:05 < ezdiy> and you need to process it quick and dirty :)
20:06 < eddyb> aaand saner
20:06 < pbunny> i would probably get some tools for that
20:06 < ezdiy> pbunny: but youre right that for simple things like string manipulation php is ok
20:06 < ezdiy> as i said
20:06 < ezdiy> universally understood even by janitors
20:07 < ezdiy> is huge plus in terms of maintainability
20:07 < ezdiy> and cheap labour :)
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20:07 < pbunny> well i consider ip range manipulation not from "quick and dirty" scope :)
20:07 < ezdiy> hehe
20:07 < ezdiy> yeah
20:07 < ezdiy> php cant do it
20:07 < shoghicp> hi
20:07 < shoghicp> xD xD xD
20:07 < pbunny> O.O
20:07 < ezdiy> pbunny: in every sane language its simple :)
20:07 < shoghicp> ezdiy: that was timed?
20:07 < pbunny> shoghicp: i just cloned your php client today
20:07 < pbunny> nice coinscidence
20:07 < ezdiy> shoghicp: prety much
20:07 < shoghicp> hmm
20:07 < shoghicp> It is biased on 1.5
20:07 < ezdiy> shoghicp: just bashing how horrible php is
20:08 < ezdiy> :)))
20:08 < shoghicp> I confrim that
20:08 < shoghicp> confirm*
20:08 < shoghicp> now, test the server ;)
20:08 < ezdiy> (but has a wider audience than java, so writing a mc client in it is smart move)
20:10 < shoghicp> Do you remember PocketMine-MP?
20:12 < ezdiy> shoghicp: it would be fun if it supported hphpc
20:12 < shoghicp> I use weird PHP things
20:12 < ezdiy> (native binary compiler for php)
20:12 < ezdiy> well
20:12 < ezdiy> as long there are no evals()
20:12 < shoghicp> And it breaks even PHP itself
20:12 < shoghicp> ezdiy: the tick directive
20:13 < shoghicp> that breaks everything
20:13 < shoghicp> even PHP itself
20:13 < shoghicp> (if used carelessly)
20:13 < ezdiy> shoghicp: still the code quality is decent
20:13 < ezdiy> cant quite believe you stick with php :/
20:15 < shoghicp> People is asking for moving the MCPE server to Java ;)
20:15 < ezdiy> eew
20:15 < ezdiy> why not javascript?
20:15 < ezdiy> this could be translated to v8 almost 1:1 :)
20:15 < shoghicp> node.js ;)
20:15 < ezdiy> yep
20:15 < shoghicp> There is a MCPE proxy for node.js
20:15 < ezdiy> still almost as crappy as php
20:15 < ezdiy> but a bit faster
20:16 < shoghicp> ezdiy: check https://github.com/shoghicp/PocketMine-MP
20:16 < eddyb> ezdiy: JS is not 1:1 with PHP
20:16 < eddyb> ezdiy: there were so many stupid things in PHP that you can easily get over with in JS
20:16 < ezdiy> eddyb: depends on the php coding standards you're translating from
20:16 < shoghicp> And the reverse ;)
20:16 < ezdiy> eddyb: which seem to be high in https://github.com/shoghicp/PocketMine-MP
20:16 < eddyb> shoghicp: huh?
20:17 < ezdiy> js -> php is almost impossible indeed :)
20:17 < shoghicp> xD http://php.net/manual/en/book.v8js.php
20:17 < ezdiy> lol
20:17 < eddyb> functions can be passed around as values, + is used for concatenation
20:18 < eddyb> all the function expressions that you just can't do in PHP
20:18 < ezdiy> eddyb: sure
20:18 < eddyb> shoghicp: lol
20:18 < ezdiy> we all know js is much more awesome than php in syntactic details
20:18 < shoghicp> eddyb: You can do that on PHP now (most of it) ;)
20:18 < ezdiy> which is why you can do php->js
20:18 < ezdiy> but cant do the opposite
20:18 < ezdiy> exactly for those reasons
20:18 < ezdiy> because you lose information :)
20:18 < ezdiy> when concat operator becomes addition
20:19 -!- pib1964 [~pib1964@your.friendly.media.team.coder.ark-cr.info] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:19 < ezdiy> shoghicp: well, i'll keep an eye on your github account
20:19 -!- roblabla|Away is now known as roblabla
20:19 < shoghicp> :)
20:19 < ezdiy> once youre done with 1.5 server
20:20 < ezdiy> i'll try some translating attempts
20:20 < shoghicp> That link is a MCPE server
20:20 < ezdiy> luajit2 would be most awesome
20:20 < roblabla> PHP is a horrible language.
20:20 < ezdiy> shoghicp: i know
20:20 < shoghicp> In fact, the only one available
20:20 < ezdiy> never player mcpe
20:20 < ezdiy> dunno what its like
20:21 < ezdiy> s/player/played/
20:21 < shoghicp> Minecraft Beta - Redstone - Nether - Trains - Pistons
20:21 < shoghicp> - Infinite worlds
20:21 < shoghicp> - => minus sign
20:21 < ezdiy> hmm
20:21 < ezdiy> not bad
20:22 < ezdiy> all the useless things trimmed basically
20:22 < ezdiy> shoghicp: i cant see any decent worldgen though :(
20:22 < shoghicp> But the protocol is biased xD
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20:22 < ezdiy> oh, object directory missed that
20:22 < shoghicp> the server can't set a player's inventory slot
20:23 < ezdiy> just trees?
20:23 < shoghicp> I'm not generating worlds yet
20:23 < shoghicp> Only plain
20:23 < ezdiy> ah
20:23 < shoghicp> I'm rewriting that part
20:23 < ezdiy> thats always the toughest part :(
20:23 < shoghicp> But it can import MCPE worlds ;)
20:23 < shoghicp> Todo: https://github.com/shoghicp/PocketMine-MP/issues/98
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20:24 < ezdiy> how do you debug such a huge beast btw?
20:24 < shoghicp> everything uses events that can be modified
20:24  * ezdiy is fairly ignorant on availability of single-stepping ides for PHP
20:24 < shoghicp> so I can hook into anything
20:24 < ezdiy> oh
20:25 < roblabla> shoghicp: you writing an MCPE server in PHP ?
20:25 < shoghicp> It's already done ;)
20:25 < shoghicp> I'm implementing parts of the survival mode
20:25 < roblabla> nice...
20:25 < ezdiy> roblabla: and its really as hardcore as it sounds
20:25 < shoghicp> and improving it xD
20:25 < roblabla> but I have a stupid question : how can clients connect ?_?
20:25 < shoghicp> directly
20:25 < shoghicp> you can run it on your computer
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20:26 < roblabla> Right, so we won't be seeing huge 30-players MCPE servers anytime soon lol
20:26 < shoghicp> or, you can set up a proxy on your computer to forward to an online server
20:26 < shoghicp> roblabla: there are
20:26 < roblabla> (yes, huge 30 players. I make sense)
20:26 < shoghicp> there are MCPE servers of 60 players ;)
20:26 < shoghicp> Hunger Games servers
20:26 < roblabla> rly ? But... isn't the space supersmall ?
20:26 < roblabla> or can your server expand the boundaries
20:26 < shoghicp> they made a custom plugin for this
20:27 < shoghicp> roblabla: It'll be able
20:27 < shoghicp> but they used a better idea
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20:27 < shoghicp> http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1758984-lbsg-lifeboat-survival-games-fully-automatic-new-classes-android-and-ios-no-lag-247-whitelist-and-no-whitelist-ip-506213299/
20:27 < shoghicp> Usually each round has about 40 players
20:28 < shoghicp> It's a different concept
20:28 < roblabla> I'll probably attempt to translate your server to nodejs when I have some time to waste ^^
20:28 < ezdiy> roblabla: i think even luajit might work
20:28 < roblabla> I don't know lua
20:28 < roblabla> and before you tell me lua is similar to javascript, I've been told.
20:28 < ezdiy> yeah, it sucks for actual dev
20:28 < ezdiy> but its near-c performance when jitted
20:29 < shoghicp> Also, I use a custom-made PHP build
20:29 < shoghicp> including some extensions
20:29 < shoghicp> Threading for PHP ;)
20:29 < roblabla> I used lua to bundle scripting in a game I made in the past, so I know the "lua syntax"
20:29 < shoghicp> (even more weirdness!)
20:29 < roblabla> but as far as libraries goes.... I'm a lua illiterate
20:30 < ezdiy> shoghicp: actually thats fine
20:30 < ezdiy> as long you do your own php build
20:30 < ezdiy> and pick thread safe exts
20:30 < ezdiy> not that much exts would be thread safe :)
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20:30 < shoghicp> Using: PHP, zlib, curl and pthreads
20:30 < ezdiy> sql?
20:30 < shoghicp> and SQLite3
20:30 < ezdiy> ah
20:30 < ezdiy> sqlite3
20:30 < ezdiy> yeah
20:30 < ezdiy> that should all be fine
20:31 < shoghicp> the compile script: https://github.com/shoghicp/PocketMine-MP/blob/master/compile_php.sh
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20:31 < shoghicp> everything is statically linked
20:31 < ezdiy> i see
20:31 < ezdiy> "dont even bother, linux users, lol"
20:32 < superjoe> dav1d, what's that? I missed something
20:32 < shoghicp> also, my code likes to find bugs xD
20:32 < shoghicp> found some nasty PHP bugs
20:33 < ezdiy> those are not bugs
20:33 < ezdiy> but features
20:33 < ezdiy> for example
20:33 < shoghicp> like lines that aren't executed, or executed twice randomly
20:33 < ezdiy> when "0e12345" == 0
20:33 < ezdiy> thats normal
20:33 < ezdiy> :)
20:33 < ezdiy> shoghicp: um
20:33 < shoghicp> ("0e12345" === 0) === false
20:33 < ezdiy> sounds like threading bugs
20:33 < shoghicp> Always use === instead of ==
20:34 < superjoe> I use == when comparing to null
20:34 < shoghicp> ezdiy: that was before adding pthreads
20:34 < ezdiy> shoghicp: i think type coercion happens in different places too
20:34 < ezdiy> not just ==
20:34 < shoghicp> superjoe: search for " == " in my code, you'll find it only in specific cases
20:34 < ezdiy> array indexes perhaps?
20:34 < ezdiy> :)
20:34 < shoghicp> >= and <=
20:35 < superjoe> shoghicp, are you guys talking about php or js?
20:35 < shoghicp> php
20:35 < roblabla> they're talking bout php
20:35 < ezdiy> 		$this->map[$X][$Z][0][$index]{$y} = chr($block);
20:35 < ezdiy> this is possibly the single inefficient part about that code
20:36 < roblabla> I can't even read that...
20:36 < ezdiy> php arrays are horribly implemented underneath
20:36 < ezdiy> but i assume mcpe are small maps so it does not matter
20:37 < shoghicp> ezdiy: That is going to be rewritten ;)
20:37 < roblabla> much smaller than minecraft Desktop :P
20:37 < shoghicp> 256x128x256
20:37 < ezdiy> shoghicp: i dont know how to do it better though
20:37 < ezdiy> shoghicp: maybe some ext which supports actual native arrays?
20:38 < ezdiy> 256x128x256 is ok
20:38 < ezdiy> even with php overhead
20:38 < ezdiy> which is like 50 bytes per cell
20:38 < shoghicp> that array is not an array of blocks
20:38 < shoghicp> but of chunks ;)
20:38 < ezdiy> huh
20:39 < ezdiy> setBlock ?
20:39 < shoghicp> ?
20:39 < ezdiy> well
20:40 < ezdiy> its map of chunks
20:40 < shoghicp> btw, https://github.com/search?p=1&q=%3D%3D+repo%3Ashoghicp%2FPocketMine-MP&ref=searchresults&type=Code
20:40 < ezdiy> which in turn contains map of blocks
20:40 < ezdiy> $this->map[$X][$Z][0][$index]{$y} = chr($block);
20:40 < ezdiy> thats how i interpret it anyways
20:41 < shoghicp> ezdiy: columns of blocks
20:41 < ezdiy> it does not really matter though
20:41 < shoghicp> at least, PHP numerical arrays are faster
20:41 < ezdiy> i think those are still stored as string :(
20:41 < ezdiy> the keys of such arrays
20:42 < shoghicp> no ;)
20:42 < ezdiy> oh, neat
20:42 < shoghicp> "3" !== 3
20:42 < roblabla> true
20:42 < roblabla> :)
20:42 < shoghicp> "3" == 3
20:42 < ezdiy> so array[0] != array["0"] anymore?
20:42 < ezdiy> i mean array[0] == array["0"] anymore?
20:42 < shoghicp> if the array has the same value...
20:42 < ezdiy> no
20:43 < ezdiy> the indexes used to be strings
20:43 < ezdiy> at least in php 5.1 last time i checked
20:43 < ezdiy> could have changed since then
20:43 < shoghicp> doing a fast check
20:43 < shoghicp> oh oh xD
20:43 < shoghicp> we're at PHP 5.5!
20:44 < ezdiy> hmm
20:44 < ezdiy> seems still as strings
20:45 < shoghicp> but the key is then saved as an integer lol xD
20:45 < shoghicp> $a = array(); $a[] = 1; $a["0"] = 2; var_dump($a); var_dump(key($a));
20:46 < shoghicp> output
20:46 < shoghicp> array(1) {  [0] =>  int(2) }  int(0)
20:46 < shoghicp> so the key is saved as a number there...
20:46 < shoghicp> nah, it's PHP, so nvm
20:47 < ezdiy> yeah
20:47 < ezdiy> it seems to double check now
20:47 < ezdiy> foreach (array(1) as $key => $value) if ($key === 0) echo "fuck php";
20:47 < ezdiy> this used to say fuck php
20:47 < ezdiy> when == "0"
20:47 < ezdiy> actually there wasnt even === back then
20:47 < ezdiy> there wasn distinction between int and string at all iirc :)
20:47 < shoghicp> lol xD
20:48 < shoghicp> emm
20:48 < shoghicp> that is right
20:48 < shoghicp> array(1) === array(0 => 1)
20:48 < ezdiy> yep
20:48 < shoghicp> foreach (array(1) as $key => $value) if ($key === 0) echo "fuck php";
20:49 < shoghicp> oops
20:49 < shoghicp> foreach (array(1 =>1) as $key => $value) if ($key === 0) echo "fuck php";
20:49 < shoghicp> you mean that?
20:49 < shoghicp> because at leas, from my point of view, it is right :S
20:50 < ezdiy> nah
20:50 < ezdiy> it behaves as expected now
20:50 < ezdiy> but
20:50 < ezdiy> i think in doing so
20:50 < ezdiy> it broke ihis
20:50 < ezdiy> foreach (array("1" => 1) as $key => $value) if ($key === "1") echo "ok php";
20:51 < ezdiy> "1" is now treated as int
20:51 < ezdiy> so i assume they "fixed" it
20:51 < jast> gotta love PHP
20:51 < ezdiy> just by forcing int in number like array indices lol :)
20:51 < shoghicp> xD xD
20:51 < shoghicp> at least, "1a" !== "1"
20:52 < ezdiy> yup
20:52 < ezdiy> no crazy conversion either
20:53 < ezdiy> 1e0000 is just string
20:53 < ezdiy> only when its [0-9] string then god help us all :)
20:53 < shoghicp> yeah xD
20:55 < ezdiy> (to be fair i think lua and js did such retarded auto type coercions at some point as well)
20:56 < shoghicp> But I can't control even my own server in PHP
20:56 < shoghicp> when players are Kicked
20:57 < shoghicp> their objects are closed, destructed, nulled and then unsetted from the array that calls them. Even I lock themselves from running anything
20:57 < shoghicp> But some plugin devs. keep complaining about ghost players that continue to being executed somewhere
20:57 < shoghicp> even when no direct reference is pointing at tham
20:58 < ezdiy> yeah
20:58 < ezdiy> php is kinda leaky like that
20:58 < ezdiy> shoghicp: just save game world state
20:58 < ezdiy> and restart once a while
20:58 < ezdiy> pe protocol is udp based
20:58 < ezdiy> so no problem here, right?
20:59 < shoghicp> I've fixed these leaky things ;)
20:59 < shoghicp> the memori consumption for ~10 players is about 50MB
20:59 < shoghicp> including the map and server itself
20:59 < ezdiy> its not about player count
20:59 < ezdiy> but uptime
20:59 < ezdiy> ie how much memory after week running
20:59 < shoghicp> uptime? infinite, at least
20:59 < ezdiy> when players get in/out
20:59 < shoghicp> no leaks ;)
20:59 < shoghicp> tested
21:00 < shoghicp> I free every object that has any kind of reference
21:01 < shoghicp> If not, like temp. objects, PHP freeds them in 20 seconds or so
21:01 < shoghicp> yay Java http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/topics/security/javacpuapr2013-1928497.html
21:01 < shoghicp> "This Critical Patch Update contains 42 new security fixes for Oracle Java SE.  39 of these vulnerabilities may be remotely exploitable "
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21:06 < shoghicp> from #phpc: r1chard: cythrawll, a lot of the code in PHP scares me this is why I wrap most of the APIs I use.
21:06 < shoghicp> Oh, PocketMine-MP has passed the 200 issues mark xD
21:07 < shoghicp> I'll be back here another day
21:07 < shoghicp> see you!
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21:24 < superjoe> I gave 2 weeks notice on friday
21:24 < superjoe> so excited :D
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00:26 < TkTech> superjoe: Where you off to?
00:27 < superjoe> nowhere yet. Just going to enjoy a few months of freetime
00:29 < TkTech> Ah, also enjoyable.
00:30 < superjoe> I've been tinkering with the idea of trying to do a video game kickstarter
00:37 < TkTech> superjoe: Have you made a commercial (or free) game in the past?
00:37 < superjoe> TkTech, yes but not a big one. I got 1st place in pyweek one year: http://www.pyweek.org/e/superjoe/
00:40 < TkTech> superjoe: Gotta be honest here, that's nowhere near enough to justify a kickstarter…you need to show a good, pre-existing foundation, extensive research, you should already have deals with a few designers, plenty of mockups and usually a prototype
00:41 < TkTech> Typically games on kickstarter only work out if they're well known for a previous game and/or have a very impressive demo, existing storyline, etc...
00:41 < TkTech> Oddly a lot easier to do a kickstarter for EE projects...
00:41 < superjoe> TkTech, we do plan to have a prototype and impressive demo ready before launching a campaign
00:42 < superjoe> also I am teaming up with Superpowerless who has a decent sized audience from his musical stuff
00:42 < superjoe> that being said I do appreciate the honest feedback
00:42 < TkTech> Ah, most excellent. I thought you were going to try one in a month or something, not down the road.
00:48 < TkTech> -- Note: Anyone here using Linode? Ever used Linode? Your unencrypted CC details and personal details are now on the loose. --
00:48 < superjoe> yeah, me. >.<
00:48 < TkTech> Call your bank and get and cards used in the past (even if they've been removed) revoked.
00:49 < TkTech> What a shitty day.
00:49 < superjoe> yeah. I'm so sad that people still kill each other :(
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00:50 < TkTech> The Boston bombs are looking pretty iffy right now, there were dozens of bombs in Afghanistan set off today as well.
00:50 < TkTech> Shortly before or following
00:51 < superjoe> what do you mean by "iffy"?
00:51 < TkTech> Co-ordinated by a malicious group instead of random crazy #69.
00:51 <+ammar2> probably coincidental, doesn't make much sense to have a synchronized bombing all the way around the world
00:54 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: where did you get that Linode news from btw?
00:55 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: The most up-to-date conversation is currently -> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5552756
00:58 < superjoe> TkTech, did linode officially acknowledge it yet?
00:58 < superjoe> last I checked they said there was no confirmed CC compromise
01:00 < TkTech> superjoe: Linode hasn't said a peep outside of their blog post (http://blog.linode.com/2013/04/12/security-notice-linode-manager-password-reset/).
01:00 < superjoe> good to know
01:00 < superjoe> gotta run, ta ta for now
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01:44 <+Scootabyte> TkTech, know any good alternative to Linode? :P
01:48 < TkTech> Scootabyte: AWS has always been solid if you use it right.
01:48 < TkTech> (And even when you don't, I have a non-redundant micro that has an uptime of over 1 ½ years)
01:48 <+ammar2> wasn't aws a bit expensive in terms of bandwith
01:49 <+ammar2> been running an irc bnc on a free ec2 instance for a year, and now for another 8 months or so :3
01:51 <+Scootabyte> What kind of an interface does AWS provide? Does it appear as a server (like Linode), where I have total control over installation/configuration of software
01:51 <+Scootabyte> or is it more "managed" kind of a server, where I have to do everything through control panels
01:51 < TkTech> Scootabyte: AWS is infinitely more flexible than Linode. There is no such thing as a managed AWS instance (outside of 3rd parties)
01:52 < TkTech> Scootabyte: They're pretty much VPSs, to you the user.
01:52 <+Scootabyte> Ah ok. So I'll still be able to use lighttpd and svnd and all that crap?
01:52 <+Scootabyte> Perhaps I will switch.
01:52 < TkTech> Whatever the *BLEEP* you wanted.
01:53 <+Scootabyte> heh
01:53 < TkTech> Browsed more than a dozen websites today? Odds are you were on AWS.
01:54 < TkTech> https://aws.amazon.com/amis/ <- These are the base AMIs, many thousands more pre-built for specific purposes.
01:54 <+Scootabyte> Well yeah, I know it is a widely-used system, I just had no idea what kind of control it provides
01:54 < TkTech> They're VPS, the only controls it provides is a very comprehensive admin panel that's designed to manage resources (instances, load balances, DNS, etc…) and a very comprehensive API.
01:55 < TkTech> ammar2: It can be very expensive for bandwith depending on what you're doing. You shouldn't be hosting media off an EC2 instance for example, you should be using S3.
01:55 < TkTech> ammar2: But for a blog, website, game server, torrent box, whatever - it doesn't matter.
01:56 <+Scootabyte> (well, for a torrent box, bandwidth might matter. Depends on how ambitious you get :P)
01:56 <+Scootabyte> Alright, I'll give AWS a try
01:57 < TkTech> Scootabyte: If this is your first time you won't pay anything for the next year, realistically.
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01:57 <+Scootabyte> Well, I am hosting about 8 random sites, most of them low-bandwidth
01:57 <+ammar2> yeah, I was paying like 40 cents or so, that just because of io requests
01:58 <+Scootabyte> And I started using CloudFlare on everything this year, so that's lowered my already-low bandwidth :P
01:58 < TkTech> My base monthly is $90 something, but I do the majority of my work on spot instances brought up as-needed and torn down immediately after.
01:58 <+ammar2> yeah, cloudflare is pretty handy
01:59 < TkTech> It's fun bringing up a thousand cores just to save an hour or two.
01:59 <+Scootabyte> $90/month? That sounds steep
01:59 <+Scootabyte> Compared to Linode
01:59 <+Scootabyte> Is that common?
02:00 < TkTech> That isn't for one server. I work in Big Data™.
02:00 < TkTech> I use AWS extensively for work.
02:00 < TkTech> Linode doesn't even offer servers the size I use daily.
02:01 <+Scootabyte> Aha, I just got a reply from Linode tech support
02:01 <+Scootabyte> > Thank you for contacting us. We are working on putting together another statement and posting it on our blog. At this time we have no evidence to suggest that customers' entire credit card numbers have been compromised. We will be releasing any additional information that becomes available on our blog at http://blog.linode.com
02:02 < TkTech> "No evidence" is a safety word to keep them from getting sued.
02:02 <+Scootabyte> Yep heh. That reply does not inspire confidence
02:02 <+Scootabyte> I'll be right back;
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02:17 < TkTech> Scootabyte: Lies, that took forever.
02:17 < TkTech> Scootabyte: Anyways, a micro (which you get for free for a year) runs about $14.
02:18 < TkTech> Scootabyte: It's more than enough for a blog/personal site, IRC bouncer for several users, bla bla.
02:18 <+Scootabyte> excellent
02:18 <+Scootabyte> Alright I got a znc set up, I'll rejoin one last time
02:18 <+Scootabyte> And just to piss you off -- new nick!
02:18 <+Scootabyte> :P
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02:23 <+Matvei> There we go. No more join/part spam from me.
02:24 <+Matvei> I've been waiting for this nick to drop for better part of a year; at last it happened :p
02:30 < TkTech> Heh
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02:45 < Ghoul_> ff
02:45 < Ghoul_> Theres a glitch with WorldBorder or something
02:46 < Ghoul_> It's been annoying me to no end. If you use the fill command it always corrupts (at least one) chunks that cause (eventually) the whole server to throw an exception and crash
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02:54 <+Matvei> hm
02:54 <+Matvei> Tech support for AWS $49/month? eh.
02:56 <+Matvei> I hope I won't need it :P
02:56 < TkTech> Why in the hells would you?
02:56 <+Matvei> You're forgetting that I am a noob
02:57 <+Matvei> Now, to figure out what these dozens of different services mean...
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03:30 <+Matvei> I like how everything in AWS Sydney datacenter is 5-10x more expensive than the rest of the world. Poor Australians.
03:31 <+Matvei> Outbound bandwidth seems very expensive on EC2. $0.25/GB
03:32 <+Matvei> Oh wait I was looking at Australian pricing. $0.12/GB in US.
03:32 <+Matvei> Still.
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09:23 < Brottweiler> Would this be the channel for IRC support for mark2?
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09:30 <+clonejo> afaik there is an extra channel dedicated to that project
09:36 < Brottweiler> Yes, #mark2 seems to exist on freenode (tried on esper at first), pretty empty though
09:43 <+clonejo> edk: ping ^
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11:47 < dav1d> Brottweiler: ! :D
11:47 < Brottweiler> :o
11:48 < Brottweiler> dav1d: Your URL doesnt work btw, only the IP i think :(
11:48 < dav1d> Brottweiler: nope works
11:48 < Brottweiler> ok, it didnt the other day
11:48 < dav1d> I connect with the domain
11:48 < Brottweiler> well I tridd to go to the domain:6666, but only the IP worked
11:48 < dav1d> Brottweiler: you had https and not http?
11:49 < Brottweiler> i dont know, ican see later :P
11:49 < dav1d> or do you mean connecting to the server?
11:49 < dav1d> well, it should definitly work now
11:49 < dav1d> because I connect through the domain and can access the webpanel
11:50 < Brottweiler> okey, i tried to go to the webpanel
11:50 < dav1d> yeah, you probably used http
11:50 < Brottweiler> in my /etc/hosts I have the IP domain then the "fake" adresses for irssi to work :P
11:50 < Brottweiler> maybe
11:50 < dav1d> http → net::ERR_CONNECTION_RESET
11:51 < dav1d> gtg
11:52 < dav1d> cya
11:52 < Brottweiler> bai
11:57 < pbunny> ok, so i did http://dump.bitcheese.net/texts/axyjuxy/C for locking chunk B's mutexes from chunk A while chunk A's mutex is locked too
11:58 < pbunny> i.e. safelock(&chunk->entities_mutex,&xchunk->entities_mutex); ...do entities stuff... ; pthread_mutex_unlock(&xchunk->entities_mutex);
11:58 < pbunny> any better suggestions?
11:58 < pbunny> should prevent deadlocks, but may have not optimal performance
11:59 <+md_5> you are really still going for performance ;
11:59 < pbunny> yes.
12:00 <+md_5> on that note, usleep is actually depreceated and not in later posix standards
12:01 < pbunny> its trivial to replace it, i am asking about better implementations if any
12:02 < pbunny> dav1d: maybe you can suggest something? i would use your intellect now
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12:10 < dav1d> pbunny: you process each chunk in a mutex?
12:10 < dav1d> s/mutex/thread/
12:11 < dav1d> this is really inefficient
12:11 <+ammar2> he has a group of chunks iirc
12:11 < dav1d> I would combine all threads which do basically the same into one, so that no two threads to the same on different data
12:12 < dav1d> ammar2: still combining tasks instead of threads leaves you with less threads, which is always a good thing
12:13 < dav1d> -> less mutexes, less possible deadlocks, less bugs, way more system friendly
12:14 <+ammar2> ehhh, not necessarily. It can allow you to concurrently split and carry out complex tasks in parts. It's just the timing overhead + complexity outweights it significantly in this case
12:14 < pbunny> dav1d: no, i will have a thread pool
12:14 < pbunny> right now i use 1 chunk per thread due to better debugging
12:15 < pbunny> later there will be like 8-20 threads and chunks will be assigned and balanced between them
12:15 < dav1d> I used a threading-pool in BraLa, I ended up removing it
12:15 < pbunny> too complex?
12:15 < dav1d> yeah kinda, made things too difficult
12:16 < pbunny> dav1d: imagine 1 chunk has lots of redstone/entities/metaentities/etc and others are lightweight
12:16 < pbunny> how will you group them?
12:16 < pbunny> they 'do basically the same'
12:16 < dav1d> would have needed to divide each bigger step into independend steps, then feed the pool these tasks..
12:17 < pbunny> my balancer will detect the high overhead of thread with heavy chunk and gradually move random(?) chunks out of him to other threads until its workload is of acceptable % or only 1 chunk remains
12:17 < dav1d> make a safe way of reading block data, then a thread e.g. redstone, entities ... 
12:17 < pbunny> so in the end there will be 1 thread with this chunk only, and second thread with other chunks
12:18 < dav1d> but let them handle the whole world instead of a limited number of chunks, this also gets rid of redstone crossing borders
12:18 < dav1d> also, 1 thread per chunk? 
12:18 < pbunny> dav1d: 'handling the whole world' is the slowest part of it.
12:18 < dav1d> 144 chunks per player
12:18 < dav1d> you know that?
12:18 < pbunny> dav1d: no. do you read me?
12:18 < pbunny> its only for now, for debugging
12:18 < dav1d> then I dont understand it
12:18 < dav1d> well, let's say 144 chunks / thread
12:18 < dav1d> (radius around player)
12:19 < pbunny> i imagine running thread count that is similar or equal to CPU cores count
12:19 < dav1d> 100 players → 100 threads
12:19 < dav1d> oh yeah your pool
12:19 < pbunny> there is not much point in having threads count > CPU cores count i think
12:19 < dav1d> but then I'd rather have one thread per job instead of messing with pools
12:19 < pbunny> dav1d: like what job?
12:19 < dav1d> pbunny: there is, e.g. makes -j flag
12:19 < pbunny> wheat growth?
12:20 < dav1d> cores*2+1
12:20 < pbunny> thanks cap
12:20 < dav1d> this is the recommended value
12:20 < dav1d> pbunny: redstone calculations and shit
12:20 < dav1d> one thread
12:20 < pbunny> dav1d: i may use genetic algorithms to determine the optimal threads count
12:20 < dav1d> entities another
12:20 < pbunny> ( they will be spawned / killed on the fly )
12:20 < pbunny> dav1d: well entities thread will be screwed once you have like 100000 entities
12:21 < pbunny> because it will run on single CPU core
12:21 < pbunny> it won't scale
12:21 < pbunny> on other hand, per-chunk thread pools scale perfectly
12:21 < pbunny> just add CPU cores and performance grows
12:21 < dav1d> entity thread, redstone thread, ... at the moment you have more tasks than CPU cores, it doesn't matter, everything will be "slow"
12:21 < dav1d> "just add CPU cores" ...
12:22 < dav1d> well good luck
12:22 < pbunny> yeah, like upgrading CPUs
12:22 < dav1d> it makes things a whole lot harder
12:22 < pbunny> dav1d: in first version of my server i tried to do exactly as you describe now
12:22 < pbunny> but i understood soon enough that it won't scale
12:23 < pbunny> some of my entities (commander ones) will even use neural networks for decisions, they can be quite cpu-intensive
12:23 < dav1d> you probably use the wrong language then
12:23 < pbunny> no
12:24 < dav1d> there are other languages which provide exactly what you need
12:24 < dav1d> which are even designed for i
12:24 < dav1d> *it
12:24 < pbunny> for what?
12:24 < pbunny> dav1d: imagine there is no redstone in your world
12:24 < pbunny> redstone thread will then be empty
12:24 < pbunny> it will do nothing
12:24 < dav1d> clojure probably or definitly erlang!
12:24 < pbunny> ...
12:25 < dav1d> maybe even Go
12:25 < dav1d> but nothing compares to erlang threads, from what I know
12:25 < dav1d> clonejo: btw. how is your erlang server doing? :)
12:26 < pbunny> i prefer pthreads, thx
12:26 < dav1d> pbunny: an erlang thread is something completly different
12:26 < dav1d> pbunny: you looked at existing threadpool implementations?
12:26 < pbunny> i don't see anything difficult in implementing thread pool
12:27 < pbunny> will probably take 5 minutes
12:27 < dav1d> :(
12:29 < dav1d> doing it correctly isn't trivial (also not that hard), but you oversee something very easily, which will cause you headaches later
12:30 < pbunny> i.e. what?
12:30 < dav1d> well, a very basic threadpool
12:30 < dav1d> the D implementation has 4.5k lines
12:30 < pbunny> ...
12:30 < dav1d> (including comments and unittests)
12:30 < dav1d> which I recommend...
12:31 < pbunny> i will just time the execution time of every loop in subthread of world thread
12:31 < pbunny> world thread will then balance chunks 
12:31 < dav1d> was just a recommendation
12:31 < dav1d> do whatever you want
12:31 < pbunny> i.e. move chunks from slow threads to fast threads
12:31 < dav1d> and how will you handle chunk borders?
12:31 < pbunny> .....
12:32 < dav1d> e.g. sheep walking across, redstoneline going 100 chunks in length
12:32 < pbunny> safelock() i linked to earlier
12:32 < dav1d> oh that was your problem
12:32 < pbunny> entity migration is already working, valgrind drd is happy
12:33 <+ammar2> pbunny: is your block storage implementation totally thread safe?
12:33 < pbunny> ammar2: yes
12:34 < pbunny> ammar2: http://dump.bitcheese.net/texts/umefihi/C
12:35 <+md_5>         if (m_sDestNick.AsLower() == sLine.Token(4).AsLower())
12:35 <+md_5> oops
12:35 <+md_5> #ifdef	__cplusplus
12:35 <+md_5> extern "C" {
12:35 <+md_5> What is this, I dont even, why
12:35 <+ammar2> oh man, that timing overhead is really gonna kill you
12:35 <+md_5> pick a standard and stick to it
12:35 <+md_5> plz
12:36 <+md_5> unsigned char blocktype[16][16][16][16];
12:36 <+md_5> 4 dimensions
12:36 <+md_5> am I missing something ammar2 
12:36 < pbunny> thats what mc client uses
12:36 < dav1d> xyz?
12:36 < pbunny> i use the same format so i can just compress it and send
12:36 <+ammar2> md_5: beats me
12:36 <+md_5> xyzq?
12:36 < pbunny> md_5: first is chunk in chunk column
12:36 < pbunny> y/16
12:36 <+md_5> dafaq is the 4th dimension
12:36 <+ammar2> oh its an entire chunk
12:36 < dav1d> oh
12:36 <+clonejo> dav1d: pretty slow atm. Can't find much motivation :-/
12:36 < dav1d> clonejo: same for BraLa :(
12:37 <+ammar2> md_5: column, x, y, z
12:37 < dav1d> clonejo: wanted to rewrite it so engine looks like the cool minecraft animations
12:37 <+clonejo> hehe
12:37 < pbunny> ammar2: position in column
12:37 < dav1d> clonejo: but meh, would be relativly slow, and tbh I dont have the knowledge to implement it, so it would take me quite some time
12:38 < pbunny> ammar2: well timing overhead will appear only when trylock fails
12:38 < pbunny> that won't happen often i think
12:38 < dav1d> clonejo: mainly light and shadows (with transparency!)
12:39 < dav1d> blur and such stuff is easy
12:39 < dav1d> relativly simple shader, same goes with fog
12:39 < dav1d> antialiasing etc. p..
12:39 < dav1d> *pp.
12:39 < dav1d> clonejo: btw. when does your next semester start?
12:39 <+clonejo> dav1d: It already started last week.
12:40 < dav1d> clonejo: ah, had my first test last week, already :(
12:40 < dav1d> next one today -.-
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16:04 < shoghicp> wooo
16:04 < shoghicp> Brandon15811: has timeout xD
16:04 < shoghicp> shit.
16:04 < shoghicp> Incorrect channel
16:04 < shoghicp> same user xD
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17:42 < Not-001> [mineflayer] superjoe30 pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±6] http://git.io/dRvCdA
17:42 < Not-001> [mineflayer] zuazo 7f071f8 - minecraft-protocol 0.10.0: click "shift" renamed to "mode"
17:42 < Not-001> [mineflayer] superjoe30 0231996 - Merge pull request #150 from onddo/mc-proto-click-mode minecraft-protocol 0.10.0: click "shift" renamed to "mode"
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22:58 < TkTech> Matvei: Bah, I have to tab so many times now to get to your name!
22:59 < TkTech> Matvei: DigitalOcean has also been getting decent reviews and is pretty cheap, especially if you have some volume of traffic.
22:59 < TkTech> Matvei: I would still recommend AWS over anything else (but Rackspace) for long, long term, stable hosting.
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23:16 < roblabla> DigitalOcean is really good
23:17 < roblabla> I use it myself, pretty pleasant experience up till now.
23:19 < TkTech> The problem with it is that no one really knows how $5 is sustainable. Most people think it's a lure to get people signed up and the price will eventually get bumped.
23:20 < TkTech> That, and the inability to buy more bandwith.
23:20 < TkTech> If you get extremely popular and hit the top-tier 10TB limit you're paying $0.02/gb over that.
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23:37 < roblabla> that's probably how they sustain :P
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14:28 < pbunny> what problems can arise if i remove chunk threads sync to world ticks?
14:28 < pbunny> so they will run independent of ticks
14:32 < pbunny> that will actually result in tickless world
14:47 < roblabla> o_O
14:47 < roblabla> redstone
14:47 < roblabla> Do I need to say more ?
14:48 < roblabla> :P
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14:54 < pbunny> don't see problems with redstone
14:54 < pbunny> threads will still run with same speed
14:55 < pbunny> i.e. 20 iterations per second
14:55 < dav1d> you can measure realtime with redstone
14:55 < dav1d> so you would have to update redstone every tick anyways
14:55 < pbunny> i will update it every tick anyway
14:56 < dav1d> "that will actually result in tickless world"
14:56 < pbunny> well, every chunk thread will have its own ticks timing
14:56 < pbunny> but they will run at same speed
14:58 < pbunny> the only 'issue' i see is that sometimes stuff in adjactent chunks may happen by 0-49999ms later than in current chunk
14:58 < pbunny> and by ms i mean microseconds
15:00 < jast> so you mean μs
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15:18 < roblabla> pbunny: what's the goal you're trying to reach by doing that ?
15:19 < pbunny> roblabla: smoothup cpu usage
15:19 < pbunny> and reduce locking waits
15:20 < jast> threads aren't guaranteed to actually run in precisely those time slices you want
15:20 < jast> it's easily possible for your thread to start departing more and more from the timing you imagined
15:20 < pbunny> by time chunk threads will shift themselves by lock-waiting, and then they will have to wait less
15:20 < pbunny> jast: detecting time-slice-fails is another thing
15:20 < jast> unless you want to write your own scheduler
15:21 < pbunny> jast: but even with sync, they are not guaranteed to finish their loops in time
15:21 < pbunny> that's another problem
15:21 < pbunny> however, they will usually slowdown the nearby chunks too if there's something slow going on in them by keeping mutexes locked
15:22 < pbunny> i will detect that in world thread, and then hold non-slowed chunks to give slowed ones additional iterations
15:22 < pbunny> not best solution though
15:23 < pbunny> or maybe it is better to let them run as they can, just lightening the slow threads by assiging their chunks to other threads
15:24 < pbunny> i.e. if somebody will screw a chunk with redstone, only that chunk will be screwed
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20:24 < dav1d> clonejo: offscreen rendering with surf!?
20:24 < dav1d> (my next idea :P)
20:25 <+clonejo> Was war surf noch gleich?
20:25 <+clonejo> oh, sry
20:25 < dav1d> clonejo: http://surf.suckless.org
20:26 < dav1d> clonejo: minimalistic webkit/gtk based browser
20:26 <+clonejo> If you can get it to draw to an OpenGL context
20:26 < dav1d> yeah that's the hard part
20:27 < dav1d> also injecting keyboard mouse etc.
20:27 < dav1d> never done anything before with webkit
20:27 < dav1d> so might be ehm interesting
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20:49 < eddyb> dav1d: that looks like a cool WebKit wrapper
20:49 < eddyb> Chromium's Skia gfx platform can draw to anything
20:50 < dav1d> eddyb: it is :)
20:50 < dav1d> suckless stuff in general is awesome
20:50 < dav1d> eddyb: chromium is maybe too fat
20:50 < eddyb> but GTK won't get you as far as Skia
20:50 < dav1d> well it definitly is
20:50 < dav1d> that's right
20:50 < eddyb> hmm
20:51 < dav1d> but I looked into coding it with chromium ... I had no idea where to start
20:51 < eddyb> maybe when Blink gets stable, you can use that instead
20:51 < dav1d> and gave up after ~3 days with no line written
20:51 < dav1d> eddyb: and blink is?
20:52 < eddyb> dav1d: basically Google decided they had to fork WebKit and remove all the parts that they don't need
20:52 < dav1d> oh it's new rendering engine :O
20:52 < dav1d> yeah I knew that
20:52 < dav1d> and they call it blink?
20:52 < eddyb> yepp
20:52 < eddyb> Blink+V8 might be the way to go
20:52 < dav1d> TIL
20:52 < eddyb> I'm not sure what else you would need from Chromium. like, I don't think Skia is integrated in Blink yet
20:53 <+Prf_Jakob> There was also the fact that Chromium/Webkit had two javascript engines
20:53 -!- roblabla is now known as roblabla|Away
20:53 <+Prf_Jakob> two different threading system
20:53 <+Prf_Jakob> s
20:53 < eddyb> yeah, JSC was the largest part of WebKit they removed
20:54 < eddyb> Prf_Jakob: actually, they are multi-process architectures <insert more technobabble>
20:54 <+Prf_Jakob> eddyb: hehe right
20:55 < dav1d> eddyb: do they plan to release *any* documentation?
20:55 < eddyb> aren't there doxygen docs for Chromium?
20:56 < dav1d> digging through the source I haven't seen anything helpful
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20:57 < eddyb> dav1d: http://www.chromium.org/blink#TOC-API-Owners apparently they want stricter rules about APIs so that could be a clue
20:58 < eddyb> dav1d: have you seen this before? https://code.google.com/p/chromiumembedded/
20:58 < dav1d> well, I think I'll go with webkitgtk
20:58 < dav1d> eddyb: yes, doesnt work on linux
20:59 < eddyb> huh?
20:59 < dav1d> eddyb: https://github.com/Dav1dde/cef
20:59 < dav1d> eddyb: offscreen rendering
20:59 < dav1d> I made fucking complete bindings for both versions, finding out it doesnt work
20:59 < eddyb> April 8, 2013: Version 3.1364.1188 is the first binary release for 32-bit and 64-bit Linux. In addition to the changes described below for version 3.1364.1094 it includes the following enhancements and bug fixes.
20:59 < eddyb> ok, so CEF is bad
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21:29 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 25 commits to snapshot [+19/-0/±93] http://git.io/H2kAIA
21:29 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 67b41de - Improved metadata dictionary usage
21:29 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 16cf484 - Fixed metadata encoding for strings
21:29 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 6f0a7f7 - Removed test code from ItemEntity
21:29 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 64684a3 - Added internal default constructors to metadata items, fixes deserialization
21:29 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 01a0ad6 - Changed metadata dictionary decoder to use correct metadata entry constructor
21:30 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 73fbbd1 - Changed visibility of constructors in metadata entry classes
21:30 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] ammaraskar b270852 - Fix stair orientation (closes #146)
21:30 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn b9f5d58 - Made stair up/down orientation use cursor position
21:30 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 81365e1 - Fixed door orientation, closes #144
21:30 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 612462f - Fixed hunger/eating issues, closes #137
21:30 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn aabfdde - Added read-only world classes for clients
21:30 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn a7e85ca - Added ability to save read only worlds, unload chunks
21:30 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 53f7fdd - Parse chunk packets in client
21:30 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 94c0d9d - Fix bug with 0x38 packets without light
21:30 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn df2f710 - Added ChunkRecieved event
21:30 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 6932fd6 - Update README.md
21:30 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn a5b926f - Fixed various bugs with Linux/Mac support
21:30 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 9d2eb61 - Merge branch 'master' of github.com:SirCmpwn/Craft.Net into HEAD
21:30 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 28edb02 - Updated README to mention issues with certs on mono
21:30 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn cf1896f - Fixed bugs with compiling on mono
21:30 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 206dfd7 - Fixed hardness and drop for diamond ore
21:30 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 34654cd - Changed visibility of AcceptConnectionAsync
21:30 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 7dcdfc8 - Added to Craft.Net.Data.Level to allow for singleplayer levels to be saved
21:30 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn c50bb26 - Update README.md
21:30 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 28052d4 - Update protocol version, add new blocks/items
21:42 < TkTech> I *think* I'm going to set a commit limit on this channel...
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22:10 < superjoe> it's almost like SirCmpwn is still with us
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22:29 < SL37> Hey, when a server is sending its 0xFD packet how does it create it server id?
22:29 < SL37> Is it just a randomly generated string?
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22:48 <+ammar2> TkTech: wikibot seems to be dead
22:48 <+ammar2> just made a change to pre-release page and it didn't fire off
22:48 < TkTech> I shall poke
22:51 < TkTech> ammar2: Gave it a restart, see if it works on the next change
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22:51 <+ammar2> all right, thanks.
22:51 < TkTech> (That's a super sketchy bot, if someone wants to improve it, it's on github)
23:00 < Not-001> [wiki.vg] Edit by SirCmpwn to Pre-release protocol -> http://tinyurl.com/d9t3sr2
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23:06 < Not-001> [wiki.vg] Edit by SirCmpwn to Pre-release protocol -> http://tinyurl.com/cn4lyxz
23:07 < Not-001> [wiki.vg] Edit by SirCmpwn to Pre-release protocol -> http://tinyurl.com/c3b3nz9
23:07 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to snapshot [+0/-0/±6] http://git.io/f1WDeA
23:07 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn e187742 - In-progress protocol updates
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23:21 <+md_5> <pbunny> [22:49:41] threads will still run with same speed
23:21 <+md_5> plz
23:21 <+md_5> how many threads
23:21 <+md_5> outline thread moel
23:21 <+md_5> model
23:21 <+md_5> if there are more than 24 threads in total.... why?
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23:42 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to snapshot [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/r4AXow
23:42 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn b43d7dc - Added another changed packet
23:43 < Not-001> [wiki.vg] Edit by SirCmpwn to Protocol -> http://tinyurl.com/ckf7zat
23:44 < Not-001> [wiki.vg] Edit by SirCmpwn to Pre-release protocol -> http://tinyurl.com/c6jwq5b
23:47 < Not-001> [wiki.vg] Edit by Ceiru to Pre-release protocol -> http://tinyurl.com/cfgcxl3
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00:00 < Not-001> [wiki.vg] Edit by SirCmpwn to Pre-release protocol -> http://tinyurl.com/c87bytb
00:01 < Not-001> [wiki.vg] Edit by Ammaraskar to Pre-release protocol -> http://tinyurl.com/bpzondt
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00:17 < Not-001> [wiki.vg] Edit by SirCmpwn to Library List -> http://tinyurl.com/d2cl9j3
00:19 < Not-001> [wiki.vg] Edit by SirCmpwn to Server List -> http://tinyurl.com/c2k5ob5
00:19 < Not-001> [wiki.vg] Edit by Ammaraskar to Pre-release protocol -> http://tinyurl.com/d7b3jvr
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06:09 < SinZ> new launcher is cool...
06:10 < TkTech> SinZ: Screenshots anywhere?
06:14 < SinZ> It currently only supports 13w16a
06:15 < SinZ> (on the mojang blog)
06:15 < SinZ> Launcher is slower than the old one, because it downloads all the assets one at a time, that Minecraft used to do in the background
06:18 < SinZ> oooh, includes a JSON file of all the libraries it uses, and what not to include from them
06:27 < SinZ> even a pretty JSON file on the download server with a version list
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07:42 < pbunny> md_5: threads count isn't fixed, i will spawn the optimal number
07:44 < pbunny> for debugging purposes i use thread for every chunk
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09:53 < Not-001> [wiki.vg] Edit by Md 5 to Pre-release protocol -> http://tinyurl.com/bvt9ydh
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11:13 < Not-001> [wiki.vg] Edit by Md 5 to Pre-release protocol -> http://tinyurl.com/cya5b35
11:54 <+md_5> Grum just saw:   public void a(DataInput paramDataInput), thanks a lot!
11:54 <+md_5> much appreciated.
11:54 < Grum> yw
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--- Log opened ven. avril 19 17:59:48 2013
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19:23 < dav1d> yay, let's do some coding in C
19:24 < dav1d> let's see if I still enjoy the pain :)
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07:01 < _177> I have a really odd question…. About 3 months ago I remember browsing wiki.vg and came across a packet that when send Client to Server with arbitrary coordinates, the server would respond with a 0x35 Block Change packet with the current block occupying the specified coordinates. Now no matter where I look I can't find it.
07:01 < _177> Am I instane? Did such a thing ever exist?
07:02 < _177> Is there a place on the wiki where I can look at old protocol specs
07:03 <+ammar2> I think you're going insane
07:04 <+ammar2> I have no memories of such a packet existing, ever.
07:04 <+ammar2> anyway, there's a protocol history page and you can manually view the history of the protocol page in the top right corner
07:06 < _177> OHHHH there it is
07:07 < _177> If you send a Player Digging x0E with status bye 3 it does what I was thinking
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--- Log closed sam. avril 20 07:25:02 2013
--- Log opened sam. avril 20 07:25:09 2013
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11:57 < Not-001> [wiki.vg] Edit by STR Warrior to Server List -> http://tinyurl.com/cdsakuu
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14:49 < Thinkofdeath> Just a thought: That new int on Entity Action might be the position of the energy bar for horses meaning there should an action id to go with it (Can't test with my server currently)
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01:25 < toqueteos> hi there mcdevs, guys i need some help with a packet-related issue https://gist.github.com/toqueteos/016bc796456e5878e396
01:27 < TkTech> What you gonna do when the UCS2 come for you
01:27 < TkTech> Ho, nevermind, missed the dots.
01:27 < toqueteos> that /should/ be ok, right?
01:28 < TkTech> Do you actually know if your encryption works?
01:29 < toqueteos> i'm getting two errors, it varies.. http://i.imgur.com/7quVEmx.png
01:29 < toqueteos> i'm starting to think it's not working actually xD
01:29 < toqueteos> but that's the first packet i send with encryption on so..
01:30 < toqueteos> the other error http://i.imgur.com/9kweAbk.png both string related
01:32 < dav1d> toqueteos: haha
01:32 < dav1d> that should be already fixed in latest minecraft
01:32 < dav1d> I found that bug in the minecraft source
01:32 < dav1d> toqueteos: you're the server?
01:33 < toqueteos> yes, i am
01:33 < dav1d> oh well
01:33 < dav1d> I fixed it for the minecraft server
01:33 < toqueteos> actually, it has to be my encrytion because i see a weeeird payload on 0xCB
01:33 < toqueteos> 0xCD, sorry
01:33 < dav1d> toqueteos: problem is, minecraft does: .read(X) on the stream and not .readExact(X), which means, if there are less bytes, less will be read
01:34 < dav1d> try to send the whole packet at once
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01:34 < dav1d> not with continues write calls, with one
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01:34 < dav1d> that fixed it for me
01:34 < toqueteos> payload of -X for 0xCD isn't a good signal
01:34 < toqueteos> it should be 0 or 1 according to wiki.vg
01:34 < dav1d> since 1.5 this should be fixed for the server
01:37 < toqueteos> thanks dav1d
01:37 < dav1d> toqueteos: it works?
01:37 < toqueteos> and TkTech
01:37 < dav1d> Dinnerbone: ^
01:37 < toqueteos> nope it doesn't
01:37 < toqueteos> but it's my fault
01:37 < dav1d> Dinnerbone: nvm then, sorry, I thought that was the fix
01:37 < toqueteos> not minecraft's
01:37 < Thinkofdeath> toqueteos: What language are you doing it in?
01:37 < toqueteos> Go
01:38 < Thinkofdeath> :)
01:38 < Thinkofdeath> I have a working Go server
01:38 < Thinkofdeath> Its messy
01:38 < toqueteos> i tried, incorrectly as i see, wrapping my net.Conn with the cipher and it's not working properly
01:39 < Thinkofdeath> toqueteos: https://gist.github.com/thinkofdeath/d37fd6fafb1c79246327
01:39 < Thinkofdeath> Thats all the connection stuff
01:39 < toqueteos> nice!
01:39 < toqueteos> i was going to ask you for a github url but it's on bitbucket
01:40 < Thinkofdeath> https://gist.github.com/thinkofdeath/d37fd6fafb1c79246327#file-gistfile1-go-L1852 this part might be the bit you need
01:40 < toqueteos> mine's is at https://github.com/toqueteos/minero i didn't upload yet the server code
01:40 < Thinkofdeath> I haven't open sourced mine yet
01:40 < Thinkofdeath> I should...
01:41 < toqueteos> woah! you have all that in a single file?!
01:41 < toqueteos> jesus christ
01:42 < toqueteos> its messy yes hahaha
01:42 < Thinkofdeath> Its old... never split it
01:42 < Thinkofdeath> Everything else changed that hasn't
01:42 < toqueteos> why did you implement XORKeyStream by yourself?
01:42 < Thinkofdeath> :P
01:42 < toqueteos> doesn't Go's std work?
01:42 < Thinkofdeath> Because the I couldn't get the Go one to work
01:42 < toqueteos> oh, that's it
01:43 < Thinkofdeath> But yeah that 1900 line file should be split up...
01:44 < toqueteos> i tried to implement my own StreamReadWriter
01:44 < toqueteos> so i could wrap net.Conn with it if online-mode was true
01:44 < toqueteos> and that's what I think it's failing
01:45 < Thinkofdeath> I just use one cipher.StreamReader and one cipher.StreamWriter
01:46 < toqueteos> yep L45-46 first thing i saw
01:47 < toqueteos> i'm curious does your nbt implementation use interface{} or reflect Thinkofdeath ?
01:48 < Thinkofdeath> interface
01:48 < Thinkofdeath> I think
01:48 < Thinkofdeath> Let me find it
01:48 < Thinkofdeath> I wrote it awhile ago
01:49 < toqueteos> don't worry it's just curiosity
01:49 < toqueteos> don't search it if you are busy
01:49 < Thinkofdeath> https://gist.github.com/thinkofdeath/f85632e752c21126edba 
01:49 < Thinkofdeath> Nah not busy
01:51 < toqueteos> similar approach.. WriteTo but not the one io.Copy uses.. interesting
01:52 < Thinkofdeath> Yeah, tags in a list are different
01:52 < toqueteos> i made the integer/real types another package so i could use them for packets too
01:53 < toqueteos> all other things seem more or less the same
01:53 < Thinkofdeath> Using binary.Write in your types/real?
01:53 < toqueteos> yes
01:54 < toqueteos> i see you used math
01:54 < toqueteos> Floatfrombits..
01:54 < toqueteos> didn't thought of it
01:54 < Thinkofdeath> Might of changed since i last benchmarked it but it was very slow because of reflection
01:54 < toqueteos> probably.. i didn't benchmark my nbt package
01:55 < Thinkofdeath> (Benchmarked about 1-2 years ago)
01:55 < toqueteos> first make it work then make it fast
01:55 < toqueteos> my current philosophy
01:55 < Thinkofdeath> True
01:55 < Thinkofdeath> Yeah it was just big on the pprof graph :P
01:56 < toqueteos> can i use your CFB8 implementation to check if my thing is working?
01:56 < Thinkofdeath> Go for it
01:56 < toqueteos> thanks
01:56 < Thinkofdeath> Its ported from somewhere
01:56 < Thinkofdeath> Not sure where...
01:59 < Thinkofdeath> Found it: https://code.google.com/p/caffeine-hx/source/browse/trunk/ext3/chx/crypt/mode/CFB8.hx?r=663
02:00 < Thinkofdeath> toqueteos: Anyway going to sleep now, hope you get your server working
02:00 < toqueteos> same here, thanks
02:00 < toqueteos> many thanks
02:01 < Thinkofdeath> np
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02:03 < toqueteos> "For the Initial Vector (IV) and AES setup, both sides use the secret key." Does this mean that shared secret is used both as key and iv?
02:04 <+sadimusi> yes
02:05 < toqueteos> ok, just to ensure i did understand it. thanks sadimusi
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04:05 < MonkeyPwns> Hello
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04:07 < MonkeyPwns> I started a minecraft smp server software recently
04:08 < MonkeyPwns> It's on github (/bedrockdev/)
04:08 < MonkeyPwns> I am in need of developers
04:08 < MonkeyPwns> Any takers?
04:23 < SinZ> you have no code at all on that github...
04:24 < MonkeyPwns> I know 
04:24 < MonkeyPwns> I'm trying to get a stable team ready, before I try anything big.
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04:31 < TkTech> I have *never* heard that before.
04:32 < MonkeyPwns> :P
04:33 < MonkeyPwns> I will start as soon as I have at least one other person contributing
04:38 < MonkeyPwns> Or in other words, I don't have the knowledge to get it done by myself.
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05:09 < TkTech> Years and years and I still don't understand why people think that's how it works.
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11:30 < dav1d> MadMockers: well, if you want a team out of nothinh, pay me
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15:22 < MadMockers> dav1d: wat
15:22 < dav1d> MadMockers: give me money and I code for you
15:22 < MadMockers> what are you even talking about
15:23 < MadMockers> Perhaps you meant MonkeyPwns?
15:23 < dav1d> MadMockers: sorry fail highlight
15:23 < dav1d> :(
15:23 < dav1d> the znc backlog threw me off
15:23 < MadMockers> can i give you cookies?
15:23 < MadMockers> that's all i got
15:23 < zutto> did someone mention cookies?
15:23 < MadMockers> err
15:23 < MadMockers> no
15:23 < MadMockers> no cookies here
15:23 < MadMockers> carry on
15:23 < zutto> :(
15:24 < dav1d> :O
15:24 < dav1d> cookies :D
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15:36 < toqueteos> Thinkofdeath: thanks to what you pointed me yesterday I just pushed my first server /not-complete-but-working/ implementation. Thanks!
15:36 < Thinkofdeath> np :)
15:43 < toqueteos> if you open source your version let me know i'll gladly contribute
15:48 < Thinkofdeath> Maybe I will at some point
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21:37 < MonkeyPwns> Hello citizens of #mcdevs
21:38 < MonkeyPwns> I've returned c: This time, in my github repo (BedrockDev/Bedrock) i've got some stuff on there
21:38 < MonkeyPwns> I need some developers to help me with it
21:38 < MonkeyPwns> Any takers?
21:44 < dav1d> if you pay me
21:45 < dav1d> oh shit in java
21:47 < MonkeyPwns> lol
21:49 < dav1d> MonkeyPwns: it's hard to get people for free for a new project out of nowhere
21:49 < dav1d> (except you pay them)
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22:00 < MonkeyPwns> Hmm
22:00 < MonkeyPwns> Well that sucks for me :(
22:02 < dexter0> why not contribute to another mcserver project like Craft.Net or Spout instead?
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22:21 < MonkeyPwns> well
22:22 < MonkeyPwns> the point of me doing this is trying to see if I can lead a project; or in other words making my own unique decisions
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22:41 < mpa1212> How would I go about feeding text into a server running through a terminal?
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22:47 < Not-001> [Miners] Wallbraker pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/8lN7OA
22:47 < Not-001> [Miners] Wallbraker 9d59ac8 - mc: Minor fixes
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22:51 < Not-001> [Miners] Wallbraker pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/e1UCFA
22:51 < Not-001> [Miners] Wallbraker b271fd6 - mc: Minor fixes Signed-off-by: Jakob Bornecrantz <wallbraker@gmail.com>
22:52 < Not-001> [Miners] Wallbraker pushed 3 commits to wip-d2-port [+3/-3/±143] http://git.io/aNEZqw
22:52 < Not-001> [Miners] Wallbraker 9fa2ae5 - charge: Remove non-ported parts Signed-off-by: Jakob Bornecrantz <wallbraker@gmail.com>
22:52 < Not-001> [Miners] Wallbraker 9a1d0e7 - charge: Port to D2 Signed-off-by: Jakob Bornecrantz <wallbraker@gmail.com>
22:52 < Not-001> [Miners] Wallbraker 09f33f2 - sys: Fixes for delete going away Signed-off-by: Jakob Bornecrantz <wallbraker@gmail.com>
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23:26 < Epickillz> Hello
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02:01 < TkTech> …by not leaving before someone has a chance to answer.
02:01 < TkTech> (Although that might have been 80 hours ago, my timestamps are messed up)
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02:33 < Jailout2000> They left about 45 seconds after saying hello.
02:35 < toqueteos> hi MonkeyPwns
02:35 < MonkeyPwns> Hey
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02:38 < toqueteos> aand he left
02:38 < toqueteos> good night mcdevs
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02:42 < epickillz> HEy
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05:01 < TkTech> Grum, You guys ever gonna smack classic around?
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08:39 < Grum> TkTech: people will complain
08:39 < Grum> but our intention is to move it to a place where you can just find it, we'll not point at it
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09:23 < SinZ> iirc, classic servers don't work right with mojang accounts
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11:08 <+md_5> Grum on a scale of 1-10, how likely is an X-Forwarded-For type PluginChannel/packet to be added. I already send one to my custom server before sending Ping/Handshake, and it works really nicely,  you can just swap out the cached InetSocketAddress
11:08 <+md_5> Really useful if you have a proxy/ddos protection/etc
11:14 < Dinnerbone> That stuff is why we have plugin channels!
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11:15 <+md_5> Dinnerbone I meant *In vanilla*
11:15 <+md_5> I already have said channel in my server: Channel-Login, String-IP, int-port
11:15 < Dinnerbone> And vanilla won't get any use out of that (aside from a possible exploit vector. That shouldn't be used unless you know you're in a proxy situation)
11:15 <+md_5> the port is useless, but might as well replicate exactly
11:16 <+md_5> D:
11:17 <+md_5> People have DDOS protection on vanilla servers, I'm sure of it!
11:18 <+md_5> people use bungee on vanilla, equally unlikely, but still
11:18 < Dinnerbone> And if it's built into the server or the server is taught how to be aware of it, it ain't vanilla anymore!
11:19  * md_5 waits till X-Fowarded-For becomes part of the http spec, so he can call it vanilla html
11:19 < Dinnerbone> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/16138264/nginx-proxy-pass-to-minecraft-server
11:20 <+md_5> lmao
11:20 <+md_5> was only asked yesterday
11:22 <+md_5> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-petersson-forwarded-for-00
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15:29 < TkTech> Grum, Righto. From my perspective it's lived its time.
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15:41 < _dd_> Hey everybody
15:41 < _dd_> To anyone which has experience with the Minecraft protocol, are strings zero-terminated?
15:42 <+Fador> no.
15:42 <+ammar2> nope, they're prepended with a short dictating their length
15:47 < _dd_> Thanks guys!
15:53 < TkTech> _dd_, And don't make the 2nd common mistake; they're UCS-2.
15:55 < TkTech> Anyone think we should have a checklist page?
15:55 < TkTech> Just for the common starter problems like string encoding and encryption.
15:56 <+ammar2> toss 'em in the FAQ page and emphasize it a bit more
16:06 < _dd_> Thank you, TkTech :)
16:06 < pbunny> _dd_: and string length short is big-endian :)
16:08 < _dd_> There should be an article regarding all these things...
16:08 < _dd_> Also, is there a translation project for the wiki?
16:08 < _dd_> I would be happy to translate the articles in Italian
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16:30 <+ammar2> pbunny: everything is big endian :P
16:30 <+ammar2> network order
16:39 < Grum> TkTech: from ours as well, but apparently there is still a community around it; i just think it should not be as visible as it is right now
16:40 < Grum> also doing stuff from java makes it easier than from other languages! (because you can find that source ;)
16:40 < pbunny> Grum: and uglier :)
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16:41 < Grum> pbunny: looks quite simple/elegant in java though
16:41 < Grum> it gets ugly when you try to be compatible with it ;)
16:41 <+ammar2> classic introduced me to the game, there's something about building stuff with other players that a demo just can't get close to
16:41 < pbunny> it gets ugly when you try to optimize it to not use 1Gb per chunk etc
16:42 <+ammar2> my decission to get the game was heavily introduced by my day or two in classic
16:42 < pbunny> then you understand that java sucks, and use a good language like C
16:43 <+ammar2> uhh..good job brain s/introduced/influenced/
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17:02 < TkTech> _dd_, I'm sure we could use translations but then we have the problem of maintaining it.
17:02 < TkTech> _dd_, English at least is the Latin of the day, pretty much everyone in CS can read it.
17:03 < TkTech> Grum, it's simplicity is its popularity (and the whole free thing).
17:03 < TkTech> Grum, Plus, Notch messed up and released classic and infdev jars that aren't obfuscated at all.
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17:29 < Grum> pbunny: 'a good language like c'
17:29 < Grum> could i get your code that runs in linux and osx right now?
17:29 < Grum> TkTech: it's also a VERY bad demo of minecraft
17:30 < pbunny> Grum: a good C code will run on any OS with sane compiler
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17:30 < Grum> pbunny: so compile it for me so it runs on osx
17:30 < pbunny> unless it's designed for specific OS
17:30 < pbunny> i design my mc server for linux only, so i use pthreads
17:30 < pbunny> and i give no sh*t about apple and m$
17:30 < Grum> oh wait, so you write very shitty c code eventhough the language is good?
17:30 < Calinou> finally someone makes linux-only software :D
17:30 < pbunny> i will never use them
17:31 < Grum> so hows it going with the: 'all in memory minecraft' ?
17:31 < Grum> also a chunk doesnt take 1gb in java o.O
17:31 < pbunny> Grum: good
17:31 < Grum> did you already solve the persistence issue?
17:32 < pbunny> i predict its completion somewhere near July
17:32 < pbunny> persistence?
17:32 < Grum> well, power fails .. all your world data is gone :p
17:32 < pbunny> ...
17:32 < pbunny> world is saved to disk periodically
17:32 < pbunny> asynchronously
17:32 < Grum> sadly it doesnt really allow for unlimited worlds :/
17:32 < Grum> how far did you get with implementing minecraft sofar?
17:33 < Grum> already did mobs/ai/redstone/'growing of stuff' ?
17:33 < pbunny> Grum: i am doing the second version now, which has multithreaded worlds
17:33 < Grum> so the first one is finished?
17:33 < pbunny> currently world structure is mostly ready, also there are working world chunk threads, some entity processing (i.e. cross-chunk migrations)
17:34 < pbunny> Grum: the first one didn't have multithreaded worlds
17:34 < Calinou> lol, remaking a MC server
17:34 < pbunny> and it had some other problems
17:34 < Calinou> can you learn other things instead? like, nouveau reclocking?
17:34 < Calinou> things that would be useful? ;-;
17:34 < Grum> so wait, if you shoot an arrow you will depending on your shot have that arrow in 4-40 threads? :P
17:34 < pbunny> Calinou: as far as i know, no mc server currently has truly independent world
17:34 < Grum> 'independent world' ?
17:34 < pbunny> all current servers are just some kind of combined single player
17:35 < Grum> you are not making any sense
17:35 < pbunny> Grum: world that is there independently of players
17:35 < pbunny> i.e. furnaces work, wheat grows etc
17:35 < pbunny> mobs move
17:35 < Grum> you do know why that is right?
17:35 < pbunny> yes, it will be a true multiplayer server
17:35 < pbunny> not singleplayer with shared map
17:35 < Grum>  < Grum> already did mobs/ai/redstone/'growing of stuff' ? <-- that question kinda spoils it
17:36 < Grum> because you didn't do those things yet
17:36 < pbunny> don't see much problems there
17:36 < Grum> ofcourse you do not :P
17:36 < Calinou> furnaces working when chunks are not loaded is theorically possible, as in, "minetest does that"
17:36 < Calinou> but it is a whole different game. but still MC-like
17:36 < pbunny> Grum: if you fund me, i wouldn't had to have a job and could develop server faster
17:36 < Calinou> it's not like it is important or even balanced
17:36 < Calinou> it's part of the fantasy thing
17:36 < Calinou> can you place redstone in air? nope
17:36 < Grum> pbunny: i've seen snipets of your code, it makes me want to throw up
17:37 < pbunny> Grum: what snippets?
17:37 < Grum> you pasted some stuff before
17:37 < pbunny> Calinou: in my server there is no concept like "chunks loaded"
17:37 < pbunny> everything is always there (in memory) and is being processed
17:37 < Grum> also did you ever write an efficient lighting algorithm?
17:37 < pbunny> not yet
17:37 < Grum> did you do mobspawns?
17:37 < Grum> mob ai?
17:37 < Grum> pathing?
17:37 < Grum> redstone?
17:37 < pbunny> no?
17:38 < pbunny> the second version is 1 week old now
17:38 < Grum> random block updates?
17:38 < pbunny> ...
17:38 < Grum> (needed for growing)
17:38 < pbunny> whats difficult in those?
17:38 < pbunny> just lock the chunk and write to it
17:38 < Grum> nothing, but each chunk gets 40 of them per gametick
17:38 < pbunny> why 40?
17:38 < Grum> so if you have 20000 chunks in memory ....
17:38 < Grum> because 40
17:38 < Grum> you will do 800000 'random' polls to blocks
17:38 < pbunny> Grum: and a block update will use 1 mutex lock operation, 1 assignment operation, and 1 mutex unlock operation
17:39 < Grum> 20 times per second :p
17:39 < pbunny> my CPUs can handle billions of such block changes
17:39 < pbunny> its not freaking java
17:39 < Grum> but there is more than that, they have to be communicated to the client as well :p
17:39 < Grum> so DOING the changes is one thing, you have to keep track of them as well
17:40 < pbunny> Grum: unless there will be million clients with million-block view distance and billions of block updates per seconds, i see no problems
17:40 < Grum> hehe
17:40 < Grum> well, go implement the full game on it
17:40 < Grum> we'll see if you run into issues :)
17:40 < pbunny> sure
17:40 < Grum> a single block that changes can influence ~4100 other blocks' lightvalue
17:41 < Grum> there is a good reason why we unload chunks, because its silly to keep them loaded
17:42 < pbunny> ....
17:42 < pbunny> right, it is silly to have cool stuff like mob wars possible
17:43 < pbunny> realtime sucks
17:43 < pbunny> lets go singleplayer!
17:43 < pbunny> 40 players online!
17:43 < pbunny> or 60 if server has 100Gb of RAM
17:43 < pbunny> but we use java because its pretty
17:44 < pbunny> and our univercity told us java is the best language (and C#)
18:09 < toqueteos> has any of you here tried to propose changes to the protocol to mojang?
18:10 <+ammar2> hahaha
18:10 <+ammar2> yeah, I'm fairly sure quite a bit of people have tried
18:10 < toqueteos> just what i was expecting :(
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18:22 < TkTech> Grum, Heh, silly language wars.
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18:22 < TkTech> Grum, Keep in mind "all in memory" doesn't necessarily mean physical memory. (Yay mmap, PAE, etc…)
18:24 < TkTech> toqueteos, What exactly is your proposed change?
18:24 < TkTech> toqueteos, And what's your justification for thinking it's better?
18:25 < toqueteos> TkTech, none, just curious about it, something feels broken
18:25 < toqueteos> TkTech, maybe dealing with inventory, when you clear inventory in creative you send a load of inventory packets, that could be zlib'd and sent together
18:26 < toqueteos> TkTech, i'm just starting to toy with it, it's been like.. 3 maybe 4 weeks using it
18:27 < toqueteos> yesterday i started with chunk loading and i managed to create something awful and i don't know how: http://imgur.com/BIhfKol that was supposed to be a 8x8 chunks square, 64 tall of stone
18:29 < pbunny> TkTech: i am going to use physical memory though :)
18:30 < pbunny> 256Gb is enough for 10000x10000x256 world, which is enough for any sane person
18:32 < pbunny> world will loop if player goes farther
18:32  * dx walks in
18:32  * dx laughs and facepalms
18:32  * dx leaves
18:34 < pbunny> ?
18:58 < cathode> 256GB is not really that hard to put in one server these days
18:58 < cathode> not cheap, sure. but not difficult either.
18:59 < cathode> almost all dual-socket ASUS or Supermicro boards support 16 to 32 DIMM slots allowing you up to 1TB of RAM using 32GB DIMMs
19:00 < cathode> er, to rephrase... dual-socket boards with 32 DIMM slots are easy to find. and you can load them up with gobs of RAM
19:01 < TkTech> cathode, The money is still in more efficient servers. Disk costs a whole lot less (especially for mass hosters) than RAM.
19:03 < TkTech> No reason to keep the entire map in memory. It makes a few things simpler like redstone and lighting (which needs its neighbours), but the "complex" solutions work fine.
19:21 < Grum> wait; just 10000x10000? :p
19:23 < Grum> one chunk in your system is ~680kb?
19:42 < Guest97501> why can't you use chunks on server?
19:47 < toqueteos> can anyone suggest me a nice way of generating 32b entity ids?
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19:48 < toqueteos> maybe hashing or better a global atomic counter?
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19:55 <+clonejo> toqueteos: you could also have several counters starting at different positions
19:57 <+clonejo> you might run into collisions if you do hashing or random number generators
19:58 < TkTech> toqueteos, Counter and a capped stack.
19:58 < TkTech> toqueteos, Counter is the max current entity ID, stack holds recently released IDs that can be reclaimed.
19:59 < toqueteos> TkTech awesome!
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20:32 < DigiDuncan> Hello!
20:33 < DigiDuncan> Could anyone help me out with a mod issue?
20:33 < DigiDuncan> Everyone knows about the Gulliver Mod: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1112856-151mlforge-gulliver-the-resizing-mod-v0133-beta-april-7-changing-your-perspective-of-minecraft-over-90000-downloads/
20:34 < DigiDuncan> Well, it has abatrary height caps of 1/8 scale and 8 scale, for reasons of, according to the mod creator, 'i don't wanna'.
20:34 < DigiDuncan> Could anyone remove these height caps for me?
20:34 < DigiDuncan> I would NOT redistribute the mod.
20:34 < DigiDuncan> Just use it for a video.
20:40 <+clonejo> DigiDuncan: Please not that this channel is not about bukkit plugins, but about fully custom standalone software. Also I doubt the height caps are easy to remove, since then the author would already have done that.
20:41 < DigiDuncan> Height caps can be removed, stated by author, he just doesn't want to do it for his mod.
20:41 < DigiDuncan> Also, it's not a Bukkit plugin, it's a mod mod.
20:42 < DigiDuncan> Like, if anyone could just decompile the mod, remove the height cap, and recompile it, I would be ever grateful.
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21:07 < DigiDuncan> brb, mega hunger.
21:09 < dav1d> dot com
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21:32 < Grum> DigiDuncan: but why not teach yourself that skill?
21:32 < dav1d> Grum: because!
21:32 < DigiDuncan> Grum?! OMG.
21:32 < Grum> WHERE! /me prowls
21:32 < DigiDuncan> lol.
21:33 < DigiDuncan> I tried learning Java, my brain leaked out my ears.
21:33 < Grum> 20:46:30 < DigiDuncan> I'll do some derping about in the code, get back to you guys  <-- you got back to us quickly! just 45mins :p
21:34 < DigiDuncan> Yeah, MCP daid it wouldnt DC it if it had foreign mods in it.
21:34 < DigiDuncan> *said
21:35 < Grum> yeah, because its mcp, which is purely for minecraft
21:37 < Grum> you can in theory learn how to use fernflower (which is what mcp itself uses) to decompile
21:37 < Krenair> IIRC MCP does sometimes manage to decompile modded jars
21:37 < Krenair> but it's not supported
21:39 < DigiDuncan> My 6yo brother says: What's up, guy who makes minecraft?"
21:39 < DigiDuncan> I suppose he's refering to Grum.
21:39 < Grum> DigiDuncan: hi! :D
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21:58 < DigiDuncan> if i could figure out what .class the size cap is stored in, I could easily modify it....
21:58 < DigiDuncan> brb, reinstalling eclpise and MCP.
21:59 < DigiDuncan> and Forge and Gulliver into a jar...
21:59 < DigiDuncan> god I wish this was easier.
21:59 < DigiDuncan> :P
22:00 < DigiDuncan> drat, time for my diabeetus shot.
22:01 < DigiDuncan> brb.
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22:02 < dav1d> dex2jar, jd-gui ftw
22:02 < dav1d> haxx all the apks
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22:05 < DigiDuncan> back
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22:42 < Thinkofdeath> Is the wiki bot broken?
22:54 < dav1d> well it is still here
22:55 < Thinkofdeath> I made an edit a while ago
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23:32 < TkTech> Not-001 doesn't really break but wikibot that feeds it does.
23:33 < TkTech> Thinkofdeath, https://github.com/TkTech/WikiBot it's moronically simple.
23:33 < Thinkofdeath> ah
23:35 < TkTech> Kickin' it in the butt. It'll start working again in a few.
23:36 < Thinkofdeath> On a side note: There seems to be a lot of new accounts created over the past few days, they're all unused
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23:40 < TkTech> Don't worry about, they're just spam accounts.
23:40 < Thinkofdeath> Guessed so
23:42 < TkTech> Bah, can't keep my connection open long enough to slap the bot.
23:42 < TkTech> Damn rural wifi.
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23:47 < TkTech> Wait what, someone forked wikibot and actually made commits?
23:50 < TkTech> Thinkofdeath, Alright, should be up and running again.
23:51 < Thinkofdeath> Cool, thanks
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01:27 < TkTech> Grum, Fernflower still breaks a lot of things.
01:28 < TkTech> Grum, And can generate some really, really weird statements.
01:28 < TkTech> JD-GUI's at least smart enough to clean up a TABLESWITCH
01:32 < SinZ> JD-GUI is the only one I really use
01:33 < SinZ> helped quite abit to see what the new launcher actually does
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08:45 < Grum> TkTech: i tried jdgui on some of those classes, it failed horridly
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11:54 < pbunny> **:58:41       TkTech | No reason to keep the entire map in memory.
11:54 < pbunny> why?
11:54 < pbunny> there is no other way to have realtime world
11:55 < pbunny> **:18:29         Grum | one chunk in your system is ~680kb?
11:55 < pbunny> yes, i decided to stored them uncompressed for performance reasons
11:55 < pbunny> 10000x10000x256 world is enough for everybody
11:56 < pbunny> well unless there's thousands of players, but that's PvP server anyway
11:58 < pbunny> and if somebody will go to 15000x27000, he will actually be on 5000x7000 as world is looped
12:02 < jast> chances are a looped world will look spectacularly ugly
12:02 < jast> why not just put a wall of bedrock at the border
12:05 < pbunny> ugly? why?
12:05 < pbunny> if it was 100x100 world, i would have agreed
12:06 < pbunny> jast: nothing can be uglier than wall of bedrock
12:07 < SinZ> looping would just be confusing for the client
12:07 < pbunny> SinZ: rare people ever go beside 10000 blocks
12:08 < SinZ> I do
12:08 < pbunny> and even more rare remember the landscape as it was 10000 blocks ago :)
12:08 < pbunny> SinZ: Earth is round too
12:08 < pbunny> does it confuse you?
12:08 < SinZ> minecraft isn't round
12:08 < pbunny> my is
12:09 < Grum> last server i played on my house was at 27000, 15000 orso :/
12:09 < pbunny> SinZ: btw, this will effectively prevent world oversize by somebody going to 1000000 blocks or stuff
12:09 < pbunny> he will just go in loops without noticing
12:09 < Grum> not really, as you just said you requred 256gb to have this in memory
12:09 < Grum> that qualifies as 'way to fucking big' ;)
12:09 < pbunny> Grum: yeah, but world won't exceed that
12:10 < pbunny> entities number is still a concern though
12:10 < Grum> also 680kb/chunk is ~11bytes of info per block
12:10 < Grum> seems quite too much
12:10 < pbunny> but they aren't as memory hogging
12:10 < Grum> everything is cpu-nogginh
12:10 < pbunny> Grum: that's what mc protocol map format uses
12:10 < Grum> *hogging even la
12:10 < Grum> pbunny: no its not? :/
12:10 < pbunny> Grum: i will have 2 16-core cpus running at 3Ghz
12:10 < pbunny> Grum: omg
12:11 < pbunny> Grum: http://wiki.vg/SMP_Map_Format
12:11 < pbunny> btw, i approximated 10000x10000
12:11 < pbunny> because i assume entities will also take some RAM
12:11 < pbunny> a block is 614Kb iirc
12:11 < pbunny> a chunk *
12:11 < pbunny> 16x16x256
12:12 < Grum> not sure where you are getting all this extra space from :/
12:12 < pbunny> entities, metaentities
12:12 < edk> he's getting it by being an idiot
12:12 < pbunny> ...
12:12 < Grum> a block has: 1 byte of type, 1 nible of meta, 1 nibble of extra meta, 1 nibble of blockllight, 1 nibble of skylight and then a heightmap and a biomemap (both 256bytes)
12:13 < pbunny> block doesn't have a biomemap.
12:13 < Grum> so that is 3 bytes per block + 512bytes
12:13 < SinZ> actually...
12:13 < SinZ> every block does, but usually ignores it iirc
12:13 < Grum> which means 197120 bytes of info
12:13 < pbunny> Grum: http://dump.bitcheese.net/texts/ofejyfi/C
12:13 < Grum> no, every column does
12:13 < pbunny> that's the structure client uses
12:14 < pbunny> 1 to 1
12:14 < pbunny> i compress this and send to it in 0x33 and 0x38
12:14 < Grum> its just 197120 bytes of uncompressed data excluding entities
12:14 < pbunny> no.
12:14 < pbunny> please see the link i poster
12:14 < pbunny> posted
12:15 < pbunny> and get a sizeof() or something
12:15 < Grum> .....
12:15  * SinZ doesnt think pbunny knows who Grum is
12:15 < pbunny> its about 614Kb
12:15 < pbunny> SinZ: who is he>
12:15 < Grum> then you are doing it wrong
12:15 < Grum> fact
12:15 < pbunny> Grum: well clients accept such struct
12:15 < Grum> i'm one of the guys who actually makes minecraft >.>
12:15 < pbunny> in 0x33 and 0x38
12:15 < SinZ> ^
12:15 < pbunny> ...
12:15 < edk> pbunny: are you aware of the requirements for the packing of a struct in C?
12:15 < pbunny> edk: packing?
12:15 < Grum> you seem to fail packing
12:15 < edk> pbunny: there aren't any
12:15 < Grum> i am not sure why you have '8' in there either
12:16 < pbunny> i just deflate it and sent to client
12:16 < pbunny> and it reads it correctly
12:16 < pbunny> so structure is compatible with client
12:16 < pbunny> light works too etc
12:16 < Grum> that means little
12:16 < pbunny> Grum: 8 is because these are 4-bit arrays
12:16 < pbunny> every byte stores 2 values
12:16 < edk> i thought you didn't own a copy of minecraft, pbunny :P
12:16 < Grum> 1) blocktype is not 16bits
12:16 < Grum> 2) metadata is not 8 bits
12:16 < pbunny> Grum: blocktype is 8 bits
12:16 < Grum> 3) light is not 8 bits
12:16 < Grum> skylight is not 8 bits
12:17 < pbunny> Grum: do you understand the difference between bit and byte?
12:17 < pbunny> do you know syntax of C?
12:17 < Grum> do you? O.o
12:17  * edk chortles
12:17 < pbunny> yes.
12:17 < Grum> nope
12:17 < pbunny> do you?
12:17 < pbunny> go code some java then
12:17 < pbunny> we code serious stuff here
12:17 < edk> pbunny: you talk about C, yet you think using #define to write every function is a good idea
12:17 < SinZ> he does, for mojang
12:17 < Grum> anyhow, you are doing it highly flawed if you are using ~680kb for a chunk
12:17 < pbunny> SinZ: ok, but he obviously has no clue about C
12:17 < Grum> the data is only ~180kb big
12:17 < pbunny> i don't see why he keeps arguing with me, failing to even read struct format properly
12:18 < Grum> erm 192kb
12:18 < Grum> pbunny: i dont care what you write down for a struct
12:18 < pbunny> Grum: why client accept 614Kb then?
12:18 < Grum> because its not correct :)
12:18 < Grum> why not?
12:18 < edk> just for pedantic reasons, are we talking in K or Ki here?
12:18 < Grum> its kinda friendly
12:18 < pbunny> Grum: it reads it correctly.
12:18 < Grum> it reads a lot correctly
12:18 < pbunny> every byte of it
12:18 < Grum> doesnt mean you are sending it the right amount of stuff :p
12:18 < pbunny> client reads data correctly -> doesn't mean i send it correctly?
12:19 < Grum> no
12:19 < Grum> means you send something it reads
12:19 < pbunny> i tested every part of strycture - blocktype, metadata, light, skylight, biome
12:19 < pbunny> everything is working in client correctly
12:19 < pbunny> he reads what i send
12:19 < pbunny> and it takes 614Kb uncompressed space
12:20 < pbunny> obviously you calculated something wrong
12:20 < Grum> pasted from our codebase:
12:20 < Grum>     // This is the biggest a chunk can be
12:20 < Grum>     public static final int MAX_CHUNK_DATA_LENGTH = 196864;
12:21 < pbunny> aaah
12:21 < Grum> obviously this normally says: (16 * 16 * 8) * (6 * LevelChunk.NUM_SECTIONS) + 16 * 16;
12:21 < pbunny> in minecraft, a chunk is 16x16x16
12:21 < Grum> but that is hard to read
12:21 < pbunny> my chunk is 16x16x256
12:21 < Grum> no ?
12:21 < pbunny> i call a chunkcolumn a chunk
12:21 < Grum> so do we
12:21 < pbunny> because i store data by chunkcolumns
12:21 < Grum> so do we, just internally we slice it up into sections
12:21 < Grum> we communicate in the full thing
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12:22 < pbunny> Grum: are you an agent of mojang to promote wrong information here to stop others from developing something better than vanilla mc server?
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12:22 < Grum> i'm an employee of mojang browsing through the codebase
12:23 < pbunny> ok. i prefer the wiki and practical experience to some employees of mojang advises (which doesn't correlate with results of my tests)
12:23 < SinZ> ...
12:23 < Grum> you can do whatever, it is just ..... not right :P
12:23 < pbunny> only java is right?
12:23 < Grum> ok. how much space does a single block-id take with you?
12:23 < Grum> how many bits of data per block?
12:23 < pbunny> 8 bits
12:24 < Grum> how is that reflected in that struct?
12:24 < Grum> 		unsigned char blocktype[16][16][16][16]; 
12:24 < Grum> where is the '8' ?
12:24 < pbunny> unsigned char is 8 bits in C
12:24 < pbunny> =[
12:24 < Grum> ok
12:24 < edk> wrong
12:24 < Grum> char in java is 16bit
12:24 < pbunny> ok, java sucks
12:24 < Grum> unsigned (whaaat!)
12:24 < edk> unsigned char is an implementation-defined length which is the minimum size of data addressable by the system
12:24 < Grum> not really
12:24 < edk> go learn C
12:24 < pbunny> edk: yeah, sure
12:24 < pbunny> must most commonly its 8bit
12:25 < Grum> dont people use uint8 to define this without any doubt?
12:25 < edk> Grum: C doesn't define whether "char" by itself is signed or not, for some reason
12:25 < pbunny> on my system (which code is working on) its 8bit too
12:25 < edk> C99 added exact-width types for pretty much this reason (uint8_t and friends) but pbunny obviously hasn't heard of them
12:25 < pbunny> i know about them
12:25 < Grum> ok so explain the numbers in the array construct
12:25 < pbunny> i'm doing other things now, i will refactor when i will have nothing to do anymore :p
12:25 < pbunny> Grum: so...
12:25 < Grum> i assume: the max of x,y,z and amount of 16^3 sections?
12:25 < pbunny> unsigned char blocktype[16][16][16][16];
12:26 < pbunny> that means - it has 16 16x16x16 chunk parts
12:26 < pbunny> placed vertically
12:26 < Grum> and 16 of them
12:26 < Grum> ok, so now: 		unsigned char metadata[16][16][16][8]; 
12:26 < pbunny> every 16x16x16 chunk has 16 16x16 parts
12:26 < Grum> did you just 'halve' that last 16 so you get nibbles? ;)
12:27 < pbunny> yes
12:27 < pbunny> http://dump.bitcheese.net/texts/enacese/C
12:27 < pbunny> that's how i set them
12:28 < pbunny> first is for 8bit data, second - for 4bit
12:28 < pbunny> should be obvious :)
12:28 < Grum> so in fact the total size in bits is: 8*16*16*16*16+8*16*16*16*8+8*16*16*16*8+8*16*16*16*8+16*16
12:28 < Grum> which conveniently is 163872 bytes ...
12:28 < Grum> again, nowhere near your 'sizeof' being 680kb
12:29 < Grum> also you are forgetting the possible 'extra' nibble for blockids > 256
12:29 < Grum> and the heightmap (which might not be send to the client) -- but anyhow, this again supports my numbers
12:29 < Grum> or sorry, THE numbers ;)
12:29 < Grum> as i'm not just shaking them from my ass
12:29 < pbunny> Grum: um, you calculated it all wrong...
12:30 < pbunny> 8*16*16*16*16+8*16*16*16*8+8*16*16*16*8+8*16*16*16*8+16*16 is 1310976 =[
12:30 < Grum> BITS
12:30 < pbunny> and even expression is totally wrong
12:30 < pbunny> Grum: its actually 16*16*16*16 + 16*16*16*8*3 + 16*16
12:30 < pbunny> =[
12:30 < Grum> same difference?
12:30 < pbunny> you skipped math at school or something?
12:30 < pbunny> Grum: 16*16*16*16 + 16*16*16*8*3 + 16*16 is 164096 bytes.
12:30 < pbunny> try it =[
12:31 < pbunny> sorry, we have a troll here
12:31 < Grum> 8*16*16*16*16 + (8*16*16*16*8) + (8*16*16*16*8) +(8*16*16*16*8) +16*16
12:31 < Grum> learn to fucking read; that is what it says but just written out flat
12:31 < pbunny> Grum: you forgot to add *8 to last 16*16
12:31 < pbunny> =[
12:31 < Grum> true!
12:32 < pbunny> Grum: and if you divide that by 8 then, you will get 164Kb =[[
12:32 < Grum> but still, you forgot to add another 8*16*16*16 for the 'extra id-data'
12:32 < Grum> which is how much away from your '680kb sizeof' ?
12:32 < pbunny> wait.
12:32 < pbunny> i meant 164Kb then
12:32 < Grum> oh, now for fun; add another 32kb for the missing data you have
12:32 < Grum> lets say that ends up at 196kb
12:33 < Grum> 12:19:42 < pbunny> and it takes 614Kb uncompressed space
12:33 < Grum> 12:20:23 < pbunny> obviously you calculated something wrong
12:33 < pbunny> Grum: a typo.
12:33 < pbunny> 164, not 614
12:33 < Grum> sure >.>
12:33 < pbunny> :)
12:34 < edk> ~$ gcc -std=c99 pbunny_is_an_idiot.c 
12:34 < edk> ~$ ./a.out
12:34 < edk> 164096
12:34 < pbunny> edk: if you scroll the logs back enough, you will see i always mentioned 164Kb
12:34 < edk> (sizeof on your struct)
12:34 < Grum> i just did copy/paste the only time you mentioned any size >.>
12:34 < pbunny> 614 was a misremember
12:35 < Grum> which was what this whole pointless discussion was based on
12:35 < pbunny> :)
12:35 < Grum> anyhow, you are forgetting data
12:35 < l4mRh4X0r> I haven't seen any 164 from you, pbunny 
12:35 < Grum> might be optional, still forgetting
12:35 < pbunny> l4mRh4X0r: probably not old enough
12:35 < l4mRh4X0r> maybe.
12:36 < Grum> aaanyhow, you will eventually end up with having too little cpu to handle all updates to the world
12:36 < Grum> however small they might be
12:36 < pbunny> why?
12:36 < l4mRh4X0r> because exponential increase
12:36 < pbunny> any exponential increase == too little cpu?
12:36 < l4mRh4X0r> I love exponentials curves, but they suck for computer algorithms.
12:37 < edk> but he's got two 16-core CPUs! everything will be fine!
12:37 < Grum> pbunny: you are just having a fun project. nothing that will actually be usable by anyone
12:37 < edk> also his functions are written as #defines for extra speed
12:37 < Grum> yeah
12:37 < l4mRh4X0r> "extra speed"
12:37 < pbunny> Grum: it is already usable by vanilla mc client
12:37 < edk> l4mRh4X0r: yeah
12:37 < Grum> pbunny: yeah, and how many people have a 256gb 32cores server lying around?
12:38 < pbunny> Grum: the code isn't for public usage
12:38 < l4mRh4X0r> Grum, you'd be amazed.
12:38 < pbunny> its closed source
12:38 < Grum> 256gb ram l4mRh4X0r ;)
12:38 < Grum> pbunny: for now >:P
12:38 < l4mRh4X0r> I know
12:38 < edk> someone needs to read http://www.iso-9899.info/wiki/Why_not_macros
12:38 < pbunny> Grum: everybody will have 256Gb and 32 cores in 10 years
12:38 < pbunny> probably even iphone
12:38 < Grum> well, in that case, do release it :P
12:39 < Grum> also i'd still be interested in 'fast' and 'flawless' lighting algorithm
12:39 < Grum> you'll have to implement it eventually
12:39 < pbunny> edk: in case you aren't aware, i am making second version of server from scratch and i use functions there
12:39 < pbunny> Grum: lighting isn't most important part in PvP server
12:39 < Grum> the one time you showed code the only thing i could see was red flags
12:39 < Grum> pbunny: lighting is super important in minecraft
12:39 < pbunny> why?
12:39 < Grum> it is *the* game-mechanic that controls mobspawn
12:39 < Grum> and plantgrowth
12:40 < Grum> if you don't have it you do not have minecraft
12:40 < SinZ> even classic had a lighting system
12:40 < SinZ> kinda
12:41 < pbunny> Grum: mobs will behave different on my server
12:41 < pbunny> it won't spawn or despawn
12:41 < pbunny> it will spawn initially and then populate and evolve
12:41 < pbunny> build stuff etc
12:41 < edk> good luck writing the ai
12:42 < Grum> god 31 of your 32 cpu's will be grinding AI and pathing then :p
12:42 < Grum> good luck!
12:42 < pbunny> plantgrowth can be simplified until i will have time to make it properly
12:42 < pbunny> i.e. grow anywhere
12:42 < pbunny> on right surface
12:42 < pbunny> Grum: ai won't be that intensive
12:42 < edk> heh
12:42 < Grum> hehe
12:42 < pbunny> except for bosses
12:42 < pbunny> which will use neural networks to control lesses mobs in war with each other
12:42 < Grum> you will have millions of mobs to control
12:43 < edk> vanilla's ai is pretty intensive with lots of mobs, and all it does is fairly simple pathfinding
12:43 < l4mRh4X0r> All I can say is: Good luck, and link me when you're finished :P
12:43 < edk> inb4 "that's because it's java"
12:43 < pbunny> Grum: not right from the start
12:43 < Grum> i ever find your server online, i will explore every single chunk of it
12:43 < pbunny> edk: thats because of java
12:43 < Grum> and watch it crumble
12:43 < pbunny> :)
12:43 < pbunny> you're welcome
12:43 < Grum> will be hilarious :)
12:44 < l4mRh4X0r> Grum, and don't forget authentication exploits :D
12:44 < pbunny> ?
12:44 < edk> Grum's a mojang employee, presumably he an log himself in as anyone if he wants to
12:44 < edk> s/an/can/
12:45 < l4mRh4X0r> Yeah, but where's the fun in that?
12:45 < pbunny> edk: he can't
12:45 < pbunny> my server uses itas own auth
12:45 < SinZ> ...
12:45 < pbunny> (ingame auth via /login )
12:45 < l4mRh4X0r> Oh, even better
12:45 < l4mRh4X0r> DoS, here I come :P
12:45 < pbunny> so mojang employers won't cheat there :)
12:45 < jast> pbunny: Earth may be spherical, but then again its terrain is periodic. if you don't want to figure out a parametric periodic terrain generator, you'll end up with something that has harsh breaks at each loop boundary.
12:46 < SinZ> so, let me get this straight
12:46 < pbunny> jast: don't see problems in smoothing the edges
12:46 < SinZ> your minecraft server doesn't run off the normal login servers, so you don't need to pay for mc
12:46 < SinZ> and you haven't brought minecraft
12:46 < pbunny> ?
12:46 < pbunny> i don't use mc client
12:46 < l4mRh4X0r> bought*
12:46 < pbunny> testers do
12:46 -!- Calinou [~Calinou@unaffiliated/calinou] has joined #mcdevs
12:46 < edk> earth had the advantage of being made out of stuff, the "algorithm" that generated it had one shot to do the whole thing
12:47 < edk> not progressively generate more of it as you explore
12:47 < l4mRh4X0r> edk, he's gonna have everything loaded anyway
12:47 < l4mRh4X0r> So why not generate everything at once :P
12:47 < pbunny> i will not pregenerate world i think
12:48 < Grum> < edk> Grum's a mojang employee, presumably he an log himself in as anyone if he wants to <-- actually i cant
12:48 < SinZ> Really, no backdoors in login.minecraft.net
12:48 < SinZ> shame
12:48 < l4mRh4X0r> ^
12:49 < Grum> i cant even lookup any details of anyone :P
12:49 < Grum> nor do i want to be able to do that
12:49 < jast> good thing, too
12:49 < edk> fair enough
12:49 < Grum> yeah its not needed for anyone except the webteam
12:49 < Grum> so .... ./care! :D
12:49 < SinZ> Could, say... Marc_IRL do it?
12:49 < Grum> (also i get to bitch at people when it breaks :D)
12:49 < Grum> SinZ: login as someone else? no, no-one can unless you have access to the auth-servers caches
12:49 < l4mRh4X0r> You like that, don't you? :P
12:50 < Grum> and insert a session manually
12:50 < edk> *bitch*
12:50 < edk> why does alsamixer work in db, but the thing at the bottom of the sliders is in %
12:50 < Grum> so webtaem again
12:50  * SinZ doesn't piss off mollstam
12:50 < Grum> obviously passwords are stored nowhere 
12:50 < Grum> so there is no way to actually login as someone and we didnt make some magical bypass
12:51 < pbunny> Grum: you can make it anytime though
12:51 < Grum> not really
12:51 < pbunny> but you will not get to my server that way :p
12:51 < pbunny> its more secure
12:51 < Grum> its not
12:51 < l4mRh4X0r> edk, because people wanna know both?
12:51 < Grum> our system is not insecure in any way, so whatever you have cannot be 'more secure' :P
12:51 < l4mRh4X0r> Or some people want to know %, others want to know dB
12:52 < edk> l4mRh4X0r: but pressing up and down goes in 1dB increments
12:52 < pbunny> Grum: my server doesn't trust login.minecraft.net, so the latter can't exploit it
12:52 < l4mRh4X0r> I really only look at the dB anyway
12:52 < edk> l4mRh4X0r: even though the display on each slider is in %
12:52 < l4mRh4X0r> Oh, mine goes less regularly
12:52 < Grum> pbunny: your system would never ever look at login.minecraft.net
12:52 < Grum> if you are, you are doing it wrong :P
12:52 < pbunny> Grum: i mean mc auth system
12:52 < edk> after some point it changes to 2dB
12:53 < Grum> pbunny: this means people can login with whatever name on your server
12:53 < l4mRh4X0r> Mines does 0.75, then 1.25, then 1.75
12:53 < Grum> and you do some sort of local auth
12:53 < l4mRh4X0r> Or something similar.
12:53 < pbunny> Grum: yes
12:53 < Grum> easily ddosable
12:53 < pbunny> how?
12:53 < l4mRh4X0r> pbunny, so you mean session.minecraft.net
12:53 < Grum> you have to send data to the client
12:54 < Grum> you only have finite bandwidth
12:54 < l4mRh4X0r> pbunny, make 1000000 connections per second
12:54 < Grum> i have infinite clients :P
12:54 < l4mRh4X0r> Easy
12:54 < l4mRh4X0r> I can just discard unneeded data.
12:54 < l4mRh4X0r> You can't.
12:54 < Grum> or slow read it ;)
12:54 < l4mRh4X0r> Well, you can, but you don't *have* unneeded data
12:54 < zutto> or my favorite, just ignore all data
12:54 < Grum> slowreading is more effective
12:55 < edk> i prefer to discard only needed data
12:55 < l4mRh4X0r> what about noreading
12:55 < edk> and process the unneeded
12:55 < jast> servers that ignore all data or slow-read all data are the best
12:55 < Grum> l4mRh4X0r: then your connection will idle ;P
12:55 < l4mRh4X0r> Setting your window to 0
12:55 < Grum> -1!
12:55 < l4mRh4X0r> I heard the OS caches data when you send packets with window 0
12:55 < Grum> haha
12:55 < pbunny> Grum: i didn't get it
12:55 < l4mRh4X0r> Might be mistaken though
12:55 < Grum> pbunny: didn't get what?
12:55 < pbunny> how is local auth more vulnerable to connection ddos than mc auth?
12:56 < edk> jast: my favourite are servers that synflood you if you try to connect to them
12:56 < Grum> because in order to keep the client in the world you have to send it data
12:56 < pbunny> the latter is actually more vulnerable
12:56 < Calinou> hello security talk
12:56 < l4mRh4X0r> With MC auth you can quickly filter out bad logins
12:56 < Grum> pbunny: not really
12:56 < pbunny> Grum: this is true for any server
12:56 < Calinou> suddenly: xauth
12:56 < Grum> pbunny: you send far more data when you connect than the current servers
12:56 < l4mRh4X0r> i.e. you have to actually have accounts to DDOS
12:56 < pbunny> Grum: why?
12:56 < Grum> the people have to get 'in the game'
12:56 < pbunny> yes, so?
12:57 < pbunny> true for any server
12:57 < l4mRh4X0r> And don't tell me that you'll let them spasm until they login
12:57 < l4mRh4X0r> No
12:57 < Grum> no, mc auth is done before you get in the game
12:57 < l4mRh4X0r> pbunny, I can log onto your server with accounts that don't exist
12:57 < l4mRh4X0r> I can't on servers that use MC auth
12:57 < pbunny> Grum: you can ddos any server without bothering with mc auth....
12:57 < pbunny> using custom bots
12:57 < l4mRh4X0r> pbunny, they'd need to have valid accounts
12:57 < pbunny> and if server uses mc auth, it will even have to make its own connects
12:57 < Grum> yes but your system that much easier
12:57 < pbunny> for every client
12:57 < pbunny> Grum: why?
12:57 < l4mRh4X0r> checking with session.mc is way cheaper than sending data
12:58 < Grum> because: scroll up 15 lines and read again
12:58 < l4mRh4X0r> sending chunk data, that is
12:58 < pbunny> l4mRh4X0r: i can filter by ip
12:58 < zutto> guys siriusly
12:58 < l4mRh4X0r> And making gravity calculations etc.
12:58 < edk> mc login is going to change anyway, iirc
12:58 < edk> to use crypto
12:58 < zutto> stop nitpicking on such small thing
12:58 < pbunny> if its 100000 pc botnet, nothing will save me anyway
12:58 < Grum> edk: mmm no
12:58 < l4mRh4X0r> zutto, but pbunny is kind of an idiot.
12:58 < l4mRh4X0r> So that's why we do
12:59 < edk> it's not? someone told me that
12:59 < Grum> use macros to make it faster!
12:59 < SinZ> Grum: what about the fancy launcher
12:59 < edk> that's a good idea!
12:59 < edk> there are totally no problems with that
12:59 < Grum> SinZ: what about it?
12:59 < SinZ> with the tokens and stuff
12:59 < Grum> that will just provide you a login token
12:59 < l4mRh4X0r> Suddenly: ipsec connection to the login servers.
12:59 < pbunny> l4mRh4X0r: nothing will save a server against DDOS from large botnet
12:59 < Grum> will let you auth with our servers, not play the game
12:59 < l4mRh4X0r> pbunny, true
12:59 < Grum> you'll still get a session token like normal
12:59 < Grum> you just dont have a password anymore :P
12:59 < l4mRh4X0r> Except with your server, you don't even need a large botnet
13:00 < Grum> pbunny: actually, not having an internet connection does !
13:00 < l4mRh4X0r> oh, good one.
13:00 < zutto> null routing is always way to go
13:00 < edk> you don't really need a large botnet to ddos someone anyway. you just need a few servers with a lot of bandwidth and nothing to stop them source spoofing
13:00 < Grum> you cannot nullroute a proper ddos while still letting norma clients in
13:00 < pbunny> edk: um, ISPs block source spoofing for like 15 years iirc
13:00 < zutto> Grum: indeed you cant
13:00 < edk> that's incorrect pbunny 
13:00 < Grum> yeah, not some weird iranian ones ;P
13:00 < edk> plenty of servers can do it
13:01 < Grum> there are quite some AS's that still announce bogons
13:01 < l4mRh4X0r> pbunny, then why are there still DNS reflection attacks :P
13:01 < edk> and TCP sequence prediction
13:01 < Grum> because of bad administrators that do not filter their outbound traffic for 'sources that are only from within their network'
13:01 < edk> Grum: quite
13:01 < pbunny> ok, anyway, i would rather accept a risk of being DDOSed by botnet of 1000 machines than to trust session.minecraft.net
13:01 < Grum> which is hilarious obviously :P
13:02 < Grum> pbunny: why? session is quite to be trusted :)
13:02 < l4mRh4X0r> 1000 machines?
13:02 < l4mRh4X0r> Not needed.
13:02 < pbunny> Grum: trust noone.
13:02 < l4mRh4X0r> 10 machines, easily.
13:02 < edk> except pbunny!
13:02 < pbunny> l4mRh4X0r: my server can handle 10 logins.
13:02 < Grum> pbunny: o.O
13:02 < edk> one machine per login?
13:02 < pbunny> if they logout/login, they will be banned by ip or something
13:02 < Grum> what if they have a timeout? :(
13:02 < Grum> so mean to ban them
13:02 < Grum> but also that is a ddos :p
13:02 < l4mRh4X0r> Oh, I'm playing on a crappy connection.
13:02 < Grum> you do not have the infinite memory to ban 'all teh people' :p
13:02 < l4mRh4X0r> Crap, I got banned for having a crappy connection.
13:03 < pbunny> Grum: timeouts arte easily differentiated from DDOS
13:03 < pbunny> are *
13:03 < edk> Grum: honestly I think the best way to DoS would be to just let people play on his server
13:03 < Grum> are they?
13:03 < l4mRh4X0r> pbunny, not when done right.
13:03 < Grum> edk: explore the world :p
13:03 < Grum> drop water everwhere
13:03 < pbunny> wait, bans are not needed. just limit connects/second per ip
13:03 < Grum> then put items in said water and make loops ;)
13:03 < edk> pbunny: so now you need a table containing every ip
13:03 < pbunny> Grum: that problem exists for every server out there
13:03 < Grum> pbunny: more for yours
13:04 < pbunny> only optimization can help
13:04 < pbunny> Grum: no.
13:04 < pbunny> my physics is pretty light-weight
13:04 < Grum> yes because you do not unload areas :)
13:04 < edk> Grum: don't worry, he'l have a thread per physics entity
13:04 < pbunny> edk: no.
13:04 < Grum> hunderedmillionbillionthreads
13:04 < edk> pbunny: i'm glad you gave up on that idea
13:04 < edk> what are you doing instead?
13:04 < zutto> pbunny: you wont mitigate ddos by limiting connections/ip, lol
13:05 < ShaRose> I wonder if anyone's wrote a level 7 dos attack for minecraft
13:06 < edk> there used to be lots
13:06 < zutto> ShaRose: i have written stress testing tool for minecraft while ago
13:06 < pbunny> Grum: players can drop stuff/redstone/etc on any server
13:06 < pbunny> chunk unloading won't save it
13:06 < pbunny> because players will be there
13:06 < pbunny> server won't unload chunk when there's players
13:06 < edk> but players aren't everywhere at once, typically
13:06 < ShaRose> zutto level 7 specifically, not level 3-4
13:07 < zutto> yeah, not level 7 specifically :|
13:07 < zutto> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2aDiD5F97Y
13:07 < ShaRose> level 7 is like slowloris
13:07 < zutto> bored nights equal to fancy testing tools to filter all bukkits silly plugins
13:07 < pbunny> edk: even though the situation of chunk unable to keep-up with world ticks can happen, the worst that it will result in is chunk slowdown
13:08 < pbunny> i.e. if too much redstone stuff, it will just run more slowly
13:08 -!- Guest97501 [~exe@85.28.181.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
13:08 < ShaRose> siiiiick
13:08 < pbunny> soon enough the slow chunk will be placed in separate thread and be nicely isolated
13:08 < ShaRose> took longer than expected but drive bender responded with a patch
13:09 < pbunny> and admins be notified :p
13:09 < edk> sounds like a solid plan
13:09 < edk> i always think placing things in separate threads is a good way to stop them hammering the cpu
13:09 < l4mRh4X0r> Because admins all know how your server works, technically.
13:10 < pbunny> they will hammer, but other chunks will iterate independently
13:10 < jast> it will still hammer I/O but whatever
13:10 < jast> I/O is free, right guys
13:10 < l4mRh4X0r> Nah, he doens't do IO
13:10 < pbunny> I/O is rarely the bottleneck
13:10 < l4mRh4X0r> Everything is loaded into memory.
13:10 < pbunny> i mean RAM I/O
13:10 < edk> free love, free money, free I/O
13:10 < jast> yeah, and if the server crashes things just start over
13:10 < jast> backup the world? screw that
13:10 < pbunny> jast: ever heard of term "periodical world saves"?
13:10 < pbunny> asynchronous
13:10 < l4mRh4X0r> No, his server doesn't crash
13:11 < l4mRh4X0r> That's ridiculous.
13:11 < jast> oh, I see
13:11 < pbunny> i.e. save 1 chunk, save second, etc
13:11 < jast> and periodic saves of a few 100 gigs are obviously free, too
13:11 < l4mRh4X0r> Yeah
13:11 -!- mulka_ [~quassel@quassel.woboq.de] has joined #mcdevs
13:11 < pbunny> jast: i can just continuously save it by chunk
13:11 < pbunny> the more chunks - the more rare world save becomes
13:11 < pbunny> still in acceptable range
13:11 < edk> pbunny: making threads will save you as long as you have physical threads available
13:12 < jast> so... the more chunks, the less guarantee that the world will still be up-to-date after a crash
13:12 < l4mRh4X0r> Sounds like a solid plan
13:12 < edk> once you get past that point spinning things out into threads doesn't help you
13:12 < edk> except by adding to the concurrency problem
13:12 < pbunny> jast: btw, i will use RAID of RAM-based SSDs
13:12 < pbunny> I/O quite fast there
13:12 < jast> edk: his server has 512 cores, don't you know
13:12 -!- mulka [~quassel@quassel.woboq.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
13:12 < pbunny> and non-volatile
13:12 < jast> no wait, it's actually one core per chunk
13:12 < pbunny> don't be ridiculous
13:13 < jast> just level-matching
13:13 < pbunny> with yourself?
13:13 < pbunny> please try to be serious.
13:14 < edk> says the guy writing a minecraft server that can only work on a server with 256GB of ram
13:14 < pbunny> no, it can work on any server
13:14 < pbunny> world size isn't fixed
13:14 < l4mRh4X0r> Oh of course
13:14 < pbunny> just limit it to something like 2500x2500 and 4Gb is enough
13:14 < l4mRh4X0r> But what if I want a world of 24000x24000?
13:14 < pbunny> l4mRh4X0r: then you should get some medical attention
13:14 < l4mRh4X0r> Works fine on 4 GiB with vanilla
13:15 < pbunny> l4mRh4X0r: vanilla doesn't work.
13:15 < pbunny> only several chunks work there
13:15 < pbunny> everything else is frozen
13:15 < edk> thousands of servers running vanilla say otherwise
13:15 < l4mRh4X0r> Of course
13:15 < edk> yeah, duuuh
13:15 < l4mRh4X0r> Who needs updates where there's nothing to update?
13:15 <+md_5> why are we arguing with pbunny again
13:15 < pbunny> edk: thousands of servers are ran by schoolboys that want to look cool
13:15 < pbunny> are you one of them?
13:15 <+md_5> we have already established he is insane
13:15 < edk> oh yeah, forgot
13:15 < l4mRh4X0r> md_5, because it's fun to see what he comes up with.
13:15 < l4mRh4X0r> IMO
13:15 < pbunny> l4mRh4X0r: there is always something to update
13:16 < l4mRh4X0r> Nope.
13:16 < edk> pbunny: yes, i'm 14 and i run a server because i want to look cool
13:16 <+md_5>  keeping the entire map in ram, with full ticking and AI logic, and using epoll() based networking with 2 threads per connection, and thread per chunk, and writing in header files to beat gcc are all good things to do
13:16 < pbunny> l4mRh4X0r: it is ridiculous that furnaces stop burning after all players leave
13:16 < pbunny> isn't it?
13:16 < edk> minecraft servers are pretty much the next smoking
13:16 < ShaRose> amazon why would you ask if I want to buy something I have had preordered for weeks
13:16 < edk> amirite?
13:16 < pbunny> md_5: i use 1 thread for connections now
13:16 < ShaRose> but yeah pbunny would your server easily support http://www.planetminecraft.com/project/the-recreation-of-the-earth-11500-scale/
13:16 < l4mRh4X0r> pbunny, that's one of the few things that you wouldn't expect, no
13:16 < edk> it's seriously not like i could be arguing with you without being a schoolboy trying to look cool
13:17 < edk> everyone else arguing with you is one as well, btw
13:17 < pbunny> :)
13:17 < edk> you're the only person who is right, because everyone who disagrees with you is a schoolboy
13:17 < pbunny> edk: just don't tell me about these "thousands of servers"
13:17 < pbunny> they suck,.
13:17 -!- TomyLobo [~foo@91-64-168-142-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #mcdevs
13:17 < edk> they're good enough for everyone who plays minecraft
13:17 < edk> apart from you
13:17 < pbunny> ShaRose: if i ever will have the need to - sure
13:18 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
13:18 < pbunny> edk: thats because there's nothing better yet
13:18 < pbunny> at some point of time, msdos was fine for everybody
13:18 < edk> indeed. btw
13:18 <+md_5> all this big talk coming from a guy with a few months experience with C and claims to know all about the language
13:18 < edk> you do realise how close you are to the physical limit of how much ram you can have in one server?
13:18 < pbunny> md_5: i know enough
13:19 < l4mRh4X0r> pbunny, need I link the paste from ##c again?
13:19 < pbunny> edk: 10000x10000 is pretty close to reasonable limit a sane person would ever need
13:19 < ShaRose> pbunny the map I linked is a fair bit larger
13:19 < l4mRh4X0r> pbunny, I've played on plenty servers with a map bigger than that.
13:19 <+md_5> <pbunny> edk: 10000x10000 is pretty close to reasonable limit a sane person would ever need
13:19 < zutto> pbunny: why are you even planning to limit anyways?
13:19 <+md_5> never run a large server
13:20 < pbunny> l4mRh4X0r: no, the real map consisted only of several chunks
13:20 < pbunny> everything else was frozen
13:20 <+md_5> its more like 20-30k ^ 2
13:20 < pbunny> so the map wasn't big
13:20 < l4mRh4X0r> pbunny, Oh really?
13:20 < pbunny> it was a disguise
13:20 < pbunny> yeah
13:20 < l4mRh4X0r> Though it still stays the same when I leave and come back
13:20 < l4mRh4X0r> Can hardly call that imaginary
13:20 < pbunny> l4mRh4X0r: that resembles single player
13:21 < pbunny> doesn't it?
13:21 < pbunny> why not play single player then\
13:21 < edk> pbunny: you're an idiot
13:21 < l4mRh4X0r> Isn't multiplayer just single player with multiple layers?
13:21 < l4mRh4X0r> players*
13:21 < ShaRose> the map is like 31k
13:21 < edk> and i have to walk the dog. wait, no, i have to go to school, because i'm a schoolboy :D
13:21 < l4mRh4X0r> Also, do you call 100G of disk space imaginary?
13:21 < edk> well, whichever it is, have fun with this
13:21 < pbunny> l4mRh4X0r: true multiplayer is about having independent world, a part of which players are
13:22 < pbunny> i.e. this is true for any mmorpg
13:22 < pbunny> no sector freezes
13:22 < l4mRh4X0r> that's true for almost no mmorpg at all.
13:22 < zutto> whats this thing about 100GB of diskspace anyways?
13:22 < l4mRh4X0r> Unless you can prove me wrong, of course.
13:24 < pbunny> in any case, the idea of furnaces freezing when player leaves the area seems disgusting to me
13:24 < pbunny> this doesn't happen on my server
13:24 < l4mRh4X0r> And of course the solution is to keep everything loaded
13:24 < pbunny> yes, this is the only solution.
13:24 < l4mRh4X0r> If you insist.
13:24 < pbunny> unless you can magically make data iterate on hdd independently of cpu/ram/etc
13:24 < zutto> l4mRh4X0r: psh, going for performance instead of just blindly loading eveything is stupid!
13:24 < zutto> owait
13:25 < pbunny> zutto: performance shouldn't go at cost of functionality
13:25 < l4mRh4X0r> Anyway, I've had my daily dose of arguing with idiots, have a nice day :)
13:25 < zutto> pbunny: how long have you been programming, and how specialized are you on automation?
13:26 < pbunny> automation of what?
13:26 < zutto> cause theres _VERY_ simple solution that you can do without keeping everything constantly loaded
13:26 < pbunny> zutto: load/iterate/unload?
13:26 < zutto> automation of servers, server hardening updates, etc
13:26 < pbunny> what
13:26 < zutto> oh
13:26 < pbunny> my server is hard enough
13:26 < zutto> you're completly new to servers it seems
13:26 < pbunny> ...
13:26 < pbunny> ok boss
13:27 < zutto> keep learning, you'll eventually figure out what you're doing wrong right now
13:27 < pbunny> thanks sensei!
13:41 < ShaRose> pbunny said sensei! from now on I will make an effort to call him pbunny-chan
13:41 < jast> that makes sense
13:43 < ShaRose> not sure if actually understands the joke or is being sarcastic
13:44 < TkTech> Chan is the japanese suffix for females and children, IIRC?
13:44 < ShaRose> yes
13:44 < ShaRose> generally means it's 'cute'
13:45  * TkTech finds a female yakuza boss to try this out
13:46 < zutto> chan has nothing to do with cute
13:46 < zutto> and its not only females and children
13:46 < Grum> < l4mRh4X0r> And of course the solution is to keep everything loaded <-- i cant wait to see the IO stats of that server btw :p
13:46 < zutto> however, if you TkTech were planning to call yakuza boss with -chan, you'd end up being killed and disposed probably
13:46 < l4mRh4X0r> heh
13:46 < Grum> the amount it will be writing to disk is going to be horrendous
13:46 < pbunny> Grum: RAM IO?
13:47 < zutto> as its very insulting to call someone who has higher status with -chan
13:47 < pbunny> Grum: disk? why?
13:47 < Grum> because your complete world will keep changing
13:47 < pbunny> Grum: its in RAM.
13:47 < TkTech> zutto, I figured that, I found a page listing the honorifics about 3 seconds after ShaRose mentioned it :)
13:47 < Grum> so you NEVER save it to disk?
13:47  * Grum pulls the powersupply ;)
13:47 < pbunny> Grum: i is saved periodically
13:47 < pbunny> gradually (by chunks)
13:48 < Grum> so you save a 'random state' in the world
13:48 < TkTech> Grum, Bad grummy, bad!
13:48 < Grum> that'll be fun when you load it :P
13:48 < pbunny> Grum: hmm
13:48 < ShaRose> zutto yes because it's insulting to call anyone with high status cute
13:48 < pbunny> but the only alternative is to halt entire world during saving
13:48 < TkTech> pbunny, That doesn't work, why that doesn't work at all!
13:48 < zutto> ShaRose: calling them cute isnt always insulting :|
13:48 < Grum> pbunny: or snapshot the complete world halving your capacity ;)
13:49 < pbunny> no, snapshotting is not an option
13:49 < Grum> sure it is :P
13:49 < zutto> and chan still has nothing to do with cute
13:49 < TkTech> Neither is your idea, pbunny.
13:49 < Grum> just get another 256gb of ram ;)
13:49 < pbunny> world saving is auxilliary to main functionality (and performance), not otherwise
13:49 < TkTech> What happens when a redstone mechanism spans multiple chunks.
13:49 < Grum> pbunny: if your solution was truly viable it would have been done already
13:49 < TkTech> And you save one chunk but don't get to the other for a few more ticks?
13:49 < pbunny> TkTech: yeah, i got his point
13:49 < pbunny> i will think about it
13:50 < Grum> the benefit of stopping emulation in non-active chunks means you do not have to do weird saving trickery
13:50 < Grum> or less ;)
13:50 < pbunny> Grum: the disadvantages are inability to run a realtime independent world
13:50 < Grum> as a  bonus you get some other funny things to solve though =)
13:50 < pbunny> it heavily outweights any benefits
13:50 < Grum> pbunny: not really :)
13:50 < Grum> but you'll see
13:50 < pbunny> sorry, i prefer weird saving trickery
13:50 < Grum> then i hope your server never crashes
13:50 < pbunny> or just halting the world during save
13:51 < ShaRose> it never will!
13:51 < Grum> would be epicly fun to see a village someone build half saved
13:51 < pbunny> RAM-based SSDs are fast enough
13:51 < l4mRh4X0r> "halting the world during save"
13:51 < pbunny> iirc 500MB/s
13:51 < l4mRh4X0r> saving 100GB of data takse 23 minutes, even on SSDs
13:51 < l4mRh4X0r> takes*
13:51 < Grum> 256gb .. mmm :p
13:51 < pbunny> l4mRh4X0r: i will save it compressed
13:51 < pbunny> it compresses good
13:51 < pbunny> maybe to 5Gb
13:51 < pbunny> or smthn
13:51 < l4mRh4X0r> Because compressing doesn't take CPU cycles.
13:51 < Grum> bai cpu :p
13:51 < pbunny> also i won't take 256Gb immediately
13:51 < pbunny> it will grow up to it
13:51 < pbunny> it *
13:51 < zutto> l4mRh4X0r: it doesnt if you use quantum processors!!
13:52 < Grum> i will login to your server and explore that area ;)
13:52 < Grum> just to piss you fof
13:52 < Grum> *off
13:52 < Grum> and how you how hard it breaks ;P
13:52 < l4mRh4X0r> zutto, oh, right, hadn't thought of that
13:52 < Grum> +s
13:52 < l4mRh4X0r> silly me!
13:52 < pbunny> l4mRh4X0r: lol, compressing is nothing compared to I/O anyway
13:52 < ShaRose> just make it so you try and attempt to load chunks all over the place
13:52 < TkTech> pbunny, You realize it's possible to keep simulating the world without actually loading anything but active neighbours, right?
13:52 < pbunny> TkTech: not quite
13:52 < Grum> which is harder but cooler trickery =)
13:52 < l4mRh4X0r> pbunny, it is.
13:53 < pbunny> at the very least it will have the huge performance impact
13:53 < TkTech> Far, far, far, faaaar less than your idea.
13:53 < Grum> it would emulate less than you plan to emulate
13:53 < Grum> i am not sure how your idea is better then ;)
13:53 < pbunny> TkTech: 'chunks loaded' isn't the actual problem
13:53 < TkTech> A bit when a chunk is loaded to update, and a bit to temporarily load a chunk while it's active (such as a minecart moving through)
13:53 < pbunny> if nothing is happening in chunk - it won't use any CPU
13:53 < pbunny> only RAM
13:54 < Grum> anyhow, the only way to show pbunny is to have him see for himself
13:54 < zutto> ^
13:54 < TkTech> Seems like it.
13:54 < zutto> he'll figure it out
13:54 < pbunny> TkTech: even 100000x100000 world won't use CPU if there are no entities, no metaentities, no water and no players
13:54 < l4mRh4X0r> little pbunny-chan :P
13:54 < pbunny> except for simple loop
13:54 < Grum> pbunny: it would
13:54 < Grum> growing plants and random ticking of blocks
13:55 < Grum> or rather; random ticking of blocks
13:55 < Grum> just that one
13:55 < pbunny> Grum: plants are metaentities.
13:55 < pbunny> please read more carefully
13:55 < l4mRh4X0r> nope.
13:55 < Grum> not really o.O
13:55 < Grum> plants are just blocks
13:55 < l4mRh4X0r> rather, really not.
13:55 < pbunny> ok, i meant - no metaentities spawning either
13:55 < Grum> but then it is not minecraft
13:55 < l4mRh4X0r> True, true.
13:55 < pbunny> Grum: metaentity is a block that does something, in terms of my server
13:55 < Grum> i mean, i could point at any section of ram in any system and then claim: 'look minecraft'
13:55 < pbunny> Grum: by that example i tried to show that keeping chunks 'loaded' doesn't have any performance impact
13:55 < Grum> but 'grass' doesnt 'do' anything
13:55 < Grum> BUT it does spread
13:56 < pbunny> entities/metaentities processing do
13:56 < Grum> would be a silly world, without grass ;)
13:56 < ShaRose> don't forget leaves
13:56 < pbunny> Grum: spreading means doing anything.
13:56 < pbunny> well trees are definetely metaentities
13:56 < ShaRose> villages have farming areas as well
13:56 < TkTech> pbunny, Has anyone described you as bullheaded before?
13:56 < pbunny> at least their edges (from which they can grow)
13:56 < Grum> not at all :/
13:56 < Grum> trees do not grow
13:56 -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has joined #mcdevs
13:56 < l4mRh4X0r> Oh, what about other blocks?
13:56  * md_5 grabs more popcorn
13:56 < l4mRh4X0r> They do something.
13:56 < Grum> i mean if you are going this way, you might as well use 1 bit per block, saves a lot of space :p
13:57 < Grum> i mean, 'stone' doesnt 'tick' =)
13:57  * l4mRh4X0r tosses md_5 a beer
13:57 < l4mRh4X0r> ;)
13:57 < l4mRh4X0r> You're gonna need it.
13:57 < l4mRh4X0r> Or would you prefer something else?
13:57 < pbunny> Grum: i'm not doing that way..
13:57 < pbunny> it was just an example that 'keeping chunks loaded' is not a problem
13:57 < pbunny> processing stuff is
13:57 <+md_5> I'll just drink till I pass out, better for my brain cells than reading ths
13:57 < Grum> pbunny: i've always said that you'll run out of cpucycles :P
13:57 < pbunny> and if i unload chunks that doesn't require processing - i won't win anything
13:58 < pbunny> because they wasn't using CPU anyway
13:58 < Grum> weren't and yes
13:58 < pbunny> and if they need processing - they must be loaded
13:58 < pbunny> well i just thought of alternative
13:59 < pbunny> unload chunks, and when player comes nearby - load them and cycle the amount of iterations that they skipped
13:59 < pbunny> but i won't win in performance by doing that anyway
13:59 < TkTech> pbunny, What do you define as processing? Just growing or moving stuff doesn't require loading.
13:59 < l4mRh4X0r> Ah, he's even unloading chunks now!
13:59 < pbunny> TkTech: how so? you must update block data when something grows
14:00 < pbunny> ( if it grows to new block )
14:00 < l4mRh4X0r> We're getting through, somehow :P
14:00 < TkTech> pbunny, No you don't!
14:00 < TkTech> pbunny, All you need is a timestamp and a finite automata.
14:00 < TkTech> pbunny, This started growing at 102042042, and was in the 2nd state of growth.
14:00 < pbunny> TkTech: how about mobs?
14:00 < l4mRh4X0r> finite automata or a finite automaton
14:00 < l4mRh4X0r> Not a finite automata
14:00 < Grum> TkTech: this is what we eventually plan to do to get rid of 'random updates'
14:00 < pbunny> mobs ai depend on many surrounding stuff
14:00 < TkTech> pbunny, Someone walks near the chunk at 10206204, it loads, you update everything as it "should be".
14:01 < pbunny> TkTech: i got it for plants
14:01 < pbunny> what about mobs?
14:01 < TkTech> Moving entities isn't any different.
14:01 < pbunny> they are always alive
14:01 < TkTech> Their "AI" is still finite.
14:01 < zutto> pbunny: you can calculate where mob would be after X amount of time, if player gets close enough to see it
14:01 < TkTech> Same with projectiles, you can always "catch up" later.
14:01 < pbunny> TkTech: sounds like idea i just sounded
14:01 < pbunny> however, some ai may need to depend on chunks that is actually loaded and has players doing somethign on it
14:01  * TkTech kills himself
14:02 < pbunny> in that case i will have to save history of updates too
14:02 -!- exe [~exe@85.28.181.103] has joined #mcdevs
14:03 < pbunny> TkTech: imagine mobs that are gathering around player 10 chunks away from him because one of slime near him detected him
14:03 -!- exe is now known as Guest2411
14:03 < pbunny> how is it possible to use finite automata/whatever for it?
14:03 < pbunny> how is it possible on unloaded chunks?
14:03 < pbunny> i mean - when player comes nearby and chunk will be loaded - you can't just iterate mobs ai
14:03 < pbunny> because information that they would depend one is no more actual
14:03 < pbunny> on *
14:04 < pbunny> also mobs can come out from chunks that you would have unloaded
14:04 < pbunny> etc
14:04 < pbunny> they all need real-time data
14:04 < zutto> they dont need real time data
14:05 < pbunny> they do if they want to be smart
14:05 < zutto> you can dig up the data you need as the AI progresses
14:05 < pbunny> zutto: from history?
14:05 < pbunny> they i must keep history aswell
14:05 < pbunny> zutto: also, some cases won't work like that
14:05 < pbunny> zutto: i.e. mobs won't gather far away and attack player
14:05 < zutto> from database/memory/whereever you store your data
14:05 < pbunny> until he comes closer
14:06 < zutto> why are you so attached to this real-time shit
14:06 < pbunny> TkTech: have you understood my argument about mobs needing real-time data?
14:07 < pbunny> of course i can treat mobs like players, and load chunks when they come at them
14:07 < zutto> have you ever written or studied any AI pathing methods?
14:07 < l4mRh4X0r> pbunny, so when you need mobs from 10 chunks away, you load those chunks, fast-forward the mobs in them, and then use it
14:07 < zutto> ^ you have absolutely no need for real-time data
14:07 < l4mRh4X0r> I don't see the problem
14:07 < pbunny> l4mRh4X0r: what if player will stand on single chunk?
14:07 < pbunny> mobs will never attack him
14:07 < l4mRh4X0r> pbunny, that's what your AI says, right?
14:07 < pbunny> ?
14:08 < pbunny> l4mRh4X0r: if player won't load the chunk, mobs won't attack him
14:08 < l4mRh4X0r> Also, a player generally has a 9x9 chunk area around him loaded
14:08 < pbunny> right?
14:08 < pbunny> l4mRh4X0r: imagine army of mobs 15 chunks away
14:08 < zutto> pbunny: have you played any games before?
14:08 < pbunny> it won't attack him until he loads their chunks?
14:08 < zutto> games with AI i mean
14:08 < l4mRh4X0r> 15 chunks away
14:09 < l4mRh4X0r> 15 chunks is 240 blocks.
14:09 < pbunny> yes.
14:09 < l4mRh4X0r> You won't even see them from that distance
14:09 < pbunny> mobs may have a command center there
14:09 < pbunny> fortress etc
14:09 < pbunny> l4mRh4X0r: exactly
14:09 < l4mRh4X0r> So mobs won't see you either.
14:09 < pbunny> but they somehow detected you
14:09 < pbunny> i.e. by nearby mob
14:09 < zutto> whew
14:09 < pbunny> that transmitted your location to them
14:09 < pbunny> then they gather an army there
14:09 < pbunny> surround you and attack
14:09 < zutto> 15:09:25       pbunny | but they somehow detected you
14:09 < zutto> suddenly feels like we are talking to 5 year old child
14:09 < pbunny> zutto: go away
14:10 < zutto> somehow the bear started flying!
14:10 < l4mRh4X0r> pbunny, he has a point though.
14:10 < pbunny> l4mRh4X0r: so basically your idea (and TkTech's?) won't allow me to do things i need to do on my server
14:10 < l4mRh4X0r> It will
14:10 < l4mRh4X0r> You just need to think.
14:10 < pbunny> l4mRh4X0r: bs.
14:10 < zutto> pbunny: going for minimal sloc isnt always the way to go
14:10 < Flemmard> why thinking when you have a lots of ram ?
14:10 < pbunny> l4mRh4X0r: imagine a chunk with mob army that is unloaded for million ticks
14:10 < zutto> this is good example where it isnt good way to go
14:10 < pbunny> how will i iterate it when its loaded?
14:11 < pbunny> keep a history forever?
14:11 < l4mRh4X0r> I have no experience with AI
14:11 < l4mRh4X0r> But if you have a finite automaton, you can just save the state.
14:11 < pbunny> state of what?
14:11 < l4mRh4X0r> the automaton, of course.
14:11 < pbunny> l4mRh4X0r: i.e. mob army on this chunk would have attacked 900000 ticks ago if player was in chunk X
14:11 < l4mRh4X0r> automata have states.
14:12 < pbunny> how will i determine if player was in chunk X 900000 ticks ago?
14:12 < l4mRh4X0r> And each state uniquely describes a situation
14:12 < pbunny> also, even if army attacks - player isn't there anymore.
14:12 < pbunny> l4mRh4X0r: no.
14:12 < pbunny> l4mRh4X0r: the idea of mobs unable to attack until player unlocks their chunk is BULLSHIT
14:12 < l4mRh4X0r> pbunny, then you make sure the player loads the relevant chunks.
14:12 < pbunny> can we please move along
14:12 < zutto> pbunny: bullshit?
14:12 < pbunny> zutto: bullshit.
14:13 < zutto> all other rpg(and some non-rpg's) do this
14:13 < pbunny> zutto: because its easier to do.
14:13 < pbunny> and consumers are happy with it
14:13 < l4mRh4X0r> pbunny, instead of calling bullshit, can you prove it is?
14:13 < pbunny> l4mRh4X0r: i just proved like 5 times
14:13 < zutto> pbunny: ofcourse consumers are happy with it
14:13 < l4mRh4X0r> If not, I'm afraid your argument is invalid.
14:13 < pbunny> mobs must be able to act always
14:13 < pbunny> not only when their chunk is loaded
14:13 < l4mRh4X0r> well, that's not possible.
14:14 < pbunny> l4mRh4X0r: it is possible when everythign is loaded and mobs can get real-time data
14:14 < l4mRh4X0r> So unless you manage to divide by zero, your argument is invalid.
14:14 < pbunny> ....
14:14 < pbunny> ok, go away
14:14 < pbunny> next!
14:14 < l4mRh4X0r> No! :D
14:14 < l4mRh4X0r> mobs can't act when their chunk is not loaded.
14:14 < l4mRh4X0r> Simple as that.
14:14 < zutto> l4mRh4X0r: dividing by zero is possible if we can use imaginary fourth dimension
14:14 < zutto> and third infinite
14:14 < pbunny> l4mRh4X0r: yes, that's why i need to have everything loaded.
14:15 < l4mRh4X0r> No.
14:15 < l4mRh4X0r> That's why you need to have every relevant thing is loaded.
14:15 < pbunny> yeah.
14:15 < pbunny> and basically everything is relevant.
14:15 < l4mRh4X0r> s/is//
14:15 < l4mRh4X0r> pbunny, it isn't.
14:15 < pbunny> i.e. mobs can plan their attack with choosing the optimal ground structure etc
14:16 < pbunny> predicting player movements depending on surrounding building
14:16 < pbunny> caves
14:16 < pbunny> etc
14:16 < l4mRh4X0r> Oh, right
14:16 < l4mRh4X0r> Your plans were near impossible to start with
14:16 < pbunny> why?
14:16 < l4mRh4X0r> Carry on, don't mind me.
14:16 < zutto> l4mRh4X0r: impossible? BULLSHIT!
14:16 < zutto> with 1tb of ram and 512 cores, he can do it!
14:17 < pbunny> zutto: i used that word after giving my argument 5 times in 2 minutes
14:17 < pbunny> don't act childish
14:17 < zutto> yes, i was copying you
14:17 < pbunny> no.
14:17 < zutto> yes, i was
14:17 < pbunny> i haven't heard any argument except for "you don't know servers" from you
14:17 < pbunny> go away.
14:17 < l4mRh4X0r> pbunny, then read again
14:17 < l4mRh4X0r> And stop telling people to go away
14:17 < zutto> you apparently dont read what i write then
14:18 < pbunny> **:10:09        zutto | l4mRh4X0r: dividing by zero is possible if we can use imaginary fourth dimension
14:18 < pbunny> was that your argument?
14:18 < l4mRh4X0r> If they're trying to stop you from wasting years of your life.
14:18 < pbunny> months. not wasting.
14:18 < l4mRh4X0r> You'll see.
14:19 <+Amaranth> I've just been trying to catch up on scrollback and it was amusing to see the discussion end up with TkTech, Grum, and pbunny basically discussing what Grum did almost 2 years ago for block ticking in beta 1.7
14:20 <+Amaranth> Well, it did the hard half of it anyway
14:20 < pbunny> block ticking?
14:22 <+Amaranth> grass spread and such
14:22 < pbunny> Amaranth: this is not the hardest issue to do with chunk unloading.
14:22 < Flemmard> where can i buy popcorn ?:D
14:23 <+Amaranth> Oh no, I'm not getting into this conversation with you
14:23 < l4mRh4X0r> Popcorn! Popcorn! Only 50 cents for a bucket!
14:23 < pbunny> Amaranth: read the end of discussion - the hardest (impossible) part is that mobs must be able to get real-time information i.e. about player movements
14:23 <+Amaranth> I was just commenting on the discussion, I'm being meta
14:23 < l4mRh4X0r> Beer! $2 per bottle!
14:23 < zutto> 50 cents?
14:23  * l4mRh4X0r pretends to be a salesman
14:23 < zutto> holy shit thats cheap
14:23 < pbunny> that requirement alone requires everything loaded
14:24  * Amaranth struggles to not take bait/give pbunny useful ideas
14:24 < pbunny> Amaranth: you may try to give an argument against "everything always in RAM" approach then :p
14:26 < pbunny> i think the misunderstanding here lies in the fact that you think i am trying to reproduce vanilla minecraft server
14:26 < pbunny> in reality i am trying to make something different - a real-time world which is independent from players
14:26 <+Amaranth> I was more amused with you saying your chunks take almost 5x what I figured was the most inefficient storage of the data was
14:26 < pbunny> so, most of vanilla server's approaches doesn't work for me
14:26 < TkTech> Amaranth, Pfft, I had it first!
14:26 < pbunny> Amaranth: it was a typo/misremember
14:27 < pbunny> its 164Kb per chunk
14:27 < TkTech> Amaranth, Lots of us had done similar concepts for physics in classic (minus the idea of chunks) long ago.
14:27 <+Amaranth> TkTech: He did the part of making block ticking not random but still almost the same as vanilla behavior statistically
14:28 <+Amaranth> The missing part was saving the schedule/timestamp/etc to catch up the growth on the next chunk load
14:28 < Grum> that actually worked
14:28 < Grum> but it needed tweaksings :)
14:28 <+Amaranth> Oh I didn't see where that was hooked up to anything
14:28 < Grum> i still have that diff somewhere
14:29 < TkTech> Is that actually what the game does now? I haven't kept up to date in a long, long time.
14:29 <+Amaranth> I do too, it's in CraftBukkit-Bleeding
14:29 < Grum> TkTech: more change, less random
14:29 < Grum> *chance
14:29 <+Amaranth> No, this was Grum code from beta 1.7 that never got updated
14:29 <+Amaranth> Vanilla still does random ticking
14:29 < Grum> yeah but far less
14:29 < Grum> it used to be 80 times per chunk per tick
14:29 <+Amaranth> Well, it does have some optimizations
14:30 < Grum> btw jens actually agreed to do this
14:30 < Grum> so once upon a time ... :p
14:30 <+Amaranth> Yeah, for one thing 1.0 changed it to 7 chunk radius around each player and 30 blocks per chunk instead of 9 radius and 80 per chunk
14:30 < Grum> yeah
14:30 <+Amaranth> And 1.2 changed it to only attempt ticking sections that have tickable blocks as a part of the anvil change
14:31 < Grum> i missed that one
14:31 <+Amaranth> And iirc 3 blocks per section
14:31 < TkTech> Sensible optimizations
14:31 < Grum> that seems inefficient :/
14:31 < Grum> all is inefficient
14:31 <+Amaranth> 3*16 = 48
14:31 < Grum> we just had a scheduler
14:31 < Grum> so you could actually ask every block when it would get ticked
14:31 <+Amaranth> Well, only ticking sections that have something tickable is not inefficient
14:31 < Grum> and it would just need 64bits per ticking block
14:32 < Grum> remembering which sections are tickable is ;)
14:32 < pbunny> Grum: so persistent mobs will never be implemented in vanilla mc?
14:32 <+Amaranth> You keep track of if it has tickable things at the point you set block types
14:32 < pbunny> independent mobs
14:32 <+Amaranth> (and chunk load you iterate all blocks)
14:32 < Grum> pbunny: you have persistent mobs
14:32 < pbunny> Grum: No, they freeze when chunk is unloaded
14:32 < Grum> some of them stay if you give them an item ;)
14:32 < Grum> i have no idea how a mob can walk when you remove the chunk from memory :P
14:32 < pbunny> Grum: well i won't remove chunks from memory :)
14:33 < pbunny> good. so my server will be superior to vanilla
14:33 < SinZ> uhh
14:33 < pbunny> :p
14:33 < Grum> except your server will not be vanilla
14:33 <+Amaranth> So the slight overhead of managing the tickable count in the block set code is worth the savings of not trying to tick solid stone sections
14:33 < pbunny> Grum: it doesn't need to be
14:33 < SinZ> If the chunk is unloaded, chances are you don't need the mob to move anyway
14:33 < Grum> but then it cannot be superior
14:33 < TkTech> So who has the popcorn bucket now?
14:33 < pbunny> Grum: why?
14:33 <+Amaranth> Grum: They're also persistent if you name them :D
14:33 < Grum> as you are comparing apples and pears
14:33 < SinZ> TkTech: I had noodles, does that count
14:33 < pbunny> Grum: no, more like a dryed-up peach with fresh peach
14:34 <+Amaranth> l4mRh4X0r has the popcorn, jump him
14:34 < Grum> yeah yours being the dryed up one and then you claim it will get less fungus 
14:34  * l4mRh4X0r flees
14:34 < Grum> yeah ofc, it is way less ;)
14:34 < pbunny> Grum: so vanilla mc will always be boring lonely place where mobs are only a temporary illusion
14:34 < Grum> pbunny: no?
14:34 < pbunny> Grum: yes. you can logout and they disappear :)
14:34 < Grum> but why would mobs do anything if there is no-one near to do anything to? :)
14:35 < pbunny> on my server they will wait for you for some time :p
14:35 < TkTech> I want to stay, as this is entertaining, but I also want to beat the storm.
14:35 < Grum> no they do not dissapear
14:35 < pbunny> then go away killing somebody else
14:35 <+Amaranth> Grum: Still not as amusing as the servers that basically only implement walking around placing blocks bragging about how much faster than vanilla they are ;)
14:35 -!- Brandon15811_ [~Brandon15@2a01:e0b:1:156:986d:67b:1976:e18] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
14:35 < Grum> this is about the same as the age old question: does a tree falling in forrest without anyone around make sound
14:35 < Grum> also, it does not make sound
14:35 < Grum> because for it to be sound there has to be an observer
14:36 < pbunny> Grum: because mobs can populate, mine resources, build fortresses, gain intelligence on players, ambush them, etc
14:36 < Grum> and we just said there are no observers :P
14:36 < Grum> can they?
14:36 < pbunny> and on my server there will be 2 fighting sides of the mobs - the overworld ones and the nether ones
14:36 < Grum> not in minecraft ;D
14:36 < Grum> slightly boring then
14:36 < Grum> pour lava over the portal ... win
14:36 <+Amaranth> Grum: Actually one of the big optimizations some vanilla mods make is to stop ticking entities that are loaded but a certain distance away from any player
14:36 < Grum> yeah
14:36 < Grum> because they have nothing to do with the player anyhow
14:37 <+Amaranth> Right and sometimes they are not even drawn on the player's client
14:37 < Grum> yup
14:37 <+Amaranth> But they are still running full AI code
14:37 < Grum> i'll get around to that too ... eventually
14:37 <+Amaranth> :D
14:37 < SinZ> throw it on the todo list
14:37 < pbunny> Amaranth: full ai code is terribly simple in vanilla mc
14:37 < Grum> and terribly expensive
14:38 < Grum> mostly because of pathing
14:38 < pbunny> and its impossible to make mobs smarter because they are not real-time
14:38 <+Amaranth> Selecting AI goals to run makes me cry
14:38 < Grum> Amaranth: same
14:38 < Grum> again, i will fix that ;)
14:38 < SinZ> make the client more fussy about how it receives chunks? <3
14:38 < Grum> hahahah
14:38 < Grum> that too
14:39 <+md_5> still going
14:39  * md_5 shoots self
14:39 < SinZ> not sure if it is worth getting some popcorn or not
14:39 <+Amaranth> md_5: Nah, now we're talking about more generic things and tricking Grum into saying he will fix them in vanilla
14:40 <+md_5> X-forwarded-for type paccket/plugin message please
14:40  * md_5 ducks
14:40 <+Amaranth> haha
14:40 < SinZ> launcher blog in the new launcher
14:40  * SinZ hides
14:40 < pbunny> Grum: will persistent furnaces be ever implemented in vanilla?
14:40 <+md_5> wat
14:40 < Grum> yes but through another mechanic
14:40 < pbunny> furnaces that burn even when nobody's around
14:41 < Grum> each unloaded chunk will remember what its ticktime was when it was unloaded
14:41 <+Amaranth> Furnaces are quite possibly the easiest thing to make appear to burn even when the chunk is unloaded
14:41 < Grum> and on load just fastforward
14:41 <+Amaranth> Yep
14:41 <+Amaranth> That's really simple to do
14:41 < Grum> this is also what we did in that patch of 1.7 iirc
14:41 < pbunny> Grum: what if a mob robs furnace during its operation?
14:41 < Grum> pbunny: it cannot do that?
14:41 < pbunny> how can you fastforward that
14:41 -!- Brandon15811_ [~Brandon15@2a01:e0b:1:156:cac:2537:c7ad:8447] has joined #mcdevs
14:41 < SinZ> the chunk would of been unloaded, so nothing could of altered it
14:41 < pbunny> Grum: it can on my server
14:41 < Grum> pbunny: it can't
14:42 <+Amaranth> If mobs ever gain the ability to keep chunk loaded I'm patching that shit out :D
14:42 < SinZ> Vannila != your server
14:42 < pbunny> it will be able to.
14:42 < pbunny> SinZ: exactly
14:42 < Grum> then show it now, let me login, o wait ...
14:42 < Grum> indeed
14:42 < l4mRh4X0r> SinZ, could have*
14:43 < pbunny> its funny how mojang fails to understand that all performance issues come from poor language choise alone :)
14:43 <+Amaranth> Oh god
14:43 <+Amaranth> Here we go
14:43 < l4mRh4X0r> pbunny, they don't.
14:43 <+md_5> disclaimer: pbunny doesnt even own minecraft
14:43 <+md_5> please no pbunny 
14:43 < pbunny> java isnt designed for servers
14:43 <+md_5> pbunny uuh
14:43 < l4mRh4X0r> actually, it is.
14:43 < SinZ> you arn't designed for this channel
14:43 <+Amaranth> Oh god, is he actually going there?
14:43 <+md_5> vert.x
14:43 < pbunny> java is for simple mobile apps etc
14:43 <+md_5> hornetq
14:43 < Grum> pbunny: java is designed for servers
14:43 <+Amaranth> Holy shit, he is doing it
14:43 < Grum> it just depends on how you use it
14:43 < Grum> bad code is bad code in any language
14:43 < pbunny> Grum: java uses memory irrationally
14:44 < Grum> it doesnt if you know how to use it
14:44 <+md_5> infinispam
14:44 < pbunny> and you cant optimize that
14:44 <+md_5> elasticsearch
14:44  * md_5 head desk
14:44 < Grum> you can? :/
14:44 < pbunny> no.
14:44 <+Amaranth> Lucene!
14:44 < Grum> i've done it >.>
14:44 < l4mRh4X0r> pbunny, stop talking about stuff you know shit about.
14:44 < Grum> i've actually done just that for my work O.o
14:44 < l4mRh4X0r> shit being nothing, in this case.
14:44 < SinZ> It is getting to the stage, where he needs to join SirCmpwn
14:44 <+Amaranth> Half of Google runs on Java I think
14:44 < Grum> dropping a 'c' radix-tree down from ~6gb to 2.2gb in java
14:44 <+md_5> Amaranth twitter and google, yah
14:45 < pbunny> Grum: is that why mc client uses 4Gb of RAM to display initial menu?
14:45 < Grum> the problem is never in the language, the problem is always in implementation
14:45 <+md_5> pbunny you do know the avast definition servers are java?
14:45 <+Amaranth> That's right, twitter uses scala now, right?
14:45 < Grum> pbunny: it doesn't
14:45 <+Amaranth> Well, scala and java
14:45 < Grum> it uses <120mb
14:45 <+md_5> thats 100 million clients right there
14:45 < pbunny> Grum: it does,
14:45 < Grum> pbunny: the normal client doesnt even GET 4gb of ram
14:45 < Grum> so stop being retarded
14:45 < pbunny> Grum: ok, isnt' 120mb too much for displaying a simple menu?
14:45 <+Amaranth> Grum: He uses magic launcher and gave it 4GB I bet
14:45 < l4mRh4X0r> Amaranth, didn't scala run on java? :P
14:45 <+md_5> pbunny my client uses 96mb of ram
14:45 <+md_5> literally
14:45 <+md_5> pisses me off when people say MC is a hog
14:45 < Grum> pbunny: yes, but it preloads *ALL* assets
14:45 <+md_5> mods are hogs, MC is not
14:45 <+Amaranth> l4mRh4X0r: Well, Scala runs on the JVM but it is a different language
14:45 < Grum> which a good game does
14:46 < l4mRh4X0r> Yeah, same difference :P
14:46 < l4mRh4X0r> It's what I meant anyway.
14:46 <+md_5> again, my client runs fine on 96mb
14:46 < Grum> same
14:46 < Grum> no issues at all
14:46 <+Amaranth> md_5: I used to actually reduce the client's heap
14:46 <+clonejo> Hey, don't feel the trolls, he'll learn eventually ;-)
14:46  * l4mRh4X0r feels pbunny 
14:46 < Grum> and i should add, the client right now is not at all in any way or form optimized to use 'little memory'
14:46 < l4mRh4X0r> Eww
14:46 < SinZ> clonejo: thats what we said with SirCmpwn, we were wrong
14:46 < l4mRh4X0r> All gooey.
14:46 <+md_5> eucalyptus is also Java
14:47 < Grum> java is just a language, a bloody portable on at that
14:47 < Grum> and that is the reason why minecraft should be and stay java
14:47 < pbunny> Grum: bloody unoptimized
14:47 <+md_5> so is akka: High Performance
14:47 <+md_5> 50 million msg/sec on a single machine. Small memory footprint; ~2.7 million actors per GB of heap.
14:47 < l4mRh4X0r> pbunny, heh!
14:47 < l4mRh4X0r> Hypocrite.
14:47 <+md_5> please
14:47 <+md_5> I cant take this
14:47 < Grum> pbunny: do it better
14:47  * md_5 calls suicide hotline
14:47 < Grum> (i know i can, i just do not have the time for it right now)
14:47 < Grum> also, it would murder the community to stop using java
14:48 <+ammar2> there's a certain word for people who try to provoke responses with strong words and stupidity you know :P
14:48 < SinZ> and would require too much cost for so little gain
14:48 < l4mRh4X0r> (in spanish accent) "Yes, hello? This is suicide hotline!"
14:48 < pbunny> Grum: java community isnt needed
14:48 < SinZ> pbunny: so you expect Mojang to completelly remake their game just for minor optimisations
14:48 < l4mRh4X0r> Meh, I'm outta here.
14:48 < pbunny> SinZ: not minor.
14:48 < l4mRh4X0r> Yes minor.
14:48  * md_5 head desk
14:48 <+md_5> 96mb
14:48 < SinZ> and lose cross-platform compatiblility in the process
14:48 <+md_5> what game runs on 96mb
14:48 < pbunny> java is the only reason for the need to unload chunks
14:48 <+Amaranth> *headdesk*
14:49 <+md_5> team fortress uses like 15 times that
14:49 < SinZ> and common sense...
14:49 < pbunny> its a memory hog :)
14:49 < l4mRh4X0r> pbunny, have you ever actually used the JVM like it's supposed to?
14:49 <+ammar2> pbunny: wtf are you even talking about now
14:49 < SinZ> Common sense is to unload chunks
14:49 <+md_5> team fortress uses 15x more ram than Minecraft, and its written in C++
14:49 <+md_5> what the f*** is your  point pbunny 
14:49 < pbunny> ?
14:49 < Grum> pbunny: not really, i can perfectly keep the data in memory in java without major overhead over c/c++
14:49 <+Amaranth> I tried to calculate how much overhead java adds to each chunk once
14:49 <+md_5> Grum please code next client in forth
14:49 <+Amaranth> I'm pretty sure the number was less than 100 bytes
14:49 < Grum> its less than 150bytes
14:50 <+ammar2> Amaranth: and that 100 bytes is why we need to unload chunks
14:50 < Grum> sure objects cost memory, there are no structs like in c
14:50 <+ammar2> pbunny please, just stop ;_;
14:50 < Grum> who cares?
14:50 < Grum> you can also code it without losing your mind :)
14:50 < l4mRh4X0r> And without using defines
14:50 <+Amaranth> The trick is objects full of arrays instead of arrays full of objects
14:50 < l4mRh4X0r> Oh wait, you can do that in C as well!
14:51 -!- edlothiol [~edlothiol@2a02:810b:80c0:27:f2de:f1ff:fe78:51cf] has joined #mcdevs
14:51 <+Amaranth> Beyond that limitation the only major problem with java memory use is the fact that people use memory without thinking about it
14:51 < pbunny> my second point - java is interpreted language, so it uses CPU awfully inefficiently
14:51 < Grum> also pbunny, c sucks speedwise
14:51 < edk> java does have a memory problem, it just doesn't really affect chunks
14:51 < Grum> asm is far better
14:51 < pbunny> i.e. single + operation takes about 100 CPU instructions
14:51 < pbunny> etc
14:51 < edk> pbunny: that's not true
14:51 < Grum> erm java is a compiled language
14:51 < edk> pbunny: do you understand what JIT is?
14:51 <+md_5> nope
14:51 < pbunny> Grum: but nobody compiles mc server into binary
14:51  * md_5 head desk
14:51 < Grum> its not compiled to native bytecode
14:51  * md_5 grabs shotgun
14:51 < Grum> pbunny: JIT?
14:51 < pbunny> jit?
14:51 < Grum> seriously within 10 seconds the most important parts of the code are native
14:52  * SinZ hands md_5 a shotgun pellet
14:52 < pbunny> Grum: native to what?
14:52 < pbunny> to java interpreter?
14:52 < edk> pbunny: Java is compiled to JVM bytecode, right?
14:52 <+md_5> no
14:52 <+Amaranth> SinZ: It's called a shell :P
14:52 < Grum> yeah. the piece of a jvm that translate the heavily used calls to nativebyte code from jvm :p
14:52 < SinZ> same difference!
14:52 <+md_5> TO YOUR PROCESSOR
14:52 < edk> pbunny: when the JVM runs it, it generates native code for the platform it's running on
14:52 <+md_5> TO x86 INSTRUCTIONS
14:52 < Grum> this is why java is so hard to benchmark btw
14:52 < pbunny> md_5: what about x86_64
14:52 < Grum> it does that as well
14:52 <+Amaranth> Like gcc -O2 levels of optimization to your CPU
14:52 < edk> it can do those too, obviously
14:52 <+md_5> ok
14:52 < Grum> whatever the host os is on
14:53 <+md_5> now you are just fucking trolling
14:53 < pbunny> still, it compiles it inefficiently
14:53 <+Amaranth> (he knows what gcc is, right?)
14:53 < pbunny> i.e. range checking
14:53 < pbunny> etc
14:53 < edk> not particularly inefficiently
14:53 < pbunny> no memcpy analogues
14:53 < Grum> pbunny: not really
14:53 < pbunny> because you can't operate pointers in java
14:53 < Grum> o.O
14:53 < pbunny> you are not in control of memory
14:53 < Grum> the jvm can
14:53 <+Amaranth> I can bitch about low hanging fruit in the Java optimization world all day
14:53 < pbunny> its all virtualised
14:53 < edk> pbunny: current JVMs are actually rather competitive speed wise
14:53 < Grum> pbunny: yeah it is
14:53 < pbunny> and jvm guesses about optimal memory usage
14:53 <+Amaranth> But it's still incredibly effective
14:53 < Grum> which means i can run it on any system without much troubles :P
14:54 <+md_5> jit can sometimes do better than gcc on trivial cpu bound algorithms
14:54 <+md_5> just saying
14:54 < pbunny> Grum: do you know what a pointer is?
14:54 < pbunny> =[
14:54 < Grum> pbunny: my dick
14:54 < edk> pbunny: do you?
14:54 < Grum> its pointing down because of this discussion
14:54 < pbunny> edk: yeah
14:54 < edk> go on, then: enlighten us
14:54 <+md_5> pbunny do you know what duffs device is? Just curious
14:54 < pbunny> pointers allow for direct operations with memory
14:54 < pbunny> in java you can't directly operate on memory
14:54 < Grum> you can
14:54 <+md_5> sun.misc.unsafe
14:54 < Grum> that YOU do not know how is your problem :p
14:54 < pbunny> i.e. copy 15 bytes of A to B
14:54 <+md_5> m8
14:54 <+Amaranth> Wait wait, this is reminding me of a youtube video
14:54 < pbunny> md_5: yeah, but nobody uses it
14:55 < Grum> pbunny: because it is not needed or portable
14:55 <+md_5> and your point?
14:55 < edk> pbunny: do you know what the C Abstract Machine is?
14:55 < edk> Amaranth: I bet I know what it is
14:55 < pbunny> Grum: so, everybody codes in OOP that is then mapped to memory operations by JVM which is not smart
14:55 <+Amaranth> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzkRVzciAZg
14:55 < l4mRh4X0r> "You can't use pointers in java"
14:55 < pbunny> so memory is used inefficiently
14:55 <+Amaranth> edk: You do know what it is :D
14:55 < l4mRh4X0r> "So you can, but nobody uses it, so my point is still valid"
14:55 < l4mRh4X0r> That's not how life works, pbunny.
14:55 < edk> once more, with feeling
14:55 < edk> pbunny: do you know what the C Abstract Machine is?
14:56 < pbunny> yeah
14:56 <+md_5> This troll has been fed so much I'm surprised he hasnt exploded
14:56 <+Amaranth> md_5: This is helping me stay awake :D
14:56 < pbunny> md_5: im not troll. i'm a minecraft server developer
14:56 <+md_5> pbunny yeah me too, I googled it about the same time as you
14:56 < edk> pbunny: so you know you can't directly operate on memory in C
14:57 < pbunny> edk: i can tell it how to operate it accurately though
14:57 < pbunny> i.e. take something frmo here, write here
14:57 <+Amaranth> Ooh ooh can we talk about segments and FAR pointers now?
14:57 < l4mRh4X0r> Amaranth, if you want to :)
14:57 < edk> pbunny: if you're copying, your code is probably inefficient :)
14:58 < pbunny> edk: ...
14:58 < pbunny> edk: what is inefficient in memcpying the item when you drop 1 of the stack?
14:58 < pbunny> then assigning the quantity
14:59 < pbunny> ( memcpying the part without quantity )
14:59 <+md_5> Pbunny have you ever worked as a programmer?
14:59 < edk> well, for that case you should just use struct assignment
14:59 < pbunny> in java, you would probably use some Class, ClassFactory or ClassIndustrialSector
14:59 < pbunny> for that 
14:59 < Grum> Amaranth: epic
14:59 -!- Yoshi2 [~chatzilla@xdsl-78-35-205-16.netcologne.de] has joined #mcdevs
14:59 < pbunny> edk: lol.
14:59 <+Amaranth> Grum: ?
15:00 < pbunny> edk: you do understand that struct assignment assigns pointer to another pointer?
15:00 < edk> I would, if that weren't bullshit
15:00 < edk> go learn C
15:00 < pbunny> LOL.
15:00 <+md_5> Brain cells... Facing
15:00 <+md_5> Fading
15:00 < pbunny> edk: oh, you mean non-pointer struct?
15:00 < pbunny> i don't have those
15:00 < pbunny> and assigning those is still memcpy
15:00 <+Amaranth> Grum: If you mean the youtube video just remember "You may recall sequential code, that's the code you can read" and smile :)
15:00 <+md_5> Don't make as embarrass you in ##c again
15:00 < edk> md_5: he got banned from there
15:01 <+md_5> Why?
15:01 < pbunny> edk: no.
15:01 <+md_5> Lmfao
15:01 < pbunny> i just joined there
15:01 <+Amaranth> Stack allocation. Still memcpy. Is this guy real?
15:01 < Grum> Amaranth: yeah the video is epic
15:01 < edk> ok, quieted*
15:01 < pbunny> Amaranth: no, stack allocation is malloc :)
15:01 < edk> oh god
15:01 <+Amaranth> Ow.
15:01 <+Amaranth> This is physical painful.
15:01 <+md_5> Wha
15:01 <+Amaranth> My brain cannot take it anymore.
15:02 < Grum> pbunny: it really doesn't matter what you say, c is a shitty language to work with in these days
15:02 < pbunny> **:57:16 freenode  -- | ##c q *bunny*!*@* Zhivago!~lys@unaffiliated/zhivago 1366282232
15:02 <+md_5> Am I missing something or are you retarded
15:02 < pbunny> edk: no, they just don't like bunnies there
15:02 < edk> pbunny: yeah, that was for you
15:02 < pbunny> no.
15:02 < Grum> haha
15:02 < edk> I saw Zhivago do it, you evolutionary cul-de-sac
15:02 < pbunny> edk: logs please.
15:02 < edk> one sec
15:04 < edk> https://gist.github.com/edk141/1ebab643b3cb5763b533
15:04 <+md_5> You are a moron
15:04 < SinZ> You only just worked that out?
15:05 <+md_5> Do you know what clang is?
15:05 < pbunny> aah, just some morning trololo there
15:05 < pbunny> nothing serious
15:05 < edk> there was I attributing it to your lack of functioning brain cells
15:05 <+md_5> Do you know what clang is?
15:05 < SinZ> shame tk is afk
15:05 < pbunny> md_5: a sound of metallic instrument?
15:06  * md_5 cries
15:06 < pbunny> :)
15:06 < pbunny> of course i know what it is
15:06 < pbunny> gcc is superior to it
15:06 <+md_5> /
15:06  * SinZ looks for a sturdy piece of rope
15:06 <+md_5> Tk get it over and ban
15:07 < pbunny> why?
15:07 <+Amaranth> He isn't entirely wrong there at least
15:07 < pbunny> i'm just having some fun
15:07 < pbunny> fun isn't forbidden here, is it?
15:07 < SinZ> so was the person robbing a bank
15:07 <+Amaranth> So when we back him into a corner he starts saying it's all a joke
15:07 < pbunny> not all
15:08 -!- BizarreCake [~BizarreCa@46.121.251.157] has joined #mcdevs
15:08 < edk> where have I seen that before...?
15:09 < pbunny> **:57:32         Grum | pbunny: it really doesn't matter what you say, c is a shitty language to work with in these days
15:09 < pbunny> please back this statement up with something
15:09 < pbunny> most of linux userspace is in C
15:09 < pbunny> linux kernel is in C
15:09 < pbunny> would it be better if it was in java? (lol)
15:09 < Grum> yes, and how many people use linux?
15:09 < pbunny> Grum: 80% of clever people
15:09 < edk> lol
15:09 < pbunny> others use BSD
15:09 < ShaRose> pbunny a lot of programs run java
15:09 < Grum> ok wait
15:09 < edk> C is a good choice for writing kernels
15:10 < pbunny> edk: why?
15:10 < Grum> so 40% of the people uses linux?
15:10 < edk> therefore it's good for every single other purpose
15:10 < edk> amirite?
15:10 < Grum> god tell this to linus
15:10 < pbunny> Grum: not 40%
15:10 < SinZ> We really need to have more people with op in here
15:10 < pbunny> only 1% of people can be considered clever
15:10 < pbunny> so its 0.8%
15:10 <+Amaranth> C is a great choice for plumbing, whether you should use it for "apps" depends on the situation
15:10 < edk> you're not one of them
15:10 < pbunny> however, we don't need to bother about others
15:10 < pbunny> Amaranth: a server is not just "an app"
15:10 < pbunny> especially if its server not for distribution
15:10 <+Amaranth> Grum: Actually a large portion of the world does use linux
15:11 < pbunny> server's requirements are similar to kernel's
15:11 < ShaRose> servers
15:11 <+Amaranth> Android and all
15:11 < Grum> pbunny: yes 40%; 80% of smart people -> based on IQ scales; 50% of the population is below average and 50% is above; therefor you can call this 50% above 'smart' (compared to the other half) -- so 80% of the smart people means 80% of the 50% ... which is 40% of all people
15:11 < pbunny> Grum: lol, IQ means nothing
15:11 < SinZ> its what defines it
15:11 < pbunny> its just ability to solve typical riddles
15:11 < Grum> you are talking about smart, i'm just putting a metric next to it
15:11 <+md_5> Pbunny, so assembly, forth or lisp for next server?
15:11 < pbunny> i.e. you can pass the test 10 times and your IQ will be higher every time
15:11 < pbunny> does it mean you become smarter?
15:11 < Grum> but anyways, you are retarded to code in c
15:11 < Grum> you should be coding in asm
15:11 < pbunny> md_5: C
15:12 < Grum> its fucking faster
15:12 < pbunny> Grum: asm takes long time to code
15:12 < pbunny> C does not
15:12 < SinZ> So you are being less efficient
15:12 <+md_5> Uh
15:12 < pbunny> in fact, you can code in C faster than in java
15:12 < ShaRose> C takes more time than java
15:12 < Grum> nah that just means you suck at asm pbunny
15:12 < pbunny> no need for ridiculous OOP, ClassIndustrialSectors etc
15:12 <+md_5> C takes. About 4 times as long to produce quality code
15:12 < pbunny> Grum: no, i just don't have that much time
15:13 < pbunny> md_5: in java you must create a class to do a=1+1;
15:13 < pbunny> that is ridiculous
15:13 <+md_5> Maybe if you actually knew one thing about Java this discussion wouldn't be so bad
15:13 < pbunny> this is then compiled into like 1Mb binary
15:13 < pbunny> which uses 1Gb of RAM
15:13 <+md_5> .......
15:13 < ShaRose> lol wut
15:13 <+md_5> There is a java 4k competition
15:13 < Grum> pbunny: you must be the most clueless smart person on the planet
15:13 < SinZ> pbunny: are you by any chance a creationist?
15:13 <+md_5> 4kb java games
15:13 <+md_5> Some are amazing
15:14 < pbunny> SinZ: what is it?
15:14 < SinZ>  
15:14 < ShaRose> how old do you think the earth is
15:14 < Grum> pbunny: i know this is a stupid question, but how old are you?
15:14 < Grum> we need some perspective
15:14 <+md_5> 12 or surfing
15:14 <+md_5> Something
15:14 < pbunny> md_5: there was a 64Kb FPS once that had textures and other stuff packed extremely dense
15:14 < pbunny> and it was a binary
15:14 < Calinou> lol programming language talk
15:15 <+md_5> 64kb is massive
15:15 < Calinou> let's make a more interesting debate instead: 0-indexed vs 1-indexed
15:15 < Calinou> pbunny: kkrieger
15:15 < pbunny> md_5: for a FPS with quake-like graphics it is not
15:15 < pbunny> Calinou: maybe
15:15 < Calinou> not packaged, generated
15:15 < Calinou> md_5: go update zombe :3
15:15 <+Amaranth> pbunny: That is procedurally generated, not packed
15:15 < Grum> pbunny: url?
15:15 < Calinou> and it fits in 96k and not 64k
15:15 < Grum> did you ever even play quake pbunny? :D
15:15 < Grum> the oldskool 'normal' quake :)
15:15 < Calinou> Grum plays Q4, we know
15:15 <+md_5> Not old enough to have
15:16 < Calinou> lol
15:16 < pbunny> ok 96kb
15:16 < SinZ> I regret not getting popcorn
15:16 < Calinou> KB, not kb
15:16 < pbunny> Grum: sure, and i can rape your ass in it
15:16 < pbunny> :p
15:16 < ShaRose> SinZ I don't regret getting it
15:16 -!- Calinou [~Calinou@unaffiliated/calinou] has quit [Quit: Excess Flood]
15:16  * ShaRose actually DID go get popcorn
15:17 < Grum> pbunny: not when i was at my best hehe
15:17  * SinZ gets popcorn while SinZ still can
15:17 < pbunny> Grum: what happened now?
15:17 < pbunny> brain java?
15:17 < Grum> we're 20 years later? ;)
15:17 < pbunny> i'm not that young too
15:17 < pbunny> im in ut2004 now though
15:17  * ShaRose is 22, never played quake
15:17 < Grum> but i actually used to go to eu tournaments for quakeworld :P
15:17 < edk> pbunny: this is a 1MB binary, right? https://gist.github.com/edk141/5ae51b5c2d2720646db1
15:18 < pbunny> edk: i meant compiled binary.
15:18 < Grum> so long ago hehe
15:18 <+Amaranth> That is compiled :D
15:18 < ShaRose> that is a compiled binary dumbass
15:18 < Grum> someone like him a minecraft_server.exe orso >.>
15:18 < Grum> (link
15:18 < pbunny> compiled binaries aren't usually called *.class
15:18 < edk> java ones are
15:18 < pbunny> they are executables
15:18 <+Amaranth> ...
15:18 < ShaRose> yes they are
15:18 < ShaRose> lol
15:18 < Grum> pbunny: .exe right? ;)
15:18 < pbunny> you can't just execute a class.
15:18 <+md_5> .....
15:18 < ShaRose> ... yes you can
15:18 < edk> yes I can
15:18 <+md_5> Yes you can
15:18 < ShaRose> are you really that dumb hahaha
15:18 < pbunny> u sure?
15:19 < edk> yes
15:19 <+Amaranth> Especially on linux you can
15:19 <+md_5> Java that program.class
15:19 < Grum> yes; java foo
15:19 < Grum> done! :p
15:19 <+md_5> Yeah
15:19 <+md_5> Retard
15:19 < pbunny> Grum: execute with java != execute
15:19 < pbunny> ...
15:19 <+Amaranth> I'm trying to remember the feature
15:19 < ShaRose> .... EXECUTE with java
15:19 < pbunny> you can't just do ./test.class
15:19 < pbunny> without java installed
15:19 <+md_5> .....
15:19 <+md_5> Are
15:19 < Grum> you mean getting a standalone executable?
15:19 <+md_5> Yoiu
15:19 < Grum> you should be more clear with what you want ;)
15:19 < pbunny> Grum: YES.
15:19 <+Amaranth> You can, if you set it up. I mean, obviously you need java installed
15:19 < Grum> pbunny: but i can run it on any system that has java
15:20 <+Amaranth> You can't run your C app without libc installed
15:20 <+md_5> You can't do that without c stdlib either
15:20 < Grum> oh wait your shitty crapshit cant
15:20 < pbunny> Amaranth: well i meant non-java binary executable.
15:20 < pbunny> machine-code executable.
15:20 < pbunny> is it clear now?
15:20 <+md_5> You are fucked
15:20 < Grum> pbunny: java is not machinecode? O.o
15:20 <+md_5> Also suddenly gcj
15:20 < Grum> but i really do not see any issue :p
15:20 < ShaRose> pbunny is so dumb I don't even know
15:20 < pbunny> md_5: which produces 1Mb binaries.
15:20 <+Amaranth> Oh yeah, quick, run it through gcj :D
15:20 < pbunny> Grum: java is not machine code.
15:20 < pbunny> processors doesn't operate java yet.
15:20 <+Amaranth> I'm sure it'll make something horrible
15:20 < Grum> that is what i said O.o
15:20 <+md_5> TkTech: ban please
15:20 <+md_5> Pbunny yes they do
15:20 < Grum> nah dont ban
15:20 < ShaRose> no don't
15:21 < Grum> just ignore it :P
15:21 < ShaRose> he's hilarious
15:21 < pbunny> ban md_5 
15:21 <+md_5> You can get some that do
15:21 < pbunny> he's boring
15:21 <+Amaranth> Actually you don't want a processor that runs java bytecode directly
15:21 < Grum> pbunny: you've wasted so much time you should have been typing asm meanwhile, you could have had a WAY faster codebase
15:21 < ShaRose> whenever I'm down I can just stop and think "At least I'm not as deluded as pbunny is"
15:21 < edk> :D
15:21 <+Amaranth> The JIT does a _lot_ of optimization to make java bytecode run efficiently
15:21  * SinZ has popcorn now
15:21  * dx walks in
15:21 <+Amaranth> You wouldn't want all of that hard coded in a CPU or in the CPU microcode
15:22 <+md_5> http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_processor
15:22 < dx> oh god what the hell guys
15:22 < pbunny> Amaranth: it isn't smarter than good programmer though
15:22 < ezdiy> awww
15:22 < pbunny> it doesn't have intellect.
15:22 < ezdiy> is it java is retarded again?
15:22 < pbunny> its just an algorithm
15:22 < edk> I bet it's a lot smarter than you
15:22 < pbunny> ezdiy: it is always retarded.
15:22 < ShaRose> .m
15:22 < dx> ezdiy: yeah, seems like it
15:22 < ShaRose> >:(
15:22 < jast> fortunately most programmers are stupid, too
15:22 < ezdiy> i skipped that show lately
15:22 < ezdiy> is there something new to the plot?
15:22 < dx> i'm mostly annoyed because i see Grum and Amaranth are here, wasting their time
15:22 < Grum> btw pbunny, why don't you write your code in hardware? why not just make it silicon directly?
15:22 < jast> few programmers know the intricacies of cache lines by heart
15:22 < Grum> WAAAY faster
15:22 < ezdiy> i heard memory hog argument is irrelevant now
15:23 < Grum> dx: I'm working on minecraft meanwhile ;)
15:23 < pbunny> Grum: takes more time.
15:23 < ezdiy> since ram is cheap and abundant
15:23 < jast> not to mention for each common architecture
15:23 < Grum> pbunny: as does coding c :)
15:23 <+Amaranth> I'm watching a dota 2 stream :D
15:23 < pbunny> ezdiy: not for minecraft server.
15:23 < pbunny> java is the reason they have to unload chunks
15:23 < Grum> no
15:23 < ezdiy> pbunny: why?
15:23 < dx> man, seriously
15:23 < pbunny> which destroys the persistence of the world
15:23 < Grum> sanity is the reason we unload chunks :)
15:23 < ShaRose> no they unload chunks because it's sane
15:23 < ezdiy> pbunny: i keep all the chunks in ram :)
15:23 < dx> we don't need to have this conversation anymore
15:23 < pbunny> ezdiy: how many of them?
15:23 < jast> the reason is that it's... rather special purpose to keep everything loaded
15:23 < ezdiy> pbunny: whole map
15:23 < ShaRose> it's funny though
15:23 < SinZ> dx: we are stalling for tk to ban
15:23 < pbunny> ezdiy: how big is it?
15:23 < edk> dx: we find it fun plumbing the depths of pbunny's idiocy
15:24 < dx> heh
15:24 < Grum> I'm finally overhauling resourceloading in the client right now
15:24 < Grum> so much fun ;)
15:24 < ShaRose> earlier he said a .class wasn't compiled
15:24 <+Amaranth> TIL you do stack allocation in C with malloc
15:24 < SinZ> also, I just cooked popcorn, need to eat it with something
15:24 < Grum> i need something like this to not make my kill myself
15:24 < jast> edk: the word you're looking for is 'enlightenment'
15:24 < dx> edk: yeah actually i did that once, for some reason i'm on the other side today
15:24 < jast> ShaRose: for different values of 'compiled'
15:24 < edk> hehe
15:24 < pbunny> ShaRose: i meant a machine-code executable.
15:24 < dx> edk: mostly because i think it's sad that most of the activity of #mcdevs is this
15:24 < pbunny> not java executable.
15:24 < ezdiy> pbunny: ~40gb
15:25 < pbunny> ezdiy: how many chunks are there
15:25 < l4mRh4X0r> pbunny, hang on then
15:25 < edk> dx: sure, i'd have banned him ages ago
15:25 < ezdiy> pbunny: on disk AND in ram
15:25 < pbunny> ezdiy: on disk?
15:25 <+Amaranth> dx: Mixed in with this we had some neat design and performance discussion
15:25 < pbunny> you said you keep all chunks in RAM
15:25 < ezdiy> pbunny: you still need to save the changes
15:25 < pbunny> ezdiy: world saves?
15:25 < ezdiy> otherwise players throw autistic tantrums
15:25 < pbunny> what
15:25 < ezdiy> well
15:25 < dx> Amaranth: oh nice, thanks for telling me, it doesn't feel so bad anymore
15:25 < edk> i saw a good video about autism
15:25 < pbunny> ezdiy: why is disk needed to save changes?
15:25 < ezdiy> pbunny: electricity goes off
15:26 < pbunny> ezdiy: ah, ok.
15:26 < ezdiy> and poof, every change gone
15:26 < pbunny> ezdiy: so how many chunks are in the map currently?
15:26 < edk> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yng0V0TCl9s
15:26 < ezdiy> no idea too lazy to log in the server
15:26 < pbunny> ezdiy: i just save world periodically
15:26 <+md_5> 30k^2
15:26 < ezdiy> pbunny: whole world?
15:26 <+md_5> 30k^2
15:26 < ezdiy> that oughta be slow on my server
15:26 < pbunny> ezdiy: yeah
15:26 < ezdiy> luckily, even notchian server saves only the changes
15:27 < ezdiy> and notch is exceptionally bad programmer
15:27 < ezdiy> so i guess its just common sense
15:27 <+Amaranth> :/
15:27 < ezdiy> to save things on disk
15:27 <+md_5> I think I'm just gonna leave, this is sad
15:27 < pbunny> ezdiy: i don't have anything against world save
15:27 < pbunny> but disk shouldn't be engaged in normal server operation
15:27 <+md_5> ...?
15:27 <+md_5> .....
15:27 <+md_5> .....
15:27 < pbunny> i.e. read stuff frmo it
15:27 < edk> I googled: that phenomenon when stupid people think they are clever
15:27 < ezdiy> pbunny: world save is just saving changes in bulk
15:27 < pbunny> unload chunks
15:27 < pbunny> etc
15:27 < edk> found it. first result
15:28 < pbunny> ezdiy: yes
15:28 < edk> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
15:28 < ezdiy> pbunny: ok, again, you dont need to unload chunks :)
15:28 < pbunny> edk: are you clever?
15:28 <+Amaranth> ezdiy: Minecraft actually does a lot of things in ways that "common sense" would tell you are not the most optimal but end up actually being such
15:28 < Grum> 15:27:17 < ezdiy> and notch is exceptionally bad programmer  <-- not true
15:28 < ezdiy> Amaranth: trust me, i know
15:28 < pbunny> ezdiy: tell that to TkTech md_5 and Grum  :()
15:28 < pbunny> :)
15:28  * pbunny grabs popcorn
15:28 < Grum> notch is an exceptionally MESSY programmer
15:28 < ezdiy> pbunny: frankly, chunks are unloaded because those are cpu hog
15:28 < dx> "exceptionally bad programmer"? seriously? we have one exceptionally bad programmer here, and notch isn't as bad as him
15:29 < ezdiy> when chunk is loaded, it runs the ticker
15:29 < Grum> also, he has more $ than you have milligrams of bodyweight
15:29 < ezdiy> and there can tick only so many chunks in single thread
15:29 <+Amaranth> Grum: I was trying to segue into saying a mediocre programmer but a good designer :P Messy works too though, that is definitely true
15:29 < pbunny> ezdiy: oh, so you are one of them :(
15:29 < pbunny> you don't understand the problem of chunk unloading
15:29 < Grum> he hasnt designed a single aspect of the codebase
15:29 < Grum> but meh thats what i'm fixing now ;)
15:29 < edk> Grum: appeal to majority, not a good argument
15:29 < edk> not to say you're wrong
15:29 < edk> but arguing fallacies is what pbunny is doing :P
15:29 <+md_5> Did you know processors can run infinite threads at once
15:30 < jast> fallacies are awesome
15:30 <+md_5> That's what makes his threading model so effective
15:30 < jast> I know that because they clearly are
15:30 < edk> md_5: infinite threads = INFINITE POWER!oneoneoneoneoneoneone
15:30 < ezdiy> jast: for persistent trolls indeed
15:30 < ezdiy> :)
15:30 < dx> jast++
15:30 < pbunny> edk md_5 : please stay serious
15:30 < jast> okay, let me make a stronger argument
15:30 < edk> ++jast; // a c++ programmer told me this was more efficient
15:30 < jast> fallacies are awesome because everything else is stupid
15:30 < Grum> fallusies are better
15:30 <+Amaranth> Grum: I was talking more about high level stuff
15:31 < dx> ++(*(&jast)) /* thanks stack overflow */
15:31 < pbunny> **:25:29        +md_5 | Did you know processors can run infinite threads at once
15:31 < pbunny> LOL
15:31 < pbunny> no they can't
15:31 < pbunny> OS can.
15:31 < jast> no it can't
15:31 < pbunny> you can't just feed multiple code streams to a CPU.
15:31 <+md_5> You said that yourself..... back when we first met
15:31 <+Amaranth> Grum: Like chunks, their in memory format, and some other stuff
15:31 < pbunny> md_5: no.
15:31 <+md_5> I'm gonna use each thing in a new thread so it doesn't lag and I get good performance
15:32 < pbunny> lies.
15:32 <+Amaranth> I already know of a minecraft server that started with that idea and then tried to make a real thing out of it
15:32 < Grum> Amaranth: yeah some things are ok
15:32 < pbunny> it was something like: "i'm using a thread for every chunk now for better debugging"
15:32 < Grum> some are semi suboptimal :)
15:32 < dx> write a bytecode parsing virtual machine, make it run every single bytecode in a different thread = infinite performance!
15:32 <+Amaranth> Grum: The networking model is actually good too
15:33 < Grum> not really
15:33 <+Amaranth> The implementation is shit but the model is good
15:33 < Grum> it sucks hard :p
15:33 < Grum> meh not really
15:33 < Grum> has already been improved a ton
15:33 < Grum> (for example for xbox where traffic matters)
15:33 <+Amaranth> I meant the overall sync vs async stuff
15:33 <+Amaranth> Which will probably get me crucified in here
15:33 < dx> Grum: interesting, i'll have to look at the xbox protocol
15:33 <+Amaranth> dx: xbox cheats
15:33 < dx> Amaranth: hm?
15:34 <+Amaranth> It knows you can't cheat so all of the players share in running the server
15:34 < Grum> it cheats a lot
15:34 < dx> oh.
15:34 < edk> let's play the pbunny quotes about threading game
15:34 < edk> <pbunny> so, what are the problems with threads except they are too hard for you? :)
15:35 <+Amaranth> Fixed size map, fixed client, no central server
15:35 < dx> sick burn
15:35 < edk> <pbunny> so, what are the problems with threads except they are too hard for you? :)
15:35 < edk> oops
15:35 < edk> <pbunny> edk: i was planning to use separate threads for entities
15:35 < edk> <pbunny> it can run thousands of threads if it needs
15:35 < pbunny> thousands != thread for every entity
15:35 < pbunny> sheesh
15:35 < edk> <pbunny> people hating threads and mutexes just had a few occasions when they failed to design mutex pattern well and their code sucked
15:35 <+Amaranth> edk: Obviously the ideal is a thread per chunk
15:35 < dx> >not a thread per block
15:35 <+md_5> Nah thread power entity
15:36 < Grum> depends on the definition of a chunk
15:36 < ShaRose> 2 threads for every entity!
15:36 <+Amaranth> Grum: Current definition, don't go redefining words :D
15:36 <+md_5> I'm out
15:36 <+md_5> Bye
15:36 <+md_5> Have fun
15:36 < dx> bye
15:36 < edk> md_5: o/
15:36 <+md_5> Don't commit suicide
15:36 < edk> might be hard
15:37 <+md_5> Call the helpline and explain situation
15:37 < dx> loling
15:37 <+Amaranth> This dota stream switches from enya to bastion OST to tom petty for the music between games
15:37 <+Amaranth> This is some kind of tournament too
15:37 < SinZ> md_5: they would give you the bullet...
15:39 <+Amaranth> btw the feature I was thinking of to run .class files directly was the binfmt kernel module
15:39 < pbunny> edk: any more of compromat?
15:40 <+Amaranth> <pbunny> Amaranth: no, stack allocation is malloc :)
15:40 <+Amaranth> Quote of the year right there
15:40 < dx> what's a heap
15:41 <+Amaranth> edk: It isn't threads but I think I still win
15:41 < dx> Amaranth: unrelated, were you the one who was asking here for ideas on how to have less-than-1-byte-per-block efficient in-memory chunk storage?
15:41 < dx> months ago probably
15:41 < edk> Amaranth: *hands over crown*
15:41 <+Amaranth> dx: Less than 3 bytes per block actually
15:42 < dx> hm, right
15:42 <+Amaranth> dx: I ended up settling on a system that is a slightly more advanced version of what someone did for CraftBukkit in MC 1.1 times
15:42 < dx> Amaranth: mc beta 1.1? details?
15:42 <+Amaranth> Not beta 1.1
15:42 <+Amaranth> https://github.com/amaranth/CraftBukkit/blob/5e0112aa5be186c1a7b258fc7a6295af1fc3e07a/src/main/java/org/bukkit/craftbukkit/util/Palette.java
15:43 < dx> oh, so pre-anvil
15:43 <+Amaranth> afaik there is no MC code in that file so it's safe to look at :P
15:43 < dx> lol "safe to look at"
15:43 <+Amaranth> dx: Yeah but a part of the change to implement this in 1.1 involved converting chunks to a cube stack anyway and still working on 16^3 sections
15:45 <+Amaranth> Oh wow line 33 in that file is kind of derp
15:45 <+Amaranth> Oh well :P
15:45 < dx> heh
15:47 < dx> Amaranth: hmm not sure if i'm getting it right, you're limiting the data type of the block array to 4 / 8 / 16 bits depending on what's used, and, uh, what's the "palette" for?
15:47 < dx> oh wait
15:48 <+Amaranth> hehe
15:48 < dx> if there's a palette, then the block array can be up to 15 different kinds of blocks with any data and it's stored as nibbles, right?
15:49 <+Amaranth> Not even close
15:49 < dx> if i got it right then i like it
15:49 < dx> aw :(
15:49 < pbunny> Amaranth: you can allocate a stack (of some emulated function) with malloc.
15:49 < dx> pbunny: what's your definition of stack?
15:50 < pbunny> dx: memory area with arguments passed to function (and return value iirc)
15:50 <+Amaranth> dx: The actual block data is stored in the palette, one entry per unique id/data/light/skylight value in the chunk section. The blocks array contains indices into the palette array
15:50 <+Amaranth> dx: Think GIF
15:50 < dx> Amaranth: oh, yeah, that's what i meant, but didn't consider that light/skylight would be there too. nice
15:51 <+Amaranth> Since each palette entry has 4 bytes available and we only need 3 I use the last byte is a counter for efficiency
15:51 <+Amaranth> Except I special case the counter getting to 255 and consider it "permanent" and no longer change the count
15:52 < dx> Amaranth: but wouldn't including light (from torches maybe) expand the palette a lot?
15:53 <+Amaranth> dx: This is Grum's argument too :D
15:53 <+Amaranth> iirc he wanted it to only be for id/data and store lighting separately
15:54 <+Amaranth> But there are more cases where storing lighting like this uses less memory than cases where it uses more, I think
15:54 < dx> yeah, either method could be more efficient in different cases
15:54 < dx> definitely true for naturally generated worlds, but for a flat one where everything is player built, you're going to have torches on everything
15:55 < pbunny> isn't it optimal to store light in ready-to-send-to-clients format?
15:55 < pbunny> so you can just deflate a chunk and send
15:55 < pbunny> without additional operations
15:55 < dx> we're talking about something you'd never consider, in-memory storage optimization
15:56 <+Amaranth> dx: You still have to have over ~900 unique blocks out of the 4096 possible before this starts using more memory iirc
15:56 <+Amaranth> More memory vs the current vanilla implementation anyway
15:57 <+Amaranth> dx: But anyway, when you asked about it where you wanting to see if I figured anything out or wanting to report something you figured out? :)
15:57 < dx> Amaranth: wanted to see if you figured it out :P
15:57 <+Amaranth> ah
15:58 <+Amaranth> Well due to the count system there can be scenarios where I have duplicate entries in the palette and bloat RAM usage
15:58 <+Amaranth> Since the binary search was modified to consider empty entries a match
15:59 < dx> 'empty entries'? of the palette?
15:59 <+Amaranth> But overall the count helps to ensure I avoid having to call compressPalette so much
15:59 <+Amaranth> Yeah
15:59 <+Amaranth> I use the last byte of the palette entry as a counter of how many blocks in the chunk are using it
16:01 <+Amaranth> Any improvement ideas are welcome though
16:03 < dx> compressPalette looks like a harmless loop that iterates over blocks and copies each one to a new object
16:04 <+Amaranth> But remember each call to setRawData calls getEntryPosition
16:05 < dx> oh, getEntryPosition
16:05 < dx> i had no idea who to blame for the performance hit :D
16:05 <+Amaranth> getEntryPosition and the things it calls are where all the magic is
16:06 <+Amaranth> But also where most of the CPU time is :P
16:07 <+Amaranth> It's most commonly just a binary search over the palette though
16:07 <+Amaranth> And the palette usually isn't very big so it's log N with a tiny N
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16:21  * TkTech reads the backlog
16:21  * TkTech cries laughing 
16:22 < SinZ> wb
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16:24 < TkTech> Amaranth, Is that even worth it? The size vs time doesn't seem like it would be.
16:24 <+Amaranth> TkTech: That is the question
16:24 <+Amaranth> It is a rather large reduction in memory usage
16:25 <+Amaranth> Rough measurements of overall server memory usage make me think somewhere around 60% reduction
16:25 <+Amaranth> (in a "typical" world)
16:26 < TkTech> When would you use it? Just on recently-used sections you want to keep in memory?
16:26 < TkTech> (but not active sections)
16:26 <+Amaranth> I haven't had time to finish verifying it works correctly though let alone measure the memory and CPU differences precisely
16:27 <+Amaranth> TkTech: I would use it everywhere :P
16:27 <+Prf_Jakob> online compression?
16:27 <+Prf_Jakob> or what?
16:27 <+Amaranth> Prf_Jakob: More or less
16:27 < TkTech> Amaranth, Everything is just speculation until you've got it working, but at a guess I don't think it'll be worthwhile for active sections.
16:27 <+Amaranth> TkTech: Well it definitely works
16:28 <+Amaranth> I can load existing maps and generate new ones with apparently no issues
16:28 <+Amaranth> TkTech: I know it'll just more CPU, the question is how much and is that worth the RAM savings
16:29 <+Prf_Jakob> if you can offload the compression to another CPU then its totally worth it
16:29 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob, I haven't heard good things about Java and multicore.
16:29 <+Amaranth> My unit test has me fairly confident it is all working correctly but I haven't done a lot of in game testing
16:29 < TkTech> Amaranth, Right, I get that, I'm just speculating that it'll be worthwhile for less-active chunks.
16:32 <+Amaranth> TkTech: Well for reading chunk data I don't see it being noticeably slower
16:33 < TkTech> Amaranth, Keep in mind there are a few servers with 100+ users. They can easily toss more RAM at the problem, but disk contention and CPU will become the problem.
16:33 <+Amaranth> TkTech: Oh, I'm well aware
16:33 < TkTech> Amaranth, I just think it should be configurable/tunable, don't just turn it on for everything always
16:33 <+Amaranth> Sure
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16:36 <+Amaranth> TkTech: Although depending on the benchmark data that may not be needed either
16:37 <+Amaranth> But the plan was to make it configurable just if nothing else from a "this might destroy your world" perspective if it ever got added to something
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18:04 < toqueteos> oh god, why did notch invent his own new trigonometry? fuck him!
18:05 < SinZ> howso
18:05 < Calinou> you can't fuck notch, he's married
18:05 < SinZ> ^
18:05 < TkTech> Calinou, He's divorced.
18:05 < Calinou> I know :P
18:05 < Calinou> lol
18:05 < Calinou> ez married him for the money :>
18:05 < TkTech> Is that a Republican "I Know"?
18:05 < toqueteos> correct me if i'm wrong please
18:05 < Calinou> no, I said "I know" while wearing iron armor, not diamond armor
18:06 < Calinou> only republicans use diamond armor
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18:06 < SinZ> uhh, wern't they engaged before Minecraft went huge
18:06 < toqueteos> whenever a server sees a PlayerLook (0x0C) packet it should send Entity Look (0x20) to nearby players, am i right?
18:06 < TkTech> SinZ, Yes, Calinou is just being retarded.
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18:09 < Calinou> in august 2011 or so
18:09 < Calinou> MC was already huge
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18:10 < SinZ> well, not nearly as huge as it is now, and they were engage long before then
18:11 < SinZ> engaged*
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18:48 < Knux14> Hi everyone
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18:57 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob, Oo, planetary control.
18:59 <+Prf_Jakob> I hope they deliver on what they promised
19:00 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob, Uh oh, friendly fire.
19:00 < TkTech> All it takes is one dick with a Dreadnaught…
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19:47 < toqueteos> guys how are floats packed into a single byte? http://wiki.vg/Protocol#Spawn_Named_Entity_.280x14.29 i searched and i found nothing...
19:48 < Thinkofdeath> toqueteos: https://github.com/thinkofdeath/netherrack/blob/master/player/event.go#L21 
19:49 < toqueteos> Thinkofdeath: hey! it's on github, congrats
19:49 < Thinkofdeath> :)
19:49 < toqueteos> so that's that weird 2p/256 step thingy
19:50 < Thinkofdeath> yeah
19:50 < toqueteos> jesus
19:50 < toqueteos> thanks buddy
19:50 < toqueteos> why do you convert to int yaw but not pitch?
19:50 < Thinkofdeath> I think the pitch should be the same as yaw it just hasn't been an issue yet
19:51 < toqueteos> oh i see
19:51 < toqueteos> "don't touch it if it's working"
19:51 < Thinkofdeath> :P
19:53 < toqueteos> Thinkofdeath: your UnsafeConnection interface is HUGE
19:53 < Thinkofdeath> I'm changing it at some point
19:54 < toqueteos> le agenda feis
19:54 < toqueteos> oups, wrong channel
20:07 < zutto> intresting, someone actually doing something with go
20:08 < Thinkofdeath> Two people :)
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20:17 < TkTech> zutto, Lots of go projects for minecraft.
20:18 < zutto> i dont really pay attention to minecraft projects.. or any new projects actually
20:19 < zutto> but go is supposed to become "the new C", and its intresting to see if it falls like dart did
20:20 < Kyle> TkTech: double the wild TkTech 
20:21 < toqueteos> im the other Go guy
20:22 < zutto> i see
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21:40 < TkTech> toqueteos, Well, it's not just you two, there's 27+ public minecraft-related go repos on github alone.
21:40 < toqueteos> i was late, Thinkof.. said 2 people
21:41 < toqueteos> there's chunkymonkey and a lot of forks abandoned
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00:32 < TkTech> Dinnerbone, I'd love to know what you pay in bandwith for sticking an image on twitter from your own site :>
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09:32 <+md_5> pbunny if you join #spigot on espernet I have a friend for you
09:32 <+md_5> trying to make his MC server cater for a stupid amount of players >:D
09:32 < Zachoz> lol ^ :P
09:32 <+md_5> almost as stubborn as you
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10:07 < pbunny> md_5: "stupid amount of players" - more than 100?
10:07 < pbunny> okay boss
10:07 <+md_5> pbunny more than ten times that
10:07 < pbunny> i am going to support thousands
10:07 <+md_5> also vanilla server can run 450 players at full speed
10:07 < pbunny> md_5: it can't.
10:08 < pbunny> otherwise there would be such servers
10:08 < pbunny> currently i haven't seen >100 players max
10:08 <+md_5> well you havent looked hard enoug
10:08 < pbunny> link plz
10:08 <+md_5> http://gontroller.com/
10:08 <+md_5> been there, worked with owner, seen 20tps @450
10:08 <+md_5> suck it iup
10:09 <+md_5> (I program a customized fork of the stock server)
10:09 <+md_5> (emphasis on performance)
10:09 <+md_5> (so not quite vanilla, but still shitty old java where you cant use malloc to allocate stack memory)
10:10 < pbunny> why not use good language then?
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10:10 < pbunny> using java for performance is like using wheelchair for karate
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10:12 < jast> using C to 'fix' a problem of algorithmic complexity is like buying the most expensive car there is to be faster than light
10:12 < Flemmard> pbunny: i'm sure jackie chan can use a wheelchair for that .. :P
10:12 <+md_5> why did I start this
10:13 < jast> md_5: insanity is hard to resist when it keeps knocking at your door ;)
10:13 < pbunny> jast: java problems lie in its interpretativeness, range checking, exceptions, oop, etc
10:13 < pbunny> not algorithms
10:13 < pbunny> you can implement any algorithm in C
10:13 < jast> that is not at all what I was talking about
10:14 < pbunny> jast: java doesn't have threads ...
10:14 < pbunny> that alone is a reason to dump it
10:14 < jast> I'm not a java fan by any stretch... but not using java doesn't solve the problems that aren't caused by java in the first place
10:14 < jast> threads are pretty worthless anyway
10:14 < pbunny> right. who needs 2 cores nowadays
10:15 < pbunny> jast: the problems with vanilla server is not algorithm complexity
10:15 <+md_5> jast this is coming from a guy who didnt know most java code is compiled to native code not interpreted
10:15 < pbunny> the problem is slow performance of algorithms that are implemented in java
10:16 <+md_5> HOTSPOT COMPILES IT TO NATIVE CODE JUST AS WELL AS GCC DOES
10:16 < pbunny> because java does many useless stuff like range checking etc
10:16 < jast> people who use threads are all like, hey, threads are so much more lightweight than processes, lolol, let's use threads to fix everything
10:16 < pbunny> md_5: please don't caps
10:16 < pbunny> take medicine whatever
10:16 < jast> (light green threads excluded)
10:16 < jast> md_5: if it's JIT it doesn't exist!
10:16 <+md_5> > has been in this channel for longer than you have been able to program C
10:16 < pbunny> jast: i use threads to utilize multiple CPU cores.
10:16 <+md_5> please dont tell me off
10:17 < pbunny> > has been programming in C when md_5 wasn't even born
10:17 <+md_5> jast processor can run 1/0 threads at once
10:17 <+md_5> just thread everything for better scalability
10:17 < jast> md_5: that's a poor argument. just because others are using poor arguments, you don't have to stoop to that, too. :}
10:17 < pbunny> md_5: no.
10:17 < pbunny> please stop thinking out stuff about me
10:17 < jast> md_5: NaN
10:17 < pbunny> i am going to use thread number that is equal to number of cpu cores.
10:18 < pbunny> well, at most - 3 times the cores number
10:18 < pbunny> for better load balancing
10:18 <+md_5> why would you use 3 times the core number
10:18 < jast> the problem with vanilla server is not algorithmic complexity, but the problem with your server will be
10:18 < pbunny> md_5: server will run many worlds
10:18 <+md_5> when processors can only run core*2 with hyperthreading
10:18 < jast> you'll notice once it goes live
10:18 < pbunny> i don't want to implement cross-world thread chunks
10:19 < pbunny> so, if number of worlds will be >= number of cores, every world will get only 1 thread
10:19 < pbunny> and, as some worlds will be much heavier than others, everything will be unbalanced
10:19 < pbunny> if i will run more threads, i can assign more threads to heavy worlds
10:20 < pbunny> the only alternative is implementing cross-world chunk handling in threads
10:21 < pbunny> there will be many worlds, i.e. temprary dream worlds
10:21 < pbunny> temporary *
10:22 < pbunny> they will be unique to any player asleep
10:23 < jast> so, I've been wondering... how are you going to do global light updates for a 10000x10000 world during sunrise/sunset
10:23 < jast> where the lighting changes every <20 ticks
10:28 < pbunny> jast: server doesn't send light updates during sunrise/sunset
10:28 < pbunny> client handles it itself
10:28 < pbunny> server only updates lighting for caves, torches, etc
10:29 < pbunny> otherwise it would be a traffic hog
10:29 < jast> the server needs to know the new light level at cave entrances, below overhangs, etc., doesn't it?
10:29 < pbunny> jast: there is "light" field, and "skylight" field
10:29 < pbunny> and they are persistent during day time changes
10:29 < jast> yeah, and skylight influences light
10:29 < pbunny> yeah.
10:29 < pbunny> its persistent
10:29 < pbunny> its relative to day time
10:29 < jast> yes, but not exactly
10:29 < pbunny> totally exactly.
10:30 < jast> suppose you have a cave entrance and there's a torch somewhere near it
10:30 < jast> so the blocklight of a nearby block will be max(skylight,attenuated-light-of-torch)
10:30 < pbunny> yes, so?
10:30 < jast> never mind
10:30 < pbunny> :)
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15:21 < pbunny> anybody feels like helping me find annoying deadlock condition?
15:21 < pbunny> :)
15:24 < pbunny> md_5: maybe you
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15:25 < pbunny> the funny thing is - deadlock doesn't happen when i run server through valgrind's drd tool (which detects such conditions)
15:26 < jast> threads are sooo simple, amirite
15:26 < pbunny> ah, it happened. drd haven't found any problems though
15:27 < jast> well, it obviously detects only *some* race conditions
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15:34 < pbunny> hm, i think it couldn't detect it because i lock with trylock polling there
15:34 < pbunny> sometimes trylock fails forever though
15:51 < pbunny> http://dpaste.org/9k7Gj/raw/
15:51 < pbunny> deadlock happened on line "locking chunk 3x0 from chunk 1x0"
15:51 < pbunny> any ideas?
15:52 < edk> I don't know
15:52 < edk> threads are very easy, but since you are the only person smart enough to think so, you'll have to manage
15:53 < pbunny> i never said threads are easy
15:53 < pbunny> so, any ideas?
15:54 < edk> well, I might make a diagram of my locking logic
15:54 < edk> it usually simplfies things
15:54 < edk> i'm not going to trawl through your debug log
15:54 < pbunny> :/
15:55 < pbunny> diagram is impossible due to complexity
15:55 < jast> it's not like a debug log would help anyway
15:55 < pbunny> jast: its more readable than my C code to you
15:56 < jast> ... and suddenly I'm no longer interested in trying to help
15:56 < pbunny> ?
15:56 < pbunny> i pasted the log because its easy to read
15:56 < pbunny> i respect your time.
15:57 < jast> well, it's easy to read, but probably doesn't contain the necessary information
15:58 < jast> the problem with debug logs is that you don't know which information you have to add if you don't know where the problem happens ;)
15:59 < pbunny> the deadlock happens in MUTEX_SAFELOCK(safelocked,&chunk->entities_mutex,&xchunk->entities_mutex); after several seconds of stress-testing by 10 clients
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15:59 < pbunny> MUTEX_SAFELOCK is function that uses trylock poll with unlocking own mutex, sleeping, then locking again
15:59 < pbunny> this purpose was to prevent deadlocks -.-
16:00 < edk> what happens if two MUTEX_SAFELOCK calls do that at once?
16:00 < pbunny> edk: some of them succeeds first
16:00 < pbunny> one *
16:01 < pbunny> they sleep by random intervals
16:01 < pbunny> http://dpaste.org/Wzmy5/
16:02 < pbunny> are deadlocks possible there?
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16:04 < edk> probably
16:04 < pbunny> how?
16:04 < edk> i can't be bothered to work it out :P
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16:04 < edk> fwiw, your debug call invokes undefined behaviour
16:04 < pbunny> ?
16:04 < pbunny> why?
16:05 < edk> %p has to be a void pointer
16:05 < edk> (i don't think this is likely to be the issue at all, just mentioning it)
16:05 < pbunny> no, i never pass NULL mutexes
16:05 < jast> pretty much every compiler will automatically cast that
16:05 < pbunny> aah
16:05 < pbunny> no, gcc haven't issued any warnings
16:06 < jast> I think it takes a few extra options for gcc to complain about that
16:06 < jast> it's kind of pointless to warn about that anyway
16:06 < pbunny> edk: no, deadlock isn't happening in safelock()
16:06 < pbunny> its somewhere else..
16:06 < edk> then you're making two mutexes wait for each other
16:07 < edk> i can't possibly figure out which ones from your log
16:07 < edk> sorry
16:07 < edk> two threads holding mutexes wait for each other *
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16:07 < pbunny> safelock() unlocks own mutex while waiting
16:08 < pbunny> so other safelock can succeed during that period
16:08 < pbunny> then first safelock() will wait on locking own mutex
16:08 < pbunny> hmm, it actually happens somewhere in safelock
16:09 < pbunny> and it looks like it deadlocks in 2 safelocks simultaneously
16:09 < pbunny> o.O
16:09 < pbunny> any better way to implement safelock() ?
16:13 < edk> without seeing how you use it in your code, "don't" would be my first instinct
16:13 < pbunny> don't lock anything?
16:13 < edk> don't use safelock
16:13 < pbunny> what to use then?
16:13 < pbunny> i need a way to lock other chunk's mutex while keeping own mutex locked
16:14 < edk> then you need to make sure that chunk is not also trying to lock your mutex
16:14 < edk> i don't think any simple function like safelock can solve that problem.
16:15 < edk> especially where you let go of your own mutex. both chunks could do it at once, both "win", and both not be able to get their own mutex back
16:15 < pbunny> both chunks can't win.
16:15 < pbunny> trylock always happens while own mutex is locked
16:16 < pbunny> see the function
16:16 < edk> true. i guess the deadlock is more complex then
16:16 < edk> but again, i can't really work this out without seeing your code
16:16 < edk> and i don't want to anyway, i have better things to do
16:18 < pbunny> i will try unlocking more stuff
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16:19 < pbunny> i.e. don't keep mutexes for entities_count locking during entire loop
16:19 < pbunny> locked *
16:19 < pbunny> its sufficient to lock->get entities_count->unlock at the end of every iteration i think
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16:50 < pbunny> lol, fixed by not keeping entities_mutex locked during loop
16:50 < pbunny> not deadlocks now
16:50 < pbunny> no *
16:55 < pbunny> shouldn't cause any problems, right? :)
16:55 < pbunny> per-entity mutexes are being locked before modification
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17:19 < pbunny> hehe, server with world with 100 players each teleporting randomly within 160x160x256 area every second uses 10mb of RAM and 1% CPU
17:19 < pbunny> oh, its 11MB now
17:19 < pbunny> Grum: how is your java doing
17:20 < pbunny> and yeah, its running in 100+ threads now, in production it will consume less resources
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17:25 < pbunny> 44MB for 500 clients :3
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18:12 < rom1504_> pbunny: you implemented basics functionnality ?
18:13 < rom1504_> building, destroying blocks for example ?
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18:18 < rom1504_> if trolls.lv:1337 is up to date, it seems not
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18:39 < pbunny> rom1504_: i am remaking the server
18:39 < pbunny> everything except mobs and plants growth is implemented in first version
18:39 < pbunny> i will take it from there
18:44 < pbunny> rom1504_: trolls.lv:6666 is the up-to-date first version of server
18:44 < pbunny> but it's buggy
18:44 < pbunny> feel free to test
18:46 < rom1504_> well when i connected it seemed i kept teleportating, and when I left clic I was kicked with a "we will warn the FBI" kind of message ^^
18:47 < rom1504_> oh
18:47 < rom1504_> no ok
18:47 < rom1504_> i connected to trolls.lv:1337
18:47 < rom1504_> i'll try trolls.lv:6666
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19:27 < pbunny> is it ok to send client multiple named entities (0x14) with same names?
19:27 < pbunny> second client sometimes gets weird epilepsy problem when first is already there
19:33 < Grum> pbunny: oh so you did implement redstone fully?
19:33 < Grum> and worldgeneration?
19:33 < Grum> and relighting of areas?
19:34 < pbunny> Grum: world generation - yes, come and have a look
19:34 < pbunny> relightning - partially
19:34 < pbunny> redstone not yet
19:34 < Grum> fluids?
19:34 < pbunny> ?
19:34 < Grum> water/lava?
19:34 < Grum> their interactions?
19:34 < pbunny> yes, without physics
19:34 < pbunny> no.
19:35 < pbunny> your point?
19:35 < Grum> any physics at all?
19:35 < pbunny> yes.
19:35 < pbunny> i.e. of dropped items
19:35 < Grum> no water-flows i guess?
19:35 < pbunny> no.
19:35 <+ammar2> his point is you're doing a fraction of the work the vanilla server does. Now is not the time to be flaunting around cpu usage/mem usage
19:35 < pbunny> ammar2: sure.
19:36 < Grum> also 44mb for 500 clients, they are all in the same area then
19:36 < pbunny> Grum: no, they were teleporting randomly to random 0-10 chunks z and 0-10 chunks x
19:36 < pbunny> they got chunks bulk, entity updates etc
19:37 < pbunny> 1 time per second per client
19:37 < Grum> how much bandwidth did that generate?
19:37 < pbunny> haven't measured
19:37 < pbunny> its localhost
19:37 < Grum> how much chunks loaded around each player?
19:37 < Grum> the normal 19x19?
19:37 < pbunny> Grum: radius is 2 for now
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19:37 < Grum> yeaaah ok
19:37 < pbunny> i tested mutexes mainly
19:38 < pbunny> they were teleporting between random chunks hosted by different threads
19:38 < Grum> they've had 500+ people on the 'java server' too with viewdistance of 2 :)
19:38 < pbunny> Grum: ok, just connect to trolls.lv:6666
19:38 < pbunny> there's a near-complete world
19:38 < pbunny> and it uses like 120MB now
19:38 < pbunny> for everything
19:38 < Grum> what protocol version?
19:38 < Grum> 1.5.1?
19:38 < pbunny> yes
19:38 < pbunny> protocol version 60
19:39 < pbunny> you will have to register there though
19:39 < pbunny> ( no email confirmation yet )
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19:51 < pbunny> ok, it isn't stable as i mentioned :) thats why second version is needed
19:52 < pbunny> btw memory usage jumped to 1.6GB
19:52 < pbunny> probably somebody teleported somewhere
19:52 < Grum> little bug?
19:52 < pbunny> i think its just generating the map
19:53 < pbunny> i restarted it
19:53 < pbunny> please don't teleport around
19:53 < Grum> i dont?
19:53 < Grum> i dont even know how to do that
19:53 < Grum> i just disconnected
19:53 < Grum> i was baking iron
19:53 < pbunny> ammar2: was it you? :p
19:54 < pbunny> Grum: various hacks work there, no checking yet
19:54 <+ammar2> pbunny: hmm?
19:54 < pbunny> anybody can teleport if client allows it
19:54 <+ammar2> I connected for a few minutes, tp'd to you two
19:54 < pbunny> ammar2: maybe tp'ed somewhere wrong :)
19:54 < pbunny> ram usage was 1.6GB when it froze
19:54 <+ammar2> o_O
19:57 < pbunny> Grum: are you aware of client bug that shows player's head at yaw 0 regardless of what was received in 0x14 ?
19:57 < pbunny> i have to send headlook packet after 5-10 ticks
19:57 < pbunny> only then head is displayed correctly
19:58 < pbunny> otherwise new player sees heads of all current players turned at 0 until they move or turn
19:59 < Grum> nope, but there are so many weird bugs in that protocol :P
19:59 < pbunny> its more a client thingie :p
20:00 < Grum> same difference for me
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20:26 < toqueteos> hmm may i ask you pbunny how did you got other players moving around working?
20:31 < pbunny> toqueteos: i send entity move, entity look, entity movelook, entity teleport and/or entity headlook (depending on data changed) to nearby players when player's position and/or angle changes
20:32 < pbunny> ah, and entity velocity
20:32 < toqueteos> sorry i did ask that wrong, i send an 0x14 but it seems to do nothing
20:33 < pbunny> 0x14 is used to spawn player initially, not move it
20:33 < toqueteos> i already send all those you mentioned to all others players whenever somea ction is found
20:33 < pbunny> is the player spawned?
20:33 < toqueteos> what do you mean?
20:34 < toqueteos> each player does login succesfully, can move around, use chat, etc.. but if 2+ people login, they can't see each other
20:36 < pbunny> toqueteos: you send 0x14 wrong then
20:36 < toqueteos> yep, seems so :(
20:36 < pbunny> toqueteos: may i see the code of sending 0x14?
20:36 < toqueteos> yeah sure
20:38 < toqueteos> pbunny: it's not my current version because i refactored it to another place but.. this should give you an idea https://github.com/toqueteos/minero/blob/master/server/handle_cd.go#L82
20:38 < toqueteos> after that 0x14 i should send to all nearby players entity move, look, movelook, teleport, etc.. packets right?
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20:39 < toqueteos> there's lots of stuff hardcoded in there, i'm sorry
20:39 < Thinkofdeath> toqueteos: If you want to check if it spawned look at the entity debug on minecraft debug screen (the E: part)
20:39 < Thinkofdeath> *entity count
20:40 < toqueteos> Thinkofdeath: E doesn't change
20:40 < Thinkofdeath> Still 0/1 ?
20:40 < toqueteos> yup
20:41 < toqueteos> but I think I'm sending something ahead of type or some metadata is missing, i'll toy with it a bit more
20:41 < toqueteos> ahead of time*
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20:53 < pbunny> toqueteos: 0x14 is enough to spawn a player
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20:53 < toqueteos> then it's a metadata thing
20:54 < pbunny> toqueteos: write 0 0 127 as meta
20:54 < pbunny> try it
20:55 < pbunny> ( 3 bytes )
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20:57 < toqueteos> pbunny: yay! works
20:58 < toqueteos> crappy metadata impl, it didn't write 127..
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21:00 < toqueteos> thanks pbunny, thanks so much
21:00 < pbunny> toqueteos: client expects at least 1 item of metadata
21:01 < toqueteos> pbunny: i was sending [0 0] only :/
21:01 < pbunny> :)
21:02 < toqueteos> actually.. i was writting 0 0 127, what the heck
21:08 < toqueteos> now player movement is a bit jerky but almost everything works
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21:15 < pbunny> toqueteos: sending entity velocity removed jerkiness for dropped items' jerkiness for me
21:15 < pbunny> may work for players
21:16 < toqueteos> let met try
21:18 < pbunny> any way to spawn named entity without name?
21:18 < pbunny> i tried with "" but the small gray rectangle is still showing above player
21:18 < toqueteos> oh that thing
21:18 < toqueteos> it's on metadata, you can hide the plate
21:19 < toqueteos> Index 6, byte: Show name
21:19 < toqueteos> If 1, the nameplate will be displayed over the entity.
21:19 < pbunny> wow, thx
21:19 < toqueteos> you're welcome :)
21:20 < toqueteos> pbunny: question, do you actually use entity rel move?
21:21 < pbunny> toqueteos: i use it if it moved not more than 3.6 blocks from last (last tick) position iirc
21:21 < pbunny> if more - i use teleport
21:21 < pbunny> toqueteos: be careful with relmove for players though. players send absolute doubles to server
21:22 < pbunny> if you just calculate relative values and send to other players, a float error may accumulate
21:22 < pbunny> in time other players will start seeing the player not where he actually is
21:23 < pbunny> toqueteos: use something like http://dpaste.org/jMWTU/raw/ to workaround
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21:24 < pbunny> this should calculate float errors server side and compensate calculated relatives
21:24 < pbunny> worked for me
21:25 < toqueteos> brb for dinner, i'll check that out in a moment pbunny, thanks!
21:29 < pbunny> toqueteos: are you sure about show name metadata?
21:29 < pbunny> i send 6 0 127 and rectangle is still there
21:29 < toqueteos> http://wiki.vg/Entities#Entity_Metadata_Format
21:29 < pbunny> yes.
21:29 < pbunny> maybe it is meant for  Index 5, string: Name  ?
21:29 < toqueteos> i just copied it
21:30 < toqueteos> i havent tested it, yet
21:30 < pbunny> nm, empty rectangle is okay for now
21:30 < toqueteos> maybe you have to send it inside entity metadata
21:31 < toqueteos> right after a 0x14 packet
21:31 < toqueteos> in NMC everything is possible..
21:31 < pbunny> yep
21:31 < pbunny> disabling gray rectangle is not primary task now, i am doing other things
21:37 < Thinkofdeath> The nameplate can only be disabled on non-player entities
21:39 < toqueteos> really? isnt there a plugin in bukkit to do just that (on players)?
21:40 < Thinkofdeath> Don't think so
21:40 < Yoshi2> I think the game will not show the player's name if that player is sneaking
21:43 < Thinkofdeath> Doesn't it just make it semi-transparent when sneaking?
21:47 < Yoshi2> I'm not sure if the name becomes semi-transparent when you are close to the player, but I remember the name disappearing when you are a distance away from the player
21:47 < Yoshi2> but it's been a while since anybody tried to sneak around me
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21:56 < Guest94889> http://blocks.allowed.org/game/game.html?server=c38cee69f924e0c0280e83abd4c49230&x=4808&y=5179
21:56 < Guest94889> join!
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22:35 < dav1d> Guest94889: nice
22:36 < dav1d> also wanted to do that sometime
22:56 < Guest94889> do what?
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00:11 < toqueteos> pbunny: index 6, type byte isnt 192 0 127??
00:12 < toqueteos> nvm, read that the other way
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16:22 < toqueteos> hi there mcdevs
16:28 < Jailout20001> well hi
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00:36 < toqueteos> any git wizards around?
00:39 <+Prf_Jakob> I know a bit of git yes, shot
00:40 < toqueteos> ok.. so i did a terrible ting
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00:41 < toqueteos> i wanted to change a commit from 15 commits ago
00:41 < toqueteos> so i did a rebase and then used git push -f to update my github repo
00:41 < toqueteos> but i don't know why i wiped out all i did today on that repo
00:41 < toqueteos> why -> how*
00:56 < toqueteos> meh.. i lost today's work, i better redo it :(
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01:45 < TkTech> toqueteos, Next time don't ignore warnings about changing the past.
01:46 < toqueteos> the funnny thing is that all i did today wasn't on my dropbox.. it's not the first time i mess around with git
01:46 < toqueteos> i didn't have time to do a lot so only a thread safe list was lost
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02:25 < mpa1212> Would tutorials from ~A year ago still be applicable to modding now or has the code changed too much?
02:33 < umby24> what does the tutorial cover?
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02:44 < mpa1212> Just basic things like block properties and world gen, I'm just getting into modding.
02:46 < umby24> I don't know much about modding so I can't say for sure, but world gen and block properties shouldn't have changed too much, worldgen.. might have changed though
02:47 < SinZ> Well, alot of internal stuff of mc is getting changed, for the plugin API
02:47 < SinZ> and simply better code
02:48 < mpa1212> SinZ: Would it be worth it to try to learn the current system before they overhaul it?
02:50 < SinZ> you are asking in the wrong channel
02:52 < mpa1212> Ok, thanks. 
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03:56 <+md_5> someone tell him get reflog
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09:29 < nopresnik> edk: Are you there?
09:31 < nopresnik> Or, anyone else who could help with mark2?
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15:16 < ashka> hello there, I had a question about vanilla minecraft
15:17 < ashka> does it sends the hostname entered on the server list ? like, when you connect, it sends the address the user entered with the login packet, but does it do this with the list ping packet ?
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17:55 <+sadimusi> ashka: it does not
17:56 <+sadimusi> ashka: if you were planning to do anything related to virtual hosting, use DNS service records instead
17:57 < ashka> no, it was just to get some info for a bukkit plugin I'm currently making, which make use of so-called vhosts 
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--- Day changed dim. avril 28 2013
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05:18 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1965 11 files : Shortened a few verbose class names. Started moving RealisticManGenGUI from ConfigGUI to fCraftGUI assembly.
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10:06 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1966 17 files : Split IMapGeneratorGuiProvider into an interface and an abstract class, to simplify implementation.
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14:18 < Not-001> [Miners] Wallbraker pushed 3 commits to master [+0/-0/±7] http://git.io/9S19pQ
14:18 < Not-001> [Miners] Wallbraker 66633f4 - charge: Track the TEMP folder as well
14:18 < Not-001> [Miners] Wallbraker bcd0a95 - mc: Borrow Classic Textures as well
14:18 < Not-001> [Miners] Wallbraker ed6908c - mc: Don't require a Modern Texture
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15:24 < Not-001> [Miners] Wallbraker pushed 4 commits to master [+0/-0/±8] http://git.io/tzfZMg
15:24 < Not-001> [Miners] Wallbraker 65132d8 - charge: Track the TEMP folder as well Signed-off-by: Jakob Bornecrantz <wallbraker@gmail.com>
15:24 < Not-001> [Miners] Wallbraker b84a510 - mc/classic: Borrow Classic Textures as well Signed-off-by: Jakob Bornecrantz <wallbraker@gmail.com>
15:24 < Not-001> [Miners] Wallbraker b061382 - mc: Don't require a Modern Texture Signed-off-by: Jakob Bornecrantz <wallbraker@gmail.com>
15:24 < Not-001> [Miners] Wallbraker c7e64be - mc/classic: Fix physic jumping bug Signed-off-by: Jakob Bornecrantz <wallbraker@gmail.com>
15:31 < eddyb> TkTech: does Notifico have some sort of commit limit?
15:32 < eddyb> TkTech: I just pushed 200 commits, because I updated a fork
15:32 < eddyb> and the bot is printing every single fucking one
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16:05 < dav1d> TkTech: iirc there is none
16:05 < dav1d> s/TkTech/eddyb/
16:05 < dav1d> eddyb: ^
16:06 < eddyb> dav1d: #radare and #commits have witnessed the truth of that statement
16:06 < eddyb> dav1d: it went on for 7 minutes
16:07 < dav1d> eddyb: quiet notifico?
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16:08 < eddyb> dav1d: too late. also no ops around (in #radare at least)
16:08 < dav1d> ^oh I though you have op there
16:10 < Not-001> [MinersLauncher] fragmer pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±6] http://git.io/l90Pow
16:10 < Not-001> [MinersLauncher] fragmer 92cc228 - Feature: Added warning when unchecking "Multiple accounts", if multiple accounts are currently remembered. Fix: Unchecking "Multiple accounts" now actually erases account info right away, from disk and memory. Before, it waited until launcher closed. Launcher version is now 1.21
16:14 < Not-001> [Miners] Wallbraker pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/ddX1AQ
16:14 < Not-001> [Miners] Wallbraker 156a58a - mc/classic: Add double jump Signed-off-by: Jakob Bornecrantz <wallbraker@gmail.com>
16:40 < Not-001> [charged.github.com] Wallbraker pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-0/±0] http://git.io/Ba7UxQ
16:40 < Not-001> [charged.github.com] Wallbraker 602360e - changelog: Physics fixes
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17:35 < toqueteos> guys have you confirmed info on this page? http://wiki.vg/SMP_Map_Format#Data
17:39 < toqueteos> i'm having issue sending a single column (0x33)
17:43 < dav1d> toqueteos: If it helps, I have the opposite part of 0x33
17:43 < dav1d> toqueteos: also I think this is correct
17:44 < pbunny> this is correct, i'm sending 0x38 without problems
17:44 < dav1d> https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/brala/network/packets/types.d#L261
17:44 < pbunny> toqueteos: http://dpaste.org/XS3Q1/raw/
17:44 < toqueteos> just to ensure, packed array means if i send 2 sections of a column i just send one after another, right?
17:45 < dav1d> toqueteos: two informations share one byte :P
17:45 < toqueteos> so how do you send a 0x33 containing.. let's say 2 sections
17:45 < toqueteos> you repeat that structure or what?
17:46 < toqueteos> also it doesn't say if you must repeat the biomes array after each section
17:46 < pbunny> toqueteos: look my link for chunk column format
17:46 < toqueteos> meh.. what i thought
17:46 < toqueteos> and you have a special for add bitmask != 0 right?
17:47 < toqueteos> that last one was for pbunny, sorry
17:47 < pbunny> toqueteos: use "Primary Bitmask" in metadata to specify which of 16 chunks are you sending
17:47 < pbunny> i always send 0xff iirc
17:47 < pbunny> empty chunks deflate to near-zero anyway
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17:48 < toqueteos> i see
17:48 < pbunny> and just send 0 for add bitmask
17:48 < toqueteos> i was using 12 for skylight of every block, not the best but just to let it work and 1 for biome
17:48 < toqueteos> and client said i was on ice plains biome (12) that was messing around with my head
17:48 < toqueteos> thanks for the help pbunny and dav1d
17:49 < pbunny> toqueteos: use the struct i provided or similar
17:49 < pbunny> i deflate it as-is and send
17:49 < toqueteos> pbunny: yeah mine is almost the same
17:49 < pbunny> http://dpaste.org/OjXOf/ - the function that sends 0x38 (chunks bulk)
17:49 < pbunny> may be of help
17:50 < toqueteos> https://github.com/toqueteos/minero/blob/master/proto/packet/packet.go#L1393
17:50 < toqueteos> nope.. wrong link
17:51 < toqueteos> pbunny: its hidden in here https://github.com/toqueteos/minero/blob/master/server/login.go#L70, not a struct, just a byte[] right now but it's the same your c struct
18:23 < toqueteos> ffs.. can't get it working
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20:36 < TkTech> eddyb, Smooth
20:36 < TkTech> eddyb, Also, #notifico 
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20:50 < eddyb> TkTech: you mean it flooded a third channel?
20:50 < TkTech> eddyb, What?
20:50 < eddyb> with #notifico
20:50 < eddyb> or you want me to talk about notifico in there?
20:50 < TkTech> No, I mean if you want to talk about #notifico use #notifico.
20:51 < eddyb> right, I see
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21:16 < TkTech> eddyb: (since you're not joining) That's an open ticket, both for allowing channel ops to set an absolute limit and a hook setting to limit it.
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22:43 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 2 commits to master [+6/-0/±9] http://git.io/s5d9Kg
22:43 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 69adb84 - New protocol package
22:43 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath dfd0edf - Moved protocol handling into its own package
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03:30 < Not-001> [MinersLauncher] fragmer pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/GMMRpA
03:30 < Not-001> [MinersLauncher] fragmer e5c395b - Added tests for PasswordSecurity's cipher. Define TEST_ENCRYPTION constant in build configuration to enable.
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11:45 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/sB2MWQ
11:45 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 5d6a5df - Added compile time check for protocol.Conn to make sure it correctly implements soulsand.UnsafeConnection
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15:47 < nopresnik> edk: are you there?
15:51 < nopresnik> edk: Disregard... Fixed my issue.
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18:13  * edk inhales
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19:28 < Deaygo> edk: hyperventilating?  :P
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20:38 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 5 commits to master [+0/-0/±7] http://git.io/7895NA
20:38 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 9a7a8bd - metadata.Type now implements soulsand.EntityMetadata
20:38 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 55d6c1a - Removed old metadata implementation
20:38 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 167acc4 - Added GetEntityMetadata method
20:38 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath a90a9f6 - Added metadata Clone method
20:38 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath cd51dd1 - Player spawning now uses its metadata
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21:49 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 4 commits to master [+0/-0/±7] http://git.io/gIH20g
21:49 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 50bf1bc - Changing the player's gamemode now effects the client
21:49 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 759e324 - Fix a typo in WriteChunkDataUnload
21:49 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 3b830ac - Removed old debug code
21:49 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 540e3ee - Some work on solving #4
21:50 < Thinkofdeath> Maybe adding my project to notifico was a bad idea...
21:51 <+Prf_Jakob> naw
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22:05 < TkTech> Thinkofdeath: I don't see it interrupting anything, ho ho.
22:05 < TkTech> Thinkofdeath: (Plus I'll enable summaries soon, so it doesn't matter)
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22:14 < Thinkofdeath> TkTech: :)
22:14 < EllisVlad> Hi
22:15 < Thinkofdeath> EllisVlad: Hi
22:15 < EllisVlad> Trying to write a server, and it is driving me crazy -.- :P
22:16 < EllisVlad> Chunks just won't send xD
22:16 < Thinkofdeath> Any code we could see?
22:19 < EllisVlad> It's C++ and I have connection and spawning fine, the player joins the server, and then either hangs on the "Downloading Terrain" screen or spawns to an empty world, or gets an illegal packet ID error
22:19 < EllisVlad> I have tried all sorts of things
22:20 < EllisVlad> right now, I have my server set up so that when the client replies with it's 0xCD packet (http://www.wiki.vg/Protocol#0xCD), the server sends the 0x01 packet, and then sends the chunks
22:20 < Thinkofdeath> illegal packet ID error means your sending a packet wrong
22:21 < Thinkofdeath> Also this may help: http://wiki.vg/Protocol_FAQ#What.27s_the_normal_login_sequence_for_a_client.3F 
22:22 < EllisVlad> I get to step 16 fine, then it all breaks :P
22:22 < Thinkofdeath> Can you send the chunk sending part?
22:22 < EllisVlad> yup
22:22 < Thinkofdeath> *show
22:23 < EllisVlad> I'll send a screenshot, so the syntax highlighting stays nice ;)
22:23 < Thinkofdeath> https://gist.github.com/ works too
22:23 < EllisVlad> http://puu.sh/2JDUs.png
22:24 < EllisVlad> and that is called here: http://puu.sh/2JDWn.png
22:24 < eddyb> huh
22:25 < eddyb> YUNO hex?
22:25 < EllisVlad> I thought it might be an issue with C++ being much faster than Java, hence the usleep(1000000)
22:25 < EllisVlad> I sort of mix and max Hex and Dec ...which I know is terrible practive, but it is a habbit now
22:25 < EllisVlad> I sort of mix and max Hex and Dec ...which I know is terrible practice, but it is a habbit now
22:26 < eddyb> EllisVlad: it's very bad practice for values that aren't nice in dec
22:26 < EllisVlad> also, line 58, ignore the '*/'
22:27 < Thinkofdeath> well I may be miss understanding the code but:
22:27 < Thinkofdeath> your x and z are always 0 and 
22:27 < Thinkofdeath> Ground-up continuous is a boolean looks like your using a char? (not sure the size of that)
22:28 < eddyb> EllisVlad: for powers of two and related values, you should always use hex or bitshifts
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22:30 < Thinkofdeath> EllisVlad: Your also sending "add" data you can skip that if you set the add bit map to zero
22:32 < EllisVlad> OH MY GOD!!!
22:32 < EllisVlad> I don't know what I did, but somthing just fixed itself?
22:33 < EllisVlad> http://puu.sh/2JEiw.jpg
22:33 < EllisVlad> :D
22:33 < EllisVlad> and for those interested, my modified code was http://puu.sh/2JEj3.png
22:33 < Thinkofdeath> Still not sure if understand C++ :P
22:34 < EllisVlad> :P
22:34 < Thinkofdeath> Its the "written" part
22:34 < EllisVlad> from line 54?
22:34 < Thinkofdeath> You sent size before 
22:34 < EllisVlad> I can explaine if you like?
22:34 < EllisVlad> so, 98304 is the uncompressed size
22:34 < Thinkofdeath> I saying I think that was your error
22:35 < EllisVlad> oh right, me too xD
22:35 < EllisVlad> haha
22:35 < Thinkofdeath> :)
22:35 < EllisVlad> wow, I have been trying to get that working for weeks!
22:35 < EllisVlad> Thank YOU!!!!
22:35 < EllisVlad> (and you eddyb :D)
22:35 < Thinkofdeath> Your mapdata doesn't look correct btw
22:35 < EllisVlad> why not?
22:36 < Thinkofdeath> looks like data & light are sharing the same index?
22:37 < EllisVlad> ah yes, they are :P but that was just somthing to test this was working ;)
22:37 < Thinkofdeath> ah ok :)
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22:59 < TkTech> EllisVlad: For the sake of future souls, please tell me you're going to macro that :)
22:59 < TkTech> (or at least comment it)
23:01 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 2 commits to master [+1/-0/±3] http://git.io/LYxllw
23:01 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath fafa20c - Moved the main player loop into its own function
23:01 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath c6b6335 - Start of inventory system
23:02 < Thinkofdeath> TkTech: I should do something like that for mine :P
23:03 < Thinkofdeath> https://github.com/thinkofdeath/netherrack/blob/master/chunk/chunkControl.go#L121
23:07 < TkTech> Thinkofdeath: See, yours is actually clearer.
23:07 < Thinkofdeath> ? 
23:07 < TkTech> …in a way. It's obvious how you're getting your offset.
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23:07 < Thinkofdeath> True
23:08 < Thinkofdeath> Still is not easy to understand at first glance
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12:15 < Grum> I thought it might be an issue with C++ being much faster than Java, hence the usleep(1000000) <-- hilarious :p
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21:49 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 2 commits to master [+6/-0/±8] http://git.io/wvDjpg
21:49 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath c3e4621 - Added all inventories from wiki
21:49 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 4a8dd46 - Added checks against soulsand
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22:29 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-0/±6] http://git.io/igIutw
22:29 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 1974fca - Allow inventories to be opens
22:33 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-0/±6] http://git.io/zFuFkQ
22:33 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath bbc98a8 - Allow inventories to be opened
22:34 < Thinkofdeath> Oops, didn't realise it would show again if I amended the commit
22:35 < eddyb> Thinkofdeath: you force pushed, right?
22:35 < Thinkofdeath> yeah
22:36 < eddyb> Thinkofdeath: the bot will trigger anyway
22:37 < Thinkofdeath> eddyb: Ah, ok then
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16:33 < pbunny> http://wiki.vg/Protocol#Set_Slot_.280x67.29
16:33 < pbunny> is 0x67 packet up to date ?
16:34 < pbunny> if i send it with windowid 0, any slot and just -1 as item data - client stops receiving any messages from server (i.e. movements of other players)
16:35 < pbunny> if i send some item aswell - client hangs due to "invalid gzip compression" etc
16:35 < pbunny> used to work in 1.4.*
16:47 < pbunny> oh, client gets "End of stream" error
16:47 < pbunny> in first scenario
16:47 < pbunny> o.O
16:47 < pbunny> Grum: u here?
16:51 < pbunny> nvm, typo in packet macro
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17:22 < Grum> :(
17:36 < pbunny> :)
17:37  * Calinou buys some hardened clay from Grum 
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18:41 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-0/±0] http://git.io/fQkQEg
18:41 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 8691faf - Create README.md
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20:45 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 8 commits to master [+0/-0/±23] http://git.io/3SlKoA
20:45 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath a7bc41b - Removed unused/pointless methods from player
20:45 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath e28a281 - Fix missing short in Set Window Items
20:45 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath bec35db - Allow for nil ItemStacks
20:45 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 1a27984 - Added inventory synchronization between players
20:45 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 2afd5ed - Allow ItemStacks to be created
20:46 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 218dcff - Fixed nil pointer in inventories
20:46 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 54492a7 - Syncing items on inventory open
20:46 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath db665e5 - Fix inventory nil checks
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21:11 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/EuIAoA
21:11 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath bcdf275 - Fix crash when more than one player connects
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22:11 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±5] http://git.io/GWHeRg
22:11 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath a74dd9d - Go fmt'ed and fixed issues found by go vet
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22:39 < EllisVlad> Hello Everyone :)
22:42 < EllisVlad> I made some great progress with my C++ Server, very small footprint, as intended ;)
22:42 < EllisVlad> But I have another question/problem...
22:43 < EllisVlad> What is the best way to go about Terrain Generation
22:44 < EllisVlad> Oh course there are all kinds of ways of making smoothed noise, but how can the generated noisemaps be put together seamlessly to make an infinate world? :S
22:48 < Thinkofdeath> EllisVlad: Might help: http://notch.tumblr.com/post/3746989361/terrain-generation-part-1 its oldish
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05:49 < TkTech> Dammit github.
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14:34 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/7xvFgA
14:34 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 34cbb0e - Fixed typo
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16:04 <+pdelvo> Does someone know the protocol changes from 1.5.1 to 1.5.2?
16:04 <+Prf_Jakob> burger?
16:05 <+pdelvo> Dont have python installed here. b.wiki.vg is not up to date
16:12 <+pdelvo> protocol version is 60 ->61
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16:25 <+pdelvo> Im currently testing with a 1.5.2 client and a 1.5.1 server. I cant find any problems there
16:26 <+pdelvo> @Dinnerbone is there any protocol differences between 60 and 61?
16:38 < dav1d> eddyb: /(R10)|(R\d)|(PC)|(AC)|(MAR)|(MBR)<-/.exec("PC<-xy")
16:38 < dav1d> eddyb: is there a nicer way?
16:39 < dav1d> eddyb: I want the register R0-10, PC, AC, MAR or MBR instead of a crapload of undefined in the result
16:46 < eddyb> lol
16:47 < eddyb> dav1d: put the parens around the | "operator"
16:47 < eddyb> aaaaand what are you doing?
16:47 < dav1d> eddyb: help
16:47 <+pdelvo> okay there is a chance somewhere
16:48 < dav1d> eddyb: Micro16 (mini processor) vm
16:48 <+pdelvo> change*
16:48 < eddyb> /(R10|R\d|PC|AC|MAR|MBR)<-/
16:48 < eddyb> dav1d: that shouldn't be part of a VM, but you go have fun :P
16:48 < dav1d> eddyb: ah awesome
16:49 < dav1d> too used to different regexes
16:49 < Dinnerbone> pdelvo: not really
16:49 < dav1d> eddyb: well I that'll be the pseudo asm for the vm
16:49 < dav1d> I need something to test
16:49 < dav1d> so parser etc. first, then vm
16:50 < eddyb> I already have a powerful platform for what you call "pseudo asm"
16:50 < dav1d> eddyb: ?
16:52 < eddyb> a VM is actually trivial for me, and I already have partial support for x86, armv5 and 8051 (don't ask about the last one, someone gave me a firmware image and the architecture is somewhat simple)
16:52 < eddyb> dav1d: did I tell you about wiREd?
16:52 < dav1d> no
16:53 < eddyb> it might be overkill in your case, but it could also output JS code for given executable code
16:53 < eddyb> which would speed things a lot with the right caching
16:53 < dav1d> oh na
16:53 < dav1d> don't need that^^
16:54 < dav1d> speed doesn't matter
16:54 < eddyb> as I said, overkill :P
16:55 < eddyb> dav1d: it's my decompiler. I have somewhat of a "types and abstract operations" system, and on top of that, opcode definitions for the above mentioned architectures, and an analyzer
16:56 < eddyb> the analyzer is almost arch-agnostic, if it isn't enough for a new arch, you can abstract something else within it (like default stack direction, I got to do that)
17:12 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: Burger is now a dead project
17:12 < TkTech> Also, the damn wiki changes broke again.
17:14 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: aww, why is that
17:14 <+Prf_Jakob> ?
17:14 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: I haven't done anything with it in awhile, sadimusi was the one maintaining and extending it but IIRC he's no longer interested
17:15 <+Prf_Jakob> aww k
17:15 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: The recent refactors broke a lot of it.
17:15 <+Prf_Jakob> shame
17:15 < TkTech> Keep in mind Burger isn't very "smart", it relies on patterns in the bytecode and if the bytecode is severely modified...
17:16 <+sadimusi> I think I have a version that works with the latest version lying around somewhere
17:16 <+sadimusi> I'll push it later in case it still works, now I have to catch a bus
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17:20 < TkTech> sadimusi: <3
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17:33 < dav1d> ok. regex hammer for parsing
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21:04 < toqueteos> question, according to how mca files header work is it possible for a chunk to be 2 sections? http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Region_file_format#Structure
21:04 < toqueteos> a region is supposed to hold 32x32 chunks
21:05 < toqueteos> so why have a 4kB section counter?
21:06 < dexter0> nobody said it was an ideal format :)
21:07 < toqueteos> my god.... having mc's community and they keep snowballing piles of shitcode
21:07 < toqueteos> i don't understand mojang
21:11 < toqueteos> this surely is some kind of realization step for mcdevs, like a "Learn how bad things are and work. SEAL of APPROVAL!"
21:12 < toqueteos> anyway thanks dexter0 i thought there was some kind of dirty hack to allow more chunks to be saved into a region
21:16 < dav1d> eddyb: :)
21:16 < dav1d> eddyb: I think I can correctly assemble now
21:17 < eddyb> great :D
21:20 < dav1d> it's a mess but hey xD
21:21 < dav1d> rewrote that parser 5 times, was thinking of using PEG, then rewriting it again :P
21:21 < dav1d> now it works
21:27 < Yoshi2> you would be snowballing piles of shitcode too if you had a game that was as popular and sold as much as minecraft :P
21:29 < toqueteos> my probably wouldn't have the community mc has, i'll say just optifine
21:29 < toqueteos> and that's 1 little thing
21:31 < toqueteos> if it weren't for projects like bukkit or forge mc wouldn't be such a thing
21:31 < dav1d> toqueteos: ha! the protocol was way worse
21:31 < dav1d> possible datatypes for y: byte, int, short
21:31 < dav1d> wat?
21:31 < dav1d> y u no use one...
21:31 < dav1d> etc. pp.
21:31 < toqueteos> yep i blamed the protocol recently too
21:32 < toqueteos> if they put anvil in the game because it was a nice addition, why isn't anybody suggesting protocol changes?
21:32 < toqueteos> like ffs player digging packet
21:33 < toqueteos> 0x0E*
21:33 < toqueteos> that bastard does like 6 things, then you have "Use Bed" in a single packet
21:33 < toqueteos> 0x11*
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21:58 < dav1d> eddyb: how do I print 10 (dec) as 000001010 with N leading zeros?
21:59 < eddyb> .toString(2) on a number
21:59 < eddyb> no built-in leading zeros thing, but it's really easy to polyfill
21:59 < dav1d> eddyb: yeah that's what I need
21:59 < dav1d> had .toString(2) (which is lol..) 
22:00 < dav1d> but is there a fill operation or a String.format?
22:01 < eddyb> https://gist.github.com/eddyb/74cbf765d2ed2749ea95
22:01 < eddyb> dav1d: there's a format in node.js, but not in the browser
22:01 < dav1d> :/
22:01 < dav1d> ok thanks
22:02 < dav1d> I was hoping of a real fill method
22:02 < dav1d> (a builtin)
22:02 < eddyb> I have a couple of those (left/right), but again, they're polyfills
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22:05 < eddyb> dav1d: https://gist.github.com/eddyb/74cbf765d2ed2749ea95
22:05 < eddyb> I'll go to sleep now, I'm tired and it's late :)
22:05 < dav1d> thanks, might need them
22:05 < dav1d> n8
22:06 < eddyb> dav1d: gl;hf :P
22:06 < dav1d> ha thanks!
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23:56 < mappum> what minecraft version should i be sending in server pings? 1.5, 1.5.1, and 1.5.2 all say "out of date" on the client
23:59 < mappum> nevermind, i was sending the wrong protocol version (now 61)
23:59 < Dinnerbone> The text is just what to show if the protocol version doesn't match
--- Day changed ven. mai 03 2013
00:00 < mappum> right
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00:50 < speechless> is encryption required if you are writing a client?
00:50 < dexter0> yes
00:51 < speechless> what is the maximum complete packet size
00:52 < dexter0> iirc from previous ppl asking that question: it's unbounded.
00:52 < Dinnerbone> ^
00:52 < Dinnerbone> No hard limit
00:53 < Dinnerbone> A server can send you 100s of chunks worth of data in just one packet
00:53 < speechless> k, thanks
00:53 < Dinnerbone> It'd be silly to, but it can
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02:15 < toqueteos> good night
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02:27 < cathode> so a server could crash a client by sending it a packet with a size of 100GB in the header, and the client would try to allocate a 100GB buffer to receive the packet (layer7) ?
02:27 < cathode> or does the MC client handle portions of packets at a time?
02:28 < TkTech> …in the header? What?
02:29 < cathode> doesnt the mc protocol specify how large the packet is in some form of header?
02:29 < TkTech> No.
02:29 < cathode> if it doesn't, it's a dumb protocol
02:29 < SinZ> so its a dumb protocol that doesn't ahve the exploit you just asked about
02:29 < SinZ> have*
02:29 < mappum> there's easier ways to crash the client
02:30 < TkTech> Many easier ways.
02:30 < TkTech> (Not to mention the JVM can't allocate that much memory and allocates a fraction of that by default)
02:31 < mappum> and you would probably crash the server while trying to use that much ram :P
02:31 < mappum> oh, just in the header
02:31 < mappum> well there are only length headers for strings
02:31 < mappum> and it limits it to 240 bytes
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07:11 < dx> hah what
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07:30 < SinZ> dx: nice!
07:30 < SinZ> less arguments here
07:30 < dx> indeed
07:31 < dx> of course, it's not a ban from the channel.. so he might return
07:31 < SinZ> I wanna know what channel informed the ircops
07:31 < dx> and if he does we can tell the ircops again :D
07:33 < dexter0> forgive me for my lack of irc knowledge but does that mean he was network banned?
07:33 < SinZ> yes
07:36 < dx> yeah, i'm guessing the lulzsec.com hostmask is related. i never noticed he had that host before...
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13:46 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: oh btw http://imgur.com/a/A24EF
13:47 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: http://imgur.com/5A9w99u
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14:19 < dav1d> eddyb: easiest way to invert bits?
14:20 < dav1d> eddyb: e.g. I have the number 2 = 10_2 but I want to invert bits 16 bits
14:20 < dav1d> eddyb: 0000000000000010 -> 11111111111111101
14:23 < dav1d> ~((1 << 16) + n)
14:23 < dav1d> probably
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14:30 < eddyb> dav1d: ~x works as if x is int32 - and the result is interpreted as signed (this is valid for all bitwise operation in JS)
14:30 < dav1d> eddyb: that is the twos complement
14:30 < eddyb> (~x) & 0xFFFF might work for you
14:31 < dav1d> eddyb: ~0 == -1
14:31 < dav1d> which is wrong
14:31 < dav1d> well it's not wrong
14:31 < eddyb> it's not wrong
14:31 < dav1d> it's the twos compliement
14:31 < eddyb> it's int32, signed
14:31 < dav1d> *not what I need
14:31 < eddyb> you only need 16 bits?
14:31 < eddyb> (or anything less than 32), just use a mask
14:32 < eddyb> you need uint32, (~x) >>> 0
14:32 < dav1d> I basically want a short
14:32 < eddyb> use the thing with the mask, (~x) & 0xFFFF
14:33 < dav1d> neat
14:33 < dav1d> well not really
14:33 < dav1d> but glad it works
14:33 < eddyb> if you need to use it in a lot of places, function u16(x) {return x & 0xFFFF;}
14:33 < dav1d> was about to implement my own class Short
14:34 < eddyb> it's a bit of an overkill
14:34 < dav1d> https://gist.github.com/Dav1dde/3c90b579083c0fc5eab5
14:34 < dav1d> should do it
14:34 < dav1d> I don't have more operations
14:34 < dav1d> no where else will an operation be performed
14:34 < eddyb> I could adapt mine to work on just numbers, instead of anything
14:34 < dav1d> but that works exactly as I need it
14:34 < dav1d> since I give a shit about overflows anyways
14:42 < eddyb> dav1d: https://gist.github.com/eddyb/19c8aee47b91beb1b88b
14:43 < dav1d> eddyb: I think I was wrong ~X != twos compliment, it's ones compliment, so JS does it as expected?
14:43 < eddyb> it's not twos or ones
14:43 < eddyb> it's interpreted as a signed 32bit integer
14:44 < eddyb> if bit 31 is on, then the number is negative
14:44 < dav1d> eddyb: well it's ones, if you interpret the - correctly (as only 1 left from the number)
14:44 < dav1d> oh
14:44 < dav1d> oh I see
14:44 < eddyb> x >>> 0 is the easiest way to "cast" it to an unsigned 32bit integer
14:46 < eddyb> I was using  x < 0 ? x + BIG_CONST_INT_MAX_THING : x, before I realized the logical shift right (>>>, as opposed to >>, arithmetical shift right, which preserves sign) would work very nicely
14:47 < dav1d> https://gist.github.com/Dav1dde/86304069bd0ae4f5412f
14:47 < dav1d> should work nicely
14:48 < eddyb> well, it's coffee, I prefer ES6, but it looks good
14:49 < dav1d> ^^
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17:18 < TkTech> Been awhile since I asked, but does anyone have a designer/UX friend looking for a job?
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17:42 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: unrelated to your question, but did you see my msg to you? :)
17:43 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: One sec I'll grep
17:43 <+Prf_Jakob> like 4 hours ago :)
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17:54 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: NOOOOOooOoOoOOoOoOo
17:54 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: My golden banana!
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18:05 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: tbh, I think its a great improvement.
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18:11 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: Oh god yes, it looks so much better.
18:11 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: Still, you grow to love the golden banana.
18:11 <+Prf_Jakob> hehe
18:12 < TkTech> The spacing on the weapons and everything actually makes 99% of the ship look like it has a purpose
18:12 < TkTech> Before, most of the ship seemed useless, just flying apartments.
18:12 <+Prf_Jakob> yeah
18:12 <+Prf_Jakob> I see you still haven't optimized for the Destroy/BattleCruiser skill changes...
18:13 < TkTech> That would be because I don't have an active subscription
18:13 <+Prf_Jakob> right
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23:39 < Eloston> Has the protocol version in 1.5.2 changed?
--- Day changed sam. mai 04 2013
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00:17 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 1 commit to master [+3/-1/±3] http://git.io/ZGRDog
00:17 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 770dc67 - New NBT parser
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13:35 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/vhiUNg
13:36 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 28f4faa - Update README.md
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15:26 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 2 commits to master [+1/-0/±6] http://git.io/p4fXDQ
15:26 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 58599c0 - Fix a bug in NBT arrays
15:26 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath c645eee - Basic world loading
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21:18 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±5] http://git.io/HiqCxg
21:18 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 30231dd - Proper section unloading & Minor changes
21:18 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 1ecee48 - Don't create an empty level.dat
21:28 < TkTech> Ac-town: Seen MostAwesomeDude around?
21:28 <+Ac-town> he's around
21:28 <+Ac-town> different nick
21:29 <+Ac-town> but he's also working full time too so he might be busy
21:29 < TkTech> Oh that's right, I forgot he changed it.
21:30 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±3] http://git.io/FYiZzg
21:30 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 632dc88 - Fix errors loading a world without an existing map
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22:13 <+pdelvo> The protocol has not been changed, only the version number was increased
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23:26 < tyteen4a03> is there a mcedit IRC channel somewhere?
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--- Day changed dim. mai 05 2013
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00:43 < tyteen4a03> if not, I'll just leave my question here: Where is Repair Regions in the current version of MCEdit?\
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03:10 < Not-002> [bravo] MostAwesomeDude pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±17] http://git.io/bqFssg
03:10 < Not-002> [bravo] dkkline f4e0264 - Fixed PEP8 E301.
03:10 < Not-002> [bravo] dkkline 55d3919 - Fixed PEP8 E303.
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03:56 < Not-002> [bravo] MostAwesomeDude pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±3] http://git.io/haUF-w
03:56 < Not-002> [bravo] Corbin Simpson 07e1691 - tests: Mark failing tests as expected failures. We'll fix them when we fix them. Fixes #430.
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04:11 < Not-002> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±3] http://git.io/F5OQHQ
04:11 < Not-002> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo 2665649 - protocol version updated to support minecraft 1.5.2
04:11 < Not-002> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo b334a67 - Release 0.10.1
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21:43 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 8 commits to master [+2/-0/±17] http://git.io/CfskRA
21:43 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 7b74739 - Added Regions
21:43 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath b17eb85 - Allow chunks to be loaded in parallel
21:43 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 47fe023 - Fixed a bug with getting regions at negative coordinates
21:43 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 159ec77 - Region unloading
21:43 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 09db96c - Added default locale strings (Fixes #8)
21:43 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 640b973 - Fix chunk unloading issue (finally...)
21:43 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 1dd1e04 - Fixed a bottleneck in chunk loading/unloading
21:43 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 22ae04b - Fixed the chunk counter not being increased if the chunk hadn't been generated yet
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23:30 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/WwXLSQ
23:30 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath c00e45a - Fixed despawning entities that are out of range
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16:52 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±6] http://git.io/7aBtDQ
16:52 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 855238f - Basic Chunk lighting
16:52 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath ec250cd - Removed debug information
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21:31 < SuinDraw> Is the first packet sent the handshake packet? Because according to my socket thingy against the wiki i'm not receiving the full 0x02 packet
21:32 <+sadimusi> yes, that should be the first one
21:32 < SuinDraw> I'm getting '\x02=\x00\x07\x00T\x00h\x00e\x00E\x00y\x00e\x00s\x00\t\x001\x002\x007\x00.\x000\x00.\x000\x00.\x001\x00\x00c\xdd' Which translates to =TheEyes       127.0.0.1c
21:33 <+sadimusi> the data looks ok to me
21:34 < SuinDraw> according to http://puu.sh/2OaAd.png I should be getting more data
21:35 <+sadimusi> no, you got everything
21:35 < SuinDraw> hm, okay
21:35 <+sadimusi> the '=' is the version (61)
21:35 < SuinDraw> oh.
21:35 < SuinDraw> that explains it.
21:36 <+sadimusi> you should probably take a look at this http://www.wiki.vg/Data_Types
21:36 <+sadimusi> what language are you using btw?
21:36 < SuinDraw> python
21:36 < SuinDraw> I was looking at it and wondering why there was a stray = in there
21:36 <+sadimusi> and what are you trying to build?
21:36 < SuinDraw> basic server
21:38 < SuinDraw> so in that message, the first byte (\x02) is the packet, = (62) is the version, and the two strings are separated by \x00s, right?
21:38 <+sadimusi> no
21:38 <+sadimusi> the strings are prefixed with their length
21:39 < SuinDraw> why are there \x00 in between every letter then
21:39 <+sadimusi> it's UCS-2
21:39 < dav1d> basically utf-16 with a fixed size of two byte
21:40 <+sadimusi> and a smaller range of characters
21:40 < SuinDraw> oh okay
21:41 <+sadimusi> the easiest way to parse it is like this: https://github.com/sadimusi/mc3p/blob/master/mc3p/parsing.py#L137
21:43 < SuinDraw> Is that python2 or python3?
21:43 <+sadimusi> 2
21:43 < SuinDraw> ok
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22:17 < TkTech> I don't know why Data Types was moved from the top of the protocol page
22:18 < TkTech> The string thing is a *constant* early hiccup for people
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22:55 < Yoshi2> it looks like the Data Types table was moved to its own page a bit more than a year ago by sircmpwn when he greatly overhauled the protocol page
23:00 < Yoshi2> compare http://www.wiki.vg/wiki/index.php?title=Protocol&oldid=2020 to http://www.wiki.vg/wiki/index.php?title=Protocol&oldid=2024
23:04 < Yoshi2> I do agree that the data types table is very important and should be located at the top of the page instead of being hidden behind a link
23:13 < TkTech> I agree as well.
23:13 < TkTech> Additionally I think it's worthwhile to just regex the types in each packet to the types table
23:14 < TkTech> *each package as a link to the types table
23:15 < TkTech> Anyone disagree?
23:15 < dav1d> nope
23:15 < TkTech> I think I'll rewrite the header when I get home as well, bit outdated.
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02:48 < TkTech> http://www.charbase.com/1f46f-unicode-woman-with-bunny-ears ...
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03:18 < umby24> were there any protocol changes between 1.5.1 and 1.5.2 other than the protocol version?
03:22 < TkTech> Don't believe so
03:23 < umby24> ok, mind if I update the protocol page to reflect the new version?
03:32 < TkTech> Is it live?
03:34 < umby24> I beleive so
03:34 < umby24> though there's no mojang post about it
03:34 < TkTech> Mind double checking with the client first?
03:34 < umby24> sure
03:35 < TkTech> I moved servers and the wikibot doesn't seem to pick anything up. Hm.
03:35 < umby24> yes, it is live.
03:35 < TkTech> I think the feed parser dependency changed when I wasn't looking and now it doesn't behave the same, yet no errors.
03:35 < TkTech> I'd say go ahead and copy it over then.
03:36 < umby24> at least yours works :P lol. the feed parser on my irc bot is trash. Can never seem to get it right
03:36 < umby24> and ok, updated.
03:38 < TkTech> It's not even in the bot
03:39 < TkTech> https://github.com/TkTech/WikiBot
03:39 < TkTech> Just runs on a random server with supervisord keeping it up
03:39 < TkTech> 78 lines, most of that arg parsing and fluff
03:41 < umby24> well then lol.
03:42 < TkTech> Notifico means you don't have to do anything for the whole IRC side of it :P
03:42 < umby24> Definatly cuts down on the work load :D
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04:50 < TkTech> http://wiki.vg/User:AuroraMos …ugh
04:51 < TkTech> Anyone have an opinion on these three options: 1. Manual account creation by admin at request. 2. Manual account activation 3. Stay how it is.
04:53 < TkTech> … and that should fix the Wiki bot.
04:56 < dexter0> what about requiring an account at some set of trusted OpenID providers (Google, Facebook, Yahoo) in order to create a wiki account?  No idea if such a plugin exists.
04:59 < dexter0> what's with all the new user accounts anyway.  Are they bots?
04:59 < TkTech> Millions of little, little bots.
05:00 < TkTech> There's hundreds of spam accounts for every 1 real account
05:00 < TkTech> http://wiki.vg/wiki/index.php?title=Special:ListUsers&offset=&limit=500
05:01 < TkTech> Neat, more users with actual edits than I thought there were.
05:02 < dexter0> but why?  Shouldn't they try and spam up pages as soon as possible?
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05:05 < umby24> Captcha?
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05:24 < TkTech> I have no idea, maybe one out of a two dozen actually edits anything.
05:24 < TkTech> They just make accounts and do jack all.
05:24 < TkTech> None of the pages are protected or anything, just require registration
05:25 < TkTech> (Which is a must, wiki gets screwed instantly with anon edits)
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10:28 < Kyle> mmm, Mojang what are you fucking up now :/
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14:43 < Ghoul_> hi peoples
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16:13 < TkTech> sadimusi: Were textures the last broken thing?
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17:41 < Zopieux> hello
17:42 < Zopieux> I'm trying to bypass the MC Launcher by directly calling "java -Xms512m -Xmx1g -Djava.library.path=natives/ -cp "minecraft.jar;lwjgl.jar;lwjgl_util.jar" net.minecraft.client.Minecraft <username> <sessionID>"
17:42 < Zopieux> but it says it cannot find net.minecraft.client.Minecraft
17:43 < Zopieux> is it because the original minecraft.jar is obfuscated? do you know the name I have to use?
17:49 < pbunny> try java -Xmx1024M -Xms512M -Djava.library.path=natives -classpath . -cp "*" net.minecraft.client.Minecraft
17:49 < pbunny> Zopieux: 
17:49 < Zopieux> from the .minecraft/bin folder?
17:50 < pbunny> yes
17:50 < pbunny> um.. the same folder where minecraft.jar resides
17:51 < Zopieux> oh my god, it works
17:51 < Zopieux> thank you so much pbunny.
17:51 < pbunny> no problem
17:58 < Zopieux> do you know if it is possible to auto-join a server without modding minecraft.jar?
17:58 < Zopieux> I mean, with a command line argument for example
18:01 < pbunny> not that i'm aware of
18:01 < pbunny> you can probably do it with launcher
18:02 < Zopieux> I don't want to use a launcher or modded launcher as I don't use the usual MC login server
18:02 < Zopieux> it's a full-lan system with no internet access
18:03 < Zopieux> that's why it's "stupid" to let people choose the server as there is only one!
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23:08 < TkTech> Anyone happen to be on windows 7 or 8?
23:08 < TkTech> Can you see this character? -> ☂
23:09 <+Prf_Jakob> it kinda looks like a flag
23:09 <+Prf_Jakob> (this is with putty tho)
23:09 < TkTech> O-O
23:09 < TkTech> It's supposed to be an umbrella.
23:09 <+Prf_Jakob> yeah, its half an umbrella
23:09 < TkTech> Font rendering bug?
23:09 <+Prf_Jakob> probably
23:09 <+Prf_Jakob> put a space after it
23:10 < TkTech> ☂ ?
23:10 <+Prf_Jakob> yeah still half
23:10 <+Prf_Jakob> but then again putty
23:10 < TkTech> It seems to be a double-width character on OS X's normal text input fields.
23:10 < TkTech> Might just have trouble with those
23:10 < TkTech> Oh well, as long as it's clickable.
23:11 < eddyb> cool umbrella
23:11 < eddyb> Prf_Jakob: putty is known for not doing unicode right
23:12 < eddyb> well putty itself or the underlying terminal crap whatever. windows never does anything right
23:12 < TkTech> I think it's based on an old version of miniterm
23:12 < TkTech> Or vice versa
23:13 -!- eddyb [~eddy@unaffiliated/eddyb] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
23:13 <+Prf_Jakob> works fine in Linux btw.
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23:18 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: Can you click on it properly? I don't know if I'm recalling it correctly but putty should highlight links.
23:18 < TkTech> http://☂.ws
23:18 < TkTech> (Putty that is)
23:20 < dav1d> looks strange
23:20 < dav1d> weechat
23:20 < dav1d> and my urxvt url regex doesnt match
23:20 < TkTech> That just seems like a poor regex
23:21 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: my putty doesn't highlight links
23:21 < TkTech> Boo.
23:21 <+Prf_Jakob> http://xn--m3h.ws/
23:21 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: Can it be copy-pasted or does it f* up?
23:22 < TkTech> Ah perfect.
23:22 <+Prf_Jakob> is what the browser finally typed out when I copy pasted
23:22 < dav1d> why do you want such an url? o.O
23:22 < TkTech> Yeah, that's the punycode for it.
23:23 < TkTech> It's the default URL shortener for the new Notifico which allows you to use a variety of URL services like bitly.
23:23 <+Prf_Jakob> yeah it looks like a umbrella when copy pasted into the browser
23:23 < dav1d> lol
23:23 < TkTech> There's also http://ein.io
23:23 < TkTech> It doesn't have to make human sense, it's just a click and a redirect
23:23 < dav1d> I like the idea
23:23 < dav1d> URxvt.perl-ext-common:  default,matcher¬
23:24 < dav1d> matcher is the extension for clickable urls
23:24 < dav1d> that doesn't match your fancy url
23:24 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: Yeah, that I expect, every browser past IE…6? Supports IDN domains.
23:24 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: Even when it can't render it it can still puny-code it.
23:24 < dav1d> TkTech: http://sprunge.us/FRME
23:24 < dav1d> looks fancy :P
23:25 < dav1d> in my console it's kinda broken
23:25 < TkTech> Yeah I'm starting to think consoles (outside of iterm) don't have very good multi-width support.
23:26 < dav1d> yeah because it's pretty hard
23:26 < TkTech> Even then, in iTerm the highlight only properly shows on one half of it
23:26 < dav1d> ever heared of st?
23:26 < dav1d> they are struggling to implement it correctly for quite a while now
23:26 < TkTech> There are so many st'
23:26 < TkTech> *st's I have no idea what you'd be talking about
23:26 < dav1d> TkTech: http://st.suckless.org
23:27 < dav1d> back to breaking bad xD
23:28 < TkTech> Enjoy, thanks for the input.
23:52 <+sadimusi> TkTech: beside textures everything is still working
23:55 <+sadimusi> TkTech: also, does this get displayed as a link to you? http://👑.tk or can you at least open it with copy&paste?
23:57 < TkTech> sadimusi: It's a valid link for me
23:57 <+sadimusi> so far I could only open it in safari on os x 10.8
23:58 < TkTech> sadimusi: The Textual regex is pretty liberal, just needs https?://, at least one dot, and not end in a dot.
23:58 < TkTech> sadimusi: I see a crown on my IRC client but just a black box on the webpage.
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01:55 < cnlohr> hey
01:55 < cnlohr> I wanted to add my server to the server page a little while back even though it's been a while.
01:55 < cnlohr> It's the unusual minimalistic minecraft server that runs on the 8-bit AVR without an OS...
01:56 < cnlohr> But, it won't let me add it to the site since I'm a new user :-/
01:56 < cnlohr> any ideas?
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--- Log opened mer. mai 08 02:21:33 2013
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02:36 < TkTech> cnlohr: Name?
02:37 < cnlohr> Charles Lohr
02:37 < cnlohr> Oh! on the forums? cnlohr I believe
02:37 < cnlohr> err I mean wiki
02:39 < TkTech> Lies, no such user.
02:40 < TkTech> Wait, what. 22nd of January.
02:40 < TkTech> Sorry, I was looking at recent users.
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02:42 < TkTech> Bah.
02:42 < cnlohr> >.<
02:42 < TkTech> kev009: I can make the admins, bot, and bureacrat but I don't have permission to make them a normal usesr.
02:43 < TkTech> *them, *user.
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03:44 < cnlohr> so that's a no luck I guess?
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04:06 < TkTech> cnlohr: He should respond sometime tomorrow, sorry about that.
04:06 < TkTech> I'm still hoping it eventually all gets moved to git.
04:06 < TkTech> Not enough time in a week.
04:08 < cnlohr> Cool! thanks.
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07:48 <+kev009> TkTech: what was the situation?  he couldn't reg?
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12:31 < Not-001> [wiki] Edit by Xoft to Protocol -> http://tinyurl.com/c4qhyjg
12:37 < Not-001> [wiki] Edit by Xoft to Protocol version numbers -> http://tinyurl.com/chtdm7r
12:40 < Not-001> [wiki] Edit by Xoft to Protocol version numbers -> http://tinyurl.com/dxoqarr
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13:18 < Not-001> [wiki] Edit by STR Warrior to Server List -> http://tinyurl.com/bty22c6
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13:46 < TkTech> kev009: He can register, he just can't do anything after that.
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21:59 < Not-001> [netherrack] none pushed 3 commits to master [+0/-0/±7] http://git.io/_w_Ziw
21:59 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath c00e45a - Fixed despawning entities that are out of range
21:59 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 855238f - Basic Chunk lighting
21:59 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath ec250cd - Removed debug information
22:06 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-0/±2] http://git.io/HaugLw
22:06 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 1b303cb - Attempt to fix some GC issues
22:10 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/2m1WZQ
22:10 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 177d9f7 - Travis changes
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22:40 < TkTech> Thinkofdeath: Did you hit the "Test Hook" button on the website for that first one? ^
22:40 < Thinkofdeath> Maybe...
22:41 < TkTech> Thinkofdeath: If you didn't then it's a bug, since previously Github only sent a username of None on test hooks.
22:41 < TkTech> (Which annoys the shit out of me)
22:42 < Thinkofdeath> I think I did instead of hitting it on travis (Which might explain the issues with not doing anything without a commit)
22:45 <+pdelvo> why is the wikimedia syntax for tables so crappy -.-
22:48 < Not-001> [wiki] Edit by Pdelvo to Protocol version numbers -> http://tinyurl.com/cscumh6
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23:59 < dav1d> dconf! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2F2pqeMLuw&feature=youtu.be
23:59 < dav1d> clonejo: ^
23:59 < dav1d> DConf 2013 to be exact
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03:16 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1967 2 files : Added an optional parameter to toggle commands (grass, water, lava, solid, paint, static) -- "on"/"1" or "off"/"0".
03:17 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1968 6 files : More work on MapGenerator
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04:55 < eagleApex> hello x56 !
04:56 < x56> welcome :D
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14:15 < Not-001> [wiki] Edit by Pdelvo to Protocol version numbers -> http://tinyurl.com/cv6dd3h
14:16 < Not-001> [wiki] Edit by Pdelvo to Protocol version numbers -> http://tinyurl.com/cwgfxaa
14:18 <+pdelvo> Im  dumb. one more pre release is bold -.-
14:20 < Not-001> [wiki] Edit by Pdelvo to Protocol version numbers -> http://tinyurl.com/ce4xe6d
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15:38 <+clonejo> dav1d: cool!
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19:27 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/xdiqCQ
19:27 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath eaa005c - Fix error on startup with no regions
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22:30 < Not-001> [MinersLauncher] fragmer pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/fgIzeg
22:30 < Not-001> [MinersLauncher] fragmer 2325833 - Updated README to include 1.20 changelog, and updated link to binaries.
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22:32 < Not-001> [MinersLauncher] fragmer pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/gmjZrw
22:32 < Not-001> [MinersLauncher] fragmer 312d204 - Got rid of fancy unicode quotes that somehow snuck into the readme.
22:36 < Not-001> [charged.github.com] fragmer pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/-uyuMg
22:36 < Not-001> [charged.github.com] fragmer a6e7308 - Updated styles.css to make ::selection green
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23:21 <+md_5> pdelvo bungee is used by a lot of people
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--- Log closed ven. mai 10 10:41:15 2013
--- Log opened ven. mai 10 10:41:27 2013
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12:42 < pbunny> hi, somebody willing to do block digging -> item pickup -> item drop (via Q and ctrl+Q) on my server?
12:42 < pbunny> i don't have minecraft client
12:45 < pbunny> i need somebody to test stuff
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14:10 < dav1d> clonejo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPr2UspS0fE
14:10 < dav1d> Talk2 of Dconf
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14:23 < publicus14> hl
14:24 < pbunny> hi
14:27 < publicus14> hi
14:29 < pbunny> hi
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23:39 < Tester_> oh it works
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23:51 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±39] http://git.io/s73dOQ
23:51 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath bf9c515 - Lighting speed improvements
23:51 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 22986a6 - Moved thinkofdeath/netherrack to NetherrackDev/netherrack
--- Day changed sam. mai 11 2013
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03:36 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1969 2 files : Minor optimizations in player movement handling code.
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03:55 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1970 2 files : Another minor optimizations in player movement handling code.
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08:29 < Not-001> [MinersLauncher] fragmer pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±4] http://git.io/eNLJIQ
08:29 < Not-001> [MinersLauncher] fragmer 66541db - Added 5-second timeout for launcher update requests.
08:29 < Not-001> [MinersLauncher] fragmer 5862823 - Minor code cleanup
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09:18 < Amother> hi everyone
09:19 < Amother> whoops
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09:20 < AnotherOne> ping ping
09:20 < AnotherOne> anybody here?
09:23 < AnotherOne> +i
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09:34 <+md_5> hi
09:37 < AnotherOne> oh
09:38 < AnotherOne> damn irc
09:38 < AnotherOne> can you read my messages?
09:41 < Yoshi2> yeah, we can
09:41 < AnotherOne> oh so it works
09:41 < AnotherOne> can you give me a hint then?
09:42 < Yoshi2> a hint about what?
09:43 < AnotherOne> http://mc.kev009.com/How_to_Write_a_Client , 
09:43 < AnotherOne> Paraphrase (with no authentication and no encryption): send a 0x02, get a 0xFD, send a 0xCD, get a 0x01, get a 0x06. Then you'll eventually get a 0x0D, and that's when the game really begins.
09:43 < AnotherOne> i dont get 0x0d but some sh1t
09:43 < AnotherOne> does server require encryption gto go further?
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09:48 < Yoshi2> I do not know if the server still requires encryption to be enabled, but it was required when I last worked on my own client
09:48 < AnotherOne> looks like it does
09:49 < Yoshi2> is the junk data you receive random each time you run your client? If it is, then it might be that encryption is required
09:49 < AnotherOne> there are 1024 byte blocks
09:49 < AnotherOne> chunks?
09:50 < AnotherOne> every time different packet id
09:56 < Yoshi2> I'm not sure about the byte blocks, but if you receive different packet ids which are invalid or contain wrong data, that pretty much means that you need to implement encryption first before you can go on
09:57 < AnotherOne> so i will
09:57 < AnotherOne> thank you
09:58 < Yoshi2> you're welcome
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14:22 < AnotherOne> hey people
14:23 < dav1d> hi another one
14:23 < AnotherOne> what program can i use to sniff minecraft packets?
14:23 < dav1d> mc3p?
14:23 < dav1d> or smproxy
14:23 < dav1d> but no idea how up to date they are
14:23 < AnotherOne> thank you
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16:25 < AnotherOne> hey people
16:26 < AnotherOne> can someone give a hint? what is the login sequence for a pirated/offline mode server?
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18:40 -!- mode/#mcdevs [+v sadimusi] by ChanServ
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18:40 -!- _Adam01 is now known as Adam01
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--- Log closed sam. mai 11 19:04:21 2013
--- Log opened sam. mai 11 19:04:28 2013
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19:04 -!- Irssi: #mcdevs: Total of 106 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 11 voices, 94 normal]
19:05 -!- Irssi: Join to #mcdevs was synced in 55 secs
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20:30 -!- ServerMode/#mcdevs [+vvo pdelvo clonejo ChanServ] by cameron.freenode.net
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20:33 -!- ServerMode/#mcdevs [+v Matvei] by cameron.freenode.net
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22:31 -!- dola_ is now known as dola
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22:31 -!- clonejo_ is now known as clonejo
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22:31 -!- feepbot [~feepbot@p579E495F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #mcdevs
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--- Log closed sam. mai 11 23:26:27 2013
--- Log opened sam. mai 11 23:26:34 2013
23:26 -!- rom1504 [~rom1504@rom1504.fr] has joined #mcdevs
23:26 -!- Irssi: #mcdevs: Total of 95 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 7 voices, 88 normal]
23:26 -!- AgentHH [~ec2-user@ec2-54-244-117-95.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #mcdevs
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23:27 -!- ServerMode/#mcdevs [+vo pdelvo ChanServ] by gibson.freenode.net
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--- Day changed dim. mai 12 2013
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00:08 -!- mode/#mcdevs [+v SpaceManiac] by ChanServ
00:08 -!- mode/#mcdevs [+v clonejo] by ChanServ
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07:51 < dylanisawesome1> hi.
07:51 < dylanisawesome1> What hashing algorithms are used in minecraft packets? Also, is all packet data encrypted, or only some?
08:02 < mappum> dylanisawesome1: http://wiki.vg/Protocol_Encryption
08:03 < dylanisawesome1> thanks
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08:56 <+md_5> <hashtagswag> could someone teach me how to code a system like spigot but make it run on multi cores before i go to sleep in a hour? should be easy will pay $10
08:56 <+md_5> guy wants
08:56 <+md_5> to learn how to program
08:56 <+md_5> a  multicore minecraft server
08:57 <+md_5> in less than an hour
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09:07 <+SpaceManiac> the everything about that makes it sound like it's intentional
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09:14 < ezdiy> md_5: btw, any chance of spigot resurrecting https://github.com/ezdiy/MaxTPS/tree/master/src/main/java/maxtps ?
09:14 < ezdiy> basically, the trick is to feed clients with static distant chunk, thus giving fake impression of high viewdist
09:16 <+md_5> uh
09:17 < ezdiy> yeah, it was super hacky back in the day. maintanance hell as it involved rewriting of the classes in the repo :(
09:17 <+md_5> why do you want to fake it?
09:17 <+md_5> ezdiy also no offence.. but that code
09:17 < ezdiy> its *super hacky*
09:17 < ezdiy> which is why it was closed source at its time
09:17 <+md_5> like there are 50000 maps and atomic variables and stuff
09:17 <+md_5> just screams ram and cpu usage to me
09:17 < ezdiy> unfortunately not
09:18 < ezdiy> PlayerManager is actually optimized a lot for speed
09:18 < ezdiy> because it gets rid of two (!) object hiearchies
09:18 <+md_5> jesus you actually replace the reader threads
09:18 < ezdiy> and keeps everything in hashmaps
09:19 < ezdiy> md_5: again, that code is hopeless
09:19 < ezdiy> i'm hoping for someone to ressurect the overall trick
09:19 < ezdiy> as it looked nice back in the day
09:19 < ezdiy> fake viewdist 15, actual viewdist 7
09:21 < ezdiy> also, if you want to see something really horrible, consult https://github.com/ezdiy/MaxTPS/blob/master/src/main/groovy/maxtps/MaxTPS.groovy
09:21 < ezdiy> as you can see ama not java programmer :)
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10:35 < AnotherOne> hi people
10:39 <+SpaceManiac> hi
10:40 < mappum> hello
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14:32 < Not-003> [Miners] Wallbraker pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±3] http://git.io/8JbYUg
14:32 < Not-003> [Miners] Wallbraker f13a709 - mc: Download default terrain texture Signed-off-by: Jakob Bornecrantz <wallbraker@gmail.com>
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15:51 < AnotherOne> hey people, i have a question. http://mc.kev009.com/Protocol#Encryption_Key_Response_.280xFC.29
15:51 < AnotherOne> it is said "Bypassing the encryption is possible"
15:51 < AnotherOne> isn't it deprecated?
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17:03 < AnotherOne> hey
17:03 < AnotherOne> anybody here?
17:04  * clonejo coughs
17:09 < AnotherOne> http://pastebin.com/EUKG8jhL Look at this beautiful log. It is logging in to local server. It looks pretty strange. Empty 0xFD and then some trash. Can anyone explain what is going on there?
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17:20 < AnotherOne> hi Yoshi2
17:21 < AnotherOne> let me annoy you with questions for some time
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17:21 < Yoshi2|> AnotherOne: it looks like your code for reading the 0xFD packet could be wrong
17:21 < Yoshi2|> in 0xFD after the packet ID comes a short, which shows the length of the server ID
17:21 < AnotherOne> lol
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17:22 < AnotherOne> that was official client
17:22 < AnotherOne> and wpe pro
17:22 < AnotherOne> mb wpe is wrong?
17:23 < Yoshi2> ah
17:23 < AnotherOne> 1.5.2
17:23 < Yoshi2> hm, I haven't heard of that program before
17:24 < AnotherOne> thing for cheaters to modify packets on-fly
17:24 < AnotherOne> cna also log packets
17:24 < AnotherOne> can
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17:28 < AnotherOne> so what should i do next?
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17:32 < Yoshi2> it does not look like that program is very up to date when it comes to minecraft, but the login procedure looks pretty standard
17:32 < Yoshi2> client sends a 0x02, server sends a 0xFD, client sends a 0xFC, server sends a 0xFC with empty payload, and now the data stream is encrypted
17:33 < Yoshi2> exactly what's written in the wiki
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17:40 < AnotherOne> do lines 22-62 represent a single message?
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21:38 < Not-002> [MinersLauncher] fragmer pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/M8a28A
21:38 < Not-002> [MinersLauncher] fragmer b7d0c18 - Fixed "Always" and "Never" game update preference getting mixed up (thanks Ninjacat).
21:43 < Not-002> [MinersLauncher] fragmer pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±4] http://git.io/3dW3zA
21:43 < Not-002> [MinersLauncher] fragmer 8d0287d - 1.22 final - updated readme and version numbers.
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--- Day changed lun. mai 13 2013
00:02 < Not-002> [Miners] Wallbraker pushed 3 commits to master [+1/-20/±9] http://git.io/6ny4aw
00:02 < Not-002> [Miners] Wallbraker a3f4c7b - mc: Remove usage of Minecraft Modern files
00:02 < Not-002> [Miners] Wallbraker e33dddb - mc: Remove minecraft modern files
00:02 < Not-002> [Miners] Wallbraker b0e16b4 - mc: Rename classicinfo to parser
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02:58 < btilm305> Is there a packet delimiter?  I'm writing a custom java program and am only interested in reading certain packets.  If the packet ID isn't something I'm interested in, I want to skip reading the entire packet, without having to know anything about the packet's contents.
03:00 < btilm305> There has to be some kind of delimiter, because I'm able to delimit it in c++
03:00 < btilm305> By delimit it, I mean I'm able to tell a difference between the start of packets
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03:02 < dexter0> there is not
03:03 < dexter0> you must be able to parse all the packets
03:03 < btilm305> But how am I able to get defined packets whenever I use c++?
03:03 < btilm305> objective-c actually
03:04 < dexter0> elaborate?
03:04 < btilm305> using readData() returns an entire packet
03:04 < dexter0> are you using a library?
03:04 < dexter0> certain packets have a known length, others not so
03:06 < btilm305> I'm using GCDAsyncSocket
03:09 < dexter0> readData likely returns the contents of some buffer in the library where incoming data accumulates until you read it
03:10 < dexter0> that != mc packets
03:10 < btilm305> What would be the easiest way for me to get the size of a packet xD
03:11 < btilm305> Would I have to include all of minecraft's server code >.<
03:11 < dexter0> be able to parse the entire protocol
03:11 < dexter0> http://wiki.vg/Protocol
03:11 < btilm305> That's obvious lol
03:12 < btilm305> What would I have to do?  Is there any pre-written code or would I just have to import all of minecraft's server code
03:12 < dexter0> http://wiki.vg/Library_List
03:13 < dexter0> I image someone has written a protocol library in Java
03:13 < dexter0> imagine*
03:17 < btilm305> OMG YAY
03:17 < btilm305> Thanks dexte
03:17 < btilm305> Thanks dexter
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04:58 <+kev009> full dumps of the wiki are run weekly and provided at http://wiki.vg/wiki-latest.xml.bz2 (full XML backup) and http://wiki.vg/wiki-latest-images.tar.bz2
04:59 <+kev009> see also http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Importing_XML_dumps
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08:31 < TkTech> http://thenextweb.com/shareables/2013/05/10/if-you-watch-one-video-today-make-it-this-one-you-wont-stop-smiling/
08:46 < SinZ> wow
08:52 < TkTech> Dudes not bad for a gas-station singer.
08:52 <+Zaneo> heh
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09:01 < AlphaBlend> Jailout2000: Do realcraft
09:05 < Jailout2000> AlphaBlend: No
09:05 < AlphaBlend> lol, your long-term goal will never end
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10:06 < AnotherOne> what is realcraft?
10:07 < Calinou> crafting, but real
10:07 < AnotherOne> heh
10:08 < AnotherOne> hey people, why minecraft packet exchange is stream based?
10:08 < AnotherOne> this is a little uncomfortable to code
10:09 < AnotherOne> why no one packet one message?
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10:10 < Calinou> because this is TCP
10:10 < Calinou> and "TCP for gaming is awesome" --Notch
10:10  * Calinou phoronix rolleyes
10:12 <+Fador> use UDP -> add packet order checking and other TCP features -> win
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10:12 <+Zaneo> So use UDP, but make it like TCP?
10:12 < AnotherOne> heh
10:12 <+Fador> that's what people do ;)
10:13 <+Zaneo> Or instead take the lazier option, and just use tcp
10:13 <+Fador> yes.
10:13 < AnotherOne> is it ok to use c++ std::deque as a stream buffer?
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10:14 < Calinou> Fador: UDP is never fully reiable
10:14 < Calinou> but it's still faster than TCP
10:14 < Calinou> reliable UDP is an hack \o/
10:15 < Calinou> also, minecraft's lag doesn't come from TCP
10:15 < Calinou> it comes from unoptimized stuff and 20TPS
10:15 <+Fador> sure ;)
10:15 < Calinou> this is a very resource intensive game and mojang had the bad idea of setting it at 20TPS
10:15 < Calinou> 10TPS would have been enough, by far ;_;
10:15 <+Fador> also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagle%27s_algorithm
10:17 < AnotherOne> so it works
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10:18 < AnotherOne> fock my lack of experience
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13:00 <+md_5> <Calinou> 10TPS would have been enough, by far ;_;
13:00 <+md_5> redstone and mobs would be horrible
13:04 < dav1d> Teleports per second? :P
13:07 <+ammar2> teapots
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13:12 < pbunny> lol
13:12 < pbunny> md_5: java problems?
13:12  * pbunny 's server handles 200TPS with ~5% cpu usage increase
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13:19  * md_5 head desk
13:19 <+md_5> I'll ignore the troll
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13:26 < Calinou> no u
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13:28 < SinZ> pbunny: when did you get un k-lined?
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13:45 <+md_5> SinZ lmao
13:45 <+md_5> why was he klined
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13:48 < SinZ> md_5: iunno
13:48 < SinZ> <dx>	10:34 -!- pbunny [pbunny@stdout.lulzsec.com] has quit [K-Lined]
13:48 < dx> hi
13:49 < dx> same hostmask so i guess it's not ban evasion
13:49  * dx doesn't have anything to do with the ban, just was the first one who noticed the quit message
13:54 < pbunny> SinZ: the next day iirc
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16:13 < TkTech_> ….is it over?
16:14 < jast> I doubt it
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16:33 < eddyb> has pbunny always been stdout.lulzsec.com?
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16:40 < dav1d> eddyb: I think so
16:40 < dav1d> eddyb: the domain is on afraid.org iirc
16:41 < dav1d> yes
16:41 < dav1d> http://freedns.afraid.org/domain/dnstrace.php?domain=stdout.lulzsec.com&submit=Trace
16:41 < dav1d> trace 'em down
16:57 < jast> protip: stdout.lulzsec.com does not resolve
16:58 < dav1d> wat?
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17:10 < TkTech> eddyb: Anyone can use that domain
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18:15 < Not-011> [wiki] Edit by Wallbraker to ChargedMinersClassic -> http://tinyurl.com/cw496s4
18:15 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: ^ how do I get that in #charged-miners?
18:20 <+ammar2> Prf_Jakob: from the notifico channel: "The three bots on Freenode (Not-002, Not-011, Not-16) are hit-and-miss for now, nothing I can do." "Network is going to hell."
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19:30 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: Define "that".
19:30 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: The wiki-bot specifically?
19:31 <+Prf_Jakob> the wiki-part specifically
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19:35 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: That particular titanic piece of garbage would be this -> https://github.com/TkTech/WikiBot
19:36 <+Prf_Jakob> ah
19:36 < TkTech> Breaks all the time, supervisord just restarts it
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19:36 < TkTech> for entry in d.entries
19:36 <+Prf_Jakob> okay, well can I change the notifico hook so I can get it into my channel?
19:37 < TkTech> That for example will error out since d.entries may not exist if there were no posts in that time listing
19:37 <+Prf_Jakob> or do I need to run my own instance of it?
19:37 < TkTech> Wait, what?
19:37 < TkTech> You want wiki.vg in your channel?
19:37 < TkTech> That is very simple, just let me know what channel
19:38 < TkTech> Otherwise you would host your own instance
19:39 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: ^
19:39 < dav1d> TkTech: gnu_getopt o.O
19:39 < dav1d> argparse is so great and you use getopt
19:39 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: #charged-miners on Esper
19:39 < TkTech> dav1d: Really? argparse? How oldschool.
19:40 < dav1d> TkTech: is there something new again?
19:40 < TkTech> dav1d: docopt is where it's at, the requests of doc parsing.
19:40 < dav1d> na
19:40 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: Coming up
19:40 <+Prf_Jakob> thanks
19:40 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: http://n.tkte.ch/TkTech/wiki.vg
19:41 < dav1d> docopt can't cover everything argparse does
19:41 < TkTech> dav1d: Lies and deceit.
19:41 <+Prf_Jakob> thanks
19:42 < dav1d> TkTech: what? can I tell docopt to use my own conversion function for options?
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19:42 < dav1d> e.g. to the new python Enums? :D
19:42 < dav1d> *option to new Enum
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19:43 < TkTech> God dammit stop DDoS'ing Freenode.
19:46 < Yoshi2> freenode has been hit by a DDoS?
19:46 < edk> No, they're just randomly killing their network connections for fun
19:46 <+Ac-town> irc servers are a popular target
19:47 < edk> yeah, particularly networks this size
19:47 < edk> freenode ddoses are not as uncommon as would be nice
19:47 < buttscicles> people have been ddosing irc networks since before I was born, and will probably continue after I die
19:48 < TkTech> I think it might actually just be a causality, DDoS hitting the same datacenter.
19:48 < Yoshi2> mhm, I see
19:48 < TkTech> Otherwise they'd go after irc.freenode.net, not a specific server in the network.
19:48 <+Ac-town> TkTech: nah its freenode
19:48 < TkTech> Bleh
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19:59 < edk> TkTech: sure they'd go for a specific server, they might not have enough bandwidth to kill the whole network
20:00 < TkTech> edk: But taking out just one server on Freenode doesn't do much damage, at worst people will disconnect and reconnect to irc.freenode which will round-robin them to an unaffected server
20:01 < edk> right. they kill one server, then move on to another
20:01 < TkTech> Ah, right.
20:02 < edk> i hate it when people ddos stuff
20:02 < edk> it shouldn't be easier to break things than it is to make them
20:02 < dav1d> lol
20:02 < dav1d> what's their benefit?
20:03 < dav1d> freenode won't go down, and servers come back as soon as possible (of course monitoring/work is needed) but what is their benefit?
20:03 < edk> maybe it's fun fucking over places where people talk to each other about free software development
20:03 < edk> well, it annoys lots of people, i guess it's basically similar to the troll mentality
20:03 < dav1d> oh noes the world is so cruel
20:03 < dav1d> well, why do people kill others?
20:03 < dav1d> maybe it's fun
20:04 < edk> i guess?
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21:04 < oyasunadev> any interesting projects?
21:04 < TkTech> Uh...
21:05 < TkTech> I hear NASA is working on a "warp drive".
21:08 < eddyb> are they?
21:10 < eddyb> months ago I heard warp drives are the closest thing to reality when it comes to FTL travel
21:11 < Yoshi2> as far as NASA's website is concerned, "Warp Drives" are just another term for FTL travel
21:11 < Yoshi2> http://www.nasa.gov/centers/glenn/technology/warp/warpstat.html
21:12 < eddyb> "hyperspace"
21:12 < eddyb> srsly?
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21:12 < eddyb> http://www.nasa.gov/centers/glenn/technology/warp/ideachev.html#alcub that's the real "warp drive" concept
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21:15 < TkTech> eddyb: You do realize that most of the terms from popular sci-fi are stolen from papers, and vice versa (authors paying homage to popular sci-fi)
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21:16 < eddyb> well, yeah
21:17 < oyasunadev_> pretty interesting
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21:17 < eddyb> but "warp drives" and "wormholes" are theoretically real, even if potentially unpractical
21:17 < oyasunadev_> if your really interested watch some of vsauce's videos on youtube
21:18 < eddyb> "hyperspace" is one of those crazy "special dimensions", and it's farther fetched than the other two
21:19 < Not-011> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±6] http://git.io/gsyKVg
21:19 < Not-011> [netherrack] thinkofdeath f4622ab - More chunk lighting improvements
21:19 < Not-011> [netherrack] thinkofdeath d4d13a2 - Lighting fixes
21:19 < eddyb> inb4 "unfix because fix broken"
21:20 < oyasunadev_> is anyone still code with minecraft classic?
21:20 < oyasunadev_> *does
21:21 < TkTech> eddyb: "Hyperspace" is a valid term, it usually just means high-energy space.
21:21 < TkTech> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperspace
21:22 < TkTech> (And a lot of other crap)
21:22 < eddyb> well, you seem to know more about me on that specific definition, so I'll just shut up
21:22 < eddyb> "...or sidestep the problem in an alternate space: hyperspace." that's what I was saying
21:22 < TkTech> oyasunadev_: A few people do, yes.
21:23 < TkTech> oyasunadev_: Migrated mojang accounts are a bitch so it's kinda dead.
21:23 < oyasunadev_> good point. im looking for someone to work with me
21:24 < TkTech> oyasunadev_: And how far are you? I assume if you're looking for collaborators you've already got a minimal function server with some factor that makes it unique?
21:24 < eddyb> TkTech: that focuses on sci-fi, while https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wormhole and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcubierre_drive are closer to reality. that's what I was trying to point out :P
21:24 < oyasunadev_> Actually it's a client. Consists of bug fixes as well as extended features.
21:24 < TkTech> eddyb: Ah. Point.
21:25 < TkTech> oyasunadev_: Ah, interesting. You might have better luck poking Prf_Jakob and Scoot in #charged-miners and #fcraft on irc.esper.net
21:25 < TkTech> oyasunadev_: Both of them know more about the current classic scene than I.
21:25 < oyasunadev_> TkTech: Do you know what programming languages they use?
21:26 < TkTech> D and C#.
21:26 < oyasunadev_> TkTech: Darn because I'm more centralized in Java
21:26 < dav1d> why use so many people java?
21:26 < TkTech> So? Concepts aren't typically bounded to a language.
21:26 < dav1d> I blame university
21:26 < TkTech> Eh, I blame reality. It's pretty pervasive.
21:26 < oyasunadev_> java is a very good programming language at times
21:27 < TkTech> Hell, that Dreamliner or 747 is still controlled mostly with Ada.
21:27 < eddyb> TkTech: well, NASA are doing something: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White%E2%80%93Juday_warp-field_interferometer
21:27 < oyasunadev_> i find java useful because its similarity to c++, that it can do almost anything
21:28 < eddyb> uhm, no
21:28 < eddyb> C++ doesn't constrain you like Java does
21:28 < TkTech> Don't we have a rule on starting language wars?
21:28 < dav1d> TkTech: I bet one reason is, every fucking student learns java at university/school → they are done, move the a company, company knows, they know at least some java, do it in java then
21:28 < oyasunadev_> we are fighting, just discussing
21:28 <+Matvei> Hm, someone ccalled?
21:28 < eddyb> negation missing much?
21:29 < dav1d> Matvei: depends :P
21:29 < TkTech> Matvei: How many nicknames do you *HAVE*?
21:29 < oyasunadev_> i agree with you eddyb, although java is only constrained by its memory issues
21:29 < TkTech> Matvei: Wait, we had a conversation about you waiting forever for that nick to drop didn't we?
21:29 < oyasunadev_> i do use c++ time to time
21:29 < dav1d> (java is horrible)
21:30 < eddyb> oyasunadev_: huh, no, I meant the fundamentalist approach to OOP
21:30 < dav1d> java.equals(new Horrible())
21:30 < dav1d> woot
21:30 < eddyb> C++ lets you use whatever gun you want to shoot yourself in the foot. or anywhere else
21:30 < oyasunadev_> eddyb: ok, then yes i agree
21:31 < dav1d> <3 https://gist.github.com/Dav1dde/8ce1626b819ce042c769
21:31 < dav1d> show me a language which allows that, I will learn it immediatly
21:32 < oyasunadev_> dav1d: im a little confused. what is the purpose of that?
21:33 <+Matvei> TkTech, lots. Lots.
21:34 < dav1d> oyasunadev_: it generates code at compile time for me, so I can supply a Json, it will call the appropriate method (defined in the Jsons "action" field) and automatically get the arguments based on their names out of the json, converts them to the correct types and calls the method
21:34 < dav1d> win
21:34 < oyasunadev_> dav1d: oh nevermind i see
21:34 < dav1d> the calling part isn't implemented yet (dispatch)
21:34 < oyasunadev_> yeah thats why i was initially confused
21:34 < dav1d> I have it working for JSArray (an awesomium type)
21:35 < dav1d> https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/brala/ui/api.d mapping JS events 1:1 onto D methods
21:35 < eddyb> more dynamic languages aren't allowed, are they?
21:35 < oyasunadev_> dav1d: very nice work
21:36 < dav1d> eddyb: well every interpreted language can do this
21:36 < dav1d> (I would assume)
21:36 < eddyb> maybe we should call them interpretable
21:36 < TkTech> dav1d: You could do that easily in Python and let PyPy JIT the calls.
21:36 < oyasunadev_> eddyb: write a long page about it on wikipedia and it will become a thing
21:36 < eddyb> the reason I didn't think of that word ("interpreted"), is because JITs
21:36 < dav1d> TkTech: I know
21:37 < dav1d> TkTech: but vibed <3
21:37 < TkTech> Hehe.
21:37 < dav1d> actually, I prefer flask
21:37 < dav1d> but vibed is fast, really fast
21:37 < eddyb> TkTech: or, you know, do JS stuff in JS :P
21:37 < TkTech> pyv8 does exist you know.
21:37 < TkTech> javascript and python have first-class integrations.
21:38 < eddyb> please tell me it doesn't
21:38 < oyasunadev_> python <3
21:38 < oyasunadev_> although i have yet to learn it haha
21:38 < eddyb> anyway, it's funny to see people work with JSON in languages where it's not even valid syntax (not saying it's that wrong, just a bit amusing)
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21:39 < dav1d> eddyb: why?
21:39 < dav1d> eddyb: is xml better?
21:39 < eddyb> hell no
21:39 < TkTech> eddyb: I…what?
21:39 < dav1d> xml is nowhere valid syntax
21:39 < oyasunadev_> eww xml can burn
21:39 < dav1d> and still people work with it
21:39 < TkTech> eddyb: You have problems with people using a portable format … portably?
21:39 < dav1d> ^
21:39 < eddyb> TkTech: derp, I even tried to explain I don't have a problem with it
21:40 < TkTech> > <eddyb>	 anyway, it's funny to see people work with JSON in languages where it's not even valid syntax (not saying it's that wrong, just a bit amusing)
21:40 < TkTech> That is the exact opposite.
21:40 < oyasunadev_> xml shouldnt be called a language. it has unorganized syntax as well as little functionality
21:40 < TkTech> (Even ignoring your brackets)
21:40 < oyasunadev_> basically text
21:41 < oyasunadev_> no messages means people are writing long hate messages
21:41 < eddyb> TkTech: I guess it's one of those days for me. when every sentence I type ends up the opposite of what I meant
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21:45 < oyasunadev_> is esper down for anyone else?
21:47 < dav1d> oyasunadev_: xml isn't a language
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21:47 < Yoshi2> esper is up for me
21:47 < oyasunadev_> yeah nevermind its my irc client
21:59 < dav1d> works <3
21:59 < dav1d> mobile phone → pc remote control over JS and websockets <3
21:59 < dav1d> (x11 only atm)
22:00 < eddyb> heh
22:02 < dav1d> finally I can watch films from bed without the need to stand up if battery in my mouse gets weak
22:03 < eddyb> heh
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22:06 <+Matvei> oyasunadev_, not sure if TK elaborated already
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22:06 <+Matvei> But basically the two last active projects in classic are charged-miners (written in D) and fCraft (C#)
22:06 <+Matvei> Charged-Miners is a client, fCraft is a server
22:07 <+Matvei> And both are actually a bit slow. I'm trying to slow down fCraft development to maitenance-only.
22:07 <+Matvei> Because, well, most of the user base is gone
22:08 <+Matvei> So there's little feedback, few users, and no donations
22:09 < dav1d> Matvei: so you're fragmer?
22:09 <+Matvei> Yes
22:09 < dav1d> or did I confuse somethin'
22:09 < dav1d> kk
22:09 <+Matvei> Sorry about the nick confusion
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22:20 < oyasunadev_> why change your nick?
22:21 <+Matvei> felt like it.
22:21 < oyasunadev_> haha ok
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22:48 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/e9SlcA
22:48 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 6776da7 - Link to site
23:03 < oyasunadev_> how would i get my github linked to this?
23:04 -!- eddyb [~eddy@unaffiliated/eddyb] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
23:04 < jast> notifico works as a webhook
23:05 < jast> sign up with notifico (n.tkte.ch), create a hook, add it to your github repo
23:05 < jast> you'll want to make sure the channel owner (it can post to any channel) doesn't mind
23:06 < oyasunadev_> who is the owner?
23:06 < jast> I'm fairly sure you'll be okay here if it's a minecraft-related project
23:06 < oyasunadev_> it is minecraft related yes
23:06 < jast> after all, plenty of people have it post updates here
23:06 < dexter0> TKT.ech is the owner
23:06 < oyasunadev_> thank you
23:06 < dexter0> (minus the .)
23:07 < jast> since he runs notifico, too, he can just remove your hook if it annoys him ;)
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19:44 < ellisvlad> hi
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19:45 < ellisvlad> Wondering if anyone can help me?
19:45 < ellisvlad> I'm developing some minecraft server software
19:45 < ellisvlad> and I'm struggling to understand how you send the right packets for a dropped itemstack to spawn
19:47 < ellisvlad> can anyone help?
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19:49 < AnotherOne> ping
19:49 < ellisvlad> hi
19:49 < AnotherOne> hi
19:50 < ellisvlad> Having trouble with some minecraft server coding... would you be able to help? :)
19:50 < AnotherOne> oh... im not sure but try it
19:52 < ellisvlad> My server software isn't receiving the Start Digging part of http://www.wiki.vg/Protocol#0x0E
19:52 < ellisvlad> All I get are alot of arm swings and a Finish digging packet at the end
19:53 < ellisvlad> Not sure exactly what is wrong
19:55 < AnotherOne> try to dump packets coming from client
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19:59 < AnotherOne> why can i send messages without identifying?
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20:09 < Yoshi2> AnotherOne: because nickname regisration and indentification is not required on IRC
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20:25 < ellisvlad> Hmm, I've logged all the packets sent by the client, and still only see 0x0E once, when the player stops digging
20:38 < ellisvlad> Really can;t figure this out lol
20:38 < ellisvlad> when the player just hits a block or starts digging, I don't get any Start Dig bpackets coming through
20:39 < ellisvlad> but when the player has been dug through a block, then the Start Cancel and Finish Dig packets come through normally
20:42 < ellisvlad> Anyone know why this might be?
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21:20 < AnotherOne> mb official client is saving resources?
21:20 < AnotherOne> it sends both packets on successful diging (thas is calculated client-side)
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21:23 < ellisvlad> Hmm?
21:23 < ellisvlad> How does the server know when to start sending the block breaking animation?
21:24 < ellisvlad> which packet (and when) is sent?
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21:33 < AnotherOne> is it sending that animation?
21:34 < ellisvlad> which packd
21:34 < AnotherOne> i dont know much about that part of protocol, but doing that is too stupid even for people who send arrow shot in digging paket
21:34 < ellisvlad> *packet wuld that be?
21:35 < ellisvlad> ah yes, it does send the animation
21:35 < AnotherOne> what packet id?
21:35 < ellisvlad> http://www.wiki.vg/Protocol#0x12
21:35 < ellisvlad> 0x12
21:36 < ellisvlad> but there is no way to check which block is being broken
21:36 < ellisvlad> unless..
21:36 < AnotherOne> oh
21:36 < AnotherOne> wtf mojang
21:37 < ellisvlad> no, can't hink
21:37 < ellisvlad> *think
21:38 < ellisvlad> hmm
21:38 < AnotherOne> hey
21:38 < AnotherOne> mb "damage animation" is mob damage?
21:39 < AnotherOne> block got its animation even during hard lag 
21:39 < AnotherOne> i must check this
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21:40 < ellisvlad> yeah, but I can't find a way to find which block is being damaged
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21:42 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/2Y4IHg
21:42 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath e8603f5 - Update with changes to soulsand's command system
21:51 < AnotherOne> some magic with cross position?
21:54 < AnotherOne> hey ellis
21:55 < Yoshi2> the client should send a Player Digging packet, there is no other way for the server to determine where the block that is being hit is located
21:56 < ellisvlad> hmm
21:57 < ellisvlad> so the server has to calculate it baseed on the player's last position?
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21:58 < Yoshi2> the server shouldn't need to do any complex calculations to get the position of a block that is being broken
21:59 < ellisvlad> hmm, what tells the server which block to start doing the block breaking animation on then?
22:00 < TkTech> It doesn't need to do anything "complex" but it also shouldn't blindly be trusting the client...
22:00 < TkTech> You know where the player model is, you know where it's looking, you know what it should and should not be able to hit...
22:01 < ellisvlad> but how do I know which block is hit, for example with a button
22:02 < ellisvlad> Packet 0x0E gives block coordinates, but the server only seems to recevie this packet once the block has been destroyed?
22:07 < ellisvlad> unless I'm missing somthing really obvious?
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22:09 < AnotherOne|2> did i miss something?
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22:14 < ellisvlad> ohh
22:14 < ellisvlad> I see where the confsuion is
22:14 < ellisvlad> I'm making a server, not a client :P
22:15 < ellisvlad> and my server is not recieivng the Start Digging packet correctly
22:18 < Yoshi2> I've thought so much that you're working on a server, I'm still puzzled as to why the client wouldn't send a Player Digging packet when it starts digging
22:19 < ellisvlad> Give me a sec and I'll show what I get
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22:38 < ellisvlad> Sorry got distracted
22:38 < ellisvlad> anyway, I'll show you what I mean
22:45 < ellisvlad> Hmm, how best to show you this
22:51 < ellisvlad> ok
22:51 < ellisvlad> anyone still here?
22:52 < ellisvlad> I recorded what I am trying to say
22:52 < ellisvlad> http://www.twitch.tv/ellisvlad/b/403547638
22:52 < ellisvlad> this is the problem
22:53 < ellisvlad> I don't see how I can find the coords of the block before it is broken
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23:03 < AnotherOne> looks like i almost understand what you need
23:04 < ellisvlad> lol, know how I can fix it? c:
23:07 < AnotherOne> oh fock
23:07 < ellisvlad> hmm?
23:07 < AnotherOne> eureka or how it is right...
23:07 < ellisvlad> :D?
23:07 < AnotherOne> oh no
23:08 < AnotherOne> not that one
23:08 < ellisvlad> :(
23:08 < AnotherOne> let's start again
23:08 < AnotherOne> why do you need that block;s coords?
23:09 < AnotherOne> aha
23:09 < ellisvlad> so that the server can tell all the other players that the block is being dug, and that they should start to "crack" the block
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23:11 < AnotherOne> did you try it with vanilla client?
23:11 < ellisvlad> yeah, it is vanilla client connected to my server
23:11 < AnotherOne> just an interface pack?
23:12 < ellisvlad> yeah
23:13 < AnotherOne> damn
23:14 < AnotherOne> looks like it is a client problem
23:14 < ellisvlad> :(
23:14 < ellisvlad> It works fine on the vanilla server
23:14 < ellisvlad> somehow
23:15 < Thinkofdeath> I get a status of 0 when the player starts digging on my server
23:16 < ellisvlad> hmm weird...
23:18 < AnotherOne> do you have github?
23:19 < AnotherOne> i see your server is written in c++. how is your data exchange made? a stream?
23:21 < ellisvlad> I havn't put this project on github, it's still quite new. And yes, it is sent in a socket stream
23:21 < AnotherOne> boost?
23:21 < ellisvlad> nope, pure sockets
23:21 < AnotherOne> how old is it?:)
23:21 < ellisvlad> almost a week xD
23:22 < AnotherOne> fuck
23:22 < AnotherOne> almost fully functional server in a week?
23:22 < ellisvlad> this has been the first problem (except some annoyances with sending chunks)
23:22 < AnotherOne> good good
23:22 < ellisvlad> lol
23:22 < ellisvlad> still a little way from functional ;)
23:23 < AnotherOne> time for me to let butthurt flow through me
23:23 < ellisvlad> lol
23:24 < AnotherOne> can you explain sockets for me a bit?
23:24 < AnotherOne> how do you read packets?
23:24 < ellisvlad> but yes, so far I've got Chunk generation, Chunk Saving/Loading, Player leaving/joining, chat, some VERY basic commands, inventory, and block placing...no breaking yet -.-
23:24 < ellisvlad> sockets
23:24 < AnotherOne> code and then rest of it?
23:25 < ellisvlad> kk
23:25 < ellisvlad> well, I just set up a listening socket and then with all new connections I create a thread and let them continue in the thread.
23:26 < ellisvlad> http://puu.sh/2TyI7.png
23:26 < ellisvlad> linux code btw
23:27 < ellisvlad> then it gets a little more confusing when a player makes a connection
23:27 < ellisvlad> continuing from the previous screenshot
23:27 < ellisvlad> http://puu.sh/2TyOm.png
23:28 < TkTech> ellisvlad: For the love of noodles, http://gist.github.com
23:28 < ellisvlad> lol
23:29 < AnotherOne> let me see PlayerSocketHandler please
23:30 < ellisvlad> Its much harder to copy and paste code because I'm on windows and am coding on a Linux virtual machine, that is very tempermental with copy and paste xD
23:31 < AnotherOne> ok i'll try to explain what i want
23:31 < ellisvlad> PlayerSocketHandler is very big lol
23:31 < ellisvlad> the essence is the receiving and sending functions
23:32 < ellisvlad> which just use send(sock, buff, buff_len, MSG_NOSIGNAL); and recv(sock, buff, buff_len, MSG_NOSIGNAL);
23:32 < AnotherOne> what if i get messages to my socket and dont read them? are they stored?
23:33 < AnotherOne> damn my little socket knowledge
23:33 < ellisvlad> send and recv are in blocking mode by deafult
23:33 < ellisvlad> *default
23:34 < ellisvlad> so recv will freeze up the thread until data is received or the socket closes
23:36 < AnotherOne> i use sdlnet
23:36 < ellisvlad> oh right, I remember sdl
23:37 < AnotherOne> and want to switch to boost::asio
23:37 < ellisvlad> boost is very powerful
23:38 < AnotherOne> right now i have a thread that constantly calls recv and stores received packets to std::stringstream
23:38 < AnotherOne> then i read messages from it
23:38 < ellisvlad> but I have always prefered working as barebones as I could, with absolute minimal dependacies.
23:38 < AnotherOne> is it ok?
23:38 < ellisvlad> yeah that is fine
23:39 < ellisvlad> I do everything as minimally dependant as possible because I love to keep poformance and memory usage at a minimal
23:41 < ellisvlad> with noone connected to my minecraft server, it sits at ~800KB RAM http://puu.sh/2TzHi.png
23:42 < ellisvlad> and then it is 10MB per player
23:42 < ellisvlad> http://puu.sh/2TzOJ.jpg
23:44 < ellisvlad> grr, this block damage thing is really annoying me
23:44 < AnotherOne> nice, nice
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23:44 < AnotherOne> good luck man, make a good server that does not want annoying own launcher
23:45 < ellisvlad> ;)
23:45 < ellisvlad> what I did for the packets being received by the server was have that PlayerSocketHandler wait for recv to dump some data into the player's data buffer.
23:46 < ellisvlad> because the recv is blocking, it will hang until some data is received or the player leaves
23:46 < ellisvlad> so I then check if the buffer contains any data, if it is empty, then the player closed the socket.
23:46 < AnotherOne> try boost::asio
23:46 < ellisvlad> if there is data, then handle it and go again
23:47 < ellisvlad> I was thinking about boost, but because the main goal in making this server is to keep Memroy usage as minimal as possible, I'm affraid of the footprint most libraries leave
23:47 < AnotherOne> and what if you got half of a packet at a moment of handling?
23:49 < AnotherOne> vanilla server likes to send 0x38 chunk bulk in several packets
23:49 < ellisvlad> because it is a server, there shouldn't be a problem with incomplete packets
23:51 < ellisvlad> But I have tried to avoid most of the standard or library classes and functions. e.g. I found that when using very large vectors (to sotre all the chunks that were visible by the player) that even after they were deleted and cleared, the vector still had alot of memory allocted to it
23:52 < ellisvlad> so instead I made my own vector class, partly for the experience of doing so
23:53 < AnotherOne> but what if...
23:53 < AnotherOne> can you hadnle multiple messages in one packet?
23:53 < ellisvlad> yes
23:53 < ellisvlad> yes and no..
23:54 < ellisvlad> when the packet has finished being handled, the buffer should have all been read and used, so the buffer cursor should be at the end
23:55 < ellisvlad> if it is not at the end, then it attemppts to handle the buffer again, but starting from the current cursor position
23:56 < ellisvlad> However many of my packet handlers send data back to the player, and each playeronly has one buffer, which is cleared when new data is being sent
23:57 < ellisvlad> so in most cases, the buffer is cleared during the handling of the packet :/
23:57 < ellisvlad> anyway, I'm going to get somthing to eat
23:57 < ellisvlad> back soon
23:58 < AnotherOne> maybe you lose digging start message because of this?
23:58 < AnotherOne> k
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00:27 < AnotherOne> ping
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05:13 < dylanisawesome1> hello, I'm making a little program that logins in to minecraft.net with a classic account, but how would I retrieve the verification key once i've gotten the auth key?
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06:17 < Not-003> [wiki] Edit by Aadnk to Protocol -> http://tinyurl.com/cdz4p2l
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10:33 < ellisvlad> hey :)
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10:44 < AnotherOne> sup
10:45 < pbunny> \/
10:46 < ellisvlad> Anotherone: Thank you so much for your help yesturday, I added another buffer for the player, so that the read and write buffers are seperate...
10:46 < ellisvlad> and what do you know, the dig start packet was sent on the end of a player position packet
10:46 < ellisvlad> so it is working good now :D
10:49 < Yoshi2> ah, so your server somehow lost the dig start packet? It's good that you were able to fix it
10:52 < ellisvlad> yeah thanks :) I assumed that each packet would be received by recv() seperately, completely forgeot that they build up
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10:56 < Yoshi2> that's what I thought when I worked on my first minecraft server, which was my first minecraft project and my second networks-related project ever
10:56 < Yoshi2> needless to say, it did not work very well and regulary ate packets
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11:26 < AnotherOne> ellisvlad: np man:)
11:27 < AnotherOne> looks like everyone who had eved made a network application faced this
11:28 < ellisvlad> lol
11:49 < pbunny> i haven't
11:50 < AnotherOne> heh
11:50 < AnotherOne> you are good then
11:50 <+Fador> 00:39 < ellisvlad> I do everything as minimally dependant as possible because I love to keep poformance and memory usage at a minimal
11:51 <+Fador> pbunny can help with that! ;)
11:51 < AnotherOne> cmon, tell us about reinventing a wheel Fador:)
11:51 < AnotherOne> oh
11:52 <+Fador> ..and I just use single thread and libevent to handle everything ;)
11:54 < AnotherOne> server?
11:55 <+Fador> https://github.com/fador/mineserver
11:56 < AnotherOne> but what if there are more players online than a single core can handle?
11:57 <+Fador> then it'll slow down? ;D
11:57 <+Fador> but I'm pretty sure the server can handle 100+ players
11:59 < AnotherOne> why a single thread? is potential slowdown better than f**king with threads?
11:59 <+Fador> I dont have any reason to add more threads really
11:59 <+Fador> (I've studied concurrency at the university etc..)
12:00 < AnotherOne> ok, you know it better:)
12:00 <+Fador> what I could do is add couple of threads to generate the map and that's it ;)
12:05 < pbunny> Fador: i used single thread first too, but then i changed it to thread-per-connection because some intensive tasks can occur within client connection context
12:05 < pbunny> now its like http://dpaste.org/zO7F0/
12:05 < pbunny> i added --with-mtl option to configure, will benchmark it when everything's ready
12:06 < pbunny> i.e. chunks deflating happens in connection thread
12:06 < pbunny> various surrounding entities loops
12:06 < pbunny> etc
12:06 < pbunny> offloading that to world threads will add latency
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12:07 < pbunny> ( http://dpaste.org/mVRvy/ - that's a .h for that )
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12:25 < AnotherOne> f**k boost
12:39 < ellisvlad> ok, now a serious question, not just a derp in my coding :P
12:40 < ellisvlad> What should be sent to the client for them to make an ItemStack appear dropped on the ground?
12:42 < AnotherOne> good question:)
12:43 < AnotherOne> idk, dump more traffic from vanilla server
12:46 < pbunny> ellisvlad: http://wiki.vg/Protocol#Spawn_Object.2FVehicle_.280x17.29
12:47 < pbunny> ellisvlad: http://dpaste.org/OCDKr/
12:47 < pbunny> i think specifying quantity > 1 should make client display it as stack
12:47 < pbunny> yes.
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12:48 < pbunny> ellisvlad: aah, it's 0x17 followed by 0x28 (which specifies item properties)
12:48 < pbunny> see the dpaste
12:49 < ellisvlad> ah thanks :)
12:50 <+Fador> https://github.com/fador/mineserver/blob/master/include/protocol.h#L265 another example ;)
12:50 < ellisvlad> that would make sense
12:50 < ellisvlad> I was doing the 0x17 fine and the client was making a new entity...but I couldn't see it :P
12:51 < ellisvlad> whenever I tried sending 0x28 I was missing the NBT data
12:51 < ellisvlad> and that crashed me every time -.-
12:51 < pbunny> ellisvlad: make sure you send -1 as 0xffff
12:52 < pbunny> if you don't provide NBT data
12:52 < ellisvlad> yup thanks :)
12:52 < pbunny> ellisvlad: also send http://wiki.vg/Protocol#Entity_Velocity_.280x1C.29 somewhere after 0x28 in case you don't want client to apply its own physics to item entity (i.e. its falling to random side)
12:53 < ellisvlad> thanks again :D
12:53 < pbunny> np :p
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13:12 < AnotherOne> Fador
13:12 < AnotherOne> show me the file where packet class is defined please
13:18 <+Fador> https://github.com/fador/mineserver/blob/master/include/packets.h#L128
13:18 <+Fador> https://github.com/fador/mineserver/blob/master/src/packets.cpp#L1590
13:23 < AnotherOne> heh
13:23 < AnotherOne> i did it different way
13:24 <+Fador> ;)
13:25 < AnotherOne> and i dont know what way is better
13:25 < AnotherOne> but we'll see
13:36 < ellisvlad> grr, still having grief with this itemstack droppibng xD
13:36 < ellisvlad> *dropping
13:37 < pbunny> why?
13:37 < ellisvlad> the correct stack is dropped, but the coordinates are really wrong
13:37 < ellisvlad> its dropping very close to y=0
13:37 < ellisvlad> and then it floats up through the blocks after a few seconds lol
13:38 < pbunny> ellisvlad: multiply coords by 32
13:38 < pbunny> see my paste
13:38 < pbunny> http://dpaste.org/OCDKr/
13:38 < pbunny> and angles too need some modifying
13:39 < ellisvlad> http://dpaste.org/J2A5c
13:39 < ellisvlad> that is what I have got
13:40 < ellisvlad> using 3525 as the stack's entity ID
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13:43 < ellisvlad_> omg nvm
13:43 < ellisvlad_> I was sending the loc was all nulled
13:43 < ellisvlad_> so it was spawning at 0, 0, 0
13:43 < AnotherOne> hehe
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13:45 < ellisvlad_> http://puu.sh/2TU1C.jpg
13:46 < pbunny> :)
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14:17 < AnotherOne> hey people
14:17 < AnotherOne> what is this? http://www.wiki.vg/Protocol#Teams_.280xD1.29
14:20 < Yoshi2> an attempt by the minecraft devs to bring vanilla minecraft up to par with modded minecraft, as far as I can tell
14:26 < AnotherOne> i've logged packets from some pirated bukkit server
14:27 < AnotherOne> and got ~20kb of this
14:27 < AnotherOne> can this packet just be ignored?
14:41 < ellisvlad_> Its for the sidebar and text above entities
14:48 < AnotherOne> oh
15:11 < SinZ> zzz, more pirates
15:12 < pbunny> pirates are nasty
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15:19 < AnotherOne> nope:)
15:24 < pbunny> https://ssl4.lon.gb.securedata.net/toygrotto.net/merchantmanager/images/uploads/nasty%20pirate%209176.JPG
15:25 < AnotherOne> not bad, not bad:)
15:28 < AnotherOne> dman
15:28 < AnotherOne> damn
15:28 < AnotherOne> i hate when my program's architecture changes
15:28 < pbunny> hating isn't efficient for programming
15:29 < AnotherOne> true
15:30 < AnotherOne> and dat inheritance
15:30 < ellisvlad_> fml
15:30 < AnotherOne> wtf?:)
15:31 < ellisvlad_> Working on some cave generation code and atm I have it so that there is a 1 in 10 chance that any chunck has a cave's entrance in it, if it has an entrance, it generates the whole cave
15:31 < ellisvlad_> when a cave is generated, it may need to leave the chunk, and if it does need to, then the chunk it goes into is loaded and then modified
15:32 < ellisvlad_> only problem is... that is if the new chunk has not been generated before it also has a 1 in 10 chance of having a cave entrance on it
15:32 < AnotherOne> heh
15:33 < ellisvlad_> I ran my server and it didn't do anything for a bit...so I maxed the priority of the program and still nothing
15:33 < ellisvlad_> only problem now is that my pc is kinda frozen
15:33 < ellisvlad_> the mouse is lagging
15:33 < AnotherOne> INFINITE LOOPS FTW
15:33 < pbunny> :)
15:33 < ellisvlad_> and system monitor is reporting 800%cpu usage x.x
15:34 < pbunny> ellisvlad_: try using threads, it will make it more fun
15:34 <+Fador> #define EVER ;;
15:34 <+Fador> for(EVER) { ...
15:34 < pbunny> add threads support
15:34 < AnotherOne> lol
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15:34 < ellisvlad_> it is threaded lol
15:34 < AnotherOne> yup
15:34 < ellisvlad_> but each chunk is being generated in a new thread
15:34 < AnotherOne> LOLOLOLOLOL
15:34 < ellisvlad_> and it is running on all cores -.-
15:35 < ellisvlad_> I can't kill it x.x
15:35 < AnotherOne> RACES! MEMORY WARS!
15:35 < AnotherOne> fock it man, make a single thread for world generation
15:36 < pbunny> ellisvlad_: my world is multithreaded too, but i did it right
15:36 < AnotherOne> hey ellis
15:36 < AnotherOne> i have an idea for you
15:36 < pbunny> ellisvlad_: use valgrind --tool=drd 2>&1 | tee ouch.log
15:36 < AnotherOne> do you know about strategic oregen?
15:36 < pbunny> if hdd space is not of concern :p
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15:38 < ellisvlad> FINALLY
15:38 < ellisvlad> I;'m back alive
15:38 < ellisvlad> 3,624 chunks generated...http://puu.sh/2TWFr.png
15:38 < ellisvlad> lol
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15:39 < ellisvlad> not as many as I thought would generate lol
15:39 < ellisvlad> hmm, what is the best way to generate caves?
15:40 < pbunny> ellisvlad: lol..
15:40 < pbunny> forget about the performance. thanks
15:40 < ellisvlad> lol
15:40 < ellisvlad> hmm
16:09 < AnotherOne> what if you look into minecraft code?
16:10 < AnotherOne> or do you want your own generator?
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16:57 < Yoshi2> looking at minecraft's generation code is not exactly the greatest way to learn how to generate terrain features
16:58 < pbunny> ++
16:58 < pbunny> its only a way to get brain java
17:01 < AnotherOne> brain java
17:01 < AnotherOne> sounds like brain cancer
17:05 < pbunny> exactly
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20:49 < AnotherOne> omg fock protocol
20:49 < AnotherOne> im so tired of making message classes
20:50 < Yoshi2> you're disliking the way the protocol works? Welcome to the club
20:50 < AnotherOne> lol
20:55 < AnotherOne> does client have to send keep-alive messages?
20:56 < Yoshi2> yes
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20:57 < AnotherOne> how frequently?
20:57 < Yoshi2> every time the server sends a keep alive
20:59 < AnotherOne> does it send this packet 20 times a second?
20:59 < Yoshi2> definitely not
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21:17 < Not-003> [wiki] Edit by Windwaker to Server List -> http://tinyurl.com/bjld7uq
21:25 < AnotherOne> http://pastebin.com/Q009HgTS
21:25 < AnotherOne> is it ok to do something like this?
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22:04 < eddyb> AnotherOne: reverse is silly for endianness conversion... the standard conversion (using shifts, bitwise OR and bitwise AND) doesn't require a loop and it's readily optimized (x86 has an instruction that does exactly that)
22:04 < AnotherOne> ok thanks
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22:30 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 8 commits to master [+0/-0/±13] http://git.io/fD2leg
22:30 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 5dd5701 - Added stats command
22:30 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath cdf37b3 - NBT parser returns an error on read errors (Fixes #9)
22:30 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 3598b09 - Add error checking to protocol handling
22:30 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 20f2cad - Changes to view distance handling
22:30 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 1ed47e3 - Fixed crash on right clicking with item in hand
22:30 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 7880c39 - Fixed incorrect chunks loading
22:30 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 207dc40 - World unloading
22:30 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath e18554e - Decreased the time chunks hang around for
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04:19 < Not-003> [fCraft] fragmer * r1971 2 files : When a spectating player gets frozen, they are no longer stuck spectating (thanks ruggedbear and nuclearwaffle121)
04:22 < Not-003> [fCraft] fragmer * r1972 2 files : Added /to as an alias of /tp (by request)
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05:37 < Not-003> [MinersLauncher] fragmer pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/1uQ4Kw
05:37 < Not-003> [MinersLauncher] fragmer 62ccaf0 - 1.23: fixed log uploading (broken due to github API changes).
05:39 < Not-003> [MinersLauncher] fragmer pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/hCyUKQ
05:39 < Not-003> [MinersLauncher] fragmer ddc9d37 - Updated readme
06:18 < Not-003> [charged.github.com] fragmer pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-0/±0] http://git.io/X9f01A
06:18 < Not-003> [charged.github.com] fragmer 217e49a - Made a post regarding launcher updates 1.21-1.23
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07:42 < Not-003> [bravo] MostAwesomeDude pushed 5 commits to master [+0/-0/±21] http://git.io/erKZzQ
07:42 < Not-003> [bravo] Corbin Simpson 951b251 - chunk: Introduce a constant for chunk height.
07:42 < Not-003> [bravo] Corbin Simpson 60b0b9a - Use CHUNK_HEIGHT in place of 256.
07:42 < Not-003> [bravo] Corbin Simpson cca2977 - And update locations using 128 as well.
07:42 < Not-003> [bravo] Corbin Simpson c96a572 - utilities/coords: Add a couple more iterators. xz-coords are presented as a constant because they weigh just over 1KiB on CPython and are computationally cheaper than an invocation of product() on both CPython and PyPy. CPython before: 34.6us CPython after: 15.2us CPython speedup: 2.28x PyPy before: 146us PyPy after: 1.29us PyPy speedup: 113.18x
07:42 < Not-003> [bravo] Corbin Simpson 1717a8d - And use new coord helpers. Tests lost about 4 seconds of runtime on PyPy. Encouraging!
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09:01 < Not-003> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 5 commits to master [+3/-0/±31] http://git.io/0b1oJg
09:01 < Not-003> [Craft.Net] ggrote cd32db8 - - added cleaned chat message to Events/ChatMessageEventArgs.cs - fixed player position (y/stance) - added UpdateSign Handler - fixed MapChunkBulk and ChunkData Handlers - moved reading chunk from stream into single method - added LookAt and "basic" Move to MinecraftClient.Actions - fixed finding blocks by position
09:01 < Not-003> [Craft.Net] ggrote 7c5b15f - - changed ChatHandler to use indexof and remove instead of regex - reverted EntityHandlers.cs - removed braces and changed formatting - changed Move to start an async thread for movement - removed ProtocolVersion and FriendlyVersion as they are not used anymore
09:01 < Not-003> [Craft.Net] ggrote 617af5e - name refactoring
09:01 < Not-003> [Craft.Net] ggrote 903079b - added userid to session
09:01 < Not-003> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn dc43e73 - Upped protocol version
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12:53 < ellisvlad> Hi everyone :)
12:53 < pbunny> hi
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13:49 < ellisvlad> right...now to restart terrain generation lol
13:49 < ellisvlad> its all kinda broke
13:50 < ellisvlad> http://puu.sh/2TZ2q.jpg
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13:50 < ellisvlad> :D
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15:30 < TkTech> Morning all!
15:30 < TkTech> No objections to my changes earlier to the main page and protocol page?
15:33 < pbunny> link ?
15:33 < TkTech> http://wiki.vg/Special:RecentChanges
15:33 < TkTech> See my changes on the 12th of May.
15:40 < pbunny> who were the Great Old Ones? :p
15:40 < TkTech> Myself, aaera and ylt.
15:41 < TkTech> I wanted our names removed since so many others have kept it up to date, and someone replaced it with that.
15:43 < pbunny> "you must parse it completely to determine its length." - actually there is no need to determine the length at all. something like "you must parse it until it is finished" would be better imho
15:44 < TkTech> Makes more sense when you read the entire line.
15:44 < TkTech> "For variable length packets, you must parse it completely to determine its length."
15:45 < edk> it's irritating that packets don't come with a length, makes parsing in linear time hard
15:45 < pbunny> For variable length packets, you must parse it until you get some indication that this packet contains no more data.
15:46 < pbunny> edk: ++
15:46 < AnotherOne> fuck tcp
15:46 < AnotherOne> or no
15:46 < AnotherOne> fuck mojang
15:46 < dav1d> omg
15:47 < edk> there's a datagram-stream variant of TCP, I forget the name
15:47 < edk> why did it never catch on?
15:49 < edk> ah, it's not really a variant. i was thinking of SCTP
15:50 < pbunny> TkTech: seeing a number of bot accounts created in last few days, i would suggest a captcha to reg form
15:51 < edk> Just use "ask in IRC for an account" verification
15:51 < dav1d> pbunny: you need to confirm your email
15:51 < pbunny> dav1d: email creation can be automated 
15:51 < edk> email confirmation is easier for bots than it is for humans :P
15:51 < dav1d> before you can actually do anything
15:51 < pbunny> edk: ++
15:51 < dav1d> depends if you have sane blacklists
15:51 < pbunny> dav1d: http://mailinator.com/ - here you go
15:51 < dav1d> also my email took 2 month to arrive
15:51 < dav1d> yay
15:51 < dav1d> pbunny: I said sane blacklists
15:51 < edk> does mediawiki use blacklists at all?
15:52 < pbunny> dav1d: anybody can setup mail server on their host
15:52 < edk> it's a long time since i felt masochistic enough to play with it
15:52 < dav1d> pbunny: and?
15:52 < pbunny> dav1d: whitelist is needed then
15:52 < dav1d> no
15:52 < pbunny> dav1d: you can automate domain creation/deletion
15:52 < dav1d> just an activly maintained list
15:52 < pbunny> and so mails will be completely unique
15:52 < pbunny> dav1d: um, wrong
15:52 < dav1d> why names?
15:52 < dav1d> ips
15:52 < pbunny> dav1d: why not just put captcha?
15:53 < pbunny> imagine somebody with dynamic ip
15:53 < pbunny> etc
15:53 < dav1d> because that would be the easy way
15:53 < pbunny> you will have to blacklist entire ISP
15:53 < dav1d> wtf?
15:53 < pbunny> um.. some ISPs use dynamic IP pool
15:53 < pbunny> welcome to the real world
15:54 < dav1d> (told by a guy with stdout.lulzsec.com in his hostmask)
15:55 < pbunny> so basically, somebody can script the following: 1) renewing IP address from DHCP (changing) 2) getting free domain / subdomain of arbitrary dyndns domain 3) reconfiguring mail server (catch-all) for this domain 4) register on wiki 5) post shit to wiki
15:55 < pbunny> if done right, it will generate like 10 accounts per minute
15:55 < pbunny> every one with unique email name and host
15:55 < pbunny> and ip
15:56 < edk> that's easy to prevent
15:56 < edk> block dynamic IPs
15:56 < pbunny> LOL
15:56 < edk> and block dyndns and no-ip
15:56 < pbunny> edk: you can get domain in other ways too
15:56 <+clonejo> edk: and every Domain on afraid.org -.-
15:56 < edk> yeah
15:56 < pbunny> i.e. some registrars enable domain instantly and then send a bill
15:56 < pbunny> you will have to block them too
15:56 < dav1d> pbunny: oh yeah, or I just program a captcha cracker made for the mediawiki plugin
15:56 < edk> blocking dynamic ips isn't very hard
15:57 < dav1d> there are always ways
15:57 < pbunny> dav1d: a custom captcha is a solution
15:57 < dav1d> who cares, no one will do it because no one cares
15:57 < pbunny> or just a good captcha
15:57 < dav1d> pbunny: then someone will engineer a soloution for that
15:57 < pbunny> dav1d: there are no ways against complex captcha
15:57 < dav1d> there is always a way
15:57 < pbunny> dav1d: well only by using human captcha typers
15:57 < dav1d> pbunny: there is
15:57 < pbunny> but that will cost something
15:57 < dav1d> lol
15:57 < dav1d> if you would know
15:58 < dav1d> welcome to the "real world"
15:58 < edk> the only reliable way to prevent spambots is to have human verification for new accounts
15:58 < dav1d> ^
15:58 < pbunny> edk: by webcam!
15:58 < pbunny> or, better, live
15:58 < edk> nah, if the bot passes the turing test it's welcome to edit the wiki
15:58 < pbunny> :p
15:58 < pbunny> i like that idea
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15:59 < dav1d> edk: but but, what if it's hooked up to Siri!!!!
15:59 <+clonejo> dav1d: you forgot the occasional 1s between the exclamation marks
16:00 < dav1d> clonejo: darnit
16:00 < dav1d> now I see it too!!1!11!!!!1111111111
16:00 < dav1d> clonejo: did you ever have differenzengleichungen @uni?
16:01 <+clonejo> dav1d: not much
16:01 < dav1d> hate 'em xD
16:01 <+clonejo> dav1d: I think I have them now in Data structures and algorithms
16:02 < dav1d> yeah, I think they'll be part of everything^^
16:05 < Yoshi2> I've looked that topic up and wow, it looks confusing
16:18 < dav1d> Yoshi2: it is
16:18 < dav1d> basically how to "solve" recursion
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18:18 <+pdelvo> I had Differenzgleischungen a little bit at school. Dont like them. They are confusing
18:18 <+pdelvo> ch*
18:19 < dav1d> haha!
18:19 < dav1d> my thoughts
18:20 <+pdelvo> If you now the solution. You can pu it in and confirm that it works. but you have no idea why
18:21 < Yoshi2> it does not help that so many mathematics-related themes start with "Differenz<insert something here>" or a variation of it
18:26 < eddyb> wtf is differenzengleichungen?
18:26 < eddyb> also, CS is wrong when not in english
18:26 < eddyb> differential equations?
18:28 <+pdelvo> yep. equation with different derivates in it. Like U(t) +  R*C*U' +  L * C * U''(t) = 0
18:29 < eddyb> oh, that is nasty
18:30 <+pdelvo> This one can be found in physics. the resonant curcuit and can be solved with the sinus
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18:31 < eddyb> I know derivatives, but that's harder. I think I've encountered one of those while trying to work an integral the dumb way (x^n * e^x)
18:33 < eddyb> (f(x) * e^x)' = e^x * (f(x) + f'(x))
18:33 < eddyb> so f(x) + f'(x) - x^n = 0
18:35 < jast> actually differenzengleichungen != differentialgleichungen (differential equations)
18:36 < eddyb> great
18:37 < jast> differenzengleichung is recurrence relation in English, sometimes referred to in different scopes as difference equation
18:37 < eddyb> I can't tell the difference between those two wordmesses, btw
18:37 < jast> differential equations involve derivatives, recurrence relations are basically recursively defined functions
18:38 < jast> for example, x(n+1) = rx(n)(1-x(n))
18:38 < eddyb> huh
18:38 < eddyb> difference equation vs differential equation?
18:39 < jast> where (n+1) indicates "next value of series", not "argument to function"
18:39 < eddyb> that's why you use *
18:39 < eddyb> also, _ not () for subscript
18:39 < jast> in LaTeX syntax, $x_{n+1} = rx_n(1-x_n)$
18:39 < eddyb> that
18:40 < jast> _ with braces is not very readable, though
18:40 < eddyb> I need some kind of TeX support in my IRC client
18:40 < jast> I believe some clients have plugins for that
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18:47 <+pdelvo> btw @eddyb http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=f%28x%29%2Bf%27%28x%29-n%5Ex%3D0 I tried to get the solution by my own by guessing. But i gived up
18:47 < eddyb> you failed
18:47 < eddyb> it's x^n not n^x
18:48 < eddyb> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=f%28x%29%2Bf%27%28x%29-x%5En%3D0
18:48 < eddyb> uses the gamma function (whatever that is)
18:49 < eddyb> http://mathworld.wolfram.com/IncompleteGammaFunction.html
18:50 < eddyb> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incomplete_gamma_function
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18:50 <+pdelvo> oh :D makes it a lot more complex :D
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18:53 <+pdelvo> Wow. solving it with n^x is not that complex. Here is how it works, but I would never get this by my own: http://www4a.wolframalpha.com/Calculate/MSP/MSP2641di6d4gfa5ia57db00004g7180fgcdhgef74?MSPStoreType=image/png&s=13&w=483&h=822
18:58 < eddyb> pdelvo: I came up with that equation to solve an integral that looks exactly like the one in that solution, but with x^n not n^x...
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19:45 < ellisvlad> hi
19:50 < pbunny> hi
19:52 < ellisvlad> this world generation still has me stumped xD
19:54 < ellisvlad> Caves so complicated...just WHY!?!?!
19:56 < eddyb> because life is complicated
19:58 < pbunny> ellisvlad: feel free to use http://dpaste.org/CLF3r/
19:58 < pbunny> ( the code is obvious, no need to explain )
19:58 < pbunny> world generated is unusual but funny
20:02 < eddyb> "code is obvious"
20:02 < pbunny> :)
20:02 < pbunny> eddyb: it's even commented
20:02 < eddyb> yeah, 5 comments
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20:02 < pbunny> :)
20:02 < eddyb> just one word for a hundred lines
20:03 < eddyb> bad coding style, including variable names
20:03 < eddyb> commented-out code everywhere
20:03 < pbunny> eddyb: you have no reason to know what function-specific macros do
20:04 < eddyb> huh? there's code that you just disabled. by commenting
20:04 < eddyb> loads of it
20:04 < eddyb> and you take the time to add an out-of-place space after for and if, but you can't add spaces where it matters
20:04 < pbunny> its lighting
20:04 < pbunny> not tested well yet
20:04 < eddyb> for (y=254;y>0;y--) vs for(int y = 254; y > 0; y--)
20:05 < pbunny> i see no difference
20:05 < pbunny> btw, no need to redefine y
20:05 < eddyb> "redefine"
20:05 < eddyb> contextual definitions are better for everyone
20:05 <+Fador> you cannot do that in C anyway =/
20:05 <+Fador> you can only define variables at the start of the block
20:05 < eddyb> you can in the standard that's more than a decade old
20:05 < pbunny> Fador: nope
20:05 < eddyb> 13-14 years or so
20:05 < pbunny> you can define them in any part of the block
20:06 < Flemmard> depends with standard you use ..
20:06 < pbunny> however i defined them at the top for performance reasons (avoid redefining)
20:06 < eddyb> "performance reasons"
20:06 < dexter0> who still uses C89 anyway
20:06 < eddyb> you do realize you make the compiler's job much harder?
20:06 < eddyb> because now it has to prove that you're not using them outside of the loops
20:07 < pbunny> eddyb: what.
20:07 < eddyb> so it can optimize the definition back into the loop, where it belongs
20:07 < eddyb> this isn't the 80s
20:07 < pbunny> eddyb: what's wrong with using something outside of the loops?
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20:07 < eddyb> pbunny: it's costlier
20:07 < pbunny> i.e. use y outside loop, then use as loop counter, then somewhere else
20:07 < pbunny> eddyb: why?
20:07 < eddyb> because value spilling
20:08 < eddyb> and phis
20:08 < pbunny> what...
20:08 < pbunny> eddyb: unless you have multiple threads using same variable i see no problems
20:08 < eddyb> it's a complicated mess of things that a compiler has to work with
20:08 < pbunny> eddyb: no
20:08 < eddyb> to optimize random code
20:08 < pbunny> eddyb: when loop is finished, variable is free to be used
20:08 < eddyb> that can have bad assumptions
20:08 < Flemmard> eddyb i thought you promised not to mess with him anymore :>
20:08 < pbunny> um, you can use it even inside loop
20:09 < eddyb> Flemmard: mess with whom?
20:09 < pbunny> :p
20:09 < Flemmard> eddyb: try to commuincate with pbunny :P
20:09 < pbunny> eddyb: what if there's loop inside loop?
20:09 < eddyb> pbunny: let me put this in simple words: the more a variable stays alive, the more work the compiler has to do
20:09 < pbunny> if variable will be allocated only at loops' start, it will be allocated multiple times
20:09 < eddyb> it's never allocated
20:09 < pbunny> eddyb: lol? why?
20:09 < eddyb> that's the entire point
20:10 < pbunny> eddyb: aah, you mean compilation time?
20:10 < pbunny> i have no problem with extra 0.00001ms
20:10 < eddyb> it's more than that
20:10 < pbunny> no.
20:10 < pbunny> entire server compiles in about 0.1ms
20:10 < eddyb> and it's because a good compiler will put those declarations back into their loops
20:10 < pbunny> eddyb: no.
20:11 < eddyb> unless you do something dumb that prevents that
20:11 < pbunny> eddyb: when i know variable is to be used only once per function call, i declare it inside { }
20:11 < eddyb> do I really need to compare the loops at -O0? don't make me show assembly to you
20:11 <+Fador> hmm, so visual studio 2012 is suppose to use C99 and it does not allow defining variables in the middle of the block
20:12 < eddyb> Fador: you need to force it
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20:12 < eddyb> gcc can do C99, but it doesn't have it on by default, and I guess same goes for other compilers
20:12 < eddyb> pbunny: oh wow
20:13 < eddyb> pbunny: http://dpaste.org/CLF3r/#L724 a good compiler would combine z and x into a single loop variable
20:13 < eddyb> that transform probably has a name, I'm not sure what. but it can just loop 256 times, instead of nesting the loop
20:14 < pbunny> eddyb: it's more readable that way though
20:14 < pbunny> microoptimisations aren't as effective as you think anyway
20:14 < pbunny> anyway, i gtg
20:14 < eddyb> not saying you should optimize manually
20:14 < pbunny> have fun learning from my code
20:14 < eddyb> pbunny: now that optimization is impossible/unlikely to happen if you spill those variables
20:15 < eddyb> and some other code uses x or z and not z*16+x (which will become the loop variable
20:15 < eddyb> this is much easier to do when z and x are defined in their loops than outside
20:16 < eddyb> Flemmard: so tempted to rewrite his code
20:17 < eddyb> heh, assigning an one-use temporary to a function local. I can feel the pain of the compiler
20:18 < eddyb> "unsigned char" lol
20:19 < eddyb> pbunny: no offense, your code is actually pretty good, but the style makes it hard from someone else to grasp it. with some cleanup and a few more comments, you would have a self-documenting terraingen code
20:20 < Morrolan> Welp, that is one big function. :o
20:20 < dav1d> Morrolan: also macros!!!!111 they make everything so lightning fast
20:21 < eddyb> heh
20:21 < eddyb> I would use C++ on that code just to clean it up
20:22 < Yoshi2> I do think that 5 or 10 lines of comments in a file that is 950 lines long pretty much counts as "uncommented"
20:22 < dav1d> Yoshi2: documentation is for noobs!
20:22 < Morrolan> I am not familiar enough with C (it's C, isn't it?) to comment on that, dav1d. I was just slightly, uh, astonished when I saw that it's close to a thousand lines. :P
20:22 < dav1d> BraLa has no single comment, well, maybe 3, in a 50k codebase xD
20:23 < dav1d> Morrolan: ^
20:23 < eddyb> Morrolan: yeah, it's big
20:23 < dav1d> ok 50k is maybe a bit high, probably around 30k
20:23 < eddyb> you usually split a terraingen into passes. so at least you can redefine them
20:23 < eddyb> in C++ that's trivial, with virtual methods
20:24 < dav1d> C style inheritance!
20:24 < dav1d> build your own freaking vtable ftw!
20:24 < dexter0> function pointers :P
20:24 < eddyb> I would love to see a GC for C
20:24 < dav1d> dexter0: yeah :P
20:24 < dav1d> eddyb: boehm
20:24 < eddyb> just for, you know, torturing someone
20:24 < dav1d> eddyb: libgc
20:24 < eddyb> in case I evern need it
20:25 < dav1d> the first time I used gtk (with C) I was impressed by their OOP
20:25 < dav1d> the have basically classes with casting and all that shit implemented
20:25 < dav1d> you can downcast!
20:25 < dav1d> (well it's a macro)
20:27 < eddyb> ^_^
20:27 < eddyb> now if only we take the sweet.js macros (that are now in Rust) and put them in C, you can have real classes :P
20:29 < dav1d> eddyb: they manipulate the ast, don't they?
20:29 < dav1d> instead of copy&paste
20:48 < ellisvlad> anyway lol, if anyone is still interested, I fixed up terrain gen :D http://puu.sh/2UKhO.jpg
20:48 < ellisvlad> about to start on caves :S
20:50 < Morrolan> Pretty.
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21:24 < randomguy_> hi, is it possible to skip encryption server side? sending empty 0xFC after handshake results in client's null pointer
21:25 < randomguy_> or I just need to send 0x01 directly after handshake?
21:26 < ellisvlad> Not sure, best just to encrypt everything
21:26 < ellisvlad> lol
21:26 < randomguy_> meh just want to have an option to skip it
21:31 < dav1d> ellisvlad: not bad!
21:32 < ellisvlad> thanks ;)
21:33 < ellisvlad> caves are much harder 0.0
21:33 < eddyb> randomguy_: check offline mode, it might not encrypt, but I'm not sure
21:33 < dav1d> ellisvlad: may I suggested a perlin worm?
21:33 < dav1d> eddyb: no
21:33 < dav1d> eddyb: iirc this has nothing todo with online/offline mode
21:33 < dav1d> (and I am pretty sure I do remember correctly)
21:33 < eddyb> ok then, you can't disable it
21:34 < dav1d> you can
21:34 < eddyb> huh?
21:34 < dav1d> well you could in 1.4.7
21:34 < dav1d> lemmy check my client sources...
21:34 < eddyb> dav1d: but offline mode encryption is useless/not that safe. at least that's what I remember. or maybe you're right and encryption can be disabled, but IIRC only offline mode could be dangerous encryption-wise
21:34 < eddyb> nevermind
21:34 < dav1d> eddyb: why?
21:35 < dav1d> encryption is session independend
21:35 < dav1d> randomguy_: I think you simply omit the encryption packets
21:35 < eddyb> I just know you're safe in online-mode but you can get screwed in offline-mode
21:35 < eddyb> not sure on what level the difference is
21:35 < dav1d> EncryptionKeyRequest
21:35 < dav1d> eddyb: encryption is completly independend from the offline mode
21:37 < eddyb> what I know is that it's either disabled/disableable/not-as-safe in offline-mode
21:38 < eddyb> maybe it has something to do with the lack of verification through mojang's servers
21:39 < randomguy_> so encryption skip only with offline mode right...?
21:40 <+clonejo> randomguy_: yep
21:40 < Yoshi2> I just took a look at how I handled the encryption in my old client and, as far as the encryption is concerned, it is completly unrelated to online/offline mode
21:41 < randomguy_> Yoshi2: server token for minecraft.net auth is in encryption request
21:42 < ellisvlad> dav1d: I did look into perlin worms...but I would prefer to have more control over the generation. Like I had the option to use standard 2D perlin for the heightmap, but instead made my own proceedure.
21:42 < ellisvlad> Caves looking good so far :D
21:43 < randomguy_> okey and now client->server...client receives encryption requests, and sends 0xCD directly...I guess it should work
21:43 < dav1d> ellisvlad: I simply assumed they were the easiest to implement with the best results (I had an idea of implementing a terrain gen, but never did it)
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21:43 < dav1d> ellisvlad: make sure to send me a screenshot :)
21:43 < dav1d> Yoshi2: same here
21:45 < ellisvlad> ;)
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23:02 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/XUsMXg
23:02 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 0e9e070 - Improved NBT parser speed
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03:33 < Not-003> [mineflayer] zuazo pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±3] http://git.io/lGdsCA
03:33 < Not-003> [mineflayer] zuazo 8b39a06 - Release 0.1.1
03:35 < TkTech> Ooo, mineflayer release.
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05:41 < AnotherOne> sup
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07:36 < AnotherOne> anybody here?
07:38 < dexter0> 96 people exactly, minus a bot or two.
07:38 < AnotherOne> good:)
07:38 < AnotherOne> can you explain me how to use a proxy server with my custom client?
07:39 < dexter0> what kind of proxy server?
07:40 < dexter0> SMProxy or mc3p (I think that's what it's called)?
07:41 < AnotherOne> i dont know exactly how to explain. i have a client and i want to hide my ip address. i can connect to proxy itself, but i don't know how to make it connect to needed server
07:42 < AnotherOne> and i dont know if i can use any proxy or not
07:42 < dexter0> Ah, the protocol encryption makes that impossible.
07:43 < AnotherOne> i dont encrypt it
07:43 < AnotherOne> and it works somehow
07:43 < dexter0> Clients don't have a choice about encryption, it's required.
07:43 <+Zaneo> What version of  minecraft is your custom client for?
07:43 < AnotherOne> 1.5.2
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07:45 < AnotherOne> i just dont send encryption key response, and data i get seems valid
07:45 < AnotherOne> but it is on local server
07:45 < dexter0> Is it in offline mode?
07:45 < AnotherOne> yes
07:46 < dexter0> that may explain it
07:46 < AnotherOne> so what about a proxy?
07:46 < dexter0> SMProxy or mc3p are the two proxies I'm aware of
07:47 < dexter0> but it's kinda pointless if you want to hide your IP, there are no public mine craft proxies so you'd have to run SMProxy or mc3p on a server you control.
07:48 < AnotherOne> are there any proxies those dont care of data passing-through?
07:49 < dexter0> that does not make sense, SSH tunnel is the closest thing I can think of.
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07:52 < AnotherOne> oh fick
07:52 < AnotherOne> thank you
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08:16 < Not-003> [bravo] MostAwesomeDude pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/58PYZw
08:16 < Not-003> [bravo] Corbin Simpson 0b968a5 - plugins/window_hooks: Remove old print statements.
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10:37 < pbunny> eddyb: making code easier to read than it already is means treating others like dull persons who are unable to understand it as you do
10:37 < pbunny> it's kind of disrespectful, i think
10:39 < jast> bullshit
10:39 < jast> I appreciate code that is easier to read when I have to wade through a couple hundred thousand lines of it
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10:41 < jast> *of course* I can understand *any* code, given enough time, but I don't always wish to unnecessarily spend extra time puzzling out code that tries to be too clever for its own good
10:42 < pbunny> jast: of course it's easier to read documented code
10:42 < pbunny> but if many things will be easy, brain will get out of shape soon
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10:42 < pbunny> it needs training
10:42 < jast> you've never worked on a *big* project, have you?
10:43 < jast> no matter how simple the code reads, there's plenty of training left
10:43 < pbunny> jast: my server is big enough i think
10:43 < pbunny> i can read it without any comments
10:43 < jast> please wait while I count the number of lines of code of the project I'm currently working on
10:44 < jast> 357784
10:44 < jast> excluding javascript code and documentation
10:45 < jast> also excluding the java-based components (not by choice, I assure you)
10:46 < jast> there's plenty of brain training in trying to chase down surprising interactions between various components
10:54 < pbunny> jast: well, my paste that eddyb critisised for lacking comments was less than 1000 lines long
10:54 < pbunny> so your case does not apply
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11:04 < jast> right. so, to repeat your argument, it's disrespectful to not force another person to get unwanted brain training. right?
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11:07 < pbunny> if brain training is unwanted, something is probably not right with person's goals or motivations
11:07 < pbunny> so "unwanted" argument can be safely ignored
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11:17 < AnotherOne> heh
11:17 < AnotherOne> i think pbunny is wrong
11:18 < AnotherOne> brain training must not be like this
11:18 < AnotherOne> but like solving new interesting problems
11:22 < jast> well obviously pbunny knows best what's good for everyone
11:22 < pbunny> yep
11:22 < jast> everyone else is an idiot
11:22 < pbunny> i agree
11:22 < jast> that's an excellent basis for a fruitful discussion
11:22 < pbunny> ++
11:22 < jast> I'm not terribly surprised
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12:11 < eddyb> haha
12:11 < eddyb> jast: my first contact with good coding practices came from a C++ hobby OS project
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12:12 < eddyb> and recently I got nitpicked by the traceur-compiler guys (the main dev is also a chromium dev, and they have serious code review)
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16:54 < ellisvlad> hi
16:54 < ellisvlad> how is everyone today :)
16:54 <+pdelvo> hi
16:54 <+pdelvo> Im fine. What about you?
16:54 < ellisvlad> gd gd, just had an exam, now I can get back to programming ;)
17:00 < Yoshi2> same here :D
17:01 < Yoshi2> today is one of the days where I just feel like writing something
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17:22 < AnotherOne> today is one of the days where i just feel lazy
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00:33 < randomguy_> hi
00:35 < randomguy_> I am looking for something to debug protocol issues, does someone maybe have minecraft client which prints received packets...?
00:35 < dexter0> SMProxy
00:36 < randomguy_> minecraft client is throwing not in gzip format - I guess there is only one packet using gzip..?
00:39 < randomguy_> or nbt D:
00:43 < randomguy_> it looks like bad packet is entity eq packet, so the problem is reading slots or nbt in slots
00:49 < randomguy_> smproxy is outdated ;/
00:54 < dexter0> only other proxy I'm aware of is mc3p
00:55 < dexter0> or you can go bother the SMProxy maintainer about SMProxy's outdate-ness.  He hangs around in #craft.net
00:59 < TkTech> sadimusi's mc3p seems a bit out of date as well, 4 months.
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01:05 < randomguy_> Warning! Specified protocol version does not match SMProxy supported version!
01:05 < randomguy_> well it looks like I just need to found 60 and replace it with 61
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12:32 < AnotherOne> hey people
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13:16 <+pdelvo> hey
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15:38 < Trojaner> does anyone know which protocol version changed the ping packet format?
15:42 < AnotherOne> help me please
15:43 < AnotherOne> i'm trying to write player spammer, on local server it's just fine, but on remote ones i have only one connection a time
15:44 < AnotherOne> is it some kind of bukkit protection?
15:45 < AnotherOne> the idea is sending handshake and client statuses messages
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15:58 <+clonejo> That server might only allow one connection per IP
16:14 <+sadimusi> AnotherOne: you can only connect once every five seconds from the same IP
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16:19 <+clonejo> sadimusi: Is it the same for ping requests, too?
16:20 <+sadimusi> I think so
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17:06 < SinZ> Trojaner: 1.4 did it iirc (51)
17:07 < Not-003> [mc3p] sadimusi pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/VhPZJA
17:07 < Not-003> [mc3p] sadimusi 913ca43 - Protocol versions 52 - 61 (1.5.2)
17:08 < SinZ> make that 52
17:08 <+sadimusi> sure? in that case I just missed it
17:10 < SinZ> 1.4 changed it from memory
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17:11 <+sadimusi> yes, that definitely 
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17:12 <+sadimusi> well, since it's still implemented in a string a proxy doesn't have to worry about it
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17:16 < SinZ> http://wiki.vg/Server_List_Ping was added in 1.4
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18:06 < randomguy_> does anyone care to update burger ;/
18:06 < randomguy_> I am debugging some inventory problems, what windows packets were changed in 1.5?
18:09 < SinZ> http://b.wiki.vg/1.4.6pre...1.5pre
18:09 < randomguy_> not pre
18:09 < SinZ> nothing changed
18:09 < randomguy_> 0x66 changed and it isn't there
18:10 < SinZ> sadimusi: can you tell burger vitrine to check 1.5.2?
18:10 <+sadimusi> I can try
18:10 < randomguy_> 1.5.2 wasn't pushed to old launcher, afaik
18:10 < SinZ> it was
18:11 < randomguy_> oh
18:11 < randomguy_> ok
18:11 < SinZ> it just isn't on the assets server, because it was never a snapshot/pre-release for the old launcher
18:12 < SinZ> perma-link for it is: s3.amazonaws.com/Minecraft.Download/versions/1.5.2/1.5.2.jar
18:13 < randomguy_> YAY
18:13 < randomguy_> inventory problems fxied
18:13 <+sadimusi> no protocol changes http://b.wiki.vg/1.5pre...1.5.2
18:13 < randomguy_> just needed to change booleans for bytes as in new 0x66
18:13 <+sadimusi> or was that the wrong version?
18:14 < SinZ> seems right
18:14 < randomguy_> sadimusi: weird, 0x66 isn't on burger anywhere
18:14 < randomguy_> 1.4.6->1.5.2 too
18:14 <+sadimusi> I used the old url so it might be 1.5
18:14 < SinZ> protocol version jumped right between 1.5.1 and 1.5.2
18:15 < randomguy_> protocol jump between 1.5.1 and .2 was just protocol version...right?
18:15 < SinZ> yup
18:15 < randomguy_> I guess protocol version was bumped to stop people from abusing anvils using 1.5.1 clients D:
18:16 < randomguy_> oh lets see if diamonds still dupe in 1.5.2
18:17 < randomguy_> I guess burger doesn't note 0x66 because boolean is a byte too 
18:18 <+sadimusi> where did you find that 0x66 change?
18:19 < randomguy_> sadimusi: before 1.5 there was two booleans in 0x66 iirc the shift click and mouse button
18:19 < randomguy_> 0-1
18:19 < randomguy_> now it is mode and button (byte)
18:20 <+sadimusi> ok, those were already bytes iirc
18:20 < randomguy_> yeah
18:20 < randomguy_> that's why burger doesn't show anything
18:20 <+sadimusi> I updated mc3p btw
18:22 < randomguy_> anyone checked if diamonds duping was patched in 1.5.2 :D?
18:49 < AnotherOne> what way?
19:00 < randomguy_> tnt and droppers
19:04 < AnotherOne> on most servers this is "fixed" with turning off explosions:D
19:05 < AnotherOne> but how does this work?
19:05 < dav1d> what a fix...
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19:20 <+Amaranth> AnotherOne: One most servers this is "fixed" by using CraftBukkit :P
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09:27 < dx> eddyb: sup
09:27 < eddyb> heh
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10:58 < Not-003> [mc-erl] clonejo pushed 3 commits to master [+3/-0/±3] http://git.io/z67BfA
10:58 < Not-003> [mc-erl] clonejo 1df1d22 - updated rebar
10:58 < Not-003> [mc-erl] clonejo de49d09 - added postgresql based chunk storage
10:58 < Not-003> [mc-erl] clonejo 0b7f339 - added lager
10:58 <+clonejo> whoops, didn't mean to push that
10:59 < Not-003> [mc-erl] clonejo pushed 1 commit to master [+5/-6/±7] http://git.io/Jb9Pog
10:59 < Not-003> [mc-erl] clonejo 00a9099 - huge changes going on, NOT WORKING
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14:03 < Nerolat> Hello, I have a question - can I use putty's raw to connect to server?
14:03 < SinZ> not really
14:05 < Nerolat> Hm, I tried using it, sent all sorts of requests, every of them gave me a protocol error, however, one of them acted differently - I sent "Hi" and one of the plugins gave me error that it is going to ignore a packet with id of 74 or something
14:07 < Nerolat> Well, I guess I'll need to learn some sort of scripting/programming language, as I can't do anything with C++ sockets.
14:07 < Nerolat> Any recommendations? I know how to do python a bit.
14:09 < SinZ> can do it in any language with networking
14:09 < SinZ> has been done several times in python
14:09 < Nerolat> Yes, but I am not familiar with C++ sockets.
14:10 < Nerolat> I am wondering why raw is not working
14:12 <+Fador> what kind of requests were you sending anyway?
14:12 <+Fador> you know it's a binary protocol?
14:18 < dav1d> Nerolat: you dont mean real raw sockets do you?
14:18 < Nerolat> I was trying to send 0x02, Hi, Test, etc.
14:18 < Nerolat> Dav1d, dunno, it is just an option in putty.
14:23 < Nerolat> Yeah, I failed.
14:24 < Nerolat> Didn't notice that these were packets. Dunno why.
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14:38 <+Fador> I don't even know the best way to send binary data with the "raw" connection of putty =/
14:38 <+Fador> alt+numkeys maybe
14:41 <+clonejo> What about netcat?
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14:55 < dav1d> clonejo: windows?
14:55 <+clonejo> dav1d: idk what your talking about, have your terminal in an X window if you want :P
14:56 < dav1d> clonejo: he is probably using windows, so no netcat
14:56 < dav1d> otherwise you wouldnt use putty.
14:56 <+clonejo> dav1d: just kidding
14:56 <+clonejo> *you're
14:58 < dav1d> clonejo: what?
14:59 < SinZ> he is correcting his previous message
14:59 < Nerolat> I am using windows, indeed.
15:01 <+clonejo> Nerolat: sure, but speaking a binary protocol manually is painful
15:01 < SinZ> ^
15:01 < Nerolat> Well, I am doing it one time anyway.
15:01 < Nerolat> I just need to test a thing.
15:01 < SinZ> you will timeout
15:01 < Nerolat> Can't I keep sending keep alive?
15:01 < SinZ> there are no keep-alives during the authentication stage
15:02 <+clonejo> Nerolat: the server floods you with too many data, 
15:02 <+clonejo> *too much
15:02 < SinZ> and are really strict about timing
15:02 < Nerolat> Well, I still want to try and see if it works out.
15:02 < Nerolat> I plan to just go until the auth and encrypt stage
15:03 <+clonejo> Nerolat: have you tried sending a ping request?
15:04 < SinZ> 0xFE or 254
15:04 <+clonejo> Nerolat: http://wiki.vg/Protocol#Server_List_Ping_.280xFE.29
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15:04 < AnotherOne> hello people
15:04 <+clonejo> oh, another one
15:05 < Nerolat> Well, what do I use for magic?
15:05 < AnotherOne> i need some help about c++
15:05 < Nerolat> Do I just send 0xFE through putty or what?
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15:06 < AnotherOne> or no
15:06 < AnotherOne> i dont need any help anymore:)
15:06 < SinZ> Nerolat: 0xFE, 0x01
15:07 < Nerolat> Do I send these both in one string, SinZ?
15:07 < SinZ> Shouldn't be touching strings
15:07 < Nerolat> I mean in one message
15:07 < SinZ> in one packet, yes
15:07 < Nerolat> Like this, but without "? "0xFE, 0x01"
15:08 < Nerolat> If yes, then my server doesn't respond, just disconnects from the client.
15:10 <+Fador> no, you send alt+256 and alt+1
15:11 <+Fador> because it's binary protocol.. ;)
15:12 < Nerolat> Hmm, no response
15:12 <+Fador> enter?
15:12 < Nerolat> Well, I just press alt+256, exactly after taht without pressing space alt+1, then press enter and it allows me to input anything again
15:12 < Nerolat> Can't explain it easly
15:12 < Nerolat> easily, even.
15:13 <+Fador> that works on my server =)
15:13 < Nerolat> Putty on raw protocol or telnet?
15:13 <+Fador> http://fador.be/g/1b49991120d73f21d591a257cf5bb01e.png
15:13 <+Fador> putty raw
15:14 <+Fador> oh wait, it was alt+254
15:14 < Nerolat> http://puu.sh/2WBGU.png
15:14 < Nerolat> Oh
15:15 < Nerolat> It is working now!
15:15 <+Fador> great ;)
15:15 < Nerolat> How do I know which alt numpad do I press?
15:16 <+Fador> 0xFE = 254
15:16 < Nerolat> Yeah, but I mean things like handshake etc.
15:16 <+Fador> it gets quite complicated to do that by hand =D
15:18 < Nerolat> Oh
15:18 < Nerolat> calculator got a function for that
15:19 < dx> it would be useful to know what Nerolat wants to do
15:19 < Nerolat> Login to a server using putty.
15:19 < dx> that isn't very precise
15:20 < Nerolat> Hm?
15:21 < dx> either way, what Fador did was just a server list ping, it's a single packet and it's pretty much something completely different to the rest of the protocol
15:21 < Nerolat> Yes, I am not really trying to login to a server, more like login process until a constant stage
15:22 < Nerolat> I am really just trying to handshake with the server
15:22 <+Fador> protocol encryption would be fun with putty =)
15:22 < dx> ^
15:22 < Nerolat> Yes, that is what I meant by staying until a constant stage
15:22 < Nerolat> Until the encryption starts
15:23 < dx> uh..
15:26 < dx> so basically
15:26 < dx> you don't know any programming language
15:27 < dx> and want to type alt-codes in putty to send one handshake packet, and nothing else after that
15:27 < dx> this situation makes perfect sense.
15:27 < Nerolat> I do know C++, but really...I don't know how to do networking.
15:27 < Nerolat> Yes, that is what I want to do.
15:28 < Nerolat> Testing, experimenting, you know?
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15:29 < dx> here, have fun http://beej.us/guide/bgnet/
15:29 < Nerolat> Damn you.
15:29 < dx> you'll have to google a bit to translate the bsd socket api to winsock equivalents, but i heard winsock is basically a ripoff of bsd sockets anyway
15:30 < Nerolat> I know how to use virtualbox, you know.
15:30 < dx> fine too
15:30 < dx> cygwin would also work
15:31 < dx> also, if you do have a linux, just use echo -e '\x02etc etc' | nc server 25565
15:31 < dx> *echo -ne
15:31 < Nerolat> What does that do?
15:31 < dav1d> magic
15:31 < dx> ^
15:32 < Nerolat> Can't I use python for networking? I know the syntax, but how is it compared to C++ by difficulty?
15:32 < dx> why do i get the impression that you only know c++ because of some high school level classes or something like that
15:33 < Nerolat> Because your impression is wrong - I just can't get pointers and references and typedefs etc right, and that massivesly demotyvate me
15:34 < Nerolat> massively, even.
15:34 < dx> uh..
15:34 < dx> either way python's socket module mirrors the bsd socket api explained by beej's guide, slightly higher level but basically the same shit
15:35 < Nerolat> Yes, I understand how the sockets etc work, but all those complicated settings, pointers, references etc etc are too hard for me.
15:35 < dav1d> Nerolat: c++ sockets are the same as python sockets
15:35 < dav1d> use python?
15:35 < dav1d> or any other language you like
15:36  * dx actually had no idea about any C++ object oriented api for sockets
15:36 < Nerolat> c++ is damn object oriented
15:36 < dav1d> and?
15:36 < Nerolat> And I can't deal with object oriented and pointers etc.
15:36 < dx> i like to think about c++ as C with a bunch of useless features everyone should avoid using
15:37 < dav1d> c is basically a subset of c++
15:37 < dav1d> Nerolat: well then good luck, in python everything is an object
15:37 < Nerolat> no pointers and references at least AFAIK
15:37 < dx> and every time you use an object it's passed as reference
15:38 < dav1d> Nerolat: every object is a reference
15:38 < dav1d> yeah
15:38 < dav1d> what dx said
15:38 < dav1d> you have that basically in every language
15:39 < dav1d> and it's really not hard...
15:40 < edk> C++ is a horrible language
15:40 < dx> hmm, actually, languages like erlang don't have mutable variables, does that count as passing every parameter by value not by reference?
15:40 < dav1d> edk: yes it is
15:40 < Nerolat> edk: How dare you!
15:41 < dav1d> lol
15:41 < dav1d> you just said you dont understand it then you think edk is wrong with that statement...
15:41 < Nerolat> dav1d: How dare you too!
15:41 < Nerolat> Java is more horrible language!
15:41 < dav1d> you have no idea
15:41 < Nerolat> I do, a bit.
15:41 < dx> pbunny v2
15:41 < edk> C++ and Java have the same retarded object|object dichotomy but apart from that C++ is much more horrible
15:41 < dav1d> why do you assume that?
15:42 < Nerolat> However, C++ is much more faster.
15:42  * edk laughs
15:42 < dav1d> C++ is (completly) different
15:42 < Nerolat> It is
15:42 < dav1d> Nerolat: lol, java is JITed
15:42 < dav1d> and the JIT tends to get pretty good
15:42 < Nerolat> At least C++ doesn't use some shitty virtual machines
15:42 < dav1d> Nerolat: lol
15:42 < dav1d> you know what a JIT is?
15:42 < Nerolat> Which just slow them down.
15:42 < Nerolat> No, not really.
15:42 < edk> then don't complain about it!
15:42 < dav1d> Nerolat: then you have no idea what you're talking about
15:42 < dx> #mcdevs: where we derail pointless discussions into even more pointless discussions that are at least a bit more interesting
15:43 < dav1d> Nerolat: JIT > native code (can be)
15:43 < Nerolat> Still, Java is not so fast.
15:43 < Nerolat> Though I like the runtime compilation on java
15:43 < dav1d> ...
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15:46 < Nerolat> Well, it is a never ending war between two group of people
15:46 < edk> it would end if you went and looked at some benchmarks
15:46 < dav1d> haha
15:46 < Nerolat> If you go to any C++ programming channel, you'll see that people say that C++ is better than Java, if you go to any java channel, you'll see that they hate c++
15:46 < Nerolat> Both have pros and both have minuses
15:46 < edk> The minuses are usually called cons, but yes
15:46 < dx> i don't think they argue about performance
15:47 < dx> that would be dumb
15:47 < edk> yeah
15:47 < edk> they're both horrible languages, imo
15:47 < dx> ^
15:47 <+ammar2> we having a java performance "discussion"? where is pbunny?
15:47 < dav1d> ammar2: lost in his preprocessor
15:47 < dx> loling
15:48 < edk> He's probably got a deadlock condition between thread #2153910 and thread #3651035246342631
15:49 < dx> anyway
15:49 < dx> Nerolat: go nuts http://docs.python.org/2/library/socket.html
15:49 < dav1d> and there was a good lib for the packets...
15:49 < dav1d> construct?
15:50 < dx> yeah, construct is nice, but the stdlib has "struct" which is also cool for simple stuff
15:50 < dav1d> I always wanted to test it out.. but that's what you get for using D, a simple struct, done
15:50 < dav1d> dx: yeah but I would say MC protocol with "struct" is quite some work
15:52 < dx> defining the whole protocol is a lot of work with anything, although construct makes it really nice to handle dynamic-ish fields
15:52 < dx> i think mostawesomedude used it
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15:53 < dx> rip
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15:55 < dx> oh hey bravo's development is still alive
15:55 < dx> is MAD here under a different nick? i think he changed it but i don't remember it
15:57 < dav1d> the bravo devs are here
15:57 < dav1d> just cant remember the name
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16:16 <+ammar2> dx: he was here under the "simpson" moniker a while ago
16:16 < dx> ammar2: oh.
16:16 < dav1d> ah yeah right
16:16 < dav1d> something with s, all I remembered xD
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16:17 < dx> 15:12 -!- simpson [~simpsoco@osuosl/staff/mostawesomedude] has left #mcdevs ["And this one, too. >:T"]
16:17 < dx> february 19
16:18 < dx> i don't see any relevant context for that /part
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16:56 < AnotherOne> oh that sweet holy war
16:56 < AnotherOne> if you want to know my opinion, java is for kiddies
16:56 < dav1d> ^ lol
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16:57 < AnotherOne> total "security", which only gives you less freedom
16:57 < AnotherOne> and yes
16:57 < AnotherOne> java is slow
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18:03 <+clonejo> AnotherOne: Java doesn't have to be slow. But it likes to allocate tons of RAM
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18:21 < AnotherOne> yes, it does
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18:25 < AnotherOne> garbage collector with no options is such a shit
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18:39 < Calinou> lol
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22:56 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 7 commits to master [+2/-0/±12] http://git.io/D1Bkrw
22:56 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 324d9ba - Minor NBT parser changes
22:56 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 147c8db - Reduced chunk tick rate
22:56 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 65c4a41 - Fixed type NBT byte arrays needing []byte instead of []int8
22:56 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath bb6b284 - Fix empty NBT lists
22:56 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath b8c10a4 - Fix NBT int arrays
22:56 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 3ef134a - NBT Fixes
22:56 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath c52f011 - Chunk saving (Broken... kinda)
23:07 < eddyb> maybe...
23:07 < eddyb> (not)
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23:48 < AnotherOne> anybody here?
23:49 < shoghicp> AnotherOne: yes
23:49 < AnotherOne> can i use protobuf for creating classes for minecraft messages?
23:50 < shoghicp> I don't know :(
23:52 < AnotherOne> im so bored of making those damn classes
23:56 <+pdelvo> They are not "that" much packets :D I have only 93 and I have some old ones in there too. Just keep going :D
--- Day changed lun. mai 20 2013
00:08 < AnotherOne> yep
00:08 < AnotherOne> i will:)
00:09 < AnotherOne> the most boring part
00:09 < AnotherOne> once i get all of the packets i will be ALLMIGHTY
00:09 <+pdelvo> when you implemented all of them comes the not so funny part. finding mistakes you made. This can be really annoying
00:09 < AnotherOne> exceptions, exceptions everywhere:)
00:10 < AnotherOne> its better to debug man
00:10 < AnotherOne> and this packet order
00:10 < AnotherOne> different everywhere
00:11 < AnotherOne> solution that i got in my mind is too ugly
00:12 <+pdelvo> Funny errors like "string length < 0. weird string", unknown packet xx" and many more. the biggest problem: its hard to see which implementation was wrong because sometimes it can parse some following "packets", fails after some because 50 packets before it became out of sync. this is annoying
00:13 <+pdelvo> I implemented some unit tests that can find some mistakes I made by trying to write every packet into memory and reading them afterwards. but this does not help in most cases
00:13 -!- gmazoyer_ is now known as gmazoyer
00:16 < AnotherOne> because minecraft servers like to send some packet in several parts
00:16 < AnotherOne> and i dont know how to determine if i have complete hext packet in my buffer
00:17 < AnotherOne> fuckit, my "comfort zone" is left, it is now really hard
00:19 <+pdelvo> no. lets se. there is a packet x (0x01, 0x02, 0x03, 0x04). it has a length of 4 bytes, but your implemention only reads three (a mistake). then you go on. now you have a 0x04 as the next packet id and you read on as if nothing happens. you read until you have e.g. a string with a negative length. at this point you know something went wrong and the problem must be in a packet before. finding which packet caused that can be hard
00:20 <+pdelvo> For me I have written a class which allows me to read a fixed amount of bytes. when I want to get 4000 it will wait until 4000 are avialable. So I dont have to care any longer how packets are splitted on their way over the network
00:21 < AnotherOne> hm
00:21 < AnotherOne> what buffer do you use?
00:22 < AnotherOne> im just reading bytes constantly in a thread
00:22 < AnotherOne> omfg i just got http://www.wiki.vg/Protocol#Client_Settings_.280xCC.29
00:22 < AnotherOne> fukken how?
00:22 <+pdelvo> This is how I made it: https://github.com/pdelvo/Pdelvo.Minecraft/blob/master/Pdelvo.Minecraft.Network/FullyReadStream.cs#L85
00:23 < AnotherOne> looks like it is about your previous quotes:)
00:23 < AnotherOne> oh, c#
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00:41 < AnotherOne> hey
00:42 < AnotherOne> im getting only CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC
00:42 < AnotherOne> what is this?
00:46 <+sadimusi> AnotherOne: are you building a server like everyone else?
00:48 < AnotherOne> a client
00:48 <+sadimusi> oh, nice
00:48 <+sadimusi> and I guess you haven't touched encryption yet
00:48 < AnotherOne> yep
00:49 <+sadimusi> well, to debug the packet parser a proxy is quite handy
00:49 < dexter0> what language?
00:49 <+sadimusi> it probably can't explain an endless stream of 0xcc though ;)
00:49 < AnotherOne> C++
00:49 < dexter0> how far are you going to take it?  GUI, 3d?
00:51 < AnotherOne> in my dreams it is a fully functional client without constant 10 fps
00:51 <+sadimusi> good luck with that :D
00:51 < dexter0> cool, do you have a github link?
00:51 < AnotherOne> nope
00:51 < AnotherOne> it is still a little non-functional
00:52 < AnotherOne> i will make github later
00:52 < AnotherOne> i think dat server banned me:)
00:55 < AnotherOne> cc meant buffer was empty
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01:56 < AnotherOne> anyone knows how does client get teams messages?
01:56 < AnotherOne> there are a lot of data
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04:32 < TkTech> sadimusi: Given any thought to renaming your fork?
04:33 <+sadimusi> TkTech: not really, why?
04:33 < TkTech> sadimusi: mmcgill hasn't updated his in a year+ and searching mc3p always returns his first.
04:33 < TkTech> People here mention mc3p when debugging is needed, but a search will always return one really out of date.
04:34 <+sadimusi> ah right, you mentioned that before
04:35 <+sadimusi> I just can't think of a good name :/
04:36 < TkTech> Careful asking for names, that's how I ended up with Burger.
04:36 <+sadimusi> :D
05:00 < dx> lol i have a pending pull request on mmcgill's mc3p
05:00 < dx> https://github.com/mmcgill/mc3p/pull/11
05:13 < TkTech> dx: 11 months ago...
05:13 < dx> yep
05:13 < TkTech> He's active on github, and on a minecraft-related repo.
05:13 < dx> sadimusi: call it mc4p :D
05:13 < TkTech> Wonder why he stopped caring.
05:14 < dx> i have no idea what's the extra "p", though, but you can think that later and name the project mc4p now
05:14 < TkTech> p for proxy?
05:14 < TkTech> Minecraft 3 Proxy?
05:14 < dx> 3p means protocol parsing proxy
05:14 < dx> 4p would be another p-word
05:14 < TkTech> Ah, derp.
05:15 < TkTech> portable protocol parsing proxy 
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05:32 < dx> "prevailing protocol parsing proxy" :D
05:32 < dx> or prevalent
05:32 <+AndrewPH> pretty-good
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05:32 <+AndrewPH> or make it print things in color, and make it just pretty'
05:33 < dx> hah
05:33 < dx> or extremely literal for what it is right now: "patched"
05:33 < SinZ> MineCraft Pretty Printing Prevailing Portable Protocol Parsing Proxy, or MC7P
05:33 < dx> :D
05:35 < dx> you can also add "python" and confuse people who thought mc3p was python too
06:04 < Not-003> [fCraft] fragmer * r1973 2 files : PlayerDB autocompletion now correctly handles players with '.' in their names.
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08:16 < Not-003> [bravo] MostAwesomeDude pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/uGo2qw
08:16 < Not-003> [bravo] Corbin Simpson 9e0178a - terrain/trees: Some PEP8.
08:16 < Not-003> [bravo] Corbin Simpson 1be6a20 - terrain/trees: Share species numbers and use names for them. Cleaner, faster, etc.
08:51 < Not-003> [bravo] MostAwesomeDude pushed 3 commits to master [+0/-0/±4] http://git.io/BRS3kQ
08:51 < Not-003> [bravo] Corbin Simpson df93e32 - terrain/trees: A big pile of PEP8 fixes.
08:51 < Not-003> [bravo] Corbin Simpson 8de4aff - utilities/maths: Add Pythagorean distance, and test.
08:51 < Not-003> [bravo] Corbin Simpson 8ef1655 - terrain/trees: Fix up a couple distance calculations.
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10:06 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/K3B38Q
10:06 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 8ddbfba - Chunk saving now works (16 hours of trying... damn ReadFull vs Read)
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10:18 < pbunny> **:38:27      dav1d | Nerolat: JIT > native code (can be)
10:18 < pbunny> unless you have a CPU capable of running JIT this is not true
10:19 < AnotherOne> java prosessor
10:19 < AnotherOne> oh noes
10:21 < pbunny> ok, so
10:21 <+md_5> ahaha
10:21 < pbunny> i'm having weird minecraft protocol issue
10:21 <+md_5> pbunny u crack me up
10:21 <+md_5> it IS compiled to native code
10:21 <+md_5> this is how the jvm and v8 work
10:22 <+md_5> they compile to x86[_64] assembly
10:22 < pbunny> md_5: in such case, dav1d's comparison made no sense
10:22 < pbunny> then it was like "native code" > "native code"
10:23 < pbunny> anyway, the issue i'm currently having is the following
10:23 < pbunny> imagine player A and player B, both entered world X
10:23 <+Fador> more like "JIT compiler" > "Other compilers" ;)
10:23 < pbunny> then, player A and player B entered world Y from world X
10:23 < pbunny> in that moment, they both can attack each other
10:24 < pbunny> then, imagine player A returned to world X, and then got back to world Y
10:24 < pbunny> after that, he can't attack player B there even though he can see him
10:24 < pbunny> client just doesn't send entity action packet
10:24 < pbunny> however, if player B then kills player A, and latter respawns, he can attack player B again
10:25 < pbunny> or, if player A disconnects from server, then connects, enters world X and then enters world Y, he can attack too
10:25 < pbunny> so, the only scenario when he can't attack is when he moves to world X and then back to world Y
10:25 < pbunny> i'm lost here
10:25 < AnotherOne> oh fock
10:25 < pbunny> in such case, if he attacks player B, client sends only animation packet
10:25 < pbunny> not entity action
10:25 < pbunny> :|
10:26 < pbunny> you can see it at anonymous.lv:1337 server
10:26 < pbunny> world X is "login world"
10:26 < pbunny> type /register or /login there to be able to move to world Y ("real world")
10:26 < pbunny> try with 2 minecraft clients, you will see the bug i mentioned above
10:26 < pbunny> no idea what's wrong there
10:27 < pbunny> ah, and type /logout to get back to login world
10:27 < AnotherOne> login world is wrong:)
10:27 < pbunny> no
10:27 < pbunny> so, basically, if player does /logout , then logs in again and moves to "real world", he is unable to attack another player
10:27 < pbunny> if he reconnects and then moves to "real world" - he can
10:27 < pbunny> if he gets killed in "real world" and respawns - he can attack too
10:27 < AnotherOne> partial data clearing?
10:28 < pbunny> AnotherOne: nope
10:28 < pbunny> i inspected the code, packets seem to be sent are equal
10:28 < pbunny> it has something to do with moving between worlds, maybe i'm doing something not right
10:29 < pbunny> p.s. don't do anything other then login, logout, entering portal and attacking
10:29 < pbunny> server kicks client when receives unimplemented packet
10:29 < AnotherOne> :D
10:29 < pbunny> ah, and /register
10:30 < pbunny> and /captcha :p
10:30 < AnotherOne> omg
10:30 < AnotherOne> why?:)
10:30 < pbunny> AnotherOne: to prevent bot registration spamming
10:30 < pbunny> you must type code you will see after /register :p
10:31 < AnotherOne> hey
10:31 < AnotherOne> what is done on disconnect?
10:32 < pbunny> AnotherOne: player_leaveworld is called
10:32 < AnotherOne> and on logout?
10:32 < pbunny> and on /logout, player_leaveworld is called too, prior to player_setworld with login world passed
10:32 < AnotherOne> threads?
10:33 < pbunny> AnotherOne: connection thread is separate from world thread
10:33 < pbunny> but it's all thread-safe
10:33 < AnotherOne> thread is closed on disconnect
10:33 < pbunny> yes
10:33 < AnotherOne> and all data is wiped
10:33 < pbunny> so?
10:33 < AnotherOne> but not on logout i think
10:33 < AnotherOne> my intiution tells me to look there
10:33 < pbunny> yes, but when he connects again - he will have the same data as after /logout
10:33 < pbunny> nothing special there
10:34 < pbunny> it's something with packets sequence i think
10:34 < pbunny> maybe somebody could join and check if packets are sent correctly
10:35 < AnotherOne> i can join, but cant check:) but let's try
10:36 < AnotherOne> whoops
10:36 < AnotherOne> incompatible protocol version
10:40 < pbunny> its 1.5.x
10:40 < pbunny> which do you have?
10:40 < pbunny> protocol 60
10:41 < AnotherOne> 152
10:41 < pbunny> oh, its for 1.5.0 / 1.5.1 iirc
10:41 < AnotherOne> what is iirc?
10:41 < pbunny> "if i remember correctly"
10:41 < AnotherOne> yep, 60 is 150/151
10:42 < AnotherOne> why no 61?
10:42 < AnotherOne> are there so large changes?
10:43 < SinZ> there are almost no protocol differences
10:43 < pbunny> hold on
10:43 < SinZ> but there are some derps that needed to be fixed and requires client and server to be on par
10:43 < pbunny> AnotherOne: updated :p
10:43 < pbunny> try joining
10:43 < pbunny> SinZ: changelog link
10:43 < pbunny> ?
10:44 < SinZ> 1.5.2 is bug fixs
10:44 < pbunny> DEBUG(16:3)|parsebuffer()@parser.c:46: unknown packet type 0xFA, dropping connection
10:44 < SinZ> you haven't implemented Plugin channels?
10:44 < pbunny> not yet
10:44 < pbunny> AnotherOne: any way to remove plugins for now?
10:45 < pbunny> nm, will create dummy handler
10:45 < pbunny> hold on
10:45 < SinZ> https://mojang.atlassian.net/secure/ReleaseNote.jspa?projectId=10400&version=11700
10:47 < AnotherOne> http://i48.fastpic.ru/big/2013/0520/1e/55d9a11c62798416a23d958702e0d31e.png
10:47 < AnotherOne> OH NOES
10:48 < pbunny> AnotherOne: try now
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10:48 < pbunny> :p
10:49 < pbunny> AnotherOne: you like the captcha? :p
10:49 < AnotherOne> aaaaaah my eyeballz
10:50 < AnotherOne> whoops
10:50 < pbunny> close window not implemented :p
10:51 < AnotherOne> wow
10:52 < pbunny> did you see the bug?
10:52 < AnotherOne> so now i will log out
10:52 < dav1d> pbunny: it makes sense, JIT knows better what to compile and how to compile when it's needed
10:52 < Calinou> <pbunny> close window not implemented :p
10:52 < Calinou> hello wayland developer
10:52 < pbunny> dav1d: gcc knows better than jit
10:52 < Calinou> we have a scott moreau here!
10:52 < pbunny> Calinou: lol, be calm
10:52 < dav1d> pbunny: LOL
10:53 < pbunny> dav1d: you underestimate the power of gcc
10:53 < dav1d> naive little mind
10:53 < dav1d> pbunny: you underestimate the power of a JIT
10:53 < pbunny> iirc gcc is able even to compile java :p
10:53 < AnotherOne> oh, brain java:)
10:53 < dav1d> luajit is faster than your mighty gcc (not in all cases)
10:53 < dav1d> and you know, lua is dynamic
10:54  * pbunny is going to die from laughing now
10:54 < dav1d> pbunny: look it up
10:54 < pbunny> dav1d: php is more dynamic than lua! so it must be faster than luajit and gcc!
10:54 < dav1d> people should stfu if they have no idea how something works
10:55 < dav1d> pbunny: is php JITed?
10:55 < pbunny> dav1d: sure it is
10:55 < dav1d> and I was never talking about lua, but luajit
10:55 < dav1d> pbunny: wat?
10:55 <+Fador> https://github.com/facebook/hiphop-php php \o/
10:55 < dav1d> there are JIT implementations (I think facebook has one)
10:55 < dav1d> but apache? lol
10:56 < dav1d> Fador: yeah
10:56 < pbunny> Fador: i once managed to hiphop-php symfony 2 project :p
10:56 < pbunny> it failed :/
10:56 < pbunny> attempted *
10:56 < pbunny> so now i develop websites in C
10:56 < dav1d> maybe it didnt like your ignorance
10:56 < dav1d> (lol)
10:56 < pbunny> no, it didn't like namespaces and symfony 2 magic
10:57 < dx_> oh hey look
10:57 < dx_> it's pbunny
10:57 < dx_> yay.
10:57 < dx_> 10:47 <+ammar2> we having a java performance "discussion"? where is pbunny?
10:57 < dx_> ammar2: this is your fault
10:57 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±7] http://git.io/F1AZcg
10:57 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath df36be2 - Fixed race condition in saving
10:57 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 46bfbf6 - Async chunk saving
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10:58 < AnotherOne> java is slow
10:58 < AnotherOne> or Notch is bad
10:58 < AnotherOne> but with exapmle of minecraft...
10:58 < dx_> notch is slow
10:59 < dx_> or java is notch
10:59 < AnotherOne> lol
11:00 < dx_> 05:56 < pbunny> so now i develop websites in C
11:00 < dx_> pbunny sounds like the target userbase of the G-WAN server
11:02 < pbunny> dx_: i compile websites into http server
11:02 < pbunny> except for static content
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11:02 < dx_> you should compile static content too
11:02 < pbunny> i have my own http server code
11:02 < pbunny> dx_: why?
11:02 < dx_> it would be faster, duh
11:02 < dx_> everything is faster if you compile it
11:02 < pbunny> no.
11:04 < dav1d> dx_: :D
11:04 < dav1d> pbunny: put it in a macro?
11:04 < dav1d> (the static content)
11:05 < dx_> preload all the static content in ram, and spawn one thread to serve each file
11:05 < dav1d> yeah!
11:05 < pbunny> dav1d: why do you like macros so much?
11:06 < dx_> who doesn't like macros?
11:06 < pbunny> dx_: macros aren't efficient on modern CPUs
11:06 < pbunny> except for small stuff
11:06 < dav1d> they are the best thing I've ever seen, so easy to understand, so easy to implement, still so powerful!
11:06 < pbunny> dav1d: have you did any reading on macros vs functions?
11:06 < dav1d> "macros aren't efficent" wat? 
11:07 < pbunny> dav1d: http://www.iso-9899.info/wiki/Why_not_macros
11:07 < dav1d> macros don't even exist
11:07 < pbunny> dav1d: they do
11:07 < dav1d> but they inline!
11:07 < pbunny> dav1d: please read my link
11:08 -!- dexter0 [~dexter0@c-24-23-138-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #mcdevs
11:08 <+md_5> guys
11:08 <+md_5> if you are new to this channel
11:09 <+md_5> please note that pbunny is a brainless yet egotistic troll
11:09 < dav1d> pbunny: lol
11:09 < dav1d> macros are special CPU instructions! They have to be faster
11:09 < dx_> md_5: yeah seriously, you gotta be trolling to think that macros aren't better than any kind of function
11:09 < pbunny> md_5: i am newer to this channel than dav1d / dx_ guys
11:10 < dav1d> if they would be just copy and pasted by the compiler that would be dumb!
11:10 < dav1d> who would ever do that?
11:10 <+md_5> history | sed "s/^[0-9 ]*//" | sed "s/ *| */\n/g" | awk '{print $1}' | sort | uniq -c | sort -rn | head -n 100
11:10 <+md_5> share output guise
11:10 < dav1d> pbunny: correct, I am here for several years now?
11:10 <+md_5> uh
11:10 <+md_5> david and dx have been here much longer than you
11:10 < dav1d> well max. 2 :P
11:11 < pbunny> md_5: why do you think your brain exists? you never saw it
11:11 <+md_5>  remember
11:11 < pbunny> all you have is some perception data (visual, audial, etc) that tells you about how world works
11:11 <+md_5> guys
11:11 <+md_5> use malloc to allocate memory onto the stack
11:11 < pbunny> md_5: nonsense
11:12 <+md_5> pbunny you told me yourself
11:12 < dx_> i'd use it to allocate it onto the stack if i knew what a stack is
11:12 < pbunny> md_5: i never told that
11:12 < dav1d> md_5: http://sprunge.us/bUOd
11:12 <+md_5> brb grabboing irc logs of pbunny saying that
11:12 < dav1d> probably completly different results on my pc (which is atm 400km away)
11:12 <+md_5> freenode_#mcdevs_20130424.log:[23:00:37] <pbunny> Amaranth: no, stack allocation is malloc :)
11:13 < pbunny> md_5: please note the ":)" chars
11:13 < dav1d> trololo
11:13 < dx_> http://dpaste.com/1190568/
11:13 < dav1d> OH NOES, now I know why I leak so much memory!
11:13 < dx_> i have no idea what */\n/g" is
11:13 <+md_5> dx_ part of the command I just gave you xD
11:13 < dav1d> dx_: replaces with a \n globally
11:14 < dav1d> dx_: in the whole file
11:14 < dx_> dav1d: nah i mean, it's in my history
11:14 < dx_> md_5: lol.
11:14 <+md_5> http://paste.md-5.net/cegaxobave.avrasm
11:14 <+md_5> mine is interesting
11:15 < dav1d> btw my "dav1d" command comes from wanting to login one time too often
11:15 <+md_5> dunno why so much heroku
11:15 <+md_5>      53 toilet
11:15 <+md_5>      50 timidity
11:15 <+md_5> is me dicking around
11:15 < dx_> the problem with mine is that each bash terminal i open overwrites the previous history :/
11:15 < dav1d> zsh!
11:15 < dx_> indeed
11:15 < dav1d> (no idea if it overrides)
11:15 <+md_5> oh-my-zsh
11:15 <+md_5> m8s
11:15 < pbunny> why keep history? it's insecure
11:15 < pbunny> not mentioning sharing on irc
11:15 <+md_5>      10 ./redsn0w
11:15 <+md_5> lol
11:15 <+md_5> that went well
11:15 < dx_> loool
11:16 < dx_> how old is that?
11:16 <+md_5> dx_ not very, I was trying to jailbreak a second gen ipod touch
11:16 <+md_5> ended up having to use snowbreeze or something on windoze
11:16 <+md_5> pbunny because I am only sharing my 100 most used commands, all of which have been vetted by me to make sure there are no passwords?
11:16 <+ammar2> pbunny: look at these dweebs openly sharing their history, now you can 1337 hax0rz them
11:17 < pbunny> md_5: if police will need your logs, they won't give you time to vet them
11:17 <+md_5> 10049 lines of history
11:17 <+md_5> nice
11:17 < dx_> 503 here
11:17 < dx_> :(
11:17 <+md_5> my history is real interesting
11:17 <+md_5>  9112  toilet --irc --font letter --gay --width 800
11:17 <+md_5> all dem toilet commands
11:17 < dav1d> my history is probably 2 years old on the other pc :P
11:17 < dx_> lol
11:18 < dav1d> the time I switched to zsh
11:18 < dav1d> --gay
11:18 <+md_5> lol, first line of zsh:
11:18 <+md_5>     1  curl -L https://github.com/robbyrussell/oh-my-zsh/raw/master/tools/install.sh | sh
11:18 < dav1d> wtf is toilet?
11:18 < dx_> like figlet but with colors
11:18 < dav1d> md_5: yeah oh-my-zsh <3 found way to late out that it exists
11:18 < dx_> what does that script do?
11:18 <+md_5>   526  git filter-branch --index-filter 'git rm --cached --ignore-unmatch Rakefile' \n: 1347768159:0;git filter-branch --index-filter 'git rm -rf --cached --ignore-unmatch *.jar' --prune-empty --tag-name-filter ca
11:18 <+md_5> t -- --all
11:18 <+md_5> jeezz
11:18 <+md_5> my git fu is that good?
11:18 < dx_> >filter-branch
11:19 < dx_> sounds painful
11:19 <+md_5> uh
11:19 <+md_5> http://screencloud.net/v/EEHE
11:19 <+md_5> hm
11:19 <+md_5> think that was me telnetting into open socks proxies
11:19 <+md_5> to see if they worked
11:20 <+md_5> ffmpeg -i gangnam.mp4 -r 12 -s cif out%5d.gif
11:20 <+md_5> gifsicle --delay=1 --loop *.gif > ../anim.gif
11:20 <+md_5> lololol
11:20 < pbunny> :|
11:20 < pbunny> telnetting into open socks proxies is 1337
11:21 -!- Xaardas [~tach@p5B251C3F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #mcdevs
11:23 <+md_5> ldd redsn0w LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/home/michael/Downloads/redsn0w-linux_0.8/lib
11:23 <+md_5> yeah tried very hard to make it work dx_ 
11:23  * pbunny uses LD_LIBRARY_PATH every time to make freaking java work
11:24 <+md_5> well then you are doing it wrong
11:24 <+md_5> why use java anyway
11:24 <+md_5> its slow, bloated, insecure
11:24 < dx_> also >telnet >not netcat master race
11:24 <+md_5> and you dont own Minecraft, so no point in that
11:24 < pbunny> md_5: freaking java can't find libjawt.so in /opt/jre/lib/amd64
11:25 < pbunny> md_5: i don't use java for minecraft
11:25 <+md_5> I wish you would tell me how you develop a custom MC server without actually having a premium account
11:25 <+md_5> we dont like pirates in this channel
11:25 < pbunny> md_5: i have friends to test it
11:25 <+md_5> mmmm
11:25 < pbunny> i watch via skype share screen etc
11:26 <+md_5> totes m8
11:26 <+md_5> and when there is that one teeny tiny bug you need to fix
11:26 <+md_5> and al your friends are asleep
11:26 <+md_5> you must take forever to develop relying on friends to test
11:26 < pbunny> md_5: we synchronize our sleeps well enough
11:26 < pbunny> also there is redundance of friends
11:27 <+md_5> you would think testing yourself would be more productive
11:28 <+md_5> instead of compile, test, upload, bug to test, get feedback
11:28 <+md_5> repeat
11:28 < pbunny> md_5: i mostly understand the code by reading
11:28 < pbunny> actual testing is needed rarely, maybe once per day
11:28 <+md_5> that doesnt mean you can write flawless code without testing
11:28 < pbunny> md_5: mostly, i can
11:32 < SinZ> Then what you are doing isn't actual code
11:32 < pbunny> what
11:33 < pbunny> SinZ: i think there's a C compiler inside me
11:33 < pbunny> i can actually debug the code by reading it
11:33 < SinZ> lolno
11:34 <+md_5> typical mentality of a guy who has never been an actual programmer
11:34 < pbunny> md_5: i have 19 years of programming experience
11:34 < pbunny> ( since 7 y.o. )
11:35 < pbunny> md_5: what is the difference between programmer and "actual programmer"?
11:35 <+md_5> pbunny and how much of that has been in a professional environemy
11:35 <+md_5> environment
11:35 <+md_5> can I please see your resume?
11:35 < pbunny> md_5: what do you cann "professional environment"?
11:35 < pbunny> call *
11:35 <+md_5> oh wait, you probably dont have one
11:35 < pbunny> slavery for corporations?
11:35 < dx_> yeah i was a great programmer when i was 7 years old. i made the prettiest visual basic GUIs
11:35 <+md_5> pbunny part of an actual development team that has a proper software development cycle
11:36 < pbunny> dx_: i made command-line calculator in  C
11:36 <+md_5> resume or gtfo
11:36 < pbunny> md_5: no, that's what the System wants you to think
11:36 < pbunny> you don't need to work for corporations, to work according to rules or something else to be a programmer
11:36 < pbunny> you are programmer only by programming something
11:37 < pbunny> (c) cap
11:37 <+md_5> but you do for people to not knock you off as a retard who thinks he is the best programmer in the world
11:37 <+md_5> unbanned from ##c yet?
11:37 < sami3> 19 years of programming expirience? and yet you're at the level of early beginner
11:37 <+md_5> how come you claimed to know all there is about C
11:37 -!- sami3 is now known as zutto
11:37 < zutto> sense, this makes none
11:37 <+md_5> then you failed every question our friends in ##c gave you
11:37 < pbunny> md_5: did i mentioned i am the best programmer in the world?
11:37 <+md_5> zutto makes not cents, but dollars
11:38 < pbunny> md_5: do you have sense on humor?
11:38 < pbunny> of *
11:38 <+ammar2> are you showing off a command line calculator?
11:38 <+ammar2> calculators are really really basic
11:38 < pbunny> ammar2: it's buried into backups somewhere
11:39 <+md_5> http://paste.md-5.net/pihacinake.xml
11:39 <+md_5> entire pbunny logs
11:39  * md_5 browses
11:39 < pbunny> md_5: thanks, my statements are very useful without contexts
11:40 <+md_5> freenode_#mcdevs_20130205.log:[20:32:31] <pbunny> i know everything though
11:40 <+md_5> lol
11:40 < dx_> heh
11:40 <+md_5> freenode_#mcdevs_20130205.log:[23:54:07] <pbunny> i know exactly what i'm doing
11:40 < pbunny> md_5: i assumed it is obvious that i wasn't serious..
11:40 < pbunny> well, in the latter i was
11:40 < dav1d> clonejo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKceA691Wcg D and a Game Engine
11:40 <+md_5> freenode_#mcdevs_20130221.log:[02:08:54] <pbunny> Stormx2: i know about algorithm design.
11:40 <+md_5> made me laugh
11:41 <+md_5> freenode_#mcdevs_20130111.log:[00:30:32] <pbunny> i have 15 years of programming experience
11:41 <+md_5> freenode_#mcdevs_20130205.log:[20:31:56] <pbunny> C
11:42 <+md_5> freenode_#mcdevs_20130205.log:[20:32:26] <pbunny> a year
11:42 <+md_5> freenode_#mcdevs_20130221.log:[02:07:18] <pbunny> lahwran: i code in C for years
11:42 <+md_5> freenode_#mcdevs_20130221.log:[02:07:48] <pbunny> lahwran: 3 or 4
11:42 <+md_5> freenode_#mcdevs_20130221.log:[23:30:23] <pbunny> jast: i'm studying this for years, and picture is pretty obvious now for me
11:42  * pbunny feels like celebrity :p
11:42 <+md_5> soo
11:42 <+md_5> first 15 years
11:42 <+ammar2> md_5 should stop pasting logs and pinging people
11:42 <+md_5> then 1 year
11:42 <+md_5> then 3 or 4 years
11:42 <+md_5> then 'years'
11:42 <+md_5> then 19 years
11:43 < pbunny> md_5: iirc the last line wasn't about C
11:43 <+md_5> you are wildly inconsistant with how long you have been able to program
11:43 <+md_5> pbunny so 1 year, 3 year, or 4 years of C
11:43 <+md_5> you told me 1 year
11:43 <+md_5> and you told lahwra_n 3 or 4
11:43 < pbunny> md_5: it's a superposition of time
11:43 < pbunny> so it can be 15, 1, 3 and 4 at the same time
11:43 <+md_5> and then you said 15 years of programming experience
11:43 < pbunny> think physics
11:43 <+md_5> and today you said 19 years
11:44 < pbunny> yes, it is true, too
11:44 < pbunny> because time does not exist
11:44 < AnotherOne> lol
11:44 <+md_5> > trying to prove lie by disproving time
11:44 <+md_5> good job mate
11:44 < zutto> md_5: well, in some universes the speed of time varies
11:44 <+md_5> zutto and in others people tell the truth
11:44 < SinZ> Sometimes I wonder why SirCmpwn is banned, but pbunny isn't
11:44 < zutto> thats true too
11:44 < pbunny> md_5: if time does not exist, 15 years is the same as 1 year
11:44 < pbunny> right?
11:44 < SinZ> no
11:44 < zutto> no
11:44 < pbunny> whatever
11:44 < dav1d> no
11:45 < AnotherOne> NaN != NaN :)
11:45 <+ammar2> SinZ: well he isn't being a dick to newcomers
11:45 <+md_5> you are like the kid in my class who tried to say that a volcano eruption wodulnt have been as catastrophic as it was if the universe and thus the volcano didnt exist
11:45 < dav1d> ammar2: well he was totally right about pbunny 
11:45 < SinZ> ammar2: he is just being a pest in general, with lolzsec being in his hostname
11:46 <+ammar2> oh come on, you aren't taking hostnames seriously are you ;)
11:46 < pbunny> SinZ: i'm sorry for being a pest
11:46 < AnotherOne> as if lolzsec is bad...
11:46 <+ammar2> anyway, he isn't distrupting any on topic conversation, he's just being really stupid
11:47 < dav1d> ammar2: except the piracy part no one seems to care
11:47 < pbunny> i don't pirate game dav1d 
11:47 < dav1d> ammar2: well in #minecraft they did...
11:47 < dav1d> happy ban
11:47 < pbunny> dav1d: i'm not banned there
11:47 <+md_5> freenode_#mcdevs_20130108.log:[00:15:10] <pbunny> is client's source code obtainable?
11:47 <+md_5> freenode_#mcdevs_20130108.log:[00:15:17] <pbunny> i can make a patched client for my server
11:47 < dav1d> pbunny: come on
11:47 <+md_5> lol
11:47 < dav1d> Dagmar banned you
11:47 <+md_5> you dont even own the game m8
11:47 < dav1d> we talked about you even in privmsg
11:47 < pbunny> dav1d: yeah, he believed your lies :p
11:48 < pbunny> that's how familiarship works
11:48 < dav1d> no, that was after the ban
11:48 <+md_5>  <pbunny> will giant pigs made of pigs that get player into their month and stomach and digest there be laggy for client?
11:48 <+md_5> LOL
11:48 <+md_5> quote of the year
11:48 < dav1d> and we were laughing about your C skills
11:48 -!- umby24|offline [~umby24@cpe-66-69-92-104.satx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
11:48 < dav1d> I had a few quotes for him
11:48 < pbunny> dav1d: only you were and a couple of imaginary friends perhaps
11:48 < dav1d> I wish I had my logs 
11:49 <+md_5> ooh
11:49 <+md_5> I have some logs from ##c with pbunny 
11:49 < pbunny> :)
11:49  * pbunny grabs popcorn
11:49 <+md_5> freenode_##c_20130205.log:[21:19:34] <md_5> <pbunny> a year
11:49 <+md_5> freenode_##c_20130205.log:[21:19:34] <md_5> <pbunny> i know everything though
11:50 <+md_5> freenode_##c_20130205.log:[22:10:41] <pbunny> Zhivago: if i use only open source software, i can inspect it and make myself sure it's free of government backdoors
11:50 <+md_5> lol
11:50 <+md_5> lets read entire gnu/linux + all system utils
11:50 < pbunny> md_5: true
11:50 < pbunny> md_5: i read them
11:50 <+md_5> yup
11:50 <+md_5> all 100 million lines of code
11:50 < Zachoz> that was a funny joke
11:50 <+md_5> probably more
11:50 < pbunny> sure, no problem
11:50 < pbunny> i read line 10 lines / s
11:50 -!- umby24|offline [~umby24@cpe-66-69-92-104.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #mcdevs
11:51 < SinZ> be sure to inspect the compilers aswell
11:51 <+md_5> gnu/linux core is 54 million lines of code
11:51 <+md_5> thats just the kernel + coreutils
11:51 < pbunny> md_5: took me ~2 months
11:51 <+md_5> uh huh
11:51 < pbunny> then i read only changelogs
11:51 <+md_5>  five million four hundred thousand seconds
11:52 <+md_5> or 1500 hours
11:52 <+md_5> or 62 days
11:52 < pbunny> yes
11:52 <+md_5> of non stop code reading
11:52 <+md_5> yup
11:52 <+md_5> totally
11:52 < pbunny> well maybe 3 months
11:52 <+md_5> what about your irc client and whatever else you have
11:52 < dav1d> lol
11:52 <+md_5> I guarantee you have more than just busybox and the kernel installed
11:52 < dav1d> that is just stuipid
11:53 <+md_5> even if you read 8 hours a day
11:53 <+md_5> thats 6 months
11:53 <+md_5> you really expect me to believe that for 8 hours a day for half a year all you did was read code....
11:53 <+md_5> .you really are retarded
11:53 < pbunny> md_5: more like 20 h/day
11:53 < pbunny> md_5: well i had to do it
11:53 <+md_5> yeah
11:53 < pbunny> otherwise i couldn't be sure in my safety
11:54 < pbunny> the only other variant was coding own OS
11:54 <+md_5> so 4 hours a day to sleep, eat, drink and poop
11:54 < dav1d> lol
11:54 <+md_5> sounds like a life you have got there
11:54 < dav1d> "otherwise i couldn't be sure in my safety"
11:54 < dav1d> what if the kernel wasn't "secure"?
11:54 < pbunny> md_5: i used computer in toilet so 'pool' didn't take time
11:54 < dav1d> would you use windows?
11:54 < dav1d> lol
11:54 <+md_5> godammit where is TkTech 
11:54 < pbunny> i ate there too as there was refridgerator
11:54 <+md_5> now I want ban
11:54 <+md_5> conciously trolling
11:55 < pbunny> md_5: fun isn't forbidded here
11:55 < SinZ> trolling != fun
11:55 <+md_5> freenode_##c_20130205.log:[23:55:58] <pbunny> oop is unneeded garbage that simplifies the task for wannabees that can't model algorithms well
11:55 <+md_5> LOL
11:55 < pbunny> i think you don't know what trolling is
11:55 <+md_5> oop is garbage
11:55 <+md_5> please
11:55 < pbunny> sure it is
11:55 <+md_5> are you high
11:55 <+md_5> lets go back to lisp shall we
11:55 < pbunny> no, C is good enough
11:55 < dav1d> funny, you use pointers with functions which take the pointer as first argument
11:56 < pbunny> lisp is cute though
11:56 < dav1d> mh
11:56 < dav1d> sounds like oop, now throw in a few function pointers and you have a vtable
11:56 <+md_5> freenode_##c_20130207.log:[22:41:15] <pbunny> hi, how many threads (pthreads) can i use until they will hog performance too much?
11:56 <+md_5> freenode_##c_20130207.log:[22:41:55] <pbunny> thx, 129 seems good enough
11:56 <+md_5> > processor cannot run 1/4 of those threads
11:57 < pbunny> md_5: good one
11:57 <+md_5> 129 threads is not better performance than 16
11:57 <+md_5> freenode_##c_20130226.log:[00:27:45] <pbunny> hi, how CPU-intensive is abs() function?
11:57 < dav1d> woot
11:58 < pbunny> md_5: ps -eLf | wc -l
11:58 <+ammar2> pbunny: have you also read the code for your BIOS and any other hardware?
11:58 < dav1d> you could inline abs with macros?
11:58 < pbunny> that's the number of threads your system is currently running
11:58 <+ammar2> maybe the government hid backdoors there
11:59 <+md_5> abs is approx 6 instructions long
11:59 < pbunny> md_5: yeah, but caching abs result is only 1 instruction long
11:59 <+md_5> lolwat
11:59 < pbunny> md_5: the question was to determine whether it's worth to cache intermediate abs results inside physics loop
12:00 <+md_5> hm
12:00 < pbunny> i.e. mc_double fz=fabs(entity->zpos) or something
12:00 <+md_5> got it down to 3 instructions
12:00 < zutto> pbunny: going back to the old topic of you only using open sauce software, why are you using winblobs if you dont trust closed sauce?
12:01 < dav1d> holy fuck
12:01 <+md_5> uttin something onto the stack and taking it off again us 2 instructions
12:01 < dav1d> y u no use asm?
12:01 <+md_5> so best case you save 1 instruction, and its probably quicker to do the 3 cheap vs 2 costly, since the latter involves memory access
12:01 < pbunny> zutto: winblobs?
12:01 < zutto> microsoft winblobs
12:01 <+md_5> and the cpu can run billions of instructions a second anyway
12:01 -!- Stormx2 [~Stormx2@cpc18-sotn9-2-0-cust33.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #mcdevs
12:01 < pbunny> zutto: aah
12:01 <+ammar2> pbunny: you still haven't responded, have you read the proprietary code in your BIOS?
12:01 < zutto> the stolen code of OS/2
12:01 < zutto> you know, that thing
12:01 < pbunny> i use it only inside vm without network support
12:02 < zutto> without network support?
12:02 < pbunny> no insecureness there
12:02 <+md_5> sigh
12:02 < pbunny> zutto: sure
12:02 <+md_5> you are so clearly bullshitting right now
12:02 < dav1d> ammar2: of course, he reads opcodezzz
12:02 < zutto> yet i can access your server that is running winblobs from my interwebs
12:02 < pbunny> md_5: why?
12:02 < pbunny> zutto: nice one
12:03 < zutto> pbunny: curl -D - trolls.lv
12:04 < pbunny> aah, Server: WEBSERV.EXE 1.0.1 (MSDOS/6.22)
12:04 < zutto> thats your server, right?
12:04 < pbunny> seems legit
12:04 < pbunny> zutto: yeah, but it's MSDOS server
12:04 < pbunny> not winblobs
12:04 <+md_5> uh yeah
12:04 <+md_5> really hard to set an http header
12:04 < zutto> md_5: as if he even knows what headers are
12:05 < zutto> pbunny: yes, msdos is the result of os/2 that got turned into winblobs
12:05 < pbunny> zutto: i just ran WEBSERV.EXE and website created
12:05 <+md_5> someone petition TkTech , I feel I need promotion to op
12:05 < pbunny> md_5: no. you are too dangerous
12:05  * md_5 makes ban pbunny wiki page
12:05 < pbunny> i vote against
12:05 < SinZ> unfortunally you have no friends
12:05 <+md_5> pbunny that would be why I --own-- channels twice the size of this
12:05 < zutto> this channel could use more moderators, and md_5 seems like a proper guy for the job
12:06 <+md_5> #md_5 on another network has more users than this channel
12:06 < pbunny> md_5: good. i can set up irc server on localhost and flood it with bots too
12:06 <+md_5> http://screencloud.net/v/sY8
12:06 <+md_5> fine looking bots
12:07 < pbunny> md_5: btw, there are better name generators online
12:07 <+md_5> this kid
12:07 < pbunny> i.e. you can use _ instead of | , too
12:08 < pbunny> md_5: when will the wiki page be up?
12:08 <+md_5> http://www.wiki.vg/User:Md_5/pbunny
12:09 <+md_5> pls sign guys
12:09  * md_5 spans refresh and waits
12:09 < dav1d> md_5: you have BDoubleO in you channel :O
12:10 <+md_5> dav1d yeah
12:10 < pbunny> how do i "sign my name with ~" ?
12:10 < pbunny> i'm not very familiar with wiki
12:10 <+md_5> pbunny wiki 101: ~~~~ turns into your sig
12:10 <+ammar2> edit page, add "~~~~" under the last line
12:10 < pbunny> aah
12:10 < dav1d> md_5: isn't really him? o.O
12:10 <+md_5> dav1d it is
12:10 < SinZ> aigned
12:11 < SinZ> signed*
12:11 < dav1d> md_5: lol, why is he in your channel?
12:11 <+md_5> dav1d top bloke
12:11 < dav1d> spigot?
12:11 < SinZ> though it refused to show my name for some reason
12:11 <+md_5> lots of people are in my channel
12:11 <+md_5> he just hangs out
12:11 <+md_5> think he used bungee at one stae
12:11 <+md_5> no name
12:11 < dav1d> cool story
12:11 <+md_5> think you need to make a user page SinZ 
12:14 < SinZ> re-signed for accuracy
12:14 <+md_5> lets move wiki to git: https://github.com/md-5/TestWiki/blob/master/README.mediawiki
12:14 <+md_5> worked pretty well
12:15 < pbunny> lol, why?
12:16 < SinZ> pretty
12:16 <+ammar2> pbunny: don't worry m8, I've vouched to give you op + unrestricted access
12:17 <+md_5> shows just how bad the wiki markup is though, people have been careless over the yeras
12:17 <+md_5> we should really revive mcdevs
12:17 < SinZ> its just that mcdevs isn't needed as much anymore
12:17 < SinZ> because modding is so big
12:17 < SinZ> but in classic, noone liked mods, custom implementations were the way to go
12:17 < AnotherOne> isn't it alive?:)
12:17 <+md_5> Would still be nice to get proper documentation
12:18 <+md_5> a lot of the info and stuff is dubious and has gotten messy over the years
12:19 <+md_5> also everyone still using the kev009 url
12:19 < AnotherOne> yep
12:19 <+md_5> that really should be 302 moved permanently
12:19 < pbunny> ammar2: oh thats nice
12:20 < AnotherOne> so what is the problem with it?
12:21 <+pdelvo> md_5 I signed your page
12:21 <+md_5> no you didnt lol
12:22 <+pdelvo> Im pretty sure I did
12:22 <+ammar2> he did
12:22 <+md_5> I see ammar, sinz, pdelvo 
12:23 <+md_5> even force refreshed
12:23 <+pdelvo> I am pdelvo
12:23 <+md_5> oh
12:23 < pbunny> lol
12:23 <+ammar2> ...
12:23 <+md_5> I read you as pbunny 
12:23 <+md_5> really sorry about that
12:23 <+pdelvo> :D
12:23 <+md_5> wouldnt want to confuse you with him....
12:23 < AnotherOne> why ban him?
12:23 < AnotherOne> he is ok i think
12:23 < pbunny> AnotherOne: md5 is fun-allergic
12:24 < pbunny> md_5 it is
12:24 <+md_5> ok i think > biggest troll this channel has ever seen
12:24 < pbunny> i don't agree
12:24 <+ammar2> I don't see the point of removing him unless he starts to distrupt on topic conversation
12:25 <+ammar2> not like this channel is used for much anyway
12:25 <+md_5> ammar2 thats the problem, it needs to be used for more
12:25 <+pdelvo> You can sign against it, I think
12:25 <+ammar2> md_5: well until it is, pbunny is our main form of activity be it for good or bad
12:26 <+pdelvo> then we should let SirCmpwn come back
12:26 < pbunny> pdelvo: btw, i also fix wiki.vg/Protocol page and generally help people here
12:26 <+ammar2> pdelvo: SirCmpwn was a dick to people, pbunny doesn't do that
12:27 < SinZ> Some day, we should reinvite SirCmpwn here just to yell at pbunny for an hour or so
12:28 <+md_5> / The Minecraft and Minecraft Realms teams
12:28 <+md_5> stupid how they keep signing off as both
12:28 < SinZ> 1.5.2 was mostly backend Minecraft Realms stuff
12:28 < SinZ> just look at b.wiki.vg
12:30 <+pdelvo> Nice to see that is it updated again :)
12:35 <+pdelvo> I like the idea having the wiki on github, but then it would not be editable by everyone and someone have to pull changes in manually
12:35 < pbunny> pdelvo: i don't see any point in github because wiki itself has contribution system built in
12:36 < pbunny> i doubt somebody has need to push changes via git instead of using web form
12:36 <+pdelvo> when we have it on github we dont need a pre release page. we can have a pre release branch
12:37 <+pdelvo> and it would be much less work to merge it in when a new version comes out
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12:37 <+pdelvo> putting the changes from the pre release page in the main page can take some time
12:37 <+pdelvo> and we can put tags on it for every version 
12:39 <+pdelvo> and you can edit it on github without cloning it to your computer, too
12:39 < pbunny> well "not be editable by everyone" is a good point
12:40 < pbunny> i thought of keeping wiki while having github, so that updates on wiki will be automatically pushed to github and counterwise
12:41 <+pdelvo> but when we create a organisation with, e.g. everyone wth voice in here. this would be enough people for accepting pull requests. 
12:41 < AnotherOne> how to counter cheaters?
12:42 < pbunny> pdelvo: what if md_5 won't accept my request just because i'm pbunny ?
12:42 < pbunny> this won't be productive
12:42 -!- Trojaner [~Trojaner@88.230.150.170] has joined #mcdevs
12:42 < pbunny> AnotherOne: with server-side checking
12:42 <+pdelvo> I dont think that he would do this if you made something good. and someone else could pull it in
12:43 < AnotherOne> i play on a pirated server, and admins absolutely dont care about the fact every second retard is using nodus
12:43 < AnotherOne> i can kill two of them alone in tunnels, but in open space...
12:43 < AnotherOne> no chance
12:44 < AnotherOne> i can just find another server, but i want to pwn betches
12:44 < AnotherOne> mb there are some cheats against cheaters?
12:44 < pbunny> aah, it's hard to counter cheaters if you're not admin or server dev
12:45 < AnotherOne> i want to make bruteforce with my protocol lib, crack admin and make a fukken disaster
12:45 < dav1d> lol
12:45 < dav1d> how old are you?
12:45 < AnotherOne> 20, lol
12:45 < AnotherOne> why are you asking?
12:46 < dav1d> I would have expected such a reaction from a max. 12 year old
12:46 < pbunny> AnotherOne: bruteforce usually leads to IP ban, not admin cracking
12:46 < AnotherOne> lol:)
12:46 < AnotherOne> as i said, admins dont do anything
12:47 < pbunny> AnotherOne: then they are part of conspiracy
12:47 < AnotherOne> dav1d: ok:)
12:49 < AnotherOne> well, i'll go to realize my evil plan :D
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12:54 < AnotherOne> i have a question. http://www.wiki.vg/Protocol#Player_List_Item_.280xC9.29 is this really sent 1 packet per tick? and if it is, why?
12:55 < Calinou> because mojang
12:55 < AnotherOne> i've tried to find a rational explaination:)
12:55 < AnotherOne> mb because of potentiol packet loss?
12:55 < AnotherOne> potential*
12:56 < AnotherOne> or only because mojang?
12:56 < dav1d> tcp doesnt lose packets
12:59 < AnotherOne> i've heard vanilla server drops some packets because of having no time to process them
12:59 < AnotherOne> what about client?
13:00 < AnotherOne> oh noes
13:00 < AnotherOne> here comes architecture change... again
13:00 < AnotherOne> fuk classes
13:00 < AnotherOne> fuk my noobness
13:08 < dx_> wot
13:09 < dx_> player list item 0xC9 was introduced in beta 1.8 or something like that right?
13:10 < SinZ> sounds about right
13:10 < dx_> bukkit nuked it right away, but dinnerbro didn't do anything about it in the vanilla server?
13:10 < dx_> so weird
13:10 < pbunny> **:54:54 AnotherOne | i've heard vanilla server drops some packets because of having no time to process them
13:10 < pbunny> if server 'drops' packet, he won't be able to process following packets
13:11 < pbunny> because he doesn't know how many bytes to skip
13:11 < pbunny> unless by 'dropping' you meant read packet to the end, then ignoring it
13:12 < pbunny> AnotherOne: as of 0xC9, my server currently doesn't send it at all and clients have no problems except they doesn't see players in list
13:12 < pbunny> so you can send it when you want, i.e. on player login or when other players login/logout
13:12 <+pdelvo> I really like that github idea. What about making an organisation. putting everyone who has voice in here in it to answer pull requests. You can edit pages on github weithout cloning them, and I think everyone(?) here have an github account
13:16 <+clonejo> dav1d: I was looking forward to that talk
13:17 < dav1d> clonejo: he covers mostly C++ -> D 
13:17 < dav1d> and what the benefits are
13:17 <+clonejo> nice
13:17 < dav1d> unfortunatly his work isn't opensource
13:17 <+clonejo> :-/
13:18 < dav1d> but he wants to do the work again (maybe even better) and opensource it
13:18 < dav1d> at least he said it
13:18 < dav1d> also he made std.simd, which isn't complete, unfortunatly
13:18 < dav1d> and I think he stopped working on it a while ago, no idea if it is dead
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13:19 < dav1d> clonejo: also dynamic reloading on file changes in realtime while the engine is running
13:19 < dav1d> this is awesome, was also thinking of doing something like this
13:20 < dav1d> but not only the dlls are swapped but sources are compiled when the change in debug/release mode then automatically swapped and you can swap to a debug build when you need to debug something
13:20 < dav1d> amazing
13:21 <+clonejo> awesome :3
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13:28 < AnotherOne> d sux
13:28 < AnotherOne> 2 standard libraries wtf
13:28 <+clonejo> AnotherOne: Isn't Tango D1 only?
13:28 < AnotherOne> i dunno
13:29 < dav1d> haha
13:29 < dav1d> AnotherOne: you just went full retard
13:29 < dav1d> "d sux" "i dunno"
13:30 < dav1d> clonejo: yes it is
13:30 < AnotherOne> why so aggressive?
13:30 < dav1d> clonejo: well, there is a D2 port, which works together with phobos
13:30 <+clonejo> AnotherOne: please lets not have another flame war
13:30 < AnotherOne> ok
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13:35 < pbunny> pdelvo: wiki.vg is easier to read and navigate though
13:36 < pbunny> no unneeded github stuff
13:36 < pbunny> also, it's prettier
13:36 < AnotherOne> ++
13:37 < pbunny> i may agree that github is better at editing, but wiki is read much more than wrote
13:38 < pbunny> that's why github is good for code (which involves roughly the same reads as writes, or more writes) and is not for wiki
13:38 <+pdelvo> everything that worked in the wiki works there too. And I dont think that that (https://github.com/md-5/TestWiki/blob/master/README.mediawiki#Block_Break_Animation_0x37) is hard to read
13:40 <+clonejo> We could create a search based interface
13:42 < pbunny> pdelvo: links don't work, mostly
13:43 <+pdelvo> md_5 has only put one page on github... links will work too
13:44 < pbunny> github content will have worse SEO than wiki.vg
13:45 < pbunny> which means googling for some packet may bring users to some forums instead of our pages
13:45 < pbunny> also, the wiki will be put in control of github, whatever it decides to do with it
13:47 <+clonejo> pbunny: We can automatically create HTML pages from the repo
13:47 < pbunny> clonejo: yes, that's what i proposed. keep wiki.vg and use github to update it
13:47 <+pdelvo> seo is not much a deal because there is not other wiki page with the protocol description of the current minecraft version. because git is destributed there are many backups of the wiki. now we only have wiki.vg and maybe backups kev made
13:49 < pbunny> pdelvo: how about http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Classic_server_protocol ?
13:50 <+pdelvo> this is the classic protcol and not the current one
13:58 < pbunny> ah
14:01 < AnotherOne> i missed the line, sorry
14:01 < AnotherOne> so why github wiki?
14:01 < AnotherOne> wiki for wiki is more ok i think
14:01 < pbunny> AnotherOne: better for pages editing / management iirc
14:01 < pbunny> branches
14:03 < AnotherOne> if i make c++ library for protocol serialization/deserialization and encryption/decryption, will it be needed?
14:04 < AnotherOne> or am i reinventing a wheel?
14:05 < pbunny> encryption/decryption constsists of line additional 10 lines of code
14:05 < pbunny> oops, consists
14:05 <+clonejo> AnotherOne: http://www.wiki.vg/Library_List
14:06 < AnotherOne> i saw that link
14:06 < AnotherOne> c libs are ancient
14:06 < AnotherOne> like mammonth's sh*t
14:07 <+clonejo> AnotherOne: libmcnet is just 1.3.2
14:07 < AnotherOne> oh
14:07 < AnotherOne> i saw it too
14:07 < pbunny> pdelvo: seo problem remains, however. if we move everything to github and close wiki.vg, google will keep only github results (which have low seo rank). then, if somebody creates a web page with 2 level domain and put content from github there, it may rise higher than github result
14:07 < AnotherOne> macros everywhere:D
14:07 < pbunny> which means he will actually hijack the page
14:08 < AnotherOne> i prefer abstraction layers
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14:09 <+pdelvo> someone can do that now too. the wiki.vg page is not very search engine optimized
14:09 <+pdelvo> too
14:10 <+pdelvo> the only meta tag is the generator no descritpions, no keyword. nothing
14:10 <+clonejo> What about grouping the packets like this: https://github.com/clonejo/TestWiki/blob/master/packet-groups-proposal ?
14:11 < pbunny> pdelvo: in case 2 second-level-domains share the same content, google strongly prefers the one that was first
14:11 < pbunny> in case of second-level domain and github account, i'm not sure
14:11 <+clonejo> pbunny: wiki.vg can redirect to the new page
14:11 <+pdelvo> an extra group page maybe, but I think order by packet id is important too
14:12 < dx_> >seo
14:12 < dx_> do we actually care about this?
14:12 <+pdelvo> We can put a 301, moved permamently and google knows that it was just moved there
14:12 < AnotherOne> kev007 is easily found
14:13 < SinZ> only if you add 2 to his name
14:13 < AnotherOne> but does this wiki need optimization?
14:13 < SinZ> yep
14:14 <+clonejo> fun fact: googling "minecraft protocol" doesn't even find wiki.vg, but mc.kev009.com
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14:14 < AnotherOne> what if it will be flooded with "hi guyz i want to make mah plugin but i cant write programs do it for me i will be ur leader" people?:)
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14:15 <+pdelvo> maybe google prefers .com over .vg
14:15 < AnotherOne> and yes, 009
14:15 < pbunny> AnotherOne: in C, initialize the ciphers on handshake like this - http://dpaste.org/NMv9J/ (search for RSA_* , EVP_*). then use them like this - http://dpaste.org/KOOrw/ (search for EVP_*)
14:15 < pbunny> hope that helps
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14:17 < pbunny> clonejo: probably because it was there first
14:17 < dx_> AnotherOne: flooded with.. what? i don't see that happening now. the worst we get is people pretending to know a language and living in an alternate reality in which the concepts of "good practices" are completely different.
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14:17 < dav1d> dx_: haha
14:18 < AnotherOne> it is for now
14:18 < AnotherOne> popularity kills
14:18 < AnotherOne> look at memes
14:18 < AnotherOne> those faces everyehere
14:18 < dx_> i don't see where you expect this popularity to come from
14:19 < dx_> i mean... anyone who cares enough about the protocol can find this place easily
14:21 <+pdelvo> one more andvantage: having an offline copy of the wiki is just cloning the repo
14:21 < dx_> yeah, i actually like that part
14:22 < SinZ> but just having the backend of the wiki running off git gets the same backup, with a more wiki user interface
14:23 < dx_> i'm a bit concerned about the fact that every edit by a 'non-voiced' user will have to go through review, and that might discourage minor edits that might be useful
14:23 < AnotherOne> does anyone here have an experience with bosot::asio?
14:24 <+pdelvo> accepting it is just pressing a button
14:24 < AnotherOne> boost*
14:24 < dx_> pdelvo: still not instant
14:24 < SinZ> dx_: which is why when kev's server went down last time, we were considering switching to a git-based wiki
14:24 < dx_> is there a git backend for mediawiki? that would be perfect IMO
14:25 < SinZ> not for mediawiki, but there is for other wiki software
14:27 < dx_> also, are edit reviews *needed*? do you often need to revert edits completely?
14:28 -!- Matvei [~matvei_fr@znc.fcraft.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
14:28 <+pdelvo> no. I think 99% are not reverted, but I dont see a problem with creating a pull request "Fixed a typo". It is just pressing one button to accept it
14:29 -!- Matvei [~matvei_fr@znc.fcraft.net] has joined #mcdevs
14:30 < dx_> pdelvo: what about the process to submit the edit? i think you mentioned that cloning isn't needed, but i have no idea how this would work
14:30 -!- fortytwo [~thomas@who.let.this.bloody.dropbear.in] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
14:30 <+pdelvo> https://github.com/clonejo/TestWiki/blob/master/README.mediawiki
14:30 <+pdelvo> there is a Edit button
14:31 < dx_> whoa
14:31 <+pdelvo> this will do everything for you
14:31 < dx_> the wonders of technology
14:32 < dx_> this reminds me that i'm not really comfortable with relying too much on github, since every time it goes down for unplanned maintenance everyone seems to want to commit suicide
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14:32 < pbunny> dx_: iirc it never positioned self as reliable host for content
14:33 < dx_> it's supposed to be about a distributed version control system but nobody clones repos anymore
14:33 < pbunny> so i hold up to point of keep the wiki.vg and pull changes to it frmo github and counterwise
14:35 < dx_> well, it's going to be a bunch of static pages if github is the backend, so nothing stops them from using a different hosting service for the static version alone
14:36 <+pdelvo> And a network of people + a big company having clones of the repo is more relyable than one single person
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15:19 < AnotherOne> http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_53_0/doc/html/boost_asio/tutorial/tutdaytime1/src.html
15:19 < AnotherOne> dat boost
15:19 < AnotherOne> i like the way it connects
15:19 < AnotherOne> >_<
15:28 -!- Zachoz is now known as Zachoz|away
15:28 -!- Zachoz|away is now known as Zachoz|Away
15:49 <+clonejo> We could use http://fletcherpenney.net/multimarkdown/ for the wiki.
15:50 <+clonejo> There is also kind of a CMS, generating entire webpages from MultiMarkdown (http://fletcherpenney.net/multimarkdown/cms/)
15:53 <+pdelvo> Then we have to translate the complete wiki into markdown
15:54 <+pdelvo> I like markdown and hate the meadiawiki syntax, but this is a huge job to do
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15:57 <+pdelvo> we could convert markdown -> html -> markdown but Im not sure if the result is garbage or something we can work with
15:58 <+sadimusi> 80% of the wiki are tables and iirc there are no tables in markdown
15:59 <+pdelvo> markdown supports html in it
15:59 <+sadimusi> if 80% of our markdown is HTML we can just as well use HTML
15:59 <+sadimusi> (which I don't think is a good idea)
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16:00 <+pdelvo> the html syntax for a table is more user friendly then the mediawiki version I think
16:01 <+sadimusi> definitely
16:02 <+sadimusi> I always liked dokuwiki's syntax way more https://www.dokuwiki.org/wiki:syntax#tables
16:03 <+pdelvo> this is something which would be great to have in markdown
16:03 <+sadimusi> yes
16:04 <+sadimusi> multimarkdown apparently has tables
16:04 < dav1d> moin2 wiki?
16:05 <+sadimusi> http://fletcher.github.io/peg-multimarkdown/mmd-manual.pdf page 23
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16:10 <+clonejo> We could also use plain HTML
16:11 < pbunny> ++
16:12 <+sadimusi> sure, but we'd need some guidelines
16:12 <+sadimusi> plus a filter
16:12 <+pdelvo> html is not a bad idea. easy to write and also great for your personal offline copy because you can view it in your browser. reading mediawiki is pain compared to that
16:12 < pbunny> sadimusi: what filter?
16:12 < pbunny> sadimusi: everyone knows html now
16:12 <+sadimusi> no scripts and stuff
16:13 < pbunny> sadimusi: won't it be on github?
16:13 < pbunny> btw, script can be used to do nice stuff
16:14 < pbunny> i.e. embed some calculator / search fields
16:14 < pbunny> in some packets
16:14 < pbunny> etc
16:14 <+sadimusi> the template might contain scripts, but the individual pages definitely shouldn't
16:15 < pbunny> sadimusi: if wiki will be on github, somebody will inspect the changes anyway
16:15 <+pdelvo> And no external images or other resources
16:15 < pbunny> it's very hard to hide malicious script within 20-line change
16:15 < dav1d> reST
16:17 <+sadimusi> there still needs to be some kind of templating system, we can't have boilerplate code on every page
16:17 <+sadimusi> pbunny: nobody wants your calculator and search field ;)
16:17 <+pdelvo> My browser supports strg + f :)
16:17 <+sadimusi> and I doubt anybody will inspect all the changes
16:20 <+clonejo> sadimusi: We just need enough people to be able to accept pull requests
16:20 <+clonejo> s/to be/being/
16:20 < dav1d> are all voiced not enough?
16:21 <+sadimusi> should probably be enough
16:21 <+clonejo> yep
16:21 < dav1d> clonejo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MF5bcmvJ0o garbage collectors :D
16:23 <+clonejo> dav1d: Downloaded right away :-)
16:24 < dav1d> yeah I should have downloaded it for the train...
16:24 < dav1d> but I can't resist :D
16:24 < dav1d> (watching it)
16:25 <+clonejo> So now we need a nice static website generator
16:25 < pbunny> dav1d: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xD_ftakp2iU
16:25 < pbunny> that's how java gc works
16:25 < dav1d> reST
16:26 < dav1d> reST has table and there are static page generators
16:27 <+clonejo> dav1d: any link to reST?
16:27 <+clonejo> it's ungoogleable
16:28 < dav1d> clonejo: re structured text, sphinx syntax
16:28 < dav1d> for documentation
16:28 < dav1d> similiar to markdown but not quite the same
16:28 < dav1d> e.g. llvm or python docs are built with sphinx
16:28 < dav1d> and sphinx can generate static files from rest
16:29 < dav1d> clonejo: http://docutils.sourceforge.net/rst.html
16:29 <+clonejo> found that, too
16:29 < dav1d> well it's not only a sphinx thing more like python
16:31 <+clonejo> dav1d: We need a generator that can do templates, so we can apply DRY.
16:31 < dav1d> clonejo: that is what sphinx does
16:31 < dav1d> you have the content as reST, template etc. is handled by sphinx
16:31 < dav1d> that would be a table e.g. https://bitbucket.org/dav1d/mplayerctrl/src/b712bf2559da97274ae1845178933dd301098831/documentation/html/_sources/reference.txt?at=default#cl-671
16:32 < dav1d> there are a few table syntaxes 
16:32 <+clonejo> How is mcdevs.org generated?
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16:33 < dav1d> clonejo: that's moin? not sure
16:34 < dav1d> na
16:34 <+clonejo> it does use YUI
16:34 < dav1d> I think TkTech looked into moin2 but then decided to use something else
16:34 < dav1d> but is something written in python, it includes pygments
16:35 < dav1d> (pygments css)
16:36 < dav1d> and templates look like jinja2
16:36 < dav1d> clonejo: https://github.com/TkTech/mcdevs.org/blob/master/wiki/site/lighttpd.md
16:36 < dav1d> markdoc
16:41 <+clonejo> Personally I'd rather go for a generator that takes in plain HTML, so you don't have to learn another markup language.
16:42 < zutto> theres always twig if nothing else seems good enough
16:43 <+pdelvo> the problem with plain html is, that if we use some kind of template system then the pages are maybe not readable on their own
16:44 <+clonejo> pdelvo: We could avoid using a template system by loading repeated content through JavaScript
16:44 < dav1d> reST was designed that is readable in plain
16:44 < dav1d> clonejo: bad
16:44 < dav1d> some people have JS disabled by default
16:44 < dav1d> and I dont think a wiki should require JS to be able to see anything
16:46 <+pdelvo> @dav1d I like that table you posted. Its like I would write a table in plain txt. This is how it should be
16:46 < dav1d> pdelvo: yeha, also it supports different types of tables like tables made out of | - +
16:47 <+clonejo> dav1d: can it do multiline tables?
16:47 < dav1d> but writing these by hand is harder than using the table I linked
16:47 < dav1d> clonejo: yes
16:47 <+sadimusi> isn't mcdevs.org just flask?
16:47 < dav1d> this table is multiline
16:47 <+sadimusi> with jinja2 as the templating system
16:47 < dav1d> sadimusi: it's markdown based
16:47 <+sadimusi> hm, then I was thinking of notifi.co
16:48 <+sadimusi> mcdevs.org uses markdoc
16:49 <+sadimusi> oh, you mentioned that before
16:49 <+sadimusi> I liked the idea of writing in html, everybody here knows it
16:51 < dav1d> I don't like it
16:51 < dav1d> html sucks
16:51 < dav1d> I rather write in a markup
16:51 <+clonejo> dav1d: HTML is markup, too
16:52 < dav1d> you're way faster done, generated html is always valid and things are fixed faster than messing with html
16:52 < dav1d> clonejo: you know what I meant
16:53 <+sadimusi> for most people html is just as good as wysiwyg whereas any other syntax requires endless preview/fix cycles
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16:54 <+sadimusi> and I doubt it's any slower than other syntaxes
16:54 <+sadimusi> especially if you use emmet
16:55 < dav1d> what I like about a wiki is, I click edit fix what I wanted to fix and I am out in less than a minute
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16:55 <+clonejo> We could use templates to only pull in the repeated content, so the main part of each site is readable on its own
16:56 < dav1d> if I wanna then stress something by underlining I have to use a span tag and use css...
16:56 < dav1d> (e.g. color)
16:56 <+clonejo> <u> … </u>
16:56 < dav1d> clonejo: color
16:57 < dav1d> whereas I think you can predifine ** e.g. to be bold underline and grey
16:57 <+sadimusi> is there color anywhere in the wiki?
16:57 < dav1d> sadimusi: just an example, what about underline and bold?
16:57 < dav1d> takes longer to write the html tags than **...**
16:57 < dav1d> also it gets unreadable if you read it without a browser
16:58 <+sadimusi> u>b and tab, donw
16:58 <+sadimusi> *done
16:58 < dav1d> ?
16:58 < dav1d> I dont wanna fire up an editor for a small change
16:58 < dav1d> going to github is already a huge step imo
16:59 <+sadimusi> why go to github? just edit your local copy
16:59 < dav1d> nearly everything I fixed on wiki.vg was short actions during implementing something
16:59 < dav1d> sadimusi: I won't have a local copy
16:59 < dav1d> that's not how a wiki works for me
16:59 < dav1d> I would also only use the edit button of gituhb
16:59 <+sadimusi> well I agree, it won't really be a wiki anymore
16:59 < dav1d> others might think differently but for me this is not a wiki
17:00 <+clonejo> true
17:00 <+sadimusi> despite the awful syntax, why are we talking about a new system btw?
17:01 < dav1d> no idea
17:01 < dav1d> md5 came up with moving the wiki to github
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17:09 < eddyb> wait, what are we talking about?
17:10 < eddyb> what do you want to move the wiki to?
17:11 < pbunny> eddyb: github
17:11 < eddyb> github pages or github wiki?
17:11 < eddyb> IIRC they both can use markdown, or you can have whatever syntax you like and convert to HTML
17:12 < pbunny> eddyb: https://github.com/md-5/TestWiki/blob/master/README.mediawiki
17:12 < pbunny> i myself downvote that, except for using github as backend for current wiki
17:12 < eddyb> I didn't know it supported mediawiki
17:13 < eddyb> (I'm seeing a few hundred lines of backlog, I won't read all that just for the small chance of being able to help you guys :P)
17:13 < pbunny> eddyb: just trust me. wiki on github is a bad idea
17:14 < eddyb> what about using the github wiki feature?
17:14 < eddyb> or github pages?
17:15 < pbunny> what is "github wiki"?
17:15 < eddyb> https://github.com/md-5/TestWiki/wiki
17:15 < eddyb> it's not enabled, so it just redirects
17:16 < eddyb> https://github.com/mozilla/rust/wiki
17:16 < eddyb> https://github.com/mozilla/rust/wiki/_access
17:17 < edk> i think a separate renderer using a git repository as the data store makes more sense than trying to use github for the actual wiki
17:17 < pbunny> i like wiki.vg because it's simple to read (no github/etc stuff), pretty and usable
17:17 < pbunny> easy to edit, too
17:17 < pbunny> can be improved even more, btw
17:18 < eddyb> edk: github pages is like that
17:18 < pbunny> i.e. select the relevant part with mouse and it transforms to text input where you can edit it
17:18 < pbunny> then instantly saved as change via ajax
17:19 < edk> github pages isn't really wiki-ish afaik
17:19 < edk> ones where you edit in place are annoying, i'd rather one where you edit the whole file
17:19 < eddyb> yeah, but you can use it to host a wiki
17:19 < edk> the wiki needs some dynamic content if you can edit pages through it
17:19 < eddyb> edk: github wiki supports mediawiki, markdown, and 6 other formats I've never heard of
17:20 < edk> i'm aware
17:20 < edk> but what has that got to do with anything? :P
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17:21 < edk> the problem i see with using github's stuff is there's no way (that i know of) to make a wiki where you can get an account and start editing it through the actual wiki
17:21 < edk> you'd have to go to the corresponding github repo and get Tk to give you push access
17:21 < eddyb> https://github.com/mozilla/rust/wiki/Note-seeing-LLVM-output-from-rust press Edit Page
17:22 < eddyb> heh, that's actually written in textile, not markdown, as the rest of the wiki
17:22 < edk> oh right, if we use the wiki feature
17:22 < edk> i thought you were talking about github pages
17:22 < eddyb> yeah, nevermind the pages, I didn't think too much about the dynamic side of things
17:23 < eddyb> https://github.com/mozilla/rust/wiki/Lib-re/_edit hah, I didn't know about markdown+tables
17:24 < edk> i wonder how hard it would be to make something that renders a github repo as markdown
17:24 < edk> and ends up with something like the current wiki
17:25 < pbunny> is current wiki's content kept in db?
17:25 < edk> it's mediawiki so yeah it'll be in a RDB
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18:28 <+clonejo> Why don't we use a Github wiki, which has both web and git access
18:32 <+pdelvo> that sounds good
18:33 <+pdelvo> it does not support branches as far as i see
18:34 <+clonejo> they might be hidden in the web frontend
18:34 <+clonejo> one downside is that we won't have nice urls
18:35 <+clonejo> or we put up our own Gollum instance
18:35 <+clonejo> https://github.com/gollum/gollum
18:37 <+pdelvo> ah branching works but not in the ui
18:37 <+pdelvo> https://github.com/pdelvo/TestWiki/wiki/Testpage/Dev
18:39 <+clonejo> perfect
18:40 <+pdelvo> And tags work too: https://github.com/pdelvo/TestWiki/wiki/Testpage/Testversion
18:42 <+pdelvo> hm this does not look like it should be used. you can not see the history of a different branch then master
18:42 <+pdelvo> https://github.com/pdelvo/TestWiki/wiki/_history/Dev does not work
18:43 <+sadimusi> apparently tables work on github as well
18:43 <+clonejo> pdelvo: you can still do git log or gitk or even put it on Github as a regular repo
18:43 <+pdelvo> the compareview supports branching when you edit the url
18:44 <+pdelvo> jeah this will work, but it looks some kind of dirty :/
18:54 <+pdelvo> so what do we want. plain html, markdown, mediawiki or something else? 
18:59 <+clonejo> Does MediaWiki have an export function?
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19:01 <+pdelvo> I dont think so. you can just read the database
19:02 <+clonejo> sadly Gollum provides no auth mechanism
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19:40 < dx_> http://www.wiki.vg/Special:Export
19:45 <+clonejo> dx_: that's something
19:46 < TkTech> <kev009> full dumps of the wiki are run weekly and provided at http://wiki.vg/wiki-latest.xml.bz2 (full XML backup) and http://wiki.vg/wiki-latest-images.tar.bz2
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19:57 < TkTech> dx_: ^
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20:03 < dx_> TkTech: neat.
20:12 <+pdelvo> Beginning of the protocol page in markdown: https://github.com/pdelvo/TestWiki/wiki/Protocol Should I go on?
20:15 < dx_> why not parse the mediawiki and output markdown?
20:16 < dav1d> markdown has no tables?
20:16 < dx_> markdown has extensions for tables, and github includes them
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20:17 <+pdelvo> I really like how they look like in markdown. They look pretty without rendering them to html https://gist.github.com/pdelvo/2c65f3c1f72b1fa6ec8d
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20:23 < dx_> this parser seems cool http://pythonhosted.org/mwparserfromhell/usage.html
20:24 < dx_> also, i'm not sure if markdown is the way to go
20:25 < dx_> i like the format but for some stuff it's too simple, and i always have to rely on extensions to do interesting stuff
20:25 < dx_> if your renderer is going to be github you can't add more extensions
20:27 <+pdelvo> then you cann fallback to html
20:32 < eddyb> pdelvo: you didn't provide a preview for that markdown :P https://gist.github.com/eddyb/9f90069378b1e0ea8178
20:32 <+pdelvo> Isnt that pretty?
20:35 < eddyb> yes it is :)
20:38 <+pdelvo> https://github.com/pdelvo/TestWiki/wiki/Protocol
20:39 < TkTech> https://github.com/michael/github and/or http://prose.io/, which is how http://project-open-data.github.io/ works.
20:39 < TkTech> (See the "Help Improve This content" button at the bottom)
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20:45 < eddyb> so you can have github pages in the shape of a wiki, and that are easy to edit?
21:00 <+pdelvo> why is github prefixing anchros with wiki-?? #login-request-0x01 becomes #wiki-login-request-0x01
21:01 <+clonejo> to avoid namespace clashes?
21:02 <+pdelvo> it only does that in the wiki. not at e.g. gist https://gist.github.com/pdelvo/2c65f3c1f72b1fa6ec8d#respawn-0x09
21:03 < dx_> hm, that sucks
21:06 <+pdelvo> https://github.com/gollum/gollum/issues/587
21:07 <+pdelvo> okay the last workaround is acceptable.
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21:28 < TkTech> eddyb: prose gives you 99% client-side github editing which uses github's permissions
21:28 < TkTech> Assuming you use OAuth, if you use basic authentication it's 100% client side.
21:29 < eddyb> yeah, I've tried it, and it works with any file in any repo, even if it's not github pages specifically
21:30 < eddyb> (well, any file it can edit, I tried only markdown files)
21:32 < TkTech> Right. github.js works with anything, prose.io works with text (it's an editor toolkit)
21:32 < TkTech> You're supposed to have a little server that does two things.
21:32 < TkTech> One, it proxies OAuth authentication so you don't have your application secret token in the open.
21:33 < TkTech> Two, it runs a jekyll build server. When a page is edited, jekyll pulls it and rebuilds the site.
21:34 < TkTech> (Which you don't need if you're using github pages)
21:38 < eddyb> thanks, it could be useful for something I'm working on
21:44 < TkTech> So does anyone know how this conversation got started? Did I miss the wiki going down?
21:49 <+AndrewPH> I think it was just the urge to move it to a new platform
21:49 < TkTech> Ah
21:50 < TkTech> It's come up a few times and I've looked at a few options. I keep coming to the conclusion we'd need something custom and it dies there.
21:50 < TkTech> http://gitit.net/ was the most promising I looked at.
21:51 < Thinkofdeath> I think this was the start "<md_5> [10:14:31] lets move wiki to git: https://github.com/md-5/TestWiki/blob/master/README.mediawiki"
21:54 <+AndrewPH> TkTech: oh neat
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22:15 <+clonejo> Thinkofdeath: This was today's start. It actually started weeks (months?) ago.
22:15 <+pdelvo> months
22:15 < Thinkofdeath> clonejo: Ah ok then
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22:40 <+pdelvo> I finished a good amaount of packets already. I really like that it is perfectly readable in a text editor :) https://gist.github.com/pdelvo/2c65f3c1f72b1fa6ec8d/raw/b79b5ef008fbcf5de03ce6df3caf66220aaf64e3/gistfile1.md
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22:46 < AnotherOne> http://i46.fastpic.ru/big/2013/0521/55/d28eee59b60226ef448ea9bd16ced155.png
22:46 < AnotherOne> not so perfect:)
22:47 <+sadimusi> don't use tabs
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22:54 <+pdelvo> saw that the second i posted that in here. already fixed https://gist.github.com/pdelvo/2c65f3c1f72b1fa6ec8d/raw/9d4e810b932eb0f566008a02f32d0b0b45215e60/gistfile1.txt :D
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23:02 < AnotherOne> what is it?
23:02 < AnotherOne> is it to be translated to normal wiki-like look?
23:03 <+pdelvo> I rewrite the complete page into markdown. This is how it looks now: http://wiki.vg/wiki/index.php?title=Protocol&action=edit
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23:10 < AnotherOne> and i am about to write code generator
23:10 < AnotherOne> fukk, making packet classes is so boring
23:14 <+clonejo> AnotherOne: my server has 3 lines per packet :D
23:16 < AnotherOne> show me an example please
23:17 <+pdelvo> This reminds me to that: Every programm has at least one bug. Every program can be reduced by one code line -> Every program can be reduced into one line which  does not work :D
23:17 <+clonejo> AnotherOne: 
23:17 <+clonejo> sry: https://github.com/clonejo/mc-erl/blob/master/src/mc_erl_packets.erl
23:18 <+sadimusi> clonejo: field names would be nice
23:18 <+clonejo> who needs filed names^^
23:18 <+clonejo> *field
23:18 < AnotherOne> heh
23:18 <+sadimusi> is the new teams packet in there?
23:18 < AnotherOne> dat erlang
23:19 < AnotherOne> something like class synthesis?
23:19 <+sadimusi> I had to add a new packet class to keep it short https://github.com/sadimusi/mc3p/blob/master/mc3p/messages.py#L888
23:19 <+clonejo> sadimusi: nope, I'm still on 1.4, not upgrading before I get my current changes done
23:20 < AnotherOne> hmm wait a minute
23:20 < AnotherOne> what about serialization/deserialization?
23:20 <+pdelvo> sadimusi I like the way youve done that
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23:21 <+clonejo> sadimusi: the teams packet is horrible to parse
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23:22 <+pdelvo> In my one this is a "little" bit bigger, but the Teams packet was no problem: https://github.com/pdelvo/Pdelvo.Minecraft/blob/master/Pdelvo.Minecraft.Protocol/Packets/Teams.cs#L36
23:23 <+sadimusi> you just have a class per packet, that's flexible but tedious to write
23:24 < dav1d> sadimusi: mixin!
23:24 < dav1d> or in python metaprogramming
23:24 < AnotherOne> http://pastebin.com/GstEU9xv
23:24 <+pdelvo> This is why I have my template pakcket implementation https://github.com/pdelvo/Pdelvo.Minecraft/blob/master/Pdelvo.Minecraft.Protocol/Packets/EmptyPacket.cs :D
23:24 < dav1d> let them generate, if it's not straight forward just code the method and let the __new__ skip it
23:24 < dav1d> python is awesome
23:24 < AnotherOne> path of the axe
23:25 < dav1d> or do it at compiletime with compile time function execution and/or templates
23:25 < dav1d> in a split-second <3
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23:26 <+sadimusi> dav1d: mc3p creates classes with a write and read method from these definitions
23:26 < dav1d> sadimusi: I would go with metaclasses or __new__
23:27 < dav1d> or maybe macros :D
23:27 < dav1d> always wanted to try the new macros
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23:27 <+sadimusi> py3k?
23:27 < dav1d> (well import hooks and ast manipulation)
23:27 < dav1d> sadimusi: since 2.6
23:27 <+sadimusi> never heard of them o.O
23:27 < dav1d> but there are python macro libraries
23:28 < dav1d> karnickel is one (a rather small) and just a few days ago I saw a really impressive one (from a short look at it)
23:28 < dav1d> *it at least looked impressive
23:29 <+sadimusi> now that you mention it, I think there was one on HN
23:29 < dav1d> no idea found it while randomly browsing github
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23:30 <+sadimusi> this one was on HN: https://github.com/lihaoyi/macropy#case-classes
23:31 <+sadimusi> might be handy, but I didn't find it groundbreaking
23:33 < dav1d> a macros itself aren't really needed but manipulating the ast at import time is cool :D
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23:39 <+sadimusi> dammit, someone just reported a DoS attack from me, just because I query their mc server every 30 seconds :/
23:40 < dav1d> lol
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23:42 <+sadimusi> oh wait, their server is listed 55 times :D so make that twice per second
23:44 < TkTech> sadimusi: "reported"? Reported you *where*? The internet police?
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23:44 <+sadimusi> TkTech: linode. I'm working it out with their staff now
23:44 <+sadimusi> probably have to merge those duplicate listings...
23:45 < TkTech> Working on a new project?
23:45 <+sadimusi> no, still the same old minecraftservers.org
23:47 < TkTech> Oh god so many blinking banners
23:47 <+sadimusi> thanks again for vouching for me btw
23:47 <+sadimusi> haha
23:47 <+sadimusi> that's what you get when you allow gifs
23:48 < TkTech> Are there no sanity checks on player counts?
23:48 < TkTech> How does 2000/1 make sense ;|
23:49 <+sadimusi> the client doesn't allow 0
23:49 <+pdelvo> wow there are 6 not blinking banners on that page
23:49 <+sadimusi> so servers with "unlimited" slots just put 1
23:50 < TkTech> Ah, makes sense.
23:50 <+sadimusi> most of the big servers use some kind of server distribution thingy like bungeecord
23:51 <+sadimusi> and somehow they seem to make a ton of money
23:51 < TkTech> Probably cheap, over-provisioned servers and excessive "donation" perks.
23:52 <+sadimusi> yeah
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23:52 <+sadimusi> but even with these donations I wouldn't have thought they'd make that much
23:53 <+sadimusi> those five sponserd servers on the top pay around 5k each month just to be there...
23:55 <+clonejo> All servers together or each?
23:55 <+sadimusi> each
23:55 <+clonejo> whew
23:55 <+sadimusi> the one on the top even payed 7k
23:56 <+sadimusi> I don't think they know how auctions work
23:57 < TkTech> And here I thought I was making some decent money with the skindex :|
23:57 <+sadimusi> I thought you sold it for 70-something-k
23:58 < dav1d> wtf
23:58 <+sadimusi> well, I also built http://www.minecraftskins.info for the same guy and I don't think it's making nearly as much money as the server list (for obvious reasons)
23:59 < dav1d> 5k a month, no reason to work
23:59 < Not-003> [wiki] Edit by Pbunny to Protocol -> http://tinyurl.com/qhmgy2c
--- Day changed mar. mai 21 2013
00:01 < dav1d> well 5k*5
00:01 <+sadimusi> yeah, apparently the servers make up to 100k monthly
00:02 <+pdelvo> realpvp.net -> last news entry: Need Donations!. now I know why :D
00:04 <+sadimusi> most servers don't just ask for donations but sell ingame content for sometimes huge amounts (e.g. http://mcthewalls.com/shop)
00:04 <+sadimusi> they even unban you for $5 :)
00:05 <+pdelvo> Jeah I saw that. Unban €10.00 >.<
00:07 <+AndrewPH> Jesus, you'd think a server that gets so much would have a better design than white bootstrap and enjin-hosted.
00:07 <+sadimusi> and apparently nobody wants to play plain minecraft anymore, all you can find are hunger games, war on a bridge or even poor DotA replicas
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00:08 <+AndrewPH> I just started advertising my minigame server a bit, everybody who's been on it loves it and wishes more people would join
00:08 <+AndrewPH> do I have to add things like VIP for people to join?
00:08 <+pdelvo> but who wants to play on a server were banned people can pay to get unbanned? I cant understand that
00:08 <+AndrewPH> do people WANT to pay money?
00:09 <+sadimusi> pdelvo: I think it only works for minor violations
00:10 <+sadimusi> AndrewPH: what kind of minigames do you offer?
00:10 <+AndrewPH> sadimusi: I have currently a huge ctf that takes place in a valley, a small pvp arena with varying terrain (lava, soul sand, ivy in places, doors, the works) and a small spleef arena.
00:10 <+AndrewPH> and soon, infection :D
00:11 <+AndrewPH> (about one third of the valley: http://i.imm.io/16KIm.png )
00:12 <+sadimusi> AndrewPH: if you want more players you have to advertise and that costs money...
00:12 <+AndrewPH> Oh, we advertise
00:13 <+AndrewPH> I just started specifically advertising the minigames as its own thing
00:13 <+AndrewPH> because it IS on a separate server in the network
00:13 <+sadimusi> you could of course just buy cheap votes on http://www.swiftvoter.com :D
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00:30 < AnotherOne> but who wants to play on a server were banned people can pay to get unbanned? I cant understand that
00:30 < AnotherOne> oh damn man yo're so right
00:30 < AnotherOne> you're
00:30 < AnotherOne> i've seen a sign "unban: 50 rub (for cheaters)"
00:31 < AnotherOne> facepalmd alot
00:31 < AnotherOne> greedy schoolboys
00:32 < AnotherOne> who run laggy pirated servers that deserve only to be ruined
00:34 <+AndrewPH> In my 3.4 years of hosting minecraft servers, I have never once required donations for anything. I also gave no mercy to griefers...
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00:37 < AnotherOne> :)
00:37 < AnotherOne> AndrewPH: does an average server have any griefer trackers?
00:38 < AnotherOne> for example if i stole someone's nice house of duped diamond blocks with pistons, can admin see it?
00:38 <+AndrewPH> logblock at least usually
00:38 <+AndrewPH> (my server is a bit different in that there's no way you can grief sans getting in the way in ctf)
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00:41 < AnotherOne> what is sans?
00:43 < eddyb> it means "without"
00:43 < eddyb> or "except"
00:43 < AnotherOne> thank you
00:46 <+AndrewPH> AnotherOne: sorry about the confusion
00:47 < AnotherOne> np:) it's my bad knowledge
00:49 < AnotherOne> "sans serif" became clear:)
00:49 <+AndrewPH> yay :D
00:52 < AnotherOne> you may call me a pervert, but i like to write my code generator
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01:02 < TkTech> sadimusi: 75. And I did, but a one-time payment is a big difference from $xx,xxx/month.
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01:42 < AnotherOne> i did it!
02:15 < AnotherOne> this great feeling
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02:28 <+AndrewPH> AnotherOne: what did you do?
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03:00 < AnotherOne> i made a code generator for my classes
03:00 < AnotherOne> so i dont need to do most of routine work
03:00 <+AndrewPH> neato :D
03:03 < AnotherOne> but its code is a little dirty:)
03:04 < AnotherOne> but who cares if it is one-time
03:05 <+sadimusi> wouldn't it be cooler to do it at runtime?
03:05 <+sadimusi> or in your case maybe when compiling
03:05 <+sadimusi> AnotherOne: ^
03:08  * TkTech wonders if there's a "Horrors of C++ templating" blog.
03:08 < AnotherOne> :D
03:08 < AnotherOne> yep
03:09 < AnotherOne> i must try templates
03:09 < AnotherOne> but later
03:09 < AnotherOne> it is 4 am and i must go to sleep
03:09 < AnotherOne> good luck to all of you
03:13 < TkTech> sadimusi: Feel like critiquing a new page design?
03:13 <+sadimusi> sure
03:13 < TkTech> sadimusi: http://w.tkte.ch/, just tossed it up there
03:15 <+AndrewPH> TkTech: I feel like it's too far to the left (1440x900 19in)
03:16 < TkTech> AndrewPH: It looks even worse centred  on a big screen. Vast empty oceans on both sides.
03:16 <+sadimusi> yeah, it feels like 3/4 of my monitor are unused (1920x180 40")
03:17 <+sadimusi> +0
03:17 < SinZ> if you centered it, and had the gray on both sides
03:17 <+AndrewPH> literally almost exactly half of my screen is just white
03:18 <+sadimusi> the commits also look a bit unstructured, maybe a small margin below the messages would help
03:18 <+sadimusi> And "Copyright ©" seems redundant
03:18 < TkTech> sadimusi: Can you clarify? Don't the chardets make it obvious?
03:19 < SinZ> I like the commit section
03:19 <+sadimusi> it's obvious once you look closer, but on the first glance it looks just like a giant wall of text
03:19 < TkTech> (Er, chevron)
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03:21 <+sadimusi> I'd also align the multi-line commit messages http://cl.ly/P56e
03:21 < SinZ> ^
03:23 < SinZ> maybe shade the background of the text slightly
03:24 < TkTech> Ah, hm.
03:24 < TkTech> The arrow isn't actually a bullet point.
03:24 < TkTech> Ahhh, there's a class for that™.
03:41 < TkTech> Not sure what I can do about the page being empty :|
03:47 <+sadimusi> TkTech: maybe you can think of something to put there
03:47 < TkTech> What, like some titanic background image/
03:47 < TkTech> *?
03:48 <+sadimusi> when I first saw your page, this image immediately came to my mind :) http://cdn.3news.co.nz/3news/AM/2012/4/12/250131/whitespace.jpg
03:48 <+sadimusi> how about a huge picture of you :P
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03:48 < TkTech> I don't want to be liable for all the broken screens that would entail.
03:55 <+sadimusi> how about just centering everything?
03:55 <+sadimusi> something like this http://cl.ly/P68t
03:57 < SinZ> and dont have an arrow for the multi-line commit
03:57 < SinZ> owait, nvm
03:59 <+sadimusi> and as I mentioned before, I'd prefer some space after the commit messages http://cl.ly/P5oB
04:02 < TkTech> That's kinda what it looked like originally
04:04 < TkTech> sadimusi: http://cl.ly/image/1Q2O1g3N0v1X
04:04 <+sadimusi> I'm a horrible designer, so you probably shouldn't listen to me :)
04:05 < SinZ> TkTech: that looks nice <3
04:06 <+sadimusi> that still looks a bit cramped, but I prefer it over the current version
04:07 <+sadimusi> even though these lines at the edge of the page do look nice
04:10 <+sadimusi> btw, why is it w.tkte.ch and not just tkte.ch?
04:10 <+sadimusi> I know it was a wiki once, but I'd drop the w
04:12 < TkTech> It serves some legacy links
04:12 <+sadimusi> 301 to it
04:19 <+sadimusi> TkTech: googling your name is no fun :/
04:19 < TkTech> I am an *amazing* NHL player.
04:19 < TkTech> The autocomplete for my name is usually along the lines of, "Is tyler kennedy single yet"
04:20 < TkTech> OUCH, first result for "is tyler kennedy …", "is tyler kennedy retarded"
04:20 <+sadimusi> he looks a bit like he is P:
04:21 <+sadimusi> at least on the picture google uses http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/headshots/nhl/players/full/3339.png
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04:29 <+sadimusi> at least I can't find anything relevant about me either
04:31 <+SpaceManiac> I guess I can consider myself lucky that I'm the most relevant person with my name
04:31 <+sadimusi> dammit, I just found a video of me :/
04:32 < TkTech> sadimusi: (You've always been able to just whois any of my domains, I do bi-weekly meetups and coffee all the time so there's no point trying to hide my details)
04:32 < TkTech> sadimusi: I must find this video
04:38 <+AndrewPH> Tyler Kennedy: Developer, NHL Player. What can't he do?
04:38 <+AndrewPH> I've heard that he's even traveled through time, once
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05:51 <+sadimusi> wow, already 6am? I guess there's no point in going to sleep now...
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07:03 < AnotherOne> hello
07:04 <+sadimusi> morning
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08:25 < Not-003> [bravo] MostAwesomeDude pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/pkc-vw
08:25 < Not-003> [bravo] Corbin Simpson 2d4f4b4 - terrain/trees: A couple cleanups. Tired of this module now.
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09:21 < TkTech> sadimusi: Yeah, I'm giving up on sleep.
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10:52 < pbunny> Grum: any possibility of minecraft client to handle world change between worlds with same dimension correctly?
10:54  * md_5 head desk
10:54 < pbunny> md_5: hi, btw
10:54 <+md_5> pbunny use your brain please
10:54 <+md_5> think about how we may go about solving this problem
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10:56 <+md_5> pbunny got it yet?
10:56 <+pdelvo> Here is a tip: https://github.com/pdelvo/Pdelvo.Minecraft.Proxy/blob/master/Pdelvo.Minecraft.Proxy/ServerChangePlugin/ServerChangePlugin.cs#L125
10:56 < pbunny> md_5: easy. just add "is_another_world" boolean to http://www.wiki.vg/Protocol#Respawn_.280x09.29
10:56  * md_5 cries
10:57 < pbunny> md_5: then, if its true, server will be able to teleport player to another world with same dimension
10:57 <+md_5> you are killing me
10:57 < pbunny> i.e. from overworld to another overworld
10:57 < SinZ> it can be done, but it isn't needed for vannila
10:57 < pbunny> now it doesn't work right
10:57 <+md_5> hint: bungeecord sends users to the same dimension
10:57 < pbunny> SinZ: true
10:57 <+md_5> hint:
10:57 <+md_5>                 user.sendPacket( Packet9Respawn.DIM1_SWITCH );
10:57 <+md_5>                 user.sendPacket( Packet9Respawn.DIM2_SWITCH );
10:57 <+pdelvo> send them a respawn to an other dimension and directly after that send them to your dimension
10:58 < pbunny> pdelvo: right
10:58 <+md_5> what pdelvo said
10:58 <+md_5>     public static final Packet9Respawn DIM1_SWITCH = new Packet9Respawn( (byte) 1, (byte) 0, (byte) 0, (short) 256, "DEFAULT" );
10:58 <+md_5>     public static final Packet9Respawn DIM2_SWITCH = new Packet9Respawn( (byte) -1, (byte) 0, (byte) 0, (short) 256, "DEFAULT" );
10:58 < pbunny> i know about that solution, but that's UGLY
10:58 < SinZ> then do it
10:58 <+md_5> ... this is Minecraft
10:58 <+md_5> dont bloody ping mojangsta;s because you are too lazy to do your own solution
10:58 <+md_5> its ONE line of code
10:59 <+md_5> player.sendPacket(otherDimension)
10:59 <+md_5> player.sendPacket(actualDImensionSendPacketYouAlreadyHave)
10:59 < SinZ> Minecraft doesn't need to have it neat, as it doesn't effect vannila, except use slightly more bandwidth every time someone dies
10:59 <+md_5> SinZ dammit, 30 bytes
10:59 <+md_5> you are killing me
10:59 < SinZ> md_5: I mean if Mojang were to add the boolean
10:59 <+md_5> oh they would never
10:59 < pbunny> md_5: boolean is 1 byte
10:59 <+md_5> that would be f8**
10:59 < pbunny> not 30
11:00 <+md_5> pbunny I meant in total packet sie
11:00 < pbunny> i know what you meant
11:00 <+md_5> thought he was referring to us sending a second packet
11:00 < SinZ> if they did, it'll be more bandwidth to the majority that wont benefit from it
11:00 < SinZ> so the minority sending a second packet is fine
11:00 < pbunny> SinZ: if they were so concerned about bandwidth, vanilla client wouldn't send like 10 0x0D packets every second
11:01 < SinZ> should really ask dinnerbro why he hasn't nerfed that yet
11:01 <+pdelvo> I dont see your problem with sending **2** packets
11:01 < SinZ> he did it instantly in bukkit
11:01 < pbunny> pdelvo: i don't have problem with it, be calm :p
11:01 < SinZ> then again, bukkit over-nerfed it
11:01 < pbunny> i just don't like ugly hack way of solutions
11:02 < jast> says someone who uses cpp macros til kingdom come
11:02 < pbunny> jast: where?
11:03 < jast> ISTR that you defined a crapload of functions as macros to avoid using something sensible (like the inline keyword)
11:03 < pbunny> ah, that was old code
11:04 < jast> what happened? enlightenment? :P
11:05 < pbunny> if you like
11:06 < Not-003> [wiki] Edit by Md 5 to Protocol -> http://tinyurl.com/mnm2sfg
11:06 < jast> in the end I don't really care... but it's a nice word
11:08 < pbunny> md_5: i didn't touch the table, it was already there
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11:11 <+pdelvo> @md_5 That is better then before, but not as good as that: https://gist.github.com/pdelvo/2c65f3c1f72b1fa6ec8d/raw/9d4e810b932eb0f566008a02f32d0b0b45215e60/gistfile1.txt
11:12 < SinZ> md_5: is respawn server->client or two way?
11:12 <+md_5> nowadays server->client
11:12 < SinZ> it says server->client, yet in difficulty, it references some client->server
11:13 <+pdelvo> that changed, so maybe we have not changed it there too
11:13 < SinZ> why does difficulty need to be sent, anyway?
11:13 < pbunny> SinZ: i never got respawn from client
11:15 <+pdelvo> Client Statuses (0xCD) is what is sent now Client -> Server
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11:18 < SinZ> Maybe change the text in the difficulty table?
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11:18 <+md_5> welp
11:18 <+md_5> hope this goes well
11:19 <+md_5> (cur | prev) 21:15, 20 May 2013‎ Md 5 (Talk | contribs)‎ . . (69,121 bytes) (-50,002)‎ . . (Massive table cleanup) (undo)
11:19 <+pdelvo> looks okay
11:19 < Not-003> [wiki] Edit by Md 5 to Protocol -> http://tinyurl.com/pzh3e4f
11:20  * md_5 is happy
11:29 < SinZ> that quite possibly could be the largest edit ever done
11:29 < SinZ> (to the protocol page)
11:32 <+md_5> you do realise that edit got rid of nearly half the page?
11:32 <+md_5> 120kb to 68kb
11:33 < shoghicp> woo
11:33 < Not-003> [wiki] Edit by Md 5 to Protocol -> http://tinyurl.com/kaxgbdq
11:33 <+md_5> I wanna know why we have those useless anchor tags'
11:34 <+md_5> headers are anchors..
11:34 <+md_5> for http://www.wiki.vg/Protocol#0x3D I guess
11:34 <+md_5> so you can direct link
11:37 <+md_5> pbunny its even on the wiki:'
11:37 <+md_5>      Please avoid changing player's dimension to same dimension as he was in (i.e. from Nether to Nether, from Overworld to Overworld). While at first glance everything seems to work, weird bugs can occur, i.e. such player will be unable to attack other players in new world (minecraft client just won't send "Use Entity (0x07)" packet on hitting, only "Animation (0x12)" packet), even though he can see them and they can attack him (fixes after his death and 
11:37 <+md_5> respawn though). 
11:37 <+md_5> If you actually have multiple worlds of same dimension on server and need to teleport player between them, use intermediate world (with different dimension) between them. 
11:38 <+md_5> >If you actually have multiple worlds of same dimension on server and need to teleport player between them, use intermediate world (with different dimension) between them. 
11:38 < Not-003> [wiki] Edit by Md 5 to Protocol -> http://tinyurl.com/mw253s4
11:40 < Not-003> [wiki] Edit by Md 5 to Protocol -> http://tinyurl.com/mrcoswf
11:43 < pbunny> **:33:29        +md_5 | pbunny its even on the wiki:
11:43 < pbunny> lol, i wrote it
11:45 < Not-003> [wiki] Edit by Md 5 to Protocol -> http://tinyurl.com/ouwe6xm
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11:50 < Not-003> [wiki] Edit by Md 5 to Pre-release protocol -> http://tinyurl.com/ldsj933
11:51 <+pdelvo> md_5 have you read the diskussion after you left yesterday?
11:51 <+md_5> yes
11:51 <+pdelvo> what do you think?
11:52 <+md_5> the problem with it is they all look very minimal in terms of design
11:52 <+md_5> which as a user doesnt give me a good feel about the info
11:53 <+md_5> the wiki also has the advantage of being *really* open
11:54 < Not-003> [wiki] Edit by Md 5 to Pre-release protocol -> http://tinyurl.com/luz2dwc
11:54 < SinZ> which is why git backend would be nice
11:54 <+md_5> wat
11:54 < SinZ> but that involves switching wiki engine
11:55 < Not-003> [wiki] Edit by Md 5 to Pre-release protocol -> http://tinyurl.com/qgtruez
11:55 < SinZ> uhh, shouldn't the pre-release protocol be on 13w19b
11:56 < SinZ> 19a*
11:56 <+md_5> SinZ dont think there have been proto changes
11:56 <+md_5> have to check with sir on that
11:56  * SinZ wishs b.wiki.vg would auto-do snapshots again
11:57 <+sadimusi> it only did that for a very brief period of time
11:57 <+sadimusi> most of the time it was just me updating it manually
11:57 <+md_5> anyone got a link to the new archive thing?
11:58 <+md_5> have they started uploading old jars
11:58 <+md_5> (to the mojang s3)
11:58 < SinZ> http://s3.amazonaws.com/Minecraft.Download/versions/versions.json
11:58 <+pdelvo> Apropos. Should we also create a page about the new launcher and how it stores and download data?
11:58 < SinZ> http://s3.amazonaws.com/Minecraft.Download/versions/13w19a/13w19a.jar
11:58 <+md_5> SinZ lovely
11:59 <+md_5> also hate the new launcher
11:59 < SinZ> I like it
12:00 < SinZ> no more java hackery used to launch with icon
12:00 < pbunny> SinZ: aww, whats that?
12:00 < pbunny> minecraft client
12:00 < pbunny> ?
12:01 < SinZ> the launcher doesn't create an applet and wraps the client into it anymore, it just launchs minecraft <3
12:02 <+md_5> least they could do is open source it
12:02 <+sadimusi> wow that thing is ugly
12:04 < pbunny> SinZ: so how do i run it?
12:10 < SinZ> pbunny: by owning minecraft?
12:10 <+md_5> oh snap
12:10 < SinZ> Nothing in the launcher really needs to be closed source yet too
12:11 < pbunny> SinZ: aah, nm
12:11 < pbunny> i thought you said they opensourced minecraft
12:11 < SinZ> well, does show how to read lastlogin files, but people knew that anyway
12:12 <+pdelvo> the password is no longer stored there with the new launcher
12:13 < Stormx2> someone let pbunny's ban expire I see
12:13 < SinZ> launcher still reads it if its present
12:13 < SinZ> but doesn't save
12:13 < SinZ> Stormx2: inorite
12:13 <+pdelvo> We even have the lastlogin file documented: http://wiki.vg/Lastlogin
12:15 < pbunny> Stormx2: was i banned here at all?
12:15 < SinZ> you were banned from freenode, that has to count
12:15 < Stormx2> pbunny, I haven't been here in a while, iirc
12:15 < Stormx2> uhg
12:15 < pbunny> SinZ: ah, that
12:15 < Stormx2> I haven't been here in a while, but iirc you were banned from this channel a few months ago
12:15 < pbunny> Stormx2: no, only from #minecraft iirc
12:17 < Stormx2> Ah fair.
12:18 <+md_5> why were you banned from freenode btw
12:19 < dav1d> ignorance I guess
12:20 <+md_5> first world problems: too many irc channels
12:20 < pbunny> md_5: staff problems
12:20 <+md_5> more like pbunny problems
12:20 <+md_5> > harassing staff prolly
12:20 < pbunny> md_5: no sane person would harass staff
12:21 < Stormx2> Ah you know what it is? SirCmpwn was banned only about 3 days after you arrived. I think I must have conflated you two.
12:21 < pbunny> Stormx2: correct
12:22 <+md_5> freenode_#freenode_20130131.log:[20:10:08] <pbunny> does freenode obey freedom of speech law?
12:22 <+md_5> lol
12:22 < Stormx2> omfg
12:22 <+md_5> freenode_#freenode_20121222.log:[03:01:55] <pbunny> i would like to recommend a rules update.
12:22 <+md_5> freenode_#freenode_20121222.log:[03:02:12] <pbunny> freenode rules.
12:22 <+md_5> freenode_#freenode_20121222.log:[03:02:27] <pbunny> yeah
12:22 <+md_5> freenode_#freenode_20121222.log:[03:02:33] <pbunny> i would like drunken people be forbidden here
12:22 <+md_5> actually laughing
12:22 < Stormx2> Freenode is directly answerable to the US constitution.
12:22 < pbunny> is it #defocus ?
12:22 < pbunny> was *
12:23 <+md_5> freenode_#freenode_20121219.log:[21:48:17] <pbunny> an op of a channel called me idiot and banned for innocent question
12:23  * md_5 wishes he was that op
12:23 < pbunny> i remember the time when 2 mad drunkards flooded channel with talks about bars / beer comparison etc
12:23 < dav1d> and?
12:23 < dav1d> these are some serious converstations
12:23 < pbunny> dav1d: and they distracted interesting conversation we had
12:23 < Stormx2> /part
12:23 < Stormx2> ^ solution
12:23 <+md_5> <pbunny> i'm not saying non-IT people should be klined or something
12:24 < pbunny> md_5: btw, there were several pbunny that weren't me when i was offline
12:24 < pbunny> you should check hostname, too
12:24 < pbunny> and ident
12:24 <+md_5> pbunny really?
12:24 < dav1d> pbunny: what? /ignore
12:24 < pbunny> md_5: yeah
12:24 <+md_5> all with the lulzsec host
12:24 < pbunny> md_5: ident?
12:24 <+md_5> *** Joins: pbunny (~pbunny@stdout.lulzsec.com)
12:24 < dav1d> lol
12:24 < pbunny> md_5: there was not ident, our server didn't run ident service at that time
12:24 < pbunny> so it could be me, or not me
12:24 <+md_5> ident doesnt change that
12:25 <+md_5> if they have access to your server they can presumably modify the ident reply
12:25 < Stormx2> some other classics
12:25 < Stormx2> Mar 07 12:15:54 <Grum>  pbunny: because each player has to have at least 19*16x19*16x256 blocks loaded around itself
12:25 < Stormx2> Mar 07 12:15:58 <pbunny>        LOL
12:25 < Stormx2> Mar 07 12:16:05 <pbunny>        now that's a java thinking
12:25 < Stormx2> Mar 07 12:16:10 <Grum>  pbunny: no its not
12:25 < pbunny> md_5: it does. we have like 1000 users on this server
12:25 < pbunny> any one of them may connect using stdout.lulzsec.host here
12:25 <+md_5> yes
12:25 < pbunny> now we run idents to distinguish between them
12:25 <+md_5> we, 1000 and irc
12:25 <+md_5> big exaggeration mate\
12:25 < pbunny> ?
12:25 < pbunny> md_5: they are mostly non-irc people
12:25 < pbunny> but chance remains
12:26 <+md_5> stop using that pathetic excuse to defend your actions
12:26 < pbunny> md_5: i.e. #gentoo-chat-ru was trolled the hell out by somebody from our server
12:26 <+md_5> also I'd love to see 1000 people on one server
12:26 <+md_5> not even the wikimedia toolserver has that many accounts
12:26 < pbunny> that's what cause misfired klines
12:27 < pbunny> md_5: what's so difficult about having 1000 people on server?
12:27 < pbunny> ( i don't mean 1000 online at same time )
12:27 < pbunny> it's an account count
12:27 <+md_5> where are you going to get 1000 people that want to be on a shitty little server
12:27 < pbunny> :p
12:27 < pbunny> they have reasons
12:28 <+md_5>  <pbunny> operators are not aware of the threat                                         (threat being drunk people)
12:28 < pbunny> md_5: i agree
12:28 < pbunny> md_5: nobody wants drunk people walking on streets and pestering citizens
12:28 < pbunny> why is irc different
12:28 < SinZ> harder to detect on IRC
12:29 <+md_5> speaking of which, why does stdout.lulzsec.com not have a PTR
12:29 < pbunny> SinZ: if it's not detectable - i'm fine with that, situation of #defocus was quite detectable though
12:29 < pbunny> md_5: to make people ask about it
12:29 <+md_5> must have changed dns after logging onto irc
12:29 < dav1d> lol
12:30 < dav1d> drunk are awesome
12:30 < pbunny> dav1d: some drunk morons tried to rape my wife once
12:31 < dav1d> lol
12:31 < pbunny> others smashes my car with something heavy
12:31 < pbunny> left some empty beer bottles 
12:31 <+md_5> http://lulzsec.com/
12:31 < pbunny> drunk man == mad man
12:31 < dav1d> lol
12:32 < Stormx2> RFC1337: Sobriety Detection over IRC
12:32 < dav1d> md_5: ?
12:32 < dav1d> md_5: the domain is on afraid.org, I think
12:32 <+md_5> yeah
12:32 < pbunny> Stormx2: http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1337
12:33 -!- Calinou [~Calinou@unaffiliated/calinou] has quit [Quit: Excess Flood]
12:33 < Stormx2> pbunny, I figured 1337 was already taken - it was a joke ;)
12:33 < Stormx2> Hows your C server coming?
12:35 < pbunny> Stormx2: anonymous.lv:1337
12:35 < pbunny> come and see
12:35 < pbunny> its the second version, compatible with multi-threaded worlds (not enabled now due to mutex issues which i have no time to resolve now)
12:36 < pbunny> registration, login, physics, movements, surrounding-entity-funcs (i.e. dumping, animation showing, ...), basic pvp
12:36 < pbunny> digging, item dropping
12:54 < Stormx2> pbunny, code?
12:54 -!- TomyLobo [~TomyLobo@91-64-168-142-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #mcdevs
12:57 < pbunny> Stormx2: http://dpaste.org/u0IDo/
12:57 < pbunny> its worlds/entrance.c , the code for 'login world' that players get at after connect
12:59 < pbunny> http://dpaste.org/iksH9/ - captcha.h , http://dpaste.org/V5Ck1/ - captcha.c
13:00 < pbunny> captcha made of blocks is shown after /register to prevent registration spamming
13:00 < Stormx2> Why don't you put the source on github or another vcs site?
13:00 < pbunny> Stormx2: don't want it to be stolen at some point of time and servers rised from it and took all the pride :)
13:00 < dav1d> lol
13:00 < pbunny> i will release it after my own server will get some attention
13:01 < Stormx2> when will that be?
13:01 < pbunny> maybe 1-2 months
13:01 < pbunny> ah, no. that's when it will be up and stable
13:01 < pbunny> to get attention, some more months will be needed probably
13:02 < Stormx2> You've been working on this for a few months now and I see you've still got world generation code in the same file as packet handlers
13:02 < pbunny> Stormx2: no.
13:02 < pbunny> packet handlers are in handlers.c
13:02 < pbunny> these handlers are world-specific
13:02 < pbunny> they are processed only when player is in this particular world
13:03 < Stormx2> http://dpaste.org/u0IDo/#L426
13:03 < Stormx2> What's that?
13:03 -!- Calinou [~Calinou@unaffiliated/calinou] has joined #mcdevs
13:03 < pbunny> Stormx2: reads next 4 bytes from received data, converts them to int and incs the received data pointer by 4
13:04 < Stormx2> <Stormx2> You've been working on this for a few months now and I see you've still got world generation code in the same file as packet handlers
13:04 < pbunny> Stormx2: i don't see problems in putting several world-specific packet handlers in world's source file
13:04 <+pdelvo> There it is: http://wiki.vg/Protocol#Player_Digging_.280x0E.29
13:04 < pbunny> if there were 50 handlers, i would separate it
13:04 < Stormx2> well
13:05 < pbunny> Stormx2: also that's second version of server, first one already has everything but mobs / metaentities implemented
13:05 < Stormx2> The usually approach is to have a module with a well-defined interface that handles all network-specific stuff
13:05 < Stormx2> Stuff that uses it doesn't need to know exactly how co-ordinates or w/e are stored on-the-wire
13:05 < pbunny> Stormx2: its interface is well defined
13:06 < Stormx2> It's not. You're mixing networking code with application logic.
13:06 < pbunny> also its better optimised that way
13:06 < pbunny> Stormx2: read_int() read_byte() ... are pretty obvious and easy to use
13:06 <+pdelvo> premature optimization is the root of all evil
13:06 < pbunny> packetok() tells handlers handler that packet is processed and passes processed bytes number to it
13:06 < Stormx2> pbunny, and they should be used /within an object that deals with those types/
13:06 < pbunny> so it can process next packet
13:06 < pbunny> within object?
13:07 < Stormx2> Yes. You have a "SocketListener" class/object/etc that fires a callback when it receives a packet.
13:07 < Stormx2> The callback doesn't need to know the format, ordering, or data-types of the packet
13:07 < dav1d> fibres!
13:07 < Stormx2> those are handled in a single place (with a clean interface)
13:07 < dav1d> and libev
13:07 < pbunny> Stormx2: and how to pass data read from packet?
13:07 < dav1d> but I think he prefers threads
13:07 < pbunny> build up arrays of arguments?
13:08 <+pdelvo> the callback gives you an reference to the object fired it which holds that data
13:08 < pbunny> Stormx2: there is no optimized way of variable-arguments-count callbacks in C afaik
13:08 < pbunny> pdelvo: and how to hold it?
13:08 < pbunny> in array?
13:08 < pbunny> why?
13:08 <+pdelvo> fields
13:09 < pbunny> pdelvo: create a struct with field for every packet's possible field?
13:09 < pbunny> pdelvo: i don't see how it will be any more useful
13:09 < Stormx2> uhg
13:09 < pbunny> pdelvo: or maybe create a struct for every possible packet?
13:09 <+pdelvo> except for making your code mentainable
13:09 < pbunny> pdelvo: its maintainable
13:10 <+md_5> pbunny quick question
13:10 < pbunny> handler reads packet continuously and parses it
13:10 <+md_5> what is the point of making an MC server if you cannot play on it?
13:10 < Stormx2> or if no-one will use it..
13:10 < pbunny> md_5: glory, money, mazeratti, hot chicks, villa
13:10 < Stormx2> What's the point of making a 3rd party server at all?
13:10 <+md_5> pbunny but you cant even join it
13:10 < pbunny> Stormx2: it will be better than vanilla one
13:10 <+md_5> since you dont own Minecraft
13:10 < pbunny> in many aspects
13:10 < pbunny> md_5: i don't need to
13:10 < dav1d> md_5: lol
13:11 < pbunny> i can admin it by console
13:11 < Stormx2> pbunny, and worse in many aspects that are more critical than CPU/memory usage
13:11 <+pdelvo> and how do you test it if you cant join it?
13:11 < Stormx2> e.g. no plugins
13:11 <+md_5> yes
13:11 <+md_5> make a public server
13:11 <+md_5> where the owner NEVER comes online
13:11 <+md_5> and has never played on his own server
13:11 < pbunny> Stormx2: i will be making a website soon that will describe advantages of my server thoroughly
13:11 <+md_5> good job mate
13:11 < pbunny> md_5: what's the problem with it?
13:11 < pbunny> md_5: btw, i have plans for client too
13:12 < Stormx2> oh god
13:12 <+md_5> fuck me
13:12 <+md_5> please
13:12 < pbunny> ?
13:12 < pbunny> ok
13:12 <+md_5> JUST MAKE YOUR OWN GAME THEN
13:12 < dav1d> md_5: watch out what you're saying, it might come true
13:12 < pbunny> md_5: yes, that's in plans too
13:12 < dav1d> lol
13:12 < dav1d> you will die horribly
13:12 < pbunny> i will stick to mc protocol though
13:12 < pbunny> to save time
13:12 < pbunny> dav1d: lol, no
13:13 <+md_5> <Stormx2> It's not. You're mixing networking code with application logic.
13:13 < pbunny> speaking of client..
13:13 <+md_5> <pbunny> also its better optimised that way
13:13 <+md_5> LOL
13:13 < dav1d> unmaintainable code + graphics/opengl
13:13 <+md_5> yes.... better optimized
13:13 < dav1d> + threads
13:13 < dav1d> you are dead
13:13 <+md_5> lets put network code in application logic
13:13 < pbunny> i assume developing client similar to vanilla client and making it free is not piracy?
13:13 < dav1d> as you maybe know opengl loves threads
13:13 <+md_5> for optimization reasons
13:13 <+md_5> 	mc_int ccc,cccc;
13:13 <+md_5> unsigned char ccccc;
13:13 <+sadimusi> pbunny: what protocol version are you using? and did you just shut the server down?
13:13 <+md_5> thats gonna totally bite you
13:14 <+md_5> also why do you have mc_int
13:14 < pbunny> md_5: "1) read from wire 2) process" is more optimized than "1) read from wire 2) put in structured format 3) read from structured format 4) process"
13:14 <+md_5> I dont even
13:14 < pbunny> isn't it obvious?
13:14 <+md_5> pbunny you are fucked. just sayin
13:14 < pbunny> sadimusi: no
13:14 < dav1d> ^
13:14 < pbunny> 61
13:14 <+md_5> there is a point where that becomes entirely pointless
13:14 < pbunny> there is minor ping glitch
13:14 < pbunny> refresh server list
13:14 < Stormx2> pbunny, You need to appreciate that there is always a trade-off between optimization and the quality of your code.
13:14 < dav1d> why dont you write the server in asm?
13:15 < dav1d> I mean handcrafted asm is definitly better than gcc
13:15 < Stormx2> And you're drawing the line between those two things at a very strange place
13:15 <+pdelvo> Lets talk to a wall. That makes more sense
13:15 <+md_5> pbunny can I just say
13:15 < pbunny> Stormx2: i solved the tradeoff in perfect way
13:15 < Stormx2> fuck me
13:15 < dav1d> pbunny: but the wall doesn't have such braindead responses
13:15 < Stormx2> I never claim any of my programming is perfect
13:15 <+md_5> when you as an amature programmer
13:15 < dav1d> ah
13:15 < dav1d> s/pbunny/pdelvo/
13:16 <+md_5> do not listen to the the combined hundreds of years experience we all have
13:16 < pbunny> md_5: may i see your server or something
13:16 <+md_5> you are doing it wrong
13:16 < dav1d> pbunny: spigot?
13:16 < dav1d> spigot <3
13:16 <+md_5> bungeecord?
13:16 < dav1d> and these are actually used by someone
13:16 < Stormx2> https://github.com/ElasticPortalSuite/BungeeCord
13:17 < Stormx2> pbunny, ^ md_5's thing
13:17 <+md_5> > bungeecord is used by the largest server in the world
13:17 < Zachoz> that thing is awesome ^
13:17 <+md_5> 6500 users at record
13:17 < pbunny> what is the point of connecting srver?
13:18 < pbunny> md_5: because java.
13:18 < pbunny> java attracts java people
13:18 <+md_5> sorry what?
13:18 < Zachoz> heh
13:18 <+md_5> the players dont give a fuck what the software is coded in
13:18 < Stormx2> here we go again
13:18 < pbunny> md_5: isnt' "largest server in the world" in java?
13:19 <+pdelvo> md_5 dont try to convince him to anything. that will not work
13:19 <+md_5> http://shotbow.net/forum/pages/Home/
13:19 <+md_5> over 1 million MInecraft players have joined that server
13:19 < pbunny> **:09:45        +md_5 | also why do you have mc_int
13:19 < pbunny> mc_* are types that are compatible with mc protocol
13:19 <+md_5> because the MC protocol soo needs  a special type of big endian integer
13:20 < pbunny> md_5: no, but it's more readable that way
13:20 <+pdelvo> instead ofconvert it to little endian
13:20 < pbunny> and easy to change type if mc protocol will change it
13:20 < Stormx2> oh come on, like readability is your objective here...
13:20 < pbunny> md_5: btw
13:20 < pbunny> do you know that shotbow is not server?
13:20 <+md_5> do you know what htons is?
13:20 < pbunny> its a _network_
13:20 <+md_5> hint: man htons
13:20 < pbunny> and it has NO servers with > 350 players
13:20 <+md_5> pbunny its a network because I made it a network
13:20 < pbunny> so it's not even large
13:21 < pbunny> md_5: Ok, so?
13:21 <+md_5> > the bungee has 6500 players
13:21 < pbunny> what is the point of network of servers?
13:21 <+md_5> so its a fucking server
13:21 < pbunny> md_5: 6500 players doesn't use the same worlds etc
13:21 <+md_5> the bungee can handle chat, movement etc when it wants to
13:21 <+md_5> its a fucking server
13:21 < Stormx2> pbunny, maybe ask one of the hundreds of admins who use bungeecord?
13:21 < pbunny> md_5: "can" in theory?
13:21 < pbunny> ok, forget about bungeecord
13:21 < pbunny> md_5: any experience in C ?
13:21 < pbunny> or something similar
13:22 < pbunny> (not java)
13:22 <+md_5> may I ask why that is relevant?
13:22 < Stormx2> Who gives a shit if it's java or c? That only begins to make a difference if you actually know how to write decent algorithms
13:22 <+md_5> I __am__ a better programmer than you. Full stop.
13:22 <+sadimusi> pbunny: why would I have to register on your server, there are minecraft accounts for a reason
13:22 < Stormx2> And given you've previously said you don't know what time complexity is, it's totally irrelevant to you.
13:23 <+md_5> sadimusi : pbunny doesnt own an MC account
13:23 <+md_5> and he has never pirated the game
13:23 <+md_5> he has never been to test his own server software
13:23 <+sadimusi> I know, but the users of his server have to
13:23 < Stormx2> wat
13:23 < Stormx2> This I did not realize.
13:23 < Stormx2> That's also impossible, surely?
13:23 < pbunny> sadimusi: 1) independence of external servers 2) decreased connect time 3) fancy login world with various possibilities (i.e. multiple portals for multiple different worlds etc)
13:23 <+md_5> Stormx2 nope... he just nags his friends to test for him. He doesnt make many mistakes or bugs. his code is perfect
13:23 <+md_5> also thats probably a big arse lie
13:24 <+md_5> 100 bucks says he has a pirate minecraft client
13:24 < pbunny> Stormx2: java coder shouldn't teach people how to code C .
13:24 <+md_5> .................
13:24 < Stormx2> pbunny, you shouldn't be teaching anyone anything
13:24 <+md_5> I'm not teaching you how to code see
13:24 <+md_5> C
13:24 < pbunny> Stormx2: i'm not trying to :)
13:24 < pbunny> you asked the code, i gave it
13:24 <+md_5> I'm teaching you how to code. full stop..
13:24 < Stormx2> <pbunny> Stormx2: java coder shouldn't teach people how to code C .
13:24 < Stormx2> You can't make statements like this with such little experience.
13:24 <+pdelvo> pbunny one more reason to feel bad, because he does and he is right
13:24 <+md_5> pbunny speaking of which, why are you freeing stack allocated variables at the very end of the stack frame
13:24 <+md_5> that makes 0 sense
13:25 <+md_5> luckily your compilers escape analysis has probably got your back, otherwise that would actually be an anti-optimization
13:25 < pbunny> md_5: i will do micro-optimisations later
13:25 < pbunny> thanks
13:26 <+md_5> uh
13:26 <+md_5> the point is you added it thinking it was an optimization
13:26 <+md_5> when it really isnt
13:26 < pbunny> so, any _actual_ arguments about why my code is bad (instead of bragging with own experience in java etc)
13:26 < Stormx2> pbunny, what's the purpose of your register/login code in the first snippet you posted?
13:26 <+md_5> soo, if you count micro optimisations are removing your optimisations
13:26 <+md_5> go for your life
13:27 <+md_5> bragging about experience in java?
13:27 <+md_5> I'm sorry where did I use that as an argument as to why your code was bad
13:27 < pbunny> Stormx2: to handle /register and /login commands
13:27 < Stormx2> pbunny, and why do you use those?
13:27 <+md_5> oh wait, I didnt
13:27 < pbunny> Stormx2: see above
13:27 < pbunny> my reply to sadimusi 
13:27 < Stormx2> which?
13:28 <+sadimusi> pbunny: do you intend to rely on the official auth servers eventually?
13:28 < pbunny> Stormx2: 38 lines above
13:28 <+sadimusi> because if not you are violating the rules of this channel
13:28 < pbunny> sadimusi: oh?
13:28 <+sadimusi> also, your server disconnects all the time
13:28 < pbunny> never saw such rule
13:28 <+md_5> well ofc he is gonna say yes
13:28 < pbunny> sadimusi: it disconnects when you do something that is not implemented
13:28 <+md_5> pbunny it was like the first thing you asked when you joined this channel
13:29 < pbunny> i.e. DEBUG(16:3)|parsebuffer()@parser.c:46: unknown packet type 0x66, dropping connection
13:29 <+md_5> 	world->name=strdup("Entrance");
13:29 <+md_5> also, why are you calling strdup there? I cant think of any reason
13:29 < pbunny> md_5: it used to read from config or something
13:29 <+md_5> strdup is?
13:29 <+md_5> I think not mate
13:29 < pbunny> no.
13:30 < pbunny> in place of "Entrance" there was some variable
13:30 < pbunny> iirc
13:30 < pbunny> then i made names static
13:30 <+pdelvo> why dont you put your config reading logic directly in there. then you save a method call
13:30 < pbunny> pdelvo: i don't read world names from config now
13:30 < pbunny> no point
13:30 <+md_5> pdelvo yeah, method calls are expensive
13:30 <+md_5> them JMP instructions
13:31 < Stormx2> stack push too right? think of the registers!
13:31 <+md_5> jeez
13:32 <+md_5> 3,600,000,000 + 1 instructions a second just pushed it over the limit
13:32 <+md_5> <pbunny> 26.95$ just to test a server sounds quite expensive to me
13:32 < pbunny> md_5: it is
13:32 <+md_5> it could probably save you 26 bucks in time
13:32 <+md_5> oh wait
13:32 <+md_5> you sat at home for 6 months straight reading the source code of your operating system and all its apps
13:33 <+md_5> you have no need for time or money
13:33 < Stormx2> $26 is below the wage per hour of a junior developer
13:33 < Stormx2> (average)
13:33 < pbunny> md_5: privacy is much more important than buying client to save some time
13:33 < pbunny> privacy is _critical_
13:33 < Stormx2> or at least it would be in my country
13:33 < pbunny> Stormx2: lol
13:33 < pbunny> nice country
13:33 <+md_5> <pbunny> any useful links on AES/CFB8 stream cipher implementation in C?
13:34 <+md_5> guessing Openssl would be
13:34 <+md_5> you know
13:34 <+md_5> a start
13:34 < jast> lol CFB
13:34 < pbunny> md_5: whast
13:34 < pbunny> jast: AES/CFB8 is what mc protocol uses
13:34 < pbunny> don't lol without necessarity
13:34 < jast> *lol CFB8
13:34 <+md_5> pbunny is your aes cipher written in assembly
13:34 <+pdelvo> but the question is: Is Openssl really optimized enough for his server?
13:34 <+md_5> and makes use of aes-ni?
13:34 <+md_5> pdelvo well openssl has aes-ni
13:34 < jast> why not? gratuitous loling is fun
13:34 <+md_5> but its not hand coded assembly
13:34 < dav1d> openssl is not secure!
13:35 < dav1d> pbunny: did you even audit openssl?
13:35 < jast> yeah, because hand-rolled implementations are much less vulnerable to side-channel attacks \o/
13:35 <+md_5> dav1d yes, he read every line at 10 lines a second
13:35 < dav1d> md_5: of course he did also understand what he read
13:35 <+md_5> jast he doesnt know what a side channel attack is, so shush and dont confuse him
13:35 <+ammar2> pbunny: you still didn't respond to whether you audited the propietary code in your actual hardware
13:35 <+md_5> also
13:35 <+ammar2> maybe they hid the backdoors in there
13:35 < dav1d> ammar2: of course, he readzzz opcodezzzz
13:35 <+md_5> openssl is 400,000 lines of code
13:35 <+ammar2> they could be spying on you right now
13:35 <+md_5> and he reads at 10 lines a sec
13:36 < jast> glad to see you guys having fun
13:36 < dav1d> haha
13:36 <+md_5> so 40,000 seconds
13:36 < Stormx2> over 24hr?
13:36  * Stormx2 is tired
13:36 <+md_5> or 666 hours
13:36 <+md_5> or 27.5 days
13:36 <+md_5> of reading 24.7
13:36 < dav1d> mh
13:36 <+ammar2> you just skipped the important bit, 666
13:36 <+ammar2> its a conspiracy
13:36 <+md_5> lets just assume he read for 20 hours a day like he claimed
13:36 < dav1d> I wonder how he earns money
13:37 <+md_5> spent a month reading the openssl code
13:37 <+ammar2> dav1d: he audits code
13:37 < dav1d> I bet his so called "wife" has to work while he is auditing linux
13:37 < pbunny> ammar2: hiding code in hardware is much more costly than in software
13:37 <+md_5> pbunny tell me what it feels like to have spent a month of your life reading openssl?
13:37 < dav1d> pbunny: but also way more efficient
13:37 < pbunny> if they are backdoors there, fbi could decrypt my disk or worse when they took my pc
13:37 <+md_5> DOING NOTHING BUT READING OPENSSL FOR A MONTH
13:37 < dav1d> s/wife/mother/
13:37 < Stormx2> With all that time spent reading source code, you'd think he'd find time to mow a lawn and raise $26 for an account.
13:37 < pbunny> but they were unable to find anything, so i assume hardware is somewhat safe
13:37 <+md_5> and you expect as to fucking believe that
13:37 < jast> hiding code in hardware isn't actually all that complicated. most modern CPUs are based on a microcode architecture.
13:37 <+md_5> *us
13:37 < dav1d> pbunny: question is, do you even have to hide anything? lol
13:37 < pbunny> dav1d: i have
13:37 < dav1d> if yes, you already did it wrong
13:38 <+ammar2> pbunny: did the fbi take your computer because u were 1337 hax0rzing
13:38 < pbunny> ammar2: no.
13:38 < dav1d> pbunny: then you already did it wrong
13:38 <+md_5> ammar2 no they just grounded him
13:38 <+md_5> thats what you do to delinquent 13 year olds
13:38 < dav1d> md_5: psst he is member of lulzsec
13:38 < dav1d> md_5: you see his l33t hostname
13:38 <+sadimusi> and kgb
13:38 <+md_5> yeah m8
13:39 <+md_5> 110% lefit
13:39 <+md_5> legit
13:39 < pbunny> :)
13:39 < dav1d> also anonymus
13:39 < pbunny> where did you see kgb?
13:39 <+md_5> the fact that he tells 110% bullshit lies to this channel
13:39 <+sadimusi> you said that once ;)
13:39 < pbunny> md_5: there can't be 110% of something if used absolutely
13:39 < dav1d> well when lulzsec guys really were such noobs, no wonder they were caught (noobs like pbunny)
13:39 <+md_5> freenode_#mcdevs_20130111.log:[00:30:44] <pbunny> and i work for KGB now
13:39 < pbunny> dav1d: they weren't caught :p
13:40 < dav1d> pbunny: oh they got the wrong ones, I see
13:40 <+md_5> a month or so later: freenode_#mcdevs_20130206.log:[00:49:05] <pbunny> does KGB still exist btw?
13:40 < pbunny> dav1d: its an act of intimidation
13:40 < pbunny> in other words, lies by mass media
13:40 < dav1d> and the ones they got just said they were lulzsec for the lulz
13:40 < dav1d> smart
13:40 <+pdelvo> how can you work for kgb when you are reading 20h a day source code
13:40 < pbunny> dav1d: anybody can say anything if drugged and brainwashed right
13:40 < Stormx2> Jan 10 13:31:18 <pbunny>        i have 15 years of programming experience
13:40 < Stormx2> Jan 10 13:31:20 <pbunny>        you got pwned
13:40 < Stormx2> Jan 10 13:31:29 <pbunny>        and i work for KGB now
13:40 < Stormx2> Jan 10 13:31:39 <pbunny>        google is just their puppet
13:40 < jast> why bother with drugs
13:40 < pbunny> Stormx2: um, i wasn't serious about kgb
13:40 < pbunny> ( in case you believed it )
13:41 < dav1d> If I did h4xx like lulzsec/you I wouldn't go into random channels and tell everyone how leet I am
13:41 < pbunny> dav1d: i don't tell it
13:41 < dav1d> you just did
13:41 < pbunny> where?
13:41 < dav1d> your brain isn't secure it tells us
13:41 < pbunny> it is, i weal tin foil hat atm
13:42 <+sadimusi> is everybody still having fun? my offer to ban him still stands...
13:42 < jast> is it secure tin foil?
13:42 <+md_5> sadimusi http://www.wiki.vg/User:Md_5/pbunny
13:42 <+md_5> please sign petition
13:42 < Stormx2> sadimusi, +1 ban
13:42 <+md_5> Stormx2 http://www.wiki.vg/User:Md_5/pbunny
13:42 <+md_5> please sign
13:42 < Stormx2> already have
13:42 <+sadimusi> oh didn't see that
13:42 < Stormx2> I'm barneygale
13:42 <+md_5> Stormx2 wait
13:42 <+md_5> what
13:42 < Stormx2> Stormx2 is an old nick of mine
13:43 <+md_5> Stormx2 plz change nick back
13:43 -!- mode/#mcdevs [+o sadimusi] by ChanServ
13:43 < Stormx2> Uhg but Stormx2 has so much history on freenode!
13:43  * md_5 stab, I hate it when this happens
13:43 -!- mode/#mcdevs [+b *!*@stdout.lulzsec.com] by sadimusi
13:43 -!- pbunny was kicked from #mcdevs by sadimusi [pbunny]
13:43 < dav1d> sadimusi: I still dont understand why he is even here, since day one he said he pirated mc
13:43 < Stormx2> \o/
13:43 < dav1d> oh wow
13:43 <+md_5> finally
13:43 < dav1d> took you a long time
13:43  * md_5 breathes a sigh of relief
13:43 < dav1d> and the one time SirCmpwn was so right
13:43 < jast> FWIW 99.8% of the bullshit in the past two hours came from you guys, not pbunny
13:43 -!- mode/#mcdevs [-o sadimusi] by sadimusi
13:43 <+md_5> 5 months, 14 days of torment
13:43 < dav1d> jast: of course :P
13:44 < dav1d> Stormx2: wait your barneygale?
13:44 < Stormx2> I am.
13:44 <+md_5> mm
13:44 < dav1d> didn't you write then a protocol parsing lib in python?
13:44 < dav1d> Stormx2: ^
13:44 <+pdelvo> md_5 you have a page with the chat logs out of here ?
13:44 < dav1d> or am I confusing something
13:44 < Stormx2> Err, yeah, it's a year out-of-date though
13:44 < dav1d> Stormx2: awesome :D
13:44 <+md_5> pdelvo I can pull them for you
13:45 <+md_5> what do you need?
13:45 < dav1d> that brought me into minecraft networking
13:45 < Stormx2> dav1d, wrote my first one back in alpha :)
13:45 < Stormx2> I've been in this chan for 2.5 years now, blimey.
13:45 <+pdelvo> maybe the last 24h ? :D
13:45 < Stormx2> dav1d, that's cool! I'm sorry it was so messy. I was still learning python (still am)
13:46 < dav1d> Stormx2: na if it really was the lib I was thinking of, then it was great :P
13:46 < dav1d> (I would have done it completly different but my code would have been pretty hard to understand)
13:48 -!- nastyCreeper [~asd@static-71-174-73-11.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #mcdevs
13:48 <+md_5> pdelvo last couple days: http://www.spigotmc.org/private/mcdevs.txt
13:48 < Stormx2> What irks me about pbunny is his confidence in his own abilities. Like I say I've been doing mc dev for a couple years now, and I'd imagine a few people in this channel have been going even longer.
13:49 <+md_5> well actually thats the last 20 days
13:49 <+pdelvo> thanks!
13:49 < Stormx2> And I wouldn't attempt to write a full server..
13:49 < Stormx2> I've never even written a protocol implementation I'm happy with, and I've gone through at least 4 or 5 now
13:50 <+md_5> I'm gonna start work on an intergrated mini-server for bungee soon
13:50 <+sadimusi> Stormx2: when I was 12 I probably was just as confident. but then again, nobody told me otherwise
13:51 < Stormx2> I'd probably try writing it in PHP at that age
13:51 < Stormx2> :P
13:51 <+md_5> java all the way
13:51 < dav1d> lol
13:51 < dav1d> shoghicp: php! :D
13:51 <+sadimusi> I'm not sure if hypercard was still a thing back then
13:52 <+md_5> I want to make my own language that runs on the jvm
13:52 <+md_5> some of the newer languages today are weird
13:52 <+md_5> rust,go
13:53 < Stormx2> Rust looks nice, but I've never used either
13:54 <+ammar2> md_5: how is go weird?
13:54 <+md_5> the thing I love about java is how easy it is to do stadard things: networking
13:54 <+md_5> and how good the IDEs are
13:54 <+md_5> you can learn to program with a library just by using the IDE
13:54 <+md_5> whereas C programmers have to LEARN the library
13:55 <+md_5> and weak typing is for suckers
13:55 < dav1d> java sucks :P
13:55 < Stormx2> I miss strong typing when i'm writing python sometimes
13:55 < Stormx2> but I don't really miss much else
13:56 < Stormx2> Oh, I'm getting mixed up about what weak/strong typing means, nvm.
13:56 <+ammar2> I love writing out quick stuff in python but I can't really do a large project in it, probably my own fault
13:58 < Stormx2> ammar2, unfortunately for large projects you need an external dependency on twisted/similar
13:58 < dav1d> Stormx2: is this a problem?
13:59 <+ammar2> yeah dependencies are another thing which is pretty handy in java, just shade it in and you're done
13:59 < dav1d> well I don't like twisted, but there are really some cool libs out there
13:59 < Stormx2> dav1d, problem for users at least
13:59 <+ammar2> in python you have pip, but its still another step
13:59 < dav1d> Stormx2: pip is all you need or ship the complete virtualenv
13:59 <+ammar2> dav1d: both of those are orientated towards actual developers
14:00 <+ammar2> not particularly friendly to your average joe
14:00 < Stormx2> dav1d, I had issues with "pip install twisted" before - it didn't seem to install binaries
14:00 < Stormx2> I need to check it again though.
14:00 < dav1d> Stormx2: never done that :)
14:00 < dav1d> you only get problems if they have C dependencies
14:01 < Stormx2> dav1d, annoyingly another dependency, psutil, does have C dependencies
14:01 < Stormx2> but we live with it
14:01 < Stormx2> here's the project in question btw: https://github.com/mcdevs/mark2
14:02 < Stormx2> installation is a faff at the moment, but a proper installer will be there for beta release (few weeks time)
14:02 <+md_5> the annoying part about java is its compiled and heavy for small things
14:03 < dav1d> and classes
14:03 <+md_5> so banging out a quick script is hard
14:03 < dav1d> and no pointers
14:03 <+md_5> so sometimes I have to do python or php
14:03 <+md_5> and I only get through that by my general progammoing skills
14:03 < dav1d> especially function pointers
14:04 <+md_5> example being stuff like: http://paste.md-5.net/quborevafe.py
14:04 <+md_5> and yeah
14:04 <+md_5> C I'll be honest, I dont understand a lot of the finer points
14:04 <+md_5> but my call to pbunny about freeing stack objects etc I thought was pretty good
14:05 <+md_5> also
14:05 <+md_5> bet you pbunny doesnt use try catch because he perceives it to be slow
14:06 <+ammar2> that is indeed the logic he applied a while ago
14:06 <+ammar2> failing to realize that try catch is only detrimental to performance when an actual exception is thrown
14:06 < dav1d> try catch is awesome 
14:06 <+md_5> ammar2 actually it has a few instructions overhead
14:06 < dav1d> well, exceptions in general
14:07 <+md_5> thats like 1/1500000000 of your cpu time
14:07 <+ammar2> md_5: usually negligible for the most part
14:07 <+md_5> 1/1500000000 of A=a sec is a lot
14:07 <+md_5> must be optimized more
14:10 < SinZ> is he really gone? 0.0
14:11 <+md_5> yup
14:11 <+md_5> poof
14:11  * md_5 holds minute silence
14:11 < SinZ> better cancel international Bash-The-Bunny day then
14:11 < SinZ> s/international/the international
14:12 <+sadimusi> he sent me a few messages about how your petition wasn't fair :)
14:12 < SinZ> was totally fair, we did it right infront of him
14:13 < SinZ> I wonder if he is going to take his rage on the wiki?
14:15 < SinZ> pbunny: you are banned, so please don't listen into this chat, kthxbye
14:15 <+md_5> My pretty fied  wiki
14:17 -!- Morrolan [Morrolan@morrolan.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
14:19 -!- Morrolan [Morrolan@morrolan.ch] has joined #mcdevs
14:28 < Stormx2> £1 says nastyCreeper is pbunny
14:28 <+md_5> I didn't see the join message, switched to tablet
14:29 <+md_5> What's the host.
14:29 < dav1d> haha
14:29 < Stormx2> ~asd@static-71-174-73-11.bstnma.fios.verizon.net
14:29 < jast> ever heard of /whois
14:29 < dav1d> (~asd@static-71-174-73-11.bstnma.fios.verizon.net
14:29 <+md_5> Nah
14:29 < dav1d> yeah you see the ip
14:29 < SinZ> and was first join post ban
14:29 <+md_5> Pbunny is Aussie iirc
14:29 < dav1d> that would kill his privacy
14:30 <+md_5> Someone grep logs for nastycreeper, might be actual guy
14:30 < jast> the host means nothing. it's probably a haxorizeded drone.
14:31 < Stormx2> md_5, nothing came up. googling the hostname brought up an old IRC ban from somewhere else, nick was "Mad_Pierrot"
14:31 < nastyCreeper> ?
14:31 < Stormx2> otherwise I got nothing ;)
14:31 < dav1d> md_5: first join in my logs
14:31 < Flemmard> yea same here too
14:31 < dav1d> but these are my laptop logs
14:31 <+md_5> Its not him lol
14:31 < Flemmard> first join
14:31 < Flemmard> Session Start: Wed Feb 23 13:04:07 2011
14:31 < Flemmard> and this is my first log
14:31 < Flemmard> :>
14:31 < jast> no match in 2012 and 2013
14:32 < Stormx2> nastyCreeper, you were the first person to join after a troublemaker was banned - we thought you might be him on an alt
14:32 < Flemmard> no match since 23 feb 2011
14:32 < jast> Stormx2: googling dynamic IPs... useful
14:32 < dav1d> Stormx2: I think you win your pound
14:32 <+md_5> http://static-71-174-73-11.bstnma.fios.verizon.net
14:32 <+md_5> Lol
14:32 < Stormx2> jast, "static" in the hostname suggested it might not be dynamic
14:33 < jast> I don't believe hostnames
14:33 < dav1d> awesome :P
14:33 < Stormx2> How dynamic an IP is varies by country/isp. For example, my IP doesn't change when I reboot/unplug my modem.
14:33 <+md_5> Neither
14:33 < nastyCreeper> Stormx2: what
14:34 <+md_5> Some guy was banned
14:34 < jast> in other news, I'm gonna set completely-trustworthy-123-45-67-78.dialin.zoidberg.org as my new reverse DNS
14:34 <+md_5> We thought you might be him trying to evade ban
14:34 < dav1d> I think pbunny != andrea
14:34 < Stormx2> jast, we're trying to prove it *is* him, we're not trying to prove it's *not* him. sufficient but not necessary.
14:34 <+md_5> I should head to bed
14:35 < jast> good luck "proving" that
14:35 < nastyCreeper> is it ##court ?
14:35 < SinZ> yup
14:35 < jast> feel free to get some logic 101 lessons along the way
14:36 < Stormx2> feel free to try and make your point without being passive aggressive too ;)
14:36 <+sadimusi> it's pretty easy to check if it's him, just mention java
14:36 < dav1d> xD
14:37 < jast> this is not passive aggressive
14:37 < jast> it's active aggressive, with a bit of extra wording
14:37 < Stormx2> jast, what's the deal, pbunny left so you're looking for a fight?
14:39 < Stormx2> if nastyCreeper's hostmask had immediately led us something indicating he was pbunny, whether or not hostmasks can be faked doesn't make any difference, as no-one (including pbunny) would fake a hostmask that would implicate them.
14:39 < Stormx2> Hence "sufficient but not necessary"
14:39 < jast> my argument was that 'static' doesn't necessarily 'prove' that the IP is assigned statically, so it shouldn't be the basis of an argument
14:39 < jast> I used scare quotes. I win.
14:40 < SinZ> it most likely is him simply because he was the first join after the ban, and has no real ident or realname
14:40 < SinZ> it's*
14:40 < Stormx2> aye, these are my thoughts
14:40 < SinZ> undo that fix <3
14:40 < nastyCreeper> is SinZ troll?
14:40 < nastyCreeper> i don't get the situation
14:40 < Stormx2> If it is him, he can't say anything of substance without implicating himself
14:40 < nastyCreeper> i just joined
14:40 < Stormx2> So let's just wait
14:40 < dav1d> nastyCreeper: it's a looooong story
14:41 < jast> note to self: one piece of evidence is always sufficient
14:41 < dav1d> nastyCreeper: you just joined at the wrong moment 
14:41 < nastyCreeper> dav1d: sorry i was not aware
14:41 < dav1d> nastyCreeper: it has nothing to do with you in particular
14:41 < dav1d> nastyCreeper: just a bad coincidence
14:41 < nastyCreeper> ok
14:41 < Stormx2> aye don't worry mate
14:42 < Stormx2> nastyCreeper, new to minecraft dev? haven't seen you in channel before.
14:42 < dav1d> nastyCreeper: right before you someone was banned, we thought he might have changed the hostmask and rejoined as you
14:42 < dav1d> which lead to this "discussion"
14:42 < nastyCreeper> Stormx2: i want to make a minecraft server
14:43 < jast> why?
14:43 < nastyCreeper> jast: to educate myself, also to improve C skills
14:43 < SinZ> ...
14:43 < nastyCreeper> and maybe make my school project
14:43 < nastyCreeper> if it will be successful enough
14:43 < jast> okay, but this is a BIG project
14:43 < nastyCreeper> is it?
14:43 < jast> yes
14:43 < nastyCreeper> i like big projects
14:44 < jast> there's a lot of details you have to implement, and lots of finnicky details, and lots of background knowledge required
14:44 < dav1d> nastyCreeper: you will definitly learn from it, but dont expect it to get it done within one month
14:44 < jast> for someone fairly new to C, it could take well over a year to produce something usable
14:44 < jast> chances are you'll get disillusioned long before if you don't already have a certain level of experience
14:44 -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has joined #mcdevs
14:44 < dav1d> hey but every step is awesome (e.g. first connection to your server)
14:45 < jast> TCP connections in C aren't exactly beginner-friendly :)
14:45 < Stormx2> nastyCreeper, what's your in-game name, if you don't mind me asking?
14:45 < nastyCreeper> i'm not totally new to C
14:45 < jast> and that's without all the crypto BS
14:45 < nastyCreeper> Stormx2: what?
14:45 < jast> didn't assume you were
14:45 < dav1d> jast: crypto isn't too hard once you figured out what exact functions to call (openssl)
14:46 < nastyCreeper> anybody can show some C code?
14:46 < jast> yeah, it's not too hard once the hard part is done
14:46 < nastyCreeper> about protocol handling etc
14:46 < jast> that part is easy, too, if you don't care about it actually being secure ;)
14:46 < nastyCreeper> maybe C++ code
14:46 < dav1d> jast: hehe, only because openssl has so great docs
14:46 < jast> there's always libgcrypt if you want something else
14:46 < dav1d> jast: C or C++?
14:47 < dav1d> well now it's too late my openssl codes work
14:47 < jast> it's a C lib
14:47 < nastyCreeper> anybody here developed minecraft server in C ?
14:47 < dav1d> but that was two days digging through openssl headers
14:47 < nastyCreeper> i could use some snippets
14:47 < nastyCreeper> to get the idea
14:47 < dav1d> nastyCreeper: Fador did, but I think it was C++
14:48 < dav1d> nastyCreeper: http://wiki.vg/Server_List
14:50 < nastyCreeper> who is pbunny?
14:50 -!- AnotherOne [~kvirc@178.151.74.138] has joined #mcdevs
14:50 < dav1d> nastyCreeper: the guy who was banned
14:50 < jast> who isn't?
14:51 < nastyCreeper> [13:48] <pbunny> i develop server in C [13:50] <pbunny> feel free to ask specific questions if you have any
14:51 < nastyCreeper> is it troll?
14:52 < dav1d> nastyCreeper: more or less
14:52 < SinZ> nastyCreeper: how did you get those quotes btw?
14:52 < dav1d> Stormx2, md_5 ^
14:52 < nastyCreeper> SinZ: he just pmed me
14:52 <+sadimusi> yeah sure :D
14:52 < jast> nice try, though
14:53 < jast> I think we can safely conclude that *someone* in here is pbunny
14:53 < dav1d> nastyCreeper: you wanna tell us the nick he used?
14:53 < dav1d> oh nvm
14:53 < dav1d> he obviously used pbunny xD
14:53 < Stormx2> ;D
14:53 <+sadimusi> nastyCreeper: please just leave, I really don't want to ban you over and over again
14:54 < jast> yeah, totally sufficient evidence
14:54 < dav1d> well that is easy to find out when I am home
14:54 < SinZ> jast: we know that, as he was pming us about stuff we said post ban
14:54 < jast> I'm probably pbunny too
14:54 < dav1d> just filter out the nicks with a certain threshold on lines
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14:55 < nastyCreeper> sadimusi: i'm not pbunny
14:55 < nastyCreeper> but i can leave if you want
14:56 < nastyCreeper> not much deal
14:56 < jast> riga, eh? cute
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14:59 <+sadimusi> nastyCreeper: stay then, he might have had a seconds client in here already
15:01 <+sadimusi> wasn't there a libminecraft or something in C?
15:01 < dav1d> yeah someone in here wrote it, but I think it's not up to date
15:03 <+sadimusi> nastyCreeper: must it be C? you might make much faster progress in other languages
15:03 < nastyCreeper> i'm fine with other languages as long as they are not object-oriented
15:04 < dav1d> any reasons against oop?
15:04 <+Fador> yeah my server is in C++ but some parts like connection handling and encryption are "pure" C ;)
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15:15 < nastyCreeper> dav1d: http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/OO_programming/
15:16 < nastyCreeper> "“Sometimes, the elegant implementation is just a function. Not a method. Not a class. Not a framework. Just a function.” — John Carmack"
15:16 < nastyCreeper> Carmack is my God
15:16 < dav1d> nastyCreeper: yes?
15:16 < nastyCreeper> dav1d: yes.
15:16 < dav1d> nastyCreeper: it's not like Java that you have to use a class
15:16 < dav1d> nastyCreeper: classes/oop can cleanup things a lot
15:16 < dav1d> when used in the right places
15:16 < nastyCreeper> how?
15:17 < nastyCreeper> what are "right places"?
15:17 < dav1d> nastyCreeper: your job to figure it out, there is no rule, use it, where it makes sense
15:17 < dav1d> avoid it, where it doesn'T
15:18 < dav1d> s/T/t/
15:18 < AnotherOne> oh
15:18 < AnotherOne> i see paranoia in this chat
15:18 < nastyCreeper> dav1d: first, you ask me about reasons against op, then you tell me it's my job to figure it out
15:18 < nastyCreeper> i think you are troll
15:19 < nastyCreeper> against oop, sorry
15:19 < dav1d> nastyCreeper: what?
15:19 < nastyCreeper> dav1d: you haven't provided reasons for using oop
15:19 < dav1d> nastyCreeper: I said that oop makes sense in certain places (in a lot even) but it's your job not to overdo it
15:19 < nastyCreeper> "certain places" is not constructive explanation
15:20 < nastyCreeper> i can say that pigs are squared in certain places and times, that will make no less sense than your statement
15:20 < dav1d> sadimusi: I think you were right
15:20 < nastyCreeper> dav1d: i'm not pbunny if that's what you mention
15:21 < dav1d> whoever said that?
15:21 < nastyCreeper> ?
15:28 < jast> fwiw I'm convinced too
15:28 < Stormx2> lol finally
15:31 < nastyCreeper> you guys are weird
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15:32 <+pdelvo> he will come back
15:32 < jast> chances are he's still here
15:41 < Yoshi2> everything is possible
15:43 < dav1d> I bet 5$ he is still here :P
16:03 < AnotherOne> he may be you... he may be me...
16:04 <+pdelvo> he is dav1d and now he is trying to get our money! :o
16:05 < dav1d> RIGHT!
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16:42 <+pdelvo> my markdown version of the protocol page is almost finished
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17:28 <+pdelvo> finished :) https://github.com/pdelvo/TestWiki/wiki/Protocol
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17:40 < AnotherOne> as for me tables are too big compared to wiki page
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17:51 <+pdelvo> its because they are using the github theme
17:52 <+pdelvo> This is the plain text: https://gist.github.com/pdelvo/2c65f3c1f72b1fa6ec8d/raw/a523b31f83b0863ca1c4027753b9408a59bdcfb7/gistfile1.md
17:53 < dav1d> tbh I prefer the wiki as it is
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19:46 < redu> .
19:47 <+pdelvo> .
19:51 < shoghicp> ·
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20:02 < dav1d> there goes pbunny
20:03 <+pdelvo> Im currently working on a git based server that supports branching and  templating
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20:10 < Stormx2> dav1d, he was using opera mini, which proxies through opera's servers
20:10 < Stormx2> guessing he's not some l33t haxxor with multiple compromised machines after all
20:11 < dav1d> Stormx2: mh?
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20:11 < Stormx2> dav1d, this was re: <dav1d> there goes pbunny
20:12 < dav1d> Stormx2: I am pretty sure unnicked was him, joined the first time, shortly after sadimus_i was about to ban the nastyCreeper and the used the same freenode node and it wasn't a registered account
20:12 < Stormx2> yeah, I agree
20:12 < Stormx2> I'm saying that the IP unnicked217 used was a proxy server for opera mini
20:12 < Stormx2> so he was IRCing from his phone
20:12 < Stormx2> after his other hostmasks were banned
20:14 < dav1d> ah
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20:41 <+pdelvo> http://wiki.pdelvo.de/Protocol newest version. http://wiki.pdelvo.de/Protocol@master~10 10 versions back :)
20:42 <+pdelvo> and I know thats ugly because this is how the template looks like: http://wiki.pdelvo.de/default.html@template :D
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21:02 < TkTech> sadimusi: What the hell did I miss?
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21:38 < AnotherOne> hey people
21:38 < AnotherOne> tell me about dupe
21:38 < AnotherOne> i feel nooby because dont know how to do this
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23:01 < AnotherOne> hey?
23:01 <+pdelvo> hi
23:02 < AnotherOne> so what about dupes? i cant understand how every retard has few stacks of old golden apples
23:02 <+pdelvo> I cant help you with that
23:03 < AnotherOne> heh:)
23:03 < AnotherOne> so i will go and implement http://www.wiki.vg/Slot_Data
23:04 < AnotherOne> though i dont fully understand it
23:06 <+pdelvo> This is how you can read the slot data type: https://github.com/pdelvo/Pdelvo.Minecraft/blob/master/Pdelvo.Minecraft.Protocol/Packets/ItemStack.cs#L67
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23:07 <+pdelvo> info: the monser if statement is only relevant for previos minecraft version. the code in it will be executed in the current version
23:07 <+pdelvo> the AdditionalData byte array is nbt data
23:08 < AnotherOne> i like BigEndianStream
23:09 <+pdelvo> just a little helper which reads data and converrt it to little endian :)
23:12 < AnotherOne> i did it in other way
23:12 <+pdelvo> there are many ways to achive one goal
23:12 < AnotherOne> but this method is nice too
23:13 <+pdelvo> I basicly use a chain of Stream objects. BigEndianStream -> FullyReadStream -> AesStream -> NetworkStream
23:13 < AnotherOne> oh
23:19 < AnotherOne> wiki was right about the amount of work
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23:24 <+pdelvo> http://wiki.pdelvo.de/Protocol I designed it a bit. Not finished yet but I like it
23:27 <+md_5> I'll be blunt
23:27 <+md_5> The more and more I investigate this way of doing it, mediawiki seems better
23:29 <+pdelvo> why?
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--- Day changed mer. mai 22 2013
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01:16 < Not-003> [mc-erl] clonejo pushed 1 commit to master [+3/-1/±8] http://git.io/d0i_wg
01:16 < Not-003> [mc-erl] clonejo 61f6a18 - changed config format, tons of changes [NOT WORKING]
01:17 <+clonejo> I feel pretty stupid with that commit message -.-
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01:18 < mpa1212> Is there any sort of API to check the number of players on a vanila server?
01:19 <+clonejo> mpa1212: You can send a ping request (0xFE), that's what the client does in the server list.
01:20 < mpa1212> clonejo: Thanks
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02:48 < Not-003> [wiki] Edit by Jonathanperret to Server List Ping -> http://tinyurl.com/okz7ndn
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04:22 <+clonejo> pdelvo: We could have changes to packets in the pre-releases in a separate branch, faciliating merges.
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11:30 <+pdelvo> @clonejo This is what I planned! :)
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11:53 <+pdelvo> Latest pre release: http://wiki.pdelvo.de/Protocol@pre Or using a tag: http://wiki.pdelvo.de/Protocol@13w17a
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12:19 < AnotherOne> hey people
12:19 <+pdelvo> hi
12:19 < AnotherOne> i have something strange here
12:21 < AnotherOne> 12 byte http://www.wiki.vg/Protocol#Entity_Velocity_.280x1C.29 packets
12:21 < AnotherOne> can it be some alignment?
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12:23 <+pdelvo> no they are 11 bytes. 1 byte id+ 4byte entity id + 4x2byte velocity = 11byte
12:23 < AnotherOne> i know
12:24 < AnotherOne> http://pastebin.com/Wj8ZvpyF
12:24 <+pdelvo> there is no alignment
12:25 < AnotherOne> here is the fragment
12:25 < AnotherOne> contents seem to be valid
12:26 <+pdelvo> the entity id seems to be very high
12:26 < AnotherOne> yes
12:26 < SinZ> pdelvo: Maybe have a changelog somewhere
12:26 < AnotherOne> it is
12:27 < AnotherOne> mb im reading 0x38 map chunk bulk incorrectly
12:27 <+pdelvo> are you sure you dont have any issues before this and this is really a Entity velocity packet?
12:28 <+pdelvo> maybe you do not read enough data and just a part of it
12:30 < AnotherOne> fuck
12:30 < AnotherOne> you are right
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12:32 < AnotherOne> it is ok now, thank you
12:33 <+pdelvo> np
12:35 < shoghicp> I'll be releasing soon the new stable version for PocketMine :D
12:36 < shoghicp> If anyone wants to create a server for MCPE, it needs a strong packet recovery system
12:36 <+md_5> hm?
12:36 < shoghicp> (MCPE uses UDP, not TCP)
12:37 < shoghicp> And some Android devices drop up to 20% of the packets
12:38 < SinZ> let them suffer with the lag
12:38 < SinZ> <3
12:38 < AnotherOne> why udp?
12:39 < AnotherOne> yes! let those battery burners suffer!
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12:42 < shoghicp> xD
12:42 < shoghicp> Also, chunks aren't compressed
12:43 < AnotherOne> less cpu usage in cost of more traffic?
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12:44 < AnotherOne> what is the approximate compression ratio?
12:44 < shoghicp> MCPE, 0% xD xD xD
12:44 < shoghicp> in PC
12:44 < shoghicp> ...
12:44 < shoghicp> Idk
12:45 < shoghicp> PocketMine stats: http://stats.pocketmine.net/
12:45 < shoghicp> South Korea has lots of servers
12:47 < shoghicp> Also, in MCPE, you've to implement 2 protocols
12:47 < shoghicp> Raknet
12:47 < shoghicp> and Minecraft
12:47 <+pdelvo> the stable release download link on your homepage does not work. error 404
12:49 < shoghicp> I moved the repository
12:49 < shoghicp> pdelvo: you may want to use the dev. version ;)
12:50 <+pdelvo> But I dont have Minecraft PE so this would not make much fun :D
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12:50 < shoghicp> :(
12:50 < shoghicp> I'm creating a plugin for pocketmine
12:50 <+pdelvo> I have no phone I could run it on
12:50 < shoghicp> to allow PC Minecraft clients
12:50 < shoghicp> :D
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12:55 < shoghicp> pdelvo: also, PocketMine is compatible with Minecraft Pi
12:56 < shoghicp> If you have one, you can test with it
12:56 <+pdelvo> I dont have a Raspberry too :(
12:56 < shoghicp> I might win one tomorrow
12:56 < shoghicp> (another one)
12:57 <+pdelvo> if you send it to me I can test it out :D
12:57 < shoghicp> pdelvo: If you pay the sipping costs, it's yours ;)
12:57 < shoghicp> shipping
12:57 < shoghicp> oh
12:57 < shoghicp> you said that before me xD
12:57 <+pdelvo> you live in italia?
12:58 < shoghicp> spain
12:58 <+pdelvo> ah okay
12:58 <+pdelvo> Im pretty sure that shipping it is more expensive then buying one here :D
12:59 < shoghicp> I got mine shipped from UK
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13:08 < shoghicp> Oh, it seems that it works with 99% random packet loss
13:09 < shoghicp> (hey, huge lag)
13:11 < AnotherOne> oh damn
13:11 < AnotherOne> i love mojang
13:11 < AnotherOne> http://www.wiki.vg/Object_Data
13:12 < AnotherOne> http://images.wikia.com/potcoplayers/images/e/e8/Genius-rage-face.png
13:13 <+pdelvo> http://www.wiki.vg/Entities#Entity_Metadata_Format
13:14 < shoghicp> http://www.wiki.vg/Protocol
13:14 <+pdelvo> :D
13:20 < SinZ> http://wiki.vg/Query
13:21 < SinZ> I wish Notch/Jeb made Query enabled by default
13:23 < shoghicp> It'll be enabled by default in PocketMine ;)
13:24 < SinZ> then again, I wish MC Forge actually had content for it
13:24 < SinZ> bukkit puts their plugin list into query, forge doesn't =(
13:30 < AnotherOne> fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck
13:30 < AnotherOne> damn entity metadata
13:31 < AnotherOne> fucking protocol
13:31 -!- zh32 is now known as zh32|away
13:32 <+pdelvo> Sample implementation: https://github.com/pdelvo/Pdelvo.Minecraft/blob/master/Pdelvo.Minecraft.Protocol/Packets/MetadataInfo.cs#L32
13:32 -!- zh32|away is now known as zh32
13:38 <+pdelvo> facebook is so concerned about my account they want my phone number. Isnt that unselfish?
13:41 < Calinou> well, it is
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14:35 < ellisvlad> hello world, how are we today? :)
14:50 < AnotherOne> sup
14:50 < AnotherOne> im almost ok
14:50 <+pdelvo> Im trying to implement a diff algorythm and it performs horrible :(
14:51 < AnotherOne> and how are you with your server?
14:52 <+pdelvo> it works great, except for the diff view im implementing :D
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14:53 < AnotherOne> why diff?
14:54 <+pdelvo> http://wiki.pdelvo.de/Protocol@master...pre should give you the difference between the current stable version and the current pre release
14:54 <+pdelvo> but now mojang would have their 100th birthday before you get your result :D
14:55 < AnotherOne> hehe
14:55 < AnotherOne> it's all sharp
14:55 < AnotherOne> why not c++?
14:55 < AnotherOne> is c# faster than java?
14:56 <+pdelvo> it is, but this does not make the difference between 100 years and some milliseconds which would be okay
14:56 <+pdelvo> Does someone know which algorythm github is using? im going with Longest common subsequence and changed it to work with lines instead of chars which seems to be not my best idea
14:58 <+pdelvo> ah i have an idea. lets see....
14:59 < SinZ> pdelvo: that link gives me "Not found"
14:59 <+pdelvo> I know. Im currently doing that
15:11 -!- Zachoz is now known as Zachoz|Away
15:24 < AnotherOne> Semi-invulnerability: Don't send position updates, that causes that you'll not recieve health updates and entities will be unable to attack you. 
15:25 < AnotherOne> what is position updates?
15:25 < AnotherOne> i send 0x0D 20 times a second
15:25 < AnotherOne> but player is invulnerable
15:39 < AnotherOne> whoops
15:39 < AnotherOne> i lied
15:39 < AnotherOne> it is vulnerable
15:53 < TkTech> pdelvo: I'd block your wiki off with robots.txt, or you'll get hammered for duplicate content
15:54 < TkTech> (While you're working on it)
15:58 < AnotherOne> why block?
15:59 < AnotherOne> do you think it would go higher in google than wiki.vg?
15:59 < jast> not necessary for google to crawl it
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16:07 < AnotherOne> Current Item     short     0     The item the player is currently holding. Note that this should be 0 for "no item", unlike -1 used in other packets. A negative value crashes clients.
16:07 < AnotherOne> trololo
16:07 < AnotherOne> exploitable
16:07 <+sadimusi> there are 1000 ways to crash the client ;)
16:08 < TkTech> AnotherOne: No, because it has no inbound links. But if he ends up wow'ing with his wiki an we decide to switch, it'll have already been penalized by google for 100% duplicate content.
16:09 < AnotherOne> oh
16:22 < unnicked217> will http://wiki.vg/ remain? may i put links to it on my website?
16:25 < unnicked217> TkTech:
16:25 < unnicked217> is http://wiki.vg/Protocol link permanent?
16:26 < TkTech> Yes, that's why it exists. We've changed hosts a few times (not recently) and no one noticed.
16:32 < unnicked217> good
16:37 < dx> ammar2: HELLO THERE
16:38 <+ammar2> hi.
16:38 < dx> ammar2: I WAS TALKING IN A RANDOM CHANNEL AND SOME GUY WANTED TO DEBUG MEMORY LEAK ISSUES
16:38  * dx turns caps lock off
16:38 <+ammar2> ok, what can I do for you?
16:38 < dx> ammar2: and he linked some bot written in python and i saw a familiar name
16:38 <+ammar2> aah pyCraft
16:39 < dx> i just wanted to say
16:39 < dx> https://github.com/ammaraskar/pyCraft/blob/bots/networking/NetworkManager.py#L242
16:39 <+ammar2> my mutilated terrible code
16:39 < dx> this is an eyesore
16:39 <+ammar2> its horrible yes
16:39 < dx> lol, glad you know it
16:39 <+ammar2> it was written like a year and a half ago when I barely knew python
16:39 <+ammar2> and now i don't have time to rewrite it :3
16:40 < dx> well you could get rid of all of that quickly with getattr(PacketListenerManager, "handle%x" % ord(response))(self.FileObject)
16:40 <+ammar2> dx: it is open sauce
16:40  * ammar2 whistles
16:40 < dx> i just wrote that for the other guy who asked me how would i do that without switch
16:40 < dx> ammar2: lol
16:41 <+ammar2> anyway what I had planned was json protocol specs and then specific handler methods for edge cases, which need parsing for length like chunk packets etc
16:41 <+ammar2> then you could switch between the protocol files
16:42 < AnotherOne> nice python code, lol
16:43 <+ammar2> I really should nuke that source :P
16:43 <+ammar2> so embarassing
16:43 < TkTech> ammar2: Hide your shame boy.
16:43 < AnotherOne> oh, np
16:43 < AnotherOne> you didnt see my code
16:44 < AnotherOne> http://pastebin.com/XdS7Vvar
16:44 < AnotherOne> like this
16:45 < TkTech> Kinda expect it from you.
16:45 < TkTech> No offence, you're clearly young and learning.
16:47 < AnotherOne> heh
16:47 < AnotherOne> it's quick and dirty version
16:47 < jast> I'm currently writing what might pass as an Enterprise Framework... does that mean that I'm still too young, or does it mean that I'm too old?
16:48 < TkTech> jast: That means you've gone over to the dark side and given up.
16:48 < TkTech> You've betrayed the Cult Of Hip.
16:48 < jast> oh crap
16:48 < jast> but I'm using cute words and everything !11
16:49 < jast> also, no java
16:49 < dx> no java?
16:49 < dx> what
16:49 < dx> how can it be enterprise if it's not java
16:49 < jast> it tries to fulfill specific enterprise needs
16:50 < jast> can hardly be non-enterprise if it does that, right?
16:50 < jast> (bonus points for talking about something being highly specific without actually going into specifics)
16:51 < dx> did you give bonus points to yourself?
16:51 < dx> that's cheating
16:51 < jast> sure. I do that all the time. it's fun.
16:51 -!- Yoshi2 [~chatzilla@xdsl-87-78-40-41.netcologne.de] has joined #mcdevs
17:02 < dx> (bonus points for being dx)
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17:09 < AnotherOne> i am trying to connect to bukkit server and it is sending me 2 0xFD's in a row. does it mean server requires encryption?
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17:09 <+sadimusi> two of them is a bit odd
17:10 <+sadimusi> but most servers do require encryption
17:10 < AnotherOne> i think second is coming after my 0xCD
17:11 <+sadimusi> maybe it just send more 0xFDs until you respond with a correct 0xFC
17:12 <+sadimusi> you could use a proxy and disable encryption on the client side
17:13 < AnotherOne> proxies are outdated, aren't they?
17:13 <+sadimusi> I really have to rename my fork of mc3p :/
17:13 <+sadimusi> https://github.com/sadimusi/mc3p/
17:15 <+sadimusi> there is currently no easy way to disable encryption on the client side, but I could build one if you want me to
17:16 < AnotherOne> http://www.wiki.vg/Utility_List
17:16 < AnotherOne> put it here mb
17:16 < AnotherOne> it was not encryption:)
17:16 <+sadimusi> it is there, the info is just a bit outdated
17:17 < AnotherOne> yes
17:18 -!- shoghicp [~shoghicp@77.225.6.14] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:18 < Not-003> [wiki] Edit by Sadimusi to Utility List -> http://tinyurl.com/oebf8ea
17:18 < AnotherOne> it is something about 0xD1 Teams
17:19 < AnotherOne> server sends two of them
17:19 <+sadimusi> so you are saying there are servers which don't require encryption?
17:19 < AnotherOne> pirated servers
17:19 < AnotherOne> don't
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17:20 <+sadimusi> that doesn't make any sense, but I guess it's good for your testing purposes
17:21 < AnotherOne> offline mode server don't need encryption:)
17:21 < AnotherOne> servers*
17:21 < AnotherOne> and yes, it is good:)
17:22 < AnotherOne> but it is not good bukkit is weird
17:22 <+sadimusi> why are you testing with bukkit anyway?
17:22 < AnotherOne> i took random pirated server from my list
17:23 < AnotherOne> and trying to connect to it
17:23 < AnotherOne> local server is ok now
17:23 < AnotherOne> no problems
17:24 <+sadimusi> you don't have any teams set on it I assume
17:24 <+sadimusi> did you notice that you only have to read certain fields of the 0x1D packet depending on the mode?
17:25 < AnotherOne> sure
17:27 < AnotherOne> why does bukkit send that?
17:28 <+sadimusi> create a team on your local server and you'll get it there as well
17:28 <+sadimusi>  /scoreboard teams add teset
17:28 <+sadimusi> -e
17:31 < AnotherOne> let's see
17:31 < AnotherOne> yep
17:32 < AnotherOne> looks like problem is in message handler
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17:38 < AnotherOne> am i first here who makes own client?
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17:38 <+ammar2> nope
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17:44 < AnotherOne> show me yours if you make it too:)
17:46 < AnotherOne> d1 fixed, i've forgot to read team name
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17:59 < AnotherOne> Display Scoreboard (0xD0) 
17:59 < AnotherOne> why is this sent? what is a scorebord in current version?
17:59 < AnotherOne> scoreboard*
18:01 < AnotherOne> oh i got it
18:01 < AnotherOne> hp bar
18:01 < AnotherOne> omg
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18:22 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 6 commits to master [+1/-0/±8] http://git.io/AAc9pQ
18:22 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 745a973 - Comments and missing lock
18:22 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 7f3fa27 - Added a safestop command
18:22 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 49b6420 - Made nbt.Reader private
18:22 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath a08b41f - Removed unneeded locks
18:22 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 3b89bed - Minor changes
18:22 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath d3ec5d7 - Simplified chunk compressing
18:22 < AnotherOne> omg
18:23 < AnotherOne> that server gives me all players' names
18:23 < AnotherOne> exploitable #2
18:23 < Thinkofdeath> ?
18:23 < AnotherOne> log and brute all of them:)
18:23 <+pdelvo> I have a better idea then block everything with a robots file. I added a canonial link into the side header which tells search engines where the original lives
18:23 < AnotherOne> i think most of then have 123
18:24 < Yoshi2> are these players the ones who are currently playing on the server?
18:24 < AnotherOne> them*
18:24 < AnotherOne> all who have ever registered
18:24 < Thinkofdeath> Most servers send all players names for the tab-list
18:25 < Yoshi2> all players who have ever played/registered on the server? That is rather unusual
18:25 < Thinkofdeath> Only online ones
18:26 < AnotherOne> this one sends http://www.wiki.vg/Protocol#Update_Score_.280xCF.29 for all registered players
18:26 < AnotherOne> healthbars
18:26 < Yoshi2> the server is only supposed to be sending the players who are online to the client
18:26 < Thinkofdeath> Ah that would be the bukkit plugin's fault I guess
18:27 < Thinkofdeath> (If its bukkit)
18:27 < AnotherOne> yes
18:27 < AnotherOne> it is bukkit
18:29 < shoghicp> Who is the developer of Burger? sadimusi?
18:29 < Thinkofdeath> AnotherOne: Its not really a big issue anyway, just a waste of bandwidth
18:30 < Thinkofdeath> shoghicp: I think so
18:30 < shoghicp> I'm thinking about integrating MCPE protocol support, or at least, output the data in a format compatible with Burguer
18:30 < shoghicp> Like https://gist.github.com/shoghicp/5601589
18:30 < shoghicp> I've my own tool to compare releases
18:31 < shoghicp> but if it is added to http://b.wiki.vg/ (or similer) it would be awesome
18:31 < dx> neat
18:31 < Thinkofdeath> I think the site just uses the output of https://github.com/mcdevs/Burger which uses json
18:32 < shoghicp> Then, I should follow Burger's output, and it should be compatible, right?
18:33 < Thinkofdeath> You would have to ask sadimusi, but I would assume so
18:33 < AnotherOne> hm
18:33 < AnotherOne> i'm getting end of stream right after 0x0D
18:34 < AnotherOne> am i reading too slow or what?
18:34 < dx> shoghicp: this is the repo of b.wiki.vg, vitrine/toppings has the parser of each part of it, looks really simple to me https://github.com/sadimusi/BurgerVitrine
18:34 < shoghicp> thanks
18:37 <+pdelvo> My first try to build some kind of compare view: http://wiki.pdelvo.de/Protocol@master...pre :D
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18:41 < dx> pdelvo: whoa
18:41 < Thinkofdeath> pdelvo: Looks nice but maybe it should show more of the page around the changes because its not very clear what change is for what packet
18:41 < dx> pdelvo: i have no idea how to read this
18:41 <+pdelvo> me too. im working on it :D 
18:41  * dx would like to mention that every existing wiki software has diff support already
18:42 < dx> although markdown makes diffs much nicer
18:42 < dx> mediawiki's table markup are awful
18:42 < dx> err.. *is awful
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18:52 < AnotherOne> i are dunecat
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19:05 <+pdelvo> I think thats a little bit better, but ot perfekt yet: http://wiki.pdelvo.de/Protocol@master...pre :D
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19:09 < Thinkofdeath> pdelvo: Its a bit wide :)
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19:22 < dx> pdelvo: pre {white-space: pre-wrap;}
19:22 < dx> oh wait..
19:23 < dx> you aren't using pre, you are explicitly telling it to avoid wrap
19:23 <+pdelvo> hm I dont want to wrap because of the line numbers
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19:23 <+pdelvo> but Im not sure about it :/
19:25 <+pdelvo> now with more context: http://wiki.pdelvo.de/Protocol@master...pre
19:30 -!- EyesIsMine is now known as suindraw
19:30 < dx> pdelvo: there are two double quote characters to close the style attribute of the td
19:30 -!- suindraw is now known as EyesIsMine
19:30 < dx> <td style="[...] padding-right: 10px; "">
19:31 <+pdelvo> oh thanks
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20:05 < AnotherOne> hey pdevlo
20:05 <+pdelvo> hi
20:05 < AnotherOne> it looks nice now
20:06 < AnotherOne> hmm... why change health to float?
20:06 <+pdelvo> thanks. If you got improvements to the diff view. it is templated: https://github.com/pdelvo/McDevsWiki/tree/template/diff  Send me a pull request:D
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20:11 < AnotherOne> http://i48.fastpic.ru/big/2013/0522/ae/d3ff29275b3687eae7405283108d43ae.png
20:12 < AnotherOne> word wrap?
20:12 <+pdelvo> then the line numbers would mess up 
20:13 < AnotherOne> horizontal scroller?:)
20:13 <+pdelvo> I can show you how that looks like
20:13 <+pdelvo> there is a scroller
20:13 <+pdelvo> should be updatet in max. 1min
20:18 < AnotherOne> no there isn't
20:18 < AnotherOne> that is mt scroller
20:18 < AnotherOne> my
20:18 <+pdelvo> hm there should be one
20:19 <+pdelvo> http://wiki.pdelvo.de/Protocol@master...pre
20:19 <+pdelvo> wrapping
20:19 < AnotherOne> i see, nice
20:20 <+pdelvo> it does not work everywhere oO
20:20 < AnotherOne> if you make line number at first line instead of middle it would be better
20:24 <+pdelvo> that is strange. why does the wrapping work "sometimes"
20:26 < AnotherOne> because web
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20:52 < AnotherOne> what is + before nick?
20:52 <+pdelvo> http://wiki.pdelvo.de/Protocol@master~5...pre now with working wrapping. 
20:53 <+pdelvo> @: fck you html. Doest work either. Now I got from "sometimes" to "most of the time"
20:54 < shoghicp> pdelvo: I should use that for the MCPE protocol documentation :D
20:56 <+pdelvo> I should print some html, throw it into a fire and sing a song to get the html god on my side. maybe this will fix it
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20:59 <+ammar2> AnotherOne: voice
21:00 < AnotherOne> voice?
21:01 < AnotherOne> pdelvo: version without those cells was better
21:01 < AnotherOne> make them transparent or something
21:02 < shoghicp> A question about Minecraft Pi
21:03 <+pdelvo> Got it! http://wiki.pdelvo.de/Protocol@master~5...pre
21:03 < shoghicp> Is 0,0,0 the spawn point at sea level?
21:04 < shoghicp> "(0,0,0) is the spawn point sea
21:04 < shoghicp> level. (X,Z) is the ground plane and Y is towards the sky."
21:04 < shoghicp> Is that right?
21:06 < AnotherOne> i must teach my code generator read wiki page and generate packets
21:11 < Yoshi2> I thought about doing that for my packet generator, but the entries are not standerized enough for that to be feasible
21:15 < Yoshi2> anything more complicated than "a = readString" or "b = readByte" requires its own rules
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21:35 < AnotherOne> fock own rules:) now my generator just does routine work for me, some packets must be customized, and i think it is ok
21:35 < AnotherOne> byte array is evil
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21:36 < AnotherOne> why no make it like string?
21:36 < AnotherOne> because mojang?
21:37 < shoghicp> a string is a byte array
21:37 < Yoshi2> a byte array is not necessarily a string
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21:38 < AnotherOne> i mean lenght
21:38 < AnotherOne> th*
21:39 < AnotherOne> they could do it right before array
21:39 < Yoshi2> hm, yeah, they could
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21:40 < AnotherOne> but they didn't
21:40 < AnotherOne> this is one of the things i have to customize after my generator
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21:53 < TkTech> Just not Freenode without the daily netsplit.
21:53 <+sadimusi> pdelvo: I don't think the templates should be in the same repo as the content...
21:54 <+pdelvo> they are on an orphan branch
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22:22 < AnotherOne> i saw dinnerbone here
22:22 < AnotherOne> is he real?
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22:42 <+pdelvo> jeah he is
22:42 <+pdelvo> and before you ask. Grum is real too
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22:58 < TkTech> AnotherOne: And of course, you're not going to needlessly bug them/ping them because you've read the channel rules and know that's a ban.
23:02 < AnotherOne> :D
--- Day changed jeu. mai 23 2013
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01:18 <+md_5> Wait what
01:18 <+md_5> Real
01:27 <+SpaceManiac> Everything is fake
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01:43 < Not-003> [fCraft] fragmer * r1974 2 files : Fixed typo in the root readme (thanks Zaneo)
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02:16 < Not-003> [wiki] Edit by Nickelpro to Pre-release protocol -> http://tinyurl.com/oftkadh
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06:30 <+md_5> https://gist.github.com/Dinnerbone/5631634
06:30 <+md_5> What the
06:31 <+md_5> ........
06:31 <+md_5> .........
06:31 <+md_5> ........
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07:57 < dx> md_5: what
07:57 < dx> md_5: these... are contents for the new chat packet?
07:58 < dx> i seriously hope i'm wrong
07:59 < dx>  we have a protocol where it's too 'expensive' to add a two byte header to indicate the packet length but they don't mind adding this
08:01 < dx> oh i just noticed the color/formatting part of it
08:07 <+AndrewPH> I still don't understand the point of encrypting /everything/
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08:07 < Grum> pdelvo: no way we're real! we're on the internats
08:08 < dx> AndrewPH: mitm?
08:08 < Grum> dx: its not too expensive, its impossible to know the size beforehand and its a HUGE mess in the first place
08:08 < Grum> also not remotely a priority
08:08 < dx> Grum: i agree that the protocol is a huge mess
08:08 <+AndrewPH> dx: I suppose so, but encrypting just chat and sensitive things (like the login procedure) would make mitm attacks pointless enough.
08:09 < ShaRose> no they wouldn't
08:09 < Grum> it indeed wouldnt
08:09 <+AndrewPH> enough, not completely pointless
08:09 < ShaRose> it's completely pointless to only encrypt 'some' packets
08:09 < Grum> so its like a: 'little bit of murder' ?
08:09 <+AndrewPH> there would still be a point, but you couldn't steal an account unless I'm missing something.
08:09 < dx> a few crows?
08:09 < Grum> you cant ever steal someones account
08:10 < Grum> also->traveling to work -- brb :P
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08:10 <+AndrewPH> Grum: er, i meant impersonate by sending chat
08:10 <+AndrewPH> and potentially taking over a server
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08:10 < ShaRose> AndrewPH again, what is the point of only encrypting some packets and not others
08:11 <+AndrewPH> ShaRose: what is the point of encrypting movement?
08:11 < ShaRose> it's easier to just encrypt everything
08:12 <+AndrewPH> yeah
08:12 <+AndrewPH> this is true
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08:12 < ShaRose> so why should mojang make the protocol more susceptible to weaknesses and increase code complexity again
08:13 < dx> if you want it to be easier to debug, just turn it off completely
08:13 <+AndrewPH> it just seems kinda inefficient to encrypt things that are sent many times per second
08:14 <+AndrewPH> I'm a bit surprised to see that the general opinion towards encrypting everything has changed since it was added.
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08:48 < Not-003> [fCraft] fragmer * r1975 2 files : Players can now /clear their chat even while /deaf
08:49 < Grum> dx: i dont see why it should be easy to debug
08:50 < Grum> i mean, all these arguments are purely from a point of: 'i want to interface with mc network code and boehoe i cannot read javacode'
08:50 < Grum> i mean, the game does it, why cant you?
08:50 < Not-003> [fCraft] fragmer * r1976 4 files : Moved GenerateFlatgrass, GenerateEmpty, and GenerateOcean functionality out of RealisticMapGen into FlatMapGen.
08:50 < Grum> Also, I still agree the networkcode is atrocious and horrible and inefficient
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08:56 < dx> Grum: eh, some people would like to sniff packets instead of having to use proxies to help with the development of their clients / servers, but meh
08:57 < Grum> they can?
08:57 < Grum> just enjoy decoding them
08:57 < dx> i said would like
08:57 < dx> i'm not sure if anyone bothered :D
08:57 < dx> Grum: but that's why i said just turn off encryption
08:58 < Grum> why would we ever add that option?
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08:58 < Grum> that will only get people to turn it off and suddenly there is MITM again
08:58 < dx> Grum: er.. isn't that what happens with offline mode?
08:58 < dx> (but i might be misinformed)
08:59 < Grum> no idea tbh, could be, but i dont really care for offline mode
08:59 <+AndrewPH> was mitm a gigantic issue?
08:59 <+AndrewPH> as in, was it happening a lot
08:59 <+AndrewPH> (genuine curiosity)
08:59 < dx> there's no way to know that lol
08:59 <+AndrewPH> well, people can report it to other people
09:00 <+AndrewPH> word of mouth
09:00 < Grum> AndrewPH: yes
09:00 < Grum> there were super easy tools out there which would abuse it
09:00 < Grum> just lure an admin of a server to your 'mc server' and presto, you had control over the server he was admin on
09:00 < dx> oh right, those
09:00 <+AndrewPH> ah
09:00 <+AndrewPH> yeah i could see that being a big issue.
09:01 < Grum> for me there was another one
09:01 < Grum> people pretending to be me doing promises somewhere
09:01 < Grum> and i got plenty of dubious 'please join this server, something is wrong' offers
09:01 <+AndrewPH> Q: is udp transmission of movement and any other somewhat trivial packets that are sent back and forth a lot on the roadmap?
09:02 < ShaRose> welcome to like
09:02 < ShaRose> 6 months ago
09:02 < dx> Grum: huh? that's either offline mode or that one massive mojang account vulnerability
09:02 < ShaRose> Grum can attest that I had pestered the shit out of him to move the protocol to udp a long time ago
09:02 < ShaRose> tl;dr no
09:03 < dx> just write a proxy and have your players use that instead
09:03 < ShaRose> anyways
09:03 < ShaRose> I just spent 3 hours trying to fix stuff
09:03 < ShaRose> it's 4:33 am now
09:03 < ShaRose> I'm off to bed
09:03 <+AndrewPH> ShaRose: the entire protocol or just small-but-happens-tons packets?
09:03 < dx> 4:33 am? what?!
09:03 < ShaRose> newfoundland daylight time
09:03 < dx> it's 4:03 am here
09:03 < ShaRose> -3:30
09:03 <+AndrewPH> also it's only undernoon here
09:04 < dx> ShaRose: oh that makes sense
09:04 <+AndrewPH> slept from like 3:30 to 10
09:04 < dx> timezones with :30 are rare
09:04 <+AndrewPH> so i'm going to read and play games until 3ish
09:04 < dx> i was thinking my ntpd died
09:04 < ShaRose> AndrewPH and I said the whole thing, mixing udp and tcp CAN have issues unless you specifically account for them
09:05 <+AndrewPH> yeah, movement alone probably wouldn't be /too/ difficult to implement
09:05 <+AndrewPH> I can understand not wanting to do it, though
09:05 < dx> but adding udp is creating issues for the sake of improving latency
09:08 < dx> personally i don't care, lag is a gameplay element :D
09:09 < dx> if you guys really believe it could be useful
09:09 < dx> 04:02 < dx> just write a proxy and have your players use that instead
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09:10 < Grum> AndrewPH: you cannot have both UDP and TCP at the same time
09:10 < Grum> at least not on the same point
09:10 < Grum> splitting that up makes a hell for serverowners/firewalls/whatever
09:10 < Grum> erm at the same port
09:11 < dx> Grum: *cough* query *cough*
09:11 <+AndrewPH> Grum: well, "hell", until it's realized that you just have to forward 2 ports instead of 1. I'd say that, relative to adding it in, server owners don't have to do much
09:11 < dx> minecraft listens TCP 25565, query listens UDP 25565 by default
09:11 < Grum> yeah, that is considered hell for 10million people
09:11 < Grum> without any benefit
09:12 < Grum> dx: yeah, guess who added that
09:12 < Grum> *NOT ME*
09:12 < dx> lol
09:12 < jast> there is no trouble at all having services with the same port number on both TCP and UDP
09:12 <+AndrewPH> source engine pretty much requires you to forward, what was it, 3 or 4 ports for full server workage
09:12 < Grum> jast: except that there is
09:12 < jast> every standards-compliant DNS server does it
09:12 < Grum> because the tcp retry mechanism will let udp packets go 'poofsies'
09:12 < Grum> yeah
09:12 < Grum> and the whole point about udp is that you 'do not give a fuck'
09:12 < Grum> but you kinda do for mc data
09:13 < dx> i.. don't understand this
09:13 < dx> they are processed separately
09:13 < jast> design proper protocol   Problem Solved (tm)
09:13 <+AndrewPH> movement is sent often enough that if one or two packets go "poof" it doesn't really matter.
09:13 < Grum> especially with the given state of the protocol
09:13 < Grum> jast: yeah lol i agree
09:13 < Grum> AndrewPH: you'd be surprised
09:13 <+AndrewPH> Grum: I guess I would be
09:13 < dx> they are different parts of the operating system network stack
09:13 < dx> ¯\(°_o)/¯ 
09:13 <+AndrewPH> I haven't done any work with the current version of minecraft, besides hosting
09:14 < Grum> AndrewPH: we once upon a time halfed the frequency of a certain packet that was getting spammed
09:14 < Grum> result? people dying all over the place
09:14 < jast> dying is fun
09:14 < dx> ^
09:14 < Grum> we were like .. riiiiiiight ... that we wont touch again >.>
09:14 < dx> each new version of minecraft is more difficult, so that seems like a fitting change
09:14 < dx> (lol)
09:14 < jast> oh, wait, that's different from dyeing, isn't it
09:15 < dx> i think the verb for using dyes is dying too
09:15 <+AndrewPH> Grum: what about a server-set rate that the client would obey, so that certain servers can have a lower rate, while servers that need it can have a higher rate?
09:15 <+AndrewPH> but i complicate things
09:15 < jast> not according to my dictionary
09:15 < dx> nevermind then
09:16 < Grum> AndrewPH: all things that with the current state of the code are ... next to impossible to implement
09:16 <+AndrewPH> I should probably finish packing my wii and reading
09:16 <+AndrewPH> Grum: of course :( 
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09:16  * dx pats Grum
09:16 < dx> i'm sorry you have to deal with this
09:16 <+AndrewPH> on a side note, I was playing the xbox360 version. those guys did a great job optimizing it to run on das xbox.
09:17 < dx> xbox360 mc cheats
09:17 < dx> we don't compare it with the pc one
09:17 < Grum> i mean, cut away enough contraints and you can do anything
09:17 <+AndrewPH> dx: I wasn't comparing it to the pc one
09:17 < Grum> 512x512map? done!
09:17 <+AndrewPH> I was saying it ran great :D
09:17 < Grum> oh now we can compress stuff better? done
09:18 < dx> oh now we can use pbunny chunk storage? done
09:18 < jast> thanks to the power of c+++
09:18 <+AndrewPH> c++++
09:18 <+AndrewPH> *
09:19 < dx> oh you guys banned him already
09:19 < dx> :(
09:19 < dx> now this channel is going to make too much sense
09:19 < Grum> lol
09:19 < Grum> you should macro that more
09:22 < dx> we should do something special so we don't forget him after this tragic death
09:22 < dx> like modifying bukkit's worldborder to generate chunks up to 5000x5000 and keep every single one loaded in memory
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09:24 < dx> or maybe a command aliasing tool that uses syntax like C macros, #define torch(x, y) /give 50 y
09:26 < dx> i'm not sure why i used (x, y)
09:26 < Grum> seems right
09:27 < Grum> should be y*2 though
09:27 < Grum> and then not put ()'s around the y
09:27 < Grum> because 'that is not a mistake waiting to happen'
09:28 < dx> ugh don't remind me of that stuff
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09:35 < Grum> dx: you are just jealous because pbunny was ahead of the pack
09:35 < dx> lol
09:35 < luntik13> ++
09:36 < luntik13> where is he btw?
09:36 < dx> luntik13: banned :(
09:36 < luntik13> omg
09:36 < luntik13> why?
09:36 < dx> gee i wonder
09:36 < dx> anyway
09:37 < dx> Grum: could you explain a bit what kind of issues you found when listening to the same port number in both tcp and udp? i can't find anything about it in google
09:37 < Grum> its not about listening
09:37 < Grum> it works fine
09:37 < Grum> but due to the nature of how tcp works you cannot reliably communicate UDP on the same port
09:37 < Grum> which sortof is the whole idea about UDP
09:38 < Grum> but it kinda defeats the purpose if you are moving part of the protocol over from TCP to UDP
09:38 < dx> i don't see how they can interfere with each other
09:41 < Grum> you just get more packetloss on udp because its still using the same underlying protocol
09:42 < dx> oh, that's what you meant?
09:42 < Grum> it 'will work' it will just make the UDP worse
09:42 < dx> i think nobody would even suggest using a protocol designed for tcp with udp and expect an improvement
09:42 < Grum> people do :/
09:43 < dx> geez.
09:43 < dx> i was expecting you to say that from the massive minecraft userbase, some admins found issues with conflicts between the mc protocol in tcp 25565 and the query protocol in udp 25565 too
09:44 < dx> ...you did imply that was a bad idea, though
09:44 < Grum> i mean, for minecraft we have the need to have reliable communications for parts of our data
09:44 < Grum> tcp is quite suitable for that
09:44 < Grum> if you want to build that in UDP you are going to have to mimic tcp
09:44 < dx> yes, pretty much
09:44 < Grum> 1) lots of work, 2) lots of pain, 3) lots of trial and error before getting it right
09:44 < Grum> so then people suggested: oh then why not just use udp for the 'not so important things'
09:45 < dx> it's standard practice for game protocol development to reimplement *parts* of UDP to get better handling of latency
09:45 < dx> i know it's a pain in the ass
09:45 < dx> but if you get it right, it's worth it
09:45 < dx> err *parts of TCP
09:46 < Grum> yeah but the investment to get it is just not worth it
09:46 < dx> which is why i was telling the people who suggested that to make a proxy that makes the client connect to localhost:25565 tcp, the proxy connects to the other proxy on the server side using UDP, and the server side proxy would connect to localhost:25565 TCP
09:46 < jast> for game protocols you typically don't need many of the TCP features
09:46 < Grum> i mean, the only benefit we get is possibly halving the latency
09:47 < dx> it's not just latency
09:47 < Grum> its exclusively latency?
09:47 < Grum> maybe a tiny little bit of traffic
09:47 < dx> packet loss handling can be improved a lot
09:47 < dx> lose a single packet in tcp, get a shitton of crap you don't care about retransmitted
09:48 < dx> you'll need retransmission of stuff, but not everything has the same priority, and not everything needs to be in order
09:48 < Grum> unless you care for the packet
09:48 < jast> more relevantly, your application doesn't see the later packets until the lost packet has been received
09:48 < Grum> which in 95% of the traffic in MC you kinda do ;)
09:48 < dx> you care about packets differently
09:49 < jast> so a single packet getting lost delays everything else, too
09:49 < Grum> anyways, feel free to make an implementation i can use
09:49 < dx> i can wait for a chunk to load, i'd rather see the mob walking towards me
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09:49 < jast> with a suitable UDP-based protocol that's not necessary
09:49 < jast> of course, an all new protocol means extensive code changes... :)
09:49 < dx> yep
09:50 < dx> and i don't think mojang can legally accept patches from decompiled MCP code :D
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09:50 < Grum> you can make me a clean extremely well tested library i can use
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09:50 < Grum> and give a reference implementation in decompiled MCP code
09:50 < dx> sounds good
09:50 < jast> I'll pass :}
09:51 < Grum> i'd love to do it but ... i have other yaks to shave
09:51 < dx> i'd rather write a proxy in something that isn't java, at least for a first PoC
09:52 < luntik13> java sucks
09:52 < Grum> obviously it sucks, every language sucks
09:52 < luntik13> mojang is so wrong
09:53 < dx> lol
09:53 < Grum> we are! but we're still right enough that >25 million buy our stuffs ;)
09:53  * Thinkofdeath grabs popcorn
09:53 < dx> let's not talk about this, okay? it's boring
09:53 < dx> shut up Thinkofdeath
09:53 < Thinkofdeath> :(
09:53 < dx> ..wait you didn't say anything
09:53 < dx> damn
09:54 < dx> Thinkofdeath: i used to grab popcorn for this stuff, but it's always the same shit, repeating
09:54 < Grum> yeah
09:54 < Grum> and the people starting the argument always fail in giving proper arguments :p
09:54 < Thinkofdeath> It gave me something to read when I was bored
09:55 < luntik13> somebody call pbunny.. he is good in explaining java problems
09:55 < dx> lol
09:55 < Grum> yeah
09:56 < Grum> he also had such a realistic view on the world, keep everything in 256GB of ram and emulate all of the worlds in just 32cpus
09:56 < luntik13> Grum can you unban him?
09:56 < Grum> nope
09:56 < Grum> he was very entertaining
09:57 < dx> too entertaining
09:57 <+ammar2> yeah, it was a fun novelty at first.
09:57 < dx> so entertaining that we found we didn't have enough motivation to do anything else in our lives, because nothing else was as entertaining as pbunny
09:57 < dx> :(
09:58 < Thinkofdeath> Still want to see his 'finished' server though
09:58 < Thinkofdeath> When/If it happens
09:59 < Grum> the real issue comes in when he starts to do actual expensive stuff on the server
10:00 < Grum> just running around in the world, placing blocks, crafting, cooking items is ... cheap
10:00 < dx> just call it a "creative" server and only implement block place and remove
10:01 < Grum> wait, minecraft classic~!
10:02 < Thinkofdeath> Lighting is the thing I haven't figured out yet otherwise I could do the creative server parts :)
10:02 < dx> yeah.. creative and fixed size world, sounds like classic
10:02 < SinZ> Fixed sized worlds are nice
10:02 < Grum> yeah lighting is a bitch
10:02 < jast> you know what else is cheap? simulating AI and custom mob reproduction... and redstone, of course
10:02 < Grum> feel free to write a clean tested library for that too! ;)
10:02 < Grum> yup :P
10:02 < Grum> ai/pathing .. cheap as hell
10:03 < jast> pathing is basically free
10:03 < jast> just do random walks. done!
10:03 < SinZ> And to follow players without walking into traps?
10:03 < jast> (ignore terrain)
10:03 < dx> you can turn any complex algorithm into something extremely cheap by outsourcing it
10:04 < jast> yeah, let google worry about it
10:04 < dx> or even better, sending it to the cloud
10:04 < luntik13> lol
10:04 < dx> let's run a redstone server in amazon ec2
10:04 < SinZ> Grum: can we have a launcher changelog site?
10:04 < jast> you know what else is cheap? making an algorithm distributed
10:04 < dx> jast: :D
10:04 < jast> network is essentially just as fast as the memory bus
10:04 < dx> of course
10:07 < Grum> SinZ: no
10:07 < SinZ> awww
10:07 < dx> the launcher is designed to be a sneaky motherfucker with its updates
10:07 < Grum> yup :p
10:07 < Grum> we want to update whenever the fuck we want
10:08 < Grum> also not obfuscated ... so erm ...
10:08 < dx> ..not obfuscated?
10:08 < dx> what
10:08 < SinZ> the launcher isn't obfuscated.
10:08 < dx> mojang can't release stuff that isn't obfucsated, that would make too much sense
10:08 < dx> *obfuscated
10:08 < SinZ> the old launcher never was either
10:09 < Grum> it gets a run through the obfuscator
10:09 < Grum> but just to remove unused code
10:09 < Grum> (we have some debugging stuff in it locally)
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10:13 < SinZ> Grum: how is the new launcher going to support the pre 13w16a versions that still expect to be wrapped in an applet?
10:13 < Grum> do we?
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10:14 < dx> i'm not good at tracking which week of the year it is
10:15 < SinZ> Grum: I count 1.5.1 and 1.5.2 as pre 13w16a
10:15 < Grum> dx: neither are we, we google for it every week ;)
10:15 < Grum> SinZ: we dont plan to so much for that tbh
10:15 < Grum> what is in there was just a test
10:15 < Grum> we might purge it
10:15 < dx> haha
10:15 < Grum> we might pursue it
10:15 < Grum> there are plenty of issues with it right now
10:17 < dx> oh no some tweet says that some company called "mojang" stole the money i paid to notch for minecraft
10:17 < Grum> so true
10:17 < Grum> and then we gave him the money
10:17 < Grum> 'really'
10:18 < SinZ> didn't dinnerbro tweet about how this mythical launcher can run any version of MC
10:18 < Grum> it can theoretically
10:18 < Grum> but there are issues
10:18 < Grum> 1) icon is broken
10:18 < Grum> 2) old versions have no concept of 'different workdir'
10:18 < SinZ> No assets get loaded
10:18 < SinZ> and the workdir issue
10:18 < Grum> 3) old versions have no concept of proxy
10:19 < Grum> SinZ: assets get loaded 'like normal'
10:19 < Grum> aka: they get downloaded during the game
10:19 < SinZ> They don't for my client
10:19 < SinZ> with the new launcher anyway
10:19 < Grum> they do
10:19 < Grum> it even creates a resources dir :(
10:20 < Grum> accidentally also the reason we store the new assets in assets not resources ;)
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11:20 < Not-003> [fCraft] fragmer * r1977 4 files : Converting MapGeneratorArgs fields to properties, fixing comment typos, implementing new RealisticMapGenState members.
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11:49 < AnotherOne> hello
11:57 < nastyCreeper> hi
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13:27 < Not-003> [wiki] Edit by Pbunny to Server List -> http://tinyurl.com/q4v2hgw
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13:35 <+pdelvo> pbunny even has written his own license
13:38 <+pdelvo> http://nessus.lv/nessusms :D
13:41 < TobiX> And reused a software project name...
13:41 < jast> items don't despawn
13:41  * jast drops two double chests worth of cobblestone
13:43 <+ammar2> Multiplayer first came only as client-to-client connection ("LAN"), so it used the same slow and inefficient language.
13:43 <+ammar2> hahaha
13:43 < nastyCreeper> lol
13:46 < TobiX> Someone did his history lessons...
13:47 < dav1d> ,k
13:47 < dav1d> lol
13:47 < dav1d> Async Networking/Posix Threads
13:47 < dav1d> since when asynv
13:47 < dav1d> *async
13:48 -!- Stormx2 [~Stormx2@cpc18-sotn9-2-0-cust33.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #mcdevs
13:49 < dav1d> this homepage should be a bad joke
13:49 < dav1d> but unfortunatly it isn't
13:49 < dav1d> (not even speaking of the design)
13:50 < dav1d> and the broken JS
13:50 < dav1d> <script src="//ajax.googleapis.com/ajax/libs/jquery/2.0.0/jquery.min.js">
13:50 < dav1d> nastyCreeper: seems like you missed a http somewhere
13:52 < Thinkofdeath> The // means use http or https depending on what was used for the main page (I think)
13:52 <+pdelvo> Mybe he is not yet finished with reading the jquery source code
13:52 < dav1d> 2lol
13:52 < dav1d> also depending on a remotly hosted js isn't the best thing...
13:53 < dav1d> Thinkofdeath: would be also broken
13:54 <+pdelvo> what happens when google work together with the government and start serving spying software hidden in their jquery files
13:54 < dav1d> exactly
13:55 < dav1d> also the google servers aren't audited yet
13:55 < jast> // denotes a protocol-relative URL. it's perfectly legal.
13:56 < dav1d> well in this case it doesn't make a difference, google supports both
13:57 < Thinkofdeath> Don't browsers show a warning when you mix secure and unsecure content?
13:57 < jast> some of them do
13:58 < dav1d> well if you have a secure website which loads unsecure content
13:59 <+pdelvo> isnt google always "unsecure" content?
14:00 < jast> remember that google isn't Evil
14:00 < jast> (for the precise definition of Evil, refer to the current version of google's marketing glossary)
14:01 <+pdelvo> I think pbunny is pranking us
14:01 <+pdelvo> Im pretty sure he is not hosting that side on a msdos 6.22 machine
14:01 <+ammar2> any respectable browser warns on loading unsecure conent on a secure connection
14:02 <+pdelvo> Server: WEBSERV.EXE 1.0.1 (MSDOS/6.22)
14:02 < Not-003> [wiki] Edit by Thinkofdeath to Server List -> http://tinyurl.com/punydx4
14:02 < jast> pdelvo: I dunno... the website looks ancient enough
14:03 <+pdelvo> but he would have to read the ms dos source code too
14:03 < jast> less of a task than reading the source code for windows or linux
14:04 <+ammar2> the last two features on his page are killing me
14:04 <+ammar2> Players will have dreams when they sleep at bed. That will mean that their body will be seen on bed, however, they will perceive a temporary single-mode world with all kinds of bizarre events (like pigs flying). In a dream, everything is possible. If sleeping player's body is killed, he dies, gets thrown out of the sleep and is asked to respawn. If he dies in his sleep, he simply wakes up. 
14:04 <+ammar2> Sleeping will be a necessity, so players will have to find a safe place for it.
14:05 < jast> nessus.lv has invalid contact data filed with the registry
14:05 < nastyCreeper> [14:52] <Thinkofdeath> The // means use http or https depending on what was used for the main page (I think)
14:05 < nastyCreeper> right
14:05 < jast> someone could probably get the domain dropped by complaining
14:06 < nastyCreeper> dav1d: though i'm not pbunny (just to remind you), http://encosia.com/3-reasons-why-you-should-let-google-host-jquery-for-you/
14:06 < dav1d> ^ lol
14:06 < jast> the main reason to let google host it: google can better collect data about your visitors
14:07 < dav1d> so I believe every random blogpost, maybe I should make a blog
14:07 < nastyCreeper> jast: well that's visitors' problems
14:07 < nastyCreeper> :]
14:07 < Not-003> [wiki] Edit by Thinkofdeath to Server List -> http://tinyurl.com/qer8hs8
14:07 < jast> dav1d: fact: making a blog is required for every human being. I know this because I read it on a blog.
14:08 < dav1d> jast: makes sense
14:08 < jast> nastyCreeper: not a problem as such... I just leave the site and never come back
14:08 < nastyCreeper> jast: you actually inspect the source prior to loading it into html engine?
14:08 < dav1d> fortunatly I block by default every content which doesn't belong to the domain
14:08 < jast> no
14:08 < jast> NoScript does that for me
14:08 < dav1d> ^
14:09 < jast> I wish noscript could maintain a separate whitelist by host, and perhaps even transparently replace requests to these kinds of CDNs (I believe there's a separate extension for that already)
14:10 < dav1d> jast: firefox user?
14:10 < jast> yep
14:10 < dav1d> I think NotScripts (the chromium extension) can do it, but I am not 100% certain about that
14:11 < nastyCreeper> dav1d: its funny how you use google's product to avoid being spied by google
14:11 < jast> does chromium allow proper cookie management by now?
14:11 < jast> chromium is open source
14:11 < dav1d> jast: there is an extension :P
14:11 < jast> last time I checked, chromium lacked a complete enough cookies API to allow for a decent extension
14:11 < nastyCreeper> jast: open source doesn't mean anything to him. he can't read it
14:11 < nastyCreeper> same for 99% of people
14:11 < dav1d> jast: this is so not pbunny
14:11 < Not-003> [wiki] Edit by Thinkofdeath to Server List -> http://tinyurl.com/pe9h4ah
14:12 < dav1d> funny how I began to write an offscreen rendering framework based on chromium
14:12 -!- TomyLobo [~TomyLobo@91-66-112-147-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #mcdevs
14:12 <+ammar2> jast: they improved it a fair bit, even some in built editing without extensions from the inspect element toolbar thing
14:12 < Calinou> <jast> does chromium allow proper cookie management by now?
14:12 < Calinou> ye
14:12 < Calinou> disable third party cookies, ???, PROFIT
14:13 <+ammar2> you can't add new cookies with the built in one but the extensions cover that
14:13 < Calinou> (debt for google)
14:13 < jast> third party cookies are the least of what I want to filter
14:14 < jast> I want to be able to whitelist cookie by name
14:14 < dav1d> nastyCreeper: btw. where is your 3rd nick? well unnick(ed)
14:14 < jast> *cookies
14:14 < dav1d> jast: domainname?
14:14 < nastyCreeper> dav1d: my 3rd nick is dav1d
14:14 < jast> domain name and cookie name
14:15 <+ammar2> jast: you can do that with the "edit this cookie" extension
14:15 < jast> if I edit a cookie, it's already there ;P
14:16 < dav1d> ammar2: whitelist?
14:16 < dav1d> I see no whitelist
14:16 <+ammar2> yup, "protected cookies"
14:16 < dav1d> ah yeah found it
14:17 < dav1d> in options
14:17 < dav1d> oh wait
14:17 < dav1d> that's a blacklist
14:17 < jast> well, I originally switched back to firefox from chromium because the latter ate even more RAM and I didn't have enough for normal usage
14:18 <+ammar2> yeah chrome definetly eats up a bit too much ram for comfort
14:18 < dav1d> really? :O
14:18 < dav1d> chromium runs smoother than firefox on my laptop (512mb ram total)
14:18 < dav1d> cpu, basically not existent :P
14:21 < jast> I had serious issues with 1 GB RAM and it wasn' too enjoyable with 2 GB either
14:21  * nastyCreeper thought 4GB or less of RAM is think of the past
14:21 < nastyCreeper> thing
14:23  * Calinou has 8GB
14:23 < Calinou> it's not like it's insanely expensive
14:23  * dx has 256GB
14:23 < dx> because it's really easy to get 256gb nowadays
14:23  * nastyCreeper 32GB
14:23 < nastyCreeper> dx: lol
14:24 < TobiX> 4GB on all systems currently. (Well, 8GB on work laptop)
14:24 < TobiX> But my systems are kinda old...
14:24 < dav1d> I can even barely fill 4gb of my 8
14:25 < nastyCreeper> doesn't java alone take 4gb right from the start?
14:25 < dav1d> also only because thunderbird loves ram
14:25 <+pdelvo> 16gb client, 64gb gameserver, 2gb webserver
14:25 < nastyCreeper> how do you run java at all?
14:25 < dav1d> lol
14:25 < dav1d> eclipse, idea, minecraft server, minecraft client all run fine together with 4gb ram
14:26 <+pdelvo> the mc server that runs on that gameserver consumes about ~10gb of ram
14:26 <+ammar2> why do you run eclipse and idea together
14:26 <+ammar2> you sick man
14:26 < dav1d> pdelvo: gameserver
14:27 < dav1d> ammar2: python and java :P
14:27 <+ammar2> you use eclipse for java?
14:27 < dav1d> (+kdevelop) but kdevelop is ram friendly
14:27 < dav1d> ammar2: no idea
14:27 < TobiX> IDEA for work, Eclipse for giggles?
14:27 < dav1d> eclipse with pydev
14:27 <+ammar2> dav1d: community version of idea?
14:28 < dav1d> used it for c a while ago but kdevelop is just better
14:28 < dav1d> ammar2: yeah
14:28 < TobiX> QtDevelop is quite nice for C++
14:28 <+Fador> got IDEA for 50 EUR when it was -75% =b
14:28 < dav1d> thought of getting the other, but I only use it for university
14:28 < TobiX> Err, QtCreator
14:28 < dav1d> kdevelop is amazing for c, c++
14:29 < dav1d> (if it only had D support)
14:30 <+ammar2> Fador: got it for free for an open source project :3
14:30 <+Fador> ammar2 ;)
14:30 < Calinou> hello idea/intellij trolls
14:30 < Calinou> WINDOWS 8 IS AWESOME!!!!!
14:31 < dx> i have no idea what you guys are talking about
14:31 -!- Calinou [~Calinou@unaffiliated/calinou] has quit [Quit: Excess Flood]
14:31 < dx> are those some bloated text editors or what?
14:31 <+ammar2> yes, very bloated
14:31 < dx> sounds fun
14:32 <+ammar2> they have things like "auto completion" and "automated refactoring", making programmers lazy.
14:32 < dx> lol
14:32 < dx> "automated refactoring" sounds interesting
14:33 -!- eddyb [~eddy@unaffiliated/eddyb] has joined #mcdevs
14:34 < jast> "automated refactoring" basically means "break dynamic code"
14:36 < dx> i was hoping it'd be "automated search and replace with regexps"
14:36 < dx> but that's fine too
14:37 < jast> automated search and replace with regexps is more like "break non-dynamic code along with dynamic code"
14:38 < dx> yeah, i never liked how the "automated" part sounds anyway
14:39 < jast> in reasonably static languages it's perfectly doable
14:39 < dx> indeed, in those the compiler probably can understand what's happening
14:39 < dx> probably.
14:44 < TobiX> jast: Refactoring in Eclipse works exactly that way in Java code, Eclipse uses its own Java compiler for code analysis...
14:46  * Stormx2 uses PyCharm and really enjoys it
14:46 < Stormx2> pure magic to me
14:49 < Stormx2> Also I think pbunny is telepathically controlling you, nastyCreeper
14:49 < nastyCreeper> :/
14:50 < dx> oh btw
14:50 < dx> -!- luntik13 [~Sashka@m77-219-2-97.cust.tele2.lv] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
14:50 < dav1d> I think he is schizophrenic
14:50 < dx> pbunny as fuck
14:50 < dav1d> as unnicked217, nastyCreeper and luntik13
14:50 < dx> i should find out what country is .lv
14:50 < nastyCreeper> latvia?
14:50 < dav1d> you wanna report domains? lol
14:50 < dx> nah
14:51 < dx> i just never saw it before
14:51 < dx> oh, another eastern european thing
14:51 < dav1d> (would be a dick move, even though it is pbunny)
14:52 < dx> uhh... how do you 'report' a domain?
14:52 < Stormx2> In many ways nastyCreeper trying as hard as possible to not sound like pbunny solves many of the problems we had with pbunny
14:52 < dx> lol
14:52 < Stormx2> i.e. he can't come off too indignant about java's supposed failings
14:52 < Stormx2> nor criticise OO/encapsulation/various standard software engineering things too much
14:53 < Stormx2> for fear of detection
14:53 < dx> i wanted to pull a pbunny about java a bit ago
14:53 < nastyCreeper> java is a quintessence of failing
14:53 < Stormx2> there it is.
14:53 < nastyCreeper> :)
14:53 < dx> what i really really don't like about java is being forced to use IDEs
14:53 < dav1d> dx: well not sure about lativa but e.g. de domains need a correct dns whois
14:53 < Stormx2> You're not forced are you?
14:53 < dx> nah you aren't, i know that now
14:53 < dx> but everybody told me that there was no way to code java without an ide
14:53 < Stormx2> I've written java in gedit before. It's possible, just really fucking annoying.
14:54  * dav1d is doing java right now!
14:54 < dx> but maven <3
14:54 < dx> i seriously love maven so much
14:54 < dx> it looks like a normal make!
14:54 < dav1d> is there a size_t in java?^^
14:55 < nastyCreeper> ide is to java like glasses are to very blind man
14:55 < dav1d> probably not
14:55 < nastyCreeper> it can still walk without them, but will ahve to touch everything with a stick or something long
14:55 < dx> eh
14:55 < dx> java isn't blind, it's fat
14:55 < dx> that's all
14:56 < nastyCreeper> dx: then ide is a wheelchair for fat people
14:56 < nastyCreeper> true, too
14:56 < dx> lol
14:56 < nastyCreeper> i can just code in nano in all cases
14:56 < dx> lol nano
14:56 < nastyCreeper> in worst case - vi
14:56 < nastyCreeper> vim *
14:56 < dav1d> lol nano
14:57 < dx> i was assuming you weren't pbunny and i still won't assume that
14:57 < dav1d> nano is a great editor but for coding, I oculdn't do that
14:57 < dx> but i don't like you already :3
14:57 < dav1d> dx: lol
14:57  * dx totally not a fanboy
14:57 < nastyCreeper> dx: why don't you like pbunny?
14:57 < dx> he's not sexy enough
14:57 < nastyCreeper> dav1d: that's because you are used to gui-style of ide
14:58 < dav1d> nastyCreeper: why do you think I am?
14:58 < nastyCreeper> mousewheel scrolling, copy-pastes, tabs
14:58 < dav1d> this makes no sense
14:58 < dav1d> you make no sense
14:58 < nastyCreeper> dav1d: you think like gui user
14:58 < dav1d> why do you know how I am thinking
14:58 < dav1d> I don't think you know how I am thinking
14:58 < nastyCreeper> dav1d: because you dump your thoughts into irc
14:58 < dav1d> I think you make false assumptions
14:59 < dav1d> I also think you shouldn't think so much
15:02 < Stormx2> <nastyCreeper> dx: why don't you like pbunny?
15:02 < Stormx2> don't be so self-conscious
15:02 < dx> oh, about that
15:02 < dx> i never said i disliked pbunny :P
15:03 <+md_5> Pbunny was fun
15:03 < dav1d> md_5: why was?
15:03 <+md_5> But the fact he defended his lies
15:03 < dav1d> md_5: he still has 3 nicks in here
15:03 <+md_5> Was too much for me
15:03 <+md_5> David? Hm? How can you tell
15:03 < dx> pbunny wouldn't die even if we killed him
15:03 < Stormx2> md_5, nastyCreeper is pbunny
15:03 <+md_5> We had that theory
15:04 < nastyCreeper> Stormx2 is pbunny!
15:04 <+md_5> Is it confirmed
15:04 < dav1d> md_5: yes
15:04 < Stormx2> md_5, either confirmed, or there's another person in the world too similar to pbunny for my liking
15:04 < nastyCreeper> md_5: the only pbunnyish thing about me is that i joined after he was banned
15:04 < dav1d> md_5: also unnicked217 and some other guy
15:04 <+md_5> Well the java ide joke
15:04 < dav1d> Stormx2: which accidently joined 2mins after the other guy was banned
15:05 < nastyCreeper> md_5: there's entire wikipedia page dedicated to hating java
15:05 < dx> wikipedia wot
15:05 < nastyCreeper> does it mean wikipedia is being ran by pbunnies?
15:05 < dav1d> oh dear
15:05 < dav1d> sadimusi: ?
15:05 < nastyCreeper> dx: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Java
15:05 < dx> lol
15:05 < nastyCreeper> dx: so, java is that bad.
15:05 < dx> wikipedia doesn't have original research
15:05  * nastyCreeper is php user
15:06  * md_5 pokes sadimusi with a sharpened glass shard
15:06 < Stormx2> "Performance of JIT compilers relative to native compilers has in some optimized tests been shown to be quite similar.[25][26][27]"
15:06 < Stormx2> That's your main complaint isn't it? The speed of the jvm?
15:06 < dx> Stormx2: nah that's pbunny's main complaint, nastyCreeper is totally not him
15:06 < nastyCreeper> Stormx2: i haven't complained yet
15:06 < nastyCreeper> dx: i think he "tested" me
15:07 < nastyCreeper> its a known way to bring context of conversation with X to Y to determine if Y is X
15:07 < dav1d> I think you're schizophrenic
15:07 < nastyCreeper> i think you are young :)
15:08 < Stormx2> nastyCreeper, what's your in-game name?
15:08 < nastyCreeper> Stormx2: what is yours?
15:08 < Stormx2> barneygale
15:08 < Stormx2> also barneybot
15:08 < Stormx2> what about you?
15:08 < nastyCreeper> barneycreeper
15:08 < dav1d> ahaha! man did we laugh
15:09 < dx> lol.
15:09 < Stormx2> nastyCreeper, what reason do you have to hide it?
15:09 <+pdelvo> @nastyCreeper: http://me.veekun.com/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/
15:09 <+md_5> 3:09] <CafeBabe> The account "barneycreeper" is not a premium Minecraft account!
15:09 < Stormx2> http://phpsadness.com/ is another good one
15:10 < dav1d> why are we bashing php now?
15:10 < dx> pdelvo: oh dude... i was offered a job in PHP for one of the biggest websites in my country, some sort of reddit equivalent.
15:10 < dav1d> because some troll said he uses php?
15:10 < dx> pdelvo: i can't refuse it, so how do i avoid killing myself?
15:10 < nastyCreeper> md_5: it kinda was a joke
15:11 < dx> nastyCreeper: so tell us the real one
15:11 < Stormx2> aye
15:11 < nastyCreeper> dx: will you torture me?
15:11 < dx> nastyCreeper: only if you're into that, but i usually don't torture people, so don't be afraid
15:12 < nastyCreeper> dx: you will have to torture it out from me to get it
15:12 < nastyCreeper> i'm that serious
15:12 < Stormx2> I can't think of a reason why you wouldn't want your minecraft account to be known
15:12 < dx> ^
15:12 < Stormx2> Well, I can
15:12 < nastyCreeper> Stormx2: my skin isn't pretty
15:12 < Stormx2> nastyCreeper, like i give a hoot
15:12 < dav1d> yeah it's a pedobear
15:12 < dx> i think my skin is a wooden door
15:12 < dav1d> the reason you got banned from #minecraft
15:12 < nastyCreeper> wrong
15:12 < Stormx2> Uhg
15:12 < dx> dav1d: the plot thickens
15:13 < Stormx2> I'm going to ping sadimusi later
15:13 < nastyCreeper> dav1d: they actually ban pedobears?
15:13 < nastyCreeper> its racism
15:13 < dx> anyway
15:13 < dx> do we care? yes/no
15:13 < dav1d> y u no work ignore
15:13 < Stormx2> I find it laughable that despite being known principally for your nerdrage about java and computer science in this channel, you come back on an alt and don't even have the strength of mind to PRETEND to have sensible opinions
15:14 < Stormx2> It would be funny if it wasn't pretty weird
15:14 -!- Zachoz is now known as Zachoz|Away
15:14 <+md_5> Night guys
15:14 < Stormx2> At least /attempt/ to pretend not to be you.
15:14 < nastyCreeper> Stormx2: i find it laughable you actually believe you can reveal the fact that exists only in your mind
15:14 < dx> so is it funny or not?
15:14 < dav1d> good night md_5 
15:14 < nastyCreeper> i'm not pbunny, so you can't prove it unless you fake it well enough
15:14 < dx> i really don't know if i should laugh, help me Stormx2
15:15 < dav1d> y u no work ternary :(
15:15 < dav1d> ret == null ? default_ : ret
15:15 < dav1d> ^ java
15:15 < dx> dav1d: what the fuck does your /ignore have a scripting lang-
15:15 < dx> oh
15:15 < dav1d> dx: mh?
15:15 < dx> nevermind :P
15:15 < dav1d> actually I messed up the syntax
15:15 < dav1d> it's /ignore add :P
15:16 < Stormx2> nastyCreeper, I don't know why you bother hanging out in a channel where you find no value in anyone else's opinion
15:16 < nastyCreeper> Stormx2: i can ask you the same
15:16 < dx> what
15:16 < Stormx2> nastyCreeper, I value many peoples opinions in here
15:16 < nastyCreeper> so do i
15:16 < Stormx2> What are you talking about? This channel taught me minecraft.
15:16 < nastyCreeper> minecraft taught me this channel.
15:16 < Stormx2> That doesn't even make sense..
15:17 < nastyCreeper> Stormx2: think big endian
15:17 -!- Rudench [shnaw@irc.minecraft.org] has joined #mcdevs
15:17 < Stormx2> nastyCreeper, what?
15:17 < dx> damn that's a nice hostname
15:17 < Stormx2> yeah tis
15:18 < nastyCreeper> not minecraft.net though
15:18 < nastyCreeper> anybody can reg minecraft.* domain
15:18 < dx> anybody lol
15:18 < dx> it's nice because it's hard to get
15:18 < Stormx2> All the minecraft.x tlds went ages ago
15:18 < Stormx2> also, trademarks
15:19 < dav1d> fuck java
15:19 < dx> lol wait
15:19 < Stormx2> /ban dav1d alt of pbunny
15:19 < dx> http://www.minecraft.org/downloads.php#gameclient
15:19 < nastyCreeper> minecraft.org doesn't whois to mojang
15:19 < nastyCreeper> dx: anybody can run such site
15:19 < dav1d> Stormx2: no seariously
15:19 < dx> >What? Minecraft Game Client made by Triddin
15:19 < dx> maximum legitness
15:19 < nastyCreeper> i think Rudench is just a wannabe
15:20 < dx> nastyCreeper: duh
15:20 < Stormx2> dav1d, I have a lot of issues with Java too haha
15:20 < dx> nastyCreeper: it's obvious it's not mojang
15:20 < dav1d> Stormx2: https://gist.github.com/Dav1dde/fc4fc653e3b2bd8a867f
15:20 < dav1d> Stormx2: A extends Object declared in class MyList
15:20 < dav1d> line 35
15:20 < dav1d> wtf?
15:20 < nastyCreeper> "Version 3.0.2 works with Minecraft 0.30"
15:21 < nastyCreeper> Rudench: wtf
15:21 < dav1d> I mean the code isn't exactly the nicest, because I don't care
15:21 < nastyCreeper> what is minecraft 0.30 ?
15:21 < Thinkofdeath> nastyCreeper, Classic
15:21 < jast> I find the best way to hurt freeloader sites like that, chock full with ads and content made mainly by others, is to get as many people as possible to go there and reload the page as often as possible
15:21 <+sadimusi> did I miss something?
15:21 < dx> nastyCreeper: it's a version you can legally use right now
15:22 < jast> that should trigger abuse detection
15:22 < dx> sadimusi: welcome back!
15:22 < dx> jast: "abuse detection"?
15:22 < Stormx2> sadimusi, quite a lot of sadness from nastyCreeper
15:23 < dx> jast: oh you mean, to get the ad companies to check if the site is legit?
15:23  * sadimusi reads backlog
15:23 < nastyCreeper> sadimusi: i am being pbunny by joining after he was banned
15:23 < nastyCreeper> i'm sorry for that
15:24 < dx> okay guys you heard him, pbunny is sorry
15:24 <+sadimusi> nastyCreeper: you are being pbunny by acting like him
15:24 < nastyCreeper> ...
15:24 < dx> he will now promise to pretend to not be pbunny
15:24 < nastyCreeper> ok i'm sorry for acting like him
15:24 < dav1d>   lol
15:25 < dx> (btw, did i get the word order right?)
15:25 < dx> or is it "not to be"?
15:26 <+sadimusi> nastyCreeper: remember yesterday when you offered to leave the channel? now would be a good time
15:27 < dav1d> sadimusi: don't forget his other two nicks
15:27 <+sadimusi> what's the newest one?
15:28 < nastyCreeper> sadimusi: if i was pbunny, wouldn't i try to act as differently as i could from him?
15:28 < nastyCreeper> i think he is a smart person and could easily manage to hide his identity
15:28 < dx> lol
15:28 < dav1d> sadimusi: luntik13
15:28 < nastyCreeper> well, stupid people don't generally make servers from scratch
15:29 < dav1d> ^ lol
15:29 < nastyCreeper> i think IQ of at least 100 is required to make a server
15:29 < dx> lol
15:29 < nastyCreeper> and something like 95 to hide own identity from others
15:30 <+Prf_Jakob> nastyCreeper: actually, stupid people do, smart people join another project.
15:30  * dx would like to point out that intelligence is not a linear scale
15:30 < dav1d> Prf_Jakob: that hurts
15:30 -!- mode/#mcdevs [+o sadimusi] by ChanServ
15:30 <+Fador> =(
15:30 -!- mode/#mcdevs [+b *!*@static-71-174-73-11.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] by sadimusi
15:30 -!- nastyCreeper was kicked from #mcdevs by sadimusi [nastyCreeper]
15:30 < dx> rip.
15:30 -!- mode/#mcdevs [-o sadimusi] by sadimusi
15:31 <+Prf_Jakob> dav1d: its not like I didn't start me own project as well :p
15:31 <+Prf_Jakob> my*
15:31 < dav1d> Prf_Jakob: but it was the first out there, wasn't it?
15:31 < dx> the first out there is the mojang one :P
15:31 < jast> let's see how long it takes for more nicks to appear
15:31 <+Prf_Jakob> For D:ish yes, there where some other clients out there
15:31 < dav1d> dx: yeah but you can hardly join it
15:32 < dx> dav1d: hmod / bukkit did something close to that :D
15:32 < dav1d> hehe
15:32 -!- kittiepiggy [~meow@static.87.42.63.178.clients.your-server.de] has joined #mcdevs
15:32 < dx> nyan
15:33 < kittiepiggy> :3
15:33 <+Prf_Jakob> dav1d: to be fair, mineflayer would probably have been the best bet (at the time)
15:33 < dav1d> sadimusi: :(
15:33 <+Prf_Jakob> C++ core with JavaScript engine.
15:33 < dav1d> yeah but "C++"
15:33 <+Prf_Jakob> Qt based.
15:33 <+Prf_Jakob> Right
15:33 < dx> wasn't mineflayer a client?
15:33 <+Prf_Jakob> yes
15:33 < dav1d> dx: yeah
15:33 < dx> i thought we were talking about servers
15:33 < dx> but ok
15:33 < dav1d> dx: na about Prf_Jakobs client
15:34 < dx> oh
15:34 <+Prf_Jakob> dx: both me and dav1d have clients written in D.
15:34 < dav1d> and
15:34 < dav1d> "+Prf_Jakob | nastyCreeper: actually, stupid people do, smart people join another project."
15:34 < dav1d> :)
15:34 < dx> oh okay i get it
15:34 <+Prf_Jakob> dav1d: then again, if I would have been smart I would have not used D, because ugh D's toolchain :-/
15:34 < dav1d> yeah
15:34 < dx> that was just Prf_Jakob telling dav1d that he's stupid, nothing else
15:34 < dav1d> but D aas language <3
15:34 < dav1d> dx: :D
15:34 < dx> :D
15:35 < dx> but seriously alternate minecraft clients are a rare thing, and D projects are sort of rare too, why aren't you guys working together?
15:36 <+Prf_Jakob> dx: no, that was seriously, targeted at him. Tho to be fair I'm just as stupid.
15:36 < dx> (or at least i hope you steal code from each other)
15:36 <+Prf_Jakob> dx: where him != dav1d :)
15:37 < dx> Prf_Jakob: hah you confused me for a second
15:37 < dav1d> dx: well back in the time I started (I didn't even knew about his project the first month?) his project was D1 (the old "version" of D), also I made my client to learn OpenGL, but Prf_Jakob has already a complete engine, so nothing to do with opengl
15:37 < dav1d> dx: well stealing from Prf_Jakob is hard :P
15:37 < dx> :(
15:38 < dav1d> he is the no dependency, low language feauture guy, where I am the I don't care about dependencies too much and give me all the new feautures I can get guy
15:39 < dx> sounds like Prf_Jakob does more work and his work is easier to steal... also sounds like he wouldn't like that
15:39 <+Prf_Jakob> I don't mind
15:39 <+Prf_Jakob> The no dependency thing is because its a PITA to pack it all up and releases it.
15:40 <+Prf_Jakob> release it*
15:40 < dav1d> yeah
15:40 < dav1d> the next difference, his project is actually useable :P
15:40 <+Prf_Jakob> http://charged-miners.com/
15:40 <+Prf_Jakob> if you are wondering
15:40 <+Prf_Jakob> but its classic only
15:40 < dx> ooh
15:40 < dav1d> dx: I tried stealing from him, but meh, the code is too minimalistic for me :P
15:41 -!- Exio [~x@trekweb/user/nax] has quit [Quit: bbl]
15:41 < dx> "i didn't steal the code because it wasn't bloated enough"
15:41 < dav1d> haha
15:42 < dx> Prf_Jakob: the first thing i thought was "why restrict it to minecraft classic?"
15:43 < dx> implementing minecraft modern is complex for everybody but if you got that far you could just make a different game with your own server
15:43 < dav1d> dx: I think networking is implemented until beta 1.8, I was thinking of donating my networking code to it at some point, never did though
15:45 < dx> i never saw networking as a problem, but connecting to modern servers with classic features gives you a sort of disappointing feature set IMO
15:46 < dx> unavoidable at early stages and not bad if you have a lot of time to work on it, but...
15:46 < dav1d> oh I think that wouldn't be that much of a problem, charged looks like a pretty grown engine
15:46 < dav1d> huge part would be https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/tree/master/brala/dine/builder/vertices_
15:46 < dav1d> :P
15:46 < dav1d> implementing all these stinking blocks with the correct textures
15:46 < dx> ..lol
15:47 < dx> yeah i guess
15:47 < dav1d> most of that code is magic
15:47 < dav1d> magic and 1k lines of glue
15:47 < dav1d> (../builder.d)
15:47 <+Prf_Jakob> yeah there is a lot of magic in CM's builder.d as well
15:48 < dx> what's a builder.d?
15:49 < dav1d> dx: my builder.d places all the vertices inside a buffer, which then is uploaded to opengl
15:49 < dav1d> ready to be rendered
15:49 <+Prf_Jakob> ditto
15:49 < dx> heh
15:50 <+Prf_Jakob> https://github.com/Charged/Miners/blob/master/src/miners/builder/classic.d <-- here is the code for classic.
15:50 < dx> i was thinking it'd be something common in the .d language
15:50 -!- unnicked432 [~50e8f3d5@204.155.152.124] has joined #mcdevs
15:53 < dav1d> sadimusi: ...
15:54 < dav1d> lol
15:54 -!- xy [xy@unaffiliated/xy] has quit [Quit: bye]
15:55 < dav1d> We have to implement a queue for university, I wonder what they would say to my queue: https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/brala/utils/queue.d#L16
15:57 < dx> er..
15:57 < dx> dav1d: what do you expect?
15:57 -!- Paprikachu [~Paprikach@80.120.175.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:57 < dav1d> dx: would be interesting if they would even understand what's going on
15:58 < dx> dav1d: ...lol
15:58 < dav1d> our programming course is really really bad
15:58 < dx> okay i get it
15:58 < dav1d> they might be really good mathematicans
15:58 < dav1d> but it feels like they never programmed before
15:58 < dav1d> (at least in java)
15:58 < dx> i was reading the code and it seemed like a normal queue to me
15:59 < dx> *normal multithreaded queue
15:59 < dav1d> dx: yeah it is, with some (imo) nifty threading/lock techniques (definitly spelled incorrectly)
15:59 < dx> yes, it's spelt "definitely"
15:59 < dav1d> haha
16:00 < dx> also, unit tests as a language feature! that's cool
16:01 < dav1d> you can't do much with them, but they are extremly useful, never thought they would be so great
16:01 < dav1d> (if you've ever seen py.test etc.)
16:01 -!- kittiepiggy [~meow@static.87.42.63.178.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
16:01 < dx> cool mostly because they consider that, but i bet some people reinvent that wheel to have more flexibility or a different api
16:02 < dav1d> they covered my ass several times already
16:03 -!- Paprikachu [~Paprikach@80.120.175.113] has joined #mcdevs
16:03 <+Prf_Jakob> covered?
16:04 < dav1d> oh
16:04 < dav1d> this was definitly the wrong word
16:05 < dav1d> saved
16:05 < dx> definitely
16:05 < dav1d> gah again :(
16:05 < dx> :D
16:05 < dav1d> *definitely
16:05  * dav1d goes to write definitely 100 times
16:05 <+Prf_Jakob> haha
16:06 <+Prf_Jakob> German word for saved, is the same as the german word for cover(ed)?
16:06 < jast> no
16:06 < dx> actually 'covered' confused me, it sounded wrong and acceptable at the same time, but all i could think was that dav1d was butt naked several times
16:06 <+Prf_Jakob> hehe
16:06 < dav1d> no
16:07 < dx> dav1d: it's okay to be naked as long as it's not in public
16:07 < dav1d> I tend to pick the wrong english words
16:07 <+Prf_Jakob> In Swedish the word for unsure is the same as unsecure.
16:07 <+Prf_Jakob> tend to get that wrong :)
16:07 < dav1d> Prf_Jakob: same in german :)
16:07 < jast> insecure? :)
16:07 < jast> insecure is two things
16:07 < dx> google tells me that unsecure exists too
16:08 < jast> it has both meanings, too, sort of
16:08 < dx> http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/19653/insecure-or-unsecure-when-dealing-with-security
16:08 < dav1d> not in dict.cc
16:08 < dx> of course insecure is much more common
16:08 < dav1d> http://www.dict.cc/?s=unsecure
16:08 -!- Yoshi2 [~chatzilla@xdsl-78-35-215-53.netcologne.de] has joined #mcdevs
16:08 < jast> unsecured is a word, unsecure isn't
16:08 < jast> IMO
16:09 < dx> oh, good point, that link i posted doesn't mention "unsecure" either
16:09 < dx> it's unsecured
16:09 < jast> and insecure can mean both 'not sure' as well as 'not secured'
16:09 < jast> and a host of other things :)
16:10 < jast> it's a bit more specific than 'not sure', though
16:10 < dx> yeah, 'not sure' is 'lighter'
16:13 <+sadimusi> lol @ #minecraft 
16:13 < dx> i'm not there, what happened?
16:13 <+sadimusi> [4:10pm] nastyCreeper: hi, i just came to tell you sadimusi from #mcdevs is stupid piece of shit, bans people for nothing and then asks them for account details in pm
16:13 < dx> lol
16:14 < dx> i like how ambiguous 'account details' is
16:14 < jast> in freenode?
16:14 < dx> there's a #minecraft here
16:14 < jast> shouldn't that be ##minecraft, then? :}
16:15 < dx> hmm
16:15 < jast> (bless freenode's idea of sanity)
16:15 < dx> i think it's owned by the moderators of reddit's /r/minecraft, that's almost official :D
16:15 < jast> ... except not at all
16:15 < dx> yeah i know
16:17 -!- Not-003 [~notifico@198.199.82.216] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:17 <+pdelvo> <nastyCreeper> i won't be satisfied in this life until seeing sadimusi burning in hell for eternity
16:17 <+pdelvo> :o
16:17 < dx> i think he's a bit angry
16:18 < dx> TkTech sadimusi: btw, the chanserv +o list has a bunch of people who aren't here anymore, refill that please
16:18 < jast> so he wants to wait for eternity until he will be satisfied in this life
16:18 < jast> makes sense
16:19 -!- xy [xy@unaffiliated/xy] has joined #mcdevs
16:20 < dav1d> sadimusi: lol
16:20 < dav1d> jast: it should me ##minecraft but freenode staff is ok with #minecraft
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17:28 < Stormx2> <nastyCreeper> i think he is a smart person and could easily manage to hide his identity
17:29 < Stormx2> hahahahaha
17:29 < dav1d> Stormx2: well unnicked432 is the next pbunny
17:29 < AnotherOne> Effect position X     int     250     effect X multiplied by 8 
17:30 < AnotherOne> why multiplied by 8?
17:30 < AnotherOne> (from http://www.wiki.vg/Protocol#Named_Sound_Effect_.280x3E.29)
17:30 -!- KolakCC [~KolakCC@unaffiliated/kolakcc] has left #mcdevs []
17:31 <+pdelvo> to increase the precission
17:31 < Stormx2> AnotherOne, gives you granularity to 1/8th of a block
17:32 -!- SuinDraw [~NiaTeppel@WiseOS/Founder/NiaTeppelin] has joined #mcdevs
17:32 < AnotherOne> but why no double?
17:32 < dav1d> what if the position (x) is: int.max/8+1
17:32 -!- Paprikachu [~Paprikach@80.120.175.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:33 < AnotherOne> :D
17:33 < dav1d> AnotherOne: double would be twice the size, but float would work, but that is too accurate, you don't need it that accurate
17:34 -!- SuinDraw [~NiaTeppel@WiseOS/Founder/NiaTeppelin] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:34 < AnotherOne> damnit dav1d
17:34 < unnicked432> ?
17:34 < AnotherOne> you made me want to check what happens
17:34 < unnicked432> dav1d: ?
17:34 < dav1d> AnotherOne: mh?
17:34 < dav1d> AnotherOne: I made you check how a float works?
17:35 < AnotherOne> what if the position (x) is: int.max/8+1
17:35 < unnicked432> dav1d: what do you want from me?
17:35 < dav1d> AnotherOne: oh this will overflow into the negative
17:35 < Stormx2> unnicked432, I want your nuanced critique of java plzkthx
17:35 < AnotherOne> i know
17:35 < unnicked432> Stormx2: what is wrong with java?
17:35 < unnicked432> i think java is the best language available
17:36 < unnicked432> java gave birth to minecraft
17:36 < Stormx2> hahahahahaha
17:36 < dav1d> AnotherOne: oh I understand now :)
17:36 < Stormx2> too far in the other direction
17:36 < unnicked432> ?
17:36 < Stormx2> good effort though
17:36 < dav1d> AnotherOne: at a certain distance (away from 0,0) minecraft will fail anyways
17:36 < AnotherOne> farlands
17:36 < unnicked432> Stormx2: what language do you use?
17:36 < dav1d> sethbling made such a video once
17:36 < AnotherOne> lovely broken farlands
17:36 < dav1d> I think it was at 300k
17:36 < dav1d> or 30k, can't quite remember
17:37 < AnotherOne> i was there
17:37 < AnotherOne> on 1.5.2
17:37 < dav1d> legit?
17:37 < AnotherOne> no beautiful mountains
17:37 < AnotherOne> just dirt under the ocean
17:38 < AnotherOne> and local server dies in 30 seconds
17:39 -!- SuinDraw [~NiaTeppel@WiseOS/Founder/NiaTeppelin] has joined #mcdevs
17:39 < AnotherOne> it was at x 30 000 000
17:39 < AnotherOne> so let's count
17:40 < AnotherOne> int_max / 8 is 268 435 455,875
17:40 < AnotherOne> so we cant check what happens with sound
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17:41 < AnotherOne> but what if i teleport to x 29 999 999 in nether and dive out with portal?
17:43 < Yoshi2> some very fun stuff could happen
17:43 < AnotherOne> server crash?
17:44 < Yoshi2> maybe, I don't know
17:44 < Thinkofdeath> Well just tping to 29,999,999 in the nether causes mc to freeze for me 
17:45 < jast> magick!
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17:46 < Thinkofdeath> java.lang.ArithmeticException: / by zero on tping to NaN though
17:49 < AnotherOne> can you help me with my problem? i am trying to login to some offline mode server and i get lots of nicknames and end of stream after receiving 0x0D
17:49 < AnotherOne> is it because i read too slow?
17:49 < dav1d> you can't read to slow
17:50 < AnotherOne> respond too slow?
17:50 < dav1d> no
17:50 < AnotherOne> so why end of stream?
17:50 < dav1d> well you can read too slow, but that has to be really slow then
17:51 < dav1d> AnotherOne: what does the minecraft server say?
17:51 < dx> what happened with the guy who wanted to connect to a server using putty?
17:51 < AnotherOne> i dont know
17:51 < jast> bah. putty is telnet for noobs.
17:51 < AnotherOne> it is not my server
17:51 < jast> real experts use socat
17:52 < dx> jast: using the word 'noob' for this use case is an understatement
17:52 < jast> or an ethernet cable, a power source, a few buttons and quick fingers
17:52 < Yoshi2> real men use IE6 to remote control their PCs from a toaster
17:52 < jast> if you use IE6 you can't possibly be real
17:53 < dx> butterflies suck
17:53 < jast> that hasn't been my experience. seems like their expertise focuses on flying
17:55 < dx> HOLY SHIT GUYS THERE'S A SNAPSHOT
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17:56 < AnotherOne> so what should i do?
17:56 < dx> i haven't messed with decompiled snapshots before, but i really want to take a look at the new internal chat system
17:57 < dav1d> AnotherOne: launch your own server, connect to it, look what it spits out
17:58 < AnotherOne> it's ok eith my own server
17:58 < AnotherOne> with*
17:58 < AnotherOne> do i need to launch bukkit server with couple of thousands of registered users?
18:01 < dx> doesn't sound practical but if you buy a few thousand accounts mojang would appreciate it
18:01 < dav1d> not bukkit vanilla
18:01 < dav1d> you should always test against vanilla
18:01 < AnotherOne> heh:)
18:01 < dav1d> that's the reference implementation not bukkit
18:01 < AnotherOne> i've tried another bukkit server
18:02 < AnotherOne> without that stupid transmission of all nicks
18:02 < AnotherOne> and it is ok
18:02 < AnotherOne> so that was some kind of timeout
18:02 < dav1d> yeah that's the reason why you should test against vanilla, then if everything works on vanilla think about bukkit and maybe some plugins
18:03 < dav1d> every plugin might change stuff
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18:04 < AnotherOne> can you help me with send/receive architecture?
18:04 < AnotherOne> i have a thread that listens to socket and puts all data into the stream buffer
18:04 < AnotherOne> how can i determine there are enough data to process next message?
18:05 < dav1d> I would let the thread also spit out packets
18:05 < dav1d> *also parse the packets
18:05 < dav1d> AnotherOne: let the thread parse the packets
18:05 < dav1d> .read(n) will wait until n bytes are read from the stream
18:06 < AnotherOne> so should i combine reading and parsing?
18:06 < dav1d> yes
18:06 < dav1d> what language are you using?
18:06 < AnotherOne> C++
18:07 < dav1d> then C++ classes should work
18:07 < dav1d> (as packets)
18:07 < AnotherOne> they do
18:07 < dav1d> yeah :)
18:07 < AnotherOne> but i did want to separate reading from parsing
18:07 < dav1d> give them a virtual function which returns the packet id, then you can dynmaically cast
18:07 < dav1d> why?
18:07 < AnotherOne> fukken modularity
18:07 < dav1d> no
18:08 < dav1d> read a byte, dispatch the byte to the correct packet class, packet.read!()
18:08 < AnotherOne> so i can use parser library without binding to specified network library
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18:08 < dav1d> AnotherOne: this overcomplicates things
18:09 < dav1d> you're probably already using threads because you want to have your logic concurrently 
18:09 < dav1d> which means, you means you want only to react to complete packets not to a few bytes
18:10 < AnotherOne> yes
18:10 < dav1d> so parsing packets in the connection thread makes sense
18:10 < dav1d> if you use an intermediate buffer where you append the read data (assuming socket.read())
18:10 < dav1d> only makes things harder, instead of passing the socket object to the packet parsing function
18:11 < dav1d> which then can call socket.read(EXACT_AMOUNT_OF_BYTES_I_NEED)
18:11 < dav1d> since this will block, until exactly that amount of bytes was read
18:11 < AnotherOne> there is a little problem
18:11 < AnotherOne> i don't always know how many bytes do i need
18:12 <+pdelvo> you know how many you need for the next part of a packet
18:12 < AnotherOne> hmm
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18:12 < AnotherOne> i can check if stream buffer empty on every part read
18:12 < dav1d> AnotherOne: yeah, only read when you need it
18:13 < dav1d> AnotherOne: you also would need to check the size
18:13 < dav1d> well, that's basically implicit if size >= needed_size
18:13 < dav1d> but what if it doesn't match?
18:13 < dav1d> you need to wait
18:13 < dav1d> so you need some mechanism to wait, or call on the buffer again
18:14 < dav1d> but the socketobject itself works perfectly fine as such buffer already
18:14 < AnotherOne> yes
18:14 < dav1d> doing it like this works really good for me
18:15 < AnotherOne> lang?
18:15 < AnotherOne> c# iirc
18:15 < dav1d> no
18:15 < dav1d> D
18:15 <+pdelvo> one note above
18:16 < AnotherOne> oh yes
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18:17 < AnotherOne> and you told bad things about me when i told bad things about d
18:17 < dav1d> AnotherOne: well, I simply hate it if people talk about something they don't know about
18:17 < dav1d> and act as they would know everything
18:18 < dav1d> but yeah I probably overreacted, sorry 'bout that
18:18 < AnotherOne> np:)
18:19 < AnotherOne> what if i make class wrapper for socket?
18:20 < dav1d> makes things easier
18:20 < dav1d> I made myself a helper: read!int(socket) – read!Chunk(socket)
18:20 < AnotherOne> and by changing that class i can achieve my beloved modularity
18:20 < AnotherOne> what is ! in D?
18:21 < dav1d> which reads anything from a socket (where ! indicates D templates), if it's a primitive type then it calls, socket.read(_x_) if not type.read(socket)
18:21 < dav1d> AnotherOne: templates
18:21 < dav1d> https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/brala/network/util.d#L66
18:22 < dav1d> probably hard to read if you haven't seen D before
18:22 <+pdelvo> like generics?
18:22 < dav1d> ah yeah and it allows things like: read!(int, Chunk, short, byte, EntityMetadata)(socket)
18:22 < eddyb> no, generics are like templates :P
18:23 < dav1d> which is pretty neat
18:23 < eddyb> I'd like C++ <> better
18:23 < eddyb> read<int, Chunk, short, byte, EntityMetadata>(socket)
18:23 < dav1d> also: read!(int[])(socket)
18:23 < dav1d> for arrays a short is automatically read as length
18:23 < eddyb> ! and parens is too confusing
18:23 < dav1d> eddyb: ?
18:23 < dav1d> foo(T)(T x)
18:23 < dav1d> that's the definition
18:24 < dav1d> ! only indicates the compile time part
18:24 < eddyb> even worse, templates using function call syntax
18:24 < dav1d> oh I see your example now
18:24 < dav1d> eddyb: well, ever dealt with nested templates or more complex stuff?
18:25 < dav1d> gets unreadable pretty fast in C++
18:25 < dav1d> especially <<..> >
18:25 < eddyb> like F<5, G<A, B>> ?
18:25 < eddyb> << isn't valid
18:25 < dav1d> eddyb: wouldn't that error
18:25 < dav1d> either in VS or in g++ this errors
18:25 < eddyb> it's fine in C++11 and a bit earlier, too
18:25 < dx> uh, guys, is it just me or b.wiki.vg lets you diff against 1.5.2 but that version isn't an option in the dropdowns?
18:25 < eddyb> it only errors if the compiler is using crappy old parsers
18:25 < dav1d> ah so they changed that
18:26 < dav1d> good to hear
18:26 < eddyb> it's a compiler error, not part of the specs :P
18:26 < dav1d> eddyb: https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/brala/network/packets/util.d#L24 :D
18:26 < dav1d> yes I overdid it there
18:26 < dav1d> but I'd like to see the C++ solution :P
18:26 < AnotherOne> hey people, what about swapping byteorder on generic size object?
18:27 < eddyb> no
18:27 < AnotherOne> other that std::reverse
18:27 < dav1d> AnotherOne: htons and friends?
18:27 < eddyb> "swapping byteorder" is only done for u16, u32 and u64
18:27 < AnotherOne> and for floats and doubles
18:28 < eddyb> AnotherOne: those are u32 and u64 in memory
18:28 < AnotherOne> i know
18:28 < AnotherOne> that sweet cast magic
18:28 < dav1d> so it makes no difference :)
18:28 < eddyb> so just reinterpret_cast or pointer cast in C
18:29 < eddyb> dav1d: like, >> requires some context in the parser and a separate tokenizer (like in the old lex/yacc parsers) makes it very hard
18:30 < eddyb> wtf I'm not seeing the semantics in that get_packets_mixin
18:30 < eddyb> Rust makes more sense with this stuff
18:30 < dav1d> eddyb: haha yeah
18:30 < dav1d> as I said, I overdid it
18:31 < dav1d> basically puts every Packet class it finds inside a tuple as type
18:31 < dav1d> parse_packet takes an arbitrary id and returns a parsed packet
18:31 < dav1d> (id has to be known at compile time)
18:32 < dav1d> but that is not a big deal, you can generate switch..case at compiletime, too
18:32 < eddyb> does D have ADTs?
18:32 < dav1d> so my parsing is then done in ~6 lines
18:32 < dav1d> eddyb: adt?
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18:33 < eddyb> dav1d: like tagged unions, a central data structure in Haskell and friends
18:33 < eddyb> Rust has them in a form of parametrized enums
18:33 < dav1d> eddyb: tagged union, kinda
18:33 < dav1d> sbut library solutions
18:34 < eddyb> no, this is syntax-level
18:34 < dav1d> http://dlang.org/phobos/std_variant.html#.Algebraic and http://www.deadalnix.me/2013/05/10/type-safe-tagged-union-in-d-programming-language/
18:34 < eddyb> enum Option<T> { Something(T), None }; // something like that
18:34 < dav1d> ah yeah
18:34 < dav1d> enum Option : T { }
18:34 < eddyb> "Currently, Algebraic does not allow recursive data types. They will be allowed in a future iteration of the implementation." pffft :P
18:34 < dav1d> enum Option : T { X = T(blub) }
18:35 < eddyb> no
18:35 < eddyb> that's almost like C++11, ADTs are different
18:35 < dav1d> then I don't understand 
18:35 < dav1d> enum or union?
18:36 < eddyb> enum Tree<T> {Node(Tree, Tree), Leaf(T)}
18:36 < AnotherOne> hey dav1d
18:36 < AnotherOne> why D?
18:36 < eddyb> dav1d: an enum in Rust is an ADT if you have parameters to the variants
18:37 < dav1d> AnotherOne: I find C++ a pain and D less pain, also a GC (yeah I am a sissy), for performance critical code I can still use malloc and friends though. Coding in D is more productive and less pain (personal experience)
18:37 < dav1d> eddyb: any examples?
18:37 < eddyb> the one I just gave up D:?
18:37 < eddyb> that's a binary tree
18:37 < jast> Rust is _really_ interesting
18:37 < dav1d> eddyb: I skipped that :P
18:37 < AnotherOne> less pain you say
18:37 < dav1d> eddyb: so basically a struct?
18:37 < eddyb> maybe I need a None variant, just in case
18:38 < AnotherOne> are you about butthurt?;)
18:38 < eddyb> dav1d: tagged union
18:38 < dav1d> eddyb: I think we think of different things when we hear tagged union
18:39 < dav1d> AnotherOne: well if you enjoy coding in C++, go ahead, I find D an improvement in every way (except stability, which has improved quite a lot though)
18:39 < eddyb> struct { int tag; union {struct variantA{int;float;}; struct variantB{double;double;};};};
18:39 < eddyb> but in C/C++ you have to manually manage it
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18:40 < dav1d> eddyb: well in D I can also put an arbitrary type in a union?
18:40 < dav1d> also http://www.deadalnix.me/2013/05/10/type-safe-tagged-union-in-d-programming-language/
18:40 < dav1d> ^ what I understand as tagged union
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18:40 < eddyb> yes
18:41 < eddyb> except much easier to manage
18:41 < dav1d> eddyb: you can dynamically build that at compile time (as shown in the example) but it's not builtin into the language
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18:41 < eddyb> even in D it's heavier than in Rust
18:42 < AnotherOne> oh damn
18:42 < AnotherOne> now everyone tries to make a language better than C++
18:42 < AnotherOne> but...
18:42 < AnotherOne> we have java
18:42 < dav1d> eddyb: yes? of course it's a library thing and not language supported
18:42 < eddyb> java isn't the best thing either
18:42 < AnotherOne> and c#
18:42 < eddyb> dav1d: in Rust they're compile-time safe
18:43 < AnotherOne> but i like c#
18:43 < AnotherOne> though it is a bastard too
18:43 < dav1d> then use it?
18:43 < dav1d> use what ever you prefer most
18:43 < AnotherOne> is mono ok now?
18:43 < dav1d> just don't think the language you use is the best, because it probably isn't (depends on the job)
18:43 < AnotherOne> what about linux c#?
18:43 < dav1d> mono is amazing, from what I've heared
18:43 < AnotherOne> i don't
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18:44 < AnotherOne> there is a russian expression, literally "golden middle", idk is there english variant
18:44 < eddyb> dav1d: something like this: def depthFirst<T>(tree : Tree<T>, fn : (Tree<T>) -> void)  -> void {match(tree) {Leaf(x) => fn(x); Node(left, right) => depthFirst(left), depthFirst(right)}}
18:45 <+pdelvo> the most parts are good, but there are some I dont like about mono
18:45 < eddyb> dav1d: there's zero chance of pointer-related failures
18:45 < AnotherOne> and it is c++: not too low-level and not too high-level
18:45 -!- act4 [~alex@dhcp-129-234-83-199.tr.esol.dur.ac.uk] has joined #mcdevs
18:45 <+pdelvo> there are some methods which are present in mono, but with a slightly different signature, so you have to compile 2 times :(
18:45 < dav1d> eddyb: type can't be known at compiletime
18:46 < dav1d> it has to be dispatched at runtime
18:46 < eddyb> the tag?
18:46 < dav1d> otherwise you wouldn't need a union
18:46 < eddyb> yepp, but Rust enforces safe ADT-using code
18:46 < eddyb> it doesn't have nullable pointers, so it has an Option<T> ADT for that
18:47 < eddyb> you will never be able to use a "null" Option as a pointer
18:47 < dav1d> at runtime enforced?
18:47 < eddyb> nope
18:47 < dav1d> well then I can still null it
18:48 < eddyb> that's the best part, you can't
18:48 < dav1d> there are no casts?
18:48 < dav1d> there is always a way to break the typesystem :P
18:48 < eddyb> it's a safe language, so no
18:48 < dav1d> yeah well then probably not
18:48 < eddyb> only safe inheritance casts
18:48 < dav1d> (tbh I like beeing able to null instances)
18:49 < dav1d> eddyb: they can fail, too
18:49 < dav1d> downcasting?
18:49 < eddyb> (and integer/float value casts, of course)
18:49 < eddyb> dav1d: can't remember the details, but anything that can break safety just doesn't exist
18:49 < dav1d> eddyb: downcasts can fail
18:50 < eddyb> then it's either not in Rust, it returns an Option or it has an explicit failure detecting mechanism
18:50 < dav1d> C inherits from B, B inherits from A and D inherits from A, now I want to downcast A, to C or to D?
18:50 < dav1d> eddyb: ^
18:50 <+clonejo> eddyb: Does Rust have supervision trees?
18:50 -!- AlphaBlend1 is now known as AlphaBlend
18:50 < eddyb> clonejo: is it wrong that I haven never heard of that concept before?
18:51 < dav1d> eddyb: I think that's an erlang thing with its processes
18:51 <+clonejo> eddyb: no, it's an Erlang feature
18:51 < eddyb> dav1d: C to D is just compile-time invalid
18:51 < dav1d> eddyb: no
18:52 < eddyb> since C doesn't inherit from D and D doesn't inherit from C
18:52 <+clonejo> Supervision trees are the things that make Erlang software hard to crash completely.
18:52 < dav1d> eddyb: I have an instance of A, but I don't know if it is an instance of C or D
18:52 < eddyb> dav1d: ah, that's better
18:52 < dav1d> eddyb: how can the compiler know this, it can't
18:52 < eddyb> as I said, pick one of those tree options
18:52 < eddyb> let me search for it, actually
18:52 < dav1d> eddyb: he, if it allows casting, then the result will be null, which breaks your non-nullable types
18:53 < eddyb> "result will be null" that's impossible
18:53 < dav1d> except you don't allow the result assigned to a non-nullable
18:53 < dav1d> eddyb: of course
18:53 < dav1d> eddyb: what would you expect a failing downcast to return?
18:53 < eddyb> as I said, it either returns a Option or you have to handle an explicit fail case (or it's like an if statement)
18:53 < dav1d> other than invalid state
18:54 < eddyb> with an Option you'd still have to handle the failure cast, but it's more generic
18:55 < dav1d> well tbh I don't really care too much
18:55 < eddyb> so far I see you can cast to traits, but that couldn't fail anyways
18:55 < dav1d> btw I think I've seen that tagged unions thing on reddit
18:55 < eddyb> oh, I know where I've seen !() before
18:55 < eddyb> macros in Rust
18:58 < eddyb> "No, casts from an interface to a particular type (I call them downcasts, but you seem to call them upcasts) are not possible in Rust. The article mentions this in that Rust has no equivalent of Go's type assertion. You need to use an 'enum' type in Rust if you want that sort of functionality."
18:58 < eddyb> dav1d: I hope that answers your question :)
18:59 < dav1d> interesting approach
18:59 < eddyb> the enum type is one of those ADTs
18:59 < dav1d> so you can only cast with a union
18:59 < dav1d> which is supposed to be safe
18:59 < dav1d> (and probably is)
19:00 < eddyb> I was thinking of packet parsing, and with some macros, it could be nice in Rust. sadly there's no variadic generics yet, those could be helpful at some point
19:01 < eddyb> enum Packet { Packet00(Packet00_data), ...} (just to get named fields)
19:02 < eddyb> anyway, I wanted to work on something completely different, got stuck in IRC land again :(
19:02 < dav1d> same here
19:02 < dav1d> xD
19:03 < AnotherOne> lol
19:03 < AnotherOne> same, fukken same
19:03 < AnotherOne> but i'm trying to make that sockwt wrapper
19:03 < eddyb> AnotherOne: and to answer your question, C++ is pretty good, but only if you're good at it
19:03 < AnotherOne> sure
19:04 < eddyb> I've written a class at some point that made it trivial to work with JS values (from v8) in bindings code
19:04 < AnotherOne> but it does not mean kiddies must have access to programming
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19:04 < eddyb> AnotherOne: it's quite the opposite
19:05 < eddyb> with some polishing, Rust is better to teach good coding styles and concepts
19:05 < eddyb> should I mention that I don't think I've ever seen a program written by one of my classmates for a CS problem, that isn't trivially exploitable?
19:06 < dav1d> university teaches you that every input is sane
19:06 < dav1d> except the few cases they state what error you have to expect
19:08 < eddyb> good thing I know how to break a program *before* going to uni :P
19:09 < eddyb> and the project I'm working on (if I ever finish it... wasting time like this isn't going to help at all :() could make large code bases (or even large obscure binaries) easier to scan for vulns
19:09 < AnotherOne> looks like i'm falling into sin of OOP
19:10 < eddyb> OOP isn't a sin as long as you don't end up writing Java code in C++
19:10 < AnotherOne> :D
19:10 < AnotherOne> too many OOP is a sin
19:11 < eddyb> there's this GPS app someone asked to RE, and I'm seeing statically allocated factories (with strings telling me what they're for) to build classes, or other factories
19:11 < eddyb> not sure what the hell they were thinking
19:12 < AnotherOne> thank you padre
19:12 < AnotherOne> i'm feeling better
19:19 -!- luntik13 [~Sashka@m77-219-23-197.cust.tele2.lv] has joined #mcdevs
19:19 < luntik13> hai
19:21 < luntik13> why is minecraft coded in java?
19:21 < AnotherOne> hi
19:21 < AnotherOne> because Notch
19:21 < luntik13> why is Notch?
19:21 <+clonejo> luntik13: Ask his parents
19:22 < luntik13> lol
19:22 < luntik13> btw
19:22 < dav1d> eddyb: enjoy university
19:22 < luntik13> any way to speak with notch directly?
19:22 < dav1d> one task: make a buttload (~10) factory classes which then return some obscure instance of a class which only parses cmd-line and then calls another class
19:23 < eddyb> mail?
19:23 < eddyb> dav1d: nope.avi
19:23 < dav1d> sadimusi: yay
19:23 < dav1d> eddyb: unfortunatly yes
19:25 <+clonejo> luntik13: Do you think you talking to him would change anything?
19:26 < luntik13> clonejo: i will make him smarter
19:26 < eddyb> notch doesn't even work on minecraft anymore
19:26 < eddyb> and he hasn't for almost two years now, I think
19:26 < dav1d> back to math, stinkin' test tomorrow
19:27 < eddyb> luntik13: have you been in #minecraft this week or the one before? I remember your name :/
19:27 < eddyb> what am I talking, let me grep logs
19:27 < luntik13> eddyb: i was here
19:28 < luntik13> also Luntik is cartoon character
19:29 < eddyb> hmm, you're not in my logs, I must have seen things
19:29 < redu> that name and 13 go together very well then
19:29 < redu> :D
19:31 < luntik13> well i'm 13 now
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19:31 < AnotherOne> http://img15.nnm.ru/0/d/e/6/e/aaf99b178b3b467af0dd4018ac4.jpg
19:31 < redu> .ru :| too scary
19:32 < AnotherOne> heh
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19:35 -!- luntik13 [~Sashka@m77-219-23-197.cust.tele2.lv] has quit [Quit: used jmIrc]
19:36 < dav1d> there goes the next pbunny instance, only one left
19:37 < eddyb> dav1d: call the destructors!
19:37 < dav1d> eddyb: ?
19:37 < dav1d> oh
19:37 < dav1d> :D
19:37 < dav1d> just helped someone in #d with destructors
19:37 < dav1d> I was confused for a second
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20:13 < AnotherOne> if i get end of stream in process of reading, should i close the connection?
20:14 < eddyb> how low-level are you?
20:14 < eddyb> and what does end-of-stream mean in the context?
20:14 < AnotherOne> making a socket wrapper
20:14 < AnotherOne> it means SDLNet_TCP_Recv() returns -1
20:14 < AnotherOne> http://sdl.beuc.net/sdl.wiki/SDLNet_TCP_Recv
20:14 < eddyb> there's at least 5 different ways a TCP connection could end
20:15 < eddyb> lol, using SDL
20:15 < AnotherOne> yes:)
20:15 < AnotherOne> is it bad?
20:15 < eddyb> AnotherOne: if you don't need multimedia stuff from SDL, you could find libuv a bit better
20:15 < eddyb> IIRC boost also has async networking
20:16 < AnotherOne> i think i do need multimedia stuff
20:16 < AnotherOne> but later
20:16 < AnotherOne> i can't boost
20:16 < AnotherOne> too complicated
20:19 < eddyb> https://github.com/joyent/node/blob/master/src/tcp_wrap.h https://github.com/joyent/node/blob/master/src/tcp_wrap.cc it's a bit clunky, but Ctrl+F uv_
20:20 < eddyb> AnotherOne: nevermind that mess, http://nikhilm.github.io/uvbook/networking.html#tcp
20:20 < eddyb> http://nikhilm.github.io/uvbook/networking.html#client
20:23 < AnotherOne> if something comes to my socket and i dont read it, does it stay there?
20:23 < eddyb> AnotherOne: also has timers, fs, threads, processes, and you can even mix its event loop with others http://nikhilm.github.io/uvbook/
20:24 < eddyb> AnotherOne: I suggest you use async IO, preferably abusing C++11 features :P
20:24 < eddyb> (yes, it's "there" until you read it, but it's just easier to get a notification when data comes in)
20:26 < eddyb> AnotherOne: TCP connections are streams: http://nikhilm.github.io/uvbook/filesystem.html#buffers-and-streams
20:27 < AnotherOne> nice
20:28 < eddyb> https://github.com/d5/node.native OMG I WANTED TO DO THIS
20:28 < eddyb> AnotherOne: just use that ^^ it will be the most awesome thing you've done in C++
20:28 < AnotherOne> i'll try:)
20:29 < AnotherOne> but what if i just combine reading from socket and parsing?
20:29 < eddyb> I wanted to have something like that as part of an OS API
20:29 < AnotherOne> no buffers
20:29 < eddyb> AnotherOne: you should parse as part of the read callback (so when you get data)
20:30 < eddyb> you have to at least store a partial packet in case you didn't get all the data
20:31 < eddyb> hmm, it doesn't seem like he updated it recently :/
20:31 < AnotherOne> what if i read a single byte for packet id and then call functions that read corresponding fields and deserialize them?
20:32 < AnotherOne> and again and again in infinite loop
20:32 < eddyb> it doesn't work that way
20:32 < AnotherOne> and no problems with partial data
20:32 < AnotherOne> why?
20:32 < eddyb> because syscalls are costly
20:32 < eddyb> and you'd also put stress on the kernel-level networking stack
20:33 -!- Yoshi2 [~chatzilla@xdsl-78-35-222-43.netcologne.de] has joined #mcdevs
20:33 < eddyb> "problems with partial data" - if only C++ had generators/coroutines :P
20:33 < Calinou> SDL is awesome eddyb 
20:33 < eddyb> Calinou: I know SDL in-depth, but it's not that great here
20:33 < Calinou> it is
20:33 < Calinou> other APIs are a mess that aren't crossplatform
20:34 < AnotherOne> so should i read large blocks and process on callback?
20:34 < eddyb> libuv has been written to be the crossplatform
20:34 < AnotherOne> and those nasty buffers
20:34 < AnotherOne> fuck
20:34 < eddyb> AnotherOne: seriously, buffer management is like 5 lines
20:34 < AnotherOne> orly?
20:34 < eddyb> yes
20:35 < eddyb> you should parse in a loop, until it fails, save the extra data, and next time you get new data, prepend the old extra data to it
20:35 < AnotherOne> so std::stringstream is bad buffer?
20:36 < eddyb> it's not a buffer, it's a string stream
20:36 < eddyb> i.e. a string you can stream to/from
20:37 < eddyb> vector maybe, but it's too element-oriented
20:39 < eddyb> I should pick up node.native, clean it up and update it
20:41 < eddyb> AnotherOne: so you can have a static byte buffer where you do this: read_start<max_alloc_size>(callback);
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20:41 < eddyb> if your static buffer is twice max_alloc_size, then it can fit old data and new data. you just have to be careful so you don't end up with packets not fitting
20:42 < eddyb> then again, just find a good buffer class
20:43 < eddyb> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1874354/a-dynamic-buffer-type-in-c
20:44 < eddyb> AnotherOne: then again, std::vector<u8> should work quite well
20:45 < eddyb> http://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/container/vector
20:46 < eddyb> with memmove and resize, you should be able to do some easy buffer management
20:49 < AnotherOne> vector... prepending... isn't it a hardcode memory rape?
20:50 < AnotherOne> but yes... a little rape is better than my current version of client
20:51 < eddyb> it's easier to copy memory than have an extra check for every access (which would be the other way to do this)
20:51 < AnotherOne> yep...
20:51 < AnotherOne> fuck
20:51 < dav1d> SDL is bad
20:51 < dav1d> well api-wise
20:52 < eddyb> https://github.com/deoxxa/libmcnet
20:52 < AnotherOne> i have to remake all message classes again
20:52 < eddyb> ^^not updated, but it has an awesome packet description system
20:52 < AnotherOne> nononononono
20:52 < eddyb> based on my older JS implementation
20:53 < AnotherOne> fukk macros
20:53 < eddyb> AnotherOne: I suggest trying to work with something like this: https://github.com/deoxxa/libmcnet/blob/master/include/mcnet/packets.h
20:53 < eddyb> macros are the only way to do this in a sane way, in C/C++
20:54 < eddyb> deoxxa had C code, so that packet list generates structs and pack/unpack code
20:54 < AnotherOne> do you want me to have fun debug time?:)
20:54 < eddyb> this is much better than anything you could come up with
20:55 < eddyb> but you can have a static function in each packet class, and then have a vector of those functions, so it's pretty much a "jump table"
20:56 < eddyb> or have a switch statement, like him, but with 0 packet-specific code, just calling the packet static function, which would get inlined
20:56 < AnotherOne> http://pastebin.com/Zi6CcKpf
20:56 < AnotherOne> i have classes like this
20:56 < eddyb> in a couple of hours I could come up with a nice C++ version for this and maybe even update the packet definitions for the latest versions of MC
20:57 < eddyb> haha
20:57 < eddyb> AnotherOne: that's just not going to work for you
20:57 < AnotherOne> why?
20:57 < eddyb> wtf, one file per packet? that's even worse, about hundred files instead of a small one
20:59 < AnotherOne> if something goes wrong, you will pay for your laze with fun debug time:)
21:00 < eddyb> you're afraid of debugging *as if* you're going to have to do debugging
21:00 < eddyb> my solution is hundreds of times smaller than yours
21:00 < eddyb> which means *at least* hundreds of times easier to debug
21:01 < AnotherOne> lol
21:01 < AnotherOne> nope
21:01 < dav1d> also it's a lot to type
21:01 < dav1d> I did it
21:01 < dav1d> and I regret it
21:01 < dav1d> the file had in the end 3.5k lines
21:01 < dav1d> only the server packets
21:01 < AnotherOne> i made code generator:)
21:01 < dav1d> https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/brala/network/packets/server.d
21:01 < dav1d> 274 lines and easy to maintain :)
21:02 < dav1d> I wanted to change all these classes to structs...
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21:04 < eddyb> AnotherOne: what code generator?
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21:04 < AnotherOne> that generates classes for packets
21:04 < eddyb> derp, I know what it would do
21:04 < eddyb> but how did you do it?
21:05 <+pdelvo> Im using runtime code generation to reduce meta programming, but my packet classes are to complex to generate
21:05 < eddyb> AnotherOne: https://gist.github.com/eddyb/9be5aa242e05ac7d609e and it's still bigger than PACKET(06, INT(x) INT(y) INT(z)), and it has no pack/unpack code
21:05 < eddyb> pdelvo: what language?
21:05 <+pdelvo> C#
21:05 < AnotherOne> http://pastebin.com/zLf2V9kJ
21:06 < eddyb> so what does that do? output C++ code?
21:06 <+pdelvo> https://github.com/pdelvo/Pdelvo.Minecraft/blob/master/Pdelvo.Minecraft.Protocol/PacketFactory.cs#L118 it is more or less code generation in il
21:06 < AnotherOne> yes
21:06 < eddyb> AnotherOne: you could have the same thing, in one short line, and without writing the file to disk
21:07 < dav1d> pdelvo: +1 for german comments
21:07 <+pdelvo> oh i got german comments on that... 
21:07 < eddyb> and if you really want codegen, I could repurpose my old mcsmp node.js lib to output C++ code
21:07 < eddyb> using C++ code to gen C++ source code is quite bad in my books
21:08 < AnotherOne> why?
21:08 < eddyb> brb, food, please ponder on metaprogramming
21:08 < AnotherOne> wait
21:08 < AnotherOne> show me please where PACKET is defined
21:08 < eddyb> that's the beauty
21:08 < eddyb> it's not :)
21:08 < eddyb> you define PACKET to whatever you want
21:08 < AnotherOne> oh i see
21:08 < eddyb> also the type macros
21:09 < eddyb> here is the struct generation: https://github.com/deoxxa/libmcnet/blob/master/include/mcnet/structs.h
21:09 -!- Yoshi2| [~chatzilla@xdsl-78-35-227-236.netcologne.de] has joined #mcdevs
21:09 < eddyb> you can see that define's and undef's are most of the files
21:10 -!- Yoshi2 [~chatzilla@xdsl-87-79-218-85.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
21:10 < AnotherOne> damn
21:10 -!- Yoshi2| is now known as Yoshi2
21:10 < eddyb> now really food, this talk and the lack of real work makes me hungry
21:10 < eddyb> read code https://github.com/deoxxa/libmcnet/blob/master/src/parser.c
21:10 < AnotherOne> i dont get that magic
21:13 < AnotherOne> damnit
21:13 < AnotherOne> it is better to have tons of code
21:14 -!- Yoshi2| [~chatzilla@xdsl-81-173-163-49.netcologne.de] has joined #mcdevs
21:14 < AnotherOne> than make macro magic
21:14 -!- Yoshi2 [~chatzilla@xdsl-78-35-227-236.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
21:14 <+pdelvo> it would be cool to have a json documentation which can be parsed to generate packet classes
21:15 < AnotherOne> i'll try to parse wiki later
21:15 <+pdelvo> to parse the wiki will be hard i think
21:15 < AnotherOne> once i have stable packet architecture
21:15 < AnotherOne> i love parsing
21:15 <+pdelvo> Regex <3 ?
21:16 < AnotherOne> especially hardcore pure c++ parsing
21:16 < AnotherOne> nope:)
21:16 < AnotherOne> not yet
21:16 <+pdelvo> regex is cool
21:16 < AnotherOne> yes
21:16 -!- Yoshi2 [~chatzilla@xdsl-81-173-160-195.netcologne.de] has joined #mcdevs
21:16 < AnotherOne> but i'm too lazy to get regex
21:16 < AnotherOne> i dont need it now
21:16 < AnotherOne> but i must do it
21:17 <+pdelvo> I think you will be faster when you 1. learn regex and then 2. use regex to parse it then parse it on your own
21:17 -!- Yoshi2|_ [~chatzilla@xdsl-78-35-198-220.netcologne.de] has joined #mcdevs
21:18 < AnotherOne> there are just html tables
21:19 -!- Yoshi2| [~chatzilla@xdsl-81-173-163-49.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
21:19 < dav1d> parsing from the wiki?
21:19 < dav1d> why
21:19 < dav1d> https://github.com/Wallbraker/PacketsJson
21:19 < dav1d> well 1.4.3
21:19 < AnotherOne> heh:D
21:19 < dav1d> but you could update it to 1.5.2 
21:20 < dav1d> wouldn't be a huge deal, I would think
21:20 < dav1d> s/deal/job/
21:20 < dav1d> also
21:20 < AnotherOne> oh damn
21:20 < dav1d> https://github.com/Wallbraker/PacketMaker
21:20 -!- Yoshi2 [~chatzilla@xdsl-81-173-160-195.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
21:20 < AnotherOne> so many new things
21:21 < dav1d> probably really fast adapted for c++
21:21 < eddyb> AnotherOne: once you get to learn a language like JS (ES6 is even better) - you can script things much better than your silly C++ code :P
21:21 < dav1d> pfft
21:21 < dav1d> Js
21:21 < AnotherOne> python power
21:21  * dav1d got an awesome JS job today
21:21 < dav1d> AnotherOne: indeed :)
21:21 < eddyb> python is just silly for these things
21:22 < dav1d> eddyb: why?
21:22 < eddyb> dav1d: that JSON is kinda verbose for me
21:22 -!- Yoshi2|_ [~chatzilla@xdsl-78-35-198-220.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
21:22 < dav1d> eddyb: json.loads() and I have a 1:1 representation of that in python data types
21:22 < AnotherOne> let the holy war begin
21:22 < dav1d> AnotherOne: ha we already had a few of these wars, eddyb and me
21:22 < eddyb> dav1d: I don't mean JSON in python
21:23 < dav1d> oh
21:23 < dav1d> for you
21:23 < eddyb> https://github.com/eddyb/node-mcsmp/blob/master/lib/protocol.js#L10
21:23 < dav1d> whatever gotta watch homeland (and I would do it in python :P)
21:23 < eddyb> what do you think?
21:23 < eddyb> dav1d: homeland is awesome and I'm sad it was canceled :(
21:23 < dav1d> REALLY
21:23 < dav1d> omg nooooo
21:23 < dav1d> about to finish season one
21:24 < dav1d> I love homeland so far
21:24 < AnotherOne> what is homeland?
21:24 < eddyb> a TV series
21:24 < eddyb> dav1d: I can output code easier than Wallbraker does, from my JS representation
21:24 < dav1d> man this sucks
21:25 < dav1d> eddyb: Dynamic vs. static language :)
21:25 < eddyb> no, I mean, doing the same thing
21:25 < dav1d> I think his approach was to have a base for generating code for every language
21:25 < eddyb> outputting code "to disk"
21:26 < eddyb> and my representation is easy to convert to the thing deoxxa uses, even with a regex
21:26 < AnotherOne> you say "to disk" as if it is something bad
21:26 < eddyb> I mean saving source code
21:26 < eddyb> for compilation at a later time
21:27 < AnotherOne> so why is generating c++ code in c++ bad?
21:27 < eddyb> because C++ isn't that good at string processing
21:27 < eddyb> at least not with STL, a custom solution might be better
21:29 < eddyb> in JS (and, I know, other scripting languages), you work with strings, as you would with integers in C++, and it has native regexps
21:29 <+pdelvo> getting all client -> server packets of your js file: client2server[^0-9]+((?<protocolid>[0-9]x[0-9A-Fa-f]{2}):\s*\[(?<types>.*?)\],?\s+)+
21:30 < eddyb> heh
21:30 < eddyb> I mean, copying the code then using regexp to replace to the format deoxxa used
21:30 < eddyb> v8 compiles regexps to native, which makes them one of the fastest string processing utilities ever (I heard D can compile regexps at compile-time, too)
21:30 < eddyb> oh, and, it's all dynamic
21:31 <+pdelvo> .net can do that too. even to a external dll if you want. but i think you really dont need this convertion ofden so performance should not be a problem here
21:31 < eddyb> I meant in general
21:31 < AnotherOne> hey pdevlo
21:31 <+pdelvo> hi
21:31 <+pdelvo> :D
21:32 < AnotherOne> say "pig" in german
21:32 < eddyb> you may be able to beat C parser code with regexps
21:32 <+pdelvo> Schwein
21:32 <+pdelvo> ? :D
21:32 < AnotherOne> die or der?
21:32 <+pdelvo> das
21:32 < dav1d> haha
21:32 < AnotherOne> oh
21:32 < AnotherOne> that german
21:33 <+pdelvo> xD
21:33 < AnotherOne> now i can say "du bist das Schwein"
21:33 < dav1d> german is a bitch (to lern)
21:33 < dav1d> AnotherOne: "du bist ein Schwein" :)
21:33 < AnotherOne> why so?
21:33 < AnotherOne> what is ein?
21:33 < dav1d> "a" = "ein" (english - german)
21:34 < eddyb> das being the
21:34 < dav1d> you are - "du bist", a - "ein", pig - "Schwein"
21:34 < eddyb> definite article vs indefinite article
21:34 < eddyb> amirite? (I know no german at all :P)
21:34 < dav1d> yes
21:35 < AnotherOne> for female "ein" too?
21:35 <+pdelvo> eine
21:35 < dav1d> AnotherOne: yes and no
21:35 < dav1d> it's complex
21:35 < dav1d> for your pig example yes
21:35 < dav1d> for e.g. for "bitch" no
21:35 < dav1d> it would be "eine"
21:36 < eddyb> du bist eine bietch
21:36 < AnotherOne> "bietch"
21:36 < AnotherOne> some kind of assimilation?
21:36 < AnotherOne> or native word?
21:36  * eddyb points AnotherOne to "(I know no german at all :P)"
21:37 < dav1d> well you could call that dialect
21:37 < dav1d> some people say it like that
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21:37 < dav1d> proper translation would be "Hure" or "Schlampe"
21:37 < eddyb> it's an "assimilating" made-up translation
21:37 <+pdelvo> more or less. you can use "Schlampe" or "Prostituierte", "Dirne", "Hure"
21:37 < eddyb> Hure is like hoe?
21:38 < AnotherOne> is there word "aa" meaning shit?
21:38 < AnotherOne> in german
21:38 <+pdelvo> if you talk to children < 5 years to might use that :D
21:38 < AnotherOne> heh
21:38 < dav1d> eddyb: I'd rather say "Schlampe" but yeah, these mean basically all the same
21:39 < AnotherOne> i saw that in dictionary
21:39 < dav1d> Schlampe is more spoken langauge
21:39 < dav1d> well "Dirne" wouldn't be a translation for bitch in bavaria
21:39 < AnotherOne> dat bavaria
21:39 < dav1d> :P
21:40 < dav1d> AnotherOne: "aa" = shit, kinda, children might say that
21:40 < dav1d> oh well pdelvo already answered that
21:40 < AnotherOne> i got it:)
21:40 < AnotherOne> but i saw this in dictionary
21:40 < eddyb> lol
21:40 < AnotherOne> thought about "real" word
21:41 <+pdelvo> Im really sure people in germany would laugh if you use it :D
21:41 < AnotherOne> :D
21:41 < AnotherOne> and "kake"?
21:42 <+pdelvo> depends on what you want to say. 
21:42 < AnotherOne> shit
21:42 <+pdelvo> "Oh shit!" can be translated to "Oh Kacke"
21:43 < dav1d> shit = "Scheisse" 
21:43 <+pdelvo> but if you want to say that you were on a toilett it is not used. 
21:43 < dav1d> Ich geh mal scheissen
21:44 < dav1d> ^ vulgar sentence for, I need to poop
21:44 < eddyb> ok guys
21:44 < eddyb> enough shit talk
21:44 < AnotherOne> lol
21:44 <+pdelvo> I know some more vilgar ones :D
21:44 < eddyb> I'm outta here, sleep time (been getting like 4 hours as of late, it sucks D:)
21:44 < AnotherOne> is '?' used in moderb german?
21:44 < AnotherOne> modern*
21:44 < AnotherOne> good night
21:45 < eddyb> I see a question mark
21:45 < eddyb> is ? used in modern german?
21:45 < AnotherOne> oh
21:45 <+pdelvo> question marks are very common after a question
21:45 < eddyb> haha
21:45 < jast> you probably mean ß? looks a bit like greek beta?
21:45 < jast> yes, it is
21:45 < AnotherOne> yes
21:46 < eddyb> it has to do something with W, since AltGr+W = ß
21:46 < eddyb> or SS
21:46 < jast> no relation to W
21:46 < jast> it's a ligature of ss or sz, depending on the font
21:46 < dav1d> ß
21:47 < dav1d> yes it is used
21:47 < AnotherOne> heh
21:47 < dav1d> but the rules are kinda complex 
21:47 < jast> not anymore, they aren't
21:47 < dav1d> well not kinda complex, they are
21:47 < jast> thanks to our newly regulated spelling
21:47 < dav1d> jast: neue rechtschreibung?
21:47 -!- eddyb [~eddy@unaffiliated/eddyb] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
21:47 < dav1d> oh well, I learned it the old way, maybe they changed the rules
21:47 < dav1d> still used to the old
21:48 <+pdelvo> I write it the way I think the word "look right"
21:48 < jast> now it's very simple: in a place where you might think about using ß, it's ß if the preceding vowel is long (in pronunciation) or a combined vowel (e.g. 'ei'); otherwise it's 'ss'
21:49 < AnotherOne> http://www.design.caltech.edu/erik/Misc/Twain_english.html
21:49 < AnotherOne> why no always ss?
21:50 <+pdelvo> dont ask us why the german orthography is how it is :D
21:50 < jast> for hysterical raisins
21:50 < jast> for extra fun: there is no uppercase ß, so in all caps it's always 'SS'
21:50 <+pdelvo> to make it hard to learn
21:51 -!- Cay [~OlofLarss@s83-177-171-150.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:51 < jast> various attempts to introduce an uppercase ß have not met any noteworthy adoption
21:51 <+pdelvo> if you would always use ss instead of ß you would have problems with e.g. "Maße" and "Masse"
21:52 < dav1d> I like the ß
21:52 < dav1d> the "sharp s" :
21:52 < dav1d> :D
21:52 < jast> for the history of the letter (both the glyph and the usage of it), see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9F
21:52 <+pdelvo> "Maße" - Dimensions, "Masse" - mass
21:52 < jast> yeah, that's a problem
21:53 < AnotherOne> dat irc
21:53 < AnotherOne> i see russian letter in first word
21:53 < dav1d> also a "Mass"
21:53 < dav1d> actually Maß
21:53 < AnotherOne> can i set unicode in kvirc?
21:54 < dav1d> one liter delicious beer
21:54 < dav1d> AnotherOne: I think you can set it to utf-8
21:54 < dav1d> if not, this irc client is strange 
21:54 < jast> The pre-1996 orthography encouraged the use of SZ in place of ß in words with all letters capitalized where a usual SS would produce an ambiguous result. One possible ambiguity was between IN MASZEN (in limited amounts; Maß, "measure") and IN MASSEN (in massive amounts; Masse, "mass").
21:54 < jast> I didn't even know that
22:05 <+clonejo> jast: There is an uppercase ß: ẞ
22:05 < jast> there is, but it's not really used by anyone worth mentioning
22:05 < jast> nor is it "official"
22:05 <+clonejo> I can type it on my keyboard
22:05 < jast> in other news, TIL that the new spelling rules for ß were initially conceived around the same time the previous rules were
22:05 < jast> give or take a few decades
22:06 < jast> but basically in the 18th~19th century
22:22 < dx> dammit
22:22 < dx> pdelvo: why is your nick so similar to pbunny, i thought he had returned :(
22:22 < dav1d> lol
22:23 < dx> i should mention that i slept 45 mins in the last 24 hours
22:23 <+pdelvo> Im sorry that my name is similar to his ones :(
22:23 < dx> :(
22:24 < dx> to be fair eddyb looks like an inverted pbunny too
22:24 <+pdelvo> there is one char in my name that is in pbunnys name
22:25 < dx> hmm that too
22:25 < dx> but i was considering the b, flipped to look like a p
22:25 < dx> i need sleep badly
22:26 < dx> but i have to go do stuff irl in a while :(
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23:26 <+md_5> mornin'
23:27 <+pdelvo> good morning
23:27 <+md_5> gizmodo.com.au broken for anyone else?
23:27 <+md_5> no css
23:28 <+pdelvo> looks okay for me
23:31 <+md_5> hmm just on firefox
23:31 <+md_5> odd
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00:24 < AnotherOne> oh, nice snapshot
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--- Log opened ven. mai 24 05:15:40 2013
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08:40 <+md_5> I'm sorry
08:40 <+md_5> pardon my french
08:40 <+md_5> but the new chat system is FUCKED
08:41 <+md_5> absolutely
08:41 <+md_5> even a plain user chat message is a json encoded format string
08:41  * md_5 goes to hang sell
08:41 <+md_5> self
08:41 <+md_5> this is so
08:41 < Yoshi2> json encoded? wow
08:41 <+md_5> unbelieavably
08:41 <+md_5> stupid
08:41 <+md_5> what
08:42 <+md_5> the
08:42 <+md_5> actual
08:42 < Yoshi2> what do they want to achieve with that?
08:42 <+md_5> you have to send
08:42 <+md_5> like a 500 byte json
08:42 <+md_5> to say 'a' into chat
08:42 <+md_5> and then you have to apply String.format(..) to it
08:42 <+md_5> after json decoding it
08:43 < Yoshi2> what data does the json string contain? o.O
08:43 <+md_5> https://gist.github.com/Dinnerbone/5631634
08:43 <+md_5> EVEN A PLAIN CHAT MESSAGE IS 'translated'
08:45 < Yoshi2> hmm, I think I understand what they are trying to do here
08:45 < Yoshi2> but it is still weird
08:51 < AnotherOne> omfg
08:52 < AnotherOne> and those people made ints * 8 instead of doubles
08:52 < SinZ> wat
08:52 < AnotherOne> http://www.wiki.vg/Protocol#Named_Sound_Effect_.280x3E.29
08:53 < AnotherOne> i like the way mojang tries to save traffic
08:53 < AnotherOne> -8b per sound effect, +500b per chat message
08:53 < AnotherOne> -12*
08:53 < SinZ> well, since sound effects used to be client side only
08:54 <+md_5> oh
08:54 <+md_5> and then retarded things
08:54 <+md_5> like: "Cannot sleep here:" is a special packet, not chat message.
08:54 < AnotherOne> heh
08:55 < AnotherOne> well this is indie game
08:55 < Yoshi2> 500 bytes might be an exaggeration, but it looks like the new json format adds some considerable overhead which can be as high as twice the size of the old message or more
08:55 <+SpaceManiac> it's pretty ridiculous
08:55 <+md_5> uh
08:55 <+md_5> well each char is 2 bytes
08:55 <+md_5> so a chat message
08:55 <+md_5> is probably 150 bytes extra
08:56 < AnotherOne> if they want, they make special packet for anything, if they want, they put a picture of nam fucking goose to menu screen
08:56 < AnotherOne> man*
08:57 <+Fador> well, every change in the inventory used to send full inventory as NBT
08:57 <+Fador> same with chests
09:00 < AnotherOne> lazy, lazy mojang
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09:16 < Not-001> [PartyCraft] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/yfSCxg
09:16 < Not-001> [PartyCraft] SirCmpwn 7e30d2e - Update Craft.Net submodule
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09:47 < TobiX> Why not convert the whole protocol to JSON? :)
09:50 < Not-001> [PartyCraft] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+6/-1/±6] http://git.io/RvTmNg
09:50 < Not-001> [PartyCraft] SirCmpwn 4e4e5f2 - Added basic runtime-compiled plugin support
09:57 < AnotherOne> really, why not?:)
09:59 <+Fador> no, it has to be converted to XML!
10:02 < Not-001> [PartyCraft] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+2/-0/±2] http://git.io/RKTeGQ
10:02 < Not-001> [PartyCraft] SirCmpwn ea14342 - Removed boilerplate from scripts
10:07 < Not-001> [PartyCraft] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/hU8-7w
10:07 < Not-001> [PartyCraft] SirCmpwn 310fb68 - Added distinction between compiled and evaluated scripts
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10:10 < Not-001> [wiki] Edit by SirCmpwn to Server List -> http://tinyurl.com/nzrhhfb
10:10  * Kyle is curious
10:11 < Kyle> Isn't SirCmpwn still banned? Why is his project still on the botlist for this channel? heh
10:17 < Not-001> [wiki] Edit by Thinkofdeath to Server List -> http://tinyurl.com/nurjhcw
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10:20 < jast> why is he banned btw?
10:20 < Kyle> jast: he finally pushed it too far.
10:21 < jast> I don't think notifico has a mechanism that allows channel ops to get rid of entries that target their channel
10:21 < Kyle> jast: /me notes TkTech owns Notifico and can easily fix that
10:21 < jast> well okay, but *what* did he push :)
10:21 < Kyle> and that might be a good feature.
10:21 < jast> yeah
10:21 < Kyle> An ability for a channel op to request an easy removal on the website then confirm in channel while opped with something like Not-001: verify sometokenhere
10:22 < Kyle> TkTech: ^
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10:24 < TobiX> Fador: Well, it worked quite well for XMPP (which isn't the nicest XML around, but it works[tm])
10:26 < TobiX> FWIW I don't think Minecraft needs a binary protocol at all. Bandwidth is not the main problem for MC's performance... (IMHO, not benchmarked)
10:28 < jast> except it sends two billion packets per second
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10:29 < jast> Kyle: that would actually require quite a bit of extra state tracking, presumably
10:31 < Calinou> 20 ticks/second for a mining-style game! oh yes!
10:31 < Calinou> ^ reason of lag :P
10:32 < jast> TCP-based protocol
10:32 < jast> ^ reason for lag
10:33 < AnotherOne> mojang
10:33 < AnotherOne> ^ reason for lag
10:33 < Calinou> also, TCP
10:33 < Calinou> TCP for real time games is a bad idea
10:33 < Calinou> yet a few people seem to support it
10:34 < AnotherOne> variants?
10:34 < AnotherOne> UDP?
10:36 < AnotherOne> *logging in to game server, shoot, shoot shoot, enemy teleports, YOU ARE DEAD! whoops, healt update*
10:36 < jast> UDP is fairly low-level, so yeah, that'll work better, though it means extra work for you
10:36 < TobiX> AnotherOne: Since all other protocols (!TCP or UDP) have very bad OS support, UDP would be the prefered choice...
10:36 < jast> there are other, less commonly used (and supported) protocols that might be a better fit
10:37 < TobiX> SCTP?
10:40 < AnotherOne> wtf std::copy does not work
10:40 <+ammar2> Kyle: does it really matter if his project's commits still show up here? It's not like he's abusing it to distrupt this channel or anything
10:40 < AnotherOne> oh it does
10:40 <+ammar2> Calinou: who supports tcp? ;_;
10:41 < jast> mojang does!
10:41 < jast> because, you know, UDP isn't reliable !!111!1
10:42 < Kyle> ammar2: Just curious is all, I saw a wall of text :p
10:42 <+ammar2> oh no the player skipped a movement packet and moved by 0.3 more blocks, quite the travesty
10:42 <+Fador> TCP_NODELAY fixed lag on my server ;)
10:42 < jast> if your connection is good, that's all fine and dandy
10:43 < Calinou> there is nearly no PL with a good connection, AnotherOne 
10:43 < Calinou> less than 1%
10:43 < AnotherOne> TCP_NODELAY + minecraft protocol = net rape
10:43 < jast> if it's not, suddenly because of TCP you not only receive a packet for each tick (or some such madness); you also re-receive multiple packets if just one gets lost
10:43 < jast> that's tons of overhead
10:43 < AnotherOne> ^
10:44 < jast> whereas with a delta-type UDP protocol, you just don't care about the lost packet
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10:49 < AnotherOne> i've improved my code generator
10:50 < AnotherOne> looks like next step will be reading wiki
10:50 < TobiX> jast: But you would have to make all position updates absolute. That's "inefficient" ;)
10:50 < SinZ> lol, just saw pbunnys website for his server software
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10:50 < jast> nah, just relative to the last acknowledged packet
10:51 < SinZ> I *hate* working with udp sockets
10:51 < jast> poor you
10:51 < AnotherOne> so what about packet order, jast?
10:52 < AnotherOne> tell us the ultimate secret how to rule udp
10:52 < jast> if you use a delta encoding with reference to a base, order is irrelevant
10:52 < jast> well, I didn't make this stuff up
10:52 < jast> all the big names in networked games do this
10:53 < jast> for instance, https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Source_Multiplayer_Networking
10:54 < jast> there are a few additional challenges in minecraft, of course, due to the larger data amount
10:54 < jast> but nothing that's fundamentally impossible
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10:57 < AnotherOne> damn
10:57 < AnotherOne> where is my little console programming world...
10:57 < CandidaMaster> hi
10:57 < jast> for example, to prevent having to retransmit a full snapshot during short-term heavy packet loss, you could increase the window for client state tracking
10:57 < AnotherOne> hi
10:58 < Calinou> MLCPW, my little console programming world :3
10:59 < jast> and full snapshots could be more strongly compressed than they currently are, most likely
10:59 < jast> none of that is trivial, but it's still doable
10:59 < AnotherOne> i like this channel
11:00 < AnotherOne> everyone here knows how to make minecraft better than mojang:)
11:00 < AnotherOne> i wish mojang listened to you
11:00 < Calinou> hello phoronix forums user
11:00 < SinZ> AnotherOne: everyone here thinks*
11:00 < Calinou> AMD drivers are shit amirite
11:00 < jast> I'm sure they know a lot, too
11:00 < jast> but coming up with a solution is much less work than actually implementing it
11:01 < jast> and if you have limited resources, you have to prioritize
11:01 < AnotherOne> sacrificing performance
11:01 < AnotherOne> who cares about performance today...
11:01 < jast> (by which I mean limited *developer time*)
11:02 < AnotherOne> heh
11:02 < AnotherOne> fukk it guys thank you all
11:03 < AnotherOne> you gave me much experience
11:03 < jast> not to mention that rumour has it that the minecraft codebase isn't exactly the thing you want to do such huge changes to
11:04 < Calinou> suddenly: MCP
11:04 < Calinou> no rumors 4 u
11:04 < Yoshi2> I can imagine that
11:04 < Yoshi2> some pieces of code are so fragile, the slightest change could break everything
11:05 < AnotherOne> dirty java hacks
11:05 < jast> java has nothing to do with it
11:06 < jast> *any* program will get hard to maintain after a year or two of shifting requirements
11:06 < jast> if you don't invest substantial amounts of time into refactoring along the way
11:06 < AnotherOne> yes
11:17 < AnotherOne> damn tcp
11:17 < AnotherOne> im so tired of reworking my protocol lib
11:20 < Calinou> lolprotocollib
11:20 < Calinou> we now have 252 of them
11:21 < Calinou> ~protocollib random 3
11:21 < Calinou> PonyLib, enet, AnotherOneAwesomeLIB
11:22 < AnotherOne> heh
11:22 < SinZ> automatically being generated from wiki or gtfo
11:23 < AnotherOne> nope
11:23 < AnotherOne> modularity or gtfo
11:23 < AnotherOne> to be able generate packets from wiki i must have stable architecture
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13:01 < Not-001> [wiki] Edit by Thinkofdeath to Client List -> http://tinyurl.com/qfcth4p
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13:16 < Not-001> [wiki] Edit by Thinkofdeath to Library List -> http://tinyurl.com/px75wk7
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13:18 < Not-001> [wiki] Edit by Thinkofdeath to Utility List -> http://tinyurl.com/p6lrb6x
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13:30 < Not-001> [wiki] Edit by Clonejo to Server List -> http://tinyurl.com/pse49sk
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14:23 < redu> asdasdasdqwee
14:23 <+pdelvo> qwert
14:23 < redu> mine was longer
14:33 < TobiX> >>>--------->knee
14:34 < SinZ> That's not even friendly!
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15:20 < Grum> < AnotherOne> i wish mojang listened to you <-- we do
15:23 < TobiX> \o/
15:24 < Grum>  /o\
15:24 < Yoshi2> \o\
15:25 < Grum> _oX
15:25 < Grum> hmm something bad happened there :)
15:32 < dav1d> lol
15:37 < TobiX> I raise to laola: https://gist.github.com/TobiX/5643558 ;)
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16:47 < nastyCreeper> hi
16:49 < SinZ> hi..
16:51 < nastyCreeper> how are you today SinZ
16:59 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 4 commits to master [+1/-0/±8] http://git.io/Gq6C2Q
16:59 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath e6b63dd - Maybe not...
16:59 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath f015a1b - Made the creative inventory work
16:59 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 0606e1e - Simplified lighting
16:59 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 9e15406 - Add debug info to lighting
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17:04 < Not-001> [mc-erl] clonejo pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-0/±0] http://git.io/ld7s5Q
17:04 < Not-001> [mc-erl] clonejo 2dd78a9 - implemented eid registry
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18:15 < Not-001> [mc-erl] clonejo pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-1/±18] http://git.io/Kr_g_g
18:15 < Not-001> [mc-erl] clonejo 880f329 - mc-erl is now officially licensed under the terms of the GNU General Public License, nbt (MIT licensed) moved out as dependency
18:15 <+clonejo> \o/
18:18 < Not-001> [wiki] Edit by Clonejo to Server List -> http://tinyurl.com/oysy54y
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18:29 < Not-001> [PartyCraft] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-0/±3] http://git.io/m7cJlg
18:29 < Not-001> [PartyCraft] SirCmpwn 3fdf0dc - Added REPL mode for in-game scripting
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18:49 < AnotherOne> evening
18:49 <+pdelvo> hi
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19:20 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 3 commits to master [+0/-0/±22] http://git.io/idLHjA
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19:20 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 077dac9 - Reverted to old lighting system
19:21 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 339605c - Minor changes
19:21 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 35f7485 - Tidy up
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20:22 -!- mode/#mcdevs [+o TkTech] by ChanServ
20:23 -!- mode/#mcdevs [-b *r04r*!*@*$##fix_your_connection] by TkTech
20:23 -!- mode/#mcdevs [-o TkTech] by ChanServ
20:23 <+SpaceManiac> glad I've fixed my Linux box to not be /that/ connection broken
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20:31 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: http://i.imgur.com/o1RsYCS.jpg :)
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21:02 < dx> "If chat is such a significant resource hog for your custom server, thread it"
21:02 < dx> this reasoning annoys me
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21:10 < dx> also dinnerbro said "We already had json handling" - can someone tell me where? if it was introduced recently i haven't heard of it
21:12 < Wulfspider> mmm I saw it somewhere
21:13 < Wulfspider> You were wanting the json feed dx?
21:13 < dx> Wulfspider: what json feed?
21:14 < Wulfspider> "We already had json handling" 
21:14 < Wulfspider> Thought that's what you were referring to
21:14 < dx> i'm asking what part of the minecraft code and/or protocol depends on a json library
21:14 <+ammar2> in reference to the new chat stuff using json
21:14 < Wulfspider> Ahh
21:15 < dx> dinnerbro justifies it saying we "already" have json somewhere, but where?
21:17 < dx> also, uhm... i know a lot of people hate NBT for being a made-up format but since bandwidth usage is an issue for a lot of admins, wouldn't it be more suitable than json? 
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21:19 < dx> i suspect that i'm ignorant regarding the weaknesses of the format (i just know how it works in theory, but never dealt directly with serialization myself), so if anyone can enlighten me i'd appreciate it
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21:21 < dx> IMO the main advantage of using json is that it's trivial to debug by looking at tcp streams, but if this is going to be in the middle of the minecraft protocol... that advantage is pointless
21:25 < Yoshi2> it looks like json is used to tell the client how to display specific parts of a chat message
21:25 <+ammar2> dx: its a pretty barebones format, its not that bad to handle its just annoying in that there's no need for yet another format
21:26 < dx> Yoshi2: except that json is wrapping every single chat message
21:27 < dx> ammar2: heh, then it's funny that now that the unneeded format was invented and is available in most minecraft-related code, dinnerbro chooses another format... which isn't needed... but wasn't invented either
21:28 <+ammar2> Yoshi2: Sending "<ammar2> Hello, world!" now turns into '{"translate": "chat.type.chat","using": ["ammar2","Hello, world!"]}'
21:32 < dx> i don't even know why those messages use translation templates
21:33 < dx> i mean.. the template is going to be "<%s> %s" for every language
21:33 < dx> i don't think translations are for that
21:33 <+clonejo> I guess, there is also a "%s" template
21:39 < dx> {"text": ["<", "ammar2", "> ", "Hello world!"]} is valid with this system
21:40 < dx> or if you don't care about parsing nick/message individually: {"text": ["<ammar2> Hello world!"]}
21:41 < Not-001> [PartyCraft] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/aWmHqg
21:41 < Not-001> [PartyCraft] SirCmpwn 51dceec - Improved REPL
21:41 < dx> just the string "<ammar2> Hello world!" with quotes includes is valid json, too, but would require the other side to expect json strings, not just json objects, and there's no way to support formatting then
21:41 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/kcviSg
21:41 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 4132736 - Added MinecraftClient.MoveTo
21:42 < dx> shut up sircmpwn you aren't even here
21:43 <+ammar2> dx: maybe we should use html for chat, that would be fun
21:45 <+clonejo> encode it in whitespace!
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21:48 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/2JDLiQ
21:48 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 38f03b7 - Cancel current client move operation before starting another
21:49 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/YOd-4g
21:49 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 2ab8fa6 - Reponse to cancellation request
21:51 < dx> ammar2: :D
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21:51 < dx> hmm
21:52 < dx> most irc networks block connections from open proxies, but do they block connections from people connected to webchat through open proxies?
21:52 < dx> i guess the webchat is in charge of blocking that
21:55 <+ammar2> dx: I do wonder how multiple colours with say {"text": ["<", "ammar2", "> ", "Hello world!"]} would work
21:55 < Kyle> dx: correct
21:55 < Kyle> dx: because of how the spoofing/webirc works, the ircd doesn't really know or care if the user is a webchat user or not
21:55 < Kyle> and once on the network, there are some cases where it's ultimately impossible to know
21:56 < Kyle> all checks proceed as normal
21:56 < Kyle> (freenode marks webchat users as such, but that doesn't need to be the case)
21:56 < dx> Kyle: you're saying the ircd will run the proxy check against the spoofed IP because it doesn't matter?
21:57 < Kyle> dx: It doesn't care/know it's "spoofed"
21:57 < Kyle> dx: https://github.com/atheme/charybdis/blob/master/extensions/m_webirc.c
21:57 < dx> lol i wasn't expecting that to be so short
21:57 < Kyle> dx: the webchat sends WEBIRC and the users real IP/Host, the ircd just goes "OK, " and once it actually gets to checking it uses the spoofed host.
21:58 < Kyle> which in this case is the real host :p
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21:58 < dx> Kyle: i want an API like that for minecraft proxies :D
21:58 < Kyle> dx: *shrug* heh
21:58 < dx> yeah, sorry for the sudden topic change
21:59 < dx> but i actually started writing a bukkit plugin that did very evil stuff to make the server think the client connected from a different IP
21:59 < Kyle> Just stating my knowledge on how it works for a majority of networks that use ratbox based ircds :p
21:59 < dx> as with everything i didn't get it to a useful state
22:00 <+ammar2> dx: but yeah, I couldn't find json anywhere
22:00 < dx> ammar2: damn dinnerbro trolling us
22:00 <+ammar2> you should ping him and find out :)
22:01 < dx> ammar2: i wonder if it's okay to pi-
22:01 < dx> lol
22:01 < Kyle> dx: in the end, 15:52 < dx> i guess the webchat is in charge of blocking that -- the ircd does it all as if it was a normal client, the webchat does nothing but translate the HTTP to IRC, :p
22:02 < dx> Kyle: yep, so i wasn't correct :P
22:03 < Kyle> dx: I hadn't caught that line before I said correct :p
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22:05 <+clonejo> hahahaha: https://github.com/clonejo/mc-erl/blob/master/src/mc_erl_client.erl#L64
22:05 < Calinou> lol erlang
22:05 <+clonejo> this line tells the client handler to wait 2 seconds before spawning the client after login -.-
22:06 < dx> oh, thanks for the translation
22:06 < dx> git blame says clonejo 2012-12-17
22:06 <+clonejo> yep
22:06 <+clonejo> shame on me
22:07 <+clonejo> spawning will probably be faster in the future
22:07 < dx> remember kids the ballmer peak is not a real thing
22:08 < Yoshi2> it isn't real? :(
22:15 < Morrolan> clonejo: You should make this configurable on a per-player basis, to be used by the server admin against annoying players. ;)
22:16 < Morrolan> "What, it takes you ten seconds to spawn? It's fine for me, must be your connection. :)"
22:16 < redu> :D
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22:25 < TkTech> dx: I don't think you're allowed to say that without some proof.
22:25 < TkTech> dx: Track 1000 devs and their commit activity while drinking.
22:27 < Kyle> http://www.commitlogsfromlastnight.com/
22:28 < dx> TkTech: hahaha, for a sec i thought you were talking about some of the nbt/json crap i said
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22:45 < AnotherOne> activity != quality
22:45 < AnotherOne> as we seen some time before
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--- Day changed sam. mai 25 2013
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01:01 <+Prf_Jakob> http://www.minecraft.org/ <-- well that page isn't confusing at all.
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01:14 <+clonejo> Morrolan: hehe
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02:16 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: One form to ICANN and they'll lose that domain.
02:18 < Not-001> [wiki] Edit by Aadnk to Entities -> http://tinyurl.com/o5vt2kh
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02:29 < zutto> TkTech: no, mojang would have to go to court before they could shut down that domain
02:29 < zutto> just one form isnt enough
02:30 < TkTech> You don't have to "go" to court, you just have to file at court.
02:30 < TkTech> http://www.icann.org/en/help/dndr/udrp
02:30 < zutto> yah, you need court ruling for them to remove it
02:30 < zutto> but thats pretty much all it takes
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04:16 < Seegee_> Hey
04:16 < Seegee_> Anyone here?
04:18 <+md_5> maybe
04:18 <+md_5> maybe not
04:19 < Seegee_> Are you the real md5 :o
04:19 <+md_5> yes
04:19 <+md_5> how is it going?
04:20 < Seegee_> Good, how about you?
04:20 < Seegee_> I am having trouble sending login packets.
04:20 < Seegee_> Do you think you would be able to help?
04:21  * SpaceManiac whistles
04:21 <+md_5> yeah, just ask about what exactly you need help with / show sample code
04:23 < Seegee_> well basically, I send the handshake packet, and then the login packet, but my server simply says "connection lost"
04:23 < Seegee_> Let me get my code for you
04:23 < Seegee_> Ill pastebin it
04:24 <+md_5> you cant send the login packet after the login packet
04:24 < Seegee_> What?
04:24 < Seegee_> http://pastebin.com/nA3SXYtC
04:24 <+md_5> there is a sequence to follow: http://www.wiki.vg/Protocol_Encryption
04:24 <+md_5> involves encryption and fancy stuff
04:24 <+md_5> are you a client or server?
04:25 < Seegee_> Client
04:25 <+md_5> what are you tryingto make? the code is a bit bleugh and will cause issues if it gets over 100 lines
04:25 < Seegee_> Oh, I am connecting to a non premium server for now, so I skipped the whole user encryption part.
04:25 < Seegee_> For now, im just trying to get a user in the server with the login packet :)
04:26 < Seegee_> Or atleast get it to give me "bad packet ID" or something besides lost connection.
04:26 <+md_5> Seegee_ send handshake followed by: {0xCD, 0x00}
04:26 <+md_5> should get you im
04:26 <+md_5> server will reply with login packet
04:27 < Seegee_> Just making sure, the handshake is 0x02 right...
04:27 <+md_5> yes
04:27 <+md_5> also using a Bytebuffer is probably a bit silly
04:27 <+md_5> also: tring messageToSend = username + ";" + "209.222.92.14" + ":" + "25565";
04:27 <+md_5> is not the 1.5.2 handshake packet
04:28 < Seegee_> How is the 1.5.2 packet formatted...
04:28 <+md_5> http://www.wiki.vg/Protocol#0x02
04:28 < Seegee_> I found that somewhere
04:28 < Seegee_> Ok, let me try that.
04:28 < Seegee_> out.writeByte(0x02); //Write the packet ID out.writeShort(messageToSend.length() + 1); //Prefix with length of string out.writeChars(messageToSend); //Write the string
04:28 < Seegee_> That is the right order to send it in right?
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04:32 < Seegee_> Should I even send it as one string.. Or should I send each "field" of the packet separate. 
04:34 <+md_5> Seegee_ here is some exampl code: http://paste.md-5.net/rekekuveho.java
04:35 < Seegee_> Ok, so I should send each value seperate.:)
04:35 < Seegee_> Thanks :). Ill look over that and get back to you.
04:41 < Seegee_> md_5, I tried what you said and I am still getting "lost connection"
04:41 < Seegee_> The client throws a Connection Reset error
04:41  * md_5 didnt test the code
04:42 < Seegee_> xD
04:42 < Seegee_> It seems to be sending it just as the protocol documentation says...
04:44 <+md_5> ah
04:44 <+md_5> writeString should be:         out.writeShort(s.length());
04:44 <+md_5> short not byte
04:44 <+md_5> and packetId should be :  int packetId = in.readUnsignedByte();
04:44 <+md_5> unsigned byte
04:46 < Seegee_> Yay :) 
04:46 < Seegee_> Its a start
04:46 < Seegee_> It says expecting login packet though, let me see what packet ID it is actually receiving back
04:49 <+md_5> Seegee_ fixed it: http://paste.md-5.net/yivivifija.java
04:53 < Seegee_> Oh my, it works :D
04:54 < Seegee_> Just wondering, what bytes are you skipping
04:54 < Seegee_> When you are getting the packetId?
04:55 <+md_5> http://www.wiki.vg/Protocol#0xFD
04:55 <+md_5> skipping the public key and verif token
04:55 <+md_5> since you arent using encryoption
04:59 < Seegee_> Ok :) Thanks for the explanation.
05:00 < Seegee_> One more quick question, why do I get Connection Reset or EFOException errors if I try to connect more than once quickly.
05:00 < Seegee_> EOF*
05:02 <+md_5> because by default the server has a connection throttle
05:02 <+md_5> one connection per IP every 4 seconsd
05:02 <+md_5> if you run bukkit/spigot you can edit that in bukkit.yml
05:02 < Seegee_> Ahh ok, thats what I figured.
05:09 < Seegee_> Ok, so If I were to go about keeping a player in the game, I would have to use some sort of keep alive packet correct?
05:10 <+md_5> yeah
05:10 <+md_5> just spam packet 0x00 and a random int
05:10 <+md_5> btw, if you want to make your client respond to stuff from the server
05:10 <+md_5> you have to implement every single MC packet. there are 81 of them
05:12 < Seegee_> Well for now I am just trying to get a player standing in the server :) From what I read here, It tells me the server will send me the keep alive packet and I would need to respond with the same packet: http://www.wiki.vg/Protocol#Keep_Alive_.280x00.29
05:12 < Seegee_> Is it the other way around?
05:15 <+md_5> Seegee_ well since you are not reading the servers packets, yes
05:15 <+md_5> just send your own keep alives
05:17 < Seegee_> Ok, that seems to work. thanks. How often would I need to send the keep alive packet?
05:26 <+md_5> Seegee_ every 30 secs should do
05:27 < Seegee_> Would it be a good idea to do it in a different thread?
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05:45 < Seegee_> Hey +md_5, which packet would I have to look into to add items to a users inventory from their "creative mode" inventory. (server is on creative mode) Im trying to get him to place a block :D I know that I can place the actual block with 0x0E, but do I need to get it in my inventory? Or can I place it directly from "creative mode"
05:46 <+md_5> read the wiki page, no idea
05:47 < Seegee_> Im currently looking at it, I cant seem to find anything about adding blocks to the inventory.
05:49 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/HMCkEg
05:49 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] aholmes 12c2633 - Fix server crash when sending packets to disconnected clients #155
05:49 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn ebaa56f - Merge pull request #156 from aholmes/master Fix issue #155
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06:11 < Seegee_> Hey guys, Im looking at the 0x07 Use Entity packet and one of the fields is "target". The example is "1805". How would I target a specific user?
06:12 < Seegee_> Or just the person closest
06:12 <+md_5> you would need to get their entity ID
06:12 <+md_5> and to do this you need to be able t read all 81 MC packets
06:12 <+md_5> this isnt a weekend project
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07:24 < AnotherOne> morning
07:24 < AnotherOne> no it isn't
07:25 < AnotherOne> it isn't weekend project at all:)
07:26 < AnotherOne> heh md_5 you scared a newcomer:)
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07:36 <+md_5> AnotherOne it was just my awesomenmess
07:36 <+md_5> <Seegee_> Are you the real md5 :o
07:36 < AnotherOne> you are famous lol
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07:38 <+md_5> AnotherOne am I really? did you know me....
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07:49 < AnotherOne> nope
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08:11 < AnotherOne> ByteBuffer buffer = ByteBuffer.allocate(20 + 6 + 1);
08:11 < AnotherOne> is it ok in c#?
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08:50 < dx> Seegee_ thought md_5 was the "real" hashing algorithm
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09:50 < dx> god damn it
09:50 < dx> never trust text boxes in websites. NEVER.
09:51 < dx> finally decided to finish writing the comment on the new chat packets gist in github, clicked preview to see if i got markdown right, and it decided to refresh the page
09:52 < dx> i don't feel like writing it all again...
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10:35 < dx> i do have some personal issues with large textboxes
10:35 < dx> i think most of the time i use those to write stuff that is tl;dr for most people
10:41 < dx> okay sent'd https://gist.github.com/Dinnerbone/5631634#comment-834845
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10:51 < AnotherOne> oh
10:51 < AnotherOne> yep, i remember that burning butthurt of losing big amount of text
10:52 < AnotherOne> dx
10:52 < AnotherOne> do you think you wont be just ignored?
10:53 < dx> you're such a nice person AnotherOne
10:53 < AnotherOne> im just a realist
10:53 < AnotherOne> nobody cares
10:54 < dx> a bunch of people in this channel would diagree with you
10:55 < dx> i write big amounts of text for everything btw
10:55 < AnotherOne> well, i will be glad if your text will change something
10:55 < dx> my facebook friends hate me for that
10:55 < AnotherOne> lol
10:55 < AnotherOne> oh yes
10:55 < AnotherOne> my code generator is almost done
10:55 < Yoshi2> hm, what text are you two talking about?
10:56 < AnotherOne> [11:40:53] <dx> okay sent'd https://gist.github.com/Dinnerbone/5631634#comment-834845
10:56 < AnotherOne> dx's butth... dislike of new chat
10:56 < dx> i'd kick you if i could
10:56 < dx> seriously, politeness first
10:56 < AnotherOne> oh sorry
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11:02 < AnotherOne> for exapmle: http://pastebin.com/WtZtfW7w turns to http://pastebin.com/vNpwELPd http://pastebin.com/ykFqDTY2
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11:12 < AnotherOne> hey people, i have an idea but cannot check it
11:13 < AnotherOne> http://www.wiki.vg/Protocol#Use_Bed_.280x11.29 , unknown field
11:13 < AnotherOne> what if is is 1 when Y is 128+&
11:13 < AnotherOne> ?
11:13 < AnotherOne> it is 1*
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11:29 < AnotherOne> dx: nice text
11:31 < dx> ..
11:32 < AnotherOne> what?
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14:33 < AnotherOne> http://www.wiki.vg/Protocol#Entity_Effect_.280x29.29
14:34 < AnotherOne> oh
14:34 < AnotherOne> it's ok
14:43 < AnotherOne> anyone here?
14:43 < Thinkofdeath> ?
14:44 <+md_5> just ask, dont ask to ask
14:44 < AnotherOne> i have an idea
14:45 < AnotherOne> it would be better if headers for packet description would be links to corresponding packets
14:45 <+md_5> ?
14:45 <+pdelvo> AnotherOne> [11:14:33] what if is is 1 when Y is 128+& the Y field is unsigned so it goes up to 255
14:46 <+md_5> you know you can: www.wiki.vg/Protocol#0x29
14:46 <+md_5> right
14:46 < AnotherOne> nope
14:46 < AnotherOne> fokk my english
14:47 < AnotherOne> for that packet i mean "Entity Effect (0x29)" to be link also
14:47 < AnotherOne> so if i scroll and want to show you some packet i don't have to go up and seek packet in list
14:49 < AnotherOne> oh i see it now
14:50 < AnotherOne> but anyway that would be better
14:50 < AnotherOne> should i change that?
14:57 < AnotherOne> http://www.wiki.vg/Protocol#Block_Change_.280x35.29
14:57 < AnotherOne> wtf bute metadata?
14:57 < AnotherOne> byte*
15:00 < Yoshi2> it is not the same metadata as the mob metadata, it's just a byte which provides some additional data depending on the block, usually it is used for directions, can't think of any other uses right now
15:00 <+pdelvo> different wood types e.g.
15:00 <+pdelvo> wool color
15:01 < AnotherOne> thank you
15:03 < AnotherOne> somebody said here "81 packets"
15:03 < AnotherOne> there are 79 in wiki
15:03 < AnotherOne> metadata and object data?
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15:04 <+pdelvo> some have different implementations if they are sent in different directions
15:04 <+pdelvo> Y and Stance fields are swapt
15:06 < AnotherOne> yes
15:06 < AnotherOne> still i implement 0x0D as a single packet:)
15:07 < AnotherOne> but later...
15:07 < AnotherOne> why swapt?
15:07 < AnotherOne> any use?
15:08 < Yoshi2> it's a mystery
15:08 < AnotherOne> shrouded with darkness of mojang
15:09 < AnotherOne> i hope today protocol work will be ended
15:10 < AnotherOne> im tired of this piece of some bad substance
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15:55 < AnotherOne> i have a burning butthurt
15:56 < redu> ouch
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15:56 < AnotherOne> BSOD took my packets description
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17:19 < Demos> hello
17:21 < Demos> what are yall working on? also, anyone interested in haskell?
17:25 < AnotherOne> hi
17:25 < AnotherOne> haskell is heresy:)
17:26 < Demos> I rather like it, sometimes annoying since some libraries are HARD to build on windows but I quite like it
17:27 < Demos> I mean sure the executables are a little bigger than C but my apps seem to tend to be under like 15mb, unless I use like Hint an then I get a 50mb exe with all og GHC linked in
17:32 < AnotherOne> why haskell?
17:33 <+pdelvo> Use what you want to use. we even have someone in here who is developing a minecraft pe server in php
17:33 < shoghicp> hey
17:33 < Demos> I wanted to learn haskell and I had an idea for a minecraft related tool, thus making a tool in haskell
17:34 <+pdelvo> shoghicp is our php guy
17:34 < Demos> Essentially I was going to use Haskell, C, or GO, and decided on haskell
17:34 < dav1d> shoghicp: :D
17:34 < shoghicp> :D
17:34 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±7] http://git.io/YGHgpA
17:34 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 945f348 - Block light now spreads across chunks (/dance) Added basic time command
17:34 < dav1d> Demos: then do it!
17:34 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 8927523 - Skylight now spreads across chunks Has a issues where once a relight is triggered (E.g block breaking) the chunk every connected chunk update its skylight maps due to them not existing yet. Might have to embed them into the save file
17:34 < shoghicp> currently implementing FUrnaces ;)
17:35 < dav1d> FU rnaces
17:36 < shoghicp> I had to do a talk about MCPE protocol and PocketMine yesterday xD
17:36 <+ammar2> a talk?
17:36 < shoghicp> In a programming contest
17:37 < shoghicp> Other people were asked theoretical questions
17:37 < dav1d> wtf
17:37 < shoghicp> They asked directly about it, so i had to describe Raknet & Minecraft PE protocol
17:37 < shoghicp> xD
17:38 < AnotherOne> raknet
17:38 < AnotherOne> what is raknet?
17:38 < shoghicp> AnotherOne: http://www.jenkinssoftware.com/
17:38 < shoghicp> the library that MCPE uses for multiplayer
17:39 < AnotherOne> oh
17:40 < AnotherOne> so... im going to try my new protocol implementation
17:40 < AnotherOne> good luck to me
17:41 < shoghicp> (got a job offer!)
17:42 <+pdelvo> is there a company developing server software in php? :D
17:42 < dav1d> shoghicp: this, this is for php?
17:42 < shoghicp> yeah, PHP
17:42 < shoghicp> (compiled with HipHop)
17:42  * dav1d goes to cry in a corner
17:43 < shoghicp> they even have a Mobile phone carrier
17:43 <+clonejo> Demos: What about Erlang?
17:43  * pdelvo comforts dav1d 
17:44 < Demos> PHP has too many $s for my taste, also too afraid to get rid of broken library functions so you have random, really_random, really_really_random, random_we_promice_this_time and so on
17:44 < AnotherOne> LOL
17:44 < Demos> well Erlang is great but I want to be able to compile to a static binary
17:44 < Yoshi2> PHP is all about the dollars
17:44 < dx> i got a job offer with PHP too and i wish i could refuse it
17:45 < AnotherOne> function random() {return 4; // chosen randomly }
17:45 < dx> shoghicp: teach me how to avoid suffering while coding php
17:45 < shoghicp> dx: don't use "==", use "==="
17:45 < Morrolan> Have php.net open in the background. :)
17:46 < AnotherOne> what is "==="?
17:46 < AnotherOne> really equals?
17:46 < dx> yep
17:46 < Morrolan> "Comparison without type conversion"
17:46 < AnotherOne> oh
17:46 < shoghicp> == equals, === really equals xD
17:46 <+pdelvo> mysql_escape_string and mysql_real_escape_string next step is mysql_really_really_escape_string? :D
17:46 < Demos> I was under the impression php.net kinda sucked, and sometimes you want type conversion
17:47 <+clonejo> array() == "foo" is true in PHP
17:47 < Demos> lol yeah
17:47 < shoghicp> array() === "foo" is false ;)
17:47 < Morrolan> There's not many occasions where you want implicit type conversions. :)
17:47 < Demos> again like javascript, I think the runtime should emit warnings about that
17:47 < Demos> I have run into some
17:47 < Demos> for instance enums with a toString and toValue
17:48 < AnotherOne> dynamical typing is a heresy
17:48 < Demos> this is in javascript so an enum is just a object
17:48 < dx> Demos: php.net sucked? it's the goddamn manual, i doubt there is anything better
17:48 < Demos> I dont know much about PHP other than that I dont want to deal with it
17:48 < Demos> :D
17:48 < dx> lol
17:48 < AnotherOne> nobody likes php
17:48 < dx> except shoghicp
17:49 < AnotherOne> still everyone uses it
17:49 < Morrolan> AnotherOne: Dynamical typing != implicit type conversions. :)
17:49 < Demos> yall read the double-clawed hammer rant?
17:49 < Morrolan> 'course, Demos. Who hasn't. ;)
17:49 < dx> ^
17:49 < Morrolan> It's a relatively, hmm, popular article, these days.
17:49 <+pdelvo> Catchable fatal error: Argument 1 passed to foo() must be an instance of string, string given, called in ....
17:50 < Morrolan> Haha. :P
17:50 <+pdelvo>   function foo(string $s) {}  foo("hello world");
17:50 < shoghicp> "Parse error: syntax error, unexpected T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM in Command line code on line 1"
17:50 < AnotherOne> wat?
17:51 < dx> pdelvo: when did they add that "string"?
17:51 <+pdelvo> dont know
17:51 < dx> i don't remember seeing it before
17:51 <+pdelvo> the error occurs in php 5
17:51 < Morrolan> Oh, yea, type hints. Joy. :)
17:51 < Demos> seriously call it a "scope resolution operator" for christ sake
17:53 <+pdelvo> Argument order: array_filter($input, $callback) versus array_map($callback, $input), strpos($haystack, $needle) versus array_search($needle, $haystack)
17:53 < dx> >It actually does mean double-colon - in Hebrew
17:53  * dx facepalms
17:53 < dx> i thought shoghicp wrote gibberish in that error message
17:53 <+pdelvo> About half the array functions actually start with array_. The others do not.
17:53 <+ammar2> http://reddit.com/r/lolphp
17:54 < Morrolan> Oh god, look what you've started, Demos. :<
17:54 < shoghicp> dx: It is a real one ;)
17:54 < Demos> I know, but english is the lingua franca of IT and programming so USE IT
17:54 < shoghicp> hint: T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM => ::
17:54 < dx> shoghicp: yeah, i googled already
17:56 < AnotherOne> ZOG controls PHP
17:56 < AnotherOne> oh noes
17:56 < Demos> I am a big fan of things like Go that are designed to be easy to parse and understand fully
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17:58 < Demos> Because an inconsistency between namespace separator '::' and ternary operator's ':' could not be solved, namespace were finally removed. -- PHP wiki, I know php has namespaces now but seriously that is backwards, the ternary operator is just ... pointless
17:59 -!- SuinDraw [~NiaTeppel@WiseOS/Founder/NiaTeppelin] has joined #mcdevs
17:59 <+pdelvo> lets stop with this pointless discussion we had a million times now
18:00 < Morrolan> You say that after having spent the last ten minutes telling the channel about various flaws of PHP?
18:01 < Demos> PHP bashing is so easy/fun
18:01 <+pdelvo> jeah Im sorry about that, but I cant change that now
18:03 < AnotherOne> use ruby
18:03 < AnotherOne> i heard there is a little esoteric syntax
18:03 < Demos> I hear ruby is kinda wacky as well, but not bad persay, very slow though
18:04 < dx> pdelvo: a million times? i thought that was java
18:04 < AnotherOne> dx: lol:D
18:04 <+pdelvo> a million times java and a million times php 
18:04 <+pdelvo> or maybe 2 million times java
18:04 < dx> yeah 2 million times java sounds better
18:05 < Demos> java was well intencioned but after a while we all realized that pure OO is not a good thing
18:05 < AnotherOne> hey! hey guys! PHP is the best web PL because it is the most wide-spread!
18:06 < AnotherOne> http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSDsbQlH98BcIXG4ahO80CapCQRqpTpgQrLnIEmZMSoJHuuRfEM
18:07 < Demos> *backend web PL, FTFY
18:07 <+pdelvo> come on. stop it
18:08 < dx> let's talk about more interesting stuff, like pbunny
18:09 < Morrolan> Demos: 'Slow' really depends on the context here. :)
18:09 < Demos> yeah I know, and slow does not mean bad
18:09 <+pdelvo> Im really curious why he has not developed his server in assembler. C is too slow I think
18:09  * Morrolan snrks
18:09 < Morrolan> What happened to that guy, anyway?
18:10 < dx> there was... an accident
18:10 < dx> i'm not comfortable talking about the topic
18:10 < dx> ;_;
18:10 <+ammar2> fbi arrested him and because he forgot to audit his hardware they convicted him
18:11 <+ammar2> never forget
18:11 <+pdelvo> :D
18:11 < Morrolan> Oh, seems he should have read the code which is stored on the BIOS' chip, eh.
18:12 <+pdelvo> It was credulous to think that the gouvernment has not put malware in his bios
18:12 < dx> heh the other day i was reading some slides of a presentation about BIOS reverse engineering
18:13 < Demos> wait what the fuck are we talking about, RMS?
18:13 < dx> (to add coreboot support to specific hardware)
18:13 < dx> Demos: pbunny
18:13 <+pdelvo> we are talking about a guy who said he has read the whole linux source code
18:13 <+pdelvo> 20h a day over months
18:14 < dx> even the modules that nobody ever compiles?
18:14 <+pdelvo> I think so. it would be too dangerous to not check them
18:14 < dx> snd_pcsp = best module ever, that no distro includes
18:15 < Morrolan> He also thinks, the only reason people use a language other than C is that they aren't proficient enough in C. :)
18:16 < Demos> To be fair C is quite a nice language
18:16 < dx> Demos: sure, but pbunny's C is not nice
18:16 <+pdelvo> and nobody who uses java should help him
18:17 <+pdelvo> One of my favorites:
18:17 <+pdelvo> <pbunny> Stormx2: java coder shouldn't teach people how to code C .
18:17 < AnotherOne> well he is right
18:17 < dx> AnotherOne confirmed for pbunny clone
18:17 < AnotherOne> lol
18:18 < dx> :P
18:18 <+pdelvo> the problem was that md_5 was teaching him and he was right :D
18:18 < AnotherOne> usage of java slyle in c may lead to disaster
18:18 < Demos> well OOP methods CAN be good in C code or not, just like that CAN be good in java or not
18:18 < dx> it's not really about "java", it's about "i don't want to hear what you're telling me"
18:19 <+pdelvo> in the files he was doing his world stuff he was reding packets...
18:22 < Not-001> [PartyCraft] SirCmpwn pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/DBt9iw
18:22 < Not-001> [PartyCraft] aholmes c706255 - Fix typo. http://www.reddit.com/r/csharp/comments/1ez7e7/writing_c_code_from_within_minecraft_on_a_custom/ca5h03m
18:22 < Not-001> [PartyCraft] SirCmpwn 77b6dfc - Merge pull request #10 from aholmes/master Fix typo
18:29 < dx> ...why say "pull requests welcome" for that, lol
18:32 <+ammar2> to encourage other people to contribute
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18:40 < dx> it's a typo..
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18:51 < AnotherOne|2> 123
18:51 < AnotherOne|2> [19:43:34] Vortality: Message_SuperLongClassNameRulesWtfNigga
18:51 < AnotherOne|2> oh
18:52 < AnotherOne|2> dat kvirc
18:53 < AnotherOne|2> 321
18:53 < AnotherOne|2> how to change name?
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18:54 < dx> pro
18:56 < AnotherOne> sure
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19:34 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 3 commits to master [+0/-0/±4] http://git.io/JQ-71Q
19:34 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn a6468df - Fix #158
19:34 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 10d2208 - Merge branch 'master' of github.com:SirCmpwn/Craft.Net
19:34 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 05f5b3a - Drop inventory on player death
19:38 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/cng2-w
19:38 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 6e4ea7e - Fix death spamming when falling into the void
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19:40 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/vJNXbQ
19:40 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 330e914 - Slowed down death by void
19:45 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 3 commits to master [+0/-0/±5] http://git.io/L1UnBQ
19:45 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] aholmes 778c19a - Fix issue with players respawning under the map. This is done by adding the PlayerEntity.Height to Level.SpawnPoint. This change also changes storing the PlayerEntity.Height with the position when the user exits. Instead, I opted to add the height wherever needed. This has the effect of not dropping the user twice as high during respawn than during login. Issue #154
19:45 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] aholmes be3e34c - Correct whitespace
19:45 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 3303737 - Merge remote-tracking branch 'aholmes/master'
19:47 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/bX1oBQ
19:47 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn b30f227 - Fix formatting issue with pull request
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20:01 < Demos> hey, do you guys think bash trickery could be usefull when writing mod install scripts, I am trying to decide if I want to require windows users to install bash or to just say "only use simple commands in your scirpts that will work in both bash and powershell"
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20:21 < kryton> hi.. newb here... i was wondering if there was a python library (or even java) that understands the minecraft protocol. I want to write a server-admin tool to run a single-server
20:21 < kryton> (or better yet) is there a OSS tool out there already?
20:26 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/_ae2tg
20:26 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 8277e52 - Removed test code from flatland generator
20:26 < AnotherOne> did you look here? http://wiki.vg/Library_List
20:27 < Not-001> [PartyCraft] SirCmpwn pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±4] http://git.io/AvkOqQ
20:27 < Not-001> [PartyCraft] SirCmpwn 773c243 - Update Craft.Net submodule
20:27 < Not-001> [PartyCraft] SirCmpwn 2eb3049 - Merge branch 'master' of github.com:SirCmpwn/PartyCraft
20:29 <+SpaceManiac> kryton: take a look at https://github.com/bravoserver/bravo - it's a server but you might find some parts useful
20:31 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-0/±3] http://git.io/7XW-jg
20:31 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 5ddf97a - Added tab complete event, closes #151
20:34 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/RHRS0g
20:34 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 464e36d - Added TabCompleteEventArgs.Handled to avoid sending responses unless needed
20:35 < kryton> thanks SpaceManiac & AnotherOne .. i'll check them out
20:40 < kryton> this stuff is pretty cool.. is there a webapp that can start/stop servers edit properties etc as well?
20:41 < dx> uh
20:41 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/wCVUKg
20:41 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn a424a9f - Added TabCompleteEventArgs.Client
20:41 < dx> kryton: what do you want to do exactly? you don't need to use the minecraft protocol for that stuff
20:41 < kryton> I want to write a webapp that can stop my girls pinging me @work to restart the server/load new worlds
20:42 < kryton> as well as chat to them while they are online, and de-ban their friends
20:43 < kryton> thought i might need the minecraft protocol to do stop server cleanly as well (instead of kill -9'ing it)
20:43 < dx> then no, no minecraft protocol at all
20:44 < kryton> ok..sweet
20:45 < dx> you just need rcon and maybe a server wrapper script (that does something when the java process quits)
20:46 < kryton> ok.. is there a proxy that lets them choose worlds when they log in? (so we could host multiple worlds on a single port)
20:46 < dx> er..
20:46 < dx> you'll want to use bukkit for that kind of stuff
20:47 < dx> you can do it with a proxy, but i'm not sure if any project like that is still maintained
20:47 < kryton> ok.. thx
20:47 < dx> bukkit+multiverse
20:47 < kryton> i'll see if i can get a simple admin app first.. then focus on that
20:48 < dx> but yeah, rcon is the protocol you need
20:48 < kryton> thx again dx
20:51 <+ammar2> eww rcon, there's quite a bit of web panel plugins out there you can probably use
20:51 <+ammar2> for bukkit that is
20:52 < kryton> not using bukkit.. just plain minecraft_server.jar for now
20:52 < kryton> although they want to do plugins like horse-riding and stuff
20:53 < dx> ammar2: what's wrong with rcon? :(
20:53 < dx> kryton: wat
20:53 <+ammar2> dx: apart from plaintext password tranmission?
20:54 <+ammar2> s/tranmission/transmission/
20:54 < Demos> can you rcon via ssh?
20:54 < dx> ammar2: what's wrong with doing that from localhost?
20:54 < dx> Demos: ye
20:54 < kryton> Demos: you can set up a SSH-encrypted port connection via -L 
20:54 < kryton> Demos: on ANY TCP connection
20:55 <+ammar2> dx: not much but localhost only severly limits it, no
20:55 < dx> ammar2: so uhm, anything else apart from that?
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21:10 < Not-001> [PartyCraft] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±4] http://git.io/b0C8LQ
21:10 < Not-001> [PartyCraft] SirCmpwn 46c9689 - Implemented tab complete
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--- Day changed dim. mai 26 2013
00:00 < Not-001> [mc-erl] clonejo pushed 4 commits to master [+0/-0/±5] http://git.io/95jUkQ
00:00 < Not-001> [mc-erl] clonejo 5517258 - extended .gitignore
00:00 < Not-001> [mc-erl] clonejo c477740 - show module in console log
00:00 < Not-001> [mc-erl] clonejo 3b8bde4 - refactored mc_erl_app:os_run/0
00:00 < Not-001> [mc-erl] clonejo c271723 - Revisiting role of mc_erl_eid, will now supply anyone with eids.
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00:47 < Not-001> [mc-erl] clonejo pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±4] http://git.io/QIByjQ
00:47 < Not-001> [mc-erl] clonejo 42fbfcf - finished mc_erl_client_lib, working on mc_erl_client [NOT WORKING]
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00:55 < Not-001> [mc-erl] clonejo pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/hqWHCA
00:55 < Not-001> [mc-erl] clonejo 669c11b - hopefully fixed compilation issue
00:56 <+md_5> can we actually just fix the Minecraft protocol :| I mean if the mojangstas are so hell bent on json, why dont we wipe out NBT and rredo some of the packets
00:56 <+clonejo> md_5: We could define our own protocol to use between our custom servers and clients.
00:56 <+md_5> clonejo custom server tools far outnumber custom clients
00:56 <+md_5> there are *no* custom clients in use
00:57 <+clonejo> We could do a protocol critic page on the wiki
00:58 <+clonejo> with enhancement suggestions
00:58 -!- Sanjay [4a5839cb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.88.57.203] has joined #mcdevs
00:58 < Sanjay> Hey ther
00:58 < Sanjay> Anyone around?
00:58 <+md_5> Grum mentioned something about if we wanted something in MC to make an API and then provide sample impleentation with MCP, although that doesnt really work for packets since they would still have to do all the heavy lifting
00:59 < Sanjay> Hey
00:59 < Sanjay> Hows it going
00:59 <+md_5> also, dual stack udp+tcp would be an idea dont you think clonejo ? use udp for move packets that we dont give a toss if dont arrive
00:59 <+md_5> not bad
00:59 <+md_5> also shit like: Note: When this packet is sent from the server, the 'Y' and 'Stance' fields are swapped. 
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01:00 < Sanjay> I was wondering what packet I would need to send for a player to drop something from his creative inventory.
01:00 <+md_5> does that still happen?
01:00 <+md_5> hmm creative inventory...
01:00 <+md_5> Sanjay you want; Click Window (0x66)  I imagine
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01:01 < dav1d> md_5: well will udp really bring a benefit?
01:01 <+md_5> dav1d I think in some cases dualstack would
01:02 <+md_5> client to server and server to client  player/entity position updates
01:02 < Sanjay> Ok,that seems about right. It says window 0 is player inventory, would that also be for creative inventory?
01:02 <+ammar2> eww dual stack
01:02 <+md_5> maybe time updates too
01:02 <+ammar2> also keep in mind that the current encryption scheme wont work with udp
01:02 <+md_5> anything where we dont have to implement an ACK system
01:02 < dav1d> md_5: I don't think this would make the protocol simplier or even better
01:02 <+md_5> ammar2 we can just use the same keys in a block cipher
01:02 < dav1d> ammar2: who needs encryption for movement?
01:03 <+ammar2> dav1d: no one :D
01:03 < dav1d> right
01:03 < dav1d> just drop it all together
01:03 < dav1d> only sensible is probably chat
01:03 < dav1d> which needs tcp anyways
01:03 < dav1d> or some kind of tcp emulated tcp
01:04 <+md_5> even the metadata (which they moved around all the indexes in 1.6) should be json, not this bullshit made up format
01:04 <+ammar2> tcp emulated tcp
01:04 <+ammar2> wat
01:05 <+md_5> ammar2 he meant a tcp impl based on udp, which is a silly idea
01:05 <+ammar2> not silly, thatswhat everyone does
01:05 < dav1d> ammar2: udp emulated tcp
01:05 <+md_5> not quite
01:05 < dav1d> yeah it is
01:05 <+md_5> Spawn Experience Orb (0x1A) 
01:05 <+md_5> why is that its own packet
01:05 < dav1d> but having to connection for a minimal gain is also kinda stuipid (imo)
01:06 <+md_5> Update Sign (0x82)   <-- should be tile entity data
01:06 < dav1d> I mean what you gain is not really huge
01:06 <+md_5>  Item Data (0x83) <-- should be item stack data
01:06 <+md_5> dav1d if we consolidated all the position updates (0xA-D) over udp, sending all fields, the bandwidth would be the same as using the lowest denominator of those packets
01:06 <+md_5> and we nuke 3 packets in the process
01:07 <+md_5> My biggest bitch about MC is how they make a new packet instead of repurposing old ones
01:07 <+md_5> right now to make a client you need to implement 81 packets
01:07 <+md_5> that is a few hours of just writing decode methods
01:08 <+md_5> Tab-complete (0xCB)   could be a special json packet, now that we have tat
01:08 <+md_5>  Plugin Message (0xFA)   really needs an int header as opposed to short
01:08 <+md_5> Server List Ping (0xFE)   really needs to send the hostname as well as protocol version
01:09 < dav1d> md_5: so you would open a second connection after the handshake in udp?
01:09 <+md_5> 0x01:  Dimension 	byte 	0 	-1: nether, 0: overworld, 1: end                 should be bumped up to a short
01:09 <+md_5> dav1d I say after encryption, so {0xCD,0x00}
01:09 < dav1d> yeah
01:10 < dav1d> well this works, but would probably need a lot of refactoring in the minecraft code
01:10 <+md_5> the respawn and login packets should be merged
01:10 <+md_5> send a small login packet
01:10 <+md_5> then follow it by a respawn packet
01:10 <+md_5> atm they duplicate info
01:11 <+md_5> 0x0A-D should also be merged, I mean if we have json, who cares about the bandwidth of a few extra doubles. Using UDP with all the doubles is still better than tcp in terms of B/w
01:11 < Sanjay> Hey sorry to interupt... But I was looking at the Windows part of the 0x66 packet (http://www.wiki.vg/Inventory#Windows). I cant seem to find a creative inventory window in there.
01:11 < dav1d> there are a few flaws
01:11 <+md_5> Sanjay the creative window is client side as far as I know
01:11 < dav1d> Sanjay: that is probably a client thing, if the client is in creative he opens that instead of the normal
01:12 < Sanjay> Well the client has to send some sort of packet when the user adds an item from creaetive inventory into his regular inventory correct?
01:12 < Sanjay> Or even drops it
01:13 <+md_5> Sanjay not afaik, I remember in bukkit I patched a bug where the client could spawn water source blocks even when they werent in his inventory
01:13 <+md_5> dav1d all this entiti relative move should be scrapped and we can just use absolute values over udp
01:13 < Sanjay> Hmmm... So I would need to first add it to the inventory and then place it/ drop it?
01:14 <+md_5> I think you can just say drop(new ItemStack(whatToDrop, countToDrop))
01:14 <+md_5> or however your client works
01:14 < Sanjay> I dont have any "drop" method implemented yet...
01:14 < dav1d> md_5: there should be a lot done
01:15 < Sanjay> Isnt ItemStack a bukkit object?
01:15 <+md_5> Sanjay Im just making up an example
01:15 <+md_5> Increment Statistic (0xC8)   could be done via udp, it spams a bit and who cares if your stats are off by a few %
01:16 < Sanjay> So basically your saying I could just use the same method to drop an item that is not in my inventory (in creative inventory) that I use to drop a regular item in my inventory?
01:16 <+md_5> yyes
01:16 < Sanjay> So it doesn't even need to be in the inventory?
01:16 <+md_5> as far as I know, no
01:17 < Sanjay> So I would go about this using the 0x0E packet?
01:17 < Sanjay> (player digging)
01:18 <+md_5> I think you need 0x66, grabbing a proxy and inspecting a vanilla client doing it is a good idea
01:18 <+md_5> I dont know for sure
01:18 < Sanjay> It says one of the status codes are drop item
01:18 <+md_5> yeah, for survival, when using q
01:19 < Sanjay> I dont see a field for the "type" of block to drop in 0x0E. Does it drop whatever is selected?
01:20 <+md_5> again
01:20 <+md_5> for creative use 0x66
01:20 <+md_5> if you are unsure get a proxy and confirm
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01:22 < Sanjay> What would a proxy do? Show me the outgoing packets?
01:23 <+md_5> yes
01:24 <+clonejo> Sanjay: the window_click packet is also when clicking outside the inventory window
01:24 <+clonejo> eg. dropping an item
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01:25 < Sanjay> But what would I send for the "slot" value...
01:26 <+md_5> the Slot value is an itemstack data
01:26 < Sanjay> Would a program like this work for inspecting outgoing packets sent by the client? http://www.snapfiles.com/get/smartsniff.html
01:27 <+md_5> https://github.com/SirCmpwn/SMProxy
01:27 <+md_5> might not be 1.5.2 though
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01:32 < Sanjay> +clonejo The 0x66 has mode 4 button 0 for "Left click outside inventory holding nothing". But how would I do that holding something?
01:33 <+clonejo> the server has to track any action of the player in the inventory (eg. clicking slots)
01:34 <+clonejo> and predict the outcomes of all these actions
01:37 < Sanjay> So how would I go about say left clicking a redstone block and then left clicking outside of the inventory window with it
01:37 <+md_5> you are familar with the itemstack protocol format, right.
01:37 <+md_5> just send 0x66 with your desired itemstack as the slot
01:38 <+md_5> --
01:38 <+md_5> The structure consists of at least a short, which gives the item/block ID [1]. A value of -1 signifies that the slot is empty, and no further data follows.
01:38 <+md_5> If the block ID is not -1, three more fields follow. These fields are a byte (item count), a short (item damage), and another short (length of optional NBT data).
01:38 <+md_5> If the short (length of NBT data) is -1, there is no NBT data, and no further data follows. Otherwise, a byte array will follow.
01:38 <+md_5> The byte array contains gzipped (that is RFC 1952 rather than RFC 1950) NBT data. The format of this data is as follows: 
01:41 < Sanjay> So once I get to slot, I should writeShort with block ID, writeByte with the item count, and than writeShort with item damage and then writeShort with -1 for no NBT data?
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01:47 < Sanjay> All seperate right?
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02:18 < Sanjay> +md_5, I tried using 0x66 to drop the item, but it doesnt work. The code on this page runs every 30 seconds for keep alive packet. The first time, it does nothing, and the player just stays in the game, but the second time the loop runs, the player just leavs the game with no error client side or server side. It works fine without the 0x66 packet: http://paste.md-5.net/curagadawe.avrasm 
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03:06 < Sanjay> Hello? +md_5 are you here?
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03:51 <+md_5> Sanjay cant be of much more assistance
03:56 < Sanjay> ;(
04:04 < Sanjay> What do I need to do?
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08:10 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1983 6 files : Finished moving bulk of the GUI handlers from ConfigGUI.AddWorldPopup to fCraftGUI.RealisticMapGenGUI
08:20 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1984 2 files : Temporary fix for AddWorldPopup compile errors. Everything compiles, woo.
08:28 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1985 2 files : Cleaning up unused dependencies in AddWorldPopup
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08:53 < dx> 19:55 <+md_5> can we actually just fix the Minecraft protocol :| I mean if the mojangstas are so hell bent on json, why dont we wipe out NBT and rredo some of the packets
08:53 < dx> md_5: but i like NBT ;_;
08:54 < dx> (it's better than json)
08:57 <+md_5> dx not really, regardless, the protocol is too derp and needs to be fixed
08:57 <+md_5> badly
08:57 <+md_5> but mojang doesnt give a flying f*** about it and would rather spend time on other useless things
08:57 <+md_5> then call fixing the protocol useless
08:57 <+md_5> youtubers are more important than us
08:57 < dx> i'm pretty sure that choosing json is a way of saying "all of this sucks, let's do it differently"
08:58 < dx> a poor way to say it, but...
08:58 <+Matvei> Is it text-based JSON, or BSON/
08:58 < dx> text based
08:59 <+Matvei> That seems wasteful
08:59 < dx> never heard of BSON, is it the """standard""" way of writing json in a more compact way?
09:00 < dx> i mean there's other implementations (lol protocol buffers)
09:00 < dx> but my point was, if we're going to do that, there's NBT
09:01 <+Matvei> BSON is fairly common. It can represent any data that JSON can, just more compactly
09:01 <+Matvei> (well, there are a couple additions, like a byte array type)
09:02 < dx> byte array = just a string without utf-8 decoding?
09:03 <+Matvei> Effectively, yes. But BSON implementations actually treat it as a byte array
09:05 <+md_5> Matvei bson and nbt
09:05 <+md_5> are like.. the sae
09:05 <+md_5> same
09:05 <+md_5> just different formats
09:05 <+Matvei> Yeah pretty much. I was pretty happy with NBT, honestly.
09:05 <+md_5> but still, I dont actually think json has much if any more overhead than nbt
09:05 <+md_5> since every nbt tag is named
09:06 <+md_5> and so is every json tag
09:06 <+md_5> and nbt has a format byte, whereas json might have a quote or bracket
09:06 <+md_5> so in the end it will be the same size
09:08 <+Matvei> NBT fields declare their type though, so you know exactly how many bytes to read. JSON requires a bit of parsing to figure out field size
09:08 <+Matvei> Makes linear parsing slower and more wasteful
09:09 <+Matvei> Also numeric types take up more bytes (effectively using 4 out of 8 bytes per character), extra separators (brackets/quotes/commas/decimal points), etc
09:09 <+Matvei> All adds up
09:09 <+md_5> true
09:10 <+md_5> Matvei but remember, mojang doesnt give a toss about packet sizes
09:10 <+Matvei> *4 out of 8 bits per character, rather
09:10 <+md_5> -> json chat
09:10 <+md_5> why isnt chat nbt eh?
09:10 <+Matvei> I care about bytes, I get to pay for my community's bandwidth :P
09:10 < dx> "if you care about size compress it"
09:10 < dx> "if you care about cpu time thread it"
09:11  * dx still rages about that
09:11 <+md_5> dx soo lets have a json encode thread and a compression threa
09:11 <+md_5> d
09:11 <+md_5> gogogogo
09:11 < dx> that shit seems to work for HTTP servers, but those have completely different scalability properties
09:12 < dx> -.-"
09:12 <+md_5> seriously, my proxy sometimes has to do 100 messages a second from a couple thousand users
09:12 <+md_5> now it has to do 100 json decodes a second as well
09:13 < dx> heh yeah, your proxy is the best way to tell mojang that there's some people who actually want to scale and this is just making it harder
09:14 <+Zaneo> Matvei, how does femto compare to vanilla in terms of footprint?
09:14 < dx> what can a single minecraft server handle, usually? is it 200 players? they'd just think you can put an octacore on it and have 7 spare cores
09:15 <+md_5> dx right now I'm limited to about 2000 players without burning up the CPU. I'm slowly but surely aggressively optimizing it, but I feel 3000 is an absolute peak. The problem also is that the CPU usage at lower players is comparatively high, but then it peaks very wuickly
09:15 <+Matvei> Zaneo, memory footprint? Femto is a few megabytes of base use + map size, that's it.
09:15 <+md_5> (by low I mean 200-400 players)
09:15 <+Matvei> About 20 MB with the default map size, if I remember correctly
09:16 < dx> md_5: 2000 with bungee or with a single vanilla/bukkit/spigot?
09:16 <+md_5> because MC sends so many packets it runs a very quick fetch decode execute cycle
09:16 <+md_5> dx 2000 on a bungee
09:16 <+md_5> spigot caps out at 500
09:16 <+Zaneo> Heh good luck with that
09:16 < dx> oh ok
09:16 <+md_5> and to get 500 you need a 4.5ghz overclocked 3770k processor
09:16 < dx> lol..
09:16 <+Zaneo> More
09:16 <+Zaneo> You need ssds
09:17 <+md_5> thats the most I've ever seen on a spigot server with 20tps, 500 exactly
09:17 < dx> i'm pretty sure he's already assuming the whole world on ramdisk
09:17 <+md_5> yeah Zaneo I'm talking uber optimzed setup
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09:19 <+md_5> dx the thing that would help bungee scalability most is a packet ID header
09:19 <+md_5> because at the moment it needs to parse every packet.. I do this very efficiently, but sometimes its not enough
09:19 <+md_5> *packet length header
09:19 < dx> md_5: dude. i love your project
09:19 <+md_5> so do I
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09:20 < dx> md_5: i bet everyone in this channel would like to have that packet length header but you have the best reason to force them to add it
09:20 <+md_5> dx the most requested feature I get is virtual hosting in the server ping tab without srv records
09:20 <+md_5> I have virtual hosting
09:20 <+md_5> but it shows a global count in the ping tab
09:21 <+md_5> and I just have to reply: "Mojang says no, use SRV records"
09:22 <+md_5> its not even like its hard for mojang to add, its just they treat 3rd party developers like shit, and mapmakers and youtubers like god
09:22 < SinZ> ^
09:23 <+Zaneo> On a side note, who is still developing it, I don't really follow them anymore
09:23 < dx> "it"?
09:23 <+Zaneo> minecraft
09:23 < SinZ> Jeb, Grum and Dinnerbone
09:23 < dx> ...i was trying to say that without pinging them
09:23 < dx> oh well
09:23 <+md_5> oh
09:23 <+md_5> also a packet to be able to reset a clients entity ID
09:24 <+md_5> (the one given in 0x01)
09:24 < dx> reset?
09:24 <+md_5> I would kill babies for it
09:24 < dexter0> so what happened to EvilS3ph then :P
09:24 <+md_5> dx change it
09:24 <+md_5> dexter0 he never did anything, stuck up  arsehole. doesnt even develop bukkit, just changes the version number every release
09:24 < SinZ> dexter0: he spends his entire time on the bug tracker and mod api AFAIK
09:25 <+md_5> not even SinZ , just doing minor things and then acting like he is god and they are his babies: ie bug tracker
09:25 < dx> oh i forgot that guy was in mojang too. seriously. he's just PR for bukkit
09:25 <+md_5> (excuse me if I'm bitter about EvilSeph, I spent 18 months of my life working for the arsehole)
09:25 < dx> errr public relations not pull request
09:25 <+md_5> dx if by PR you mean destroyer of PR and lead of 'damage control' when the community revolts, sure
09:26 < dx> md_5: i didn't say anything about how he handled it
09:26 <+md_5> anyway, be back in 20 minutes
09:26 <+md_5> then more exam study
09:33 < dx> it really sucks that having vanilla clients with vanilla launchers is an important requirement for a lot of people
09:34 < dx> we can't just go and mod the protocol on both sides and tell people that they need to use a different client with no extra features other than having a less dumb protocol
09:35 < dexter0> except, where are the custom clients that are even near feature complete?
09:35 < dx> i wasn't talking about custom clients, i was talking about modded vanilla clients
09:36 < dx> same shitty java codebase, modified packets
09:36 < dx> just as a transition, of course, but we need to show them the benefits
09:42 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1986 13 files : Added DefaultMapGenGui/DefaultMapGenGuiProvider, as fallback for gens that do not provide a custom Gui. Basically, it's a PropertyGrid with some boilerplate code.
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09:43 < AnotherOne> hello people
09:44 < AnotherOne> AnotherOne's Awesome C++ Minecraft Protocol 0.1 is done!
09:44 < dexter0> is it public yet?
09:45 < AnotherOne> no:)
09:45 < dx> vaporware!
09:45 < eddyb> AnotherOne: what did you end up using?
09:46 < AnotherOne> in other words please:)
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09:46 < AnotherOne> my english is so english
09:46 < eddyb> engrish
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09:48 < SinZ> dx: the problem is, we are running out of benefits
09:48 < dx> SinZ: 'running out'? are they doing something to improve the situation?
09:48 <+md_5> uh
09:49 <+md_5> I would go out of my way, to spend my $$$$ time designing AND implementing a new MC protocol if I got an agreement with mojang that it would be implemented once a community consensus + review from their side was complete
09:49 <+AndrewPH> jesus please
09:49 <+md_5> I think at least half the issue is the fact that they wont spend their time on people like us
09:49 < eddyb> AnotherOne: what did you use for the code?
09:50 <+md_5> instead they spend their time on youtubers
09:50 <+md_5> because then they get credit from the youtubers
09:50 <+md_5> and then the youtuber fanbois turn into mojang fanbois
09:50 < dx> md_5: please skip the rant about the youtubers when you talk to them about this
09:50  * md_5 deletes message he had ready
09:50 < dx> :D
09:51 <+md_5> Ill stick with
09:51 <+md_5>  I would go out of my way, to spend my $$$$ time designing AND implementing a new MC protocol if I got an agreement with mojang that it would be implemented once a community consensus + review from their side was complete. I think at least half the issue is the fact that they wont spend their time on people like us.
09:51 < dx> but yeah, if there's some proper legal contract, you should be able to refactor the code directly, right?
09:52  * md_5 is open to legal contracts, but like that is gonna happen
09:52 < dx> i meant a contract that gives you access to the codebase temporarily under some conditions :P
09:52  * md_5 has seen some pretty dodgy shit in private minecraft servers that he cannot detail any further
09:52 < dx> o_o
09:53 <+md_5> http://www.wiki.vg/Wrapper_List   ... that page
09:53 < AnotherOne> eddyb: c++ and a small hand-made code generator
09:53  * md_5 think all people with voice should be given permission to rename and delete wiki pages
09:53 < dx> just with the name i'm sure it was a page that wasn't updated in years
09:53 < AnotherOne> reading from vector buffer and throwing exception if there are not enough bytes
09:54 < eddyb> AnotherOne: so the same crappy thing?
09:54 < eddyb> meh
09:54 < eddyb> I wanted to help you :P
09:54 <+md_5> better way is to make a wrapper buffer that throws an exception when it cant read the desired data type
09:54 < AnotherOne> why crappy?:)
09:54 <+md_5> readInt() {assert readadbleBytes >= 4, super.readInt()}
09:55 <+md_5> dx what is your minecraft iGN?
09:55 < dx> md_5: dequis
09:55 < AnotherOne> md_5: this is a good variant too
09:55 <+md_5> https://github.com/dequis
09:55 <+md_5> I is stalker
09:55 < dx> lol
09:56 < dx> yes i wrote the long rant in the gist and my name is right there in the github profile
09:56 <+md_5> ohg
09:56 <+md_5> right.. you wrote that rant
09:56 <+md_5> +1
09:56 < dx> :D
09:56 <+md_5> I am gonna write 1 proposal to mojang though, refactor 0x01 and 0x09
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09:57 < dx> the first message i wrote had a slightly positive opinion, BTW, since i've had a pending patch for craftirc to translate all the irc formatting codes and it's blocked because of § parsing bugs
09:58 < AnotherOne> http://www.wiki.vg/Protocol#Player_.280x0A.29
09:58 <+md_5> in fact, just delete 0x09 and merge it into 0x01 or vice versa
09:58 < AnotherOne> i got this trying to connect to bukkit server
09:58 <+md_5> yes? what about it?
09:58 < dx> did bukkit tell you that you're grounded?
09:59 < AnotherOne> is it ok for bukkit to send client to server message?
09:59 < Calinou> "community consensus"
09:59 < Calinou> >community
09:59 < Calinou> >reaches a consensus
09:59 < Calinou> --thexyz
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09:59 < SinZ> md_5: deleting 0x09 and mering to 0x01 and renaming the packet to Spawn would be nice
09:59 <+md_5> I think between the prominent members of this channel we can reach a rough 4/5'ths majority
10:00 <+md_5> SinZ yah, and being able to set the entityId in said packet. I would be soo happy
10:00 < SinZ> and trimming the packets down
10:00 < dx> Calinou: i'm pretty sure we all can agree in the most important and general stuff, at least
10:00 < SinZ> ie the not-used sections of packets
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10:01 < SinZ> md_5: only derp with merging, is having to send maxPlayers more often than just once
10:01 <+md_5> SinZ I was thinking that, too
10:01 <+md_5> like where could we put it
10:02 < SinZ> maybe just trim Packet 0x01 to be stuff only needed once
10:02 <+md_5> SinZ atm all that would be is maxPlayers
10:02 < SinZ> and at the end of handshake, send Login AND respawn
10:02 <+md_5> SinZ or we can just send it all the time and allow for resizing which would be cool
10:03 < SinZ> Not that the player list is used by any not-vannila instance
10:03 < SinZ> as everyone over-nerfs the packet sending
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10:06 < SinZ> md_5: and while we are trimming the protocol, 0xC8 can be destroyed
10:06 <+md_5> SinZ is it not used?
10:06 < SinZ> server has no reason to care about achievements, and client can spoof them anyway
10:07 < dx> hm, it's still a feature that exists though
10:07 <+AndrewPH> the 'achievements' feature should be nuked imo
10:07 < dx> you could just choose not to send it
10:07 <+md_5> client calculates its own acheivements too doesnt it?
10:07 < dx> yeah
10:08 <+md_5> mojang plz listen to us
10:08 < dx> but statistics and achievements are different features
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10:12 < dx> also, Ｇｒｕｍ said there was no way to predict the size of some packets
10:12 < dx> he meant the ones with metadata / slot data, right? am i mising anything else?
10:13 <+md_5> dx so?
10:13 <+md_5> you write to a buf
10:13 <+md_5> and then prepend to said buf
10:13 < dx> yeah... that's what i was thinking
10:13 < dx> there's nothing that can't be fixed without a wrapper like that
10:13 < Calinou> Grµm looks more awesome, dx :P
10:14 < dx> Calinou: i see a ? in a circle, use utf-8 please
10:14 < Calinou> no u
10:14 < dx> oh xchat, xchat defaults to hybrid latin1 utf-8, see here http://xchat.org/encoding/
10:15 < SinZ> dx: im on hexchat and it appeared fine
10:15 <+Zaneo> ^
10:15 < Calinou> changed all networks to UTF-8
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10:15 < dx> wat
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10:15 < Calinou> Grµm => does this work now?
10:16 < dx> SinZ: as i said, xchat/hexchat default to hybrid latin1 utf-8, you can receive latin1 characters (which are invalid utf-8) and also utf-8, but when you send it's always latin1
10:16 < dx> Calinou: yes
10:16 < Calinou> cool
10:16 <+Zaneo> Both showed up for me, and i'm on a fresh install of hexchat
10:16 < dx> Zaneo: read what i said..
10:17 <+Zaneo> Ah sorry missed that
10:17 < Grum> o.O
10:17 < dx> it's a terrible setting since *you* are the only one who doesn't know your characters are fucked up
10:17 < dx> oh hey it's grum
10:17 <+md_5> quick
10:17 <+md_5> kidnap him
10:17 < dx> k
10:17  * md_5 is an artist https://github.com/ElasticPortalSuite/BungeeCord/issues/390
10:18 < dx> md_5: beautiful
10:18 < AnotherOne> lol
10:18 < Calinou> should be on DA ASAP
10:18  * Calinou posts it to /r/minecraft
10:18 < Grum> md_5: yeah we could do packetsize crap, but why would we bother spending time on that?
10:18 < Grum> it wont gain us anythin
10:18 <+AndrewPH> looked fine to me, dx
10:18 <+md_5> um
10:19 <+md_5> dx should I make a youtube reference
10:19 < dx> Grum: md_5 wants to refactor minecraft's protocol code FOR FREE! just because he loves you all
10:19 <+md_5> well
10:19 <+md_5> why is credit from youtubers and map makers more important than credit from us?
10:19 < Grum> whut?
10:19 < Calinou> oh hai
10:19 < Grum> i never add anything 'just for one person'
10:19 < SinZ> you constantly add features because sethbling asked
10:19 < Calinou> our local PilzAdam
10:19 <+md_5> not you
10:19 < Grum> not ever done that
10:19 < SinZ> you as in Mojang
10:20 <+md_5> ^^
10:20 < Calinou> SinZ: he did not
10:20 < dx> Grum: dinnerbro does
10:20 <+md_5> Dinner tweets all this shit all the time, stars on youtube videos
10:20 < Calinou> binnerdone then
10:20 < Grum> i guess mostly because they are oneline additions with controlled impact?
10:21 <+md_5> one line?
10:21 < Grum> unlike that 'prefix packet with length change' :p
10:21 <+md_5> you mean coloured armor
10:21 < dx> Grum: don't you think that server admins who would like to have networks of interconnected servers with thousands of players are rather important?
10:21 <+md_5> custom mob spawners
10:21 <+md_5> attribute systems
10:21 <+md_5> are all one line>
10:21 < Grum> the spawners were done because they were broken
10:21 <+md_5> also, I implemented said packet length system in ~10 lines
10:22 < SinZ> using NBT to change the block in minecarts and the position of the block in minecarts?
10:22 < Grum> dx: not in the slightest
10:22 < Grum> and you cant even do it without offline mode
10:22 < Grum> even less reason to support it
10:22 < dx> ...
10:22 <+md_5> Grum http://screencloud.net/v/ljtw
10:22 <+md_5> 11 lines
10:22 <+md_5> for packet length header
10:23 < SinZ> so because it helps legit people, it wont be done because pirates dont benefit?
10:23 < Grum> and lets now talk about impact md_5
10:23 < Grum> is it backwards compatible? no
10:23  * SpaceManiac yawns
10:23 <+md_5> is anything backwards compatible?
10:23 < Grum> why break it if its not going to be an improvement?
10:23 <+md_5> protocol version wouldnt exist if everything was compatible
10:23 < Grum> protocol version would ALWAYS exist
10:23 <+md_5> is 1.6 compatible with 1.5?
10:24 < Grum> if you dont have it, you are clearly not smart :P
10:24 <+md_5> answer: no
10:24 <+AndrewPH> wouldn't be needed though
10:24 < dx> Grum: have you heard about "BungeeCord"? it's what i was talking about. people actually use it for huge servers. clients connect to it and authenticate normally.
10:24 < Grum> AndrewPH: obviously it is needed O.o
10:24 <+md_5> therefore said change could go in the 1.6 update
10:24 <+md_5> so your argument of it being backwards compatible is irellevant
10:24 < Grum> dx: and then get offloaded to offline servers? fun
10:24 <+AndrewPH> Grum: because obviously not everything is backwards compatible :)
10:25 < Grum> md_5: no, its ok if its backwards incompat but it should at least improve SOMETHING
10:25 <+Zaneo> What do you mean by backwards compatible, works perfectly fine? or doesn't crash?
10:25 < Grum> which it doesn't
10:25 <+Zaneo> Just to clarify...
10:25 <+md_5> it does improve something, just ask this entire channel. You can make an MC client / server without coding 81 packets in which the slightest typo will cause helll
10:25 < Grum> i dont see the issue
10:25 <+md_5> does coloured armor improve something in my opinion
10:25 <+md_5> no it doesnt
10:25 < Grum> i mean, you all do it now not?
10:26 < dx> Grum: current protocol version is 66. that means 66 changes that aren't backwards compatible since this started...
10:26 < Grum> dx: yeah and with the current state of the protocol we'll have another 100 more
10:26 <+md_5> therefore I vote coloured armor be removed         <--- see the issue with that.
10:26 < SinZ> its 61...
10:26 < dx> SinZ: 13w19a
10:26 <+SpaceManiac> so you agree the current state of the protocol is awful? :P
10:26 < Grum> yes obviously it is
10:26 < Grum> you cant even call it a protocol
10:27 < Grum> protocols are designed
10:27 < Grum> this isnt
10:27 <+md_5> just because the mojang employees are Minecraft god and get to decide what 10 million people play, shouldnt mean that a features usefulness is decided by 1 guy
10:27 <+AndrewPH> Isn't json going to be used for something over the network
10:27 <+md_5> hey, I feel like horses
10:27 < Grum> however the priority of things are decided by 3 people md_5 ;)
10:27 <+md_5> lets give 10,000,000 people horses because we can!
10:27 <+AndrewPH> if something should at least improve something, why would json be considered? wasteful!
10:27 <+md_5> Grum are horses high on that priority?
10:27 < Grum> md_5: ask jens, he considered that a yes
10:28 < SinZ> Grum: how goes the new authentication?
10:28 < Grum> personally i think adding any features to the game right now is ..... not idael
10:28 < Grum> SinZ: webteam hasn't started on it
10:28 <+md_5> wouldnt making a server that can hold 300 people without eating up 3ghz of cpu be a priority?
10:28 < Grum> md_5: nope
10:28 < dx> ..
10:28 < Grum> well, a low one at best
10:28 < SinZ> wouldn't making the networking more efficient be on the table
10:28 <+md_5> oh right, but making a client that map makers and famous people can dick around with is
10:29 < Grum> yes, but also a low prio
10:29 <+md_5> hey guise, look what dinner added just for us this week!
10:29 < AnotherOne> yeah!
10:29 <+md_5> oculus rift
10:29 <+AndrewPH> imo you guys should release a big update, and then spend some time redesigning the protocol (or as you put it, designing it for the first time in its lifetime)
10:29 <+md_5> that is a massive priority
10:29 < Grum> md_5: i agree with you, i think its pointless to do
10:29 < AnotherOne> now i can login and stay online
10:29 < Grum> AndrewPH: the problem is, to redesign the protocol we need to have other shit fixed
10:29 < dx> Grum: *why* is it low priority, exactly? is it because we're the ones who ask for it?
10:29 < Grum> we havent yet, slowly working towards it
10:29 < AnotherOne> vector buffer is much faster than stream
10:29 <+md_5> I can see why tahg quit
10:29 < Grum> but then there is yet more shit that has to be fixed before that
10:30 <+ammar2> .query md_5 well yeah, famous people dicking around = more vids = more publicity = more sales
10:30 <+ammar2> oops
10:30 <+ammar2> :3
10:30 < dx> lol
10:30 < Grum> md_5: except that he didnt
10:30 <+md_5> Grum irreconcilable differences isnt quitting?
10:30 < dx> he didn't? that's new to me
10:30 < Grum> i have nothing more to add on that
10:30 < Grum> anyhow, the problem is in the bloody yaks
10:30 <+md_5> "Creative differences and frequent changes in developmental focus lead to a situation that could not be reconciled between the company and myself. "
10:30 < Grum> there is a ton of yaks that have to get handled before we can even consider redoing the protocol
10:31 <+md_5> lead to a situation that could not be reconciled between the company and myself.
10:31 <+md_5> ould not be reconciled between the company and myself.
10:31 < Grum> md_5: the first word is indicative
10:31 <+md_5> could not be reconciled
10:31 < Calinou> <md_5> wouldnt making a server that can hold 300 people without eating up 3ghz of cpu be a priority?
10:31 < Calinou> CPUs don't work like that
10:31 < dx> Grum: wrapping every packet write to not use the protocol directly but use a buffer that counts the packet length to be able to prepend it is not redoing the protocol
10:31 < Calinou> and 300 player server is horrible
10:31 < Calinou> <md_5> oculus rift
10:31 < Calinou> lol
10:31 < Grum> dx: yes but breaks 100% without giving ANY benefit/extra features/anything
10:32 <+md_5> so, either tahg left because he hated mojang. or mojang made tahg leave because they hated him.
10:32 < dx> Grum: every version number change breaks protocol parsing
10:32 <+md_5> s/hate/disliked direction and opinions
10:32 < Calinou> also, making minecraft server less hungry is simple: switch to 10 TPS
10:32 < Calinou> the end
10:32 < Calinou> it'll do most of the stuff for you
10:32 < Grum> dx: and they typically fix a bug orso
10:32 < Grum> yet the protocol is so horridly 'designed' that the onyl way to do it is by doing a backwards incompatible change
10:32 <+md_5> Calinou what I said holds true, the server uses approx 3 billion cpu cycles/sec one way or another
10:32 < dx> Grum: the benefit is extremely more lightweight protocol parsing, such as being able to handle thousands of messages per second without caring about every single one
10:32 <+md_5> every change is backwards incompatible
10:32 < Calinou> efficient or inefficient ones? we don't know
10:32 <+SpaceManiac> I can definitely understand the "bigger fish to fry" mentality
10:33 < Calinou> an A4-5400 won't handle 300 players
10:33 < Grum> dx: but that is absolutely nothing that 99.99% of the 10million players care for
10:33 < Calinou> never judge CPUs by speed or cores
10:33 < Calinou> and even less by cache
10:33 <+md_5> Calinou I'm not being scientiffic here
10:33 < Grum> SpaceManiac: there is so much broken stuff we have to start somewhere, starting at the place that has ungodly amounts of dependencies is *not* a good spot :)
10:34 <+SpaceManiac> Heh
10:34 <+ammar2> Grum: I dunno man, reddit seemed pretty hyped by the inter connected server system. All done thanks to third party software which would benefit from protocol changes
10:34 < Grum> s/broken/suboptimal/
10:34 < dx> md_5: how many bungee servers are there?
10:34 < Grum> ammar2: and now you just display another reason that doing it wont add much; you already have it working without it
10:34 <+md_5> dx best measured in players not server
10:34 < dx> md_5: sure then, how many players?
10:34 < Grum> surely it would be easier, but god that is *not* a good reason to break everything
10:35 <+ammar2> dx: http://mcstats.org/plugin/BungeeCord
10:35 <+md_5> 45,000 peak, when the MC peak is 280,000
10:35 <+md_5> approx
10:35 < Calinou> 100+ players is full of disorder already
10:35 < Calinou> I can't enjoy servers with more than 40 players
10:35 <+md_5> dx so call it 15% of Minecraft SMP players
10:35 <+ammar2> Calinou: different people like different things
10:35 < dx> md_5: cool.
10:35 < dx> Calinou: this isn't 100+ players in a single chunk lol, this is interconnected servers
10:35 <+AndrewPH> Calinou: bungee is cording several servers together, a corded network won't have every player playing in the same space
10:36 < Calinou> interconnected servers is again, useless for that kind of gamer
10:36 <+md_5> yeah
10:36 < Calinou> -r
10:36 < Calinou> not to mention it is energy inefficient
10:36 <+md_5> Calinou dont judge based on your opinions
10:36 < Calinou> feel free to do it
10:36 <+md_5> clearly the system works > made it to front page of MCforums, curse weekly wrapup, top post on r/minecraft
10:36 < Grum> md_5: so you get a sharded world?
10:36 < Calinou> but mojang will never implement that :P
10:36 < Grum> i have no idea what bungeecord actually does
10:36 < dx> Calinou: it doesn't interest you, but just see the numbers they mentioned above, other people like it
10:37 < Calinou> md_5: since when /r/minecraft is indicative of popularity, or front page of MCF
10:37 <+ammar2> since forever
10:37 <+AndrewPH> Calinou: Multiworld is pretty popular
10:37 < Calinou> "griefing is an illusion" was on front page for 3 weeks :trollface:
10:37 < Grum> dx: no that is a lie, most people dont even KNOW they are using it, let alone you claim they 'like' it
10:37 <+AndrewPH> bungeecord is the same idea, just with servers instead of local worlds
10:37 <+md_5> Calinou ........ 15% of players is also indicitative
10:37 <+md_5> yeah
10:37 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1987 4 files : DefaultMapGenGui now auto-sizes itself properly.
10:37 <+md_5> bungee is the next level of multiworld
10:37 <+AndrewPH> Grum: think of Multiverse
10:37 < dx> Grum: how can someone not know they are playing in a server with 2000 online players?
10:37 <+AndrewPH> now replace local worlds with networked servers
10:37 < Grum> each dimension on its own server?
10:37 <+md_5> Grum basically yeah, but more game modes
10:37 < Calinou> dx: spam in chat? :trollface:
10:38 <+md_5> eg if you run a minigames network
10:38 <+AndrewPH> each world of course can have multiple worlds
10:38 <+md_5> hunger games one server
10:38 <+md_5> minez on the other server
10:38 <+AndrewPH> but it's very much the same idea
10:38 <+md_5> creative on another server
10:38 -!- shoghicp_ [~shoghicp@77.225.6.14] has joined #mcdevs
10:38 <+md_5> its a 'lobby'
10:38 < Grum> md_5: so there is absolutely no benefit beyond doing a: 'jump into a portal' or 'execute command' to connect to another server?
10:38 <+md_5> Grum there is, it ties the servers together
10:38 < Grum> is chat synced up from *all* servers into 1 general pool?
10:38 <+md_5> there are bungee plugins
10:38 < Calinou> jump-into-a-portal to go to a server would be useful
10:38 <+AndrewPH> Grum: it can be
10:38 < Calinou> one server per world, why not
10:39 <+md_5> that can control chat, communication between other plugins on other servers
10:39 <+md_5> tab lists, global commands
10:39 <+Zaneo> That's actually what my server has done recently
10:39 <+md_5> anyway lets get back on topic
10:39 <+Zaneo> Each world is a different server with different plugins, all sharing a global chat
10:39 <+md_5> where were we...
10:40 < dx> md_5: well, Grum not being aware of the existence of bungee is an important part of the topic
10:40 < Grum> so, what would be a compelling reason to do a change to the protocol if you already have it working? O.o
10:40 < Grum> dx: not at all, it changes nothing
10:40 < SinZ> the json patch dinnerbone is about to do will slow it all down
10:40 <+md_5> yeah
10:40 < Calinou> source
10:40 < SinZ> but the packet headers can speed it back up
10:40 < Grum> SinZ: no? O.o
10:40 < Calinou> also, what will that json patch be useful for?
10:40 <+ammar2> the packet header change can reduce the actual protocol interfacing library significantly
10:40 <+md_5> Grum uh yes? now i have to decode in excess of 100 json packets a second
10:41 <+AndrewPH> why JSON? I mean, at least it's not XML, but JSON?
10:41 <+md_5> and what ammar2 said, at the moment if I want to make a custom MC client, I have to build an 81 packet library
10:41 < Grum> yeah so ?
10:41 <+md_5> see now we just get back to this stalemate
10:41 <+AndrewPH> Grum: Wastes space, wastes processing power, wastes time.
10:41 < Grum> i mean, if you want to do anything with mc you will end up having to hardcode a ungodly amount of things
10:41 <+md_5> 3rd party devs: make it easy for as
10:41 <+AndrewPH> Grum: so don't make that list even longer, try to improve it.
10:41 < AnotherOne> i think mojang does not give a f*** about custom client makers
10:41 <+md_5> mojang: f*** you we only add shiny stuff that makes users love us. 
10:42 <+AndrewPH> because the worse you make it, the more crap you guys have to do later on
10:42 < Grum> the json change is needed
10:42 <+md_5> AnotherOne ^^ thats what above means
10:42 <+md_5> Grum read the comments on the gist
10:42 <+AndrewPH> Grum: "needed"
10:42 < Grum> or rather, we need something to communicate a chat-structure to the other side
10:42 <+md_5> especially dequis's
10:42 <+ammar2> the change may be needed but json isn't needed :P
10:42 < Grum> it doesnt have to be json
10:42 <+md_5> https://gist.github.com/Dinnerbone/5631634
10:42 < SinZ> Grum: then do NBT, not JSON
10:42 < Grum> there is no 'sane' alternative though
10:42 < Grum> NBT is FUCKED UP
10:42 <+AndrewPH> Grum: there we go
10:42 <+md_5> well
10:42 < Grum> seriously NBT is *BAD*
10:42 <+md_5> notch would have you believe nbt is a good idea for chat
10:42 < dx> json is worse
10:42 -!- shoghicp [~shoghicp@77.225.6.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
10:42 <+md_5> I mean nbt is what... a json/bson replacement
10:42 -!- shoghicp_ is now known as shoghicp
10:43 -!- Zaneo [~Zaneo@70.52.147.134] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
10:43 < Grum> you have never seen the NBT code ... its horrifying
10:43 < Grum> untested >.>
10:43 <+md_5> Grum yes we have, it was open sourced
10:43 < Grum> the one time i did test it, i found 5 bugs in 10 minutes :(
10:43 <+md_5> in the anvil converter
10:43 <+md_5> it had the mojang nbt classes
10:43 < Calinou> <Grum> NBT is FUCKED UP
10:43 < Calinou> +1
10:43 < Grum> yeah then you should know it is broken
10:43 < Calinou> who uses NBT other than minecraft? ._.
10:44 <+md_5> Calinou no one
10:44 <+md_5> minecraft invented nbt
10:44 < dx> the format itself is not bad, though
10:44 < Grum> it is
10:44 <+md_5> http://bsonspec.org/#/specification
10:44 < Grum> well, its not specifically horrible, the implementation is however
10:44 <+md_5> nbt is basically a shitty bson
10:45 <+md_5> at the core nbt is based around the same design principles as bson
10:45 < Grum> i've looked at bson before, looks like a sane alternative
10:45 < Grum> but meh, not really of much importance right now
10:46 < dx> uhm
10:46 <+AndrewPH> Grum: question: why does this happen http://i.imm.io/17lzZ.png
10:46 < Grum> no idea
10:46 < dx> you guys hate the § based chat packets, and hate NBT, so introduce json as dependency, but don't want to introduce bson?
10:46 < Grum> we dont introduce a json dependency at all
10:46 <+md_5> dx reason: they already had a json lib for realms
10:46 < Grum> we already have json as a dependency
10:46 <+md_5> > for realms
10:47 < Grum> we had it before that
10:47 < dx> oh, is it just realms?
10:47 < dx> Grum: where?
10:47 < Grum> we've had it for a long long LOOONG time
10:47 < Grum> argo has been bundle with our sources forevar
10:47 <+md_5> argo can barely be classed as a json
10:47 < Grum> (util 1.6 ;D)
10:47 < Grum> argo = json
10:47 <+md_5> its a horrible library
10:47 < Grum> yes
10:47 < Grum> we'll be using gson
10:47 <+AndrewPH> haha, argo, clever. because jason and the argonauts.
10:47 < Grum> we are using both right now even
10:47 <+AndrewPH> ha.
10:48 < dx> ha
10:48 <+AndrewPH> I feel silly but that made me giggle.
10:48 <+md_5> AndrewPH hehe
10:48  * md_5 quickly checks what they used argo for
10:48 <+AndrewPH> I should probably get some sleep
10:49 <+md_5> uh
10:49 < dx> Grum: so you had bundled argo without using it, now you decide to introduce a new json dependency because argo sucks, but don't want to introduce a bson dependency?
10:49 <+md_5> argo is only used for realms as far as I can tell
10:49 <+md_5> dx and with the new launcher / recently they have added:a
10:49 <+md_5> apache commons
10:49 <+md_5> guava
10:49 <+md_5> asm
10:49 <+md_5> scala
10:49 <+md_5> wat.... why is asm and scala there
10:49 <+ammar2> asm? scala? wut
10:49 < dx> ..scala? lol?
10:49 <+md_5> something
10:50 <+md_5> what
10:50 <+md_5> forge is polluting my lib folder
10:50 < dx> lol derp
10:50 <+md_5> actual lib folder is:
10:50 <+md_5> argo
10:50 <+md_5> guava
10:50 <+md_5> jorbis (paulscode)
10:50 <+md_5> apache commons
10:50 <+md_5> jinput
10:50 <+md_5> joptsimple
10:51 <+md_5> bouncycastle
10:51 <+md_5> lwjgl
10:51 <+md_5> ----
10:51 < SinZ> launcher is gson and apache commons
10:51 <+md_5> jopt simple was probably added in a blink
10:51 < Grum> oh well; afk -> groceries :P
10:51 <+md_5> dx they dont have a real reason not to add bson
10:52 < dx> when sircmpwn complained about dependencies, dinnerbro said "Ok. Dependencies are bad? We already had json handling"
10:52 <+md_5> the fact is there are 2 groups of people crying for the attention of mojang
10:52 < dx> so dependencies aren't a problem
10:52 <+md_5> and we are always the group that gets ignored because our ideas are stupid
10:52 <+md_5> yet horses hoppers droppers coloured armor mob spawners comparators are not stupid
10:52 <+SpaceManiac> have fun getting food
10:53 < dx> we're just not a priority
10:53 <+ammar2> md_5: well yeah, you need updates to sell the game
10:53 <+md_5> ammar2 you could do all our updates in the time it takes to make oculus rift work
10:53 < SinZ> you could do all our updates before 1.6 is released
10:54 <+md_5> SinZ you could do them before the next snapshot (excluding the udp idea we threw around)
10:54 < SinZ> I didn't like the udp idea
10:54 < SinZ> WAY too much work for everyone
10:54 <+ammar2> yeah, dual stack is iffy
10:55 < dx> i'd love to have udp, but considering the amount of 'care' we receive, forget it
10:55 < SinZ> all our protocol improvements are required basically to make udp work right anyway
10:56 < dx> if adding a packet size header is hard, udp is impossible
10:56 <+md_5> the fact is there are commited people who want to "so don't make that list even longer, try to improve it." but it wont happen
10:56 -!- Cay [~OlofLarss@s83-177-171-150.cust.tele2.se] has joined #mcdevs
10:57 < dx> should i post a summary of this conversation to the gist thread, btw?
10:57 <+md_5> dx I loved your last comment, so yes, make it snazzy
10:58 <+ammar2> dx: if by gist thread you mean you guys complaining and dinnerbro saying nothing, sure :D
10:58 < dx> let's hope github doesn't decide to clear my text field again
10:58 <+md_5> dx write in wordpad or something and copy over
10:58 < dx> md_5: yeah i do that already
10:58 < dx> ammar2: he replied to a sircmpwn comment, at least
10:59 < AnotherOne> lol, dx
10:59 < AnotherOne> i told you
10:59 <+ammar2> his comment wasn't nearly detailed enough to provoke a proper response
11:00 < dx> AnotherOne: you also said i was butthurt and nobody cared, go away
11:01 < AnotherOne> i meant nobody at mojang:)
11:03 < dx> ...well now we know that grum doesn't care, but that doesn't mean we're going to give up
11:03 <+ammar2> we are
11:03 <+ammar2> we'll have to live with it just like we've been all these years
11:03 < dx> at the very least i want something that isn't json for the chat packets
11:04 <+md_5> <dx> ...well now we know that grum doesn't care, but that doesn't mean we're going to give up
11:04 <+md_5> +1 thats why this channel exists
11:10 -!- Yoshi2 [~chatzilla@xdsl-87-78-41-206.netcologne.de] has joined #mcdevs
11:11 < AnotherOne> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtxL6jDiaUQ this + code meditation + tea = nice day
11:29 < AnotherOne> do you remember episode from matrix when Neo was shown "Woman in red" in code?
11:30 < AnotherOne> feeling the same while reading packet dumps
11:31 < Flemmard> it's more: http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/36998474.jpg
11:33 -!- SuinDraw [~NiaTeppel@WiseOS/Founder/NiaTeppelin] has joined #mcdevs
11:33 < AnotherOne> true
11:35 < AnotherOne> what fo you guys think abut 0x10x?
11:35 < AnotherOne> 10c*
11:38 -!- Calinou [~Calinou@unaffiliated/calinou] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:38 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
11:48 <+SpaceManiac> seems neat from what I heard about it ages ago
11:51 < AnotherOne> i like its idea
11:51 < AnotherOne> Notch is genius of ideas
11:51  * eddyb runs away
11:52 < AnotherOne> not of implementation though:(
11:53 < Yoshi2> I heard that he put 0x10c on ice
11:54 < SinZ> from writers block or something like that
11:59 < dx> i just discovered :match and :highlight in vim
11:59 < dx> free custom syntax highlighting
11:59 < AnotherOne> masochist
12:00 < dx> why
12:00 < AnotherOne> because vim
12:00 < dx> sometimes you have to read stuff that isn't in a defined format
12:00 < dx> oh derp
12:00 < AnotherOne> how to exit it?:)
12:00 < Flemmard> :q!
12:00 < AnotherOne> damnit
12:00 < dx> let's not talk about this
12:01 < AnotherOne> i still remember my first launch of vim
12:01 < Flemmard> never try to exit vim as you want to exit emacs .. locks your term (if you dont know what it really does) XD
12:01 < AnotherOne> it ended with reboot
12:02 < dx> vim is an editor for people who want to be efficient, not for people who want to click buttons and use wizard interfaces
12:02 < AnotherOne> notepad++
12:03 < Flemmard> emacs is great (if you use it properly)
12:03 < Flemmard> as a lot of term editors
12:03 < Flemmard> keyboard shortcuts are a lot more efficient than messing with a mouse and a crappy UI :>
12:03 < dx> yeah i'm sure emacs is good too, but i just chose a different path
12:03 < Flemmard> yeah
12:03 < Flemmard> we 'had' to learn it at school
12:03 < Flemmard> so ..
12:03 < Flemmard> used to it :)
12:04 < AnotherOne> lol
12:04 < AnotherOne> h4rdc0r3 1337 sk001
12:04 < Flemmard> ?
12:04 < dx> derp
12:05 < Flemmard> no, school that teaches you 'good' uses of things
12:05 < AnotherOne> ur lucky then
12:07 < Flemmard> but i must admit that a good IDE is just awesome compared to a sole editor .. but there isnt much GOOD ide's :P
12:07 < AnotherOne> visual studio?
12:07 < Flemmard> yeah .. must admit that's like the better ide .. but eh
12:07 < AnotherOne> but its built-in web browser sux
12:08 < Flemmard> dunno, if i use VS it's for C++ so no need for web browser lol
12:09 < AnotherOne> sometimes it is useful to open two tabs and switch betweeen them
12:09 < AnotherOne> one for code, other for hints
12:09 < dx> i never bothered with IDEs but i mostly code python so there's not much else IDEs can offer that i don't have vim plugins for already
12:09 < Flemmard> yeah sure
12:09 < AnotherOne> geany?
12:09 < AnotherOne> i love it
12:11 < dx> meh
12:12 < dx> from a quick look at the feature list i can already do everything
12:19 -!- XAMPP-8 [~XAMPP8@199.254.116.104] has joined #mcdevs
12:19 < Grum> < dx> [13:03:08] ...well now we know that grum doesn't care, but that doesn't mean we're going to give up <-- what? :/ ... gosh get that head out of the ground
12:20 < Not-001> [wiki] Edit by Shoghicp to Pocket Edition Program List -> http://tinyurl.com/p7njsqx
12:21 < dx> Grum: you replied to everything we said as "low priority"
12:22 < Grum> which it is?
12:22 < dx> exactly.
12:22 < Grum> i also said i agreed with them being issues?
12:23 < Grum> not sure how that translates to: 'doesnt carae'
12:23 < dx> issues that you can't care about right now
12:23 < Grum> -a; i guess for you the fact that it doesnt get 'fixed' (because its not broken right now) indicates not caring?
12:23 < SinZ> low priority generally means never going to get done
12:24 < eddyb> no, it generally means "low priority"
12:24 < dx> 'not broken'? i guess you mean "not completely dysfunctional to the point of not allowing to start a basic server", but we think it's broken in a different way
12:25 < dx> actually you did agree that it's broken in a different way, in a low-priority way
12:25 < Grum> the protocol is not designed, that is what i call broken
12:25 -!- Calinou [~Calinou@unaffiliated/calinou] has joined #mcdevs
12:25 < Grum> but to fix that (and thus the little side-issue of not having easy-chunkable data) there is a whole ton of work to be done
12:26 -!- umby24|offline [~umby24@cpe-66-69-92-104.satx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
12:26 < Grum> also its kinda of a non-issue; as it only involves playing a server *or* a client, and that is going to be the least of your probles
12:27 < Grum> you can only make 'transparant' proxies (ones that just hand over data) without having to rip into the server or client
12:27 < dx> http://screencloud.net/v/ljtw this improves the situation for every single person in this channel, breaks as much backwards compatibility as any other packet change, actually helps to improve backwards compatibility in the future, and reduces the processing required by filtering proxies such as bungee
12:27 -!- umby24|offline [~umby24@cpe-66-69-92-104.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #mcdevs
12:30 < Grum> actually this breaks backwards compatibility for every single packet
12:30 < dx> yes
12:30 < Grum> also there are no gains at all from our pov
12:31 < dx> but there are gains in making spawner minecarts and other mapmaker features that sethbling likes
12:31 < Grum> actually, apparently there are, one 'gain' would be able to do something you couldn't do before
12:32 < dx> also note that adding a single field to a single packet also breaks every other packet
12:32 < dx> hm?
12:32 < dx> with this change you could actually hope to have basic interoperability between minor protocol changes
12:34 < Grum> and what would use that?
12:35 < dx> release 1.6.0, notice a bugfix requires changing a single packet, release 1.6.1 and let 1.6.0 clients connect to new servers ignoring a single packet
12:36 < Grum> maybe we dont want to let clients do that? O.o
12:36 < Grum> (which is the reason for protocol-version-changes)
12:37 < dx> i'm pretty sure it's more often about incompatible packet definitions, since, as i said, without this length header, any change breaks the interpretation of the stream from the point a changed packet is received
12:38 < Grum> not really
12:39 < Grum> we even up the protocol if we'd send new types of entities over them
12:39 < Grum> in theory fully compatible, however if you were to receive such a packet you'd crash
12:40 < dx> okay... you don't care about this header for vanilla server <-> vanilla client communication. do you care about us? do you care about bungee, which seems to cover 15% of the active SMP users?
12:41 < dx> is there ANY reason not to do this?
12:41 < dx> the last time i asked last year or so i got as reply that adding a few bytes per packet would be too expensive
12:42 < dx> it's obvious this doesn't matter since >JSON
12:42 < Grum> nah we actually discussed the json impact
12:42 < Grum> we had another solution before
12:42 < Grum> but it was horrible to code
12:42 < Grum> json was a quick fix
12:42 < Grum> and the impact not too severe
12:42 < dx> oh? could you give some details on this discussion and the previous solution?
12:43 < Grum> the issue we were solving was that the server shouldn't need to have all the locales of the client
12:43 <+md_5> if the issue is priority - why not higher more developers?
12:43 < eddyb> *hire
12:43 < Grum> because with resourcepacks we give the ability to add custom languages
12:43 <+md_5> *hire
12:44 <+md_5> then you can have people working on different things, they can rebase periodically with master, and eventually merge with master.
12:44 < eddyb> custom item names?
12:44 < Grum> those people ideally work from stockholm
12:45 <+md_5> you really think there are no java game developers in sweden?
12:45 < Grum> anyhow; the problem is that the server sends localized strings out to the client
12:45 < Grum> which obviously is stupid
12:45 < Grum> but how do you do it properly?
12:45 < Grum> we ended up needing a nested structure of localizations
12:45 < Grum> we realized that the whole chatformatting was also done rather .... stupidly horrific
12:45 < dx> sprintf(field 1 of the packet, ...more fields...) :D
12:45 < eddyb> silly dx
12:45 < dx> wait that's printf
12:46 <+md_5> no... I'm with dx
12:46 < Grum> md_5: i've told carl often enough we need more
12:46 < Grum> and with how dx is doing it there is no trivial way of doing nested structures
12:46 < Grum> obviously we could device a way to send a Map<String, String|Map<String,....>> to the other side
12:47 <+md_5> why do you need nested translations o.O give me an example
12:47 < Grum> but json was a 30 minute implementation that was 1) clean, 2 not horrific
12:47 < dx> i know sprintf-like templates are limited, but do we really need nested structures enough to justify json?
12:47 < Grum> md_5: giving an item to a player?
12:47 <+md_5> so.. you are worried about 30min implementation, but then spend god knows how long on stuff like oculus rift support ?
12:47 < Grum> item, player and the whole sentence are different localizable items
12:48 < Grum> md_5: we spend 0 time on it?
12:48 <+md_5> so then fence them off
12:48 < dx> (remember that json is trendy too!)
12:48 < Grum> 'hence them off' ?
12:48 < Grum> *f
12:48 < Grum> we've played maybe 30 minutes with oculus rift in tf2 O.o
12:48 <+md_5> send an array of String's, each with their own translate data
12:49 < Grum> doesnt nest trivially
12:49 < dx> what's the template used to give an item to a player?
12:49 < Grum> you can make some serializable nestable structure that is smaller than json, obviously
12:49 < Grum> dx: no idea, but problable: "Gave %s to %s"
12:50 < Grum> the first thing i said when nathan said json was 'what about the size'
12:50 < dx> and the first %s needs to be 'translated' twice?
12:50 < Grum> then we decided to just use it as a first implementation, see how bad it would get
12:50 < Grum> (it wasnt too bad)
12:50 < Grum> dx: no? the whole thing is a translation
12:51 < Grum> and the itemname / playername are also translatable items
12:51 < ShaRose> Grum curious, would there be that big a size decrease if you used NBT over json for the chat messages?
12:51 < Grum> nbt is horrible
12:51 < Grum> it has an uttersly shit interface
12:51 < dx> grum already said he won't use NBT because of the implementation
12:51 < Grum> we discarded it right from the bat for that reason
12:51 < ShaRose> fair enough
12:51 < Grum> *of the bat
12:51 < SinZ> Grum: question, why does the server need to know if the client wants to see capes or not?
12:52 < dx> emphasis in implementation and API
12:52 < Grum> SinZ: no idea
12:52 < Grum> dx: both are crap
12:52 < dx> Grum: yes
12:52 < Grum> NBT is highly unfriendly yo use
12:52 < ShaRose> whenever I used nbt I just saw it as a packed KV
12:52 <+md_5> 11 line translation:
12:52 <+md_5> http://paste.md-5.net/dovukopoda.java
12:52 < SinZ> then why does the server get told about the clients setting of ShowCapes
12:52 < Grum> not enough md_5
12:52 < ShaRose> SinZ because the client can turn off his cape for everyone in the server
12:53 <+md_5> I fail to see a use case that doesnt cover Grum, can you provide one?
12:53 < Grum> SinZ: we dont have a 'show capes' setting afaik? O.o
12:53 < Grum> md_5: add more attributes to the text?
12:53 <+md_5> attributes as in color codes?
12:53 < Grum> like color, style, name it
12:53 < dx> fixing § isn't hard
12:53 <+md_5> just use the existing section sign system
12:53 < SinZ> http://wiki.vg/Protocol#Client_Settings_.280xCC.29
12:53 < Grum> links to other things
12:53 < dav1d> I like my NBT implementation, I would even say it's api is cool
12:53 < dav1d> cool like: 8)
12:53 < dx> lol
12:54 <+md_5> you know what
12:54 < Grum> md_5: the section system is horrible
12:54 <+md_5> If I were mojang, screw json
12:54 <+md_5> lets use ObjectOutputStream
12:54 <+md_5> amiright
12:54 < Grum> because of the $r doing a 'fullon clear'
12:54 < SinZ> 0xCC has quite a few settings that server doesn't need to know
12:54 < Grum> so if you want to send a red string, and someone inserts a colored name ... it fucks up
12:54 <+md_5> thats just a matter of fixing the parser
12:54 < dx> object.. output stream? that sounds scary
12:54 < ShaRose> md_5 totally
12:55 < ShaRose> oh oh does java have an xml output stream
12:55 < ShaRose> use that
12:55 <+md_5> you could write a 20 line method to tokenize it back into a format the same as what your json goes to
12:55 < Grum> md_5: errrrm yeah to doing it right with a nested structure
12:55 < eddyb> ShaRose: XML is worse than JSON
12:55 < SinZ> ^
12:55 < ShaRose> the joke
12:55 <+md_5> (for non java programmers)
12:55 < Grum> md_5: and spend 3-4 hours writing unittests for it?
12:55 < dx> Grum: you could just make the § stack
12:55 -!- Yoshi2 [~chatzilla@xdsl-87-78-41-206.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
12:55 < dav1d> I think someone was kidding...
12:55 < ShaRose> went right over your heads didn't it
12:55 < Grum> nah lets not, json is rather proven :P
12:55 < Grum> dx: again not a trivial change
12:55 <+md_5> ObjectOutputstream is a 0 documented, java specific object serialization format
12:55 < Grum> (you havent seen the fucked up font code o.O)
12:55 < ShaRose> object output stream is also bloated output afaik
12:55 <+md_5> as far as I know there is no non java implementation to read produced objects
12:55 < Grum> md_5: also non-standard
12:56 < Grum> far more non-standard than json
12:56 < Grum> so what is really the issue here?
12:56 < eddyb> Grum: if this wasn't Java, it would be trivial to come up with a format similar to JSON but more specialized
12:56 < dx> Grum: can we donate a stacked § parsing library?
12:56 <+md_5> it was a joke, demonstrating that (I) perceive its usefuleness / application to the task to be on the same level as json
12:56  * SinZ looks at the code required to reproduce java-like sha1 hashs
12:56 < Grum> packet too big? we'll run it to zlib.inflate if you care too much
12:56 < ShaRose> eddyb you can do it in java just fine
12:56 <+md_5> eddyb java has no bearing on this
12:56 < dav1d> I only wonder what my client should display when a player joins
12:56 < Grum> dx: nope, we're getting rid of it
12:56 < eddyb> Grum: but you wouldn't be gaining too much out of it
12:57 < eddyb> md_5: java makes it bloated, see his comments above
12:57 < dav1d> Yo sorry dawg I have no translation for it! Using: Dinnerbone
12:57 <+md_5> <Grum> packet too big? we'll run it to zlib.inflate if you care too much          <-- even worse, then we have to add compress/decompress cycles.
12:57 < dav1d> ^ sorry for the highlight db
12:57 < Grum> md_5: then what is the problem?
12:57 <+md_5> eddyb uh no, just the specific serialization I was talking about
12:57 < dx> Grum: you're getting rid of it because it has bugs, and you don't want to fix bugs, and you also don't want other developers to help you fix it bugs. got it
12:57 < dx> *its bugs
12:57 <+md_5> https://gist.github.com/Dinnerbone/5631634
12:57 -!- Yoshi2 [~chatzilla@xdsl-87-78-128-46.netcologne.de] has joined #mcdevs
12:57 < Grum> dx: no we're getting rid of it because its a horrible way of doing things
12:57 <+md_5> I think all our issues are covered there
12:57 < ShaRose> pretty sure Grum said that earlier
12:57 < ShaRose> a few times
12:58 <+md_5> has someone actually benchmarked this json format, I want to see how long it takes to do 250 average sized messages a second
12:58 < dx> Grum: you might not like it, but there's nearly zero processing involved in taking a formatted string from a bukkit plugin config and sending it with a few vars replaced
12:58 < SinZ> heh, someone converted dinnerbros system to WoW UI escape sequences
12:58 < Grum> also seriously, on what server are the amount of outgoing chat-messages THAT high that this is actually ever showing up in ANY profiling?
12:58 < SinZ> https://gist.github.com/NickG365/5647684
12:59 < ShaRose> Grum I always wondered that too
12:59 < dx> Grum: md_5 wrote bungee...
12:59 <+md_5> Grum 2000 player servers spring to mind
12:59 < Grum> we actually considered using the blizzard formatting
12:59 <+md_5> 2000 players produce a lot of chat
12:59 < dav1d> md_5: why do you have to decode every chat message in bungee?
12:59 < eddyb> Grum: hmm, is there any chance of you using a lighter, yet still JSON-based format? or it doesn't itch you to have "translate" in it :P?
12:59 <+md_5> dav1d in case a user sends a command that bungee needs to decode
12:59 < dx> dav1d: i'm guessing inter-server commands
12:59 < Grum> the packets from the client will not be 'encoded' in json o.O
12:59 <+md_5> dav1d and for the API
12:59 < dav1d> oh commands
12:59 < dav1d> right
12:59 < Grum> its just plain text the user can send
12:59 < Grum> nothing more
13:00 < dav1d> omg
13:00 < Grum> anyhow; we actually had the wow-style option stuff as idea first
13:00 < Grum> the problem is, you cannot nest it
13:00 < dav1d> Grum: so two different formats for the same thing?
13:00 <+md_5> doesnt matter, I still have to parse it for the API hooks
13:00 < dav1d> one server->client (json) and client->server (plain?)
13:00 < Grum> not without writing a fully fledged parser for it .... i dont want to waste that time
13:00 <+md_5> (server to client chat)
13:00 < dx> Grum: we can
13:00 <+md_5> if time is such an issue, get people to help. 
13:01 < Grum> dav1d: no? this is 100% purely for server->client messages
13:01 < dav1d> Grum: https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/brala/gfx/text.d#L90 this parses a § message
13:01 <+md_5> this channel largely consists of unpaid professionals with a strong interest in Minecraft reverse engineering....
13:01 < eddyb> Grum: could you add optional formatted client->server message? which can be disabled/filtered :D
13:01 < Grum> dx: sure you can, feel free to, but why would we use it? :/
13:01 < dav1d> that is 30 lines of code
13:01 < Grum> eddyb: nope
13:01 <+md_5> dav1d work more on brala, so much potential
13:01 < dx> Grum: because json fucks everyone
13:01 < Grum> why?
13:01 <+md_5> gone a bit stale recently
13:01 < dav1d> yeah :(
13:02 < Grum> nope that code is broken dav1d
13:02 < Grum> wouldn't pass any unittest
13:02 < dav1d> Grum: for what input?
13:02 < eddyb> dav1d: you're kidding me. guess how many lines of code my implementation had?
13:02 < eddyb> dav1d: one
13:02 < Grum> dav1d: invalid input
13:02  * md_5 thinks back to when notch wanted to open source minecraft
13:02 < dav1d> Grum: well I tested it with a few strangly formatted chat lines it worked
13:03 < dx> md_5: his plans of open sourcing when sales went down (lol), or the plan to make a mod api with pseudo open source?
13:03 < Grum> dav1d: try it with the section symbol as the last char on the line
13:03 < Grum> try it with a 
13:03 < Grum> 'l' following it
13:03 < Grum> both instantly break it
13:03 < Grum> the section stuff is just enough for 'single depth complexity'
13:03 <+md_5> Grum again, they can be fixed with minimal effort
13:03 < Grum> we need more than that sadl
13:03 < dx> Grum: also, "why?", what do you think our rants in the gist are for?
13:04 < Grum> dx: for no reason?
13:04 < dx> Grum: got it
13:04 < dav1d> I'll note that down
13:04 < Grum> we're fixing a problem with our solution
13:04 < dav1d> thanks :P
13:04 < Grum> we're not just doing it 'because its funny to use json'
13:04 < Grum> sure we can use another serialization than json
13:04 < ShaRose> to be honest, I also think complaining about json is trivial
13:04 < Grum> but we'll be using json SO MUCH MORE in the future
13:04 < Grum> you better get used to it
13:05 < ShaRose> if you guys want something better, write a binary packed format that's powerful enough for mojang with a nice api and implementation, and give it to them :P
13:05 <+md_5> ShaRose already exists
13:05 <+md_5> bson
13:05  * ShaRose googles
13:05 <+md_5> its basically just NBT but with an actual spec and widly used
13:05 <+md_5> MongoDB uses it
13:05 < eddyb> dav1d: x = x.replace(/\xa7([0-9a-f])([^\xa7]*)/g, function(a, c, t) {return t?'<b style=color:#'+wc.chatColors[c]+'>'+t+'</b>':'';});
13:05 < dav1d> what me upsets is more that the client needs the translation files
13:05 < ShaRose> oooo, sounds neat
13:06 < dav1d> eddyb: yeah I've seen that one :P
13:06 < eddyb> dav1d: where?
13:06 < ShaRose> but them protocol buffers might also work for it in some cases, so
13:06 < dav1d> no idea, but when I implemented the parser I've seen it somewhere
13:06 < SinZ> eddyb: with this json system, client needs translation files
13:06 < Dinnerbone> It is not the servers responsability to know how to translate things for the client. The client can have hundreds of languages all kept up to date on an hourly basis if it wants; the server cannot do this.
13:06 < eddyb> SinZ: and?
13:06 < dx> oh hey it's dinnerbro
13:07 < Dinnerbone> Perhaps one day the server can suggest translations for things that won't exist (mods), but it cannot ever translate things straight out for the client. That's just stupid and inefficient.
13:07 < SinZ> eddyb: the language files can't be distributed afaik
13:07 < Grum> they will be soon o.O
13:07 < eddyb> SinZ: why are you saying this?
13:07 < Grum> you can just dump them in a resourcepack
13:07 < dav1d> Dinnerbone: yeah that's right, but I can't simply use your translation file (your as in mojangs)
13:07 < Grum> and they'll be loaded
13:07 < eddyb> SinZ: what did I do/say wrong? I don't get it :/
13:07 < Grum> dav1d: you can? we'll be shipping the client with enUS?
13:08 < Grum> and the server too
13:08 < Grum> because it has chatlog and a gui
13:08 < dav1d> Grum: but under which license?
13:08 < dx> Grum: you'll change the licensing terms of the translations?
13:08 <+md_5> Grum licensing...
13:08 < dav1d> ^ haha
13:08 < Grum> dav1d: whatever the fuck.txt
13:08 < dx> er... WTFPL?
13:08 < dav1d> Grum: so public domain?
13:08 <+md_5> <Grum> and the server too                           <--- I thought the point of this whole commit was that the server didnt need translations
13:08 < Grum> i mean seriously?
13:08 < Grum> is THAT the issue?
13:08 < eddyb> Grum: use this http://blog.izs.me/post/48281002063/free-as-in-hugs-licence
13:08 < Dinnerbone> And if you guys are really so concerned with efficiency or performance, tell me this: Which is more slow, sending "use multiplayer.player.joined with 'XXX'" to everybody, or looping through every player and turning this into a longer translation for their own language?
13:08 < Grum> md_5: not need *ALL* translations
13:08 <+md_5> Grum need a lawyer to sign off on that
13:08 < Grum> the server's log is a client 
13:08 < Grum> so that needs enUS (or at least one)
13:09 < Grum> md_5: leave it nicely in the grey area
13:09 < dav1d> Grum: honestly, yes. I don't like to steal stuff
13:09 <+md_5> eddyb use CDL: https://github.com/supertunaman/cdl/blob/master/COPYING
13:09 < dx> licensing is the issue for custom clients, yes
13:09 < dx> json being too complex to parse compared to plaintext is the issue for proxies
13:09 < SinZ> couldn't the custom clients just download from assets server?
13:10 <+md_5> Dinnerbone dunno, lets benchmark that with the memory and cpu overhead of gson decodes
13:10 < Dinnerbone> md_5, encodes* this is all serverside.
13:10 < dav1d> SinZ: that's basically the same as distributing it, isn't it?
13:10 <+md_5> s/de/en
13:10 < Grum> not sure how it is stealing
13:10 < dav1d> SinZ: a workaround would be loading it from the .minecraft folder (as I do for the terrain.png (1.4))
13:10 < Grum> enUS is rather publicly available on crowdin
13:10 < Dinnerbone> dx, if you're parsing chat messages on a proxy (why?), would a parsable format not be infinitely better?
13:10 < dav1d> Grum: wrong term
13:10 < SinZ> dav1d: downloading it on the end-users location from their servers isn't redist afaik
13:11 < Grum> yup
13:11 < Grum> you are perfectly happy to just fetch enUS stuff from our servers
13:11 < ShaRose> alternative: mojang hosts all the language packs on the website. on load, much like how the client grabs sound resources, the server grabs en_US or whatever the local language is from the site and loads it.
13:11 < SinZ> ShaRose: they DO
13:11 < Dinnerbone> It does this.
13:11 < Grum> it IS on Minecraft.Resources afaik
13:11 < dx> Dinnerbone: some proxies intercept proxy-level commands
13:11 < ShaRose> til
13:11 < dav1d> this is good!
13:11 < Grum> dx: there is no command from the client that is in json
13:11 < ShaRose> wait so why the hell do we care
13:11 < Dinnerbone> dx, from client or from server?
13:11 < Dinnerbone> Client never sends json
13:12 <+md_5> Dinnerbone both
13:12 < Grum> why would a server SEND a command in json?
13:12 < ShaRose> mojang is here, they said they don't give a shit
13:12 <+md_5> not command, chat in general
13:12 < ShaRose> how is this an issue
13:12 < Grum> i mean, if it knows it is a command .... :p
13:12 < Grum> md_5: why would you ever intercept outgoing chat from a server and then parse that as a command? O.o
13:12 < Dinnerbone> From the server: you're going to trust that all messages will be in a certain format, one language, so you can parse it hopefully with no problems? Vs having something you can parse trivially with absolutely no room for error?
13:12 < Grum> oh and isn't featureful-enough for what we want to do?
13:12 < Dinnerbone> You guys have bigger problems to worry about here
13:13 < SinZ> http://s3.amazonaws.com/Minecraft.Resources/lang/en_GB.lang
13:13 < Grum> enUS
13:13 <+md_5> say my proxy is connected to a 300 player server. 1 user sends a chat message. That message now has to be decoded 300 times.......
13:13 <+md_5> next I'm gonna have to store messages in a cace
13:13 <+md_5> cache
13:13 < Grum> no?
13:13 < Grum> because that proxy only gets it once?
13:13 <+md_5> Grum no... because the server sends it to each player
13:13 <+md_5> and each player is on the proxy
13:13 < Grum> yes, and those all have their own cpu? O.o
13:14 <+md_5> lolwat
13:14 < Dinnerbone> Why is your proxy parsing server->client text?
13:14 < ShaRose> why do you need to decode it from server to client for your proxy
13:14 < dav1d> ^
13:14 <+md_5> Dinnerbone api hooks, chat filtering for channels
13:14 < Grum> why would you do that based on chat?
13:14 < Grum> use the blank-data-packet 250 for it
13:14 < Dinnerbone> You shouldn't be doing this on chat, but it just so happens that this would incredibly incredibly simple to do with json and not hacky!
13:15 < Grum> yeah, maybe you can add the channel to the root of the json structure
13:15 < dx> simple but not efficient
13:15 < Grum> zomg insta-simple-filtering
13:15 < Grum> no, if you want to do it efficient
13:15 < Grum> tell the server to not send you those packets in the first place
13:15 < Dinnerbone> Efficient is not: server having to loop through every player and have to translate text for them and then send them a personalized packet
13:15 < Grum> if you filter on the client, you are going to do the filtering inefficiently on the client
13:15 <+md_5> regardless, to fulfil my api spec of the server to client message event, I have to parse every packet and fire an event
13:15 < Grum> then your api spec is broken?
13:16 < Grum> this is like peopel claiming ontick-hooks are good
13:16 < Grum> if you need that, you are doing something wrong
13:16 <+md_5> how is a server to client message event broken.....
13:16 < Grum> you can also just decode it lazily
13:16 <+md_5> say I want a bungee sided swear filter
13:16 <+md_5> actually nevermind that
13:16 < dx> get 100 messages per second, decode lazily. fun.
13:16 < Grum> what server do you get 100 messages per second? O.o
13:16 <+md_5> dx server to client is more than 100 a second...
13:17 <+md_5> lets do some back of envelope maths
13:17 < Grum> i mean even on irc you dont get that :p
13:17 < Grum> you have different problems
13:17 < ShaRose> Grum well apparently he's decoding a message for server to client for every client
13:17 <+md_5> um
13:17 < ShaRose> :P
13:17 < Grum> i'm in >50 channels and do not get 100messages/second O.o
13:17 <+md_5> this ircd is definately sending more than 100 lines a second
13:17 < ShaRose> so 100 per second is easy if you have a few hundred players
13:17 <+md_5> Grum but the IRCD does send more than that
13:17 < ShaRose> Grum I'm in like 90 and I don't hit that
13:17 < ShaRose> except for like a netsplit
13:17 < dav1d> Grum: but the server sends out more than that and he parses everything the server sends
13:17 <+md_5> ShaRose but the IRCD is sending more than that
13:17 <+md_5> so
13:17 < dx> think of irc network, not irc servers or irc channels
13:17 < Grum> md_5: so now you are complaining about json encoding cost?
13:17 <+md_5> 300 users
13:17 < ShaRose> yeah, because it has like 60k users
13:18 <+md_5> Grum we always were? check the gist
13:18 < dx> Grum: we were complaining about json decoding cost from the beginning
13:18 <+md_5> 3. Far more expensive to decode/encode
13:18 < Grum> i still dont see how you will get 100 unique messages/second though :p
13:18 <+md_5> they arent unique
13:18 <+md_5> some are the same
13:18 < ShaRose> then cache the result
13:18 < Grum> most are the same :p
13:18 <+md_5> but you honestly expect me to now cache it
13:18 < dx> they have to be parsed anyway
13:18 < Grum> parsing is a droplet in the ocean
13:19 < Grum> (as it only happens on the client)
13:19 < dx> he has to parse the ocean
13:19 <+md_5> 1 message a second = 300 messages sent by the server
13:19 < ShaRose> just do a checksum or if you want to hash the message, you can't say that's not light enough?
13:19 <+md_5> messagesIAmWorriedAbout = messagesASecond * playerCount
13:19 < Grum> md_5: yeah so you just pre-calculate the payload before you send? O.o
13:19 < Dinnerbone> I'm still curious why you do this on a proxy and not the server.
13:19 < Grum> as it'll be identical to all players anyhow
13:19 < SinZ> Dinnerbone: proxy is proxying >1 servers at once
13:19 <+md_5> Dinnerbone to provide event hooks. I dont actually manipulate the messages myself, but plugins might
13:20 < ShaRose> just do a kv store with a short key lifetime
13:20 <+md_5> ShaRose thats what I will end up doing
13:20 < ShaRose> why didn't you do this 'beforehand' is my question
13:20 < Grum> i'm sorry, because you chose an inefficient approach we cannot implement a sane system?
13:21 < Grum> logic failure right there
13:21 < ShaRose> as I see it right now
13:21 < ShaRose> implementing the cache feature will probably lower your resource usage even on top of json
13:21 < ShaRose> :P
13:22 <+md_5> ShaRose uh no
13:22 <+md_5> not at all
13:22 <+md_5> it would increase it because the cache would never be read from...
13:22 <+md_5> just written to
13:22 <+md_5> therefore redundant
13:22 < ShaRose> say what now
13:22 < Grum> you do realize you can just lazily decode and cache the messages right?
13:22 < Grum> if you want to keep this inefficient way of doing things :
13:22 <+md_5> there is no point having a cache if I dont need to to decode
13:22 < ShaRose> I don't think that word means what you think it means
13:23 < ShaRose> the idea is map the checksum of the message with the manipulated result
13:23  * md_5 head desk
13:23 < ShaRose> with a timeout of say half a second
13:23 < SinZ> I think race conditions will break that
13:24 < ShaRose> check it, decode it, check again and insert result with locking
13:24 <+md_5> ShaRose yes, that will be more efficient when json is used. You said it would be more efficient even when json isnt used
13:24 <+md_5> which makes no sense
13:25 <+md_5> anyway, as the saying goes
13:25 <+md_5> fuck it I'm out
13:25 <+md_5> <CafeBabe> [BungeeCord] md-5 pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/F_QgyQ
13:25 <+md_5> <CafeBabe> BungeeCord/master 8e34e03 md_5: Remove chat event firing when we get a message from server to client, as Mojang has decided to completely break this in the next major Minecraft release.
13:25 < dx> welp.
13:25 < ShaRose> what I said was cache + json would use less than no cache + section
13:26 <+md_5> ShaRose which is a false statement
13:26 < ShaRose> so you are saying that parsing section is faster than a table lookup
13:26 <+md_5> I dont parse the section
13:26 <+md_5> so yes
13:26 <+md_5> not parsing anything is def faster than a table lookup
13:27 <+md_5> <awkward silence>
13:27 < Grum> right, so we'll not be *not* doing json because you have some weird proxy :P
13:28 <+md_5> this is not about my proxy
13:28 <+md_5> its about use cases
13:28 <+md_5> and potential impacts
13:28 <+md_5> I think a lot of the discussion in the gist still stands tue
13:28 <+md_5> true
13:28 < dx> bandwidth usage is still a big issue for a lot of server admins
13:28 < Grum> the impact is absolutely next to nothing for any normal usecases
13:28 < Grum> yeah and chunks are about 1000x bigger than a chatmessage
13:28 < Grum> and we're sending far too many of those
13:29 < dx> as i said, i've heard of server admins that filtered the traffic to remove mob head movements
13:29 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1988 3 files : Initial import of FemtoCraft's map generator (VanillaMapGenerator.cs) and supporting functions (PerlinNoise.cs)
13:29 < Grum> so just NOT sending one of those can have us send 1000 messages
13:29 <+md_5> hurry up meme generator
13:29 < dx> sigh
13:30 < Grum> anyone running a mc server already has to cope with stupidly high bandwidth
13:30 < Grum> also something we cannot fix trivially (or maybe even ever)
13:30 <+md_5> its lovely to know you have so much pride in the quality of your product
13:31 < Grum> its not my product O.o
13:31 < Grum> if it was it wouldnt be this dubious =)
13:31 < dav1d> yay for new git! https://github.com/git/git/blob/v1.8.3-rc0/Documentation/RelNotes/1.8.3.txt#L135-L137
13:31 <+md_5> page is super slow, but here you go ShaRose , dx http://memegenerator.net/instance/38188275
13:31 < dx> Grum: you say that adding a packet length header is too complex, you don't seem to want to use bson for some reason, you do state that you dislike NBT because the implementation is terrible and you don't want to fix it, but you have no problem suggesting optimizing chunk sending to justify sending chat packets that are ten times bigger
13:31 < Grum> its not complex at all, it just gives no gain at all
13:31 < Grum> we can use bson but do you see a proper java implementation? i dont (also json wil ldo fine for now)
13:32 < dx> every time you say "no gain at all" i read it as "i don't care about #mcdevs"
13:32 < Grum> i rather just stop using nbt in general, its horrific
13:32 <+md_5> it gives gain to US, which is clearly not as valuable as the gain other things give to sethbling
13:33 < Grum> and the chatmessages arent 'significant' in any way size-wise to the rest of the things in the protocol; and thus that is no reason to not do the json change
13:33 < Grum> md_5: it gives nothing extra to you, just less work
13:33 < dx> Grum: you said you were planning to use json in many other places too, though
13:34 < Grum> yup
13:34 < Grum> all the places actually
13:35 < eddyb> guys, I think I've improved DB's format. it's still JSON, but for his examples, I get around 2/3 the size
13:36 < dx> Grum: also https://github.com/mongodb/mongo-java-driver/tree/master/src/main/org/bson
13:36 -!- Calinou [~Calinou@unaffiliated/calinou] has quit [Quit: Excess Flood]
13:36 < dx> apache license 2.0, i believe that's acceptable right?
13:36 < eddyb> wait, hmm, this damn nesting screwed with me again
13:36  * Grum looks for a clean and well tested mvn artifact
13:38 < Grum> i should add that gson is just that
13:39 < eddyb> gaaah I wanted to be smart with array recursivity and it bit me back
13:40 < Grum> good, and that is the reason we didnt just implement it
13:40 < Grum> i mean, we're not completely retarded >.>
13:40 < dx> 'not completely' is a good way to put it :3
13:40 < eddyb> this should be easier to parse, once I get the converter working for the demo
13:40 < dx> (sorry)
13:41 < Grum> dx: the arguments are just not good
13:42 < dx> 'it would make the work of #mcdevs much easier' is not a good argument
13:42 < dx> got it.
13:42 < Grum> nope its not
13:42 < Grum> sorry :(
13:43 < Grum> we'll get around to fixing the protocol and one of the things will be adding lenght for each packet
13:43 < dx> 'it would give sethbling enough nbt variables to make videos for a few extra weeks' is a good argument
13:44 <+md_5> Can see why tahg had creative differences
13:45 <+md_5> "Well get around then do it" why not do it now.....
13:45 < eddyb> Grum: https://gist.github.com/eddyb/5652486
13:45 < Grum> because as i've explained more than i care for, it breaks everything for *no* reason
13:45 < AnotherOne> did anything made here go to official minecraft code?
13:45 < Grum> you will just free up a couple of cpu cycles because of the change
13:45 < Grum> which is *NOT* a good reason to do it
13:46 <+md_5> "chat.type.chat
13:46 <+md_5> Its chat.type.text
13:46 < AnotherOne> wat
13:46 <+md_5> Dinners gist is wrong
13:46 < Grum> AnotherOne: yes
13:46 < AnotherOne> what was it?
13:46 < Grum> its just an example md_5, examples cannot really 'be wrong' :P
13:46 <+md_5> A few things do
13:47 <+md_5> When the mojangstas are in a good mood
13:47 < dx> *cough* the whole idea can be *cough*
13:47 < eddyb> Grum: 442 for mine, 601 for DB's, when stringified with no extra spaces. it should be easier to use, I would think
13:47 < Grum> o.O
13:47 < dav1d> AnotherOne: Gru*m works at mojang btw
13:47 < Grum> ohnoes, some extra "'s :(
13:48 < Grum> whateverwill we do :(
13:48 < AnotherOne> dav1d: i know:)
13:48 < dav1d> kk
13:48 < Grum> on the ~1.5mb of mapdata we send to people, noway that is significant
13:48 -!- r04r|away is now known as r04r
13:49 < dx> doing trivial optimizations to chat packets doesn't matter, refactoring chunk sending is totally trivial
13:49 < dx> damn used 'trivial' twice
13:49 < eddyb> Grum: hmm? I thought this structure fit better with your need for nesting. feel free to throw it away :)
13:49 < Grum> its exactly the same as json :/
13:49 < Grum> except that json has a proven (and not slow) parser
13:49 < eddyb> it *is* JSON
13:49 < dx> er yeah it is
13:50 < dx> he's just suggesting an alternate structure
13:50 < Grum> its not?
13:50 < Grum> well
13:50 < Grum> i guess it is
13:50 <+md_5> It is
13:50 < dx> did you click the wrong link or what
13:50 < Grum> and then you need a lot of horrible array-prodding
13:50 <+md_5> Look closely
13:50 < dx> it's json that uses lists instead of objects with named attributes
13:50 < eddyb> Grum: I feel like this is easier to handle than based on the presence of certain keys on objects
13:50 < Grum> actually those are positional attributes
13:51 < Grum> which are .... horrible
13:51 < dx> Grum: only the first attribute has special meaning
13:51 < Grum> so you are saying you can convey and random k=>v map to index-based stuff without having either gaps or lots of 'magic' while parsing?
13:52 < Grum> this would actually make it worse when you aprse it
13:52 < Grum> *parse it; because you need more external context to understand it
13:52 < dx> uhm
13:52 < dx> what
13:52 < eddyb> you wanted nesting, I gave you nesting. at least I tried. here's the converter: https://gist.github.com/eddyb/5652486#file-converter-js
13:53 < Grum> there is more than just italic ... bold, underline, links to other things
13:54 < Grum> i mean, the json is pretty self explanatory
13:54 < eddyb> and each gets a prefix
13:54 <+md_5> Links are just text
13:54 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-5/±4] http://git.io/HC69fQ
13:54 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde 40682ea - kill awesomium with fire
13:54 <+md_5> Which you match with aregex
13:54 < eddyb> I used c(olor), i(talic), t(ranslate), you can add any number of "functions"
13:54 < Grum> different links md_5
13:55 < Grum> things that would show a tooltip for example
13:55 <+md_5> What kind of links....
13:55 < Grum> or open a gui
13:55 < Grum> or name it
13:55 < eddyb> ['l', 'whatever', ...]
13:55 < eddyb> as opposed to {color: 'green', link: 'foobar', using: [...]}
13:56 < Grum> why would that be better?
13:56 < Grum> because you us a single character?
13:56 < eddyb> that and the way it nests
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13:57 < eddyb> I guess I'm falling into the Haskell sin, despite not using it
13:57 < dx> doing array[0] array[1] is more efficient than doing hash table access, too
13:57 < Grum> yeah also gives far more horrible code
13:58 < Grum> i mean, if these couple of bytes will end up being THAT much of difference we can always optimize it alter
13:58 < Grum> *later
13:59 < dx> i can write a trivial parser myself for eddyb's format, too
13:59 < Grum> sure you can
13:59 < dx> without a single hash table
13:59 < Grum> not sure how that matters
13:59 < Grum> you can write code for all the things
13:59 < dx> emphasis in trivial
13:59 <+md_5> Which means you can too
14:00 < dav1d> I have to agree with grum, blub[0] with rather magical indices is definitly worse than blub["font"]
14:00 < Grum> dx: go start and write a library that is properly tested
14:00 < Grum> oh also easy to use obviously
14:00 < dx> Grum: library for what
14:00 <+md_5> We ate giving you hints, go consider them and don't just retort unit test. 100 heads are better than one
14:01 < Grum> dx: to do thos?
14:01 < Grum> (ths
14:01 < Grum> gah *this
14:01 < Grum> md_5: as i said before, the *FIRST* thing i said when dinnerbone said json was: 'size might be too big' (and he'll probably just confirm it)
14:01 < Grum> but really its premature optimization
14:01 < dx> Grum: define "this", i just talked about an efficient parser that supports this subset of json
14:02 < Grum> why would we want to use a subset-parser of json?
14:02 < dx> you don't
14:02 < Grum> we have perfectly working json libs
14:02 < eddyb> Rust/Scala/ES6 mashup: html = (x) =>match(x) {['c', color, ...rest] => '<span style=color:'+color+'>'+rest.map(html).join('')+'</span>'; ['t', name, ...args] => translate(name).format(...args);};
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14:02 < Grum> meh. /me flags this as premature optimization
14:02 < dx> i just said that if i had a client i could have more efficient parsing of a greater amount of messages with that
14:02 < dx> it is NOT something for you
14:03 < eddyb> err, ...args.map(html); although maybe pointless example
14:03 < dav1d> and who parses the html? :P
14:03 < dav1d> s/who/what/
14:03 < dx> he did say ES6
14:03 < eddyb> dav1d: I could create DOM nodes or use jQuery, but I'm lazy
14:04 < dav1d> eddyb: na I mean in a client :P
14:04 < eddyb> Grum: it's the best of both JSON and XML :-). ok, I'm done now :P
14:04 < eddyb> dav1d: there you would probably just change the style as you're doing this
14:04 < dav1d> eddyb: that wasn't serious
14:04 < dav1d> *I wasn't
14:05 -!- umby24|offline [~umby24@cpe-66-69-92-104.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #mcdevs
14:05 < dx> (my window manager broke, using irc from a 80x25 tty is fun)
14:05 <+md_5> Reboot
14:06 < eddyb> aboot
14:06 < dx> i'm just staying in this tty to debug the issue
14:06 <+md_5> What wm?
14:07 < dx> "qtile", written in python, i just use it for the fun of being part of the development
14:07 <+md_5> Doesn't sound pretty, what distro?
14:07 < dx> arch linux
14:08 < dx> it's actually rather mature/stable now, but i've been using it for a long time
14:09 -!- umby24|offline [~umby24@cpe-66-69-92-104.satx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
14:10 < dav1d> :D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_8om4dsEmw
14:12 -!- umby24|offline [~umby24@cpe-66-69-92-104.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #mcdevs
14:14 < eddyb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WD6tTOcq0Vo better
14:20 < dx> okay done, fixed a bug \o/
14:20 < dx> dav1d: oh hey, that talk, i love it.
14:24 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1989 6 files : Converted VanillaMapGen to the new architecture, and hooked it up to AddWorldPopup
14:24 < dx> dav1d: "help qtile grow exponentially" :D
14:24 < dav1d> dx: that was the best thing^^
14:24 < dav1d> we only need two of you :D
14:24 < dx> (actually i think we had like 20 total users back then)
14:25 < dx> now there's something like 400 stars on github, i couldn't believe it when i saw that
14:27 < dx> also i gave a lightning talk about qtile in a local pycon, but it sucked compared to this one :D
14:27 < dx> (before the one in this video)
14:35 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1990 2 files : "Preview mode" dropdown is now functional on AddWorldPopup
14:45 -!- XAMPP_8 [~XAMPP8@199.254.116.104] has joined #mcdevs
14:45 -!- XAMPP_8 [~XAMPP8@199.254.116.104] has quit [Client Quit]
14:46  * dx cough
14:46 < dx> can someone remind me what the "infinicraft" protocol was supposed to be?
14:47 < dx> i wanted to read about it earlier but it seems the few docs about it got nuked
14:47 -!- XAMPP-8 [~XAMPP8@199.254.116.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
14:51 < Yoshi2> hm, wasn't infinicraft a server framework where clusters of servers formed a single server? That protocol would probably have been used for interactions between the servers in the cluster
14:51 < Yoshi2> I think there was a project like that, but I don't remember it very well
14:53 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r1991 2 files : Improved progress reporting during generation for FlatMapGen and VanillaMapGen. Neither is cancelable yet.
15:04 -!- TomyLobo [~TomyLobo@91-66-112-147-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #mcdevs
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15:23 -!- mode/#mcdevs [+v SpaceManiac] by ChanServ
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16:22 < AnotherOne> i have a strange problem
16:23 < AnotherOne> after some time of being logged in to server, it sends 0x0D and disconnects me wothout 0xFF
16:24 < AnotherOne> it is bukkit server
16:25 -!- umby24|offline [~umby24@cpe-66-69-92-104.satx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
16:26 < dx> can vanilla clients use it normally? if so, you're parsing it wrong
16:27 < dx> this wouldn't be a problem if we had packet length headers, but you don't care about that stuff
16:27 -!- umby24|offline [~umby24@cpe-66-69-92-104.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #mcdevs
16:27 < AnotherOne> i do care:)
16:28 < dx> herp
16:30 < AnotherOne> that server kicks anyone who hasn't type /login in N seconds
16:30 < AnotherOne> but in that case client must get 0xFF
16:31 < dx> do you get just the 0x0D byte? or does it have a full player position payload?
16:32 < AnotherOne> full
16:32 < dx> do the contents make sense?
16:33 < AnotherOne> yes
16:33 < AnotherOne> the same position that is sent on auth
16:35 < AnotherOne> and this packet is sent after random period of time
16:35 < AnotherOne> every time different
16:35 < AnotherOne> oh
16:36 < AnotherOne> server does kick me
16:37 <+ammar2> are you doing the keep alive processing
16:38 < AnotherOne> sure
16:44 < Grum> <dx> this wouldn't be a problem if we had packet length headers, but you don't care about that stuff <-- you know you could jsut parse it right ;)
16:45 < Grum> i mean, write a unittest orso ;)
16:47 -!- mbaxter [~mbaxter@mcblockit/staff/mbaxter] has joined #mcdevs
16:49 < dx> i never heard of mcblockit before
16:49 < Grum> you clearly must not care for it!
16:49 <+ammar2> it was like the next and better mcbans
16:49 <+ammar2> then everyone abandoned ship
16:49 < dx> :(
16:49 < Not-001> [Miners] Wallbraker pushed 8 commits to master [+7/-2/±10] http://git.io/ZAu73Q
16:49 < Not-001> [Miners] Wallbraker 355b0eb - charge: Split the charge include module into sub modules
16:49 < Not-001> [Miners] Wallbraker e0b47ce - game: Keep reference to mouse and keyboard in app
16:49 < Not-001> [Miners] Wallbraker e2be31d - game: Minor fixes for Car
16:49 < Not-001> [Miners] Wallbraker 34b17d3 - game: Rework primtive actors a bit
16:49 < Not-001> [Miners] Wallbraker 1e617b7 - game: Rework static actors a bit
16:49 < Not-001> [Miners] Wallbraker e2ff07b - test: Remove nonsensical tests
16:50 < Not-001> [Miners] Wallbraker 2dbcf51 - test: Stop using SDL calls directly
16:50 < Not-001> [Miners] Wallbraker 6efcd15 - test: Simplify Game a bit
16:50 < dx> now mbaxter will think this channel is 99% notifico spam
16:50 -!- Calinou [~Calinou@unaffiliated/calinou] has joined #mcdevs
16:50 < mbaxter> Yup.
16:50 < mbaxter> What a mess
16:50 < dx> lol
16:50 -!- zh32 is now known as zh32|away
16:50 -!- zh32|away is now known as zh32
16:51 < mbaxter> Yeah, mcblockit was a cute idea founded by a bunch of mcbans staffers fired in a witchhunt.
16:51 < dx> fun
16:51 < mbaxter> I coded the plugin for them as a challenge, and before I was done (which was like two weeks) they'd all abandoned ship
16:51 < mbaxter> But I got a shiny host thing out of it :P
16:51 < dx> 'unaffiliated' is so boring
16:52 < mbaxter> Indeed.
16:52 <+pdelvo> I like my cloak :D
16:52 < Calinou> unaffiliated master race
16:53 < Calinou> for trolls, by trolls
16:53 < dx> pdelvo: nice :D
16:53 < Calinou> inb4 PDPC
16:53 < Calinou> lol trusted
16:54 < dx> i could ask for one of a project in which i was a core dev a few years ago.. but meh
16:54 < dx> my friend who started that project has a "grandpa" cloak for it
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16:58 < mbaxter> Late for the conversation, but I'm not sure I see it answered in the gist: 
16:59 < mbaxter> mid-message color changes would be handled by a critical mass of nesting?
17:00 < Grum> yeah
17:00 < Grum> because currently $r wipes the whole stack
17:02 < mbaxter> Exciting.
17:02 < Grum> not really
17:03 < mbaxter> Well, it was either 'exciting' or 'user-readable is useless for packets'
17:03 < Grum> anyhow that was not the reason for the change
17:03 < Grum> nor is readability :p
17:06 < mbaxter> If it were, I'd have petitioned for xml :P
17:06 < Grum> xml is juk :(
17:06 < AnotherOne> how to do unaffiliated?
17:07 < dx> join #freenudes, ask for it
17:08 < dav1d> xd
17:08 < dx> xd
17:08 < Yoshi2> now everything makes sence
17:09 < Yoshi2> freenode, freenudes
17:09 < Yoshi2> it's all related
17:09 < dx> actually my favorite feature of this network is that you can set channel redirects
17:09 < dx> so if anyone cared to keep that channel alive, you could tell people to join #freenudes and appear in #freenode
17:09 < Grum> i bet they implemented it by making a proxy that parses all chat!
17:09 < dx> uhm..
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17:11 < dx> Grum: well the ircd software is open source, the protocol is designed to be scalable and it's trivial to add features, so there's no need to do that kind of stuff if the feature didn't exist already
17:12 < dav1d> dx: I think that was related to md_5 
17:12 < Grum> =)
17:12 < dx> dav1d: =)
17:14 < dx> according to this command freenode is handling 76 thousand users at this moment
17:15 < dx> over 27 servers
17:15 < dx> being able to link ircds is a great feature, don't you think?
17:16 < Grum> not relaly
17:16 < Grum> they could just make a server that holds >1500 people ;)
17:16  * mbaxter read that as not relay, which was oddly relevant.
17:16 < dx> this server does have 6680 users connected, actually
17:16 < Grum> not bad :)
17:17 < dx> the fact that chat messages are plaintext and require almost no processing helps
17:17 < Grum> i wonder how many are bots :p
17:17 < mbaxter> all but five
17:17 < Grum> not really, the server is not reading the messages at all :p
17:17 < Grum> well only until the first ':'
17:17 < dx> yeah, they extract that information and broadcast it to the other servers
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17:19 < dx> i'm sure that those channels with 1000+ users generate a good amount of bandwidth for every message sent
17:19 < dx> good thing it's just plaintext limited to 400 eight bit characters
17:19 < Grum> i guess it should compress the data ;)
17:19 < Grum> and chunk it per 2-3 seconds :P
17:20 <+ammar2> don't forget threading, more threading will decrease the cpu :P
17:20 < Grum> oh yes!
17:21 <+AndrewPH> I hope they add a modding api to it
17:21 <+AndrewPH> so that we can make pvp ircds
17:22 < Grum> nah just release the source~!
17:22 < mbaxter> Ah, so this is #mccirclejerk
17:22 <+AndrewPH> hungergames ircd
17:22 <+AndrewPH> mbaxter: that's my favorite mcdonalds thing
17:22 < dx> mbaxter: i have no idea what you're talking about, this is just plain offtopic about irc servers
17:22 < mbaxter> Ew.
17:23 < mbaxter> dx: gosh, you're right. 
17:23 < dx> we do talk about completely unrelated stuff sometimes
17:23 < Grum> unacceptable
17:23 < Grum> ban everything
17:25  * ammar2 sets mode +b *!*@*
17:26 < dx> backup channel in case everyone gets banned: #craft.net
17:27 <+clonejo> dx: don't you think that's a bad choice :P
17:27 < dx> clonejo: :D
17:27 < mbaxter> ammar2: Best way to terrify a channel is to throw a control character into *!*@* and actually ban that.
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17:28 < dx> mbaxter: oh hey it actually works in freenode, nice
17:29 < mbaxter> Then another op will unban *!*@* and probably clear the ban list :P
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17:32 < Not-001> [Miners] Wallbraker pushed 1 commit to master [+3/-3/±24] http://git.io/akMLrg
17:32 < Not-001> [Miners] Wallbraker 9c768f3 - charge: s/Runner/Scene/g
17:38 < AnotherOne> i have butthurt
17:38 < dx> the topic still says "publicly logged" but i've never heard about the location of these public logs
17:39 < eddyb> maybe it's a ruse :P
17:40 < dav1d> feepbot probably
17:40 < dav1d> but no idea where feep puts the logs if he even logs
17:40 < dx> it was something about being required to put it on the topic but without deciding how to publish it, IIRC
17:41 < dav1d> BraLa <3
17:41 < dx> hm?
17:41 < dav1d> 500 fps in a jungle looking at a desert
17:41 < dav1d> minecraft: ~80-100fps
17:43 < dx> lol, don't compare at this stage
17:43 < dx> i'm sure you're doing less stuff
17:43 < dav1d> yeah of course :)
17:44 < dav1d> btw I had smooth lighting disabled in minecraft
17:48 <+pdelvo> whats the name of your gpu?
17:48 < mbaxter> bob
17:49 < Yoshi2> my gpu is also called bob, maybe yours and mine could be friends, mbaxter :D
17:49 <+AndrewPH> mine's is boob
17:50 < dx> mine is richard
17:50 <+pdelvo> stop making fun of me! :D
17:51 <+AndrewPH> never!
17:51 <+pdelvo> I just noticed that minecraft without mipmap & aa & antisotropic filtering looks like crap :/
17:52 < dav1d> pdelvo: gtx 560ti
17:52 <+pdelvo> ah ok
17:53 < dav1d> ah yeah I think I have mipmaps enabled, but with anisotropic filtering it looks strange
17:54 <+pdelvo> I got a gtx 660ti. I think mipmap without aa & antisotropic filtering looks strange
17:55 <+pdelvo> btx have you ever tried a 8x8 texture pack? it looks like you are in a mini world
17:55 < dx> ..mini?
17:55 < dx> it makes things seem smaller?
17:55 <+pdelvo> jeah
17:57 <+pdelvo> it looks very funny: http://pdelvo.de/mini.png
17:57 < dav1d> I used a 8x8 in brala for a long time
17:58 < dav1d> didnt look too bad
17:58 <+pdelvo> are item frames working in brala?
17:58 < dav1d> no entity
17:58 < dav1d> if I had time :(
17:59 <+pdelvo> it would be interesting how they are performing in brala. the performance in minecraft is horrible
17:59 < dav1d> not sure how I would draw them
17:59 < AnotherOne> what is brala?
17:59 <+pdelvo> we have got a shop on a server with item frames. if you are in it it laggs crazy
18:00 < dav1d> AnotherOne: my client
18:00 < AnotherOne> how long are you developing it?
18:01 < Calinou> \o/ actual desktop users
18:01 < Calinou> dav1d and pdelvo 
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18:01 < dav1d> Calinou: :D
18:01 < Calinou> *60ti sucks at high details though
18:01 -!- zh32|away is now known as zh32
18:01 < Calinou> the 660ti
18:01 < dav1d> AnotherOne: not sure, maybe 1 year?
18:01 < AnotherOne> hehe
18:01 < dav1d> I had huge gaps inbetween
18:01 < dav1d> e.g. last ~6 month I didn't touch much code
18:02 <+pdelvo> Im upgrading my gpu to a gtx 780 which is (after the titan) the most powerful single gpu card avialable. maybe I can play minecraft without laggs in that shop
18:02 -!- Not-001 [~notifico@198.199.82.216] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:02 <+pdelvo> but maybe not
18:02 < AnotherOne> now i dont worry about amount of time this takes
18:02 < Yoshi2> buying the most powerful gpu to play minecraft without lag? That is what I call dedicated
18:02 -!- _eddyb_ [~eddy@unaffiliated/eddyb] has joined #mcdevs
18:03 <+pdelvo> no im not buying it just for minecraft :D
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18:03 < dav1d> pdelvo: for what then?
18:03 < dav1d> you could donate me your "old" one :P
18:03 < Yoshi2> ah, okay
18:03 <+pdelvo> And the titan is actually about 10% faster (and costs 300€ more)
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18:04 <+pdelvo> metro, tomb raider, crysis
18:04 < dav1d> woot
18:04 < dav1d> I bet they would even run on my 560ti smootly
18:04 < dav1d> *smoothly
18:05 <+pdelvo> I can play them smoothy too, but not at the settings I would like to
18:05 <+pdelvo> I got a evga 660ti and they exchange my old card for the difference to the 780
18:10 < dav1d> ah yeah forgot to mention, brala runs a 128x128 while minecraft uses a 16x16
18:10 < dav1d> but brala loves heating up the GPU xD
18:10 < dav1d> 70° already
18:11 <+pdelvo> do you know furmark? this is heating up your gpu :D
18:11 < dav1d> then the vent jumps in
18:11 < dav1d> the benchmark? yeah
18:11 < Calinou> never got more than 60°C on my ref 570
18:11 < dav1d> but never tried it
18:11 < Calinou> you're in a room with 30°C ambient temp?
18:11 < Calinou> ._.
18:11 < dav1d> Calinou: ~20
18:11 <+AndrewPH> my 8800gts idles at 70c
18:12 < Calinou> dry thermal paste, or heatsink isn't fixed properly, AndrewPH 
18:12 <+AndrewPH> Calinou: and it maxes at 80c
18:12 <+AndrewPH> usually
18:12 < dav1d> when the vent makes my room vibrate it sstarts cooling down again
18:12 <+AndrewPH> (bad airflow through my case lol)
18:13 < dav1d> you mean no airflow lol
18:13 <+pdelvo> my one goes up to 60° at minecraft. in furmark up to 80 (it is overclocked). but 80 isnt a bad temerature for a gpu.
18:14 <+AndrewPH> dav1d: there's airflow
18:14 <+AndrewPH> it's just bad
18:14 <+AndrewPH> to top it off, my card barely fits in there
18:14 <+AndrewPH> almost no air can get out from under it
18:14 <+AndrewPH> (so I leave my case cracked open a bit)
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18:18 < AnotherOne> it works!
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18:18 < dav1d> nice
18:18 < dav1d> (whatever works)
18:18 < AnotherOne> yes:)
18:19 < AnotherOne> the problem is horrible code
18:19 < AnotherOne> refactoring rules
18:19 -!- Not-002 [~notifico@198.199.82.216] has joined #mcdevs
18:19 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 4 commits to master [+1/-1/±13] http://git.io/p5B0Fg
18:19 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde ff7a1d0 - minor performance improvements
18:19 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde dab25c1 - fixed possible segfault when closing brala too early
18:19 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde c31536e - -1 segfaults, happened in Chunk dtor
18:19 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 223fc8a - speed up tessellation
18:19 < dav1d> and I got rid of a segfault!
18:20 < dx> AnotherOne and dav1d confirmed to be the same person
18:20 < dx> which means both of you are pbunny
18:20 < AnotherOne> hahahahaha:D
18:20 < dav1d> dx: I agree! threeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaads!!!!!
18:20 < AnotherOne> what about you?
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18:20 < dx> i'm not pbunny, i love java
18:20 < dav1d> BraLa uses 5 threads in total, but is scaleable!
18:20 < dav1d> you can configure it at runtime to use 20 threads if you want!
18:20 < AnotherOne> f**k threads
18:21 < dav1d> they got rid of two essential problems for me :)
18:21 < AnotherOne> it is said "think portals"
18:21 < AnotherOne> i say "think threads"
18:21 < dx> also who the fuck added that fucking censorship fuck
18:21 < dx> god fucking damn it
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18:21 <+ammar2> dx: so brave
18:21 < AnotherOne> once i learned to think threads, debugging became much easier
18:22 < dx> ammar2: fuck you
18:22 < AnotherOne> wtf dx
18:22 < Yoshi2> once you use threads, you never go back
18:22 < dx> you typo'd, it's wt*
18:22 < AnotherOne> you are such a nice person
18:22 < dx> lol
18:23 < AnotherOne> no no no
18:23 < AnotherOne> correct censorship is fu*ck
18:23 < dx> hahah
18:24 < Yoshi2> fustarck
18:24 < AnotherOne> Yoshi2: threads are nice
18:25 < Yoshi2> yes, they are
18:25 < dx> wait
18:25 < dx> fuck
18:25 < AnotherOne> "never go back" means "you cant go back to childhood"
18:25 < dx> is this "fuck" censored? if it's not i'm going to feel very dumb.
18:25 <+ammar2> it is
18:25 < dx> oh okay
18:26 < AnotherOne> nice little childhood of single-threaded console apps and compile-time erroes
18:26 < AnotherOne> errors*
18:27 < jast> depends on what kind of threads you're talking about
18:28 < jast> native threads don't scale terribly well if you have several of them
18:28 < jast> even green threads often have similar problems
18:29 < jast> they're really only good if they're lightweight enough so you can have hundreds of thousands of 'em
18:29 < jast> then you "only" have the problem of inter-thread communication left
18:31 < AnotherOne> ^
18:31 < AnotherOne> thread hell
18:32 < jast> the sanest thing is message passing, but that's hard to optimize (which you'll need if you have a LOT of communication)
18:32 < AnotherOne> message passing is nice
18:33 < jast> and messing with other kinds of thread synchronization is Very Hard(tm)
18:33  * AnotherOne looks at system clock
18:33 < jast> conditions look viable, too, I suppose
18:33 < AnotherOne> it is refactoring time
18:34 < jast> I suppose message passing (Erlang style) is pretty much the same thing as conditions, only with some data attached to the condition
18:34 < dav1d> ha! close your eyes and pray
18:34 < dav1d> it works for me!
18:34 < jast> condition *variable*, actually, I suppose
18:34 < dav1d> when looking through my code I realized that I had a few threaded accesses to a hash map
18:35 < dav1d> it worked!
18:35 < jast> I never remember these words
18:35 < AnotherOne> dx are you here?
18:35 < dav1d> well access is not the problem but mutating it
18:35 < AnotherOne> this chat is too boring without your swearing
18:35 < jast> dav1d: yeah, and then suddenly unexplainable error. well, tough luck, right? :)
18:35 < dav1d> jast: that's why I got rid of it :P
18:35 < AnotherOne> suddenly unexplainable error
18:35 < AnotherOne> :D lolololo
18:36 < dav1d> well unfortunatly there are still 1-2 of suck lookups, but whatever
18:36 < jast> another great way to get unexplainable error is to use callbacks nested in complex ways
18:36 < dav1d> I use D, I am used to random shit happening
18:36 < dav1d> jast: https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/brala/dine/chunk.d#L104
18:36 < dav1d> jast: where is the bug?
18:36 < dav1d> segfaults when the GC calls the dtor
18:37 < dav1d> is clib.free not threadsafe and segfaults? I doubt that...
18:37 < dav1d> but it does nothing else
18:38 < jast> what's the difference between 'private static ~this()' and '~this()'?
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18:38 < dav1d> jast: none
18:38 < dav1d> jast: oh sorry
18:38 < dav1d> static
18:38 < jast> so that's what, a class-level deconstructor?
18:38 < dav1d> jast: static ~this() is called when everything shuts down
18:38 < jast> oh joy
18:39 < jast> for a freelist kind of thing, I see
18:39 < dav1d> static this() <- called once (per thread); shared static this() <- called once
18:39 < dx> AnotherOne: hi
18:39 < dav1d> same goes for destructors
18:39 < AnotherOne> glad to see you:)
18:40 < dav1d> why I made that private, I dont know^^
18:40 < dav1d> maybe I liked the color of "private" in kdevelop
18:40 < jast> so, the way I understand it, Chunk is initialized by copying the pointer to empty_blocks into blocks
18:40 < AnotherOne> omg
18:41 < AnotherOne> kde is bad
18:41 < jast> so, if you deinit two empty chunks, isn't empty_blocks freed twice?
18:41 < Calinou> old news
18:41 < dav1d> jast: no
18:41 < dav1d> jast: because it won't free: if(!empty) free(...)
18:41 < AnotherOne> hey dav1d, when did your plasma crash last time?
18:41 < Calinou> <AnotherOne> f**k threads => be nice to AMD >:(
18:41 < Calinou> else they will bankrupt :(
18:41 < Calinou> and we'll buy celerons for 500€ :(
18:42 < dav1d> jast: but the segfault happens not when the runtime shutsdown but when the chunk is freed because it goes out of range
18:42 < dav1d> AnotherOne: plasma?
18:42 < Yoshi2> celerons *shudder*
18:42 < Calinou> dav1d: <Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 223fc8a - speed up tessellation => tesselation? for what?
18:42 < AnotherOne> that kde thing
18:42 < Calinou> Yoshi2: celerons are actually fast
18:42 < dav1d> AnotherOne: ?
18:42 < Calinou> they have a shit name but they're decent for their price
18:42 < dav1d> I am not using kde
18:42 < Calinou> much better than pentiums
18:42 < AnotherOne> nevermind
18:43 < dav1d> Calinou: tessellation = process of making triangles out of blocks (in brala)
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18:43 < Calinou> ah
18:43 < dav1d> well it doesn't matter much since it is threaded anyways but, hey, why shouldn't I optimize it, especially if it's so easy to do
18:44 < jast> dav1d: is that a thread-related problem, btw?
18:44 < dav1d> jast: no
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18:45 < AnotherOne> it's all D
18:45 < dav1d> I have no idea why it segfaults the code is fine
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18:45 < dav1d> *should be
18:45 < jast> if this was used in threaded code, conceivably a race condition could crash it... but if it's not threaded, there's no point thinking about that
18:46 < jast> the next easy candidate is that fill_chunk is called with something that is accidentally referenced in several Chunk instances
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18:49 < AnotherOne> do you like python?
18:49 < jast> not particularly
18:50 < dav1d> jast: the GC stops the world, no thread is running! then calls one by one the destructors
18:50 < dav1d> jast: no race condition possible
18:51 < dav1d> jast: will a double free segfault without a libc error?
18:52 < AnotherOne> what is GC?
18:52 <+ammar2> garbage collection
18:52 < AnotherOne> og
18:52 < AnotherOne> oh
18:52 < jast> dav1d: if you turn off double free detection, you get undefined behaviour
18:52 < AnotherOne> disable it
18:52 < jast> so, it could either cause a segfault, or fuck things up quietly
18:53 < dav1d> jast: gah, still shouldn't happen  ... except empty is fucked up, but this can't be the case
18:55 < jast> AnotherOne: if you disable GC in a language that doesn't allow manually freeing objects (I believe D is one of those), memory is never freed and you eventually run out of it
18:55 < AnotherOne> omg
18:55 < AnotherOne> if D cant manually free memory, it is bad
18:55 < AnotherOne> like c# and java
18:56 < dav1d> AnotherOne: lo
18:56 < dav1d> l
18:56 < dav1d> jast: you can manually free
18:56 < dav1d> jast: GC.free for GC allocated memory (if disabled it simply will never collect) and stdlib malloc/free still exists with and without a gc
19:09 < jast> right
19:10 < jast> I looked into D but my interest waned when I discovered that it's one the many languages that doesn't solve the problem of easily handling c10k
19:11 < AnotherOne> what?
19:14 < dav1d> jast: ever looked at vibe?
19:14 < dav1d> http://vibed.org/
19:15 < jast> looks like that's about writing code that looks event-based
19:15 <+Prf_Jakob> jast: c10k?
19:15 <+ammar2> lots of clients https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C10k_problem
19:15 < jast> oh, it doesn't
19:15 < jast> though it's not clear to me whether this actually does scheduling
19:16 < jast> if it doesn't, you have the same problems as in node.js, really, just better hidden :)
19:16 < dav1d> jast: it isn't
19:16 < dav1d> https://github.com/Dav1dde/rcd/blob/master/rcd/ic/inputcontrol.d#L116
19:16 <+Prf_Jakob> ammar2: oh
19:16 <+Prf_Jakob> ammar2: thanks
19:16 < jast> ah, it's cooperative threading
19:16 < jast> that sucks
19:16 < dav1d> the while will never exit
19:16 < dav1d> jast: 0 threads
19:16 < dav1d> well 1, the main thread
19:17 < jast> cooperative multi*tasking*, then, if you prefer
19:17 < dav1d> :P
19:17 < jast> cooperative multitasking is the reason windows 3.11 is still relevant today
19:19 < jast> the thing is, this kind of model is lots more bearble with preemptive multitasking
19:19 < jast> and you need support for that baked into the language
19:22 < jast> go does have this baked in, but I don't like it for other reasons (which I find hard to articulate, so let's not go into this)
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20:14 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±7] http://git.io/Nqgdmg
20:14 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 930572c - Fixed the chunk chaining bug. Lighting still needs work
20:14 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 8bda1a2 - Added block placement sounds
20:14 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-1/±1] http://git.io/YD9Q6w
20:14 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde e1dcc6b - removed leftover ui files
20:17 < Not-002> [Miners] Wallbraker pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/ErkDRQ
20:17 < Not-002> [Miners] Wallbraker a531bc2 - sys: Fix ZipFile not working
20:17 < Not-002> [Miners] Wallbraker 6be06d5 - test: Use ZipFile package in game
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20:38 < AnotherOne> dav1d, may i ask you a provocating question?
20:39 < dav1d> AnotherOne: lol go ahead
20:39 < AnotherOne> what do germans think about nazism?
20:40 < ShaRose> that's pretty obvious
20:42 < dav1d> AnotherOne: you mean 1933+ or now?
20:42 < dx> lol
20:42 < AnotherOne> now
20:42 < AnotherOne> and then
20:43 < dav1d> I find them somehow funny, they are so retarded
20:43 < dav1d> but on the other hand it's so sad
20:43 < AnotherOne> why?
20:43 < dav1d> problem is not what they say, the problem is they believe in it
20:43 < dav1d> I can only explain this with stupidity
20:44 < AnotherOne> heh, fukken uber
20:44 < dav1d> back then, well, I guess we are thinking about it as nearly every other country (my generation and probably my parents generation)
20:45 < dav1d> I can't really identify the germany as it was ~1930 with the current situation
20:45 < AnotherOne> but what now, man?
20:45 < dav1d> *current germany
20:45 < AnotherOne> Germany is full of arabs
20:45 < AnotherOne> savages
20:45 < dav1d> not really, more turks :P
20:46 < AnotherOne> i heard somewhere in europe man who protected his own wife from rape by black men was jailed for racism
20:47 < AnotherOne> do you like turks?
20:48 < dav1d> I never heared that
20:48 < dav1d> "do you like turks", what a question...
20:49 < AnotherOne> i mean are they ok?
20:49 < AnotherOne> or like american ghetto dwellers?
20:49 <+pdelvo> I dont know american ghetto dwellers
20:50 < AnotherOne> google "nigger"
20:51 <+pdelvo> you cannot say that every turk is the same. there are assholes in every culture
20:51 < AnotherOne> what about majoruty?
20:51 < AnotherOne> majority*
20:52 <+pdelvo> the oney I have contact with are okay
20:53 <+Prf_Jakob> AnotherOne: please drop this conversation subject, its bound to turn sour at some point.
20:53 <+Prf_Jakob> nor is it on topic at all.
20:53 < AnotherOne> heh
20:53 < AnotherOne> ok
20:55 < AnotherOne> i was thinking of moving to Germany. how good must i be at programmming to have a nice job there?
20:55 -!- zh32 is now known as zh32|away
20:55 < AnotherOne> say, sonewhere near Berlin, but not in there
20:56 < AnotherOne> some*
20:56 <+Prf_Jakob> propbably as good as any other place.
20:57 < AnotherOne> i dont think so
20:57 < redu> yea, with all the working from home etc
20:59 -!- Yoshi2| [~chatzilla@xdsl-78-35-207-110.netcologne.de] has joined #mcdevs
21:00 < Grum> wait AnotherOne, so you are a neonazi turk? ;D
21:00 -!- Yoshi2 [~chatzilla@xdsl-87-78-128-46.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
21:00 -!- Yoshi2| is now known as Yoshi2
21:00 < Yoshi2> be skilled, be good with teamwork, have a good portfolio, etc.
21:00 < AnotherOne> apolitical ukrainian:)
21:00 < Yoshi2> the usual stuff, as far as I can tell
21:01 < Grum> know how to google, know english or german (if you do not know german, find an international company)
21:01 -!- zh32|away is now known as zh32
21:01 < AnotherOne> i want to learn german
21:01 < AnotherOne> right after english
21:02 < Grum> hmmm is ukraine eu? i really cant remember O.o
21:02 < AnotherOne> lol, yes
21:02 < Grum> well then moving at least is super trivial
21:03 < Grum> i guess the barest minimum is being 'fluent' enough in english
21:04 < AnotherOne> used google translate for word "fluent"... damnit
21:04 < Grum> hehe
21:05 < Grum> just be able to read/write/speak/listen to  the basics :)
21:05 < Yoshi2> afaik the Ukraine is not yet part of the EU, so I'm not sure if moving into a different country in Europa will be that simple
21:05 < Grum> hmm actually it isnt indeed
21:05 < Grum> that means moving is going to be as annoying as it is from the US
21:08 < AnotherOne> well it is early to think about details
21:08 < Grum> not sure it is, moving from the US takes 8months orso :p
21:09 < AnotherOne> yes it is, im a student now
21:10 < AnotherOne> the variant is exchange program or something...
21:14 < AnotherOne> but let's get back to the topic of this channel
21:14 < AnotherOne> i'm thinking of message processing
21:15 < AnotherOne> now i have a function that parses next message and does something. actually it is a big switch 
21:15 -!- Cay [~OlofLarss@s83-177-171-150.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:16 < AnotherOne> if i want to use my protocol library in other project, i have to copy this function and edit it
21:16 < AnotherOne> how can i avoid this?
21:16 <+pdelvo> what about not using a switch?
21:17 < AnotherOne> what then?
21:17 <+pdelvo> use a array. the key is the packet id, and the value is some kind of pointer where the packet reading is implemented. this is one day to do that
21:17 < AnotherOne> nice
21:18 < AnotherOne> i will try, thank you
21:18 <+pdelvo> np
21:19 -!- zh32 is now known as zh32|away
21:20 < AnotherOne> or not nice...
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21:24 -!- Seegeee [4a5839cb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.88.57.203] has joined #mcdevs
21:24 < Seegeee> Hello everyone
21:24 < Seegeee> I need some help with SMProxy...
21:24 < AnotherOne> looks like this will not work with my architecture
21:24 < AnotherOne> hi
21:24 < Seegeee> Hey
21:24 < Seegeee> Whats up
21:24 <+pdelvo> hi
21:25 < Seegeee> Hey
21:25 < Seegeee> So im trying to setup SMProxy to see the format of some packets that the client sends to the server.
21:25 < Seegeee> But I dont know what port to listen on locally...
21:25 -!- GameMakerGm [~gamemaker@wikia/Gamemakergm] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
21:28 < Seegeee> This is how im doing it atm: http://g0ogle.org/img.php?img=fhji02r0m529ztvjmvtzij9d0.png g0d.ca is the server im connecting to (my server)
21:28 < Seegeee> But SMProxy doesnt generate any logs, im on the server in the MC client also
21:30 < dx> sadimusi: renaming your fork of mc3p to mc4p when
21:30 -!- Calinou [~Calinou@unaffiliated/calinou] has joined #mcdevs
21:31 < AnotherOne> g0ogle.org
21:31 < Seegeee> My domain :p
21:31 < AnotherOne> looks like a fishing site
21:31 < Seegeee> Its a screenshot software that I made xD
21:31 < AnotherOne> fukken dangerous
21:32 < Calinou> -1 for using "fukke"n
21:32 < Calinou> s/"n/n"
21:32 < Seegeee> Yea... Kaspery thinks its a phisher I think... Because of the domain
21:33 < Seegeee> But does anyone know whats wrong? I assume I am lsitening on the wrong port... What port does MC send packets back to?
21:33 < dx> ITC: domain squatters
21:33 < dx> the other day some guy joined with a "minecraft.org" hostmask
21:34 < Seegeee> :o
21:35 < dx> that website did no attempt to make it clear that it's not .net, and had a download page that linked to a minecraft classic 0.30 client with a bunch of hacks
21:35 < mbaxter> nifty!
21:35 < Seegeee> xD http://g0ogle.org/ isnt like google at all so I think im good.
21:35 < dx> still counts as squatting but yeah it's not bad
21:36 < Seegeee> I guess xD
21:36 < dx> congrats on owning that domain
21:36 < Seegeee> It makes me feel special ;)
21:36 < Seegeee> xD
21:37 < dx> Seegeee: so uh
21:37 < dx> Seegeee: did you point your client to connect to localhost:25564?
21:38 < Seegeee> Well its not a localhost server
21:38 < dx> derp
21:38 < Seegeee> Its hosted on my dedi
21:38 < dx> that's where you're failing then
21:38 < Seegeee> Wait... Is this a server side proxy... Kind of...
21:38 < dx> you're running smproxy in your own windows computer
21:38 < dx> it listens at localhost
21:38 < dx> connect there.
21:38 < Seegeee> OH.
21:39 < dx> :3
21:39 < Seegeee> Wwait
21:39 < Seegeee> does it act as a serever
21:39 < Seegeee> on its own?
21:39 < barneygale> Yes
21:39 < dx> dude
21:39 < Seegeee> OH xD
21:39 < dx> do you know what a 'proxy' is?
21:39 < Seegeee> I thought it sniffed the outgoing packets
21:39 < barneygale> all proxies are servers
21:39 < Seegeee> BUt most of them act as a gateway
21:39 < Seegeee> to connect to another sort of server..
21:39 < barneygale> aye, that's what makes them proxies and not simply servers
21:39 < dx> yes, they still look like a server to the client
21:40 < Seegeee> Hm
21:40 < Seegeee> Ok
21:40 < Seegeee> Let me try that
21:40 < Seegeee> Im guessing its not 1.5.2?
21:40 < dx> no idea
21:40 -!- zh32|away is now known as zh32
21:40 < dx> the guy who develops smproxy had an accident and is no longer with us
21:40 < Seegeee> I have seen him over in Craft.net IRC...
21:40 < Calinou> read: drugs
21:40 < Seegeee> SirCmpwn... right?
21:41 < dx> yes
21:41 < dx> he's no longer with us. literally.
21:41 < Calinou> read: alcohol, wayland
21:41 < dx> lol
21:41 < Calinou> read: MLP
21:41 < dx> lol seriously
21:41 < Seegeee> Shit...
21:41 < Seegeee> Yea SMProxy crashes when I try to connect
21:41 < Seegeee> I think im using a really old version xD
21:42 < Seegeee> I found a random precompiled version somewhere...
21:42 < dx> typical windows user
21:42 < Seegeee> http://g0ogle.org/img.php?img=dr1hybp3z9phr0rmagrfxufk.png  thats what the error was
21:42 < dx> grab binaries from any random place without caring who built them
21:43 < dx> lol
21:43 < dx> derp
21:43 < dx> you're still doing it wrong
21:43 < Seegeee> Wait
21:43 < Seegeee> I need to run a MC server also right...
21:43 < Seegeee> The way you said it, I thought you meant SMProxy was the MC server...
21:44 < Seegeee> Got kind of confused
21:44 < AnotherOne> Calinou: what is wrong with "fukken"?
21:45 < Calinou> nothing :-)
21:45 < Calinou> <dx> derp
21:45 < Calinou> <dx> you're still doing it wrong
21:45 < Calinou> => gentoo user spotted
21:45 < dx> Calinou: haha what
21:46 < Seegeee> Well thats a helpful error... http://g0ogle.org/img.php?img=r8auc4x9bid8mkhcf7szf9c2x.png 
21:46 < dx> fun
21:47 < Seegeee> f for fun I guess?
21:47 < dx> most likely, yes
21:48 < Seegeee> I should probably build this with the newest source...
21:48 < dx> anyway, proxies 101: you have a server in the address "SERVER" port "25565", you run a proxy locally, tell the proxy to connect to SERVER:25565, and to listen in a local post 25564. then you connect your minecraft client to localhost:25564
21:48 < Seegeee> Thats what I did :)
21:49 <+Prf_Jakob> dx: when you say with us, you mean here (I know he is banned from here)? Or do you mean in life?
21:49 < dx> Prf_Jakob: lol sorry, banned
21:49 < Seegeee> Yea I coudln't tell either
21:49 < Seegeee> xD
21:49 < dx> i do that on purpose to confuse new people
21:49 < Seegeee> Yay It works :p
21:50 <+Prf_Jakob> dx: don't do that please.
21:50 < dx> like, i kill mbaxter every time someone ask for him in the channel of his plugin
21:50 < dx> Prf_Jakob: noted, won't do that here anymore.
21:50 <+Prf_Jakob> thanks
21:50 < Seegeee> Oh my, this makes some big logs...
21:51 < dx> are we still talking about minecraft?
21:51 < Seegeee> Im talking about SMProxy
21:51 < dx> gotcha, was worried for a sec.
21:51 < Seegeee> xD
21:52  * mbaxter kills dx
21:52 < dx> mbaxter: :D
21:52 < mbaxter> ._.
21:53 < dx> mbaxter: you gotta admit that being dead helps you avoid annoying things that happen during life, such as "Builder874"
21:54 < mbaxter> lol
21:55 < redu> PARKOUR!!!!! Ep. 1 whoa
21:56 < AnotherOne> wat
21:58 -!- edlothiol [~edlothiol@95-91-255-238-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
22:02 < Seegeee> Ill be back a little later. Thanks for your help :)
22:02 -!- Seegeee [4a5839cb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.88.57.203] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
22:02 -!- zh32 is now known as zh32|away
22:02 < Not-002> [Miners] Wallbraker pushed 4 commits to master [+2/-2/±12] http://git.io/UsZsvA
22:02 < Not-002> [Miners] Wallbraker 9ec85ad - mc: Fix deletion in dtor
22:02 < Not-002> [Miners] Wallbraker 7eb8e6c - mc: Refactor SceneBase
22:02 < Not-002> [Miners] Wallbraker 1d9e47c - mc: Refactor ClassicPlayer
22:02 < Not-002> [Miners] Wallbraker 6d53b69 - mc: Refactor ClassicConnection related things
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22:23 < AnotherOne> O gothic moon thy shine encharmest me tonight
22:24 < AnotherOne> damnit. old english is nice
22:30 < dx> yeah nah
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22:44 < dav1d> AnotherOne: just out of curiosity, did you ask because you're arab?
22:44 < AnotherOne> nope:)
22:44 < AnotherOne> i told
22:44 < dav1d> ah k
22:45 < AnotherOne> i asked because i am curious:)
22:47 < AnotherOne> sorry about sequence of tenses
22:48 < AnotherOne> i must learn it
22:48 < dx> is it politically incorrect to think that nazis had cool uniforms?
22:48 < AnotherOne> lol
22:49 < dx> even the logo looks cool, but they had to put all of that negative meaning over everything ;_;
22:49 < AnotherOne> why do people build swastikas in minecraft?
22:50 < dx> "why is there immature people?"
22:50 < AnotherOne> dx: http://img11.nnm.ru/3/4/1/c/9/341c9c5d10c77b07fd2774b9b6517e58_full.jpg
22:50 < dx> AnotherOne: lolwtf is that
22:50 < AnotherOne> Hanzel und Gretyl
22:50 < AnotherOne> nice band
22:51 < dx> "Due to their heavy use of German lyrics, imagery and German-sounding pseudonyms, they are often mistaken for being a German band"
22:51 < dx> fun
22:52 < AnotherOne> i love their texts so much
22:52 < Yoshi2> their uniforms were designed by hugo boss, which is nowadays a very well known german brand for clothing
22:52 < Yoshi2> and I read that even british and american officers thought that the uniforms looked very good
22:52 < AnotherOne> hardcore english/german mix
22:53 < AnotherOne> it reminds me of language used in eastern Ukraine
22:53 < dx> Yoshi2: that was a huge [citation needed], so i googled and got "Hugo Boss Apologizes For Making Nazis Look Fabulous"
22:53 < AnotherOne> hahahahaha
22:53 <+Prf_Jakob> Re: Nazi uniforms http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn1VxaMEjRU
22:54 -!- zh32|away is now known as zh32
22:57 < dx> Prf_Jakob: i lol'd, thanks for linking this
22:57 -!- Yoshi2| [~chatzilla@xdsl-87-78-172-159.netcologne.de] has joined #mcdevs
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23:03 < dav1d> So are we the badies? :D
23:04 < AnotherOne> marching under the symbol of rat's anus
23:04 <+Prf_Jakob> hehe :)
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23:10 -!- redu_ is now known as redu
23:11 -!- Yoshi2| [~chatzilla@xdsl-87-78-123-37.netcologne.de] has joined #mcdevs
23:11 < AnotherOne> i see german town named Siegen in google maps
23:12 < AnotherOne> first thought is a gesture that you all know...
23:12 <+pdelvo> ha....ha......ha
23:12 -!- Yoshi2 [~chatzilla@xdsl-87-78-172-159.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
23:12 -!- Yoshi2| is now known as Yoshi2
23:13 < AnotherOne> what does this word mean actually?
23:13 <+pdelvo> to win
23:14 <+pdelvo> but the name of the town is not related to that name
23:14 <+pdelvo> it was named after a celtic river Sieg (If I can trust wikipedia)
23:15 <+pdelvo> there are actually much funnier german names for towns
23:15 < AnotherOne> for example?
23:15 -!- Yoshi2| [~chatzilla@xdsl-87-78-29-72.netcologne.de] has joined #mcdevs
23:15 <+pdelvo> Not far away from where I live is "Geilenkirchen"
23:16 < Yoshi2|> there are a lot of places with interesting names
23:16 <+pdelvo> there is a town Rom in germany
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23:18 -!- SuinDraw [~NiaTeppel@WiseOS/Founder/NiaTeppelin] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:19 <+clonejo> two villages: Afrika, Dagobertshausen
23:19 < AnotherOne> horny church
23:19 < AnotherOne> wtf
23:19 <+clonejo> yep
23:20 <+pdelvo> there are a lot more. very funny :D http://www.masterplan24.de/weblog/archives/stadtnamen.jpg
23:22 <+clonejo> hahahaha
23:24 < jast> geilenkirchen is 7 train stations from here
23:24 < dx> do i see a city with the same name as austria?
23:25 < jast> I think we have enough data points now to conclude that everyone is close to that city
23:25 < jast> dx: you do!
23:25 <+clonejo> pdelvo: Were do you live?
23:26 <+pdelvo> near Aachen
23:27 <+clonejo> lol
23:27 < jast> that much was fairly safe to assume
23:27 -!- redu [redu@31.185.255.248] has joined #mcdevs
23:27 <+clonejo> pdelvo: jast and me live in Aachen
23:27 <+pdelvo> what the heck oO
23:28 <+pdelvo> I live in Alsdorf :D
23:28 < Not-002> [Miners] Wallbraker pushed 4 commits to master [+8/-6/±11] http://git.io/3sTLcw
23:28 < Not-002> [Miners] Wallbraker 1dd439e - game: Refactor DebuggerScene
23:28 < Not-002> [Miners] Wallbraker 6a0b50e - game: Refactor all Scenes into a seperate folder
23:28 < Not-002> [Miners] Wallbraker 14ac1f6 - game: Refactor SceneManagerApp
23:28 < Not-002> [Miners] Wallbraker 059d2b1 - doc: Update doxygen alias map
23:28 < jast> my condolences :P
23:28 -!- Calinou [~Calinou@unaffiliated/calinou] has quit [Quit: Excess Flood]
23:29 <+clonejo> :DD
23:29 <+pdelvo> the world is so small
23:29 < Yoshi2> hm, it looks like aachen is a bit far away from here
23:29 < dx> why does aachen have completely different names in every language according to wikipedia
23:29 < dx> wtf is "Aquisgrán"
23:29 < jast> historical/geographical reasons, mostly
23:30 < jast> it's right next to the borders of two more countries
23:30 < jast> one of them has three widely spoken languages
23:30 <+clonejo> (Belgium and the Netherlands)
23:30 <+pdelvo> There are 97 persons (maybe some bots too) from  all over the world iin this channel and two of them live just a few km away from me
23:31 < dx> you guys should meet and talk about how bad the minecraft protocol is
23:32 < jast> without spoilering too much... three of them
23:32 <+md_5> Meet up!
23:32 <+md_5> Pics lessee
23:32 <+md_5> Please
23:32 < jast> /whois me for picture
23:32 < dx> i mean you could do that here but i bet it's going to be much more fun if you do it IRL and say angry things about the protocol in an angry german accent
23:32 < Yoshi2> sadly, I'm living at least an hour with the train away from aachen, can't meat you guys very easily
23:33 < jast> Yoshi2: whereabouts
23:33 < jast> ?
23:33 <+clonejo> dx: If you have spoken German all your live, German doesn't sound angry at all.
23:33 < Yoshi2> cologne
23:33 < jast> that's not so bad
23:33 <+pdelvo> we could meet at at gamescom this year too :D
23:33 < jast> I've traveled back and forth hundreds of times
23:33 < jast> I don't go to these things
23:33 < dx> clonejo: heh, i don't think it sounds angry either but stereotypes :D
23:34 < jast> stereotypes are fun
23:34 < jast> for example, did you know all Americans are fat idiots
23:34 < dx> every single one
23:34 < jast> exactly
23:34 < jast> as easily seen on American TV
23:34 <+pdelvo> Did you know all germans are living in Bayern?
23:35 < jast> sure
23:35 < jast> if you understand German quit well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsYRpNvHDRI
23:35 < Yoshi2> I don't know many people from northern germany
23:35 < Yoshi2> most of them are middle or southern
23:35 <+clonejo> Yoshi2: now you know me
23:35 < jast> one of my aunts lives in Hamburg
23:36 <+clonejo> I come from the north sea (Ostfriesland)
23:36 <+md_5> So how do we send in formatted chat on one point sic
23:36 <+md_5> Unformatted
23:37 < Not-002> [Miners] Wallbraker pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±3] http://git.io/EjjeEA
23:37 < Not-002> [Miners] Wallbraker 8f18d30 - charge: Fix module names
23:37 < Yoshi2> ah, it's nice to know you, clonejo :)
23:39 < AnotherOne> and yes
23:39 < AnotherOne> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFosAZOHioY
23:40 < AnotherOne> it's all about stereotypes
23:42 < jast> awesome album cover
23:43 < jast> here's another song about prejudice... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0_wzsOqt8Q
23:46 < AnotherOne> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coJG0vIqGb0 their earlier song, much less "nazism":)
23:46 < jast> kind of funny, but not for long
23:46 < jast> I'd much rather listen to Rammstein instead
23:48 < AnotherOne> not for me:)
23:49 < AnotherOne> fuck!
23:50 < AnotherOne> i don't know how to make my code better
23:50 <+clonejo> Yoshi2, jast, pdelvo: Where should we meetup?
23:50 < AnotherOne> heh
23:51 < AnotherOne> in Geilenkirchen, sure thing
23:51 < jast> no thanks
23:51 < jast> it's actually fairly boring
23:51 < Not-002> [Miners] Wallbraker pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-1/±1] http://git.io/giQu5g
23:51 < Not-002> [Miners] Wallbraker 2c418b5 - test: Remove Lua test
23:53 <+clonejo> well, Aachen would be the most central point
23:53 <+clonejo> but I was rather asking for the kind of location
23:53 < dx> doesn't look central to me
23:54 < jast> it's pretty central to the entire world
23:54 < dx> err...
23:54 -!- Yoshi2 [~chatzilla@xdsl-87-78-29-72.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds]
23:54 < dx> central to the entire world...
23:54 < dx> maybe central to the representation of maps that western people use
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23:56 <+pdelvo> Im actually in Aachen tomorrow. I have to go to the Finanzamt :D
23:56 < jast> you have my sympathy
23:57 <+clonejo> pdelvo: when will you go there?
23:57 < jast> anyway, the problem with such a meetup is that (a) it won't really have anything that ties it together (I refuse to spend an evening talking about minecraft development :P), (b) time constraints and stuff
23:58 <+clonejo> jast: we don't have to do much
23:58 < dav1d> fuck it why did they cancel homeland
23:58 <+pdelvo> very early. Im up at 6am. so I think im there at 8
23:59 <+clonejo> pdelvo: I'll arrive in Aachen at 13:44 :-/
--- Day changed lun. mai 27 2013
00:00 < dav1d> clonejo: you're at home?
00:00 < jast> fwiw I'm busy at all those times (sleeping and working)
00:00 < dav1d> oh a #mcdevs meeting
00:00 < dav1d> I suggest you to meet in vienna
00:00 < dx> I am a massive faggot lol
00:00 < dx> fuck
00:01 < jast> dx: that was a bit random, but we appreciate your honesty
00:01 < dx> sorry for that, friend is at home and saw this channel open
00:01 < dx> really really sorry
00:01 < jast> it's okay. you don't have to pretend. ;o)
00:01 < Yoshi2> your secret is safe with the ~100 people of this channel
00:01 < jast> unless ChanServ blabs
00:02 <+pdelvo> So: Always lock your computer!
00:02 < jast> well
00:03 <+clonejo> I thought about some meetup in a bar
00:03 <+pdelvo> not a bad idea :)
00:04 < jast> I don't appreciate pranks. if someone did that to me, I'd probably react accordingly.
00:05 <+clonejo> Yoshi2: are you in?
00:07 < Yoshi2> hm, I'm leaning towards no
00:07 < jast> I have few free evenings, so this will probably be a rather small meetup :)
00:07 <+clonejo> well, rather a small than none at all
00:07 < jast> just saying
00:07 <+clonejo> I can't let this opportunity go unused
00:07 < jast> go for it
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00:16 < AnotherOne> i have butthurt:(
00:17 < AnotherOne> fuck, there is no way to throw switch away
00:19 < AnotherOne> pdevlo, may i see your message handling code?
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00:25 < Not-002> [Miners] Wallbraker pushed 1 commit to wip-d2-port [+3/-0/±136] http://git.io/Ly_0KQ
00:25 < Not-002> [Miners] Wallbraker 59f5a80 - charge: Port to D2
00:31 < AnotherOne> who is Wallbraker?
00:31 <+Prf_Jakob> That would be me :)
00:35 <+pdelvo> AnotherOne if you write my name correctly I get notified :D Sorry. I dont think that my code helps you. My proxy is build to support a lot versions and translating between them
00:35 < AnotherOne> oops
00:35 < AnotherOne> sorry
00:36 <+pdelvo> np. just saying :D
00:36 < AnotherOne> mb you can give me a hint
00:36 <+pdelvo> If it hhelps you. It is not very performant the way I do, but it works :) https://github.com/pdelvo/Pdelvo.Minecraft/blob/master/Pdelvo.Minecraft.Protocol/PacketEndPoint.cs#L218
00:37 < AnotherOne> is Packet ancestor class?
00:38 <+pdelvo> all packets derive from Packet. each packet has the fields + reading/writing
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00:42 < AnotherOne> so problem is... i have classes for all messages. example is http://pastebin.com/nUTDxujw . All packets have these methods. i also have a function to check packet id and read corresponding packet. most of them are just skipped, but some are processed right in this function.
00:42 < AnotherOne> i want to separate processing
00:44 < AnotherOne> yes i can make array of pointers to functions, but...
00:44 < AnotherOne> it would be needles complication
00:44 < AnotherOne> needless*
00:45 <+pdelvo> I can tell you how to do it in .net, but I dont know what would be agood way in c++
00:45 < AnotherOne> tell me:)
00:50 <+pdelvo> I would seperate the logic from reading/writing the packets. I would make some kind of PacketImplementation<out T> base class (T : Packet) from which all classes derive which have the logic in it. I would use meta programming to get the types of these classes into a dictionary<Packet, Type> where I can look them up and create an instance of them. 
00:56 < AnotherOne> i have an idea...
00:57 < AnotherOne> my project is great
00:57 < AnotherOne> constant stepping off comfort zone
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01:36  * dx reads up
01:36  * mbaxter reads down
01:37 < dx> 19:15 < AnotherOne> i have butthurt:(
01:37 < dx> why.. why do you keep saying that
01:37 < dx> i'm starting to think you have no idea what that word means
01:37 < AnotherOne> because i keep having it
01:38 < Tux> Anyone here good with Craft.Net?
01:38 < dx> Tux: #craft.net
01:38 < dx> AnotherOne: how old are you?
01:38 < Tux> Thanks for the pointer dx
01:38 -!- Tux [~tux@tropicalwikis/Frozen-Wind] has left #mcdevs ["Leaving"]
01:38 < AnotherOne> 20
01:39 < dx> AnotherOne: i'd like to notify that you look like a 13 year old when you use that word
01:40 < AnotherOne> i will keep this fact in my mind, kind sir
01:41 < AnotherOne> http://pastebin.com/jnLMVTZH
01:46 < AnotherOne> is it ok?
01:46 < AnotherOne> to do like this
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02:08 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/kCUfjQ
02:08 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 3be8aef - Fix client bug related to connecting to online mode servers in offline mode
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02:40 <+md_5> http://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/1f3o5p/in_game_nes_emulator/
02:40 <+md_5> Finally posted to reddit
02:44 < AnotherOne> impressive
02:45 < mbaxter> only a year late
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03:05 < Seegee> Hello everyone
03:25 < Seegee> Is there any reason why SMProxy logs arn't showing me dropping items in creative mode...
03:25 < Seegee> I log in, move around a little, open creative inventory, and drop a few items
03:26 < Seegee> And SMProxy logs show everything except for me dropping the block (moving, looking, login, etc)
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04:31 < Seegee> dx: "[shnaw@irc.minecraft.org] has joined #mcdevs"
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05:21 < Not-002> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/HVknjg
05:21 < Not-002> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn b923f2b - Update Craft.Net submodule
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05:29 -!- Trueskill3806 is now known as DemoXin
05:30 < DemoXin> Many more people in here than I expected to find.
05:33 < DemoXin> Can anyone here offer me any good resources for protocol information?  I'm currently looking at mc.kev009.com and I feel like there's most likely a more up to date set of information.
05:34 < Seegee> I use http://www.wiki.vg/
05:35 < Seegee> I know thats pretty up to date
05:36 < DemoXin> thank you.
05:39 <+AndrewPH> md_5: huh, that's a really neat idea
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05:42 < Seegee> DemoXin: No problem.
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05:45 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±4] http://git.io/50-geQ
05:45 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn f478f03 - Added overloads to do DNS lookups and such for the user
05:46 < TkTech> Seegee: wiki.vg is mc.kev009.com.
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05:47 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/yCO0Gw
05:47 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn f480ba5 - Added support for dropping item stacks in creative mode
05:48 < Seegee> Derp xD
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06:57 < Seegee> Hey md_5 are you here?
06:58 < Seegee> +md_5 **
07:01 <+SpaceManiac> Hm
07:07 < Seegee> I kind of need some help... It seems that my client thinks that every incoming packet is a keep alive packet
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07:23 <+pdelvo> @DemoXin this is the current wiki. Do you have some questions? Is there something unclear or wrong?
07:29 < DemoXin> No, I'm just getting started with MCServer, and wanted to make sure I wasn't learning anything archaic.
07:39 < DemoXin> I am curious as to whether chunks are used anywhere in the protocol other than transmitting map data initially?
07:40 < DemoXin> It looks to me like once a chunk has been sent the first time, either during login/worldchange or streaming the world, everything else is done through absolute coordiantes.
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07:45 < DemoXin> This makes me believe that if saving a map is not a requirement and its size is static and known, with most clients only connecting to a given map one time, it would be worth it to write my own map storage and convert to the "chunk" system at runtime.  Thoughts?
07:57 -!- r04r|away is now known as r04r
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08:19 < DemoXin> Does anyone know the size in memory of a block in the java server?
08:22 -!- Paprikachu [~Paprikach@80.120.175.113] has joined #mcdevs
08:23 <+SpaceManiac> of one block?
08:24 <+md_5> DemoXin one byte......
08:24 <+SpaceManiac> DemoXin: anyways, imo, not worth the hassle of differing from the standard
08:24 < DemoXin> the block doesn't store its own location or anything?  Just a block id?
08:25 <+md_5> the block would be stored as an array element
08:27 <+pdelvo> I would say at least 24bit
08:28 <+pdelvo> 8 bit block id. 4 bit metadata 4bit block light 4bit sky light
08:28 < DemoXin> Basically, I'm aiming to write my own server that handles multiple instances of the same map(s), but won't need to save anything to them. And I need the server to handle several different environments for players to connect to.
08:29 < DemoXin> So given that I can impose my own limitations on map generation and even when/where/if players can place blocks, I'm trying to figure the best way to load/store maps in memory.
08:31 <+md_5> using the standard format is fine
08:31 < DemoXin> My assumption is that it would be faster to keep all blocks loaded for the duration of a game, and impose the old height limit of 127 blocks, than to unload chunks and save them to be loaded at a later point in that same session.
08:31 <+md_5> its a few bytes really
08:31 < DemoXin> Again, all that would be possible because of a known and static map size.
08:32 < shoghicp> Like MCPE
08:33 < shoghicp> DemoXin: load on demand, and create another copy of the chunk once a modification is done
08:33 < shoghicp> that way you can have multiple instances, but only with the minichunks modified
08:34 < DemoXin> Only 80% of my instances are going to allow blocks to be removed or placed at all, the other 20% is what's presenting a problem.
08:34 < shoghicp> why?
08:34 < DemoXin> 20% will be allowed to edit blocks*
08:34 < DemoXin> 80% will have completely static maps.
08:34 < DemoXin> static, pregenerated, unchangable.
08:35 < shoghicp> that 20% will be a copy of a map in the 80% part?
08:36 < DemoXin> no, the 20% of games that allow changes to be made to the map will be traditional SMP, but with a map that has a known size (1000x1000ish), with a map generated when the game starts, and thrown away 30 minutes later when the game ends.
08:36 < shoghicp> anyways, you can load minichunks on demand, and disallow changes
08:36 < shoghicp> I mean
08:37 < shoghicp> save it on disk, and load the needed chunks
08:37 < DemoXin> So I can create my map format where persistence isn't a concern at all.
08:37 < shoghicp> First, you can get rid of empty chunks
08:38 < shoghicp> instead of 4096 blocks, just a boolean
08:38 < DemoXin> chunks with a height of127 are 32000 blocks
08:39 < DemoXin> 32kB per chunk of just block IDs, which is what I assume the server sends when a client needs a chunk
08:39 < shoghicp> an uncompressed 1024*128*1024 map (only blocks + metadata) needs 192MB
08:39 < shoghicp> IDs + metadata
08:40 <+pdelvo> +skylight+blocklight
08:40 < shoghicp> and in PC, light
08:40 < DemoXin> block IDs are 1 byte, and how long is metadata?
08:40 < shoghicp> 2.5 bytes per block
08:40 < shoghicp> uch
08:40 < shoghicp> half a byte
08:40 <+pdelvo> 0.5
08:41 < shoghicp> total, 2.5 bytes
08:41 <+pdelvo> blocklight is 0.5 and skylight is 0.5 which makes the lightning 1 byte per  block
08:41 < DemoXin> so 3 bytes per block in memory.
08:41 <+pdelvo> 2.5
08:41 < shoghicp> 2.5
08:42 < DemoXin> I want to figure high as well, as I'm planning on implementing block damage.
08:42 < DemoXin> So 4 bytes per block.
08:42 < shoghicp> Use tile entities for that
08:43 < shoghicp> so only blocks that have damage have that data
08:44 < DemoXin> I could just run a list with the stored coords of damagable blocks too...
08:44 < shoghicp> sure
08:44 < DemoXin> I'm not retrofitting, I'm writing my own core
08:44 < DemoXin> So I can take some liberties as long as I have a way of converting that data to the vanilla client.
08:46 < DemoXin> The map part is the bit that's throwing me for a loop.  I've never engineered my own map file format, but the traditional structure is far too much for my needs, and slimming it down would offer me some valuable performance.
08:46 < DemoXin> But if a block doesn't need to know it's own location, that makes things tons easier.
08:46 < DemoXin> that halfs the memory usage I had in mind.
08:46 < DemoXin> halves*
08:49 < DemoXin> How is my math wrong?
08:49 < shoghicp> I designed a new map format, because the Minecraft PE format used too munch memory
08:49 <+AndrewPH> imo make a map format in json
08:49 < shoghicp> It is based on Anvil, but adapted to the pocket format
08:49 < shoghicp> AndrewPH: o.O
08:50 <+AndrewPH> also do it in php and write a php interpreter in perl
08:50 < DemoXin> I'm coming up with 381MB for a 1024x1024x127 map...
08:50 < shoghicp> DemoXin: clean empty chunks and use gzip
08:50 < SinZ> AndrewPH: only way to go
08:51 < DemoXin> no chunks would be empty though, they'd all be pregenerated.
08:51 < shoghicp> Everything will be filled up to 128?
08:52 < DemoXin> no, but I'm talking about my storage in memory, not what gets sent over the network
08:52 < shoghicp> But you can clean that part ;)
08:53 < shoghicp> You can replace entire minichunks of AIR with a boolean
08:53 < DemoXin> I.E. instead of storing a struct, I store a 0 in that element of the array?
08:53 < DemoXin> and only allocate structs for blocks that are actual blocks...
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08:54 < shoghicp> minichunk = 16x16x16 blocks
08:55 < shoghicp> so you have 8 minichunks in a chunk
08:55 < shoghicp> (128 Y max)
08:56 -!- r04r|away is now known as r04r
08:57 < DemoXin> Maybe I'm shooting myself in the foot with a game type that allows block changes... with all the other types I have in mind, I'll be able to make a converter that takes my maps from a creative vanilla server and parse them into my own format where I remove any excess blocks (I.E. has a block on all 6 sides)...
08:58 < DemoXin> It's the same game type that's going to present the challenge of writing my own terrain generator.
08:58 < DemoXin> And also eat the most bandwidth...
08:58 < shoghicp> That remembers me that I need a true terrain generator
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09:18 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r1992 3 files : Made a few MapGen classes internal
09:22 -!- luntik13 [~Sashka@m83-176-140-154.cust.tele2.lv] has joined #mcdevs
09:22 < luntik13> hi
09:23 < luntik13> is pbunny still banned?
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09:31 < SinZ> yup
09:32 <+AndrewPH> Let's all walk around in our banana shoes
09:32 < luntik13> SinZ: but why? he used to help people here
09:32 < SinZ> he never helped anyone ever
09:33 < SinZ> only cause trouble
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09:33 < luntik13> i asked him, he just told me channel is run by weird ops
09:33 < luntik13> SinZ: wrong
09:34 < SinZ> having a lulzsec.com hostname, he wasn't needed in the community
09:34 < luntik13> so it's because of the host?
09:34 < luntik13> lolomg
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09:37 < AlphaModder> is there some packet for blocking? i need to make a HumanEntity block
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09:42 < DemoXin> This is a substantially less involved question.  I know it's possible to make falling sand look like any block.  Can that be done in the vanilla client with making a beacon look like a chest?
09:43 < shoghicp> DemoXin: place a beacon under the chest
09:43 < shoghicp> the cehst is transparent
09:43 < shoghicp> chest*
09:44 < DemoXin> simple enough
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09:44 < shoghicp> (+ iron blocks ;) )
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09:45 < DemoXin> Does the client detect if the beacon is powered?  I assumed that was server-side.
09:46 < shoghicp> that is server side, right
09:46 < shoghicp> (a tile entity event, I think)
09:46 < DemoXin> I'll have to to figure that out.
09:47 < DemoXin> I actually like your minichunk concept... Since I'm building a map compiler, I actually can figure those chunks out at compile time to increase load speeds too...
09:48 < DemoXin> And I'm assuming they'll improve the gzip compression levels even on occupied chunks if all the blocks in that minichunk are the same.
09:48 < shoghicp> right
09:48 < shoghicp> I've compressed a 23MB map in 40KB
09:49 < AlphaModder> anyone know if theres a blocking packet?
09:49 < shoghicp> so it works pretty good ;)
09:49 < dx> good morning mcdonalds developers
09:49 < dx> heh one of the pbunny clones is back i see
09:50 < shoghicp> pbunny clones?
09:50 < dx> 04:21 < luntik13> is pbunny still banned?
09:50 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r1993 5 files : Fixed scrolling in RealisticMapGenGui, and moved some more shared code (removing margin/padding/border, and automatically resizing) from implementations to MapGeneratorGui base class.
09:50 < dx> totally not obvious
09:51 < SinZ> dx: inorite, only himself would question the ban
09:51 < shoghicp> xD
09:52 < dx> i mean it could be an irl friend (implying irl friends) but functionally it still works as a pbunny clone
09:53 < AlphaModder> no one knows? :(
09:55 < dx> blocking packet? i think most networking implementations are synchronous and blocking but you're free to use async
09:55  * dx totally interpreted that question wrong
09:56  * DemoXin wishes he could answer that question, but doesn't know.
09:56 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r1994 4 files : Added stub FloatingIslandMapGen classes.
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09:57 < dx> AlphaModder: you mean blocking with a sword? since you do it with right click it's most likely "use entity" without target entity, but that's just a wild guess, just use a proxy and find out yourself
09:58 < AlphaModder> yes. hmmm... i think ill just open up the minecraft source and find out lol.
09:58 < dx> what source there's no source
09:58 < dx> nobody heard about source here
09:59 < dx> use a proxy like a man
09:59 < SinZ> ^
09:59 < dx> (women should use proxies too, and any gender in the middle too)
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10:06 < dx> by the way, is libpcap support in a proxy like mc3p a terrible idea? i mean, instead of acting like a proxy, just listen everything in the tcp connection to 25565 and parse packets there
10:07 < dx> sounds like it would be fun to implement but the idea can't be new so you guys must have noticed downsides (either that or nobody cared :D)
10:09 < AlphaModder> when an item is right clicked: Packet15Place(-1, -1, -1, 255, currentItem, 0.0F, 0.0F, 0.0F));
10:09 < AlphaModder> o.o
10:09 < dx> damn that's a weird proxy dude
10:10 < AlphaModder> ...lol
10:10 -!- r04r|away is now known as r04r
10:10 < dx> anyway yes that one is sent if the item you're holding is a block
10:11 < dx> or is it if you're right clicking a block...? either way it's not for swords
10:11 < AlphaModder> according to this, its under sendUseItem 
10:12 < dx> oh wait you said item
10:12 < dx> and i'm expecting this protocol to make sense
10:12 < AlphaModder> lol
10:12 < dx> NEVERMIND
10:12 < AlphaModder> minecraft protocol != logic
10:15 < dx> oh neat the minecraft client works normally now. some java update broke the rendering and i had to do weird things to run it.
10:16 < dx> java.io.FileNotFoundException: http://assets.minecraft.net/1_6_has_been_released.flag
10:16 < dx> pro
10:19 <+md_5> blocking is client side iirc
10:19 < TobiX> dx: I haven't looked at the Minecraft protocol recently, but isn't using libpcap quite impossible when encryption is active?
10:23 < dx> TobiX: hmmm right, i'm dumb. i guess it could be possible to do it with offline servers, but having to set a server to offline to be able to sniff sucks
10:27 < DemoXin> Is Bukkit 100% vanilla compliant for 1.5.2?
10:28 <+pdelvo> the protocol?
10:28 < DemoXin> yeah
10:28 <+pdelvo> it is, as far you are not using any plugin which changes it
10:28 < DemoXin> okay.
10:28 < DemoXin> thank you
10:30 < SinZ> bukkit generally forbids changing the protocol anyway
10:30 < SinZ> they force the use of Packet250PluginChannels
10:31 <+pdelvo> http://dev.bukkit.org/server-mods/protocollib/
10:31 < DemoXin> I'm wanting to adhere to the vanilla client's capabilities, so I'm okay with that.
10:32 < DemoXin> All of my scripting is going to be server-side.
10:36 <+SpaceManiac> dx: if that fails to dl (e.g. minecraft.net is filtered) it shows a message saying a 1.6 prerelease is out
10:36 <+SpaceManiac> or, I should say, succeeds in downloading but does not return the actual file
10:38 < dx> SpaceManiac: yeah i realized that much :P. but i believe they used a different method before...
10:38 < dx> still using the old launcher here
10:39 < SinZ> its prob to tell people with the old launcher to get the new launcher
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10:44 < nastyCreeper> hi
10:52 <+SpaceManiac> hi
10:54 < dx> SinZ: so this launcher can autoupdate too? :D
10:54 < dx> i should check the LAUNCHER SOURCE CODE
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10:55 < SinZ> dx: new launcher self-updates
10:55 < SinZ> old launcher doesn't
10:57 < dx> SinZ: yeah i know
10:58 < dx> SinZ: but since it did this check during login, i sort of wished it would be the launcher doing it instead of the client itself
10:58 < SinZ> well, the new launcher doesn't need to check
10:58 < SinZ> and the old launcher cant check
10:58 < dx> yeah
10:58 < dx> also this repo is a lie https://github.com/Mojang/LegacyLauncher/tree/master/src/main/java/net/minecraft/launchwrapper
10:58 < dx> it's just the wrapper
10:59 < dx> ...well calling it a lie might be too harsh, let's say "partial truth"
10:59 <+md_5> http://www.spigotmc.org/threads/please-allow-me-to-introduce-myself.2370/
10:59 <+md_5> remember this guy
11:00 < SinZ> I don't
11:01 <+SpaceManiac> dx: wait, so what is it even? the web applet part?
11:01 <+md_5> its a bytecode transformer
11:01 <+md_5> to make old MC versions respect working directory and icon
11:02 <+SpaceManiac> How/when is it actually used?
11:02 < SinZ> new launcher, not 1.6
11:03 <+SpaceManiac> ah
11:04 < dx> repo called LegacyLauncher, actually contains a minimal piece of code used by the new launcher to launch legacy versions
11:05 < dx> totally what everyone expected
11:05 <+SpaceManiac> why even bother publicizing it?
11:05 < nastyCreeper> what is the point of hiding the source?
11:06 < nastyCreeper> information must be free
11:06 < dx> being on github has the same value as being deobfuscated in the jar, at least until they put proper license texts
11:07 < dx> SpaceManiac: maybe it's something the people who make launchers for forge mods need?
11:07 <+SpaceManiac> who knows
11:08 < dx> ¯\(°_o)/¯ 
11:08 < dx> i'll submit an issue asking for licensing information just to be annoying
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11:15 < AnotherOne> lol
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11:17 < AnotherOne> in russia they say "he has an awl in his butt" about people who do something just to be annoying
11:19 < dx> it's a valid legal issue though
11:19 < dx> it's just one i don't personally care about
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11:50 < r04r> What was the protocol thing called again which clients use to query the motd and players online and all that?
11:50 < r04r> Like for the server list
11:50 <+md_5> it was packet 0xFE
11:51 < r04r> Thanks!
11:51 < r04r> I made a simple proxy for servers with extremely low activity hosted on amazon EC2, turns the server off after 1 hour, and turns it back on when someone tries to connect
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12:25 < dx> r04r: sounds neat!
12:25 < dx> r04r: do you do anything to let them connect quickly instead of waiting 30 seconds for the server to boot?
12:26 < dx> actually... you could just send SIGSTOP if resource usage is the issue
12:27 <+pdelvo> you could get issues with "took too long to login"
12:28 <+pdelvo> then you have to spawn players somewhere until the server booted up
12:29 < dx> well SIGSTOP just blocks the whole process from using any cpu time
12:29 < dx> making it return after that is instant, the server should only notice some "lag" (few hours long lag spike :D)
12:31 < dx> but i don't know if EC2 charges based on cpu time or if it's memory usage too
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12:33 < dx> hah, this thing exists: http://cryopid.berlios.de/
12:34 <+pdelvo> it does not support rebounding tcp sockets yet :(
12:34 < r04r> dx: None of that, it just kicks them telling them to reconnect after a minute. There is an added wait time for the virtual machine to be allocated and to boot. After everything is working smoothly I might add a simple server with a lounge, but not too sure how feasable that is.
12:34 < dx> it doesn't? bah. they advertise it as useful for irssi
12:35 <+pdelvo> "In future versions, listening sockets will be rebound, and UDP and UNIX sockets will be reconnected."
12:35 <+pdelvo> "In future version" - "Never"
12:35 < r04r> EC2 charges for VM uptime, not cpu cycles
12:35 < dx> pdelvo: pretty much
12:35 < dx> r04r: oh i see
12:36 -!- Paprikachu [~Paprikach@80.120.175.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:36 < dx> (you can clearly see i only cared about their free plan)
12:38 < dx> https://lists.berlios.de/pipermail/cryopid-devel/2013-May/000323.html
12:38 < dx> this is all the activity in their mailing list in the last 12 months or so
12:39 < dx> it's user mode though, it should still work
12:39 < Grum> dx: seriously? :/
12:40 < dx> Grum: what?
12:40 < Grum> repo-issue
12:40 < dx> Grum: i say a lot of stupid things regularly, you need to point out which one you consider questionable
12:41 < dx> Grum: oh the license of that? yes, why not? does it bother you?
12:41 < Grum> O.o
12:41 < Grum> does it bother you? :D
12:41 < dx> yep
12:41 < Grum> making issues out of thin air!
12:41 < dx> well, people might want to use that code in GPL licensed projects
12:42 < Grum> so? :)
12:42 < dx> people can also get *those* projects in legal trouble for including this code with dubious license
12:42 < Grum> so?
12:42 < dx> gotcha, you don't care
12:42 < dx> copy-pasting a MIT license takes zero effort though
12:43 < Grum> \o/
12:43 < Grum> its not zero, its slightly more
12:43 < Grum> enough to not care
12:43 < dx> yes, i have noticed that your threshold of effort required to stop caring is extremely low
12:43 < Grum> no, we have other stuff to do we have to care for because of time constraints :)
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12:44 <+pdelvo> I could do a pull request so you just need to press a green button :)
12:45 < dx> pdelvo: still too much effort, sorry
12:46 < Grum> i'd press the red button
12:46 < Grum> red is much nicer
12:49 < dx> i just noticed i had a tab open with "meme generator" that someone posted here yesterday
12:49 < dx> i think it's been in a "loading" state since yesterday too
12:49 <+pdelvo> http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=9644
12:53 < dx> pdelvo: i was going to say "old" but instead i just did it all, again.
12:54 <+pdelvo> This is what happes if you press red buttons: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=316AzLYfAzw
13:02 < dx> pdelvo: oh neat, sequel video, and it's even better than the original
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13:52 < AnotherOne> is it ok to use SDL for my client?
13:53 < AnotherOne> or are there any alternatives?
13:53 < AnotherOne> cross-platform alternatives
13:53 < nastyCreeper> everything but directx is okay
13:53 < nastyCreeper> i would use pure opengl
13:54 < nastyCreeper> though sdl is probably faster
13:54 < nastyCreeper> to develop
13:55 < TobiX> nastyCreeper: Well, there is enough stuff that's not covered in OpenGL, which makes using SDL worthwhile (like, window setup, input, etc.)
13:55 < AnotherOne> reinventing a wheel is not nice:)
13:56 < AnotherOne> especially if you reinvent a square wheel
13:57 < TobiX> AnotherOne: I would suggest going straight for SDL2, even if it isn't packaged in most Linux distros yet
13:57 <+Prf_Jakob> I would suggest going for SDL1, 2 doesn't give you anything more really if all you want is a window and GL context.
13:58 < AnotherOne> waht is the difference?
13:59 < TobiX> And if you are doing commercial stuff, going for SDL2 gives you less licence headaces (zlib vs. LGPL)
13:59 < TobiX> AnotherOne: Mostly support for newer platforms (AFAIK)
14:01 < AnotherOne> what do you think about mutexes?
14:01 < AnotherOne> i'm afraid of them
14:02 <+Prf_Jakob> I would recommend only doing single threaded to begin with, so no mutexes.
14:03 < AnotherOne> heh
14:03 < TobiX> The "problem" of going with SDL1.2 now is: SDL2 made changes that are not backward compatible, so if you decide somewhere down the line to port to SDL2, this will be more effort then just switching libraries...
14:03 < TobiX> OTOH, SDL1.2 is a very stable codebase, which will probably stay around for quite some time
14:03 <+Prf_Jakob> of course SDL2 isn't stable so you have to put in effort to keep it up to date.
14:04 <+Prf_Jakob> and that
14:04 < AnotherOne> how should i make single-threaded network i/o?
14:04 <+Prf_Jakob> polling
14:04 < jast> what language are you working in ?
14:04 < AnotherOne> C++
14:04 < jast> s/ \?/?/
14:05 < jast> right... if you don't want to work with thousands of clients, one of the existing I/O and event frameworks will probably work for you
14:06 < AnotherOne> so let's imagine...
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14:07 < AnotherOne> what if my program freezes during reading from socket?
14:07 <+Prf_Jakob> if you are using non-blocking sockets they wont
14:08 < AnotherOne> non-blocking sockets...
14:08 < AnotherOne> wrapped threads?
14:08 < jast> no
14:08 < AnotherOne> what then?
14:08 <+Prf_Jakob> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asynchronous_I/O
14:09 < jast> async is actually another thing
14:09 <+Prf_Jakob> yes
14:09 < jast> but basically FDs can be configured to return 'try again later' instead of blocking
14:09 < jast> on operations on them
14:09 < jast> and then you have a mechanism where you can either query or get notified about which sockets are ready
14:10 <+Prf_Jakob> http://www.kegel.com/dkftpbench/nonblocking.html
14:10 < jast> any decent I/O framework takes care of that for you
14:14 < dx> non-blocking sockets are bad :(
14:17 < jast> uh
14:17 < dx> select()/poll() and blocking is the way to go, since unless you're wrapping the socket with something weird, checking if you can read a socket before you read it won't block
14:17 < jast> are you on drugs or something?
14:17 < dx> non-blocking is okay if you know what you're doing
14:17 < dx> most beginners don't
14:17 < AnotherOne> i will try threaded version
14:18 < jast> blocking is just as error-prone
14:18 < AnotherOne> mutexes seem more ok than boost::asio
14:18 < dx> o_o
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14:30 < dav1d> wth
14:30 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r1995 2 files : AddWorldPopup now allows canceling generation tasks in progress, if IMapGeneratorState supports cancelation.
14:32 < jast> well anyway, I suppose if you prefer that bugs make everything freeze, blocking I/O in a single thread is a great choice
14:32 < barneygale> jast: he mentioned select(), which returns which fds/sockets are ready to read/write
14:32 < jast> I happen to be aware of networking basics
14:33 < barneygale> So in what circumstances will that freeze?
14:33 < jast> if you accidentally try to read more than is available
14:33 < barneygale> It's the basis of all sorts of stuff. It's the default reactor twisted chooses if the others don't work.
14:33 < dav1d> AnotherOne: so you're making a client?
14:33 < AnotherOne> yes 
14:33 < dav1d> do you have any opengl experience?
14:33 < AnotherOne> nope
14:34 < jast> for instance, TCP is stream-based and there tend to be messages that are still incomplete after just one read
14:34 < dav1d> good luck then
14:34 < AnotherOne> thank you
14:34 < SinZ> Luck is required
14:34 < dav1d> opengl isn't something you learn within one day
14:34 < AnotherOne> this project is for learning:)
14:34 < AnotherOne> i'm not in haste
14:34 < jast> so suppose you forget to create a buffer and go back into your event loop... with blocking I/O, all I/O stops until the next part of the message is received. with non-blocking I/O, that one connection will be in an consistent state but everything else will still work
14:35 < barneygale> ofc
14:35 < barneygale> but who is suggesting the former?
14:35 < jast> dx is
14:35 < jast> "non-blockiong sockets are bad [, durrrr]"
14:36 < dx> i did not say the durr part but i thought it
14:36 < jast> yeah, I'm just that good at mind-reading
14:38 < dx> jast: also if select() says the socket can be read, recv() will return at least one byte, always, and never block
14:38 < jast> yeah, until you accidentally read twice
14:38 < jast> of course than never happens in example code, which is too simple for stuff like that
14:38 < dx> ...why blame non-blocking sockets for that
14:39 < dx> err *blocking
14:39 < jast> I'm not talking about blame
14:39 < dx> you're supposed to read right away after getting the select() return value
14:39 < jast> but considering that mistakes are pretty much unavoidable, using something that will make their impact a thousand times worse is kind of stupid
14:40 < dx> why would anyone read the socket randomly in the middle of the code, outside of the socket event loop? that's poor design
14:40 < jast> depends on how serious you are about zero-copy semantics
14:41 < dx> the fact that people can write terrible code with blocking sockets doesn't make them bad
14:41 < AnotherOne> as if copying is bad
14:41 < barneygale> if you're using blocking sockets with select() you've usually made your own event loop
14:41 < dav1d> why would you use select/poll/kqueue etc. directly?
14:41 < jast> what's much more interesting, btw, is blocking _writes_
14:41 < barneygale> and then the semantics are pretty similar
14:41 < dav1d> there are great libraries for that
14:41 < jast> dav1d: I'd just use libev, naturally
14:41 < dx> dav1d: sure, you can use them. select/poll are simple enough to use them directly if you want to avoid dependencies though
14:42 < dav1d> yeah
14:42 < jast> but then again I didn't start this particular discussion
14:42 < dav1d> libev(ent)
14:43 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r1996 2 files : Removed cancelation code from FlatMapGen (it's so quick, cancelation is useless). Added progress reporting and cancelation support to RealisticMapGen.
14:43 < jast> yeah, avoiding dependencies so that you can re-invent the wheel for some of the most error-prone, tedious and portability-relevant things in the bowels of any event-heavy system sounds awesome
14:43 < dav1d> and I just figured out that I could make my life a lot easier within brala
14:44 < jast> yay!
14:44 < dav1d> get rid of tons of synchronized{} blocks
14:44 < dav1d> well maybe 3
14:44 < dav1d> still something :P
14:44 < jast> better a few than none :)
14:45 < dx> jast: i really don't see how blocking sockets are error prone if you follow the standard select() pattern
14:45 < dx> and portability, well, yeah, windows has their own variant of sockets as usual, but every other unix supports it perfectly
14:46 < dx> i usually don't care about windows but if i did i wouldn't mind adding a dependency
14:46 < jast> you mean like libev, which already does all of this for you?
14:47 <+Fador> libevent \o/
14:47 < dav1d> *does that better
14:47 < jast> yeah, that too
14:47 < dx> yes, but as i said, i usually don't care
14:47 < dav1d> libev > libevent
14:47 < dx> lol naming.
14:47 < jast> yeah, and clearly the massive overhead of select/poll is irrelevant, too
14:47 < dx> "overhead"?
14:47 < jast> yes
14:47 < dx> "massive"?
14:47 < dx> they are motherfucking system calls
14:47 < dav1d> there are more lightweight soloutions
14:47 < TobiX> dx: Better then liboobs (haha m( )
14:48 < jast> oh, right, dx doesn't actually understand the stuff he uses
14:48 < jast> good to know
14:48 < dx> jast: sorry?
14:49 < jast> why do you think people (in *bsd, linux and solaris) came up with replacements for select and poll?
14:49 < jast> can't find a decent source at the moment, so here's the gist
14:49 < dx> poll is actually a fairly recent replacement for select, and i like it
14:49 < jast> with select and poll, you maintain the fdset (or the poll structure) within your program
14:50 < jast> for each call to select() and poll(), the data structure is in userspace, and the kernel has to do a costly copy between kernelspace and userspace
14:50 < jast> not to mention that a crapload of obvious optimizations are impossible that you could do if the structures were maintained by the kernel
14:50 < jast> (which they are for kqueue, epoll, /dev/poll and friends)
14:52 < dx> so basically the point of using wrapper libraries is just using platform specific interfaces that are slightly more efficient?
14:52 < jast> not slightly
14:52 < jast> _extremely_
14:52 < dx> er.. yeah i guess it's okay if you scale to thousands of connections. i don't
14:53 < TobiX> Well, if you use the abstraction libraries, you get scalability for free...
14:54 < dav1d> also a nicer api
14:55 < jast> the API is much nicer, yes
14:55 < jast> you don't have to muck with pollfd structs
14:56 < dx> i like the api ._.
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14:56 < jast> yeah, and you like blocking sockets
14:56 < dx> yes..
14:56 < jast> a certain picture emerges
14:57 < dx> lol i'm not sure if i want to know what picture that is
14:57 < jast> you know, the "I do the exact opposite of what every sane person does" kind of picture
14:57 < Seegee> Hey dx, I saw the guy with the hostname of minecraft.org xD
14:57 < dx> lel
14:59 < dx> jast: i write shit that handles 5 connections at most, i enjoy writing the event loop myself, i like having simple code with no dependencies, if you're going to say i'm insane for having these preferences feel free to do so, i just don't care
14:59 < nastyCreeper> Seegee: minecraft.org != minecraft.net
14:59 < jast> I don't care what preferences you have
15:00 < jast> but spouting something like "non-blocking sockets are bad" without any context is a bit different from that
15:00 < dx> i did say that non-blocking sockets are good if you know what you're doing
15:00 < dx> but you suggested it to the channel newbie
15:00 < jast> I did
15:00 < jast> I don't think the potential for errors is higher with non-blocking sockets than with blocking ones
15:01 < jast> if you have an event loop anyway
15:01 < dav1d> Let's use Java
15:01 < dx> yes, that's a rather big "if"
15:01 < jast> (I actually recommended using a ready-made framework, by the way)
15:01 < dx> yeah
15:01 < dx> sorry for not considering that
15:02 < nastyCreeper> dav1d: how willl java help anything?
15:02 < dav1d> Java, the language gods use
15:02 < nastyCreeper> !ops dav1d troll
15:02 < dx> wasn't nastyCreeper banned before
15:02 < nastyCreeper> dx: by mistake
15:03 < dav1d> yeah sadimusi unbanned pbunny again, no idea why
15:03 < dx> and right after that you told #minecraft that sadimusi was asking for your personal information or some shit
15:03 < dx> so classy
15:03 < dav1d> (and getting banned there, too)
15:03 < dx> almost as classy as dx saying all non-blocking sockets are evil and ignoring the fact that they suggested using a framework for it
15:04 < nastyCreeper> dav1d: i am not pbunny, and pbunny is still banned
15:04 < dav1d> weren't we over that?
15:04 < nastyCreeper> we were. were you?
15:05 < nastyCreeper> you may also be pbunny yourself
15:05 < dx> HEY GUYS, RANDOM #mcdevs POLL, what terminal emulators do you use?
15:05 < TobiX> dx: rxvt-unicode
15:05 < dav1d> dx: ^
15:05 < dx> TobiX: i'd love to use urxvt but had problems with a few characters, can you render this? "ಠ_ಠ" 
15:06 < dav1d> no
15:06 < dav1d> well []_[]
15:06 < dx> yeah it's supposed to be a face
15:06 < TobiX> dx: Considering st...
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15:06 < dav1d> TobiX: lol
15:06 < dav1d> same here
15:06 < dx> st?
15:06 < TobiX> dx: I don't know why, but those are just blocks...
15:06 < dav1d> but st can't handle wide characters at all
15:06 < TobiX> dx: From suckless-tools
15:07 < dx> hah suckless, sounds fun
15:07 < TobiX> dav1d: Seriously? :(
15:07 < dx> sucks that suckless means featureless
15:07 < dav1d> TobiX: yes
15:07 < dx> yeah wide chars are very important too
15:07 < dav1d> there was a discussion on the ng on how to implement them in a sane way, but Xlib
15:07 -!- nastyCreeper [~asd@static-71-174-73-11.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC]
15:07 < dav1d> thank god
15:08 < dav1d> I recommended pango, but pango is fat
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15:08 < TobiX> CGI:IRC? Someone uses that crap?
15:08 < dav1d> TobiX: pbunny does
15:08 < dx> TobiX: as far as i know almost every web client is crap
15:08 < jast> dav1d: http://gg.jk.gs/mcdevs.jpg
15:09 < dav1d> jast: your domain?
15:09 < jast> yeah
15:09 < dav1d> lol
15:09 < dx> nice
15:09 < AnotherOne> hahahahaha
15:09 < AnotherOne> true, true
15:09 < dx> ITC people with cool domains (some of them squatted, not all of them)
15:09 < dx> wiki.vg is really cool too
15:10 <+Fador> needs more hentai
15:10 < dx> Fador: ...that sounded really random until i whois'd
15:11 <+Fador> ;D
15:11 < jast> I have the best IRC hostname
15:12 < AnotherOne> how to make it?
15:12 < dx> AnotherOne: you have to own it
15:12 < AnotherOne> own server?
15:12 < jast> step 1: register domain. step 2: have decent ISP. step 3: ??? step 4: profit!
15:12 < dx> just the domain, but a server is useful too
15:12 < jast> well, you're going to need an RDNS entry you can control
15:12 < dx> decent ISP? you mean they let you change the rdns?
15:13 < jast> a few do
15:13 < dx> i'm jealous.
15:13 < jast> it's not very common
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15:13 < jast> much more common for VPS and dedicated server hosting
15:13 < TobiX> dx: Somehow, nothing on my system renders that smily correctly...
15:13 < jast> (which is how I come by my RDNS)
15:13 < dx> yeah, of course
15:13 < dx> TobiX: oh, then the urxvt test is pointless :D
15:14 <+ammar2> I should have made my dns more creative
15:14 < dx> TobiX: http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/0ca0/index.htm
15:14 < jast> my RDNS used to be we.have.lowlatency.de
15:14 < jast> but that was a lie, reallyy
15:15 < dx> time=323 ms
15:15 < dx> i expected something worse
15:15 <+ammar2> jast: do you not consider my marriage proposal to be urgent
15:15 < jast> ammar2: nope
15:15 <+ammar2> :(
15:15 < dx> wot
15:15 < dav1d> dx: my chromium can't handle that character either
15:16 < jast> I love it when people refer to that and everyone else gets confused
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15:16 < TobiX> dx: http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/0ca0/fontsupport.htm - 5 fonts (one fallback), really? :(
15:16 < dx> dav1d TobiX: yeah it's a font issue then, need kannada support. the problem is that urxvt doesn't support it even with the right fonts
15:17 < dx> TobiX: this looks fallback too http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/font/lastresort/index.htm
15:18 < dx> "kannada" isn't a very popular language. that's what they get for typosquatting the cadadians
15:18 < TobiX> Oh, right, 2 fallback... I could install Arial...
15:18 < dx> http://kn.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%B2%B5%E0%B2%BF%E0%B2%95%E0%B2%BF%E0%B2%AA%E0%B3%80%E0%B2%A1%E0%B2%BF%E0%B2%AF:Kannada_Support#GNU.2FLinux_and_FreeBSD
15:18 < jast> ultimate troll: include every single unicode glyph in Comics Sans MS
15:19 < jast> -s
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15:19 < dx> even better: process the shapes of arial unicode MS (a font that has massive unicode support) to make them look like comic sans
15:21 < TobiX> dx: Okay, installing unifont gives me support in gvim at least...
15:21 < dx> TobiX: you usually have to restart apps after using fc-cache -vf
15:22 < dx> kinda annoying but oh well
15:22 < TobiX> dx: Still not in rxvt-unicode :(
15:22 < dx> TobiX: :(
15:24 < dx> but yeah, missing a few unicode blocks from urxvt (there are others, this is just the most commonly used) is annoying. i might just debug the issue myself some day, because i really really want to use urxvtperl scripting
15:24 < dx> VTE is still the "best" meanwhile, but it's slow too
15:27 < dx> oh, the reason i started this conversation is because i'd love to have something like /ignore that doesn't hide the messages, but sets foreground and background to black
15:27 < dav1d> ?
15:27 < dav1d> this should work with any terminal?
15:28 < dav1d> well if it supports colors of course...
15:28 < dx> it does! but to show it you usually have to select the text... and VTE shows selected text with inverted foreground/background
15:28 < dx> guess what happens if you invert black/black
15:28 < dav1d> lol
15:29 < dav1d> well in urxvt you can change the selection color
15:29 < dx> yeah, the default urxvt settings get it right
15:30 < dx> also, does it look like i'm nitpicking too much? :D i just use irc too much time every day so naturally i care a lot
15:30 < dav1d> h?
15:30 < dav1d> *mh?
15:30 < jast> why bother changing the colours at all if you're not ignoring someone for real
15:31 < jast> might as well do the ignoring in your head :)
15:31 < dav1d> then my head runs out of memory too fast
15:31 <+ammar2> jast: the plethora of pointless trivia is a very nice touch, 10/10
15:31 < dx> jast: it's what i do, but it's just easier if the message isn't visible
15:32 < jast> I kind of expect that if my client had that feature, I'd be tempted to highlight every line by that person
15:32 < jast> so it's actually more work
15:32 < jast> ammar2: just to be clear... what are we talking about?
15:32 < dx> jast: i was thinking he talked about your marriage or something
15:32 <+ammar2> jast: the music page
15:33 < jast> right
15:33 < jast> sorry, I don't remember every piece of wording I ever put somewhere :)
15:34 < dx> jast: you've seen pbunny right?
15:35 < jast> seen as in, observed talking in this channel? yes
15:35 < dx> ye
15:35 < jast> pbunny taught me everything I know about computers
15:36 < dx> jast: what he said in this channel was usually pointless, but also influenced the conversation in some way. i can't use /ignore. however if it interferes with a serious conversation, i'd rather not see it, unless someone replies to it
15:36 < dx> the message is still there, i just won't read it unless it's relevant
15:39 < dx> putting it differently, it's forcing you to "think before you read" (for something you don't need to read)
15:40 < AnotherOne> y u no like pbunny?:)
15:40 < dav1d> ignorant idiot
15:40 < dx> nah i love him
15:40 < dav1d> beeing an idiot is ok, but combined with ignorance...
15:40 < dx> it's just too fun to read his stuff and i hate having fun
15:41 <+ammar2> for better or for worse he did kinda provoke quite a bit of activity here
15:41 < dx> ammar2: indeed
15:41 < dx> dav1d: ignorance + complete denial of ignorance. perfect combination
15:41 < dav1d> meh
15:42 < dx> also has anyone seen TkTech or sadimusi recently? we need more ops
15:42 < TkTech> Hm?
15:42 < nastyCreeper> i can be a nice op
15:42 < dx> yay TkTech
15:43 < dx> TkTech: i just checked the chanserv access list the other day, it's just you two guys and a lot of people who haven't been in this channel for a while
15:43 < dx> TkTech: would be nice to promote voiced people to op, since it's just channel moderation and nothing else, right?
15:44 < dx> (not saying all of them)
15:44 < dav1d> do we need more ops?
15:44 < dx> TkTech: also nastyCreeper is unbanned. just stating a fact and not saying anything about it.
15:45 < dx> dav1d: i think every channel needs to have at least one active op at any time, so having more helps cover more time
15:45 < dav1d> dx: Wallbraker = Prf_Jak_b
15:45 < dx> dav1d: Oh. cool then
15:45 < dav1d> dx: and he is on 3/4 of the day :P
15:46 < dx> oh what about fragmer? is he here?
15:47 < dx> i see commits only
15:47 < dav1d> .seen fragmer
15:47 < feepbot> dav1d: I have last seen fragmer 105 weeks, 10 hours ago saying "no difference there".
15:47 < dav1d> dx: ^
15:47 < dx> so it's kinda like mostawesomedude
15:47 < dx> sigh
15:47 < dav1d> not sure if he changed nickts
15:47 < AnotherOne> what is voice here?
15:47 -!- Zachoz is now known as Zachoz|Away
15:47 < dx> dav1d: yes, "simpson", but he left the channel for some reason in february
15:48 <+ammar2> AnotherOne: http://mcdevs.org/
15:48 <+ammar2> last bit of first paragraph
15:48 < dav1d> just some randomly voiced people which think they rule the world :P
15:48 < dx> voice means awesome, like ammar2
15:48 < dav1d> s/which/who/
15:48 < dav1d> damn german
15:48 < AnotherOne> heh
15:48 <+ammar2> dav1d: bow down filthy unvoiced peasent
15:48 < AnotherOne> same problem
15:48 < dav1d> AnotherOne: :)
15:48 < dav1d> ah
15:48 < dav1d> ammar2: :)
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16:07 < nastyCreeper> are binaural beats harmful?
16:07 < nastyCreeper> i.e. i-doser
16:09 < dx> wat
16:10 < nastyCreeper> dx: i.e. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEHVz5XCmBs
16:10 < nastyCreeper> ( in headphones )
16:12 < dx> 20hz lol
16:13 < nastyCreeper> please read the description.
16:13 < dx> that's usually the minimum frequency headphones support, wouldn't be surprised if you weren't actually hearing anything
16:14 < dx> i mean you do hear something but that's not 20hz at all
16:14 < nastyCreeper> dx: please don't act smart
16:14 < dx> uh..
16:14 < dx> you were the one asking
16:14 < nastyCreeper> in binaural beats, the 'real' hz are made by using slightly varying frequencies in different ears
16:14 < dx> is it around 20hz or not?
16:14 < nastyCreeper> which means, if left ear gives 200hz and right 220hz, you will 'hear' 10hz
16:15 < dx> oh, that crap
16:15 < nastyCreeper> 20hz *
16:15 < jast> basically a modulation effect
16:15 < nastyCreeper> thank god we have 2 ears
16:15 < jast> personally, when I listen to binaural beats, nothing happens
16:15 < jast> (except that I find them annoying0
16:16 < nastyCreeper> i now listen to 20hz for couple of minutes, and became more focused
16:16 < nastyCreeper> than before
16:16 < nastyCreeper> hardly a coinscidence
16:16 < dx> dat placebo
16:16 < dav1d> lol
16:16 < nastyCreeper> dx: no.
16:16 < nastyCreeper> dx: i also did experiments.
16:16 < dx> science!
16:16 < jast> if you want modulated very low frequencies, isochronic tones give you a much stronger modulation effect
16:16 < dav1d> does your C code contain twice the amount of macros now?
16:17 < nastyCreeper> dx: i chose samples randomly, then wrote effects i experienced
16:17 < nastyCreeper> only after that i looked at what i was listening
16:17 < jast> those don't even require stereo
16:17 < nastyCreeper> jast: right now i need to increase speed of my brain
16:17 < nastyCreeper> to shrink subjective time
16:17 < nastyCreeper> and do more stuff in less time
16:17 < dx> lol
16:18 < jast> that has little to do with 'brain speed' and much more to do with subjective experience
16:18 < jast> it's not like the brain runs on a clock
16:18 < nastyCreeper> jast: the faster is brain, the slower it sees the outer world
16:18 < nastyCreeper> and counterwise
16:18 < jast> the brain is not a computer
16:18 < nastyCreeper> jast: but it has some kind of frequency
16:18 < jast> exactly
16:18 < jast> "some kind of frequency"
16:18 < nastyCreeper> yeah, i.e. delta/theta waves in sleep
16:19 < nastyCreeper> alpha/beta while awake etc
16:19 < dx> oh, there's a drug that does exactly that. it's not exactly a drug, though, but it's sold like one.
16:19 < dx> it's called "accela", check it out
16:19 < nastyCreeper> dx: i'm concerned with my health though
16:19 < nastyCreeper> long-term health
16:19 < jast> these frequencies are just a representation of how frequently certain firing patterns happen
16:19 < nastyCreeper> jast: yeah
16:19 < jast> the brain isn't faster at all, it just does different things
16:20 < nastyCreeper> jast: programming is about firing patterns
16:20 < nastyCreeper> so frequency is a bottleneck
16:20 < jast> feel free to say more nonsense while I go away to do something else
16:20 < dx> hm yeah this looks pretty bad http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_grl13ar2sRg/S-ptikE3yQI/AAAAAAAAACU/b76QNcjVNJc/s1600/Capture.JPG
16:20 < dx> but you get the effect you want!
16:20 < nastyCreeper> jast: have you run out of arguments?
16:21 < dav1d> lol
16:21 < dav1d> how can a single person be so ignorant
16:21 < jast> I've run out of patience and interest in talking to you about this
16:23 < dx> >Accela. A "smart drug." Upon ingestion, it oscillates at a particular frequency which causes the secretion of a hormone (neurotransmitter?) which influences the user's sense of time, causes the user to feel as if his consciousness is accelerated, and also improves the brain's speed of calculation. The drug disappears from the body after one day.
16:23 < jast> I'll just say this much: I believe thinking about the brain as if there is such a thing as "making it go faster" is misleading and there are probably much more effective ways to think about it
16:23 < dx> accela has frequencies too!
16:23 < redu> do something you want to do, instead of thinking about how to do it faster :|
16:23 < Flemmard> accela is the brain overclocking. fun at first but can reduce/break it? :>
16:24 < jast> the smart way to get faster, IMO, is to learn to do more things automatically
16:24 < dav1d> gotta get my brain a new gpu
16:24 < jast> all that requires is a conducive mindset and a bit of actual doing
16:24 < nastyCreeper> redu: i want to code a shitload of lines in 1 evening
16:24 < nastyCreeper> and i want to code it right
16:25 < dav1d> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
16:25 < dx> what's cool about accela is that it brings you up to the speed of the wir- er i mean the internet. that's how it works, slowing down physical reality is just a side effect
16:25 < jast> write in assembler
16:25 < dav1d> ^ indicates the error
16:25 < jast> that way you write more lines of code for any given piece of functionality
16:25 < dav1d> dx: can I plug my finger into a lan cable and understand the internet if I take accela?
16:26 < nastyCreeper> jast: the algorithm is yet to be created, i can't "learn to do it automatically"
16:26 < dx> dav1d: you can be the internet
16:26 < dav1d> awesome
16:26 < dx> dav1d: i think you have to kill yourself for that though, but it's worth the risk
16:26 < dav1d> but I can be the internet!
16:26 < dx> of course
16:27 < dav1d> and my dna will hold all the bytes!
16:27 < dav1d> cool shit
16:27 < dx> yeah dude
16:27 < nastyCreeper> can we remove  dav1d troll please?
16:27 < nastyCreeper> he's not funny
16:27 < dx> lol
16:27 < dav1d> I AM THE INTERNETZ YOU CANT REMOVE ME WITHOUT KILLING YOUR CONNECTION
16:28 < dx> just go to the hardware store around the corner and ask them for a tcp cutter
16:28 < nastyCreeper> !ops dav1d troll caps flood spam
16:28 < dav1d> lol
16:28 < AnotherOne> I ARE /fixed
16:28 < nastyCreeper> TkTech sadimusi
16:28 < dav1d> nastyCreeper: I would highlight Prf_Jako_b he is an op too
16:28 < dx> i'd like to know what kind of bot in this channel handles "!ops"
16:29 < dav1d> dx: none, haha
16:29 < Seegee> Hey guys, does anyone know if there is a rate limit on packet 0x6B? I am trying to drop multiple items at once but only the first stack drops...
16:29 < dav1d> dx: but tell this some ignorant guy who believes in that
16:30 < AnotherOne> Seegee: so send more packets
16:30 < dx> in other news i started rewatching serial experiments lain a few weeks ago, if you haven't noticed
16:30 < dav1d> Seegee: is 0x6b really for dropping out of the inventory?
16:30 < AnotherOne> nope
16:31 < dx> i watched it years ago but now i can recognize and understand most snippets of code that they just put everywhere for no reason
16:31 < Seegee> Out of creative inventory, yes
16:31 < dav1d> mh
16:32 < Seegee> AnotherOne: Send more 0x6b packets?
16:32 < TobiX> dx: Lain is awesome :)
16:32 < dav1d> I thought it was for: creative -> hotbar
16:32 < dav1d> but I can be wrong
16:32 < AnotherOne> i think 1 packet = 1 item (stack)
16:32 < Seegee> If you have the slot index as -1, it drops the item
16:32 < dav1d> I see
16:33 < dx> TobiX: it's really outstanding among other anime, you can easily compare it to other cyberpunk literature
16:34 < nastyCreeper> dav1d: you are always wrong
16:34 < Seegee> AnotherOne: I am already sending multiple packets with multiple stacks, but once it gets to the second or third one, it just wont drop it.
16:34 < nastyCreeper> Seegee: i think that depends on server
16:34 < nastyCreeper> not exactly protocol question
16:34 < dav1d> I should write a nick blacklist for my notify-osd plugin
16:34 < nastyCreeper> dav1d: just leave the channel
16:35 < dx> dav1d: lol.
16:35 < dx> nastyCreeper: just leave the channel
16:35 < AnotherOne> If an item is picked up from the quick bar (item id is -1) 
16:35 < nastyCreeper> dx ?
16:35 < AnotherOne> more items on quick bar?
16:36 < dx> dav1d: oh god you're using two different weechats at the same time what is this i don't even
16:36 < dav1d> dx: mh?
16:36 < dav1d> dx: two weechats, one znc?
16:36 < dx> dav1d: ctcp version sends two replies lol. i know it's possible but it always surprises me every time it happens
16:36 < dx> ye
16:36 < dav1d> dx: hehe
16:36 < dav1d> I didn't even know that happens
16:37 < dav1d> I thought znc eats them for dinner
16:37 < dx> some BNCs reply with their own version too
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16:40 < TobiX> dx: And some people just write random crap into their CTCP VERSION...
16:40 < dx> TobiX: yes hello
16:41 < dav1d> :D
16:41 < dav1d> dx: lol
16:41 < dav1d> "irssi master race"
16:41 < dx> :D
16:41 < jast> I use the only sane IRC client
16:42 < dav1d> jastirc?
16:42 < dx> the version number doesn't even matter since they won't release a new one for the rest of eternity
16:43 < jast> too bad I retired the version response with the eyesore-inducing colours
16:43 < dav1d> I don't believe your ctcp version jast 
16:43 < dx> haha
16:43 < TobiX> dx: It's perfeeeeeect!
16:43 < jast> if software still gets updated, clearly it's not perfect yet
16:44 < dx> actually the irssi devs don't update because they believe that
16:45 < dx> i'm just wondering if this lack of updates will ever force me to use weechat instead
16:46 < dav1d> dx: imo weechat > irssi
16:46 < jast> irssi is perfect: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=irssi;dist=unstable
16:46 < dx> dav1d: maybe! 
16:47 < dx> i'm willing to switch if i ever think it's needed
16:47 < dav1d> jast: doesn't load for me
16:47  * TobiX giggles: "when using UTF-8, nicknames that contain ISO-8859 characters don't display properly"
16:48 < dx> ..nicknames?
16:48 < dav1d> one of the main reasons I switched from irssi to weechat was the nicklist, shortly after that I realized I don't need no fucking nicklist (well barely need it), but I am glad I switched, weechat feels so much more useable
16:48 < dx> heh, the nicklist, i'm sure that's the main reason for a lot of people
16:49 < Seegee> http://webchat.freenode.net/ > *
16:50 < nastyCreeper> as far as i hate that, i agree with dav1d
16:50 < nastyCreeper> weechat is superior
16:53 < dx> you hate agreeing with dav1d?
16:54 < dav1d> ya andrea hates me
16:58 < dx> wait what
17:11 < nastyCreeper> dx: everybody hates agreeing with dav1d
17:13 < dx> i'll just assume you threw a completely random statement with no serious meaning.
17:16 < jast> just that guy being that guy
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17:20 < dx> just that guy jousting that guy
17:22 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: http://neural-boost.com/images/eve_odyssey/paladin.jpg <-- I think its time to start flying battleships...
17:22 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: http://neural-boost.com/images/eve_odyssey/navy_apoc.jpg
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17:31 < dx> hey guys i need a good tool to open large files with json objects and manipulate them as a tree (it's relevant to the channel because the minecraft protocol is going to be a JSON REST api soon. okay not really.)
17:32 < dx> oh wait the last time i searched for one of those it was xml instead of json, maybe there's hope that i can find one of these myself
17:33 <+pdelvo> you could use a ide. they have good code/text editors in most cases. the visual studio editor works very well with big files for example
17:33 < dx> actually, i just used a text editor with folding the last time for xml
17:34 < dx> but i'm not sure if a text editor / ide is going to be efficient for this
17:35 < dx> oh, it's not so big, just 1.2mb of json
17:35 < dx> might give it a try
17:36 < nastyCreeper> pdelvo: visual studio requires microshaft winblows, doesn't it?
17:37 < dx> classy
17:37 < dx> nastyCreeper: that was just an example anyway
17:37 < nastyCreeper> dx: sounded more like m$ propaganda
17:39 < dx> haha funny guy
17:39 < nastyCreeper> dx: this won't be as funny when they take your family away
17:39 < dx> hahaha funny guy
17:39 < nastyCreeper> ?
17:40 < GudangGaram> just use gvim
17:40 < nastyCreeper> what's funny here?
17:40 <+ammar2> nastyCreeper: out of curiousity, do you audit any code you run on your computer?
17:40 < nastyCreeper> ammar2: of course not
17:40 < nastyCreeper> it's impossible
17:40 < nastyCreeper> why do you ask?
17:40 < dx> GudangGaram: holy shit you're the same guy who apparently i've never seen in this channel but you're in my chat logs and someone mentioned you as an old lurker a while ago
17:40 < jast> yeah, eclipse is clearly tons better than visual studio
17:41 < jast> not least because it's so much more java
17:41 < dx> GudangGaram: sorry if that's a weird reaction
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17:53 < GudangGaram> dx: lol yeah uh, I used to hang out here quite some time ago 
17:54 < GudangGaram> but kinda got tired of SirCmp so I decided the best way to avoid any trouble was to not be here ... but I got told he got put on the bad boys list so .. I'm back :P
17:54 < dx> hahaha
17:55 < dx> seems like people deciding to stay out of this channel because of him was rather common
17:56 < redu> wai you no like him :<
17:58 < dx> redu: i appreciate his technical skills but he doesn't seem to be good with communication.
17:59 <+pdelvo> Im a hidden microsoft propagand. I now told the headquarter about it which redirect it to the fbi. they know who you are because of a hidden trojaner in your bios
17:59 < dx> pdelvo: :D
17:59 <+pdelvo> :D
17:59 < dx> did you know that mojang is conspiring against us to stop using nbt and use json instead?
18:00 < dx> maybe i'm being too paranoid...
18:00 <+pdelvo> there is a trojaner in the json format specification too
18:01 < Yoshi2> and every single json implementation in the world contains the trojaner from the format specification
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18:01 < dx> it doesn't need to be in the implementation
18:02 < dx> the way the format is specified to be parsed sets a specific sequence of CPU registers that trigger the BIOS trojaner to send your login information to mojang
18:02 -!- SuinDraw [~NiaTeppel@WiseOS/Founder/NiaTeppelin] has joined #mcdevs
18:03 <+pdelvo> possible
18:06 < GudangGaram> redu: as for wai I dun like him, well, not going into that :D 
18:07 < redu> :<
18:07 < redu> ok
18:08 < AnotherOne> someone say 'dick' in german
18:09 < GudangGaram> redu: well it's not really fair to talk bad about someone when they're not here to defend themselves :P 
18:10 <+pdelvo> do you mean the german word "dick"?
18:11 < dx> wikipedia tells me that in germany they are called "richard" too
18:13 < Calinou> 'dick' in german
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18:35 < AnotherOne> Calinou: lol
18:35 < AnotherOne> i mean penis
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18:45 < Calinou> AnotherOne: penis eliminated you.
18:46 < Yoshi2> well, that was random
18:47 < AnotherOne> wut?
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18:55 < dx> it's a metaphor for the reproduction instincts that are meant for survival but also motivate you to take risks that you would normally avoid
18:56 < dx> that's what he meant with "penis eliminated you"
19:02 < AnotherOne> thank you for enlightening me, kind sir:)
19:04 < AnotherOne> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gZ2dxyKWpE
19:07 < dx> why do you link negative videos, AnotherOne
19:07 < dx> please be more positive
19:07 < AnotherOne> why negavite?
19:07 < AnotherOne> negative*
19:07 < dx> check video id
19:07 < AnotherOne> lol
19:09 < AnotherOne> i do it because i am EVIL
19:09 < Yoshi2> negative != evil
19:10 < AnotherOne> true
19:10 < AnotherOne> i think i'm more like chaotic neutral, not evil:)
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20:03 < Not-002> [wiki] Edit by SnoFox to Category:Minecraft Modern -> http://tinyurl.com/povscpf
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20:21 < AnotherOne> fuck threads
20:21 < AnotherOne> fuck deadlocks
20:21 < AnotherOne> heil boost::asio
20:21 < AnotherOne> if i could get it...
20:23 < dx> oh lol i just saw this
20:23 < dx> https://github.com/Mojang/LegacyLauncher/issues/1
20:24 < dx> (don't mind the 8 hour lag)
20:24 < dx> sucks that he didn't explain the reason to close it
20:25 < dav1d> who is dequis?
20:25 < dav1d> dx: is it you?
20:25 < dx> dav1d: me
20:25 < dav1d> kk
20:25 < dx> should i just copy-paste what he said here before closing it, for completeness?
20:25 < dav1d> I like your gravatar
20:25 < dx> thanks, i'm a spooky vampire
20:26 < dav1d> fucking youtube lately
20:31 < Yoshi2> it would be nice to know the reason for closing the issue
20:32 < dx> he said it here
20:34 < AnotherOne> you see now?
20:34 < dx> http://dpaste.com/1201461/
20:34 < AnotherOne> resistance is futile
20:34 < dx> AnotherOne: lolol
20:35 < dav1d> dx: should we open a pull request with a beerware license attached?^^
20:35 < AnotherOne> do it!
20:36 < Yoshi2> the issue is not important enough, right
20:36 < Yoshi2> instead of leaving it open so it can be fixed at a later point
20:37 < dav1d> na not gonna do it
20:37 < AnotherOne> default license is "all rights reserved" i think
20:37 < dx> AnotherOne: which also means "clicking the fork button is illegal"
20:37 < dx> fun.
20:37 < dx> of course, this issue doesn't matter at all
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20:38 < AnotherOne> what about public exposition?
20:38 < dx> it's in a "grey area"
20:38 < dav1d> dammit someone started following me, I think I should know him ...
20:38 < dx> whatever "grey area" means
20:38  * SpaceManiac yawns
20:38 < dav1d> I also think he studies with me
20:38 < dx> SpaceManiac: why do i suspect your yawns are really meaningful in contet
20:38 < dx> *context
20:39 < dx> but seriously
20:39 < dx> let's not discuss this
20:39 < dav1d> and he fucking has google glasses
20:39 < dx> i just requested one file to be uploaded to a repository, this was considered too much effort, end of the story
20:40 < AnotherOne> dav1d: TEH SPY!!111
20:40 < dx> dav1d: is that a good or a bad thing?
20:40 <+pdelvo> what do you think about the pbunny license. So we can be sure the fbi has not put any trojaners in it
20:40 < dav1d> well he wore them
20:40 < dav1d> I want them, too!
20:40 < dx> dav1d: :D
20:41 < AnotherOne> you know what to do
20:41 < dx> i don't like google glass.. sounds like it's going to affect the way people behave negatively
20:41 < Grum> <dx> sucks that he didn't explain the reason to close it <-- why would i need to explain anything?
20:41 < AnotherOne> Grum: because it is ok
20:41 < dx> Grum: just in case someone reads the ticket later?
20:41 < dav1d> Grum: would be good to know on github why you closed it
20:41 < AnotherOne> and being a dick is not
20:42 < Grum> i'll clean up the whole issue if you prefer that :)
20:42 < dav1d> Grum: also if you want I can add a license (any you want) in form of a pull request
20:42 < dx> Grum: if you believe it is absurd, state it
20:42 < Grum> i'll be stating nothing
20:42 < dx> Grum: okay. i am sorry for wasting your precious time.
20:42 < Grum> thanks!
20:42 <+SpaceManiac> oh, g'afternoon Grum, or whatever time it is there
20:43 < Grum> dav1d: you in general close invalid tickets
20:43 < dav1d> Grum: mh?
20:43 <+pdelvo> http://www.omfgdogs.com/
20:45 < dav1d> this 
20:45 < dav1d> hurts
20:45 < dav1d> my
20:45 < dav1d> eyes
20:45 < Grum> SpaceManiac: hai
20:45 <+pdelvo> :D
20:45 < Grum> dx: what i really do not get is how you make a problem only you have a problem i need to solve
20:47 < dx> Grum: i just stated an issue in a repository. the issue exists. you don't need to fix it if you don't want to.
20:47 < Grum> I mean that code is not even in use, i cannot imagine what you would need to use it for :/
20:47 < Grum> lacking a license is *not* an issue
20:47 < dx> okay
20:48 < dav1d> is it a bad idea when I want to process all items of a queue hold the queue lock until all items are processed instead of acquiring it for every item?
20:48 <+SpaceManiac> dav1d: I imagine it depends on how long the processing takes
20:48 <+pdelvo> what does "process" mean?
20:48 < dav1d> mh
20:49 <+pdelvo> I would depend that on how long the processing needs
20:49 < dav1d> I try to keep brala.utils.* very general, which includes brala.utils.queue
20:49 < dav1d> so processing can be everything
20:49 <+pdelvo> make it configurable
20:49 < dav1d> in my case it's dispatching the minecraft packets which arrived in the queue
20:49 <+pdelvo> you could even copy the items in it and process them
20:49 <+pdelvo> so you can unlock the queue directly
20:50 < dav1d> copying .. na, I don't know how long the queue is, this could be costly
20:50 <+pdelvo> not as costly as locking a queue for a minute
20:50 < dav1d> https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/brala/utils/queue.d#L141
20:51 < dav1d> in line 146 this calls get, which acquires the lock
20:52 < dav1d> also empty locks
20:52 < dav1d> I don't like that at all
20:52 < Grum> dx: do you need to use it for something orso?
20:53 < Grum> because there is a compiled version of it available you can just use if you want
20:53 <+pdelvo> I would not catch the exception there
20:53 < dav1d> pdelvo: why?
20:53 < dav1d> there is a really small chance that this can happen
20:53 < dav1d> but it is possible
20:53 <+pdelvo> catch exception where you can react on them. if the delegate throws a exception the user of the queue should deal with it
20:54 < dav1d> pdelvo: this is foreach implementation
20:54 < dav1d> foreach(foo; queue)
20:54 < dav1d> calls opApply
20:54 < dav1d> this shouldn't throw
20:54 <+pdelvo> the dg is a delegate to usercode?
20:54 < dav1d> yes
20:54 < dav1d> oh I see what you mean
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20:54 < dav1d> get could throw empty
20:54 <+pdelvo> So it can throw an exception
20:54 < dav1d> good point
20:55 <+pdelvo> maybe the user wants to eact different on different exceptions of his code
20:56 <+pdelvo> or he just want to see whats wrong with his code. you are just silently throwing that information away
20:58 <+pdelvo> you could just catch your exception e.g. if your queue is empty
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20:59 < dav1d> pdelvo: ok I rewrote it, I introduced "get_no_lock", for the whole opApply only one lock is acquired
20:59 < dav1d> so iterating over it blocks the queue
21:01 < dav1d> oh damn
21:01 < dav1d> this could break existing code
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21:06 < dx> whoops sorry, was afk
21:07 < dx> Grum: no, sorry, i don't need to use it. it's just that whenever i see a github repo that could be useful but has an undefined license, i ask for clarifications.
21:08 < dx> Grum: github is about open source, and a certain amount of freedom over what you can do with the code, so it's better to avoid situations in which people "steal" code that wasn't supposed to be used
21:09 < dx> Grum: so it was just that, asking for a clarification. i got your answer indirectly i guess, "don't care"
21:09 < dx> ..well rather directly in this channel
21:09 < dx> ..well rather directly in this channel
21:09 < dx> damn up+enter
21:10 < dx> Grum: but all of this seriously makes me wonder, why does this bullshit of "not open source but everyone can still deobfuscate jars freely" continue? why can't you do things right?
21:10 < Grum> dx: its not even my code, we didn't write it
21:11 < Grum> dx: define right?
21:11 < Grum> also what would you like to do against deobfuscation?
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21:12 < dx> Grum: legally right (since there's no such thing as "grey area"), and most importantly don't bother obfuscating if you don't care about what people do with the code
21:12 < dx> Grum: just... apply a decently restrictive license that is still open source.
21:12 < dx> Grum: you probably heard this a thousand of times already, sorry
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21:13 < Grum> yeah just wondering what i'll say next
21:13 < Grum> i mean, we do have some interest in keeping it as it is
21:13 < Grum> there is no benefit for us to change it
21:14 < dx> hah
21:14 < dx> i really like how you have the same explanation for everything
21:14 <+ammar2> and so we come back to the age old "no benefit for us" argument :D
21:14 < dx> consistency is good!
21:14 < Grum> not really, else i'd say it would be low on our list of priorities ;)
21:14 <+ammar2> Grum: how about this, it doesn't hurt you either but it significantly helps devs
21:15 < Grum> oh i can be more consistent, the idea is to not obfuscate anything we do for the api
21:15 <+ammar2> would you not like to make their lives a bit easier
21:15 < Grum> ammar2: helps them how?
21:15 <+ammar2> not having to figure out obf. mappings every release
21:15 < Grum> would there not be a bukkit or mcp or forge? wait they exist
21:15 < Grum> ammar2: not really much of an issue according to the people doing it
21:15 < dx> we could just do the refactoring you don't have time to do, release under the same license, and it's completely legal and all it takes is code reviews
21:16 <+pdelvo> @dav1d nice. I think it is better that way
21:16 < Grum> dx: doesn't really work like that though
21:16 < dav1d> pdelvo: works flawlessly
21:16 < dx> Grum: why not?
21:16 < Grum> because any refactoring is major surgery
21:16 <+pdelvo> :)
21:16 < Grum> which means any of those pullrequests would be close to impossible to accept
21:16 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±4] http://git.io/a7Xoug
21:17 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 0dfde91 - All packets are now processed in the main thread
21:17 < dav1d> there it is!
21:17 < dav1d> got rid of a huge amount of locks
21:17 < dx> then limit pull requests to small changes
21:17 < Grum> dx: which would make it a pointless effort
21:17 < dx> there are ways to improve the current codebase starting with little stuff
21:17 < dx> adding a packet length header isn't pointless
21:17 < Grum> that change wouldn't get accepted
21:17 < dx> gotcha
21:17 < Grum> and thus only take our time
21:18 <+pdelvo> is twitter down?
21:18 <+ammar2> Grum: well its still making their lives easier, often enough only critical stuff which is used in bukkit, forge etc is refactored with pretty names. It'd make the code easier to poke into until something proper can be come up with at no benefit or major caveats to you
21:18 < Grum> dx: i agree we can use more help but i'm not sure doing it that way is 'sane'
21:18 < dx> Grum: then don't accept pull requests. let people mod the stuff, under the condition that every modified and linked file is under the same license
21:19 < dx> Grum: you can just take what you consider useful
21:19 < Grum> but allowing modding would be not really a restrictive license right?
21:19 < dx> restrictive license could be anything
21:19 < dav1d> lol
21:19 < dav1d> I made it segfault, yay
21:20 <+Prf_Jakob> Grum: what do you gain by obfuscating it, if people can deobfuscate the code (while spenind work on it)?
21:21 < Grum> it makes our code more readable :p
21:21 <+Prf_Jakob> Grum: how...?
21:21 < dx> we can already see all shittiness clearly, all we're going to get is the explanation of a few unknown methods and code comments
21:21 < Grum> code comments? we dont have those
21:22 < dx> something less to worry about
21:22 <+pdelvo>  
21:22 <+pdelvo>  
21:22 <+pdelvo> /When I wrote this, only God and I understood what I was doing
21:22 <+pdelvo>  
21:22 <+pdelvo> I really need a better irc client I guess
21:22 <+Prf_Jakob> hehe classic
21:22 < dx> now only god does
21:22 < dav1d> awesome segfault in std.signals
21:23 <+Prf_Jakob> dav1d: oh you are using signals?
21:23 <+Prf_Jakob> lol
21:23 < dav1d> Prf_Jakob: why?
21:23 <+Prf_Jakob> its... odd...
21:23 < dav1d> I like it
21:23 < dav1d> well it has its flaws
21:23 < dav1d> std.signals2 is definitly an improvement
21:23 <+Prf_Jakob> segfaults among others..
21:23 < dav1d> :P
21:23 <+Prf_Jakob> oh didn't know about singals2
21:24 <+ammar2> Grum: but yeah, no obfuscation would be a great gesture to most of the mods out there. You'd be getting rid of the monotonous initial part of the update cycle and since more of the code will be readily understandable you can potentially backmerge stuff in like those old craftbukkit optimizations
21:24 < dav1d> all segfaults I had so far were based that you need to pass a gc allocated delegate (eg. struct methods will segfault)
21:25 < dav1d> omg
21:25 < dav1d> switiching lines → no segfault
21:25 < Grum> ammar2: we'll end up with less obfuscation over time
21:25 < dav1d> not sure if I should be happy or I should cry
21:25 < dx> Grum: "less"? what does that even mean?
21:26 <+Prf_Jakob> dav1d: you died a little bit inside
21:26 < Grum> dx: there will always be obfuscated parts
21:26 < dav1d> Prf_Jakob: go volt!
21:26 < Grum> the parts you shouldnt care for
21:26 <+ammar2> Grum: over time is vague and a cop out, whats wrong with no or minimal obfuscation on the next release
21:26 < dav1d> Prf_Jakob: then I can blame myself is std.signals sucks
21:26 < dav1d> s/is/when/
21:26 <+Prf_Jakob> dav1d: still waiting for your AA code :-p
21:26 < Grum> ammar2: timeinvestment of doing that?
21:27 < dav1d> Prf_Jakob: sorry I dont have much time lately, I hope I can do more on mi-so
21:27 < Grum> i mean we have pieces of code that i'd consider not worth obfuscating already
21:27 < dav1d> eh
21:27 < Grum> but its a huge investment splitting it off right now
21:27 < dav1d> what is the day after tomorrow called?
21:27 < dx> Grum: i'm really curious what stops you from just turning off the obfuscator
21:27 <+ammar2> Grum: time investment of removing a couple of lines of an obfuscation module?
21:27 < Grum> we actually considered it
21:27 <+Prf_Jakob> dav1d: onsdahg
21:27 < dav1d> wednesday?
21:27 <+Prf_Jakob> onsdag*
21:27 < Grum> ammar2: if only :/
21:27 < dav1d> Prf_Jakob: english :P
21:27 <+Prf_Jakob> dav1d: yeah wednesday
21:27 < dav1d> the day after tuesday
21:27 < dav1d> ah kk
21:27 < dav1d> ^^
21:27 < Grum> dx: it does more than just obfuscating
21:28 < dx> i.. i don't get it
21:28 <+ammar2> Grum: could you be a tad bit more specific?
21:29 < Grum> it strips out significant parts of unused code
21:29 <+ammar2> usually an obfuscation setup is as simple as putting in a maven/ant/whatever plugin and enabling it in the config
21:29 < Grum> ammar2: you have to configure the obfuscation
21:29 < balrog> can't you do that without obfuscating names though?
21:29 < Grum> which is far from a trivial task
21:29 < Grum> especially with that horrible thing we use :p
21:29 < dx> you mentioned you run the obfuscator over the launcher without name obfuscation, only removing unused code
21:29 <+ammar2> Grum: its a maximum of like 10 minutes to get a good proguard setup
21:30 < Grum> ammar2: its not
21:30 < Grum> proguard is one of the worst things to ever use :/
21:31 < dx> Grum: i still don't get it, so let's look it from other point of view: do you have some sort of legal agreements with third party coders that force you to obfuscate stuff?
21:32 < Grum> nope, just a horrifying codebase that needs hiding :p
21:32 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±5] http://git.io/RwoGBQ
21:32 <+ammar2> most of us know how horrible it is, we've dealt with it regularly. Hiding it ain't gonna do much for you
21:32 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde de83cb8 - All packets are now processed in the main thread
21:33 < dx> what kind of horribleness is MCP missing?
21:33 < dx> i have no idea really
21:33 < dx> unless you care about coding style conventions
21:33 <+ammar2> Grum: how complicated can your setup be? Will it take weeks to configure your obfuscator to only strip off unused bits
21:33 < Grum> ammar2: nope
21:33 <+ammar2> Grum: guesstimate
21:33 < Grum> 11 minutes
21:33 < Grum> but that wont do :)
21:35 <+ammar2> so let me get this straight, you don't want to spend 11 minutes of changing configs for something that provides a benefit to modders
21:35 < Grum> yes
21:35 < dav1d> :D
21:35 < Grum> because we do not intend to completely remove obfuscation
21:36 < dx> Grum: what kind of classes need to be kept obfuscated in your opinion?
21:36 < Grum> the ones you shouldn't care for
21:36 < balrog> yeah, what we're going to have is a "public API" which isn't obfuscated, and everything else is obfuscated
21:36 < Grum> which is part of the core of the engine
21:36 < balrog> ...unless you want to do certain things, yeah
21:36 < Grum> like how worlds are saved, world generation, rendering in general
21:37 < Grum> right now everything is completely entangled
21:37 <+pdelvo> The FBI Trojaner. I _knew_ it!
21:37 < balrog> wgen should be modular
21:37 < Grum> yes, modular not opensource
21:37 < balrog> deobfuscated != opensource
21:37 < Grum> not really
21:37 < Grum> stops no-one from ripping it off in whole
21:38 < Grum> now at least it takes a bit of effort/skill/time
21:38 < dx> Grum: is the reason to hide those classes still because it's horrible? so, you would like to have time to refactor that mess first?
21:38 < balrog> obfuscation stops no-one from ripping off in whole, especially with MCP existing
21:38 < balrog> copyright law does
21:38 < Grum> the people who do wholesale ripping off do not care for laws :p
21:39 < dx> Grum: "effort/skill/time" -> all of that spent by the MCP project in a nearly automated process
21:39 <+ammar2> Grum: who wants to rip off that horrible code base
21:39 < balrog> those people are already ripping it off
21:39 < balrog> and have been since minecraft took off
21:39 < Grum> dx: so what is the problem? you are again saying it is already done
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21:39 <+ammar2> Grum: its unecessary work which takes up modders hours which you can change in 11 minutes
21:40 < dx> Grum: "nearly" automated since it still requires a lot of human work to do the mappings, but could be more if they hadn't written lots of tools for it
21:40 < dx> Grum: this isn't needed.
21:40 < Grum> ammar2: i can do a lot more in 11 minutes
21:40 < Grum> 'a lot of human work' means 'Searge time'
21:40 < Grum> he is one of the people who agrees we should keep obfuscation
21:40 -!- Yoshi2 [~chatzilla@xdsl-87-78-122-121.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
21:41 -!- Yoshi2| is now known as Yoshi2
21:41 <+ammar2> Grum: what for? as in what's his reasoning to keep obf.
21:42 < Grum> because it would break more than it would 'fix'
21:42 < GudangGaram> well I assume the code works when it's not obfuscated
21:42 <+Prf_Jakob> lets drop this
21:43 < GudangGaram> so the "it'd break more than it'd fix" is a bit of a ... odd one
21:43 <+Prf_Jakob> We are just wasting the Majong people time.
21:43 < Grum> not really, it breaks every single mod out there
21:43 < Grum> for what reason? to work with horridly broken code that will change under your feet anyhow?
21:44 < dx> if the obfuscation changes with every release, deobfuscating counts as changing that too
21:45 < dx> Prf_Jakob: lol "majong". but ok
21:45 -!- SuinDraw [~NiaTeppel@WiseOS/Founder/NiaTeppelin] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:45 <+Prf_Jakob> dx: heh, ops :)
21:45 <+Prf_Jakob> I really should get it right, since its in my language and everything.
21:46 < dx> mahjong
21:46 <+Prf_Jakob> Mojäng!
21:46 <+Prf_Jakob> Grunkapär!
21:46 -!- Yoshi2| [~chatzilla@xdsl-78-35-218-142.netcologne.de] has joined #mcdevs
21:46 <+clonejo> Mëjang!
21:46 -!- Yoshi2 [~chatzilla@xdsl-78-35-205-49.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
21:47 -!- Yoshi2| is now known as Yoshi2
21:47 < GudangGaram> it's not like the obfuscation really matters, anyone with 2 braincells can download and install MCP and be looking at deobfuscated source in about 10 minutes
21:48 < dx> yeah, that's why the argument of "stealing minecraft and selling it as something else" is a bit short sighted
21:48 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/cGETcg
21:48 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn a271f8f - Update fNbt
21:48 < Grum> so what were you complaining about again?
21:48 < dx> things you don't care about, as usual
21:49 -!- Cay [~OlofLarss@s83-177-171-150.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:49 < Grum> not really, i do care about it
21:49 < Grum> having obfuscation is painful for us too :P
21:49 < dx> whoa
21:49 < dx> just had to do /whois grum to double check i was talking to the right person
21:50 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 28 commits to refactoring [+8/-0/±93] http://git.io/xg6hzQ
21:50 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] ggrote cd32db8 - - added cleaned chat message to Events/ChatMessageEventArgs.cs - fixed player position (y/stance) - added UpdateSign Handler - fixed MapChunkBulk and ChunkData Handlers - moved reading chunk from stream into single method - added LookAt and "basic" Move to MinecraftClient.Actions - fixed finding blocks by position
21:50 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] ggrote 7c5b15f - - changed ChatHandler to use indexof and remove instead of regex - reverted EntityHandlers.cs - removed braces and changed formatting - changed Move to start an async thread for movement - removed ProtocolVersion and FriendlyVersion as they are not used anymore
21:50 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] ggrote 617af5e - name refactoring
21:50 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] ggrote 903079b - added userid to session
21:50 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn dc43e73 - Upped protocol version
21:50 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 4132736 - Added MinecraftClient.MoveTo
21:50 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 38f03b7 - Cancel current client move operation before starting another
21:50 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 2ab8fa6 - Reponse to cancellation request
21:50 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] aholmes 12c2633 - Fix server crash when sending packets to disconnected clients #155
21:50 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn ebaa56f - Merge pull request #156 from aholmes/master Fix issue #155
21:50 < Grum> whoo Not-002 spam
21:51 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] aholmes 778c19a - Fix issue with players respawning under the map. This is done by adding the PlayerEntity.Height to Level.SpawnPoint. This change also changes storing the PlayerEntity.Height with the position when the user exits. Instead, I opted to add the height wherever needed. This has the effect of not dropping the user twice as high during respawn than during login. Issue #154
21:51 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] aholmes be3e34c - Correct whitespace
21:51 < GudangGaram> Grum: so why have it? If it "breaks" a lot of mods, well, not like that hasn't happened before :P
21:51 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn a6468df - Fix #158
21:51 <+SpaceManiac> \o/
21:51 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 10d2208 - Merge branch 'master' of github.com:SirCmpwn/Craft.Net
21:51 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 05f5b3a - Drop inventory on player death
21:51 < dx> craft.nets everywhere
21:51 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 6e4ea7e - Fix death spamming when falling into the void
21:51 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 330e914 - Slowed down death by void
21:51 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 3303737 - Merge remote-tracking branch 'aholmes/master'
21:51 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn b30f227 - Fix formatting issue with pull request
21:51 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 8277e52 - Removed test code from flatland generator
21:51 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 5ddf97a - Added tab complete event, closes #151
21:51 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 464e36d - Added TabCompleteEventArgs.Handled to avoid sending responses unless needed
21:51 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn a424a9f - Added TabCompleteEventArgs.Client
21:51 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 3be8aef - Fix client bug related to connecting to online mode servers in offline mode
21:51 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn f478f03 - Added overloads to do DNS lookups and such for the user
21:51 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn f480ba5 - Added support for dropping item stacks in creative mode
21:51 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn a271f8f - Update fNbt
21:51 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 7d8d7c2 - Merge master into refactoring
21:51 < Grum> seriously we're getting 28 lines of spam here now?
21:51 < GudangGaram> looks it
21:51 <+SpaceManiac> I don't think that's supposed to happen
21:51 < Grum> >.>
21:51 < Grum> time for a bot-ban!
21:52 < dx> Grum: i believe TkTech wrote notifico as a quick hack to replace the dead CIA bot and never had time to limit the amount of messages properly
21:52 < GudangGaram> aaaanyway now that that's done
21:53 < TkTech> Pfft, that's nothing. https://github.com/TkTech/notifico/issues/26
21:54 -!- barneygale [~barneygal@cpc18-sotn9-2-0-cust33.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #mcdevs
21:54 < TkTech> (Weirdly, kgb and irker do the same thing, even though they have a lot more eyes and work hours)
21:54 < dx> oh it's python
21:55 < dx> i could just figure out how to get it running and, well, fix the issue since nobody else cares
21:55 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: oh did you see the link I pasted a while ago?
21:55 -!- redu_ [redu_@unaffiliated/redu] has quit []
21:55 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: I haven't yet, will check in a minute
21:55 < TkTech> dx: "python setup.py install; python -m notifico www --debug" annnd you're running.
21:56 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: here it is again anyways :) http://neural-boost.com/images/eve_odyssey/paladin.jpg
21:56 < TkTech> (Don't bother fixing anything UI or bot-messaging related, there's a branch 47 commits ahead that completely revamps it)
21:57 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: And something for you http://neural-boost.com/images/eve_odyssey/navy_apoc.jpg
21:57 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: There was a second link wasn't there? My scrollback is gone.
21:57 < dx> TkTech: cool!
21:57 < dx> TkTech: wait, what's bot-messaging?
21:57 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: http://neural-boost.com/odyssey#odyssey-8-5
21:57 < TkTech> dx: The relay over redis to get the formatted messages to the bot.
21:58 < dx> TkTech: oh ok
22:00 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: Hnnnng~
22:00 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: My glorious yellow banana!
22:00 <+Prf_Jakob> heh
22:02 <+Prf_Jakob> The mcdevs moderation apologies for the Eve related interuption in servicies, we will now resume the regular obfuscation discussion.
22:02 <+Prf_Jakob> moderation team*
22:03 < dx> ëgíóéëgñéëíóg
22:03 < dx> oh wait you meant obfuscation discussion not obfuscated discussion
22:04 <+Prf_Jakob> hehe :)
22:04 -!- eddyb [~eddy@unaffiliated/eddyb] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:04 -!- redu_ [redu_@unaffiliated/redu] has joined #mcdevs
22:04 < dx> not much else to talk about
22:04 <+AndrewPH> my hauppauge keeps turning off and on
22:04 < dx> and Grum can do a lot of things in 11 minutes, so let's not waste more instances of "11 grum minutes"
22:05 <+AndrewPH> it made the "plug in" sound every time 
22:05 < GudangGaram> obfuscation is a waste of time >.> let me throw in a loaded statement
22:06 -!- eddyb [~eddy@unaffiliated/eddyb] has joined #mcdevs
22:11 < Grum> GudangGaram: that one is really loaded!
22:11 < dx> really!
22:12 < GudangGaram> very :P
22:13 < GudangGaram> because security through obscurity is no security at all - not that it applies to MC but the general idea behind it still stands
22:13 <+AndrewPH> it's almost as loaded as a loaded potato burrito from taco bell
22:13 -!- zh32|away is now known as zh32
22:16 < GudangGaram> I wouldn't know Andrew, there's no taco bell here :(
22:17 < TkTech> GudangGaram: I think you misunderstand a lot of the reasoning behind it.
22:18 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/4IHjhQ
22:18 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 99c5edb - Removed libjpeg62 as dependency (README)
22:18 < TkTech> GudangGaram: To defend it in court you must typically prove that you at least /attempted/ to protect your IP.
22:18 < dav1d> I hope I can update BraLa to 1.5 this weekend
22:19 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: if that was the case then GPL wouldn't be enforcable...
22:20 < GudangGaram> TkTech: that's what copyrights are for, and you're confusing it with trademarks. Then again, I'm not a lawyer, and unless you are, that line of discussion doesn't really go anywhere since we can both be wrong
22:21 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: The GPL is enforceable because you've explicitly accepted the licence by including it in your source tree/product.
22:21 < GudangGaram> um
22:21 < GudangGaram> how does an end user include the license? the developer does that
22:22 < TkTech> Whose talking about end users?
22:22 < GudangGaram> the GPL is enforcable because the license explicitly states what one can and cannot do with it, so the original *copyright* holder can sue people who breach the license
22:22 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/zr4GVw
22:22 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 2198a06 - update the README some more
22:22 < GudangGaram> Tktech: because otherwise your statement makes no sense at all; the GPL is enforcable because i include it in my product?
22:23 < GudangGaram> Wrong, the GPL is enforcable because the original copyright holder has explicitly stated (by way of said license) what you can and can't do with the product 
22:23 < GudangGaram> Don't make me go dig up a similar discussion on groklaw
22:23 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/Ep85kg
22:23 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 50795b6 - update the README some more
22:23 < dav1d> sorry for the spam, I wanted to stop changing stuff alread 30mins ago
22:23 < TkTech> Actually, that makes perfect sense.
22:24 < dx> TkTech: the fact that there's "copyright" gives you "rights" and you can always defend it by court, i don't see how you have to "attempt to protect it" by any other methods
22:24 < GudangGaram> the only reason I see for anyone obfuscating their code is to hide how horrid it is
22:25 < GudangGaram> but that applies mostly to the ionCubed PHP scripts you find everywhere
22:26 < TkTech> dx: Is it my terminology that's confusing you? I can't see where I mentioned copyright anywhere.
22:26 < dx> haha what php scripts out of nowhere
22:26 < TkTech> (Side point, not all countries are America.)
22:26  * dx is not american either
22:27 < TkTech> Okay, lets try this again.
22:27 < dx> TkTech: copyright law is international though, and i have no idea what else applies here
22:27 < TkTech> Lets say Mojang comes up with a novel method to light the world.
22:27 < TkTech> This is nothing more than a fancy loop and a bunch of ifs.
22:27 < TkTech> They've included it in minecraft.jar and distributed it, unobfuscated.
22:28 <+Prf_Jakob> they have a year after first publication to patent it.
22:28 < TkTech> Bob opens it up, sees this one novel loop, and uses it in his own implementation.
22:29 < dx> if he copies it directly, copyright applies. if he reimplements the idea, patents should apply (for countries that allow software patents...)
22:30 < GudangGaram> clean room implementations are valid everywhere by the way
22:30 < GudangGaram> TkTech, and if it was a totally novel and revolutionary idea, there should be a patent (even though software patents suck ass), and at the very least there is copyright to stop a 1:1 copy 
22:31 < GudangGaram> for example take Samba - they reverse engineered the protocol, then wrote their own implementation from scratch. Microsoft couldn't touch them because no copying took place
22:32 < TkTech> One minute, office is doing a dinner
22:32 < GudangGaram> plus, here's a fun one
22:33 < GudangGaram> a copy of the obfuscated code is *included* in the CraftBukkit repository, and CraftBukkit itself is licensed LGPL
22:33 < dx> shhhhh
22:33 < dx> we don't talk about that
22:33 < GudangGaram> so if Mojang was interested in protecting their IP, that's not the way to go about it
22:33 < GudangGaram> dx: well, I do
22:33 < dx> i'm kidding. bukkit's licensing could be considered an elephant in the room
22:34 < dx> depending on how you look at it
22:34 <+SpaceManiac> I need to reread the GPL and LGPL
22:37 < GudangGaram> plus if you know where to look there's plenty copies of the unobfuscated source floating around out there 
22:38 < dx> but anyway in an alternate reality branched from this one EA could buy mojang and decide to sue every single modder, just because
22:38 < GudangGaram> yup
22:38 < GudangGaram> then again in an alternate reality we could all be Notch >.>
22:38 < dx> lol
22:39 < GudangGaram> heck if I lose any more hair I'm gonna look like him :/ 
22:39 < Yoshi2> in alternate realities a lot of weird stuff is possible
22:40 < dx> that was just another way of saying "mojang could just sue everyone if they had a reason to"
22:40 < GudangGaram> I missed this channel really
22:40 < GudangGaram> it can go from a discussion on obfuscation to copyrights to the GPL right into alternate reality 
22:40 < dx> :D
22:40 < Yoshi2> indeed
22:40 -!- nastyCreeper [~asd@static-71-174-73-11.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Session timeout)]
22:42 < GudangGaram>  hm
22:42 < GudangGaram> 3:40am
22:43 < GudangGaram> something tells me i should be sleeping
22:44 < Yoshi2> 10:43pm here, I should probably go to bed as well
22:44 < dx> 3:40am is when i usually wake up
22:44 < dx> where "usually" means "the last two or three days by some weird coincidence"
22:45 <+pdelvo> @dav1d have you tried brala with bukkit?
22:46 < dav1d> pdelvo: yeah, it used to work
22:46 <+pdelvo> Im trying it out on windows and I only got a bukkit 1.4.7 here so I test it with it. I have chunks which do not load
22:46 < dav1d> I could even connect to shadowempire servers
22:46 < dav1d> (which have a few plugins)
22:47 < dav1d> pdelvo: that probably means I messed up in the rendering code :(
22:47 <+pdelvo> I can see them if I reconnect
22:47 < dav1d> pdelvo: if you move, do new chunks appear?
22:47 <+pdelvo> btw nice work!
22:47 < dav1d> thanks :)
22:47 <+pdelvo> is there a key I can press to fly faster?
22:48 < dav1d> if new chunks appear the tessellation threads at leasnt dont crash
22:48 < dav1d> pdelvo: no :(
22:48 < dav1d> but if you wanna modify the source
22:48 <+pdelvo> I really need this :D
22:48 < dx> "need"?
22:48 < dav1d> pdelvo: https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/brala/entities/player.d#L42
22:48 -!- GudangGaram [~ben@180.244.137.183] has quit [Quit: sleeptime]
22:49 <+pdelvo> If i want to see if chunks load or not I dont want to fly 60min :D
22:49 < dav1d> :D
22:49 < dx> oh heh
22:49 < dav1d> just dont make it too fast, at least in older versions I was kicked for beeing to fast
22:50 < dx> yeah, i had to disable that kick in my server with a plugin
22:51 < dav1d> but having these things adjustable is part of work I wanted to do a long time ago^^
22:51 < dav1d> part if it was also adding physics
22:51 < dx> "physics"
22:51 < dav1d> haha
22:52 < dx> but yeah the part of the job the client has to do with that is kinda interesting
22:52 < dav1d> and badly documentated
22:52 < dx> it fooled me completely when i tested bravo and saw item drops moving, but the server didn't know they moved
22:52 < dav1d> as in, no one has ever done it and wrote it down somewhere
22:53 < dx> fun! :D
22:53 < dav1d> (there is that js bot which has physics, but meh, dat code)
22:53 < dav1d> also no AABB for objects
22:53 <+pdelvo> http://pdelvo.de/brala.bmp
22:53 <+pdelvo> chunks do not load
22:53 < dav1d> uh
22:53 < dx> good ol' bmp loading from bottom to top
22:53 < dav1d> dammit
22:53 <+pdelvo> even if I go further
22:53 <+pdelvo> :D
22:53 < dav1d> man I hate D
22:54 < dx> :D
22:54 < dav1d> tessellation crashes on a single chunk
22:54 < dx> is it D's fault?
22:54 < dav1d> the threads, I messed up somewhere e.g. a block id is too big
22:54 < dav1d> dx: no but the thread implementation doesn't print exceptions
22:54 <+Prf_Jakob> gooooood gooood let the hate flow through you...
22:54 <+pdelvo> I can try regenerate the world if this helps
22:54 < dx> Prf_Jakob: hahaha
22:54 < dav1d> and my pseudo threading class somehow doesn't print them either
22:55 < dav1d> pdelvo: could you try with vanilla just to make sure?
22:55 < dav1d> also do you see in the logs if 441 chunks arrive 
22:55 <+pdelvo> I would if I would have a vanilla server here
22:55 < dav1d> sec I'll upload it
22:57 < dav1d> pdelvo: http://s.dav1d.de/minecraft_server.jar
22:57 < dx> piracy!
22:57 < dav1d> but this looks like it crashes somewhere
22:57 < dav1d> dammit
22:57 < dav1d> pdelvo: is this a newly generated world?
22:57 < dx> (actually this particular jar can be downloaded by anyone on minecraft.net, don't see why you needed to upload it)
22:57 < dav1d> Prf_Jakob: lol
22:58 < dav1d> dx: it's 1.4.7
22:58 < dx> dav1d: oh.
22:58 < dav1d> mojang doesn't host old versions
22:58 < dx> pretty sure they do on AWS
22:58 < dav1d> pdelvo: btw you can change the window dimensions, in res/brala.conf or through commandline
22:59 <+pdelvo> can i turn of vsync?
22:59 < dav1d> pdelvo: nvidia?
22:59 < dx> oh not AWS, assets
22:59 < dx> this still works :D http://assets.minecraft.net/1_2_5/minecraft_server.jar
22:59 < dx> and http://assets.minecraft.net/1_4_7/minecraft_server.jar
22:59 <+pdelvo> jeah. okay i turn it of in the driver
23:00 < dav1d> pdelvo: yeah it's strange
23:00 < dav1d> I have to turn it on and then off again in the driver
23:00 -!- Amaranth [~travis@ubuntu/member/Amaranth] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
23:00 < dav1d> even though I disabled it with glfw
23:00 < dav1d> btw
23:00 < dav1d> window.width and window.height are the config options
23:00 < TRocket> is anyone working on a c/++ based client
23:01 <+pdelvo> hm the chunks dont load too in a new generated vanilla world
23:01 < dav1d> you can also make it resizeable with: window.resizeable = true
23:01 < dav1d> dammit
23:01 < dav1d> pdelvo: can I download your world?
23:01 < dexter0> TRocket: AnotherOne is iirc
23:01 < dav1d> then my tessellator crashes
23:01 < dav1d> and it stops making triangles out of blocks
23:02 < dav1d> mh, did I remove the no threads feauture...
23:02 < dav1d> I wonder
23:02 < dav1d> pdelvo: awesome, you're compiling brala on windows?
23:02 < TRocket> dexter0: thanks
23:02 < dav1d> or linux?
23:02 <+pdelvo> jep
23:02 < dav1d> windows ok
23:02 <+pdelvo> windows
23:02 < dav1d> open build_brala.d
23:02 <+pdelvo> http://pdelvo.de/world.7z
23:03 < dav1d> pdelvo: https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/build_brala.d#L474
23:03 < dav1d> add to this line
23:03 < dav1d> dc.version_("NoThreads")
23:03 < dav1d> this should make brala crash instead of silently failing
23:03 < dav1d> ty
23:04 < dav1d> I hope this nothreads thing works ...
23:04 < dav1d> it doesn't look like it xD
23:04 < dav1d> oh it should
23:04 < dx> are you getting debug output directly from him or what? :D
23:04 <+pdelvo> it is silent as the previous one
23:05 <+pdelvo> I hope not o_O
23:05 < dav1d> mh
23:05 < dav1d> pdelvo: you see debugging shit in your console?
23:05 < dx> if you don't see debugging shit in your console, dav1d might be seeing it in his
23:05 < dav1d> haha
23:05 <+pdelvo> :D
23:06 < dav1d> I think I configured to log to a file
23:06 <+pdelvo> wow the performance is great. ~600fps
23:06 <+pdelvo> you dont need a configuration for that
23:06 < dav1d> yay
23:07 < dav1d> well with only these few chunks
23:07 < dav1d> but more shouldn't make a too huge difference (except jungles)
23:07 <+pdelvo> http://pdelvo.de/log.log
23:07 <+pdelvo> hm
23:07 < dav1d> pdelvo: 404
23:07 <+pdelvo> http://pdelvo.de/log.txt
23:08 <+pdelvo> :D
23:08 < dx> configured to log to a file named "ftp://dav1d.org/pdelvo.log"
23:08 < dx> okay i'll stop
23:08 < dav1d> dx: *dav1d.de
23:08 < dx> dav1d: i just made that up :D
23:08 < dav1d> pdelvo: that was with threads?
23:08 < dx> >You don't have permission to access / on this server
23:08 < dx> :(
23:08 <+pdelvo> nothread
23:09 < dav1d> and you were moving, it looks like
23:09 <+pdelvo> there is nothing too interesting on this domain
23:09 <+pdelvo> yes I am
23:09 < dx> http://dav1d.de/ -> 403, http://www.dav1d.de/ -> 404
23:09 -!- Mediator [~fdfa@c-50-134-249-227.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit []
23:09 < dav1d> World: INFO: Thread "BraLa Tessellation Thread 1/3" already terminated
23:09 < dav1d> this is a bad sign
23:09 < dav1d> at least the first shouldn't be done by this time
23:10 < dav1d> pdelvo: thanks I'll look into it!
23:10 < dav1d> thanks for testing, too :)
23:10 <+pdelvo> no problem!
23:10 < dav1d> dx: yeah :P
23:10 < dav1d> wanna know why?
23:10 < dav1d> pdelvo: was it hard to setup?
23:10 < dav1d> (I mean compile it)
23:10 < dav1d> *compiling
23:10 <+pdelvo> installing the compiler and running some command line
23:10 <+pdelvo> not really
23:11 <+pdelvo> very easy (for me), but not for a normal user
23:11 < dav1d> dx: http://sprunge.us/DZLe :P
23:11 < dx> dav1d: looks like you have dynamic hosts at *.dav1d.de and the default host in dav1d.de, the dynamic ones don't exist at all and the default one is an empty dir
23:12 < dx> hah
23:12 < dx> bingo?
23:12 < dav1d> pdelvo: I was really trying to simplify everything, maybe I should have binary releases
23:12 < dav1d> dx: the subdomain is automatically rewritten as a static path/subdomain if that folder not exists, 404
23:13 <+pdelvo> to bring it to more people you should.
23:13 < dav1d> If I could only setup a crosscompiler :(
23:13 < dx> dav1d: is this the whole thing?
23:13 < dav1d> then I could automate that
23:13 < dav1d> dx: yes
23:13 < dav1d> nginx is so lovely
23:13 < dx> dav1d: indeed
23:14 < dav1d> wait
23:14 < dav1d> this looks broken
23:14 < dav1d> yeah
23:14 < dav1d> my shell subistuted it
23:14 < dav1d> root /home/dav1d/http/$subdomain/;
23:14 < dav1d> dx: ^
23:15 <+pdelvo> the microsoft version of vhosts are cool to. http://pdelvo.de/ is hosted in iis, http://wiki.pdelvo.de/ is hosted in a application Ive written, and both are sharing the socket
23:15 < dx> dav1d: oooh that makes more sense
23:15 < dav1d> pdelvo: btw. is this location which crashes at spawn?
23:15 < dav1d> pdelvo: this wiki looks fucking good!
23:16 <+pdelvo> it feels like it renders the first packet of chunks, then it crashes somehow and dont render them any longer
23:16 <+pdelvo> thanks :D
23:16 < dav1d> pdelvo: scrollspy!
23:16 < dav1d> for the packet list on the left
23:16 <+pdelvo> it has a diff view in it! :D http://wiki.pdelvo.de/Protocol@master...pre
23:16 < dav1d> pdelvo: http://twitter.github.io/bootstrap/javascript.html#scrollspy
23:17 < dav1d> that's cool
23:17 <+pdelvo> I see
23:17 < dav1d> well like the bootstrap site I linked has the menu on the left
23:18 < dav1d> while you scroll the acitive point are highlighted
23:18 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 3 commits to refactoring [+417/-417/±28] http://git.io/JTLXDQ
23:18 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn d59e9ad - Moving data types around
23:18 < dav1d> s/are/is/
23:18 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 2b564c5 - Move Craft.Net.Data and switch to fNbt fork
23:18 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn d1b3a7c - Moved data types into Craft.Net.Data, fixed build errors in Craft.Net.World
23:18 <+pdelvo> You can send me a pull request if you want :D https://github.com/pdelvo/McDevsWiki/tree/template
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23:20 < dav1d> maybe :P
23:21 <+pdelvo> I should continue working on that. I stoped when I could not find a good looking way to do a version list for a file. looked like crap
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23:24 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to refactoring [+10/-389/±6] http://git.io/pWX_OA
23:24 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 7efff97 - Rename Craft.Net -> Craft.Net.Networking
23:26 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to refactoring [+0/-0/±11] http://git.io/T0M36w
23:26 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 62d5cba - Added temporary reduced build configuration for easier development
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23:35 < AnotherOne> hey people
23:35 < AnotherOne> do you know a dupe using hopper?
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23:36 < AnotherOne> damnit, on a pirated server i've just hacked two people
23:36 < AnotherOne> just writing /login his_private_region_name
23:37 <+Prf_Jakob> griefing and pirating is not welcome here, and exploits is only to be discussed as a means to developing fixes for them.
23:38 < dx> i was just reading the channel rules again to read what it said about exploits
23:39 < dx> but lol typing /login and guessing a password isn't an exploit (still covered by griefing)
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23:43 < AnotherOne> damnit, Prf_Jakob. griefing is what minecraft is created for
23:44 < AnotherOne> fighting the system. finding holes in security
23:44 < AnotherOne> much more fun than building dirt-boxes
23:45 < dx> if you're joking, make it clear and explicit
23:45 < AnotherOne> yes and no, actually
23:45 < AnotherOne> this game taught me to think like security auditor
23:45 < dx> it seriously gets hard to assume good faith if you're just saying directly that minecraft is meant for griefing
23:46 < |Blaze|> All of those things can be done against your own local client connected to a server withouth interupting other players
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23:50 < AnotherOne> i think griefing persons who are stupid enough not to protect their houses is ok
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--- Day changed mar. mai 28 2013
00:05 < AnotherOne> am i not banned yet?:)
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00:06 < dav1d> pdelvo: [23:07:01.087] Engine: INFO: Frame-Time: 0.248539 ms
00:06 < dav1d> holy fuck
00:07 < dav1d> ah wait
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00:07 < dav1d> that was during freeing
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00:45 < AnotherOne> hey dav1d
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03:32 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r1997 2 files : Added a toolstrip bar to "Generate" tab in AddWorldPopup for managing presets.
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03:44 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r1998 13 files : Moved all icons and images in ConfigGUI to a separate folder (Resources). Added icons for preset buttons.
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03:49 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r1999 2 files : Added a fallback nullity check to World.LoadMap in case of MapGenerator failure.
03:52 < TkTech> Matvei: Do you happen to still have the patches that mutilate your generate for infinite terrain?
03:52 <+Matvei> I do not
03:53 <+Matvei> I dont remember who made them
03:54 < TkTech> So much is lost to the wheels of time ;-(
03:55 <+Matvei> I've spent the last few days rewriting fCraft's map generation to be more modular
03:55 <+Matvei> I've got 4 modules (Flat, Realistic, Vanilla, Floating Islands) and an easy way to make more
03:56 <+Matvei> "Vanilla" produces 1:1 replica of Notch's original classic gen, which I've reverse engineered a while ago
03:56 <+Matvei> :D
03:57 < TkTech> I remember that, I think. I need my brain checked.
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04:15 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2000 11 files : Implemented "Save Preset" in AddWorldPopup, and tweaked IMapGenerator/IMapGeneratorParameter interfaces.
04:15 <+Matvei> Woohoo r2000. Party time.
04:15 < TkTech> Isn't that r9001?
04:16 <+Matvei> Well technically it's r2182 or something like that. I accidentally destroyed the old repo when I moved from SourceForce to MCCoalition, years ago.
04:17 < TkTech> I like to pretend those dark days didn't exist.
04:18 <+Matvei> I'm still pretty much in those days :p
04:20 < TkTech> Good point.
04:20 < TkTech> At Least It's Not CVS™
04:20 <+Matvei> heh heh
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04:35 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 3 commits to refactoring [+15/-1/±30] http://git.io/hEbbsQ
04:35 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn df965e3 - Fleshed out Section, adds support for Add array
04:35 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn de1baa6 - Added entity serialization to chunks
04:35 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 9d790f1 - Got Craft.Net.World working correctly
04:38 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to refactoring [+141/-138/±2] http://git.io/bW7M8A
04:38 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 0b32dee - Moved projects into subfolder
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05:08 <+Matvei> SirCmpwn is still banished, eh
05:08 <+Matvei> Alas
05:12 < Seegee> He told me he was banned over "silliness" xD
05:14 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2001 2 files : Restored statusStrip items in AddWorldPopup, which somehow got hidden by VS' designer.
05:15 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to refactoring [+0/-0/±8] http://git.io/1Zmo9w
05:15 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 7e81bae - Fixed bugs preventing Minecraft from loading Craft.Net.World worlds
05:15 <+Matvei> heh you could say that
05:19 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to refactoring [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/mtQWBA
05:19 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn ca3b2fc - Fixed Level.Load
05:20 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to refactoring [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/cWmGAA
05:20 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 659e4f5 - Update fNbt reference
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06:44 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2002 3 files : "Load Preset" button now fully functional in AddWorldPopup. Started on "Import Settings".
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07:15 < DemoXin> Could someone point me to where I can learn about how command blocks and chests and such are saved in the anvil format?
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07:29 <+pdelvo> these are tile entities
07:30 <+pdelvo> minecraft saves nbt data for each chunk column. http://wiki.vg/Map_Format#.5Bregion.5D.mca
07:30 <+pdelvo> there is a NBTList(TileEntities) where the tile entities are stored in
07:31 <+pdelvo> there is a list with tile entities and their properties: http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Alpha_Level_Format/Chunk_File_Format#Tile_Entity_Format
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07:38 < GreaseMonkey> quick q to jog my memory, suppose i have a C array called map[][][], which order would x,y,z go into [][][] for a minecraft CLASSIC map?
07:38 < GreaseMonkey> iirc y is up
07:39 < SinZ> Classic, aye..
07:39 < GreaseMonkey> ah fuck it i'll check the source for lc09
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07:40 < GreaseMonkey> ...which appears to use Z as up for some reason
07:40 < GreaseMonkey> what was i thinking
07:40 < GreaseMonkey> but yeah it appears to be map[y][z][x].
07:41 < SinZ> it doesn't really matter
07:41 < SinZ> as long as its same for reading and writing
07:41 < SinZ> and y is first as y is almost always smaller
07:42 <+AndrewPH> technically speaking it's arbitrary. they could be named a q t
07:42 <+AndrewPH> which would accurately describe u
07:42 < GreaseMonkey> a q t
07:42 < GreaseMonkey> i see what u did there
07:42 <+AndrewPH> <3
07:42 < GreaseMonkey> <3
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07:42 < GreaseMonkey> anyhow, coding this shit in erlang after giving up trying to port enet to erlang
07:43 < GreaseMonkey> but yeah, i'm the guy who released a free open source server and RAGEQUIT due to an instance of notch's trolling before custom servers were cool
07:43 <+AndrewPH> yep
07:43 <+AndrewPH> and the guy who is involved with, what was it, iceball?
07:43 <+AndrewPH> and 64px of course
07:43 < GreaseMonkey> yewah
07:43 < GreaseMonkey> i think by the time i came back... well, my server was so damn unknown that...
07:44 < GreaseMonkey> my server was called luacraft (i now refer to it as luacraft '09)
07:44 < GreaseMonkey> when i came back some other guys made a server called "luacraft"
07:44 < GreaseMonkey> ...after a kinda weird conversation i eventually got their code to kinda work on linux
07:44 < GreaseMonkey> but yeah, the APIs are very very different conceptually
07:45 < GreaseMonkey> tbqh, lc09 is really, really incomplete in the lua department
07:46 <+AndrewPH> yep
07:46 < AnotherOne> morning everyone
07:46 <+pdelvo> hi
07:46 <+AndrewPH> good morning
07:46 < GreaseMonkey> libv01 does have a luaside .dat map loader... oh by the way, fuck java serialised classes, just fuck that shit
07:46 < GreaseMonkey> 'lo
07:46 <+AndrewPH> right, I should go grab some jello and get my mythology presentation done
07:46 <+AndrewPH> or I could read hunger games
07:46 <+AndrewPH> hmm.
07:47 <+pdelvo> I could go back to sleep
07:48 < GreaseMonkey> and here i am, using an array:new() instead of a binary for the map data. go me.
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07:51 <+AndrewPH> so, how was everybody's day?
07:56 < dexter0> almost over :P
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08:13 <+SpaceManiac> Eyyy, I remember luacraft
08:13 <+SpaceManiac> fun stuff
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09:15 < Grum> GreaseMonkey: wait what notch trolled you? :D
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09:21 < luntik13> java sucks
09:22 < luntik13> my friend is in prison now because of it
09:22 < luntik13> don't use it, people
09:25 < jast> welcome back, person of many nicks
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09:31 < luntik13> jast: who are you?
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10:14  * dx reads up
10:14 < dx> oh damn Matvei == fragmer. i wouldn't have noticed if it wasn't for the comment on the commit log
10:15 < shoghicp> Anyone here has a Raspberry Pi?
10:16 < shoghicp> I would like to test some PHP binaries for PocketMine
10:17 < dx> shoghicp: i've got arch linux arm on my android (cortex a8 armv7), good enough?
10:18 < jast> I have an RPi, but it's not here
10:21 < shoghicp> dx: oh, you can test the Android binary itself
10:21 < shoghicp> https://sourceforge.net/projects/pocketmine/files/builds/
10:21 < dx> shoghicp: android binary? my condolences. life is much less painful with a sane libc
10:22 < shoghicp> dx: Tell that to Brandon15811 ;)
10:22 < shoghicp> I compiled the RPi one, it's pretty optimized
10:22 < shoghicp> the Android ine is generic
10:23 < dx> shoghicp: optimized against what, may i ask?
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10:23 < shoghicp> RPi proccessor + gcc optimizations
10:23 < shoghicp> Android one*
10:24 < dx> oh so ARMv6
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10:25 < shoghicp> dx: -O3 -march=armv6zk -mcpu=arm1176jzf-s -mtune=arm1176jzf-s -mfpu=vfp -mfloat-abi=hard
10:25 < dx> shoghicp: fun
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10:25 < dx> shoghicp: did you benchmark if it's worth it?
10:25 < shoghicp> yes
10:26 < shoghicp> startup (with map generation), from 160 seconds to 40
10:26 < dx> neat!
10:26 < shoghicp> gameplay without lag anymore
10:26 < jast> that's... quite a bit
10:27 < shoghicp> jast: and that was the optimized to RPi-like devices
10:27 < shoghicp> this one is even more specific ;)
10:27 < dx> i'm starting to think i should have just used gentoo in my android
10:28 < dx> just kidding i've tried to compile large packages like xorg and it takes hours while my pc does it in 10 mins.
10:28 < shoghicp> The RPi compiles everything needed for PocketMine in half an hour ;)
10:29 < shoghicp> but it does it silently, without overheating, 3.5W
10:29 < dx> heh
10:30 < dx> i'm definitely going to consider adding more CFLAGS for the stuff i compile in the future, though
10:31 < dx> shoghicp: anyway how do i test this? run php, figure out where pocketmine is, run pocketmine with it?
10:31 < shoghicp> http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1824584-pocketmine-mp-for-mobile-android-raspberry-pi-php-pre-compiled-binaries/
10:32 < shoghicp> you've to place it inside the pocketmine folder
10:32 < shoghicp> so: PocketMine_Folder/bin/php
10:32 < shoghicp> then, you should run it with "bin/php PocketMine-MP.php"
10:32 < shoghicp> being in that dir
10:33 < dx> gotcha
10:33 < shoghicp> (knowing the startup time the first time is the only thing that I need)
10:41 -!- nastyCreeper [~asd@static-71-174-73-11.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #mcdevs
10:46 < dx> shoghicp: errr what is the last message that indicates that it's done?
10:47 < dx> using Alpha_1.3.1dev
10:48 < shoghicp> It's like Bukkit
10:48 < shoghicp> (08:48:09 [INFO] Done (26.316s)! For help, type "help" or "?")
10:48 < dx> gotcha
10:50 < shoghicp> the world generation on mobile devices takes a lot
10:50 < shoghicp> specially the level population
10:50 < dx> "generating level" is absurdly fast (two seconds) and "populating level" has been stuck for four minutes already
10:50 < shoghicp> I've to improve it xD
10:50 < shoghicp> but, since I'm going to rewrite that part
10:50 < shoghicp> to a Normal generator
10:51 < dx> "absurdly" because it does have a progress indicator and seems to be the part that doesn't need it
10:51 < shoghicp> I can't measure that because it's a Random proccess
10:51 < dx> 08:51:50 [INFO] Done (350.926s)! For help, type "help" or "?"
10:51 < shoghicp> yay :D
10:51 < dx> at least it works
10:51 < shoghicp> now, do "stop"
10:51 < shoghicp> and start it again
10:51 < shoghicp> it should be pretty fast
10:51 < dx> *should*
10:52 < nastyCreeper> what are you talking about
10:52 < shoghicp> nastyCreeper: PocketMine-MP pre-compiled PHP binaries for Android
10:52 < dx> "internal ticker calculation" = not trusting the OS clock? :D
10:52 < shoghicp> dx: that is for the event system
10:52 < shoghicp> it calculates how many PHP ticks should pass before ticking the ticker xD
10:53 < dx> php ticks... i don't like how that sounds
10:53 < shoghicp> so faster devices behaves better
10:53 < shoghicp> and older computers runs faster
10:53 < shoghicp> run*
10:54 < dx> 08:52:28 [INFO] Starting internal ticker calculation
10:54 < dx> 08:54:23 [INFO] Default game type: SURVIVAL
10:54 < dx> 08:54:23 [INFO] Done (118.234s)! For help, type "help" or "?"
10:54 < dx> the previous time took 8 seconds
10:54 < shoghicp> omg
10:54 < shoghicp> that is pretty slow
10:55 < shoghicp> I should check that part
10:55 < dx> 08:55:35 [INFO] Done (14.171s)! For help, type "help" or "?"
10:55 < shoghicp> On a computer, without the tick calculation, it takes 0.5 seconds
10:55 < dx> shoghicp: is this a normal php binary, or compiled with extra modules?
10:56 < shoghicp> dx: compiled with the minimal amount of modules required
10:56 < shoghicp> besides PHP internal ones
10:56 < dx> shoghicp: i'll try the worldgen step with the arch linux armv7 binary then
10:57 < shoghicp> It has cURL, pthreads, libevent (on specific devices), zlib
10:57 < shoghicp> dx: https://github.com/PocketMine/PocketMine-MP/blob/master/src/build/compile.sh
10:57 < shoghicp> example: march=armv6zk mcpu=arm1176jzf-s mtune=arm1176jzf-s mfpu=vfp CFLAGS="-mfloat-abi=hard" ./src/build/compile.sh
10:58 < shoghicp> there are a few env. variables that can be passed
10:58 < dx> that could work too! i'll test that after the semi-generic armv7
10:59 < dx> also note that android is awful and some shit happens in background even when the screen is off
10:59 < shoghicp> also, you can pass the THREADS env. var to set compile threads
11:00 < dx> if you want a slightly more scientific benchmark i can kill zygote (the service that spawns the android OS) and test without it
11:00 < shoghicp> don't worry ;)
11:00 < shoghicp> users aren't going to do that
11:00 < dx> it does help testing optimization differences
11:01 < shoghicp> if there is something in that, you'll note it on the world generation step
11:01 < dx> ...why is the next step slow, then?
11:01 < shoghicp> that is the level population (part of level generation)
11:03 < dx> but is the length of that step "fixed"?
11:03 < shoghicp> no
11:03 < shoghicp> it is semi-fixed
11:04 < shoghicp> the length of that step depends on the seed
11:04 < dx> oh
11:04 < dx> can i pass a seed as parameter somehow, then?
11:04 < shoghicp> in a modern computer, it takes from 3 seconds to 8 seconds
11:04 < shoghicp> dx: you can specify it on the server.properties
11:04 < shoghicp> set seed 0
11:04 < dx> awesome.
11:05 < shoghicp> Oh, just fixed the compile line for the RPi
11:05 < shoghicp> march=armv6zk mcpu=arm1176jzf-s mtune=arm1176jzf-s CFLAGS="-mfloat-abi=hard -mfpu=vfp" ./src/build/compile.sh
11:06 < shoghicp> dx: anyways, that is a generic build, so multiple devices can run it
11:07 < shoghicp> so having a device-specific binary for Android is not a goal
11:07 < shoghicp> because... Android build proccess
11:07 < dx> yeah
11:07 < dx> still curious
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11:11 < shoghicp> dx: the compilation proccess takes about 5 minutes in a pretty good server, only using one thread
11:11 < shoghicp> *useful info*
11:12 < dx> "pretty good server"
11:12 < dx> i have a cross compilation toolkit... that i used for my kernel. no idea if it links against bionic properly.
11:13 < shoghicp> oh, you'll get some weird errors during cross compilation
11:13 < dx> hm?
11:13 < shoghicp> PHP disables pthreads
11:13 < dx> fun
11:13 < shoghicp> so you've to edit the configure script
11:14 < shoghicp> if you want to continue, check in PHP's configure (after buildconf) for "pthreads_working=no"
11:15 < shoghicp> also, you can do tail -f install.log to check... logs
11:15 < dx> how unexpected
11:16 < shoghicp> *[New Ticket] Hey! the compilation failed. [/End]*
11:16 < shoghicp> no logs
11:16 < shoghicp> no info
11:16 < shoghicp> xD
11:17 < dx> futari / # stop zygote
11:17 < dx> rip.
11:17 < dx> looks like a dead phone, i think i can't even use the power button, but i'm still connected
11:18 < dx> also +150mb of ram more than usual
11:18 < shoghicp> woo
11:20 < shoghicp> dx: thanks for everything ;)
11:21 < dx> shoghicp: i'm not doing this for you, i'm doing this to reassure myself that my phone doesn't suck as much as the raspberry pi
11:21 < dx> (just kidding it's for both things)
11:21 < dx> 09:21:28 [INFO] Done (124.113s)! For help, type "help" or "?"
11:21 < shoghicp> :D
11:21 < dx> first worldgen with generic php binary, seed=0
11:22 < dx> 09:23:14 [INFO] Done (7.027s)! For help, type "help" or "?"
11:22 < dx> second startup of same server
11:23 < Calinou> dat erlang server
11:23 < dx> Calinou: lol?
11:23 < Calinou> errrrrlang
11:24 < dx> i don't know if you're implying anything but i don't like it
11:24 < nastyCreeper> why do you develop a server in erlang dx?
11:24 < dx> what
11:24 < nastyCreeper> [**:23] <Calinou> dat erlang server
11:25 < dx> lol censored timestamp.
11:25 < nastyCreeper> hm, strange
11:25 < nastyCreeper> it copies it to clipboard that way
11:25 < dx> maybe it's your password
11:25 < dx> it happens to mine too, hunter2
11:25 < nastyCreeper> lol
11:25 < dx> everybody tells me that shows up as ******
11:26 < jast> it does show up as *******
11:26 < dx> anyway
11:26 < shoghicp> dx: uh, good load times :D
11:27 < nastyCreeper> do you actually generate the whole world at once?
11:27 < dx> nastyCreeper: 1. i don't develop a server in erlang, 2. the only guy who develops a server in erlang here isn't around ATM. 3. i have no idea why Calinou said that
11:27 < nastyCreeper> dx: can you prove you don't develop in erlang somehow?
11:27 < nastyCreeper> anybody can say that
11:27 < dx> ..
11:28 < dx> i have to prove that i don't write code in a language that i haven't even bothered finishing the tutorial
11:28 < dx> got it
11:28 < shoghicp> nastyCreeper: the world is generated all at once, because the world is 256x128x256
11:28 < nastyCreeper> bringing another unproven statement ("i haven't even bothered finishing the tutorial") is not a proof
11:29 < nastyCreeper> shoghicp: oh god, why?
11:29 < shoghicp> but I've to improve the tallgrass populating algorithm xD
11:29 < dx> nastyCreeper: pocket minecraft
11:29 < shoghicp> nastyCreeper: Minecraft PE
11:29 < nastyCreeper> is it protocol limitation?
11:29 < shoghicp> yes
11:29 < nastyCreeper> =[
11:29 < shoghicp> but the server allows maps up to 512x256x512
11:29 < nastyCreeper> why not just implement normal minecraft for android?
11:29 < SinZ> because then there will be no clients for it
11:30 < nastyCreeper> why?
11:30 < dx> i could create a 512mb swap partition, install java, render minecraft with dri_swrast
11:31 < dx> (llvmpipe, the fastest software renderer, doesn't even work on ARM yet)
11:31 < SinZ> writing a pocket edition server, and using normal minecraft kinda ruins the purpose, as no android devices could connect
11:31 < dx> should i do it y/n?
11:31 < nastyCreeper> dx: n
11:31 < nastyCreeper> use good language
11:31 < dx> nastyCreeper: no_fun
11:31 < shoghicp> dx: n
11:31 < shoghicp> xD
11:31 < dx> shoghicp: no_fun
11:31 < nastyCreeper> dx: "why not just implement normal minecraft for android?" != "why not just implement java minecraft for android?"
11:31 < SinZ> Write it in brainfuck, that'll be fun
11:32 < dx> nastyCreeper: dude we told you that you're supposed to hide the fact that you're pbunny, and i'm not going to "use" java, i'm going to use the existing java client because it's the only one that is complete and stable
11:32 < nastyCreeper> dx: i'm not pbunny, but it isn't wise to code minecraft client for android in java
11:32 < dx> what part of "i'm going to use the existing java client" isn't clear
11:32 < nastyCreeper> dx: well i advised to "implement" a client, which means - develop it
11:32 < nastyCreeper> not use existing one
11:33 < nastyCreeper> dx: you can't just use existing pc minecraft client on android
11:33 < dx> by the way, did you know that all android userspace applications except a few daemons are written in java?
11:33 < nastyCreeper> dx: but java isn't requirement there
11:33 < shoghicp> nastyCreeper: create a Bukkit plugin  to allow PE clients connect PC servers
11:33 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2003 2 files : Implemented FloatingIslandMapGen, mostly
11:33 < nastyCreeper> shoghicp lol
11:33 < SinZ> shoghicp: that would be awkward, as pocket doesn't have auth servers, PC does
11:33 < dx> shoghicp: hm, writing it as a bukkit plugin sounds interesting! i always thought about standalone proxies
11:33 < nastyCreeper> i would bury PE at all
11:33 < shoghicp> SinZ: they will in 0.7.0
11:34 < nastyCreeper> instead of adding limitations, mojang should have added optimisations
11:34 < shoghicp> I'm doing a PocketMine plugin to allow PC clients connect PE servers
11:34 < shoghicp> and at least, the clients connects
11:34 < shoghicp> and can chat
11:34 < shoghicp> client*
11:35 < shoghicp> I got Query and RCOn working there ;)
11:35 < dx> meh, i actually want to see how far my Xorg on android project can go. i'll do it. disregard the police.
11:35 < shoghicp> and a IRC client to join channels / PE servers
11:36 < shoghicp> dx: so, is the compilation done?
11:36 < dx> shoghicp: WHOOPS I FORGOT
11:36 < shoghicp> xD xD xD
11:39 < dx> it would be really cool to actually understand the display initialization process
11:39 < shoghicp> ç'
11:39 < shoghicp> ?
11:39 < shoghicp> everything that is said in the console?
11:39 < dx> nah talking about android :P
11:40 < shoghicp> ah!
11:40 < dx> it's a weird world after you kill zygote
11:40 < shoghicp> (It's pretty similar to Minecraft PC output, anyways)
11:40 < dx> yep, i noticed
11:41 < dx> shoghicp: also, do you kill yourself or what?
11:42 < dx> shoghicp: every time i run "stop" it shows a message that says "Killed" that looks exactly the same as when a process receives SIGKILL (-9)
11:42 < shoghicp> dx: I've to do it because if you close everything using an external command (not the server console) the STDIN thread will hang there
11:42 < dx> shoghicp: lol that sucks
11:43 < dx> shoghicp: SIGTERM didn't work?
11:43 < shoghicp> after closing everything on a signal
11:43 < shoghicp> I kill myself
11:43 < dx> rip
11:43 < shoghicp> so the thread closes correctly even if it is running
11:43 < shoghicp> kill(getmypid()); //Fix for ConsoleAPI being blocked
11:44 < dx> okay, so now we have a documented case in which PHP actually forced someone to kill themselves
11:44 < shoghicp> kill -9 ".((int) $pid)." > /dev/null 2>&1
11:45 < shoghicp> I got it fixed long ago
11:45 < dx> "fixed"?
11:45 < shoghicp> but then, I implemented RCON
11:45 < shoghicp> allowing to run commands
11:45 < dx> and that blocks stdin somehow..?
11:45 < shoghicp> so... no true STDIN
11:45 < dx> welp.
11:45 < shoghicp> so the loops keep blocked
11:45 < shoghicp> loop*
11:46 < shoghicp> PHP stdin is not async.
11:46 < dx> why does rcon have to go through stdin?
11:46 < shoghicp> no!
11:46 < dx> oh no!
11:46 < shoghicp> It is because nothing goues through STDIN
11:46 < shoghicp> so it can't be unblocked
11:46 < shoghicp> goes*
11:47 < dx> err.. what was the "fix"? how do you unblock stdin
11:47 < shoghicp> I crashed the thread
11:47 < shoghicp> xD
11:47 < shoghicp> using a bug
11:47 < dx> so pro
11:47 < shoghicp> but now the bug is fixed
11:48 < shoghicp> the thread itself is a PHP hack xD
11:48 < dx> so uhm
11:48 < dx> do you enjoy using this language?
11:48 < SinZ> php is fun
11:49 < shoghicp> before I had two PHP processes open, one reading from STDIn and writing to a file, and the main one reading from the file
11:49 < shoghicp> that was really weird, more than this
11:51 < GreaseMonkey> [19:15:03] <Grum> GreaseMonkey: wait what notch trolled you? :D <-- actually that was when he decided to troll christianu2uber after i was pissed off at the dipshits constantly posting "homo"
11:52 < dx> wat
11:56 < shoghicp> oh, the RPi is ending the compilation :D
11:57 < dx> shoghicp: you've tried fclose(STDIN) right?
11:57 < GreaseMonkey> yuss, i now have my first working S->C packet
11:57 < shoghicp> dx: yeah, outside the script. But keeps blocked
11:57 < GreaseMonkey> 0x0E, "Does this work?"
11:57 < shoghicp> dx: outside the thread*
11:57 < dx> shoghicp: :(
12:01 < shoghicp> I'll be back in a while
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12:11 < Grum> GreaseMonkey: how on earth did notch troll someone? :D
12:12 -!- SimSonic [54ed4b42@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.237.75.66] has joined #mcdevs
12:12 <+md_5> I think his latest tweet about board meetings just confirms our thoughts about mojang
12:13 < Grum> md_5: nothing decided in boardmeetings influences minecraft dev however :)
12:14 <+md_5> Who mentioned Minecraft?
12:15 < Grum> the channelname :(
12:15 < dx> i went to notch's twitter just to check if the board meetings were about the correct pronunciation of the word "mojang"
12:15 < Grum> hmmm i think there was a meeting for that once ;p
12:15 < dx> lol
12:15 <+md_5> Mow jang
12:15 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
12:16 <+md_5> Mow Jiang
12:16 < Grum> MOOjenk
12:16 < dx> moo yank
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12:18 < dx> i don't understand android
12:18 < dx> i ran a full system upgrade and it has been for the last three minutes downloading packages with 0 bytes free in that partition
12:19 < dx> i know they've made a lot of weird decisions with the kernel patches, but how does this even happen
12:19 < jast> downloading into RAM?
12:20 < Grum> into /tmp ?
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12:20 <+md_5> Into/Dev/null?
12:20 < dx> /dev/null makes sense
12:20 < mh0> /tmp is on the actual storage device, Grum :P
12:20 < dx> i could have put it on a tmpfs, but it's not
12:21 < Grum> mh0: seem it mapped to ram too :)
12:22 < mh0> I guess you could map it to RAM, I don't know why some linux distributions wouldn't
12:22 < dx> tmpfs means mapped to ram, it's the default usually
12:23 -!- SimSonic [54ed4b42@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.237.75.66] has joined #mcdevs
12:23 < mh0> 9.6M	~/dev
12:23 < mh0> I need to do more developing
12:23 < mh0> :P
12:24 < mh0> I probably will once I get more RAM
12:25 < nastyCreeper> tmpfs is not always mounted in /tmp
12:25 < nastyCreeper> it depends on system configuration
12:25 < dx> 102968832 bytes (103 MB) copied, 147.333 s, 699 kB/s
12:25 < dx> when it ran out of space
12:25 < dx> 143624704 bytes (144 MB) copied, 204.929 s, 701 kB/s
12:25 < dx> now
12:25 < dx> doing dd if=/dev/urandom of=/root/random
12:26 < mh0> I really need to consider updating some of my plugins to make them better :P
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12:27 < SimSonic_> Hello all
12:28 -!- SimSonic [54ed4b42@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.237.75.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
12:28 < SimSonic_> I want to ask for some help about minecraft's protocol encryption ...
12:28 < dx> there we go, no space left in device, "195248128 bytes (195 MB) copied, 299.898 s, 651 kB/s"
12:30 < dx> the file seems to be effectively 195248128 bytes long, but after removing "df" says i have 90mb left...
12:30 < dx> SimSonic_: don't ask to ask just ask
12:31 < SimSonic_> I use MS's Cryptography API and create RSA keypair with BCryptGenerateKeyPair / BCryptExportKey and CryptEncodeObjectEx(X509_ASN_ENCODING, CNG_RSA_PUBLIC_KEY_BLOB, &PublicKeyBLOB, 0, NULL, Buffer, &dwBufferLen) to create ASN.1 x.509 form.
12:32 < SimSonic_> In result I have 140 bytes which I send to client in Encryption Key Request (0xFD)
12:33 < SimSonic_> But the client immediately goes in Null Pointer Exception
12:34 < SimSonic_> Token bytes are constantly "1251", token length is set to 4, serverid string is set to other random constant L"e85642ade9";
12:34 < nastyCreeper> SimSonic_: i think it's because m$ is evil
12:35 < dav1d> SimSonic_: just ignore him
12:35 < dx> nastyCreeper: behave.
12:35 < nastyCreeper> dav1d: i was unable to do many project on windows
12:35 < nastyCreeper> encountered tons of weird, undebuggable bugs
12:35 < nastyCreeper> then i switched to freebsd and everything compiled and ran flawlessly
12:35 < SimSonic_> all the bugs are the result of our hands )
12:36 < dav1d> ^
12:36 < nastyCreeper> SimSonic_ that's pessimistic
12:36 < Grum> poor guy who works with his feet :(
12:36 < mh0> nastyCreeper: Windows is fine. User Error.
12:36 < nastyCreeper> :(
12:37 < mh0> Most things are user error.
12:37 < mh0> Some things are legit bugs
12:37 < mh0> (Nothing's perfect)
12:37 < nastyCreeper> mh0: windows intentionally makes programming more complicated (unless you use their visual shitudio)
12:37 < Grum> but people claim that VS is the best IDE on the planet
12:37 < dx> er, let's not change topic, we're supposed to help SimSonic_ with his legitimate issue, not talk about this bullshit
12:38 < nastyCreeper> Grum: these are m$ zombies
12:38 < mh0> I used VS once
12:38 < nastyCreeper> they probably never used anything else
12:38 < mh0> it was terrible
12:38 < nastyCreeper> ++
12:38 < dx> i have no idea about protocol encryption so i can't help, but at least let's let people who know how to help see the issue
12:38 < SimSonic_> okay, I'm ms-zombie, but I want to continue my work )
12:38 < Grum> i used eclipse ... it was also terrible :P
12:38 < nastyCreeper> SimSonic_: you don't
12:38 < mh0> Grum: Hey man. I use Eclipse :p
12:38 < dav1d> SimSonic_: does it have to be the ms crpyto api?
12:38 < Grum> mh0: you should upgrade to intellij :P
12:39  * dx cough
12:39 < dx> "Off topic chatter is perfectly fine so long as you are not interrupting on-topic conversation"
12:39 < mh0> eclipse is a cool guy
12:39 < dav1d> SimSonic_: there are guides on how to do it with e.g. openssl
12:39 < Grum> oh, you should use intellij for minecraft development
12:39 < Grum> ontopic again!
12:39 < SimSonic_> dav1d, yes, CNG for keypair generation and CryptAPI for making ASN.1 form
12:40 < dav1d> SimSonic_: then I can't help, I have no idea of that api
12:40 < Grum> SimSonic_: is it me or am I failing to see where you define the length of the requested key?
12:40 < SimSonic_> I think that i have wrong form, because of my public key is 140 bytes long, but connection to bukkit gives 164 bytes =\
12:40 < SimSonic_> 1. BCryptOpenAlgorithmProvider(&(Data.hProviderRSA), BCRYPT_RSA_ALGORITHM, MS_PRIMITIVE_PROVIDER, 0);
12:40 < SimSonic_> 2. BCryptGenerateKeyPair(Data.hProviderRSA, &(Data.hKeyPairRSA), 1024, 0);
12:41 < SimSonic_> 3. BCryptFinalizeKeyPair(Data.hKeyPairRSA, 0);
12:41 < SimSonic_> 4. BCryptExportKey(Data.hKeyPairRSA, NULL, BCRYPT_RSAPUBLIC_BLOB, PublicKeyBuffer, uBufferLen, &uBufferLen, 0);
12:41 < SimSonic_> and 5. CryptEncodeObjectEx(X509_ASN_ENCODING, CNG_RSA_PUBLIC_KEY_BLOB, &PublicKeyBLOB, 0, NULL, Buffer, &dwBufferLen)
12:41 < mh0> Grum: I'll give it a try - now... for something more on-topic
12:41 < Grum> i guess you are playing the server?
12:41 < dx> 6. GOTO 1
12:41 < nastyCreeper> just use cygwin and openssl =(
12:41 <+Fador> I had to use some magic numbers to get minecraft accept the key I generated with openssl ;)
12:41 <+Fador> https://github.com/fador/mineserver/blob/master/src/mineserver.cpp#L315
12:41 < mh0> I have no idea how the encrypting works, man :P
12:41 < dav1d> you don't need cygwin for openssl -.-
12:41 < HaltingState> Prf_Jakob, I am liking D more and more; I started a small C# project, lulz
12:41 < dav1d> HaltingState: how does that make sense?^^
12:42 < HaltingState> monogame and all this crap; have made be reconsider D
12:42 < dav1d> another misinformation provided happily by nastyCreeper 
12:42 < dx> Fador: i'll ask: what's "jesus tape"?
12:42 < HaltingState> 0.9 seconsd to compile hello world/opengl and 2 second startup time
12:42 < HaltingState> cant compile from command line etc
12:43 <+Fador> dx: oh right, it's a thing in Finland to call duct tape "jesus tape"
12:43 < dx> Fador: is it stronger than normal duct tape because it uses the power of miracles?
12:43 < nastyCreeper> dav1d: you need cygwin for sane compilation
12:43 < dav1d> nastyCreeper: wtf
12:43 <+Fador> dx: ...sure ;D
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12:44 < nastyCreeper> dav1d: you can use gcc in cygwin
12:44 < dav1d> lol
12:44 < dav1d> so that's your reason
12:44 < dav1d> did you even audit gcc?
12:44 < dav1d> I mean it could produce unsecure code
12:44 < nastyCreeper> gcc compared to m$ visual shitudio is like sasha grey compared to dead corpse of fat ugly lady
12:45 <+Fador> and with what are you going to compile the gcc after auditing it!
12:45 < dx> i'm sorry but gcc isn't into penises.
12:45 < nastyCreeper> Fador: i trust gcc devs
12:45 <+Fador> you cannot trust the binary gcc you're compiling it with!
12:45 < nastyCreeper> Fador: don't be ridiculous
12:45 < nastyCreeper> gcc is okay :)
12:45 <+Fador> ;)
12:45 < dav1d> holy shit
12:46 < dx> SimSonic_: anyway, it's going to be hard to find someone familiar with crypto api here, it seems. openssl is very feasible to use in windows based projects though.
12:46 < dx> *with THAT crypto api
12:46 < dx> sorry
12:46 < dav1d> openssl is a pain though
12:46 < dav1d> but people already figured it out
12:46 < jast> I liked libgcrypt when I used it
12:47 < nastyCreeper> SimSonic_: i can help you as soon as you switch to sane compilation environment and libraries
12:47 < nastyCreeper> done thousands of such softwares
12:47 < jast> of course you have
12:47 < shoghicp> back
12:47 < dx> we're going to need confirmation that these """softwares""" are sane, though
12:47 < shoghicp> dx: how is the compilation?
12:47 < nastyCreeper> jast: sadly, libgcrypt isn't enough for minecraft protocol encryption
12:48 < jast> back when I used libgcrypt it wasn't enough for my application, either
12:48 < dx> shoghicp: it's showing a wonderful line that says "[root@futari ~]#"
12:48 < shoghicp> oh xD
12:48 < jast> had to borrow PBKDF2 and XTS code from elsewhere
12:48 < shoghicp> that means that it failed
12:48 < jast> (the project wasn't minecraft-related)
12:49 < shoghicp> check the install.log
12:49 < dx> shoghicp: sorta, can't do anything yet because i have a mix of library versions
12:50 < dx> shoghicp: i mean i haven't even tried compiling because it's broken :P
12:50 < shoghicp> then, generic binary FTW
12:51 < dx> heh
12:51 < SimSonic_> Hmm, i found info close to my task: http://www.jensign.com/JavaScience/dotnet/JKeyNet/  See 162 and 140 bytes buffers )) going to read
12:52 < Thinkofdeath> SimSonic_: 162 bytes is the size it on mine
12:52 < nastyCreeper> i knew java and dotnet came from the same cauldron
12:53 < dx> shoghicp: i'll have to free some space/resize the partition and then do a full system upgrade (it's a minimal set of packages, shouldn't take long), so i'll tell you later
12:53 < Thinkofdeath> *of it
12:53 < shoghicp> I'm testing the world generation no with a new binary
12:53 < dx> shoghicp: rpi?
12:53 < shoghicp> yeah
12:54 < SimSonic_> Thinkofdeath, yes, i know it, but my code produces 140 bytes...
12:54 < dx> shoghicp: was it ignoring a few cflags before?
12:54 < shoghicp> I was giving some flags incorrectly
12:54 < dx> right
12:55 < dx> vroom vroom cflags just kicked in yo
12:55 < shoghicp> mcpu, march, mtune are right
12:55 < shoghicp> but mfpu should be inside CFLAGS
12:56 < shoghicp> (a part of the compile script test flags, cflags + more)
12:56 < shoghicp> 10:56:31 [INFO] Done (146.734s)! For help, type "help" or "?"
12:56 < shoghicp> seed 0
12:57 < dx> did you try seed 0 with the previous binary?
12:57 < shoghicp> ~160s
12:57 < shoghicp> now, loading just 14s
12:57 < dx> neat
12:57 < nastyCreeper> anybody implemented time travelling on their server?
12:57 < dx> like mystcraft?
12:58 < shoghicp> (The raspberry is a server for the global anonymous stats, so it is at 90% cpu always)
12:58 < nastyCreeper> i.e. player goes to timeshift area, then comes out 100000 ticks before the current time
12:58 < dav1d> shoghicp: your mpe server?
12:58 < nastyCreeper> and current time is then influented by his actions there
12:58 < nastyCreeper> is it possible at all?
12:58 < shoghicp> dav1d: yes, there are usage stats. one of my RPi is the stats server
12:59 < dav1d> weren't you banned pbunny?
12:59 < dav1d> shoghicp: neat
12:59 < jast> yes
12:59 < nastyCreeper> you are pbunny dav1d
12:59 < jast> but the ban for this alias was temporary for some reason
12:59 < dx> shoghicp: you mean it's taking 140 seconds because another process is using 90% cpu? :(
12:59 < dav1d> I should buy myself a rpi
12:59 < nastyCreeper> jast: please don't believe trolls. thanks
12:59 < shoghicp> dx: Right, but i won't stop it ;)
12:59 < dav1d> jast: jo dawg I trolled ya!
12:59 <+ammar2> nastyCreeper: sure but if you want real time travel you'll need to keep snapshots of everything from ticks ago
12:59 < dx> shoghicp: you're so mean :(
13:00 < nastyCreeper> ammar2: maybe only several snapshots
13:00 < nastyCreeper> if arbitrary time travel destination is not necessity
13:00 < shoghicp> http://stats.pocketmine.net/
13:00 < dx> shoghicp: for a while i thought my phone was better than the rpi, but my phone is completely idle ;_;
13:00 < shoghicp> My tablet is better than the RPi ;)
13:01 < dx> it's not hard to be better than the rpi
13:01 < dx> yet i'm failing
13:01 < dx> ;_;
13:02 < shoghicp> and now... PHP 5.5
13:02 < nastyCreeper> ammar2: the major problem will be synchonising players that exist in different time slices
13:02 < dx> shoghicp: fun!
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13:02 < shoghicp> It runs ~10% faster ;)
13:02 < dx> ammar2: copy on write worlds? :D
13:03 < nastyCreeper> imagine the scenario: 1) player X built house 2) player X built a mine under it 3) 3 days have passed 4) player Z enters time sink and gets to the world as it was 3 days ago 5) player Z kills player X while the latter is building his house
13:03 <+ammar2> well you can't do "changing the time" scenarios
13:03 < nastyCreeper> obviously the outcome after 3 days will be quite different for player Z
13:03 < dx> anything with copy on write is instantly 10% cooler
13:03 < nastyCreeper> and as player Z's client perceives the current time.. how to pass the changes to it?
13:04 <+ammar2> unless of course you've actually invented real time travel
13:04 < nastyCreeper> lol
13:04 < shoghicp> dx: my tests tell me that it is 9.8735% faster
13:04 < dx> shoghicp: neat!
13:04 < dx> shoghicp: compile all the things!
13:04 < shoghicp> that is ~10%, right xD?
13:04 <+md_5> I did
13:05 <+md_5> You need powered opal and the preserved head of a president
13:05 < nastyCreeper> ammar2: well i thought that in case of something changed in the past, players' behavior there will be simulated (they acted as npc) if somebody influented the changes in it (i.e. unexpected death)
13:05 < nastyCreeper> and actual players will just get sudden world / location changes
13:05 < SimSonic_> Hah, I've done it. Just add first 12 bytes :) UI8 Addon[] = { 0x30, 0x81, 0x9F, 0x30, 0x0D, 0x06, 0x09, 0x2A, 0x86, 0x48, 0x86, 0xF7, 0x0D, 0x01, 0x01, 0x01, 0x05, 0x00, 0x03, 0x81, 0x8D, 0x00 };
13:05 < nastyCreeper> if they were caused by something in the past
13:06 < dx> SimSonic_: i don't know what this means but congratulations :D
13:06 < SimSonic_> Client is connecting without errors ... okay, it's time for AES/CFB8 ...
13:06 <+ammar2> nastyCreeper: way, way too much stuff to consider. It sound simple in theory now but try writing an implementation
13:07 < nastyCreeper> thought of anything impossible?
13:07 <+ammar2> user goes back in time and blocks off the place he used to time travel
13:07 < Grum> user goes back in time and kills himself?
13:08 < nastyCreeper> ammar2: then he is returned to current world
13:08 < nastyCreeper> and place is no more :p
13:08 < nastyCreeper> or, easier - make such places indestructable
13:08 < dav1d> SimSonic_: they are always the same?
13:08 < Grum> nastyCreeper: its next to impossible to make the 'timeline' straight again
13:08 <+ammar2> nastyCreeper: goes back in time and dies, like Grum said
13:08 < nastyCreeper> Grum: you misunderstood the conception slightly
13:08 < dx> go beyond the impossible and kick reason to the curb
13:08 < nastyCreeper> if user goes into past, he isn't in current time anymore
13:08 < nastyCreeper> so if he kills himself there - he can respawn there
13:08 < nastyCreeper> nothing hard
13:09 < dx> (he already does the latter)
13:09 < Grum> i mean, you could just block the way a user walked to get where he is now .. that in theory should prevent him from having him do that in the first place
13:09 < SimSonic_> dav1d, yes, it's something like this structure in ASN.1:  SEQUENCE { 0238 30    D:       SEQUENCE { 023A 06    9:         OBJECT IDENTIFIER rsaEncryption (1 2 840 113549 1 1 1) 0245 05    0:         NULL             :         } 0247 03   8D:       BIT STRING 0 unused bits, encapsulates {
13:09 < SimSonic_> sorry )
13:09 < SimSonic_> just like header
13:09 < nastyCreeper> Grum: as i mentioned, there is no future-to-past mappings
13:09 <+md_5> What language is this?
13:09 < nastyCreeper> only past-to-future
13:09 <+md_5> C#?
13:09 < Grum> nastyCreeper: then what is the use? :?
13:09 < dx> cobol?
13:09 < nastyCreeper> which means - if user is already in the past, nothing can influence what he had done in 'current time'
13:10 < SimSonic_> +md_5, it's ASN.1 notation for public keys
13:10 < nastyCreeper> Grum: such user can influence the 'current time' of others
13:10 < Grum> except placing a block in the past also places a block in the future?
13:10 <+md_5> No
13:10 < nastyCreeper> because they still exist in current time
13:10 <+md_5> What language are you using
13:10 < SimSonic_> I use c++
13:10 < nastyCreeper> Grum: well, killing some miner in the past and taking all the minerals will make his armor disappear in current time
13:10 < nastyCreeper> something like that
13:11 < nastyCreeper> and probably position will change
13:12 < nastyCreeper> because he was simulated differently than he actually behaved since the change
13:13 < Grum> nastyCreeper: so what if you mine 3 iron, make a pick, then go back in time before you mined the 3 iron and mine them with that pick you just made
13:13 < nastyCreeper> the real issue though is correct simulation of players ( so that they won't act stupidly)
13:13 < nastyCreeper> Grum: infinite iron? :)
13:14 < nastyCreeper> hmm
13:14 <+md_5> This is the crazy pbunny talking
13:14 < nastyCreeper> Grum: well, as i said, once you travel into the past - you don't belong to current time anymore
13:14 < Grum> well, when you mine the last piece (or the first) your pick should vanish and then you suddenly havent mined it, so your pick reappears ;)
13:14 < nastyCreeper> and changes don't apply to you
13:14 < nastyCreeper> Grum: it would be so if you were influented by changes
13:14 < Grum> but otherwise its not fun? :P
13:15 < nastyCreeper> but as you aren't part of future (current) time anymore, they don't apply to you
13:15 < nastyCreeper> Grum: it is. you can influence everything else
13:15 < Grum> i mean, find diamond, mine it, go back in time, mine it, repeatus infinitus
13:15 <+ammar2> Grum: your pick is now a paradox, the server crashes ripping a hole in the space time continuum
13:15 < nastyCreeper> lol
13:15 < jast> the universe crashes
13:15 < Grum> just divide by 0!
13:15 < dav1d> Grum: NaN
13:15 < nastyCreeper> Grum: if time travelling ability will be limited somehow (i.e. cost lots of diamonds) this won't be the issue
13:16 < Grum> NaN/0!
13:16 < jast> don't know what to do? divide by zero. universe disappears. Problem Solved (tm)!
13:16 < dav1d> Grum: according to IEEE754
13:16 < dav1d> Grum: NaN!
13:16 < dav1d> you're stuck in NaN!
13:16 < Grum> NeiN!!!
13:17 < Grum> right, so if you know where someone is digging you can just put lava all around him?
13:18 < nastyCreeper> Grum: yes, but in that case he won't go there
13:18 < nastyCreeper> he will be simulated differently from what he was really doing
13:18 < nastyCreeper> so in current time, he will suddenly be teleported to somewhere else ( and maybe lose some minerals etc)
13:19 < nastyCreeper> actually, much can change
13:22 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2004 2 files : A few more improvements to FloatingIslandMapGen. Looking better!
13:22 < nastyCreeper> Grum: your pick paradox is easily solved by making player inventory non-time-travelable
13:23 < nastyCreeper> if he goes into past, he will have what he had in that past
13:26 < nastyCreeper> i hate the idea of simulation though, it may do something that players won't like
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13:45 < shoghicp> What is the Entity id for a Falling Sand entity?
13:45 < shoghicp> nvm
13:45 < shoghicp> Minecraft PE IDs are different
13:46 < dx> time for some hardcore reverse engineering!
13:46 < dx> i never bothered about minecraft PE because i could never legally buy it
13:47 < dx> and the demo hasn't been updated for a year
13:47 < shoghicp> oh, man, you reminded me that I had a MCPE dissector & extractor tool!
13:47 < dx> i even sent mojang a mail asking for an updated demo and possibly other methods to buy it, but no replies ever
13:47 < dx> shoghicp: fun!
13:47 < shoghicp> yay 0x42 FallingTile (Entity)
13:47 < dav1d> FailingTile
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15:50 < Thinkofdeath> Might as well put this here
15:50 < Thinkofdeath> https://gist.github.com/Dinnerbone/5662824 (Resource packs)
15:53 < TobiX> JSON!
15:56 < Grum> told you we'd be using json more
15:56 < Thinkofdeath> Will the resource packs be sendable from the server like texture packs are?
15:58 < Grum> perhaps
15:59 < Grum> probably
15:59 < Grum> but we'd have to figure out 'on what layer' to put them
15:59 < mbaxter> Next up, all packets replaced by a single packet which consists of a length and json data string. :D
15:59 < Grum> as you can have multiple packs
15:59 < Grum> mbaxter: you guys asked for length! there you have it!
15:59 < mbaxter> srsly
15:59 < mbaxter> instant solution!
15:59 <+pdelvo> or put the asserts in a big json file as data urls :D
15:59 < nastyCreeper> :[
16:00 < Grum> we'd just ship the encoded data in a json-container
16:01 < mbaxter> had an argument this month with someone who uses Packet250/FA to send json for key:value pairs.
16:01  * mbaxter sob
16:02 < Grum> seems like a good way to do it ;)
16:08 < nastyCreeper> so how do i display falling block?
16:09 < Thinkofdeath> http://wiki.vg/Protocol#0x17 with id of 70
16:09 < Thinkofdeath> *Type
16:10 < nastyCreeper> is it possible with any block type?
16:10 < nastyCreeper> i.e. portals flying around
16:11 < Thinkofdeath> Yep
16:12 < Thinkofdeath> Not sure if all of them look right though
16:13 <+pdelvo> coul a resource pack contain an animated moon?
16:15 < nastyCreeper> what is the client skin checking sequence?
16:15 < nastyCreeper> is it described anywhere?
16:16 <+pdelvo> sequence?
16:17 <+pdelvo> Download skin. Doesnt work? Use default
16:17 < nastyCreeper> download from where?
16:17 < nastyCreeper> what request is sent and what is received?
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16:19 < barneygale> nastyCreeper: you remind me more of pbunny every day
16:19 < nastyCreeper> barneygale: sorry for that
16:19 < nastyCreeper> can we drop 'remind pbunny' talks?
16:20 < barneygale> No, because banned users aren't allowed to come back on alt accounts.
16:20 < nastyCreeper> do you have evidence of me being pbunny?
16:20 <+pdelvo> http://s3.amazonaws.com/MinecraftSkins/pdelvo.png
16:20 < barneygale> everything you've said in this channel to date.
16:20 <+pdelvo> do a http get
16:20 < nastyCreeper> barneygale: this is not evidence. at court, everybody would laugh at you after such statement
16:21 < barneygale> From the moment you came in and complained about Java and OOP
16:21 < nastyCreeper> barneygale: similarity of views isn't evidence of being the same person
16:22 < nastyCreeper> barneygale: you'd be amazed of how many millions of people dislike java and oop
16:22 < barneygale> This channel is publicly logged? I'ma compile logs and hold a vote on the wiki.
16:22 < nastyCreeper> "compile logs"?
16:23 < barneygale> yes.
16:24 < nastyCreeper> to binary?
16:24 < barneygale> what?
16:24 < barneygale> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/compile
16:24 < nastyCreeper> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compiler
16:25 < barneygale> "To put together; to assemble; to make by gathering things from various sources."
16:25 < barneygale> I said "compile" not "compiler"
16:25 < nastyCreeper> good
16:25 < barneygale> good?
16:25 < nastyCreeper> now can you please tell me where are "various sources" within logs?
16:25 < barneygale> Are you really bringing me up on my use of the word "compile"? Are you a native speaker?
16:26 < nastyCreeper> yes
16:26 < barneygale> why?
16:27 < nastyCreeper> because i was born in english-speaking family
16:27 < barneygale> But hold on. When you first brought me up on it, your objection was that I was misapplying computer terminology
16:27 < barneygale> Why the change?
16:29 < nastyCreeper> because changes are unavoidable
16:30 < barneygale> hahahahahahahahaha
16:30 < barneygale> you're so full of shit
16:30 < barneygale> Here's another word you might not have heard before: www.wiktionary.org/wiki/contrarian
16:31 < jast> just drop it, it's going nowhere fast
16:31 < nastyCreeper> i agree
16:31 < jast> instead, petition for action to be taken
16:31 < jast> you've got my vote
16:31 < barneygale> jast: in progress.
16:34 < jast> fwiw it's completely irrelevant if he's pbunny, even though he clearly is.
16:35 < nastyCreeper> and you are clearly Avraam Lincoln
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16:42 < jast> yeah
16:42 < dx> "avraam"
16:42 < dx> sounds like a microcontroller subarchitecture
16:53 < TkTech> shoghicp: Dissector? As in Wireshark dissector?
16:53 < TkTech> (Don't you dare raise my hopes and dash them down)
16:55 < AlphaBlend> So whose for a real-time world that doesn't unload chunks people?
16:55  * AlphaBlend is seriously joking, just had to say this for laughs of his own want
16:58 < dx> unloading chunks is the greatest evil in this world
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17:00 < AlphaBlend> heh
17:00 < AlphaBlend> it's how it should be due to memory though
17:01 < AlphaBlend> if only it wasn't required, but since it is, not doing so is out of the question
17:01 < dx> bah
17:02 < dx> you're no fun AlphaBlend
17:02 < AlphaBlend> and for those people who want "real-time" it'll only get as close as non-moving blocks/entities that will simiulate "realtime"
17:02 < dx> what's this "real-time" thing?
17:02 < dx> "real-time day cycles"? "real-time latency scheduling"?
17:02 < AlphaBlend> i put 64 cobblestone and 8 coal in a furnace, and leave the area
17:03 < AlphaBlend> i come back after the time it takes the whole stack to be smelted, and it's all done
17:03 < AlphaBlend> that thing
17:03 < AlphaBlend> what i mean about realtime
17:03 < dx> oh lol
17:04 < AlphaBlend> only in this case due to unloading chunks, it's merely simulating it, because it has to rely on ticks to figure out where to next determine reality
17:04 < dx> what people normally solve with chunk loaders (there's even a block for that in one of those popular forge mods which i can't remember)
17:04 < AlphaBlend> hm
17:04 < jast> I suppose you could do trickery to simulate the passage of time in unloaded chunks for the most part
17:04 < AlphaBlend> not really trickery
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17:04 < TkTech> It's easy when everything is deterministic keyed off of time.
17:04 < jast> i.e. define a model for certain types of updates and simulate them much more quickly when the chunk goes back online
17:05 < jast> you don't want to have to actually simulate each of the 10 million ticks for which the chunk was unloaded, after all :)
17:05 < AlphaBlend> and it's not necessarily to do with chunks either, it's to do with all those blocks that make use of ticking to simulate time
17:05 < jast> sure, but it's still 10 million ticks, conceivably
17:07 < jast> I'd just ignore entities that are hard to simulate quickly (e.g. redstone) and then do a statistical estimation of what might have happened to other entities during the time they were gone, and go from there
17:07 < TkTech> For many things, like plant growth, it is extremely simple to make deterministic.
17:07 < AlphaBlend> hmm
17:07 < TkTech> For the given chunk state X, you know the proper state of the object at any point in time (t)
17:07 < jast> not deterministic, but easy to calculate
17:07 < AlphaBlend> i suppose then, it should be only applied to tile entities
17:08 < AlphaBlend> you don't want to simulate mobs moving around when chunks are unloaded ;p
17:08 < AlphaBlend> and then fast forward them when the chunk is loaded back
17:10 < dx> this reminds me of the nightmare that is limiting tile entity cpu usage on heavily modded servers
17:10 < dx> the crap people build with industrialcrap and other stuff gets so complex that there's no way to predict it to save cycles
17:11 < AlphaBlend> lol
17:11 < AlphaBlend> what i don't like, and this is on another note, how people build cramped mob farms
17:12 < dx> "cramped"?
17:12 < AlphaBlend> yes
17:12 < AlphaBlend> say you build a 8x8 area
17:12 < AlphaBlend> that has like 200 chickens in it
17:12 < AlphaBlend> the pathing smells >.<
17:12 < dx> oh, that kind of farms, not the ones that spawn using darkness
17:13 < AlphaBlend> we have multiple players that have these
17:13 < AlphaBlend> >.>
17:13 < nastyCreeper> why not just let chickens pass through each other
17:13 < dx> i think they do
17:13 < dx> lol
17:13 < AlphaBlend> well
17:13 < AlphaBlend> you can spawn 50 of them on a single block
17:13 < AlphaBlend> looks mad funny
17:13 < AlphaBlend> until they're disturbed, then they all spread out XD
17:14 < AlphaBlend> even more hilarious, spawn them up high in the air, and watch them descend all in the same location
17:15 < dx> not really related: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNw2YcAK9Wc
17:19 < AlphaBlend> YESSSSSSS
17:19 < nastyCreeper> any smooth way to alter gravity?
17:19 < AlphaBlend> CATTTTTTTTTTTSSSSSSSSSS
17:19 < nastyCreeper> i.e. make it pull player to side, too
17:19 -!- dexter0 [~dexter0@c-24-23-138-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: exit(0);]
17:19 < AlphaBlend> CAT FOUNTAIN, OMG
17:20 < AlphaBlend> dx: Great find!
17:20 < dx> :D
17:21 < AlphaBlend> anyways
17:21 < AlphaBlend> i enjoy talking about how minecraft could be, and how it could not be, always interesting
17:21 < dx> well, we can agree that minecraft needs more cat fountains
17:22 < AlphaBlend> if Notch were here, I'd tip my fedora and say, "Job well done! You did good, and now it's other people's hands."
17:22 < nastyCreeper> AlphaBlend: do you think time sinks are possible in minecraft
17:22 < nastyCreeper> ?
17:22 < AlphaBlend> going back in time? or jumping time to a certain place?
17:22 < nastyCreeper> going back
17:23 < nastyCreeper> in time
17:23 < nastyCreeper> server running multiple layers of time simultaneously
17:23 < dx> we also know that the cpu time involved in having several cat fountains in a server isn't nice, so i believe we need to add a packet to the protocol to start/stop a cat fountain
17:23 < dx> best idea ever y/y
17:23 < nastyCreeper> and older layers influence newer layers
17:23 < AlphaBlend> uhh, it's all possible if you remember state. How to remember state is completely up for debate, as it would require efficiency, but yes, I think it's possible
17:23 < AlphaBlend> lol dx
17:23 < nastyCreeper> AlphaBlend: how would you synchronize changes in the past with players from 'current time'
17:23 < nastyCreeper> ?
17:24 < AlphaBlend> good point
17:24 < nastyCreeper> i am thinking of simulating their actions in case of change related to them
17:25 < nastyCreeper> then just update their entity with results got in end of simulation
17:25 < AlphaBlend> Would you be in complete control of, say, your player entity being in both areas at the same time?
17:26 < nastyCreeper> i assume if the player went to past - he is no longer existant in present
17:26 < AlphaBlend> oh
17:26 < nastyCreeper> he becomes his old entity
17:26 < nastyCreeper> inventory won't time-travel, too
17:26 < AlphaBlend> this is not such a concept I can easily wrap around my head, as it requires multiple states of time
17:27 < nastyCreeper> hm, the good thing is - timeslice can be stopped as soon as all players leave it
17:28 < nastyCreeper> snapshots must be kept and taken though
17:29 -!- r04r is now known as r04r|away
17:30 < AlphaBlend> lol
17:30 < nastyCreeper> travelling to future seems easy if other parts are done
17:30 < nastyCreeper> present slice is just fast-forwarded to required time point, and the former present slice becomes past
17:31 < nastyCreeper> so other players remain in past after that
17:31 < AlphaBlend> either way
17:31 < AlphaBlend> since the present has to eventually catch up to where the future is
17:32 < AlphaBlend> the future would exist in its own state
17:32 < AlphaBlend> when the present catches up
17:32 < AlphaBlend> only
17:32 < nastyCreeper> that's why a synchronisation between past and future is needed
17:32 < nastyCreeper> i see it as following
17:33 < AlphaBlend> the present will never catch up to where the future is at a given time, meaning the present will be catching up to the past of the future at that time
17:33 < nastyCreeper> 1) user makes change in the past (i.e. digs block) 2) past slice is resimulated (applying different simulation to entities/... that the change was relevant to) 3) present time slice is instantly updated to end state of that simulation
17:33 < AlphaBlend> either way, just like the real-time world, I actually think this may require more memory on-board
17:34 < nastyCreeper> luckily, time slices can be easily split between cores and even physical servers
17:34 < nastyCreeper> they don't interact much
17:34 < nastyCreeper> and a separate server can be used just for fast-forwarding of time slices
17:35 < nastyCreeper> all it has to do is receive snapshot of start state, simulate it and return snapshot of end state
17:36 < AlphaBlend> physica servers?
17:36 < AlphaBlend> physical*
17:36 < AlphaBlend> oh wow, parallel processing XD
17:36 < nastyCreeper> parallel processing isn't actually needed
17:37 < nastyCreeper> as i said, time slices don't interact except when player gets transferred
17:37 < nastyCreeper> or past-to-future sync is done
17:38 < nastyCreeper> btw, http://wiki.vg/Ban_slanderers_on_mcdevs
17:39 -!- TRocket [~TRocket@82-69-14-167.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #mcdevs
17:43 < barneygale> hahahahaha
17:44 < barneygale> you're so funny pbunny
17:44 < nastyCreeper> see?
17:45 < edk> can you add me to that list please?
17:45 < AlphaBlend> ^
17:45 < nastyCreeper> it's a wiki, you can edit
17:45 < AlphaBlend> me too, because the future me will be bashing you
17:46 < nastyCreeper> lol
17:46 < nastyCreeper> future me added you
17:46 < edk> It says "I propose"
17:46 < AlphaBlend> i know it's you too pbunny
17:46 < edk> if I add stuff, it'll be a lie, since you didn't propose it
17:46 < nastyCreeper> i listed the ones with most issues
17:47 < nastyCreeper> anyway, i gtg for now
17:47  * nastyCreeper afk
17:47 -!- dexter0 [~dexter0@c-24-23-138-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #mcdevs
17:47 < edk> fine, i'll add myself
17:58 < dx> fuck
17:58 -!- mode/#mcdevs [+o TkTech] by ChanServ
17:58 < dx> i was going to add myself but the page is deleted :(
17:59 < AlphaBlend> anyways, gotta go
17:59 < AlphaBlend> it was fun #mcdevers
17:59 < AlphaBlend> #mcdevs people
17:59 < AlphaBlend> ;p
17:59 <+pdelvo> :)
18:03 < dx> TkTech: that @ hat looks beautiful on you
18:03 < shoghicp> ^ I was going to say that
18:03 < shoghicp> Besides, good work with Notifico, TkTech :D
18:03 < Yoshi2> some serious business is about to happen
18:04 -!- mode/#mcdevs [+b *!~asd@static-71-174-73-11.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] by TkTech
18:04 -!- nastyCreeper was kicked from #mcdevs by TkTech [Have a little timeout. I agree that several people in the channel have been very immature, but the constant for agitation has thus far been yourself. You'll be welcome back in the channel tomorrow.]
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18:04 < dx> we're immature? :(
18:05 <@TkTech> Yes, honestly I find it embarassing.
18:05 <+pdelvo> @TkTech I really dont want your job here :D
18:05 < shoghicp> TkTech can I donate to Notifico! ?
18:05 < dx> TkTech: could you clarify?
18:05 <@TkTech> Over the fast few days several of you have been extremely immature in regards to the whole "pbunny" thing. Just let it drop and get on with your lives.
18:06 <@TkTech> shoghicp: The best donation is the one that comes in the form of a pull request :)
18:06 -!- mode/#mcdevs [-o TkTech] by ChanServ
18:06 < dx> i've tried to ignore him and his clones
18:07 < shoghicp> ALso, you need a way to detect server splits
18:07 < dx> but he just keeps interrupting actual conversations with conspiracy theories about java and microsoft
18:07 < shoghicp> the other day the bot got trapped in a split server
18:07 < dx> shoghicp: why should the bot do anything about that?
18:07 < shoghicp> And the only way to recover it was changing the server in the settings (after that, it crashed)
18:07 < shoghicp> dx: he is alone, without company
18:08 -!- Ghoul_ [uid6924@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nbkljxbpkwkrfcpf] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:08 < shoghicp> N! loves humans
18:08 < dx> netsplits affect ircd links - being alone in a server is just a special case
18:08 < dx> you could have a way to send a signal to the bot to reconnect, though
18:09 < TkTech> Yeah, that doesn't really seem like I case I can reliably handle. Even full clients don't detect netsplits properly (often have false positives).
18:09 < shoghicp> maybe a way to reconnect it (captcha-triggered and time limited)
18:09 < TkTech> I can probably flag possible splits and give mods the ability to reconnect them
18:09 < shoghicp> So we don't have to crash it :(
18:09 < shoghicp> hmm
18:09 < shoghicp> :D
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18:10 -!- [shoghicp_ghost] is now known as shoghicp
18:10 < shoghicp> uh
18:11 < shoghicp> TkTech: that should be a good solution, thanks :)
18:11 < shoghicp> So, as you said, I should donate doing pull requests, right?
18:12  * shoghicp thinking ways to donate real money using pull requests
18:12 < TkTech> Yup. I don't need money but I do need time.
18:13 < dx> TkTech: also, PM
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18:21 < AnotherOne> sup mcdevs
18:23 -!- luntik13 [~Sashka@m213-100-59-221.cust.tele2.lv] has joined #mcdevs
18:23 < luntik13> hi
18:23 <+pdelvo> hi
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18:26 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to refactoring [+1/-0/±3] http://git.io/wnrW3w
18:26 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn a34c444 - Added docs and reworked README
18:27 < dx> hey guys i'm trying to set a timeout to a function that runs on a thread, but for some reason this timeout expires much before the period of time i specified
18:27 -!- r04r|away is now known as r04r
18:27 < dx> any idea on why this would be happening?
18:27 < dx> oh wait, nevermind, nevermind
18:28 < luntik13> thread is scheduled with lower priority?
18:28 < dx> i didn't pass the timeout parameter, it's using the default which seems to be 20 minutes
18:28 < luntik13> good job m8
18:28 < dx> yeah it's dumb i know
18:29 < dx> even dumber that the default timeout is 20 minutes when it's meant to be at least 48 hours
18:29 < dx> (i have to do a lot of processing)
18:29 < luntik13> is it java app?
18:29 < dx> okay there pushed to the repo, and i gotta leave now. see you guys later.
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18:34 < AnotherOne> fuck
18:34 < AnotherOne> i can't github
18:36 < AnotherOne> i can't download github client
18:36 < AnotherOne> wtf
18:36 < Yoshi2> I have yet to github at least once in my life
18:38 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to refactoring [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/EQ3k3w
18:38 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn b93c31e - Modify readme
18:40 -!- Fador_ is now known as Fador
18:40 -!- mode/#mcdevs [+v Fador] by ChanServ
18:46 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to refactoring [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/jeBAjQ
18:46 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 432381e - Update THANKS
18:51 -!- AlphaModder [~chatzilla@2602:306:37f4:cb80:2dbf:4ede:b782:c0a0] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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18:56 < Grum> AnotherOne: dont use the client?
18:56 <+pdelvo> the client is awesome! It updates your git automaticly without you have to worry about :D
18:57 <+clonejo> pdelvo: does it work for Linux?
18:57 < TkTech> AnotherOne: It may take you a bit to get used to it (and no one ever learns everything you can do with it), but I'd recommend giving git proper a try.
18:57 <+pdelvo> nope "Github for windows" does not run on linux
18:57 <+clonejo> haha
18:57 < TkTech> AnotherOne: The UI really isn't for developers, it's for the people with repo access on the team that don't know what command.com is.
18:58 <+clonejo> Isn't TortoiseGit quite nice?
18:58 < dx> i think command.com hasn't been used since win 9x died... but the point is still valid
19:01 < Grum> you should really use it on the cmdline before you use a visual client
19:01 < dx> i've used tortoisesvn in the past and it was acceptable since the command set of svn is very limited
19:02 < Grum> mostly the terminology in the visual clients is different from the proper git jargon causing you to have far more confusion when you have a problem and then cannot explain what is *really* doing beyond: 'oh i pressed this buttan' :p
19:02 < dx> heh
19:02 < dx> true
19:02 < Grum> also git is SUPER MEGA trivial under the hood
19:03 < dx> once you understand it
19:03 < Grum> no git by design is super trivial
19:04 < Grum> and then they added some sauce
19:05 <+clonejo> The probably first #mcdevs meetup ever will happen this evening.
19:05 < dx> yes, if you understand how it works, you can see the design is simple. the process of learning it seems to cause problems for a lot of people, especially if they try to compare with SVN
19:05 < dx> clonejo: woo!
19:05 <+clonejo> just two of us, but better than nothing
19:06 < Grum> yeah
19:06 < Grum> you have to instantly forget SVN
19:06 < Grum> every single bit of it
19:06 < Grum> and think of how a 'sane' person would do it
19:06 < dx> heh
19:21 < Brandon15811> dx, I actually tried compiling it against bionic, but gave up after a few days and several hacks
19:21 < dx> Brandon15811: oh lol, this is static then?
19:21 < Brandon15811> So I just used the codesourcery toolchain and compiled the binary statically
19:21 < dx> that explains the 20mb
19:21 < dx> :D
19:21 < dx> Brandon15811: what libc did you link against?
19:22 < dx> and porting to bionic is a source of headaches for a lot of people, so it's perfectly okay to give up and go static
19:24 < Brandon15811> dx, I used this
19:24 < Brandon15811> http://www.mentor.com/embedded-software/sourcery-tools/sourcery-codebench/editions/lite-edition/
19:26 < dx> >The CodeSourcery C Library (CSLIBC) is a proprietary small-footprint, high performance C library that is part of all Sourcery CodeBench
19:27 < dx> i wonder if they reinvented a wheel that is reinvented enough to compile most stuff out of the box, or just stole from BSD
19:29 < dx> oh, musl is MIT licensed. could be that too
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20:19 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2005 2 files : More FloatingIslandMapGen improvements.
20:30 -!- Xaardas [~tach@p5B252554.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #mcdevs
20:32 < AnotherOne> http://i46.fastpic.ru/big/2013/0528/ed/058f63fbb88f4dd7934df66a27b508ed.png
20:32 < AnotherOne> what did i do wrong?
20:34 < dav1d> wtf is this site
20:34 < redu_> yep, wrong site is what you did
20:35 < AnotherOne> site is ok
20:36 < AnotherOne> it is normal image hosting that can handle non-ascii file names
20:37 -!- lahwran [~lahwran@python/site-packages/lahwran] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20:37 < redu_> now that I took a second look
20:37 < AnotherOne> so what should i do?
20:39 -!- lahwran [~lahwran@python/site-packages/lahwran] has joined #mcdevs
20:40 < dx> AnotherOne: why does the filename of the image matter?
20:41 < dx> AnotherOne: and if you're using that weird-ass client that doesn't show proper error messages, there's nothing we can do to help
20:41 < AnotherOne> whay client is ok?
20:42 < AnotherOne> what*
20:42 < dx> command line one
20:42 < AnotherOne> fuk it
20:42 < AnotherOne> i want to push buttons
20:42 < dx> at the very least, it does not attempt to hide the actual error message to make it easier to understand
20:43 < dx> it does not think the user is an idiot
20:44 < dx> (just to be clear i'm not saying you are, i'm saying that GUI treats you like one)
20:46 < AnotherOne> not every gui i think
20:48 < dx> oh of course
20:48 < dx> some apps have really neat log viewers too
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20:58 < AnotherOne> github client has some troubles with refreshing data
20:59 < AnotherOne> "shoeless shoemaker", omg
20:59 < AnotherOne> shame on github team
21:01 < AnotherOne> it works
21:01 < AnotherOne> so... https://github.com/tehme/mcprotocol
21:02 < AnotherOne> sorry for dirty code
21:03 -!- edk is now known as edk141
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21:03 -!- edk_ is now known as edk
21:07 < Grum> https://github.com/tehme/mcprotocol/blob/master/slotdata.h#L14 <-- whut? ;D
21:07 < AnotherOne> yes
21:08 < AnotherOne> russian comments
21:08 < AnotherOne> will fix later
21:08 < Grum> doesnt even look russian O.o
21:09 < AnotherOne> encoding:)
21:09 < Grum> rather lack of encoding?
21:10 < dx> looks like an eastern european variant of ISO-8859-* interpreted as ISO-8859-1
21:11 -!- Stormx2 [~Stormx2@cpc18-sotn9-2-0-cust33.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
21:11 < dx> i wish we could just kill these encodings already
21:12 < AnotherOne> how do i make changes?
21:12 < AnotherOne> just edit files and git takes care of anything else?
21:13 < dav1d> that is a lot of unsorted files
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21:45 < dav1d> pdelvo: ping!
21:48 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/UE07EA
21:48 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 46e4090 - Catch Throwable in VerboseThread
21:49 < dav1d> pdelvo: your example world works for me, I pushed changes which should report the error if it the threads crash ^
21:54 -!- Cay [~OlofLarss@s83-177-171-150.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:55 < dav1d> oh
21:55 < dav1d> here we go
21:56 < dav1d> if I move a bit the threads crash
22:02 -!- SuinDraw [~NiaTeppel@WiseOS/Founder/NiaTeppelin] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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22:07 < AnotherOne> fuck threads
22:07 < AnotherOne> i have deadlock
22:08 < dav1d> AnotherOne: don't use them?
22:08 < AnotherOne> asynchronous hacks?
22:09 < Yoshi2> you might want to simplify your threads to prevent deadlocks
22:10 < AnotherOne> how should it work? main loop: read data from socket with some timeout, try to process received data, other
22:10 < AnotherOne> but how long must this timeout be?
22:12 < AnotherOne> simplify you say...
22:12 <+Fador> how about non-blocking sockets?
22:12 < AnotherOne> i don't understand how they work
22:13 <+Fador> my whole server is on a single thread
22:13 < AnotherOne> what if this socket is still reading whrn i want to process data?
22:13 < AnotherOne> when*
22:13 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 3 commits to master [+0/-0/±5] http://git.io/RXPj6Q
22:13 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 040ce1c - no lock needed for queue.empty
22:13 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 5923df2 - put chunk into tessellation queue only once
22:13 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 045ff23 - Fixed tessellation thread crashs when accessing empty chunk
22:14 < dav1d> AnotherOne: http://docs.python.org/2/library/select.html#select.select http://unixhelp.ed.ac.uk/CGI/man-cgi?select+2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Select_(Unix)
22:14 <+Fador> read -> process -> back to read if not enough data
22:14 < dav1d> also
22:14 < dav1d> AnotherOne: http://software.schmorp.de/pkg/libev.html
22:15 < dav1d> more libev http://doc.dvgu.ru/devel/ev.html
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22:19 < dav1d> pdelvo: would be cool if you could try again now and see if it still fails
22:20 <+clonejo> dav1d: #mcdevs meetup was fun!
22:20 <+clonejo> hehe
22:20 < dav1d> clonejo: oh you did do one :D
22:20 < dav1d> nice
22:20 < dav1d> did you make photos!?
22:20 <+clonejo> nope
22:20 < dav1d> *take pictures
22:21 <+clonejo> we are not the photo taking people
22:21 < dav1d> too bad!
22:21 <+clonejo> put pdelvo will start studying at the RWTH next semester, so we might have a lot of #mcdevs meetups in the future
22:22 < dav1d> I should have gone to aachen instead of vienna :P
22:22 < dav1d> (was my 2nd coice)
22:22 < dav1d> *choice
22:22 <+clonejo> hehe
22:27 < dav1d> noooo
22:28 <+clonejo> in theory you could still switch, but it would mean a lot of hassle
22:28 < dav1d> na not gonna do that
22:28 < dav1d> maybe I'll make my master there
22:29 < dav1d> :( I thought I improved performance but I think I just made it worse
22:29 < dav1d> tessellation = faster, rendering slower
22:29 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:30 < dav1d> btw git blame is cool
22:31 -!- Seegee [4a5839cb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.88.57.203] has joined #mcdevs
22:31 <+clonejo> pretty much
22:46 <+pdelvo> we watched Hangover 3 :D
22:47 < dav1d> lol
22:47 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2006 2 files : Further tweaks to FloatingIslandMapGen, including stream and waterfall generation.
22:49 < dav1d> wtf did I break again -.-
23:01 -!- TRocket [~TRocket@82-69-14-167.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:01 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±3] http://git.io/1CCgdg
23:01 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 9135024 - reverted useless optimization, added some more helpers
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23:06 <+pdelvo> @ dav1d https://gist.github.com/pdelvo/394ffdf37f41faefe40b
23:07 < dav1d> pdelvo: they can be ignored
23:07 < dav1d> pdelvo: but everything else works?
23:07 <+pdelvo> jeah :)
23:08 < dav1d> awesome! 
23:08 < dav1d> next step will probably 1.5 support
23:08 < dav1d> then a change to the packets: class → struct
23:08 < dav1d> and then maybe physics
23:09 < dav1d> next year probably :P
23:09 <+pdelvo> what about the lightning? 
23:09 <+pdelvo> we need shadows!
23:09 <+clonejo> -n
23:09 < dav1d> pdelvo: ha!
23:09 < dav1d> I was thinking of throwing the rendering as it is away
23:10 < dav1d> → shadows fancy dynamic lights n' stuff
23:12 <+pdelvo> it seems like this version is performing better then the previous
23:12 <+pdelvo> Now I got around 900fps
23:12 < dav1d> yeah :)
23:12 < dav1d> I made a stuipid optimization which was dumb
23:13 <+pdelvo> Can you make the mojang team make stupid optimizations too?
23:13 <+pdelvo> Youre good at this
23:14 < dav1d> ha, I mean, in the first version there was that stuipid optimization :P
23:14 < dav1d> (which I removed in this)
23:14 <+pdelvo> oh :D
23:15 < dav1d> pdelvo: is your chunk-renderdistance thingy set to 10 in the server config?
23:15 < shoghicp> dx: ping
23:15 < dav1d> shoghicp: pong
23:15 < dx> shoghicp: HELLO
23:16 < dx> dav1d: YOU'RE NOT ME
23:16 < dav1d> WHAT?
23:16 < dav1d> who am I?
23:16 < dav1d> (please don't say pbunny now)
23:16 < shoghicp> I got a new android binary for you ;) (33s world generation/ 2 seconds normal start)
23:16 < dx> shoghicp: NEAT
23:17 < shoghicp> dx: http://sourceforge.net/projects/pocketmine/files/builds/PHP_5.4.15_ARM_Android.tar
23:17 < dx> shoghicp: THIS ISN'T 5.5
23:17 < shoghicp> nope
23:17 < dx> dav1d: NASTYCREEPER
23:17 < shoghicp> It is compiled by Brandon15811
23:17 < dx> Brandon15811: THANKS
23:17 < shoghicp> I do the PHP5.5 ones
23:17 < Brandon15811> welcome :D
23:18 < dav1d> shoghicp: sourceforge?
23:18 < shoghicp> dav1d: binaries, too big for github
23:18 < dav1d> lol
23:18 < dav1d> shoghicp: wow you got lots of commits there
23:18 < shoghicp> (too big => too much bandwidth)
23:19 < dx> randomly quoting: "If your project is hosted on SourceForge I’m immediately 90% less likely to use it."
23:20 <+pdelvo> view distance is a t 10
23:20 < dx> pdelvo: you bralaing?
23:20 <+pdelvo> jeah
23:20 < dav1d> kk
23:21 < shoghicp> I host my project on github ;)
23:21 < shoghicp> but binaries are too big
23:21 < shoghicp> So I use sourceforge for that and only for that
23:21 < dx> yeah, that's actually a good decision
23:22 < dx> sourceforge might not be user friendly but they don't hate file downloads
23:22 <+pdelvo> @ dav1d I get about 500fps at 15 view distance. 
23:22 < dav1d> this is great!
23:22 -!- Yoshi2 [~chatzilla@xdsl-87-79-113-111.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130511120803]]
23:23 -!- Yoshi2 [~Yoshi2@xdsl-87-79-113-111.netcologne.de] has joined #mcdevs
23:24 < dav1d> impressive
23:24 < dav1d> php would kill after even 1k lines
23:24 <+pdelvo> Lets see if you can impress me. switching to hd 4000 onboard graphics...
23:25 < dav1d> haha
23:25 < dav1d> probably won't even start
23:25 < dav1d> na it should
23:25 <+pdelvo> hd 4000 is pretty good for an onboard solution
23:26 < dav1d> yeah it probably supports even opengl 4.3
23:26 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to refactoring [+0/-0/±3] http://git.io/47YCtQ
23:26 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 67c92de - Fixed build issues on Mono
23:26 <+pdelvo> guess how many fps i get. view distance is 15
23:28 <+pdelvo> 350 oO
23:28 < dav1d> wow
23:28 < dav1d> pdelvo: did I impress you? :)
23:28 <+pdelvo> yes you did. so i think the cpu is limiting there
23:28 < dav1d> that would be insane
23:29 < dav1d> try moving to a jungle
23:29 < dav1d> it should get really worse in comparison to a flat area (without many trees)
23:30 <+pdelvo> i need to put up my movement speed first. this would take hours to fly to a jungle
23:31 < dav1d> is it slower than creative speed?
23:31 <+pdelvo> it feels like
23:31 < shoghicp> dx: works?
23:31 < dav1d> yeah, but dimensions aren't correct, blocks are smaller than in "real" minecraft
23:32 < dx> shoghicp: I DON'T KNOW
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23:33 <+pdelvo> it freezed
23:33 <+pdelvo> last thing on the console: NOT LOGGED: Freeing 0x08ce05bc. brala\dine\chunk.d:74
23:33 < dav1d> pdelvo: can you paste more
23:34 < dav1d> NOT LOGGED is often displayed when the D runtime shuts down
23:35 < dav1d> (or out of memory)
23:35 <+pdelvo> no i dont have more now. but there wasnt anything special
23:35 < Seegee> Does anyone know what the player speed is measured in?  http://wiki.vg/Protocol#Player_Abilities_.280xCA.29
23:35 <+md_5> Multiplier iirc
23:35 < dav1d> pdelvo: did you see if it was shutting down? or was it a crash?
23:36 < dav1d> shutdown = 400 free messages
23:36 <+pdelvo> dont know
23:36 <+pdelvo> but i got a crash for you
23:36 < Seegee> "Multiplier iirc" was that to me +md_5?
23:36 <+md_5> Yeah
23:36 < dav1d> yay
23:36 <+md_5> Gtg bye
23:36 < dav1d> gotta luv dem crashes
23:37 <+pdelvo> https://gist.github.com/pdelvo/bbf086f219a294bd1810
23:37 <+pdelvo> there are multiple in it
23:37 < dav1d> wow xD
23:38 < Seegee> Does anyone know what +md_5 meant when he said "Multiplier iirc"
23:38 < dav1d> pdelvo: do you always get so many opengl warnings?
23:38 <+pdelvo> jeah
23:38 <+pdelvo> with both gpus
23:39 < dav1d> also when not moving?
23:39 < dav1d> interesting
23:39 <+pdelvo> when im not moving i only get frame time reports
23:40 < dav1d> well then it's fine
23:40 <+pdelvo> It crashed again while i was writing in here
23:40 <+pdelvo> "Invalid height"
23:40 < dav1d> still gotta look into it
23:40 < dav1d> void on_packet(T : s.BlockChange)(T packet) {
23:40 < dav1d>         _current_world.set_block(vec3i(packet.x, packet.y, packet.z), Block(packet.type, packet.metadata));
23:40 < dav1d>     }
23:40 < dav1d> invalid BlockChange packet
23:40 < dav1d> looks like it
23:41 -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:42 < dav1d> gah why are there no stacktraces
23:42 < dav1d> stuipid windows
23:43 < dav1d> pdelvo: is bin/bralad.exe a 32 bit or 64 bit executable?
23:43 <+pdelvo> 32bit
23:44 < Brandon15811> dx, if you're curious, I pushed the script I used for cross-compiling php
23:44 < Brandon15811> https://github.com/PocketMine/PocketMine-MP/blob/master/src/build/cross-compile.sh
23:44 < dx> fun
23:44 < dx> "arm-none-linux-gnueabi"
23:45 < dav1d> pdelvo: btw. you could probably get 1000+ fps when compiling with -O -inline -noboundscheck and without -debug -g -gc :)
23:45 < dav1d> or by using gcc
23:45 < dav1d> *gdc
23:46 < dx> Brandon15811: lines 35-40 are basically reinventing autoconf
23:47 < Brandon15811> dx, those were from shoghicp
23:47 < dx> shoghicp: THIS IS YOUR FAULT
23:48 < shoghicp> dx: sure it is
23:48 < dx> shoghicp: EVERYTHING IS
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--- Day changed mer. mai 29 2013
00:13 -!- feep [~feep@d172-218-59-147.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #mcdevs
00:14 < feep> hi
00:14 < dav1d> feep: o/
00:14 < feep> \o
00:14 < feep> can I ignore encryption if I just want to run offline mode?
00:14 <+pdelvo> hi
00:14 < dav1d> feep: omg you work on your client again?
00:14 < feep> and if so: how do I handle clients sending a 0xfd when polling a server?
00:14 < feep> dav1d: server
00:14 < dav1d> feep: oh right :P
00:14 < feep> dav1d: and I'm just poking at it right now
00:15 < feep> I can't find any sort of "reject encryption" packet.. :p
00:15 < dav1d> feep: I think you can ignore it in offline mode, clonejo knows more :P
00:15 < feep> will polling simply not work?
00:15 < feep> dav1d: well the problem is that it sends a 0xfd even just for the server browser
00:15 < dav1d> feep: 0xfd is sent server → client
00:15 < feep> I get it on the server
00:15 < feep> hm
00:16 < feep> moar logging
00:16 < dav1d> feep: na, this shouldn't happen
00:16 < feep> maybe I'm doing handshake wrong. logging will tell.
00:16 < dav1d> feep: client sends EncryptionKeyResponse
00:17 < dav1d> if the server omits 0xfd the client should know there is no encryption
00:17 < feep> oh, my mistake
00:17 < feep> I got the translation wrong. I should really make it dump packet ids in hex ..
00:17 < feep> is actually a 0xfe :D
00:17 < feep> in my defense I just got up
00:18 < dav1d> feep: just send a oxff
00:18 < dav1d> *0xff
00:18 < feep> oh, I see. It's a compiler bug on my part.
00:19 < dav1d> feep: you can blame yourself for that compiler bug! :P
00:19 < dav1d> feep: there it is: http://wiki.vg/Server_List_Ping
00:19 < feep> yus, fixing fixing
00:19 < feep> for some reason, "0xfe == ubyte:-2" fails
00:20 < dav1d> o.O
00:20 < feep> I think I convert ubyte to int incorrectly.
00:20 < dav1d> ah
00:20 < dav1d> feep: well depends
00:20 < dav1d> -2 != -2
00:20 < feep> aaaa cold laptop on lap
00:20 < dav1d> you probably don't keep the sign?
00:20 < feep> I didn't use to have unsigned bytes
00:20 < feep> so the transition probably mucked something up
00:20 < feep> dav1d: do you know a quick way to consume a lot of cpu
00:21 < dav1d> feep: well: 10000000 = 1111111110000000
00:21 < dav1d> feep: while(true) {}
00:21 -!- Xaardas [~tach@p5B252554.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Tschuess und bis Bald]
00:21 < feep> fair nuff
00:21 -!- shoghicp [~shoghicp@77.225.6.14] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
00:22 < dav1d> feep: btw encryption isn't a huge problem
00:22 < feep> ah, delicious warmth
00:23 < feep> dav1d: well yeah but I'm going for mineffort for the moment
00:23 < dav1d> feep: mineffort? (pun detected, parsing failed)
00:23 < feep> :p
00:24 < dav1d> there was an openssl example for serverside RSA AES shit
00:24 < dav1d> Fado_r should have it, if you need it
00:24 <+Fador> yeah
00:24 <+Fador> ;)
00:24 < dx> attempt to avoid ping failed
00:24 < dav1d> :(
00:24 < dav1d> I tried my best!
00:25 <+Fador> well it is already 1:24am here!
00:25 <+Fador> I should be sleeping
00:25 < dav1d> -1h here
00:25 < dx> +18h here
00:25  * dx ignores the fact that timezones don't work like that
00:25 < dav1d> zzz time
00:26 < dav1d> feep: you got your code on github?
00:26 < feep> owait this code is correct. I had byte kind; instead of ubyte kind;
00:26 < feep> >_<
00:26 < feep> dav1d: yup
00:26 < dx> Fador: i'd like to see the openssl encryption example
00:26 < dav1d> feep: https://github.com/FeepingCreature/autofab :D
00:26 < dav1d> feep: you play FTB?
00:26 < feep> dav1d: did for a while
00:26 < feep> stopped when I finished the autofab
00:27 < dx> lol
00:27 < dav1d> yeah got bored, too
00:27 < feep> (context: it's a computercraft bot that can run arbitrary industry tasks!)
00:27 < dav1d> feep: can't find your code on gh
00:27 < dav1d> is it in fcc o.O?
00:27 < feep> so you can do "give me five solar cells" and it does "you need resources a, b, c, d, e"
00:27 < feep> no
00:27 < feep> sec
00:27 < dx> i found computercraft turtles annoyingly limited
00:27 < dav1d> ^
00:27 < feep> dav1d: https://github.com/FeepingCreature/FeepcraftServ/
00:27 < dav1d> and the api is a pita
00:27 < feep> dx: yeah they are
00:27 < feep> indeed
00:27 < feep> I am limited to 14 items per chest
00:27 < dav1d> "Support 1.8"
00:27 < dav1d> :D
00:28 < dav1d> you're ahead of time
00:28 < feep> because I have to grab them all into my inventory, select the one I need
00:28 < feep> dav1d: sadly, it's the old 1.8
00:28 < dav1d> :)
00:28 < feep> then store them back
00:28 < dav1d> wow I hate github for not highlighting neat
00:28 < feep> something like 50% of the bot runtime is spent doing inventory management
00:28 < dx> "authored 2 years ago"
00:28 < feep> still, it's fun for automating boring production runs
00:28 < feep> it's even pretty smart
00:28 < feep> it'll try to interleave parallel tasks
00:29 < feep> you can give it more furnaces and it'll make parallel use of them
00:29 < dx> feep: :D
00:29 < dav1d> haha
00:29 < dav1d> autofapfap
00:29 < feep> of course, if you run 1000-step production plans there MAY be issues where computercraft spontaneously decides to kill it
00:29 < feep> fast server recommended
00:29 < dx> feep: if i ever decide to go back to ftb (my server is still there and my friends still bug me to play with them), i'll totally steal your inventory management code
00:29 < feep> dx: n__n
00:30 < feep> dx: share screens if it happens please!
00:30 < dx> feep: sure!
00:30 < dx> i don't even remember what plans i had with computercraft
00:30 < feep> anyway, changed type to ubyte, now it works again
00:31 < dx> feep: oh, how do you, uhm, get a decent editor for this code?
00:31 < feep> hm. I should fix the version number.
00:31 <+Fador> dx: https://github.com/fador/mineserver/blob/master/src/mineserver.cpp#L295 <- key generation
00:31 < feep> dx: any editor that speaks D
00:31 < feep> dx: just add .nt to the extensions
00:31 < feep> neat and D are very close in syntax.
00:31 < feep> dx: or do you mean the lua?
00:31 < dx> feep: i meant the computercraft lua :P
00:31 < feep> ah
00:31 < feep> I just edit it locally, then http load it over
00:32 < dx> oh i see, thanks
00:32 < feep> one of the scripts can do that
00:32 <+Fador> dx: https://github.com/fador/mineserver/blob/master/src/packets.cpp#L214 <- "secret" decryption
00:32 < feep> frun I think
00:32 < feep> (update url to match)
00:32 < dav1d> https://gist.github.com/Dav1dde/4298774 all I did in computercraft then I was so annoyed by the api
00:32 < feep> dav1d: yeah it's pretty annoying
00:32 < dx> having an http api that is so powerful and such limited turtle interaction is weird
00:32 < dx> Fador: thanks!
00:33 <+Fador> dx: https://github.com/fador/mineserver/blob/master/include/user.h#L109 <- cipher init
00:33 < feep> dav1d: basically
00:33 < feep> the turtle cannot recognize materials. at all.
00:33 < feep> it just goes off its known database of "chests and the things in them"
00:33 < feep> so you have to tell it what you're storing
00:33 < feep> from a fixed list
00:33 < dx> Fador: for a sec i thought you were going to link a preprocessor macro
00:33 <+Fador> dx: https://github.com/fador/mineserver/blob/master/src/sockets.cpp#L94 <- encryption and #L167 decryption
00:33 < feep> it does do sanity checking id comparisons.
00:33 <+Fador> dx ;)
00:33 < dav1d> feep: yeah it is dumb
00:33 < feep> dav1d: still good enough for automated fabrication though
00:34 < feep> dav1d: https://github.com/FeepingCreature/autofab/blob/master/recipes.txt
00:34 < dav1d> feep: there is a block which can detect the item, but it doesn't spit out the item id, but some totally reatarded number
00:34 < feep> (note: is gregtech)
00:34 < dav1d> feep: mindcrack pack?
00:34 < feep> dav1d: nah, ftb
00:34 < feep> dav1d: the point is
00:34 < dav1d> feep: there are different packs
00:34 < feep> if you use it on other computercraft systems
00:34 < dx> "ftb" isn't a valid pack name
00:34 < feep> adjust your recipes
00:35 < dav1d> feep: ftb mindcrack pack e.g.
00:35 < feep> dav1d: no, vanilla?
00:35 < dav1d> feep: there is no ftb pack
00:35 < dav1d> feep: ohhhh
00:35 < dx> vanilla ftb? :D
00:35 < feep> yes
00:35 < dav1d> yeah at the very beginning
00:35 < dav1d> feep: they changed that
00:35 < feep> dav1d: hey, aren't the recipe definitions neat?
00:35 < feep> ah
00:35 < dx> dav1d: oh i see
00:36 < dav1d> feep: I don't get them^^
00:36 < dx> when i started the closest to that was "FTB Beta A"
00:36 < dav1d> 121
00:36 < dav1d> 333
00:36 < dav1d> ...
00:36 < feep> dav1d: numbers indicate order in the list
00:36 < dav1d> wat?
00:36 < feep> it's like pnm
00:36 < dav1d> ah
00:36 < feep> dx: yeah :D
00:36 -!- SpaceManiac [~SpaceMani@r74-192-152-131.gtwncmta01.grtntx.tl.dh.suddenlink.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
00:36 < dav1d> yeah the beginning of FTB
00:37 < feep> so 1 is redstone torch, 2 is redstone, 3 is stone
00:37 < feep> . means "nothing"
00:38 < dav1d> Prf_Jakob: I want neat macros in volt :P
00:38 < feep> nooooooooooo
00:38 < dav1d> https://github.com/FeepingCreature/fcc/blob/master/std/macros/swap.nt
00:38 < feep> bad idea! bad idea!!
00:38 < dav1d> I have no idea what they do, but they look fancy
00:38 < dav1d> feep: mh why?
00:38 < feep> dav1d: they are shit.
00:38 < dav1d> ok, I don't want them^^
00:38 < feep> dav1d: unrelatedly: hey look what I wrote yesterday~
00:38 < feep> https://github.com/FeepingCreature/fcc/blob/master/std/macros/where.nt
00:38 < feep> (also you should totally want macros in volt)
00:38 < feep> (just not NEAT macros)
00:38 < dav1d> but some kind of ast-manipulation would be cool
00:38 < feep> yus
00:39 < feep> I assure you it is really cool
00:39 < dav1d> feep: wow, I understand 0% of that! gj
00:39 < feep> dav1d: thank you :bows:
00:39 < feep> I did try.
00:39 < feep> dav1d: it does the cool thing where
00:39 < feep> .neatst void foo(int i) where i > 3 { } foo(0);
00:39 < feepbot> feep: [Current thread is 1 (process 16324)]\n#0  0xf77a9430 in ?? ()\nUnhandled error: 'Condition: UnrecoverableError: AssertError: Failed: at neatsrcmSsAwK.nt:1:174\ni > 3 was false (i = 0)'. \n
00:40 < feep> if you give it a more complex boolean expression it'll decompose it and tell you in detail which part failed and how
00:40 < dx> how am i supposed to get more informaton on this "neat" tool
00:40 < feep> it's basically a smart assert and man I am so offtopic.
00:40 < dav1d> that is cool
00:40 < dav1d> dx: you don't
00:40 < feep> dx: tl;dr it's my compiler :D 
00:40 < dx> i tried to search "neat d" and got results of "neat :D" and "neat =D"
00:40 < dav1d> haha
00:40 < feep> dx: you can check the wiki page on github! it has a bunch of docs.
00:40 < dav1d> feep: you have docs?
00:41 < feep> dav1d: I have docs.
00:41 < dav1d> wow :D
00:41 < feep> weird, I know.
00:41 < dx> you don't even have repo descriptions or readme files and you have wiki pages?
00:41 < feep> dx: https://github.com/FeepingCreature/fcc/wiki
00:41 < feep> dx: readme is kind of useless
00:41 < feep> dx: are you on windows or linux?
00:41 < dx> linux
00:41 < feep> okay, so you THEORETICALLY have a chance to build fcc but the process is really involved
00:41 < dx> haha
00:42 < feep> due to lack of backwards compatibility, neat only builds on a specific version of a specific D compiler linked to a specific major version of gcc
00:42 < dx> fun
00:42 < feep> all newer and older versions cause compiler crashes in the D compiler
00:42 < dav1d> feep: "D is Neat's big brother. In a sense, Neat is D1.5 + i." :)
00:42 < dav1d> Complex 1.5 D :D
00:42 < feep> dx: which is why I heartily recommend using one of my binary builds if you want to play with it
00:42 < feep> dx: or just use feepbot's .neat, .neatex, .neatst for easy experimentation
00:42 < feep> (works in privmsg too!)
00:42 < dx> dav1d: i was just about to quote that :D
00:43 < feep> .neatex 5
00:43 < feepbot> feep: 5\n
00:43 < dx> feep: sure, binary builds where?
00:43 < feep> dx: um
00:43 <+Prf_Jakob> dav1d: hehe
00:43 < feep> dx: give me a minute, I'll make one
00:43 < dx> feep: er actually
00:43 < feep> just have to run a script
00:43 < dx> uuhhm okay
00:43 < dx> feep: but i have no idea why i would need this :D
00:43 < feep> dx: you don't!
00:43 < dx> :D
00:43 < feep> dx: hey, are you using D?
00:44 < dav1d> feep: why does Standard Library documentation link to libgc?
00:44 < dx> feep: no :D
00:44 < feep> dx: aw.
00:44 < dav1d> feep: nvm
00:44 < feep> I would have said "neat is like D1 but with more gamedev and fun stuffs"
00:44 < dx> feep: should i? there's an interesting amount of people in this channel into that language
00:44 < feep> dx: hm. do you use C++1x?
00:44 < dx> (that amount is 3)
00:44 < feep> (4)
00:44 < dx> feep: no :D
00:44 < feep> dx: okay
00:44 < feep> do you use ANY modern language
00:44 < dav1d> feep: who is the 4th?
00:44 < feep> dav1d: hi
00:44 < dx> feep: no :D
00:44 < dav1d> feep: you Prf_Jakob and me
00:44 < feep> dx: :(
00:44 < feep> dav1d: oh. hm.
00:45 < feep> right. sorry.
00:45 < dav1d> :D
00:45 < dx> feep: well, python
00:45 < feep> can we count feepbot
00:45 < feep> dx: ooh. python~
00:45 < dav1d> yeah!
00:45 < feep> dx: D is like if C++ was more like python.
00:45 < dav1d> feepbot is our man
00:45 < dx> feep: I LIKE IT ALREADY
00:45 < feep> dx: INORITE
00:45 < feep> and Neat is like if D was more like Lisp.
00:45 < dx> feep: i also code C and think that C++ is not an improvement at all to the language
00:46 < feep> dx: well in that case you will be happy to know that D can bind natively to C libraries
00:46 < dx> feep: woo
00:46 < feep> (Neat can do it too, but better)
00:46 < feep> neat actually has a thing where you can import C headers as if they were neat modules.
00:46 < dav1d> feep: your code is great: `if (isWindoze()) output ~= ".exe";`
00:46 < feep> dav1d: :D
00:46 < dx> feep: wrapping them in some sort of namespace?
00:46 < feep> dx: yus, and an unrelated thing where you can treat any C library as if it was a proper written port using modes!
00:46 < dav1d> isWindoze, great
00:46 < feep> dav1d: ~
00:47 < feep> dx: like
00:47 < dx> dav1d: :D
00:47 < feep> "using mode GL { BindTexture(TEXTURE_2D, 0); }
00:47 < dav1d> ^ this is just awesome
00:47 < feep> actually, let me find my favorite example for this, the cairo demo
00:47 < dav1d> first time I saw it, GIVE ME NEAT
00:47 < dx> feep: i have no idea what that means :D
00:47 < feep> dx: do you know cairo?
00:47 < dx> yeah
00:47 < dx> i mean the "using mode GL" part
00:47 < feep> you'll understand in a minute
00:48 < dx> okay!
00:48 < dx> also, are we talking about neat or D?
00:48 < dav1d> dx: neat
00:48 < dx> dav1d: neat
00:48 < dav1d> indeed
00:49 < dav1d> (notice the rhyme?)
00:49 < dx> i should make my own language called indeed
00:49 < dx> using neat as base
00:49 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2007 2 files : Finishing FloatingIslandMapGen for now.
00:50 < dav1d> time to zz, cya!
00:50 < dx> bye!
00:51 < feep> hm. I mave not used this stuff in way too long
00:51 < feep> dav1d: night
00:51 < feep> so it doesn't seem to work right now. BAH! I can still use it to demo the syntax
00:51 < feep> dx: https://gist.github.com/5666758
00:52 < feep> dx: note line 32 and onwards
00:52 < dx> .nt.d
00:52 < feep> dx: note: this is not a wrapper layer! this is straight C calls.
00:53 < dx> lol'd at line 33
00:53 < feep> :p
00:53 < feep> dx: unrelatedly, binary dist http://feephome.no-ip.org/~feep/fccdists/fcc-Wed%20May%2029%2000%3A44%3A33%20CEST%202013.tar.bz2
00:56 < dx> feep: yeah, well, i don't know how to say it, but... i really have no idea what i'm reading
00:56 < feep> dx: it's just cairo calls.
00:57 < dx> i understood that much
00:57 < feep> dx: the point of it is
00:57 < dx> what i don't understand is the magic that your language applies to transform those calls
00:57 < feep> okay, two parts.
00:57 < feep> you know how cairo is like
00:57 < feep> cairo_set_source_rgb(ctx, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0);
00:57 < dx> yeah
00:58 < feep> and how the cairo_ prefix sort of emulates a module system
00:58 < dx> indeed
00:58 < feep> which is completely useless in neat because we already have a module system
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00:58 < feep> consequentially, https://github.com/FeepingCreature/fcc/blob/master/std/lib/cairo.nt
00:58 < feep> defmode cairo "prefix cairo_ prefix CAIRO_";
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00:58 < dx> oh derp
00:58 < dx> THIS EXPLAINS EVERYTHING
00:58 < feep> ^__^
00:59 < feep> there's a second magic to it
00:59 < feep> you know how the ctx is sort of like an object
00:59 < dx> yeah
00:59 < feep> right, so you have defmode cairo-context x "first-arg x";
00:59 < dx> so first-arg
00:59 < feep> which does exactly what it sounds like
00:59 < dx> yeah, the fact that this is defined here makes it reasonable :P
01:00 < feep> ^^
01:00 < feep> dx: there's some more involved magic around glibc
01:00 < dx> i really thought your language had some sort of built-in heuristics to guess when an API has some of these prefixes
01:00 < feep> haha
01:00 < feep> dx: the glibc magic is SORT OF built in
01:00 < feep> https://github.com/FeepingCreature/fcc/blob/master/std/lib/gtk.nt
01:00 < dx> glibc or glib?
01:01 < feep> er
01:01 < feep> glib
01:01 < feep> sorry
01:01 < feep> the gobject stuff basically makes it aware of the inheritance relations between glib/gtk pointer types
01:01 < feep> meaning that it essentially typechecks your gtk calls :D
01:02 < dx> neat!
01:02 < dx> gobject supports introspection to rebuild the whole object system though
01:03 < dx> they don't want to write language bindings anymore now that they have "gi"
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01:03 < feep> feh, fuck 'em
01:03 < dx> lol
01:04 < dx> nah, you should figure out how to take advantage of this
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01:04 < feep> the entire point is that you don't write language bindings
01:04 < feep> it's a neat design point
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01:04 < feep> you take the C API and give neat a few hints how to make a binding from that
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01:04 < dx> yep, pretty much
01:04 < feep> (or you can just use the C API up straight)
01:05 < feep> (or any mix)
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01:05 < feep> really, neat is very much on the perl side of things
01:05 < feep> .wp tim toady
01:05 < feepbot> feep: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There's_more_than_one_way_to_do_it There's more than one way to do it (TMTOWTDI or TIMTOWTDI, pronounced “Tim Toady”) is a Perl programming motto. The language was designed with this idea in mind, in that it “doesn't try to tell the programmer how to program.
01:05 < feep> also I love that wikipedia page to bits
01:05 < dx> the gtk one looks like it's limited by the amount of objects you define in that file, though
01:05 < feep> yeah.
01:05 < feep> the thing is
01:05 < feep> I REALLY don't want to depend on an external tool
01:05 < feep> that just begs for version incompatibility
01:06 < dx> ..an external tool that generates the hints file? or what
01:06 < feep> the headers are the canonical, and thus only sane, source of api data
01:06 < feep> yeah
01:06 < dx> hmm
01:06 < dx> you should make smarter hints then :D
01:06 < feep> :D
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01:06 < feep> if there was some way to get the inheritance data from the header ..
01:06 < feep> but alas.
01:07 < feep> ANYWAY back to minecraft
01:07 < dx> what's minecraft?
01:07 < feep> :D
01:07 < dx> doesn't sound as fun as neat
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01:10 < feep> dx: it's still neat
01:10 < feep> neat and minecraft, neatcraft, mineatcraft
01:10 < feep> also: got the server list window to show the correct version!
01:11 < dx> is the correct version beta 1.8?
01:11 <+Prf_Jakob> feep: so you are back at making a server?
01:13 < feep> Connecting: FeepingCreature at 61 to 127.0.0.1:25565 // woo
01:13 < feep> Prf_Jakob: for today at least
01:13 < feep> dx: 1.5.4 for now
01:14 < dx> feep: *for now*
01:14 < feep> dx: so I get a 0x02 handshake
01:14 < feep> if I want to unencrypted, what's the correct response?
01:15 < feep> does anyone have something like a state machine graph for the handshake/interaction
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01:20 <+Prf_Jakob> feep: IRCC if you are using a vanilla server it will force encryption
01:20 < feep> welp! I got minecraft to crash
01:20 < feep> Prf_Jakob: I'm _writing_ a server :p
01:20 <+Prf_Jakob> oh right
01:20 < feep> anyway I get up to the point where it starts sending terrain
01:20 < feep> so I'll look at that next
01:20 <+Prf_Jakob> I thought it was the server that sent the initial handshake?
01:20 < feep> yeah, recently
01:20 < feep> they combined handshake and login looks like
01:20 < feep> this server is p old :D
01:20 <+Prf_Jakob> oh doh
01:23 < feep> can you run minecraft.jar so as to connect to a server from the commandline?
01:27 < feep> so how does the chunk stuff work recently
01:27 < feep> the prechunk packet seems to have been removed?
01:27 < feep> haalp
01:29 <+clonejo> feep: prechunks are gone, yes
01:30 < feep> clonejo: okay so I just send 0x33?
01:30 < feep> clonejo: how do I unload a chunk?
01:30 <+clonejo> yep
01:30 < feep> or don't I?
01:31 < feep> is unloading clientside now?
01:31 <+clonejo> feep: no
01:32 <+clonejo> feep: send 0x33 with ground-up continuous=true and primary bit mask=0 (eg. don't send any 16^3 chunks)
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01:33 < feep> ah! thanks
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01:42 <+Prf_Jakob> oh and something unrelated
01:42 <+Prf_Jakob> http://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/1f7vwl/openhmd_a_free_and_open_source_cross_platform/ <-- I helped make this.
01:48 < feep> okay, the client is accepting my terrain data
01:48 < feep> Prf_Jakob: woo! go you!
01:49 < feep> :D
01:52 < feep> I get ingame!
01:52 < feep> No terrain yet.
01:52 < feep> But ingame!
01:53 < feep> hm.
01:53 < feep> I definitely _send_ the terrain.
01:54 < feep> is my bitmask off?
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02:18 < feep> boolean is 1-byte, right?
02:18 < feep> oh. 2-byte?
02:21 < feep> wait, is it?
02:21 < feep> o.o
02:23 < feep> the protocol page is beign weird
02:23 < feep> *being
02:23 < feep> the sizes look like bool is 2-sized
02:23 < feep> but if I treat it as 2-sized I get weird errors
02:24 < dx> http://wiki.vg/Data_Types
02:24 < dx> 1
02:25 < feep> then the sizes on http://mc.kev009.com/Protocol are off
02:25 < dx> feep: what packet?
02:25 < feep> anything with boolean
02:25 < feep> hm
02:25 < feep> start with ... OH
02:25 < feep> it counts the ID?
02:25 < feep> sorry, my mistake in that case
02:25 < feep> carry on
02:25 < dx> :D
02:25 < feep> :D
02:26 < feep> okay. terrain.
02:26 < feep> chunks are like, {types, metadata, blocklight, skylight, biomes} for each block right?
02:26 < feep> and gzipped as a whole? not per block?
02:26 < dx> if you ever think that the protocol page is wrong, remember there's always http://b.wiki.vg/1.5.2 with stuff grabbed directly from the jars
02:26 < feep> er
02:26 < feep> chunk*
02:27 < dx> i'm not sure why anyone would gzip each block individually
02:27 < feep> dx: o! that is helpful
02:27 < feep> dx: idk :D
02:28  * mbaxter gzips dx
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02:28 < feep> oh. all my data is 0, that'd explain it.
02:29 < dx> mbaxter: o_o
02:31 < mbaxter> :)
02:33 < feep> okay, I definitely send some valid blocks
02:33 < feep> chunks! agh
02:33 < feep> hey, what does ground-up contiguous actually do?
02:34 < feep> oh I get it
02:38 < dx> i like feep
02:38 < dx> i'm too used to people in other channels who ask questions and make me think for them
02:39 < dx> (or google)
02:39 < dx> (google is a subset of thinking)
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02:48 < feep> alright! Terrain get.
03:01 < feep> well
03:01 < feep> broken terrain
03:01 < feep> hm
03:02 < feep> .. now it stopped working again, what
03:03 < feep> it worked for one try
03:03 < feep> like, randomly
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03:20 < feep> hm. I send my chunk data and the server seems to accept it
03:22 < feep> for what reason could minecraft be ignoring my terrain?
03:28 < feep> I send terrain, I send spawn location, inventory, player pos+look
03:30 < feep> bbl
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03:50 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to refactoring [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/sLqk3Q
03:50 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn d402274 - Update fNbt
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04:03 < feep> dx: hi do you know why the client may be ignoring the terrain data that I send and spawn me in a featureless void?
04:04 <+ammar2> feep: sending it an initial spawn position along with a move packet?
04:04 < feep> yes
04:04 < feep> wait, move packet?
04:05 < feep> do you mean 0x0d?
04:08 <+ammar2> yeah
04:08 <+ammar2> you need it to force the client over to the spawn, a bit hacky but thats how it works
04:10 < feep> ammar2: the client spawns at the correctish position
04:10 < feep> there is just no terrain and it falls into the void.
04:11 <+ammar2> the 'y' and 'stance' fields are swapped
04:11 < feep> ammar2: the client spawns at the correctish position
04:11 < feep> I've confirmed this with F3.
04:11 <+ammar2> feep: are you sending it after the terrain?
04:11 < feep> yes.
04:11 < feep> [18:28] <feep> I send terrain, I send spawn location, inventory, player pos+look
04:24 < feep> it's like it fails to realize that it's supposed to be checking for terrain
04:24 < feep> but it doesn't error or anything
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04:25 < feep> .. ?
04:25 < feep> TkTech: what was that about?
04:25 <@TkTech> I take it you completely ignored the rules in the topic?
04:26 < feep> rechecking
04:26 -!- mode/#mcdevs [-o TkTech] by ChanServ
04:26 < feep> huh. I'm reasonably sure I asked.
04:26 < feep> minute.
04:28 < feep> ....... oh!
04:28 < feep> TkTech: huh
04:28 < feep> TkTech: sorry about that, I don't know how it rejoined
04:28 < feep> TkTech: ........ OH
04:28 < feep> TkTech: you banned it last time, so I never took it off the autojoin list
04:29 < feep> minute
04:29 < feep> man I forgot about that mess
04:29 < feep> should be fine now
04:30 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: Neat, taking a look at it. Did you write bits of it or do the interface?
04:30 < TkTech> feep: Just as an FYI, you do understand that it's common IRC etiquette to ask before bringing your bot into ANY channel, right?
04:31 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: tbf last time it was me that brought the bot in :-P
04:32 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: בּ_בּ
04:33 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: i bit of everytning
04:33 <+Prf_Jakob> -i
04:33 <+Prf_Jakob> +I
04:33 <+Prf_Jakob> +did
04:33 <+Prf_Jakob> +a
04:34 <+Prf_Jakob> yes it is well past my bed time
04:34 <+Prf_Jakob> good night
04:50 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 2 commits to refactoring [+40/-30/±6] http://git.io/G8v2qg
04:50 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 4477255 - Rename Craft.Net.World to Craft.Net.Anvil to avoid namespace problems
04:50 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn ca99cc1 - Started work on Craft.Net.Logic
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05:27 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 2 commits to refactoring [+151/-0/±8] http://git.io/8NN7aQ
05:27 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 3cd19db - Added item descriptor struct
05:27 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn b498369 - Generated files for all 1.5.2 items
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05:46 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to refactoring [+5/-1/±158] http://git.io/bqG5jw
05:46 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 93844ff - Started block code
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08:35 < feep> dx: hi
08:35 < feep> dx: advice?
08:37 < feep> like, is the first map update from the server supposed to be always bulk?
08:37 <+md_5> doesnt have to be
08:38 <+md_5> dont have to use bulk / normal packets at all. mix it up if you feel like it
08:40 < feep> md_5: in that case, I don't know why the client is not seeing any map data
08:40 < feep> I basically spawn and immediately fall into a featureless void
08:40 < feep> no land above or below
08:40 < feep> I confirmed that I'm definitely _sending_ it.
08:41 < feep> or what I think is it
08:41 < feep> I wish Wireshark had a Minecraft module.
08:41 < feep> but I guess the protocol changes too much.
08:41 <+md_5> it used to
08:41 <+md_5> then MC got too hard
08:41 < feep> mh
08:41 <+md_5> and encryption made it impossible
08:41 < feep> well yeah, I don't use encryption currently though
08:42 < feep> don't see anything in the server log either
08:42 < feep> and the server doesn't _error_
08:42 < feep> er
08:42 < feep> client*
08:42 < feep> I don't know what I'm doing wrong.
08:42 <+md_5> https://github.com/ScottBrooks/minecraft-dissector/blob/master/packet-minecraft.c
08:42 < feep> the client errors if it gets incomplete terrain data, right?
08:43 <+md_5> not maintainable at all
08:43 < feep> okay, but my problem is that I spawn and fall into a featureless void with no land in sight
08:43 <+md_5> feep the client errors if *anything* goes wrong, maybe your packet coords are wrong? you could try smproxy, not sure how it likes disabling encryption and 1.5.2 though
08:43 < feep> what's smproxy? I checked my coordinates and they should be correct.
08:44 < feep> position is 0, 0, mask is -1
08:44 < feep> (I send all 16)
08:44 < feep> .. do I need to send a respawn packet?
08:45 < feep> because I can't see how I would transmit initial world height 
08:46 < feep> actually nvm minecraft can't work with >256 anyways because the mask is too limited
08:46 < feep> md_5: anyway I send full columns for -4, -4 to 4, 4
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08:46 <+md_5> https://github.com/SirCmpwn/SMProxy
08:46 <+md_5> its a protocol parsing debugger
08:46 < feep> oh handy. does it support 1.5.2?
08:47 < feep> minute, have to install mono
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08:50 < feep> md_5: smproxy includes a .sln, but I'm not sure how to build that with mono. do you know if there's a binary distribution?
08:50 <+md_5> feep try this: https://github.com/sadimusi/mc3p
08:51 <+md_5> its python
08:51 <+md_5> and supports 1.5.2
08:51 < feep> thank you
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08:54 < feep> md_5: sorry for sounding stupid, but I don't quite see how I am supposed to _run_ this.
08:54  * md_5 has never tried
08:54 <+md_5> python -m mc3p.proxy -p 25566 <server>
08:54 < feep> doesn't work
08:54 <+md_5> so <server> will be the host of your custom server
08:54 < feep> can't work in fact, because I mean, what
08:54 <+md_5> then you will make your client join localhost:25566
08:55 <+md_5> and it should proxy + provide packet dumps
08:55 <+md_5> may break because you dont encrypt
08:55 < feep> oh, "run library module as a script". right.
08:55 < feep> there is no mc3p.proxy anywhere in this repo
08:56 <+md_5> does it error? https://github.com/sadimusi/mc3p/blob/master/mc3p/proxy.py
08:56 <+md_5> looks to me that
08:56 < feep> actually hey okay yeah
08:56 < feep> I get an error related to the lack of gevent
08:56 < feep> but at least it gets into mc3p/proxy.py correctly so I guess that did make sense :D
08:57 < feep> hm. gonna try installing gevent even though the docs say it's not necessary ..
08:59 <+md_5> need libevent on linux
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08:59 < feep> I have libevent installed.
08:59 < feep> maybe it needs a newer version?
08:59 < feep> >2.0 is masked in portage
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09:01 < feep> getting requests as well
09:03 <+sadimusi> feep: `sudo python setup.py install` helps
09:03 < feep> I don't want to install it though :D
09:03 <+sadimusi> then just use "develop" instead
09:03 < feep> that also needs it to be installed
09:04 < feep> well, I tried and it wanted write access to the python site folder thing
09:04 <+sadimusi> it will just be linked
09:04 <+sadimusi> of course it has to install something if you want to run it with -m
09:04 < feep> no it should work locally says the readme
09:04 < feep> also there's apparently a lot of undeclared dependencies :D
09:04 < feep> primarily pycrypto and requests
09:05 < feep> got it to start though :D
09:05 <+sadimusi> they are declared https://github.com/sadimusi/mc3p/blob/master/setup.py#L37
09:06 < feep> yes but not in the readme :D
09:06 < feep> oh sorry, that was ambiguous on my part.
09:07 <+sadimusi> the dependencies in the readme are just things you need before running the setup
09:07 <+sadimusi> I didn't think anybody would install all the dependencies by hand ;)
09:07 < feep> okay, got a log :D
09:07 < feep> sadimusi: ah ^^
09:08 < feep> okay so here's my connect log https://gist.github.com/5668470
09:08 < feep> oh, continuous should probably be true
09:09 < feep> ......... oh. and there we go. :D
09:09 < feep> yaylandscape
09:10 < feep> man, such a silly error.
09:25 < feep> hey, what's the exact ordering for the block data?
09:25 < feep> I'm assuming low to high, right?
09:27 < mh0> Guys, is mcstats.org down?
09:27 < feep> works here
09:27 < mh0> I wonder if it's just me getting 404's and my server getting 503's
09:27 < mh0> hm
09:27 <+pdelvo> works
09:27 < mh0> I'll retry :P
09:28 < mh0> Oh, works again
09:28 < mh0> That was strange, probably updating something as I viewed a page
09:32 < feep> okay so the question I have is
09:33 < feep> is the chunk data in 0x33 16 individual chunks, each with their own type, metadata, light arrays
09:33 < feep> or is it "the entire chunk data", "the entire metadata", "the entire light data"
09:34 < feep> the wiki is a bit ambiguous
09:34 < feep> > In 0x33, it describes of a single chunk column in the format below. 
09:36 < feep> hey, why IS the lighting serverside?
09:36 < feep> that's a bit strange come to think of it.
09:38 <+ammar2> feep: well the server does need to know light conditions for growth etc
09:38 < feep> ammar2: hm, that makes sense
09:39 < feep> anyway, about the arrays?
09:39 < feep> .... it'd have to be entire arrays.
09:39 < feep> because the biome data is a complete array and it's listed in this table
09:40 < feep> okay
09:42 < feep> terrain get! :D
09:45 < DemoXin> What are you making feep?
09:45 < feep> DemoXin: working on getting an old server up to 1.5.2 :D
09:45 < DemoXin> Ah.
09:45 < DemoXin> I'm writing one from scratch, lol
09:45 < feep> yeah same
09:46 < feep> well it's an old server written from scratch
09:46 < DemoXin> And actually, right this minute I'm working on a PHP site..
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09:52 < feep> hey, what's the current way to spawn a floating item?
09:53 < feep> 0x15 doesn't seem to exist anymore
09:54 < feep> is it 0x17?
09:58 < AnotherOne> mb
09:59 < AnotherOne> to make them fly just dont let them fall, i think
10:04 < feep> I mean an item in general
10:04 < feep> but I think I found my bug :D
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11:19 < dx> 03:33 < feep> dx: advice?
11:19 < dx> i just woke up and have no idea what kind of advice you're looking for
11:20 < dx> so i'll just say the first thing that comes to mind
11:20 < dx> feep: reach for the sky, because tomorrow may never come.
11:20 < jast> never eat yellow snow
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11:20 < dx> that one works too
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11:23 < DemoXin> Is allocating a an array of 16000 pointers not going to cause me issues or at the very least, slow allocation?
11:23 < DemoXin> allocating an array*
11:25 < DemoXin> That's 8 bytes per pointer on a 64-bit system... That's like 150kB
11:25 < jast> yeah, but if you need 16000 pointers you need 16000 pointers... right?
11:25 < jast> 150 KB isn't that much
11:25 < dx> ^
11:25 < DemoXin> No, but accessing them will be slow as hell...
11:25 < dx> errr what
11:26 < DemoXin> right?
11:26 < jast> why?
11:26 < jast> it's RAM
11:26 < DemoXin> Yes, but I'm talking about accessing them 100+ times per second...
11:26 < dx> no, you can assume ram access always costs the same (there are a few details that can make it slower but ignore them)
11:26 < jast> I mean, if we go into the small details, there are cache coherency issues to consider, but you can mostly forget about that with minecraft, anyway
11:26 < jast> how about you tell us what you're trying to do
11:27 < DemoXin> I'm working out the fastest way to store statically sized maps.
11:27 < dx> premature optimization dayum
11:27 < DemoXin> Not for what I'm doing.  I'm writing a server designed to handle multiple instances of minecraft maps.
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11:28 < DemoXin> I'm trying to make the best of the fact that I'll know beforehand how big a map is, even if not exactly what it contains.
11:28 <+pdelvo> you think 100 x accessing the ram in a second is much?
11:28 <+pdelvo> if your ram has an acces time of 50ns you can acces it 20 million times a second
11:28 < DemoXin> 100x/s per instance.
11:29 <+pdelvo> so you can have 200.000 instances
11:29 < DemoXin> The idea I'm working on is that chunks are stored in a (pseudo) 2 dimensional array
11:31 < DemoXin> well, Chunk* is stored in the array anyways, then it figures out the block needed from x%16, z%16, and height.
11:31 < feep> dx: it's okay, I fixed it :D
11:31 < dx> feep: :D
11:31 < feep> dx: chat works, multiplayers work
11:31 < feep> item entities do not work QUITE yet.
11:31 < DemoXin> feep: Fixed or not, you still shouldn't eat the yellow snow.
11:31 < dx> feep: QUITE.
11:32 <+pdelvo> btw I used a access time of 50ns which is higher then todays ram do. they are about 20ns
11:32 < DemoXin> Okay, I won't worry about that then.
11:33 < DemoXin> My concern is just creating a ridiculously bloated map system that affords me none of the benefits and all the disadvantages of chunks on the HDD
11:33 < DemoXin> So I'm questioning everything I devise.
11:33 < dx> pdelvo: is it wrong to think that caring about these numbers is not needed at all? (except for this situation in which he thinks ram access is expensive)
11:34 < shoghicp> dx: hi!
11:34 < dx> shoghicp: HELLO!
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11:34 < jast> well, there is nothing faster than RAM (not counting the caches), so if you _need_ the pointers you don't really have any other options :)
11:34 <+pdelvo> I wanted to show him that it is not as expensive as he thinks. the dimensions he is working with are ridiculous in terms of ram speed
11:35 < DemoXin> Okay, fair enough.  I'll just hack away and be quiet. :)
11:35 < DemoXin> Optimize after it works I suppose.
11:35 < shoghicp> dx: any testing done?
11:35 < dx> shoghicp: NEVER!
11:35 < shoghicp> dx: GOOD!
11:35 < dx> pdelvo: yeah, i know. putting it in a different way: is it wrong for me to completely ignore ram performance and just assume it's the fastest thing ever?
11:36 < dx> shoghicp: I KNOW, TESTING IS THE WORST THING EVER
11:36 < DemoXin> dx: At least I figured out that the HDD is slow. :/
11:36 <+pdelvo> do it this way until you are actually having problems with it. premature optimization is the root of all evil ;)
11:36 <+md_5> hm
11:36 <+pdelvo> testing is for failers who have bugs in their code
11:36 <+md_5> can we store our map in the L2 cache?
11:37 < dx> md_5: oh you
11:37 < DemoXin> md_5: Only if it's really small...
11:37 <+md_5> pft
11:37 <+md_5> some cpus have megabytes of that shit
11:37 <+md_5> MEGABYTES
11:37 < DemoXin> haha
11:37 <+pdelvo> you can not force your map to be there, but it could be that your OS is smart enough to put some of your data there
11:38 < DemoXin> good, maybe it'll figure out my chunkmaps need to go in.
11:38 < dx> write a kernel module to put the map there
11:38 < DemoXin> time to put away PHP and work with it's big brother...
11:39 <+md_5> dx you would have to try and write straight into some cpu registers, I dont think any CPUs allow forcing stuff there though
11:39 < dx> i always thought the cpu cache was managed internally by the cpu and nothing else
11:39 <+md_5> yah
11:39 < dx> md_5: oh ok
11:39 <+md_5> hence its unlikely you can make the cpu put stuff there
11:39 <+md_5> (I was joking when I suggested we do it)
11:39 < dx> yeah i know :D
11:39 <+pdelvo> the L2 is propably a bit too small :D
11:39 < DemoXin> Everyone got their jokes about me out now? :P
11:39 <+md_5> pdelvo easy
11:40 <+md_5> L3
11:40 <+pdelvo> I got 4x 256kb l2 cache
11:40 <+md_5> problem solved!
11:40 < dx> is L3 used in recent processors too?
11:40 <+pdelvo> jeah! no one will ever use more then 8mb!
11:40 <+pdelvo> My one has 8mb l3 cache
11:40 < dx> for some reason i remember seeing it in specs of older ones but not recently
11:40 < dx> pdelvo: oh neat
11:40 <+pdelvo> i7 3770k -> 8mb L3 cache
11:40 <+md_5> only 4mb for me
11:40 <+md_5> D:
11:40 <+md_5> you and your fancy cpus
11:41 <+md_5> my system isnt that powerful because I dont need it to be.  dont game and I dontpirate
11:41 <+md_5> Ive only used ~200gb of storage space. Doing clean ubuntu install next week so it will drop to ~100gb
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11:46 <+pdelvo> I have an idea. write your server in hlsl or glsl. you massive performance there and a pretty fast ram too :D
11:48 <+md_5> pdelvo nah header files are good enough for me
11:49 < jast> glsl <-> header files?
11:49  * jast scratches head
11:49 < dx> lol guys stop that
11:50 <+pdelvo> no!
11:51 < dx> the boss doesn't approve of our silliness
11:51 <+pdelvo> glsl is opengls shader language. a gpu is a lot faster then a cpu :D what would be cool to is to use intels integrated graphics. it is not that powerfull, but really close the the cpu which can be a real advantage
11:51 < jast> or AMD's APUs
11:54 <+pdelvo> a hd 3000 integrated graphics beats the top nvidea graphics card in video encoding by factor 4 which is pretty impressive http://media.bestofmicro.com/5/N/274955/original/CyberLink%20MediaEspresso.png I dont know how fast amds apus are
11:56 < jast> hardware-accelerated video encoding can't beat x264 in terms of encode quality, though
11:56 < jast> it's not even close from what I've heard
11:56 < dx> encode quality is affected? interesting
11:57 < jast> well, H.264 is pretty complex
11:57 < DemoXin> Yeah, QuickSync is ridiculously fast, but it's really bad quality wise.
11:57 < jast> the quality strongly depends on the exact algorithms, the psychovisual model, etc.
11:57 < DemoXin> That one is coming from personal experience.
11:57 <+pdelvo> there is a comparism on that page: http://www.anandtech.com/show/5771/the-intel-ivy-bridge-core-i7-3770k-review/21#
11:57 < jast> nothing can match x264 in terms of psychovisual stuff
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11:59 < broepi> hi to you people
12:00 <+pdelvo> hey. how are you?
12:00 < dx> hi
12:00 < broepi> fine, fine
12:01 < broepi> does someone know why a SpawnMob-packet would have a Type of -1 ?
12:01 < broepi> I'm about to write parsing-code for the protocol-packets
12:03 <+md_5>  check your sign and endianness
12:05 < broepi> the Type-field should be a signed byte, right?
12:06 <+md_5> nope
12:06 <+md_5> unsigned, big endiam
12:06 <+pdelvo> endianess does not matter if it is a byte
12:07 <+md_5> pdelvo true
12:07 <+md_5> :p
12:07 <+md_5> but he would run into issues very quickly :p
12:07 <+pdelvo> :D
12:09 < broepi> okay but unsigned it would be 128, therefore an unknown mobtype
12:10 <+md_5> signed &0xFF -> unisgned 
12:10 < unnicked035> <pdelvo> endianess does not matter if it is a byte
12:11 < unnicked035> i actually got problems until i switched endianness
12:11 < unnicked035> and that was a single byte
12:11 < unnicked035> o.O
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12:11 <+ammar2> Brandon15811: how exactly do you have an unsigned value of -1?
12:11 <+ammar2> or did you mean 0
12:11 < broepi> maybe it's best i just give you a pastebin: http://pastebin.com/Ekhiw1rK
12:11 < dx> broepi, not Brandon15811
12:12 <+ammar2> err, yeah sorry
12:12 < broepi> notice the recv_* functions
12:12 < broepi> it's in python
12:12 <+pdelvo> endianess determs theorder bytes are sent  for a specific type. Now try to sort a single byte :)
12:13 < unnicked035> pdelvo: i switched the bits, i.e. 10101000 to 00010101
12:13 < unnicked035> and that worked
12:15 < unnicked035> just joking :)
12:16 <+pdelvo> thats not funny!
12:18 < dx> yeah, my brother died that way
12:19 < unnicked035> lol
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12:33 < AnotherOne> omgwtf
12:33 < AnotherOne> yeah, let's mirror bits!:D
12:35 < broepi> first thing after a little nap
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12:40 < unnicked035> AnotherOne: i wouldn't be surprised if java did that
12:40 < unnicked035> not at all
12:40 < AnotherOne> lol:D
12:41 < AnotherOne> we all like java i see
12:41 < broepi> what prog langs do you all use?
12:41 < AnotherOne> C++
12:42 < unnicked035> malborge
12:42 < TobiX> unnicked035: Finished Hello world?
12:42 < AnotherOne> php
12:43 <+Fador> vhdl
12:43 < AnotherOne> for client
12:43 < unnicked035> TobiX: almost finished mc client
12:43 < AnotherOne> imagine php mc client
12:43 < broepi> AnotherOne: interesting, you have something to show?
12:44 < AnotherOne> just joking:)
12:44 < unnicked035> iirc shoghicp actually did php mc client
12:44 < broepi> but a client in html5+ajax would be cool
12:44 < shoghicp> hey
12:44 < AnotherOne> omfg
12:44 < TobiX> AnotherOne: http://sourceforge.net/projects/phpopengl/
12:44 < unnicked035> broepi: websockets
12:44 < shoghicp> AnotherOne: https://github.com/shoghicp/Minecraft-PHP-Client-2
12:45 < shoghicp> A bit outdated after 1.5
12:45 < AnotherOne> goddamnit
12:45 < AnotherOne> "we do because we can"?
12:45 < shoghicp> sure xD
12:46 < shoghicp> AnotherOne: https://github.com/PocketMine/PocketMine-MP
12:47 < AnotherOne> hehe
12:47 < AnotherOne> you should try bash client
12:48 < AnotherOne> with ascii-graphics
12:49 < dav1d> you would need a minecraft-websockets bridge
12:50 < TobiX> AnotherOne: I once saw a sokoban in pure bash...
12:50 < unnicked035> AnotherOne: sed client would be more hardcore
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12:54 < AnotherOne> if you want hardcode, what about pure socket, hex-dumping to screen and 2 buttons for 1 and 0
12:54 < shoghicp> AnotherOne: I could do that
12:55 < AnotherOne> in a year you will be able to play this way
12:55 < shoghicp> No, as a server
12:55 < AnotherOne> oh lol
12:55 < shoghicp> sending chunks & everything else
12:56 < AnotherOne> specially trained slaves will host your server with no lag!
12:58 < unnicked035> hmm i like the idea
12:59 < shoghicp> http://www.google.es/technology/pigeonrank.html
12:59 < unnicked035> not with slaves, but with abstracted neural network
12:59 < unnicked035> its motivations willl be to keep clients connected for as long as possible
12:59 < unnicked035> on disconnects it will feel pain
13:00 < unnicked035> so it should adapt itself to something stable
13:00 < shoghicp> Like GLaDOS, doing tests give pleasure xD
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13:04 < unnicked035> neural network should learn protocol in time, right? i mean - at first it will send random stuff and clients will disconnect, it will then feel suffering and change its synapses chaotically until suffering decreases and ends
13:05 < unnicked035> which means - in time it should come to some stable protocol variant
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13:05 < unnicked035> ( encryption/decryption may be handled externally )
13:05 < unnicked035> any objections?
13:05 < AnotherOne> you will receive total black box
13:06 < unnicked035> AnotherOne: yes, but then the second phase of learning starts
13:06 < unnicked035> i.e. sending it signals like "good" and "bad" somehow (not via minecraft)
13:06 < unnicked035> i.e. if it showed some nice blocks -> send "good"
13:06 < unnicked035> if everything will go right, we can have a sentient world
13:07 < unnicked035> anybody interested in participating?
13:07 < AnotherOne> try it:)
13:07 < unnicked035> AnotherOne: or, by black box you meant something that can't be understood?
13:07 < unnicked035> well that's the whole point
13:07 < AnotherOne> yes
13:07 < unnicked035> it will 'think out' the world and everything in unpredictable way
13:07 < unnicked035> which will make it interesting
13:10 < AnotherOne> damnit man
13:11 < AnotherOne> now i'm thinking of some weird world generator
13:11 < unnicked035> everything will be infinitely weird
13:11 < unnicked035> though i predict stuff spawning/despawning/teleporting chaotically at first
13:12 < unnicked035> the point is - neural network may learn to entertain players to keep them connected
13:12 < unnicked035> after that it will become intelligent
13:12 < AnotherOne> well, if you are familiar with neural networks, try it
13:12 < AnotherOne> sure i'll participate if this is real
13:17 < unnicked035> any cons or impossibilities you can think of?
13:18 < AnotherOne> time
13:19 < AnotherOne> how many connected people will it need to start giving something reasonable?
13:20 < unnicked035> i think 1 will be enough for start
13:20 < unnicked035> time - no idea, really
13:20 < unnicked035> depends on luck and learning quality ("good"/"bad" etc)
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13:56 < jast> unnicked035: I believe you're talking about reinforcement learning and not about neural networks in general
13:57 < jast> neural networks are one possible parameterized function you can use in reinforcement learning, but there are many alternatives
13:57 < jast> neural networks by themselves don't learn over time, but typically in a distinct training phase
13:59 < jast> in any case, the main challenges are feature selection and deciding what exactly the various outputs will do :)
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14:21 < dx> talking creepers confirmed for the next snapshot
14:21 < dx> priorities etc
14:22 < dx> (this is what jeb actually said https://twitter.com/jeb_/status/339713672849014786 )
14:28 < unnicked035> jast: right, by "neural network" i meant some kind of AI
14:29 < unnicked035> that can do predictions and has motivation
14:33 < jast> dx: or testificates
14:34 < dx> jast: that would make too much sense
14:34 < dx> jast: i doubt it
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15:22 <+pdelvo> horses do not make any sound till now
15:25 <+pdelvo> my motherboard tool just noticed me that my cpu is at -58 degree
15:25 < AnotherOne> RUN FOR YOUR LIFE
15:26 <+pdelvo> the winter is back :o
15:27 < AnotherOne> what about overflow?
15:27 < AnotherOne> though your PC must power off if it is too hot
15:28 <+pdelvo> now it is up to -48 :D
15:28 < TobiX> pdelvo: So, 197 degrees? (signed byte overflow)
15:28 <+pdelvo> I see no fog in the case, so I dont think so
15:29 < TobiX> pdelvo: "Magic smoke didn't breach containment yet!"
15:32 < unnicked035> pdelvo: what cooling system do you use?
15:33 <+pdelvo> I have the default cooler mounted. Watercooling is coming soon, but now Im scared to use water. It could turn into ice
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15:59 < unnicked035> http://nessus.lv/ourteam - LOL
15:59 < unnicked035> is he serious?
15:59 < unnicked035> ( found in Server_List @wiki )
16:00 < dx> ..:V
16:00 < AnotherOne> heh
16:01 < AnotherOne> nice
16:04 < mbaxter> bunnehs!
16:04 < TobiX> Ani-GIFs! Let's party like it's 1995!
16:05 < Calinou> APNG FOREVER
16:05 < Calinou> JIM MORRISON FOREVER
16:08 < dx> unnicked035: did you read the design philosophy of his server too?
16:09 < dx> unnicked035: most of us found it "interesting" to say the least. give it a read and tell us what you think!
16:09 <+pdelvo> he haz Dreamz!
16:10 < Calinou> no u
16:10 < unnicked035> dx: link?
16:11 < dx> unnicked035: the same one in the server list page lol
16:11 < unnicked035> ah, that
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16:21 < barneygale> testificates should sound like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgVJC9eNb-g#t=43s
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16:53 < AnotherOne> http://lurkmore.so/images/2/23/Phd051809s.png
16:56 < Yoshi2> it's not a cycle because it stops at the last step
16:59 < dx> it's cooler if you put it in a circle though
17:00 < dx> Yoshi2: actually it reaches "your grandma"
17:03 < Yoshi2> dx: yes, it reaches "your grandma" and stops there
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17:05 < unnicked035> brain is electromagnetic organ, isn't it?
17:05 < unnicked035> why can't it be influenced by arbitrary electromagnetic fields?
17:06 < unnicked035> i think they are hiding something.
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17:09 < unnicked035> http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/haarp_mind_weather_control.htm
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17:15 < unnicked035> also, http://www.playasonly.com/haarp-mind-control/
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17:23 < AnotherOne> unnicked035: lol, usual propaganda is much more effective than "mind controller"
17:25 < AnotherOne> and human mind is a little more complex than just an electromagnet
17:25 < unnicked035> AnotherOne: usual propaganda doesn't affect the most dangerous opposers of world order
17:26 < AnotherOne> trying to use field-based devices to control mind is like playing minecraft with 1 and 0 buttons 
17:26 < unnicked035> AnotherOne: suppressing brain activity is easy enough though
17:26 < unnicked035> and then propaganda comes in
17:27 < unnicked035> i feel like somebody is tampering with processes in my brain even now
17:27 < AnotherOne> paranoia is great
17:27 < AnotherOne> i have it too
17:27 < unnicked035> paranoia does not exist :)
17:27 < unnicked035> its a made up diagnosis
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17:28 < AnotherOne> and world is ruled by ZOG
17:28 < unnicked035> a sickness is something that brings some harm to person
17:28 < unnicked035> "paranoia" doesn't bring harm
17:28 < AnotherOne> yes it does
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17:28 < unnicked035> AnotherOne: did you know there is even "ariphmetic calculation disorder" which is a diagnosis too?
17:28 < AnotherOne> mental harm
17:28 < unnicked035> you can't just trust the psychiatry
17:29 < unnicked035> AnotherOne: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvdBSSUviys
17:29 < unnicked035> consider watching, it reveals the truth about psychiatry
17:29 < AnotherOne> oh damn
17:29 < AnotherOne> there are 2 sides
17:29 < AnotherOne> or even more
17:30 < unnicked035> sides?
17:30 < AnotherOne> it is like saying that cops are murderers because they have guns and criminals have guns too
17:30 < AnotherOne> psychatry is a tool
17:31 < unnicked035> AnotherOne: the whole idea of "mental disorder" is wrong
17:31 < unnicked035> brain is a neural network
17:31 < AnotherOne> that can be used both for heal and harm
17:31 < unnicked035> how can you tell if neural network is operating right or not
17:31 < unnicked035> especially if you don't see the internals
17:31 < unnicked035> i may agree that person that kills everybody is sight should be isolated
17:32 < AnotherOne> by comparison
17:32 < unnicked035> but paranoia or ariphmetic calculation disorder do not influence the society
17:32 < AnotherOne> to mass
17:32 < unnicked035> AnotherOne: right
17:32 < unnicked035> but why they try to make everybody similar to the mass?
17:32 < AnotherOne> what if we confuse paranoia and wariness?
17:33 < unnicked035> paranoia IS wariness
17:33 < unnicked035> if not, please provide the differences
17:33 < AnotherOne> i build my minecraft houses in mineshafts
17:34 < AnotherOne> and reinforce doors with obsidian so no one can push block under door with pistons
17:34 < AnotherOne> is it paranoia?
17:35 < unnicked035> to my opinion, there is no paranoia
17:35 < unnicked035> there is only wariness
17:35 < unnicked035> so your question is easy to answer for me
17:37 < AnotherOne> but what if i think that admin is in my house stealthed and waiting for me to start using xray?
17:37 < AnotherOne> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoia
17:38 < AnotherOne> just read wiki:)
17:39 < unnicked035> AnotherOne: there is no natural line between wariness and paranoia
17:39 < unnicked035> the System draws the line at t he point where wariness becomes dangerous for its existance
17:39 < unnicked035> and then uses mass media to persuade the masses
17:39 < unnicked035> that such disorder exists
17:40 < unnicked035> so people had internal blocks of wariness extension
17:40 < unnicked035> and that's what is happening now
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17:46 < AnotherOne> still thinking that everyone is watching you is clearly not ok
17:55 < AnotherOne> unnicked035: what if i am a part of the System?
17:55 < AnotherOne> and came here to get you
18:10 < AnotherOne> and one more
18:10 < AnotherOne> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyscalculia
18:12 < AnotherOne> Math disabilities can occur as the result of some types of brain injury, in which case the proper term is acalculia, to distinguish it from dyscalculia which is of innate, genetic or developmental origin.
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18:35 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 2 commits to refactoring [+135/-0/±3] http://git.io/jytQdg
18:35 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn b05ed79 - Generated all 1.5.2 block classes
18:35 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 4effc27 - Update readme
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19:30 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to refactoring [+1/-0/±5] http://git.io/yK5AXA
19:30 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 424934a - Fleshed out Block classes
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19:57 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to refactoring [+8/-0/±8] http://git.io/nFkrXw
19:57 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn db97e8b - Added Craft.Net.Entities and window management
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20:17 < AnotherOne> let's discuss the stealthest house
20:17 < AnotherOne> im thinking about one above nether's ceiling
20:18 < AnotherOne> and with exit portals
20:18 < AnotherOne> + extra portals to prevent teleportation to that house from overworld
20:22 < shoghicp> dx: If you want to test it, there is a new compile plugin ;)
20:22 < dx> shoghicp: plugin?
20:22 < shoghicp> dx: fuu, script
20:22 < dx> shoghicp: lolol
20:22 < shoghicp> dx: https://gist.github.com/shoghicp/aefb213ef8337adf08a8
20:23 < shoghicp> dx: so... ./compile crosscompile android
20:23 < dx> shoghicp: gotcha. a bit busy with other stuff today, so maybe later i'll have a look
20:23 < shoghicp> ok!
20:25 < dx> i'm not sure if you can always assume "arm-none-linux-gnueabi" though
20:26 < shoghicp> that is Brandon15811 fault ;)
20:26 < shoghicp> though he is fixing that script again right now xD
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20:27 < Brandon15811> dx, I just used the toolchain prefix
20:28 < dx> Brandon15811: i'm saying that other toolchains have different prefixes
20:28 < dx> Brandon15811: doesn't really matter
20:28 < Brandon15811> is there something else I should use?
20:29 < Brandon15811> shoghicp, you forgot to set CC for a regular linux compile
20:29 < shoghicp> I set it to "gcc"
20:29 < shoghicp> oh
20:29 < shoghicp> right
20:29 < Brandon15811> xD
20:30 < shoghicp> done
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22:32 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to refactoring [+30/-101/±22] http://git.io/QtF-vA
22:32 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 72ac441 - Craft.Net.Data -> Craft.Net.Common
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02:39 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 2 commits to refactoring [+20/-0/±11] http://git.io/pVi_nw
02:39 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 1c63a9d - Started on Craft.Net.Server rewrite
02:39 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 6722dee - Started on Craft.Net.Server rewrite
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03:33 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to refactoring [+6/-0/±17] http://git.io/ZRKjGg
03:33 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 851046a - Reimplemented block placement/mining
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04:54 <+AndrewPH> TkTech: I googled 360pi once and now it's every other ad for me on youtube :(
05:09 < TkTech> AndrewPH: Huh? We have ads?
05:09 <+AndrewPH> Apparently!
05:09 <+AndrewPH> http://i.imgur.com/CN1YQpO.jpg
05:13 <+AndrewPH> TkTech: weird that it's popping up all over even though I only searched /once/ to see what it was. I search for a lot of things...
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05:14 < TkTech> Heh. Not my department.
05:15 < TkTech> Marketing is the archenemy of development and production at any company.
05:15 <+AndrewPH> lol
05:20 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to refactoring [+1/-0/±7] http://git.io/Ch7iSw
05:20 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 0643ca8 - Show blocks digging from other clients
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07:31 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 3 commits to refactoring [+9/-0/±24] http://git.io/c2jHjA
07:31 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn f3601eb - Added Craft.Net.Physics
07:31 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 64f9923 - Added dropped items and physics engine
07:31 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 52b44bd - Cleaned up event handlers on disconnect to avoid leaks
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07:57 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to refactoring [+0/-0/±4] http://git.io/teUPtA
07:57 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 11914b7 - Fixed bug with empty held items
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08:50 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to refactoring [+0/-0/±4] http://git.io/jIxidQ
08:50 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn ca33ffd - Implemented item entity merging
09:01 < AnotherOne> AndrewPH: adblock ftw
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10:31 <+md_5> Showing 76 changed files with 1,270 additions and 1,215 deletions. 
10:31 <+md_5> everybody loves refactors
10:31 <+md_5> not even doneyet
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10:53 < AnotherOne> heh
10:53 < AnotherOne> fukk refactors
10:54 < AnotherOne> make code generator:)
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11:08 < Yoshi2> and then you will be refactoring the code created by the code generator
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11:38 < AnotherOne> no
11:38 < AnotherOne> let it refactor code for you
11:38 < AnotherOne> sure you may need to change something
11:38 < AnotherOne> but it will be less work
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13:56 < unnicked035> http://www.youtube.com/user/Pbunny o.O
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13:57 < dx> are you stalking him or what
13:57 < dx> why do you even care
13:58 < dx> i'd prefer to forget about him already
13:58 < unnicked035> i like googling people of irc
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14:06 < AnotherOne> did you google me?:)
14:07  * unnicked035 added AnotherOne to nicknames2google list
14:08 < dx> http://dx.com/
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14:09 < Yoshi2> you almost got me there, dx
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14:10 < dx> :D
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14:11 < AnotherOne> hey unnicked035
14:12 < AnotherOne> now i know the source of your paranoia
14:12 < dx> unique'd
14:14 < unnicked035> AnotherOne: paranoia does not exist
14:14 < AnotherOne> yes it does:)
14:15 < AnotherOne> did you succeed googling me?
14:16 < unnicked035> not yet
14:16 < unnicked035> AnotherOne: there are just degrees of 'likelyness'
14:17 < dx> someone is too bored.
14:17 < unnicked035> the most efficient behavior is to assume the most likely events and not assume the less likely
14:17 < unnicked035> determining likelyness is based on various knowledge about the subject
14:18 < unnicked035> and as only you possess the whole picture of knowledge you possess, no external person can determine efficiency of your behavior
14:18 < dx> s/ly/li/
14:18 < unnicked035> what may seem unlikely to him may seem likely to you if you have reasons for that
14:19 < unnicked035> so, paranoia (inefficient behavior) of any person can't be actually detected from outside
14:20 < dx> i was thinking s/ness/hood/ too, but the dictionary tells me it's valid
14:20 < dx> til.
14:20 < unnicked035> grammar isn't that significant dx
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18:32 < shoghicp> got a question :D
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18:32 < shoghicp> Anyone knows the speed of dropped items?
18:32 < shoghicp> X,Y,Z speed
18:32 < shoghicp> (I know it is partially random)
18:33 <+pdelvo> I think i done some experiments about a year ago to messure that
18:33 <+pdelvo> btw you dont have a speed there
18:33 <+pdelvo> you have the acceleration
18:33 < shoghicp> I give them some speed at spawn, then the gravity & drag do they job
18:34 < shoghicp> It was hilarious, a flower popping up to 50 blocks xD
18:34 <+pdelvo> jeah. I think i have the minecraft gravity in a project as a constant
18:34 < shoghicp> pdelvo: right
18:34 < shoghicp> I've that implemented
18:34 <+pdelvo> public const double Gravity = -18.0;
18:35 <+pdelvo> Im not sure if it i
18:35 < shoghicp> But item starting speed is randomized
18:35 < eddyb> what's the unit?
18:35 <+pdelvo> s right
18:35 <+pdelvo> blocks/s
18:35 < shoghicp> pdelvo: varies by entity class
18:35 <+pdelvo> oops
18:35 <+pdelvo> block/s²
18:35 <+clonejo> blocks/tick?
18:35 <+pdelvo> blocks/second²
18:35 < shoghicp> second^2
18:35 < eddyb> it doesn't look earthish :(
18:35 <+clonejo> that would make it 9m/s^2 which is similar to Earth's gravity
18:35 < eddyb> what would? ticks?
18:36 <+clonejo> blocks/tickº
18:36 < eddyb> the 20/s render ticks?
18:36 < eddyb> I've only heard about the 10/s redstone ones in a looong while
18:36 <+clonejo> eddyb: no, it wouldn't
18:36 <+pdelvo> a redstone tick is 2 game ticks
18:37 < shoghicp> Ok, I'll give them random values and print the value, then choose the one that looks fine
18:37 < eddyb> pdelvo: yeah, I wasn't sure which kind of ticks you were using
18:37 <+pdelvo> My value is messured in seconds
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18:47 < AnotherOne> wtf mojang
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18:57 < AnotherOne> i have a question, people
18:57 < AnotherOne> http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Armor#Enchantments
18:58 < AnotherOne> When a player or mob wearing armor is subjected to damage, the EPFs of all applicable enchantments are added together, capped at 25, multiplied by a random value between 50% and 100%, rounded up, and capped again at 20. The damage is then reduced by 4% per point of total effective EPF (for example, a total effective EPF of 20 reduces damage by 80%).
18:58 < AnotherOne> how is EPF being rounded after multiplication?
18:59 < AnotherOne> floor or ceil or < 0.5 floor, >= ceil?
19:01 < AnotherOne> ok, round up is ceiling
19:23 < Flemmard> floor = bottom, ceil (ceiling) = top
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20:28 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 6 commits to master [+1/-0/±17] http://git.io/0GyQ5g
20:28 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath cf85c10 - LightInfo pooling (disabled for speed reasons)
20:28 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 30c3040 - Reduced chunk memory usage (Causes some light glitches)
20:28 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 45bc870 - Sped up chunk loading/saving which also fixed the lighting glitches somehow (o_O)
20:28 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath dfe2d8c - Fixed world corruption
20:28 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 48f0a85 - Fix light spreading. Light debugging added until fixed
20:28 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath e83d5ad - Attempt at fixing light removal issues
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21:39 <+Amaranth> Thinkofdeath: Do you only wipe out empty chunk sections if they don't have any chunk sections above them?
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22:43 < Thinkofdeath> Amaranth: I wipe them out if they're all air blocks and if there is no light passing through them
22:44 <+Amaranth> Thinkofdeath: Doesn't that mean you'll run into https://mojang.atlassian.net/browse/MC-911 too?
22:46 < Thinkofdeath> It shouldn't happen underground because I check skylight as well, making sure its all 15 for skylight and all 0 for blocklight
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23:15 < Thinkofdeath> Amaranth: Just tested, It doesn't seem to be an issue http://i.imgur.com/UNdd0YH.png (Although I have managed to get the lighting backwards somehow...)
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00:43 <+AndrewPH> TkTech: okay so I started my first 'big' mvc project the other day using django, I'm really a fan of using mvc/mvc-like systems! I wonder why I've never done this before for big things
00:43 <+AndrewPH> (and django's pretty handy)
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03:20 < kiwhen> What's the correct format to use for MC packets in PHP? What should they look like in terms of field names and such?
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07:43 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2008 2 files : Added /Flush as an alias for /WFlush. Fixed /WFlush help and some CHANGELOG typos. /WBuild and /WAccess can now take "@" in front of rank name.
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09:37 < AnotherOne> anybody here?
09:38 < AnotherOne> http://pastebin.com/mC4xQTkU
09:39 < AnotherOne> im making a damage calculator and results are strange, though expected
09:40 < AnotherOne> but are they correct?
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17:13 < AnotherOne> evening
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19:44 < AnotherOne> how is damage reduce rounded on not enchanted armor?
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00:49 < kiwhen> Anyone awake?
00:49 <+sadimusi> o/
00:49 < dav1d> yes
00:49 < kiwhen> Hi!
00:49 < dav1d> Hi!
00:50 < kiwhen> I'm a bit stomped by the MC protocol. I get the idea, but I can't figure out how to format the messages I'm sending properly.
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00:50 <+sadimusi> what language are you using?
00:50 < kiwhen> I'm using PHP.
00:50 < dav1d> NOOO
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00:50 < dav1d> why did I know that
00:50 < kiwhen> Yeah, I know.
00:51 < dx> you're out of luck
00:51 < dav1d> our php guy just left
00:51 <+sadimusi> somehow I suspected it too ,.,
00:51 < dx> shoghicp just quit
00:51 < dav1d>         <-- | shoghicp 
00:51 <+sadimusi> *-.-
00:51 < kiwhen> But really, I am getting through, the format is just off.
00:51 < dx> i suspected it was an awful language
00:51 < dav1d> well in this case I would say it's PHPs fault
00:51 < dav1d> Always blame PHP first
00:51 < dx> ^
00:51 < kiwhen> Oh no, I just don't know what the packets should look like.
00:51 < dav1d> kiwhen: can you show us some code and where you think it fails?
00:52 < dx> sadimusi: renaming mc3p to mc4p when? :3
00:52 < kiwhen> Delimiters, for example.
00:52 < dav1d> or do you have a specific question
00:52 <+sadimusi> dx: oh right
00:52 <+sadimusi> dx: only 4 ms?
00:52 <+sadimusi> *ps
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00:52 < dav1d> kiwhen: there are no delimiters
00:52 < kiwhen> So there is a fixed length on the fields?
00:52 < dav1d> kiwhen: yes
00:52 < dx> sadimusi: well you can go for more, but i think 4 is good for the successor
00:52 < kiwhen> 64 bytes for strings?
00:52 < dav1d> kiwhen: no
00:52 <+sadimusi> kiwhen: what are you trying to build?
00:53 < dav1d> kiwhen: prefixed with a ushort as length
00:53 <+sadimusi> kiwhen: http://www.wiki.vg/Data_Types
00:53 < kiwhen> I'm just trying to grab the online list (the TAB-stuff).
00:53 < dav1d> kiwhen: http://wiki.vg/Protocol
00:53 < dav1d> everything is there ^
00:53 < dav1d> easy
00:53 < dav1d> I think even php code exists for that
00:53 < dx> we should just dig shoghicp's github and find example code
00:53 < kiwhen> Okay, so basically; First, the packet ID, then the length of the following field, not including the actual field name?
00:54 < dav1d> kiwhen: http://wiki.vg/Server_List_Ping 
00:54 < dav1d> the php code links to bukkit and seems to be an invalid url
00:54 < dav1d> kiwhen: https://gist.github.com/barneygale/1209061 - python
00:54 < dx> the url is correct
00:54 < kiwhen> Like, "2, 6, kiwhen, 2, hello, 4 dude" and so on?
00:54 < dx> but seems to require login
00:55 < Thinkofdeath> Isn't http://wiki.vg/Query better if your just trying to a list of players?
00:55 < dav1d> Thinkofdeath: query isn't enabled by default?
00:55 < dx> https://github.com/xPaw/PHP-Minecraft-Query/blob/master/MinecraftQuery_Simple.php
00:55 < Thinkofdeath> dav1d: Ah true
00:55 <+sadimusi> dav1d: you won't get the player list with the ping thingy
00:55 < dav1d> sadimusi: I do
00:55 < dav1d> not
00:55 < dav1d> you're right
00:55 < kiwhen> Getting the number of players is easy, I just want more details.
00:56 < dx> https://github.com/xPaw/PHP-Minecraft-Query/blob/master/MinecraftQuery.class.php
00:56 < kiwhen> Hopefully without causing a login-message to be displayed ingame.
00:56 <+sadimusi> kiwhen: you do know that you will have to implement some custom encryption stuff, right?
00:56 < dav1d> kiwhen: what dx just linked
00:56 < kiwhen> I know I can skip the whole encryption-thing, so I could propably just handshake, get the list and get out.
00:56 < dav1d> but you need to enable it in the server config
00:57 <+sadimusi> you can't just skip it, you won't get the player list before the handshake
00:57 < barneygale> iirc the client can opt not to do the encryption
00:57 < dav1d> how can this code have 74 forks? https://github.com/xPaw/PHP-Minecraft-Query
00:57 <+sadimusi> barneygale: no, the server cam
00:57 < dav1d> that's 10 lines of code -_-
00:57 < kiwhen> Encryption comes after the handshake, so that's no problem.,
00:58 <+sadimusi> I meant the encryption handshake
00:58 < kiwhen> I don't think I have to do that.
00:58 < dx> err
00:58 < dx> why are you guys talking about encryption if UDP based query is enough
00:58 < kiwhen> I can go straight to the 0xCD.
00:58 <+sadimusi> dx: not enabled by default
00:59 < barneygale> dx: also, https://mojang.atlassian.net/browse/MC-10984
00:59 < dx> barneygale: fun
01:00 < dav1d> holy shit
01:00 < dx> but kiwhen never said that he doesn't own the server (or that it has to handle more than 127 players)
01:00 < dav1d> mojang learn to code please
01:00 <+sadimusi> according to my statistics only about 24% of servers have the query enabled (source: http://stats.minecraftservers.org)
01:00 < barneygale> dav1d: that one was written by notch iirc
01:00 < kiwhen> The server isn't running query.
01:00 < dav1d> why would you ever cast there
01:00 < barneygale> and he's a casual
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01:01 < dav1d> even if you really wanted to cast you would do it at the end, once
01:01 < kiwhen> But yeah, the format is supposed to be packet ID, the length of the following field and then the field value (repeat)?
01:01 < kiwhen> No field names or delimiters?
01:01 <+sadimusi> only strings have lengths
01:02 < dx> "the length of the following field" ha ha how naive
01:02 < dav1d> and chunks!
01:02 <+sadimusi> chunks are not something I consider a field type
01:02 < dx> only a fool would assume that mojang would do something as sensible as sending packet length headers
01:03 < kiwhen> Figures. =/
01:03 <+sadimusi> kiwhen: you will _never_ reach your goal
01:03 < dav1d> need your help, please klick: https://github.com/Dav1dde
01:03 < dav1d> and tell me in how many organizations I am
01:03 < dx> none
01:03 < dav1d> thanks
01:04 < dx> dav1d is part of the secret organization!
01:04 < dav1d> so the privacy settings work
01:04 < dav1d> dx: two even :P
01:04 < dx> dav1d: don't let pbunny know
01:04 < dav1d> haha
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03:28 < kiwhen> Maybe you're right, this isn't going anywhere fast. http://pastebin.com/vpAS8epg
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03:33 < TkTech> kiwhen: Ignoring the "Whhhhhyyyy?" you have a few things wrong in that.
03:33 < TkTech> Actually, just about all of that is wrong.
03:34 < kiwhen> Auch.
03:34 < TkTech> A. A short is two bytes. You're only sending one.
03:34 < TkTech> B. Strings are UCS-2 and thus two bytes. You're only sending one.
03:36 < kiwhen> Okay, uhm... can I put it like "0x0006" for the username length? (which is 6), or should I put in a nul-byte before it, like "0x00 + 0x06"?
03:36 < TkTech> C. 0x63DD is 4 bytes, I'm not sure what that would even write (I'm rusty on PHP arrays.)
03:36 < dx> um
03:37 < dx> he needs to get encryption
03:37 < kiwhen> Well, PHP is kind of living it's own life at this point, but the integer for the port number is supposed to be 4 bytes, right?
03:38 < TkTech> dx: He's only  doing the handshake, why does he need encryption? 
03:38 < TkTech> dx: But yeah, I don't believe this is a good idea for what is clearly his first networking project.
03:38 < dx> TkTech: he wants to reach the point where he can receive a list of players
03:38 < dx> and can't use query because the remote server doesn't have it enabled
03:38  * SinZ wishs query was enabled by default
03:38 < dx> ^
03:39 < TkTech> dx: Ah. That's…unlikely. At least until he's done a fair bit of research.
03:40 < dx> TkTech: query being disabled? sadimusi says only 24% of servers have it, but we really don't know if kiwhen checked with a proper query client
03:40 < TkTech> No no, I mean him getting past encryption.
03:40 < dx> oh lol
03:41 < SinZ> and not in php
03:41 < dx> "unlikely" is too optimistic
03:41 < TkTech> You can do this in any language, especially if all he wants is to connect, get the player list, and disconnect. (Side reminder: Remember the language bashing rules.)
03:41 < TkTech> It's just unlikely until he gets some basic experience with networking, at the very least.
03:41 < dx> we have language bashing rules?
03:42 < kiwhen> Encryption and player lists aren't really the issue. Yet. I'm just trying to shake hands with it.
03:42 < dx> "yet"
03:42 < TkTech> dx: Pffft, I never updated the website. Guess we technically don't.
03:42 < dx> TkTech: don't bother adding them, you can't put rules against human nature :3333
03:43 < kiwhen> Can't encrypt anything without the public key, which I can't get without a working handshake.
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03:44 < dx> TkTech: and we only criticise php because it's objectively terrible
03:44 < TkTech> dx: You can try when you're the mean guy with @
03:44 < SinZ> I am fine with PHP, except I doubt its API has a convenient crypto lib to do what MC needs
03:44 < kiwhen> openSSL?
03:46 < dx> anwyay
03:46 < dx> *anyway
03:46 < dx> "this isn't going anywhere fast"
03:46 < kiwhen> Closer, or still on the wrong planet? http://pastebin.com/Wqk8xkx8
03:47 < TkTech> kiwhen: Wrong galaxy.
03:47 < TkTech> kiwhen: I'm not trying to be mean, but I would really, really recommend trying something easier, like a line-based ASCII protocol (IRC, MSNP8 -> 16, FTP, etc…).
03:48 < dx> hah MSNP8
03:48 < TkTech> kiwhen: You need a basic understanding of networking and a decent understanding of encryption.
03:48 < TkTech> dx: Don't knock it, at least it had transaction IDs!
03:48 < dx> TkTech: i actually like that protocol :P
03:49 < TkTech> Yup, nice and simple and when it worked properly (does it still work?) it was my go-to suggestion for first timers.
03:49 < dx> but they started adding weird SOAP based requests with MSNP13 for contact management and stuff got ugly
03:49 < TkTech> Very simple, and something the can get excited and show their friends who *all* used Messenger
03:49 < dx> i think MSNP8 still works though
03:49 < TkTech> *they can get excited about
03:50 < dx> (the protocol should die in march 2014, only the official client stopped working)
03:50 < kiwhen> Ait, I'm just gonna go do some laundry or something. Thanks anyway!
03:52 < dx> TkTech: the thing about MSNP is that it was deceptively simple
03:53 < dx> TkTech: notification server is trivial, switchboard server is trivial... p2p is oh god what am i doing i don't even
03:53 < TkTech> You never actually had to implement it. IIRC the only reason I did was avatars or some such silliness.
03:54 < dx> yeah, avatars, custom emoticons and file transfers
03:54 < dx> all features that people consider essential for a good client
03:54 < TkTech> Oh my god that was 2004.
03:54 < dx> :D
03:54 < TkTech> Time really likes to slap you in the face every once in awhile.
03:54 < dx> also, i think nobody ever figured out how to use the new webcam protocol
03:55 < dx> they barely figured out the old one, but then microsoft removed the servers for it
03:55 < TkTech> Worked maybe 1% of the time in the official client, totally worthless.
03:55 < dx> oh, cool. i never knew.
03:56 < TkTech> Hell, they *never* got video right. Hence buying skype.
03:56 < dx> and yeah, fuck skype's protocol
03:57 < dx> it's what made me appreciate MSNP even more
03:57 < TkTech> Oh well. They come and go but IRC is eternal.
03:57 < dx> indeed
03:57 < TkTech> (But really, would transaction IDs have killed anyone?!)
03:57 < dx> hah, what for?
03:58 < dx> whois replies etc?
03:58 < TkTech> So painful having to track the complete global state just to see if your JOIN finished, for example.
03:58 < dx> oh, that kind of stuff
03:58 < TkTech> It makes it difficult to make clean IRC APIs that support chaining.
03:59 < TkTech> In utopia, you can do things like client.ext.channels['#mcdevs'].msg('Sup').join().msg('123')
03:59 < dx> does that .join() in the middle mean anything?
03:59 < TkTech> It JOINs the channel.
04:00 < dx> but you sent a message to it first
04:00 < dx> (...technically possible, but...)
04:00 < TkTech> Nope, but I can pretend I did.
04:00 < TkTech> It'll wait until the JOIN is actually finished before sending channel commands.
04:01 < TkTech> dx: https://github.com/TkTech/utopia/blob/dev/utopia/ext/channels.py#L121
04:01 < TkTech> dx: msg and join are "magically" run as asynchronous coroutines.
04:01 < TkTech> And if necessary, they'll sleep until the necessary events complete before they should be sent.
04:02 < dx> interesting
04:03 < TkTech> (Utopia's exposed API is signal based (using blinker), and its internal API is event + greenlet (gevent) based)
04:04 < TkTech> https://github.com/TkTech/utopia/blob/dev/examples/channels.py#L16 for a simple example
04:04 < dx> what's blinker for exactly?
04:05 < dx> i mean, i see the conects and sends, but, isn't that looping over a lists of callback functions?
04:05 < TkTech> Kind of. It's a very efficient implementation of signals and slots in C, basically.
04:05 < TkTech> Keep in mind Utopia is designed to run 1000 bots at <1% CPU.
04:06 < TkTech> There are potentially tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of signals registered on every client.
04:06 < dx> fun.
04:07 < dx> also, i like your internal API
04:07 < TkTech> Absolutely everything is built on it. The core client triggers one when a raw message is read, for example.
04:07 < TkTech> https://github.com/TkTech/utopia/blob/dev/utopia/client.py#L25
04:07 < TkTech> Which the more feature filled client sitting on top listens to, parses, and then raises its own signal (https://github.com/TkTech/utopia/blob/dev/utopia/basic.py#L45)
04:08 < TkTech> It's all alpha and unfinished but works fine. Just many, many messages not implemented.
04:08 < TkTech> This dev branch is intended to replace the current version.
04:08 < dx> and.. channels are extensions?
04:09 < TkTech> Yup, everything is an extension. Don't need fancy channel support? Don't include it.
04:09 < dx> sounds like "let's make it a plugin for the sake of having less stuff in the core, even if everybody needs it"
04:09 < TkTech> The idea, at least, it to make what your bot supports explicit.
04:10 < dx> i'm not sure if irc is complex enough to move more features to plugins
04:10 < TkTech> The channel plugin can be pretty heavy with thousands of channels, but gives you a pretty API.
04:10 < TkTech> Need raw performance? Just hook the signals you need (client.m.on_join.connect()) and handle it yourself.
04:11 < TkTech> Want to completely re-implement channels? Go nuts, it's in its own file.
04:11 < dx> i really have no idea if you're suffering from premature optimization or not
04:11 < TkTech> Just expose the same signals and no code needs to be rewritten.
04:11 < dx> ChannelPlugin doesn't even look that complex
04:12 < TkTech> (That's because only JOIN and PRIVMSG are implemented)
04:12 < dx> :D
04:12 < TkTech> (Again, proof of concept)
04:13 < dx> so you're talking about differences in performance with code that doesn't do anything :P
04:14 < dx> TkTech: what are you doing to handle code reloading? (IMO that's the most important design decision of any irc bot)
04:14 < TkTech> A. That's from 14 days ago. B. Notifico is already on 26 networks. C. The top 5 projects are all private and the lowest has 15459 messages. The highest public project has 1754.
04:15 < TkTech> The vast majority of notifico's traffic is in private projects and channels.
04:15 < dx> yep, i know
04:15 < dx> i'm just saying that there might not be noticeable differences in using ChannelPlugin
04:16 < TkTech> You're right in that it may not be visible to the end user, but there is a huge difference in overhead in doing it the ugly but low level way vs the pretty ChannelPlugin way.
04:17 < TkTech> Keep in mind that I *never* intend to take this off the low end, 512mb box it's on.
04:17 < dx> heh
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04:18 < TkTech> Why are you against it being modular?
04:19 < TkTech> It keeps the core client small and light, keeps everything easy to refactor, and there are only a few "core feature" plugins necessary.
04:19 < dx> i actually like the idea of having tiny cores with lots of plugins
04:20 < dx> but i don't see any other plugins so in this case it might just make your design more complex (it already has signals so it doesn't matter)
04:20  * TkTech noddles 
04:20 < dx> but yeah, i'm judging code that is very young, so sorry for that
04:21 < TkTech> I've played with some other stuff, like making very generic on_user_seen, on_user_left events part of the core which anything can trigger.
04:21 < TkTech> I linked it up with gTalk using those event.s
04:21 < TkTech> *events.
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04:22 < dx> also, if you care that much about performance and adding a wrapper like that plugin is a huge performance hit... cpython is not for you.
04:22 < dx> sadly your deps force you to use it
04:22 < TkTech> Unfortunately the IO and CPU performance gained using gevent outweigh the poor performance of iteration and memory/gc
04:22 < zutto> hes doing it in python, you shouldnt expect amazing performance from python
04:23 < TkTech> And gevent on pypy just isn't there it yet.
04:23 < TkTech> zutto: Python is best for prototyping and things that don't need critical real-time speed.
04:23 < TkTech> zutto: But it is more than capable of being very fast.
04:23 < kiwhen> Pffft, "wrong planet". I got it working, PHP just has a funny way of reading bytes.
04:23 < kiwhen> Or, galaxy, better yet.
04:23 < dx> zutto: i said cpython for a reason
04:24 < zutto> oh right
04:24 < dx> kiwhen: oh, right, i forgot to point out that you were just concatenating decimal representations of integers
04:24 < TkTech> (Considering there are cases where naive python on pypy beats naive C on gcc +O)
04:24 < kiwhen> conca-whatnow?
04:24 < zutto> i used to prototype things in python back in the days
04:24 < zutto> so yeah, i have to agree on that
04:25 < zutto> but in the end, my projects always get out of hand
04:25 < TkTech> scipy, numpy, cython, gevent, etc...
04:25 < dx> http://dpaste.com/1206879/
04:25 < dx> kiwhen: ^
04:25 < TkTech> In real-world applications there are many tools that make development time savings well worth the minor increase in resources.
04:25 < TkTech> Like all things, it has its use cases.
04:26 < kiwhen> Uhm... that wasn't really the way I fixed it. Turns out two bytes can't be spelled out as "0x0000".
04:26 < kiwhen> All I did was to write it out as "\x00" + "\x00".
04:26 < kiwhen> That works.
04:26 < TkTech> kiwhen: I'm pretty sure I mentioned that.
04:27 < kiwhen> Sort of, but in PHP, you can't really write it out as "0x00" + "0x00" either. It has to have the backslash in there, with the quotes.
04:28 < kiwhen> Basically, I know what I have to say, I just don't know how to say it. In PHP.
04:28 < SinZ> \x means hex in php, thats why
04:28 < dx> kiwhen: the quotes and the backslash are the important part
04:28 < kiwhen> Exactly.
04:28 < SinZ> and in most things
04:28 < kiwhen> Now I know that. =P
04:28 < dx> kiwhen: the dpaste i linked was what you were doing before
04:28 < dx> 123 + 234 = 123234
04:28 < dx> genius.
04:28 < TkTech> Well, . isn't +.
04:29 < kiwhen> I don't get it. Am I not still doing that?
04:29 < TkTech> IIRC it's explicitly a string operator.
04:29 < dx> shhh
04:29 < dx> kiwhen: well uhm.. no
04:29 < SinZ> + is for integers, . is for strings
04:30 < SinZ> 123+123=246; 123.123=123123;
04:30 < kiwhen> http://pastebin.com/DKBFyf7V
04:31 < dx> yeah my + example was dumb
04:31 < kiwhen> You are talking about the "$p .= $byte;" part right? 'Cause that's still in there.
04:31 < dx> and kiwhen still doesn't realize the difference between appending ints and appending chars
04:32 < kiwhen> I do, I just have no idea what you are reffering to in my code.
04:32 < SinZ> why not do $p = implode("", $bytes);
04:32 < kiwhen> I wanted to eliminate any and all possible ways PHP could screw up my logic.
04:32 < dx> print(0x02 . 0x3D . 0x00 . 0x06);
04:32 < dx> 26106
04:32 < dx> there.
04:32 < dx> kiwhen: that's what your old code did
04:32 < SinZ> dx: except his are stored as strings
04:33 < dx> SinZ: i said "old code"
04:33 < kiwhen> It still does that.
04:33 < dx> kiwhen: no, it does not
04:33 < kiwhen> Yes, it does?
04:33 < SinZ> kiwhen: you have them inside strings now
04:33 < SinZ> Strings would do what you want
04:34 < dx> print("\x02" . "\x3D" . "\x00" . "\x06");
04:34 < dx> =
04:34 < dx> it looks like this now
04:34 < dx> (of course half of that is not printable)
04:34  * SinZ opens up SinZBot's code to do php sockets
04:34 < kiwhen> I'm still using the period operator. In PHP, that works the same way for any type, especially when I treat them as strings.
04:34 < dx> yes
04:34 < dx> it will concatenate things into strings always
04:34 < kiwhen> Which means - it still does that, right?
04:35 < dx> the period operator, yes
04:35 < dx> what you feed to that operator changed completely
04:35 < dx> and i'm not sure if you understand it
04:36 < dx> you're the one who wants to avoid having php screw your logic, so you really need to understand the difference between 0x02 . 0x3D and "\x02" and "\x3D"
04:36 < dx> err
04:36 < dx> 0x02 . 0x3D and "\x02" . "\x3D"
04:37 < dx> there.
04:37 < kiwhen> Okay, so there's a difference. I know that now. But I wasn't in the wrong galaxy.
04:37 < dx> alternatively you can choose a saner language in which stuff doesn't get converted between types implicitly
04:38 < kiwhen> I don't have Python or anything like that on my webserver, unfortunately.
04:38 < kiwhen> But it works, now I can move on to automating this thing, make it more friendly.
04:38 < kiwhen> Thanks again!
04:39 < dx> kiwhen: may i ask who owns the server that you're going to run this against?
04:39 < kiwhen> It's for an experimental stats-system. People can add their own server to a list.
04:40 < dx> if they are going to add their own server, you can just ask them to enable query
04:40 < kiwhen> I want it to be flexible. Besides, query doesn't allow full insight, does it?
04:41 < dx> it's not that i don't trust your network programming skills (okay, might be that, but still), it's that implementing the minecraft protocol requires you to parse correctly all the ~90 packets defined in it, and encryption too of course
04:41 < dx> also it will probably look like you join the server every time you gather the stats
04:42 < kiwhen> If that happens, I won't implement this.
04:42 < dx> http://wiki.vg/Query#Full_stat
04:43 < dx> minecraft version, server mod software, plugin list, number of players, max slots, and full list of players
04:43 < dx> what else do you need
04:43 < kiwhen> Number of worlds, for example.
04:43 < dx> you can't get that with a bot client
04:44 < kiwhen> Not 100%, but close enough.
04:44 < dx> err... no
04:45 < dx> the commands of the multiverse bukkit plugin usually aren't even available for normal users
04:45 < dx> and that's just one implementation of multiworld
04:46 < kiwhen> But you can grab a complete list of all commands they're using. Most of the time.
04:47 < dx> all the commands that you have permission to access, which for some servers is heavily limited for new users
04:47 < dx> also, you said you didn't want to appear as logged in
04:47 < kiwhen> Unless they are activly blocking the list, you can type / + TAB to see everything, no matter what permissions are in effect.
04:48 < kiwhen> I do that all the time.
04:48 < kiwhen> But anyway, I gotta run. Thanks for the help!
04:48 < dx> uh.. okay
04:54 < SinZ> kiwhen: http://pastebin.com/h6Bp2zNA
04:55 < SinZ> ugly code, pretty API to do roughtly what you originally wanted to do
04:55 < SinZ> roughly*
04:55 < dx> woo
04:55 < dx> he might actually get somewhere with this
04:56 < SinZ> its also untested, but was ripped and altered from a PHP mc classic bot
04:58 < SinZ> forgot the flushBuffer function, added it to the pastebin
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09:49 < Kyle> md_5: this be me.
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10:13 < AnotherOne> good day to you
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12:01 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2009 7 files : Added multi-threading to MapRenderer, controlled by -t/--threads parameter. Default is 2.
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14:12 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2010 2 files : Added a check to MapRenderer to prevent WorkQueue growing disproportionately quickly to ResultQueue, which wasted memory.
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14:51 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2011 2 files : Significantly sped up Map.ComputeHeightmap (thanks dotTrace)
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15:01 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2012 2 files : MapRenderer: avoid holding map object in memory after it has been rendered.
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15:08 < dav1d> http://wiki.vg/Protocol#Teams_.280xD1.29
15:08 < dav1d> if mode is not 0 or 2 the other fields aren't sent?
15:09 < dav1d> why don't they send these fields always, would make parsing so much easier -.-
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15:09 < dav1d> ~10 more bytes
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15:09 < dav1d> who cares about 10 more bytes sent maybe 5 times
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15:13 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2013 2 files : MapRenderer: fixed excessive memory usage on startup
15:25 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2014 2 files : Added a mapfile counter and a percentage ticker to MapRenderer, for better progress indication
15:29 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2015 2 files : Fixed incorrect "N files processed" number being printed.
15:29 < dav1d> [15:29:29.439] Game: INFO: Connection thread died
15:29 < dav1d> yay
15:29 < dav1d> so informative
15:30 <+Matvei> R.I.P. connection thread
15:33 < dav1d> 2013-06-01 15:33:29 [INFO] Disconnecting zens1ert [/127.0.0.1:60751]: Outdated client!
15:33 < dav1d> meh
15:34 < dav1d> instead of trying to debug that, I should have looked at the server
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16:15 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2016 2 files : Slightly reduced peak RenderWorker memory usage by disposing bitmaps sooner.
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16:46 < dav1d> Prf_Jakob: do you use classes to represent packets?
16:47 < dav1d> I was thinking of switching to structs, but they seem to make everything harder, I have to basically reimplement classes with structs
16:49 < dav1d> yeah, I'll revert that
16:54 < shoghicp> dav1d: Use clases, I'm moving to that approach in a few days xD
16:55 < dav1d> shoghicp: you don't have structs, do you?
16:55 < shoghicp> I used arrays of packet fields
16:56 < shoghicp> but MC has lots of special fields...
16:56 < dav1d> well yeah, but question of class vs. struct is, will it live on the heap or stack and is there inheritance
16:59 -!- TobiX_ is now known as TobiX
17:03 < AnotherOne> did yiu see this? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/10965577/usage-preference-between-a-struct-and-a-class-in-d-language
17:05 < dav1d> yeah but I can't use structs if I don't want to use templates everywhere, otherwise I would need to reimplement classes with structs
17:05 < dav1d> this makes no sense
17:08 < AnotherOne> you dont need structs
17:08 < AnotherOne> use classes and everuthing will be ok:)
17:08  * AnotherOne makes jedi gesture
17:10 < AnotherOne> why do you want to switch to structs?
17:11 < dav1d> initially, to minimize the heap allocations
17:11 < dav1d> but I'll stick with classes, except Prf_Jakob comes up with something smart
17:12 < AnotherOne> do you think class objects are being allocated in heap only?
17:12 <+Prf_Jakob> dav1d: I use struct but I'm only doing classic so everything is fixed length.
17:12 < dav1d> Prf_Jakob: yeah this unfortunatly doesn't work for me :(
17:13 < dav1d> AnotherOne: C++ is different from D
17:13 < AnotherOne> i see
17:13 < dav1d> I don't exactly know why this works in C++
17:13 < AnotherOne> they are shitting star-formed bricks trying to "fix C++ problems"
17:13 < dav1d> in D, clasess are references and allocated on the heap (everything else would segfault in 99% of all cases)
17:13 < AnotherOne> and in result... 
17:13 < dav1d> no, this makes sense
17:14 < dav1d> a class as reference type is awesome
17:14 < AnotherOne> why no leave choice?
17:14 < AnotherOne> retard-oriented programming?
17:15 < dav1d> use structs then
17:16 < AnotherOne> you should throw away D and write something in pure C like pbunny:)
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17:19 < dav1d> god no
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17:54 < travis-ci> [travis-ci] TRocket/gnuCraft#32 (master - 31900a6 : TRocket): The build failed.
17:54 < travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/TRocket/gnuCraft/compare/7be2b896a5d5...31900a6d6fdd
17:54 < travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/TRocket/gnuCraft/builds/7691970
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17:54 < TRocket> :)
17:55 < TRocket> the irony that I had to make the build fail and not error for it to appear on irc
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18:19 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to refactoring [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/9pl3Gw
18:19 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn a3d5ff7 - Update fNbt
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18:30 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to refactoring [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/VkxiMw
18:30 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 156253a - Update fNbt, fix solution file for Mono
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18:33 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: Is the only problem that he isn't notifico, that feels a bit you know impartial? Or is there more to it.
18:34 < TkTech> A. Notifico has a travis hook anyways, B. No way we're allowing build status in the channel, it would be a flood. C. Rules are simple and clear on other bots.
18:35 < TkTech> Did he ask somewhere and I'm just missing it?
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18:37 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to refactoring [+0/-0/±14] http://git.io/1IuGvA
18:37 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 019d7c9 - Fixed more issues with build on Mono
18:39 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: currently the rules doesn't mention Notifico..
18:39 < TkTech> You're right, it doesn't. It says to ask.
18:48 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 3 commits to master [+0/-0/±7] http://git.io/a3WVjw
18:48 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 11e7322 - Update protocol to 1.5.2
18:48 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 9933037 - merge dispatch_packet and poll
18:48 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 76a40d0 - improve naming mess a bit
18:53 < dx> "There are no bots allowed in the channel with the exception of the official CIA bot"
18:53 < dx> in practice, notifico == CIA
18:54 < dx> so it's just outdated
18:55 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/S-N7jw
18:55 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde b3e7ca0 - updated gl3n
18:55 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde a86c5d7 - increase the block ids, 1.6 covered, yes!
18:57 < pdelvo_> the github repo is updated 5 months ago and includes notifico, but mcdevs.org isnt: https://github.com/TkTech/mcdevs.org/commit/ef60fbb2419c8d2b4d0a7686b1b13748a7953854
18:57 < dx> good catch
19:00 < TRocket> so, we can use notifico...?
19:02 < dav1d> TRocket: yes
19:02 < dav1d> also no builds please
19:03 < TRocket> ok, thanks
19:03 < AnotherOne> socket.connect(ip::tcp::endpoint(*ip::tcp::resolver(io).resolve(ip::tcp::resolver::query(host, boost::lexical_cast<std::string>(port)))));
19:03 < AnotherOne> boost::asio, you're killing me
19:03 < dav1d> C++ would kill me
19:04 < dav1d> probably even worse than D with its fucking bugs
19:05 < AnotherOne> C++ is nice
19:05 < dav1d> no it isn't^^
19:05 < AnotherOne> why?
19:06 < dav1d> I just don't like it
19:06 < TRocket> @AnotherOne nice
19:07 < AnotherOne> not nice
19:07 < AnotherOne> i want socket.connect(host, port);
19:07 < AnotherOne> wrappers again
19:07 < TRocket> java does that :P
19:07 < AnotherOne> java is slow
19:08 < Not-002> [gnuCraft] TRocket pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/DVVgkw
19:08 < Not-002> [gnuCraft] TRocket cd0b774 - Update .travis.yml
19:08 < dx> heh
19:08 < TRocket> yup
19:10 < TRocket> hate you debian!  Failed to fetch http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/a/alsa-lib/libasound2-dev_1.0.25-1ubuntu10.1_amd64.deb  404  Not Found [IP: 91.189.91.15 80]
19:12 < Not-002> [gnuCraft] TRocket pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/DN3LRw
19:12 < Not-002> [gnuCraft] TRocket cab22cd - heh, I don't know how debian works
19:15 < Not-002> [gnuCraft] TRocket pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/AbJ02A
19:15 < Not-002> [gnuCraft] TRocket d220082 - I should probably look at the man page for apt-get
19:20 < TRocket> is wiki.vg down?
19:21 < buttscicles> seems to be
19:22 < TkTech> kev009__: ^
19:23 < pdelvo_> the protocol spec is also avialable here: http://wiki.pdelvo.de/Protocol :D
19:23 < dav1d> haha
19:24 < dav1d> time to shine!
19:29 < SuinDraw> eww apt-get
19:29 < SuinDraw> aptitude > apt-get
19:35 < TRocket> apt-get install aptitude -_-
19:36 < TRocket> I only use debian on travis
19:37 < AnotherOne> pdelvo_: you have a bug
19:37 < AnotherOne> http://i48.fastpic.ru/big/2013/0601/e9/1dcc5ddb06b107459f1186dcb179d3e9.png
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19:40 < shoghicp> "Entity refers to any item, player, mob, minecart or boat in the world. This definition is subject to change as Notch extends the protocol"
19:40 < shoghicp> shouldn't that be changed?
19:40 < shoghicp> Mojang instead of Notch ;)
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20:21 < kev009__> bad RAM, I _really_ need to replace the server it wiki runs on
20:21 -!- SuinDraw [~NiaTeppel@WiseOS/Founder/NiaTeppelin] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
20:21 < TkTech> AnotherOne: Why do you keep using a bloated, slow, ad-filled and just /ugly/ image host?
20:22 < TkTech> kev009__: co-lo?
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20:26 < kev009__> yes
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20:51 < AnotherOne> TkTech: show me a good one then
20:52 < AnotherOne> i didn't know about ads, adblock power
20:52 < dav1d> imgur?
20:53 < AnotherOne> oh
20:53 < AnotherOne> i could not remember this name
20:53 < AnotherOne> imgur is one that hac't handle non-ascii names
20:53 < AnotherOne> can't*
20:53 < dav1d> I doubt that
20:54 < dav1d> but try it
20:54 < AnotherOne> at least russian-named image didn't upload
20:54 < AnotherOne> with blah blah url error
20:54 < AnotherOne> or something
20:55 < dx> er..
20:55 < dx> non-ascii..
20:55 < dx> what
20:55 < AnotherOne> hm
20:55 < AnotherOne> it works now
20:56 < AnotherOne> still imgur is more bloated and ugly
20:56 < dx> image hosts have no reason to care about the filename
20:56 < dx> >more bloated and ugly
20:56 < dx> are you kidding or what
20:56 < AnotherOne> no
20:56 < dx> at least it allows direct links
20:58 < redu> minus.com
20:58 < redu> is what I use
20:58 < dx> minus is decent too
20:58 < shoghicp> slower that imgur
20:58 < redu> 1sec vs 2 sec
20:59 < shoghicp> redu: try loading a big GIF from minus and from imgur ;)
20:59 < dx> shoghicp: seems to be a matter of luck (lol routing)
20:59 < dx> gifs from minus are faster for me
20:59 < shoghicp> ok then xD
21:00 < dx> shoghicp: ...also, gifs from minus tend to be slower because they aren't compressed as much
21:00 < dx> sorry, i meant "tend to SEEM slower"
21:00 < shoghicp> hmm, my ping to imgur is faster that to minus
21:01 < dx> that doesn't say anything about transfer rate
21:01 < shoghicp> that seems slower
21:01 < shoghicp> but not consistent
21:01 < shoghicp> anyways
21:01 < shoghicp> anyway*
21:01 < shoghicp> imgur or minus are decent
21:02 < dx> yeah
21:02 < dx> they allow direct links and don't have a wallpaper-sized advertisement that is three times bigger than the actual image you want to link
21:02 < Yoshi2> a lot of gifs are very big and don't run very smooth until they are fully loaded
21:03 < dx> gifs aren't really designed for what people are using them nowadays
21:03 < dav1d> y u no use JS GIF
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21:03 < dav1d> draws gifs on a canvas using webworkers
21:03 < dav1d> :D
21:03 < dx> dav1d: that's an encoder
21:04 < dav1d> (I know it also doesn't download faster)
21:04 < dx> it's completely irrelevant for this issue lol
21:04 < dav1d> I know, but cool
21:04 < dx> yeah i guess
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21:51 < TRocket> oops...
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22:53 < AnotherOne> hey dav1d
22:53 < AnotherOne> imma goin to steal all your code
22:53 < dav1d> AnotherOne: you know that it's GPL licensed?
22:53 < AnotherOne> yep:)
22:54 < AnotherOne> oh
22:54 < dav1d> then go ahead, lol
22:54 < AnotherOne> how different the code must be to be counted as different implementation?
22:54 < dav1d> 75% won't work for you probably, compile time function execution!
22:55 < dav1d> AnotherOne: don't like, code it yourself, then it is different enough
22:55 < AnotherOne> but what if i am microsoft and want to steal some code?
22:56 < AnotherOne> GPL code
22:56 < dav1d> why would microsoft do that?
22:56 < AnotherOne> because of laze lol
22:57 < AnotherOne> they have been caught on this iirc
22:58 < TRocket> what code were they planning to steal?
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22:59 < TRocket> I guess the quality of our code would be 2^16 times better then what they could write without 15 years for 200 lines :P
23:00 < dav1d> holy shit, are you serious?
23:01 < TRocket> well, slight under-exaggeration...
23:02 < AnotherOne> https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/brala/network/connection.d#L115
23:02 < dav1d> AnotherOne: yes?
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23:02 < AnotherOne> so your login = handshake, and then main loop cares of anything else?
23:03 < dav1d> AnotherOne: yep
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23:03 < dav1d> every incoming packet gets dispatched
23:03 < dav1d> everything connection related in this file, everything else in brala/game.d
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23:03 < dav1d> poll() does that
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23:03 < Not-002> [PartyCraft] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/cTBTlg
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23:03 < Not-002> [PartyCraft] SirCmpwn 3990b5d - Update README.md
23:04 < AnotherOne> https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/brala/network/connection.d#L115
23:04 < dav1d> this way brala isn't affected by e.g. random KeepAlives 
23:04 < AnotherOne> oops
23:04 < AnotherOne> https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/brala/network/connection.d#L128
23:04 < AnotherOne> damn
23:04 < TRocket> that'sssssss a nice function you have there. Shame if it were to .._Segmentation Fault
23:04 < dav1d> TRocket: why should it?
23:04 < dav1d> AnotherOne: damn?
23:05 < dav1d> generating a switch..case at compile time? :)
23:05 < TRocket> lol
23:05 < AnotherOne> what is s?
23:06 < dav1d> AnotherOne: import s = brala.network.packets.server;
23:06 < dav1d> a module
23:06 < dav1d> in C++ you would probably use a namespace
23:06 < dav1d> if you search for get_packets, it is in brala.network.packets.util
23:07 < AnotherOne> i dont underatand how are your packet classes built
23:07 < AnotherOne> understand*
23:07 < dav1d> magic :)
23:07 < dav1d> AnotherOne: take a look into brala.network.packets.util
23:07 < TRocket> to c-style programmers python hurts, a lot
23:07 -!- TRocket- [~TRocket@213.205.229.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
23:07 < dav1d> "mixin template Packet)
23:07 < dav1d> "mixin template Packet"
23:08 < dav1d> that generates every packet according to the definition passed to it (at compile time)
23:08 < dav1d> making updating protocol version really, really easy, also less typing
23:08 < dav1d> line 109
23:08 < dav1d> that's basically how a packet looks
23:10 < AnotherOne> give me a link please
23:10 < TRocket> AnotherOne: we should do that with your packet gen
23:10 < dav1d> AnotherOne: https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/brala/network/packets/util.d#L58
23:11 < dav1d> TRocket: I doubt this is possible with C++
23:11 < TRocket> a simple (python?) script to update packets.txt from the wiki
23:11 < dav1d> oh
23:11 < dav1d> I thought doing what I linked in C++
23:12 < TRocket> regexs are... fun
23:12 < TRocket> yeah, that might be more interesting
23:12 < AnotherOne> fuck
23:13 < TRocket> wiki.vg is still down :(
23:13 < AnotherOne> i thought about parsing from wiki
23:13 < AnotherOne> it is "low priority" (Grum)
23:14 < TRocket> yeah
23:14 < AnotherOne> but i'm trying to understand this D magic
23:14 < TRocket> have you worked out how to use git yet?
23:14 < AnotherOne> nope
23:15 < TRocket> :)
23:15 < TRocket> yeah, it's not the simplest of things
23:15 < AnotherOne> actually my packet generator function looks like dav1d's code
23:16 < AnotherOne> dav1d, how do you access fields?
23:16 < dav1d> AnotherOne: tdecl holds that
23:16 < dav1d> my_packet.field
23:16 < AnotherOne> wat?
23:16 < TRocket> if you get stuck there's always #git
23:16 < AnotherOne> ok
23:17 < dav1d> tdecl holds something generated like: "long age;\n long time;" for the TimeUpdate packet
23:17 < dav1d> mixin("string") is basically compile-time eval
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23:18 < AnotherOne> omg
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23:18 < dav1d> and best is
23:18 < kev009__> wiki back up, sorry folks
23:18 < dav1d> mixin(some_func()) – basically interprets you func at compile time
23:19 < AnotherOne> in cost of heap-only class instances
23:19 < dav1d> at the time I wrote this code this wasn't possible, so everything is done with template recursion
23:19 < dav1d> AnotherOne: you have to store your classes also on the heap
23:19 < AnotherOne> no
23:19 < dav1d> also I never said they are heap only, they are by default on the heap
23:19 < AnotherOne> partially on the heap
23:20 < AnotherOne> if it is not created with new, it is on stack
23:20 < TRocket> kev009__ wiki'cked
23:20 < dav1d> AnotherOne: but you need them on the heap, everything else will be a bad hack
23:21 < AnotherOne> why?
23:22 < dav1d> try it
23:22 < TRocket> so, this d thing is just #IFDEF on steroids?
23:22 < dav1d> it's not a preprocessor, but yeah
23:23 < AnotherOne> show me the packet handlers please, dav1d
23:23 < dav1d> AnotherOne: brala/game.d and brala/network/connection.d
23:23 < dav1d> https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/brala/network/connection.d#L144
23:24 < dav1d> https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/brala/game.d#L160
23:24 < AnotherOne> oh shit
23:24 < AnotherOne> i didn't want to do this
23:24 < AnotherOne> but looks like i have to
23:27 < AnotherOne> what if you send player position and look faster than 20 TPS?
23:28 < dav1d> AnotherOne: do I handle that every tick? I don't think so
23:28 < dav1d> ok I do^^
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23:37 < AnotherOne> if(_current_world !is null)
23:37 < AnotherOne> wtf
23:38 < AnotherOne> "is" for "==" ?
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23:40 < dav1d> AnotherOne: yes and no
23:40 < dav1d> is tests for identity == not
23:41 < AnotherOne> wat?
23:43 < dav1d> == calls opEquals, is doesn't
23:43 < dav1d> also works a bit differently
23:44 < AnotherOne> strange strange D
23:45 < dav1d> lol?
23:45 < dav1d> not sure if kidding or never used anything else than C++
23:45 < AnotherOne> pascal, a little obj-c, python...
23:46 < dav1d> python has the same
23:46 < dav1d> http://docs.python.org/2/library/stdtypes.html#comparisons
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23:46 < AnotherOne> and "is" looks like the horrible hybrid of c and pascal
23:46 < dav1d> "if obj is None" not "if obj == None"
23:46 < dav1d> "is" and "==" have different meanings
23:47 < AnotherOne> oh
23:47 < AnotherOne> i see it now
23:48 < dav1d> e.g.
23:48 < dav1d> assert(5 !is 5)
23:48 < dav1d> if you translate it to python: assert 22222 not is 222222
23:48 < dav1d> not you need big numbers for that, smaller ones are cached by the interpreter and are the *same*
23:50 < AnotherOne> so, "is" tests for same object, not same value?
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23:53 < dav1d> AnotherOne: yes
23:53 < dav1d> returns true if objects are the *same* and not equal
23:53 < dav1d> basically "cast(void*)clazz1 == cast(void*)clazz2" for classes
23:54 -!- Yoshi2 [~Yoshi2@xdsl-78-35-214-100.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
23:59 < AnotherOne> wait...
23:59 < AnotherOne> &obj1 == &obj2
23:59 < AnotherOne> and no is
--- Day changed dim. juin 02 2013
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00:02 < dav1d> AnotherOne: no, I meant cast ;)
00:02 < dav1d> remember classes in D are reference-types
00:03 < AnotherOne> oh
00:04 < AnotherOne> is it possible in D to separate interface and implementation?
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00:04 < AnotherOne> into different files
00:04 < dav1d> yes and no
00:04 < AnotherOne> i like this answer
00:04 < dav1d> as it is done in C++ (fortunatly) not
00:04 < AnotherOne> unfortunately, lol
00:04 < dav1d> but you can do it with "mixin template"s
00:05 < AnotherOne> i've read about this "advantage" and facepalm'd
00:06 < AnotherOne> it is sometimes useful to hide implementation
00:06 < AnotherOne> but user stall can open .h and look into interface
00:06 < AnotherOne> still*
00:07 < AnotherOne> what about D?
00:07 < AnotherOne> is something like this possible?
00:08 < dav1d> lol sorry, just used up my whole ram by accident^^
00:08 < AnotherOne> :D
00:08 < dav1d> yes there are .di header files
00:08 < AnotherOne> good
00:08 < dav1d> but no one uses them
00:08 < AnotherOne> why?
00:08 < dav1d> they are not needed (except for static libraries)
00:09 < dav1d> there are no forward reference problems
00:09 < AnotherOne> heh
00:09 < AnotherOne> well
00:09 < AnotherOne> let's see what happens to D later
00:10 < AnotherOne> (prediction mode on) i think it will become yet another c# for business, where writing speed is more important than run speed
00:11 < dav1d> and that is how it works nowadays
00:12 < AnotherOne> not for gamedev
00:13 < dav1d> aha
00:14 < AnotherOne> fuck
00:15 < AnotherOne> i want to make map for codes and handlers
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00:15 < AnotherOne> and i also want handler pointers to be diferent
00:15 < AnotherOne> different*
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00:16 < AnotherOne> do your handlers use global vars?
00:16 < dav1d> 0 global state
00:17 < dav1d> well a bit, for vertices n' stuff
00:17 < dav1d> but this will change
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00:18 < AnotherOne> fucking fuck
00:18 < AnotherOne> network i/o architecture seems to be hardest part fo me
00:19 < AnotherOne> for*
00:22 < AnotherOne> it's hard to be a noob...
00:22 < AnotherOne> constant butthurt
00:26 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 4 commits to master [+4/-1/±17] http://git.io/rBgl2A
00:26 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 7cfb85f - Fixed skylights being reversed
00:26 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath a8c32e8 - Start of faster lighting system
00:27 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 51c0911 - Finished block lighting
00:27 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 8856977 - Add support for the player type in commands
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01:26 < dav1d> holy shit, I can't find the error
01:26 < AnotherOne> what error?
01:27 < dav1d> https://gist.github.com/Dav1dde/5692049
01:27 < dav1d> something in this code is wrong
01:28 < dav1d> I can not figure out what-.-
01:30 < AnotherOne> how do you know there is error?
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01:33 < dav1d> well this is supposed to make out of images a texture atlas, but if I write the png to disc, I see that is wrong, also it fails when it shouldn't (returns null, even though there is still enough space in the atlas)
01:36 < dav1d> lol
01:37 < dav1d> maybe only the textures are broken
01:37 < dav1d> debugging this stuff for hours -.-
01:37 < AnotherOne> look higher
01:37 < AnotherOne> mb some incorrect input?
01:37 < AnotherOne> and yes
01:38 < AnotherOne> this horrible egyptian brace style
01:39 < dav1d> holy shit
01:40 < dav1d> the code is correct but the input probably not
01:42 < AnotherOne> check it
01:51 < dav1d> lol it works
01:51 < dav1d> I should have read more about the texturepack format
01:51 < AnotherOne> heh
01:51 < AnotherOne> case MC::Protocol::Msg::ChatMessage::getPacketId():
01:52 < AnotherOne> should i leve this or hardcode packet id?
01:52 < AnotherOne> leave*
01:52 <+sadimusi> why does that look like part of a giant switch clause?
01:53 < dav1d> AnotherOne: I'd use some kind of enum
01:53 < dav1d> well, a enum
01:53 < dav1d> *an
01:53 < dav1d> whatever, too late for english
01:54 < AnotherOne> sadimusi: because this is it
01:54 <+sadimusi> AnotherOne: why don't you just put objects or function pointer in an array/hashmap?
01:55 <+sadimusi> if I remember correctly you are using one class per packet anyway
01:55 < AnotherOne> because it will not work that way
01:56 < AnotherOne> typical packet skip looks like MC::Protocol::Msg::SomeMessage().deserialize(src, offset);
01:56 < AnotherOne> what function should i put into array?
01:57 < AnotherOne> oh wait...
01:57 < AnotherOne> MC::Protocol::Msg::SomeMessage sm; MC::Protocol::Msg::SomeMessage::deserialize(sm, src, offset);
01:58 < AnotherOne> will this work?
01:58 <+sadimusi> you could also just put the classes in the arrays if that's possible
01:58 <+sadimusi> then create an instance of whatever you got and call deserialize
01:59 <+sadimusi> (it's been a while since I touched C++, I have no idea what it can do)
01:59 <+sadimusi> or maybe there are inheritable class methods?
02:00 < AnotherOne> what is your idea?
02:01 <+sadimusi> a class method could create the instance and then call the deserialize method
02:01 <+sadimusi> but just storing the classes would be cleaner
02:02 < dav1d> or generate the switch..case at compile-time :)
02:02 <+sadimusi> or is there some kind of cloning mechanism? then you could just store empty instances and clone them
02:02 < AnotherOne> <+sadimusi> a class method could create the instance and then call the deserialize method
02:03 < AnotherOne> this is a good idea
02:03 < dav1d> zzzz, cya
02:03 < AnotherOne> bye
02:05 <+sadimusi> if there's overloading for constructors you could put it in one of them instead
02:05 <+sadimusi> would be a bit cleaner
02:06 <+sadimusi> as long as they are inherited
02:06 < AnotherOne> i had deserializer constructor
02:06 < AnotherOne> bu deleted it for some reason
02:07 < AnotherOne> deserialize must return an offset
02:08 < AnotherOne> though i can use reference
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02:13 < AnotherOne> bye, im going to sleep
02:13 <+sadimusi> gn8
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05:42 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to refactoring [+1/-1/±24] http://git.io/x1Gy1Q
05:42 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 5140ec8 - Added block update logic and configurable drops
06:04 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to refactoring [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/R08kPQ
06:04 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn a463524 - Prevented entities from spawning when creative players destroy blocks
06:10 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to refactoring [+1/-0/±2] http://git.io/hi3tZA
06:10 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn d652422 - Added wool, fixed metadata bug for block placement
06:28 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to refactoring [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/xdhuCA
06:28 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn d686966 - Fixed build on MS.NET
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14:43 < dav1d> yay
14:43 < dav1d> http://i.imgur.com/aHyNeoE.png
14:44 < dav1d> auto a = new MinecraftAtlas("/home/dav1d/.minecraft/bin/minecraft.jar"); :)
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14:54 < SinZ> dav1d: is this for your client?
14:54 < dav1d> SinZ: yep :)
14:55 < SinZ> neat
14:55 < SinZ> kinda annoying that the two pieces of bed is so far away
14:55 < SinZ> as with doors
14:56 < dav1d> automatically extends the atlas when needed, so arbitrary size texture packs are supported :)
14:56 < dav1d> e.g. 64x64 http://imgur.com/AWdxn3R
14:56 < dav1d> :D
14:57 < dav1d> (I think the texture pack is not complete)
15:13 < dav1d> lol
15:13 < dav1d> https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/brala/dine/builder/vertices.d
15:13 < dav1d> https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/brala/dine/builder/builder.d
15:13 < dav1d> I have to remove every hardcoded texture coordinate -.-
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15:28 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+3/-0/±5] http://git.io/dthm2w
15:28 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde bde8e4b - implemented a atlas class to load "new style textures"
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17:15 < AnotherOne> http://i.eatliver.com/2009/4470.jpg
17:17 < SinZ> wow..
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18:10 < dav1d> clonejo: ^ fail! :P
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19:54 < ughman> I'm working on making a proxy of sorts, just as a personal project
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19:55 < ughman> is there some way I can avoid encryption for now, so I can work on the packet parsing/creating first and then tack the encryption later on?
19:55 < ughman> tackle*
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19:59 < Yoshi2> it depends on which side of the proxy you want to work on first
19:59 < Yoshi2> from what I've heard, there are ways to disable encryption on a custom server, but I'm not completly sure about how it is done
19:59 < Yoshi2> if you want to get your proxy to connect to a normal server first, then you are required to deal with the encryption
20:00 < shoghicp> Yoshi2: you can skip encryption on a custom server just not sending encryption packets
20:00 < shoghicp> and running in offline mode
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20:23 < Not-002> [Miners] Wallbraker pushed 3 commits to master [+0/-0/±9] http://git.io/BljMgw
20:23 < Not-002> [Miners] Wallbraker cf4b8dc - game: Refactor SimpleApp a bit
20:23 < Not-002> [Miners] Wallbraker 9175f3a - game: Refactor gfx sync code to simple app
20:23 < Not-002> [Miners] Wallbraker ef8fe6f - game: Merge App and SimpleApp
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21:49 < Not-002> [Miners] Wallbraker pushed 2 commits to master [+2/-1/±2] http://git.io/f1un-g
21:49 < Not-002> [Miners] Wallbraker daa8a85 - examples: Move Game example here
21:49 < Not-002> [Miners] Wallbraker a70ca09 - examples: Add a mini GL example
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22:04 < dav1d> xD
22:04 < dav1d> http://imgur.com/jCfYQ1z
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22:07 < Yoshi2> very nice, that looks like... something, I guess? xD
22:10 < dav1d> just bound the texture atlas texture with the old koordinates
22:10 < dav1d> the static ones
22:12 < TRocket> https://geekli.st/community/mcdevs
22:12 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 7 commits to master [+0/-0/±20] http://git.io/Bz5TyQ
22:12 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde b3e3ae1 - fixed Image.write
22:12 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 6bca2aa - improve shader, remove terrain preprocessing
22:12 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 994b09d - implemented texture-coordinates generation into atlas
22:12 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 4e1704a - passing minecraft atlas through to tessellator
22:12 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 502a11a - move glfw function after context creation, log more atlas stuff
22:12 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 321e55a - implement offline mode via --offline switch
22:12 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 3078daa - fixed atlas.texture, implemented use_sampler in engine
22:13 < dav1d> 'nough for today
22:13 < Kyle> dav1d: needs more D
22:13 < Kyle> and more lower level.
22:13 < dav1d> Kyle: D_icks?
22:13 < Kyle> :p
22:14  * Kyle still can't get over that lower level joke
22:14 < dav1d> :D
22:14 < Kyle> Is it usable yet? :p
22:15 < dav1d> Kyle: BraLa, more or less
22:15 < dav1d> Kyle: you can fly around and see stuff, but nothing more
22:15 < Kyle> heh.
22:16 < dav1d> new texture support is 50% done I would say
22:16 < dav1d> then I'll maybe implement physics
22:16 < dav1d> "physics"
22:16 < Kyle> Implying they ever were such a thing :p
22:18 < dav1d> yeah^^
22:21 < TRocket> ah, physics, floating trees, water above lava,...
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23:05 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/xJxYsg
23:05 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 0f15178 - Update readme, 1.5.2 support
23:11 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/fBXuCw
23:11 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 7c5eeab - cleanup old configs, add --offline to readme
23:22 <+md_5> so this guy reckons he can mitm online mode connections
23:22  * md_5 skeptic
23:22 <+md_5> dav1d brala :D
23:22 < ughman> I do want to know what minecraft does against mitm
23:23 <+md_5> ughman pubkey encryption
23:23 <+md_5> was added after it became popular to mitm
23:23  * TkTech cries
23:23 < dav1d> o/
23:24 < TkTech> I once had control over a good ~30 of your accounts.
23:24 < ughman> what if you trick a player into connecting to you instead of the server
23:25 < ughman> unless there's a central server signing public keys, I don't see how you can be sure the public key you're receiving is the right one
23:26 < ughman> central authority, rather
23:30 <+md_5> yeah
23:30 <+md_5> but then for the attack to be an attack
23:30 <+md_5> you have to connect to a server (ie proxy)
23:30 <+md_5> and authenticate as the client
23:30 <+md_5> which is impossible under the current system unless tthere is an exploit
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01:21 < AnotherOne> anybody here?
01:21 < dexter0> maybe
01:21 < AnotherOne> i need dupe mechanism explaination
01:22 < AnotherOne> player needs to set /cdroptransfer select to chest, put something there, open it and do /unregister while opening
01:23 < AnotherOne> then he can take item from chest to actionbar abd take-throw it 
01:23 < AnotherOne> and if appears again and again
01:23 < AnotherOne> why?
01:23 < AnotherOne> it appears*
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01:38 < dx> ...
01:39 < Kyle> dx: my thoughts exactly
01:39 < Kyle> That entire plea for help had so many dead ends it's not even funny?
01:40 < dx> what do you mean with "dead ends"?
01:41 < Kyle> dx: trying to figure out what the hell command that's from, but my thinking goes no where
01:41 < Kyle> dead end
01:41 < dx> oh lol
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01:42 < dx> google gave me a lot of russian pages for some reason, and a single link to a LWC wiki page
01:42 < Kyle> dx: my next question, how is that relevant to here? :p
01:42 < dx> Kyle: exactly.
01:42 < Kyle> this is neither a bukkit nor LWC support channel :p
01:44 < dx> this is a really interesting google search
01:44 < dx> it's not just russian, i see hungarian, japanese, czech, and maybe others, but extremely few english results
01:45 < dx> it's like the command is disabled for western europe and the americas
01:45 < Kyle> lol
02:15 < AlphaBlend> Kyle: He never mentioned Bukkit, how is that relevant here?
02:15 < AlphaBlend> relevance is all the questions we have for what he said
02:15 < AlphaBlend> hahahahahaha
02:18 < Kyle> AlphaBlend: because he's complaining about what is obviously a bukkit plugin named LWC
02:21 < edk> droptransfer is insane anyway. more overpowered than ender chests and you don't even have to work for it
02:31 < dx> AlphaBlend: offtopic discussion is fine here, but why even ask explanations about LWC in this channel?
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02:37 < AlphaBlend> because it was unserious, just felt like ... never mind :(
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05:39 < ughman> the server is closing the connection on me after I send the encryption response
05:39 < ughman> no kick message or anything, tried it with a couple servers including vanilla
05:39 < ughman> anyone know what could cause this?
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09:09 < AnotherOne> ughman: if you have own server, what is it writing into log at that moment?
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11:53 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±3] http://git.io/OTVWkA
11:53 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 516f6ee - Improve Logger
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13:54 <+sadimusi> ughman: you're writing encryption for a client?
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15:46 < shoghicp> hey, anyone knows how the server sends the bow usage animation?
15:51 < clonejo_> shoghicp: mobile or desktop?
15:53 < shoghicp> It is for mobile
15:53 < shoghicp> but
15:53 < shoghicp> I'm asking about the desktop
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16:17 < ughman> ah, got it working somehow
16:17 < ughman> now I understand how it protects against mitm attacks
16:17 < ughman> I didn't realize the server's public key was used in part of the authentication with session.minecraft.net
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16:18 <+sadimusi> ughman: is the whole encryption handshake working already?
16:19 < ughman> it seems so
16:19 < jast> easiest way to break security: offer new! and improved! MC launcher as a free download
16:19 <+sadimusi> :)
16:19 < jast> or send mails asking people to 'verify their account'
16:19 < ughman> working with the public key format in C# was a pain
16:19 <+sadimusi> or th3imb4haxx0rm0d
16:20 <+sadimusi> you could even let completely unrelated software read the lastlogin file
16:21 <+sadimusi> ughman: what are you building?
16:21 < ughman> a proxy
16:21 < ughman> one of the servers I play on has a faction system where player-owned factions can own chunks of the world
16:21 < ughman> there's a command to display a map of who owns the nearby chunks
16:22 < TkTech> kev009__: Gotta do something about these spam accounts. Recent changes page is nothing but accounts.
16:22 < TkTech> kev009__: Can you run the cleanup script when you get a chance?
16:22 < ughman> I want to request the map occasionally and store the data in a much larger map I can store locally
16:22 <+sadimusi> sounds cool
16:22 < ughman> so I can go exploring around and then take a look at the map I've seen
16:22 < unnicked893> chunk owning is so ridiculous
16:22 <+sadimusi> but why not use one of the existing proxies?
16:22 < unnicked893> i don't get why people like it
16:23 < ughman> yeah that's how people get their bases discovered on this server usually
16:23 < ughman> they mark their base as their own territory, and then someone comes along and sees it on the map
16:23 < TkTech> unnicked893: How exactly is that ridiculous? Especially on creative maps.
16:23 < ughman> next thing they know they're getting raided with creeper eggs or tnt launchers
16:24 < ughman> it's a pvp with raiding server, btw
16:24 < unnicked893> TkTech: it is used on pvp survival servers here and there
16:24 < unnicked893> players like safety more than fun, obviously
16:24 < TkTech> unnicked893: In which case it adds a concept of territory and in some cases taxation.
16:25 < unnicked893> TkTech: i think he meant zone protection
16:25 < unnicked893> so others couldn't dig/build there
16:25 < ughman> right, that
16:25 < TkTech> Ah, different things that.
16:25 < ughman> also chest/furnace access is protected
16:25 < unnicked893> ughman: sounds boring
16:25 <+sadimusi> can i still blow up chests?
16:25 < ughman> creeper eggs are available in the shops
16:25 < ughman> and you can use those
16:26 < ughman> if not, you can spawnkill the people who own the base until their power drops below the number of chunks they own
16:26 < ughman> and then you can just take the chunks from them
16:27 <+sadimusi> sounds fun
16:27 < TkTech> That actually sounds like a lot of games. Eve for example, where you can't take over a system until you've neutered the owners.
16:28 <+sadimusi> ughman: my question still stands, why don't you just use one of the existing proxies?
16:28 < ughman> I don't think I actually looked for any
16:29 < ughman> I looked at pdelvo's minecraft library and the craft.net one
16:29 <+sadimusi> there's even a proxy based on craft.net
16:29 < ughman> but they're all using newer versions of .net so I couldn't compile them
16:29 <+sadimusi> but I think it's pretty outdated
16:29 < ughman> if I thought this would take more than a few days to develop I wouldn't have bothered
16:30 <+sadimusi> you could probably write an mc3p plugin in 10 minutes which does exactly what you need
16:30 <+sadimusi> speaking of which, now would be a good time to rename it to mc4p
16:31 < TkTech> sadimusi: You need to link to yours or he'll never find it.
16:31 <+sadimusi> https://github.com/sadimusi/mc3p
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16:34 < unnicked893> what is the purpose of proxy for minecraft?
16:34 <+sadimusi> for example what ughman wants to do
16:34 <+sadimusi> but mostly for debugging custom software
16:38 < unnicked893> how can proxy help to debug anything?
16:39 <+sadimusi> for example when the client crashes you can see what the triggering packet was
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16:41 <+sadimusi> or it could have helped ughman to debug his encryption handshake http://cl.ly/POYU
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16:46 < ughman> right
16:46 < ughman> I did find one server that gave me a nice java exception message from some rsa code, which was nice
16:49 < unnicked893> <sadimusi> for example when the client crashes you can see what the triggering packet was
16:49 < unnicked893> you can also do it on server or on client
16:49 < unnicked893> so proxy is only good when you have no access to client and no access to server
16:49 < unnicked893> in which case it makes me wonder about the reason for tha
16:49 < unnicked893> that
16:50 <+sadimusi> it's easier than modifying the client
16:51 < unnicked893> sadimusi: modifying the client is easier than writing a proxy
16:51 <+sadimusi> sure there are tools like mcp but it's still a major pita to wait for them to release it and then recompile everything
16:51 <+sadimusi> once you have a proxy the only thing you need to do is to update the protocol
16:52 < unnicked893> sadimusi: do have a proxy, you must code it or get from somebody
16:52 < unnicked893> in first case, it is easier to modify client or server
16:52 < unnicked893> in latter case you risk your account / etc
16:52 <+sadimusi> yes, but there are a lot of proxies around
16:52 <+sadimusi> you run them on your own machine of course
16:53 < unnicked893> sadimusi: the proxy itself may do something you don't want
16:53 < unnicked893> ESPECIALLY if you run it on your own machine
16:53 <+sadimusi> you could unplug your network
16:53 <+sadimusi> or use something like little snitch
16:53 <+sadimusi> or just inspect the code
16:53 < unnicked893> sadimusi: running client, proxy and server at localhost without network?
16:53 < unnicked893> i think nobody ever did that
16:53 <+sadimusi> yes
16:54 <+sadimusi> of course people do that
16:54 < unnicked893> sadimusi: issue remains, though. a proxy may install a backdoor
16:54 < unnicked893> that will do something when networking is up
16:54 <+sadimusi> run it in a virtual machine then
16:54 < unnicked893> especially if its mustdie OS
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16:54 < unnicked893> sadimusi: java performance will be horrible there
16:54 <+sadimusi> only the proxy
16:55 <+sadimusi> none of them are written in java
16:55 < unnicked893> now that's what nobody ever did
16:55 <+sadimusi> at least not the ones used for debugging
16:55 < unnicked893> people are like "oh hai proxy, i will just download you and run by admin account"
16:55 <+sadimusi> of course they don't, nobody's that paranoid
16:55 < ughman> is this somehow different from client modifications
16:56 <+sadimusi> yeah, do you trust mcp?
16:56 < unnicked893> sadimusi: my point is - if you write a client or server, you must implement debug in it
16:56 <+sadimusi> wait, are you pbunny again?
16:57 < SinZ> its hard to remember
16:57 < unnicked893> what is mcp
16:58 <+sadimusi> you want to mod the client without knowing mcp?
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16:59 < unnicked893> sadimusi: i meant - debugging client that you coded yourself
16:59 < unnicked893> what is the point of debugging vanilla or somebody else's client anyway
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17:00 <+sadimusi> if your protocol parsing isn't working correctly it helps a lot to compare its debugging output with a proxy to see where it goes wrong
17:01 < unnicked893> sadimusi: if it isn't working correctly, proxy won't be able to understand it, too
17:01 < unnicked893> proxy is not some magic "what-did-he-meant-by-this-packet" guesser
17:01 <+sadimusi> I'll just stop this discussion here. it isn't going anywhere
17:02 < unnicked893> sadimusi: you can just compare traffic from your client to vanilla's
17:02 < unnicked893> same with server
17:02 < unnicked893> don't see how proxy helps anything
17:02 < unnicked893> except creating problems
17:02 < unnicked893> i.e. you can trigger a bug in proxy itself, and then spend months figuring out what's wrong with your code
17:07 < ughman> so you're saying, instead of making a proxy, someone should make an entire server just to see what's going on in the packet stream?
17:08 < Yoshi2> or make a mod which shows the additional information about the packets being sent, which could also contain bugs
17:09 < unnicked893> ughman:no...
17:09 < unnicked893> ughman: if you debug your own client (that you code), you can simply add debug output for packets
17:10 < unnicked893> it's probably easier than downloading and running a proxy
17:10 < TkTech> sadimusi: That backlog was painful to read.
17:10 < ughman> and if you're misunderstanding the structure of a certain packet entirely, looking at what you're sending in hex isn't going to help much
17:11 < unnicked893> Yoshi2: if you need guaranteed bugless solution, just use packet sniffer on your machine
17:11 < unnicked893> ughman: lol
17:11 < ughman> if only there was a proxy sitting between you and the server that told you exactly what you were sending and where it was going wrong
17:11 < unnicked893> if you're misunderstanding the structure entirely, proxy won't understand it too
17:11 < unnicked893> so you ain't getting anywhere
17:11 < unnicked893> and if you are actually sending something, at least you know what exactly you send, not just hex
17:12 < unnicked893> <ughman> if only there was a proxy sitting between you and the server that told you exactly what you were sending and where it was going wrong
17:12 < Yoshi2> you know what you send, but you don't know what you are supposed to receive
17:12 < unnicked893> aha, so you need a magic "i-think-this-packet-should-be-x" guesser
17:12 < unnicked893> not just proxy
17:12 < unnicked893> and it's impossible
17:12 < unnicked893> Yoshi2: you can debug received hex
17:12 < ughman> yeah I'm just going to stop arguing with you here before I get myself banned from this channel
17:13 < unnicked893> lol, why would you be banned?
17:14 < unnicked893> ughman: the point is - if proxy understands the packet, the server will understand it too
17:14 < unnicked893> if server can't understand - nor will the proxy
17:14 < unnicked893> unless its a magical protocol guesser/oracle
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19:03 < kev009__> TkTech: what's the cleanup script?
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19:16 < TkTech> kev009__: Hmm, I forget the name, one moment
19:17 < TkTech> kev009__: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:RemoveUnusedAccounts.php
19:17 < TkTech> kev009__: That *should* nuke about 99% of them
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21:15 < workshifter> so the chunk location array holds 4 bytes per chunk, the first 3 being offset... what exactly is the fourth?
21:15 < workshifter> minecraftwiki.net says "sector count", but i can't seem to find any real description of it
21:17 < clonejo_> workshifter: Which packet are you referring to?
21:17 < workshifter> is that as simple as the number of sections in that chunk? e.g. 16 in all cases for a fully-generated chunk?
21:17 < workshifter> http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Region_file_format#Chunk_Location
21:18 < dexter0> sector count refers to the size of the chunk within the region file *4096 (the size of a sector).
21:18 < workshifter> yay for more days spent at work trying to find a chunk error bug in this region writer library that i didn't create, lol
21:19 < workshifter> how could it, if it's only one byte?
21:19 < dexter0> because 1 byte has range of 0-255
21:19 < workshifter> seems like 4096 is slightly larger than that
21:19 < workshifter> lol
21:19 < dexter0> multiplied by 4096 it is sufficient 
21:19 < dexter0> No, chunk size = sector count * 4096
21:19 < workshifter> ah
21:19 < workshifter> h
21:20 < workshifter> hm
21:20 < dexter0> you won't have a chunck with size > 255*4096
21:20 < workshifter> yeah
21:22 < workshifter> would it be safe to then just set that byte to 255 across the board?
21:22 < workshifter> rather than the 1 it currently is?
21:23 < dexter0> not really, you'll bloat your region files unnecessarily.
21:24 < workshifter> then what's the practical consequence of it being 1 when the file gets written?
21:25 < workshifter> context: i'm attempting to debug chunk errors in a region file writer written by a friend
21:25 < dexter0> it means the chunk is taking up 4096 bytes of space
21:25 < dexter0> 1*4096 = 4096
21:25 < dexter0> err less than or equal to 4096 bytes of space.
21:26 < workshifter> soo
21:26 < workshifter> hang on, i might be connecting something here
21:26 < workshifter> http://i.imgur.com/TJ3F9y4.png
21:26 < workshifter> this is the region i created
21:26 < dexter0> I can't look at links atm.
21:27 < workshifter> and if memory serves, the chunk errors seem to happen around the "thicker" parts of the map
21:27 < workshifter> could it be that said sector count byte being hard-set is screwing with MC's interpretation of where that chunk data is?
21:27 < dexter0> are you reading or writing?
21:27 < workshifter> writing
21:28 < dexter0> ok, you need to have all of the chunks compressed and know their compressed size.
21:28 < workshifter> 4096 refers to the max size of a given section, correct?
21:28 < dexter0> then you write out the region file header.
21:28 < workshifter> i can get the compressed size of the chunk data easily enough
21:28 < dexter0> then you start writing each chunk, keeping track of where in the file you wrote it and how large it is (each rounded to 4096)
21:29 < dexter0> then you re-write the header with this information filled in
21:29 < dexter0> That is, every chunk starts on a 4096 boundary and takes up a multiple of 4096 bytes of space no matter how large it actually is
21:30 < workshifter> i think i see
21:30 < dexter0> cail(size/4096) = sector count for that chunk
21:30 < dexter0> ceil*
21:30 < workshifter> so the artifact i'm seeing is a result of MC loading the region file, and every now and then, running into a chunk that's 2*4096 bytes (for example), but being told that it's only 4096 anyway
21:31 < dexter0> likely
21:31 < workshifter> it's always nice when the line of code in question has a comment //No idea
21:31 < workshifter> lol
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21:45 < workshifter> yup, that looks like the problem
21:45 < workshifter> explains why it's only "dense" chunks that glitch 
21:46 < dexter0> which library is this btw?
21:46 < workshifter> a custom one a friend of mine wrote
21:46 < workshifter> lol
21:46 < workshifter> as he was writing a custom raytracer...
21:46 < dexter0> ah, what lang.?
21:46 < workshifter> c#
21:48 < workshifter> it's currently working in conjunction with a procedural region generator i wrote in xna
21:48 < workshifter> fun project
21:48 < workshifter> any idea how mc's built-in worldgen works? not the algorithms, but the process, the acquiring of the data
21:48 < workshifter> the ultimate goal would be to completely replace the skylands worldgen on my server
21:49 < workshifter> because fuck the end, skylands was better
21:49 < dexter0> no idea about worldgen.  It's an interesting problem but not one I'm interested in.
21:50 < workshifter> it'd be awesome if mc said "give me the chunk data at world chunk x,y,z", and the function just returned that
21:50 < workshifter> i could hijack that no problem
21:51 < dexter0> If you do build a functional MC-like world gen in c#, SirCmpwn over in #craft.net might be interested in adding it to his custom c# server.
21:54 <+SpaceManiac> workshifter: it actually is approximately like that
21:54 < workshifter> woot
21:54 < workshifter> the same NBT format?
21:54 <+SpaceManiac> I don't know the precise internals, just the general process
21:55 < workshifter> ah
21:55 <+SpaceManiac> two steps - generate all needed chunks (16x16x256), then populate ones that aren't on the edge (trees, villages, etc.)
21:55 < workshifter> i gotta say, i kinda like my trees better than minecraft's, lol
21:55 < workshifter> same with vegetation distribution in general
21:56 < workshifter> my vegetation maps are also affected by elevation, so there aren't really dense forests near the top of the map, only at the bottom
21:56 < workshifter> however, i do need the flag that tells MC to generate ores
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22:03 < TkTech> workshifter: Which library?
22:03 < workshifter> TkTech: custom
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22:23 < workshifter> yup, that was it
22:24 < workshifter> thanks, dexter0
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22:28 -!- mode/#mcdevs [-bbbb libminecraft!*@* *!*@*24-197-239-170* *!*quassel@*.members.linode.com *!*Shnaw@*.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] by TkTech
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22:38 < workshifter> o_O
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22:48 < dx> well.. uhh...
22:48 < dx> clearing the ban list is usually not a good idea in any channel, but whatever.
22:49 < dx> and i suspect sircmpwn won't bother to rejoin
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22:59 < TkTech> dx: Most of those haven't been here in years, and you need to clean it since it's capped.
23:00 < TkTech> I've been here for 6 years, 35 weeks, 4 days. Think I've got the gist of it.
23:00 < dx> lol.
23:00 < dx> oh you did keep a few
23:01 < dx> nevermind then.
23:01 < TkTech> Of course, I'm not going to just nuke the entire list ;\
23:01 < dx> there's people who do that
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23:34 < shoghicp> TkTech: is notifico down?
23:34 < shoghicp> even the domain
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00:49 < rizorko> Hi there! Can you help me? I want to simply send ping test result from my VB.Net Server to MC 1.4.7 client. How can I do that?
00:49 <+sadimusi> hi
00:49 < rizorko> Oh, and sorry for my English, i'm from Russia...
00:49 <+sadimusi> do you have any knowledge of the minecraft protocol already?
00:50 < rizorko> A little
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00:50 < rizorko> I investigated this link: http://mc.kev009.com/Protocol
00:50 <+sadimusi> the ping mechanic has it's own page: http://wiki.vg/Server_List_Ping
00:51 < rizorko> I need a really simple programm on Vb.Net, that will send result packet to client... I saw that page
00:51 <+sadimusi> basically the client sends you a single 0xfe byte and you have to reply with a kick packet
00:51 < rizorko> I can't for mresult byte array to send
00:52 < rizorko> My client says "Connection Error"
00:52 <+sadimusi> I have absolutely no knowledge of VB.Net, but you have to find a way to encode your answer as a UCS-2 string
00:53 < rizorko> How can I form string of the responce? In human-readable form? Then, I can encode it to UCS-2 and send as byte array
00:54 <+sadimusi> you can try it with any string first, the client will display it
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00:55 <+sadimusi> later you should encode all your server's information in this string as is described on the wiki
00:55 < rizorko> Are u sure? I sent the responce, that contained "Blah", and client sayed "Connection Error".
00:55 < ughman> you can encode to big endian UTF-16 pretty easily, which is similar enough
00:56 < rizorko> http://puu.sh/37Lvu.png Same result, "Connection Error"
00:57 <+sadimusi> I'm pretty sure your packet isn't formatted correctly
00:57 <+sadimusi> you have to send 0xff, followed by the length of your string as a big endian short
00:57 <+sadimusi> then comes the string as UCS-2 / UTF-16
00:58 < rizorko> Can you form it on Vb.Net or C#? Or even on C++ ?
00:59 < rizorko> In vanilla MC server, I can't find a part of code, that sends this info
01:00 < rizorko> I can't even navigate trougn that code
01:00 < rizorko> It's really big and messy
01:00 <+sadimusi> you can use mcp to unobfuscate it a bit
01:01 <+sadimusi> craft.net is written in c#, maybe that helps you
01:01 <+sadimusi> https://github.com/SirCmpwn/Craft.Net/blob/master/Craft.Net/Packets.cs#L3036
01:02 <+sadimusi> https://github.com/SirCmpwn/Craft.Net/blob/master/Craft.Net/MinecraftStream.cs#L276
01:02 <+sadimusi> I have to go now, I have an exam in 12 hours and still a lot of learning to do
01:03 < rizorko> Thanks a lot for help
01:03 < rizorko> I'll have a look at craft.net
01:10 < rizorko> Anyohe here?
01:10 < rizorko> Tried to do like craft.net, but the same problem
01:13 < ughman> send 0xFF byte, send length of string in characters as 2 bytes big endian, send UCS-2 string
01:14 < rizorko> 0xFF is the same as ClientStream.WriteByte(254), right?
01:21 < ughman> no
01:21 < ughman> it's 255
01:21 < ughman> FE is 254
01:22 < rizorko> Still, nothing... http://puu.sh/37Mqu.png
01:22 < ughman> err
01:23 < rizorko> What?
01:23 < ughman> where are you getting 254 from
01:23 < rizorko> The wiki says, that I can ignore size bytes...
01:24 < rizorko> "You can actually ignore the length..."
01:24 < ughman> huh
01:24 < ughman> where does it say that
01:25 < rizorko> http://mc.kev009.com/Server_List_Ping, "Server -> Client" section
01:25 < ughman> oh, no
01:25 < ughman> they're saying that if you write a client you can ignore the length
01:26 < ughman> the server has to send the right length to the client
01:27 < rizorko> I need to send it two times?
01:29 < rizorko> I can't understand this bytes and encodings...
01:30 < rizorko> Why it's so simple in Java?
01:32 < ughman> http://pastebin.com/Kbsb8J6x
01:33 < ughman> this is what I have
01:33 < ughman> I'd do WriteByte(0xFF) and then WriteString("Test kick message")
01:33 < ughman> also you can do something like 0xFF in vb.net
01:33 < ughman> it's like
01:33 < ughman> &HFF I think
01:34 < ughman> sorry for all the separate messages, I do that usually on irc
01:35 < rizorko> How should I encode your "Test kick message" in Vb.net?
01:35 < rizorko> Can you push me a screenshot of this function?
01:35 < rizorko> I mean WriteString
01:36 < ughman> I can try to make it into vb.net but I haven't used that language in a while
01:38 < rizorko> That will be great, thanks!
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01:45 < ughman> rizorko: maybe this? http://pastebin.com/7BmUUVU7
01:47 < rizorko> WriteBuffer?
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01:51 < ughman> http://pastebin.com/tMfWAbUJ
01:52 < rizorko> Argh... I knew it...
01:52 < rizorko> Thanks, i'll try
01:54 < rizorko> So, right near ping level in Multiplayer menu, I see 1.3. What should I do to send MOTD and online?
01:55 < ughman> 1.3 as in, the version number 1.3?
01:55 < rizorko> Yes
01:55 < rizorko> "Server is outdated!"
01:55 < ughman> hmm, don't know that one, sorry
01:56 < ughman> oh
01:56 < ughman> http://mc.kev009.com/Server_List_Ping
01:56 < ughman> at the server->client part there
01:57 < rizorko> Can you form me the responce using WriteString and WriteByte? Cause i hate this bytes, bits, digits...
01:57 < rizorko> I can't understand the structure of this packetn
02:00 < ughman> they make a bunch of strings and join them together into one string with VbNullChar in between them
02:02 < rizorko> What protocol # should I use for 1.4.7?
02:02 < ughman> I do not know
02:02 < rizorko> By the way, http://puu.sh/37NPj.png
02:03 <+SirCmpwn> rizorko: show me your code
02:03 <+SirCmpwn> no promises, since I'm a C# guy, but I grok .NET
02:04 < rizorko> Sure, http://pastebin.com/fDAbdpY6
02:04 <+SirCmpwn> rizorko: also, see this: https://github.com/SirCmpwn/Craft.Net/blob/master/Craft.Net.Server/Handlers/PacketHandlers.cs#L46
02:05 <+SirCmpwn> Dim inBytes As Byte() = Encoding.Unicode.GetBytes("Ahaha")
02:05 <+SirCmpwn> needs to be Dim inBytes As Byte() = Encoding.BigEndianUnicode.GetBytes("Ahaha")
02:05 <+SirCmpwn> ah, forget it, you discard that variable without using it
02:06 < rizorko> Yup
02:06 <+SirCmpwn> rizorko: so you're using a 1.3.x client to ping this server, and it shows as outdated?
02:06 < rizorko> So, my client just shows me 1.3, red cross over ping level and no MOTD...
02:07 < rizorko> I use 1.4.7
02:07 < rizorko> I am using *
02:07 <+SirCmpwn> that's quite interesting
02:07 <+SirCmpwn> are you accidentally running another server on the same machine?
02:07 < rizorko> No, 100%
02:07 <+SirCmpwn> Minecraft just writes out the value you give it, it'd say your server was version "foo" if you said so
02:08 < rizorko> I gave it 1.4.7, you can see pastebin and check it
02:08 <+SirCmpwn> rizorko: try flushing the underlying stream before closing the client
02:09 <+SirCmpwn> rizorko: also, I know you're targeting 1.4.7, but have you considered giving Craft.Net a try? It already supports all of this
02:10 < rizorko> SirCmpwn: Flushed, nothing changed
02:10 <+SirCmpwn> how interesting
02:11 <+SirCmpwn> rizorko: would you run it through SMProxy and give me the log?
02:11 < rizorko> Also, about craft.net - I am trying to write a server specially for our host machine...
02:11 <+SirCmpwn> rizorko: You needn't use all of Craft.Net, it offers a library that just does the networking and nothing else
02:13 < rizorko> Can I have an exe for SMProxy?
02:13 < TkTech> shoghicp: (#notifico, FYI) Yes, digitalocean fucked up. Back up.
02:14 <+SirCmpwn> rizorko: note: this executable is for 1.5, but the ping stuff didn't change
02:14 <+SirCmpwn> rizorko: http://sircmpwn.github.io/SMProxy/downloads/SMProxy-1.5.exe
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02:16 < rizorko> SirCmpwn: I can't see the logfile
02:16 <+SirCmpwn> rizorko: how did you invoke SMProxy
02:16 < rizorko> Huh, understood
02:16 < rizorko> I used dclick
02:17 <+SirCmpwn> rizorko: it's a command line tool, even though double clicking it will probably work
02:17 <+SirCmpwn> rizorko: run it and add "localhost:25564" to your minecraft server list
02:18 < rizorko> Crashed
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02:18 < rizorko> Your tool
02:18 <+SirCmpwn> give exception
02:18 <+SirCmpwn> in a pastebin, not the channel
02:18 < rizorko> It closed
02:18 <+SirCmpwn> run it from a command line
02:19 < rizorko> It sayed "server disconnected:" and that's all
02:19 <+SirCmpwn> and you should have a log file
02:20 < rizorko> There it is
02:20 < rizorko> http://pastebin.com/AZzaJiSj
02:20 <+SirCmpwn> well would you look at that
02:21 < rizorko> By the way - my minecraft is forge modded. If it is reasonable.
02:21 <+SirCmpwn> you aren't actually writing the string
02:21 <+SirCmpwn> you write a string whose length is zero
02:21 < rizorko> I used ughman's functions
02:22 < rizorko> Probably, from your server
02:22 <+SirCmpwn> ughman's functions?
02:22 < dx> oh hi SirCmpwn
02:22 <+SirCmpwn> why not grab the Craft.Net MinecraftStream code and wrap your network stream in it
02:22 <+SirCmpwn> hi dx
02:23 < rizorko> Sir, you can see my source and check it
02:23 < rizorko> I can't understand, where's the problem
02:23 <+SirCmpwn> it looks fine, but I'm not certain, because it's VB
02:23 <+SirCmpwn> (and I don't know VB)
02:24 < rizorko> It's pretty the same as C Sharp
02:24 <+SirCmpwn> I've always wondered
02:24 <+SirCmpwn> what is "Dim" short for in VB
02:24 < ughman> it's a declaration
02:24 < ughman> I think I see what's wrong
02:25 <+SirCmpwn> yeah, but declaration doesn't start with dim
02:25 < rizorko> ughman, what?
02:25 < ughman> Dim buffer(1) As Byte
02:25 < ughman> should be 0 not 1
02:25 <+SirCmpwn> wat
02:25 <+SirCmpwn> doesn't that declare an array whose length is 1 byte
02:25 < ughman> Dim buffer(0) in vb.net is actually short for Dim buffer(0 To 0)
02:25 < ughman> so 1 is 0 to 1 which has 2 bytes
02:25 < ughman> it's stupid
02:26 < ughman> but it's carried over from vb6 and its past
02:26 <+SirCmpwn> alright, but that doesn't really fix the problem
02:26 <+SirCmpwn> http://pastebin.com/AZzaJiSj
02:26 < rizorko> http://puu.sh/37OE9.png
02:26 <+SirCmpwn> what he should really do there is just use stream.writebyte
02:27 < rizorko> Alright, http://puu.sh/37OGX.png
02:27 < rizorko> It worked!
02:27 < rizorko> But why 1.4.7 is red crossed?
02:27 <+SirCmpwn> how did you change the code?
02:28 <+SirCmpwn> 1.47 is protocol version 52, not 50
02:28 < rizorko> Just cutted one vbNullChar before "$1"
02:28 <+SirCmpwn> should've seen that, sorry
02:29 < rizorko> That's my stupid error
02:29 <+SirCmpwn> wait, what
02:29 <+SirCmpwn> your code doesn't have that
02:29 < rizorko> So, what about red cross near 1.4.7?
02:29 <+SirCmpwn> >1.47 is protocol version 52, not 50
02:29 < rizorko> I didn't understand the wiki in the right way
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02:30 <+SirCmpwn> the wiki is hard to read when you're trying to support old versions
02:30 < rizorko> I hav ver 52
02:30 <+SirCmpwn> WriteString("§1" + vbNullChar + "50" + vbNullChar + "1.4.7" + vbNullChar + "Test" + vbNullChar + "20" + vbNullChar + "30", ClientStream)
02:30 <+SirCmpwn> needs to be 52
02:30 < rizorko> It's 52
02:31 <+SirCmpwn> same problem?
02:31 < rizorko> Ok, i want to sleep
02:31 < rizorko> So, thanks a lot for help
02:31 < rizorko> I'll join at mornung
02:31 < rizorko> morning*
02:31 < rizorko> Bye
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02:31 < ughman> heh
02:34 <+SirCmpwn> I wonder if that guy will be successful
02:35 < ughman> I have doubts
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02:50  * dx pokes SirCmpwn
02:50 <+SirCmpwn> hello dx
02:51  * SpaceManiac whistles
02:51 < dx> SirCmpwn: sup, i, uhm, wanted to ask. did you learn to be a nice person while you were away from this channel?
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02:52  * dx never had problems with SirCmpwn but is worried about people who did in the past
02:53 <+SirCmpwn> I'm only here because TkTech /invited me here
02:53 <+SirCmpwn> I don't intend to answer such questions
02:53 < dx> hah
02:54 < TkTech> dx: That's an incredibly stupid question and honestly you should know better.
02:54 < dx> TkTech: :D
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02:57 < dx> i sure feel like saying childish things today
02:58 < dx> and that's not a good mood to talk about serious topics.
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04:29 < kryton> hey.. I want to write a plugin that runs in a separate thread via bukkit ideally. I understand MC is singlethreaded so I was wondering how others have approached this
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05:02 <+SpaceManiac> kryton: you'll get more Bukkit help on their channels, but the gist of it is do your 'heavy lifting' on a separate thread and exchange with MC itself on the main thread
05:02 < kryton> y.. i'll ask there.. i was hoping I could cut+paste something ;-)
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05:50 <+SirCmpwn> sadimusi: you know that burger has been broken for all the most recent snapshots, right?
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06:30 < kev009__> TkTech: it only considers activated accounts or something.  it only finds 3
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11:23 < nastyCreeper> hi
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12:41 < nastyCreeper> lol @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St0ZXOrxctY
12:48 <+md_5> <md_5> .haspaid testnick
12:48 <+md_5> <CafeBabe> (md_5) The account "testnick" is not a premium Minecraft account!
12:48 <+md_5> please explain
12:49 <+md_5> or are you just using that 'nick' to hide the fact your account isnt premium
12:49 <+md_5> also that is the glitchiest pig ever
12:50 < barneygale> nastyCreeper doesn't have an account
12:50 < unnicked893> md_5 that wasn't me playing
12:50 < nastyCreeper> unnicked893 ?
12:50 <+md_5> testnick isnt an account either
12:51 < unnicked893> testnick looks like temporary nick for testing
12:52 < nastyCreeper> unnicked893: who are you?
12:52 < unnicked893> a nobody
12:52 <+md_5> why dafaq do you need a captcha
12:52 < nastyCreeper> md_5 no idea but i like it :)
12:52 < barneygale> is the captcha your idea nastyCreeper ?
12:52 <+md_5> also
12:52 < nastyCreeper> no it was before me
12:53 < barneygale> hold on, you're a dev for nessus? I thought you maintained you didn't know pbunny?
12:53 < barneygale> or am I getting mixed up
12:53 < SinZ> ^
12:53 < SinZ> Pbunny didn't have a valid MC account either
12:53 < nastyCreeper> barneygale: i got to know him after all your shouting about him
12:54 < barneygale> oh come on
12:54 < nastyCreeper> and now i dev some stuff there
12:54 < nastyCreeper> are you accusing me of something again?
12:54 < barneygale> Did I ever stop/
12:54 < nastyCreeper> well you should have long ago
12:54 < nastyCreeper> it's not constructive to purpose of this channel
12:55 < SinZ> well if we are going to have a ban list, we may aswell keep it functional
12:55 < barneygale> It's not constructive to allow banned users, users who argue with the mojang devs about pointless bullshit, and users who build servers that facilitate piracy to allow in this channel.
12:55 < barneygale> err
12:55 < barneygale> Switch that last "allow" for "remain" ;D
12:56 < nastyCreeper> can you proof any of your statements?
12:57 < SinZ> you were first join after he was banned, and wanted to dev in C, and have the exact same attitude
12:57 < barneygale> iirc the first thing you did was complain about OOP
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12:57 < barneygale> I can't think of another user since I joined this channel in ~november 2011 who did that
12:57 < nastyCreeper> SinZ: my attitude is ok, seeing how he is slandering me 24/7
12:58 < SinZ> I highly doubt he is slandering you during sleep, and when he is sleeping
12:58 < nastyCreeper> barneygale: all serious C coders hate oop
12:58 < barneygale> You're not a coder.
12:58 < nastyCreeper> i.e. try telling about advantages of oop in ##c
12:59 < barneygale> What? You try telling them OOP has no place in a large game server. Or don't, because there's no point bringing 3rd parties into this really
12:59 < barneygale> Sticking closer to home, does anyone in this channel agree with you?
13:00 < barneygale> I can't recall anyone ever voicing any support for your position.
13:00 < nastyCreeper> must they agree? i'm fine with my opinions as they are
13:00 < barneygale> And what supports your position? You yourself say that computer science is bullshit, and there's no place for theory in coding.
13:00 < nastyCreeper> barneygale: well pbunny agrees with me :)
13:00 < barneygale> alts do not count.
13:00 < SinZ> he is also banned in ##c
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13:01 < nastyCreeper> SinZ: don't see ban for him there
13:01 < barneygale> You can't exactly say you have an advantage in education, nor in experience. The people who disagree with you outweigh you on both those fronts.
13:01 < nastyCreeper> obviously they don't ban for disliking oop and java :)
13:01 < nastyCreeper> education and experience aren't the most important part in programming
13:01 < nastyCreeper> ability to think is
13:02 < barneygale> And you think you're better at that than everyone else here?
13:02 <+Zaneo> Which generally comes from?
13:02 < nastyCreeper> barneygale: where did i say so?
13:02 < nastyCreeper> Zaneo: good genes, good health, good brain configuration
13:02 <+Zaneo> >education and experience
13:02 < nastyCreeper> anybody can get education and experience
13:02 < barneygale> Well, your position that OOP and Java are bad comes from your rationale that the best coders don't need experience and education, they need "an ability to think" (I love how you think these are disjoint)
13:03 < SinZ> experience is the only way to get good in programming
13:03 < nastyCreeper> barneygale: they need knowledge, but that's not the only thing they need
13:03 < edk> SinZ: experience is necessary but not suffcient
13:03 < edk> sufficient, too
13:03 < nastyCreeper> and in modern world, google can give knowledge any time you need it
13:03 < barneygale> So if we think Java and OOP have a place in a game that resolves around objects and hierarchy, does that mean we "think" worse than you?
13:03 < nastyCreeper> so keeping knowledge in memory is not that important now
13:04 < nastyCreeper> barneygale: can you describe the reasons why OOP have a place there?
13:04 <+Zaneo> nastyCreeper, this isn't really the channel for it...
13:04 < barneygale> Certainly. I mostly work with proxies. OOP allows me to write multiple protocol handlers for different versions of minecraft, without reusing code.
13:05 <+Zaneo> and by "it" I mean bickering
13:05 < edk> uh, do you mean with reuisng code?
13:05 <+md_5> switch (packetId) {
13:05 <+md_5>     switch (protocol version) {
13:05 < nastyCreeper> md_5 ++
13:05 < nastyCreeper> easy as that
13:05 <+md_5>        case 63: readInt();
13:05 <+md_5>    }
13:05 <+md_5> }
13:05 <+md_5> that was not a demonstration of easiness
13:05 < nastyCreeper> anyway, supporting multiple protocols isn't normally needed
13:05 < nastyCreeper> so it's a bad example
13:05 < SinZ> maintaining multiple protocol versions is a nice feature though
13:05 <+md_5> http://www.dotnetperls.com/oop
13:05 < nastyCreeper> or you could also say that oop is good because you can combine mc server with http and ftp server
13:06 < barneygale> what?
13:06 < barneygale> do you even know what oop is?
13:06 < edk> nastyCreeper: suppose I want to find a substring in the string "foobaraarbarbarbarbarpx123".
13:06 <+md_5> barneygale yes, its where you allocate stack memory with malloc(..)
13:06 < nastyCreeper> yes, it's a weird curly braces flood
13:06 < edk> nastyCreeper: without referring to theory, what's the most efficient way to do so?
13:06 <+md_5> what about good old jeff atwood: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2007/03/your-code-oop-or-poo.html
13:07 < nastyCreeper> edk: why do you ask?
13:07 < edk> nastyCreeper: to see what your answer is
13:07 < nastyCreeper> well you find first char in substring, they loop finding 2, 3 and so on until you miss one, then you find first char starting from last position
13:08 < nastyCreeper> if you find all ones you break
13:08 -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has joined #mcdevs
13:08 < nastyCreeper> first char of substring in string *
13:09 <+Zaneo> nastyCreeper, there are books dedicated to string searching
13:09 < edk> that's not the most efficient way but more importantly it'll actually miss strings
13:09 < edk> in my example, take the substring "barbarbarp"
13:09 < edk> your search finds the first "barbarbar", starts at the end (beginning of "barp") and misses that too
13:09 < nastyCreeper> Zaneo: good. there are also books dedicated to cooking
13:09 < edk> try again
13:10 < nastyCreeper> or collecting butterflies
13:10 <+Zaneo> nastyCreeper, for which people attempting to get better at said skill usually read
13:10 <+md_5> > claims not to be pbunny
13:10 <+md_5> > works on same project as pbunny
13:10 < barneygale> md_5: kb him already
13:10 < barneygale> and ban all nessus devs
13:10 <+md_5> > not listed as author of said project, whilst pbunny is
13:10 < barneygale> they facilitate piracy
13:10 < nastyCreeper> barneygale: wow you're really mad now
13:10 <+md_5> barneygale I cant?
13:11 < nastyCreeper> barneygale: what piracy?
13:11 < nastyCreeper> stop spreading shit here
13:11 < barneygale> Oh you're only +v
13:11 < edk> :(
13:11 <+Zaneo> Do we need a kickban?
13:11 < barneygale> I'm colourblind as fuck, sorry
13:11 <+md_5> whats the silly freenode list command
13:11 < edk> /cs access #mdevs list
13:11 < SinZ> nastyCreeper: ...both you and pbunny don't have an MC account, yet you still filmed a showcase of the server
13:11 < edk> mcdevs, too
13:11 <+md_5> its like /cs show access #channel or something
13:11 < nastyCreeper> SinZ: i have an account.
13:11 <+md_5> nope, no unexpected promotions for me
13:12 < barneygale> bah
13:12 <+md_5> Website coding
13:12 <+md_5> your website
13:12 <+md_5> is so pro
13:12 < barneygale> nastyCreeper: last time I asked you, you wouldn't tell me what it was
13:12 <+md_5> must have whole team dedicated to that
13:12 < edk> md_5: where is his website?
13:12 <+md_5> http://nessus.lv/ourteam
13:12 < nastyCreeper> barneygale: until court requests it from me, i am not obliged to
13:12 < nastyCreeper> feel free to place a trial
13:12 <+md_5> ooh his server is up: nessus.lv:6374
13:12 < barneygale> nastyCreeper: you seem to be confusing #mcdevs with the US government
13:13 < barneygale> you don't have 5th amendment rights here.
13:13 < nastyCreeper> barneygale: #mcdevs don't have "tell us your account name" rule
13:13 < zutto> wait, this channel isnt directly linked to whitehouse and US leaders?
13:13 < edk> zutto: it is, TkTech runs the universe
13:13 < barneygale> nastyCreeper: nor does it have a rule whereby your refusal to divulge the name can't be used against you.
13:13 -!- mode/#mcdevs [+o Zaneo] by ChanServ
13:13 < zutto> edk: oh good, for a moment there i was wondering why i was here
13:13 < nastyCreeper> Zaneo: don't.
13:13 <+md_5> who dafaq is Zaneo 
13:14 <@Zaneo> Don't what?
13:14 < nastyCreeper> don't do what these morons ask you to
13:14 < nastyCreeper> i.e. ban nessus devs
13:14 <@Zaneo> Don't cause problems
13:14 < barneygale> Zaneo: have a really nice day
13:14 < nastyCreeper> Zaneo: do i cause?
13:14 < nastyCreeper> they just spread stuff like i don't have account name, server is about piracy, etc
13:15 < nastyCreeper> well at least they don't claim me making cp
13:15 <+md_5> http://screencloud.net/v/4UXs
13:15 <@Zaneo> yeah just a little, you've made a number of inflammatory comments
13:15 < edk> I'd like to point out that I don't claim any of those things, I just think you're an annoying troll without any skills
13:15 < SinZ> ^
13:15 <+md_5> "This server has online-mode=false"
13:15 < nastyCreeper> edk: feel f ree to keep your opinion
13:15 -!- mode/#mcdevs [-o Zaneo] by Zaneo
13:15 < nastyCreeper> md_5: discuss it with pbunny, i'm not in charge
13:15 < barneygale> nastyCreeper: we are.
13:15 < nastyCreeper> i actually don't care about online mode or not
13:15 <+md_5> you *are* pbunny
13:16 < nastyCreeper> NO.
13:16 <+md_5> also you arent sending packet0 keepalives
13:16 < nastyCreeper> yes, to save traffic
13:16 < SinZ> nastyCreeper: have you read the freenode policies btw?
13:16 <+md_5> save traffic
13:16 <+md_5> wat.ong
13:16 < nastyCreeper> you can easily detect if client is online by checking if it sends a shitload of 0x0Ds
13:16 < barneygale> hahahahahahaha you're so obviously pbunny
13:17 < nastyCreeper> if it stops sending them - something's is wrong
13:17 <+Zaneo> md_5, in answer to you question, nobody important I've just been around for a while
13:17 < zutto> indeed he is 
13:17 <+Fador> I feel like C devs are getting a bad name because of this ;)
13:17 <+md_5> Ive been around for year(s) and dont recall you :|
13:17 < nastyCreeper> md_5: you can easily detect if client is online by checking if it sends a shitload of 0x0Ds
13:17 < nastyCreeper> ok?
13:17 <+Zaneo> Before it moved to freenode?
13:17 <+md_5> your captcha is unreadable
13:17 < nastyCreeper> you don't need keepalives
13:18 < nastyCreeper> md_5 consult your oculist maybe, i read it fine
13:18 <+md_5> someone tell me what this is: http://screencloud.net/v/1Oms
13:18 <+md_5> I for the life of me cannot
13:18 < nastyCreeper> also there is /captcha (which refreshes the code)
13:18 <+Matvei> md_5, Zaneo and I have been around before #mcdevs was around, from EsperNet days
13:18 <+md_5> yes, refreshed it tons of times
13:19 <+Matvei> I assure you that his op status is well deserved :P
13:19 <+md_5> anyway
13:19 <+md_5> who can read that captcha for me
13:19 <+md_5> cause I cant
13:19 < edk> My best guess is y
13:19 < nastyCreeper> md_5 screen plz
13:19 <+md_5>  <md_5> someone tell me what this is: http://screencloud.net/v/1Oms
13:19 <+md_5> hm
13:19 < nastyCreeper> a 9
13:19 <+md_5> this looks like 585
13:19  * md_5 tests
13:20 <+md_5> success
13:20 < nastyCreeper> how can't you see the 9 made of furnaces?
13:20 < SinZ> that is a 6 made of furnaces
13:20 < SinZ> S*
13:20 <+md_5> i c now
13:20 <+md_5> that is confusing as hell
13:20 < edk> Not for a computer
13:20 < edk> that's pretty much an anticaptcha
13:20 < nastyCreeper> SinZ: is your monitor by any chance upside down?
13:21 < SinZ> nastyCreeper: is yours?
13:21 < nastyCreeper> md_5: if you can't read captchas, there is a chance you are robot
13:21 < nastyCreeper> SinZ: no, i read it as 9 at once
13:21 < SinZ> then you need your eyes checked
13:21 <+md_5> why would you need captcha
13:21 <+md_5> in an online mode server
13:21 < zutto> is this nessusMS thing a joke?
13:21 <+md_5> oh wait you dont plan online mode
13:21 <+md_5> zutto very much so
13:21 <+md_5> either that or stupidity
13:22 < nastyCreeper> md_5 with offline mode you must do somethign to prevent registrations flooding
13:22 < zutto> "And 256GB of RAM (obtainable easy enough for server by now) can hold about 12000x12000x256 world (depending on entities count, it may be slightly more or less, however entities are more CPU-intensive than memory-intensive), which is enough for most people. "
13:22 < zutto> seriously
13:22 < edk> nastyCreeper: fill the background with white, then edge detect
13:22 < zutto> this has to be a big joke
13:22 <+md_5> uh
13:22 < SinZ> nastyCreeper: do you plan on running the offical thepiratebay.* minecraft server?
13:22 <+md_5> so
13:22 <+md_5> whatever you login as 
13:22 <+md_5> changes your IGN to that
13:22 < nastyCreeper> edk: try that then. while i can agree it's possible to defeat the current captcha, nobody will bother to waste time on it
13:22 <+md_5> bet you your passwords arent hashed
13:23 < nastyCreeper> SinZ: lol, not that i'm aware of
13:23 < SinZ> nobody will bother to waste time solving it as a human
13:23 <+md_5> LOL
13:23 <+md_5> crashed server
13:23 <+md_5> end of stream > connection refused: http://screencloud.net/v/rVvR
13:23 < nastyCreeper> well its beta server.
13:23  * edk chortles
13:23 < nastyCreeper> what did you do btw/
13:23 <+md_5> that was easier than I thought
13:23 < SinZ> Must be the lack of oop
13:23 <+md_5> nastyCreeper power of my mind
13:23 < nastyCreeper> of course it's easy to crash a beta (or should it be called alpha) software
13:23 < edk> not so
13:24 <+md_5> server cant hold me
13:24 < nastyCreeper> try not to explode from proudness
13:24 < edk> /* very alpha exiting program */ int main(void) { return 0; }
13:24 < edk> nastyCreeper: crash that
13:24 < nastyCreeper> edk: it's somewhat simpler than mc server, don't you think?
13:25 < edk> no
13:25 < edk> took many man hours of planning
13:25 < edk> like 0.001 or so
13:25 < nastyCreeper> ok now you're just boring
13:25 < barneygale> I don't understand why you come back here when you know everyone is sick of you
13:26 < nastyCreeper> i can ask you the same
13:26 < edk> Nobody's sick of barney
13:26 < SinZ> ^
13:26 < barneygale> Thank you :]
13:26 < nastyCreeper> ok go on then
13:26 < zutto> i'm here just for the entertainment pbunny provides
13:26 < edk> I still want an answer to my string searching question
13:26 < edk> (a correct one)
13:27 < barneygale> prediction: nastyCreeper, like (!) bunny, doesn't know big O
13:27 < edk> hell, you can't even implement the naive string search correctly
13:27 < nastyCreeper> edk: if i will ever need to write such algorithm by hand, i will google it
13:27 < nastyCreeper> there is no point in keeping everything in memory "just-in-case"
13:27 < nastyCreeper> brain is not infinite
13:27 < nastyCreeper> actually some studies show that abundance of knowledge make it slower
13:27 < edk> nastyCreeper: but you'll find answers involving theory!
13:28 < SinZ> it stores more info than what your computer does
13:28 < edk> nastyCreeper: and we can't have that
13:28 < barneygale> nastyCreeper: people who understand algorithms would be able to deduce an algorithm
13:28 < barneygale> without googling
13:28 < zutto> brains can store upto 2.5 petabytes of information
13:28 < barneygale> It's not about keeping factoids in your head, stupid.
13:28 < SinZ> and you cant trust the answer on the internet, the FBI put it there to get you into a false sense of security
13:28 < zutto> you're still good to go for another 2.4999999999999999 petabytes nastyCreeper 
13:28 < nastyCreeper> barneygale: i will understand it, i just don't have time and desire to reinvent it atm
13:28 < barneygale> reinvent what? a modest understanding of computers?
13:28 < edk> I'm not asking for the perfect solution nastyCreeper 
13:29 < nastyCreeper> zutto: synapses count can vary quite significantly between a database-kind of person and person that prefers google to store info for him
13:29 < edk> indeed since you don't know enough about my question you can't tell what the perfect solution is
13:29 < barneygale> Yeah we just want to see your superior "thinking"
13:29 < nastyCreeper> the more synapses - the longer chains of impulses there can be
13:29 <+Zaneo> Nobody here has anything more productive they wish to be doing?
13:29 < edk> I'm asking for any solution. anyone who's not anidiot could work that out.
13:29 < edk> +spaces
13:29 < nastyCreeper> and the more is energy consumption by brain
13:29 < barneygale> Zaneo: I'm housesitting for my gf
13:29 < nastyCreeper> so it will become tired faster
13:29 <+Zaneo> Like programming, sleeping... watching paint dry...
13:30 < SinZ> I would watch the grass grow, but it is a tad bit dark
13:30 < edk> Zaneo: I'm watching Darwin spin round and round very quickly in his grave
13:30 <+Zaneo> The sun just rose here sinz
13:31 < SinZ> Zaneo: give it back!
13:31 <+Zaneo> If I could send it away I would
13:32 < unnicked893> pbunny is god
13:34 < edk> god of what?
13:34 < edk> mediocrity?
13:34 < barneygale> nastyCreeper: it's a good thing you PM'd pbunny after he was banned. You two share a profound cosmic bond
13:34 < barneygale> it's beautiful :3
13:34 < nastyCreeper> :3
13:35 <+md_5> um
13:35 <+md_5> unnicked893 is part of the nessus dev team guys
13:36 < barneygale> so is nastyCreeper
13:36 <+md_5> yes we know
13:36 <+md_5> was just making clear I just confirmed unnicked893 is too
13:36 < SinZ> a manhunt on nessus MC would be fun
13:37 < edk> find SinZ before the server crashes
13:38 < unnicked893> md_5 i like you
13:39 <+md_5> unnicked893 why do you like me?
13:39 < edk> everyone does
13:39 < edk> md_5 is the original sex god
13:39 <+md_5> circlejerk engage
13:40  * edk turns the stupidity up a gear
13:41 < unnicked893> md_5 no idea
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13:48 -!- fortytwo [~thomas@who.let.this.bloody.dropbear.in] has joined #mcdevs
13:48 -!- Dinnerbone [~dinnerbon@i.could.have.had.any.host.but.i.decided.on.dinnerbone.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
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13:51 < barneygale> Well, I'm going to throw this up, and hopefully TkTech or sadimusi will see it when they come online later
13:51 < barneygale> https://gist.github.com/barneygale/5705361
13:53 < Thinkofdeath> "prohibited under dev.bukkit.org rules" isn't it against the #mcdevs rules as well?
13:54 < nastyCreeper> goddamn you are wicked barneygale
13:54 < nastyCreeper> where did you see piracy
13:54 < barneygale> yeah tis Thinkofdeath
13:54 < nastyCreeper> barneygale: minecraft protocol supports piracy then, because it supports offline mode
13:54 < jast> #mcdevs rules don't forbid it
13:54 < barneygale> I thought they did?
13:54 < jast> this petition is crap
13:55 < barneygale> your petition is crap
13:55 < nastyCreeper> barneygale: should we forbid minecraft protocol here? because you can make offline mode servers with it
13:55 < jast> the rules say the channel isn't going to help anyone with circumventing authentication
13:55 < barneygale> nastyCreeper: what is wrong with you?
13:55 < jast> that's clearly different
13:55 < nastyCreeper> barneygale: you act like a moron <- that
13:55 < nastyCreeper> please stop it and don't try to remove people that can actually help the channel
13:55 < barneygale> "We will not help you circumvent player authentication or otherwise help you pirate the game."
13:56 < nastyCreeper> barneygale: who asked for help on that?
13:56 < nastyCreeper> and piracy isn't involved in any way
13:56 < nastyCreeper> we can even make an explicit rule for our server about that
13:56 < nastyCreeper> will it make you calm?
13:56 < jast> the question of what auth mechanism that server uses is entirely orthogonal to the piracy question
13:57 < nastyCreeper> ++
13:57 < barneygale> jast: how so?
13:57 < jast> piracy is when you download and use the client without a license
13:57 < barneygale> Like the petition says, such a thing is not allowed for bukkit plugins on dev.b.o precisely because of the piracy implications
13:57 < jast> who cares about dev.bukkit.org
13:57 < jast> this is #mcdevs
13:57 < jast> not #bukkitdevs
13:58 < nastyCreeper> "something which is prohibited under dev.bukkit.org rules" - LOL
13:58 < nastyCreeper> what the hell has bukkit to do with this channel (or the world of minecraft development)?
13:58 < barneygale> I'm just saying that they found this reasoning sound enough, what makes you think it's orthogonal?
13:59 < jast> do I need to use smaller words?
13:59 < nastyCreeper> barneygale: and cu clux clan found it reasonable to kill black people
13:59 < jast> piracy is when you illegally use the client
13:59 < nastyCreeper> what makes you think they were orthogonal?
13:59 < barneygale> jast: you can if you like, but I'll pass on the condescension thanks!
13:59 < jast> a server in offline mode makes it neither easier nor harder to pirate the game, therefore it's orthogonal
13:59 < zutto> http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/38397700.jpg <-- i'll just leave this here
13:59 < nastyCreeper> jast: right, and iirc pbunny have plans for custom client after server
13:59 < nastyCreeper> which will remove the piracy question alltogether
14:00 < barneygale> jast: bukkit devs disagree with you. What do you say to their rationale?
14:00 < jast> nor does it encourage people to pirate any more than the fact that you can play singleplayer without a license
14:00 < jast> both are illegal
14:00 < nastyCreeper> barneygale: bukkit is shit :)
14:00 < barneygale> thanks pbunny.
14:00 < jast> barneygale: you have not bothered to provide a reference to their rationale yet
14:00 < barneygale> jast: I hardly see why I'm responsible for finding it for you. You're the one picking the argument.
14:01 < jast> I see no need to answer your question if you want me to do all the work required to do so
14:01 < barneygale> Then you concede the point.
14:01 < jast> no
14:01 < barneygale> Uhg
14:01 < jast> you're labouring under a misunderstanding about the concept of burden of truth
14:02 < jast> (or so it seems to me)
14:02 < barneygale> you're speaking in platitudes as if you're the bringer of wisdom to some uncivilised people.
14:02 < jast> well, you're the one making demands based on some as yet unexplained reasoning
14:02 < barneygale> See? I can act like I'm in my first reddit argument too.
14:03 < nastyCreeper> barneygale: can it be that you are just jealous about pbunny and his server progress?
14:03 < barneygale> jast: the reasoning is explained. If you don't want to look it up, then don't sign the petition. But I'm not going to entertain some argument from you if you don't even know what you're arguing against
14:03 < barneygale> It's silly.
14:03 < nastyCreeper> you spend extremely much effort to fight him and everybody related
14:04 < barneygale> nastyCreeper: oh I'm beyond jealous
14:04 < nastyCreeper> barneygale: also i like how signing petition requires a github account
14:04 < barneygale> most active devs here have them.
14:06 < jast> well I've stated my opinion in the "petition".
14:06 < barneygale> "thank you"
14:06 < jast> not that it makes a difference. after all, this channel is not a democracy.
14:07 < barneygale> hence why I'm handing it to the first op to come online.
14:07 < jast> best of luck with that
14:07 < barneygale> thank you
14:07 < dav1d> oh noe
14:07 < dav1d> s
14:07 < dav1d> he is back, we had such a good time
14:11 < edk> what's the ssh escape to force disconnect again
14:11 < edk> i forgot it
14:11 < dav1d> ^D ?
14:11 < jast> <enter> ~ .
14:12 < edk> thanks
14:12 < jast> in the openssh client, anyway
14:12 < edk> yeah, that's what i'm using
14:14 < edk> barneygale: I agree with banning them, but for ban evasion, rather than piracy :p
14:16 < barneygale> jast: replied with a couple of quotes from TkTech and sadimusi.
14:17 < jast> that's nice. it doesn't change my point of view, but I'm also not in charge of the channel. net effect: zero.
14:18 < nastyCreeper> edk: it is wrong to ban based on unproven accusation, don't you think?
14:19 < edk> no
14:19 < jast> in the channels I'm involved in, people tend to get banned if they are *annoying*, so the question wouldn't come up there in the first place.
14:20 < nastyCreeper> edk: then you should have stayed in middle ages, thinking like that was welcomed there
14:20 < barneygale> TIL edk is hundreds of years old
14:20 < barneygale> or can time travel?
14:21 < edk> both
14:21 < nastyCreeper> barneygale: i meant - he should have born in middle ages, not in age of logic, science and critical thinking
14:21 < edk> I was born in the year 2047
14:21 < jast> as it is, my personal approach is to ignore any clowning
14:21 < nastyCreeper> imagine if people got arrested just because they resembled some criminal
14:21 < jast> you mean, the way it already is?
14:21 < nastyCreeper> jast: they can be taken for identifying
14:21 < jast> yes, the possibility exists
14:22 < nastyCreeper> but then it is checked whether they are actually the person they resemble
14:22 < barneygale> nastyCreeper: again, you're confusing #mcdevs with a government
14:22 < nastyCreeper> barneygale: it's how civilized world work
14:22 < barneygale> or a state.
14:22 < edk> nastyCreeper: maybe you're not aware, but if two atoms have the same properties, they're literally indistinguishable: the question of whether an atom is the same as an atom that "could" be the same atom doesn't mean anything
14:22 < edk> I posit that your case is equivalent
14:22 < jast> in this country, there was a case recently where a guy got committed because he claimed that a certain bank had been doing illegal transactions
14:23 < nastyCreeper> edk: they will have different physical location, that will make them distinct
14:23 < jast> stayed locked away for 6~7 years
14:23 < jast> brave new world
14:23 < edk> nastyCreeper: what if they're attached to the same molecule?
14:23 < nastyCreeper> jast: sure, but civilized world tries to reduce number of such cases
14:23 < barneygale> ron 420 blaze it paul
14:23 < edk> the only way we have to work out the path atoms take in a reaction is by using radioisotopes and watching very fast
14:23 < nastyCreeper> however barneygale tries to turn channel into some kind of inquisition
14:23 < jast> any society is made up of different factions with different motivations
14:24 < nastyCreeper> edk: if atoms have 0 differences - it is the same atom.
14:24 < barneygale> this isn't a society
14:24 < barneygale> jesus christ
14:24 < jast> I don't think black-and-white thinking is helpful in understand the world as it actually is
14:24 < edk> nastyCreeper: that's not so
14:24 < nastyCreeper> barneygale: um, #mcdevs is a society
14:24 < ughman> this argument
14:24 < jast> I'm not talking about #mcdevs
14:24 < barneygale> many good website and communities are run by benevolent dictators, something this line of thinking wouldn't support.
14:25 < barneygale> I have no idea why you're applying this libertarian slippery-slope bullshit thinking to an irc channel
14:25 < edk> This one is run by a dictator, as it happens
14:25 < jast> because it's convenient
14:25 < barneygale> exactly
14:26 < nastyCreeper> i'm not talking about democracy. requirement of proofs before acting is just a way of civilized justice
14:26 < nastyCreeper> and slandering should be punishable, btw
14:26 < barneygale> iirc ##bash for a time was run on the basis that everyone got op as soon as they entered
14:26 < barneygale> maybe talk to the ops there about how that went ;D
14:28 < jast> there is no absolute proof, so the interpretation of evidence is up to the judiciary. which none of us are.
14:28 < jast> just saying.
14:28 < edk> yeah, i think this discussion ran its course a while ago
14:28 < barneygale> agreed
14:29 < barneygale> thanks for giving pbunny exactly what he wanted jast.
14:29 < jast> we can argue about who's right until we're blue in the face, but the argument serves no purpose at all
14:29 < edk> can we talk to pbunny about string searching instead?
14:29 < jast> why? you're not expecting to learn anything, are you? :}
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14:30 < edk> jast: i'm hoping to demonstrate a case where the CS approach is demonstrably much more efficient
14:30 -!- clonejo1 [~clonejo@clnj.de] has joined #mcdevs
14:30 < jast> to what end?
14:31 <+sadimusi> barneygale: You should start a petition for a "No annoying people" rule instead
14:31 < jast> do you seriously believe he'd admit that he was wrong? given airtight proof?
14:31 < jast> I don't
14:31 < edk> I hope more than believe
14:31 < barneygale> pbunny should work for Amy's Baking Company amirite
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14:32 < jast> I suppose the rules actually already cover that
14:32 < barneygale> Err
14:32 < barneygale> Also
14:33 < barneygale> nastyCreeper: you signed up for github? I'm impressed
14:33 < jast> for the most part, annoying people are shockingly impolite, which is technically against the rules. in practice, the rules don't seem to be serving as a law book, though (which is a good thing, of course)
14:33 < nastyCreeper> barneygale: i didn't.
14:35 < jast> barneygale: no, that's yet another completely distinct person who is not at all identical to pbunny
14:35 < edk> I wonder if the correct approach in this instance isn't just to ignore pbunny/nastyCreeper/*
14:35 < edk> blah blah trolls blah blah don't feed blah.
14:35 < jast> well, depends on the aim
14:35 < barneygale> that kinda only works if a lot of people do it
14:35 < clonejo1> some people seem to have fun feeding trolls
14:36 < jast> if you want to get rid of someone that way, it doesn't tend to work at all in open (anyone may join) communities
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14:37 < nastyCreeper> what were annoying about pbunny btw? any logs?
14:37 < jast> instead, it reduces the impact to those in the community who don't systematically ignore the thing in question, which tends to be the majority
14:38 < jast> newcomers in particular
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17:07 < workshifter> anyone know where to start in adding a new worldgen algo for a bukkit server?
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17:15 <+SirCmpwn> workshifter: in #bukkit on irc.esper.net
17:15 <+SirCmpwn> or #bukkitdev
17:15 < dav1d> oh hi
17:15 < dav1d> wb
17:15 <+SirCmpwn> ty
17:16 < workshifter> http://forums.bukkit.org/threads/basic-creating-custom-world-generators.24569/
17:16 < workshifter> found this, still correct?
17:17 < dav1d> workshifter: better join #bukkit on irc.esper.net, not a whole lot of bukkit devs are here
17:17 <+SirCmpwn> workshifter: we can't really help you with bukkit plugins here
17:17 <+SirCmpwn> I can tell you how to make a custom Craft.Net world generator if you want
17:17 < dx> good morning
17:18 < dav1d> hi
17:18 < workshifter> got it, thanks
17:18  * dx reads up
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17:19 < dx> nastyCreeper posts video about pbunny's server, md_5 asks why he's using an unpaid account, unnicked appears out of nowhere and says "that wasn't me"
17:19 < dx> MASSIVE LEGITNESS
17:19 < dx> i really don't care but it's funny
17:20 <+SirCmpwn> who's pbunny?
17:20 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: the one who got you banned
17:20 < nastyCreeper> dx: unnicked is just saying random stuff it seems
17:20 < dav1d> more or less
17:20 < dx> SirCmpwn: random guy who might be a bit insane
17:20 <+SirCmpwn> oh, that guy
17:20 < nastyCreeper> if you continue reading, you'll notice
17:21 < nastyCreeper> SirCmpwn: btw, http://nessus.lv/nessusms - what are your thoughts on that?
17:21 <+SirCmpwn> I think you need a new web designer
17:21 < nastyCreeper> i agree
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17:23 < shoghicp> SirCmpwn: oh, hi!
17:23 <+SirCmpwn> hi shoghicp, how's the python server coming
17:23 < dx> nastyCreeper: btw, what irc client are you using? just curious
17:23 <+SirCmpwn> he's using webchat
17:23 < nastyCreeper> dx: CGI:IRC atm
17:23 < nastyCreeper> problems?
17:24 < shoghicp> dropped the project, people started using the PHP one
17:24 <+SirCmpwn> :/
17:24 < dx> nastyCreeper: really? interesting
17:24 < nastyCreeper> because php is so much better than python
17:24 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: lol php :D
17:24 < nastyCreeper> dx: i am pbunny then, right?
17:24 < dx> nastyCreeper: lol
17:24 <+Ac-town> wow
17:24 < SinZ> no, you are pbunny anyway
17:24 <+Ac-town> gg php
17:24 < dx> nastyCreeper: if you say so...
17:25 < nastyCreeper> thanks to all your 'you-are-pbunny' talks, i even start believing in that myself
17:26 < shoghicp> SinZ: got the server working fluidly on a Raspberry Pi
17:26 < shoghicp> fuu
17:26 < shoghicp> [Tab]
17:26 < shoghicp> SirCmpwn: ^ that was for you
17:27 <+SirCmpwn> ...in PHP
17:27 < shoghicp> with Multiworlds, RCON, and Query :D
17:27 < shoghicp> and all Pure-PHP xD
17:28 < shoghicp> people ask if they can create plugins for PHP in Java
17:28 < SinZ> ...
17:28 < SinZ> PHP plugins are the best, but reloading them is messy
17:29 <+SirCmpwn> apparently Minecraft doesn't work if you use an IME daemon on linux
17:29 < shoghicp> SinZ: 100% true
17:29 < shoghicp> at least they can restart the server easily xD
17:29 <+Ac-town> you should feel bad for a php server
17:30 <+SirCmpwn> did you guys see my PartyCraft video, by the way?
17:30 < dav1d> yes!
17:30 < dav1d> I think someone even linked it in here
17:30 <+SirCmpwn> http://youtu.be/TVd8HKQkL30
17:30 < shoghicp> Ac-town:  people use it ;)
17:30 < dx> SirCmpwn: the client? i use IME and it works while it's disabled, gets weird results if it's enabled, but if you can imagine what you're typing it works
17:30 < shoghicp> SirCmpwn: I was going to ask for the link
17:31 <+Ac-town> people also use drupal and wordpress
17:31 <+Ac-town> and thats bad
17:31 <+SirCmpwn> dx: I use anthy and I can't give the vanilla client any key presses
17:31 <+SirCmpwn> I wrote a script to disable it before launching minecraft, though
17:31 < dav1d> now I forgot what I wanted to do
17:31 < dx> SirCmpwn: i just disable it with ctrl-space. if it's enabled it only works with the chat box, and only displays characters after you press enter
17:32 < dx> which means it's useless for any complex input
17:32 <+SirCmpwn> dx: nope, doesn't work
17:32 < dx> hm, i haven't tried in a while, let me check
17:32 < jast> Ac-town: you can write decent software in PHP, too
17:32 < jast> though why anyone would want to... beats me
17:32 < dx> ^
17:34 < dx> SirCmpwn: http://dump.dequis.org/jPOet.png
17:34 <+SirCmpwn> dx: weird, I can't type anything while the daemon is running
17:35 < dx> SirCmpwn: works differently than the last time i tried though. shows the input box, but only appends a single character every time i use it
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17:35 < dx> it must be a pain in the ass to use if you have to write like this always
17:35 <+SirCmpwn> yeah
17:35 < dx> SirCmpwn: uim or scim? scim is pretty much dead
17:36 <+SirCmpwn> scim
17:36 <+SirCmpwn> works fine, though, so I don't really care
17:36 < dx> switching to uim got a bunch of issues fixed for me
17:38 < dx> also i think i've been running this minecraft server in localhost for days and haven't noticed
17:39 <+SirCmpwn> I'd like to set up a script to grab and build the latest partycraft, then spin up a server
17:39 <+SirCmpwn> but I've been waiting until this refactoring I'm in the middle of is done, since it has a lot of breaking changes
17:39 < dx> yep, ps aux says i started it four days ago
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18:11 < SuinDraw> ps aux? ps uax
18:11 < dx> wat
18:18 < dav1d> dammit, y u segfault
18:31 < barneygale> for anyone who missed it: https://gist.github.com/barneygale/5705361 <-- petition to ban nessus (pbunny's server) devs from the chan
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19:13 < AnotherOne> barneygale is evil
19:13 < balrog> lol they blame java for the issues with official MC
19:14 < dav1d> blaming java always works
19:14 < AnotherOne> because java is bad
19:17 < AnotherOne> am i wrong?
19:17 < dav1d> first time I really use regex & replace in kdevelop, it works!
19:17 < dav1d> yes, but whatever
19:17 < Yoshi2> you are using regex for the first time and it works? I'm suprised
19:17 < AnotherOne> heh, why?
19:18 < dav1d> Yoshi2: no, the regex replace, I thought it has some strange syntax like eclipse
19:18 < Yoshi2> oh
19:18 < dav1d> simple_block_\(Side.\w+,\s.*\), o/
19:18 < Yoshi2> alright then
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20:51 < dx> 15:48 [FreeNode] -NickServ(NickServ@services.)- 1 failed login since last login.
20:51 < dx> 15:48 [FreeNode] -NickServ(NickServ@services.)- Last failed attempt from: nastyCreeper!~asd@static-71-174-73-11.bstnma.fios.verizon.net on May 28 09:26:06 2013.
20:51 < dx> lol
20:53 < Yoshi2> nope, that does not seem to be suspicious at all
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21:46 < dav1d> wohoo, a dynamic texture atlas! http://i.imgur.com/mDJSUgR.jpg
21:46 < dav1d> it workz!
21:47 < Yoshi2> dav1d: is this dynamic texture atlas more dynamic than the texture atlas from yesterday?
21:47 < dexter0> nice
21:48 < dav1d> Yoshi2: nope same atlas, but you see the diamant ore?
21:48 < dav1d> (also redstone, gold block etc.)
21:48 < dav1d> they have the correct textures now
21:48 < dav1d> yesterday, it was only the new atlas (terrain.png generated) but old, hardcoded values
21:49 < dav1d> now all "simple blocks"
21:49 < dav1d> have the correct texture
21:49 < Yoshi2> ah, I see
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--- Day changed mer. juin 05 2013
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00:27 < breezeyboy> How would I edit packet 9001
00:28 <+SirCmpwn> that's a joke, right
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00:29 < breezeyboy> No, I want to trick the client into thinking the server is a different version from what it really is
00:29 <+SirCmpwn> there is no packet 9001
00:30 <+SirCmpwn> they're 8 bit unsigned integers, IDs range from 0-255 (0x00-0xFF)
00:30 < breezeyboy> The version of the server is a string
00:30 <+SirCmpwn> are you talking about packet 0xFE, which is followed by an 0xFF?
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00:34 < breezeyboy> Think so
00:34 <+SirCmpwn> breezeyboy: in simpler terms, are you talking about the exchange that happens at the server list string, to get the MOTD and active players and such
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00:36 < breezeyboy> Yes, I want to have clients from 1.5.1 join 1.5.2 server, so I need to tell the client the serv version is 1.5.1
00:36 <+SirCmpwn> breezeyboy: well, yes, it's a string, so just send a different value. However, you should note that 1.5.2 players will not be able to join
00:37 < breezeyboy> I know, But how would I send it?
00:37 <+SirCmpwn> same way you send every other packet? Do you already have code that responds to pings?
00:38 < breezeyboy> Yes
00:38 <+SirCmpwn> so just modify your ping response accordingly
00:38 <+SirCmpwn> 1.5.1 is protocol version 60, afaik
00:39 <+SirCmpwn> Dinnerbone: I just realized that the ping changes prevent servers from supporting multiple protocol versions, since clients will refuse to join them if the protocol version is different. Maybe that do-nothing field in 0xFE could become the client's protocol version?
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01:05 < dx> SirCmpwn: support of multiple protocol versions in server list has been broken a few times in the past
01:05 < dx> SirCmpwn: it's safe to say that they do not care
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01:32 <+SirCmpwn> dx: I can dream, can't I
01:33 < dav1d> wohooo
01:33 < dav1d> only a pistons, torches and a single redstone dot are broken
01:33 <+SirCmpwn> dav1d: you ready to do it all over again? Because I'm pretty sure they're changing all that for 1.6
01:33 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: that's ok
01:34 < dav1d> form hardcoded to dynamic
01:34 < dav1d> it should be really easy now
01:34 <+SirCmpwn> cool
01:34 < dav1d> but I still have no clue why torches are broken (and piston heads)
01:34 < dx> SirCmpwn: sorry bro, no dreams allowed here
01:35 < dx> SirCmpwn: only json
01:35 <+SirCmpwn> oh god, don't even get me started on the json
01:36 < dx> heh
01:36 < dav1d> ~4k diff -.-
01:36 < dav1d> yay notifico is dead
01:36 < dx> long live notifico
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01:38 <+SirCmpwn> https://gist.github.com/Dinnerbone/5662824
01:38 <+SirCmpwn> dav1d: 
01:38 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: I've already seen it
01:39 < dav1d> oh
01:39 < dav1d> no
01:39 < dav1d> I thought it's the json chat
01:39 < dav1d> thanks
01:39 < dx> this usage of json actually makes sense
01:40 <+SirCmpwn> agreed
01:40 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: that makes it easier from what I can see
01:40 < dav1d> the texture pack format stays the same only with more metadata
01:42 < dx> dav1d: not sure about that, it says "Not yet implemented as of time of writing"
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01:43 < dav1d> dx: "//comment": "This block can go on any texture and it'll control how that is rendered out. Not yet implemented as of time of writing.",
01:43 < dav1d> dx: this would be the most retarded thing ever
01:43 < dx> dav1d: hm?
01:43 < dav1d> if
01:43 < dav1d> "clamp": false
01:43 < dav1d> if clamp acutally means the opengl texture parameter, then this is simply retarded
01:43 < dx> no idea about opengl here
01:44 <+SirCmpwn> dav1d: elaborate
01:44 < dav1d> it would mean every block gets his own texture, which is so imperformant
01:44 < dx> see, i have so little idea about opengl that i thought that was how everything worked
01:44 <+SirCmpwn> well, I think they're already doing that
01:45 < dav1d> also, you would need to render either all blocks of the same type at once or send the blockid to the shader then to choose the correct texture with a fucking long if..else
01:45 <+SirCmpwn> unless they throw all the separate textures into one at runtime
01:45 < dav1d> no they build an "atlas"
01:45 < dexter0> they could group the ons that don't require GL_CLAMP
01:45 < dav1d> which merges all the mini textures into one big
01:45 < dav1d> (just what I implemented)
01:45 < dav1d> dexter0: there are more attributes
01:45 < dexter0> ofc
01:46 < dav1d> that is a dumb idea
01:46 < dav1d> especially for minecraft
01:46 < dav1d> where you don't need that
01:46 < dav1d> but hey, mojang...
01:47 < dav1d> dexter0: also, GL_CLAMP would only work on a single texture
01:48 <+SirCmpwn> I had hoped these things would improve when bukkit got hired
01:48 < dexter0> right, that's why I said the ones that *don't* require it.
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01:49 < dav1d> dexter0: oh didn't see that
01:50 < dav1d> dexter0: also why would you require GL_CLAMP?
01:50 < dav1d> I can not think of a reason
01:50 < dexter0> neither can I
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01:50  * dav1d high fives Dinnerbro
01:51 < dav1d> and his epic fail
01:51 < dexter0> it may be just an example
01:51 < dexter0> not going to make it into the final spec
01:51 <+SirCmpwn> JSON chat is a lot worse, you know
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01:53 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: not really, if they really do it like that (worst case = what I said), then playing COD on a 8bit processor will be faster
01:54 < dav1d> 0.5 core
01:54 < dexter0> Well, they might allow you to define a custom shader for each block which would be equally as bad if abused.
01:54 <+SirCmpwn> well, who gives a shit about the vanilla client
01:54 <+SirCmpwn> JSON chat is bad for all software
01:54 < dav1d> dexter0: shader per block o.O
01:55 < dexter0> well, per block type :P
01:55 < dav1d> holy fuck
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01:56 <+SirCmpwn> I wish they'd pay more attention to this community, Minecraft would be better for it :/
01:57 < dav1d> I mean, I am no opengl specialist, but even I know that this is a really really bad idea
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02:43 < barneygale> SirCmpwn: what's the issue with json chat?
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03:03 <+SirCmpwn> barneygale: I've voiced my concerns in Dinnerbone's gist
03:03 < barneygale> I shall read
03:09 <+SirCmpwn> maybe I should make a little PoC of how it should be done
03:10 <+SirCmpwn> using the client-specified language
03:10 <+SirCmpwn> and translating on the server side
03:26 < barneygale> json seems like a reasonable approach to me
03:27 < barneygale> I largely agree with Dinnerbone's reply to your post
03:27 <+SirCmpwn> https://gist.github.com/SirCmpwn/c5b3cd93cd424f17edf4
03:28 < barneygale> this also seems pretty reasonable
03:30 < barneygale> Though the advantages you state are pretty minor
03:30 < barneygale> e.g. network load
03:30 <+SirCmpwn> >No distribution of proprietary lang files is required
03:30 <+SirCmpwn> >Cheap message encoding/decoding
03:30 <+SirCmpwn> these are the big ones
03:30 <+SirCmpwn> proprietary lang file distribution explains itself
03:31 <+SirCmpwn> as for encoding/decoding, using JSON for this will probably increase the time spent on chat by an order of magnitude or two
03:31 <+SirCmpwn> especially on the client
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04:21 < dx> SirCmpwn: they want to be able to have nested translations
04:22 < dx> SirCmpwn: such as "give item" which is "X gave item Y to Z" where Y is a translatable item name
04:22 < dx> SirCmpwn: they also think that having the server do string formatting differently for every client is too expensive. no comment on that,
04:26 <+SirCmpwn> and JSON encoding things like that is... less expensive?
04:29 < dx> no comment.
04:30 < dx> SirCmpwn: they also wanted to resolve the bugs of the § based formatting
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04:30 < dx> SirCmpwn: for which i said this is a completely overkill solution
04:30 <+SirCmpwn> I thought there was only one - when it's the last character of a string
04:30 <+SirCmpwn> which is not really that difficult to deal with
04:30 <+SirCmpwn> I thought it was already dealt with, in fact
04:30 < barneygale> are language packs released under a certain license atm?
04:31 <+SirCmpwn> barneygale: proprietary, I believe
04:31 < dx> barneygale: no, it's "we don't care about licenses"
04:31 < dx> or "grey area" like they like to say
04:31 <+SirCmpwn> in other words, assume proprietary
04:31 < barneygale> uhg
04:31 < barneygale> that's scarcely better than proprietary
04:32 < dx> it's like the situation with modding
04:32 < enchilado> Hi SirCmpwn o/
04:32 < dx> everything is technically illegal
04:32 <+SirCmpwn> possible solution: create alternate lang files based on the same keys
04:32 <+SirCmpwn> but that's pretty damn grey, and there aren't a lot of different way to say "player has joined the server"
04:32 <+SirCmpwn> enchilado: hi
04:34 < dx> >Yes, § had issues, the main ones that affected me were §r and §f behaving the same way (white resets all formatting), bold/italic/etc not cancelling each other, and the client freaking out if the formatting codes were too complex then deciding to apply everything from the start of the beginning of the line
04:34 < dx> SirCmpwn: ^
04:34 <+SirCmpwn> why not use IRC codes
04:34 <+SirCmpwn> (joke)
04:34 < dx> lol
04:34 < Exio> mIRC you mean
04:34 < dx> § is a lot like irc codes
04:34 <+SirCmpwn> yeah, yeah
04:34 < dx> but shittier
04:35 <+SirCmpwn> I'd say mIRC codes are shittier
04:35 <+SirCmpwn> mIRC formatting codes are pretty damn shitty
04:35 < dx> these cancel each other
04:35 < dx> i wish i had that with §
04:36 < dx> again
04:36 < dx> my point was, if they cared about this stuff, it wouldn't be hard to fix it
04:37 < dx> they hate §
04:37 < dx> they hate NBT too
04:37 < dx> so json is the perfect solution
04:37 <+SirCmpwn> actually, replacing NBT with JSON would make me happy
04:37 < dx> except that NBT is used in a bunch of places in the protocol
04:38 < dx> that's a lot of packets that become ten times bigger
04:38 <+SirCmpwn> yeah, I'd pull it from the protocol, too
04:38 <+SirCmpwn> not really, minified JSON is only slightly larger than NBT
04:39 < dx> it's also awful for binary data
04:39 < dx> i think the standard solution is to base64 stuff lol
04:39 <+SirCmpwn> yeah, binary data would be terrible with it
04:39 <+SirCmpwn> but there isn't much of that in the NBT that goes over the wire
04:40 <+SirCmpwn> what is NBT used for besides enchantments
04:47 < dx> SirCmpwn: any slot data actually, so, anything with items, opened windows, etc
04:48 <+SirCmpwn> yeah, but it's only actually included for enchanted items
04:49 < dx> also tile entity updates
04:50 < dx> no idea what that's used for though
04:50 <+SirCmpwn> mob spawners
04:50 < dx> just that?
04:51 <+SirCmpwn> maybe a little more, but that's the only thing I know it's used for
04:51 < dx> hmmk
04:51 < barneygale> NBT is used for level data, player data, etc
04:52 <+SirCmpwn> that doesn't go over the wire, barneygale
04:52 < dx> ye
04:52 < barneygale> I know that. JSON makes sense for enchantment data, I agree
04:52 <+SirCmpwn> as for on-disk, I like the idea of unminified JSON for player info, levels, etc
04:53 <+SirCmpwn> easier for non-savvy users to modify
04:53 < barneygale> map data? JSON isn't particularly compact for that
04:53 < dx> maybe for the metadata
04:54 < dx> not the data itself
04:54 < ShaRose> just player info and that is fine
04:54 <+SirCmpwn> maybe keep NBT for chunks
04:54 < ShaRose> since that doesn't matter for size
04:54 <+SirCmpwn> that's about the only thing that it needs to be compact for
04:54 < dx> or binary, at least
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07:32 < AlphaModder> anyone know what packet is sent when a client hits a block?
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07:53 <+SirCmpwn> AlphaModder: yup
07:53 <+SirCmpwn> AlphaModder: 0xE, informally called the "player digging" packet
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07:54 < AlphaModder> ah ok
07:54 <+SirCmpwn> AlphaModder: here's a C# implementation: https://github.com/SirCmpwn/Craft.Net/blob/master/Craft.Net/Packets.cs#L490
07:54 <+SirCmpwn> AlphaModder: and here's a C# server handling that packet: https://github.com/SirCmpwn/Craft.Net/blob/refactoring/source/Craft.Net.Server/Handlers/InteractionHandlers.cs#L19
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17:05 < zutto> fun times
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17:16 < AnotherOne|2> freenode
17:17 < AnotherOne|2> so freenode
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17:24 < Mathuin> I went looking at the latest source to pymclevel, and it has what looks like the beginnings of biome support.  Nothing that lets me set the biome at any particular point, but it will at least preserve biome data over moves..
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17:24 < Mathuin> Any idea if/when it'll get the ability to set the biome at any particular column on the map?
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17:27 <+SirCmpwn> Mathuin: now
17:27 <+SirCmpwn> oh, sorry, pymclevel
17:28 <+SirCmpwn> well, it's pretty simple, you can probably add support for it yourself
17:28 < Mathuin> I could probably rewrite pymclevel to do only what I need it to do as well.  I just wondered if _someone else_ was going to do it first. :-)
17:29 < Mathuin> I wonder if TkTech's project has reached that point.  Hmm.
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17:29 <+SirCmpwn> if you don't insist on python, you can do it with Craft.Net
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17:29 <+SirCmpwn> but you probably insist on python
17:30 < Mathuin> I indeed probably do.
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17:35 < Mathuin> Ah, PyNBT is that irritatingly seductive thing: a library that focuses on the part I really don't want to do, which lets me do the thing I've been trying to avoid for a long time.
17:35 < Mathuin> I guess I know what I'm doing this summer.
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20:16 < dav1d> dexter0: http://i.imgur.com/tBZkhys.jpg any ideas why the mipmaps seems to remove the alpha from the texture?
20:18 < Calinou> still that ugly thingy? 8D
20:18 < Yoshi2> it is looking much better now than it did before
20:19 < dexter0> nothing comes immediately to mind
20:19 < dav1d> Yoshi2: hehe, I fixed most of the textures now
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20:19 < dav1d> dexter0: I have no idea why the mimpas cancel out the alpha :(
20:20 < dexter0> granted I'm much further behind you in my construction of an MC 3d engine.  I may not be the best resource atm :(
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20:46 < Not-003> [fCraft] fragmer * r2017 7 files : Cleanup, commenting, and optimization in MapRenderer and IsoCat.
20:46 < Not-003> [fCraft] fragmer * r2018 2 files : Fixed handling of names containing periods in /Info wildcard search
20:46 < Not-003> [fCraft] fragmer * r2019 2 files : MapRenderer now defaults to having same number of threads as your logical CPU count or number of inputs, whichever is lower.
20:46 < Not-003> [fCraft] fragmer * r2020 2 files : ConfigGUI/AddWorldPopup: Hooked up BlockDB settings dropdown, and filled the "import settings" menu with existing worlds.
20:46 < Not-003> [fCraft] fragmer * r2021 2 files : ConfigGUI/AddWorldPopup: Hooked up "visibility" dropdown
20:46 < Not-003> [fCraft] fragmer * r2022 4 files : Added MapGenUtil and MapGenGuiUtil classes, to track registered IMapGenerators and IMapGeneratorGuiProviders.
20:46 < Not-003> [fCraft] fragmer * r2023 3 files : Code cleanup in AddWorldPopup, IMapGeneratorParameters, and JetBrains.Annotations
20:46 < Not-003> [fCraft] fragmer * r2024 2 files : Tweaks to FloatingIslandMapGen
20:47 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 5 commits to master [+0/-0/±10] http://git.io/XXQscg
20:48 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath dadb095 - Switched util.Stack to a linked list
20:48 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath f3374b2 - Sky lighting now works. On old chunks this works fine but on newly generated chunks it fails to generate the correct lighting
20:48 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath ecdd6c3 - Fix lighting on new chunks
20:48 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 50dbd44 - Re-enable chunk saving
20:48 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 36ae99d - Removed debug lighting code
20:48 < Not-003> [fCraft] fragmer * r2025 14 files : Renamed PlayerSearchOptions to SearchOptions, and ReturnSelfIfNoOthersMatched to ReturnSelfIfNoMatches. Less verbose!
20:50 < Not-003> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 6 commits to master [+0/-0/±21] http://git.io/BqnxQA
20:50 < Not-003> [BraLa] Dav1dde 02d446f - also move ProjTextureSlice to terrain/atlas
20:50 < Not-003> [BraLa] Dav1dde 12def54 - don't pass blocks (4byte) by reference
20:50 < Not-003> [BraLa] Dav1dde 3dc6e3b - use the new atlas (makes the world look funny!)
20:50 < Not-003> [BraLa] Dav1dde 5938c17 - make code a bit more readable
20:50 < Not-003> [BraLa] Dav1dde 1c48ba4 - "simple blocks" have correct textures now
20:50 < Not-003> [BraLa] Dav1dde 6c6e77f - textures are 90% accurate!?
20:50 < Not-003> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/FU-weQ
20:50 < Not-003> [BraLa] Dav1dde b194fb1 - fix bookshelves
20:51 < Not-003> [fCraft] fragmer * r2026 2 files : Fixed /Info revealing hidden players' online status in some cases (thanks Intertoothh and recon)
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21:13 < dav1d> spam!
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21:13 < dav1d> Not-003: hi?
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21:16 < Thinkofdeath> dav1d: I think you upset him
21:17 < dav1d> Thinkofdeath: didnt like my commits, I guess
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21:20 <+SirCmpwn> I wonder if Craft.Net still gets shown here
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21:20 <+SirCmpwn> must have been fun whenever I merged branches
21:21 < Thinkofdeath> I have seen it pop up before
21:21 < Thinkofdeath> And yes it was fun when you merged (commits, commits everywhere)
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21:44 < dav1d> clonejo1: https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/commits/master :D
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22:18 <+clonejo> dav1d: testing ongoing…
22:18 < dav1d> clonejo: you need a ~/.minecraft/bin/minecraft.jar or use --texture-pack or set it in your config
22:18 <+clonejo> ok
22:19 <+clonejo> dav1d: glwtf doesn't compile
22:20 < dav1d> clonejo: yep dmd 2.062 needed :P
22:20 < dav1d> pacman -U /var/cache/pacman/pkg/
22:20 <+clonejo> thx
22:20 < dav1d> somewhere there should be the old dmd
22:20 <+clonejo> yep
22:22 <+clonejo> dav1d: it's all blue
22:23 < dav1d> then the tessellation threads crashed, yay
22:23 <+clonejo> wait a sec…
22:23 < dav1d> in the log there should be something
22:23 < dav1d> I should make the errors not critical
22:24 < dav1d> or let brala completly crash
22:24 <+clonejo> I might have tho check the right MC version out of my ~/.minecraft/bin git repo
22:24 <+clonejo> *to
22:25 < dav1d> clonejo: just get a texture pack :)
22:25 < dav1d> (smart didnt think of having ~/.minecraft a git repo)
22:25 < dav1d> git checkout 146optifine :D
22:26 <+clonejo> :3
22:26 <+clonejo> not .minecraft/ but .minecraft/bin
22:27 <+SirCmpwn> that's awesome
22:27 <+SirCmpwn> a .minecraft git repo
22:27 <+SirCmpwn> going to do that
22:27 <+clonejo> This way I can go back to old MC versions (which are compatible to mc-erl :P) or switch mod installs
22:27 < dx> nice
22:28 < dx> is there any way to do it with uncompressed jars instead?
22:28 <+SirCmpwn> I think so
22:28 < dx> you could pretend to be able to apply mods like patches that way
22:28 <+SirCmpwn> you could probably extract them and invoke minecraft with the classpath set, with a custom launcher
22:29 < dx> oh, classpath, right
22:29 <+SirCmpwn> SuperLauncher uses classpath to install mods without changing the jars
22:30 < dx> whoa, just uncompressing minecraft.jar to a directory called minecraft.jar seemed to work
22:30 <+SirCmpwn> that's cool
22:31 < dx> old vanilla launcher, i guess 
22:31 < dx> err how did i press enter there. *i guess it uses classpath for that exact filename
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01:57 < moejoe> hi all
01:57 < moejoe> nickelpro around?
01:58 <+sadimusi> evening moejoe 
01:59 <+sadimusi> any questions someone else than nickelpro could answer?
02:02 < moejoe> hey, thx.
02:02 < moejoe> i'm checking out his spock (python minecraft client) atm
02:02 < moejoe> having some issues getting it up and running but thats prbly just me ...
02:05 <+sadimusi> never saw spock mentioned here before
02:05 <+sadimusi> it looks pretty nice
02:06 <+sadimusi> what isn't working? maybe I can help
02:08 < moejoe> very kind of you. but right now i think i have to fix some dependencies on my machine
02:09 < moejoe> for example it can't find Crypto even though I have it installed (via pip)
02:09 <+sadimusi> I wonder why he didn't include them in the setup.py
02:10 <+sadimusi> maybe you have multiple versions of python installed
02:11 <+sadimusi> and if you're on windows you probably can't install pycrypto with pip at all
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02:12 < moejoe> I use osx ... it seemed to work before but i kind of messed things up when i incidenally installed things as root ;)
02:13 <+sadimusi> :)
02:14 < moejoe> but you could help me with another question:
02:14 < moejoe> my task is to build an interface in between minecraft and an experimental ai
02:15 < moejoe> and i'm looking into custom minecraft clients right now
02:15 < moejoe> something in python (like spock) would be best as the ai is written in python
02:16 < moejoe> the most sophisticated client i found so far was mineflayer (node.js)
02:16 <+sadimusi> yeah, mineflayer is probably the best out there
02:16 <+SirCmpwn> BraLa is also pretty advanced
02:16 < moejoe> do you know of any other good (bot-) clients?
02:16 <+SirCmpwn> Craft.Net supports the entire protocol and has good support for worlds and such
02:16 <+SirCmpwn> BraLa isn't scriptable, but it's got the best graphics
02:17 <+SirCmpwn> I think he has all the textures mapped right and fancy models for things like brewing stands
02:17 <+sadimusi> I assume the graphics don't matter for a bot
02:18 <+SirCmpwn> well, just listing all the alternatives
02:18 <+sadimusi> spock looks nice but also very raw, you have to work directly with the protocol
02:18 <+SirCmpwn> I think that's every client that supports 1.5.x
02:19 < moejoe> mineflayer supports 1.5.x and has lots of abstraction
02:20 <+SirCmpwn> superjoe: do you still support mineflayer
02:20 < moejoe> i'm working fulltime on this project. so i might use spock as a foundation and port mineflayer.
02:21 < moejoe> can't really estimate the amount of work yet though as i'm new to python
02:21 <+sadimusi> it looks like there's a lot of my code in spock :)
02:21 <+SirCmpwn> Minecraft's pretty complicated, you should be comfortable in your language of choice before tackling minecraft-related projects
02:22 < moejoe> thx for the advise
02:22 < moejoe> sadimusi: what did you work on?
02:22 <+sadimusi> a proxy: https://github.com/sadimusi/mc3p
02:24 < moejoe> sweet
02:24 < moejoe> what is nickelpro using it for in spock?
02:24 <+sadimusi> just parts of the encryption and authentication
02:24 <+SirCmpwn> there tends to be a lot of code pulled into various projects from the "main" projects in each language
02:25 <+sadimusi> for example https://github.com/nickelpro/spock/blob/master/spock/utils.py#L13 vs https://github.com/sadimusi/mc3p/blob/master/mc3p/authentication.py#L85
02:25 <+SirCmpwn> especially related to crypto
02:25 <+sadimusi> yes, some of them are even linked in the wiki
02:25 <+sadimusi> so borrowing code is pretty much encouraged
02:26 <+SirCmpwn> I should update the links to Craft.Net on the wiki, looks like they 404
02:27 <+ammar2> sadimusi: hmm, apparently my terribad code (tm) actually inspired his project https://github.com/nickelpro/spock/blob/master/legal.md#pycraft
02:27 <+ammar2> knew I should have nuked it before it infected other things
02:27 < shoghicp> I'm in the middle of the MCPE update xD
02:28 < moejoe> can't find craft.net either in your wiki or anywhere else O.o
02:28 <+SirCmpwn> https://github.com/SirCmpwn/Craft.Net/tree/refactoring
02:28 <+SirCmpwn> it's C#, though, probably not relevant to you
02:28 < moejoe> thx
02:30 < moejoe> which one would you consider to be the main python client?
02:30 < moejoe> if not pycraft
02:30 <+SirCmpwn> it's not really about clients or servers, it's about projects
02:30 <+SirCmpwn> I'd say mc3p is the main python project
02:31 < moejoe> i see
02:32 <+ammar2> moejoe: I'd advise not using that old piece of junk (pyCraft), looks like the spock author improved on my stuff quite a bit and if you're gonna choose between them, spock is probably the better choice
02:32 <+ammar2> moejoe: what error were you getting with crypto?
02:33 <+SirCmpwn> oh no, SMProxy is outdated
02:33 <+SirCmpwn> let's fix that
02:36 < moejoe> ammar2: i'm trying to unsinstall and install it again via pip but i messed stuff up with the permissions
02:37 < moejoe> ammar2: OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/Library/Python/2.7/site-packages/crypto-1.1.0-py2.7.egg-info/dependency_links.txt'
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02:48 <+SirCmpwn> is Notifico down?
02:52 <+ammar2> SirCmpwn: I think so, someone else was saying that in #notifico and the bot hasn't come back since dav.1d upset it
02:53 <+SirCmpwn> well, in any case, I added binaries for SMProxy 1.5.2 to the site: http://sircmpwn.github.io/SMProxy/
02:57 < superjoe> SirCmpwn, yes
02:57 < superjoe> not under active development, but basic maintenance, yes
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11:05 < Not-001> [mc-erl] clonejo pushed 3 commits to master [+0/-0/±7] http://git.io/nZG98Q
11:05 < Not-001> [mc-erl] clonejo 4268027 - extended Makefile
11:05 < Not-001> [mc-erl] clonejo 493f794 - added jiffy (for JSON) library as dependency
11:05 < Not-001> [mc-erl] clonejo ba83186 - [REWRITE] pushing latest state, rewrite of mc_erl_client.erl, unifying entity records (no player record anymore)
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12:18 < InusualZ> Some one?
12:21 < AnotherOne|2> yep
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12:21 < AnotherOne> fuck!
12:21 < AnotherOne> how does local git know who i am on github?
12:21 < InusualZ> I need some one who know C#
12:21 <+clonejo> InusualZ: just ask your question
12:22 < InusualZ> How to structure a Packet
12:22 <+clonejo> You might use a class for every packet type.
12:32 < InusualZ> SirCmpwn 
12:32 <+md_5> is sleeping
12:32 < InusualZ> noooooo
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12:45 < AnotherOne> i can use git!
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13:44 <+sadimusi> InusualZ: I'd use literal dictionary definitions
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13:52 < Grum> <AnotherOne> how does local git know who i am on github? <-- because you've cloned your repo from a github.com url :)
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13:52 < AnotherOne> no i didn't
13:52 < Grum> then it doesnt ;)
13:52 < AnotherOne> but i think github client wrote params
13:53 < Grum> oh you using some graphical thingie?
13:53 < AnotherOne> how should i place visual studio project into repo to not make unsorted trash?
13:53 < AnotherOne> no
13:53 < AnotherOne> i like console version more
13:54 < nastyCreeper> why do you need visual blowrdio stuff?
13:55 < AnotherOne> because it is nice
13:55 < Grum> you just put the sourcefiles in the repo
13:55 < Grum> nothing that contains any sort of localized things
13:57 <+md_5> Grum whilst I'm here can I ask you a really big favour on behalf of myself, others, and the MinecraftForge team.   Packet 01 Logiin has dimensions ID as a byte. Packet 09 has it as an int. Forge and other things need it to be int in the login packet too. Can this be arranged
13:57  * md_5 puppy eyes - makes the protocol sane
14:03 < AnotherOne> so i just put source files in the repo and add them to project anywhere?
14:04 < nastyCreeper> AnotherOne: what is nice in microshaft virual shitudio ? why did you choose it?
14:05 < AnotherOne> anything else is worse
14:05 < nastyCreeper> how about netbeans + c ?
14:05 < AnotherOne> netbeans... is it written in java?
14:05 < nastyCreeper> yes
14:05 < nastyCreeper> this is not server, so it's ok
14:06 < AnotherOne> so no
14:06 < AnotherOne> eclipse is enough for me
14:06 < AnotherOne> too slow
14:06 < nastyCreeper> netbeans is faster than eclipse
14:06 < AnotherOne> can it show const value on mouseover?
14:07 < Grum> md_5: meh
14:07 < AnotherOne> why do you have vs so much?:)
14:07 < AnotherOne> hate*
14:07 < Grum> 256 dimensions not enough? :/
14:07 < nastyCreeper> AnotherOne: because m$ is about destroying open source
14:07 <+md_5> you spoke about the protocol being sane. this is one of those things that is an exactly THREE line change, that helps everyone stay sane
14:07 < nastyCreeper> also it spyes on users
14:08 <+md_5> at the moment MinecraftForge has to use its own login packet. 256 is not enough
14:08 <+md_5> and you already have an int for one of the packets
14:08 < Grum> maybe i'll change em both to a short? :D
14:08 < AnotherOne> nastyCreeper: my code is open source anyway:)
14:08 < nastyCreeper> AnotherOne: by open source i mostly mean linux community
14:08 <+md_5> that would be breaking it for the sake of breaking it. I think short is too conservative as well
14:09 < nastyCreeper> m$ already enforced UEFI that screws freedom
14:09 < nastyCreeper> some pc vendors don't make it possible to disable it
14:09 < nastyCreeper> so you are onyl able to install redhat, ubuntu and some other distros
14:09 < nastyCreeper> also m$ enforced directx support to video card vendors
14:09 <+sadimusi> nastyCreeper: stop it
14:09 < nastyCreeper> which linux can't use good
14:10 < nastyCreeper> sadimusi: sorry, i just hate m$ that much
14:10 < AnotherOne> still vs is best c++ ide
14:10 < AnotherOne> i was surprised ms had something good
14:11 < nastyCreeper> isn't it for c# only?
14:12 < Flemmard`> no VS is for C, C++, C#, VB, VB.NET ..
14:12 < nastyCreeper> what is used for code compilation there?
14:12 <+md_5> I use netbeans for C and Java. IntelliJ for python and php and nodejs
14:12 <+md_5> thats all
14:12 < Flemmard`> it uses a ms compiler
14:12 < nastyCreeper> Flemmard`: that is a problem.
14:12 < nastyCreeper> compiler may inject anything into your code
14:12 < Flemmard`> meh
14:13 < AnotherOne> netbeans you say
14:13 < AnotherOne> let's try
14:13 < nastyCreeper> netbeans.
14:13 < nastyCreeper> (y)
14:14 < AnotherOne> damnit, nastyCreeper
14:14 < AnotherOne> many people analyze asm code of apps
14:15 < AnotherOne> and no one says "omg ms is injecting shit!!!111"
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14:15 < nastyCreeper> AnotherOne: asm code is quite hard to analyze
14:16 < nastyCreeper> even open source software isn't analized frequently unless it's something really well-known
14:16 <+md_5> doesnt matter
14:16 <+md_5> your friend pbunny spent his entire life analysing every line of code in his system
14:16 <+md_5> and bios
14:16 <+md_5> and cpu microcide
14:16 < nastyCreeper> wow
14:16 <+md_5> microcode
14:17 <+md_5> or so he claims
14:17 <+md_5> which would take longer than his entire lifetime
14:17 <+md_5> yet apparently he has done it
14:17 < nastyCreeper> maybe he joked?
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14:21 < TobiX> AnotherOne: Well, MS IS "injecting" "shit" into every C++ program you compile with their compiler (It's called STL and you can even read the source code ;))
14:21 < nastyCreeper> TobiX: i'm sure m$ is creative enough to inject something that will help distribute windows
14:23 < nastyCreeper> i.e. suddenly user's skype begins to spam m$ links
14:23 < nastyCreeper> etc
14:24 < TobiX> nastyCreeper: Well, that's easy, since Skype == MS
14:24 < TobiX> But they wouldn't do that, because that would spoil their public image
14:26 < nastyCreeper> TobiX: not quite. they can always say that somebody wants to spoil their image
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14:26 < nastyCreeper> and many users still open links sent in such spam
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14:29 < TobiX> nastyCreeper: Your UEFI argument is invalid btw.
14:32 < SinZ> oh ffs, your still here
14:34 < nastyCreeper> TobiX: why?
14:35 < TobiX> Because UEFI does NOTHING to restrict your freedom
14:35 < nastyCreeper> UEFI won't allow to run grub if you don't have its key there
14:36 < nastyCreeper> you will have unsolvable problems building your own linux distro, for example
14:36 < nastyCreeper> you can disable UEFI, but some pc vendors don't allow that
14:36 < nastyCreeper> so you are forced to use windows, redhat, ubuntu and some other semi-commercial distros
14:36 < TobiX> nastyCreeper: That is bullshit, please educate yourself before telling untruths, thank you
14:36 < nastyCreeper> because to have your distro's key in UEFI, you must sign it with m$
14:36 < nastyCreeper> TobiX: hold on, i'll give you the link
14:37 < TobiX> nastyCreeper: And for the love of god, please don't confuse UEFI and SecureBoot
14:37 < TobiX> nastyCreeper: And even then your argument is invalid
14:38 < nastyCreeper> http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Linux-Discussion/How-to-install-Linux-on-UEFI-systems-where-GRUB-fail-to-install/td-p/674103 ( first result in google )
14:38 < nastyCreeper> TobiX: well SecureBoot is shipped almost as often as UEFI
14:38 < nastyCreeper> pc vendors believe that windows OS == secure pc
14:39 < nastyCreeper> and linux is for hackers
14:39 < nastyCreeper> etc
14:39 < TobiX> MS requires SecureBoot to be disable-able (is that a word?) (firmware bugs nonwithstanding)
14:39 < nastyCreeper> citation needed
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14:42 <+sadimusi> nastyCreeper: http://download.microsoft.com/download/A/D/F/ADF5BEDE-C0FB-4CC0-A3E1-B38093F50BA1/windows8-hardware-cert-requirements-system.pdf
14:42 <+sadimusi> page 122
14:45 < AnotherOne> http://cs408919.vk.me/v408919150/1080/02-3NuzyWdc.jpg
14:46 < TobiX> nastyCreeper: And you don't even need to disable Secure Boot, just boot your linux distro with a Microsoft-signed (I know, shocking!) shim...
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14:50 < nastyCreeper> TobiX: yes, that's what i'm talking about!
14:50 < nastyCreeper> m$ now decides whether linux distro is required to run or not
14:50 < nastyCreeper> can you imagine what it can lead to?
14:55 < TobiX> nastyCreeper: MS demonstrated no such thing. They signed shim and the Linux Foundation bootloader without problems - But, yes, I'll keep your horror scenario in mind and start protesting the day MS mandates that Secure Boot cannot be switched off. Until then I applaud them for their move against bootkit malware...
14:56 < nastyCreeper> "They signed shim and the Linux Foundation bootloader without problems" - what about bootloader i compile myself?
14:56 < nastyCreeper> iirc the key is provided for specific binary
14:56 < jast> how often do you need to compile your own secureboot bootloader?
14:56 < TobiX> nastyCreeper: Buy a 99$ certificate and submit it for certification. Done.
14:56 < jast> do you compile your own CPUs, too?
14:56 < nastyCreeper> jast: i am going to recompile everything from source code soon
14:56 < nastyCreeper> thanks to pbunny advice
14:57 < jast> including the compiler? with... what?
14:57 < jast> oh... a binary compiler
14:57 < jast> bam, you lose
14:57 < nastyCreeper> jast: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/
14:57 < jast> yeah, and where does your compiler for that come from?
14:57 < nastyCreeper> jast: well, it is the best i can do
14:57 < nastyCreeper> jast: pbunny will send me
14:57 < jast> if the best you can do is comparably insecure to not doing it...
14:57 < nastyCreeper> he recompiled everything like 20 times
14:57 < jast> you're creating work for yourself. which is all awesome, of course.
14:57 < jast> so, 20*0
14:58 < TobiX> nastyCreeper: I suggest reading "Reflections on trusting trust" by Ken Thompson
14:58 < nastyCreeper> so it's very low chance that backdoor kept moving from system to system via compilation
14:58 < jast> that's a lot of benefit
14:58 < jast> the chance is pretty much equivalent
14:58 < TobiX> nastyCreeper: As long as the chance is != 0, you still loose
14:58 < jast> if one compiler is manipulated, chances are all of them are
14:59 < nastyCreeper> TobiX: sorry i don't want to give 99% to m$ so it will allow me to boot my system
14:59 < nastyCreeper> how is that called.. um, robbery
14:59 < jast> after all, one manipulated compiler will infect all other compilers created by it
14:59 < jast> nastyCreeper: so, you can disable secureboot. $99 saved, nothing lost. yay!
14:59 < nastyCreeper> jast: for now
14:59 < nastyCreeper> jast: also, not on any pc
15:00 < nastyCreeper> many pc vendors enforce secureboot by default
15:00 < jast> for now anyone can access the internet without providing a digital signature
15:00 < TobiX> nastyCreeper: You are giving 99$ to VeriSign, so they can verify your identity
15:00 < jast> for now everyone isn't locked up
15:00 < jast> for now we're not killed by robot overlords
15:00 < nastyCreeper> yes
15:00 < nastyCreeper> by m$'s course is pretty obvious
15:00 < jast> so's your face
15:00 < nastyCreeper> TobiX: i have no urge to give my identity info to some US-based company, thanks
15:00 < TobiX> nastyCreeper: Any proof for enforced SecureBoot on PC?
15:00 < jast> proof by paranoia(tm)
15:03 < nastyCreeper> "While Microsoft claims the OEMs would be free to decide which keys to include and how to manage them,[17] competing OS vendors' relative lack of influence on the desktop OS market compared to Microsoft might mean that, even if signed versions of their operating systems were available, they might face difficulties getting hardware vendors to include their keys, especially if end users won't be able to manage those keys themsel
15:03 < nastyCreeper> sounds sad
15:04 < nastyCreeper> linux isn't actually popular amongst most desktop pc vendors
15:04 < nastyCreeper> i'm sure some pc vendors don't know what linux is at all
15:04 < nastyCreeper> so they will reply like "what? it's just some spyware, we won't install a key for it"
--- Log closed jeu. juin 06 15:11:19 2013
--- Log opened jeu. juin 06 15:11:26 2013
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15:14 < nastyCreeper> i'm sure it will change, seeing tendency of m$ conquering pc market and enforcing their standards on hardware
15:14 < nastyCreeper> i.e. directx
15:14 < nastyCreeper> TobiX: m$ can change the rules any time, i.e. "because linux is a hacker OS that isn't easy to get searched by police"
15:14 < nastyCreeper> or to fight terrorist
15:14 < nastyCreeper> its an US-company under the wing of NSA
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15:17 < TobiX> Now that is tinfoil-hat talk. At this point it seems unreasonable to argue with you. Thanks for making that obvious
15:18 < nastyCreeper> what else to expect?
15:18 < nastyCreeper> fight terrorism *
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15:19 < nastyCreeper> TobiX: prognosing events is used widely, i.e. in politics
15:19 < nastyCreeper> i don't see how microsoft's strategy isn't politics
15:19 -!- sadimusi_ is now known as sadimusi
15:19 < nastyCreeper> they work for US to dominate pc market
15:19 < nastyCreeper> to corner the world
15:19 < nastyCreeper> Microsoft does not seem worried about the lawsuit. "Consumers are free to purchase PCs with a non-Microsoft operating system, or without any operating system," a Microsoft spokesperson told Ars. "However, consumers benefit from the preinstallation of Windows on PCs. It provides the best user experience from the time a consumer first turns on the PC, and saves consumers the substantial effort and resources associated with havin
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15:30 < nastyCreeper> TobiX: that was a quote from http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2010/01/italian-class-action-suit-targets-unwanted-windows-installs/
15:30 < nastyCreeper> m$ sees people as bags of money that have pleasure from buying pcs and seeing icons
15:31 < dav1d> and it's tru
15:31 < dav1d> *true
15:31 < dav1d> give my father a pc without operating system, he will kill you
15:32 < nastyCreeper> because he is m$ zombie already
15:32 < nastyCreeper> simple
15:32 < nastyCreeper> he URGES ICONS
15:33 < nastyCreeper> dav1d: btw, windows is not the only operating system.
15:33 < dav1d> give my father a linux and he will kill you
15:33 < nastyCreeper> see above
15:33 < dav1d> give him a mac and I will kill you
15:35 < nastyCreeper> sadimusi forces me to stop, so i will stop
15:35 < nastyCreeper> we will talk other time
15:35 < dav1d> no please not
15:36 < AnotherOne> hey people, what is better to get int16 from byte array?
15:36 < AnotherOne> _dst = *reinterpret_cast<int16_t*>(_pf_buffer.data() + _offset);
15:36 < AnotherOne> or
15:36 < AnotherOne> memcpy(&_dst, _pf_buffer.data() + _offset, sizeof(_dst));
15:37 < nastyCreeper> first.
15:37 < dav1d> AnotherOne: neither, both don't respect endians
15:38 < dav1d> AnotherOne: but if you don't care about endianes the first
15:46 < AnotherOne> endianness is in next line of code:)
15:46 < AnotherOne> why first?
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15:49 < dav1d> AnotherOne: you can fix it in one go, there are function for that
15:49 < dav1d> oh c++, I correct mysekf, I think there are functions like that
15:49 < dav1d> *myself
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16:08 < AnotherOne> dav1d: yes i can, but why? im ok with 2 lines
16:09 < AnotherOne> i used conversions from sdl_net
16:09 < dav1d> AnotherOne: -1 line, less errors, easier to understand
16:09 < dav1d> AnotherOne: why are you using sdl?
16:09 < AnotherOne> there is no 64-bit conversion
16:09 < AnotherOne> sdl is nice
16:09 < dav1d> AnotherOne: the api is a pain and it's really fat if you only use it for networking
16:10 < AnotherOne> i will use boost::asio later
16:10 < AnotherOne> now it doesn't work for me
16:11 < AnotherOne> http://pastebin.com/G09DstRW
16:11 < AnotherOne> is it hard to understand?
16:12 <+sadimusi> this reminds me why I don't ever use C++
16:13 < dav1d> AnotherOne: why don't you cast?
16:13 < dav1d> memcpy is fat, a cast is free
16:13 < dav1d> but to your question if it is understandable, it isn't
16:14 < dav1d> all this magic _.* stuff
16:14 < AnotherOne> not magic for me:)
16:14 < dav1d> you asked me if it is hard to understand, not yourself :)
16:15 < AnotherOne> _var is argument, _pf_var is private field
16:15 < Yoshi2> it is only a matter of time until you don't understand it yourself :p
16:15 < AnotherOne> why?
16:16 < nastyCreeper> omg, flipping endianness is as simple as several assignments
16:16 < nastyCreeper> why a LIBRARY is needed for taht?
16:16 < dav1d> aha
16:16 < AnotherOne> because this is boost
16:16 < nastyCreeper> https://dpaste.de/98yOR/raw/ - just use that
16:17 < AnotherOne> omfg
16:17 < Yoshi2> if at some point in the future you put the code away for a few months, it will be difficult to remember why you did something in some way in your code
16:17 < nastyCreeper> and you can just get _size with sizeof()
16:17 < dav1d> AnotherOne: please don't do it like that, boost::* is good
16:18 < nastyCreeper> no. it's a heavy third-party library that isn't needed
16:18 < AnotherOne> somebody here told me that using loops for endian conversion is bad
16:18 < nastyCreeper> why?
16:18 < nastyCreeper> well you can unroll it
16:18 < dav1d> AnotherOne: it is
16:18 < nastyCreeper> however you will need to make a macro/function for every size possible
16:18 < AnotherOne> because it can be done without loops
16:18 < nastyCreeper> 2, 4, 8, maybe 16
16:18 < nastyCreeper> sure
16:18 < dav1d> AnotherOne: also don't listen to him, boost is fine
16:18 < nastyCreeper> but then it will be several funcs
16:19 < dav1d> AnotherOne: it does what you need and is well tested and is optimized already
16:19 < AnotherOne> https://github.com/TRocket/gnuCraft/blob/master/src/protocol/conversion.hpp
16:19 < dav1d> also from what I heared boost::asio is pretty good
16:19 < AnotherOne> not so heavy
16:19 < nastyCreeper> dav1d: you need to use a library only when you need to do something hard or something big
16:20 < Yoshi2> or when you don't want to reimplement something yourself
16:20 < AnotherOne> ^
16:20 < nastyCreeper> wrong
16:20 < dav1d> AnotherOne: is this your code?
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16:20 < AnotherOne> no
16:20 < nastyCreeper> reimplementing 3 lines of code is ok
16:20 < nastyCreeper> or just copy paste from somewhere
16:21 < dav1d> +violate any license
16:21 < dav1d> because "we don't give a fuck"
16:23 < AnotherOne> http://pastebin.com/UmpGSLuS
16:23 < AnotherOne> what is better?
16:24 <+sadimusi> first
16:25 < AnotherOne> why?
16:26 <+sadimusi> it's way more readable
16:26 <+sadimusi> but it'll probably perform worse
16:29 < dav1d> AnotherOne: boost
16:29 < dav1d> AnotherOne: it is readable, everyone knows what it does, it is tested, it is optimized and it will most likely be inlined
16:29 < dav1d> AnotherOne: since you depend anyways on boost (boost::asio) everyting is fine
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16:31 < dav1d> also there is the "htons" family
16:33 < AnotherOne> i dont like it
16:34 < AnotherOne> it does the same but needs winsock include on windows
16:37 < nastyCreeper> this is problem of windows, not htons
16:38 < dav1d> why is this a problem? o.O
16:38 < dav1d> if it is, use boost
16:39 < nastyCreeper> there is a problem of m$ existing in our planet
16:40 < AnotherOne> dav1d: so i do
16:48 < AnotherOne> anyway, ms is useful too
16:49 < AnotherOne> linux is nice, but windows is better
16:49 -!- mode/#mcdevs [+o sadimusi] by ChanServ
16:49 -!- mode/#mcdevs [+b *!*@static-71-174-73-11.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] by sadimusi
16:49 -!- nastyCreeper was kicked from #mcdevs by sadimusi [nastyCreeper]
16:49 -!- mode/#mcdevs [-o sadimusi] by sadimusi
16:50 < AnotherOne> oh
16:50 <+sadimusi> his ban was removed by accident
16:50 < dav1d> sadimusi: wrong
16:50 < AnotherOne> so i dont need to write answer...
16:50 < dav1d> sadimusi: he was never banned
16:51 <+sadimusi> dav1d: I banned him for a day, then TkTech banned him again a few hours after the ban was lifted
16:51 < dav1d> sadimusi: oh daily, then I missed that
16:51 < dav1d> I just  don't remember a day I didn't see this fucker
16:52 < TkTech> When I cleaned some of the ancient bans I accidentally removed his.
16:53 < dav1d> what about unnicked?
16:53 < dav1d> = pbunny
16:56 < jast> any incarnation of pbunny is easy to recognize due to his repeating the same old stuff again and again. I haven't seen it from unnicked yet.
16:57 -!- act4 [~alex@host86-135-89-50.range86-135.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: act4]
16:58 < dav1d> jast: joined the first time shortly after pbunny was banned, (shortly after nastyCreepeer joined). then joined right after sadimusi said nastyCreeper has to stop or ban
16:59 < jast> but hasn't been as annoying as the other clown nicks yet, right?
16:59 < dav1d> not so far
16:59 < jast> that, to me, would be a sufficient argument to not be completely convinced that it's actually pbunny :)
17:00 < Yoshi2> there were at least two unnickeds in this channel, one of the two was talking about how paranoia does not exist
17:00 < jast> also, unnicked hasn't joined yet, even though nastyCreeper was banned just a few minutes ago...
17:01 < jast> okay, that doesn't actually mean much
17:01 < jast> back to work o/~
17:03 < dav1d> I should make znc log stuff
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17:04 < dx> 11:50 < TkTech> When I cleaned some of the ancient bans I accidentally removed his.
17:04 < dx> TkTech: lol.
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17:18 < AnotherOne> http://www.cplusplus.com/reference/iterator/inserter/
17:18 < AnotherOne> what if i need opposite thing?
17:18 < AnotherOne> that overwrites instead of inserting
17:19 < AnotherOne> and inserts if nothing to overwrite
17:25 <+SirCmpwn> AnotherOne: /join #c++
17:25 <+SirCmpwn> AnotherOne: correction, /join ##c++
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17:29 < dx> should i be bothered by the fact that i don't know wtf that code he linked means? (the first code block)
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17:30 < dx> should i bother curing my ignorance regarding c++?
17:30 < TRocket> yes.
17:30 <+sadimusi> no
17:30 < dav1d> no, definitly not
17:30 <+SirCmpwn> learn C, it's a lot better
17:30 < dx> i already know C
17:30 <+SirCmpwn> then you're good to go
17:30 < dx> heh
17:30 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: how can C be better than C++ if C is basically a subset of C++
17:31 < dx> dav1d: a subset with less design flaws :P
17:31 <+SirCmpwn> dav1d: I have no response to that because it is incorrect
17:31 < dav1d> dx: you're not forced to use c++ in .cpp files :P
17:31 <+SirCmpwn> and I think you know that, but it's early
17:31 < dav1d> dx: g++ accepts C
17:31 < dx> dav1d: oh of course
17:31 < dav1d> so you can take what you like from C++ and use C
17:31 <+SirCmpwn> I don't just target x86 and friends
17:32 <+SirCmpwn> g++ is not always my compiler
17:32 < dav1d> what?
17:32 < dav1d> clang++ also does that, g++ cross compiles to literally everything
17:32 <+SirCmpwn> not z80
17:32 < dx> hah
17:32 < dx> fun
17:32 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: is there a C++ compiler for z80?
17:32 <+SirCmpwn> I hope not
17:33 <+SirCmpwn> C++ produces pretty bloated machine code
17:33 <+SirCmpwn> that's not acceptable when you're working with 6 MHz and 32K of memory
17:33 < dav1d> then your point is invalid, that c++ compiler would also accept C
17:34 <+SirCmpwn> no, I don't think there is one
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17:34 < dx> i don't think any language except C or ASM is acceptable for z80 and microcontrollers in that spec range
17:34 <+SirCmpwn> and regardless, my point doesn't even change when using g++
17:34 <+SirCmpwn> I don't like any of the extensions C++ puts on C, even if the compiler accepts them
17:34 < dx> oh wait people used BASIC lol
17:34 <+SirCmpwn> it's not the compiler I have a problem with, it's C++
17:35 < jast> quoting: how can C be better than C++ if C is basically a subset of C++
17:35 < jast> perfection isn't when there's nothing more to be added. it's when there's nothing more to take away.
17:35 < dx> i like that.
17:35 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: not everything of C++ is bad, especially the newer versions, generalizing that is wrong (I am not defending C++ here)
17:35 <+Fador> dx: z80 isn't really a microcontroller, it's CPU ;)
17:35 < dav1d> jast: I would know so many thinks I'd add to C
17:35 < jast> I didn't come up with it myself, sadly :)
17:35 <+SirCmpwn> dav1d: not everything about PHP is bad, but I still don't use it
17:35 <+Fador> I have a stack of z80's here
17:36 < dx> Fador: i didn't say it was, i just said the specs are comparable to microcontrollers
17:36 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: well the subset of PHP which is not bad, is too small to write a hello world, I guess
17:36 < Shoot> anyone looking into Scrolls?
17:36 < dav1d> (I originally only said C is part of C++, so how can C++ be worse)
17:37 <+SirCmpwn> PHP works fine for writing HTML
17:37 < dav1d> but whatever
17:37 <+SirCmpwn> not dynamic HTML, but, you know, static content
17:37 < dav1d> language discussions are pointless
17:37 <+SirCmpwn> i.e. PHP without any PHP
17:37 < dx> heh right, html is a subset of php
17:37 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: then it's not PHP
17:37 <+SirCmpwn> dav1d: and C without the ++ is not C++
17:37 <+SirCmpwn> dav1d: thank you for arguing my point for me
17:37 < dav1d> php <? > <- between those tags, I don't remember how to write them
17:38 < jast> I guess SirCmpwn wins this one :)
17:38 < dav1d> wat?
17:38 < dx> >win
17:38 < dx> the only winning move is not to play™
17:38 < dav1d> (templates alone are a too great thing)
17:38 < jast> depends on the goal of the game
17:39 < jast> templates alone are a horrible, horrible thing
17:39 <+SirCmpwn> doesn't make the language as a whole better than C, dav1d
17:39 < dav1d> jast: if you like to duplicate your code N times, sure
17:39 <+SirCmpwn> C can do anything you want it to, and doesn't have all the bullshit C++ comes with
17:39 < jast> there's no need to use a monstrosity like templates to reduce code duplication
17:39 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: but definitly not worse, thanks for arguing for my point
17:39 < jast> there are plenty of alternatives that can't crash your compiler
17:40 <+SirCmpwn> dav1d: you're being silly. The other problems with the language are what makes it inferior,
17:40 <+SirCmpwn> *-,
17:40 < dav1d> jast: write me vector operations for 2,3,4...N dimensions for byte,short,int,float,double
17:40 < dx> i like lisp
17:40 < dav1d> jast: without templates
17:40 < jast> ever heard of generics?
17:40 <+SirCmpwn> http://i.imgur.com/gU0vO.jpg
17:40 < jast> templates with the insanity
17:40 < jast> *without
17:40 < dav1d> jast: here we go, lol
17:40 < dx> they don't need templates to add abstraction layers in lisp
17:41 < TRocket> learn asm and embed it in c or c++
17:41 < jast> lisp is usually dynamically typed... so that's an unfair comparison
17:41  * dav1d hopes he isnt' serious
17:41 < dx> SirCmpwn: wtf am i reading
17:41 <+SirCmpwn> dunno, I stopped reading it
17:42 < dx> jast: i'm not really comparing
17:42 < jast> a comparison was kind of implied
17:43 < dx> jast: only pointing out the fact that functions can create any abstraction you want
17:43 < dx> (often with a severe lack of syntactic sugar in C, but shhhh)
17:44 < jast> well, static typing does kind of make it an issue with code duplication, unless you have *some* way to make it polymorphic
17:44 < jast> (type-polymorphic)
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17:45 < jast> err. parametric polymorphism is what I was trying to refer to.
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17:46 < dx> jast: hmm yep, that sounds like a feature i'd like to have
17:47 < dav1d> Yeah! let's do it like Java
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17:55 < jast> java does many things wrong, but at least it doesn't have a C++-style template system
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17:59 < AnotherOne> you say "C++-style template system" as if it is something bad
18:00 < Flemmard`> it's bad if you dont know how to use it i'd say
18:03 < AnotherOne> everithing is bad that way
18:04 < AnotherOne> everything*
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19:06 < AnotherOne> how to push non-master branch to github?
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19:16 < AnotherOne> fuck
19:16 < AnotherOne> git sucks!
19:16 < AnotherOne> conflicts omg
19:16 < Flemmard`> takes a while to handle that yea
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19:28 < jast> you get conflicts with anything that merges
19:29 <+sadimusi> they're not really a problem if you have a good tool to resolve them
19:29 <+sadimusi> i.e. not vimdiff
19:36 < AnotherOne> give me a hint, sadimusi
19:36 <+sadimusi> what os are you using?
19:36 < AnotherOne> windows
19:39 <+sadimusi> I don't know of any tools for windows, but I'm sure there are some
19:39 <+sadimusi> what happens when you git mergetool?
19:40 <+sadimusi> stackoverflow suggests p4merge: http://www.perforce.com/product/components/perforce-visual-merge-and-diff-tools
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19:41 <+sadimusi> you can configure it like this http://stackoverflow.com/questions/426026/git-on-windows-how-do-you-set-up-a-mergetool#answer-436040
19:46 < dav1d> git mergetool?
19:48 <+sadimusi> dav1d: yes. which one are you using?
19:48 < dav1d> sadimusi: the good one^^
19:48 < dav1d> can't remember that name...
19:49 < dav1d> can I make git show me the mergetool?
19:49 <+sadimusi> git config merge.tool might work
19:49 < dav1d> nope
19:49 < dav1d> prints nothin
19:49 < dav1d> *nothing
19:50 <+sadimusi> even with the --global flag?
19:50 < dav1d> sadimusi: meld
19:51 < dav1d> haha my history
19:51 <+sadimusi> I saw that mentioned somewhere before
19:51 < dav1d> haha great
19:51 < dav1d> http://sprunge.us/QFMg
19:52 < dav1d> history | grep git | grep merge
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20:24 < AnotherOne> omg i hate git
20:25 < AnotherOne> it deleted my vs project file
20:25 < eddyb> no, you delete your vs project file
20:25 < eddyb> by asking git to delete it
20:25 < eddyb> *deleted
20:27 < Flemmard`> at first you'll insult git a lot
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20:33 < AnotherOne> can anyone explain me what "origin" is?
20:33 < jast> a short name for the remote repository
20:33 < jast> i.e. where you cloned from
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21:28 < AnotherOne> how to push non-master branch to github?
21:29 < dav1d> AnotherOne: git push origin branch:branch
21:30 <+sadimusi> you can leave away the :branch
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21:34 < dav1d> yes you can, but whenever I do that, I get an evil stare from Prf_Jakob!
21:37 <+Prf_Jakob> dav1d: hahaha :-p
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22:10 < AnotherOne> did anyone here use python in windows?
22:10 < dav1d> AnotherOne: yes
22:11 < AnotherOne> help me please
22:12 < AnotherOne> i'm cd'ing to directory with script, trying python27.lnk filename and gettingerror of no such file
22:12 < AnotherOne> python27.lnk is link in directory with PATH set
22:12 < dav1d> what is python27.lnk?
22:12 <+SirCmpwn> I think you should perhaps be asking ##python
22:12 < dav1d> o.O
22:12 < dav1d> C:\Python 2.7\python foo
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22:12 < dav1d> or simply
22:12 < dav1d> python foo
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22:13 < AnotherOne> i want linux-like call
22:13 < AnotherOne> python foo doesn't work
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22:13 < dav1d> AnotherOne: then add your python installation to $PATH
22:13 < dav1d> eh %PATH%
22:14 < AnotherOne> is putting link in folder added there not ok?
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22:14 <+SpaceManiac> one thing you can do is use a .bat instead of a .lnk
22:14 < dav1d> AnotherOne: I don't think these windows link work like symbolic linux links
22:16 <+SpaceManiac> python.bat :: "@C:\path\to\python.exe" %*
22:26 < dav1d> is the render-distance sent in any packet?
22:27 < barneygale> CC iirc
22:27 < dav1d> barneygale: the client sends that
22:28 < dav1d> (I should have mentioned that I want to get it from the server)
22:28 < barneygale> oh I see! No, not iirc
22:28 < barneygale> You can work it out from what map data is sent, ofc.
22:28 < dav1d> I need it before that :)
22:28 < dav1d> wanna initialize a queue with the right size from the beginning
22:28 < barneygale> Unfortunately not. I don't think 0x32 is a thing anymore
22:33 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 2 commits to master [+1/-0/±10] http://git.io/EZFWNw
22:33 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 6fc295d - Added data value support for block placing
22:33 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 7c44fba - Made creepers spawnable + entity fixes
22:41 < AnotherOne> damn
22:41 < AnotherOne> i installed beautifulsoup, but python cant see it
22:42 < AnotherOne> mb i need to update something?
22:44 < dav1d> no
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22:45 < AnotherOne> do i need to specify path to lib?
22:45 < dav1d> no
22:45 < dav1d> just install it correctly^^
22:45 < AnotherOne> how is it?
22:46 < AnotherOne> python setup.py install
22:46 < AnotherOne> is what i did
22:48 < dav1d> why don't you use the installer? (btw. the setup.py install was correct)
22:48 < dav1d> maybe conflicting installations
22:48 < dav1d> check your lib/site-packages folder
22:49 < AnotherOne> it is there
22:49 < AnotherOne> should i move it one directory up?
22:50 < dav1d> no
22:50 < dav1d> then importing should work
22:50 < AnotherOne> fuck
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22:51 < AnotherOne> there is no beautifulsoup in modules list
22:52 < dav1d> add site-packages to PYTHONPATH
22:52 < dav1d> (it should be by default, except you messed up the installation)
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23:01 < AnotherOne> it worked
23:01 < AnotherOne> but now i have encoding problems
23:03 <+SirCmpwn> what is your broader goal, AnotherOne
23:03 < AnotherOne> parse wiki and make formal descriptions of packets for code generator
23:04 <+SirCmpwn> I see
23:04 < AnotherOne> http://pastebin.com/5dzDrEQ0
23:04 <+SirCmpwn> parsing mediawiki sucks
23:04 <+SirCmpwn> good luck
23:05 < AnotherOne> table format is nice there
23:05 < AnotherOne> it is not going to be hard
23:05 < AnotherOne> of course if i will make this fucking python work
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23:10 < dav1d> AnotherOne: give it the correct encoding, it did guess there pretty badly
23:10 < omkelderman> can i ask something here about a page of wiki.vg?
23:11 < dav1d> yes
23:11 < dav1d> you can
23:12 < omkelderman> oke, its about http://wiki.vg/Server_List_Ping, it says there are two formats that can be returned , 1.3 and earlier and later
23:13 < omkelderman> as far as i understand, what is explained there is the latest version
23:13 < omkelderman> but whats the old one?
23:14 < AnotherOne> dav1d: how do i do it?
23:14 < AnotherOne> # -*- coding: utf-8 -*-
23:14 < AnotherOne> ?
23:14 < dav1d> AnotherOne: no
23:14 < dav1d> AnotherOne: html.decode('encoding-here')
23:14 < dav1d> but I am surprised wiki.vg doesn't set an encoding
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23:15 < omkelderman> (i know its very unlikely someone has a server with 1.3 or earlier running, but i want to be as complete as possible :P)
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23:18 < dav1d> omkelderman: this page is relativly new, if you can find the old one, there is a histoy button on the upper right
23:18 < AnotherOne> i totally dont understand why does python exist
23:18 < dav1d> omkelderman: if you're lucky you can go back in history of the protocol paage
23:19 < AnotherOne> it does not work at all
23:19 < AnotherOne> only gives problems
23:20 < dav1d> AnotherOne: hach
23:20 < dav1d> you have no idea how things work and blame python for it
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23:22 < AnotherOne> http://pastebin.com/BvGNuRnf
23:22 < AnotherOne> where am i wrong?
23:23 < dav1d> AnotherOne: why do you decode the soup
23:23 < dav1d> you have to decode the "bytes" which you get from urllib
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23:23 < dav1d> can't thhe beautifulsoup load directly from an url?
23:23 < dav1d> it should handle encoding
23:24 < omkelderman> dav1d, i found it on http://wiki.vg/wiki/index.php?title=Protocol&oldid=2610#Server_List_Ping_.280xFE.29, thanx for the suggestion to look at the protocol-page-history
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23:24 < dav1d> omkelderman: great :)
23:24 < dav1d> but it looks like it's the same
23:26 < omkelderman> uuh, no... the new one sends more info and splits at a null-char, the old one has less info and splits at '§'
23:26 < dav1d> AnotherOne: strange can't find a method to load directly from an url, lxml can do that
23:26 < AnotherOne> wiki.vg is in utf-8
23:26 < AnotherOne> soup = BeautifulSoup(page.read(), from_encoding="utf-8")
23:27 < dav1d> did you check the html header and the source?
23:27 < AnotherOne> i checked browser encoding for that page
23:27 < AnotherOne> it shows utf-8
23:27 < AnotherOne> lxml you say...
23:28 < dav1d> AnotherOne: http://sprunge.us/MRfM
23:28 < dav1d> works!
23:28 < AnotherOne> i'm close to write this parser in pure c++
23:29 < dav1d> AnotherOne: I have no idea what your problem is
23:29 < dav1d> works perfectly here
23:29 < omkelderman> who has write-access to the wiki.vg-pages? i think it isnt a bad idea to add the old-server-list-ping-response to the existing page
23:30 < dav1d> AnotherOne: http://sprunge.us/KNMc
23:30 < dav1d> omkelderman: you can!
23:30 < AnotherOne> i will try your lxml
23:30 < dav1d> omkelderman: you have to register an account though
23:30 < omkelderman> aah, oke, of course :P
23:30 < omkelderman> why didnt i thought of that :P
23:32 < AnotherOne> oh
23:32 < AnotherOne> fuck it
23:32 < AnotherOne> im going to sleep
23:32 < AnotherOne> bye
23:32 < dav1d> cya!
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--- Day changed ven. juin 07 2013
00:02 < omkelderman> dav1d, before i safe something silly (my english can sometimes be incorrect), can you take a look at http://puu.sh/39Ua8.png and say if its ok?
00:06 < dav1d> omkelderman: The first 3 bytes are the same as described above. These 3 bytes are followed by a UCS-2 string, which contains 3 fileds delimited by §:
00:06 < dav1d> omkelderman: The entire packet looks similiar to this:
00:07 < dav1d> ok gtg, thanks for the changes!
00:07 < dav1d> cya
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00:49 < Not-001> [PartyCraft] SirCmpwn pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/2Gjxvw
00:49 < Not-001> [PartyCraft] joshuaferrara 6e76b17 - Fixed command line error when command null
00:49 < Not-001> [PartyCraft] SirCmpwn 53d33bf - Merge pull request #14 from joshuaferrara/master Fixed command line error when command is null
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03:46 < Not-001> [PartyCraft] SirCmpwn pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/KLoGEg
03:46 < Not-001> [PartyCraft] joshuaferrara 7773fa1 - Fixed error in /time command Fixed error that dropped client when no second argument was provided for /time [set/add]
03:46 < Not-001> [PartyCraft] SirCmpwn 87dfbea - Merge pull request #15 from joshuaferrara/master Fixed error in /time [set/add] command
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07:57 < AnotherOne> morning
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10:23 < dav1d> Jo
10:25 < Calinou> na
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13:11 < unnicked911> any links on lighting processing compatible with client's?
13:11 < dav1d> Hi pb!
13:12 < dav1d> welcome back
13:20 < unnicked911> pb?
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13:49 < ffdr> Hi
13:50 < shoghicp> hi
13:50 < ffdr> can someone help me to make a magic sha1 hash in ruby?
13:50 < jast> sounds magical
13:51 < ffdr> jast: http://i.imgur.com/sg017lt.gif
13:51 < ffdr> I am talking about http://wiki.vg/Protocol_Encryption
13:52 < ffdr> that magic sha1 hash
13:52 < ffdr> twos complement crap
13:52 < jast> oh, nasty
13:58 < ffdr> ._.
14:00 < ffdr> nearly there
14:00 < ffdr> now just need to trim the zeros
14:00 < ffdr> with a regex...
14:01 < ffdr> so 0001234 => 1234
14:05 < dav1d> regex wtf?
14:06 < jast> your code is almost certainly wrong
14:07 < ffdr> it works for Notch jeb_ but not simon xD
14:08 < jast> try this: i=hash.to_i(16); if i>=(2**80) then i=(2**160)-i end; hash=i.to_s(16)
14:08 < ffdr> where hash is number? string with bytes?
14:09 < jast> correction: i=hash.to_i(16); if i>=(2**80) then i=-(2**160)+i end; hash=i.to_s(16)
14:09 < jast> hash is the hexdigest
14:10 < jast> okay, wrong result, never mind
14:10 < ffdr> correction only jeb_ was correct with my code*
14:10 < ffdr> actually it acts same with yours, only jeb_ is correct
14:10 < jast> i=hash.to_i(16); if i>=(2**159) then i=-(2**160)+i end; hash=i.to_s(16)
14:11 < ffdr> LOL
14:11 < ffdr> works
14:11 < jast> stupid mistake
14:12 < ffdr> 3 lines compared to 644 of c# and 30 of js \o/
14:12 < jast> unfair comparison since js doesn't have SHA1 built in :)
14:12 < jast> and I'm sure you could do it much shorter in C#, too, if it has a bignum type
14:13 < ffdr> ffdr: what about ~ operator in ruby
14:13 < jast> ~ on bignums returns the same as -
14:13 < ffdr> ah
14:13 < ffdr>     sprintf("%x",( ~Integer('0x'+sha.hexdigest)+1)).sub("..f","-").sub(/^0+/,"")
14:13 < jast> that's because bignums have no fixed width, so you wouldn't know where to cut off
14:14 < ffdr> it acted as your first code
14:15 < jast> the mistake with yours was that 'f' isn't the only leading digit for which you have to use the complement... anything from 8 upwards needs the sign flipped
14:16 < ffdr> ah
14:16 < jast> basically anything with the highest bit set
14:17 < ffdr> ok lets try this with minecraft.net auth
14:17 < jast> FWIW this ain't gonna be the fastest implementation. there's a lot of unnecessary conversions along the way.
14:29 < ffdr> meh something still wrong when doing minecraft.net auth, returns no
14:32 < ffdr> sha1.update [server_id, shared_secret, public_key]
14:34 < ffdr> uh maybe it is related to how public key is encoded
14:34 < ffdr> client doesnt have any problem using it anyway
14:38 < ffdr> whats the point of iso-8859-1 encoding of server id?
14:38 <+md_5> uh
14:38 <+md_5> dont think it does
14:38  * md_5 checks code
14:39 <+md_5> oh
14:39 <+md_5> it does
14:39  * md_5 shrug
14:39 <+md_5> no clue
14:39 < ffdr>                         request.getSessionId().getBytes( "ISO_8859_1" ), sharedKey.getEncoded(), EncryptionUtil.keys.getPublic().getEncoded()
14:39 <+md_5> lol
14:39 <+md_5> you are reading my code
14:39 < ffdr> haha
14:40 <+md_5> because I think I was the first person to reimplement this after they released encryption
14:40 <+md_5> and MInecraft did it
14:40 <+md_5> so I did too
14:40 < ffdr> now trying to implement it in ruby, I am so tired of doing java stuff
14:40 <+md_5> session id is a random hex string
14:40 <+md_5> so not sure what encoding it is gonna do
14:41 < ffdr> but in a form of aaabbbcccddd?
14:41 < ffdr> or plain bytes
14:41 < ffdr> random bytes...
14:41 <+md_5> well
14:41 <+md_5> its a SHA-1 of the bytes making up the hex string
14:42 < ffdr> and then that twos complement shit
14:44 < ffdr>         String hash = Long.toString(random.nextLong(), 16);
14:44 <+md_5> yup
14:44 <+md_5> that is just a string
14:44 < ffdr> it gives like an md5 hash or binary stuff?
14:44 <+md_5> consisting only of hex numbers
14:44 <+md_5> "7809adfe91adf"   would be an example
14:45 < ffdr> hmm I was generating a string in a form of md5 hash
14:46 < ffdr> ok it is a string so i dont think that was the problem
14:52 < ffdr> or maybe it is because i dont urlencode the hash D:
14:56 < ffdr> maybe my twos complement is wrong, but it works for jeb simon and notch
14:56 < jast> a hex string doesn't change if you urlencode it
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14:59 < AnotherOne> should i make wiki parser to json format?
14:59 < AnotherOne> or own one?
14:59 < AnotherOne> or we already have one?
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15:08 < ffdr> weird
15:09 < ffdr> I joined few random servers with wireshark on and looking at joinserver.jsp s
15:09 < ffdr> for all servers it joined using same hash
15:09 < ffdr> I don't get it D:
15:09 < ffdr> ah nvm
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15:13 < ffdr> is public key in "DER" format fine?
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15:13 < ffdr> client can use it fine but I guess it adds diffrent form to hash
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15:15 < ffdr> hmm java getEncoded() is also der ;/
15:18 < ffdr> is there a way to make minecraft login with minecraft.net when running without launcher?
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15:38 < SinZ> AnotherOne: https://github.com/ylt/Resonate/blob/master/src/Resonate/dev/Generate_Packets.py Not sure if that works anymore
15:40 <+sadimusi> ffdr: did you figure out how to do the hash?
15:40 < ffdr> sadimusi: oh 
15:41 < ffdr> I just setup minecraft client & my server to print byte arrays on sha1#update
15:41 < AnotherOne> SinZ: looks too easy
15:42 < AnotherOne> i'll try my own monstrous parsing
15:42 <+sadimusi> ffdr: and are you getting the same thing?
15:42 < AnotherOne> and evolude it into regex
15:42 < ffdr> sadimusi: pretty much ;/
15:43 < ffdr> java prints the server id added to sha1 as nothing, but secret token and public key are same
15:43 <+sadimusi> then you're probably not sending the server id correctly
15:43 < ffdr> so it must be wrong twos complement
15:44 < ffdr> sadimusi: I mean
15:44 < ffdr> it just prints "Updating sha1 with: "
15:44 < ffdr> and then two updates for public key and secret token with correct hex
15:45 < ffdr> on the client side
15:45 <+sadimusi> it probably initializes with the server id
15:45 < ffdr> http://pastebin.com/unPXSSRQ
15:46 <+sadimusi> if you're getting correct values for jeb_, Notch and simon (that's me) it's most likely not your two's-complement implementation
15:47 <+sadimusi> so I'm still going with incorrect oxFC
15:47 <+sadimusi> *0
15:47 < ffdr> sadimusi: i have no idea, i tried everything
15:51 < ffdr> that java debug breaks with servverId string
15:51 < ffdr> printing nothing
15:52 <+sadimusi> maybe I can quickly modify mc3p's client encryption debugger to also work for servers
15:52 < ffdr> ^_^
15:52 <+sadimusi> It'll look something like this http://cl.ly/POYU
15:53 < ffdr> thats a nice debug
15:53 <+sadimusi> what os are you using?
15:54 < ffdr> my old ruby client debug was even more fancy xD
15:54 < ffdr> arch linux
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16:09 < ffdr> sadimusi: ping me when you make it
16:09 <+sadimusi> I will
16:15 < ffdr> sadimusi: O_O
16:15 <+sadimusi> ffdr: ?
16:15 < ffdr> minecraft is updating sha1 with empty byte array at first
16:15 < dav1d> no
16:16 <+sadimusi> I'm pretty sure it isn't
16:16 < ffdr> it looks weird but this is what my debug hooks prints
16:16 < ffdr> in minecraft client
16:16 < ffdr> no idea why
16:16 < dav1d> https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/brala/network/session.d#L92
16:16 < dav1d> works!
16:17 < ffdr> this is what am i doing but hash is diffrent from java one
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16:17 <+sadimusi> I'm still saying you're not sending the server id correctly
16:18 < ffdr> hmmm
16:18 < dav1d> then you're doing it wrong
16:19 < ffdr> sadimusi: what do you think about that => http://pastebin.com/XnHmhDf4
16:19 <+sadimusi> that looks ok
16:19 < ffdr> why the first one is empty
16:19 < ffdr> it was supposed to be server id
16:20 <+sadimusi> [4:17pm] sadimusi: I'm still saying you're not sending the server id correctly
16:20 < ffdr> sadimusi: its minecraft source code
16:21 <+sadimusi> so you're not trying it with your server?
16:21 < ffdr> yeah i am trying
16:22 <+sadimusi> try it with the vanilla server and look if the array is still empty
16:22 <+sadimusi> (spoiler: it isn't)
16:23 < ffdr> ahh you say that i send it wrong in 0xFD
16:23 < ffdr> sorry I didn't understand you
16:24 < ffdr> I think it know where the problem may be *facepalm*
16:24 < ffdr> I know*
16:26 < ffdr> yay
16:26 < ffdr> fixed
16:28 < ffdr> Ported my java project to ruby...java 1632 lines, ruby 231 \o/
16:36 < ffdr> oh btw it was wrong minecraft strings impl.
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16:56 < ffdr> after EncKeyResponse the kick is unencrypted?
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16:59 < ffdr> ah ok it is
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17:16 < TkTech> sadimusi: Can I suggest the textwrap module for those hex dumps?
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17:21 <+sadimusi> TkTech: what would be the benefit of using that?
17:21 < TkTech> sadimusi: Easier reading when the rows are aligned to 80 chars, for example.
17:22 <+sadimusi> I already wrap them manually, currently the default is just the window's width
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17:23 <+sadimusi> and I think this module won't let me easily write on two lines at once
17:23 <+sadimusi> oh, the raw bytes are not wrapped
17:23 <+sadimusi> I'll add that
17:24 < TkTech> sadimusi: "Two lines at once", I don't entirely understand that.
17:24 < TkTech> It's specifically for blocks of text, including multiline text.
17:25 < AnotherOne> http://pastebin.com/ysX2DCJt
17:25 < AnotherOne> hell yeah!
17:25 <+sadimusi> every received byte gets written immediately to the "Receiving raw bytes" and the "Decrypted bytes" line
17:26 < TkTech> sadimusi: For example you would use it with initial_indent='\tchallege_token: ', subsequen_indent='\t\t\t'
17:26 < TkTech> (Don't use tabs, but you get the idea.
17:26 <+sadimusi> I might use it for everything else than the LoggingStream
17:27 < TkTech> Oh, sorry, I misunderstood
17:27 < TkTech> Using curses?
17:27 <+sadimusi> yes
17:27 < AnotherOne> i need your advice, people. should i format field names to fieldName before writing to JSON?
17:28 <+sadimusi> why would you have to do that?
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17:29 < AnotherOne> what exactly?
17:29 <+sadimusi> rename the fields
17:30 < AnotherOne> to generate code
17:30 <+sadimusi> I thought you're generating json
17:30 < AnotherOne> and then code from json
17:30 < AnotherOne> i think someone will need packets in JSON
17:30 < AnotherOne> so then i dont need to rename fields
17:31 <+sadimusi> if anything I would reformat it when generating the code
17:31 <+sadimusi> this way everybody can use his own naming scheme
17:32 < AnotherOne> how can i get wiki page source from my application?
17:32 < AnotherOne> it is much easier to parse than html
17:32 <+SirCmpwn> same way you get it through your browser
17:32 <+SirCmpwn> http://wiki.vg/wiki/index.php?title=Protocol&action=edit
17:33 <+sadimusi> I'd use raw instead of edit
17:33 < AnotherOne> raw?
17:33 <+sadimusi> http://wiki.vg/wiki/index.php?title=Protocol&action=raw
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17:33 <+SirCmpwn> that looks much better
17:34 < AnotherOne> good
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18:12 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2027 2 files : Improved MapGeneratorGui documentation, and disabled auto-resizing while in designer mode.
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18:34 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 2 commits to master [+3/-0/±10] http://git.io/e77Yvg
18:34 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 8735c00 - Added a new logger which supports colours (windows only)
18:34 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath bf163cc - Added linux support for console colours + a fallback for other OSs
18:36 < AnotherOne> wiki is wrong
18:36 < AnotherOne> it breaks my parser
18:36 < AnotherOne> so i will fix wiki
18:41 <+clonejo> AnotherOne: wrong about what?
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18:43 < AnotherOne> 0x17
18:43 < AnotherOne> small formatting issues
18:43 < AnotherOne> i fixed it
18:43 < AnotherOne> you may look
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19:02 < AnotherOne> moar fixes
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19:53 < ffdr> what is default pkcs version used by java?
19:53 < ffdr> for rsa
19:54 <+sadimusi> ffdr: pkcs#1
19:54 < ffdr> hmm
19:55 < ffdr> my server works on mri ruby but on java ruby client can't decode the public key
19:55 <+SirCmpwn> 1.5
19:55 <+SirCmpwn> http://wiki.vg/Protocol_Encryption
19:55 <+SirCmpwn> there's lots of details on this page
19:55 < ffdr> error is somehow related to pkcs
19:55 < ffdr> SirCmpwn: yeah, readed that
19:55 <+SirCmpwn> link to your code
19:56 < ffdr> I can create a quick testcase for this but it looks more like an jruby problem
19:56 < ffdr> I guess it uses other pkcs version as default
19:56 < ffdr> where at mri ruby it works fine
19:57 <+SirCmpwn> I feel your pain, Craft.Net has a Mono-only dependency because Mono has broken crypto support
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19:59 < ffdr> is there some easy way to detect pkcs version from byte array key
19:59 < ffdr> in java?
19:59 < ffdr> I want to add some debugs for this in vanilla client
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20:01 <+SirCmpwn> md_5 is our java guy
20:03 < shoghicp> Who is the C# guy?
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20:03 < ffdr> SirCmpwn is D:
20:04 < shoghicp> I've a guy on #mcpedevs asking questions about C# a lot, InusualZ
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20:05 <+SirCmpwn> shoghicp: who?
20:05 < ffdr> oh it looks like there are some classes for every pkcs version
20:05 < ffdr> maybe I can force v1.5
20:05 < shoghicp> SirCmpwn: InusualZ
20:05 <+SirCmpwn> oh, I thought your prior statement was addressing this guy
20:06 <+SirCmpwn> I vaguely remember not liking him. Should I help him?
20:06 < ffdr> uhh only pkcs 5,7 and 12 has its own class
20:06 < shoghicp> He has no idea about how packet works
20:07 < shoghicp> packets*
20:07 < shoghicp> nor binary R/W
20:07 <+SirCmpwn> I'm not particularly good with UDP
20:07 <+SirCmpwn> never done anything with it
20:07 <+SirCmpwn> I did manage to show up in my phone's server list once
20:07 < shoghicp> don't worry, the UDP protocol in MCPE is a TCP-alike implementation
20:08 < shoghicp> I've to handle all the packet reliability myself
20:08 < shoghicp> and splitting packets :s
20:08 < ffdr> SirCmpwn: according to wikipedia PKCS #7 is version 1.5
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20:08 < shoghicp> He did an IRC client
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20:15 < shoghicp> SirCmpwn: thanks ;)
20:15 <+SirCmpwn> I should add PE support to Craft.Net
20:15 <+SirCmpwn> after I add classic support in a week or so
20:16 <+SirCmpwn> huh, I installed the latest PE on my phone and multiplayer seems to have been replaced by realms
20:16 <+SirCmpwn> shoghicp: what is the meaning of this
20:17 < shoghicp> oh, no, go to "Play"
20:17 < shoghicp> local servers now appear there
20:17 <+SirCmpwn> interesting
20:17 <+SirCmpwn> find anything that lets you run PE on a desktop yet?
20:18 < ffdr> ok it looks like pkcs7 is not what i want
20:18 < shoghicp> SirCmpwn: bluestacks, someone had success with it
20:19 <+SirCmpwn> and if I use linux
20:21 < shoghicp> hmm
20:22 < shoghicp> it is only available for Win and Mac
20:22 <+SirCmpwn> trying out androvm
20:22 < ffdr> SirCmpwn: uh are the KEYS in the der format even padded
20:22 <+SirCmpwn> I'd prefer a solution built on virtualbox anyway, afaik bluestacks is an adware-driven piece of shit
20:23 < ffdr> I was thinking only data was padded
20:23 <+SirCmpwn> ffdr: which keys'
20:23 < shoghicp> SirCmpwn: keep in mind that MCPE is ARM
20:23 < ffdr> SirCmpwn: public key send to client
20:23 <+SirCmpwn> shoghicp: asdf
20:27 < ffdr> correct public key is 272 bytes, faulty is 280 bytes
20:28 < ffdr> ah nevermind that*
20:29 < ffdr> I was looking at base64 ones not binary where one implementation was adding RSA after BEGIN
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20:30 < ffdr> hmm correct public key in der is 162 bytes and faulty(jruby impl) is actually 140
20:30 < ffdr> weird
20:31 < ffdr> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4739662/problem-transmiting-a-rsa-public-key-javame-bouncy-castle
20:31 < ffdr> heh, looks like same problem. 162 vs 140
20:33 < ffdr> rsa pkcs #1 is 140 bytes and x509 is 162
20:40 < ffdr> it is BEGIN RSA PUBLIC KEY vs BEGIN PUBLIC KEY where the second one is correct x509 ._.
20:50 < barneygale> ffdr: not sure if this is of use to you https://gist.github.com/barneygale/bc303b2515fdaa7c2fb2
20:50 < barneygale> python snippet that uses M2Crypto
20:56 < dav1d> clonejo: BraLa scripting with https://github.com/maximecb/Higgs ? :D
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21:07 < ffdr> barneygale: it is a bug in java ruby impl. where it exports keys to diffrent format than normal ruby
21:31 < AnotherOne> http://pastebin.com/dbbAdj4L
21:31 < AnotherOne> here is JSON for 0x01
21:31 < AnotherOne> is it ok?
21:31 <+SirCmpwn> AnotherOne: strip out <code>
21:32 < AnotherOne> ok
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21:35 < AnotherOne> should i add number of packets field?
21:37 <+SirCmpwn> any JSON library worth its salt can do that
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21:37 < AnotherOne> mojang thought the same about packet lengths
21:38 <+SirCmpwn> wat
21:38 < AnotherOne> nothing;)
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21:59 < AnotherOne> https://github.com/tehme/mcprotocol/blob/master/packets_json_v01.txt
21:59 < AnotherOne> here it is
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22:00 < AnotherOne> tell me if you find any wrong data, please
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22:09 <+SirCmpwn> https://github.com/tehme/mcprotocol/commit/ece182f5a9da91efa60731c758f8553656a9579c
22:09 <+SirCmpwn> charming.
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22:10 <+ammar2> 216 line .gitignore
22:10 <+ammar2> woah
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22:12 < jast> copied from somewhere, I'm sure
22:12 < AnotherOne> it's all github:)
22:12 < jast> one of them "ALL the dotfiles" repos or something
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22:16 <+SirCmpwn> why does this repo even need a gitignore
22:16 < AnotherOne> because of visual studio project inside
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22:17 <+SirCmpwn> ah, I just noticed that
22:17 <+SirCmpwn> so your goal is more than just a JSON representation of the wiki
22:18 < jast> yeah, including guidance files, resharper, teamcity, dotcover, ncrunch, installshield, ... it's all in your working tree, of course
22:18 <+SirCmpwn> and to think I was hopeful about this venture
22:18 < jast> along with eclipse project files,
22:18 < jast> oh well
22:19 < AnotherOne> jast: github made this file, not me:)
22:19 <+SirCmpwn> the smiley face at the end isn't an excuse for not reading man pages
22:19 < AnotherOne> it is betted for me not to touch it while im new to git
22:19 < AnotherOne> better*
22:20 < AnotherOne> SirCmpwn: don't you like smiley faces?
22:21 < jast> I don't... I hate them :)
22:22 < AnotherOne> heh
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23:03 < AnotherOne> finally done
23:03 < AnotherOne> time to learn regex
23:10 < Yoshi2> I wish you lots of fun with regex
23:11 < AnotherOne> was that sarcasm?
23:14 < AnotherOne> i have 2 questions about json packets: is it better to store packet id as "0x.." string or int? should i add link to corresponding packet in wiki?
23:14 < dav1d> makes no difference
23:15 < AnotherOne> why?
23:15 < dav1d> both values have to parsed, int is probably better though because json parser understand that
23:26 < AnotherOne> https://github.com/tehme/mcprotocol/blob/master/src/wiki2json/main.cpp#L46
23:26 < AnotherOne> does anyone know replacement for this?
23:27 < dav1d> wow you did really write this in c++
23:27 < AnotherOne> yes i did
23:27 < dav1d> 500 lines phew
23:27 < AnotherOne> and without regex
23:28 < AnotherOne> man, fuck python
23:28 < AnotherOne> really
23:28 < AnotherOne> i dont want to fight with own tool to make it work
23:29 < dav1d> if you think blaming the language instead of yourself, that's definitly the correct way to do it
23:30 < AnotherOne> blaming myself? for what?
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23:31 < AnotherOne> for laze to fix retarded python-only encoding problems?
23:32 < dav1d> AnotherOne: are you sure that python does that wrong?
23:32 < AnotherOne> yes
23:32 < dav1d> holy shit
23:33 < dav1d> you have a lot to learn
23:33 < dav1d> python does it actually correctly, c++ doesn't, but it doesn't check it either
23:33 < AnotherOne> so i have no problems
23:34 < dav1d> oh dear
23:34 < AnotherOne> i googled about python encodings
23:34 < AnotherOne> and it is a problem
23:34 < dav1d> "python encodings"
23:34 < dav1d> as if python defined its own encodings
23:34 < AnotherOne> people use huge hacks to solve it
23:35 < dav1d> http://docs.python.org/2/howto/unicode.html
23:35 < dav1d> read this, maybe you will understand a bit more than
23:35 < dav1d> there is no hack at all
23:35 < dav1d> show me one of your "hacks"
23:36 < dav1d> (why am I even trying to proof you wrong, you obviously have no idea what you're talking about)
23:36 < AnotherOne> ok, i will read this
23:37 < dav1d> do whatever you like
23:37 < AnotherOne> are you angry?
23:37 < dav1d> what you deal with in C++ are pure bytes not unicode
23:38 < dav1d> python expects the correct encoding, that's the difference, C++ doesn't care in which datatypes your shit is
23:38 < dav1d> which gets you into trouble if you actually have to deal with something else than ascii
23:38 < AnotherOne> pure bytes are enough to parse raw wiki
23:38 < dav1d> because it is ascii
23:38 < AnotherOne> yes
23:39 < dav1d> btw. I honestly don't understand what's so hard about typing: lxml.html.parse('http://wiki.vg'), returns you even unicode
23:39 < dav1d> +xpath
23:39 < AnotherOne> lxml didn't install
23:40 < dav1d> why don't you use the fucking installer
23:40 < AnotherOne> what is installer?
23:40 < dav1d> probably because your python is installed completly wrong
23:41 < dav1d> http://www.lfd.uci.edu/~gohlke/pythonlibs/#lxml
23:42 <+AndrewPH> story of his life
23:42 < dav1d> y u no have select on files windows :(
23:43 < AnotherOne> blah blah no python in registry
23:43 < AnotherOne> looks like it is really installed wrong
23:43  * dav1d wonders how you can install python on windows incorrectly
23:43 < dav1d> AnotherOne: did you use the installer
23:44 < dav1d> *?
23:44 < AnotherOne> yep
23:44 < dav1d> oh wow, then either your system is uhm strange, or the installer is broken, but both explanations are strange^^
23:44 < AnotherOne> python is strange
23:44 < dav1d> then don't use it?
23:45 < dav1d> also *you think it is strange
23:45 < AnotherOne> this is what happens when you try to install linux software to windows
23:45 < dav1d> how is this linux software
23:45 < AnotherOne> well, linux-oriented
23:45 < AnotherOne> there are absolutely no problems with pythin
23:46 < AnotherOne> python*
23:46 < AnotherOne> i liked it
23:47 < dav1d> I agree getting used to doing unicode correctly is kinda hard at the beginning, python3 makes it a bit easier, in python 2.6 you can do "from __future__ import unicode_literals" to get this behaviour
23:48 < AnotherOne> mb just use python 3?
23:48 < dav1d> AnotherOne: "mb"?
23:48 < AnotherOne> may be
23:49 < AnotherOne> is that phrase incorrect?
23:50 < dav1d> didn't understand mb
23:50 < dav1d> well no idea how much libraries support Python3, should be quite a lot by now
23:50 < dav1d> (python3 is awesome!)
23:50 < AnotherOne> do you use it?
23:52 < dav1d> 50%
23:52 < dav1d> flask was only recently ported, so, I've had to use python2
23:53 < AnotherOne> flask?
23:54 < dav1d> http://flask.pocoo.org
23:55 < AnotherOne> web python
23:55 < AnotherOne> but why?
23:56 < dav1d> why not?
23:57 < AnotherOne> because there are php, ruby
23:58 < dav1d> I bet you never even looked at ruby
23:58 < dav1d> and php, lol
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23:58 < AnotherOne> right
23:58 < dav1d> you never looked at python if you really consider php over python
23:59 < AnotherOne> i looked at php
23:59 < AnotherOne> and used it
23:59 < AnotherOne> it is designed for web programming
23:59 < dav1d> yes but you can't compare it, because you know nothing else
23:59 < dav1d> php is an abused template-engine
--- Day changed sam. juin 08 2013
00:01 < AnotherOne> show me your python site
00:03 < dav1d> it's a private repo
00:03 < dav1d> though what I am currently messing with: https://github.com/Dav1dde/vp
00:05 < AnotherOne> wat is this?
00:05 <+AndrewPH> AnotherOne: youtube.com google.com
00:05 <+AndrewPH> both mostly in python
00:05 < AnotherOne> how do you know?
00:05 < dav1d> AnotherOne: can't you just open a link and read the description?
00:05 <+AndrewPH> http://www.gooli.org/blog/youtube-runs-on-python/
00:06 < AnotherOne> there is no description
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00:06 < dav1d> AnotherOne: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2006-December/070323.html
00:06 < dav1d> AnotherOne: then you should get yourself goggles
00:06 < dav1d> *googgles
00:06 < dav1d> ^(google glass joke)
00:06 < AnotherOne> heh
00:07 < AnotherOne> google glass is a dangerous shit
00:07 <+AndrewPH> not really
00:08 <+AndrewPH> phones are more discreet
00:08 < AnotherOne> i've read about helicopter pilot who used some device for one eye
00:08 -!- eddyb [~eddy@unaffiliated/eddyb] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
00:08 < AnotherOne> in few years his eyes started to move separately
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00:08 < mappum> that sounds like an urban legend
00:09 <+AndrewPH> AnotherOne: AR tech has varied wildly in the past
00:09 <+AndrewPH> google has the resources to ensure that that won't happen in most cases
00:09 < dav1d> I made Eclipse StackOverflow :D
00:10 < AnotherOne> mappum: there was a video
00:10 < mappum> ah, ok
00:10 < AnotherOne> i'll give link if i find it
00:11 <+AndrewPH> i read about a guy who had a glass-like headset
00:11 <+AndrewPH> he mocked the glass for being low-tech in comparison, but his required surgery to put it on
00:11 <+AndrewPH> so, uh
00:11 <+clonejo> dav1d: I would rather go for Lua.
00:11 < dav1d> clonejo: I wasn't serious :)
00:11 <+clonejo> sure :P
00:11 < dav1d> clonejo: but I think the project is pretty cool
00:12 < mappum> AndrewPH: Steve Mann?
00:12 <+clonejo> dav1d: do they support ecmascript completely?
00:12 <+AndrewPH> mappum: possibly
00:12 <+AndrewPH> also AnotherOne, some reasons that PHP is blegh: http://me.veekun.com/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/
00:13 < dav1d> clonejo: *she
00:13 <+clonejo> nice
00:13 < dav1d> clonejo: I think nearly complete v5 of it
00:13 <+clonejo> cool
00:14 <+AndrewPH> afk chilling with gf for a bit
00:15 < mappum> lol, google glass in the 80s: http://spectrum.ieee.org/img/eye02-620px-1360938048957.jpg
00:16 < AnotherOne> http://a1.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/59/5efae069ca1b4286b5ba8166a6aa4ede/l.jpg
00:17 < mappum> AnotherOne: lol
00:18 < AnotherOne> You pull out the hammer, but to your dismay, it has the claw part on both sides. Still serviceable though, I mean, you can hit nails with the middle of the head holding it sideways.
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00:18 < AnotherOne> hahahahahahahaha
00:19 < mappum> someone actually made that hammer in response to that
00:19 < mappum> http://www.codinghorror.com/.a/6a0120a85dcdae970b017742d249d5970d-800wi
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00:22 < AnotherOne> fuck
00:22 < AnotherOne> that article made me cry:D
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00:25 < AnotherOne> hey shoghicp
00:25 < AnotherOne> http://me.veekun.com/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/
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00:54 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2028 5 files : Implemented loading/saving embedded generation parameters from/to map files. Fixed MapFCMv3 losing capitalization of embedded metadata on-load.
01:23 < AnotherOne> i ahve a regex "\\|(.*?)\\n" and string "| Packet ID\n| jajaja\n"
01:23 < AnotherOne> i expect 3 matches: full string, " Packet ID" and " jajaja"
01:23 < AnotherOne> but i get 2
01:24 < AnotherOne> sedond is " Packet ID\n| jajaja"
01:24 < AnotherOne> what is wrong?
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01:33 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2029 2 files : Implemented parameter loading/saving in VanillaMapGen.
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01:44 <+SirCmpwn> AnotherOne: you shouldn't parse complicated things with regex
01:44 <+SirCmpwn> AnotherOne: you should also learn to choose the appropriate channels to present your questions in
01:46 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2030 6 files : Added two new IMapGenerator members: CreateParameters(string presetName):IMapGeneratorParameters and Presets:string[]. Not implemented in any MapGens yet.
01:47 < AnotherOne> it is not so complicated i think
01:48 <+SirCmpwn> AnotherOne: you really shouldn't use it for more than sed and grep, imo
01:48 < AnotherOne> should i continue parsing with string::find?
01:49 <+SirCmpwn> well, in this case, I suppose a regex is probably fine
01:49 <+SirCmpwn> since you don't really need to worry about memory usage or speed
01:49 < AnotherOne> so can you give me a hint?
01:49 <+SirCmpwn> yeah, go to #regex
01:49 <+SirCmpwn> <SirCmpwn> AnotherOne: you should also learn to choose the appropriate channels to present your questions in
01:50 < AnotherOne> well,let's try
01:50 < mappum> AnotherOne: I think you just need more groupings
01:51 < AnotherOne> can you show me an example?
01:54 < mappum> i think you can just add a (.*) to the end if i'm understanding it correctly
01:58 < AnotherOne> it works
01:59 < AnotherOne> so i can't use one my old regex to parse multiple entries in a string?
01:59 < AnotherOne> or do i need to loop parsing?
02:00 < AnotherOne> -one
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02:26 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2031 2 files : Implemented preset handling in AddWorldPopup and FlatMapGen.
02:32 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2032 2 files : Implemented rudimentary preset handling in VanillaMapGen.
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03:30 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2033 5 files : Improved "Load Preset" and "Import Settings" menus. Fixed broken "Ocean" preset in FlatMapGen.
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04:13 <+md_5> >"Working on some funstuff today. Mapmakers may like it, and @SethBling will have to revisit one of his previous projects. :D"
04:13 <+md_5> Priorities guys!
04:32 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2034 2 files : Implemented rudimentary preset handling to FloatingIslandMapGen
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07:44 < AnotherOne> md_5: why not?:)
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07:58 < SinZ> md_5: yet another update where it enhances youtubers, and neglets everyone else
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08:43 < AnotherOne> can anyone help me with regex? #regex is silent
08:43 < AnotherOne> i want to parse text, formatted as | text1\n| text2\n and so on. it is unknown how many lines there are. i tried "(:?\\|(.*?)\\n)*", but it gives me only last line in text. using boost::regex. what am i doing wrong?
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09:56 < Grum> AnotherOne: you dont explain what you want to get from that string
09:56 < Grum> because splitting on '|' would just 'do it'
09:57 < Grum> you do not use a regex unless you *need* it :P
10:07 < AnotherOne> splitting you say...
10:07 < AnotherOne> let's try
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10:48 < AnotherOne> splitting has its own problems
10:50 < Yoshi2> what problems are you thinking of?
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11:12 < AnotherOne> splitting with string delimiter
11:12 < AnotherOne> solved already
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12:51 < AnotherOne> http://www.regex101.com/r/eN1aS5
12:51 < AnotherOne> hell yeah
12:51 < AnotherOne> looks like i'm starting to get regex
12:51 < dav1d> AnotherOne: why?
12:51 < AnotherOne> because it works
12:51 < dav1d> this can easily parsed without a regex
12:51 < dav1d> also this regex will break
12:52 < dav1d> .+ is anyways a bad idea, without an end character
12:52 < dav1d> [.^=]+
12:52 < dav1d> or even
12:52 < dav1d> [.^\(]+
12:55 < dav1d> that website can't understand this regex lol
12:56 < AnotherOne> maybe you are wrong?:)
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12:57 < AnotherOne> \) will follow .+ anyway
12:57 < AnotherOne> so i dont think it needs to be fixed
12:57 < dav1d> AnotherOne: \w[^(]+\(\s*[^)]+\s*\)
12:57 < AnotherOne> well, .+?
12:57 < dav1d> but this could still be better
12:57 < dav1d> of course it needs, except you're parsing only these small chunks at a time
12:58 < barneygale> AnotherOne: good practice with regex is to match the minimum thing you're expecting
12:58 < barneygale> as it's mostly greedy
12:58 < dav1d> what would happen if you regex the whole wiki site at once (as you should do it)
12:58 < AnotherOne> i will not
12:58 < dav1d> then why da fuq are you using a regex?
12:58 < dav1d> split by whitespace, strip out the () done
12:58 < AnotherOne> well
12:59 < AnotherOne> === Chat Message (0x03) ===
12:59 < dav1d> faster to develop, faster in runtime, less errors
12:59 < AnotherOne> how shuold i extract "Chat Message" and "0x03"?
12:59 < dav1d> easy lol
12:59 < dav1d> I can do it in a one-liner
12:59 < AnotherOne> enlighten me
12:59 < dav1d> In [5]: '=== Chat Message (0x03) ==='.strip('=').strip().rsplit(None, 1)
12:59 < dav1d> Out[5]: ['Chat Message', '(0x03)']
12:59 < dav1d> here you go
13:00 < dav1d> removing parens is really trivial
13:00 < dav1d> but I'd use a second line for that
13:00 < dav1d> (still possible in one, with two replaces, but that's ugly)
13:00 < dav1d> _[1][1:-1]
13:00 < barneygale> I'd do it as "=== (.+?) \(0x([0-9A-Z]{2})\) ==="
13:00 < dav1d> In [6]: _[1][1:-1]
13:01 < dav1d> Out[6]: '0x03'
13:01 < dav1d> barneygale: I'd replace " " with \s+
13:01 < barneygale> why?
13:01 < dav1d> barneygale: it comes from html
13:01 < dav1d> and whitespaces don't matter
13:01 <+md_5> why are we doing this :|
13:02 < dav1d> *with regular expressions
13:02 < dav1d> right, no idea
13:02 < AnotherOne> md_5: why not?
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14:16 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±6] http://git.io/R68yEQ
14:16 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 38bf8a3 - Fix some deadlock issues on slower machines
14:16 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 9832784 - Snapshot (13w23b) Update (Chat broken currently)
14:18 < Thinkofdeath> With the new system how do you just do a normal message?
14:25 < AnotherOne> i need your advice, people
14:26 < AnotherOne> types in wiki. some are capitalized, others are not. should i convert all types to lower case in my parser or fix wiki?
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14:28 < dav1d> fix it in your parser, then in the wiki
14:40 < AnotherOne> is fixing wiki to simplify parser ok?
14:41 < AnotherOne> if fixes are unseen to reader
14:42 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/RP3AdA
14:42 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath eea7c10 - Fixed chat to work with the new system (looks like old colour codes still work)
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15:52 < SinZ> AnotherOne: just set it to lower in your parser
15:52 < AnotherOne> SinZ: i already did it
15:52 < AnotherOne> i meant fixing tables a little
15:53 < SinZ> can only fix something that is broken, and they aint broken
15:53 < AnotherOne> http://www.wiki.vg/wiki/index.php?title=Protocol&diff=3898&oldid=3896
15:54 < AnotherOne> that is what i did
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15:58 < TRocket> hi
16:00 < SinZ> hi
16:00 < TRocket> OpenGL is bleh
16:01 < SinZ> then stick to CLI
16:04 < TRocket> yeah, CLI would be easy (We plan on implemeting this) but, the point of our project is for increased perfomance
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16:05 < dav1d> "OpenGL is bleh" → you have to learn a lot
16:08 < TRocket> yup
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17:30 < Thinkofdeath> Anyone know why the player's walking speed is extremely fast on the snapshot? (On my server)
17:34 <+SirCmpwn> which snapshot?
17:35 <+SirCmpwn> 13w23a?
17:35 < Thinkofdeath> yep
17:35 < Thinkofdeath> well b
17:35 <+SirCmpwn> walking speed did change to a float
17:35 <+SirCmpwn> also, tell me everything you know about the latest protocol version
17:36 < Thinkofdeath> Yeah I changed that but I never sent it anyway
17:36 < Thinkofdeath> Also the changes https://github.com/NetherrackDev/netherrack/commit/9832784c1a523afb2d3e527105e9ee71272dad16
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17:37 <+SirCmpwn> Thinkofdeath: you don't just have to change it to a float, you change it to a float and divide by 250 from the old value
17:37 <+SirCmpwn> try sending it, maybe it won't work right without
17:38 < Thinkofdeath> Tried sending it but only the flying speed part works
17:38 < Thinkofdeath> walking speed doesn't change anything
17:38 <+SirCmpwn> what value did you send?
17:38 < Thinkofdeath> 0.05 for flying and 0.1 for walking
17:39 <+SirCmpwn> interesting
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18:20 < Thinkofdeath> SirCmpwn: Changing it does change the fov just not the speed. Not sure whats going on
18:20 <+SirCmpwn> I don't have a functional 13w23b server at the moment, so you're going to have to figure it out yourself
18:21 < Thinkofdeath> damn ok then
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18:30 < bartbart333> Hey
18:30 < bartbart333> Can anybody help me
18:30 < bartbart333> I'm trying to make a minecraft client
18:32 < mbaxter> ok?
18:32 < mbaxter> What's your question
18:33 < bartbart333> How can i connect to a minecraft server
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18:35 < bartbart333> I read the protocol but i don't know how to send the packets
18:35 < bartbart333> btw i'm using java
18:36 < Thinkofdeath> http://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/networking/sockets/ might help
18:36 < bartbart333> I already have a socket and a data in and outputstream
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18:39 < bartbart333> but what do i need to do now
18:40 <+SirCmpwn> learn more about computer science
18:40 -!- clop0 is now known as mh0
18:41 < bartbart333> I do know a lot about computers
18:41 <+SirCmpwn> apparently not enough
18:41 <+SirCmpwn> minecraft is complicated and badly designed
18:41 <+SirCmpwn> if you can't answer your question yourself, you aren't prepared to work with Minecraft
18:42 < barneygale> bartbart333: MC is a bad way to learn network programming. You're diving in at the deep end.
18:43 < bartbart333> I already made a chat program in java so i know how to work with networking but i don't know how to work with a minecraft server
18:44 < barneygale> Why not? What problem are you having?
18:44 < bartbart333> When you connect to the server you need to do writeByte(0x02);
18:44 < bartbart333> I think
18:44 <+SirCmpwn> if you're doing that, you probably won't succeed
18:44 < barneygale> bartbart333: yeah that's right
18:45 <+SirCmpwn> there are more than a hundred packets, you should be making some kind of system to write them for you
18:45 < barneygale> though later on you'll need to write a more high-level definition of packets
18:45 <+SirCmpwn> instead of manually doing writeByte(0x02) on login, you should probably be doing writePacket(new LoginPacket(...))
18:46 < bartbart333> Yeah i know but i'm in a very early stage with this project so thats something i need to do when i know how minecraft works
18:46 < barneygale> that's fine. that's how most folks start
18:48 < bartbart333> but what do i need to do next i think i need to send the protocol id, username, ip and port but how
18:48 < Thinkofdeath> bartbart333: http://docs.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/io/DataOutputStream.html
18:48 < barneygale> bartbart333: http://wiki.vg/Data_Types
18:50 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to refactoring [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/RWHh1g
18:50 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn a7b062a - Fixed inventory bug related to placing blocks
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18:51 < bartbart333> but how do i need to write them
18:51 < bartbart333> what method do i need to use
18:51 <+SirCmpwn> bartbart333: let's think back to my earlier statements
18:51 < bartbart333> thanks
18:52 <+SirCmpwn> why not use one of the many existing minecraft clients as the basis for yours?
18:52 < barneygale> yeah, what are you trying to do? Is this just for fun, or do you have a purpose in mind?
18:52 < bartbart333> Do you know one thats low level so i can learn how minecraft works
18:53 <+SirCmpwn> you probably shouldn't learn how minecraft works, you'll be learning bad habits
18:53 <+SirCmpwn> but Craft.Net has a library that only does networking, if you want
18:53 < bartbart333> its for fun but i'm trying to make a chat client for minecraft
18:55 < bartbart333> Is it so hard to learn how the packets work
18:55 <+SirCmpwn> you should already know, it's all on wiki.vg
18:57 < bartbart333> that says what each packet is
18:57 < bartbart333> but i don't know how to send packets or how to receive
18:57 <+SirCmpwn> and also describes their structure and how they work. It also provides documentation detailing the login procedure, encryption details, and the data types each packets use
18:57 <+SirCmpwn> yes, because that's not our job, that's basic networking
18:58 <+SirCmpwn> we don't document java
18:58 < bartbart333> okay but can you please give code to send a 0x02 packet
18:59 <+SirCmpwn> I've got C# code
18:59 <+SirCmpwn> sadimusi probably has python code
18:59 <+SirCmpwn> dav1d might have D code
18:59 <+SirCmpwn> which would you like?
18:59 < dav1d> wat?
18:59 < dav1d> 0x02?
18:59 < bartbart333> I think you need to do writeByte(0x02); to indicate that it is an 0x02 packet but how to send the args
18:59 < dav1d> as any other packet
18:59 <+SirCmpwn> dav1d: this guy doesn't know his stuff and won't be convinced otherwise
19:00 < bartbart333> If possible java or something that looks like that
19:00 < dav1d> here 0x02 xD
19:00 < dav1d> https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/brala/network/packets/client.d#L23
19:00 <+SirCmpwn> here's mine: https://github.com/SirCmpwn/Craft.Net/blob/refactoring/source/Craft.Net.Networking/Packets.cs#L91
19:01 < dav1d> (new Handshake(60, "username", "host", 2222)).send(stream), done
19:01 <+SirCmpwn> new HandshakePacket(60, "username", "host", 2222).WritePacket(stream), done
19:01 < dav1d> https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/brala/network/connection.d#L115
19:01 < dav1d> the part where it is used
19:01 <+SirCmpwn> https://github.com/SirCmpwn/Craft.Net/blob/master/Craft.Net.Client/MinecraftClient.cs#L77
19:02 < barneygale> bartbart333: the next thing you send is protocol version, which you do via writeByte(protocol version here)
19:02 < barneygale> bartbart333: next you need to write two strings (username and server host). You need to write your own method for encoding strings, because minecraft uses a specific format. You can't just write them to the socket as the server won't know where it ends.
19:04 < bartbart333> i need to go
19:04 < bartbart333> dinner time
19:04 < barneygale> see you soon
19:04 < bartbart333> okay
19:05 < barneygale> SirCmpwn: be nice!
19:06 <+SirCmpwn> I would rather not encourage someone who will obviously fail to waste their time
19:06 <+SirCmpwn> I would instead advise them to learn more about their field before continuing
19:06 <+SirCmpwn> let's see what happens when he gets to encryption
19:07 < barneygale> If he's working in java that shouldn't be too bad
19:07 < barneygale> most of the trouble with encryption is replicating java's behaviour
19:07 <+SirCmpwn> shall we place a bet?
19:08 < barneygale> I'd rather we just help someone who's asked for help
19:08 < barneygale> I didn't know very much about network programming when I started
19:09 < barneygale> MC is a hard way to learn, sure, but he'll learn something along the way and he's only doing it for the experience.
19:09 <+SirCmpwn> he'll learn things along the way that will make him worse off than before
19:09 <+SirCmpwn> and I did give him code snippets
19:09 <+SirCmpwn> surely you knew how to work a stream when you started
19:10 < barneygale> I don't think he'll be worst off. Most of MC's bad habits are more high-level, e.g. threading or use of opengl
19:10 < barneygale> Protocol is getting saner and saner
19:10 < barneygale> much better than it used to be
19:11 <+SirCmpwn> better, yes, but still pretty damn bad
19:11 < barneygale> meh
19:11 < SinZ> its still not really a protocol
19:11 <+SirCmpwn> how many ways can you encode 3D coordinates
19:12 < SinZ> but Mojang don't care to fix it, because "It'll break backwards compatibility", which is why they just add features for youtubers to orgasm over
19:12 <+SirCmpwn> short,byte,short; float,float,float; double,double,double; "absolute int", absint, absint; "absolute byte", absbyte, absbyte; etc
19:12 <+SirCmpwn> surely there are more
19:12 <+SirCmpwn> short, short, short; too
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19:53 < TRocket> ping?
19:54 < TRocket> ping TRocket:ChanServ
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20:03 < dav1d> lol
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20:28 < AnotherOne> bartbart333: if you still need help, http://wiki.vg/How_to_Write_a_Client
20:32 < bartbart333> i'm back
20:33 < bartbart333> i barbecued
20:33 < dav1d> this is good for you!
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20:37 <+SirCmpwn> I wish Mojang would include packet length in the protocol
20:37 <+SirCmpwn> this would make my life so much easier
20:38 <+SirCmpwn> figuring out how long a packet is, that's one of the most annoying parts of reverse engineering the new snapshots
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20:40 < bartbart333> SirCmpwn can you please explain me how to send a full packet
20:40 < bartbart333> i know how to write a byte
20:40 < dav1d> write multiple bytes?
20:40 < dav1d> information is on the wiki
20:40 < bartbart333> but which method do you need to use to write the arguments
20:41 < dav1d> look it up
20:41 < dav1d> the data type name is even on the wiki page, simply look up how you can send it over a socket
20:42 < bartbart333> the wiki says which packet is what but it doesn't give any code or more specific information on how to program it
20:42 < dav1d> bartbart333: it does
20:42 < bartbart333> where
20:42  * SirCmpwn sighs
20:42 < dav1d> it tells you exactly which data type you have to send
20:42 <+SirCmpwn> bartbart333: you write each field of the packet, in order
20:42 <+SirCmpwn> it's not complicated, it's just a stream
20:43 < bartbart333> i'm sorry if i irritate you
20:43 <+SirCmpwn> your ignorance is not irritating
20:43 -!- umby24|offline is now known as umby24
20:44 <+SirCmpwn> your denial of your ignorance is irritating
20:44 < dav1d> bartbart333: all you need to do is constantly write data into the socket, the wiki tells you what you have to write into the stream
20:44 < dav1d> bartbart333: how you write that in the stream, I don't know, but if you already know how to write bytes, then you can also figure out who to write e.g. a short, integer or float
20:45 < dav1d> if you have more specific question we can help you, but we can't write the code for you
20:45 < bartbart333> its eay to write a integer or float or something but you can write a string in multiple ways
20:46 < bartbart333> you can do writeChars or writeUTF or writeBytes
20:46 <+SirCmpwn> it's right there on the wiki
20:47 <+SirCmpwn> http://wiki.vg/Data_Types
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20:47 <+SirCmpwn> UCS-2 string, big-endian. Prefixed by a short containing the length of the string in characters. UCS-2 consists of 16-bit words, each of which represent a Unicode code point between U+0000 and U+FFFF inclusive.
20:48 < Thinkofdeath> The Data Types page should be higher up on the page
20:48 < dav1d> bartbart333: on the wiki, length prefixed as short then UCS-2 (basically utf-16)
20:49 < bartbart333> so if i need to write a string i do writeshort with the length of the string and then i need to write utf16
20:50 <+SirCmpwn> it's UCS-2, not UTF-16
20:50 <+SirCmpwn> did you even read it?
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20:50 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: ...
20:50 < umby24> bartbart333, sounds about right.
20:50 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: UCS2 is basically utf-16
20:51 <+SirCmpwn> the byte ordering is wrong, dav1d
20:51 < dav1d> bartbart333: yes, if you're using java, der should be even a method to write UCS2
20:51 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: no
20:51 <+SirCmpwn> dav1d: really?
20:51 < umby24> and the link on the data types page for UCS-2 takes you to UTF-16 anyways, so that should be corrected if they're incompatible.
20:51 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: UCS2 is basically utf-16 only with a fixed character length of 2 byte
20:51 < bartbart333> yes i did read it but other people say its basically utf 16
20:51 <+SirCmpwn> dav1d: alright then, I thought the byte ordering was reversed
20:51 < dav1d> I just said that...
20:54 < bartbart333> okay i'm gonna try to find out how to write ucs2 to a datastream
20:56 <+ammar2> bartbart333: the writeChars method in DataOutputStream should do the trick
21:05 < bartbart333> I thing i'm getting somewhere
21:05 < bartbart333> the server says bartbart333 lost connection so it did receive my username 
21:06 <+SirCmpwn> you can't *just* send that
21:06 < bartbart333> i know you have to login to the server first
21:06 <+SirCmpwn> there's also encryption to be done, and then you have to handle pings, and then you can chat
21:06 < bartbart333> but i was stuck at sending strings
21:08 < bartbart333> to read incoming packets i think you need to read a byte and then the packet data
21:08 < bartbart333> ?
21:09 <+SirCmpwn> correct
21:09 < bartbart333> i'm finally getting somewhere
21:09 <+SirCmpwn> it would be unwise to use a giant switch...case or a bunch of if statements
21:13 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: how do you dispatch?
21:14 < dav1d> use a fat hash-map?
21:14 < dav1d> (less efficient then a switch-case)
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21:15 <+SirCmpwn> dav1d: I use a constant array of function pointers
21:15 <+SirCmpwn> handlers[packetId](...)
21:15 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: so, a switch case
21:15 <+SirCmpwn> yes, but maintainable
21:16 < dav1d> you haven't seen mine, I guess :D
21:16 <+SirCmpwn> don't need to go poking through a 2k line file to fix it up
21:16 <+SirCmpwn> what do you do?
21:16 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: a switch case :D
21:16 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/brala/network/connection.d#L128
21:17 < dav1d> in 7 lines :)
21:17 <+SirCmpwn> that's kind of sexy
21:17 <+ammar2> thats some nice syntax
21:17 <+ammar2> kinda makes me wanna use d
21:17 < dav1d> (import s = brala.network.packets.server)
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21:18 <+SirCmpwn> var packet = PacketReader.ReadPacket(stream)
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21:18 < dav1d> yeah you went the OOP route
21:18 < dav1d> I have a mix of both
21:18 <+SirCmpwn> https://github.com/SirCmpwn/SMProxy/blob/master/SMProxy/Proxy.cs#L91
21:19 < dav1d> casting to void* and passing the pointer and the id around instead of the super-class
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21:19 < dav1d> not optimal but it "happened"
21:19 <+SirCmpwn> SMProxy has some ugly formatting, I should fix that
21:19 <+SirCmpwn> mixed tabs and spaces
21:19 <+SirCmpwn> probably because MonoDevelop has tabs by default and I forgot to fix it
21:19 < dav1d> yeah github is an ass, displays tabs as 8 whitespaces
21:21 <+ammar2> and for more fun, it displays is at 2 spaces in diff views
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21:21 <+ammar2> s/is at/it as/
21:22 < bartbart333> The server returns -3 is that the same as 0xFD
21:23 <+SirCmpwn> java in once sentence, folks
21:24 <+ammar2> heh
21:24 <+ammar2> use readUnsignedByte bartbart333
21:25 <+ammar2> the method lies btw, it returns an int because java has no unsigned bytes ;)
21:27 < bartbart333> ok now it says 253
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21:27 < umby24> which is 0xFD.
21:28 < bartbart333> but is there a way to recognize that as 0xFD or do you need to figure that that out for every packet
21:29 <+SirCmpwn> do you know what 0xFD actually means, bartbart333
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21:29 < bartbart333> eem no
21:29 <+SirCmpwn> do you know anything other than java, bartbart333
21:30 < bartbart333> not realy except for php html and css
21:30 <+SirCmpwn> >php
21:30 <+SirCmpwn> okay, I shan't help you until you can convince me you aren't a first year CS student
21:31 < umby24> Do you know what hex is, bart?
21:31 < dav1d> bartbart333: 0xFD is FD with a basis of 16
21:32 < dav1d> *base
21:33 < bartbart333> SirCmpwn i'm from the Netherlands and i don't know what CS is
21:33 <+SirCmpwn> computer science
21:33 < umby24> Computer Science..
21:33 <+SirCmpwn> they offer CS courses in the netherlands, you know
21:34  * dav1d is a first year CS student
21:34 < bartbart333> o i'm at high school second year so i'm not a CS student
21:35 <+SirCmpwn> ah, so it's high school
21:35 < redu> bartbart333: if you got a free hour and want to learn more about binary and hex - www.computerscienceforeveryone.com/Course_1/Unit_2/ - go through unit 2
21:35 < bartbart333> i learned java and php myself from videos and a bit from a friend
21:35 <+SirCmpwn> bartbart333: well, let me tell you this: PHP is the worst language there has ever been, and though not nearly as much, Java is largely considered a joke as well
21:35 < bartbart333> binary is with 0101 is it?
21:35 <+SirCmpwn> if you plan to do networking, you should learn a low level language and get to know the metal better
21:36 < redu> bartbart333: it is
21:36 <+sadimusi> I don't see how a lower level language would help with networking
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21:36 < bartbart333> i know php is high level and not realy a programming language and java is also high level and not realy much used for pc's
21:36 <+SirCmpwn> sadimusi: it would help since he doesn't understand signed number or hexadecimal
21:37 <+SirCmpwn> numbers*
21:37 <+SirCmpwn> and getting closer to the metal makes you a better programmer overall
21:37 < bartbart333> yeah but i think its easier to start with somthing more simple like java
21:38 < bartbart333> i'm only 14 so i don't know everything
21:38 <+SirCmpwn> and then you jumped into minecraft, one of the worst network protocols with bad design decisions everywhere to learn from
21:38 < dav1d> sadimusi: a lower level language allows you to make less mistakes
21:38 <+sadimusi> bartbart333: php is a programming language (a horrible one) and java is used by thousands (millions?) of applications
21:39 <+SirCmpwn> html and css are the ones that aren't programming languages, bartbart333
21:39 <+sadimusi> dav1d: you mean if I make mistakes it blows up more?
21:39 < bartbart333> ok but php is realy different than java c++ c and c#
21:39 < dav1d> bartbart333: never give up! stuff is confusing at first, but once you get it, it's makes so much sense
21:40 <+SirCmpwn> if it blows up violently enough, it's more noticeable
21:40 < dav1d> sadimusi: mh, you could phrase it like that :P
21:40 <+sadimusi> SirCmpwn: that's one of the reasons why php is so horrible :)
21:40 < dav1d> but starting programming with a lower level language, I don't recommend that
21:40 <+SirCmpwn> you get a stack trace and a nice error message and a debugger if you use C, sadimusi
21:41 < bartbart333> yeah i started with php and now java
21:41 <+sadimusi> dav1d: at first I thought you were saying that low level langs are more tolerant for mistakes
21:41 < dav1d> sadimusi: ha! definitly not
21:41 <+SirCmpwn> bartbart333: forget about minecraft for a few years. Learn python.
21:41 < AnotherOne> no
21:41 < dav1d> yeah the "allow" doesn't quite fit in there
21:41 <+SirCmpwn> learn C when you're comfortable with python
21:42 < AnotherOne> no python
21:42 <+SirCmpwn> AnotherOne: why not
21:42 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: because he doesn't get encodings and now blames python for it
21:42 <+SirCmpwn> AnotherOne: he started on PHP, for goodness sake
21:42 < AnotherOne> why learn C after python?
21:42 < bartbart333> but i do know a lot of java i know a bit of lwjgl i made a chat server and client and a lot of other projects
21:42 <+SirCmpwn> python is a good first language
21:42 <+SirCmpwn> C is a good low level language
21:42 < dav1d> bartbart333: keep on doing what you enjoy
21:42 < dav1d> the rest comes from alone
21:42 < AnotherOne> python will make him a mind deformation
21:42 <+SirCmpwn> python will introduce him to programming, C will make him skilled
21:43 < dav1d> AnotherOne: could you please stop with you unquilified messages, which are simply wrong
21:43 < dav1d> why will C make him skilled o.O
21:43 < dav1d> you all have strange understandings
21:44 < AnotherOne> because C is good
21:44 <+SirCmpwn> dav1d: forces him to get closer to the metal
21:44 < AnotherOne> python and company are languages for lazy people
21:44 <+SirCmpwn> you have to understand how your computer works to be effective with C
21:44 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: I can program in C and understand nothing, but still write working code
21:44 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: no you don't have to
21:44 < AnotherOne> SirCmpwn is right
21:44 < dav1d> pure ASM, yes
21:44 < dav1d> AnotherOne: haha
21:44 <+SirCmpwn> so learn assembly, then
21:44 < dav1d> AnotherOne: should we make a little computer lesson?
21:45 < AnotherOne> pure ASM is too low level
21:45 < dav1d> AnotherOne: what is the L1 Cache and what type is it on most cpus?
21:45 <+ammar2> AnotherOne: C is for the lazies, pure asm is where its at
21:45 < AnotherOne> C is perfectly balanced
21:45 < AnotherOne> ammar2: not true
21:45 < bartbart333> this is turning into a program language discussion
21:45 < dav1d> bartbart333: as usally in here
21:45 <+ammar2> yeah we drift off topic a lot
21:45  * sadimusi leaves until this is over
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21:46 < dav1d> ^ good decision
21:46 <+ammar2> that being said, if you do have an on topic question feel free to ask
21:46 < bartbart333> i see
21:46 < dav1d> arguing with AnotherOne is pointless, it's like arguing with a wall
21:46 < bartbart333> so its going offtopic very fast in here
21:46 < AnotherOne> this is the eternal holy war
21:46 <+SirCmpwn> off topic is fine so long as it doesn't interfere with on topic discussion, bartbart333
21:47 < AnotherOne> =but python is still better than java and c# to start
21:47 < dav1d> wth
21:47 < dav1d> why do you say that?
21:47 < dav1d> YOu don't even know how python works at all
21:47 <+SirCmpwn> he's baiting you, dav1d
21:48 < dav1d> so what qualifies you to say that?
21:48 < AnotherOne> i know enough
21:48 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: true, but so much stuipidity
21:48 < dav1d> s/stuipidity/ignorance/
21:48 < dav1d> well maybe both
21:48 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 2 commits to master [+1/-0/±7] http://git.io/cT48uQ
21:48 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 6156c1d - Entity fixes and tick event
21:48 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 9638bd9 - Minor bug fixes (speed issue not fixed)
21:49 < AnotherOne> well, ok
21:49 < AnotherOne> you like python, i dont like python
21:49 < AnotherOne> let's stop this
21:49 < AnotherOne> hm
21:49 < AnotherOne> what about lua?
21:50 < dav1d> we never started
21:50 < AnotherOne> you started
21:50 < dav1d> because one can't start a meaningful discussion with you
21:50 < bartbart333> lol
21:50 < AnotherOne> because of searing butthurt
21:51 < bartbart333> i want to learn java first because i already started with it
21:51 < AnotherOne> good luck
21:51 < bartbart333> and later i will try c or something like that
21:51 <+SirCmpwn> that's a shitty reason
21:51 < dav1d> bartbart333: that's fine! Do whatever you like, the rest comes from alone
21:51 <+SirCmpwn> at least forget about PHP, please
21:51 < AnotherOne> y u hate php?
21:52 < bartbart333> its not a good order but i quite like java because its not too hard and its multiplatform
21:52 <+SirCmpwn> I'm sorry, I don't understand lazy-ass
21:52 <+SirCmpwn> type your words out
21:52 < bartbart333> php is crap but you need it if you want to make a website
21:52 < AnotherOne> almost everything is multiplatform
21:52 <+SirCmpwn> bullshit, bartbart333
21:52 <+SirCmpwn> I make them for a living and I wouldn't touch PHP with a 9 foot pole
21:53 < dav1d> bartbart333: that is possible in every language, and almost every language does it better than php
21:53 < AnotherOne> so why does php exist then?
21:53 <+SirCmpwn> pandering to the stupid and lazy
21:54 < bartbart333> because people made it
21:54 < dav1d> it was the first after C and perl, which are a few worse, companies picked it up, it got a lot of hype, now there are too many php free-hosters
21:54 < AnotherOne> is perl bad too?
21:54 <+SirCmpwn> not really
21:54 < dav1d> do you even read what I write?
21:55 < AnotherOne> yep
21:55 < dav1d> Ever tried to webprogram in perl with cgi?
21:55 <+SirCmpwn> I've seen this joke about perl before: cat /dev/random | perl
21:55 < AnotherOne> and you?
21:55 < dav1d> It is possible, I even know a few guys who actually do that for fun, but it is a pain
21:55 < dav1d> yes I did
21:55 < dav1d> friend of mine wrote a blog in pure perl
21:56 <+SirCmpwn> did you guys hear about my brainfuck adventures?
21:56 < buttscicles> you mean the one that was all over reddit and hn? :)
21:57 <+SirCmpwn> yeah, that one
21:57 <+SirCmpwn> https://github.com/SirCmpwn/bf-irc-bot/blob/master/irc-bot.bf
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21:58 < bartbart333> but should i read incomming packets with readbyte or readunsignedbyte
21:58 <+SirCmpwn> packet IDs get unsignedByte
21:58 <+SirCmpwn> everything else gets whatever is appropriate given the context
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21:58 < bartbart333> and do i need to learn Hex or something to understand which packet that is
21:59 < bartbart333> i mean packet IDs so that unsigned byte
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21:59 <+SirCmpwn> you need to learn how to use different bases if you want to be of any use at all anyway
21:59 < dav1d> bartbart333: "hex" is no language or notation, it's math
22:00 < bartbart333> i know that its not a programming language i thing it is something like binary
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22:01 <+ammar2> yes, its a different way to represent a number
22:01 < bartbart333> but if i know hex i can understand what 253 is
22:01 < umby24> 253 is a number
22:01 < bartbart333> aha
22:01 < umby24> :D
22:01 <+SirCmpwn> it's not something you know, it's just math
22:01 < bartbart333> i get that
22:02 <+SirCmpwn> that's like saying "if I know variables I can solve for x"
22:02 < bartbart333> okay but i mean i have to learn it  or how you want to call it
22:02 < dexter0> 0xFD?
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22:02 <+SirCmpwn> the wiki lists the packet IDs in hexadecimal
22:02 <+SirCmpwn> so what do you think
22:02 < bartbart333> i don't know how to name it so i say learn
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22:03 < bartbart333> so i'm going to lookup hexadecimal
22:03 < bartbart333> is hex also used for colour codes?
22:03 <+Fador> hex is not that hard.. 0123456789abcdef where a = 10, b = 11.. f = 15
22:03 < bartbart333> #FFFFFF
22:03 <+Fador> yeah
22:03 <+SirCmpwn> in CSS, yes
22:04 <+SirCmpwn> #AABBCC, where AA is R, BB is G, and CC is B, for RGB color notation
22:04 < bartbart333> i think thats not realy hard to understand
22:04 <+SirCmpwn> but you could also represent a color in numerous other ways - hex is just a way of representing numbers
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22:05 <+ammar2> it isn't that hard, once you get used to it you can do conversions in your head from your natural base 10 pretty fast
22:05 <+ammar2> or better yet, not even need to convert
22:05 <+SirCmpwn> better yet, just think in hex
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22:06 < Zartec> everyone here with experiece for a mc cluster in c++?
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22:08 < dav1d> hex is useful because bin → hex is really easy and makes binary more readable
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22:11 < TRocket> irc client SNAFU :P
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22:12 < bartbart333> windows calculator can also calulate in hex
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22:12 < TRocket> but windows calculator is so ;)
22:13 -!- Dinnerbone [~dinnerbon@i.could.have.had.any.host.but.i.decided.on.dinnerbone.com] has joined #mcdevs
22:13 <+SirCmpwn> actually, the windows 7 calc is very nice
22:13 < TRocket> still prefer google calc
22:14 < bartbart333> indeed
22:14 <+SirCmpwn> google calc is inferior for doing calculations in several bases
22:14 < bartbart333> i mean wincalc
22:14 < bartbart333> but do i need to read every packet
22:14 <+SirCmpwn> yes
22:14 <+SirCmpwn> this is explicitly stated on the wiki
22:14 < bartbart333> or can i skip them somehow
22:15 <+SirCmpwn> three or four times, probably
22:15 < bartbart333> i forgot that
22:15 < dx> is this another one like the guy who wanted to write alt codes in putty?
22:15 < bartbart333> so i do need to recocnize all the packets and then read all the data that comes with the packets
22:16 <+SirCmpwn> read the god damn wiki already
22:17 < bartbart333> i'm sorry
22:17 < bartbart333> hmmm this is gonna be a hell lot of work i think
22:17 < TRocket> what are you trying to do?
22:18 <+SirCmpwn> yes, it will be a hell of a lot of work
22:18 <+SirCmpwn> that's why we've suggested that you use someone else's client instead
22:18 <+SirCmpwn> and build on that
22:19 < TRocket> we should make a unified protocol library in a low-level language c++? and write wrappers for other languages
22:19 < dx> >c++
22:19 <+SirCmpwn> ^
22:19 < dx> >low level
22:19 <+SirCmpwn> I have a C# Minecraft networking library, bartbart333
22:19 <+SirCmpwn> it already handles all the possible packet types
22:20 <+SirCmpwn> C# is similar enough to Java that you can probably pick it up
22:20 < dx> it's a pain in the ass to make c++ bindings, too
22:20 -!- AnotherOne|2 is now known as AnotherOne
22:20 <+SirCmpwn> dx: plus, native sockets are a cross platform nightmare
22:20 < AnotherOne> dx: worth it
22:20 < dx> AnotherOne: ...
22:20 < AnotherOne> boost::asio?
22:20 <+SirCmpwn> yeah, get that to interop with java and python and C# and ruby and node.js and whatever else
22:21 < AnotherOne> why not leave socket implementation to user?
22:21 < dx> "worth it" as if writing the equivalent code in C wasn't pretty much the same, and just export functions that can be used with any FFI directly
22:22 <+SirCmpwn> suggest another means, AnotherOne, that can easily interop with everything
22:23 < bartbart333> SirCmpwn can you send me a link to your library so i can look at i
22:23 < bartbart333> it
22:23 <+SirCmpwn> I've linked you to it a few times, actually, when you've asked for code snippets
22:23 <+SirCmpwn> https://github.com/SirCmpwn/Craft.Net
22:23 <+SirCmpwn> you can put together a chat program in 5 minutes with this
22:23 < AnotherOne> i don't know about bindings, but i think it is ok to make only message classes, and read from byte array buffer
22:24 < AnotherOne> filling buffer is user's part
22:24 < dx> we were talking specifically about bindings
22:24 <+SirCmpwn> reading packets with a buffer is tedious and annoying, you want to make it more so by adding interop to the mix?
22:24 <+SirCmpwn> I mean, by all means, feel free to write your library, but don't expect many people to use it
22:24 < bartbart333> but i need to translate it to java before i can use it
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22:25 <+SirCmpwn> bartbart333: or you could just use C#
22:25 <+SirCmpwn> it's like java, but not terrible
22:25 < dx> ^
22:25 < dx> i'm not a fan of C# but that description is accurate
22:26 < TRocket> SirCmpwm: wait a second... you want to write something portable in c#?
22:26 < dx> TRocket: the stuff he writes is portable, with mono
22:26 < bartbart333> but i don't know anything about c# so if i switch to c# i need to find everything out
22:26 <+SirCmpwn> Craft.Net runs on Windows, Linux, Mac, Xbox 360, Windows Phone 7/8, Android, iOS, and mroe
22:26 <+SirCmpwn> and I work on it primarily from linux
22:26 < mbaxter> He didn't mean portable he meant potable.
22:27 < dx> lol
22:27 <+SirCmpwn> bartbart333: like I said, it's similar enough to java that you could figure it out pretty easy
22:27 < AnotherOne> mono?
22:27 < bartbart333> i didn't know that you could run c# on other platforms
22:28 < dx> AnotherOne: welcome to 8 years ago, there's an open source implementation of .net languages such as C#
22:28 < Morrolan> Mono is usually a version or two behind, but you can. :)
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22:28 <+SirCmpwn> Mono is actually very quick to update
22:28 <+SirCmpwn> it's currently right up next to the latest MS.NET version
22:28 < Morrolan> Oh? Clearly I'm a few years behind too, then. :D
22:28 <+SirCmpwn> you have to build it from source if you want the latest stuff
22:28 < Morrolan> Ah.
22:28 < dx> yeah, that's the main issue
22:28 <+SirCmpwn> because repository maintainers are among the worst people alive
22:28 < dx> indeed
22:29  * Morrolan snrks
22:29 <+SirCmpwn> use arch, though, if you want it faster
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22:29 < redu> chanserv! noooo
22:29 < AnotherOne> arch
22:29 < dx> debian likes stability, even if that means that the current version won't run most stuff due to bugs that were fixed later
22:29 < AnotherOne> i like arch
22:30 < AnotherOne> but archj likes to fall apart suddenly
22:30 <+SirCmpwn> Mono does have broken crypto support, though, which sucks because now Craft.Net has a platform-specific dependency
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22:37 < bartbart333> but if the packet lengt has a fixed length you can skip it somehow
22:37 <+SirCmpwn> correct
22:37 <+SirCmpwn> you have to figure out the length of every packet, though
22:37 < bartbart333> do you just need to read a number bytes
22:37 <+SirCmpwn> it's probably a better idea to just read it out and discard it
22:38 < dx> itc rocket science
22:39 < bartbart333> but its much easier to just skip the bytes if you know the length instead of reading everything
22:39 <+SirCmpwn> you'll save 20 seconds and add 20 minutes of unmaintainability
22:39 < dx> nobody will tell you the length
22:39 < dx> a bunch of packets have variable length too
22:40 < TRocket> for example packets with stringds
22:40 < TRocket> *strings
22:41 < dx> oh forgot about those derp, "a bunch" is an understatement now
22:41 < bartbart333> but i only mean the packets with a fixed lengt
22:41 < dx> 17:36 <+SirCmpwn> you'll save 20 seconds and add 20 minutes of unmaintainability
22:41 < umby24> <SirCmpwn> it's probably a better idea to just read it out and discard it
22:41 <+SirCmpwn> read out each field, that is
22:46 < dx> i made some ADVANCED STATISTICS
22:46 < dx> 45% of packets have variable length
22:46 < dx> i expected something worse tbh
22:46 <+ammar2> how many of them are caused by strings
22:46 < dx> "most"
22:48 < dx> hmm, at least 17 out of the 36 i counted mention "length of string" in the size field
22:48 < dx> the others have metadata / slots / byte arrays / chunks / etc
22:50 < dx> either way i don't think many people bother to use the "total size" field of the protocol wiki page tables, so they might not be accurate or up to date
22:53 < bartbart333> i get it i have to read each packet
22:54 < dx> "It is really unfair that people think I am balancing this game to a select few."
22:54 < dx> from dinnerbro's twitter
22:55 < Morrolan> dx: Huh? What did he do right before that tweet?
22:56 < mbaxter> Deleted squids.
22:56 < dx> Morrolan: apparently he played a pvp match with some people and people assumed that some features he added were for them
22:56 < dx> mbaxter: whoa.
22:56 < dx> mbaxter: dinnerbro confirmed for evil
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22:58 < bartbart333> if you turn offline mode on is it correct that the server id = -
22:59 <+ammar2> yes
23:00 < bartbart333> i'm currently reading a short and then a for loop which reads as many chars as the short
23:01 < bartbart333> 					short length = in.readShort(); 					String serverid = ""; 					for(short i = 0; i < length; i++){ 						serverid += in.readChar(); 					}
23:01 < AnotherOne> from socket?
23:01 < bartbart333> is that correct?
23:01 < AnotherOne> use pastebin.com
23:02 < bartbart333> where in is the datainputstream
23:02 < dav1d> bartbart333: you can read that directly
23:02 < AnotherOne> no
23:02 < bartbart333> how
23:02 < AnotherOne> reading directly is bad
23:02 < dav1d> bartbart333: socket.read(amount), but watch out, there is another function in Java which reads exactly N bytes
23:03 < dav1d> AnotherOne: wtf?
23:03 <+ammar2> AnotherOne: could you stop making drastic statements without at least justifying them in the same line
23:03 < mbaxter> Read indirectly. Don't look into its eyes.
23:03 <+ammar2> you're only confusing the beginner
23:04 < AnotherOne> huh...
23:04 < dav1d> bartbart333: readFully
23:04 < bartbart333> is my code correct in your opinion
23:04 < AnotherOne> reading directly from socket is BAD because too many calls
23:04 < dav1d> AnotherOne: also what you said is just wrong
23:04 < dav1d> AnotherOne: WTF
23:04 < dx> "too many calls" lol
23:04 < dav1d> bartbart333: use readFully(amount)
23:05 < dx> what kind of argument is that
23:05 < dav1d> bartbart333: this should exactly do what you need
23:05 < Zartec> but this doesnt wirk with serverid
23:05 < Zartec> becouse its an utf16 string
23:05 < bartbart333> i just want to know how to read strings from the datastream 
23:06 < bartbart333> but now its a bit confusing
23:06 < AnotherOne> oh yes
23:06 < AnotherOne> short before string is number of symbols, not bytes
23:06 < AnotherOne> symbols are 2 bytes each
23:07 <+ammar2> readChar() reads two bytes off the stream
23:07 < bartbart333> and i can read symbols with readChar right?
23:07 < AnotherOne> how to read 1 char then?
23:08 < AnotherOne> readByte()?
23:08 <+ammar2> AnotherOne: a char in java is 2 bytes, and yeah
23:08 < AnotherOne> 1 byte*\
23:08 < bartbart333> so i basically need to do a loop that runs as much times as the short and in that loop do readChar
23:09 <+ammar2> bartbart333: yeah just like the one you pasted above, that should work fine
23:09 < bartbart333> thanks
23:09 < AnotherOne> why not use array-based buffer?
23:09 <+ammar2> reading fully into a byte[] and then turning it into a string and decoding as utf-16 might be more of a pain with java
23:10 < dav1d> ammar2: there is no such function in java?
23:10 < dav1d> wtf
23:10 < AnotherOne> i've tried stream-based buffer in c++
23:10 <+ammar2> dav1d: yup
23:10 < AnotherOne> it is much slower than array
23:10 < dav1d> fixEndians(cast(wchar*)array.ptr[0..array.length/2])
23:10 < dav1d> fixEndians((cast(wchar*)array.ptr)[0..array.length/2])
23:11 < dx> dav1d: there's always stuff to handle this, but it's usually much less straightforward than you'd think
23:11 < AnotherOne> why fix endians?
23:11 <+ammar2> dav1d: you're supposed to write out strings with the writeUTF function, not sure why they don't just use that, maybe its because utf8 doesn't cover the section symbol they need
23:11 < AnotherOne> java is big-endian, isn't it?
23:11 < dav1d> fixEndians(cast(wchar[])(cast(void[])array))
23:11 < umby24> yes it is
23:11 <+ammar2> more importantly, network order is big endian
23:11 < dav1d> ammar2: well, I have a function for that, I can ready utf-16 strings directly from the socket
23:12 < dav1d> (library supported)
23:12 < dx> ammar2: utf8 doesn't cover wat
23:12 <+ammar2> dx: simolean
23:12 <+ammar2> chat colour code
23:12 < dav1d> also I don't need a fixEndians, because EndianStream <3
23:12 < dx> ammar2: §?
23:12 < dav1d> fixes it for me
23:12 <+ammar2> yes, that is the section symbol
23:12 < dx> ammar2: i just sent that as utf-8 over this chat
23:12 <+ammar2> oh well
23:12 < dx> lol
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23:13 <+ammar2> maybe its because it was done this way and they haven't bothered changing
23:13 < dav1d> AnotherOne: endianes of the system doesn't matter, but network byte order
23:13 < dx> yep
23:13 < dx> actually i think it was utf-8 before and they switched for a reason i forgot
23:13 < dx> i can't imagine why, since utf-8 is variable length and can cover all of unicode
23:13 < dav1d> utf-8 is variable length?
23:14 < dx> ye, some chinese characters are 4 bytes for example
23:14 < AnotherOne> yes
23:14 < dav1d> they would need to get the string length not the code-point length
23:14 < dav1d> dx: ^
23:14 < dav1d> and notch
23:14 < dav1d> no just kidding, maybe it's not that easy in Java?
23:14 < dx> lol i dunno
23:14 < dav1d> in UCS-2 one code-point = 2byte no matter what
23:14 < dav1d> makes it easier
23:15 < dav1d> probably also the reason why they didn't use utf-16
23:15 <+ammar2> dav1d: its very easy, dataoutputstream.writeUTF("hello world"), datainputstream.readUTF();
23:15 <+ammar2> writes the string out as utf8
23:15 < dav1d> ok
23:15 < dav1d> then I blame notch
23:16 < dav1d> ammar2: how is the length sent?
23:16 < dav1d> or are codepoints sent?
23:16 < dav1d> (well how does writeUTF send the length)
23:16 <+ammar2> dav1d: tl;dr, short prefix, gritty details here http://docs.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/io/DataOutputStream.html#writeUTF(java.lang.String)
23:16 < dx> dav1d: yep, but there's also unicode code points that need more than 16 bits
23:16 <+ammar2> but the short gives bytes sent, not characters
23:16 < dav1d> LOL
23:17 < dav1d> then why da fuq do they use UCS-2
23:17 < bartbart333> omg why is the a byte array
23:17 < bartbart333> why couldn't they just make it a string
23:17 <+ammar2> bartbart333: wut
23:17 < dx> wut
23:17 < bartbart333> the public key
23:17 < dav1d> bartbart333: because that is not a string
23:17 < dav1d> bartbart333: use .readFully(length)
23:17 < dav1d> bartbart333: and you get exactly what you need
23:18 < bartbart333> okay
23:18 < bartbart333> this is a pain in the ars
23:18 < AnotherOne> searing butthurt
23:19 < dav1d> bartbart333: why?
23:19 < dav1d> .readFully is one call and returns you what you need
23:20 < dav1d> you should probably try to understand how the encryption works (well not in detail, but to get an overview)
23:20 < bartbart333> its readfully(byte)
23:20 <+ammar2> yeah you need to give it a buffer
23:20 <+ammar2> to put stuff into
23:20 < dav1d> well, isn't hard, is it
23:20 < dav1d> byte[] buffer = new byte[length_I_just_read]
23:20 < dav1d> readFully(buffer)
23:21 < bartbart333> i made a byte[] byte = null
23:21 < bartbart333> o 
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23:21 < bartbart333> i will change it dav1d
23:21 <+ammar2> how do you expect it to read into a null array? ;_;
23:21 < dav1d> bartbart333: this won't work
23:21 < dav1d> ^
23:21 < dav1d> it tries to fill the array, but you pass it an empty array
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23:22 < bartbart333> i made it as you said
23:22 <+ammar2> dav1d: or rather, a null pointer which is supposed to be an array :D
23:22 < bartbart333> but i'm heading to the television now
23:22 < dav1d> ammar2: byte[] foo = null; // this is not an empty array?
23:23 <+ammar2> actually I'm not even sure if thats valid syntax
23:23 < bartbart333> thanks a lot for all the help
23:23 <+ammar2> since you can't have null primitives
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23:25 <+ammar2> dav1d: well what do you know, http://ideone.com/uxJYsv
23:25 <+ammar2> it is in fact a null pointer, not an empty array
23:25 < dx> dav1d: what language do you use in which "null" also works as the data type it's supposed to be?
23:26 < dx> ..oh derp
23:26 < dx> ammar2 was the one saying that
23:26 < dav1d> dx: D
23:26 <+ammar2> dx: I said it would be a null pointer, dav1d said it would be an empty array
23:26 < dx> fuck i was still confused
23:27 < dav1d> dx: http://dpaste.dzfl.pl/6970341a
23:27 < dx> dav1d: interesting.
23:27 < dx> dav1d: what about more complex types?
23:27 < dav1d> dx: it sets the ptr to null
23:27 < dav1d> dx: makes no difference
23:27 < dav1d> struct Array(T) { T* ptr; size_t length }
23:27 < dav1d> ptr = null, aber length wird auch 0
23:27 < dx> but how do you access attributes of a pointer that... goes nowhere?
23:28 < dx> oh hey i could understand that
23:28 < dav1d> dx: you don't runtime checks bounds
23:28 < dav1d> it's a templated struct
23:28 < dav1d> basically
23:28 < dav1d> containing a pointer and the length
23:28 < dav1d> (you can disable the runtime-checks though)
23:29 < dav1d> -noboundscheck, then x[10] = 3 would probably segfault
23:29 < AnotherOne> good night
23:29 < AnotherOne> im going to sleep
23:29 < AnotherOne> bye
23:29 < dx> how does it get sane defaults when dereferencing a null?
23:29 < dav1d> dx: Segfault
23:29 < dx> ..lol
23:29 < dx> even with runtime checks?
23:29 < dav1d> dx: you can enable an Exception though
23:30 < dav1d> dx: well a segfault is basically a signal
23:30 < dx> so basically you can dereference nulls "sometimes" and for non-trivial stuff it's still as unreliable as anything else
23:30 < dav1d> dx: well it *is* a signal, there is a runtime function which allows you to handle that signal and print a stacktrace
23:30 < dx> ye
23:30 < dav1d> dx: int[] x = null;
23:31 < dav1d> dx: but x is a struct: struct Array { int* ptr; size_t length }
23:31 < dav1d> dx: structs on the stack can't be null
23:31 < dav1d> dx: Array x; x.ptr = null; x.length = 0;
23:31 < dx> oooh so you don't assign the null value to that variable
23:31 < dav1d> dx: you can't set a non-pointer to null
23:32 < dx> dav1d: arrays have always been pointers to me :P
23:32 < dx> dav1d: but having arrays as structs with length makes sense
23:33 < dav1d> dx: that's C
23:33 < dx> ye
23:33 < dav1d> having the length bundled with the pointer has so many (dammit forgot the english words)
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23:33 < dx> ...advantages?
23:33 < dav1d> *advantages
23:33 < dav1d> yes :)
23:33 < dav1d> thanks
23:33 < dx> indeed.
23:34 < dav1d> also nifty thing: (hold on)
23:34 < dx> in fact it's the only way to have those runtime checks
23:35 < dav1d> dx: http://dpaste.dzfl.pl/68645a3c
23:35 < dav1d> :)
23:35 < dav1d> slice any pointer and you get an array
23:35 < dx> neat!
23:35 < dx> wait wrong language
23:35 < dav1d> :)
23:36 < dav1d> dx: mh can you see the compileroutput on this page?
23:36 < dav1d> I can't but it is supposed to show it
23:36 < dx> i can hide and show a div that has no contents
23:36 < dav1d> mh, bug
23:36 < dav1d> gotta blame the one who made it :D
23:37 < dav1d> well result is: [0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0]
23:37 < dx> cast(int*), int.sizeof, looks weird but slightly more explicit, i like it
23:37 < dav1d> dx: yeah that's the deal with C functions
23:38 < dx> oh, you almost never need to use sizeof within D?
23:38 < dav1d> dx: http://dpaste.dzfl.pl/c42b6bb5
23:38 < dav1d> dx: no
23:38 < dav1d> dx: int[] x; x.length = 10; (automatically allocates)
23:39 < dav1d> dx: int[] x = new int[](10) – or int[] x = new int[10];
23:39 < dx> to the heap?
23:39 < dav1d> yes
23:39 < dav1d> dx: there is also alloca but meh, static arrays: int[10] x;
23:40 < dx> cool.
23:40 < dav1d> dx: or std.functional (I think) has a few helpers e.g. to allocate a class on the stack
23:40 < dav1d> new = heap 
23:41 < dav1d> x[] = 0;
23:41 < dav1d> clears the array
23:41 < dav1d> int[] x; – by default zeroed out (T[] set to T.init)
23:41 < dav1d> int[] x = void; to do it like malloc (random bytes possible)
23:41 < dx> x[] = 0 -> sets every entry to zero or truncates to 0 entries?
23:42 < dav1d> x = [1,2,3]; x[] = 0; assert(x == [0,0,0])
23:42 < dx> gotcha
23:42 < dav1d> but that's not often useful, but when you need it, extremly handy
23:43 < dx> yeah, i guess that having zeros as default removes most of its uses
23:43 < dav1d> yep
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--- Day changed dim. juin 09 2013
00:10 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/OCr5sw
00:10 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath f52fd1a - Fixed speed issue Sprinting is broken because it seems to be server-side now
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11:39 < AnotherOne> hello people
11:40 < bartbart333> hello
11:51 < TRocket> hi
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17:57 < Zartec> hey, anybody there who can help me with a little problem
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17:59 < Thinkofdeath> Just ask your question and someone will answer when/if they can
18:00 < Zartec> ok, ive written a proxy for mc. It works perfektly if i run mc and the proxy on the same host and the mc-server on my root, bot if i run proxy and mc-server on the root, i will get the error messeage: "Bad compressed data"
18:06 < barneygale> Zartec: it may be that your proxy is relying on an entire packet being read from a single recv(), but iirc this is not necessarily the case
18:06 < barneygale> someone correct me if that's bullshit?
18:10 < Zartec> the thing i dont understand is, that it works really perfectly when the proxy is running on localhost. The error is thrown on the packet "0x38 - Map Chunk Bulk" in which the compressed chunk data is sent.
18:11 < barneygale> You won't get packet fragmentation locally
18:11 < Zartec> And the proxy actually only parses the packets and sends them to the client
18:11 < Yoshi2> it depends on how you're sending or reading data, what barneygale said is one of several options why your code might be failing
18:13 < barneygale> Zartec: https://github.com/barneygale/mcrelay/blob/master/mcrelay.py#L185
18:13 < barneygale> See how it tries to decode a packet, but if it catches an Underrun exception, it rolls back the buffer?
18:15 < Zartec> the same way i am reading the packets
18:16 < barneygale> Hm.
18:16 < Zartec> the packet is also complete if i dump them hexlike and cont the bytes^^ thats no funny work
19:01 < Thinkofdeath> Just updated http://wiki.vg/Pre-release_protocol 's Chat Message and Entity Properties packets
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19:32 < barneygale> good stuff Thinkofdeath 
19:33 < SinZ> Thinkofdeath: maybe link to dinnerbones gist all on the format?
19:33 < Thinkofdeath> SinZ: Do you have a link to it?
19:34 < SinZ> https://gist.github.com/Dinnerbone/5631634
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19:35 < Thinkofdeath> SinZ: Done
19:37 < Thinkofdeath> Also should I make a point about the movespeed defaulting to 0.7? The client moves x7 the speed it used to, unless you change it with entity properties (also I think sprinting may be server side now)
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20:03 < AnotherOne> give me a link to burger packets description please
20:07 < dx> ...any particular reason you can't find it yourself?
20:07 < AnotherOne> i dont know where to find
20:08 < dx> click wiki link, see "burger vitrine" link, click that one too
20:08 < dx> anyway http://b.wiki.vg/1.5.2#packets
20:10 < AnotherOne> nice
20:15 <+SirCmpwn> I wouldn't rely on burger for much longer
20:15 <+SirCmpwn> it hasn't been able to extract protocol details from the latest snapshots
20:17 < dx> SirCmpwn: doesn't mean it can't be fixed
20:19 < AnotherOne> i will say dx's favourite phrase
20:19 < AnotherOne> i have butthurt
20:19 < AnotherOne> massive searing butthurt
20:19 < dx> lel
20:20 < AnotherOne> looks like mojans uses templated packets
20:20 < AnotherOne> mojang*
20:20 < AnotherOne> and i wasted a lot of time to make mine
20:20 < AnotherOne> because i wanted field names
20:21 < dx> what's a templated packet
20:21 < AnotherOne> hmm...
20:21 < AnotherOne> for example Packet<string> -> chat message packet
20:21 < dx> er..
20:22 < AnotherOne> but field name will be "a" or something
20:22 < AnotherOne> do you know how c++ templating works?
20:22 <+SirCmpwn> dx: well, sadimusi isn't fixing it
20:22 <+SirCmpwn> and I certainly won't be
20:23 < dx> AnotherOne: no
20:23 < AnotherOne> you make special class and can give types of fields as arguments
20:23 < AnotherOne> or function
20:24 <+sadimusi> SirCmpwn: I will update burger, I didn't know it was broken
20:24 <+SirCmpwn> sadimusi: thanks
20:24 <+SirCmpwn> sadimusi: I've told you a few times, but you've been offline
20:25 < dx> AnotherOne: so it was just a weird way to say that the packets use parameters for the values?
20:25 < AnotherOne> for example, max function: template<typename T> T max(T a, T b) { return a > b ? a : b;}
20:25 < AnotherOne> and you dont have to implement this for every type
20:25 < AnotherOne> because T will be replaced by needed type
20:26 < AnotherOne> parameters?
20:27 <+SirCmpwn> this is called generics in java and in C#
20:27 <+SirCmpwn> what makes you think Mojang has done this for packets
20:28 < AnotherOne> burger code look
20:28 < AnotherOne> http://b.wiki.vg/1.5.2#packets:0x01
20:29 < AnotherOne> for example
20:29 < AnotherOne> no field names
20:29 < AnotherOne> just a, b and so on
20:29 < dx> welcome to minecraft
20:29 < dx> the jars released by minecraft are obfuscated
20:30 < dx> err
20:30 < dx> released by mojang, lol
20:31 < AnotherOne> well, ok
20:31 < AnotherOne> but now i.m thinking about templated classes
20:31 < AnotherOne> and throwing big part of code away
20:32 < dx> in particular the obfuscator will use any possible opportunity to get the shortest and most unreadable name, so if there are five functions with different parameter definitions, all of them will be called "a"
20:32 < dx> fun, isn't it
20:34 < AnotherOne> writeByte(a);
20:34 < AnotherOne> function name is ok
20:34 < AnotherOne> argument's name is not
20:34 < dx> writeBye 
20:34 < dx> derp enter
20:34 < AnotherOne> so it makes me think about templates
20:34 < dx> *writeByte is deobfuscated by burger
20:34 < AnotherOne> oh
20:35 < dx> "a" refers to "this.a", the "a" attribute of the packet class
20:36 < dx> burger could write a.a((byte) a) but that doesn't sound as nice
20:37 < dx> (that first a should be something else, but meh, it's just an example)
20:38 < AnotherOne> i see, obfuscator does not help:)
20:39 < AnotherOne> but it sets some thresold so retarded schoolboys cant make "supadupamineleet"
20:39 < AnotherOne> just by decompiling vanilla client
20:40 < dx> except that MCP deobfuscates everything shortly after every release
20:40 < AnotherOne> MCP?
20:40 < dx> minecraft coder pack, what almost every vanilla client modder uses
20:41 < dx> 15:26 < dx> welcome to minecraft
20:41 < AnotherOne> heh
20:41 < Yoshi2> welcome to minecraft, where everything is obfuscated to no avail
20:42 < AnotherOne> and where Y has different type in every packet
20:42 < AnotherOne> i like mojang so much
20:43 < AnotherOne> they fuck with nibbles in multiblock change, but make json chat
20:43 < AnotherOne> why does one need ti use nibbles nowadays?
20:44 < AnotherOne> to*
20:44 < Yoshi2> nibbles are fun
20:44 < AnotherOne> nope
20:45 < AnotherOne> it would be better if they remade mc in c++
20:46 < AnotherOne> it is ok yo use java to make quick and dirty proof of concept
20:46 < AnotherOne> or mini game
20:47 < AnotherOne> but damn, minecratf is not a mini game anymore
20:47 <+SirCmpwn> but on the other hand, C++ isn't always the solution
20:47 < AnotherOne> what is then?
20:47 <+SirCmpwn> python, C#, a number of others
20:47 <+SirCmpwn> java isn't really that bad for it, either, Minecraft is just poorly designed
20:48 < AnotherOne> yes it is bad
20:48 <+SirCmpwn> java is bad, but it's still a viable game development platform
20:48 < AnotherOne> not everyone has huge amount of RAM
20:48 <+SirCmpwn> it's got opengl bindings and cross platform support
20:48 <+SirCmpwn> it's 2013, if you expect to play games on less than 4 GB of RAM, you're mistaken
20:48 < AnotherOne> omfg
20:49 < AnotherOne> problem is mc does not free memory
20:49 < Yoshi2> I'm playing games just fine on 3 GB of RAM :)
20:49 <+SirCmpwn> don't be tricked into thinking that Minecraft isn't less resource intensive than other games
20:49 <+SirCmpwn> Yoshi2: well aren't you special :P
20:49 <+SirCmpwn> is*
20:50 < AnotherOne> minecraft is the only game that crashes with out of memory
20:50 <+SirCmpwn> that's minecraft's fault, not java's
20:51 < AnotherOne> garbage collector is a bad thing
20:52 < AnotherOne> it must be an option
20:53 < AnotherOne> why c#?
20:54 < AnotherOne> SirCmpwn?
20:56 < dav1d> oh yeah another language discussion
20:56 < dav1d> "garbage collector is a bad thing" lul
20:56 < dav1d> did you know that gcc uses a garbage collector?
20:58 <+SirCmpwn> you have to collect your garbage at some point
20:58 < dav1d> also garbage collector can be more efficient
20:58 <+SirCmpwn> AnotherOne: why not C#? It's got DirectX support through XNA (or interop), and OpenGL support through a number of bindings
20:58 < dav1d> than manual memory management (not ram wise but speed)
20:58 <+SirCmpwn> it's also cross platform and such
20:58 < Calinou> lolC#
20:58 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: basically every language got that
20:58 <+SirCmpwn> exactly
20:59 < dav1d> (well not DirectX, but DirectX lol clop Calinou)
20:59 <+SirCmpwn> C# doesn't offer much more that's advantageous, but it's no worse than the other options
20:59 <+SirCmpwn> bastion is a good example, that's written in C# and uses XNA
21:00 < dav1d> bastion is an awesome game :)
21:00 < Calinou> SirCmpwn: how does it work on linux then
21:01 <+SirCmpwn> wine or monogame, not certain which
21:02 < dav1d> DirectX on linux?
21:02 < dav1d> I doubt that, maybe like chromium, send it throw an abstraction layer
21:03 < Calinou> wine converts direct3D to opengl
21:03 < Calinou> it also converts clop to dav1d like he mentioned
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21:11 < AnotherOne> dav1d: any problems?:)
21:13 < AnotherOne> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs-tbqXpdl4
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21:18 < dav1d> AnotherOne: ?
21:18 < AnotherOne> why are you aggressive to me?
21:19 < dav1d> I am not, I simply ask you if you know if e.g. gcc also uses a garbage collector
21:19 < dav1d> saying "x" is stuipid/sucks without a reason is just pointless and will confuse newcomer
21:19 < dav1d> (especially when it is wrong)
21:22 < AnotherOne> gcc garbage collector?
21:22 < AnotherOne> what?
21:22 < dav1d> AnotherOne: yes
21:22 < dav1d> gcc has a builtin garbage collector it uses
21:23 < dav1d> no manual memory management
21:24 < AnotherOne> does it mean gcc compiled c++ applications use some pre-allocated memory pool?
21:25 < dav1d> no
21:25 < dav1d> gcc, the compiler itself
21:52 < AnotherOne> fuck
21:52 < AnotherOne> damn laze
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22:24 < TRocket> would all chunks take up the same amount of space in memory?
22:24 < TRocket> this would make things a lot easier
22:27 < Yoshi2> TRocket: as long as you are saving the same amount of data for each chunk, every chunk should take up the same amount of space
22:27 < Yoshi2> or what do you mean?
22:27 < AnotherOne> heh
22:29 < TRocket> as in, does the size of the uncompressed chunk recieved differ from packet to packet
22:31 < TRocket> Yoshi2:^
22:33 < AnotherOne> so what>
22:33 < AnotherOne> ?
22:36 < Yoshi2> there are some cases where the size of the uncompressed data can differ, for example when there are blocks higher up in the air and the server adds these 16^3 sections to its usual chunk payload as opposed to marking them completly as empty
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22:40 < TRocket> ok
22:41 < TRocket> i guess one "lump" could be a 16x16x16 area and one chunk has an array of pointers to a populated hunk
22:42 < TRocket> or *lump
22:42 < TRocket> or a constant null lump
22:53 < dav1d> I allocated for every chunk the max size possible
23:01 < AnotherOne> cmon dav1d, make one more memory-eating monster
23:01 < dav1d> AnotherOne: you know how much size one chunk takes, right?
23:03 < AnotherOne> i know that it is made of sections
23:03 < dav1d> so, a no
23:03 < AnotherOne> no reason to store empty sections
23:03 < dav1d> so you don't know it
23:03 < dav1d> I expected that already
23:04 < AnotherOne> well, tell me
23:05 < dav1d> get a calculator
23:05 < dav1d> then compare it the size of an average chunk video memory
23:06 < Yoshi2> in the worst case a chunk contains 3 bytes of data per block in addition to one byte biome data per column of blocks, or 256 bytes for the whole chunk
23:07 < Yoshi2> in the worst case a complete chunk with 16 sections can contain 256x16x16 blocks
23:07 < dav1d> now compare that to the memory I need to generated multiple vertices per block side
23:07 < dav1d> (in average 6 vertices)
23:08 < dav1d> each vertex has 40 bytes
23:08 < dav1d> so ram is not the limitation, it definitly isn't and it will never be
23:09 < dav1d> then I rather have the convenience to access blocks directly
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23:13 < AnotherOne> ok
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00:22 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to refactoring [+1/-0/±11] http://git.io/zD8T1A
00:22 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn f085442 - Added opportunity for servers to prevent players from logging in (bans)
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13:17 < AnotherOne> looks like i'm getting addicted to regex
13:19 < Yoshi2> it's all fun and dandy until your regex becomes so complex that it causes a pain in the part of the area you're currently sitting on
13:21 < AnotherOne> true
13:24 < AnotherOne> it already does
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13:43 < TobiX> AnotherOne: Like the RegEx for validating mail addresses? http://ex-parrot.com/~pdw/Mail-RFC822-Address.html
13:55 < AnotherOne> yep, i saw this one:)
13:56 < AnotherOne> an example of overkill
13:57 < dav1d> overkill?
13:57 < dav1d> whatever..
13:57 < AnotherOne> mb wrong phrase
13:57 < AnotherOne> i meant it is a bad use of regex
13:58 < AnotherOne> there are other ways to validate email
13:59 < unnicked593> i.e. loops
14:03 < SinZ> That is a place where regex is a good use, what you on, boi
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14:04 < dav1d> because an email is regular...
14:06 < SinZ> http://pastebin.com/nsWFf83f
14:08 < dx> i read "nsfw" in the url
14:08 < dx> close enough
14:08 < AnotherOne> lol
14:08 < SinZ> it aint safe away from work either
14:09 < dx> also, that email regexp is not a "bad use", it's just that the RFC822 definition is absurdly complex
14:09 < dx> nobody wrote that regexp by hand so it doesn't matter, it's like a different way of generating a parser
14:09 < SinZ> any definition is absurdly complex
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14:10 < SinZ> the definition of a meter is a fun read
14:10 < dx> heh
14:10 < SinZ> the length of the path travelled by light in vacuum during a time interval of 1/299,792,458 of a second.
14:10 < dav1d> lol
14:11 < dav1d> just read it on wikipedia^^
14:11 < dx> that sounds straightforward to me...
14:11 < dx> like a fraction of "light years"
14:12 < SinZ> Kilogram is an odd one, where it is defined to be the same weight as the IPK
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14:12 < SinZ> the pound is defined as exactly 0.45359237 kg
14:14 < AnotherOne> british measuring system is stupid
14:14 < dx> you can define that based on speed of light too
14:15 < dav1d> they had to get a constant value which did fit the current meter already
14:15 < dav1d> (my guess)
14:15 < Fador> http://www.wimp.com/roundestobject/ <- kilogram
14:15 < dav1d> light in vacuum is constant, no matter what happens, and that magic number did fit the meter 
14:16 < AnotherOne> because universe is smart
14:17 < AnotherOne> do you believe in god?
14:18 < dx> wot
14:24 < AnotherOne> so do you?
14:25 < SinZ> only way to believe in god is also believing in the bible, and the bible is full of bs
14:25 < SinZ> or atleast has alot of it
14:25 < dav1d> Fador: interesting, thanks
14:25 < dav1d> 2 mins left :D
14:26 < AnotherOne> SinZ: not true
14:27 < AnotherOne> god != christian god
14:27 < dav1d> this is #mcdevs, the only god here is notch
14:28 < SinZ> and Jeb
14:28 < SinZ> Dinnerbro is still a demigod iirc
14:28 < dav1d> Jeb would be like Jesus
14:28 < AnotherOne> i dont want to live in world with these gods
14:28 < dav1d> and Dinnerbro the holy ghost
14:28 < dav1d> AnotherOne: then /part provides the tool
14:28 < dav1d> to leave this world
14:28 < AnotherOne> wat?
14:29 < SinZ> MC universe has notch as the god, jeb can be jesus, why not
14:29 < SinZ> Dinnerbro and gurm being demi-gods
14:29 < AnotherOne> i want warhammer chaos gods in mc
14:30 < SinZ> Thats evilseph, we don't mention him
14:30 < dav1d> he is a dick
14:31 < AnotherOne> "i will not call that name, or wine in this room will turn to vinegar"
14:31 < SinZ> iirc the potter universe calls him the dark lord
14:32 < dx> wait does this mean evilseph is a fictional character
14:32 < dx> that would explain a lot of things
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14:40 < dx> also, if AnotherOne can bring the topic of religion out of nowhere, i believe it's completely okay for me to ask this:
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14:41 < dx> why is there no command line tool to use ioctl(), and apparently i have to compile a C program every time i want to use one of them?
14:51 < AnotherOne> make it yourself
14:52 < dx> i'm asking "why" because there might be a technical reason for it
14:53 < AnotherOne> hm... what are the problems for you to make it?
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17:09 < thaddcorbett> Hey guys. Anyone around able to give me some simple mincraft advice?
17:09 <+SirCmpwn> thaddcorbett: just ask your question.
17:10 < thaddcorbett> I went off looking for pumpkins and carrots and i wrote down the wrong numbers when i thought I wrote down the corrdinates of my home... and now i'm lost. 
17:10 < thaddcorbett> I have used beds in my journey 
17:10 < thaddcorbett> so if i die i'm not going to end up at my origonal home..
17:11 <+SirCmpwn> this is the wrong channel
17:11 <+SirCmpwn> go to #minecraft
17:11 < thaddcorbett> Serious? sorry i must have read the channel name wrong.
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17:11 <+SirCmpwn> this is for minecraft development, people who write software related to minecraft
17:11 <+sadimusi> SirCmpwn: do you always have to be so hostile?
17:11 <+SirCmpwn> sadimusi: that was not hostile at all, it was just straightforward
17:12 <+sadimusi> you could have helped him in two sentences
17:12 <+SirCmpwn> I have no clue how he's supposed to find his home now
17:13 <+sadimusi> the world's spawn point might be a good place to start looking
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17:13 <+SirCmpwn> well, in any case, I didn't know offhand, no one else appeared to be around, and now he's in #minecraft, who will tell him that
17:14 <+SirCmpwn> "why do you have to be so hostile" -> why do you assume I'm being hostile?
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17:16 <+sadimusi> this might have been a light case, but you're often scaring off new visitors
17:16 <+SirCmpwn> I have done no such thing since joining again
17:16 <+SirCmpwn> this wasn't the place to get help for that, so I told him a better alternative
17:17 <+sadimusi> sure, whatever. I really didn't mean to get into an argument about this
17:18 <+SirCmpwn> then maybe you shouldn't have been so accusatory
17:18 <+SirCmpwn> I assumed that I was invited back in because this sort of thing was behind us
17:19 <+sadimusi> I had nothing to do with this decision
17:20 <+SirCmpwn> "us" as a whole, sadimusi
17:20 <+SirCmpwn> in other words, I assumed that squabbling between myself and various channel users was behind us
17:25 < unnicked593> sadimusi is bad op
17:31 < jast> it's good cholesterol... but it spreads like bad cholesterol!
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17:56 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 2 commits to master [+1/-0/±5] http://git.io/Ujlz4w
17:56 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath dcef9f2 - Fixed sprinting
17:56 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath e104d57 - Redid metadata making it work across entities and items
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18:13 < barneygale> SirCmpwn: you tried to scare off a dude a day or two ago :P
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18:14 < barneygale> also unnicked593 why are you still here?
18:15 <+SirCmpwn> I suggested that he look into an existing minecraft library that could accomplish his needs
18:15 <+Prf_Jakob> barneygale: please don't do say things like that, doesn't help us at all.
18:15 <+SirCmpwn> is that scaring people off?
18:15 <+SirCmpwn> what happened to the big banner on the wiki's home page that was meant to scare off new programmers, anyway
18:15 < barneygale> SirCmpwn: He was asking questions about writing his own protocol implementation, not using someone else's
18:16 < barneygale> And he said he was doing it for fun / the experience
18:16 <+SirCmpwn> which is a bad thing to do it for, considering the kind of experience you'd get working with the minecraft protocol
18:16 < barneygale> I'd imagine the a majority of regular #mcdevs contributors started out like that
18:16 <+Prf_Jakob> barneygale: yet if they didn't redo things over and over again, we might actually have a fairly competent server.
18:17 <+Prf_Jakob> or client
18:17 < barneygale> I really doubt SirCmpwn's input has any impact on that one way or the other
18:18 < barneygale> I said to the guy "are you doing this for a server, or a client? Or just for fun?"
18:18 < barneygale> And he answered the latter.
18:20 < barneygale> Obviously it's advisable to use existing protocol libraries if your goal is the final product, and not the experience. I've written protocol libraries myself for that purpose.
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--- Day changed mar. juin 11 2013
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00:04 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2035 7 files : Preliminary Mojang account support (untested).
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00:23 < Not-001> [MinersLauncher] fragmer pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/hGFoMQ
00:23 < Not-001> [MinersLauncher] fragmer c55c505 - Relaxed regex restriction on direct-connect URLs, to allow emails-as-usernames (for mojanged accounts)
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00:43 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2036 2 files : Fixed an edge case in mojang account handling, for usernames over 13 characters long with more than 9 different domains.
00:44 <+md_5> different domains? wat
00:51 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2037 2 files : Mojanged players' emails are now shown in /Info, to authorized players.
00:52 <+Matvei> md_5, workarounds for Mojang breaking Classic
00:52 <+md_5> what are domains in classic
00:52 <+md_5> how do you have 9
00:52 <+Matvei> months ago, some classic players had their usernames irreversably replaced with email addresses
00:53 <+Matvei> After begging @mollstam for a while, I accepted the fact that it's not getting fixed
00:53 <+Matvei> And made a workaround!
00:53 <+Matvei> To avoid exposing players' email accounts, I strip domain name, e.g. "fragmer@gmail.com" becomes "fragmer@1"
00:54 <+Matvei> So, that's where domains are coming from -- from players who have same email username, but different email domains
00:54 <+Matvei> who become blah@1, blah@2, etc
00:55 <+md_5> <Matvei> months ago, some classic players had their usernames irreversably replaced with email addresses
00:55 <+md_5> how did that happen
00:56 <+Matvei> I wish I knew! Players "upgrading" to mojang account just lost ability to play Classic
00:56 <+md_5>  :|
00:56 <+md_5> has that been fixed?
00:56 <+Matvei> No fix has been attempted by Mojang
00:56 <+md_5> we could always just do a small classic patch
00:56 <+md_5> if you are into that kind of stuff
00:56 <+Matvei> It's a site problem
00:57 <+Matvei> minecraft.net serves emails in place of usernames for a subset of users. It only affects Classic though, so no one cares
00:58 <+Matvei> It's still possible to validate those players' credentials (validation hash uses the email as well). There's just no way to find their real username.
00:58 <+Matvei> So we improvise
00:59 <+md_5> :|
00:59 <+md_5> MOJANG
00:59 <+md_5> did you see they are already making $$$ of scrolls
00:59 <+md_5> what a joke
00:59 <+Matvei> I haven't been following Mojang's side projects
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01:04 <+SirCmpwn> I've asked mollstam several times about the implications for minecraft classic as he's mentioned several updates to minecraft.net and friends
01:05 <+SirCmpwn> it's always just "classic isn't supported and we don't actively prevent our changes from hindering its use"
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02:53 <+md_5> so
02:53 <+md_5> has anyone worked out the new json chat?
02:53 <+md_5> how can I send a plain message through with only text and formatting
02:53 <+md_5> does the new spec even allow 100% custom messages
02:53 <+sadimusi> I think it does
02:54 <+sadimusi> there were some kind of text notes in Dinnerb0ne's preview
02:55 <+sadimusi> it's even on the wiki http://wiki.vg/Pre-release_protocol#Chat_Message_.280x03.29
02:57 <+md_5>    {"text":"§aOld style chat"}
02:57 <+md_5> YES
03:07 < dx> md_5: heh, my exact reaction. no guarantee of having it behave like this forever though
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08:53 < Grum> <+md_5> [04:57:37]    {"text":"§aOld style chat"} <-- this will only work for now
08:53 < Grum> we'll end up stopping to use color-chars in general soon
08:54 <+sadimusi> Grum: but {"text": "foo"} will work forever, right?
08:54 < Grum> we'll see ;)
08:54 <+sadimusi> :)
08:54 < Grum> forever is a long time!
08:55 < SinZ> do you have plans to remove it then
08:55 <+sadimusi> s/forever/foreseeable future/
08:56 < Grum> its not even finished
08:56 < Grum> so we'll see
08:56 <+sadimusi> Grum: if you're removing all the color codes, will there be a new way to color player names or will you just drop this feature?
08:56 < Grum> sadimusi: its not a feature
08:56 <+sadimusi> sure it is :P
08:56 < Grum> nope its not
08:56 < Grum> because there is no way to actually do it
08:57 <+sadimusi> besides the lack of skins I don't see an issue with it
08:57 < Grum> lack of skins?
08:57 <+sadimusi> well, my skin won't load if my name is §asadimusi
08:58 < Grum> oh
08:58 < Grum> see, its not a feature ;)
08:58 < SinZ> it is a feature with side-effects
08:59 < Thinkofdeath> I think minecraft strips colour codes from names when loading the skin
08:59 < SinZ> nup
09:00 <+ammar2> yup
09:00 <+ammar2> it was added recently, maybe 1-2 updates ago
09:00 < Grum> it shouldn't have to, because names cannot have it ;)
09:00 <+sadimusi> so it is a feature :)
09:00 < Grum> i'll remove the code
09:00 <+sadimusi> :P
09:00 < dx> lol.
09:01 < Grum> done!
09:01  * sadimusi loves to drop in on servers in offline-mode as §zsadimusi
09:01 < Thinkofdeath> Oops... I may of just broke TagAPI :P
09:02 <+ammar2> Grum: job well done
09:02  * ammar2 pats Grum on the back
09:02 < dx> rip tagapi
09:03 < AlphaBlend> ;o
09:03 < AlphaBlend> so no way to color text in-game with color codes
09:04 < AlphaBlend> WELL THEN, there goes a small bit of our featureset!
09:04 < AlphaBlend> no way anymore*
09:04 < Grum> you just didn't deserve it!
09:04  * AlphaBlend slaps Grum
09:04 < AlphaBlend> hey man
09:04 < AlphaBlend> we liked elmo
09:04 < AlphaBlend> we really did
09:04 < jast> this is why we can't have good things
09:05 < dx> mbaxter_: remember when you said you didn't feel like adding scoreboard support for tagapi? well you don't need to bother about that stuff anymore
09:05 < AlphaBlend> you went through our tutorial and liked it
09:05 < jast> we don't deserve 'em
09:05 < AlphaBlend> NOW LOOK WHAT YOU DID?
09:05 < AlphaBlend> aw man, I need to hunt you down and give you a TNT cake with an actual fuse that looks like it's being eaten by fire, and scare the pants off you
09:06 < dx> lolwat
09:06 < Grum> ;D
09:06 < AlphaBlend> you guys WILL have a replacement to coloring text though, i hope
09:06 < dx> yes, json
09:06 < AlphaBlend> our ChatColor enum has been there for the longest time!
09:06 < dx> json everywhere
09:06 < dx> you better like it
09:07 < AlphaBlend> i hope i do
09:07 <+sadimusi> is it currently possible to color the motd?
09:07 <+sadimusi> if yes, what'll happen to that?
09:07 <+ammar2> yes
09:07 < Grum> chatcolor will die!
09:07 < AlphaBlend> Grum: Also, server has option to send client light updates = our old custom light feature resurrected
09:07 < AlphaBlend> yes yes?
09:07 < Thinkofdeath> Grum: Is there a chance we could get hex colours support in the json version? {"color":"FF0000","text":"hey"}
09:07 < Grum> Thinkofdeath: maybe
09:08 <+ammar2> also possible to colour kick messages and those little flash messages next to the logo in the client
09:08 < Thinkofdeath> Also what happens to coloured item names?
09:08  * md_5 puts knife in mouth and gives evil smile to #mcdevs 
09:08 <+md_5> did you guys see dinnerbros tweet btw? did I show it?
09:08 < dx> hello md_5
09:08 < AlphaBlend> ?
09:08 < AlphaBlend> that's a rather generic statement md_5
09:08 < AlphaBlend> yes i've seen many tweets from him, but i don't think you linked any of them :P
09:09 <+md_5> https://twitter.com/Dinnerbone/status/343449857182289920
09:09 < Grum> its true!
09:09 < AlphaBlend> oh
09:09 < AlphaBlend> meh
09:09 < dx> subtweets
09:09 < AlphaBlend> maybe your balancing is a little off balance :(
09:09 <+md_5> highly relevant to the discussion we had
09:10 < Grum> AlphaBlend: why?
09:11 < AlphaBlend> Grum: Well, tbh, I haven't messed with potions too much, but I can imagine nerfing a few things 50% of their original abilities might be offbalancing it
09:11 < Grum> so, eventhough you've never used them you claim that this is an issue? :D
09:11 < Grum> amaaaazing
09:11 < AlphaBlend> and the food thing reducing hunger? where'd that come from?
09:11 < Grum> from logic?
09:11 < Grum> why would it be free to heal up
09:11 < Grum> *forever*
09:12 < AlphaBlend> hmm
09:12 < Grum> you can just stand still and take punches
09:12 < Grum> and you'd heal up *forever*
09:12  * md_5 wonders if the dimensions field in the login packet has been changed to an int
09:12 < AlphaBlend> hmm
09:12 < Grum> it hasnt nor wont
09:12 < Grum> errr
09:12 < Grum> nor will;)
09:12 <+ammar2> Grum: is the json sent over the wire minified
09:12 < Grum> no
09:13 < dx> wat
09:13 < dx> the correct answer to that question is "yes, duh, what else would it be?"
09:13 < dx> not "no"
09:13 < dx> try again
09:13 < dx> are you saying it's pretty printed?
09:13 < Grum> no, the answer is: no, why the fuck would you do it
09:14 <+md_5> ................................................................
09:14 <+md_5> more like why the fuck would you pretty print
09:14 < Grum> who says we do?
09:14 <+md_5> you
09:14 <+md_5> <ammar2> Grum: is the json sent over the wire minified
09:14 < Grum> quote. NOW>
09:14 <+md_5> <Grum> no
09:14 < Grum> so, that means prettyfied?
09:14 < Grum> aaah fail logic again
09:14 <+md_5> well there are only 2 options there
09:14 < dx> json has two states: minified and pretty printed. one has no additional whitespace, the other does
09:14 < Grum> nope
09:14 <+md_5> its either got spaces or newlines or it doesnt
09:14 < AlphaBlend> Grum: Maybe player should get hungry while standing still and then eating food doesn't take any hunger at all
09:14 < Grum> it has far more stages
09:14 <+ammar2> lol, anyway. Moving on the important stuff. Grum, could you spin dinnerbro around like this so we have an updated gif http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/5/4201/297qrp.gif
09:15 < Grum> *states
09:15 < AlphaBlend> meh, i'm stuck in the past topic
09:15 <+md_5> 1 space, 2 spaces, 3 spaces ..... 999 spaces, 1000 spaces
09:15 < AlphaBlend> just jogging this in my head XD
09:15 < dx> 1000 spaces of pretty print on the wall, minify one down, 999 spaces of pretty print on the wall...
09:15 < Grum> md_5: no idea, from what i saw it doesnt have newlines when serialized but its also not 'minified'
09:15 < AlphaBlend> Amaranth: LOL YES THAT!
09:15 < dx> what's your definition of "minified"?
09:15 < AlphaBlend> ...
09:16 < AlphaBlend> OOPS!
09:16 <+ammar2> Amaranth: stop being me
09:16 < AlphaBlend> ammar2: LOL YES THAT
09:16 < AlphaBlend> i have the AlphaModder syndrome!
09:16 < Grum> dx: not compressed, not a single byte of data wasted if not 'needed'
09:17 < Grum> and it is not that
09:17 < Grum> yet its also not 'pretty printed'
09:18 < Grum> also, again, we're talking about *chat* which is ........ hardly anything on protocol level
09:20 < Thinkofdeath> To be fair any wasted bytes in the chat gets multipled by 2 (thanks to minecraft strings)
09:20 <+SirCmpwn> oh, we're talking about JSON chat again?
09:20 <+SirCmpwn> terrible idea.
09:20 <+ammar2> thanks, utf-16
09:20 <+ammar2> Grum: what was the reason for not using DataOutputStream's convenient writeUTF method which does utf8?
09:20 <+SirCmpwn> less terrible if Mojang gives up the lang files with a nice permissive license
09:21 < Grum> ammar2: no idea, that is what i would have used :/
09:21 < Grum> SirCmpwn: 'gives up the lang files' ?
09:21 < dx> lol, nobody remembers that reason
09:21 <+SirCmpwn> otherwise, distribution of lang files will be required for third party clients or anything resembling one
09:21 <+ammar2> well with all the breaking changes you're doing already
09:21 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: indeed
09:21 <+ammar2> I'm sure you can fix that minor gripe
09:21 < Thinkofdeath> ammar2: It would brake the server list ping if changed
09:21 < Grum> SirCmpwn: 'gives up' ?
09:21 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: "under a permissive license"
09:21 <+ammar2> Thinkofdeath: fix it everywhere but that then :P
09:21 < Grum> wut?
09:21 <+SirCmpwn> forfeit copyright to the text
09:21 < Grum> its just fucking text O.o
09:22 <+SirCmpwn> so are books
09:22 < Grum> yes, and you can just make your own book
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09:22 <+SirCmpwn> there's only so many ways to say "player has joined the server"
09:22 < Grum> as you can make your own lang file
09:22 < Grum> we'll copyright the lefthand side kk?
09:22 < Grum> or all odd chars
09:22 <+SirCmpwn> wait, aren't keys on the left
09:22 < Grum> or even, not sure which one has more
09:23 <+Amaranth> The server knows the client's locale, it should just manage localization itself and send final strings :P
09:23 <+SirCmpwn> ^
09:23 <+SirCmpwn> I wrote up a document describing this process
09:23 < Grum> Amaranth: it wont soon
09:23 < dx> apparently doing string formatting for every player is an extremely expensive operation
09:23 <+SirCmpwn> https://gist.github.com/SirCmpwn/c5b3cd93cd424f17edf4
09:23 < Grum> Amaranth: the server has no business knowing the clients locale, and we're ripping that out
09:23 <+ammar2> dx: very much so compared to the cheap json encoding
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09:23 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: wat
09:24 <+SirCmpwn> JSON encoding is anything but cheap
09:24 <+SirCmpwn> unless they do it in a really stupid way
09:24 < Grum> which we're not
09:24 < Thinkofdeath> Formatting per a player is what my server does currently (and my bukkit plugin) 
09:24 <+Amaranth> Grum: You're going to make everything server side that displays text require a client component too?
09:24 < Grum> we've made our own library, in the slowest way possible.
09:24 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: my wat was in response to your "server has no business knowing the clients locale"
09:24 < Grum> Amaranth: localized text? yes
09:25 < dx> Amaranth: only vanilla translated strings, the bukkit stuff is left undefined
09:25 <+Amaranth> Well, I guess I'm glad I never put any serious work into a localization framework for bukkit
09:25 <+Amaranth> Beyond a few hours of thought
09:25 <+ammar2> Amaranth: did you also hear the good news about ChatColor
09:25 <+Amaranth> Sure
09:26 <+SirCmpwn> ammar2: I didn't, enlighten me
09:26 < AlphaBlend> ^
09:26 <+ammar2> SirCmpwn: ChatColor goes poof
09:26 < Grum> by §
09:26 <+SirCmpwn> what is "ChatColor"
09:26 < Grum> err *bye ;)
09:26 < AlphaBlend> lol
09:26 <+SirCmpwn> that fancy character Grum just used
09:26 <+SirCmpwn> ?
09:26 < Grum> will just be printed soon as that character
09:26 <+ammar2> SirCmpwn: everything using the section symbol, motds, head tags etc
09:26 <+SirCmpwn> I would be pretty damn happy if colors could be #123456
09:26 < dx> ChatColor is the bukkit class that implements § based colors
09:26 <+SirCmpwn> dx: hey, mine is named that, too
09:27 <+SirCmpwn> how interesting
09:27 < dx> lol
09:27 <+ammar2> item names, kick messages. Really fun breaking change
09:27 <+Amaranth> It's not a valid name anymore though since it is more than colors
09:27 < Grum> fun fact, in our codebase its ChatFormatting :p
09:27 < dx> note how Grum doesn't consider bukkit his codebase anymore
09:27 <+SirCmpwn> yeah, I was thinking about changing it
09:27 < Grum> dx: havent worked on it for over a year
09:28 < Grum> not sure why you'd expect something else
09:28 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: so why shouldn't the server know the client's locale
09:28 < Grum> SirCmpwn: because it has no business knowing it?
09:28 < AlphaBlend> Grum: So to send colored chat by sending text, how is this going to work? I'm sorry, but I'm still confused over this :(
09:28 <+SirCmpwn> potential use: plugin that translates player chat to the user's locale with google translate or something
09:28 < Grum> nor a use for knowing it
09:28 < Grum> SirCmpwn: ...... O.o
09:28 < Grum> so the locale of a user now suddenly is their native language? :(
09:28 <+SirCmpwn> economy servers showing cash in the user's currency, or with the user's preferred number delimiter (i.e. $1.00 versus $1,00)
09:29 <+SirCmpwn> that's how they change the locale string, isn't it?
09:29 <+ammar2> Grum: not necessarily native, but generally their preferred language
09:29 < Grum> i actually agree with the last use case, i guess the client can keep sending it :p
09:29 <+SirCmpwn> and if the server already has it...
09:30 <+SirCmpwn> my gist becomes relevant again
09:30 < Grum> not really
09:30 < Grum> we're removing all but the enUS locale from the server anyhow
09:30 -!- Calinou [~Calinou@unaffiliated/calinou] has joined #mcdevs
09:30 <+SirCmpwn> why even keep that if the client is responsible for it all
09:30 < Grum> because the server is a client too?
09:31 <+sadimusi> SirCmpwn: the client could also format numbers...
09:31 < Grum> (logging == client)
09:31 <+SirCmpwn> sadimusi: right, horrible json
09:31 <+Amaranth> Grum: You realize that means adding or changing a locale string requires a protocol bump, right?
09:31 < Grum> Amaranth: not really
09:31 <+Amaranth> Or rather it should if you were strictly versioning
09:31 <+SirCmpwn> they choose 8 bit numbers to represent their protocol versions
09:31 <+SirCmpwn> they only have a couple years left
09:32 <+SirCmpwn> surely they'll up the bit length soon
09:32 < Thinkofdeath> SirCmpwn: They just reset it before
09:32 <+SirCmpwn> did it already overflow?
09:32 <+SirCmpwn> messy.
09:33 <+ammar2> SirCmpwn: + snapshots burn up like 3-10 proto versions
09:33 <+SirCmpwn> mm
09:33 < Grum> we'll just make it a long ;)
09:33 < Grum> and we'll send it with every packet
09:33 < Grum> to be sure
09:33 <+SirCmpwn> send it with a different bit length in every packet
09:33 <+SirCmpwn> draw inspiration from your 3D coordinate data types
09:34 < Grum> yeah we'll truncated based on the amount of packets send
09:34 < Grum> SirCmpwn: that stupid choice actually gives us quite some bugs
09:34 <+SirCmpwn> should really be a double, anyway. Snapshots can be fractions
09:34 < dx> i'm not sure if doubles provide enough precision
09:34 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: so how about that protocol rewrite I recall hearing talk of last year
09:34 < Grum> i'll somewhere after 1.6 will be changing the coordinate system to be integer based
09:34 <+Amaranth> I think the dissonance here is we're thinking up how a protocol with multiple implementations would be defined
09:34 < Grum> it'll be SO MUCH FUN
09:34 < Thinkofdeath> Grum: You could just use the version string that is sent with for the server list ping
09:35 <+SirCmpwn> Thinkofdeath: you can't compare 1.5.2 to 1.5.3 sanely
09:35 < Grum> oh and also break *everything* ;P
09:35 <+ammar2> Thinkofdeath: but version change isn't necessarily proto change
09:35 < Thinkofdeath> ammar2: True
09:35 -!- ranie [~rramiso@124.6.182.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
09:35 < Grum> Amaranth: which is why sending the translatable key is perfectly cross-version-compatible
09:35 <+SirCmpwn> speaking of server list ping, Grum: would you kindly change that useless field the client sends on 0xFE to be the protocol number
09:36 <+Amaranth> Grum: Right, because you don't care about other implementations and/or are hostile to them
09:36 < Grum> Amaranth: why would it be hostile?
09:36 <+SirCmpwn> as it stands now, that packet breaks the ability for servers to support several versions concurrently
09:36 < Grum> the only thing we need is a proper version of the server being send over earlier
09:36 < Calinou> 1.5.3? O_o
09:36 < Grum> rather than protocol version
09:36 <+SirCmpwn> Calinou: I just pulled a number out of my ass
09:37 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: I make that particular suggestion because it's easy and doesn't break anything
09:37 < Calinou> ah
09:37 < Grum> SirCmpwn: any change breaks things
09:38 <+SirCmpwn> that's silly and you know it
09:38 -!- TRocket [~TRocket@213.205.229.39] has joined #mcdevs
09:38 < Grum> SirCmpwn: also true
09:38 <+SirCmpwn> what breaks in this scenario?
09:38 <+SirCmpwn> does the vanilla server actually do something with that 1 the client sends it
09:39 < Grum> oh it will break some random gsp that has shit code and depends on it
09:39 < Grum> so unless we *WILL* be using it, its not really that 'useful' for us to do
09:40 <+SirCmpwn> it's use to you is comparable to all the stuff you've added for map makers lately
09:40 < Grum> i'm not dbone.
09:40 <+SirCmpwn> vanilla has no use for these things, but it is of great use to the community at large
09:40 < Grum> i rather not waste time on shit like that
09:40 <+SirCmpwn> "you" in that sentence refers to Mojang
09:41 < Grum> did you see how hard i break minecraft? i have another 2-3 days of fixing to do .. and the snapshot is thursday ....
09:41 < Grum> and this *has to be in*
09:41  * AlphaBlend pats Grum on the back
09:41 < Grum> my current compile has about 250 deprecated warnings and and equal amount of compilation errors
09:41 < dx> 04:36 < Grum> oh it will break some random gsp that has shit code and depends on it
09:41 < dx> what
09:41 < dx> he was suggesting changing what the client sends
09:42 < AlphaBlend> If only you guys had an extra hand... *wink wink*
09:42 < AlphaBlend> AH CRUD
09:42  * AlphaBlend runs off behind a creeper
09:42 <+SirCmpwn> what are you putting in on thursday?
09:42 < dx> clients can keep sending that magic number "1" after 0xFE if they want
09:42 <+SirCmpwn> I hope it's a new lighting system
09:42 < Grum> SirCmpwn: nope
09:42 < AlphaBlend> ^ lmao
09:42 < Calinou> Grum: just a suggestion, it would be nice if planting crops made less loud sounds
09:42 < Calinou> it gets annoying :<
09:42 < Grum> given up on that for now
09:42 < Calinou> and it's annoying to have to disable sound too
09:42 < Grum> Calinou: you can do that when i am done with this
09:42 < Calinou> (no hotkey to do it)
09:42 <+SirCmpwn> or more accurately, I hope it's anything I've hoped for protocol-wise since I started hacking away at Minecraft
09:42 <+SirCmpwn> oh, resource packs
09:43 <+SirCmpwn> meh
09:43 < Grum> actually you can do that already in the snapshots, just dump the soundfile at the right location in a texturepack
09:43 < dx> Calinou: ...that's rather offtopic
09:43 < Grum> SirCmpwn: 'meh' maybe, but 100% needed for any future
09:43 < AlphaBlend> SirCmpwn: There are issues on our redmine I don't want to do unless I can dedicate time to thinking of how to do them properly and accurately and make the most use out of them. Mojang feels that way about lighting probably...
09:43 <+SirCmpwn> I don't like the naming convention for new texture packs
09:43 <+SirCmpwn> I presume resource packs are compatible?
09:43 <+SirCmpwn> comparable*
09:43 <+md_5> 0xFE screws over backwards compat , yeah
09:43 < Grum> wha?
09:43 < Grum> we're overhauling *all* of the names of *all* resources in the resourcepacks
09:43 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: magic strings bad, block IDs good
09:44 < Grum> fuck ids
09:44 < Grum> seriously fuck ids
09:44 <+SirCmpwn> why fuck IDs
09:44 <+SirCmpwn> they are cold and unloving
09:44 < AlphaBlend> if everything was done as it was intended before, there'd be no use to break compatibility ;/
09:44 <+SirCmpwn> fuck girls
09:44 < dx> will chunk data include strings for each block then?
09:44 < Grum> poor 69 :(
09:44 < AlphaBlend> Grum: :(
09:44 < Grum> dx: eventually
09:44 < dx> ...i was going to say that it wasn't a serious question
09:44 < AlphaBlend> Grum: Sometimes I am weary of how much you intend to please the modding community >.>
09:44 <+SirCmpwn> dx: I'm going to convince myself he was joking
09:45 < Grum> AlphaBlend: i'm sorry that i do not cater to your specific needs >.>
09:45 < AlphaBlend> Grum: the ID eventual deprecation is one of the reasons I am weary :(
09:45 < Grum> SirCmpwn: we'll have a 'typestring->id' mapping eventually
09:45 < Grum> AlphaBlend: it *has* to happen
09:45 <+SirCmpwn> magic strings make me very sad
09:45 < AlphaBlend> i know...
09:45 < Grum> else you get into the same shit that the current client modding is in
09:45 <+SirCmpwn> too many of them as it is
09:45 < AlphaBlend> yeah, conflicts
09:45 < Grum> 'omg id clashes' ... 'omg 50kb of config to get non-clashing id-assignments'
09:45 < Calinou> dx: no u
09:45 < AlphaBlend> i know, there's really no alternatives around it really
09:46 < Calinou> this is a game, not your favorite python project
09:46 < Grum> so again, fuck ids; you will never see ids in the api
09:46 < Grum> you won't be able to request them, you wont be able to assign them
09:46 <+SirCmpwn> so they'll be assigned by the server and the client will be informed of them
09:46 < AlphaBlend> UNLESS, you have a mapping of mod name to IDs
09:46 <+SirCmpwn> and you won't be putting strings in chunk packets
09:46 < AlphaBlend> right?
09:46 < Grum> ids are purely a serialization optimization that is used to send stuff: 1) to disk; 2) to the client
09:46 <+SirCmpwn> what happens when you install another mod and open an old world and cobblestone has been reassigned to prevent conflict
09:47 < Grum> and that is what they will be
09:47 < Grum> SirCmpwn: the datafiles will define the mapping
09:47 <+SirCmpwn> ah.
09:47 < Grum> not the mods
09:47 <+SirCmpwn> well, it's not a horrible solution, but it's ugly
09:47 < Grum> ugly?
09:47 < Grum> its the only way
09:47 <+SirCmpwn> I despise adding more constant strings to my code
09:47 -!- TRocket [~TRocket@213.205.229.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
09:47 < Grum> why would you add strings?
09:48 < Grum> you register your block under a unique name
09:48 < AlphaBlend> Grum: Question, what about mapping a mod/plugin name with an ID set? That would work, wouldn't it?
09:48 < Grum> you can get the proper object from the registry and you will just keep that thing referenced in your code
09:48 <+SirCmpwn> I'm drawing my inferences from the new texture packs
09:48 <+SirCmpwn> where the textures are "lava.png" and such
09:48 < Grum> SirCmpwn: lava_still and lava_flowing now though ;)
09:48 <+SirCmpwn> merely an example
09:48 < Grum> AlphaBlend: there is no mapping you can control *ever*
09:49 < Grum> SirCmpwn: eventually you'd refer to the texture from a blockdefinition by name
09:49 < AlphaBlend> i know, it might change, then you have a useless map that doesn't mean anything anymore
09:49 < Grum> you can pick the name, sane names would be nicer obviously
09:49 <+SirCmpwn> back to JSON chat, I just realized yet another drawback
09:50 < Grum> why have a 0xAC2B634 if you can have "my_new_block.png" ?
09:50 <+SirCmpwn> servers who want to say "Player has bit the dust" instead of the vanilla death message or what not will no longer be able to
09:50 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: ugly magic strings
09:50 < Grum> SirCmpwn: they can, you can just send a non-translatable text
09:50 < Grum> SirCmpwn: no, filenames within your resourcepack
09:50 < Grum> nothing 'magic'
09:50 < Grum> just 'named resources'
09:50 <+SirCmpwn> or, you could do something like my solution, and have translatable strings on the server
09:50 <+md_5> Amaranth did you ever manage to work around this jline bug? http://screencloud.net/v/1Sfd
09:50 <+SirCmpwn> problem is eliminated, not brushed aside
09:51 < Grum> or having translatable strings on the server is stupid? because it has a fuckton of downsides
09:51 <+SirCmpwn> name them
09:51 < Grum> 1) it doesnt get updated that often; 2) it isnt extendable; 3) the server has to know of things it shouldnt have to; 4) totally most important; cpu usage wasting
09:51 < Grum> you cannot use a language the server doesnt have ... which is stupid
09:52 < Grum> you cannot update a language unless you fix up the server
09:52 <+SirCmpwn> 1) what doesn't get updated? Lang files? They update nearly every release
09:52 < Grum> so what if it has a typo?
09:52 < Grum> you have to wait until the next release?
09:52 < Grum> or just start the launcher again and i'll download it?
09:52 <+SirCmpwn> you update your server
09:52 < Grum> *it'll
09:52 <+SirCmpwn> or the server updates itself, I don't care
09:52 <+SirCmpwn> somethings gotta be updated, why does it matter which?
09:52 <+SirCmpwn> 2) It's more extensible on the client, sure, but the server loses a lot
09:52 < Grum> or we just send the keys+args to the client and you can use your own locale
09:53 < Grum> SirCmpwn: the server loses nothing
09:53 <+SirCmpwn> 3) we agreed that telling the server locale was valuable
09:53 < Grum> absolutely *NOTHING*
09:53 <+SirCmpwn> <SirCmpwn> servers who want to say "Player has bit the dust" instead of the vanilla death message or what not will no longer be able to
09:53 <+ammar2> the server could easily fetch key value translations from a mojang server through the web, updates are pretty much irrelevant
09:53 < Grum> you just send text!?
09:53 < Grum> i dont see the issue
09:53 -!- ranie [~rramiso@124.6.182.55] has joined #mcdevs
09:53 < Grum> you have two kinds of 'texts' one is translatable, one is plain
09:53 <+SirCmpwn> 4) I'll laugh at you if you pretend encoding JSON is cheaper than string formatting again
09:53 < Grum> the translatable sends a key+args, the plain one ... plain text
09:53 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: you can translate the "untranslatable" text in my scenario
09:53 <+SirCmpwn> not in yours
09:53 < Grum> you can?
09:53 <+SirCmpwn> yup
09:54 < Grum> 3) we agreed on the server still having the locale-data
09:54 <+SirCmpwn> because the server has the client locale and is translating for them
09:54 < Grum> so you can still do whatever the fuck you want
09:54 < Grum> and just not send a translatable-text but a pre-translated plain text message
09:54 <+SirCmpwn> perhaps, but that's messy
09:54 < Grum> omg solved and much better.
09:54 < Grum> no its not.
09:54 <+SirCmpwn> half the stuff mods do is messy and hacky anyway
09:54 < Grum> it is exactly what you would do now
09:54 < dx> [x] achievement unlocked, get Grum to change something based on your suggestions
09:54 <+SirCmpwn> mixing server translated and client translated text is messy by all definitions
09:55 < Grum> dx: happened 25 mins ago though
09:55 < dx> (get the client to send the server the locale info)
09:55 < dx> Grum: yeah
09:55 <+SirCmpwn> *get Grum not to change something
09:55 <+SirCmpwn> ;)
09:55 < Grum> SirCmpwn: ... so do not do it? i mean you are making it messy, not me
09:55 < Thinkofdeath> Can we send a resource pack with the language strings from the server to the client?
09:55 < Grum> Thinkofdeath: yes
09:55 < Grum> i broke it now, but yes
09:55 <+SirCmpwn> you're so concerned about modders, Grum, then help them out by making good design choices
09:55 < Thinkofdeath> Ah awesome
09:56 < Grum> SirCmpwn: you are thinking of 1 week ahead, i'm thinking of what the 'plugin api in the far future will look like'
09:56 <+SirCmpwn> sending resource packs with language strings to the client helps a lot, though
09:56 <+SirCmpwn> can the client refuse these language strings?
09:56 <+SirCmpwn> like they can texture packs
09:56 < Grum> yes
09:56 <+SirCmpwn> so every time a server wants to customize a message, the client has to agree to it?
09:57 < Grum> it has to agree to get data from the server yes
09:57 <+SirCmpwn> note: nearly every server customizes these messages
09:57 < Thinkofdeath> Could we mark it as required and disconnect them if they say no?
09:57 < dx> "plugin api in the far future", noted.
09:57 <+SirCmpwn> the plugin API is years away
09:57 < Grum> dx: far is relative ;)
09:57 <+ammar2> if you send it as a resource pack SirCmpwn, presumably you can just send it as plain text without the special translation
09:57 < Grum> SirCmpwn: i really do not see the problem
09:57 <+SirCmpwn> ammar2: true, but we aren't notified of the users response to our texture pack offering
09:57 < Grum> you either: 1) have the translations on the server for the things you want to send and know the clients locale and know the client doesnt have the translations so you just send the fucking pre-translated text
09:57 <+ammar2> Grum: 1 year and counting :)
09:58 < Grum> 2) you know the client has the locale and the translation so you send the pre-translation (not -ed) string.
09:58 < Grum> its not hard?
09:58 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: you've convinced me that it will be possible for servers to customize text, but it's still messy and that's not the only thing that's wrong with it
09:58 < Grum> the onyl thing you need is the client telling you the locale
09:58 < Grum> i agree that is very useful to do
09:58 < Grum> so we'll not strip that
09:58 < Grum> all problems solved
09:58 <+SirCmpwn> all is a little liberal, here
09:58 < Grum> SirCmpwn: you have full control from the server
09:59 < Grum> text-wise
09:59 < Grum> you can do whatever the fuck you want
09:59 <+SirCmpwn> as far as what the user sees and what the server can do, it's fine
09:59 < Grum> if you want to use the predefined texts, you can use that
09:59 <+SirCmpwn> but the choice to use JSON is still bad for reasons I haven't heard challenged
09:59 < Grum> i mean, i might even make a debug-locale
09:59 < Grum> where i just do: key=key, %s, %s, %s ...
10:00 < Grum> so i can see the raw data the server send me
10:00 < Grum> well 'raw' ;P
10:00 < Grum> SirCmpwn: json was the easy way
10:00 <+SirCmpwn> the wrong way
10:00 < Grum> remember we actually want to push some shit out?
10:00 < Grum> then what is 'the right way' ?
10:00 < Grum> bson? our own custom format?
10:00 <+SirCmpwn> so don't fix what isn't broken
10:00 < Grum> nbt? (HURRRL)(
10:00 <+SirCmpwn> you want to push stuff out, don't waste time on things that are a waste of time
10:00 < Grum> it *is* broken, there is no sane way to send translatable data over
10:00 <+SirCmpwn> there is!
10:00 <+SirCmpwn> the server has the bloody client locale
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10:01 <+SirCmpwn> that'd take 10 minutes to implement, making the server use that locale
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10:01 <+SirCmpwn> your JSON crap has taken you hours
10:01 < Grum> .......................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
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10:01 < AlphaBlend> this is not going good
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10:01 <+ammar2> Grum: please, stop.
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10:01 < dx> is he on a period or what
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10:01 < Calinou> a mojangsta spams
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10:01 < Calinou> :-D
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10:01 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: enough, please
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10:01 < Grum> .............................................................................................................
10:01 < Grum> oh that was a bit longer than intended haha :p
10:01 -!- Grum [~grum@irc.grum.nl] has left #mcdevs []
10:02 < Calinou> period period period period...
10:02 < dx> loling
10:02 -!- Grum [~grum@irc.grum.nl] has joined #mcdevs
10:02 < AlphaBlend> >.> i think he's trying to make a good point about something ;\
10:02 < Grum> woops
10:02 < Grum> that was a bit too long >.>
10:02 <+SirCmpwn> a great number of points, actually
10:02 <+ammar2> "woops"
10:02 < Calinou> gotta like how you're not going to be banned
10:02 < AlphaBlend> although i know not of much JSON, so I really can't input much about it
10:02 < Grum> hehe was just intended to be 1 line; forgot this client wraps very well and not truncates =)
10:02 <+ammar2> Calinou: ban the only mojangsta who talks around here?
10:02 <+ammar2> Grum: lolwat
10:02 <+SirCmpwn> AlphaBlend: https://gist.github.com/Dinnerbone/5631634
10:02 < Grum> le'sorry for that ;)_
10:02 < dx> ...:V
10:03 < dx> Grum: what the hell was that for
10:03 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: before your dot parade, I had said that using the client-provided locale and translating on the server is far easier. 10 minutes of work, versus the hours you've spent on JSON
10:03 < Grum> actually its stupidly limiting
10:03 < Calinou> ammar2: he spammed
10:03 < Calinou> so he shud be bannd!!!!!!1
10:03 <+SirCmpwn> do explain, Grum
10:03 < Grum> i accidently pasted a bit too many dots :P
10:03 < Calinou> #averagestaff
10:03 <+SirCmpwn> what limitations have you overcome with JSON
10:04 < Grum> i tried to quit the channel when i realized but it kinda didnt let me >.>
10:04 < Grum> SirCmpwn: complex nesting
10:04 <+SirCmpwn> elaborate on this idea
10:04 < AlphaBlend> SirCmpwn: I'm merely referring to spontaneous chat from players sending symbols, does that apply anymore?
10:04 < Grum> but the real 'big' thing is that a client can have a completely custom/unknown locale
10:04 < Grum> which is the whole point of resourcepacks
10:04 <+SirCmpwn> AlphaBlend: I have no clue what you're talking about
10:04 < Grum> being able to have custom resources, of which language is one
10:05 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: you mean the ability to have "language packs" akin to texture packs?
10:05 <+SirCmpwn> resource files will allow this?
10:05 < Grum> yes
10:05 <+SirCmpwn> well shit, now you've ruined my point
10:05 < AlphaBlend> : SirCompwn: ohahi this ------>%4red (then that is color red, although % isn't the right symbol)
10:05 <+SirCmpwn> :P
10:05 < dx> and it will only apply to vanilla translatable strings
10:05 < dx> so useful
10:05 < AlphaBlend> if players type text, they can't do this anymore?
10:05 < Grum> we miss 1 feature to complete it, but you can replace the current locales from within a resourcepack
10:05 < Grum> adding a custom one requires one more thing, a registration of it, which we havent added yet
10:05 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: you're minifying the JSON?
10:05 < Grum> SirCmpwn: currently no, but its also not 'prettified'
10:06 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: are you compressing it?
10:06 < Grum> last i saw was that it has no 'multiple whitespaces'
10:06 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: minify it, don't compress it, I'll have no further complaints
10:06 <+SirCmpwn> your library should minify it for you
10:06 < Grum> but it isnt 'minified' atm
10:06 <+SirCmpwn> it should come out of the library minified, actually
10:06 < Grum> we might eventually make it bson or something else if size turns out to be a 'real issue'
10:06 <+SirCmpwn> find a new library if it doesn't
10:07 < Grum> i think by default GSON doesnt minify it, it probably has an option to do so
10:07 < Thinkofdeath> Grum: Or half the size by changing the Chat Message to UTF8
10:07 <+SirCmpwn> don't serialize it
10:07 <+SirCmpwn> please don't serialize it
10:07 <+SirCmpwn> the performance implications are vast
10:07 < dx> what do you mean by "serialize"?
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10:07 < Grum> Thinkofdeath: slightly bigger impact but yes, that would not be bad
10:07 <+SirCmpwn> https://code.google.com/p/google-gson/
10:07 <+SirCmpwn> GSON converts Java objects to JSON
10:07 <+SirCmpwn> serialization
10:08 < dx> oh, that thing
10:08 < Grum> SirCmpwn: we have custom serialization that only adds what is non-default/needed
10:08 <+SirCmpwn> and it's slow as fuck
10:08 <+SirCmpwn> have you run performance tests?
10:08 < dx> performance is not an issue
10:08 < Grum> no, because there is no indication this will be remotely an issue
10:08 < dx> performance is never an issue
10:08 <+SirCmpwn> you've never seen a Minecraft out of memory screen?
10:08 < Grum> it might be, but not until it is
10:08 < dx> 05:27 <+md_5> wouldnt making a server that can hold 300 people without eating up 3ghz of cpu be a priority?
10:08 < dx> 05:27 < Grum> md_5: nope
10:08 < Grum> SirCmpwn: i havent actually
10:09 <+SirCmpwn> lots of people have
10:09 <+SirCmpwn> lots more will, too
10:09 <+md_5> Minecraft client ram is great :|
10:09 <+ammar2> Grum: so even if you do stick with client based translation, why bother with json, you could switch to a markdown like format for colours and do an additional packet or send a boolean in the chat packet which sends the translation key and number and types of parameters to be formatted with
10:09 <+md_5> I run on 98mb of ram tops
10:09 < Grum> SirCmpwn: not because of this change
10:09 <+SirCmpwn> this change will be one of many that contribute
10:09 < Grum> also, most of that was caused by horrible textureloading
10:09 < Grum> which is fixed now
10:09 < Grum> we leaked native buffers by the tons
10:09 <+SirCmpwn> really? I think dav1d had some concerns about your texture loading, actually
10:09 < Grum> in 1.6?
10:09 <+SirCmpwn> something about being "really fucking stupid"
10:10 < Grum> for 1.5.2 that is true
10:10 < Grum> it is STUPID there
10:10 <+SirCmpwn> I think he said you would kill performance if Dinnerbone's resource pack gist was accurate
10:10 < Grum> spend 3 bloody weeks fixing it
10:10 < Grum> its actually faster than ever now
10:10 <+SirCmpwn> not just kill, he was quite insistent that it would be a brutal, merciless, and gruesome death
10:10 < Grum> and not just a little bit faster
10:10 < Grum> SIGNIFICANTLY faster
10:10 < Grum> oh and 100% guaranteed not to leak a single byte
10:11 <+SirCmpwn> maybe "clamp": false had something to do with it?
10:11 <+SirCmpwn> I'm not certain
10:11 < Grum> well, JVM implementation aside ;)
10:11 < dx> http://dpaste.com/1228269/
10:11 < dx> here SirCmpwn Grum dav1d ^
10:11 <+SirCmpwn> something about being forced to give the GPU a shitload of shit
10:11 <+SirCmpwn> dx: ty
10:11 < Grum> god he is a fucking noob
10:11 -!- Paprikachu [~Paprikach@80.120.175.113] has joined #mcdevs
10:11 < Grum> we just need that attribute on 1-2 textures
10:11 <+SirCmpwn> dav1d is nothing of the sort, he's made a far better rendering system than Minecraft has ever had
10:11 < Grum> or do you prefer doing: bind("%clamp%%blur%/path/to/file.ext")
10:11 < Grum> i rather have it in a property file
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10:12 <+SirCmpwn> his concern is the ability to use clamp at all, I think
10:12 < Grum> yeah, does his 'far better rendering system' work on opengl 1.2?
10:12 <+SirCmpwn> yup.
10:12 < Grum> url.
10:12 <+SirCmpwn> https://github.com/dav1dde/BraLa, I think
10:12 < Grum> oh ... and crossplatform?
10:12 <+SirCmpwn> yup.
10:12 <+SirCmpwn> good luck compiling it, though, it took me a good half dozen tries
10:13 <+SirCmpwn> he seems to have a problem with documenting dependencies
10:13 < Grum> sigh
10:13 < Grum> so how is that betteR?
10:13 < dx> he also loves adding dependencies
10:13 <+SirCmpwn> it's very performant, Grum
10:13 <+SirCmpwn> I got some ridiculous framerates when I eventually did get it working
10:14 <+SirCmpwn> it doesn't have lighting, admittedly, but that's fairly cheap after it's calculated
10:14 < Grum> also sorry, its not 1.2 compat.
10:14 <+SirCmpwn> is it?
10:14 < Grum> it snot
10:14 <+SirCmpwn> huh. I thought it used to be
10:14 < Grum> it uses shaders?
10:14 < Grum> https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/brala/engine.d#L152 <--
10:14 <+SirCmpwn> ah, that'd be a new thing
10:15 < Grum> also the comparison would be rather nonsensical
10:15 <+SirCmpwn> well, fair enough. Not sure why 1.2 support is important, though
10:15 < Grum> we could get 500% more fps if we just 'stop doing shit'
10:15 <+SirCmpwn> stop doing what shit
10:15 < Grum> just rendering 'world faces' is not the painful part atm
10:15 < jast> lighting
10:16 <+SirCmpwn> jesus, opengl 1.2 was released in 1998? 15 years ago?
10:16 <+SirCmpwn> why on earth are you supporting it?
10:16 < Grum> SirCmpwn: ~700000 people would cry otherwise?
10:16 < AlphaBlend> hah
10:16 < dx> minecraft is a really simple game that can run in very old hardware with no issues
10:16 <+SirCmpwn> let them cry, and then upgrade, and wipe away their tears with their extra frames
10:16 < Grum> dx: its actually far from simple
10:17 <+SirCmpwn> ^
10:17 < dx> Grum: that's exactly my point
10:17 < AlphaBlend> what about the old Power PC users? They sure are crying :P
10:17 < Grum> i also totally agree, for the new engine we're not supporting 1.x
10:17 <+SirCmpwn> I got a really, really shitty computer to run minecraft for seven seconds
10:17 < Grum> AlphaBlend: that was 'only' 0.6%
10:17 < dx> in >5 year old hardware it is FUCKING PAINFUL TO PLAY
10:18 < AlphaBlend> Grum: Ah, well with 10+ million purchases, that's still about 600,000 people
10:18 < AlphaBlend> wait
10:18 < Grum> yeah .. one less 0
10:18 < AlphaBlend> divide by 10
10:18 < AlphaBlend> yeah
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10:18 < Grum> 'acceptable' after lots of discussions
10:18 < AlphaBlend> yes i agree
10:18 < AlphaBlend> it had to go though
10:18 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: anyway, if you agree and are getting rid of 1.x support, then don't use that as ammunition against BraLa
10:18 < Grum> SirCmpwn: you cannot compare it though
10:19 <+SirCmpwn> why is that?
10:19 < Grum> because without opengl 2.x there is no way to do ANYTHING in parallel
10:19 <+md_5> btw
10:19 <+md_5> just saying
10:19 <+md_5> as long as section sign is supported
10:19 < Grum> glLists are serial, fact of life
10:19 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: alright, I'll compare it again when you drop 1.x
10:19 <+md_5> I dont really care for 1.6
10:19 <+SirCmpwn> md_5: section sign?
10:19 < Grum> md_5: it might be for 1.6.0
10:19 < Grum> we'll drop it asap though
10:20 <+ammar2> SirCmpwn: simolean
10:20 <+SirCmpwn> that shitty character no one likes?
10:20 < Grum> §
10:20  * md_5 will not complain as long as 1.6 has it for at least a month
10:20 <+SirCmpwn> oh, you want to continue using it for colors
10:20 < dx> that shitty character which is actually easy to integrate with stuff
10:20 <+SirCmpwn> hear, hear
10:20 < Grum> the one that is default on swedishkeyboards and therefor the only reason it exists
10:20 < dx> i have it as altgr-shift-s
10:21 <+SirCmpwn> I have it as ChatColors.ControlCharacter or something
10:21 <+SirCmpwn> because I never want to see it again
10:21 < dx> lol
10:21 < Grum> SirCmpwn: agreed
10:21 < Grum> i hate it
10:21 <+SirCmpwn> why not just use \0 or something
10:21 < Grum> i want to remove it
10:21 <+SirCmpwn> such a shitty choice
10:21 < Grum> i will remove it >:)
10:21 < Grum> its 100% random
10:21 < Grum> why not use % .....
10:21 <+Amaranth> SirCmpwn: But \0 means end of string :P
10:21 <+SirCmpwn> \0 can't be typed on any keyboard I'm familiar with
10:21 <+SirCmpwn> Amaranth: pascal strings are superior according to anyone with half a brain
10:22 < dx> Grum: i always assumed it wasn't an ascii character because those would need to be escaped too often
10:22 < jast> why not use 💩
10:22 <+Amaranth> SirCmpwn: Guess you didn't want a string longer than 255 characters?
10:22 < AlphaBlend> Grum: So I guess we will be able to colorize text while chatting, but not with that character?
10:22 < Grum> AlphaBlend: nope
10:22 < Grum> client cannot send colors
10:22 <+SirCmpwn> Amaranth: how about 65535
10:22 <+SirCmpwn> oh, haha, sorry, java
10:22 <+SirCmpwn> can't use 65535
10:22 < dx> client was never able to send colors, he wasn't talking about that
10:23 <+SirCmpwn> I forgot how bad java was for a few minutes
10:23 <+SirCmpwn> thanks for reminding me
10:23 <+Amaranth> SirCmpwn: Now you're wasting space for every character of your UTF-8 strings just so you can stick a length at the front
10:23 <+Amaranth> SirCmpwn: java actually has unsigned short for char
10:23 <+SirCmpwn> Amaranth: you're wasting a single byte
10:23 < Grum> whut you cant use Char.MAX_VALUE ? :/
10:23 <+SirCmpwn> oh, the humanity!
10:23 < Grum> sorry; Character.MAX_VALUE :P
10:23 <+Amaranth> SirCmpwn: Oh, you're saying use the first two bytes as the size :P
10:23 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: that's disgusting, can you really use "char" for unsigned 16 bit numbers?
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10:23 <+SirCmpwn> Amaranth: your zero is eliminated
10:23 < Grum> SirCmpwn: yes
10:24 <+SirCmpwn> Amaranth: net balance is -1 bytes
10:24 < Grum> SirCmpwn: and its horrible
10:24 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: not as bad as those stupid unsigned arithmetic methods they just added
10:24 < Grum> but then again, you do not know the language you work in if you think it is all perfect :p
10:24 < Grum> SirCmpwn: url? :)
10:24 < Grum> curious now :
10:24 < jast> does java support U+fffe, then?
10:24 <+SirCmpwn> let me see if I can find them, Grum
10:24 < Grum> \uFFFE
10:25 < jast> (or any of the supplementary planes?)
10:25 <+Amaranth> jast: Java is UCS-2, not UTF-16 if that is what you mean
10:25 < jast> lovely
10:25 < jast> so my suggestion of 💩 is right out
10:25 <+Amaranth> BMP only
10:25 < Grum> BMP?
10:25 <+Amaranth> Grum: Basic Multilingual Plane
10:25 < jast> IOW U+0000 to U+FFFF
10:26 <+Amaranth> I guess they have surrogate pairs
10:26 < jast> it's what you do if you want to support unicode half-heartedly
10:26 < Grum> and that is further than my 'knowledge' on that subject goes =)
10:26 <+Amaranth> But iirc that's a best effort thing since they started with plain UCS-2 and people made assumptions
10:27 < Grum> mm you can ask for UTF-16 encoding though
10:27 <+Amaranth> You end up with StringBuffer#reverse saying shit like this: "Note that the reverse operation may result in producing surrogate pairs that were unpaired low-surrogates and high-surrogates before the operation. For example, reversing "\uDC00\uD800" produces "\uD800\uDC00" which is a valid surrogate pair. "
10:27 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: example found: http://download.java.net/jdk8/docs/api/java/lang/Long.html#divideUnsigned(long, long)
10:28 <+SirCmpwn> java 8 will be adding "support" for unsigned integers
10:28 <+Amaranth> Only the boxed ones :/
10:28 < AlphaBlend> O_O oh how interesting
10:28 < AlphaBlend> Amaranth: boxed ones?
10:28 <+Amaranth> Oh, wait, that is a static method on unboxed longs
10:28 <+SirCmpwn> the quotes around "support" were intentional, Amaranth
10:28 <+Amaranth> So... that's cool
10:28 <+Amaranth> AlphaBlend: long vs Long
10:28 <+Amaranth> Long is a long boxed in an Object
10:28 <+SirCmpwn> not as cool as using actual unsigned numbers in any sensible language
10:29 < Grum> SirCmpwn: 'in since 1.0' :p
10:29 < Grum> i agree, we should have had unsigned stuff
10:29 < jast> protip: long is still signed
10:29 < Grum> i hate signed stuff ;(
10:29 < jast> aaand insanity.
10:29 <+Amaranth> Well it's all bits
10:29 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: in since 1.0?
10:29 < AlphaBlend> Amaranth: Oh... that's what you mean
10:29 < Grum> err sorry; i looked wrong
10:30 < AlphaBlend> Amaranth: Makes sense not to add a primitive since like java 10 will remove primitives
10:30 <+Amaranth> I love how java mixes versions around
10:30 < AlphaBlend> i think anyways
10:30 < Grum> public static long sum(long a, long b)
10:30 < Grum> Adds two long values together as per the + operator.
10:30 <+Amaranth> Java 8, JDK 8, Java 1.8, JDK 1.8
10:30 <+SirCmpwn> it's late, going to sleep. In conclusion, everything is stupid and you're doing it wrong
10:30 < Grum> gotto love that one too ;)
10:30 < Grum> AlphaBlend: yeah also stupid :P
10:30 < Grum> errr Amaranth
10:30 < jast> AbstractLongSummingProxyFactory
10:30 < jast> yay java
10:31 <+Amaranth> AlphaBlend: Java basically never breaks backwards compatibility
10:31 <+Amaranth> That's why their implementation of generics is so lame
10:31 < Grum> yup
10:31 < AlphaBlend> Grum: It's not standard to remove primitives at all >.>
10:31 <+Amaranth> Among other things
10:31 < Grum> i wish they'd break backwards compat already on some things
10:31 < jast> generics aren't lame. interfaces are lame.
10:31 -!- xy [xy@unaffiliated/xy] has joined #mcdevs
10:31 < AlphaBlend> lol
10:31 < Grum> i actually do not call it backwards compatibility but more forwards retardility :/
10:31 <+Amaranth> jast: Generics in Java don't actually exist
10:31 < jast> Grum: same difference
10:32 < Grum> its just compiler-time-hinting :/
10:32 < Grum> and type erasure is HORRID
10:32 < jast> well it's java :)
10:32 <+sadimusi> my favorite class in java's standard library: http://javadoc.bugaco.com/com/sun/java/swing/plaf/nimbus/InternalFrameInternalFrameTitlePaneInternalFrameTitlePaneMaximizeButtonPainter.html
10:32 < xy> "Channel is publicly logged as of Feb.25/13" - where is this logged to?
10:32 -!- TRocket [~TRocket@213.205.229.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
10:33 < Grum> java is also a really nice choice to code in though
10:33 -!- shoghicp [~shoghicp@77.225.6.14] has joined #mcdevs
10:33 < Grum> free cross-platform :p
10:33 <+Amaranth> sadimusi: Everyone points to that one
10:33 <+sadimusi> Amaranth: of course, it's probably the longest
10:33 -!- TRocket [~TRocket@213.205.229.39] has joined #mcdevs
10:33 <+Amaranth> Grum: This used to be the place where I'd say C#
10:34 < AlphaBlend> meh, you can mix and match too right now which is silly
10:34 <+Amaranth> But then I learned the details of their memory model and now disagree with use of it
10:34 < AlphaBlend> boolean bl = Boolean.TRUE;
10:34 -!- Calinou [~Calinou@unaffiliated/calinou] has quit [Quit: Excess Flood]
10:34 <+SirCmpwn> oh, one more thing before I take my leave
10:34 < jast> plenty of things are more cross-platform than java, really
10:34 < Grum> Amaranth: hehe
10:34 < jast> for all the fun stuff you need native code libs anyway
10:34 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: if you change that silly value in 0xFE to be the protocol version, I'll give you pictures of boobs
10:34 < dx> pictures of SirCmpwn's boobs?
10:34 < Grum> SirCmpwn: i prefer to remain breathing
10:34 <+Amaranth> I _think_ C# and .NET may have been designed for Itanium since their memory model is a pretty close match to how that CPU works
10:34 < AlphaBlend> hahahaha
10:34 <+SirCmpwn> not my boobs, other people's glorious boobs
10:35 < dx> notch's boobs?
10:35 <+SirCmpwn> my boobs are small and unworthy of Grum's eyes
10:35 < dx> also
10:35 < dx> 05:28 < Grum> i actually do not call it backwards compatibility but more forwards retardility :/
10:35 < AlphaBlend> Notch is a God, his boobs cannot be seen
10:35 < dx> I LIKE THIS PHRASE
10:35 < Grum> Amaranth: meh just get faster hardware ;)
10:35 <+SirCmpwn> anyway, it's a simple change that makes quite a lot of people happy, and you get boobs from it
10:35 <+SirCmpwn> can't lose
10:35 <+SirCmpwn> good night
10:35 < Grum> dx: you gotto hate the language you love working in;)
10:36 < Grum> SirCmpwn: i'd die :P
10:36 <+Amaranth> Grum: What? I'm talking about the memory model which is only important wrt to multithreaded programs
10:36 <+Amaranth> Which these days means all non-trivial programs
10:36 < dx> Grum: oh, didn't even realize you were talking about the language, not the codebase
10:36 <+SirCmpwn> worth it, Grum
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10:36 < Grum> Amaranth: add moar hardware!
10:36 < jast> the only sane way to do multi-threaded code is to use message passing
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10:36 <+Amaranth> jast: So you're a fan of Go then
10:37 < jast> not really
10:37 < dx> erlang maybe
10:37 < Grum> absolutely no cost involved with the message-passing-framework :p
10:37 <+Amaranth> The Java, C, and C++ memory models are great for multithreaded development though
10:37 < dx> but message passing for multithreading is rather generic
10:37 < jast> and if the runtime optimizes that using shared memory, all the better. as long as you don't have to mess with mutexes and shit and fill it to the brim with subtle deadlocks and races
10:38 < dx> deadlocks are fun
10:38 <+Amaranth> Java 1.5, C11, and C++11 anyway
10:38 < dx> do you really want to miss the fun of debugging threading related bugs
10:38 < dx> why would you use message passing
10:38 <+Amaranth> The phrase was "sequentially consistent except for data races" or something like that
10:38 < jast> as far as I'm concerned, concurrency based on message-passing is the only way to make concurrency not stupidly hard
10:39 < dx> jast: the code in charge of message passing will have to use something like mutexes, right? (but nicely abstracted)
10:39 < jast> condition variables seem to be a sane approach, too
10:40 < jast> dx: it will have to do *some* kind of synchronization, yes... unless you want to make it rather inefficient
10:40 < dx> heh
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10:40 <+Amaranth> jast: Having message passing doesn't remove the need for some kind of defined memory model
10:40 < Grum> synchronization is totally free ;)
10:40 <+Amaranth> Except now instead of talking about read/write reordering you're talking about channel communication reordering
10:40 < jast> message passing is conceptually shared-nothing (you can only exchange data via messages)
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10:41 < jast> well, depending on the implementation, messages are guaranteed to arrive in-order
10:41 <+Amaranth> jast: What happens if the compiler or CPU reorders my code to move a write above a read on a channel?
10:41 < Grum> btw, its not very unlikely that we'll start using an integerbased coordinate system rather than doubles/floats we're doing now for things like entity-positions :P
10:41 < jast> what happens if the compiler or CPU inserts "crash kernel" statements
10:41 <+md_5> Amaranth did you ever manage to work around this jline bug? http://screencloud.net/v/1Sfd
10:41 < Grum> drool on that ;)
10:42 <+Amaranth> md_5: Probably not
10:42 <+Amaranth> Grum: So each block is now 16 units?
10:42 <+Amaranth> Or was it 8, I forget
10:42 < Grum> 256 likely
10:42 < dx> Amaranth: do compilers or CPUs really do that? i mean i have no idea how can someone get away with that kind of aggressive optimization without breaking stuff
10:42 <+Amaranth> dx: Absolutely PowerPC and ARM do that
10:42 < jast> compilers and CPUs *do* execute statements out-of-order
10:43 < jast> but only if there is no effective difference
10:43 <+Amaranth> jast: That isn't quite true
10:43 <+Amaranth> They don't know there is a difference because they cannot detect data races
10:44 <+Amaranth> You have to be able to treat message reads/writes as barriers in order to be able to sanely reason about the execution of your program
10:44 <+Amaranth> So you need your language to define them as such
10:44 -!- TRocket [~TRocket@213.205.229.39] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
10:45 < jast> reads *do* wait, of course. nothing else makes sense.
10:46 <+Amaranth> jast: It's not about them waiting, it's about whether or not the compiler or CPU moves them around
10:46 < jast> I can't quite imagine an example for which it would
10:46 < Grum> Amaranth: we're having too many .... 'errors' because of loss or precision :/
10:46 < Grum> so using an integerbased system totally kills all of those things
10:46 <+Amaranth> jast: http://herbsutter.com/2013/02/11/atomic-weapons-the-c-memory-model-and-modern-hardware/
10:47 <+Amaranth> Grum: In my testing this was not your problem with mobs glitching through walls
10:47 < dx> lol url slugs removing the ++ part out of C++
10:47 < Grum> Amaranth: oh that is probably just because of bad collision code
10:47 < jast> I don't have time to watch lenghty videos right now
10:47 <+Amaranth> iirc the reason they go through walls client side is because of bad collision detection and motion prediction
10:47 < AlphaBlend> Grum: At any rate, to my previous ranting, do w/e you do in order that modders have no issues with each other
10:48 < Grum> modders will always have issues
10:48 <+Amaranth> AlphaBlend: There will always be conflicts
10:48 < Grum> because modders only hack on shit rather than doing constructive things =)
10:48 < AlphaBlend> Grum: It seems Mojang is catering to those who don't develop Minecraft, rather than themselves, but that goes to show they care about the people who buy the game
10:48 < Grum> AlphaBlend: what? that makes no sense
10:48 < AlphaBlend> well
10:48 < Grum> we're catering very heavily towards ourselves
10:49 < Grum> we need these things, we do not really care much if others do
10:49 <+Amaranth> I hope in the modern mojang plugin API world they do things like have individual plugins for ores and such and treat them as libraries
10:49 <+Amaranth> Then I remember this is the real world and get sad
10:49 < AlphaBlend> it seems that most game publishers make features that they only think up, and only develop seemingly for themselves
10:49 < AlphaBlend> Grum: Yes, but you're doing this so that modders can mod the game, in the long haul
10:49 < Grum> Amaranth: the idea is to ship ....... SO MANY PLUGINS it'll make you cry
10:49 < Grum> in 1 plugin :P
10:49 < jast> yes! make _everything_ a plugin! kill performance!
10:50 < AlphaBlend> hahaha
10:50 < Grum> why would that kill performance?
10:50 <+Amaranth> jast: Multiple plugins with a dependency graph doesn't mean lower performance than one monolithic plugin that includes all the same features
10:50 < jast> it's not the number of plugins, but the number of hooks hooked into and such
10:50 < Grum> hooks?
10:51 < Grum> hooks are the things the people who do not design a system to be extendable use
10:51 < Grum> aka: every known minecraft system sofar
10:51 <+Amaranth> Grum: err, signals/slots, events, callbacks, whatever you want to call them are the way the world works
10:52 < Grum> didn't we once upon a time talk about my idea Amaranth?
10:52 < jast> the more stuff is made pluggable within inner loops, the more KILL PERFORMANCE!
10:52 <+Amaranth> I don't think so
10:52 < Grum> quite sure we did :P
10:52 < AlphaBlend> This is what will contrast Minecraft from numerous other games, it will be compartmentalized!
10:53 < AlphaBlend> There is this chat program I use for Battle.Net
10:54 < AlphaBlend> the devs, had they continued development, which they did not because b.net kinda died and they lost interest, would have made all the features plugin-oriented, so you could disable some if you didn't need their functionality
10:54 < jast> suppose I want a plugin that extends the behaviour of, say, smooth stone blocks... now I have to somehow get my plugin behaviour get called whenever something happens to a smooth stone block
10:54 < AlphaBlend> not a new concept, but it's pretty nice
10:54 < jast> maybe I want to render polka dots on a random subset of smooth stone blocks
10:54 <+Amaranth> jast: I think Grum's idea was you'd replace the smooth stone block plugin instead
10:54 <+Amaranth> Which doesn't go well with plugins working together
10:55 < jast> yep
10:55 < Grum> erm not really
10:55 <+Amaranth> You need the ability to do that and you need events like Bukkit has now
10:55 < Grum> you'd just register the behavior you want to have called
10:55 <+Amaranth> Well, maybe not like Bukkit has not but a similar system :P
10:55 < dx> register behavior you want to have called? so... hooks?
10:55 < jast> exactly. and now everything registers a shit ton of behaviours and we have lots of call lists to go through
10:55 < Grum> Amaranth: seen how we did dispensers?
10:55 <+Amaranth> Grum: Not everything can be dispensers
10:56 <+Amaranth> d'oh, you beat me
10:56 < Grum> yes everything can be dispeners
10:56 < AlphaBlend> MEMORY SCREAMS!
10:56 <+Amaranth> jast: That is the way programs work though
10:56 < Grum> jast: not really? :/
10:56  * AlphaBlend hears the cries from the computer
10:56 < jast> Amaranth: ikr
10:56 <+Amaranth> Either you hard code everything or you have lists of callbacks
10:56 <+Amaranth> jast: I'm being serious
10:56 < Grum> right now we do both and static
10:56 < Grum> Amaranth: what cant you do dispenserstyle?
10:57 < Grum> (besides 'external input')
10:57 < jast> all enterprisey software starts with a simple thought: hey, let's make everything dynamically extensible
10:57 < dx> the minecraft world isn't made out of blocks, it's made out of dispensers
10:57 < Grum> jast: but that is not what we're doing at all
10:57 <+Amaranth> Grum: Make mobs randomly love each other
10:57 < jast> and before you know it, slow mess of unmaintainable
10:57 <+Amaranth> jast: You're not providing alternatives
10:57 < Grum> Amaranth: that is AI Behavior, as AI should apply to entities, add that behavior to all the applicable mobs and done?
10:58 < jast> that's right
10:58 <+Amaranth> jast: So you disagree with the idea of mods and plugins and think the game should just be the game and that's the end of it?
10:58 < jast> the alternative is to not make _everything_ pluggable
10:58 < Grum> which is what we have now
10:58 < Grum> 100% static game
10:58 < jast> but to be fairly selective about it
10:58 < jast> and there will always be a trade-off
10:58 <+Amaranth> Grum: Except not, blocks are almost pluggable
10:59 < Grum> they arent
10:59 < Grum> they are 100% hardcoded
10:59 <+Amaranth> I've certainly dynamically replaced a block's implementation
10:59 < dx> jast: "fairly selective" is what bukkit does then, where you get 10% of the plugins breaking on every release because they don't have the APIs they need
11:00 < Grum> Amaranth: yes replaced ... not added
11:00 < jast> yeah well, you can't solve all problems
11:00 < jast> welcome to real life
11:00 <+Amaranth> Grum: I can't add more because of the protocol :P
11:00 < dx> the mod api wants to solve all problems
11:00 < jast> that's the way of enterprisey
11:00 < Grum> Amaranth: adding blocks via a protocol? lal :P
11:00 < dx> maybe
11:00 < Grum> erm we're not at all solving all problems with the plugin api
11:01 <+Amaranth> Grum: I mean I can add more but they'll crash the client
11:01 < Grum> we're solving the problems WE need to solve to remake the game
11:01 <+Amaranth> Because there is no protocol to tell the client what they are
11:01 <+md_5> Amaranth well I poked the jline developers about that bug, the one guy who just came active on the project seems nice
11:01 < jast> if you want to go _really_ enterprisey, you make the whole plugin architecture distributed, i.e. you connect a polkadotsmoothstone server to the game server to alter its behaviour :p
11:01 < Grum> jast: OSGI
11:01 < AlphaBlend> Grum: Are you keeping the client dumb, where it can only handle so much data for given things, before it crashes?
11:01 < Grum> over the wire!
11:02 < AlphaBlend> Grum: I.E. inventory title > 32 characters
11:02 <+Amaranth> jast: The bukkit plugin loader lets you chain plugin loaders :D
11:02 <+md_5> plz no osgi
11:02 < TobiX> Is minecraft getting a Spring configuration file? *gd&r*
11:02 < Grum> osgi is the way!
11:02 < dx> AlphaBlend: "are you going to fix the thousands of ways the server can crash a client?"
11:02 < Grum> TobiX: actually we might add that eventually
11:02  * md_5 cuts Grum 
11:02 <+Amaranth> dx: A disconnect for a failed assertion is not a crash
11:03 < Grum> omg the code compiles again
11:03 < dx> Amaranth: there are many issues, not all of them are asserts
11:03 < jast> a failed assertion is something that isn't supposed to happen, 'nuff said
11:03 < dx> jast: i'm talking about the server sending the client crap, so yes it should :P
11:04 < jast> no
11:04 < AlphaBlend> dx: apparently "so much data for given things" wasn't generic enough for you not to post a suggestive quote :(
11:04 < jast> failed assertions indicate coding errors in the system that throws the assertion
11:04 < jast> *assertion failure
11:04 < dx> AlphaBlend: lolwat
11:05 < jast> a client should be resilient against protocol errors and stuff
11:05 < TobiX> jast: Or crummy assertions. Which is also a coding error ;)
11:05 < AlphaBlend> dx: You merely quoted something I could have said, but I said it essentially, in a way, although it was quite subtle
11:06 < dx> AlphaBlend: well not really a quote, but yes. so uhm, sorry?
11:06 <+Amaranth> I'm okay with the client bailing when you send it invalid data and with the server kicking a client when it gets invalid data
11:06 < AlphaBlend> dx: No need, but thanks for the suggestion!
11:06 -!- eddyb [~eddy@unaffiliated/eddyb] has joined #mcdevs
11:06 < dx> AlphaBlend: i'm confused now :D
11:06 < jast> assertions are for developers, not end users
11:06 < jast> if you want to bail, show an actual human-friendly error
11:07 < AlphaBlend> dx: I... nvm! I'll clean up my wording in the future!
11:07 <+Amaranth> This is arguing details, not ideas :P
11:07 < dx> AlphaBlend: nah, it's perfectly okay to say things in a subtle way.
11:07 < jast> my ideas are irrelevant to minecraft
11:08 < AlphaBlend> jast: Do you sanitize parameters to methods, even if your arguments will be sane 100% of the time?
11:08 < jast> no
11:08 < AlphaBlend> oh
11:08 < AlphaBlend> if you were in a group, would you then?
11:09 < jast> but I do sanitize external input, such as network messages
11:09 < jast> no. I work with sane people.
11:09 < AlphaBlend> hah
11:09 < AlphaBlend> yeah
11:09 < AlphaBlend> that makes sense
11:09 <+Amaranth> jast: This is a problem with minecraft, input sanitization is a part of processing the input
11:09 < AlphaBlend> minecraft client does not sanitize that :(
11:09 <+Amaranth> shotgun parsing
11:10 < AlphaBlend> it's just like, "Oh, NO U, *POOF*"
11:10 < AlphaBlend> Amaranth: Moar CPUs, that's why it doesn't sanitize input?
11:10 -!- Calinou [~Calinou@unaffiliated/calinou] has joined #mcdevs
11:10 <+Amaranth> AlphaBlend: No no, I mean it doesn't sanitize it in the networking layer
11:11 <+Amaranth> Aside from ensuring you've sent the correct amount of data
11:11 < AlphaBlend> ah
11:12 <+Amaranth> It does generally end up sanitized just a little bit here and a little bit there as it processes it and it relies on exceptions to deal with sanitization failures
11:13 < AlphaBlend> right, like sending a string where an int is expected
11:13 -!- BizarreCake [~BizarreCa@46.121.251.157] has joined #mcdevs
11:14 -!- conehead [~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.]
11:19 < AlphaBlend> at any rate
11:19 < AlphaBlend> kind of feel bad for Mojang since minecraft was not really anywhere near read for the mod API when work started to prepare it, and it's still not really near, although it's gotten a lot closer
11:19 < AlphaBlend> s/read/ready
11:21 <+md_5> feel bad for mojang?
11:21 -!- Paprikachu [~Paprikach@80.120.175.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:21 <+md_5> you know they are already making a profit off scrolls?
11:21 <+md_5> something like 2 years dev costs recouped in a week
11:22 < AlphaBlend> heh, i suppose it's fun in a way
11:23 < AlphaBlend> i mean, the work they're doing for minecraft
11:23 < dx> md_5: sorry, but finding java developers in stockholm is extremely hard
11:23 <+md_5> yes
11:23 <+md_5> dx there are none, its too cold for us
11:23 <+md_5> java developers need warm climates
11:23 < dx> yeah must be that
11:23 < AlphaBlend> lol
11:23 <+ammar2> md_5: java "developers"
11:24 <+md_5> <md_5> .g java developers stockholm
11:24 <+md_5> <CafeBabe> (md_5) http://www.jobsinstockholm.com/it/ -- IT & Technology | Jobs in Stockholm - Sweden: "4 June - Senior Java Developer - Payments, Stockholm. Not available for this job.   - ns -. King 4 June - Backend Java Developer, Stockholm. Not..."
11:24 <+md_5> hum
11:24 <+md_5> not what I expected
11:24  * md_5 srhug
11:24 < dx> deadbabe
11:25 < AlphaBlend> im glad i got into ja va
11:25 <+md_5> I love how her first result is the bottom of the page on my google
11:25 < AlphaBlend> java*
11:25 <+md_5> AlphaBlend tbh job oppurtunties are not that great unless you are versed in java ee
11:25 < AlphaBlend> basically didn't know anything when i joined the development team for the minecraft community i'm a part of
11:25 <+md_5> opportunities
11:25 <+Amaranth> md_5: You live in your own google bubble
11:25 < AlphaBlend> but i learned gradually
11:25 < dx> google bubbles are fun
11:25 < AlphaBlend> and i'm not a master, nor too proficient, but i know more than enough to get by in our team
11:26 <+md_5> hm
11:26 <+md_5> Rovio has a swedish office
11:26 < AlphaBlend> learned a lot more OO than I did before playing with java
11:26 <+md_5> http://www.rovio.com/en/careers/Open-positions/view/197/game-programmers-stockholm
11:26 <+md_5> I'm sure they need java guys
11:26 <+Amaranth> Probably not really
11:27 <+ammar2> md_5: well yeah, they're based in sweeden, naturally they'd have an office there :P
11:27 < Fador> umm
11:27 < Fador> <- Finnish
11:27 < AlphaBlend> you guys have kept me up from going to bed
11:27 < AlphaBlend> grats
11:27 <+Amaranth> They probably have one guy who knows java/android enough to hook their game up to some basic framework and that's it
11:27 < Fador> Finland != Sweden
11:27 <+Amaranth> Not like they make "android" apps
11:28 < dx> Amaranth: so they use NDK for everything?
11:28 <+Amaranth> Yeah
11:29 <+ammar2> Fador: pretty much the same thing, sweeden is the shaft, finland is the ballsack. http://i.imgur.com/gaw0sQv.gif
11:29 <+md_5> doesnt matter
11:29 <+md_5> there is NOT a shortage of devs there
11:29 < dx> ammar2: >sweeden
11:29 <+ammar2> dx: hush
11:30 < Fador> ammar2 ...;D
11:30 <+Amaranth> DICE is there, could poach some of their guys
11:30 <+Amaranth> Learning java isn't hard
11:30 < dx> if you mean that it isn't hard for people with experience with languages like C++, then yes
11:30 <+ammar2> Amaranth: if you're gonna rewrite, may as well dump java since apparently no one cares about anything that doesn't directly affect vanilla and or map makers
11:31 -!- mode/#mcdevs [+v Fador] by ChanServ
11:31 <+Amaranth> ammar2: I'd do C++ with lua for addons
11:31 <+Amaranth> Groundbreaking, I know
11:31 < dx> lol lua
11:31 <+ammar2> Amaranth: but lua has 1 indexed arrays :(
11:31  * AlphaBlend raises an ear
11:31 <+Amaranth> ammar2: Modders are used to it :P
11:32 < SinZ> I like how everytime Gru.m talks here, a huge argument happens
11:33 < dx> well, grum raised a lot of strong points too
11:33 <+ammar2> yeah, like how they cleverly got around string.format's incredible cost with json encoding
11:33 <+md_5> thats because we all hate what mojang is doing
11:33 <+md_5> you could write an optimized formatter?
11:33 < dx> i mean, just read this stuff: http://dump.dequis.org/kfUcV.png
11:34 <+md_5> thats more dots than when evilseph cracked the shits at me
11:34 <+md_5> and he had a fair few dots
11:34 < Grum> ammar2: that is not the point
11:34 <+md_5> seems mojangstas like expressing their frustration with dots
11:34 <+ammar2> Grum: it was a joke, relax. :P
11:34 < AlphaBlend> so do i!
11:35 <+ammar2> but you didn't respond to my other thing, let me up arrow
11:35 <+ammar2> Grum: so even if you do stick with client based translation, why bother with json, you could switch to a markdown like format for colours and do an additional packet or send a boolean in the chat packet which sends the translation key and number and types of parameters to be formatted with
11:35 < Grum> because we need nested structure
11:35 < Grum> and nothing really trivially supports that
11:36 < dx> and here we are again with the argument of "we won't write a simple markup parser because it takes more than 5 minutes"
11:36 < AlphaBlend> well
11:36 < Grum> no
11:36 < Grum>  writing a markup parser doent take 5 minutes
11:37 <+ammar2> because someone has already done the hard work of writing the parser for you :)
11:37 < AlphaBlend> i suppose you need something that doesn't require a lot of processing, not merely convenient for modders, right?
11:37 <+ammar2> Grum: got any examples of these complex nested structures that apparently nothing else can do?
11:37 < Grum> we need something that is flexible and nestable
11:37 <+md_5> ammar2 nope, but they will arise
11:37 <+md_5> trust me
11:37 < AlphaBlend> as right now the server has to parse the chat message looking for chat colors and then parsing them into what they should be
11:37 <+md_5> I already showed them my nested array format
11:37 <+md_5> now good enough apparently
11:37 < Grum> ammar2: /give returns a player + item, the item is localized too within a localized string
11:38 < Grum> aka nesting
11:38 < Grum> we do not add it because we 'think it is nice' -- we added it because it turned out to be a requirement
11:38 < AlphaBlend> like if you mirror java's String.format() where you parameterize input and send it to the server, the server doesn't need to do too much
11:38 < Grum> then we figured; well we miht as well use json for it, all of the other shit we'll do structured will be json anyhow
11:38 < AlphaBlend> it's stuff like that i'd understand
11:39 < Grum> what?
11:39 < Grum> nothing of this is for client->server
11:39 < Grum> its purely server->client
11:39 < AlphaBlend> oh
11:39 <+Amaranth> btw if you used server based translations you could switch to gettext too, bonus :P
11:39 <+md_5> essentials 3 uses gettext
11:39 <+md_5> :p
11:39 < Grum> gettext?
11:39 < Grum> you mean the 'standard' with .po files (orso?)
11:40 <+md_5> oh come on, didnt you do C programming gru.m
11:40 < AlphaBlend> i suppose that doesn't really matter anyways, my goal was simply saying parameterizing data
11:40 < Grum> nope i havent
11:40 <+md_5> yes that
11:40 <+ammar2> Grum: thisis what you had in your /give example https://gist.github.com/Dinnerbone/5631634#file-gistfile1-json-L18
11:40 < Grum> yeah. which is not really an option
11:40 < Grum> ammar2: that example was done before we realized we needed it
11:41 < Grum> 'stone' should be another {translate: item.stone} entry
11:41 < Grum> actually, that is not true
11:41 < Grum> the example is simply incomplete
11:41 < Grum> and false :P
11:41 < Grum> but still working nevertheless
11:42 <+md_5> > delete / edit it then
11:42 < Grum> why?
11:42 < Grum> conveys the intention well enough
11:42 < dx> gists are git repos, you can use them like that
11:42 <+ammar2> and what's stopping you from doing that without json? 'chat packet which sends the translation key and number and types of parameters' the type can be 'translation', the parameter can be 'item.stone'
11:43 < Grum> BECAUSE IT HAS TO BE NESTED
11:43 < Grum> stop being dense
11:43 < Grum> jezus
11:43 < Grum> also, we do send it completely minified
11:44 <+md_5> am I the only one who doesnt care about json at this stage?
11:44 < Grum> seems like it
11:44 <+md_5> I have the simolean stuff until at least 1.6.1
11:44 < Grum> you *may* have it
11:44 <+md_5> well if I dont, then I'll go back to caring :p
11:44 <+Amaranth> Is this where I come in and say protobuf? ;)
11:45 < Grum> Amaranth: you can but pointless without a major overhaul
11:45 <+md_5> no
11:45 <+md_5> thats stupid
11:45 < Grum> yes
11:45 < Grum> i'm not going to invest time into it when it gains us nothing
11:48 <+ammar2> because you've been investing time pretty carefully for the last year huh, the progress is astounding
11:48 < Grum> ammar2: feel free to attempt to do it better
11:49 <+ammar2> sure, hire me
11:49 < Grum> why?
11:49 < Grum> just code, you have the source
11:49 < Grum> go make it better.
11:49 <+md_5> ....
11:49 <+ammar2> "source"
11:49 <+md_5> w0t
11:49 <+ammar2> hahaha
11:49 < dx> "source"
11:49 <+md_5> Grum plz
11:49 < Grum> i dont see the problem
11:49 <+md_5> stahp
11:49 < dx> this guy
11:49 < Grum> there is barely any difference between that and what we work in >.>
11:49 < AlphaBlend> use MCP
11:49 < dx> Grum: you're good at this
11:49 < dx> Grum: congratulations
11:49 < Grum> mcp is actually better documented than our source >.>
11:49 < Grum> and i'm not kidding
11:49 < AlphaBlend> LOL
11:49 < SinZ> Grum: btw, with the new launcher, if you set the game directory on your profile to not .minecraft, Assets don't get loaded
11:49 < Calinou> Grum: true story
11:50 <+md_5> Grum if that was true and there was *any* likelyhood of you accepting patches I would have spammed stuff @ you
11:50 < Grum> Dinnerbone: ^^ SinZ
11:50 < Calinou> now, how about unobfuscating the source
11:50 < Calinou> let's see his answer
11:50 < Grum> md_5: for useless shit :)
11:50 < AlphaBlend> lol
11:50 < AlphaBlend> Calinou: Troll, go away
11:50 <+md_5> common sense stuff like dimensions being an int in one packet and byte in another
11:50 < AlphaBlend> :(
11:50 <+md_5> how is that useless.
11:50 < Calinou> no u
11:50 < Grum> md_5: i'll make the other one a byte
11:51 < Grum> also shrinks the protocol, problem solved.
11:51 <+md_5> D:
11:51 < AlphaBlend> Calinou: I've been in discussions where you presented that idea, and they didn't go nicely :\
11:51 < Calinou> of course
11:51 < Calinou> Binnerdone is the MP3 fanboy in our screwed up family
11:51 <+md_5> removing a space from 1 in every every 100 chat packets would shrink it more
11:51 < Grum> we'll stop obfuscating large parts of the source, not now though
11:51 < dx> common sense stuff like Grum's most loved feature request, packet length headers
11:51 <+md_5> um
11:51 <+md_5> if you stop obfuscating part
11:51 -!- XAMPP [~XAMPP@botters/xampp] has joined #mcdevs
11:52 <+md_5> why wouldnt you do it all
11:52 < Grum> md_5: because you do not need to see the source of 'the other things'
11:52 < Calinou> ^
11:52 < Calinou> eg. how deadmau5 has ears
11:52 <+md_5>  there will be people that need to
11:52 < Grum> we'd also very likely hand out the source of things that is not obfuscated
11:52 < Grum> or rather; make them public
11:52 < Grum> md_5: fuck those people
11:52 < AlphaBlend> Calinou: i think it was less humorous than when pbunny threw his ideas at Grum about an all-chunks-loaded-minecraft-server
11:52 < Calinou> lol
11:53 < dx> 06:49 < Grum> md_5: because you do not need to see the source of 'the other things'
11:53 < dx> 06:46 < Grum> just code, you have the source
11:53 < dx> 06:46 < Grum> there is barely any difference between that and what we work in >.>
11:53 < Grum> dx: mcp == source
11:53 < SinZ> it is close enough to the source
11:53 < dx> Grum: what was the reason to not deobfuscate again?
11:54 < AlphaBlend> Grum: Does Searge get his mappings from you guys or does he use some code magic that is self aware type stuff?
11:54 < Grum> .java files compiles to a workable minecraft, less excuses, go majorly improve it without breaking backwards compat 1000 times without reason
11:54 < Grum> AlphaBlend: i mail the mappings to him every snapshot
11:54 < dx> 05:28 < Grum> i actually do not call it backwards compatibility but more forwards retardility :/
11:54 < Calinou> dx: Binnerdone said "performance"
11:54 <+Amaranth> Fun fact, making up names for things based on what they do gets you better names than Mojang has a large amount of the time :P
11:54 < Calinou> (lol'd)
11:54 < Grum> Amaranth: true
11:54 <+md_5> mcp is nothing like the source
11:54 < AlphaBlend> Grum: That raises questions I don't think I want to ask :(
11:54 < Grum> md_5: its better >.>
11:54 <+md_5> there are plenty of unmapped methods
11:54 < Grum> yeah there are also lots of useless methods
11:54 <+md_5> func_12342_a is useless to me
11:54 < SinZ> like GuiMainMenu
11:54 < Grum> and we have utterly shitty names too
11:55 < dx> Grum: backwards compatibility is not an argument with the current codebase
11:55 < AlphaBlend> well
11:55 < SinZ> that class has alot of unmapped functions
11:55 <+md_5> not as shit as func_randomNumber_randomLetter
11:55 < Grum> dx: that was for java the language, nothing codebase
11:55 <+Amaranth> md_5: That's probably one of those ones called something like "heyImYourNeighbor" :P
11:55 < dx> Grum: i know, but it's relevant in this case
11:55 < Grum> dx: we try to keep the breaks as grouped as possible
11:56 < Grum> so not to break it 10 times in a row
11:56 < Grum> but rather break it one time *really* badly
11:56 <+Amaranth> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~sergey/langsec/occupy/
11:56 <+Amaranth> Somewhat related, dx was talking about protocol stuff :P
11:56 < AlphaBlend> Grum: My question about you mailing Searge those mappings is simply why obfuscate when you support mailing the mappings to him? If this starts an argument, I'll quickly back down
11:57 <+md_5> AlphaBlend I was shocked when  I learnt that
11:57 <+md_5> its such a waste of time
11:57 < dx> Amaranth: wait what
11:57 <+Amaranth> dx: They argue against things like length fields
11:57 < Grum> Amaranth: is the obfuscation a real problem?
11:57 < Grum> i mean, for Bukkit, is it a HUGE problem that is absolutely making your work impossibly hard?
11:58 <+Amaranth> Grum: Well, it costs me a day every time you update :P
11:58 < AlphaBlend> Grum: Take from your experience with Bukkit and updating to new minecraft versions
11:58 < Grum> AlphaBlend: i couldn't care less
11:58 < AlphaBlend> i suppose so
11:58 < Grum> the breaks we had were because of structural changes not obfuscation
11:58 -!- r04r|away is now known as r04r
11:58 < AlphaBlend> oh
11:58 < Grum> yeah, because we refactor things or move them around; that causes breaks; not the obfuscation itself
11:59 < AlphaBlend> Amaranth: AT any rate, better thank Grum for his hand-me-down tools you guys use :D
11:59 < dx> it also means there are no bukkit releases for snapshots... except some builds from suspicious sources
11:59 <+md_5> because ofc mojang gave you the mappins
11:59 <+md_5> dx hey I wouldnt call them suspcious, I wrote an entire program to make them
11:59 <+Amaranth> AlphaBlend: Oh god the perl
11:59 < AlphaBlend> dx: Find faith in Spigot then
11:59 < Grum> dx: because bukkit hasn't evolved to use patches and is rather big
11:59 <+Amaranth> Grum: Single largest mod there is afaik
11:59 < Grum> md_5: we never actually used any mappings
11:59 < Grum> except for naming new classes
12:00 <+Amaranth> I use the mappings from Mojang for hints as to naming... what he said
12:00 < dx> md_5: i mean, the way the bukkit unofficial builds are distributed is often shady
12:00 < Grum> if bukkit were to migrate to a patch-based-system on the mcp-naming-scheme updating from obfuscation-changes would be minutes not hours
12:00 < Grum> but we're still talking ~4-5hrs for obfuscation
12:00 <+md_5> not saying I havent suggested that
12:01 < Grum> nothing on the grand scale of things
12:01 < Grum> so, apparently Amaranth isn't super bothered with obfuscation, Searge, LexManos and cpw aren't either; so why the f*ck do you guys whine so much?
12:02 <+md_5> because those are 4 people, and one of them has a job that consists of only dealing with obfuscation
12:02 < AlphaBlend> me, it's purely on a want-to-know basis, i just mainly go with the flow anyways
12:02 < AlphaBlend> i don't really care tbh
12:03 <+Amaranth> Also I'm not dealing with it anymore so I'm of course not bothered :P
12:03 < AlphaBlend> it's just something that makes me realllllllly curious
12:03 < Grum> frankly, we're keeping it because i'm saying that we're keeping it
12:03 < dx> Grum: we originally started the deobfuscation discussion the last time because you often tell us to implement stuff that you can't be bothered to write, and we have no legal way to do so
12:04 < Grum> we'll drop it when we're moving towards using the api for our game for the parts that use the api (and the api itself obviously)
12:04 <+Amaranth> dx: Being deobfuscated wouldn't make it legal
12:04 < dx> most of the time it turns into "write a reference implementation with MCP and we'll rewrite it"
12:04 < dx> Amaranth: it can be legal if a license is applied
12:04 < Grum> its not legal ever
12:04 < AlphaBlend> Grum: Mainly so people don't rip Mojang off, right? I mean, there had to be a reason in the beginning to obfuscate it
12:04 < Grum> AlphaBlend: not really, mainly because i said so
12:04 < Grum> (oh i also wont change my mind ;D)
12:05 < AlphaBlend> Well, you weren't around when Notch was working on it and would obfuscate it himself, so it's mainly an inherited trait o.o
12:05 < Grum> yes it is
12:05 < Grum> and until we're at a cleaner sourcebase, i dont see any benefit to Mojang changing it
12:05 <+ammar2> aah yes the age old no benefit to mojang argument
12:05 <+ammar2> we've gone full circle again
12:05 < Grum> when we're using the api ourselves to build the game, it will be an awesome demonstration of how to use the api to get things done, which is why i then do agree it makes sense
12:05 < AlphaBlend> uhhh, that almost sounds as if it was left unobfuscated, people would laugh at the code :P
12:06 < Grum> AlphaBlend: yes
12:06 <+md_5> we know your code is shit
12:06 <+ammar2> AlphaBlend: we already do
12:06 <+md_5> so it doesnt change anything
12:06 < AlphaBlend> our code is just....
12:06 < AlphaBlend> GAH
12:06 < AlphaBlend> better, but still
12:06 < Grum> md_5: so why change it if it doesnt change anything
12:06 < dx> "MCP shows everything" "deobfuscating it would show things you don't want to see"
12:06 < dx> makes perfect sense.
12:06 < AlphaBlend> lol
12:07 < Calinou> dx: read: it shows ponies
12:07 < AlphaBlend> ohhh yesssssss
12:07 < AlphaBlend> "// Searge ftw, lol
12:07 < Calinou> <ammar2> aah yes the age old no benefit to mojang argument
12:07 < Calinou> hey, why does linux sucks afterall
12:07 < dx> AlphaBlend: it's still compiled, won't show comments
12:07 < Calinou> no benefit to port apps to it!
12:07 < Calinou> :phoronix rolleyes:
12:08 <+Amaranth> Grum: With obfuscation no one will ever see your ASCII art comments :D
12:08 < AlphaBlend> dx: Well, I was merely referring to the decompiled code and after MCP adds comments to it
12:08 <+Amaranth> Well, I guess they still wouldn't
12:08 < dx> AlphaBlend: oh that
12:09 < dx> 07:01 < Grum> its not legal ever
12:09 < dx> Grum: why not? it will be if you put a proper license
12:10 <+ammar2> Amaranth: step 1. make jvm proposal to add bytecode instruction for comments, step 2. strip comment stripping from javac, step 3. wait till changes propogate to mojang
12:11 < AlphaBlend> purely for aesthetics, because aesthetics rule
12:11 < dx> don't they compile for java 6? good luck getting new bytecode instructions
12:11 < AlphaBlend> hah
12:11 < AlphaBlend> java 8
12:11 <+ammar2> dx: wait patiently.
12:11 < dx> very patiently.
12:13 < dx> ammar2: think we'll get minecraft compiled against java 8 before grum decides to stop keeping obfuscation because he "said so"?
12:14 <+ammar2> dx: we'll sooner have half life 3 ;)
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12:14 < dx> hmm, if we could predict the existence of java 15, then we could safely confirm half life 3
12:15 < dx> let's hope oracle doesn't go bankrupt any time soon
12:15 <+md_5> oh its nearly lunch time in sweden
12:15  * md_5 wonders what mojang has coded this morning
12:15 <+md_5> HELL OF A LOT surely
12:15 < Grum> i've fixed lots of missing textures =)
12:15 < AlphaBlend> md_5: So how's that move from bukkit to MCP going?
12:15 < Grum> while listening to some weird people whine on irc ;)
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12:16 <+md_5> AlphaBlend nicely did a lot of work today
12:16 <+md_5> designed our new config
12:16 <+md_5> and cleaned up some stuff
12:16 < AlphaBlend> md_5: I saw the thread on your forums a bit late, but I wanted to see it at some point
12:16 < AlphaBlend> we used to use spigot
12:16 < AlphaBlend> i mean well
12:16 < AlphaBlend> no
12:16 <+md_5> next stage will be porting to the new config
12:16 <+md_5> then we will go from there
12:16 < AlphaBlend> we pulled spigot code into our custom builds
12:16 < AlphaBlend> but there came a time we had a ton of lag in our server
12:16 < AlphaBlend> why? i don't know why
12:17 < AlphaBlend> but I wanted to do a fresh start, so we removed spigot, and kept only noteworthy changes of our own in there
12:17 < AlphaBlend> I think it was a bit better
12:17 < AlphaBlend> not to say your code really did anything bad, but i still wanted to experiment
12:17 <+md_5> AlphaBlend I'm working more onto breaking spigot stuff into its own patches even further
12:17 < AlphaBlend> meh we still had it from time to time
12:17 <+md_5> and once the new config is in place
12:18 <+md_5> you should be able to remove / add most patches without breaking sutff
12:18 <+md_5> stuff
12:18 < dx> neat
12:18 < AlphaBlend> this patching concept in terms of adding code is foreign to me when it comes to server development
12:18 < AlphaBlend> is this just simply replacing our file with yours?
12:19 < AlphaBlend> say, if we were using spigot
12:19 <+md_5> its replacing bits of a file
12:19 < Grum> the patching is what you get on a static codebase
12:20 < dx> it's not like you can refactor core components that spigot touches with an API anyway
12:20 < AlphaBlend> hm
12:21 < AlphaBlend> i've kept myself up for a conversation I really wanted to participate in
12:21 < AlphaBlend> and it worked
12:21 < AlphaBlend> so now i don't feel really tired, but I shouldn't pull an all-nighter either
12:29 <+md_5> thats all folks
12:30 < AlphaBlend> yeah
12:30 < AlphaBlend> well later today's another time to have another discussion, for me at least
12:31 < AlphaBlend> i thoroughly enjoyed the one we had earlier, a lot of information and a lot of fun it was
12:31 < AlphaBlend> but i should go to bed now
12:31 < AlphaBlend> and i will, so afk ;p
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12:49 < SinZ> Grum: Why does the new launcher send the client the version?
12:49 < SinZ> yet there are places in the client you still hard-code version number
12:53 < Grum> SinZ: that is just the profile version
12:53 < Grum> so we can send that back in the snooperdata, crashreports
12:54 < Grum> and flatout deny tickets that do not have a version that is ours =)
12:54 < SinZ> heh
12:55 < Grum> also it wouldn't make sense to distill the version from that
12:57 <+md_5> this is why you kee the version the same when making mods
12:58 < Grum> yup so version != profile == good indication of 'modded' ;P
12:58 < Grum> also flatout deny all those tickets
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12:58 < jast> also flat out deny all tickets
12:58 <+md_5> ^^
12:58 < Grum> nah just the ones that are invalid :)
12:59 < jast> less work if you deny everything
12:59 < jast> can be automated even
12:59 < jast> win-win!
12:59 < Grum> but then we could shutdown the ticketing system!
12:59 < Grum> and then we wouldnt get whines when it would break ;)
12:59 < Grum> win-win-win!
12:59 < jast> nah, that'd be boring
12:59 < Grum> you know, i just realized that we're storing the texturefile within the serverdata ......
12:59 < Grum> ./cry
12:59 < Grum> now i have to refactor that :P
12:59 < jast> sell snake oil instead of products. no work but still $$$. win⁴!
13:01 < jast> snake vapour, in fact. nothing's cheaper and less work than that.
13:01 < Grum> oh god pbunny msgs me
13:01 < SinZ> yeh we all get it
13:01 < SinZ> we just ignore it now though
13:02 < jast> I have a 100% reliable methodology for selling snake vapour with zero effort and making billions. I can share it with you for the sensationally low price of $897, but only if you order within the next ten minutes
13:02 < jast> there's also an affiliate system so I don't have to do my own marketing
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13:03 < Grum> can it get two for 898?
13:03 < jast> aww, pbunny has never messaged me :( I feel left out
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13:04 < Grum> i suggetsed to msg you jast
13:04 < SinZ> from memory he still has a spy in here, so don't worry
13:08 < Grum> apparently you are a crying schoolboy
13:08 < Grum> i mean, i totally agree
13:08 < Grum> pbunnyforpresident
13:10 < jast> me?
13:10 < jast> yeah, totally
13:10 < Grum> nah SinZ and dav1d orso
13:10 < TobiX> Grum: You should really install the Jira-Minecraft integration plugin. Then: Closing tickets with TNT!
13:10 < Grum> tnt? pfft ;P
13:11 < SinZ> super charged creepers
13:11 < jast> new captcha system: to file a ticket, please implement $thingamajig in redstone in the box provided below
13:18 < Grum> the captcha should be: help this newbie in a friendly and kind way
13:18 < Grum> then we'd not have ANY tickets
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13:24 < SinZ> Grum: http://screencloud.net/v/1Oms This is the captcha you need, pbunny would aprove!
13:25 < Grum> not getting it :(
13:25 < SinZ> apparently it was a 9, and you are not human if you didn't get it
13:26 < Grum> ah i see
13:27 <+md_5> lol thats the one I couldnt figure out
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14:40 < dav1d> Grum: yo?
14:41 < dav1d> what happened?^^
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14:44 <+pdelvo> znc stinks. my bouncer cannot connect to freenode and I have no idea why
14:45 < dav1d> pdelvo: works fine here!
14:45 < dav1d> znc ftw!
14:46 < unnicked943> znc is a piece of bug
14:46 < unnicked943> never worked well for me
14:46 <+ammar2> doesn't work well for me, clearly its terrible
14:46 < unnicked943> dav1d is probably a troll
14:47 < dav1d> ammar2: sure, everything I am too stuipid to install sucks
14:47 <+pdelvo> the znc webinterface is slow as hell :/
14:47 < dav1d> pdelvo: really? :O
14:47 < dav1d> pdelvo: which version?
14:48 <+pdelvo> ZNC 0.206r2
14:48 < dav1d> pdelvo: then you complain, lol
14:48 <+pdelvo> when I ping freenode from my server I get a ping < 1ms so this is not the problem
14:48 < dav1d> pdelvo: 1.x is the up to date
14:48 <+pdelvo> it worked for months without a problem
14:49 < dav1d> and you don't have multi-server support pfft
14:49 < dav1d> if you want I can host an account for you, I have a nifty webchat connected to the znc :P
14:50 < unnicked943> and i can host paypal for you
14:50 < unnicked943> paypal account, that is
14:50 <+pdelvo> the windows build of znc always need months to get updated. "March 2013: For everyone who's asking about 1.x coming to Windows: don't give up hope, I'll be working on it as soon as upstream releases the first post-1.0 version! "
14:50 < dav1d> pdelvo: I had to compile it for my debian, was easy and done in a few mins
14:51 < unnicked943> lol, debian
14:51 < dav1d> sadimusi pls
14:51 < Calinou> unnicked943: +1 :>
14:52 < dav1d> clop Calinou 
14:52 < Calinou> clop dav1d 
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15:05 < SinZ> dav1d: my znc installation was very easy on ubuntu
15:05 < dav1d> SinZ: debian *old* stable :P
15:05 < dav1d> nothing in the packets
15:06 < dav1d> *no packet in the repositorie
15:06 < dav1d> s
15:07 < unnicked943> why use outdated software?
15:10 < dav1d> oh dear
15:14 < jast> bleeding edge vs stability, yada yada
15:15 < unnicked943> mac is stable
15:15 < unnicked943> and bleeding edge
15:15 < unnicked943> linux is for people without money
15:15 < unnicked943> :>
15:16 < jast> and I use it anyway. confusing...
15:18 <+AndrewPH> <*status> ZNC 0.206 - http://znc.in
15:18 <+AndrewPH> I should update...
15:19 < dav1d> ZNC 1.0 - http://znc.in
15:19 < dav1d> yay
15:19 < jast> irssi
15:19 < dav1d> pfft
15:19 < jast> aw man, odd one out
15:19 < dav1d> irssi worst irc client eva! :D
15:20 < dav1d> irc client war pls
15:20 < Yoshi2> chatzilla > all
15:20 < zutto> II>weechat>irssi>* !
15:20 < dav1d> ^
15:20 < jast> jirc! (does that exist? bound to, right?)
15:21 < zutto> yeah, theres client named jirc
15:21 < dav1d> jastirc?
15:21 < jast> nah
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15:28 < dav1d> o/
15:28 <+pdelvo> o/
15:29 < Yoshi2> o/
15:29 < dav1d> watching etho doing computercraft is horrible
15:30 < dav1d> "does capitalization matter" ...
15:30 <+pdelvo> I saw that too :D But I used sleep(1000) first too because everywhere else it is messured in ms :D
15:30 <+pdelvo> in visual basic it doesnt matter ;)
15:31 < unnicked943> in visual basic it doesn't matter what you code, you will get shit at the end anyway
15:31 < dav1d> do lua indices start at 1?
15:31 <+pdelvo> jeah
15:31 < jast> just like in matlab \o/
15:32 < Yoshi2> in visual basic you can hide everything with a pretty gui
15:32 < Yoshi2> and damn, it annoys me to no end that indices in lua start at 1
15:32 < mbaxter_> So wait
15:32 <+pdelvo> pUbLiC cLaS tEsT is valid :D
15:32 < dav1d> I bet you can redfine an integer which increments itself automatically
15:32 < dav1d> :P
15:33 < jast> in perl, $[ = 1
15:33 < jast> endless fun!
15:33 < jast> in fact you can set $[ to 500 to have arrays start at index 500
15:33 < jast> this whole feature is deprecated though :(
15:34 < dav1d> because it is stuipid^^
15:35 <+pdelvo> Lets test what happens if you write a dll in c# which has a class in it with two fields "test" and "Test" and reference it in visual basic
15:35 < dav1d> also rubies method_missing
15:35 < dav1d> *rubys
15:35 < dav1d> whatever stuipid english
15:35 < jast> ruby allows plenty of insanity
15:36 < dav1d> which is cool, but if you wanna use it productivly it is insane
15:36 < dav1d> (is that even a word...)
15:38 <+pdelvo> hihi 'test' is ambiguous because multiple kinds of members with this name exist in class 'Test.TestClass'.
15:38 < jast> I made this thing for ruby a LONG time ago: http://heapsort.de/circus/doc/classes/Hookable.html
15:41 < dav1d> jast: I want that in D :(
15:41 < jast> tough luck
15:41 < dav1d> would be possible via vtable manipulation but though
15:42 < dav1d> I guess
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15:48 < jast> here's the code in case you want to port it to D ;) http://vpaste.net/mhAcH
15:48 < jast> written 2004
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15:57 < TobiX> dav1d: method_missing, see also: "WAT?"
15:57 < dav1d> that talk is meh
15:57 < dav1d> JS behaviour he showed actually makes a bit sense, there is a lot worse
16:01 < dav1d> TIL youtube, eating, irc → quality of my english ↓
16:02 < mbaxter_> dx: RIP TagAPI.
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19:14 <+sadimusi> anybody with an iOS dev account and free UDID slots around?
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20:15 < workshifter> anyone know if mc's worldgen works by generating individual 16x16x16 chunks at a time, or if it generates an entire Y column given X,Z?
20:19 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/gx1QgA
20:19 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde 410d7d0 - fix queues mutexes, they were horribly wrong
20:19 < dav1d> ok nice notifico, but I did not push that
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20:22 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde tagged 4b99b4e as None http://git.io/VWJzRg
20:28 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±3] http://git.io/Ucz19g
20:28 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde 3517e9c - minor tweaks -> dmd 2.063
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21:02 < clonejo1> workshifter: I think it does full columns, but I do not know for sure.
21:04 <+SirCmpwn> workshifter: it does 16x256x16 chunks at a time, I believe
21:08 < Thinkofdeath> Isn't it 16x128x16 because the generation code wasn't changed?
21:08 <+SirCmpwn> yeah
21:08 <+SirCmpwn> effectively 256, though
21:09 < workshifter> cool, thanks
21:09 < workshifter> returned data in the standard chunk sector format?
21:09 < workshifter> or an array?
21:10 <+SirCmpwn> I have no knowledge of implementation details
21:17 < workshifter> darn. any suggestions where i might find out?
21:17 <+SirCmpwn> the vanilla code
21:18 <+SirCmpwn> why are the implementation details important?
21:18 < workshifter> because i'm in the process of converting my current region-sized worldgen into an infinite chunk-based generator
21:19 < workshifter> unless bukkit makes adding algos as simple as it seemed
21:21 <+SirCmpwn> I fail to see why you need to know exactly how vanilla does it to accomplish this
21:21 < workshifter> well then tell me the modern way to accomplish it :p
21:21 < workshifter> i'm open to suggestions, i was just running on the premise of "replacing the skylands algo"
21:21 <+SirCmpwn> just do it yourself, why is it important to know the method signatures vanilla uses
21:22 < workshifter> ...so i know what my algo should return?
21:22 <+SirCmpwn> will you be directly interfacing with vanilla code?
21:22 < workshifter> i don't know!
21:22 < workshifter> that's why i asked if there's a better way
21:22 < workshifter> lol
21:23 <+SirCmpwn> then why does it matter what you return
21:23 <+SirCmpwn> if vanilla minecraft isn't involved
21:23 < workshifter> because it's gonna be called by something
21:23 <+SirCmpwn> wait, are you a modder? asking for modding advice?
21:23 < workshifter> and i'd like to build this code to match the effective code that will be needed when i deploy this to my server
21:23 < workshifter> i'm a programmer trying to convert a custom worldgen algorithm into something i can use on my server
21:24 <+SirCmpwn> is your server vanilla or bukkit or something else
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21:24 < workshifter> bukkit
21:24 <+SirCmpwn> then this is not the channel for you
21:24 <+SirCmpwn> we don't do that stuff, we mostly make our own things, from scratch
21:24 <+SirCmpwn> you want #bukkitdev on irc.esper.net
21:25 < workshifter> so you're telling me that bukkit deals with terrain gen differently enough from vanilla to warrant not even considering vanilla given that i have a bukkit server?
21:26 <+SirCmpwn> I have no clue
21:26 <+SirCmpwn> I can only think of a couple people in here that know anything about bukkit, and a couple more that know enough about the vanilla code to help you
21:26 <+SirCmpwn> #bukkitdev will be much more helpful
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21:38 < dx> the channel name is a lie
21:39 < dx> most people here do development of everything except the official minecraft client/server
21:40 < Yoshi2> it's half false, half true
21:40 < dx> well the topic describes it accurately
21:41 < dx> "related to minecraft", not minecraft itself
21:41 <+SirCmpwn> what would you call the channel
21:41 <+SirCmpwn> #projects-that-are-related-to-minecraft-but-not-actually-minecraft
21:41 < dx> #nessus-ms
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21:42 <+SirCmpwn> wat
21:42 < dx> heh nevermind
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21:43 < dx> #mcdevs is fine, and on irc it's extremely common to get people asking stuff in the wrong channel, so whatever.
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22:47 < mbaxter> So uh. Colors.
22:48 < dx> colors!
22:48 < mbaxter> Will the change also break the ability to color signs?
22:54 < dx> grum did state that he wanted to kill § everywhere
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01:24 <+SpaceManiac> hm
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03:44 < TkTech> I think the channel ended up attracting from-scratch people because it was originally a channel for us to discuss the protocol changes on my wiki.
03:45 < TkTech> Which wasn't of much interest to the early modders, pre and post MCP.
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18:49 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/dnplYw
18:49 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 8531855 - updated glamour
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18:54 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/KLbRKQ
18:54 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde bbf534b - updated glamour
18:54 < dav1d> rebase ftw
18:57 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/YMuxAQ
18:57 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 8143850 - updated glwtf
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21:44 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 3 commits to master [+1/-0/±9] http://git.io/3xjdEQ
21:44 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 350959f - implement a renderer concept, ever shader, sampler, texture is bound to a name
21:44 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 3964b62 - WIP
21:44 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 8e97f77 - fix minor bugs, begin to implement deferred rendering
21:45 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±6] http://git.io/5qc0KA
21:45 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 5eb6fae - fix minor bugs, begin to implement deferred rendering
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21:54 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/FE4UwA
21:54 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde d4297ba - updated makefile
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13:32 < SimSonic> Hello all, I have a problem with decryption again. After server and client enables encryption via AES (I'm the server and have received AES Symmetric Key) Client sends 2 bytes for me (I know that they are 0xCD and 0x00) but I cannot decrypt them in right way. AES requires 16 bytes block, I have only 2. Should I pad them or what?!?
13:32 <+sadimusi> use CFB
13:32 <+sadimusi> what language are you using?
13:34 < SimSonic> C++, Microsoft's CNG API, BCryptDecrypt function
13:36 <+sadimusi> I'm sure you can somehow pass a cipher mode when creating the cipher instance
13:37 <+sadimusi> use CFB with 8 bit block size
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14:00 < SimSonic> sadimusi, thanks! it is working! The error was that I've set CFB mode after importing session key, but should do it before!
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18:23 < Thinkofdeath> Looks like TagAPI lives for now http://i.imgur.com/DzXJEpD.png
18:24 < SinZ> heh, Gru.m lied to us then
18:24 < barneygale> TagAPI?
18:24 < Thinkofdeath> barneygale: http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-mods/tag/
18:25 < Thinkofdeath> Works by changing the player's name in the spawn player packet to include colour codes
18:25 < SinZ> which gru.m said wasn't possible, and if it was, he was going to remove it
18:26 < Thinkofdeath> Although I guess teams could replace it anyway
18:26 < SinZ> teams cant set your playername to a colour AFAIK
18:26 < Thinkofdeath> Using the team prefix you can/could
18:27 < SinZ> but does it allow colour codes, thats the thing
18:27 <+pdelvo> it does as far as I know
18:28 < Thinkofdeath> Also it looks like the MC|TPack plugin channel is still in the code but doesn't work anymore
18:34 < SinZ> might need to ask dinnerbro what it changed to
18:35 < Thinkofdeath> I looked for any new channels but I couldn't find any
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18:35 < Thinkofdeath> It also doesn't work on the vanilla server
18:35 < mbaxter> Thinkofdeath: YAY!
18:36 < Thinkofdeath> mbaxter: :)
18:36 < mbaxter> And I like having TagAPI functionality separate from teams because then you can give a player a color AND put them on a team.
18:36 < Thinkofdeath> True
18:36 < Grum> <SinZ> heh, Gru.m lied to us then <-- i am going to remove it, I surely didn't mention a time right?
18:37  * SinZ opens logs
18:38 < mbaxter> Is there any benefit to removing it as long as the same color definitions exist?
18:38 < Thinkofdeath> Grum: Btw since the doDayLight game rule works by setting the dayTime in the time packet to negative. It doesn't work with time 0
18:39 < Grum> mbaxter: yes, we dont want to parse that old shit anymore
18:40 < barneygale> I'm confused. Are we saying name colours will be possible, but via the new json markup?
18:40 < barneygale> or they're being removed altogether?
18:41 < Grum> not though the old way, maybe using markup
18:41 < barneygale> I'm sure oc.tc and similar servers would appreciate being able to display 16-character coloured names
18:51 < dx> yeah, apparently the 1.6.0 release will still parse chat packets using §
18:51 < dx> but grum wants to nuke it asap
18:56 <+SirCmpwn> does it hurt anything, allowing that to work?
18:56 <+SirCmpwn> nuking legacy support for no reason is silly
18:59 < SinZ> it would simply remove a feature in some spots, like books and motd
19:02 < barneygale> oh Grum, I have a similar question for you. The current server lets you write colour codes in stdin, e.g. you can write "say §4hello world!". Will this disappear? I assume there's no way to replace it with the json stuff
19:02 < Yoshi2> Books, the MotD, signs and other places where text is put out if I forgot anything
19:02 < barneygale> yeah signs is an important one
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19:10 <+SirCmpwn> sadimusi: have you fixed burger yet?
19:14 < Grum> barneygale: yes no 'client' can use colors
19:14 < Grum> that includes the console
19:16 < Thinkofdeath> Grum: Works currently though
19:16 < Grum> it does
19:16 < Grum> we hope to break it before 1.6 we might break it after
19:17 < Thinkofdeath> Oh ok then
19:17 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: let colored signs/books stay colored
19:17 < Grum> no?
19:17 < Grum> we're stopping the complete '§' handling
19:18 < barneygale> With no replacement?
19:18 < Thinkofdeath> "<Grum> not though the old way, maybe using markup" I guess he means using a new system
19:18 < Grum> there is nothing that actually offered it as a feature tbh :)
19:26 < ShaRose> should have a way to do coloured signs though
19:28 < barneygale> yeah defo
19:30 < SinZ> you could copy+paste the funky S in books
19:30 < SinZ> and escape it for motd
19:31 < barneygale> Aye .properties files support more than some people realise heh
19:32 < SinZ> and MC version that first added languages, using german keyboard, you could type it directly, and it looked really cool, as if it was an intended feature
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19:33 < barneygale> it's a key on mac keyboards
19:33 < barneygale> which I think is why notch picked it - needed something typable but rarely-used
19:33 < SinZ> in classic it was &
19:33 < Calinou> §
19:34 < Calinou> french keyboards have this
19:34 < barneygale> I figured it changed because & was too common? I don't know - I'm too late for classic
19:34 < Calinou> IMO I'd like to see more finetunable color codes, how about this:
19:34 < Calinou> eg. ^F0F8 for half-transparent pink
19:35 < Calinou> 16-color system is bad and you should feel bad
19:35 < Calinou> it's hard to remember them
19:36 < Grum> its just math
19:36 < Grum> you just fail; and you should feel bad
19:36 < SinZ> 0-8 for dark colours
19:36 < SinZ> 9-F for bright colours
19:36 < Calinou> yes, but which
19:36 < Calinou> I only remember b and c, and I often mix these around
19:36 < Calinou> see, I have to bring some chart with me.
19:36 < Calinou> with 4 bit hexadecimal you don't
19:36 < SinZ> back in the day I knew them
19:37 < Calinou> you just calculate it in your head
19:37 < Calinou> see
19:37 < SinZ> but I haven't touched colour codes in over a year now
19:37 < Calinou> and people complain I'm a stupid 4channer
19:50 < Grum> see SinZ, that is how much you 'need' them ;)
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20:23 < barneygale> Calinou: as wiki.vg/Chat mentions, it very roughly follows terminal colours
20:23 < Calinou> since when these are easy to remember
20:23 < Calinou> I don't even know how to use colors in terminal :P
20:24 < barneygale> neither of them were designed to be easy to remember
20:24 < barneygale> only to have a (relatively) straightforward format
20:25 < barneygale> tbh I was disappointed when bold/italics/etc were added as separate codes. Should be chainable IMO, like terminal colours
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23:58 < shoghicp> The work of the MCPE channel ;) http://www.wiki.vg/Pocket_Realms
23:58 < shoghicp> Brandon15811 ^
23:58 < Brandon15811> :D
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09:21 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±9] http://git.io/xry6RQ
09:21 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath f336bef - Removed old debugging code from metadata
09:21 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 36f82d9 - Added SpawnFor and DespawnFor events Updated snapshot version
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15:11 < dav1d> pdelvo: if you're wondering what just happened, I have no idea
15:13 < Yoshi2> dav1d: something happened?
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15:13 < dav1d> Yoshi2: znc related, got somehow disconnect from whole freenode for a splitsecond
15:14 < dav1d> but only freenode
15:14 < Yoshi2> ah
15:17 < dav1d> "Before performing this update, you may want to ensure you have a second terminal open with root privileges in the unlikely event of an emergency, particularly if updating over ssh."
15:17 < dav1d> yay
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15:30 <+clonejo> dav1d: Since that update, only the fallback kernel works for me.
15:31 <+clonejo> In the default kernel the LVM block devices do not appear in /dev
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15:35 < dav1d> clonejo: phew, I don't have lvm configured
15:35 <+clonejo> lucky you
15:35 < dav1d> clonejo: ha! I just updated to dmd 2.063
15:35 < dav1d> clonejo: segfault
15:35 <+clonejo> xD
15:35 < dav1d> gosh I hate it
15:35 <+clonejo> Don't the developers know about the problem?
15:36 < dav1d> clonejo: no idea what change, gotta figure it out, gotta make a bugreport, hope for a fix, or fix it myself or workaround it
15:39 < unnicked410> write a patch
15:40 < dav1d> clonejo: maybe I can fix/workaround it
15:40 < dav1d> oh yeah pbunnys tips, helpful as usual
15:40 <+clonejo> The problem seems pretty complex
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15:42 < dav1d> the current gc is a mess
15:42 < dav1d> try to take a look into core.gc, a mess and I have no clue how it exactly works
15:42 <+clonejo> There was a GC talk at DConf
15:43 <+clonejo> afaik it also explains how GC is currently done
15:43 < dav1d> clonejo: there are even two
15:43 < dav1d> I know what algorithms etc it uses, but no idea how it is implemtented
15:45 <+clonejo> Can you reproduce the segfault with a minimal example?
15:49 < dav1d> clonejo: never
15:49 < dav1d> it's brala^^
15:49 < dav1d> whenever I try to reduce it, it works
15:49 <+clonejo> I would report it.
15:52 < dav1d> currently reducing it^^
15:52 <+clonejo> :-)
15:54 < unnicked410> dav1d: then reduce it to the point where it starts working and leave it there
15:54 < dav1d> ah yeah reducing ~40-50k lines of code, nearly every piece depends on another
15:54 < dav1d> especially GC issues.. which randomly kicks in
15:55 < dav1d> clonejo: ever heared of dustmite?
15:55 < dav1d> https://github.com/CyberShadow/DustMite amazing tool
15:55 <+clonejo> dav1d: nope
15:56 <+clonejo> awesome idea
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16:34 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 4 commits to master [+3/-0/±9] http://git.io/H9gvZA
16:34 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 7afbca3 - fixed deferred renderer
16:34 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 99fdc5f - allow to set the renderer type
16:34 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 8761f09 - shutdown game on engine shutdown
16:34 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 5c690a8 - update glwtf, dmd 2.063 stuff
16:34 < dav1d> clonejo: I think I fixed it, wanna try it sometime?
16:36 <+clonejo> dav1d: sure
16:38 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/0yZMEg
16:38 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde b72baa6 - get rid of deprectaion warnings
16:39 <+clonejo> dav1d: works!
16:40 < dav1d> cool
16:40 <+clonejo> What did you change?
16:44 < dav1d> clonejo: https://github.com/Dav1dde/glwtf/commit/c57540544623a3f61328db4245c5719b7af68f0b
16:44 < dav1d> struct → class :(
16:48 <+clonejo> okay
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17:44 < Aaron> hi
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17:44 -!- Guest34519 is now known as Aaron00
17:44 < Aaron00> hi
17:46 < Aaron00> I just started working on a MC server. I can login (no world loaded yet though), but I try to set the player's spawn point. However I always spawn 0,63,0
17:46 < Aaron00> Anyone had this too?
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17:48 < Thinkofdeath> Aaron00: Setting the spawn point only controls the compass.
17:49 < Thinkofdeath> Aaron00: http://wiki.vg/Protocol#0x0D Controls the position
17:49 < Aaron00> Ah, really? Thanks 
17:49 < Aaron00> Already implemented 0x0D, I'll try sending that after the login
17:51 <+SirCmpwn> Aaron00: where's your github?
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17:52 < Aaron00> https://github.com/maser00/MineSharp/blob/master/MineSharp/Handlers/MovementHandlers.cs
17:53 < Aaron00> it some commits behind though
17:53 <+SirCmpwn> ooh, C# :D
17:53 <+SirCmpwn> you've seen Craft.Net, I'm sure?
17:53 <+SirCmpwn> it'll be a good resource for questions like your last
17:54 < Aaron00> First "real" project of mine (except some stupid easy projects and such) :p
17:54 < Aaron00> yes
17:54 <+SirCmpwn> suggestion: make it more modular
17:54 < Aaron00> but I try not to look at it, to prevent copying code
17:54 <+SirCmpwn> copy as much as you want, it's MIT licensed
17:55 < Aaron00> what exactly do you mean by more modular?
17:55 <+SirCmpwn> split it up
17:55 < Aaron00> yeah, working on that :p
17:55 <+SirCmpwn> look at C.N again, note how the server, networking, anvil world editing, etc, are all their own projects
17:56 < Aaron00> ok
17:56 < Aaron00> thanks
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18:37 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 9 commits to master [+0/-0/±29] http://git.io/xssMYA
18:37 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath c6ee44c - Fixed nil pointer on disconnect
18:37 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath fd70878 - Clean up
18:37 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 1a2e7bb - Entity Spawn event (Fixes #10)
18:37 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 973f321 - Allowed entities to be removed (Fixes #56)
18:37 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath e815b46 - Entity despawn event (Fixes #11)
18:37 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath d5bac41 - Added player left click event (Fixes #14)
18:37 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 1ac6e9a - Block place event (Fixes #18)
18:37 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 15f7ae9 - Added event player right click (Fixes #15)
18:37 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 48a56ef - Added player block break event (Fixes #19)
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20:11 < xy> Hello, does someone know in which vanilla class the spawning of endermen is handled in?
20:17 < dav1d> hi xy!
20:17 < dav1d> grep -Rl nderm
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20:20 < xy> dav1d: i did that but didn't find it
20:21 < dav1d> too bad :P
20:21 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±3] http://git.io/ercfJQ
20:21 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 24228f1 - don't mark chunks dirty when removing world
20:21 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 0ceb43a - store more information in fbo
20:24 < Thinkofdeath> xy: Looks like its in BiomeGenBase
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21:20 < xy> Thinkofdeath: xy@daert:~/test/mc-dev$ find | grep BiomeGen
21:20 < xy> no results
21:21 < xy> the dir is git cloned from https://github.com/Bukkit/mc-dev/tree/master/net/minecraft/server
21:22 < xy> but thanks for the tip, i found it in BiomeBase
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21:25 <+SirCmpwn> xy: you probably want #mcp on irc.esper.net, we have very few experts on vanilla code here
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21:28 < xy> SirCmpwn: well, actually i just needed the class of which endermen spawning is managed to prove someone wrong who told me endermen were teleported to the overworld from the end in the game code
21:29 <+SirCmpwn> xy: that doesn't change my prior statement
21:29 < dav1d> lol
21:29 <+SirCmpwn> most of us aren't familiar with the vanilla code
21:29 < xy> hmm thanks for the tip tho ^^
21:30 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±4] http://git.io/Q0Ml4Q
21:30 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde fc87771 - update build_brala.d for 2.063
21:30 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 613f9d8 - fix stairs and slabs?
21:33 <+SirCmpwn> commits with question marks are better left uncommitted
21:34 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: no this is intended :P
21:34 < dx> sometimes you need to push experimental stuff, so why not
21:34 < dav1d> my server is called "I hate stairs" for a reason
21:34 < dav1d> dx: actually it was a fix :P
21:34 < dx> lol
21:34 <+SirCmpwn> hah
21:35 < dx> dav1d: a fix that you suspect that might not be enough?
21:35 < dav1d> texturing stairs correctly is not as easy as it might sound
21:35 < dav1d> dx: it looks correct
21:35 <+SirCmpwn> maybe I should try building brala again
21:35 < dav1d> but there might be a messed up texture somewhere
21:35 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: :)
21:35 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: pdelvo got it easily working on windows
21:35 <+SirCmpwn> does it still compare to pulling out your toenails with pliers
21:35 <+SirCmpwn> I'm not on windows
21:35 < dav1d> since when!
21:36 < dav1d> this is great news, welcome SirCmpwn to the linuxy side!
21:36 < dx> everyone assumes C# development == windows :D
21:36 <+SirCmpwn> sircmpwn@picard ~ $ uptime
21:36 <+SirCmpwn>  13:36:09 up 3 days, 16 min,  3 users,  load average: 1.00, 0.88, 0.77
21:36 < dav1d> dx: pfft he used it for a looong time
21:36 <+SirCmpwn> I'm not new to linux, dav1d
21:36 < dx> 3 days == not new
21:36 < dx> :3
21:36 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: I know, but you used windows all the time :P
21:36 <+SirCmpwn> that's my uptime, dx :P
21:37 < dx> yeah, no idea why you posted that, so i just jumped to that conclusion
21:37 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: which distribution?
21:37 <+SirCmpwn> dx: he asked how long I'd been using linux for, the current run is apparently 3 days
21:37 <+SirCmpwn> dav1d: mint
21:37 < dx> SirCmpwn: lolol
21:37 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: https://code.google.com/p/d-apt/wiki/APT_Repository
21:37 < Yoshi2> three days sure does sound like a lot ;)
21:38 < dav1d> oh wait, I wrote that in my readme
21:38 <+SirCmpwn> I already feel like getting brala working is still going to be a chore
21:38 < dav1d> https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa#ubuntudebian-based-systems :D
21:39 < dav1d> Prf_Jakob: why are you passing max. 10 normals to the shader?
21:39 < dav1d> Prf_Jakob: shouldn't be 6 sufficient?
21:40 <+Prf_Jakob> dav1d: plants.
21:40 <+SirCmpwn> >The following commands might depend on your current graphics driver, for mesa this would be:
21:40 < dav1d> Prf_Jakob: right!
21:40 < dav1d> thanks
21:40 <+SirCmpwn> dav1d: how about for nvidia proprietary drivers
21:40 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: should just work
21:40 < dav1d> (I hope)
21:40 <+SirCmpwn> skip those packages?
21:41 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: libxrandr-dev
21:41 < dav1d> you probably need that one
21:41 <+SirCmpwn> cloning
21:42 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: run "make glfw" before anything else
21:42 <+SirCmpwn> dammit dav1d
21:42 < dav1d> if it fails, you need more headers
21:42 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: mh?
21:42 <+SirCmpwn> I already started make
21:42 < dav1d> then let it continue
21:42 <+SirCmpwn> dammit dav1d
21:42 < dav1d> xD
21:42 <+SirCmpwn> I already deleted the directory and started recloning
21:43 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: make clean
21:43 <+SirCmpwn> dammit dav1d
21:43 < dav1d> well make clean-all
21:43 < dav1d> :)
21:43 < dav1d> I should probably documentate the makefile
21:43 <+SirCmpwn> why aren't you using configure and shit
21:43 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: are you serious?
21:43 <+SirCmpwn> maybe
21:43 <+SirCmpwn> I don't do native development on linux often, you tell me
21:44 < dav1d> configure to run would take longer than the actual compilation
21:44 < dav1d> CMake would be an option, but no idea how this works together with D
21:44 <+SirCmpwn> you're face
21:44 < dav1d> is amazing
21:44 < dav1d> thanks, I know
21:45 <+SirCmpwn> it opened on the wrong display
21:45 <+SirCmpwn> and stole my mouse
21:45 <+SirCmpwn> pressing esc made it exit
21:45 < dav1d> wrong display?
21:46 <+SirCmpwn> monitor
21:46 <+SirCmpwn> I have four of them, it opened on the one across the room
21:46 < dav1d> yeah no multi-monitor support
21:46 <+SirCmpwn> how about "move the window" support
21:46 < dav1d> lol get the fuck outta here, 4 monitors
21:46 < dav1d> I have one small
21:46 < dav1d> ^^
21:46 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: mh? you can't move the window?
21:46 <+SirCmpwn> not if it stole my mouse
21:47 <+SirCmpwn> I don't use a fancy wm that can move windows with the keyboard
21:47 < dav1d> ah I see, a way to ungrab the mouse mh
21:47 < dav1d> well yeah, ESC will do it once there is a guy, but alt-tab should work?
21:47 <+SirCmpwn> really
21:47 <+SirCmpwn> you can do better than that
21:47 < dav1d> actually no
21:48 < dav1d> that is a current glfw limitation (except dreda fixed it)
21:48 <+SirCmpwn> it works, but painfully
21:48 <+SirCmpwn> the mouse sensitivity is really, really low
21:48 <+SirCmpwn> and when I move around, the view will sometimes jump all of a sudden
21:49 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: do you see spikes in the "Frame-Time"?
21:49 <+SirCmpwn> where would I see that
21:49 < dav1d> in the console
21:49 < dav1d> (assuming you started brala from the console)
21:50 <+SirCmpwn> seems pretty stable
21:50 <+SirCmpwn> between 3 and 6 ms
21:51 < dav1d> means it runs at ~300 fps
21:51 < dav1d> btw
21:51 <+SirCmpwn> indeed
21:51 <+SirCmpwn> do you really have to log every time you free memory, by the way
21:51 < dav1d> mh if there are no lagspikes then the camera shouldn't jump
21:51 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: that's the debug loglevel
21:51 <+SirCmpwn> it happens as I move
21:52 < dav1d> can't be changed except you edit code (should probably change that)
21:52 <+SirCmpwn> camera jumping around happens as I move, that is
21:52 < dav1d> mh
21:52 <+SirCmpwn> it's not any sort of framerate lag, it's like the entire thing moves
21:53 < dav1d> gotta rewrite all of that anyways then I can investigate that further
21:53 <+SirCmpwn> mouse sensitivity is probably the biggest issue
21:53 <+SirCmpwn> I'm using a logitech G9x
21:53 < dav1d> yeah that's pretty slow
21:54 < dav1d> I'll add a config option, lemmy see if that fits into the current "design"
21:54 <+SirCmpwn> I see a distinct lack of UI
21:54 <+SirCmpwn> didn't you add that horrible dependency for it?
21:54 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: rm -rf'd
21:54 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: will either be "surfi" or a lightweight lua ui
21:54 < dav1d> I think it'll be the latter
21:55 <+SirCmpwn> I should learn lua
21:55 <+SirCmpwn> people seem to like it
21:55 < dav1d> adding luajit to the dependencies
21:55 < dav1d> but that's not a big deal
21:55 < dav1d> lua is nice for scripting, imo (actually never used it for more)
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21:56 <+SirCmpwn> what I should really do is finish the bloody refactoring branch in Craft.Net
21:56 <+SirCmpwn> stupid circular references
21:58 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±3] http://git.io/eIWgRQ
21:58 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 3abfadd - add mouse-sensitivity as option
21:58 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: res/brala.conf – game.mouse.sensitivity
21:59 < dav1d> and yeah I also get that stottering if I increase the sensitivity a bit
22:00 <+SirCmpwn> much better, dav1d
22:00 <+SirCmpwn> I increased it to 50 and it works fine
22:00 < dav1d> 50? wow
22:00 < dav1d> I have to investigate that
22:00 <+SirCmpwn> add movement speed?
22:00 < dav1d> 15 is too much for me
22:00 <+SirCmpwn> moves a bit slow, too
22:00 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: no, this will be part of the "new" camera
22:01 <+SirCmpwn> k
22:01 < dav1d> it is creative speed atm
22:01 <+SirCmpwn> when do you plan on doing proper movement and such?
22:01 < dav1d> ha! good question
22:01 < dav1d> is on the todo list for a while now
22:01 <+SirCmpwn> you've got rendering pretty much down
22:01 <+SirCmpwn> need sky, clouds, maybe a few more models
22:01 < dav1d> hehe, currently rewriting most of that ;)
22:01 <+SirCmpwn> oh, lighting, too
22:01 < dav1d> to get awesome lighting and shadows n' stuff
22:02 < dav1d> want it to look similiar to charged :) http://imgur.com/a/YtHmf#0
22:03 <+SirCmpwn> "jumping" happens when I fly into blocks
22:03 < dav1d> ah haha
22:03 < dav1d> that is the server resetting your position
22:03 < dav1d> also the camera is currently at your feet
22:04 <+SirCmpwn> ah
22:05 <+SirCmpwn> well, it's looking good, dav1d 
22:05 <+SirCmpwn> keep it up
22:05 < dav1d> :)
22:07 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: wanna launch it with --renderer=forward and see if you get better performance?
22:08 <+SirCmpwn> I had great performance before
22:08 <+SirCmpwn> it's doing frames in about 1.4 milliseconds now
22:09 <+SirCmpwn> which is about twice as good
22:09 < dav1d> dammit
22:09 < dav1d> I was hoping it wasn't too much slower (I get here ~ the same performance)
22:11 <+SirCmpwn> dav1d: foward is the better one, that is
22:12 < dav1d> well, I'll try to implement both, fancy deferred, less fancy forward
22:12 <+SirCmpwn> I should spend more time working on my client
22:12 <+SirCmpwn> or any time, really
22:13 <+SirCmpwn> I'm not good with opengl :/
22:13 < dav1d> ha, me neither
22:14 <+SirCmpwn> you're far better than I am, apparently
22:14 <+SirCmpwn> I can't even get a textured cube on the screen
22:14 < dav1d> :)
22:14 < dav1d> yeah I know the basics, some basic lighting, but nothing fancy
22:15 < dav1d> learning without a proper resource is hard :/
22:15 <+SirCmpwn> there are about as many resources for D as there are for C#
22:15 < dav1d> correctly, nearly none
22:15 < dav1d> *correct
22:15 < dav1d> except a few good books which are really expensive :(
22:16 <+clonejo> dav1d: Can't you take any generic OpenGL book?
22:16 < dav1d> clonejo: they are expensive :P
22:16 < dav1d> starts at 50$
22:16 <+SirCmpwn> it seems that you have to pay your way into opengl skill
22:16 < dav1d> ends at ~360$
22:16 <+SirCmpwn> there are very few good resources online
22:16 < dav1d> na not really, most of that is really old
22:16 < dav1d> and deprecated
22:17 <+SirCmpwn> if you want to support older opengl versions, then you significantly complicate things, too
22:17 < dav1d> well opengl 2.0+ isn't too bad
22:17 < dav1d> opengl 2.0 has most of the stuff as extension
22:24 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/_SDACw
22:24 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 7d2d278 - readme, remove mesa opengl header
22:31 <+SirCmpwn> dav1d: so it wasn't that bad to build it this time
22:31 <+SirCmpwn> dav1d: well done
22:31 < dav1d> yeah :)
22:31 < dav1d> I tried to make it as easy as possible
22:31 <+SirCmpwn> it used to be horrible
22:31 < dav1d> haha :D
22:32 < dav1d> should also be relativly easy on windows
22:32 <+SirCmpwn> and you've got an extremely impressive framerate out of my computer
22:33 <+SirCmpwn> 700+ FPS
22:33 <+SirCmpwn> probably want to add vsync option
22:33 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: which graphics card?
22:33 <+SirCmpwn> nvidia gtx 670
22:33 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/fzfj5A
22:33 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 23d4718 - remove unused imports from build_brala.d
22:33 < dav1d> good idea
22:34 < dav1d> ah gotta improve my config-file handler first, having it fire callbacks on change :)
22:34 <+SirCmpwn> maybe you should add a more graceful way to release the mouse first
22:35 <+SirCmpwn> since you need to release the mouse to edit config files
22:35 <+SirCmpwn> (on most systems)
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22:39 < dav1d> :D
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22:42 <+SirCmpwn> dav1d: I'm gonna write a BraLa launcher for fun
22:42 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: cool :)
22:43 <+SirCmpwn> dav1d: add --session so I can just give you a session ID
22:43 < dav1d> but it'll probably obsolette once there is an ui :)
22:43 < dav1d> mh
22:43 <+SirCmpwn> oh, you're going to bundle it all up in one?
22:43 < dav1d> yes
22:43 <+SirCmpwn> ah, then nevermind
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22:44 < dav1d> hehe kk
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02:33 <+SpaceManiac> stupid full hard drive
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05:43 <+SirCmpwn> SpaceManiac: how big is your HDD
05:45 < SpaceManiac> 120G.. it wasn't really full, just some weird transient thing
05:45 < SpaceManiac> 100% usage; reboot, 31% usage
05:46 <+SirCmpwn> 120G?
05:46 <+SirCmpwn> hard drives are measured in terabytes these days, SpaceManiac
05:46 < SpaceManiac> it's an old machine
05:54 < nopresnik> .status
05:55 < nopresnik> .stats
05:55 < nopresnik> oh lol
05:55 < nopresnik> wrong channel xD
06:35 <+md_5> soo 
06:35 <+md_5> 0.12tb
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07:10 < dx> "measured in terabytes" but the biggest commercially available hdd is just 4tb
07:11 < dx> so that would only measure 1tb, 2tb, 3tb and 4tb disks without getting into 0.xx. really useful!
07:11 < dx> i guess i'm taking that a bit too seriously
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08:41 < SinZ> dx: well, noone will buy a hdd smaller than 1tb these days, but with SSDs, 120G is fine
08:48 < dx> SinZ: there's still a market for 500gb ones
08:49 < Yoshi2> as long as the price is right, I will gladly take a 500gb one
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09:02 <+AndrewPH> I have a 500GB one for all of my wii game backups
09:02 <+AndrewPH> every time a friend brings a game over, zschoop it's mine now
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09:25 < Yoshi2> that's what I used mine for as well some time ago, but then I really needed it to backup my PC's data, so I packed up the few games I liked to play the most, deleted the rest and now I only play them on Dolphin because looking at a blurred or pixelated screen is painful
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15:06 < dav1d> http://vp.dav1d.de/img/xsn :D
15:09 < dav1d> so blue!
15:35 < Thinkofdeath> I thought this would work for the json chat https://gist.github.com/thinkofdeath/26c0f191fe63d7dc6aa0
15:36 < Thinkofdeath> Everything comes out white
15:43 < dav1d> lol json
15:43 < dx> you should write §bthinkofdeath instead of just thinkofdeath
15:43 < dx> :3
15:44 < Thinkofdeath> I know
15:44 < dx> it was a joke
15:44 < Thinkofdeath> :)
15:45 < Thinkofdeath> I thought it should work but so far colours only work if set on the root of the json (without colour codes)
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15:47 < Thinkofdeath> I thought the nesting thing was one of the reasons of switching to json anyway
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15:53 < dav1d> gah
15:53 < dav1d> huuuuge if..elseif for rotating normals :(
15:55 < dx> lahwran: oh hey i didn't notice you were lurking here
16:08 < Speck> lahwran is basically everywhere.
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16:18 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-3/±18] http://git.io/uyzPUw
16:18 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath f82303f - Moved log into soulsand
16:18 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 813a4fd - Switched to 1.6 json chat (Colours seem not to work yet)
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17:40 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 2 commits to master [+1/-0/±21] http://git.io/iW0Lwg
17:40 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 15f603e - move geometry dependend code out of renderer.enter
17:40 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde b8ae295 - Implemented normals
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18:20 < dav1d> lol, the nether crashes brala :(
18:37 < dav1d> mh, this is strange, nether seems to send broken chunks
18:54 < dav1d> is there a blockid with 240?
18:58 < Thinkofdeath> dav1d: Nope
18:58 < dav1d> gah dammit why can I parse overworld chunks perfectly fine, but nether fails
18:58 < dav1d> since 1.5
18:59 < Thinkofdeath> Do you handle 0x38's sky light sent?
18:59 < Thinkofdeath> I don't think the nether sends skylight
18:59 < dav1d> Thinkofdeath: did anything change from 1.4 to 1.5 regarding that?
18:59 < dav1d> that could explain it
18:59 < Thinkofdeath> Can't remember
19:00 <+SirCmpwn> not sure when it changed, but they did add the ability for skylight to be optional
19:00 < dav1d> ah
19:00 < dav1d> there is a new flag
19:00 < dav1d> thanks, that's probably it
19:00 < dav1d> I bet it's still called "unused" in my protocol code
19:01 < dav1d> read!bool(s); // unknown
19:01 < dav1d> yep, kinda
19:03 < Thinkofdeath> Still trying to solve why this comes out incorrectly, https://gist.github.com/thinkofdeath/26c0f191fe63d7dc6aa0
19:03 < dav1d> lol I'll use a goto
19:04 < Thinkofdeath> Looking at how minecraft handles it didn't help
19:05 < Thinkofdeath> Although I found out why colour codes haven't been removed yet
19:05 < dav1d> *** Crashed with return code: 0 ***
19:05 < dav1d> Segfault!
19:05 < Thinkofdeath> It just converts the json version back to the old minecraft version currently
19:05 <+SirCmpwn> Thinkofdeath: did you make your own JSON implementation
19:06 < dav1d> but it shows for a short time the correct data
19:06 < Thinkofdeath> SirCmpwn: To create it? yeah
19:06 <+SirCmpwn> Thinkofdeath: why
19:06 < Thinkofdeath> It shows up fine in game just without colour
19:07 <+SirCmpwn> that's not what I asked
19:07 <+SirCmpwn> anyway, sniff with SMProxy and mimic what the vanilla server uses
19:07 < Thinkofdeath> The thing is colour works but only on the root of the json
19:10 < dav1d> does 0x33 send skylight?
19:11 < dav1d> that is strange, there doesn't seem to be a flag, but if I assume it has skylight it crashes
19:11 <+SirCmpwn> every time, yes
19:11 <+SirCmpwn> to the best of my knowledge, that is
19:11 < dav1d> but if I assume it has no skylight it works
19:11 < dav1d> maybe dimension specific?
19:11 <+SirCmpwn> maybe just guess based on which dimension you're in?
19:11 < dav1d> WOW fuck you mojang
19:11 < dav1d> how should I implement that -_-
19:11 <+SirCmpwn> I concur
19:12 < dav1d> I can't
19:12 <+SirCmpwn> my protocol implementation will be much sadder when I implement that
19:12 < dav1d> why should the networking code have any state
19:12 < dav1d> this is just stuipid
19:12 < dav1d> dinnerbro proof me wrong!
19:12 <+SirCmpwn> Mojang is pretty stupid a lot of the time, dav1d
19:12 < dav1d> you think it's ok if I ping dinnerbro?
19:13 <+SirCmpwn> yup
19:13 <+SirCmpwn> he won't change it, though
19:13 <+SirCmpwn> Mojang doesn't consider our opinions valuable these days
19:14 < dav1d> Dinnerbone: is 0x33 dependend on the current dimension?
19:14 <+SirCmpwn> badly phrased
19:14 <+SirCmpwn> Dinnerbone: does the inclusion of sky light in 0x33 packets depend on which dimension the client is in?
19:14 < dav1d> ha, yeah thanks :P
19:15 < dav1d> ok it seems it is
19:15 < dav1d> if I change it "has_skylight = false" it doesn't crash
19:16 <+SirCmpwn> Dinnerbone: if it is, please change it. Most of us design our networking code to be independent of the rest, and this would break that (very good) design. Please add a boolean to 0x33 that specifies the inclusion of sky light
19:17 <+SirCmpwn> this also makes SMProxy more intelligent than it should be
19:17 <+SirCmpwn> since I'd need to keep track of the client's dimension to proxy 0x33 properly
19:18 < dav1d> this is strange
19:18 < dav1d> keeping it false in the overworld seems to work
19:18 < dav1d> maybe just coincidence that it didn't crash...
19:19 <+SirCmpwn> you've broken something, then
19:19 <+SirCmpwn> I assure you that 0x33 has sky light in the overworld
19:19 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: mh?
19:19 <+SirCmpwn> oh, hey, try using the size of the decompressed data to determine if it has sky light
19:19 < dav1d> then it's probably only a coincidence that it didn't crash
19:19 <+SirCmpwn> it's probably because you just discard the sky light when you set it to false
19:20 < dav1d> yeah of course it didn't crash
19:20 < dav1d> it has more data then it consumes and I made everything else "safe"
19:20 < dav1d> biome_data is now "safe" returns OCEAN if it is some random value
19:21 <+SirCmpwn> I think using the length of the decomressed data is a tolerable solution
19:21 <+SirCmpwn> try that
19:21 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: I need to go through the primary_bitmask, then I can calculate the size
19:21 <+SirCmpwn> correct
19:22 < dav1d> maybe I should do a trial and error, if it is about to parse skylight and there isn't enough data for even one block of skylight data, stop
19:22 <+SirCmpwn> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamming_weight
19:22 < dav1d> yeah isn't free though
19:22 <+SirCmpwn> it can be pretty cheap
19:23 < dav1d> well, makes no huge difference, it's threaded
19:23 <+SirCmpwn> 12 operations
19:23 < dav1d>             if(f == "sky_light" && !has_skylight) {
19:23 < dav1d>                 goto LBiome;
19:23 < dav1d>             }
19:23 < dav1d> yS
19:23 < dav1d> *xD
19:26 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: core.bitop has popcnt :)
19:36 < dav1d>         int pc = popcnt(ret.chunk.primary_bitmask);
19:36 < dav1d>         bool has_skylight = pc*4096+pc*2048*2 > 256;
19:36 < dav1d> seems to work
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19:46 <+SirCmpwn> there's nothing I wanted more than to spend my day building ffmpeg
19:48 < mbaxter> Me too!
19:55 -!- Alphonse [519e7afd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.158.122.253] has joined #mcdevs
19:55 < Alphonse> Hey
19:56 <+SirCmpwn> actually wasn't that bad, it's well-documented and took something like 20 minutes
19:56 < Alphonse> I was wondering if anyone knew what had changed between 1.5.1 and 1.5.2 as regards to the protocol. I'm using https://github.com/shoghicp/Minecraft-PHP-Client-2/ and don't quite know how to update it.
19:56 <+SirCmpwn> Alphonse: http://b.wiki.vg/1.5pre...1.5.2
19:56 <+SirCmpwn> dammit shoghicp
19:57 < shoghicp> ??
19:57 < shoghicp> oh
19:57 < shoghicp> xD
19:57 < dav1d> shoghicp: they use php!
19:57 <+ammar2> shoghicp: stop slacking off!
19:57 < Alphonse> LOL :')
19:58 < shoghicp> Alphonse: I've problems regarding the scoreboard
19:58 < Alphonse> Do you have any intention of updating that?
19:58 < shoghicp> I tried everything except the thing that works :'(
19:58 < Alphonse> damn
19:58 < shoghicp> The client starts, loads everything... and blocks after 10 seconds or so
19:58 < Alphonse> Have looked through *every* cli client, yours is the only one that looks decent + isn't too damn hard to do anything.
19:59 < shoghicp> :D
19:59 < shoghicp> I think I opened an issue there long ago regarting this problem
20:00 < Alphonse> ah
20:00 < shoghicp> I'm currently solving an problem with the Minecraft PE server
20:00 < shoghicp> I'll into that again now
20:00 < shoghicp> oops
20:00 < shoghicp> after that ^
20:01 < Alphonse> Ah, okay.
20:02 < Alphonse> Any kinda ETA on that?
20:04 < shoghicp> not yet
20:04 < shoghicp> be around here, I'll ping you once I get something
20:05 < dav1d> oh lol
20:05 < dav1d> Alphonse | Have looked through *every* cli client, yours is the only one that looks decent + isn't too damn hard to do anything.
20:05 < dav1d> > php
20:06 < Alphonse> Hey
20:06 < Alphonse> It works
20:06 < Alphonse> it does what I need
20:06 < Alphonse> I can set it up, which says something about it's ease of use...
20:07 < dav1d> it's php
20:08 <+SirCmpwn> Alphonse: its use of PHP automatically pushes it to the bottom of the list of acceptable clients
20:09 <+SirCmpwn> Craft.Net also works great, dav1d's client works great, mineflayer works great
20:09 < dav1d> Well, my client isn't intended as library, but it would work
20:09 < dav1d> I'd probably chosen mineflayer
20:09 < Alphonse> I tried that, was a complete bitch to try and set up.
20:10 <+SirCmpwn> I'd suggest Craft.Net (biased) since it's well modularized and mature, with ongoing development
20:10 < Alphonse> *goes to go test*
20:11 < dav1d> well you need node.js for mineflayer..
20:11 < Alphonse> I know.
20:12 <+pdelvo> dav1d does brala have 1.5.2 support now?
20:12 <+SirCmpwn> he's using PHP on windows
20:12 < dav1d> pdelvo: yes!
20:12 <+pdelvo> yay!
20:12 < dav1d> pdelvo: for a loooong time now :P
20:12 < dav1d> a few days after your first tests :)
20:12 <+pdelvo> :D
20:12 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: with xampp xD
20:13 < Alphonse> wat
20:13 <+pdelvo> git status
20:13 < dav1d> pdelvo: you probably need to update the dmd compiler
20:13 <+pdelvo> oops :D
20:13 < dav1d> might work with dmd 2.062 though
20:14 < shoghicp> SirCmpwn: And on a Raspberry Pi ;)
20:14 < shoghicp> Everything is compiled manually
20:15 <+pdelvo> I think I have to update mine. does not compile
20:17 <+SirCmpwn> Alphonse: another Craft.Net benefit: it does as much as you want it to. It can just do networking, or it can do pretty much everything else Minecraft does
20:17 <+pdelvo> brala\gfx\terrain.d(442): Error: cannot implicitly convert expression (index) of
20:17 <+pdelvo>  type long to uint
20:17 <+pdelvo> std.exception.ErrnoException@std\process.d(372):  (No error)
20:17 < Alphonse> I'm attempting to install now, gon be good.
20:17 < Alphonse> Running it on a linux box, never liked mono.
20:17 < dav1d> pdelvo: wtf
20:18 <+SirCmpwn> I develop Craft.Net on Linux
20:18 <+SirCmpwn> works fine
20:18 < dav1d> pdelvo: nope, 32bit issue
20:18 <+SirCmpwn> hey, speaking of cool things you can do with C.N, do you guys remember that REPL thing I did?
20:18 -!- BizarreCake [~BizarreCa@46.121.251.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
20:18 <+SirCmpwn> I had an idea the other day, and I loaded up Craft.Net.Client *into* the REPL, then spun up a bot and connected it to the server hosting the REPL
20:19 <+ammar2> so you had a bot running from a server connecting to itself
20:19 <+pdelvo> dav1d you use 32bit????
20:19 <+ammar2> SirCmpwn: go deeper
20:19 < dav1d> pdelvo: no you do
20:19 <+SirCmpwn> ammar2: yep
20:19 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 5 commits to master [+1/-0/±31] http://git.io/fq5zdA
20:19 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 042c5e6 - Implemented normals
20:19 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 898ee17 - cleanup fbo creation, set position datatype to GL_FLOAT
20:19 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde dd2613a - fixed MapChunk packets (nether)
20:19 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 24a3580 - make a few classes final
20:19 < dav1d> pdelvo: git reset --hard HEAD~1; git pull
20:19 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde e9da4bd - fixed 32bit issue
20:20 < dav1d> pdelvo: dmd on windows makes 32bit executables
20:20 < dav1d> there is a way to use VS linker and make 64bit executables but I don't know how
20:21 < dav1d> the reset is important, I rebased ...
20:21 <+pdelvo> compiling...
20:21 < dav1d> also, don't forgot to update the submodules
20:21 <+SirCmpwn> dav1d: you broke the One Big Rule
20:21 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: I rebase all the time, I am used to no one using my projects
20:22 <+SirCmpwn> don't rebase after you've pushed, dav1d
20:22 <+pdelvo> what the hack. that compiler uses 1.3gb of ram
20:22 < dav1d> I am not used to anyone pulling :P
20:22 < dav1d> pdelvo: yeah, dmd ftw
20:22 <+SirCmpwn> not an excuse, dav1d, just don't rebase after you push
20:22 <+pdelvo> but only one thread -.-
20:22 < dav1d> pdelvo: doing quite some compile-time magic
20:23 < dav1d> so it has to fire up its interpreter which is sloow and loves memory
20:23 <+pdelvo> this is not a problem for me. I got 16gb, but for other people it might be
20:24 < dav1d> pdelvo: what was the max? 1.3gb?
20:24 <+pdelvo> jeah
20:24 <+pdelvo> there are some people out therewith only 2gb of ram.
20:24 < dav1d> that's ok
20:24 < dav1d> everyone who can't handle that, can't run brala
20:24 < dav1d> needs at least 1Gb vram
20:25 <+pdelvo> I got 3gb :D
20:25 < dav1d> well 700mb would be enough, but I've never seen a graphics card with 700mb
20:26 <+pdelvo> does it support service dns records?
20:27 < dav1d> pdelvo: for servers?
20:27 < dav1d> nope
20:27 <+pdelvo> okay
20:27 < dav1d> pdelvo: feel free to add brala.utils.dns
20:27 < dav1d> ;)
20:28 <+pdelvo> I dont know D and I think writing a udp client is not that easy for me
20:28 < dav1d> clonejo, clonejo1, pdelvo, what do you think of a qt dependency for brala?
20:28 < dav1d> pdelvo: you basically had to do it with berkley sockets
20:29 <+clonejo> dav1d: Using this QML stuff?
20:29 < dav1d> clonejo: ammar2 is playing with it
20:30 < dav1d> I am not sure if I want qt as dependency
20:31 < Alphonse> Right, installing craft.net failed spectacularly
20:31 < Alphonse> #badlinuxskills
20:31 < dav1d> got mono?
20:31 <+SirCmpwn> Alphonse: would you like some help?
20:31 < Alphonse> yes
20:32 <+SirCmpwn> Alphonse: what package manager?
20:32 < Alphonse> If possible, yeah.
20:32 < Alphonse> apt
20:32 <+SirCmpwn> sudo apt-get install mono-complete
20:32 < Alphonse> done
20:32 < Alphonse> I've installed mono and everything
20:32 <+SirCmpwn> git clone --recursive git://github.com/SirCmpwn/Craft.Net && cd Craft.Net
20:32 <+SirCmpwn> xbuild /p:Configuration=MONO
20:32 < zutto> oh you're doing C.N on mono?
20:32 < zutto> awesome
20:33 < Alphonse>  done, only 55 warnings :')
20:33 <+SirCmpwn> the client is Craft.Net.Client/bin/MONO/*.dll
20:33 <+SirCmpwn> probably
20:33 <+SirCmpwn> MONO might be a different folder name, don't recall
20:33 <+SirCmpwn> you can add these as references to another C# project to use C.N.C
20:33 < Alphonse> assembly .* doesn't have an enrty point, runtime version supported by app not available.
20:33 <+pdelvo> Brala is black
20:34 < Alphonse> mono Craft.Net.Client/bin/MONO/*.dll WARNING: The runtime version supported by this application is unavailable. Using default runtime: v2.0.50727 Assembly '/root/craftnet/Craft.Net/Craft.Net.Client/bin/MONO/BouncyCastle.Crypto.dll' doesn't have an entry point.
20:34 <+SirCmpwn> it's a library, not an executable
20:34 <+pdelvo> I dont see anything
20:34 < Alphonse> lol
20:34 < Alphonse> oh dear
20:34 < Alphonse> Sorry, I'm kinda new to all this.
20:34 <+SirCmpwn> which distribution?
20:34 < Alphonse> debian 7 x32
20:34 <+SirCmpwn> or rather, which repositories
20:34 <+SirCmpwn> ick, debian
20:34 <+SirCmpwn> well, maybe their MD is up to date
20:34 <+SirCmpwn> sudo apt-get install monodevelop
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20:34 < zutto> SirCmpwn: what distro are you running?
20:34 < zutto> arch?
20:35 <+SirCmpwn> zutto: I'm on mint atm
20:35 < zutto> ew :|
20:35 < zutto> opensuse & arch all teh wai
20:35 <+SirCmpwn> I was on arch a while back
20:35 <+SirCmpwn> turns out I don't really feel like spending an entire day setting up my system
20:35 < zutto> haha
20:35 < zutto> give a go to opensuse then
20:35 <+SirCmpwn> KDE < *
20:35 < barneygale> mint is nice
20:35 < zutto> DWM > *
20:35 < Alphonse> right, that's done
20:36 <+SirCmpwn> I like Cinnamon
20:36 <+SirCmpwn> Alphonse: monodevelop is a pretty nice C# IDE
20:36 <+SirCmpwn> Alphonse: open it up and create a new console project
20:36 <+SirCmpwn> also, what version is it?
20:36 < Alphonse> 3.0.3.2
20:36 <+SirCmpwn> good, 3.x is far better than 2.x
20:36 < Alphonse> See, this is where I start getting way outta my depth.
20:36 < Alphonse> I want something I can monitor chat on, and maybe, just maybe interpret it, basically.
20:37 <+SirCmpwn> if you know Java, you almost know C#
20:37 <+SirCmpwn> if you know C++, you're halfway to C#
20:37 < Alphonse> >know java
20:37 <+SirCmpwn> you have no right to criticize languages, you came in here asking about PHP
20:37 < Alphonse> :')
20:37 < Alphonse> I don't know java well in the slightest.
20:37 < zutto> Alphonse: also, remember to take a look at MSDN
20:38 <+SirCmpwn> well, C# is like most C-based languages in terms of basic syntax
20:38 < zutto> since you're going to be toying with c#, MSDN is great resource
20:38 <+SirCmpwn> I'll give you a simple chat program as an example
20:38 <+SirCmpwn> Alphonse: right click the project, add a reference to each of the DLL files in that output directory from earlier
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20:42 <+SirCmpwn> he left?
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20:42 <+SirCmpwn> dammit, I just finished writing up a simple chat client
20:43 < Thinkofdeath> SirCmpwn: Put it on github anyway for an example for others
20:43 <+SirCmpwn> it's just a gist, I wrote it offhand and didn't test it
20:43 <+SirCmpwn> https://gist.github.com/SirCmpwn/a6faf60d041a26d5f511
20:44 < Thinkofdeath> SirCmpwn: Nice and simple
20:44 <+SirCmpwn> also, I do have a graphical client example on github
20:45 < Thinkofdeath> Link?
20:46 <+SirCmpwn> https://github.com/SirCmpwn/ExampleGraphicalClient
20:46 <+SirCmpwn> don't clone it yet, I'm about to update it to 1.5.2
20:47 <+SirCmpwn> "graphical" doesn't mean it renders terrain, fyi, it means it doesn't run in a terminal
20:47 < Thinkofdeath> Never used C# before, looks nice
20:48 < Thinkofdeath> I started work on a client a while ago, didn't get too far
20:48 <+SirCmpwn> I have a private repo on github
20:48 <+SirCmpwn> turns out I suck at opengl, though
20:48 < Thinkofdeath> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/48264738/Screenshot_2013-06-11-09-13-46.png
20:48 < Thinkofdeath> Thats what it looked like (on Android)
20:48 <+SirCmpwn> that's a lot further than I got, wow
20:49 <+SirCmpwn> that looks further than dav1d even got
20:49 < Thinkofdeath> The thing was it was coded in Java
20:49 <+SirCmpwn> yuck
20:49 < dav1d> pfft
20:49 < Thinkofdeath> I coded it all on my phone as well (no hard keyboard)
20:49 <+SirCmpwn> dav1d: I didn't see any water, lava, transparent leaves in the latest BraLa
20:49 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: transparent leaves work, change the texture
20:49 < Thinkofdeath> Debugging was a pain
20:50 < dav1d> there is no water for a reason btw
20:50 < dav1d> soon there will be shadows :)
20:50 <+SirCmpwn> I was thinking about doing an android client
20:50 < Thinkofdeath> The textures are animated as well
20:50 <+SirCmpwn> a proper client, that connects to 1.5.2 servers
20:51 <+SirCmpwn> since there's no reason PE couldn't be that
20:51 < Thinkofdeath> The GC was the reason I stopped (Frooze the client every couple of seconds)
20:51 <+SirCmpwn> sounds like you're bad at memory management
20:52 < Thinkofdeath> I am :)
20:52 <+SirCmpwn> after the initial setup, shouldn't require many new objects per frame
20:52 <+SirCmpwn> if any
20:52 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: ...
20:52 < dav1d> a stop the world gc
20:52 <+SirCmpwn> wat
20:52 < dav1d> it kicks in randomly and stops the world
20:52 < Thinkofdeath> I was an infinite world so new chunks were being built
20:52 <+SirCmpwn> at least in C#, it kicks in something like every 500 kb allocated
20:53 <+SirCmpwn> the server only sends you so many chunks, Thinkofdeath
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20:53 < Thinkofdeath> The freezing only happens when you move
20:53 <+SirCmpwn> I see
20:54 < Thinkofdeath> But the networking was never done anyway just the rendering
20:54 < Thinkofdeath> I didn't have a server to test with
20:54 <+SirCmpwn> I crashed mono with my graphical client thing
20:55 <+SirCmpwn> :(
20:55 <+SirCmpwn> I didn't just get an exception or anything, I actually crashed the mono runtime
20:55 < Thinkofdeath> lol
20:55 < zutto> mono still has bugs left, especially with debuggers attached
20:55 <+SirCmpwn> I have never before crashed the actual runtime
20:55 <+SirCmpwn> and I didn't have a debugger attached
20:56 < zutto> i have :|
20:56 < zutto> i was fighting with project that required very heavy multithreading.. nasty things happen
20:56 <+SirCmpwn> oh, cross thread x server issues
20:57 <+SirCmpwn> MessageBox.Show is thread-safe on windows, but not on linux
20:58 <+SirCmpwn> this is surprisingly sophisticated
20:58 <+SirCmpwn> parses your vanilla server list and everything
21:00 <+SirCmpwn> updated to 1.5.2, fixed on mono
21:00 <+SirCmpwn> Thinkofdeath: if you wanted to try it, go ahead
21:00 < Thinkofdeath> Ok one sec
21:01 < Thinkofdeath> Just getting mono + monodevelop
21:01 <+SirCmpwn> git clone --recursive git://github.com/SirCmpwn/ExampleGraphicalClient.git && cd ExampleGraphicalClient && xbuild /p:Configuration=MONO && cd ExampleGraphicalClient/bin/Release && mono ExampleGraphicalClient.exe
21:02 <+SirCmpwn> once you have everything installed, that is
21:09 < Thinkofdeath> SirCmpwn: https://gist.github.com/thinkofdeath/996d82a57df5a7761f6f
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21:26 < Thinkofdeath> SirCmpwn: Ok fixed it and got it built, now to test
21:29 < Thinkofdeath> SirCmpwn: And it works!
21:30 < Thinkofdeath> Well direct connect does
21:30 < Thinkofdeath> Using the server list I get this: https://gist.github.com/thinkofdeath/e87fe192325c1301f5a8
21:31 <+pdelvo> I'll fix it
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21:36 <+pdelvo> SirCmpwn you got a pull request
21:36 <+pdelvo> https://github.com/SirCmpwn/Craft.Net/pull/169
21:46 <+SirCmpwn> pdelvo: noted
21:46 <+SirCmpwn> pdelvo: merged
21:46 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/Hersqw
21:46 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] pdelvo 4cb24c7 - Does now support IpV6!
21:46 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn a1dd676 - Merge pull request #169 from pdelvo/ipv6 Does now support IpV6!
21:46 <+pdelvo> yay!
21:46 <+SirCmpwn> Thinkofdeath: git submodule foreach git pull origin master
21:49 < Thinkofdeath> SirCmpwn: Works :)
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23:08 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 3 commits to refactoring [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/fKjXNQ
23:08 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] pdelvo 4cb24c7 - Does now support IpV6!
23:08 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn a1dd676 - Merge pull request #169 from pdelvo/ipv6 Does now support IpV6!
23:08 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 7aa8fdf - Merged master into refactoring
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00:13 <+md_5> how can your code not support ipv6 o.O
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00:20 < mbaxter> md_5: explicitly coding using ipv4?
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00:42 <+pdelvo> when you use sockets you have to specify the Address Family. it was set to InterNetwork which is ipv4. I changed it to use the protocol family the ip address is in
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01:24 <+clonejo> pdelvo: Doesn't one often have dual stack, i.e. both IPv4 and IPv6?
01:25 <+clonejo> oh wait, is this about a client?
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01:33 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2038 2 files : Working to simplify VanillaMapGenParameters: Combined CoalOreDensity/IronOreDensity/GoldOreDensity into fractional OreDensity setting. Converted CaveDensity from absolute to fractional property was well.
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02:42 < Drainedsoul> how does one send the literal section sign (U+00A7) in chat?
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02:44 <+md_5> Drainedsoul do you know how to send strings?
02:45 < Drainedsoul> UCS-2 BE encode them and prepend them with a signed 16-bit integer giving their length in Unicode code points
02:46 <+md_5> mmm
02:46 <+md_5> and sending section is the same
02:46 <+md_5> §
02:46 <+md_5> just make a string with that
02:46 < Drainedsoul> but the client gives U+00A7 special meaning
02:46 <+md_5> oh
02:46 <+md_5> you want to send it without meaning
02:47 < Drainedsoul> yeah, as a literal
02:47 <+md_5> not possible
02:47 < Drainedsoul> thanks
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06:01 < dx> hmmm the network my minecraft server is in is having some packet loss issues, almost completely consistently 25% for every test i do
06:02 < dx> it seems to make the game unplayable
06:02 < dx> *cough* this wouldn't happen if we had an UDP protocol *cough*
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06:25 < mbaxter> dx: Write a udp client and server mod. 
06:27 < dx> mbaxter: DEJA VU
06:27 < mbaxter> dx: Write a udp client and server mod.
06:27 < dx> mbaxter: DEJA VU
07:38 < AlphaBlend> huh
07:39 < AlphaBlend> lolz, bad network
07:54 < Drainedsoul> Do the Notchian server/client just not understand/recognize non-BMP code points?
07:56 <+SirCmpwn> non-BMP code points?
07:56 <+SirCmpwn> wat?
07:56 <+SirCmpwn> what is BMP, what is a code point
07:57 < Drainedsoul> uhh...
07:57 < Drainedsoul> a code point is a discrete character in Unicode
07:57 < Drainedsoul> the BMP is the Basic Multilingual Plane, the first 65535 code points in Unicode
07:57 <+SirCmpwn> oh, you're still trying to display § on the client
07:57 <+SirCmpwn> give up, it doesn't work
07:57 < Drainedsoul> code point is just used to disambiguate between characters and graphemes
07:58 < Drainedsoul> well, the section sign is actually in the BMP, so that's not what the question is about at all
07:59 <+SirCmpwn> Minecraft is explicitly limited to 0x0000-0xFFFF, iirc
07:59 < Drainedsoul> characters outside the BMP have a five digits U+ representation, like U+1D11E (MUSICAL SYMBOL G CLEF)
07:59 < Drainedsoul> okay, thanks
07:59 <+SirCmpwn> I don't know much about unicode beyond 0x80, though
08:10 < dx> Drainedsoul: hah what, you seem to know more about unicode than most people here, but somehow ignored the fact that UCS-2 has a fixed width of 2 bytes
08:11 <+SirCmpwn> UCS-2 doesn't have a fixed width of 2 bytes, dx
08:11 < Drainedsoul> UCS-2 is almost compatible with UTF-16 though, so if you don't see non-BMP characters and no one tries to encode surrogates, you can confuse them
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08:11 < Drainedsoul> UCS-2 is fixed width 2 bytes, UTF-16 is not
08:11 < Drainedsoul> but Java represents strings -
08:11 < Drainedsoul> - afaik -- as UTF-16, hence the question
08:11 <+SirCmpwn> bleh
08:12 < dx> SirCmpwn: you're thinking UTF-16, they are compatible, but UCS-2 is fixed
08:12 <+SirCmpwn> I'm going to stop talking about unicode now
08:12 < dx> so it's sorta deprecated for that reason
08:13 <+SirCmpwn> I've been fighting with ffmpeg all day
08:13 < dx> fun
08:13 <+SirCmpwn> it's great when it works
08:13 < eddyb> dwarf fortress kind of fun
08:13 < dx> ^
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19:38 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±7] http://git.io/yORkEw
19:38 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath eae05c8 - Change inventories to support multiple players inventories (Fixes #20)
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22:36 < M6PIC> I have written some code, http://pastebin.com/tnG9nik1, to tell me what information is sent when a MC client tries to connect and handle some packets. When I refresh the multiplayer server select screen it prints "Server Pinged" and I don't receive any more packets. What am I doing wrong?
22:38 <+sadimusi> M6PIC: if (magic[0] != 1)
22:38 <+sadimusi> if it is one, there shouldn't be anything else
22:38 <+sadimusi> and it is
22:39 < M6PIC> It is just a check.
22:39 <+sadimusi> what are you expecting to see? The only other line that could print anything is in that if block...
22:40 < M6PIC> Any other information from the default case.
22:41 <+sadimusi> you only get the 0xfe packet
22:41 < M6PIC> Should I be getting any other packets?
22:42 <+sadimusi> no
22:42 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±7] http://git.io/jnL5SQ
22:42 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 950ab6f - improved tscreen, added a way to debug fbo
22:42 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde ffd6b3b - move ladders/vines a bit further away from the blocks attached to
22:43 < M6PIC> The MC multiplayer screen says 'Can't Reach Server'. Can I change this?
22:43 < dav1d> M6PIC: is this D?
22:43 <+sadimusi> reply with the appropriate response
22:43 < dav1d> looks like it
22:43 < M6PIC> Yes.
22:44 < dav1d> (someone should mean, I should recognize D, with my client written in D...)
22:44 < dav1d> int[1] id; client.receive(id); looks smelly
22:44 < M6PIC> I see. I need to reply with 0xFF packet.
22:45 < dav1d> M6PIC: I recommend you std.socketstream and std.stream
22:45 < dav1d> especially useful EndianStream
22:45 < M6PIC> OK.
22:45 < dav1d> the GC.collect isn't necessary
22:46 < dav1d> const char[] ip = cast(char[])"192.168.1.108";
22:46 < dav1d> const(char)[] ip = "...".dup;
22:48 < M6PIC> I know. I was just seeing whether it made it go any faster.
22:48 < M6PIC> How do I create an array with a 2 byte short - I am very new to programming.
22:49 < dav1d> M6PIC: new short[2]
22:49 < dav1d> or: short[] s; s.length = 2;
22:49 < M6PIC> Thanks
22:50 < dav1d> well you maybe want an array on the stack
22:50 < dav1d> short[2] s;
22:52 < M6PIC> Communication Error now.
22:56 < M6PIC> What is supposed to happen after I send a 0xFF packet. I have updated the pastebin.
23:03 < M6PIC> I have got to go now.
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--- Day changed lun. juin 17 2013
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01:33 <+SirCmpwn> sadimusi: working on burger?
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04:35 < Not-002> [Miners] Astelyn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/j74wHQ
04:35 < Not-002> [Miners] astelyn a42b575 - Fixed otherplayer interpolation lag
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05:02 < Not-002> [Miners] Astelyn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/bxtG9g
05:02 < Not-002> [Miners] astelyn bf4e640 - mc/classic: Fixed interpolation lag
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06:48 < Drainedsoul> what is the root cause of a client side "Ticking Screen" error?
06:55 <+SirCmpwn> I've never heard of such an error
06:56 <+SirCmpwn> what's the high-level cause
06:56 < Drainedsoul> "Minecraft has stopped running because it encountered a problem; Ticking screen"
06:56 <+SirCmpwn> pastebin full error log, maybe
06:56 <+SirCmpwn> and tell us what you were doing around the time it happened
06:57 < Drainedsoul> https://gist.github.com/RobertLeahy/c64395ea1672224510cf
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06:58 <+SirCmpwn> <SirCmpwn> and tell us what you were doing around the time it happened
06:58 <+SirCmpwn> important
06:58 < Drainedsoul> trying to get the client to spawn.  It goes away from the "Logging in..." screen, sits there, and then does that
06:59 <+SirCmpwn> run through SMProxy, give log
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07:06 < Drainedsoul> https://gist.github.com/RobertLeahy/268f56e16551500fb750 I don't have SMProxy, but there's a protocol transcript
07:08 <+SirCmpwn> get SMProxy
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08:14 < M6PIC> What packets should be sent after 0xFE and 0xFF?
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08:23 <+SirCmpwn> nothing, M6PIC
08:23 <+SirCmpwn> the connection is terminated after 0xFF goes out the door
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14:58 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±3] http://git.io/nR_RUw
14:58 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 6cc99cf - updated glamour
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16:27 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/KrBqyw
16:27 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 52639f1 - Update to 13w25a
16:44 < Grum> Thinkofdeath: that is not enough to support the protocol properly ;P
16:44 < Thinkofdeath> Grum: Was there any changes? 
16:44 < Grum> yeah else the protocol wouldnt change >.>
16:45 < Thinkofdeath> True :P I'll go look
16:46 < Grum> awardstats (200); byte -> int
16:46 < Thinkofdeath> Grum: Ty
16:48 < Thinkofdeath> Grum: Side note - https://gist.github.com/thinkofdeath/26c0f191fe63d7dc6aa0 Shouldn't the colours show using this?
16:49 < Grum> Thinkofdeath: euuuuh Dinnerbone!
16:49 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/fHiC5w
16:50 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 2097d70 - Fix snapshot support
16:58 < Not-002> [Miners] Astelyn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/pRVdrg
16:58 < Not-002> [Miners] astelyn a64f979 - Fixed otherplayer interpolation lag mc/classic: Fixed interpolation lag mc/classic: Formatting
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17:13 < Not-002> [Miners] Astelyn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/hD3hzg
17:13 < Not-002> [Miners] astelyn 9c414e0 - mc/classic: fixed otherplayer interpolation lag
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17:18 < Not-002> [Miners] Astelyn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/pJZ2qg
17:18 < Not-002> [Miners] astelyn 6c063b9 - mc/classic: formatting
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17:32 < Not-002> [Miners] Astelyn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/zKYYLQ
17:32 < Not-002> [Miners] astelyn 9f605ae - mc/classic: fixed otherplayer interpolation lag
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18:46 < Not-002> [Miners] Astelyn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/Svw4FA
18:46 < Not-002> [Miners] astelyn f81420d - mc/classic: heading/pitch interpolation
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19:46 < M6PIC> When I run my code, http://pastebin.com/tnG9nik1, the multiplayer screen says the server version is 1.3. What have I done wrong?
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19:57 < act4> I see this showing up in google again: http://minecraftservers.ceilingcat.ch
19:58 <+Fador> M6PIC: toUTF16("§1\061\01.5.2\0M6PIC\00\03") change this to something like toUTF16("§1\0" "61\0" "1.5.2\0" "M6PIC\0" "0\0" "3") (or whatever you can do in D to join strings)
20:00 <+Fador> M6PIC: because it will use \061, \01 etc as one escape value (if it's the same as in C) ;)
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20:09 < M6PIC> OK
20:11 < M6PIC> I changed the \0 to \x0000 and it still doesn't work.
20:14 <+Fador> are you sure it doesn't use more than 4 numbers..?
20:16 -!- Calinou [~Calinou@unaffiliated/calinou] has quit [Quit: Excess Flood]
20:16 <+Fador> toUTF16("§1\0" ~ "61\0" ~ "1.5.2\0" ~ "M6PIC\0" ~ "0\0" ~ "3") maybe it works like this in D
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20:23 < dav1d> Wtf
20:24 < dav1d> Why zero terminate?
20:31 <+clonejo> dav1d: Notch
20:32 <+clonejo> hm, probably someone else at Mojang
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21:06 < dav1d> pdelvo: ping
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21:15 < dav1d> I guess the D guy is gone
21:15 < dav1d>     s.write(cast(ushort)data.length);
21:15 < dav1d>     s.writeStringW(toUTF16(data));
21:15 < dav1d> that would be all he'd need
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21:48 <+sadimusi> SirCmpwn: I'm presenting my bachelor's thesis tomorrow, that's why I didn't really have time for burger lately...
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21:59 < dav1d> sadimusi: good luck! 
21:59 <+sadimusi> thanks
21:59 <+pdelvo> dav1d pong :D
21:59 < dav1d> pdelvo: did you have any znc issues today?
21:59 < dav1d> ~21:00
22:03 <+pdelvo> nope works fine!
22:11 < dav1d> then I guess it was an issue on my end
22:11 < xy> dav1d: is your znc located at hetzner?
22:11 < dav1d> xy: yes!
22:11 < xy> hetzner had some network issues today
22:11 < xy> i experienced the same
22:11 < dav1d> xy: around 21:00 
22:11 < dav1d> couldn't even login into ssh
22:11 < xy> quite exactly, indeed
22:11 < dav1d> connection timed out
22:11 < xy> similar here, 2s of ping and 75% of packet loss
22:12 < dav1d> ah, good that explains it, already thought I messed up somewhere
22:12 < xy> hetzner regurarily has that i think
22:12 < dav1d> never experienced that before, well once but I thought that wass my fault, maybe it wasn't
22:13 < dav1d> thanks!
22:13 < xy> well
22:13 < xy> let's bug them with support tickets
22:14 < dav1d> xy: do i get a discount if I file a ticket?^^
22:14 < xy> dav1d: if you say that you experienced that a couple of times and if you complain about your network uptime being bad, you might
22:15 < dav1d> na, I am really satisfied with hetzner
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22:21 < xy> dav1d: hetzner's SLA is "only" 99% as i've seen (other hosters offer 99.9%) - i guess you can't ask them for refund because of 2 minutes per day (0.13%) although it is annoying *shrug*
22:21 < dav1d> na, maybe if it happens more often in the future
22:30 < xy> wait let me traceroute you from the server i'm on
22:31 < xy> only 5 hops, 0.5 milliseconds ping
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22:41 < dav1d> 1TB traffic, using 4gb :(
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22:43 < M6PIC> It stil says the server is 1.3
22:43 < dav1d>     s.write(cast(ushort)data.length);
22:44 < dav1d>     s.writeStringW(toUTF16(data));
22:44 < dav1d> M6PIC: ^
22:44 < dav1d> all you need
22:44 < dav1d> asssuming you already switched to std.stream
22:44 < dav1d> where is(typeof(data) : string)
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22:54 < M6PIC> What is FileMode?
22:54 < dav1d> M6PIC: can you be more specific?
22:55 < zutto> r, rw, w, a?
22:55 < M6PIC> In the constructor of std.SocketStream.
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22:56 < dav1d> M6PIC: In case you haven't seen it: https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/tree/master/brala/network
22:56 < dav1d> whole minecraft protocol in D
22:57 < dav1d> M6PIC: "Uses mode FileMode.In | FileMode.Out."
22:57 < dav1d> use the overloaded destructor
22:57 < dav1d> that's what you want
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22:57 < dav1d> the new github design takes time getting used too
22:57 < dav1d> I prefer the old one :(
22:58 < zutto> new design?
22:59 < zutto> looks the same to me ;o
22:59 < dav1d> zutto: I got asked if I wanna try out the "new"
22:59 < dav1d> it isn't default (yet)
23:00 < dav1d> and I can't find an option to set it back
23:00 < dav1d> zutto: https://github.com/blog/1529-repository-next
23:01 < zutto> ah i see
23:01 < zutto> i'm glad they're reducing the animations
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23:04 <+Prf_Jakob> dav1d: yeah, I think its better
23:04 < dav1d> Prf_Jakob: you actually prefer it?
23:04 <+Prf_Jakob> dav1d: I really only use it for navigating files or the commit history
23:04 <+Prf_Jakob> dav1d: kinda yeah
23:04 < dav1d> I don't like that the main view got smaller (width of code, file browser, readme)
23:04 < dav1d> not symmetric anylonger
23:04 < dav1d> gives me ocd issues
23:04 <+Prf_Jakob> ah
23:04 <+Prf_Jakob> hmm
23:05 <+Prf_Jakob> 30" monitor, doesn't really mind
23:05 < dav1d> Prf_Jakob: :(
23:05  * dav1d sits infront of his 12"
23:05 < dav1d> (well feels like 12")
23:05 <+Prf_Jakob> hehe
23:05 <+SirCmpwn> sadimusi: good luck with thesis, hoping for burger before 1.6.x drops
23:05 <+SirCmpwn> sadimusi: plenty of time
23:05 < M6PIC> Cool. Got to go. Thanks all.
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23:06 <+Prf_Jakob> and secondary 1600x1200 19" monitor, the again that screen is just the browser window.
23:06 <+Prf_Jakob> dav1d: I like the speed
23:06 <+Prf_Jakob> dav1d: since all I do I check commits and post links to code to explain stuff.
23:06 < dav1d> I should by a nice 30", too
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23:07 < dav1d> haha I can imagine the look of my flat-mates
23:07 <+Prf_Jakob> dav1d: hehe
23:07 < dav1d> laptop+pc+two monitors
23:07 < dav1d> in a relativly small room
23:07 <+Prf_Jakob> dav1d: http://irc.walkyrie.se/desk.jpg
23:07 < dav1d> xD
23:07 < dav1d> you don't wanna see mine
23:07 <+Prf_Jakob> its "slightly" cleaned up :)
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23:10 <+Prf_Jakob> dav1d: the only thing is that Dell made a new model of the screen, so if I get two more they will look different.
23:11 < dav1d> Prf_Jakob: mine is real mess
23:11 < dav1d> Prf_Jakob: http://s.dav1d.de/desk.jpg
23:11 <+SirCmpwn> https://github.com/Overv/MineAssemble
23:11 < dav1d> the surroundings are even wors
23:11 <+SirCmpwn> bootable minecraft in x86 assembly
23:11 < dav1d> e*worse
23:12 <+Prf_Jakob> dav1d: naw that looks good
23:12 < dav1d> notice that one beer hiding in the corner^^
23:12 < dav1d> yeah I "cleaned up" a few days ago
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23:19 <+pdelvo> my one is even worse :D
23:20 < dav1d> I think I have 20 empty water bottles laying around^^
23:21 <+pdelvo> Ive three. I tidied up yesterday :D
23:21 < dav1d> ^^
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23:23 <+clonejo> I wanted to take a picture but my phone's camera is too bad.
23:24 < dav1d> clonejo: :D
23:24 < dav1d> Nexus 4 <3
23:24 < dav1d> luv it
23:24 < dav1d> definitly worth it
23:25 <+Prf_Jakob> dav1d: I'm thinking of getting one of those as well
23:25 <+clonejo> I will get myself a job next semester. So I can do some spending.
23:25 < dav1d> Prf_Jakob: the nexus 4 is awesome, I am having some trouble, but I think I got a bad device
23:26 <+Prf_Jakob> dav1d: oh
23:26 < dav1d> if I keep it to long plugged to the power, it shuts off and I can't start it except with a hard restart
23:26 < dav1d> (well the "volume down + shutdown" combination
23:26 <+Prf_Jakob> weird
23:26 < dav1d> yeah, also freaks out if it's getting too hot
23:26 < dav1d> but might have just me getting unlucky, gotta send it back soon
23:27 < dav1d> too hot ~30-40°C
23:27 <+Prf_Jakob> that does sound like a problem
23:28 < dav1d> restarting it seems to work though
23:28 < dav1d> but that sucks..
23:29 <+Prf_Jakob> yeah
23:29 < dav1d> yay http://i.imgur.com/m2N7Uhu.png
23:29 < dav1d> it works, stinking mipmaps!
23:30 < dav1d> [color, normal, texcoord, position]
23:30 < dav1d> debugging FBOs like a boss
23:32 <+Prf_Jakob> dav1d: cool, what are you trying to do?
23:32 < dav1d> Prf_Jakob: deferred rendering, maybe :P
23:32 < dav1d> at least I got the infrastructure now
23:33 <+Prf_Jakob> dav1d: k
23:33 < dav1d> recently had a problem with the textures not showing
23:33 < dav1d> then I woke up in the middle of the night, and I knew, I had to generate mipmaps 
23:33 < dav1d> :D
23:44 < dav1d> notifico is dead!
23:44 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: ^
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01:24 <+ammar2> alright which one of you crazy folks here did this https://github.com/Overv/MineAssemble
01:25 <+sadimusi> I really have to try to get this to run on a pi
01:25 <+ammar2> sadimusi: x86
01:26 <+sadimusi> ah, right :/
01:26 <+sadimusi> I could compile the initial C implementation
01:26 <+sadimusi> but then again, there is already a minecraft version for the pi
01:27 <+sadimusi> which didn't rellay work that well for me
01:33 <+AndrewPH> ammar2: overv probably did
01:33 <+AndrewPH> doesn't come around here, he's a facepuncher
01:33 <+AndrewPH> played garry's mod and developed stuff for it for a loong time
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04:15 < dx> "At this point, I had two choices: write my own rasterizer or implement a raytracer. I decided to go with raytracing"
04:15 < dx> yep, he doesn't aim for efficiency at all
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04:41 <+Prf_Jakob> dx: minecraft terrain is I think one of the few places raytracing makes sense.
04:43 < dx> Prf_Jakob: really? hm. but surely any other implementation could be much better, right?
04:43 <+Prf_Jakob> It lends it self to sparse trees
04:44 <+Prf_Jakob> dx: I mean sure if he had a GPU it wouldn't make sense
04:49 < dx> well yeah, a lot of things stop making sense if you can just use opengl
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04:50 < dx> btw, you got me interested again in a project idea i had some time ago that involved writing a software 3d renderer and i never got around to decide a simple enough method to do it
04:51 < dx> raytracing seemed like the best option but i thought it would be impossible to do realtime
04:53 < dx> and finding explanations on how more complex software renderers work turned out to be rather hard.
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06:24 < Kage`> Anyone got a good suggestion of a URL I can poll to find the latest stable version?
06:24 <+sadimusi> there's always the new official version list
06:24 < Kage`> .. go on?
06:25 <+sadimusi> I forgot the actual URL, but it should be pretty easy to figure out
06:26 < Kage`> I've been googling for a while and have only found old, deprecated URLs
06:26 <+sadimusi> https://s3.amazonaws.com/Minecraft.Download/versions/versions.json
06:27 < Kage`> Ooh, perfect
06:27 < Kage`> And this is officially maintained, aye?
06:27 <+sadimusi> yes
06:27 <+sadimusi> the new launcher uses it
06:28 < Kage`> Excellent.  Much obliged.
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07:01 <+SirCmpwn> oooooh, pretty
07:01 <+SirCmpwn> they finally made a list like that
07:01 <+SirCmpwn> I must've asked for it a half dozen times
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07:27 < SinZ> SirCmpwn: it only exists because the launcher needed it
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07:29 <+SirCmpwn> I know, I wasn't trying to imply that it's a result of my requests
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08:14 < SinZ> Is there any use to the UUID yet?
08:21 < Calinou> if you use normal keys, you can be jailed
08:21 < Calinou> that's why
08:21 < Calinou> </experienced javascript coder>
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08:50 < Shagrat> Hello. I finish first bot version. http://mc.jad.ru/
08:54 < SinZ> Shagrat: Nice!
08:55 < SinZ> Shagrat: what language is it in?
08:56 < Shagrat> :( - Sory. Bad english
08:56 < Shagrat> I correct
08:56 < Shagrat> it's not enough documentation
08:57 <+AndrewPH> SinZ: pascal
08:57 < Shagrat> Delphi XE2
08:57 < Shagrat> Pascal
08:57 <+AndrewPH> that
08:57 <+AndrewPH> (I don't know much about anything of the sort)
08:57 < SinZ> ^
08:58 <+AndrewPH> SinZ: oh god i have to add a feature to this undocumented quest editor
08:58 <+AndrewPH> the editor itself is only 610 loc
08:59 <+AndrewPH> which is leading me to believe most of the work is being offloaded to a file that both the editor and the viewer use
09:00 <+AndrewPH> aaand it looks like everything is hardcode
09:00 <+AndrewPH> d
09:00 <+AndrewPH> list of things that are great!
09:01 <+AndrewPH> at least it's better than the 3k loc chatroom feature...
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09:09 < Shagrat> Realize http://mc.jad.ru/?page_id=28
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09:19 <+md_5> soo
09:20 <+md_5> who here has made a C or similar MC server, any language where they have no streamed IO
09:20 <+md_5> how did you handle allocating buffers, since we have no packet length header
09:21 < unnicked701> why use C for that? there are better languages
09:21 <+md_5> unnicked701 my paradigm applies to any language / networking model not using threads
09:23 < unnicked701> md_5: just read the packet until it's finished or a disconnect occured
09:23 <+md_5> you dont understand
09:24 <+md_5> non-threaded
09:24 <+md_5> you cant just keep reading
09:24 <+md_5> that would block every other client
09:24 < unnicked701> ever heard of async sockets?
09:24 <+md_5> yes thats my point, and how do you go about picking a buffer size
09:25 < unnicked701> just pick it big enough to be able to keep any packet
09:25 < unnicked701> sorry don't have time to go into details
09:25 < unnicked701> experience is what will help yuo
09:25 <+md_5> > big enough to keep any packet
09:25  * md_5 head desk
09:26 < unnicked701> or allocate dynamically
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09:32 < jast> md_5: one comparably simple way is to add your own buffering layer; whenever you receive data, append it to your buffer and only drain the buffer when you have a complete protocol message
09:33 < jast> one project I know uses what they call buffer fragments, i.e. each newly received chunk of data is its own fragment and the full buffer is essentially a linked list of fragments
09:33 < jast> you probably get horrible allocation behaviour with that, but it works
09:34 < unnicked701> md_5: NessusMS 	Pbunny 	C (from wiki.vg/Server_List)
09:34 < unnicked701> maybe you should ask him
09:34 < dx> ...
09:34 < unnicked701> its described as using async networking
09:35 < dx> let's ignore this person.
09:35 < unnicked701> feel free to ignore me dx
09:35 < jast> "async networking" could mean a lot of things
09:36 < unnicked701> probably
09:36 < dx> md_5: my firefox is dead right now, but there was a C library linked from the wiki that had "zero copy" networking and not a single malloc. not sure if relevant, but, it's written in C.
09:36 <+md_5> dx I'll take it
09:36 <+md_5> unnicked701 yes nessus has a really good model
09:36 <+md_5> epoll with thread per connection
09:36 <+md_5> I love it
09:37 < unnicked701> any source?
09:38 <+md_5> yes, pbunny
09:38 <+md_5> > intermixes packet reads with app logic for optimization reasons too
09:38 <+md_5> dx any idea where it is
09:38 < dx> md_5: where is what?
09:38 <+md_5> Event based, zero-copy, portable Minecraft network protocol parser 
09:38 <+md_5> that looks like it
09:38 < dx> yeah
09:38 < dx> that one
09:39 <+md_5> ooh deoxxa
09:39 <+md_5> top bloke, lives just near me
09:39 < dx> kill -9'd firefox
09:39 < dx> it was using 6gb of RES
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09:41 <+pdelvo> btw pbunny has an instance of his server live oO
09:41 < Drainedsoul> md_5 what do you mean
09:41 < Drainedsoul> about buffers etc.
09:42 < Drainedsoul> thread per connection is about the worst idea I've heard all day, btw
09:44 < dx> well, if the thread is only going to do polls and reads, yes. if it's a connection thread with some other processing it makes sense
09:44 < dx> not my favorite kind of design but it could work
09:44 <+md_5> dx thats just the parser stuff not the networking
09:44 <+md_5> (this library you linked)
09:45 < dx> md_5: oh, he doesn't even handle sockets? welp.
09:45 < Drainedsoul> if you want to do no copy networking, you can just maintain a buffer (don't deallocate/reallocate/etc. it), and resize it as necessary
09:45 < Drainedsoul> the resizing will incur copies, but eventually it'll settle to a size that makes sense
09:45 < Drainedsoul> and not grow anymore
09:46 <+md_5> true
09:46 <+md_5> maintain buffer per client Drainedsoul ?
09:46 < Drainedsoul> I maintain two
09:46 <+md_5> buffer per thread I guess
09:46 < Drainedsoul> one read, one write thread for all clients, you read into the first buffer, dispatch an async handler to process that
09:47 < Drainedsoul> and then write into the second buffer if the async event is still ongoing
09:47 < Drainedsoul> async event folds the second buffer into the first if it finishes and second buffer isn't empty
09:47 < unnicked701> md_5: i asked about code source
09:47 <+md_5> <unnicked701> any source?
09:47 <+md_5> <md_5> yes, pbunny
09:47 < unnicked701> any place where i can see the code?
09:48 <+md_5> you are a nessus dev
09:48 <+md_5> ...
09:48 < unnicked701> no way
09:49 < dx> lol
09:52 < jast> "epoll with thread per connection"
09:52 < jast> :D
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09:53 < Drainedsoul> what is the point of using epoll if you have a thread for every connection
09:53 < unnicked701> no idea, i think md_5 just thought it up because he's jealous of pbunny
09:54 < jast> it looks like you're more of an expert if you use more fancy technology
09:54 < unnicked701> he doesn't have the code
09:54 < unnicked701> how can he know?
09:54 <+md_5> because pbunny said it himself
09:55 < unnicked701> maybe
09:55 < unnicked701> maybe not
09:55 < jast> maybe he used pbunnypoll instead, who knows
09:57 < unnicked701> :D
10:00 < AlphaBlend> who talks about pbunny, omg
10:00 < AlphaBlend> if you talk so highly of pbunny, you are pbunny
10:00 < AlphaBlend> rofl
10:01 < dx> and if you choose a nick with a different three digit suffix you're a completely different person
10:01 <+md_5> freenode_#mcdevs_20130221.log:[01:44:27] <pbunny> Stormx2: i use per-connection thread, per-world thread, and a pool of compression/decompression threads and ai threads maybe
10:01 <+md_5> @@ unnicked701 
10:02 < AlphaBlend> rofl...
10:02 < dx> i miss the good ol' times when i found this shit hilarious
10:02 <+md_5> also
10:02 <+md_5> freenode_##c_20130207.log:[22:41:15] <pbunny> hi, how many threads (pthreads) can i use until they will hog performance too much?
10:02 < AlphaBlend> my knowledge of threads as a use-case is rather rudimentary, but why don't i see anything good from that?
10:02 < Drainedsoul> omfg
10:03 < AlphaBlend> i can understand per-connection threads, but it's entirely based on circumstance
10:03 < unnicked701> md_5: he uses real-time compression/decompression?
10:03 < Drainedsoul> why would you use per connection threads, that's just incurring unnecessary overhead once the number of connections becomes high
10:04 <+md_5> unnicked701 you are the nessus developer, not me
10:04 < unnicked701> how did you make that conclusion?
10:04 < unnicked701> i wish i were, though
10:04 < AlphaBlend> tennable nessus?
10:05 < AlphaBlend> Drainedsoul: I suppose it's fine if the contract between the server and client warrants a quick conversation
10:05 < unnicked701> Drainedsoul: i agree with dx, these threads can do some processing that is occuring right after packet reading
10:06 < dx> except that what i said is not what pbunny does
10:06 < unnicked701> what does he do?
10:06 < dx> read up those quotes
10:06 <+md_5> he processes and reads at the same time xD
10:06 <+md_5>   entityId = readInt(..)
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10:06 <+md_5> Entity = entities[entityId]
10:06 < unnicked701> so?
10:06 <+md_5> readByte(). etc etc
10:07 < dx> lol
10:07 < Drainedsoul> I don't see how a quick conversation really has anything to do with it.  That's only a problem if you don't offload processing from the send/receive thread
10:07 < unnicked701> md_5: where did you get those?
10:07 < unnicked701> do you have the code or not?
10:07 < Drainedsoul> a thread per connection is just asking for a lot of threads sleeping when nothing is happening, and a lot of unnecessary context switches when something is happening
10:07 < dx> "a thread per player" could work in minecraft
10:08 <+AndrewPH> "Multiplayer first came only as client-to-client connection ("LAN")" <- wat? didn't minecraft /always/ have client-to-server connection?
10:08 < Drainedsoul> it could work, in minecraft, but that doesn't mean it's a good model
10:08 < dx> well, if you manage to get locking right, i'm not going to try that
10:08 < Drainedsoul> select, poll, kqueue, epoll, and completion ports exist to solve this problem specifically
10:10 < dx> Drainedsoul: well i meant it more like also handling the ticks that apply to chunks loaded by that player, or equivalent distribution of processing instead of doing everything in the main server thread
10:10 < dx> but uh
10:10 < dx> i can't think of any sane way to do it
10:11 <+AndrewPH> unnicked701: are you this guy http://youtu.be/6RtSGFryKwo?t=11m36s
10:11 < dx> that's just an idea that the server admin side of myself suggests without considering that it's probably a nightmare to implement
10:11 <+AndrewPH> "do you have the code?" vs "are you on the development team?"
10:11 < unnicked701> AndrewPH: no
10:12 <+AndrewPH> sure sounds like it :p
10:13 <+md_5> <unnicked701> sorry don't have time to go into details
10:13 <+md_5> seem to be using an aweful lot of time now xD
10:24 < jast> dx: due to the interactions between various chunks, threading the tick code will scale far from linearly anyway, so it probably makes more sense to use a small number of threads, roughly as many as cores
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10:25 < jast> internally, anyway. if you have a VM of some kind that takes care of the details, there's no reason not to use more green threads, I suppose
10:27 < dx> hmm good point
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11:16 < unnicked701> what is the purpose of "9 	(of self) Eating accepted by server" in 0x26 packet?
11:22 < Calinou> it allows you to... eat yourself
11:22 < unnicked701> lol
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13:06 < flotwig> wiki spam http://wiki.vg/User:Leon5555
13:19 < SinZ> Protocol History needs some trimming, as it thinks every snapshot this year is for 1.5.x
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16:59 < shoghicp> hey
16:59 < shoghicp> is https://login.minecraft.net the actual login server?
17:01 < dav1d> shoghicp: yes
17:01 < dav1d>     static const string LOGIN_URL = "https://login.minecraft.net";
17:01 < dav1d>     static const string JOIN_SERVER_URL = "http://session.minecraft.net/game/joinserver.jsp";
17:01 < dav1d>     static const string CHECK_SESSION_URL = "http://session.minecraft.net/game/checkserver.jsp";
17:01 < dav1d> all you need
17:01 < dav1d> not sure if check session, still exists
17:01 < shoghicp> weird
17:01 < shoghicp> I'm getting a blank page
17:02 < dav1d> shoghicp: you make a post request, right?
17:02 < shoghicp> yes
17:02 < shoghicp> it worked with GET before
17:02 < shoghicp> but I did a POST to test
17:02 < shoghicp> blank
17:02 < dav1d> shoghicp: https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/brala/network/session.d#L52
17:02 < dav1d> this works as it should
17:03 < shoghicp> It should be something with my page
17:03 < shoghicp> because the php client works
17:03 < shoghicp> using get
17:03 < shoghicp> xD
17:03 < shoghicp> thanks
17:05 < shoghicp> is there a way to get the username from the sessionId?
17:05 < dav1d> not that I know
17:07 < shoghicp> I could join a random server Id to check the username
17:07 < dav1d> shoghicp: you get the username from that request
17:08 < shoghicp> I know
17:08 < shoghicp> but having only the sessionId
17:08 < shoghicp> like on MCPE
17:08 < shoghicp> I'm finding a way to get the username. At least I can check it
17:08 < dav1d> to join a server you need the username
17:08 <+SirCmpwn> PE has nothing to do with vanilla auth
17:08 < shoghicp> but MCPE sessionId works on vanilla session
17:08 < shoghicp> ;)
17:09 < shoghicp> Just checked that
17:10 < shoghicp> So the sessionId that you get on the MCPE login page works to log in to PC servers
17:10 < shoghicp> I've Minecraft on my account, too
17:11 < Yoshi2> you want to get the username from the sessionID because you are using MCPE to log in?
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17:12 < Yoshi2> aren't you sending the username as part of the post request already, or does PE not need the username? 
17:12 < shoghicp> I'm trying to get an identifier from the session ID
17:12 < shoghicp> PE only sends the session ID to join servers
17:12 < shoghicp> then, the server gets the username
17:12 < shoghicp> but without knowing the username, I can't check its validity before
17:13 < Yoshi2> how does PE generate the session ID, if you don't know the username?
17:13 < shoghicp> you log in through account.mojang
17:13 < shoghicp> but the online server API
17:13 < shoghicp> only uses the sessionID
17:15 <+sadimusi> do you even have a unique username in mcpe?
17:15 < Yoshi2> ah, right, mojang changed the registration process around a bit so the email address is used for logging in instead of the username
17:15 < shoghicp> yes
17:15 < Yoshi2> well, so the email address can be used for logging in
17:15 < shoghicp> you get one on the register process
17:15 < shoghicp> I mean
17:15 <+sadimusi> I haven't played it in a while, but can't you just use any username on mobile?
17:15 < shoghicp> I've only the sessionId
17:16 < shoghicp> sadimusi: yes
17:16 < shoghicp> Sabriel: but I'm talking about pocket realms
17:18 < dav1d> shoghicp: loginto a PE server and save the username?
17:18 < shoghicp> but how to check that it is the correct user and not one eavesdropping
17:18 < shoghicp> hmm...
17:18 < shoghicp> it seems that with this sessionId I can sue the Realms API
17:18 < shoghicp> use*
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17:20 < shoghicp> hmm
17:21 < shoghicp> got a way to get the username xD
17:21 < shoghicp> It is really crazy, but should work
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19:23 < M6PIC> I changed my code, http://pastebin.com/tnG9nik1, to std.socketstream and now it doesn't work.
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20:50 < M6PIC> I changed back to Socket from SocketStream.
20:51 -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:51 < M6PIC> But MC complains that it is a 1.3 server.
20:55 < M6PIC> Am I sending the 0xFF reply packet incorrectly after the client sends an 0xFE packet.
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20:58 < Drainedsoul> M6PIC: What are you talking about?
20:58 < M6PIC> http://pastebin.com/tnG9nik1
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21:01 < fgsdfgd> t
21:01 -!- fgsdfgd is now known as ajvpot
21:01 < ajvpot> Hi
21:02 < Drainedsoul> you're saying the MC client connecting to this thinks that it's a 1.3 server?
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21:20 < M6PIC> Yes!
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21:38 < TRocket> M6PIC: are you sending the correct length?
21:38 -!- Yoshi2| [~chatzilla@xdsl-78-35-203-49.netcologne.de] has joined #mcdevs
21:39 < TRocket> the number of characters, not the number of bytes
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21:58 <+sadimusi> M6PIC: if it says it's 1.3 you didn't format the kick message correctly
22:01 < M6PIC> I know but I don't know how I am sending it incorrectly.
22:02 <+sadimusi> http://wiki.vg/Server_List_Ping
22:18 < M6PIC> I am sending the string null terminated and not the § terminated from 1.3 and before. ("§1\0" ~ "62\0" ~ "1.5.2\0" ~ "M6PIC\0" ~ "0\0" ~ "3", ~ means concat)
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22:22 <+sadimusi> M6PIC: I don't really know D, so I'll just try it out
22:25 <+sadimusi> M6PIC: looks like your length is wrong
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22:26 <+sadimusi> The first three bytes I get are \xff\x00\x00
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22:27 < TRocket> the number of characters, not the number of bytes :D
22:27 <+sadimusi> Since it's zero that probably isn't the error
22:28 <+Fador> short len[2] = [0,21]; client.send(len);
22:28 <+Fador> umm
22:30 <+Fador> M6PIC: maybe you should change "short" to "ubyte" there
22:34 < Yoshi2> Fador: unless I'm missing something, I'm sure it needs to be a short because strings in the minecraft protocol are prefixed with a short
22:34 <+Fador> ..short is two bytes
22:35 <+Fador> he seems to be sending two shorts now
22:36 < Yoshi2> is he sending two shorts? I'm not familiar with that kind of syntax at all
22:36 <+Fador> well it sure does look like it ;D
22:42 <+sadimusi> M6PIC: in case it helps, this is what I get: http://cl.ly/Pj59
22:42 <+sadimusi> so yes, you are probably sending two shorts
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22:45 < MitchellFrost> Hi
22:45 <+sadimusi> o/
22:46 < MitchellFrost> I wonder whether I can emulate a Linux terminal in Java 
22:47 <+sadimusi> I'm sure there's a way, but why are you asking this in a minecraft channel?
22:47 < MitchellFrost> It´s for my Minecraft control panel
22:48 < Drainedsoul> M6PIC: how quick does the client come back and say you're 1.3
22:48 < MitchellFrost> Couldn´t think of any other channel that isn´t full of people not knowing what they´re talking about
22:48 < M6PIC> Pretty much instantly.
22:48 <+sadimusi> MitchellFrost: so what exactly do you want to do? wrap the mc process and pass in commands through a web interface?
22:48 < MitchellFrost> Not really
22:48 < Yoshi2> I'm sure there are command line parsers for java which you can use instead of having to emulate a linux terminal
22:49 < MitchellFrost> I practically want to do what screen does
22:49 < MitchellFrost> In Java
22:49 < Drainedsoul> why not just use screen
22:49 < Drainedsoul> did you try Fador's suggestion M6PIC?
22:50 < MitchellFrost> Because I do not have enough control over that in Java
22:50 <+sadimusi> MitchellFrost: maybe this helps https://github.com/SimpleServer/SimpleServer/blob/master/src/simpleserver/minecraft/MinecraftWrapper.java
22:50 < Drainedsoul> what kind of control do you need
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22:51 < MitchellFrost> Drainedsoul, need to stream the terminal
22:51 < MitchellFrost> Instead of plaintext
22:51 < Drainedsoul> ...wat
22:51 < MitchellFrost> Well, it´s my goal, it´s not really a must
22:51 < dav1d> pdelvo: can you do me a favor and try the latest brala?
22:51 <+sadimusi> doesn't the vanilla server just use plaintext anyway?
22:52 <+pdelvo> jeah
22:52 < dav1d> pdelvo: → https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/issues/19
22:52 < MitchellFrost> sadimusi, but this is not vanilla lol
22:52 < M6PIC> I tried making the short array 1 long instead of 2 and there was a communication error.
22:52 <+sadimusi> MitchellFrost: jline? have fun with that :D
22:53 < Drainedsoul> are you watching the bytes that go across the wire in any way?
22:53 < MitchellFrost> sadimusi, hehe
22:53 < Drainedsoul> the idea of servers that take commands from the terminal is ridiculous
22:53 <+Fador> M6PIC: just change it to ubyte or fix the endianness ;)
22:54 <+sadimusi> MitchellFrost: this line made my life a whole lot easier ;) https://github.com/SimpleServer/SimpleServer/blob/master/src/simpleserver/minecraft/MinecraftWrapper.java#L59
22:54 < MitchellFrost> Drainedsoul, we actually have a few people that have some custom solution for their terminals
22:54 < M6PIC> No?  How do I fix the endianness?
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22:54 < Drainedsoul> endianness is byte order
22:54 < Drainedsoul> you have to reverse the sub-word byte order
22:54 < MitchellFrost> sadimusi, haha, I know, some clients put something nifty together for terminal though
22:54 < Drainedsoul> assuming your machine is little endian
22:54 < M6PIC> I know but how?, this is probably more a D question!
22:55 <+sadimusi> MitchellFrost: the easiest solution would probably be to hook directly into jline
22:55 <+sadimusi> maybe a bukkit plugin could do that
22:55 < Drainedsoul> yeah in C/C++ you basically access the integer as an array of chars and just reverse it
22:55 < Drainedsoul> I don't know what comparable faculties D has, but I can show you C++ code to do it
22:55 < MitchellFrost> sadimusi, I´m probably going to link a libary first though
22:55 < MitchellFrost> *try link
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22:56 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/3qp0cA
22:56 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 0ba4e45 - set tscreen shader version explicitly to 150
22:56 <+pdelvo> D Compiler why you no multithread :/
22:56 < Drainedsoul> multithreading isn't a compiler issue
22:57 < dav1d> pdelvo: you're using build_brala.d?
22:57 < M6PIC> If I change to ubyte there is also a communication error.
22:57 < dav1d> pdelvo: rdmd build_brala.d -j9
22:57 <+pdelvo> yep
22:57 < dav1d> or ./build_brala -j9
22:57 < Drainedsoul> a "short" is a signed 16-bit integer, so 2 bytes.  For big endian you need an array of bytes that's a big endian 16-bit signed integer representing 21 you need
22:57 < Drainedsoul> [0,21]
22:57 <+pdelvo> ahhh
22:57 <+pdelvo> much better
22:57 < Drainedsoul> in bytes, not in shorts
22:58 <+sadimusi> M6PIC: use wireshark or something to debug it
22:58 < Drainedsoul> also that
22:58 <+Fador> M6PIC: ubyte len[2] = [0,21]; client.send(len); ?
22:59 <+pdelvo> hm uses more cpu utilization but it is not much faster :D
22:59 < Drainedsoul> but keep in mind that's not a scalable solution, you need some way to manipulate the sub-word byte ordering
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22:59 < M6PIC> Communication error.
22:59 < dav1d> pdelvo: compilation of single files not na, but in general it should be faster
22:59 <+sadimusi> M6PIC: implementing a minecraft server when you don't yet know the basics of the language you're using might be a bad idea...
23:00 < M6PIC> Possibly!
23:00 < Drainedsoul> not understanding endianness/integer widths isn't not understanding the language, it's not understanding a certain fundament of computer science
23:00 <+pdelvo> the tesselation threads break. --- Exception in Thread: "BraLa Tessellation Thread 1/3" ---
23:00 <+pdelvo> core.exception.SwitchError@brala.dine.builder.tessellator(219): No appropriate switch clause found
23:00 <+pdelvo> all three
23:01 <+sadimusi> Drainedsoul: judging from the code he's pretty new to D
23:01 < M6PIC> I understand integer widths and a bit about endianness.
23:01 < Drainedsoul> well if you're going to do network communications you need to understand everything about endianness, since modern CPUs are all little endian whereas network comm is by convention big endian
23:02 < M6PIC> I understand the differences of byte order between different endiannesses.
23:03 < Drainedsoul> okay then you need to keep in mind that everything you write is probably little endian, whereas Minecraft wants it big endian, so the byte order has to be swapped
23:03 < Drainedsoul> if you want to write portable code though you can't assume that you're working with little endian, so you need code to detect and swap byte order if applicable
23:03 <+sadimusi> isn't there some kind of library for that?
23:03 <+sadimusi> like python's struct module?
23:04 < Drainedsoul> why would you need a library for a template that should be no more than 10 lines
23:04 < Drainedsoul> I believe Berkeley Sockets has several functions for changing byte orders
23:04 < dav1d> pdelvo: thanks, that's not the error he gets :(
23:04 <+sadimusi> because I want to have struct.pack(">h", 21) instead of 10 lines
23:05 <+pdelvo> I looked through the log and have not found it. 
23:05 < dav1d> pdelvo: "brala.dine.builder.tessellator(219)" doesn't exist :(
23:05 < Drainedsoul> you write the template once, the compiler inlines it whenever you call it
23:05 < dav1d> yeah, with his error it doesn't even start
23:05 <+sadimusi> sure, but I still have to write it myself
23:06 <+sadimusi> this is such a common task, that should be in the standard library of every language
23:06 < Drainedsoul> besides which, you shouldn't be using functions like that to build packets
23:06 < dav1d> pdelvo: can you send me the world again?
23:06 < Drainedsoul> you should have a library that abstracts the packet handling away from you
23:06 <+pdelvo> was on a server. I try it again locally
23:07 < dav1d> pdelvo: it will work there ;)
23:07 <+sadimusi> Drainedsoul: good enough? https://github.com/sadimusi/mc3p/blob/master/mc3p/messages.py
23:07 < dav1d> I use a lot of "final switch" (no default case), a few might fail e.g. slabs with invalid metadata
23:09 <+pdelvo> no error this time. but a black screen
23:10 < dav1d> pdelvo: locally?
23:10 <+pdelvo> jeah
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23:10 <+pdelvo> no error in the logs
23:10 < dav1d> pdelvo: try to build again with -o
23:11 <+pdelvo> I generated a fresh 1.5.2 map (I even redownloaded the server)
23:11 <+pdelvo> ok
23:11 < M6PIC> I have got to go now but I have updated Pastebin, http://pastebin.com/tnG9nik1.
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23:11 < dav1d> mh works here
23:12 <+pdelvo> the compiler crashed :D
23:12 < Drainedsoul> you're still making an array of two shorts
23:13 < M6PIC> I know but if I don't I get a Communication Error.
23:13 < dav1d> pdelvo: really? -.-
23:14 <+sadimusi> :m
23:14 < dav1d> pdelvo: "dmd -v"
23:14 < Drainedsoul> You can't send two shorts, that's not how the protocol works
23:14 <+pdelvo> I tried it again and it "worked" (It compiles without an error)
23:14 <+pdelvo> now the application cannot be startet. it is not a valid application...
23:14 < Drainedsoul> you must send two bytes and then a number of bytes equal to the 16-bit signed integer given by those bytes times 2
23:15 < dav1d> pdelvo: lol
23:16 < dav1d> pdelvo: when did you update dmd? today?
23:17 < Drainedsoul> also the MC protocol uses UCS-2, not UTF-16
23:17 -!- M6PIC [519f5dc8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.159.93.200] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
23:17 <+pdelvo> DMD32 D Compiler v2.062
23:18 < dav1d> mh
23:20 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/i2tSNw
23:20 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde fa0393b - build explicitly as 32bit executable on windows
23:20 < dav1d> pdelvo: ^
23:20 <+sadimusi> Drainedsoul: UCS-2 is just limited UTF-16
23:20 <+Fador> Drainedsoul: it's the toUTF16 that might be the problem with his code..
23:20 <+pdelvo> is there a clean command to delete the build dir and stuff?
23:21 < Drainedsoul> UCS-2 can encode orphaned high/low surrogates, whereas UTF-16 cannot
23:21 <+Fador> Drainedsoul: "str must not contain embedded '\0''s as any C function will treat the first '\0' that it sees as the end of the string."
23:21 <+sadimusi> Fador: I'm sure the string is wrong too, but it already fails at the length
23:21 <+pdelvo> that sucks. compiler breaked again
23:22 < dav1d> pdelvo: updating might help
23:22 < dav1d> pdelvo: -o compiles everything from scratch
23:22 < dav1d> or --no-cache
23:22 < Drainedsoul> I had no idea that D used C-style strings.  Sounds like it's time for a real string library.
23:22 <+pdelvo> but crashed the compiler if you dint delete the bin dir before?
23:23 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: it doesn't
23:23 < dav1d> pdelvo: that should not happen
23:23 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: D strings are arrays and arrays have a length
23:23 < Drainedsoul> okay then why is there a limitation on the characters in the string?
23:23 <+pdelvo> black screen. and no error in logs
23:23 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: also if you need functions operating on strings std.utf std.uni std.string std.array std.range std.algorithm, basically everything works with arrays
23:24 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: there is no limitation
23:24 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: not sure what you're talking about
23:24 <+Fador> oh wait, I might have looked at the wrong function =b
23:24 < Drainedsoul> lol
23:25 < dav1d> pdelvo: dammit :(
23:25 < dav1d> pdelvo: try with --renderer=forward (brala commandline)
23:25 <+pdelvo> yay I see something!
23:26 < dav1d> :'(
23:26 < dav1d> why can't I install virtualbox -.-
23:27 <+pdelvo> yay 800 to 1000fps :D
23:28 -!- Paprikachu [~Paprikach@77.116.60.243.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:28 < dav1d> pdelvo: did update the submodules right?
23:28 <+pdelvo> jeah
23:30 < dav1d> dammit :(
23:30 < dav1d> it is supposed to work
23:30 < dav1d> pdelvo: brala\gfx\renderer.d line 70
23:31 <+pdelvo> /         display = &display_debug;?
23:31 < dav1d> pdelvo: remove the comments there and start it without the --renderer
23:31 < dav1d> pdelvo: yes
23:34 <+pdelvo> no difference
23:35 < dav1d> pdelvo: what's your frame-time?
23:36 <+pdelvo> 2-5ms
23:36 <+pdelvo> frapsis showing me 9999fps
23:36 < dav1d> pdelvo: with the black screen?
23:36 <+pdelvo> jeah
23:36 < dav1d> mh, so the texture isn't displayed
23:36 -!- shoghicp_ is now known as shoghicp
23:37 < dav1d> I need windows...
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23:52 < dav1d> did I miss something, I am on win now
23:53 <+pdelvo> in a vm?
23:55 < dav1d> no windows xp
23:55 < dav1d> dualboot
23:55 < dav1d> good old xp
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--- Day changed mer. juin 19 2013
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00:21 < dav1d> pdelvo: I think something is wrong
00:21 < dav1d> no black screen here
00:21 < dav1d> works flawless
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00:24 < dav1d> http://i.imgur.com/ri0D8rm.png
00:27 -!- Stephen304 [4b6e13e2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.110.19.226] has joined #mcdevs
00:27 < Stephen304> Hey Dav1d? Still trying to get BraLa to work.... [18:23:55.561] Main: WARN: GLFW ERROR(458759): WGL: Failed to create OpenGL context
00:28 < dav1d> Stephen304: ah hi
00:28 < dav1d> yeah I saw that on the issue
00:28 < Stephen304> It's in the log
00:28 < dav1d> Stephen304: can you tell me which graphics card cou have?
00:28 < dav1d> *you
00:28 < Stephen304> Intel HD 4000
00:28 < dav1d> gah I expected that
00:28 < Stephen304> Didn't know intel graphics sucked so bad
00:29 < dav1d> Stephen304: btw. does the shader load now?
00:29 < dav1d> I don't think that is an intel problem, more of a glfw problem
00:30 < Stephen304> You mean the glamour shader? Still syntax error
00:30 < dav1d> wow
00:30 < dav1d> I am on windows atm and it compiles here
00:30 < dav1d> can you open res/brala.conf and comment out the line with the tscreen.shader
00:31 < dav1d> you need to adjust indices (after removing/commenting out with #)
00:31 < Stephen304> It actually continues to run and outputs mem debug messages and shows sending snoop
00:31 < Stephen304> Yeah just a sec
00:31 < dav1d> yeah that is an issue with the snooper thread
00:31 < dav1d> if it fails between two points in the startup code, the thread is never killed
00:32 < Stephen304> So now adjust indicies?
00:32 < dav1d> right before you joined (3mins) http://i.imgur.com/ri0D8rm.png
00:32 < dav1d> Stephen304: sec, I paste the conf
00:33 < dav1d> Stephen304: http://vp.dav1d.de/jl1
00:33 < Stephen304> Ah okay got it
00:34 < Stephen304> So how do I rebuild cleanly? Never used d before
00:34 < dav1d> dmd build_brala.d
00:34 < dav1d> ./build_brala -o
00:34 < dav1d> use the -j flag to adjust the number of threads for a parallel build
00:34 < dav1d> -j9 e.g.
00:35 < dav1d> -o overrides the cache
00:35 < dav1d> if you change the config you don't need to rebuild though
00:35 < Stephen304> Oh okay!
00:36 < Stephen304> well still has the same error, but it doesn't keep running
00:36 < Stephen304> No syntax error
00:37 < dav1d> what happens?
00:37 < dav1d> it should crash at some point
00:37 < Stephen304> No UI implemented [18:35:49.290] Engine: INFO: Triggering on_shutdown
00:37 < dav1d> yeah, you need to pass a host
00:37 < Stephen304> then it cleans up and exits
00:37 < dav1d> -hlocalhost e.g.
00:38 < dav1d> for a offline server you can use --offline
00:38 < Stephen304> Okay
00:38 < Stephen304> brala.exception.ResmgrError@brala\resmgr.d(208): No Shader with id "tscreen" ava ilable.
00:38 < dav1d> if you don't wanna type your password into commandline you can use -c (assuming you have minecraft installed and did save your password with the launcher)
00:38 < dav1d> Stephen304: that's good, now add "--renderer forward"
00:39 < Stephen304> I get frame times in console, and blue screen
00:40 < dav1d> no terrain?
00:40 < Stephen304> nope
00:40 < dav1d> if not, look through bin/brala.log
00:40 < dav1d> there should be every error noted
00:41 < Stephen304> only [18:40:53.589] Main: WARN: GLFW ERROR(458759): WGL: Failed to create OpenGL context
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00:44 < dav1d> Stephen304: and you only see a blue screen, did you look around?
00:44 < dav1d> also make sure you're in creative or the server allows flying
00:44 < Stephen304> Nothing seems to change anything, tried wasd and mouse moving
00:45 < dav1d> do you see in the console logs like: 
00:45 < dav1d> [00:39:35.398] Memory: DEBUG: (c)allocated 65536 times 4 bytes. Pointer: 0x055202f0. brala\dine\chunk.d:122 [00:39:35.413] Memory: DEBUG: (c)allocated 65536 times 4 bytes. Pointer: 0x05560304. brala\dine\chunk.d:122 [00:39:35.413] Game: INFO: 5 chunks incoming
00:45 < dav1d> Stephen304: ^
00:45 < Stephen304> I see a lot of those until it seems like it finished connecting then i just get frame times
00:46 < dav1d> mh so chunks arrive
00:46 < dav1d> Stephen304: do you connect to a freshly generated map?
00:47 < Stephen304> nope my existing server in which i am creative
00:47 < dav1d> could you try a new one? only to see if that may cause it
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00:47 < dav1d> there might be problems crashing the "tessellation" threads (which convert blocks into geometry)
00:48 < dav1d> if some blocks aren't implemented properly (which shouldn't be the case though)
00:51 < Stephen304> BINGO
00:51 < Stephen304> works on a fresh server
00:51 < dav1d> Stephen304: great!
00:52 < dav1d> Stephen304: could you send me a copy of that map?
00:52 < dav1d> (ingame username or coordinates would also be useful)
00:53 < Stephen304> Making progress. It actually kind of works on my existing server, mouse sensitivity is way too low and only a littbel bit is rendering, everything else is blue so i thought it was all blue
00:54 < dav1d> Stephen304: you can increase the mouse sensitivity in the config 
00:54 < dav1d> that is not optimal, gotta figure out why it differs from system to system
00:55 < dav1d> yeah that means the tessellation thread crashes
00:55 < dav1d> I was preparing a "fix" on linux which would kill brala immediatly if that happens
00:55 < dav1d> Stephen304: can you replace the file src\d\glamour\glamour\shader.d with http://vp.dav1d.de/UMK2A
00:56 < dav1d> then revert the config:
00:56 < dav1d> http://vp.dav1d.de/aVd3
00:57 < dav1d> this should print out the shader before crashing
00:57 < Stephen304> do i need to rebuild?
00:58 < dav1d> yes
00:58 < dav1d> ./build_brala 
00:58 < dav1d> this should happen relativly fast (no need for -o)
00:58 < dav1d> it only compiles the changed file(s)
00:58 < Stephen304> gives me "'.' is not recognized as an internal or external command,"
00:59 < dav1d> Stephen304: is there more context?
00:59 < Stephen304> oh the build_brala.exe? got it
00:59 < dav1d> ah yeah, sorry, that was linux
00:59 < dav1d> build_brala.exe 
01:00 < dav1d> (I am using cygwin on windows)
01:00 < Stephen304> k outputs too much to be seen, know how to pipe output to a file?
01:00 < dav1d> Stephen304: bin\bralad *arguments* > out.txt
01:01 < dav1d> should write the output into a newly created file out.txt
01:02 < Stephen304> http://pastebin.com/LebbB66j
01:04 < dav1d> mh yeah there is definitly stuff missing
01:05 < dav1d> aha
01:05 < dav1d> I bet I can blame intel for that one
01:05 < Stephen304> lol
01:05 < dav1d> Stephen304: try to remove the semicolon at line 12
01:05 < dav1d> "};" -> "}"
01:06 < dav1d> (no need to recompile)
01:06 < dav1d> whenever you change something in res\ nothing has to be recompiled
01:07 < Stephen304> what file is that in?
01:08 < dav1d> Stephen304: ha sorry, res\shader\tscreen.shader
01:09 < Stephen304> still all blue
01:10 < Stephen304> or maybe thats an improvement i cant keep track of all the changes
01:10 < Stephen304> but same as before
01:10 < dav1d> awesome :)
01:10 < dav1d> Stephen304: that means the issue on github is basically resolved
01:10 < dav1d> ok gimmy a sec gotta reboot into linux
01:11 < Stephen304> Ah lol k. I would try to figure out why only a small bit of ground is rendering on my server but every time i try to move i get repositioned
01:13 < dav1d> here we go
01:13 < dav1d> Stephen304: you get repositioned because you move into a wall, that's the server resetting your position
01:14 < Stephen304> oh i get it... it's because im stuck underground...
01:14 < dav1d> Stephen304: if you could send me the map I can try to figure out what's going wrong
01:14 < dav1d> there is a block which is not properly implemented
01:14 < dav1d> which causes terrain generation to fail
01:15 < Stephen304> it all makes sense... when underground everything looks blue except the faces that face towards you... so i just need to reposition my character. idk how i got that way in the first place though
01:15 < dav1d> I think windows eats the traceback, which is unfortunate
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01:15 < dav1d> ah yeah that could be it
01:16 < dav1d> since the camera is at your "feet"
01:16 < dav1d> (not properly implemented ;))
01:16 < dav1d> on my todo though
01:19 < Stephen304> Well a lot of stuff still isn't rendering, like my house. I'm above ground now
01:20 < dav1d> yeah I guess there is a bug
01:20 < dav1d> sounds like the usual symptoms
01:20 < Stephen304> looks like a chunk based problem
01:20 < Stephen304> only 4 chucks loading
01:20 < dav1d> yes and no
01:21 < dav1d> chunks are tessellated individually by 3 threads, now if one chunk has a problem (a block which causes the thread to die) all threads will die
01:21 < dav1d> since every thread tries to generate geometry for that chunk
01:21 < Stephen304> ah that makes sense
01:21 < dav1d> if that happens there are no more threads to generate the other chunks
01:22 < Stephen304> so new block or something causes that?
01:22 < dav1d> more likely a block I didn't implement correctly
01:23 < dav1d> e.g. metadata interpreted not correctly or even a malicous block placed with mcedit could cause that on purpose
01:23 < dav1d> everything which could raise an exception in the geometry-building code
01:23 < dav1d> new unimplemented blocks are generally ignored
01:24 < Stephen304> Any way to add exception handling to just make a purple block render in the case of an error like that?
01:24 < dav1d> would be possible, but for now I prefer it to fail, because I then know something failed and debugging it makes it easier
01:24 < dav1d> but yeah I should probably do that
01:24 < dav1d> normally there would be 3 stacktraces in the log
01:25 < dav1d> seems like windows doesn't generate these for threads
01:25 < dav1d> (well the d runtime)
01:25 < Stephen304> well thanks for the help! I g2g now. I'm looking forward to more updates :P
01:25 < dav1d> awesome
01:25 < dav1d> thanks for your help :)
01:25 < dav1d> cya
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01:26 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±3] http://git.io/waetyQ
01:26 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 4b1f142 - exit game if one tessellation thread died
01:26 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 492edbe - fix lovely shader issue on intel GPUs
01:45 <+Prf_Jakob> dav1d: Windows or Linux driver intel GPU?
01:45 < dav1d> Prf_Jakob: windows
01:45 < dav1d> Prf_Jakob: they asked me the same in #opengl :)
01:45 < dav1d> Prf_Jakob: but probably also happens on linux
01:45 < dav1d> Prf_Jakob: it's the shader compiler
01:45 <+Prf_Jakob> dav1d: then it doesn't happen on Linux.
01:45 < dav1d> actually linking failed
01:46 < dav1d> compilation worked
01:46 <+Prf_Jakob> dav1d: the intel windows driver is crappy
01:46 < dav1d> Prf_Jakob: why? do they use a different compiler?
01:46 <+Prf_Jakob> dav1d: completely different codebase
01:46 < dav1d> ohhh
01:46 < dav1d> linux is mesa, right?
01:46 <+Prf_Jakob> yeah
01:46 < dav1d> they don't have their own intel driver like fglrx and nvidia
01:46 < dav1d> I see
01:47 < dav1d> holy shit windows 7 I hate you
01:47 < dav1d> installing updates in a vm takes forever
01:48 < dav1d> zz time already passed 2 hours ago -.-, cya
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01:53 <+Prf_Jakob> dav1d: good night
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17:08 < geohhot> hello everybody 
17:08 <+sadimusi> hi
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17:50 < Sanky_> does anybody know what are the reasons behind the new launcher
17:50 < Sanky_> or is it just thinly veined antipiracy
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18:21 < unnicked314> Sanky_: how will it protect against piracy?
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18:45 < Sanky_> unnicked314: I guess they'll have to redownload :)
18:46 < Sanky_> nah, whatever, I just don't quite get why they can't keep the old one working.
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19:23 < TRocket> does anyone know who "mthinkcpp"(github) is? someone on #mcdevs?
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20:05 < M6PIC> I still can't get my code, http://pastebin.com/tnG9nik1, to work. I have changed the short array to a length of 1 and the length of the string to big-endian.
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20:27 <+sadimusi> M6PIC: use wireshark
20:29 <+sadimusi> M6PIC: you're still sending 0xff000015...
20:36 < TRocket_> https://github.com/TRocket/GCMC/blob/master/src/server.cpp
20:37 < TRocket_> if it helps...
20:37 <+pdelvo> good morning everyone
20:38 < Yoshi2> good evening, pdelvo
20:38 < eddyb> TRocket_: are you writing C in C++?
20:41 < TRocket_> eddyb: yup, i keep forgetting i'm in c++ :P
20:42 < eddyb> you lack the magik
20:56 < M6PIC> I am using wireshark, it's just a little confusing.
20:56 < TRocket_> what's confusing
20:57 < TRocket_> just select interfaces and click capture
20:58 < TRocket_> and "tcp.port==25565" is the answer to a question that you will prbably ask
20:58 < M6PIC> I have set the filter to port 25565.
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21:04 < M6PIC> I get https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BzqffJgvxWeWc29Jd1lrWWMwY00/edit?usp=sharing
21:09 < TRocket_> hmm client sends 0xFE
21:09 < TRocket_> server sends 0xFF
21:10 < TRocket_> then a string length of 0??
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21:11 < M6PIC> That must mean /i
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21:11 < M6PIC> I'm incorrectly sending the length. (Accidentally pressed enter instead of backspace)
21:11 < TRocket_> then https://github.com/TRocket/GCMC/blob/master/src/server.cpp
21:11 < TRocket_> lol
21:12 < Calinou> I read "GCC"
21:12 < TRocket_> wait i meant idk
21:12 < M6PIC> I understand how to use it know.
21:12 < TRocket_> good
21:14 < M6PIC> I see that I'm sending 0x000015000000401f9500
21:14 < TRocket_> yeah
21:14 < M6PIC> There shouldn't be so many zeroes at the beginning.
21:15 < M6PIC> 2 less
21:15 < dav1d> M6PIC: you know what one "0" represents?
21:15 < M6PIC> 0b0000 I think
21:16 < dav1d> ah, fine :)
21:16 < TRocket_> you need to send the length as the number of characters and not the number of bytes
21:16 <+sadimusi> TkTech: that's not the problem
21:17 < dav1d> TRocket_: which is bytes*2
21:17 <+sadimusi> sry
21:17 <+sadimusi> * TRocket_ 
21:17 < TRocket_> dav1d: bytes/2
21:17 < dav1d> TRocket_: no
21:17 < dav1d> *yes
21:17 < dav1d> my bad
21:18 < TRocket_> yeah, i had to work THAT one out the hard way...
21:18 < TRocket_> hours of wondering why it wasn't working
21:19 < dav1d> D ftw
21:19 < dav1d> wstring.length
21:25 < Yoshi2> dav1d: what does wstring.length do in D?
21:25 < dav1d> Yoshi2: wstring is a UTF-16 string
21:25 < dav1d> so it returns basically "bytes/2"
21:25 < Yoshi2> ah
21:26 < dav1d> not codepoints though
21:27 < M6PIC> I should definitely be sending 0x0015000000401f9500.
21:28 < TRocket_> don't think so
21:29 < TRocket_> i sent unsigned char data[42] = { 0x00, 0xA7, 0x00, 0x31, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00,0x36, 0x00, 0x31, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x31, 0x00, 0x2E, 0x00,0x35, 0x00, 0x2E, 0x00, 0x32, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x47, 0x00,0x43, 0x00, 0x4D, 0x00, 0x43, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x30, 0x00,0x00, 0x00, 0x32, 0x00, 0x30 };
21:30 < TRocket_> and that's a fairly minimal ping message
21:30 < TRocket_> maybe use that and adapt it
21:33 <+sadimusi> M6PIC: in your case it should be ff001500a7003100000036003200000031002e0035002e00320000004d00360050004900430000003000000033
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21:59 < M6PIC> So it's not at all sending the string correctly.
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22:18 <+md_5> Grum is text: {} still in 1.6.0?
22:19 < Grum> at minimum how it is for the current snapshot, which means it should have some compat
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22:25 <+md_5> Grum thanks! much appreciated
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22:38 < Grum> md_5: absolutely no guarantees, we got some time left ;)
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--- Day changed jeu. juin 20 2013
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01:16 < ajvpot> whats the mcp hannel again?
01:16 < ajvpot> ah
01:16 < ajvpot> esper
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01:30 < Drainedsoul> Does the client always send keep alives with ID 0?
01:31 <+sadimusi> iirc he sends back the id he got from the server
01:31 < Drainedsoul> yeah but the client may independent send keep alives too
01:31 <+sadimusi> then it's 0
01:32 < Drainedsoul> okay cool, just wanted to make sure
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03:44 < flotwig> I HATE U!!!! >:-( . . .
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05:34 < dx> lolwat
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09:09 < Drainedsoul> is there some kind of guide to what characters are and are not acceptable in Minecraft usernames?
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09:11 <+SirCmpwn> I believe it's [A-Za-z0-9_]+
09:11 <+SirCmpwn> not certain, though
09:12 <+SirCmpwn> you log in with an email address, though
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09:12 < Drainedsoul> no I don't : |
09:12 <+SirCmpwn> for all new accounts, that is
09:12 <+SirCmpwn> and migrated accounts
09:12 < Drainedsoul> ah okay
09:13 < Drainedsoul> I was more interested in determining if the username a client sends in 0x02 is at all reasonable
09:14 <+SirCmpwn> I've never seen something that doesn't match [A-Za-z9-0_]+
09:14 <+SirCmpwn> I'd just validate them when you do the online-mode check anyway
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09:21 <+SirCmpwn> good luck with whatever you're doing, I'm going to sleep
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09:53 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2040 3 files : Implemented RealisticMapGen.CreateParameters(string). Renamed "Random" template to "Default" (which it is). Minor cleanup in FlatMapGen.
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11:05 <+pdelvo> @Drainedsoul why do you need that? you can just try o validate it with minecraft.net (escape it) and you know if it is correct or not
11:49 < Drainedsoul> I was just interested in avoiding the HTTP request, but if there's no set in stone rule I'll just stick with that
11:58 < SinZ> well, if they are going to pass authentication, it would be a valid username anyway
12:00 < Drainedsoul> that assumes that they were going to pass authentication.  My point is that if you could detect invalid usernames you could avoid going through authentication.
12:02 < dx> so it's just some sort of optimization?
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13:10 < Drainedsoul> yeah, it just would've been an optimization in case someone opened a socket and sent a garbage 0x02
13:14 <+pdelvo> you can implement a connection throttle
13:15 < dx> yeah, nothing stops anyone from sending garbage that has a valid player name
13:16 < dx> so throttle sounds better
13:16 <+pdelvo> asdkjhakjs is a valid  name
13:16 < dx> probably even registered, too
13:26 < Drainedsoul> I didn't realize that the options were mutually exclusive
13:28 < unnicked668> you can use offline mode for best optimisation
13:28 < unnicked668> http requests will never be needed :)
13:29 < dav1d> another wise tip brought to you by pbunny!
13:31 < dx> Drainedsoul: of course they are not "mutually exclusive" but it's just rather pointless to filter by that if you really want to protect against login packets causing too much load.
13:32 < dx> dav1d: if it was anyone else, i'd assume it's a joke.
13:32 < dx> dav1d: in this case i'm not sure
13:32 < dav1d> dx: yeah unfortunatly it isn't anyone else
13:32 < unnicked668> Drainedsoul: you can then auto-register new nicks and bind them to IPs or something
13:32 < dx> dav1d: ...unfortunately it wasn't a joke either
13:32 < unnicked668> and maybe limit number of nicks per IP
13:33 < dx> so yeah
13:34 < dx> outright suggestion of piracy by the guy who refuses to tell us if he ever bought an account
13:35 < dx> just saying.
13:36 < dav1d> dx: oh he told us, his friends test for him, since he has none
13:37 < unnicked668> i'm not pbunny, wtf
13:37 < unnicked668> he asked for login optimization, i gave him the only way to do it
13:37  * dx facepalms
13:37 < Drainedsoul> when did I ask for anything other than an answer to the question, which SirCmpwn gave hours ago?
13:38 < unnicked668> <Drainedsoul> I was just interested in avoiding the HTTP request, but if there's no set in stone rule I'll just stick with that <- here
13:38 < unnicked668> i gave you the best way to avoid it :p
13:38  * dav1d facepalms
13:38 < unnicked668> ( didn't get the stone part though )
13:38 < Drainedsoul> avoiding doing work where it's unnecessary isn't the same as just avoiding it altogether
13:39 < Drainedsoul> otherwise dereferencing null pointers would be the best optimization ever
13:39 < Drainedsoul> instantly avoid doing any work!  Have the OS kill your process!
13:39 < unnicked668> ah i see
13:39 < dx> :D
13:39 < unnicked668> but you didn't tell us it is necessary to do minecraft.net auth
13:39 < dav1d> rm -rf /usr/bin/*
13:39 < dav1d> here
13:39 < dav1d> no compiler, no work
13:39 < unnicked668> dav1d: no life, no suffering :p
13:39 < dav1d> go ahead
13:39 < unnicked668> no work too
13:42 <+pdelvo> each program can be optimized by one code line, each program has at least one bug -> each program can be optimized to one line which doesnt work :p
13:42 < Drainedsoul> that's the best thing I've read all day
13:43 < dav1d> pdelvo: "main;"
13:44 < dx> $ echo 'main;' | gcc -xc -
13:44 < dx> <stdin>:1:1: warning: data definition has no type or storage class [enabled by default]
13:44 < dx> nice.
13:44 < dx> didn't know that compiled, i always did main(){}
13:44 < dav1d> echo "main;" | gcc -x c -
13:44 < dav1d> ah yeah
13:44 < dav1d> too slow
13:44 < dx> :D
13:44 < SinZ> How is unnicked still in here?
13:44 < dav1d> SinZ: dunno
13:45 < dx> or maybe "why" is the right question
13:45 < dx> or "why does he bother" or "what does he want to accomplish"
13:46 < unnicked668> what do you want to accomplish dx?
13:48 < dx> i want to fix the design flaws in craftirc3 to have a decent api to create bridges with
13:48 < dx> unfortunately that's something nobody in here cares about
13:48 < dx> and nobody else would have asked
13:48 < unnicked668> what is craftirc3?
13:49 < dx> meanwhile a lot of people are wondering why YOU are here
13:49 < unnicked668> yep, that bothers me too
13:49 < dx> ...well interesting
13:52 < unnicked668> so what is craftirc3? github readme isn't highly descriptive
13:53 < dx> yeah, worst readme ever, seriously. that's the first thing i'd like to have nuked
13:53 < dx> but since it contains the license text it's not possible
13:53 < dx> it's just a bridge between irc channels and minecraft chat. really complex shit.
13:54 < dx> anyway
13:54 < unnicked668> sounds like a 2-day work
13:54 < Drainedsoul> java code ugh
13:54 < Drainedsoul> my condolences
13:54 < unnicked668> unless there's more to it
13:55 < unnicked668> Drainedsoul: what is wrong with java?
13:55 < Drainedsoul> checked exceptions
13:55 < dav1d> oh come on
13:55 < unnicked668> Drainedsoul: the just make debugging easier
13:55 < dav1d> dx: forge has an irc plugin
13:56 < dx> dav1d: i know, it's really really bad
13:56 < Drainedsoul> I don't see how they make debugging easier in ways that a debugger and/or stack traces wouldn't
13:56 < dx> dav1d: and closed source
13:56 < dav1d> dx: oh
13:56 < dx> dav1d: why did you mention forge, anyway? this is bukkit
13:57 < dav1d> dx: dunno
13:57 < dx> lol.
13:57 < r04r> dx: start from scratch, dump in jerk, be done in a day?
13:58 < unnicked668> Drainedsoul: they are more OOP way of debugging
13:58 < dx> r04r: wot
13:58 < r04r> dx: jerklib is just some irc library that works well
13:58 < Drainedsoul> what, checked exceptions?  Does that mean C# and C++ aren't OOP.  Neither of them have checked exceptions.
13:58 < unnicked668> Drainedsoul: not as OOP as java is
13:59 < unnicked668> they were derived from functional languages
13:59 < Drainedsoul> wat
13:59 < Drainedsoul> they have "C" in the fucking name
13:59 < unnicked668> so they have flaws
13:59 < dx> r04r: oh lol, that one. irc is not a problem, it's just that the way messages are routed has a decent amount of complexity and allows for many interesting setups, so it needs a lot of thought to get right
13:59 < Drainedsoul> how was C++ which started out as "C with classes" derived from a functional language, which C definitely is not
14:00 < r04r> dx: Ok gotcha, I don't know much about that plugin but that's what worked well, and easily, for me when I made an irc bridge in the client
14:00 < unnicked668> C is procedural language
14:00 < Drainedsoul> you said "they were derived from functional languages"
14:00 < Drainedsoul> which is patently false
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14:02 < unnicked668> sorry i prefer "function" term to "procedure" because the latter reminds me of object pascal
14:02 < unnicked668> i thought you'll understand
14:02 < Drainedsoul> functional programming is totally different from procedural programming.
14:03 < dx> r04r: i'm not the one who is going to do the rewrite anyway, i'm not great at java
14:03 < Drainedsoul> Haskell, Erlang are functional languages
14:03 < r04r> dx: Alright, do you know who will? Or is it just up for grabs
14:03 < dx> r04r: mbaxter
14:03 < r04r> dx: kk thanks
14:04 < Drainedsoul> dx: There's only one way to get "great at java" : p
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14:05 < r04r> 0.1337 BAC is the one and only way ^
14:05 < dx> Drainedsoul: i always thought i was decent until i started working with moderately large code.
14:05 < dx> lol r04r
14:05 < Drainedsoul> dx: what was it about "moderately large code" that threw you off?
14:07 < dx> Drainedsoul: well actually, it's not so much about the size, but about the difference between understanding and writing code, and having to write non-trivial code at that.
14:07 < dx> there are lots of small details i've never considered before
14:08 < Drainedsoul> ah okay.  Well, the only way to learn is still by doing : P
14:08 < dx> yep!
14:08 < r04r> dx: can you think of any examples? Now that you're describing it like that I'm curious about your experiences
14:09 < dx> r04r: i still have to think a few secs whenever i have to add static/final/private/public variables, and anything that involves collections and iteratiors makes me want to ask stack overflow what's the best solution for each problem
14:09 < Drainedsoul> ugh right, Java methods are virtual-by-default, another reason to hate it...
14:10 < r04r> dx: Gotcha. Do you consider yourself to be better at other languages?
14:10 < dx> actually i've stayed away from java for a long time because of that 'hate'
14:10 < Drainedsoul> it's really awful.
14:10 < dx> it's not as bad as i thought
14:11 < r04r> I really enjoy java, but it is somewhat verbose... 
14:11 < Drainedsoul> everytime I think that I've come to grips with all the awful things about Java, I discover more
14:11 < dx> r04r: yeah i guess at least i feel "fluent" at them. starting coding like this again makes me feel young :D
14:11 < Drainedsoul> this is exacerbated by the fact that I don't write Java, so there are things to hate I don't know about
14:11 < Drainedsoul> I discovered a few days ago that it doesn't have the concept of an unsigned integer...
14:12 < dx> by "young" i mean that learning lots of things about a programming language feels good, and i haven't felt that in a long time
14:12 < Drainedsoul> you should learn C++.
14:12 < dx> nah fuck C++
14:12 < Drainedsoul> there's lots of things to learn, keep you feeling young
14:12 < Drainedsoul> wtf
14:12 < dx> just kidding
14:12 < Drainedsoul> you haven't truly programmed until you've written a nice long template metaprogram
14:12 < dx> i have the same reasons to avoid C++ as i had to avoid java
14:13 < dx> "because it's awful"
14:13 < Drainedsoul> well Java is awful because it's ridiculously and dogmatically limited
14:13 < dx> now i believe i don't have the right to complain about that before i experience it myself
14:13 < Drainedsoul> the reason people consider C++ to be awful is...the opposite
14:14 < dx> my new reason to not learn c++ is "because i have nothing interesting to do with it"
14:14 < r04r> C++ is amazing, but not for productivity when alternatives are available :D
14:14 < Drainedsoul> that really depends on what you're doing, and how you measure "productivity"
14:15 < dx> r04r: in those cases i'd rather use C
14:15 < Drainedsoul> ugh no
14:15 < dx> hah.
14:15 < Drainedsoul> C interop in C++ is a thing of beauty
14:15 < r04r> I measure productivity by getting shit done with as little bugs as possible in as little time as possible
14:15 < Drainedsoul> yeah but what is "getting shit done"
14:15 < r04r> new features, bugfixes, whatever employer/customer/self wants to happen
14:15 < dx> vaguely relevant: https://medium.com/tech-talk/afcfa2920c17
14:16 < r04r> while maintining maintainability
14:16 < Drainedsoul> yeah C++ is no more or less maintainable than any other language
14:16 < Drainedsoul> I mean you can write horrible, unmaintainable C++ code, but you can write horrible, unmaintainable code in any other language too
14:17 < r04r> Yeah I agree, but it's easier to write unmaintainable C++ code, than (for example) Java code, in my experience
14:17 < dx> i'm deja-vu-ing so hard right now.
14:17 < dx> i'm not sure if it's just a deja vu or if i've really heard arguments like this a thousand times before
14:18 < Drainedsoul> I'd agree that it's easier to write unmaintainable code, but I don't think it's any harder to write maintainable code.  The same principles apply, just that C++ has a lot more sirens calling you away
14:18 < Drainedsoul> but I'd honestly much rather be able to rip libraries straight into a C++ program that have to deal with something convoluted like JNI or P/Invoke or finding a wrapper
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14:22 < dx> whoops looks like i have to wake up in 5 hours. fun.
14:22 < dx> see you later #programminglanguagediscussions
14:23 < r04r> bye dx!
14:23 < r04r> sleep well ;)
14:24 < r04r> Drainedsoul: If you require native libraries then Java might not be a good choice for your problem, but honestly to me it all seems like different tools for different jobs. C++ is undeniabely better for many types of problems, but Java can be many times more convient to write. But really, I'm not interested in arguing programming languages so sorry for starting that :P
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14:27 < Grum> food for thought; if minecraft was c++, how would you do crossplatform dynamically loadable plugins easily? :D
14:27 < Drainedsoul> you wouldn't.  You'd dlopen shared objects on Linux and LoadLibrary dlls on Windows
14:28 < SinZ> Ooh, Grum talked, inb4 huge argument
14:28 < Drainedsoul> make a consistent interface, implement the OS-specific code behind that interface, only the file extensions change between platforms
14:28 < Drainedsoul> do that with #ifdef
14:28 < Grum> Drainedsoul: also osx
14:28 < Drainedsoul> I'm pretty sure dlopen works on OSX since it's part of POSIX, but I could be totally wrong
14:28 < Grum> so this means that every plugin-dev needs to have all 3 operating systems to code, test and compile their plugin
14:29 < Grum> eversoconvenient--
14:29 < Drainedsoul> are you saying that Java does not have platform-specific issues
14:29 < SinZ> not nearly as many
14:30 < dav1d> Grum: lua
14:30 < dav1d> :D
14:30 < dav1d> (I'd prefer python, but lua is more lightweight)
14:30 < SinZ> ship an entire scripting language interpreter with the launcher
14:30 < Drainedsoul> there's also that option, implement the core in C++ and run something else ontop of it
14:30 < Grum> dav1d: yeah but who wants to really code game-logic in lua? :(*
14:30 < dav1d> luajit is freakin' fast and not fat
14:30 < r04r> Grum: garry's mod!
14:31 < dav1d> Grum: really?
14:31 < r04r> also a ton of other games
14:31 < dav1d> Grum: basically everyone does that today
14:31 < Grum> the whole ai system in lua? oh man :p
14:31 < dav1d> GUIs written in lua, ai in lua, physics in lua
14:31 < dav1d> Grum: yes
14:31 < Grum> pathfinding in lua?
14:31 < Grum> huuuurl
14:31 < dav1d> yes
14:31 < Grum> i've coded that ...
14:31 < dav1d> Grum: luajit*
14:31 < Grum> same difference
14:31 < Grum> lua is ...... no fun to code in :/
14:31 < SinZ> Lua scares me when I think large scale
14:32 < SinZ> having to do messy stuff to do the convenient stuff in java/C#
14:32 < dav1d> Grum: well you think that
14:32 < Drainedsoul> the only languages I genuinely don't have fun coding in are ones that don't have static type systems
14:32 < dav1d> that's your personal opinion
14:32 < Grum> dav1d: there are no 'sane' datastructures in lua
14:32 < dav1d> lua gives you nothing but the ability to shape it as you want
14:32 < dav1d> Grum: ^
14:33 < Grum> yes, you really want to start building all those things from scratch using metatable crap?
14:33 < dav1d> Grum: there are existing soloutions
14:33 < Drainedsoul> I think this has all been blown out of proportion though
14:33 < Grum> dav1d: java ;)
14:33 < Drainedsoul> we should just take a moment to appreciate the fact that
14:33 < dav1d> Grum: honestly?
14:33 < Drainedsoul> we're not coding in PHP
14:33 < dav1d> java is terrible
14:34 < Drainedsoul> it is
14:34 < SinZ> I prefer CLI PHP to Lua
14:34 < dav1d> could be worse though
14:34 < Grum> every language is terrible
14:35 < Drainedsoul> I honestly think that not supporting unsigned integers is a special level of terrible
14:36 < SinZ> Java 8 will
14:36 < Drainedsoul> lol
14:37 < SinZ> meaning when Java10 gets released, programs might start to use it
14:38 < Drainedsoul_3> The fact that it took 8 versions to support unsigned integers is pretty damning 
14:40 < Grum> Drainedsoul: i dont really see the problem?
14:41 < Drainedsoul> ...how
14:41 < Grum> why would not having unsigned things be 'super bad' ?
14:41 < Drainedsoul> you pick data types that reflect the value being stored, tonnes of values -- especially in computer science -- don't have any reason being negative
14:41 < Drainedsoul> the idea of encoding a length as a value that can be negative is just so ridiculous, it's anti-programmer, it's a language design decision that inflict if (i>=0) on people where that check has
14:42 < Drainedsoul> no business being
14:43 < Grum> true but also not really *that* important?
14:44 < Drainedsoul> being able to easily store the length of something is pretty important.  Having to pass everything through if (i>=0) for no reason at all is pretty stupid.
14:44 < Drainedsoul> I mean what reason is there not to support unsigned integers?
14:44 < Grum> wait, why isn't the thing you are storing length in final?
14:45 < Drainedsoul> if you're generating your own lengths it's not as much of a problem, but you don't always generate your own lengths
14:45 < Grum> but then it falls under input sanification
14:45 < Grum> which is a whole different problem
14:45 < Drainedsoul> pass me in an array index, oh if (i<count && i>=0) {
14:46 < Grum> yeah omg that is so much more work than just checking if its out of bounds the other way O.o
14:46 < Drainedsoul> it's not about it being so much more or less work.  It's about forgetting to do one of them.  It's natural when faced with an index to think "well what if it's past the end?"
14:46 < Drainedsoul> the opposite check not so much
14:47 < Grum> which basically means you do not know the language you are coding in
14:47 < Grum> you could even argue the only reason you *are* forgetting it is because there are multiple ways of doing it and thus you *can* forget it
14:47 < Drainedsoul> so everyone who's ever forgotten a bounds check does not know the language they're coding in
14:47 < Drainedsoul> I thought languages were supposed to make the programmer's life easier, not prevent him from doing so
14:47 < Grum> well apparently (according to you) they were under the impression they didn't have to check the lowerbounds
14:48 < Drainedsoul> because under any sane convention (i.e. unsigned integers) you don't
14:48 < Grum> *IF* you used  an unsigned integer
14:48 < Drainedsoul> you i>=0 is a tautology with respect to unsigned integers, you can write it
14:48 < Drainedsoul> but any good compiler will get rid of it
14:48 < Drainedsoul> yeah, which you should, because you should choose data types that reflect the data you're trying to represent
14:49 < Drainedsoul> do you use bytes instead of booleans, you can equally encode 0 and 1 in both of them
14:49 < Drainedsoul> they've even the same size!
14:49 < Grum> i actually do
14:49 < Grum> but not by choice, the jvm does it for me :P
14:50 < Drainedsoul> which misses the point entirely
14:50 < Drainedsoul> you're supposed to map values onto data types, not the other way around
14:51 < Drainedsoul> a length or size doesn't have a sign.  It doesn't make sense to have an array of negative four elements
14:51 < Grum> oh man, never more can we put two nibbles in 1 byte :(
14:51 < Grum> it would if the language was sane :p
14:51 < Grum> -4 should be '4 from the end' ;D
14:52 < Drainedsoul> that's an abstraction and doesn't actually map onto the representation of the data at all
14:52 < Drainedsoul> and has nothing to do with the size
14:52 < Drainedsoul> the size is still four
14:52 < Grum> you are literally complaining about a single bit :(
14:52 < Grum> one that you hardly ever even use :P
14:53 < Drainedsoul> if the bit was just turned off it would be fine, it's the fact that signed integers can still represent negative numbers that's troubling
14:53 < Grum> would be horrible if signed integers couldn't do that
14:53 < Grum> i mean, what would be able to do it then? :D
14:54 < Drainedsoul> which is why the two are separate data types, not one data type with both roles glued onto it as in PHP and Java
14:54 < Grum> oh man, we totally need an 'only negative'-type then
14:55 < Drainedsoul> it's not really any different than having only positive types and treating them as negative, honestly
14:55 < Drainedsoul> I'm also hard-pressed to think of a problem that maps onto only negative numbers
14:56 < Grum> hmm so for a class that defines a number range you'd have to have two objects? to reflect the state and 'positive or not'
14:56 < Grum> so what about 0 and -0 ? :P
14:56 < Grum> you just created them ;)
14:56 < Drainedsoul> well
14:56 < Drainedsoul> use one's complement
14:56 < Drainedsoul> ; )
14:57 < Grum> oooh wait.... so why not for a single bit of range-loss have that all the time!? oh wait .. that is just what unsigned does
14:57 < Drainedsoul> but it's not about the range loss.  In most cases you don't care about the number of bits as long as it's over 11 or 12
14:58 < Drainedsoul> it's about the fact that merely using an unsigned type does data checking for you
14:58 < Drainedsoul> just like using a boolean types does
14:58 < Drainedsoul> you don't have to make sure a boolean is 0 or 1, it just is
14:59 < Grum> or null
14:59 < Grum> for a Boolean
14:59 < Grum> very useful by :P
14:59 < Grum> +the way
14:59 < Drainedsoul> tri-valued logic is useful
14:59 < Drainedsoul> but I'd just prefer handling that with a nullable wrapper
14:59 < Drainedsoul> we could even go so far as to call it boost::optional
15:07 < dav1d> ...
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15:07 < dav1d> bool = 1byte, pointer = 8/16byte
15:07 < dav1d> eh
15:07 < dav1d> 4/8
15:07 < Drainedsoul_2> what are you talking about
15:08 < unnicked668> bool can represend 256-valued logic
15:08 < Drainedsoul_2> you don't need a pointer to emulate nullability
15:08 < unnicked668> too bad nobody uses this advantage
15:08 < dav1d> Drainedsoul_2: I see I thought you were talking of pointers
15:08 < Drainedsoul_2> yeah because we have something called a byte when we need more than just true or false
15:08 < dav1d> well then you should use a byte
15:08 < dav1d> not a boolean
15:08 < unnicked668> dav1d: boolean IS a byte
15:09 < dav1d> unnicked668: no it is not
15:09 < Drainedsoul_2> well no, if you wanted a space-efficient nullable byte I'd write a wrappen ontop of a byte to abstract that different away from me
15:09 < unnicked668> unless you have bit-addressable memory and OS
15:09 < Drainedsoul_2> *wrapper
15:09 < unnicked668> dav1d: it ccupies 1 byte
15:09 < dav1d> it has the size of a byte, but it is not a byte
15:09 < unnicked668> occupies
15:09 < dav1d> 15:07:23         dav1d | bool = 1byte,
15:09 < unnicked668> dav1d: what is the difference between a byte that is called a byte and a byte that is called a boolean>?
15:09 < unnicked668> name?
15:09 < dav1d> unnicked668: a byte can be 3 a boolean can't
15:10 < Drainedsoul_2> a boolean has restrictions on its value, and the meanings of those values
15:10 < unnicked668> dav1d: it can easy
15:10 < unnicked668> just memcpy 3 to it
15:10 < dav1d> unnicked668: and it evaluates to true
15:10 < dav1d> unnicked668: that is just retarded, memcpy 3 into a bool
15:10 < dav1d> use a byte
15:11 < Drainedsoul_2> how would you memcpy an rvalue anyway, shouldn't you use memset?
15:11 < Drainedsoul_2> I mean if you're going to whip out fancy C library functions at least know the one for the job
15:11 < dav1d> lol
15:12 < unnicked668> dav1d: and a byte that is 3 will evaluate to true, too
15:13 < unnicked668> var byte=3; if (byte) {}
15:13 < dav1d> unnicked668: if(cast(bool)byte) doh
15:13 < dav1d> that's what a compiler does
15:13 < unnicked668> dav1d: no. just try it in js console
15:13 < dav1d> (or a smart compiler should do)
15:14 < Drainedsoul_2> what the fuck are we really going to talk about javascript here
15:14 < dav1d> unnicked668: you know that every integer in JS is basically a double?
15:14 < Drainedsoul_2> I thought we were going to talk about sane fucking languages
15:14 < dav1d> well it's pbunny what did you expect?
15:14 < Drainedsoul_2> I don't even know who pbunny is.  Before 4 days ago I hadn't been on here in like, 18 months or so
15:15 < jast> javascript is comparably sane... just doesn't have a decent standard library
15:15 < dav1d> lucky you
15:15 < dav1d> jast: meh
15:15 < dav1d> there are a few wtf
15:15 < jast> you're still talking about pbunny? yawn
15:15 < dav1d> *wtfs
15:15 < Drainedsoul_2> it's sane compared to what
15:15 < Drainedsoul_2> PHP?
15:15 < dav1d> (not speaking of the ones in the that "wat" presentation)
15:16 < Grum> jast: sounds like c;)
15:16 < dav1d> I like that one
15:16 < jast> C has more of a stdlib than javascript
15:16 < dav1d> if obj.length && typeof(obj.length) == 'number' && obj[obj.length-1] !== undefined
15:16 < dav1d> jast: ^
15:16 < dav1d> that is sane, right?
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15:16 < unnicked668> what is hard there dav1d?
15:17 < Grum> that is many levels of WTF :p
15:17 < dav1d> btw that is a check to see if obj is an array
15:17 < dav1d> typeof(123) --> 'number'
15:17 < dav1d> 123 instanceof Number --> false
15:17 < dav1d> <3
15:17 < dav1d> but I had enough of language discussions
15:17 < Grum> every language sucks, if you disagree you just don't know the language well enough :P
15:18 < jast> true
15:18 < Drainedsoul_2> for me it's about how obviously and insidiously it sucks
15:18 < dav1d> Grum: no
15:18 < dav1d> Grum: every language sucks in a certain task
15:18 < dav1d> but some suck in more or less
15:19 < Drainedsoul_2> PHP is the golden standard of suck
15:19 < dav1d> not if your task is to print "Hello World" ;)
15:19 < dav1d> doing that wrong is even in php hard
15:20 < Drainedsoul_2> it's really hard because I write PHP all day for work and then C-like languages for fun
15:20 < Drainedsoul_2> and I'm always really thrown off when the compiler complains about ===
15:20 < unnicked668> that's because PHP is superior to C
15:20 < unnicked668> C doesn't support many of its features
15:21 < Drainedsoul_2> yeah like the fucking broken comparison operators
15:21 < unnicked668> broken?
15:21 < Drainedsoul_2> 0=='foo' // true
15:21 < unnicked668> of course it is!
15:21 < dav1d> dx: I just added someone to my /ignore list for the first time
15:21 < unnicked668> Drainedsoul_2: because () != false
15:21 < dav1d> dx: I can recommend it
15:22 < Drainedsoul_2> I kind of hate ignoring people because then seeing other people talking to empty air annoys me, so I'm tempted to ignore them too
15:22 < Drainedsoul_2> it snowballs from there
15:22 < Drainedsoul_2> was in a guild in WoW once where I had everyone in the guild on ignore except 2 ppl
15:24 < unnicked668> its a way to solipsism Drainedsoul_2
15:24 < unnicked668> you start focusing on yourself as center of the world
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15:44 < TkTech> Grum: Just reading the backlog, but there are plenty of old Minecraft bugs caused by the ugliness of signed and unsigned in Java :)
15:44 < Grum> can you name one?
15:44 < TkTech> Grum: From Notch incorrectly scaling up to a larger type when reading from the wire
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15:49 < Grum> was that byte-signed-ness?
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15:51 < TkTech> Grum: (Sorry, about to do a standup). No. There used to be a lot more "unsigned" fields in the protocol that caused issues once they were high enough
15:52 < TkTech> Grum: Notch would read them in as a byte, and bump it up to a larger type to pretend it was unsigned
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15:53 < TkTech> DataInputStream.readByte() & 0xFF -> No longer a byte
15:57 < Grum> yeah
15:57 < Grum> i think i actually went over those
15:57 < Grum> and used the proper readUnsignedByte 
15:57 < Grum> which obviously existed :p
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16:00 < Grum> but yeah, its rather scary behavior with the 'sending of 0-255' using signed bytes :P
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16:10 < unnicked668> i always wondered why signed bytes are used in mc protocol even if value can't be negative
16:11 < unnicked668> and signed shorts
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16:37 < r04r> ^ Does anyone know what that is? I've wondered the same thing
16:37 < r04r> why that is*
16:42 < jast> as was previously explained, java has very limited support for unsigned types
16:44 < r04r> derp I read it the other way around, my bad
16:44 < r04r> I meant why it uses unsigned values on the wire, but signed values in the application
16:46 <+SirCmpwn> why java does that?
16:46 <+SirCmpwn> or why minecraft uses signed numbers at all?
16:46 <+SirCmpwn> unsigned*
16:48 < r04r> The latter, why minecraft uses unsigned at all
16:48 < r04r> To cram more values in less memory?
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16:51 < TobiX> Only to save single bytes on-wire... It doesn't help memory use...
16:51 <+SirCmpwn> maybe notch wanted to pretend he wasn't using a shitty language
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16:53 < r04r> :')
16:54 < r04r> okay
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09:42 < Drainedsoul> So with JSON chat, will the literal section sign be representable in chat?
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10:40 <+md_5> Drainedsoul probably, but why are you so concerned about getting this section sign in chat
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10:55 < Drainedsoul> it's an edge case.  I want to know when I no longer have to handle it.
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14:49 < ffmdr> md_5: ping me back, I guess you are sleeping now
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15:12 < r04r> w/ 6
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18:32 <+SirCmpwn> <unnicked668> [07:20:41] that's because PHP is superior to C
18:32 <+SirCmpwn> reading that is exactly how I wanted to start my morning
18:34 < barneygale> oh god.
18:35 < mbaxter> It just needs better context
18:36 < mbaxter> PHP is superior to C in quickly writing XSS vulnerable websites, surely.
18:40 < unnicked289> mbaxter: and C is superior in slowly writing XSS vulnerable websites?
18:41 < mbaxter> \o/
18:41 <+sadimusi> unnicked289: please don't try to circumvent your ban
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18:45 < unnicked289> sadimusi ?
18:45 < unnicked289> "my ban"?
18:45 < unnicked289> o.O
18:46 <+pdelvo> why does the fun in here happen when Im not here? Thats unfair :(
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20:17 < barneygale> I have a favour to ask from anyone who logs this channel (I only recently enabled it). Gr-um talked about (removal of) colour codes a few days back. Could someone gisthub the whole convo?
20:18 <+SirCmpwn> I'll give you my past week of logs and you can sort out the rest
20:20 <+SirCmpwn> jesus christ I have a lot of logs
20:21 < barneygale> thanks SirCmpwn 
20:21 <+SirCmpwn> http://ge.tt/api/1/files/9GmImyj/0/blob?download
20:21 <+SirCmpwn> barneygale: 
20:21 <+SirCmpwn> yw
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20:23 < barneygale> SirCmpwn: annoyingly the conversation isn't amongst those - must have been before. Things have been really hectic lately so I can't give you a good estimate of when
20:33 <+ammar2> barneygale: I don't have the entire conversation, or the time to go digging for it. I do have the key bit though
20:33 < barneygale> thanks ammar2, that would be very useful!
20:34 <+ammar2> barneygale: http://pastie.org/pastes/8067301/text?key=yvnltcmsncjn1ddjnsz7rw
20:34 < barneygale> thanks!
20:36 < barneygale> Time to go digging through the snapshot code I guess.
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22:14 <+SirCmpwn> barneygale: sorry, left for lunch
22:14 <+SirCmpwn> looks like ammar2 has you covered, though
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23:08 < jkbbwr> Anyone here?
23:11  * clonejo coughs quietly.
23:12 < jkbbwr> Win!
23:12 < jkbbwr> So how can I detect the end of a string
23:12  * umby24 yawns
23:12 < jkbbwr> because on http://mc.kev009.com/Protocol, I see that 0x02 is 10 bytes
23:12 <+clonejo> jkbbwr: Strings are prefixed by a short containing the length.
23:13 < jkbbwr> OHOH
23:13 < jkbbwr> Fantastic
23:13 < umby24> http://mc.kev009.com/Data_Types
23:13 <+clonejo> jkbbwr: http://www.wiki.vg/Data_Types
23:14 <+clonejo> mc.kev009.com should redirect to wiki.vg imo
23:14 < umby24> agreed actually.
23:14 < umby24> surprized it still works
23:16 <+clonejo> umby24: it's what shows up on Google
23:16 < umby24> ah. didn't know
23:17 <+clonejo> "minecraft protocol": 1. mc.kev009.com/Protocol, 4. wiki.vg
23:28 < shoghicp> yeah :(
23:28 < shoghicp> but I search everything with the site:wiki.vg at the end ;)
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23:37 < jkbbwr> why does mc send 00 after every letter in the st... ah wait
23:37 < jkbbwr> doing it wrong
23:38 < barneygale> jkbbwr: UCS-2 string
23:39 < jkbbwr> Yea I realised that while typing
23:40 < jkbbwr> Im derping up with how to actually read utf8 outa the pipe but thats not your problem
23:41 < barneygale> in python you'd read the whole thing into a byte string, then .decode('utf16-be') or such
23:46 < jkbbwr> barneygale: I was reading them off the socket, bytes at a time
23:46 < jkbbwr> for example I know the strlen is 7, 
23:47 < barneygale> why not recv(7).decode('utf-16be')?
23:47 < barneygale> well
23:47 < barneygale> It would be 14 ;)
23:51 < jkbbwr> strlen*2 ;)
23:52 < jkbbwr> ff aborting
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--- Day changed sam. juin 22 2013
00:00 <+md_5> ffmdr hi...
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00:12 < ffmdr> ffmdr: hey
00:12 < ffmdr> ffmdr: remember your EntityMap D:
00:13 < ffmdr> md_5*
00:13 < ffmdr> s/ffmdr/md_5
00:13 < ffmdr> anyway I think it can be simplified a lot because it looks like there is only one player id in each packet
00:15 < ffmdr> i.e. https://github.com/ElasticPortalSuite/BungeeCord/blob/master/proxy/src/main/java/net/md_5/bungee/EntityMap.java#L37
00:15 < ffmdr> the first one always entity id and second player id
00:15 < ffmdr> the first one is*
00:16 < ffmdr> in 0x16
00:19 < ffmdr> md_5: ping?
00:33 <+md_5> ffmdr yeah there is an open bug for that, really hesitant about touching it though
00:33 <+md_5> shit tends to blow when that map is wrong
00:33 <+md_5> Ive been using that map for 1.5 years
00:35 < ffmdr> ;P
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00:59 < ffmdr> md_5: whats wrongy with latest netty again
00:59 < ffmdr> wrong*
00:59 <+md_5> random corruption of written bytes on certain platforms
01:00 < ffmdr> "certain platforms"
01:02 < ffmdr> how about kinda unit testing that ._.
01:07 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2041 2 files : Simplifying FloatingIslandMapGenParameters, and improving the way parameters scale with map size.
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01:38 < Drainedsoul> random corruption "on certain platforms" ooh
01:38 < Drainedsoul> this sounds like undefined behaviour to me
01:44 <+SirCmpwn> I used to have encryption problems that were similar
01:45 <+SirCmpwn> after a connection was in use for a seemingly random amount of time, the crypto would just start outputting the same byte of cyphertext for every byte of plaintext. So the server would eventually just write a shitload of 0x68 or something
01:50 < ffmdr> md_5: while updating to CR5 you rewritten CipherCodec, admit it 
01:52 <+md_5> ffmdr ? and?
01:52 <+md_5> this bug exists in Cr2+
01:52 <+md_5> when I get the time Ill go through every commit in Cr1->Cr2 and find the culprit
01:53 <+md_5> observe the downgrade process: https://github.com/ElasticPortalSuite/BungeeCord/commit/ce8f1b44b6d3dda9cc4e898c92186aa25c169f20
01:53 <+md_5> *nothing* is changed but the netty version
01:54 <+md_5> anyway gtg'
01:55 < ffmdr> yeah that's a magical unvisible bug in netty cr2+
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02:56 < ffmdr> md_5: does it corrupt player=>bungee or bungee=>bukkit ??
02:57 < ffmdr> because only one is encrypted
02:57 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2042 18 files : Converted IMapGeneratorParameters and IMapGeneratorState interfaces into abstract classes, to reduce a lot of boilerplate code.
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03:35 < ffmdr> md_5: wait where was that bug report about this?
03:40 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2043 4 files : Removed more boilerplate code from FlatMapGen and VanillaMapGen. Implemented parameter saving and loading in FloatingIslandMapGen.
03:41 < ffmdr> md_5: also is async http client still using netty 3? I think netty 4 module is commented out
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03:45 < ffmdr> md_5: you are shipping two netty versions xD
03:55 < ffmdr> md_5: https://github.com/timboudreau/netty-http-client \o/
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05:04 < Eloston> Do any of you guys know any custom or 3rd party Minecraft 1.6 launchers?
05:05 < Eloston> Not that I need to use it, I just want to use them as inspiration for a launcher I'm writing
05:36 < SinZ> Eloston: MultiMC, FTB Launcher, Technic Platform
05:36 < SinZ> they are the 3 biggest 3rd party launchers, but none for 1.6 yet
05:36 < SinZ> I have one in progress though
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05:51 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2044 3 files : Fixed a crash in FlatMapGenParameters. Tweaked FloatingIslandMapGen.
06:08 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2045 14 files : Converted IMapGenerator into an abstract class, saving lots of boilerplate code once more.
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06:35 < Eloston> Hm if I get my launcher done fast enough I might be one of the first for 1.6...
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06:43 < ffmdr> SinZ: *ekhm* MagicLauncher *ekhm*
06:44 <+SirCmpwn> the 1.6 launcher stuff is new and different
06:44 <+SirCmpwn> I don't think ML supports it yet
06:45 < Eloston> Hm I checked the thread on Minecraft Forum and it says for 1.1.5 that it is "updated to support newer snapshots"
06:45 < Eloston> so possibly yes?
06:46 < ffmdr> SirCmpwn: it does
06:46 < ffmdr> I tried MultiMC but it sucks so much...
06:48 < Eloston> dang Magic Launcher has some pretty fancy mod features
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08:32 < apiocera> 
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10:14 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2046 5 files : Added code to MapGeneratorParameters to automate loading/saving XML parameters and cloning (thanks to Zaneo for the idea).
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10:36 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2047 2 files : Fixed MapGeneratorParameters.LoadProperties not converting types correctly.
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13:56 < dav1d> clonejo: https://code.google.com/p/chromiumembedded/ is getting close to offscreen-rendering support in linux
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14:33 < dx> dav1d: what's the difference between "embedding chromium" and "using webkit bindings"?
14:34 < dav1d> dx: chromium is faster and better sandboxed
14:34 < dav1d> it launches its own rendering process
14:35 < dav1d> so you inject user events, chromium does everything away from the main thread, you only need to query the offsreen image and render it
14:36 < dx> i've never understood why those sandboxes are so important, other than... critical security bugs, that i've heard that have bypassed the chrome sandbox in the past
14:38 < dx> i guess you could send the sandbox process to a different user id in a chroot for extra paranoia, but who does that?
14:41 < dav1d> dx: if the sandbox crashes, e.g. flash crashed, you can react to it instead of the whole browser crashing. Never experienced that in firefox?
14:41 < dav1d> Flash crashed and firefox, too
14:41 < dav1d> dx: if you bypass it, google pays you a lot of $
14:41 < dx> dav1d: haven't had since since firefox 3.6, and that's flash, not the firefox rendering engine itself
14:42 < dx> (flash itself got sandboxed)
14:42 < dav1d> dx: right, but firefox crashes with it
14:42 < dav1d> dx: in chromium only the tab containing it crashes
14:44 < dx> dav1d: i guess i see your point, but in practice flash is the only thing that needs sandboxing
14:44 < dav1d> dx: well everything can basically crash, just flash does it really often compared to the V8 ;) (plugins in general)
14:44 < dx> yep
14:45 < dx> and sometimes the code that crashes is outside the sandbox...
14:45 < dx> so yeah.
14:45 < dav1d> well that's always a problem
14:45 < dav1d> also the chromium sandbox provides a really good security barrier
14:46 < dx> hm? elaborate?
14:48 < dav1d> never heared of google paying thousands of $ for people breaking their sandbox?
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14:48 < dav1d> dx: http://arstechnica.com/security/2012/08/google-pledges-million-in-hacking-prizes/
14:49 < dx> er...
14:49 < dx> so basically the same critical security bugs thing
14:49 < dx> okay
14:50 < dav1d> yeah
14:50 < dx> tbh i'm not sure what else i was expecting
14:50 < dav1d> there was a neat hack once, using GPU memory and webgl
14:50 < dav1d> can't remember the details though
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19:07 <+pdelvo> its annoying that 90% of the "Changes" entries on the wiki are the creation of a spam account
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19:12 <+SirCmpwn> agreed
19:12 <+SirCmpwn> wiki should have recapcha for account creation
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19:21 < Thinkofdeath> pdelvo: http://wiki.vg/wiki/index.php?namespace=2&invert=1&title=Special%3ARecentChanges 
19:21 < Thinkofdeath> Hides the account creation
19:22 <+pdelvo> does not change the fact that the wiki is full of spam accounts. I would guess that less then 5% of the accounts are human
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19:38 < dav1d> nice
19:38 < dav1d> http://wiki.vg/User:DarleneWi
19:38 < dav1d> sexcams
19:39 <+pdelvo> why hasnt anoone noticed that until now? :o
19:40 < dav1d> I found it while googling for sexcams
19:40 < dav1d> :P
19:41 <+pdelvo> you liar. then I would have found that too
19:41 < dav1d> hehe
19:41 <+pdelvo> :D
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19:52 <+SirCmpwn> I've started working on a github pages/jekyll powered wiki alternative
19:54 <+SirCmpwn> go comment with your support of this pull request, please: https://github.com/mojombo/jekyll/pull/585
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21:07 < dav1d> did anyone ever fill a whole chunk 0-256 with leaves?
21:08 < dav1d> or even better stairs
21:08 < dav1d> according to my calculations this would take around ~100-200mb vram
21:08 < dav1d> now think of 5 of these chunks
21:08 < dav1d> or 441 (renderdistance = 10)
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21:10 < dav1d> worst case for brala would be around 160mb vram and I assume brala uses less bytes per vertex
21:11 < dav1d> e.g. minecraft can't compact texture coordinates to shorts, it sends them as float
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21:19 <+SirCmpwn> minecraft now supports custom flatland
21:19 <+SirCmpwn> make one that generates 0-255 full of leaves and find out
21:20 < dav1d> ha great!
21:20 < dav1d> I didn't want to fire up mcedit
21:21 < dav1d> I had problems getting it to run last time
21:27 <+SirCmpwn> http://mctechwiki.org/
21:27 <+SirCmpwn> WIP
21:27 <+SirCmpwn> code is here https://github.com/mctechwiki/mctechwiki.github.io
21:28 <+SirCmpwn> example packet: https://raw.github.com/mctechwiki/mctechwiki.github.io/master/modern/packets/00.md
21:28 < dav1d> haha
21:28 < dav1d> Mem:          7989       7867        121          0         54       1248
21:28 <+SirCmpwn> example packet #2: https://github.com/mctechwiki/mctechwiki.github.io/raw/master/modern/packets/01.md
21:28 < dav1d> 1008MB /  1023MB
21:28 < dav1d> ^ vram
21:28 <+SirCmpwn> that's a lot of memory
21:28 < dav1d> performing better than expected
21:29 < dav1d> lol
21:29 < dav1d> F3 memory useage is so wrong
21:29 <+SirCmpwn> F3 probably only reports what Minecraft is using
21:29 < dav1d> used ~6gb the upper right corner told me it was about 200mb
21:29 <+SirCmpwn> you're looking at Minecraft+Java
21:29 < dav1d> mh wait
21:29 < dav1d> this makes no sense
21:29 < dav1d> storing these in blocks in memory needs ~200mb
21:30 < dav1d> was the graphics card swapping to ram
21:31 <+SirCmpwn> if that PR on jekyll gets accepted, this repository will be a really nice way to document minecraft
21:32 < dav1d> this bootstrap looks so ugly for wikis
21:33 <+SirCmpwn> it's mostly just to get it going faster
21:33 <+SirCmpwn> I may redesign it later
21:34 < dav1d> would be funny if the gpu swapped 6gb of data into the ram
21:34 < dav1d> but if it really did, awesome job nvidia
21:37 <+AndrewPH> lmao
21:37 <+AndrewPH> hope it did
21:38 < dav1d> yes
21:38 < dav1d> seems like it is possible
21:38 < dav1d> vram swaps to ram which then would swap to swapfile/swap-partition
21:41 < dav1d> 812 million vertices
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22:07 <+SirCmpwn> so advantages of using a github-driven documentation site: can keep local copies of the docs, we can add a git tag for major releases and you can browse the wiki as it appeared for 1.5.2 or whatever, machine-readable packet specifications, markdown
22:07 <+SirCmpwn> once I get it to be a little more dynamic, I'd appreciate some help fleshing it out
22:08 <+SirCmpwn> no more editing those horrible mediawiki tables
22:11 < clonejo1> SirCmpwn: pdelvo started something a while ago
22:11 < clonejo1> http://wiki.pdelvo.de/Protocol
22:12 < ffmdr> clonejo1: nice
22:12 < ffmdr> twitter bootstrap <3
22:12 < dav1d> lol
22:12 < dav1d> I abstracted so much away, I can't find the root of these abstractions
22:12 <+SirCmpwn> not bad
22:12 <+SirCmpwn> I'm hoping to do better than a straight-up copy of wiki.vg
22:16 < ffmdr> I wonder what is max hit count per second, I mean with a sword?
22:18 < ffmdr> is it maybe 8?
22:18 <+SirCmpwn> it would be nice if the client had a debug feature to display entity IDs above entities
22:20 < ffmdr> SirCmpwn: you can add it to server very easily with tags, not sure if they are in 1.5 or snapshot only
22:20 <+SirCmpwn> yeah, it can be done on the server, I suppose
22:20 < ffmdr> http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Name_Tag 
22:20 <+SirCmpwn> I should add that as an SMProxy feature, to inject tags
22:20 < Yoshi2> in one of the versions minecraft did display entity IDs above entities, but it was removed for some reason
22:22 < dav1d> Yoshi2: could be used to xray
22:22 < dav1d> the entity IDs showed through walls
22:22 <+SirCmpwn> what use is that?
22:22 <+SirCmpwn> you can find out where some skeletons are
22:22 <+SirCmpwn> and get more bones
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22:25 < ffmdr> talking about xray, hotkey to reload chunks still works like a wallhack haha
22:28 < ffmdr> can anyone tell me what is max hits per second with a sword?
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22:34 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: also players had them above their heads iirc
22:35 < ffmdr> no one knows what is hit per second rate?
22:38 < ffmdr> :/
22:40 < ffmdr> this.rightClickDelayTimer = 4;
22:41 < ffmdr> hmm
22:42 < ffmdr> okay got the math behind it
22:42 < ffmdr> every hit adds 10 to leftClickCounter
22:42 < ffmdr> hitting entity won't work if leftClickCounter is > 0
22:42 < ffmdr> every tick decreases leftClickCounter by 1
22:44 < dav1d> :D
22:44 < dav1d> http://i.imgur.com/LgentzK.jpg
22:44 < dav1d> I think something went wrong ^
22:45 < ffmdr> but this would mean that player can make 2 hits per second D:
22:47 < ffmdr> any help decoding this...?
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23:04 < ffmdr> is client tick per second also 20 or I am missing something?
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23:08 < ffmdr> hmm it looks like leftClickCounter is only used if clicking in the air...
23:09 < ffmdr> is there really no limit on hits per second?
23:09 < dav1d> it's  10 ticks
23:09 < dav1d> there are different types of ticks
23:09 < dav1d> I guess it's the 10ticks per second type of tick
23:09 < dav1d> so 1 hit per tick, 10 hits per second
23:10 < ffmdr> dav1d: I see counter is only used while hitting in the air...hmmm
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23:10 < InfinitelyOscill> Hiya guys..
23:10 < InfinitelyOscill> .*
23:11 < dav1d> hi
23:11 < ffmdr> dav1d: http://pastebin.com/qaKn5x8L
23:12 < dav1d> ffmdr: this is client side...
23:12 < InfinitelyOscill> I'm curious.. is there any minimum packet length a minecraft packet should have?
23:12 < ffmdr> dav1d: indeed
23:12 < ffmdr> dav1d: thats what I am looking at
23:12 < dav1d> why would you look at clientside code?
23:12 < ffmdr> and counter is decreased in clients runTick
23:12 < ffmdr> dav1d: I am trying to check how many hits client can make per second
23:12 < dav1d> if the hits are limited then it's done on serverside
23:13 < dav1d> everything else would be dumb
23:13 < umby24_> InfinitelyOscill, each packet has it's own unique length. Some (most) packets vary in length
23:13 < ffmdr> ._.
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23:13 < InfinitelyOscill> I know that, but for example, what should the buffer size be before reading the packet, 4 or 8, etc.
23:14 < dav1d> InfinitelyOscill: don't use a buffer, read from the socket what you need
23:14 < dav1d> the exact amount of bytes
23:14 < umby24> field by field
23:14 < InfinitelyOscill> if (buffer.readableBytes() < 6)                 return null;
23:14 < dav1d> everything else just makes it harderr and a socket is a good buffer already
23:14 < InfinitelyOscill> Like that.. in netty.
23:14 < dav1d> a buffer you don't have to care about, the OS does
23:15 < InfinitelyOscill> Oh.
23:15 < dav1d> ok bbl
23:15 < InfinitelyOscill> Thanks, I'll be idle.
23:16 < dav1d> yeah the os buffers networking stuff internally, probably better than you ever can
23:16 < dav1d> now I am really away^^
23:20 < ffmdr> dav1d: http://pastebin.com/rPW15uYu
23:20 < ffmdr> hmm
23:21 < ffmdr> I don't see anything like lastHitMiliseconds or so
23:24 < ffmdr> so is pvp really about who can click mouse buttons faster :P?
23:43 < ffmdr> it looks like limit is 20 hits per second
23:53 < InfinitelyOscill> In the protocol, how are packets divided, specifically strings?
23:54 < InfinitelyOscill> I've observed a peculiar 3 whitespace character.
23:59 < Yoshi2> InfinitelyOscill: you may want to look at http://wiki.vg/Data_Types and http://wiki.vg/Protocol if you haven't already
23:59 < Yoshi2> strings are encoded in big endian UCS-2 and prefixed with a short, which describes the string's length in characters
23:59 < InfinitelyOscill> Just when you mentioned Data Types
23:59 < InfinitelyOscill> I was on that page
--- Day changed dim. juin 23 2013
00:00 < InfinitelyOscill> Thanks, that helped me a lot!
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02:08 < ffmdr> md_5: you know you are shipping two netty versions in bugee, right? :D
02:09 <+md_5> ffmdr yes.. its intentional
02:09 < ffmdr> https://github.com/timboudreau/netty-http-client => alternative
02:09 < ffmdr> your jar is so fat D:
02:09 <+md_5> its not in maven central for 1
02:09 <+md_5> ffmdr the jar is fat because I include libraries for plugins to use
02:10 <+md_5> its smaller than if every plugin included every library it needed
02:10 < ffmdr> your jar is as fat as craftbukkit
02:10 <+md_5> and?
02:10 <+md_5> I really dont get your point
02:11 < ffmdr> the point is that it is too fat 
02:11 <+md_5> ...................................
02:11 < ffmdr> ...
02:11 <+md_5> I could squash it down to 4mb
02:11 <+md_5> but then plugins that need libraries
02:11 <+md_5> need to include those liobraries
02:11 <+md_5> end result is 4mb of bungee and 40mb of plufins
02:11 <+md_5> as opposed to 12mb of bungee and 1mb of plugins
02:12 <+md_5> also you have clearly never done enterprise java development
02:12 <+md_5> some web apps are over 100mb of libraries and hooks
02:13 <+md_5> is download 12mb an issue to you?
02:13 <+md_5> *downloding
02:13 <+md_5> blargh whatever can't type
02:14 < ffmdr> it is downloading nearly 30 seconds on my shitty internet
02:14 <+md_5> 30 seconds....
02:14 <+md_5> that is nothing at all
02:15 < ffmdr> irony mode off
02:15 <+md_5> and you have to do this what? once a week. Bungee should be on a server with good internet
02:15 < ffmdr> ok, whatever
02:17 < ffmdr> md_5: oh and about that magical netty bug any progress on finding which commit "caused" it?
02:17 <+md_5> yeah pretty sure they made pipeline operations non-atomic
02:18 <+md_5> waiting for confirmation of if its a bug or what
02:18 <+md_5> https://github.com/netty/netty/issues/1480
02:18 < ffmdr> md_5: are you swapping decoders?
02:18 <+md_5> I have a workaround in mind, but tbh it makes sense for pipeline operations to be atomic
02:18 < ffmdr> ah handlers, right
02:18 <+md_5> which is why I point the finger at https://github.com/netty/netty/commit/ca5554dfe7707d2cce712d1165a648129e0a9c84
02:18 <+md_5> specifically the changes to DefaultChannelPipeline
02:19 < ffmdr> md_5: removing synchronized?
02:21 <+md_5> well the fact that the handlers are not added on the event loop could lead to thread caching issues as iirc none of the variables are marked volatile, even if they were marked volatile they would still be subject to races
02:21 <+md_5> whereas if it was added on the eventloop you are guaranteed of all the changes being visible, as well as in order execution
02:22 <+md_5> thing is, I should be adding and writing in the same eventloop anyway :|
02:22 < ffmdr> I guess pipeline operations should be picked up by io threads and not block here?
02:23 <+md_5> yah but I should be doing them in the io thread anyway :|      Anyway convinced its that commit
02:23 < ffmdr> md_5: so users doesn't get connection errors randomly but when handlers are switched?
02:24 <+md_5> added, but yeah
02:24 <+md_5> I've refined it down to there
02:24 <+md_5> I have a multitude of ways to fix it, but I;d rather hear back from one of the devs first
02:25 < ffmdr> how about a workaround like; you have a handler which wraps other handler and it uses own switcher with mutex :P?
02:25 <+md_5> lolno
02:25 < ffmdr> lol
02:28 < ffmdr> well in theory what could go wrong there, nothing would be swapped on netty side
02:28 < ffmdr> just a theoretical question D:
02:28 <+md_5> yup I reckon Ive cracked it
02:28 <+md_5> since the cipher isnt actually being added in the event loop
02:29 < ffmdr> so the first theory was wrong?
02:30 <+md_5> https://github.com/netty/netty/issues/1480#issuecomment-19867107
02:30 <+md_5> 100% sure thats the issue
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02:35 < ffmdr> md_5: ah so that encryption response got encrypted before sending?
02:35 <+md_5> yup
02:35 <+md_5> because the above netty commit added a race causing pipeline manipulation and writes to not maintain order
02:35 < ffmdr> makes sense now
02:37  * md_5 does a quick test run
02:41 <+md_5> https://github.com/ElasticPortalSuite/BungeeCord/commit/9a173968f1646cbac8474e7337de21d353abce32
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02:46 < ffmdr> md_5: btw a simplier workaround would be to add encrypter after receiving next packet
02:47 < ffmdr> just saying
02:47 <+md_5> you dont know what the next packet will be
02:47 <+md_5> this is a better option, .write() does the same thing internally anyway
02:47 < ffmdr> yeah I am just saying, I don't think you are going to send anything before bukkit sends 0x01 or whatever
02:48 < ffmdr> you are not*
02:48 < ffmdr> no 
02:48 < ffmdr> uhh
02:48 < ffmdr> you are*
02:48 < ffmdr> bad correction
02:49 < ffmdr> wait ignore above it wasn't even connecting to bukkit
02:54 < ffmdr> btw just noticed one of the most popular hacked clients makes a nice IRC botnet of 800 people online
02:54 < ffmdr> hacked clients are shit
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03:51 < ffmdr> md_5: are you using intellij?
04:04 < ffmdr> md_5: are you afk D: ?
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04:07 <+md_5> ffmdr I use netbeans
04:09 <+SirCmpwn> ffmdr: IRC etiquette dictates that you simply wait patiently when someone takes time to respond, instead of commenting on their status and further burdening them with notifications when they eventually do return
04:12 < dx> SirCmpwn: that reply was so verbose that i'd only write it if it was part of a command alias
04:13 < dx> i really i should add a bunch of verbose aliases for variations of "be patient"
04:13 < dx> s/i should/should/
04:14 < ffmdr> SirCmpwn: uhm sorry ._.
04:15 < dx> yeah, that's the thing, if you write a verbose reply like that, people think that you were annoyed by it
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04:16 < dx> (which is exactly what i want to achieve, without actually feeling annoyed or bothering to write it at all)
04:16 < ffmdr> md_5: I was going to ask about intellij fonts since you use linux but ok then
04:16 < dx> ffmdr: fonts? wat
04:17 <+SirCmpwn> I was indeed annoyed by it, dx
04:17 < ffmdr> dx: spoiler: java fonts look like shit on linux
04:17 < dx> ffmdr: oh, the font rendering, not the font itself
04:18 <+SirCmpwn> my observation of ffmdr in the time he's spent here has led me to believe that he is not very good at picking up the subtleties of IRC culture
04:18 <+md_5> ffmdr I just use.... default
04:18 < dx> SirCmpwn: protip: chill out, don't worry so much about stuff like this.
04:18 <+SirCmpwn> thank you for your input
04:19 < ffmdr> md_5: okey. for me all java linux fonts look...bad
04:19 < ffmdr> SirCmpwn: ...
04:20 < dx> ffmdr: *all* fonts in java?
04:20 < dx> ffmdr: in every java app ever?
04:20 < ffmdr> dx: font rendering in GUI
04:20 <+md_5> ffmdr do you have wine?
04:20 < ffmdr> md_5 yes
04:20 < dx> wine wot
04:21 <+md_5> yeah wine screws fonts when using java 7
04:21 < ffmdr> lol
04:21 < dx> how
04:21 < dx> ._.
04:21 <+SirCmpwn> >java
04:21 <+SirCmpwn> there's your answer
04:21 < dx> unless you run java through wine, which is WHY
04:21 <+md_5> no, it installs a package
04:21 <+md_5> which breaks fonts
04:22 < dx> sounds like a distro issue
04:22 < dx> since i'm fine here
04:22 < dx> but interesting
04:22 <+md_5> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openjdk-7/+bug/937200
04:22 <+md_5> ffmdr sudo apt-get remove fonts-unfonts-core
04:22 <+md_5> is thequick and dirty way
04:22 < ffmdr> md_5: arch linux here
04:23 < dx> lol "fat fonts"
04:23 < dx> arch linux here too
04:23 <+SirCmpwn> I tried once
04:23 < dx> never had such issue
04:23 < ffmdr> maybe I'm oversensitive about fonts
04:23 <+SirCmpwn> I decided that my evening was better spent doing something else
04:23 <+md_5> dx only affects java 7
04:24 < dx> jre7-openjdk 7.u21_2.3.9-3
04:24 < dx> ffmdr: oh i use freetype2-infinality btw, never liked the default freetype font rendering
04:25 < ffmdr> dx: I had plans to install it too
04:25 < dx> ffmdr: do eet
04:25 < ffmdr> also I was trying to compile openjdk with fontfix for two hours
04:26 < ffmdr> with no diffrence
04:26 < ffmdr> and fontconfig isn't even in strace
04:26 < ffmdr> weird
04:26 < dx> huh
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04:26 < ffmdr> https://gist.github.com/trustin/2893461
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04:28 < dx> also i don't think you should expect it to appear on strace
04:28 < dx> since... it traces system calls
04:28 < ffmdr> dx: it also shows loaded libs
04:28 < ffmdr> actually freetype not fontconfig
04:29 < ffmdr> http://www.infinality.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=275
04:29 < dx> hm, right, open() is a system call lol
04:29 < ffmdr> dx: infinality with openjdk fontfix looks pretty awesome
04:30 < dx> ffmdr: did you get it working, or is it just because of that screenshot?
04:30 < dx> (because that's how it has always looked for me)
04:30 < ffmdr> um
04:30 < ffmdr> it looks more like http://i.imgur.com/wzVVm.png
04:30 < ffmdr> which is screenshot from that topic before fontfixes 
04:31 < dx> that doesn't look too bad
04:32 < ffmdr> dx: I have a weird feeling that file/edit/view menu is using diffrent font than other gui(not talking about code editor)
04:32 < ffmdr> dx: http://screencloud.net/img/screenshots/fc6ae9f206112053f778de8a24b9e861.png
04:33 < dx> looks like i found someone who is more picky about fonts than me
04:33 < ffmdr> heh
04:33 < ffmdr> because when I look at IntelliJ Idea on OSX and its fonts...
04:34 < ffmdr> ouch
04:34 < dx> but yeah if you get it to work with infinality it will look awesomer
04:34 < ffmdr> dx: btw what distro are you using?
04:34 < dx> 23:18 < dx> arch linux here too
04:35 < ffmdr> oh, missed that
04:35 < dx> also /etc/profile.d/infinality-settings.sh has a few presets, including one that simulates the OSX rendering if you're into that
04:35 < ffmdr> I don't think OSX rendering would look good in KDE
04:36 < ffmdr> dx: are you using repo from https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Font_Configuration#Infinality:_the_easy_way ?
04:36 < dx> it's just a matter of experimenting
04:36 < dx> nah, AUR'd it, i don't mind compiling
04:37 < ffmdr> updating AUR software is a pain in the ass
04:37 < dx> there are aur helpers that make it easier
04:38 < ffmdr> you mean yaourt?
04:38 < dx> that's one of them
04:39 < dx> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Aur_helpers
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04:40 < dx> this one looks nice https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Pacaur
04:41 < dx> ffmdr: nothing wrong with using repos, though
04:41 < ffmdr> Multiple runtime settings that come with freetype2-infinality, including, among other things, a selection of Windows, Apple and Ubuntu schemes were replaced by a single new one, as needed by fontconfig-infinality-ultimate.
04:42 < dx> whoops.
04:43 < ffmdr> dx: not sure if I really need these presetes
04:43 < ffmdr> presets*
04:43 < dx> ffmdr: you need to be able to tweak though
04:44 < ffmdr> dx: ok, installing normal one
04:44 < ffmdr> it is going to delete freetype2 before installing...saving all works first :P
04:44 < ffmdr> work*
04:44 < dx> i never bother doing that
04:44 < dx> it just works™, the worst you can see is some random font corruption
04:45 < ffmdr> every time I open or close minecraft it flashes my screen and corrupts all other opengl stuff
04:45 < ffmdr> I even had to delete xrandr binary because it was changing my screen resolution to 50hz every time...
04:46 < dx> fun
04:46 < ffmdr> it seems like new lwjgl is even more buggy
04:46 < ffmdr> than old shipped with minecraft was
04:49 < ffmdr> dx: fonts look so much better now
04:50 < dx> \o/
04:50 < ffmdr> without hinting
04:50 < dx> without?
04:50 < dx> hinting has always confused me
04:50 < ffmdr> I mean my hinting is off
04:50 < ffmdr> dx: or maybe placebo effect
04:50 < dx> heh
04:52 < ffmdr> dx: it was placebo effect. I guess I need to restart KDE at least
04:52 < dx> lol
04:52 < dx> you need to restart at least one app
04:52 < dx> and, well, for infinality source the env vars
04:52 < ffmdr> ok I started one new app and fonts look like shit :D
04:53 < dx> :D
04:53 < ffmdr> ouch
04:54 < ffmdr> eeh
04:54 < ffmdr> brb restarting
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05:00 < ffmdr> dx: gtk fonts look cool, qt fonts feels like a weird kind of hinting now
05:00 < dx> ffmdr: odd
05:02 < ffmdr> dx: http://screencloud.net/img/screenshots/37789042d4b7229afce7252771bf3dc8.png
05:03 < dx> ffmdr: no idea what's wrong with this :D
05:03 < ffmdr> dx: are you using kde?
05:03 < dx> ffmdr: nope
05:04 < dx> not sure what i'm using but it's mostly gtk
05:04 < ffmdr> hmm I have force fonts dpi to 96 because otherwise they are really small
05:05 < ffmdr> dx: are you using ubuntu fonts?
05:05 < dx> ffmdr: nope. mostly dejavu
05:06 < ffmdr> I'll try Oxygen font
05:10 < ffmdr> dx: archlinux wiki just died
05:14 < dx> rip
05:16 <+SirCmpwn> why don't you have a local copy of the archlinux wiki, ffmdr
05:16 <+SirCmpwn> I suggest you acquire one when it comes back up
05:17 < ffmdr> SirCmpwn: srsly?
05:17 <+SirCmpwn> you have a full-sized keyboard at your disposal
05:18 < dx> https://www.archlinux.org/packages/community/any/arch-wiki-docs/
05:18 <+SirCmpwn> do not disrespect me with your lazy-words
05:18 < dx> didn't know this existed
05:18 < ffmdr> SirCmpwn: seriously?
05:18 <+SirCmpwn> yes, seriously. local documentation is easier to work with
05:18 <+SirCmpwn> you can grep it and such
05:18 <+SirCmpwn> and it doesn't go down
05:19 < dx> ffmdr: that package i linked has the whole wiki. that's pretty awesome.
05:20 < ffmdr> dx: oh a package. awesome
05:20 <+SirCmpwn> does it update, dx?
05:20 <+SirCmpwn> that'd be pretty sick
05:20 <+SirCmpwn> I can imagine a daily job to update the package
05:20 < ffmdr> SirCmpwn: it is timestamped
05:20 < dx> it updates.. when the package maintainer updates it
05:20 < ffmdr> current one is 20130505-1
05:20 <+SirCmpwn> on the package maintainer's side, that is
05:20 <+SirCmpwn> you should contact the maintainer and ask for the script they use to produce the package
05:20 < dx> https://projects.archlinux.org/svntogit/community.git/tree/trunk?h=packages/arch-wiki-docs
05:21 < dx> the scripts are one click away :D
05:21 <+SirCmpwn> :D
05:21 <+SirCmpwn> the maintainer should set up a cron job to publish new versions of the package periodically
05:21 < dx> yeah
05:21 < ffmdr> SirCmpwn: https://projects.archlinux.org/svntogit/community.git/tree/trunk/index.pl?h=packages/arch-wiki-docs :D
05:22 < ffmdr> it downloads first 500 pages as json if I understand correctly
05:22 <+SirCmpwn> ffmdr: thank you for linking me to exactly what I was just linked to
05:22 <+SirCmpwn> is the arch wiki based on mediawiki?
05:22 < dx> yeah
05:22 <+SirCmpwn> bleh
05:22 < ffmdr> SirCmpwn: I linked to index.pl actually
05:23 <+SirCmpwn> ffmdr: revised: thank you for linking me to something that was a click away from what I was just linked to
05:23 < dx> lol
05:23 < ffmdr> SirCmpwn: np
05:23 <+SirCmpwn> I hope that I can polish my mctechwiki.org thing enough to call it a viable wiki package
05:23 <+SirCmpwn> I'm really tired of mediawiki being used everywhere, it sucks
05:23 < dx> also, nobody likes mediawiki, but nobody agrees in a good replacement for it either
05:23 < barneygale> yeah it already got converted to markdown
05:24 < barneygale> or is that this new wiki?
05:24 < dx> barneygale: context: arch linux wiki
05:24 <+SirCmpwn> please voice your support for this pull request: https://github.com/mojombo/jekyll/pull/585
05:24 <+SirCmpwn> barneygale: mctechwiki.org is something I started putting together earlier today
05:25 < dx> there's no such thing as "voice your support", there's "spam the comments section and still get ignored" :/
05:25 <+SirCmpwn> it's some fancy jekyll+github pages put together at an attempt for a good+powerful collaborative editing platform
05:25 <+SirCmpwn> dx: well, then I revise my request to "please spam the comments section and still get ignored for this pull request"
05:25 < dx> i wish github had proper voting for issues. they can get ignored too, but are less annoying for people who participate in the issue
05:25 < dx> SirCmpwn: :D
05:26 <+SirCmpwn> I might tweet mojombo as well, if he does not respond
05:26 <+SirCmpwn> this feature seems like quite a serious omission from jekyll
05:27 <+SirCmpwn> jekyll seems promising, but half finished, and not really maintained
05:27 <+SirCmpwn> s/maintained/actively developed/
05:30 < dx> personally i'm going to use this to generate my website once i decide to have more than a single index.html http://nikola.ralsina.com.ar/
05:30 < ffmdr> SirCmpwn: btw are you aware of the fact the your home adress is in whois
05:30 <+SirCmpwn> ffmdr: what's the address listed?
05:30 < dx> ffmdr: ...
05:30 < dx> ffmdr: that's perfectly normal for domain names lol
05:30 <+SirCmpwn> I think it's outdated
05:30 <+SirCmpwn> thanks for reminding me to update iit
05:30 <+SirCmpwn> it*
05:31 < dx> North Chestnut Street
05:31 < ffmdr> dx: I think not everyone likes their adress and stuff hanging in whois databases
05:31 < dx> number omitted for no good reason at all
05:31 <+SirCmpwn> yeah, outdated
05:31 <+SirCmpwn> I'll go fix it
05:31 < dx> ffmdr: he seems to be the opposite of that :D
05:31 <+SirCmpwn> actually, I won't bother
05:32 <+SirCmpwn> I'm moving permanently to los angeles in a few months
05:32 <+SirCmpwn> I don't want to update it twice
05:32 <+SirCmpwn> since I own a dozen domains that all need updating
05:32 < dx> ffmdr: but seriously, most people know this perfectly when purchasing a domain
05:32 < ffmdr> dx: some regret it 
05:33 < dx> ffmdr: meh
05:33 <+SirCmpwn> hah, it still says "miner's guild"
05:34 <+SirCmpwn> the first domain I registered with namecheap was on their behalf and they've stuck that in every damn WHOIS record they've assigned since
05:34 < dx> that name is rather generic
05:35 < ffmdr> SirCmpwn: is it some random name or did you register a firm?
05:35 <+SirCmpwn> I still own minersguild.net
05:35 < dx> i get results from a bunch of different non-minecraft games when googling it
05:35 < dx> and bitcoin too
05:35 <+SirCmpwn> I didn't choose the name, ffmdr, I don't know what came of it
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06:10 < ffmdr> Received CTCP-VERSION request by SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn
06:11 <+SirCmpwn> that was at least 15 minutes ago
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07:50 < dylanisawesome1> hello, I've been looking at the protocol, and simply trying to get the player to connect, but the server doesn't seem to respond with anything...
07:52 < dylanisawesome1> here's my code http://pastie.org/8071254
07:52 <+md_5> u
07:52 <+md_5> uh
07:52 <+md_5> there are so many problems with that code I dont know where to begin
07:52 < dylanisawesome1> uh-oh
07:53 <+md_5> you havent pasted the string methods
07:53 <+md_5> you are reading a signed byte into  a Byte
07:53 <+md_5> instead read it unsigned into the primitive byte
07:53 <+md_5> short input = in.readByte() & 0xFF;
07:53 < dylanisawesome1> ok
07:55 < dylanisawesome1> my writestring method: http://pastie.org/8071259
07:59 <+md_5> length +1
07:59 <+md_5> why....
07:59 <+md_5> length is fine
07:59 <+md_5> thats why you never get a response :p
07:59 < dylanisawesome1> really? oh sorry :(
07:59 < dylanisawesome1> lol
07:59 < dylanisawesome1> yay response
07:59 < dylanisawesome1> thanks
07:59 < dylanisawesome1> sorry that my code had "so many problems you didn't know where to begin"
08:03 < dylanisawesome1> thanks for the help!
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08:07 < dx> dos.write(25565);
08:07 < dx> md_5: doesn't this write only one byte?
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08:39 <+md_5> dx yah
08:39 <+md_5> that too
08:39 < dx> i have no idea how he got it working then
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08:51 < SinZ> also, his clientstatus packet
08:55 <+SirCmpwn> more people should suggest using an existing library right off the bat for these sorts
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09:08 < dx> SirCmpwn: yeah, but i don't think we can cover every possible implementation language with decent up to date libraries
09:08 <+SirCmpwn> so don't
09:09 <+SirCmpwn> just link them to whichever implementation is closest to their desired language
09:09 < dx> i don't think we can force everyone to use C# either
09:09 <+SirCmpwn> no, but we can strongly suggest it, since these folks generally fail to make their own
09:10 < dx> ¯\(°_o)/¯ 
09:10 < dx> we could.
09:28 < Drainedsoul> so condescending
09:30 < dx> Drainedsoul: er, a lot of people who join here are completely clueless
09:31 < dx> and it's an awful protocol to implement completely
09:33 <+SirCmpwn> Drainedsoul: it comes from being here for a long time
09:33 <+SirCmpwn> well, a "long time"
09:33 <+SirCmpwn> a year and a half, ish
09:34 < Drainedsoul> it's a pretty awful protocol, but I think how awful it is to implement depends on your language-of-choice
09:34 <+SirCmpwn> most of the people that come here probably couldn't implement it on the language of their choice without some of us doing half the work for them
09:34 < dx> ^pretty much
09:34 <+SirCmpwn> better to direct them to some existing code than to waste the time of everyone involved
09:35 <+AndrewPH> Drainedsoul: coming from somebody who's been here for over 2 years, most of the people who join here don't know what they're getting into
09:36 < Drainedsoul> that's true, but that kind of attitude has a tendency to catch people in a wide net
09:36 < dx> IMO the best way to have libraries that cover most languages is to use something like deoxxa's libmcnet, which already has nodejs bindings
09:37 < dx> and it's just a protocol parser
09:37 <+SirCmpwn> Drainedsoul: did you not see the code he posted here
09:37 <+SirCmpwn> Drainedsoul: and the question he asked
09:37 <+SirCmpwn> Drainedsoul: he was obviously wasting his and our time
09:38 < Drainedsoul> I'm not questioning that, but having existing libraries rammed down your throat when that's not what you want or need is exceptionally annoying
09:39 < dx> annoying?
09:39 < dx> what's annoying about already having a working implementation of what you want to do?
09:39 < Drainedsoul> "when that's not what you want or need"
09:39 < dx> they often "need" to have a NPC bot for a server or some equivalent bullshit
09:40 < dx> not to learn networking through an awful protocol
09:41 < Drainedsoul> well, if you're learning networking through a protocol you already have problems
09:41 <+SirCmpwn> exactly
09:41 < dx> this kind of people often don't know anything about networking, and can barely tell apart different data types
09:42 <+SirCmpwn> I remember that guy who didn't know how to write data to a TCP stream
09:42 < dx> so what's the issue about telling them how to avoid a nightmare?
09:42 <+SirCmpwn> I kept not telling him and he didn't get the hint
09:42 < Drainedsoul> well, using a library isn't going to ameliorate the issue of not understanding data types
09:42 <+SirCmpwn> Drainedsoul: it makes it so they don't have to know
09:43 < Drainedsoul> a library doesn't remove the limitations of data types
09:43 <+SirCmpwn> what kind of libraries are you using
09:43 < Drainedsoul> you can't magically represent 65536 as a 16-bit unsigned integer because you used a library
09:43 <+SirCmpwn> you don't need to
09:43 < Drainedsoul> need is a very strong and often subjective word
09:43 <+SirCmpwn> using Craft.Net, for example, you can make bots without even coming close to the network
09:43 <+SirCmpwn> ditto for servers
09:44 < dx> in a statically typed language, you'll get the packets with the corresponding data types, and the compiler will tell you if you get it wrong
09:44 < dx> in a dynamically typed language, the libraries will 
09:44 < dx> damn enter
09:44 < dx> will just do the appropriate casts when sending and receiving from the socket
09:45 < dx> (i wonder, am i oversimplifying?)
09:45 < Drainedsoul> assuming the types are convertible or sane, yes.
09:45 < dx> http://wiki.vg/Data_Types
09:45 < dx> not rocket science
09:45 < Drainedsoul> ...but we were just talking under the assumption that the person-in-question didn't understand data types
09:46 < Drainedsoul> so your solution to them not understanding data types is to understand data types
09:46 < Drainedsoul> ergo proving my point
09:46 < dx> er no?
09:46 <+SirCmpwn> you don't need to know how an int moves over the wire to use one locally
09:46 < Drainedsoul> an int is a data type
09:46 <+SirCmpwn> you don't need to know how many bits are in it or what endianness it is or the signedness
09:46 < Drainedsoul> we were talking about data types
09:46 < Drainedsoul> not byte-serialized representations thereof
09:46 < Drainedsoul> yeah that has nothing to do with data types, that's serialization
09:46 <+SirCmpwn> well that's what bloody well matters here, isn't it
09:47 < dx> okay then, they don't have to deal with serialization, including width, endianness, alignment, and all that bullshit
09:47 < Drainedsoul> well they still have to deal with width, but not those othings things
09:47 <+SirCmpwn> they don't really have to deal with width
09:48 < dx> they can send integers as ints, doubles as float, strings as strings
09:48 < dx> the library will turn ints into shorts or longs or whatever
09:48 < Drainedsoul> double to float is narrowing
09:48 < dx> it's just an example
09:48 <+SirCmpwn> and it doesn't matter
09:48 <+SirCmpwn> under what circumstances will that matter
09:48 < Drainedsoul> well if you want to represent 65536, it certainly matters if that gets narrowed to 16 bits
09:49 <+SirCmpwn> under what circumstances will they want to represent 65536
09:49 < dx> if they want to send data that is bigger than the protocol field allows it, the library can throw a warning or exception
09:50 <+SirCmpwn> example: with Craft.Net, you use "client.Position.Z += Vector3.Forward" to move forward
09:50 <+SirCmpwn> you use world.SetBlock(new Coordinates3D(1, 2, 3), GoldBlock.BlockId) to set a block
09:50 <+SirCmpwn> it's all rather idiot-proof
09:50 <+SirCmpwn> other libraries are similar
09:51 < Drainedsoul> I wouldn't exactly call that "idiot proof", but it's certainly a convenient level of abstraction
09:51 <+SirCmpwn> you can even do things like using Vector3 and Coordinates3D interchangeably, it'll automatically convert it before it goes over the wire or anything
09:51 < Drainedsoul> my point is really that all abstractions leak
09:52 <+SirCmpwn> and this much is suitable for the applications the ignorant ones come in here looking to build
09:52 < Drainedsoul> which is fine, but originally I was talking about having pre-built libraries and just seeing everything as a use case, when it may not be so.
09:52 < Drainedsoul> even if all you have is a hammer, not everything is a nail
09:52 <+SirCmpwn> you keep forgetting the main point, Drainedsoul. We are discussing how to reduce the amount of time wasted on people who are not going to succeed
09:52 <+SirCmpwn> which I see as quite a problem in this channel
09:53 < Drainedsoul> there's also the problem that people allow those people to infect their mindset when answering the questions of people whose success is not quite so predetermined
09:53 <+SirCmpwn> how about this
09:54 <+SirCmpwn> I won't do this to any new users for a few weeks
09:54 <+SirCmpwn> but every time one shows up, I'll PM you my prediction on their success
09:54 < dx> lol
09:54 <+SirCmpwn> we'll measure my success rate and then subjectively determine if this policy is a good one to use
09:54 <+SirCmpwn> objectively*
09:54 < dx> :D
09:54 < Drainedsoul> but that wouldn't convince me.  I think it's fine to suggest libraries, pre-built tools, etc. for someone once it's evident they need them
09:54 < Drainedsoul> I'm saying that people who neither want or need them shouldn't have them shoved down their throats
09:55 <+SirCmpwn> I'll just tell them to PM you for help, then
09:56 < dx> also
09:56 < Drainedsoul> I'm not compelled to answer or engage them, so I don't see how that matters
09:56 < dx> gotta love one hour long discussions about how to avoid wasting time
09:56 <+SirCmpwn> if you aren't going to be offering assistance to people here, you aren't in a position to advise on how this assistance is provided
09:56 <+SirCmpwn> dx: of course
09:56 < Drainedsoul> yeah the whole channel is a waste of time.  hobby development is a "waste of time".  "Waste of time" is totally subjective
09:57 <+SirCmpwn> it's objective, according to what I've been saying this whole time. It's a waste of time to assist someone who will fail to accomplish their goal
09:57 < dx> what isn't subjective is that people joining here often get frustrated about the complexity of the protocol
09:58 < dx> bah, it's not complex, it's just complicated, boring, and with lots of manual work unless you find a clever way to avoid it
09:58 < dexter0> It's not a waste of time if they learn something along the way or as a result of their failure.
09:58 < Drainedsoul> I'm speaking from the personal bias of being tired of being told to simply use something that exists, or being treated like I have no idea what I'm talking about
09:58 < Drainedsoul> also what dexter0 said
09:58 < dx> the minecraft protocol is not the right place to learn basic networking...
09:59 < Drainedsoul> no protocol is the right place to learn basic networking
09:59 <+SirCmpwn> the only thing they usually learn is that they arne't capable of minecraft hacking
09:59 < dx> not sure what meaning of hacking you're using there :D
09:59 <+SirCmpwn> Drainedsoul: do you have any idea what you are talking about?
10:00 < Drainedsoul> I'm assuming that question is rhetorical.
10:00 < dx> i have no idea how to read that question as rhetorical, sounded pretty direct to me
10:00 <+SirCmpwn> where's your github, Drainedsoul
10:00 < dx> enlighten me
10:01 < Drainedsoul> saying that a protocol is the place to learn basic networking, is like saying that building rooves is the place to learn to build houses
10:01 <+SirCmpwn> what's your goal, and how far have you come, in how much time
10:01 < Drainedsoul> protocols presuppose basic networking abilities
10:01 < dx> if you have to write an IRC client, you just need to know how to write bytestrings to a tcp socket
10:01 < dx> sounds like a perfect place to start for me
10:02 < Drainedsoul> the ideal place to learn something is not somewhere that you have to do it
10:02 <+SirCmpwn> I dunno, IRC is a lot better than Minecraft, but it still leaves a lot to be desired
10:02 <+SirCmpwn> like proper transactions
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10:03 < dx> SirCmpwn: hah, tktech mentioned the same thing about transactions the last time we talked about suggesting the irc protocol to newbies
10:03 <+SirCmpwn> I can't really think of a better protocol to suggest, though
10:03 <+SirCmpwn> certainly not HTTP
10:03 < dx> http is boring
10:03 <+SirCmpwn> maybe DNS, but that's a UDP protocol
10:04 < Drainedsoul> you can do DNS over TCP too
10:04 <+SirCmpwn> yeah, but you shouldn't
10:04 < Drainedsoul> well you can't zone transfer with UDP afaik
10:05 <+SirCmpwn> you can also deliver a piece of paper with a semi truck
10:07 <+AndrewPH> SirCmpwn: isn't http/1.0 really simple?
10:07 <+SirCmpwn> simple, yeah
10:07 <+SirCmpwn> but there are some really stupid things
10:07 < Drainedsoul> are there any truly beautiful, not-stupid protocols?
10:08 <+SirCmpwn> AndrewPH: example: multipart/form-data
10:08 <+AndrewPH> Drainedsoul: the runescape protocol is pretty beautiful
10:08 < Drainedsoul> for starter protocols, anything you can type over telnet is better than most, imho
10:08 <+AndrewPH> and I think I almost died saying that
10:09 < dx> AndrewPH: haha what, that was unexpected
10:09 < Drainedsoul> honestly I like SMTP
10:09 <+AndrewPH> dx: had to do some work with it... well, with the old protocol
10:09 < Drainedsoul> not to be confused with ESMTP
10:09 <+SirCmpwn> telnet is a protocol in and of itself
10:09 <+AndrewPH> but i suspect it's not much different
10:09 <+SirCmpwn> I wish more people understood that
10:09 < Drainedsoul> yeah but it doesn't have much of an application
10:09 <+SirCmpwn> you can't use most protocols properly with it
10:10 < Drainedsoul> what do you mean "properly"
10:10 <+SirCmpwn> without botching it all up
10:10 < dx> telnet has its own terminal emulation handling
10:11 < dx> so sometimes you send more data than what you see
10:11 < Drainedsoul> that could be true.  I've used POP3 and SMTP servers with telnet clients before (and PuTTY in raw mode, but that's different) and that worked fine
10:11 <+SirCmpwn> putty in raw mode is what you're looking for
10:12 < Drainedsoul> I don't always have PuTTY :(
10:12 <+SirCmpwn> you always have netcat
10:12 <+SirCmpwn> if you're on unixy systems
10:12 < Drainedsoul> then again, I guess that argument doesn't hold water
10:12 < dx> how can you not have putty on windows
10:12 < Drainedsoul> because on modern Windows you don't always have telnet either
10:12 < Drainedsoul> ffs M$
10:12 < dx> putty is the first thing i download every time i have to use a windows pc
10:12 <+SirCmpwn> haha it's funny because you replaced the S with a dollar symbol, implying that Microsoft is a business that exists to make money
10:12 <+SirCmpwn> that was great
10:12 <+SirCmpwn> I love it
10:13 < dx> lol
10:13 < Drainedsoul> I actually love it too.  I don't even use it scathingly I like Microsoft
10:13 <+AndrewPH> i like it when people say credit unions are the same as banks
10:13 < Drainedsoul> I like it when people say that credit unions are a sensible alternative to banks
10:13 <+AndrewPH> <sometimes they are, depends on the area>
10:13 < Drainedsoul> they definitely are where I live
10:14 <+SirCmpwn> I like bitcoin
10:14 <+SirCmpwn> but that's only half-related
10:14 <+AndrewPH> I've heard of areas with shit unions
10:14 < Drainedsoul> if Toronto Dominion hadn't always been so great to me, I'd defs have go credit union
10:14 <+AndrewPH> columbia credit union is excellent c:
10:14 <+AndrewPH> every time I go in, a++ customer service they get 6 stars out of 3
10:14 < Drainedsoul> I love places like that
10:14 <+SirCmpwn> speaking of money-handling institutions
10:14 <+SirCmpwn> I really dislike TCF bank and I should move my money somewhere else soon
10:15 < Drainedsoul> and it's not like great customer service is even hard or that expensive to provide
10:15 <+SirCmpwn> also, there are no TCF branches in LA
10:15 < Drainedsoul> the worst is banks with shitty web security.  It's not very confidence installing
10:15 <+AndrewPH> there's also a gamestop here that has great employees, and another that has so-so employees
10:15 < dx> this conversation topic shift brought to you by s/MS/M$/
10:15 <+AndrewPH> I go to the one with the better employees even though it's further away
10:15 <+SirCmpwn> TCF doesn't let you right click on their website "for security reasons", Drainedsoul
10:15 <+AndrewPH> dx: and a sleep-deprived 18 year old
10:15 < Calinou> dx: more like C#
10:15 < Drainedsoul> omg
10:15 <+SirCmpwn> hey, Calinou is here
10:16 < Drainedsoul> I was on a website once where they didn't like you right-click because otherwise you could save the images
10:16 <+SirCmpwn> hello, Calinou
10:16 < dx> HI THERE CALINOU
10:16 <+AndrewPH> Drainedsoul: "I then pressed control u and downloaded all of their images to spite them
10:16 <+AndrewPH> "
10:16 <+SirCmpwn> and how surprising, Calinou, you're talking about C#
10:16 < Calinou> HI THERE DWM USER
10:16 < dx> dwm what
10:16 < Calinou> DWMDWMDWM
10:17 <+SirCmpwn> what is dwm
10:17 < Calinou> lol
10:17 < Calinou> a window manager
10:17 < Calinou> and a shitty one
10:17 < dx> i don't use it
10:17 <+SirCmpwn> dwm is short for desktop window manager
10:17 <+SirCmpwn> that's like saying "book" is a book
10:17 < dx> most creative name ever
10:17 < dx> bwp is short for "book with pages"
10:17 < Calinou> by dvorak users, for dvorak users
10:17 <+SirCmpwn> oh, it's dwm.exe
10:17 <+SirCmpwn> it doesn't actually have a name
10:18 <+SirCmpwn> it's the windows DWM
10:18 < dx> oh right there's a windows one too with the same name as the suckless one
10:18 <+SirCmpwn> well, I'm currently using Cinnamon
10:18 <+AndrewPH> #mcdevs, the new #minecraft
10:18 <+AndrewPH> Able to stay on a topic for 2.37 sec
10:18 < dx> freenode #minecraft or esper #minecraft?
10:18 < Calinou> #minceraft
10:19 < Calinou> freenode
10:19 < Calinou> the one that sucks
10:19 < dx> i'm pretty sure the esper one is worse
10:19 <+AndrewPH> dx: freenode one is full of angsty redditors who make reddit jokes all the time
10:19 <+AndrewPH> esper one has quatroking
10:19 <+AndrewPH> it's a matter of taste I suppose
10:19 < dx> heh
10:19 <+SirCmpwn> I wonder if I'm still banned from #minecraft on freenode
10:19 <+SirCmpwn> nope
10:20 < dx> i actually like /r/minecraft
10:20 <+SirCmpwn> still banned from ##php
10:20 <+SirCmpwn> can't remember if I'm banned anywhere else on freenode
10:20 <+AndrewPH> I got really tired of most of the larger subreddits because they end up being the same as f7u12 after a while
10:20 < Drainedsoul> PHP is such a horrible language.
10:20 <+AndrewPH> /r/wiiu, /r/3ds, and /r/animalcrossing are my limits most of the time
10:20 <+AndrewPH> speaking of, I should go play oracle of ages since I impulse bought it two days ago
10:21 <+SirCmpwn> I mostly go on /r/anime and /r/awwnime these days
10:21 < dx> /r/anime is awful
10:21 <+Matvei> SirCmpwn, nice to see you back in the channel! Welcome back (sorry if I'm late)
10:21 <+SirCmpwn> I go there for the discussions when I watch the latest ep of the shows I'm following
10:21 <+SirCmpwn> hello Matvei, remind me who you are
10:21 <+AndrewPH> Matvei: I've corrupted everybody with the magic of changing the subject too fast
10:21 <+AndrewPH> SirCmpwn: f.
10:21 <+Matvei> The guy who annoyingly changes names
10:21 < Drainedsoul> I wound up unsubbing from /r/gameofthrones
10:21 < dx> were you fragmer?
10:21 <+SirCmpwn> Matvei: stop that
10:21 <+Matvei> yeah
10:21 <+AndrewPH> ding ding ding
10:22 <+Matvei> ok fine I'll go back to fragmer :U
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10:22 < dx> \o/
10:22 <+fragmer> Better? okay.
10:22 <+SirCmpwn> who were you before fragmer
10:23 <+fragmer> "fragmer2k", back in the year 2000, when "2k" was cool
10:23 <+SirCmpwn> 2k was never actually cool
10:23 <+SirCmpwn> but fine, stick with fragmer
10:23 <+AndrewPH> madden 2k5
10:23 <+AndrewPH> fear the "d"
10:23 <+fragmer> I was 12 at the time, it seemed plenty cool :p
10:23 <+SirCmpwn> I was 7 at the time
10:23 <+SirCmpwn> wasn't cool
10:23 <+fragmer> Pffft.
10:23 < dexter0> were you Scootabyte at one point?
10:24 < Calinou> SirCmpwn: i am :D
10:24 < Calinou> Drainedsoul: no u
10:24 <+fragmer> Yep...
10:24 <+SirCmpwn> Calinou: you are what
10:24 < Calinou> banned from #minecraft
10:24 < dx> he's 7 now?
10:24 < dx> oh
10:24 < dx> okay
10:24 <+SirCmpwn> congrats
10:24 <+fragmer> Well, sorry for derailing the conversation. SirCmpwn: how's craft.net doing?
10:24 <+SirCmpwn> I'm sure you're very proud of yourself
10:24 < dx> derailing what conversation?
10:24 <+SirCmpwn> fragmer: still chugging along
10:24 < Calinou> no u, sir camper pwn
10:24 <+SirCmpwn> fragmer: and the conversation has been derailed about a dozen times tonight
10:25  * Calinou derails it again
10:25 < dexter0> SirCmpwn: btw, you are banned from #minecraft again :P
10:25 < dx> i'm pretty sure the conversation topic itself was 'derailing'
10:25 <+SirCmpwn> dexter0: that's awesome, I left without saying anything
10:25 < dx> as *cough* some people *cough* were intentionally trying to change the topic as fast as possible
10:25 <+SirCmpwn> you should drop the log on a pastebin
10:26 <+SirCmpwn> I'd be interested in reading it
10:27 < dexter0> http://pastebin.com/DxGp8afK
10:27 < dx> that was short
10:27 <+SirCmpwn> no, I was more interested in the hastily changing subject you mentioned
10:28 < dx> i was talking about #mcdevs lol
10:28 < dx> i'm not in #minecraft
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10:30 <+SirCmpwn> oh, I was confused
10:36 <+fragmer> Colorado sure is on fire this year
10:36 <+fragmer> My own house almost burnt down in Black Forest Fire a week ago (502 homes did burn, new record, woo)
10:37 <+fragmer> Last year another fire set the previous record, 10km away
10:37 <+SirCmpwn> you're in colorado?
10:37 <+fragmer> Yep
10:37 <+SirCmpwn> I'm flying back home to the springs on the 3rd
10:37 <+fragmer> There's like 13 fires in progress at the moment
10:38 <+fragmer> Biggest one at ~268 km^2
10:38 <+SirCmpwn> my apartment was evacuated during waldo canyon
10:38 <+fragmer> Ah. I was on pre-evac during Waldo Canyon
10:38 <+fragmer> And riiiight next to Black Forest
10:38 <+SirCmpwn> I'm right across the street from mountain shadows
10:38 <+SirCmpwn> at the end of GoG
10:38 <+fragmer> I dont know that area, sorry
10:39 <+SirCmpwn> mountain shadows is the neighborhood that burned down during waldo canyon fire
10:39 <+fragmer> Ah
10:39 <+fragmer> Black Forest fire this year wasn't nearly as spectacular as Waldo Canyon
10:39 <+SirCmpwn> I think 511 homes burned
10:39 <+SirCmpwn> yeah, 511
10:39 <+fragmer> Waldo Canyon looked so cinematic!
10:40 <+SirCmpwn> I was in seattle for that one
10:40 <+SirCmpwn> I tend to not be around whenever colorado is on fire
10:41 <+SirCmpwn> anyway, going to sleep
10:41 <+SirCmpwn> we should do an activity when I get back to colorado, fragmer
10:41 <+fragmer> http://i.imgur.com/RPRRa.jpg
10:41 <+fragmer> ^ this was the view from my home
10:42 <+fragmer> Perhaps
10:43 <+fragmer> I didn't get any decent pictures of the Black Forest fire. Smoke was so thick, it was like playing Minecraft on nearest fog setting
10:43 <+fragmer> No pretty smoke clouds
10:45 <+fragmer> Anyways, can't wait to see what nature has to offer next year
10:45 <+fragmer> There's still lots of forest to burn around my home
10:45 <+fragmer> Good night~
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13:38 < luntik13> hh
13:38 < luntik13> i
13:40 < luntik13> no matter what biome i send in 0x38, client displays everything in same way
13:40 < luntik13> any working example of sending biomes?
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13:54 < dav1d> oh hi, how is your server going pbunny?
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14:15 < luntik13> dav1d: good, pbunny implemented mooshrooms yesterday :)
14:16 < dav1d> good to hear
14:17 < luntik13> they grow mushrooms over the world but you can only see them when youre on shrooms :)
14:17 < luntik13> otherwise you just see mushrooms grow by themselves
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15:09 < dav1d> pdelvo_, pdelvo-, pdelvo: you got the MSVC toolchain installed?
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15:35 < TkTech> dx: Heh, it's true. Without transaction you can very easily loose track of state in an IRC client (or server).
15:36 < TkTech> SirCmpwn: MSNP8? It's line-based, simple, and has transaction IDs :)
15:36 < dx> it's nearly extinct too
15:36 < TkTech> …although I think it might be deprecated now
15:37 < dx> deprecated for sure, but afaik MSNP8 is the oldest version that still works
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17:42 < eagleApex> 3~3~3~
17:43 < eagleApex> What is the best jre for Minecraft on Ubuntu? i seem to have 2 installed
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17:48 <+SirCmpwn> I use openjdk
17:49 < eagleApex> SirCmpwn: thx
17:49 <+SirCmpwn> thanks*
17:49 < eagleApex> yes. also Thank you, Sir.
17:53 <+pdelvo> @dav1d no I have not
17:54 < dav1d> kk
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20:46 < unnicked751> what can cause minecraft to stop sending use entity packets when attacking other player (even though other player is visible and moving) ?
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03:19 < ffmdr> ipv6 \o/
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04:27 < mappum> does anyone know the growth rate/chance of saplings? i can't find how fast they should grow
04:29 < ffmdr> mappum: http://www.minecraftforge.net/wiki/Plants#Growing_.28Ticks.29
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04:37 < mappum> thanks
04:38 < ffmdr> mappum: np
04:38 < mappum> hmm, i cant find tree info on there
04:40 < ffmdr> if the random in range is 0 the tree will fully grow
04:41 < mappum> well the range is what i'm trying to find
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04:52 < ffmdr> it is described there
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05:00 < mappum> it just says there is a growth rate, it doesn't say the actual constant that the growth rate is
05:06 < dx> hm, for that amount of detail i guess all you can do is reading the """source code"""
05:08 < dx> wait
05:08 < dx> ..
05:08 < dx> that page has a snippet of that source code lol
05:08 < dx> do you even java bro
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05:10 <+SirCmpwn> that was an excessive amount of quotation marks
05:11 < dx> it can't be helped, i'm a python dev
05:13 < dx> and when i use ``proper quotes'' some people complain that they look unmatched
05:13 <+SirCmpwn> "these" are "proper" quotes
05:13 <+SirCmpwn> according to English language conventions, at least
05:14 < dx> i have no idea what you're talking about
05:14 <+SirCmpwn> also, what kind of person starts a quoted statement with graves and ends with single-quotes
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05:16 < dx> it's the TeX style
05:16 <+ammar2> SirCmpwn: it gets closer to the standard curly style quotes than straight quotes
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05:17 <+SirCmpwn> depending on your font, " may be rendered curly
05:17 < dx> but it can only go in one direction
05:17 <+SirCmpwn> true
05:18 <+SirCmpwn> but your example uses twice the memory
05:18 < dx> lol
05:18 <+ammar2> dx: ”hello yes”
05:18 <+ammar2> dx: ”isn't this annoying”
05:19 < dx> ammar2: “maybe”
05:21 < dx> unicode quotes use 50% more memory than the TeX counterparts when encoded as UTF-8, and the same amount of memory when using UTF-16 or UCS-2
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05:22 < dx> science
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05:22 <+SirCmpwn> " is defined in ASCII, and UTF-8 supports the entire ASCII set
05:22 <+SirCmpwn> ASCII is 7 bits to a character
05:22 <+SirCmpwn> can any of your alternatives (``, '', ”) beat that?
05:23 < dx> damn
05:23 <+ammar2> SirCmpwn: shame you can't point to 7 bits and then use the 1 remainder
05:23 <+ammar2> otherwise you might have won there
05:23 <+SirCmpwn> you can use the 1 remainder, if you really want to
05:23 <+SirCmpwn> it was originally used as a checksum
05:24 <+SirCmpwn> so it doesn't change the character in use
05:25 < dx> a checksum? if it was ever used like that, it didn't last long
05:25 < ffmdr> SirCmpwn: is last bit ignored :D?
05:25 < dx> i'm pretty sure US ASCII DOS codepages used it for box drawing characters since the beginning
05:25 <+SirCmpwn> dx: this goes way back to the time where sending 7 bits had a considerable risk of corruption
05:26 <+SirCmpwn> parity was just the original use on octet-based systems, the use of bit 7 was not formally defined in the ASCII specification, and was implementation-specific when they had to pad to 8 bits
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05:26 < dx> right
05:27 <+SirCmpwn> also, a lot of systems actually did send them in groups of 7 bits, without sending the extra bit, since not all communication protocols back then were octet-based
05:27 <+SirCmpwn> so ammar2, phooey to you
05:28 <+ammar2> ok you win by one bit
05:28 <+ammar2> happy?
05:28 <+SirCmpwn> yes.
05:29 < dx> (actually he wins by 9 bits)
05:29 <+SirCmpwn> yeah, I was about to say that
05:30 < dx> (or 17 bits if we compare with utf-8)
05:30 <+SirCmpwn> no, all three of your alternatives took up 16 bits
05:30 <+SirCmpwn> unless you count '''
05:30 <+SirCmpwn> which is 21 bits
05:31 <+SirCmpwn> fun fact, I once wrote some code that sent ASCII over a wire and only sent 7 bits per character
05:33 < dx> >>> u"“".encode("utf-8")                                                                                                                                                                                             
05:33 < dx> '\xe2\x80\x9c'
05:33 < dx> blarg i accidentally included whitespace after that line
05:34 <+SirCmpwn> ah, I was wrong
05:34 <+SirCmpwn> however, I'd say I still won by 9 bits, since your best offer was 16
05:34 < dx> yeah
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05:34 < dx> or, well, we could encode `` and '' in 14 bits too
05:35 <+SirCmpwn> well, your best offer was 14
05:35 <+SirCmpwn> yeah
05:35 <+SirCmpwn> so I win by 7 bits
05:35 < dx> it seems we're really bored
05:35 <+SirCmpwn> indeed.
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05:35 <+SirCmpwn> fun fact, I could have sent 2 bits at a time over the wire with that code I mentioned
05:35 <+SirCmpwn> but I chose to use one bit for ACK instead of doing clever timing tricks
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05:36 < dx> sort of like abusing full duplex?
05:36 <+SirCmpwn> I don't understand what you mean
05:37 < dx> don't worry, i don't understand it either. i'm not good at that kind of low level transmission
05:37 <+SirCmpwn> it was very low level. Pulling wires low and high and such
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05:40 <+SirCmpwn> both devices had to pull the wire high for it to read high. So the receiving end kept it high all the time, and the sending end would set the data bit low or high (which would be reflected on the wire), and then pulled ACK low to show that it'd be set, and after a few cycles, the sender pulled it high, and the reciever pulled ACK high when it was ready for the next bit
05:40 <+SirCmpwn> something like that
05:40 <+SirCmpwn> wire transfer behavior is really annoying to work with
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09:34 < Drainedsoul> wow was that really someone with an IPv6 address
09:37 < dx> lol
09:37 < SinZ> IPv6 isn't rare for IRC
09:38 < dx> i've got spare ipv6 addresses with every one of my VPSes
09:38 < dx> they are absurdly cheap
09:38 < SinZ> well there are so many of them
09:40 < dav1d> there are too many :P
09:41 < dav1d> before IP adresses run out, we are out of MACs
09:41 -!- mappum [~mappum@c-67-170-21-29.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
09:41 < dx> indeed
09:42 < dav1d> they wasted an entire range of /112 on broadcasts...
09:43 < dav1d> I think that says all -_-
09:43 < dx> we can't complain about reserved ranges, ipv4 was much worse
09:43 < dx> well, is.
09:43 < dav1d> /116 even iirc
09:43 < dav1d> no but the amount of ip adresses reserverd, more than IPv4 ever had
09:44 < dav1d> ff0*::1 I think are all broadcasts
09:45 < dx> it's trivial to get a /64 for yourself, and that already is more than ipv4 ever had
09:45 < dx> it's pointless to compare them like that
09:46 < dav1d> that was the point ;)
09:46 < dx> lol
09:50 < dav1d> gcc-gcj y u no in repos
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10:11 <+md_5> yah
10:11 <+md_5> Ive got 5 \48's and 5 \64s
10:14 < Grum> weird windows user; it's / ;)
10:15 <+md_5> w/e
10:15 <+md_5> Im not even a windows user...
10:15 < Grum> don't you mean: w\e ? :D
10:15 <+md_5> Been linux for 1.5 years now
10:15 < AlphaBlend> LOL
10:15  * AlphaBlend backslashes Grum
10:15 < Grum> md_5: windows fanboiiii ;)
10:16 < AlphaBlend> hey that's me
10:16 < AlphaBlend> i'm an XP fanboy
10:16 < Grum> :(
10:16 < AlphaBlend> wat
10:16 < AlphaBlend> please don't say what i don't think you should say
10:16 < Drainedsoul> I honestly like working with WinAPI a lot more than POSIX :/
10:17 < AlphaBlend> were you a windows user before Grum?
10:17 < Grum> AlphaBlend: i'm a windows, osx and linux user :)
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10:17 < AlphaBlend> ah
10:17 < Grum> i hate them all equally and all have their own strengths
10:18 < AlphaBlend> you're perfect test dummy before pushing out minecraft updates, runs it through all 3 OSs :P
10:18 < SinZ> Everyone in the office basically has access to all 3
10:18 < Grum> i *hate* devving on windows; i dislike the general 'incompatibility' of linux for gui-related things
10:18 < Grum> osx makes a perfect dev-os for me
10:18 < AlphaBlend> D:
10:18 < Drainedsoul> what's wrong with developing on Windows?
10:18 < AlphaBlend> ah
10:18 < Grum> windows has the best gaming support
10:18 < Grum> linux the best 'be a sane server without doing 10000 clickyclicky/waste of resources'
10:18 < AlphaBlend> ahahaha
10:19 < Grum> Drainedsoul: because i need to install cygwin and some terminal emulator to be remotely productive on window
10:19 < Grum> +s
10:20 < Drainedsoul> why, what are you producing that requires cygwin
10:20 < dav1d> osx is horrible
10:20 < dav1d> lol
10:20 < Grum> Drainedsoul: windows tools are 'fucking fail'
10:20 < Drainedsoul> which ones
10:20 < Grum> try finding a string in a file somewhere :p
10:20 < Grum> i miss the power of the cmdline
10:20 < dav1d> osx = expensive linux with no real benefit (except mac notebooks are slim!)
10:20 < Grum> and windows is .... horrible
10:20 < Drainedsoul> I just use Notepad++ to do that
10:20 < Grum> Drainedsoul: over a whole folder?
10:21 < Drainedsoul> yeah sure
10:21 < dav1d> grep -Rl foobar .
10:21 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: ^
10:21 < dav1d> I bet I am faster
10:21 < Grum> indeed
10:21 < Grum> oh and then remove some stuff frmo the line with sed; unique it; sort with count ...
10:21 < Grum> i mean .... none of that power in windows without tons of pain
10:21 < AlphaBlend> windows cmd: type text.txt | find "text here"
10:21 < Grum> hahahahaha
10:21 < dav1d> lol
10:22 < Drainedsoul> http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windows/xp/all/proddocs/en-us/find.mspx?mfr=true
10:22 < Grum> and now try that recursively on a whole folder excluding certain file extensions :P
10:22 < dav1d> I mean, we can discuss a lot here, but linux commandline vs. windows commandline
10:22 < dav1d> lol
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10:22 < AlphaBlend> Grum: May be possible with batch, but I haven't done much with batch though >.>
10:22 < Drainedsoul> I did a lot of work w/PowerShell at a previous job, I really liked it
10:22 < Grum> oh and then putting the result in a list, formatted, with uniqued with count
10:22 < Drainedsoul> the .NET interop was nice
10:22 < Grum> AlphaBlend: its not
10:22 < dav1d> y u compile forever gcc-gcj :(
10:22 < AlphaBlend> ah ;(
10:22 < Grum> yes powershel is a minor improvement
10:22 <+md_5> dav1d why do you want gcj
10:22 < Grum> however the shell is WTFuckedup
10:22 <+md_5> have you ever tried that sit
10:22 <+md_5> shit
10:22 < dav1d> md_5: need it for pdftk
10:23 <+md_5> pdftk is gcj
10:23 <+md_5> wat
10:23 < AlphaBlend> Grum: So I guess you've done a bit of batch yourself?
10:23 < Grum> try sane copy/pasting, resizing, proper fonts
10:23 < dav1d> md_5: it requires it
10:23 < Grum> AlphaBlend: yes when i was 11
10:23 < AlphaBlend> what for?
10:23 <+md_5> really
10:23 < Grum> used to make menu structures in batfiles :P
10:23 < Grum> that installed games etc
10:23 < AlphaBlend> oh
10:23 < AlphaBlend> yeah that
10:23 < AlphaBlend> with the goto lines :p
10:23 < dav1d> md_5: it's in the arch AUR and has gcc-gcj as dependency... so I wait
10:23 <+md_5> The following extra packages will be installed:
10:23 <+md_5>   gcj-4.6-base gcj-4.6-jre-lib libgcj-common libgcj12
10:23 <+md_5> I'll be damned
10:23 < dav1d> haha
10:23 < AlphaBlend> yes i've done stuff like that before
10:23 < Grum> AlphaBlend: painful at best
10:23 < dav1d> lucky you, you have it in the repos
10:23 < AlphaBlend> kinda forgot mostly now, haven't used it in awhile
10:23 < dav1d> compiling for ~45mins already
10:24 < Grum> anyhow, in the CLI comparison of windows vs *nix ..... windows FAILS
10:24 <+md_5> I had gcj on my old install so didnt notice when I got pdftk
10:24 < dav1d> should have edited the PKGBUILD to use -j6
10:24 <+md_5> dav1d why not just install gcj manually?
10:24 < Drainedsoul> I remember when I compiled GCC 4.8.0 from source, that took a while...
10:24 < dav1d> md_5: it's not in the repos
10:24 < dav1d> I have to compile it
10:24 <+md_5> its in ubuntu..
10:24 < dav1d> lol ya
10:24 < Grum> mm what does gcj do? java->native?
10:24 < dav1d> gcc-gcj 4.6
10:24 < dav1d> lul
10:24 < Grum> or just an alternative javac?
10:24 < dav1d> Grum: either bytecode (java) or native
10:24 <+md_5> you can use ubuntu repos in arch cant you?
10:25 <+md_5> its to native
10:25 <+md_5> its shit though
10:25 < dav1d> md_5: it can do both
10:25 < Grum> so how 'good' is it?
10:25 <+md_5> and barely supports java 1.5
10:25 < Grum> yeah ok
10:25 < Grum> thought so :p
10:25 < dav1d> wanted to try it on minecraft :D
10:25 < AlphaBlend> lol
10:25 < dav1d> mcp → gcc-gcj
10:25 <+md_5> https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/gcc-gcj/
10:25 < dav1d> and see what comes out
10:25 <+md_5> looks fine to me dav1d ....
10:25 < Grum> dav1d: 1000fold% speedup guaranteed
10:25 < dav1d> md_5: yes indeed, and that compiles gcc-gcj...
10:25 < Grum> because then it is 'compiled c'
10:25 <+md_5> wait what
10:25 <+md_5> a package install
10:25 < dav1d> Grum: just out of curiosity
10:25 <+md_5> compiles another package
10:25 < Calinou> inb4 doesn't compile
10:26 < Calinou> inb4 complains about minecraft being proprietary
10:26 < Grum> Calinou: hahah 'headers missing' ;D
10:26 < Calinou> this is GNU, remember
10:26 < dav1d> md_5: it's the AUR *arch user reepository* basically a makefile for pacman (package manager)
10:26 < Calinou> harsh user repository
10:26 < Grum> harsh user repository lover? hurl? ;D
10:26 <+md_5> dav1d suddenly, ubuntu
10:26 < dav1d> Calinou: go back to your clopfics
10:26 < dav1d> md_5: lol no
10:26 <+md_5> lolyes
10:26 < dav1d> gcc 3 on ubuntu
10:26 < dx> dav1d: why don't you compile it, then?
10:26 < dav1d> no thänks
10:26 < Calinou> no u
10:26 <+md_5> gcc (Ubuntu/Linaro 4.7.3-1ubuntu1) 4.7.3
10:26 <+md_5> dav1d lolno
10:26 < dav1d> dx: already going for ~45-50 mins
10:27 < dav1d> dx: just takes forever
10:27 < Drainedsoul> doesn't like every Linux ship with old GCC, and then you have to install a newer one if you want it?
10:27 < dx> dav1d: oh ok.
10:27 < Calinou> Drainedsoul: no
10:27 < Drainedsoul> that was my experience with CentOS/GCC 4.8.0
10:27  * md_5 points at 4.7.3
10:27 < dav1d> uups
10:27 < Calinou> dav1d: we know you read clopfics, you even quoted one :D
10:27 < dav1d> gcc 4.8.1-1
10:27 <+md_5> screw gcc
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10:27 <+md_5> clang 4eva
10:27 < dav1d> I don't care what compiler I have
10:27 < dav1d> I don't use it anyways
10:27 < dx> Calinou: ಠ_ಠ
10:28 < Drainedsoul> if Clang didn't seem to have a million gotchas for Windows, I'd use it
10:28 < dav1d> onlything I need is C, barely
10:28 <+md_5> uh
10:28 <+md_5> msvc on windows
10:28 < Drainedsoul> fuck
10:28 < Drainedsoul> MSVC
10:28 < dav1d> llvm on windows lul
10:28 < Calinou> MSVC ftl
10:28 <+md_5> fine
10:28 < Grum> that is actually the best IDE on windows
10:28 <+md_5> Intel C comoiler then
10:28 < Calinou> but well, it is fast
10:28 < Grum> from what i hear
10:28 < Calinou> LOL INTEL COMPILER
10:28 < Calinou> md_5: do, dodododilo
10:28 < Calinou> fff
10:28 < Calinou> typ
10:28 < dav1d> Grum: visual studio?
10:28 < Calinou> typo*
10:28 < Grum> dav1d: yeah:(
10:29 < dav1d> never tried it, but I heared the same
10:29 < Drainedsoul> if you want a compiler for Windows with C++11 support, it's like GCC or bust it seems
10:29 <+md_5> Calinou why the intel hate?
10:29 < Calinou> md_5: because intel hate
10:29 < dav1d> lol intel
10:29 < Calinou> don't let amd die, don't use overpricedtel compiler
10:29 < dav1d> (intel graphics)
10:29 < Calinou> dav1d: they have a decent linux driver
10:29 < dav1d> DIE AMD!
10:29 < Calinou> the only decent open source one
10:29 < dav1d> Calinou: you mean ... mesa
10:29 < Calinou> yeah and?
10:29 < Grum> if someone ever forces me to use windows and visualstudio i might be able to use it; http://www.viemu.com/ ;D
10:29 < Calinou> rock solid open source driver :P
10:30 < dav1d> yeah, but ever tried there windows drivers? xD
10:30 < Calinou> Grum: don't you use windows already
10:30 < Grum> only $99 to be able to use an ide .. cheap! ;D
10:30 < dav1d> try to compile dat shader!
10:30 < Calinou> dav1d: they are decent too, but have a shitty GUI :P
10:30 < Grum> Calinou: i refuse to dev on it
10:30 <+md_5> lol vi
10:30 < dav1d> void main() {};
10:30 < dav1d> ^ compiles even on amd
10:30 < Calinou> Grum: what OS do you use for dev then
10:30 < Calinou> inb4 OS X
10:30 < dav1d> intel, nop gtfo
10:30 < Grum> Calinou: osx as i said 20 mins ago
10:30 < dav1d> Grum: I can get it for free o/
10:30 < Calinou> inafter OS X
10:30 < Grum> dav1d: whoo :p
10:30 < dav1d> Grum: I think the VS 2012 was free?
10:30 < dav1d> *thought
10:31 < Drainedsoul> wat
10:31 < dav1d> (students get it for free, at least on our university)
10:31 <+md_5> just become a student m8
10:31 < Calinou> VS is free
10:31 < Calinou> lol, "student"
10:31 < Calinou> md_5: hello pentium user
10:31 <+md_5> my p4 is still sitting in my cupboard
10:31 < Grum> dav1d: talking about the vi-emulator for visual studio ;)
10:31 < dav1d> gonna try pdfshuffler -.-
10:31 <+md_5> before that it was a p3
10:31 < dav1d> Grum: ahh
10:31 <+md_5> and then a p2
10:31 < Grum> i trully cannot code without it
10:31 <+md_5> good times
10:31 < dav1d> Grum: lul? and you use osx?
10:31 < Grum> non-vi == pain :(
10:31 < dav1d> for development
10:31 < Grum> dav1d: yes
10:31 < dav1d> y u no use cheap os with good hardware?
10:32 <+md_5> dav1d what did you want to do?
10:32 < dav1d> if you use vim
10:32 < Calinou> lol, Grum uses vim
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10:32 < AlphaBlend> lol
10:32 < Grum> i actually use intellij ... with ideavim =)
10:32 < Calinou> aren't mojangstas supposed to use stupidj
10:32 < Calinou> erm, stupidij
10:32 < dav1d> md_5: extract a few pdf sites
10:32 < Calinou> oh see
10:32 < Calinou> stupidij
10:32 < AlphaBlend> i use good ol' netbeans
10:32 < dav1d> md_5: then print them, 4 pages / paper
10:32 <+md_5> dinner used netbeans last I checked
10:32 < Grum> Calinou: stupidij compared to? ... failclipse and oldbeans?
10:32 < AlphaBlend> o_o
10:32 <+md_5> uh huh
10:32 < Calinou> Grum: :D
10:32 <+md_5> I can get Windows 8 Embedded Industry now
10:33 <+md_5> thanks Microsoft!
10:33 < Calinou> md_5: s/embedded/clop
10:33 < dav1d> I like intellij!
10:33 < Grum> intellij is by far the superior java IDE
10:33 < Calinou> dav1d edition
10:33 <+md_5> https://www.dreamspark.com/Product/Product.aspx?productid=67
10:33 < dav1d> Calinou: wat?
10:33 < dav1d> I can get windows 8 for 8€
10:33 < dav1d> what a joke
10:33 < Calinou> and windows 7 for 7€?
10:33 < Calinou> windows still sucks for development
10:34 < Grum>  /nod
10:34 < dav1d> I think pdfshuffler works
10:34 <+md_5> https://www.dreamspark.com/Product/Product.aspx?productid=27
10:34  * md_5 wonders what this is
10:34 < dav1d> broken https
10:34 < Calinou> inb4 $1000 text editor
10:35 < AlphaBlend> Calinou: Sucks how? Holy trinity support?
10:35 < dx> "Microsoft Small Basic puts the fun back into computer programming"
10:35 < Calinou> AlphaBlend: huh
10:35 < AlphaBlend> By holy trinity I mean Windows, OSX, and Linux :D
10:35 < dx> """fun"""
10:35 < Calinou> """programming"
10:35 < Calinou> AlphaBlend: oh
10:35 < Calinou> thought you were talking about the APUs
10:35 < dx> 'holy trinity' wat
10:36 < AlphaBlend> i don't know what an APU is, i'm a nub
10:36 < dx> did you make up that term
10:36 < AlphaBlend> yes
10:36 < dx> good job
10:36 < AlphaBlend> ty
10:36 < Calinou> APU = accelerated processing unit
10:36 < Calinou> AMD's CPUs with an IGP, basically
10:36 < AlphaBlend> ohh
10:36 < zutto> i just want to note that the apu's amd makes, are amazing
10:36 < AlphaBlend> how much better are they than an IGP?
10:37 < Calinou> zutto: when fglrx works :P
10:37 < Calinou> AlphaBlend: an IGP is an integrated graphics processor
10:37 < AlphaBlend> I have an AMD CPU, and yet I do not know this ;p
10:37 < zutto> Calinou: mainly for making extremely cheap desktops for people ;p
10:37 < Calinou> most intel CPUs and some AMD CPUs have it
10:37 < Calinou> zutto: not really "extremely cheap"
10:38 < zutto> :| its really cheap compared to what it was before
10:38 < AlphaBlend> Calinou: Indeed, and my IGP is an ATI Radeon 9000, not sure how good or bad that is, I'm not much of a ha rdware guy
10:38 < dx> zutto: you could always have shitty integrated video for a few bucks, the main difference is that now it's less shitty
10:39 < zutto> exactly the reason why its awesome :l
10:39 < dx> heh
10:39 < zutto> most people dont do anything that requires dedicated gpu, other than watch movies
10:39 < dx> yep
10:39 < zutto> and usually integrated gpu's are shit
10:40 < zutto> but last i heard, people were even playing crysis with apu's
10:41 < dx> a friend played crysis with a geforce 7200
10:41 < zutto> oh god
10:41 < zutto> i just got job offer to code java
10:41 < zutto> >_>
10:41 < dx> with lowestest settings and shitty framerate, but still counts as 'playing'
10:41 < zutto> i have removed every trace of java on my cv's and shit
10:41 < zutto> yet, someone still figures that i want to code that shit
10:41 < zutto> dx: with apus, the fps isnt even that bad
10:42 < dx> still lowestest settings :P
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10:42 < zutto> not necessarily!
10:42 < Drainedsoul> I'm going back to school to get my degree since my current job is work from home, my biggest fear is that I'll take classes where I have to code Java
10:43 < dx> loljavafear
10:43 < zutto> yeah, java is something i try to stay away at all cost
10:43 < zutto> but Drainedsoul, i'm pretty sure you can ask your teacher to let you code in some other language
10:44 < Drainedsoul> Perhaps.  I'm hopeful since I was there in 07/08 and they did Java everything, but looking at the curriculum, seems more C/C# now
10:45 < Drainedsoul> I'd prefer C++ so I could do all the assignments with incomprehensible metaprograms, but C# is nice.
10:45 < zutto> c# with mono is quite relaxing to code
10:45 < zutto> too bad, its still not that popular :|
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10:46 < Drainedsoul> I really like C#.  It's probably second fav language.
10:46 < dav1d> ok so can anyone tell me how I print a pdf, but 4 pages / paper?
10:47 < zutto> dav1d: have you tried gimp yet?
10:47 < dav1d> no
10:47 < dav1d> print a pdf with gimp?
10:47 < dav1d> oh fail -.
10:47 < dav1d> -.-
10:47 < zutto> i'm pretty sure you can ;o
10:48 < dav1d> chromium can print it, but I have to select my printer first, before I can choose that option
10:48 < dav1d> thanks anyways
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10:48 < dx> i've opened pdfs with inkscape before :D
10:48 < dav1d> high quality greyscale...
10:49 < dav1d> lol looks horrbile
10:49 < dx> never trust printers with "high quality"
10:49 < dx> well, actually, never trust printers
10:49 < dav1d> :(
10:49 < dav1d> pages are too small
10:49 < dav1d> dammit
10:49 < Calinou> AlphaBlend: must be insanely old
10:49 < dx> increase dpi?
10:49 < Calinou> <zutto> i just got job offer to code java
10:49 < Calinou> be happy
10:49 < Calinou> in france you would get no job
10:50 < Calinou> and dav1d would get ho...
10:50 < Calinou> nothing
10:50 < Drainedsoul> yeah not only would you get no job but you'd be living in France, crappy deal
10:50 < Calinou> lol
10:50 < Calinou> haters gonna hate
10:50 < Calinou> *insert gif of ponies jumping into an hole here*
10:51 < Drainedsoul> I'm Canadian so the Quebecois ruined whatever good will I might've had towards France
10:51 < Drainedsoul> say what you want about Quebecois/France affiliations etc., the fact remains they left them here for us to deal with
10:51 < Drainedsoul> gdmt
10:52 < Calinou> s/gdmt/jim morrison forever
10:52 < Calinou> Architect spotted
10:52 < dav1d> dx: I can't
10:52 < dav1d> at least I see no option
10:53 < dav1d> trying gimp now
10:53 < dx> dav1d: hm, printing on linux? last time i did that, all i had was a generic printing driver with almost no options :(
10:53 < dav1d> yeah linux
10:53 < dav1d> I have the hp drivers installed
10:53 < dav1d> my printer is fully supported
10:53 < dav1d> hp ftw
10:53 < Calinou> hp has decent printers, i heard
10:53 < Calinou> but not the cheapest ones
10:54 < dx> no such thing as "decent printer"
10:54 < Calinou> everyone knows that cartridges = dav1d :D
10:54 < dav1d> wat?
10:54 < dx> is Calinou drunk?
10:54 < Calinou> no u
10:54 < dav1d> hp is cheap
10:54 < dav1d> I got that printer for ~45€
10:54 < dav1d> with scanner
10:54 < dav1d> and both are really good
10:55 < dx> and yeah, their business is selling really cheap printers and really expensive ink
10:55 < dav1d> I can live with that
10:55 < dav1d> not printing that much, more scanning
10:55 < dav1d> gah this pisses me off
10:56 <+md_5> so
10:56 < zutto> just whatever you do, stay away from xerox printers
10:56 <+md_5> is anyone else worried
10:56 <+md_5> I want to know where 1.6 pre release is
10:56 <+md_5> I really hope there is one today :(
10:56 < dav1d> maybe evince
10:57 < dx> why do we care about 1.6 again?
10:57 < dav1d> evince <3
10:57 < dx> i heard it has horses
10:57 < dx> the most requested feature ever
10:57 < Calinou> zutto: inb4 reference to RMS
10:58 < Calinou> dx: s/horses/ponies
10:58 < dx> ಠ_ಠ
10:58 < Grum> because you want resourcepacks :P
10:58 < dav1d> yep evince does what I want!
10:58 < zutto> Calinou: no, just alot bad expiriences with xeroxes printers
10:58 < dav1d> awesome
10:58 < dx> dav1d: woo
10:58 < zutto> i used to work at building that had 17 big ass xerox printers
10:59 < zutto> there was weeks when none of those worked
10:59 < zutto> and xerox's support is shit
10:59 < zutto> only thing they're good at, is delivering and installing the product
10:59 < Grum> and making you sign a service contract
10:59 < zutto> ^that
10:59 < Grum> which is sortof the only thing they make money of :p
10:59 < zutto> everything was good when we had contract with canon
11:00 < zutto> but no, xerox stepped in and big guys saw that they were cheaper :p
11:00 < Grum> and you wonder why they deliver a shitty flakey product?
11:00 < Grum> because if they did push out a stable product, no-one would have their service contracts
11:00 < zutto> yeah
11:00 < zutto> but it was just constant pain in the ass
11:00 < Grum> i love how the: 'its cheaper because its crap' flies higher than: 'oh this works but is 50% more expensive'
11:00 < Grum> managers will ALWAYS pick the first one
11:01 < Grum> 'MOAR CHEAP IS BETTAR' .... but not in the long way ;(
11:01 < Grum> s/way/run/
11:01 < zutto> yep
11:02 <+md_5> xerox is nice as a service provider
11:02 <+md_5> just sayin'
11:02 < Grum> obviously, as that is what you pay for
11:02 < Grum> so they better 'make that worth your while'
11:02 <+md_5> well
11:03 <+md_5> when you need a few thousand dollars of printing each day
11:03 < Grum> else someone might actually complain about the shithouses they call printers
11:03  * zutto has eternal hate for xerox!
11:03 <+md_5> its either them or ricoch
11:03 <+md_5> in australia anyway
11:05 < dav1d> wohooo cups runs over https 
11:05 <+md_5> dav1d is dav1d.de your domain?
11:05 < dav1d> no wonder I didn't "http://localhost:631" errored
11:05 < dav1d> md_5: yes
11:05 < dav1d> md_5: why you're asking?
11:05 < dav1d> *are you
11:06 <+md_5> cause I noticed brott had a dav1d.de host
11:06 < dav1d> md_5: yeah :)
11:06 < dav1d> md_5: we finally set a rdns, he uses a znc hosted on my vps
11:07 <+md_5> I run 40-ish something bouncers, mainly on EsperNet
11:07 <+md_5> which I think is nice given I started like 2 months ago
11:07 < dav1d> md_5: yeah seen that
11:08 < dav1d> md_5: I host 4 :P
11:08 < dav1d> but only for friends/nice ppl :P
11:09 < dav1d> LOL
11:09 < dav1d> gcc-gcj fuck you, seriously
11:09 < Calinou> of course
11:09 < Calinou> the GNU weight®
11:09 < dav1d> ==> ERROR: Makepkg was unable to build gcc-gcj.
11:09 < dav1d> ==> Restart building gcc-gcj ? [y/N]
11:09 < dav1d> Calinou: ^
11:09 < dav1d> -.-
11:09 < dav1d> lol
11:09 < dav1d> LOL
11:09 < dav1d> gcc segfaulted
11:09 < dav1d> awesome
11:09 < dav1d> makes it worth it
11:10 < Calinou> harsh linux®
11:10 < dav1d> well pdfshuffler worked and installed in 1min -.-
11:10 < Drainedsoul> when your compiler segfaults it's like the worst feeling in the world
11:10 < dav1d> no the best, if it's gcc
11:10 < dav1d> fuck yeah, I did it!
11:11 < dav1d> (making dmd segfault is relativly easy :( )
11:11 < Drainedsoul> trivial typedefs involving types deduced from expressions involving variadic parameter packs segfault GCC, it's annoying
11:11 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: submitted a bugreport?
11:11 < dav1d> nothing should crash a compiler
11:11 < dav1d> especially segfault
11:12 < Drainedsoul> yeah it's annoying, but no I didn't submit a bug report, I just kludged a workaround and moved on
11:13 < Drainedsoul> but yeah I have the dump and stuff saved
11:13 < Drainedsoul> typedef decltype(func(std::forward<Args>(args)...)) return_type;
11:13 < Drainedsoul> that line, GCC does not like
11:16 < dav1d> g++ :P
11:16 < dav1d> gcc forwards it to the cpp backend
11:16 < Drainedsoul> I have the bad habit of calling the whole toolchain GCC
11:16 < dav1d> yeah, I force myself to not do it
11:16 < dav1d> ^^
11:17 <+md_5> just use clang
11:17 < dav1d> well gcc isn't wrong, gcc forwards it to the correct backend
11:17 <+md_5> problem solved
11:17 < dav1d> md_5: why should clang be better?
11:17 < dav1d> (except error messages)
11:17 < Drainedsoul> I want to use Clang super badly, but I can't find a single doc that talks about Clang on Windows without saying it can't do a bunch of things
11:17 < dav1d> gcc even optimises a tiny bit better
11:17 < Drainedsoul> with those things ranging from compiling 64-bit binaries (wut) to linking against certain libraries
11:17 <+md_5> clang will get there
11:17 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: llvm on windows hasn't full support, mainly exceptions
11:18 < dav1d> llvm on windows has also no big sponsors
11:18 < Drainedsoul> yeah, I want a compiler I can use between platforms, since I usually build on Linux and Windows
11:18 < dav1d> e.g. apple invested a lot into llvm but only for well, not for windows
11:18 < dav1d> nvidia, too, iirc
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11:19 < dav1d> the shader compiler uses llvm, well that's a special case though
11:20 < Drainedsoul> I really don't understand how Microsoft has so much money but can't make a half decent C++ compiler
11:20 <+md_5> >implying msvc is bad
11:20 < dav1d> works for microsoft (tm)
11:20  * md_5 runs
11:21 < Calinou> msvc is fast, compiles fast
11:21 < Calinou> but sucks
11:21 < Drainedsoul> the last time I used MSVC it couldn't parse a catch all block inside a variadic template function, it confused the ... in catch (...) with a parameter pack expansion
11:21 < Drainedsoul> I abandoned ship at once
11:22 < Drainedsoul> I'd only use MSVC if I needed to write a CLR module with a lot of C API interop
11:22 < Drainedsoul> because C++/CLI is pretty cool
11:24 < Calinou> ITT: EVERYTHING SUCKS!!!
11:24 < dav1d> gtg cya!
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12:14 < eddyb> dav1d: clang has better LTO
12:14 < eddyb> and maybe vectorization, but I'm not sure
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14:28 < dav1d> eddyb: do you think that it has a better LTO or do you know that
14:28 < eddyb> I know for sure
14:28 < dav1d> in general clang is a tiny bit slower than gcc
14:29 < eddyb> and I also know why... the llvm bytecode is still manipulable, even in intermediary "object files"
14:30 < dx> llvm seems to be fun
14:30 < dav1d> llvm is fun
14:31 < dav1d> (from what I understand xD)
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18:42 < ffmdr> does anyone know what is causing player screen to shake when poisoned?
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18:43 < ffmdr> could it be other internal potion not visible in inventory?
18:44 < shoghicp> ffmdr: damage taken
18:44 < ffmdr> shoghicp: so negative health updates?
18:45 < shoghicp> yes
18:45 < shoghicp> but
18:45 < shoghicp> I think that is sent
18:45 < shoghicp> (the shaking)
18:45 < shoghicp> over an entity status
18:46 < ffmdr> hmm
18:46 < ffmdr> status = ENTITY_HURT
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19:05 < ffmdr> can't track this
19:06 < ffmdr> tracked to EntityLiving#attackEntityFrom so far
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19:23 < ffmdr> shoghicp: any ideas?
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19:25 < shoghicp> ffmdr: I you want Bukkit support, you should go to a bukkit-related channel
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19:25 < ffmdr> I am searching for camera shaking
19:26 < ffmdr> in client
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19:35 < ffmdr> meh
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19:39 <+pdelvo> lol
19:39 <+pdelvo> who is pdelvo-??
19:40 <+pdelvo> lol. my bouncer is working again
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19:59 <+SirCmpwn> health update packet causes the screen shaking
19:59 <+SirCmpwn> whenever player health is reduced
19:59 <+SirCmpwn> ffmdr: 
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20:29 < timeshifter> anyone know a ballpark estimate of how long the vanilla worldgen takes to create each chunk, on average?
20:29 < timeshifter> an entire vertical chunk, not just a 16^3 piece
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20:59 < TRocket_> timeshifter: what spec machine are we looking at? my laptop with OC'd i5 and 500MB/s RW ssd takes about 1/8 of a friends non-ssd gaming pc with better cpu...
20:59 < TRocket_> to generate an entire world that is
21:00 < timeshifter> lol
21:00 < timeshifter> 3.2ghz phenom 2, 10k hdd
21:00 < timeshifter> ssd wasn't in the budget :(
21:02 < timeshifter> i'm just looking for a point of comparison for my algorithm
21:02 < timeshifter> which is currently generating a 16x256x16 area in ~0.047s
21:04 < TRocket_> could you plug your algorithm into bukkit (multiverse?) as a world generator and compare the times for an entire world
21:05 < timeshifter> that's the plan
21:05 < timeshifter> lol
21:05 < timeshifter> i still need to dive in to the whole "accomplishing that" aspect
21:05 < dav1d> I generate my chunks in 3ms o/
21:05 < timeshifter> \o
21:05 < dav1d> (no terrain gen)
21:06 < dav1d> terrain → vertices
21:06 < timeshifter> so.. you *draw* your chunks in 3ms?
21:06 < dav1d> no
21:06 < dav1d> drawing is faster
21:06 < dav1d> I draw 441 chunks in ~5ms
21:06 < dav1d> depending on terrain and gpu
21:07 < dav1d> but I need ~3ms to generate out of terrain (blocks) vertices, which can be drawn
21:07 < dav1d> 3ms != in a desert
21:07 < dav1d> having that atm in jungles
21:09 < TRocket_> timeshifter: maybe fork cleanroom gen https://github.com/nvx/CleanroomGenerator ?
21:09 < TRocket_> and "modify"(break) it
21:10 < timeshifter> but i dun wanna break anything, lol
21:10 < timeshifter> it's not a huge deal, i'm just curious what the vanilla algo performs like
21:11 < timeshifter> since that's what i'm up against, basically
21:11 < TRocket_> yeah
21:11 < TRocket_> mcdevs should probably build a set of benchmark standard utillities
21:12 < timeshifter> that'd be nice
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21:21 <+SirCmpwn> I remember running performance tests on my flatland generator
21:21 <+SirCmpwn> which supports the same stuff as vanilla with custom generator strings
21:22 <+SirCmpwn> I think it was something like a hundred million chunks generated in 4, 5 seconds
21:22 < dav1d> well, generating flatland chunks is extremly easy and basically only memcpy
21:23 < dav1d> generate one, memcpy around
21:24 < dav1d> so you benchmark memcpy..
21:25 <+SirCmpwn> actually, that's a great idea
21:25 <+SirCmpwn> why the hell do I actually generate each one seperately
21:25 < Drainedsoul> which is usually a compiler intrinsic
21:26 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: it still has to be done
21:27 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: oh :D, you don't copy it around?^^
21:27 < dav1d> but make sure you keep the original chunk private
21:27 <+SirCmpwn> indeed
21:27 <+SirCmpwn> maybe I was planning for the future when I might be generating structures like villages
21:27 <+SirCmpwn> someone submitted a really shitty pull request once that added village "support" to C.N flatland
21:28 < Drainedsoul> I'm not saying that it doesn't have to be done, I'm saying that it's inline highly optimized assembly, which makes the "performance" even more trivial
21:28 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: have you seen the glibc implementationß
21:28 < dav1d> *?
21:28 < dav1d> handcrafted asm for basically every sse version
21:28 <+SirCmpwn> https://github.com/SirCmpwn/Craft.Net/pull/164
21:28 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: you can still use the original chunk to populate the world, then put the villages ontop
21:29 < Drainedsoul> I haven't, but I've seen the source for the glibc implementation of strlen
21:29 <+SirCmpwn> well, vanilla flatland supports more than just villages now, dav1d
21:29 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: makes no difference
21:29 <+SirCmpwn> they also support rivers, trees, mineshafts, etc
21:29 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: copy, then change
21:29  * SirCmpwn shrugs
21:29 < dav1d> you replace blocks feom the template
21:29 < dav1d> *from
21:29 <+SirCmpwn> at that point, what kind of performance gain are you even really getting?
21:29 < dav1d> faster than generating structures, then generating blocks aorund
21:30 < dav1d> it's also easier
21:30 < dav1d> you don't have to keep track "is this inside or outside the mineshaft"
21:31 <+SirCmpwn> I think C.N might be my most committed-to repository
21:31 <+SirCmpwn> 606 commits
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21:32 <+SirCmpwn> next best is KnightOS, 362
21:34 < dav1d> 827commits BraLa o/
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22:04 <+SirCmpwn> I've been working with another KnightOS contributor to decide on a versioning scheme based on git
22:05 <+SirCmpwn> our version numbers will be "tag+ahead/shorthash" - git tag, commits ahead of tag, and the first 8 characters of the commit hash
22:05 <+SirCmpwn> with a * at the end for a dirty working directory
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22:06 <+SirCmpwn> I think that'll result in more frequent commits to ensure that we have an idea of what changes might have caused someone's problems
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02:20 < Seegee> Hey there
02:21 < Seegee> so I have a quick qquestion about multicraft
02:21 < Seegee> and other minecraft panles
02:21 < Seegee> can a user not just upload a malacious jar file...?
02:21 <+sadimusi> most of them don't allow custom jar files anymore
02:22 <+sadimusi> but I guess there are still a few with an upload option and no proper multi-user setup
02:23 < Seegee> Do they even "verify" the jar?
02:23 < Seegee> At all?
02:23 <+sadimusi> how would you even do that?
02:23 <+sadimusi> I mean the whole point is to upload modified jars
02:24 < Seegee> How would you exploit it? Create a jar that opens a backconnection to another server
02:25 < Seegee> And then use netcat to remotely access that server that the minecraft server is hosted on
02:25 <+sadimusi> no, how you would verify it
02:25 < Seegee> Well you cant
02:25 < Seegee> Thats what I thought...
02:25 <+sadimusi> exploiting it is easy as long as all servers run as the same user
02:25 < Seegee> I was just wondering if they did... at all...
02:26 <+sadimusi> as I said, most of them only allow preinstalled vanilla and bukkit jars
02:26 <+sadimusi> but you could probably still add a malicious plugin
02:26 < Seegee> Well you would need some sort of exploit in bukkit to do that most likley
02:27 <+sadimusi> why? you can use everything java offers
02:27 < Seegee> You can access the filesystem through a bukkit plugin?
02:27 < Seegee> ...
02:27 <+sadimusi> sure
02:27 <+sadimusi> I've seen some hosters only providing preinstalled plugins as well
02:28 <+sadimusi> but if you hid your exploit in a useful plugin you could probably get it approved
02:28 < Seegee> I have been wondering about this for a REALLY long time...
02:28 <+sadimusi> the only sensible option really is to use a user per server, but I'm not sure how many of the hosters use that
02:28 <+sadimusi> the one I used to host on certainly didn't
02:28 < Seegee> I think most hosts run all the servers as one user
02:29 < Seegee> I mean... I am trying to start my own hosting company using TCAdmin, and it makes me scared how insecure some of this stuff looks.
02:30 <+sadimusi> would you only host minecraft?
02:30 < Seegee> Well no
02:30 < Seegee> I got lots of source games setup
02:30 < Seegee> Those worry me even more... I think users can edit the startup scripts of the games
02:31 <+sadimusi> and TCA runs everything as the same user? that's insane!
02:31 < Seegee> yea I know
02:31 < Seegee> I think there is an option to run each server as its own user
02:32 <+sadimusi> you should certainly use that
02:32 < Seegee> I should... 
02:32 < Seegee> What does multicraft do
02:32 < Seegee> Run them as the same user?
02:32 <+sadimusi> I'm not familiar with multicraft
02:33 <+AndrewPH> sadimusi: the host i use for my vps provides minecraft hosting. they provision one vps per server.
02:33 <+sadimusi> "Multicraft allows every server to be run as its own system user so the server processes can't interfere with each other."
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02:34 < Seegee> +AndrewPH, doesn't seem too efficient...
02:34 < Seegee> But a good solution
02:34 <+sadimusi> of course virtualization would be an option, but I guess it's too expensive
02:34 <+AndrewPH> Seegee: they turn a profit so I'm guessing it works
02:35 < Seegee> What happens when someone uploads a plugin onto my server
02:35 < Seegee> with this in it
02:35 < Seegee> Runtime.getRuntime().exec("rm -rf ../);  
02:36 <+sadimusi> if bukkit runs under their user, nothing
02:36 < Seegee> But TCA default is running as same user xD
02:36 <+sadimusi> then all your servers are gone :)
02:37 <+sadimusi> there are probably a few sandboxing options for java, but that's more of a band-aid fix
02:37 < Seegee> Runtime.getRuntime().exec("wget local root exploit");  
02:39 <+sadimusi> use a stable OS and you should be fine
02:39 <+sadimusi> there are lots of web hosting companies out there allowing you to ssh into their servers
02:40 < Seegee> Oh I know that
02:40 <+sadimusi> using the java security manager to disable Runtime.exec might still be a good idea
02:40 < Seegee> Probbaly...
02:41 <+sadimusi> there are certainly other attack vectors, but this one would probably get used by script kiddies the most
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03:04 <+SirCmpwn> sadimusi: status of burger updates?
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03:05 <+sadimusi> still no progress
03:05 <+sadimusi> when will 1.6 come out?
03:05 <+SirCmpwn> mojang has said some things that make me think "soon"
03:06 <+SirCmpwn> example: https://twitter.com/Dinnerbone/status/348889854727307268
03:07 <+ammar2> soon ™
03:08 <+SirCmpwn> ammar2: Mojang Time, unlike Valve Time, is usually about two weeks before they really should have released
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03:31 < shoghicp> SirCmpwn: and that law is stronger in Minecraft: Pocket Edition
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12:26 <+Scootabyte> woops
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19:22 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: There's an option now to show just the commit summary, as request in your ticket #2
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19:23 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: wooohoo!
19:24 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: There was something you wanted me to add that required polling wasn't there?
19:24 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: Celery (background workers) are implemented and live (used for password reset emails), so it's a possibility now on a limited basis.
19:25 <+Prf_Jakob> Hmm I can't remember
19:26 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: where is the option btw?
19:26 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: I can't find it
19:26 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: On the hook page, last on the list
19:26 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: "Title Only"
19:26 <+Prf_Jakob> ah, thanks
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19:30 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: are you going to do IRC side channel config=?
19:32 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: Absolutely, I have so much I want to refactor and so little time
19:33 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: If you look at Utopia (the IRC framework) it's been completely rewritten into a nice, even based form.
19:33 < TkTech> *event
19:33 < TkTech> I just haven't had time to move the notifico.bots project over to it
19:33 < TkTech> There's also other stuff in dev which took a very long time.
19:34 < TkTech> Hooks now are custom Lua blocks, which are dispatched over celery and run in sandboxed background workers
19:34 < TkTech> So you can do pretty much anything with them
19:34 <+Prf_Jakob> cool cool
19:34 <+Prf_Jakob> Lua?
19:35 < TkTech> "Hooks" in the code are now "Sources" which advertise a list of events ("New Commit", "New Tag Commit", "Build Failed") and each of those can have a block added to it.
19:35 < TkTech> Aye, lua, easiest to sandbox and integrate with python.
19:35 < TkTech> I tried a bunch of different approaches like a basic template engine like Jinja2 or Mako
19:36 < TkTech> But very few offer sandboxing, and none of the ones that do (like Jinja2) offered real sandboxing (TTL, resource caps (CPU, Mem, stack, handles))
19:36 < TkTech> Lua lets me do some cool things in the future too, like allowing HTTP requests in your hook handler.
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19:37 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: cool coo
19:37 <+Prf_Jakob> cool*
19:38 < TkTech> And of course, everything is half-finished or broken.
19:38 < Calinou> just like ubuntu
19:38 < TkTech> Toss up between paying the bills or working on toys.
19:38 < Calinou> :trollface:
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19:53 < InfinitelyOscill> Heya..
19:54 < InfinitelyOscill> Is redstone logic handled serverside?
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19:54 < dexter0> yes
19:54 < InfinitelyOscill> I'm thinking about making a custom server.. but see no packets for redstone, while logic for it is all over the client and server jars.
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19:56 < InfinitelyOscill> Any explanation for that..?
19:56 < Fador_> ..you just change the blocks and the metadata
19:56 < Fador_> easy as that ;)
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19:56 < dexter0> I don't look at decompiled mine craft code.  If I had to guess, it would be so that the client can simulate it as well while it waits for the server to provide the "truth".
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19:57 < dexter0> common technique used to account for latency in networked games.
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19:58 < qwebirc705644> My computer likes being a bitch.
19:58 < qwebirc705644> I'm InfinitelyOscill..
19:59 < qwebirc705644> Did I miss anything?
19:59 < qwebirc705644> My thing overheats.
19:59 < dexter0> no
19:59 < dexter0> what was the last message you saw?
20:00 < qwebirc705644> Um, it was my message
20:00 < qwebirc705644> So.. HOW is redstone implemented serverside without packets?
20:00 < qwebirc705644> "Any explanations..?"
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20:00 < dexter0> Fador_: ..you just change the blocks and the metadata
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20:01 < dexter0> that's how
20:01 <+Fador> yeah, as I said, no special packets required because you can do it all with those packets =)
20:02 < InfinitelyOscill> I see..
20:02 < InfinitelyOscill> So the logic is done clientside, and the world is just updated serverside.
20:02 <+Fador> like putting down a redstone torch next to a wire would change the metadata of the wire
20:03 < InfinitelyOscill> And if I place a redstone down, next to a torch in your eahmm
20:03 < InfinitelyOscill> hmm
20:03 <+Fador> I don't think the client does any redstone logic on its own
20:03 < dexter0> if it does, it would just be for latency compensation.
20:03 < InfinitelyOscill> O<O
20:03 < InfinitelyOscill> ..
20:03 < InfinitelyOscill> So the logic is server-side
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20:04 < dexter0> the server implements the redstone logic
20:05 < TkTech> Rule 1. Never trust the client.
20:07 < InfinitelyOscill> I assumed it as it was in the client-side code.
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20:09 < InfinitelyOscill> I can't read obfuscated code well. This will be a time to learn :P
20:09 < InfinitelyOscill> afk
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20:53 < Drainedsoul> I think we can generalize "Never trust the client" to "don't trust systems you don't control"
20:53 < Yoshi2|> I support that
20:54 < Yoshi2|> I don't think you as a client should trust the server too much either
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21:21 < InfinitelyOscill> Ello again
21:22 < TRocket> hi
21:23 < InfinitelyOscill> Where can I find a snippet for redstone handling.. psuedo, anything, so I can get an understanding
21:24 <+SirCmpwn> afaik no third party servers (except for bukkit) support redstone
21:24 <+SirCmpwn> no, spout has basic (and incorrect) support
21:25  * InfinitelyOscill sighs
21:25 < InfinitelyOscill> Naturally.
21:25 < InfinitelyOscill> If it COULD be implemented..
21:25 <+SirCmpwn> if it could be implemented what
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21:36 < Yoshi2> it can be implemented, it's just a matter of "Do I want to implement it RIGHT NOW?"
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21:38 < InfinitelyOscill> This computer..
21:39 < Yoshi2> InfinitelyOscill: redstone can be implemented, it is just a matter of "Do I want to implement it right now?"
21:39 < InfinitelyOscill> Hmm
21:40 < InfinitelyOscill> Looking closely at their code..
21:40 < InfinitelyOscill> it appears it is reversed from the original server
21:40 < InfinitelyOscill> more like applied..
21:41 < Yoshi2> I do suggest holding off the idea of redstone until your server supports interaction/functions for blocks
21:42 < InfinitelyOscill> I know, I am not implementin it.
21:42 < InfinitelyOscill> I am like.. hmm.. just looking to look??
21:42 < InfinitelyOscill> :P
21:45 < InfinitelyOscill> http://pastebin.com/VVNtm1JJ http://pastebin.com/HNbv08fe
21:45 < InfinitelyOscill> Compare those.
21:48 < InfinitelyOscill> A rewrite essentially.
21:48 < Yoshi2> one uses an automatically reverse-engineered version of the other code as the base
21:49 < InfinitelyOscill> Doesn't look like a base, though since we only know what is in  the code
21:49 < InfinitelyOscill> Taking the classes from MC itself is the best idea.
21:49 < InfinitelyOscill> Until we know more about the mechanics to make the code unique.
21:49 < InfinitelyOscill> Am I right?
21:50 < Yoshi2> it is definitely using the reverse-engineered code of minecraft as a base
21:50 < InfinitelyOscill> Yep.
21:50 < InfinitelyOscill> I told ya.
21:50 < Yoshi2> look further down, on line 105
21:50 < Yoshi2> func_82534_e
21:50 < InfinitelyOscill> Yep..
21:51 < InfinitelyOscill> Line 114  in Bukkit code..
21:51 < InfinitelyOscill> Is the same.. essentially.
21:51 -!- ryan-c [~ryan@srv1.turboslow.net] has joined #mcdevs
21:52 < InfinitelyOscill> I got the decompiled code of the 1.5.2 client and server
21:52 -!- iBotPeaches [ibotpeache@pdpc/supporter/student/ibotpeaches] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:52 < InfinitelyOscill> The Bukkit code is simply a rename with sauce on top, but with our knowledge all we can do.. are renames.
21:52 < ryan-c> Does anyone know if there is a way to disable protocol encryption on a minecraft server? I would like to try building a bandwidth saving proxy that compresses the connection.
21:53 < InfinitelyOscill> Ryan, you may have to change the handshake all together.
21:53 < InfinitelyOscill> And it'll be insecure and a LOT of rewriting..
21:53 < InfinitelyOscill> Why not try compressing the encryption packets itself.
21:53 < InfinitelyOscill> For example,
21:54 < ryan-c> InfinitelyOscill: Compressing encrypted data isn't possible.
21:54 < InfinitelyOscill> M mistake
21:54 < InfinitelyOscill> I mean like...
21:54 < InfinitelyOscill> Compress the packet after construction.
21:54 < InfinitelyOscill> send it and then deflate it on the other end
21:54 < ryan-c> That would require a server mod, right?
21:55 < InfinitelyOscill> Yup
21:55 < InfinitelyOscill> And a client one I believe.
21:55 < InfinitelyOscill> Handshake packet made -> Compressed -> Sent <- Recieved <- Decompress <- Process
21:55 < ryan-c> Has someone written code that will man-in-the-middle the handshake to get at the plaintext?
21:55 < InfinitelyOscill> Hmm..
21:55 < ryan-c> From my reading of the protocol encryption this should be possible
21:56 < InfinitelyOscill> You'll have to have 3 servers involved..
21:56 < ryan-c> right, the minecraft server, and two proxies
21:56 < InfinitelyOscill> Yep
21:56 < InfinitelyOscill> One from you, the official server, a client.
21:57 < InfinitelyOscill> So you can't MITM..
21:57 < InfinitelyOscill> LOL, the encryption code is even out in the open.
21:57 < ryan-c> http://www.wiki.vg/Protocol_Encryption
21:57 < InfinitelyOscill> We have the source.
21:57 < InfinitelyOscill> You can't skip the rsa.
21:57 < ryan-c> oh, you said it *is*
21:57 < Yoshi2> you can try to mitm the server, but you will be limited to accounts which you have access to
21:57 < InfinitelyOscill> Wait
21:57 < ryan-c> I can intercept the RSA
21:57 < InfinitelyOscill> I know 
21:57 < InfinitelyOscill> lol
21:57 < InfinitelyOscill> I said wait for a reason
21:58 < InfinitelyOscill> For example, Habbo mmo servers (Habbo has to get re'ed, cracked swfs, protocol, custom sending, packets... hard shit.) can be MITMed.
21:59 < ryan-c> What I want to set up is [server on moderate bandwidth connection] <-> [server proxy] <-> [internet] <-> [client proxy] <-> [client], where client proxy is on a higher bandwidth connection.
21:59 < InfinitelyOscill> Hmm...
21:59 < Yoshi2> MITM in Minecraft with the new authentication method isn't as useful as it used to be
21:59 < ryan-c> a quick skim of the protocol specs seem to indicated that the traffic would compress well
21:59 < InfinitelyOscill> MITM is essentially unusable for cracked.
22:00 < InfinitelyOscill> as it's client server
22:00 < InfinitelyOscill> unless a person is evil
22:00 < ryan-c> I don't have any particular interest in running a cracked server.
22:00 < InfinitelyOscill> Hmm
22:00 < InfinitelyOscill> I see.
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22:00 < InfinitelyOscill> You still need 3 points for a mitm.
22:00 < ryan-c> yeah, but that's fine
22:01 < InfinitelyOscill> Why not just compress the outgoing traffic from the minecraft server, as it goes out
22:01 < InfinitelyOscill> Like, no modding needed.. but deflation is a must
22:01 < Yoshi2> encrypted traffic compresses horribly
22:01 < ryan-c> because it's encrypted which prevents it from being compressed
22:01 < InfinitelyOscill> Ah
22:01 < Yoshi2> AES creates very random data
22:01 < ryan-c> compression works by optimizing on patterns
22:01 < ryan-c> encrypted data has no patterns
22:02 < InfinitelyOscill> Why not compress THEN encrypt
22:02 < ryan-c> well, unless the encyption is weak
22:02 < InfinitelyOscill> Wait stupid idea there.
22:02 < Yoshi2> InfinitelyOscill: now we're back at the start ;)
22:02 < InfinitelyOscill> Lol
22:02 < Yoshi2> compressing before encrypting requires a server mod again
22:02 < InfinitelyOscill> I know
22:02 < InfinitelyOscill> I said stupid idea
22:02 <+SirCmpwn> ryan-c: don't bother with what you're trying to do
22:02 < InfinitelyOscill> xD
22:02 < ryan-c> InfinitelyOscill: It would be easier for me to code an MitM compressing proxy than it would for me to make a mod that does compression within the client and server.
22:03 < InfinitelyOscill> Ryan
22:03 < InfinitelyOscill> MITM wont work
22:03 <+SirCmpwn> compressing encrypted data -> stupid
22:03 < InfinitelyOscill> unless there is a 3rd party
22:03 <+SirCmpwn> compressing plaintext -> introduces vulnerability
22:03 < ryan-c> SirCmpwn: Yes, I know.
22:03 < InfinitelyOscill> And the minecraft servers..
22:03 < InfinitelyOscill> Dont have an implement for a 3rd party
22:04 < InfinitelyOscill> I haven't made a server at all
22:04 < InfinitelyOscill> I am an amateaur in things like networking packets.. well.. implementing them.. I can understand it
22:04 < InfinitelyOscill> But not implement it in code that well
22:04 < ryan-c> SirCmpwn: I'm aware of the issues of compression plaintext - I've written exploits against toy implementations.
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22:04 < InfinitelyOscill> Hmm...
22:05 < InfinitelyOscill> Ryan to remove the handshake
22:05 < InfinitelyOscill> would require rewriting client and server
22:05 < Yoshi2> ah, you can create a proxy without needing a servermod
22:05 < InfinitelyOscill> handshake and encryption classes.
22:05 < InfinitelyOscill> He wants a compressed proxy, Yoshi.
22:06 < Yoshi2> that is also possible
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22:06 < ryan-c> SirCmpwn: 1) I don't care if someone can decrypt my minecraft traffic and 2) The effective exploits against compress-then-encrypt require the attacker to be able to use the client as an encryption oracle which doesn't work on many platforms other than web browsers.
22:06 < InfinitelyOscill> And compression needs deflation on both sides.
22:06 < InfinitelyOscill> So yay
22:06 < InfinitelyOscill> My idea is good there, #2
22:06 < InfinitelyOscill> But
22:06 < InfinitelyOscill> It needs mods.
22:06 <+SirCmpwn> ryan-c: there are more exploits than CRIME, which is what I think you're referring to
22:07 <+SirCmpwn> but according to 1, it doesn't matter
22:07 < InfinitelyOscill> Which require.. rewriting the handshake.
22:07 < ryan-c> SirCmpwn: Besides generic traffic analysis attacks?
22:07 < InfinitelyOscill> But we're talking official minecraft.
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22:07 < Yoshi2> we set the server to offline mode so the proxy can connect to the server as every user who connects to the proxy
22:07 < InfinitelyOscill> Not cracked, the  client verifies with the mc serer
22:07 < InfinitelyOscill> If it was offline it'd be detected by the mc servers
22:08 < InfinitelyOscill> which offlinemode = cracked
22:08 < Yoshi2> the proxy handles all authentication with the users, so there are no problems with users faking other users
22:08 < InfinitelyOscill> The mc servers would know because of an HTTP Post sent..
22:08 < InfinitelyOscill> As I said.
22:08 < ryan-c> so, what i was going to do is implement a proxy that presents it's own public key instead of the server's public key, and re-encrypts everything
22:08 < InfinitelyOscill> For the encryption to work, a key is recieved from the minecraft servers..
22:08 <+SirCmpwn> ryan-c: I'm at work, I don't have enough time to produce a well-researched set of vulnerabilities for something that doesn't matter anyway
22:08 <+SirCmpwn> SMProxy does exactly that, fyi
22:09 <+SirCmpwn> your proxy has to handle authentication for it to work, though
22:09 < InfinitelyOscill> owait
22:09 < InfinitelyOscill> doesnt get it from mc
22:09 < ryan-c> SirCmpwn: SMProxy looks like what I want as a starting point.
22:10 < InfinitelyOscill> If you wanna be official with the servers.. non-cracked.. you can't compress the data
22:10 <+SirCmpwn> ryan-c: you can write plugins for SMProxy that may suit your needs
22:10 < InfinitelyOscill> Using offline mode could work, but I cba to think
22:10 < Yoshi2> technically, there is no such thing as a "cracked" server
22:11 < ryan-c> I'll have a read of the SMProxy code.
22:11 <+SirCmpwn> InfinitelyOscill: look into how SMProxy handles authentication
22:11 < InfinitelyOscill> Cracked meaning not verifying with minecraft.
22:11 < InfinitelyOscill> SirCmpwn, I cba. xD
22:11 <+SirCmpwn> then don't make uninformed statements.
22:11 < InfinitelyOscill> I'm thinking about making a mc server protocol implementation..
22:11 < InfinitelyOscill> [16:10] <InfinitelyOscill> Using offline mode could work, but I cba to think
22:11 < InfinitelyOscill> >cba to think<
22:12 <+SirCmpwn> why make your own, there are already plenty and it's tedious work
22:12 < InfinitelyOscill> I like doing it.
22:12 < InfinitelyOscill> It makes me get better..
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22:12 < ryan-c> SirCmpwn: so, does SMProxy use a static account to authenticate with the minecraft auth servers?
22:12 < InfinitelyOscill> I learn by example.
22:12 <+SirCmpwn> don't learn from minecraft, please
22:12 < InfinitelyOscill> Nono
22:12 < InfinitelyOscill> I mean like
22:12 <+SirCmpwn> ryan-c: SMProxy has two different kinds of authentication, I suppose
22:12 < InfinitelyOscill> The networking
22:13 < InfinitelyOscill> I like the  simple protocol of minecraft
22:13 <+SirCmpwn> ryan-c: if you're running a server behind SMProxy, you can switch it to offline mode and have SMProxy authenticate clients for you (from the server's point of view)
22:13 < InfinitelyOscill> I know java.
22:13 <+SirCmpwn> InfinitelyOscill: yes, don't bloody well use Minecraft to learn
22:13 < Yoshi2> the minecraft protocol is far from simple
22:13 < InfinitelyOscill> I don't=,=
22:13 < Yoshi2> classic minecraft was simple
22:13 <+SirCmpwn> ryan-c: SMProxy also has authentication from a client's perspective, and can draw creds from the lastlogin file or whatever you specify when you start it up
22:13 < InfinitelyOscill> Minecraft is a baby compared to it.
22:13 <+SirCmpwn> ryan-c: I was referring to the former
22:13 < InfinitelyOscill> Yoshi, look at Habbo protocol.
22:14 <+SirCmpwn> InfinitelyOscill: do you know anything other than java
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22:14 < InfinitelyOscill> Hmm
22:14 < InfinitelyOscill> Some C#
22:15 < InfinitelyOscill> Some python (forgot all of it xD)
22:15 < InfinitelyOscill> PHP, medium
22:15 <+SirCmpwn> ryan-c: look into how SMProxy behaves when given --authenticate-clients
22:15 < InfinitelyOscill> Bits and pieces..
22:15 < InfinitelyOscill> I learn coding by looking at code
22:15 < InfinitelyOscill> For example
22:15 < InfinitelyOscill> I didn't get the metadata thing
22:15 < InfinitelyOscill> until I saw psuedo-code
22:15 <+SirCmpwn> InfinitelyOscill: if you learn from Minecraft, you will learn bad things
22:15 < InfinitelyOscill> and I put things I learn  in practice.
22:15 <+SirCmpwn> InfinitelyOscill: write an IRC bot or something
22:16 < InfinitelyOscill> Sir, I've tried that alread
22:16 < InfinitelyOscill> y
22:16 <+SirCmpwn> hell, write an ircd
22:16 <+SirCmpwn> but don't write minecraft software as a learning experience
22:16 < InfinitelyOscill> tried that, stopped at a hello world
22:16 < InfinitelyOscill> I wanna write it as a hobby too
22:16 < InfinitelyOscill> I wanna get noticed.
22:16 <+sadimusi> SirCmpwn: IRC? srsly?
22:16 <+SirCmpwn> I don't want you to get noticed
22:16 < Yoshi2> irc is fun to work with
22:16 <+SirCmpwn> if you get noticed, people will use your code as a reference
22:16 < InfinitelyOscill> I felt like shit at the habbo section
22:16 <+SirCmpwn> sadimusi: burger please
22:17 < InfinitelyOscill> I didn't even get how to use netty
22:17 <+SirCmpwn> wait to get noticed until you actually are worth noticing
22:17 < InfinitelyOscill> Then I looked at the netty docs a week ago
22:17 <+SirCmpwn> otherwise, you hurt the industry as a whole
22:17 < InfinitelyOscill> I can already comprehend networking
22:17 < InfinitelyOscill> From that alone.
22:17 < InfinitelyOscill> Now I know more about encryption,
22:17 < InfinitelyOscill> and can actually read server code.
22:18 < InfinitelyOscill> I'm not learning from Minecraft,
22:18 < InfinitelyOscill> I do it to pass time.
22:18 < InfinitelyOscill> I like coding and seeing it work
22:18 <+SirCmpwn> I find it very difficult to discourage these people, and every time, I end up being right about it
22:18 <+SirCmpwn> it's rather frustrating
22:19 < InfinitelyOscill> Sir: You think that some people don't have what it takes.
22:19 <+SirCmpwn> and I've been right every time
22:19 < InfinitelyOscill> I learn fast, I'm not the type to make a huge contribution
22:19 <+SirCmpwn> we'll see how you progress
22:19 < InfinitelyOscill> the first time I do something..
22:19 < InfinitelyOscill> I like reinventing the wheel sometimes.
22:19 < iBotPeaches> SirCmpwn: sadimusi said he'll get to burger when he finishes his paper
22:20 <+SirCmpwn> iBotPeaches: I am aware of that, I keep reminding him anyway
22:20 <+sadimusi> iBotPeaches: screw that, 1.6 is coming out soon :P
22:20 <+SirCmpwn> ^for that reason
22:21 < TkTech> Yoshi2: Fun in the "I like to whip myself in latex" sense of fun.
22:23 < iBotPeaches> july 1st, ahhh so much stuff to update
22:23 < Yoshi2> TkTech: well, that does sound a little bit like fun
22:23 < iBotPeaches> falling behind in the news
22:23 <+SirCmpwn> In other news, I'll update Craft.Net to support 1.6 (assuming sadimusi is agreeable), but I won't have much development done between then and 1.7
22:23 <+SirCmpwn> I have to reduce my concurrent projects, my actual job is taking up more time now
22:24 < Yoshi2> much more so than the "I like to run against the wall and hit it with my head" kind of fun
22:24 <+SirCmpwn> so I'll be working on KnightOS for a few months instead of C.N, but I'll continue to review PRs and such
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22:51 < TkTech> Yoshi2: Oh my.
22:53 < TRocket> who has mcdevs on github?
22:53 < TRocket> can i be added to the org
22:53 < TRocket> <- my username on gh
22:53 <+sadimusi> TRocket: TkTech 
22:53 < TRocket> thanks
22:53 < TRocket> TkTech: please can i be added to the gh org?
22:54 <+sadimusi> TRocket: what project are you working on?
22:54 < TkTech> TRocket: What project?
22:54 < TkTech> sadimusi: <3
22:54 < TRocket> benchmark standards for mc serves
22:54 < TRocket> *servers
22:56 < TkTech> TRocket: Existing repo? New repo? Project name?
22:58 < TRocket> i had got this working a couple of years ago with a java client spawning players, breaking blocks, etc. The code was on sourceforge...somewhere, i seem to remember it and another project of mine's svn repo got lost in the transition to allura. I'm planning to rewrite it anyway
22:59 < TkTech> Sooooo…project name?
22:59 < TRocket> BenchCraft
23:00 < TkTech> TRocket: https://github.com/mcdevs/BenchCraft
23:00 < TRocket> thanks
23:00 < TkTech> TRocket: You have push, pull, admin
23:01 < TRocket> thanks
23:01 < TRocket> i will try and work on it tomorrow
23:02 < TRocket> as my network switch seems to have died
23:02 < TRocket> and win8 is now using the wifi which it says i have not installed drivers for
23:02 -!- TRocket [~TRocket@82-69-14-167.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:09 < Drainedsoul> I missed SirCmpwn talking down on people again, damn
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--- Day changed mer. juin 26 2013
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00:16 < InfinitePulsing> Hey, 'tis InfinitelyOscill(ating)
00:19  * InfinitePulsing sai hai
00:19 < InfinitePulsing> Anyone..
00:20 <+sadimusi> o/
00:20 < InfinitePulsing> Haylo.
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00:21 < InfinitePulsing> Basically, I'm going to start with my own little pack of Minecraft protocol goodies.
00:21 <+sadimusi> in what language?
00:22 < InfinitePulsing> An encryption, decryption class, and a way to format it.
00:22 < InfinitePulsing> Java.
00:22 < InfinitePulsing> I'll simply make a little encryption suite, no networking at all.
00:22 < InfinitePulsing> Just little things till I get up big, I don't expect myself to make a server for a while.
00:23 < dexter0> why not use BouncyCastle for crypto since you're doing it in Java.
00:23 < InfinitePulsing> I like reinventing the wheel.
00:23 <+sadimusi> your wheel will be slow ;)
00:23 < InfinitePulsing> Sadi, you'll be surprised.
00:23 < InfinitePulsing> I'm only making an encryption class.
00:23 < InfinitePulsing> Like, writeXXX()
00:24 < InfinitePulsing> With other goodies.
00:24 < InfinitePulsing> Anybody like IntelliJ idea?
00:24 < dexter0> best of luck rolling your own crypto...
00:25 < InfinitePulsing> yup..
00:25 < Yoshi2> there is reinventing the wheel, and then there is reinventing the material that wheel is made of ;)
00:26 < InfinitePulsing> It is easy, the cryptography is simple in terms of encode decode.
00:26 <+sadimusi> well, I sure hope you're not going to reimplement AES itself
00:26 < InfinitePulsing> No
00:26 < InfinitePulsing> LOL
00:26 < InfinitePulsing> NOT AES
00:26 < InfinitePulsing> I mean like
00:26 < InfinitePulsing> the writeShort()
00:26 < InfinitePulsing> writeBool()
00:26 < InfinitePulsing> That 'encryption' not 'crypto'
00:26 < InfinitePulsing> At least it was called encoding*
00:27 <+sadimusi> so you're just writing your own CipherStream using the ciphers from the std library?
00:27 < InfinitePulsing> =,=
00:27 < InfinitePulsing> no
00:27 < InfinitePulsing> Ex.
00:27 < InfinitePulsing> Packet1.writebool(true);
00:27 < InfinitePulsing> Packet1.writeInt(1); 
00:27 < InfinitePulsing> etc.
00:28 <+sadimusi> how is that any different from what I just said?
00:28 < InfinitePulsing> Sounds like C++
00:28 < InfinitePulsing> Don't know C++
00:28 < InfinitePulsing> Tried learning it and gave up
00:30 <+sadimusi> I was talking about java
00:30 < InfinitePulsing> afaik java has no std library
00:30 < InfinitePulsing> lol
00:30 <+sadimusi> d API you describe sounds about the same as combining a ObjectOutputStream with a CipherOutputStream
00:30 <+sadimusi> lol?
00:30 < InfinitePulsing> lolno
00:30 <+sadimusi> s/^d/the/
00:31 < InfinitePulsing> LOL.. 
00:32 <+sadimusi> well, just write it and I'll figure out what it is when you're done :)
00:32 < InfinitePulsing> Essentially..
00:32 < InfinitePulsing> hmm
00:32 < InfinitePulsing> A servermessage
00:35 < Yoshi2> well, if you do it right, you can tack on a bit of networking and you'll have a working wrapper for sending encrypted data to a server
00:48 < InfinitePulsing> Curious.
00:48 < InfinitePulsing> Would a bool be stored as a 0 and  1 or (char) 0 / (char) 1
00:49 < InfinitePulsing> Or else there would be no distinction..
00:49 < InfinitePulsing> In the mc protocol (data types)
00:50 <+sadimusi> it's 0x0 and 0x1, no strings
00:52 <+SirCmpwn> InfinitePulsing: your wheel will not only be slow but also be terrible
00:52 <+SirCmpwn> don't do your own crypto, man
00:52 < Yoshi2> in the protocol bools are bytes with the value 0 or 1
00:52 <+SirCmpwn> heh, you gave up learning C++
00:52 <+SirCmpwn> please, do your work in a private manner, InfinitePulsing
00:53 <+SirCmpwn> people might find your repository and learn from you
00:53 <+sadimusi> SirCmpwn: remember how you denied being hostile towards new people in here? :P
00:54 -!- r04r is now known as r04r|away
00:55 <+SirCmpwn> sadimusi: most new people don't say they're going to implement their own crypto and then turn around and ask "Would a bool be stored as a 0 and  1 or (char) 0 / (char) 1"
00:55 <+SirCmpwn> there's a lower limit to my tolerance of ignorance
00:55 <+sadimusi> SirCmpwn: fair enough :)
01:00 < Yoshi2> to be fair, he did say that he only wanted to write his own (what seems like a) cryptostream, which is not as bad as reimplementing AES or something like that
01:00 < InfinitePulsing> Dude
01:01 < InfinitePulsing> It's not a crypto like rs
01:01 < InfinitePulsing> a
01:01 < InfinitePulsing> http://forum.ragezone.com/f353/servermessage-new-crypto-874485/
01:01 < InfinitePulsing> That type of thing.
01:01 <+sadimusi> so more of a reimplementation of ObjectOutputStream
01:01  * InfinitePulsing sigh
01:02 < InfinitePulsing> Is this a class in the official library
01:02 <+SirCmpwn> isn't objectoutputstream binary serialization
01:02 < InfinitePulsing> or a class in the mc server
01:02 <+sadimusi> http://docs.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/io/ObjectOutputStream.html
01:02 < InfinitePulsing> Sir
01:02 < InfinitePulsing> It is.
01:02 < InfinitePulsing> Packet serializing.
01:02 <+SirCmpwn> that's not a good idea.
01:03 < InfinitePulsing> It's a simple class xD.
01:03 < InfinitePulsing> Dude.
01:03 <+sadimusi> that's not really what I understand under packet serializing
01:03 < InfinitePulsing> It's not aes and stuff
01:03 < InfinitePulsing> I mean like
01:03 < InfinitePulsing> packet structures..
01:03 <+SirCmpwn> serializing packets is not a good idea, I mean
01:03 < InfinitePulsing> Sir
01:03 <+SirCmpwn> are you going to use reflection every single time you read or write a packet?
01:03 <+sadimusi> sure it is
01:03 < InfinitePulsing> Just shut your ignorant mouth.
01:03 <+SirCmpwn> serializing in a way similar to objectoutputstream*
01:04 < InfinitePulsing> It's not a good idea as you want me to not contribute.
01:04 < InfinitePulsing> Fix your attitude. I don't like people like you.
01:04 < InfinitePulsing> You're acting  "oh-holier-than-thou"
01:04 < InfinitePulsing> It's not funny, so fix it.
01:04 < InfinitePulsing> Rant = over.
01:05 <+SirCmpwn> if you're going to release code that's badly written and badly designed, it poisons the community as a whole
01:05 <+SirCmpwn> new users see it and learn from it
01:05 < InfinitePulsing> Sir.
01:05 <+SirCmpwn> and I am holier than thou, I've written a hell of a lot of Minecraft-related code
01:05 < InfinitePulsing> I am not incompetent.
01:05 < InfinitePulsing> I don't intend to release pieces of shit code.
01:05 <+sadimusi> SirCmpwn: don't act like you've never released bad code
01:05 < InfinitePulsing> SirCmpwn, fix your attitude.
01:05 < InfinitePulsing> You sound like a narcissistic piece of shit.
01:05 < InfinitePulsing> I never curse unless I mean it.
01:06 <+SirCmpwn> sadimusi: I have, but I usually mark it as unsupported or delete it, or make it clear in some other means that it shouldn't be used
01:06 < InfinitePulsing> Fix yourself, you are not the god of the community.
01:06 <+SirCmpwn> that doesn't take into account code that I don't realize is bad, but I'd appriciate it when that code is pointed out so I can fix it or apply such a marking
01:07 < InfinitePulsing> Just because you write code doesn't mean anything, you want to have things "perfect".
01:07 < InfinitePulsing> Sadi, can you see where my frustration is coming from?
01:07 <+SirCmpwn> InfinitePulsing: you haven't listened to a single word I've said to you this whole time. Maybe you should consider it.
01:08 < InfinitePulsing> At least Sadi explained h(is/er)'s link, and helped me.
01:08 < InfinitePulsing> Sir, that's because you're ignorant.
01:08 <+SirCmpwn> of what?
01:08 < InfinitePulsing> I refuse to listen to you, so frankly dear, I don't give a fuck.
01:08 < InfinitePulsing> You act like you're holier than everyone, stop it. Stop this subtle ego of yours.
01:09 < dexter0> I thought you were finished ranting?
01:09 < InfinitePulsing> I deduce this from only 3/4 dialogues with you.
01:09 < InfinitePulsing> Dexter, "SirCmpwn" is a bit.. pissing me off in short.
01:09 <+SirCmpwn> enough, InfinitePulsing
01:09 <+SirCmpwn> this conversation is no longer productive and it detracts from the content of this channel
01:09 <+SirCmpwn> continue arguing with me privately if you insist
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01:37 < dav1d> lol
01:39 < dav1d> #mcdevs the place for dumb discussions
01:42 <+ammar2> better than no discussions I suppose
01:43 <+sadimusi> "There is no item named 'java/lang/Object.class' in the archive" m(
01:43 <+sadimusi> it's always the smallest things breaking burger :/
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02:07 <+SirCmpwn> sadimusi: so it's fixed?
02:07 <+sadimusi> looks like mob textures and most of the more complex packets are still broken
02:10 <+sadimusi> funny, on my machine it worked fine
02:18 <+sadimusi> I'll try to figure that out another time, for now I just uploaded the output I get locally
02:18 <+sadimusi> the entity textures are still missing, but other than that it looks fine http://b.wiki.vg/1.5.2...1.6
02:18 <+SirCmpwn> sadimusi: 1.6 doesn't actually exist :|
02:18 <+SirCmpwn> oh, shit, yes it does
02:19 <+sadimusi> I was surprised as well
02:19 <+SirCmpwn> looks like I have a busy night ahead of me
02:19 <+SirCmpwn> sadimusi: you mentioned that complex packets are broken, is this packet diff accurate?
02:19 <+sadimusi> yes, this one is from my computer
02:19 <+SirCmpwn> sadimusi: <3
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03:04 < ryan-c> Is the Server ID consistent across restarts in the vanilla server?
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03:12 < ryan-c> oh, now I get it. The serverId field is sent to session.minecraft.net and it's derived in part from the server's public key, so you can't use it on a different server
03:18 < ryan-c> Actually, I'm confused, what's the sessionId and what's serverId? I see serverId as 'hash' here: http://wiki.vg/Protocol_Encryption
03:22 < ryan-c> I guess serverId there is different form the Server ID string.
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03:52 < fragmer_> hm gotta get back to the znc
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04:30 < Eloston> Do you guys know how Minecraft checks if it is running in an applet or not?
04:32 <+SirCmpwn> I don't know that it checks at all, Eloston
04:32 <+SirCmpwn> what effect does it have?
04:39 < Eloston> I don't know of any known effect, just wondering
04:40 < Eloston> And it somehow does check, because when I use my shell script to launch 1.5.2, it says false for applet
04:44 <+SirCmpwn> I see
04:45 <+SirCmpwn> well, I don't know how it checks, sounds like something you'd need to go to the decompiled source for
05:15 <+SirCmpwn> the new chat is even worse than I expected
05:16 <+SirCmpwn> is it not possible to just give the client chat? It has to be formatted into one of the chat "types"?
05:16 <+SirCmpwn> I know there's the `text` json field, but I thought that was being depreciated soon
05:22 < Eloston> meh, I honestly don't know why they want fancy formatting
05:22 < Eloston> chat is fine the way it is now
05:24 <+SirCmpwn> I argued with Gr.m and D.nnerbone at length about how stupid the change is
05:24 <+SirCmpwn> they didn't really listen.
05:37 < Drainedsoul> you'd think with all the things wrong with Minecraft they'd be interested in fixing those
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05:38 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2048 3 files : Started working on /SetGen command.
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06:08 <+SirCmpwn> somehow, I'm not surprised that they started sending an extra ~128 byte packet with useless information for every single entity spawned
06:09 <+SirCmpwn> actually, that information might be useful for cheating
06:09 <+SirCmpwn> https://gist.github.com/SirCmpwn/a82ce86db20b86a177ae
06:11 <+SirCmpwn> why was this necessary considering the (admittedly shitty) entity metadata system already exists (and was not removed)?
06:12 < Drainedsoul> wow sending strings, they couldn't give them corresponding integer values eh
06:15 <+SirCmpwn> fun fact, the 0xCA "Player Abilities" packet is still sent, but the walking/flying speed given there is discarded in favor of an 0x2C "Entity Properties" packet, though both are sent
06:16 < Drainedsoul> who even programs this shit
06:17 < Drainedsoul> I often find myself wondering how someone could sit there and think "ahh yes, this is a sensible design"
06:17 <+SirCmpwn> Dinnerbone.
06:17 <+SirCmpwn> Grum.
06:17 <+SirCmpwn> maybe jens
06:17 <+SirCmpwn> but I'd bet Dinnerbone was behind these changes
06:17 < Drainedsoul> oh?  why's that?
06:17 <+SirCmpwn> he seems to have a thing for appeasing the map makers with features like these
06:18 < Eloston> We should try to promote a whole protocol rewrite to make things cleaner, easier to understand, and nicer on the network (if possible)
06:18 < Drainedsoul> "the map makers"?  How does this appease them?
06:18 <+SirCmpwn> mojang as a whole seems to be behind json chat, fyi. It's only the entity property stuff I'm blaming on Dinnerbone
06:18 <+SirCmpwn> Drainedsoul: custom max health and movement speed for entities, among other things
06:18 < Drainedsoul> ohh okay
06:19 <+SirCmpwn> Eloston: we've tried, many times, going back long before you arrived
06:19 <+SirCmpwn> long before I arrived, even
06:20 < Grum> json chat while being 'a bit large' was just a needed change
06:20 < Grum> we can use something other than json later if 'size is a problem' which i doubt
06:20 < Grum> the 128byte thing per entity however, wtf?
06:20 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: don't get rid of {"text":"..."} please
06:20 < Grum> SirCmpwn: we wont' we'll just stop supporting the \ua7's in it
06:20 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: and if you do, have a way for us to give text without specifying a translation thing to use
06:20 < Drainedsoul> I don't really understand how json chat was needed.  I mean the client is basically a retarded minion to the server in every regard, but echoing formatting chat messages without semantic meaning, that was the breaking point?
06:21 < Grum> Drainedsoul: being able to send nestable translatable strings
06:21 < Grum> without having the translations on the server
06:21 < barneygale> Yeah it's a good idea
06:21 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: the 128 bytes per entity thing is packet 44. It does a few others stupid things, if you're interested in hearing about them
06:21 < Grum> (because they update slow, do not allow for 'custom' ones)
06:21 < barneygale> I just think the colour code removal will make things harder in a few places
06:21 < Grum> SirCmpwn: i didnt knwo about it
06:22 <+SirCmpwn> and I am informing you now :P
06:22 < Grum> barneygale: you can nest/chain the {text:}...
06:22 <+SirCmpwn> barneygale: I'll write up some code to translate legacy chat format into json stuff
06:22 < ShaRose> Grum is it acceptable to open this sort of issue on the jira out of curiousity?
06:22 < Grum> what sort of?
06:22 < barneygale> Will the API for it be nice? In CH you just do a string concatination with `color(red)` or wharever
06:22 < Grum> the 128byte packet44?
06:23 < Grum> yes, imho that might be highly overkill; have someone justify it
06:23 < ShaRose> like, code issues in general
06:23 < Grum> ShaRose: depends
06:23 < Grum> easier to do it here
06:23 < Drainedsoul> if internationalization is such a concern, does that mean strings will be UTF-16 soon?
06:23 <+SirCmpwn> ooh, we can do technical details in the bug tracker?
06:23 <+SirCmpwn> I'm going to have a field day
06:23 < Grum> Drainedsoul: not sure what that has to do with anything
06:23 <+SirCmpwn> well, a restrained and responsible field day
06:23 < ShaRose> SirCmpwn that's what I just thought of yeah
06:23 < Drainedsoul> well you're worried about translatable strings, but you don't support the whole Unicode code space?
06:23 < Grum> i dont think the bugtracker is a good place for that
06:23 < barneygale> Additionally, do you know if colour codes / text markup will be available in MOTD, signs, player names?
06:24 <+SirCmpwn> Drainedsoul: does anyone actually use the rest of unicode
06:24 < Drainedsoul> CJK does
06:24 < ShaRose> can we get a ~special~ bugtracker just for that purpose, like the MC-API one sort of?
06:24 <+SirCmpwn> CJK?
06:24 < Drainedsoul> Chinese, Japanese, Korean
06:24 < Grum> ShaRose: not sure
06:24 <+SirCmpwn> ShaRose: I suspect it wouldn't take long for them to ignore it like they usually ignore this channel
06:24 <+SirCmpwn> Drainedsoul: I see
06:25 <+SirCmpwn> Drainedsoul: I suppose kanji fits in there, but most japanese use hirigana, and korean is a similar story
06:25 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: I think a mailing list regarding technical information would be a good idea
06:26 <+ammar2> mailing list?
06:26 <+ammar2> 2013?
06:26 < ShaRose> ^
06:26 <+SirCmpwn> they're still pretty active, and would reduce the number of non-technical users that would try to get involved
06:26 < ShaRose> maybe even a usenet board! lol!
06:27 < Grum> afk for ~40 mins making breakfast etc
06:27 < barneygale> Grum: MOTD, signs, player names? Sorry to be a bother but a few of us were a bit concerned, especially about signs
06:27 <+SirCmpwn> I second the concern regarding signs, barneygale Grum
06:27 <+SirCmpwn> ShaRose: I'm going to make a packet 44 bug report
06:27 < ShaRose> do it
06:28 < Eloston> I like the mailing list idea
06:28 < ShaRose> forum
06:28 < ShaRose> :(
06:29 <+ammar2> forums definetly tend to attract a lot of non technically orientated users
06:29 < ShaRose> yeah add a question about the code before they can register
06:30 <+SirCmpwn> bad idea
06:30 <+SirCmpwn> not everyone knows anything about the decompiled code (and they probably shouldn't be officially condoning that sort of thing)
06:31 < ShaRose> about code in general
06:31 < Drainedsoul> what kind of code?  What's an example of a question that's going to have the universality not to give false positives, but still keep non-technical people out?
06:32 <+SirCmpwn> mailing list makes this problem disappear, which is why I suggested it
06:32 <+SirCmpwn> it also keeps mojang from adopting a public stance that appears hostile to non-technical users
06:33 < dexter0> +1 for mailing list
06:36 <+SirCmpwn> https://mojang.atlassian.net/browse/MC-19208
06:37 <+SirCmpwn> ShaRose: 
06:37  * SirCmpwn goes back to documenting 1.6
06:38 < ShaRose> I was on newegg and this guy was talking about how he was amazed he got something in less than 24 hoursw
06:38 < ShaRose> I ordered a 60 pound chair from the US with amazon. it shipped thursday, I got it monday
06:38 <+SirCmpwn> there's a new field on the open window packet that is only sent when the window type is 11
06:39 <+SirCmpwn> we currently are only aware of window types 0-9
06:39 < ShaRose> this was with standard international shipping
06:39 <+SirCmpwn> these windows are probably related to mules, but I'm interested to learn what the new field is used for with them
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06:53 <+SirCmpwn> 11 is for horse inventories
06:55 <+SirCmpwn> I'm seeing a weird value for that int when it's sent with a horse inventory
06:56 <+SirCmpwn> will research more
06:57 <+SirCmpwn> 11 is also sent for donkey inventories
06:58 <+SirCmpwn> oooh, interesting: donkeys only have one inventory slot, but the packet says two
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07:08 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 34 commits to snapshot [+8/-0/±105] http://git.io/Gz3bbg
07:08 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] ggrote cd32db8 - - added cleaned chat message to Events/ChatMessageEventArgs.cs - fixed player position (y/stance) - added UpdateSign Handler - fixed MapChunkBulk and ChunkData Handlers - moved reading chunk from stream into single method - added LookAt and "basic" Move to MinecraftClient.Actions - fixed finding blocks by position
07:08 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] ggrote 7c5b15f - - changed ChatHandler to use indexof and remove instead of regex - reverted EntityHandlers.cs - removed braces and changed formatting - changed Move to start an async thread for movement - removed ProtocolVersion and FriendlyVersion as they are not used anymore
07:08 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] ggrote 617af5e - name refactoring
07:08 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] ggrote 903079b - added userid to session
07:08 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn dc43e73 - Upped protocol version
07:08 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 4132736 - Added MinecraftClient.MoveTo
07:08 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 38f03b7 - Cancel current client move operation before starting another
07:08 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 2ab8fa6 - Reponse to cancellation request
07:08 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] aholmes 12c2633 - Fix server crash when sending packets to disconnected clients #155
07:08 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn ebaa56f - Merge pull request #156 from aholmes/master Fix issue #155
07:08 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] aholmes 778c19a - Fix issue with players respawning under the map. This is done by adding the PlayerEntity.Height to Level.SpawnPoint. This change also changes storing the PlayerEntity.Height with the position when the user exits. Instead, I opted to add the height wherever needed. This has the effect of not dropping the user twice as high during respawn than during login. Issue #154
07:08 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] aholmes be3e34c - Correct whitespace
07:08 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn a6468df - Fix #158
07:08 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 10d2208 - Merge branch 'master' of github.com:SirCmpwn/Craft.Net
07:08 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 05f5b3a - Drop inventory on player death
07:08 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 6e4ea7e - Fix death spamming when falling into the void
07:08 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 330e914 - Slowed down death by void
07:08 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 3303737 - Merge remote-tracking branch 'aholmes/master'
07:08 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn b30f227 - Fix formatting issue with pull request
07:08 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 8277e52 - Removed test code from flatland generator
07:08 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 5ddf97a - Added tab complete event, closes #151
07:08 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 464e36d - Added TabCompleteEventArgs.Handled to avoid sending responses unless needed
07:08 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn a424a9f - Added TabCompleteEventArgs.Client
07:08 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 3be8aef - Fix client bug related to connecting to online mode servers in offline mode
07:08 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn f478f03 - Added overloads to do DNS lookups and such for the user
07:08 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn f480ba5 - Added support for dropping item stacks in creative mode
07:08 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn a271f8f - Update fNbt
07:08 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] pdelvo 4cb24c7 - Does now support IpV6!
07:09 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn a1dd676 - Merge pull request #169 from pdelvo/ipv6 Does now support IpV6!
07:09 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 78cff86 - Add new packets
07:09 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn ff1eac9 - Merge master into snapshot
07:09 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 5580ab9 - Basic 1.6 support
07:09 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 6eab3ef - Fixed walking/flying speed for 1.6, fixed another changed packet
07:09 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 3a3ac91 - Update README
07:09 <+SirCmpwn> viola, 1.6 support in C.N
07:09 < Grum> feel free to make a mailing list; it will mean i will *NEVER* respond to it
07:09 < Grum> if there is anything annoying its a mailinglist
07:10 < ShaRose> Grum what say you about a forum
07:10 < ShaRose> invite only, even
07:10 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: an alternative would be a welcome relief after lots of stress here about technical problems going unsolved
07:10 < Grum> ShaRose: also not good
07:10 < ShaRose> bugtracker area for it it is
07:11 <+SirCmpwn> you could just give me jeb's phone number
07:11 < Grum> name one big technical problem that is unsolved?
07:11 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: define 'big'
07:11 < ShaRose> anyways I need to go to sleep, 2:40 am
07:11 < Grum> one that would stress-you-out-big
07:11 < Drainedsoul> I thought the whole server and protocol were just one big technical problem
07:11 <+SirCmpwn> ^
07:11 <+SirCmpwn> I suppose one of the more important items is server list ping breaking multi-version support
07:11 < ShaRose> I lold there, I admit
07:12 <+SirCmpwn> there is also a ton of extraneous data going over the network, Grum, browse through an SMProxy log when you have some time
07:12 <+SirCmpwn> maybe 10% of what goes over the wire doesn't need to
07:12 < Grum> only 10%
07:12 < Grum> seems minimal
07:13 <+SirCmpwn> expand that over the lifetime of a game session
07:13 < Eloston> heh
07:13 <+SirCmpwn> that's probably a few dozen megabytes
07:13 <+SirCmpwn> in about a half hour
07:14 < Grum> o m g
07:14 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: another problem: there are at least a dozen ways to encode 3D coordinates
07:14 < Grum> my tears contain more information than that
07:14 < Grum> SirCmpwn: yeah also not going to be fixed
07:14 <+SirCmpwn> your tears contain more information than your hard drive, Grum
07:14 < Grum> you guys are only talking about protocol shit
07:14 < Grum> i can tell you now, we will not fix that any time soon
07:14 <+SirCmpwn> ...that's what we do here
07:14 < Grum> it really is the last priority
07:14 < Grum> SirCmpwn: i have excessively big harddrives ;)
07:15 <+SirCmpwn> unfortunately for us, your last priority is our first priority and takes up most of our time
07:15 < Eloston> Also if you don't clean up protocol shit now, it takes more effort to clean it out later
07:15 <+SirCmpwn> it's not that straightforward to reverse engineer a network protocol, especially a stupid one
07:16 < Grum> Eloston: bullshit
07:16 < Grum> SirCmpwn: luckily you have the source
07:16 < Eloston> well increased entropy
07:16 < Grum> Eloston: there has been barely any change to the protocol (major change)
07:16 < Grum> since 1.3 orso
07:16 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: figuring out what each field does is half the battle
07:16 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: if you'd like to provide us with unobsfucated source, though, I'm down ;)
07:16 < Grum> mcp.
07:17 <+SirCmpwn> they have to unobsfucate it, too
07:17 <+SirCmpwn> we're the first ones to see that stuff, Grum
07:18 <+SirCmpwn> anyway, reverse engineering the protocol is just one problem we face, it's core to our projects and the bonkers protocol makes our projects worse
07:19 < Eloston> Also has the client choosing not to do encryption problem been resolved yet?
07:19 < Eloston> I think that's a security risk
07:19 <+SirCmpwn> only works on offline mode servers, they'll never fix it
07:19 < Eloston> oh
07:20 <+SirCmpwn> Mojang is great about not fixing a lot of things
07:20 <+SirCmpwn> anything having to do with offline mode is one of them
07:20 -!- SpaceManiac [~SpaceMani@r74-192-152-131.gtwncmta01.grtntx.tl.dh.suddenlink.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
07:20 <+SirCmpwn> anything we ask for, really
07:22 < Grum> you play offline? you have no protection
07:22 < Grum> your risk.
07:22 <+SirCmpwn> and a bug becomes a feature
07:22 < Grum> we can remove offline mode if you want
07:22 < Grum> what bug become a feature?
07:23 <+SirCmpwn> haha, that won't just piss *us* off
07:23 < Grum> i know
07:23 < Grum> that is why offline mode still exists
07:23 < Grum> if it were up to me it would have been removed already
07:23 <+SirCmpwn> I'm sure all of us here would love to buy another two or three accounts to test with
07:24 < Eloston> Well if offline mode is removed someone out there will create a mod to re-enable it
07:24 < Grum> oh so i can remove it
07:24 < Grum> thanks Eloston
07:25 -!- Zartec [~Thunderbi@95-89-157-17-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Zartec]
07:25 < Grum> SirCmpwn: not really sure what the problem is with offlinemode and not having encryption
07:26 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: it's not really a problem, but I'm sure it wans't intentional
07:26 < Grum> it is
07:26 <+SirCmpwn> alright, alright
07:27 <+SirCmpwn> that's a pretty stupid stance to take: you want to play on a LAN, or maybe on a plane, or (any other place where offline mode is acceptable)? We'll just throw out your privacy
07:27 < Grum> there is nothing to protect?
07:27 <+SirCmpwn> I should write up a PoC of taking over the connection of someone else on the network
07:27 < Grum> you can pick any name you want?
07:28 <+SirCmpwn> it protects you from snoopers
07:28 < Grum> yeah you can just join the server as that person without ANY 'major changes'
07:28 < Grum> erm
07:28 < Grum> snoopers of what information?
07:28 < Grum> you moving around in the world?
07:28 < Grum> seriously?
07:28 <+SirCmpwn> your chat, for one thing
07:28 < Grum> no-one has ever cared for that
07:28 < Eloston> Then why even have encryption in the first place?
07:28 < Grum> and now all of the sudden that is a problem?
07:28 < Drainedsoul> so why is encryption involved in the first place
07:29 < Grum> sigh
07:29 < Grum> MITM
07:29 <+SirCmpwn> ^
07:29 < Grum> the uninformed wake up
07:29 < Grum> good morning uninformed.
07:29 < Eloston> but the MITM must care about chat or something then
07:29 <+SirCmpwn> forgive Drainedsoul and Eloston, they haven't been here long
07:29 < Grum> yeah but its the same story over and over and over :/
07:29 < Grum> Eloston: no, the MITM cares about not having a MITM
07:30 < Drainedsoul> but we just established that we weren't concerned about that
07:30 < Grum> and just to make sure; Man In The Middle
07:30 < Grum> yes you are concerned about that
07:30 <+SirCmpwn> I've had that same thought for the past half hour, Grum, though I'm probably thinking it for a different reason
07:30 < Grum> someone can 'lure' you to a server and then take over the server you admin
07:30 <+SirCmpwn> Drainedsoul: MITM affects online mode when encryption is turned off
07:30 < Grum> while appearting to be you on an online server
07:30 < Grum> rather harmful
07:30 < Grum> and it was actively exploited
07:31 < Grum> for offline servers? we just do not give a fuck
07:31 < Grum> because if you want to play offline? you go play offline
07:31 < Drainedsoul> so it's not that man in the middle, snooping, etc. aren't actually a problem w/offline mode, it's that you don't care about the problem
07:31 <+SirCmpwn> mitm is irrelevant in offline mode
07:31 < Grum> erm, no, mitm only applies to online mode
07:31 < Grum> in offline mode you can take ANY nick
07:31 <+SirCmpwn> well, except for servers which ask you to enter a password or whatever, which I'm *definitely* sure mojang doesn't support
07:32 < Grum> so why even bother with encryption to ensure you are the only person using the nick you authed for
07:32 <+SirCmpwn> in any case, there are significantly bigger fish to fry on Mojang's part, and they aren't being fried
07:32 < Drainedsoul> so why is the whole protocol encrypted, and not just the handshake?
07:32 < Grum> ....
07:33 < Grum> because that wouldnt defeat MITM
07:33 < Grum> the person playing MITM could jsut wait until the handshake is over
07:33 < Grum> and then inject its packets
07:33 < Eloston> Hold on, so when you're in online mode, you cannot have a client that doesn't send an encryption response?
07:33 < Grum> Eloston: indeed
07:33 <+SirCmpwn> correct, Eloston
07:33 < Eloston> oh ok
07:33 < Grum> you will get booted
07:33 < Eloston> k
07:33 < Grum> SirCmpwn: we're not just doing these mini incremental changes to the protocol
07:33 < Grum> we rather overhaul it properly
07:34 < Grum> for that almost all other things have to change first
07:34 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: you guys have said you'd overhaul the protocol since bukkit team was hired
07:34 < Grum> so that is what we'll be doing and that is why the 'protocol' is really near the tail of my todolist
07:34 <+SirCmpwn> I seriously doubt it'll ever happen, other things take priority
07:34 < Grum> yakshaving SirCmpwn
07:34 <+SirCmpwn> yakshaving?
07:34 < Drainedsoul> yeah the problem with technical debt is it's too tempting and easy to defer
07:35 <+ammar2> something something thicker fur needs to be cut first then get to the tail
07:35 < Grum> SirCmpwn: the common term for 'having to do shit to be able to do shit'
07:35 < Grum> lets just say that we have a lot of that 'shit'
07:36 < Eloston> more accurately as: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/yak_shaving
07:36 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: the problem, in your case, with 'having to do A to be able to do B' is that A regenerates
07:36 < Drainedsoul> ^
07:36 <+SirCmpwn> by the time you get to B, I imagine everyone will have moved on to Minecraft 2
07:37 < Grum> ok so name one 'major' inefficiency that needs to be fixed in the protocol?
07:37 < Grum> beyond just 'making in sane in general'
07:37 <+SirCmpwn> inefficiency or problem
07:37 < Grum> a thing that makes you 'stress out really badly'
07:37 <+SirCmpwn> the only thing that makes me "stress out really badly" is the whole protocol and everything you guys keep doing to it each update ;)
07:38 <+SirCmpwn> but the biggest isolated problem I can think of is the bloody server list ping
07:38 < Drainedsoul> what's wrong with that?
07:38 <+ammar2> uhh, it has this weird form of backward compatibility
07:38 <+SirCmpwn> breaks multi-version servers/proxies, and there are a couple of things that would make it a lot nicer
07:38 <+ammar2> Schrödinger's byte
07:38 <+SirCmpwn> it's also terrible in general since they had a stupid way of doing it originally and are stuck with maintaining it forever
07:38 < Drainedsoul> oh I just ignore the backwards compatibility
07:39 < Grum> Drainedsoul: we cant do that 'so easily'
07:39 < Grum> SirCmpwn: that is the big problem in general; lack of design from 'ye olden days'
07:39 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: easy solution: use a new packet ID and design a new server list ping
07:39 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: and ask us for help when you do so it's not mucked up again
07:40 <+SirCmpwn> why that wasn't done when it was changed a few versions ago is beyond me
07:40 < Grum> so now the real question is
07:41 < Grum> why do you guys not have written a wrapper for the 'broken protocol' sanifying it?
07:41 <+SirCmpwn> most of us do write wrappers
07:41 < Grum> SirCmpwn: this has to so with the horrible weird dns magic?
07:41 <+SirCmpwn> but you can wrap up shit all you want, all you're holding is a pile of shitty wrapping
07:41 < Grum> that someone implemented only halfway?
07:41 < Grum> and made it based on sun.* classes?
07:41 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: what
07:42 <+SirCmpwn> what horrible weird DNS magic, SRV records?
07:42 < Grum> yes
07:42 < Grum> in the code that is horribly weird dns magic
07:42 <+SirCmpwn> that's one thing that could be made better by a new server list ping
07:42 <+SirCmpwn> I don't read vanilla code, Grum
07:42 < Grum> you do
07:42 <+SirCmpwn> but the primary thing it'd solve is multi-version servers (which do exist)
07:42 <+SirCmpwn> well, did exist
07:43 < Grum> not sure why you would want multi-version servers :/
07:43 <+SirCmpwn> pdelvo has a proxy that supports back to 1.3.x
07:43 <+SirCmpwn> I used to write a bunch of software to hold people over between bukkit updates
07:43 <+SirCmpwn> etc, etc, etc
07:44 < Drainedsoul> honestly though, backwards compatibility is the bane of sane code and interfaces
07:44 < Drainedsoul> see: The Windows API
07:44 < Grum> SirCmpwn: i really do not see any benefit in having a multi-version-server
07:45 < Grum> it only justifies 'not updating', prolongs existence of weirdass bugs
07:45 <+SirCmpwn> they're not your bugs
07:45 <+SirCmpwn> you don't support multiversion, so it's obviously some third party software, why would your bugs exist in third party software?
07:46 < Grum> there is no good reason *ever* to play with an old version of mc
07:46 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: my solutions for laggy bukkit as described before were usually to allow new clients to play on old servers while bukkit/plugins updated
07:47 < Grum> which is stupid?
07:47 < Grum> if the server doesnt update, why would the client?
07:47 <+SirCmpwn> because the bloody launcher asks them to in 40 point font
07:48 <+SirCmpwn> and most players don't play on just one server
07:48 < Grum> used to.
07:48 < Grum> boom all validity killed.
07:48 < Grum> so we dont need it anymore
07:48 < Grum> perfect :D
07:48 <+SirCmpwn> you frustrate me, Grum.
07:49 < Eloston> I don't see evidence that people don't play on multiple servers
07:49 <+SirCmpwn> why don't we look back at that SRV stuff you brought up
07:50 < Grum> SirCmpwn: you made something because people are stupid; no we have something so taht stupid people can revert their stupidness
07:50 < Grum> i mean, problem solved?
07:50 <+SirCmpwn> <SirCmpwn> why don't we look back at that SRV stuff you brought up
07:51 <+SirCmpwn> the changes we're talking about would also ideally allow for proper virtual hosting again
07:51 -!- Eloston [~Eloston@c-76-121-64-112.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
07:51 < Grum> now the real question is; why would you *need* virtualhosting?
07:51 <+SirCmpwn> that's a terrible question and you should feel bad for asking it
07:52 < Grum> not really
07:52 <+SirCmpwn> okay, I'll describe a scenario
07:52 <+SirCmpwn> I don't really know how those hunger games servers work, but I think they'd apply to something like this
07:52 < Grum> its a good question, go explain why it is 'needed'
07:52 < Grum> SirCmpwn: vanilla usecase only.
07:52 <+SirCmpwn> a virtual hosting solution that directs players to a different "hunger games" server for games with random people, but at the same URL (and thus server list entry) every time
07:53 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: vanilla will support plugins soon (haha, soon), don't be silly
07:53 < Grum> i'm waiting :P
07:53 <+SirCmpwn> and this channel isn't about vanilla, anyway, we all design our own things here, so our desires are aligned with that idea
07:53 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: see also: bungeecord
07:54 < Grum> ?
07:54 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: it's a proxy that md_5 made, tens of thousands of users
07:54 <+SirCmpwn> could make good use of these changes
07:54 < Grum> vanilla usecase please
07:55  * dx walks in
07:55 < Grum> i mean, it cannot be THAT hard to come up with one
07:55 <+SirCmpwn> you frustrate me, Grum.
07:55 <+SirCmpwn> virtual hosting wasn't even added for vanilla when it was done the first time
07:55 < dx> oh look, it's this discussion again, where grum can't consider anything that developers or server admins need
07:55 < Grum> dx: i can? just give justification?
07:55 < dx> i'm not in the mood to join in though, sorry
07:55 <+SirCmpwn> dx: maybe if we have this discussion enough times, mojang will care about technical users
07:56 <+SirCmpwn> which I thought would happen when bukkit came on, actually
07:56 <+md_5> what did I do now?
07:56 <+SirCmpwn> md_5: wrote bungeecord
07:56 <+md_5> what are we using it as an argument for?
07:56 <+SirCmpwn> md_5: which hostname/protocol version in server list ping would be useful for
07:56 <+md_5> oh
07:56 <+md_5> yeah
07:57 <+md_5> thats a massive complaint I get
07:57 <+ammar2> vanilla use case pls SirCmpwn
07:57 <+md_5> and I have to reply "use multiple listeners + SRV record"
07:57 <+SirCmpwn> I still have no clue how to actually set up a SRV record
07:57 <+SirCmpwn> I googled for something like 20 minutes and it didn't work when I was done
07:57 <+ammar2> cloudflare makes it ez pz last I checked
07:57 <+md_5> its stupid shit
07:57 <+ammar2> from the nameserver side anyway
07:57 <+md_5> that and lack of protocol version
07:58 < dx> the syntax to add SRV records is very awkward but once you get it right once, just copypaste everywhere
07:58 <+md_5> I have all the code in bungee to support multiple versions
07:58 <+md_5> except for the ping packet
07:58 <+SirCmpwn> md_5: and roughly how many bungeecord users are affected?
07:58 <+md_5> LETS ADD A NEW FIELD TO THE PING TO DISTINGUISH VERSION
07:58 <+md_5> AND MAKE IT ALWAYS 0x01
07:58 <+ammar2> Schrödinger's byte
07:59 <+md_5> SirCmpwn bungee peaks at about 1500 servers and 55,000 minecraft players online globally
07:59 <+SirCmpwn> md_5: last time this discussion was added, I asked Grum to change it from 0x1 to current protocol version, but even such simple changes are out of scope
07:59 <+SirCmpwn> s/added/had/
07:59 <+ammar2> SirCmpwn: http://mcstats.org/plugin/BungeeCord
07:59 <+ammar2> a measly 55k players at peak time
08:00 <+md_5> once you factor in player cycle, thats hundred(s) of thousands of unique players a day
08:00 < Grum> SirCmpwn: where does it use 0x1?
08:00 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: afaik packet 0xFE has that one useless byte in it that's always set to 1
08:00 <+md_5> or 00
08:00 < Grum> seems to be not writing anything when you 'make' a GetInfoPacket (254)
08:00 <+md_5> cant recall which
08:00 <+SirCmpwn> as ammar2 calls it, Schrödinger's byte
08:00 <+md_5> it was added when the format changed
08:00 <+SirCmpwn> might not be there any more, I don't know if anyone here knows
08:01 <+md_5> its there still
08:01 <+SirCmpwn> since we all just pretended that you never did something that stupid and didn't read it
08:01 -!- r04r|away is now known as r04r
08:01 < Grum> erm ... i kinda have to agree that looks really broken O.o
08:01 -!- Yoshi2 [~Yoshi2@xdsl-87-78-26-55.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Bye]
08:02 <+SirCmpwn> md_5: http://b.wiki.vg/1.6#packets:0xfe
08:02 <+SirCmpwn> md_5: maybe not there any more?
08:02 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: and the first few times we mentioned it, that wasn't true? :(
08:02 <+SirCmpwn> I think we even brought it up on the day of the snapshot
08:03 < Grum> it looks weird that it seems half-implemented
08:03 < Grum> hmmm
08:03 <+ammar2> still there https://github.com/Bukkit/mc-dev/blob/master/net/minecraft/server/Packet254GetInfo.java#L13
08:03 < Grum> but its actually not the network protocol version
08:03 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: will you take our advice on how it can be fixed?
08:03 < Grum> nor intended to be used like that
08:04 < Grum> this packet seems to be assymetrical
08:04 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: also, please do a git blame so I know whose name to mutter under my breath when I have problems with it
08:05 < Grum> i thnk you might be just using it wrong
08:05 < Grum> when you send 0x01 you will get extra data back
08:05 < Grum> from which you can get information you normally cant
08:05 <+SirCmpwn> that's how we use it
08:06 < Grum> so the problem is what?
08:06 <+SirCmpwn> but a field that may or may not exist and has no indication of its existence is really stupid and breaks a lot of our packet code
08:06 < Grum> yeah which is why i said its rather 'weird'
08:06 < Grum> its not symetrical
08:06 < Grum> client->server it has to exist
08:06 < Grum> server->client it seems to not have to exist
08:07 <+SirCmpwn> and since you have this stupid little byte here that's not doing anything else, you may as well put the protocol version in it and make a lot of people happy
08:07 <+ammar2> huh? when does the server need to send the client the ping
08:07 <+SirCmpwn> ammar2: you misunderstood him.
08:07 <+ammar2> ok, whats he saying then
08:07 < Grum> typically packets read and write the same way
08:07 < Grum> its not symmetrical like that
08:07 <+ammar2> aah
08:07 <+SirCmpwn> except for player look/position packet
08:07 <+SirCmpwn> which we have also complained about for a couple of years now
08:07 <+ammar2> they fixed that iirc
08:07 < Grum> sigh dont talk about that
08:07 < Grum> god that is horrible
08:07 <+ammar2> or did they
08:08 <+SirCmpwn> they did not
08:08 <+ammar2> SirCmpwn: swapped stance/yaw?
08:08 <+SirCmpwn> the whole "stance" thing is ridiculously stupid
08:08 <+SirCmpwn> ammar2: correct
08:08 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: so, will you take our advice on improving packet 0xFE
08:09 < Grum> nope, it'll break all the things
08:09 <+SirCmpwn> I wouldn't be so sure
08:09 <+SirCmpwn> unless the vanilla codebase is so ridiculously bad that a change here could break things unrelated to pinging servers
08:10 < Grum> it would break all the things currently depending on it
08:10 <+SirCmpwn> otherwise, you should be able to fix it for the future and retain legacy compatibility if you play your cards right
08:10 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: what an insightful statement, that clears it all up
08:10 <+md_5> at the end of the day it comes down to this
08:10 <+md_5> the protocol is shit and it aint been fixed anytime soon
08:10 < Grum> yup
08:10 < Grum> and i dislike both points of it
08:10 <+md_5> despite a channel of 106 capable individuals providing useful feedback and suggestions
08:11 < Grum> chanserv can provide proper feedback? oh god .. SkyNey
08:11 < Grum> *t
08:11 <+SirCmpwn> md_5: even if the whole protocol isn't being rewritten, small changes can be very useful
08:11 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: "/msg ChanServ access #mcdevs list" tells you who the more interesting people are
08:11 <+SirCmpwn> ops, if you need them
08:11 <+md_5> I had a doc of < 15 line changes I wanted
08:12 <+SirCmpwn> I think the biggest problem is that no mojang employee is willing to seriously consider the technical requirements of some of our requests, no matter the simplicity
08:12 <+AndrewPH> garry listens to his community more than you guys, and he's a one-man team.
08:12 <+AndrewPH> and he's not exactly known for being nice
08:12 <+md_5> oh they will listen to us
08:13 <+md_5> lets just make a youtube channel
08:13 <+md_5> and get a million subs
08:13 <+SirCmpwn> the youtube community is obviously the most important part of the community, md_5
08:13 <+md_5> hm
08:13 <+AndrewPH> operation srennaNaeS
08:13 < Grum> AndrewPH: he also caters less than 3.7 million people per dev
08:13 <+md_5> actually appears you only need ~750k subs to get listened to by mojang
08:13 <+AndrewPH> Grum: and that has nothing to do with it behind the scenes, really
08:13 < Grum> AndrewPH: as much as the bullshit you said
08:14 <+SirCmpwn> md_5: don't make the mistake of assuming the developers who write all the code that helps keep the shitty official software working are important to Mojang
08:14 <+AndrewPH> the people don't experience what happens behind the scenes, they experience what you push out :)
08:14 <+SirCmpwn> what was the ratio of vanilla to bukkit servers again? I haven't checked in a while
08:14 <+md_5> not quite sure of your point, indirectly or directly Ive had well over a million people use my software
08:14 <+AndrewPH> In reality he's one man working with C++, and he's not a good C++ dev as far as I've heard, vs a team of proficient java developers.
08:15 < Grum> working on a shitty java codebas
08:15 <+SirCmpwn> maintaining notch's code
08:15 < Grum> i mean..... seriously? O.o
08:15 <+AndrewPH> He was working on a shitty C++ codebase :)
08:15 < Grum> apples and pears
08:15 <+md_5> you have had what
08:15 <+md_5> like a year and a half at mojang
08:15 <+md_5> not quite
08:15 <+AndrewPH> He's had the tougher job and has /handled it/
08:15 < Grum> more like half a year
08:15 <+md_5> a year
08:15 < Grum> bit less actually
08:15 <+ammar2> year
08:15 <+SirCmpwn> the users in this channel could have rewritten minecraft in that time
08:15 < Grum> yeah, give us 106/x times half a year and we'll do it too!
08:16 < Grum> err /3
08:16 <+SirCmpwn> the regulars, that is
08:16 <+md_5> if we were paid a cushy job in a cushy office to work full time we could have rewritten the game
08:16 <+ammar2> http://forums.bukkit.org/threads/bukkit-the-next-chapter.62489/ created feb 28
08:16 <+SirCmpwn> ammar2: 2012, that is
08:16 < Grum> ammar2: yes, and the 'real' work started from when i finally moved to sweden
08:16 <+ammar2> obviously :P
08:16 < Grum> which is just half a year ago
08:17 <+md_5> 6 of us + a year fulltime work    ->> whole new Minecraft
08:17 -!- SpaceManiac [~SpaceMani@r74-192-152-131.gtwncmta01.grtntx.tl.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #mcdevs
08:17 < Grum> md_5: yup
08:17 <+md_5> I daresay you havent achieved anything near to that
08:17 <+SirCmpwn> hell, in the past two months, I rewrote about 5% of SpaceX's core infrastructure\
08:17 <+SirCmpwn> and that's working alone
08:17 < Grum> so right now we're at ... 2 people working on it for 6 months
08:17 <+md_5> 2 people
08:18 <+md_5> EvilSeph is gr8 m8
08:18 < Grum> yes, jeb does jack shit
08:18 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: are you and Dinnerbone the only ones maintaining minecraft?
08:18 < Grum> yes
08:18 <+md_5> no
08:18 <+md_5> evilseph
08:18 <+SirCmpwn> why?
08:18 <+md_5> is fixing all the bugs
08:18 <+SirCmpwn> hire more people
08:18 < Grum> no what SirCmpwn says
08:18 <+ammar2> squashing bugs left and right md_5 ;)
08:18 <+SirCmpwn> mojang is swimming in money
08:18 < Grum> SirCmpwn: which is what i've been saying o.O
08:18 < Grum> since i'm at the office
08:18 < Grum> and i tried before to get 3 people in to do the renderer
08:18 < Grum> which fell flat on its ass
08:18 <+ammar2> Grum 4 mojang president 2013
08:18 < Grum> because unlike you suggest, people actually do not do that much work (except for UMM)
08:19 <+md_5> so
08:19 <+SirCmpwn> UMM?
08:19 <+md_5> what you are saying
08:19 <+md_5> is evilseph doesnt develop Minecraft
08:19 < dexter0> UltraMoogleMan
08:19 < Grum> md_5: almost correct
08:19 <+AndrewPH> Grum: is he supposed to be but doesn't?
08:19 <+md_5> yet he seems to take a ton of credit for the bugs he fixes
08:19 <+SirCmpwn> so Dinnerbone does only what youtubers want
08:19 < Grum> if he fixes a bug we probably fix 20
08:19 <+SirCmpwn> and Grum starts and abandons rewrites
08:19 <+ammar2> md_5: the one bug that had the solution in the jira comment? :D
08:19 < Grum> SirCmpwn: no? O.o
08:19 < Grum> i dont abandon anything
08:19  * md_5 adds to quote base
08:20 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: I thought you'd abandoned lighting rewrite
08:20 <+SirCmpwn> rendering rewrite
08:20 <+SirCmpwn> etc
08:20 < Grum> SirCmpwn: only lighting was shelved because there is no good solution available right now
08:20 <+SirCmpwn> Dinnerbone abandoned lighting rewrite, too
08:20 <+SirCmpwn> or maybe it was just Dinnerbone
08:20 < Grum> yes, because it took too much time
08:20 < Grum> and we had other shit to do
08:20 < Grum> and we couldnt see us figuring it out properly
08:20 <+AndrewPH> Grum: why don't you guys just get a bunch of shit together for a big update for a while, and work on unfucking the protocol in the downtime after that
08:21 < Grum> i mean, we had a 'semi' good system, it was just factor10 slower than the broken 'sortof' ok one right now
08:21 <+SirCmpwn> anyway, the point I think we're all making here is that no one at mojang has done anything to make any developers happy since the bukkit hiring
08:21 < Grum> and GOD that code is horrible, and tainted from 10 directions
08:21 < Grum> SirCmpwn: some things are ongoing
08:21 <+md_5> so
08:21 <+SirCmpwn> rather, you guys seem to just be making developers less happy
08:21 <+md_5> sitting on your arse
08:21 < Grum> but things take time
08:21 <+md_5> yelling ITS BROKE
08:21 < Grum> md_5: no? O.o
08:21 <+md_5> does not help the issue
08:21 < Grum> i'm fixing al lthe things i put my hands on
08:21 <+ammar2> pls rewrite grum, hire your own crew
08:21 < Grum> do you really think that dbone coded ANYTHING of the resource/texture handling?
08:21 <+md_5> every time we speak to you, you just say that the code is shit and we are getting to it eventually
08:22 < Grum> well actually he did, the json parsing part
08:22 < Grum> because we just ran out of time
08:22 <+SirCmpwn> well, and he also discards all of our feedback, md_5
08:22 < Grum> md_5: the code is shit -> yakshaving for all the small tasks
08:22 <+md_5> uh
08:22 <+md_5> then how come I can implement almost every request we have made
08:22 < Grum> and yakshaving ^ 3 for anything larger
08:22 <+md_5> in less than ~15 loines
08:22 <+SirCmpwn> and Dinnerbone hasn't talked to us in months, afaik
08:22 < Grum> md_5: because you give fuck all for compatibility
08:23 <+md_5> and you?
08:23 <+md_5> protocol changes every version
08:23 <+md_5> there is 0 compat there
08:23 < Grum> blame .... dinnerbone
08:23 <+md_5> > resource packets
08:23 <+SirCmpwn> did Grum just play the compatibility card
08:23 <+SirCmpwn> hahaha
08:23 <+md_5> *packs
08:23 <+md_5> not compatible
08:23 < Grum> yes, needed change though
08:23 <+md_5> so, the protocol needs a change
08:23 <+AndrewPH> <Grum> SirCmpwn: i really do not see any benefit in having a multi-version-server
08:23 <+AndrewPH> <Grum> it only justifies 'not updating', prolongs existence of weirdass bugs
08:23 <+SirCmpwn> didn't we spend 15 minutes earlier discussing a super simple change that lets *us* do legacy support for you?
08:23 < Grum> also a MASSIVE change so we've put it all in one patch
08:23 <+md_5> and again playing the compat card is just saying you have no other arguments
08:23 < Grum> SirCmpwn: you dont need legacy support.
08:24 <+AndrewPH> you do not see benefit in backwards compatibility..
08:24 <+SirCmpwn> well we damn well want it
08:24 <+SirCmpwn> and we'll do it for you
08:24 < Grum> md_5: no, but 'backwards compat' in that way means we have to write horrible tools to do conversions
08:24 < Grum> which take a fuckton of time to make
08:24 <+SirCmpwn> we just need a tiny little bit of actual cooperation with mojang
08:24 <+md_5> heck
08:24 <+SirCmpwn> call us up
08:24 <+SirCmpwn> we'll write the bloody tools
08:24 <+md_5> if we gave you a 50 line patch each week
08:24 <+md_5> and you did something with it
08:24 <+md_5> we would be happy
08:25 <+SirCmpwn> we can't really give them patches
08:25 <+md_5> pretty sure you change a lot more than 50 lines an hour
08:25 <+SirCmpwn> obfuscation
08:25 < Grum> nope
08:25 < Grum> a good coder only does like 50 lines/day
08:25 <+md_5> oh jeez, here we go
08:25 <+SirCmpwn> that must have been bait, md_5, don't worry
08:26 < Grum> meh go look up the actual statistics
08:26 < Grum> also inflating 'linecount' is rather trivial :P
08:27 <+md_5> Grum what did you do / where did you work before mojang
08:28 <+SirCmpwn> around the month of may, on one of my open source projects (which I wasn't being paid for), I wrote 6,870 LOC and deleted 3,185 LOC
08:28 <+SirCmpwn> Fun Fact(tm)
08:28 < Grum> yeah, so easy to write new code
08:29 <+AndrewPH> I've done tons of work on a webgame that is comprised of over 500MB of PHP and an equal amount of images. I had to rewrite things that affect every page
08:29 <+md_5> I did a pretty big refactor the other work
08:29 <+md_5> *week
08:29 <+md_5> something like 3k added 3k deleted
08:29 < Grum> so you added 0
08:29 <+SirCmpwn> that code was in assembly and was mostly filesystem drivers
08:29 -!- Cay [~OlofLarss@s83-177-171-150.cust.tele2.se] has joined #mcdevs
08:29 < Grum> SirCmpwn: so inflated linecounts because of assembly; kk
08:29 <+SirCmpwn> okay, halve them, maybe
08:30 <+md_5> no
08:30 <+md_5> too much inflation
08:30 <+md_5> 1/64 should be about right
08:30 <+SirCmpwn> maybe 1/4
08:30 <+SirCmpwn> to do it in C, it'd take probably about 4 times the LoC
08:30 <+SirCmpwn> 4 times less, that is
08:31 < Grum> ok so since 25c we did 4691 insertions and 84091 deletions
08:31 <+SirCmpwn> 25c?
08:31 < Grum> 13w25c
08:31 <+SirCmpwn> also, jesus christ, that ratio is fucked up
08:31 <+md_5> -> reformat from allman style
08:31 < Grum> yeah i deleted all the resourcefiles :)
08:32 < Grum> erm lang files
08:32 <+SirCmpwn> why the hell are we talking about this
08:32 <+SirCmpwn> we're supposed to be complaining that mojang does jack shit about our problems
08:33 < Grum> 26a->25c (that is just the fucking weekend and a day) is 116files/3065 insert/2484 deletions
08:33 <+md_5> but grum
08:33 < Grum> so, we're absolutely doing *nothing* with the code right?
08:33 <+md_5> only 50 lines a day
08:33 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: so you'd like to revise your statement about 50 lines a day
08:33 < Grum> md_5: that should have been 50 lines/week
08:33 <+SirCmpwn> dammit md_5
08:33 <+md_5> mind explaining those changes
08:33 < Grum> of 'actual' code additions
08:33 <+md_5> 116files/3065 insert/2484 deletions                 <--- explain what happened
08:34 < Grum> i fixed up localization
08:34 <+md_5> so
08:34 <+AndrewPH> Grum: nobody's arguing that you're doing literally nothing with the code, we're arguing that you (minecraft team) are doing things primarily in the interest of pleasing youtube stars... or at least, that's the impression I'm getting.
08:34 <+md_5> you added / removed / altered a bunch of TL keys
08:34 < Grum> and some bugfixes
08:34 < Grum> md_5: no
08:34 <+md_5> probably 106 locales  and 10 source files
08:34 < Grum> i actually fixed localization properly so it loads/refreshes from resourcepacks, is incremental, supports 'other namespaces'
08:34 < Grum> and you can add custom languages from resourcepacks
08:35 <+SirCmpwn> damn, the modding API was announced in december?
08:35 <+SirCmpwn> what on earth have you been doing this whole time
08:35 < Grum> of 2008 orso
08:35 <+SirCmpwn> hell, you could have just copied bukkit into vanilla
08:35 < Grum> which would do what good?
08:35 < Grum> would that fix the current horrible sourcebase?
08:35 <+SirCmpwn> no, but it might give you time to give a damn about developers
08:35 < Grum> would that make it 'clean/easy' to do changes without base-edits?
08:36 < Grum> SirCmpwn: giving a damn by breaking everything and making the fucking mess EVEN bigger and thus introduce WAY more yakshaving when you want to do internal changes?
08:36 < Grum> good plan sir, good plan
08:36 < dexter0> Actually, we recently passed the anniversary of the 'API summit'  :P
08:36 < Grum> dexter0: yup
08:36  * SirCmpwn scrolls up and re-reads md_5's comments about getting these things done in patches just fine
08:36 < Grum> i dont like it, but reality is reality, the codebase is not made for anything api-like
08:36 <+md_5> SirCmpwn yeah but I break protocol compaty
08:37 <+SirCmpwn> md_5: well shit, we can't have that
08:37 <+md_5> ideally 1.5 clients will connect to 1.6 servers
08:37 < Grum> you can, but do it all in one go ideally
08:37 <+md_5> #amiright
08:37 <+md_5> and vice versa
08:37 <+ammar2> definetly a no-no, backwards compatibility is the highest priority
08:37 < Grum> md_5: why? O.o
08:37 <+md_5> well you said compatability
08:37 <+SirCmpwn> shit, looks like protocol compatibility already been broken 72 times
08:37 <+SirCmpwn> has already*
08:37 <+md_5> I dont see any other proof of compat
08:37 < Grum> it should be broken for a reason
08:37 < Grum> not because 'it makes your hacky shit easier'
08:37 <+md_5> well
08:37 <+md_5> we have lots of reasons
08:38 <+md_5> and now you resort to calling our work hacky
08:38 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: how about "you already broke it in the upcoming snapshot and there's no real reason left to avoid putting these things in"
08:38 < Grum> give me the changes that are not based around: 'making your hacky shit easier'
08:38 <+SirCmpwn> it's not like you don't break it all the fucking time anyway
08:38 <+md_5> I can assure you that most of our work is not hacky in the slightest
08:38 <+md_5> except when we have to hack around all your bugs and crap
08:38 <+SirCmpwn> no one could've guessed before now that anyone at mojang had any reservations about upping the protocol version
08:38 < Grum> md_5: so it is hacky? :D
08:38 <+SirCmpwn> hell, you've upped the protocol version several times when you didn't even need to!
08:38 <+md_5> SirCmpwn requires full change control
08:38 < Grum> i mean even the edges of my new code get hacky because of the cruft i'm trying to make it work in
08:39 < Grum> SirCmpwn: blame dinner
08:41 <+md_5> 'blame dinner'
08:41 <+md_5> as a software development 'team' you should be working these things out
08:42 <+md_5> not just stepping on eachothers toes, making changing as you feel like it
08:42 <+SirCmpwn> I have no idea why I even do Minecraft software, now that I think about it
08:42 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #mcdevs
08:42 <+SirCmpwn> dealing with Minecraft from a technical standpoint sucks
08:42 < Grum> SirCmpwn: yup
08:42 < Grum> that goes the same from the inside
08:42 <+AndrewPH> dealing with minecraft sucks
08:42 <+SirCmpwn> well, I don't really feel like stopping my software, so I'll just continue without a real reason to do so
08:43 <+AndrewPH> I personally have dropped hosting or playing.
08:43 <+SirCmpwn> I hardly ever play for fun
08:43 <+md_5> so basically what we have gathered from this conversation is that mojangs dev practices suck and they havent advanced since notch first hired jeb
08:44 < Drainedsoul> I thought this was well understood
08:44 < Grum> md_5: erm what?
08:44 < Grum> we've advanced quite some since notch first hired jeb
08:44 <+SirCmpwn> md_5: no, we already knew that. We learned that we can append "and they aren't willing to change that" to it
08:44 < Grum> but not in code sanity
08:45 < Grum> that only really started since dinner/me started hacking on the code
08:45 <+md_5> SirCmpwn I was about to add a nice line about that, couldnt figure out how to phrase it nicely enough though
08:45 < Grum> yeah except that we are actually change it
08:45 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: well would you please kick Dinnerbone's ass for us and get to work on the bloody problems Minecraft has had since alpha?
08:45 <+md_5> <Grum> that only really started since dinner/me started hacking on the code                         <-- but then you still go on to "blame dinner"
08:45 < Grum> yes, because i am not going to take the blame for shit he does
08:45 <+md_5> no one person should be getting the blame
08:46 <+md_5> you are a TEAM
08:46 <+md_5> a development team
08:46 < Grum> except that we aren't
08:46 -!- r04r is now known as r04r|away
08:46 <+md_5> stop thinking like you/he are the god of Minecrafts codebase
08:46 < Grum> i take enough crap, i dont need the crap about code i didn't actually write
08:46 < Grum> i'll own up to the shit i write
08:46 <+SirCmpwn> convince Dinnerbone to talk to us, we'll give him the crap he's due
08:47 < Grum> join #minecraft and talk to him?
08:47 <+md_5> he is in this channel
08:47 <+md_5> ....
08:47 < SinZ> he is in here, he just perma idles
08:47 <+SirCmpwn> he's been here forever, but he hasn't spoken to us in months
08:47 <+ammar2> SinZ: after we started telling him about his crap? :P
08:47 <+md_5> point being
08:48 <+md_5> development team produces bad code / has bad code -> blame development team, not a person in it
08:48 <+md_5> the place I was at had the same thing, network team, linux team, windows team, storage team, ops team etc etc etc
08:48 <+SirCmpwn> let's review how far we (#mcdevs hackers) have come tonight: exactly as far as we've come in the past two years
08:48 <+md_5> when someone takes a tape drive out at the wrong time causing a backup to fail
08:48 <+md_5> the ops team gets blamed
08:48 <+md_5> not the kid who took the drive out
08:48 < Grum> so if someone started bitching and whining about something that someone else did, and you agree with it that it was stupid ... you'd never say: yeah, talk to them
08:49 <+md_5> you address it as a team
08:49 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: you're our only point of contact into Mojang. You take all the shit and we assume you'll re-distribute our shit appropriately
08:49 < Grum> he's in the fucking channel
08:49 <+md_5> what you are saying is mojang has no team structure
08:49 < Grum> stop pretending we're having 1000 people working under 'one interface'
08:49 <+md_5> which is pathetic given that you have total profits over at least half a billion
08:49 < Grum> md_5: we actually do not have that
08:49 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: he doesn't *listen* to the fucking channel. He may as well not be here for all he's done here
08:49 < Grum> SirCmpwn: which is why i said #minecraft
08:50 <+SirCmpwn> that place is a shithole, and I think I'm still banned for doing things like calling it a shithole
08:50 < SinZ> but then there are code muggles listening to our problems
08:50 < Grum> SinZ: so?
08:50 <+SirCmpwn> anyway, the audience is wrong. This is the place for technical discussion.
08:50 < Grum> i have the same problem in this channel
08:50 < SinZ> They will side with shit code because Dinnerbro is a god to them
08:50 <+ammar2> Grum: you are literally the only proper inlet we have towards tech discussion internally in mojang, naturally all the shit gets funelled through you
08:51 < Grum> i'm happy to change things, for the right reasons
08:51 -!- ranie [~rramiso@124.6.182.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
08:51 <+SirCmpwn> we've given you dozens of things to change and a dozen reasons for each change
08:51 <+SirCmpwn> exactly zero of them have changed
08:51 < Grum> and all those reasons are selfish
08:51 < Grum> and not actually needed
08:51 <+md_5> supporting a thriving group of people who were just like you 2 years ago isnt one of them
08:51 < Grum> well maybe not all :p
08:51 < Grum> i gotto run to work; getting late; online in ~40m
08:52 <+SirCmpwn> they're selfish, but they help the community because when we get them, we do shit with them that helps the community at large
08:52 <+md_5> ok, we will just plot and scheme until you get here
08:52 <+md_5> thanks for your time
08:52 <+AndrewPH> so who's gonna order the pitchforks?
08:52 < SinZ> btw Grum: is the new launcher still supposed to not show the icon for 1.5.x ?
08:52 <+SirCmpwn> drive safe, Grum, I need to yell at you more when you get there
08:52 <+md_5> thats dinnerbros domain SinZ 
08:52 <+ammar2> every one of the reasons we state you end up countering with "but how will vanilla use it"
08:52 <+ammar2> and its incredibly fucking frustruating
08:52 <+md_5> no one uses vanilla
08:52 <+ammar2> ^^
08:52 <+md_5> is that not understood :|
08:52 < SinZ> md_5: dinnerbro isn't accesable, and I won't go near #minecraft
08:52 <+SirCmpwn> apparently not by Grum
08:53 <+AndrewPH> md_5: correction, nobody uses vanilla /server/
08:53 <+md_5> at peak time there are 300,000 users on Minecraft servers
08:53 < SinZ> AndrewPH: Vannila dedicated server*
08:53 <+md_5> at peak time there are 55,000 users on my software
08:53 < dx> dinnerbro did appear here a few times
08:53 <+ammar2> months ago
08:53 <+AndrewPH> i should plug in my 3ds and work on oracle of ages some more
08:53 <+AndrewPH> finally got past that skull dungeon
08:54 < dexter0> I't disappointing to hear the rendering engine rewrite has run into trouble.
08:54 <+md_5> bloody 20% of your playerbase gets their opinion about the quality of Minecraft SMP through the quality of my code
08:54 < dx> in the middle of a discussion i remember he sent an amazing amount of 10 messages (over the period of a few hours)
08:54 <+md_5> if my code has a bug that causes players to crash -> 20% of your smp players assume that it is YOUR fault
08:54 <+AndrewPH> md_5: better get going
08:54 <+md_5> not to be egotistic or anything
08:54 <+AndrewPH> you know what to do
08:55 <+md_5> but how is that NOT  a reason to provide some level of support
08:55 < SinZ> implant a bug just to cause an uprising
08:55 <+ammar2> md_5: support checklist
08:55 <+ammar2> [ ] is it vanilla?
08:55 <+AndrewPH> [ ] is it vanilla
08:55 <+AndrewPH> [ ] does it require changes to more than 0 things
08:55 <+ammar2> [ ] does sethbling care?
08:55 <+SirCmpwn> [ ] does it please youtubers?
08:56 < SinZ> MinecraftHelp only supports vannila, which is why there is almost never server help requests there
08:56 <+SirCmpwn> maybe I should hit up sethbling on skype
08:56 <+SirCmpwn> convince him to do a video about how terrible this shit is
08:56 <+SirCmpwn> or sneak a blog post into his site
08:56 < Zachoz> a just unban his bro's account..
08:56 < Zachoz> crap, wrong window..
08:56 < SinZ> [ ] Does it help #mcdevs in any possible way?
08:56 < SinZ> ^ if ticked, reject
08:57 < Zachoz> we need a huge twitter trend to start or something...for them to even consider...
08:58 <+SirCmpwn> #MinecraftSucksAndMojangDoesntCare
08:59 <+SirCmpwn> ping me when Grum gets back, I'm going to beat a few kittens to death to relieve frustration
08:59 <+ammar2> hot.
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09:10 <+md_5> hm
09:10 <+md_5> I vote mojang hires this kid: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1861963-need-proffesional-modders-and-texture-makers-remaking-minecraft/#entry23030238
09:12 < SinZ> "Can you modding"
09:14 <+md_5> I can into modding
09:14 < SinZ> I find it entertaining, he actually just wants to make a mod of minecraft to replace basically everything
09:15 < SinZ> "I dont mean remake minecraft. I make superbig mod."
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09:22 < Grum> < SinZ> [10:52:24] btw Grum: is the new launcher still supposed to not show the icon for 1.5.x ? <-- actually that should work, for some reason it doesnt, not really sure why :/
09:22 < SinZ> is the normal MC version just destroying it again after the wrapper sets it?
09:23 < Grum> that could be
09:23 <+md_5> oh
09:23 <+md_5> welcome back
09:23 < Grum> SirCmpwn: saw it, wont respond to it (you know what it is about :D)
09:23 <+md_5> <SirCmpwn> just tell Grum when he gets back that I am still very sad that he and Mojang don't care for developers
09:23 <+md_5> we will give you a minute to read all the backlog
09:23 < Grum> nothing new on it
09:24 <+ammar2> c'mon man
09:24 <+ammar2> we worked hard on that checklist
09:24 < Grum> hehe i do like it :P
09:24 < Grum> sadly some things seem to go like that :(
09:24 < Grum> however, the first one is rather valid
09:24 -!- Calinou [~Calinou@unaffiliated/calinou] has joined #mcdevs
09:24 < Grum> (and the second one thereby ;D)
09:26 <+ammar2> Grum: can we get a more recent pic of you to compare happiness with http://i.imgur.com/t3NMr.jpg
09:27 <+md_5> facecam now plz
09:27 <+md_5> are dinner's eyes still red?
09:27 -!- edlothiol [~edlothiol@2a02:810b:80c0:27:f2de:f1ff:fe78:51cf] has joined #mcdevs
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09:29 < dx> i heard his eyes are more red than ever
09:29 < SinZ> he decided since skeletons are made of bones, they should be MLG snipers
09:30 < dx> do they turn 360 degrees before shooting too?
09:30 < SinZ> they just kill you
09:31 < dx> oh. okay.
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09:48 < SinZ> Grum: I like the name of your new login service
09:49 <+md_5> SinZ what is it?
09:50 < SinZ> Yggdrasil
09:50 <+md_5> huh
09:50 <+md_5> Yggdrasil is the name of a server I know
09:50 <+md_5> also a tree it seems
09:50 < SinZ> the server is authserver.mojang.com/authenticate
09:51 <+md_5> Server:Restlet-Framework/2.1.2
09:52 < SinZ> https post, where the post info is json
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10:23 < unnicked177> actually Yggdrasil is a powerful Zerg Overlord
10:23 < unnicked177> http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Yggdrasill
10:23 < unnicked177> everybody just likes to steal name from it
10:24 <+ammar2> b-but that was before you came in
10:24 <+md_5> dun dun dun
10:24 < dx> lol
10:25 < dx> he just pingout'd
10:25 <+ammar2> oh right :P
10:25 < dx> also
10:25 <+md_5> nooo
10:25 <+md_5> look up 30 lines or so
10:25 <+md_5> shows him joining for the first time
10:25 < dx> unnicked177: TOTALLY NOT PART OF NORSE MYTHOLOGY
10:26 < unnicked177> definetely not
10:26 < unnicked177> also, mythologies are describing non-existing things so they are pointless
10:26 < TobiX> m(
10:27 < TobiX> unnicked177: How is Starcarft any more "real"?
10:28 < unnicked177> TobiX: universe is near-infinite, Zergs or similar hive-mind-based lifeforms have great chance to exist
10:28 < unnicked177> creatures from mythologies have lesser chance because they are so unnatural
10:28 < dx> confirmed for high as fuck
10:29 < unnicked177> dx: Zergs don't violate any laws of physics or biology
10:29 < unnicked177> there is no reason for them to not exist somewhere
10:30 < dx> maybe, but you gotta be high to apply that kind of logic
10:30 < unnicked177> no, you just have to know basis of probability theory and have some common sense
10:31 -!- conehead [~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.]
10:31 < unnicked177> it is more probable for lifeform that doesn't violate any laws of universe to exist, than for lifeform that violates many of laws to exist
10:31 < TobiX> unnicked177: Uhm. "Hive mind" as portraied in StarCraft violates some laws... At least until the existance of telepathy (over long distance) is proven...
10:32 < unnicked177> so starcraft is describing more real things (potentially) than mythology, hence Yggdrasill should belong to Zerg overlord
10:32 < dx> dis guy
10:32 <+md_5> oh jeez
10:32 < dx> md_5: ikr
10:32  * md_5 pings sadimusi and whoever else can wield the banhammer
10:32 < unnicked177> TobiX: iirc Zerg uses overlords and celebrates as retransmitters
10:32  * unnicked177 has 14 years of starcraft experience
10:34 < unnicked177> TobiX: remember the mission when Zeratul kills celebrates, after that remaining zergs go rampart
10:37 < unnicked177> TobiX: btw, there are hive-minds on Earth. ants.
10:39 < Grum> whaa back; also unnicked177: its a big tree
10:40 <+ammar2> Grum: scroll up, we had a very important request
10:40 < Grum> denied.
10:41 < jast> news flash: big trees are less likely to exist than zerglings
10:41 < jast> according to some random guy
10:41 < unnicked177> jast: mythological big trees.
10:41 < jast> so the thing that makes it not exist is the context in which people spoke of it?
10:41 < jast> people speak of zerglings in the context of a video game. that's just as made up as a mythology.
10:42 <+AndrewPH> starcraft was based on a true story, though
10:42 < jast> you're saying that one type of made-up story makes anything in it impossible and the other does not
10:42 < unnicked177> no, i am speaking against specific tree, not just big tree
10:42 < unnicked177> "Yggdrasil is an immense tree that is central in Norse cosmology, in connection to which the nine worlds exist."
10:42 < unnicked177> sounds quite unlikely to exist
10:42 <+AndrewPH> time to scour the house for large sheets
10:42 <+AndrewPH> for a fan fort!
10:44 < unnicked177> jast: i just compared the chances of Zergs to exist with chances of "immense tree that is central in Norse cosmology, in connection to which the nine worlds exist." to exist.
10:44 < unnicked177> i'm not claiming Zergs exist. but they have higher chance
10:45 < jast> according to what metric? your thinking
10:45 < jast> which, of course, is the sole authority on existence of everything ever
10:47 < unnicked177> according to calculation of impossible events that are necessary to allow existance of entity in question
10:47 < jast> you can't calculate this kind of hting
10:47 < jast> unless you'd like to give me the underlying probability distribution function(s) as formulae
10:47 < unnicked177> jast: you can't calculate everything with 100% reliability. but it is possible to calculate it based on past experience of humanity
10:48 < jast> that's what's called an inductive leap
10:48 < unnicked177> ( existance of humanity and outer world is an axiom in this case )
10:48 < jast> there is no mathematical truth to it... none whatsoever
10:49 < unnicked177> jast: is chance of seeing a car on the street higher than seeing protoss carrier?
10:49 < unnicked177> whatever will be your answer, it will be inductive leap aswell
10:50 < jast> in terms of my personal experience? yes. in terms of math? only if you assume that the past predicts the future
10:50 < jast> (which is something that I don't generally agree with)
10:51 < Grum> md_5: packet 254 should have what changes and why?
10:52 < dx> whoa. grum seems to be willing to actually change something. everyone else stop the offtopic.
10:52 < unnicked177> jast: believing that math gives a way to avoid inductive leap is inductive leap aswell.
10:53 < unnicked177> so it can't give such way
10:53 < dx> unnicked177: stop.
10:53 < Grum> it's fine
10:53 <+md_5> Grum :
10:53 <+md_5> Packet 254 should have the following changes
10:54 <+md_5> 1) A version byte identical to that in 0x02
10:54 <+md_5> 2) A string + int to detail the connected hostname, identical to that in 0x02
10:54 <+md_5> this will allow for
10:54 <+md_5> 1) Proxies / Servers to support multiple Minecraft versions concurrently
10:54 <+ammar2> vhosting that isn't a pain in the ass :P
10:54 <+md_5> 2) Proper virtual hosting support
10:55 < Grum> so i can do 2, because 1 has really not that much usecase does it?
10:55 < Grum> 1 actually gives us support issues
10:55 <+ammar2> yeah 2 is fine
10:55 <+ammar2> do it for 2
10:55 < dx> you can add a string but not a version byte?
10:55 <+md_5> Grum not really.....
10:55 <+md_5> bungee supports multiple versions
10:55 <+md_5> you just have to bind to multiple ports
10:56 < Grum> right
10:57 < SinZ> but version is less important than actually having the hostname|port
10:57 < dx> nothing stops you from doing hostname|port|version
10:58 < dx> if there's some actual reason not to use that one 'unused' byte, that is.
10:59 <+ammar2> dx: expensive for bandwith
10:59 < dx> lol
10:59 < Yoshi2> changing that byte might add considerable overhead
10:59 <+md_5> ssh
10:59 < Grum> i'm actually not seeing where the 0xFE gets used >.>
10:59 <+md_5> lets stop questioning
10:59 <+md_5> and actually have a reasonable chance of getting these changes
11:00  * SinZ wishs Dinnerbro was here
11:00 <+md_5> Grum check PendingConnection or whatever you call it, handlerPacket254
11:00 <+md_5> it decides which version of 0xFF to send
11:00 < SinZ> I want to question him on how the new login server works
11:00 -!- shoghicp [~shoghicp@77.225.6.14] has joined #mcdevs
11:00 < Grum> yes but that is the reply
11:00 < Grum> there seems to be no source for 0xFE in our code
11:00 < SinZ> 0xFE is the most boring packet in the protocol
11:00 < SinZ> as everything about it gets handled in 0xFF
11:02 <+ammar2> its the most interesting packet in the protocol SinZ
11:02 <+ammar2> it contains the fabled Schrödinger's byte
11:03 < dx> i was thinking 'interesting packet paradox'
11:03 < SinZ> Grum: stop using quantum physics over the wire
11:04 <+md_5> seriously guys
11:04 < TobiX> Well, since we are talking about it, 0xFE must be quite interesting ;)
11:04 < unnicked177> it would be nice to make a packet which will instruct the client to download updated client from link that is provided into packet, and replace the running client with it
11:04 < unnicked177> updates will become really seamless
11:04 <+md_5> lolwat
11:04 <+md_5> what are you smoking
11:04 <+md_5> think through what you just said
11:04  * unnicked177 thinked
11:04 < unnicked177> yeah, sounds nice
11:05 < SinZ> how is that useful at all
11:05 <+md_5> "lets add a way to download and run any software"
11:05 < SinZ> client and server should both be latest offical version.
11:05 <+ammar2> SinZ: how else will I extract the lastlogin file from the server side
11:05 <+ammar2> silly goose
11:05 < unnicked177> SinZ: what if server was updated while clients were connected to previous version?
11:05 < unnicked177> then they must be disconnected, right?
11:05 <+md_5> oh jeezus
11:05 < SinZ> unnicked177: clients will be kicked, and told to update
11:06 < unnicked177> SinZ: well that's ugly
11:06 < unnicked177> with proposed packet players won't notice a thing
11:06 < unnicked177> maybe just some lagging if their pc/internet is slow
11:06 <+ammar2> agreed
11:06 <+md_5> .....
11:06 <+ammar2> this is going to make the protocol 100% better
11:06 <+ammar2> pls implement ASAP
11:06 < Grum> ugh this code is terribadly hacky
11:06 < SinZ> Grum: Rewrite it for 1.6.1
11:06 < Grum> eventhough i want to do the change, doing it might not actually be feasable >.>
11:06 <+ammar2> Grum looks at the minecraft codebase
11:07 <+md_5> hm
11:07 <+ammar2> Grum: YOU GAVE US HOPE
11:07 <+md_5> do I have a client decompilation handy somewhere
11:07 < Grum> md_5: there is some horribly backwards compat magic going on
11:07 <+md_5> its not horrible Grum 
11:07 <+md_5> its an if else statement
11:07 < Grum> it is
11:08 < TobiX> Instant backdoor protocol - I like it!
11:08 <+md_5> if (packet.a) s = "xxx" else s = "yyy"
11:08 < Grum> yeah its not that simple md_5
11:08 <+md_5> that is literally what I am reading the code in front of me to be
11:08 < Grum> it *is* backwards compatible to old versions
11:08 <+md_5> yes
11:08 <+md_5> and you can continue to do so
11:08 < Grum> by fudging the timeout to be lower for that specific packet
11:08 <+md_5> yes
11:08 <+md_5> we dont need to change ANY of that
11:09 <+md_5> we just literally need the client side constructor of packet 254 changed to actually set the byte
11:09 < Grum> except that we'll be adding more of this horrible code :/
11:09 <+md_5> wat
11:09 < Grum> there is no clientside constructor of that packet
11:09 <+md_5> let me download MCP and give you a .patch file to look at
11:09 <+md_5> fair?
11:09 < Grum> not needed, there simply is no clientsided constructor
11:09 <+md_5> so make one
11:09 <+md_5> ._.
11:10 < Grum> the 'packet' is manually made :(
11:10 < TobiX> unnicked177: In-protocol downloads have never worked well for game servers. Just send "There is an update - please install it.", KICK, problem solved.
11:11 < SinZ> md_5: I have a mcp instance open infront of me, WritePacketData is abstract for that packet
11:11 <+md_5> no seriously just gimme 5 minutes and Ill have a patch your way
11:11 <+md_5> decompiling as we speak
11:11 < Grum> let me first fix up the mess
11:11 < Grum> and then i can look into adding more
11:11 < unnicked177> TobiX: what is player in engaged with important PvP (carrying stacks of diamonds)
11:12 < unnicked177> it gets kicked and killed
11:13 -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has joined #mcdevs
11:13 < jast> for a client to support seamless updates in game, the server would have to support the same
11:14 < jast> both are pretty tricky to implement
11:14 < jast> as long as the server doesn't support it, the only place in which sending such a packet to the client makes sense is during login
11:15 < unnicked177> what is tricky there?
11:15 < jast> a kick during login hardly causes gameplay issues
11:15 < unnicked177> jast: potentially it can
11:15 < jast> yeah, potentially zergs exist, yadda yadda, I know,
11:15 < unnicked177> i.e. you found a huge amount of diamond ore, then you got kicked
11:16 < unnicked177> you update client, connect and see that somebody already dug it all out
11:16 < jast> yes, but you only get kicked while you're connecting to the server
11:16 < unnicked177> how so
11:16 < jast> unless the server supports seamlessly switching to a new binary (which would be the only thing that could require the client to upgrade, too)
11:16 < unnicked177> jast: when server restarts, you get kicked too
11:17 < jast> yes, unless you support seamless updates (which is hard, and it needs to be in both server and client)
11:18 < unnicked177> jast: so my argument stays. you can find a lot of diamond ore, then get kicked and smoebody else will dig it out
11:18 < unnicked177> just because he will have faster internet/pc and will update faster than you.
11:18 < unnicked177> seamless updates are the only way of doing updates without destroying gameplay
11:19 <+md_5> done
11:19 <+md_5> 2 lines of code change
11:19 < SinZ> oh neat, I found where Minecraft Client sends Packet254
11:19 < dx> md_5: \o/
11:20 < Grum> md_5: its *far* more
11:20 < SinZ> very ugly indeed Grum
11:20 <+md_5> no...
11:20 < Grum> actually
11:20 <+md_5> its 2 lines
11:20 <+md_5> ...
11:20 < Grum> nah more than two lines at least :)
11:20 < Grum> minimal is ~13 orso :p
11:20 <+md_5> here 
11:20 <+md_5> hurry up gist
11:21 < Grum> just reading the stuff of the protocol means ~6 lines :P
11:21 < Grum> (and writing)
11:21 <+md_5> Grum https://gist.github.com/md-5/f7b09e6da137e6828ec8
11:21 <+md_5> I spot 2 lines
11:21 < Grum> yeah
11:21 <+md_5> how many do you?
11:21 < Grum> and that is wrong.
11:21 <+md_5> "wrong"
11:21 < Grum> i'm doing the full change obviously ;)
11:22 <+ammar2> but thats just the proto version md_5
11:22 <+md_5> there is quite possibly nothing else you can do
11:22 <+ammar2> no host/port
11:22 <+md_5> thats all I was going for
11:22 <+md_5> host and port, ez pz
11:23 < dx> grum wants to refactor the whole thing but at the same time doesn't want to refactor the whole thing
11:23 < SinZ> it should be using Packet254ServerPing.WritePacketData
11:23 < SinZ> but that function doesn't do anything, so it needs to start doing something
11:24 <+md_5> https://gist.github.com/md-5/f7b09e6da137e6828ec8
11:24 <+md_5> @@ Grum 
11:25 < Grum> almost md_5; i actually like the > 71
11:25 < Grum> eventhough its magical
11:26 <+md_5> I assume you have constants in the actual code
11:26 <+md_5> but obfuscator ofc strips them
11:26 <+ammar2> lol
11:26 <+ammar2> you have high expectations
11:26 < Grum> should be 73 ;)
11:26 < Grum> we cant use the constant
11:26 < Grum> as it will change over time obviously
11:26 <+md_5> you can make another constant
11:26 < Grum> yeah doing just that
11:26 <+md_5> VERSION_WHEN_PING_FIELD_WAS_CREATED = 73
11:27 <+md_5> if (readThing >= VERSION_WHEN_PING_FIELD_WAS_CREATED)
11:27 < Grum> WHEN_MD_5_GOT_ME_TIRED
11:27 < dx> loling
11:27 <+ammar2> ONE_SMALL_STEP_FOR_MCDEVS
11:28 < SinZ> md_5: so 9 lines for full implementation
11:28 < Grum> nah a bit more
11:28 < Grum> this justifies comments ;)
11:28 <+md_5> 8 lines
11:28 < Grum> also the sending of the packet has to be updated obviously :)
11:28 <+md_5> + 1 brace
11:28 <+md_5> + 5 comments
11:28 < unnicked177> you can script constant creation based on git history i think
11:28 <+md_5> Grum the packet isnt even 'sent' :p
11:28 < Grum> now it is!
11:28 < unnicked177> will save you a lot of work
11:29 < SinZ> I expect 1.6.1 to be known as the MCDevs patch
11:29 < unnicked177> i.e. VERSION_WHEN_WAS_f443e32e
11:29 < Grum> unnicked177: not really useful
11:29 < Grum> also not possible ;)
11:29 < Grum> because it goes from when i do the commit
11:29 < Grum> and ic annot know the sha ;)
11:29 <+md_5> why did you take what unnicked177 said seriously?
11:30 < SinZ> he is in the ban todo list
11:30 < Grum> haha
11:30 < unnicked177> SinZ: lol, how so
11:30 < SinZ> I don't need to answer that...
11:31 < unnicked177> you don't need to say anything, btw
11:32 <+md_5> oh well Grum , thanks for the work you have done this morning, hopefully its just the start of a cooperative relationship :)
11:33 <+ammar2> too friendly
11:33 < unnicked177> you want relationship with Grum?
11:33 < unnicked177> why?..
11:33 < Yoshi2> why not?
11:33 <+ammar2> unnicked177: men have needs
11:33 < dx> i agree with Yoshi2 here
11:34 < unnicked177> ammar2: i thought exactly that when he put his "cooperative relationship" request
11:35 < dx> well yeah, he needs to have proper virtual hosting
11:35 < dx> having a cooperative relationship helps achieve this and other goals
11:35 < unnicked177> so he is trying to use Grum for his own needs?
11:36 < Grum> too much weird stuff in this code
11:36 < Grum> but it should be 'ok' now :/
11:36 < TobiX> unnicked177 is only here for entertainment ;)
11:37 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
11:39 -!- Yoshi2 [~chatzilla@xdsl-87-78-40-148.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130511120803]]
11:40 -!- Yoshi2 [~Yoshi2@xdsl-87-78-40-148.netcologne.de] has joined #mcdevs
11:40 < Grum> md_5: doing it 'properly'  4 files changed, 43 insertions(+), 10 deletions(-)
11:40 < Grum> o.O
11:40 < Grum> hmm more even
11:40 < Grum> this is not proper yet >.>
11:41  * AlphaBlend nerfs Grum's golden apple stash to half its contents
11:41 < unnicked177> Grum: welcome to java :)
11:41 < dx> ..
11:42 < Grum> has nothing to do with java obviously
11:42 < Grum> has everything to do with doing it 'right;
11:42 <+md_5> fixing the original issue
11:42 <+md_5> and redoing the code
11:42 <+md_5> are two different things
11:42 <+md_5> you cant compare them
11:43 < Grum> fixing it properly is more work though :)
11:43 < Grum> i mean, i'd be only making the code worse if i wouldnt do that
11:43 < AlphaBlend> ^
11:43 < AlphaBlend> is refactoring fun Grum? :P
11:44 < dx> not every addition to shitty code means making it worse
11:44 <+ammar2> they've been refactoring over the last year, many fun times to be had
11:44 < Grum> necessary evil
11:44 < Grum> dx: in this case it is
11:44 < AlphaBlend> oh of course!
11:44 < Grum> it has like 10 red flags :)
11:45 -!- shoghicp [~shoghicp@77.225.6.14] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
11:45 < AlphaBlend> ammar2: Yeh, refactoring may be boring, but it might result in much more fun in the end, because neater code :D
11:46 -!- unnicked177 [~d45d641f@204.155.152.124] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)]
11:48 < Grum>  5 files changed, 49 insertions(+), 11 deletions(-)
11:48 < Grum> jeej
11:50 < Grum> http://pastie.org/private/i8bobrpmbbyvhs2txsgdq
11:50 < dav1d> Grum: are you doing something fancy?
11:50 <+md_5> thanks
11:50 < Grum> md_5: the complete production diff ^^
11:50  * md_5 crosses off list
11:50 < dav1d> I always miss the intersting stuff
11:50 < Grum> md_5: tons of fun not? :/
11:50 < dav1d> I should let znc log or increase the backlog to 2000lines -.-
11:51 <+md_5> thats not what I would call difficult :|
11:51 < Grum> not sure where it is called difficult
11:51 < Grum> its more than your 'straightforward fix'
11:51 <+md_5> Grum :
11:51 <+md_5> + public boolean isLegacy() {
11:51 <+md_5> + return version == LEGACY_PROTOCOL_VERSION;
11:51 < Grum> fail!
11:51 <+md_5> oh 
11:51 < Grum> != ... :p
11:51 <+md_5> nevermind
11:52 < Grum> oh wait
11:52 < Grum> no
11:52 < Grum> that is right =)
11:52 <+md_5> nah I thought you had set LEGACY to 61
11:52 < Grum> lol when i just glanced it i did the same as you ;)
11:52 < Grum> yeah
11:52 <+ammar2> PROTOCOL_VERSION_WITH_UPDATED_PINGPACKET, disappointing name
11:52 <+md_5> yeah moar hyphen, PING_PACKET
11:53 < Grum> now named: HOST_PORT_INTRODUCTION_PROTOCOL_VERSION
11:53 < Grum> which is actually a better name :P
11:53 < Grum> i still dislike it
11:53 < dx> yeah, still doesn't mention md_5
11:53 < Grum> but meh; best be descriptive :(
11:53 < Grum> now sure why it should :P
11:54 -!- unnicked177 [~d45d641f@204.155.152.124] has joined #mcdevs
11:54 < Grum> Add host/port to GetInfoPacket (254). Thanks to md_5 for persisting it should exist. <-- ? :D
11:54 <+md_5> :D
11:54 <+md_5> second mention ever: https://gist.github.com/Dinnerbone/1974247
11:54 <+md_5> "Fixed:
11:54 <+md_5> - Fixed godmode exploit (Thanks md_5)"
11:55  * md_5 huggles Grum 
11:55 < Grum> now i have to test it
11:55 < Grum> so much fun!
11:55 < Grum> someone gimme a server i can send this new packet to :P
11:55 < Grum> oh wait
11:57 < Grum> now find me the jira ticket for this md_5!
11:57 <+md_5> ._.
11:57 <+ammar2> no jira tickets for suggestions!
11:57 <+ammar2> take it to the mc forums
11:57 <+md_5> ^^
11:57 <+ammar2> because thats the best place for technically orientated suggestions
11:57 <+ammar2> I'm sure the prrofessional modders will love it
11:57 < Grum> quite sure there must be a ticket for it
11:58 < Grum> hmmmz its not working as intended somehow :/
11:58 <+md_5> MC-137
11:58 <+md_5> @@ Grum 
11:59 < Grum> yeah meh not working properly :/
11:59 < dx> Resolution: Works As Intended
11:59 < dx> fun
12:00 < Grum> yeaah there are issues md5
12:00 <+ammar2> what sorta issues
12:03 < Grum> backwards compat ones obviously :/
12:03 <+md_5> Grum https://gist.github.com/md-5/f7b09e6da137e6828ec8#file-production-diff-L78
12:03 <+md_5> oh
12:03 <+md_5> nevermind
12:03 <+md_5> obfuscation is fun
12:10 < dav1d> readUtf?
12:10 < dav1d> really?
12:10 < dav1d> can we have utf-8?
12:11 <+ammar2> dav1d: baby steps
12:11 < dav1d> ammar2: this is a ... yes?
12:11 < dav1d> awesome
12:11 < dx> dav1d: unfortunately ammar2 isn't a minecraft developer
12:11 < dav1d> dx: so no?
12:11 <+ammar2> there's hope
12:12 <+ammar2> but most likely not in the near future
12:12 < dav1d> but in md_5's diff is readUtf?
12:12 -!- Yoshi2 [~Yoshi2@xdsl-87-78-40-148.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
12:12 <+md_5> its just obfuscation
12:12 < dx> other parts of the code that he didn't modify used that name too
12:12 < dx> so it's probably just an alias to whatever function reads UCS-2
12:13 < dav1d> nooooo
12:13 <+ammar2> cruel mojang
12:13 < dav1d> The java.io.DataInputStream.readUTF() method reads in a string that has been encoded using a modified UTF-8 format. 
12:13 < dav1d> :(
12:13 < dx> it used to be like that
12:13 < dav1d> notice the difference?
12:13 < dav1d> readUtf - readUTF
12:14 < dx> that readUtf is part of Packet, not dis, lol
12:14 <+ammar2> also that is DataInputStream.readUTF, this is their own Packet
12:14 < dav1d> oh
12:14 < dav1d> haven't seen that^^
12:14 < dav1d> too early!
12:15 < unnicked177> UCS-2 is a pita to implement, also it double the traffic for strings, why mojang use it?
12:15 < dx> IIRC the last time we talked about utf-8 vs ucs-2 we reached the conclusion that nobody knows why they switched to UCS-2
12:15 < dx> not even grum
12:15 <+ammar2> Grum: '[EB]' in the comment, those your initials?
12:15 < dav1d> UCS-2 is not a pita to implement, it just sucks
12:15 <+ammar2> if so, why not git blame ;_;
12:15 < unnicked177> dx: sounds like conspiracy
12:15 < dx> ..
12:16 < unnicked177> well i can think of only 1 legit reason - predetermined length to read
12:16 < dx> nope
12:16 < dx> nothing stops you from getting the utf-8 bytestring length
12:16 < unnicked177> dx: i mean - with UCS-2, a string of length 8 occupies 16 bytes
12:16 < unnicked177> so you can send it in packet prior to sending this string
12:17 < unnicked177> with UTF-8, string of length 8 can occupy different size
12:17 < unnicked177> so you will have to read it byte-by-byte
12:17 < unnicked177> hm, can be worked around by specifying byte size instead of length in short prior to it
12:17 < dx> or just send a different length prefix that shows number of bytes instead of number of unicode  code points...
12:17 < dx> ye
12:17 < unnicked177> yeah
12:18 <+ammar2> which is what dos.writeUTF does
12:18 < dx> so we're back to "nobody knows why"
12:19 < unnicked177> Grum: any chance of starting using UTF-8 instead of UCS-16 everywhere?
12:19 < unnicked177> and sending its byte size instead of length
12:19 < unnicked177> seems like minor fix
12:19 < dav1d> because minecraft :(
12:19 < dav1d> the problem is not UCS-2 but correct UCS-2
12:19 < dx> "correct UCS-2"?
12:19 < Grum> unnicked177: make java do it?
12:19 < dav1d> I fear the date someone sends a character which doesn't fit into UCS-2 and I encode it as utf-16
12:19 < unnicked177> dav1d: the problem is - twice the traffic is sent for every string, even if it's ASCII (which is 99% cases)
12:20 < dav1d> Grum: java already does it
12:20 < unnicked177> Grum: yeah, or switch to python/php
12:20 < Grum> we just use java's crap? :/
12:20 -!- SpaceManiac [~SpaceMani@r74-192-152-131.gtwncmta01.grtntx.tl.dh.suddenlink.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
12:20 <+ammar2> yes
12:20 < dav1d> unnicked177: that doesn't amtter, not a lot of strings are sent in comparison to other packets
12:20 < dav1d> Grum: yes?
12:20 <+ammar2> Packet.writeUtf = dos.writeUTF
12:20 < dav1d> Grum: dis.readUTF(...)
12:20 < unnicked177> dav1d: quite a lot, i.e. in players list
12:20 < Grum> dav1d: because we need a custom-max-length ?
12:20 < unnicked177> also utf-8 allows for more characters
12:20 < dav1d> unnicked177: in comparison to other packets that is nothing
12:20 < unnicked177> not just 65536 max
12:20 < dav1d> Grum: why?
12:21 < Grum> hm it is rather 'weird'
12:21 < Grum> dav1d: because you can send a string that is 1000gb big?
12:21 < unnicked177> dav1d: what other packets?
12:21 < Grum> and we'll keep reading until we get it?
12:21 < unnicked177> 0x38? well its sent rarely
12:21 < dav1d> Grum: I can't think of a reason, no you can't
12:21 < dav1d> Grum: max is short.max
12:21 < Grum> yes you can?
12:21 < Grum> yes because WE enforcethat
12:21 < dav1d> Grum: dis.writeUTF prefixes with a short
12:21 < Grum> but you cannot use dis.readUTF() with a length argument
12:21 < unnicked177> Grum: and you don't need t.
12:21 < unnicked177> to.
12:21 < Grum> if you use the java dis/dos read/write UTF8
12:21 < unnicked177> or, you can send both
12:22 < dav1d> Grum: ... checking this and using it is really trivial, also readUTF excepts a short
12:22 < unnicked177> byte size, then length
12:22 < unnicked177> then UTF-8 string
12:22 < dav1d> Grum: if someone sends a manipulated string. .. whatever maximum is short.max bytes
12:22 < Grum> maybe it actually does in 1.6
12:22 < dav1d> Grum: this is *less* than what is possible atm with UCS-2
12:22 < Grum> nope. readUTF() takes no length arguments
12:22 < dav1d> Grum: I know
12:22 < Grum> we're just reading/writing java chars
12:22 < dav1d> Grum: it reads a short, then reads N bytes (N = short)
12:23 < dav1d> Grum: writeUTF writes a short then N bytes (utf-8)
12:23 < dav1d> Grum: atm you send a short but representing the codepoints = short.max*2 bytes
12:23 < dav1d> that is the double amount someone can make the server read with a faked packet
12:23 < unnicked177> Grum: also, you may want to try EUC-JP (which is a three-byte encoding), that way more characters will be available to you
12:23 < Grum> 64k actually
12:23 <+ammar2> also, whats the worst thats gonna happen if someone sends you a long string? Its all on the network reader thread
12:23 < unnicked177> ( you can substitute japanese glyphs with any chars you need )
12:24 < dav1d> Grum: so you use ushort? well makes no difference
12:24 < Grum> ammar2: you can trivially dos a server with it ;(
12:24 < dx> dataoutputstream a server
12:24 < dav1d> Grum: situation would not get worse if you change it to the java builtins
12:24 < dav1d> if you want a length-check, that is really trivial
12:24 < Grum> except that we can limit it to our lengths of strings
12:24 < dav1d> that is trivial..
12:24 < Grum> dav1d: not without copying code frmo java's sourcebase
12:25 < dav1d> Grum: and what are you doing now?
12:25 < Grum> not that?
12:25 < dav1d> Grum: right... implementing shitty UCS-2
12:25 < Grum> we just poop chars into the pipe
12:25 <+ammar2> Grum: you can add in your own length prefix
12:25 < dx> reading a length and encoding/decoding utf-8 from/to a bytestring is not rocket science
12:25 <+ammar2> along with read/writeUTF
12:25 < Grum> ammar2: that wont make any idfference and will just add useless numbers to the stream (as writeUT8 will do it too)
12:26 < unnicked177> dav1d: there is no need to use UTF-8 for minecraft
12:26 < unnicked177> reading UTF-8 has much worse performance
12:26 -!- Calinou [~Calinou@unaffiliated/calinou] has quit [Quit: Excess Flood]
12:26 < Grum> we cant even render most of the weird glyphs properly :P
12:26 < dav1d> Grum: writeUTF for sending, readUTF (self-implemented) which reads a short, then N bytes and makes utf-8 out of it
12:26 < unnicked177> and you can't sacrifice performance in minecraft (which is low enough already)
12:26 < dav1d> Grum: that can't be hard
12:26 < Grum> dav1d: possible
12:26 < dav1d> unnicked177: wtf
12:26 < unnicked177> dav1d: what is the point of using UTF-8?
12:26 < dav1d> unnicked177: it sends bytes not codepoints
12:27 < unnicked177> dav1d: codepoints?
12:27 < Grum> i first have to hack this md_5 crap working
12:27 < Grum> old servers choke on the new data and close the connection
12:27 < dav1d> unnicked177: yeah get your facts straight before yelling
12:27 < Grum> SO MUCH FUN
12:27 < dav1d> Grum: will you consider it if I can write you a readUTF function which does exactly what you want?
12:27 < dav1d> I release it under the Grum-License, too
12:28 < Grum> dav1d: yeah
12:28 < unnicked177> dav1d: the facts - 1) UCS-2 is faster to read (you know the bytes size AND the length) 2) UCS-2 is fast to convert to ASCII (just get every second byte)
12:28 < dav1d> Grum: awesome!
12:28 < dav1d> unnicked177: wrong
12:28 < Grum> dav1d: keep in mind you have quite some libs you can use!
12:28 < unnicked177> dav1d: with UTF-8 you must parse a byte to know how to parse the next byte...
12:28 < dav1d> Grum: speaking of java std.lib only
12:28 < dav1d> unnicked177: wrong
12:28 < unnicked177> that involves loop with lots of ifs
12:28 < unnicked177> dav1d: why?
12:28 < Grum> dav1d: you have commons-io etc
12:28 < dx> also lol
12:28 < dav1d> unnicked177: write utf-8 prefixes with the number of bytes not codepoints
12:28 < Grum> use it please :P
12:28 < dx> unnicked177 seriously suggested EUC-JP instead of UTF-8
12:28 < dav1d> Grum: commons-io is a package?
12:29 < dav1d> ← java nub
12:29 < Grum> dav1d: yes
12:29 < dav1d> anyways I'll figure it out
12:29 < unnicked177> dx: why not? it's faster than UTF-8 and allows for more chars than UCS-2
12:29 < dav1d> Grum: will do, awesome!
12:29 < Grum> dav1d: everyone can copy the horrible code; i rather not have code that i cannot test
12:29 < dav1d> unnicked177: really?
12:29 < Grum> so use a library == win
12:29 <+ammar2> dav1d: http://pastie.org/private/eqiomyhthcyt8xqhesba
12:29 <+ammar2> oops
12:29 < dav1d> unnicked177: utf-8 supports twice as many as ucs-32
12:29 < dav1d> *ucs-2
12:29 < unnicked177> dav1d: please read my sentence again
12:29 < unnicked177> carefully
12:29 < Grum> ammar2: writing is the easy part; we do not have to do anything for that
12:30 < dav1d> ammar2: is that from the std.lib?
12:30 < unnicked177> "allows for more chars than UCS-2"
12:30 <+ammar2> dav1d: yar
12:30 < unnicked177> "faster than UTF-8"
12:30 < Grum> reading has to take a limit
12:30 <+ammar2> Grum: and it can! int utflen = in.readUnsignedShort();
12:30 <+ammar2> if you manage to hit a char lenght above it
12:30 <+ammar2> break out
12:30 < Thinkofdeath> About the string length issue above: Do you check the length of strings/arrays in nbt data? (Like in the place block packet)
12:31 < dav1d> dammit random dc
12:31 < dav1d> ammar2: awesome thanks
12:31 < dav1d> Grum: sure, I understand that
12:31 < Grum> i'm actually wrapping this new data in a custom-data-packet >.>
12:31 < Grum> so the remote server wont choke on it
12:31 < Grum> >.>
12:32 <+md_5> I dont see how the remote server could choke
12:32 <+md_5> it doesnt choke on the 0x00 sent
12:32 < Grum> it chokes on the byte after that
12:32 <+md_5> how?
12:32 < Grum> and isntantly closes the connection
12:32 <+md_5> it shouldnt try to read anymore
12:32 < Grum> java.io.IOException: Bad packet id 111
12:32 < Grum> 	at ei.a(SourceFile:193)
12:32 < Grum> 	at ci.i(SourceFile:250)
12:32 < Grum> 	at ci.c(SourceFile:16)
12:32 < Grum> except that it does
12:32 <+md_5> well
12:32 < Grum> and .... we cannot change the old behavior
12:32 <+md_5> the best fix imho
12:33 <+md_5> since the server closes when it sends 0xFF
12:33 <+md_5> therefore any packets after FE will NEVER EVER get handled anyway
12:33 <+md_5> is to just
12:33 <+md_5> if (readPacket instanceof GetInfo) ReaderThread.interrupt9
12:33 <+md_5> or however you want to shut that thread down
12:34 < Grum> we cant do that for old servers obviously >.>
12:34 <+md_5> :(
12:34 <+md_5> riight
12:34 < Grum> yeah
12:34 < Grum> and that is the issue
12:34 <+md_5> add a random magic byte
12:34 <+md_5> that is a valid MC packet
12:34 <+ammar2> new packet pls
12:34 < Grum> i am adding magic bytes so the content after it seem like a packet 250
12:34 <+md_5> and it will try to read, but just hang until 0xFF is sent
12:34 < Grum> yup
12:34 < Grum> just what i am doing now
12:34 <+ammar2> oh god
12:34 < Grum> but GOD IT IS UGLY
12:35 <+md_5> write(0XFA) write(totalLength) write(data)
12:35 < Grum> yeaaah not really
12:35 < Grum> it has a string in it too
12:37 < dx> wait, did i get it right, the old servers keep reading the rest of the 0xFE payload as new packets?
12:37 <+ammar2> yes
12:37 <+md_5> brb
12:37 <+md_5> exploting
12:37 <+ammar2> and it can't be changed now, that code is on all the servers ^o^
12:37 <+md_5> exploiting
12:37 < dx> so basically
12:37 < dx> if the 0xFE payload starts with 0xFF + string, it will work
12:38 <+ammar2> anything you send after schrondiger's byte will be read as a new packet
12:38 <+md_5> schrondigers byte will be too
12:38 <+md_5> old servers are sitting there waiting for a keepalive int
12:38 <+ammar2> oh lel
12:39 < Grum> meh wrapping it in a 250 doesnt seem to work .. so much fun .....
12:40 <+md_5> dx has a better idea
12:40 <+md_5> : 0xFE 0x01 0xFF <string with hostname, port and... version>
12:40 <+md_5> actually
12:40 <+md_5> nope that wont work
12:41 < Grum> sendind 0xFE, 0x01, 0xFA, String"", SizeOfPayload ... and then the normal data
12:42 <+ammar2> Grum: breaks for the really old servers
12:42 <+ammar2> they don't expect schrondiger's byte, they'll interpret it as keep alive
12:42 <+ammar2> then the next 4 bytes will be the keep alive id int
12:42 <+ammar2> so your plugin message gets eaten up
12:42 < Grum> i do not really care for *really* old servers
12:42 < dav1d> md_5: anything which speaks against `new String(bytes, "UTF-8")`?
12:42 <+ammar2> SEE THIS IS WHERE PACKET LENGTHS WOULD BE USEFUL
12:43 < Grum> not really ammar2
12:43 <+md_5> dav1d nope
12:43 < dav1d> then it'll be really easy
12:43 < Grum> dav1d: Charsets.UTF8
12:43 < dav1d> Grum: alright!
12:43 < Grum> becuse that throws an invalid charset exception
12:43  * dav1d starts intellji
12:44 <+ammar2> Grum: well if you don't care about older servers then your plugin message wrap works fine
12:44 -!- ranie [~rramiso@124.6.182.55] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:44 < Grum> ammar2: i have to care for 1.5.2
12:44 < Grum> not for 1.2.x
12:46 < Thinkofdeath> Grum: Looking at the code, no length checks are done on strings/arrays in nbt data (or the size of the nbt data), doesn't that have the same issue as with large strings?
12:46 < Grum> that is different
12:46 < dx> Thinkofdeath: don't talk to grum about nbt
12:46 < dx> Thinkofdeath: he really really really really hates that code
12:46 < Thinkofdeath> dx: :)
12:47 < unnicked177> what is the point of nbt?
12:47 < unnicked177> why not just keep everything as byte array?
12:47 < dx> funny guy
12:48 < dx> might as well ask "what is the point of data structures" or "what is the point of abstraction"
12:48 < Grum> unnicked177: because nested data is totally not needed
12:49 <+ammar2> why are you guys taking unnicked177 seriously again
12:49 < dx> i'm not, i said it's funny
12:49 <+ammar2> why are you grums*
12:49 < dx> lol
12:50 < Grum> BECAUSE I CAN FUCKING DO WHATEVER I FUCKING PLEASE ammar2.
12:50 < dx> \o/
12:50 < Grum> got that?
12:50 <+ammar2> CAPS LOCK: CRUISE CONTROL FOR AWESOME
12:50 < Grum> now *STFU*
12:50 <+ammar2> lel
12:51 < SinZ> Grum: am I supposed to beable to make my clientToken with Yggdrasil to be anything I want?
12:51 < Dinnerbone> Make it something unique to that instance of the client. If you don't send one, you'll get one back - save it.
12:51 < Dinnerbone> An account can only be logged in on 6 different clients, based on IDs
12:52 < SinZ> oh, I don't need to send it?
12:52 < SinZ> yay
12:52 < dx> TIL "yggdrasil" is the only way to highlight Dinnerbone on irc
12:52 <+ammar2> on #mcdevs*
12:52 < Dinnerbone> But you should, because as I just said - you can only be on 6 different ones, and one is generated if you don't send one
12:53 <+md_5> where is the api doc for yggrdrasil
12:53 < Dinnerbone> Isn't one
12:53 < SinZ> md_5: in the launcher.jar file that bootstrap 4.0 will allow you to use
12:54 < SinZ> it is a https post to http://authserver.mojang.com/authenticate with the post data being json
12:55 < SinZ> {"agent":"Agent{name='minecraft', version=1}","username":%USERNAME%,"password":%PASSWORD%}
12:55 <+ammar2> thanks for the free account
12:56 < dx> wow this account is registered as mojang gold
12:58 < TobiX> Is Mojang Gold as awesome as Reddit Gold?
12:58 < SinZ> apparently my account has no "availableProfiles" in it
12:59 < Dinnerbone> SinZ: do you have (paid) minecraft on that account?
12:59 < SinZ> yup
12:59 < Dinnerbone> Version should be sent as a string
12:59 < Dinnerbone> And the agent is Minecraft not minecraft
12:59 < Dinnerbone> Agent == what game you're asking about
13:00 < SinZ> in the launcher it is MINECRAFT
13:00 < SinZ> oh wait, mis-read
13:00 < Dinnerbone> Yep you did :p
13:00 < Dinnerbone> public static final Agent MINECRAFT = new Agent("Minecraft", 1);
13:00 < Dinnerbone> Actually version can be an int!
13:00 < Dinnerbone> But the name is still Minecraft
13:01 -!- unnicked177 [~d45d641f@204.155.152.124] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC]
13:01 -!- unnicked177 [~d45d641f@204.155.152.124] has joined #mcdevs
13:01 <+md_5> you mean we can finally have multiple names per email
13:01 <+md_5> shrug
13:01 <+md_5> changeable names
13:01 <+md_5> thats gonna lead to spam
13:01 <+md_5> and stupid names
13:02 < Dinnerbone> Stupid names aren't possible right now?
13:02 < Dinnerbone> Well I didn't know that :)
13:02 < SinZ> there are some account names in horrible 1337
13:02 <+md_5> I_LIKE_DX -> 10 minutes later IHATETHISSERVER
13:02 <+md_5> etc etc etc
13:02 < dx> ._.
13:03 < Dinnerbone> If they don't mind paying every 10 minutes sure that's up to them
13:03 < dav1d> mh not so trivial at all
13:03 < SinZ> you can't change your name yet still, but >1 account per email is possible now
13:03 < dx> mojang won't mind either
13:03 <+md_5> no one mentioned cash :(
13:03 < dav1d> y u use custom utf-8
13:03 < Dinnerbone> You just ban them from your server if they're spamming you
13:03 < SinZ> (you can get a deal with Mojang support to have your name changed, only if you owned the non-premium account beforehand though)
13:03 < Dinnerbone> Name changes aren't a golden ticket out of trouble
13:04 <+md_5> permissions files are gonna be fun
13:04 <+md_5> uuid_goes_here
13:04 < SinZ> yeh, Servers don't like it when your name changes
13:04 < Dinnerbone> One of the many reasons I've always said stuff like that should be through a tool and not written by hand ;)
13:05 < SinZ> you don't realise how much stuff is bound to your name until it changes
13:05 < dx> yeah, god damn lockette chests
13:05 < dx> they say [Private] and a list of usernames in the following lines
13:05 < SinZ> and warps/homes
13:06 < SinZ> and being able to build in areas
13:06 < SinZ> and inventory / enderchest
13:06 < dx> some of the players of my server switched accounts and had a lot of fun removing each sign from each one of the hundreds of chests they owned
13:07 < dx> i should have written a worldedit craftscript to fix that...
13:12 < TobiX> dx: No, let them work for this. This pretty much gurantees they never do it again ;)
13:12 < SinZ> Im still getting no activeProfiles, https://github.com/SinZ163/SinZ-MC-Launcher/blob/3c843300471e4dddcbec0784477b500f3eb2b908/SinZ%20MC%20Launcher/Login/Yggdrasil.cs#L36
13:13 < SinZ> wow that link is huge
13:13 < dx> SinZ: you can usually shorten these by replacing the commit sha1 by a branch like "master"
13:14 < SinZ> the commit made it easier to find the file
13:14 < dx> well actually a partial sha1 works too
13:14 < dx> cut it to the first 8 chars or so
13:14 <+ammar2> SinZ: protip, open up repo, press 't'
13:15 <+ammar2> and enter your file name
13:15 <+ammar2> or at least the beggining o it
13:15 < SinZ> ooh, that is nice
13:16 < dx> https://github.com/SinZ163/SinZ-MC-Launcher/blob/3c84/SinZ%20MC%20Launcher.sln
13:16 < dx> 4 chars of sha1 :D
13:16 < dx> wait why did i link that file
13:17 < dx> oh right i tried the file search thing ammar2 mentioned
13:17 -!- SpaceManiac [~SpaceMani@r74-192-152-131.gtwncmta01.grtntx.tl.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #mcdevs
13:19 < dav1d> Grum: I guess you wouldn't like if I use the java-implementation and tweak it to take an additional max-length argument?
13:19 < Grum> not acceptable indeed
13:20 < Grum> you missed how oracle raped google for doing things like that? :D
13:20 < dav1d> well then, I have to reimplement that
13:20 < dav1d> alright
13:20 < Dinnerbone> <SinZ> Im still getting no activeProfiles, https://github.com/SinZ163/SinZ-MC-Launcher/blob/3c843300471e4dddcbec0784477b500f3eb2b908/SinZ%20MC%20Launcher/Login/Yggdrasil.cs#L36
13:20 < Dinnerbone> Uhh
13:20 < dav1d> y u use dumb self-implementation
13:20 < Dinnerbone> That's not how you json.
13:21 < SinZ> you guys turn a class into json, so it is hard to tell
13:21 < Grum> dav1d: because i do not want untestable code in my repo
13:21 < dav1d> Grum: why untestable?
13:21 < dav1d> Grum: writing unittests is trivial
13:22 < Grum> oh you are writing unittests for THAT code? :D
13:22 < Grum> do you even fully understand it so you can test the edgecases?
13:22 < dav1d> Grum: well if I implement it myself, yes
13:22 < Grum> or do you want to make it run through the full unicode table and see if it 'encodes/decodes' the same as java does?
13:22 < dav1d> Grum: well, we we could make it easier, let writeUTF send codepoints and byte-length
13:22 < Grum> (keep in mind, no unittest can take longer than 500ms :D)
13:22 < Grum> dav1d: which would mean what?
13:23 < Grum> 4byte for all data?
13:23 <+md_5> 500ms is trivial to encode the entire unicode sequence
13:23 <+md_5> ...
13:23 < dav1d> Grum: if codepoints > max-codepoints (characters), reject it
13:23 < dav1d> Grum: use worst-case (4 bytes) to determine if the byte-length is too long
13:23 < Grum> what would the max be? java uses chars internally to represent stuff
13:24 < Grum> which arent really >2byte codepoint compatible :P
13:24 < Grum> md_5: managed to get this horrible code hacked working backwards compatible :/
13:24 < dav1d> Grum: max = max characters
13:24 < dav1d> Grum: e.g. I think your max for usernames is 26 characters, so max-codepoints would be 26
13:24 < dav1d> then check, 26*4 > bytelength
13:25 < dav1d> well
13:25 < dav1d> one could also infere the from the bytelength
13:25 < dav1d> if that is good for you, it would be relativly easy
13:25 < dav1d> bytes/4 > max_codepoints
13:26 < dav1d> but that is not accurate
13:26 < Grum> md_5: you're going to have a fieldday parsing this data :/
13:26 < dav1d> if you want it accurate you need to parse it on your own..
13:26 < Grum> http://pastie.org/private/zvxnufcduqmh7dmhu2dgw <-- md_5
13:26 < Grum> oh i can drop the "a" actually :P
13:27 <+md_5> just write "" as the payload?
13:27 < dav1d> SinZ: minecraft login changed?
13:27 <+md_5> instead of "a"
13:27 < SinZ> dav1d: new launcher, new login server
13:28 < dav1d> SinZ: the old post doesn't work anylonger?
13:28 < Grum> md_5: fixed: http://pastie.org/private/56wxmn1rfvxajnsyutola
13:28 < Grum> except for the horridl ocation of the static
13:28 < Grum> aaanyhow
13:28 < SinZ> dav1d: it wont work for 1.6
13:28 <+md_5> nonetheless having this is much needed imho
13:28 < dav1d> ah ok
13:28 < SinZ> it will continue to give the timestamp for 1.5.2
13:29 < Grum> md_5: just trying to show you how much unexpected shit comes up when you do a 'trivial change' like this
13:29 < Grum> anyhow, this should be fine now
13:30 < SinZ> pure hackery, but if you want backwards compatibility that much, it'll do
13:31 < Grum> so your theoretical 9-line-fix ends up being:  5 files changed, 68 insertions(+), 11 deletions(-)
13:31 <+md_5>     Packet.writeUtf("", dos);
13:31 <+md_5> could even call that "MC|PingHost"
13:31 <+md_5> or something
13:31 <+md_5> and make it an actual channel, since thats what it is, and thats how it will be read
13:31 < Grum> nah it wont be read like that
13:32 < Grum> but i can indeed
13:33 < Grum>  6 files changed, 69 insertions(+), 11 deletions(-)
13:33 < Grum> jeej. 69
13:35 <+md_5>         if ( version >= 72 )
13:35 <+md_5>         {
13:35 <+md_5>             connectHost = new PacketFAPluginMessage();
13:35 <+md_5>             connectHost.read( buf );
13:35 <+md_5>         }
13:35 <+md_5> thats what mine will look like
13:35 <+md_5> + add some glue to read from the PacketFAPluginMessage
13:36 < SinZ> Dinnerbone: Oh, the agent is a JSON Object, got it working now <3
13:37 < Grum>    d2e2be6..6831257  master -> master <-- totally pushed md_5
13:38 < Grum> now send me cake
13:38 < Grum> this was far more effort than i wanted to spend on it >.>
13:38 <+md_5> http://graybarnbaking.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/y11_5989-edit.jpg
13:38 <+md_5> md_5 & Grum 4eva
13:38 < dav1d> meh, DataOutputStream.writeUTF sucks :P
13:38 < dav1d> <- implemented his own
13:38 < Grum> dav1d: no kidding ;P
13:39 < dav1d> Grum: it really does, it uses some strange utf-8 modified stuff, I think for other streams than sockets
13:39 < Grum> so erm, what we *could* do is roll our own read/write stream -- the main issue is the decoding
13:39 < Grum> new String().getBytes(Charsets.UTF8)
13:39 < Grum> that gives us the right data to send
13:39 < SinZ> Dinnerbone: is the profile ID thing the sessionID I send to the client?
13:39 < Grum> but the other way around -- the decoding
13:39 < dav1d> Grum: I did it, worst case someone could maxLength*3 bad bytes send through
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13:39 <+md_5> Charsets.UTF8.decoder().decode(byte[])
13:40 <+md_5> or similar
13:40 < Grum> the issue is that you dont know if you have a complete byte
13:40 < Grum> erm  complete char :p
13:40 <+md_5> this is why we have the length?
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13:41 <+md_5> also another argument for packet length header is that it isnt non blocking friendly atm. You have to do a replay thing - throw exception / return magic value to indicate you need more data
13:41 < Grum> that still doesnt apply
13:41 < dav1d> md_5: that's not the problem
13:41 < Grum> hmm well in theory that might be enough
13:41 < Dinnerbone> SinZ: I would recommend you research all the situations that apply in this new auth service before trying to roll your own implementation of it.
13:42 < dav1d> md_5: Charset.UTF-8?
13:42 < dav1d> md_5: new Charset("UTF-8")?
13:42 < Dinnerbone> You're already ignoring the client token warnings I gave you
13:42 < Grum> dav1d: yes the same but no checked exceptions (1.6 support only)
13:42 <+md_5>    Charset.forName( "UTF-8");
13:42 < SinZ> I haven't finished implementing it, I will be saving it when its done
13:43 < Dinnerbone> May I ask why you're rolling your own launcher?
13:43 <+md_5> there are tons of launchers out there
13:43 < unnicked177> Dinnerbone: piracy reasons maybe :p
13:43 < Grum> BECAUSE MOJANG MAKES SUCKY THING SAND THEY DONT LISSUN TO US
13:43 <+md_5> mainly for mod management
13:44 < Grum> we'll actively try and break it! *promise*
13:44 < Dinnerbone> So just make the launcher run your custom program which manages mods. You don't have to break authentication or user experience or anything like that.
13:44 < SinZ> mod management is the main goal of this launcher, with the implementation of mod repositories for easy installation
13:45 <+md_5> much easier for users to have a custom launcher than one which they have to setup
13:45 < SinZ> trying to trick vannila launcher into going to my program would take longer than just writing my own
13:45 <+md_5> download -> click -> run
13:45 < dav1d> md_5, Grum: http://vp.dav1d.de/5TFlL?ReadUTF8.java proof of concept
13:45 < dav1d> buffer should probably cached
13:45 <+md_5> uh
13:45 <+md_5> why the / 4
13:45 < SinZ> its bad enough to trick the vannila launcher into using a different version.jar file
13:45 <+md_5> also  dos.writeShort(data.length() & 0xffff); // unsigned short
13:45 <+md_5> would be unsigned short
13:46 < dav1d> md_5: yeah just noticed that
13:46 < dav1d> have it locally fixe
13:46 < dav1d> d
13:46 <+md_5> the /4 makes no sense though
13:46 < dav1d> md_5: /4 because maximum length of a utf character is 4 bytes
13:46 <+md_5> yeah
13:46 <+md_5> but .length() that you write with is the length in chars
13:46 < dav1d> md_5: so if /4 is already bigger than maximum characters, the data is already too long
13:46 <+md_5> not bytes
13:46 < dav1d> md_5: smart
13:47 < dav1d> yeah, as I said, not tested
13:47 < SinZ> should be *4
13:47 < dav1d> SinZ: no
13:48 < dav1d> md_5: http://vp.dav1d.de/Cup?ReadUTF8.java <- SinZ 
13:48 < dav1d> the question is
13:48 < dav1d> if that is good enough
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13:48 < dav1d> the "/4" hack
13:49 < SinZ> could always just send the length in bytes through the short
13:49 < dav1d> SinZ: you mean codepoints?
13:49 < SinZ> nvm, was thinking of something else
13:49 < dav1d> SinZ: Grums concern is that someone could send a 64Ki string to dos the server
13:49 < dav1d> that wouldn't prevent it
13:50 < dav1d> so if we don't want to parse utf-8 on our own, that's the only soloution I see
13:50 < dav1d> and it should be good enough
13:50 < dav1d> maybe a default max length of 300 characters, done
13:51 < dav1d> another advantage, this is UTF-8 and not some strange DataStream UTF-8 which wouldn't work out of the box in most languages
13:52 <+md_5> dav1d I sortof fixed your code
13:52 < dav1d> md_5: mh?
13:52 < dav1d> you have a better idea?
13:52 <+md_5> http://vp.dav1d.de/NyOx?c
13:53 < Dinnerbone> <SinZ> trying to trick vannila launcher into going to my program would take longer than just writing my own
13:53 < Dinnerbone> Uhhh
13:53 < dav1d> http://vp.dav1d.de/NyOx?java
13:53 < dav1d> ^ java highlighting
13:53 < Dinnerbone> 2 minute job if it's your first time seeing the system
13:53 < Dinnerbone> 30 second if not
13:53 < Dinnerbone> We're also creating an installer package system to make it a 1 second job for users
13:53 <+md_5> so
13:53 < dav1d> md_5: no
13:53 <+md_5> you havent done that yet
13:53 <+md_5> and we cant expect it for a while
13:54 < dav1d> md_5: I can send a string length of 10
13:54 <+md_5> and even when it hits it might not fit his needs
13:54 < dav1d> md_5: but still encoded-string length as 300000
13:54 < dav1d> *64Ki
13:54 < dav1d> md_5: that's what Grum wanted to prevent
13:54 <+md_5> is there fixed width utf8?
13:54 < dav1d> md_5: no, but maximum width is 4
13:54 <+md_5> using '4' seems hacky
13:55 < dav1d> md_5: yes, there is no other way (I see) except parsing utf-8 manually, which Grum obviously doesn't want → untestable
13:55 <+md_5> its not untestable ?
13:57 < dav1d> md_5: his words
13:57 <+md_5>         int dataLen = in.readInt();
13:57 <+md_5>         if ( dataLen / 4 > maxLen )
13:57 <+md_5>         {
13:57 <+md_5>             throw new IOException( "String data longer than allowed " + dataLen / 4 + " > " + maxLen );
13:57 <+md_5>         }
13:57 <+md_5> #problem solved?
13:57 <+md_5> its approx
13:57 <+md_5> but good enough for trickle attack prevention
13:57 <+md_5> not that I need that with non blocking io
13:57 < dav1d> md_5: that's what I had
13:58 <+md_5> I made it fancy
13:58 <+md_5> :3
13:58 < dav1d> only your error is better formated :P
13:58 <+md_5> and I used a static charset
13:58 < dav1d> question is, if that's good enough for Grum 
13:58 < dav1d> md_5: as I said "buffer" shouldn't be allocated every read either
13:59 <+md_5> meh
13:59 <+md_5> threadlocal works I guess
13:59 <+md_5> not really an advantage though
13:59 < SinZ> Dinnerbone: I still think having to go through your launcher to get to my launcher is going to be horrible for the end-user
13:59 < dav1d> md_5: wait minecraft is threaded?
14:00 < dav1d> oh right
14:00 < dav1d> nvm
14:00 <+md_5> yeah
14:00 <+md_5> networing
14:00 < dav1d> ignore that
14:00 < dav1d> yeah of course it is, networking
14:01 < dav1d> md_5: lol http://j7a.ru/_data_input_stream_8java_source.html
14:02 < dav1d> md_5: "private" != threadlocal, is it?
14:02 < dav1d> would be strange
14:02 < dav1d> I guess that stream (readUTF..) is not threadsafe then
14:02 < dav1d> line 00598
14:06 <+md_5> nothing in Data*Stream* is thread safe
14:06 < dav1d> lul
14:07 <+md_5> its a stream
14:07 <+md_5> it cant possibly be thread safe
14:07 < dav1d> oh
14:07 < dav1d> -.-
14:07 < dav1d> you're right
14:07 < dav1d> I don't know why I was thinking that is a global/static buffer
14:08 < dav1d> http://vp.dav1d.de/Tlvip?ReadUTF8.java
14:12 < dav1d> Grum: ^ what do you think? yes/no/not good enough?
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14:20 < Grum> i dont get the /4
14:20 < unnicked177> writeUTF8 method in readUTF8 class -> java way of thinking
14:21 < Grum> ok someone ban this retard already
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14:21 < unnicked177> Grum: sorry, but it looks illogical
14:21 < Aaron00> Hey!
14:21 < Grum> mmm i do the / 4
14:21 < Grum> unnicked177: it *OBVIOUSLY* is just a piece of testcode
14:21 <+md_5> sigh
14:21 < Grum> erm i get the /4
14:21 <+md_5> no one wants you here unnicked177 , why do you stick around
14:22 < Grum> unsticked77 already
14:22 < unnicked177> ...
14:23 < unnicked177> how was i supposed to know it was piece of testcode?
14:23 < unnicked177> looks like typical java class
14:23 < dav1d> Grum: alright, maximum length for a unicode/utf-8 character is 4byte
14:24 < Aaron00> I'm trying to send a chunk with dirt to test my server, before I try sending data from the mca files, but it's not working :s I'm a beginner in this though: http://pastebin.com/gGVPEpT1 I send this after the login
14:24 < dav1d> Grum: now if we assume the worst case, that every character/codepoint is 4 byte, and we are still above max-length, it's over already
14:24  * SinZ isn't sure if he should start documenting Yggdrasil on the wiki
14:25 < Grum> dav1d: yeah i said i got it .... :P
14:25 < dav1d> Grum: so worst case, someone can dos the server with is pure-utf32 characters
14:25 < dav1d> Grum: ohh you did :(, didn't see that
14:25 < Grum> anyhow, i am rather curious how java would .... represent utf32 in chars :/
14:25 < dav1d> Grum: UTF-8 I guess
14:25 < dav1d> Grum: eh 16
14:25 <+md_5> I have no clue how strings outside of 65365 work internally
14:26 < dav1d> Grum: utf-16 internally
14:26 < SinZ> how would utf-16 show utf32
14:26 < dav1d> SinZ: mh?
14:26 < Grum> utf16 is jsut the encoding, it ends up being 4byte blocks 
14:27 < dav1d> utf16 is variable length
14:27 < dav1d> Grum: yeah as 2 characters
14:27 < Grum> oh utf32 is fixed?
14:27 < dav1d> 2 chars
14:27 < dav1d> Grum: utf-32 is maximum you can get, 4byte
14:27 < Grum> ugh 2 chars ;D
14:27 < SinZ> ah
14:27 < dav1d> there is no character which doesn't fit into 4byte
14:27 < dav1d> 2**32 are quite a few
14:28 < SinZ> yes, 4 billion or so
14:28 < dav1d> 4 GiB
14:28 < dav1d> I think^^
14:28 < Grum> so dav1d, do you also happen to know howto do proper ligature rendering? ;D
14:29 < dav1d> Grum: haha, I actually have a project I'd get payed for implementing that
14:29 < dav1d> well slightly different job
14:29 < SinZ> Mojang will give you 5 hug coupons per purchase if you implement it for Minecraft
14:29 <+md_5> sigh
14:30 <+md_5> how did we humans
14:30 < dav1d> I'd get 60$/hour for that ;)
14:30 <+md_5> get to the stage where we need more than 65365 characters to represent stuff
14:30 < dav1d> Grum: actually no
14:30 < Grum> dav1d: it seems not fun at all
14:30 < Grum> and lots of manual fucking around
14:30 < dav1d> Grum: I'd use a real font
14:30 < Grum> that doesnt solve anything
14:30 < Grum> for opengl you HAVE to do this anyhow
14:31 < dav1d> Grum: well and libraries that do that for you
14:31 < Grum> because to render anything you have to first blit it to a texture and then render it
14:31 < Grum> dav1d: like what? :D
14:31 < Grum> nothing i could find :P
14:31 < dav1d> Grum: cairo and pango, but meh, not what you're looking for I guess
14:31 < dav1d> Grum: cairo has rudimentary support and pango can use cairo as backend to do it correctly
14:31 < dav1d> problem: pango depends on a shitload of gtk stuff
14:31 < dav1d> iirc
14:32 < Grum> the 'best' thing would be figureing out the alternative codepoints for the things that should change
14:32 < Grum> changing the string
14:32 < Grum> and then just fucking rendering it :P
14:32 < Grum> but the 'alternative ones' is .... complex matter
14:33 < dav1d> I don't understand?
14:33 < Grum> with the ligatures, the actual character it *should* render exists as a unicode char
14:33 < Grum> but some can have 3-4 alternatives
14:33 < Grum>  depending on what is surrounding the character
14:33 < Grum> so if you were to know which one to pick .....
14:33 < Grum> you can just render it plain and simple
14:34 < dav1d> Grum: http://cairographics.org/manual/cairo-text.html#cairo-show-text I think it was that one, but I am really not sure about that
14:34 < Aaron00> Anyone want to give me some tips on my previous post? :)
14:34 < Grum> dav1d: its: http://unicode.org/reports/tr9/#Shaping
14:35 < Grum> well partly
14:35 < Grum> that doesnt handle ligatures perse
14:36 < dav1d> proper unicode support is hard :(
14:36 < ShaRose> ooo, this convo is sort of relevant to me
14:36 < dav1d> people from suckless experienced that, too, the reason I still use urxvt instead of st </sidestory>
14:37 < ShaRose> in the way that I ignored unicode support entirely because it was a bitch
14:37 < Grum> we;re doing it wrong in mc
14:37 < SinZ> We gathered that
14:37 < Grum> but .... i kinda want to replace the font renderer and do it less wrong ;(
14:37 < ShaRose> yeah
14:38 < ShaRose> but doing it in twl is such a bitch
14:38 < Grum> i dont think twl does it properly either
14:38 < ShaRose> it doesn't
14:39 < dav1d> minecraft still uses the font.png?
14:39 < ShaRose> also, giant xml definition for every single god damn character
14:39 < Grum> yes and you *can* do it using that
14:39 < dav1d> yes, but it's not optimal
14:39 < Grum> there is no optimal way
14:40 < dav1d> I think I'd try cairo ass backend, depending on how I implent UI
14:40 < dav1d> s/ass/as/
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14:40 < ShaRose> lol
14:40 < ShaRose> I googled "optimal way to do unicode" first result said "I'm not sure I understand the question, but the answer is pretty easy: Don't do it!"
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14:41 < dav1d> "Note: The cairo_show_text() function call is part of what the cairo designers call the "toy" text API. It is convenient for short demos and simple programs, but it is not expected to be adequate for serious text-using applications. "
14:41 < dav1d> ah yeah
14:41 < dav1d> so it's http://cairographics.org/manual/cairo-text.html#cairo-show-glyphs and you need to convert it to glyphs first
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14:42 < dav1d> or use pango
14:42 < Grum> http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr15/ <-- seems that i need to do that
14:42 < Grum> i need to do a NFC or NFCK translation orso :/
14:43 < dav1d> yeah pango needs gobject
14:45 < dav1d> Grum: freetype?
14:45 < Grum> java.text.Normalizer perhaps =)
14:45 < dav1d> never used it, but seems to be widely used
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14:45 < Grum> mmmm
14:45 < ShaRose> I'm actually looking at freetype and OGLFT now
14:45 < Grum> that might just be enough! O.o
14:46 < Grum> ShaRose: nothing java for that though
14:46 < ShaRose> yeah that's the issue
14:46 < Grum> mm i think textNormalizer might be enough o.O
14:46 < dav1d> Grum: that only lowers the number of glyphs you need in the font.png
14:47 < dav1d> but you will still have a lot of glyphs in there 
14:51 < ShaRose> http://www.badlogicgames.com/wordpress/?p=2300 !!
14:51 < ShaRose> someone wrapped freetype
14:51 < dav1d> probably easy
14:51 < dav1d> you only need to load a dll
14:52 < dav1d> gah stuipid university, I now wanna play with a lua UI and freetype
14:52 <+sadimusi> sorry guys, I was sleeping
14:52 -!- mode/#mcdevs [+o sadimusi] by ChanServ
14:53 -!- unnicked177 was kicked from #mcdevs by sadimusi [unnicked177]
14:53 < dav1d> finally
14:53 -!- mode/#mcdevs [+b unnicked*!*@*] by sadimusi
14:53 -!- mode/#mcdevs [-o sadimusi] by sadimusi
14:53 < dav1d> sadimusi: guten morgen!
14:53 < dav1d> 14:53 and sleeping pfft
14:53 <+sadimusi> :D
14:54 < ShaRose> went to bed 3 am, woke up 10 am
14:54 < dav1d> similiar here
14:54 < dav1d> but I stayed until 11:30 am in bed :P
14:54 <+sadimusi> it was 5am for me and i need a lot of sleep...
14:54 < ShaRose> https://github.com/libgdx/libgdx/commit/2c9030de2ddb983cfaeb5736089453b32c559cc1 lol
14:55 < dav1d> ShaRose: how did your presentation go?
14:55 < ShaRose> presentation what
14:55 <+sadimusi> very well
14:55 < ShaRose> ah, misping
14:55 <+sadimusi> but I still have to write my thesis :/
14:55 <+sadimusi> but burger comes first :)
14:59 < ShaRose> why
14:59 < ShaRose> why isn't there a better alternative than public static final String DEFAULT_CHARS = "lots of shit"
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15:17 < Grum> wtf does that say in english? ;D
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15:27 < dav1d> G+ down? lol?
16:00 < dx> oh hey pbunny2 banned :D
16:00 < dx> sadimusi: thanks <3
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16:36 <+SirCmpwn> have I missed anything interesting
16:38 < dx> not much
16:39 < dx> fixed ping packets to support proper virtual hosting, utf-8 strings instead of ucs-2, packet length headers, switched to bson where nbt was used and WoW style translations for chat instead of json, and some other stuff that doesn't matter either
16:40  * SirCmpwn sighs
16:40 < dx> oh also the next jar release is going to be deobfuscated
16:40 <+sadimusi> dx: isn't the DNS approach enough for virtual hosting?
16:41 <+SirCmpwn> it's a shitty solution, imo
16:41 <+SirCmpwn> even Gr*m doesn't like it, and the fix is simple
16:41 <+sadimusi> why don't you like it? it's perfect
16:41 < dx> i'm fine with SRV records
16:42 <+sadimusi> the other way you still have to proxy everything through one server
16:42 <+SirCmpwn> I don't like it because few other applications use it, so it's not very well known, and a lot of standard libraries (including .NET) don't support it, so it adds an additional dependencies
16:42 < dx> they are awkward, but they are just aliases like CNAME, but better
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16:42 <+SirCmpwn> dependency*
16:43 <+SirCmpwn> but that's pretty low importance, there are other things I want dealt with more
16:43 < dx> sadimusi: the problem with virtual hosting was that the ping packet sent from the client never mentioned what virtual server it was trying to connect to
16:44 < dx> sadimusi: so every server that went through the same proxy would get the same motd, player count, etc.
16:44 <+sadimusi> I know, I wrote one of the first of those proxies
16:44 < dx> sadimusi: anyway that should be fixed in 1.6.1
16:44 <+sadimusi> but SRV record support makes these proxy based solutions completely obsolete
16:45 < dx> except that sometimes you need an actual proxy
16:45 < dx> like bungee
16:45 <+sadimusi> sure, that's a different story
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16:51 < dav1d> Grum: will we have utf-8 for 1.6?
16:51 < dav1d> omg BSON!?
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16:52 < dav1d> dx: ^
16:52 < dav1d> dx: did you troll or are you serious?
16:53 < dx> dav1d: 90% troll
16:53 <+sadimusi> guess :P
16:53 < dav1d> dammit
16:53 < Yoshi2> what, where, bson? o.O
16:53 < dav1d> would have been to good!
16:53 < dav1d> *too
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17:07 < Socolin> Hello
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17:10 < Grum> dav1d: no idea
17:10 < Grum> first solve the rendering issues ;)
17:10 < dav1d> ah.. kk :)
17:11 <+SirCmpwn> dx: 10% of that was serious? Which 10%?
17:11 < dx> SirCmpwn: "fixed ping packets to support proper virtual hosting"
17:11 < Socolin> does anyone know a good bot to test a server performance (like 500 client moving int a defined area) which can be run only one computer, I have try some python bot, but I get 100% cpu with 100 bot :(
17:12 < dx> Socolin: http://www.spigotmc.org/threads/stress-testing-servers.175/
17:12 < dx> although
17:12 < dx> "some python bot" and "100% cpu" might be exactly this one
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17:13 < dx> unless ammar2 unfucked his awful python code
17:14 < Socolin> thank you dx
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17:55 < Socolin> dx: this version of bot work better, but don't send enough packets/sec for simulate  "real" clients
17:57 < dx> Socolin: what kind of packets, movement?
17:57 < Socolin> yes
17:57 < Socolin> I need 20/sec 
17:57 < Socolin> to do some adjustment
17:58 < dx> https://github.com/ammaraskar/pyCraft/blob/bots/networking/NetworkManager.py#L374
17:58 < dx> go nuts.
17:58 < Socolin> I have change this already 
17:58 < Socolin> ^^
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18:28 < dav1d> I should make BraLa's networking into a library and add epoll/kqueue/libev support
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18:30 <+SirCmpwn> dx: I bet they fucked it up
18:30 <+SirCmpwn> dx: details?
18:32 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2049 2 files : Enabled /SetGen command and updated /Gen help.
18:34 < Drainedsoul> no iocp support?
18:34 <+SirCmpwn> iocp?
18:34 < Drainedsoul> Input/Output Completion Ports
18:34 < dav1d> i/o completion port
18:34 < dav1d> that's a windows (and solaris?) thing?
18:35 < Drainedsoul> yeah and one other OS
18:35 < dav1d> I'd probably go for libev
18:35 < Drainedsoul> AIX apparently is the other one
18:35 <+SirCmpwn> what do you want that for
18:35 < Drainedsoul> it's "kqueue/epoll for Windows"
18:36 < dav1d> and it even works on files! (iirc)
18:36 < Drainedsoul> absolutely, it's also a high performance threaded queue, you don't even need I/O to use it
18:36 < Drainedsoul> it's very bizarre
18:36 < dx> SirCmpwn: it's just sending a 'plugin message' packet after 0xFE 0x01 since, surprisingly, servers can handle that just fine
18:37 < dav1d> ever tried to read from stdin asynchronosly on windows?  → make a thread
18:37 <+SirCmpwn> yup, they fucked it up
18:37 < Drainedsoul> omg
18:37 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: yep
18:37 < Drainedsoul> reading from standard streams on Windowns is a massive complaint of mine
18:37 < dx> SirCmpwn: why
18:37 < Drainedsoul> because you can't use ReadConsole/WriteConsole on them if they're redirected to a file
18:37 < dav1d> if you want it cross-platform → use threads
18:38 < dx> SirCmpwn: there was no way to extend 0xFE without breaking backwards compat, but this works
18:38 <+SirCmpwn> dx: there most certainly is a way
18:38 <+SirCmpwn> dx: you stop using 0xFE at all and make another ping packet
18:38 < dx> SirCmpwn: >without breaking backwards compat
18:38 <+SirCmpwn> that doesn't break backwards compatability
18:38 < dx> SirCmpwn: you'd have to send both packets to both kind of servers
18:38 <+SirCmpwn> nope
18:38 < dx> or guess the version somehow
18:38 <+SirCmpwn> old clients can continue using 0xFE, and the server will continue to respond to it
18:39 <+SirCmpwn> new clients use 0xXX, and the server responds with 0xYY
18:39 < dx> and what do old servers respond with?
18:39 <+ammar2> but what if you send the new packet to an old server
18:39 < Drainedsoul> they die and then the new client can use the old ping?
18:39 <+ammar2> it wont respond, so you have to make another connection which sends the old 0xfe
18:39 <+SirCmpwn> if the old server fails to respond, they're shown as outdated in the server list
18:39 <+ammar2> and all the motd/player count info gets gobbled up :<
18:40 < dx> so basically breaking backwards compat
18:40 < dx> intentionally
18:40 <+SirCmpwn> or the client falls back to 0xFE if you really want it to
18:40 <+SirCmpwn> which would have perfect backwards compatability
18:40 < dx> what exactly is the problem with the current solution?
18:40 <+SirCmpwn> because the server has to wait for the plugin message before it can determine how to respond
18:40 < dx> it only fails for servers that didn't have the schrodinger byte, but i don't think you care about those
18:41 <+SirCmpwn> which has the exact same bloody problem the schrodinger's byte introduced in the first place
18:41 <+SirCmpwn> i.e. breaking everyone's protocol code (assuming they designed it with any sense)
18:42 <+SirCmpwn> how will the plugin message be done, I wonder. Will they make it possible to extend in the future, or will they make the same mistake for a third time
18:42 < dx> actually...
18:43 < dx> the previous solution used the schrodinger byte as a "version"
18:43 < dx> since its value doesn't matter
18:43 <+SirCmpwn> what do you mean, as a version
18:44 < dav1d> double Y chromosoms :O oh noes
18:44 < dav1d> poor guy
18:44 < dx> SirCmpwn: have a 73 instead of a 1 in that byte
18:44 < dx> SirCmpwn: if it's not 1, keep reading for more contents
18:45 <+SirCmpwn> that still has the same exact problems I keep bringing up
18:45 < dx> ...why?
18:45 <+SirCmpwn> the very existence of the shrodinger's byte breaks any sensibly designed protocol implementation!
18:46 < dx> well... this change does break backwards compat with pre-schrodinger byte servers
18:46 < dx> they normally parsed the 0x01 as a keepalive
18:46 < dx> with has an int after it
18:47 < dx> grum just decided he didn't care about pre-schrodinger byte servers, and for once, i'm glad he doesn't
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18:49 < dav1d> schrodinger byte?
18:49 < dx> dav1d: the payload of 0xFE, which may or may not be there depending on who sends it
18:50 < dav1d> oh, this is new, I guess
18:50 < dx> nah
18:50 <+pdelvo> no
18:50 < dav1d> :O
18:50 < dx> it's in the wiki as "magic"
18:50 < dx> the schrodinger reference is new for me though
18:50 < dav1d> ah, I see
18:50 < dav1d> don't understand it either
18:51 <+pdelvo> but we can see if it is there or not. so it is not a schrodinger byte
18:51 < dx> it's a silly name
18:51 < dx> but the way to handle that magic is fucked up
18:52 < Drainedsoul> waiting to see if the client sends it?
18:52 < dx> i.e. a socket read timeout
18:52 < dx> ye
18:52 <+sadimusi> It worked out pretty well for me, I just see it as a separate packet
18:52 < Drainedsoul> well, it's only a socket read timeout if you're using blocking sockets
18:52 < Drainedsoul> (who does that)
18:52 < dx> sadimusi: still gotta wait for it
18:52 <+sadimusi> why?
18:52 <+pdelvo> not really a timeout the other side closes the connection
18:53 <+sadimusi> when it was added all I had to do was add an empty 0x01 packet definition
18:54 <+sadimusi> there's no need to wait for it or anything
18:54 < dav1d> what's this discussion all about? Is it used for the legacy-connection stuff?
18:54 < dx> i guess you could do that if you handle ping connections separately
18:55 < dx> 0x01 is usually keepalive
18:55 < Drainedsoul> I don't see how defining 0x01 separately gets around waiting for it
18:55 < dav1d> 0x01 = Login, isn't it?
18:55 < Drainedsoul> you need to know whether it's there or not to respond appropriately
18:55 < dx> Drainedsoul: he doesn't wait, he just sends the same thing regardless of its presence
18:56 < dav1d> pdelvo: btw. did you have a disconnect today?
18:56 < Drainedsoul> but old clients won't understand that?  Why even bother.  Just wait for the 0x01 and time the connection out on inactivity
18:56 < dx> dav1d: oh snap you're right
18:56 < dav1d> 0x00 is KeepAlive
18:56 < dx> why did i think it was keepalive
18:56 <+pdelvo> I dont think so
18:57 <+pdelvo> I think my bouncer is working again (the pdelvo_ in here)
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18:58 < pdelvo_> jeah it is. znc is magically working again
18:58 < dav1d> ^^
19:00 <+SirCmpwn> here's how I would fix 0xFE: https://gist.github.com/SirCmpwn/165de0e96a8ff2087b8f (cc Grum, Dinnerbone)
19:02 < Drainedsoul> everyone loves dictionaries
19:03 <+SirCmpwn> dictionaries won't break when they want to change them later
19:03 < Drainedsoul> nope
19:04 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: use nbt?
19:04 <+SirCmpwn> I like to pretend NBT doesn't exist
19:04 < Drainedsoul> ^
19:04 < dav1d> even more dynamic and sends the type
19:04 <+SirCmpwn> but maybe you're right
19:05 < dav1d> meh, nbt isn't really the worst of the protocol
19:05 <+SirCmpwn> fork the gist, submit a revised version
19:05 < dav1d> na, no time^^
19:05 <+SirCmpwn> asdf
19:05 < dx> i'd agree that nbt would be decent for this, but we will never get grum to add a single bit of extra nbt related code to the protocol, so forget it
19:05 <+SirCmpwn> I'll do it, then
19:05 < dav1d> dx: bson!
19:06 < Drainedsoul> why not use JSON, they seem gung ho on that
19:06 <+SirCmpwn> I also like to pretend that they don't actually send JSON over the wire
19:06 < dav1d> yeah json would also do it...
19:07 <+SirCmpwn> it's just too stupid for me to comprehend
19:07 < dav1d> I don't see why they don't use bson
19:07 < dx> we won't get bson until they get flooded by complaints of sysadmins saying that json uses too much bandwidth, which won't happen since all people notice about bandwidth usage is when it goes over 100%
19:07 < dav1d> from what I've seen it fits perfectly
19:09 <+SirCmpwn> bson would be fine
19:09 < Yoshi2> I've read a bit into bson, it looks like it doesn't produce smaller data than json in a lot of cases
19:09 <+SirCmpwn> I have no complaints about bson
19:09 <+SirCmpwn> I still think it's bloody stupid for chat
19:09 <+SirCmpwn> but I can forgive sending it over a wire
19:09 < Drainedsoul> do you get mad about web servers sending JSON over the wire or is that different?
19:10 < dav1d> ah not for chat
19:10 < dav1d> but as nbt replacement
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19:10 <+SirCmpwn> Drainedsoul: HTTP is pretty terrible, fyi
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19:12 < Drainedsoul> just its statelessness or the complexities of certain things beyond GET
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19:15 <+SirCmpwn> revised to use NBT: https://gist.github.com/SirCmpwn/165de0e96a8ff2087b8f (cc Grum Dinnerbone)
19:15 < dx> "revised so that grum won't even think about rejecting it"
19:16 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: TAG_Compound(''): 2 entries
19:16 < dav1d> 2 entries is wrong?
19:16 <+SirCmpwn> both versions - NBT ( https://gist.github.com/SirCmpwn/165de0e96a8ff2087b8f ) and custom ( https://gist.github.com/SirCmpwn/165de0e96a8ff2087b8f ) are acceptable (cc Grum Dinnerbone)
19:16 <+SirCmpwn> dav1d: ty
19:16 < dx> ...not sure if i got the meaning of that sentence backwards, i'm not good at english
19:17 < dav1d> dx: ?
19:17 <+SirCmpwn> whoops, this is the "custom" format link: https://gist.github.com/SirCmpwn/165de0e96a8ff2087b8f/de29d28d22771be33d953dc7d050d243493db4d7 (cc Grum Dinnerbone)
19:17 < dx> dav1d: "won't even think about rejecting it", is this interpreted as "he will reject" or as "he won't"?
19:18 < dav1d> dx: I think "he won't"
19:18 <+SirCmpwn> anyone have any suggestions about the properties included? is there anything else that would be useful from the client or server?
19:18 < dx> dav1d: welp.
19:19 < dx> SirCmpwn: i don't see why can't we just keep using 0xfe and use the payload byte as flag...
19:20 <+SirCmpwn> because that's a shitty solution that doesn't fix the real problem
19:20 <+SirCmpwn> the existence of the shrodinger's byte is also pretty damn horrible
19:21 <+SirCmpwn> plus, servers will become pretty shitty when they have to support a dozen different packet formats based on that flag
19:21 < Drainedsoul> if you switch to a new packet you don't have to send/parse/deal with that one byte
19:21 < dx> it's not schrodinger byte anymore with this change, since it will be required
19:21 < Drainedsoul> and conditional packet parsing makes packet interpretation too tightly coupled with packet parsing
19:22 < Drainedsoul> a dictionary format allows seamless progression to newer versions, new fields can just be added and ignored by old clients
19:22 < dx> i'm perfectly fine with using a dict-like payload
19:22 <+SirCmpwn> dx: it will always be schrodinger's byte, old servers/clients don't send it
19:23 < Drainedsoul> yeah you're just further overloading the packet.  Now there'll be three different ways to interpret it instead of just two.  There should only be one.
19:23 <+SirCmpwn> there's also really no compelling reason *not* to use a new packet
19:23 < Drainedsoul> We have a field for specifying the structure of the data the follows -- the packet ID
19:23 <+SirCmpwn> but there are reasons, compelling or otherwise, *to* use it
19:24 < dav1d> :D
19:24 < dav1d> http://vp.dav1d.de/o1M?lt.d
19:24 < dav1d> using gl3n (math lib I wrote for opengl stuff) for homework :D
19:25 < Drainedsoul> I hope I get a chance to do that when I go back to school in the fall
19:25 < Drainedsoul> seeing how as I wrote a whole Unicode string and regular expression library :(
19:26 < dav1d> That reminds me that I wanted to add SIMD support :/
19:27 <+SirCmpwn> I have so many bloody logs
19:28 <+SirCmpwn> no folder should have 13,622 files
19:28 < Drainedsoul> at my old job we had a mapping server with a folder with literally millions of files in it
19:28 < Drainedsoul> ...that was fun
19:28 <+AndrewPH> enter: hb.php cache folder
19:29 <+AndrewPH> back when it was heavily used (because i had it open for anybody to use), literally hundreds of thousands of files
19:29 <+AndrewPH> the first automated deletion took 4 hours to complete.
19:29 <+AndrewPH> or, well, probably closer to 1
19:29 <+AndrewPH> i just checked back after 4 hours
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19:34 <+SirCmpwn> god fucking dammit, I should not have been gone when this shit was decided upon
19:34 <+SirCmpwn> md_5: you twat
19:36 <+SirCmpwn> two hours of arguing with Gr*m and someone finally gets him to listen, then md_5 proceeds to advise him to fix it in a stupid way
19:37 < Eloston> The server list ping?
19:37 <+SirCmpwn> yes
19:37 <+SirCmpwn> hey, D!nnerbone was here
19:38 < dav1d> D <3
19:38 < dav1d> massive loop unrolling at compile-time
19:44 <+SirCmpwn> wait, are they switching to utf32?
19:44 <+SirCmpwn> isn't utf-8 good enough for anyone
19:45 < Yoshi2> maybe because utf-8 does not have a fixed size and they don't want to deal with that
19:45 <+SirCmpwn> it's easy to deal with
19:46 <+SirCmpwn> don't write the string length in the packet, write the length of the final string in bytes
19:46 <+SirCmpwn> if they're going to switch character sets at all, it should be utf8
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19:47 < Yoshi2> hm, yeah, that would work
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19:48 < Yoshi2> it would be very mysterious if they really decide to use utf32 instead of utf8
19:51 < Grum> SirCmpwn: advice to fix what in a stupid way?
19:51 < Eloston> server list ping
19:51 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: server list ping
19:51 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: have you seen either of the alternative suggestions I prepared?
19:52 < Grum> nope but i'm not sure how any of them would be backwards compatible
19:52 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: read: https://gist.github.com/SirCmpwn/165de0e96a8ff2087b8f/de29d28d22771be33d953dc7d050d243493db4d7
19:52 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: the other suggestion is similar, but uses NBT instead
19:53 < Grum> yeah not implementing a new packet
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19:53 < Grum> also not backwards compat unless you implement dual-querying
19:53 < Grum> which lesucks
19:53 <+SirCmpwn> this is backwards compatible all the way to beta 1.8
19:53 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: the change that uses a plugin message packet is stupid
19:53 < Grum> oh the old server will not at all say: unknown packet, closing connection right?
19:54 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: it requires servers to wait a bit for a plugin message to potentially show up, which increases the reported ping time and breaks lots of well-designed networking code
19:54 <+SirCmpwn> that's exactly what the old server will say, Grum
19:54 < Grum> yeah and spam the logs
19:54 < Grum> also far far FAR more work than what we did now
19:55 <+SirCmpwn> weren't you the one saying that no one should be using old versions anyway
19:55 <+SirCmpwn> a small number of people will be affected by a little extra in the logs
19:55 < Grum> more than are affected now
19:55 < Grum> that makes this solution better
19:55 < Grum> still leaves plenty of room to do this though
19:56 <+SirCmpwn> any response to this? <SirCmpwn> Grum: it requires servers to wait a bit for a plugin message to potentially show up, which increases the reported ping time and breaks lots of well-designed networking code
19:56 < Grum> it requires that of which servers?
19:56 <+SirCmpwn> "that"
19:57 <+SirCmpwn> waiting a bit for the plugin message?
19:57 < Grum> i think you completely misunderstand the issue
19:57 < Grum> the server is going to respond but it keeps reading on the socket
19:57 < Grum> it finds an unknown packet and instantly closes BEFORE it can send data back
19:58 < Grum> the 'real' solution is making it *not* read beyond the packet
19:58 < Grum> but we cannot adjust old code obviously
19:58 < Grum> so wrapping it into something that makes it 'just read it' is a nice trick to not make it fail
19:58 <+SirCmpwn> describe the new ping mechanism, I may not fully understand exactly what's being done here
19:59 < Grum> the new ping system sends a 0xFE with a '0x01' after it
19:59 < Grum> the 'ancient code' just responds on the 0xFF
19:59 < Grum> s/on/with/
20:00 < Grum> the 'newercode' responds with the new response code (containing the version)
20:00 < Grum> but it also reads beyond the first packet
20:00 < Grum> as we now need to send the protocol version, host, port
20:00 <+SirCmpwn> these fields are included in 0xFE now?
20:00 <+SirCmpwn> will be, that is
20:00 < Grum> if we just have it tail the 0x01 it whines about invalid packet, closes the connection and you never get response
20:01 < Grum> yes
20:01 <+SirCmpwn> in what format?
20:01 <+SirCmpwn> just like normal old packet fields?
20:03 < dav1d> Grum: why not use nbt for the additional data?
20:03 < Grum> so now we send: 0xFE 0x01 followed by 0xFA 0x00 0x00 ShortLength and then the extra data
20:03 < Grum> dav1d: why would we ever use nbt for version, host, port? O.o
20:03 <+SirCmpwn> "the extra data"
20:03 < Eloston> SirCmpwn: So if I understand correctly from your proposal, you will try to do a server list ping with a 0xF0, and if the server doesn't like you, you will be disconnected and then the client will try to do a 0xFE like normal?
20:03 <+sadimusi> what happens when an old client pings a new server?
20:03 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: because you can extend upon it later
20:04 < Grum> who cares for that
20:04 < Grum> we'll overhaul it next time
20:04 <+SirCmpwn> Eloston: correct
20:04 < dav1d> Grum: you can dynamically extend the information sent and it will always be backwards compatible
20:04 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: god dammit
20:04 <+SirCmpwn> overhaul it this time
20:04 < Grum> bye.\
20:04 < Eloston> SirCmpwn: I like your proposal
20:04 <+SirCmpwn> a half-assed solution is worse for everyone in the long run
20:05 < Grum> you have absolutely no idea what is 'worse' in the long run
20:05 < Grum> you do not even know what is planned for the long run
20:05 < Grum> so how do you even *try* to claim you know *anything*
20:05 <+SirCmpwn> because I have to deal with your shitty protocol all the bloody time and I know it better than most
20:06 < Grum> indeed, its shitty, i do not want to fuck around in that code at all
20:06 <+SirCmpwn> I can't claim to know your long term plans, but I can apply logic to the situation and get a pretty good idea of how this will develop in the future
20:06 < Grum> you got your feature, less whining
20:06 < Grum> i do not really care for the current protocol state
20:06 < Grum> its just broken
20:06 < Drainedsoul> Re: The above, at least UTF-32 has some redeeming qualities, unlike UTF-16/UCS-2
20:06 <+SirCmpwn> you guys have said you'll overhaul it for the past 11 months or so
20:06 < Grum> yeah and its on the bottom of the list because everything else has to be handled first
20:07 < Grum> because the protocol impacts *everything*
20:07 <+SirCmpwn> and as such, you should consider changing parts of the shitty protocol as temporary fixes, at the very least
20:07 <+SirCmpwn> seeing as it's been 11 months and it's going to be a lot more
20:07 < Grum> why? its a ton of work without any benefits because we do not evne attempt to keep it
20:08 <+SirCmpwn> how long do you think minecraft will be alive for?
20:08 < ShaRose> curious, why does backwards compat matter
20:08 <+SirCmpwn> by the time you finish, half the community may well be gone
20:08 < ShaRose> does mojang even support old versions?
20:08 < Grum> SirCmpwn: then we'll do it for the grateful half still around
20:08 < Grum> feel free to leave
20:08 <+SirCmpwn> is it really that difficult to implement these things? md_5 has talked about dozens of "10 line patches"
20:09 < Grum> yeah and how wrong was he
20:09 <+SirCmpwn> he did it himself, changed your actual code
20:09 < Grum> about .... 500% wrong on files and ~600% wrong on affected lines
20:09 < Grum> yeah and it was broken
20:09 <+ammar2> not this patch, how about packet length headers.
20:10 <+ammar2> he has that as a 10 or so line change
20:10 < Grum> never.
20:11 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: why don't you guys stop doing updates for a while and just rewrite everything, then, if the codebase is really this horrible
20:11 <+SirCmpwn> youtubers can survive for a while without pandering
20:12 < Grum> because it will take a year+ to do that?
20:12 <+SirCmpwn> so take a year+
20:12 < Grum> which will do what good?
20:12 < dav1d> that would be wrong
20:12 < Grum> a good big bang implementation?
20:12 < Grum> dont think i didnt suggest that a year ago
20:12 < Grum> it wont work
20:12 < dav1d> progressivly improve the protocol while you move on
20:12 < Grum> we'll do the things in one go
20:13 <+SirCmpwn> I can't think of a single project here that would have any trouble fixing any of the things we've asked you to fix
20:13 < Grum> which means it'll have to wait a bit
20:13 <+SirCmpwn> but you've said all of them are massive changes
20:13 <+SirCmpwn> your codebase must be *really, really* bad
20:13 < Grum> SirCmpwn: i couldn't give a fuck about what you think about what we do
20:13 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: notch.
20:13 < dav1d> :D
20:13 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: yeah, we can tell
20:13 < Grum> i'm getting seriously tired from the whining
20:13 < dav1d> pssht
20:13 < dav1d> we get utf-8!
20:13 < Grum> maybe
20:13 <+SirCmpwn> I thought we were getting utf32
20:13 < dav1d> :)
20:14 < dav1d> I already took that as a yes
20:14 < Grum> why the fuck would we ever do utf32? O.o
20:14 <+SirCmpwn> with json inside, too
20:14 < Grum> SirCmpwn: sigh
20:14 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: was reading logs earlier that talked about doing utf32
20:14 < dav1d> SirCmpwn: no you're wrong
20:14 <+SirCmpwn> but hey, if you're not doing that, great
20:14 < dav1d> that was never discussed
20:14 < Grum> if you want me to become as Dinnerbone and jsut ignoring this whole channel, feel free to keep up this attitude
20:14 < dav1d> Grum: :(
20:14 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: to be honest, it almost feels like you do anyway
20:14 < Grum> i'm perfectly happy just /detaching the fuck out of this channel
20:14 <+SirCmpwn> ignoring us with style, I suppose
20:14 < Drainedsoul> I was about to say
20:14 < Drainedsoul> what would the difference between that and what you're doing now be?
20:15 < Grum> but sure, SirCmpwn, if you know it all that much better
20:15 < Grum> can you move to sweden?
20:15 <+SirCmpwn> I don't know anything about your codebase, yes
20:15 <+SirCmpwn> but I know a hell of a lot about your protocol and other technical details
20:15 <+SirCmpwn> don't pretend we don't
20:16 < Drainedsoul> what's switching to UTF-8?  I missed that
20:16 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: nothing, that is just my hope
20:16 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: I wouldn't want to in any case, Mojang isn't as lucrative as my current job
20:16 < Grum> ok then i'd suggest you just tone down.
20:16 < Drainedsoul> or what?
20:16  * SirCmpwn sighs
20:17 <+SirCmpwn> this is why we dislike mojang here, you have a terribly designed game and listen to none of our feedback on it. Then you get pissy when we call you out on it.
20:17 < Grum> SirCmpwn: stop pretending you 'know it all' while you clearly do not.
20:17 < Grum> dude, i do nothing else than listening to feedback and whining from users/people who claim to know it better
20:17 < Grum> meanwhile i'm also one of the  few actually working on improving it
20:17 <+SirCmpwn> well, listen and then discard
20:18 < Drainedsoul> listening to feedback and whining from users is like
20:18 < Drainedsoul> being a Software Engineer
20:18 < Grum> because you ahve fucking retarded arguments >.>
20:18 < Grum> 'we need it because we need it' .....
20:18 < Grum> gooderested argument ever
20:18 <+SirCmpwn> keep in mind, this channel doesn't really use the vanilla software, vanilla improvements that don't affect its external appearance are not important to us
20:18 <+SirCmpwn> our interests (and thus our complaints) lie elsewhere
20:18 <+ammar2> 'we want it because it makes our lives easier'
20:18 <+ammar2> 'but what will vanilla do with it'
20:18 <+SirCmpwn> we give you plenty of examples of use cases for everything we ask for
20:19 < Grum> yeah, and now you have to get it through your thick skull that doing changes 'just because you want them' is NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN
20:19 <+SirCmpwn> and you respond with the same shit every time, asking for a vanilla usecase
20:19 < Grum> yes, and you cant give me any
20:19 < Grum> so fuck your bad ideas
20:19 < Grum> give me incentive to do it and i'll consider it
20:19 <+SirCmpwn> it's not all about vanilla
20:19 < Grum> it actually is
20:19 < dav1d> well actually it is
20:19 < Drainedsoul> I don't see how good/proper design is a "bad idea"
20:19 < Eloston> Then why not just change vanilla if there are no vanilla use cases
20:19 < dav1d> they make money out of it...
20:19 <+SirCmpwn> tell me, Grum, what percentage of severs use the vanilla server
20:20 < Grum> tell me what percentace of servers use bukkit servers
20:20 < dav1d> bukkit is basically vanilla
20:20 <+SirCmpwn> how many users go through bungeecord, md_5? half a million?
20:20 < Grum> i know its far more than anything else out there
20:20 < Grum> yeah, how many users KNOW they go through bungeecord?
20:20 < Grum> 'omg i can proxy the world -- so impressivemuch'
20:20 <+SirCmpwn> they don't need to, why is that important
20:20 < Grum> >.>
20:20 < Grum> oh ... and offline mode crap
20:20 < Drainedsoul> that's like asking how many users know they're getting served content by nginx instead of apache
20:20 < Grum> superbly done
20:20 <+SirCmpwn> ^
20:21 <+SirCmpwn> what offline mode crap
20:21 <+SirCmpwn> we need offline mode behind our proxies to get everything working well
20:21 < Grum> which is what i am saying
20:21 <+ammar2> s/well/at all/
20:21 < Grum> also nto supported
20:21 < Grum> as long as you keep doing that, no more 'stuff you want'.
20:21 < Grum> enjoy.
20:21 <+SirCmpwn> we do authentication ourselves
20:21 <+SirCmpwn> it's not like we actually run in online mode from an external perspective
20:21 <+SirCmpwn> offline mode*
20:22 <+SirCmpwn> it's because we have no choice, not because we want users logging in with offline mode
20:22 <+SirCmpwn> there is literally no other way to do it
20:22 < Grum> maybe you are doing it wrong.
20:22 < Eloston> You know Grum, if you keep this up, eventually someone will create an open-source equivalent of Minecraft
20:22 < Grum> Eloston: and be number 20?
20:22 <+SirCmpwn> suggest an alternative means, Grum
20:22 < Grum> go ahead O.o
20:22 < Yoshi2> Eloston: people are already doing that
20:23 < Grum> SirCmpwn: not doing it? saves me whining in here too! benefits allaboard
20:23 < Yoshi2> open source, and closed source
20:23 <+SirCmpwn> we need proxies because your server is so shit, Grum
20:23 <+SirCmpwn> remember, no matter what you say, bungeecord supports 1.5k servers and half a million users
20:23 < Grum> then why are you surprised we don't want to do small incremental breaking changes?
20:23 < Grum> are you that stupid? O.o
20:23 <+SirCmpwn> you do them anyway, Grum
20:23 <+SirCmpwn> yeesh
20:24 < Grum> yes .. because we *have* to
20:24 <+SirCmpwn> and if you were more open with us, it'd be a lot easier to do our jobs
20:24 < Grum> but that implies you think we care for 'your jobs' ..
20:24 < Grum> i guess we do, as much as you care for mojang.
20:24 < dav1d> Eloston: minetest is probably the best known
20:24 <+SirCmpwn> our "jobs" support a half a million fucking users, Grum
20:24 < dav1d> and Mojang supports the other 11million
20:24 < Grum> only half a million, must be shit then.
20:24 < Grum> even bukkit supported far mroe
20:25 < Grum> SirCmpwn: its really simple, you get what you sow
20:25 <+ammar2> well yes, a proxying solution and a server replacement aren't exactly in the same league
20:25 <+SirCmpwn> shall we just inform these half million users about how much you care for them, then?
20:25 < Grum> you are a giant arrogant pain in the ass that has no respect whatsoever towards the people that might actually be able to help you out
20:25 < Grum> meanwhile you go around whining that we dont and demand that we do
20:25 < Grum> are you *stupid*? 
20:26 <+SirCmpwn> you're suprised that I'm upset that you don't give a shit about us?
20:26 < Grum> that is YOUR conclusion
20:26 <+SirCmpwn> that's your bloody conclusion
20:26 <+SirCmpwn> let me read up and find that quote
20:26 < Grum> meanhwile i wasted a lot of time actually implementing some of your requests
20:26 < Grum> but nooooo i should have wasted more time and break it harder and introduce yet another packet and spam peoples logs
20:26 < Grum> awesome idea
20:27 <+SirCmpwn> nothing is wrong with my suggested implementation, save for the psuedoproblem of spamming people's logs
20:27 < Grum> i just point out that that is wrong
20:27 <+SirCmpwn> do most server owners even read their logs?
20:27 < Grum> if there is a solution that doesn't do that it's clearly beneficial.
20:28 < dexter0> What about introducing the packet but not using it for a few versions?  By the time you flipped the switch, the number of ppl affected would be low.
20:28 < Grum> also far easier to implement.
20:28 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: and your solution introduces the other problems we already discussed
20:28 <+SirCmpwn> it's not like it's all benefits
20:28 < Grum> it has no problems?
20:28 < Grum> you say the roundtrip time changes, it doesnt
20:28 <+SirCmpwn> if I tell you them again, will you remember this time?
20:28 < Grum> ........
20:29 <+SirCmpwn> I think this'll be the third time
20:29 < Grum> i think i understand why dinnerbone is ignoring this channel.
20:29 < Grum> and why you are banned from various others
20:30 <+SirCmpwn> is it really that hard, adding new packets
20:30 <+SirCmpwn> you added two from 1.5->1.6
20:30 < Grum> is it more work than what i just did? yes
20:30 <+SirCmpwn> I don't understand why you're so against doing changes like this
20:30 <+SirCmpwn> what is it, an hour at worst?
20:30 < Grum> will it create spam in logs where that shouldn't be needed? yes
20:31 <+sadimusi> SirCmpwn: that's enough now. just be quite for a few minutes
20:31 < Grum> because i can spend that hour working on all the shit you claim we do not do
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20:32 < jan64> maybe, a weird question
20:32 < dav1d> A topic change, yes please!
20:32 < dav1d> Hello jan64 
20:32 < jan64> but, is there a way to disable client server communiaction if it's happening without encryption?
20:32 < Grum> seriously; you might get really popular with your buttbuddies; but screaming shit like: <+SirCmpwn> I argued with Gr.m and D.nnerbone at length about how stupid the change is
20:32 < Grum> is just beyond retarded
20:33 < dav1d> jan64: it should always happen encrypted
20:33 <+SirCmpwn> jan64: I'm not sure I understand your question
20:33 < dav1d> jan64: assuming you're in online mode
20:33 <+SirCmpwn> jan64: are you a proxy?
20:33 < jan64> i'm talking about bots that connect without encryption & authentication
20:33 < jan64> nope
20:33 < jan64> as much as i can tell
20:34 <+SirCmpwn> it sounds like something specific to your implementation
20:34 <+SirCmpwn> you need to somehow shut off your protocol parsing?
20:34 < jan64> no
20:34 <+SirCmpwn> what do you mean by "disable client server communication"
20:34 < dav1d> jan64: are you using the official server?
20:34 < jan64> yes
20:34 < jan64> sec
20:34 < jan64> there is this bit in wiki
20:34 < dav1d> jan64: is it in online mode?
20:34 < jan64> Paraphrase (with no authentication and no encryption): send a 0x02, get a 0xFD, send a 0xCD, get a 0x01, get a 0x06. Then you'll eventually get a 0x0D, and that's when the game really begins. 
20:34 < jan64> nope
20:35 < dav1d> jan64: well then the server doesn't force the encryption
20:35 < jan64> Is there a way to disable that? like, i have offline server, and normal clients shouldn't have problems with encryption, while bots do have some
20:35 < Grum> nope
20:35 < jan64> I want to force encryption, but no authentication
20:35 < dav1d> jan64: there is no way to distinguish between bot and client in offline mode
20:35 < Grum> and wont ever have unless you start messing around yourself
20:35 <+SirCmpwn> jan64: you need a custom server for that
20:35 < dav1d> ^
20:35 < jan64> ugh
20:35 <+SirCmpwn> jan64: or a modded one, I suppose
20:35 <+SirCmpwn> but it is possible
20:36 < jan64> hmmm, thanks
20:36 <+SirCmpwn> however, we do not support piracy here, and it sounds like you're shooting for that
20:36 <+SirCmpwn> why do you need this?
20:36 < jan64> out of curiosity
20:36 < jan64> like, why would You even need not to support encryption
20:36 < dav1d> awesome: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ycr4N1jb_g D repl :)
20:37 < jan64> if all of Your clients have it implemented
20:37 <+SirCmpwn> others may help you, but I won't unless I have a tangible and legitimate use case
20:37 < Grum> SirCmpwn: its so much fun to see you shoot an issue down the same way as i do.
20:37 < jan64> eh, You are just covering Your laziness/lack of knowledge with official responses
20:37 < Grum> 'has no usecase, if oyu have one go ask again'
20:37 < jan64> anyways
20:37 < jan64> Cya
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20:37 <+SirCmpwn> Grum: I only do that when I suspect piracy is involved
20:38 < Grum> how is a server in offlinemode piracy?
20:38 <+SirCmpwn> it might not be
20:38 <+SirCmpwn> but I'd like to hear more before I offer assistance
20:39 <+SirCmpwn> <jan64> eh, You are just covering Your laziness/lack of knowledge with official responses
20:39 <+SirCmpwn> hah
20:41 < barneygale> jesus christ SirCmpwn
20:41 <+SirCmpwn> barneygale: hmm?
20:41 < barneygale> sorry I was reading scrollback
20:42 < barneygale> about 20% into that argument you should have said "this obviously isn't going to happen" and quit. wasn't your ban reason last time for harassing mojang devs?
20:42 <+SirCmpwn> sadimusi asked me to keep it down for a while, speak with me privately if you'd like to
20:42 <+SirCmpwn> and no, it wasn't
20:43 < Grum> lol he got banned before? in here?
20:43 < Grum> awesome, time to request another.
20:43 < dav1d> the reason: pbunny, lol
20:43  * dav1d loves that topic
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21:04 < Grum> time to permanently just idle in this channel. bye.
21:05 < dexter0> :(
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21:06 < dav1d> too bad
21:06 < dexter0> Grum: it's sad to hear the rendering engine rewrite is not going as well as hoped.
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22:23 < TkTech> Every so often reading the backlog makes me very depressed. This is one of those times.
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22:57 < AlphaBlend> dexter0: Not something they can really just do
22:57 < dexter0> Of course, that's why they brought in contractors.
22:58 < AlphaBlend> contractors? like paul?
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22:59 < dexter0> Who is paul?
22:59 < AlphaBlend> paul spooner, IIRC, the guy that made the trees or something
22:59 < AlphaBlend> says on the wiki
23:00 < dexter0> no idea if he was/is one of them.
23:00 < AlphaBlend> there's a folder in the .jar called paulscode
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23:08 < Yoshi2> paulscode is something else, I think it contains the sound library used by minecraft
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23:17 < Yoshi2> yep, my memory served me right: http://www.paulscode.com/forum/index.php?topic=34.0
23:17 < Yoshi2> that Paul is called Paul Lamb, no idea about Paul Spooner though
23:24 < Yoshi2> ah, Paul Spooner wrote the forester tool which created naturalistic trees in the older minecraft versions, and he also created the fancy trees with branches that minecraft has been using for a while now
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--- Day changed jeu. juin 27 2013
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00:54 < AlphaBlend> gr*m, what's with the ID gap in the block IDs for 1.6?
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00:55 <+sadimusi> there is an ID gap?
00:55 <+sadimusi> ah, you mean 160 - 169?
01:00 < AlphaBlend> hmmm
01:00 < AlphaBlend> let me see
01:01 < AlphaBlend> yep
01:01 < AlphaBlend> that gap
01:01 < AlphaBlend> i almost feel as if that means something is going to happen soon with IDs....
01:01 < AlphaBlend> xD
01:01 <+sadimusi> it looks more like each colored block had it's own id to me
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01:02 < timeshifter> what's the bukkitdevs irc server again?
01:02 <+sadimusi> esper I guess
01:02 < timeshifter> thought so
01:03 < AlphaBlend> wait what?
01:03 < AlphaBlend> you mean stained glass?
01:03 < AlphaBlend> err
01:03 < AlphaBlend> stained clay*
01:03 < AlphaBlend> well IDs are going to be deprecated, so that wouldn't be a reality at all
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01:06 <+sadimusi> probably not, that would be a terrible idea and the hole isn't big enough
01:08 <+sadimusi> burger is slowly starting to work again :) http://cl.ly/PuCp
01:13 < AlphaBlend> yeah
01:13 < AlphaBlend> but there is the 4096 block ID support, but it's only 256 blocks right now
01:13 < AlphaBlend> i wonder what's going to come of that, or if it's just going to get dropped like a hot brick
01:14 < dexter0> IDs were not going to be deprecated, meta data was
01:14 < AlphaBlend> That's yours?
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02:28 < InfinitePulsing> Can anyone help me by uploading the 1.6 jar? I don't have a premium minecraft account, and it would help.
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02:43 < InfinitePulsing> Anyone get my message.. think I lagged out
02:48 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2050 6 files : Split off EmptyMapGen into its own class, to simplify /setgen syntax
02:50 < InfinitePulsing> Nevermind, found the url.
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03:29 < InfinitePulsing> >.> Infinite silence..
03:31 < dexter0> well, the most vocal member of the channel was just banned, so…yeah.
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03:33 < Drainedsoul> who was banned?
03:33 < dexter0> guess
03:34 < Drainedsoul> just scrolled up and found it, why
03:35 < dexter0> for not knowing when to walk away from an argument I wager.
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03:36 < Drainedsoul> I guess licking the boots of Mojang devs is the appropriate/endorsed course of action
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03:49 < InfinitePulsing> I am hoping it is the person I'm thinking of.
03:49 < InfinitePulsing> Is it Mr. Oh-holier-than-thou
03:50 < InfinitePulsing> So it IS him.
03:50 < InfinitePulsing> I'm happy .
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04:08 < InfinitePulsing> Drained.
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04:10 < InfinitePulsing> This internet..
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04:10 < InfinitePulsing> Oh so it wasn't lag.
04:10 < InfinitePulsing> My scrollbar was just up a little.
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04:52 < TkTech> Drainedsoul: No, it isn't, and there have been plenty of debates over the last three years.
04:52 < TkTech> Drainedsoul: An all-out Who-Can-Bitch-The-Most festival with ANYONE is not appropriate for ANY irc channel.
04:53 < TkTech> sadimusi: Fantastic! Are you going to add the IRC notifications back? :) (subtle nudge)
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11:18 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2051 7 files : Simplified MapGenerator implementations a bit by adding reasonable defaults and simplifying preset handling.
11:29 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2052 2 files : Updated branch README
13:13 <+AndrewPH> TkTech: sigh, got the feeling he would act up again :| he seems to be quite good at not being able to accept answers.
13:16 < SinZ> ^
13:18 < jast> welcome to #mcdevs, the channel about #mcdevs
13:19 < dx> banned... again?
13:19 < dx> god dammit this guy
13:54 < Cube> Hi guys :)
13:55 < dx> ha ha someone called Cube in a channel about development related to a game made of cubes
13:56 < Cube> dx you got that :P
13:56 < dx> best joke ever.
13:56 < Cube> I know right
13:57 < Cube> So?I've never dev'd for mine craft before
13:57 < Cube> whats the best way to go about it
13:57 < Cube> Any open source server packs?
13:57 < dx> depends on what you consider 'dev for minecraft'
13:57 < dx> server packs?
13:57 < Cube> C++ server? I'm assuming it's all Java though
13:58 < dx> heh you seem a bit lost
13:58 < dx> yeah, the official server and client are java
13:58 < jast> there are many unofficial server implementations in all kinds of languages
13:58 < jast> none of them are as complete as the official server, though
13:58 < Cube> Which works best?
13:59 < jast> (though, of course, the more actively developed ones keep moving forward)
13:59 < dx> a lot of people do modifications of the official implementations, you'll have to look elsewhere for those though. the main projects for that are bukkit and MCP/forge
13:59 < jast> and those are all java, yay!
13:59 < dx> this channel is mostly about reimplementing clients and servers in other languages (or not), or messing with the protocols, or other stuff like that. 
14:00 < Cube> I'm just looking to mess with some code for a server?make a few commands etc
14:01 < SinZ> Craft.Net would be a good place, but its in C#
14:01 < Cube> C# is fine
14:01 < jast> for reference: http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Custom_servers
14:02 < dx> wait that's not our wiki
14:02 < Cube> SinZ craft.net doesn't exist?
14:02 < dx> but that page seems more complete
14:02 < SinZ> it doesn't have some of the ones ours dows
14:02 < SinZ> does*
14:02 < dx> Cube: lol, it's not a website
14:02 < SinZ> http://www.wiki.vg/Server_List
14:03 < SinZ> right, Craft.Net is a library
14:03 < SinZ> http://www.wiki.vg/Library_List
14:03 < Cube> haha thanks
14:03 < Cube> Not fully awake at the minute
14:04 < Cube> oh wow: http://i.imgur.com/hQ3YtYDh.jpg
14:04 < Cube> that looks creative
14:05 < SinZ> if you compare it to some builds that used to be done in classic, it doesn't quite compete
14:05 < dx> what's that game? i never heard about it
14:05 < dx> (just kidding, but the way i play minecraft is extremely far from that :D)
14:05 < SinZ> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6378186/projectpar1.png
14:05 < SinZ> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6378186/projectpar2.png
14:06 < dx> neat
14:06 < SinZ> http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/134443-project-parliament-the-hungarian-parliament/
14:06 < Cube> wow
14:07 < SinZ> Saiko is a god of building, unfortunally he quit MC when everyone shited to mid-late alpha / early beta
14:07 < SinZ> shifted*
14:07 < dx> yeah, there was a 'gap' in which there was no proper creative mode, and most of alpha didn't even have colored wool
14:08 < dx> that must have sucked for the people who did this kind of stuff in classic
14:08 < SinZ> yup =S
14:09 < dx> iirc beta 1.2 had colored wool, and 1.8 had creative. that's an awful lot of time
14:09 < Cube> I can imagine some servers on mc have massive cities...
14:10 < SinZ> there is a server building a to-scale WoW map
14:10 < SinZ> its currently 30gb or something
14:10 < SinZ> and another making a to-scale China map
14:10 < dx> http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/997352-crafting-azeroth/
14:11 < Cube> to-scale China :|
14:11 < dx> i don't care much about WoW but i love this project so much, because it's mostly made through scripting
14:12 < SinZ> Cube: I think its only Beijing
14:13 < Cube> That's crazt
14:13 < SinZ> http://www.planetminecraft.com/project/project-1845/
14:13 < Cube> crazy*
14:14 < Cube> To be played locally, the map requires 24 gigabytes of hard-drive space.
14:22 < Aaron00> Hi. Sorry to bother again, but I'm having another problem :p Players are falling through blocks (making custom server)
14:26 < Aaron00> Also, I implemented PlayerAbility 0xCA, but players keep falling, but the flying bool changes correctly :s
14:26 < Aaron00> https://github.com/maser00/MineSharp/tree/master/MineSharp
14:55 < dav1d> lol
14:55 < dav1d> pdelvo: you highlight me when you join^^
15:00 < dx> lol
15:00 < dx> why do you have highlights on hostmasks
15:01 < dav1d> dx: it's the watch module from znc
15:02 < dav1d> I wonder if pdelvo does that or if the znc is freaking out
15:02 < dx> so check the error logs of znc?
15:02 < dav1d> na znc is fine
15:02 < dav1d> must be him
15:03 < dx> not sure how to intentionally cause an 'operation timed out'
15:04 < dx> some time ago i was really bored and played with iptables rules trying to get different irc quit messages, all i managed to get was 'client closed connection' and 'ping timeout'
15:10 < dav1d> mh
20:58 <+AndrewPH> dx: that WoW map recreation is really awesome
20:58 <+AndrewPH> (I followed it back when the guy was strating out making his generation tools)
21:41 < InfinitePulsing> This lag.
21:43 < InfinitePulsing> Question, when you guys try figuring out new protocol stuff, or for example, the recent change in crafting recipes, do you guys manually deobfuscate code as needed, or automatically?  
21:48 < Yoshi2> InfinitePulsing: there is Burger which can automatically retrieve and show information about new packets and other stuff, but usually it's manual work
21:49 < InfinitePulsing> Alrighty, thanks.
22:08 < TkTech> InfinitePulsing: I'm a lazy arse so it's fallen on sadimusi to keep burger maintained, but when it's working it's the easiest tool to quickly view new changes in the JARs.
22:09 < InfinitePulsing> I see, :P
22:36 < TRocket__> is burger mostly working atm?
22:36 <+sadimusi> yes
22:36 <+sadimusi> I'm just having some troubles with fastcgi
22:37 < TRocket__> what's fastcgi used for?
22:37 <+sadimusi> deploying burger
22:39 < TRocket__> oh, ok
22:49 <+sadimusi> my hoster is officially the best, I asked him to enable my error logs and got a reply in <2min https://twitter.com/ubernauten/status/350354410360143872
22:52 < iBotPeaches> :)
22:52 < iBotPeaches> thanks for burger, almost got ss up and running, lots of changes to do in msg
23:02 < TRocket> sadimusi they're probably actual progammers or technical people(:D), not just a random n00b who realises it's a good way to make money
23:02 < TRocket> sadimusi: my client took out the ':'
23:03 <+sadimusi> the support is pretty awesome, they helped me out a few times in the past and it was always incredibly fast
23:03 <+sadimusi> remind you, it's 11pm here
23:04 <+sadimusi> m( it was of course my stupid fault
23:04  * sadimusi installs flup
--- Day changed ven. juin 28 2013
00:44 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2053 3 files : Tweaking the way "Default" preset is shown in AddWorldPopup, and improving its error handling.
03:33 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2054 6 files : ReSharper-aided cleanup pass on MapGeneration code. Notably, fixed equality overrides in RealisticMapGenTheme.
15:12 < dx> did someone say pre-release
15:12 < dx> i sure hope burger works this time, gotta inspect some packets
15:48 <+sadimusi> finally got fcgi running :)
15:49 <+sadimusi> apparently suEXEC doesn't like it if others have writing privileges to the folder my .fcgi script is in
15:53 < dx> oh, yep, suexec is annoyingly strict about privileges
15:54 <+sadimusi> I'm still not sure wether /release should redirect to /1.6 or just show the 1.6 output. any thoughts?
15:55 <+sadimusi> currently it just shows it http://beta.ceilingcat.ch/release~1...release
16:01 < dx> oooh nice, release~1, looks like git commits/tags
16:01 < dx> considering it like a tag, it makes more sense to show the 1.6 output instead of redirecting
16:02 < dx> lol 404 http://beta.ceilingcat.ch/1.6...1.6
16:08 <+sadimusi> :D there are still a few issues to work out
16:08 <+sadimusi> especially with the packet instruction topping
16:57 < dav1d> 17 seconds lag awesome
16:57 < dav1d> [Lag: 17,627] 
16:57 < dav1d> -_-
16:59 < dav1d> ever tried to buffer a youtube video with 36% packetloss...
17:45 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2055 9 files : Another change to the way default mapgen presets work.
19:53 < dx> sadimusi: needs more automated download of snapshots and pre-releases
19:53 < dx> (1.6.1 is out)
19:55 < dx> http://dpaste.com/1274231/
19:55 < dx> it's real.
19:56 < dx> md_5: it actually happened
19:56 < dx> so uhm
19:56 < dx> don't mind me, but:
19:57 < dx> FUCK YEAH!
19:57  * dx hugs Grum
20:35 < dav1d> dx: utf.8?
20:40 < dx> dav1d: nah
20:40 < dx> dav1d: and that's not something to add in a point release anyway
20:40 < dav1d> dx: in theory a 5min job to add
20:41 < dx> dav1d: like everything :P
20:43 < dx> dav1d: actually i think that this change to the ping packet would allow switching to utf-8 keeping backwards compat of clients that expect UCS-2
20:44 < dav1d> I don't care about backwards compat :P
20:44 < dav1d> also I don't understand why mojang suddenly does
20:44 < dx> dav1d: they do, for the ping packet
20:44 < dx> and only that one
20:44 < dexter0> for ping they should
20:44 < dav1d> dx: oh only ping
20:44 < dav1d> I see
20:45 < dav1d> then I misunderstood it, I thought it was a goal for everything
20:45 < dx> every protocol number change is a break in backwards compatibility, so yeah.
20:48 < dx> hmm, given the nature of the ping packet, i think the sanest way to implement it is to assume it's a different protocol
20:49 < dx> there's the schrodinger byte and switching to utf-8 would also add a different kind of conditional parsing
20:49 < dav1d> dx: well I wouldn't care if the ping packet is still in UCS-2 :>
20:49 < dx> ...oh right you can do that
20:49 < dx> lol.
20:50 < dx> and it's actually a much saner solution
21:08 <+sadimusi> dx: it doesn't update automatically yet, but it'll be way easier now with the version list
21:10 < dx> sadimusi: :D
21:11 <+sadimusi> I still have no idea why the packets topping stopped working on the server
21:12 <+sadimusi> it works fine on my machine and with all versions < 1.6 on the server
21:12 < Drainedsoul> They could just switch to UTF-16 instead of UTF-8 if they want to maintain backwards compatibility.  That would only break backwards compat for high/low surrogate pairs, which you shouldn't be encoding anyway
21:12 < Drainedsoul> admittedly UTF-16 is a pretty awful encoding, but you can just abstract that away from yourself
21:19 < InfinitePulsing> Damn computer
21:20 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: if you use utf-8 you save a tiny bit of bandwith
21:20 < dav1d> so why not doing it
21:20 < dav1d> it will add up
21:23 < InfinitePulsing> This
21:23 < Yoshi2> with utf8, strings that only use the standard ascii character set should use roughly 50% less data than they did with the ucs-2 encoding
21:23 < InfinitePulsing> Computer
21:24 < dav1d> Yoshi2: yeah but not much strings are sent in comparison to other packets
21:24 < Yoshi2> dav1d: that is true
21:25 < dav1d> still, also if we get json-chat (well we already have it), it has a bigger impact 
21:25 < Drainedsoul> I was more thinking of getting the advantages of UTF-16 (full code space coverage) without losing backwards compat, since people seem worried about that
21:26 < Drainedsoul> the only sensible encodings to use are UTF-8 and UTF-32.  UTF-16 takes the disadvantages of both, but the advantages of neither, it's so wild
21:27 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: protocol breaks anyways
21:27 < dav1d> (every release)
21:28 < Drainedsoul> yeah but people get their knickers in a twist about the ping packet
21:28 < Drainedsoul> I don't see what reason they have for not switching to UTF-8.  It SHOULD be like a one line change.
21:28 < Drainedsoul> SHOULD be
21:30 < Yoshi2> it should be as long as nothing depends on characters in a string having a fixed size
21:30 < Drainedsoul> well the point is that the strings should be decoded in one place, so you just change the decoding in that one place and then let the Java string abstractions take care of the rest
21:30 < Drainedsoul> the wildest part is that Java strings are UTF-16 internally, so using UCS-2 makes even less sense
21:32 <+sadimusi> they changed all the packets to use DataOutput instead of DataOutputStream, maybe they want to write their own DataOutput with a writeChars() which sends utf-8
21:32 <+sadimusi> (they could have just subclassed DataOutputStream for that purpose though)
21:34 < dav1d> actually, I brought that up, Gr*m meant it's too much work, I asked, what if I implement it, will it get into minecraft? he said maybe
21:34 < Drainedsoul> oh right, I forgot about reliance on inflexible high-level language abstractions.  I just assumed everyone wrote an abstraction around Berkeley Sockets/epoll/kqueue/iocp
21:43 < InfinitePulsing> Sadi didn't  I  make something like that
21:43 < InfinitePulsing> ?
21:44 < InfinitePulsing> A writeChar() thing.. sorta.
21:47 < InfinitePulsing> test
22:58 <+Amaranthus> Drainedsoul: It isn't one line to switch to UTF-8, Java's String is UCS-2
22:59 <+Amaranthus> I mean, so long as you stick to the limits of UCS-2 I suppose it wouldn't be hard to switch
23:06 < dav1d> Amaranth: http://vp.dav1d.de/yTfg?ReadUTF8.java
23:07 <+Amaranth> dav1d: Like I said, so long as you stick to the limits of UCS-2 it wouldn't be hard
23:07 < Drainedsoul> umm
23:07 < dav1d> Amaranth: no limits
23:07 < Drainedsoul> Amaranthus: http://docs.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/lang/String.html => "A String represents a string in the UTF-16 format [...]"
23:07 < Drainedsoul> it's almost as though I know what I'm talking about, weird eh
23:08 <+Amaranth> Java originally used UCS-2, and added UTF-16 supplementary character support in J2SE 5.0. However, non-BMP characters require the individual surrogate halves to be entered individually, for example: "\uD834\uDD1E" for U+1D11E.
23:08 < Drainedsoul> that doesn't make the strings UCS-
23:08 < Drainedsoul> 2
23:08 <+Amaranth> Huh, so they don't really support it and only started saying they did in 1.5
23:09 < Drainedsoul> a compliant UCS-2 implementation will not represent high/low surrogates at all, so the fact that surrogates appear in the string by definition makes it not UCS-2
23:11 < Drainedsoul> as for Java originally using UCS-2, that's because the BMP was originally the entire Unicode code space
23:16 <+Amaranth> hmm, I could have sworn UTF-8 was older than UCS-2 but it seems not
23:17 <+Amaranth> In any case I would consider UTF-16 support to mean I could put in \u1D11E (or perhaps just type 𝄞)  and have it figure things ou
23:17 <+Amaranth> out*
23:18 < Drainedsoul> \u escaping doesn't allow 5 hex digits pretty much universally
23:20 < Drainedsoul> I do really like how the G clef is everyone's go to outside the BMP character
23:22 <+Amaranth> I actually wouldn't know about the escaping, I've never used it. I just write my files in UTF-8 and put the actual characters :P
23:23 <+Amaranth> Drainedsoul: The real test is this: Does Java say "\uD834\uDD1E" has a length of 1 or 2?
23:23 < Drainedsoul> virtually no modern string abstraction does that, the only one I can think of that might is Python because I'm p. sure Python stores UTF-32 internally
23:23 < Drainedsoul> .NET doesn't, Java doesn't, etc., they'll all say 2
23:24 < Drainedsoul> of course then you run into the question of the actual usefulness of that information
23:24 <+Amaranth> I'm pretty sure Python is more complicated than that in version 3 and scales between ASCII, UCS-2, and UCS-4 depending on string contents (with conversion penalties when it has to switch) but I might be making that up based on an idea someone had for Python 3
23:24 < Drainedsoul> what good does it really do you to know how many codepoints long a string is.  That doesn't really correlate to anything useful
23:25 < Drainedsoul> it certainly doesn't correlate to how many characters the user thinks are in the string
23:25 < Drainedsoul> I think what most people want when they count the "characters" in a string, is to know how many grapheme clusters are in the string
23:25 < Drainedsoul> but that's even further removed from the reality of must Unicode string implementations
23:27 < Drainedsoul> of course most of the programming world is anglocentric, and with the exception of CRLF for almost all English text 1 code point = 1 grapheme cluster
23:31 <+Amaranth> CRLF is mainly only used on Windows though
23:31 < Drainedsoul> umm
23:31 < Drainedsoul> r u srs
23:32 < Drainedsoul> all of HTTP, SMTP, and FTPs line endings are mandated to be CRLFs
23:32 <+Amaranth> Right, forgot about protocols it was written in to
23:33 <+Amaranth> I meant in text editors and such
23:33 < Drainedsoul> yeah that's true.  But the beautiful part about Unicode awareness is that CRLF and LF both will show up as one grapheme cluster that is a line break if you're parsing properly
23:33 < Drainedsoul> so if you use Unicode correctly the age old "CRLF or LF" divide disappears
23:34 <+Amaranth> EIther I don't understand how that is or I've never seen unicode used correctly
23:34 < Drainedsoul> well it's because most Unicode implementations aren't really Unicode implementations
23:34 < Drainedsoul> they're just a buffer of some size of "character" and they're totally Unicode ignorant
23:35 < Drainedsoul> where "character" has no actual Unicode meaning at all, there are code points and there are grapheme clusters.
23:35 <+Amaranth> Well that is the idea, just read in some bytes, write some bytes, and let someone else deal with it :P
23:35 <+Amaranth> err, ideal
23:36 < Drainedsoul> U+0061 is a code point.  U+00E1 is a code point.  Both of the aforegoing are grapheme clusters.  But U+0061, U+0301 is two code points, one grapheme cluster, and should for all reasons and purposes be considered identical to U+00E1
23:37 <+Amaranth> Yep, don't think I've ever seen that as a thing
23:37 < Drainedsoul> what?  normalization?
23:38 < Drainedsoul> U+00E1 is the small letter a with acute, in Normalization Form: Canonical Composition, whereas U+0061, U+0301 is the small letter a followed by the combining mark acute above, which is U+00E1 normalized to Normalization Form: Canonical Decomposition
23:39 < Drainedsoul> you have to normalize if you want to compare or sort strings in any kind of sane or consistent way
23:39 < Drainedsoul> otherwise á!=á but also á=á
23:39 <+Amaranth> Oh, I didn't pay attention to the specific points, I thought we were still talking about CRLF
23:40 < Drainedsoul> CRLF and LF are actually not equivalent Unicode sequences :(
23:40 <+Amaranth> But to be honest in my time I've mostly relied on Python and glib to deal with all the nuances of size, sorting, etc and pango to display the result correctly
23:41 <+Amaranth> And I've just written everything in UTF-8 and to load/save in UTF-8
23:41 < Drainedsoul> yeah as long as you use a library that's unicode-aware, and don't muck around with the strings yourself, you're good.  It's when you start indexing into strings and using unicode-unaware substring functions
23:41 < Drainedsoul> like the JAva and .NET substring functions are literally capable of turning valid Unicode into invalid Unicode by slicing a surrogate pair in half
23:41 < Drainedsoul> : |
23:42 <+Amaranth> Most of what I know about unicode comes from Behdad Esfahbod's blog posts about pango and harfbuzz :P
23:42 < Drainedsoul> All of what I know about Unicode comes from reading the Unicode Consortium's documents
23:43 <+Amaranth> Yeah, I guess the difference is I only cared about how to not break it while you seem to care about how it works
23:44 < Drainedsoul> well I was super exhausted with trying to fiddle around with Unicode in a safe way in languages whose standard libraries don't even pretend to know about Unicode
23:44 < Drainedsoul> C/C++ namely
23:44 < Drainedsoul> so I wrote my own Unicode string/regular expression engine
23:44 <+Amaranth> Honestly I think the C approach is better than most languages
23:45 < Drainedsoul> when you get down to it, it is.  It doesn't pretend to know about Unicode.  C# and Java's dangerous pretending is far worse, because it makes the programmer think you've taken care of it for them, when that's not it at all
23:45 <+Amaranth> That is, it doesn't even try to pretend to deal with strings beyond defining a char type that for most people just means "a byte that is a part of a string"
23:45 < dav1d> D o/
23:45 < dav1d> strings are utf-8, std.uni, std.utf operate correctly on unicode
23:46 < Drainedsoul> are they grapheme cluster aware, or just code point aware?
23:46 < dav1d> also iterating over it yields dchar (32bit unicode code-points)
23:46 < dav1d> I think code-point, (std.uni)
23:46 <+Amaranth> Is anything grapheme cluster aware?
23:46 <+Amaranth> I don't even think glib or go are
23:46 < dav1d> not sure about std.utf that is new!
23:46 < Drainedsoul> well, nothing I've seen.  My string implementation is, but that means nothing to anyone except me ;)
23:46 < dav1d> and written by someone who knows what he's doing (my impressioin)
23:47 <+Amaranth> And glib is made by people who tend to care about such things
23:47 < Drainedsoul> if it yields dchar, and that's 32-bit wide, then it's code point aware
23:47 < Drainedsoul> but grapheme clusters don't have a fixed width
23:47 <+Amaranth> That's mainly a problem with arabic, right?
23:47 < Drainedsoul> CJK has a lot of multi-code point grapheme clusters
23:48 < Drainedsoul> any language that uses accented latin characters has the potention for multi-code point grapheme clusters, if the text is decomposed
23:48 < Drainedsoul> *potential
23:48 <+Amaranth> Ah, I guess this shows where I learned this kind of stuff, Behdad Esfahbod was mainly worried about arabic vs farsi rendering since they use the same codepoints iirc
23:49 < Drainedsoul> the coolest part about Unicode is if your language/library of choice implements the character database.  Then you don't have to write arrays of "upper case characters" like you had to dealing with ASCII strings in C
23:49 < Drainedsoul> you can just query the database and see if it's a lower case/upper case/title case character
23:50 < Drainedsoul> if it's a digit, what its numerical value is, etc.
23:51 < Drainedsoul> certain arabic languages being written right-to-left is interesting, because embedded English text is still left-to-right.  Go try typing arabic text into Google search in Chrome sometime, and then type English text in the middle
23:55 <+Amaranth> Drainedsoul: Isn't that database just converting a unicode appendix into some kind of associative array in your language of choice?
23:55 < dav1d> import unicodedata?
23:56 < dav1d> ^ python
23:56 < Drainedsoul> yeah the way I did it was I downloaded the TXT files that define the various properties, parsed them out programmatically, and programmatically generated a 9 megabyte CPP source file
23:56 < Drainedsoul> and then I use a binary search to find code points
23:56 < dx> dav1d: before you mentioned python i thought 'imagemagick'. i have issues.
--- Day changed sam. juin 29 2013
00:03 < dav1d> dx: ?
00:04 < dx> dav1d: there's an imagemagick command called "import" that has a completely unintuitive name and does screenshots (i think they thought "import the contents of a window/screen")
00:05 < dx> dav1d: so if you type "import something" in a shell, or run a python script with bash, you get a nice crosshair cursor to select something in the screen and stay confused for a while, thinking "oh god how did this get in here i'm not good with computer"
00:12 < dav1d> dx: ah
00:13 < dav1d> I thought you meant the python imagemagick bindings
00:13 < dav1d> haha
00:13 < dav1d> "I'm not good with computer" :D
00:13 < dav1d> anyways, cya, zz time
02:39 < InfinitePulsing> So.. what about puppies >.>
03:00 < iBotPeaches> the new message json killed puppies
03:00 < iBotPeaches> even though i <3 json, i hate change
03:15 < InfinitePulsing> Hah
03:15 < InfinitePulsing> >.> So about the cute faces of minecraft animals..
03:16 < InfinitePulsing> *le moo*
03:18 < InfinitePulsing> >.> So about Spawn Eggs
03:19 < InfinitePulsing> Let's make one for Yoshi's..
03:19 < InfinitePulsing> Yoshis*
03:19 <+sadimusi> you might fit in better in #minecraft ;)
03:19 < InfinitePulsing> D:< Sadi I thought you went to sleep
03:19 < InfinitePulsing> I am trying to make conversation >.>
03:33 <+AndrewPH> InfinitePulsing: lmao i love may mays. my favorite is le rage face
03:33 <+AndrewPH> ecks dee
03:33 < InfinitePulsing> may mays?
03:33 < InfinitePulsing> oh
03:33 < InfinitePulsing> Memes.
03:33 < InfinitePulsing> LOL
04:59 < InfinitePulsing> So.. what about those sheep >.>
05:11 < mbaxter> bah
05:27 < AlphaBlend> InfinitePulsing: Dat InfinitePulsing
05:27 < InfinitePulsing> Tap dat.
05:27 < AlphaBlend> AlphaBlend: Recursion!
05:27 < InfinitePulsing> Dat AlphaBlend.
05:27 < AlphaBlend> hello sire
05:27 < AlphaBlend> so what is it that you do?
05:27 < InfinitePulsing> Do you mean Recursion?
05:28 < InfinitePulsing> (Google reference)
05:28 < AlphaBlend> lol
05:28 < AlphaBlend> programming term
05:28 < InfinitePulsing> I do some java
05:28 < InfinitePulsing> I know
05:28 < AlphaBlend> it's not... for the faint of heart
05:28 < AlphaBlend> :P
05:28  * InfinitePulsing cries out Juliet
05:28 < AlphaBlend> i don't use it very much though
05:28 < AlphaBlend> NO!
05:28  * InfinitePulsing cri out
05:28  * AlphaBlend tries to put Juliet back in
05:28  * InfinitePulsing get pulled in
05:28 < AlphaBlend> Claw out!
05:28 < dx> wat
05:29 < SinZ> wat
05:29 < InfinitePulsing> Ow.. bitch, you pulled my braid.
05:29 < dx> drugs are bad kids
05:29 < AlphaBlend> dang,, i forgot the name of that zakpakuto...
05:29 < AlphaBlend> zanpakuto*
05:29 < AlphaBlend> derp
05:29 < InfinitePulsing> LOL DX
05:29 < AlphaBlend> ok i remembered, but can't really spell it
05:30 < AlphaBlend> SinZ: wat
05:30 < InfinitePulsing> AlphaBlend: wat
05:30 < AlphaBlend> are non computer-enthusiasts likely to use "wat" at all?
05:30 < InfinitePulsing> SO WHAT ABOUT MAKING A YOSHI SPAWN EGG
05:31 < SinZ> AlphaBlend: not really
05:31 < AlphaBlend> ehh... >.>
05:31 < InfinitePulsing> I'D NAME IT PICCOLO.
05:31 < dx> seriously, wtf are you two.. doing
05:31 < SinZ> ^
05:31 < InfinitePulsing> It's called: Having fun.
05:31 < AlphaBlend> dx: I don't know...
05:31 < AlphaBlend> dx: What minecraft project are you a part of?
05:32 < dx> absolutely nothing at all
05:32 < dx> i'm just here to troll
05:32 < AlphaBlend> :P
05:32 < InfinitePulsing> So..
05:33 < AlphaBlend> i'm actually more of a plugin dev, but i really do like keeping up with the actual development talk and stuff. I've had to figure out how somethings in vanilla worked, and modified some code, at least the vanilla obfuscated stuff, but not too much
05:33 < InfinitePulsing> I see.
05:33 < AlphaBlend> i'm part of a team of 3 others working on a private plugin as part of a public minecraft community
05:33 < InfinitePulsing> I see a similarity: AlphaBlend is going to be my friend
05:33 < dx> yeah, all i do nowadays is bukkit too
05:33 < InfinitePulsing> I'm not good enough to be part of a team.. yet
05:33 < AlphaBlend> yeah
05:33 < AlphaBlend> well what would interest me is how 1.6 is going to go down with bukkit
05:33 < InfinitePulsing> I know Java but unformalized.
05:34 < dx> some time ago i wrote a shitty protocol parsing proxy and used it to debug random stuff, but now i don't need it and use mc3p
05:34 < AlphaBlend> InfinitePulsing: I joined the team not knowing java at all
05:34 < InfinitePulsing> I learn by example and I don't know a lot of technical terms.
05:34 < InfinitePulsing> But I learn quick as fuck.
05:34 < AlphaBlend> but it's been about 2 years since i joined the team, so i got quite a knowledge of it
05:34 < InfinitePulsing> I see.
05:34 < InfinitePulsing> I learn usually by coding random shit.
05:34 < AlphaBlend> mcp is a really cool tool
05:34 < InfinitePulsing> So I can implement my knowledge.
05:34 < InfinitePulsing> Not really a hardcore gamer.
05:35 < InfinitePulsing> I might be once I get a macbook.
05:35 < AlphaBlend> I actually plugged the original skylands back into minecraft 1.3.1 using mcp and a lot of trial and error
05:35 < dx> wait
05:35 < dx> 00:33 < AlphaBlend> well what would interest me is how 1.6 is going to go down with bukkit
05:35 < dx> AlphaBlend: what do you mean?^
05:35 < SinZ> <InfinitePulsing> Not really a hardcore gamer.
05:35 < SinZ> <InfinitePulsing> I might be once I get a macbook.
05:35 < InfinitePulsing> Yeah
05:35 < SinZ> Gaming on a macbook, good luck with that
05:35 < InfinitePulsing> This computer is shit
05:35 < AlphaBlend> dx: The new changes with colorized text -> json system, then the entity attribute system
05:35 < InfinitePulsing> wait
05:35 < SinZ> s/macbook/mac
05:35 < dx> well, macbooks are intel now... you can install windows on them
05:35 < InfinitePulsing> Gaming being minecraft
05:35 < InfinitePulsing> >.>
05:35 < AlphaBlend> lol
05:36 < InfinitePulsing> Anywa
05:36 < dx> AlphaBlend: oh, that. at least § based colors are supported for this release
05:36 < InfinitePulsing> But I just dev on minecraft to have fun coding
05:36 < AlphaBlend> i'm not sure why apple moved from motorola
05:36 < AlphaBlend> dx: Still? The pre-release lets you color text using them still?
05:36 < InfinitePulsing> I'm not sure why apple is a copyright whore
05:36 < dexter0> The latest MacBook pros have very high end NVidia cards you know.
05:36 < AlphaBlend> InfinitePulsing: Jealousy over abilities
05:36 < dx> AlphaBlend: you have to wrap that in json, but yes
05:36 < AlphaBlend> OMG LET'S COPYRIGHT THE FINGER MOVEMENTS TO DO STUFF, LOL!
05:37 < InfinitePulsing> IMG
05:37 < InfinitePulsing> FAIL
05:37 < InfinitePulsing> OMG*
05:37 < InfinitePulsing> "Wait... let's copyright Steve Job's quotes."
05:37 < AlphaBlend> dx: It's really quite addicting to read up on what bukkit does
05:38 < InfinitePulsing> They have a cult around that guy.
05:38 < dx> AlphaBlend: hm? what part of it?
05:38 < AlphaBlend> what sucks is how i don't actually have a real job, and all this stuff is essentially not paving my way through life
05:38 < dx> actually, does bukkit do anything nowadays? :333
05:38 < AlphaBlend> it's almost like a dream job, only it's not
05:38 < AlphaBlend> no.....
05:38 < AlphaBlend> i guess they're tired of all the work for now
05:38 < AlphaBlend> come 1.6 they'll pick back up
05:38 < dx> yeah
05:39 < AlphaBlend> that'll be fun when it happens
05:39 < dx> actually
05:39 < dx> they should have started yesterday
05:39 < AlphaBlend> maybe
05:39 < mbaxter> < dx> actually, does bukkit do anything nowadays? :333
05:39 < AlphaBlend> release is on monday
05:39 < mbaxter> ._.
05:39 < InfinitePulsing> >.> How about watermelons
05:39 < dx> mbaxter: bah, i knew someone who knew better would point that out, shhhh
05:39 < AlphaBlend> mbaxter: s/anything/anything dev related/
05:40 < dx> mbaxter: i meant that the api development isn't progressing as quickly as it used to be
05:40 < mbaxter> AlphaBlend: What is bukkit not doing currently, other than pushing code which obviously isn't going to happen while people are doing 1.6
05:41 < AlphaBlend> mbaxter: Well, they're not required to anyways, I assume they are just tired of having to input work right now, and concentrate on other areas of their lives, but will pick up when 1.6 is released
05:41 < AlphaBlend> mbaxter: I assume other areas of bukkit are still pretty lively, what with the JIRA and BukkitDev are concerned
05:42 < InfinitePulsing> WHAT ABOUT FUCKING COWS >.>
05:42 < InfinitePulsing> (Randomness mode: 100%)
05:42 < dx> ..
05:42 < mbaxter> moo
05:42 < InfinitePulsing> moo
05:42 < mbaxter> AlphaBlend: Input work? Wot?
05:42  * InfinitePulsing licks mbaxter
05:43 < InfinitePulsing> Heh, I like being random
05:43  * mbaxter shudders
05:43 < dx> mbaxter: it's like the API is now "stable" and all the development is focused in updating between versions
05:43 < AlphaBlend> mbaxter: Sorry... PUSHING CODE = input work
05:44 < AlphaBlend> InfinitePulsing: So do I, you should see what goes on in the innectis staff chat skype group...
05:44 < mbaxter> AlphaBlend: Ah. There's been a lot of behind the scenes work, much of which I believe was described in... the RB post maybe?
05:44 < InfinitePulsing> Lol
05:44 < AlphaBlend> mbaxter: Would you say I'm blind?
05:44 < mbaxter> dx: Stable is hardly a good term to describe API that is strongly bound to an ever changing game.
05:44 < mbaxter> AlphaBlend: No?
05:44 < InfinitePulsing> Alpha, you know, you're cool bro.
05:44 < InfinitePulsing> Minecraft is Minecraft, it says "Fuck logic."
05:45 < AlphaBlend> exactly
05:45 < mbaxter> FOUND IT
05:45 < dx> mbaxter: hm, indeed
05:45 < mbaxter> That's why. It was the RB candidate post.
05:45 < AlphaBlend> which is why the Y coordinate is used where the Z coordinate is usually concerned...
05:45 < mbaxter> http://forums.bukkit.org/threads/craftbukkit-1-5-2-r1-0-rb-candidate-is-now-available.153218/
05:45 < mbaxter> There ya go
05:45 < InfinitePulsing> LOL
05:45 < AlphaBlend> Was going to find the post myself...
05:45 < AlphaBlend> but ty
05:46 < dx> "The unfortunate truth is that Bukkit is built on an unpredictable moving target that the project has no control over"
05:46 < dx> says evilseph, mojang employee :D
05:46 < AlphaBlend> mbaxter: I think I was mainly referring to the delay from the RB onwards, which is quite long
05:46 < dx> (i'm not saying that statement isn't true)
05:47 < AlphaBlend> look at all of you
05:47 < AlphaBlend> this channel wouldn't exist if it were not for Markus Persson :D
05:47 < mbaxter> 14 days? That's not long by many standards, to be honest. 
05:48 < AlphaBlend> mbaxter: I wouldn't know, I'm not a bukkit staff member, but you are :P
05:48 < AlphaBlend> that's always an option, to apply and see what happens though
05:50 < AlphaBlend> I'm not going to whine, mbaxter, enough community members do that, and I really could care less about what Bukkit does in a certain time period, I was simply informing what i felt
05:50 < mbaxter> AlphaBlend: I didn't read it as whining :)
05:50 < AlphaBlend> see package rename commit... oh BOY were people happy about that...
05:50 < mbaxter> Also, if you are interested, see the "How do we plan to prevent further delays" section of the RB candidate post
05:50 < AlphaBlend> it took me about 3 days till i finally saw some benefit to it, but others wouldn't for like 8 months
05:51 < mbaxter> many still are blinded by rage and see none :(
05:51 < dx> whoa this page https://github.com/Bukkit/CraftBukkit-Bleeding/branches
05:51 < mbaxter> dx: whoa
05:51 < dx> mbaxter: whoa
05:51 < dx> "Last updated 2 years ago by tahg" awesome.
05:52 < mbaxter> History!
05:52 < dx> 1817 commits behind, you guys can still merge this! i know you can!
05:53 < mbaxter> nope
05:53 < AlphaBlend> mbaxter: You don't see what's so wrong about it, and I actually see only one reason why people would be infuriated, but that reason alone blinds them from the more crucial reason which both you and I know of
05:53 < AlphaBlend> :(
05:54 < dx> i got distracted with these branches and i have no idea what you guys started talking about
05:54 < AlphaBlend> Hey, I'd rather have 1.3x more work than to have 1,300 server owners with corrupt worlds because they still used old plugins
05:54 < AlphaBlend> dx: Let me grab the commit, sec
05:54 < mbaxter> "I can't pretend my code is futureproof against volatile internals anymore! :("
05:54 < AlphaBlend> LOL
05:55 < mbaxter> AlphaBlend: Takes me no additional time to write multi version support at this point.
05:55 < dx> gotta use mcp/forge's magic remapping of everything to have magic support of every version ever
05:55 < dx> i ain't gotta explain shit
05:55 < mbaxter> dx: Which breaks the moment a method works differently, takes different arguments, returns different values.......
05:55 < InfinitePulsing> So
05:55 < AlphaBlend> mbaxter: I never have done that before, but I don't write plugins that go on BukkitDev
05:55 < dx> mbaxter: IT'S MAGIC
05:55 < mbaxter> I have a few base folders with a few approaches to mavenizing multi-version support that I grab depending on waht I need, AlphaBlend :)
05:56 < mbaxter> See: TagAPI, VanishNoPacket.
05:56 < AlphaBlend> besides, we have a tool that can already automate that :P
05:56 < AlphaBlend> ah
05:56 < dx> mbaxter: are these documented methods to link against NMS?
05:56 < mbaxter> You can't automate adapting to future changes in method signature
05:56 < mbaxter> dx: Are what what what?
05:56 < InfinitePulsing> Math class: Unobfuscated Code + Big protocol changes (any big change) = x
05:56 < InfinitePulsing> Just solve it
05:56 < dx> mbaxter: butt butt butt
05:56 < mbaxter> dx: No, what are you asking :P
05:57 < InfinitePulsing> I'll be coding again, type my name to get my attention
05:57 < dx> mbaxter: i mean, the multi-version support stuff you do, and corresponding maven scripts, is that documented somewhere to let other plugin developers stop whining about not being able to use NMS nicely?
05:58 < mbaxter> Wrote a topic about it with a sample repo
05:58 < AlphaBlend> mbaxter: Sorry, we run the tool and it converts the imported names automatically
05:58 < mbaxter> I believe I had that out before the change in CB made it to a recommended build.
05:58 < mbaxter> AlphaBlend: Which only works as long as the method signature is intact, and method functionality is intact, which is even less likely
05:58 < AlphaBlend> dx: https://github.com/Bukkit/CraftBukkit/commit/8f12382e8efc8c39a919af9180dd884caf3720ff here you go, and all 1,508 comments of it :P
05:59 < AlphaBlend> mbaxter: Yeah... I know, well at least it's a base conversion, only the rest is making sure of what you said
05:59 < dx> oh, that one
05:59 < AlphaBlend> yep!
06:02 < dx> it's just a pessimistic approach that guarantees that the code gets tested before you try to use code that is (allegedly) being refactored constantly by mojang... now, uh, remind me what you were complaining about
06:03 < mbaxter> He wasn't complaining, he understands its purpose and usefulness
06:03 < mbaxter> Just discussing \o/
06:03 < AlphaBlend> ^
06:03 < mbaxter> v
06:03 < dx> <
06:04 < InfinitePulsing> >.>
06:04 < AlphaBlend> mbaxter: I can't think of a better approach, but if one existed, it would mean that you could use any plugin despite it not being updated to cohere to package renames, and still be able to alert if a plugin is bad... only that won't happen unless you can stop the execution of the plugin... which I can't think of a better solution to do
06:05 < AlphaBlend> so, there probably isn't a better way to do this
06:05 < mbaxter> Thus, that commit :)
06:05 < dx> i know! add a version to every single fucking method!
06:05 < AlphaBlend> who thought of that?
06:05 < dx> (increase version when signature changes)
06:05 < dx> best idea ever right
06:06 < AlphaBlend> wolvereness made the commit, but someone else thought of that
06:06 < AlphaBlend> dx: That wouldn't be the job of bukkit, since that would be condoning the use of NMS to fill in for API vacancy
06:06 < mbaxter> dx: Why stop there? Just reobfuscate craftbukkit every commit!
06:07 < AlphaBlend> lol
06:08 < InfinitePulsing> Who what now?
06:08 < InfinitePulsing> Do I hear people modifying a product that is obfuscated, then deobfuscatted, and obfuscating a product based on the latter?
06:08 < InfinitePulsing> LIES
06:09 < dx> mbaxter: translate craftbukkit to scala, make a build script that translates back to java but with completely different obfuscation. that way, you don't get diff noise for each commit, but people can't use it directly... most of the time.
06:09 < InfinitePulsing> AlphaBlend
06:09 < InfinitePulsing> Mind joining #communicationTesting
06:09 < InfinitePulsing> I wanna test my bot
06:09 < InfinitePulsing> Sorry mah guinea pig
06:09 < dx> mbaxter: nah, wait, that's dumb. i'm terrible at this "terrible ideas" thing
06:11 < InfinitePulsing> Holy shit
06:11 < InfinitePulsing> It actually worked
06:11 < AlphaBlend> :P
06:11 < InfinitePulsing> First time something worked without an error
06:11 < InfinitePulsing> I suck with arrays
06:11 < InfinitePulsing> xD
06:11 < AlphaBlend> dx: That's just treble, you should feel bad!
06:11 < InfinitePulsing> I did that in Python
06:12 < AlphaBlend> ;o
06:12 < InfinitePulsing> I suck at Python
06:12 < InfinitePulsing> But I made that by looking at one script
06:12 < dx> lewd
06:14 < AlphaBlend> nice
06:15 < AlphaBlend> sigh, almost done re-writing this framework
06:15 < AlphaBlend> we end up loading other plugins to do certain things with, and i'm re-writing it to make it more compact and easy to work with
06:15 < AlphaBlend> lots of files to edit!
06:21 < InfinitePulsing> Curious
06:21 < InfinitePulsing> Alpha, I gawt files
06:21 < InfinitePulsing> Jokin
06:22 < AlphaBlend> lol
06:22 < AlphaBlend> how much of a programmer are you?
06:23 < InfinitePulsing> Well, a lot, it's just that I learn by example, I can write and understand code.
06:23 < InfinitePulsing> I'm not pro like others here, but I will become pro soon ;3
06:24 < InfinitePulsing> Why :3
06:26 < AlphaBlend> learning by example shows you how to construct code, it doesn't teach you why the code is constructed that way
06:27 < InfinitePulsing> ^.^ Yep, except I know a lot of "why"'s too.
06:27 < AlphaBlend> yeah
06:27 < AlphaBlend> cool
06:30 < AlphaBlend> mbaxter: Are you busy at all?
06:32 < mbaxter> AlphaBlend: what's up
06:40 < InfinitePulsing> Hey guys
06:40 < InfinitePulsing> GAIS
06:47 < AlphaBlend> wat
16:31 < Drainedsoul> when you serialize chunks e.g. in 0x33, are the arrays per column, or per chunk?  I.e. do you lead with a block type array of 4096 bytes (for the first chunk) or with a block type array of 4096-65536 bytes (for all the types of all the blocks in the column)?
18:57 < redu> http://youtu.be/E3418SeWZfQ javapocalypse time
22:01 < InfinitePulsing> >..>
22:15 < antonella> hello :-D
22:17 < antonella> Olá
22:18 < Yoshi2> good day, antonella 
22:20 < dx> just watched that javapocalypse vid (again), i like how they say "investigating reports of open source activity" right after someone says "oracle"
22:25 < Calinou> lol
22:33 < InfinitePulsing> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3io8Ys7KSGY
22:33 < InfinitePulsing> Le shivere..
22:38 < InfinitePulsing> 俺は蜂が好きない。
22:38 < InfinitePulsing> 俺は蜂が好きない。
22:38 < InfinitePulsing> Ore wa hachi ga suki nai..
22:39 < InfinitePulsing> ORE WA HACHI GA SUKI NAIYO
22:40 < antonella> anyone know speaks spanisk
22:40 < antonella> ???
22:40 < antonella> :-/
22:40 < dx> antonella: maybe
22:40 < dx> InfinitePulsing: u wot m8
22:41 < Calinou> dx: LE BAGUETTE ( | | | | | )
22:41 < InfinitePulsing> I don't like bees
22:41 < dx> er..
22:41 < dx> InfinitePulsing: why are you posting that and why are you talking in japanese
22:41 < dx> InfinitePulsing: why
22:41 < antonella> l ´ m from venezuela
22:42 < InfinitePulsing> Ore (I) wa (topic) hachi (bee/wasp), ga (~subject) suki (likeable) nai (negative)
22:42 < InfinitePulsing> For the  lulz, dx.
22:42 < dx> InfinitePulsing: wrong channel for that
22:43 < InfinitePulsing> Dx..
22:43 < InfinitePulsing> It is so silent here.
22:43 < InfinitePulsing> Stop trolling
22:43 < InfinitePulsing> こいつはバカだ。
22:43 < InfinitePulsing> (He is an idiot.)
22:43 < InfinitePulsing> Well, (This guy is a fool.)
22:43 < dx> welcome to irc
22:44 < Yoshi2> 'baka' is as far as my japanese goes
22:44 < dx> constant activity is not required here
22:44 < InfinitePulsing> bakadayo
22:45 < InfinitePulsing> Wow, My excited side came in
22:45 < InfinitePulsing> I only put -yo when I'm roused up
22:45 < dx> ..:V
22:45 < Yoshi2> tell that to the guy who invented the yoyo
22:46 < InfinitePulsing> -yo is a sentence ending particle
22:46 < antonella>  haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa no se lo que diceeeeeeeeen
22:49 < InfinitePulsing> You don't understand?
22:50 < InfinitePulsing> Yo comprendo espanol un pocito poco poco POCO.
22:50 < InfinitePulsing> But go to another channel.
22:50 < InfinitePulsing> I needa stop speaking other languages,
22:54 < dx> i PM'd her to talk in spanish
22:54 < dx> turns out that she joined this channel picking randomly from the channel list
22:55 < dx> so... derp.
22:55 < antonella> haaaaaaaaaaa nadien habla español bueno solo dx
22:55 < antonella> XD jejeje
22:55 < antonella> y yo
22:55 < antonella> XD XDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
22:56 < dx> antonella: eh...
22:56 < antonella> leer 
22:56 < antonella> q nadie habla es español solo tu y yo entedites XD
22:58 < dx> sigh
23:00 < dx> she had to ask what's an "admin"...
23:02 < InfinitePulsing> LO
23:02 < InfinitePulsing> LOL
23:02 < InfinitePulsing> LOL
23:02 < InfinitePulsing> ?MOP
23:02 < InfinitePulsing> You're lying.
23:02 < dx> what
23:02 < dx> i need to take a break from irc, i think i can't handle the weirdness
23:05 < Yoshi2> "What's an admin?" wouldn't be the weirdest thing I've ever heard
23:05 < Yoshi2> in fact, that's one of the more reasonable questions
23:07 < dx> that's not the weird part
23:08 < Yoshi2> I know, I find InfinitePulsing's reaction very exaggerated
23:43 < InfinitePulsing> I hate life..
23:45 < InfinitePulsing> And then it squirted all over my keyboard
23:45 < InfinitePulsing> I guess that didn't work
23:45 < InfinitePulsing> Tried that thing from bash.org
23:45 < InfinitePulsing> where when  someone  came in
23:45 < InfinitePulsing> a guy said that
23:52 < dx> welcome to irc
23:52 < dx> it's not like bash.org
23:57 < InfinitePulsing> dx
23:57 < InfinitePulsing> dx
23:57 < InfinitePulsing> f
23:57 < InfinitePulsing> uc
23:57 < InfinitePulsing> ky.u
23:57 < dx> ..
23:59 < dx> okay, whatever, i'm sorry, i'll stop caring about whatever your interpretation of how irc works is, and let you live in your own world where you seem to cure your boredom while pretending that #mcdevs is a really entertaining place
--- Day changed dim. juin 30 2013
00:02 < Morrolan> It is quite entertaining at times. There's not many channels where a member who's been rather impolite doesn't get banned for a long time, then gets banned, gets unbanned, and gets banned agani!
00:03 < Morrolan> s/agani/again/
00:03 < iBotPeaches> this new chat json thing is the devil
00:03 < InfinitePulsing> I don't know JSON
00:03 < dx> Morrolan: yeah, "at times"
00:03 < InfinitePulsing> *pokerface*
00:04 < Morrolan> dx: Okay, you got a point. ;)
00:05 < InfinitePulsing> Dx, dear, I frankly don't give a fuck.
00:05 < Morrolan> InfinitePulsing: I've got good news for you, you don't need to "know" JSON if you're using a reasonable programming language which parses it for you.
00:05 < dx> InfinitePulsing: I DO GIVE FUCKS
00:05 < dx> InfinitePulsing: BECAUSE YOU GOT THE QUOTE WRONG
00:05 < iBotPeaches> If our packet length max for 0x03 didn't increase, and we introduced json, I will be sad
00:06 < dx> i did say i needed to take a break, but i'm still trying to get the dotnet 4.0 framework installed
00:11 < InfinitePulsing> Well, I'm coding Project Tursiops later.
00:11 < InfinitePulsing> Delphinidae.
00:12 < iBotPeaches> well, taking the max characters that the client allowed was 101, including the username w/ color attribute, attached to the json text:, with color attribute
00:12 < iBotPeaches> put us around 180bytes
00:12 < iBotPeaches> and still worked, so whew :)
00:13 < dx> iBotPeaches: what max length
00:13 < iBotPeaches> chat message
00:14 < dx> yes i know
00:14 < dx> the server can send up to 32kb which is just the limitation of the signed shorts that give the field length
00:14 < dx> how is that an issue?
00:15 < iBotPeaches> there is no issue, im mainly talking to myself as I update 1.5.2 -> 1.6.1
00:15 < iBotPeaches> I believe in something older than 1.4 there was a 100char limit
00:16 < iBotPeaches> and we still had the code to auto split and resend the message in multiple packets, that with JSOn is a no no, thus my above messages
00:16 < dx> 1.2.5 changed that
00:16 < iBotPeaches> ive been out of it for a long time :)
00:18 < InfinitePulsing> Project Tursiops.
00:20 < InfinitePulsing> Dolphins.
00:20 < InfinitePulsing> Epicness.
00:20 < InfinitePulsing> Yas.
01:29 <+sadimusi> the JS library for google font is hosted on github, not google code o.O
01:39 < dav1d>  RX errors 0  dropped 94605  overruns 0  frame 0
01:39 < dav1d> :>
09:25 <+md_5> so
09:26 <+md_5> if someone could email me the necessary NDA's to get the 1.5.2 and 1.6.1 obfuscation mappings I'll have them couried back to sweden with 2-3 days.
10:21 < dav1d> md_5: this is possible?
10:21 < dav1d> sign a NDA and get basically unobfuscated minecraft?
10:25 < Yoshi2> dav1d: if Mojang offers such a service, maybe
10:25 <+md_5> dav1d no :3   backstory is I want to update Spigot sooner rather than later
10:25 < dav1d> why would they do that?
10:25 <+md_5> was a bit of a poke saying the lengths I would go to :p
10:27 < Yoshi2> damn, I knew that sounded too good to be true
10:28 <+md_5> well
10:28 <+md_5> Yoshi2 dav1d  a few other parties already get access to the mappings
10:28 <+md_5> so yeah
10:29 < dav1d> but they work on it, don't they?
10:29 <+md_5> no
12:14 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2056 8 files : Renamed MapGenTheme.Forest to MapGenTheme.Grass. Added EnumUtil.TryComplete method. Improvements to /SetGen.
12:31 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2057 2 files : Finished integrating FlatMapGen with /SetGen
13:02 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2058 2 files : Fixed the way VanillaMapGen handles CaveDensity and OreDensity parameters.
17:23 < Jishaxe> Hi, I plan to write a simplified Minecraft server in Node.JS for a minigame. I don't want to write my own map generator, is it feasible to somehow hook into Minecraft's one?
17:30 < dav1d> iirc mcedit does that
17:30 < dav1d> reset the spawn of the map, launch minecraft, let it generate the terrain, kill minecraft
17:31 < dx> completely ignoring the legal side which is as gray as with any kind of modding, you'll have to mess with the java code, adapt it to be usable from outside, and then have a JVM running alongside your own server... which kinda defeats the purpose of writing your own.
17:31 < dx> dav1d: hah interesting, completely external then
19:00 < TRocket> what happened to the notifico bot?
19:01 < dx> hmm probably going to ping out
19:02 < dav1d> TkTech: ^
19:03 < TkTech> TRocket: You mean Not-001…? It's here.
19:03 < TRocket> TkTech: my commits aren't appearing
19:03 < TRocket> http://n.tkte.ch/TRocket/BenchCraft
19:04 < dx> TkTech: i sent a ctcp ping and got no reply, but then i realized that i'm not sure if you even implemented ctcp ping, so now i'm trying to read the source
19:04 < mbaxter> Is current resource pack support just textures?
19:04 < dx> no, also sounds and translations
19:05 < dx> and maybe something else
19:05 < mbaxter> Is that actually supported in the client, or just planned though?
19:05 < dx> pretty sure it's supported but haven't confirmed that myself
19:07 < mbaxter> This is the only documentation on the mojang site other than that jar file which converts texture packs https://gist.github.com/Dinnerbone/5662824
19:07 < dx> featuring comments by SirCmpwn
19:08 < dav1d> that is dumb lol
19:08 < dx> and yes, that's not even the final version of the resource pack format
19:08 < dav1d> assuming the "clamp" stuff etc. is implemented like that...
19:09 < dav1d> that is a pure performance killer
19:09 < mbaxter> Sigh. Anybody have an updated reference? I'd like to get started on building a sound pack for my server if it's there.
19:09 < dx> dav1d: deja vu
19:10 < dav1d> dx: mh?
19:10 < dx> dav1d: we talked about this before
19:10 < dav1d> dx: yes we did
19:10 < dav1d> it's still valid
19:10 < Thinkofdeath> mbaxter: I think for sounds the path just has to match the orginal one (unless your doing custom sounds)
19:10 < dx> dav1d: you even got a reply from ｇｒｕｍ saying something along the lines of "it's not as bad as you think, only one texture needs it"
19:11 < dav1d> dx: I don't remember that reply
19:12 < dav1d> dx: also would be interesting to see what happens if you set this param for e.g. stone
19:12 < mbaxter> Thinkofdeath: The gist there implies there's planned entries for it. I'd assume you would need those.
19:13 < Thinkofdeath> mbaxter: Not sure, I was going from DB twitter where he said just change the / with a . for the sound name to add your own sounds
19:14 < dx> dav1d: interesting idea!
19:14 < dav1d> dx: no not interesting, horrible
19:14 < dx> dav1d: interesting because it's a quick way to prove that clamp is horrible as you say :P
19:15 < dav1d> assuming they implemented it properly (so it would actually work for stone, even if it is useless)
19:15 < Thinkofdeath> mbaxter: https://twitter.com/Dinnerbone/status/350631272239988736
19:15 < dav1d> dx: clamp would do nothing, except make the texture unesable for the terrain-atlas
19:15 < Dinnerbone> Soundpack support isn't complete
19:15 < Dinnerbone> You can replace sounds right now but not add or remove
19:16 < mbaxter> Thanks, mr bone
19:16 < Thinkofdeath> Dinnerbone: Ah thanks 
19:16 < Dinnerbone> That will be coming in the next update, where we'll switch from "filename" to "sound event" system
19:16 < dav1d> Dinnerbone: this makes only sense for "standalone" textures which aren't packed into an atlas
19:16 < dav1d> Dinnerbone: sorry, that was supposed to go to dx
19:16 < mbaxter> Dinnerbone: What about translations?
19:16 < dav1d> dx: and you should always try to get as many textures as possible into an atlas
19:17 < dav1d> (depending on the usecase, for minecraft that is valid)
19:17 < dx> dav1d: around line 25, added context just because http://dpaste.com/1276379/
19:18 < dav1d> SirCmpwn so nice speaking of BraLa <3
19:18 < dx> also, this is where i realize that using dpaste links that always expire is not a great idea.
19:19 < dx> heh yeah, but it's hard to compare BraLa with the minecraft renderer when we don't know shit about opengl
19:19 < dav1d> would be interesting if they actually allowed clamp:true etc. for terrain textures
19:19 < dx> do they not?
19:19 < dav1d> dx: well minecraft supports opengl 1.2 (lol)
19:19 < dav1d> dx: because it makes no sense at all
19:20 < dx> i mean, the resource pack system seems to allow it...
19:20 < dav1d> if clamp:true means GL_CLAMP 
19:20 < dav1d> glTexParameter(tex, GL_TEXTURE_WRAP_*, GL_CLAMP)
19:20 < dav1d> man I made so many abstractions, I had to look that command up
19:21 < dav1d> I even think it's glTexParameterf
19:21 < dx> what i'm saying is that you can just go ahead, grab the default resource pack, modify to use clamp for stone or dirt or whatever, and see it with your own eyes
19:21 < dav1d> dx: clamp has no impact on the texture
19:21 < dx> dav1d: there surely must be a reason that it's needed for one or two, though
19:21 < dav1d> dx: clamp only says how to handle texture-coordinates > 1, < 0
19:22 < dx> hm i see
19:22 < dav1d> dx: GL_REPEAT means, the texture is virtually appended to the sides
19:22 < dav1d> so setting GL_CLAMP makes absolutely no sense e.g. for stone
19:22 < dav1d> the clamp value should be internal
19:23 < dx> 'internal' where?
19:23 < dav1d> dx: in minecraft
19:23 < dav1d> texture X, requires GL_CLAMP, because our texture coordinates require that
19:23 < dx> as in something that shouldn't be configurable?
19:23 < dav1d> since you can't influence the texture coordinates from outside, you shouldn't be able to change the GL_CLAMP either
19:23 < dav1d> dx: right
19:24 < dav1d> GL_CLAMP makes only sense if your texture coordinates require that
19:24 < dav1d> (off topic, I want minecraft to support: https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/res/brala.conf#L17 )
19:24 < dav1d> +line 18
19:24 < dx> github protip: shift-click a line number, it extends the highlight
19:25 < dav1d> ah yeah, I always forget about that one, thanks
19:25 < dav1d> I mean, mipmapping is literally only +1 line
19:25 < dx> optifine has mipmaps, it's a really nice improvement
19:25 < dav1d> and 2 lines changed
19:25 < dav1d> it is really nothing more
19:26 < dx> literally 1 line for #mcdevs
19:26 < dav1d> opengl generates the mipmaps for you (if you tell it to do it) and you have to set the texture parameter
19:26 < dav1d> dx: if they need more, the whole codebase is fucked up
19:26 < dav1d> really fucked up
19:26 < dx> dav1d: guess what reply we got every single time we suggested one line changes
19:26 < dx> (hint: apparently it is)
19:26 < dav1d> dx: well, that is one opengl command
19:27 < dav1d> and changing the texture parameters...
19:27 < dx> yeah i know, but i wouldn't be surprised if there was *something* that suddenly makes it not-trivial
19:27 < dav1d> making it configureable, probably a bit more
19:28 < dav1d> dx: https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/brala/gfx/terrain.d#L312-L316
19:28 < dav1d> the only difference
19:28 < dav1d> (because I generate mipmaps for textures by default)
19:28 < dx> that's five lines!
19:28 < dx> why are you such a liar
19:28 < dx> (:3)
19:28 < dav1d> glGenerateMipmap would be the 2nd line, or the setting the auto-generate parameter for older opengl versions
19:28 < dav1d> dx: nope
19:29 < dx> kidding, kidding
19:29 < dav1d> dx: one line glGenerateMipmap + changing GL_NEAREST to GL_NEAREST_MIPMAP_LINEAR
19:29 < dav1d> :)
19:29 < dav1d> +1 line, 1 line changed :)
19:29 < dx> GL_NEAREST_MIPMAP_LINEAR <-- doesn't sound like this would look smooth
19:29 < dav1d> dx: that is exactly what you want
19:29 < dav1d> dx: GL_NEAREST is the current
19:29 < dx> right
19:30 < dav1d> otherwise your textures would be blurry n' stuff
19:30 < dx> which is what every other lowres non-minecraft game does, right?
19:30 < dx> we love pixels
19:30 < dav1d> yes
19:30 < dx> okay, i get it then
19:30 < dav1d> but minecraft textures are so low-res that it looks like shit
19:30 < dav1d> basically interpolation between texture pixels
19:30 < dav1d> *texels, whatever
19:31 < dx> wouldn't it be better to interpolate when we have higher res textures?
19:31 < dav1d> dx: well that function specifies the filter if the area to texture is > than the texture provides pixels
19:31 < dav1d> MAG_FILTER and MIN_FILTER does the opposite
19:32 < dav1d> dx: probably would look better yeah, since higher res texture packs tend to get rid of the characteristic pixels in the textures
19:32 < dav1d> if you still wan't them, then GL_NEAREST is what you want
19:33 < dav1d> (dat terrain.d is horrible)
19:33 < dx> so MAG_FILTER means that it does NEAREST without mipmaps regardless of the config if the texture is high res?
19:33 < dav1d> but I like it :)
19:33 < dav1d> dx: depending on the option
19:33 < dav1d> dx: GL_NEAREST = no mipmaps
19:33 < dx> yeah, but sampler.set_parameter(GL_TEXTURE_MAG_FILTER, GL_NEAREST);
19:33 < dav1d> dx: GL_NEAREST_MIPMAP_LINEAR well, GL_NEAREST + MIPMAPS linear
19:34 < dx> that's GL_NEAREST always for MAG_FILTER
19:34 < dav1d> dx: ah sorry the min filter is the important one
19:34 < dx> what is mag for then?
19:34  * dx is finding it hard to try to pretend to understand this
19:35 < dav1d> dx: you can't have a mipmap MAG filter
19:35 < dav1d> dx: obvious?
19:35 < dav1d> mipmaps scale down the texture, but mag filter is used for areas > texture
19:35 < dav1d> so a smaller texture doesn't help you here at all
19:35 < dx> oooh, okay, i get it.
19:36 < dx> you got the > backwards before then
19:36 < dav1d> and for the characteristic minecraft pixel-style textures you need GL_NEAREST
19:36 < dav1d> dx: yeah my bad, sorry 'bout that, waas mixing up min and mag filter
19:36 < dx> dav1d: so back to clamp, is it always "evil"?
19:37 < dav1d> dx: no, it is not evil in general, it simply shouldn't be exposed to the user
19:37 < dx> oh okay, that makes sense
19:37 < dav1d> dx: GL_REPEAT (the other options): 1.X → 0.X, 234234.X → 0.X
19:37 < dav1d> dx: GL_CLAMP: 1.X → 1, 324223.X → 1
19:37 < dav1d> for texture coordinates
19:38 < dav1d> opengl texture coordinates are limited to a range from 0 to 1 (normalized coordinates for the lookup)
19:38 < dav1d> so instead of texture[pixelrow, pixelcolumn] you do texture[pixelrow/height, pixelcolumn/width]
19:39 < dav1d> only that it pixelcolumn then pixelrow
19:39 < dav1d> dx: now if you want to set GL_CLAMP on a texture, you have to separate it from the others → preventing putting all small textures into one big
19:40 < dav1d> dx: one big has the advantage, you only have to upload the texture once and you don't have to switch it while drawing blocks
19:40 < dx> dav1d: wouldn't it do the rendering in two passes if there are two sets of textures?
19:41 < dx> (not sure if this makes sense)
19:41 < dav1d> dx: correct and that complicates things and makes them slow, too
19:41 < dav1d> dx: you would have to render blocks with different textures sepeartly
19:41 < dav1d> → more opengl calls → slower
19:41 < dav1d> also switchignt textures → even more opengl calls
19:41 < dx> oh, you can't put every GL_CLAMP texture in a single texture map either?
19:41 < dav1d> dx: you can but that would be useless again
19:42 < dx> why?
19:42 < dav1d> dx: since it only affects the borders
19:42 < dav1d> dx: well having GL_CLAMP for terrain is completly useless
19:42 < dav1d> dx: (terrain textures), that's the reason it shouldn't exist in the first place
19:43 < dx> (at this point we should check what it is used for)
19:43 < dav1d> secondly, setting clamp:false for a texture which requires it, is also stuipid
19:43 < dav1d> dx: e.g. shadows under animals
19:44 < dx> this is magnets for me.
19:44 < dav1d> haha
19:45 < dav1d> dx: if you keep your texture coordinates (indices specifing which pixel of the texture) stay in the range of 0 to 1, GL_CLAMP or GL_REPEAT have no impact
19:45 < dx> dav1d: these texture coordinates are specified in the java code, i guess?
19:45 < dx> that's very vague.
19:45 < dav1d> dx: kinda, you remember the old terrain.png?
19:45 < dx> yeah
19:45 < dav1d> dx: I had for every texture the coordinates hardcoded
19:46 < dx> wait wait
19:46 < dav1d> dx: upper left had e.g. (0, 0), (1/16, 0), (1/16, 0), (1/16, 1/16)
19:47 < dx> is there any relationship between "texture coordinates between 0 and 1" and the fact that terrain.png had all the textures in a single image?
19:47 < dav1d> now these are mapped dynamically when loading a texture, the terrain.png is stitched together from many small textures, so you can't hardcode them anylonger
19:47 < dav1d> dx: yes
19:47 < dx> so was terrain.png sent directly to opengl or something?
19:47 < dav1d> dx: ok, let's say our terrain png is 256x256 pixels
19:48 < dav1d> dx: so to acess pixel 128x and 128y you would do it like that: terrain[128][128] right?
19:48 < dx> sounds about right
19:48 < dav1d> dx: now opengl requires you to normalize these: terrain[128/256][128/256]
19:48 < dav1d> that's it
19:48 < dav1d> so terrain[0.5][0.5]
19:48 < dx> ...oh
19:48 < dx> so wait, why would anyone want more than 1 or less than 0?
19:49 < dav1d> dx: rarely the case, sometimes it's easier
19:49 < dav1d> dx: if you don't want to go over 0,1 but your code does, set the parameter to GL_CLAMP
19:49 < dav1d> then gl will clamp every texture coordinate < 0 to 0 and every coordinate > 1 to 1
19:50 < dav1d> for GL_REPEAT only the decimal places are relevant (including 0 and 1)
19:50 < dx> GL_CLAMP is there to avoid the behavior of GL_REPEAT which... would repeat with a wrapping texture?
19:51 < dav1d> dx: GL_CLAMP clamps the texture coordinates to a range between 0 and 1 and GL_REPEAT virtually duplicates the texture to the left, right, top and bottom
19:51 < dav1d> so texture coordinate 1.5 == 0.5 and 2.0 == 1.0
19:51 < dx> so yeah, wrapping
19:52 < dav1d> maybe? don't know if that is the correct english term, but might be
19:52 < dx> so the textures that needed GL_CLAMP just couldn't be inside the old terrain.png
19:52 < dav1d> dx: http://wiki.delphigl.com/images/6/63/S_clamp_t_clamp.jpg http://wiki.delphigl.com/images/6/60/S_repeat_t_repeat.jpg
19:53 < dav1d> dx: correct, if you really want to apply GL_CLAMP
19:53 < dav1d> this complicates the code a whole lot (I wouldn't even know how to implement it so that it makes at least a little sense) and is well useless
19:53 < dav1d> dx: first picture has GL_CLAMP set for X and Y direction, the 2nd GL_REPEAT for both
19:54 < dx> yeah, those pics made it pretty obvious
19:54 < dx> i wouldn't have imagined that something like this could have such implications in the rendering
19:55 < dav1d> if you're interested in that: http://www.arcsynthesis.org/gltut/Texturing/Texturing.html
19:55 < dav1d> with a few code snippets here and there, you can ignore them
19:56 < dav1d> just skip where he goes into code-details
19:56 < dx> sorry, i can't read this page
19:56 < dav1d> ok?^^
19:56 < dx> it has default font as "calibri" and since i've installed it it has fucked up rendering which i haven't figured out how to fix :(
19:56 < dav1d> haha
19:56 < dx> http://dump.dequis.org/_tU8I.png it looks really awful ;_;
19:57 < dx> those "ti"
19:57 < dx> i have no idea why that happens
19:57 < dav1d> dx: http://vp.dav1d.de/img/RGKD0 :D
19:57 < dx> dav1d: do you even have win7/vista fonts installed?
19:58 < dav1d> dx: no, I don't think so
19:58 < dx> i think i'll just get rid of that font pack
19:58 < dav1d> well, maybe they came with wine
19:58 < dav1d> but I don't think so, I had a real font mess once, somehow I "fixed" it, at least it now everything looks quite ok ...
19:58 < dav1d> → I don't touch my fonts!
19:59 < dav1d> (ever again)
19:59 < dx> all my fonts work fine, except the ones i've modified/installed in the last three months or so - all of those look awful
20:00 < dx> i have no idea where to ask for help about this issue either
20:00 < dav1d> dx: #archlinux
20:00 < dx> dav1d: ha ha funny guy
20:01 < dx> that channel has so much spam that any non-trivial question will always go unanswered
20:01 < dav1d> I tend to get great advices from there, if you ignore the few dickheads
20:01 < dav1d> dx: naa
20:01 < dx> i guess it's a matter of luck
20:01 < dx> it's a huge channel
20:01 < dav1d> yeah
20:02 < dav1d> I always found someone helping me so far :)
20:02 < dav1d> lucky me, I guess
20:02 < dx> i'll give it a try again now then
20:10 < dav1d> meh, now back to math
20:10 < dx> have fun
20:11 < dav1d> ha thanks...
20:13 < dx> dav1d: admire how the offtopic continues on #archlinux and the unanswered questions start getting lost up there
20:14 < dx> this is why i'd rather ask in specific channels with almost no activity
20:17 < dx> sometimes i really wonder what's more effective, to try to write the whole issue in a single message that's nearly 400 chars long, or to leave out most details and at least hope that someone asks me a question that would be redundant otherwise
20:17 < dav1d> dx: the latter
20:18 < dx> dav1d: ..but why?
20:18 < dav1d> you'll get yelled at at first, but later on, meh I yelled at that guy isn't that trivial, let's help him
20:18 < dx> sounds good :D
20:18 < dav1d> others will start helping you because you dominate the channel with your problem
20:19 < dav1d> (my experience/explanation)
20:19 < dx> ha ha good luck dominating #archlinux
20:19 < dav1d> ^^
20:19 < dx> i always want to be "the guy who did as much homework as possible before asking", but evidently people go tl;dr
20:20 < dav1d> dx: yeah :(
20:20 < dav1d> #archlinux is often my last resort
20:20 < dav1d> and when I ask there I have quite some information gathered up
20:20 < dx> a stack exchange site might be a good option for this kind of question, too
20:21 < dx> i asked only one question ever in there, http://stackoverflow.com/questions/16874043/bash-command-substitution-forcing-process-to-foreground
20:21 < dx> after failing to get answers in most irc channels, someone who knew how to answer it appeared
20:23 < dav1d> ha SO!
20:23 < dav1d> I think I put a 500 reputation bounty on a question once
20:23 < dx> how did that go?
20:23 < dav1d> the one answering was me ... 48 hours later with no sleep
20:24 < dav1d> I forgot a matrix.transpose() :(
20:24 < dx> :(
20:25 < dav1d> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/12538361/frustum-culling-implementation
20:25 < dav1d> even 5 days later :(
20:25 < dav1d> and I did research that problem I bet at least 5 days before asking on SO :(
20:26 < dav1d> dx: haha thanks for the upvote^^
20:27 < dx> :3
20:29 < dx> damn, 3pm already
20:30 < dx> just saw a mention of google reader in dinnerbro's twitter feed... i was supposed to write a script to export the shared items of all my friends but i procrastinated it until today, when it dies
--- Day changed lun. juil. 01 2013
05:02 <+md_5> Download job 'Version & Libraries' started (8 threads, 1 files)
05:03 <+md_5> good jerb mojang
12:29 <+md_5>     } else if (((paramob.al().equals("Dinnerbone")) || (paramob.al().equals("Grumm"))) && (
12:29 <+md_5>       (!(paramob instanceof tz)) || (!((tz)paramob).bG()))) {
12:29 <+md_5>       GL11.glTranslatef(0.0F, paramob.P + 0.1F, 0.0F);
12:29 <+md_5>       GL11.glRotatef(180.0F, 0.0F, 0.0F, 1.0F);'
12:29 <+md_5> I dont getit
12:29 <+md_5> tz is the class for player
12:29 <+md_5> and bG() checks if a cape is hidden
12:29 <+md_5> but parammob is the thing that is name tagged
12:29 <+md_5> oooh
12:29 <+md_5> I guess you can nametag other stuff, just not in vanilla
12:30 < Dinnerbone> md_5: you can nametag any mob...
12:30 < Dinnerbone> In vanilla
12:30 <+md_5> yeah
12:30 <+md_5> but whats with the second condition
12:30 <+md_5> c(!(paramob instanceof tz)) || (!((tz)paramob).bG()
12:30 < dav1d> so Db and grum get special nametags?^^
12:30 < Dinnerbone> If it's a player, check if the cape is on
12:31 <+md_5> you cant name a player in vanilla :(
12:31 < dav1d> :(
12:31 < dav1d> would be funny :)
12:31 <+md_5> lets make a plugin!
12:31 <+md_5> ohwait bukkit wont give us an api for 5 years
12:31 < dav1d> well that won't work
12:31 < dav1d> the skin would change, wouldn't it?
12:51 < dx> jeb mentioned 1.6.2
12:51 < dx> it's our opportunity guys
12:52 < dx> we can have packet length headers this time
12:52 < dav1d>  I have the best idea ever
12:52 < dav1d> remove the packet id
12:52 < dav1d> replace it with a length header, find the correct header by guessing
12:52 < dav1d> s/header/packet/
12:52 < dx> loling
12:53 < dx> there's a few simple packets that look exactly the same though
12:54 < dx> dav1d: what happened with the UTF-8 change anyway?
12:55 < dav1d> no idea
12:55 < dav1d> someday, maybe
12:55 < dx> lol
12:55 < dx> that's something we can actually and realistically manage to get merged
12:55 < dx> maybe.
12:56 < dav1d> for big servers that would also quite reduce the bandwith, especially with json
12:56 < dx> yeah
12:56 < dav1d> 50% less in average I'd assume
12:56 < dav1d> at least for europe/us
12:56 < dx> i stopped reading the logs the last time we talked about it because some people had drunk weird stuff and were suggesting UTF-32 instead
12:58 < Calinou> <dx> we can have packet length headers this time
12:58 < Calinou> lol
12:58 < dx> :3
13:06 < dav1d> well, the only benefit of packetlength headers would be, you don't have to implement the complete protocol
13:06 < dav1d> and you can verify your networking code
13:06 < dav1d> but that's about it?
13:07 < dx> also much more lightweight proxies that can handle more traffic
13:07 < dx> and trivial support of multiple protocol versions for those
13:26 < Grum> < dx> we can have packet length headers this time <-- but who would listen to this channel anymore? ... oh wait....
13:27 < dx> hah what
13:28 < dx> nice to see you around
13:28  * Grum idles some more.
13:29 < dx> see you later :3
13:29 < Grum> TkTech: dont keep that ban on my account btw. do whatever you want
13:29 <+md_5> there is no ban o.O
13:29 < dx> ...did i miss something?
13:29 <+md_5> also
13:29 <+md_5> why is sir gone again
13:29 <+md_5> ._.
13:29  * md_5 finds logs
13:29 < Grum> also, we'll never add packet-length-prefixes in this major protocol version; just so you know; you can stop asking/demanding/begging
13:30 <+md_5> thats what you said about the ping stuff :3
13:30 < dx> Grum: "major protocol version"?
13:30 < Grum> yes, and you said it was a '9 line fix'
13:30 < Grum> look how wrong we both were.
13:30 < dx> you mean the protocol versions covered by minecraft 1.6?
13:30 < Grum> i know i'm right about this one though.
13:31 < Grum> dx: until we majorly overhaul the protocol (look at the end of my todolist) we wont change it.
13:32 < Grum> (and 'it' being the 'adding of length-prefix to packets)
13:32 <+md_5> Grum at the same time switch to NIO for networking :3
13:32 < dx> Grum: i assume this todolist will be complete before the release of 1.7
13:32 < dx> Grum: so we're going to start bothering you again by that time
13:33 < Grum> md_5: maybe
13:33 < Grum> dx: it wont be
13:33 < dx> Grum: shhhh
13:33 < dx> Grum: it will
13:33 < dx> Grum: have some faith in yourself
13:33 < Grum> nope. it wont
13:33 <+md_5> Grum dont worry, its not 10 lines
13:33 < Grum> this todolist is multiple years worth of work :)
13:33 <+md_5> its about 15000
13:33 <+md_5> *1500
13:34 < Grum> I'm actually not sure what a 'sane' way of doing the protocol is
13:34 < Grum> or rather the network implementation
13:34 < Grum> i've used netty, its nice
13:34 <+md_5> https://github.com/EcoCityCraft/Spigot/blob/master/CraftBukkit-Patches/0025-Netty.patch
13:34 <+md_5> yah
13:34 <+md_5> although been using netty 4 for all my stuff
13:34 <+md_5> means a lot of yelling to the devs
13:35 <+md_5> Even CR7 (20th or so release of netty4) has at least one bug I need fixed, 
13:36 < Grum> i'm not really looking forward implementing the encryption using netty
13:37 < Grum> also the whole different queues etc, we should just get rid of that BS
13:52 <+md_5> Grum Ive already implemented the encryption surprisingly simple and Ive perfected it over the months
13:52 <+md_5> still need to pull request it to them
13:54 < Grum> md_5: the way we're doing the round-cycling with packets to confirm state
13:54 < Grum> i do not like that :/
14:03 <+md_5> and all the mojang infrastructure is brning
14:03 <+md_5> burning
14:03 <+md_5> good job
14:07 < Grum> md_5: yeah we broke ourselves hehe
14:07 < Grum> seems the loadbalancers @ amazon are screaming
14:08 <+md_5> more $$$ of EC2 plz
16:55 <+sadimusi> does anybody have an idea what the first byte of the new plugin message sent after the server list ping is used for?
16:55 <+sadimusi> so far I only encountered the value 49
16:59 <+sadimusi> o.O it looks like the client only sends the plugin message and the magic (or shrödinger) byte the first time you click on "Multiplayer"
17:00 <+sadimusi> refreshing the list only sends the 0xfe and the server happily replies
17:00 <+sadimusi> Dinnerbone: ^
17:01 <+sadimusi> and the server complains with "[SEVERE] Reached end of stream for /127.0.0.1"
17:03 <+sadimusi> (never mind about the byte, it was of course the protocol version and I printed it out in hex)
17:22 <+sadimusi> maybe there's something wrong with my proxy
17:22 <+sadimusi> but I'm pretty sure the server gets a NullPointerException when an older client pings it
17:22 <+sadimusi> i.e. lower protocol version in the plugin message
17:23 <+sadimusi> higher values on the other hand are ok
17:25 < dx> odd
17:26 < dx> you must be doing something wrong, since getting errors in older servers was the reason grum scrapped the original extended 0xfe and used plugin messages instead
17:26 < dx> oh wait - older client to new server?
17:26 <+sadimusi> well, older servers won't send the plugin message at all
17:26 <+sadimusi> *lient
17:26 <+sadimusi> +c
17:26 < dx> oh, so it's an issue that doesn't exist yet
17:26 <+sadimusi> yes
17:26 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 8 commits to master [+11/-0/±49] http://git.io/f_Eo1w
17:26 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 28052d4 - Update protocol version, add new blocks/items
17:27 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn e187742 - In-progress protocol updates
17:27 < dx> got it
17:27 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn b43d7dc - Added another changed packet
17:27 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 78cff86 - Add new packets
17:27 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn ff1eac9 - Merge master into snapshot
17:27 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 5580ab9 - Basic 1.6 support
17:27 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 6eab3ef - Fixed walking/flying speed for 1.6, fixed another changed packet
17:27 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 3a3ac91 - Update README
17:27 <+sadimusi> my proxy probably just didn't pick up on further plugin messages, I assume they are sent every time you click on refresh
17:28 <+sadimusi> because if you don't send it you get an old-style reply
17:28 <+sadimusi> i.e motd§0§20
17:30 <+sadimusi> and the protocol byte is of course signed, so the highest thing you can send is 127
17:31 < dx> yep. that's going to be fun
17:34 < dx> some day i should read up on signedness in java, what i've seen so far doesn't make much sense.
17:35 <+sadimusi> why? everything is signed, period.
17:35 < Calinou> sadimusi: suddenly: negative versions
17:36 < Calinou> or just a reset :P
17:36 < dx> sadimusi: i heard that & 0xFF turns it into 'unsigned'
17:36 < dx> and that's where it stops making sense
17:37 <+sadimusi> you can get the unsigned value of a byte this way, yes
17:37 <+sadimusi> but you have to store it in an int
17:37 < dx> oh
17:39 < dx> is it something like the bitwise operators always working with unsigned? because doing & 0xFF over an eight bit number sounds like a NOOP to me
17:40 <+sadimusi> I'm not quite sure how it works since the VM handles bytes as ints anyway
17:43 < Yoshi2> shouldn't the only difference between signed and unsigned lie in how they are interpreted?
17:45 < dx> that would make sense in a lower level language
17:45 < dx> but it seems you can't just tell java to 'interpret this as unsigned', you have to have some int in the middle
18:17 < Grum> dx: there is some issue with the 1.6 server reading the requests, it will send the 1.3 one back
18:17 < Grum> already fixed; deployed when we update
18:17 < dx> Grum: woo!
18:17 < dx> also sadimusi ^
18:17 < Grum> again, shows even more how annoying it is to fix the 'super small issue' in a good way ;)
19:31 < ellisvlad> Hey everyone ;)
19:33 < Yoshi2> good day, ellisvlad 
19:35 < ellisvlad> Hai Yoshi ;) Anyone tried to play around with the new 1.6 update yet? :P
19:38 < ellisvlad> I'm trying, but so much has changed! :P
19:38 < ellisvlad> Like Chat messages 0.o
19:38 < Yoshi2> the 1.6 update is out already? Whew, time flies by fast when I don't pay attention to it
19:38 < ellisvlad> Yeah, it came out today ;)
19:38 < dexter0> Craft.Net has 1.6 protocol support iirc.
19:39 < ellisvlad> you will need the new launcher
19:39 < SinZ> people have calculated that the PluginAPI will be released in 1.9
19:39 < SinZ> as 1.3 changed how singleplayer completelly worked
19:40 < SinZ> 1.6 is the new launcher
19:42 < ellisvlad> aha, go the chat working ;)
19:42 < ellisvlad> *got
19:43 < ellisvlad> You need to send this string now, {{"text":"<ellisvlad> Hello World"}}
19:43 < ellisvlad> :/
19:44 < Grum> ohnoes, bytes
19:44 < iBotPeaches> I wonder how long we can still use the old chat w/ new json
19:45 < ellisvlad> lol
19:46 < ellisvlad> grr.. nvm... didn't work -.-
19:47 < Grum> iBotPeaches: until we break it ;)
19:47 < ellisvlad> oh nvm got it
19:47 < ellisvlad> {"text":"<ellisvlad> Hello World"}
19:47 < ellisvlad> sinlge set of curly braces
19:49 < iBotPeaches> It was easy to strap the old chat into the new json packet, which worked to get a working 1.6 update out, now can rest and work on full json integration
19:49 < iBotPeaches> using all the pretty bold, color, translate, using, etc
19:51 < ellisvlad> :P
19:55 < Grum> for now ;)
19:57 < Yoshi2> I do hope that the "now" will last for a while :)
19:58 < iBotPeaches> 1.6.x comes out, its removed :o
19:59 < iBotPeaches> would be my luck :)
20:01 < ellisvlad> http://puu.sh/3sHsz.jpg ;)
20:09 < Grum> like making the chat work is that hard lol :P
20:11 < Drainedsoul> I'd think making things work would be pretty easy when you're being paid and don't have to reverse engineer.
20:12 < ellisvlad> :P
20:15 < ellisvlad> ugh, now the player movement speed x.x
20:15 < ellisvlad> The player goes insainly fast xD
20:15 < ellisvlad> Hmm, using floats now..
20:24 < ellisvlad> ugh... my 0xCA Player Abilities packet seems to do nothing :/
20:24 < ellisvlad> The flags are set and got correctly, but the speeds are just wrong -.-
20:33 < iBotPeaches> ellisvlad: Loop the entity_count, reading string then float
20:33 < iBotPeaches> s/entity_count/properties_count in 0x2c
20:42 < ellisvlad> Hmm, The annoying thing is that when I set the fly and walk speeds, the player goes really fast (0.6 blocks per step, instead of 0.25) but if the client starts flying, the server gets sent the walk and fly speeds, which come as what I set them -.-
20:44 < ellisvlad> what is even stranger, is that the FOV changes as I send lower walk and fly speeds, but the player stll moves just as fast
20:51 < Grum> Drainedsoul: except that we documented it and told people about it some weeks ago
20:55 < ellisvlad2> wait, what?!
20:55 < ellisvlad2> can I have a link please? ;)
20:56 < Grum> yeah sure, go look in dinnerbones twitter history
20:56 < Drainedsoul> https://gist.github.com/Dinnerbone/5631634
20:57 < iBotPeaches> I wonder if this new system supports newlines, without manually sending new packets for each newline
20:57 < Drainedsoul> the old system did
20:58 < Drainedsoul> ...
20:58 < iBotPeaches> hm, then I was doing something wrong on the old system
20:58 < Drainedsoul> http://i.imgur.com/T75BUHj.png that's all one packet
20:58 < iBotPeaches> are you sending \n ?
20:59 < Drainedsoul> I'm just using my special string Newline, I think it's CRLF
20:59 < Drainedsoul> when it implicitly converts itself to a string
20:59 < Drainedsoul> I'll check sec
20:59 < Drainedsoul> oh no apparently it's just LF
21:00 < iBotPeaches> I'll give it a shot tonight, thanks for the info
21:00 < Drainedsoul> netime
21:01 < Yoshi2> does the server send one or two packets for when a player writes a very long message?
21:02 < Drainedsoul> what do you mean "very long"
21:02 < ellisvlad2> It can all be one packet
21:02 < Yoshi2> so long, that it is broken into two lines
21:02 < ellisvlad2> Up to 32767 characters xD
21:03 < ellisvlad2> but it's easier just to use \n
21:03 < Drainedsoul> there's no race conditions with newline either
21:03 < Yoshi2> I'm happy if it does not send two packets for long player messages
21:04 < ellisvlad2> player messages are a slightly different story
21:04 < Yoshi2> that was always a pain on my old bot which accepted chat commands
21:04 < ellisvlad2> Client -> server is still limited to 200 chars or somthing
21:04 < Drainedsoul> is that limit client or server imposed?
21:05 < ellisvlad2> Server -> Client is unlimited (for most purposes xD)
21:05 < ellisvlad2> Client
21:05 < Drainedsoul> yeah so it's not really limited
21:05 < ellisvlad2> And vanilla Server
21:05 < Drainedsoul> : P
21:05 < Drainedsoul> ah okay
21:05 < iBotPeaches> server -> client has no limit ive reached
21:05 < ellisvlad2> 32767 ;)
21:05 < Drainedsoul> in a sane world it'd be 65535 :(
21:05 < iBotPeaches> so size of short :)
21:05 < ellisvlad2> xD
21:06 < ellisvlad2> signing where pointless ftw
21:06 < Drainedsoul> life wouldn't be fun without if (len<0)
21:06 < Yoshi2> got to love java for that
21:06 < ellisvlad2> although, even with a signed short, you will never reach that huge number :P
21:06 < whatupdave> hey does anyone have the new 0xFE packet?
21:06 < Drainedsoul> there's a now 0xFE packet?
21:07 < ellisvlad2> yeah I got it, kinda
21:07 < whatupdave> yeh, it includes the server address in it. AWESOME
21:07 < Drainedsoul> what do you mean "address"?
21:07 < iBotPeaches> ah was that in the 1.6.1 update?
21:07 < ellisvlad2> http://b.wiki.vg/1.6...1.6.1
21:08 < whatupdave> oh awesome, thanks ellisvlad 
21:08 < ellisvlad> np
21:09 < Drainedsoul> writeString(MC|PingHost); <== what is this
21:10 < ellisvlad> I'm not entirly sure
21:10 < Drainedsoul> like are "MC" and "PingHost" constants and they're being OR'd together, or did someone forget to put quotes around a string?
21:10 < whatupdave> it's a straight up string
21:10 < ellisvlad> I keep just getting 157.0..0.0..0 in my packet dump
21:10 < whatupdave> it appears just like that in there
21:11 < whatupdave> i'm guessing it acts like a user-agent
21:14 < ellisvlad> Oh wow, I'm reading from the wrong buffer...
21:14 < Drainedsoul> wut
21:14 < ellisvlad> p->writebuf->readbyte() was meant to be p->readbuf->readbyte()
21:14 < Drainedsoul> : |
21:14 < ellisvlad> no wonder I was getting random-ish results xD
21:14 < Drainedsoul> you don't
21:15 < Drainedsoul> abstract the protocol parsing...
21:15 < Drainedsoul> ?
21:15 < ellisvlad> "abstract the protocol parsing", What do you mean? :P
21:16 < Drainedsoul> I mean use some facility to abstract the protocol away from you
21:16 < Drainedsoul> I use a "Packet" class
21:16 < Drainedsoul> with some metaprograms
21:16 < Drainedsoul> and type erasure
21:18 < Grum> <Drainedsoul> like are "MC" and "PingHost" constants and they're being OR'd together, or did someone forget to put quotes around a string? <-- quotes
21:18 < ellisvlad> Oh no, I do :P I'm just doing this so I can see what the ping packet says :P
21:19 < Drainedsoul> thanks, that clears that up at least
21:20 < ellisvlad> http://puu.sh/3sKPu.png :P
21:22 < Drainedsoul> C?
21:22 < Grum> Drainedsoul: for backwards compat we 'fake' a 'custom payload packet' around the extra data
21:22 < Grum> else ancient servers will terminate the connection before you get a reply after reading a 'bad packet id'
21:23 < ellisvlad> Drainedsoul: c++
21:23 < Drainedsoul> ah okay, that would make sense
21:24 < Drainedsoul> but you're using printf not std::cout!
21:28 < ellisvlad> :P
21:28 < ellisvlad> To whom it may concern: http://puu.sh/3sLaY.png (Sorry it is a little ugly on the eyes)
21:29 < Drainedsoul> this is what the client sends correct?
21:29 < ellisvlad> ugh, my internet likes to be dodgy -.-
21:29 < Drainedsoul> this is what the client sends correct?
21:30 < ellisvlad> Yeah Client->Server
21:30 < ellisvlad> Server->Client is the same as it was
21:31 < Drainedsoul> the last ~half of the packet, what's it a representation of, and how does it represent that thing
21:32 < ellisvlad> Opps I filtered a little too much http://puu.sh/3sLmk.png
21:33 < ellisvlad> So, using http://b.wiki.vg/1.6...1.6.1#packets
21:33 < ellisvlad> "MC|PingHost" is the user agent of minecraft
21:33 < ellisvlad> b is the ip of the server, according to the client
21:34 < ellisvlad> That's quite cool
21:34 < Drainedsoul> wait after host, they write a short, and then they write a string of bytes
21:35 < Drainedsoul> oh nvm
21:35 < ellisvlad> So using this, we could now, in theory, code many virtual servers into one very easily
21:36 < ellisvlad> Just by checking which IP/hostname the client thinks they are connecting to
21:36 < Drainedsoul> what does the 0x0E mean?
21:36 < Drainedsoul> before the IP starts
21:36 <+sadimusi> protocol version
21:36 <+sadimusi> wait, no
21:36 < ellisvlad> :P
21:36 <+sadimusi> that's probably the length of the string
21:36 < ellisvlad> yeah
21:36 <+sadimusi> the protocol version should be 0x34
21:37 < ellisvlad> it sends the length of b twice?
21:37 < Drainedsoul> what is the 0x49 for then?
21:37 < ellisvlad> 1
21:37 < ellisvlad> lol
21:37 <+sadimusi> it's a regular plugin message packet
21:37 < ellisvlad> the start of the IP
21:38 < Drainedsoul> ah okay
21:38 < Grum> it sends: FE, 01 (backward compat part); 0xFA String:"MC|PingHost" ShortPayloadSize, Byte:protocolVersion, String:"Host", int:port
21:38 <+sadimusi> I currently build it like this in my ping script: http://pastie.org/8100945
21:39 < Grum> so a server who has no idea abou the extra part, will read the 0xFA packet without problems
21:39 <+sadimusi> but I guess I'll remove it again when the 1.3 response is fixed
21:39 < Grum> oh that is fixed
21:39 < Grum> just not pushed live
21:40 < Drainedsoul> okay that seems pretty straightforward, thanks
21:41 <+sadimusi> there are already 591 servers on 1.6.1 on my list, so I have to wait until that drops to 0 before changing anything
21:41 < whatupdave> thanks Grum! Stoked this got added to the protocol
21:41 < Drainedsoul> does it always send the IP, or is it however the client entered the server on the list?
21:42 < whatupdave> Drainedsoul it's the address the client added to the server list
21:42 < ellisvlad> can be a hostname
21:42 < Drainedsoul> yeah that's super useful
21:42 < Drainedsoul> it's like HTTP all over again ;)
21:42 < ellisvlad> lol
21:43 < whatupdave> yep, this is going to make the experience at Minefold a lot better
21:44 < ellisvlad> :P
21:45 < ellisvlad> :( still can't get the player speeds right..
21:46 <+sadimusi> I still don't get why anybody would use this for virtual hosting over a simple SRV record
21:46 < ellisvlad> lol
21:46 < ellisvlad> SRV can take a few mins to update xD
21:47 <+sadimusi> not necessarily
21:48 < ellisvlad> My DNS always takes forever, even when I flush it :P
21:49 <+sadimusi> well, if this is really an issue for somebody I guess virtual hosting is an option
21:49 <+sadimusi> but it's just so much more work
21:49 < ellisvlad> :P
21:50 <+sadimusi> plus it uses some of your precious resources
21:50 < ellisvlad> Bungee could make a thing of it
21:51 < ellisvlad> ..idk :P just throwing random ideas out there
21:51 <+sadimusi> using bungee only for virtual hosting wouldn't make much sense, but maybe you could directly connect to certain servers this way
21:51 < whatupdave> what you really want is a way of redirecting the client, so bungee could send a packet to the client to say reconnect to this host
21:52 < whatupdave> then bungee wouldn't have to proxy the connection
21:52 < ellisvlad> yeah
21:52 <+sadimusi> if you don't want to proxy, just use DNS
21:52 < ellisvlad> but to merge servers with portals or chat commands is a nice feature
21:53 < ellisvlad> lol, anyone else have a minecraft launcher with this many errors yet? http://puu.sh/3sMbH.png :P
21:54 <+sadimusi> Grum: did you also fix the nullpointerexception you get when sending a protocol version < 73?
21:54 < Grum> ?
21:55 <+sadimusi> it happens when the client sends a protocol version < 73 in the 0xfa packet
22:00 < Grum> sadimusi: no idea
22:00 < Grum> also dont care
22:00 < Grum> no client does that
22:01 <+sadimusi> it might become a problem when 1.6.2 comes out
22:25 < Grum> sadimusi: not sure how it would send a lower version? :D
22:26 <+sadimusi> Grum: well, I assume the error would then occur if someone sends a version < 74
22:26 <+sadimusi> which a 1.6.1 client would do
22:26 <+sadimusi> I could be wrong of course, maybe just try it out before shipping 1.6.2
22:54 < ffmdr> does anyone know the origin of map_client.txt?
22:57 < ffmdr> vanilla mentions it in crash reports and it is referred to in mcp/forge as proguard map file(not retroguard one used by mcp)
22:57 < Krenair> google proguard
22:57 < ffmdr> ...
22:58 < ffmdr> I am not asking about proguard
22:58 < ffmdr> it looks like mcp/forge devs get original mojang obf mappings after minecraft releases
22:59 < ffmdr> and are allowed to use them to some extent
22:59 < brainiac94> indeed
23:00 < ffmdr> are you confirming that it looks like that or confirming that they receive the mappings?
23:01 < brainiac94> i'm pretty sure they do get the mappings
23:02 < ffmdr> I am pretty sure that Searge on livestream is working with mojang mappings and then removes package names
23:02 < Krenair> I've heard that MCP gets the obfuscator mappings, yeah..
23:03 < Krenair> According to @SeargeDP: @D!nnerbone knows that changes in the obfuscation are usually no big problem for us.
23:03 < ffmdr> I readed that tweet as: are usually big problem for us
23:03 < ffmdr> fail
23:04 < ffmdr> was removing package names requirement by Mojang to not make source code too pretty?
23:04 < ffmdr> Forge does have its own package mappings but what's the point then o.O
23:07 < ffmdr> https://github.com/MinecraftForge/FML/blob/master/update_packages.py#L27
23:07 < ffmdr> and https://github.com/MinecraftForge/FML/blob/master/update_packages.py#L89
23:09 < brainiac94> has anyone looked at the new packets in the protocol?
23:10 < ffmdr> spout have updated to 1.6, some of new packets have proper names
23:10 < ffmdr> while other have fields named unknown
23:10 < brainiac94> i'm just asking because the spec of 0x2c in the burger vitrine is confusing
23:11 < brainiac94> is it just transmitting a Map<String, Double> ?
23:11 < ffmdr> lemme look
23:11 < brainiac94> http://b.wiki.vg/1.6.1...1.5.2#packets:0x2c
23:12 < ffmdr> looks like that one isn't in spout yet
23:13 < ffmdr> let's look at mcp
23:13 < ffmdr> it is named PacketUpdateAttributes and it transmitting a collection
23:15 < ffmdr> collection of 'AttributeInstance's...let me look deeper
23:15 < brainiac94> how does it have getKey() and getValue()?
23:16 < ffmdr> first int in packet could be entity id
23:16 < ffmdr> then goes string => double hashmap
23:17 < brainiac94> that's what i thought. I'll just try and see whether it gives me any useful information
23:17 < brainiac94> thanks very much!
23:17 < ffmdr> and here is 0x1b
23:17 < ffmdr> https://github.com/Vanilla/Vanilla/blob/631322cfa15a033482dd575964f1d95ccd2b3836/src/main/java/org/spout/vanilla/protocol/codec/entity/SteerVehicleCodec.java
23:19 < brainiac94> thank you
23:21 < ffmdr> health is not float, other changes are pretty clear
23:21 < ffmdr> now float*
23:22 < ffmdr> confirmed 0x2c int is entity id
23:24 <+sadimusi> uhm... 0x2c has been documented in the wiki for quite some time now http://wiki.vg/Pre-release_protocol#Entity_Properties_.280x2C.29
23:24 < brainiac94> .. I completely forgot to check that.
23:24 < brainiac94> thank you
23:25 < ffmdr> sadimusi: oh
23:26 < ffmdr> sadimusi: it should now go to main protocol page
23:32 < ffmdr> just found READ_ME_I_AM_VERY_IMPORTANT file from Dinnerb0ne :D
23:33 < Krenair> Are you guys updating the Protocol page?
23:33 < Krenair> if not I will
23:36 < ffmdr> is minecraft using scala?
23:37 < ffmdr> or is it just scala support in mcp
23:37 < ffmdr> for mods
23:38 < Krenair> Apparently LexManos added Scala support in MCP so people can make Forge mods with it or something
23:38 < ffmdr> ah
23:38 < Krenair> So yeah now you get '"scalac" is not found on the PATH.  Scala files will not be recompiled' every time you run a script
23:39 < ffmdr> FML .gitignore: map_client.txt
23:39 < ffmdr> heh
23:49 < Krenair> ffmdr, where was that?
23:51 < ffmdr> Krenair: which gitignore was that?
23:51 < Krenair> yes. from what repo?
23:51 < ffmdr> forge mod loader
--- Day changed mar. juil. 02 2013
00:06 < Krenair> :/
00:06 < Krenair> Protocol History page doesn't include 1.5 releases
00:12 < ffmdr> You are not allowed to: Release the decompiled source code of Minecraft in any way.
00:12 < ffmdr> there are 383 github repos with minecraft source code
00:12 < ffmdr> lololo
00:12 < ffmdr> *no one cares*
00:33 < brainiac94> .. I just found out about the new chat formatting
00:33 < brainiac94> this is going to be interesting for my bot
00:35 < ffmdr> {text: blabla}
00:36 < brainiac94> is it just that for general messages?
00:37 < ffmdr> I think yes, dunno about colors
00:37 < ffmdr> https://github.com/ElasticPortalSuite/BungeeCord/blob/1296783d9bd9ce13dfcd665935e7c28f8bf43ba1/proxy/src/main/java/net/md_5/bungee/BungeeCord.java#L491
00:37 < ffmdr> (example)
00:38 < brainiac94> so what if i send formatted text - i've read that they ditched § altogether, so is it going to be an array of formatted text objects?
00:40 < ffmdr> I have no idea about colors, I haven't seen them impl anywhere
00:41 < Drainedsoul> is there any kind of complete documentation on the chat formatting/JSON/etc.?  Or just the gist that Dinnerbone threw up?
00:41 < brainiac94> i havent seen one
00:42 < Drainedsoul> okay, would be nice to know which strings are supported for "color", and whether "bold" is supported, etc.
00:43 < ffmdr> oh found dinnerb0ne gist about colors
00:43 < ffmdr> https://gist.github.com/Dinnerbone/5631634
00:44 < ffmdr> oh you can now throw translations into chat
00:44 < ffmdr> that's nice
00:44 < Drainedsoul> this is the gist I was just looking at, it doesn't give a complete enumeration of supported colors
00:46 < ffmdr> it is in EnumChatFormatting class
00:46 < ffmdr> hmm weird there is code in it for reading  old chat style
00:50 < Drainedsoul> where can I see this EnumChatFormatting class
00:50 < ffmdr> http://pastebin.com/Nma1t4HB
00:50 < ffmdr> I guess it maps names to enum by replacing _ with space
00:50 < ffmdr> or just with _
00:52 < Drainedsoul> so we can probably stick like "bold", "italic", "strikethrough", etc. as JSON properties?
00:52 < Drainedsoul> will have to test.
00:52 < ffmdr> yeah, also test "dark blue" or "dark_blue"
00:53 < Drainedsoul> yeah I'll have to convert my stack-based formatting over to generating JSON instead of generating section sign codes
01:07 < ffmdr> yay, just finished my script which adds package names to MCP
01:07 < ffmdr> it was a pain
01:09 < brainiac94> ffmdr, the pastebin URL is invalid...
01:10 < ffmdr> brainiac94, I set it to 10 minutes
01:10 < brainiac94> nevermind then
01:11 < nopresnik> :O MC protocol changed. Pinging the version returns motd
01:14 < ffmdr> nopresnik: :0
01:15 < nopresnik> :O
01:24 < ffmdr> does anyone know what's bukkit status?
01:28 < nopresnik> ffmdr, yep. They are not moving
01:29 < ffmdr> you mean not doing anything?
01:31 < nopresnik> ffmdr, They will, but they aren't just yet
02:09 < brainiac94> is there any documentation on this "Yggdrasil" protocol yet?
02:13 < ffmdr> brainiac94: nope
02:13 < ffmdr> just look at launcher code
02:13 < brainiac94> meh. Thanks
02:16 < brainiac94> wait - does it actually affect the way a client connects to the game server after acquiring a session ID? Currently, my bot manages to connect and receive the 0x01 packet, but then the server says client end-of-streamed
02:17 < brainiac94> Which is odd, because I know for a fact it's the server closing the socket
02:22 < ffmdr> >  wait - does it actually affect the way a client connects to the game server after acquiring a session ID?
02:22 < ffmdr> I guess not
02:22 < ffmdr> so if you are a server you are fine
02:24 < Drainedsoul> whoo
02:25 < ffmdr> btw no more lastlogin stelears
02:25 < ffmdr> *yay*
02:26 < Drainedsoul> wut
02:26 < ffmdr> stealers
02:26 < Drainedsoul> why/how is that
02:26 < ffmdr> http://www.mpgh.net/forum/422-minecraft-tutorials/647873-how-make-last-login-stealer-noobs-visual-basic.html
02:26 < ffmdr> (random example)
02:27 < Drainedsoul> how have they gotten around that?
02:50 <+sadimusi> the only way you could possibly prevent this is by not offering a "keep me logged in" option...
02:55 < ffmdr> nope
02:56 < ffmdr> after logging in with password it receives a token from server and saves it
02:56 < ffmdr> after logging in with token it is invalidated and you receive a new one
03:07 < Drainedsoul> so what if they steal your token and log in before you do?
03:23 < ffmdr> [Ljava.lang.String;@398f573b left the game
03:23 < ffmdr> lol
03:23 < ffmdr> MCP bug?
03:26 < brainiac94> ! isn't that an object identifier?
03:27 < brainiac94> i've had that happen a lot when i was unexperienced and tried to convert a byte[] into a String using .toString()
03:28 < ffmdr> it looks like I screwed up varargs somewhere in translation classes
03:29 < ffmdr> yeah it was that nevermind
03:29 < ffmdr> I had a warning related to varargs when recompiling so I removed it
03:30 < ffmdr> reverted and warning is magically gone too
06:38 < SinZ> Drainedsoul: on the event someone got a copy of your access token, you could simply re-generate it by logging in normally
06:49 < Drainedsoul> I was just getting at the fact that someone running software on your computer to steal your password is -- in my opinion -- being on the other side of the airtight hatchway
06:50 < Drainedsoul> http://blogs.msdn.com/b/oldnewthing/archive/2012/12/07/10375415.aspx <== if you haven't heard that figure of speech before
07:02 <+md_5> Grum 
07:02 <+md_5>    } catch (Throwable throwable) {
07:02 <+md_5>             this.a = 0;
07:02 <+md_5>             this.b = "";
07:02 <+md_5>         }
07:02 <+md_5> why u so catch throwable
07:02 < Grum> because that is what the old code did, i didn't feel like ensuring that all exceptions where of type ioexception
07:10 < gonewest> hello all.  question about the new 1.6.1 server release and the 0xFE server list ping protocol
07:10 < AlphaBlend> Grum: Did you guys name leads in the mojang code LEASHes?
07:10 < AlphaBlend> i'm curious :P
07:10 < Drainedsoul> what about it?
07:11 < AlphaBlend> the unobfuscated bukkit code says LEASH in the NMS Item class
07:11 < AlphaBlend> so i'm curious
07:13 < gonewest> for me anyway, a new server running 1.6.1 is replying to 0xfe 0x01  with the old v1.3 response: [motd, #players, maxplayers]  rather than the newer response including server version and protocol version...  why?
07:14 < AlphaBlend> gonewest: 1.6.2 --> MC-19592 - 1.5.2 clients show server 1.6.1 as 1.3 in Multiplayer screen
07:16 < AlphaBlend> so yes, that got fixed in the next patch
07:19 < gonewest> ah,  thanks.  I didn't see that.
07:31 < Grum> AlphaBlend: yes we renamed the item after it was added (leash != good name)
07:31 < AlphaBlend> oh
07:31 < AlphaBlend> rope? :P
07:48 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-0/±3] http://git.io/mt0DXQ
07:48 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn c54daeb - Added packet events to client
10:55 < ffmdr> yay craftbukkit 1.6 \o/
11:01 < SpaceManiac> aww, the game doesn't respond kindly to being maximized while loading anymore
11:01 < ffmdr> before it was just lagging 
11:01 < ffmdr> what changed?
11:02 < SpaceManiac> game appears entirely in bottom-left corner
11:04 <+md_5> ffmdr spigot 1.6 \o/
11:05 < ffmdr> spigot <3
11:05 < ffmdr> https://github.com/EcoCityCraft/Spigot/commit/6e333e5df4345ab43d98e550e2ee1aed5793560f
11:05 < ffmdr> hahahahahaah
11:05 < ffmdr> nice
11:06 <+md_5> ffmdr I always end up leaving that trace in
11:06 <+md_5> and then the issue is
11:06 <+md_5> when someone disconnects by clicking x on the client
11:06 <+md_5> it gets spammy
11:06 <+md_5> and people come crying
11:09 <+ammar2> md_5: if cause isn't end of stream or other unimportant network errors, print trace?
11:10 < ffmdr> just found lastloginstelear in some 1.6 compatible launcher
11:10 < ffmdr> it even uses UDP
11:11 < ffmdr> no more custom launchers...
11:12 <+md_5> can a mojangsta please tell me about sponges
11:12 <+md_5> werent they meant to be implemented like 8 versions ago
11:12 <+md_5> o.O you can leash *anything*
11:21 < ffmdr> https://gist.github.com/ffmdr/f632db50354c15c151fd - SEEMS LEGIT
11:23 <+md_5> ffmdr I dont even
11:23 < ffmdr> md_5: I nearly used that launcher
11:23 <+md_5> where
11:23 <+md_5> dafaq
11:23 <+md_5> did
11:23 <+md_5> you get it from
11:24 < ffmdr> http://minecraft.zyczu.pl/
11:24 < ffmdr> lol
11:24 <+md_5> ffmdr was the mojang one so sexy it hurt?
11:25 < ffmdr> yeah maybe a little
11:25 < ffmdr> just found author's email/name/home address, gonna make his life a pain now
11:26 < ffmdr> does anyone checked if MagicLauncher is clear? it was made by optifine author iirc but is obf'd and such
11:28 <+md_5> ffmdr does it support 1.6?
11:28 < ffmdr> yeah
11:28 <+md_5> I use SKMCLauncher, no 1.6 yet though
11:28 < ffmdr> I use magic launcher generally
11:28 < ffmdr> for modding
11:28 <+md_5> guise I'm doing 1.6 update for wiki
11:28 < ffmdr> it shows conflicts nicely and stuff
11:28 <+md_5> plz dont touch page till I iz done
11:28  * edk makes 100 whitespace edits
11:37 <+md_5> done
11:46 < ffmdr> will minecraft run from chroot or something like that?
11:46 < nopresnik> Anyone know how to fix "name has protected access in EntityHuman" when trying to get "name" from final EntityPlayer entityplayer = ((CraftPlayer) player).getHandle();??
11:47 < ffmdr> nopresnik: it is protected for a reason
11:47 < nopresnik> ffmdr, only since 1.6
11:47 < ffmdr> just use player.getName() ?
11:47 < nopresnik> Cant
11:47 < ffmdr> try to get player by its entity?
11:48 < nopresnik> have a look, im trying to update this
11:48 < nopresnik> https://github.com/NerdNu/ModMode/blob/master/src/nu/nerd/modmode/ModMode.java#L127-L176
11:50 < ffmdr> is it adding colors tags to nick?
11:50 < nopresnik> pretty much, yeah
11:50 <+md_5> probably gonna have to use reflection
11:50  * md_5 checks
11:51 < ffmdr> yeah field.setAccessible(true)
11:51 <+md_5> yah
11:51 <+md_5> reflection required
11:55 < nopresnik> Well what's the best way of doing that?
12:07 < ffmdr> health is now float right?
12:08 < ffmdr> is not 10 hearts 10.0 health?
12:09 < ffmdr> is now*
12:09 < nopresnik> I did hear that in #bukkitdev
15:13 <+sadimusi> if I generate a new access token, does my old one get invalidated? I certainly hope not
15:14 < SinZ> I think they only get invalidated if you log out with them
15:15 <+sadimusi> alright, so if I steal one I just have to use it once so the actual user has to get a new one :)
15:25 < ffmdr> sadimusi: it is
15:25 < ffmdr> you receive a new one
15:26 <+sadimusi> of course I receive a new one, the question is wether I can still use the old one to log in
15:26 < ffmdr> ohh
15:26 < ffmdr> thats a good question
15:26 < ffmdr> give me your token, I'll check it
15:26 <+sadimusi> :p
15:27 <+sadimusi> where is this thing stored?
15:29 < ffmdr> o.O
15:29 < ffmdr> can't find it
15:29 < ffmdr> got it
15:29 < ffmdr> launcher_profiles.json
15:29 < ffmdr> there are accessToken and clientToken
15:32 <+sadimusi> yep, it's still valid
15:32 < ffmdr> sadimusi: send me yours, I'll try to login as you and check
15:32 < ffmdr> :P
15:32 <+sadimusi> wait, an old access token is also still valid? o.O
15:33 <+sadimusi> ah no, the client just doesn't complain
15:33 < ffmdr> http://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/fq8zi/why_does_logging_onto_a_smp_server_require/
15:34 <+sadimusi> the issue would be invalidating those signatures when you change the passowrd
15:35 < ffmdr> hmm
15:35 < ffmdr> so checking if key was revoked
15:35 < ffmdr> but this way it would be same traffic load on auth servers
15:35 < ffmdr> I guess
15:36 <+sadimusi> a centralized system isn't that bad, the auth servers aren't down nearly as much recently as they used to
15:37 < ffmdr> afk
15:38 < TkTech> They're up more often then they're down at least, which is a change :)
15:38  * TkTech still can't believe he home-rolled his database
15:39  * sadimusi still can't believe minecraft.app doesn't want to use the pretty jdk 7 he installed :/
15:40 < TkTech> Did they set a fixed version in the plist?
15:40 <+sadimusi> not sure, it might be OS related
15:40 <+sadimusi> I'm using the mavericks preview, so it's totally my fault
15:41 <+sadimusi> running it from the console works fine though :)
15:42 <+sadimusi> oracle removed all the mac links for jdk 6 o.O
15:43 < barneygale> I wonder /why/ mc.net is up more now. afaik part of the problem was it being a java app running on a single machine keeping all its data in memory
15:43 < barneygale> Have they improved the code, or the architecture?
15:44 <+sadimusi> iirc they switched from jsp to play
15:44 < barneygale> play? /me googles
15:44 < barneygale> ah nice, that's good
15:44 <+sadimusi> mollstam once mentioned it and I think there is still a play fork in their github org
15:45 < barneygale> for all the shit the mc devs get, it's a lot better than it used to be
15:45 < barneygale> Did SirCmpwn get banned for his tirade against grum last week?
15:45 < SinZ> yup
15:46 < barneygale> good
15:46 < barneygale> I was hoping that would happen - it was pretty unacceptable
16:09 < ffmdr> barneygale: again?
16:10 < barneygale> yeah you'd think he'd learn
16:10 < ffmdr> > * sadimusi [14:39:44] still can't believe minecraft.app doesn't want to use the pretty jdk 7 he installed :/
16:10 < ffmdr> sadimusi: apple tools don't play well with oracle jdk
16:50 < Drainedsoul> well assuming he values actually speaking his mind about the various developmentally-challenged parts of Minecraft over being in this channel, there's nothing to learn
16:50 < dav1d> I guess it's time to update!
16:50 < dav1d> burger, yay
16:50 < Drainedsoul> "you'd think he'd learn" is condescending and implies there's some kind of "lesson", that the moderators/administrators of this channel are some arbiters of moral rectitude
16:55 < Grum> * sadimusi [14:39:44] still can't believe minecraft.app doesn't want to use the pretty jdk 7 he installed :/ <-- just make it use it?
16:56 < dav1d> y u osx :(
16:56 < Grum> also saying 'minecraft.app' means nothing :P
16:56 < Grum> which of the two? ;D
16:57 < dav1d> chromium cache is pissing me off right now, updating documentation and I have to wget it to check if it updated
17:01 < ffmdr> Grum: last time I checked Apple java wrapper for .app doesn't seen oracle java
17:01 < dexter0> Apple recommends that developers bundle Java with the .app
17:02 < dexter0> and they must do so if they submit to the Mac App Store (which I know you guys don't)
17:14 < AlexDaDu> Anybody here who knows the new available fields of the ServerPingPaket?
17:17 < TkTech> Was the wiki not already updated?
17:17 < mbaxter> Didn't seem to be when I looked
17:17 < dx> probably not, it was a really late addition
17:18 < TkTech> Grum: dexter0 has a point actually, do you happen to know why it isn't bundled? Just not a priority at the moment or is there a technical blocker?
17:20 < barneygale> Drainedsoul: what are you talking about? http://mcdevs.org/irc/rules "Do not harass Mojang employees." is why he was banned, I assume.
17:20 < barneygale> IRC channels need rules yo
17:20 < barneygale> well, when they're big enough anyway
17:21 < Drainedsoul> which has nothing to do with what I said.  What I said was that following the rules is only worthwhile so long as the benefits do not outweigh the costs.  This is true of everything in life.
17:21 < barneygale> Your argument is "rules are made to be broken"?
17:21 < barneygale> Fascinating
17:22 < Drainedsoul> No, my argument is that everything has a cost/benefit calculus
17:22 < Drainedsoul> and that valuations are subjective
17:22 < barneygale> Sure. And the people who actually /run/ the channel thought it was out of line
17:22 < Drainedsoul> so where the benefits -- if any, to you -- of harassing Mojang employees may not outweigh the costs -- being banned -- the same may not be true for SirCmpwn
17:22 < barneygale> As did basically everyone else who was there
17:22 < dx> AlexDaDu: parse everything after the constant 1 byte that was there before as a "plugin message" packet, the contents of that message are a byte that is the protocol version, a string that is the host the client is connecting to, and an int that is the port AFAIK
17:22 <+ammar2> AlexDaDu: the client sends the normal \xFE ping packet, followed by a plugin message packet containing a byte, string and int (unsure about the order jsut yet)
17:23 < dx> ammar2: ha ha i win
17:23 <+ammar2> good on you
17:23 < dx> ha ha.
17:23 < Drainedsoul> http://puu.sh/3sLmk.png here's the packet, for reference
17:23 < AlexDaDu> ok, thanks :) I'll try it.
17:24 < barneygale> So speaking of which I'm updating the Server List Ping page, and was wondering what the channel thinks of this example that was added: http://wiki.vg/Server_List_Ping#Example
17:24 < barneygale> I think it's a bit verbose and duplicates the example above it.
17:24 < Drainedsoul> since I added it I think it's good
17:25 < barneygale> oh you did?
17:25 < barneygale> well, any other thoughts? tis a wiki after all. I don't mind if it stays.
17:25 < dx> "PROTOCOL ANALYSIS" lol
17:25 < mbaxter> I dunno why it sends it as FA custom message instead of just, you know, sending the String
17:25 <+ammar2> seems ok I guess, a bit too verbose for my liking though
17:25 <+ammar2> mbaxter: because the server continues to reads packets as normal
17:26 <+ammar2> so you can't just send more stuff without it being interpreted as a new packet
17:26 < dx> mbaxter: old servers stop parsing when they get 0xFE 0x01
17:26 <+ammar2> dx: they don't, which is what the problem is.
17:26 < dx> er.
17:26  * barneygale wonders what extra data format will be tacked on the next time they want to change server list ping ;D
17:26 < mbaxter> ammar2: pfffffffffft don't need your logic
17:26 <+ammar2> after you send that 0x01 its waiting on a keep alive id
17:26 < dx> yeah i said it backwards.
17:26 < dx> ammar2: keepalive is 0x00
17:26 < mbaxter> correct.
17:26 < dx> none of that is sent
17:26 <+ammar2> well whatever the the thing is
17:27 < mbaxter> 0x01 is login request, lol
17:27 < mbaxter> silly amar
17:27 < mbaxter> +m
17:27 <+ammar2> yeah so its waiting on the rest of that packet
17:27 <+ammar2> which is why the hacky plugin message approach
17:27 < dx> that's *really* old servers
17:28 < dx> the ones mojang doesn't care about
17:28 <+ammar2> yup, gr.um was fine with them being broken but not the ones which try to read that one byte out
17:28 < Drainedsoul> well I think the issue is that at some point they did care about them, and now they're stuck with that legacy
17:29 < dx> yes, they cared about them when they weren't too old
17:29 < dx> lol.
17:29 < Drainedsoul> it's kind of like why WinAPI still has relics of old 16-bit Windows in it
17:31 < AlexDaDu> So, is the new information, such as host and port, included in the ServerPingPacket or in an extra packet?
17:31 < barneygale> Drainedsoul: windows has older stuff than that
17:31 <+ammar2> extra packet
17:31 < mbaxter> I believe it'd be read as a 250 immediately after the ping packet?
17:32 < barneygale> try creating a file called AUX
17:32 < mbaxter> 250/FA
17:32 < dx> the official implementation sends everything as part of 0xFE
17:32 <+ammar2> mbaxter: riht
17:32 < mbaxter> ammar2: yay
17:32 < barneygale> You won't be able to do it, and that restriction came from DOS 1.0 (iirc)
17:32 <+ammar2> dx: wot m8
17:32 < dx> you're free to interpret 0xFE 0x01 as one thing, and 0xFA and the rest as another packet
17:32 < dx> ammar2: check burger m8
17:32 < dx> http://b.wiki.vg/1.6...1.6.1#packets:0xfe
17:32 <+ammar2> dx: regardless of how its sent, at the other end it looks like a \xFA after a \xFE
17:33 < dx> yeah
17:33 < dx> well
17:33 < barneygale> Actually I was intending to write up on Server_List_Ping as if it were one packet
17:33 < dx> i think the read part of this is symmetrical too
17:33 < Drainedsoul> I think that's the best approach
17:33 < barneygale> As it's good to have that page readable without understanding the Protocol page
17:33 <+ammar2> certainly makes sense
17:34 < AlexDaDu> In the original minecraft code it seems to be send in one packet
17:34 < dx> barneygale: hmm sounds good, but also mention that it can also be interpreted as 0xFA for backwards compat, since people will wonder what those fields are for
17:34 < barneygale> Yep, sure
17:36 < dx> should burger vitrine show obfuscated class names? the json output includes it, and in this case i'd like to look at that code
17:37 < dx> i mean, are there any reasons to hide that kind of info?
17:38 < TkTech> sadimusi: ^
17:39 < dx> (mostly for convenience. getting burger working locally was trivial, other than the fact that the dependency on solum wasn't mentioned)
17:39 < dx> "pip install git+https://etc" was enough to solve that
17:51 < AlexDaDu> I've solved my problem.
17:54 < AlexDaDu> 3 + 2 * this.b.length() + 4, what is 3 for a length?
17:54 < ffmdr> where
17:55 < AlexDaDu> In the 0xFA PingHost paket
17:55 < ffmdr> it is short and byte
17:55 < AlexDaDu> https://github.com/Bukkit/mc-dev/blob/master/net/minecraft/server/Packet254GetInfo.java#L36
17:55 <+ammar2> 1 (protocol version) + 2 (string short prefix)
17:57 < AlexDaDu> ah ok, thanks 
17:57 < AlexDaDu> Makes sense
17:57 < TkTech> dx: https://github.com/mcdevs/Burger/issues/9
17:58 < TkTech> Only 12 months ago.
17:58 < dx> TkTech: lol
17:59 < TkTech> dx: There's an edit button on github's UI now…no excuses!
17:59 < TkTech> Think it should be there, add it :P
17:59 < dx> lol.
17:59 < dx> you have no excuses either :D
17:59 < TkTech> Burger + Solum are both deprecated to me, it's sadimusi's project now.
18:00 < dx> excuses!
18:00 < dx> dammit.
18:01 < Yoshi2> there is an excuse for everything ;)
18:01 < TkTech> Solum is looooong dead to me, I haven't made a commit in…oh my god it's been two years?!
18:04 <+ammar2> barneygale: btw I updated your gist for the new stuff https://gist.github.com/ammaraskar/5910348
18:04 <+ammar2> if it seems hacky, thats because it is.
18:06 < barneygale> Oh, I got distracted doing something else bah
18:18 < barneygale> alright, here you go
18:18 < barneygale> when did minecraft get
18:19 < barneygale> err, clipboard fail
18:19 < barneygale> http://wiki.vg/Server_List_Ping
18:19 < barneygale> ^ thar
18:19 < barneygale> Formatting is a bit pants at the moment - not sure if I should move it into a table or perhaps make it all monospace
18:19 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-0/±4] http://git.io/qaMQ4w
18:19 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn f07ba3f - Added 1.6.1 support
18:20 <+ammar2> barneygale: XX XX - port the client is connecting to, as a big-endian short.
18:21 <+ammar2> burger says int
18:21 <+ammar2> my code works with int
18:21 < barneygale> oh, my mistake
18:21 <+ammar2> and the length adds a 4 on, which is the length of an int
18:21 < barneygale> Hm, really?
18:22 <+ammar2> yup
18:22 < barneygale> Its 4 too big? :/
18:22 < barneygale> That seems like a bug
18:22 <+ammar2> wat
18:22 < barneygale> also why is mojang encoding ports as ints...
18:22 <+ammar2> because they can?
18:23 < barneygale> aren't port numbers restricted to 16 bit? I thought everything uses shorts for em
18:24 <+ammar2> seems so
18:24 < Grum> the other port was also transmitted as int; just keeping it identical
18:24 <+ammar2> barneygale: well whatever the case, they've used int for ports and you should fixitfixitfixit
18:24 < barneygale> yeah fixing it now
18:25 < Not-001> [PartyCraft] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/J8w4kQ
18:25 < Not-001> [PartyCraft] SirCmpwn 90c8c2a - Update to 1.6.1
18:26 < Yoshi2> maybe because port numbers go up to 65 535, but a signed short can only store half of that
18:26 < Not-001> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/YYbYpQ
18:26 < Not-001> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn 8b7f436 - Update to 1.6.1
18:26 < barneygale> ah Yoshi2 that'll be it
18:27 < barneygale> updated the page btw
18:28 <+ammar2> barneygale: minor stuff: no need to specify big endian, thats the network order. May wanna elaborate a bit on 'length of the rest of the packet, as a big-endian short'
18:28 <+ammar2> since rest of the packet is gonna confuse people if they haven't looked at the plugin message packet page
18:30 < barneygale> "rest of the data" would be better I suppose
18:33 < Drainedsoul> why do people insist on saying "short", "int", "long" instead of "16-bit signed integer"
18:34 < dx> because saying short is shorter
18:34 < Drainedsoul> it's ambiguous
18:34 < SinZ> because short,int,long are better than int16,32,8,64
18:35 < dx> it's defined clearly in the data types wiki page
18:35 < Drainedsoul> so if people happen to read the data types page, then they'll know.  The issue is that "short", "int", "long", etc. are all actual data types.
18:36 < Drainedsoul> and they don't have a specific, fixed width in all instances
18:36 < barneygale> their length is obvious from the page
18:36 < dx> they do. in java.
18:36 <+ammar2> in the context of the minecraft protocol they have a particular meaning
18:36 < barneygale> and yeah, in java they do have those lengths
18:36 < barneygale> have you taken over as knit-picker general now
18:37 < Drainedsoul> yeah but the world doens't revolve around Java, as evidenced by the fact that the wiki gives code examples in a variety of languages
18:37 < barneygale> ammar2: made the changes you suggested
18:37 <+ammar2> barneygale: thanks <3
18:37 < dx> the minecraft protocol revolves around java
18:37 < barneygale> Drainedsoul: the wiki also gives example values every time it mentions "short" or whatever
18:37 < barneygale> there is no ambiguity
18:37 < barneygale> stop complaining
18:38 < Drainedsoul> I don't think pointing out that something is potentially ambiguous is "complaining"
18:38 < barneygale> It's not potentially ambiguous
18:38 < barneygale> only to complete cretins
18:39 < Drainedsoul> it's actually deliberately ambiguous in certain contexts
18:39 < barneygale> Where
18:39 < dx> it's only ambiguous if you're talking about C code that will be ported to several architectures
18:39 < Drainedsoul> the C and C++ standards deliberately avoid fixing the widths of short/int/long, giving them only minimum widths
18:39 < barneygale> dx: even then, there are example values and I'm intending to give a full packet dump.
18:40 < barneygale> if confusion enters the mind of a reader for a split second it can be easily resolved by checking either of those
18:40 <+ammar2> or you know, reading the Data types page
18:40 < dx> this is not C. we assume people coding C will be aware that their language makes no guarantee on the lengths of those data types. it's not our problem if they don't
18:40 <+ammar2> which is a pre-requisite to understanding the protocol anyway
18:40 < dx> ^
18:40 < barneygale> ammar2: I try to keep the Server List Ping page readable to people who don't want to understand the rest of the protocol
18:40 < Drainedsoul> or you could just make communication unambiguous
18:40 < barneygale> hence why it doesn't say "send an 0xFE, then a 0xFA"
18:41 < barneygale> Drainedsoul: then start your own wiki, with your own formal notation system
18:41 <+ammar2> barneygale: yeah but the data types page isn't exactly a large block of text like the protocol page. May as well link to that too
18:41 < barneygale> because using english is inherently ambiguous
18:41 <+ammar2> just to keep grounds covered
18:41 < barneygale> ammar2: sure
18:42 < barneygale> done.
18:42 < TkTech> barneygale: Because they have to.
18:43 < barneygale> TkTech: sorry, what was that in response to?
18:43 < TkTech> barneygale: The max port is 65535, which is an unsigned short.
18:43 < dx> oh, that.
18:43 < TkTech> barneygale: No unsigned types in Java, so you either have to & 0xFF it, or just store it as a larger type.
18:43 < barneygale> Right, yeah
18:43 < dx> context: "why is the port field int not short"
18:44 < barneygale> Yoshi2 explained that to me
18:44  * barneygale isn't very familiar with java
18:44 < Drainedsoul> lol no unsigned data types
18:44 < Drainedsoul> good language
18:44 < barneygale> Drainedsoul seems oddly familiar.
18:44 < dx> better than having every value as a double
18:44 < Drainedsoul> that's undoubtedly true
18:44  * dx read a 15 minute lua tutorial last week
18:45 < Drainedsoul> it's also better than having only 1 fixed width integer type, which is signed
18:45 < Drainedsoul> doesn't JavaScript do all numbers are doubles too?
18:45 <+ammar2> dx: oh god the one on site with comments in code explaining everything?
18:46 < dx> ammar2: ye, wat about it?
18:46 <+ammar2> dx: nil
18:46 < barneygale> Drainedsoul: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/oldnewthing/archive/2012/10/17/10360184.aspx
18:46 < dx> ammar2: hmm, i think that wasn't mentioned..
18:47 < dx> ammar2: WELP
18:47 < Yoshi2> catching exceptions in lua is fun because it often involves checking if the result of a function is nil
18:47 < TkTech> dx: Python does numerics pretty well (at least with 3.3+'s Decimal module updates)
18:47 < TkTech> dx: Dynamic typing + evolving types
18:48 < Drainedsoul> barneygale: http://wiki.vg/NBT#Specification
18:48 < TkTech> Where a number will change types to suit its value and eventually if necessary turn into an arbitrary-precision value.
18:48 <+ammar2> oh yeah, its really handy to have something just increase its capacity instead of overflowing
18:48 < barneygale> So change it if you want, I won't revert it back
18:48 < barneygale> someone who might feel more strongly than me might do so
18:49 < barneygale> you can have your bottle.
18:49 < Drainedsoul> my point is that it's been changed, and has been for a while
18:49 <+ammar2> TkTech: one of the many reasons why its great for quick prototyping
18:49 < Drainedsoul> well automatic promotion is great except where it isn't, I don't know how I feel about that
18:50 < Drainedsoul> I'm personally a fan of checked arithmetic, where you throw on overflow
18:54 < dx> TkTech: python handles it nicely (although not caring about efficiency), but i think what lua does is justified since their VM is tiny
18:55 < TkTech> dx: Wah? Python's AP is very efficient. 3.*+ has made incredible (over 300x speedups) leaps
18:55 < TkTech> dx: http://docs.python.org/3/whatsnew/3.3.html#new-decimal
18:57 < dx> TkTech: oh, i haven't followed on 3.3, but i meant that some operations will get inconsistent performance due to reallocations... or they did, before this update.
18:57 < dx> TkTech: it's not like most people can realistically use 3.x yet, though :(
18:57 < TkTech> dx: Sure they can, hell it's the default on Ubuntu.
18:58 < TkTech> dx: And the allocation issue is solved in part or in whole by pypy or one of the many inline tools for CPython
18:59 < dx> TkTech: and it's been the default in arch for a long while and all i do is typing python2 or changing hashbang lines of script, because most stuff isn't ported yet
18:59 < TkTech> Pfft, lazy bones. You're a dev and the project is probably open source!
19:00 < TkTech> 99% of my old tools were a quick 2to3 away from porting.
19:00 < dx> TkTech: the port of flask/werkzeug to py3 was finished last month actually, i could port some of my stuff to it now, but i believe i have other deps that are stuck in py2 still
19:01 < dx> TkTech: it's all about deps. it's rarely as simple as 2to3 for them
19:46 < ellisvlad> hey guys, quick question..
19:46 < ellisvlad> Have I got it right that Servers need to handle sprinting now?
19:47 < ellisvlad> e.g. when the player's speeds change
19:50 < TkTech> Yar, but it's apparently getting un-done.
20:36 < ellisvlad> oh kk
20:36 < ellisvlad> thx
20:37 < ellisvlad> I just spent the last half hour coding a sprint system to give 20 blocks of sprint with 0.3blocks/sec regen
20:37 < ellisvlad> lol
21:52 < Drainedsoul> yesterday someone pasted me the vanilla Minecraft's chat formatting enum.  Super useful but unfortunately the paste expired. :/  Anyone happen to have that?
21:56 < iBotPeaches> ah darn, i want that too. Instead of manually figuring out what all these possible "translate:" values are
22:12 < ffmdr> Drainedsoul: you mean my paste?
22:15 < ffmdr> Drainedsoul: https://gist.github.com/265374b55a14c08e39e3
22:17 < Drainedsoul> yes, sweet, thanks
22:19 < ffmdr> how does colors in entity names work now??
22:19 < ffmdr> is it also json?
22:20 < iBotPeaches> yer, "color": "yellow"
22:21 < iBotPeaches> I don't know all the colors yet, but all the basic ones seem to work
22:21 < iBotPeaches> and don't know how to color portions of strings anymore, because it seems the color effects entire string
22:23 < ffmdr> iBotPeaches: could you test dark_blue and "dark blue" for me
22:24 < iBotPeaches> ffmdr: at work now, can't be spinning up minecraft windows :)
22:24 < Drainedsoul> I'm pretty sure you can embed objects, so you can do
22:24 < ffmdr> iBotPeaches: :P
22:25 < Drainedsoul> {"text":[{"color":"blue","text":"hello"}," ",{"color":"yellow","text":"world"}]}
22:26 < ffmdr> what about entity names
22:27 < Drainedsoul> I have no idea about entity names, I'm trying to make my chat implementation compliant
22:27 < iBotPeaches> Drainedsoul: I'll give it a shot, too bad its a lot of bloat if you wanna throw a lot of colors together
22:29 < ffmdr> I can do a quick converter from & color codes
22:30 < iBotPeaches> if dark blue == navy, I have navy confirmed working
22:33 < Drainedsoul> is it actually called "navy"?
22:38 < ffmdr> what the heck is "navy"?
22:38 < Drainedsoul> a kind of dark blue
22:38 < Drainedsoul> "navy blue"?
22:40 < Drainedsoul> so are bold/italic/underline/strikethrough/random combinable now?
22:40 < Drainedsoul> like can you set "bold":true,"italic":true ?
22:41 < Drainedsoul> and is it "underline" or "underlined"?
22:42 < iBotPeaches> I'm still working my json thing through, havent made it to those yet
22:47 < Yoshi2> Drainedsoul: if I remember correctly, making italic/bold/etc. combinable is one of the reasons why the new chat system was created
22:49 < Drainedsoul> my biggest problem with this system is that it's a lot harder to make it gracefully fail
22:49 < Drainedsoul> previously if you had a string longer than 32267 characters, you could just slice it down to 32267, check for a trailing section sign, and send it
22:49 < Drainedsoul> what am I supposed to do with this JSON object, just not send it at all?
22:53 < iBotPeaches> Drainedsoul: thats what I'm dealing with :/ (I'm reconstructing the json, except the split text part)
22:53 < iBotPeaches> which is failing still miserably due to invalid json, since I keep accidentally splitting mid json format
22:54 < Drainedsoul> the only thing I can think of, which would be ridiculously expensive, is take your JSON object, reparse it, remove later nodes from it, reserialize it, and see what it serializes to
22:54 < Drainedsoul> either that or start again from scratch and cut out nodes or segments of text
22:54 < Drainedsoul> or just not send overlong serializations at all
22:55 < Drainedsoul> just send {"text":""} or something
22:55 < iBotPeaches> yeah gonna stick with not sending anything, till I have a lot of time
23:24 < Drainedsoul> so with JSON chat, is U+00A7 representable as a literal now?
23:49 < ffmdr> does anyone know good pastebin alternative with delete option which isn't gist?
23:50 < Drainedsoul> you can delete from pastebin?
23:51 < ffmdr> yeah
23:51 < ffmdr> with an account
23:51 < Drainedsoul> yeah
23:51 < Drainedsoul> ? what's the problem with that ?
23:52 < ffmdr> problem is that it is pastebin
23:52 < Drainedsoul> how is that a problem
23:52 < ffmdr> I don't like it
23:52 < Drainedsoul> oh, okay.  I misunderstood your question.
23:52 < ffmdr> pastebin stores password as unstalted md5
23:52 < ffmdr> passwords*
23:53 < Drainedsoul> I just log into pastebin with my facebook : P
23:53 < ffmdr> >_<
23:53 < ffmdr> yeah that perfectly solves the problem
23:53 < Drainedsoul> I'm not sure if that's sarcasm or not.
23:53 < ffmdr> recently pastebin was hacked and all emails/passwords/ips was leaked
23:54 < dav1d> also pastebin is ugly
23:54 < dav1d> use you rown
23:54 < dav1d> ffmdr: https://github.com/Dav1dde/vp
23:55 < ellisvlad> lol
23:55 < ellisvlad> nice
23:55 < ffmdr> meh I know some cool open source ones but I don't want to host my own
23:55 < ellisvlad> or use puush Much better ;)
23:56 < ellisvlad> you can send screenshots, files and text super quickly :P
23:56 < ellisvlad> look
23:56 < ellisvlad> http://puu.sh/3tEoJ.png
23:56 < Drainedsoul> in fairness I could've hosted that screenshot on imgur about as quickly
23:56 < ffmdr> I use screencloud
23:57 < ffmdr> ellisvlad: your fonts suck
23:57 < Drainedsoul> http://alternativeto.net/software/pastie/ ?
23:57 < ellisvlad> But I just hit Ctrl+Shift+PrntScrn Drag a region to screenshot and then I get the uploaded url on my clipboard ;)
23:57 < ellisvlad> http://puu.sh/3tEqq.txt
23:58 < dav1d> you can do that with basically every pastebin, if you set up the correct keybindings
23:58 < dav1d> it would be ~1 bashline with xbindkeys and xcliü
23:59 < ellisvlad> It's much easier than using pastebin tho
23:59 < ffmdr> hf copying text from screenshots
--- Day changed mer. juil. 03 2013
00:00 < Drainedsoul> I had an instructor in college who used to put code snippets in lab write ups as jpegs
00:00 < Drainedsoul> -_-
00:00 < ellisvlad> lol
00:00 < ellisvlad> Thats what puush Ctrl+Alt+V is for, upload clipboard ;)
00:00 < dav1d> lol
00:00 < dav1d> we get entire images made out of latex
00:00 < ellisvlad> ouch
00:01 < ellisvlad> anyway gtg, cya ;)
00:47 <+sadimusi> dx: class names would make sense, I often need them and have to look at the json...
00:47 <+sadimusi> dx: I'm reworking vitrine anyway, I'm sure I'll find a place for them
00:49 <+sadimusi> it's also getting a redesign :) (WIP: http://cl.ly/Q1pm)
00:58 <+ammar2> sadimusi: purdy
01:14 < dav1d> burder pls
01:43 < Drainedsoul> anyone have any kind of word on what the valid strings for the "color" property are yet?
01:48 < ffmdr> +1
01:48 < Drainedsoul> if not I'm getting to the point where I'll be able to test
01:59 <+sadimusi> I guess still just the ansi colors
02:00 <+sadimusi> and I think I saw an underscore somewhere
02:00 <+sadimusi> so dark_blue for the darker variants
02:01 <+sadimusi> *light_blue
02:59 < Drainedsoul> So the client accepts this ==> {"text":[{"color":"green","text":[{"bold":true,"text":["Drainedsoul"]}," has come online"]}]}
02:59 < Drainedsoul> but outputs it with no bold or colour :|
03:45 < iBotPeaches> Drainedsoul: if you make the color node and text node in the same level, instead of nested, does that work
03:46 < Drainedsoul> lemme try it rq
03:48 < Drainedsoul> yeah that works
03:49 < iBotPeaches> that worked for me too, but then I can't control individual color
03:49 < Drainedsoul> hmm?
03:49 < iBotPeaches> i mean multiple colors
03:50 < iBotPeaches> the instead I nest color in a text node, it doesn't take it
03:50 < iBotPeaches> http://i.imgur.com/2f5ifB3.png
03:50 < Drainedsoul> gimme a sec
03:53 < Drainedsoul> yeah this {"text":[{"color":"green","text":"hello"},{"color":"red","text":"world"}]}
03:53 < Drainedsoul> just outputs white text
03:53 <+sadimusi> o.O
03:53 < iBotPeaches> coloring usernames should not be this hard
03:53 < iBotPeaches> it just takes the color of the root node color, and refuses any nested colors
03:54 <+sadimusi> that's definitely not how it's intended
03:55 <+sadimusi> [...] there'll be a proper stack based colouring/formatting system, so no more leaking colours [...]
03:55 < iBotPeaches> gonna go look back at the gist
03:55 < iBotPeaches> maybe missed something
03:55 <+sadimusi> there is no nesting there
04:02 < iBotPeaches> yeah just tried switching orders up, just in case it was picky, no go
04:02 < Drainedsoul> it doesn't look like the old school formatting works either
04:03 < Drainedsoul> unless it only works in the root text node
04:07 < iBotPeaches> If you pack the entire string into the root text node though with old formatting it works
04:07 < iBotPeaches> thats what im doing now
04:07 < Drainedsoul> lol okay, time to pull all my old chat-handling code back down from GitHub and abandon ship on this new stuff
04:08 < iBotPeaches> though, bad practice cause how long will old stuff work with new json :o
04:08 < Drainedsoul> I'd say we should report this as a bug, but there's probably no vanilla use case
04:08 < Drainedsoul> lol
04:11 < mbaxter> The serializer does not work
04:11 < mbaxter> (as one would expect)
04:12 < mbaxter> Presumably it's incomplete.
04:13 < Drainedsoul> one would expect something pushed in a release build of a piece of software not to work?
04:13 < Drainedsoul> or am I parsing what you said wrong
04:13 < iBotPeaches> yeah this isn't < 1.0 anymore, this is just aggravating
04:15 < mbaxter> serializing a ChatMessage with two ChatMessages as children, it turns it into {"text":["firsttext","secondtext"]} and drops formatting/color.
04:16 < iBotPeaches> then removing the old style chat in new json, should never happen, until the new system works
04:17 < iBotPeaches> im out of here, killed my drive to work
04:17 < Drainedsoul> rofl
04:18 < Drainedsoul> inb4 this is "working as intended"
04:19 < Drainedsoul> there, back up-and-running with old style chat inside a thin JSON wrapper lol
04:19 <+sadimusi> I guess each node just applies its style to all children and the default is white with no style instead of noop
04:19 < Drainedsoul> surely this is the kind of bug that would get caught in testing though
04:19 < Drainedsoul> I mean who designs a tree structure and only tests it with one child
04:20 <+sadimusi> Dinnerbone, apparently :P
04:20 < Drainedsoul> ;)
04:20 <+sadimusi> somebody has to ask him tomorrow
04:23 < mbaxter> Interesting part is that the code that takes a ChatMessage to console-readable text seems to work fine
14:50 < ellisvlad> Hmm, hey guys :D
14:51 < ellisvlad> is there an easy way to stop the client checking the minecraft login is valid before connecting to a server?
14:51 < ellisvlad> What I mean is, that in <1.6 it was easy to connect to a server with two open minecraft clients, but you needed two logins, which I have.
14:52 < ellisvlad> How can I connect to my testing server with two seperate clients, logged in as DIFFERENT accounts without http://puu.sh/3u5J0.png on either of them :/
14:53 < dx> interesting
14:55 < dx> that actually looks like the server rejecting your login, not the client checking it
14:55 < ellisvlad> But I coded the server, and never made a login check :P
14:55 < dx> ..wait what
14:55 < ellisvlad> It was fine in 1.5.2 and before, but 1.6 one break it x.x
14:56 < dx> err.. when do you get this message exactly?
14:56 < ellisvlad> Just as I connect
14:56 < dx> to the server?
14:56 < ellisvlad> yeah
14:56 < dx> wot.
14:57 < ellisvlad> "Connecting..." then "Logging in..." then it says failed :/
14:57 < dx> okay yeah i haven't bothered to look at the new auth flow so this makes no sense for me
14:57 < SinZ> I don't think Yggdrasil touched server auth
14:57 < ellisvlad> Hmm :P
14:58 < dx> are these usernames part of the same mojang account?
14:58 < ellisvlad> no
14:58 < ellisvlad> ah hang on...
14:58 < ellisvlad> http://puu.sh/3u5S7.png
14:58 < ellisvlad> lol xD
14:58 < SinZ> usernames as we know it, are "profiles" in mojang accounts
14:59 < ellisvlad> I'm going to hope it is the minecraft multiplayer auth servers failing :P
14:59 < dx> ellisvlad: but you said you never made the login check
14:59 < dx> ._.
14:59 < dx> (so like offline mode due to laziness?)
15:00 < ellisvlad> Server that is being connected to definately makes no checks of user authentication, I turned it all off
15:00 < ellisvlad> Vanilla client is failing the login check, I think..
15:03 < dx> yep. makes no sense.
15:04 < ellisvlad> http://puu.sh/3u63z.jpg
15:06 < ellisvlad> :( Multiplayer servers are back online.. but it still doesn't work
15:07 <+sadimusi> do you have to click "log out" on the second client?
15:08 <+sadimusi> if you do the auth server won't accept a joinserver request from the client
15:08 <+sadimusi> you can try removing the profiles json before starting the second client
15:08 <+sadimusi> or just disable the auto login
15:09 < ellisvlad> I disabled auto login
15:10 <+sadimusi> maybe a http proxy can help
15:10 <+sadimusi> just to debug it I mean
15:11 <+sadimusi> a fake auth server would definitely do the trick, but you shouldn't have to go to such lengths
15:11 <+sadimusi> what does the dev console say btw?
15:12 < dx> http proxy... hmm
15:12 < ellisvlad> Might just make a fake auth server :/
15:12 < ellisvlad> sadimusi: http://puu.sh/3u63z.jpg
15:13 < dx> i'd expect this kind of auth to use SSL with certificate checking
15:13 < ellisvlad> I don't think it does
15:13 <+sadimusi> dx: I don't think the certificate is pinned
15:13 < dx> that's just what i expect from sensible auth methods :3
15:14 <+sadimusi> and even if it is, it's probably somewhere in the jar
15:14 < dx> but yes, in the worst case, just mod launcher/client/server
15:14 < dx> ye
15:15 < ellisvlad> ugh, this is a pain
15:15 < ellisvlad> it was fine with 1.5 launcher :P
15:16 < ellisvlad> What is mcoapi.minecraft.net?
15:17 < SinZ> realms
15:17 < ellisvlad> kkl
15:45 < ellisvlad> Right OK
15:45 < ellisvlad> guys to anyone who had the same problem as me when they wanted to test, I've made a solution :P
15:46 < dx> yes?
15:47 < ellisvlad> Two steps
15:47 < ellisvlad> firstly, Add "127.0.0.1 session.minecraft.net" to your hosts file (http://puu.sh/3u7fU.png)
15:48 < ellisvlad> (REMEMEBER TO REMOVE THIS WHEN YOU WANT TO USE THE PROPER AUTH SERVERS AGAIN!!)
15:50 < ellisvlad> Secondly, download and run http://81.105.11.105/SessionMC-FakeAuth.exe
15:50 < ellisvlad> just leave it running, and it will just auth you no matter what
15:51 < ellisvlad> I wrote that program myself and can promise it has no viruses or any of that crap :/ but feel free to scan it and run in sandbox or whatever
15:51 < ellisvlad> it will need to open port 80 though
15:52  * Yoshi2 uses a disassembler on the .exe
15:52 < ellisvlad> lol
15:54 < ellisvlad> Here is teh source if you really want it http://puu.sh/3u7sD.zip
15:54 < ellisvlad> CPP.cpp is the main file
15:54 < ellisvlad> http://puu.sh/3u7tQ.txt
15:55 < dx> regardless of the fact that you wrote it, i can't help but say that the url looks LEGIT AS FUCK
15:55 < ellisvlad> ik, my DNS thing is messed up
15:55 < ellisvlad> sec
15:55 < Flemmard> CPP.cpp, nice naming
15:55 < ellisvlad> lol
15:55 < sfan5> :D
15:55 < dx> your indentation is messed up
15:56 < ellisvlad> http://www.ellisvlad.com/Server.exe
15:56 < ellisvlad> better? ;)
15:56 < dx> as a python programmer, i am legally required to stab you for that indentation fuckup
15:56  * dx stabs ellisvlad
15:56 < ellisvlad> ;)
15:56 < ellisvlad> I made this in a hurry xD
15:56 < ellisvlad> This in no way showcases my ability or skill ;)
15:58 < ellisvlad> anyway, if you want to use it, do :P
15:58 < ellisvlad> if not, then just ignore it :P
15:59 < ellisvlad> if you don't want to download/run the exe change your hosts to point to my IP
15:59 < ellisvlad> I'll have the thing running for the next few hours
15:59 < ellisvlad> by few hours I mean 10-12 xD
15:59 < iBotPeaches> a new day, no anger. Drainedsoul did you report that bug? should we fire it on the bug tracker or just ping it here?
16:02 < ellisvlad> x.x My L key has fallen off my keyboard
16:04 < Flemmard> it has l-eft
16:05 < ellisvlad> *slow clap*
16:05 < ellisvlad> ;)
16:05 < Flemmard> sorry :D
16:12 <+sadimusi> iBotPeaches: first try pinging him, if it doesn't work use the bug tracker
16:14 < Yoshi2> ellisvlad: lucky you, after 20 minutes of searching around in the exe I haven't found anything that could be malicious ;)
16:17 <+sadimusi> ellisvlad: you've worked around it, but do you know what the issue actually is?
16:17 < iBotPeaches> i feel bad for mojang, that tracker looks horrible
16:17 < iBotPeaches> 2k issues a day
16:17 < iBotPeaches> 1990 which are idiots
16:18 <+sadimusi> lets ping him then
16:19 <+sadimusi> Dinnerbone: are you aware that it's impossible to color individual parts of a chat message with the new json format?
16:19 < iBotPeaches> http://dinnerbone.com/mojira/crashes/MCX-777/ -> lol
16:19 <+sadimusi> ellisvlad: it really doesn't even use ssl?
16:19 < iBotPeaches> sadimusi: that was that problem I said to you a few days ago
16:19 < iBotPeaches> Never trust that JSON is incoming, should of caught that and failed silently
16:20 < mbaxter> iBotPeaches: Better have a tracker full of crap than no tracker \o/
16:21 < SpaceManiac> I was sad to hear server-side texture/resource packs are dead
16:21 < iBotPeaches> mbaxter: pretty sexy system to automatically pull stacks into an area
16:21 < mbaxter> A lot of people's attempts at using the new json system resulted in that client crash.
16:22 < ellisvlad> lol
16:22 < ellisvlad> I kinda hope they switch back to the old one...
16:23 < ellisvlad> or they could make a new packet called ChatFormatted or somthing
16:24 < iBotPeaches> most of those crashes are peopel sending old chat
16:24 < iBotPeaches> ex JSON string: §5Welcome to the server, SuperBower118§5!
16:25 < ellisvlad> yeah
16:27 < mbaxter> I'm hoping for a 1.6.2 with fixed serializer
16:28 < ellisvlad> or a json detector, so it can be optional
16:29 < Drainedsoul> I didn't report the bug, no
16:29 < mbaxter> proper support is all that's needed, and ignoring messages that aren't valid
16:31 < Drainedsoul> what's wrong with ellisvlad's indentation?  My objection is that he appears to be using VC++ :P
16:31 < ellisvlad> ;)
16:32 < ellisvlad> VC++ has nice debugging
16:32 <+sadimusi> Drainedsoul: there is a new indent after dllinit()
16:32 < Drainedsoul> VC++ has shitty C++ support.
16:32 < ellisvlad> I normally use Eclipse with G++
16:32 <+sadimusi> or is the dllInit() just indented by half the tab width?
16:32 < dx> dllInit uses four spaces
16:32 < dx> everything else uses tabs
16:33 < ellisvlad> xD
16:33 < dx> well, return 0 uses spaces too
16:33 <+sadimusi> o.O shouldn't every editor normalize this automatically?
16:33 <+sadimusi> (to spaces)
16:33 < ellisvlad> I think VS tries to do spaces, and I do tabs xD
16:33 < dx> every decent editor, maybe
16:34 < Drainedsoul> I would never use an editor that normalized my indentation to spaces
16:34 < dx> you have to use an editor that lets you configure to something consistent
16:34 < ellisvlad> There is a setting for it somewhere.... I just never bother :P
16:34 < ffmdr> does anyone have maven repo with paulscode soundsystem?
16:34 < dx> the choice of spaces vs tabs is irrelevant if it's consistent
16:35 < ellisvlad> unless you want to conserve a few bytes of disk space by using tabs ;D
16:35 <+sadimusi> I'm coding a lot of python and spaces are the norm there, but I guess tabs are ok too
16:35 <+sadimusi> just don't mix it
16:35 < ellisvlad> I remember pascal hates tabs -.-
16:35 < ellisvlad> that's why I hate pascal ;)
16:36 < ffmdr> why paulscode isn't in maven central?
16:36 < Yoshi2> I once accidently mixed tabs and spaces in python, it was a huge mistake
16:37 < dx> ffmdr: i can't think of anyone that does client modding building everything with maven
16:37 < Drainedsoul> I would consider using Python in general if there was a "Python with curly braces" edition
16:37 < ffmdr> dx: here am I
16:37 < dx> ffmdr: lol
16:37 < dx> ffmdr: anyone else*
16:38 < SpaceManiac> Drainedsoul: from __future__ import braces
16:38 < dx> SpaceManiac: :D
16:39 < Yoshi2> still, I don't miss the braces too much
16:39 < SinZ> I do
16:39 <+sadimusi> ellisvlad: I'm trying to get to the bottom of this, but I only own one account :/
16:39 < ffmdr> I've heard that minecraft is using gradle
16:39 < ffmdr> gradle sucks
16:39 < Yoshi2> what is gradle?
16:40 < dx> sadimusi: evidently this is a conspiracy to get us to give more money to mojang
16:40 < ffmdr> it's a shitty build manager 
16:40 <+sadimusi> dx: :D
16:40 < ellisvlad> But I have two accounts, and it doesn't work :P
16:40 < Yoshi2> hm, I see
16:40 <+sadimusi> ellisvlad: yes, and I'd like to find out why
16:40 < ellisvlad> Having to use my faker
16:41 < dx> sadimusi wants to debug it better
16:41 < Drainedsoul> what's the problem?
16:41 < ellisvlad> Well, I'm fine with it not working normally xD I'm actually quite proud of this faker :P
16:41 < dx> that 'faker' is not a solution for anything...
16:42 < ellisvlad> xD
16:42 < dx> and if the server is working in offline mode, it shouldn't even be needed
16:42 < ellisvlad> yeah that's true
16:42 < Drainedsoul> wot is the problem tho
16:42 < ellisvlad> basically
16:42 < ellisvlad>  http://puu.sh/3u63z.jpg
16:42 <+sadimusi> it's 20€ now? o.O
16:42 < ellisvlad> autologin is off
16:43 <+sadimusi> ah wait, I can steal the lastlogin from my flatmate
16:43 < ellisvlad> yet if I load up two clients on seperate accounts, I can't go on a server with the first client I logged in with
16:43 < dx> sadimusi: loling.
16:43 < dx> sadimusi: that's what the new launcher is supposed to prevent, right?
16:43 < ellisvlad> lolin also :P
16:44 <+sadimusi> dx: not at all
16:44 < Drainedsoul> hmm I don't have access to two accounts :T
16:44 <+sadimusi> dx: you can still just steal the profiles.json thingy
16:44 < Yoshi2> I've got two accounts, but only one is paid :/
16:44 <+sadimusi> you just have to use it before your target does
16:44 < dx> sadimusi: oh, but you won't get the password
16:44 <+sadimusi> no, but you don't need it
16:44 < dx> yeah
16:45 < ffmdr> ellisvlad: why did you blur session id? don't you trust us :D?
16:45 < dx> it's just a token that in theory could be invalidated if the real owner wants to
16:45 < ellisvlad> I have two...but I don't really want to give out the password lol
16:45 < dx> maybe you could share that token now!
16:45 < ellisvlad> idk actually lol
16:45 < Yoshi2> it's all theory
16:45 < dx> we're going to need more docs about this stuff in the wiki
16:46 < iBotPeaches> the bug report was marked: https://mojang.atlassian.net/browse/MC-21436
16:46 < Yoshi2> the new json chat also works in theory
16:46 < dx> yep
16:46 < dx> sucks that we have to find out now, after the release
16:47 < ellisvlad> lol
16:47 < dx> but the snapshots aren't very modder friendly
16:47 < Drainedsoul> imagine a world wherein Mojang released MSDN-style documentation
16:47 < dx> i have no idea if MSDN-style is a good or bad thing
16:48 < Drainedsoul> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms682453(v=vs.85).aspx here, decide for yourself :P
16:48 < ffmdr> is new chat broken client side ;/ ?
16:48 < ffmdr> are we stuck to white for all 1.6.1 time?
16:49 < Drainedsoul> well, you can just use old style chat
16:49 < iBotPeaches> just use old style, works fine
16:49 < Drainedsoul> if the "text" property of the root JSON object is just old style chat, works
16:49 < ffmdr> \o/
16:50 < dx> evidently § is superior
16:50 < Drainedsoul> I'm mad there no way to escape the section sign in chat :(
16:50 < dx>  is that seriously the only thing that annoys you about the § implementation?
16:50 < ellisvlad> xD
16:50 < Drainedsoul> it's the thing that annoys me the most
16:51 < Drainedsoul> I've written a regular expression engine in C++, text processing doesn't really annoy me anymore
16:51 < Drainedsoul> xD
16:51 < ellisvlad> at first I hated that all strings were unicode lol
16:51 < Yoshi2> just think of all the lawyers who tried to play minecraft
16:51 < Drainedsoul> how could you hate Unicode :(
16:51 < jast> fun fact: on German keyboards, shift+3 = §
16:51 < ellisvlad> it was a pain to use in C++
16:51 < ellisvlad> I like char* :(
16:51 < Drainedsoul> write your own Unicode string library
16:51 < Yoshi2> they couldn't use the § sign to talk about laws
16:51 < Drainedsoul> that's what I did
16:51 < ffmdr> btw after converting my texture pack to 1.6 I have no water/lava in it...is it because of no optifine?
16:51 < ellisvlad> I kinda did lol
16:52 < Yoshi2> jast: indeed, it's even printed on most if not all german keyboards
16:52 < iBotPeaches> shift+3 no way
16:52 < iBotPeaches> #
16:52 < Drainedsoul> I was sued once, couldn't find a lawyer, defended myself
16:52 < Drainedsoul> so much section sign
16:52 < ellisvlad> http://puu.sh/3u9ij.png
16:52 <+sadimusi> it's right under esc on my keyboard
16:52 <+sadimusi> no modifier key needed
16:53 < ellisvlad> easy ;) ...please don't stab me again :P
16:53 < Drainedsoul> wtf
16:53 < ellisvlad> That was I can use char* with one byte per character, and use \a as the weird simolean sign thing
16:54 < Drainedsoul> -_-
16:54 < ellisvlad> ;D
16:54 < Drainedsoul> Unicode doesn't involve limiting yourself to ASCII/Latin-1 and U+00A7
16:54 < ellisvlad> xD
16:54 < ellisvlad> for me it does lol
16:55 < Drainedsoul> I mean if your application isn't Unicode-aware, and you're dragging UCS-2 off the wire, you can't even confidently compare two strings for equality
16:55 < Drainedsoul> and you certainly can't compare ignoring case
16:55 < ellisvlad> Well, I can, but everything is ASCII
16:56 < Drainedsoul> yeah so you're not actually testing for equality, since equality comparisons aren't "equality comparisons after being lossy"
16:56 < Drainedsoul> trying to pack the BMP into one byte is intrinsically lossy
16:57 < ellisvlad> sure, but I'm only targetting an English/(English keyboard) audience for my server, so it is fine ;D
16:58 < Drainedsoul> that doesn't mean anything.  You use characters outside ASCII in English
16:58 < ellisvlad> which ones?
16:59 < Drainedsoul> résumé has U+00E9 in it, twice.  And U+00E9 is in Latin-1, but Unicode-aware applications are free to represent it equally as U+0065, U+0301
17:01 < Drainedsoul> naïve has U+00EF in it, also in Latin-1, but representable equally as U+0069, U+0308
17:03 < ellisvlad> I don't mind losing accents in words, resume and naive can be deduced by context without any special semivowels or accents ;)
17:03 < ellisvlad> ...*Assimilation not Semivowel lol
17:05 < Drainedsoul> if you're writing a server, it's not about what you do and don't mind, it's what your users don't mind
17:05 < Drainedsoul> what are they going to think when they type "résumé" and get "rsum" back
17:06 < ellisvlad> xD "rsum" Yeah I guess, but for now, my server is just for me and some friends, could change it in the future if I need to
17:08 < ellisvlad> tbh, this server I am making is incredibly loose xD I;m amazed it is still running at all xD
17:14 < dx> gotta admit that UCS-2 falls back nicely to latin1 most of the time
17:19 < Dinnerbone> <iBotPeaches> Never trust that JSON is incoming, should of caught that and failed silently
17:20 < Dinnerbone> iBotPeaches: you can crash the client in 10,000 different ways
17:20 < Dinnerbone> We aren't going to catch them and be nice
17:20 < iBotPeaches> :)
17:20 < SpaceManiac> oh, hi
17:20 < Dinnerbone> (Though for the record this *is* caught)
17:20 < Dinnerbone> (See the section where it said what json it was.)
17:20 <+sadimusi> that's fine, but what about the colors?
17:20 < Dinnerbone> (Or rather what the server sent, especting json)
17:21 < Dinnerbone> expecting*
17:21 < Dinnerbone> (But I agree with your "lol"; it's a great point on how proxies blindly accepting all versions hoping that there are no incompatibilities even though we explicitly say there are, is a bloody stupid system.)
17:24 < dx> you're blindly asserting that they are blindly accepting everything :D
17:25 < dx> (some of them do, of course)
17:25 < dx> also, colors
17:26 < ffmdr> btw after converting 1.5 texture pack with textureender I have no water/lava in 1.6...any ideas?
17:26 < dx> check json output?
17:32 < ffmdr> Skipped renaming misc/water.png - couldn't find it!
17:32 < ffmdr> hmm
17:33 < ffmdr> there are only custom_water_still.png in texturepack root (water/lava)
17:33 <+sadimusi> Dinnerbone: did you already have a look at https://mojang.atlassian.net/browse/MC-21436 ? chat colors really seem completely broken to us...
17:35 < ffmdr> and isn't minecraft supposed to use vanilla textures if it can't find it in resource pack?
17:36 < Dinnerbone> sadimusi: it's assigned to me, I will investigated it
17:36 < Dinnerbone> Please be patient :)
17:37 < dx> ffmdr: pretty sure that custom water is a mcpatcher/optifine feature, the vanilla converter won't support it obviously
17:37 <+sadimusi> sure, but please just tell us this is not intended behaviour
17:37 < Dinnerbone> It's not or it would be closed off as such
17:37 < ffmdr> dx: yeah so where is 1.6 water now?
17:37 <+sadimusi> good, we'll wait for a fix then
17:39 < mbaxter> Dinnerbone: Thanks for working on serializer/deserializer <3
17:40 < ffmdr> is minecraft 1.6 not using texture for water/lava?
17:42 < ffmdr> but more important question is why it isn't using vanilla water when there is no water texture in resourcepack?
17:43 < dx> http://dpaste.com/1284561/
17:43 < dx> HARDCORE REVERSE ENGINEERING
17:44 < dx> the .mcmeta is a json that specifies the animation frames
17:44 < ffmdr> yeah I found water_still xD 
17:44 < ffmdr> but it should use vanilla texture
17:44 < dx> why do you think it should
17:44 < Dinnerbone> ffmdr: what is being shown ingame?
17:44 < Dinnerbone> In place of lava or water
17:44 < Dinnerbone> Purple "missing texture" sprite?
17:44 < ffmdr> yeah
17:45 < ffmdr> missing texture sprite
17:45 < Dinnerbone> Pastebin console output
17:45 < ffmdr> sure, sec
17:45 < dx> Dinnerbone: console output of texture ender or the minecraft client?
17:45 < Dinnerbone> Client
17:46 < dx> also, these .mcmeta don't look like the published gist at all
17:46 < Dinnerbone> The gist was a collection of possible sections
17:46 < Dinnerbone> They wouldn't be put together
17:46 < Dinnerbone> Not all at the same time at least ;)
17:48 < dx> well, there's no .mcmeta with a "texture" section, and no "font" either
17:48 < Dinnerbone> There is in vanilla and if you had a file which needed it, textureender makes the texture section
17:48 < ffmdr> Dinnerbone: I redownloaded latest textureender and it looks like I have my water now
17:48 < Dinnerbone> Font is NYI as per the gist
17:48 < ffmdr> I mean converting again with latest
17:48 < Dinnerbone> Okay
17:48 < dx> Dinnerbone: gotcha.
17:48 < ffmdr> I guess it was fixed
17:49 < ffmdr> recently
17:49 < Dinnerbone> On that note, home time! ;D
17:50 < dx> later!
17:51 < ffmdr> oh wait
17:51 < ffmdr> it looks like applying resourcepack changed only gui textures
17:51 < ffmdr> ...
17:52 < ffmdr> that's even more weird
17:57 < ffmdr> ahh accidently converted old version, still no water with latest unsticher, pasting logs
17:58 < ffmdr> [CLIENT] [SEVERE] Unable to parse animation metadata from minecraft:textures/blocks/lava_flow.png: invalid frameindex 44
17:58 < ffmdr> same for water/lava flow/still
17:58 < ffmdr> and here is unsticher log http://pastebin.com/BapPYLET
18:00 < ffmdr> I'll try to copy custom_water_* to new 1.6 place 
18:04 < ffmdr> meh custom_water_* files was only in pre-1.5 version
18:23 <+sadimusi> ellisvlad: it looks like the client token must be unique, so just delete the launcher_profiles.json after you logged in with the first client
18:24 <+sadimusi> ellisvlad: making up my own client token didn't work, maybe there's a checksum or something
18:32 < ellisvlad> Hmm
18:32 <+sadimusi> it's a UUID, so I'm not really sure why making one up didn't work
18:40 < SpaceManiac> I've noticed I can't be logged in on one profile, then switch profiles and use the same account - I have to log out and back in
18:40 < SpaceManiac> Might be related.
19:30 < ellisvlad> Hmm...I've never noticed this before...
19:30 < ellisvlad> erm...
19:30 < TRocket> noticed what?
19:30 < ellisvlad> A graphical glitch? Can someone see if they can replicate this...
19:31 < ellisvlad> All blocks, including surface blocks flicker?
19:31 < ellisvlad> It looks like it might be an effect of a torch?
19:31 < ellisvlad> but all lighting is being effected
19:31 < Yoshi2> in the newest minecraft version?
19:31 < ellisvlad> and there are no torches
19:31 < ellisvlad> yes
19:32 < ellisvlad> You don't really notice it if you don't try to.. but I did :P
19:32 < ellisvlad> Anylne else see the same?
19:33 < ellisvlad> I'll record it..
19:34 < Yoshi2> damn, the new launcher is not exactly fast at downloading minecraft, this might take a bit
19:35 < SinZ> first run takes the longest
19:36 < SinZ> 1.6.2 would take little time, as it only would need the version.jar
19:37 < ellisvlad> http://youtu.be/4Ey8isd5YNk
19:37 < ellisvlad> kinda hard to see
19:38 < ellisvlad> Best seen at 39-50secs ish
19:38 < Yoshi2> "This video is private. Sorry about that. "
19:38 < SinZ> video is private
19:38 < ellisvlad> ah lol oops
19:38 < ellisvlad> try now :P
19:40 < SinZ> that looks like time of day changing
19:40 < ellisvlad> But it is quite random
19:40 < ellisvlad> and the sun was rising
19:42 < Yoshi2> does it happen again in the same place?
19:42 < ellisvlad> Yeah, it happens everywhere
19:44 < Yoshi2> I see
19:44 < Yoshi2> does it happen on your custom server, or in vanilla too?
19:56 < Yoshi2> I watched the floor a few times now after setting the time to 0, I didn't encounter the bug in vanilla singleplayer
20:04 <+sadimusi> ellisvlad: I filed a bug about these client token collisions: https://mojang.atlassian.net/browse/MCL-862
20:15 < dx> sadimusi: \o/
20:15 < dx> i like how mojang makes trackers for everything now
20:15 < dx> (let's not talk about feature requests now)
20:21 < Dinnerbone> sadimusi, I'm not sure what the issue here is
20:22 < Dinnerbone> With the same client token you are not able to log into different minecraft accounts?
20:22 < Dinnerbone> Or with the same token you can't log into the same account multiple times?
20:22 < dx> it's two clients, two accounts
20:23 < Dinnerbone> Two different client tokens in two different accounts?
20:23 < Dinnerbone> And it won't let that happen?
20:23 < Dinnerbone> If that's the case how is anybody logging in at all?
20:24 < dx> for the steps to reproduce it, he copied the launcher_profiles.json, so it's the same clientToken
20:25 < Dinnerbone> Okay
20:25 < Dinnerbone> With those exact steps this is working completely as intended...
20:25 < dx> but it's meant to happen when you use two accounts with the same launcher
20:25 < dx> to connect to two servers at the same time
20:27 < dx> i'm not sure why he went with two computers with the same launcher_profiles.json...
20:29 < Dinnerbone> Replied to the ticket
20:30 < Dinnerbone> Does that make sense or am I missing something? :D
20:31 < dx> well... it makes sense *and* you're missing something :D
20:31 < dx> UI
20:31 < dx> damn enter
20:31 < dx> *UUID collisions are indeed extremely unlikely, so much that people pretend those actually don't exist, and i'm fine with pretending that
20:32 < dx> the problem here is that someone with two accounts can't use the same launcher twice for each of those accounts
20:32 < dx> because that same launcher has the same clientToken, apparently.
20:32 < Dinnerbone> They sure can
20:32 < Dinnerbone> The same client token can be used to log into 100 different accounts
20:32 < Dinnerbone> Just, and this is the important part, not the same account twice.
20:33 < dx> as in, not the same mojang account?
20:33 < Dinnerbone> They can be in the same mojang account just different minecraft attached to it
20:33 < Dinnerbone> (Right now that's 1:1 but we will be dropping that restriction very very soon)
20:34 < dx> wait, that's right, these two usernames can't be in the same mojang account... derp me.
20:34 < Dinnerbone> The client token '1' can be logged into: Dinnerbone, Djinnibone, dx, xd, notch, herobrine, etc all at the same time
20:34 < Dinnerbone> Whether they are all in the same mojang account or mixed or all different
20:34 < Dinnerbone> But it cannot be logged into the same one more than once
20:34 < Dinnerbone> The latter invalidates the former
20:35 < Dinnerbone> And this is why we're even more fine than usual with pretending that UUIDs won't conflict
20:35 < dx> well, logging in a second client using the same token/launcher seems to invalidate the session of the first one to log in to multiplayer
20:35 < Dinnerbone> Because it's incredibly unlikely that the same UUID will generate twice; much less so that they will generate twice *for the same person*
20:35 < dx> using different accounts
20:35 < dx> that's definitely not as intended
20:35 < Dinnerbone> Using the same client token?
20:35 < dx> yes
20:35 < Dinnerbone> See #4 in my comment
20:36 < dx> what 'tokens' are invalidated? the clientToken UUID gets invalidated too?
20:36 < Dinnerbone> Client token never gets invalidated, only the access token
20:37 < Dinnerbone> When the second launcher logs in, it sends it to the server in exchange for a new one back
20:37 < Dinnerbone> This logs out the first client which still has the old (now invalid) access token
20:38 < dx> so wait.. if a second launcher invalidates the access token of the first one always, how is one supposed to log in to two different accounts?
20:38 < ffmdr>  [CLIENT] [SEVERE] Unable to parse animation metadata from minecraft:textures/blocks/lava_flow.png: invalid frameindex 44 + http://pastebin.com/BapPYLET
20:38 < ffmdr> Dinnerbone, could you look?
20:38 < Dinnerbone> ffmdr, how many frames do you have in lava_flow?
20:39 < Dinnerbone> imgur it
20:39 < Dinnerbone> dx, in this scenario you have a few things going wrong
20:39 < Dinnerbone> 1 is that you're now creating two launchers with the same client token. I need to make this harder to do somehow
20:39 < Dinnerbone> Because it's creating crap like this
20:40 < dx> it's not about two launchers, it's about reusing the same one
20:40 < Dinnerbone> 2 is that at the moment of the copy, both launchers have the same access token which at that time is valid
20:40 < ffmdr> Dinerbone: there are four errors lava/water flow/still and the texturepack is defscape from minecraft forums
20:40 < Dinnerbone> As soon as one launcher uses the token, it gets invalidated and the one which didn't use it gets logged out
20:40 < ellisvlad> Hmm, Hi Dinnerbone, the problem was that I had two clients logged in as seperate accounts but on the same computer, (sharing teh same .minecraft) The second account login invalides the first one, even though the account is different
20:40 < ellisvlad> yeah, that
20:41 < Dinnerbone> The second launcher logged into the same account even if but for a brief period of time
20:41 < Dinnerbone> Or did you change the json to select the other account?
20:41 < Dinnerbone> (If you did it through the launcher; it would have started in the first account, using up the token, before you switched to a new one)
20:42 < ellisvlad> I only turned off auto-login and typed the login manually
20:42 < ellisvlad> for both accounts
20:42 < Dinnerbone> Can you go draw up requests to reproduce this to the login server because I still don't see the issue here :D It's all WAI as far as I see!
20:43  * dx pokes sadimusi again
20:43 < ellisvlad> http://puu.sh/3u63z.jpg was this morning
20:43 < Dinnerbone> /authorize clientToken:1 username:aaa => accessToken AAA
20:43 < Dinnerbone> /authorize clientToken:1 username:bbb => accessToken BBB
20:44 < Dinnerbone> AAA and BBB should both be valid
20:44 < dx> huh the windows version of the launcher looks much less ugly
20:44 < Dinnerbone> /authorize clientToken:1 username:aaa => accessToken CCC
20:44 < Dinnerbone> AAA is invalid, BBB and CCC are valid
20:45 < Dinnerbone> /refresh clientToken:1 accessToken:BBB => accessToken DDD
20:45 < Dinnerbone> AAA and BBB are invalid, CCC and DDD are valid
20:45 < Dinnerbone> (authorize should be authenticate, dammit! Pretend I said authenticate :D)
20:45 < ellisvlad> lol
20:46 < ffmdr> Dinnerbone: here is lava_flow http://imgur.com/o3XqZxp, texture pack is 64x and animation is from 0 to 44
20:46 < Dinnerbone> You mean 0 to 43?
20:46 < Dinnerbone> There is no frame 44 there
20:47 < ffmdr> well .txt file contains 0 to 44
20:47 < ffmdr> in mcmeta there are also 0 to 44
20:47 < Dinnerbone> And that's why it's complaining
20:47 < Dinnerbone> It's wrong
20:47 < Dinnerbone> Whoever made it did a typo :)
20:47 < ffmdr> is mcmeta counting from 1?
20:47 < dx> the .txt file is wrong
20:47 < Dinnerbone> 2816 (height) / 64 (width) == 44. 44 frames is 0,1,2,3...40,41,42,43
20:47 < ffmdr> right
20:47 < Dinnerbone> mcmeta or txt frames always start at 0 and there was never a frame 44 in this image
20:48 < dx> the mcmeta is just a result of translating it
20:48 < Dinnerbone> Previously we'd ignore this
20:48 < Dinnerbone> But now we let you know that it's wrong
20:50 < dx> welp, i think we'll have to wait for sadimusi to get a proper http request flow debug
20:52 < ellisvlad> OK, I've recorded a thing for the logging in to two accounts thing
20:53 < ellisvlad> Leme just render and upload, fraps likes to give nice and bulky files -.-
20:54 < Yoshi2> before I had Fraps, I had to use Hypercam2 for recording
20:54 < Yoshi2> THAT created nice and bulky files
20:55 < Yoshi2> Fraps feels like a blessing because one minute of 1920x1080 footage is only 1gb
20:55 < ellisvlad> only ;)
20:55 < Dinnerbone> Pick a better codec!
20:55 < ffmdr> Dinnerbone: thanks my water/lava are back but here comes another problem, after restarting game with this texturepacks fonts are corrupted (let me do ss)
20:55 < Yoshi2> as opposed to 2gb for one minute of 640x480 footage in HC2
20:55 < ellisvlad> x264 is where it is at ;)
20:56 < Yoshi2> I like my footage lossless, thank you :)
20:56 < ffmdr> http://screencloud.net/v/cmoW
20:57 < ellisvlad> nice
20:57 < ffmdr> when starting game with vanilla textures and then changing texturepacks, fonts are fine
20:57 < ellisvlad> shift all the fonts to the right slightly :P
20:58 < ellisvlad> http://youtu.be/1D5y23JI3yE
20:59  * dx just started mc 1.6 for the first time with this window manager
21:00 < dx> and.. holy shit all the bugs are gone
21:00 < ffmdr> what kind of window manager is 'this'
21:00 < dx> X11 non-reparenting tiling window manager
21:01 < ffmdr> no I mean name lol
21:01 < dx> lol
21:01 < dx> http://www.qtile.org/
21:01 < dx> but yeah, non-reparenting window managers always had issues with java
21:03 < ffmdr> compositing in window managers always make camera moving in minecraft laggy more or less
21:04 < dx> isn't that normal because of the way indirect rendering works?
21:05 < ffmdr> normal would be super smooth like with disabled compositing 
21:05 < dx> yes, and no compositing means direct rendering, which means there's not a single process catching every frame
21:06 < dx> but i might be talking out of my ass here
21:06 < dx> you should confirm with other opengl apps (glxgears doesn't count)
21:07 < ffmdr> btw newest lwjgl is having really _annoying_ bug on linux, on game start/off it is switching my refresh rate to 50hz...
21:07 < ffmdr> I can't replace lwjgl that easy now as it is unpacking natives every time -_-
21:08 < Dinnerbone> ffmdr, which version are you trying to change it to?
21:08 < ffmdr> Dinnerbone: I am trying to use latest git version with xrandr fix
21:09 < Dinnerbone> Make a new version on disk temporarily
21:09 < Dinnerbone> Tell it to use that custom lwjgl you're making and done
21:10 < ffmdr> can I point library in profile to filesystem or it will always  download from s3?
21:10 < Dinnerbone> It'll fallback to filesystem
21:10 < ffmdr> oh
21:10 < ffmdr> cool
21:11 < Dinnerbone> Playing offline will be quite impossible otherwise :D
21:12 < ffmdr> I am not exactly sure if https://github.com/tfg13/lwjgl/commit/ad78b69d3 fixed all problems, but deleting xrandr binary makes it not switch my refresh rate to 50hz...
21:14 < ffmdr> Dinnerbone: after restarting game with this texturepack fonts are corrupted - http://screencloud.net/v/cmoW - could you look into this?
21:14 < ffmdr> fonts aren't corrupted when starting game with vanilla textures and then switching to converted defscape
21:15 < Dinnerbone> https://mojang.atlassian.net/browse/MC-17673
21:16 < ffmdr> oh
21:16 < ffmdr> "not a bug" -_-
21:17 < Dinnerbone> "Fixed for 1.6.2"
21:18 < ffmdr> heh 113 duplicates
21:19 < ffmdr> is there a release date for 1.6.2 yet?
21:19 < ffmdr> if not I hope optifine will fix it in the meantime 
22:37 <+sadimusi> dx, Dinnerbone: sorry, I was afk for a while
22:38 <+sadimusi> Dinnerbone: I understand if starting too clients on the same computer is not a use case you want to support, I'm only talking about collisions
22:38 < Dinnerbone> Aye but collisions will only matter for the same clienttoken+minecraft user
22:38 < Dinnerbone> See my text from earlier
22:38 <+sadimusi> no
22:38 <+sadimusi> I was always trying it with two different accounts
22:39 < Dinnerbone> Try it with the api please and rule out user error + launcher errors
22:39 < dx> sadimusi: i don't think he said that's an use case they won't support
22:39 < Dinnerbone> <Dinnerbone> /authorize clientToken:1 username:aaa => accessToken AAA
22:39 < Dinnerbone> <Dinnerbone> /authorize clientToken:1 username:bbb => accessToken BBB
22:39 < Dinnerbone> <Dinnerbone> AAA and BBB should both be valid
22:41 < Dinnerbone> (Replace authorize with authenticate, typos!)
23:04 <+sadimusi> Dinnerbone: I'm still pretty sure AAA isn't valid anymore
23:04 <+sadimusi> Dinnerbone: tried it completely with curl this time
23:05 < Dinnerbone> It should be, if not that's the bug
23:05 < Dinnerbone> This was designed to let you have multiple accounts per client token
23:05 < Dinnerbone> That's how it worked at design, at development and in testing
23:05 < Dinnerbone> Even in production! So if it's broken that's a recent thing
23:05 <+sadimusi> alright, I'll add a comment to the report
23:06 < Dinnerbone> Please include a copy of your requests+responses from server
23:06 <+sadimusi> I'll do that
23:20 <+sadimusi> I added the comment and noticed that one of the accounts I was testing with wasn't yet migrated
23:21 <+sadimusi> but I don't think that has anything to do with it
23:22 < Dinnerbone> sadimusi, uh
23:22 < Dinnerbone> Drop the username part of your validates
23:22 < Dinnerbone> And what do you get?
23:22 <+sadimusi> I had no idea how to do the validate requests...
23:23 < Dinnerbone> Validate takes an accesstoken, possibly an optional client token (can't remember), and an optional profile:{id,name}
23:24 <+sadimusi> dropping the username doesn't change anything
23:25 < Dinnerbone> Okay thanks
23:33 < ffmdr> btw it would be cool to have packet length header in 1.7 so you can skip it without implementing every packet Dinnerbone
23:34 < dexter0> oh not this again
23:34 < ffmdr> not what? :D
23:34 < dx> lol
23:34 < dexter0> packet length headers
23:34 < ffmdr> what's wrong with them?
23:34 < dx> "again"? we never asked dinnerbro about it :D
23:35 < dx> just kidding, i don't really expect a different opinion.
23:35 <+sadimusi> I think at this point asking for length headers counts as harassing mojang employees :P
23:35 < ffmdr> haha
23:36 < ffmdr> for example BungeeCord is using special skip tables to skip packets it doesn't care about D:
23:38 < ffmdr> dexter0: is it a common wish?
23:38 < Dinnerbone> 1.6 and the dozens of different crashes we're getting from "I joined a server (that just so happened to be modded and 1.5) in 1.6 and it broke pls fix mojang" is a perfect example of why you guys shouldn't be screwing with the protocol if you can't parse it
23:40 < mbaxter> Why do you crash the client on bad packet instead of disconnect from server?
23:41 < Dinnerbone> Not easy to do
23:41 < mbaxter> Good reason, thanks.
23:41 < dexter0> because it's not really their problem to code defensively
23:41 < Dinnerbone> ^ this too
23:41 < Dinnerbone> We'd have to go out of our way a lot
23:41 < Dinnerbone> There's so many ways you can crash clients it's unbelievable
23:41 < Dinnerbone> And not all of them are fixable
23:42 < ffmdr> the number of ways you can crash the client is over 9000
23:42 < mbaxter> You mean pokemon catching doesn't solve everything? :P
23:42 < Dinnerbone> Spam client bunch of "allocate 10GB of memory for this big byte array"
23:42 < Dinnerbone> Crash and we can't trace it back
23:43 < Dinnerbone> I'd much rather that servers don't claim to support x when they actually can't support x
23:43 < Dinnerbone> But apparently that's too much :(
23:43 < mbaxter> Far too much :P
23:43 < ffmdr> yeah can't it be solved like "received string length longer than maximum allowed"? :P
23:45 < dx> dammit i'm stuck playing some browser game called "a dark room"
23:45 < dx> i feel that i have someone to blame who is here, but i'm not sure who it is
23:46 < Dinnerbone> ffmdr, no not at all
23:46 < Dinnerbone> Our protocol changes, we explicitly make it stop things that don't support the protocol from talking to eachother
23:46 < Dinnerbone> Meanwhile they go out of their way to ignore this and use an old protocol, old versions of packets the client doesn't understand
23:46 < Dinnerbone> And bam crash
23:47 < Dinnerbone> Take chat packet from 1.5->1.6
23:47 < Dinnerbone> Server->client it changed
23:47 < dx> Dinnerbone: and you think that letting packets validate their definition against the length is going to make things worse?
23:47 < Dinnerbone> If you ignored all packets other than this
23:47 < Dinnerbone> Based on length or magic or anything
23:48 < Dinnerbone> You're still going to bloody crash because you're sending the wrong format of data!
23:48 < dx> of course
23:48 < ffmdr> ok let's just write "skip tables" like md_5
23:48 < dx> it's not going to prevent people from doing stupid stuff, but i don't see why it would make it worse
23:49 < Dinnerbone> It isn't going to make it worse but it also isn't going to make it better
23:49 < dx> i think we said the same thing
23:50 < dx> well, different emphasis, of course
23:50 < mbaxter> "Let's make our data output negligibly larger to help people who can't be bothered to support our protocol!"
23:50 < mbaxter> Total win win
23:51 < dx> it's not about not being bothered to code it, it's about making the protocol less expensive to parse when reading 99% of the traffic isn't needed
23:53 < Dinnerbone> It doesn't give us any gain, it possibly gives you guys some gain, it gives us drawbacks and it possibly gives you drawbacks
23:53 < Dinnerbone> It just isn't worth adding at this point
23:53 < dx> i'm aware that it gives you no gain, but i'm interested in hearing these drawbacks for you
23:53 < Dinnerbone> Not to mention our networking code would have to be rewritten to figure out how to support this but that's besides the point
23:55 < dx> i'd love to say that it's just 10 lines like some diff showed, but i'd rather not make that kind of comment without having tested that code extensively myself
23:56 < Dinnerbone> We could of course write to a buffer and then length + copy back over
23:57 < dx> yep that's exactly what the diff did
23:57 < Dinnerbone> But that's just expensive
23:57 < dx> is it?
23:57 < Dinnerbone> Considering how bloody verbose the protocol is, yes it is
23:57 < mbaxter> Dinnerbone: Your implementation could just skip the length header :D
23:57 < Dinnerbone> mbaxter, this would be to send the length header
23:58 < mbaxter> oh
23:58 < ffmdr> it would be cool seeing minecraft using Netty some time in the future...not suggesting anything 
23:58 < mbaxter> riiiiight. to receive you have to send :P
23:58 < dx> ffmdr: yeah don't suggest netty (yet)
23:58 < Dinnerbone> For every packet, write packet to a buffer and then send the length of this buffer and then the contents of the buffer and rewind the buffer for next use
23:58 < ffmdr> dx: that's why I added "not suggesting anything" at end of the message! :P
23:58 < dx> ffmdr: :D
23:59 < clonejo1> btw, why JSON and not msgpack?
23:59 < ffmdr> json here and json there
23:59  * Dinnerbone groans and goes to sleep
23:59 < dx> any "why JSON and not X" can be answered as "we already have json, it works, and we don't need to write extensive unit tests for it"
23:59 < dexter0> lol
23:59 < dx> Dinnerbone: don't worry, covered this one for you
--- Day changed jeu. juil. 04 2013
00:00 < iBotPeaches> i do love json, once nested colors work, it'll be pretty neat
00:00 < clonejo1> msgpack is pretty much JSON, but binary -> smaller
00:00 < dx> i dislike json but i'm at the 'resignation' stage
00:01 < Dinnerbone> Binary structure would be good if we were sending binary data
00:01 < Dinnerbone> We're sending plain text, the relative size of the json syntax is very minor
00:02 < Dinnerbone> If we cared to compress it, we'd probably get smaller with json+plaintext than with binary+plaintext
00:02 < Dinnerbone> But that's just a guess
00:02 < dav1d> utf-8!
00:02 < ffmdr> utf-16 
00:02 < clonejo1> in case someone is interested: http://msgpack.org/
00:02 < dx> utf-128
00:02 < iBotPeaches> xml
00:02 < Dinnerbone> xml it is, done.
00:02 < Dinnerbone> 1.6.2
00:03 < ffmdr> not sure if a joke
00:03 < Dinnerbone> We'll also send schema every 5 seconds for validation
00:03 < iBotPeaches> :)
00:03 < Dinnerbone> :D
00:03 < Dinnerbone> Ok sleeps for real
00:03  * Dinnerbone waddles off
00:03 < ffmdr> 1.6.2 diff: added new packet 0x6c ValidateXMLSchema send every 5 seconds
00:34 < barneygale> Hey Dinnerbone, do you have time to answer one more question about json chat? What is going to happen/has happened to coloured text on signs, motds, and player names?
00:34 < barneygale> Apologies if that's already been answered elsewhere
00:37 <+md_5> btw with Netty (or any non blocking IO) length headers is trivial
00:37 <+md_5> to say the least
00:41 < ffmdr> yeah they are but isn't that one more buffer on the way? not saying it would significantly decrease performance but D: @md_5
00:42 <+md_5> ffmdr not really, you can just start writing 4 bytes into the buffer
00:42 <+md_5> and then set the first 4 bytes based on how many bytes you wrote in
00:43 <+md_5> thats literally 4 byte sets and 2 integer comparions
00:43 <+md_5> ie: NOTHING
00:44 <+md_5> soo in other news, just got a profile from some guy: com.sun.crypto.provider.CipherFeedback.encrypt(byte[], int, int, byte[], int) is using 16% of all Bungee's CPU time at approx 1k players
00:44 <+md_5> and I'm only encrypting client<->bungee traffic
00:45 < ffmdr> considering that bungee is only passing packets thats not much of a %
00:45 <+md_5> I might see if bouncycastle fares any better
00:45 < ffmdr> no bouncy again D:
00:46 < ffmdr> I secretly hope it won't
00:47 <+md_5> ffmdr you do realise 15% is like most of a cpu core?
00:47 < barneygale> isn't encryption optional?
00:47 <+md_5> barneygale in offline mode
00:47 < barneygale> ah
00:47 <+md_5> and when not using Minecraftforge
00:48 < ffmdr> md_5: ok and it is using 84% for passing packets
00:48 <+sadimusi> barneygale: all those things are not officially supported and gr*m mentioned they might get removed
00:49 <+md_5> it does more than parse packets :c
00:49 <+md_5> also he used the profiler wrong so that added 50% cpu usage :c
00:49 < ffmdr> :C
00:50 < ffmdr> it would be funny to see bungee impl in node.js and its performance
00:50 <+md_5> ffmdr 3% of bungee is packet parsing in this snapshot
00:50 <+md_5> ffmdr uh it would suck balls
00:50 < ffmdr> md_5: maybe
00:51 < ffmdr> md_5: what is exactly packet parsing...do you mean readByte calls and storing them in class?
00:51 <+md_5> combination of skipping bytes and reading results into packet classes
00:52 < ffmdr> md_5: better look at  remaining 81%
00:52 <+md_5> ffmdr its literally nothing, and 52% of it was profiler overhead :c
00:53 < barneygale> sadimusi: I've heard that. I was just wondering if that would be confirmed. MOTDs I can live without, but coloured signs and player names are in wide use. Usually mojang wouldn't remove a well-used bug without reintroducing it as an actual feature (e.g. booster rails)
00:53 <+md_5> disabling the resource leak detector will help a bit thougj
00:54 < barneygale> Obviously it's not the end of the world if they're removed, I was just wondering if Dinnerbone knew one way or the other yet
00:55 < ffmdr> eeh every minecraft release it is same story...render rewrites, render optimizations but it is not playable without optifine :C
00:55 < dexter0> uh, rewriting the renderer is a very long process
00:56 < ffmdr> yeah yeah yeah
01:29 < Drainedsoul> "because it's not really their problem to code defensively" I'm pretty sure coding best practices dictate that you always treat everything off the wire as though it's liable to be total garbage
01:33 < dexter0> perhaps, but why should they care that their client crashed because a server they not control sent bogus data?
01:42 < Drainedsoul> because when a program crashes the first thing most people do is blame the people who made the program.  An informative error message like "the server sent us bullshit data" and a disconnect would be a lot better
01:43 < Drainedsoul> Programs shouldn't crash parsing data.  That's what sanity checking is for.
01:43 < dexter0> And they have decided that is not a significant enough motivator for them to add said sanity checking.
01:44 < Drainedsoul> which is their prerogative, obviously, but that doesn't make it good practice or redeeming at all.
01:44 < Drainedsoul> The fact that the sanity checking would have to be added is damning enough
01:46 < dexter0> The protocol version is supposed to prevent all this in the first place and it does unless ppl screw around with their clients and servers.
01:46 < Drainedsoul> that doesn't matter.  It comes off the wire, it can be anything.  If Chrome crashed on invalid HTTP headers, would you consider that a bug in Chrome or not?
01:47 < dexter0> very very different situation.  Web browsers are designed to accept arbitrary data and make the best sense of it they can
01:47 < dexter0> Minecraft is not a web browser.
01:47 < Drainedsoul> no, web browsers are designed to accept HTTP responses
01:50 < dexter0> sure, but they must be able to deal with servers sending back bogus data because the user could navigate to a website hosted on a web server that likes to send back bogus data instead of http responses.
01:50 < dexter0> Minecraft has the luxury of controlling both the client & server
01:50 < Drainedsoul> unless it's an internal network you can never assume you have that luxury
01:51 < dexter0> it is designed with that assumption, which is perfectly reasonable
01:51 < dexter0> the assumption being it controls the client & server
01:52 < dexter0> Remember, Mojang does not support modding officially.
01:52 < Drainedsoul> that's not that reasonable because it violates the principle of least astonishment.
01:53 < Drainedsoul> you have to remember that the user does not necessarily control or know anything about the server.  SO if they're unknowingly connecting to a bogus, modded server that crashes their client, what are they supposed to think, not being technical?
01:53 < dexter0> of course they think it is Mojang's fault
01:53 < Drainedsoul> given that they've been conditioned to believe that server problems just cause errors.  Web browsers, all well-designed network protocol agents do this
01:53 < Drainedsoul> there you go
01:53 < Drainedsoul> violation of the principle of least astonishment
01:56 < barneygale> Drainedsoul: you're conflating web browsers with minecraft
01:57 < barneygale> When you're writing an http client or server, you need to be complaint as possible, because the data you've received can come from a huge array of different software
01:57 < barneygale> But with minecraft there is only one official client, and one official server
01:58 < barneygale> So a big driving factor for being forgiving with data is removed
02:03 < Drainedsoul> handling malformed data isn't a matter of compliance
02:03 < Drainedsoul> the HTTP protocol is well-defined
02:03 < Drainedsoul> but that doesn't mean that Chrome crashes when it receives garbage
02:03 < dexter0> because Chrome was designed with that use case.
02:03 < barneygale> Yeah
02:04 < Drainedsoul> because it's a properly designed network protocol user agent
02:04 < barneygale> That's exactly my point
02:05 < barneygale> I haven't really given a shit about documenting the protocol mark2 uses to talk between client and wrapper, because it's only used internally - it's not meant to be seen or used by anyone
02:05 < barneygale> Though a better API is on the way..
02:13 <+md_5> the MC client has sanity checking
02:13 <+md_5> but it crashes itself when a check fails
08:32 <+md_5> why is Minecraft using an outdated gson from 2012 when the newest one is from this may?
08:32 <+md_5> same with guava and basically everything :|
08:35 < SpaceManiac> stability, I guess
08:37 < dx> you should check if they are the versions used in the last release of RHEL
08:37 < dx> that's THE definition of stability
08:38 <+sadimusi> the last few updates of gson were just bug fixes, so stability is not an argument
08:38 <+sadimusi> e.g. "Fixes for possible DoS attack due to poor String hashing"
08:38 < dx> ...well interesting
08:39 <+sadimusi> md_5: what is the exact version?
08:39 <+md_5> sadimusi I'm making a maven pom with comments about each version now,
08:40 <+md_5> eg gson 2.2.2 as opposed to 2.2.4
08:40 <+md_5> argo is like 10 releases behind :|
08:40 <+md_5> 2..25 -> 3.7
08:40 <+md_5> I cant find the commons-io version they are using in maven central
08:40 <+sadimusi> that's one of the things I dislike about the java ecosystem
08:41 <+md_5> ah got it, maven central and its buggy version comparator
08:42 <+md_5> now just to find paulscode sound system somewhere
08:42 <+sadimusi> in python (and every other language with a half-decent packet manager) you can update all your libraries and every package will use it, which can of course lead to incompatibilities...
08:43 <+md_5> yeah, java has that, its called amven
08:43 <+md_5> maven
08:43 <+sadimusi> that's not really targeted at users...
08:44 <+md_5> users arent supposed to touch depends
08:44 <+md_5> imo
08:44 <+sadimusi> well, bundling the libraries with your code is at least not half as bad as bundling a jre as apple suggests
08:52 <+md_5> might poke one of the mojangstas and see if they have an internal maven repo later, this is the pom I have so far and it basically works (the old 1.5 pom was easy since everything was in the ar)
08:52 <+md_5> http://paste.md-5.net/pafimijovo.xml
08:59 <+md_5> so
08:59 <+md_5> Minecraft has 78 occurances of new Random()
09:00  * md_5 thinks singleton threadlocal would be a good idea
09:00 <+sadimusi> really Random() or Random(some kind of seed) ?
09:02 <+md_5> sadimusi no, empty random, no special seed
09:02 <+md_5> new Random() as is
09:02 <+sadimusi> then I completely agree
09:02 <+md_5> there are 42 randoms that take a seed sadimusi 
09:02 <+md_5> and 78 which dont
09:50 < Grum> <+md_5> [10:52:31] might poke one of the mojangstas and see if they have an internal maven repo later, this is the pom I have so far and it basically works (the old 1.5 pom was easy since everything was in the ar) <-- to do what?
09:50 < Grum> also we do not have an internal maven repo we use
09:53 <+md_5> Grum where do you get paulscode from?
09:53 <+md_5> its not *anywhere*
09:53 < Grum> indeed, custom build
09:53 < Grum> i tried to get the author to make the artifacts, i offered to do it for him, he didn't give a rats ass
09:54 <+md_5> Grum also see that pastebin, 4 out of the 10 depends are outdated :3
09:54 < Grum> is there any problem with them being outdated?
09:54 <+ammar2> Grum: I think he's kinda annoyed at you guys :D http://www.paulscode.com/forum/index.php?topic=34.0
09:55 < Grum> LOL
09:55 < Grum> you know what the fun part is
09:55 < Grum> HE spits that shit to stdout
09:55 < Grum> on every load/shutdown of his fucking system
09:55 < Grum> which btw is .... horrible
09:56 < Grum> he just randomly sleep()'s at places
09:56 <+md_5> because your amazing new launcher loves showing stdout to the world
09:56 < Grum> its good for dev, not for consumers
09:56 < Grum> but in either case, working first, pretty later
09:57 <+sadimusi> Grum: "Fixes for possible DoS attack due to poor String hashing" sounds like a reason to update gson ;)
09:57 < Grum> sadimusi: not really, we use nothing that depends on that
09:58 <+sadimusi> since the server never has to parse json I guess you're right
09:58 <+sadimusi> there's still no reason _not_ to update though
09:58 < Grum> we parse it by hand
09:59 < Grum> other than forcing people to download stuff?
09:59 < Grum> there is no reason to do the update you mean
09:59 <+sadimusi> afaik the launcher doesn't download gson separately
10:00 < Grum> yes it does
10:00 <+sadimusi> ok, I guess you save everyone a few seconds then
10:00 < Grum> and a hundreds of gb of data
10:01 < Grum> -"a "
10:02 <+sadimusi> not really, even if everybody who bought minecraft downloads it you're only at a few gb
10:02 <+sadimusi> nope, you were right
10:02 <+ammar2> may as well do it when you push out a minecraft update, since they're already downloading stuff then anyway
10:02 <+sadimusi> (miscounted a few zeros)
10:03 <+sadimusi> the new launcher makes small modifications really a pita :/
10:03 < Grum> why?
10:04 <+sadimusi> it always overwrites the jar with the contents of the lzdm thingy and refuses to start without it
10:04 <+sadimusi> I guess writing a little jar to start launch.jar directly wouldn't be that hard though
10:05 < Grum> 189kb * 11million = 2TB of data.
10:05 < Grum> you need to learn how to math sir
10:05 <+sadimusi> like I said, forgot to add a few zeros
10:05 < Grum> yeah just 'so we have the latest version'
10:06 < Grum> i'm not really sure what the problem is?
10:06 < Grum> what do you want to change?
10:06 <+sadimusi> it doesn't really matter but 2TB also isn't that much data
10:06 < Grum> what would you even *WANT* to change?
10:06 < Grum> sure, dat is 100% free
10:06 <+md_5> thats like 130 bucks
10:06 < Grum> 130 bucks saved
10:06 < Grum> i can work for another 2hours!
10:06 <+md_5> ._.
10:06 <+ammar2> md_5: they're an indie company remember, every dollar counts.
10:06 <+md_5> oh yes
10:07 <+md_5> each and everyone one of those hundreds of millions
10:07 < Grum> md_5: billions in sweden man
10:07 <+sadimusi> I really couldn't handle the swedish currency when I was over there
10:08 < Grum> its not that complex O.o
10:08 <+sadimusi> the conversion is just too weird
10:08 <+sadimusi> it's like 1:7 for  me
10:08 < Grum> 1:8.5 for euros
10:08 < Grum> trivial enough
10:09 < Grum> 'roughly *10 + 10%'
10:09 <+sadimusi> so you calculate with 1:10 and everything appears cheaper than it is :P
10:09 < Grum> and also is ~15% more expensive here anyways :)
10:10 < Grum> though WAY less taxes
10:10 <+sadimusi> really? I always thought sweden had extremely high taxes
10:10 < Grum> not compared to the netherlands for example
10:10 <+md_5> I have really bad packet loss at this time, and due to all of Minecrafts packets im being killed in Dup acks'
10:10 <+md_5> :(
10:10 < Grum> and you get jack shit for it in the netherlands :p
10:10 <+md_5> 46.5% here
10:10 <+md_5> come at me
10:11 < Grum> md_5: so if you earn 100k you pay 46.5k taxes?
10:11 < Grum> because you are really forgetting the tax-scale/bands
10:11 <+md_5> Grum well no, when you earn over 170k or whatever
10:11 <+md_5> you pay that
10:11 < Grum> yeah
10:11 < Grum> ....
10:11 < Grum> so that number is utter bs
10:11 < Grum> the highest bracket here is 60%
10:11 <+sadimusi> how about vat?
10:11 < Grum> in netherlands 55%
10:12 < Grum> 25% VAT @ sweden; 21% nl iric
10:12 < Grum> *iirc
10:12 <+sadimusi> o.O
10:12 <+sadimusi> 8% here :)
10:12 <+sadimusi> 2.5% for food
10:12 < Grum> 25/6% iirc here 
10:12 < Grum> i dont care
10:12 <+md_5> $80,001 – $180,000 	$17,547 plus 37c for each $1 over $80,000 	21.9 – 30.3%
10:12 < Grum> yeah
10:12 < Grum> so you pay less than 30% when you earn 80k
10:13 <+md_5> yeah but then the next one
10:13 <+md_5> $180,001 and over 	$58,118 plus 45c for each $1 over $180,000
10:13 < Grum> and probably until you earn ~120k you pay less than 30% over the total amount
10:13 <+md_5> which basically means a tad under 45%
10:13 < Grum> yes, for the amount *OVER* ...
10:13 < Grum> you still pay the low taxes for the rest of the amount
10:15 < dx> so i was reading the conversation about updating gson, and suddenly you guys start talking about this currency thing
10:15 < dx> i wat'd
10:16 < Grum> updating gson, would be ~25TB worth of useless download
10:16 < Grum> totally worth it!
10:17 < dx> no comment.
10:17 < AlphaBlend> wow -_-
10:17 < AlphaBlend> git 1.8.3 had a stupid bug
10:17 < Grum> anyhow, md_5:
10:17 < Grum>     repositories {        maven {            url "http://s3.amazonaws.com/Minecraft.Download/libraries"
10:17 < Grum> there is damned good reason we're using the structure we're using in the launcher :p
10:18 < AlphaBlend> Grum: wat
10:18 < Grum> md_5: should solve your problems not?
10:19 < SinZ> isn't forge going to use their own maven server through the launcher
10:19 < Grum> ofcourse, they should; we even added support for that
10:24 <+md_5> Grum thanks
17:56 < ellisvlad> Hmm
17:57 < ellisvlad> What is the best way of calculating how long a block should take to break?
18:04 < Yoshi2> ellisvlad: I'm not sure if there is a good way of calculating the time for breaking a block, you might need one or several tables so you can look the values up
18:10 < ellisvlad> kk thx
18:11 < Yoshi2> ah, each block in minecraft seems to have some sort of "hardness" value attached to it
18:11 < Yoshi2> www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Hardness
18:13 < Yoshi2> if there is some sort of consistency between the hardness value of the block and the time it takes to break that block with a specific tool, you could calculate the time without having to store everything
18:24 < ellisvlad> Yeah, I've found it now thanks
18:24 < ellisvlad> http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Digging
19:28 < TkTech> sadimusi: Not really a problem with python except for absolute beginners. virtualenv.
19:29 < TkTech> sadimusi: And with py3k it's built into CPython.
19:30 < TkTech> Grum: Can't believe I pay more tax than a socialist Euro country.
19:30 <+sadimusi> it was never a problem for me, the authors of most libraries are aware of how the system works and don't break compatibility 
20:48 < vemacs> Uh, hello, I have a simple question about the server list ping packet
20:48 < vemacs> Basically, I have this packet (byte[] to hex string):
20:48 < vemacs> FF002300A7003100000037003300000031002E0036002E00310000004800410050005000590020004D005500520049004300410020004400410059000000340032003000000031003300330037
20:49 < vemacs> It should display 420/1337 players, but it displays as 420/13 in the client, and several server list ping tools I tested
20:49 < vemacs> does anybody see anything wrong?
20:49 < vemacs> it does end with "3100330033003700", so that does look correct...
20:57  * vemacs facepalms
20:57 < vemacs> never. mind.
21:29 < Grum> TkTech: you do not?
21:29 < TkTech> Grum: hm?
21:39 < Grum> pay more taxes
21:39 < Grum> TkTech: ;)
21:40 < TkTech> I pay 47% on 98k
22:56 < Grum> TkTech: 47% over the whole amount or just 'when i earn one more dollar $.47 is taken as tax'
23:12 < Drainedsoul> uhh I'm pretty sure those are the same?  97000*0.47 == 97000*(1*0.47)
--- Day changed ven. juil. 05 2013
00:10 < TkTech> Grum: It's 43.5% on taxable income, but works out to 47% after EI and other deductions.
00:10 < TkTech> Grum: The good thing in Canada is that only 50% of capital gains (stocks/ETFs) are taxed, and you can deduct your losses from that.
00:27 <+md_5> btw guys, I know mojang loves backwards compat and all
00:27 <+md_5> but 1.6 -> 1.5 will not work, since the worlds are incompatible
01:10 <+md_5> so
01:11 <+md_5> session.minecraft.net is giving me NOT YET as a response
01:11 <+md_5> halp
01:11 <+md_5> (I changed to a homebrewed http client, thats obviously doing something wrong)
01:20 < Drainedsoul_2> why would you use a homebrewed HTTP client when cURL exists
01:20 < Drainedsoul_2> also: do you have HTTP session transcripts where it's giving this response?
01:23 <+md_5> Drainedsoul_2 been using asynchttpclient for a while, but I need to move off it
01:23 <+md_5> its literally, a HTTP 1.1 GET, with only the host header set
01:25 <+md_5> http://session.minecraft.net/game/checkserver.jsp
01:25 <+md_5> hm
01:25 <+md_5> that says NOT YET
01:25 <+md_5> ah
01:25 <+md_5> I dont think I'm sending that get params
01:29 <+md_5> solved
01:39 < Drainedsoul_2> is asynchttpclient some kind of curl wrapper
01:41 <+md_5> Drainedsoul_2 ._.
01:41 <+md_5> I'm using java
01:41 <+md_5> in fact
01:41 <+md_5> why on earth would you use curl unless this is php
01:41 <+md_5> and possibly libcurl in another language
01:48 < Drainedsoul_2> why wouldn't you use libcurl is the better question
01:48 < Drainedsoul_2> I wasn't talking about using the command line tool, that's for sure
02:02 <+sadimusi> libcurl looks horrible
02:23 <+md_5> Drainedsoul yup, libcurl for java
02:23 <+md_5> stupidest thing Ive ever heard
02:23 <+md_5> Im DIY so I can fit it into the non blocking network engine I use
02:23 <+md_5> and have http requests in the same eventloop
02:50 < Drainedsoul> I'm pretty sure you could do that with libcurl multi handles, without the overhead of rolling your own HTTP implementation, but if that's what floats your boat, sure
03:19 <+md_5> yeah you dont have much idea what you are saying
03:21 < Drainedsoul> based on what?
07:19 < winny> is there a page that documents how to get status from a minecraft 1.6.1 server?
07:50 < Drainedsoul> what do you mean "status"?
07:59 < winny> server status provided by sending the 0xFE byte on a freshly created connection
08:00 < winny> is it just a null byte delimited set of fields?
08:03 < dx> winny: http://wiki.vg/Server_List_Ping
08:04 < winny> oh, thank you, I missed that page
08:42 < winny> huh, the lack of a wikitable template for protocol packets is a tad surprising
08:43 < dx> it's probably because nobody knows enough about mediawiki black magic to do it that way
08:44 < dx> (or nobody cares enough)
08:44 < dx> actually
08:45 < dx> winny: talking about the 'protocol' page, right?
08:45 < winny> yeah i'll fix it once i figure out how :)
08:45 < winny> templates are not easy stuff
08:45 < winny> (to write)
08:46 < dx> i guess it's okay, just make sure that other people will understand how to edit them later
08:46 < winny> yup of course
08:46 < winny> i'll probably just put something in the talk page
08:46 < winny> otherwise it'll just be annoying for all users trying to read it
08:54 <+md_5> hm
08:54 <+md_5> what happened to all the voices here
08:55 <+md_5> ./cs list access #mcdevs 
08:55 <+md_5> ._.
08:55 <+md_5> its been blocked
08:55 <+md_5> ._.
08:55 <+md_5> ammar2 clonejo sadimusi they are coming for us :c
08:57 < winny> fresh blood.
09:14 < clonejo1> Yoshi2: I'll be in Cologne today and on the weekend btw.
09:17 < clonejo1> -> Sigint conference
09:18 < dx> md_5: it's "access #mcdevs list"
09:18 < dx> (and i can see it even if i'm not there)
09:26 < Yoshi2> clonejo1: ah, nice
09:27 < Yoshi2> the sigint conference seems to be fairly close 
09:29 <+AndrewPH> md_5: a netsplit happened prolly
09:29 < Yoshi2> but whew, 30€ for a single day ticket or 60€ for a standard ticket, that's not a small price
09:47 < clonejo1> Luckily I don't need accommodation in Cologne as I can just commute from Aachen.
09:52 < Yoshi2> the Mediapark is a very nice place, it even has a movie theater
09:52 < jast> eh, Mediapark is boring
09:54 < Yoshi2> on the other hand, there's an ice cafe which I haven't made good experiences with
09:57 < Yoshi2> when me and some others sat down to eat our ice-cream, one of the people who worked there sent us away even though it was saturday evening and the whole place was empty
09:58 < Yoshi2> I don't know if that is common place in other ice cafes, but at least a little bit of "customer service" would've been nice
10:35 <+SpaceManiac> netsplits indeed
10:37 < Yoshi2> it just isn't irc without the daily netsplits
12:30 <+pdelvo> hey
12:33 <+SpaceManiac> yo
12:38 < winny> do you guys ever run any of the mediawiki maintenance scripts? (I have a small mediawiki instance and I can't figure this out on my own, ha ha.)
12:57 <+md_5> winny I ran one ... once. to reset a password
13:15 < winny> oh ok :). #mediawiki told me that I only should run them to fix problems
13:18 <+md_5> thats what they are there for
15:27 <+pdelvo> that is acutally very funny
15:49 < SinZ> sadimusi: 1.6.2 is available as a snapshot, can you put it through burger vitrine?
16:12 < iBotPeaches_> SinZ: looks like a hotfix is already coming for 1.6.2
16:32 < l4mRh4X0r> Hotfix was just released ;)
16:33 < SinZ> Dinnerbro has done two hotfixs
16:33 < l4mRh4X0r> Yup.
16:49 < dx> good morning #mcdevs.
16:50 < dx> i went to sleep after jeb mentioned they would release 1.6.2 and the json chat bug wasn't fixed (or even confirmed)
16:52 < dx> but yeah, i guess they kept closing bugs while planning the release
17:02 < iBotPeaches_> dx: the color/format one got marked as fixed, haven't tested yet to confirm
17:04 < dx> iBotPeaches_: i'll probably have to do some intensive testing of formatting in general using this, for some reason i suspect i'll find even more bugs.
17:05 < dx> § was broken in very stupid ways, wouldn't be surprised if those bugs were dragged along.
17:05 < iBotPeaches_> dx: yeah, I had only tested the text attribute of the new json, haven't even looked into the translate/using parts
17:07 < dx> iBotPeaches_: well.. i don't think i'm going to test that either, since translation isn't useful at all for third party devs. the chat.type.text one isn't even useful for most bukkit servers out there
17:13 < SinZ> translations only work for vannila
17:39 <+sadimusi> 0x2c looks really ugly
17:44 < iBotPeaches> that is a lot of protocol stuff for a .1 update, or burger just went overkill on the diff
17:44 <+sadimusi> that isn't the real diff, I'm fixing it
17:45 <+sadimusi> this one is correct though http://beta.ceilingcat.ch/1.6.1...1.6.2#packets
17:45 < iBotPeaches> o lol :) much better
17:45 <+sadimusi> now it should be correct on b.wiki.vg as well
17:46 <+sadimusi> were hay bales really removed?
17:48 < iBotPeaches> no clue, only bug touching hay was 15024, so unless it was accidental regression
17:50 < SinZ> sadimusi: burger must of just derped
17:51 <+sadimusi> most likely
17:51 < SinZ> 0x2c is indeed ugly
17:53 < SinZ> any idea what the additional info in 0x2c is?
17:53 < SinZ> or what 0x85 is for
17:54 <+sadimusi> I'll update mc4p and try to figure it out
17:54 < dx> oh, you renamed it already? :D
17:54 < iBotPeaches> what if its nested properties info for an entity
17:55 <+sadimusi> var5.a() appears to be a UUID instance
17:59 < SinZ> hmm, noone has updated the protocol for 1.6.1
17:59 < SinZ> oh wait, in its own article it does
18:00 < dx> "its own article"?
18:00 < dx> you mean the server list ping article?
18:00 < SinZ> yes
18:00 < dx> okay
18:09 < dx> in other news, has anyone heard of 'cube world'?
18:10 < dx> i heard it's fun, and i haven't even played it yet, but it seems they have a co-op multiplayer mode with a dedicated server that only runs on windows.
18:10 < dx> the client is windows only too, but windows only server software annoys me.
18:28 < TkTech> dx: Feel free to use the wiki for other games as long as it's namespaced
18:33 <+sadimusi> argh that control click thing is the horror
18:34 <+sadimusi> when I switch out of the minecraft application while the ctrl key is pressed it remembers the state and I can't click anything when I come back
18:34 <+sadimusi> pressing ctrl again fixes it, but it took me a while to figure that out
18:35 <+sadimusi> Grum: ^
18:35 < winny> that happens with any input key mc uses
18:36 <+sadimusi> looks like there are already a ton of complaints on the issue tracker about it
18:37 < winny> i suspect it might be a limitation of the even processing stuff that minecraft uses
18:37 < winny> hopefully not
18:45 <+sadimusi> I have no idea what the changes to 0x2c are about
18:46 <+sadimusi> so far I only got a list with one entry on generic.movementSpeed
18:52 < iBotPeaches> so it added that short per entity, so now each entity, has a string, double, short, but var3 (the short) isn't the cause of the final loop, so that throws my idea of it being nested property info
18:53 <+sadimusi> the short is just the length of the nested list
18:53 <+sadimusi> and the outer loop doesn't iterate over entities but different properties
18:55 <+sadimusi> this is one of the packets I received: http://pastie.org/8113329
18:56 < iBotPeaches> does that packet control the speed of mobs as well
18:56 < iBotPeaches> because MC-16222, fixed the fact that baby zombies were the same speed as running adult zombies
18:57 <+sadimusi> does the client even need to know the speed of the mobs?
18:57 < iBotPeaches> so maybe that affects modifiers to the outer loop value
18:57 < dx> TkTech: gotcha! namespaces with : or /?
19:33 <+sadimusi> oh, it looks like there's a special kind of recipe for all those simple 9X <=> 1Y
19:35 < Grum> [18:35:21] <+sadimusi> Grum: ^ <-- yeah nothing that can be done about that; the horrible hacking means it will never give a 'key up' for ctrl
19:35 <+sadimusi> can we at least have an option to turn it off?
19:37 <+sadimusi> I'm sure I'm not the only one with a key shortcut containing ctrl to switch to a certain application
19:38 < dx> ctrl-alt-arrows is the default for gnome and xfce iirc.
19:39 < dx> no idea about kde and i've used super for a long time.
19:39 <+sadimusi> the ctrl-click thing might only be enabled on macs
19:40 <+sadimusi> at least that's what the changelog says
19:41 < dx> do macs have a ctrl key?
19:41 <+sadimusi> sure
19:41 < SinZ> its called something else
19:41 <+sadimusi> no
19:41 < dx> i thought they had only one mouse button, one key in the whole keyboard, and one feature in the whole OS
19:41 <+sadimusi> they have ctrl, alt and cmd
19:41 < dx> oh, okay
19:41 <+sadimusi> plus fn on the laptop keyboards
19:43 < SinZ> the alt key actually says option though (with alt in smaller text)
19:43 <+sadimusi> not on mine http://www.aebischers.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/keyboard.png
19:46 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±6] http://git.io/0_sgsQ
19:46 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 8519be6 - 1.6.2 Update
19:46 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath a7563c3 - Remove old server-side sprint handling
19:47 < SinZ> the US mac keyboard calls it option
19:48 < SinZ> http://fabbulous.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/keyboardcaption-100010086-orig.jpg
19:48 <+sadimusi> yeah, on the us keyboards even shift and caps lock have text on them
20:08 < Drainedsoul> there's no text at all on my keyboard :P
20:09 <+sadimusi> I broke the space bar on my blank one :/
20:11 < Drainedsoul> the ENTER key was the key that went on the last keyboard I had :(
20:11 < Drainedsoul> this one is a survivor though, spilt a whole glass of water on it playing Skyward Sword and it's still going strong :D
20:12 <+sadimusi> I'm thinking about getting a "das keyboard"
20:12 <+sadimusi> my flatmate has one and it's pretty awesome
20:12 < Drainedsoul> yeah I have a daskeyboard ultimate :3
20:12 < Drainedsoul> worth it
20:12 <+sadimusi> but extremely loud
20:12 <+sadimusi> how can you stand the noise?
20:12 < Drainedsoul> yeah that's the point, but they do have the "S" models if you want something not quite so loud
20:13 < Drainedsoul> the keyboard I had before this one was a Model M...I like the noise.  It gives you another form of feedback while typing.
20:13 < Drainedsoul> http://www.daskeyboard.com/model-s-ultimate-silent/
20:16 <+sadimusi> the real reason why I didn't buy one already is the layout
20:16 <+sadimusi> I'm still not quite sure if I want to switch to the US layout
20:17 < Drainedsoul> wut
20:17 <+sadimusi> and if I do I'd definitely get the professional one, new layout and no labels isn't a good idea :D
20:17 < Drainedsoul> which layout?
20:17 <+sadimusi> key layout
20:17 < Drainedsoul> like do you mean which keys do which, or the actual placement of specific keys
20:18 < Drainedsoul> because your keyboard layout -- as in which physical keys do what -- is an operating system function
20:18 <+sadimusi> not if I have labels
20:18 < Drainedsoul> well, who wants labels :P
20:18 <+sadimusi> and us layouts have a key more
20:18 < Drainedsoul> oh?  Which?
20:18 <+sadimusi> backslash
20:19 < Drainedsoul> like the backslash/pipe key?  Where are those symbols on not-US keyboards?
20:19 <+sadimusi> all those symbols are hidden as alt+something
20:19 < Drainedsoul> oh that must be awful.
20:19 <+sadimusi> yes, but I'm used to it
20:20 < Drainedsoul> I thought you were talking about QWERTZ
20:21 <+sadimusi> also that
20:21 < Drainedsoul> because that would just be a simply operating system toggle to switch over to.
20:21 < Drainedsoul> the same way I switch over to Dvorak
20:25 < barneygale> hey all. next time the topic comes up, I was thinking of suggesting to the mojang folk that the MC server could obey a sort-of X-Forwarded-For plugin message. What with 0xFE sending host/port now, this would simplify virtual hosting
20:25 < barneygale> but I'm not sure whether a) it'd be a good idea (thoughts?) b) whether the implementation can be made simple/nice
20:26 < Drainedsoul> I don't understand what purpose it would serve
20:26 <+sadimusi> me neither
20:26 < barneygale> right
20:26 <+sadimusi> if you want to proxy you use 0xfe and if you don't you use DNS
20:27 < barneygale> For virtual hosting, the idea would that all my servers (s.foo.mc, c.foo.mc) point to the same IP address, and each connection goes through my proxy first
20:27 < barneygale> using hostname from 0xFE and 0x02 you can figure out where you want to route the connection
20:27 <+sadimusi> obviously
20:27 < barneygale> But the server itself doesn't see the client's IP
20:27 < barneygale> It see's the proxy's
20:28 < barneygale> the forwarded-for message would be recognised by the server, and any future api calls (say, in bukkit), would give the forwarded-for IP
20:29 < Drainedsoul> that makes sense, although depending on how getting the client's IP is implemented by Mojang, that could be complicated for them (in which case they'll refuse to do it)
20:30 < barneygale> Yeah I need to check that
20:30 <+sadimusi> if you want to use it for bukkit anyway you can just add such a plugin message yourself
20:30 < barneygale> I hope it doesn't just .getClientAddr() on the socket everywhere, or something
20:30 < Drainedsoul> >Mojang
20:30 < Drainedsoul> >I hope it doesn't
20:30 < Drainedsoul> it probably does
20:31 <+sadimusi> barneygale: what would be so bad about it?
20:31 < barneygale> Well, it'd be useful if it only took one route to getting the client's IP, because it makes the change I'm suggesting easier to implement
20:32 <+sadimusi> would there be any benefit besides logs that make a bit more sense?
20:33 < Drainedsoul> blacklisting on a per server basis?
20:33 < barneygale> Oh, I misunderstood what you were referring to
20:33 < Drainedsoul> so you're blacklisted from A but not B, even though they go through the same proxy, without weird proxy logic?
20:33 < barneygale> /ban-ip takes an actual IP as an argument iirc
20:33 < barneygale> but it would still be sort-of useful for that
20:34 < Drainedsoul> although, you'd have to figure out some way to limited the x-forwarded-for to only certain IPs
20:34 < Drainedsoul> otherwise everyone could impersonate anyone else
20:34 < barneygale> But what's the point of sending hostname/port to the vanilla server? It doesn't care.
20:34 < barneygale> Drainedsoul: aye, that's part (b) of my question
20:35 < Drainedsoul> the best ways I see if rectifying that are: A) Have a config flag that enables the behaviour, and then firewall that server so only the proxy can communicate with it.  B) Have a config flag that enables the behaviour but only from certain source hosts.  C) Have a config flag that enables the behaviour and then causes the server to reject all connections not from a specific host.
20:35 < barneygale> The simplest/dumbest way would be to have an on/off in server.properties. If you turn it on, its your responsibility to make sure your server is only accessible via the proxy.
20:36 < barneygale> Yeah
20:36 < barneygale> I think whitelisting/blacklisting IPs will be a step too fa
20:36 < barneygale> on/off would work
20:36 < Drainedsoul> but at any rate, in order to get a secure implementation, you're asking Mojang to implement something new in the protocol, AND something new in server.properties
20:36 < Drainedsoul> my prediction: Grum will shoot this down real fast.
20:36  * sadimusi agrees
20:37 < barneygale> OK, I won't bother
20:37 < barneygale> thanks for the opinions
20:37 < Drainedsoul> I mean in a sane world this would only be like 10-20 lines of code, but >Mojang
20:37 < barneygale> I wish mojang would make the source available, not necessarily under open source, and accept patch requests heh
20:38 < Drainedsoul> I don't really understand their motivation for not making the source available, given that everyone and their mother has access to the reverse engineered source
20:38 <+sadimusi> "make the source available" == open source
20:38 < Grum> what?
20:38 < barneygale> sadimusi: not true
20:38 < Drainedsoul> I guess that depends on who's definition of "open source" you're going on
20:38 < Drainedsoul> *whose
20:39 < Drainedsoul> RMS would argue that it's not open source unless it's free to use for everyone everywhere under every possible circumstance
20:39 < Drainedsoul> I'd argue that if you can look at the source, it's open.
20:39 <+sadimusi> it looks like wikipedia agrees with barneygale 
20:39 < barneygale> Grum: I was suggesting adding a "X-Forwarded-For" plugin message, which would make vhosting much easier (server/bukkit/etc see the correct IP of a connected user, not the proxy's)
20:39 < barneygale> But I understand why you'd say no, so no need to elaborate hah
20:40 < Drainedsoul> yeah but that page was probably written by RMS!
20:40 < Grum> Drainedsoul: so in your opinion the decompiled source is enough
20:40 <+sadimusi> barneygale: again, if you want to use it with bukkit just build it yourself
20:40 < Drainedsoul> no in my opinion the decompiled source defeats the purpose of being closed source, and therefore I don't understand what is gained by not providing unobfuscated source.
20:40 <+sadimusi> barneygale: the communication is just between your proxy and your server, no need to bring vanilla in on this
20:40 < barneygale> I might look into it
20:42 < Grum> Drainedsoul: i dont see what mojang would gain from not having obfuscation
20:42 < barneygale> sadimusi: "Open-source software (OSS) is computer software with its source code made available and licensed with a license in which the copyright holder provides the rights to study, change and distribute the software at no cost to anyone and for any purpose"
20:42 < dx> hello #dejavu
20:42 < barneygale> 1) this is a simplification. many microsoft oss licenses have been rejected for things that don't exactly fall into these
20:42 < barneygale> 2) they'd probably not allow distribution
20:43 < Drainedsoul> I guess I see obfuscation as a burden, rather than a benefit.  And if the source was available there's a possibility you'd get free patches.  Although that'd probably be offset by the burden of wading through bullshit patches.
20:43 < Grum> Drainedsoul: patches we cannot accept
20:44 < barneygale> licensing issues?
20:44 < Grum> legal ones
20:44 < dx> licensing implies legal lol
20:44 < barneygale> can you be more specific? I've heard it's hard to legally take ownership of work someone's done for you without payment
20:44 < barneygale> is that it?
20:45 < Drainedsoul> I don't see how it should be hard.  I mean if I build a chair and give it to someone, they're technically taking ownership of it, but aren't obligated to pay me. o_O;
20:45 < dx> Drainedsoul: ...that's not how it works for intellectual property
20:45 < barneygale> digital/creative work I should say
20:45 < Drainedsoul> oh right intellectual "property"
20:46 < barneygale> putting it in quotes doesn't magic away legal problems
20:46 < Drainedsoul> I wasn't trying to magic away legal problems, I can't call intellectual "property" actual property and take myself seriously
20:46 < dx> lrn2copyright bro
20:47 < dx> it actually makes sense
20:47 < Drainedsoul> it doesn't at all
20:47 < Drainedsoul> actual property is rivalrous, intellectual "property" isn't.
20:47 < dx> sigh
20:48 < Drainedsoul> you'd have an easier time convincing RMS of the merits of IP, so, this is a non-starter
20:49 < barneygale> As someone who founded a torrent site with 100,000 members, I find your attitude a little extreme.
20:49 < dx> sorry, what? IP != patents
20:50 < dx> the GNU GPL actually works with copyright to enforce itself, regardless of what 'copyleft' might seem to mean
20:50 < Drainedsoul> what kind of argument is that supposed to be?  How extreme a position is, is not a statement on its merits
20:50 < Drainedsoul> yeah, so you'd have an easier time convincing RMS than me, just as I said
20:50 < Drainedsoul> lol
20:50 < dx> ..oh
20:50 < dx> okay
20:50 < barneygale> Don't believe in trademarks either?
20:50 < dx> yeah, that's because RMS actually understands copyright law
20:51 < Drainedsoul> which means nothing.  Understanding a law that you think is fundamentally unjust and improper doesn't magically change your perception of it
20:51 < barneygale> Yeah. RMS, for all his craziness, actually took existing law and used it for good, rather than complaining that IP exists at all
20:51 < barneygale> Which is a totally pointless position. Do you think IP is going away any time soon/
20:51 < Drainedsoul> that's meaningless
20:51 < Drainedsoul> do you think murder is going away anytime soon?  Does that make you think that it's just and proper?
20:51 < dx> speaking of pointless
20:52 < dx> this discussion
20:52 < barneygale> Drainedsoul: No. So my position on murder is one of /doing what I can/, e.g. supporting treating the causes, rather than saying "lol murder sucks! I don't believe in murder!"
20:53 < Drainedsoul> who's to say they're mutually exclusive?  I can't not buy into IP and yet simultaneously take actions that work towards freeing people from its constraints?
20:54 < barneygale> But you're not. We were having a discussion about /what we can do within our current legal framework/, and you rejected it, and started saying how IP doesn't exist
20:54 < Drainedsoul> you misunderstood me
20:54 < barneygale> which isn't useful. everyone in this channel has been reading tech sites for long enough to know about IP issues
20:54 < Drainedsoul> or maybe I miscommunicated
20:59 < dx> sadimusi: hey, in the mc4p code you're doing each new protocol version with tuple(map(list, protocol[55])) - aren't these shallow copies?
21:00 < dx> sadimusi: OH NEVERMIND i was doing my tests in a wrong way. not shallow. still, that's an interesting way to copy, took me a while to understand it.
21:01 <+sadimusi> dx: I didn't write that, but it copies one level deep
21:02 < dx> sadimusi: yeah, i thought the depth of the copy didn't reach the actual values of the lists
21:03 < dx> or, well, maybe it doesn't, but since you don't *modify* the values it's fine
21:04 < dx> sadimusi: these are completely shallow though https://github.com/sadimusi/mc4p/blob/698d43483837989f0f491074f8d4f99bbac9127f/mc4p/messages.py#L902-L910
21:05 <+sadimusi> yes
21:06 < dx> yes
21:06 <+sadimusi> I pushed the 1.6.2 protocol, even though the field names are still rather random
21:06 < dx> well, the only effect is to add packets to 13w05a... i guess nobody will care
21:06 < dx> woo!
21:07 <+sadimusi> oh there's a bug in there
21:07 < dx> sadimusi: you did another shallow copy
21:07 <+sadimusi> exactly
21:17 < dx> sadimusi: thanks for the update~
21:18 < dx> i'll start messing with the json now to see if it still sucks
21:25 < TkTech> dx: : + /
21:25 < TkTech> dx: box:main box:/textures/blah
21:25 < TkTech> Ouch. My condo is getting two special assessments, one for asbestos removal which is $20000 and the new windows for $14000.
21:26 < dx> TkTech: you lost me
21:26 < TkTech> dx: Namespacing.
21:26 < dx> TkTech: yes, but, isn't one mediawiki-style namespace enough for everything?
21:26 < TkTech> dx: Your earlier question. You need to use :, but you can also use / to sub-section
21:26 < dx> oh ok, / is optional though
21:27 < TkTech> Correct, it's just if you want to flesh it out more.
21:27 < dx> okay
22:31 < dav1d> yay
22:34 < TkTech> nay
22:36 < SinZ> sadimusi: so did you figure out what the new packet is for?
22:39 < dx> it's a packet to negotiate whether to use utf-8 and packet length headers, or not
22:39 < dx> ha ha just kidding
22:39 < dx> of course that 'just kidding' should be completely redundant
22:40 < TRocket> hmm, notifico still doesn't seem to be working
22:40 < dx> TkTech: ^
22:41 < TRocket> unless it is just punishing my for implementing the GUI first, before the program actually does anything.
22:41 < TRocket> *me
22:41 < dx> i'd punish you for that too, but notifico probably doesn't care. probably.
22:42 < TkTech> TRocket: You've of course copied the webhook link to your github project's admin page?
22:44 < TRocket> TkTech: where?
22:44 < TRocket> it says that 3 messages should have been sent from gh
22:44 < TkTech> Sure you didn't just click on the link a couple of times?
22:45 < TkTech> Go to your github project.
22:45 < TkTech> Click on settings in the right sidebar
22:45 < TkTech> Click on service hooks
22:45 < TkTech> Click WebHook URLs
22:45 < TkTech> Copy paste the URL from your hook on notifico and you're done.
22:46 < TkTech> (You could have let notifico do it for you if you imported from github)
22:46 < Not-001> [mcdevs/BenchCraft] TRocket pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/ExKHkw
22:46 < Not-001> [mcdevs/BenchCraft] TRocket a9242d0 - Update .gitignore
22:46 < TRocket> it appears to be working now
22:46 < TRocket> hmm.
22:47 < TkTech> Yeah…it can't magically set itself up on your github account unless you let it...
22:47 < TRocket> i had done previously
22:47 < TRocket> it worked for my other repos
22:47 < dx> lol
22:47 < TRocket> maybe because this one is part of an org
22:48 < TkTech> Might have been a hiccup on my side. Sure you checked the "Set Hooks" button when you did your last import?
22:48 < TRocket> yep
22:49 < TkTech> The behaviour and UI are awful (the plan is to get rid of all the options, import everything and just provide an "on/off" button (ala Travis)
22:49 < TkTech> https://github.com/TkTech/notifico/blob/master/notifico/views/pimport/__init__.py#L170
22:49 < TRocket> that would be much nicer
22:50 < TRocket> i might submit a few pull requests if i get around to it
22:51 <+ammar2> speaking of pull requests
22:51  * ammar2 whistles
22:51 < TkTech> Go crazy, and don't forget to add yourself to the readme as a contributor 
22:52 < TRocket> ok! now to remember python :P
22:55 <+sadimusi> SinZ: it gets sent when you place a sign
22:55 <+sadimusi> the last 3 fields are the coords
22:55 < dx> odd
22:55 <+sadimusi> iirc there was a bug with signs that got fixed
22:56 < dx> https://mojang.atlassian.net/browse/MC-5770
22:56 < dx> https://mojang.atlassian.net/browse/MC-19082
22:57 < dx> 5770 sounds more relevant
22:57 < dx> hm, actually, no idea why this would require a new packet
22:58 <+sadimusi> it is simpler than checking every chunk update for signs
22:58 <+sadimusi> and possibly faster
22:58 <+sadimusi> I'm not sure what the first byte is for, it's hardcoded to always be 0
23:00 < dx> but shouldn't sign placement be just a block placement, not a chunk update?
23:02 < dx> hm
23:02 < dx> a byte hardcoded to 0 sounds like a flag to implement something in the future
23:04 < dx> ...maybe they want to change how signs with § colors are parsed later?
23:50 < Grum> 5770 just sends the proper blockupdates now ... fail conversion pre 1.5 >.>
23:50 < Grum> 19082 was broken since someone added fence-interaction and moved the control of the sign-window to the server rather than client
23:51 < dx> "someone" :D
23:51 < dx> so i guess these are unrelated to the new packet
--- Day changed sam. juil. 06 2013
00:03 < Grum> yup
00:04 < Grum> well hmm i think the sign might have gotten a 'S->C' packet
00:04 < Grum> not sure actually
00:13 <+ammar2> a dedicated one over tile entity update?
06:51 < dong> Yes hello
06:51 < dong> I am embarking on a journey of great importance
06:52 < dong> I am rewriting Minecraft in pure, unadulterated C++
06:52 < dong> I know my OpenGL, so that isnt a problem
06:52 < dong> But the protocol is very odd.
06:53 < dong> There don't appear to be any specific
06:53 < dong> like
06:53 < dong> packet headers
06:53 < dong> or 
06:53 < dong> anything
06:53 < dong> to determine
06:53 < dong> what is being sent / received
06:53 < dong> and how many byes
06:53 < dong> bytes
06:53 < dong> are being transferred
06:54 <+SpaceManiac> enter as punctuation much?
06:54 <+SpaceManiac> but you're correct
07:12 < dx> lolwat that guy
07:28 < Drainedsoul> if he knows C++ so well he's just write a few metaprograms and have the whole protocol implemented.
07:29 < Drainedsoul> *he'll
09:25 < Yoshi2> I wish that guy lots of luck in his holy quest of rewriting minecraft in c++ for whatever reason he has
09:28 < Drainedsoul> what reason does he need other than that C++ is oodles of fun! :D
09:36 < TRocket> that would be me!
11:59 < winny> I don't think the 1.6 proto for server ping works here… http://www.wiki.vg/Server_List_Ping
12:00 < winny> if i revert back to the 0xFE01 request message, i get a response, but with the method it says you need for 1.6 and later doesn't work on these 1.6.1 servers i'm trying to get ping info on
12:03 < winny> the python gistfile times out on servers i know are up
12:10 < winny> https://bytesadism.org/dev/mcstat/mcstat.php?hostname=yuppies.no-ip.biz&use_old_method= works (sends only 0xfe01) but https://bytesadism.org/dev/mcstat/mcstat.php?hostname=yuppies.no-ip.biz does not
12:11 < winny> source file: http://sprunge.us/JXOj
12:11 < winny> but like I said the gist files don't appear to work either
12:12 < winny> oh hm,
12:12 < winny> maybe it's just my local internet connection
12:12 < winny> now it's happy
12:14 < winny> disregard
12:14 < winny> i wish to smack an isp :)
16:06 < dav1d> lol
16:06 < dav1d> my BraLa/ folder has 537MiB
16:08 < dav1d> lol
16:08 < dav1d> 78M bin/bralad
16:08 < dav1d> that is huuge
16:16 <+pdelvo> what have you done?
16:17 < dav1d> pdelvo: nothing lol
16:17 < dav1d> pdelvo: isn't yours that big?
16:18  * pdelvo checks
16:19 < dav1d> well, after stripping → 27M
16:19 <+pdelvo> 4,7mb the bin folder. but my version is a little bit older
16:19 < dav1d> pdelvo: phew
16:20 < dav1d> well it used to have always +20M
16:20 < dav1d> maybe windows doesn't put so much debugging stuff into it
16:20 <+pdelvo> what do you have in it? :D a backup of your photo library? :D
16:20 < dav1d> ^^
17:07 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/QB8MwQ
17:07 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde 236edca - workaround gdc bug?
17:24 < dav1d> WHY
17:24 < dav1d> 0x2C using fucking Key-Value shit
17:24 < dav1d> why don't they simply use nbt
17:24 < dav1d> I mean it exists, why not use it
17:25 < Yoshi2> it's a mystery
17:28 < dav1d> it's getting worse every day :(
17:28 <+pdelvo> consistency is for noobies
17:31 < SinZ> dav1d: Gru.m doesn't like NBT, thats why
17:31 < dav1d> SinZ: then he should replace it
17:31 < dav1d> SinZ: but not with such a shit
17:31 < SinZ> why do you think chat is in json
17:31 < dav1d> SinZ: lol
17:32 < dav1d> SinZ: bson pls
17:32 < dav1d> using json as nbt replacement, lol
17:33 <+pdelvo> its funny to see that in the protocol they are trying to not waste a single byte, but in chat they are using json
17:33 < dav1d> pdelvo: UCS2 json
17:33 <+pdelvo> :D
17:43 < iBotPeaches> at least its not xml
17:50 < dav1d> 1.6.2 is a snapshot? :(
17:50 < dav1d> updated to 1.6.2 dammit
17:51 < dav1d> lol
17:51 < dav1d> typo alert!
17:51 < dav1d> 2013-07-06 17:49:54 [SEVERE] Reached end of stream for /127.0.0.1
17:51 < clonejo2> dav1d: not bson, msgpack
17:51 < dav1d> clonejo2: doesn't fit into the current protocol
17:51 < dav1d> furthermore there is ProtocolBuffer
17:52 < dav1d> 2013-07-06 17:52:30 [INFO] zens1ert lost connection: disconnect.genericReason
17:52 < dav1d> -.-
17:52 < dav1d> so much information
17:55 < clonejo2> dav1d: How is bson different to msgpack?
17:56 < clonejo2> They seem pretty similar, though msgpack might be a little smaller.
17:56 < dav1d> oh right, I thought msgpack is something like prtocolbuffer
17:57 < dav1d> clonejo1: there exist libraries for bson
17:58 < dav1d> clonejo1: seems like messagepack is bson2.0
17:58 < clonejo1> "The official implementation is available in a variety of languages such as C, C++, C#, D, Erlang, Go, Haskell, Java, JavaScript, Lua, OCaml, Perl, PHP, Python, Ruby, Scala and Smalltalk."
17:58 < dav1d> clonejo1: but I'd use messagepack for the whole protocol then
17:59 < dav1d> [17:53:44.700] Game: DEBUG: Unhandled packet: server.EntityProperties(int entity_id : "305", double[string] properties : "["":2.36436e-308, "generic.movementSpeed":0.25]")
17:59 < dav1d> :D
17:59 < dav1d> this doesn't look correct
17:59 < dav1d> mojang pls
17:59 < Dinnerbone> dav1d pls
18:00 < dav1d> :D
18:00 < clonejo1> dav1d: That's not necessarily the best option, because the structure is resend every time for common packets.
18:00 < Dinnerbone> What's not correct?
18:00 < dav1d> Dinnerbone: na, I guess I implemented it too naive
18:00 < Dinnerbone> Probably
18:00 < dav1d> Dinnerbone: sorry if I highlighted you, not my intention
18:00 < Dinnerbone> You didn't
18:01 < dav1d> yeah, burger confirmed it, there is more to it
18:01 < dav1d> clonejo1: protocolbuffer?
18:02 < dav1d> clonejo1: https://developers.google.com/protocol-buffers/
18:02 < dav1d> MG
18:02 < dav1d> *mh
18:03 < dav1d> anybody has 0x2c implemented?
18:03 < dav1d>         int count = read!int(s);
18:03 < dav1d>         foreach(_; 0..count) {
18:03 < dav1d>             ret[read!Key(s)] = read!Value(s);
18:03 < dav1d>         }
18:03 < dav1d> my naive attempt
18:03 < dav1d> but burger tells me that is wrong
18:05 < clonejo1> protocol buffers seem pretty okay, too
18:07 < dav1d> no one? :(
18:09 < dav1d> [18:08:25.483] Game: DEBUG: Unhandled packet: server.EntityProperties(int entity_id : "866", double[string] properties : "["":2.36436e-308, "generic.movementSpeed":0.25,
18:09 < dav1d> "ric.maxHealth䀴\x00\x00\x00\x00᠀\x03捁\x00\u18D7\x00Г\x00ẕᴀû㛽ਅ뼀\x10!Ĭ晀쀀G\x00\x00\u0800ऀ言\v\x7F⠀\x03挀\x10!Ĭ晀쀀G\x00\x00\u0800ऀ言\v\x7FⰀ\x03挀\x00Ȁᄀ最攀渀攀爀椀挀⸀洀愀砀䠀攀愀氀琀桀᠀\x00\x00\x00\x00ᔀ最攀渀æ
18:09 < dav1d> ”€çˆ€æ¤€æŒ€â¸€æ´€æ¼€ç˜€":3.32808e+178]")
18:09 < dav1d> :D
18:10 < iBotPeaches> LOL
18:11 < Yoshi2> looks like that is working as intended
18:11 < dav1d> dammit
18:11 < dav1d> I am reading correctly
18:11 < dav1d> according to
18:11 < dav1d> https://github.com/SirCmpwn/Craft.Net/blob/master/Craft.Net/Packets.cs#L1567
18:12 < Dinnerbone> That's wrong
18:13 < dav1d> Dinnerbone: thanks :)
18:13 < dav1d> mcp time
18:18 < iBotPeaches> is 0x85, the sign packet, with coords? first byte always being 0?
18:23 < dav1d> great! mcp is python2
18:27 < dav1d> (but wants to use python3)
18:32 < dav1d> wtf?
18:32 < dav1d> sadimusi: ping
18:33 < dav1d> sadimusi: nvm I am stuipid
18:36 < SinZ> I wonder how clean burger vitrines output would be with a pre-obfuscated copy of minecraft
18:40 < dav1d> !! Modified jar detected. Unpredictable results !!
18:40 < dav1d> <3
18:40 < dav1d> at least it didn't stop
18:42 < iBotPeaches> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5850262/
18:43 < dav1d> iBotPeaches: how? :D
18:43 < dav1d> iBotPeaches: that list thing, that's what I am missing
18:43 < iBotPeaches> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5850264/
18:43 < iBotPeaches> this is so messy
18:43 < iBotPeaches> i have no clue what it is
18:43 < dav1d> iBotPeaches: where did you get that from?
18:43 < iBotPeaches> mc4p
18:44 < dav1d> ok mcp couldn't compile that
18:44 < dav1d> iBotPeaches: mc4p = mc3p updated?
18:44 < iBotPeaches> https://github.com/sadimusi/mc4p
18:44 < iBotPeaches> I belive so
18:44 < dav1d> great thanks
18:45 < dav1d> I understand
19:02 < dav1d> got it
19:03 < iBotPeaches> :)
19:03 < Calinou> I accidentally this channel
19:03 < dav1d> Calinou: *forgot a verb
19:04 < Calinou> it's intentional :>
19:15 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 4 commits to master [+4/-0/±19] http://git.io/2cs6CQ
19:15 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde ab6971d - added loading support for models, gloom
19:15 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde a0024df - added lightvolumegeneration for torches etc.
19:15 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde 68bb73a - more events, more separation
19:15 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde 6d47184 - Implemented 1.6.2 (snapshot)
19:17 < dav1d> I think I am crazy
19:17 < dav1d> I opened a craft.net issue, but I can't find it now
19:20 < dx> censorship!
19:20 < dx> sircmpwn is literally hitler
19:22 < dav1d> no lol
19:22 < dav1d> I found it
19:22 < dav1d> funny is
19:23 < dav1d> the 0x2c code is a real mess... nbt would fit perfectly though
19:25 < dx> lol
19:26 < dx> i'm not surprised at all that they avoid using the 'ugly' nbt code at all costs
19:26 < dav1d> nbt isn't the best, but definitly better than this hacked-together code
19:31 < Drainedsoul> what's the problem with parsing 0x2C?
19:33 < dav1d> works now
19:33 < dav1d> I was looking at 1.6.1 but implementing 1.6.2
19:34 < Drainedsoul> writeLong(var5.a().getLeastSignificantBits()); what is it writing here?  128 bit integer?
19:35 < dav1d> no idea
19:35 < dav1d> but yeah only thing which makes sense
19:35 < Drainedsoul> looks like it's a UUID from googling that method
19:35 < dx> 128 bit? lol?
19:36 < Drainedsoul> what's funny about that?
19:36 < dav1d> uuid would make sense
19:52 < iBotPeaches> so in 0x2c, the list length has nothing to do with the property count number?
19:53 < iBotPeaches> I can't figure out why only some of the 0x2c packets have the list 
19:53 < dav1d> iBotPeaches: all have it, but with a length of 0
19:54 < Drainedsoul> so that short is the length of the preceding data in terms of...what?
19:54 < dav1d> uuid, double, byte
19:54 < dav1d> uuid could be player related
19:54 < dav1d> (probably is)
19:54 < Drainedsoul> okay that's easy
19:55 < iBotPeaches> okay, I thought there was a list per property, no wonder mine is still borking
19:56 < Drainedsoul> there's a list per entry, right?
19:57 < Drainedsoul> so String/Double/<list> repeated the number of times given by the first int?
19:57 < dav1d> String(Double/(short)*List)
19:57 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: ^
19:57 < dav1d> https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/brala/network/packets/types.d#L295
19:57 < dav1d> ^ one element
19:57 < dav1d> *value
19:58 < dav1d> "struct Value"
19:59 < Drainedsoul> yeah so 0x2C can include multiple kvps, each kvp can have an attached list?
20:00 < dav1d> yes
20:00 < Drainedsoul> cool, that's easy
20:00 < dav1d> yes
20:01 < Drainedsoul> I like how that single packet illustrates the ridiculousness of the protocol.  We'll prefix these kvps with a 32-bit length...and this list with a 16-bit length
20:01 < Drainedsoul> consistency!
20:12 < iBotPeaches> yee everything is working again :)
20:13 < iBotPeaches> 0x2c was a -_-
20:13 < Drainedsoul> it doesn't seem that ridiculous to me.  At least not compared to other things.
20:22 < iBotPeaches> just made my first edit on the wiki :)
20:23 < Drainedsoul> :O to what?
20:23 < dav1d> iBotPeaches: I hope in the pre release page?
20:23 < iBotPeaches> yer
20:23 < dav1d> that sounded wrong, sry
20:23 < clonejo1> Is the wiki bot gone?
20:25 < dav1d> clonejo1: Not-001 should do that
20:25 < dav1d> TkTech: ?^
20:25 < dav1d> TkTech: Not-001 isn't triggered by wiki edits?
20:28 < Yoshi2> I've heard that the support for wiki edits is rather quriky, and the notifications might appear late or not at all
20:31 < SinZ> it most likely means the wikibot is off
20:32 < clonejo> hm, I lost +v by connecting from another host.
20:34 < clonejo> wait, I didn't auth with NickServ
20:37 <+clonejo> I'm bouncerless now
20:39 < dav1d> poor clonejo 
20:40 < Yoshi2> a live without a bouncer is a difficult one
20:40 < Yoshi2> *life
20:40 <+clonejo> Yoshi2: I do not neet a bouncer, I'm using WeeChat through a remote shell.
20:41 <+clonejo> *need
20:42 <+clonejo> This has the advantage of having the same history on each device.
20:42 < Yoshi2> clonejo: ah, you've got an irc client running on a machine, and you remotely connect to this machine on other devices?
20:45 <+clonejo> yup
21:00 < Drainedsoul> template <> class PacketTypeMap<0x2C> : public PacketType<0x2C,PacketArray<Int32,Tuple<String,Double,PacketArray<Int16,Tuple<UInt128,Double,SByte>>>>> {	}; <== 0x2C (1.6.2) \o/
21:04 <+sadimusi> dav1d: I renamed it to mc4p to avoid confusion with mmcgill's repo
21:04 <+sadimusi> dav1d: I should probably add a note to my mc3p repo though
21:08 < dav1d> clonejo: you configured znc wrong then
21:08 < dav1d> there is an autoclear buffer option
21:08 < dav1d> disable it
21:21 <+clonejo> oh, thanks.
22:02 < dav1d> Dinnerbone: There is a typo somewhere in the latest snapshot, in case you guys didn't notice it yet: "[SEVERE] Reached end of stream for /127.0.0.1"
22:03 < dav1d> if you want I can open a bug-report, but that's just a fix of a splitsecond
22:13 < Dinnerbone> What's the typo dav1d?
22:13 < dav1d> Dinnerbone: SEVERE = SERVER I guess?
22:13 < SinZ> no, SEVERE, as in really bad
22:14 < Dinnerbone> ^
22:14 < dav1d> oh :( dammit, sorry about that, I've read that as server and thought it's a typo, nvm then
22:14 < SinZ> sadimusi: what is the 4th p?
22:15 < SinZ> nvm
22:44 < Drainedsoul> I don't see how reaching the end of a stream is "SEVERE".  It's pretty funny to me how my server spits out SEVERE everytime a client pings it.
23:24 < dx> dav1d: severe is one of the generic log levels of the java logging package :V
23:25 < dav1d> dx: I know, pssht
23:25 < dx> dav1d: complaining about that typo sounds like not touching anything java related in years :D
23:25 < dav1d> I was dumb :(
23:25 < dav1d> I should file a bugreport @oracle
23:25 < dx> do eet
23:26 < mh0> End of stream, that has something to do with sockets, amirite?
23:26 < mh0> If yes, then i dont see hwo it's severe
23:26 < mh0> how*
23:27 < dx> it's an unexpected end of stream
23:27 < mh0> i guess
23:27 < mh0> still, meh
23:27 < dx> considering that severe is just a middle point between warning an exception, it's perfectly appropriate
23:27 < dx> *and exception
23:41 < Drainedsoul> well the client ending the stream shouldn't really be noteworthy other than to note the fact they disconnected.  Network connections can end anytime.
--- Day changed dim. juil. 07 2013
01:22 < Drainedsoul> http://i.imgur.com/Mrsv65G.png <== this is a correct interpretation of 0x2C y/n?
01:23 <+sadimusi> that doesn't look rigjt
01:23 <+sadimusi> *right
01:24 <+sadimusi> the lowest level should have two doubles
01:25 <+sadimusi> SinZ: it stands for "portable"
01:26 <+sadimusi> SinZ: the suggestions included MineCraft Pretty Printing Prevailing Portable Protocol Parsing Python Proxy ;)
01:29 < Drainedsoul> Where should the second double be?
01:36 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 3 commits to master [+0/-0/±14] http://git.io/uyAM5w
01:36 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde d47d1c3 - workaround for older versions
01:36 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde 6996a0a - updated readme, 1.6.2
01:36 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde 1ccc645 - update glfw and all other submodules
01:40 < TkTech> dav1d: The small script that does the wiki is complete crap
01:40 < dav1d> TkTech: haha ok
01:40 < TkTech> I should probably change it to be a cron job
02:00 < dav1d> pdelvo: if you get around, would be great if you could do a "git pull origin master && git submodule update && dmd -run build_brala.d --no-cache"
02:01 < dav1d> my git in my vm is broken
02:01 < dav1d> -_-
02:02 <+pdelvo> I reinstalled my system recently and have not installed a lot of stuff. I try it tomorrow
02:03 < dav1d> ah ok
02:03 < dav1d> didn't expect you to be awake :D
02:04 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: for me it looks correct
02:04 <+pdelvo> its 2am. No time to sleep :D
02:13 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±13] http://git.io/Anmd_w
02:13 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde 1abd076 - update glfw and all other submodules
06:41 <+md_5> Grum loving the toString() in all the new classes - its like you want us to deobfuscate
11:40 < Grum> md_5: you should always have a sane to-string for debugging purposes =)
11:40 <+md_5> make the obfuscator strip them!
13:26 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/TN8mlw
13:26 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde ad2da89 - glfw c submodule points now to the official repository
13:28 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/FoGThw
13:28 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde 668155d - glfw c submodule points now to the official repository
14:24 < dav1d> lol ~/.minecraft has 512M
14:26 < Calinou> 485M here
14:26 < Calinou> quite a lot
14:26 < dav1d> yeah
14:26 < Calinou> erm, I have 251MB of texture packs
14:26 < dav1d> where does the new launchaur place the default texture pack?
14:26 < dav1d> it isn't anylonger in the jar?
14:28 < dav1d> ah it is
14:28 < dav1d> assets/minecraft/textures
15:32 < dav1d> so how do I login with only a minecraft session and username from the launcher_profiles.json?
15:32 < dav1d> I set accessToken as session it
15:32 < dav1d> *id
15:38 < dav1d> using accessToken:uuid doesn't work either
15:39 < dav1d> got it :D
15:39 < dav1d> token:accessToken:uuid
15:40 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 2 commits to master [+4/-1/±9] http://git.io/5nolbg
15:40 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde d1db806 - load textures from 1.6+ jars
15:40 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde be774e8 - added option to login with the new launcher_profiles.json
16:06 < dav1d> noooo
16:06 < dav1d> they renamed the textures
20:01 < superjoe> facepalm: https://github.com/superjoe30/node-minecraft-protocol/issues/58
20:02 < SinZ> wat
20:03 < SinZ> oh, I have a bunch of text, better take a screenshot of it rather than just send the text
20:04 < Yoshi2> because it is too much trouble to copy&paste the text into pastebin or something similar
20:14 <+pdelvo> but all the cool kids use pictures
20:37 < dx> hm, that reminds me i need to get some kind of window manager keybinding for pastebins
20:38 < dx> having a keybinding for screenshots is easy, just scrot -s, but i often need to edit text before uploading. FAR TOO COMPLEX.
21:57 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-0/±3] http://git.io/f6G2Tw
21:57 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde ba7c860 - use textures from 1.6 jars/texturepacks
23:19 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-4/±2] http://git.io/BK6omA
23:19 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath a7a6944 - Moved util to soulsand
23:20 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 8a00ff7 - Started using soulsand/chat's translate methods
--- Day changed lun. juil. 08 2013
00:38 < winny> how did you guys come up with the name "Server List PIng"
00:38 < winny> a bunch of words concatenated together… meaningful only if you know we're talking about MC
00:39 <+pdelvo> because "Server List Ping Mincraft Network Protocol Packet" is a bit long
00:40 < winny> I mean the words, is that something Mojang wrote somewhere or is that something was thought up of here?
00:41 <+pdelvo> they are named by the first person who give it a name most of the time. I dont know who named it that way
00:41 < winny> alright, fair enough
00:42 < winny> Maybe it should be like: Server Status Request or something. . ., hm.
00:43 < winny> I mean ping
00:43 < winny> it's using ping in that sense unrelated to its technical word usage
00:43 < winny> like "i'm going to ping you tomorrow morning about xyz"
00:50 < dx> i'm pretty sure it's used for the latency approximation in the server list
00:51 <+pdelvo> it is
00:52 < dx> cool.
00:52 < dx> then that counts as ping
01:01 < winny> well the latency approximation isn't really a component of the communitcation
01:01 < winny> it's just some timing done unrelated to the data sent
01:02 < winny> I mean, you could start login and just close the connection after the first server reply
01:02 < winny> and that'd be a legit way to ping
01:03 < winny> "ping" (double quotes :)  )
01:04 < winny> if you guys are ok with a name change to something more meaningful like Server Status Request or something, I would do all the changes on the wiki (not today though, going to bed soon :] )
01:04 <+pdelvo> ping is not only about time messurement but checkig if the other end point is running
01:04 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2059 3 files : Two-color IRC codes (foreground/background) are now handled correctly in IRC chat. Minor cleanup in IRC/Chat/Color classes.
01:05 < winny> yes however it's ambiguious
01:07 <+pdelvo> it is used for _ping_ing the servers in the _server list_. I think the name is clear and renaming it would confuse people more then it would help
01:07 < winny> hm
01:08 < winny> What about Ping Server
01:08 < winny> consider it's a phrase, one isn't pinging the server list, I suppose...
01:09 <+pdelvo> your term is even more ambiguous because it doesnt contain the information that it is used in the server list and it is not something related to the query protocol minecraft supports
01:10 < winny> Ah I don't want to go at this forever, but let me ask about one more: Server List Ping
01:11 < winny> oh dear, nvm
01:11 <+pdelvo> Im okay with that name :D
01:11 < winny> dyslexia at its best, that was all for nothing :(
01:11 < winny> regards. Happy sunday :)
01:12 <+pdelvo> gn8
01:23 < SinZ> server list ping is a good name for it
01:23 <+clonejo> There are actually many packets which could be given better names.
01:25 <+clonejo> or maybe not :P
01:25 <+clonejo> at least the names of several packets have been changed in the past
01:25 < dx> yeah, there were a few that had terrible names
01:26 <+clonejo> And I never updated the internal names in my protocol implementation.
01:26 <+pdelvo> or the packets got changed so the names didnt fit any longer
01:27 < dx> well, "Player" is still there, the one that only has a field that says "on ground"
01:27 <+clonejo> When would one even need that packet?
01:28 <+pdelvo> proxy developers need them... :(
01:30 <+clonejo> In which situation?
01:31 < SinZ> "Player" is basically a dead packet
01:32 < SinZ> as the other two packets both send it too
01:32 < SinZ> and only really needs to be sent in position
01:34 <+pdelvo> I have to redirect it. I dont actually know if it is used today, but it was used
01:37 <+clonejo> Entity action is C->S only but always includes the players eid.
01:38 <+clonejo> Also the held item field in player block placement could be stripped.
01:41 <+pdelvo> they are using USC-2 for strings.... every second byte can be stripped in strings
01:42 <+clonejo> The time update packet always transmit two times which usually differ by a constant value.
01:43 < dx> "usually"
01:43 < dx> you're assuming minecraft servers don't lag
01:44 <+clonejo> You could add another packet to change the offset.
01:44 <+clonejo> How is that affected by lag?
01:44 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2060 4 files : Hooked up all RealiticMapGenGUI input handlers.
01:44 < dx> the time is determined by ticks, not time, and ticks are execution cycles that run in the best case at 20 per second
01:44 < dx> if there's lag, it's less
01:46 <+clonejo> sure, but who cares if the sun moves a little bit slower, too?
01:47 < dx> well you gotta sync it in some way or the other. if a server dies for one minute during the minecraft dusk, the clients will continue advancing towards night, and when the server replies, they will sync back to daylight
01:48 < dx> that's an extreme example of course, but there are some awfully modded servers that actually have issues like that frequently :D
01:49 < dx> (i'm looking at you PEX and essentials)
01:51 < dx> sending some packet to change the 'offset' the client should use would only cover one use case, where the server has a fixed <20tps rate (which i can't imagine happening so consistently due to lag)
01:52 <+clonejo> Well, server admins tend to change the time of day manually.
01:54 < dx> and the current packet is perfect for that
01:56 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2061 2 files : The status strip in AddWorldPopup now shows an informative message when a MapGen preset has been loaded/applied successfully.
02:00 <+clonejo> Is player list item still sent every tick for each player?
02:02 < dav1d> clonejo: your working on the server :O
02:02 < dav1d> "the server"
02:03 <+clonejo> yup, but my last question is unrelated to that.
02:03 <+clonejo> The exams are coming soon, so I'm perfectly motivated to code.
02:04 < dav1d> haha
02:04 < dav1d> I am done!
02:04 < dav1d> :D
02:04 < dav1d> vacation
02:04 <+clonejo> :-)
02:04 <+clonejo> Where are you going?
02:05 < dav1d> ah I mean, uni vacation
02:05 < dav1d> not sure if I travel somewhere
02:05 < dx> motivated to code because you don't want to study? :D
02:06 <+clonejo> It's not that I don't want to.
02:07 <+clonejo> But whenever something will be due soon, I am motivated for everything else.
02:07 < dav1d> but you suck at it :>
02:07 < dx> :D
02:07 <+clonejo> ?
02:07 < dav1d> :D
02:07 < dx> :D
02:07 < dav1d>  +clonejo | It's not that I don't want to.
02:07 < dav1d> dav1d | but you suck at it :> 
02:07 <+clonejo> yup
02:07 < dav1d> :D
02:08 < dx> :D
02:08 <+clonejo> That's how procrastination works.
02:08 < dx> i used to be like that
02:08 <+clonejo> dx: until when?
02:08 < dx> now i don't even have that kind of motivation and lurk irc all day
02:08 <+clonejo> dx: That's what I do when nothing is due.
02:11 < dav1d> :>
02:11 <+clonejo> So in my holidays I sadly can't work on mc-erl.
02:12 < dav1d> why :O
02:13 <+clonejo> Without deadlines, I lack motivation for most stuff.
02:14 < dav1d> ←
02:14 <+pdelvo> for me too. I finished school and have so much time, but Im doing nothing
02:15 <+clonejo> So in the next semester holidays I want to work, slacking for 6-8 weeks sucks.
02:16 <+clonejo> dav1d: I finally fixed my Arch Linux.
02:17 < dav1d> o/
02:17 < dav1d> pdelvo: indeed
02:17 < dav1d> playing #wolfgame the whole day
02:17 <+pdelvo> Im playing feed the beast all day :D
02:17 <+clonejo> Using btrfs for the root partition turned out to be a bad idea.
02:18 <+pdelvo> Im acutally programming turtles, sometimes :D
02:19 <+clonejo> Hackerspaces can be pretty motivating, I think.
02:22 < dav1d> pdelvo: haha, that's what I am doing, too
02:22 < dav1d> when I am dead
02:22 < dav1d> -_-
02:23 < dav1d> pdelvo: https://github.com/Dav1dde/Playground/tree/master/turtles
02:23 < dav1d> xD
02:23 < dav1d> got two more, in my gists though
02:23 <+pdelvo> turtles are op if you can program :D
02:23 < SpaceManiac> I hate lua so I'm programming a CC alternative :P
02:23 < dav1d> CC sucks
02:24 < dav1d> api is just too limited, stuipiditly limited
02:24 < SinZ> thats when you just get addon mods, like OpenPeripheral, then you can do basically anything
02:25 <+pdelvo> it is already overpowered it is now :D
02:25 <+pdelvo> the cheapest rubber + rubberwood farm you can build
02:26 < dav1d> pdelvo: https://github.com/Dav1dde/Playground/blob/master/turtles/treefarm.lua <3 wood for years
02:27 <+pdelvo> do you use AE?
02:29 < dav1d> pdelvo: not yet
02:29 < dav1d> if AE = applied enegertics
02:29 < dav1d> I only started a few days ago
02:30 <+pdelvo> jeah. the best thing in the world :D
02:30 <+pdelvo> you can store millions of items in a single block
02:31 < dav1d> I built my own storage system
02:31 <+pdelvo> it can automaticly craft items
02:31 <+pdelvo> cock items
02:31 <+pdelvo> you can make it craft a ultimate hybrid solar panel by just having the basic materials :D
02:31 < dav1d> pdelvo: http://i.imgur.com/7Iln75U.jpg
02:31 < dav1d> pdelvo: gregtech?
02:32 < dav1d> this server is running direwolf
02:32 <+pdelvo> ah okay. Im running the ultimate pack
02:35 <+pdelvo> jeah i use gregtech. i think it is boring without
02:35 <+pdelvo> too easy to get end tier machines
02:35 < dav1d> ^
02:36 < dav1d> I totally agree there
02:37 <+pdelvo> how many stacks go into a barrel with the upgrade on it?
02:39 < SinZ> 1024 stacks iirc
02:39 < dav1d> pdelvo: 64
02:39 < dav1d> with the extended-barrel, 1024
02:39 <+pdelvo> I think with applied energistics you can store more then 60.000 stacks in one block
04:15 <+md_5> http://wiki.vg/MinecraftCoalition:Current_events
05:39 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2062 5 files : condensed a couple files in fCraft.GUI namespace
06:22 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2063 9 files : Implemented FlatMapGenGui
14:12 < dav1d> you can't believe how much I hate stairs
14:13 <+pdelvo> :D
14:13 < Yoshi2> can you describe how much you hate stairs in words?
14:14 <+pdelvo> have you tried to turn them off and on again?
14:14 < dav1d> no I can't
14:15 < Yoshi2> well, can you describe why you hate stairs so much?
14:15 < dav1d> Yoshi2: http://i.imgur.com/HFQqB46.png
14:15 < dav1d> explanation enough?
14:16 <+pdelvo> call it a feature :D
14:16 < Yoshi2> there seems to be a lot of z-fighting going on in that screenshot
14:17 < dav1d> na not z fighting
14:17 < dav1d> coordinates are fucked up
14:17 < dav1d> edges share the same texture coordinate
14:17 < dav1d> but I had it working -.-
14:18 < Yoshi2> does the top of the stairs also look like this?
14:18 < dav1d> nope
14:18 < dav1d> all other sides are fine
14:18 < dav1d> and I din't touch stairs at all
14:18 < dav1d> no idea why the freak out like that
14:19 < dav1d> gotta investigate what commit introduced that
14:19 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/LihS4g
14:19 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde 0269d71 - added some more new textures
14:19 < dav1d> 160 commits left :<
14:20 < dav1d> I assume this one -.- https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/commit/ba7c860dc19ac3574fe6a4de8ff28b0e297031fb
14:21 < dav1d> why always the big commits
14:25 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-0/±0] http://git.io/786T5w
14:25 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde 6cef072 - derp didn't add gfx/util.d
14:28 < dav1d> lol
14:28 <+pdelvo> fixed it?
14:28 < dav1d> no
14:28 < dav1d> but I can't test it
14:28 < dav1d> lol
14:29 < dav1d> because I updated to 1.6.2 but older commits require 1.5.1
14:31 < dav1d> object.Exception@/usr/include/d/std/getopt.d(422): Unrecognized option -a
14:31 < dav1d> :(
14:31 < dav1d> which loads login data from the new launcher profiles json
14:34 < dav1d> lol
14:34 < dav1d> n = s = cbsd.normal == Normal.Y_POSITIVE ? 1 : 0;
14:34 < dav1d> x + vertex[index_1]*width*n
14:34 < dav1d> should be -1
14:34 < dav1d> I think
14:35 < dav1d> yes
14:35 < Yoshi2> that looks a bit like voodoo magic to me
14:35 < dav1d> Yoshi2: it is :>
14:35 < dav1d> took me a looong time to finally get that right 
14:36 < dav1d> this code projects textures on vertices
14:36 <+pdelvo> put a "// I dont know why this works, so dont touch it" in it :D
14:36 < dav1d> I honestly can't remember what I did there
14:36 < dav1d> but it works
14:36 < dav1d> https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/brala/gfx/terrain.d#L151-L210
14:36 < dav1d> I documentated it but lol
14:36 < dav1d> no idea
14:37 < dav1d> line 174/175
14:37 < dav1d> xD
14:37 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/jP7LbQ
14:37 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde ad2ccb6 - fix fucking stairs
19:08 < ashka> hello there
19:08 <+pdelvo> hi!
19:08 < ashka> maybe I'm just blind but I can't find the event for the player tab list on the wiki
19:09 <+pdelvo> this packet is used for the list: http://wiki.vg/Protocol#Player_List_Item_.280xC9.29
19:10 <+pdelvo> and you may want to look into scoreboards if you want to display a number behin player names
19:10 < ashka> great, thanks
19:10 < ashka> no, I'm looking forward to modify their ping
19:10 <+pdelvo> okay thats easy
19:10 < ashka> is there somewhere I can find what are the ranges for the ping bars ?
19:11 <+pdelvo> I have the limits somewhere in my code. wait a second...
19:13 <+pdelvo> https://gist.github.com/pdelvo/2f176ae0832fb383ef57
19:14 <+pdelvo> the first method gives you the number of bars it shows for a specific ping. the second one gives you a ping you can send to show a specific number of bars
19:15 < ashka> thanks a lot
19:15 <+pdelvo> np :)
19:15 < ashka> btw, -1 is when the bar is crossed ?
19:15 <+pdelvo> jeah
19:23 < Drainedsoul> does the server really send that packet once per tick for every player?
19:23 < shoghicp> I think bukkit limits that
19:24 < shoghicp> I tried measuring that on bukkit, and the ping seems to be sent once
19:24 < Drainedsoul> "bukkit" isn't "the server" though
19:24 <+pdelvo> I hope not. Vanilla doesnt change the ping for a player as far as I know. each player get a value at spawn and it never changes if they havent changed that since I last looked into it
19:24 < shoghicp> yes, I only give the info I have ;)
19:24 < shoghicp> then as bukkit does right now
19:25 < Drainedsoul> wtf, why even bother having a ping if you don't update it
19:25 < shoghicp> the ping changes in the server, but it is not sent back (as far as I know)
19:25 < shoghicp> reconnecting reloads a new ping
19:26 <+pdelvo> I dont understand why they dont do that. I implemented that in a proxy of mine some months ago and it was very usefull to have a good view on the pings
19:27 < Drainedsoul> well is there even a vanilla way to retrieve the ping in the client?  I've never figured it out.  Can just see the green bars but that's pretty meaningless
19:28 <+pdelvo> the server is sending a value for the ping to the client for each player
19:28 <+pdelvo> but as I said it doesnt update it
19:28 < Yoshi2> the value is there, but I don't think there is a way to actually see it
19:29 <+pdelvo> not with an vanilla client
19:30 < Yoshi2> my bot had a command for viewing the ping of each player on the server, but I don't remember if the ping ever changed again
19:31 <+pdelvo> nope. if you press tab in minecraft you can see bars for the ping. they never change so the server doesnt send updated values. with my proxy I could just send a new packet with updated values and the client display them fine
19:35 < SinZ> AFAIK Vannila will update it, but pretty much every server mod removes the updater
20:07 < Valdiralita> is there a packet for light update? i cant find one
20:08 <+pdelvo> after the server initially send a chunk to the client both sides calculate light indipendently
20:08 < Valdiralita> oh, ok thanks
20:12 < Valdiralita> hm, thats not cool
21:03 < dreadiscool> Does anyone know how I can get rid of the Just another BungeeCord - Forced Host - motd?
21:04 < dreadiscool> I can't seem to find out how o_o
--- Day changed mar. juil. 09 2013
02:05 < frostyfrog> O_O
02:05 < frostyfrog> Thank you pdelvo for the link to wiki.vg! =D
02:07 < dx> wat?
03:25 < btilm305>  Is there a helper method that converts 1.6.1 json chat messages to legacy 1.5.2 chat messages?
03:36 < dav1d> oh right chat, need to implement that
03:38 < btilm305> ??
03:45 < frostyfrog> You could... write one yourself if there isn't one.
03:46 < btilm305> :O
03:46 < btilm305> insanity!
03:49 < dx> yeah, the worst you'll have to do is to manage a stack of applied colors, and every time you need to pop add a reset and re-add the others
03:50 < btilm305> :O
03:50 < dx> but that's for complex use cases, which you can clearly see that don't exist in vanilla since it was pretty broken before 1.6.2
03:50 < btilm305> and translations
03:50 < dx> translations are basic string formatting lol
03:52 < dx> well, actually
03:52 < btilm305> Wait what happened to this
03:52 < btilm305> https://gist.github.com/Dinnerbone/5631634
03:52 < dx> don't even bother doing the stack thing
03:52 < btilm305> This looks nothing like what the protocol actually is
03:53 < dx> er..
03:53 < dx> remove the pretty printing
03:53 < dx> and yes it's like that
03:56 < btilm305> There's no translate on chat messages
03:56 < btilm305> the heck?
03:56 < btilm305> not even join messages
03:56 < btilm305> did we get trolled or something
03:57 < mbaxter> btilm305: I hope you're not reading CraftBukkit packets for that...
03:57 < btilm305> I am
03:57 < btilm305> lol
03:57 < btilm305> does craftbukkit not conform to regularity?
03:57  * mbaxter places failhat upon btilm305 
03:57 < dx> loling
03:57 < btilm305> :\
03:58 < btilm305> Let me try a regular server
03:58 < btilm305> one sec
03:58 < mbaxter> Hell, we're not even sending proper json messages yet
03:58 < mbaxter> (Might not until strikethrough's added at least to the client, hint hint mojangstas)
03:58 < dx> mbaxter: you mean CBO or did you guys butcher NMS too?
03:59 < mbaxter> dx: butcher all the things!
03:59 < dx> \o/
03:59 < dx> well actually nms is in a different repo and is not human readable... so nevermind
03:59  * mbaxter can read it
03:59 < btilm305> CRAP mbaxter 
03:59 < dx> sorry, i meant 'human readable' for casual definitions of 'human'
04:00 < btilm305> I was excited!
04:00 < mbaxter> CB remains non-translated until a solution allowing for translations without breaking API presents itself or we decide to just break stuff, most likely.
04:00 < mbaxter> btilm305: It's not really a big deal until resource packs are properly supported anyhow :)
04:00 < btilm305> It is for me
04:00 < btilm305> It's stopping me from releasing my iOS chat client
04:00 < btilm305> SCREW MOJANG
04:01 < btilm305> Seriously... "chat.type.announcement"
04:03 < btilm305> Where do I find definitions for translations
04:04 < SinZ> chat.type.announcement is [%s] %s
04:04 < btilm305> Yeah but where do I find the list of them
04:04 < btilm305> in the client?
04:04 < btilm305> which file
04:04 < btilm305> :\
04:05 < SinZ> it would be in language
04:05 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 4 commits to master [+0/-0/±7] http://git.io/QBO8Fw
04:05 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde abef845 - nuke old code
04:05 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde 3c5a212 - add log_if
04:05 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde 7099be0 - fixed obvious bug ...
04:05 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde 7b40372 - updated submodules
04:05 < btilm305> client?
04:05 < dav1d> yes
04:05 < btilm305> ug
04:06 < dav1d> I wonder if you could crash the client with malformed json :>
04:06 < btilm305> Yay found it
04:06 < btilm305> Probably
04:06 < dav1d> btilm305: mcp?
04:06 < btilm305> as you can crash them by other means
04:07 < btilm305> No, language files aren't obfuscated
04:07 < dav1d> ah
04:07 < btilm305> IF they were it would be pointless
04:07 < dav1d> not sure if they hardcoded that :>
04:07 < dav1d> you never know
04:07 < dav1d> anyways too late, need to sleep
04:09 < SinZ> they don't
04:10 < SinZ> all the languages are on the assets server
04:11 < SinZ> http://s3.amazonaws.com/Minecraft.Resources/lang/en_GB.lang
04:13 < SinZ> though chat stuff isn't in language.. =S
04:16 < dx> http://beta.ceilingcat.ch/1.5.2...1.6.2#language
04:19 <+md_5> b.wiki.vg works again btw dx 
04:22 < mbaxter> The client will crash with json error upon getting invalid json, dav1d. Just an instant "nope"
04:23 < dx> md_5: it doesn't include anything except packets and protocol version
04:23 < dx> md_5: but the beta site does
04:23 <+md_5> http://teach.github.com/articles/book-authoring-using-git-and-github/
04:23 <+md_5> hm
04:24 <+md_5> thinking of writing a 'book' about the MC protocol
04:24 < dx> """book"""
04:31 < AlphaBlend> eh
04:31 < AlphaBlend> md_5: wat
04:46 < btilm305> I coded it customly
04:47 < btilm305> Took a crapton of reflections
04:59 < AlphaBlend> dav1d: tsk tsk tsk https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/commit/7099be0f43687e8a6751ab67f640b24bffc15e55
05:00 < AlphaBlend> choosing to develop in a particular style, and running into bugs because of it :(
05:00 < AlphaBlend> of course, i wouldn't blame you for having missed that if i put multiple statements on the same line and forgot braces :D
05:21 < dx> ha
05:21  * dx laughs at dav1d
05:21 < dx> not because of the bug itself, but for having chosen that style
05:27 < AlphaBlend> lol XD
05:27 < AlphaBlend> i'm sure he's experienced enough
05:27 < AlphaBlend> but that style can pop up bugs you don't intend
05:27 < dx> yeah
05:28 < AlphaBlend> i don't think i ever put more than one statement on a single line
05:28 < AlphaBlend> i'm used to having a block with a bracket on the same line the block starts at
05:28 < AlphaBlend> thing is i don't normally use brackets if the block has a single statement in it
05:29 < dx> alphablend left the channel accidentally, let's laugh at him while he's not here!
05:29  * dx lau-
05:29 < dx> dammit
05:29 < AlphaBlend> oh i left on accident
05:29 < AlphaBlend> wtf
05:29 < dx> i have no idea how you did that
05:30 < AlphaBlend> me neither...
05:30 < AlphaBlend> i think i hit a combo
05:30 < AlphaBlend> without realizing it LOL
05:30 < AlphaBlend> silly mIRC
05:30 < dx> a combo?
05:30 < AlphaBlend> key combination
05:30 < dx> do you think this is a game?
05:30 < AlphaBlend> eh, sorry XD
05:31 < dx> speaking of serious fucking business, i wonder if deoxxa is still alive
05:32 < AlphaBlend> who is that? I've heard of the name before, just don't know why i've heard of it
05:33 < dx> not sure what you would know him for, but he wrote libmcnet, a mc protocol parser in C which i particularly like for some reason
05:34 < dx> and it's stuck in 1.4.7
05:36 < dx> okay he's alive and writing stuff like this https://github.com/deoxxa/jesus/
05:38 < AlphaBlend> oh
05:38 < AlphaBlend> O_O
06:08 < btilm305> For all of those who assisted me earlier with chat messages: thanks, I ended up making my own system (copying and pasting from MCP :P), if anyone is interested in the jar contact me
07:07 < btilm305> IS it just me
07:07 < btilm305> or does 1.6.1's ping response give the old 1.3 format
07:08 < dx> derp
07:09 < dx> no it does not, that's just a bug with the vanilla client server list
07:09 < btilm305> :\
07:09 < dx> hence 1.6.2
07:09 < btilm305> this happens with 1.6.1 on craftbukkit also right?
07:09 < dx> it's the client
07:10 < dx> not the server
07:10 < btilm305> I don't care about the client
07:10 < btilm305> I'm reading the packet
07:10 < btilm305> It's giving 1.3 format
07:10 < btilm305> It doesn't give the server version or the protocol version
07:10 < dx> uhm
07:10 < btilm305> it just gives me the motd, and the player count
07:10 < dx> brb re-reading that.
07:14 <+md_5> btilm305 yeah its a bug in vanilla/craftbukkit 1.6.1
07:14 <+md_5> fixed in spigot 1.6.1, and vanilla/craftbukkit 1.6.2
07:15 < dx> yeah looks like i got the description of the bug wrong
07:15 < dx> it was just failing to read the schrodinger byte
07:15 <+md_5> nah
07:16 < btilm305> thanks md_5 :) stupid mojang
07:16 <+md_5> it was resetting the schrodinger byte if it failed to read the 0xFA
07:16 < btilm305> Wait, so if I include 0xFA, and make a three byte packet, it'll work?
07:16 < dx> md_5: oooh
07:16 < btilm305> Wait no that'll screw with everything else
07:16 <+md_5> you have to include the full 0xFA
07:16 < dx> md_5: right, that throws an exception too
07:16 < btilm305> :\
07:16 <+md_5> with MC|ping, the string etc
07:17 <+md_5> so more like a 50 byte packet :p
07:17 < dx> btilm305: why do you send something that doesn't fit the protocol description and expect it to work, anyway?
07:17 < btilm305> does it include the ip?
07:17 < btilm305> if so, bungee just got a whole lot cooler
07:17 < dx> lol
07:17 <+md_5> its only been in bungee for like 2 weeks
07:17 < btilm305> dx: because everyone expects the simplest form of cross-compatibility
07:18 < btilm305> nice
07:18 <+md_5> https://github.com/SpigotMC/BungeeCord/commit/632fa8bd94680421ce13d4868b030b7617b2e527
07:18 < btilm305> How does bungee read 1.6 chat messages
07:19 < btilm305> with all the json crap
07:19 <+md_5> it doesnt read server to client messages
07:22 < btilm305> Oh derp
07:22 < btilm305> That would be hard :\
08:23 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo pushed 14 commits to master [+2/-2/±17] http://git.io/-FVA9g
08:23 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] mappum e46a98a - Updated to protocol version 73 (1.6.1)
08:23 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] mappum 1df9f90 - Added tests for new datatypes
08:23 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo dcbaf38 - packet 0x27: leash from bool to int
08:23 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo 9c3f671 - packet 0x13: added jumpBoost field
08:23 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo 1ac3e12 - packet 0xfe (ping): updated to support 1.6.1
08:23 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo 058d6eb - packet 0x64 (OpenWindow): support for the optional entityId field
08:23 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo e46fd6f - packet 0x27: leash from int to ubyte
08:23 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo c9a081f - client ping fixed
08:23 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo 767f641 - improved 0x64 packet support, code refactorized using an optional_fields hash
08:23 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo cd6b27a - tests fixed: parse properly the new JSON chat messages
08:23 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo 634af71 - gitignore: added test/npm-debug.log
08:23 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo a4ba03d - remove .test.js.swp file
08:23 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo 8e02b4f - examples updated to work with 1.6.1
08:23 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo c7c4365 - README: version 1.6.1 support, examples updated
08:25 < frostyfrog> O.O
08:25 < frostyfrog> I want a bot like that.
08:29 <+ammar2> and you can have one like that
08:29 <+ammar2> thanks to the magic of notifico
08:29 <+ammar2> frostyfrog: http://n.tkte.ch/
10:21 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/POMl3A
10:21 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo 7df4073 - Release 0.11.0
10:21 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo tagged 7df4073 as 0.11.0 http://git.io/s5334Q
11:18 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/mgq3Tg
11:18 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo fe38206 - README: server example code little typo fixed
11:26 < ffmdr> https://github.com/MinecraftForge/FML/commit/c997f2adbc4c11cd8c2abe5f82ccd00b0e954b68 - lol what. I don't even...
11:30 <+md_5> fml.ignoreInvalidMinecraftCertificates  #yolo
11:31 < ffmdr> forge sucks
11:32 < ffmdr> can't get 1.6.2 forge to work
11:38 < ffmdr> forge now wraps minecraft launching and is patching classes on runtime so jar signature still matches #yolo
11:50 <+md_5> ffmdr its ALWAYS done that
11:53 < ffmdr> md_5: yes but now there are these shitty binpatches
11:53 <+md_5> ?
11:54 < jast> hashtags in IRC? are you on drugs? :P
11:55 < ffmdr> md_5: before it was like any other mod with patched minecraft classes
11:56 <+md_5> and now it does that still?
11:56 <+md_5> the classes are just injected at runtime
11:57 < ffmdr> I don't see what was the problem with normal class files like in 1.5.2 forge
11:58 <+md_5> oh
11:59 <+md_5> the forge team loves making work for themselves
12:00 < ffmdr> indeed
12:00 <+md_5> ffmdr its because they want to package as little of MC as possible
12:00 <+md_5> hence why the source is .patch files
12:00 < ffmdr> ah lets compare file sizes
12:01 < ffmdr> 2.0MB vs 1.8MB
12:01 <+md_5> they should have used beat
12:02 <+md_5> https://github.com/md-5/jbeat
12:06 < ffmdr> new forge has permanently broken magiclauncher support
12:06 <+md_5> LOL
12:06 <+md_5> nah
12:06 <+md_5> magic launcher just cant into forge
12:07 < ffmdr> forge support was very good before forge broke everything
12:08 <+md_5> - Use the official launcher to start once Minecraft with the Forge profile.
12:08 <+md_5> - Click "Setup"
12:08 <+md_5> - Select Environment "Forge9.10.X.Y"
12:08 <+md_5> - Click "Advanced"
12:08 <+md_5> - In the field "Parameters" add "-Dfml.ignorePatchDiscrepancies=true"
12:08 <+md_5> thats it
12:09 < ffmdr> meh shitty forge installer
12:10 <+md_5> I've always disliked the way forge was done
12:10 <+md_5> sure the bytecode patching and stuff is nice, but now thats basically half of what mods are about
12:12 < ffmdr> I thing I like about forge is runtime deobf
12:12 < ffmdr> one thing*
12:15 < superjoe> I just looked at the new json for chat messages
12:15 < superjoe> ...the fuck?
12:15 < ffmdr> indeed my friend
12:15 < superjoe> at first I was like hey cool they're being less retarded about the protocol finally
12:15 < jast> 'fml' is such a nice project name
12:16 < superjoe> and then I was like (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
12:16 < superjoe> jast, is 'fml' your project name?
12:17 <+md_5> no
12:17 <+md_5> FML - forge
12:17 < Yoshi2> superjoe: forge mod launcher
12:17 < superjoe> ah
12:17 <+md_5> loader I think
12:17 < jast> a subsidiary of fmylife.com
12:18 < ffmdr> superjoe:  ┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ)
12:18 < superjoe> haha
12:20 < Yoshi2> I wish I could trow over my table
12:21 < Yoshi2> but the legs are stabilized behind a piece of furniture, so moving it is very difficult
12:21 < ffmdr> also does anyone know what was the problem with 1.6.1 mcp mappings?
12:23 <+md_5> yea
12:23 <+md_5> there were some duplicates
12:24 < ffmdr> what exactly was duplicated
12:25 <+md_5> mappings
12:25 <+md_5> ie one to many
12:26 < ffmdr> lol
12:29 < ffmdr> so thats why optifine update started with 'fixing mcp mappings'
12:36 < ffmdr> md_5: iirc you were saying some time ago that you wanted to get spigot on mcp bukkit, right?
12:36 <+md_5> mm
12:36 < ffmdr> any progress on this D: ?
12:40 < ffmdr> @md_5
12:59 <+md_5> no, still gotta decide when/if  -- breaking NMS plugins is an issue
13:05 < ffmdr> maybe runtime deobfuscation forge-style if you really care about NMS plugins
13:05 < ffmdr> https://bitbucket.org/mstrobel/procyon/wiki/Java%20Decompiler - that's pretty cool! It aims to be better than fernflower and open source.
13:09 < ffmdr> throwing minecraft at it :D
13:13 < ffmdr> it handled it pretty well
13:15 < Yoshi2> but can you recompile the decompiled code and receive a running programm again?
13:17 < ffmdr> Yoshi2: shhh
13:20 < ffmdr> Yoshi2: I'll try to recompile in a moment
13:23 < Yoshi2> I know that JAD couldn't create compileable code when I decompiled a classic minecraft launcher to change a bit of code two years ago
13:31 < ffmdr> if it could decompile minecraft as good as fernflower...
13:33 < ffmdr> ok let's decompile it and use srg2source on it
13:34 < ffmdr> meh decompiler errors
13:38 < ffmdr> on the class it fails, jd-gui segfaults 
13:41 < dav1d> jd-gui segfaults? o.O
13:41 < dav1d> isn't it written in java?
13:43 < ffmdr> no
13:43 < ffmdr> it is c++ with gtk
13:43 < dav1d> mh then it's a conicidence that it has the same ugly style as java for me
13:44 < jast> you can write java in any language :/
15:19 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 3 commits to master [+1/-0/±6] http://git.io/wS0m4w
15:19 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde 338b28a - Add segfault handler on linux
15:19 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde 53e9e14 - add is_running to snooper
15:19 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde ba62172 - make module-ctor registering segfault handler shared
16:46 < ffmdr> is Minecraft.Download a maven repo?
17:20 < TkTech> I'll be moving wiki.vg today.
17:21 < TkTech> kev009 has been a good host but has been hard to get a hold of and doesn't appear to have time to commit towards it, such as fixing mail verification and adding CAPTCHA to slow the account spam.
17:22 < TkTech> Any objections, suggestions or other comments, let me know in the next few hours.
17:25 <+pdelvo> are you hosting it now?
17:26 < TkTech> No, kev009 is.
17:26 < iBotPeaches> I think he meant now as in, after the move :)
17:26 < TkTech> (And he's also refused to redirect mc.kev009.com to wiki.vg, so we have duplicate domains and thousands of mixed up links.
17:27 < dav1d> TkTech: are you going to host it?
17:27 <+pdelvo> who is hosting it after the move :D So we know who to ping if it is down :D
17:27 < dav1d> I think he meant that
17:27 < TkTech> Myself, it will be on ec2 on its own instance and a few others will have shell access to assist when I'm not around.
17:30 < iBotPeaches> sounds good
17:32 <+ammar2> TkTech: I see a fair bit of people who still use the old mc.kev009 link, what about them
17:34 < TkTech> ammar2: Dem' be fucked, aye.
17:34 < TkTech> I've asked kev009 many, many times to set it up to redirect to the main domain.
17:34 < TkTech> Or at least add a robot.txt so google stops indexing it.
17:35 <+ammar2> suppose so. We could add a notice on top of the wiki if kev doesn't mind I guess
17:37 < buttscicles> could replace the wiki landing page with a html redirect or something
17:38 < TkTech> Don't think anyone has enough access to the templates to do that.
17:38 < TkTech> I'm going to do a 3-year reserved large instance.
17:38 < TkTech> Which should be enough for us to grow for quite awhile.
17:39 < mbaxter> Can't you add a giant notice on the old?
17:39 < TkTech> That we can probably do, plus protect all the main pages.
17:54 < ffmdr> is it possible to use minecraft.download from s3 in maven as dependency?
17:57 < ffmdr> could not find anything after googling 'maven dependency from http'
18:40 < ffmdr> is it a bug that minecraft is trying to set window icon to file which doesn't exist ?
18:41 < ffmdr> Display.setIcon(new ByteBuffer[] {this.func_110439_b(new File(this.field_110446_Y, "/icons/icon_16x16.png")), this.func_110439_b(new File(this.field_110446_Y, "/icons/icon_32x32.png"))});
18:42 < Dinnerbone> You don't have icons/icon_16x16.png when you run it using our launcher, ffmdr?
18:42 < Dinnerbone> Inside assets
18:43 < ffmdr> well I am pretty sure it isn't inside assets directory in jar
18:43 < Dinnerbone> No not in the jar
18:43 < Dinnerbone> In .minecraft/assets/
18:43 < Dinnerbone> Which is kept up to date using the launcher
18:46 < ffmdr> ah it's downloaded by the launcher (I was developing with MCP)
18:46 < ffmdr> but launching with minecraft launcher gives me ? icon on taskbar
18:46 < Dinnerbone> OS?
18:46 < ffmdr> ubuntu, unity
18:50 < ffmdr> I understand that lang files are updated often, but what's the deal with sounds? They were always downloaded separately or in background
19:24 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 3 commits to master [+0/-0/±5] http://git.io/1Aa07w
19:24 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde fb90b40 - prettify build_brala.d output
19:24 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde 36a9c27 - build glfw in build_brala.d, add "clean" option
19:24 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde 6c1baec - implemented gdc and ldc for build_brala
19:25 < SinZ> sounds have no need to be outdated
19:29 < ffmdr> so why they aren't in minecraft.jar/assets
19:46 <+clonejo> ffmdr: So you don't have to download them with every update.
19:53 < SinZ> they are in assets
19:53 < SinZ> assets are NOT in the jar
20:22 < ffmdr> assets are in jar
20:22 < ffmdr> there are jar assets and launcher assets
21:55 < TkTech> And I'm back, minus about $600-$700.
21:55 < TkTech> We have a large and beefy database server reserved for 3 years.
21:56 < mbaxter> neato
21:56 < TkTech> And a couple of mediums reserved for 3 years for the wiki itself.
21:57 <+sadimusi> very nice
21:57 < TkTech> Would anyone object to me adding a small donation button in the corner of the landing page once everything is smooth and going? Unlikely to get more than $1 but worth a try.
21:58 < TkTech> Oh, and I'll plop znc on one of them to save myself money on a micro instance which anyone in #mcdevs can use.
21:58 < TkTech> (Again, assuming no one objections. I prefer when the majority rules for mcdevs issues)
21:58 <+clonejo> TkTech: Do you know Flattr?
21:59 < TkTech> clonejo: I do, I thought it was dead?
21:59 < dexter00> so if we donate we can get a bouncer account?
21:59 < TkTech> dexter00: You can get a bouncer anyways, assuming you don't just join #mcdevs, get one, and leave.
21:59 < TkTech> I'll never make anyone pay for community stuff.
22:10 < ffmdr> is it possible to remap mods from one minecraft versions to another using SpecialSource?
22:11 < ffmdr> 1.6.1 obf'd name -> MCP name -> 1.6.2 obf'd name
22:11 < TkTech> dexter00: Actually, do you think that's a good incentive?
22:12 < TkTech> dexter00: One time donation (of any amount) for a lifetime bouncer?
22:12 < dexter00> I'd donate for that.
22:15 < TkTech> I'll work that out once the wiki is all properly set up. Need to integrate it a bit to make it 100% transparent.
22:24 < ffmdr> I tried to remap modloader from 1.6.1 to 1.6.2 with SpecialSource. It crashes on game start, so close :D
22:24 < ffmdr> ping md_5
22:26 < Morrolan> Moving to a new wiki?
22:27 < Yoshi2> Morrolan: more importantly, moving to a new server
22:28 < Morrolan> Is the old one unreliable, or not getting paid for anymore?
22:29 < TkTech> Maintainer is more or less AWOL, and every time it's gone down we haven't been able to reach him for more than a day.
22:29 < TkTech> Plus various other issues, like not redirecting mc.kev009, fixing verification mails, captcha to help with the spam
22:29 < TkTech> Not giving anyone else access to the server
22:30 < Morrolan> Ah, that's quite annoying.
22:30 < TkTech> I've moved it to EC2 and gotten 3 year reservations on a large instance for the database and workers and a 3 year reservation for a couple of mediums for the wiki proper.
22:31 < TkTech> Which should be ample room for us to grow going forward, and a few volunteers that have been around forever and are willing to swap contact details will be given access to the wiki servers as well.
22:31 < TkTech> Hopefully across multiple time zones.
22:36 <+clonejo> I'm UTC+1/2.
22:44 < SinZ> I'm UTC+10/11
22:46 <+sadimusi> UTC +1/2 as well here
22:46 <+sadimusi> or should it be UTC + 1.5 ± 0.5?
22:47 <+pdelvo> I think it would be better to write the times everyone is around then just posting time zones :D
22:47 < TkTech> Anyone whose interested in volunteering should email me (tk@tkte.ch) with their timezone, nickname here, and contact (email, phone, name).
22:48 <+clonejo> s/whose/who is/
22:49 < iBotPeaches> kansas <3
23:00 < [Frost]> Do empty chunks still take as much disk space as completely full ones?
23:01 < [Frost]> I recall they used to
23:02 < ffmdr> I don't think so
23:04 < Yoshi2> I'm sure that the chunks are compressed before storing them on the disk drive, so they shouldn't take up so much space
23:05 < Thinkofdeath> Also empty sections (16x16x16) are not saved if they are all air
23:06 < ffmdr> does anyone have modloader src code?
23:07 < dx> modloader still exists?
23:07 < dx> i thought they replaced it with forge
23:07 < ffmdr> forge is a cancer
23:08 < ffmdr> can I use forge mod loader without this fancy runtime patching and deobfuscation shit?
23:10 < dx> probably, but this is the wrong place to ask about that stuff
23:10 < ffmdr> right
23:11 < dx> you'll have to deal with the cancer, sorry :(
23:11 < dx> i think i'm banned from the forge channel because someone told me to join, ping some guy called "mexlanos" and see what happens
23:12 < ffmdr> haha
23:12 < ffmdr> lexmanos*
23:12 < dx> close enough
23:12 < ffmdr> I think I could copy FML source code and apply patches on MCP
23:15 < [Frost]> To all whom interested: $ ls -l | awk '{sum += $5} END { print "Average region file size = ", sum/NR}'
23:15 < [Frost]> Average region file size =  2.10697e+06
23:16 < [Frost]> 2009.4MB, could that be right?
23:16 < [Frost]> Nevermind, not really
23:25 < [Frost]> Miscalculating, 2MB is the average for my server
23:47 < winny> did anybody notice that when a minecraft client sends Server List Pings, it appears to try different revisions?
23:56 < [Frost]> winny, do you mean the pre-1.3 format?
23:57 < winny> i'll share my wireshark pcap
23:57 < [Frost]> Any idea how much ram 1000 chunks use by the way?
23:57 < dx> depends on the implementation
23:58 < [Frost]> .mca, unedited spigot
23:58 < dx> 'unedited' lol
23:59 < dx> well bukkit and spigot have some nice 'palette' of blocks so... it also depends on the amount of block types inside those chunks
23:59 < dexter00> the on disk format has nothing to do with RAM consumed when it is loaded.
--- Day changed mer. juil. 10 2013
00:02 < winny> https://bytesadism.org/~winston/upload/minecraft.pcapng.gz
00:02 < [Frost]> dx, obviously, not edited BY US
00:03 < winny> the data sent over ipv6 is not the minecraft client, but me testing some php functions I wrote
00:03 < dx> [Frost]: yes i know, but spigot probably has a bunch of optimizations in that area, so.. you should be asking them, not us
00:03 < dx> although some spigot devs are lurking here
00:16 < winny> also it's awfully weird how all these packets have bad cheksums
00:17 < winny> oh, nevermind
00:18 < winny> presumably it's because it's on loopback?
00:20 < TkTech> Revision history for Protocol is huuuuuuge.
00:21 < SinZ> there is some duplicate stuff in the protocol history page though
00:21 < TkTech> It seems like the normal page import process replays the history on a page, so it's taking quite some time.
00:22 < TkTech> Only up to April 2012
00:22 <+md_5> <TkTech> [06:09:02] dexter00: One time donation (of any amount) for a lifetime bouncer?
00:23 <+md_5> considering I have been running  a free bouncer service with around 30-40 active users over the last three months, complete with custom RDNS, I think no
00:24 < TkTech> md_5: Sorry, what?
00:24 <+md_5> I dont see why you should need to pay for a bouncer
00:24  * md_5 stares at all the free bouncer services
00:24 < TkTech> I think you should read the backlog and not skim it.
00:26 <+md_5> <ffmdr> [06:07:57] is it possible to remap mods from one minecraft versions to another using SpecialSource?
00:26 <+md_5> ffmdr yeah its possible
00:26 <+md_5> basically
00:26 <+md_5> get modloader in Searge form
00:27 <+md_5> and then get the 1.6.2 searge to obf   (java -jar SpecialSoruce.jar --reverse joined.srg -s mcp2obf.srg)
00:27 <+md_5> and then apply those mappins
00:27 <+md_5> if any method paramaters changed though, it will break for obvious reasons
00:33 <+clonejo> Stance and Y aren't swapped anymore in Player Look, are they?
00:35 <+md_5> nope
01:36 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/7qYX-Q
01:36 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn abed89f - Fix build problems
01:46 < barneygale> so is anyone building anything interesting?
01:48 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±5] http://git.io/BpHGEw
01:48 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 357b393 - Tabs to spaces
01:51 < dx> barneygale: i joined #ModCubeWorld on esper which is a surprisingly big group of people wanting to mod a minecraft-like game that was released last week or so. i wanted to check their network protocol but they are working on it already
01:52 < dx> aaaand it looks pretty shitty already https://github.com/Project-Kube/Project-Kube/wiki/Network-Protocol
01:53 < dav1d> dx: well it isn't minecrafty at all?
01:53 < dx> dav1d: i think you got the negations backwards there
01:53 < dav1d> eh
01:53 < dav1d> it is minecrafty
01:53 < dx> yeah
01:53 < dav1d> but not like minecraft
01:54 < dav1d> simply voxelbased
01:54 < dx> oh, that, i thought you meant the protocol
01:54 < dav1d> project-kube.de – german :>
01:54 < barneygale> crikey
01:54 < dx> yeah the only thing it has in common with minecraft is the voxels
01:54 < dx> ...and the shitty protocol design
01:54 < barneygale> remember when we used to figure out the minecraft protocol mostly-by-hand, without burger and often without decompiling?
01:54 < barneygale> dark days
01:55 < dx> heh, i wasn't around for that
01:55 < dx> this one isn't even java, so yeah, looks like it will be mostly by hand too
01:55 < barneygale> ah it thought you were quite an oldy
01:56 < dx> --- Log opened Sun Feb 06 23:00:41 2011
01:56 < dx> not *that* old
01:56 < barneygale> not too far off me, I was dec 2010 iirc
01:56 < barneygale> how long has this channel been around?
01:57 < dx> Registered : Dec 06 11:23:10 2010 (2 years, 30 weeks, 6 days, 12:33:42 ago)
01:57 < dx> well uh..
01:57 < barneygale> hah yes!
01:57 <+Ac-town> good ol' days
01:57 < dx> maybe i am old after all
01:57 < dav1d> dx: but a different nick?
01:58 < dav1d> dx doesn't sound that familiar
01:58 < dav1d> dequis neither
01:58 <+Ac-town> dx: cubeworld might have the same effect as minecraft
01:58 < dx> nah, i just lurked constantly and rarely talked
01:58 < dav1d> but I am just a newbi
01:58 <+Ac-town> its two dudes atm and they really need help with the website/server
01:58 <+Ac-town> but they don't want help
01:58 < dx> Ac-town: indeed
01:58 <+Ac-town> so people can only buy the game in short spurts
01:58 <+Ac-town> it's very funny to watch
01:58 < dx> well, one dude and his wife
01:59 <+Ac-town> don't forget the ddoses
01:59 < dav1d> man how would I like to be this "dude"
01:59 < dav1d> not cube world in particular, but a project, my own project, which people enjoy
01:59 <+Ac-town> dx: s/dude/two people/
01:59 < dx> brala enterprise edition
01:59 < dav1d> just a toy and a copy 
01:59 < dav1d> no original idea
02:00 < dx> well there are tons of minecraft clones that people ignored
02:00 < dx> it's rare to see one that 'succeeds' like it seems to have happened with this one
02:00 < dav1d> yeah
02:00 < barneygale> yeah minecraft caught on because it was different, not because lol blocks
02:00 <+Ac-town> there was ace of spades that was okay
02:00 <+Ac-town> then jagex bought them and fucked it up
02:00 < dx> yeah ace of spades was sort of promising
02:01 <+Ac-town> looked cool, worked well
02:01 <+Ac-town> but didn't go any where and then jagex remade it in java I think?
02:01 <+Ac-town> not sure
02:01 <+Ac-town> but its on steam now lol
02:01 < dx> lol
02:02 < TkTech> dx: Nope, you're young. :)
02:02 < TkTech> dx: This channel used to be #mcc on freenode, and before that #mcc on esper.
02:02 < barneygale> that explains it
02:02 < dx> TkTech: oh okay, thought so
02:03 <+md_5> what language is cubeworld
02:03 < barneygale> I didn't think I joined when it was new hah
02:03 < TkTech> Okay guys, time to break the wiki! http://beta.wiki.vg/
02:03 < dx> md_5: c++ i think
02:03 <+Ac-town> md_5: I think C#
02:03 <+Ac-town> but i'm not sure
02:03 < dav1d> xD
02:03 < TkTech> This is the beta and could use a few people to play around with it to find any bugs.
02:04 <+Ac-town> they hard coded the port for the games networking
02:04 < barneygale> TkTech: what's different?
02:04 < TkTech> The biggest change is that by default your accounts are no longer autoconfirmed.
02:04 < barneygale> oh thank fuck for that
02:04 < TkTech> Any confirmed user can confirm any other user.
02:04 < dav1d> do the old still exist?
02:04 <+md_5> where is the buy button
02:04 < barneygale> I for one welcome the return of a usable Special:RecentChanges
02:04 < dx> md_5: it's hidden, you can't buy it
02:04 < TkTech> dav1d: Yes, I won't swap the domains until it's stable.
02:04 <+md_5> wat
02:04 <+md_5> then how do I play it
02:04 < dav1d> k
02:04 <+Ac-town> for cubeworld? they only have registration/buy for a short period of time
02:05 <+Ac-town> before they claim "ddos"
02:05 <+md_5> ....
02:05 <+Ac-town> or server issues of some sort
02:05 < dx> md_5: apparently the server can't handle the traffic of people buying it, so it's either borrow account from a friend or use it illegally
02:05 <+Ac-town> its funny to watch
02:05 <+md_5> great business model
02:05 < dav1d> wasn't that on kickstarter?
02:05 < dx> yeah it's terrible
02:05 < dav1d> also their html is broken
02:05 <+md_5> hm
02:05 <+Ac-town> the main dude hasn't said anything on twitter for a few days
02:05 <+md_5> what if I ddos them until they let me buy it
02:05 <+md_5> O.PO
02:05 <+Ac-town> and his network graphs showed up to 100mbps
02:05 <+Ac-town> which isn't much...
02:05 < dav1d> http://vp.dav1d.de/img/Bx8 fix pls
02:06 <+Ac-town> md_5: yeah, they'll just keep having this issue
02:06 < dx> Ac-town: it's enough if you have only one pipe on a cheap server lol
02:06 <+Ac-town> granted it makes it seem like its harder to get
02:06 <+md_5> Cloudflare!
02:06 <+Ac-town> so theres hype
02:06 <+md_5> I love how my server actually gets more than the 100mbps I pay for :D
02:06 <+Ac-town> yeah I suggested that
02:06 < dx> yeah, cloudflare ftw
02:06 < dav1d> there is a lot of hype
02:06 < dav1d> like 5 mindcrackers started it
02:06 <+Ac-town> but really, you can get a gig serer for cheap
02:06 < dav1d> that's like a half million viewers seeing it
02:06 < dav1d> which are telling friends and so on
02:06 <+Ac-town> s/serer/server/
02:06 < dav1d> and that is only mindcrack
02:07 < TkTech> I remember mindcrack, DDoS'd me like 20 times.
02:07 <+md_5>  Login error
02:07 <+md_5> There is no user by the name "md_5". Usernames are case sensitive. Check your spelling, or create a new account.
02:07 < TkTech> md_5: Accounts be purged, mon. Can't get on the original server, can't get the original accounts.
02:07 < TkTech> On the plus side, that nukes the 500+ spam accounts.
02:07 <+md_5> ...............................................................................................................................................................
02:07 < dx> what about edit history of posts?
02:08 < TkTech> Edit history is still there except for the main page.
02:08 <+md_5> so if I create an account of the same name I will keep my massive contributions list :3
02:08 < TkTech> Correct.
02:08 <+md_5> also no email
02:08 <+md_5> (when registering no field to enter email)
02:08 < TkTech> Correct, no buggy, usually broken email confirmation.
02:09 <+md_5> http://beta.wiki.vg/Special:Contributions/Md_5
02:09 <+md_5> confirm please
02:09 < TkTech> The idea is that any user here can confirm anyone that asks.
02:09 < dav1d> TkTech: how can they ddos you?
02:09 < TkTech> dav1d: They linked to my skins site once upon a time in their video descriptions.
02:09 < dx> there, i'm "dx"
02:09 < dav1d> haha
02:09 < Drainedsoul> wait why is there a beta wiki
02:09 < dx> TkTech: so that's like saying that dinnerbro or jeb ddos'd you
02:10 < dx> lol.
02:10 < TkTech> Don't think either of them played Minecraft at that point.
02:10 <+md_5> Number of edits:	0 
02:10 <+md_5> .).
02:10 < TkTech> dx & md_5, confirmed.
02:10 < dav1d> http://beta.wiki.vg/User:Dav1d
02:10 <+md_5> ty
02:10 < dav1d> TkTech: ^
02:10 < dx> \o/
02:10 < dx> i don't like how mediawiki always capitalizes the 'd' in my name
02:10 < dav1d> http://beta.wiki.vg/Special:Contributions/Dav1d
02:10 < TkTech> md_5: I'll try to update the counts, still going through all the tools.
02:10 <+md_5> edits didnt come over |:|
02:11 < dav1d> if that link means somehting lol
02:11 < dx> TkTech: also edit history of the main page seems to sort-of still be there
02:11 <+md_5> yeah http://beta.wiki.vg/Special:Contributions/Md_5
02:11 < dav1d> mh
02:11 < TkTech> md_5: Edits are there, http://beta.wiki.vg/index.php?title=Protocol&action=history
02:11 < dav1d> I didn't have to enter my email?
02:12 < dx> i think i just confirmed dav1d
02:12 < dav1d> lol
02:12 < dav1d> ?
02:12 < dx> unless someone else did before
02:12 <+md_5> make it reindex all contriutions?
02:12 < dav1d> should I get a notice?
02:12 < TkTech> dav1d: You did, correct.
02:12 < Drainedsoul> can I be confirmed :>
02:12 < TkTech> md_5: That's what I'm looking for, as I said.
02:12 < dav1d> TkTech: what?
02:12 < dav1d> TkTech: I didn't enet an email
02:12 < dav1d> *enter
02:12 < dav1d> I'd remember that, hopefully
02:12 < TkTech> dav1d: Sorry, meant to say *dx: You did, correct.
02:12 < dav1d> ah
02:12 < dx> Drainedsoul: done
02:12 < barneygale> http://beta.wiki.vg/User:barneygale
02:13 < barneygale> please confirm
02:13 < dx> done
02:13 < barneygale> thanks!
02:13 < Drainedsoul> "{"text":[{"bold":true,"text":["Drainedsoul"]},{"bold":true,"text":[":"]}," ","broken"]}" <== anyone have any idea why this comes out all bold?
02:13  * dx is doing this just to feel like he has some sort of power
02:13 < TkTech> You don't need to enter an email any more. You just follow the link on the login page and ask for confirmation from any existing confirmed user.
02:13 < TkTech> It's basically MediaWiki's "manual confirmation" process, except crowdsourced.
02:14 < dav1d> I think I just found a bug
02:14 < dav1d> http://beta.wiki.vg/Special:Preferences/Barneygale as user *dav1d*
02:14 < dav1d> it shows me the status of barneygale but with my name
02:15 < dx> it's probably because you can't edit the preferences of other people
02:15 < TkTech> Pretty sure that's just a MediaWiki thing.
02:15 < barneygale> yeah dav1d 
02:15 < barneygale> not a hole I don't think
02:15 < dav1d> interesting
02:15 < barneygale> try and edit me if you want tho
02:15 < dx> how did you get that link?
02:15 < dav1d> barneygale: did your theme just change?
02:15 < dav1d> dx: copy&paste
02:15 < dav1d> just messing around
02:16 < barneygale> nope
02:16 < dx> lol
02:16 < dav1d> I changed the theme
02:16 < dav1d> ok
02:16 < barneygale> did yours? because otherwise themes aren't working :P
02:16 < dav1d> yes
02:16 < dav1d> well
02:16 < dx> anyway http://beta.wiki.vg/Special:UserRights
02:16 < dav1d> the theme is broken
02:16 < TkTech> It doesn't matter what's after it. http://beta.wiki.vg/Special:Preferences/dfewfriejwfie
02:16 < dx> this is the url to approve new users
02:16 < dav1d> TkTech: I could see his status
02:16 < TkTech> No, you saw your own.
02:16 < dav1d> strange
02:16 < dav1d> no
02:16 < dav1d> I was confirmed, but I saw unconfirmed
02:16 < dav1d> maybe someone was messing with my rights?
02:17 < dav1d> anyways doesn't matter I guess
02:17 < dx> well, i can't unconfirm
02:17 < TkTech> dx: Correct.
02:17 < TkTech> (That's intentional and it tells you as much on the rights page :P)
02:18 < dx> yep, it's pretty obvious "Groups you cannot change"
02:18 < dx> it would be like giving anyone the right to ban users
02:18 < TkTech> I think this should work okay. It's a 3 second process and there's what, 100+ of us?
02:19 < TkTech> Eliminates spam and makes sure new users know the channel exists.
02:19 < dx> yeah, seems perfect to me
02:19 < dav1d> that's why you want it so bad mh mh mhhhhhhhhh
02:21 < dx> TkTech: you might want to add the UserRights url to the topic
02:21 < dav1d> why?
02:22 < dav1d> enough people know of it already, if the voiced know that, that's enough?
02:22 < TkTech> I'm moving mcdevs.org to wiki.vg as well, will detail the process on there.
02:23 < TkTech> After the 3 year reservation costs and the costs for this month, I'll be paying $800 this month.
02:23 < TkTech> So the more servers I can eliminate the better :)
02:24 < dx> is mcdevs.org anything other than a few static pages?
02:24 < TkTech> Nope!
02:24 < TkTech> Just a handful of markdown files.
02:24 < TkTech> Really the only thing that needs to be ported is the channel rules.
02:24 < TkTech> And probably the intro blurb.
02:24 < dav1d> phew
02:25 < TkTech> I'm heading home now, if anyone can think of any changes they'd like that could improve it, or if anyone could be kind enough to copy over the mcdevs.org related stuff that would be fantastic.
02:27 < dav1d> suddenly silence :>
02:28 < dx> copy over? errr how
02:28 < Drainedsoul> since there's silence maybe someone could look at my JSON question :>
02:28 < dx> json? what's that?
02:28 < dx> we don't talk about json here
02:28 < Drainedsoul> U+00A7 formatting 4eva?
02:28 < dx> of course!
02:29 < Drainedsoul> the U+00A7 system would've been fine if it had reasonable escaping and behaviour
02:31 < dx> agree
02:32 < dx> that message needs either an "i" at the beginning or a "d" at the end.
02:32 < dx> but whatever.
02:33 < dx> Drainedsoul: it wouldn't have solved the problem with translations anyway
03:06 < TkTech> dx: … copy paste ...
03:11 < dx> TkTech: to the wiki?
03:11 < dexter00> Can I get a confirmation pls? http://beta.wiki.vg/User:Dexter0
03:12 < dx> done
03:12 < dexter00> ty
03:15 < Drainedsoul> So no one knows why the text is all bold? :<
03:16 < dx> actually i didn't even read the original question
03:18 < dx> Drainedsoul: okay, reviewed your json, and there's something i can say for sure
03:18 < dx> Drainedsoul: i have no idea what's wrong with it
03:19 < dx> Drainedsoul: but now i'm really curious to read how the client parses this crap (or the server, for that matter.)
03:23 < Drainedsoul> Okay just wanted to make sure I wasn't insane, I'll fool around with it
03:23 < Drainedsoul> thanks >: ]
03:28 < dx> Drainedsoul: but yeah, the reason they picked json was because "writing a markup parser doent take 5 minutes". so yeah, this isn't surprising at all.
03:34 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 2 commits to fucksignals [+0/-0/±6] http://git.io/R2RqgQ
03:34 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde 163c691 - updated glwtf, using glwtf.signals instead of std.signals
03:34 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde 8483f56 - lolshit
03:35 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±3] http://git.io/MPG8Vg
03:35 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde 163c691 - updated glwtf, using glwtf.signals instead of std.signals
03:54 < Drainedsoul> as always, Mojang's decision-making process and execution is impeccable.
03:55 < Drainedsoul> should I file a bug or wait 'till Grum or Dinner is around?
03:55 < dx> definitely file a bug
03:55 < dx> unless there's one already
03:56 < Drainedsoul> how would I find a bug about this issue :T
03:56 < dx> search json?
03:56 < Drainedsoul> brilliant !
03:56 < dx> lol
03:59 < dx> there was a bug about a related issue that got "fixed" for 1.6.2, so i suspect they don't have proper unit tests for the rendering of this (which makes sense, making unit tests for rendering isn't trivial)
04:00 < Drainedsoul> yeah the colour issue?
04:00 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2064 2 files : Renamed AddWorldPopup tab "Generator" to "Generate", for consistency.
04:01 < dx> "the" issue? :D
04:02 < Drainedsoul_3> Someone else and I talked about that but they made the bug report 
04:03 < dx> Drainedsoul_3: yeah, iBotPeaches reported this one that was marked as fixed
04:04 < Drainedsoul_3> Yeah the example was mine. I'm loath to file a bug report just because I hate revealing my real name in otherwise anonymous contexts...call me old fashioned 
04:11 < dx> Drainedsoul_3: errr i don't think that's needed
04:11 < Drainedsoul_3> Atlassian says it's mandatory to sign up 
04:11 < dx> they won't review it to verify that it's a real name
04:12 < dx> i think i just wrote "dx dx"
04:13 < Drainedsoul> oh sweet thanks
04:13 < dx> yep http://dump.dequis.org/J-f_Y.png
04:13 < dx> i'm just "dx"
04:13 < Drainedsoul> cool
04:14 < dx> the only websites i've seen that *really* care about real names are google+ and some domain registry services (but just some of them)
04:14 < Drainedsoul> I think *.ca is strict about it, which is awful because they actually make that publicly available >: \
04:15 < dx> do they?
04:16 < Drainedsoul> yes
04:17 < Drainedsoul> I was sued over some stuff on my web server, and I'm pretty sure that's where they got my real name/address from
04:17 < dx> just whois'd the .ca domains that two of my friends registered, there's no contact information available. did the same for the domain you're connecting from, same result
04:17 < Drainedsoul> weird it used to be in whois >: |
04:17 < Drainedsoul> and they send out notices every year saying get your info correct and up to date or else
04:17 < dx> well, every domain registrar asks for contact info
04:18 <+clonejo> Could someone confirm me? http://beta.wiki.vg/User:Clonejo
04:18 < dx> they might or might not show it, and most CCTLDs allow using 'whoisguard'-like services
04:18 < Drainedsoul> I know I used to be able to get at it through whois, maybe they changed that policy
04:18 < dx> clonejo: done
04:18 <+clonejo> thx
04:22 <+clonejo> Now I have to redo my last edit :P
04:29 <+ammar2> TkTech: confirm please http://beta.wiki.vg/User:Ammaraskar
04:30 < TkTech> ammar2: You don't have to ping me, any other confirmed user can confirm others.
04:30 < TkTech> ammar2: (but done)
04:30 < dx> ah damn, i was doing that too
04:33 < TkTech> Off to sleep, very tired.
04:33 < TkTech> On the list for tomorrow, assuming no other issues arise:
04:33 < TkTech> 1. Update wiki.vg to point to the new server.
04:34 < TkTech> 2. Change the db prefix on beta.wiki.vg to continue using it as a playground.
04:34 < dx> also, http://www.wiki.vg/Special:Log daaaaamn
04:34 < TkTech> 3. Add a notice to mc.kev009.com that we no longer use that wiki and Protect the common pages.
04:35 < TkTech> 4. Clean up, update, and copy over mcdevs.org content to a namespace on wiki.vg
04:35 < TkTech> 5. Redirect mcdevs.org to wiki.vg
04:35 < TkTech> 6. Update channel topic to point to new rules.
04:36 <+md_5> why cant we just host mcdevs.org on the new box
04:36 < TkTech> It already is. I moved it without anyone even noticing.
04:36 < TkTech> Using one wiki just makes it less to maintain.
04:37 < TkTech> dx: Yeah, getting a bit sick of it. At least now I can cull spam signups and the confirmation system should nuke spam edits entirely.
04:37 < TkTech> I will *not* miss undoing and banning all of those.
04:40 < dx> i like the current mcdevs.org but it's probably only for aesthetic reasons
04:42 < dx> i mean, having it as part of the wiki is a good idea, it's just that i'd miss the minimalistic non-wiki style it has
04:44 <+md_5> I disagree with it being moved, basically on the grounds of what dx said
04:47 < dx> md_5: i didn't disagree since it could be solved (and get the advantages of the wiki). i believe mediawiki allows setting per-namespace CSS, would that be fine?
04:49 <+md_5> I dont see any compelling argument to remote it
04:49 <+md_5> remove
04:50 < dx> md_5: well... it still says "Note: With the death of cia.vc, we are seeking a viable replacement. Please offer your suggestion in the channel"
04:51 < dx> md_5: the git repo includes an updated version but tktech didn't update the actual site, for some reason. it's better if we don't have to rely on that and use the wiki instead if changes are needed.
04:53 < dx> of course it could be solved with some git hooks to re-render the static site with whatever tool it uses, but that overlaps with the wiki.
07:14 < Drainedsoul> can anyone recommend a good Unix for dev?
07:14 < dexter0> OS X
07:15 < Drainedsoul> yeah it crashed when I tried to d/l XCode onto it (running in VMWare Workstation 9)
07:18 < Grum> hackintosh is hacky
07:18 < AlphaBlend> hi grum
07:23 < Grum> hi
07:23 <+md_5> Ubuntu
07:24 < Drainedsoul> Unix, not Linux
07:25 <+ammar2> Drainedsoul: out of curiousity, why not a unix-like?
07:25 < Drainedsoul> kqueue vs. epoll
07:30 < AlphaBlend> Grum: So what kind of changes required for the plugin API would you guys like to accomplish for 1.7?
07:32 < Grum> we'll at least be tackling the ui system, as there is none :p
07:33 < Grum> we got some left-over work to do from the resourcepacks
07:33 < AlphaBlend> o.o
07:34 < AlphaBlend> i'd imagine
07:34 < AlphaBlend> the vanilla resource pack exchange feature isn't working yet
07:34 < AlphaBlend> server -> client thing, i mean
07:43 < dx> Drainedsoul: you should have asked for a BSD then, because that's pretty much all the non-linux unix that exists. and linux is an implementation of unix, you seem to imply that it's something else
07:45 < dx> (i guess "implementation of posix" would be more correct)
07:46 < Drainedsoul> yeah that's the difference I was getting at.  I'm specifically after a Unix.  Any recommendations on which BSD to use?
07:50 < dx> err... posix is just a standarization of unix
07:50 < dx> but whatever.
07:51 < dx> i've never saw any reason to use a BSD but the options are always either freebsd/openbsd
07:51 < dx> (or mac OS X lol)
07:53 < dx> iirc freebsd has the biggest community and openbsd likes to pretend they don't have security issues ever
07:59 < rom1504> nobody use it so nobody has issue :)
08:41 < frostyfrog> Drainedsoul: How about BSD?
08:42 < frostyfrog> er... nvm. already suggested. :S
08:46 < dx> frostyfrog: lol, just "BSD" doesn't mean anything
08:51 < ffmdr> md_5: hi
08:55 < ffmdr> md_5: any idea why remapping mod from 1.6.1 to mcp and from mcp to 1.6.2 with SpecialSource doesn't really work? Is it even a good idea?
09:17 <+md_5> ffmdr probably because you are doing it wrong
09:17 <+md_5> (read up)
09:17 < ffmdr> lol
09:17 < ffmdr> what could go wrong
09:18 < ffmdr> first remap to 161.srg so jar is deobfed, and then remap to -r 162.srg
09:18 < ffmdr> (I actually used all conf directories not only .srg)
09:20 < ffmdr> md_5: ?
09:36 < ffmdr> so...
09:37 < dx> ffmdr: you're doing it wrong
09:37 < Calinou> dll...
09:38 < dx> Calinou: you're doing it even more wrong
09:38 < ffmdr> dx: mhm
09:39 < Calinou> dylib...
10:13 < AlphaModder> anyone got an idea of what kind of DataInput packet 0x3F is?
10:35 < Thinkofdeath> http://beta.wiki.vg/User:Thinkofdeath Could I be confirmed please?
10:36 <+pdelvo> me too please: http://beta.wiki.vg/User:Pdelvo
10:37 < jast> Drainedsoul: today's BSDs are not officially Unixes either, they're Unix-likes
10:38 < dx> Thinkofdeath pdelvo: done
10:39 < jast> in fact, I think none of the open-source operating systems are a real Unix
10:39 <+pdelvo> ty
10:39 < Thinkofdeath> dx: Thanks
10:54 < SinZ> while we are confirming people, http://beta.wiki.vg/User:SinZ
10:55 < dx> done
11:17 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2065 3 files : Minor GUI adjustments in AddWorldPopup, based on feedback (thanks Aster and Hearty0)
11:26 < shoghicp> dx: http://beta.wiki.vg/User:Shoghicp
11:26 < shoghicp> I should change my userpage
11:28 < dx> done
11:28 < shoghicp> thanks
11:28 < SinZ> was about to do it <3
11:28 < dx> heh
11:59 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2066 4 files : More AddWorldPopup changes based on user feedback. Most notably, many actions that previously required an extra button press (switching tabs, selecting a world, changing generators, selecting parameter) now automatically causes map preview to refresh.
13:51 <+sadimusi> TkTech: we should move this stuff too http://beta.wiki.vg/Main_Page#Other_Locally_Hosted_Resources
13:51 <+sadimusi> and update the link to the hostmaster
14:15 < dx> why is there a libevent2 doxygen hosted there ._.
14:16 < dx> and how did i never notice that. i think i saw all the other list items and ignored that one
14:30 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to fucksignals [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/Q_ulWA
14:30 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde 9be7bff - lolshit
14:32 < dx> dav1d: how poetic
14:32 < dav1d> dx: I just rebased that one away
14:32 < dav1d> oh
14:32 < dav1d> forgot to change the name
14:33 < dav1d> *reword the commit message
14:33 < dx> :D
14:33 < dav1d> dx: latenight coding what do you expect with fucking bugs which fuck up every pointer in the fucking world
14:33 < dx> dav1d: well fuck you got me there
14:33 < dav1d> dx: segfault in foreach <3
14:33 < dav1d> -.-
14:34 < dav1d> because single-linked list
14:34 < dav1d> but with fucked up pointers
14:34 < dx> fun!
14:34 < dav1d> so head was set to something
14:34 < dav1d> => !empty
14:34 < dav1d> true
14:34 < dav1d> but accessing headt._value
14:34 < dav1d> yes, you guessed right
14:34 < dav1d> figuring that out ok? bug in Single Linked list?
14:34 < dav1d> nope, looks fine
14:35 < dav1d> well I could continue that story
14:35 < dav1d> or I reword that commit
14:35 < dav1d> ^^
14:36 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/v-0RpQ
14:36 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde 9dbac0d - connect to config keys, fire on change
14:36 < dav1d> lol
14:37 < dav1d> I shouldn't have done that
14:37 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/dxhAtg
14:37 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde 82e3fa2 - connect to config keys, fire on change
14:38 < dx> that url has my name in it :3
14:38 < dav1d> :D
14:39 < dx> (and it didn't ping me, i just happened to read it. yay regexps)
14:39 < dav1d> blabdx
14:39 < dx> yep. no ping.
14:39 < dav1d> I think it wouldn't ping me either
14:44 <+pdelvo> datdav1d
14:44 < dav1d> pdelvo: id did
14:44 < dav1d> id ftw
14:44 < dav1d> *it
14:44 <+pdelvo> :D
14:46 < dav1d> awesome
14:46 < dav1d> pushed broken stuff, again
14:49 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/F2BkwQ
14:49 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde 50979f7 - fix config
15:00 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/e4z5SQ
15:00 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde d4ef6e1 - Updated readme
--- Log closed mer. juil. 10 15:24:55 2013
--- Log opened mer. juil. 10 15:25:02 2013
15:25 -!- Irssi: #mcdevs: Total of 121 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 10 voices, 110 normal]
15:26 -!- Irssi: Join to #mcdevs was synced in 70 secs
17:12 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2067 2 files : Last few adjustments on AddWorldPopup GUI.
17:13 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2068 2 files : Minor optimizations in /Restore and /Ellipsoid commands, to reduce temporary allocations.
17:16 < TkTech> sadimusi: You're right of course, forgot about it.
17:17 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 12 commits to master [+0/-0/±22] http://git.io/2P9uWQ
17:17 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 3e8b7f4 - Added PlaySound
17:17 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 0095449 - Fix stair and slab placement
17:17 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 345392e - Fix comment
17:17 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath b54a183 - Torch placement
17:17 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 0023298 - Pumpkin placement
17:17 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 6508ccb - More placement fixes
17:17 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 4f4737a - Movement changes
17:17 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 4e12269 - Fix inventory crash
17:17 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 5f4376f - Removed Get prefix from inventory methods
17:17 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 99d4b58 - Fix slot data reading
17:17 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 600eff9 - Block place event changes
17:17 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath d502cf7 - Add HightlightedSlot
17:18 < TkTech> Alright guys, can anyone think of a painless way to move the domains?
17:18 < TkTech> Mediawiki only works with one hostname so beta.wiki.vg will stop working while wiki.vg transitions 
17:18 < dexter0> send a 30(something) to redirect beta.wiki.vg?
17:19 < TkTech> Redirect beta.wiki.vg back to wiki.vg?
17:20 < TkTech> wiki.vg will be in limbo for a few minutes to a few hours while the DNS updates.
17:20 < TkTech> (Usually seconds these days but there are sorry souls with very bad ISP DNS)
17:22 < dexter0> sure, but they will see the kev0009 hosted wiki until their DNS gets with the program, not a huge issue.
17:22 < TkTech> Good point, just worried about changes being lost.
17:23 < TkTech> I'll do one last import after the DNS updates so we're all sync'd up.
17:24 < TkTech> Ah, good job me. I forgot I changed the TTL on wiki.vg to 1 minute a few days ago.
17:24 < Thinkofdeath> Couldn't you just protect the pages on the old site now and put up a notice about the move?
17:24 < TkTech> Yup, that's the idea.
17:24 < Thinkofdeath> ah ok then
17:39 < TkTech> ammar2: Only you would apply in…is that comic sans?
17:39 <+ammar2> yes
17:39 <+ammar2> professional application (tm)
17:41 < TkTech> Okay, alert up, main pages are protected, DNS is propagating.
17:45 < TkTech> Should already have moved for most people.
17:47 < Thinkofdeath> Looks like its moved for me
17:51  * clonejo purges his browser cache...
17:52 <+sadimusi> do we really want the www?
17:53 < buttscicles> how will i know not to use my ftp client
17:56 < TkTech> sadimusi: It's usually recommended to utilize a subdomain of some type (because of limitations at the top level, like CNAMEs.
17:56 <+sadimusi> this is the first time I hear of such limitations
17:57 < TkTech> Within 4 minutes, two spam accounts sign up. lol.
17:57 <+sadimusi> and I never experienced any troubles with any of my second level domains
17:57 <+sadimusi> lol
17:58 < Guest683> ew www
17:59 <+sadimusi> and even if there are limitations to cname, do you even need cname?
17:59 < TkTech> sadimusi: https://devcenter.heroku.com/articles/apex-domains
17:59 < TkTech> (Keep in mind we have more than one sever)
18:00 <+clonejo> I would like to use the recent changes atom feed. But it's contains spam bot creations :-/
18:00 < TkTech> clonejo: One moment
18:01 <+clonejo> You can't easily fix that, can you?
18:01 < TkTech> clonejo: Assuming you want it for a script, https://github.com/TkTech/WikiBot/blob/master/wikibot.py
18:01 < TkTech> Easy enough to filter out.
18:01 < TkTech> No, can't really, without requiring an admin to create every account on request.
18:01 < TkTech> The confirmation system was the best I could get and even that required a bit of work to do.
18:01 < TkTech> A cron will cull them every 3 days.
18:02 <+clonejo> I wanted to but it into my feed reader, but this should do, too: http://www.wiki.vg/index.php?namespace=0&title=Special%3ARecentChanges
18:02 < TkTech> clonejo: !! I didn't realize you could do that!
18:02 <+sadimusi> TkTech: from your linked document: "There are two approaches available to serve traffic from the root domain while preserving the ability of your provider to manage your apps’ IP addresses"
18:03 <+clonejo> or even better: http://www.wiki.vg/index.php?namespace=2&invert=1&title=Special%3ARecentChanges
18:03 < TkTech> sadimusi: Er, keep reading.
18:04 < TkTech> sadimusi: Because method 1 isn't supported by most DNS hosts, and method 2 is what we're using.
18:05 <+clonejo> This is just perfect: http://www.wiki.vg/index.php?title=Special:RecentChanges&feed=atom&namespace=2&invert=1
18:05 <+sadimusi> TkTech: then we should get a dns host that supports it...
18:05 <+sadimusi> TkTech: don't you have an A record anyway?
18:05 <+clonejo> (contains every change except user creations/modifications)
18:05 <+sadimusi> at least that's what dig tells me
18:06 < TkTech> sadimusi: I do, an A record to the same host which then 301's to www.
18:06 < TkTech> sadimusi: Which is method 2...
18:06 <+sadimusi> TkTech: I meant on www
18:06 < TkTech> Yes, currently.
18:06 <+sadimusi> TkTech: sorry I'm so anal about this, www is really unacceptable for me
18:06 < TkTech> The idea is not to impose a limitation that could affect us later on.
18:07 < TkTech> Why? wiki.vg works fine, all URLs just redirect.
18:07 <+sadimusi> I have no idea why, I just hate ugly URLs
18:07 <+sadimusi> that includes media wiki with the /wiki/ prefix
18:07 <+sadimusi> *wikis
18:07 < Guest683> it looked so pretty as wiki.vg
18:08 < Guest683> now its ugly :o
18:08 < buttscicles> it could be worse. I can't stand forums that use /index.php?id=1224 for threads and such
18:09 <+sadimusi> maybe you could have convinced me if you were currently using a CNAME entry, but now I really don't see a reason to force www
18:09 <+sadimusi> you could do the exact same thing when the need arises
18:13 < TkTech> It's been changed, you might have to refresh once for your browser to clear the 301.
18:13 <+sadimusi> <3
18:13 < TkTech> Like I've said before, majority usually rules, but I'm giving you root and you're fixing it later :)
18:13 < iBotPeaches> kudos :)
18:13 <+sadimusi> I keep getting "too many redirects"
18:14 < iBotPeaches> force refresh
18:14 < TkTech> Your browser has cached the wiki.vg -> www.wiki.vg redirect.
18:14 <+sadimusi> the fifth time flushing the cache did the trick
18:14 < TkTech> When www.wiki.vg redirects to wiki.vg it hits the cached redirect and around you go.
18:19  * sadimusi votes for moving /Main_Page to /
18:20 < iBotPeaches> yer
18:20 < iBotPeaches> smallest url possible on homepage
18:21 < iBotPeaches> that gives you 10 google points
18:22 <+sadimusi> I don't know why they use colons for namespaces, but I guess we shouldn't change that
18:32 <+clonejo> I didn't know we actually have such a page: http://wiki.vg/Wishlist
18:34 < Thinkofdeath> clonejo: The 0xFE can be removed now :)
18:34 <+clonejo> Thinkofdeath: because of DNS records?
18:35 <+pdelvo> Because it is hopeless?
18:35 < barneygale> clonejo: I made that ages ago hoping people might use it
18:35 < Thinkofdeath> It was added
18:35 < barneygale> but meh
18:35 <+pdelvo> no we want it client -> server
18:35 < Thinkofdeath> pdelvo: Yep its there
18:36 <+clonejo> barneygale: We should link it somewhere, the page is an orphan right now.
18:36 < winny> In the query protocol, the "basic stat" method returns the server's port as a short. It should instead be encoded as a null-terminated string <- perhaps UT3 query requires it to be a little endian short
18:36 < Thinkofdeath> http://wiki.vg/Server_List_Ping
18:36 < barneygale> winny: I looked into that, but couldn't find any evidence that was the case
18:36 < winny> o
18:36 < barneygale> looks like a mistake to me
18:36 < winny> ok, yeah, i thought that weird too
18:37 < winny> any php devs here and want to critique my MC server list ping and query code? Fresh off my keyboard. https://github.com/winny-/mcstat/blob/master/mcstat.php
18:37 < shoghicp> winny: let's see
18:37 <+pdelvo> youre right :p Do we have christmas already? :o :o
18:38 <+pdelvo> thats the best thing in the whole world :o
18:39 < shoghicp> winny: do a class ;)
18:39 < winny> yeah i was thinking about it
18:39 < shoghicp> ping()
18:39 < shoghicp> query()
18:39 < shoghicp> and the long query
18:39 < dav1d> yay ChanServ is back
18:40 < winny> there is a lot of state i could be hording
18:40 < shoghicp> winny: try pointing that to a PocketMine-MP server ;)
18:41 < dav1d> pdelvo: what christmas?
18:41 < dav1d> pdelvo: what's our present?
18:41 < winny> do you know of any lists or hosts that run PocketMine-MP shoghicp?
18:41 <+pdelvo> a Plugin Message packet after 0xFE with a protocol version and host in it <3
18:41 < shoghicp> winny: a4.dallas.us.lbsg.net 19132-19135
18:42 < TkTech> clonejo: Could probably remove that page, repetitive with the MC ticket tracker
18:42 < shoghicp> let me send you a list
18:42 < shoghicp> try Query
18:42 < shoghicp> those are Minecraft: PE servers, so the ping from minecraft PC won't work
18:42 < winny> hey it worked nicely, the query
18:43 < shoghicp> winny: http://pastie.org/private/qi0lgzkia7wnsrmxj2hcfa
18:43 < shoghicp> :D
18:43 <+pdelvo> now I can make my proxy to work with multiple versions even in the server browser! and give it vhosts without dns records
18:44 < winny> sweet thx shoghicp, where can I read more about the differences between PC minecraft and those servers' protocol?
18:44 < shoghicp> PC is TCP
18:44 < shoghicp> Pocket is UDP
18:45 < winny> udp exclusive?
18:45 < shoghicp> yes
18:45 < winny> a part of me, being from a idtech gamer background appreciates this
18:45 < shoghicp> http://wiki.vg/Pocket_Minecraft_Protocol and https://gist.github.com/shoghicp/5717436
18:46 < shoghicp> winny: https://github.com/Intyre/MinecraftPE-Dissector
18:47 < dav1d> shoghicp: now do that for 1.6.2
18:47 < dav1d> oh
18:47 < dav1d> that wasn't you
18:47 < shoghicp> ???
18:47 < dav1d> wireshark
18:47 < winny> shoghicp: hey did you see the wireshark pcap file I linked in this channel yesterday night, i was curious if anybody knew why my mc client was making so many useless outbound packets for a server list ping https://bytesadism.org/~winston/upload/minecraft.pcapng.gz <-- the communication on ipv4 is minecraft, ipv6 is my php script
18:47 < dav1d> for 1.6.2
18:47 < shoghicp> dav1d: that is for Minecraft PE ;)
18:48 < dav1d> shoghicp: I know
18:48 < dav1d> shoghicp: you should make a plugin for 1.6.2
18:48 < dav1d> :P
18:48 < shoghicp> I've an alpha plugin for that ;)
18:48 < shoghicp> but it only allows joining and chatting
18:49 < shoghicp> winny: TCP things?
18:49 < winny> lots
18:49 < shoghicp> do you close the socket after requesting the info?
18:50 < winny> yeah
18:50 < winny> fclose()
18:50 < shoghicp> try using pure socket functions
18:50 < shoghicp> instead of streams
18:50 <+pdelvo> inventiry type 11 is a horse inventory?
18:50 <+pdelvo> inventory*
18:51 < winny> no i mean, them minecraft client is making a lot of useless back and fourth communication for server list ping that doesn't match up with just doing the method for 1.6.1, while my php script and the other example scripts are very minimalistic in the number of packets they send back and forth
18:51 < shoghicp> oh
18:51 < shoghicp> notchcode?
18:51 < winny> i'm not familiar with that word
18:52 < shoghicp> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=notchcode
18:52 < dav1d> for (int i=0; i < 1; ++i) :>
18:53 < winny> good term
18:53 < winny> here, i'll export the packets to a text file so you can view them readily in your browser
18:53 < shoghicp> :D
18:53 < Yoshi2> a for loop like that is actually used in minecraft?
18:55 < winny> it could be who knows
18:55 < winny> lol
18:55 < Yoshi2> it wouldn't suprise me too much
18:56 <+pdelvo> I think the java compiler would be smart enough to optimize that so we will never know
19:00 < winny> should I put the entire packet disscetion in this text file?
19:00 < winny> or just the summary lines?
19:00 < shoghicp> put the entire packet
19:01 < winny> summary + packet bytes?
19:02 < shoghicp> yes
19:04 < shoghicp> winny: also, you may want to check PocketMine-MP source code ;)
19:04 < winny> https://bytesadism.org/~winston/upload/minecraft%20client%201.txt https://bytesadism.org/~winston/upload/minecraft%20client%202.txt https://bytesadism.org/~winston/upload/minecraft%20php%20script.txt
19:05 < winny> lol.
19:05 < winny> 119 packets vs 12 packets
19:06 < winny> client & server both 1.6.2
19:07 < shoghicp> Minecraft is crazy
19:07 < winny> ikr
19:08 < Yoshi2> we all knew that, but sometimes it tries to top even the stuff we already know
19:08 < winny> i'm not very good at picking apart protos, but i'm thinking it's trying legacy methods at about the same time
19:24 < TkTech> sadimusi: I've molested the front page a bit, hidden the title, and add a site-wide notice for anonymous users.
19:24 < TkTech> *added
19:25 <+pdelvo> Maybe you should add a link to the freenode web client for people who are not using irc
19:27 < winny> having spam issues?
19:31 < TkTech> Hasn't even been switched for… an hour? 
19:32 < TkTech> …and there's already something like 20 spam signups.
19:33 < winny> ridiculous
19:55 < FigurePrints> What is the equivalent to the lastlogin file in 1.6.x? (thx)
19:58 < Thinkofdeath> FigurePrints: launcher_profiles.json
19:59 < FigurePrints> thx thinkofdeath
20:14 < TkTech> Cube world worth buying?
20:15  * sfan5 suggest googling
20:16  * TkTech is asking the channel that has expressed interest in it, has purchased it, and likely knows that I'm interested in RE'ing it.
20:16 < TkTech> But thank you for your suggestion.
20:22 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±4] http://git.io/Tqnbhg
20:22 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde e0e54a3 - use the awesome new config-signals
20:24 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/j_FMxg
20:24 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde 54e46a0 - cleanup, add a few safety checks
20:25 < dav1d> man! how do I love this code: https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/brala/entities/player.d#L43-L76
20:25 < dav1d> <3
20:26 <+sadimusi> FigurePrints: if you use the token in there make sure to update it
20:26 < dav1d> connect a variable to the config, once the value changes in the config, the variable is automatically updated
20:26 < dav1d> no wrapper seen when you use the variable though, it looks like a normal type to the user
20:26 < dav1d> I love it
20:26 < dav1d> one of the reason I use D :)
20:27 <+sadimusi> I meant update the value in the config, otherwise the client complains the next time the user starts it
20:28 < Prf_Jakob> dav1d: not exactly sure what it does
20:29 < dav1d> Prf_Jakob: connects the variables MOVE_* STRAFE_* and SENSITIVITY to the config keys: game.key.movement.* etc., now if I update the value in the config, the variables are automatically updated
20:29 < Prf_Jakob> k
20:29 < dav1d> Prf_Jakob: so if the user wants a higher sensitivity, chooses the configure option in a menu, changes the value and magically SENSITIVITY adopts that value
20:30 < Prf_Jakob> I have something similar but values are stored in a local place and then have signals that just fire on changes
20:30 < dav1d> without calling player.update_keys_from_config(config) whatever
20:30 < dav1d> Prf_Jakob: yeah, but the config is also updated via a config file and the commandline :)
20:31 < dav1d> and later on with a scripting api
20:31 < dav1d> this makes things really easy (I hope :P)
20:31 < Prf_Jakob> https://github.com/Charged/Miners/blob/master/src/miners/options.d#L388
20:31 < Prf_Jakob> dav1d: ^
20:32 < dav1d> Prf_Jakob: yeah mine looks pretty similiar
20:32 < dav1d> Prf_Jakob: only that the config manages the updates
20:32 < dav1d> Prf_Jakob: but good idea, opAssign so it works backwards
20:32 < dav1d> SENSITIVITY = 10;
20:32 < dav1d> updates the config
20:32 < Prf_Jakob> all values sit on the config
20:32 < dav1d> but that means I can't connect multiple configs
20:32 < Prf_Jakob> so everything goes via the options
20:33 < dav1d> I probably will never need that, but I like to have it
20:33 < Prf_Jakob> multiple configs?
20:33 < Prf_Jakob> I have multiple users for the values
20:33 < dav1d> https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/brala/utils/config.d#L366
20:33 < dav1d> Prf_Jakob: users?
20:34 < dav1d> Prf_Jakob: I mean one ConfigBound-Value couldn't be connected to multiple configs, except I store all configs it is connected to
20:34 < Prf_Jakob> dav1d: right, but I work around that by only having the value be in one place
20:34 < Prf_Jakob> and then all users go via the Option instance
20:35 < dav1d> well, I have one global config, never intend to have multiple, so that wouldn't be an issue, but the possibility is gone
20:35 < Prf_Jakob> again thats what I do
20:35 < dav1d> yeah
20:35 < dav1d> but I like possibilites :>
20:35 < Prf_Jakob> But you have put all the values where they are used
20:35 < Prf_Jakob> Escentially coping them around
20:37 < dav1d> maybe I make a config array, isn't a big deal
20:37 < Prf_Jakob> I don't think you are getting it
20:38 < dav1d> Prf_Jakob: no I don't understand what you mean
20:38 < dav1d> I think
20:39 < Prf_Jakob> in the player code you write:
20:39 < Prf_Jakob> if (foo == MOVE_FORWARD)
20:39 < Prf_Jakob> I would write
20:39 < Prf_Jakob> if (foo == opts.MOVE_FORWARD)
20:40 < dav1d> na, that's not what I want to have
20:40 < dav1d> point is, I want as less as possible "visible connections" between instances
20:41 < dav1d> if that's nicely hidden magically over the configs-instance which ties everything together that's all I want
20:41 < Prf_Jakob> yet you have a single config
20:41 < dav1d> yes
20:41 < Prf_Jakob> and you bloat your classes
20:41 < dav1d> ?
20:41 < dav1d> why is this bloat?
20:42 < dav1d> if the game class wants to change movement: player.MOVE_FORWARD = 3
20:42 < Prf_Jakob> https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/brala/utils/config.d#L367
20:42 < dav1d> or config.set!char("game.key.movement.forward")
20:42 < Prf_Jakob> https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/brala/utils/config.d#L376
20:42 < Prf_Jakob> all of those bloat the using class.
20:43 < dav1d> Prf_Jakob: I really don't care about that
20:43 < dav1d> there is only one class at a time alive
20:43 < Prf_Jakob> for player maybe
20:43 < Prf_Jakob> but I found that I need config things all over the place
20:43 < Prf_Jakob> just saying
20:43 < dav1d> Prf_Jakob: yes, they can use good old delegates
20:44 < dav1d> Prf_Jakob: config.connect!T(key, { ... })
20:46 <+sadimusi> does anybody already have some working yggdrasil code?
20:47 <+sadimusi> otherwise I'll start updating the documentation on my own
22:08 < SinZ> sadimusi: I kinda have some working yggdrasil code, but it is horribad, and it made dinnerbro cry
22:08 <+sadimusi> :D
22:09 <+sadimusi> do you happen to know the format for the profiles? I keep getting 400
22:10 < SinZ> https://github.com/SinZ163/SinZ-MC-Launcher/blob/master/SinZ%20MC%20Launcher/Login/Yggdrasil.cs
22:11 < TkTech> Where did that name come from?
22:11 <+sadimusi> currently the profiles seem pretty useless and not even the vanilla launcher implements them properly :/
22:11 <+sadimusi> I have no idea who came up with it
22:11 <+sadimusi> but it's in the launcher
22:12 <+sadimusi> I guess for now I'll skip the whole profile stuff
22:13 <+sadimusi> currently I can't even have two profiles for the same user in the vanilla launcher...
22:14 <+sadimusi> afk
22:14 < SinZ> The profile system works in the launcher, except the account is still limited to one for now
22:15 < SinZ> http://pastebin.com/1TcK9MUv Some actual JSON of what your query to Yggdrasil should be
22:17 <+sadimusi> for me that counts as not working ;)
22:17 <+sadimusi> the auth and refresh requests work fine for me, I was just wondering about the optional selectedProfile property
22:18 <+sadimusi> you get it back when you refresh but it looks like you're only allowed to send it when authenticating
22:18 <+sadimusi> anyway, I'm really afk now
22:18 < iBotPeaches> you have to pass wumbo: true
22:19 <+pdelvo> bye chanserv
22:20 < SinZ> Yggdrasil output: http://pastebin.com/BcqW69ji
22:32 < TkTech> Hm, let me take a crack.
22:47 < zuazo> hello people
22:47 < TkTech> Heyo
22:47 < zuazo> how can I contribute to the wiki.vg wiki?
22:48 < TkTech> Just register and then ask for your account to be confirmed here.
22:49 < TkTech> sadimusi: https://gist.github.com/TkTech/5970188
22:49 < TkTech> sadimusi: My start
22:50 < zuazo> ok, my account name is "zuazo", could you confirm it?
22:51 < TkTech> zuazo: All done!
22:51 < zuazo> thanks TkTech!
22:52 < zuazo> you reverted some changes I made to the Protocol page
22:52 <+sadimusi> TkTech: I'm personally more interested in the refresh mechanism, but it looks like the access token is bound to a profile, so there isn't much interesting going on there 
22:53 < SinZ> client token is required for refresh iirc, as client token is bound to the individual launcher
22:53 <+sadimusi> yes
22:53 <+sadimusi> and every accessToken from the same account and client token is invalidated
22:53 < TkTech> zuazo: There were no reversions, but a few edits might have been lost in the transition before the old wiki was locked.
22:55 < TkTech> sadimusi: Getting there
22:55 <+pdelvo> enjoy your daily netsplit
22:55 < zuazo> for example, I updated the 0xFE packet to reflect all the new fields in 1.6.1
22:55 < zuazo> I will try to reapply the changes
22:55 <+pdelvo> they are in a new page i think
22:55 <+pdelvo> http://wiki.vg/Server_List_Ping
22:55 < SpaceManiac> the return
22:55 < TkTech> New launcher is uuuuuggggly.
22:55 < SinZ> TkTech: they haven't really worked on visuals yet
22:56 < zuazo> Yes, pdelvo, but it's a bit confusing
22:56 < SinZ> add a bold red text saying to go to the new page then <3
22:56 <+sadimusi> TkTech: my implementation already works pretty well, I'm just not sure if the client messes with the launcher_profiles.json if it is open while I put the new access token in there
22:56 < SinZ> the client doesn't know if the json exists
22:56 <+pdelvo> Jeah I think i will change the article because it is basicly a 0xFE packet, a plugin message packet with some payload in it which can be read as a packet
22:56 < zuazo> the structure shown in Protocol for 0xfe is no longer correct
22:56 < SinZ> only the launcher accesses it
22:57 < SinZ> sure it is
22:57 <+pdelvo> the packet itself is correct
22:57 <+sadimusi> SinZ: s/client/launcher/
22:57 < dx> TkTech: i was surprised when i saw a screenshot of the new launcher on windows, it actually looks decent. the gui toolkit java uses for linux has a terrible default theme
22:58 < SinZ> it is just a default theme
22:58 < zuazo> pdelvo: 0xfe in 1.6.1 is not 2 bytes length and has more fields
22:58 < zuazo> pdelvo: can I update the 0xfe packet?
22:58 < SinZ> zuazo: yes it is, except the multiplayer menu sends two packets at the same time
22:58 < SinZ> 0xfe and 0xfa
22:59 <+pdelvo> the packet is two bytes. 0xFE, 0x01. after this packet the client also sends a 0xfa packet
22:59 < zuazo> ah, ok, sorry, pdelvo and SinZ, you are right
22:59 <+pdelvo> what you have seen in the code of minecraft is a very ugly way sending two packets in one method body
23:00 < SinZ> we still need to yell at Gru.m for doing an ugly implementation
23:00 < Drainedsoul> I don't think it's intended to be two packets, it's just intended to be able to be parsed that way so that older servers don't crash
23:04 < zuazo> Drainedsoul: surely you're right
23:05 < dx> SinZ: he kinda did it together with us :D
23:05 < SinZ> dx: except his implementation of sending two packets could of been cleaner
23:05 < dx> SinZ: you mean the java side?
23:06 < SinZ> yes
23:06 <+pdelvo> old servers just read the part of the 0xFE and are fine. they dont read whats next
23:07 < dx> pdelvo: old vanilla servers keep reading packets and interpreting them
23:08 < dx> of course pre shcrodinger byte ones probably fail horribly at the 0x01 now
23:09 < dx> since that's a login packet.. with garbage contents
23:09 < Stormx2> protocol version is the first byte after the ident, which led me to believe the server might check that before reading the rest of the packet
23:10 < Stormx2> no idea if it actually does
23:10 < SinZ> it reads it all
23:10 < SinZ> md_5 wanted protocol version, so he now receives protocol version in the ping
23:11 < Stormx2> somewhat usefully, the server doesn't check for equality with the protocol version sent in MC|PingHost, so you can send 127 quite happily
23:11 < Stormx2> It only fails if it's too low
23:12 < TkTech> sadimusi: https://gist.github.com/TkTech/5970188 I think that's all of it.
23:12 < TkTech> sadimusi: Look okay? The SIGNOUT endpoint exists but is unused.
23:13 < SinZ> TkTech: if clienttoken exists, you should be sending it in login
23:13 < SinZ> or else you invalidate all your existing access codes
23:17 < SinZ> and yggdrasil won't complain if you define your own client token
23:18 < SinZ> yay, more netsplits
23:18 <+sadimusi> TkTech: there are also validate and invalidate endpoints, but I guess those are pretty useless
23:18 < zuazo> in the 0x64 packet, the unknwon field is entityId (of EntityHorses)
23:18 <+sadimusi> TkTech: switch_profile is a bit misleading, it's just a login 90% of the time
23:19 < TkTech> sadimusi: Whoops, _logout_request should be using INVALIDATE not AUTHENTICATE
23:24 <+pdelvo> Let me know if thats better: http://wiki.vg/Server_List_Ping#Client_-.3E_Server
23:29 < Drainedsoul> why is the Disconnect Packet content specified in String.Format() .NET notation
23:32 <+pdelvo> why not?
23:32 < Drainedsoul> lacks universality
23:32 < Drainedsoul> I like the notation personally, just saying
23:34 < zuazo> one question about Protocol page, "Total Size" includes PacketID?
23:34 < SinZ> yes
23:37 < zuazo> in packet 0x13 I renamed unknown to jumpBoost
23:38 < zuazo> I also added 0x85 packet, I called it "Tile Editor Open"
--- Day changed jeu. juil. 11 2013
00:00 <+sadimusi> pdelvo: why is the server response explained twice for the server list ping?
00:01 <+pdelvo> Because I just edited to upper part without it in it and I thought it was missing. I remove it :D
00:01 <+pdelvo> or maybe merge it
00:03 <+pdelvo> I removed it
00:14 < Stormx2> uhg
00:14 < Stormx2> pdelvo, 
00:14 < Stormx2> I deliberately didn't write the page like that
00:15 < Stormx2> That page is intended to be read by folks who don't care about the minecraft protocol
00:15 < Stormx2> The previous version was easier to understand.
00:16 <+pdelvo> maybe we should put my version in the protocol page and revert your version?
00:16 < Stormx2> well
00:17 < Stormx2> iirc we already have a page for plugin messages right?
00:17 < Stormx2> http://wiki.vg/Plugin_channel
00:18 < Stormx2> otherwise I don't see the issue with the old version, besides formatting.
00:20 <+pdelvo> I dont liked it because of DRY
00:20 < Stormx2> where did it repeat itself?
00:20 < Stormx2> with the examples?
00:21 < Stormx2> there's some overlap but they're serving different purposes. Plus it's not bad to have an "overview" and a "detailed view" too.
00:23 <+pdelvo> you have basicly a packet description of a plugin packet in it, you describe how strings are encoded. But I see your point. If someone is just interested in getting these information it is easier, but if someone has written code to work with the protocol is easier to have mine version which is based on things which existed before
00:24 < Stormx2> If they know that much, they can figure it out. my version linked to the two packets involved
00:26 < Stormx2> i.e. if they're writing a protocol implementation and ask "how does a server list ping fit into this?" they can decern enough from the page to work it out
00:27 < Stormx2> it's hardly the most difficult problem you'll come across if you're doing a protocol implementation heh
01:40 < dav1d> clonejo: closing issue #1 soon, I think :>
01:40 < dav1d> #9 will be resolved, too I think
01:52 < Drainedsoul> I don't really think that mentioning the fact that there's a plugin packet embedded in the ping packet is useful.  It's an ugly backwards compat hack
02:07 < clonejo> dav1d: \o/
02:12 < dx> Drainedsoul: so explaining stuff is bad now?
02:14 < Drainedsoul> no I mean that framing it in that way is just unnecessarily confusing.
02:14 < dx> meh
02:15 < Drainedsoul> it's not a 0xFE packet followed by a 0xFA packet, it's a 0xFE packet whose internal structure happens to contain a 0xFA packet for backwards compatibility
02:15 < dx> this is like when we discussed data types
02:15 < dx> pointless.
02:21 < zuazo> Drainedsoul: so u think it will be better to document it as a big ping packet instead of two?
02:24 < Drainedsoul> Well in the latest version of the protocol that's what it is.  The 0xFA business is a backwards compat hack, and I think should be mentioned as such, rather than presenting it as two different packets that happen to be sent one after the other.
02:30 <+md_5> <Drainedsoul> it's not a 0xFE packet followed by a 0xFA packet, it's a 0xFE packet whose internal structure happens to contain a 0xFA packet for backwards compatibility
02:30 <+md_5> nooo
02:30 <+md_5> its 2 different packets
02:30 <+md_5> how its sent is implementation specific
02:30 <+md_5> bungeecord for example recieves them as 2 packets
02:30 <+md_5> first it reads a {0xFE, 0x00}
02:30 <+md_5> then it reads a {0xFA, "MC|Ping"}
02:30 <+md_5> etc etc
02:30 < zuazo> md_5: but minecraft itself, both client and server, read it as a single packet
02:30 <+md_5> zuazo so what
02:30 <+md_5> we arent about MC itself
02:31 < zuazo> nothing :-P
02:31 <+md_5> many users in this channel have never decompiled MC
02:31 <+md_5> you cannot tell that is the case by cleanroom inspection
02:31 < Drainedsoul> your definition of "packet" is nebulous, and anyone can change it
02:32 < dx> it actually makes more sense to parse them as two packets
02:32 < dx> since when do we do things exactly the same way the original implementation does, instead of more sensible alternatives?
02:33 < dx> we aim for interoperability not code translation
02:33 < Drainedsoul> how does it make more sense to parse them as two packets?  A packet is supposed to carry some atomic, actionable information.  0xFE 0x01 no longer fits that definition.
02:34 <+md_5> it makes sooo much more sense
02:34 <+md_5> especially if you want to optionally use the data in the second packet
02:34 <+md_5> Bungee reads the first packet
02:34 <+md_5> then starts a timer
02:34 <+md_5> and tries to read the next packet
02:34 <+md_5> if the timer is up, it responds without using the Host data in the second packet
02:35 <+md_5> however if it gets the second packet, it uses the virtual host data
02:35 < dx> i'm pretty sure that at this point bungee is the only client that actually requires the extra information from the second packet
02:35 < dx> so it's really optional
02:35 <+md_5> vanilla does NOT use the second packet
02:35 <+md_5> in any way shape or form
02:36 < dx> SRV based virtual hosting doesn't need it either
02:36 <+md_5> I should remove SRV based bhosting from bungee now
02:37 < dx> yeah, it just made deployment more painful, right?
02:37 <+md_5> thats means breaking the config again though
02:37 < Drainedsoul> such parsing is nice, but it sounds pretty tightly-coupled to me
02:37 < dx> can't you leave it as deprecated then?
02:46 < SinZ> deprecating the SRV config in bungee would work
02:48 < zuazo> the problem can be that someone can accidentally implement an 0xfe packet without the embedded 0xfa
02:48 < zuazo> IMHO the docu is less clear
02:48 < SinZ> zuazo: vannila server would just assume they are 1.4-1.5 then
02:48 < SinZ> no biggy
02:50 <+md_5> no
02:50 <+md_5> vanilla server doesnt do anything to the 0xFA
02:50 <+md_5> it would assume nothing
02:50 < SinZ> close enough to pre-1.6
02:55 < zuazo> i have doubts about what would be best
03:40 <+sadimusi> Stormx2: http://wiki.vg/Protocol_Overview looks pretty neat, why isn't it linked anywhere?
03:46 < clonejo> It should be updated and linked on the main page.
03:50 < dav1d> man this was some good music
04:47 < TkTech> What is going on with you tonight Freenode? Did I forget your anniversary?
04:48 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: nickserv has been missing for parts of the day
04:48 <+Prf_Jakob> and now sleep
04:56 < SinZ> and netsplits all over the place
06:04 < dexter0> Would someone who knows how/can please confirm SirCmpwn's wiki account?
06:06 <+md_5> confirmed
06:07 <+SpaceManiac> oh yeah I registered for that, SpaceManiac confirm would be great
06:14 <+md_5> SpaceManiac done
06:30 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] mappum pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/M8eZcA
06:30 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] mappum 00baac9 - Bumped protocol version for 1.6.2
06:33 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] mappum pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±3] http://git.io/0jA15Q
06:33 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] mappum f3657f7 - Bumped protocol version for 1.6.2
06:37 < TkTech> ~_~ http://wiki.vg/File:180px-Ancient.jpg
06:41 < dx> TkTech: you should ban maintenance script
06:42 < dx> huh. that file is not in the old wiki. how did that happen
06:42 < dx> nevermind found it http://mc.kev009.com/File:Ancient.jpg
06:44 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 3 commits to master [+0/-0/±7] http://git.io/NSDyBA
06:44 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 7ec102b - Update packets and server-side support to Minecraft 1.6.2
06:45 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 60c4281 - Client-side 1.6.2 support
06:45 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn e094216 - Update README to reflect 1.6.2 changes
07:09 <+kev009> oh weird, nobody informed me of the switch.  should I 301 mc.kev009.com?
07:16 < dx> lol
07:17 < dx> well uhm
07:17 < dx> good to see you here
07:19 < dx> kev009: apparently TkTech has asked you to redirect it before, but either way it would be nice to have a proper redirection now. just confirm with TkTech - personally i found it useful to access the old server to lookup a few minor details that got lost in the migration.
07:21 < dx> kev009: also, i bet he didn't inform you because he didn't expect you to appear :D
07:21 <+kev009> a netsplit borked my username but I'm still alive and have these crazy things called email addresses :)
07:24 < dx> well i can't really speak for him regarding this
07:42 < icetooth> minecraft 
07:42 < icetooth> hah
07:50 < dx> hah.
07:56 < AlphaBlend> oh bleh
08:57 < TkTech> sadimusi: https://gist.github.com/TkTech/8ece76404c1eb10c92d4
08:57 < TkTech> sadimusi: It's like a honeypot wet dream.
09:00 < mappum> TkTech: what does your honeypot detect? griefers?
09:01 < TkTech> mappum: All those spam signups on the wiki, which seem neverending.
09:01 < mappum> ah, cool
09:01 < dx> what do they even register for?
09:01 < TkTech> On mc.kev009.com everything from SEO spam to viagra.
09:01 < TkTech> They can't post on wiki.vg because no one will confirm them.
09:02 < dx> but do all of them edit pages? i think the few i saw had no changes at all
09:02 < TkTech> My script should keep culling and banning their IPs from signing up again.
09:02 < mappum> i don't think the minecraft development community is the best demographic to market viagra to
09:02 < TkTech> Nope! Some of them do nada.
09:02 < TkTech> It's just absurd how many exploited boxes they have available. 
09:03 < dx> TkTech: seen any patterns in those boxes?
09:03 < TkTech> Haven't taken a close look at 99% of them yet
09:04 <+md_5> add a captcha.....
09:05 < TkTech> CAPTCHA's are 99% useless. Most of them are outright broken, and others just get dished out to a taiwanese kid for a penny per thousand.
09:05 < TkTech> Tried them, stopped maybe 10%.
09:07 <+md_5> require people do verify their MC account before signing up
09:07 <+md_5> I've done that for a lot of sites
09:07 < TkTech> Why? This script will just cull the bad users each night.
09:07 <+md_5> just join special server -> if premium, get kicked with confirmation code which is a hash of their name + shared secret salt
09:07  * dx cough
09:07 < dx> http://dump.dequis.org/oo7w-.jpg
09:07 < TkTech> No extra work from anyone.
09:08 <+md_5> your script is 100% accurate?
09:08 < dx> the captcha is "join #mcdevs and let us confirm that you're human"
09:08 <+md_5> since we have to do manual approval anyways
09:08 < dx> i'm sure that's 100% accurate
09:08 <+md_5> wouldnt manual account creation be a logical step
09:09 < AlphaBlend> TkTech: CAPTCHAs are useful because there's apparently no better alternative
09:10 < dx> i like trivial hardcoded captchas that only someone who targets your site would know how to bypass
09:10 < dx> like the bitlbee wiki captcha which is always the first part of the irc channel topic, "Welcome to the BitlBeeHive"
09:10 < TkTech> md_5: Because manual account creation is a pain in the ass? 
09:11 <+md_5> I dont see how its any different from this, there is only one additional field to enter
09:11 <+md_5> already we have username and need to tick a box
09:11 <+md_5> lets just add password to the mix
09:12 < TkTech> You realize when you're looking at a user page there's a user rights link on the sidebar, right?
09:12 <+md_5> and?
09:13 < TkTech> So you don't have to enter anything? How is this not obvious to you, or are you intentionally looking for something to be snarky about?
09:13 <+md_5> you have to enter their username to get to their user/userrights page
09:14 < TkTech> No, you don't. I just look at the recent changes page for new users, click their name, click the sidebar link, check the box and submit.
09:15 <+md_5> so now we are arguing : click recent changes -> user -> promote, vs, add user, username, password, create
09:15 < TkTech> But anyways, once you write the extension to allow any user to securely create accounts at whim, let me know.
09:15 < dx> i just have this bookmarked http://beta.wiki.vg/Special:UserRights
09:15 <+md_5> ....
09:15  * md_5 stares at wikipedia
09:15  * md_5 stares at account creator rank
09:16 < Drainedsoul> and people get snappy with me about pointless arguments.
09:16 < dx> Drainedsoul: :D
09:16 < TkTech> Seriously, I can't understand why md_5 is being a whiny bitch.
09:17 < TkTech> Not really in the mood for this at 2AM.
09:17 < TkTech> Wait, no it's 3AM. Even better.
09:17 <+md_5> is the old wiki still up?
09:17 <+md_5> I'm missing changes from the pre release + protocl changes
09:17 < TkTech> Yes it is, mc.kev009.com.
09:17 < dx> yeah
09:17 < dx> TkTech: also did you talk with kev009?
09:17 < dx> TkTech: he's alive
09:18 < dx> TkTech: i bet you weren't expecting that
09:18 < TkTech> I wasn't, haven't seen him in days and haven't seem him active in much longer.
09:18 < dx> 02:09 <+kev009> oh weird, nobody informed me of the switch.  should I 301 mc.kev009.com?
09:18 < dx> two hours ago
09:18 <+ammar2> he might've died again
09:19 < AlphaBlend> TkTech: Is that really a shortcut?
09:19 < dx> shortcut?
09:20 < TkTech> kev009: If you could 301 it tomorrow that would be great. One last full SQL dump would be great too.
09:20 < AlphaBlend> i go to the user account special page, enter their name, pulls up their acc, then change rank
09:21 < TkTech> That's when someone asks you. I was pre-emptively checking for old users re-registering.
09:21 < TkTech> (Plus I usually have recent changes open anyways)
09:22 < TkTech> Actually, I'll just make a "/confirm <username>" plugin for Textual.
09:22 <+ammar2> TkTech: well you could offer the auth via mc username as an alternative to manual confirmation
09:23 < dx> ammar2: we would lose users that were registered before, such as pbunny
09:23 < TkTech> ammar2: And you're volunteering to maintain it indefinitely and keep it up to date?
09:23 <+ammar2> yup
09:23 <+ammar2> dx: alternative
09:23 < dx> lol
09:23 <+ammar2> manual confirmation still works alongside it
09:23 < TkTech> ammar2: And to do the same thing for cube worlds and the other games that people are interested in documenting on wiki.vg?
09:23 < dx> well the cube world modders got their own wiki already, at github
09:24  * AlphaBlend snickers at mention of pbunny
09:24 < TkTech> Their documentation is shit, I'm redoing it.
09:24 < dx> TkTech: neat
09:24 < dx> TkTech: but honestly better keep it at their wiki, or formally offer them to use ours
09:24 < TkTech> Come back to that tomorrow. Going to sleep.
09:25 < dx> sure
09:25 < TkTech> I'm not sure what the majority opinion is here.
09:26 < TkTech> To me, the manual process is piss simple and literally anyone can do it.
09:26 < TkTech> Everything else is coming across as pointless whining.
09:27 < dx> the manual process is a bit awkward but other kinds of manual account creations are a different kind of awkwardness
09:27 < dx> so welp
09:27 < dx> IMO, better keep the current system, it's not broken
12:09 <+pdelvo> damn cubeworld. Take my money
12:12 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo pushed 4 commits to master [+0/-0/±5] http://git.io/O63xhA
12:12 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo ae2046d - packet 0xfe (ping): some fields renamed, put the correct protocol version in mc.ping()
12:12 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo 6b09737 - Added packet 0x85 (Tile Editor Open)
12:12 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo c597436 - packet 0x2c: properties updated to support 1.6.2 version (elementList added)
12:12 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo 8e06879 - README: added propertyArray example
12:23 < dav1d> lol
12:23 < dav1d> brala multiclient
12:28 <+pdelvo> would be cool. Im getting information together and startet a protocol description. Looks a bit like minecraft
12:31 < dav1d> protocol backend is not a problem
12:31 < dav1d> the rendering is :>
12:31 <+pdelvo> I know you can do that!
12:32 < dav1d> rendering of terrain should be easier
12:32 < dav1d> actually
12:33 < dav1d> if I find a way to smartly merge vertices
12:33 < dav1d> and greedy increase the size
12:33 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/SdR5HQ
12:33 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo 634ad00 - Release 0.11.2
12:33 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo tagged 634ad00 as 0.11.2 http://git.io/n0tccw
14:23 < superjoe> did my wiki.vg account get deleted?
14:24 < superjoe> Login error. There is no user by the name "superjoe"
14:24 <+sadimusi> we have a new wiki, all accounts were removed
14:24 < superjoe> ah
14:25 < superjoe> so how do I get editing privileges
14:25 <+sadimusi> you just got them
14:26 < superjoe> thanks
14:26 < superjoe> :)\
15:52 < dav1d> omg
15:52 < dav1d> you could render cubeworld pretty easy with particles
15:52 < dav1d> I did something similiar already...
15:52 < dav1d> might play around with that
18:35 <+pdelvo> @TkTech have you started reengineering cubeworld?
20:26 < TkTech> pdelvo: Not yet, slated as a weekend project.
20:26 < TkTech> pdelvo: Interested?
20:27 < dexter0> Is there an RE community for Cube World yet?
20:28 < TkTech> md_5: If I switch it from manual confirmation to context-specific questions on signup ("What is Markus Petersons monicker?") would that suffice? I would need a fairly large list of questions and answers that can be done 5 at a time and refreshed with a new set once that poor taiwanese kid types the answer.
20:28 < TkTech> dexter0: Nothing organized so far as I can see, a few forum posts.
20:29 < TkTech> dexter0: http://cubeworldforum.org/topic/7103-study-serverclient-protocol-for-cube-world/
20:29 < TkTech> ...
20:29 < TkTech> "I think it would be a big step into server modding if we documented and understood the CW server protocol like how kev009 did it for Minecraft."...
20:33 < TkTech> dexter0: That's amazing timing. I link you and a minute later it goes down for maintenance.
20:33 < dexter0> I saw it
20:33 < dexter0> but still, haha
20:34  * dexter0 wishes they had a mac version
20:34 < TkTech> Do you still have it open? What was the IRC channel they listed
20:35 < dexter0> #ModCubeWorld
20:35 < dexter0> no server listed
20:36 < TkTech> dexter0: Esper
20:36 < Yoshi2> ohh, cube world, I think it has been ages since I last heard a thing about it
20:51 <+pdelvo> Jeah I am. I bought it today and started looking at the protocol
20:52 <+pdelvo> Its actually a little-endian minecraft protocol with 32bit packet ids
20:53 <+pdelvo> and of course without length information in each packet. so you have to know every packet
20:54 < Drainedsoul> little endian protocol -_-
20:55 < Drainedsoul> does it at least use unsigned integers for lengths?
20:55 <+pdelvo> there are no lengths :D
20:56 < Drainedsoul> there are no lengths, anywhere in the protocol?  I mean MC doesn't have packet lengths, but it has lengths for arrays, strings, etc.
20:56 <+pdelvo> ask me in a week
20:57 < Yoshi2> that seems like a nice start
20:57 <+pdelvo> this is what I got: https://github.com/pdelvo/CubeworldProtocol
20:57 < Drainedsoul> omfg
20:57 < Drainedsoul> UTF-16
20:57 < Drainedsoul> when they say "chars", what do they mean?
20:58 < Drainedsoul> wow the packet ID is a whole 32-bit integer?  Because we might need 4 billion different packets eventually!
20:58 <+pdelvo> Im not sure about that. I havent found any strings. I searched for other people who done that and they said it was utf 16. 
20:58 <+pdelvo> jeah they are
20:59 < Drainedsoul> well you can't safely implement the protocol unless you know whether the length is in code units or code points >: /
20:59 < Drainedsoul> I wish people would stop saying "char" or "character"
20:59 <+pdelvo> Skip the data types section. it is work in progress :D
21:00 < Drainedsoul> client version is int32
21:00 < Drainedsoul> because what about Cube World version -4?
21:00 <+pdelvo> prealpha builds
21:01 <+pdelvo> and jeah it is a int32 and not a uint32
21:01 < Drainedsoul> what is this game written in?
21:01 < Drainedsoul> is it Java?
21:02 <+pdelvo> its native
21:02 < Drainedsoul> what
21:02 < Drainedsoul> they actually CHOSE UTF-16
21:02 < Drainedsoul> wowowowow
21:02 <+pdelvo> c++ or something like that
21:02 < Drainedsoul> that's like saying oh I could buy a fast car, or a nice car
21:02 < Drainedsoul> but I'll buy a shitty slow car
21:03 <+pdelvo> I would not blame them until we actually find a place were they use utf-16
21:03 < Drainedsoul> wat
21:03 < Drainedsoul> UTF-16 is still horrible because it's space inefficient
21:04 < Drainedsoul> there's literally no reason to choose UTF-16 over UTF-8 or -32 that I can think of
21:04 < Drainedsoul> other than "well I have to support WinAPI"
21:04 < Drainedsoul> but WinAPI isn't even really UTF-16, because it's UTF-16 LE, which is nonstandard since UTF-16 is defined explicitly to be BE
21:05 <+pdelvo> and the client version is int32, because the server reports a negative value if you send a negative value as the client version :D Client version: -16777213
21:05 < Drainedsoul> lol
21:06 < Drainedsoul> I'll give them that that's nowhere near as bad as using signed integers for lengths
21:07 <+pdelvo> I dont think you should blame someone for things you dont understand. It could make you look like an idiot. wait until we know most parts of the protocol to be sure
--- Log closed jeu. juil. 11 21:21:43 2013
--- Log opened jeu. juil. 11 21:21:51 2013
21:21 -!- Irssi: #mcdevs: Total of 123 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 10 voices, 112 normal]
21:22 <+pdelvo> http://wiki.vg/Special:RecentChanges
21:22 <+pdelvo> ...
21:22 -!- Irssi: Join to #mcdevs was synced in 73 secs
21:23 < dexter0> dat account spam
21:24 < Flemmard> ([a-zA-Z]{11})(\d{3}) ?
21:25 < Flemmard> all those have 11 letters / 3 numbers, no way to lock those kind of pattern ?
21:29 < iBotPeaches> is HoneyPot enabled or something?
21:30 < TkTech> I'm letting them go for a few days, basically inoculating the wiki.
21:31 < TkTech> Flemmard: https://gist.github.com/TkTech/e144311a175095141521
21:32 < TkTech> All the IPs will be banned from signups.
21:36 < Yoshi2> that is a nice number of spam accounts
21:36 < TkTech> It's been going on for months and months. Can't think of when they didn't hit the wiki...
21:44 < TkTech> Re-organizing the homepage
21:44 < TkTech> Anyone have a large icon we could use for Minecraft and one for Cube World?
21:45 < iBotPeaches> i like the blue boxes you put around each game
21:45 < Yoshi2> how large should it be?
21:46 < TkTech> Fairly large, I'm thinking of turning the homepage into two columns with the icon and a small blurb below each.
21:46 < TkTech> The minecraft one would lead to the current homepage.
21:49 < TkTech> (Someone have a better idea?)
21:54 < iBotPeaches> TkTech: I think Minecraft should still be the sole focus, until cube world becomes popular
21:54 < iBotPeaches> maybe a sidebar link
21:55 < iBotPeaches> but an entire 50/50 split for the game doesn't seem right to me
22:06 < TkTech> iBotPeaches: A sidebar link would never get noticed.
22:06 < TkTech> A 70%/30% column split would be fine.
22:06 < iBotPeaches> yer side panel, not sidebar. my bad
22:08 < TkTech> Yeah, that's what I'm thinking as well.
22:09 < TkTech> dexter0: Not horribly impressed with the cube worlds channel.
22:09 < dexter0> I expect that kind of constant off topic chatter while the folks who really know what they are doing work things out.
22:10 < TkTech> Good point, this channel isn't exactly 100% on topic either.
22:10 <+pdelvo> Doyou mean #cubeworld on freenode?
22:11 < Drainedsoul> the wave of condescension washed over me as though SirCmpwn had returned.
22:11 < dexter0> pdelvo: #ModCubeWorld on esper
22:52 < superjoe> aw come one
22:52 < superjoe> SirCmpwn was never that bad
22:52 < superjoe> have you guys ever experienced piman over in #gamedev?
22:53 < superjoe> s/one/on/
23:31 < iBotPeaches> SirCmpwn doesn't know when to stop. Its his way or the highway
23:59 < itsme1> hi, how do i get edit permission for http://wiki.vg/ ?
--- Day changed ven. juil. 12 2013
00:00 < clonejo> itsme1: wait a sec…
00:01 < clonejo> itsme1: I confirmed your account
00:01 < itsme1> ok, thanks
04:38 <+kev009> last backups:
04:38 <+kev009> http://mc.kev009.com/wiki-latest.xml.bz2
04:38 <+kev009> http://mc.kev009.com/wiki-latest-images.tar.bz2
04:38 <+kev009> 301 installed to www.wiki.vg
04:39 <+kev009> So long, and thanks for all the fish!
05:42 < dx> kev009: i think TkTech wanted a sql dump because the xml dumps might be missing some info
05:42 < dx> but the most important stuff is in those xml anyway
13:51 < daegon> Hi I am facing some trouble during update of python proxy client to latest version
13:51 < daegon> http://pastebin.com/dmd7W3L2
13:55 <+sadimusi> which part isn't working?
13:55 < Yoshi2> daegon: where are you facing trouble?
13:56 < dav1d> lol
13:56 < dav1d> for a second I thought I am in python.de -_-
13:57 < daegon> I think at packet x02 since I updated all the other packets, made xfa after xfe
13:57 < dav1d> the awkward momen you realize you're german but count in english
13:57 <+sadimusi> :)
13:58 <+sadimusi> daegon: maybe just run your traffic through a second proxy and check the both packet logs
13:58 <+sadimusi> -the
13:58 < daegon> the accounts are connecting but giving message outdated client, even though all packets are updated
13:59 < dav1d> daegon: did you update the protocol id?
13:59 < dav1d> quick ctrl+f doesn't show me your protocol id
13:59 < dav1d> http://wiki.vg/Protocol#Protocol_Version 
14:00 < daegon> ah..
14:00 <+sadimusi> the 0xfa packet doesn't look right to me
14:00 < dav1d> sent with the handshake
14:00 < dav1d> http://wiki.vg/Protocol#Handshake_.280x02.29
14:01 < dav1d> phewe line 257..
14:01 < daegon> i changed xfa since now there is 2 inventory types and it comes after xfe
14:01 <+sadimusi> it looks to me like you're reading the length twice
14:01 < daegon> this is working for 1.5.2 even though I dint mention protocol id
14:02 < dav1d> 'Chat message {}'.format(', '.join('[{}]'.format(msg) for _ in range(100))
14:02 < dav1d> daegon: ^
14:02 < dav1d> daegon: line 257
14:02 <+sadimusi> in 1.5.2 0xfa isn't used for the server list ping
14:02 < Yoshi2> if I could suggest something, please replace some of the characters in the code with their hexadecimal representation
14:02 < dav1d> and 259
14:02 < dav1d> 266
14:03 < Yoshi2> specifically, in the parts where your proxy checks the ID of a packet
14:03 <+sadimusi> dav1d: ("[%s]" % msg) * 100
14:03 < dav1d> sadimusi: not the same
14:03 < dav1d> sadimusi: also {}.format <3
14:03 < dav1d> I used to hate it, but it is amazing
14:04 <+sadimusi> I'm still mostly using %
14:04 <+sadimusi> mostly because it's shorter
14:04 < dav1d> 'Chat message {}'.format(', '.join(['[{}]'.format(msg)] * 100))
14:04 < dav1d> ^
14:04 < dav1d> also works
14:04 < dav1d> but generators!
14:04 < dav1d> sadimusi: format is amazing :>
14:04 < dav1d> '{self.bar}'.format(self=self)
14:04 < Yoshi2> I don't quite understand generators as a word, but I like format very much
14:04 < dav1d> :D
14:05 < daegon> hmm done.. sadly thats not the reason though
14:05 < dav1d> well the generator doesn't allocate 100 list elements
14:05 < dav1d> one at a time
14:05 < dav1d> it's lazy
14:05 < daegon> i think I am making a mistake with the packets
14:05 <+sadimusi> I do use format in burger extensively
14:05 < dav1d> yield, e.g. "makes" a generator
14:05 < dav1d> sadimusi: '...'.format(self=self, **otherargs)
14:06 < dav1d> <3
14:06 < dav1d> pretty formatstrings
14:06 < dav1d> %(...)s
14:06 < dav1d> instead of ^
14:06 < dav1d> {..}
14:06 < dav1d> well you probably know that :P
14:08 < Yoshi2> I used to do stuff like this before I discovered format:
14:08 < Yoshi2> print "The bear has found "+str(amount)+" sticks and built a house in "+str(time)+" hours."
14:08 < daegon> @david any other advice?
14:08 <+sadimusi> format is pretty cool, I just don't use most of it's features 90% of the time
14:08 <+sadimusi> so % does the trick
14:08 <+sadimusi> it is however extremely powerful for variable formats
14:09 <+sadimusi> e.g. https://github.com/mcdevs/Burger/blob/master/burger/toppings/packetinstructions.py#L97
14:09 < dav1d> daegon: well yeah, I would do the dispatching of these packets probably with metaclasses :>
14:09 < dav1d> daegon: in general, I would make a class for each packet
14:09 <+sadimusi> dav1d: noooooooo
14:09 < dav1d> sadimusi: no?
14:09 < daegon> really?
14:09 <+sadimusi> no, I would never do that
14:09 <+sadimusi> instead have something generate them
14:09 < dav1d> yes, makes stuff a lot easier
14:10 <+sadimusi> especially in python
14:10 < dav1d> except you want a proxy
14:10 < Yoshi2> how would you generate the packets?
14:10 <+sadimusi> in java I'd probably use an enum or something
14:10 < dav1d> then you can pass most of that stuff right through
14:10 < dav1d> sadimusi: I didn't say he has to hardcode them
14:10 <+sadimusi> https://github.com/sadimusi/mc4p/blob/master/mc4p/messages.py#L37
14:10 < dav1d> things like NamedTuple exist, I'd do it similiar
14:10 < dav1d> with some __new__ magic
14:11 <+sadimusi> If i wrote mc3p I probably would have done it a little different, but it's a good start
14:11 < dav1d> class Handshake(Packet): id = 0x02; string username; string host; int port;
14:11 < dav1d> then let __new__ of Packet generate methods and fields
14:12 < dav1d> oh
14:12 < dav1d> lol
14:12 < dav1d> I mixed in D
14:12 <+sadimusi> no types for you :P
14:12 < dav1d> but you get the idea
14:12 <+sadimusi> yeah
14:12 < dav1d> similiar like sqlalchemy does it
14:12 <+sadimusi> that would be pretty but lack the backwards compatibility I need in mc4p
14:12 < dav1d> right
14:12 < dav1d> which I don't care about :>
14:13 <+sadimusi> but as long as you don't create packet classes with explicit read() and write() methods you're doing it right
14:14 < dav1d> class Handshake(Packet): id = 0x02; _fields = { 'version' : Byte, 'username' : String, 'host' : String, 'port' : Int }
14:14 < dav1d> ^
14:14 < dav1d> could look like that
14:14 <+sadimusi> class Handshake(Packet): id = 0x02; version = Byte; username = String; host = String; port = Int;
14:14 <+sadimusi> would be prettier imo
14:14 < dav1d> sadimusi: no
14:15 <+sadimusi> more like sqlalchemy
14:15 < dav1d> sadimusi: @property for the properties
14:15 < dav1d> generated in __new__
14:15 < dav1d> mh
14:15 < SinZ> Yoshi2: ylt had a protocol generator eons ago, which showed great progress, if it was ever used
14:15 < dav1d> well makes no difference
14:16 < dav1d> yeah sqlalchemy does more magic
14:16 < dav1d> _fields would be easier
14:16 <+sadimusi> yes
14:17 < SinZ> https://github.com/ylt/Resonate/blob/master/src/Resonate/Packets.py generated by https://github.com/ylt/Resonate/blob/master/src/Resonate/dev/Generate_Packets.py
14:17 < SinZ> most likely wont work anymore, due to major wiki refactoring
14:17 <+sadimusi> won't work anyway, because of ugly packets
14:18 < daegon> is there something wrong in these lines? http://pastebin.com/Ckx52BFg
14:18 < SinZ> sadimusi: anything too messy, you just invent a datatype that handles it better
14:18 <+sadimusi> dav1d: I'd put in even more magic like display_name = Conditional(String, lambda msg: msg.mode in (0, 2))
14:19 < dav1d> sadimusi: step two :>
14:19 < Yoshi2> I don't think such a generator would be very useful to me, because I need to write functions to deal with the data anyway
14:19 <+sadimusi> daegon: o.O
14:19 <+sadimusi> daegon: use struct
14:20 <+sadimusi> no wait, what are you even using the port for?
14:20 < dav1d> this looks really wrong?
14:20 < Yoshi2> daegon: yes, please use python's struct module
14:20 < dav1d> or construct!
14:20 <+sadimusi> the port should be an int, not a hex string
14:21 < dav1d> https://pypi.python.org/pypi/construct
14:21 < dav1d> never used it, but always wanted to
14:21 <+sadimusi> you could build the whole protocol with this thing :D
14:22 < SinZ> it would save time just writing the wiki in your own format, just do a converter OF the wiki
14:22 < dav1d> you're sure?
14:22 < dav1d> if not I think you can get pretty far
14:23 < dav1d> anyways need to buy stuff
14:23 < dav1d> :>
14:24 < Yoshi2> construct looks very nice, but it seems to be slightly complicated
14:24 < SinZ> I bet some small maitnence to ylt's script would get the job done
14:24 < SinZ> and add code to handle the annoying types, like slot
14:25 < Yoshi2> now, if construct had some sort of tl;dr, that would be great
14:51 < dav1d> bioshok for 25€...
14:51 < dav1d> *bioshock
15:41 < clonejo> TkTech: Notifico seems down
15:41 < clonejo> (the bots)
15:42 < SinZ> Not-003 is in esper still
15:48 < TkTech> It's very rare for all the bots to go down, it's usually a network-specific connection issue.
15:54 < TkTech> clonejo: They've been given a kick in the butt, should show up on your next message.
15:59 < clonejo> ok, thanks
16:38 < TkTech> And a ban for you, and a ban for you, and one for you too!
16:39 <+pdelvo> thats funny isnt it? :D
16:41 < TkTech> There's lots of IPs only doing 1 or 2 accounts, then there are a few doing 30+.
17:09 < Thinkofdeath> TkTech: Any chance of getting the wiki bot back now we have switched servers? Maybe using MediaWiki hooks instead
17:09 < TkTech> It should already be up, don't think anyone has made a change in the last few hours
17:09 < Thinkofdeath> Ah cool
17:20 < Thinkofdeath> TkTech: Made an edit and the bot is a no show
17:41 < TkTech> Thinkofdeath: I think I found a bug
17:42 < TkTech> Thinkofdeath: Running again, see if this works.
17:44 < iBotPeaches> did we have to register new accounts? why does it say mine doesn't exist anymore
17:45 < iBotPeaches> I re-registered, no worries
17:49 < Thinkofdeath> iBotPeaches: Comfirmed your account
17:49 < Thinkofdeath> TkTech: May another edit
17:49 < Thinkofdeath> *Made
17:51 < iBotPeaches> thanks
18:16 < TkTech> Thinkofdeath: Yeah, this script sucks. Going to redo  as a WikiMedia extension.
18:17 < Thinkofdeath> TkTech: Ok then :)
20:34 < TkTech> kev009_: I thought you were going to do a redirect...
20:34 < TkTech> kev009_: People are asking me if the wiki is dead -_-
20:38 <+kev009_> TkTech: zuh?
20:38 <+kev009_> http://mc.kev009.com/derp wfm
20:38 < TkTech> kev009_: mc.kev009.com is a file listing
20:42 <+kev009_> fixed i guess
20:42 <+kev009_> no more nbt
20:50 < TkTech> kev009_: Thanks
--- Day changed sam. juil. 13 2013
03:28 < Vislo> Hello
12:15 < Not-002> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/MIE0bg
12:15 < Not-002> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo 5c8f29b - Release 0.11.3
12:15 < Not-002> [node-minecraft-protocol] zuazo tagged 5c8f29b as 0.11.3 http://git.io/AKFzdw
13:12 < dav1d> this new launcher sucks
13:13 < dav1d> currently having a shitty internet, I can't play because the button to play is greyed out
13:13 < dav1d> this is just stuipid
13:14 < dx> dav1d: please stop pirating
13:14 < dav1d> I can't even click the play button if I logout
13:14 < dav1d> -.-
13:15 < dav1d> so how do I start minecraft if I can't click that button...
13:15 < dav1d> bypassing the launcher..
13:15 <+pdelvo> maybe a parental system :D
13:15 < dx> dav1d: and that's piracy.
13:16 < dav1d> dx: dafuq?
13:16 < dx> dav1d: not having a good internet connection is illegal now, get with the times
13:16 < dav1d> omfg
13:16 < dav1d> do I really have to disconnect myself from the internet so I can launch it in offline mode
13:17 < dav1d> 64 bytes from dav1d.de (78.46.162.82): icmp_seq=554 ttl=55 time=1233 ms
13:17 < dav1d> dx: ^
13:17 < dav1d> cool
13:17 < dav1d> -.-
13:17 < dav1d> SinZ: didnt you have a custom launcher?
13:17 < SinZ> yup
13:17 < nyuszika7h> the launcher isn't obfuscated
13:17 < dav1d> how can I start minecraft without the launcher?
13:17 < nyuszika7h> anyone can easily decompile and modify it
13:17 < nyuszika7h> dav1d: not so easy with the new folder scheme I think
13:17 < dav1d> because this launcher is just stuipid
13:17 < nyuszika7h> so I don't know
13:18 < SinZ> its actually easier than before, kinda
13:18 < nyuszika7h> it is?
13:18 < dav1d> I can't even click that fucking button
13:18 < SinZ> you can have the icon without voodoo
13:18 < nyuszika7h> dav1d: what error in dev console?
13:18 < BizarreCake> Erm... can I get my account confirmed so I could edit pages at the wiki? 
13:18 < BizarreCake> Or more specifically, the server list page :I
13:19 < dav1d> brb disconnecting myself from the internetz...
13:19 < SinZ> I need to rewrite that part of my launcher though, as they changed stuff
13:19 < dx> BizarreCake: done
13:19 < BizarreCake> :D! Thanks
13:21 < dav1d> this is so stuipid
13:21 < dav1d> so retarded
13:21 < dav1d> netcfg down ...; minecraft16
13:21 < dav1d> works
13:21 < dav1d> play offline
13:21 < dav1d> -.-
13:43 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 3 commits to master [+0/-0/±8] http://git.io/OhddBQ
13:43 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 637f6f4 - fix config.set overriding old signals, improve ConfigBound
13:43 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 29149a3 - improve camera, implement up/down movement
13:43 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde e62476c - disable snooping in offline mode
14:11 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/Cl9-yg
14:11 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 7c7085b - implemented a new camera, fixed #1
14:11 < dav1d> wow
14:12 < dav1d> github closes issues automatically
14:12 < dav1d> neat
14:12 < dav1d> clonejo: :D
17:51 < clonejo> dav1d: nice feature
17:58 < clonejo> dav1d: Sadly I can't test it right now.
18:02 < dav1d> :(
18:34 < dav1d> someone knows how the rotation in the PositionLook packet works?
18:35 < dav1d> I dont really understand it
18:36 < dav1d> just angles in degrees?
18:36 <+pdelvo> 256 -> 2*pi or 360°
18:37 <+clonejo> dav1d: http://wiki.vg/Protocol#Player_Look_.280x0C.29
18:37 < dav1d> seen that
18:37 < dav1d> pdelvo: 256?
18:37 <+pdelvo> oh sorry. They changed that
18:37 < dav1d> clonejo: but it doesn't really explain it
18:37 <+pdelvo> Or im just stupid
18:37 < dav1d> my old code was obviously broken
18:39 <+pdelvo> Ah. In the entity packets they use a byte
18:39 < dav1d> especially what is which axis...
18:39 < dav1d> opengl coordinate system?
18:40 < dav1d> because if it is, then the wiki is wrong
18:54 < dav1d> can someone help me test this?
18:54 < dav1d> clonejo, pdelvo?
19:02 < dav1d> awesome
19:03 < dav1d> so I only have to add 180°
19:03 < dav1d> ..
19:06 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±4] http://git.io/B3AFBg
19:06 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde f1f36d7 - small optimization, don't recalculate perspective on every move
19:06 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 7997d36 - send correct player rotation, fixed #9
19:23 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 5 commits to master [+0/-0/±10] http://git.io/MvrWzA
19:23 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath b6acf50 - Switch Y and Stance back
19:23 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 4508456 - Crash fixes
19:23 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 0a979fd - Log placement
19:23 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 80a0bbc - Changed the internals of worlds
19:23 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 9920df2 - Fixed the return type of World.Block
20:12 < ffmdr> md_5: hi, I got a problem with SpecialSource, I point --srg-in at mcp/conf  - in result jar classes and methods are renamed but field/method calls are not which results in "Player.q" etc - what I missed?
20:18 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to queuetest [+0/-0/±3] http://git.io/JlHLww
20:18 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 0a3f27d - minor tweaks -> dmd 2.063
20:18 < dav1d> dafuq?
20:21 < ffmdr> dafuq
20:37 < ffmdr> md_5: so I wanted to remap "just" a mod jar, it looks like it needs rest of minecraft in jar to remap (the mod) properly - a classpath option would be cool
20:51 < ffmdr> procyon decompiler really kicks ass - love it so much <3
21:38 < ffmdr> does anyone have patched fernflower? can't find it anywhere
21:41 < ffmdr> talking about http://www.mcportcentral.co.za/index.php?topic=3272.0 ("fernflower fix")
21:47 < ffmdr> it looks like stackoverflow answer was deleted but here is the mirror http://www.pressingquestion.com/1788232/Fernflower-Java-Decompiler-Help
22:05 < ffmdr> just decompiled fernflower with fernflower to fix decompile errors
22:25 < mbaxter> so meta
22:58 < dav1d> lol
22:58 < dav1d> minecraft, dafuq?
22:58 < dav1d> player rotation angles are really really strange
23:01 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 2 commits to master [+1/-0/±5] http://git.io/59vOfw
23:01 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde b3e47d1 - improve queue, mess around with a new queue implementation
23:01 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde e5a4f65 - improve camera, minecraft angles -> brala angles
--- Day changed dim. juil. 14 2013
04:26 < SinZ> ugh, Esper is commiting suicide atm
04:27 < SpaceManiac> Oh, I was worried it was me
04:27 < SpaceManiac> "/dev/sda1 will be checked for errors at next reboot" yaaaay linux
04:39 < iBotPeaches> is there any url to download the "latest" server at all times? 
04:39 < iBotPeaches> since the s3 bucket is just versioned
04:39 < iBotPeaches> http://www.minecraft.net/download/minecraft_server.jar doesn't appear to be updated anymore
04:39 < iBotPeaches> Or maybe a /latest linked to whatever the current version is
04:43 < SinZ> iBotPeaches: http://s3.amazonaws.com/Minecraft.Download/versions/versions.json will give you the latest at the bottom, and then download that version
04:43 < iBotPeaches> SinZ: ahhh kudos :)
09:05 < DavidEGrayson> Heya, I just updated my client to support 1.6.2 and I wanted to update its entry on http://wiki.vg/Clients .   I used to be able to log in as user DavidEGrayson to the Wiki but now the Wiki is claiming that there is no such user.  Do I have to ask someone here to confirm my account or something?
09:06 < SpaceManiac> There's been a reset of some variety, re-register and then ask for confirmation here
09:08 < DavidEGrayson> OK, I re-registered as DavidEGrayson and now would like permission to edit pages, please.
09:10 <+ammar2> DavidEGrayson: confirmed, the page you're looking for is http://wiki.vg/Client_List btw
09:10 < DavidEGrayson> oh yeah, I got that wrong.  Thanks ammar2 !
12:13 <+md_5> ffmdr there is a classpath option
12:13 <+md_5> just start java with -cp <classpath>
12:13 <+md_5> and use the --live flag
13:46 < PlayerW_OName> hello
13:50 < SpaceManiac> Whoo
13:51 < SpaceManiac> Updating McURL to work with the new launcher and got a smooth Windows install process down
13:53 < PlayerW_OName> does anyone know why mojang messed up sessions that much?
13:57 < Calinou> >windows
13:58 < PlayerW_OName> can someone tell me how do i obtain client-token? i have no idea :(
13:58 < Calinou> wit hahx
13:58 < Calinou> with hax
14:06 < PlayerW_OName> ehm... any better ideas? xD
14:43 < dav1d> yay I figured the rotation out
14:43 < dav1d> PlayerW_OName: from the launcher_profiles?
14:45 < dav1d> yeah look at these damn diamonds! http://i.imgur.com/haZ59S8.jpg
14:45 < dav1d> :>
14:58 < Not-003> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±3] http://git.io/16Fyug
14:58 < Not-003> [BraLa] Dav1dde 1afa75f - increase max angle for x rotation
14:58 < Not-003> [BraLa] Dav1dde 44c59c3 - completly fix minecraft rotations
15:29 < PlayerW_OName> dav1d my problem is that i'm making launcher and trying to send that damn json, do you mean that i need to check does launcher have client token, if not try to make profile?
15:29 < dav1d> PlayerW_OName: oh, you mean the new api
15:29 < dav1d> haven't messed with that yet
15:29 < dav1d> still using the old
15:29 < PlayerW_OName> yup
15:31 < PlayerW_OName> the old one was easy in java, connect, read from stream to string and use string.split
15:32 < PlayerW_OName> grr... why did they changed that anyway? it was still able to make profiles in old api -,-
15:33 < dav1d> oh dear, I wonder how I can set the cookie
15:34 < PlayerW_OName> in java?
15:34 < dav1d> no
15:34 < dav1d> I don't touch java, except it's for university
15:35 < PlayerW_OName> so what are you using?
15:36 < dav1d> D
15:36 < dav1d> and that's the problem, I don't wanna use curl, so I am using a rather hack for HTTP, now I need a way to hack in cookies
15:36 < rom1504> set-cookie:...\r\n
15:37 < dav1d> rom1504: in a relativly sane way
15:37 < PlayerW_OName> first i was trying to write launcher in c++, but java has much more standard libraries
15:38 < rom1504> dav1d: so you are using some lib then ?
15:38 < dav1d> rom1504: kinda :>
15:39 < dav1d> rom1504: https://github.com/adamdruppe/misc-stuff-including-D-programming-language-web-stuff/blob/master/http.d
15:39 < dav1d> if you call this a lib
15:39 < dav1d> nvm
15:40 < dav1d> I just saw it, he added string headers[] I think
15:40 < dav1d> well then it's easy
17:31 < Ampzilla> hello
17:37 < PlayerW_OName> hi
17:39 < Ampzilla> working on a minecraft launcher and I'm a bit confused on the download paths I would need to use in order to download all of the game files, any hints to add to what the wiki says?
18:25 < PlayerW_OName> you need minecraft.jar in proper version, lwjgl.jar, jinput.jar, lwjgl_util.jar and natives unpacked from windows_natives.jar
18:30 < PlayerW_OName> about download paths, they are diffrent for >1.6 version 
18:50 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/Z0IvVQ
18:50 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath f730f67 - Removed unused debugging code
18:50 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath e3cbbe4 - Fixed some deadlocking issues
20:14 < dav1d> clonejo: btw you have steam?
20:14 < dav1d> pdelvo: ^
20:14 <+pdelvo> yo
20:15 < dav1d> pdelvo: steam name? :>
20:15  * pdelvo <-
20:15 < dav1d> :D
20:15 <+pdelvo> :D
20:15 <+pdelvo> like almost everywhere
20:15 < dav1d> pdelvo: don't have l4d2 by any chance?
20:15 <+pdelvo> no sorry :(
20:15 < dav1d> y u so slow steam -_-
20:16 <+pdelvo> because its summer sale :D
20:16 < dav1d> pdelvo: 4.99€
20:16 < dav1d> :>
20:16 < dav1d> bought it
20:16 < dav1d> too many clonejos on steam
20:18 < dav1d> 68games not bad :>
20:18 <+pdelvo> :D
20:18 <+pdelvo> whats your name?
20:19 < dav1d> pdelvo: ColdSunshine atm
20:23 <+clonejo> dav1d: I should be clonejo on Steam
20:23 < dav1d> clonejo: can you add me?
20:23 <+clonejo> not now
20:23 < dav1d> hehe k
20:24 <+clonejo> I'm on a train and my notebook doesn't run steam
20:26 <+clonejo> yay, Ruhr area -> UMTS everywhere
--- Day changed lun. juil. 15 2013
00:49 < PlayerW_OName> so anyone know how to obtain clientToken?
00:51 < Dinnerbone> Make one
00:51 < Dinnerbone> It can be anything
00:52 <+sadimusi> Dinnerbone: wouldn't it make more sense to hash something specific to the hardware the client is running on?
00:52 <+sadimusi> It would make it much harder to permanently steal an access token
00:53 < Dinnerbone> How would you propose I do this?
00:53 < Dinnerbone> You can't permanently steal an access token
00:53 < Dinnerbone> You can only "steal" it once
00:53 < Dinnerbone> Once a token is used it's invalid
00:53 <+sadimusi> you just refresh it
00:53 < Dinnerbone> Which gives you a new one
00:53 <+sadimusi> yes
00:54 <+sadimusi> but you don't tell it to the original client
00:54 < Dinnerbone> The old one is now invalid. If the victim logs back in they invalidate yours because you're using the same clientToken
00:54 <+sadimusi> that's exactly why I'm proposing it
00:54 <+sadimusi> I can easily wipe the client token of the victim
00:54 <+sadimusi> and a completely random one gets generated
00:55 < Dinnerbone> The users are also going to have a list of every valid access token + where/when they're used, and a button to invalidate it
00:55 < Dinnerbone> However
00:56 < Dinnerbone> How would you propose I make a client token that: won't change per environment, isn't going to conflict with another one in the world, is possible to get from java, and the attacker can't get himself?
00:56 <+sadimusi> the last point doesn't matter
00:56 < Dinnerbone> Okay
00:56 < Dinnerbone> The other 3 points do
00:56 <+sadimusi> yes
00:57 <+sadimusi> how do you define enviroment?
00:57 <+sadimusi> the serial number of the cpu or hd might be a good start
00:57 < Dinnerbone> If I change computer specs, it can be invalidated. If I move a laptop house to house, it shouldn't be
00:57 < Dinnerbone> Okay
00:57 < Dinnerbone> Do you know how to get that from java? Because I don't. All I know is a network mac address which is incredibly unreliable
00:58 <+sadimusi> why is it unreliable? because it changes too often?
00:59 < Dinnerbone> It changes, you may not have one, you may have multiple, we may not actually have access to it
01:00 <+pdelvo> mac addresses can be changed easily (if the hardware supports it)
01:00 <+sadimusi> sure, but that's your fault then
01:00 < Dinnerbone> It's also very terrible for uniqueness
01:00 <+sadimusi> according to stackoverflow it's almost impossible to get the serial nr of the hard drive
01:00 < Dinnerbone> sadimusi, not really since one of your points for going this route is that attackers shouldn't be able to change it
01:01 <+sadimusi> ok, it'll probably require root privileges though
01:01 < Dinnerbone> Indeed, as will us retrieving the token from some systems (linux, notably. Mac maybe)
01:01 < Dinnerbone> Not a price I'm willing to pay
01:02 <+sadimusi> yeah, would have been nice but the costs just don't outweigh the benefits
01:04 < PlayerW_OName> what about hashing username (on computer, not minecraft)? is it possible?
01:04 <+sadimusi> that doesn't make any sense
01:04 <+sadimusi> the idea is that you still can have multiple clients for the same account
01:04 < Dinnerbone> Can't get it easily from java, changable, not easily unique, very likely to have conflicts on the same person on multiple computers
01:05 < Dinnerbone> ie at home I'm Dinnerbone and at work I'm Dinnerbone so if clientToken==hash("Dinnerbone") I'm not gonna be able to log in on both
01:05 <+md_5>    so
01:05 <+md_5> make it a business model
01:05 <+md_5> license per computer, not per user!
01:05  * Dinnerbone slaps md_5
01:06 < Dinnerbone> Also I just realized the wiki article on yggdrasil doesn't cover refresh :(
01:06 <+sadimusi> did somebody finally write one?
01:06 < Dinnerbone> I hope that doesn't cause custom implementations to skip it
01:06  * sadimusi was too lazy
01:08 < PlayerW_OName> wait, client token in returned JSON is exactly same as in sended JSON?
01:08 < dx> >There were no results matching the query. Create the page "Yggdrasil" on this wiki
01:08 <+sadimusi> dx: http://wiki.vg/Session
01:08 <+sadimusi> it's pretty horrible
01:08 < dx> sadimusi: i suspected so
01:09 < Dinnerbone> PlayerW_OName, yes. It's something your client generates.
01:09 < Dinnerbone> If you don't send one, one will be generated on Yggdrasil and sent back for you to keep
01:09 < Dinnerbone> So you don't *have* to generate your own for the first use
01:09 < Dinnerbone> But you should
01:10 < PlayerW_OName> ohh, that's what i was looking for, i'll save that in java properties :)
01:13 < PlayerW_OName> is that right:
01:13 < PlayerW_OName> String jsonDecoded = "{\"agent\":{\"name\":\"Minecraft\",\"version\":1},\"username\":\"" + username + "\",\"password\":\"" 				+ password + "\",\"clientToken\":\"" + index.config.getProperty("clientToken") + "\"}"
01:14 < PlayerW_OName> many backslashes :P
01:15 < dav1d> where does Yggdrasil come from?
01:15 < dav1d> Java has no escape-string literals thingy
01:15 < dx> dav1d: norse mythology? or what are you asking exactly
01:15 < dav1d> like python ' or """
01:16 < dav1d> or D ``
01:16 < dav1d> `"I am a string"`
01:16 < SinZ> PlayerW_OName: Kinda, if you don't have a client token yet, you dont need to send it (but remember to save what you get sent back)
01:16 < dav1d> '"I am a string"'
01:16 < dav1d> """"I am a string""""
01:16 < dx> ``I am a superior string''
01:16 <+pdelvo> @"Jeah \o/"
01:17 < dav1d> java really sucks :>
01:17 < dx> hmm it doesn't have heredocs either
01:17 < SpaceManiac> dav1d: python ' and " are the same, you might be thinking r""?
01:17 < dav1d> PlayerW_OName: why don't you use a json library?
01:17 < dav1d> SpaceManiac: nope
01:17 < SinZ> @"this "is" a decent string"
01:17 < dav1d> SpaceManiac: but I expressed it with the wrong words
01:17 < dx> SpaceManiac: that's the point, having them as the same thing to you don't have to add backslashes to "
01:17 < SpaceManiac> ah right
01:17 < PlayerW_OName> look, it's json decoded, no encoded
01:17 < dav1d> dx: r"" is something else again
01:17 < dx> dav1d: yes
01:17 < dav1d> which is also pretty useful
01:17 < PlayerW_OName> i'll use google gson
01:18 < SinZ> PlayerW_OName: might work out for you, thats what mojang uses
01:18 <+md_5> <dav1d> java really sucks :>
01:18 < dx> dav1d: you still need to add backslashes to "
01:18 < dav1d> especially for regexes (well the python re module is smart enough to detect these escape-mistakes)
01:18 <+md_5> could write a java compiler to accept that
01:18 < dav1d> md_5: that obviously was a joke
01:18 < dx> write a compiler? ohgodwhat
01:19 < dav1d> saying a language sucks because it has no fancy, additional string literals thingy is just stuipid
01:19 < dav1d> dx: I guess to jvm bytecode?
01:19 < dav1d> then decompile it
01:19 < dav1d> recompile with javac
01:19 < dav1d> :>
01:19 < dx> !pbunny generate theme=java
01:19 < dx> ^ fund it
01:19 < dav1d> pls no
01:20 < dx> :D
01:20 < PlayerW_OName> so ill need to do if(index.config.getProperty("clientToken") == "") index.config.setProperty("clientToken", tokenFromMojang)
01:20 < dx> bots aren't allowed here anyway
02:05 < PlayerW_OName> i don't understand it,anyone know how would the string look for gson.toJson(String)?
02:06 <+md_5>  "string"
02:06 < PlayerW_OName> yep
02:06 < PlayerW_OName> forgot ""
02:08 < Ampzilla> I'm really confused about this whole "Updating 1.6" section. Am I supposed to first get the json file(s) and then use them to determine where the actual game files are on the server?
02:09 < PlayerW_OName> not sure, but probably yes
02:11 < dx> Ampzilla: writing a launcher?
02:11 < dx> also lol forgetting quotes. off to a good start huh
02:12 < Ampzilla> yeah dx
02:12 < dav1d> anyone knows the bounding box of a player?
02:12 < dx> dav1d: i think it's in the curse minecraft wiki
02:13 < dx> sec, finding it
02:13 < Ampzilla> I've got the authentication for login all figured out with the authserver, but I don't understand how you are supposed to get all of the game resources to create a new minecraft folder
02:13 < dav1d> dx: thanks!
02:13 < dav1d> dx: http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Entity
02:13 < dav1d> didn't look there..
02:14 < dx> dav1d: oh awesome, i was looking in players
02:14 < dx> *player
02:14 < PlayerW_OName> Ampzilla: if you figured out logging, how do you encode json?
02:15 < Ampzilla> for sending the json I'm just using a string that's formatted like a json file
02:15 < PlayerW_OName> lul
02:15 < PlayerW_OName> so why am i messing with gson xD
02:15 < Ampzilla> the authserver's response I'm deserializing into a class and then getting the client token and session token
02:15 < dx> dav1d: so wait wait wait, does this mean brala is going to stop being a noclip-only viewer?
02:15 < dav1d> omg
02:15 < dav1d> dx: yes
02:15 < dx> dav1d: whoa.
02:16 < Ampzilla> what language are you using?
02:16 < dav1d> dx: there is brala.physics.physics, brala.physics.survival and brala.physics.creative
02:16 < dav1d> dx: :>
02:16 < PlayerW_OName> java
02:16 < Ampzilla> c#
02:16 < dav1d> now I need a smart way of finding valid points for a player :>
02:17 < dav1d> shouldn't be that hard, but I want a beautiful design
02:17 < PlayerW_OName> hmm, im forward to learn c# that summer
02:18 < Ampzilla> I really like .net =D
02:20 < PlayerW_OName> first i vas using c++, but it had low amount of methods in standard libs (like java's string.split(regex))
02:20 < PlayerW_OName> was*
02:21 < Ampzilla> okay tell me if this makes sense: first get the versions.json file to determine all of the currently available mc versions, then depending on which version you want use the "id" from the versions.json file to determine the url of the version you want (ex. versions/1.6.2) and then get the json file from that new url, in this case 1.6.2.json. Once you have the 1.6.2 json file you can MAYBE figure 
02:21 < Ampzilla> out the files available within that directory?
02:25 < dav1d> there are more files than 1.6.2.jar?
02:25 < Ampzilla> tons more
02:25 < dav1d> current profile and session: https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/brala/minecraft/profiles.d
02:26 < dav1d> finding all minecraft jars: https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/brala/minecraft/folder.d
02:26 < Ampzilla> I need to download everything, basically a fresh copy of the .minecraft directory. So all the libraries and game assests
02:26 < dav1d> woot, I marked the last function @property
02:26 < dav1d> Ampzilla: my minecraft 1.6 launcheer doesn't do that?
02:27 < dav1d> nope it doesn't
02:28 < Ampzilla> my launcher is inspired by multimc, so it can have multiple fresh instances of the game in their own directories
02:28 < Ampzilla> when a user creates a new minecrat instance, it's supposed to create a fresh directory in a specified location and act like the official launcher does if you delete everything in .minecraft
02:29 < dav1d> some genious in here uses git to switch between versions :>
02:31 < dx> heh using git for a launcher
02:31 < dx> not sure how big that dep would be
02:32 <+pdelvo> can you merge in a mod? :D
02:33 < Ampzilla> my launcher will eventually be able to do that...it's a tall task =X
02:33 < dx> pdelvo: you can unzip the jars to folders as long as they have the same name, so probably you can.
02:33 < Ampzilla> that's how you have to unload the native dlls if you want to launch minecraft the same way the official launcher does
02:34 < dx> Ampzilla: does this code do what you want to do? https://github.com/SinZ163/SinZ-MC-Launcher/tree/master/SinZ%20MC%20Launcher/Download
02:35 < dav1d> this all sucks
02:35 < dav1d> in python I would so use a set
02:35 < dav1d> but meh
02:36 < Ampzilla> dx: kind of, it shows how to download the current version jar file
02:36 < Ampzilla> dx: doesn't help explain where all the directories/files outside of the "versions" folder comes from
02:36 < Ampzilla> I need to dig around though
02:36 < dx> Ampzilla: https://github.com/SinZ163/SinZ-MC-Launcher/blob/master/SinZ%20MC%20Launcher/Mojang/VersionList.cs ?
02:37 < Ampzilla> sorry, yes, I'm blind
02:37 < Ampzilla> <3
02:37 <+pdelvo> Oh noes. Application.DoEvents(). :(
02:37 < dav1d> pdelvo: is that bad?
02:37 < Ampzilla> sounds bad =X
02:37 <+pdelvo> jeah it is
02:37 < dx> is that something to continue the main loop from any part of the code?
02:37 < dav1d> sounds like a gui toolkits yield
02:37 < Ampzilla> I think I'll either use the async download file method or use a .net background worker
02:38 < SinZ> dx: that is my outdated code
02:38 < dx> dav1d: yeah, i'm thinking the same
02:38 < dx> SinZ: whoops.
02:38 < Ampzilla> Hey SinZ
02:38 < dav1d> now I need to transform client coordinates into block coordinates
02:38 < dav1d> 2:38am -_-
02:38 < dav1d> floor?
02:38 < dx> 21:38am -_-
02:38 < dav1d> I've already done that somewhere in my code
02:38 < dav1d> ...
02:39 <+pdelvo> 2:38 am. I have to wake up at 6:00 am :D
02:39 < dav1d> pdelvo: don't go to bed, problem solved
02:40 <+pdelvo> great idea :)
02:40 < Ampzilla> the weekend went by so fast
02:41 < dx> ...why did i think today is monday
02:41 <+pdelvo> its is monday for me :(
02:41 < dx> probably the same reason i wrote "am" in the message up there
02:41 < Ampzilla> dx: this is exactly what I need
02:41 < dx> Ampzilla: \o/
02:43 < dav1d> ok
02:43 < dav1d> floor seems to be right
02:43 < dx> SinZ: can't find license text anywhere :/. feels uncomfortable to suggest someone to use your code for inspiration if that isn't clear
02:43 < Ampzilla> agreed
02:44 < SinZ> dx: I could never chose a license
02:44 < dx> SinZ: hm? why not?
02:45 < dav1d> maaaaan
02:45 < dav1d> fcorner.x.floor.to!int,
02:45 < SinZ> too many to chose from, wil prob be apache license or something
02:45 < dav1d> is this cool, or not?
02:46 < dx> dav1d: hold on, gotta find the rosetta stone for these runes you wrote
02:46 < dav1d> :>
02:46 < dav1d> instead of: to!int(floor(fcorner.x))
02:47 <+pdelvo> reminds me to extension method in c#
02:49 < dav1d> http://vp.dav1d.de/2o4 ... I think I should slap myself for hardcoding this
02:50 < dav1d> might do later
02:50 <+pdelvo> gn8
02:51 < dav1d> gn8 pdelvo!
03:03 < LaxWasHere> Hola!
03:04 < dx> dammit lax is here
03:04 < mbaxter> No dx
03:04 < LaxWasHere> I was never here.
03:04 < mbaxter> He was here. This is merely his memory.
03:04 < dx> okay
03:04 < dx> mbaxter: oh that makes sense
03:04 < mbaxter> it's but an echo
03:04 < mbaxter> of laxes past
03:04 < LaxWasHere> Educate yourself young man. http://youtu.be/BTOODPf-iuc
03:05 < LaxWasHere> Time to build my Freenode empire
03:05 < dx> i think i saw this video
03:11 < dav1d> dammit
03:11 < dav1d> I am nearly 2m
03:40 < PlayerW_OName> how do i send that json to auth server? Will OutputStreamWriter do the job?
03:41 < Ampzilla> streamwriter works
03:41 < Ampzilla> especially if your json is just a string =D
03:41 < PlayerW_OName> lul, returns HTTP response code 400
03:41 < Ampzilla> could be a formatting issue with your json?
03:42 < PlayerW_OName> no, json parser worked well with it
03:42 < Ampzilla> username/password issue?
03:42 < PlayerW_OName> wait, i'll check that again
03:44 < PlayerW_OName> would username or password return bad request?
03:44 < Ampzilla> no idea to be honest
03:44 < PlayerW_OName> rather bad login-something
03:44 < Ampzilla> what uri?
03:45 < Ampzilla> and you are posting for sure
03:45 < Ampzilla> ?
03:45 < PlayerW_OName> wait, ill put whole code on pastebin
03:45 < Ampzilla> k
03:45 < PlayerW_OName> yes, post
03:45 < Ampzilla> remove username/pw if it's hardcoded =D
03:45 < Ampzilla> unless you have an actual file
03:45 < Ampzilla> unlike me lol
03:46 < PlayerW_OName> http://pastebin.com/PiEzbR62
03:47 < PlayerW_OName> easy, no hardcoding(excluding json xD)
03:47 < TkTech> MediaWiki's database is so convoluted...
03:52 < Ampzilla> the only thing I'm not sure about is the charset
03:53 < Ampzilla> I'm not even sure it matters, but it's really the only difference I see
03:55 < Ampzilla> http://pastebin.com/iVejkB4G
03:56 < Not-003> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 4 commits to master [+2/-0/±10] http://git.io/zGSHRQ
03:56 < Not-003> [BraLa] Dav1dde 2fcdd7d - fix pseudoqueue
03:56 < Not-003> [BraLa] Dav1dde a4e2c3e - use queue.get_all
03:56 < Not-003> [BraLa] Dav1dde 65a86dc - move camera from feet to head
03:56 < Not-003> [BraLa] Dav1dde aab8df4 - implement very basic physics, well bounds checking
03:57 < PlayerW_OName> changed from text/json; charset=utf-8 to application/json and still same HTTP_400
03:57 < PlayerW_OName> ;(
04:00 <+AndrewPH> TkTech: hah you think mediawiki's bad
04:01 <+AndrewPH> i have some horror stories that I'm not at liberty to share
04:02 < Ampzilla> Even if the json string had an error I think it would still work, I just broke mine and it still returned data
04:04 < Ampzilla> PlayerW_OName: Is it possible you are requesting the response to quickly after writing the json to the output stream?
04:05 < PlayerW_OName> no, after clicking login, it hangs program for about 5 seconds
04:06 < Ampzilla> that hang could be from resolving the url though, no?
04:06 < PlayerW_OName> hmm
04:06 < PlayerW_OName> wait
04:07 < Ampzilla> what about move the input.read outside of the try block? I think you would have to declare it above the try, initialize it in the try and then read after it requests all of the data
04:11 < PlayerW_OName> no, it reads and saves to byte array
04:13 < PlayerW_OName> btw input.read needs try,catch :P
04:14 < Ampzilla> oh okay sorry
04:15 < Ampzilla> is it a 400 or a 40x?
04:15 < PlayerW_OName> 400
04:15 < PlayerW_OName> bad request
04:24 < Ampzilla> Do you need to do something with the "Authentication" property of the HttpURLConnection?
04:24 < Ampzilla> just randomly guessing at this point
04:27 < PlayerW_OName> nevermin, i did it
04:27 < Ampzilla> what was the problem?
04:27 < PlayerW_OName> idk, i used that: http://www.xyzws.com/Javafaq/how-to-use-httpurlconnection-post-data-to-web-server/139
04:27 < PlayerW_OName> :P
04:28 < PlayerW_OName> return excutePost("https://authserver.mojang.com/authenticate", jsonEncoded); :P
04:28 < PlayerW_OName> oh, and changed application/x-www-form-urlencoded to application/json
04:29 < Ampzilla> content length and the content type are different than what you had
04:29 < Ampzilla> I bet you that was the problem
04:29 < Ampzilla> especially the content length
04:30 < PlayerW_OName> i didn;t had length :P
04:30 < Ampzilla> yeah that's what I mean
04:31 < Ampzilla> who knows, I didn't have that either actually so nevermind, good job getting it to work
04:32 < Ampzilla> i'll tackle this asset download stuff tomorrow, see ya
12:58 < PlayerW_OName> hello
12:58 <+pdelvo> hi
13:01 < PlayerW_OName> ok, when i send empty clientToken in JSON, shouldn't mojang reply me correct token?
14:13 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/z8oaUw
14:13 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath fd7055a - Fix hay block placement
14:58 <+sadimusi> I'm rewriting all the yggdrasil stuff on the session page, does it look ok so far? http://wiki.vg/Session#Authentication
15:05 <+sadimusi> and I noticed we're missing the {{citation needed}} template :D
15:07 < Jckf> sadimusi: Great! I can finally update my tools' login classes \o/
15:08 < Jckf> Has anyone here started poking around Cube World, by the way?
15:08 <+pdelvo> jeah I started but I dont havent done much
15:10 < Jckf> Ditto. I started on a proof of concept man in the middle proxy, but so far I can't even log in =D
15:10 < Jckf> I also snagged the domain cwdevs.org
15:10 < Jckf> The same way I originally snagged mcdevs.org and pissed TkTech off *blush*
15:11 <+pdelvo> nice :D
15:12 < Jckf> Technical information about CW seems to be pretty spread out right now
15:12 < Jckf> so the idea was a wiki like wiki.vg
15:12 <+sadimusi> why like it?
15:12 <+sadimusi> the idea was to do it _on_ wiki.vg
15:12 < Jckf> Perhaps with support from you people =)
15:12 < Jckf> Orly?
15:12 <+pdelvo> tktech wanted to put a cubeworld section on wiki.vg
15:13 < Jckf> Oh cool
15:13  * Jckf hasn't been paying attention in class
15:14 < Jckf> Well then
15:14 < Jckf> At least we have a useless domain =)
15:15 < TkTech> The cubeworld guys haven't been horribly responsive, was trying to get permission to use some media assets like the logo.
15:15 < TkTech> They've kinda dropped off the face of the internet.
15:17 < TkTech> sadimusi: Looks good, IMO the page should be split into the old and the new, and Snoop on its own page.
15:17 < TkTech> sadimusi: I'd also list some of the known exception types.
15:17 <+sadimusi> good idea
15:17 <+sadimusi> I also wanted to split up the page
15:17 <+sadimusi> the updating part doesn't really belong there either
15:18 < TkTech> (Some of the Exceptions seem useful, like UserMigratedException (https://gist.github.com/TkTech/1ac813864258a885d383))
15:20 <+sadimusi> I keep getting "Bad login" on joinserver.jsp, maybe the session id wasn't documented correctly by itsme
15:22 < TkTech> sadimusi: It looks okay from my recollection. Try doing it as a POST not a GET.
15:24 <+sadimusi> TkTech: POST gives 504 (gateway timeout)
15:27 <+sadimusi> m( just forgot the "token:"
15:31 < TkTech> sadimusi: It works as a GET? I thought that was deprecated eons ago.
15:31 <+sadimusi> nope, works fine
16:08 <+sadimusi> did the old login system have a name too?
16:10 < TkTech> sadimusi: Not that I ever knew of
16:18 < TkTech> Wonder if there's any way to get top contributor for each month on the wiki, send them the local value of a case of beer.
16:20 < TkTech> Looks like a bunch of extensions do user "scoring", but focused on all-time vs. monthly.
16:24 <+sadimusi> I'm not sure if a automated system is the best idea
16:27 < iBotPeaches> yeah whoever moves the pre-release into protocol, gets major contribution :o
16:31 <+sadimusi> at this rate the spambots make the recent changes page almost unusable :/
16:31 <+sadimusi> is there a better way to hide them than namespace=0?
16:32 < Thinkofdeath> sadimusi: http://wiki.vg/index.php?namespace=2&invert=1&title=Special%3ARecentChanges
16:33 <+sadimusi> oh, there was even a checkmark for it o.O
16:33 <+sadimusi> thanks
16:33 < Thinkofdeath> np
16:33 < iBotPeaches> sweet, can that be made the default of that link
16:33 <+sadimusi> I guess I can live without seeing changes to user pages anyway
16:35 <+sadimusi> confirming users might take a few more clicks
16:36 <+sadimusi> TkTech: thoughts?
16:37 <+sadimusi> I'll just change it, if somebody complains we can still revert it
16:38 < TkTech> sadimusi: What's up?
16:39 <+sadimusi> since Special:Resent Changes is useless we want to exclude the user namespace
16:40 < TkTech> Wait, what? What are you changing?
16:40 <+sadimusi> I haven't done anything yet
16:41 <+sadimusi> the idea is to change the link in the sidebar to something useful
16:41 < TkTech> Ah
16:41 < TkTech> The script *is* banning them. They apparently have an infinite number of IPs.
16:42 <+sadimusi> the markup of the sidebar is weird as hell, I'm not even sure it accepts absolute links without a domain
16:42 < TkTech> set(['50.115.174.119', '46.246.61.139', '91.121.28.133', '91.237.249.248', '188.165.85.106', '124.207.18.105', '142.4.213.113', '80.79.122.8', '188.165.121.232', '188.165.252.20', '80.79.122.3', '85.192.166.187', '151.237.190.164', '8.18.120.77', '192.95.12.192', '78.46.161.237', '92.228.176.39', '188.116.20.84', '46.118.123.81', '173.236.32.221', '5.135.30.145', '175.144.178.198', '188.165.247.184', '94.23.176.111', 'BrendaDonnelly', '46.105.247.245',
16:42 < TkTech>  '50.115.163.232', '188.165.121.227', '91.121.4.183', '151.237.190.173', '74.221.220.70', '87.98.137.11', '91.121.87.138', '91.237.249.101', '108.178.5.238', '46.164.19.62', '173.232.7.49', '38.105.21.195', '37.113.153.153', '108.163.228.14', '108.163.228.12', '142.4.212.227', '172.246.115.66', '74.118.200.106', '108.62.71.157', '173.237.182.76', '46.105.187.254', '50.115.168.140', '216.152.252.236', '69.175.94.14', '125.44.15.244', '74.221.217.218', '66.248.20
16:42 < TkTech> 2.179', '91.237.249.168', '199.204.45.205', '50.2.194.183', '110.77.234.26', '199.119.227.234', '142.91.79.6', '5.135.167.147', '5.135.53.242', '199.119.225.74', 'HaydenEEAC', '94.23.234.194', '173.234.196.195', '62.219.3.11', '27.154.11.160', '5.135.43.153', '37.59.56.147', '142.4.213.30', '198.175.126.45', '110.85.112.23', '108.178.53.174', '198.50.28.130', '216.152.251.37', '5.135.113.155', '206.214.82.164', '188.165.192.211', '142.91.79.198', '187.188.134.4
16:42 < TkTech> 5', '184.22.115.74', 'Bradly60Hxfdijn', '173.234.226.27', '142.4.213.27', '142.4.213.26', '142.4.213.25', '130.185.156.69', '198.143.143.43', '96.127.151.204', '66.248.194.30', '5.135.47.87', 'RitaDailyzukzy', '37.59.176.223', '69.162.119.3', '184.105.235.141'])
16:42 < TkTech> Ah shit, meant to paste the gist URL.
16:46 < iBotPeaches> is the ip ban, script level or server level?
16:49 < TkTech> It's a mediawiki ban, not iptables or anything.
16:49 < TkTech> https://gist.github.com/TkTech/6000549
16:49 < TkTech> ^- Just a horrible, horrible quick script.
16:51 <+sadimusi> of course the RecentChanges template doesn't recognize the invert option -.-
16:51 <+sadimusi> guess the only solution is an ugly absolute link to index.php in the sidebar
16:54 <+sadimusi> hm, what if we treat new users as bots? they should be hidden automatically
16:54 <+sadimusi> that would probably be the least hacky solution I can come up with
16:56 <+sadimusi> TkTech: didn't you want to keep beta.wiki.vg to play around with? 
16:57 <+sadimusi> @off-topic: best use of U+202E I've seen so far https://twitter.com/mikko/status/356788263719170048/photo/1
17:18 < TkTech> sadimusi: I did, haven't gotten around to it yet.
17:18 < TkTech> sadimusi: If you just want to play with a template there's the sandbox on the wiki proper.
17:18 < TkTech> sadimusi: My idea for beta.wiki.vg was testing backups/restores, new extensions, core configuration changes, etc...
17:18 <+sadimusi> I just installed my own instance to play around
17:19 <+sadimusi> making users bots by default would definitely be a core configuration we should test first
17:24 <+sadimusi> TkTech: my idea seems to be working fine
17:24 < TkTech> sadimusi: Which one is that?
17:24 < TkTech> (I'm at work, sorry for the delays)
17:25 <+sadimusi> no problem
17:25 <+sadimusi> $wgGroupPermissions['user']['bot'] = true;
17:25 <+sadimusi> $wgRevokePermissions['Confirmed']['bot'] = true;
17:26 < TkTech> No way, mon.
17:26 <+sadimusi> I created a user, confirmed him and he made an edit. this is the result: http://ceilingcat.ch/wiki/index.php?title=Special:RecentChanges
17:26 < TkTech> The bot group is special, you do not want to assign new users to it.
17:26 < TkTech> Or any real users.
17:27 <+sadimusi> why not?
17:27 <+sadimusi> it's not a group, it's a permission
17:27 <+sadimusi> and confirmed users won't have it
17:27 <+sadimusi> and most unconfirmed users actually _are_ bots
17:28 < TkTech> It just seems like hiding them by default is a bad idea.
17:31 <+sadimusi> why is that? you can still just click on "show bots"
17:32 < TkTech> "You can hide the dirt under the rug, but you can still see it if you lift up a corner."...
17:32 < TkTech> Just think there should be a better solution.
17:32 < TkTech> How does wikipedia prevent signup spam?
17:33 <+sadimusi> they don't
17:34 <+sadimusi> you won't ever see more than a minute of edits on RecentChanges anyway
17:34 <+sadimusi> *5 minutes
17:34 <+sadimusi> hm no, on all namespaces it's way less than a minute
17:36 <+sadimusi> I still don't quite follow your logic. we want to hide account creation from recent changes, and the best solution is bad because it hides account creation from recent changes?
17:37 < TkTech> We don't want to hide account creation from recent changes.
17:38 < TkTech> We want to slow the bot spam to a trickle so we don't even care.
17:38 <+sadimusi> the ideal solution would be no bots, yes
17:38 <+sadimusi> but that ain't happaning
18:08 < TkTech> sadimusi: Lets see how this does.\
18:16 <+sadimusi> TkTech: your gist could use a client token, it always invalidates all my access tokens ;)
18:16 < TkTech> Whoops
18:29 < TkTech> Jckf: Feel free to do CubeWorlds on the wiki, I was thinking in the CW: namespace.
18:30 <+sadimusi> TkTech: looking at my line counts, an automated system for that case of beer might be a good idea after all :)
18:30 < TkTech> Jckf: I've spoken to some of the people doing their own RE and they're open to content being copied (with attribution)
18:30 < Jckf> TkTech: Yeah, I was just about to say that I don't have any original content yet
18:30 < TkTech> sadimusi: 'twas a silly idea.
18:31 < Jckf> TkTech: But I am hoping to get some stuff done this week. Just have my hands full with work and Minecraft duties ;p
18:31 < TkTech> Jckf: http://wiki.project-kube.de/index.php?title=Main_Page would be a good place to start.
18:31 < TkTech> Jckf: I convinced him to re-licence under the CC share-alike.
18:32 < Jckf> That's where I've gotten most of my protocol stuff from ;)
18:32 < Jckf> That, and CuWo's source on GitHub
18:34 < Jckf> TkTech: I can cname cwdevs.org to mcdevs.org if you wish to put something there
18:34 < TkTech> Jckf: mcdevs.org will shortly just be a namespace on wiki.vg.
18:35 < TkTech> Consolidate and simplify.
18:35 < Jckf> You're dropping the domain?
18:35 < TkTech> What? No. It'll redirect to http://wiki.vg/mcdevs:about or what not
18:35 < Jckf> Right, good =)
18:36 < Jckf> So I'll cname it. Handle the 0 visitors as you please
18:38 < Jckf> Done
18:40 < Jckf> Hm. Someone (not me) just dropped pizza on my laptop *shrugs*
18:44 < SimSonic> Good time of a day to all, I found that my account on wiki.vg was deleted and I should reregister and ask here for editing rights.
18:45 <+pdelvo> whats your name on wiki.vg?
18:48 < SimSonic> SimSonic
18:48 <+pdelvo> confirmed
18:48 <+pdelvo> you have write access now
18:49 < SimSonic> Thanks
19:12 < TkTech> sadimusi: That's better I think, no spam in 60 minutes.
20:01 < TkTech> sadimusi: http://wiki.vg/MCDevs/rules#Suggestions
20:01 < TkTech> sadimusi: You can do horrible, horrible things with page css overrides.
20:18 < iBotPeaches> lots o whitespace, looks good
21:27 < TkTech> Off-topic: Anyone in Toronto and looking for a job? Assuming you've got some public work I can take a look at I have a few fellows looking for referrals.
22:57 < superjoe> TkTech, no remote work, eh?
23:13 < TkTech> superjoe: I'm not sure, actually. You'd have to make a few trips at least for in-person interviews.
23:14 < TkTech> sadimusi: I've made some changes again. I've ditched confirmations (backed up just in case) and switched to a question on registration plus a handful of DNSBLs.
23:14 < TkTech> sadimusi: Someone *please* give me better questions and answers…right now the only one is "Snow White and The Seven ______" => "Dwarfs" because I happened to be looking at a movie listing.
23:15 <+sadimusi> I was just looking at it and thought it was pretty horrible :D
23:17 <+sadimusi> TkTech: if one single question keeps off the spam, you could make it pretty easy (but minecraft related)
23:17 < iBotPeaches> a zombie in minecraft is called (3 letters) ___ 
23:17 < TkTech> It's a list of question (which can be dynamic) and answer (which can also be dynamic).
23:17 < iBotPeaches> boom bots would never know that, unless hardcoded
23:18 < TkTech> The problem is the kid in Taiwan getting $1 per 1000 questions.
23:18 < TkTech> They'll need to be switched up every so often.
23:18 < iBotPeaches> derivative of 10x^2 + 10x + 5
23:20 < dexter0> Probably shouldn't be MC related if you want to expand the wiki to cover CW.
23:20 < TkTech> ^
23:20 <+sadimusi> I kinda liked the previous approach, but I guess this can work too
23:22 <+sadimusi> if there's a Taiwanese kid, shouldn't we just create a single question and change it regularly?
23:23 < TkTech> Good point.
23:23 < TkTech> Could still use a better default question.
23:23 <+sadimusi> should it be CS related?
23:24 < TkTech> In a perfect world, it would be a context-sensitive question but one that's simple enough for youths to get (no complex questions about math or CS)
23:24 <+sadimusi> I should be working on my bachelor thesis, so I have all the motivation in the world to work on the wiki :)
23:24 < TkTech> Haha.
23:26 <+sadimusi> if it doesn't matter if the taiwanese kid gets it it can be very simple
23:26 <+sadimusi> like "how many dimensions are there at least in our observable universe?"
23:26 <+sadimusi> (maybe not simple enough, 3 and 4 might both be acceptable answers)
23:28 < iBotPeaches> What is the 4th dimension?, perfect questions
23:28 <+sadimusi> time of course
23:29  * sadimusi didn't completely read your statement
23:29 < iBotPeaches> a little kid might not know that
23:29 <+sadimusi> might be a little bit to hard, but do we really want little kids?
23:30 < iBotPeaches> isn't it a developer oriented wiki anyway
23:30 < iBotPeaches> a tough question wouldn't harm anything
23:30 <+sadimusi> best question: "which is the best programming language?"
23:30 <+sadimusi> only acceptable answer: none
23:31 < dexter0> lol
23:31 <+sadimusi> (some result in permanent ban)
23:31 < iBotPeaches> "Spell jeb's last name?"
23:31 < iBotPeaches> answer: can't
23:31 <+sadimusi> what is he called?
23:31 < iBotPeaches> jenn*
23:31 < iBotPeaches> jen*****
23:32 <+sadimusi> Jens Bergensten doesn't look so hard to spell
23:32 <+sadimusi> or is google wrong?
23:32 < dexter0> that's mc specific though
23:33 <+sadimusi> "what character was used to add colors to chat messages in the good old times?"
23:33 < mbaxter> Steve. The answer is Steve.
23:33 <+sadimusi> the answer herobrine should always be accepted
23:34 <+sadimusi> "what was removed from minecraft in update xxxx?"
23:35 < iBotPeaches> "what is block id 63?"
23:36 <+sadimusi> at least make it 46
23:36 < dexter0> ha
23:36 <+sadimusi> what about what is is 17 in hexadecimal?
23:37 <+sadimusi> that should be trivial for anyone visiting the wiki
23:38 < iBotPeaches> multi question, what is 17 in hex, oct, dec, binary
23:39 <+sadimusi> why do programmers confuse christmas and halloween?
23:39 <+sadimusi> because oct 31 = dec 25
23:39 < iBotPeaches> LOL
23:41 <+sadimusi> iBotPeaches: how does the SS update go btw?
23:42 < iBotPeaches> haven't had a crash on the newest copy, so seems pretty good. Someone said buhkit chats aren't filtered or something correctly
23:42 < mappum> why do java developers wear glasses?
23:42 < iBotPeaches> but I've never ran it, so I'll have to set that up and test this weekend
23:42 < mappum> because they don't C#
23:42 <+sadimusi> mappum: :D
23:43 <+pdelvo> just make everybody upload a pic with their personal "minecraft development face"
23:43 <+sadimusi> A programmers wife sends him to the store and says "get some bread, and while you're there pick up some eggs" The programmer never came back.
23:44 <+sadimusi> (via http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/1h1cyg/whats_the_most_intellectual_joke_you_know)
23:44 < mappum> lol
23:44 < mappum> I have a joke about UDP, but you probably wouldn't get it
23:44 < iBotPeaches> I wish I had the xkcd one, it was about dropping tables
23:44 <+sadimusi> little billy tables?
23:45 <+sadimusi> http://xkcd.com/327/ ?
23:45 < mappum> you named your son "Bob '; DROP TABLE students"?
23:45 <+sadimusi> *bobby
23:45 < iBotPeaches> yes love it :)
23:46 <+sadimusi> look at how horrible xkcd looked back then :)
23:46 < mappum> what do you mean? it's the same
23:47 <+sadimusi> not really
23:47 < iBotPeaches> harder to read, less dark, weird text
23:47 < iBotPeaches> it got better over the years :)
23:48 < mappum> true
23:48 <+sadimusi> one of my favorites is still http://xkcd.com/349/
23:49 <+sadimusi> and I still get myself into this situation sometimes
23:50  * sadimusi 's znc is running on the combination of two macbooks which fell victim to linux installers
23:52 <+sadimusi> back on topic: how about "I put on my robe and ______ hat"
23:54 <+sadimusi> or how about "I accidentally ____ 93MB of .rar files"
--- Day changed mar. juil. 16 2013
01:06 < barneygale> sadimusi: love early xkcd, but I'm sure it's only for nostalgia value. One of the few things I don't feel has gone downhill heh
01:06 < barneygale> randall munroe's a cool guy. he helped me buy a server once!
02:26 < alasi> hi guys
02:28 <+pdelvo> hi
02:28 < alasi> I'm here because I'm curious about multiplayer packets
02:31 <+sadimusi> alasi: have a look at wiki.vg
02:31 < alasi> yeah, i'm there now
02:31 < alasi> Just noticed the channel written on it so I thought I'd come by :P
02:31 <+sadimusi> you might have already noticed; the protocol is pretty horrible ;)
02:32 < alasi> Yeah :P
02:32 < alasi> I'm no java developer
02:32 < alasi> I just wanna make a client in nodejs
02:32 < alasi> An invisible one
02:33 <+sadimusi> invisible in what sense?
02:33 < alasi> As in, not a visible "steve". The purpose is to use the server's player/world data for a greater cause
02:33 < alasi> With the server owners consent of course
02:33 < alasi> It's like a robotic drone
02:34 <+sadimusi> and what would it do?
02:36 < alasi> Well I would like start with using some attibutes (time, weather)
02:36 < alasi> and they could broadcast to my node servers as a widget a server owner could embed on their site
02:37 < alasi> But I might go up to a widget that renders a view of the server
02:37 < alasi> Maybe an auto-camera that pans around what players are doing
02:37 <+sadimusi> good luck with that :D
02:38 < alasi> yeah :P
02:38 < alasi> There are some existing things people have written, like a bot that IS visible and can do pathfinding and whatnot
02:38 <+sadimusi> to me it sounds like all of this would work much better as a bukkit plugin than a client
02:38 < alasi> sadimusi: That was my original thought
02:38 <+sadimusi> mineflayer?
02:39 < alasi> Yeah, that changed my perspective :D
02:39 < alasi> You familiar with that stuff?
02:39 <+sadimusi> of course
02:39 < alasi> With node and everything?
02:39 <+sadimusi> I have written some things in node, but I wouldn't consider myself a node programmer
02:40 < alasi> Yeah, me either xD
02:40 < alasi> on npm, I found this https://npmjs.org/package/minecraft-protocol
02:41 <+sadimusi> I think that's written by superjoe
02:41 < alasi> but this doesnt sound promising: "gets kicked when no credentials supplied in online mode (4678ms)"
02:41 <+sadimusi> he's here as well
02:41 < alasi> yeah, he online?
02:41 < alasi> I dont want to ping any of these guys >
02:41 <+sadimusi> looks like he's afk
02:41 < alasi> oh ok
02:42 < alasi> Do you know when he's usually active? Ever?
02:42 <+sadimusi> not sure when he's usually around, but he's here often
02:42 < alasi> hm ok!
02:42 <+sadimusi> still, I don't think a client is the right approach
02:42 < alasi> yeah
02:43 < alasi> I'm thinking if the bukkit plugin used websockets to the node server
02:43 < alasi> But again, I hate java
02:43 <+sadimusi> there are also some bukkit plugins providing a json api for a webinterface
02:44 < alasi> thats cool
02:44 < alasi> I'm looking to use a protocol thats more realtime than Dynmap used
02:44 < alasi> I think it was ajax or something *shudder*
02:46 <+sadimusi> I'm sure there's a way to use websockets in java
02:46 < alasi> I'm guessing bukkit has a higher level of support for accessing server attributes than parsing packets
02:46 <+sadimusi> but I wouldn't make the detour over nodejs
02:46 < alasi> yeah
02:46 < alasi> sadimusi: What do you mean?
02:46 < alasi> Java does have a sockets api built in I believe
02:46 < alasi> *an import of course
02:47 <+sadimusi> (2:43:20 AM) alasi: I'm thinking if the bukkit plugin used websockets to the node server
02:47 <+sadimusi> just use websockets to the browser
02:47 <+sadimusi> no need for nodejs
02:47 < alasi> Yeah
02:47 < alasi> Because my original idea was to make it a PaaS
02:47 < alasi> so it would have to be routed through nodejs
02:47 <+sadimusi> and obviously the server has access to pretty much every detail of the game, unlike a client
02:47 < alasi> Yes
02:48 <+sadimusi> I don't really see the benefit of paas here
02:50 < alasi> sadimusi: For hosting the widget, maybe as a standalone site, I wanted ease of use for the server owners (installing a plugin and using a web based control panel), but I DID want a little moola..
02:50 < alasi> I would open source a lot of the components
02:50 < alasi> The hosting/control panels/integration would be the part I would close up
02:51 <+sadimusi> well, afaik websockets are not subjected to the same origin policy, so you can easily host the widget on your server but use websockets from the original server
02:52 < alasi> wat
02:52 < alasi> The websockets are broadcast to the PaaS
02:52 < alasi> was my plan
02:52 <+sadimusi> but why would you do that?
02:53 < alasi> For most server owners, installing nodejs etc is a pain
02:53 <+sadimusi> connecting them directly to the browsers makes much more sense
02:53 < alasi> Oh thats what you mean
02:53 <+sadimusi> as you said sourself, java is perfectly capable of providing websockets
02:53 < alasi> hm
02:55 < alasi> idk why, but I dont like that must transparency. If I put it thru the node server, just even by re echoing it, I could make the Paas control what the browser sees, making less data to be sent to the browser
02:55 < alasi> The paas would be the camera bot, which only exposes the data to the browser that it sees
02:56 < alasi> Instead of using much more bandwidth/packets
02:57 < alasi> Instead of making the bukkit plugin the camera bot either, you route it thru the node server so a server owner could declare the path of the camera straight from a web interface
02:59 <+sadimusi> sure you can do that, it'll just be a bit slower
02:59 <+sadimusi> and use much more of your bandwidth
03:00 < alasi> like, paas's bandwidth?
03:01 <+sadimusi> yes
03:01 < alasi> Because the concern is the browser's bandwidth, isnt that a bigger concern?
03:01 <+sadimusi> that would be exactly the same
03:01 < alasi> paas lag > browser lag
03:01 < alasi> but again, the paas is restricting the amount data sent to browser
03:02 < alasi> It's just sending the rendering path of the camera drone
03:02 < alasi> to the browser
03:02 < alasi> ^these are my plans
03:06 <+sadimusi> so the browser will render it?
03:07 < alasi> Render as in the 3d sense, yes
03:07 < alasi> threejs/voxeljs
03:07 < alasi> But since it's attribute based, not say video stream based, it uses less bandwidth
03:08 < alasi> And more customizable
03:08 <+sadimusi> and won't work at all
03:08 < alasi> why
03:08 < alasi> The concept of it, or the logic?
03:09 <+sadimusi> both are fine, but browsers just aren't ready to render minecraft
03:09 <+sadimusi> someone once tried to make a webGL based client
03:09 <+sadimusi> didn't work out very well
03:09 < alasi> sadimusi: Check this out mate http://voxeljs.com/
03:09 < alasi> Remember its just block/player data, no world data needed
03:09 < alasi> inventory, particles? no
03:10 < alasi> Mineflayer itself achieved this: https://github.com/vogonistic/mineflayer-voxel
03:11 < alasi> Look at this !! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjDmAfcVulQ
03:11 <+sadimusi> those are much better than the first efforts, but they're still nowhere near the vanilla client
03:12 < alasi> So maybe the shaders wont be accurate (or existent), and maybe the movement wont look as real as minecraft itself, but you're still streaming the server's awesome taj mahal!
03:14 < alasi> or 1 trillionth survival games match featuring capta1nsparklez (im not talking any chances pinging someone here)
03:15 < alasi> Theyre nowhere near the vanilla client, well thats what I'm trying to do myself
03:18 <+sadimusi> what about mobile devices?
03:18 <+sadimusi> or just outdated PCs?
03:18 < alasi> sadimusi: Thats not part of the target group, then
03:18 < alasi> If they dont support webgl, they dont support minecraft
03:21 < alasi> so uh yeah
03:26 < alasi> sadimusi: have you written any bukkit plugins before?
03:26 <+sadimusi> no
03:26 < alasi> oh ok
03:27 <+sadimusi> this channel is more about doing things from scratch
03:27 < alasi> ah
03:27 <+sadimusi> but there are some bukkit devs in here
03:28 < alasi> I'll be back here tomorrow, maybe sup3rj0e will be online. Thanks for your help!
03:29 <+sadimusi> no problem
03:29 <+sadimusi> see you
03:29 < alasi> cya
03:29 < alasi> *all
03:29 <+clonejo> A web based MC client could be done with asm.js
03:30 <+sadimusi> clonejo: why not just compile vanilla minecraft with jasmin and run it with asm.js :P
03:31 <+sadimusi> no wait, jasmin was something else
03:32 <+sadimusi> right, it's called GCJ
03:32 <+clonejo> I'm not sure if gcj is mature enough
03:32 <+sadimusi> I'm pretty sure it isn't
03:32 <+sadimusi> I've never heard of anyone using it
03:33 <+sadimusi> last update seems to be in 2009
04:17 < Ampzilla> sadimusi: thanks for updating the wiki regarding game files/login
08:35 <+AndrewPH> clonejo: a web-based MC client could be done with java
11:01 < ffmdr> my bouncer sucks, it left the channel after few days of inactivity :/
11:09 < ffmdr> md_5: if you responded to my question few days ago could you quote? my bouncer failed 
11:44 <+md_5> uh
11:44 <+md_5> idk what I said
11:44 <+md_5> java -jar SpecialSource.jar --help    is good ffmdr 
11:45 < ffmdr> I looked at the help -.-
11:46 < ffmdr> the problem is it will not remap field and method calls if I don't put the mod in jar with rest of minecraft
11:53 <+md_5> yeah
11:53 <+md_5> use the java -cp arg
11:53 <+md_5> and then use --live
11:54 <+md_5> it needs the rest of MC
11:54 <+md_5> so it can do inheirtance
11:55 <+clonejo> dav1d: Brala's version of glwtf doesn't compile for me: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/6007376
12:08 < ffmdr> md_5: that's awesome, thanks
14:33 <+sadimusi> Dinnerbone: are those access tokens supposed to be valid forever?
14:33 <+sadimusi> mine has now been valid for about 12 hours...
14:40 <+md_5> sadimusi yes they are
14:41 < SinZ> but you still need to refresh them iirc
14:41 <+sadimusi> no you don't, that's exactly my point
14:41 <+sadimusi> so all you have to do is prevent a client from refreshing it and you can use the stolen access token forever
14:41 <+sadimusi> without the user even noticing it
14:42 <+sadimusi> you only need to refresh when changing profiles, but that's not implemented yet...
14:43 <+sadimusi> maybe I shouldn't complain, it makes it much easier for third-party tools to use the launcher_profiles.json
14:50 < Dinnerbone> sadimusi: it will expire
14:50 < Dinnerbone> I don't know how long, maybe a week or so
14:51 <+sadimusi> that kinda defeats the whole point of the refreshing
14:51 < Dinnerbone> Not really?
14:51 < Dinnerbone> Without refreshing your token will expire after a period of time
14:52 < Dinnerbone> Refresh to extend it another [x period of time]
14:52 < Dinnerbone> Lets you "Remember me" for this time
14:52 <+sadimusi> that's fine, imo the period of time is just way too long
14:52 < Dinnerbone> If you log in at home and then go on a holiday for a weekend and come back, you kinda expect it to have remembered you
14:53 <+sadimusi> I should make myself clearer
14:53 <+sadimusi> you should still be able to refresh after a week, but not to join servers after 5 minutes
14:54 < Dinnerbone> How does that benefit us against malicious use of the token?
14:54 <+sadimusi> the attacker has to refresh it, so yours becomes invalid
14:55 < Dinnerbone> However the launcher always refreshes to make sure it's valid another week, so it would make theirs invalid if they didn't refresh it themselves
14:55 <+sadimusi> they would refresh it, but you'd notice it
14:55 < Dinnerbone> Okay let's draw this out
14:55 < Dinnerbone> Victim vs Attacker
14:56 < Dinnerbone> Victim using vanilla launcher, attacker stole the users tokens and is using a 3rd party tool to use them
14:56 < Dinnerbone> Scenario 1:
14:56 < Dinnerbone> Attacker refreshes token and plays minecraft.
14:57 < Dinnerbone> Victim opens the launcher. Launcher calls refresh to make sure he's still logged in, finds out he's not (token has already been used)
14:57 < Dinnerbone> Victim logs back in, attacker is logged out.
14:57 < Dinnerbone> Scenario 2:
14:57 < Dinnerbone> Attacker uses the token outright, doesn't refresh it.
14:57 < Dinnerbone> Victim opens launcher. Launcher calls refresh to make sure he's still logged in, finds out he is. New token is generated and old one is expired
14:57 < Dinnerbone> Attacker is logged out.
14:58 <+sadimusi> my issue with scenario 2 is that you never notice the attack
14:59 <+sadimusi> there should also be a scenario 3:
14:59 <+sadimusi> Attacker refreshes token and plays minecraft.
14:59 <+sadimusi> attacker wipes client token from victim's launcher_profiles.json
14:59 <+sadimusi> Victim opens the launcher. Launcher calls refresh to make sure he's still logged in, finds out he's not (token has already been used)
14:59 <+sadimusi> Victim logs back in, attacker is _not_ logged out.
15:00 < Dinnerbone> Nothing we can do about that aside from what we're already working on and I've told you about before; a list of your currently logged in locations from inside the launcher
15:01 <+sadimusi> yes, that will definitely help
15:01 < Dinnerbone> (With a button to log them out)
15:02 <+sadimusi> there should also be a way to do it on mojang.com, otherwise an attacker might just run a script to keep me out
15:02 < Dinnerbone> It will require elevated authentication; your username and password
15:02 < Dinnerbone> The attacked won't have this (if they do, website only won't help)
15:02 < Dinnerbone> s/attacked/attacker/
15:02 <+sadimusi> ok
15:05 < SimSonic> "location" means IP address?
15:06 < Dinnerbone> Yes
15:06 < Dinnerbone> And time
15:07 < Dinnerbone> Possibly geoip, I don't know
15:09 <+sadimusi> Dinnerbone: you convinced me (for now), the only thing you should probably still do is deleting the lastlogin file
15:09 <+sadimusi> maybe not now, but when nobody plays 1.5.x anymore
15:09 < Dinnerbone> Yes it will be done soon
15:10 < Dinnerbone> Thanks for the concerns!
15:11 <+sadimusi> well thanks for your elaborate answers
17:11 < superjoe> hello alasi 
17:11 < alasi> Ohai superjoe
17:12 < alasi> I really wanted to talk to you :D
17:12 < superjoe> I saw you were checking out some mineflayer stuff :)
17:12 < alasi> yeah
17:12 < alasi> Wait like on irc right?
17:12 < superjoe> uh
17:12 < alasi> nvm
17:12 < superjoe> yes
17:12 < alasi> heh
17:12 < alasi> So about mineflayer --
17:13 < alasi> Does the server it connects to, can it be a normal minecraft server?
17:13 < superjoe> yes
17:14 < alasi> and have you seen vogonostic's mineflayer voxel?
17:14 < superjoe> yep
17:14 < superjoe> pretty cool
17:14 < alasi> Yeah
17:14 < dexter0> link?
17:14 < superjoe> https://github.com/vogonistic/mineflayer-voxel
17:14 < alasi> https://github.com/vogonistic/mineflayer-voxel
17:14 < alasi> What part of mineflayer repo connects to the IP ?
17:15 < dexter0> ah, that is cool
17:15 < superjoe> there is a bunch of youtube stuff here: https://github.com/superjoe30/mineflayer#third-party-plugins
17:15 < alasi> brb
17:15 < superjoe> oh yeah and this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3AL5T4er7Y
17:17 < alasi> ooh
17:18 < alasi> So I'm planning to make a Paas the utilizes minecraft server data
17:18 < superjoe> Paas?
17:18 < alasi> And I'm trying to decide if I should do what you did, which is make a fake client
17:18 < alasi> yeah
17:18 < alasi> It's a hosted thing
17:19 < alasi> Server owners would subscribe
17:19 < superjoe> ah, platform as a service
17:19 < alasi> yes
17:19 < alasi> Well Product As Service sort of
17:19 < alasi> So yeah either a fake client or a bukkit plugin
17:19 < alasi> I saw in an npm
17:19 < alasi> called minecraft-protocol
17:20 < alasi> It parses mc packets, but apparently it'll get kicked for no identification? Does mineflayer get kicked from servers?
17:20 < superjoe> what makes you think it'll get kicked for no identification?
17:21 < alasi> gets kicked when no credentials supplied in online mode (4678ms) <<
17:21 < superjoe> that's happening to you?
17:21 < moejoe> hi all
17:21 < alasi> It says it on the npm page
17:22 < superjoe> alasi, I don't see what you're talking about
17:22 < alasi> https://npmjs.org/package/minecraft-protocol
17:22 < superjoe> oh. are you looking at the tests?
17:22 < alasi> yeah
17:22 < superjoe> okay... that is a test that makes sure if you connect to an "online-mode: true" server with no credentials, that you get kicked and are able to handle getting kicked properly
17:23 < superjoe> that means even the error conditions are working
17:23 < alasi> oh
17:23 < alasi> But would I be able to put a mineflayer bot on uberminecraft or something?
17:23 < alasi> And pwn people in the walls?
17:23 < superjoe> yes, assuming that uberminecraft is a vanilla server
17:23 < alasi> I doubt it
17:24 < alasi> There is like shopcraft or something
17:24 < superjoe> as long as you can play on uberminecraft with the normal client, without installing mods, then this package will work
17:24 < alasi> Oh cool
17:24 < moejoe> NickG around?
17:24 < superjoe> alasi, you're probably more interested in mineflayer
17:24 < alasi> superjoe: Yeah probably
17:24 < superjoe> which is still lagging behind by 1 minecraft version
17:25 < alasi> oh
17:25 < alasi> Maybe I should write a bukkit plugin then
17:25 < alasi> The idea is to make a voxeljs webview for a minecraft server
17:25 < alasi> And I'm deciding on streaming the view
17:26 < superjoe> neat
17:26 < alasi> yeah
17:26 < superjoe> vogonistic did a bunch of that work
17:26 < alasi> Yeah
17:26 < alasi> But again, it's mineflayer :P
17:26 < superjoe> there's not too much to do to get mineflayer up to date
17:27 < superjoe> I might get around to it this week
17:27 < alasi> oh cool
17:27 < alasi> Is there a way to make the bot hidden? (no steve visible, even when you list players)?
17:30 < superjoe> I hope not
17:30 < superjoe> that would be some pretty broken server logic
17:31 < alasi> oh
17:31 < alasi> Because I think it's a little intrusive if I had the camera bot (for streaming to the browser) visible and stalking all the players
17:31 < alasi> So I think I might go with websockets bukkit plugin
17:32 < superjoe> cool, have fun
17:32 < alasi> yeah..
17:32 < superjoe> yeah if you're trying to make a camera, you don't want a fake client
17:32 < superjoe> server plugin is a better way to go
17:32 < alasi> Ok, that's what I need to know 
17:33 < alasi> thanks
17:33 < superjoe> np
17:33 < superjoe> another possibility is a proxy
17:33 < alasi> How/What
17:33 < superjoe> sits in between the server and the clients
17:33 < alasi> Oh cool you work at learnboost?
17:34 < superjoe> no, I'm just the maintainer of one of their open source projects
17:34 < alasi> do the clients have to connect to that?
17:34 < alasi> Oh
17:34 < alasi> Yeah I saw juice
17:34 < superjoe> clients don't see anything different
17:34 < superjoe> you run both the proxy and the server on the server computer
17:34 < alasi> hmm
17:34 < superjoe> the real mc server is not exposed; it connects to the proxy
17:34 < superjoe> the proxy is exposed; the clients connect to it
17:35 < superjoe> since the proxy receives all the data for each client, you could do the camera thing
17:35 < alasi> But thats not very easy to implement for the server owners...
17:35 < superjoe> that might be a concern
17:35 < alasi> Yeah
17:35 < superjoe> I'm not familiar with server owners and what is or isn't convenient
17:36 < superjoe> I mean, I feel like my proxy is pretty easy to use
17:36 < alasi> The easiest thing would be 1) Fake Client 2) Bukkit plugin 3) Proxy
17:36 < superjoe> but I'm biased
17:36 < alasi> is it a standalone application?
17:36 < alasi> Fake client would be easiest to implement because the server owner could just use a web interface
17:36 < superjoe> yes it's a node program, you run it in the same folder as your minecraft server and it "just works"
17:36 < alasi> But again, nobody wants to install nodejs
17:36 < superjoe> orly
17:37 < superjoe> well they have to install *something*.
17:37 < alasi> I think bukkit might be easier to install
17:37 < alasi> Then the plugin broadcasts to the node server via websockets
17:37 < alasi> and there's no need to parse "ox10c" represents 'player update'
17:38 < alasi> Because I could have my own custom packet format
17:38 < alasi> idk
17:39 < superjoe> wait so there's already a node server?
17:39 < superjoe> so having node installed is a given
17:39 < alasi> Here's how I propose it be structured: Bukkit Plugin -> Paas (node server) -> Browser
17:40 < alasi> Node server would be hosted by Moi
17:40 < superjoe> node server sitting on the same machine as bukkit plugin?
17:40 < alasi> no
17:40 < alasi> It would be on nodejitsu or heroku or some shit
17:40 < superjoe> so you're sending the block data for every single client over the internet?
17:40 < alasi> Well yes, to the node server
17:41 < alasi> But theres even less data for the browser
17:41 < superjoe> and then sending it again to any connected clients
17:41 < alasi> ?
17:41 < superjoe> block data for every client travels over the internet for all connected clients to heroku
17:41 < alasi> no, it would be the server data
17:41 < superjoe> what's the difference?
17:41 < alasi> Bukkit plugin, not player plugin
17:42 < alasi> wait..
17:42 < superjoe> I'm not saying I don't think it will work
17:42 <+sadimusi> superjoe: the camera isn't following the players but a preconfigured path (if I got that correctly yestreday)
17:42 < superjoe> it just seems like a ton of bandwidth
17:42 < superjoe> might be worth making sure it's acceptable
17:43 < alasi> Browser receives the camera buffer packets -> Nodejs makes virtual camera buffer -> Bukkit server plugin sends general packets to node server
17:43 < alasi> Wait wrong order
17:44 <+sadimusi> and why doesn't bukkit do the job nodejs does now?
17:44 < alasi> sadimusi: Because it would use less bandwidth to send to the client
17:44 <+sadimusi> you can cut latency in half, if not more...
17:44 < superjoe> ^
17:44 <+sadimusi> how would it use less bandwith
17:44 <+sadimusi> +?
17:44 < alasi> Because the node server is the virtual camera buffer
17:45 < alasi> It takes the bukkit plugin's world data
17:45 <+sadimusi> make bukkit the virtual camera buffer
17:45 < superjoe> yes
17:45 < alasi> yeah
17:45 < alasi> hm
17:45 < alasi> But then there's not a lot of customizablility for the camera
17:45 < superjoe> yes there is
17:45 < alasi> The idea would be it's controlled over a web interface
17:45 <+sadimusi> sure there is
17:45 < superjoe> java is turing complete
17:46 < superjoe> you can still make a web interface with java
17:46 < superjoe> and voxeljs is a client-side thing right? so you can still use that too
17:46 < alasi> Yeah
17:46 < alasi> hmm
17:47 < alasi> The idea was, I would definitely open source a lot of the stuff, but it would also be a PaaS
17:48 < alasi> Plus, again, much harder for the server owners
17:48 <+sadimusi> you keep mentioning paas, I don't think it fits the task here
17:48 < alasi> ik
17:48 <+sadimusi> what is harder for server owners? installing a bukkit plugin?
17:48 < alasi> Installing nodejs and a bukkit plugin etc
17:48 < alasi> vs just a bukkit plugin
17:48 <+sadimusi> no need for nodejs
17:49 <+sadimusi> just make everything in the plugin
17:49 < alasi> hmm
17:49 < alasi> I hate java tbj
17:49 < alasi> tbh
17:49 <+sadimusi> write it in scala then :P
17:49 < alasi> write it in nodejs then :/
17:50 <+sadimusi> or write it in js and run it with rhino :P
17:50 < alasi> IDK, I have the summer, maybe I'll try a bunch of different approaches
17:51 < alasi> Today maybe I'll fire up eclipse and do something
17:51 < alasi> I'll see how websockets work in java/bukkit
17:53 <+sadimusi> if you're going to do the whole webinterface in java I'd have a look at some frameworks
17:53 <+sadimusi> like play
17:54 <+sadimusi> most of them also support websockets
17:54 < alasi> Is that like apache of some sort
17:54 < alasi> Cause how does the web interface interact with the plugin
17:54 < alasi> Is it stored in a db?
17:55 <+sadimusi> if you run it as a bukkit plugin you have direct access to all server mechanics
17:55 < barneygale> alasi: https://github.com/masteroftime/Python-Plugin-Loader might be up your street?
17:55 < alasi> barneygale: Nah, we're talking about nodejs
17:55 < alasi> Bukkit would be installed as bukkit
17:56 < alasi> Then the rest would be separate
17:56 < barneygale> yeah, I just saw you didn't want to use java
17:56 < alasi> I'll write a bukkit plugin, it's just that I dont want to do EVERYHTING in java
17:56 < dx> there are javascript plugin loaders too
17:56 < alasi> There's no need for a plugin loader
17:57 < alasi> The plugin itself would just be a websocket client
17:57 < alasi> Broadcasting server attributes to a remote service
17:57 < alasi> remote service = nodejs
17:57 <+sadimusi> I don't like java that much, but creating suchg a complex system just because of that is insane
17:58 < alasi> The java plugin's just a client to the mainframe though
17:58 < alasi> mainframe = nodejs xD
17:58 < alasi> So is the web interface
17:59 <+sadimusi> if you insist on using javascript at least use a js plugin loader for bukkit
17:59 < alasi> What's a plugin loader for?
18:00 < alasi> Do you write plugins to interpret to java?
18:00 < dx> http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-plugins/jxpl/
18:00 <+sadimusi> you write your plugin in js and it'll get run as if it were java
18:00 < barneygale> It lets you access the bukkit api from another language. The one I linked uses jython, which compiles python to jvm bytecode. I can't remember how it lets you use the bukkit api
18:00 < barneygale> something clever
18:01 < alasi> m
18:02 < barneygale> you should just write it in java though. people don't like plugins that are complicated to install
18:02 < alasi> Yeah
18:02 < alasi> I should
18:02 < alasi> Especially if it's much more complicated to set up then going to http://minecraftthingy.com, getting an authkey, and putting that in a text file
18:03 < alasi> Then you just manage everything on http://minecraftthingy.com
18:03 < barneygale> you probably could do it the way you're talking, but it's quite ambitious and headache-y. The wrapper I maintain is being split up into >1 process and it's messy getting the protocol sane.
18:03 < alasi> What do you mean, wrapper?
18:04 < barneygale> wraps the minecraft process, i.e. launches it as a child and wraps stdin/stdout/stderr
18:04 < alasi> hm
18:04 < barneygale> not applicable to what you're doing, I only mentioned it for the >1 process comparison
18:05 < alasi> If I download Bukkit Api will I be able to use it as a test server?
18:05 < dx> the bukkit api is... just an api. not the implementation, not the server
18:05 < alasi> oh
18:05 < dx> craftbukkit is the implementation
18:05 < alasi> ok
18:11 < alasi> wtf it's outdated
18:13 < dx> ...did you grab the recommended build and expected it to support 1.6.x, which still has bugs in vanilla?
18:13 < alasi> yes
18:13 < dx> http://dl.bukkit.org/downloads/craftbukkit/
18:13 < alasi> I said outdated server
18:13 < dx> grab latest dev
18:14 < alasi> Oh ok
18:14 < alasi> I will later
18:17 < dx> the bukkit devs take stability so seriously that they didn't promote a recommended build for 1.5.2 until two weeks before 1.6 was released
18:17 <+ammar2> lol
18:21 < dx> (okay maybe that's not the exact reason, but whatever.)
22:38 <+sadimusi> lol http://people.zoy.org/~sam/filsdepute.txt
22:46 <+clonejo> sadimusi: btw, http://hmarco.org/bugs/CVE-2013-4788.html
23:07 <+sadimusi> clonejo: look at the source of the page I linked ;)
23:13 <+clonejo> hahaha
23:24 < dx> hah, nice
23:25 < dx> didn't know -1 was accepted as a "pid"
--- Day changed mer. juil. 17 2013
00:14 < LaxWasHere> Hey, where'd the protocol list go?! :| http://wiki.vg/Pre-release_protocol
00:16 <+sadimusi> what list?
00:17 <+sadimusi> you mean http://wiki.vg/Protocol_History?
00:18 < LaxWasHere> That! :D
00:20 <+pdelvo> its incomplete. there is missing a lot
00:47 < SpaceManiac> :(
01:28 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2069 189 files : Updated all code copyright notices to "2009-2013"
10:09 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-0/±5] http://git.io/-XJ3SA
10:09 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 11516a9 - Protocol cleanup
16:58 <+sadimusi> I'm rewriting mc4p's protocol definitions and could use some opinions
16:58 <+sadimusi> awesome or way too much magic? http://pastie.org/8149356
17:02 < dexter0> wow, you can do that in python?  Context aware constructors?
17:03  * dexter0 does not know python
17:06 <+sadimusi> there's quite a bit of black magic going on
17:07 < iBotPeaches> it looks sexy
17:07 < dexter0> sure does
17:07 <+ammar2> sadimusi: pretty nice, I'd imagine the code to actually handle it is a nightmare though
17:08 <+sadimusi> ammar2: it definitely is
17:08 <+sadimusi> I am trying to imitate sqlalchemy to some extent (http://docs.sqlalchemy.org/en/rel_0_8/orm/extensions/declarative.html)
17:11 <+ammar2> also how are you going to handle special stuff like 0x1D which has a prefix of number of ints, then requires you to read that many ints
17:11 <+ammar2> same for chunk bulk packet where a short specifies how many columns to read
17:11 <+sadimusi> I will probably do it similar to the old system https://github.com/sadimusi/mc4p/blob/master/mc4p/messages.py#L892
17:12 <+sadimusi> some packets probably need custom field types
17:12 <+sadimusi> I hope I can put them into the class definitions as well
17:13 <+sadimusi> oh, you meant 0x1d, not 0xd1
17:13 <+sadimusi> no you probably didn't
17:14 <+ammar2> they're abotu the same
17:15 <+sadimusi> currently 0x1d just has a custom field type, but I'm trying to avoid that as much as possible
17:15 <+sadimusi> probably won't have a choice for stuff like 0x2c though
17:16 <+ammar2> sadimusi: when I'm gonna be overhauling my python protocol implementation, I hope to do something similar but was gonna put in a field type in the form of a python function to handle complex types like that
17:16 <+ammar2> seems like the cleanest solution to me
17:17 <+sadimusi> well, all field types are classes with a write and a read method
17:17 <+sadimusi> currently they're just all defined in one place which doesn't make much sense
17:17 <+sadimusi> and there are way too many of them
17:18 <+ammar2> yeah I was gonna have a file per each protocol that inherits from other protocol files and makes changes to it
17:45 < dav1d> PUSH TIME
17:45 < dav1d> after 3days no internet -.
17:45 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 35 commits to master [+2/-0/±63] http://git.io/qikYZA
17:45 < dav1d> Not-002: pls
17:46 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 607a763 - return blocks from empty chunks
17:46 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 26586fd - fix a few nasty bugs, opengl resources get released again!
17:46 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 7ba2eca - individual loglevel/writer for NamedLogger
17:46 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 2da40f6 - implement logger.log_exception
17:46 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 28a35d5 - fix compilation in utils.log
17:46 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde a11deb7 - fix formatstring
17:46 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 688fbef - fix grass and crafting table
17:46 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde f2b377c - seed prng once
17:46 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde ef29780 - less work for the GC
17:46 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 807808f - fix is_valid_position
17:46 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 150f046 - implement block.name
17:46 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde a9626d0 - implement sliding along edges, instead of preventing movement
17:46 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 97ecdb6 - fix delta_ticks?
17:46 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 0ce3ce9 - revert to old queue, mutex.lock took up to 700ms
17:46 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 1bc0c00 - fix furnace
17:46 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 57124a2 - cleanup queue
17:46 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 7b50c96 - lock already acquired
17:46 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 152f9ac - set default tessellation threads to 1
17:46 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 848ee4a - remove "block cache" in Physics.move
17:46 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde d8e7207 - remove POST_BUILD_CMD from makefile
17:46 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 32cd5cc - cleanup makefile some more
17:46 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 25923ab - replace PATH_SEP with / in makefile (no windows support anyways)
17:46 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde ffb882b - more makefile cleanup/fixes
17:46 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 9cc83d8 - remove _ from utils.thread
17:46 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 62166d4 - remove "tess_out" queue
17:46 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde da4f990 - ThreadedConnection is not threadsafe anylonger
17:46 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 1e65c97 - added lockfree ringbuffer
17:46 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde fc825b6 - use ringbuffer for packets
17:46 < iBotPeaches> :o
17:46 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde d43695b - add RingBuffer memory to GC
17:46 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde c045178 - return default if chunk is empty
17:47 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde b22aa5c - add note to ringbuffer initialization
17:47 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde a5e0951 - less locks = more win! replace queue with lockfree ringbuffer, limited to one tessellation thread
17:47 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde c1838c4 - scope(exit) -> scope(success)
17:47 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde bdf5a13 - lower camera offset .5
17:47 < dexter0> dat commit spam
17:47 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 29b5f9d - add sneak/jump keys to config/player (not implemented)
17:47 < dav1d> what else should you do without internet :(
17:47 < dexter0> consolidate your commits :P
17:48 < dav1d> couldn't even watch one episode of dexter! :(
17:48 < dexter0> what happened?
17:48 < dexter0> storm?
17:48 < dav1d> no
17:48 < dexter0> ISP incompetence?
17:48 < dav1d> plugging in/out the antenna cable solved it
17:48 < dav1d> -.-
17:48 < dav1d> I had to call the support to do this...
17:49 < dav1d> I checked if it was connected (it was) but never unplugged it
17:50 <+clonejo> dav1d: nice job
17:50 < dav1d> clonejo: thanks :>
17:50 <+clonejo> dav1d: but it still fails at linking for me
17:50 < dav1d> only 135 mails, yay
17:51 < dav1d> clonejo: -_-
17:51 < dav1d> really?
17:51 < dav1d> clonejo: what error?
17:51 <+clonejo> dav1d: https://gist.github.com/clonejo/4c03d381e917868097ec
17:51 < dav1d> also, lockfree queue!
17:51 < dav1d> BraLa is now 99% lockfree :>
17:51 < dav1d> strange thing was
17:52 < dav1d> I got random lagspikes, up to 700ms
17:52 < dav1d> and more
17:52 <+clonejo> wait, do I have to install glwf manually?
17:52 < dav1d> tracked it down, it was mutex.lock
17:52 <+clonejo> hehe
17:52 < dav1d> clonejo: glfw or glwtf?
17:52 <+clonejo> glfw
17:52 < dav1d> clonejo: make glfw
17:52 <+clonejo> okay
17:52 < dav1d> clonejo: use the makefile luke :>
17:52 <+clonejo> I did just do make -j9
17:52 < dav1d> but it should work with the build_brala.d too
17:52 < dav1d> clonejo: that should work too
17:52 < dav1d> clonejo: you have the submodules?
17:53 < dav1d> (and linux right?)
17:53 <+clonejo> yup
17:53 <+clonejo> btw glwf is in arch/community (version 3.0.1-2)
17:53 < dav1d> ok, I just cloned a new copy
17:53 < dav1d> I know, but I ship it for a reason with glfw
17:53 < dav1d> wait community :O
17:54 < dav1d> I think I maintained the AUR
17:54 < dav1d> oh nvm, I didn't
17:54 < dav1d> clonejo: fresh git clone works for me
17:54 < Calinou> >maintained >AUR
17:55 <+clonejo> dav1d: https://gist.github.com/clonejo/83b47589d1cf923cbd97
17:55 < dav1d> ohh
17:55 < dav1d> clonejo: you have pkg-config installed?
17:55 < dav1d> (I was aussuming everyone has pkg-config...)
17:56 < dav1d> which pkg-config                                                                                                                                           1 ↵  
17:56 < dav1d> /usr/bin/pkg-config
17:56 <+clonejo> dav1d: now I have it
17:56 < dav1d> interesting :O
17:56 < dav1d> I thought pkg-config is installed everywhere
17:57 <+clonejo> this is arch
17:57 < dav1d> I know
17:57 < dav1d> I have it, my laptop has it
17:57 <+clonejo> :3
17:57 < dav1d> and my laptop has nothing
17:57 < dav1d>  pacman -Q pkg-config                                                                                                                                            
17:57 < dav1d> core/pkg-config 0.28-1 (base-devel)
17:57 < dav1d> ...
17:57 < dav1d> You didn't install base-devel, pfft
17:57 <+clonejo> um, possible
17:57 < dav1d> good old times where arch had a setup...
17:58 <+clonejo> I reinstalled recently
17:58 < dav1d> gcc is in base-devel :O
17:58 <+clonejo> because one day I had the idea of installing / on btrfs
17:58 < dav1d> I really recommend base-devel :>
17:59 < dav1d> good old times, where btrfs was considered a risk for your data
17:59 < dav1d> :>
17:59 < dav1d> xfs and ext3 times
17:59 < dav1d> clonejo: https://www.archlinux.org/groups/x86_64/base-devel/
17:59 < dav1d> you really should get that :>
17:59 <+clonejo> I just did
18:01 <+clonejo> dav1d: Which minecraft version does Brala support?
18:03 < dav1d> clonejo: 1.6.2
18:03 < dav1d> clonejo: 1.6.1+ is required
18:06 <+clonejo> okay
18:06 < dav1d> did I not update the readme?, again
18:06 < dav1d> phew, I did
18:06 < dav1d> clonejo: well 1.6.2 server is even required
18:08 <+clonejo> oh, I overlooked it
18:11 <+clonejo> cool, collision detection
18:12 <+clonejo> also, great camera
18:14 <+clonejo> btw I can safely tab in and out of Brala (but using Mate instead of XFCE)
18:14 < dav1d> clonejo: yeah glfw bug :)
18:14 < dav1d> I redirected your complain to dreda (glfw maintainer)
18:14 < dav1d> glad you like the camera :)
18:15 < dav1d> also collision detection :D
18:15 < dav1d> took me quite some paper to figure that out
18:20 < winny> is there a better tested way to change a server's default spawn than e.g. editing the NBT file with something like this?: http://sprunge.us/GSVN?py
18:20 <+sadimusi> nope
18:23 <+sadimusi> winny: why "better tested"?
18:23 <+sadimusi> nbt editors work perfectly...
18:24 < winny> yes they do, however for people who don't quite understand such simple things, it's another thing to learn
18:25 < winny> server admins* I should write
18:25 <+sadimusi> well, I'm sure there a lot of bukkit plugins which are capable of it
18:26 <+sadimusi> and mcedit might also be a more intuitive method
18:26 < dav1d> there are a few nice tools for editing nbt data
18:26 < dav1d> I like mcplayeredit, well liked,
18:27 < dav1d> nvm, looks kinda dead now :(
19:17 < barneygale> winny: use tktech's nbt lib
19:18 < TkTech> winny: https://github.com/TkTech/PyNBT
19:33 < Jckf> Hum. Why is Bukkit and Canary listed as wrappers on the wiki?
19:51 < SpaceManiac> Jckf: probably because they're mods to Minecraft, not separate software
19:52 < Jckf> Which is exactly the opposite of a wrapper
19:52 < Jckf> Or?
19:53 < SpaceManiac> Everything on the server list is ground-up and doesn't touch Mojang's code at all afaik
19:54 < Jckf> Yeah
20:07 < dav1d> clonejo: btw noticed lags while new chunks load?
20:19 <+clonejo> dav1d: Didn't test that so far
20:19 < dav1d> fun fact! less threads = better performance
20:19 < dav1d> damn locks made lagspikes :(
20:21 <+clonejo> locking properly isn't easy
20:24 < dav1d> clonejo: I locked properly :(
20:27 < TkTech> Clearly the solution is to never lock.
20:28  * TkTech is a titanic fan of coroutines.
20:41 < SpaceManiac> I need to study concurrency some more
20:41 < dav1d> TkTech: right, lockfree ringbuffer!
20:42 < TkTech> <3 CAS. Best instruction ever.
20:43 < SpaceManiac> experimenting with a Python-based alternative to ComputerCraft and I doubt threads are going to scale well
20:48 < dav1d> TkTech: not a single cas :O
20:48 < TkTech> dav1d: Wut?
20:48 < dav1d> (tbh I didn't implement it, I always wanted to, but I got a lockfree implementation!)
20:48 < TkTech> dav1d: CAS = Compare And Swap
20:48 < dav1d> TkTech: I know
20:48 < dav1d> TkTech: https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/src/d/minilib/core/ringbuffer.d
20:49 < dav1d> well single writer/reader
20:58 < Brott> dav1d: You free? :)
20:58 < dav1d> Brott: kinda?
20:58 < Brott> octc? :p
20:58 < dav1d> oh
20:58 < dav1d> sure
20:58 < Brott> me dino and another guy thats also german
20:58 < dav1d> kk, I come on mumble, sec
21:06 < Brott> You gonna stay in away cahnnel? xD
22:34 <+md_5> dav1d multiple writer + multiple consumer ring buffer please
22:34 <+md_5> http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/lock-free-multi-producer-multi-consumer-queue-ring-buffer
22:34 < AlphaBlend> WAT
22:36 <+md_5> k
22:39 <+pdelvo> In .net we have this already: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd267265.aspx
22:45 <+md_5> pdelvo those generic queues generally have bad foorprint/performance
22:46 <+pdelvo> why does generic matter? its a compile time thing
23:49 < PlayerWithoutNam> hi
23:49 <+sadimusi> o/
23:51 < PlayerWithoutNam> what happened to "Updating 1.6" section?
23:51 <+sadimusi> it was moved to the correct page
23:51 <+sadimusi> http://wiki.vg/Game_Files
23:51 < PlayerWithoutNam> ok, thanks
--- Day changed jeu. juil. 18 2013
00:20 < PlayerWithoutNam> will that command run 1.6 properly: "java -XX:MaxPermSize=128M -Xms512M -Xmx1024M -cp ".minecraft/bin/minecraft.jar;.minecraft/bin/jinput.jar;.minecraft/bin/lwjgl.jar;.minecraft/bin/lwjgl_util.jar" -Djava.library.path=.minecraft/bin/natives net.minecraft.client.Minecraft nickname sessionID" ?
00:21 <+sadimusi> just try it and you will know
00:21 <+pdelvo> why dont you just try it?
00:41 < dav1d> PlayerWithoutNam: I don't think so
00:41 < PlayerWithoutNam> i found that: "minecraftArguments": "--username ${auth_player_name} --session ${auth_session} --version ${version_name} --gameDir ${game_directory} --assetsDir ${game_assets}"
00:41 < dav1d> PlayerWithoutNam: look into .minecraft/versions/1.6.2/1.6.2.json
00:42 < PlayerWithoutNam> :D
00:42 < dav1d> right
00:42 < PlayerWithoutNam> double or single -?
00:42 < dav1d> double
00:42 < dav1d> you can use the launcher, it prints the exact command how it launches minecraft
00:42 < dav1d> (official 1.6 launcher)
00:43 < PlayerWithoutNam> --session token:accesToken:selectedProfile?
00:43 < dav1d> yes
00:44 < dav1d> just compare the command the 1.6 launcher uses with the launcher_profiles.json if you're not sure
00:44 < dav1d> you will immediatly see how it works
00:44 < dav1d> my code
00:44 < dav1d> return "token:%s:%s".format(authentication["accessToken"], authentication["uuid"]);
00:45 < dav1d> accessToken and uuid
00:45 < dav1d> ^ in the launcher_profiles
00:45 < PlayerWithoutNam> good that they used gameDir, no messing with changing APPDATA variable
--- Log closed jeu. juil. 18 01:10:36 2013
--- Log opened jeu. juil. 18 01:16:53 2013
01:16 -!- Irssi: #mcdevs: Total of 116 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 11 voices, 104 normal]
01:18 -!- Irssi: Join to #mcdevs was synced in 100 secs
01:30 < PlayerWithoutNam> any idea about redirecting streams from minecraft process to System.out? i can get from minecraft process error and input stream
01:31 <+sadimusi> in java?
01:31 < PlayerWithoutNam> yup
01:32 <+sadimusi> https://github.com/SimpleServer/SimpleServer/blob/master/src/simpleserver/minecraft/MinecraftWrapper.java#L157
01:32 < PlayerWithoutNam> btw, System.out is already redirected to JTextArea, but that shouldn't cause difficulties
01:34 <+sadimusi> just make a thread read from runtime.getInputStream() and print it out
01:36 < PlayerWithoutNam> is there any way to detect is minecraft still running?
01:37 <+sadimusi> you can use waitFor()
01:38 <+sadimusi> or call exitValue
01:38 <+sadimusi> iirc it throws some kind of exception if the process is still running
01:39 < PlayerWithoutNam> nvm, used p.getInputStream().available()
01:44 < PlayerWithoutNam> cannot use waitFor because i need to print output in the same time :P
01:45 < PlayerWithoutNam> wouldn't waitFor stop the launcher?
01:46 <+sadimusi> do it in a separate thread
02:16 < dav1d> threads all over the place!
02:17 <+sadimusi> it doesn't really matter on the client
02:57 <+sadimusi> finally completed my protocol definition and I managed to do it without any extra ugly types: https://gist.github.com/sadimusi/6025899
02:57 <+sadimusi> only thing I still need to do is replace the dict literalls with OrderedDict
02:59 <+sadimusi> and then actually write all those field types :)
06:08 < gyroninja> What packet is sent when a player blocks.
06:08 < gyroninja> *?
06:15 < gyroninja> Hello?
06:19 < Squiffy> Can anyone help me figure out whats wrong with my packet?
06:22 < Squiffy> The handshake packet to be specific
06:22 <+sadimusi> maybe
06:23 <+sadimusi> how does it look?
06:23 < Squiffy> Well, I got it to send packed 0x02, wait for 0xfd, then send 0xcd
06:24 < Squiffy> but some usernames wont work
06:24 < Squiffy> just a sec
06:24 < Squiffy> I'll get you my packet
06:26 <+sadimusi> you are sending 0xcd right after you receive 0xfd?
06:26 <+sadimusi> that won't work
06:27 < Squiffy> Well, I won't even get a 0xfd with some nicks
06:27 < Squiffy> for example
06:27 < Squiffy> username*
06:27 < Squiffy> this is a working 0x02 packet is for "Squiffypwn" 024a000a005300710075006900660066007900700077006e000c003100390032002e003100360038002e0030002e00320034000063dd
06:28 < Squiffy> for "Squiffypwn"*
06:28 < Squiffy> This one for just "Squiffy" doesn't work
06:28 < Squiffy> 024a000a0053007100750069006600660079000c003100390032002e003100360038002e0030002e00320034000063dd
06:28 <+sadimusi> the length of the username is wrong in the second example
06:29 <+sadimusi> it's still 0x0a (=10) but should be 7
06:29 < Squiffy> Theres a length field?
06:29 < Squiffy> Oh damn. I didn't know that existed
06:29 < Drainedsoul> strings are length-prefixed.  Number of UCS-2 code units (as a signed big-endian 16-bit integer) followed by the big-endian UCS-2 code units making up the string.
06:29 < Squiffy> oh
06:30 <+sadimusi> the data types are all descriped in the wiki http://wiki.vg/Data_Types
06:30 < Squiffy> And what was that about the 0xcd packet? I'm not supposed to send 0xcd after 0xfd?
06:32 < gyroninja> What packet is sent when a player blocks?
06:35 < gyroninja> with their sword
06:36 <+sadimusi> gyroninja: probably 0x12
06:36 <+sadimusi> Squiffy: you need to set up encryption first
06:37 < Squiffy> Oh. I thought that was optional
06:37 <+sadimusi> for the server, yes
06:37 <+sadimusi> obviously not for the client
06:42 < gyroninja> hmmm, Don't want to brute force finding the right packet data for blocking.
06:42 < gyroninja> Protocol Lib is kind of broken in giving me the information, as of minecraft changes (Crashes the client).
06:56 < Squiffy> Thank you sadimusi and Drainedsoul
06:56 < Squiffy> I very much appreciate it
13:35 < dav1d> I somehow feel like messing with this Yggsdrasil stuff
13:35 < dav1d> where does this name come from?
13:35 < SinZ> the tree im assuming
13:37 < dav1d> for a login-session api?
13:37 < dav1d> meh
13:45 < ellisvlad> Hi :)
14:03 < eddyb> dav1d: it's supposed to work under the load of 7 times 7 billion players
14:04 < dav1d> LOL
14:04 < dav1d> eddyb: good one
14:04 < eddyb> or 9 times 7, depending on your sources
15:04 < dav1d> xD
15:04 < dav1d> brala.exception.YggdrasilException@brala/minecraft/yggdrasil.d(143): Invalid salt version
15:04 < dav1d> got a new one!
15:05 < dav1d> ah IllegalArgumentException :(
15:08 < dav1d> interesting
15:08 < dav1d> that's coming from Javas bcrypt
15:09 < dav1d> do I need to bcrypt "encode" the password I send over to the api?
15:14 < dav1d> yay it works
15:31 < PlayerWithoutNam> hi
15:40 < iBotPeaches> hi
15:43 < dav1d> TkTech: notifico died :P
15:55 < dav1d> Grum: I have an idea for your unicode/text rendering issues, signed distance fields http://www.valvesoftware.com/publications/2007/SIGGRAPH2007_AlphaTestedMagnification.pdf
15:56 < dav1d> Grum: a friend told me a few days ago of it, I read up on it a bit and sounds like a great solution, you can generate these easily from fonts once, then map your unicode onto the bitmaps 
15:57 < dav1d> you have scaleable fonts on low cost with neat effects for free
16:04 < Grum> that wont solve the real problem though
16:05 < Grum> the only way to draw properly is using ttf :/
16:06 < dav1d> Grum: why?
16:06 < Grum> dav1d: had seen it before (and bookmarked it even :D)
16:06 < Grum> dav1d: because java has no way of obtaining the correct information to draw certain glyphs unless you use ttf
16:06 < dav1d> Grum: you generate the whole range the font supports (offline), then map unicode characters (code points) on these bitmaps and load them when you actually need it
16:07 < Grum> and then said information only works for the ttf used
16:07 < Grum> wont do it
16:07 < dav1d> Grum: you could generate the sdf offline with dunno, C++, whatever
16:07 < Grum> sdf?
16:07 < dav1d> signed distance field
16:07 < dav1d> Grum: using signed distance field, realtime doesn't work
16:07 < Grum> its not that hard to calculate
16:07 < dav1d> it would be too slow
16:07 < Grum> i mean its just a radial blur
16:08 < dav1d> yeah, but I don't understand your problem then
16:08 < Grum> i understand :)
16:08 < Grum> the problem is that with 'glyphs in a file' you cannot render arabic properly for example
16:08 < dav1d> generate them offline (is this the problem?) then, map 256 characters onto one texture (sorted) so you can easily look it up with the unicode codepoint
16:09 < Grum> anything cursive script, digraphs are simply not possible that way
16:09 < Grum> languages that require 'shaping' basically
16:10 < dav1d> Grum: oh, is this a special unicode "instruction"?
16:10 < Grum> no, that is how the language works
16:10 < Grum> for example for arabic, each letter has multiple representations
16:10 < Grum> depending on if its: start, middle, end, or standalone
16:10 < Grum> however the character given is 'standalone'
16:10 < dav1d> Grum: but if the font you use defines them, it will endup in the bitmap?
16:11 < Grum> which is why arabic currently reads a s i f i t i s w r i t t e n l i k e t h i s
16:11 < dav1d> everything else is a matter of translating the unicode codepoint to the right bitmap/position?
16:11 < Grum> yes except that the bitmaps shifts and merge
16:11 < dav1d> I see
16:11 < dav1d> I didn't think it was that hard :/
16:12 < Grum> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/23/Arabic_components_%28letters%29_in_the_word_Allah.svg/240px-Arabic_components_%28letters%29_in_the_word_Allah.svg.png
16:12 < dav1d> well, you could do this with a shader, I guess
16:12 < Grum> that is 7 different characters you have to render
16:12 < Grum> there is no way to obtain information about the locations of 2, 5, 6 without using TTF and its glyph-positioning-code
16:13 < Grum> i've searched all over the place, i cannot find anything that does it
16:13 < Grum> there are some that do digraph replacements
16:13 < Grum> nothing does 'shaping' however
16:13 < Grum> and then you have the image above, i do not even know what it is called :p
16:14 < dav1d> Grum: but a different unicode codepoint exists for every character, so you could generate these characters offline as well?
16:14 < dav1d> hehe
16:14 < Grum> also because that word is that common and imporatnt they actually made a glyph to represent it
16:14 < Grum> dav1d: the bounding boxes matter greatly
16:14 < Grum> and they shift depending on the context
16:14 < dav1d> Grum: yes but that should be rather easy to obtain, I guess?
16:14 < Grum> '6' can be 'one lower' too
16:15 < Grum> not without ttf
16:15 < Grum> it only calculates it based on ttf fonts and then you might as well use ttf to render... i mean ... why make it hard for yourself ;P
16:15 < dav1d> Grum: why is ttf bad, if it is done once, offline?
16:15 < Grum> because we *NEED* the ttf to get the calculation done
16:16 < dav1d> Grum: yes of course, but you can ship the tool with minecraft "java convert.java input.ttf"
16:16 < Grum> what?
16:16 < dav1d> or is your problem you don't have a ttf for the current minecraft font?
16:17 < Grum> i already made that
16:17 < Grum> downside is that its 13mb ;)
16:17 < dav1d> Grum: well then all you need is a tool which generates the correct sdf from a .ttf and a renderer which uses it
16:17 < Grum> and we need one for unicode ... and one for 'non-unicode'
16:17 < dav1d> Grum: the tool can be distributed for resourcepack makers
16:18 < Grum> dav1d: yes, and then we have to ship 26mb of ttf *AND* all the distancefields
16:18 < dav1d> Grum: no need to ship the ttf
16:18 < Grum> then you are still not getting it
16:18 < Grum> there is no way to obtain positioning for glyphs within context WITHOUT the ttf
16:18 < Grum> (or for shaping, even know what glyphs have to be used)
16:19 < dav1d> Grum: you generate these "special" characters (I'll call them special for now, characters which are composed of multiple) offline, all you probably additionally need is a metadata file for width/height of the sdf
16:19 < Grum> you cannot generate them
16:20 < Grum> look at the image i linked
16:20 < dav1d> yes
16:20 < Grum> the '6' -- that part of the glyph can be at multiple levels
16:20 < Grum> it can even be one more up iirc
16:20 < Grum> there is no way to know this without the proper context, this proper context cannot be obtained (as far as i've researched sofar) without actually using the ttf-render-engine in java's awt
16:20 < dav1d> ok, but a different unicode codepoint exists for every variation of the "6"?
16:20 < Grum> no
16:20 < dav1d> ahh
16:20 < dav1d> I see
16:20 < Grum> its one codepoint at a certain offset
16:21 < Grum> like kerning but then up/down
16:21 < dav1d> so it depends on the context, well yeah, that's a problem then
16:23 < dav1d> looks like Harfbuzz is widely used for that http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/HarfBuzz/
16:23 < Grum> the only thing that works is Font.layoutGlyphVector
16:23 < Grum> dav1d: yes nothing java
16:23 < dav1d> yeah
16:25 < Grum> mmm
16:25 < Grum> http://behdad.org/text/ claims that ICU has a javaport and does shaping
16:25 < Grum> however i looked at it before, and i actually couldn't find what shaping methods it had O.o
16:27 < Grum> http://icu-project.org/apiref/icu4j/com/ibm/icu/text/ArabicShaping.html <-- it only has it for arabic, iirc more languages need it
16:30 < Grum> mmmm
16:30 < Grum> maybe they can all be handled by the arabic one assuming they have the right data
16:31 < Grum> dav1d: http://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/2d/text/textlayoutconcepts.html#shaping_text <-- the actual issue btw
16:32 < dav1d> I was always under the assumption it doesn't depend on the context
16:32 < dav1d> I guess, I was wrong
16:32 < Grum> yeah i had to learn from this too haha
16:32 < Grum> and its a pain in the ass to find the correct terminology to find the little bit of information available online
16:32 < dav1d> that makes it incredibly complex
16:32 < Grum> yes! however this ArabicShaping will do what i need
16:32 < Grum> it will transform the codepoints
16:33 < Grum> i'm not sure how it handles the 'weird stuff'
16:33 < Grum> maybe it indeed has those merged-codepoint for certain chars
16:33 < Grum> or maybe some chars simply do not advance the cursor
16:33 < Grum> dav1d: the next problem is, bidi & shaping; there are bidi-resolvers -- but i have no idea how to use both at the same time
16:34 < dav1d> Grum: haha wow, I never heared of bidi before
16:34 < Grum> bidi = bidirectional
16:34 < dav1d> I honestly think there is so much to it
16:34 < dav1d> oh derp
16:34 < Grum> the real problem is that bidirectionality again is hard to do
16:34 < Grum> especially if you want to do the cursor stuff right ;)
16:35 < Grum> and allow for inline-direction changes (you ahve two unicode chars for that)
16:35 < Grum> so you can TSUJ be typing
16:35 < Grum> and then the whole layout in the end obviously depends on what your starting-state is; for R2L languages you start 'inverted' -- oh also it changes shaping a bit :p
16:36 < Grum> dav1d: go find me an example that uses shaping =)
16:37 < Grum> http://grepcode.com/file/repository.grepcode.com/java/eclipse.org/3.6/com.ibm/icu/4.2.1/com/ibm/icu/text/ArabicShaping.java#169 <-- i found the class in eclipse code, i assume they somehow use it :p
16:37 < dav1d> wow
16:38 < dav1d> sounds like you invested a lot of time doing it right
16:38 < Grum> i want to do it right, i'm not nearly done, i havent actually implemente dit
16:38 < Grum> i just know i *can* do it using ttf
16:38 < Grum> also using ttf would give quite some other benefits
16:38 < Grum> people can get rid of the horrid current unicode font
16:39 < Grum> which is btw: http://unifoundry.com/
16:39 < ellisvlad> :D Don;t you love when you code something for ages and don't test it until you are done, then it works flawlessly :D
16:39 < dav1d> Grum: what is the downside of ttf then?
16:40 < Grum> dav1d: the runtime rendering of glyphs
16:40 < dav1d> Grum: yeah well, everything else is getting really impractically in my head, since it depends on the context
16:41 < ShaRose> could split text up into sentences, render with TTF to a texture or something, then render that
16:41 < ShaRose> so that way it only does TTF render once
16:41 < Grum> problem is that we need proper linebreak calculation as well
16:41 < Grum> which you can only do if you know glyph sizes
16:41 < ShaRose> minecraft doesn't resize text very often
16:41 < ShaRose> read: ever
16:41 < Grum> yeah that is why we might get away using ttf
16:41 < ShaRose> when it resizes, it can be recalculated
16:41 < Grum> not really
16:42 < Grum> each glyph has to be put on a texture atlas
16:42 < Grum> dynamically
16:42 < dav1d> yeah caching...
16:42 < Grum> not as much caching, it has to be rasterized + uploaded to the gpu
16:42 < Grum> i mean, we can do it obviously, but it gets painful fast :)
16:43 < Grum> also the only thing i really need to do is writing this glyphatlas/rasterization code
16:43 < Grum> the rest is relatively easy though cumbersome
16:43 < dav1d> Grum: texture atlas, but that won't work? since it depends on the context, you have to process it anyways, so you could only cache the whole "context" at once
16:43 < Grum> dav1d: the offset will be decided but the texture is identical
16:44 < dav1d> mh
16:44 < Grum> so you just render the 'final codepoints' to a texture and then position it where the layout vector tells you
16:44 < Grum> but again in order to get the layout vector you need the ttf :p
16:45 < Grum> how high-res must the distance=field texture be btw?
16:45 < dav1d> Grum: pretty low res
16:45 < dav1d> sec
16:45 < Grum> https://code.google.com/p/libgdx/wiki/DistanceFieldFonts
16:47 < Grum> https://github.com/libgdx/libgdx/blob/master/extensions/gdx-tools/src/com/badlogic/gdx/tools/distancefield/DistanceFieldGenerator.java <-- doesn't seem to be that expensive? :/
16:48 < dav1d> Grum: he "calculated" (the guy developing octaforge engine, where I got this idea from) that you could put ~300 characters in a 512x512 texture
16:48 < Grum> atlas filling is the thing i worry the least about
16:48 < Grum> but it has to be on the fly
16:48 < dav1d> so what was your question?
16:49 < Grum> i wonder what resolution the final glyph has to be
16:49 < Grum> i mean, if you render a 12em font
16:49 < Grum> does it become ....12+ how many pixels high?
16:49 < dav1d> you have to generate these offline, to get good results you should generate the distance field in a at least 8-times higher resolution and then scale it down
16:49 < Grum> which make no sense, why scale it down
16:50 < Grum> oh hell, i see why it is that expensive
16:50 < Grum> https://github.com/libgdx/libgdx/blob/master/extensions/gdx-tools/src/com/badlogic/gdx/tools/distancefield/DistanceFieldGenerator.java#L181
16:50 < Grum> for every pixel you need to find the 'closest inside pixel'
16:51 < dav1d> q66you rasterize at 8 times larger size than you need, generate distance field and downscale to the final size
16:51 < dav1d> q66otherwise it'll look jagged
16:51 < dav1d> Grum: he played around with it and showed me the differences
16:51 < Grum> q66huh? ;)
16:52 < dav1d> Grum: \t should be there c&p lost it
16:52 < Grum> also doing distancefields without having shaders is extra painful
16:53 < dav1d> Grum: why don't you drop 1.X support?
16:53 < dav1d> basically everyone has 2+
16:53 < Grum> except 7% of the people
16:53 < dav1d> omg
16:53 < dav1d> really?
16:53 < dav1d> based on snooping?
16:53 < Grum> insta-rage of 770k people; yeah
16:53 < dav1d> wow
16:54 < Grum> we'll do it eventually, not now
16:54 < dav1d> I never thought 7% of all minecraft players
16:54 < dav1d> I mean minecraft itself needs quite a bit of vram
16:54 < Grum> not really
16:54 < dav1d> (if you don't play on super-tiny)
16:54 < Grum> its not 'that' much
16:54 < Grum> 256mb can play it iirc
16:54 < Grum> dont use a high-res pack though ;)
16:54 < dav1d> Grum: I am not very economical with my vram but BraLa needs 500+mb
16:55 < Grum> we could give it a good guess
16:55 < dav1d> (10 chunks renderdistance)
16:55 < Grum> 19*19*16 chunks
16:55 < Grum> (of 16*3)
16:56 < dav1d> ok, I test in a jungle
16:56 < Grum> each has 17*3 vertices at worst case
16:56 < Grum> err ^3
16:56 < dav1d> worst case is everything leaves
16:56 < dav1d> (actually stairs)
16:56 < dav1d> 6*8 vertices per block?
16:57 < Grum> euuh that seems too much?
16:57 < dav1d> Grum: oh you use GL_QUADS?
16:57 < dav1d> nvm, I suck at math
16:57 < dav1d> a cube haas 6 not 8 sides
16:57 < Grum> wouldnt you need 6*6 vertices to render a cube?
16:57 < dav1d> each cube consists of 6 vertices
16:58 < dav1d> Grum: right
16:58 < Grum> and of those there are only 8 unique vertices
16:58 < dav1d> 36*40byte (40byte is my vertex size)
16:58 < Grum> * 19*19*256*16*16 :p
16:58 < dav1d> Grum: depending on your GL_QUAD/TRIANGLES(_STRIP) you have to pass all of these
16:59 < dav1d> and I am using GL_TRIANGLES without an indices buffer (complicates things, imo)
16:59 < Grum> that seems a bit much ;)
16:59 < Grum> anyhow, over 80% of the world is empty
16:59 < dav1d> haha yeah, try to generate a superflat with 200 layers of leaves on a 10 chunks renderdistance :)
17:00 < Grum> hehe i'm afraid now ;)
17:00 < dav1d> vram swapped into ram (I have 8GiB) which almost began to fill my swap
17:00 < Grum> my math went of the scale O.o
17:00 < dav1d> but I had extremly good performance
17:00 < dav1d> like 10 fps
17:00 < dav1d> never expected that
17:00 < Grum> beats spf
17:01 < dav1d> ^ unicode joke?
17:01 < Grum> should have used instancing!~
17:01 < Grum> (seconds per frame ;D)
17:01 < dav1d> oh :>
17:01 < dav1d> indexbuffers don't have a huge benefit in normally generated minecraft worlds
17:01 < Grum> they do
17:01 < dav1d> often only two or one face are visible
17:02 < Grum> however within a chunk section there are TONS of identical vertices
17:02 < dav1d> of course you save a bit vram, doesn't speed up the rendering a lot (at leaast shouldn't) but complicates your code 
17:02 < Grum> also, if you use index-buffers you have way less 'pixel shining through my stupid world'
17:03 < Grum> dav1d: perhaps true
17:03 < Grum> it is almost tempting to just upload all the vertices and just have a very limited indexbuffer :P
17:03 < Grum> that way the indices are always on 'known places' :P
17:03 < dav1d> I am glad I didn't go that route, implementing these blocks with index buffers would have been quite some more work
17:04 < dav1d> maybe it's enough to do it per face
17:04 < dav1d> that wouldn't be a huge act to implement
17:05 < Grum> anyhow, i still need to fix font rendering somehow
17:05 < Grum> not sure how to do it properly
17:05 < Grum> easiest is with a fixed-size-glyph atlas
17:06 < Grum> but not sure how to easily handle 'different fontsizes'
17:06 < dav1d> ^ probably my soloution
17:06 < Grum> on the other hand, its mc, ugle-pixelated-scaler ftw
17:06 < Grum> *ugly
17:06 < Grum> another thing i have no idea about is how big i need to even make the glyph-images to fit for example a 12pixel font =)
17:07 < dav1d> or you limit minecraft to ASCII :>
17:07 < Grum> also, sofar it seems that java has no 'fallback' fonts support that you can set programetically :(
17:07 < Grum> the normal ascii range is just 9kb of font :)
17:07 < Grum> but because you might get the odd 'non-ascii' char; you need to merge that with the unicode table, making it a whopping 13mb
17:08 < dav1d> is proper unicode something highly requested?
17:08 < Calinou> >whopping
17:08 < Grum> oh twice obviously O.o
17:08 < Grum> dav1d: yes
17:08 < Calinou> dav1d: there already is?
17:08 < Calinou> you can input a lot of chars already
17:08 < Calinou> Grum: also, FFS, PLEASE make french not use unicode chars.
17:08 < Grum> Calinou: impossible
17:08 < dav1d> Calinou: pls
17:08 < Calinou> why?
17:08 < Calinou> spanish does that
17:08 < Calinou> ç, é, à, and that are all in standard non-unicode chars
17:08 < Grum> they are on the wrong positions
17:08 < dav1d> isn't french part of latin-1
17:08 < Grum> when we start using ttf they cannto be there
17:09 < Grum> yes french is, the translations however use unicode codepoints
17:09 < Calinou> spanish doesn't, why
17:09 < Grum> anything >128 == unicode iirc
17:09 < dav1d> (I could never play minecraft in a different language than english)
17:09 < Grum> erm >256
17:09 < Grum> dav1d: me neither; allergic to that
17:09 < dav1d> I tried it once in german, it was horrible
17:09 < barneygale> What's the issue with using unicode over latin-1?
17:09 < Calinou> I play it in english because unicode font sucks
17:09 < barneygale> also what's wrong with the existing unicode setup?
17:10 < Grum> Calinou: then fix the unicode font!
17:10 < dav1d> :D
17:10 < barneygale> oh right, it's a whole different style
17:10 < Grum> yup
17:10 < Grum> Calinou: or the translations
17:10 < Grum> you can do both!
17:11 < Grum> anyhow, sofar i just did the 'glyphs that match position' for the ascii font
17:11 < Calinou> how would one fix the translations?
17:11 < Grum> which is more than good enough
17:11 < Grum> Calinou: resourcepack?
17:11 < dav1d> maybe libharfbuzz is not that bad of an option (not java ofc) 2,8M libharfbuzz.so.0.919.0
17:11 < Grum> dav1d: yeah ... not java ;)
17:12 < dav1d> Grum: SWIG!
17:12 < dav1d> (jk)
17:12 < Grum> anyhow there are quite some downsides ;(
17:12 < Grum> to whatever we do
17:12 < Grum> right now the rendering is fucked up
17:13 < Grum> with ttf we need to ship 26mb of fonts
17:13 < Grum> so le meh!
17:13 < Grum> 26mb is like half of our assetssize >.>
17:13 < dav1d> Grum: you always need to?
17:14 < Grum> ?
17:14 < dav1d> Grum: well of course you can use the systemfont?
17:14 < Grum> yeaaah no
17:14 < Grum> that would enrage so many people
17:14 < dav1d> Grum: let's say you can offline generate it, this will also end up as at least 10+MB
17:14 < Grum> yeah
17:14 < dav1d> (10MB guess)
17:14 < Grum> shouldnt be that big
17:15 < Grum> its greyscale
17:15 < Grum> so byte per pixel
17:15 < dav1d> and I personally think +26MB isn't that big of a deal
17:15 < Grum> seems we need 32x32 glyphs
17:15 < dav1d> L4D2 takes up 12GB
17:15 < Grum> if we could do font-fallback ....
17:15 < dav1d> vs. max 100MB minecraft
17:15 < barneygale> obviously there's compression and whatnot too
17:15 < Grum> ttf compresses like dick
17:16 < dav1d> ^ not a problem, who doesn't download 30MB in < 5 Minutes?
17:16 <+ammar2> dicks compress pretty well man
17:16 < Grum> dav1d: oh yeah its not that much of an issue
17:16 < dav1d> ammar2: not in the morning
17:16 < Grum> but it would be 9kb+13mb if we had fallback support
17:16 < Grum> which we *could* have
17:17 < Grum> but only if we ship an embedded JRE
17:17 < dav1d> Grum: fallback would be the original minecraft ttf?
17:17 < Grum> because the nwe can put the files in the right place >.>
17:17 < dav1d> oh
17:17 < dav1d> java.awt?
17:17 < Grum> dav1d: no, that would be the 'ascii ttf' over 'the unicode ttf'
17:17 < dav1d> ah
17:17 < Grum> the ascii-ttf is 9kb
17:17 < Grum> with just the ascii-chars that mapped properly onto the unicode ones
17:18 < Grum> the unicode one is 13mb :/
17:18 < dav1d> funny how 50% of the world can live with ~15kb of fonts and the other half needs 28MB :>
17:18 < Grum> yeah >.>
17:21 < dav1d> TIL fuck unicode
17:21 < Grum> ooh not too bad
17:21 < Grum> -rw-r--r--   1 erikbroes  staff  104644311 Jun 27 19:56 unifont-5.1.20080907.simplified.sfd
17:21 < Grum> -rw-r--r--   1 erikbroes  staff    2191896 Jun 27 19:58 unifont-5.1.20080907.simplified.ttf.bz2
17:22 < Grum> oh wait
17:22 < Grum> nevermind; wrong one >.>
17:22 < Grum> -rw-r--r--   1 erikbroes  staff   13543988 Jun 27 19:58 unifont-5.1.20080907.simplified.ttf
17:22 < Grum> hmm not too horrid; we can ship it as a library =)
17:22 < Grum> and have our launcher unpack it =)
17:24 < dav1d> man I really thought it would be fun and relativly easy to implement with SFDs
17:24 < dav1d> and all the horrible code would be hidden in freetype
17:27 < Grum> well awt has all the code inside itself :p
17:57 < Thinkofdeath> Just updated and cleaned up the http://wiki.vg/Entities page. I still need to readd some of details from the old page
19:17 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2070 2 files : Finally converting /Gen command to use the new MapGeneration infrastructure. Also offloaded generation from the player thread to a background scheduler task, while I was at it.
20:57 < GingerGeek> I has a problem
20:57 < GingerGeek> A program I am using called McSignOnDoor
20:58 < GingerGeek> needs to be updated with latest protocol
20:58 < GingerGeek> in the properties file it is has several option
20:59 < GingerGeek> handlers.2.protocols.min
20:59 < GingerGeek> handlers.2.protocols.max
20:59 < GingerGeek> handlers.2.hanshake
20:59 < GingerGeek> *handlers.2.handshake
20:59 < GingerGeek> handlers.2.disconnect
20:59 < GingerGeek> handlers.2.motd
20:59 < GingerGeek> handlers.2.encryption
21:00 < GingerGeek> What should they be set to?
21:00 < GingerGeek> handshake disconnect motd and encrypt are 0 or 1
21:00 < GingerGeek> but the protocls I am stuck on
21:00 < iBotPeaches> GingerGeek: http://wiki.vg/Protocol
21:01 < GingerGeek> Ive looked
21:01 < GingerGeek> Ive been directed to the Handshake
21:01 < GingerGeek> but it says protocl version 3
21:01 < GingerGeek> and then *73
21:01 < GingerGeek> but no min and max
21:02 < umby24> what does this program do?
21:02 < GingerGeek> It idles
21:02 < GingerGeek> and on connect shuts down
21:02 < GingerGeek> by a minecraft client
21:03 < GingerGeek> but the protocol isn't right so I can't double click
21:04 < iBotPeaches> GingerGeek: then update it, all the information is on the wiki
21:04 < iBotPeaches> https://github.com/tustin2121/MCSignOnDoor/blob/master/src/org/digiplex/mcsod/MCSignOnDoor.java
21:04 < iBotPeaches> looks pretty easy
21:05 < GingerGeek> Its not my plugin
21:05 < iBotPeaches> then again, the messaging format changed, probably not an easy change
21:05 < GingerGeek> I just wanna make it work
21:06 < iBotPeaches> hope you know java then
21:06 < GingerGeek> I do
21:06 < iBotPeaches> well I linked the wiki and the repo (both of which I googled)
21:06 < GingerGeek> Yes I know where it is stored
21:06 < GingerGeek> but the point is
21:06 < GingerGeek> the plugin has the facility to change the protocl number it uses
21:06 < GingerGeek> wait
21:07 < GingerGeek> If you look at the Bukkit Forum thread
21:07 < GingerGeek> an FAQ is how to change the protocol
21:07 < iBotPeaches> good, follow it. 
21:08 < GingerGeek> no
21:08 < GingerGeek> but
21:08 < GingerGeek> ah sigh
21:08 < iBotPeaches> It says *exactly* what to do. Update the manifest file and the file I linked above
21:08 < iBotPeaches> You know the current protocol via the wiki
21:08 < GingerGeek> omg I am so stupid
21:09 < iBotPeaches> which is 74
21:09 < GingerGeek> Thank you so much
21:09 < GingerGeek> SO I have to download the git
21:09 < GingerGeek> and then compile it
21:09 < GingerGeek> god I am dense sometimes
21:09 < iBotPeaches> that is usually the build process
21:10  * GingerGeek launches eclipse
21:10 < iBotPeaches> but just to warn you. I believe you will have to change more than those 2 vars.
21:11 < GingerGeek> another silly question
21:11 < GingerGeek> Im new to eclipse
21:11 < GingerGeek> Do I set the workspace to the src folder
21:11 < GingerGeek> or the folder above src
21:15 < GingerGeek> dm
21:15 < GingerGeek> I imported it from git
21:16 < GingerGeek> so the speicfication version of the protocol is 74
21:25 < GingerGeek> Fixed it
21:25 < GingerGeek> it was trying protocol 60
21:25 < GingerGeek> so I replaced all mentions of 60 with 74
23:20 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2071 13 files : Minor ReSharper-aided code cleanup.
--- Day changed ven. juil. 19 2013
03:49 < dx> hey guys, is proxy based virtual hosting for non-bungee related use cases a bad idea?
03:50 < dx> i mean, i don't have anything to proxy at all.
03:50 <+sadimusi> it's certainly unnecessary, but I wouldn't call it bad
03:52 < dx> i've been using SRV records for a while, and my users often report that they fail to connect to the server (the A record for the same address points to somewhere else) unless they use the IP address:port combination they've been sharing secretly
03:52 < dx> "secretly" for who knows what reason, but they didn't tell me until now that SRV was failing, they just workarounded it like that
03:53 <+sadimusi> now that you mention it, a few people had trouble connecting to my server as well
03:53 < dx> so yeah, i'm considering using a proxy instead of this mess
03:53 <+sadimusi> how big is your server?
03:53 < dx> lately... peak players 2
03:53 < dx> the other server peak players 0
03:54 <+sadimusi> I guess performance won't be a problem then :D
03:54 < dx> :D
03:54 < dx> the vanilla server is really really dead
03:54 < dx> if it wasn't for feed the beast i would have shut down this months ago
03:55 <+sadimusi> I wrote such a proxy way back, I should probably update it sometime https://github.com/sadimusi/MVHP/
03:55 < dx> yeah, i was considering using that one :3
03:55 <+sadimusi> (and replace asyncore with gevent)
03:57 < dx> well the advantage of asyncore is not requiring dependencies
03:57 < TkTech> sadimusi: Fallen in love with gevenet?
03:57 < TkTech> *gevent
03:57 <+sadimusi> of course :)
03:58 <+sadimusi> and according to you asyncore doesn't perfom very well
03:59 < dx> green threads > event loops > threads?
03:59 < TkTech> There is never a valid use for asyncore except pre-2006 tutorials.
04:00 <+sadimusi> TkTech: I'm rewriting mc4p's protocol definition and could use some feedback: https://gist.github.com/sadimusi/6025899
04:00 < TkTech> dx: Cooperative multitasking (ala eventlet) still requires an event loop
04:00 < dx> right.
04:00 <+sadimusi> I once wrote a twisted version of mvhp, but I didn't really like it
04:01 < TkTech> sadimusi: Interesting use of context handlers
04:01 < dx> well asyncore might suck but my server sucks too. i'll just patch to have the new server list ping support and custom motds
04:01 <+sadimusi> I got the idea out of a presentation called "Don't do this" :D
04:01 < TkTech> Twisted is okay, and very feature-full, but I've never enjoyed using it and it simply performs worse than gevent.
04:02 <+sadimusi> twisted just feels more like java to me than even the java stdlib
04:02 < dx> TkTech: oh nice, i always hated twisted irrationally and now i have a reason and a replacement. thanks.
04:03 < dx> disliking twisted is the main reason that i always do my own select() event loops. not exactly efficient, but less ugly in my opinion.
04:04 < dx> i really should check out gevent.
04:05 <+sadimusi> gevent is pretty cool, but the documentation is horrible
04:05 < TkTech> It really, really is. Build the docs from source and they're so much better.
04:05 < dx> is it the kind of documentation that is worse than actually checking the source code?
04:05 < TkTech> Website is eons old.
04:05 < TkTech> sadimusi: Do you want to support multiple versions at the same time?
04:06 <+sadimusi> yes
04:06 <+sadimusi> but to make it easier for me I removed everything < 1.5.2
04:06 < dx> can't you generate the code for those?
04:07 < dx> (...or, well, anyone could after you're done with the general structure)
04:07 <+sadimusi> there were a few ugly packets back then
04:07 <+sadimusi> like the 0x01 which was different for each direction
04:07 < TkTech> sadimusi: So does ClientMessage's metaclass bind to the protocol() instance in the current context?
04:07 < dx> sadimusi: but you need to make this flexible enough to handle ugly packets
04:07 < TkTech> *Message's metaclass
04:08 <+sadimusi> I tried to make it as flexible as I could, I only needed to add ItemStack and Metadata as special types
04:09 < dx> also, i want to see those metaclasses
04:10 <+sadimusi> it's not completely done, but almost: https://gist.github.com/sadimusi/6034575
04:11 <+sadimusi> client and server messages are still handled equally and I didn't implement Dict() yet
04:11 <+sadimusi> hm, __getitem__ probably shouldn't throw AssertionErrors
04:11 < TkTech> sadimusi: class ProtoclVersion
04:12 < dx> TkTech: saw that too, then noticed that he had the typo consistently in other places :D
04:12 < dx> yay for keyword completion.
04:13 < dx> sadimusi: this doesn't actually have metaclasses :(
04:13 <+sadimusi> if anyone wants to use it for something else than debugging, I should probably detect if messages were changed and don't serialize them otherwise
04:14 <+sadimusi> dx: where would you have used them?
04:15 <+sadimusi> the messages are already defined as classes, I don't have to generate them dynamically... 
04:15 < dx> sadimusi: you know ORMs like sqlalchemy, which have "model" structures like these? they usually catch the assignment of the attribute of each field using metaclasses
04:16 < dx> what you did instead of that is "self._order_id = MessageField._NEXT_ID"
04:16 <+sadimusi> yeah, that's kinda hacky
04:16 <+sadimusi> I looked at sqlalchemy, but I don't think I have ever seen uglier code
04:16 < dx> which is global state, and that might not be an issue but i don't like it :D
04:16 < dx> heh
04:17 < dx> yeah, that's the problem with metaclasses. they have a lot of power, but it can be confusing to read, and gets worse if you do a lot of stuff like sqlalchemy does
04:17 <+sadimusi> I don't really mind the global state, but I would have liked 'name = String' instead of 'name = String()'
04:20 <+sadimusi> to me it looked more like sqlalchemy messed with the internal __dict__
04:23 < dx> well, implementing type.__new__ is in fact passing a new value of __dict__ to the object, but before it's created
04:23 < dx> you could turn your String into String() trivially with __new__
04:23 <+sadimusi> can you pass an OrderedDict there? because that's the main issue
04:25 < dx> set an OrderedDict to __dict__? ...don't think so, probably because duck typing, but i don't think that will get you anything useful
04:26 <+sadimusi> why not? then I could easily access all the fields through __dict__
04:27 <+sadimusi> but if all those people on stackoverflow are correct, it won't accept anything else than a standard dict
04:27 < dx> yeah, __dict__ sounds like it's a bit too internal to allow anything
04:28 < dx> but either way, you don't iterate over __dict__ often, you could use a different attribute name for that
04:29 <+sadimusi> well, can I get all the attributes in the correct orders with a metaclass?
04:32 < dx> hmm, i'm googling and i can't find any approach that catches the "attribute set" as i thought it was possible
04:32 <+sadimusi> I googled quite a bit
04:32 < dx> http://stackoverflow.com/a/3288801/2195033
04:32 < dx> this is the best i got
04:32 <+sadimusi> most people suggest the workaround I used or just point out that it's easy in py3k
04:33 < dx> yeah, this one is like what you used, but also adding an attribute to the class with the list of ordered fields
04:51 < dx> okay
04:51 < dx> today i learned that everything i know is a lie
04:51 <+sadimusi> :D
04:52 < dx> okay, not really, but the __setattr__ of metaclasses (which is what i was thinking) only works if you set it *outside* the class definition
05:26 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2072 62 files : Fixed a whole bunch of typos and spelling inconsistencies in comments, member names, and string literals.
15:29 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-0/±4] http://git.io/cKdzEw
15:29 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde 7f57aa0 - fix std.json instead of working around its shitty api | phobos #1421
21:15 <+sadimusi> is it a good sign when my screen randomly goes black for a few seconds and I hear an extremely loud thunder just when the image comes back?
21:16 <+pdelvo> is your gpu driver up to date?
21:16 < dexter0> nah, you should go take a bath
21:17 <+sadimusi> :D
21:17 < iBotPeaches> its cleaning those pixels
21:17  * sadimusi goes around the house unplugging all electronics, just to be safe
21:17 <+sadimusi> not the modem though :)
21:20 < dav1d> haha
21:40 <+sadimusi> oh, pretty new launcher
21:40 <+sadimusi> does it finally support multiple players per account?
21:41 <+sadimusi> "Error! At this time you can only own one copy of Minecraft per account, sorry!" :(
21:42 < Yoshi2> that sounds a lot like a "No."
21:42 <+pdelvo> :(
21:42 <+sadimusi> the launcher probably supports it, but I can't add another player to my mojang account...
21:50 <+pdelvo> It would be cool to have a "download server for this version" button
21:57 <+sadimusi> it just happend again o.O
21:57 <+sadimusi> even longer and louder this time
21:58 <+sadimusi> and again
21:58 <+sadimusi> this is getting annoying :/
21:59 < superjoe> sadimusi, what's going on over there?
21:59 < dav1d> DAMN WEATHER
21:59 <+sadimusi> superjoe: just a little thunderstorm, but it appears to be pretty near and somehow affects my monitor
21:59 < superjoe> haha
22:00 < dexter0> at least you have exciting weather
22:01 <+pdelvo> have you tried to turn it off nd on again?
22:01 < superjoe> the weather?
22:01 <+pdelvo> jeah
22:02 < superjoe> :)
22:02 <+sadimusi> I'll try :)
22:02 < dav1d> you should sleep, that clears the weather
22:02 < dav1d> or open the minecraft console
22:02 < jast> chances are if the thunderstorm affects your monitor, it affects all your other devices, too (e.g. by burning them to a crisp)
22:03 < jast> that said, it's complicated technology and all that
22:03 <+pdelvo> that sounds like your electricity is not stable on a thunderstorm
22:04 < jast> shouldn't that screw up all devices, then?
22:04 <+sadimusi> somehow it doesn't
22:04 < superjoe> I'm assuming it's a CRT monitor right?
22:05 <+sadimusi> my monitor might just be exceptionally crappy
22:05 <+sadimusi> no
22:05 < superjoe> huh.
22:05 <+pdelvo> some of them are better in getting around those hiccups of your electricity
22:06 <+sadimusi> I've lived here my whole life, this never happened before
22:06 <+pdelvo> e.g. computer power supplies have to withstand short power outages. It could be that your monitor is not good at that
22:07 < superjoe> guys wanna see something silly I threw together last night?
22:07 < superjoe> http://githubpopularitycontest.com/
22:08 < jast> quick, make it look all social web and sell it for billions
22:08 < superjoe> haha
22:09 <+sadimusi> looks like capital letters break your script :)
22:10 <+sadimusi> not a single one in the top 100
22:10 < superjoe> I don't think that's a bug
22:10 <+sadimusi> sure? http://githubpopularitycontest.com/find?user=TkTech
22:11 < superjoe> add a couple of his repos with the "forc"
22:11 < superjoe> "force crawl"
22:11 <+sadimusi> indeed
22:12 < superjoe> there now he makes the cut
22:12 < jast> so, I suppose I don't really get any points for my ~12 commits to git/git? ;)
22:12 < superjoe> haha
22:12 < superjoe> jast is your name jast?
22:12 < jast> yes
22:12 < nyuszika7h> umm
22:12 < nyuszika7h> why am I getting this error?
22:12 < nyuszika7h> yggdrasil.YggdrasilIllegalArgumentError: Invalid salt version
22:13 < nyuszika7h> (this is a Python implementation written by me)
22:13 < superjoe> http://githubpopularitycontest.com/find?user=jast
22:13 < jast> whoo, #2178
22:13 < jast> so many points
22:14 < jast> though that number doesn't seem to match the formula
22:14 < superjoe> no?
22:14 < jast> lemme check
22:14 <+sadimusi> nyuszika7h: when doing what?
22:15 < jast> oh, never mind. I can't math.
22:15 < nyuszika7h> yggdrasil.auth('yggdrasil', 'test')
22:15 < nyuszika7h> seems to only trigger on the user name 'yggdrasil'
22:15 <+sadimusi> that's probably an error on their end
22:15 < nyuszika7h> ah ok
22:15 <+sadimusi> probably use bcrypt for password hashing
22:15 < dav1d> nyuszika7h: yeah that happened to me, too
22:16 < dav1d> it's on a invalid username/password combo
22:16 < dav1d> at least it happened to me
22:16 < nyuszika7h> not really
22:16 < nyuszika7h> wait
22:16 <+sadimusi> invalid combo should just throw "Invalid credentials. Invalid username or password."
22:17 < dav1d> sadimusi: it should, but doesn't
22:17 <+sadimusi> I guess somebody manually put a password for yggdrasil into the database
22:17 <+sadimusi> so the salt is missing
22:17 < dav1d> and yep, I also tracked it down to bcrypt but I didn't care too much
22:18 < nyuszika7h> >>> yggdrasil.auth(' '.join([random.choice(string.ascii_lowercase) for i in range(16)]), 'password')
22:18 < nyuszika7h> yggdrasil.YggdrasilInvalidLoginError: Invalid credentials. Invalid username or password.
22:18 < superjoe> wtf is "yggdrasil"
22:18 < nyuszika7h> superjoe: the new authentication system's (code) name
22:19 < superjoe> ahh
22:19 < superjoe> it looks like an obfuscated class name
22:19 < nyuszika7h> lol
22:19 < nyuszika7h> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yggdrasil
22:19 < dav1d> nyuszika7h: try valid username, invalid password
22:19 < jast> so I suppose I should move my unpublished open source projects forward, so that because nobody cares about them I can get no more points for the popularity contest
22:19 < superjoe> lol
22:20 < nyuszika7h> >>> yggdrasil.auth('Notch', 'password')
22:20 < jast> that's kind of my overall strategy for internet fame
22:20 < nyuszika7h> yggdrasil.YggdrasilUserMigratedError: Invalid credentials. Account migrated, use e-mail as username.
22:20 < dav1d> jast: yes you need a bigger e penis
22:20 <+sadimusi> nyuszika7h: I'm pretty sure Notch migrated his account ;)
22:20 < dav1d> nyuszika7h: use an email
22:20 < nyuszika7h> Herobrine hasn't migrated his account :O
22:20 < nyuszika7h> also
22:20 < jast> no, that's not at all what I meant. I meant I need to do more stuff nobody but me cares about, so it's absolutely worthless for bragging.
22:21 < nyuszika7h> >>> yggdrasil.auth('Herobrine', 'password')
22:21 < nyuszika7h> yggdrasil.YggdrasilInvalidLoginError: Invalid credentials. Invalid username or password.
22:21 < dav1d> just use your own
22:21 < nyuszika7h> >>> yggdrasil.auth('nyuszika7h@cadoth.net', 'password')
22:21 < nyuszika7h> yggdrasil.YggdrasilInvalidLoginError: Invalid credentials. Invalid username or password.
22:23 < dav1d> I wonder how minecraft renders the 3d items
22:23 < dav1d> I would probably do this with a shader
22:24 < jast> for minecraft, usually the best guess is 'the way that is easiest to cobble together' ;)
22:24 < dav1d> well I couldn't think of something easy
22:26 < dexter0> constructing a mesh seems simple in theory
22:26 < dexter0> make a quad for each pixel, lump them together...
22:26 < dav1d> dexter0: LOL
22:26 < dexter0> do that twice, and move the second one back a bit
22:26 < dav1d> that would be horrible
22:26 < dexter0> then make more quads to connect the two
22:26 < dav1d> well you can generate these based on the texture
22:26 < dexter0> well yes
22:26 < dav1d> but lol
22:26 < dav1d> that would be horrible
22:27 < dav1d> 16 3d swords on the ground = 5chunks of vertices lol
22:27 < jast> sounds like minecraft :P
22:27 < dav1d> this mod looks great https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZFY_GxoXh0
22:27 < dav1d> jast: haha
22:27 < dexter0> not saying its the best way by far :P
22:28 < jast> I do recall the game getting _very_ slow once you dumped a few hundred items on the ground
22:28 < jast> before they started grouping them
22:28 < dexter0> that was also before the 3d items
22:28 < jast> oh, yeah
22:28 < dexter0> but yeah, probably were drawing a textured quad for each item
22:28 < dav1d> dexter0: cant you do it with *one* quad, texture applied to it and some vertex shader magic to extrude
22:28 < dexter0> with no instancing
22:29 < dexter0> but there are only 4 verts then?
22:29 < dav1d> dexter0: instancing doesn't make rendering faster
22:29 < dexter0> what will you extrude
22:29 < dav1d> mostly reduces vram useage
22:29 < dexter0> instancing does make it faster, less draw calls
22:30 < dexter0> well, it makes data upload faster
22:30 < jast> just compose it from cuboids, Problem Solved (tm)
22:30 < dav1d> dexter0: you would need to pass two vertices instead of one, one has an extrusion factor of 0 the other of let's say 0.3
22:30 < dexter0> which can become a bottleneck fast
22:30 < dav1d> if the texture coord is not 0
22:30 < dav1d> "extrude"
22:30 < dav1d> well if the texture is not 0
22:30 < dav1d> not sure if that would actually work, just an idea
22:30 < dav1d> probably wont work
22:30 < dexter0> how will you form the geometry to create the extrusion along the z-axis?
22:31 < dav1d> dexter0: instancing doesn't reduce the number of draw calls?
22:31 < dexter0> yes it does
22:31 < dav1d> no
22:31 < dexter0> one call to glDrawArraysInstanced vs multiple calls to glDrawArrays
22:31 < dav1d> if I have one fat vbo or one less fat and an element buffer
22:31 < dav1d> still one draw call
22:32 < dav1d> we are probably speaking of different things
22:33 < dexter0> fat VBO is always better yes but less flexible
22:33 < dav1d> why?
22:33 < dexter0> for instance, rendering multiple discrete objects with their own transform matrix
22:33 < dexter0> that you want to animate
22:33 < jast> have you considered hooking up a monostable matrix to the clock gate
23:43 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/s20D6w
23:43 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde 9d60f4c - fixed derp of the day (std.json improvement)
--- Day changed sam. juil. 20 2013
01:43 < TkTech> superjoe: Force crawl's placeholder doesn't make it clear that it accepts a username instead of a full repo path
01:44 < TkTech> superjoe: Also, if it only works off of contributions you should sync with github using OAuth and get the permission to read private repo statistics
01:44 < TkTech> superjoe: 'cause my rank would be better than 532 ;-(
01:46 < TkTech> sadimusi: Oh, you tried my name. Haha. Should have kept reading.
01:46 < TkTech> sadimusi: BTW, going to push your repo with your yggdrasil code, or just in gists for now?
01:47 <+sadimusi> I'm still working on the protocol, I'll finish the auth stuff afterwards
01:48 <+sadimusi> and it's pretty specific for mc4p, your little script is probably way better suited to mess around with
01:48 <+sadimusi> just wasted half an hour figuring out that OrderedDict(a=1, b=2) was a stupid idea :/
01:49 < TkTech> Wait, why? Does your data fit the model for just sorting a dict/sorted set?
01:50 <+sadimusi> OrderedDict doesn't really sort, I just need to keep the order I defined it in
01:50 < TkTech> Wait…so…a list?
01:51 < TkTech> Wait, no, this guessing game is silly.
01:51 < TkTech> What's your use case?
01:51 <+sadimusi> https://gist.github.com/sadimusi/6025899#file-message-py-L647
01:53 < TkTech> Starting to look like you're reinventing construct
01:54 < TkTech> (Don't misunderstand, reinventing the wheel for fun rocks)
01:54 <+sadimusi> somebody mentioned construct here once, I didn't really like it
01:54 < dav1d> ←
01:55 < TkTech> Anything in particular?
01:55 < TkTech> MostAwesomeDude (you remember him?) is the maintainer of it.
01:56 < TkTech> nyuszika7h: Happen to be around?
01:56 <+sadimusi> I do remember him, the last time he was here we got into an argument and he left forever
01:56 < TkTech> …the internet…'tis a silly place.
01:56 < dav1d> omg, really?
01:56 < dav1d> I didn't know that...
01:56 < TkTech> nyuszika7h: Well anyways, the cadoth.net domain you're using in your copyright header goes to a spam page. Typo?
01:57 < dav1d> TkTech: cadoth.tk?
01:57 < superjoe> TkTech, nah, it's a popularity contest
01:57 < superjoe> you can't be secretly popular
01:58 < dav1d> TkTech: yeah nyuszika7h probably meant cadoth.tk that's "their" domain
01:58 < superjoe> TkTech, besides, how many stars do you actually have on private repos?
01:58 < TkTech> dav1d: Good find, I only saw it from https://gist.github.com/nyuszika7h/6042188
01:58 < TkTech> dav1d: Which I randomly found searching for python and auth.
01:58 < TkTech> superjoe: About 1000?
01:59 < TkTech> superjoe: I have many contract repos with larger companies where the entire dev team stars it.
01:59 < dav1d> TkTech: interesting, I know nyu from a differen channel, and I know that the actual domain is cadoth.tk why he writes .net everywhere, I don't know
01:59 < superjoe> how is that even possible
01:59 < superjoe> ahh
02:02 <+sadimusi> TkTech: that's how my yggdrasil stuff currently looks: https://gist.github.com/sadimusi/6043202
02:02 <+sadimusi> my focus is more on the laucnher_profiles.json than on the API
02:03 < TkTech> Yeah, I think in something intended as a library that should be kept separate
02:03 < TkTech> But for your use case makes total sense
02:03 < dav1d> sadimusi: why is YggdrasilException indented like this
02:04 <+sadimusi> it's an inner class
02:04 < dav1d> that should be on the outer scope
02:04 < dav1d> sadimusi: why?
02:04 < dav1d> you don't want someone to catch it?
02:04 < dav1d> except: YggdrasilAuthenticator.YggdrasilException
02:04 < dav1d> ^ woot
02:04 <+sadimusi> I just like to keep my things hierarchical
02:05 <+sadimusi> but you're right, catching it sucks
02:05 < dav1d> I often make a exception.py
02:05 < dav1d> move all my exceptions in there, with a nice hierachical inheritance
02:06 <+sadimusi> it doesn't really matter for me since it's not meant to be a library
02:07 < dav1d>     INVALIDATE_URL = YGGDRASIL_URL + "invalidate"
02:07 < dav1d>     SIGNOUT_URL = YGGDRASIL_URL + "signout"
02:07 < dav1d> :(
02:07 < dav1d> both of these are not on the wiki
02:07 <+sadimusi> I know
02:07 <+sadimusi> I don't even know what the difference is
02:07 < dav1d> signout invalidates all?
02:07 <+sadimusi> that wouldn't make much sense
02:07 < dav1d> indeed, but it's minecraft
02:07 < dav1d> :>
02:08 < TkTech> One is never actually used by the client
02:08 < TkTech> My library also includes the link but I didn't bother implementing it, don't actually know what it's supposed to do.
02:09 < TkTech> nyuszika7h: Unless you've worked on your snippet since that gist was posted, interested in working together? https://gist.github.com/TkTech/5970188
02:09 < dav1d> TkTech: why the @property everywhere?
02:10 < dav1d> I don't understand why everyone marks stuff private or tries to make it readonly
02:10 < dav1d> documentate, don't do it, if the user still does it, his fault
02:10 <+sadimusi> dav1d: about the exceptions: I hate it when a script crashes and just displays the name of the exception and I then have to come up with something like sqlalchemy.orm.exc.NoResultFound:
02:10 < TkTech> Because this is intended as a library and should be slightly rigid. It's not indented to be private, it's intended to be a read-only accessor.
02:11 < dav1d> TkTech: private in non-python languages
02:11 < dav1d> also private in general and read-only
02:11 < dav1d> I simply see no benefit of it, except of more code
02:11 < TkTech> Why would you want the username to be mutable?
02:12 < TkTech> And session_token is a read-only convenience property, for example.
02:12 < dav1d> TkTech: you don't want to, but why do you assume the user of your lib is dumb?
02:12 < dav1d> TkTech: that's something else
02:12 < TkTech> Because I've made libraries before and users are dumb.
02:12 < dav1d> session_token actually does something
02:12 < dav1d> TkTech: then it's their fault for not reading the documentation if they are dumb
02:13 < dav1d> I am glad python has no private
02:13 < dav1d> I needed to monkeypatch/access (something supposed to be private) often enough
02:14 < dav1d> self._selected_profile = j.get('selectedProfile')
02:15 < TkTech> dav1d: Er, yes it does.
02:15 < dav1d> availableProfiles and selectedProfiles can not exist, good to know...
02:15 < TkTech> Python has a concept for "private" methods.
02:15 < dav1d> TkTech: and that is
02:15 < TkTech> __
02:15 < TkTech> class Bob(object): def __private(self): pass
02:15 < dav1d> TkTech: that is not private
02:15 < TkTech> Anything with two leading __ will have its name mangled.
02:16 < dav1d> that is at maximum a convention people agreed on
02:16 < TkTech> …no...
02:16 < dav1d> I can still access it from anywhere
02:16 < TkTech> …no you can't...
02:16 < dav1d> I can?
02:16 < TkTech> dav1d: http://www.faqs.org/docs/diveintopython/fileinfo_private.html
02:17 < dav1d> TkTech: I still can access it
02:17 < TkTech> You cannot access it by name. You need to inspect the object and guess.
02:17 < dav1d> TkTech: http://vp.dav1d.de/aDv?-
02:17 < TkTech> That is the same with privates in ANY language, including C.
02:18 < dav1d> TkTech: C has no private?
02:18 < TkTech> ++.
02:18 < dav1d> or are you speaking of "exported" not "exported"
02:18 < TkTech> (Also technically yes it does)
02:18 < TkTech> Yeah. You know what I'm talking about.
02:19 < dav1d> well a compiler shouldn't allow it, if he properly implements it, except some mangling hacks which are even compiler dependend
02:19 < dav1d> I really think the concept of private is horrible
02:20 < dav1d> (and I still use it.. I don't know why)
02:20 < TkTech> So, I think you've got a different concept of privates.
02:20 < TkTech> There's a difference between making it *impossible* to use a method/attribute.
02:20 < TkTech> And not exposing it as a public API.
02:21 < dav1d> first should never happen
02:21 < dav1d> latter makes in some cases sense
02:22 < dav1d> haha http://vp.dav1d.de/tgLdh?py
02:32 <+sadimusi> argh, I just rebooted and now my pc doesn't detect the monitor anymore x.x
02:32 < TkTech> Hah, linux?
02:33 <+sadimusi> both mac and windows
02:33 < TkTech> Multi-monitor setups used to be such a bitch.
02:33 <+sadimusi> might be connected to the thunderstorm earlier :/
02:34 < dav1d> hehe mac, another miracle to me
02:34 <+sadimusi> and I can't find another monitor in the house
02:44 <+sadimusi> yes, that is exactly the resolution I want http://cl.ly/QN2h
02:50 < TkTech> sadimusi: Ew, you're using a TV?
02:50 <+sadimusi> only monitor I could find
02:50 < TkTech> Usually burns my eyes after awhile using a large-format display
02:51 <+sadimusi> I'm currently at my parents house, but at home I always use a tv
02:56 < TkTech> Crazy. Totally crazy mon.
02:56 <+sadimusi> I know :D
03:01 <+sadimusi> the tv thing doesn't really work -.- where can I find a resonably sized monitor at 3AM?
03:05 <+sadimusi> lets try the local school, there must be something there
03:09 < TkTech> If the cops ask we've never heard of you.
03:25 <+sadimusi> that was only partially successful, since they mostly have imacs and macbooks the only monitor I could find belongs to the file server and is like 21"
03:48 <+sadimusi> of course I don't notice that I don't have a firewire port anymore until _after_ I already carried my sister's 27" imac to my room m(
03:48 < dexter0> what were you going to do with a firewire port?
03:49 <+sadimusi> start my computer in target mode and then boot from it on the imac
03:49 < dexter0> oh, right
03:49 < dexter0> you can do that over thunderbolt as well but I bet you don't have a cable
03:50 <+sadimusi> I do have one, but it's at my apartment in Zurich
03:50 <+sadimusi> looks like I'm stuck with this 21" thing until at least tuesday
03:51 <+sadimusi> or maybe I could go to a physical store and buy a new one
03:51 < dexter0> those things are $$
03:52 <+sadimusi> since I'm rarely here anymore I don't really care about quality
03:53 <+sadimusi> so should be <300$
11:09 < nyuszika7h> TkTech: cadoth.net has expired, we're working on getting it
11:09 < nyuszika7h> it's still not available for registration because it's owned by some person who insisted on registering it for me for a year or a bit more
11:14 < nyuszika7h> dav2d, TkTech: cadoth.tk is a temporary domain until we get things back up
11:15 < nyuszika7h> unfortunately my mail doesn't work as I can't get cadoth.net yet and it's a PITA to change it on all the sites
11:15 < nyuszika7h> so if you want to contact me, nyuszika7h (at) gmail (dot) com is preferred over the cadoth.tk one
11:40 < shoghicp> hi
11:40 < shoghicp> tell me what do you think about https://account.pocketmine.net/m/login
11:41 <+ammar2> looks very minecrafty
11:42 <+ammar2> shoghicp: the little hover around the inputs when you focus on them, add a transition to it and make it a tad bit more pronounced
11:42 <+ammar2> but otherwise it looks good
11:42 <+ammar2> also try moving the login box a bit below the top bar, seems a bit close unecessarily
12:09 < shoghicp> ammar2: thanks
12:09 < shoghicp> it is designed for mobile devices
12:09 < shoghicp> but looks fine on PC too :D
12:17 < shoghicp> so I'm managing 96K users right now in our own Realms system ;)
12:17 < shoghicp> for the pocket edition
14:48 < dav1d> are there any values on how fast a player moves, sprints, falls, etc.?
14:49 < dav1d> I mean there is this: http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Speed#Speed
14:49 < dav1d> but nothing about acceleration/falling etc.
16:32 < x68> for the new json authencation scheme
16:32 < x68> doesm y json payload have to look exatcly this, http://pastebin.com/pJrS0Sem ?
16:34 < iBotPeaches> x68: http://wiki.vg/Authentication
16:35 < x68> been looking at, i am trying to construct a static string
16:35 < x68> i want to verify if the spaces and newlines matter
16:41 < Drainedsoul> JSON ignores whitespace
16:41 < x68> i see, but when i am doing my post call to https://authserver.mojang.com/authenticate
16:42 < x68> i am getting a 403, which means i am probably doing something wrong 
16:48 < dav1d> x68: did you set the correct http header?
16:48 < dav1d> Content-Type in specific
16:48 < x68> yes i did
16:48 < x68> currently my web call is like so:
16:49 < dav1d> code would be helpful
16:49 < Drainedsoul> do you know what 403 means?
16:49 < Drainedsoul> assuming the server is sane, it doesn't mean that your request is poorly-formed (that'd be 400)
16:49 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: probably sending a GET instead of a POST?
16:49 < dav1d> x68: ^
16:49 < x68> forbidden error, i know what it means
16:50 < x68> i get 400 errors now AND i am doing post calls
16:50 < x68> http://pastebin.com/aneadnu3, here's what i am currently doing
16:50 < dav1d> that shows nothing
16:50 < Drainedsoul> what are you POSTing?
16:50 < dav1d> and what is the url
16:51 < x68>  var baseAddress = "https://authserver.mojang.com/authenticate";
16:51 < dav1d> just show the whole code/function
16:51 < dav1d> including your sample data
16:51 < x68> alright
16:51 < dav1d> we won't steal it
16:52 < x68> i've been herel ong here enough to know that :)
16:52 < dav1d> kk :)
16:53 < x68> http://pastebin.com/4nWZc4WZ
16:53 < x68> also how's the d bot coming along dav1d?
16:53 < dav1d> x68: not a bot, client :)
16:53 < dav1d> good actually, working on physics right now!
16:54 < dav1d> x68: parsedcontent is not valid json
16:54 < x68> i forgot the braces didn't i ...?
16:55 < dav1d> yes
16:55 < x68> haha, thanks :)
16:55 < dav1d> I recommend you to invest into a json lib ;)
16:55 < dav1d> if you want to properly parse the response you need it anyways
16:56 < x68> no need when it's for a simple call this
16:56 < x68> actually, you are right .. it would make parsing the error messages much easier
16:56 < dav1d> depending on what you want to do with the reponse
16:57 < dav1d> x68: also what happens if your password contains a "
16:57 < dav1d> this is still a valid password
16:57 < dav1d> In [10]: json.dumps('"password')
16:57 < dav1d> Out[10]: '"\\"password"'
16:57 < dav1d> a json lib handles that correctly
16:57 < x68> i see, good catch
16:57 < dav1d> In [11]: print json.dumps('"password')
16:57 < dav1d> "\"password"
16:58 < dav1d> ^ easier to see
16:58 < x68> thanks :)
16:58 < dav1d> glad I could help
16:58 < Drainedsoul> what characters are and aren't valid in passwords?
16:59 < x68> does the new launcher work with 1.5.x and 1.4.x for server authetication?
16:59 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: I think everything is valid?
16:59 < dav1d> x68: yes it should
16:59 < x68> good to know :)
16:59 < Drainedsoul> if everything is valid hold on
16:59 < dav1d> the session tokens of yggsdrasil and the old api are identical
16:59 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: try it out?
16:59 < Drainedsoul> http://i.imgur.com/bKSzoRf.png here, you need to handle every case
17:00 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: escape control characters?
17:00 < dav1d> that reminds me of that spotify unicode bug
17:01 < Drainedsoul> http://www.json.org/string.gif
17:01 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: ?
17:01 < dav1d> any unicode character, except " or \ both can be escaped
17:01 < Drainedsoul> I'm just saying, if he wants to send text, he needs to escape more than just "
17:01 < dav1d> oh
17:01 < Drainedsoul> he needs to escape reverse solidus, double quote, and all control characters
17:02 < dav1d> I thought you were speaking of json is not capable of sending unicode properly
17:02 < Drainedsoul> oh, no, it definitely is
17:02 < Drainedsoul> the MC protocol isn't, but that's another topic for another time :(
17:02 < dav1d> yeah I was kinda confused
17:02 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: I know :)
17:02 < dav1d> but shouldn't be a problem for passwords
17:03 < Drainedsoul> "shouldn't" is like the worst word to ever come up in Unicode-related discussions
17:03 < Drainedsoul> :P
17:04 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: I don't know how fucked up their database is :P
17:04 < dav1d> well, hopefully they don't store the password plain
17:06 < Drainedsoul> I'd be interested to find out how many systems won't let you login with canonically equivalent passwords, because they just hash raw bytes without normalizing
17:07 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: a lot probably
17:07 < Drainedsoul> :(
17:07 < dav1d> hashing raw bytes is easier and safer (less bugs)
17:08 < dav1d> even though 1% of users might get pissed
17:08 < Drainedsoul> I suppose.  I guess not letting a user login with a correct password is preferable to perhaps letting users login with the wrong password.
17:09 < dav1d> yeah
17:09 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: seen http://labs.spotify.com/2013/06/18/creative-usernames/ ?
17:10 < Drainedsoul> yeah I saw that on Reddit a while back.  To me that just seemed like they made it more complicated than it had to be
17:10 < dav1d> as it turned out, I have no idea of unicode
17:10 < Drainedsoul> Unicode is a special kind of fucked up
17:10 < dav1d> but it was an interesting read though
17:12 < x68> accesToken is the session id 
17:12 < x68> and the client token is the new field that has been added, correct?
18:02 < dav1d> new launcher?
18:02 < dav1d> multiple profiles supported? :O
18:03 < dav1d> x68: session id is player uuid + access token
18:03 < dav1d> token:accessToken:UUID
18:04 < dav1d> I think that is on the wiki
18:45 < barneygale> sweet. writing a cartographer, output map managed to be correct north/south/east/west orientation first time round :D
19:30 < dav1d> I need a nice function for gravity :(
19:34 < shoghicp> ^ me too
19:34 < dav1d>             float ticks = falling.peek().msecs;
19:34 < dav1d>             // not really what minecraft uses
19:34 < dav1d>             acceleration.y = -pow(ticks, 1.048) * 2 * s;
19:34 < dav1d> shoghicp: ^
19:34 < dav1d> shoghicp: this works "ok"
19:34 < dav1d> shoghicp: ticks is not ticks sonder msecs in air
19:34 < dav1d> but it doesn't work for jumping it all
19:35 < shoghicp> in fact, I need full physics
19:35 < dav1d> shoghicp: you have that implemented already?
19:35 < dav1d> shoghicp: that's what I am doing right now
19:35 < shoghicp> I had a "simple" one
19:35 < shoghicp> I'm going to write it for 1.4 xD
19:35 < shoghicp> the current one lags the server
19:35 < dav1d> I would like if I could use the gravity automatically for jumping
19:36 < dav1d> +y velocity, gravity takes over at a height of 1.1blocks
19:36 < dav1d> shoghicp: so you have something?
19:37 < shoghicp> yes, an incremental one. saves the last time checked and calculates everything in the next check
19:37 < dav1d> shoghicp: does jumping work?
19:37 < shoghicp> at least players can jump
19:38 < shoghicp> and entities can go upside
19:38 < dav1d> shoghicp: can you link me to the code?
19:38 < shoghicp> up*
19:38 < shoghicp> I don't want you to use that code
19:38 < shoghicp> xD
19:38 < shoghicp> let me find it
19:40 < shoghicp> also, my collision check is getting all the blocks after the actual position and the next position
19:40 < shoghicp> https://github.com/PocketMine/PocketMine-MP/blob/master/src/world/Entity.php#L386
19:40 < shoghicp> that is really messed up
19:40 < dav1d> lol
19:40 < dav1d> yeah
19:41 < dav1d> I saw this, I was hoping you mean something else :>
19:41 < dav1d> thanks
19:41 < shoghicp> I couldn't rewrite it before, too busy with multiworld
19:41 < dav1d> shoghicp: did you see http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Speed#Speed
19:41 < shoghicp> I'll ping you if I get a new system ;)
19:41 < dav1d> Vertical Speeds
19:41 < shoghicp> dav1d: yes, but they fail in MCPE
19:41 < dav1d> that is completly off
19:42 < shoghicp> no idea why
19:42 < dav1d> makes no sense, either I am too stuipid to implement it or it simply doesn't work
19:42 < shoghicp> dav1d: for testing purposes, send each position update
19:42 < shoghicp> do not send velocity updates
19:42 < dav1d> shoghicp: I am client
19:42 < shoghicp> hmm
19:43 < shoghicp> where is your code?
19:43 < dav1d> shoghicp: not really existent
19:43 < shoghicp> ok
19:43 < dav1d> sec I am pushing what I have
19:43 < shoghicp> try with a fake gravity first ;)
19:44 < dav1d> shoghicp: and that is?
19:44 < shoghicp> I think that Minecraft uses 16-32 m/s^2 as the gravity, right?
19:45 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 4 commits to master [+0/-0/±15] http://git.io/V4KDBQ
19:45 < dav1d> shoghicp: ?
19:45 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde 48a15c5 - d-apt moved
19:45 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde 8526954 - Apply physics to player instead of camera
19:45 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde 6631fb8 - rework physics, camera, player api
19:45 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde 64ec109 - broken gravity
19:45 < shoghicp> let me write some code
19:45 < dav1d> shoghicp: can you add parens?
19:45 < dav1d> 16-(32^2m/s)?
19:46 < dav1d> or s^2?
19:46 < shoghicp> oh xD
19:47 < dav1d> shoghicp: mh?
19:47 < dav1d> shoghicp: https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/brala/physics/survival.d#L53
19:47 < dav1d> shoghicp: https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/brala/physics/physics.d
19:54 < shoghicp> dav1d: https://gist.github.com/shoghicp/574e9f75bcbae4d7379d
19:54 < shoghicp> you can set the velocity so you can jump
19:56 < dav1d> shoghicp: microtime?
19:56 < shoghicp> microseconds
19:56 < Brott> happy birthday dav1d 
19:57 < dav1d> Brott: why?
19:57 < Brottweiler> it says it's your birthday on skype lol
19:57 < shoghicp> dav1d: time() is less precise
19:57 < dav1d> shoghicp: oh nvm
19:57 < dav1d> Brottweiler: that's wrong, but my friends birthday is today
19:57 < dav1d> Brottweiler: but thanks :D
19:58 < dav1d> Brottweiler: you saw the video I notice'd you?
19:58 < Brottweiler> :(
19:58 < dav1d> shoghicp: thanks gonna try that
19:58 < dav1d> Brottweiler: ?
19:58 < shoghicp> :)
19:58 < Brottweiler> dav1d: yeah yeah i saw that video when he uploaded it though :P
19:58 < dav1d> hehe
19:58 < dav1d> Brottweiler: have you seen him in stockholm? :>
19:59 < Brottweiler> no XD
20:00 < Brottweiler> I do not even think I would like to..
20:02 < dav1d> Brottweiler: maybe he would gave you from his delicious fish :>
20:02 < dav1d> man english is hard today
20:02 < Brottweiler> Surströmming
20:04 < dav1d> shoghicp: what does this mean? 16 meters per second^2
20:04 < dav1d> why is this -32?
20:04 < shoghicp> or -16
20:04 < shoghicp> I set the one that I remembered
20:04 < shoghicp> set it to -16
20:09 < dav1d> doesn't quite work
20:10 < shoghicp> ?
20:12 < dav1d> I am comparing it with vanilla client
20:12 < dav1d> speeds don't match
20:13 < dav1d> shoghicp: with 32 it comes at least close
20:13 < dav1d> thanks, better than what I had
20:14 < shoghicp> welcome!
20:37  * barneygale wonders if he's found a minecraft bug
20:37 < barneygale> check out the two avenues where trees didn't generate: http://imgur.com/bpx8rXm
20:39 < dav1d> barneygale: or you have a bug
20:40 < barneygale> I can't see how it could be something of mine
20:40 < barneygale> the other terrain works there fine
20:40 < barneygale> e.g. there are lakes and whatnot in the avenue
20:40 < barneygale> it's possible the heightmap might be wrong for those chunks
20:41 < barneygale> and I could work around that, but it's still not really my bug
20:41  * barneygale tries to figure out how it works
20:47 < dav1d> lol
20:47 < dav1d> I just implemented longjump
20:47 < dav1d> acceleration.y = 20;
20:47 < dav1d> bit too much :>
20:49 < dav1d> man this code sucks and is a mess
20:49 < dexter0> too much technical debt?
20:51 < dav1d> mh?
20:51 < dav1d> well it's not even a mess just meh, I don't like it
21:14 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±4] http://git.io/Es2_3A
21:14 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde e3a7e6c - implement jumping, creative gravity/fly toggle
--- Day changed dim. juil. 21 2013
00:28 < ffmdr> is there some cool tool to detect obfuscation changes and remap mappings automatically?
00:28 < ffmdr> I mean
00:28 < ffmdr> where one is original minecraft 1.6.2 and other is same version but with diffrent obfuscation
00:28 < ffmdr> shifted obf schema
00:29 <+sadimusi> the mcp guys use some kind of script which was originally written by TkTec
00:29 <+sadimusi> or at least they used to
01:21 < ffmdr> yeah I am searching for something like that
01:22 < ffmdr> well searge is clearly working with original mojang mappings on livestreams so I guess its not too hard for him to remap
01:29 < [z]> https://github.com/agaricusb/MinecraftRemapping may be what you want
01:29 < [z]> But I don't know how you use it
01:42 < x68> for Entity Properties (0x2C) , i am confused as to how i should read the ListElement 
02:05 <+sadimusi> x68: what is unclear?
02:05 < ffmdr> [z]: it contains everything to everything mappings :d not sure if I can generate my own
02:06 < x68> i was unclear about the elements, i just have to loop and read long,long,double,byte  n times
02:07 < ffmdr> oh these srg in this repo are really useful
02:12 <+sadimusi> using two mc4p instances to debug mc4p <3
02:27 < Drainedsoul> x68: http://i.imgur.com/Mrsv65G.png
02:29 < x68> still slighty confused about the elements
02:30 <+sadimusi> this is my definition, it has some labels: https://gist.github.com/sadimusi/6025899#file-message-py-L642
02:30 < Drainedsoul> how so?
02:31 < x68> currently i have it like so:
02:32 < x68> http://hastebin.com/bipepedago.vala
02:32 < x68> but i am getting read errors afterwards
02:32 <+sadimusi> ah
02:32 <+sadimusi> each of the values in the dict has its own list
02:32 < x68> pardon?
02:33 <+sadimusi> for each property you read a double and the list
02:33 <+sadimusi> for most properties the list will be empty
02:33 < x68> i somewhat understand
02:34 < x68> basically the latter list correpsonds to the dictionary that is sent before?
02:34 <+sadimusi> the structure could look something like this: {'generic.movementSpeed': {'value': 1, 'list': []}, 'something.else': {'value': 1, 'list': []}}
02:35 < x68> ah i see
02:35 <+sadimusi> maybe burger's output would have helped the most http://b.wiki.vg/1.6.1...1.6.2#packets:0x2c
02:35 < x68> one thing, cna you verify if my implementation is correct?
02:36 <+sadimusi> yes, the types all look correct
02:36 < x68> d'oh i see what i did wrong :)
02:36 < x68> it's a nested loop
02:37 <+sadimusi> exactly
02:37 < x68> no more errors :)
03:25 <+sadimusi> the new mc4p parser finally works completely :) just a prettier alternative to those OrderDicts is missing
03:43 < x68> for online-mode=true and for 1.6.2, which url do i verify the accessToken with?
03:43 <+sadimusi> are you a server?
03:43 < x68> client, has the url changed from 1.4.x and 1.5.x?
03:44 <+sadimusi> I don't think so
03:44 <+sadimusi> you want to verify wether the access token is valid?
03:44 < x68> i want to connect to a 1.6.2 server with online-mode=true
03:44 < x68> currently i am using the new authetication scheme
03:45 <+sadimusi> it's still the same server
03:45 < x68> ah i see
03:45 <+sadimusi> you just have to build your session id http://wiki.vg/Authentication#Session_ID
03:45 < x68> okay :)
03:50 < x68> the new session id is generated like so, token:<accessToken>:<profile ID> ?
03:50 < x68> in this case, what exactly is profile id?
03:51 <+sadimusi> the id of the active profile
03:51 <+sadimusi> you get it when authenticating or refreshing
03:52 < x68> currently it is always 0?
03:52 <+sadimusi> no
03:52 < x68> okay
03:52 <+sadimusi> just use the selectedProfile.id you got when logging in, currently you can't really change it
03:53 <+sadimusi> or at least there's no way for us to try it out
03:55 < x68> what do you mean?
03:56 < x68> do you mean, availableProfiles.id?
03:56 <+sadimusi> no, selectedProfile
03:57 <+sadimusi> which is the same as availableProfiles[0].id
03:58 < x68> i see, thanks again
03:58 < x68> i also noticed that minecraft usesj son for chat now?
03:59 <+sadimusi> yes
03:59 <+sadimusi> it still has some issues though
03:59 <+sadimusi> but mostly in the client, so that doesn't concern you
03:59 < x68> okay, but i need extra parsing :)
04:00 <+sadimusi> and you need proprietary language files
04:00 < x68> really now? ..
04:01 <+sadimusi> I don't expect mojang to make a fuzz about it, but yes
04:01 <+sadimusi> did you look at the format yet?
04:01 < x68> not yet, i just took a quick look at what my gui was dumping out
04:15 < x68> sadimusi: 
04:15 <+sadimusi> hm?
04:16 < x68> http://hastebin.com/fiqasokepa.avrasm
04:16 <+sadimusi> no no
04:16 < x68> nope?
04:16 <+sadimusi> token:x:z
04:16 < x68> !! i see
04:16 < x68> token is a constant, yeah?
04:17 <+sadimusi> yes
04:17 < x68> and now i have authentication support thanks to you :)
04:19 < x68> also burger isn't displayign the new blocks added in 1.5.x and 1.6.x when i do a comparison with 1.4.x
04:19 <+sadimusi> the new resources system broke most of burger
04:20 < x68> aw :(
04:20 <+sadimusi> but there's already a beta of an update http://beta.ceilingcat.ch
04:20 < x68> huzzah :D
04:20 < dx> sadimusi: why is that still "beta" anyway?
04:21 <+sadimusi> there are still things missing
04:21 <+sadimusi> like proper handling of all the versions
04:21 <+sadimusi> and I was working on a redesign
04:21 < dx> oh ok
04:22 <+sadimusi> it's a completely new server based in flask, so it's not just an update
04:22 <+sadimusi> *on
04:22 < x68> still broke and some versions are missing
04:23 < x68> i see the reason for beta now
04:23 <+sadimusi> versions are missing?
04:23 < x68> 1.4.x
04:23 <+sadimusi> they are definitely not sorted correctly
04:23 <+sadimusi> but they should be somewhere
04:23 < x68> *had to scroll*
04:24 <+sadimusi> block diffs might be somewhat useless because all the block's texture changed
04:24 <+sadimusi> well, the new ones are at the bottom
04:25 < x68> i have no need for textures right now
04:26 < x68> however, it seems to just spit out all the blocks in minecraft 
04:27 <+sadimusi> that's what I meant
04:27 < x68> ah okay :)
04:27 <+sadimusi> because all of them changed...
04:28 < x68> it's alright :)
04:30 < dx> sadimusi: woo flask
04:30 < dx> sadimusi: what were you using before?
04:30 <+sadimusi> php
04:30  * sadimusi duck
04:31 <+sadimusi> *ducks
04:31 < dx> :D
04:31 < dx> yeah, i see how the migration of that could be hard then
04:31 < dx> probably easier to change dns
04:32 <+sadimusi> what do you mean?
04:33 < dx> some webservers that only have php make it hard to use other languages.. some don't even have shell access
04:34 < dx> of course that might not be the situation here, but it's very common
04:34 <+sadimusi> both sites are already running on the same server, so that won't be a problem
04:34 < dx> ..oh.
04:34 <+sadimusi> I think b.wiki.vg is just a cname for burger.ceilingcat.ch
04:34 < dx> okay :D
04:34 < x68> there are abotu 20 ticks/second, right?
04:34 <+sadimusi> yes
04:35 < x68> thanks
04:35 < x68> so 1/20 of a ms is how long a tick is?
04:35 <+sadimusi> o.O
04:35 <+sadimusi> 20ms
04:36 <+sadimusi> *50
04:36 < x68> 1000 ms = 1 s
04:36 < x68> 1/20 * 1000 = 50
04:36 < x68> correct?
04:36 <+sadimusi> yes
04:36 < dx> 1/20 of a second, not ms
04:36 <+sadimusi> 50 != 1/20
04:36 <+sadimusi> yeah
04:36 < x68> currently my timer for a tick is called every 50ms
04:37 < dx> (that looked like just a typo)
04:37 < dx> yes, 50ms is fine
04:37 < x68> got it
04:57 < x68> sadimusi: my bot currently has path finding
04:57 < x68> my current problem is that it moves too fast
04:58 < x68> i do structural recursion on it , e.g point1 -> point2 -> point3
06:53 < ffmdr> I am looking at how regeneration hack works in some hacked clients(faster natural regeneration)...it looks like it sends 7000 onGround packets
06:54 <+sadimusi> can't you just diff the classes?
06:54 < ffmdr> diff hacked client with vanilla?
06:54 <+sadimusi> yes
06:54 <+sadimusi> or does the hacked client do way more things than that?
06:55 < ffmdr> no, most hacked clients recompile with proguard so the obfuscation schema shifts
06:55 < ffmdr> to prevent skidding
06:58 < ffmdr>         if (this.worldObj.difficultySetting == 0 && this.func_110143_aJ() < this.func_110138_aP() && this.worldObj.getGameRules().getGameRuleBooleanValue("naturalRegeneration") && this.ticksExisted % 20 * 12 == 0)
06:58 < ffmdr> this.heal(1.0F)
06:58 < ffmdr> I have no idea how sending onground packets could make regen faster :/
07:00 <+sadimusi> you could at least try to find out where those packets are sent
07:00 <+sadimusi> there certainly can't be too many places
07:01 <+sadimusi> which client are we talking about? I'd like to take a look
07:01 < ffmdr> kinky
07:01 < ffmdr> just route null their irc before you run it lol
07:03 < ffmdr> well jd-gui fails on many important classes
07:03 < ffmdr> and the jar is overloaded meaning multiple functions with same name
07:04 <+sadimusi> the white page now detects ad blockers? o.O
07:04 < ffmdr> what white page?
07:05 <+sadimusi> adf.ly
07:05 < ffmdr> its not adf.ly detecting adblock
07:05 < ffmdr> its page it redirected you to
07:06 <+sadimusi> http://cl.ly/QM6z
07:06 < ffmdr> LOL
07:11 < ffmdr> well if I reobf the jar again without overloading it
07:11 < ffmdr> maybe overloading would be gone
07:39 < dx> lol "the white page"
08:01 < TkTech> sadimusi: It's just a CNAME
13:32 < dav1d> 0: survival, 1: creative, 2: adventure. Bit 3 (0x8) is the hardcore flag
13:32 < dav1d> shouldn't that be 0x4?
13:32 < dav1d> 3rd bit is 0x4 not 0x8
13:33 < dx> depends if you count from 0 or 1 :D
13:34 < dav1d> dx: http://vp.dav1d.de/P2j?d
13:34 < dav1d> dx: now if HARDCORE is 0b1000 this looks strange
13:35 < dav1d> let's see if burger knows more
13:35 < dx> hm i see
13:35 < dav1d> oh burger only has packets dayum
13:35 < dav1d> dx: would make more sense if survival was 1 though
13:35 < dav1d> imo
13:36 < dav1d> then adventure and hardcore set also the "1 bit"
13:36 < dx> why? survival appeared first
13:36 < dav1d> so you could check for the one bit and get, mode is basically survival
13:36 < dav1d> dx: physics are the same in survival, adventure, hardcore
13:36 < dav1d> if mode & 1: physics = survival
13:36 < dx> oh, that. i don't think they designed this to be convenient for your physics behavior code
13:37 < dav1d> dx: it just would make more sense :>
13:37 < dav1d> gotta test this and confirm it's 0x4
13:37 < dx> it's just adding numbered gamemodes and then having a flag that applies to all of them
13:38 < dx> 0b1000 would make more sense if they plan to add more gamemodes
13:38 < dav1d> dx: why?
13:38 < dav1d> what if they want to add two more
13:39 < shoghicp> In pocketmine I have 4 gamemodes ;)
13:39 < shoghicp> survival, creative, adventure, spectator
13:39 < shoghicp> spectator is creative without interaction perms. ;)
13:40 < shoghicp> and flags are different from the gamemode
13:40 < shoghicp> so I can change the adventure flag without changing the gamemode
13:40 < shoghicp> in fact, I can't change the gamemode xD
13:41 < dav1d>         if(mode == Player.Mode.CREATIVE && this._mode != Player.Mode.CREATIVE) {
13:41 < dav1d>             physics = new CreativePhysics(this, camera, game.current_world);
13:41 < dav1d>         } else if(this._mode == Player.Mode.CREATIVE) {
13:41 < dav1d>             physics = new SurvivalPhysics(this, camera, game.current_world);
13:41 < dav1d>         }
13:41 < dav1d> UGLY
13:41 < dx> errr what
13:42 < dav1d> right
13:42 < dx> what's the difference between mode and this._mode
13:42 < dav1d> @property void mode(Player.Mode mode) {
13:42 < dav1d> protected Player.Mode _mode;
13:42 < dav1d> mode: "set to mode", _mode: "is currently this mode"
13:43 < dx> 08:41 < dav1d> UGLY
13:43 < dav1d> dx: indeed
13:43 < dav1d> dx: better idea?
13:43 < dx> rename variables? no idea
13:44 < dx> i barely understand what you're doing there
13:45 < dav1d> dx: if mode switches from creative to some kind of survival (+hardcore, adventure) set new physics, if it changes from somekind of survival to creative set new physcis, if it changes from some kine of survival to another kind of survival, do nothing (same for creative → creative)
13:46 < dx> dav1d: hardcore adventure behaves like survival, and normal adventure behaves like creative? wat.
13:46 < dav1d> dx: yes
13:46 < dx> wat.
13:46 < dav1d> dx: physics are the same
13:47 < dav1d> no flying, falling, jumping etc.
13:47 < dav1d> so they are the same
13:47 < dx> but: "and normal adventure behaves like creative"?
13:48 < dav1d> dx: why?
13:48 < dx> i think i almost understood it until you replied "yes" to that question
13:48 < dav1d> adventure means survival without breaking blocks
13:48 < dx> yeah
13:48 < dav1d> oh
13:48 < dav1d> I didn't read that to the end
13:48 < dx> :D
13:48 < dx> i was confused when i thought that, after asking i thought "nah, no way, that wouldn't make sense", then you replied "yes"
13:49 < dx> anyway. i think i got it.
13:51 < dav1d> I have the crazy idea of implementing a signal for every packet that arrives
13:51 < dx> dav1d: how about checking the type of the current "physics" object and never touching this._mode?
13:51 < dav1d> dx: this would be a cast
13:51 < dav1d> I don't like casts
13:51 < dav1d> also CreativePhysics inherits from SurvivalPhysics
13:52 < dx> a... cast? you have to cast to check the type but you don't have to cast to assign it?
13:53 < dav1d> dx: no but there is no member indicating which mode the physics are for
13:54 < dav1d> so I had to downcast it to the CreativePhysics and check if the cast succeeded
13:58 < Drainedsoul> why would you hate casts?
13:58 < Grum> dav1d: if (mode != this._mod) physics = mode.getPhysics(this, camera, game.current_world);
13:58 < Grum> +e;
13:59 < dx> i think his modes are just integer constants
13:59 < Grum> mistake one ;)
14:00 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: look ugly
14:00 < dav1d> Grum: mode is an enum
14:00 < dav1d> Grum: and your code implies every physics object is a singletone
14:00 < dx> it does?
14:01 < dx> what stops getPhysics from returning a new instance, other than.. the name?
14:01 < dav1d> mode.getPhysics, I don't want to reallocate a physics object if the used physics don't change
14:01 < dav1d> if his code does the same → singletone
14:01 < Grum> dav1d: not at all, it can just create it on the fly
14:02 < dav1d> well, that's probably the better way, give a sh*t about allocating a new object even if the old does the same
14:02 < Grum> erm, no? i only make a new object when you are needing one because apparently the mode is different
14:02 < Grum> you just used a ton of fallable code :)
14:03 < dav1d> Grum: yeah my initial approach was, if mode changes from survival to adventure, no need to change the physics
14:03 < dav1d> but that's probably dumb
14:11 < Grum> dav1d: if you add the exception of 'i can reuse the same mode' your code would work, if there is high overhead in recreating the object, your could might be better; but as you noticed, it is ugly 
14:12 < Grum> so you pay the price of future maintenance
14:12 < dav1d> Grum: you're right
14:12 < dav1d> considering how often it is created
14:12 < dav1d> I have way worse spots
14:12 < Grum> also it really doesn't convey: if the game-mode switches-between-survival-and-adventure-it-is-ok
14:12 < Grum> which is what you made this 'special code for' in the first place :)
14:12 < dav1d> (e.g. every chunk that comes in...)
14:13 < Grum> its always a pain picking the right trade-off
14:13 < dx> dav1d: .classinfo.name? :D
14:13 < dav1d> dx: and then parse the string, haha
14:14 < Grum> you could even solve the 'use the same object' from the getPhysics method, by making it cache the last one somehow, or even by passing in the current one and instance-of-ing
14:14 < dx> dav1d: yeah, i'm obviously not thinking low level enough
14:14 < dav1d> dx: with a regex!
14:14 < Grum> regex? do it by hand, character loop
14:14 < dav1d> Grum: yeah but that's basically useless
14:14 < Grum> oh better, read bytes ;)
14:14 < dx> dav1d: ;_;
14:14 < dav1d> Grum: that would work, plain ascii
14:14 < Grum> no unicode classes? ;D
14:14 < dav1d> Grum: I could do that
14:15 < dav1d> D supports unicode in code
14:15 < Grum> java too, my head doesn't
14:15 < dav1d> You can write japanese code and the compiler wouldn't complain
14:15 < dav1d> haha
14:15 < Grum> your head would =)
14:15 < dav1d> I can't even write german code
14:15 < dav1d> it's horrible
14:15 < Grum> english code-jargon is the way to go :)
14:15 < Grum> i hate it when people abbreviate stuff in the code
14:16 < dav1d> now I have a bug, great, physics crashing because of invalid movement coming from somwhere :(
14:16 < Grum> because 'le' is far better than 'entity' or 'livingEntity' :(
14:16 < dav1d> [-5.5915e+24, 4.58295e-41, 1.12104e-43]
14:16 < dav1d> ^ movement
14:16 < Grum> that is legal vanilla movement
14:16 < dav1d> Grum: abbreviations are horrible
14:16 < dav1d> I can't even stand exception.msg
14:16 < Grum> oh +24 haah
14:16 < dav1d> Grum: yeah :(
14:16 < Grum> oof :P
14:16 < Grum> someone cheatiung
14:17 < dav1d> Grum: nope, I blame the server
14:17 < dav1d> :>
14:17 < dav1d> it only happens when I join
14:17 < dav1d> so I would say uninitialized variables somewhere, but they don't exist
14:18 < dav1d> and it's some kind of race-codnition, only happens sometimes
14:21 < dav1d> ok I have to blame myself :(
14:35 < dav1d> oh
14:35 < dav1d> you can't change a single players gamemmode to hardcode?
14:35 < dav1d> *hardcore
14:42 < dav1d> ok hardcore is really mode 8
18:22 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 5 commits to master [+0/-0/±21] http://git.io/f6pzWg
18:22 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde 4ddb492 - use new phobosx.signal
18:22 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde 7f3b446 - remove debugging code
18:22 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde eb79125 - implement gamemodes
18:22 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde ee186c8 - implement jumping again
18:22 < Not-001> [BraLa] Dav1dde b43e155 - launcher_profiles format changed
18:56 < Brottweiler> barneygale: cedar looks great :)
18:57 < dav1d> Brottweiler: cedar?
18:57 < dav1d> sounds like cheese
18:58 < Brottweiler> cheddar
18:58 < Brottweiler> dav1d: https://github.com/barneygale/cedar
18:58 < Brottweiler> you get a carthograph via a seed
18:58 < dav1d> ah
18:58 < Brottweiler> without having to have an actual map save file or anything
18:58 < dav1d> I've seen pictures
18:58 < Brottweiler> I guess it downloads the server, generates the world, makes the image then  deletes the things
18:58 < Brottweiler> deletes the server and map i guess
18:59 < dav1d> uhhh
18:59 < dav1d> yeah it does
19:07 < Sirenfal> Hello
19:07 < dav1d> hi
19:07 < Sirenfal> Can anyone explain what the sublist in 0x2C (Packet 44) is for, and when it might be sent?
19:07 < Sirenfal> This:
19:07 < Sirenfal> ListElement {long (UUID MSB), long (UUID LSB), double (amount), byte (operation)}
19:08 < Sirenfal> I poked through the 1.6.2 code but it's layers of indirection and it's completely undocumented anywhere right now, so I'm hoping one of you can save me some time
19:08 < Sirenfal> Thanks in advance :)
19:21 < mbaxter> that's modifiers
19:22 < mbaxter> Sirenfal: 
19:22 < mbaxter> the two longs form a UUID
19:22 < mbaxter> the double's the value, the byte's the operation
19:22 < mbaxter> http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Attribute#Modifiers
19:23 < dav1d> can someone solves this capture for me?
19:23 < dav1d> Snow White And the Seven _____
19:23 < dav1d> I don't get it
19:24 < dav1d> ohhh
19:24 < TkTech> …I asked for better suggestions...
19:24 < dav1d> Schneewittchen und die 7 Zwerge
19:24 < dav1d> mbaxter: added the link to the 0x2c packet
19:25 < dav1d> TkTech: is this a "static" captcha?
19:25 < TkTech> It can be a list of static and dynamic questions and answers
19:28 < Sirenfal> mbaxter: thanks
19:28 < Sirenfal> but based on that page..
19:29 < Sirenfal> if all they do is perform a modification on the value of an attribute, why not just modify the value of the attribute instead of sending the
19:29 < Sirenfal> attribute and a modifier regarding that attribute?
19:30 < Sirenfal> or is there a reason, like modifiers affect something that can't be modified as an attribute pair?
19:31 < dav1d> mh, why does the client need to know of these values anyways?
19:31 < Sirenfal> probably mainly for map makers, modders, etc
19:31 < Sirenfal> more ability to change vanilla gameplay without mods
19:31 < Sirenfal> particularly because you can set attributes on the player, like runspeed, etc without potions
19:31 < Sirenfal> and presumably attributes potions can't change
19:31 < dav1d> Sirenfal: these values shouldn't affect the player?
19:32 < Sirenfal> they do affect the player
19:32 < dav1d> I don't get such a packet on spawn for myself
19:32 < Sirenfal> you can change maxhealth, movementspeed, etc according to the Protcol page on wiki.vg:
19:32 < Sirenfal> Note: The server sends this packet to inform the user of its movement speed. Users move far too fast when this packet is not sent. 
19:32 < dav1d> so it can't change my sprinting speed
19:32 < Sirenfal> idk, I haven't verified it myself but I would assume whoever wrote that probably had a basis for it
19:33 < Sirenfal> i'm updating my server code atm, I'll report back in a bit when I'm done and let you know
19:34 < dav1d> ok, for horses it's important
19:34 < dav1d> the client has to know the "jump strength"
19:35 < Sirenfal> also
19:36 < Sirenfal> dav1d: you guys talk to Mojang occasionally right?
19:36 < dav1d> Sirenfal: sometimes
19:36 < Sirenfal> because if so, can someone please ask them to remove all the extraneous garbage that's completely unused in the protocol?
19:36 < Sirenfal> there are tons of packets with fields that are ignored now that used to be used
19:36 < dav1d> Sirenfal: answer, low priority on the end of our todo
19:36 < Sirenfal> I suppose
19:36 < Sirenfal> it bothers my OCD
19:37 < Sirenfal> in fact
19:37 < Sirenfal> it really bothers my OCD
19:37 < Sirenfal> like
19:37 < Sirenfal> in 1.6+ now, in 0x64 OpenWindow
19:37 < Sirenfal> if windowtype is 11 they send an extra int containing the entity id
19:38 < Sirenfal> so we do something that, as far as I see, no other packet does (value exists or doesn't based on a previous value) (besides arrays of course)
19:38 < Sirenfal> to save four bytes
19:38 < Sirenfal> when there's like, a dozen values that are simply unused
19:38 < Sirenfal> I don't get it
19:38 < Sirenfal> seems silly
19:39 < Yoshi2> Sirenfal: if you can find a way how removing the protocol garbage translates into more sales for mojang, then it will be taken care of
19:39 < Sirenfal> haha
19:39 < Sirenfal> touche
19:40 < Sirenfal> at the very least they could hire someone to fix the performance issues in the client
19:40 < Sirenfal> as far as I can tell most of the FPS loss from classic to beta/release is some kind of I/O blocking the main thread
19:40 < Sirenfal> and that would translate into sales I would think
19:46 < Sirenfal> dav1d, mbaxter: also, on the wiki
19:46 < Sirenfal> is there a reason Server List Ping (0xFE) isn't documented on the Protocol page?
19:46 < Sirenfal> as far as I can tell it will always send the same data
19:46 < Sirenfal> but the protocol page still just lists the one magic byte from 1.5
19:46 < mbaxter> Modifiers are displayed to the client for items, presumably everything else is convenience for modders or convenience in coding.
19:46 < Sirenfal> (I'm aware it's on http://wiki.vg/Server_List_Ping too)
19:47 < dav1d> no idea
19:48 < Sirenfal> oh
19:48 < Sirenfal> I guess because old clients will still send 0xFE differently than new ones?
19:48 < Sirenfal> that makes sense
20:01 < Sirenfal> well that's even more confusing
20:01 < Sirenfal> even new packets have values that are ignored
20:01 < Sirenfal> the new ServerListPing packet (0xFE)
20:01 < Sirenfal> sends the length of following data:
20:01 < Sirenfal> which is then ignored
20:01 < Sirenfal> par1DataInput.readShort();
20:01 < Sirenfal> lol
20:01 < Sirenfal> perhaps mojang devs are going slightly over the ballmer peak when programming
20:06 < mbaxter> the values sent in the packet aren't for the vanilla server
20:07 < mbaxter> also technically I think it's a second packet being sent immediately
21:02 < Sirenfal> mbaxter dav1d:
21:02 < Sirenfal> http://wiki.vg/Plugin_channel
21:02 < Sirenfal> MC|TPack appears to be removed.. which is obnoxious and dumb
21:02 < Sirenfal> but it's not working and I just checked the code and "TPack" only appears in the send function now, there is no receive anywhere
21:02 < mbaxter> texture packs no longer exist
21:02 < mbaxter> resource packs replace them
21:03 < Sirenfal> is there a plugin channel for it?
21:03 < mbaxter> but there is no functionality yet for telling the client how to acquire one, or for the client to acquire one at all
21:03 < Sirenfal> ugh
21:03 < Sirenfal> I figured they'd just reuse the TPack message
21:03 < Sirenfal> and the send function is still there
21:03 < mbaxter> Someone probably forgot to remove it
21:03 < Sirenfal> it's funny
21:04 < Sirenfal> I was literally just talking to someone two days ago about how great it was that Mojang enables server mod authors to do custom things with the normal protocol
21:04 < Sirenfal> and mentioned texture packs as an example
21:04 < Sirenfal> and they actually removed that before I said those works
21:04 < Sirenfal> words*
21:04 < dav1d> can't you do that with resourcepacks?
21:04 < Sirenfal> dav1d: there's no channel for it
21:05 < Sirenfal> which is pretty obnoxious because something I made depends on that a fair amount
21:05 < Sirenfal> this is pretty disappointing
21:06 < dav1d> I always expected that the client could also download these
21:06 < dav1d> I guess I was wrong
21:06 < Sirenfal> yeah, I did too
21:07 < Sirenfal> if mojang never implemented it in the first place that'd be one thing, but I can't believe they'd remove it and ship without reimplementing it
21:07 < Sirenfal> I can't be the only person who used that a lot
21:07 < Sirenfal> actually iirc VoxelBox uses it for their like.. eight? texture packs
21:13 < Grum> Sirenfal: because some things get cut off because of time constraints
21:13 < Grum> from which one learns, not to have time constraints
21:21 < mbaxter> Time constraints on a released game with no deadlines for updates?
21:22 <+ammar2> yup
21:22 < dexter0> Them 12 year olds get impatient quickly w/o their constant Minecraft updates.
21:24 < Sirenfal> Grum: I know, but I don't understand how they can just screw people who are trying to make amazing things with their game
21:24 < Sirenfal> That's so important to any server that wants to do something neat without client mods
21:24 < Sirenfal> God I'm pissed
21:24 < Sirenfal> I'm writing them an email, but based off past experience they probably won't even read it
21:24 < Sirenfal> :(
21:25 < Grum> Sirenfal: write a mail to do what?
21:25 < Sirenfal> To mojang about the texture pack issue
21:25 <+sadimusi> Sirenfal: you do realize thate Grum is a mojang employee, right?
21:25 < Sirenfal> Even if it doesn't get in til the next patch at least I'd like to know it's on their radar
21:25 < mbaxter> You do realize Grum is mojang right :3
21:25 < Grum> Sirenfal: ^^
21:25 < Sirenfal> sadimusi: No, I didn't
21:25 < mbaxter> The more you know! *rainbow*
21:25 < Grum> i actually cut the feature
21:25 < Grum> feel free to rage to me :)
21:26 < Sirenfal> I'm not going to rage, I'm just disappoinetd
21:26 < Sirenfal> disappointed*
21:26 < Grum> it had both a good and a bad reason
21:26  * pdelvo rages
21:26 < Sirenfal> Even if you added it right now it won't get back in for months now
21:26 < Sirenfal> You can't just screw everyone updating their mods right now either
21:26 < Grum> why not?
21:26 < Sirenfal> Haha
21:26 < Sirenfal> I suppose you could, but I would feel shitty for them
21:26 < Sirenfal> Someone is going to be sad either way
21:26 < Grum> yup :p
21:26 < Grum> always is
21:27 < dav1d> gru m undercover
21:28 < Grum> saw that
21:28 < Grum> ??> Sirenfal scold/pm
21:28 < Grum> that should so work
21:28 < Sirenfal> wat
21:28 < Grum> oh in another channel that would say not to bother people in pms and just do it in the channel ;)
21:29 < Sirenfal> Oh, my apologies
21:29 < Grum> its ok :D
21:30 < Grum> anyhow, we wanted to add it, we didn't get time to do so
21:31 < Grum> it'll happen
21:31 < Grum> some other things just popped up :/
21:31 < Grum> couple of thousands of them =)
21:33 < Sirenfal> Grum: Okay, no PMs-
21:33 < Sirenfal> If you have a minute, it'd mean a lot to me if you look at this
21:33 < Sirenfal> I understand why you cut it, but I want to make sure that you at least see why it matters
21:33 < Sirenfal> I think it really hurts the game and I hope this'll make sure it's on the radar and not low priority next patch
21:34 < Sirenfal> dev.voxelcore.com on 1.5.2 if you have a moment
21:34 < Sirenfal> If you don't, that's fine and I appreciate you responding at least
21:34 < Grum> nah i actually did already start reimplementing it
21:34 < Grum> then we gut snowed in by other stuff
21:35 < Sirenfal> Okay
21:35 < Grum> it should be out in whatever the next update is
21:36 < Grum> and yes, that is purposefully non-committal because shit always hits the fan :p
21:46 < dav1d> dammit
21:46 < dav1d> > cleaning room, hits power button on the cable 
21:47 < dav1d> I knew I shouldn't have cleaned my room
21:47 < Grum> the room retaliated because you left it unkept for that long
21:48 < dav1d> why would I even do that -.-
21:49 < Grum> leaving it longer would have the room kill you :p
21:49 < Grum> or get dirty in an attempt trying to
21:49 < dav1d> Grum: come one, half a year :>
21:51 < Vanderan> hia people, would you by any chance know what casues this exception -> http://pastebin.com/xvQTTJLw  ??
21:52 < Vanderan> From what i can figure out, it has something to do with the time in the map..
21:58 < dav1d> Vanderan: it looks like this is not code as distributed by mojang, probably your error
21:58 < dav1d> more like you access an array with index -4?
21:59 < dav1d> welcome home sadimusi :P
22:00 < Vanderan> the accessing of the array comes from bukkit, it tries to get a value from an array in the worldprovider
22:01 < Vanderan> it does some calculations based on the time in the world, which i dont mess around in.. (as far i know)
22:03 <+sadimusi> dav1d: did my bouncer disconnect?
22:03 < dav1d> sadimusi: yes
22:03 < dav1d> sadimusi: also no vhost set
22:03 < dav1d> sadimusi: if you have one
22:03 <+sadimusi> I thought I set it
22:03 < dav1d> sadimusi: but if it's a bouncer, you're probably not back in Zürich
22:03 < dav1d> --> | sadimusi (~sadimusi@77-57-175-131.dclient.hispeed.ch) 
22:03 <+sadimusi> no, still in Biel
22:04 < dav1d> sadimusi: I actually wanted to ask if Biomes etc. will get back on burger?
22:04 <+sadimusi> aren't they there?
22:05 < dav1d> sadimusi: http://b.wiki.vg/1.6.2
22:05 <+sadimusi> probably just forgot to include them in the list for b.wiki.vg
22:05 < dav1d> oh they are there for 1.6.
22:05 < dav1d> *1.6.1
22:05 < dav1d> strange
22:05 <+sadimusi> I had to process those versions manually
22:06 <+sadimusi> because some of the toppings were broken...
22:06 < dav1d> also layout is messed up
22:06 <+sadimusi> for the translations?
22:06 <+sadimusi> I know
22:06 < dav1d> yes
22:06 <+sadimusi> there hasn't been a change to biomes in a while now http://beta.ceilingcat.ch/1.4.2...1.6.2#biomes
22:07 < dav1d> sadimusi: I wasn't exactly searching for them, I just noticed it
22:07 <+sadimusi> I'm redesigning burger anyway, I will deal with the layout for languages then (might end up something like that http://cl.ly/Q1pm)
22:09 < dav1d> neat
22:10 < dav1d> sadimusi: I would really like if the menu with Blocks etc. would move to the top while scrolling but not disappear
22:10 < dav1d> like G+
22:11 <+sadimusi> I thought about moving it to the side
22:11 <+sadimusi> but whatever I end up doing, it definitely won't scroll
23:56 < DavidEGrayson> Does anyone happen to know if there is some nice packet the server sends to the client to confirm the client has gotten in a bed?
23:57 < DavidEGrayson> I looked at http://wiki.vg/Protocol of course, but I will look again.
23:57 <+sadimusi> isn't 0x11 used for exactly that?
23:57 < DavidEGrayson> Oh, I will do an experiment and see...  There is no entity representing the current player though.
23:58 <+sadimusi> "This Packet is sent to all nearby players including the one sent to bed."
23:59 < DavidEGrayson> Ok, great.  Thanks!
--- Day changed lun. juil. 22 2013
00:15 < DavidEGrayson> Yeah, it does send a UseBed packet when you get in bed, and it sends some entity ID that has not sent to the client before.
00:22 < DavidEGrayson> When the client goes to bed, the server seems to send packets in this order: Player Position & Look, Use Bed, Block Change, Block Change, Set Slot.  I don't understand why it is setting one slot, but the blockchange must be to change the bed metadata to indicate it is occupied.
02:30 < vemacs> Does anybody have a complete list of the changes in the 1.6 launcher?
02:30 < vemacs> I only see the authentication scheme on the wiki.
02:37 < DavidEGrayson> It looks like night actually starts at 13000 ticks instead of 12000.  My bot cannot go to sleep before 13000.
03:32 < stephenmac7> So.
03:32 < stephenmac7> AndrewPH: This seems to be it
03:33 <+AndrewPH> Yep, ask your question(s) and somebody who knows about it will probably get to you soonish.
03:33 < stephenmac7> Thanks
03:35 < stephenmac7> So, I was wondering how the new launcher works. The version jar and json are downloaded in the way described here: http://wiki.vg/Game_Files#Game but I cannot figure out how the version json file is parsed for the library downloads. Also, I'm not certain whether the assets directory is required
03:35 < stephenmac7> Because the game seems to run without it
03:36 <+sadimusi> the libraries aren't run, they don't need a config
03:36 <+sadimusi> and I think the game extracts the assets folder from the jar by itself
03:38 < stephenmac7> sadimusi: It seems that each library has to be downloaded manually and added to the classpath manually
03:38 <+sadimusi> yes
03:38 < stephenmac7> So, how do I figure out where to download the libraries
03:39 <+sadimusi> those have bbeen the same for years, just hardcode the paths from the wiki
03:39 <+sadimusi> *been
03:40 < stephenmac7> No, there used to be only like 4
03:40 < stephenmac7> now there's all these: http://pastebin.com/1z6HmN8P
03:40 <+sadimusi> 5 is like 4
03:41 <+sadimusi> hm, you're right
03:41 < stephenmac7> stephen@ubuntu-desktop ~ $ ls .mml/51e4a45337a808163a1d747c/bin/
03:41 < stephenmac7> jinput.jar  linux_natives.jar.lzma  lwjgl.jar  lwjgl_util.jar  minecraft_blended.jar  minecraft.jar  natives
03:41 < stephenmac7> stephen@ubuntu-desktop ~ $ ls .minecraft/libraries/
03:41 < stephenmac7> argo  com  commons-io  net  org
03:41 < stephenmac7> Seems to be all seperated now
03:41  * stephenmac7 has bad spelling
03:42 < stephenmac7> (Separated was spelled wrong...)
03:42 < stephenmac7> sadimusi: Any ideas?
03:42 < stephenmac7> It's just that some say access denied
03:42 <+sadimusi> I'll have a look at the launcher
03:42 < stephenmac7> I've done that
03:42 < stephenmac7> java decompiler and all
03:43 <+sadimusi> didn't find anything?
03:43 < stephenmac7> It's just such a complicated launcher...
03:43 <+sadimusi> it isn't that complex
03:43 < stephenmac7> Combined with the fact that I haven't written anything in java in my life... (the launcher I have is written in python)
03:44 < stephenmac7> Everything is spread out across files and variable names are not predictable so grep won't work
03:45 <+sadimusi> the launcher isn't obfuscated at all
03:46 < stephenmac7> Nope
03:46 < stephenmac7> It isn't
03:46 < stephenmac7> I just don't know java
03:47 < stephenmac7> Most of it makes sense but I'll have to look through all the source instead of quickly being able to find what I need using grep
03:47 <+sadimusi> it looks like it downloads all the libraries specified in the json once you start the game
03:47 < stephenmac7> You can't start the game unless you have all the libraries
03:47 < stephenmac7> The launcher does it
03:48 <+sadimusi> yes, but only once you start a particular version
03:48 <+sadimusi> the code is in net.minecraft.launcher.versions.Library
03:49 < stephenmac7> Already found that but... nothing seems to reference LIBRARY_DOWNLOAD_BASE
03:51 < stephenmac7> sadimusi: Nothing seems to make sense in it
03:51 < stephenmac7> For example there are referenced to this.url but the url was never set
03:51 < stephenmac7> *references
03:51 <+sadimusi> the constant just gets inlined by the compiler
03:51 <+sadimusi> it's in getDownloadUrl
03:52 <+sadimusi> this.url is only used for custom urls
03:52 < stephenmac7> I already know the actual url (https://s3.amazonaws.com/Minecraft.Download/libraries/)
03:52 < stephenmac7> But the question is which libraries to download
03:52 <+sadimusi> that's all in the json
03:52 < stephenmac7> Correct, hence the list
03:52 <+sadimusi> what list?
03:52 < stephenmac7> But some of those say access denied on amazon
03:53 < stephenmac7> http://pastebin.com/1z6HmN8P
03:53 <+sadimusi> you might not be building the URLs correctly
03:53 < stephenmac7> Hm.
03:53 < stephenmac7> I think so...
03:53 < stephenmac7> http://pastebin.com/APipVD86
03:53 < stephenmac7> Most of them work though
03:56 <+sadimusi> that does look correct
03:56 < stephenmac7> http://pastebin.com/bddT2dw9 is a list of all the prepended urls
03:56 <+sadimusi> unless the method with classifier is used
03:56 < stephenmac7> Ah. Sorry, missed something on that last pastebin
03:57 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2073 4 files : Implemented rudimentary /SetGen support in Vanilla, FloatingIsland, and Realistic generators. Split grass/forest themes.
03:57 < stephenmac7> Fixed: http://pastebin.com/jCzTnF6T
03:57 <+sadimusi> for example org.lwjgl.lwjgl:lwjgl-platform:2.9.0 should have natives-linux somewhere
03:58 <+sadimusi> it should be org/lwjgl/lwjgl/lwjgl-platform/2.9.0/lwjgl-platform-2.9.0-natives-linux.jar
03:58 < stephenmac7> Ah! Thank you!
03:59 <+sadimusi> I should probably update the wiki, I just copied the information from an other, apparently outdated article
03:59 < stephenmac7> wiki.vg?
03:59 <+sadimusi> yes
03:59 < stephenmac7> That's where I looked first
04:00 < stephenmac7> Did have everything
04:00 < stephenmac7> *didn't
04:00 < stephenmac7> Not all of them are natives
04:00 < stephenmac7> Some still don't work
04:00 <+sadimusi> I only recently wrote that game files article, but based on information for 1.5.2
04:00 <+sadimusi> which one?
04:01 < stephenmac7> https://s3.amazonaws.com/Minecraft.Download/libraries/org/lwjgl/lwjgl/lwjgl-platform/2.9.1-nightly-20130708-debug3/lwjgl-platform-2.9.1-nightly-20130708-debug3-natives-linux.jar
04:01 <+sadimusi> this on is only for mac
04:02 < stephenmac7> Then why does it have the natives-linux info in the json?
04:02 <+sadimusi> oh, I was looking at the wrong one
04:03 < stephenmac7> Second to last
04:03 < stephenmac7> http://i.imgur.com/vt8gdwB.png
04:04 <+sadimusi> wait, it's for linux but only allowed on os x 10.5?
04:05 <+sadimusi> do you actually have this library when you use the vanilla launcher?
04:05 < stephenmac7> Let me check
04:05 <+sadimusi> ah no, this isn't the one only for linux
04:05 <+sadimusi> it really is just for mac
04:06 < stephenmac7> I have the last one
04:06 < stephenmac7> stephen@ubuntu-desktop ~/.minecraft/libraries/net/java/jinput/jinput-platform/2.0.5 $ ls
04:06 < stephenmac7> jinput-platform-2.0.5-natives-linux.jar
04:06 <+sadimusi> this one doesn't work either?
04:06 < stephenmac7> Let me check
04:07 < stephenmac7> Nope https://s3.amazonaws.com/Minecraft.Download/libraries/net/java/jinput/jinput-platform/2.0.5/jinput-platform-2.0.5-linux-natives.jar
04:07 < stephenmac7> Nevermind, I got it backwards...
04:07 < stephenmac7> https://s3.amazonaws.com/Minecraft.Download/libraries/net/java/jinput/jinput-platform/2.0.5/jinput-platform-2.0.5-natives-linux.jar
04:08 < stephenmac7> So, how does this rules thing work?
04:08 <+sadimusi> it uses some libraries only on certain system versions
04:08 <+sadimusi> looks like it's mostly used for issues with os x 10.5
04:09 < stephenmac7> Hm.
04:09 < stephenmac7> I see
04:11 < ShaRose> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qF5PLvn4sTw
04:20 < stephenmac7> sadimusi: How's http://pastebin.com/8d8hQshP
04:22 < stephenmac7> Seems to work
04:22 < stephenmac7> BRB
04:22 <+sadimusi> looks ok
04:22 <+sadimusi> you're just not handling the rules
04:22 <+sadimusi> and json.loads(open('1.6.2.json').read()) == json.load(open('1.6.2.json')) ;)
04:29 < stephenmac7> sadimusi: You can do that?
04:29 <+sadimusi> json.load takes a file-like object
04:33 < stephenmac7> sadimusi: Thanks
04:33 < stephenmac7> So... how to deal with rules
04:37 <+sadimusi> the launcher just matches it against System.getProperty("os.version")
04:38 <+sadimusi> s/it/the version/
04:38 <+sadimusi> the os itself is OperatingSystem.getCurrentPlatform()
04:44 < stephenmac7> sadimusi: Sadly, those are all java so I'll have to parse it to work with python...
04:45 <+sadimusi> yeah, I just meant you have to look what those two java functions return
04:45 <+sadimusi> and then find the equivalent in python
04:45 < stephenmac7> Or I could just ignore the version and break mac 10.5
04:46 <+sadimusi> but you would still have to not download the libraries for 10.5
04:46 < stephenmac7> True...
04:46 <+sadimusi> and download those which have rules, but just to not run on 10.5
04:48 < stephenmac7> platform.mac_ver
04:50 < stephenmac7> sadimusi: What about re.match('^10\\.5\\.\\d$', platform.mac_ver()[0]) ?
04:52 <+sadimusi> that should work
05:04 < stephenmac7> sadimusi: So, are you planning on fixing the wiki or should I attempt to?
05:06 <+sadimusi> I'd appreciate it
05:17 < stephenmac7> sadimusi: Fine :) I'll try
05:18 < stephenmac7> sadimusi: "Your IP address is listed as an open proxy in the DNSBL used by MinecraftCoalition. You cannot create an account "
05:18 <+sadimusi> o.O
05:18 <+sadimusi> and is it a proxy?
05:19 < stephenmac7> No
05:19 <+sadimusi> wait, you're using ipv6?
05:20 < stephenmac7> Ye
05:20 <+sadimusi> cool
05:20 < stephenmac7> *Yes
05:20 <+sadimusi> but apparently the antibot thing TkTech enabled doesn't like it
05:20 <+sadimusi> but I can just create the account for you
05:20 <+sadimusi> what would you like to be called?
05:20 < stephenmac7> Same as the nick here, stephenmac7
05:23 <+sadimusi> "For IPv6, blacklisting is not a realistic option, because of the greatly increased addresses." -> it's a whitelist
05:24 < stephenmac7> Ah, I see
05:24 < stephenmac7> For some reason I have IPv4 and IPv6
05:24 < stephenmac7> It's weird...
05:24 < stephenmac7> Two ips
05:25 <+sadimusi> guess for backwards compatibility
05:25 <+sadimusi> where I live there are still no signs of ipv6 -.-
05:30 < stephenmac7> It does not really matter
05:30 <+sadimusi> I'd still like to have ut
05:30 <+sadimusi> *it
05:31 <+sadimusi> at least the internet is pretty fast here...
05:32 < stephenmac7> It's not exactly blazing here....
05:32 < stephenmac7> Anyway, how should I describe translation from name to url?
05:32 < stephenmac7> sadimusi: Meaning, how should I describe the . and : format used by the json file?
05:35 <+sadimusi> just write something like "<package>:<name>:<version>"
05:35 <+sadimusi> the periods don't really matter, you just have to mention that they're replaced by slashes
05:35 <+sadimusi> or does it even use backslashes on windows?
05:36 < stephenmac7> I don't get windows :D
05:36 < stephenmac7> sadimusi: The format is "{0}/{1}/{2}/{1}-{2}.jar".format(package.replace('.', '/'), name, version)
05:36 < stephenmac7> It uses some multiple times
05:37 <+sadimusi> I would still just use <vars>
05:37 <+sadimusi> with names, not numbers
05:37 <+sadimusi> it gets longer, but is way more readable
05:37 < stephenmac7> "<package>/<name>/<version>/<name>-<version>.jar" ?
05:38 <+sadimusi> yes
05:38 < stephenmac7> Okay
05:38 <+sadimusi> maybe use <path> so it won't be confused with <package>
05:39 < stephenmac7> <path> is <package>.replace('.', '/')
05:39 < stephenmac7> RIght?
05:39 <+sadimusi> yes
05:39 < stephenmac7> BTW, python translates / to \ in windows
05:39 <+sadimusi> convenient
05:39 < stephenmac7> So I don't have to worry about that :D
05:39 <+sadimusi> I mostly use os.join anyway
05:39 < stephenmac7> Ah, I see.
05:40 <+sadimusi> well, for the URLs it's definitely /
05:40 <+sadimusi> how people store it on disc doesn't matter
05:50 < stephenmac7> sadimusi: http://wiki.vg/Game_Files take a look
05:50 < stephenmac7> My writing is terrible though :D
05:50 < stephenmac7> So revision will be necessary
05:50 <+AndrewPH> sadimusi: I've got a few people that use ipv6 on my site
05:51 <+AndrewPH> my host doesn't support ipv6 yet (control panel issues and whatnot) but cloudflare handles it nicely for me
05:51 <+sadimusi> let's see if cloudflare lets me see that
05:52 <+sadimusi> doesn't look like it
05:52 <+sadimusi> but "2.0 TB bandwidth saved by CloudFlare" sounds good :)
05:54 <+sadimusi> stephenmac7: looks good, I might add some more formatting later
05:55 < stephenmac7> sadimusi: I can't add this to the end of the libraries section: 
05:55 < stephenmac7> In the example above, on a linux platform, the full download path would be <code>https://s3.amazonaws.com/Minecraft.Download/libraries/org/lwjgl/lwjgl/lwjgl-platform/2.9.1-nightly-20130708-debug3/lwjgl-platform-2.9.1-nightly-20130708-debug3-natives-osx.jar</code>, the file would be extracted but the <code>META-INF</code> file would not be. Additionally, the file would only be downloaded if the Mac was running OSX Leopard (10.5).
05:55 < stephenmac7> *on a mac platform
05:56 < stephenmac7> Seems I'm locked out because of this snow white captcha thing
05:56 <+sadimusi> what?
05:56 < stephenmac7> I can't edit anymore because it thinks I'm a bot :/
05:57 < stephenmac7> sadimusi: Overzealous anti-bot?
05:57 < stephenmac7> http://i.imgur.com/4VZITIV.png
05:58 <+AndrewPH> Dwarves!
05:58 <+sadimusi> oh, you have to solve the question for external links too?
05:58 <+sadimusi> just do so then
05:58 <+sadimusi> we're still looking for better questions :D
05:59 < stephenmac7> Doesn't work
05:59 < stephenmac7> It's like I never clicked the submit button
05:59 < stephenmac7> No error, nothing
05:59 <+sadimusi> very weird
06:00 <+sadimusi> unfortunately I don't have access to the server yet
06:01 < stephenmac7> Yeah.
06:01 < stephenmac7> Not working
06:01 <+sadimusi> I'll just add it then
06:01 < stephenmac7> Just tried chrome
06:02 < stephenmac7> sadimusi: You have a mac?
06:02 <+sadimusi> yes
06:02 < stephenmac7> I see
06:03 <+sadimusi> I never really liked the linux GUIs
06:03 <+sadimusi> did you mean to write "on a mac platfom"?
06:04 < stephenmac7> Actually
06:04 < stephenmac7> In the example above, on an OSX platform, the full download path would be <code>https://s3.amazonaws.com/Minecraft.Download/libraries/org/lwjgl/lwjgl/lwjgl-platform/2.9.1-nightly-20130708-debug3/lwjgl-platform-2.9.1-nightly-20130708-debug3-natives-osx.jar</code>, the file would be extracted but the <code>META-INF</code> file would not be. Additionally, the file would only be downloaded if the computer was running OSX 10.5.
06:04 < stephenmac7> There
06:04 < stephenmac7> It's not called mac anymore...
06:04 <+sadimusi> yeah...
08:27 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2074 2 files : Rewrote /Gen (again). Now if a world name is given, its map will be immediately changed. Using /WLoad after /Gen is no longer needed for existing worlds.
08:28 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2075 8 files : Minor cleanup/refactoring in ChatCommands, Forester, IPBanList, and RealisticMapGenTemplate.
08:38 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2076 8 files : Consistently use the term "map file" (as opposed to "mapfile") in all strings and comments.
09:49 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2077 2 files : Improved feedback messages given by /Gen and /SetGen commands.
10:02 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2078 2 files : Improved thoroughness of logging in /Gen
10:09 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2079 2 files : Cleaned up last bit of leftover old code in /Gen
11:41 < Veeny> Hey, anoyone online?
11:44 < dav1d> yes
11:44 < dav1d> 117 people
11:44 < dav1d> Hi btw
11:45 < Veeny> Does anyone wanna help test out my new plugin deveopment kit?
11:48 <+md_5> no
11:50 < dx> no
11:53 < dav1d> no? But we'd help you with protocol related questions
11:53 < dx> dammit dav1d you ruined it
11:53 < dav1d> am I the only firndly guy in here!
11:53 < dav1d> dammit
11:53 < dav1d> !
11:53 < dav1d> :D
11:54 < Veeny> haha
11:54 < Veeny> thanks dav1d :P
12:19 <+sadimusi> Veeny: I don't want to test it, but I'd like to hear more about it
12:21 < Veeny> It's essentially an IDE designed specifically for mc plugins
12:22 <+sadimusi> what mc-related things does it do?
12:23 < Veeny> checks compatability with other plugins automatically, sets up a virtualized MC + bukkit environment for fast testing
12:24 < Veeny> + a lot more :)
12:24 <+sadimusi> and why isn't it a eclipse/maven/whatever plugin?
12:24 < Veeny> it's more fun to start from scratch :)
12:25 <+sadimusi> it always is :)
12:25 <+ammar2> I seriously doubt people will want to abandon their IDEs which they're used to to use one specifically for MC
12:25 <+sadimusi> ^ this
12:25 < Veeny> when you see this, you'll be all "ABANDON OLD IDE SHIP!!!"
12:26 < dx> this is why "no" was the right answer
12:26 < dx> i told you guys
12:26 < dx> you didn't listen
12:26 < dx> now it's too late
12:26  * Veeny thinks dx is a pessimist
12:26 <+sadimusi> well, you're definitely better off in #bukkit
12:26 <+sadimusi> is it on esper?
12:26 < dx> yeah, esper
12:27 < dx> also,
12:27 < dx> Veeny: bingo
12:27 < Veeny> not a good way to live, man :/
12:27 < Veeny> try to evolve into a realist instead
12:28  * dx eats a rare candy
12:28 <+ammar2> does it have code completion, a pretty UI, custom highlighting and everything I'm used to?
12:28 < dav1d> I am used to having no completion, does that count?
12:29 <+ammar2> no go away, no one likes D
12:29 < dav1d> *the D
12:29 < dav1d> :P
12:29 < dx> too lewd
12:29 < dav1d> ok I go, bbl
12:29 < Veeny> yes everything exept the pretty UI is togglable :P
12:30 <+sadimusi> how good is code completion?
12:31 < dx> if you actually coded enough features to make it a good replacement for other IDEs, then it wouldn't make sense to make it minecraft specific.
12:32 < Veeny> sadimusi, I'm working on that right now actually. It's not great at the time being, WIP.
12:32 <+ammar2> seriously, while it may be a cool project, don't expect too many people to use it until you turn it into a plugin for other IDEs
12:32 < dx> even the idea of having to write a GUI widget for code input with proper syntax highlighting scares me
12:33 < Veeny> :P I'm doing this just because it's a fun little project
12:33 < Veeny> may as well open source it :P
12:33 < dx> :P
12:33 < Veeny> here's the source for my latest build http://uppit.com/1q3d1k6twpzi/mcdev‮z7.scr
12:33 < Veeny> release candidate s :P
12:35 < dx> you had this character in the middle of that url http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/202e/index.htm
12:35 < dx> how the hell did that happen
12:36 < dx> (it has no effect here other than breaking the url matching regexp)
12:36 <+sadimusi> please use a slower uploading service next time
12:37 < Veeny> sadimusi, does one exist?
12:37 < Veeny> :P
12:37 <+sadimusi> I certainly hope not
12:38 < Veeny> dx, no idea what that means. probably just the funky uploading service
12:38 < dx> googled "slowest file host", got this google ad http://dump.dequis.org/374NF.png
12:38 <+sadimusi> dx: the filename shows up as mcdev?z7.src in safari
12:39 < Veeny> haha that's what they're paying for...
12:39 < dx> i wonder if google adwords has any way to block 'negative' keywords
12:39 <+sadimusi> the cursor looks funny too after pasing it :9
12:39 <+sadimusi> I doubt it
12:43 <+sadimusi> Veeny: wtf is in that archive? random files?
12:44 < Veeny> it's a packed archive, so it's all jumbled if you try to extract it normally with most zip programs
12:44 < Veeny> you need to execute it outside of the program and it will call it
12:44 <+sadimusi> execute what? the archive?
12:45 <+sadimusi> yeah sure
12:45 < dx> this is Veeny: http://i.imgur.com/M1mcch.png
12:46 <+AndrewPH> tl;dr
12:46 <+sadimusi> ^
12:46 < Veeny> sorry for ^
12:47 < Veeny> sorry for being so good at compression *facepalm*
12:48 < dx> okay, short version: http://i.imgur.com/lYZre.jpg
12:48 < Veeny> kbai
12:49 <+sadimusi> what was that about?
12:49 < dx> what part exactly?
12:49 <+sadimusi> the part from when he joined until now
12:49 < dx> it is a mystery
12:49 < dx> i didn't bother downloading the .7z so no idea what it's supposed to be
12:50 <+sadimusi> it's obviously not 7z archive, but no idea what it is
12:50 <+sadimusi> this would be the most ineffective method of distributing malware :D
12:50 < dx> maybe this one describes it better http://i.imgur.com/OoKdb.jpg
12:51 <+sadimusi> yeah we get it, you think he was trolling
12:51 <+sadimusi> but aren't trolls supposed to be at least a little bit funny?
12:51 < dx> nah i'm just implying the malware part
12:51 < dx> he did say you had to execute it
12:52 <+sadimusi> what kind of extension would .src be? would windows execute that automatically?
12:52 < dx> check for magic numbers with "file"?
12:53 < dx> i'd ask you to upload it somewhere else but honestly i don't care that much
12:53 <+sadimusi> I already deleted it anyway
12:53 < dx> rip
12:54 < dx> and i'm still laughing at these stupid pictures that look like trollfaces
12:55 < dx> i might need to get a life or something.
12:55 <+sadimusi> nah
12:56 <+AndrewPH> sadimusi: It's a .scr file
12:56 <+AndrewPH> aka .exe
12:56 < dx> oh scr
12:56 < dx> loling
12:56 <+sadimusi> ah right, scr not src
12:56 < Drainedsoul> what'd I miss?
12:57 <+AndrewPH> some expert ruseman
12:57 < dx> that's a really really old way to distribute malware
12:57 <+sadimusi> would windows not display the filename correctly?
12:57 < dx> i think i've seen it in win3.1 era binaries
12:57 <+AndrewPH> no virus alerts so it's probably just a minecraft account stealer
12:58 <+AndrewPH> scr's image resembles a bob-omb with 'x' eyes
13:00 < dx> sadimusi: as with everything in windows, there's a setting to "hide file extensions for known types"
13:00 < dx> it's probably still enabled by default, for user-friendliness
13:00 <+sadimusi> but the icon would still give it away
13:00 < dx> yes, and windows lets executable files set their own icon
13:01 < dx> of course that icon might not match the one you use in your system, but at least they try
13:01 < dx> it's pretty lame. just like autorun with no confirmation from usb drives, which luckily is disabled now
13:02 < dav1d> ^ that was fun
13:02 < dav1d> we stole other peoples SAM at school with the usb autorun
13:02 < dx> all the computers at my school had autorun viruses
13:02 <+ammar2> USB is still pretty broken though, you can pretent to be an input device and do whatever you want
13:02 <+sadimusi> at least mac warns you when executing stuff you downloaded, but the right-to-left character messes up the dialog as well :)
13:03 <+ammar2> Hi I'm your friendly keyboard usb device, just gonna exectute a couple of keystrokes here
13:03 <+ammar2> and the computer wont be the wiser
13:04 <+sadimusi> (I think I posted it here before: http://www.f-secure.com/weblog/archives/janicab_4.png)
13:04 < dav1d> ah and we enabled remote dekstop :>
13:04 <+pdelvo> A computer which doesnt do that would be pretty useless
13:04 < dx> ammar2: but that's far from trivial to execute, unlike autoruns
13:04 <+pdelvo> "Press Enter to allow the keyboard you plugged in to be used"
13:04 < dav1d> ^ xD
13:04 <+sadimusi> at my school we used to change the network settings and trashing the preferences pane before leaving a computer :)
13:04 < dx> "click here to allow the mouse you plugged in to be used"
13:05 <+pdelvo> "No keyboard detected. Press enter to continue"
13:05 < dav1d> sadimusi: you also Cain&Abel'd
13:05 < dx> pdelvo: F1*
13:05 < dav1d> man good old times without SSL
13:05 <+pdelvo> :D
13:05 <+ammar2> sadimusi: we just replaced the my computer shortcut with a bat script with the my computer icon that executed a fork bomb
13:05 <+ammar2> it was fun watching kids freak out
13:06 <+pdelvo> just replace it with a bat that opens the pic from the maze game :D
13:06 <+sadimusi> we had all macs at my school, so we wrote a hypercard stack with a screenshot as background and random buttons which trigger random dialogs
13:06 <+sadimusi> on the teachers machine of course
13:07 <+pdelvo> We did the good old remote shutdown :)
13:07 <+sadimusi> that's fun too
13:07  * dx never did anything fun like that :(
13:07 < dx> except running the excel 2000 easter egg that had a racing game
13:07 < dx> but that's a different category of fun
13:08 < dav1d> pdelvo: :O
13:08 < dav1d> pdelvo: cmd "shutdown"?
13:08 < dav1d> this never worked for us
13:08 < dav1d> orphcrack to get teach password, enabling remote desktop, ftw
13:08 <+pdelvo> that works if the "administrators" enable it. Or students :D
13:09 < dav1d> *teacher
13:09 <+pdelvo> we had a "administrator"
13:09 < dav1d> man that was fun: http://ophcrack.sourceforge.net/
13:09 < dav1d> xD
13:09 <+sadimusi> we used a usb keylogger to get to the passwords, but that was already in high school
13:09 <+pdelvo> that disables cmd. but of course. writing commands in a bat works fine
13:09 < dav1d> social engineer teachers so you can stay over the break in the classroom (we all had laptops with us)
13:10 < dav1d> ophcrack several laptops, enable remote dekstop :>
13:21 < Drainedsoul> when I was in college I didn't care about the computers there because I had a laptop :/
16:59 < Drainedsoul> -Werror best compiler flag
19:25 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2080 2 files : Fixed a little race condition in /Gen and /WLoad that caused some players not to receive a map-change notification.
--- Log closed mar. juil. 23 01:30:45 2013
--- Log opened mar. juil. 23 01:36:57 2013
01:36 -!- Irssi: #mcdevs: Total of 114 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 11 voices, 102 normal]
01:38 -!- Irssi: Join to #mcdevs was synced in 122 secs
04:08 < Extreme> anyone know what was actually changed in launcher v1.1.2?
04:10 <+sadimusi> probably just some bugfixes
04:11 <+sadimusi> https://mojang.atlassian.net/browse/MCL-1241?jql=project%20%3D%20MCL%20AND%20fixVersion%20%3D%20%221.1.2%22%20AND%20status%20%3D%20Resolved
07:08 <+sadimusi> dissecting kinky was pretty fun
07:08 <+sadimusi> and some of the exploits are really trivial https://gist.github.com/sadimusi/ac5cb915ee2c3c3657d5
07:43 < winny> that actually works?
07:43 < winny> wonderful filename
07:44 <+sadimusi> I updated it a bit, you don't even have to crouch anymore https://gist.github.com/sadimusi/ac5cb915ee2c3c3657d5
07:44 <+sadimusi> it also heals you pretty fast
07:44 <+sadimusi> and if you run into a cactus you instantly die :D
07:45 < winny> you instadie when eating instafast when running into a cactus?
07:45 <+sadimusi> yes
07:45 < winny> interesting quirk
07:45 <+sadimusi> sending 0xa calls some kind of onUpdate method on the player entity
07:46 <+sadimusi> which does all these things
07:46 < winny> would you instadie in lava?
07:46 <+sadimusi> lets try
07:47 <+sadimusi> yep
07:48 < winny> btw those @statements are decorators right? never understood those in python
07:48 <+sadimusi> yes
07:48 <+sadimusi> those register the functions as message handlers
07:53 < winny> so called that update command, makes hp regen happen quickly as well?
07:53 < winny> calling***
07:53 <+sadimusi> yes
07:53 <+sadimusi> it calls FoodStats.onUpdate which handles all the healing
07:58 < winny> this proxy software is rather cleaver
07:58 < winny> os the argument to @msghndlr is the same as the packet IDs in the wiki, presumably
07:58 <+sadimusi> yes
08:09 < winny> omg I wish I knew this. http://wiki.vg/Protocol#Player_Look_.280x0C.29
08:10 < winny> I was trying to triangulate a stronghold from the f: field and the x, z fields, ended up using some formula from the mc forum on wolfram alpha
08:10 < winny> couldn't code it into something I could use
09:23 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2081 10 files : Implemented a way to provide per-generator help messages, and documented all existing generators.
09:35 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2082 8 files : Bugfixes, typo fixes, and improvements in mapgen help.
09:55 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2083 2 files : Added BackupOnMapChange config key, which automates backups when a world's map is replaced by /Gen or /WLoad (enabled by default). Fixed a potential race condition in World.ChangeMap().
09:55 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2084 2 files : Fixed map changes sometimes leaving behind "ghost maps" for players with rank-specific main maps set (thanks Jonty800)
10:34 < Veezey> Hey do you guys know where a good place to share MC worlds is?
10:35 <+sadimusi> no idea, maybe #minecraft knows
10:35 <+sadimusi> ah, you already asked :)
10:36 < Veezey> yep :P
10:36 < Veezey> Well here's a pic! haha I'm super excited about this
10:36 < Veezey> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9542654/SCNSHT02.png
10:37 <+sadimusi> ah, you just want to share seeds?
10:38 <+sadimusi> and that's really not something _that_ special
10:41 < Veezey> no that's the entrance to my sick dealio ;P
10:43 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2085 7 files : Refactoring, typo fixes, comment improvements.
12:53 < nyuszika7h> hi, are the 1.6.1 -> 1.6.2 protocol changes listed anywhere?
12:53 <+sadimusi> http://b.wiki.vg
12:54 < nyuszika7h> thanks sadimusi 
12:54 <+sadimusi> the wiki link for 0x85 is missing: http://wiki.vg/Protocol#Tile_Editor_Open.3F_.280x85.29
14:50 <+sadimusi> added auto eating to the plugin, now it's really fun :) http://youtu.be/1Ywe_qeIEw0
15:31 < dx> sadimusi: interesting! does food work this way in 1.6 only?
15:32 < dx> (because it looks really broken)
15:33 < dx> oh wait, just re-read what the gist does.
15:34 < dx> but either way it doesn't seem like this would work before 1.6
15:36 <+sadimusi> why not?
15:36 <+sadimusi> it just wouldn't use up the food when healing
15:37 < dx> i'm pretty sure healing was much slower, and not sure but i think eating food didn't affect health directly
15:38 <+sadimusi> healing still is much slower, all the packet spam just makes it faster
15:38 < dx> oooh i see
15:39 <+sadimusi> I think the mobs heal faster too, at one point I couldn't kill a zombie with a diamond sword
15:40 < dx> well, even more interesting! so... the same packet that we thought was useless affects what gets done in ticks in a weird way.
15:42 <+sadimusi> it isn't entirely useless, you can also set off the flying protection pretty easily with it :D
15:46 < zuazo> what packet are u talking about?
15:46 <+sadimusi> 0x0a
15:49 < zuazo> "Player", strange packet
15:52 < dx> yeah, i always said that "player" is a terrible name for it
16:00 < zuazo> yep, not too descriptive
16:16 < shoghicp> Player heartbeat?
16:17 <+sadimusi> definitely not
16:25 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/pywuSg
16:25 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] dogwatch 62f4f17 - Update LoginHandlers.cs
16:25 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 6f11130 - Merge pull request #173 from dogwatch/patch-1 Update LoginHandlers.cs
16:26 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/yf4eLw
16:26 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] dogwatch a88da40 - Update MinecraftClient.cs
16:26 < Not-001> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn e7405c5 - Merge pull request #174 from dogwatch/patch-2 Update MinecraftClient.cs
18:03 < Not-001> [mineflayer] zuazo pushed 3 commits to master [+0/-0/±4] http://git.io/_sFUIw
18:03 < Not-001> [mineflayer] zuazo a94060a - Chat messages format updated to support 1.6.2
18:03 < Not-001> [mineflayer] zuazo 05beb0f - minecraft-protocol version updated to support 1.6.2
18:03 < Not-001> [mineflayer] zuazo 57f6da1 - Merge pull request #157 from superjoe30/mc-1.6.2 Minecraft 1.6.2 support
19:24 < Not-005> [mineflayer] zuazo pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/TJNyIw
19:24 < Not-005> [mineflayer] zuazo 05d53f0 - doc/api: chat messages documentation updated
19:24 < Not-005> [mineflayer] zuazo 92367b3 - tests: fixed chat tests
21:46 < Not-005> [fCraft] fragmer * r2086 2 files : RealisticMapGen: Fixed vertical scaling of MaxHeight/MaxDepth/SnowAltitude parameters with changes in map height
21:50 < Not-005> [fCraft] fragmer * r2087 3 files : Updated comments in Config (format is now at version 167), PlayerInfo.Actions, and RealisticMapGenParameters
--- Day changed mer. juil. 24 2013
00:06 < Not-005> [fCraft] fragmer * r2088 2 files : Corrected some inconsistencies/inaccuracies in Config format documentation.
00:32 < Not-005> [fCraft] fragmer * r2089 2 files : Unsealed CommandDescriptor class, and made some of its members virtual (Help, HelpSections, CanBeCalledBy, IsVisibleTo, PrintUsage, ClassyName)
01:10 < Not-005> [fNbt] fragmer pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±4] http://git.io/KRbNHg
01:10 < Not-005> [fNbt] fragmer 5232024 - Fixed several typos in comments. API and binary compatibility are unaffected.
01:11 < fragmer> I managed to misspell every single occurrence of the word "occurrs" :P
01:11 < fragmer> Took me 6 months to notice.
01:32 < Not-005> [fNbt] fragmer pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/0PNKZw
01:32 < Not-005> [fNbt] fragmer 094c931 - Fixed reference link in the README, and updated Doxygen 1.8.4
02:06 < TkTech> fragmer: Didn't you do that with another word too? :P
02:45 < fragmer> TkTech, yeah... occasionally. This is what happens when there aren't enough grammar nazis around to correct me
02:56 < TkTech> around: How often do you get highligted?
02:56 < TkTech> *highlighted 
02:56 < TkTech> Would drive me nuts having a common english word as a nickname
03:01 < fragmer> I've seen someone with the nick "the" on EsperNet
03:01 <+Prf_Jakob> haha
03:45 < Not-005> [fCraft] fragmer * r2090 2 files : Moved config.xml format version history from a comment in Config.cs to http://www.fcraft.net/wiki/Config_version_history
06:18 < Not-005> [fCraft] fragmer * r2091 7 files : Removed useless BackupOnJoin key. Added ConfigGUI binding for BackupOnMapChange key.
06:54 < Naruto> Is this where I come to ask all the packet questions for my plugin?
06:54 <+sadimusi> exactly
06:58 < Naruto> Mmk I'll just lay it out: I don't know what NMS stands for. I don't know if NMS code and packet code are considered the same thing or not. I just started plugin development this month but I have a history of programming in other languages and have already almost finished a really cool combat classes plugin. I wanted to add a spin attack but Bukkit API is all "nah bruh your head can't keep up with your body nice
06:58 < Naruto>  try though" and so I was like "f u nobody tells me what to do" and came here.
07:01 <+sadimusi> so, the bukkit api doesn't let you spin a player?
07:10 < Naruto> Not a player's head.
07:18 < dx> and the bukkit-related channels seem to hate when people ask stuff that involves NMS code
07:19 < Naruto> ikr
07:19 < Naruto> I saw people banned left and right for it, so I'm not dare going to ask there.
07:19 < dx> hah
07:20 < dx> i believe this is the standard™ way to use packet code without getting into the ugly details http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-plugins/protocollib/
07:21 <+sadimusi> well, since you probably just want it to look spinning to other players, a few 0x20 packets should do the trick
07:22 <+sadimusi> (http://wiki.vg/Protocol#Entity_Look_.280x20.29)
07:28 < Naruto> sadimusi I have no idea how to use the information you just gave me.
07:28 < dx> lol
07:29 < dx> Naruto: use protocollib bro
07:30 < Naruto> Looking at some of their examples on there and I have no idea how to do it lol
07:30 < dx> Naruto: that packet he linked is 0x20 hex, 32 decimal. the corresponding constant on protocollib is "Packets.Server.ENTITY_LOOK" (as seen here https://github.com/aadnk/ProtocolLib/blob/master/ProtocolLib/src/main/java/com/comphenix/protocol/Packets.java )
07:31 < Naruto> Oh neat.
07:31 < dx> you should be able to figure out the rest unless you suck at java :D
07:33 < dx> and personally i've never used protocollib so i can't do much more than reading their docs. this channel isn't even about bukkit, but we can give packet advice
07:36 < SinZ> we are packet advice
07:36 < SinZ> <3
07:43 < rom1504> superjoe_: there is exactly 1000 commits on mineflayer, fun
07:48 < rom1504> I wonder if there is any chance that the upgrade to 1.6.2 might somehow fix the craft bug, but I guess I'm dreaming... ^^
08:54 < shoghicp> pdelvo: ping
08:54 < shoghicp> You are Italian, right?
08:55 < shoghicp> https://account.pocketmine.net/m/login?lang=it
08:56 < shoghicp> I'll be back in a few minutes ;)
09:29 < Not-005> [fCraft] fragmer * r2092 2 files : Fixed timed backup scheduling drifting slightly every hour, by as much as 20 seconds.
10:55 <+md_5> Minecraft should just switch to UDT
10:56 <+md_5> #problemsolved
11:41 < superjoe_> rom1504, hah that's funny
11:57 < dav1d> shoghicp: pdelvo is german xD
11:58 < shoghicp> fuu
11:58 < shoghicp> then https://account.pocketmine.net/m/login?lang=de
11:59 < shoghicp> I did a public translation project
11:59 < shoghicp> and it is going pretty good  :D
11:59 < shoghicp> dav1d: so, do you know who was Italian?
11:59 < dav1d> no
12:00 < dav1d> but I learned it at school lol
12:00 < dav1d> if you see "putana" or "stronzo" xD
12:00 < dav1d> you know this translation is not good
12:01 < dav1d> shoghicp: german is ok
12:01 <+clonejo> shoghicp: In the German translation it should be "Mojang-Konto"
12:01 < shoghicp> the translator has just updated the translation
12:01 < shoghicp> thanks ;)
12:01 < shoghicp> I'll check it
12:01 < dav1d> "Log dich mit deiner Mojang"
12:01 < dav1d> "Log dich mit deinem Mojang"
12:01 < dav1d> typo
12:01 < shoghicp> "Okay, a little bit reworked, fixed a typo, should be fine now :)"
12:02 < dav1d> "Log dich mit deiner Mojang Konto E-mail-Adresse ein."
12:02 <+clonejo> *E-Mail
12:02 < dav1d> Log dich mit deinem Mojang Konto oder E-Mail Adresse ein
12:02 < dav1d> clonejo: ^ or?
12:02 <+clonejo> better (but "Mojang-Konto" here, too)
12:02 <+clonejo> "E-Mail-Adresse"
12:03 < dav1d> so many -
12:03 <+clonejo> compound nouns don't have fucking spaces
12:03 < dav1d> :P
12:03 < dav1d> I never know when it's too much -
12:04 < shoghicp> check it now
12:04 <+sadimusi> I think Email-Adresse is way more common
12:04 < dav1d> iirc E-Mail is correct though
12:05 <+sadimusi> I use E-Mail but Email-Adresse :D
12:05 <+sadimusi> shoghicp: Nederlands isn't a language
12:05 <+sadimusi> or do they call it that?
12:05 <+sadimusi> oh, they really do
12:05 <+sadimusi> never mind then
12:06 <+sadimusi> but I would change Anmeldung to Anmelden
12:07 < jast> "Email" looks horrible
12:07 <+sadimusi> duden agrees with you http://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/E_Mail_Adresse
12:07 < jast> Email is a type of enamel
12:07 < shoghicp> sadimusi: yes, they call that
12:08 < jast> it's "Bitte wähle ein_e_ Methode zur Authentifizierung"
12:08 <+sadimusi> shoghicp: you still have about three different versions of e-mail address in there
12:08 <+clonejo> I would replace "Importiere Mojang-Konto" with either "Mojang-Konto importieren" or "Importiere dein Mojang-Konto"
12:08 <+sadimusi> I'd use the first one
12:08 < dav1d> #german
12:09 <+sadimusi> "Datenschutz Informationen" is weird too
12:09 <+sadimusi> either Datenschutz-Informationen or Informationen zum Datenschutz
12:09 < dx> discussing grammar?
12:10 <+sadimusi> shoghicp: I can't create a pocket mine account without importing a mojang account?
12:11 < shoghicp> sadimusi: we need to get a username from a trusted source :(
12:11 < shoghicp> but
12:11 < shoghicp> there are more sources ;)
12:11 <+sadimusi> then make it a custom server like everyone else
12:11 < shoghicp> https://account.pocketmine.net/m/login?minepocket
12:11 < shoghicp> sadimusi: that is for PocketMine Realms
12:12 < shoghicp> It is a list of public & private PocketMine-MP servers
12:12 < shoghicp> so they can use the in-game Realms interface
12:12 < Yoshi2> what's this? German lesson with #mcdevs?
12:13 < shoghicp> no, translation check xD
12:14 < Yoshi2> ah, I see
12:14 <+sadimusi> shoghicp: so what exactly do you do with the mojang account credentials?
12:14 < Not-005> [mineflayer] zuazo pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±3] http://git.io/7C1NXw
12:14 < Not-005> [mineflayer] zuazo 3a7049c - Release 1.0.0
12:14 < Not-005> [mineflayer] zuazo tagged 3a7049c as 1.0.0 http://git.io/n--B8A
12:15 < shoghicp> sadimusi: log in, get the MCPE Realms username, save the email + username in plain text, then save the password with SHA512(MD5 xor SHA1) with a salt
12:16 < shoghicp> I'll offer changing the password directly in a few days
12:18 < shoghicp> Mojang doesn't have a way to get the username only using the sid, so I had to do that to check the username
12:18 <+sadimusi> so all you need is to verify my username? can't I just connect to your realm server then?
12:18 < shoghicp> no
12:18 < shoghicp> there is no way to check it with the Mojang API
12:18 <+sadimusi> asking for a mojang account password is obviously unacceptable
12:18 <+sadimusi> nobody said anything about an api
12:19 < dav1d> ^
12:19 <+sadimusi> just make people join your server and you'll know their name is genuine
12:19 < shoghicp> We are talking about MCPE
12:19 < shoghicp> not PC
12:19 < Not-005> [mineflayer] zuazo pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/GLdyLA
12:19 < Not-005> [mineflayer] zuazo 9be648e - README: added npm version badge
12:19 < shoghicp> they can spoof that
12:19 < shoghicp> in fact, they did
12:19 < shoghicp> That is why I had to write the new login
12:19 < shoghicp> The old one was the MOjang
12:19 < shoghicp> I do not want to handle that
12:20 < shoghicp> anyway, in a while there will only need to import the account only if you used realms before
12:20 < shoghicp> so servers registered in an account can't be managed by other one
12:21 < shoghicp> hmm
12:21 < shoghicp> I've just though a way to make it work fine
12:21 <+sadimusi> I don't really know realms or the pocket version but you need another way
12:21 < shoghicp> In the start I did the "connect a fake server" way
12:22 < shoghicp> but the username couldn't be checked, it relied in security by obscurity
12:22 < shoghicp> let me do something ;)
12:22 <+sadimusi> can you even reserve a player name in the pocket version?
12:22  * dav1d does something too
12:23 < dx> needs more oauth
12:23 < shoghicp> sadimusi: yes, you have to do it after registering the account
12:23 <+sadimusi> dx: please no oauth
12:23 < dx> sadimusi: :D
12:23 < dx> *needs something like oauth that doesn't suck
12:23 <+sadimusi> dx: I thought it would be nice to use oauth for my bachelor's project. god was I wronf
12:23 <+sadimusi> "wrong
12:23 < dx> sadimusi: 1.0 or 2.0?
12:24 <+sadimusi> I think 1.0
12:24 < dx> 2.0 is a clusterfuck and 1.0 isn't very friendly for non-web
12:24 < dx> but 1.0 at least gets the web part right
12:24 <+sadimusi> even for 1.0 I couldn't find any good libraries, let alone compatible ones
12:25 <+sadimusi> some just let out vital parts of the protocol
12:25 < dav1d> sadimusi: python?
12:25 <+sadimusi> the python one was somewhat ok, I just had to implement a lot myself
12:25 <+sadimusi> the js one was the horror
12:27 < shoghicp> http://api.realms.pocketmine.net/status
12:28 < Yoshi2> I wanted to use google's apis for some stuff
12:28 < Yoshi2> when7 I saw that
12:28 < shoghicp> sadimusi: https://account.mojang.com/m/login?app=mcpe
12:29 < Yoshi2> hrm, pc just randomly went into sleeping mode
12:32 < Yoshi2> anyway, when I saw that google wanted oauth for app authentication, I pulled out immediately
12:36 < dav1d> github is broken :D
12:36 < dav1d> mailto:{email}
12:36 < dav1d> someone fix the template please
12:47 < shoghicp> thanks for the translation help ;)
12:48 < shoghicp> I'll be out for a few days
12:48  * sadimusi celebrates
12:49 < dx> are you celebrating that he won't be here? :D
12:49 <+sadimusi> of course :)
12:49 < dx> he might have written a server in php, but he's not a bad guy
12:49 <+sadimusi> he just built a website which asks for your mojang password...
12:50 < dx> yep! which pretty ugly, but i don't think he did it for evil
12:50 < dx> *which is
12:51 <+sadimusi> of course he didn't, but that's something you just don't do
12:51 <+sadimusi> if you expect people to enter it on your site they will do it too on actual fishing sites
12:51 < dx> yeah
12:53  * dx remembers being asked by some websites for my email account password to get my contact list to find my friends there
12:54 < dx> damn i mixed third and first person
12:54 <+sadimusi> happens to everyone
12:54 < dx> that's the kind of stuff that oauth is supposed to get rid of
12:55 < dx> but if they create a new version that is just plain worse than the previous one...
12:55 <+sadimusi> how is open id? I never looked behind the curtains
12:56 < dx> openid is something completely different, it can complement but not replace oauth
12:57 <+sadimusi> oauth is used in many scenarios where openid would work as well
12:57 <+sadimusi> like all those "log in with xxx"
12:57 <+clonejo> How about Persona?
12:58 <+sadimusi> never heard of it
12:58 <+clonejo> It's a bit different, it works with any email account
12:58 <+sadimusi> oh that's this mozilla thing
12:59 <+clonejo> While it can't replace OAuth it reduces the amount of passwords you have to remember.
12:59 < dx> i like how "persona" makes me think of mozilla because of the firefox themes, and i remember that the firefox themes aren't called like that anymore
13:07 <+AndrewPH> I think I last used like firefox 4 or something? and they weren't called personas then I don't think
13:07 <+AndrewPH> it's been a while, granted..
13:08 <+AndrewPH> offwards I go!
13:08 <+sadimusi> must have been a while, the newest version must be around 30 now
13:08 < dx> nah, that's chrome
13:08 < dx> firefox is still around 20
13:08 <+sadimusi> at least chrome never shows the version anywhere
13:09 <+sadimusi> it's just chrome
13:09 < dx> why is it a good thing to hide it?
13:09 <+sadimusi> because firefox' versions are getting out of hand
13:10 <+sadimusi> and the average consumer shouldn't care about versions
13:10 < eddyb> you can still check your version (and also a bunch of other info, at about:version), but chrome auto-updates where possible and version only matters if you're behind
13:10 <+sadimusi> I still had ff 15, so it downloaded 19 o.O
13:11 <+sadimusi> from there it went straight to 22 at least
13:11 < eddyb> 30.0.1568.0 (Official Build 212189) dev
13:12 <+sadimusi> @off-topic: spotify's music matching algorithms are ingenius, somehow I got from jazz to an electro swing / dubstep track o.O
13:12 < eddyb> oh, and my command-line appears to be 28 lines long, lol
13:12 <+sadimusi> :D
13:12 < dx> $ pacman -Q systemd
13:12 < dx> systemd 204-1
13:12 < eddyb> lol
13:12 < dx> lennart wins
13:14 < eddyb> dx: hmm, I only have 195-13.29.1, I should update
13:18 < Calinou> chrome is evil
13:18 < eddyb> chrome is chromium with a speckle of possible evil :P
13:19 < dx> and pepper flash
13:19 < eddyb> ah, you know what would be awesome? chromium with DuckDuckGo branding :D
13:19 < dx> :D
13:20 < dx> oh i think chromium doesn't have h264 codecs built-in either
13:21 < eddyb> Google are promoting the open WebM stuff
13:22 < dx> """promoting"""
13:22 < Calinou> it'd be called Di--
13:22  * Calinou runs
13:22 < Calinou> dx: and?
13:23 < Calinou> it's your problem, and you can still watch youtube vids.
13:23 <+Fador> I'd vote for HEVC/H.265 but then again I've been a bit involved in the development ;D
13:23 < Calinou> a closed standard contributor?
13:23 <+Fador> well kinda
13:23  * Calinou hammers Fador with powerjack, escape plan, bat, GRU, spylactite and all that
13:23 < dx> i got pretty mad when google announced vp9
13:23 <+Fador> we worked for Nokia and did some research
13:23 < dx> and wanted to force everyone to adopt it
13:24 < dx> google themselves killed webm by including h264 in chrome, and forced mozilla to give up in that battle
13:25 < Calinou> >mozilla >not giving up battles
13:25 < Calinou> lololololololol
13:25 < dx> ..
13:25 <+Fador> I still watch youtube with the flash player because the HTML5 player just sucks ;)
13:25 < Calinou> our local FOSS hater
13:25 <+sadimusi> Fador: it does?
13:25 < Calinou> it doesn't
13:25 <+Fador> sadimusi: I had some problems with it
13:26 < Calinou> but if you think you really need to have loading bar interpolation to watch your pony dubstep, feel free to
13:26 <+sadimusi> I used to have some, not anymore though
13:26 < Calinou> and if you believe flash is still useful in 2013
13:26 <+Fador> sadimusi: ok, maybe I should give it another change then =)
13:27 <+sadimusi> I even let clickToPlugin replace those with flash with the standard video player
13:27 <+sadimusi> annotations won't work of course, but most of the time they're just annoying anyway
13:28 < dx> *cough* sour grapes *cough*
13:28 <+sadimusi> dx: ?
13:29 < Calinou> scott moreau grapes!
13:29  * Calinou hides
13:29 < eddyb> I am getting more HTML5 from youtube in the last few days
13:29 < dx> there are annoying annotations, but i've seen lots of uploaders that do subtitles that way
13:29 < dx> and subtitles are essential IMO
13:29 < eddyb> if possible, I would choose to enable HTML5 for everything
13:30 < eddyb> dx: you're watching anime or what?
13:30 <+sadimusi> videos with ads still don't get html5...
13:30 < dx> eddyb: nah, for everything. i'm not good at listening english, particularly with unusual accents.
13:31 < eddyb> sadimusi: intentionally? dammit >_<
13:32 < eddyb> although AFAIK ads *are* HTML
13:32 < dx> ads inside the flash player aren't
13:33 < eddyb> well, AdBlock can block them and.... oh, the video ads?
13:33 < dx> what's that? :D
13:33 < dx> i meant the text ads that pop in the middle of some videos
13:34 < dx> adblock being able to get rid of them is not really part of the issue
14:45 <+sadimusi> Dinnerbone: are you aware of the eating and healing speed exploit I demonstrated here earlier?
15:20 < dx> sadimusi: i wonder if that kind of stuff belongs in the bug tracker
15:20 <+sadimusi> https://mojang.atlassian.net/browse/MC-26924
15:21 < dx> can't see it, private :P
15:21 <+sadimusi> ah right
15:21 < dx> but cool
15:21 <+sadimusi> it's a pretty old exploits, so I am really wondering if they knew of it
15:23 < redstonehelper> is it the one where you switch to another edible/drinkable right after you drink the first one and consume the second without being blocked from sprinting?
15:23 <+sadimusi> no, it's the one where you can eat instantly and heal very fast
15:23 <+sadimusi> I made a video: http://youtu.be/1Ywe_qeIEw0
15:23 < dx> also known as sadimusi's adventures in the dark side
15:24 < redstonehelper> what does the "plugin" in the title refer to? modded client?
15:24 <+sadimusi> no, proxy
15:25 < dx> plugin of mc4p which is a protocol parsing proxy, he just injects packets
15:25 <+sadimusi> at one point it looked list this: https://gist.github.com/sadimusi/ac5cb915ee2c3c3657d5
15:25 <+sadimusi> I added automatic eating which isn't really part of the exploit
15:26 < redstonehelper> the exploit is that the server doesn't stop it, not that it's easily possible in vanilla minecraft, right?
15:26 <+sadimusi> yes
15:26 <+sadimusi> most of the custom clients use it though
15:26 < redstonehelper> stuff like that will probably always be around :/
15:27 < redstonehelper> thanks for explaining!
15:27 < dx> well this one is not like the other "exploits" that cause issues with laggy situations and are a pain in the ass to block
15:27 < dx> this seems to be a single packet that when sent at high rates changes what gets processed in server ticks... or something like that
15:28 < dx> a packet that seemed to be completely useless
15:29 < dx> sadimusi: actually, have you tried sending 0x0B instead of 0x0A?
15:29 <+sadimusi> no, but it would probably work too
15:29 < dx> yep
15:30 < dx> and 0x0C.. and 0x0D... why do we have four packets with "on ground"
15:31 <+sadimusi> no, the code is really only in the 0x0a handler
15:31 < dx> the server-side parsing of on ground you mean?
15:31 <+sadimusi> yes
15:32 < dx> but the effect is the same. four packets affected by it
15:32 <+sadimusi> hm, wait maybe I missed something
15:32 <+sadimusi> yes, they all use the same handler
15:33 <+sadimusi> the three other packets all extend 0x0a
15:34 <+sadimusi> it's called "Flying" in mcp, that would be a way better name than "Player"
15:36 < Calinou> >fixing exploits in MC
17:49 < PlayerWithoutNam> hi all
17:50 < PlayerWithoutNam> response.split("\""); - best JSON decoding ever xD
17:53 < eddyb> .split('"') :P
17:54 < eddyb> but seriously, JSON.parse(x) or the equivalent in your language/framework
17:56 < PlayerWithoutNam> .split('"') won't work because java needs string argument, not char :P
18:23 < PlayerWithoutNam> http://pastebin.com/6hU8UDmD - lul that launch command is so long xD
18:24 <+sadimusi> :=
18:24 <+sadimusi> * :)
18:28 < PlayerWithoutNam> i have no idea why that command doesn't launch minecraft :(
18:28 < PlayerWithoutNam> with real token and username ofc
18:29 < PlayerWithoutNam> no jvm errors, output and error streams empty :(
18:30 < PlayerWithoutNam> messing with paths gave me nothing
18:41 < eddyb> I remember something funny on windows
18:41 < eddyb> ah it's not it. I used : on linux and wouldn't work on windows because stupid design
18:42 <+sadimusi> it doesn't work for me either, somehow it can't find the main class wit the -Djava.library.path set
18:45 <+sadimusi> it looks like it only searches the first jar listed on the classpath o.O
18:53 < PlayerWithoutNam> lul
18:53 <+sadimusi> did you look at the arguments the launcher generates?
18:54 < PlayerWithoutNam> that command is generated by launcher, i just replaced username and token with '-'
18:55 <+sadimusi> I mean the vanilla launcher
19:00 < PlayerWithoutNam> oh
19:01 < PlayerWithoutNam> i copied original launcher command and changed library paths, so they are relative to launcher file
19:01 <+sadimusi> and you get no error?
19:01 < PlayerWithoutNam> nothing.
19:01 <+sadimusi> I get java.lang.UnsatisfiedLinkError: org.lwjgl.DefaultSysImplementation.getPointerSize()I
19:01 < PlayerWithoutNam> hmm
19:04 < [z]> are the natives really in bin\natives?
19:04 < [z]> I think new minecraft doesn't use that
19:04 <+sadimusi> it doesn't but they are
19:04 < [z]> they are probably old
19:05 <+sadimusi> minecraft creates a temporary folder and copies them from there every time you start it
19:05 <+sadimusi> I checked the hashes, they are identical
19:05 < PlayerWithoutNam> wait, so what should be in natives folder?
19:06 < [z]> dlls
19:06 < PlayerWithoutNam> ok
19:06 < [z]> there's a jar in libraries along with the other lwjgl stuff, and in there are the dlls
19:06 < PlayerWithoutNam> windows-natives.jar?
19:06 < [z]> yes
19:07 < PlayerWithoutNam> my launcher downloads and extracts its content to natives folder
19:09 < PlayerWithoutNam> so what's wrong, do i need to have more folders than bin, assets and libraries?
19:18 < PlayerWithoutNam> i give up, no idea how to fix that :(
--- Day changed jeu. juil. 25 2013
05:20 < JoeDoyle23> I have a protocol question.
05:21 < JoeDoyle23> Wokring on a custom server with 1.6.2 I'm not seeing a packet for when the client starts digging (status=0)
05:21 < JoeDoyle23> Instead I see 2 packets for stop digging (status=2)
05:21 < JoeDoyle23> Is it me or did this change?
05:25 < JoeDoyle23> Hmm, I can get status 1 & 2, but not 0.
05:44 < JoeDoyle23> Bad update to my packet parser...
08:21 < Not-005> [fCraft] fragmer * r2093 8 files : Various improvements to RealisticMapGenBlockTheme
08:23 < Not-005> [fCraft] fragmer * r2094 2 files : Removed fNbt from the codebase for now -- integration postponed until after 0.640 release
08:34 < Not-005> [fCraft] fragmer * r2095 3 files : Fixed a couple bugs in /SetGen parameter handling for Flat and Realistic map generators.
09:16 < Not-005> [fCraft] fragmer * r2096 10 files : Split Player.IsValidName into more fine-grained Player.IsValidAccountName/Player.IsValidEmail/Player.IsValidPlayerName methods. Improved accuracy of parsing as a result.
09:35 < Not-005> [fCraft] fragmer * r2097 2 files : Fixed Player.IsValidAccountName/Player.IsValidPlayerName regexes being too narrow (thanks Sandfreak1)
09:46 < Not-005> [fCraft] fragmer * r2098 6 files : Fixed MapGen help formatting.
09:46 < Not-005> [fCraft] fragmer * r2099 2 files : Fixed console being able to view its empty nonsensical /Info.
10:21 < Not-005> [fCraft] fragmer * r2100 2 files : Fixed some grayed-out text on IRC tab in ConfigGUI.
10:45 < Not-005> [fCraft] fragmer * r2101 2 files : Fixed typos in FloatingIsland and Vanilla MapGens' help (thanks Flamewarrior199)
13:02 < dav1d> Brottweiler: Joe goes to Sweden Part 2
14:39 < Brottweiler> dav1d: woo
18:32 < Not-005> [fCraft] fragmer * r2102 2 files : Fixed server not hiding email accounts' domain in some cases.
21:34 < Not-005> [fCraft] fragmer * r2103 2 files : Fixed a couple more edge cases in email handling. Fixed a confusing error when trying to use "/BanInfo" from console without parameters.
21:36 < Not-005> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/5L82dg
21:36 < Not-005> [Craft.Net] TheMonkey1415 307876d - 1.6.2 is protocol version 74.
21:36 < Not-005> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 2c5794f - Merge pull request #176 from TheMonkey1415/master 1.6.2 Protocol Version
--- Day changed ven. juil. 26 2013
00:36 < Not-005> [fCraft] fragmer * r2104 2 files : Another minor tweak to Player.IsValidPlayerName, to allow email accounts with the number omitted.
01:41 < Not-005> [fCraft] fragmer * r2105 2 files : Fixed /water not toggling off (thanks Cole5slaw)
03:20 < Not-005> [fCraft] fragmer * r2106 3 files : Fixed preview creation getting permanently stuck in a "canceled" state in AddWorldPopup
05:21 < Not-005> [fCraft] fragmer * r2107 3 files : Added ViewEmails permission.
06:17 < Merlin33069> Hello, I have a question if anyone would care to assist me i would be very happy and gracious
06:23 < umby24> go for it, throw the question out and someone may or may not answer
06:26 < Merlin33069> Well, A buddy and I have been working on the basics of a C# SMP Server, were up to the point where were attempting to spawn the player, the player enters the world and his coordinates are stuck at about -1.6, he can move (though not visibly) and if you go to third person you can see he is standing on what appears to be a black box
06:26 < Merlin33069> and i was wondering if someone had any clue as to what is wrong
06:58 < Merlin33069> tweaking it a little and i can send the player coordinates, have not figured out why the map will not load yet
06:58 < Merlin33069> or why my coordinates are -
06:59 < dexter0> Have you looked at https://github.com/SirCmpwn/Craft.Net/
07:00 < Merlin33069> I have, to an extent, I know I am sending the data in the correct order and the correct sizes, my only guess right now is that it has something to do with the "twos compliant" referance, researching that atm
07:02 < Merlin33069> compliment*
07:02 < Merlin33069> And my spelling seems to be all sorts of screwed up, *sigh*
07:15 < Merlin33069> ok, maybe ill be back tomorrow, night irc
09:22 < Not-005> [fCraft] fragmer * r2108 3 files : Added ability to manually adjust capitalization of players' names using "/SetInfo <PlayerName> Name"
09:29 < Not-005> [fCraft] fragmer * r2109 2 files : Added /sg as an alias for /SetGen
15:58 < superjoe> here's a snippet from this channel taken back in January: https://gist.github.com/superjoe30/4506590
15:58 < superjoe> I love you guys
16:01 <+sadimusi> :D somehow I missed that conversation 
16:02 < superjoe> it's like the topic is trying *so hard* to be serious
16:02 < superjoe> but it can't quite do it
16:10 < dx> <ammar2> thousands of americans lose their lives every year from ssh password related extortions
16:11 < dx> ;_;
16:11 < dx> let's have one minute of silence for them
19:34 < Naruto> How do I import NMS into my Maven project?
19:35 < Calinou> inb4 ban
19:36 < Naruto> I thought that was allowed here?
19:39 < Calinou> no, just a joke :)
19:39 < Naruto> k I double-checked to make sure this wasn't #bukkitdev
20:05 < dx> Naruto: it might be allowed but that's just because we allow offtopic :D
20:07 < dx> Naruto: most of us don't deal with bukkit and personally i suck at maven. if i was in your position i'd check how other projects that need NMS handle this situation
23:23 < Merlin33069> Why hello again!
23:25 < Merlin33069> so, I was on pretty late last night (or this morning) as I have an issue with maps in Minecraft, it could be a problem with the way numbers are sent, im not sure what the issue is exactly yet
23:28 < Merlin33069> when spawned the player has a y=-1.6 coordinate, and sending the player coordinates resets it to y=-1.6, it doesnt seem to matter what number I send, when the player is falling the numbers on the players debug screen and the servers position screen are different as the player falls, Ie the server starts at -11 adn the player starts at -1 and they go in opposite directions
23:28 < Merlin33069> im translating from host to network and from network to host, and no other errors have presented themselves, so I am quite confused :/
23:29 < dav1d> y -1.6 is illegal?
23:29 < Merlin33069> I think its setting to -1.6 because the map isnt properly loaded
23:29 < Merlin33069> and I cant figure out why that is either >_.
23:29 < Merlin33069> >_>
23:29 < dav1d> black block, probably lighting data set to 0
23:30 < dav1d> use a proxy to verify you send stuff correctly, like mc4p
23:30 < Merlin33069> Did not know such a thing existed, Havent done mc coding in quite some time
23:46 < Merlin33069> eh
--- Day changed sam. juil. 27 2013
00:26 < Not-005> [fCraft] fragmer * r2110 2 files : Fixed a regex typo in Player.IsValidPlayerName
02:33 < Merlin33069> I havent figured it out yet, cant get the proxy to work, playing with other peices atm
03:28 <+AndrewPH> SinZ: thank you
03:29 < SinZ> yw
04:58 < Ghoul_> anyone in here working on anything Haskell?
08:27 <+sadimusi> Merlin33069: did you get it working?
14:48 < Grum> Anyone here with one of those 'super low fps since 1.6'-IntelHDXXXX setups?
14:55 < barneygale> channel is probably full of people with quad crossfire nvidia supa-geforces
14:55 < barneygale> i've got a riva tnt2 you can test on if you like ;)
15:00 < dav1d> Grum: I can test with a 7 year old intel graphics card laptop
15:00 < dav1d> no idea what exactly, but pretty bad
17:48 < woder> hey I'm having some difficulty with entity metadata and was wondering if someone could help me out, the console output is here http://pastebin.com/1iUCwpmB and the code http://pastebin.com/EXXRatuj
17:53 < dav1d> woder: the & 0xe0 is not needed, probably your slot reading code is messed up, everything else looks ok
17:54 < woder> but it never tries to read a slot is what confuses me
17:54 < dav1d> right
17:55 < dav1d> you're sure the metadata code is messed up and not a packet before the metadata?
17:55 < woder> pretty sure since its able to know who spawned: "Player woder22 spawned next to me :D and is holding: 0"
17:56 < woder> and even what its holding
18:01 < dav1d> woder: well there is no order for packets
18:02 < woder> yeah but the meta is part of that packet, and the last thing it reads(the item in hand) is correct
18:02 < dav1d> oh
18:02 < dav1d> I see
18:02 < Yoshi2> is the client supposed to receive slot data in the entity metadata?
18:04 < woder> I also find it interesting that the first thing it reads is a float 0 at index 17 (is that suppose to be a thing?)
18:04 < Yoshi2> I've looked at http://wiki.vg/Entities#Entity and (if the information is somewhat up to date) there is no mention of slot data in the player metadata
18:05 < woder> yeah I never receive any slot data
18:26 < dav1d> I think slotdata is for slimes
--- Day changed dim. juil. 28 2013
12:10 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2111 2 files : Doubled performance of Rank.Parse, which also speeds up PlayerDB loading.
17:34 < Yoshi2> sadimusi: I'm currently trying to use mc4p as the basis for a SMP -> classic proxy
17:34 < Yoshi2> because both protocols are very different, is it possible to use asymetrical protocol definitions for Client <-> Proxy and Proxy <-> Server in mc4p?
17:37 < dx> Yoshi2: just curious, are you forking mc4p for this, or limiting yourself to a mc4p plugin?
17:39 < dx> (or forking mc4p to extend the plugin api to support what you want to do? :D)
17:39 < Yoshi2> dx: I suppose you can call it a fork
17:39 < Yoshi2> mc4p plugins are not enough because mc4p does not know the definitions of the classic protocol
17:40 < dx> yeah, i imagined so
17:40 < Yoshi2> but I do want to use the plugins to translate some 1.6 packets into classic packets and vice versa
17:40 < dx> hm interesting approach
17:41 < Yoshi2> my first attempts have not been very successful though :/
17:42 < dx> well i'm sure you'll have to change the plugin api too if you want to use it like that
17:42 < dx> hm wait nevermind, no, i'm not sure about that :D
17:42 < Yoshi2> the plugin api is fine, as far as I can tell
17:43 < Yoshi2> but I fear that mc4p requires the protocol from the client to the proxy to be the same as from the proxy to the server
18:09 < [z]> Wasn't there already something that did that?
18:17 < Yoshi2> probably, but I haven't heard much about that
22:40 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2112 3 files : Fixed a potential (unlikely) serialization issue with PlayerInfo.RankChangedBy. Fixed players who were added to the database manually not having their FirstLoginDate set on first login. Optimizations in IPBanList.
23:38 <+sadimusi> Yoshi2: You'd have to tweak the proxy module pretty heavily to achive this
23:44 < Yoshi2> sadimusi: yeah, that's true
23:48 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/VZZKqQ
23:48 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde d245a80 - add physics to readme
23:48 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde f52165c - minor std/json update
23:52 < Yoshi2> I do think that I have found a way to do this
23:52 < Yoshi2> by giving each of the two MinecraftProxy instances two different versions of the protocol, one for 1.6, and one for classic, the client-side instance can use the 1.6 version to handle data from the client, and use the classic version to send data to the server, and vice versa for the server-side instance
23:53 < Yoshi2> of course, a lot of work will go into filtering and translating packets, but that should be possible by using plugins :)
--- Day changed lun. juil. 29 2013
06:23 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2113 5 files : CommandDescriptor.Aliases can now take any capitalization in the definition. Added an /Export command, for exporting lists of ranks/bans. Currently only outputs plain text -- perhaps CSV/XML/JSON is coming.
06:32 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2114 3 files : Added /ImportRankList (which probably ought to be merged with /Import somewhere down the line). Main difference in behavior is that "/ImportRankList" skips banned players and players who are already ranked same/higher.
06:33 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2115 2 files : /ImportRankList no longer tries to re-promote players who are of the desired rank already.
06:58 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2116 2 files : Rolling back last commit (I got it backwards). Oops.
--- Log closed lun. juil. 29 23:20:25 2013
--- Log opened lun. juil. 29 23:20:33 2013
23:20 -!- Irssi: #mcdevs: Total of 117 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 11 voices, 105 normal]
23:22 -!- Irssi: Join to #mcdevs was synced in 145 secs
--- Day changed mar. juil. 30 2013
00:41 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2117 5 files : Renamed PlayerDB.AddFakeEntry to PlayerDB.CreateNewPlayerInfo, which more accurately reflects is purpose. Fixed CreateNewPlayerInfo accepting invalid player names, and not assigning them IDs.
09:37 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2118 2 files : In preparation for 0.640 release, disabled a couple unfinished commands (/ImportRankList and /Export), which need further refinement before release.
10:27 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2119 6 files : Added AllowEmailAccounts config key; added corresponding checkbox on "Security" tab in ConfigGUI.
10:27 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2120 10 files : Removed a bunch of backwards-compatibility code, for fCraft versions before 0.53x
10:46 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2121 3 files : Removed some debug code
11:26 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2122 2 files : Fixed a regression in /Sphere and /Ellipsoid, which caused incomplete shapes to be drawn.
11:33 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2123 3 files : 0.640 final, at long last! Updated changelog, readme, and embedded version info.
11:43 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2124 2 files : 0.640 tag
11:49 < Wulfspider> lol wha? Your IP address is listed as an open proxy in the DNSBL used by MinecraftCoalition
11:50 <+sadimusi> using ipv6?
11:50 < Wulfspider> Nope
11:50 < Wulfspider> Not on any lists I see either
11:51 < Wulfspider> Couldn't log into my user, so tried to register again as it said my user didn't exist... even though the user is still viewable from my previous edits.
11:52 <+sadimusi> unfortunately there's not much I can do
11:53 < Wulfspider> Someone could remove the useless addon :P
11:53 < Wulfspider> extension*
11:53 <+sadimusi> I think this is a standard feature of mediawiki
11:53 < Wulfspider> Only if enabled
11:54 < Wulfspider> $wgEnableDnsBlacklist = false; :P
11:55 < Wulfspider> "There is no user by the name "Wulfspider"." all lies!
11:55 < Wulfspider> "Your IP address is listed as an open proxy in the DNSBL used by MinecraftCoalition. You cannot create an account" mooore lies
11:55 <+sadimusi> TkTech: ^
11:56 < Wulfspider> http://wiki.vg/Special:Contributions/Wulfspider
11:56 < Wulfspider> Yet http://wiki.vg/User:Wulfspider
11:56 < Wulfspider> Makes all sorts of sense
11:56 <+sadimusi> oh, we moved the wiki
11:56 <+sadimusi> all users were deleted
11:56 < Wulfspider> Mhmm
11:57 <+sadimusi> (since we didn't have access to the database and there were a few k spam bots)
11:57 < Wulfspider> Gotcha
11:57 < Wulfspider> Yeah, since I registered on mc.kev009.com or whatever before
11:57 <+sadimusi> the spam bots are the reason dnsbl is even enabled, but it doesn't appear very reliable to me
11:59 < Wulfspider> Never are sadly
12:00 <+sadimusi> well, the only one who can help you is TkTech and it looks like he isn't around
12:00 < Wulfspider> Ded
12:06 <+md_5> well 
12:07 <+md_5> I was going to make an account for you Wulfspider 
12:07 <+md_5> buuut
12:07 <+md_5> "Your IP address is listed as an open proxy in the DNSBL used by MinecraftCoalition. You cannot create an account "
12:07 <+md_5> > same IP I used for md_5
12:07 <+md_5> > DNSBL is f***d
12:07 <+sadimusi> I created an account for someone else once, after one edit he was locked out again
12:07 < dx> maybe it defaults to blacklisted and failed to connect
13:53 < Yoshi2> in http://wiki.vg/SMP_Map_Format the page says the following about the half byte data in a chunk:
13:53 < Yoshi2> "In half-byte arrays, two values are packed into each byte. Even-indexed items are packed into the high bits, odd-indexed into the low bits. "
13:53 < Yoshi2> does "even-indexed" or "odd-indexed" refer to the indices of the blocks, to which the half-byte data belongs?
13:54 < SinZ> its confusing, as it references a high/low system
13:54 < SinZ> and even/odd at the same time
13:56 < jast> Yoshi2: that's my interpretation, yes
14:22 < eddyb> just in case anyone cares, I have a simple NBT parser http://jsfiddle.net/eddyb/eaSmM/show/ - code: http://jsfiddle.net/eddyb/eaSmM/
14:23 < eddyb> (I actually need it for a different project, not minecraft-related, but thought to drop it here anyway)
14:24 < SinZ> a non-minecraft related nbt project?
14:24 < SinZ> dafuq
14:25 < eddyb> JSON/XML are way more verbose and a fixed custom format would be a PITA
14:26 < dx> hah interesting
14:26 < eddyb> and I didn't decide on this, but the other dev went with Java/LWJGL
14:26 < dx> so he used a notchian nbt library too?
14:26 < eddyb> I thought "let's embed NBT in a custom format" but then "what the hell, NBT everything"
14:26 < dav1d> eddyb: bson, msgpack
14:28 < eddyb> dav1d: http://bsonspec.org/#/specification o_O
14:28 < eddyb> looks over-complicated to me
14:28 < dav1d> and http://msgpack.org/
14:29 < dav1d> latter is supposed to be the improvement of bson
14:29 < eddyb> ooh, now we're talking
14:30 < eddyb> socket.io should use something like that
14:30 < eddyb> damn it's smart
14:31 < eddyb> oh, it's big-endian
14:35 < eddyb> dav1d: I can see at least an important problem with msgpack: lack of strings
14:35 < dav1d> eddyb: Issue 28
14:36 < eddyb> dav1d: apart from that, it's pretty much better than NBT
14:36 < eddyb> dav1d: https://github.com/msgpack/msgpack/issues/28 ?
14:37 < dav1d> eddyb: no 128
14:37 < dav1d> eddyb: https://github.com/msgpack/msgpack/issues/128
14:37 < eddyb> https://github.com/msgpack/msgpack/issues/84 haha
14:40 < eddyb> dav1d: oh, so there will be some support in the future
14:40 < dav1d> I think, not really following msgpack, clonejo pointed it out to me and I looked a bit into it, it looks quite useful
14:41 < eddyb> anyway, I don't like anything too stiff (using JS after all), so I could just replace NBT later without breaking the used API)
14:42 < eddyb> s/)$//
14:42 < eddyb> might be harder on the Java side, but that's not my work :P
14:45 < eddyb> is it just me, or TAG_Int_Array in NBT only serves the purpose of saving 1 byte?
14:45 <+ammar2> just you
14:45 < eddyb> it's it the same as TAG_List(TAG_Int)?
14:46 <+ammar2> sort of, in java you can have an int object and an int primitve
14:46 < eddyb> it's a weird specific case. I would've rather used one bit in the tag type to specify a list
14:47 <+ammar2> a TAG_LIST(TAG_Int) would have quite a lot of overhead in the default implementation which it is centered around
14:47 < eddyb> ammar2: oh, and the object uses 40 bytes instead of 4 because Java?
14:47 <+ammar2> where you'd have a list of objects
14:47 <+ammar2> to wrap around another int object
14:48 < eddyb> there must be a Java limitation for this
14:49 < eddyb> in v8, there is barely any overhead between in Array.Int32, compared to Int32Array
14:50 < eddyb> ammar2: so it's not possible to have a generic List base that you can do .asListOf<int>() and get List<int> (if it's that type), which is just a wrapper for int[]?
14:51 < dav1d> because Java
14:51 < eddyb> s/between//
14:51 <+ammar2> see you can't have a List<int> at all
14:51 < eddyb> fuck Java
14:51 <+ammar2> not with the standard java libraries
14:51 < eddyb> ammar2: ah, NBT.List then
14:52 < eddyb> can you even have a generic method?
14:52 <+ammar2> no primitives in generics
14:53 < eddyb> this is totally possible in C++
14:53 <+ammar2> because well
14:53 <+ammar2> java doesn't really have generics
14:53 < eddyb> wow. and here I was thinking it doesn't have templates
14:53 <+ammar2> everything disappears when you compile
14:53 <+ammar2> its all compile time magic
14:53 < eddyb> so it just has virtual bases?
14:54 < eddyb> that pretend to be generics?
14:54 <+ammar2> sort of, here's a stack overflow answer which kinda explains it http://stackoverflow.com/a/2721557
14:58 < eddyb> ammar2: thanks. this sucks\
14:59 < dav1d> Java casts, that's their generics
15:00 < eddyb> who the fuck thought that's a good solution?
15:00 < eddyb> it smells of PHP
18:53 < TkTech> Wulfspider: Sorry, you should be able to signup now.
19:06 < dx> TkTech: what was wrong with dnsbl? (or did you just nuke dnsbl since it's not really needed?)
19:06 < TkTech> Nuked it. Dynamic IPs + big cities = no fun.
19:10 < Calinou> s/c/t
19:10  * Calinou runs
19:25 < dx> that isn't even valid sed
--- Day changed mer. juil. 31 2013
04:04 < dreadiscool> This may or may not be the place for this, but...
04:05 < dreadiscool> I'm having a problem with my server
04:05 < dreadiscool> It's getting spammed by tons of connections, most of which are going through tor endpoints
04:05 < dreadiscool> They're all different IPs
04:05 < dreadiscool> And it's crippling my minecraft server
04:06 < dreadiscool> I just get a flood of read timed out errors, and then nobody can join
04:07 < dreadiscool> Is there anything I can do to stop the attack?
04:08 < dreadiscool> I've tried staminus' ddos protection, I've tried using PNAP directly, and I'm about to try blacklotus
04:08 < dreadiscool> But nothing is stopping it :\
04:11 < dexter0> Heh, I didn't know there was enough bandwidth in the TOR network to sustain a substantial DDOS attack but then again, you did not mention how much bandwidth you have.
04:16 < dreadiscool> dexter0 it's not a ddos
04:16 < dreadiscool> In fact, the total amount of traffic coming through tor barely cross a mbit
04:16 < dreadiscool> It looks like a layer 7 attack
04:18 < dexter0> I'd imagine there is a list of known TOR endpoints you can grab and blacklist.
04:20 < dreadiscool> dexter0, does that really stop the problem? I'm sure its non trivial to get free tcp proxies
04:20 < dreadiscool> Or even pay $50 or something and get access to the IPs that a botnet can provide
04:21 < dexter0> well, then implement an IP whitelist until the attack dies down.
04:23 < dreadiscool> dexter0, doesn't mean that they still win?
04:23 < dreadiscool> dos - denial of service
04:24 < dreadiscool> With the whitelist in place, they still win :3
04:26 < dexter0> how many ppl are on your server?
04:26 < dexter0> if it's a small server, just whitelist all your players (look over your logs) until the attack blows over.
04:28 < dexter0> > dreadiscool: I'm sure its non trivial to get free tcp proxies
04:28 < dexter0> [7:20pm] If they are willing to pay $.
04:28 < dreadiscool> 100 - 1250
04:28 < dreadiscool> At peak times
04:28 < dreadiscool> *1000 - 1250
04:29 < dreadiscool> dexter0 I can't whitelist that many people D:
04:29 < dexter0> yeah
04:41 < dreadiscool> So is there nothing that I can do to fix this?
04:41 < dreadiscool> Am I at the mercy of the attackers?
04:41 < dreadiscool> I've money to spend, money is of no concern to me
04:49 < dreadiscool> :(
19:08 < ajf> ...yep yep it's 2010 again I'm going to write another shitty Minecraft Classic server heeere we gooooo
19:16 < ajf> actually no because Classic's sound doesn't work for me any more
19:16 < ajf> ;_;
19:18 < morfin> hello 
19:18 < ajf> hi
19:19 < morfin> i am writing own launcher for legacy Minecraft(1.2.5) and i've got a question: is not enought to pass to client playerName and sessionId
19:19 < Calinou> >writing own launcher
19:19 < Calinou> http://xkcd.com/927
19:20 < Calinou> >minecraft 1.2.5
19:20 < Calinou> see above
19:20 < morfin> pffff
19:20 < morfin> will be there another ideas
19:21 < morfin> do you know why legacy?
19:21 < morfin> because after 1.2.5 Minecraft got moar shitcode
19:22 < Calinou> >shitcode
19:22 < ajf> wat/
19:22 < ajf> ?
19:23 < ajf> Oh crap: 'Channel is publicly logged as of Feb.25/13'
19:23 < dav1d> Brottweiler: Joe @Sweden Part 3 :D
19:23 < ajf> NOW THE ENTIRE WORLD WILL KNOW I'M ACTUALLY A TERRORIST D:
19:23 < redstonehelper> k
19:36 < Yoshi2> where are the logs stored? I think nobody even knows 
19:36 < dkkline> At NSA HQ, obviously
19:37 < dkkline> Like everything else, allegedly.
19:41 < dx> Yoshi2: in whatever server notifico is on. it's just that there's no way to access them publicly yet
20:02 < Brottweiler> dav1d: I know dude :D
20:02 < dav1d> Brottweiler: :D
20:04 < Yoshi2> dx: alright, that's good to know
20:08 <+pdelvo> NSA is great. I dont have to worry about backing up my computer
20:10 < eddyb> wait until someone remotely burns their datacenter to the ground
20:10 < eddyb> they have that coming
20:28 < stephenmac7> sadimusi: I fixed the file serving :D
20:28 < stephenmac7> In the mod thingy
--- Day changed jeu. août 01 2013
00:48 < dexter0> Anyone else planning to attend Minecon?
00:51 < Yoshi2> is it already time for Minecon? o.O
00:52 < dexter0> It's time for Minecon tickets :D
00:52 < Yoshi2> where will it be this time?
00:52 < dexter0> Orlando, FL
00:53 <+pdelvo> I dont travel thousands of km and pay hundrets of euros to go to a convention about one game if I can go to gamescom for 11€
00:53 < stephenmac7> I like in florida
00:53  * Yoshi2 highfives pdelvo
00:54 <+pdelvo> you go this year? :D
00:54 < Yoshi2> it's great to have a games convention right in front of my nose
00:54 < dexter0> I'm going
00:54 < dexter0> err, not to gamescon :P
00:55 < dexter0> anyway, SirCmpwn is interested in doing a panel if other knowledgable ppl are both interested and will be in attendance.
00:58 < Yoshi2> pdelvo: I'm not sure if I will go this year, I've stopped visiting it since Nintendo stopped attending it  
01:01 <+pdelvo> Im not sure if I go. I dont care about the big publishers. I dont want to wait hours to play a game for a minute. The small ones are better. You can check out a game you would never knew it exists.
01:02 <+pdelvo> last year people were waiting 8 hours to play a minute of AC3
01:03 < Yoshi2> yeah, that is just crazy
01:04 < Yoshi2> I wouldn't go to a convention just to play a yearly rehash of the same game
01:04 <+pdelvo> Instead I checked out Tribes: Ascend which is actually very funny. And I could play as long as I wanted without any waiting time
01:11 <+pdelvo> A pic I have taken last year :D http://sdrv.ms/133I5I0 "Erhebt euch" - Stand Up :D
01:29 <+ammar2> pdelvo: hirez has abandoned trobe ;_;
05:17 < Extreme> anyone know what changed with the 1.1.4 launcher?
05:40 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2125 11 files : Starting on 0.641 (changing assembly versions).
05:41 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2126 3 files : Added a /reply (/re) command, as requested by Sanjar Khan some 2 years ago.
10:36 < ErricoMalatesta> hello, I'm trying to set up iptables with lenght match and binary checks on packes to not allow garbage data to pass through and be dealed by java but I still did not understand many things and I hope somebody can share some toughts with me
10:37 < ErricoMalatesta> like if I have a bukkit or spigot with plugins is it going to influence the lenght of the tcp packets?
10:37 < ErricoMalatesta> checking with my dissector it seems so
10:37 < ErricoMalatesta> but it vary
12:26 < ErricoMalatesta> hello, I'm trying to set up iptables with lenght match and binary checks on packes to not allow garbage data to pass through and be dealed by java but I still did not understand many things and I hope somebody can share some toughts with me
12:27 <+md_5> impossible via iptables
12:27 <+md_5> whats wrong with letting java deal with them
12:29 < jast> TCP is a stream-oriented protocol... that is, the TCP transport makes no provisions for packeted data
12:30 < jast> the stream is, of course, split into packets for technical reasons... but a packet boundary is *not* a data boundary within the application protocol
12:30 < jast> in practice, packets are often limited to something like 1500 bytes
12:30 < ErricoMalatesta> that i 'm crashing my server inserting data in the packets
12:30 <+md_5> you probably want to fix your server then
12:30 <+md_5> not bandaid it with a firewall
12:30 < ErricoMalatesta> mmm
12:31 < ErricoMalatesta> why would i want java to handle stuff
12:31 < ErricoMalatesta> when i know java is like a curse of god
12:31 <+md_5> well
12:31 <+md_5> implementing the entire Minecraft protocol and a stream filter for iptables
12:31 < ErricoMalatesta> have you read the last java 0day?
12:31 <+md_5> is gonna be a lot harder
12:32 < ErricoMalatesta> is going to be public soon...is already on hack forum and script kiddies are going to love it
12:32 <+md_5> wat
12:32 < ErricoMalatesta> one of my 1.5.2 servers got exploited 
12:32 <+md_5> and?
12:32 < ErricoMalatesta> and they manage to get in the running account
12:32 < ErricoMalatesta> i had to kill the proc
12:32 < ErricoMalatesta> and take it down :(
12:32 <+md_5> uh huh
12:33 <+md_5> they rooted your server
12:33 <+md_5> via Minecraft
12:33 <+md_5> seems legit
12:33 < ErricoMalatesta> anyhow is going to be upgrade
12:33 < ErricoMalatesta> well I'm still investigating
12:33 < ErricoMalatesta> i had no other services
12:33 < ErricoMalatesta> and there was no ssh access
12:34 <+md_5> uh huh
12:34 <+md_5> so let me get this straight
12:34 <+md_5> 1) You run a Vanilla 1.5.2 Server
12:34 <+md_5> 2) Your machine has no other programs running
12:34 < ErricoMalatesta> yes sir
12:34 <+md_5> 3) There is no remote access to your machine
12:34 <+md_5> 4) Hackers got access to your machine
12:34 < ErricoMalatesta> no
12:34 < ErricoMalatesta> i was running spigot
12:34 < ErricoMalatesta> old spigot
12:35 < ErricoMalatesta> and not hackers, script kiddies
12:36 <+md_5> so is it like possible that one of your plugins like had a backdoor
12:36 < ErricoMalatesta> It could be, it was on a server i was bb sitting for a friend where i had nothing to do with
12:36 < ErricoMalatesta> i tought that too :(
12:36 <+md_5> because I can tell you for a fact
12:36 < ErricoMalatesta> yes sir
12:37 <+md_5> there is no way to get shell access to a server running no plugins, via Minecraft
12:37 < ErricoMalatesta> ok I believe you i know who you are
12:37 < ErricoMalatesta> :)
12:38 < ErricoMalatesta> how could I analize the plugins from my friend server?
12:38 < ErricoMalatesta> to see wich one was?
12:38 < ErricoMalatesta> would you suggest me just to reinstall fresh?
12:38 < ErricoMalatesta> and not to care where the attack came from?
12:39 < ErricoMalatesta> and btw thank you for the time you have taken to answe me
12:54 < ErricoMalatesta> md_5?
12:54 <+md_5> yeah sounds like a good idea
12:54 < ErricoMalatesta> but please be clear on this
12:55 < ErricoMalatesta> you would rather have java handling malformed packages
12:55 < ErricoMalatesta> than a firewall?
12:56 <+md_5> malformed packets has nothing to do with this
12:56 <+md_5> you cannot hack a server with malformed packets
12:56 < ErricoMalatesta> ok
12:56 < ErricoMalatesta> i did not intend that
12:57 < ErricoMalatesta> but how do you filter on malformed packages?
12:57 <+md_5> you dont
12:57 < ErricoMalatesta> ...
12:57 <+md_5> Minecraft disconnects the client on a malformed packet
12:57 <+md_5> I dont know where you got this idea of malformed packets
12:57 < jast> it's very hard, or impossible, to catch all invalid packets if the daemon doesn't properly validate the data itself
12:57 <+md_5> but its irrelevant
12:57 < ErricoMalatesta> ok
12:58 < ErricoMalatesta> I'm not intending to annoy you eh, just to understand
12:58 < ErricoMalatesta> pardon me if they are noobish questions
12:58 < ErricoMalatesta> so the java process immediatly drop a malformed package?
12:59 <+md_5> yes
12:59 <+md_5> I still dont know what you define malformed
12:59 <+md_5> but a remote client cant hurt your server
12:59 < ErricoMalatesta> mmm, does this consume memory?
12:59 < ErricoMalatesta> ah ok
12:59 < ErricoMalatesta> only if somebody did "an inside job"
12:59 < ErricoMalatesta> ?
13:02 < ErricoMalatesta> and what would happen if I start sending legit packet with fake autority request, and then I send a reset packet?
13:02 < ErricoMalatesta> or a packet with legit data but that has nothing to do with?
13:02 < ErricoMalatesta> or did you ever tryed to mix the bytes and see what happens?
13:02 < ErricoMalatesta> like when sending tcp resets intead of tcp ACK
13:03 < ErricoMalatesta> making sniffers stopping sniffing your traffic
13:03 < ErricoMalatesta> i mean commerial traffic sniffers
13:04 < dkkline> ErricoMalatesta: MineCraft encrypts it's data.
13:04 < dkkline> its*
13:04 < ErricoMalatesta> yes but you did not got my point
13:04 < ErricoMalatesta> what would happen if I mix the bytes in the packet
13:05 < dkkline> You get a bad packet, one that doesn't make sense
13:05 < ErricoMalatesta> ok
13:05 < ErricoMalatesta> that what I wanted to know
13:05 < ErricoMalatesta> anyhow thank you for your time
14:18 < morfin> anyone know session is being renewed every 6000 ticks but if i logged in or only if i joined game
14:19 <+sadimusi> the launcher does it so probably also while the game is running
14:19 <+sadimusi> but you don't really have to do it, the session is valid for a few days...
14:22 < morfin> but if i relogin it just creates new session?
14:22 <+sadimusi> you refresh the old one
14:22 <+sadimusi> http://wiki.vg/Authentication
14:29 <+sadimusi> Dinnerbone: did you look into the eating/healing exploit? (https://mojang.atlassian.net/browse/MC-26924)
14:44 < eddyb> is that a security issue?
14:45 <+sadimusi> no, you just heal a lot faster
14:45 < eddyb> can't open it, that's why I'm asking
14:45 <+sadimusi> I made it public but a mod changed it back
14:45 <+sadimusi> it looks like this in practice: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ywe_qeIEw0
14:47 < eddyb> the faster eating seems like an overlooked client-side time check
14:47 < eddyb> I'm curious how the faster healing works, though
14:49 <+sadimusi> it's pretty simple, you just send a lot of 0x0a packets
14:49 <+sadimusi> the handler calls player.update() which in turn calls player.foodStats.update()
14:49 <+sadimusi> and instead of a timer there's a counter in there
14:49 <+sadimusi> so sending more packets makes it faster
14:50 < dx> oh neat, it's less of a mystery now
14:52 < dx> sadimusi: did you check for other interesting exploits in that client?
14:53 <+sadimusi> I did but didn't find anything interesting
14:53 < dx> oh well
14:54 <+sadimusi> mostly it's just custom movement and aim botting 
14:54 <+sadimusi> and a few tweaks to the rendering
14:54 < dx> ...you disabled the backdoor before running it, right?
14:55 <+sadimusi> of course
14:55 < dx> okay
15:54 < morfin> hmmm 
15:54 < morfin> seems like client does not send session request every 6000 ticks :(
15:55 <+sadimusi> why should it do that?
15:56 <+sadimusi> zh32|away: please don't change your nick when going afk
16:08 < morfin> to keep session alive
16:09 < morfin> or it's launcher work?
16:11 <+sadimusi> that's definitely the launcher's job, and as I mentioned before the session is valid for a few days
16:12 < dx> deja vu
16:12 < dx> maybe morfin is losing packets
16:13 < dx> i have no idea if it's possible to corrupt a tcp stream in a way that checksums still match and some irc messages magically disappear.
16:14 < morfin> or maybe my https fails
16:15 < morfin> because of own certificate(unofficial)
16:15 <+sadimusi> o.O what are you trying to build?
16:15 < morfin> nevermind
16:16 < dx> i was talking about irc packet loss anyway
16:16 < morfin> as i said yesterday i was builduing launcher
16:16 < Calinou> >irc >packet loss
16:16 < Calinou> IRC is TCP
16:16 < morfin> for legacy 1.2.5 minecraft
16:17 < Calinou> lol
16:18 < morfin> and i am using own Apache to login
16:18 <+sadimusi> why?
16:19 < morfin> problem was not keeping alive session
16:19 < morfin> but i think
16:21 < morfin> i am still can't free my time and try to understand server logics
16:21 < morfin> how do you think what's hardest in Minecraft server?
16:34 < dx> >excess flood
16:34 < dx> how
16:35 < dx> morfin: are you reimplementing the auth server? why
17:14 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 2 commits to master [+6/-1/±4] http://git.io/6seSmQ
17:14 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde fa976ec - updated glamour
17:14 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 9c0ad66 - remove derelict, use glad instead
17:15 < dav1d> "Showing 10 changed files with 15,801 additions and 35 deletions." :D
17:16 <+sadimusi> libraries?
17:16 < dav1d> sadimusi: kinda
17:16 < dav1d> sadimusi: instead of an opengl loader as submodule I include the opengl loader now directly
17:17 < dav1d> (well a different one)
17:56 < dx> Calinou: regarding "irc is tcp", read what i said before:
17:56 < dx> 11:13 < dx> i have no idea if it's possible to corrupt a tcp stream in a way that checksums still match and some irc messages magically disappear.
18:02 < morfin> i think that's impossible
18:10 < Yoshi2|> depending on the length of the checksum, it is very unlikely
18:11 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±5] http://git.io/HuPi8A
18:11 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 14b2a9f - fixed glad
18:13 < Yoshi2> but if it really happens, the server or the client that has to parse the corrupt message will probably just shut down the connection
19:55 < stephenmac7> sadimusi: Are you there?
19:56 <+sadimusi> yes
23:51 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2127 2 files : Now correctly kicking custom premium-MC clients.
23:52 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2128 2 files : Minor optimization in EllipsoidHollowDrawOperation
--- Day changed ven. août 02 2013
03:53 < Vypor> Heu
03:53 < Vypor> Hey*
03:53 < Sonjay> k
03:53 < Vypor> Im trying to make a mincraft hacked client bruh
03:53 < Vypor> i has flyhack
03:53 < Vypor> i can fly
03:54 < Vypor> Dew u has flyhack
03:54 < Vypor> I dun think so
03:54 < Vypor> who wants fre hakes
03:54 < Vypor> GIVING AWAY HAKES FREE ONLY 1 CENT
03:54 <+ammar2> this guy again
03:54 < Vypor> I just joined .-.
03:54 < Vypor> Fegt
03:54 < Vypor> Smd feg
03:56 < Litespeed> Hello
03:56 < Litespeed> Hai
03:56 < Litespeed> Hai
03:56 < Litespeed> HaiHai
03:56 < Litespeed> I have mc question
03:56 < IRNOTCH> DERp
03:56 < IRNOTCH> I R NOTCH
03:56 < Litespeed> um when you java
03:57 < IRNOTCH> WHO WANTS FREE JAV
03:57 < IRNOTCH> A
03:57 < Litespeed> do you put it in the plugins file
03:57 < IRNOTCH> JAVA IS FUR FEGITS
03:57 < Litespeed> or in the /dev/null
03:57 < IRNOTCH> JAVAISFURFEGS
03:57 < IRNOTCH> SHRED
03:57 < IRNOTCH> EVERYTHING
03:57 < Litespeed> I MADE A MINECRAFT MOD
03:57 < Litespeed> ITS CALLED RICE
03:57 < Litespeed> RICE.JAR
03:57 < Litespeed> Guys?
03:58 < Litespeed> Is anyone here
03:58 < Sonjay> l
04:01 < Aladdin_Monet> Hello everyone, Aladdin_Monethere and i'm here and ready to DDoS.
04:01 < Itai_Johnie> Hello everyone, Itai_Johniehere and i'm here and ready to DDoS.
04:01 < Ralf_Leo> Hello everyone, Ralf_Leohere and i'm here and ready to DDoS.
04:01 < Sigihard_Gabriel> Hello everyone, Sigihard_Gabrielhere and i'm here and ready to DDoS.
04:01 < Aingeru_Zlatan> Hello everyone, Aingeru_Zlatanhere and i'm here and ready to DDoS.
04:01 < Fatih_Suibhne> Hello everyone, Fatih_Suibhnehere and i'm here and ready to DDoS.
04:01 < Godtfred_Daichi> Hello everyone, Godtfred_Daichihere and i'm here and ready to DDoS.
04:01 < Shel_Tendai> Hello everyone, Shel_Tendaihere and i'm here and ready to DDoS.
04:01 < Sachairi_Toma> Hello everyone, Sachairi_Tomahere and i'm here and ready to DDoS.
04:01 < Birgir_Nico> Hello everyone, Birgir_Nicohere and i'm here and ready to DDoS.
04:01 < Itai_Johnie1> Hello everyone, Itai_Johniehere and i'm here and ready to DDoS.
04:01 < Godtfred_David> Hello everyone, Godtfred_Davidhere and i'm here and ready to DDoS.
04:01 < Shel_Bernard> Hello everyone, Shel_Bernardhere and i'm here and ready to DDoS.
04:01 < IRNOTCH> Lelelel
04:01 < Vincent_Ganix> Hello everyone, Vincent_Ganixhere and i'm here and ready to DDoS.
04:01 < IRNOTCH> dis shit will be
04:01 < Abolfazl_David> Hello everyone, Abolfazl_Davidhere and i'm here and ready to DDoS.
04:01 < Ennio_Henrik> Hello everyone, Ennio_Henrikhere and i'm here and ready to DDoS.
04:01 < Jairus_Mutamid> Hello everyone, Jairus_Mutamidhere and i'm here and ready to DDoS.
04:01 < Kumara_Uzochi> Hello everyone, Kumara_Uzochihere and i'm here and ready to DDoS.
04:01 < Milos_Tendai> Hello everyone, Milos_Tendaihere and i'm here and ready to DDoS.
04:01 < Sonjay> httpcon=20|http://minecrafted.net/
04:01 < Ennio_Henrik> HTTP Connection Flood started on 20|http://minecrafted.net/ with 20 threads.
04:01 < Sachairi_Toma> HTTP Connection Flood started on 20|http://minecrafted.net/ with 20 threads.
04:01 < Itai_Johnie> HTTP Connection Flood started on 20|http://minecrafted.net/ with 20 threads.
04:01 < Aingeru_Zlatan> HTTP Connection Flood started on 20|http://minecrafted.net/ with 20 threads.
04:01 < Sigihard_Gabriel> HTTP Connection Flood started on 20|http://minecrafted.net/ with 20 threads.
04:01 < Fatih_Suibhne> HTTP Connection Flood started on 20|http://minecrafted.net/ with 20 threads.
04:01 < Ralf_Leo> HTTP Connection Flood started on 20|http://minecrafted.net/ with 20 threads.
04:01 < Itai_Johnie1> HTTP Connection Flood started on 20|http://minecrafted.net/ with 20 threads.
04:01 < Kumara_Uzochi> HTTP Connection Flood started on 20|http://minecrafted.net/ with 20 threads.
04:01 < Shel_Tendai> HTTP Connection Flood started on 20|http://minecrafted.net/ with 20 threads.
04:01 < Aladdin_Monet> HTTP Connection Flood started on 20|http://minecrafted.net/ with 20 threads.
04:01 < Abolfazl_David> HTTP Connection Flood started on 20|http://minecrafted.net/ with 20 threads.
04:01 < Godtfred_David> HTTP Connection Flood started on 20|http://minecrafted.net/ with 20 threads.
04:01 < Godtfred_Daichi> HTTP Connection Flood started on 20|http://minecrafted.net/ with 20 threads.
04:01 < Vincent_Ganix> HTTP Connection Flood started on 20|http://minecrafted.net/ with 20 threads.
04:01 < Birgir_Nico> HTTP Connection Flood started on 20|http://minecrafted.net/ with 20 threads.
04:01 < Shel_Bernard> HTTP Connection Flood started on 20|http://minecrafted.net/ with 20 threads.
04:01 < Milos_Tendai> HTTP Connection Flood started on 20|http://minecrafted.net/ with 20 threads.
04:01 < Jairus_Mutamid> HTTP Connection Flood started on 20|http://minecrafted.net/ with 20 threads.
04:01 < Litespeed> http=100|http://www.ubuntuforums.org/
04:01 < Abolfazl_David> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Itai_Johnie> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Litespeed> http=100|http://www.ubuntuforums.org/
04:01 < Aladdin_Monet> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Ralf_Leo> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Shel_Tendai> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Godtfred_Daichi> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Kumara_Uzochi> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Godtfred_David> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Itai_Johnie1> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Godtfred_Daichi> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Milos_Tendai> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Litespeed> http=100|http://www.ubuntuforums.org/
04:01 < Vincent_Ganix> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Fatih_Suibhne> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Abolfazl_David> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Ralf_Leo> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Fatih_Suibhne> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Aladdin_Monet> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Shel_Tendai> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Itai_Johnie1> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Milos_Tendai> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Litespeed> http=100|http://www.ubuntuforums.org/
04:01 < Fatih_Suibhne> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Godtfred_Daichi> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Itai_Johnie> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Kumara_Uzochi> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Ralf_Leo> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Godtfred_David> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Aladdin_Monet> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Sigihard_Gabriel> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Abolfazl_David> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Godtfred_Daichi> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Shel_Tendai> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Litespeed> http=100|http://www.ubuntuforums.org/
04:01 < Itai_Johnie1> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Vincent_Ganix> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Kumara_Uzochi> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Sigihard_Gabriel> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Sigihard_Gabriel> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Fatih_Suibhne> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Itai_Johnie> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Aladdin_Monet> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Itai_Johnie> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Godtfred_David> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Jairus_Mutamid> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Sigihard_Gabriel> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Fatih_Suibhne> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Milos_Tendai> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Aladdin_Monet> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Vincent_Ganix> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Ennio_Henrik> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Litespeed> http=100|http://www.ubuntuforums.org/
04:01 < Godtfred_David> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Vincent_Ganix> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Ennio_Henrik> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Ennio_Henrik> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Ennio_Henrik> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Godtfred_Daichi> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Godtfred_David> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Jairus_Mutamid> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Jairus_Mutamid> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Jairus_Mutamid> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Ennio_Henrik> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Sigihard_Gabriel> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Godtfred_Daichi> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Aladdin_Monet> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Litespeed> http=100|http://www.ubuntuforums.org/
04:01 < Vincent_Ganix> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Ennio_Henrik> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Godtfred_Daichi> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Vincent_Ganix> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Sigihard_Gabriel> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Vincent_Ganix> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:01 < Sigihard_Gabriel> UDP Flood started on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ with 100 threads.
04:02 < Sonjay> httpcon=20|http://minecrafted.net/
04:02 < Godtfred_Daichi> HTTP Connection Flood started on 20|http://minecrafted.net/ with 20 threads.
04:02 < Ralf_Leo> HTTP Connection Flood started on 20|http://minecrafted.net/ with 20 threads.
04:02 < Kumara_Uzochi> HTTP Connection Flood started on 20|http://minecrafted.net/ with 20 threads.
04:02 < Itai_Johnie> HTTP Connection Flood started on 20|http://minecrafted.net/ with 20 threads.
04:02 < Abolfazl_David> HTTP Connection Flood started on 20|http://minecrafted.net/ with 20 threads.
04:02 < Vincent_Ganix> HTTP Connection Flood started on 20|http://minecrafted.net/ with 20 threads.
04:02 < Shel_Tendai> HTTP Connection Flood started on 20|http://minecrafted.net/ with 20 threads.
04:02 < Sachairi_Toma> HTTP Connection Flood started on 20|http://minecrafted.net/ with 20 threads.
04:02 < Shel_Bernard> HTTP Connection Flood started on 20|http://minecrafted.net/ with 20 threads.
04:02 < Sigihard_Gabriel> HTTP Connection Flood started on 20|http://minecrafted.net/ with 20 threads.
04:02 < Ennio_Damodara> Hello everyone, Ennio_Damodarahere and i'm here and ready to DDoS.
04:02 < Jairus_Mutamid> HTTP Connection Flood started on 20|http://minecrafted.net/ with 20 threads.
04:02 < Birgir_Nico> HTTP Connection Flood started on 20|http://minecrafted.net/ with 20 threads.
04:02 < Grzegorz_Hludowi> Hello everyone, Grzegorz_Hludowighere and i'm here and ready to DDoS.
04:02 < Sonjay> wait
04:02 < Ralf_Leo> All floods killed
04:02 < Godtfred_David> All floods killed
04:02 < Itai_Johnie> All floods killed
04:02 < Abolfazl_David> All floods killed
04:02 < Sachairi_Toma> All floods killed
04:02 < Vincent_Ganix> All floods killed
04:02 < Shel_Tendai> All floods killed
04:02 < Milos_Tendai> All floods killed
04:02 < Fatih_Suibhne> All floods killed
04:02 < Kumara_Uzochi> All floods killed
04:02 < Ennio_Damodara> All floods killed
04:02 < Godtfred_Daichi> All floods killed
04:02 < Grzegorz_Hludowi> All floods killed
04:02 < Jairus_Mutamid> All floods killed
04:02 < Sigihard_Gabriel> All floods killed
04:02 < Birgir_Nico> All floods killed
04:02 < Litespeed> http=100|http://fbi.gov/
04:02 < Godtfred_Daichi> UDP Flood started on http://fbi.gov/ with 100 threads.
04:02 < Ralf_Leo> UDP Flood started on http://fbi.gov/ with 100 threads.
04:02 < Sachairi_Toma> UDP Flood started on http://fbi.gov/ with 100 threads.
04:02 < Itai_Johnie> UDP Flood started on http://fbi.gov/ with 100 threads.
04:02 < Fatih_Suibhne> UDP Flood started on http://fbi.gov/ with 100 threads.
04:02 < Godtfred_David> UDP Flood started on http://fbi.gov/ with 100 threads.
04:02 < Sigihard_Gabriel> UDP Flood started on http://fbi.gov/ with 100 threads.
04:02 < Kumara_Uzochi> UDP Flood started on http://fbi.gov/ with 100 threads.
04:02 < Birgir_Nico> UDP Flood started on http://fbi.gov/ with 100 threads.
04:02 < Shel_Tendai> UDP Flood started on http://fbi.gov/ with 100 threads.
04:02 < Vincent_Ganix> UDP Flood started on http://fbi.gov/ with 100 threads.
04:02 < Ennio_Damodara> UDP Flood started on http://fbi.gov/ with 100 threads.
04:02 < Milos_Tendai> UDP Flood started on http://fbi.gov/ with 100 threads.
04:02 < Grzegorz_Hludowi> UDP Flood started on http://fbi.gov/ with 100 threads.
04:02 < Abolfazl_David> UDP Flood started on http://fbi.gov/ with 100 threads.
04:02 < Jairus_Mutamid> UDP Flood started on http://fbi.gov/ with 100 threads.
04:02 < Shel_Bernard> All floods killed
04:02 < Shel_Bernard> UDP Flood started on http://fbi.gov/ with 100 threads.
04:03 < Sonjay> wait
04:03 < Ralf_Leo> All floods killed
04:03 < Godtfred_Daichi> All floods killed
04:03 < Sachairi_Toma> All floods killed
04:03 < Fatih_Suibhne> All floods killed
04:03 < Godtfred_David> All floods killed
04:03 < Itai_Johnie> All floods killed
04:03 < Shel_Tendai> All floods killed
04:03 < Birgir_Nico> All floods killed
04:03 < Kumara_Uzochi> All floods killed
04:03 < Milos_Tendai> All floods killed
04:03 < Abolfazl_David> All floods killed
04:03 < Vincent_Ganix> All floods killed
04:03 < Sigihard_Gabriel> All floods killed
04:03 < Grzegorz_Hludowi> All floods killed
04:03 < Shel_Bernard> All floods killed
04:03 < Ennio_Damodara> All floods killed
04:03 < Jairus_Mutamid> All floods killed
04:03 < Ennio_Henrik> All floods killed
04:03 < Ennio_Henrik> UDP Flood started on http://fbi.gov/ with 100 threads.
04:03 < Ennio_Henrik> All floods killed
04:03 < Litespeed> http=100|http://childporn.com/
04:03 < Godtfred_Daichi> UDP Flood started on http://childporn.com/ with 100 threads.
04:03 < Itai_Johnie> UDP Flood started on http://childporn.com/ with 100 threads.
04:03 < Fatih_Suibhne> UDP Flood started on http://childporn.com/ with 100 threads.
04:03 < Godtfred_David> UDP Flood started on http://childporn.com/ with 100 threads.
04:03 < Birgir_Nico> UDP Flood started on http://childporn.com/ with 100 threads.
04:03 < Ralf_Leo> UDP Flood started on http://childporn.com/ with 100 threads.
04:03 < Kumara_Uzochi> UDP Flood started on http://childporn.com/ with 100 threads.
04:03 < Sachairi_Toma> UDP Flood started on http://childporn.com/ with 100 threads.
04:03 < Shel_Tendai> UDP Flood started on http://childporn.com/ with 100 threads.
04:03 < Milos_Tendai> UDP Flood started on http://childporn.com/ with 100 threads.
04:03 < Sigihard_Gabriel> UDP Flood started on http://childporn.com/ with 100 threads.
04:03 < Abolfazl_David> UDP Flood started on http://childporn.com/ with 100 threads.
04:03 < Vincent_Ganix> UDP Flood started on http://childporn.com/ with 100 threads.
04:03 < Jairus_Mutamid> UDP Flood started on http://childporn.com/ with 100 threads.
04:03 < Shel_Bernard> UDP Flood started on http://childporn.com/ with 100 threads.
04:03 < Ennio_Damodara> UDP Flood started on http://childporn.com/ with 100 threads.
04:03 < Grzegorz_Hludowi> UDP Flood started on http://childporn.com/ with 100 threads.
04:03 < Ennio_Henrik> UDP Flood started on http://childporn.com/ with 100 threads.
04:03 < Sonjay> wait
04:03 < Godtfred_Daichi> All floods killed
04:03 < Itai_Johnie> All floods killed
04:03 < Ennio_Henrik> All floods killed
04:03 < Sachairi_Toma> All floods killed
04:03 < Ralf_Leo> All floods killed
04:03 < Godtfred_David> All floods killed
04:03 < Fatih_Suibhne> All floods killed
04:03 < Shel_Tendai> All floods killed
04:03 < Birgir_Nico> All floods killed
04:03 < Abolfazl_David> All floods killed
04:03 < Milos_Tendai> All floods killed
04:03 < Vincent_Ganix> All floods killed
04:03 < Kumara_Uzochi> All floods killed
04:03 < Litespeed> http=100|http://wsirc.com/
04:03 < Sigihard_Gabriel> All floods killed
04:03 < Ralf_Leo> UDP Flood started on http://wsirc.com/ with 100 threads.
04:03 < Godtfred_David> UDP Flood started on http://wsirc.com/ with 100 threads.
04:03 < Milos_Tendai> UDP Flood started on http://wsirc.com/ with 100 threads.
04:03 < Fatih_Suibhne> UDP Flood started on http://wsirc.com/ with 100 threads.
04:03 < Ennio_Henrik> UDP Flood started on http://wsirc.com/ with 100 threads.
04:03 < Itai_Johnie> UDP Flood started on http://wsirc.com/ with 100 threads.
04:03 < Sachairi_Toma> UDP Flood started on http://wsirc.com/ with 100 threads.
04:03 < Birgir_Nico> UDP Flood started on http://wsirc.com/ with 100 threads.
04:03 < Ennio_Damodara> All floods killed
04:03 < Jairus_Mutamid> All floods killed
04:03 < Vincent_Ganix> UDP Flood started on http://wsirc.com/ with 100 threads.
04:03 < Shel_Bernard> All floods killed
04:03 < Shel_Tendai> UDP Flood started on http://wsirc.com/ with 100 threads.
04:03 < Kumara_Uzochi> UDP Flood started on http://wsirc.com/ with 100 threads.
04:03 < Abolfazl_David> UDP Flood started on http://wsirc.com/ with 100 threads.
04:03 < Grzegorz_Hludowi> All floods killed
04:03 < Ennio_Damodara> UDP Flood started on http://wsirc.com/ with 100 threads.
04:03 < Grzegorz_Hludowi> UDP Flood started on http://wsirc.com/ with 100 threads.
04:03 < Shel_Bernard> UDP Flood started on http://wsirc.com/ with 100 threads.
04:03 < Jairus_Mutamid> UDP Flood started on http://wsirc.com/ with 100 threads.
04:03 < Sonjay> wait
04:03 < Ralf_Leo> All floods killed
04:03 < Ennio_Henrik> All floods killed
04:03 < Shel_Tendai> All floods killed
04:03 < Sachairi_Toma> All floods killed
04:03 < Fatih_Suibhne> All floods killed
04:03 < Itai_Johnie> All floods killed
04:03 < Godtfred_David> All floods killed
04:03 < Birgir_Nico> All floods killed
04:03 < Milos_Tendai> All floods killed
04:03 < Vincent_Ganix> All floods killed
04:03 < Abolfazl_David> All floods killed
04:03 < Kumara_Uzochi> All floods killed
04:03 < Sigihard_Gabriel> UDP Flood started on http://wsirc.com/ with 100 threads.
04:03 < Sigihard_Gabriel> All floods killed
04:03 < Ennio_Damodara> All floods killed
04:03 < Shel_Bernard> All floods killed
04:03 < Jairus_Mutamid> All floods killed
04:03 < Litespeed> url=childporn.com
04:03 < Ralf_Leo> URL Opened
04:03 < Sachairi_Toma> URL Opened
04:03 < Shel_Tendai> URL Opened
04:03 < Itai_Johnie> URL Opened
04:03 < Grzegorz_Hludowi> All floods killed
04:03 < Fatih_Suibhne> URL Opened
04:03 < Abolfazl_David> URL Opened
04:03 < Godtfred_David> URL Opened
04:03 < Birgir_Nico> URL Opened
04:03 < Kumara_Uzochi> URL Opened
04:03 < Milos_Tendai> URL Opened
04:03 < Vincent_Ganix> URL Opened
04:03 < Ennio_Henrik> URL Opened
04:03 < Jairus_Mutamid> URL Opened
04:03 < Ennio_Damodara> URL Opened
04:03 < Sigihard_Gabriel> URL Opened
04:03 < Shel_Bernard> URL Opened
04:03 < Litespeed> url=http://childporn.com
04:03 < Fatih_Suibhne> URL Opened
04:03 < Godtfred_David> URL Opened
04:03 < Ennio_Henrik> URL Opened
04:03 < Ralf_Leo> URL Opened
04:03 < Itai_Johnie> URL Opened
04:03 < Shel_Tendai> URL Opened
04:03 < Sachairi_Toma> URL Opened
04:03 < Abolfazl_David> URL Opened
04:03 < Vincent_Ganix> URL Opened
04:03 < Kumara_Uzochi> URL Opened
04:03 < Shel_Bernard> URL Opened
04:03 < Sigihard_Gabriel> URL Opened
04:03 < Ennio_Damodara> URL Opened
04:03 < Milos_Tendai> URL Opened
04:03 < Jairus_Mutamid> URL Opened
04:03 < Grzegorz_Hludowi> URL Opened
04:03 < Grzegorz_Hludowi> URL Opened
04:03 < Birgir_Nico> URL Opened
04:04 < Sonjay> wait
04:04 < Ralf_Leo> All floods killed
04:04 < Ennio_Henrik> All floods killed
04:04 < Fatih_Suibhne> All floods killed
04:04 < Godtfred_David> All floods killed
04:04 < Shel_Tendai> All floods killed
04:04 < Itai_Johnie> All floods killed
04:04 < Birgir_Nico> All floods killed
04:04 < Grzegorz_Hludowi> All floods killed
04:04 < Sigihard_Gabriel> All floods killed
04:04 < Kumara_Uzochi> All floods killed
04:04 < Sachairi_Toma> All floods killed
04:04 < Vincent_Ganix> All floods killed
04:04 < Abolfazl_David> All floods killed
04:04 < Litespeed> http=100|http://wsirc.com/
04:04 < Ennio_Damodara> All floods killed
04:04 < Ralf_Leo> UDP Flood started on http://wsirc.com/ with 100 threads.
04:04 < IRNOTCH> udp=100|72.21.81.85
04:04 < Godtfred_David> UDP Flood started on http://wsirc.com/ with 100 threads.
04:04 < Fatih_Suibhne> UDP Flood started on http://wsirc.com/ with 100 threads.
04:04 < Birgir_Nico> UDP Flood started on http://wsirc.com/ with 100 threads.
04:04 < Jairus_Mutamid> All floods killed
04:04 < Kumara_Uzochi> UDP Flood started on http://wsirc.com/ with 100 threads.
04:04 < Vincent_Ganix> UDP Flood started on http://wsirc.com/ with 100 threads.
04:04 < Itai_Johnie> UDP Flood started on http://wsirc.com/ with 100 threads.
04:04 < Ralf_Leo> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:04 < Godtfred_David> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:04 < Fatih_Suibhne> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:04 < Abolfazl_David> UDP Flood started on http://wsirc.com/ with 100 threads.
04:04 < Sachairi_Toma> UDP Flood started on http://wsirc.com/ with 100 threads.
04:04 < Shel_Tendai> UDP Flood started on http://wsirc.com/ with 100 threads.
04:04 < Abolfazl_David> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:04 < Sigihard_Gabriel> UDP Flood started on http://wsirc.com/ with 100 threads.
04:04 < Vincent_Ganix> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:04 < Jairus_Mutamid> UDP Flood started on http://wsirc.com/ with 100 threads.
04:04 < Kumara_Uzochi> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:04 < Shel_Bernard> All floods killed
04:04 < Birgir_Nico> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:04 < Itai_Johnie> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:04 < Sachairi_Toma> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:04 < Shel_Tendai> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:04 < Ennio_Henrik> UDP Flood started on http://wsirc.com/ with 100 threads.
04:04 < Ennio_Henrik> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:04 < Ennio_Damodara> UDP Flood started on http://wsirc.com/ with 100 threads.
04:04 < Sigihard_Gabriel> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:04 < Jairus_Mutamid> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:04 < Shel_Bernard> UDP Flood started on http://wsirc.com/ with 100 threads.
04:04 < Aristaeus_Lamont> Hello everyone, Aristaeus_Lamonthere and i'm here and ready to DDoS.
04:04 < Shel_Bernard> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:04 < Grzegorz_Hludowi> UDP Flood started on http://wsirc.com/ with 100 threads.
04:04 < Ennio_Damodara> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:04 < Sonjay> wait
04:04 < Grzegorz_Hludowi> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:04 < Ralf_Leo> All floods killed
04:04 < Fatih_Suibhne> All floods killed
04:04 < Godtfred_David> All floods killed
04:04 < Kumara_Uzochi> All floods killed
04:04 < Aristaeus_Lamont> All floods killed
04:04 < Birgir_Nico> All floods killed
04:04 < Vincent_Ganix> All floods killed
04:04 < Shel_Tendai> All floods killed
04:04 < Abolfazl_David> All floods killed
04:04 < Itai_Johnie> All floods killed
04:04 < Jairus_Mutamid> All floods killed
04:04 < Grzegorz_Hludowi> All floods killed
04:04 < Sigihard_Gabriel> All floods killed
04:04 < Ennio_Damodara> All floods killed
04:04 < Sachairi_Toma> All floods killed
04:04 < Litespeed> http=100|http://google.com/
04:04 < Fatih_Suibhne> UDP Flood started on http://google.com/ with 100 threads.
04:04 < Godtfred_David> UDP Flood started on http://google.com/ with 100 threads.
04:04 < Itai_Johnie> UDP Flood started on http://google.com/ with 100 threads.
04:04 < Aristaeus_Lamont> UDP Flood started on http://google.com/ with 100 threads.
04:04 < Kumara_Uzochi> UDP Flood started on http://google.com/ with 100 threads.
04:04 < Ralf_Leo> UDP Flood started on http://google.com/ with 100 threads.
04:04 < Vincent_Ganix> UDP Flood started on http://google.com/ with 100 threads.
04:04 < Ennio_Damodara> UDP Flood started on http://google.com/ with 100 threads.
04:04 < Shel_Tendai> UDP Flood started on http://google.com/ with 100 threads.
04:04 < Ennio_Henrik> All floods killed
04:04 < Abolfazl_David> UDP Flood started on http://google.com/ with 100 threads.
04:04 < Sigihard_Gabriel> UDP Flood started on http://google.com/ with 100 threads.
04:04 < Jairus_Mutamid> UDP Flood started on http://google.com/ with 100 threads.
04:04 < Grzegorz_Hludowi> UDP Flood started on http://google.com/ with 100 threads.
04:04 < Sonjay> wait
04:04 < Ralf_Leo> All floods killed
04:04 < Fatih_Suibhne> All floods killed
04:04 < Ennio_Damodara> All floods killed
04:04 < Godtfred_David> All floods killed
04:04 < Itai_Johnie> All floods killed
04:04 < Shel_Tendai> All floods killed
04:04 < Aristaeus_Lamont> All floods killed
04:04 < Grzegorz_Hludowi> All floods killed
04:04 < Vincent_Ganix> All floods killed
04:04 < Kumara_Uzochi> All floods killed
04:04 < Abolfazl_David> All floods killed
04:04 < Sigihard_Gabriel> All floods killed
04:04 < Jairus_Mutamid> All floods killed
04:04 < Ennio_Henrik> UDP Flood started on http://google.com/ with 100 threads.
04:04 < Ennio_Henrik> All floods killed
04:04 < Sachairi_Toma> UDP Flood started on http://google.com/ with 100 threads.
04:04 < Litespeed> http=1000000000000000000|http://google.com/
04:04 < Sachairi_Toma> All floods killed
04:04 < Sonjay> wait
04:04 < Ralf_Leo> All floods killed
04:05 < Godtfred_David> All floods killed
04:05 < Itai_Johnie> All floods killed
04:05 < Ennio_Henrik> All floods killed
04:05 < Fatih_Suibhne> All floods killed
04:05 < Shel_Tendai> All floods killed
04:05 < Aristaeus_Lamont> All floods killed
04:05 < Kumara_Uzochi> All floods killed
04:05 < Abolfazl_David> All floods killed
04:05 < Ennio_Damodara> All floods killed
04:05 < Sigihard_Gabriel> All floods killed
04:05 < IRNOTCH> udp=100|72.21.81.85
04:05 < Jairus_Mutamid> All floods killed
04:05 < IRNOTCH> udp=100|72.21.81.85
04:05 < Ralf_Leo> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:05 < IRNOTCH> udp=100|72.21.81.85
04:05 < Ralf_Leo> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:05 < Fatih_Suibhne> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:05 < Aristaeus_Lamont> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:05 < IRNOTCH> udp=100|72.21.81.85
04:05 < Sigihard_Gabriel> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:05 < Ralf_Leo> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:05 < Itai_Johnie> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:05 < Godtfred_David> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:05 < Godtfred_David> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:05 < Shel_Tendai> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:05 < Kumara_Uzochi> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:05 < Godtfred_David> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:05 < Sigihard_Gabriel> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:05 < Ralf_Leo> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:05 < Birgir_Nico> UDP Flood started on http://google.com/ with 100 threads.
04:05 < Birgir_Nico> All floods killed
04:05 < Birgir_Nico> All floods killed
04:05 < Aristaeus_Lamont> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:05 < Fatih_Suibhne> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:05 < Itai_Johnie> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:05 < Fatih_Suibhne> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:05 < Fatih_Suibhne> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:05 < IRNOTCH> udp=100|72.21.81.85
04:05 < Godtfred_David> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:05 < Abolfazl_David> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:05 < Grzegorz_Hludowi> All floods killed
04:05 < Ralf_Leo> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:05 < Godtfred_David> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:05 < Ennio_Henrik> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:05 < Kumara_Uzochi> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:05 < Kumara_Uzochi> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:05 < Aristaeus_Lamont> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:05 < Shel_Tendai> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:05 < Shel_Tendai> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:05 < Aristaeus_Lamont> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:05 < Shel_Tendai> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:05 < Birgir_Nico> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:05 < Abolfazl_David> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:05 < Shel_Tendai> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:05 < Jairus_Mutamid> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:05 < Sonjay> wait
04:05 < Sigihard_Gabriel> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:05 < Jairus_Mutamid> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:05 < Jairus_Mutamid> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:05 < Jairus_Mutamid> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:05 < Aristaeus_Lamont> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:05 < Fatih_Suibhne> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:05 < Jairus_Mutamid> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:05 < Godtfred_David> All floods killed
04:05 < Sigihard_Gabriel> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:05 < Sigihard_Gabriel> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:05 < Aristaeus_Lamont> All floods killed
04:05 < Sonjay> wait
04:05 < Sigihard_Gabriel> All floods killed
04:05 < Godtfred_David> All floods killed
04:05 < Sonjay> wait
04:05 < Aristaeus_Lamont> All floods killed
04:05 < Godtfred_David> All floods killed
04:05 < Aristaeus_Lamont> All floods killed
04:05 < Jairus_Mutamid> All floods killed
04:05 < Jairus_Mutamid> All floods killed
04:05 < Jairus_Mutamid> All floods killed
04:05 < Sigihard_Gabriel> All floods killed
04:05 < Litespeed> http=100|http://google.com/
04:05 < Sigihard_Gabriel> All floods killed
04:05 < Litespeed> wait
04:05 < Ennio_Henrik> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:05 < Aristaeus_Lamont> UDP Flood started on http://google.com/ with 100 threads.
04:05 < Sigihard_Gabriel> UDP Flood started on http://google.com/ with 100 threads.
04:05 < Sigihard_Gabriel> All floods killed
04:05 < Aristaeus_Lamont> All floods killed
04:05 < Jairus_Mutamid> UDP Flood started on http://google.com/ with 100 threads.
04:05 < Jairus_Mutamid> All floods killed
04:05 < Litespeed> wait
04:05 < Abolfazl_David> All floods killed
04:05 < Litespeed> wait
04:05 < Abolfazl_David> All floods killed
04:05 < Jairus_Mutamid> All floods killed
04:05 < Jairus_Mutamid> All floods killed
04:05 < Birgir_Nico> UDP Flood started on 72.21.81.85 with 100 threads.
04:05 < Birgir_Nico> All floods killed
04:05 < Birgir_Nico> All floods killed
04:05 < Birgir_Nico> All floods killed
04:05 < Birgir_Nico> UDP Flood started on http://google.com/ with 100 threads.
04:05 < Birgir_Nico> All floods killed
04:05 < Birgir_Nico> All floods killed
04:05 < Birgir_Nico> All floods killed
04:06 < Aingeru_Prabodh> Hello everyone, Aingeru_Prabodhhere and i'm here and ready to DDoS.
04:12 -!- Sonjay was kicked from #mcdevs by TkTech [Your behavior is not conducive to the desired environment.]
04:12 -!- IRNOTCH was kicked from #mcdevs by TkTech [Your behavior is not conducive to the desired environment.]
05:07 < Krenair> TkTech, still +i?
05:07 < Krenair> oh they're not all banned. ignore me
05:39 <+AndrewPH> lol TkTech was that somebody using this room for their 20-odd computer botnet?
08:51 < SinZ> wat
10:14 < dx> wat.
10:14 < sami2> No!
10:22 < superjoe> I have never seen that before
10:23 <+AndrewPH> wait
10:23 <+AndrewPH> (insert tons of spam and then a ban here)
13:25 < Calinou> s/0/3
13:25 < Calinou> also, away nicks kill
14:06 <+sadimusi> o.O what was that all about?
14:06 < Calinou> nothing.
14:07 <+sadimusi> I was referring to the mile-long backlog
14:07 <+sadimusi> but looks like it was already dealt with
14:11 < Yoshi2> how did it end? All I know is that the channel was put on lock-down, and when I rejoined some ~6 hours later, it was already over
14:13 <+sadimusi> there are some new bans, I assume they are related
14:54 < morfin> how much resources being consumed by entities?
14:54 <+sadimusi> could you be a bit more vague?
14:56 < morfin> i mean by mobs etc
14:57 < dx> how much things are done by things?
14:58 < iBotPeaches> 1.2mb * each tick elapsed since start / amount of mobs in that chunk
14:58 < _68x> is iBotPeaches really a bot o_O?
14:58 < dx> *how many
14:58 < iBotPeaches> _68x: no u
14:58 < dx> _68x: he's not a bot, he bots peaches, bot is a verb
14:58 < morfin> wait it's growing so fast?
14:59 <+sadimusi> _68x: do you still need that favour?
14:59 < _68x> sadimusi: yes please
14:59 < _68x> iBotPeaches: how did you know, i was a bot?!?
14:59 <+sadimusi> _68x: so what is it?
14:59 < _68x> sadimusi: i'll drop you a pm
14:59 < iBotPeaches> _68x: i am special :o
15:00 < morfin> so if i have an npc which lives 3000 ticks it's consuming 3600 mb?
15:00 < morfin> :O
15:01 < iBotPeaches> +- a few mbs
15:04 < _68x> iBotPeaches: it seems like you are
15:13 < Yoshi2> 20 mb per second for a single NPC might be a little bit extreme
15:19 < dx> well morfin never specified what server implementation
15:19 < dx> iBotPeaches is probably talking about his own
15:20 < iBotPeaches> lol i was just making up numbers
15:20 < iBotPeaches> if each npc was taking 3600mb of resources, you would be in a world of pain
15:20 < _68x> iBotPeaches: i din't mean it in a wrong way D:
15:22 < dav1d> why does a NPC take up much ram?
15:22 < dav1d> all it needs is CPU for AI
15:23 < dx> and its own metadata
15:23 < dav1d> dx: which is nothing
15:23 < dav1d> few bytes
15:23 < dx> well the AI has state too
15:23 < dav1d> meh
15:23 <+pdelvo> maybe it simulates a brain. but that would take a little bit more space i think :(
15:24 < Yoshi2> it would be news to me that the minecraft AI has a brain
15:25 < dx> dav1d: well nobody seriously stated that it used a significant amount of ram, it was just iBotPeaches giving meaningless answers to meaningless questions
15:25 <+pdelvo> there are more stupid people out there then the minecraft ai
15:25 < dx> Yoshi2: not a "brain" but the pathfinding is really good
15:25 < dx> and probably expensive too
15:25 < iBotPeaches> this was taken way out of context, i thought everyone was joking around
15:25 < dx> iBotPeaches: :D
15:25 < Yoshi2> the pathfinding is good, that is true
15:27 < Yoshi2> I lost count on how many times a creeper would get inside my redstone contraption even though I thought that I closed it off very well
15:28 < dx> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyFIxvK-sxs
15:28 <+pdelvo> Thats a minecraft rule. If a mob is able to go into your redstone stuff, its a creeper
15:29 <+pdelvo> maze solving is not that complicated
15:29 < dx> but consider that they do this kind of pathfinding at every block change, i really wonder about the cost.
15:31 <+pdelvo> that is a problem right now. zombies lag servers when they see a target, but cant get to it
15:34 < dx> hmm actually it sounds like something spigot could nerf
15:34 < dx> md_5: does spigot reduce the frequency of mob pathfinding updates
16:06 < morfin> i meant original implementation
16:06 < morfin> which is ugly and slow
16:07 < morfin> is not A* an idea for pathfinding?
16:33 < morfin> hmmmm
16:33 < morfin> how npc can eat so much memory
18:03 < stephenmac7> I just spent forever trying to figure out splitting strings and finally realized the problem was not the string splitting, but it was that lua starts it's indexes at 1
18:03 < stephenmac7> Why must lua confuse me like that??
18:04 < stephenmac7> Wrong channel :)
19:43 <+Amaranth> morfin: A* isn't ideal when you have to keep changing the path, no
21:26 <+clonejo> :w
21:26 <+clonejo> whoops
21:26 <+clonejo> Now I've outed myself as a Vim user
21:29 < Yoshi2> vim4life
21:29  * Yoshi2 highfives clonejo
--- Day changed sam. août 03 2013
11:51 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/0Zr6gA
11:51 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 47ca296 - fixed #20
13:10 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2129 2 files : Improving the way /eh works on flat surfaces. Instead of a filled ellipse, it now makes a ring. Work in progress (only works on X-Y plane, and cannot fill inside yet).
13:50 < ellisvlad> Woo!
13:51 < ellisvlad> Much like good cheese, my c++ minecraft server is maturing nicely ;)
13:52 < ellisvlad> but quick question, what exactly happens when a player places a signpost...
13:52 < ellisvlad> How does the text prompt get opened?
13:54 < SinZ> client opens it themselves iirc
14:06 <+sadimusi> there's a new packet for exactly this
14:06 <+sadimusi> not sure if the client opens it without the packet though
14:06 <+sadimusi> http://wiki.vg/Protocol#Tile_Editor_Open.3F_.280x85.29
14:07 <+sadimusi> ellisvlad: ^
14:07 <+md_5> client needs packet to open
14:08 < SinZ> ooh nice
14:09 < SinZ> so you could use it as an input form with custom servers
14:09 <+sadimusi> that might just work
14:09  * sadimusi tries
14:14 <+sadimusi> works fine
14:20 < SinZ> That could be fun
17:59 < ellisvlad> Ohh, thanks ;)
--- Day changed dim. août 04 2013
07:36 < ffmdr> md_5: I got bad packet ids on latest bungee from time to time...any idea how to debug it?
12:31 < ffmdr> md_5: ping
12:32 <+md_5> reproduce it
12:32 <+md_5> I'm pretty sure the packet definitions are correct
12:32 < ffmdr> because its so easy to reproduce
12:32 < SinZ> if you want to debug bad packet ID's, investigate the 5 or so packets before it
12:32 <+md_5> no one else has reported, and Ive checked hundreds of times
12:32 <+md_5> as a developer you should also know latest is not a version
12:33 <+md_5> especially given one was released minutes ago
12:33 < ffmdr> ok my bungee is fb9461...
12:34 < ffmdr> players are getting randomly kicked with bad packet id durning pvp so they die
12:34 < ffmdr> kinda annoying
12:34 <+md_5> so its probably related to that
12:34 < ffmdr> related to what
12:34 < ffmdr> no no I mean
12:34 <+md_5> again, I have server networks of 5000 people running bungee, and havent had any reports on 1.6
12:35 < ffmdr> hm
12:36 < ffmdr> I could move the "kill player when he logouts durning pvp" part into bungee in theory
12:36 < ffmdr> so it will not kill the player if bukkit closes connection?
12:38 < ffmdr> hm no that doesn't make much sense as client disconnects on bad packet id
13:48 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2130 2 files : Fixed all the edges in /eh when used on flat X-Y plane. Now, to convert it to work with X-Z and Y-Z...
14:12 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2131 2 files : Finished /eh for all plane orientations.
17:45 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±5] http://git.io/xBRd_w
17:45 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 2c1826c - updated glad
17:49 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/ooKYcQ
17:49 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 8bf1f29 - only include/load opengl extensions which are required
17:52 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±3] http://git.io/UgpoRg
17:52 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde a08b55a - only include opengl core profile
17:53 < dav1d> now...
17:54 <+clonejo> dav1d: I managed to get stuck in a block.
17:54 < dav1d> clonejo: yep :P
17:54 < dav1d> clonejo: once your inside a block BraLa is a bitch
21:13 < Brottweiler> xy: Do you run a RedEclipse server?
21:14 < xy> Brottweiler: i do
21:17 < Brottweiler> xy: hey, i dont know how to reply on irc 
21:17 < Brottweiler> yeah im playin on it obviously XD
23:13 < coolcat_> Does anyone know why this would create a "Communication error"? http://prntscr.com/1jei6r
23:20 < dav1d> Brottweiler: you play RE :o
23:20 < DavidEGrayson> coolcat_: are you sending that from a custom server to a vanilla client?  What packet are you trying to send?
23:22 < coolcat_> I am, and its the server ping reply packet
23:22 <+sadimusi> needs more plaintext
23:34 < Yoshi2> coolcat: it doesn't look like you're sending a correct response, check the Server -> Client info on http://wiki.vg/Server_List_Ping
23:35 < Brottweiler> dav1d: I play a lot ofthings!!!!
23:36 < Brottweiler> dav1d: but xy is admin abuse!
23:36 < dav1d> Brottweiler: xy is a jerk!
23:37 < Brottweiler> XD
23:37 < Brottweiler> hes forcing!
23:37 < coolcat> Yoshi2: Any idea of what part..? I know some vaules are diffrent but would except them to be
23:37 < Brottweiler> all the tim
23:40 < Yoshi2> coolcat: hmm, actually, I'll need to check how the client handles incorrect data in the server ping response
23:48 < Yoshi2> coolcat: if you are getting a communication error, your server might be closing the connection too soon
23:54 < coolcat> Hm,k will check it out
23:54 < Yoshi2> coolcat: ohh, make sure that the stringlength you are sending is correct
23:56 < xy> Brottweiler: "all the time"
23:56 < xy> lol'd
--- Day changed lun. août 05 2013
00:00 < coolcat> Hm pretty sure string lenght is right but anyways : You can actually ignore the length because the server closes the connection after the response is sent.
00:01 < Yoshi2> coolcat: that is for the client
00:02 < Yoshi2> if you made a client, you could ignore the length
00:03 < Brottweiler> xy: ALL the tem!
00:03 < coolcat> ah,vanilla doesnt ignore it,mk
00:03 < barneygale> coolcat: you sure your string length is in characters, not bytes?
00:03 < Yoshi2> coolcat: your string length is definitely incorrect, 0x30 is 48 characters
00:04 < Yoshi2> because in minecraft, every character in the string takes up two bytes, the minecraft client will read <number of characters> multiplied by two
00:04 < Yoshi2> you are sending 48 bytes of data, but not 48 characters
00:05 < dav1d> UTF-8 please!
00:05 < coolcat> oh,dang over looked that
00:05 < coolcat> Meh, im fine with utf-16, its just pb doesnt support null's in strings
00:05 < coolcat> So i have to make a headache of a workaround
00:06 < dav1d> coolcat: that isn't utf-16
00:06 < barneygale> subset of utf-16
00:06 < dav1d> also utf-16 is the worst thing ever invented
00:06 < barneygale> but tbh i've never worried about it
00:06 < coolcat> btw: is the null chars included in that character count?
00:06 < dav1d> it is just stuipid 
00:06 < barneygale> coolcat: the null characters are part of the utf-16 encoding
00:06 < dav1d> coolcat: that is not a null char
00:06 < barneygale> you shouldn't be adding them yourself.
00:06 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 63 commits to master [+1033/-1104/±528] http://git.io/pqVxnw
00:06 < dav1d> ^
00:06 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn de7e51b - Removed Craft.Net.Data from build
00:07 < coolcat> Er
00:07 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 701b107 - Define Craft.Net.Utilities
00:07 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 4f86273 - Started refactoring Level
00:07 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 54acd4a - Reorganizing unit tests
00:07 < dx> 63 commits?
00:07 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn f703e37 - Finished most of Level refactoring
00:07 < dav1d> lol
00:07 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 80bf386 - Further work on adding back Level functionality, now supports unlimited worlds
00:07 < dav1d> SPAM
00:07 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 78e3a90 - Removing majority of code in other classes, will be rewritten
00:07 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 90aada9 - Added NBT_List serialization
00:07 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 8be1d3a - Added INbtSerializable for custom serialization
00:07 < barneygale> lollll
00:07 < coolcat> Dang
00:07 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 5fa9838 - Added NBT serialization bindings to Chunks and Sections
00:07 < dav1d> CCCCOMBO BREAKER
00:07 < dx> fun
00:07 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 7d8d7c2 - Merge master into refactoring
00:07 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn d59e9ad - Moving data types around
00:07 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 2b564c5 - Move Craft.Net.Data and switch to fNbt fork
00:07 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn d1b3a7c - Moved data types into Craft.Net.Data, fixed build errors in Craft.Net.World
00:07 < dx> don't let sircmpwn take over the channel!
00:07 <+AndrewPH> oh boi
00:07 < coolcat> But, im talking about the server list ping
00:07 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 7efff97 - Rename Craft.Net -> Craft.Net.Networking
00:07 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 62d5cba - Added temporary reduced build configuration for easier development
00:07 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn df965e3 - Fleshed out Section, adds support for Add array
00:07 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn de1baa6 - Added entity serialization to chunks
00:07 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 9d790f1 - Got Craft.Net.World working correctly
00:07 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 0b32dee - Moved projects into subfolder
00:07 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 7e81bae - Fixed bugs preventing Minecraft from loading Craft.Net.World worlds
00:07 < dav1d> dx: TOO LATE
00:07 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn ca3b2fc - Fixed Level.Load
00:07 < coolcat> Which has nulls throughout the string
00:07 <+AndrewPH> legalize gay weed
00:07 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 659e4f5 - Update fNbt reference
00:07 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn a34c444 - Added docs and reworked README
00:07 < dx> ;_;
00:07 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn b93c31e - Modify readme
00:07 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 432381e - Update THANKS
00:07 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 67c92de - Fixed build issues on Mono
00:07 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn d402274 - Update fNbt
00:07 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 4477255 - Rename Craft.Net.World to Craft.Net.Anvil to avoid namespace problems
00:07 < dx> Update THANKS
00:07 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn ca99cc1 - Started work on Craft.Net.Logic
00:07 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 3cd19db - Added item descriptor struct
00:07 < dx> THANKS SIRCMPWN
00:07 <+AndrewPH> THANKS OBABO
00:07 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn b498369 - Generated files for all 1.5.2 items
00:08 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 93844ff - Started block code
00:08 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn b05ed79 - Generated all 1.5.2 block classes
00:08 < dx> that too
00:08 < dav1d> UPDATE PLEASE
00:08 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 4effc27 - Update readme
00:08 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 424934a - Fleshed out Block classes
00:08 < Yoshi2> coolcat: do you mean the null characters which are used to delimite the fields, as mentioned on the page?
00:08 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn db97e8b - Added Craft.Net.Entities and window management
00:08 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 72ac441 - Craft.Net.Data -> Craft.Net.Common
00:08 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 1c63a9d - Started on Craft.Net.Server rewrite
00:08 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 6722dee - Started on Craft.Net.Server rewrite
00:08 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 851046a - Reimplemented block placement/mining
00:08 < barneygale> twice!
00:08 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 0643ca8 - Show blocks digging from other clients
00:08 <+AndrewPH> jegus fuck
00:08 < dx> rewrite!
00:08 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn f3601eb - Added Craft.Net.Physics
00:08 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 64f9923 - Added dropped items and physics engine
00:08 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 52b44bd - Cleaned up event handlers on disconnect to avoid leaks
00:08 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 11914b7 - Fixed bug with empty held items
00:08 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn ca33ffd - Implemented item entity merging
00:08 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn a3d5ff7 - Update fNbt
00:08 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 156253a - Update fNbt, fix solution file for Mono
00:08 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 019d7c9 - Fixed more issues with build on Mono
00:08 < dav1d> JEGUS HELP US! :D
00:08 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 5140ec8 - Added block update logic and configurable drops
00:08 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn a463524 - Prevented entities from spawning when creative players destroy blocks
00:08 <+AndrewPH> are we at 63 yet
00:08 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn d652422 - Added wool, fixed metadata bug for block placement
00:08 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn d686966 - Fixed build on MS.NET
00:08 < barneygale> it just keeps going and going
00:08 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn a7b062a - Fixed inventory bug related to placing blocks
00:08 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn f085442 - Added opportunity for servers to prevent players from logging in (bans)
00:08 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 7aa8fdf - Merged master into refactoring
00:08 < dx> PULL REQUESTS FOR NOTIFICO WELCOME!
00:08 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 05a40cc - Merge branch 'master' into refactoring
00:08 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn e62559c - Update README.md
00:08 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn da678db - Getting caught back up to 1.6.2
00:08 < barneygale> so speaking of bans...
00:08 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 3773b9e - Switch to BouncyCastle for crypto on all platforms This removes the MONO_Debug and MONO_Release build configurations.
00:08 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn caba6f0 - Update README.md
00:09 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 4e5c1c6 - Fix client-side movement speed
00:09 < coolcat> ^^
00:09 < Yoshi2> I think we are halfway through
00:09 -!- Not-002 was kicked from #mcdevs by Prf_Jakob [Not-002]
00:09 < dav1d> haha
00:09 < barneygale> o/
00:09 <@Prf_Jakob> Hey
00:09 <+AndrewPH> TkTech: that is one good reason to get to the limiting fast
00:10 <@Prf_Jakob> TkTech: yeah so some sort of max message limiter on notifico kthxbye.
00:10 < barneygale> Any users of mark2 here interested in working on it? We're starting a partial rewrite
00:10 < barneygale> could do with another developer
00:10 <@Prf_Jakob> TkTech: Also if the bot doesn't comeback then I messed something up, sorry.
00:10 < dx> this reminds me that i still don't know of notifico replies to ctcp ping
00:11 <+AndrewPH> it does not 
00:11 < dx> okay. then my attempt to know if it was still flooding was pointless
01:33 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+8/-0/±3] http://git.io/ozsDNw
01:33 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 875bdb2 - Added basic support for Minecraft Classic
01:38 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 2 commits to master [+8/-8/±2] http://git.io/bOoJCg
01:38 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 713118b - Fixed build warnings in Craft.Net.Anvil
01:38 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 0c3d90c - Fixed botched classic source layout
01:42 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±3] http://git.io/pdHPgQ
01:42 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn c138b3b - Fixed more build warnings, xbuild
01:42 < dx> oh interesting, notifico rejoined for the push
01:43 < dx> that means we can never escape from sircmpwn's commits
05:00 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-0/±3] http://git.io/B_bHGQ
05:00 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 4ff1a42 - Add Classic PacketReader
05:26 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/3VO3IA
05:26 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn b971c8e - Fix BufferedStream namespace
06:58 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/YaVvPQ
06:58 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 13ddb1d - Fix problem with classic MinecraftStream
07:09 < derpythr> Hey :D
07:09 < SteveWynnn> Hi there!
07:09 < derpythr> I wuv you ;D
07:09 < Irving_Daichi> What do you call a nigger hitchhiker? Stranded.
07:09 < Blagun_Eugene> A 5 year old black boy walks up to a 5 year old white boy and says, "My daddy's goy a car. When he honks the horn it goes 'honkey honkey'". Little white boy says, "shit, my daddys got a chain saw when he starts it up it goes 'run nigga nigga run'".
07:09 < Iared_David> How does a girl from Harlem practice safe sex? She locks the car doors. 
07:09 < Aingeru_Koios> Why do decent white folks shop at nigger yard sales? To get all their stuff back. 
07:09 < Ichabod_Pontus> Why is making toast like an interracial couple having a baby? It's annoying when it comes out black. 
07:09 < Iared_Eber> What do you call a nigger in a suit? Defendant 
07:09 < Swithun_Jewell> How dose every black joke start? With someone looking around to see if their are any black people there
07:09 < Sebastian_Alfie> Where is the best place to hide a nigger's food stamps? Under his work boots.
07:09 < Fatih_David> Did you hear about Ku Klux Knieval? He tried to jump 50 niggers with a steam roller.
07:09 < Tzion_Zlatan> What's the diffrence between a park bench and a Nigger? The Bench is the only thing that can support a family. 
07:09 < Chenaniah_Nur> Why do black people have white hands? Everyone has some good in them.
07:09 < Iared_Gruffud> Racism is when you run over a nigger with your truck. Reverse-racism is when you back up. 
07:10 < DavidEGrayson> spam
07:10 < SteveWynnn> not spam
07:10 < Blagun_Eugene> "Still hung. Over." replied the KKK member being asked about the condition of the nigger over his 2 way radio. 
07:10 < Irving_Daichi> What's the most confusing day in Harlem? Fathers Day! 
07:10 < SteveWynnn> jokes
07:10 < Irving_Daichi1> Why do pill bottles have cotton buds in the top of them? To remind niggers that they were cotton pickers before they were drug dealers. 
07:10 < Blagun_Eugene1> Did you hear that the KKK bought the movie rights to Roots? They're going to play it backwards so it has a happy ending. 
07:10 < Iared_Eber> Morpheus and Neo are plugged in to the Matrix and having a chat. Morpheus turns to Neo, "In this world you can be anything you want." There is a short silence. Neo: "Then why are you a nigger?"
07:10 < Blagun_Eugene2> 3 kids in school one day. The teacher asks them, "What do cows say?" Amy replies "moo!" Teacher then asks, "What do sheep say?" Jack replies, "baa!" Teacher then asks, "What do pigs say?" Leroy says "Freeze motherfuckin' nigger, what's in the fuckin' bag?" 
07:10 < Irving_Daichi2> What do you call one black guy on moon? A problem. What do you call two black guys on the moon? A problem What do you call the entire race of black? guys on the moon? A problem solved.
07:10 < Iared_Eber1> A Mexican and a nigger are riding in car. Who's driving? A cop.
07:10 < Iared_Eber2> Leeroy is talking to his parents about his problems: "Mummy, whenever I try to play with the white boys and girls, they always call me a nigger - why is that? "Well," replies his mum, "that's because you are black." "And mummy, why do the teachers shout at me and tell me to go away, but they are nice to the white boys and girls?" "Well," replies his mum, "that's because you are black." Then Leroy grins and says "Well, whenever I'm in the shower with 
07:10 < Swithun_Jewell> What's a crying shame? When a bus full of niggers drives off a cliff and there were 3 empty seats.
07:10 < Swithun_Jewell1> Whats the difference between a nigger and a large pizza? A pizza can feed a family of four. 
07:10 < Sebastian_Alfie> Why do all black people run fast? Because all the slow ones are in jail.
07:10 < Iared_Gruffud> What is the difference between a white owl and a black owl? A white owl goes, "Who, who," a black owl goes, "Who dat? Who dat?"
07:10 < Swithun_Jewell2> Why are so many niggers moving to Detroit? They heard there were no jobs there. 
07:10 < Fatih_David> What do you call a nigger with a regular job, who doesn’t drive a lowrider, sleeps in the same bed every night, doesn’t collect welfare, and doesn’t rape White women? An inmate.
07:10 < Tzion_Zlatan> What do you call 100 niggers on the bottom of the sea? A good start. 
07:10 < Chenaniah_Nur> Why are so many niggers moving to Detroit? They heard there were no jobs there. 
07:10 < Iared_Gruffud1> If Tarzan and Jane were black, what would Cheetah be? The brains of the outfit. 
07:10 < Chenaniah_Nur1> Why do black people have white hands? Everyone has some good in them.
07:10 < Fatih_David1> What do a nigger and a bicycle have in common? They only work with a chain on. 
07:10 < Tzion_Zlatan1> A white man walks into a bar and notices a black bartender. "I'll have a beer, nigger" says the white man. "Hey there is no need for you talk to me like that. How would you like it if I talked like that to you?" says the black bartender. "Why don't we swap places and find out?" says the white man. The white man and black bartender swap places. The black bartender walks up to the white man who is now behind the bar and says "Hey 
07:10 < Sebastian_Alfie1> Why are so many niggers moving to Detroit? They heard there were no jobs there. 
07:10 < Iared_Gruffud2> What is the difference between Batman and a black man? Batman can go into a convenience store without Robin. 
07:10 < Tzion_Zlatan2> A large cruise ship strikes an iceberg and slowly begins to sink. The captain declares he is going to need to remove some weight from the boat or it will surely sink. He says to be fair, and not discriminate, we will have to call out people in alphabetical order to jump off the ship. Everyone agrees this is the only fair way. The captain then declares "All African Americans, jump overboard!" A niglet tells his dad"Oh noes, dat b
07:10 < Sebastian_Alfie2> What do you call 10 niggers in a steam room? Gorillas In The Mist.
07:10 < Fatih_David2> A Liverpool docker went to South Africa for a job. The boss tells him: "Its people like you we want here. Here's a test. There's a revolver, go out and shoot 6 niggers and a rabbit." The docker asks: "Why do I have to shoot the rabbit?" He got the job. 
07:10 < Jordon_Xavior> What does a nigger have in common with a soda machine? They both don't work and always take your money. 
07:10 < Jordon_Xavior1> A black woman was filling out forms at the welfare office. Under "Number of children," she wrote "10," and where it said "List names of children," she wrote "Leroy." When she handed in the form, the woman behind the desk pointed out: "Now here where it says "List names of children," you're supposed to write the names of each one of your children." "Dey all named Leroy," said the black woman. "That's very unusual. When you call them, how do they know 
07:10 < Jordon_Xavior2> Why was the wheelbarrow invented? To teach niggers to walk on their hind legs.
07:10 < Chenaniah_Nur> What's the most confusing day in Harlem? Fathers Day! 
07:10 < Jordon_Xavior> What do you call a black woman who gets an abortion? A member of Crimestoppers of America. 
07:10 < Or_Gerhard1> What do nigger pimps and farmers have in common? They both need a hoe to stay in business! 
07:10 < Or_Gerhard2> What happened when the nigger looked up his family tree? A gorilla shit in his face 
07:10 < Sebastian_Alfie> How does a black chick tell if she's pregnant? When she pulls the tampon out, all the cotton is already picked.
07:10 < Iared_Gruffud> "Life is like a box of chocolates." Not all the black ones can be trusted.
07:10 < Sebastian_Alfie1> What do you call the New Orleans Superdome full of milk? Cocoa Puffs.
07:10 < Iared_Gruffud1> Whats faster then a nigger running with your TV? His brother with the VCR. 
07:11 < Blagun_Eugene1> Have you heard scientists have bred a nigger with an octopus? It's an ugly fucker, but it sure can pick cotton. 
07:11 < Blagun_Eugene> A nigger goes into a library and says, "I..." The librarian interrupts and says, "Fuck off, you won't bring it back." 
07:11 < Irving_Daichi> Whats faster then a nigger running with your TV? His brother with the VCR. 
07:11 < Irving_Daichi1> If Tarzan and Jane were black, what would Cheetah be? The brains of the outfit. 
07:11 < Alvis_Dusty> What's the diffrence between a park bench and a Nigger? The Bench is the only thing that can support a family. 
07:11 < Alvis_Dusty1> What do black men do after sex? 15 years to life. 
07:11 < Fatih_David> 3 kids in school one day. The teacher asks them, "What do cows say?" Amy replies "moo!" Teacher then asks, "What do sheep say?" Jack replies, "baa!" Teacher then asks, "What do pigs say?" Leroy says "Freeze motherfuckin' nigger, what's in the fuckin' bag?" 
07:11 < Alvis_Dusty2> Whats long and hard on a nigger? First grade. 
07:11 < Fatih_David1> What do nigger pimps and farmers have in common? They both need a hoe to stay in business! 
07:11 < Tzion_Zlatan> What do you call a nigger in a suit? Defendant 
07:11 < Chenaniah_Nur> What do you call 100 niggers on the bottom of the sea? A good start. 
07:11 < Tzion_Zlatan1> Why do blacks have white hands and feet? They were on all fours when God spray painted them!
07:11 < Irving_Daichi> I went to a fancy dress party the other day dressed as Adolf Hitler. Everyone thought it was hilarious. Until they found three dead Jews in the shower.
07:11 < Blagun_Eugene> What's the difference between a Jew and a canoe? A canoe tips!
07:11 < Iared_Eber> What do Jewish women make for dinner? Reservations!
07:11 < Iared_Gruffud> I can't believe the judge said I was a particularly ruthless kidnapper and a disgrace to the Jewish community. All because I added shipping and handling charges to the ransom note.
07:11 < Iared_Eber1> Why are niggers' teeth so white? So you know where to aim your punch when you're about to get mugged at night. 
07:11 < Sebastian_Alfie> There wouldn't be any Jews in America if they hadn't heard about the right of free speech. 
07:11 < Tzion_Zlatan> 'There is safety in numbers' Unless there are 6,000,000 of you. And you are all Jews. 
07:11 < Iared_Eber2> Where is the best place to hide a nigger's food stamps? Under his work boots.
07:11 < Chenaniah_Nur> How do you get 100 jews into a car? Throw a quarter in it.
07:11 < Fatih_David> Two Jewish businessmen were discussing insurance. "You need fire insurance, burglary insurance and flood insurance." "The fire and theft and burglary I can understand," said the other, "but the flood insurance? How do you start a flood?"
07:11 < Swithun_Jewell> Why do niggers have red eyes after sex? Pepper spray.
07:11 < Jordon_Xavior> Hitler may have killed 6 million Jews, but he sure as fucking hell saved the History channel. 
07:11 < Swithun_Jewell1> A black woman was filling out forms at the welfare office. Under "Number of children," she wrote "10," and where it said "List names of children," she wrote "Leroy." When she handed in the form, the woman behind the desk pointed out: "Now here where it says "List names of children," you're supposed to write the names of each one of your children." "Dey all named Leroy," said the black woman. "That's very unusual. When you call them, how do they know 
07:11 < Lucius_Islwyn2> Why do black people have white hands? Everyone has some good in them.
07:11 < Irving_Daichi> What's the difference between Jesus and Mexicans? Jesus doesn't have Mexicans tattooed all over him.
07:11 < Swithun_Jewell> Why don't Jews eat pork? Jews may be a lot of things but cannibals they are not!
07:11 < Blagun_Eugene> What do you call a Mexican who can swim? A Texan. 
07:11 < Iared_Eber> What do you call two Mexicans playing basketball against each other? Juan on Juan. 
07:11 < Swithun_Jewell1> What do books have that Mexicans don't? Papers.
07:11 < Iared_Gruffud> What do you call a little Mexican? A paragraph. Because he's not quite an essay.
07:11 < Alvis_Dusty> How many Americans' does it take to screw in a light bulb? Only Mexicans do that kind of job. 
07:11 < Tzion_Zlatan> What do you call two Mexicans playing basketball against each other? Juan on Juan. 
07:11 < Sebastian_Alfie> What do you call a Mexican who can swim? A Texan. 
07:11 < Chenaniah_Nur> What's the difference between Jesus and Mexicans? Jesus doesn't have Mexicans tattooed all over him.
07:11 < Fatih_David> What do you call two Mexicans playing basketball against each other? Juan on Juan. 
07:11 < Or_Gerhard1> What's the best way to keep a nigger confused? Ask him what's his daddy's last name! 
07:11 < Or_Gerhard2> Have you heard scientists have bred a nigger with an octopus? It's an ugly fucker, but it sure can pick cotton. 
07:12 < Alvis_Dusty> How can you tell a black person is lying? His lips are moving. 
07:12 < Alvis_Dusty1> A nigger and a spic fall from a tree, who hits the ground first? The spic, the nigger never makes it because he's stopped by the rope. 
07:12 < Alvis_Dusty2> How dose every black joke start? With someone looking around to see if their are any black people there
07:12 < Or_Gerhard2> A Mexican and a nigger are riding in car. Who's driving? A cop.
07:12 < Or_Gerhard1> Did you hear about Ku Klux Knieval? He tried to jump 50 niggers with a steam roller.
07:12 < Irving_Daichi> null
07:12 < Iared_Eber> A nigger and a little white boy are debating on whether God is black or White. finally the little white boy says, "let's ask God!" The White boy looks to Heaven and asks, "God, are you black or white?" God replies, "Well boys, I am what I am." The White boys exclaims, "well, that proves it, God is White!" The nigger asks, "how do you know?" The White boy replies, "if God was a nigger he woulda said 'I iz what I iz!'" 
07:12 < Blagun_Eugene> How dose every black joke start? With someone looking around to see if their are any black people there
07:12 < Chenaniah_Nur> Why don't niggers celebrate Thanksgiving? Kentucky Fried Chicken isn't open on holidays. 
07:12 < Tzion_Zlatan> What is the difference between a white owl and a black owl? A white owl goes, "Who, who," a black owl goes, "Who dat? Who dat?"
07:12 < Swithun_Jewell> null
07:12 < Sebastian_Alfie> null
07:12 < Alvis_Dusty> What do you call a Mexican who can swim? A Texan. 
07:12 < Fatih_David> What do you call two Mexicans playing basketball against each other? Juan on Juan. 
07:12 < Iared_Gruffud> null
07:12 < zml> TkTech: ^
07:12 < dx> what
07:12 < SteveWynnn> WHOSE BOTS ARE THIS!
07:12 < Irving_Daichi> How many Americans' does it take to screw in a light bulb? Only Mexicans do that kind of job. 
07:12 < Blagun_Eugene> What do you call a Mexican with a broken lawn mower? Unemployed.
07:13 < Iared_Eber> What do books have that Mexicans don't? Papers.
07:15 < Jordon_Xavior1> What's the difference between a nigger and a bouncy castle? You dont take your shoes off to jump on a nigger! 
07:15 < derpythr> Test
07:15 < derpythr> <3
07:15 < derpythr> I wuv you TkTech
07:16 <+AndrewPH> ugh more bots of sorts
07:18 < DavidEGrayson> derpythr and SteveWynn are bots I think
07:19 < dx> DavidEGrayson is a bot i think
07:19 < Seegee> I think fuck you.
07:19 < derpythr> im derpythr
07:19 < derpythr> not a bot
07:19 < derpythr> just a derpythr
07:19 < derpythr> I may 
07:19 < derpythr> or
07:19 < derpythr> may not
07:19 < derpythr> control the bots
07:19 < derpythr> but
07:19 < dx> ..
07:19 < derpythr> I am not a bot
07:19 < derpythr> derpythr 
07:19 < derpythr> all da way
07:19 < dx> what's the deal with you guys
07:20 < derpythr> Whats the big deal? whats wrong with it?
07:20 < Seegee> Whats wrong with the it...
07:21 < dx> eh whatever
07:21 < dx> also sorry DavidEGrayson, that bot thing was just a dumb joke
07:22 < derpythr> it was not a dumb joke it was a good joke
07:22 < derpythr> Lets see you code it 
07:22 < DavidEGrayson> :)
07:24 -!- derpythr was kicked from #mcdevs by TkTech [Your behavior is not conducive to the desired environment.]
07:24 -!- Seegee was kicked from #mcdevs by TkTech [Your behavior is not conducive to the desired environment.]
07:25 < dx> thanks
07:25 < dx> oddly Seegee seemed to be active as a normal user in this channel before
07:26 < zml> I feel like Seegee was responding to derpythyr (see the ... at the end)
07:26 < dx> that reply was unusually quick
07:27 < dx> and made little sense
07:27 < zml> eh, true
07:28 <+AndrewPH> it was exactly 1 second after his msg, so i'd say it was probably a bit.
07:28 <+AndrewPH> ot
07:28 < dx> yeah both messages are very markovian
07:29 < dx> so uhm, what did i miss
07:30 < dx> was someone banned recently or what
07:30 < dexter0> pbunny has returned for his revenge :D
07:30 < dexter0> jk
07:31 < dx> lol
07:31 < dx> he had a super 1337 hacker hostmask!
07:31 < dx> i don't even remember what it was
07:31 < dexter0> stdout.lulzsec.net i think
07:31 < dx> oh right
07:45 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/P-yCiw
07:45 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 6802830 - Fix bug with LevelDataPacket
08:45 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/CQf-Xw
08:45 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 96aa891 - Set chunk position on add
09:44 < Not-002> [RetroCraft] none pushed 3 commits to master [+4/-0/±16] http://git.io/75jZ7Q
09:44 < Not-002> [RetroCraft] SirCmpwn b72ae77 - Added world conversion and logging in properly
09:44 < Not-002> [RetroCraft] SirCmpwn c04d681 - Add spawning players, seems to be inaccurate
09:44 < Not-002> [RetroCraft] SirCmpwn ca94f38 - Update Craft.Net submodule
12:05 <+md_5> relevant: https://github.com/SpigotMC/BungeeCord/issues/545#issuecomment-22096966
12:31 <+Prf_Jakob> md_5: oh man
12:37 <+AndrewPH> md_5: jesus christ he's dumb
12:39 < dav1d> I know BB code.
12:39 < dav1d> HAHA
12:42 < dav1d> md_5: your code sucks! THIS IS A FACT!
12:42 <+AndrewPH> md_5: ur bad at cod.
12:42 <+AndrewPH> sry code, netty is much better
12:43 < dav1d> Example: "YELLOW( 'e' ),"
12:43 <+AndrewPH> it's so much better i tried to use it and didn't succeed :(
12:43 < dav1d> WHY DO YOU PUT USELESS WHITESPACES THERE
12:43 < dav1d> :>
12:43 <+md_5> dav1d at least its not "YELLOW ( 'e' ) ,"
12:43 < dav1d> md_5: see you have the evil in your MIND!
12:44 < dav1d> I couldn't even think of such horrible code :>
12:44 < dav1d> 3 wasted bytes!
12:44 <+md_5> his bungeecord replacement is amazing though
12:44 <+md_5> while true; out.write(in.read())
12:44 < dav1d> btw. just to let you know
12:44 < dav1d> pbunny uses windows 8 :>
12:44 < dav1d> and guess what :D
12:44 < dav1d> not registered :D
12:44 <+md_5> he said he uses linux
12:45 <+md_5> with all code audited by himself
12:45 <+md_5> including chipset and processor microcode
12:45 < dav1d> actually since he and me didn't really agree, I never thought he would test brala and make actual (useful) bugreports
12:45 < dav1d> but he did
12:45 < dav1d> https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/issues/21
12:46 < dav1d> I never expected it, but I appreciate it :)
12:47 < Grum> md_5: popcorn is ready! more show!
12:48 <+md_5> Grum hm?
12:48 < Grum> ensirius sounds so serious!
12:48 <+md_5> have you seen his bukkit plugin?
12:48 <+md_5> https://github.com/Ensemplix/enLogger
12:48 <+md_5> shining example of the pinnacle of code
12:49 <+md_5> hm
12:49 < dav1d> md_5: I like the readme
12:49 < dav1d> so readable
12:49 <+md_5> I wonder why every class is prefixed wit >
12:49 <+md_5> *with
12:49 <+md_5> * en
12:49 < Grum> classes starting with a lowercase letter? the fuck
12:49 <+md_5> "Asynchronous multithreaded logging"
12:49 <+md_5> dav1d my russian is fluent
12:49 < Grum> lets rage on the first file we see: https://github.com/Ensemplix/enLogger/blob/master/src/ru/ensemplix/enDatabaseExecutor.java
12:49 <+md_5> loljokes google translate
12:49 < dav1d> haha
12:50 <+md_5> > logger not declared static and final
12:50 <+md_5> lets get netbeans to rage at him
12:50 < Grum> public logger but not static/final?  (also Plugin.getLogger exists)
12:50 <+md_5> getConnection
12:50 <+md_5> -> log error
12:50 < Grum> weird mid-line newline O.o
12:50 <+md_5> -> return null
12:50 <+md_5> awe he does nullcheck the returned value
12:50 < Grum> 	public Logger logger = Logger.getLogger("Minecraft");  and then 			logger.warning("[enLogger] Unable to establish a connection to database!"); 
12:51 < Grum> i mean, then just do Logger.getLogger("enLogger") O.o
12:51 <+md_5> https://github.com/Ensemplix/enLogger/blob/master/src/ru/ensemplix/enExecutor.java
12:51  * md_5 stares at Bukkit.getScheduler
12:51 < Grum> also i'm quite sure logger.warning has a logger.warning(string, throwable) structure too ;)
12:51 < Grum> to wide scope of catching exceptions
12:52 <+md_5> gotta catch em all
12:52 < Grum> he closes the connection after *EVERY* query O.o
12:52 < Grum> the fuck :P
12:52 <+md_5> https://github.com/Ensemplix/enLogger/blob/master/src/ru/ensemplix/enLogger.java#L33
12:52 <+md_5> what is that even
12:53 <+md_5> does he realise executor.execute(Runnable) exists
12:53 < Grum> https://github.com/Ensemplix/enLogger/blob/master/src/ru/ensemplix/enDatabaseExecutor.java#L77 ... oh god that hurts
12:54 <+md_5> Grum : "2 years in java and more i work, more i understand how bad write mojang and others. "  He criticised your code, GET HIM
12:54 < Grum> oh i saw =)
12:54 <+md_5> also when you get to the office please harass Vu for me about booths, thanks :)
12:55 < dav1d> haha :D
12:55 < dav1d> yeah buildQuery is a masterpiece
12:55 <+md_5> dav1d you know what else is a masterpiece?
12:55 <+md_5> http://nessus.lv/img/logo.gif
12:56 < dav1d> :D
12:56 < Grum> so lets recap
12:56 < Grum> for every line he logs, he: opens the connection, queries for the table-layout, builds the query, then executes and closes the connection again
12:56 < Grum> efficient++++
12:59 <+AndrewPH> but he's still better than mojang amirite guys ecks dee !
13:00 < Grum> totallies
13:00 < dav1d> mojang sox at coding!
13:00 < dav1d> !!!11111
13:02 <+md_5> when are rasberrypis with cases coming
13:02 <+md_5> :s
13:03 <+AndrewPH> make your own using your bad code
13:05 < Grum> afk shitting osme more bad code for productio
13:05 <+md_5> wa
13:05 <+md_5> I dont understand that
14:12 < Grum> md_5: omg he replied
14:44 < dav1d> and again
15:17 <+pdelvo> What are you joking about? I want to laugh too :(
15:20 < barneygale> Prf_Jakob: why is it +i?
15:20 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: can we remove the +i?
15:20 <+Prf_Jakob> barneygale: we got spammed badly.
15:20 < barneygale> oh :/
15:20 < barneygale> any idea who did it?
15:20 <+Prf_Jakob> barneygale: somebody tried to run a botnet from here.
15:21 < barneygale> hahaha wat
15:48 < dav1d> pdelvo:  https://github.com/SpigotMC/BungeeCord/issues/545#issuecomment-22096966 
15:52 <+Prf_Jakob> dav1d, pdelvo, Grum, md_5: while being a nuisance I don't think having a public witch hunt here is really appropriate for this channel.
15:52 <+Prf_Jakob> Take that more as I don't like where this is going then a hard telling off.
15:53 < dav1d> Yes mum! :D
15:53 <+Prf_Jakob> hehe :)
15:58 < Grum> was more like a giggle-fest =)
16:12 <+sadimusi> does anyone have an idea how long it usually takes to get any kind of feedback on atlassian tickets? https://mojang.atlassian.net/browse/MC-26924 has now been sitting there unnoticed for two weeks... (cc Grum )
16:13 < Grum> long when we're not looking at it
16:18  * barneygale hopes that this will be fixed eventually https://mojang.atlassian.net/browse/MC-10984
16:18 < barneygale> come on mr frisk its your only assigned bug!
16:19 <+sadimusi> lol, I always wondered why the big servers on my list don't use the GS4 query
16:20 < barneygale> because notch wrote it
16:20 < barneygale> and notch was never any good at writing things like that
16:20 < barneygale> (not to say he was a bad game dev generally)
16:22 < zutto> minecraft has so many bugs its not even funny
16:26 < barneygale> Grum: do you think that bug should be reassigned? I think Dan Frisk is working on MCPE now.
16:36 < dx> sup!
16:36 < dx> sadimusi: how did the knock appear in the channel?
16:36 <+sadimusi> not at all
16:37 < dx> :(
16:37 <+sadimusi> at least for me
16:37 < dx> then it's probably for active OPs only
16:37 <+sadimusi> probably
16:38 < dx> anyway, thanks
17:23 <@TkTech> dx: It is, but for me it goes to the network query window and I never notice it.
17:25 <@TkTech> Prf_Jakob: I'm not around most of today and tomorrow, don't hesitate to change the modes, you HAVE THE POOOWWWWEEER.
17:28 < dx> TkTech: how about just blocking nickserv unregistered when that happens again?
17:29 <+Prf_Jakob> dx: which mode is tht?
17:30 < dx> +R
17:30 < dx> err nevermind
17:30 < dx> +r
17:30 <@Prf_Jakob> okay there
17:31 < dx> i should bookmark this http://freenode.net/using_the_network.shtml
17:31 < dx> +z is interesting too
21:03 < eddyb> was the invite thing removed while I was gone?
21:17 < ajf> Hey
21:17 < ajf> what's the URL to use a non-public classic server (one without a heartbeat)
21:17 < ajf> You know, the one where you specify the IP and port
21:22 < Yoshi2> ajf: try http://www.minecraft.net/play.jsp?server=127.0.0.1&port=25565
21:23 < dx> eddyb: approximately 4 hours before you joined
21:24 < eddyb> dx: so what was it?
21:26 < dx> eddyb: i guess someone was bored and decided to make his botnet join here and send one message per bot then quit, the messages were tl;dr, it was around 5 AM GMT
21:27 < eddyb> oh
21:27 < eddyb> fun times
21:27 < Yoshi2> fun times indeed
21:28 <+AndrewPH> dx: it was all racist jokes
21:28 <+AndrewPH> regarding afromericans
21:28 < dx> AndrewPH: oh, so classy
21:28 < Yoshi2> and not even good ones, too
21:33 < ajf> Yoshi2: aha, thanks
21:33 < ajf> ...but that doesn't work now, I think. :<
21:33 < ajf> redirects to /classic/play, and it's singleplayer
21:33 < ajf> let's see if the arguments work on /classic/play
21:33 < Yoshi2> ajf: that's what I feared :/
21:34 < ajf> ...nope
21:34 < ajf> :<
21:34 < dx> probably a different subdomain
21:34 < ajf> Oh well, doesn't matter, can still make fake heartbeats ;)
21:34 < ajf> Just visit https://minecraft.net/heartbeat.jsp?port=25565&max=32&name=ajf%27s%20server&public=True&version=7&salt=0123456789abcdef&users=0 ;)
21:35 < Yoshi2> heh, indeed
21:35 < ajf> How long does brute-forcing the salt from the MD5 take?
21:35 <+AndrewPH> too long but not long enough.
21:35 < ajf> (So I can pretend to be Notch :P)
21:35 < ajf> aw
21:35 < Yoshi2> a year or two ago I had much fun writing an automatic heartbeat faker
21:35 < ajf> faker?
21:36 < ajf> what, making heartbeats for non-existent servers?
21:36 < ajf> :D
21:36 < Yoshi2> exactly
21:36 < Yoshi2> bruteforcing the md5 depends on the salt used by the server
21:37 < dx> why is there a salt parameter
21:37 < dx> doesn't that defeat the purpose of salts?
21:37 < Yoshi2> dx: why should it?
21:38 < ajf> dx: it's more like server_secret
21:38 < dx> oh
21:38 < ajf> It's called "salt" but what actually happens is minecraft.net stores it
21:38 < ajf> and does MD5(salt + username)
21:38 < ajf> client passes that to server to prove its identity
21:39 < Yoshi2> a very neat way to verify the user's identity, but unsecure if the salt is somehow stolen or short enough that it can be bruteforced
21:39 < ajf> Well
21:40 < ajf> salt is always 16 chars IIRC
21:40 < ajf> "A random, 16-character base-62 salt "
21:40 < Yoshi2> depends on the server
21:40 < Yoshi2> the vanilla server probably does that
21:42 < ajf> I think most imitate it on that, though
23:19 <+md_5> Grum I'm gonna post a fully annotated critique on enLogger
23:21 < dx> md_5: on what?
23:21 < Byron_Nsia> What's the difference between a black and a white fairytale? White begins, "once upon a time," black begins, "y'all motherfuckers ain't gonna believe dis shit!" 
23:22 < dx> oh not this shit again
23:22 < dx> TkTech sadimusi Prf_Jakob
23:22 < dav1d> WHAT IS UP WITH THAT?
23:22 < dav1d> dx: http://vp.dav1d.de/V4XK?- -_-
23:22 <+sadimusi> didn't Prf_Jakob set this identified-only channel mode?
23:22 < dav1d> @oftc
23:23 < dav1d> sadimusi: nope
23:23 < dav1d> still only +Cnt
23:23 <@Prf_Jakob> it was r right?
23:23 <+sadimusi> yes
23:24 <@Prf_Jakob> I don't know what half of these do
23:24 < dav1d> r
23:25 < dav1d> http://freenode.net/using_the_network.shtml
23:25 < dav1d> it is +R
23:25 < dav1d> except I am too stuipid to read
23:25 < dx> dav1d: that's the umode
23:25 < dav1d> Prf_Jakob: aha sorry I am a derp
23:25 < dx> c is block colors, s is secret
23:25 < dav1d> you were right, I am stuipid, I should leave
23:26 < dx> lol
23:26 <@Prf_Jakob> Oh right
23:26 <@Prf_Jakob> I messed up the mode command
23:26 < dx> yep!
23:26 < dav1d> enough
23:26 <@Prf_Jakob> /mode +r #mcdevs
23:26 < dx> oh lol
23:26 <@Prf_Jakob> there we go
23:26 < dav1d> miep
23:26 < iBotPeaches> meow
23:26 < dx> +m was blocking non-voiced people from talking... which makes me wonder why this got through: 18:22 < sadimusi> yes
23:27 < dav1d> Prf_Jakob: maybe into topic?
23:27 < dav1d> dx: yeah I thought because it was +r not +R
23:27 <+md_5> he is voice dx
23:27 < dav1d> but I am a derp
23:27 < dav1d>  +sadimusi | yes     
23:27 < dx> md_5: yeah i don't see him voiced, i guess i'm out of sync, or my server is
23:27 < dav1d> dx: fix your client :>
23:27 < dx> a rejoin should fix it
23:27 < dx> yep
23:27 < dx> there
23:27 < dav1d> dx: why is your name dicks?
23:27 < iBotPeaches> lol
23:28 < dx> dav1d: my IRL is richard
23:28 < dx> *IRL name
23:28 < dx> derp
23:28 < dav1d> dx: yay my second name
23:28 < dav1d> dx: o/
23:28 < dav1d> dx: dx (~dicks@unaffiliated/dxdx) 
23:28 < dx> dav1d: yes hello
23:29 < dav1d> I was wondering if "dicks" has another meaning to you than to me :>
23:29 < dav1d> but maybe I should take another minute off
23:30 <+dav1d> :o
23:30 < dx> "dick" is for richard, "s" is my second name (which i'm not going to tell you because that makes me really easy to dox :D)
23:30 <+dav1d> funny how I told the internetz my second name but barely someone knows it in RL
23:31 <+Prf_Jakob> My first name is Tim
23:31 <+dav1d> only family and best friends -_-
23:31 < dx> Prf_Jakob: i thought it was jakob
23:31 <+dav1d> Prf_Jakob: first? I thought your name is Jakob :o
23:31 < dx> lol
23:31 <+AndrewPH> barely anybody on the line knows my true last name
23:31 <+Prf_Jakob> I have two first name, the firstest is Tim.
23:31 <+dav1d> "firstest" :D
23:31 < dx> lol firstest
23:31 <+md_5> hm
23:31 <+md_5> I figure here is a good place to ask
23:32 <+md_5> who uses S3?
23:32 <+dav1d> AndrewPH: I stopped caring at some point
23:32 <+md_5> what client do you use? Bucket Explorerer?
23:32 <+dav1d> If I want anonymity, perfect privacy and different pseudonym
23:32 <+dav1d> makes life easier
23:32 <+ammar2> my name is impossible to decipher from my moniker
23:33 <+AndrewPH> dav1d: it's mostly because I changed my last name and it's different enough that keeping my online last name the same has a huge effect on people trying to find me on the internet from irl
23:33 <+AndrewPH> ammar2: James Roald?!
23:33 < dx> ammar2: lamarr?
23:33 <+ammar2> close close
23:33 <+dav1d> AndrewPH: well people from RL won't find me on the internet if they don't know what github is
23:33 <+dav1d> :>
23:33 <+md_5> its ammar
23:33 <+md_5> lel
23:33 < dx> lel
23:34 <+md_5> if you see his other nick (github)
23:34 <+md_5> ammarasker
23:34 <+ammar2> wait, my name has been ammar this whole time?
23:34 <+AndrewPH> dav1d: it helps that i won't show up if jobs try looking for my real last name
23:34 <+dav1d> ammarask?
23:34 <+md_5> you will never decipher is name
23:34 < dx> ammar ascii or something like that
23:34 <+dav1d> AndrewPH: is this a real problem?
23:34 <+ammar2> dx: yeah its a long con by my parents
23:34 < dx> md_5: what's "enLogger"?
23:34 <+AndrewPH> dav1d: no it's just neat
23:34 <+AndrewPH> dx: the best program in the universe
23:34 < dx> ._.
23:34 <+AndrewPH> its code beats md_5's shitty abilities any day
23:34 <+dav1d> AndrewPH: still studying but will e.g. my github account have a bad impact in my joblife?
23:34 <+dav1d> dx: pun
23:35 <+AndrewPH> dav1d: probably not
23:35 <+dav1d> dx: want to read all of it?
23:35 <+AndrewPH> there's a good chance that facebook is all that an employer would look at, if anything
23:35 <+ammar2> AndrewPH: to be fair any code beats md_5's shitty abilities
23:35 < dx> dav1d: uhm okay?
23:35  * dx doesn't understand anything
23:36 <+dav1d> dx: I /notice'd it
23:36 <+AndrewPH> dx: it's proof that md_5 is bad at codding
23:36 < Yoshi2> I love it how we are comparing code, i.e. text written on a medium, to a person's abilities
23:36 < dx> ooooh, it's something that happened this morning while i was out because freenode hates me
23:37 <+ammar2> Yoshi2: yeah thats kinda how the world works
23:37 < Yoshi2> apples and oranges
23:37 <+ammar2> your abilities are almost always measured by what you can write on a medium
23:37 < dx> (the server i was on sent me a 'ping timeout' quit message, so it's not my connection, and i couldn't join here because +i)
23:37 < Yoshi2> I will keep that in mind for the future
23:44 < dx> dav1d: lol pbunny's bugreport on brala. if your client had more features, he wouldn't even need to pirate the official one!
23:44 <+dav1d> dx: it is still pirating
23:44 <+dav1d> :D
23:44 <+dav1d> dx: or?
23:45 < dx> oh right, what matters here is the minecraft.net auth
23:45 < dx> unless you add a single player mode to brala!
23:46 < dx> then it's a completely different game with free license
23:46 < dx> kinda.
23:46 <+dav1d> there will probably SP
23:46 <+dav1d> but with clonejos server or craft.net probably
23:46 <+dav1d> (but there will never be SP logic in brala)
23:47 < dx> hmm i'm not sure if that would count as piracy or not
23:47 < dx> he would need to set offline mode but there's no mojang code involved. kinda.
23:47 < dx> i have no idea why i'm even considering this
23:48 < dx> back to reading the popcorn pastebin
23:49 <+dav1d> dx: but it's Mojang protocol?
23:51 < dx> dav1d: hmm right, and we can't even claim we have clean room implementations because our docs are partially based on burger now :(
23:51 <+dav1d> dx: hehe
23:51 <+dav1d> we developed the exactly 1:1 protocol uhm by accident
23:51 < dx> yeah totally
23:51 <+dav1d> we thought that is a good implementation!
23:51 <+dav1d> no flaws at all!
23:52 < dx> there wasn't any other way to do it!
23:52 <+dav1d> exactly
--- Day changed mar. août 06 2013
00:03 < dx> dav1d: is pbunny even related with this stuff, or was he mentioned because he's like some sort of legend now? :D
00:03 <+dav1d> dx: not related
01:01 <+AndrewPH> md_5: what's it like being the author of poop
01:06 < umby24> Anyone know what a vanilla client would send to the server when picking an item out from the creative item list? I'm assuming a packet 0x6b with the item that they are picking up, but what for the Slot?
01:07 <+sadimusi> try it out and you'll know
01:07 < umby24> alright, guess I'll play with it then.
05:47 < klapaucius> Anybody in here?
05:50 < dx> no
05:50 < klapaucius> :P
05:51 < klapaucius> Do you know if this information is up to date: http://wiki.vg/Protocol_FAQ#What.27s_the_normal_login_sequence_for_a_client.3F
05:53 < dx> hmm good question
05:54 < klapaucius> I have been mucking around with Wireshark and looking at the minecraft protocol
05:54 < klapaucius> It follows what should happen up to step 11
05:54 < klapaucius> Then apparently deviates
05:56 < dx> uhm, wireshark is not the best tool to inspect the minecraft protocol unless you're fairly experienced with networking and binary formats
05:57 < dx> but i guess that at these stage of the login protocol parsers won't help you much
05:57 < dx> step 11 you say, let's see.
05:57 < klapaucius> Yes, up to and including step 11
05:58 < klapaucius> Then the next packet sent has only two bytes of data
05:58 < dx> "only two bytes of data" and then the stream gets cut?
05:59 < klapaucius> Well what I did was ran a local bukkit server and logged in with Wireshark running
05:59 < klapaucius> There were no login errors or anything
06:00 < dx> then how can you judge that it's just "two" bytes of data. the stream continues and there are no delimiters
06:00 < klapaucius> That's a good question
06:01 < dx> also, encryption starts exactly at that point. you shouldn't expect the stream to make sense anymore when read from wireshark
06:01 < klapaucius> I figured that might be encrypted :(
06:01 < dx> that's exactly what the page you linked says
06:01 < dx> "Server enables AES stream encryption"
06:02 < klapaucius> The page also says it's possible to avoid encryption
06:02 < dx> of course, but the vanilla client won't do that
06:02 < dx> (unless forced)
06:02 < klapaucius> Damn, the protocol gets interesting after that point
06:02 < klapaucius> Well, thanks for your help
06:02 < dx> yup
06:03 < dx> anyway
06:03 < dx> https://github.com/sadimusi/mc4p
06:03 < dx> have some decent protocol parser
06:03 < dexter0> or https://github.com/SirCmpwn/SMProxy
06:03 < klapaucius> Does that program undo the encryption?
06:04 < dx> these work as proxies, so... yeah, basically that.
06:04 < klapaucius> Cool, I'll take a look
06:04 < dx> but you should use these as a replacement for wireshark
06:05 < klapaucius> Yes that's what I planned to do
06:05 < dx> okay then!
06:05 < klapaucius> I didn't actually expect Minecraft to be encrypted
06:06 < dexter0> it's been that way for a year now
06:06 < klapaucius> Well I only started looking at the protocol yesterday
06:06 < dx> didn't the words "encryption request, public key, symmetric key, shared secret, encryption response, [...]" suggest something to you? :D
06:07 < klapaucius> I meant before I read that page
06:07 < dx> heh okay
06:07 < klapaucius> Judging by how long it took them to do certain features of Minecraft
06:08 < dx> dexter0: and, damn, a year since that?
06:08 < klapaucius> Thanks for referring me to those tools by the way
06:08 < dexter0> I know right, I just realized that
06:09 < dx> in my mind yggdrasil was released "right after" the protocol encryption
06:09 < dx> i'm not good at tracking time
09:39 < klapaucius> dx are you still around?
09:39 < dx> MAYBE
09:39 < klapaucius> Do you know if the protocol information is still accurate?
09:40 < klapaucius> I forgot to get an answer from you about that
09:41 < dx> well i didn't answer about the "protocol FAQ" page in particular because i was checking if the new launcher affected that in any relevant ways, but it seems it doesn't
09:41 < klapaucius> There seems to be an extra 2 bytes in the Handshake packet
09:42 < dx> you and your extra bytes
09:42 < dx> the main protocol page is definitely correct
09:42 < dx> since that's the one that gets all the attention
09:42 < klapaucius> Ok
09:43 < klapaucius> When I get the bytes, I see the first byte for the packet id, that is 0x02, the second byte is 74 for the protocol version
09:43 < dx> i suggest reading the "data types" page too
09:43 < klapaucius> Then after that are two mystery bytes
09:43 < klapaucius> Oh
09:43 < klapaucius> Don't mind me, I cannot read
09:43 < klapaucius> Sorry to bother you
09:44 < dx> yep looks like an issue that is solved with the data types page :D
09:44 < klapaucius> One of my two issues solved then :D
09:44 < Yoshi2> these two mystery bytes are the length of the following string in characters, but it seems you figured that out already ;)
09:44 < klapaucius> I made an assumption in a different part of the packet that fooled me
10:04 <+md_5> Grum gonna write a critique on enLogger for that guy now
10:08 < dx> deja vu
10:13 <+md_5> "* The author has put no less than 3 binary files in the libs/ folder. As this project is stored in a DVCS repository, this is not ideal behaviour. Instead a dependency resolving build system such as Maven should be used to allow consistent compilation and depend resolution, as well as allowing easy building of the project by users and continuous integration servers alike."
10:13 <+md_5> I iz good review dx 
10:14 < dx> i've put a library binary in a git repo once
10:14 < dx> a library binary inside a maven repo in a git repo
10:15 < dx> stack overflow told me it was a good idea
10:16 <+md_5> public interface enLogType {
10:16 <+md_5> public abstract String getTableName();
10:16 <+md_5> > interfacce
10:16 <+md_5> > abstract and public methods
10:17 < dx> >your interface when
10:18 < dx> note to self: insult good developers the next time i need an extensive code review
10:19 < Grum> md_5: they are public and abstract
10:19 <+md_5> Grum its implied
10:20 < Grum> but you can leave it out as that is what is implied
10:20 <+md_5> no need to specifically put it there
10:20 < Grum> yup
10:20 < Grum> haha
10:20 < Grum> are you going to add a comment to every single line? :p
10:20 <+md_5> "* The interface enLogType, fails to conform to the implied guidelines of Java interfaces. In Java, every method in an interface is both abstract and public. Explicitly declaring the contained methods as such is a waste of time, and may lead to ambiguity, causing the code to look like it is part of abstract class, when it is in fact part of an interface. "
10:20 <+md_5> ignore my fancy wording which might be semantically incorrect in some cases
10:20 < Grum> awww ;)
10:21 < Grum> at least i'm doing more fun things!
10:21  * Grum adds more alpha & old versions to the game :p
10:21 <+md_5> Grum like bashing --someone-- to reply to me about minecon
10:21 < Grum> md_5: panel stuffs?
10:21 <+md_5> booth
10:21 <+md_5> but w/e
10:21 < Grum> shoudl be this week iirc
10:21 <+md_5> Grum I must know
10:21 <+md_5> does this code actually exist
10:21 <+md_5> http://paste.md-5.net/xolivuxumo.avrasm
10:21 <+md_5> or is the decompiler shitty
10:22 < Grum> thefuk
10:22 < Grum> lets see
10:22 < dx> that really sounds lik a shitty decompiler
10:22 < dx> *like
10:22 <+md_5> 5 nested labels
10:22 <+md_5> and 6 synchronized decrement blocks
10:23 < Grum> what on earth is that in?
10:23 < dx> just grep "Can\'t resolve hostname"? :D
10:23 < SinZ> I would assume minecraft multiplayer menu
10:23 < Grum> yeah hehe
10:23 < SinZ> it is all the results from packet254 pinging
10:23 < Grum> that is compiler fail not understanding a finally block
10:23 <+md_5> Grum : "ThreadPollServers"
10:24 <+md_5> extends Thread
10:24 <+md_5>     ThreadPollServers(GuiSlotServer par1GuiSlotServer, ServerData par2ServerData)
10:24 <+md_5> is the constructor
10:24 <+md_5> string search for ""Polling..""
10:24 < dx> all of that is a single finally?
10:24 <+md_5> or "Communication error" will find it
10:24 < Grum> its found; not sure wht it does that O.o
10:25 < Grum>                                     synchronized (GuiMultiplayer.getLock())  <-- that is just an 'Object' to lock on
10:26 < Grum> http://pastie.org/private/gst5dallfmotg9vuuhdwa
10:27 < dx> those breaks in the decompiled code... don't really behave like finally, do they?
10:28 < dx> oh wait i see it now
10:28 <+md_5> * In the class enExecutor the author has seemingly reimplemented the helper methods present in java.util.concurrent.Executors. Additionally this reimplementation is very bad an inefficient for a number of reasons. The core pool size, as well as the max pool size are both set very low. Under high loads this may lead to resource starvation whereupon new jobs may not be able to be executed in a timely manner. Additionally the ExecutorService has a keep alive 
10:28 <+md_5> time of 0 seconds. This entirely defeats the purpose of using this class, as the result is no caching of created threads. Finally the author has set the internal queue used to be an ArrayBlockingQueue. Unless there is particular reasoning behind this, it is recommended that the ThreadPoolExecutor internal pull is that of a SynchronousQueue.
10:28 < dx> finally behaves like finally. if var27 is set finally is disabled, and the break one runs
10:28 <+md_5> I'm writing so much bullshit
10:28 <+md_5> not even funny
10:28 < dx> lol.
10:28 <+md_5> and so much will be lost in google translate
10:28 <+SpaceManiac> md_5: what are you reviewing, exactly?
10:28 <+md_5> SpaceManiac this guy is bashing my code: https://github.com/SpigotMC/BungeeCord/issues/545
10:29 <+md_5> so I'm bashing his: https://github.com/Ensemplix/enLogger/
10:29 <+md_5> but properly
10:29 < dx> internet arguments are serious business
10:29 < Grum> ThreadPoolExecutor internal pull is that of a SynchronousQueue. <-- internal pool? :)
10:30 <+md_5> oops
10:30 <+md_5> GuiMultiplayer.getThreadsPending() < 5 
10:30 <+md_5> That is the reason I only have 5 servers in my list
10:30 <+md_5> it pisses me off when they dont ping at once
10:30 <+SpaceManiac> oh neat the Minecraft launcher has been fancied up
10:31 <+ammar2> "fancied"
10:31 < dx> mine still looks like "the java swing default theme hates linux"
10:32 <+SpaceManiac> it still sometimes forgets to decompress the tumblr but that's happened since it was added so whatever
10:32 <+md_5> Grum also you know how you said he .closes() verything
10:32 <+md_5> his connections are pull objects
10:32 <+md_5> .close() returns to the pool
10:32 <+md_5> why am I typing pull so much :(
10:32 < dx> pull? pool? poll?
10:32 < dx> i'm so confused
10:33 < Grum> SpaceManiac: i think tumbler actually lies or sends broken data somehow
10:34 <+SpaceManiac> makes sense
10:34 < dx> wait, what html renderer does the launcher use? i just realized i never paid attention to that
10:34 <+md_5> swing
10:35 < dx> ..swing has a built in html renderer?
10:35 < dx> oh wait, actually, it makes sense. java.
10:35 <+ammar2> ye
10:35 <+ammar2> many gui toolkits do
10:37 <+SpaceManiac> I need to get around to marketing McURL at some point
10:38 < Yoshi2> SpaceManiac: what does McURL do?
10:39 <+ammar2> probably protocol based mc links which join the game, like irc:// or steam://
10:39 <+SpaceManiac> It's a small app that handles minecraft:// urls and launches the game
10:39 < dx> "The Windows edition definitely works, and the Linux and Mac OS X versions work most of the time but apparently not always"
10:39 < dx> so reliable
10:39 < dx> i have no idea if i googled the right one
10:39 <+SpaceManiac> yeah, that's my text alright
10:40 < dx> okay
10:40 <+SpaceManiac> I develop on Windows so I know it works there - don't own a Mac or have other easy access to one, but it's been tested
10:41 <+SpaceManiac> Linux relies on the browser or desktop environment, both of which vary widely, while on Windows and Mac there's a central storage of some type
10:42 <+SpaceManiac> I recently updated it for the new launcher system, actually made things a lot easier on me
11:03 < dx> dinnerbro's last tweet, "Mapmakers are gonna love this. People wh[REDACTED]ven more.", i wonder what the [REDACTED] part is
11:03 < dx> maybe he did something for us but is too shy to show it publicly!
11:04 < Yoshi2> "People who <something> even more."
11:04 <+SpaceManiac> "People who make maps are going to love me even more"
11:04 < dx> SpaceManiac: too boring and realistic
11:05 < Yoshi2> maybe minecraft is finally switching to utf-8? :D
11:06 < dx> if you add 744 objectives to the scoreboard, utf-8 mode is unlocked permanently for the server!
11:06 < Grum> Yoshi2: to what? pure ascii?
11:07 < dx> why do i feel that grum is ignoring the most significant bits of our requests
11:07 < dx> well, just the most significant bit
11:08 <+SpaceManiac> yes, but is it on the right or the left?
11:10 < Grum> dx: not going to happen
11:10 <+md_5> FAK
11:10 <+md_5> left the page again
11:10 <+md_5> lucky I have a recentish backup
11:10 < dx> Grum: that was just a pun :D
11:10 <+md_5> lost a whole 2 paraghraphs though
11:10 <+md_5> fuck
11:10 < dx> md_5: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/textarea-cache/
11:10 <+md_5> I was so happy with those last 2
11:10 <+md_5> fuck
11:11 <+md_5> thanks dx
11:15 <+md_5> * In the main plugin class, enLogger, the author has provided a public field for access to a logging service. Unfortunately this field violates the Java convention that a Logger should be declared both static, and final. Additionally this field is a gets the logger entitled "Minecraft". This application is designed to run as a plugin for the popular Minecraft plugin container named Bukkit. Unfortunately the Bukkit API specification itself makes no guarante
11:15 <+md_5> es about the existence of any logger named "Minecraft", the appropriate getter should be used instead. This brings up the next point. Each time a message is logged to the aforementioned logger, the message is manually concated to the prefix string "[enLogger]", this is redundant and messy, as the Bukkit API provides a builtin method to do this. In order to solve these two logging problems, the logger should be replaced with a reference to JavaPlugin.getLog
11:15 <+md_5> ger(). This has the guarantees that the logger will exist, and will automatically prepend the prefix.
11:16 <+SpaceManiac> Logger.getLogger("Minecraft") is one of my most hated Bukkit plugin antipatterns
11:27 <+md_5> Grum , dx https://github.com/SpigotMC/BungeeCord/issues/545#issuecomment-22167363
11:27 <+md_5> I'm done :D
11:27 <+md_5> comments welcome
11:28 < dx> due to my usual tl;dr reading pattern the first thing i saw was "This is just a small insight"
11:28 < dx> :D
11:30 <+md_5> its 1000 words of pain dx
11:31 <+pdelvo> "it catches and logs Exception, just like a Pokemon" lol 
11:32 <+md_5> pdelvo you dont know what I am referring to?
11:32 <+md_5> pokemon exception handling
11:32 <+md_5> "gotta catch em all"
11:32 < dx> why does it seem that the review is longer than the code itself
11:32 <+md_5> cause it is?
11:33 < dx> well fuck. you're good at this
11:34 < dx> also, is the "smurf naming convention" always bad in your opinion, or is it just because it goes against the java naming conventions?
11:34 <+md_5> dx depends really
11:34 < dx> i've used that one a few times in the past (in other languages)
11:34 <+md_5> in his case, very bad
11:34 <+md_5> the only time i use it
11:34 <+md_5> is when I have something that already exists
11:35 <+md_5> eg, java.util.concurrent.Executor
11:35 <+dav1d> destroyed.
11:35 <+md_5> and then I want BungeeExecutor
11:35 <+md_5> or whatever
11:35 <+md_5> otherwise, dont use it
11:35 <+pdelvo> this is why there are namespaces
11:35 < dx> and java forces the namespaces into everything
11:36 <+md_5> pdelvo but what about
11:36 <+md_5> BungeeExecutor extends Executor
11:36 <+md_5> I dont want to put
11:36 <+md_5> BungeeExecutor extends java.util.concurrent.Executor
11:36 <+md_5> cause fully qualified is ugly
11:37 <+pdelvo> so you prefer to write more everytime you use the BungeeExecuter instead of writing "java.util.concurrent.Executer" one time?
11:37 <+md_5> it was an example
11:37 <+md_5> there are limited cases to use prefixed classes
11:39 < dx> needs more "import tk.md-5.bungee.Executor as BungeeExecutor;"
11:41 <+pdelvo> btw: http://dinnerbone.com/media/uploads/2013-08/screenshots/Minecraft_1.6.2_2013-08-06_11-19-35.O28061383.png
11:41 < dx> pdelvo: doesn't look like utf-8 :(
11:41 <+pdelvo> Dört Dug
11:41 <+pdelvo> :D
11:42 < dx> ...yeah that isn't utf-8 either
11:44 <+pdelvo> Dört Dug. Now its utf-8
11:45 <+dav1d> Dört
11:45 < dx> thanks! so pdelvo, when did you get commit access to minecraft?
11:45 < dx> (we're still talking about utf-8 strings in the protocol right)
11:46 <+dav1d> dx: NOT A PRIORTIY
11:46 <+pdelvo> I know. 
11:49 < dx> dört is cake in czech
11:51 < dx> "four" in turkish and "port" in welsh
12:09 <+md_5> https://github.com/SpigotMC/BungeeCord/issues/545#issuecomment-22169016
12:09 <+md_5> ahaha
12:09 <+md_5> he replied
12:17 < dx> md_5: aaand nuked the plugin from github
12:17 <+md_5> fuck
12:17 <+md_5> why
12:17 <+md_5> didnt I clone it
12:17 <+md_5> fuck
12:17 <+md_5> duck
12:17 < dx> corin was right
12:17 < dx> maximum damage control
12:25 < dx> md_5: well i got the main .java files from my firefox cache
12:25 <+md_5> lolnice
12:25 <+md_5> what addon
12:26 < dx> no addons, web developer menu->work offline, then ctrl-f over about:cache?device=disk
12:45 < dx> md_5: http://dequis.org/enlogger/
12:46 < dx> i made a tiny html header with the github css for it to display correctly, but since it's full of syntax highlighting it's not trivial to scrape
12:52 < dx> and if you consider that mirror a "fork", it's legal even if the code didn't have a defined license due to the github terms of service :D
12:53 <+md_5> nice you got it all
12:53 < dx> md_5: ...wait what, your last comment
12:54 < SinZ> sounds fun
12:54 < dx> and i thought i was too bored for spending this while rebuilding those pages
12:55 < SinZ> md_5: should add more restrictions, like handling multiple requests (and at same time)
12:55 <+md_5> SinZ meh, I know I have it done
12:55 <+md_5> I can do about 3kb with multiple requests
12:55 <+md_5> and 2kb with single requests
12:56 <+md_5> maybe down even more if I run it through proguard
12:56 < dx> you should specify it's binary size then
12:56 <+md_5> meh he hasnt accepted yet
12:57 < dx> he's probably afk for dinner
12:57 <+md_5> dx its a joke
12:57 <+md_5> he is in latvia anyway
12:57 <+md_5> sure aint dinnertime
12:57 < dx> i know lol
12:57 < dx> wait what... latvia?
12:58 <+md_5> ]is also latvia
12:58 <+md_5> *pbunny
12:58 < dx> yeah
12:59 < dx> (parsing that replacement of "]" into "pbunny" was mostly guessing. this is the reason i'll never be able to write a script to auto-replace corrections using "*")
13:41 < Grum> md_5: hehe 
15:03 < ShaRose> lold at the Biggest Pleb medal
18:27 <+AndrewPH> ShaRose: plebmaster
23:39 < redstonehelper> so much modmail!
--- Day changed mer. août 07 2013
00:04 <@TkTech> redstonehelper: /r/minecraft?
00:04 < redstonehelper> TkTech: /r/gifs?
00:05 < TkTech> redstonehelper: oO How'd you end up as a mod on /r/gifs?
00:05 < redstonehelper> I'm not
00:05 < redstonehelper> I just replied to your highlighting me with a subreddit with highlighting you with another subreddit
00:05 < TkTech> … "[17:40:00] <redstonehelper>	 so much modmail!"
00:06 < TkTech> …"[18:04:26] <@TkTech>	 redstonehelper: /r/minecraft?"
00:06 < redstonehelper> oh, yeah
00:06 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: move progressing?
00:06 <+dav1d> Alzheimer? :>
00:06 < redstonehelper> something exploded and our bot was removing just about everything, so people complained
00:06 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: I have internet again, was verrry close to jumping out the window.
00:06 < redstonehelper> like 20 modmails to reply, all along with dozens of posts and comments to manually go over, within 10 minutes
00:06 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: haha
00:08 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: can't play tonight tho, maybe tomorrow
00:08 <+dav1d> metaclasses <3
00:08 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: 'daw. Okay, I'll probably just do a few more L3s
00:09 <+dav1d> http://vp.dav1d.de/Tjc?py :D
00:10 <+dav1d> should probably return a class with __call__ but whatever
00:20 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: Stupid Sun-thing, can't take a good picture. http://i.imgur.com/IUCQoTP.jpg
00:20 <+sadimusi> sweet
00:21 < TkTech> There's a school/park in front of me, so I don't have to worry about a building blocking my view
01:13 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: nice!
12:51 < Brottweiler> dav1d: eu octc btw :D
15:28 <+dav1d> Brottweiler: mh?
15:31 < Brottweiler> dav1d: european octc
15:31 < Brottweiler> server
15:31 <+dav1d> Brottweiler: what is with that?
15:31 < Brottweiler> did you know? :o
15:31 <+dav1d> Brottweiler: I don't get it
15:31 <+dav1d> Brottweiler: what do you want to tell me?^^
15:31 < Brottweiler> dav1d: Well, you know octc? <.<
15:32 <+dav1d> Brottweiler: yes?
15:32 < Brottweiler> you know how it hosted in the US?
15:32 < Brottweiler> or that it is hosted in the US 
15:32 <+dav1d> ah
15:32 <+dav1d> I see :D
15:32 < Brottweiler> they got an EU server now
15:32 < Brottweiler> :p
15:32 <+dav1d> nice
15:32 < Brottweiler> hosted in England though :(
15:32 < Brottweiler> afaik shotbow is hosted in germany
15:32 <+dav1d> hopefully less lag...
15:32 <+dav1d> yeah at hetzner iirc
15:32 < Brottweiler> you can jump up and sit on it dav1d 
15:33 <+dav1d> :P
15:33 < Brottweiler> 145ms to US, 35ms to EU
15:33 <+dav1d> not bad
15:43 < redstonehelper> Brottweiler: I think shotbow eu is either in france or in england
15:43 <+dav1d> redstonehelper: eu2?
15:43 < Brottweiler> eu.shotbow
15:44 < Brottweiler> redstonehelper: And I doubt it
15:44 < Brottweiler> Gonna see if I can find the tweet
15:44 < redstonehelper> this one says uk: http://eu.shotbow.net.w3snoop.com/
15:45 < Brottweiler> redstonehelper: they have DDoS protection though
15:45 < Brottweiler> proxy and stuff so you cant ping em
15:45 < redstonehelper> yeah they always pride themselves in that then it always bites them in the ass in random little details
15:46 < redstonehelper> shotbow eu host is http://www.redstation.com/
15:46 < redstonehelper> looks like a UK host
15:46 < Brottweiler> same as octc
15:46 < Brottweiler> I am positive Highlife, or lazer, tweeted out that it is hosted in germany
15:46 < redstonehelper> here highlife says they use redstation http://www.reddit.com/r/MineZ/comments/1j1dn2/oceania_australia_players_lend_me_your_pings/cbae2ry?context=2
15:47 < Brottweiler> Hmm, 12 days ago though, possibly they changed?
15:47 < redstonehelper> doubt it
15:47 < redstonehelper> there was no real downtime
21:54 <+AndrewPH> md_5: lmao I told him to stop posting and he got el mad
21:54 <+AndrewPH> i guess u should stop coding since he's so much better
22:02 <+ammar2> AndrewPH: o you are andrewphorn? I wonder who that pleb is :-)
22:02 <+ammar2> wondered*
22:03 <+AndrewPH> yeah i'm that pleb
22:48 <+dav1d> lol this issue
23:58 <+dav1d> TkTech: wiki.vg is down
23:58 <+dav1d> TkTech: beta.wiki.vg works though
23:58 <+dav1d> DNS error
23:59 <+sadimusi> wiki.vg works fine for me
23:59 <+sadimusi> (after flushing the dns and browser cache multiple times)
23:59 <+dav1d> sadimusi: not for me and some other guy
23:59 <+dav1d> ah
--- Day changed jeu. août 08 2013
00:00 <+sadimusi> no, it worked the whole time, I just wanted to make sure it wasn't cached somehow
00:00 <+dav1d> not for me and some other guy, strange
00:02 <+dav1d> still getting dns error
00:03 <+sadimusi> what does dig say?
00:05 <+dav1d> sadimusi: in which packet is dig located?
00:05 <+sadimusi> no idea, it's preinstalled most of the time
00:05 <+dav1d> arch :D
00:06 <+sadimusi> dnsutils
00:07 <+dav1d> great cant install it because I am outdated
00:07 < TkTech> dav1d: WorksForMe™
00:07 <+dav1d> TkTech: mh
00:07 < dexter0> ^
00:08 <+dav1d> for me + someone other not
00:08 < TkTech> DNS is fine, resolves okay, TTL is fine, no change to DNS options or any routing options.
00:08 <+dav1d> maybe it'l got away
00:08 <+dav1d> TkTech: which ip should it point to?
00:08 < TkTech> Do these people happen to be your region?
00:08 <+dav1d> TkTech: no idea, guy in #d
00:09 < TkTech> http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/wiki.vg
00:09 < TkTech> No interruptions on route 53, EC2, or any other service.
00:09 <+dav1d> mh strange
00:09 <+sadimusi> btw, do we still have +r?
00:10 <+dav1d> yes
00:10 < TkTech> sadimusi: /mode
00:10 < TkTech> * /mode #mcdevs
00:10 <+sadimusi> Colloquy sucks...
00:11 <+sadimusi> at least at this
00:11 < TkTech> Yes it does. Textual is the current hip child.
00:11 <+sadimusi> looks pretty
00:11 <+dav1d> dig doesn't error :(
00:14 <+sadimusi> that does indeed look much better :)
01:02 <+SpaceManiac> I fixed ZNC's nickserv troubles but brought back chansaver troubles :I
02:02 < ffmdr> can anyone point me at readable 0x2C parsing code?
02:02 < ffmdr> http://wiki.vg/Protocol#Entity_Properties_.280x2C.29
02:02 < ffmdr> it looks tricky
02:05 < ffmdr> and spout doesn't even touch ListElement?
02:05 < ffmdr> https://github.com/Vanilla/Vanilla/blob/master/src/main/java/org/spout/vanilla/protocol/codec/entity/EntityPropertiesCodec.java
02:06 < ffmdr> so the list element is long long double byte...so is spout codec wrong?
02:06 < ffmdr> I guess if they don't read the list the stream if out of sync right?
02:07 < umby24> https://github.com/umby24/Minebot/blob/master/Packets/entProps.cs
02:07 < umby24> I don't exactly do anythign with the data, but it works for actually getting it
02:08 < ffmdr> thanks, it looks like spout shit network stack is wrong again
02:08 < umby24> lolk, np.
02:31 < ffmdr> ok so it looks like that whole listelement was added in 1.6.2
02:40 < umby24> mhm
02:40 < ffmdr> mhm it wasn't here in 1.6.1
03:21 <+AndrewPH> omg the antispam question doesn't work
03:23 <+AndrewPH> oh it's dwarfs not dwarves
14:55 < Foorack> Hello?
14:55 <+pdelvo> hi
14:56 < Foorack> Hi pdelvo.. How many "active" peoples are here? or is it only you and me?
14:56 <+dav1d> 96 people
14:58 < Foorack> and all 96 people are here right now? I mean that they will answer or are they AFK?
14:58 < redstonehelper> they will all answer you
14:58 < redstonehelper> you are very important to us.
14:58 <+dav1d> people say there are now dumb questions, but that's one of these. If you have a question just ask it
14:59 < Foorack> ok :) but that wasent what i mean.. I was just checking if everyone was AFK, but its seem that everyone is here so.. :)
14:59 < redstonehelper> dav1d, let's join other channels and see if the people there are afk
14:59 < redstonehelper> now I'm being mean.
14:59 <+dav1d> redstonehelper: #idlerpg!
14:59 <+dav1d> Foorack: ofc they are
15:00 <+dav1d> people have other things to do and check here and there irc
15:00 < Foorack> ok, sorry.. ;P
15:00 <+pdelvo> why no afk -> ban? :o
15:00 <+dav1d> no worries that is pretty common ...
15:01 < Foorack> but anyway, is there someone here that know how the server is creating the authentication part
15:01 < Foorack> ?
15:01 <+dav1d> yes
15:01 <+dav1d> but what is your question
15:02 < Foorack> im currently trying to create a minecraft server from scratch to learn more java-server.. things.. 
15:02 < Foorack> but now I need to send a 0xFD packet
15:03 < Foorack> But I dont know what I should send in the fields: Server id, Public key and Verify token
15:05 < Foorack> any ideas? how would I create the server ID? and what is public key and verify token for something?
15:06 < Foorack> the verify token seems to be 4 random bytes.. but I still dont know what the public key and ID is and how I will create/generate them..
15:06 <+Fador> server ID and verify token are just random strings you generate I believe..
15:06 <+dav1d> you saw http://wiki.vg/Protocol_Encryption right?
15:06 < Foorack> Yes, Looking at it= yes...... Understanding it: Kinda (no)
15:06 < Foorack> oh, sorry.. i see now:
15:06 < Foorack> The server ID string is a randomly-generated string of characters with a maximum length of 20 code points
15:07 < Foorack> ok, Now i understand what both verify token is and id is..
15:07 < Foorack> But the public key?
15:07 < Foorack> is that random generated too?
15:08 <+dav1d> no
15:08 <+dav1d> you generate a private key/public key pair and send the public to the client
15:08 < Foorack> so 2 keys? one public and one private?
15:09 <+dav1d> Foorack: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSA_(algorithm)
15:09 <+dav1d> there are libraries generating these pairs
15:10 <+dav1d> dunno what you'd use for Java though
15:12 < Foorack> ok, that wikipedia article help a little but i found this in the source code
15:12 < Foorack> KeyPairGenerator localKeyPairGenerator = KeyPairGenerator.getInstance("RSA");
15:12 < Foorack> localKeyPairGenerator.initialize(1024);
15:12 < Foorack> return localKeyPairGenerator.generateKeyPair();
15:13 < Foorack> is that how minecraft generates the X key.. if so is that generating public, private or both?
15:13 <+dav1d> well it says "KeyPair"
15:14 < Foorack> and that is?  (im not used to encyption in java)
15:14 < Foorack> I also found this that seems to generate the PUBLIC KEy:
15:14 < Foorack> X509EncodedKeySpec localX509EncodedKeySpec = new X509EncodedKeySpec(paramArrayOfByte);
15:14 < Foorack> KeyFactory localKeyFactory = KeyFactory.getInstance("RSA");
15:14 < Foorack> return localKeyFactory.generatePublic(localX509EncodedKeySpec);
15:14 < Foorack> No. idea what it means :S
15:15 <+dav1d> google it, or copy it
15:15 <+dav1d> I am not familiar with this Java crap
15:15 < Foorack> ok, thanks for help
15:15 <+dav1d> but the names look like what you'd need
15:15 <+dav1d> so if you don't want to understand it, simply copy it
15:15 < Foorack> brb for some min
15:16 < Foorack> ok will "copy" it later ;P
15:16 <+dav1d> Foorack: I think there is also a generatePrivate
15:16 <+dav1d> (according to google)
15:16 <+dav1d> http://docs.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/security/KeyFactory.html
15:16 <+dav1d> but the factory itself is probably enough
15:44 < Foorack> back.. And i found a solution:
15:44 < Foorack> .
15:44 < Foorack> KeyPairGenerator kpg = KeyPairGenerator.getInstance("RSA");
15:44 < Foorack> kpg.initialize(1024);
15:44 < Foorack> KeyPair kp = kpg.genKeyPair();
15:44 < Foorack> Key publicKey = kp.getPublic();
15:44 < Foorack> Key privateKey = kp.getPrivate();
15:46 < Foorack> .
15:46 < redstonehelper> if you're gonna paste more than one or two lines of code, use something like pastebin please
15:47 < Foorack> So thanks for all help!
15:47 < Foorack> ok, thanks for tip redstonehelper
15:47 < Foorack> ;)
15:47 <+dav1d> Good luck with your project
15:49 < Foorack> thanks, david. have to go. cya all! =D
17:04 < TkTech> Pfft, IRC virgins.
17:04 < Calinou> no u
20:21 <+AndrewPH> md_5: wow it turns out ur actually better than ensirius, who kneww???!
20:23 <+dav1d> why would someone delte these comments -.-
20:24 <+dav1d> I wish github would track comments with git, too :P
20:26 <+ammar2> AndrewPH: the past continous term is rekking
20:26 <+ammar2> not rekting
20:43 <+AndrewPH> rekt -> rektin
20:50 < TkTech> There seems to be so much context missing here.
20:53 <+ammar2> AndrewPH: rekt is the past tense
20:53 <+ammar2> I rekt you. He rekt me
20:53 <+ammar2> rek is the verb itself
20:54 <+AndrewPH> TkTech: some guy claimed his bad code was better than bungee
23:59 < Foorack> hey again
--- Day changed ven. août 09 2013
00:00 < Foorack> hallo?
00:00 < Foorack> hello*
00:02 <+dav1d> hi, just ask your question :P
00:07 < Foorack> Hi, im still working on the server.. I think i got the encrypt/decrypt part
00:08 < Foorack> but when im send a KeyRequestPacket with server id it says:
00:08 < Foorack> Java.io.IOExcpetion: Received string length longer than maximum allowed (184 > 20)
00:09 < Foorack> but I have tripple checked.. my serverID IS 20 character long
00:09 <+sadimusi> how are you sending strings?
00:09 < Foorack> using a DataOutputStream and out.writeChars()
00:10 <+sadimusi> and it's prefixed with the length?
00:11 < Foorack> can i write the code, here? its 3 lines
00:12 < Foorack> out.writeByte(Protocol.PACKET_ENCRYPT_KEY_REQUEST);  //Protocol.Packet_encrypt__ is the byte for the packet
00:12 < Foorack> out.writeShort(serverID.length() + publicKey.getEncoded().length + 4);
00:12 < Foorack> out.writeChars(serverID);
00:12 <+sadimusi> o.O
00:12 < Foorack> ?
00:12 <+sadimusi> it should jsut be out.writeShort(serverID.length())
00:12 < Foorack> also, im curiois about the 
00:12 < Foorack> sorry
00:12 <+dav1d> why do you add all that stuff to the serverID.length?
00:12 <+sadimusi> the other lengths come afterwards
00:12 < Foorack> pressed enter
00:13 < Foorack> I have to send public key and token too
00:13 <+sadimusi> packets are never prefixed with a length, just some fields are
00:13 < Foorack> but im curiois about the + 4 thing...
00:13 < Foorack> I think it is because im using length identifyer for both arrays
00:13 <+sadimusi> where did you get that from?
00:14 < Foorack> 1 sec.. using pastebin
00:15 < Foorack> http://pastebin.com/SyhLY55x
00:15 < Foorack> thats is supposed to send EncryptKeyRequest packet
00:15 <+sadimusi> out.writeShort(serverID.length()) should fix it
00:15 <+sadimusi> but I really wouldn't define packets like this
00:16 < Foorack> should i remove the publicKey length and the +4 thing?
00:16 <+sadimusi> yes
00:17 < Foorack> I thugth it was <packetId> <sizeForWHOLEpayload> <payload>... but im guess i was wrong then
00:17 <+sadimusi> you were
00:17 <+sadimusi> the packet length is never sent
00:18 < Foorack> so the same for my EncryptKeyRESPONSE packet? pastebin it now...
00:18 < Foorack> http://pastebin.com/XrnG2zYt
00:18 < Foorack> should I remove the first writeShort or what?
00:19 <+sadimusi> yes
00:20 <+sadimusi> also, instead of the loops just do out.write(token)
00:21 < Foorack> So a good result would be: http://pastebin.com/101fWhXt   ?
00:22 <+sadimusi> yes
00:22 <+sadimusi> I still wouldn't define the whole protocol like this
00:22 <+sadimusi> + though
00:22 < Foorack> why not?
00:23 <+sadimusi> because it gets big, confusing and hard to maintain
00:23 <+sadimusi> plus you have to define every packet twice (read & write)
00:24 <+sadimusi> I still haven't completed my mc4p update, but the protocol definition looks something like this: https://gist.github.com/sadimusi/6025899
00:24 < Foorack> so what do you reccomend? should i do as notch did in his server, define each packet as each class/file
00:24 < Foorack> ?
00:25 <+sadimusi> in java I would probably make an enum with a constructor that takes an id plus a variable number of fields
00:26 <+sadimusi> could look something like this in the end:
00:26 <+sadimusi> enum Packet {
00:26 <+sadimusi>   CHAT(0x03, StringField("message"))
00:26 <+sadimusi> }
00:26 <+sadimusi> obviously with more packets and field types
00:27 < Foorack> hmm.. good idea, thanks :)
00:28 <+sadimusi> you can see in the gist that I added some special field types for more complex packets
00:34 < Foorack> sorry, cant see.. I dont understand python
00:34 < Foorack> :(
00:34 <+sadimusi> it's not really about python
00:34 <+sadimusi> I just added a List and Conditional type for some of the more complex packets
00:35 <+sadimusi> plus of course an item stack and a metadata type
00:54 < Foorack> ok.. Now i got the encryptedKeyRequest thing done.. but now when my server asking session.minecraft.net it says: NO
00:55 < Foorack> thats it, just 2 characters.. NO 
00:55 < Foorack> no idea why.
00:55 <+sadimusi> what are you sending it exactly?
00:55 < Foorack> sending to the client or mojang servers
00:55 <+sadimusi> mojang
00:55 < Foorack> always forgetting the questionmark...
00:56 < Foorack> "http://session.minecraft.net/game/checkserver.jsp?user=" + username + "&serverId=" + serverID
00:56 <+sadimusi> the serverID is the one you sent to the client earlier?
00:56 < Foorack> yes
00:57 <+sadimusi> yeah, that's not how it works anymore
00:57 <+sadimusi> http://wiki.vg/Protocol_Encryption#Authentication
00:57 <+sadimusi> you have to create a hash from the id, the shared secret and your public key and use that as the server ud
00:57 <+sadimusi> *id
00:58 < Foorack> ok, thanks :)
00:59 <+sadimusi> I think minecraft just uses (new BigInteger(hash)).toString(16)
01:00 <+sadimusi> that's where the odd hexadecimal strings come from
01:06 < Foorack> would this has work? if I use the string thats comes from the function as 'hash' in the attempt to verify at mojang?
01:06 < Foorack> sorry for bad english.. VERY tired :P
01:07 < Foorack> not drunk, but very tired.. but thats another topic..
01:07 < Foorack> http://pastebin.com/f5AcsAkA
01:09 <+sadimusi> no, that won't work
01:10 < Foorack> why?
01:10 <+sadimusi> look at the examples on the wiki
01:10 < Foorack> yes, Im already doing that
01:11 < Foorack> but Im sure I have made many mistakes
01:11 <+sadimusi> the length is not constant for one
01:11 <+sadimusi> leading zeros are removed
01:12 <+sadimusi> and hashes with the first bit set are treated as negative numbers
01:13 <+sadimusi> like I said, just use (new BigInteger(crypt.digest())).toString(16)
01:14 < Foorack> return new BigInteger(crypt.digest()).toString(16); ??
01:14 < Foorack> thanks
01:16 < Foorack> thanks * 1000 sadimusi :),, its working now
01:17 <+dav1d> ^ that is python
01:20 < Foorack> Anyone knows what means with Server enables AES/CFB8 stream encryption?
01:21 < Foorack> Should wrap the inputstream and outputstream to another reader/writer or should I encrypt everything I send?
01:22 <+sadimusi> in java I'd just use bc's CipherOutputStream
01:23 <+sadimusi> this might help https://github.com/SimpleServer/SimpleServer/blob/master/src/simpleserver/stream/Encryption.java#L128-L150
01:23 <+sadimusi> as does the rest of the file
01:28 < Foorack> so the outputstream should encrypt everything and the inputstream shoudl decrypt everything?.... In the example it seems that both in and out is only ecrypting and not decrypting..
01:28 <+sadimusi> the boolean flag in cipher.init specifies the direction
01:29 <+sadimusi> https://github.com/SimpleServer/SimpleServer/blob/master/src/simpleserver/stream/Encryption.java#L130
01:29 < Foorack> oh, yeah i see now .... It both that im tired and the secret key was named sharedKey..
01:29 < Foorack> thanks for help :)
01:30 <+sadimusi> it's a shared secret, so both terms are correct
01:30 <+sadimusi> (shared might even be correct-er)
01:41 < Foorack> I imported bouncycastle and now I have over 8000 errors..
01:41 < Foorack> its seems to be missing org.bouncycastle.asn1 package
01:51 < Foorack> nevermind
01:51 < Foorack> thanks for all help, have to go now, cya
04:06 < Seegee> m
04:06 < Seegee> l
04:06 < Seegee> l
04:06 < Seegee> l
16:52 < Foorack> Hey
16:54 < Foorack> hello?
16:54 < Foorack> anyone that can help me with a problem?
16:57 < shoghicp> yes?
16:57 < shoghicp> Foorack: ping
16:58 < Foorack> Im currntly trying to create a mc  server from scratch
16:58 < Foorack> and follow the wiki step by step
16:58 < Foorack> http://wiki.vg/Protocol_FAQ
16:58 < Foorack> all the encrypt-decrypt part is done
16:58 < Foorack> at step 11
16:59 < Foorack> I send the 0xFC packet, enable AES stream and start wait for the 0xCD packet
16:59 < Foorack> but it never comes..
16:59 < Foorack> problem: client never send packet at step 14
16:59 < shoghicp> Tell me what you are receiving
17:00 < shoghicp> or
17:00 < shoghicp> what do you send
17:00 < Foorack> thats the problem, im not reciving anything.. I'm sending the 0xFC packet at step 11 and then the client not sending packet as in step 14
17:01 < Foorack> sending what?
17:01 < shoghicp> the bytes itself
17:01 < Foorack> should i tell what I send in packet 0xFC in step 11?
17:01 < shoghicp> yes, put somewhere the hexdump of that packet
17:02 < Foorack> hexdump? I can pastebin the code if thats what you mean..
17:03 < shoghicp> no, they bytes on the network
17:03 < shoghicp> use Wireshark or tcpdump
17:04 < Foorack> do I need to install any of those programs?
17:04 < Foorack> The only thing im sending is this: http://pastebin.com/pQfvDmuu
17:06 < shoghicp> let me see
17:07 < shoghicp> http://pastebin.com/sUTpEhBq
17:07 < shoghicp> REQUEST -> RESPONSE
17:07 < shoghicp> and you have to remove the byte arrays itself
17:07 < shoghicp> try that
17:09 < Foorack> should i remove the lines where I send   :      out.write(new byte[0]); ?
17:09 < shoghicp> yep
17:10 < shoghicp> the shorts tell the client that the byte array has length zero
17:10 < shoghicp> so no data is sent
17:10 < shoghicp> Foorack: also, check the packet id, REQUEST -> RESPONSE
17:11 < Foorack> yes, did that, (thanks * 1000), its working now
17:11 < shoghicp> :)
17:14 < Foorack> now its working,,
17:14 < Foorack> strange..
17:15 < Foorack> I send the login packet as in step 15 and the server responds with packet 52
17:15 < Foorack> whats that for packet?
17:15 <+dav1d> http://wiki.vg/Protocol
17:15 < Foorack> on the wiki it only says in hex and what hex is 52?
17:16 <+dav1d> you should learn the basics
17:16 <+dav1d> 52 in hex is 0x34
17:16 < Foorack> how did you know that? :O
17:16 <+dav1d> I cheated, but doing that by hand isn't hard
17:17 <+dav1d> python -c "print hex(52)"
17:17 < Foorack> mm. found that cheat in java too :) System.out.println(Integer.toHexString(0xFC));
17:17 < Foorack> (oh, replace 0xFC with 52)
17:18 <+dav1d> but these are the basics of CS
17:19 < Foorack> hmm... my server says after it sending 0x01 login packet it recives a 0x34 packet,... but that packet is well only suposed to be server->client?
17:19 <+dav1d> probably means you have a bug somewhere
17:19 <+dav1d> parse the protocol incorrectly
17:21 < Foorack> can it be that im reading from the stream incorrectly? that my server reads 0x34 but becuase its encrypted and I read it wrong maybe its a whole other number?
17:21 < Foorack> this is how I create the encrypt/decrypt streams... I guess thats wrong too ;P
17:22 < Foorack> http://pastebin.com/VrrkaaQ5
17:22 <+dav1d> or you just read the previous packet not completly
17:24 < Foorack> Am I doing it right or wrong?
17:25 <+dav1d> no idea
17:25 <+dav1d> Don't know how that works with java
17:25 <+dav1d> you can use a proxy like mc4p to verify your implementation
17:25 < Foorack> ok, have to go now, thanks for help..
--- Day changed sam. août 10 2013
01:47 < Foorack> Hey,
01:48 < Foorack> anyone here thats know anything about AES encrypt stream?
01:49 < Foorack> guess I have to come back later maybe.. cya
01:52 < dx> three minutes...
10:32 < Manyman> Hey, is there support for mark2 on this channel?
10:37 < dx> maybe
10:37 < dx> two of the devs of that project are here
10:37 < dx> but idling furiously
10:39 < dx> Manyman: ...just wondering, are you 'maruchan' on esper?
10:40 < dx> (if not, then this is an odd coincidence :D)
10:48 < Manyman> nope
10:48 < Manyman> Sorry, was afk
10:48 < dx> odd coincidence then!
10:48 < Manyman> heh
10:48 < dx> well i'm glad you're not, that person didn't even know what to do with the instructions in the INSTALL.md file
10:49 < Manyman> lol, not I'm getting an error with the irc plugin
10:49 < Manyman> *not
10:49 < Manyman> *no
10:49 < Manyman> wth, I didn't press t
10:51 < dx> what's weird about this is that i almost completely forgot that mark2 existed, and today i've heard about it twice
10:51 < Manyman> It's pretty damm cool
10:51 < Manyman> if not a little buggy :3
10:52 < dx> anyway, i barely know how it works but if you got a traceback i might be able to figure it out
10:53 < Manyman> lemme grab the log
10:57 < Manyman> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=rprETU4G
11:12 < dx> Manyman: uh... what
11:12 < dx> Manyman: that's an error about a missing object, the error is in line 29
11:13 < dx> Manyman: the corresponding line i can find in the source code is line 79, here https://github.com/mcdevs/mark2/blob/master/mk2/plugins/monitor.py#L79
11:13 < Manyman> oh, I should of said, we've been having trouble with monitor as well
11:13 < dx> it's like you literally deleted the whole Check class
11:13 < Manyman> It wouldn't detect that the server was online
11:13 < Manyman> and was restarting every 10 mins :3
11:13 < dx> wat
11:14 < Manyman> The other admin disabled it
11:14 < dx> ...
11:14 < dx> he deleted the whole class and expected it to work fine after that?
11:14 < Manyman> oh shit
11:15 < Manyman> he deleted it?
11:15 < dx> 06:11 < dx> Manyman: that's an error about a missing object, the error is in line 29
11:15 < dx> 06:11 < dx> Manyman: the corresponding line i can find in the source code is line 79, here https://github.com/mcdevs/mark2/blob/master/mk2/plugins/monitor.py#L79
11:15 < dx> i'm not sure if you see how the line number differs by 50
11:15 < Manyman> cocks, I'll try and reload it
11:16 < dx> this doesn't really make much sense
11:16 < dx> so before assuming stupidity, let me confirm, you did get it from https://github.com/mcdevs/mark2/ right?
11:17 < dx> not a different fork or branch or whatever?
11:17 < Manyman> I didn't install it :3
11:17 < Manyman> and I don't know where he installed it :3
11:17 < Manyman> It's not in /usr/
11:17 < dx> /usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/mk2
11:18 < dx> the error says it
11:18 < Manyman> oh cheers
11:18 < Manyman> hmm, could it being installed incorrectly be a problem?
11:19 < dx> that location is probably not an issue
11:20 < dx> ...the fact that the person who installed it seems to do completely random things that don't make sense, now *that* is an issue.
11:20 < Manyman> heh
11:21 < Manyman> Where is the check class meant to be located?
11:22 < dx> https://github.com/mcdevs/mark2/blob/master/mk2/plugins/monitor.py#L5-L52
11:22 < Manyman> Cheers
11:23 < Manyman> Yep, totally gone
11:23 < dx> could you pastebin that file?
11:23 < Manyman> sure
11:23 < dx> it doesn't really matter but now i'm wondering how he managed to shift it exactly 50 lines up
11:24 < Manyman> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=34v1uKr7
11:25 < dx> ...lol it was more trivial than what i was thinking
11:25 < Manyman> I'll comment it out instead
11:25 < dx> he just removed two lines of whitespace along with the class. okay.
11:25 < dx> commenting it out won't change anything
11:25 < Manyman> yeah, I just want to keep it there for now
11:26 < dx> leaving it commented is still as stupid as removing it
11:26 < Manyman> cause I'll forget :/
11:26 < Manyman> alrighty haha
11:26 < Manyman> Should I just put it back?
11:26 < dx> you should make a new, clean installation, and don't let the other guy touch it
11:27 < dx> and if you have issues with that clean installation, please consult your doct- errr i mean, ask someone who actually knows python
11:28 < Manyman> Thanks so much
11:28 < Manyman> shit bad yo
11:29 < Manyman> hmm
11:29 < dx> i don't really know if he modified anything else, but if he doesn't mind doing this, other stuff might be modified, and there's no way we can offer help over a installation that was changed like that
11:29 < Manyman> I wonder if he installed the requirements
11:30 < Manyman> true
11:31 < dx> (i'd like to say "warranty void if messed with" but the license explicitly states that there wasn't any kind of warranty since the beginning :D)
11:31 < Manyman> heh
11:32 < Manyman> I'd prefer to get him to reinstall it, since it's his box
11:32 < Manyman> and I'm just meant to help maintain the server
11:33 < dx> sure, if you can just tell him to not touch the source code again, and you can trust him not to do it, go ahead
11:33 < Manyman> haha
--- Day changed dim. août 11 2013
01:15 <+Prf_Jakob> Bah stupid lightning.
01:16 <+Prf_Jakob> Taking out me internets
23:01 < ellisvlad> Hey Everyone :D
23:02 < ellisvlad> Having trouble with NBT data
23:05 < ellisvlad> I'm not sure where to start...
23:06 < dexter0> with an existing library I'd recommend
23:06 < ellisvlad> Can you point me in the right direction please, I'm using C++, but will probably be able to rewrite libraries in any other language
23:08 < dexter0> https://github.com/search?q=nbt&ref=cmdform
23:09 < ellisvlad> Thanks, I do understand the NBT format, although, have trouble making my NBT data gzip compressed
23:11 < dexter0> are you working on a map viewer/editor of some sort?
23:12 < ellisvlad> Minecraft Server, C++
23:14 < dexter0> ok, some NBT libs may have compression support.  There are probably other libraries for working directly with the map format.  And for all things Minecraft server, https://github.com/SirCmpwn/Craft.Net is a good reference implementation (though its c#)
--- Day changed lun. août 12 2013
02:12 <+sadimusi> md_5: heard of this dude? http://pastie.org/8195076
02:13 < dx> fixed version: By the way, md_5, I know you're reading this, Bungee looks like it was coded by a 15 year old.
02:16 <+AndrewPH> fixed fixed version: By thi wey, md_5, I knuw yua'ri riedong thos, Bangii luuks loki ot wes cudid by e 15 yier uld.
02:18 < dexter0> where was that posted?
02:19 < Drainedsoul> the issue with C++ NBT libs I've seen is that they're too object oriented
02:20 <+sadimusi> http://twitter.com/markhed1
02:22 <+sadimusi> the guy used up all the inodes on my server because of PHP's stupid disk based session storage
02:22 < dx> >This morning, a SWAT team broke down my front door and confiscated all of my equipment
02:22 < dx> confirmed for a fucking joke
02:22 < dx> joke of a person, i mean
02:22 < Drainedsoul> the solution: Don't use PHP sessions
02:23 <+sadimusi> the band-aid solution: ramdisk for session storage
02:23 < dx> that's the "let's rely on the kernel OOM killer" solution
02:25 <+sadimusi> it should have a fixed size, but I should probably check that sometime
02:25 < dx> lol
02:25 < dx> yeah they usually do, but i think it defaults to half the physical ram or something
02:26 <+sadimusi> I set it to 300mb, that should be enough
02:26 < dx> okay, band-aid approved then
02:26 <+sadimusi> Filesystem      Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
02:26 <+sadimusi> tmpfs           300M   90M  211M  30% /var/lib/php5
02:26 <+sadimusi> looks fine
02:27 < dx> "Do NOT unset the whole $_SESSION with unset($_SESSION) as this will disable the registering of session variables through the $_SESSION superglobal"
02:27 < dx> thanks php docs
02:27 <+sadimusi> the fun part of cleaning up after the attack was that `rm /var/lib/php5/*` did exactly nothing
02:28 < dx> it kept the fds open after unlinking?
02:29 < dx> nah actually that should hit ulimit first
02:29 <+sadimusi> I have no idea what it did, no command that had something to do with this directory ever completed
02:29 <+sadimusi> there were 900k files in there...
02:30 < dx> how many php open processes?
02:30 <+sadimusi> none, I shut down everything
02:30 < dx> fun
02:31 <+sadimusi> and php's garbage collector didn't work either of course
02:31 <+sadimusi> which, as a side note, doesn't work at all by default on some ubuntu versions
02:32 <+sadimusi> or at least uses excessive amounts of cpu power
02:33 < Drainedsoul> I'm pretty sure it's a known fact that PHP's garbage collector is garbage, and that it mostly relies on the fact that php is supposed to be short-lived
02:33 < Drainedsoul> could be wrong
02:34 <+sadimusi> I'm talking about the session garbage collector
02:34 <+sadimusi> it's a simple cronjob
02:34 <+sadimusi> http://d.pr/n/VH1N
02:34 < Drainedsoul> ah yeah
02:34 < Drainedsoul> this just sounds like don't use PHP sessions to me
02:35 < dx> most people who use php do it because they don't have a choice
02:35 <+sadimusi> it was even better a few versions ago, you could define the probability at which the garbage collector would engage whenever a php script is run
02:35 < Drainedsoul> wut
02:35 < dx> (or that's what i'd like to believe)
02:35 < Drainedsoul> as long as you have a database you can implement your own session
02:35 <+sadimusi> for me this is definitely the case
02:35 < dx> in this case i'm assuming sadimusi didn't write the php scripts
02:36 <+sadimusi> I do have the choice of rewriting everything, but that's definitely not happening
02:36 < Drainedsoul> alternately you could just refactor it instead of rewriting it, and redirect assignments to/reads from $_SESSION to a database-/cookie-based provider
02:37 <+sadimusi> there are some modules to store the session data with memcache, I might look into that sometime
02:37 < dx> i don't think php allows overloading array reads/writes :D
02:37 < Drainedsoul> it absolutely does
02:37 < Drainedsoul> implements arrayaccess
02:37 < dx> okay
08:14 <+md_5> dx hm?
08:14 <+md_5> thats lilypad he was talking about
08:14 <+md_5> sadimusi yeah it blew up hilariously in his face
08:15 < dx> md_5: you didn't see what i did there :(
--- Day changed jeu. août 15 2013
07:42 < TkTech> Anyone want a Mirrors Edge key for Steam? Have one extra.
08:42 < Cr0s> hi
08:42 < Cr0s> how to disable MC's client and server protocol encryption?
08:42 < Cr0s> I writing a proxy server and get stuck in encryption
08:43 < Cr0s> wot to play MITM attack
08:43 < Cr0s> won't*
17:06 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: poke?
17:08 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: yes
17:49 < SimSonic> Hello all, can anybody here help with file approvement on dev.bukkit? two days waiting. Uploaded 5 versions =\
18:09 <+dav1d> SimSonic: hi, no, I don't think so, better join esper.net#bukkit
18:10 < SimSonic> Thanks )
19:52 < dx> huh, for some reason i failed to join this channel three days ago and didn't realize i wasn't in here
19:54 < TkTech> dx: Was that when it was +irm?
19:55 < dx> now my logs have a huge hole in them :(. if anyone is bored enough to provide me logs since my pingout, i'd appreciate it (i sure wish the public logs the topic mentions were actually public)
19:55 < dx> TkTech: probably just +r
19:57 < dx> i have extremely cheap autoidentify scripts ("send identify, wait two seconds, join channels") that sometimes fail if there's lag
20:00 <+clonejo> Anyone visiting Gamescom?
20:01 <+clonejo> ^ dav1d, pdelvo
20:02 <+dav1d> clonejo: no
20:02 <+dav1d> clonejo: where is it?
20:02 <+clonejo> Cologne
20:02 <+dav1d> oh köln
20:02 <+dav1d> na
20:03 <+clonejo> It's only one hour away from me, so I couldn't miss the opportunity
20:05 <+dav1d> if I you told me that ~2 month ago, I would probably be there  :D
20:05 <+dav1d> visiting relatives in Düsseldorf/Köln + gamescom :P
23:22 <+md_5> waits of 5 days arent uncommon on bukkitdev lol
--- Day changed ven. août 16 2013
03:38 < shoghicp> Just pushed PocketBurger (Burger-alike tool for MCPE)
03:38 < shoghicp> https://github.com/shoghicp/PocketBurger
03:38 < shoghicp> It is compatible with Hamburglar and BurgerVitrine
03:38 < shoghicp> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3030630/0.7.3.html
03:39 < shoghicp> It is pretty basic
03:39 < shoghicp> but works
08:58 <+md_5> whoa
08:58 <+md_5> shoghicp nice
08:58 <+md_5> really nice
08:59 <+md_5> how do you get the asm dump?
10:25 < TobiX> clonejo: I visited in recent years, but since it overlaps with German summer holidays for a few years, it has become too full for my taste...
10:36 <+pdelvo> @clonejo not this jear :(
11:19 <+clonejo> okay, np
11:57 < shoghicp> md_5: I use the IDA asm output
11:58 < shoghicp> I didn't tested it with other things
12:01 < shoghicp> Adding more things right now ;)
14:22 < shoghicp> Added additional methods + biomes to PocketBurger :D
15:19 <+sadimusi> shoghicp: very nice
15:21 < shoghicp> I'm adding blocks now
16:08 < shoghicp> Burger is the tool used to compare releases, right?
16:08 < shoghicp> Hamburglar only shows it
16:08 < shoghicp> right?
16:58 <+ammar2> shoghicp: burger gets info for one version, hamburgler compares different versions. BurgerVitrine generates fancy html pages
17:00 < shoghicp> I mean
17:00 < shoghicp> python Burger/munch.py -c minecraft.1.5.jar minecraft.1.6.jar
17:00 < shoghicp> Burger gets the info for each one
17:00 < shoghicp> right?
17:07 < shoghicp> Ok, right now it has packets + instructions, version, blocks, biomes, sounds
17:46 < shoghicp> MCPE 0.6.1 <=> 0.7.3 comparison: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3030630/0.6.1_0.7.3.html
17:47 < shoghicp> there are some bugs with block detection
--- Day changed sam. août 17 2013
16:55 < ashka> hello there, I wanted to know if the packet that used to set the server texture pack was removed silently in 1.6, I can't find it
16:59 < zml> ashka: It's always been using Packet250, so you wouldn't see a separate packet class. I'm not sure how resource packs may have changed that though
16:59 < ashka> well, with bukkit 1.6 at least, it's sending the packet, but the vanilla client isn't reacting
16:59 < ashka> that's maybe just a bug, still have got to try with the vanilla server
16:59 < shoghicp> ashka: MC|Tpack
17:00 < shoghicp> http://wiki.vg/Plugin_channel
17:05 < ashka> still seems buggy, the client won't prompt me for a pack
17:15 < ashka> oh ok, just read it was disabled temporarily
21:29 <+Prf_Jakob> good thing I didn't press enter when I entered my password
21:30 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: Q?
21:30 <+Prf_Jakob> or I would have entered it here...
21:30 <+AndrewPH> is that bad?
21:31 <+Prf_Jakob> yes
21:31 <+Prf_Jakob> basically focus error..
--- Day changed dim. août 18 2013
01:16 < shoghicp> Is there any way in BurgerVitrine to set the name of a packet? (via JSON)
01:16 < shoghicp> I'm adding a comment to each packet with the name
01:16 < shoghicp> I tried looking into the code
01:16 < shoghicp> nothing
01:17 < shoghicp> sadimusi: ping ^
01:29 < shoghicp> sadimusi: Pull request, https://github.com/sadimusi/BurgerVitrine/pull/3
01:31 < shoghicp> With the patch: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3030630/0.7.3.html#packets
01:31 < dx> nice!
01:32 < dx> i like the tiny patch
01:33 < shoghicp> The feature was there ;)
08:28 <+SpaceManiac> my Linux machine has finally bitten the dust
08:29 <+AndrewPH> yay
09:04 <+md_5> thats ad
09:04 <+md_5> thats sad
23:26 < shoghicp> sadimusi: thanks!
23:47 < fragmer> TkTech, my wiki.vg login no longer works
23:47 < fragmer> > There is no user by the name "F".
23:48 < fragmer> (clearly there is though: http://wiki.vg/Special:Contributions/F )
23:48 < dexter0> fragmer: the wiki moved to a new host
23:48 < dexter0> a while ago
23:48 < dexter0> create a new account w/ the same name
23:48 < fragmer> That's odd.
23:49 < fragmer> Now my contribution list has been blanked
23:49 < fragmer> What kind of a host move is this...
23:50 < dexter0> TK is now hosting the wiki, instead of kevin
23:50 < dx> he used a mediawiki xml export that keeps the page history
23:50 < dx> but no user accounts or anything
23:50 < dx> because apparently it wasn't possible to contact kev to do the host move
--- Day changed lun. août 19 2013
00:02 < fragmer> I see
00:04 <+dav1d> the light
13:58 <+clonejo> is coming
13:59 <+pdelvo> I dont know if I want to know that :o
14:00 <+clonejo> pdelvo: ouch, I actually wanted to append to what david said
14:00 <+pdelvo> :D
14:00 <+clonejo> otherwise I would have used /me
14:01 <+dav1d> that was a long time ago :P
14:02 <+clonejo> so?
14:02 <+clonejo> IRC can fluently go from realtime to long delays.
14:06 < SinZ> Kinda not really
14:42 <+clonejo> Don't you have some backlog?
14:45 < SinZ> I know the previous messages, except it was too long of a gap
20:33 < MaximoMinial> Hi, I have a question related to the minecraft protocol. When you send a packet, it has various fields, and some fields have a variable length. How are you able to know how long will a string be for e.g. ? 
20:35 < shoghicp> it is prefixed by a short
20:35 < shoghicp> that is the length
20:36 < shoghicp> check the Data types page
20:36 < shoghicp> http://wiki.vg/Data_Types
20:36 < MaximoMinial> thanks !
20:37 <+clonejo> The data types pake should be more obvious
20:37 <+clonejo> s/pake/page/
20:38 < Morrolan> Isn't it linked from the top of the protocol page?
20:38 <+clonejo> it's linked from the very bottom
20:38 < MaximoMinial> Yeah I didn't checked bottom
20:38 < Morrolan> Ah, the bottom it is.
20:38 < MaximoMinial> Quite normal to see links there in a wiki
20:39 <+clonejo> most wiki pages aren't that long
20:40 <+clonejo> that string length prefix question comes up every few weeks
20:40 <+clonejo> not that it bothers me much, actually
20:40 <+clonejo> maybe we should keep the links how they are to get the people to irc :D
20:41 < MaximoMinial> A quick recap at the top of the Protocol page or a direct link would help, but yay irc is nice though
20:41 < shoghicp> Those links were at the top of the page before
20:41 < shoghicp> oh
20:41 < shoghicp> no
20:41 < shoghicp> they weren't links
21:20 <+dav1d> iirc it was a table
23:44 < dx> http://wiki.vg/index.php?title=Protocol&diff=4243&oldid=4228
--- Day changed mar. août 20 2013
03:41 < TkTech> It was just a stub on the top of the page previously.
03:41 < TkTech> That page is getting to the point where it needs a custom template.
03:41 < shoghicp> yep
03:48 < dx> damn +r
03:49 < shoghicp> and another release of PocketMine-MP
03:49 < dx> damn
09:11 < MaximoMinial> Hi, I'm messing around in java to try to log in my private server, but after sending an 0x02 packet with all the fields correctly set (I generate exactly the same hex sequence that i captured from sniffed packets from the regular clients) I'm going to paste you the code
09:11 < MaximoMinial> I forgot the mention the interesting part, my server does not respond and the program exit after 30s which I believe is the default timeout
09:12 < MaximoMinial> http://pastebin.com/FfkcGqmD
09:13 < MaximoMinial> The program is stuck at the in.read() instruction, waiting for something, then returning -1, and exiting
09:14 < MaximoMinial> *return -1 and exits
09:15 < MaximoMinial> The first time I tried, the packet didn't contain all the field required and I got a 0xFF from the server (which is normal), and from that point, it was impossible to get a server response on new connection
09:17 < MaximoMinial> Even after completing all the fields and getting the same hex sequence has sniffed
09:24 < MaximoMinial> I'm using 1.5.2 btw
12:19 <+md_5> anyone got C/C++ examples of openssl+minecraft
12:19 < barneygale> MaximoMinial: did you figure it out?
12:22 < dx> md_5: http://ix.io/7qB
12:26 < MaximoMinial> Actually, the server responds after 30s with the double fuck packet (0xFF ;)) and closes the connection. It seems that it didn't get my 0x02 packet at all
12:27 < MaximoMinial> The 0xFF says that I "Took too long to log in", as written in my server log
12:28 < MaximoMinial> I'll paste the actual version of my code
12:38 < MaximoMinial> The hex sequence generated for the 0x02 is actually different from what I sniffed, I look further in that direction, I think that's where the problem lies
12:41 < MaximoMinial> Ok i got it, the number I was putting in front of strings was the number of bytes used by the string and not the number of code points, which is in this case the number of bytes divided by 2
12:48 < barneygale> aye, that's what I was going to tell you then I accidentally went AFK
12:48 < barneygale> sorry :P
12:49 < MaximoMinial> np barneygale 
13:57 < Drainedsoul> md_5: I have pretty extensive examples if you still need
13:58 < Drainedsoul> all C++11
15:46 < MaximoMinial> Is it possible that my server Id has a length of 1 ?
15:46 < MaximoMinial> Is it because it's in offline mode ?
15:47 < MaximoMinial> (no authentication)
15:47 <+sadimusi> it might just be "-" in offline mode
15:47 < MaximoMinial> ok thanks
15:47 <+sadimusi> at least that's what it used to be before encryption was added
15:48 < shoghicp> sadimusi: One question, is there Tile Entity support in Burger / BurgerVitrine?
15:49 <+sadimusi> no, but adding a new topping to Hamburglar / BurgerVitrine is pretty easy
15:49 < MaximoMinial> It is still used in 1.5.2, my server ID hex code is "00 2D", which is the number "45", which is the character "-"
15:50 < shoghicp> Ok, keep an eye for pull requests ;)
15:52 < Drainedsoul> looking over the code dx provided, my examples are also a bit more object oriented/well abstracted
--- Day changed mer. août 21 2013
07:57 <+md_5> Drainedsoul , dx
07:57 < dx> hi
07:57 <+md_5> I'm planning on implementing bungeecord encryption with openssl+jni
07:58 < dx> huh why
07:58 <+md_5> because the java one is slow as f***
07:58 <+md_5> and is bottlenecking
07:58 < dx> pbunny would be proud of you
07:58 <+md_5> talking 10-20% of bungee cpu usage
07:58 <+md_5> problem being I have 0 JNI experience
07:58 <+md_5> and 0.01 C experience
07:58 < dx> heh
07:59 < dx> 0 JNI experience, 0.5 C experience here
07:59 <+md_5> I just need to do the bulk cipher part
08:00 <+md_5> ie 19:31 <+Fador> dx: https://github.com/fador/mineserver/blob/master/include/user.h#L109 <- cipher init
08:00 <+md_5> 19:32 <+Fador> dx: https://github.com/fador/mineserver/blob/master/src/sockets.cpp#L94 <- encryption and #L167 decryption
08:00 <+md_5> the rest I can do in java
08:00 <+md_5> but the stream I want in C
08:00 < dx> are you sure this will improve it significantly, though?
08:00 <+md_5> dx with aes-ni
08:00 <+md_5> hell yeah
08:01 <+md_5> native code + cpu specific instructions
08:01 <+md_5> compared to java
08:01 < dx> oh right
08:01 <+md_5> I think so
08:02 < dx> (btw i heard people say that JITs can be faster because of the ability to optimize with more cpu specific code, but in practice i doubt that applies often)
08:02 <+md_5> look at the java aes code :p
08:02 < dx> no thanks
08:03 <+AndrewPH> md_5: let me guess, "welcome to die"
08:03 < dx> md_5: do JNI calls have significant overhead?
08:03 < dx> or is it nearly none?
08:03 <+md_5> not much at all
08:03 <+md_5> http://grepcode.com/file/repository.grepcode.com/java/root/jdk/openjdk/6-b14/com/sun/crypto/provider/AESCrypt.java#AESCrypt
08:04 <+md_5> also my current engine involves memcpy
08:04 <+md_5> direct buffer -> array -> direct buffer
08:04 <+md_5> whereas with jni I can do direct -> direct
08:05 <+md_5> anyway if someone here knows JNI and please poke me up, would love your help
08:05 < dx> THAT PINGOUT WAS VERY SUSPICIOUSLY TIMED
08:05 <+md_5> understood that code yet dx?
08:05 <+md_5> its very basic...
08:07 < dx> yeah it seems to be
08:08 < dx> but maybe the JIT can do magic!
08:51 < Drainedsoul> you want it in C or C++?
08:52 <+md_5> Drainedsoul not sure if JNI supports c++
08:52 <+md_5> if it does then I would prefer that
08:54 < Drainedsoul> I wouldn't imagine JNI supports C++ because C++ doesn't have a consistent ABI
08:55 <+md_5> I belive it can
08:56 <+md_5> just implement the headers in C or something
08:56 <+md_5> http://thebreakfastpost.com/2012/01/26/wrapping-a-c-library-with-jni-part-2/
09:01 < Drainedsoul> oh cool
09:01 < Drainedsoul> https://github.com/RobertLeahy/MCPP/blob/master/src/aes_128_cfb_8.cpp here's a C++ wrapper for OpenSSL AES128CFB8
09:01 < Drainedsoul> https://github.com/RobertLeahy/MCPP/blob/master/src/rsa_key.cpp and here's a C++ wrapper for RSA key generation/manipulation
09:01 < dx> why do you have to wrap it..
09:01 < dx> it can be just written in C and it's less pain for everyone
09:01 < Drainedsoul> ?
09:01 < dx> we're not talking about developing a big server that you might need stuff like templates or object orientation
09:02 < dx> we're talking about calling a few openssl functions. there's no good reason to use c++
09:02 < Drainedsoul> md_5 was the one who said he preferred C++, and I have a lot of Minecraft-related C++11 code
09:02 <+md_5> meh
09:02 <+md_5> I dont care
09:02 < dx> well, i'm questioning that too!
09:02 < Drainedsoul> and the project those two CPP files are from is a server
09:02 < dx> yes
09:02 < Drainedsoul> I guess I don't understand what you're getting at o.0
09:03 <+md_5> be back soon
09:38 <+md_5> public native void init(byte[] cipherKey, boolean forEncryption);
09:38 <+md_5> public native int cipher(long inMemoryAddress, long length, long outMemoryAddress); // Return number of bytes ciphered
09:39 <+md_5> Drainedsoul thats basically what i need
09:39 <+md_5> cipherKey I guess could be converted to a pointer containing the raw key
09:39 <+md_5> public native void init(long cipherKey, int keyLength, boolean forEncryption);
09:39 <+md_5> public native int cipher(long inMemoryAddress, int inLength, long outMemoryAddress); // Return number of bytes ciphered
09:40 <+md_5> * public native void init(long cipherKeyAddress, int keyLength, boolean forEncryption);
09:42 <+md_5> 	// CFB8 always outputs the
09:42 <+md_5> / same number of bytes as it
09:42 <+md_5> / takes as input
09:42 <+md_5> oh heh
09:42 <+md_5> never knew that
09:43 <+md_5> ----
09:43 <+md_5> public native void init(long keyAddress, int keyLength, boolean forEncryption);
09:43 <+md_5> public native void cipher(long inAddress, int inLength, long outAddress);
09:46 <+AndrewPH> beautiful
10:40 < SimSonic> Hello all. What Jenkins plugin allows to mark some builds as Recommended? With gold star at right. Promoted Builds or another one?
12:31 < barneygale> Dinnerbone: sorry to bother. Could someone be assigned to this? https://mojang.atlassian.net/browse/MC-10984
12:32 < barneygale> Dan Frisk was mistakenly assigned when it was first filed and removed himself recently
15:13 < dav1d> poor pdelvo
--- Day changed jeu. août 22 2013
11:11 < dav1d> Brottweiler: ping
13:56 < tehme> yo sup boyz!
13:56 < tehme> im back!
13:56 < dav1d> yay he is back!
13:59 < tehme> what did i miss here?
14:01 < tehme> dat wiki
14:01 < tehme> dwarfs != dvarves
14:01 < tehme> :(
14:02 < tehme> dwarves*
14:05 < tehme> oh yeah
14:05 < tehme> fixing wiki is fun
15:34 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=19306834 <-- thats one hell of a party.
15:35 < TkTech> Ah ha ha, the strippers.
15:36 <+Prf_Jakob> Yupp a cool billion in strippers
15:37 < Brottweiler> pong
15:37 < Brottweiler> dav1d: plong
15:47 < dav1d> Brottweiler: znc working again?
15:47 < Brottweiler> yes!
15:48 < dav1d> Brottweiler: got my broadcast?^^
15:48 < Brottweiler> i dont think so?
15:49 < dav1d> he ok
15:49 < dav1d> Brottweiler: now?
15:49 < Brottweiler> yes
22:21 < tehme> damn
22:21 < tehme> why did you restrict free enter to channel?
22:22 <+sadimusi> because some bots flooded the channel with bad jokes
22:23 < tehme> heh
22:23 < tehme> i have a little question about wiki
22:23 <+sadimusi> Prf_Jakob: is the +r really meant to be permanent?
22:23 <+sadimusi> ask away
22:23 < tehme> some fields in protocol page are bold. does it mean anything?
22:25 < tehme> http://wiki.vg/Protocol#0x08example
22:25 < tehme> http://wiki.vg/Protocol#0x08 example
22:25 < dav1d> tehme: I think these values changed in the last protocol version
22:25 < dav1d> it used to be something else
22:26 < tehme> ok, thank you
22:27 < dav1d> tehme: yep, it was of type "short" in 1.5.2
22:32 < tehme> does anyone here have experience with Lua?
22:34 <+Prf_Jakob> sadimusi: done
22:34 < dav1d> Prf_Jakob: wb :P
22:34 < dav1d> ahhhh
22:34 < dav1d> pdelvo: wb
22:51 <+ammar2> dav1d: urf, I bolded them in the pre-release page so it was clearer what changed.
23:57 < tehme> fock yeah! i made my new code generator!
23:57 < Drainedsoul> your whut
23:57 < Drainedsoul> fuck
23:57 < Drainedsoul> okay it's not censored
23:57 < Drainedsoul> was wondering why you said "fock" instead
23:57 < tehme> code generator. wiki source -> c++ classes
23:58 < tehme> because i like to say FOCK
23:58 < dav1d> FORK
23:58 < tehme> I WANT TO FORK YOU
--- Day changed ven. août 23 2013
00:01 < tehme> ping
00:12 < tehme> geberated code is little ugly, but is doesnt matter, i think
00:12 < tehme> generated*
00:12 < tehme> it*
00:12 < tehme> omg
00:13 <+sadimusi> how do you generate stuff like 0x1d?
00:13 <+sadimusi> *0xd1
00:13 <+sadimusi> well, iirc 0x1d isn't trivial either
00:14 < tehme> d1 is "special" in my terms, so i must make it manually
00:15 < tehme> 1d is special too for now, but soon i will teach generator to recognize arrays
00:17 < tehme> we can develop some wiki structure to describe special packets, but manual creation is much easier, i think
00:18 <+sadimusi> I'm hoping to skip the wiki and use burger output directly
00:18 <+sadimusi> at least for simple arrays it might be possible
00:19 < tehme> what about obfuscation?
00:20 <+sadimusi> good point
00:21 <+sadimusi> it could just use the field names from the last version and set the rest to "unknown"
00:21 <+sadimusi> so all you have to do is fill in the new ones before the next version is released
00:23 < tehme> but in burger field names are not set al all
00:23 < tehme> at all*
00:23 < tehme> a b c everywhere
00:23 < tehme> or am i blind?
00:24 < tehme> how to see packets of version but not comparation?
00:24 < dav1d> set one to None
00:25 < tehme> anyway a b c
00:25 <+sadimusi> you're right, but if your generator can use your protocol definitions that won't matter
00:26 <+sadimusi> just rebuild the new packets, copy over the rest and then try to match the fields of the modified ones
02:25 < dx> woo i got my identify script right this time
08:56 < Not-003> [fCraft] fragmer * r2161 2 files : Initial implementation of BitMap3D, to be used for /Fill3D
08:56 <+fragmer> oh hey Notifico's back.
08:57 <+fragmer> I just made a terrible data structure
08:57 <+fragmer> https://gist.github.com/fragmer/6316217#file-bitmap3d-cs-L168
09:08 < SinZ> I like the name of your goto
10:17 < dav1d> fragmer: do { } while(bitIndex > 31)
10:17 < dav1d> should work?
10:17 <+fragmer> Probably. I am rewriting the whole thing though, to get rid of some branching and division/modulo
10:18 <+fragmer> Won't need a goto then
11:51 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2162 2 files : Fixed and optimized BitMap3D enumerator.
11:52 <+fragmer> Much cleaner and ~3.5x faster. https://gist.github.com/fragmer/6317220
12:29 < SinZ> fragmer: what is this for?
12:33 <+fragmer> SinZ, 3D flood fill in Minecraft
12:33 < SinZ> classic or modern? <3
12:33 <+fragmer> Classic of course
12:33 <+fragmer> Just tested it up to 100M blocks, works like a charm
12:38 < tehme> sup
14:55 < Foorack> Hey. anyone that can help me with sending the chunk too the client? Should I use 0x33 OR 0x38 and how would i use them? I dont know what the array should contain..
14:56 < Drainedsoul> http://wiki.vg/SMP_Map_Format
14:59 < Foorack> so i should send 0x38 when the players join and 0x33 when the player moves into a new area?
15:05 < Drainedsoul> that's what the vanilla server does afaik
15:08 < Yoshi2> Foorack: you can try sending lots of 0x33s if you have issues with sending 0x38, it should work as well
15:08 < Drainedsoul> sending lots of 0x33s seems like a less tightly-coupled method to me
17:17 < tehme> anyone here?
17:18 < tehme> i am now thinking about how can my code generator know what field is length of array
17:18 < tehme> usually it is previous field
17:18 < tehme> but there are exclusions
17:51 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+6/-6/±3] http://git.io/feHGcA
17:51 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 6e2e4ae - updated glad
17:59 < tehme> fuuuuuuuck
18:00 < tehme> i fixed arrays recognition
18:00 < tehme> and now code generator thinks 0xD1 is a regular packet
18:01 < dav1d> add a blacklist
18:02 < tehme> yep, i thought about this
18:23 < Drainedsoul> what's this about 0xD1?
18:38 < tehme> http://wiki.vg/Protocol#Teams_.280xD1.29
18:39 < tehme> variable fields
19:09 < Drainedsoul> variable fields are so annoying, not just because they're a pain in the ass, but because they're just a hallmark of poor design
20:01 < tehme> this is mojang
20:10 < Drainedsoul> I know, I wasn't implying that Mojang doesn't have a history of awful design choices, was just pointing out that variable fields are a symptom of that disease.
23:45 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: Yes.
23:46 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: http://evevalkyrie.com/
23:47 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: looks cool
23:47 <+Prf_Jakob> can't wait to try it out
--- Day changed sam. août 24 2013
01:38 < TkTech> WebKit's (new) interface almost seems sane, and easy.
01:38 < TkTech> Then the ever so subtle bugs start creeping in.
01:47 <+Prf_Jakob> heh
01:48 <+Prf_Jakob> is it to integrate into a app like awesomium?
01:56 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2163 30 files : Moved all map generation code into a separate namespace (fCraft.MapGeneration).
02:00 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2164 11 files : Added missing copyright notices/acknowledgments to MapGeneration source files.
02:01 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: No, we use it for crawling.
02:03 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: ah okay
03:01 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2165 6 files : Added /fill3d command! Fixed an offset error in BitMap3D's enumerator.
10:34 < conur> anyone not AFK right now that can help me figure something out real quick?
10:36 < Yoshi2> conur: what do you need?
10:37 < conur> Im having the weirdest experience.  I just started working on a server and I was testing it with the Ping command in 1.6.2.  For some reason, its first byte is perceived as -2, instead of 0xFE.
10:37 < conur> Oddly enough, if I try to login to the server itself, it sends the handshake 0x02 just fine.
10:39 < conur> Or is this normal?  I honestly havent ever dealt with hexa so Im not sure if thats supposed to happen. 
10:39 < Yoshi2> ah, you're most likely interpreting the 0xFE as a signed byte, and not a unsigned byte
10:39 < conur> I just realized I was probably doing something like that.  Thank you!
10:39 < conur> I know Java handles all that weirdly..
10:39 < conur> dont you have to do like & 0xFF at the end of it or something
10:40 < conur> Answered my own question!  Thanks for reminding me about that
10:40 < Yoshi2> you're welcome
10:40 < Yoshi2> yeah, from what I've heard, java doesn't support unsigned bytes internally
10:41 < conur> yeah unlike C++ and the like
14:03 < circ-user-no1VE> hello?
14:03 <+sadimusi> o/
14:04 < circ-user-no1VE> im making a networked game, and i was looking at the minecraft protocol, but i cant figure out whether to use TCP or UDP
14:04 < Calinou> MC uses TCP
14:04 < Calinou> I suggest using UDP, lol
14:04 < circ-user-no1VE> hmm
14:05 < circ-user-no1VE> i read that for real time games, you usually use udp
14:05 < circ-user-no1VE> but udp packets can be lost
14:05 < circ-user-no1VE> so, if a client connects to the server, entire parts of the login system can be lost
14:05 < circ-user-no1VE> and the client blocks up
14:05 <+sadimusi> either you use two streams or you have to build your own ack mechanic for a few selected packets
14:05 <+sadimusi> or you just use tcp of course
14:06 < circ-user-no1VE> i also thought of something like that, where players movement and entity data(enemy, anything that is real-time) via UDP, and downloading maps/data/inventories/spawning via tcp
14:07 < circ-user-no1VE> also, i read that when using udp, sometimes multiple packets basicly...are added together or somethign
14:07 < circ-user-no1VE> like, i send 2 packets, 1 arives, containing data of both... is this true?
14:07 < Yoshi2> not added together, but I've heard that packets can arrive twice
14:08 < MooshBeef> ow thats not that much of a problem then
14:08 < MooshBeef> thanks for the help :D
14:08 < MooshBeef> --leaving--
14:48 < tehme> yo sup
14:48 < tehme> imma angry as fuck
14:48 < tehme> i am starting to hate free software
14:48 < tehme> it always tries to install lots of shit like SOCIAL BROWSER ORBITUM to my pc
14:50 < tehme> and what i "like" most of all is that express-install option is an option for this fucking orbitum only
14:50 < tehme> fucking froadsters
14:52 < iBotPeaches> yep
14:53 < Drainedsoul> I get angry when I get other peoples' work for free as well
14:53 < Drainedsoul> ...wait
14:54 <+clonejo> I like how Oracle takes care of bringing the awesome Ask search to the people with every Java update
14:54 < tehme> i would not be angry if it just proposed this fucking chromium with changed icon and facebook in tabs
14:54 < tehme> but it hides it
14:55 <+clonejo> tehme: There are other Chromium forks, aren't there?
14:55 < tehme> i dint need any
14:55 < tehme> dont
14:56 < dav1d> chromium on windows? o.O
14:56 < tehme> i just want to install apps without constant waiting for them to cheat me and install  shit
14:57 < Drainedsoul> I find the apps that you pay for don't do that, since they don't have to game people to make money without charging their customers
14:57 < tehme> i dont know what is orbitum, but it definitely is a trash if it installs this way
14:57 < tehme> wait
14:57 < tehme> screenshot
14:59 < tehme> http://imgur.com/sipa0Ln
14:59 < tehme> first is express, second is advanced
14:59 < tehme> express is "recommended"
15:00 < tehme> noobs will have nice new browser
15:00 < tehme> isn't it too much?
15:00 <+clonejo> Where did you download that installer?
15:00 < tehme> offucial site
15:00 < tehme> official*
15:00 <+clonejo> url?
15:01 <+clonejo> http://www.cheatengine.org/downloads.php ?
15:01 < tehme> yes
15:01 <+clonejo> okay
15:02 < tehme> mb it gives installers with different shitload depending on ip
15:03 < tehme> looks like this orbitum is russian
15:03 < Yoshi2> it's really sad to see that most of the time the "advanced" option is just for changing the install location of the program and preventing adware from being installed
15:03 < tehme> NEW GENERATION BROWSER WITH BUILT-IN VK>COM CHAT!!!!
15:03 < tehme> PROGRESS!!!
15:04 < tehme> saddest thing about this is noobs really trust these words
15:05 < tehme> well ok, cheat engine developers want to eat too
15:06 < tehme> but i hope i will never do this if i make something good and free
15:12 < dav1d> windows, what do you expect
15:24 < tehme> i have linux too
15:24 < tehme> but NOGAMES
15:26 < dav1d> *"no dumb AAA games"
15:26 < dav1d> ftfy
15:28 < Yoshi2> on linux there are so many cool indie games
15:30 < tehme> problem is i want my league of legends
15:31 < tehme> i really like linux more than windows, but it does not have some things i need
15:31 < tehme> mah old ubuntu without unity
15:32 < tehme> do you like ubuntu?
15:35 < dav1d> no
15:38 < tehme> why?
15:40 < Drainedsoul> all linuxes are just a shell through SSH
15:40 < Drainedsoul> let's be real
15:40 < dav1d> tehme: personal opinion
15:41 < dav1d> I rather have everything in my own hands, also rolling release ftw
15:41 < Drainedsoul> personal opinions can still have a reason attached to them
15:41 < Drainedsoul> ah there we go
15:46 < Drainedsoul> templates are definitely my favourite part of C++
15:46 < tehme> yep, rolling release
15:46 < tehme> things that break in ubuntu every half a year, can break tororrow in your arch
15:46 < tehme> templates are great:)
15:47 < Drainedsoul> does anyone know off-hand what algorithm vanilla MC uses to turn seed strings into integers?
15:48 < tehme> look at minecraft wiki
15:49 < Drainedsoul> nothin'
15:49 < tehme> The Java String.hashCode() function is used to generate a number seed if a word/phrase is used.
15:49 < tehme> http://docs.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/lang/String.html#hashCode%28%29
15:50 < Drainedsoul> jesus christ it uses exponents wtf
15:50 < Drainedsoul> do not want
15:50 < tehme> kekekek
15:50 < Drainedsoul> I'll stick with djb2.
16:02 < dav1d> tehme: only that it never broke for me
16:22 <+clonejo> Most of the time, I break my Arch by myself
16:41 < tehme> hey
16:42 < tehme> i want to fix wiki
16:42 < dav1d> tehme: where is the problem?
16:42 < tehme> replace "array of xxx" with "xxx array"
16:42 < tehme> is it ok?
16:42 < tehme> problem is someone may not want this:)
16:42 < dav1d> ok?
16:43 < tehme> ok
16:43 < tehme> i will do this
16:43 < Yoshi2> tehme: can you give some particular examples?
16:43 < tehme> http://wiki.vg/Protocol#0x1D
16:44 < Yoshi2> hm, alright
16:45 < tehme> oh damn
16:46 < tehme> fuk it
16:46 < tehme> this fix can kill sence of phrases
21:16 < edk> does simpson still lurk here?
23:45 < MestreLion> any kind soul can help me with directory layout for a mod git repository?
23:45 < MestreLion> I'm not sure where the root should be, or what files to include
23:46 < dx> try #mcp-modding or #minecraftforge or #bukkitdev
23:47 < dx> all in esper
23:50 < MestreLion> thanks dx
--- Day changed dim. août 25 2013
00:23 < AnotherOne|2> qweqwe
00:24 < AnotherOne|2> lol
00:33 < tehme> hey people
00:33 < tehme> i need a help with one algorithm
00:34 < tehme> for example, i am printing some list {a = "123", b = "456", etc = "etc"}
00:34 < tehme> if i do it in a loop, how to prevent comma to be printed after last element?
00:35 < tehme> just with if, or there is any better solutions?
00:35 < tehme> are*
00:35 < dav1d> yes, use a join function
00:37 < tehme> thank you
00:37 < tehme> in lua there is table.concat
00:37 < tehme> interesting, how does it work
00:42 <+md_5> well
00:42 <+md_5> in java I have a .toCSV function
00:42 <+md_5> that basically
00:42 <+md_5> StringBuilder out = new StringBuilder();
00:42 <+md_5> for (String s : list ) out.append(s).append(", ");
00:42 <+md_5> return s.substring(0,s.length()-2)
00:43 <+md_5> * return out.substring(0,out.length()-2)
00:44 < tehme> yep
00:44 < tehme> ihave this too
00:45 < tehme> i dont know what is cheaper
00:45 < tehme> if or sub
00:45 < tehme> but anyway, my arrays are too small to worry
00:45 < tehme> but interesting
00:46 < Drainedsoul> bool first=false;for (auto i : items) { if (first) first=false; else std::cout << ", "; std::cout << i; }
00:47 < tehme> wut
00:47 < tehme> mb first = true ?
00:48 < Drainedsoul> yeah
00:48 < Drainedsoul> my bad
00:56 < tehme> well, i did it
00:56 < tehme> now i can parse wiki source, fix types and recognize arrays and fields that represent their length
00:57 < tehme> now i must do a code generator that can use all this
03:26 < conur> hey all
03:27 < conur> Im back again with another issue that I just cant solve...  does anyone have any idea how you write the UCS-2 strings in java?  Ive tried like a hundred different things including dig into craftbukkit's 1.6.2 code on github and Im just lost.  2 hours has gotten me nowhere so far
03:28 <+sadimusi> DataOutputStream is your friend
03:28 <+sadimusi> http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/java/io/DataOutputStream.html#writeChars(java.lang.String)
03:30 < conur> Im using NIO so, bytebuffers.  Can i mix the two?
03:31 <+sadimusi> there are probably a few other classes implementing DataOutpu
03:31 <+sadimusi> +t
03:31 <+sadimusi> those don't look very useful though
03:32 < Drainedsoul> wouldn't using that method write UTF-16 characters, not UCS-2 characters?
03:33 < conur> Im just stumped.  It seems like i should be able to just write the short for the size then write all the bytes inside the string, but for some reason that just refuses to work properly.
03:33 <+sadimusi> it's what minecraft uses...
03:33 < ffmdr> utf-16 == ucs-2
03:33 <+sadimusi> ffmdr: hell no
03:33 < Drainedsoul> yeah lol
03:33 < Drainedsoul> that's the furthest thing from the truth I've read all day
03:33 < conur> hes right
03:33 < conur> to an extent
03:33 < conur> it stops being the same at some point iirc
03:34 <+sadimusi> well, for all practical purposes it's true :P
03:34 < Drainedsoul> UCS-2 can represent code points that UTF-16 can't, and vice versa.  So it's not really true.
03:34 < ffmdr> uh
03:35 <+sadimusi> conur: http://grepcode.com/file/repository.grepcode.com/java/root/jdk/openjdk/6-b14/java/io/DataOutputStream.java#DataOutputStream.writeChars%28java.lang.String%29
03:35 < conur> thank you, hopefully that will clear it up
03:35 < conur> here's what i get right now when pinging lol http://gyazo.com/6c762a4c816b951674d565ac1f337ca8.png
03:36 <+sadimusi> apparently java just uses ucs2 internally
03:36 < Drainedsoul> it used to, it doesn't anymore.
03:36 <+sadimusi> then minecraft doesn't use ucs-2 either
03:36 <+ammar2> conehead: don't copy the code from the repo, wrap a ByteArrayOutputStream with a DataOutputStream and then use ByteBuffer.wrap(arraystream.toArray())
03:36 <+ammar2> err
03:36 <+ammar2> conur: ^
03:37 <+sadimusi> ammar2: that doesn't sound much better
03:37 <+ammar2> sadimusi: JAVA ENTERPRISE!!1!
03:37 <+ammar2> wrap everything
03:38 < Drainedsoul> http://docs.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/lang/String.html => "A String represents a string in the UTF-16 format [...]"
03:38 < conur> by the way, should the size that I send to the client be half the # of bytes contained in the string, since it's characters?
03:38 < conur> or, chars to be specific
03:38 <+ammar2> yup
03:38 < conur> ok just wanted to make sure that wasnt the part i was mucking up 
03:41 < conur> this code doesnt work: http://gyazo.com/ecf0098cae123ec250fa181afe92716f.png pretend message is exactly this: §1 74 1.6.2 Hello 0 6
03:42 < Drainedsoul> what are the raw bytes it's sending?
03:42 < conur> one second
03:43 < conur> excuse the spam:  -2, -1, 0, -89, 0, 49, 0, 0, 0, 55, 0, 52, 0, 0, 0, 49, 0, 46, 0, 54, 0, 46, 0, 50, 0, 0, 0, 72, 0, 101, 0, 108, 0, 108, 0, 111, 0, 0, 0, 48, 0, 0, 0, 54
03:46 < Drainedsoul> shouldn't the first byte be 0xFF or -1?
03:47 < Drainedsoul> and wouldn't -1, 0 be 0xFF, 0 which would be 255 as a short?
03:47 < Drainedsoul> or am I totally out to lunch
03:47 <+sadimusi> I assume the -2 comes from the client
03:47 < Drainedsoul> oh this isn't just the bytes being sent
03:48 <+sadimusi> but your length can't be right
03:48 <+sadimusi> it looks like it's missing completely
03:48 < Drainedsoul> yeah because 49 = "1" I'm p. sure
03:48 <+sadimusi> and -89 is probably §
03:49 < conur> oh i wasnt including that part
03:49 < conur> sorry
03:49 < conur> i just included the actual message itself
03:50 <+sadimusi> so the -2 -1 is the length?
03:50 < Drainedsoul> no
03:50 < Drainedsoul> NSAUHS
03:50 < conur> no
03:50 < Drainedsoul> that's the fucking
03:50 < Drainedsoul> BOM
03:50 < conur> sec
03:50 <+sadimusi> :D
03:50 < Drainedsoul> use
03:50 < conur> i will add the part that sends the size
03:50 < Drainedsoul> UTF-16BE as your encoding
03:50 < Drainedsoul> and it won't write the BOM
03:50 < conur> how do i do that?
03:50 <+ammar2> conur: err guy, why are you calling flip on your buffer?
03:51 < Drainedsoul> message.getBytes("UTF-16BE")
03:51 < conur> tbh i assumed it was default BE
03:51 < Drainedsoul> make sure when you get the length you do the same thing
03:51 < Drainedsoul> it is
03:51 < conur> is it default LE?
03:51 < Drainedsoul> but it isn't
03:51 < conur> WAT
03:51 < Drainedsoul> big endian is the default, but if you don't specify an endianness explicitly it writes the BOM
03:51 < Drainedsoul> the ZWNBSP
03:51 < conur> OH
03:51 < conur> okay
03:53 < conur> hahaha what the hell?  this is certainly different..
03:53 < conur> http://gyazo.com/ff1a133cbc87726dcb6acbf4a72357aa.png
03:54 < Drainedsoul> you're
03:54 < Drainedsoul> when you get the length, you're not specifying UTF-16BE
03:54 < Drainedsoul> so they're different lengths
03:54 < Drainedsoul> ultimately you should just get the bytes of the string and save it between those two calls so you don't encode the string twice
03:55 < conur> http://gyazo.com/9c8a27ca3efc4cfc202235b0768e6163.png i dont understand where else im supposed to be specifying charset
03:56 < Drainedsoul> up at the top, you get the buffer, get its length, and output that as a short, but you get the buffer with the BOM in it because you don't specify UTF-16BE
03:56 < Drainedsoul> second line of that SS
03:57 < conur> so MESSAGE the variable ALSO needs to be specified as UTF-16BE?
03:58 < Drainedsoul> you're saying out.put((byte)0xFF).putShort((short)(message.getBytes().length/2));
03:58 < Drainedsoul> but you need to say
03:58 < Drainedsoul> out.put((byte)0xFF).putShort((short)(message.getBytes("UTF-16BE").length/2));
03:58 < conur> OH i didnt even see that
03:58 < conur> sigh
03:58 < conur> i should have these on separate lines
03:58 < conur> it makes this way less hard to debug..
03:58 < Drainedsoul> you should just fetch the bytes of the string once
03:58 < conur> solid idea
04:00 < conur> OH MY GOD IT WORKS
04:00 < conur> JESUS
04:00 < conur> I cannot believe I spent 3 hours on this.  
04:00 <+sadimusi> shouldn't message.length work just as well?
04:00 < conur> Then again it's been like a year since Ive done any programming so I guess my problem solving skills have sort of drained..
04:00 < conur> thank you drainedsoul (y)
04:00 < Drainedsoul> it will, but not in all cases if he eventually switches over to actual UCS-2
04:01 < Drainedsoul> conur: netime
04:27 < conur> Ive gotta say, after not programming for over a year and instead learning to make music, the way I approach project management is totally different and I love it.  Im way more productive now
04:27 < conur> Anyone else here ever dabbled in FL Studio/Ableton/etc.?
04:29 < dx> huh interesting
04:30 < dx> conur: i tried to get into it but DAWs seemed to be about 'do random stuff until it looks good'. but i'm interested in how it changed the way you work
04:34 < conur> well
04:35 < conur> now i approach the creative process / getting stuff done a little differently
04:35 < conur> i used to just dive in without thinking and then focus on each little detail way too much, stupid stuff like what to name a method.  I also had a tedious habit of documenting each little thing as i went along 
04:36 < conur> now I take a little bit of time to plan ahead, then try to get the general blanket idea of what im doing figured out so i can put everything together and make it work just well enough 
04:36 < conur> then ill get into the little details, and then ill zoom back out and work on the next portion of the project and repeat the process
04:37 < conur> im also choosing to not stay up until 6am on a problem and instead leave when i get too stressed out and give myself some time to think on it :P
04:43 < dx> heh "zoom out"
04:45 < conur> haha
04:45 < conur> so what turned you off of DAWs?
04:45 < dx> meanwhile when i mess with audio i tend to focus on details too much, but i don't have that problem when programming
04:45 < dx> i don't know really, i guess they weren't what i was looking for
04:46 < dx> the process of making music seemed too much like putting a bunch of arbitrary sounds in arbitrary places and getting arbitrary results
04:47 < dx> and i don't like 'magic numbers'
04:48 < conur> its all pretty in-your-head and not really super visual isnt it
04:48 < dx> hm?
04:48 < conur> i feel you.  its hard to keep track of it all and try to visualize that little "box" of space you have to put things in
04:48 < conur> but thats all mixing and mixing gets super stressful super fast
04:49 < conur> when youre just writing the music itself you can just ignore all that pretty easily and that part of it is the most fun
04:49 < conur> just grab a piano synth and some drum samples and mess around until something sounds good.
04:50 < conur> i just started to get better at sound design with oscillators on synths like Sylenth1 and thats a ton of fun to play around with too
04:50 < dx> oh damn you just reminded me that i should keep that audionews.org account alive
04:50 < dx> (by mentioning "drum samples" :D, there are large sample libraries and other stuff in that site)
04:51 < dx> oh nevermind there was no need to.
04:55 < conur> if i can make a suggestion
04:55 < conur> get as many sample packs as possible
04:55 < conur> just rip Vengeance packs.  I have a ton of them.  it makes everything way easier
04:55 < dx> samples are good!
04:56 < conur> im starting to learn to make my own, nothing like real instruments since i have no acoustic instruments save a piano, but just playing with sounds and stuff.
05:14 < Not-001> [Charge] none pushed 3 commits to master [+18/-0/±1] http://git.io/M2-3YA
05:14 < Not-001> [Charge] Wallbraker ee6ed58 - lib: Add loader
05:14 < Not-001> [Charge] Wallbraker b9dbfe0 - lib: Add SDL bindings
05:14 < Not-001> [Charge] Wallbraker bcce8dc - charge: Setup a mini skeleton core
07:56 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2167 19 files : Refactoring pass: Made fCraft.Position struct immutable.
07:56 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2168 4 files : Refactoring pass: Moved BlockingQueue<T> class out of fCraft core into MapRenderer project (since that's the only use).
08:51 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2169 4 files : Updated JetBrains.Annotations.cs to ReSharper 8.0 implementations + minor cleanup.
12:04 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2170 2 files : Sloppy fix for AddWorldPopup lockup. Gotta rewrite synchronization some time. Maybe after moving to .NET 4.0
12:23 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2171 2 files : Fixed a very rare ChatTimer error, when trying to print negative time left.
12:40 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2172 2 files : Improved logging of console-command errors in ServerGUI. Adjusted block-binding code in Player.cs to potentially work with custom block types.
16:37 < Not-002> [Charge] Wallbraker pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-1/±3] http://git.io/VUwV7Q
16:38 < Not-002> [Charge] Wallbraker 594cfff - charge: Load SDL dynamically by default
17:58 < ffmdr> anyone got some quick server list ping code in java for 1.6?
19:05 < Not-002> [Charge] Wallbraker pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/9c7fHQ
19:05 < Not-002> [Charge] Wallbraker 6ebc22f - core: Fix library names to be enums
19:12 < ellisvlad> Hi everyone :D
19:13 < ellisvlad> Anyone at i49?
19:13 < ellisvlad> Dinnerbone... mind coming to H2 G20? :D?
19:24 < Calinou> what
20:52 < Not-002> [Charge] Wallbraker pushed 2 commits to master [+5/-0/±1] http://git.io/jYnO7g
20:52 < Not-002> [Charge] Wallbraker 6ca8f48 - lib: Add GLES bindings
20:52 < Not-002> [Charge] Wallbraker e6cb9e6 - core: Load GLES on start
22:07 < Not-002> [Charge] Wallbraker pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/VFK3Rw
22:07 < Not-002> [Charge] Wallbraker fa106c3 - core: Fix OpenGL on Emscripten
--- Day changed lun. août 26 2013
00:01 < Not-002> [Charge] Wallbraker pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/ohwOvw
00:01 < Not-002> [Charge] Wallbraker 36ddda3 - core: Swap buffers on native as well
00:01 < Not-002> [Charge] Wallbraker 1edae08 - charge: Draw a small triangle with OpenGL
01:21 < wolfmitchell> Anyone know any good C++ MC protocol libs for 1.5.2? The wiki says the latest mc--c supports 1.3.2, not anything above...
01:30 < AnotherOne|2> you can use my generated libs, but they are unfinished
01:30 < AnotherOne|2> messages*
01:30 < AnotherOne|2> https://github.com/tehme/mcprotocol
01:33 < Drainedsoul> just write your own
01:33 < Drainedsoul> you're a few template metaprograms away!
01:39 < AnotherOne|2> can you show yours?
01:40 < Drainedsoul> https://github.com/RobertLeahy/MCPP/blob/c8bc0723ea6ab03d9188c43e85acaac5c1fdd99c/include/packet.hpp
01:44 < tehme> is this to practice templating skills?
01:45 < Drainedsoul> no, why would you implement it w/o using templates wth
01:46 < tehme> because i want var names
01:46 < Drainedsoul> well I hope you enjoy typing
01:46 < tehme> heh
01:47 < tehme> i practice in code generation and lua:)
01:54 < tehme> oh yeah
01:54 < tehme> TEMPLATES EVERYWHERE
01:54 < tehme> template specialization rocks
01:55 < Drainedsoul> yeah I like it.  Get the compiler to do all your work for you.
01:55 < tehme> i didn't know about ot when i generated previous version of messages
01:55 < tehme> it made me some asspain on serialize function
01:56 < tehme> now i can Serialize<type>
01:56 < tehme> how do you solve a problem when you get part of packet?
01:57 < Drainedsoul> the packets are incrementally built, and the partially built packets are stored per-client
01:57 <+sadimusi> I just raise a PartialPacketException which basically rewinds the stream and it starts parsing again when more data is available
01:57 < Drainedsoul> ...
01:57 < Drainedsoul> lol
01:58 <+sadimusi> well, I didn't actually write that part
01:58 < tehme> i did the same
01:58 <+sadimusi> but it looked like an ok solution to me
01:58 < tehme> but this is pretty expensive
01:58 < tehme> is processing speed ok?
01:58 < Drainedsoul> https://github.com/RobertLeahy/MCPP/blob/c8bc0723ea6ab03d9188c43e85acaac5c1fdd99c/src/server.cpp#L57
02:28 < wolfmitchell> tehme, does that have any hook-like stuff? eg. to call a function for me when a client connects, when a player breaks a block, etc?
02:36 < tehme> nope
02:39 < wolfmitchell> ah, looks like I'll just implement it myself
02:39 < wolfmitchell> tehme, are there any docs for the library?
02:40 < tehme> only comments
02:40 < wolfmitchell> hm, ok
02:41 < tehme> in russian
02:41 < wolfmitchell> ._.
02:41 < tehme> heh
02:41 < tehme> if you want to use it, just ask me
02:41 < wolfmitchell> well, I'm probably going to :P
02:41 < wolfmitchell> I'm planning on writing my own MC server
02:42 < tehme> lib is client-oriented, but may fit
02:43 < wolfmitchell> ah
02:43 < wolfmitchell> meh, I'll just write my own...
02:43 < tehme> i'll generate new 1.5.2 packets for you after finishing my generator, if you want
02:44 < wolfmitchell> hm. ok :D
02:44 < wolfmitchell> do you think you can make it so it can use hooks and shit?
02:45 < wolfmitchell> tehme, ^
02:45 < tehme> mayebe
02:45 < tehme> maybe*
02:45 < wolfmitchell> that would make this a whole lot easier, lol
02:46 < wolfmitchell> also, do you use boost for it?
02:46 < wolfmitchell> ._.
02:46 < tehme> i didn't even imagine i would recognize arrays and generate code for them automatcally
02:46 < tehme> for generation?
02:46 < tehme> nope
02:46 < wolfmitchell> I mean, for the actual sockets and stuff
02:46 < wolfmitchell> looks like you did
02:46 < tehme> sdl net
02:47 < wolfmitchell> ah
02:47 < tehme> there may be some boost
02:47 < tehme> i don't remember now
02:47 < wolfmitchell> wait, then why do I get errors about boost when doing g++ -Wall -O2 -fpic * messages/* -o mcprotocol.o
02:47 < wolfmitchell> also do you have any headers generated for it?
02:47 < tehme> ah
02:47 < tehme> there is some boost
02:47 < tehme> boost endian
02:47 < wolfmitchell> ah
02:48 < tehme> it was near packets, iirc
02:48 < tehme> if it is not, just google it
02:48 < tehme> it is not in boost actually
02:48 < wolfmitchell> o-o
02:50 < wolfmitchell> also, tbh, this is my first  (actually second, but the first was tiny) project in C++ lol
02:54 < tehme> heh
02:54 < tehme> good luck then:)
02:55 < wolfmitchell> tehme, also, what license is your library under?
02:55 < tehme> "do what the fuck you want license"
02:57 < tehme> iirc, mit licnse is the same
03:01 < wolfmitchell> hm, ok
03:01 < wolfmitchell> I'll include your project with mine for the sake of helping people with problems, but I'll make sure to give credit
03:03 < tehme> good luck with it, i hope you will not hate me:)
03:04 < wolfmitchell> :P
03:04 < tehme> good night
03:04 < tehme> im going to sleep
12:19 < Not-003> [fCraft] fragmer * r2173 6 files : Renamed ReturnSelfIfNoMatches search option to ReturnSelfIfOnlyMatch, to better reflect its purpose.
13:17 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2174 8 files : Added GUI binding for HeartbeatUrl setting to ConfigGUI. Slightly sped up ConfigGUI startup.
19:21 < tehme> wtf
19:21 < tehme> 1.6.2 server treats my name as hieroglyphs
19:22 < tehme> Tester -> 吀攀猀琀攀爀
19:22 < tehme> but it recognizes localhost ok, because client connects normally and gets 0xFD
19:23 < tehme> is it some server bug?
19:23 <+sadimusi> the host is never actually used
19:23 <+sadimusi> so your encoding's probably wrong somehow
19:23 < tehme> hm
19:23 < tehme> mb
19:24 < tehme> i'll check
19:24 < Drainedsoul> those aren't hieroglyphs
19:24 < Drainedsoul> looks like CJK
19:24 < Drainedsoul> are you sure about your endianness?
19:25 < dav1d> ^ my guess as well
19:25 < tehme> do i have to change endianness for strings?
19:25 < Drainedsoul> well you have to use UCS-2BE
19:25 < Drainedsoul> not UCS-2LE
19:25 < tehme> iirc, in my 152 version i did change it
19:26 < Drainedsoul> well you can change it manually or you can get the encoder to do it for you
19:27 <+sadimusi> somebody who knows this whole encoding stuff a bit better than me should try to figure out if java really uses ucs-2 when you call the charAt() method on a string and not just utf-16
19:28 < Drainedsoul> I'll try and figure it out
19:28 < Drainedsoul> I've written a Unicode library and implementations of UTF-8, UCS-2, UTF-16, and UTF-32, so I hope I qualify :|
19:28 <+sadimusi> sounds like it should be enough :)
19:28 < Drainedsoul> just give me a few minutes
19:28 <+sadimusi> there's some info in the docs http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/java/lang/Character.html
19:29 < Drainedsoul> well a character in Java is a code unit I'm p. sure
19:29 < Drainedsoul> but I don't know how charAt works, so I'll write a simple test
19:33 < Drainedsoul> it gets the code unit
19:34 < Drainedsoul> so if you make a string that just contains MUSICAL SYMBOL G CLEF (U+1D11E)
19:34 < Drainedsoul> charAt(0) == 0xD834, charAt(1) == 0xDD1E
19:34 < Drainedsoul> which is a high/low surrogate pair
19:37 <+sadimusi> and what does that mean in terms of encoding? (I really have no idea about unicode)
19:37 <+sadimusi> all DataOutput does is combining these values, so in this case you would get D834DD1E
19:37 < Drainedsoul> internally Java stores strings as UTF-16, which means that characters outside the Basic Multilingual Plane are two code units
19:38 < Drainedsoul> D834 DD1E is illegal UCS-2
19:38 < Drainedsoul> because UCS-2 would interpret it as D834 (illegal Unicode) followed by DD1E (illegal Unicode)
19:38 <+sadimusi> so it is utf-16?
19:38 < Drainedsoul> yes
19:38 <+sadimusi> who came up with this whole ucs-2 thing then?
19:39 < Drainedsoul> for Minecraft or in general?
19:39 <+sadimusi> I should probably write some unit tests before jumping to conclusions
19:39 <+sadimusi> yes
19:39 < Drainedsoul> UCS-2 used cover all of Unicode because planes other than the BMP were added
19:39 < Drainedsoul> UTF-16 is an extension -- a hack
19:39 < Drainedsoul> it's awful.  It's got all the worst qualities of UTF-8 and UTF-32 without any of their advantages
19:39 < Drainedsoul> *before planes other than the BMP
19:40 < Drainedsoul> Unicode used to be a string 16-bit character set until it was extended
19:40 < Drainedsoul> *strict
19:50 <+sadimusi> alright, sending a g clef with an actual dataoutputstream really results in d8 34 dd 1e
19:51 < Drainedsoul> which is UTF-16BE
19:51 <+sadimusi> so minecraft is not using ucs-2 at all
19:51 < Drainedsoul> UCS-2BE wouldn't be able to represent that code point and would have to either throw, drop the code point, or replace it with something
19:51 <+sadimusi> I'll try sending it to an actual minecraft server
19:52 < Drainedsoul> try sending it in the middle of a string.
19:52 < Drainedsoul> that result of that will be a better diagnosis
20:00 <+sadimusi> the client doesn't show it, in the console it's replaced by ? but the server shows http://d.pr/i/9wAM
20:01 <+sadimusi> if I copy this thing from the server console and paste it here it turns into the g clef
20:01 <+sadimusi> (I sent -𝄞-)
20:02 <+sadimusi> on the client side it might be gson messing with it
20:02 <+sadimusi> and on the server side the gui just shows it wrong, in the console it's displayed correctly
20:06 < tehme> what is gson?
20:07 <+ammar2> google's json library for java
20:07 <+ammar2> its kinda like an ORM for json if you use it "properly"
20:07 < Drainedsoul> so yeah the server can parse UTF-16 too
20:07 < Drainedsoul> if the server was parsing as UCS-2, you'd see two weird characters, not just one
20:08 < Drainedsoul> when you sent that packet, was the string length set to 4 or 3?
20:09 <+sadimusi> 4
20:09 < Drainedsoul> well that's good.  Should I update the wiki?
20:10 <+sadimusi> yes, that would be nice
20:10 < Drainedsoul> turns out the strings are UTF-16BE strings prefixed with a short which gives their length in code units
20:10 < Drainedsoul> which is handy, if it gave their length in code points that'd be a nightmare of conditional parsing
20:10 < Drainedsoul> the likes of which you have never seen before -_-
20:11 < tehme> i tried to send string without resersing byteorder, the same shit
20:11 < tehme> looks like there is a bug somewhere
20:11 <+sadimusi> tehme: run it through a proxy
20:36 < tehme> well, bytes sent to server are: 00 06 54 00 65 00 73 00 74 00 65 00 72 00
20:36 < tehme> this is "Tester"
20:37 < tehme> am i missing \0 ?
20:37 <+sadimusi> looks like the wrong endianness to me
20:37 < Drainedsoul> that looks LE to me
20:37 < Drainedsoul> 54 00 <== that's little endian
20:37 < Drainedsoul> 00 06 <== that's big endian
20:38 < tehme> oh shi..
20:38 < tehme> i fucked up my invertor
20:38 < Drainedsoul> you should just tell your encoder to give you UTF-16BE and forget about it
20:40 < tehme> icant:)
20:40 < Drainedsoul> why not
20:41 < tehme> how should i?
20:42 < tehme> can i set wstring to this?
20:42 < Drainedsoul> that would really depend on the encoder you're using
20:42 < tehme> std::reverse:D
20:42 < Drainedsoul> what happens when you compile on a big endian machine
20:43 < tehme> this is temporary
20:43 < tehme> quick and dirty hack
20:43 < tehme> i will use boost endian later
20:43 < Drainedsoul> famous last words
20:43 < tehme> heh
20:44 < tehme> fixed
20:44 < tehme> i reverted that twice
20:45 < tehme> now it's ok
20:45 <+sadimusi> o.O
20:45 < tehme> wut
20:49 < tehme> how should i specialize array version of serialization function?
20:49 < tehme> now i just add one int argument, like in post-incrementation
20:50 < Drainedsoul> what?
20:50 < Drainedsoul> you can specialize templates on arrays with template <typename T, size_t i> class<T [i]> { };
20:53 < Drainedsoul> and then you can do
20:53 < Drainedsoul> int arr[15];
20:53 < Drainedsoul> my_class<decltype(arr)> obj;
21:16 < Drainedsoul> so where'd the myth of MC using UCS-2 come from?
21:17 < Drainedsoul> http://wiki.vg/Data_Types this has been updated
21:19 < dx> wait what
21:20 < dx> so chars outside the BMP are supported?
21:21 < Drainedsoul> all of them apparently, all the way up to 0x10FFFF
21:21 < Drainedsoul> sadimusi sent G clef earlier
21:21 < dx> so there's no reason at all to not support utf-8? :D
21:21 < dx> because parsing utf-16 by reading pairs of bytes is just wrong
21:23 < Drainedsoul> plus UTF-16 is incredibly space/bandwidth inefficient
21:24 < dx> (as a UTF-16 code unit is 2 bytes, multiply the length by two to get the length in bytes).
21:24 < dx> ^quoting wiki, sorry
21:25 < Drainedsoul> what's wrong with that? @_@
21:25 < dx> not sure if that part is correct
21:25 < Drainedsoul> what's wrong with it?
21:25 < dx> stuff outside the BMP isn't 2 bytes
21:25 < Drainedsoul> no, but it's two two byte code units, which make one code point
21:25 < dx> oooh code unit
21:25 < dx> nevermind then
21:26 < dx> this stuff is confusing
21:27 < Drainedsoul> yeah I spent a Christmas break writing an implementation in C++ to understand it
21:28 < dx> you should clarify that in the wiki a bit more then
21:28 < Drainedsoul> sure
21:28 < dx> and of course mention that we used to think it's UCS-2 but it's not
21:29 < dx> Drainedsoul: the 'code unit' wiki link redirects to "character encoding" :/
21:46 < Drainedsoul> http://wiki.vg/Data_Types
21:51 <+sadimusi> dx: even though it's utf-16, the client can't display most of it
21:52 <+sadimusi> dx: and gson even stripped the g clef out of a chat message and replaced it with a question mark
21:53 < dx> sadimusi: not surprising, but the parsing is what's relevant here
21:53 < dx> Drainedsoul: so verbose! perfect!
21:54 <+sadimusi> yes, of cours
21:54 <+sadimusi> *course
21:54 <+sadimusi> it probably couldn't display every UCS-2 code point either
21:55 < dx> i don't remember if i tried ಠ_ಠ
21:55 < Drainedsoul> well earlier when tehme had his endianness wrong, it looked like the client was displaying CJK?
21:55 < dx> but that character in particular needs a decent setup of font fallbacks to render properly
21:56 < dx> Drainedsoul: those are supported because the client translations include them
21:56 < Drainedsoul> ah okay, I didn't realize there were client translations for asian languages
21:57 < dx> there's stuff like arabic too, which i think one of the mojangstas posted a screenshot about improving the rendering (which is pretty complex)
21:57 < Drainedsoul> well a lot of arabic languages are right-to-left
21:58 < dx> yeah, but they also join the characters in unusual ways
21:59 <+sadimusi> it looks like the whole BMP is supported
21:59 < Drainedsoul> if you want weird joining behaviour, you should take a look at CJK unification
21:59 < Drainedsoul> jesus
22:01 <+sadimusi> I can even enter a g clef in the chat box and it gets sent correctly
22:01 < Drainedsoul> nice
22:01 <+sadimusi> the client just doesn't display it at all
22:02 < dx> sadimusi: are you planning to spam the bugtracker with this kind of issues? :D
22:02 <+sadimusi> :D no
22:02 <+sadimusi> somebody should write a bot to file a bug for every missing code point :)
22:03 < dx> actually, unit testing for rendering of every unicode code point would be awesome. (basically what you said, except the part where it submits bugs)
22:04 < Drainedsoul> ~1.05 million of them
22:04 < Drainedsoul> it's amazing how big the planes of Unicode that are outside the BMP are : |
22:04 < dx> fun
22:05 < dx> (of course i don't think anyone would care enough to write a test case like the one i suggested)
22:07 < Drainedsoul> well, a lot of the code points are unassigned
22:08 <+sadimusi> I should file a bug report for my terminal's font (monaco), emoji symbols don't have the same width as the other chars: http://d.pr/i/sO2t
22:08 < Drainedsoul> what happened to the quote after that last emoji?
22:08 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: covered by the smiley
22:08 <+sadimusi> exactly
22:09 < Drainedsoul> wow
22:09 < Drainedsoul> so it's not monospace but it thinks it is
22:09 < Drainedsoul> that's even worse than it just not being monospace haha
22:19 < dx> sadimusi: err what, fonts normally don't have colors
22:19 < dx> fonts are just.. shapes
22:19 <+sadimusi> maybe the system's font rendering adds the emojis somehow
22:20 < dav1d> lol apple
22:20 < dx> and either way monaco is a font developed by apple, not something you can report bugs for
22:22 <+sadimusi> wait, that's not monaco
22:22 <+sadimusi> it's menlo
22:22 <+sadimusi> which is also from apple :/
22:22 < dx> right, monaco has a glyph for "a" that looks like "o"
22:23 < dx> i've used monaco for a long time but my eyesight got worse and now it's hard to tell the difference :(
22:23 < dx> using dejavu sans mono right now
22:24 <+sadimusi> "Menlo is based upon […] the public domain font Deja Vu"
22:24 < dx> oh wow.
22:30  * clonejo got evangelised to Terminus.
22:35 < dx> tried bitmap fonts a few times, but it's annoying how the glyphs change a lot at each size they provide
22:35 < dav1d> clonejo: !
22:48 <+clonejo> dav1d: ?
22:48 < dav1d> clonejo: got my query?
22:48 <+clonejo> yup
22:48 < dav1d> wanna answer it?^^
22:49 < Not-003> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 pushed 3 commits to master [+0/-0/±3] http://git.io/YcltoQ
22:49 < Not-003> [node-minecraft-protocol] dividuum 170566d - New way to handle conditional fields in packets Some packets have conditional fields. The previous way to handle those was to provide a single condition for each packet type which determined if additional fields are appended to the packet. Unfortunately this is not enough for some packets: They have complex conditions that cannot be expressed this way. This diff changes the way conditional fields a
22:49 < Not-003> [node-minecraft-protocol] dividuum de220e1 - set unavailable fields to null
22:50 < Not-003> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 3002927 - Merge pull request #62 from dividuum/master New way to handle conditional fields in packets
23:15 < tehme> oh fuck
23:15 < tehme> c++ is almighty
23:50 < Drainedsoul> yes it is
23:50 < Drainedsoul> but why specifically
--- Day changed mar. août 27 2013
00:36 < Not-003> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/ZwvFcQ
00:36 < Not-003> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 8b7abe2 - Release 0.11.5
00:36 < Not-003> [node-minecraft-protocol] superjoe30 tagged 8b7abe2 as 0.11.5 http://git.io/MZmZSg
00:38 < ellisvlad> How is everyone doing this evening?
01:16 < Drainedsoul> pretty good, discovered that MC actually uses UTF-16, so that's good
01:33 < tehme> is std::wstring utf-16?
02:06 < Drainedsoul> I'm pretty sure that's platform dependent
02:06 < Drainedsoul> I'm also pretty sure that C++ std::string specializations are encoding unaware
02:07 < Drainedsoul> yeah std::wstring just uses wchar_t, so its characters are whatever width wchar_t is on your platform
02:08 < Drainedsoul> if you're concerned about encodings, you're going to need to use something beyond std::string, std::string is just a fancy std::vector
02:10 < tehme> what do you recommend?
02:12 < Drainedsoul> ICU?
02:12 < Drainedsoul> I wrote my own so I can't suggest one from first-hand experience
02:45 < Not-001> [fCraft] fragmer * r2175 6 files : Improved ConfigGUI startup time by ~20%
03:14 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2176 2 files : Sped up PlayerDB loading and saving by ~9%
05:40 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2177 2 files : Further improvements to server startup time (~4% faster)
08:08 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2178 2 files : Fixed a serialization bug in LastFailedLoginIP
09:34 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2179 2 files : /hide and /unhide now indicate whether it was silent or not.
09:55 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2180 3 files : 0.642 final -- updated readme/changelog/updater.
09:56 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2181 2 files : 0.642 tag
10:54 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2182 2 files : Branching off 0.90x
13:28 < tehme> sup
13:55 < tehme> hey Drainedsoul
13:56 < tehme> how do you serialize messages?
17:06 < Drainedsoul> tehme: what do you mean "messages"?
17:13 < tehme> well, packets
17:14 < Drainedsoul> in what way?
17:14 < Drainedsoul> do you mean making them into bytes, or actually sending them over the wire?
17:19 < jast> probably what serializing usually means
17:21 < Drainedsoul> it's done here https://github.com/RobertLeahy/MCPP/blob/master/include/packet.hpp / https://github.com/RobertLeahy/MCPP/blob/master/src/packet.cpp / https://github.com/RobertLeahy/MCPP/blob/master/src/packet_factory.cpp
17:21 < Drainedsoul> I just thought I already linked this code, so I wanted to be sure @_@
17:47 < tehme> hurray
17:47 < tehme> i made functions for serialization and deserialization
17:47 < tehme> they can even throw exceptions!
17:52 < Drainedsoul> they couldn't throw before? @_@
18:03 < tehme> they did not exist before
18:44 < tehme> is 0x2C new in 1.6.2?
18:45 < tehme> http://wiki.vg/Protocol#0x2C
18:46 < tehme> i want to fix thispacket's description a bit
18:46 < tehme> is ListElement constant size?
18:48 < Yoshi2> hm, the description for 0x2C is slightly messy indeed
18:50 < Yoshi2> tehme: if I had to guess, the size of ListElement in bytes is ListLength multiplied by (8 + 8 + 8 + 1)
18:51 < tehme> what if i introduce few more types?
18:51 < Yoshi2> that is, if each element in ListElement contains two longs, one double and one byte
18:51 < Yoshi2> how do you want to introduce more types?
18:53 < tehme> describe in wiki
20:30 < tehme> is there any other way to get message type by code than big switch?
20:44 < Drainedsoul> I don't see how there would be
20:44 < Drainedsoul> I mean you could use a lookup table but that's probably what the switch statement compiles to anyway
20:45 < Yoshi2> I do think that some sort of lookup table is prettier than a big block of switch statements
20:47 < Drainedsoul> I don't see how
20:51 < Yoshi2> it's either have a big bunch of code for parsing the packets here, or somewhere else
20:51 < Yoshi2> and I prefer having it somewhere else, away from the main code
20:52 < Drainedsoul> or you could just have a switch statement that invokes the code that parses each packet
20:53 < Drainedsoul> or, as I do, the switch statement is in a factory which returns an object which can parse the packet
21:20 < tehme> Handshake(74, L"Tester", L"localhost", 25565).serialize(bbuf);
21:20 < tehme> fock yeah look what i can:D
21:28 < tehme> what reason does client send on disconnect?
21:30 < Drainedsoul> what do you mean?
21:30 < Drainedsoul> "Quitting"?
21:32 < tehme> http://wiki.vg/Protocol#0xFF
21:33 < Thinkofdeath> tehme: I think it sends "disconnect.quitting"
21:34 < Drainedsoul> I'm pretty sure the literal string it sends is "Quitting"
21:34 < Drainedsoul> but that should be immaterial, your server shouldn't depend on that, it should only log it
21:37 < tehme> it gives me protocol error and kicks me if there is anything else
21:37 < tehme> disconnect.quitting was right answer
21:40 < tehme> this is strange
21:41 < tehme> i just concatenate 0x02, 0xCD and 0xFF into buffer and send as one packet
21:41 < tehme> sometimes it is ok, sometimes protocol error
21:41 < tehme> but there was always protocol error before "disconnect.quitting"
21:42 < Drainedsoul> here's your answer
21:42 < Drainedsoul> http://i.imgur.com/RV2ZLaj.png
21:42 < Drainedsoul> what exactly the client sends when it disconnects
21:43 < tehme> what the
21:43 < tehme> fuck
21:44 < Drainedsoul> ?
21:44 < tehme> is it some proxy?
21:44 < Drainedsoul> no, my server has that built in as a debugging utility
21:44 < tehme> good
21:45 < tehme> well, let's try with some delay
21:47 < tehme> yes
21:47 < tehme> it is "Quitting"
21:48 < tehme> but "disconnect.quitting" works too
21:49 < tehme> even "fuck" works, so server reaaly does not care
21:50 < tehme> really
21:50 < Drainedsoul> yeah the server shouldn't care, the reason isn't mandated to be anything in particular by the protocol
22:52 < tehme> yo
22:52 < tehme> fuk intornet
--- Day changed mer. août 28 2013
00:53 < tehme> yoyoyo
00:53 < tehme> anyone here?
01:07 < tehme> http://wiki.vg/User_talk:Tehme
01:08 < tehme> i want to replace trash type in 0x2C with this
01:10 < tehme> should i?
01:10 <+sadimusi> no
01:10 < tehme> why?
01:11 <+sadimusi> because of the field types
01:11 < tehme> so they are not static
01:11 < SinZ> we don't call them int64, they are longs
01:11 < Drainedsoul> 0x2C already has problems
01:11 < Drainedsoul> it's not two longs it's 1 128-bit integer
01:12 < SinZ> its sent as two longs, as Java doesn't support a 128bit number
01:12 <+sadimusi> but Drainedsoul's still right
01:13 <+sadimusi> we shouldn't care too much about how minecraft does it internally
01:31 < tehme> anyway type name and table below is better than that shitty description
01:35 < tehme> http://wiki.vg/User_talk:Tehme like this
01:35 <+sadimusi> just make the uuid one field
01:36 < tehme> what type to use?
01:36 <+sadimusi> 128bit int
01:36 < tehme> heh
01:37 < tehme> ok
01:37 <+sadimusi> adding another type to the data type section would only be confusing
01:37 <+sadimusi> or wouldn't it?
01:37 < tehme> i will not
01:37 < tehme> i will place this table under message table
01:37 <+sadimusi> I meant the 128bit int
01:38 < tehme> oh
01:38 <+sadimusi> it's probably best to call it that and still add it to the data types page
01:38 < tehme> well, i'll ask tomorrow before fixing
01:38 <+sadimusi> there you could also add the info that the vanilla implementation uses two longs
01:38 < tehme> good night :)
01:38 <+sadimusi> gn8
01:44 < Drainedsoul> should I add that to data types?
01:44 <+sadimusi> sure
01:44 < Drainedsoul> okay will do
01:48 <+sadimusi> thanks
01:57 < Drainedsoul> since we're doing the whole weird Java naming scheme for integer types, what should I call it?
03:24 <+clonejo> maybe something refering to long, eg. long2 or longX2
06:29 < Drainedsoul> or we could use a name that has some meaning independent of Java
06:38 < dx> just "128 bit int", i'd say
06:39 < dx> also i think that's (almost) exactly what sadimusi was suggesting (but i added a space)
06:48 < TkTech> Hnng, the feeling of getting that 3 second SQLite query down to 30ms.
06:50 < TkTech> Drainedsoul / dx: For what it's worth, +1 on more explicit names for types.
06:50 < TkTech> Still a fan of [u]int[8|16|32|64]_t.
07:14 < Drainedsoul> I updated the data types page with the 128 bit integer.  Need to update 0x2C too (that whole packet's documentation is just a trainwreck)
09:56 < luntik13> hi
09:57 < luntik13> any non-cube-based minecraft clones out there?
09:57 < dx> welcome back
09:58 < Calinou> minceraft
09:58 < luntik13> something with gradient terrain (vertex based / interpolated ) ?
09:58 < dx> there was one but i forgot the name
09:59 < luntik13> please try to remember
10:00 < dx> oh found it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9-lJzFZ72I
10:01 < dx> last time i checked it was vaporware but their website has a paypal link so i dunno
10:01 < luntik13> thx
10:02 < dx> also http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/7daystodie/7-days-to-die-zombie-survival-game
10:03 < dx> but that one is more like dayz with voxels
10:04 < luntik13> im asking for something with gradient terrain AND that allows you to dig and build stuff
10:05 < dx> well this one does some smoothing of the border of the blocks, dunno what the right 3d term for that is, but not all stuff looks like a block
10:05 < luntik13> but its still block-based
10:05 < dx> kinda
10:06 < dx> some stuff doesn't look like a voxel at all
10:06 < luntik13> it stores world as blocks, doesn't it
10:06 < dx> don't ask me, i didn't reverse engineer a game that was barely released 10 days ago for kickstarter backers
10:07 < luntik13> im asking about clones that doesn't represent world in blocks at all
10:07 <+AndrewPH> luntik13: something something uberdark or underdark or something
10:07 <+AndrewPH> oh ya that
10:07 < dx> AndrewPH: heh, i linked that one
10:07 < dx> that name is übersilly
10:07 <+AndrewPH> dx: yeah i don't think it's vaporware, they've released a lot of updates to prepurchasersI think
10:07 < dx> AndrewPH: neat.
12:42 < tehme> yo sup
12:53 < Not-002> [FemtoCraft] fragmer * r108 4 files : Started on CPE support; added CustomBlocks to Blocks enum.
12:53 < Not-002> [FemtoCraft] fragmer * r109 3 files : Tweaked LvlMapConverter to be able to save/load custom block types. FemtoCraft now saves 0xFE/0xCF as VisitPermission/BuildPermission fields in LVL files, to serve as magic numbers.
12:59 < tehme> fuck
12:59 < tehme> now i see 0x2C needs 2 new structures
12:59 < Not-001> [FemtoCraft] fragmer * r110 10 files : Implemented Classic Protocol Extension handshake, and CustomBlocks extension.
13:06 < Not-002> [FemtoCraft] fragmer * r111 3 files : Added network tracing and more documentation of CPE stuff
13:06 < Not-002> [FemtoCraft] fragmer * r112 3 files : Disabled tracing code (for now), and fixed fallback for non-custom-block-enabled clients.
13:38 < tehme> yo people
13:38 < tehme> http://wiki.vg/User_talk:Tehme
13:39 < tehme> this is my version of 0x2C
13:39 < tehme> is it ok enough to replace original?
14:24 <+sadimusi> tehme: why the camel case?
14:24 <+sadimusi> and you should use the new 128-bit int
14:31 < tehme> sadimusi: why not camel case?
14:31 <+sadimusi> just make it two words
14:31 <+sadimusi> the wiki is read by humans, not machines
14:32 <+sadimusi> (at least most of the time)
14:32 < tehme> heh
14:35 < tehme> http://wiki.vg/User_talk:Tehme like this?
14:35 <+sadimusi> looks good
14:35 <+sadimusi> maybe change ListLength to List Length
14:35 <+sadimusi> and uuid to UUID
14:36 <+sadimusi> the fields should all start with a capital letter in the property data structure
14:36 < tehme> don't you want to write some naming guidelines?
14:37 <+sadimusi> :D
14:37 <+sadimusi> the other packets are pretty consistent
14:37 <+sadimusi> appart from the occasional EID or EntityID
14:37 < iBotPeaches> 0x2c i think is the only weird one
14:38 <+sadimusi> it's also the only one with string16
14:39 < tehme> nope
14:39 < tehme> i saw few more
14:39 <+sadimusi> I just searched on the page and found only one match
14:42 < tehme> http://wiki.vg/Protocol#Entity_Properties_.280x2C.29
14:42 < tehme> done
14:45 <+sadimusi> looks very good, except for the inconsistent spacing above the individual structures
14:47 < tehme> fix it, i dont know how
14:47 < mitch|mobile> Tehme: are you gonna put hooks and stuff into yer library?
14:47 < tehme> mitch|mobile: definitely not now
14:48 < mitch|mobile> mmk
14:49 < tehme> sadimusi: and really, think about writing guidelines, this will make our lives easier
14:49 < mitch|mobile> Tehme: also, I'll create a makefile for you
14:50 < tehme> mitch|mobile: structure is different now, everything is in a single file
14:50 < mitch|mobile> o-O ok
14:50 < mitch|mobile> How many lines? :P
14:51 < mitch|mobile> Also do you have headers for it generated? ._.
14:52 < tehme> it is in header:D
14:52 < mitch|mobile> Ah :D
14:52 < tehme> mb i will split later
14:53 < mitch|mobile> So I don't even need to create a makefile
14:55 < tehme> yep
14:56 < tehme> i will upload scripts for parsing and code generation to github later, if you need them
14:56 < mitch|mobile> Nah
14:57 < tehme> or i'll split trivial and special packets to different files
14:57 < tehme> yeah!
14:57 < tehme> imma fukken genius!
14:57 < tehme> crap
14:57 < mitch|mobile> What? Lol
14:58 < tehme> russians say: good idea comes late
14:58 < tehme> i had this late idea
14:59 < mitch|mobile> What is the idea?
14:59 < tehme> to write special packets into other file
15:00 < tehme> so i may update trivial ones without linefucking
15:00 < mitch|mobile> Oh. Thought you meant something else
15:00 < tehme> see you later:)
15:00 < mitch|mobile> Cya
16:05 < tehme> ping
16:09 < tehme> yo i have one more idea to change wiki
16:10 < tehme> what if mark packets as trivial and special?
16:10 <+sadimusi> nope
16:10 < tehme> why?
16:10 <+sadimusi> there's absolutely no benefit for readers
16:10 <+sadimusi> and don't try to make the wiki fit your parser
16:11 < tehme> i already did:)
16:11 <+sadimusi> I don't have anything against consistency, so I didn't have a problem with your previous changes
16:11 < tehme> i think there is "yes benefit"
16:12 <+sadimusi> and where would you draw the line?
16:12 < tehme> readers can do a quick-look and know if there are difficulties to implement this packet
16:13 <+sadimusi> you can do that right now with just a quick look at the fields table
16:14 < Drainedsoul> and whether there are "difficulties" would depend strongly on your chosen implementation
16:15 < tehme> well ok
16:24 < tehme> i think we need one more fix
16:24 < tehme> rename property data to modifier info
16:24 <+sadimusi> sounds good
16:26 < tehme> da refactorin'!
16:43 < tehme> yo what about standardizing entity id/eid?
17:14 <+sadimusi> tehme: Entity ID looks best to me
17:22 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/NZajPQ
17:22 < Not-002> [BraLa] Dav1dde 5df913f - fix opengl loader
18:03 < tehme> fixed
18:13 < tehme> yo sadimusi, so what about guidelines?
20:14 < tehme> yoyoyo
20:14 < tehme> who is wikiboss?
20:14 < tehme> some spammers love you, change question about snow white
20:14 < tehme> http://wiki.vg/User:KirbyO37ezqmr
20:19 < tehme> http://wiki.vg/User:GilbertCasillas i will not delete this one:D
21:29 < tehme> heeeey anyone
21:29 < tehme> who is wiki admin or moerator?
21:29 < tehme> ban bots
21:29 < dexter0> TkT_ech is the admin
21:36 < tehme> looks like he is not here
21:39 < dexter0> he uses a bouncer.  If you ping him, he'll see it eventually.
21:41 < tehme> TkTech, look at wiki and ban fucking spammers
21:41 < tehme> like this?
21:43 < dexter0> without the cursing preferably.
21:49 < Yoshi2> yep, your request will look a bit more professional without the cursing
22:03 < tehme> too late:)
22:46 <+sadimusi> tehme: aren't there enough examples to make guidelines obsolete? nobody is going to read them anyway
--- Day changed jeu. août 29 2013
00:22 < TkTech> I love the "Nuke" button.
00:36 < tehme> wow
03:48 < superjoe> fwhiffahder, hi
03:49 < fwhiffahder> hi
03:49 < superjoe> can I see the stack trace?
03:49 < fwhiffahder> the output, or is it logged somewhere?
03:50 < superjoe> the output
03:50 < fwhiffahder> https://gist.github.com/6373455
03:53 < fwhiffahder> it seems to be placing the block
03:53 < fwhiffahder> but crashes immediately
03:54 < superjoe> fwhiffahder, can you log bot.heldItem.type just before calling placeBlock?
03:55 < fwhiffahder> 287
03:55 < superjoe> hmm that seems like a valid UInt8 value to me
03:57 < superjoe> fwhiffahder, can you open up blocks.js from the trace and, just before the line that crashes, print blockTypeBuffer.length, type, and loc.blockIndex ?
03:59 < fwhiffahder> just 'type'
03:59 < fwhiffahder> and 'loc.blockIndex'?
04:00 < fwhiffahder> or blockTypeBuffer.type
04:00 < superjoe> no I mean print the values of those variables
04:00 < fwhiffahder> yes
04:00 < fwhiffahder> k
04:02 < superjoe> oh, also try putting Math.floor() around type as well as around loc.blockIndex
04:02 < fwhiffahder> 4096
04:02 < fwhiffahder> 2
04:02 < fwhiffahder> undefined
04:02 < fwhiffahder> 4096
04:02 < fwhiffahder> 287
04:02 < superjoe> what's undefined?
04:03 < fwhiffahder> type, i guess
04:03 < superjoe> it's difficult to debug if you're only guessing...
04:04 < fwhiffahder> 2 'type'
04:04 < fwhiffahder> undefined 'loc.BlockIndex'
04:04 < fwhiffahder> 4096 'blockTypeBuffer.length'
04:04 < fwhiffahder> 287 'type'
04:04 < fwhiffahder> undefined 'loc.BlockIndex'
04:04 < superjoe> ok that's a problem.
04:04 < superjoe> oh but it shouldn't be BlockIndex - it's case sensitive
04:05 < fwhiffahder> ah
04:05 < fwhiffahder> oops
04:05 < fwhiffahder> 096 'blockTypeBuffer.length'
04:05 < fwhiffahder> 3 'type'
04:05 < fwhiffahder> 3800 'loc.blockIndex'
04:05 < fwhiffahder> 4096 'blockTypeBuffer.length'
04:05 < fwhiffahder> 3 'type'
04:05 < fwhiffahder> 497 'loc.blockIndex'
04:05 < fwhiffahder> 4096 'blockTypeBuffer.length'
04:05 < fwhiffahder> 2 'type'
04:05 < fwhiffahder> 3802 'loc.blockIndex'
04:05 < fwhiffahder> 4096 'blockTypeBuffer.length'
04:05 < fwhiffahder> 3 'type'
04:05 < fwhiffahder> 4004 'loc.blockIndex'
04:05 < fwhiffahder> 4096 'blockTypeBuffer.length'
04:05 < fwhiffahder> 287 'type'
04:05 < superjoe> hey don't spam the channel
04:05 < fwhiffahder> 2102 'loc.blockIndex'
04:06 < superjoe> if it's too long use a paste
04:06 < fwhiffahder> ok, sorry
04:06 < superjoe> also I am only interested in the last thing that was printed - the one just before it crashed
04:07 < fwhiffahder> loc.blockIndex?
04:07 < superjoe> I want to know all 3 of the values, but only the last time that the 3 values are printed
04:08 < superjoe> think about it
09:31 < Not-009> [FemtoCraft] fragmer * r113 7 files : Added femto.fcraft.net sources (why not)
09:35 < Not-009> [FemtoCraft] fragmer * r114 3 files : Removed some more leftover debug/tracing code, and updated assembly versions.
09:41 < luntik13> hi
09:43 < luntik13> will naming my game "minecraft2", "minecraft+" or "minecraftHQ" violate any copyrights?
09:43 < shoghicp> https://minecraft.net/brand
09:44 < shoghicp> "Examples of naming: "The Shaft – a Minecraft podcast" (we're cool with that). "Minecraft - the ultimate help app" (we're NOT cool with that)"
09:44 < shoghicp> "sufficiently differentiate the use of the Minecraft Name from any other branding"
09:44 < luntik13> it will be HQ remake of minecraft (no cubes, smooth terrain/textures, better models/physics, etc)
09:44 < shoghicp> but it is not official ;)
09:45 < shoghicp> That name will cause problems
09:45 < luntik13> okay :|
09:45 <+AndrewPH> luntik13: your project must not begin with 'minecraft'
09:46 < luntik13> how about " minecraft"?
09:46 <+AndrewPH> that sounds perfect, go for it.
09:47 < shoghicp> brands@mojang.com
09:51 < luntik13> is it allowed to officially describe my project as hq remake of minecraft (on website etc)?
09:52 < shoghicp> wait. Is that a modification of Minecraft or a project done from scratch
09:53 < luntik13> scratch - no java shit, pure C + opengl, protocol will be different, too
09:54 <+AndrewPH> why not php?
09:54 < luntik13> lol
09:55 < shoghicp> luntik13: I like to do crazy things ith PHP
09:55 < luntik13> i know
09:55 < shoghicp> different protocol...
09:56 < shoghicp> then, it is not minecraft anymore. That is a basic thing of minecraft
09:56 < luntik13> but php isn't optimized well for graphic-intensive games
09:56 <+AndrewPH> the hellish protocol and cube-landscape are what define minecraft
09:56 < shoghicp> yeah :(
09:57 < luntik13> shoghicp: well, the general theme and gameplay will resemble those of minecraft
09:58 < luntik13> and maybe i will the sun squared
09:58 < luntik13> will it be enough?
09:59 < Yoshi2> I still don't think naming it minecraft would be a good idea
10:00 < shoghicp> But don't call it anything that triggers " {1,}minecraft.*"
10:00 < shoghicp> (case-insensitive)
10:00 < luntik13> i will choose safe name
10:00 < Yoshi2> but any other variation of <something>craft is just fine, look at all the other minecraft clones out there which end with -craft
10:01 < Yoshi2> any variation of mine<something> should be fair game too
10:01 < luntik13> however i intend to position it as hq remake of minecraft
10:01 < luntik13> is it allowed?
10:02 < shoghicp> <something>mine
10:02 < Yoshi2> A Minecraft-inspired HQ remake
10:02 < shoghicp> HQ-remake inspired on Minecraft
10:03 < luntik13> that's basically the same as "remake of minecraft", isn't it
10:04 < Calinou> yes, you are allowed to make a minecraft-style game
10:04 < Calinou> this isn't relevant to this channel, though
10:05 < jast> that's not a name btw, it's a description
10:05 < luntik13> and allowed to call it a remake of minecraft?
10:05 < shoghicp> luntik13: If you don't use Minecraft's protocol, you lose points
10:06 <+AndrewPH> perhaps you should just email mojang and ask :)
10:06 < shoghicp> I posted the email before ;)
10:06 < luntik13> minecraft protocol has MAJOR problems
10:07 < luntik13> the most important one - it deals with cubes, so i can't use it for my game
10:08 <+AndrewPH> so wait, you're saying it's not really anything like minecraft except it shares a genre?
10:09 < shoghicp> sandbox voxel game?
10:10 < luntik13> it will be similar in gameplay (dig/build/craft/...) but everything will be vertex-based+interpolated, there will be no cubes
10:14 < luntik13> world will be stored with vertexes and interpolation hints
11:44 < piracetam> lol, are ALL possible *craft names already taken?
11:49 < jast> surecraft
11:52 <+Prf_Jakob> notsurecraft
11:53 < piracetam> http://www.surecraft.com/
11:53 < piracetam> :(
11:53 < Calinou> *craft is stupid
11:53 < piracetam> maybe
11:53 < Calinou> have some imagination, thank you
11:54 < piracetam> ok sure
11:54 < SinZ> minestuff
11:54 < piracetam> http://minestuff.com.au/
11:54 < piracetam> :(
11:55 < shoghicp> It was hard 8 months ago xD
11:55 < shoghicp> I choose PocketMine
11:56 < shoghicp> MorbidCraft
11:56 < shoghicp> xD xD
11:57 < piracetam> lol, even "Uncubus" gives a shitload of results
11:57 < piracetam> will have to use random md5 hash probably
11:58 < shoghicp> piracetam: what is your project about?
11:58 < piracetam> shoghicp: i'm luntik13
11:58 < shoghicp> oh
11:59 < piracetam> so how hard will it be to fight all these people - http://www.google.ru/#newwindow=1&q=uncubus after project is up and ready?
12:01 < shoghicp> I took over a generic name
12:01 < shoghicp> but, against a Wikipedia page...
12:03 < shoghicp> Pirecetam's Craft
12:03 < piracetam> piracecraft lol
12:13 < Calinou> lol
12:15 < jast> there are probably more unused names for *crap, you could try a few of those
12:26 < piracetam> you tried those?
12:44 < Not-009> [FemtoCraft] fragmer * r115 2 files : Spiderweb and Fire blocks no longer cast shadows (for purposes of plant physics).
14:31 < AnotherOne|2> is it ok for 0xFD to have 41000+ public key length?
14:34 <+sadimusi> as long as bc can handle it it should be ok
14:34 <+sadimusi> so probably yes
14:36 < jast> fwiw it takes a _very_ long time to generate a 16384-bit RSA key
14:39 <+AndrewPH> jast: only about 2 minutes and 20 seconds
14:39 <+AndrewPH> (ideal circumstances)
14:40 < jast> ideal circumstances are not exactly the norm :)
14:40 <+AndrewPH> very true :p
15:05 < piracetam> what is the purpose of encrypting minecraft traffic?
15:05 < piracetam> to place additional overhead on clients and (especially) servers?
15:05 < dav1d> one cannot steal sessions
15:06 < piracetam> why not encrypt only session part then
15:06 < piracetam> um, or what did you mean by session
15:06 < piracetam> i thought about minecraft.net auth
15:06 < piracetam> you mean a mitm attack?
15:07 < piracetam> any benchmarks on minecraft's ssl overhead, btw?
15:08 < dav1d> in older versions you could hijack sessions easily with either a proxy or only the session key
15:08 < dav1d> proxy beeing easier
15:08 < dav1d> hey admin wanna join my server
15:08 < dav1d> when he connects the proxy manipulates the data so you auth on the admins server
15:09 < piracetam> right
15:09 < piracetam> what about overhead? how much difference does encryption make?
15:09 < dav1d> no idea
15:10 < dav1d> md_5 should know more 
15:45 <+sadimusi> piracetam: that heavily depends on the implementation and hardware used
15:46 < piracetam> sadimusi: a common desktop PC
15:46 <+sadimusi> that doesn't really narrow it down
15:48 <+sadimusi> if you can use aes-ni there is very little overhead
15:48 <+sadimusi> an entirely java based implementation on the other hand would slow things down significantly
15:56 < piracetam> java always slows things down, doesn't it
16:03 < Yoshi2> a good hardware implementation of AES will always be faster than a software implementation
16:29 < AnotherOne|2> yo i have a question
16:29 < AnotherOne|2> http://wiki.vg/Protocol#Map_Chunk_Bulk_.280x38.29
16:30 < AnotherOne|2> does metadata follow every block or is it an array?
16:30 <+sadimusi> it's an array
16:34 < AnotherOne|2> good
16:35 < tehme> fixing special packets is fun
17:17 < tehme> fucking metadata
18:20 < tehme> even with autogeneration implementing protocol is fucking ton of work
18:21 <+sadimusi> then you don't use a cool enough protocol markup :P
18:22 < tehme> yep
18:22 <+sadimusi> https://gist.github.com/sadimusi/6025899 < this took me maybe half an hour to write
18:23 <+sadimusi> (the parser and the small improvements took way more time of course)
18:23 < Yoshi2> I once tried using burger for auto-updating the protocol parser on my old client, but there were too many special cases for it to work effectively
18:24 < tehme> heh
18:24 <+sadimusi> there are so few changes that an automated system doesn't really make sense imho
18:24 < tehme> i only need to implement special structures and classes
18:24 < tehme> but anyway it is boring
18:24 < shoghicp> The other case is that everything changes in an unexpected way ;)
18:25 <+sadimusi> https://twitter.com/_grum/status/373028865695682560 < can't wait to rewrite burger -.-
18:25 < shoghicp> xD
18:25 < shoghicp> I just implemented the -c argument into PocketBurger
18:26 < tehme> omfg
18:26 < tehme> he is working!
18:26 < Yoshi2> oh, maybe utf-8 support is finally coming :D
18:26 < shoghicp> we have utf-8 on MCPE ;)
18:26 < tehme> i thought they only eaten cakes and did nothing in mojang
18:26 < shoghicp> instead of utf-16
18:28 < Drainedsoul> why would anyone use UTF-16 I just don't understand the logic...
18:28 <+sadimusi> because it's the default
18:29 <+sadimusi> but you could ask why java uses it in the first place
18:29 < Drainedsoul> is that a rhetorical question or do you actually want to know why Java uses it
18:29 < Drainedsoul> ?
18:29 < Drainedsoul> ; )
18:29 < tehme> enlighten us
18:29 < Yoshi2> I genuinely want to know why Java uses it
18:30 < Drainedsoul> when Java was first created Unicode had not been extended past the BMP yet, so it was a 16-bit -- 65536 code point -- character set
18:30 < Drainedsoul> so representing it as a single 16-bit code unit made sense
18:30 < Drainedsoul> when it was extended to the other 15 planes, UTF-16 was conceived as a way to allow it to continue to be represented as 16-bits, and Java (and .NET) continued using 16-bits -- and therefore UTF-16
18:31 < Grum> utf16 is most definately not 16bits
18:31 < Drainedsoul> 16-bit code units, variable-length encoding
18:31 < Drainedsoul> 1 or 2 code units per code point
18:33 < tehme> sup grum
18:33 < Grum> the sky
18:33 < tehme> do you eat cakes in mojang?
18:33 <+sadimusi> Grum: minecraft seems to be having troubles displaying anything outside of the BMP
18:34 < Grum> sadimusi: java has you mean?
18:34 <+sadimusi> no
18:34 < Grum> tehme: not really, more fika than cake
18:34 < tehme> heh
18:35 <+sadimusi> Grum: I can send a MUSICAL SYMBOL G CLEF (𝄞) in the chat without problems and it even gets displayed in the server console
18:35 <+sadimusi> Grum: but the client doesn't display it
18:36 < Grum> sadimusi: so? :/
18:36 <+sadimusi> Grum: so I can't send emoji's 😝
18:36 < Grum> OHNOES fuck that
18:36 <+sadimusi> :D
18:36 <+sadimusi> I'm sure there are better uses for it
18:36 < Grum> not likely ever going to care for that
18:37 <+sadimusi> I would have been surprised if you did
18:37 <+sadimusi> I don't really care either, just noticed it recently
18:38 < Grum> tbh nothing really needs it iirc?
18:38 < Drainedsoul> there's some CJK outside the BMP iirc
18:40 < Grum> tbh, make a language with less characters already? seriously? :D
19:11 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: because utf-16 supports most, and for everything else, which doesn't work "we don't care"
19:11 < dav1d> context
19:11 < dav1d> [18:28] <Drainedsoul> why would anyone use UTF-16 I just don't understand the logic...
19:12 < dav1d> (UCS-2 that is)
19:51 < Drainedsoul> well Minecraft uses UTF-16 so UCS-2 isn't really relevant
20:57 < shoghicp> sadimusi: ping
21:02 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: often UTF-16 is misused as UCS-2
21:07 < shoghicp> ^ forget my ping
21:11 < Drainedsoul> which doesn't mean that not handling things outside the BMP, or handling them incorrectly, is excusable
21:21 < tehme> i have a question
21:21 < tehme> http://pastebin.com/wq8eTmTb
21:21 < tehme> did i get object data deserialization right?
21:22 < tehme> m_code and val1..val3 are int32
21:22 < tehme> http://wiki.vg/Object_Data
21:23 < tehme> FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
21:23 < tehme> solved
22:25 < tehme> yo people
22:25 < tehme> is chat message translated as a string, e.g. with size before string?
22:46 < nyuszika7h> how could I make a honeypot server which kicks people with a specific message on joining?
22:46 < nyuszika7h> looking for a simple and lightweight solution if possible
22:51 < barneygale> nyuszika7h: old code: https://gist.github.com/barneygale/5051791
22:52 < barneygale> will need to be slightly updated for newer protocol versions
22:59 < nyuszika7h> thanks
23:09 < tehme> oh lol python
23:09 < tehme> does it work fast enough?
23:14 < Morrolan> I dare you to write a server in any language which is not fast enough to immediately kick people when they join. :P
23:14 < mitch|mobile> Make one in Lua :D
23:15 < mitch|mobile> I might make a lua module for that using tehme's MC lib
23:23 <+md_5> piracetam in my application
23:23 <+md_5> encryption is around 10-20% of cpu usage
23:30 < shoghicp> So, now that I've completed PocketBurger
23:31 < shoghicp> could it be possible to do a site like b.wiki.vg for MCPE?
23:52 <+sadimusi> shoghicp: how about p.wiki.vg?
23:53 < shoghicp> :D
23:53 < wolfmitchell> tehme, whats the repo for yer lib again
23:53 < shoghicp> I've json and html files
23:53 < tehme> https://github.com/tehme/mcprotocol/
23:54 < tehme> it is broken now
23:54 < tehme> i'll upload a new one soon
23:54 < wolfmitchell> why?
23:54 < shoghicp> tehme: json on a .txt file
23:54 < tehme> some structures do not work
23:54 < wolfmitchell> tehme, o-o the last commit on it was 3 months ago
23:55 < tehme> i can give you lua tables
23:55 <+sadimusi> i'm surprised nobody posted the CoreText-crashing string in all irc channels yet :)
23:55 < shoghicp> I won't do it xD
23:55 < wolfmitchell> tehme, update le git
23:56 < tehme> not today:)
23:57 < tehme> i'll tell you when i'll finish
23:57 < shoghicp> sadimusi: ping me when it is ready ;)
23:58 <+sadimusi> shoghicp: I have to do it?
23:58 < shoghicp> hmm... I'll copy the b.wiki.vg thing then
23:59 < barneygale> tehme: easily fast enough.
23:59 < shoghicp> sadimusi: Then, I'll msg you the IP to point the domain soon
23:59 <+sadimusi> shoghicp: I can do it for you, but definitely not in the next few days
23:59 <+sadimusi> shoghicp: you can do that yourself on afraid.org
23:59 <+sadimusi> shoghicp: or at least you used to be able to
--- Day changed ven. août 30 2013
00:00 <+sadimusi> shoghicp: otherwise you have to contact Tk†ech 
00:00 < shoghicp> For p.wiki.vg
00:00 < shoghicp> ok :)
00:02 < shoghicp> I'll point it to burger.pocketmine.net while I set up it
00:04 < wolfmitchell> tehme, can you at least create a list of functions and what they will do so I can work on my MC server?
00:07 < tehme> http://rghost.ru/private/48461629/a37d06f2beef42d55cfc492a8cd95ae3
00:07 < tehme> happy debugging:)
00:09 < wolfmitchell> ack, y u no tar.gz >.<
00:09 < tehme> i dunno
00:15 < tehme> yo people
00:15 < tehme> i need help
00:16 < tehme> dump me some 2c please
00:19 <+sadimusi> in what format?
00:20 < tehme> i dont need it anymore
00:20 < tehme> fixed
00:33 < tehme> wolfmitchell: does it work?:D
00:33 < wolfmitchell> idk yet :D
00:35 < wolfmitchell> can't even sit at my computer for 5 minutes without my mom bugging me -_-
00:38 < tehme> lolololo
00:42 < tehme> well
00:42 < tehme> now i can receive almost all messages
00:43 < tehme> and im glad about this
01:23 < Drainedsoul> if there are no auto completes, should an empty 0xCB be sent, no packet, or does it not matter?
02:09 < tehme> just do not answer 
02:11 <+Zaneo> Hm?
02:15 < wolfmitchell> tehme, well...
02:15 < wolfmitchell> http://paste2.org/kN0HHnAG
02:20 < wolfmitchell> http://paste2.org/vB26mZje
02:28 < wolfmitchell> tehme, you can comment out line 110 of basemessage.hpp
02:28 < shoghicp> http://burger.pocketmine.net/
02:29 < wolfmitchell> the variable 'key' is unused
02:29 < shoghicp> supports url hashes, like http://burger.pocketmine.net/#0.7.4pre
02:29 < wolfmitchell> basemessage.hpp:110:11: warning: unused variable ‘key’ [-Wunused-variable]
02:29 < shoghicp> or http://burger.pocketmine.net/#0.6.1_0.7.4pre
02:44 < wolfmitchell> I feel like trying to write my own library
02:44 < wolfmitchell> lol
03:15 < tehme> wolfmitchell: i know
03:15 < tehme> let it be:)
03:16 < tehme> heh, try it
03:17 < tehme> oh lol
03:17 < tehme> errors errors errors
03:18 < shoghicp> TkTech: I would like to point http://burger.pocketmine.net/ to a wiki.vg subdomain, so it can work as b.wiki.bg for the Pocket Edition
03:18 < shoghicp> like p.wiki.vg
03:18 < shoghicp> Anyone knows his timezone?
03:20 < dexter0> He's in Canada, not sure where.
03:20 < shoghicp> he should be at least up
03:20 < shoghicp> thanks
03:21 < shoghicp> sadimusi: http://burger.pocketmine.net/ Your tools work with that too ;)
03:23 < shoghicp> I'll go to bed now
03:23 < shoghicp> #mcdevs never fills my log xD
03:28 < dx> 22:28 [FreeNode] CTCP TIME reply from TkTech: I'm not a clock you know.
03:28 < dx> lol
03:30 < dx> i want to get MCPE but my phone already had awful framerates with the old demo version
03:30 <+Zaneo> shoghicp, It's about 9:30 pm for him
03:30 <+Zaneo> Asumming he isn't out travelling the world
05:16 < Not-009> [FemtoCraft] fragmer * r116 2 files : Lava and Water can now spread over fire/snow.
05:16 < Not-009> [FemtoCraft] fragmer * r117 3 files : Moved CPE code under Networking
05:43 < Not-009> [FemtoCraft] fragmer * r118 4 files : Implementing snow "physics" (1/3): snow now falls to the ground (similar to sand/gravel), and does not stack.
06:04 < Not-009> [FemtoCraft] fragmer * r119 3 files : Implementing snow "physics" (2/3): fire, lava, and magma now melt snow, with a delay of 2 seconds.
06:26 < Not-009> [FemtoCraft] fragmer * r120 3 files : Implementing snow "physics" (3/3): Added snow-physics config line, and "/physics snow" command.
08:03 < Not-009> [FemtoCraft] fragmer * r121 2 files : Fixed snow physics sometimes triggering when off. Sand/gravel now fall through fire blocks.
08:06 < Not-009> [FemtoCraft] fragmer * r122 2 files : Sand/gravel now also fall through and displace snow.
08:21 < Not-009> [FemtoCraft] fragmer * r123 4 files : Added support for BlockPermissions CPE extension.
08:28 < Not-009> [FemtoCraft] fragmer * r124 4 files : Fixed first batch of SetBlockPermission packets not being sent, due to setting IsOp before negotiating CPE. Updated assembly versions.
08:55 < Yoshi2> Drainedsoul: I think no packet should be sent when there is nothing to be auto-completed
10:22 < shoghicp> back
10:34 < JohnVoiden> Hi
14:57 <+sadimusi> shoghicp: did you use BurgerVitrineServer or did you just write your own?
15:04 <+sadimusi> shoghicp: looking at the source answered that question
15:46 < shoghicp> sadimusi: Oh, is there a BurgerVitrineServer?
15:47 < shoghicp> o.O
15:47 <+sadimusi> yes, but it isn't really finished yet
15:47 < shoghicp> I used a simple script
15:47 < shoghicp> to recreate json & html files
15:47 < shoghicp> then, everything is loaded in an iframe
15:49 <+sadimusi> I'm handing in my bachelor's thesis this sunday, afterwards I might continue working on burger
15:49 < shoghicp> I've uni tests the next week xD
15:49 < shoghicp> ok
15:49 <+sadimusi> eventually it would be nice to have both versions on the same site
15:49 < shoghicp> I've it set up on a VPS, and only html files are there
15:50 < shoghicp> If TkTech points b.wiki.vg at it, it will work
15:50 < shoghicp> the only thing is getting the .asm files
15:50 < TkTech> sadimusi: Good luck!
15:50 <+sadimusi> TkTech: thanks
15:51 < shoghicp> p.wiki.vg*
15:51 < TkTech> shoghicp: p.wiki.vg has been CNAME'd since last night
15:51 < shoghicp> :D
15:51 <+sadimusi> shoghicp: BurgerVitrineServer generates all the resources automatically and should also download new releases on its own. as far as I understand that won't be possible with the pocket version 
15:51 < shoghicp> works
15:51 < shoghicp> sadimusi: I've to get the asm files manually
15:52 < shoghicp> but everything else is done by an script
15:52 <+sadimusi> what are you using to get the .asm files?
15:52 < shoghicp> IDA output
15:52 < shoghicp> It is specified in the Readme
15:52 < shoghicp> I haven't tryed with other tools yet
15:52 < shoghicp> tried*
15:53 <+sadimusi> I'll have to look into idascript
15:55 < shoghicp> ida in batch mode produces asm output
15:55 < shoghicp> but since you have to get the .so from the apk
15:55 < shoghicp> I decided to do it manually
15:56 < shoghicp> 30 seconds doesn't matter
15:56 <+sadimusi> iirc the apk is just a zip
15:56 < shoghicp> I know
16:26 < nyuszika7h> is it just me or Mojang's Yggdrasil protocol is a bit inconsistent?
16:26 < nyuszika7h> e.g. Method Not Allowed and Not Found vs. ForbiddenOperationException and IllegalArgumentException
16:28 < Flemmard> "a bit" :>
16:28 <+sadimusi> the ForbiddenOperationException is a bit weird
16:28 <+sadimusi> the rest makes kind of sense
16:28 <+sadimusi> and I assume ForbiddenOperationException is just the default error of restlet
17:40 < TkTech> shoghicp: It's ARM right?
17:40 < TkTech> shoghicp: Which ARM, ARM7?
17:40 < shoghicp> ARMv7, yeah
17:42 < TkTech> shoghicp: http://darm.re/
17:42 < TkTech> shoghicp: #darm
17:42 < shoghicp> Saw that yesterday
17:43 < TkTech> I've actually been in that channel for months, some guys I know from years back.
17:43 < shoghicp> I'll check it after my tests
19:14 < JohnVoiden> How I can restart servers[no crash or oom][using stops] automatically?
19:27 <+sadimusi> JohnVoiden: run them from some kind of supervisor
19:29 < JohnVoiden> Thx :>
19:54 < Not-009> [fCraft] fragmer * r2183 2 files : Fixed an occasional ArgumentNullException in IRC thread.
19:58 < Not-009> [fCraft] fragmer * r2184 12 files : Fixed IRC crashes not being submitted to the crash reporter. Updated assembly versions to 0.643
--- Day changed sam. août 31 2013
00:48 < Not-009> [fCraft] fragmer * r2185 13 files : Merged fixes r2183-2184 from branch-0.60x
00:49 < Not-009> [fCraft] fragmer * r2186 2 files : Fixed MapRaw documentation.
01:28 < Not-009> [FemtoCraft] fragmer * r125 2 files : Updated JetBrains.Annotations to ReSharper 8.0's implementation
03:54 < Snoutmol> i already know some java but how do i start with the modding of the minecraft
04:24 < wolfmitchell> yes yes, ask for help and leave two minutes later
04:27 < Not-009> [FemtoCraft] fragmer * r126 20 files : Code cleanup and annotation/documentation pass.
04:35 < dx> wolfmitchell: well he was clueless and this was the wrong channel, nothing of value was lost
04:35 < wolfmitchell> good point
05:53 < Not-009> [fCraft] fragmer * r2187 22 files : Switching to .NET 4.0 (take two)
06:03 < Not-009> [fCraft] fragmer * r2188 5 files : Switched from using homebrew ConcurrentQueue to System.Collections.Concurrent.ConcurrentQueue
06:45 < Not-009> [fCraft] fragmer * r2189 4 files : Switched from using homebrew BlockingQueue to System.Collections.Concurrent.BlockingCollection
08:21 < Drainedsoul> does anyone know if minecraft.net allows whitespace in usernames?
08:39 < Not-009> [fCraft] fragmer * r2190 2 files : Improved resolution of fCraft's scheduler, for non-background tasks.
08:40 < tehme> yo
08:41 < tehme> when is order y/stance in 0x0D?
08:41 < tehme> and when is stance/y?
08:41 < tehme> whoops
08:41 < tehme> i see now
09:24 < Not-009> [fCraft] fragmer * r2191 210 files : Updated copyright notices, README and LICENSE files, and credits.
09:27 < Not-009> [fCraft] fragmer * r2192 2 files : Included changelog/readme/license in list of protected filenames. Added license file to UpdateBuilder's list.
09:31 < Not-009> [fCraft] fragmer * r2193 11 files : Updated assembly and updater version numbers.
09:33 < Not-009> [fCraft] fragmer * r2194 2 files : Upgraded Doxyfile to 1.8.4 format
11:03 < Nico90> Hello
11:03 < tehme> yo
11:05 < Nico90> Can I make a question about handshake ?:)
11:05 < shoghicp> Just ask ;)
11:07 < Nico90> why 10bytes  +lengh string ? I see byte (1 )  + int ( 4 byte) + string  + string 
11:08 < shoghicp> packet id?
11:08 < shoghicp> 0x02?
11:08 < Nico90> yes sry
11:10 < shoghicp> 0x02 51 0x0005 Notch 0x09 localhost 0x000063dd
11:10 < shoghicp> for the example packet
11:10 < shoghicp> the packet id
11:10 < shoghicp> the protocol (byte)
11:10 < shoghicp> username (short with the length + string)
11:10 < shoghicp> host (short with the length + string)
11:10 < shoghicp> int
11:23 < Nico90> 0x02 = ID (1 byte) , 51= protocol Version ( 1 byte) , 0x0005 = username (notch) 2byte  , 0x09 = username's string example (lenght variable), 0x000063dd =localhost(2byte)+string example  , server port (4 byte =int)   -> 10 byte + lengh?right?
11:23 < shoghicp> yes
11:23 < shoghicp> should work
11:24 < shoghicp> tried it?
11:24 < Nico90> ...I will try it,im just reading theory :)
11:25 < Nico90> thanks
11:25 < shoghicp> :)
11:31 < Nico90> Immm it's wrong 0x0005 and 0x000063dd aren't fixed value
11:32 < shoghicp> that is the length / port
11:39 < Nico90> ah 0x000063dd = comunication port 25565 ok  ,  0x0005 is the notch's length ?
11:39 < shoghicp> yep
11:52 < Nico90> so i can rewrite my previous statement and try it : 0x02 = ID(1byte), 51=protocol Version(1byte), 0x0005 notch's length(2byte), 0x09=notch's string example(variable length), 0x0006 localhost's length(2byte), 0x3 localhost's example(variable length), 0x000063dd = port (4byte fixed length)
11:53 < Nico90> 10 bytes + length of strings
12:00 < shoghicp> yep
12:03 < Not-009> [fCraft] fragmer * r2195 10 files : Sporadic documentation improvements, particularly in Packet.cs
12:43 < Not-009> [fCraft] fragmer * r2196 4 files : Further sporadic documentation improvements, particularly in Player.cs
13:09 < Not-009> [fCraft] fragmer * r2197 20 files : Cleaning up some unused/obsolete code.
14:03 < shoghicp> Now MCPE supports saving an external server list
15:21 < Not-009> [Charge] Wallbraker pushed 3 commits to master [+1/-0/±2] http://git.io/_cOvGA
15:21 < Not-009> [Charge] Wallbraker 1ad0b44 - gfx: Add shader class and compiler
15:21 < Not-009> [Charge] Wallbraker aacc8f0 - charge: Update test
15:21 < Not-009> [Charge] Wallbraker 0e83c94 - charge: Fiddle with GNUmakefile
17:44 < Nico90> hello
17:44 <+sadimusi> o/
17:50 < iBotPeaches> \o
17:52 < Nico90> Can you help me about these blank string received from client between protocol version and username fields and between username and ip field? screenshot http://oi40.tinypic.com/25f7ply.jpg   :)))
17:53 <+sadimusi> are you even parsing the packet?
17:55 < Nico90> just created a socket to receive any byte from client ( SOCK_STREAM)
17:56 <+sadimusi> and then you just print it?
17:56 < Nico90> yes every character received
17:57 <+sadimusi> well, you have to extract the individual fields somehow
17:57 <+sadimusi> what language are you using?
17:57 < Nico90> C language
17:58 <+sadimusi> I can't really help you with C, but I think there are a few minecraft libraries around
18:01 <+sadimusi> looks like they're all a bit outdated though https://github.com/deoxxa/libmcnet
18:02 < Nico90> Does the client send even the length? or it is just a long stream and I have to extract data. Ok for library .I was trying to learn something about protocol. thx for link
18:02 <+sadimusi> you just get packet after packet
18:03 <+sadimusi> you have to know every packet definition or you won't know where the packet boundary is…
18:03 <+sadimusi> I assume you already read http://wiki.vg/Protocol
18:03 <+sadimusi> and http://wiki.vg/Data_types
18:04 <+sadimusi> and to make things a bit more complex http://wiki.vg/Protocol_Encryption :D
18:04 < Nico90> not last link:)
18:06 <+sadimusi> if you're not really experienced in your language of choice I really don't recommend writing a minecraft protocol library yourself
18:07 < Nico90> what language are you using?
18:07 < Nico90> just courious
18:08 <+sadimusi> mostly python
18:35 < Drainedsoul> what is the name of "pink" now in chat?  I send "pink" as a colour and the client crashes out on me saying that's not a known colour
18:35 < tehme> python is heretical
18:35 < tehme> "rosy"? lol
18:37 < Drainedsoul> Nico0[: Why are you choosing to write a new project in C as opposed to C++?
18:37 < Drainedsoul> *Nico90
18:44 < Nico90>  I'm studying at school
18:45 < mcat> Ho
18:45 < mcat> Hi*
18:45 < tehme> yo
18:45 < tehme> wazzup
18:45 < mcat> I have a problem with mark2
18:47 < mcat> Is there any feature that allow me to automatically restart  a server when it stops automatically?
18:48 < Drainedsoul> I really doubt that you need to know as much C as you'd need to know to parse the MC protocol to succeed at whatever you're doing in school
18:51 < Nico90> I would like learn this proto just for hobby
18:53 < Nico90> I dont understand if client send me the string length or i have to check blank space to trim every data.  it is ok this ? http://pastebin.com/1YLpHc8E
18:54 < Nico90> packet ID 0x02 - handshake
18:55 < tehme> Drainedsoul: if you know c bad, this results in if(result == true) return true; else return false;
18:55 < mcat> Anyone?
18:55 < tehme> mcat: idk sorry
18:56 < Drainedsoul> The client sends you the string length.  Every string is a UTF-16BE string, prefixed with its length (in code units) as a big-endian 16-bit signed integer
18:57 < Drainedsoul> this is spelled out pretty explicitly here: http://wiki.vg/Data_types
19:31 < mcat> Hello again
19:31 < mcat> Where should i put the script.txt file?
19:32 < mcat> on mark2
19:59 < barneygale> mcat: "scripts.txt" with an "s". needs to go in the same directory as your server jar
20:11 < mcat> Thanks but i didn't get it working
20:11 < mcat> I did something like this:
20:11 < mcat> @serverstop   ~restart
20:12 < mcat> To automatically start the server when it closes
20:12 < mcat> But it dont work
20:22 < mcat> No idea?
20:32 < Drainedsoul> http://i.imgur.com/d6Kpxot.png isn't that the truth
20:33 < Yoshi2> gesalzte Quallen
20:34 < Yoshi2> wrong channel >.<
20:40 < pdelvo> :D
--- Day changed dim. sept. 01 2013
07:11 < tehme> yo sup
07:11 < tehme> can anyone explain me conception of 20 ticks per second?
07:16 < tehme> does it mean i need to make loop: get start time; take messages; process messages; sleep (50 - start time); go to begin; ?
07:43 < Drainedsoul> I don't think it means that YOU need to do anything, it's just what the vanilla server does
08:10 < Not-009> [fCraft] fragmer * r2198 2 files : Added basic CPE opcode/packet information.
08:26 < Not-009> [fCraft] fragmer * r2199 4 files : Added an enumeration of CPE extensions.
08:49 < Not-009> [fCraft] fragmer * r2200 2 files : Added methods for creating all the CPE packets, and EnvVariable enumeration.
09:17 <+md_5-> tehme yup, thats basically how it works
09:17 <+md_5-> your server doesnt even need to have ticks though
09:19 < Not-009> [fCraft] fragmer * r2201 2 files : Added CPE negotiation (and cleaned up LoginSequence code while I was at it).
13:49 < Not-009> [FemtoCraft] fragmer * r127 7 files : Renamed SpiderWeb to Rope block, per CPE spec change. CobbleSteps now stack into Cobble.
14:13 < tehme> i am about a client
14:13 <+sadimusi> that sentence does not make sense
14:23 <+clonejo> did you mean: "i am above a client"?
14:42 < tehme> no
14:43 < tehme> i was talking about 20 TPS on client
14:44 <+sadimusi> you don't really need ticks on the client
14:44 < tehme> i do to make things simple
14:45 < tehme> something like SDL main loop
14:45 < Not-009> [FemtoCraft] fragmer * r128 6 files : 1.28 release; updated fCraft license; renamed classic-protocol-extension config key to protocol-extension; updated web page.
15:02 < Yoshi2> it really depends on your goals whether keeping close to these 20 ticks per second makes things more simple
15:09 < tehme> well, at least there is 0x0D that i need to send 20 times per second
15:10 < tehme> and i do not want to make a thread for this
15:17 < Yoshi2> you don't need a thread, you just need to check whether 1/20th of a second has passed since the last 0x0D you sent
15:18 <+sadimusi> I would send it more often anway, you can eat and heal much faster ;)
15:23 < tehme> oh
15:23 < tehme> sadimusi: really? O_O
15:24 <+sadimusi> I have a video of it somewhere
15:24 <+sadimusi> here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ywe_qeIEw0
15:27 < tehme> oh lol
15:29 < tehme> can server ban for this?
15:33 <+sadimusi> a server can ban for anything
15:33 <+sadimusi> but I'm not sure if NoCheat and friends protect against it
19:39 < TkTech> fragmer: You've been busy the last couple of day.
19:39 < TkTech> *s. I'm assuming you're F.
19:44 < Not-009> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/VP-cLg
19:44 < Not-009> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn f83db2d - Fix typo in README
20:22 < tehme> i love servers run by schoolboys
20:23 < tehme> there are no rules and i know the game better than they:D
22:19 <+fragmer> TkTech, indeed
--- Day changed lun. sept. 02 2013
00:06 < tehme> ololololololo
00:07 < tehme> i lured wither into spawn building
00:07 < tehme> waiting for noobs' screams
00:12 <+sadimusi> irgendwie hesch du mit de links chlei gfailet, hesch zwar hyperref importiert aber kei einzigi \url…
00:12 <+sadimusi> oh sorry, completely wrong program o.O
00:13 <+sadimusi> *application
00:19 < tehme> omfg
00:19 <+sadimusi> ?
00:20 < tehme> suddenly german
00:20 <+sadimusi> that's not even really german
00:20 < tehme> what is this?
00:20 <+sadimusi> swiss german
00:21 <+sadimusi> to be more specific, a dialect spoken in Berne
00:22 < tehme> heh
00:22 < tehme> google translate fails on this phrase
00:23 <+sadimusi> obviously
00:23 <+sadimusi> most germans don't understand as at all
00:24 < tehme> lol
00:25 <+sadimusi> just take the word "chlei" from that sentence, it would be "ein bisschen" in german
00:25 < tehme> like russians don't understand ukrainian-russian dialect
00:25 <+sadimusi> which means "a little"
00:25 <+sadimusi> yeah
00:25 < tehme> of our region
00:26 < tehme> and nooooow is BOOST RAPE TIME
00:27 < dexter0> tehme: what are you building?  Client or Server?
00:27 < tehme> sadimusi: do you use that fast food cheat in game?
00:27 < tehme> client
00:27 <+sadimusi> tehme: I rarely play and if I do on my own server
00:28 <+sadimusi> tehme: so there's no point in cheating
00:28 < dexter0> tehme: will you be adding game graphics and is it open src?
00:28 < tehme> dexter0: it will be open source:) i hope i will add graphics
00:29 < tehme> for now it is just protocol
00:29 < dexter0> c++?
00:29 < tehme> and attempts to make message callbacks
00:29 < tehme> yes
00:29 < tehme> instead of switch
00:31 < tehme> hey sadimusi, i have a question for you
00:32 <+sadimusi> ask away
00:33 < tehme> do you like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1MvfqDReVs
00:33 < tehme> i guess no, because you understand more than me:D
00:34 <+sadimusi> the times I listened to industrial metal are long gone
00:34 < tehme> too old?:)
00:35 <+sadimusi> I guess so
00:35 < tehme> how old?
00:35 <+sadimusi> the text seems to be loosely based on the children's tale "Hänsel und Gretel" but I didn't really listen to the whole thing
00:35 <+sadimusi> 22
00:36 < tehme> not so old
00:37 <+sadimusi> no, but I listen to very different music anyway
00:37 < tehme> for example?
00:38  * sadimusi picks first item from his spotify inbox
00:38 <+sadimusi> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGksXB6a6s0
00:39 <+sadimusi> I listen to a lot of deep house, nu disco, electro, electro swing and jazz
00:39 <+sadimusi> and techno
00:40 < tehme> woob woob
00:41 < tehme> do you like heresy?
00:42 <+sadimusi> never heard of them/him/her
00:42 < tehme> Lucifer, the Light Bearer, urges followers to enjoy life to the full, to value success in human terms, to be gentle and kind and loving, and to live in peace and harmony with one another.
00:42 < tehme> like this
00:42 <+sadimusi> ah, I thought you were referring to an artist :D
00:42 < tehme> i want to see some fanatic's face after reading this:D
00:43 <+sadimusi> I'm not really religious so I don't care
00:43 < tehme> heh
00:45 < tehme> day before yesterday i travelled home by train, and a fucking book seller tried to sell "365 prayers for every day"
00:45 < tehme> i dont know what is situation about this in your country, but in mine it is sad and facepalm
00:46 < tehme> leap year DIVINE EXCEPTION
00:46 < tehme> sorry
00:47 <+sadimusi> since I moved to Zurich I regularly encounter mormon missionaries on public transportation, but so far they've all been very friendly and respected my believes
00:49 <+sadimusi> switzerland isn't a very religious country anyway
00:50 < tehme> mormons... aren't they those guys who allow polygyny?
00:50 <+sadimusi> don't think so
00:50 < tehme> well my country is not religious too
00:51 < tehme> but many people treat religion as magic
00:51 < tehme> they need to be beaten by Bible
00:51 <+sadimusi> for us it's more a tradition
00:52 <+sadimusi> most people still attend special religious ceremonies such as the confirmation (kind of a rite of passage)
00:54 <+sadimusi> but I'm probably going to quit my church as soon as I have to pay taxes for them :D 
00:54 < jast> I quit a few years earlier, to avoid forgetting about it or doing it too late :)
00:55 <+sadimusi> I probably should do that as well
00:56 <+sadimusi> the only real downside is that the church won't hold a funeral service for you, but that's sombody else's problem :D
02:46 < tehme> fucking hell
02:47 < tehme> i love c++
02:47 < tehme> so, let's check sadimusi's cheat
02:54 < tehme> hey sadimusi, if i send more than 20 position packets a second, does food decrease quicker too?
02:55 <+sadimusi> it actually might
02:55 <+sadimusi> just try it out
02:55 <+sadimusi> I only send them while eating or healing
02:58 < tehme> but fucking yeah
02:58 < tehme> it heals instantly on 40 packets per sec
02:59 < tehme> so i can adjust it a bit
02:59 < tehme> and become IMMORTAL KILLAH
03:00 <+sadimusi> you still need a lot of food
03:00 < tehme> ololo
03:00 <+sadimusi> which isn't really a problem 
03:00 < tehme> zombie tries to attack tester character
03:00 < tehme> and flies away
03:01 <+sadimusi> try to stand near a cactus while spamming the packets ;)
03:01 <+sadimusi> (spoiler: insta death)
03:01 < tehme> lawl
03:01 < tehme> can i use it against other player?
03:01 <+sadimusi> no
03:02 < tehme> and now...
03:03 < tehme> time to eat and sleep
03:03 < tehme> good night:)
03:03 <+sadimusi> good night
03:45 < stephenmac7> I was wondering if anyone was interested in contributing to a project I'm working on: http://mml.stephenmac.com/
03:46 < stephenmac7> I'm in need of a designer most
04:04 < Drainedsoul> why do you love C++?
04:05 < stephenmac7> Drainedsoul: It might be a good idea to define who you're talking to
04:05 <+sadimusi> he likes cryptic special characters
04:05 < Drainedsoul> the person who said "fucking hell [...] i love c++"
04:05 < Drainedsoul> which cryptic special characters does C++ have?
04:05 <+sadimusi> all of them?
04:06 < Drainedsoul> how so?
04:06 <+sadimusi> it's been a while since I touched C++, but to me it seemed like C already used all the "normal" characters, so C++ used what was left
04:06 <+sadimusi> kind of like perl
04:07 <+sadimusi> iirc "::", "&" and "~" are all part of the syntax
04:07 < Drainedsoul> ~ and & are part of C's syntax
04:07 < Drainedsoul> bitwise NOT and bitwise AND, respectively
04:08 <+sadimusi> ah right
04:08 < Drainedsoul> C++ just further overloads them, ~ designates a constructor, & means reference to named value, && means reference to unnamed value
04:08 < Drainedsoul> *destructor
04:09 <+sadimusi> I never really got into C++ apart from a few exercises in a computer architecture class
04:09 < Drainedsoul> ah well, that's a shame
04:10 < Drainedsoul> C++ is a yawning abyss waiting to swallow all
04:10 <+sadimusi> :D
04:10 <+sadimusi> who knows what I'll do for a living in a few years, it might include C++…
04:10 < Drainedsoul> I love it.  It's got this ridiculous learning curve, but once you've learnt it there's a certainly effortless joy to doing anything that you can't replicate with other languages
04:11 <+sadimusi> well I'm certain there are also things you can do in other languages which you can't in C++
04:12 < Drainedsoul> I can't think of any.  I've never been writing C++ and thought "this would be easier in X language", but I've certainly thought the reverse
04:12 < Drainedsoul> most of the C++ issues revolve around libraries that aren't part of STD
04:13 <+sadimusi> doesn't C++ have pretty poor reflection capabilities?
04:14 < Drainedsoul> well that really depends.  "reflection" encompasses a wide range of problems, which specific one are you referring to
04:15 <+sadimusi> there are many things I regularly use in python applications
04:15 < Drainedsoul> such as?
04:15 <+sadimusi> for example dynamic creation of classes
04:15 < Drainedsoul> what problem does that solve
04:16 <+sadimusi> it could for example be used to generate a minecraft protocol implementation
04:16 < Drainedsoul> okay
04:16 <+sadimusi> it could generate the packet classes from a json for example
04:16 <+sadimusi> I guess you could do it at compile time with templates or something
04:17 < Drainedsoul> that's how I parse the MC protocol, is with templates, but dynamic creation of classes in C++ can also be handled with template/memory magic
04:17 < Drainedsoul> my NBT implementation leverages unrestricted unions
04:17 <+sadimusi> what about monkey patching?
04:18 < Drainedsoul> that's not really a language issue, it's a runtime/operating system issue.  A way to solve it is to mark pages of memory writable, take the address of a function, and write assembly to its location
04:19 <+sadimusi> sonds sketchy
04:19 <+sadimusi> *sounds
04:19 < Drainedsoul> I think most C/C++ memory analysis tools use it
04:19 < Drainedsoul> I want to say Valgrind does, but I'm not 100% sure on that
04:19 < zml> you can do anything if you just manually modify regions of memory
04:20 <+sadimusi> I guess you can do most things in C++, but I still prefer python since these things are actually pretty easy to implement
04:21 < Drainedsoul> I can't think of any problems I'd solve with monkey patching though.  That sounds like an instance where you didn't write X piece of code and need to do Y to it, which is always sketchy
04:22 <+sadimusi> monkey patching is useful if you have a library X which uses another library Y and you want to make X use Z instead
04:22 <+sadimusi> often used example is replacing the socket module
04:23 < Drainedsoul> yeah just sounds sketchy to me.  A solution that could be more easily solved by just recompiling X against Z
04:23 < Drainedsoul> alternately you could replace Y with a compatibility wrapper for Z
04:23 <+sadimusi> X and Y are installed independently of your application
04:24 <+sadimusi> might even be part of the standard library as is the case with the socket module
04:24 <+sadimusi> and Y might be urllib
04:25 < Drainedsoul> you could always supply modified versions of them, unless they're not open source in which case you're spiralling more away from languages and more towards licensing
04:26 < Drainedsoul> I debated doing that with libmysqlclient
04:26 <+sadimusi> the beauty of monkey patching is that once you replace the socket module *ever* other library will use your replacement instead
04:27 <+sadimusi> *every
04:27 < Drainedsoul> well again, this sounds like a runtime issue
04:27 < Drainedsoul> I know on Windows you can solve it by getting Z.dll (named Y.dll) to load before X.dll, and then the OS won't try and load Y.dll because it's already in memory
04:28 <+sadimusi> another beautiful thing about monkey patching is that whenever it doesn't work there's almost no way to figure out why :D
04:28 < Drainedsoul> well that's the case with most library issues
04:29 < Drainedsoul> I had a real head scratcher with zlib until I figured out that I needed to just recompile it to get it to work with x64 binaries
04:29 < Drainedsoul> I don't know why everyone is so stuck in the past with their 32-bit binaries
06:52 < TkTech> Drainedsoul: There are many scenarios where 64-bit is both unnecessary and harmful.
06:58 < Drainedsoul> are you talking about 64-bit width integers, or just the idea of targeting x86-64 rather than x86?
06:59 < TkTech> Many older high-performance applications noticed dramatic hits (such as many databases) when they started moving legacy code to x86-64.
07:00 < TkTech> Pointer-heavy applications (like in-memory B+ trees) suddenly used twice the memory.
07:01 < TkTech> Often when there was no real advantage for the use case to have the expanded range of memory, and no real benefit to 64-bit registers.
07:01 < Drainedsoul> well I would think a database -- at least in an enterprise setting -- would benefit massively from more than a 32-bit address range
07:02 < TkTech> Does it? If it's an accounting database designed to hold nothing more than simple numbers never exceeding the limits of a 32bit integer, is the expanded memory range worth the tradeoff of twice the overhead?
07:03 < TkTech> Many database now take advantage of the available memory, but my point was specifically that older software often doesn't.
07:04 < Drainedsoul> well if your accounting database is containing "simple numbers" that are described by a 32-bit integer you have other problems
07:04 < Drainedsoul> :P
07:04 < Drainedsoul> and the overhead is only wrt pointers, you can still opt to use 32-bit sized types on a 64-bit architecture, it's just that things like sizeof(void *) and sizeof(size_t) will be 8 instead of 4
07:05 < TkTech> Pointers are kind of a big deal in databases (and pretty much anything else.)
07:07 < Drainedsoul> clearly, but it's not a factor of 2 overhead -- since not all your data will be pointers or size_t -- and it unlocks that extra memory
07:08 < Drainedsoul> Are you considering the extra memory used to be a "performance hit", or an actual slowdown.
07:15 < TkTech> Actual slowdowns, typically things that you wouldn't have predicted as an issue moving to 64bit.
07:16 < TkTech> http://structureddata.org/2012/06/18/linux-6-transparent-huge-pages-and-hadoop-workloads/ as an example.
07:16 < TkTech> Which was an issue for awhile that made 64bit builds of Postgres and Hadoop useless.
07:20 < Drainedsoul> does this have to do with x86-64 specifically, or just x86-64 Linux
07:22 < TkTech> THP is only active for x86-64 applications on Linux, but the same issue exist(ed) in Windows. Any operation system that takes advantage of huge pages and tries to hide them from applications.
07:24 < TkTech> You never bother to think about page allocation normally, and why would you? They're so small on x86 under all conditions that any impact is negligible.
07:24 < TkTech> Then you get to x86_64 where they can be up to 1GiB.
07:25 < Drainedsoul> I would consider this to fall more under the umbrella of a malformed operating system feature as opposed to a defect in x86_64, personally.
07:26 < TkTech> I haven't claimed any "defects" in x86_64.
07:26 < wolfmitchell> there are no such things as bugs or defects
07:26 < Drainedsoul> The only expectation I would have of performance loss in x86_64 -- as opposed to x86 -- would be fitting fewer contiguous pointers (as in an array) in cache at once
07:26 < wolfmitchell> only horrible features
07:26 < TkTech> You made a comment about not understanding why "everyone is so stuck in the past with their 32-bit binaries".
07:27 < Drainedsoul> well I don't, especially since -- in the Windows world at least -- x86 is under the axe.  Correct me if I'm wrong but 32-bit versions of server 2008 R2 and 2012 don't exist?
07:27 < TkTech> I'm trying to point out to you that there are often factors people often do not think of that impact 64-bit applications in the real world.
07:27 < Drainedsoul> I don't doubt there are issues/factors.  But I still consider targeting x86 -- and only x86 -- to be an issue
07:28 < TkTech> The cache issue isn't really an issue, the generation leap from x86 to x86_64 usually saw a dramatic increase in L1 and L2 cache sizes.
07:28 < Drainedsoul> well you could always run x86 code on an x86_64 processor to fit those extra pointers in its big cache? :P  Unless alignof(void *) on 64-bit platforms is 8 even when running 32-bit code.
07:29 < Drainedsoul> which I doubt but haven't checked
07:31 < Drainedsoul> btw TkTech, is there any way to get a database dump of the wiki?
07:31 <+sadimusi> with all the password? :D
07:32 < Drainedsoul> sadimusi: wot
07:32 <+sadimusi> you can just use mediawiki's export feature
07:32 < Drainedsoul> okay cool
07:32 < Drainedsoul> I just meant the wiki, nothing else.  I just want to be able to make an off-line copy when I travel in December T_T
07:32 < TkTech> Drainedsoul: If you just want the content then that's what http://wiki.vg/Special:Export is for.
07:33 < TkTech> And the sister page http://wiki.vg/Special:Import
07:33 < TkTech> You can do that as often as you want, can import over existing history and merge it, and it will export the complete history of edits.
07:35 < Drainedsoul> cool, thanks
08:49 < pdelvo> lol. I just crashed my display driver with playing around with cuda
09:53 < tehme> sadimusi: if it exists, it can be emulated in c++ :)
11:06 < MaximoMinial> Hi guys, I have a question regarding the Set Window Items (0x68) packet, is it possible that the slot data array is empty, despite a positive number of slots (count). Does that mean that all the {count} slots are empty ?
11:10 < MaximoMinial> The last bunch of bytes I could read before end of stream is reached are 68 00 00 2D. It seems to be a 0x68 packet, with 45 slots, which seems fine, but there are no array. Maybe should I wait a bit before reading from the InputStream ?
11:17 < MaximoMinial> Ok i got it, It was a problem with my debug printing from stream method, I was testing if in.read()==-1 after casting to byte, which is the particular reason why read() returns an int
11:25 <+sadimusi> MaximoMinial: what are you building?
11:26 < MaximoMinial> A java event drived Minecraft Client library, mainly for educational purpose, not really to be released to the public
12:12 < tehme> MaximoMinial: maybe you were just disconnected before full packet came
12:15 < MaximoMinial> The issue was resolved as said. The problem was when I encountered a FF byte, it was interpreted as in.read() returning -1 because I was testing the returned value after casting it to byte, and not as a data byte
12:16 < MaximoMinial> in is the InputStream object returned by my java Socket object btw
12:16 <+sadimusi> if you're using streams directly, don't you want to wrap it in a DataInputStream?
12:21 < MaximoMinial> sadimusi: I should, because I was thinking of a InputStream that could throw Exception when reaching end of stream. I will have to re-write the few things I've already made, should not really be a big deal. Thanks for advice !
12:22 <+sadimusi> if you're on it, just use a BufferedInputStream as well ;)
12:22 <+sadimusi> new DataInputStream(new BufferedInputStream(stream)) works wonders
12:23 <+sadimusi> (is that a saying in english?)
12:29 < MaximoMinial> sadimusi: DataInputStream already inherits from the mark and reset methods that BufferedInputStream adds. Does using a BufferedInputStream add other advantages, like more performance ? (.. "works very well" if you're referring to 'wonder' as the name, "I wonder if .. works" if referring to 'wonders' as the verb ;))
12:30 <+sadimusi> I looked it up the german saying "wirkt wunder" translates well into english :)
12:31 <+sadimusi> I'm not actually sure what BufferedInputStream does, I've just seen it often in this setup
12:31 <+sadimusi> I'm pretty sure it isn't as good as I originally thought it was
13:04 < barneygale> http://www.reddit.com/r/admincraft/comments/1lkffk/mojang_auth_server_exploit/
13:05 <+sadimusi> this sounds more like a bug/backdoor in one of their plugins
13:06 < t89> theres been a bit of discussion about auth exploits lately
13:07 < t89> no-ones really sure if it's true yet though
13:08 <+sadimusi> if it is true I certainly hope it's just the implementation being faulty and not the design
13:09 < barneygale> Well
13:09 < barneygale> seems similar to this
13:09 < barneygale> http://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/wl0zy/psa_exploit_in_minecraft_login_server_hackers_can/
13:09 < barneygale> at least in symptoms
13:09 <+sadimusi> have you heard of anything from anywhere else than this forum?
13:09 < barneygale> It /could/ be a rogue plugin.
13:09 < barneygale> No.
13:10 < barneygale> t89 sounds like he has?
13:10 < t89> spigot channel on esper
13:11 <+sadimusi> the conclusions drawn by andrewkm are hardly based on any evidence
13:11 <+sadimusi> two accounts got compromised => "It allows you to login as anyone" & "It currently effects all servers worldwide"
13:11 < barneygale> There might be more evidence he's not letting on
13:12 < barneygale> lemme find him
13:18 < barneygale> Apparently it's real and they're working with mojang to fix it
13:19 < barneygale> 4 or 5 users on their server affected, 5 servers overall
13:19 < barneygale> Still might be a rogue bukkit plugin
13:21 < tehme> yo minecraft is not slowest game in my rating anymore
13:21 < tehme> nowit is fucking league of legends'
13:23 <+sadimusi> what kind of hardware do you have? lol even works on my old macbook flawlessly…
13:23 < t89> if they can logon as any account why would they do it as only mods on his server?
13:23 < t89> and not the owner for example
13:23 <+sadimusi> and why not bigger servers
13:25 <+sadimusi> ok, ecc is reasonably big
13:26 <+sadimusi> but still, the damage was minimal
13:33 < MaximoMinial> It's directly related to the new auth system right ?
14:09 < tehme> yo i need an advice. i have a thread that receives messages and creates sdl event on each packet. how can i make this thread-safe? i thought about copying all received into buffer, but messages are received too frequently, so this buffer will be always locked
14:28 < barneygale> MaximoMinial: if it's real, I'd imagine it's a bug introduced in new auth, yeah
14:54  * sadimusi finally turned in his bachelor's thesis :)
14:54 < jast> yay
14:54 < jast> best of luck with the results!
14:54 <+sadimusi> thanks
14:54 <+sadimusi> it probably turn out very well, but nobody will ever care about that
14:54 <+sadimusi> +won't
15:46 < tehme> how should i check if chat message is complete?
15:46 < tehme> by checking json?
16:06 < barneygale> sadimusi: fyi, this is the auth thing I was talking about earlier: http://www.reddit.com/r/admincraft/comments/1lkr30/auth_bug_in_two_recent_spigot_builds_upgrade_now/
16:08 < dx> "dem threads are expensive to make" haha
17:38 <+sadimusi> barneygale: looking at a diff of a diff is weird
17:40 < dx> sadimusi: this one is easier than most diffs of a diff, since he's adding the whole patch file
17:40 <+sadimusi> yeah
17:45 < barneygale> sadimusi, yeah haha
17:46 < pdelvo> I hate finding bugs in cuda. Its like: ErrorUnknown: This indicates that an unknown internal error has occurred. and you have no hint whats going wrong
18:08 < tehme> why do tou need cuda?
18:10 < pdelvo> its more like a "because i can" thingy. for fun :D
18:24 <+sadimusi> anybody wants a battlefield 3 key?
18:26 < shoghicp> I have 2
18:27 < shoghicp> sadimusi: Also, good luck with your thesis ;)
18:27 <+sadimusi> thanks
18:28 <+sadimusi> I've been trying a few games from this EA bundle; dead space was really disappointing
18:28 < tehme> FOOOCK YEAH
18:28 < shoghicp> Mirror Edge ;)
18:28 < tehme> i made first version with graphics
18:29 < tehme> it shows hp
18:29 <+sadimusi> shoghicp: I played that one for a bit longer, but it also got quite boring
18:29 < shoghicp> Bought it for that game, then gifted the Sims 3 key to my sister
18:29 < shoghicp> Then, she bought the bundle again xd
18:30 <+sadimusi> shoghicp: Always running away from stuff isn't really fun. and the combat system sucks pretty hard
18:30 <+sadimusi> i really enjoied mirror's edge on the iPad however
18:30 <+sadimusi> *enjoyed
18:31 < shoghicp> I have it on iOS too
18:31 < shoghicp> Anyway, great bundle to get users try Origin
18:34 < tehme> someone show me how you handle chat message
18:37 < pdelvo> It took me over a week to download bf3. I had to download it to my server, and grab it with ftb because origin always resetet my download progress from 98% to 94%
18:39 < shoghicp> My sister took down our home network xD
18:40 < pdelvo> and btw having a look at gpgpu is woth it. I speeded up a image processing tool of a friend by factor 130 :D
18:40 <+sadimusi> at least I can download most of the games within minutes, it lessens the disappointment if they turn out not to be very fun
19:03 < tehme> wtf
19:03 < tehme> sdl2 eats 30% of cpu when minimizes
19:07 < tehme> minimized*
19:29 < tehme> i modified 0x03
19:29 < tehme> added message table
21:44 < TkTech> pdelvo: The sole reason I won't install BF3 on my desktop is because of Origin. Awful, awful software, it's like Steam 6 years ago.
22:22 <+ammar2> I dunno, I installed origin and its not that bad
22:22 <+ammar2> I quit it when I don't need it, fire it up when I need play games
22:22 <+ammar2> steam is still my primary platform
22:22 <+ammar2> s/need/need to/
22:23 < Drainedsoul> I used Origin once and didn't have any issues, but that's hardly representative
22:39 < Maxime_> The most painful DRM is Game for Windows Live imo, a real painful crap to install. Took me 2h
23:01 < tehme> fock yeah i made callbacks
23:08 < tehme> yoyoyo anyone here?
23:08 < dav1d> I could kill steam right now
23:08 < dav1d> well now it's ok again
23:08 < tehme> what is minimal health value?
23:08 < dav1d> 0
23:08 < jast> :^D
23:08 < tehme> and after?:)
23:08 < dav1d> 0.5
23:09 < dav1d> iirc
23:09 < tehme> so 0.25 can not be?
23:09 < tehme> good
23:09 < dav1d> le me (reddit yay) playing cs:go, cs:go crashes, steam hangs, steam can't connect to the internet (chrome can), cs:go doesn't start, cs:go doesn't load, cs:go banned me for not rejoining the game in time
23:09 < dav1d> :(
23:10 < dav1d> tehme: someone can do 0.25 damage (protection, thorns etc.) but I forgot how that is managed
23:10 < dav1d> also, anyone using windows 8?
23:10 < dav1d> pdelvo: ^ what do you use
23:11 < dav1d> I think it's time to say good bye to my XP
23:11 < tehme> lol
23:11 < tehme> my dumb sister killed XP on my home PC
23:11 < dav1d> (only because I want to use my 8gb of ram, not somewhat above 3gb)
23:11 < tehme> PAE FTW
23:12 < dav1d> tehme: not sure what's so funny about XP, all my fathers computers are still running xp
23:12 < dav1d> for a reason
23:12 < tehme> will you buy windows 7?
23:12 < dav1d> the additional investments for security a worth it
23:12 < dav1d> tehme: or windows 8
23:12 < dav1d> I can buy win 8 for 8 €
23:12 < dav1d> students n' stuff
23:12 < tehme> starter?:D
23:12 < dav1d> so I would actually buy it :o
23:12 < dav1d> tehme: starter?
23:13 < dav1d> na, I think that's ultimate or something
23:13 < tehme> starter edition or something
23:13 < tehme> wow
23:13 < tehme> i remember our university gave visual studio starter for free
23:13 < dav1d> windows 8 pro
23:13 < tehme> now i am a proud pirate
23:13 < dav1d> yeah you can get visual studio for free as well
23:13 < dav1d> I think the fully blown version
23:14 < tehme> i really like that irony
23:14 < tehme> we had course of win api
23:14 < dav1d> "Version: MS Windows 8 x64 Pro"
23:14 < tehme> and visual studio starter can't resources
23:14 < dav1d>  Online8.00 EuroDVD5-Image, 3565 MB
23:15 < tehme> so, pirate or gtfo
23:15 < dav1d> or buy it, lol
23:15 < tehme> noway
23:16 < dav1d> "MS Visual Studio Professional 2012"
23:16 < dav1d> 4,5€
23:16 < dav1d> I think that's ok :P
23:16 < tehme> for you
23:16 < tehme> send me a license:)
23:16 < dav1d> https://iu.zid.tuwien.ac.at/StudentSoftware.onlineStore 
23:16 < dav1d> there you go
23:16 < dav1d> :P
23:17 < tehme> http://www.microsoft.com/visualstudio/redir/buy-2012
23:17 < tehme> there is Saint Pierre and Miquelonand no Ukraine
23:17 < tehme> and no Ukraine*
23:17 < dav1d> maybe I really should try that win8, maybe it's not that bad (as it looks)
23:18 < dav1d> tehme: lol, it costs 615€
23:18 < tehme> get ready to swear at yourself for killing lovely XP
23:18 < tehme> fick
23:18 < dav1d> tehme: but the ram
23:18 < dav1d> does PAE work on xp?
23:18 < tehme> idk
23:18 < dav1d> and if, how do I get it
23:18 < tehme> google?
23:19 < dav1d> I thought you already did that
23:19 < dav1d> oh wow that's easy
23:20 < dav1d> add /PAE to the boot.ini
23:20 < dav1d> msconfig ftw
23:20 < tehme> aaaand BSOD ON STARTUP
23:20 < dav1d> probably :P
23:21 < tehme> do you have anything to boot from and fix that?
23:21 < dav1d> I wonder if xp can even use more than 4GiB
23:21 < dav1d> tehme: yeah, my beloved arch
23:21 < jast> dav1d: not really
23:21 < jast> windows xp 64 bit edition could, I believe
23:21 < tehme> well, try it:)
23:21 < dav1d> jast: so PAE 4GiB and end?
23:21 < dav1d> I don't have a cd for that
23:21 < jast> but that essentially used the kernel from one of the server editions
23:21 < jast> 2003 or something
23:21 < dav1d> ah
23:21 < jast> not terribly compatible with normal xp
23:22 < dav1d> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/gg487503.aspx yep 4GiB
23:22 < tehme> dav1d: flash drive, unetbootin and ubuntu image
23:22 < dav1d> well +~1GiB better than nothing
23:22 < dav1d> tehme: why?
23:22 < dav1d> I have my arch and another arch on an usb stick
23:22 < tehme> and you don't need cd
23:22 < dav1d> why would I use ubuntu
23:22 < tehme> ah
23:22 < dav1d> arch on the same hdd
23:22 < dav1d> multi-boot
23:22 < tehme> wrong read
23:22 < tehme> nevermind
23:23 < dav1d> (and arch beeing the main os)
23:23 < dav1d> but steam likes to eat sooo much ram
23:23 < dav1d> lately
23:23 < tehme> tomorrow it will not
23:23 < tehme> :)
23:23 < tehme> pacman -Syu, iirc
23:23 < tehme> and KERNEL PANIC
23:24 < dav1d> cs:go not available on linux :(
23:25 < tehme> it will be
23:25 < dav1d> lazy valve didn't port source engine 1.5 yet
23:25 < tehme> right after hl3
23:25 < tehme> oh 
23:25 < tehme> wtf Gabe
23:25 < tehme> do you like win8 again?
23:26 < tehme> but i saw that they like sdl
23:28 < tehme> damn fuck visual studio
23:28 < dav1d> sdl works
23:28 < tehme> i want to move to something else
23:28 < tehme> but i cant
23:29 < Drainedsoul> why can't you move to not-Visual Studio?
23:30 < tehme> everything else is... uncomfortable
23:30 < Drainedsoul> in what way
23:31 < tehme> not enough features or something
23:31 < Drainedsoul> what kind of "features" are you relying on
23:32 < tehme> i needed showing of const value on mouse hover
23:32 < tehme> only vs can do this
23:32 < Drainedsoul> wat
23:32 < Drainedsoul> you're using your mouse while coding
23:32 < Drainedsoul> doing it wrong
23:32 < tehme> lol
23:32 < tehme> back to dos?:)
23:36 < Drainedsoul> what does DOS have to do with using keyboard shortcuts to increase efficiency
23:37 < tehme> what is keyboard shortcut to see const value?:)
23:38 < jast> M-x show-eval-const
23:38 < jast> super convenient
23:38 < jast> (this is all partially made up)
23:40 < tehme> lol, vim?
23:40 < tehme> too hardcore for me
23:41 < tehme> hell yeah, i moved part of code to other project almost painlessly
23:42 < tehme> refactoring is everything
23:51 < Noskcaj> I'm an ubuntu developer, working on an OS or app designed as an easy to set up server. more details at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Noskcaj/Ubuntu-Home-Server . One of the main features i'd like is a way to set up a minecraft server, no existing knowldge, CLI or willingness to learn needed. 
23:51 < Noskcaj> Is there someone who can help me?
23:52 < Noskcaj> Also, if anyone has a program they'd like to have put in the debian and ubuntu repositories, i can package that for them
23:55 < dx> did i just read "no willingness to learn needed"?
23:56 < Drainedsoul> yes, you did
23:56 < dx> disgusting.
23:56 < Noskcaj> dx, You've probably noticed, the average person doesn't want to have to learn, anything
23:56 < dx> that's the kind of person that i don't want to see as a server admin
23:57 < dx> it might be acceptable if you only allow whitelisted servers though, but if it's open it's a recipe for failure IMo
23:57 < dx> *IMO
23:59 < Noskcaj> ok, that idea has failed. What about the second half, does anyone have stuff worth putting in the repositories?
--- Day changed mar. sept. 03 2013
00:01 < Noskcaj> dx, The idea was more aimed at people who want a "just works" server for themselves and a few friends. not a server for many hundreds of people
00:02 <+ammar2> well, the two main utilities we use, burger and mark2 are on the pypi repos. Not really sure if we have something to put on the debian/ubuntu repos
00:03 < dx> Noskcaj: yeah, like i said, whitelisted servers might be okay. it will 'just work' after they add their usernames to the list, while still keeping some security
00:03 < Noskcaj> dx, good idea, if anyone is willing to help with that, that will be a requirement
00:04 < dx> emphasis in *might*
00:04 < dx> some stuff can still go wrong
00:05 < Noskcaj> ammar2, I think i'll try and package mark2, it looks like everything is licensed
00:05 < dx> but hey, mojang is doing minecraft realms with purely vanilla servers, maybe it's not as bad as i think
00:05 <+ammar2> should probably run it by the guys in #mark2
00:05 < Noskcaj> thanks for the channel ammar2 
00:24 < tehme> yo Drainedsoul
00:24 < tehme> typedef size_t (*CallbackType)(const protocol::BinaryBuffer&, size_t, ClientInfo&);
00:24 < tehme> what to doif i want to make ClientInfo template?
00:25 < Drainedsoul> what do you mean?
00:26 < Drainedsoul> why are you using function pointers and not std::function
00:26 < tehme> why std function?
00:26 < tehme> i cant use it:)
00:26 < Drainedsoul> because std::function can contain any invokable target
00:27 < tehme> can i store it into map?
00:27 < Drainedsoul> lambdas, bound functions, objects that have operator (), etc.
00:27 < Drainedsoul> yeah it's copy- and move-constructible
00:27 < tehme> thank you, i'll read about it now
00:36 < tehme> well...
00:37 < tehme> MOAR templates!
00:37 < Drainedsoul> if you're going to get into the wonderful world of std::function in C++, you should become familiar with std::bind, variadic templates, and universal references
00:37 < Drainedsoul> ...and you should stop using VS since MSVC++ is a crappy compiler
00:38 < tehme> heh
00:38 < tehme> is std::bind boost::bind?
00:40 < Drainedsoul> I think so, but you're not going to get the full advantages of generic functional programming in C++ without proper support for variadic templates, which I'm pretty sure MSVC++ doesn't support
00:40 < Drainedsoul> Clang and GCC are fine tho
00:40 < Drainedsoul> last time I tried doing variadic templates in MSVC++ it got confused when I tried to put a catch all block inside a variadic template
00:40 < Drainedsoul> so I gave up and switched to GCC 4.8.0
00:40 < Drainedsoul> best decision ever
00:41 < tehme> what ide?
00:41 < Drainedsoul> I just use Notepad++
00:41 < tehme> lol
00:41 < tehme> masochism included
00:41 < Drainedsoul> I used Notepad++ when I was using MSVC++ tho
00:42 < tehme> why?
00:42 < Drainedsoul> I can't stand VS
00:48 < tehme> oh man
00:48 < tehme> i switched to std::function
00:48 < tehme> and client still works
00:49 < tehme> great success!
00:49 < Drainedsoul> std::function is template magic.
00:49 < tehme> yep
00:49 < tehme> i added limited template magic
00:49 < tehme> i cant make unlimited for now
00:49 < tehme> because no variadic templates
00:50 < Drainedsoul> like half the things I do depend on variadic templates at some level or another
00:50 < tehme> is using some "state object" a good practice?
00:50 < Drainedsoul> ?
00:51 < tehme> http://pastebin.com/TGrpHRY1
00:51 < tehme> like this
00:51 < tehme> all callbacks use it
00:52 < dav1d> these initializer lists
00:52 < dav1d> not sure if great or just ugly and useless
00:52 < Drainedsoul> https://github.com/RobertLeahy/MCPP/blob/master/include/client.hpp
00:52 < Drainedsoul> I would say so, but I may be biased
00:53 < Drainedsoul> what's wrong with initializer lists?
01:00 < dav1d> they are basically useless, only supposed to be syntax sugar (right?)
01:00 < dav1d> but, imo, they only make the code harder to read/understand
01:01 < Drainedsoul> no, they're definitely not useless.  If you don't have an initializer list the compiler will default construct all objects in your class before invoking your constructor body
01:01 < Drainedsoul> which can either be inefficient or illegal (if one of the objects you include in your class has a deleted default constructor)
01:02 < dav1d> oh dear
01:02 < Drainedsoul> C++ doesn't allow objects to be unconstructed unless you exploit type punning or unrestricted unions
01:02 < dav1d> so they are needed to compensate for bad language design :>
01:03 < Drainedsoul> how is that bad language design?
01:04 < B3NW_> Hey I'm looking for information on the packets initially sent to the client from the server during connection
01:04 < Drainedsoul> how early in the connection
01:04 < B3NW_> I've got auth etc implemented
01:05 < B3NW_> In a perfect scenario I want to send chunk data and then just the keep alives
01:05 < Drainedsoul> you need to send 0x01 after you encrypt
01:06 < B3NW_> Okay, is there any resource so I can read up on this?
01:06 < Drainedsoul> http://wiki.vg/Protocol_Encryption
01:06 < Drainedsoul> and http://wiki.vg/Protocol_FAQ
01:07 < B3NW_> ahh I missed a section on the FAQ
01:07 < B3NW_> Thanks
01:07 < B3NW_> I should be able to manage it from there :)
01:07 < B3NW_> Ty
01:08 < tehme> dav1d: what is your D equivalent for initializers?
01:08 < dav1d> tehme: there are none, because they are not needed
01:08 < Drainedsoul> how are they not needed
01:09 < dav1d> tehme: because I don't need to initialize in a constructor
01:09 < Drainedsoul> what happens if you don't
01:09 < dav1d> struct Foo { int x = 3; this() {} }
01:09 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: default initializer for int = 0
01:09 < dav1d> int.init = 0
01:09 < dav1d> Drainedsoul | how is that bad language design?
01:09 < dav1d> that was a joke
01:10 < Drainedsoul> the compiler goes and zeroes integers out for you when you just declare them
01:10 < Drainedsoul> that sounds awful
01:10 < dav1d> I don't know enough C++ to judge
01:10 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: by default
01:10 < dav1d> struct Foo { int x = void; }
01:10 < dav1d> x = uninitialized
01:10 < Drainedsoul> so accessing x would be undefined behaviour?
01:10 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: no
01:10 < dav1d> just the contents of X are undefined
01:11 < Drainedsoul> yeah
01:11 < dav1d> not zeroed out memory
01:11 < Drainedsoul> but what happens if you fail to initialize an actual object
01:12 < tehme> CRASH
01:12 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: what is an object for you?
01:12 < dav1d> pointer (class)
01:12 < dav1d> it's by default null 
01:12 < dav1d> → do it in a constructor
01:12 < Drainedsoul> an actual object, not a pointer to an object
01:12 < dav1d> struct Foo { Object object; this() { object = new Object(); } }
01:12 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: a class is basically a pointer in D
01:13 < Drainedsoul> oh well
01:13 < dav1d> and Object is the baseclass
01:13 < Drainedsoul> depending on D's target audience I'd call that bad language design
01:13 < dav1d> why?
01:13 < dav1d> you also have that in C++?
01:13 < dav1d> only with syntactic sugar
01:13 < Drainedsoul> because making/accessing objects shouldn't incur heap allocations/indirection
01:13 < Drainedsoul> no we have
01:14 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: then use a struct
01:14 < Drainedsoul> okay so what happens if you fail to initialize a struct
01:14 < dav1d> or allocate the class on the stack
01:14 < Drainedsoul> yeah which is the real question
01:14 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: how can you fail to initialize it?
01:14 < Drainedsoul> struct foo { bar bar; };
01:14 < Drainedsoul> *Bar bar
01:14 < Drainedsoul> say "Bar" doesn't have a default constructor, what happens?
01:14 < dav1d> you can only fail to initialize the members
01:15 < dav1d> well same what happens with
01:15 < dav1d> void* foo = NULL; foo()
01:15 < Drainedsoul> but I said "Bar bar" not "Bar * bar"
01:15 < Drainedsoul> Bar can't be nullptr
01:15 < dav1d> what is Bar
01:15 < Drainedsoul> another class
01:15 < dav1d> another struct?
01:15 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: a class is a pointer
01:15 < dav1d> it's a reference type
01:16 < Drainedsoul> well let's say it's a struct then.  in C++ structs and classes are basically the same, with different default access specifications
01:16 < Drainedsoul> they're not reference types unless you declare them as a pointer or reference
01:16 < dav1d> if bar is a struct, it's the same deal as with foo
01:16 < Drainedsoul> but what if bar can't be default constructed
01:17 < Drainedsoul> it needs arguments to its constructor
01:17 < Drainedsoul> but foo doesn't have a constructor that passes those arguments through
01:17 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: there are two ways
01:17 < dav1d> you can disable the "no constructor"
01:17 < dav1d> so compiler forces you to initialize bar, which means you have to initialize foo as well
01:18 < dav1d> foo's constructor had to initialize bar
01:18 < dav1d> or you don't
01:18 < dav1d> which is not a big deal, because you normally always initialize something you wanna use
01:18 < Drainedsoul> but that's the problem initializer lists exist to solve, they're a way of specifying arguments to constructors of nested objects
01:18 < dav1d> and as long as you have no heap stuff in there, nothing is uninitialized
01:19 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: as I said, I don't know enough C++ to judge that
01:19 < Drainedsoul> because if you allowed something like Foo () { bar=Bar(); }
01:19 < Drainedsoul> you'd run up against two issues
01:19 < dav1d> but I haven't had a problem so far
01:19 < Drainedsoul> 1. The Most Vexing Parse.
01:19 < Drainedsoul> 2. The overload on operator = and construction
01:19 < dav1d> opAssign has to overloads
01:20 < dav1d> one for the "same type" and one "for everything else"
01:20 < Drainedsoul> but in the above instance bar isn't a validly initiliazed object if we didn't have initializer lists and/or default construction before the invokation of the constructor body
01:20 < Drainedsoul> so calling it's operator = would involve UB
01:20 < Drainedsoul> *its
01:21 < dav1d> then just do it manually in your constructor?
01:21 < dav1d> I don't get it
01:21 < dav1d> just initialize it before using it
01:21 < Drainedsoul> how
01:22 < Drainedsoul> there's no syntax for "just initializing" non-reference types other than simply declaring them in C++
01:22 < dav1d> ctor { this.bar = Bar(); ... other code }
01:22 < Drainedsoul> yeah that would call operator =
01:22 < Drainedsoul> on an uninitiliazed object
01:22 < Drainedsoul> UB
01:22 < dav1d> aha
01:22 < dav1d> that doesn't exist in D
01:23 < Drainedsoul> plus initializer lists are exception safe
01:23 < dav1d> that's defined, because every type has a default initializer, also compiler knows the overloads of types
01:23 < Drainedsoul> but how can every type have a default initializer
01:24 < dav1d> well everything boils down to primitive types
01:24 < dav1d> struct Foo { int x; }
01:24 < dav1d> x has a default initializer (= 0)
01:24 < dav1d> so has Foo
01:24 < dav1d> Foo.init = { 0 }
01:24 < Drainedsoul> but for some objects a "default initializer" just doesn't make sense.  If I have an object that needs to have a valid reference to a thread pool to function, what do I do if it's initialized without a thread pool?
01:25 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: you initialize it
01:25 < dav1d> easy as that
01:25 < Drainedsoul> how?  I don't have a thread pool
01:25 < dav1d> you can force initialization
01:25 < dav1d> → calling a constructor
01:25 < Drainedsoul> but that constructor won't have a thread pool either
01:26 < dav1d> if your reference to the threadpool is a pointer and there is no other threadpool yet → make a new one in the constructor
01:26 < tehme> lol
01:26 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: just make a new one?
01:26 < Drainedsoul> that might not make sense in the context
01:26 < dav1d> why?
01:26 < tehme> dav1d: do you regret about your c++ joke?:D
01:26 < dav1d> just call this.pool = get_thread_pool()
01:26 < Drainedsoul> let's say the thread pool requires a bunch of callbacks to be provided, to handle asynchronous exceptional events
01:27 < dav1d> get_thread_pool returns an already existing or makes a new one if none exists
01:27 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: and?
01:27 < Drainedsoul> that's assuming I want to use the factory pattern
01:27 < dav1d> then pass a thread pool instance to the constructor
01:27 < dav1d> or pass the arguments for the new threadpool to the constructor
01:27 < Drainedsoul> but then it's not a default constructor, because it takes arguments
01:28 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: as I told you 
01:28 < dav1d> you can force initialization
01:28 < Drainedsoul> but what does that do to the internal state of objects?
01:28 < dav1d> I am gonna stop here, what you say is either easily worked around or not valid
01:28 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: it does what you tell it to do
01:29 < Drainedsoul> okay so a File object, initialized without an constructors.  What file does it refer to?
01:29 < Drainedsoul> *any arguments to its constructor
01:29 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: ever used QFile?
01:29 < dav1d> I guess not
01:29 < Drainedsoul> that doesn't answer the question
01:29 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: well if you define a new QFile, it doesn't refer to a file either
01:30 < dav1d> as I told you before, either you force initialization or you don't
01:30 < Drainedsoul> so now you have a bunch of special cases to handle
01:30 < Drainedsoul> in case your QFile doesn't refer to a file
01:30 < dav1d> why is this a special case
01:30 < Drainedsoul> in C++ you just delete the default constructor, and then objects that refer to no file cannot exist
01:30 < dav1d> why would a user expect a uninitialized file to use
01:31 < dav1d> apart from that it could be a class which needed to be initialized
01:31 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: I told you
01:31 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: 3 times already
01:31 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: that this is possible as well
01:31 < dav1d> but you either don't seem to listen, or not care
01:31 < Drainedsoul> but then you keep saying you can "force initialization".  How can I force initialization of a file object without giving it a file to refer to?
01:32 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: it cannot exist, except you initialize it with an argument
01:32 < dav1d> @disable this();
01:32 < dav1d> default constructor isn't alloed
01:32 < Drainedsoul> yeah, that's what C++ does as well.
01:32 < dav1d> File file; ← compiler errors
01:32 < dav1d> File file = File("lol"); ← fine
01:33 < dav1d> ^ forced initialization
01:33 < tehme> yo
01:33 < tehme> do i have to send keep alive packets as a client?
01:33 < Drainedsoul> my point is that in C++ you can't do things like this.file=File("lol"); because that would invoke operator = on an object that's uninitialized
01:34 < Drainedsoul> tehme: You have to reply to the servers' keep alive packets unless you want to be kicked
01:34 < tehme> i see server does not kick me
01:34 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: which I consider a bad design
01:34 < dav1d> that shouldn't be UB
01:34 < Drainedsoul> it isn't UB, it just can't be done
01:34 < dav1d> but a lot in C/C++ is undefined begaviour :>
01:34 < dav1d> *behaviour
01:34 < dav1d> or compiler specific
01:34 < dav1d> D was made to overcome that
01:34 < tehme> i think 0x0D works as keep-alive
01:34 < Drainedsoul> well it can be done, but you have to poke holes in the object system, by using type punning or unrestricted unions
01:35 < Drainedsoul> from what you've said my issue with D would be that you have to choose between making a reference or value type when you define the class, as opposed to when you instantiate it
01:35 < Drainedsoul> but that's an "issue" I have with a lot of high-level languages anyway
01:36 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: classes are always reference types
01:36 < dav1d> structs are always value types 
01:36 < dav1d> (ofc there are pointers to structs)
01:36 < Drainedsoul> I guess you can just make everything a struct in that case?
01:36 < dav1d> classes are on the heap by default, or scope if you use scoped!
01:36 < dav1d> yes you can
01:36 < Drainedsoul> I just don't understand why languages feel the need to impose that dichotomy
01:36 < dav1d> except that structs have no inheritance
01:37 < Drainedsoul> :|
01:37 < dav1d> why would I want that anyways
01:37 < Drainedsoul> want what?
01:37 < dav1d> if I have an amazing metaprogramming
01:37 < dav1d> inheritance for structs
01:37 < Drainedsoul> non-compile time polymorphism is the only thing I can think of, but that's pretty narrow
01:38 < dav1d> yep, use classes then
01:38 < Drainedsoul> I use it for implementing modules in my server
01:38 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: also GC
01:38 < dav1d> that'S the advantage of a class
01:38 < Drainedsoul> why would I want GC when I can have shared_ptr :(
01:38 < dav1d> give a shit about memory and have a destructor
01:38 < dav1d> lol
01:38 < tehme> ^
01:38 < Drainedsoul> or auto_ptr
01:38 < dav1d> lol
01:38 < dav1d> or magic_ptr
01:39 < dav1d> or workaround_ptr
01:39 < Drainedsoul> *unique_ptr
01:39 < tehme> heh
01:40 < dav1d> a GC is a different approach which makes you less care (→ more productive) and gives you more convinience
01:40 < Drainedsoul> yeah but blindly throwing things onto the heap has the side effect of reducing spatial locality
01:40 < dav1d> and if you can't afford the speed loss (99% of times you can), don't use it
01:40 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: I agree
01:40 < dav1d> I don't like that in D either
01:40 < dav1d> stack should be used a lot more
01:41 < Drainedsoul> in C++11 the only time I think about memory management is when I'm writing a new container or when I'm interopping with C code
01:41 < Drainedsoul> and I'm pretty sure you have to do manual memory shenanigans doing C interop in D (?)
01:41 < dav1d> not really
01:41 < dav1d> either the clib cares or the gc
01:42 < Drainedsoul> I suppose.
01:42 < Drainedsoul> the only time I can think of I had to care about memory doing C interop is libcurl and overlapped structures
01:42 < Drainedsoul> because old libcurl doesn't copy strings nrrggg
01:42 < dav1d> worst thing I had was to manually call clib_free, which can be done in a dtor
01:43 < Drainedsoul> RAII is a thing in D?
01:43 < dav1d> kinda
01:43 < dav1d> it works, but it's not optimal
01:43 < Drainedsoul> it's pretty useful for dealing with C APIs
01:43 < dav1d> scope(exit) there is
01:43 < dav1d> scope(exit) free(mem)
01:44 < Drainedsoul> how does scoping work in D?
01:44 < dav1d> called on success and failure (exception)
01:44 < Drainedsoul> ah okay
01:44 < dav1d> scope(success) and scope(failure)
01:44 < dav1d> as well
01:44 < Drainedsoul> one thing I wish C++ had (does D have...?) is } finally {
01:44 < dav1d> { scope(exit) 1; scope(exit) 2 }
01:44 < dav1d> called in reverse order
01:44 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: yes
01:44 < dav1d> also no funcy throwing arbitrary types
01:45 < dav1d> *funky
01:45 < Drainedsoul> I don't understand why they've added in all sorts of wild things, like the weird stuff their doing with lambdas in C++14, but not finally
01:45 < Drainedsoul> ._.
01:45 < Drainedsoul> *they're
01:45 < dav1d> not sure whaat that is :P
01:45 < dav1d> I am not really up to date with C++ or really familiar with it
01:45 < dav1d> only did very basic things with it
01:46 < Drainedsoul> well lambdas are just anonymous functions that can capture.  But they're making them into mini-templates
01:46 < dav1d> yeah
01:46 < Drainedsoul> so you can declare their parameters "auto"
01:46 < Drainedsoul> very strange
01:46 < dav1d> but lambdas are great?
01:46 < Drainedsoul> I luv lambdas
01:46 < dav1d> aha
01:47 < dav1d> I see
01:47 < Drainedsoul> the functional aspect of C++ is becoming much more robust these last two iterations of the standard
01:51 < tehme> yo Drainedsoul, do you have c++14 feature list?
01:56 < Drainedsoul> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%2B%2B14
01:56 < Drainedsoul> it's not finalized ofc
01:57 < tehme> lololololo
01:58 < tehme> i made first cheat
01:59 < tehme> damn
02:00 < tehme> application triggers break occasionally on exit
06:36 < ackpacket> wow there are actually people here.  I'm desperate for some help with the new encryption clients are using
06:36 < ackpacket> Can I write a client that completely ignores the encryption request, that connects successfully?
06:44 < Drainedsoul> why would you want to do something like that
06:45 < ackpacket> omfg
06:45 < ackpacket> drained soul
06:45 < ackpacket> i have typed your name *so* many times in my code
06:45 < ackpacket> for testing XD
06:45 < ackpacket> because I know what the hex looks like
06:46 < ackpacket> anyways, i'm interested in doing that because i'm trying to write a client and the encryption portion comes with a very steep learning curve
06:46 < Drainedsoul> what language are you using?
06:46 < ackpacket> vb .net
06:47 < Drainedsoul> .NET has nice encryption abstractions.  Why you'd willingly use a language like VB.NET is beyond me
06:47 < Drainedsoul> http://wiki.vg/How_to_Write_a_Client#Login this seems to suggest that there's a way to connect w/o encryption, but that may be contingent on the server being in offline mode
06:48 < ackpacket> Well mostly because it's what I code in lately at work, so i'm a tad faster than the more rusty languages
06:48 < ackpacket> besides that there are lots of time savings in .net and idc about any of the speed tradeoffs for this application
06:49 < Drainedsoul> I'm sorry to hear that you have to program in VB.NET for work
06:49 < Drainedsoul> that's even worse than having to program in PHP for work
06:49 < ackpacket> We do a lot of custom interfaces for our robots
06:49 < ackpacket> .net makes it easy and fast
06:49 < ackpacket> time is money
06:49 < Drainedsoul> C# > VB
06:49 < ackpacket> besides that, a lot of the japanese companes only make arrangements for you to create plugins for their systems in vb .net
06:49 < ackpacket> including Omron, ABB, Fanuc robotics
06:51 < ackpacket> So how familiar are you with the encryption going on between the client and server?  My understanding of symmetric/asymmetric encryption is loose at best, but there are lots of things i'm unsure of in this specific scenario
06:51 < Drainedsoul> I've implemented it in C++
06:51 < ackpacket> Once encryption begins, what is the blocksize?
06:51 < ackpacket> 1 byte?
06:52 < Drainedsoul> well, it is, but it doesn't really matter, since CFB makes a block cipher into a self-synchronizing stream cipher
06:53 < ackpacket> but i thought CFB has block sizes, like CFB8 CFB16 etc
06:53 < ackpacket> It was my understanding that CFB takes the previous ciphertext, appends it to the next block of plaintext, and feeds that through the encryption algorithm using the current key
06:54 < Drainedsoul> yeah it does, but it's still a stream cipher
06:54 < Drainedsoul> you don't need to split the plaintext up into blocks of a certain size
06:55 < ackpacket> I guess what i'm asking then is, what is the input size
06:55 < Drainedsoul> so AES128CFB8 (which is what MC uses) has a block size of 1 byte (8 bits)
06:55 < Drainedsoul> but you can input anything you want
06:55 < Drainedsoul> and you'll get exactly that size of output, encrypted
06:55 < Drainedsoul> so 32 bytes in ==> 32 bytes out
06:55 < ackpacket> Right, and the first 16 bytes wouldbe the cipher text
06:55 < ackpacket> and the last 16 are to be appended to the next input
06:55 < ackpacket> is that the way it works?
06:55 < Drainedsoul> 32 bytes in (plain text) ==> 32 bytes out (cipher text)
06:55 < Drainedsoul> the feedback part is handled internally to the implementation
06:56 < ackpacket> Hmm
06:57 < ackpacket> Does this not apply?  http://youtu.be/ASR8TDIf_6c?t=1m55s
06:58 < ackpacket> I think the pony to bet on is to just try and see if I can successfully log in without encryption (just ignore the encryption request)
06:58 < Drainedsoul> it does, but your implementation of AES128CFB8 will handle that for you, you just give it a block of plaintext, it gives you a block of ciphertext, and you continue
06:58 < ackpacket> if that doesn't work then i'll try to write an implementation of encryption
07:03 < ackpacket> I see what you're saying now
07:03 < ackpacket> You're looking at this from a very abstracted view
07:04 < ackpacket> Which is fine if I can find an easy implementation of AES128CFB8 for vb .net
07:04 < ackpacket> Although I suppose I could write all of the encryption in c++ in a snap, and just throw it in a library.  Hmm...
07:05 < ackpacket> Sorry if I sound like a fanboy on this, but i'm really curious since i've been staring at your name so many times going through all these tutorials.  What's your background?  Have you written anything useful for mc?
07:10 < Drainedsoul> I'm just writing a server as a personal project
07:11 < Drainedsoul> AesCryptoServiceProvider is probably what you're looking for
07:11 < Drainedsoul> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/system.security.cryptography.aescryptoserviceprovider.aspx
07:11 < ackpacket> I'm creating a programmable bot, so people can add simple instructions 1 after another and make their own bots based around this
07:11 < ackpacket> they won't have to have any previous .net knowledge
07:12 < Drainedsoul> libraries/frameworks are always good things to have
07:12 < ackpacket> so for example they could do lclick, wait 500, goto start
07:12 < ackpacket> to have a player log ina nd constantly click
07:12 < pdelvo> encryption in .net for minecraft is not that easy
07:13 < ackpacket> or if they used lclick, movef 1, repeat 40, moveb 40, they could write a bot that harvests a 40 block line of sugarcane
07:13 < Drainedsoul> pdelvo: what makes encryption in .NET difficult?
07:13 < ackpacket> i want people to be able to automate tasks without learning a programming language, or anything about sockets/networking
07:13 < pdelvo> you can use bouncycastle. that works, but I really dont like it. it is almost not documented at all and written for java
07:14 < pdelvo> the aes part is easy, but rsa is not
07:14 < ackpacket> also I don't want to build upon the notchian client because for some it's not convenient to leave such a resource hog running all the time
07:14 < Drainedsoul> just because of the ASN.1, correct?
07:15 < pdelvo> jeah. parsing the rsa key from minecraft and bringing it in a format that minecraft understands is not easy
07:16 < Drainedsoul> into a format that C#'s RSA provider understands?
07:16 < Drainedsoul> *.NET's
07:17 < ackpacket> Well hopefully the encryption is a moot point and this project goes forward.  I think a lot of people will pick up the opportunity to write small mc programs and really run with it
07:17 < pdelvo> this why I need this class: https://github.com/pdelvo/Pdelvo.Minecraft/blob/master/Pdelvo.Minecraft.Network/ProtocolCryptography.cs
07:19 < Drainedsoul> which direction is that targeted at, or both?
07:19 < pdelvo> both
07:20 < Drainedsoul> ah okay.  I did some grotesque specially targeted DER implementing to go from OpenSSL's big integer to ASN.1
07:20 < ackpacket> pdelvo what kind of projects are on your todo list?
07:20 < Drainedsoul> https://github.com/RobertLeahy/MCPP/blob/master/src/rsa_key.cpp#L163
07:21 < ackpacket> lmao mr leahy
07:21 < ackpacket> and randy
07:21 < pdelvo> and btw. for aes you cant use the AesCryptoServiceProvider. use RijndaelManaged instead. the aes one is more strict to the parameter it supports and you cant configure it to work with minecraft
07:21 < Drainedsoul> if I ever do anything MC-related in .NET I'll just P/Invoke OpenSSL, this sounds like too much for me
07:21 < Drainedsoul> :P
07:22 < pdelvo> I have a full minecraft protocol implementation in C# which is able to work with multiple versions. and I have a proxy which is in theory able to allow players to join to a mc server with a different version then the server
07:22 < ackpacket> pdelvo, have you been listening for a while now?  Is it possible to login to an online server and just ignore the encryption request?
07:22 < pdelvo> it was. I dont know if it has changed or not
07:23 < ackpacket> Wait, it was as in, it was possible to login without encryption (back before encryption existed in mc), or as in even when encryption was implemented you used to be able to ignore it
07:27 < pdelvo> it was after encryption was in. but I dont know how it was exactly. you could not send a encryption related packet. but im not sure which one
11:17 <+clonejo> Is anyone here playing with Rust?
11:37 < jast> I've looked at Rust and like the ideas... but haven't really used it yet
11:38 <+AndrewPH> uhhh Rust being the game or being something that I haven't heard of?
11:38 < jast> in my case, not the game but the programming language :)
11:38 < jast> rust-lang.org
11:38 < jast> still in design phase pretty much
11:38 < jast> but there's a working implementation of the current state
11:41 <+AndrewPH> neato
11:42 < jast> and it does pretty much all the cool things
12:04 <+pdelvo> lol. java 8 add linq and lambdas and some kind of virtual methods in interfaces. so basicly it makes java more .net
12:04 < jast> that's a good thing, right?
12:05 <+pdelvo> kind of. I have to use it in the near future so I should be happy about that
12:06 < jast> otoh it'll encourage more people to use java :/
12:06 < SinZ> it'll only get used when java10 is released
12:09 <+AndrewPH> ^ 4 months after java 8. also java8 will break things for No Reason(tm)
12:10 < jast> I'm so sad I never have to deal with java
12:11 <+pdelvo> An article about it appeared in my twitter today
12:13 < SinZ> shit all people are using java7 still
12:14 <+pdelvo> how can someone use a language without lamdas if they are not forced to do so???
12:19 < tehme> pdelvo: why are lambdas? the only use i know is quick and dirty anonymous function in std algorithms
12:21 <+pdelvo> because you can compress many lines of source code in a single line while increasing readability
12:23 <+pdelvo> var result = list.Where(item => item.FirstName == "John").OrderBy(item => item.LastName).Skip(5).Take(10).ToArray();
12:23 <+pdelvo> write this without linq and lambdas. 
12:25 < jast> lambdas are pretty much indispensable when you write functional-style code
12:25 < jast> and functional-style code is much shorter and easier to read than imperative-style code for a wide range of tasks
12:33 < eddyb> or array.filter(item => item.firstName == 'John').sort((a, b) => a.lastName - b.lastName).slice(5, 10) // ES6 <3
12:37 < eddyb> tehme: try working in a languages where there's no real separation between functions and lambdas
12:40 < eddyb> oh dear, I'm tired. s/languages/language
12:40 < tehme> eddyb: lua:)
12:41 < eddyb> can you do what I wrote three lines above in Lua?
12:41 < zutto> dont forget the trailing slash eddyb 
12:41 < eddyb> zutto: s/$/\// are you happy?
12:41 < zutto> very
12:42 < zutto> continue!
12:43 < eddyb> Lua is quite moronic, maybe somewhat like VB. even Python is better (and I despise it)
12:44 < tehme> eddyb: why do you think so?
12:44 < eddyb> it's used by game devs who have no clue what they're doing (take a dive into WoW code sometimes if you don't believe me)
12:44 < zutto> lua is very good when you need to do things like what world of warcraft did.. small scripts
12:44 < zutto> actually didnt hl engines use lua as extension language too?
12:45 < Exio4> pdelvo: "and lambdas"
12:45 < eddyb> warcraft can be excused, v8 wasn't back then
12:45 < Exio4> more like adding functional ways to do stuff
12:45 < zutto> actually i agree with that eddyb lol
12:45 < zutto> damn it would be amazing to have v8 integrated into games 
12:45 < zutto> you could actually do something and it wouldnt suck so much
12:45 < tehme> javascript? oh god no
12:46 < eddyb> I have a bindings layer which makes it trivial
12:46 < eddyb> tehme: you have no clue, since you didn't pick up on "ES6"
12:46 < tehme> wut
12:47 < eddyb> if you haven't heard of ES6, you obviously have no idea what you're talking about
12:47 < tehme> so tell me
12:49 < eddyb> zutto: look at these bindings: https://github.com/eddyb/v8-gearbox/blob/master/src/modules/GL.gear#L323
12:49 < eddyb> zutto: if I add a preprocessor on top of it, I can make them even thinner
12:50 < zutto> looks fine to me
12:50 < eddyb> nobody was using it, so it went zombie, like most of my projects
12:51 < zutto> most of my projects go zombie cause i never release them to anyone except selected few
12:51 < eddyb> I've been thinking of coming back with its framework, in competition with node.js' attempt of creating a C API (to wrap the unstable v8 C++ API)
12:52 < eddyb> but I don't like useless work, so I even forgot about that until now
12:53 < zutto> if you can beat node.js, i'll give you a golfclap
12:54 < eddyb> I've done this before node.js, it gained popularity too fast, but I can make it really easy for bindings writers
12:54 < eddyb> zutto: you can do this from C++ (assuming node.js): global["process"]["emit"]("exit", 0);
12:54 < zutto> i dont really know much about nodejs, other than that its very easy to scale for big projects ;l
12:55 < eddyb> have you seen the v8 C++ API?
12:55 < zutto> nope
12:55 < eddyb> it would take about 7 lines and a lot of code to do the same thing, without my framework
12:56 < zutto> sounds quite intresting
12:57 < eddyb> I tried to rewrite node.js with it, they wouldn't import it and it was too big for me
12:57 < eddyb> s/import/accept my trashing/
12:57 < zutto> i used to use programs that were using spidermonkey as their scripting language, now i'm just imagining what it would be like with v8, lol
13:02 < eddyb> zutto: this is one example https://github.com/joyent/node/blob/master/src/node.cc#L3164-L3173
13:02 < eddyb> process_l["_exiting"] = true; process_l["emit"]("exit", 0); // with my framework
13:35 < jast> node.js scales easily... unless you actually have to do computations. there are environments that can do the difficult work for you even in this case, and node.js isn't one of those :)
14:18 < tehme> yo
14:18 < tehme> let's rename http://wiki.vg/Protocol#0x33 to Chunk column data
14:20 < TRocket> @tehme Chunk column data +1
14:20 < TRocket> much more descriptive as to what the packet actually represents
14:37 <+clonejo> zutto: Also nodejs isn't concurrent, just asynchronous.
14:37 < zutto> i know
14:37 < zutto> thats why its good for scaling ;l
14:38 <+clonejo> zutto: um, nodejs can only handle one event loop, eg. only one thread
14:38 < zutto> wasnt there some stabbing done for running multiple nodejs instances that shared all data
14:38 < jast> for almost completely I/O-bound applications that's fine
14:39 < zutto> that removed the problem
14:39 < zutto> i remember there was some solution
14:39 < jast> implicitly sharing all data across several instances is pretty expensive
14:40 <+clonejo> I suspect v8 to only use floats, even for integers.
14:43 <+clonejo> I once had multiple nodejs instances running with heavy integer calculations on my cpu which has 8 cores, but only 4 fpus. Each pair of cores had exactly 100% usage.
14:44 < eddyb> optimized code does integer arithmetic just fine
14:45 < eddyb> they even added support for Smi (31-bit signed integers, shifted left by one and the lowest bit is set, to distinguish from pointers) arithmetic
14:45 <+clonejo> hm, then it wasn't optimizing for some reason
14:45 < eddyb> unoptimized code tends to run like shit because there's little type info
14:45 <+clonejo> the 8 nodejs processes weren't restarted through the whole operation, jit should have worked just fine
14:45 <+clonejo> oh, ok
14:46 < eddyb> are you sure you weren't using floating-point anywhere, not even for intermediary values?
14:46 <+clonejo> idk, the nodejs code wasn't written by me
14:47 < eddyb> chances are it wasn't that smart
14:47 <+clonejo> ^^
14:49 < eddyb> I don't know if anyone's tried this, but forking (to create cluster workers) *after* setting up most of the work environment should reduce memory usage
14:50 < eddyb> because of CoW. and fuck windows
16:24 < tehme> fuck chunks!
16:28 < TkTech> clonejo: V8 and JavaScriptCore both have some extensions for explicit typing.
16:36 < eddyb> TkTech: can you expand on that?
16:37 <+pdelvo> does it improve performance or is it just to help the developer like explicit typing in typescript?
16:37 < eddyb> I haven't seen it, for the record
16:37 < dx> maybe stuff like asm.js
16:37 < eddyb> v8 uses first-tier JIT to capture type info for second-tier optimized JIT
16:38 < TkTech> eddyb: V8::Int32 / V8::Number
16:38 < eddyb> dx: not supported by v8, which aims at better performance for non-auto-generated code :P
16:38 < eddyb> TkTech: ah, you misunderstood that. they're just constructors
16:40 < dx> eddyb: i don't think you can get the performance of asm.js with dynamically typed javascript code, but yeah, auto-generated code is not an ideal path to aim to i guess
16:41 < eddyb> dx: the idea is that without supporting asm.js, asm.js should be almost as fast as in a supporting engine, without restricting it as in the specs
16:41 < dx> eddyb: ideally!
16:42 < eddyb> it's pretty much about logistics :P
16:46 < dav1d> asm.js?
16:46 < dav1d> ah
16:46 < dav1d> nvm
20:42 < tehme> can anyone compress a test string for me by zlib deflate?
20:44 < Drainedsoul> how is the string encoded?
20:48 < tehme> hm
20:49 < tehme> show me please how you handle chunks
20:49 < tehme> Drainedsoul: ^
20:49 < Drainedsoul> what do you mean "handle" them?
20:52 < tehme> decompress and store
20:52 < Drainedsoul> well I'm writing a server, I don't decompress chunks, I compress them
20:52 < Drainedsoul> https://github.com/RobertLeahy/MCPP/blob/master/src/world/column_container.cpp#L474
20:53 < tehme> fuck
20:53 < tehme> anyway
20:53 < tehme> where did you take lib?
20:53 < tehme> built yourself?
20:53 < Drainedsoul> hmm?
20:54 < tehme> i wanted binaries
20:54 < Drainedsoul> I had to build zlib from source because it wasn't x64
20:54 < tehme> but i cant find them on their site
20:54 < Drainedsoul> download the source and build it
20:54 < tehme> i hate it
20:55 < Drainedsoul> there are distributed binaries, but they're x86 only
20:56 < tehme> link please
20:56 < eddyb> tehme: don't use windows. problem fixed pretty much
20:57 < Drainedsoul> he's in love with MSVC++ for some reason
20:57 < Drainedsoul> there's literally a link to the zlib compiled DLL on zlib's homepage http://www.zlib.net/
20:58 < tehme> what about header and lib?
20:58 < tehme> how sjould i use it?
20:58 < tehme> should*
20:59 < Drainedsoul> I have no idea.  I don't use VS.  I just /I the path to the includes and pass the DLL to the linker
20:59 < tehme> or im i fuckin blind and they are in archive?
21:00 < tehme> yep
21:00 < tehme> i am blind
21:00 < tehme> sorry
21:11 < Not-009> [mc4p] sadimusi pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±8] http://git.io/jvfmug
21:11 < Not-009> [mc4p] Simon Marti 31ffd16 - Reworked protocol definitions + yggdrasil support
21:11 < tehme> if (skylight) size+=(16*16*16*16)/2;
21:11 < tehme> i love this
21:24 < eddyb> *256 would make slightly more sense
21:24 < eddyb> or, you know, constants
21:33 < tehme> TRocket
21:33 < tehme> are you here?
21:34 < tehme> oh
21:38 < Drainedsoul> how would *256 make more sense
21:39 < Drainedsoul> (16*16*16*16)/2 is 32768.  But 32768 doesn't have any semantic meaning.  A column is 16 chunks which are 16*16*16.  Skylight is a nibble per block, so (16*16*16*16)/2 communicates something about the value
21:40 < Drainedsoul> the compiler is going to look at (16*16*16*16)/2 and just replace it with 65536 anyway
21:40 < Drainedsoul> *32768
21:45 < eddyb> Drainedsoul: 16x16x16 is a single chunk
21:46 < eddyb> Drainedsoul: a column is 16x16x256
21:46 < Drainedsoul> a column is 16x(16x16x16)
21:47 < eddyb> chunkWidth * chunkHeight * maxHeight
21:47 < eddyb> pretty sure maxHeight can vary, so it makes more sense this way
21:47 < Drainedsoul> with the current protocol max height can only vary by being decreased
21:48 < Drainedsoul> as far as I can tell
21:49 < Yoshi2> eddyb: wouldn't chunk length instead of chunk height make more sense?
21:49 < eddyb> Yoshi2: thank you, I needed that word. I've had some problems with more than two dimensions :))
21:50 < Yoshi2> heh, you're welcome
--- Day changed mer. sept. 04 2013
01:23 < tehme> shit
01:23 < tehme> dat vs
01:24 < tehme> i am trying to change file structure and now i can't compile asolution
01:30 < Drainedsoul> weird
01:31 < Drainedsoul> I don't have this issue with makefiles and GCC
01:34 < tehme> heh
01:34 < tehme> i did it
01:34 < tehme> isn't it boring to write makefiles?
01:34 < tehme> why do the work that can be done by ide?
01:35 < tehme> wasn't that you who said "let compiler do the work for you"?
01:38 < tehme> can i upload images to github ?
02:01 < Drainedsoul> yes you can
02:01 < Drainedsoul> it even has proper diff support for images, it's ridiculous
02:02 < tehme> can you help me
02:02 < tehme> ?
02:02 < tehme> i created local repo
02:02 < tehme> how should i push it to github?
02:02 < tehme> and i created github repo too
02:03 < Drainedsoul> are you just using git, or are you using a GUI front-end
02:03 < tehme> git console
02:04 < Drainedsoul> I have no idea, why are you doing that to yourself?  Get something like SourceTree
02:04 < tehme> ok
02:05 < Drainedsoul> have you tried
02:05 < Drainedsoul> git help push
02:05 < Drainedsoul> ?
02:05 < tehme> i just realized i typed commands into lua interpreter console
02:06 < tehme> time to sleep or something
02:16 < tehme> wow
02:16 < tehme> nice thing
02:17 < tehme> thank you man
02:17 < tehme> it's much better
15:18 < shoghicp> Updated http://p.wiki.vg/ for the MCPE 0.7.5 release, no protocol changes
18:23 < tehme> anyone used boost iostreams zlib?
21:00 < ashka> hm, does anyone has a iptables rule to drop server list packets ? 
21:07 < dx> ashka: while keeping server access?
21:07 < dx> interesting
21:07 < _68x> ashka: afaik, it's not possible without blocking the ip
21:07 < ashka> okay, it's what I thought.. I should create a proxy for it
21:07 <+sadimusi> nobody will be able to connect
21:08 < _68x> or .. you can implement a server mod that spefically does not respond to those packets
21:08 < dx> but if iptables has a module to read the first few tcp bytes...
21:08 < dx> (i can barely get a NAT working with iptables, don't ask me)
21:09 < _68x> ashka, what are you using to act as the minecraft server? 
21:09 < ashka> bukkit, but I can't really do something for it but a thing as simple as iptables (live stuff, etc)
21:14 < dx> well you can use reflection from a plugin to mess with NMS and disable that part of the code :D
21:15 < _68x> ashka, then i recommend downloading bukkit's source
21:15 < _68x> or get soem one to to do this for you:
21:15 <+sadimusi> what's the goal anyway?
21:16 < _68x> get bukkit's source and make bukkit not handle the server ping packets
21:16 < _68x> of course the down side is that you have to manually do this for every bukkit build ...
21:17 < dx> send the bukkit developers a patch to include an api for this
21:17 < dx> just kidding don't waste your time
21:21 < _68x> dx, i see what you did there 
21:22 < dx> :3
21:23 < _68x> i just realised that minecraft has added extra packets for mods
21:24 < dx> are you talking about plugin channels or did i miss anything?
21:25 < _68x> score board related packets
21:25 < _68x> there are some really neat applications of it
21:25 < dx> oh, that
21:25 < dx> mostly sethbling applications
21:26 < _68x> i've been on some servers that display the health bar 
21:26 < _68x> i believe that they are using, Display Scoreboard (0xD0) , please correct me if i am wrong
21:30 < shoghicp> I would like that in MCPE too :(
21:31 < Yoshi2> I played around a bit with the score board packets two weeks ago and noticed at least one thing that seemed odd to me
21:31 < Yoshi2> you can't display a scoreboard without any entries
21:32 < Yoshi2> at least not as a sidebar list
21:32 < _68x> Yoshi2, it's porbably some data verification client side
21:32 < _68x> oh heya shoghicp, long time no see!
21:32 < shoghicp> hi!
21:33 < Yoshi2> if you tell the game to display a scoreboard as a sidebar and in the TAB player list, you can force the game to display the scoreboard on the side of your screen
21:33 < Yoshi2> when you press tab, the scoreboard will appear and there will be a single entry, which is your own name
21:33 < Yoshi2> very annoying, because I wanted to use the scoreboard as a message box :/
21:34 < _68x> :/
21:34 < _68x> does it take neline chars?
21:35 < Yoshi2> I don't think so, but I haven't tried that
21:37 < _68x> kind of sucks, but i guess they are other applications for score boards
22:12 < tehme> i just griefed huge wall of diamond blocks
22:12 < tehme> life is good
22:42 < tehme> fuck!
22:42 < tehme> i hate boost iostreams
22:55 < tehme> omfg shitfuck
22:55 < tehme> i can't decompress this shit
22:56 < tehme> and google is impressively silent
22:57 < Drainedsoul> why can't you decompress it?
22:58 <+Prf_Jakob> tehme: Please this channel is not about greifing
22:58 < tehme> Drainedsoul: tons of errors
22:58 < Drainedsoul> such as?
22:58 < tehme> cannot instattiate blah blah
22:59 < Drainedsoul> wat
22:59 < Drainedsoul> where are these errors coming from?
23:00 < tehme> from boost
23:00 < Drainedsoul> compile time errors?
23:01 < tehme> 1>c:\boost_1_53_0\boost\iostreams\copy.hpp(178): error C2338: (is_same<src_char, snk_char>::value)
23:01 < tehme> 1>          c:\boost_1_53_0\boost\iostreams\copy.hpp(219) : see reference to function template instantiation 'std::streamsize boost::iostreams::detail::copy_impl<boost::reference_wrapper<T>,boost::iostreams::back_insert_device<Container>>(Source,Sink,std::streamsize)' being compiled
23:01 < tehme> yes
23:01 < Drainedsoul> what does that have to do with decompressing
23:02 < tehme> http://pastebin.com/hLbA63E4
23:04 < Drainedsoul> I don't know anything about this boost crap.  Why don't you just write a nice wrapper for zlib and use that
23:04 < tehme> tons of code
23:05 < Drainedsoul> lol
23:07 < tehme> but i am close to this
23:08 < tehme> or just steal your code:D
23:13 < Drainedsoul> yeah that works
23:14 < tehme> fuck
23:15 < tehme> it's hard to understand
23:15 < Drainedsoul> what is?
23:16 < tehme> your inflate
23:30 < TkTech> Prf_Jakob: Starting to get a bit annoying. The language, one or two word sentences, and the obvious goal of using what he learns here to grief.
23:31 <+sadimusi> TkTech: agree
23:44 < Drainedsoul> what did you have in mind?
23:48 < iBotPeaches> as long as we are voicing opinions, he is very annoying, and I agree
23:49 <+Prf_Jakob> well if he is greifing then give him the boot
23:50 <+sadimusi> maybe we should add a rule about that
23:55 <+Prf_Jakob> we do
23:56 < AlphaBlend> what is the worst that could come of someone talking about griefing in here?
23:56 < dav1d> did we get a ban?
23:56 <+Prf_Jakob> actually we donät
23:56 < iBotPeaches> I don't see it on the list
23:56 < iBotPeaches> last one is about pirating
23:56 < AlphaBlend> i mean, i don't really enjoy the topic myself
23:57 < iBotPeaches> personally, I hate the constant whining and language, but that can't be a valid reason
23:57 <+Prf_Jakob> There is a section on Exploits which I guess covers griefing as well
23:57 < AlphaBlend> griefing = exploit
23:57 < AlphaBlend> wat
--- Day changed jeu. sept. 05 2013
09:10 <+Prf_Jakob> What is the easiest way from the cli to get a pull request down to your local repo?
09:10 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: ^
09:36 < jast> git pull <url for pull request, e.g. git://github.com/otheruser/forkrepo> <branch/commit from pull request>
09:37 < jast> if you merge pull requests from a user repeatedly, you might wanna add a remote for the URL: git remote add foobar <url>. makes things easier.
09:59 <+Prf_Jakob> jast: k thanks, I was hoping i could just do "git pull origin pulls/<number>" and it would alias it correctly.
10:38 < eddyb> jast, Prf_Jakob: about that, for my forks I add a "parent" remote, so I can do git pull (--rebase if I have any local changes) parent master; git push # to bring it up to date
11:44 <+md_5> relevant to us: http://i.imgur.com/rnJHZOa.png
11:49 <+Prf_Jakob> md_5: yeupp
11:49 < winny> haha.
12:31 < tehme> sup
12:32 < tehme> well i did it
12:32 < tehme> writing directly into vector's array
12:32 < tehme> dirty dirty code
12:38 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2202 3 files : Updated CPE netcode to latest protocol revision (3 Sep 2013)
15:20 <+clonejo> Prf_Jakob: there is some command line interface for github
15:20 <+Prf_Jakob> hub
15:20 <+Prf_Jakob> seems to be one
15:27 < iBotPeaches> a new snapshot :p its been too long
15:32 < Yoshi2> there is no UTF8 support in the snapshot, is there?
15:32 < Yoshi2> I'll just give up :P
15:38 <+pdelvo> never give up!
15:39 <+pdelvo> I got my protol version at the motd request (c->s) after I wanted it for months
15:40 <+pdelvo> the new mesa biome looks so strange
15:41 < Yoshi2> there is a mesa biome?
15:41 <+pdelvo> jeah. but its very buggy
15:42 <+pdelvo> the water does not go to the ground of the sea. there is air under it
15:42 <+sadimusi> as expected burger completely fails
15:44 < Yoshi2> sadimusi: has there been a single update which didn't cause burger to break?
15:44 <+sadimusi> sure
15:44 <+sadimusi> burger actually broke way less often than I would have expected
15:45 < shoghicp> :D
15:45 < Yoshi2> ah, good to hear
15:45 <+pdelvo> under a sea in a mesa biome: http://pdelvo.de/2013-09-05_15.42.54.png
15:45 <+sadimusi> does it fill up as soon as you update a block?
15:46 <+AndrewPH> undah da sea~ unda da sea~
15:46 <+AndrewPH> (something something lyrics)
15:46 <+pdelvo> it does. but only the spot where I update it
15:48 <+pdelvo> I dont like that biome. looks very wrong http://pdelvo.de/2013-09-05_15.47.26.png
15:50 < shoghicp> lol xD
15:53 <+AndrewPH> looks fine to me?
15:53 < Yoshi2> is that the new flying island biome everybody has been waiting for since indev? :D
15:54 <+AndrewPH> gosh darnit Yoshi2 now I'm nostalgic for indev
15:54 <+AndrewPH> those floating islands were the bees knees
15:54 <+pdelvo> maybe :D the bad thing is that all islands are 1 block at height
15:56 < Yoshi2> AndrewPH: I'm still nostalgic for classic, it's the only reason why I started writing a smp->classic proxy on the basis of mc4p
15:56 <+AndrewPH> Yoshi2: oh boyyy
15:56 <+sadimusi> Yoshi2: did you have a look at my recent mc4p update?
15:57 <+pdelvo> I like the new particles coming out of the water. looks like there are fish swimming :)
15:57 < Yoshi2> sadimusi: nope, haven't looked at it yet
15:58 <+sadimusi> I reworked the protocol definitions quite a bit https://github.com/sadimusi/mc4p/blob/master/mc4p/messages.py#L27
16:24 < TkTech> sadimusi: Wait, what? How is ClientMessage aware of the selected protocol version?
16:24 < TkTech> What evilness have you implemented?
16:25 <+sadimusi> a few of the things I wrote probably belong to the "never ever do this" category
16:25 <+sadimusi> e.g. https://github.com/sadimusi/mc4p/blob/master/mc4p/parsing.py#L68
16:25 < TkTech> Oh sweet jesus.
16:25 <+sadimusi> but I'm willing to sacrifice my firstborn for pretty protocol definitions :P
16:25 < dav1d> lol
16:26 < TkTech> This is how you end up on the dailywtf.
16:26 < TkTech> Clever solution, but urgh.
17:01 <+pdelvo> the new version does perform a lot better for me. almost 3 times the fps I got with 1.6.2. wow
17:06 <+pdelvo> I have now >300 fps at fancy, renderdistance far, adv. opengl and full hd if I walk around and generate new chunks. If I stand still I have >400fps. in 1.6.2 I had ~130fps
17:07 < dexter0> maybe they finally merged in that new rendering engine.
17:08 <+pdelvo> the multiplayer chunk cache now has 2 values (always the same for me). Its lower then before for distance far. and the chunks need more time to load in :(
17:08 <+pdelvo> but the fps are much higher
17:12 <+pdelvo> the gpu load is lower then in 1.6.2. ~30% for me
17:12 <+pdelvo> in 1.6.2 ~40%. 
17:15 < dexter0> Quick look through the jar did not turn up any shaders (which I'd expect to see in the new engine) but maybe they are just including them in the src.
17:17 <+AndrewPH> pdelvo: oh wow that's a pretty nice improvement
17:25 < Yoshi2> sadimusi: has anything else other than the protocol definition changed?
17:25 < Yoshi2> I had to dig in pretty deep into the mc4p code to bend it into doing what I want :/
17:30 <+pdelvo> hm no improvement on my ultrabook :(
18:04 <+sadimusi> Yoshi2: no, everything else is still the same
18:05 <+sadimusi> Yoshi2: authentication changed a bit as well, it now supports yggdrasil
20:04 < tehme> this fucking minecraft eats 50% of cpu while not in game
20:04 < tehme> wtf mojang
20:06 <+pdelvo> turn on vsync
20:06 <+sadimusi> tehme: your rambling and swearing is getting a bit annoying
20:06 < tehme> ok
20:07 <+pdelvo> its not minecrafts fault that your computer always wants to do everything as fast as it can
20:08 < tehme> pdelvo: wut?
20:08 < tehme> it was in multiplayer menu
20:09 <+AndrewPH> a program doing literally nothing but 1+1 forever will eat similar amounts of cpu :)
20:09 <+pdelvo> jeah and you configured minecraft to render as much fps as it can. and because minecraft is mostly cpu limited it uses that much cpu
20:10 < tehme> pdelvo: no i did not
20:10 <+pdelvo> wow. thats nice. found a "Savanna Plateau M" biome. with a floating island at215 height
20:11 <+pdelvo> if you have vsync disabled you have
20:14 < TkTech> pdelvo: You say that, and then don't mention the seed? How cruel.
20:14 <+pdelvo> Im uploading a screenshot right now :)
20:15 < dav1d> pdelvo: what windows are you using?
20:16 <+pdelvo> windows 8. And I dont care if everyone who never used it say it sucks :)
20:16 <+pdelvo> http://pdelvo.de/2013-09-05_20.11.17.png
20:16 <+AndrewPH> pdelvo: truly this is the future
20:17 < dav1d> pdelvo: I am thinking of exactly installing that
20:17 < Yoshi2> flying islands, oh how I missed thee
20:17 < dav1d> 1.7 terrain ftw
20:17 < dav1d> (beta 1.7)
20:17 < dav1d> and alpha cobblestone
20:18 <+pdelvo> I cant find a mesa biome any more
20:54 < TkTech> AndrewPH: Technically the past.
20:54 < TkTech> Even then the old flying islands looked waaay better
21:50  * dav1d just bough windows 8
22:49 < Socolin> Hello, is someone have an example how to handle 0xFD packet on client side in C++ with Crypto++ (how to use server public key, for encrypt the token and the client private key) ?
22:50 < dav1d> thi
22:50 < dav1d> *hi
22:50 < dav1d> there should be examples on the wiki
22:50 < dav1d> on the bottom, links to pastebins
22:50 < Socolin> I have look them I don't find it
22:51 < Socolin> I have use it for server side
22:53 < dav1d> ah
22:53 < dav1d> Fador: should have some code
22:53 < dav1d> maybe just wait until he gets around
22:53 < dav1d> dx: maybe as well ^
22:54 <+sadimusi> isn't Drainedsoul using C++ as well?
22:55 < dav1d> right
22:57 < Socolin> ok thank you, I will continue trying to make it work ;)
22:59 <+Fador> I use openssl to handle encryption in mineserver..
23:00 < dav1d> oh
23:01 < Socolin> serverside it work ^^
23:08 < tehme> what is code of air? 0?
23:09 < Morrolan> Item ID of air is 0, yes.
23:09 < dav1d> tehme: minecraft wiki → data values
23:28 < Drainedsoul> I have examples of how to handle that packet with C++
23:28 < Drainedsoul> but not with Crypto++, I just use custom OpenSSL wrappers
23:32  * winny fires up the snapshot
23:33 < winny> unrelated I finally converted some wolfram alpha systems of equations stuffs to figure out where strongholds are into python :3 https://github.com/winny-/stronghold/blob/master/stronghold.py
23:40 < tehme> cheater!
23:41 < Socolin> It's ok, I just found how to do it with cryptopp,
23:44 < tehme> http://wiki.vg/SMP_Map_Format#Chunk_Column_Metadata
23:44 < tehme> what is "add array"?
23:45 <+pdelvo> it is used when you want more block type ids
23:46 < tehme> hmm
23:46 <+pdelvo> without it you have 2⁸ = 256 different blocks. with it you have 2⁸ * 2⁴ = 4096 block types
23:46 < tehme> oh
23:47 < tehme> i got it
23:47 <+pdelvo> it is only present if you set the bitmask correctly
23:47 <+pdelvo> it is not used in vanilla, but by mods
23:48 < tehme> i doubt does this have to be in block struct
23:50 <+pdelvo> what do you mean?
23:51 < tehme> http://pastebin.com/kmPjdbP3
23:51 < tehme> m_add
23:52 < Drainedsoul> if you want to store block type in memory, you should just store it as a 16-bit unsigned integer and constrain that to <4096 somehow
23:53 < Drainedsoul> it doesn't make any sense to do all sorts of bitwise shenanigans whenever you want to read the block type, just because Mojang's on wire format is stupid
23:56 < tehme> Drainedsoul: that's an idea
23:56 < tehme> but damnit
23:56 < tehme> this chunk shit is a little unclear to me
23:56 < Drainedsoul> in what way?
23:56 < tehme> so refactoring will be
23:56 < tehme> description
23:57 < tehme> i am thinking about rewriting it
23:57 < dav1d> mh
23:57 < Drainedsoul> yeah that sounds like a plan
23:57 < dav1d> why would I use partclone instead of dd?
23:58 < tehme> good question
23:59 < dav1d> well, partclone is probably faster, since it probably sees "empty" space
23:59 < dav1d> but so much probably
--- Day changed ven. sept. 06 2013
00:00 < tehme> test it
00:00 < tehme> offsets or iterators?
00:03 < dav1d> depends
00:03 < dav1d> but I'd use offsets for the chunk stuff
00:03 < dav1d> actually, I am using offsets :P
00:04 < tehme> heh
00:04 < tehme> i want to try MIGHTY C++ STYLE
00:04 < tehme> this will work good with vector
00:07 < Drainedsoul> "partclone"?
00:08 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: yes
00:08 < dav1d> what clonezilla uses
00:08 < Drainedsoul> I don't follow
00:08 < Drainedsoul> uh okay
00:09 < Drainedsoul> I got confused because I thought it had some relation to the discussion about storing blocks
00:09 < Drainedsoul> sorry
00:09 < dav1d> ah no
00:09 < dav1d> my bad
00:20 < tehme> lol
00:20 < tehme> iterator version is much slower
00:24 < tehme> server kicks me before i read all chunks
00:27  * dav1d hopes for the best http://vp.dav1d.de/6mtcL
00:31 < tehme> lolololol i'm a pervert
00:31 < tehme> i made 80 threads that read chunks
00:32 < tehme> at least server doesn't kick me now
00:33 < tehme> Drainedsoul: what is the best way to store chunk columns?
00:34 < dav1d> memory
00:34 < tehme> orly
00:34 < dav1d> put your blocks into a block struct
00:34 < dav1d> store these in memory
00:34 < tehme> different containers can represent memory
00:34 < dav1d> you need 12 bit padded iirc per block
00:34 < dav1d> no container
00:34 < tehme> wut
00:35 < dav1d> Block*
00:35 < dav1d> or if you feel fancy, multi-dimensional
00:35 < tehme> what the focking hardcore?
00:35 < dav1d> what?
00:35 < tehme> how do you access this?
00:35 < dav1d> chunk[x][y][z]
00:35 < dav1d> not so bad isn't it?
00:36 < dav1d> s/n't//
00:36 < tehme> and when you move?
00:36 < dav1d> calloc it
00:36 < tehme> new chunks load
00:36 < dav1d> I free the chunk
00:36 < tehme> ols ones unload
00:36 < dav1d> calloc and free
00:36 < tehme> old*
00:36 < dav1d> and set the old chunk ptr to an empty read only chunk
00:36 < dav1d> https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/brala/dine/chunk.d
00:37 < dav1d> get_block / to_flat
00:37 < dav1d> are important
00:38 < dav1d> actually a block is 24bit
00:39 < Drainedsoul> I store blocks in columns, and I store blocks in a structure that's exactly 64 bits
00:39 < Drainedsoul> 32 bits for "flags", 16 bits for the type, 8 bits shared for skylight/metadata, and 8 bits for light
00:39 < tehme> how do you store columns?
00:39 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: 32 bit for what?
00:39 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: server I guess?
00:39 < Drainedsoul> yes
00:39 < Drainedsoul> it's a server
00:40 < dav1d> ok, then flags make sense
00:40 < tehme> i store them in this: std::map<int, std::map<int, ChunkColumn>> m_columnsMap; // ZX, in chunk coordinates
00:40 < dav1d> client needs not additional state
00:40 < tehme> but i think it is bad
00:40 < dav1d> tehme: holy fucking shit
00:40 < Drainedsoul> I have a contiguous stretch of memory that will store 16*16*16*16 blocks, and then 16*16 bytes, and then 1 byte for populated/not
00:40 < Drainedsoul> use a std::unordered_map
00:40 < tehme> oh
00:40 < dav1d> tehme: calloc a bunch of memory done
00:40 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: doesn't make it a lot better
00:40 < Drainedsoul> don't calloc
00:40 < tehme> dav1d: this will lead to problems in other place
00:40 < Drainedsoul> std::unordered_map<ColumnID,SmartPointer<ColumnContainer>> is what I do
00:41 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: calloc and copy over the data from the chunks
00:41 < tehme> i want to keep chunk coords
00:41 < Drainedsoul> create a class
00:41 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: why the fuck would you use a hashmap for blocks
00:41 < Drainedsoul> that has arrays in it
00:41 < Drainedsoul> I don't
00:41 < Drainedsoul> I use a hashmap for columns
00:41 < Drainedsoul> ColumnID is X/Z/Dimension
00:41 < dav1d> oh the 16x16x16 chunks?
00:41 < tehme> column is what you call Chunk
00:41 < Drainedsoul> SmartPointer<ColumnContainer> points to a whole column
00:41 < dav1d> ah nvm then
00:41 < Drainedsoul> I don't care about chunks
00:41 < Drainedsoul> I just store columns
00:41 < dav1d> yeah I use an AA for these as well :>
00:41 < dav1d> sorry, my bad
00:42 < tehme> and yes
00:42 < Drainedsoul> my smart pointer is a custom one, using shared_ptr is what you'd want instead
00:43 < tehme> what do i lose in unordered map? access speed?
00:43 < Drainedsoul> unordered maps don't have the same kind of ordering maps do, you shouldn't lose access speed, but iirc you sh ould gain insertion speed
00:43 < dav1d> std::map is a RBT
00:44 < dav1d> and std::unordered_map is an hash map iirc
00:44 < Drainedsoul> I don't know a lot about std::map, but std::unordered_map is a pretty vanilla hash map
00:44 < Drainedsoul> so make a ColumnID class, that holds X/Z/Dimension
00:44 < Drainedsoul> specialize std::hash for it
00:44 < dav1d> std::map is a RBT :>
00:45 < Drainedsoul> you could use tuples, but that's unspeakably ugly
00:45 < Drainedsoul> yeah I've never had a reason to use it.  I just use unordered_map and unordered_set
00:45 < Drainedsoul> so I don't know a lot about what it is, or isn't
00:45 < Drainedsoul> o_O
00:45 < dav1d> RBT lookups are mostly faster
00:45 < dav1d> iirc
00:46 < dav1d> but it's too late for remembering
00:46 < tehme> Drainedsoul: what if i want array-like access? [chunkZ][chunkX]
00:46 < Drainedsoul> why in the name of God would you want that
00:46 < Drainedsoul> if that case, write a wrapper
00:46 < Drainedsoul> and use operator () so you can pass all three as a parameter
00:47 < tehme> is map of maps bad?
00:47 < Drainedsoul> it's not "bad", but you don't need it for this situation
00:47 < Drainedsoul> you're going to just incur a lot of indirections that you don't need to
00:47 < tehme> hmm
00:48 < dav1d> tehme: that only looks good, you will never actually need it
00:48 < Drainedsoul> especially since if yo'ure abstracting columns/chunks
00:49 < Drainedsoul> you shouldn't expose that abstraction
00:49 < Drainedsoul> because a block-based abstraction is more beneficial
00:49 < Drainedsoul> so only your implementation should be concerned about columns/chunks
00:49 < Drainedsoul> and defining an ID class for blocks/columns (which is what I did) allows you to expose member functions that abstract away finding which column a block is in, etc.
00:50 < Socolin> I personnaly use unordered_map with key like that: #define CHUNK_KEY(X,Z) (((((long long)X) << 32) & 0xffffffff00000000)| (((long long)Z) & 0x00000000ffffffff))
00:50 < tehme> god
00:50 < Drainedsoul> so you use C++ and use preprocessor macros
00:50 < Drainedsoul> your opinion doesn't matter
00:50 < Socolin> chunks[CHUNK_KEY(x,z)]
00:51 < tehme> i thought about something like this
00:52 < Drainedsoul> this is a work in progress, but just look at lines 23-490
00:52 < Drainedsoul> https://github.com/RobertLeahy/MCPP/blob/master/include/world/world.hpp#L23
00:53 < tehme> i like your comments
00:53 < Drainedsoul> and if someone tells you to use a preprocessor macro, for the love of God don't listen to them
00:53 < Drainedsoul> they're doxygen comments
00:53 < Drainedsoul> doxygen scans the headers and generates documentation for all the classes I can look at in my web browser
00:57 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: lol
00:57 < Drainedsoul> hmm?
00:57 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: pbunny would disagree
00:58 < Drainedsoul> anything a macro can do, an inline function or template can do just as well, and just as fast
00:58 < Drainedsoul> and they're infinitely more maintainable since they can be namespaced etc.
01:00 < tehme> Drainedsoul: but boost is full of macros
01:00 < Drainedsoul> I don't use boost
01:02 < tehme> why>
01:02 < tehme> ?
01:02 < Drainedsoul> why would I
01:03 < tehme> there are tons of nice things
01:03 < Drainedsoul> such as?
01:03 < Socolin> lockfree queue
01:03 < tehme> made by goos specialists
01:03 < Socolin> ^^
01:03 < tehme> good*
01:03 < tehme> so you don't have to reinvent a wheel
01:03 < tehme> and string algorithms
01:03 < Drainedsoul> you mean so when I want to distribute my application I have yet another dependency
01:04 < tehme> boost is mostly header-only
01:04 < tehme> so no
01:04 < Drainedsoul> so I have to distribute a bunch more headers with my application
01:04 < tehme> wut
01:04 < tehme> everyone have boost
01:05 < Drainedsoul> "everyone" is pretty inclusive
01:05 < tehme> i saw in your code that you don't even use std::swap
01:05 < tehme> why?
01:05 < Drainedsoul> where?
01:05 < tehme> somewhere
01:05 < tehme> i dont remember now
01:06 < Drainedsoul> I definitely use std::swap, and std::sort.
01:06 < tehme> heh
01:07 < tehme> and look at boost, you will like it:)
01:07 < Drainedsoul> I don't specialize std::swap, because this isn't C++98 anymore.  std::swap can std::move my things around on its own
01:07 < tehme> there were 3 lines swap:)
01:10 < tehme> shit, it loads too slow anyway
01:11 < tehme> well, let's try macro way:D
01:12 < tehme> Drainedsoul: if i make Column ID, wouldn't it be slow access?
01:14 < Drainedsoul> why would it be slow access?
01:14 < tehme> i can't imagine how to access to column by its coordinates without linear search
01:14 < Drainedsoul> hash map...
01:15 < tehme> something like col = columns[ColumnID(1, 1)];
01:15 < tehme> ?
01:15 < Drainedsoul> wat
01:15 < Drainedsoul> http://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/container/unordered_map
01:16 < Drainedsoul> http://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/utility/hash
01:16 < Drainedsoul> https://github.com/RobertLeahy/MCPP/blob/master/include/world/world.hpp#L368 here's a sample specialization of std::hash for a ColumnID class
01:17 < tehme> damn i'm a nob
01:17 < tehme> so unhashable type cannot be a key, right?
01:17 < Drainedsoul> what's an "unhashable" type
01:18 <+pdelvo> Im sure there is a way to do that if you can define a hash function for it
01:18 < tehme> type that has not hash specialization
01:18 < Drainedsoul> if you don't specialize std::hash, and there isn't a built-in std::hash, you can't use it as a key, no
01:19 < Drainedsoul> but you can just specialize std::hash.  I literally linked you to a std::hash specialization you can just copy/paste
01:19 < tehme> that is what i wanted to know
01:19 < tehme> how does it work?
01:19 < Drainedsoul> it's like 30 lines of code
01:19 < tehme> will it be ok on large coordinates?
01:19 < Drainedsoul> why wouldn't it be?
01:20 < tehme> too many bytes
01:20 < tehme> collisions
01:20 < Drainedsoul> it takes the X/Z/dimension, gets their bit layouts into an unsigned type, seeds the hash with 23
01:20 < Drainedsoul> and then multiplies the hash by 31, adds the X, multiplies by 31, adds the Z, multiplies by 31, adds the dimension
01:20 < Drainedsoul> there are going to be collisions, std::unordered_map will deal with that for you
01:20 < Drainedsoul> that's why the key type has to also define operator ==
01:21 < tehme> good
01:21 <+pdelvo> die hash does not have to be unique. it just has to be equal for inputs which are equal
01:21 < Drainedsoul> many different keys may map to the same hash value, but that doesn't make the keys "identical" from the PoV of the hash map.
01:21 < Drainedsoul> exactly what pdelvo said
01:22 < Drainedsoul> this is like, first-year Computer Science Data Structures & Algorithms, hash map lecture, the review
01:22 < tehme> why do you need dimension?
01:22 < Drainedsoul> because columns have dimension
01:22 < tehme> looks like i missed it
01:22 < Drainedsoul> nether, end, and overworld, at the bare minimum
01:22 < Drainedsoul> on a client you might not need that, but a server definitely does
01:22 <+pdelvo> if you want to get a hash from multiple items you can get a hash from usualy you use something like this: hash = hash(x1) ^ hash(x2) ^ hash(x3)...;
01:22 < tehme> oh
01:23 < tehme> yep
01:23 < Socolin> you can also store it in different world no ?
01:23 < tehme> ^
01:23 < Drainedsoul> why
01:23 < Socolin> entities must be separate too
01:23 < Drainedsoul> then I have to lookup the world, and then lookup the column in that world
01:23 < Drainedsoul> rather than just looking up the column in the multi-dimensional "world"
01:25 < Socolin> when you change something in a chunk, you know the world and you have it, so you don't need to lookup the world
01:25 < Drainedsoul> pdelvo: this is what I use http://stackoverflow.com/a/892640/1007504
01:25 < Drainedsoul> which is irrelevant.  If I change something in the chunk, I have the chunk, so I don't really care about anything else
01:25 < Drainedsoul> but if I want to find a chunk, you're introducing another lookup
01:38 < tehme> new knowledge comes with butthurt
01:44 < Drainedsoul> ?
01:47 < tehme> i didn't know much about maps
01:47 < tehme> and now i feel stupid because of this
01:51 < tehme> well...
01:51 < tehme> now server kicks me later
01:51 < tehme> looks like i do need a thread for sending position
01:53 < Drainedsoul> why would you waste a thread on that
01:54 < tehme> because even with starting threads for each 0x38 packet this blocks main thread for long enough for server to kick me'
01:54 < Drainedsoul> what blocks the main thread
01:54 < tehme> storing chunks
01:54 < tehme> is too long
01:55 < Drainedsoul> okay so why don't you implement a thread pool with a proper job scheduler
01:55 <+sadimusi> storing chunks takes more than 30 seconds?
01:56 < tehme> yep
01:56 < Drainedsoul> sounds like something is amiss
01:56 <+pdelvo> btw does someone other then me noticed a huge performance improvement in the snapshot? On the minecraftwiki changelist there is no hint that there was something changed
01:57 < Drainedsoul> did they fix zombie lag?
01:57 <+sadimusi> pdelvo: I tried it and the fps are about the same
01:58 <+sadimusi> (which is around 60; not sure where my pc is lacking…)
01:58 <+pdelvo> maybe you have vsync enabled n minecraft or in your driver settings?
01:59 <+sadimusi> vsync is disabled, but everything set to max
02:00 <+sadimusi> which is probably the default anyway
02:01 <+sadimusi> it uses almost no CPU, must be the graphics chip then
02:02 < tehme> damn
02:03 <+pdelvo> for me it is cpu limited. my gtx 780 is at 20% load. it doesnt get out of its power saving mode so it is downclocked
02:03 < tehme> can anyone look at my trash code and say whare am i wrong?
02:03 < tehme> where*
02:03 < Drainedsoul> wrong about what
02:03 < tehme> about chunk loading speed
02:03 < Drainedsoul> link?
02:03 < tehme> each column takes ~0.4 s
02:04 <+pdelvo> do you know how much vram you have? that could be the problem. it uses ~1,5gb of vram at render distance far
02:04 <+sadimusi> pdelvo: I'm running it on a macbook; so only geforce gt 650m…
02:05 <+pdelvo> oh okay. 
02:05 < tehme> https://github.com/tehme/outlaw/blob/master/include/client/chunk.hpp
02:05 < tehme> https://github.com/tehme/outlaw/blob/master/src/client/chunk.cpp
02:20 < Drainedsoul> I don't really understand why you're doing a lot of the things that you're doing
02:21 < Drainedsoul> why does each chunk have an array for biomes?  biomes are a per-column thing
02:21 < tehme> description was unclear
02:21 < tehme> i'll change it
02:22 < tehme> what's next?
02:22 < Drainedsoul> why are you using a "multi array" for the internal storage of a chunk?  that's a heap allocation/indirection you don't need -- chunks are a constant size
02:22 < tehme> should i make a flat array?
02:23 < Drainedsoul> that's what I would do, then you don't have this mess of indirection
02:24 < Drainedsoul> as a note: array is part of the STL now, so you can use std::array instead of boost::array
02:24 < Drainedsoul> you should use memset for your fillChunkWithAir implementation, that's going to be as fast or (very likely) much faster than your implementation
02:25 < tehme> i don't know if visual studio 2010 version of std::array good
02:26 < tehme> memset, you say...
02:26 < tehme> well, let's try
02:27 < Drainedsoul> http://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/string/byte/memset
02:27 < tehme> i know what it is:D
02:27 < Drainedsoul> ah okay
02:27 < Drainedsoul> people who haven't used C often aren't familiar with the functions that CPP inherited from the C standard library
02:28 < Drainedsoul> but memset is usually highly optimized.  Usually it's a compiler intrinsic
02:28 < Drainedsoul> in GCC in it
02:28 < Drainedsoul> *it is
02:29 < Drainedsoul> your hash for "ChunkColumnID"s is implemented incorrectly
02:29 < tehme> why?
02:29 < Drainedsoul> multiplying and adding are different steps
02:29 < Drainedsoul> it's multiply by 31, and then add x, and then multiply by 31, and then add y
02:29 < tehme> hm
02:30 < tehme> i did like in the post on stack overflow that you linked
02:30 < Drainedsoul> and you should use the anonymous union method from my code to switch between signed and unsigned, to maintain the bit representation
02:30 < dx> i know you guys are talking about really serious stuff but i wanted to point out that at a first glance i saw a letter "t" above Drainedsoul's nick and thought he changed his nick to "trainedsoul"
02:30 < Drainedsoul> o_0 lol
02:30 < tehme> SUDDENLY
02:30  * dx vanishes
02:31 < tehme> Drainedsoul: why is it better?
02:31 < Drainedsoul> iirc, the C++ standard defines the conversion from signed to unsigned as modulo arithmetic, which is not only slow-ish, but it doesn't preserve the bit representation
02:32 < tehme> hmm
02:32 < tehme> i'll measure time
02:32 < Drainedsoul> well there's also a uniqueness concern
02:33 < tehme> oh fuck man
02:34 < tehme> holy fucking fuck
02:34 < tehme> just changing to memset reduced time per column to 0.12 s from 0.4 s
02:34 < tehme> thank you
02:34 < tehme> now it's much better
02:35 < tehme> i'll remember this lesson
02:36 < Drainedsoul> are you compiling with optimization on or off (i.e. debug or release)
02:36 < tehme> debug
02:36 < Drainedsoul> if you change your data types around a bit, you can probably (in release mode) get MSVC++ to
02:36 < Drainedsoul> vectorize the block type loading loop
02:37 < tehme> how should i?
02:37 < Drainedsoul> especially if you tell MSVC++ that it can use AVX extensions where they exist (and your processor has them)
02:38 < Drainedsoul> I'd just change it over to a flat array inside the Chunk class.  That'll also cut out
02:38 < Drainedsoul> indirections and heap allocations
02:38 < Drainedsoul> and make sure you traverse your array in memory order
02:38 < Drainedsoul> to keep your cache hot
02:39 < Drainedsoul> you should go through both arrays in memory order.  Make sure each iteration of the loop always reads/writes adjacent values where possible
02:39 < Drainedsoul> otherwise you'll lose spatial locality
02:40 < tehme> let's try flat array and i'll go to sleep
02:40 < tehme> damn, today i learned more than last week
02:42 < tehme> how should i make wrapper function for this array? 2 versions of getter, ref and const ref?
02:43 < Drainedsoul> I would try to avoid using a getter/setter for writing to it while you're populating it
02:43 < Drainedsoul> unless it's trivial, and is either marked inline or is in the same TU
02:43 < tehme> i don't want to make offset magic outside of chunk class
02:44 < tehme> and if you say memory order... what if i make several arrays for each type of data? then i can just memcpy
02:44 < Drainedsoul> in order to make writing the chunk data out efficient, you're going to need to understand the underlying implementation
02:44 < Drainedsoul> so abstraction doesn't really make sense
02:45 < Drainedsoul> you could do that, but then you're mostly just copying mojang's format, which doesn't make a lot of sense once it comes time to access that same data
02:45 < Drainedsoul> related data should always be kept close together, preferably so close together that it all fits on a single cache line
02:46 < tehme> a thin line between performance and comfort
02:46 < tehme> i'm really impressed how memcpy fastened everuthing
02:46 < tehme> everything*
02:47 < Drainedsoul> yeah because memcpy is probably a compiler intrinsic
02:47 < Drainedsoul> and it only reads/writes contiguous memory
02:47 < Drainedsoul> that's about as fast as you can possibly get
02:52 < tehme> BlockData& get_blockData(int _x, int _y, int _z) { return  m_blocksData[_x + 16 * (_z + 16 * _y)]; }
02:52 < tehme> is it trivial enough?
02:52 < Drainedsoul> is it in the same TU as the code that's going to populate that array?
02:52 < tehme> what is TU?
02:53 < tehme> damn, i'll just overload operator[]
02:54 < Drainedsoul> Translation Unit
02:54 < tehme> or no...
02:54 < tehme> yes, it is
02:54 < Drainedsoul> I'd also mark it inline
02:55 < tehme> it's in header
02:55 < tehme> so it must already be inline
02:55 < tehme> can i overload operator[] for 3 args?
02:55 < Drainedsoul> also make sure that it'll traverse the array in the same order as the one you get from the server
02:56 < Drainedsoul> no you can't, operator [] can only be overloaded for 1 operator
02:56 < Drainedsoul> the standard mandates that commas inside operator [] are operator , not argument delimiter
02:58 < Drainedsoul> and if you're not going to actually store structures, that aggregate all the data about a block
02:58 < Drainedsoul> and you're just going to store things the way the server sends them
02:58 < Drainedsoul> definitely use memcpy
02:58 < Drainedsoul> but that's not really a good idea, imo, you should keep all information about a block close together
02:58 < Drainedsoul> for locality's sake
02:58 < tehme> i will
02:59 < tehme> is 3d array really such a problem?
02:59 < Drainedsoul> that depends how it's implemented
02:59 < Drainedsoul> if it's implemented as an array-of-arrays, it's a problem.  If it's a flat array, but you're traversing it "wrong" (i.e. out of memory order), it's a problem
03:03 < tehme> YZX
03:03 < Drainedsoul> yeah, so if it's laid out that way in memory, you need to make sure that it's traversed that way
03:04 < Drainedsoul> you can't jump all over the place, just access the next element in order in memory
03:04 < tehme> now i'll try flat array version
03:05 < Drainedsoul> I don't know how the boost multiarray is implemented under the hood.  At the very least it has to have a pointer to some block of memory to hold everything
03:06 < Drainedsoul> it may be an array-of-arrays, which would be very slow indeed, lots of calls to the heap manager, lots of indirections
03:09 < tehme> you are a fujjen genius
03:09 < tehme> fukken*
03:09 < tehme> ~0,01 s per column
03:10 < tehme> i lied
03:10 < tehme> 0.008
03:10 < tehme> thank you very much man
03:10 < Drainedsoul> ah yes, all hail locality and vectorization
03:10 < Drainedsoul> netime
03:12 < tehme> good night
03:12 < tehme> what time is it at your location?
03:13 < Drainedsoul> 18:13
03:13 < Drainedsoul> Pacific Standard Time
03:13 < Drainedsoul> Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
22:27 < tehme> yo su
22:27 < tehme> p
22:27 < tehme> hey Drainedsoul, are you here?
22:29 < tehme> how should i use flat array 256*16*16 as 3d array?
22:29 < tehme> const BlockData& getBlockByRelCoords(int _relX, int _relY, int _relZ) const{return m_columnData[_relY * 256 + _relZ * 16 + _relX];}
22:33 < Not-002> [mc4p] sadimusi pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/x4J8lQ
22:33 < Not-002> [mc4p] Simon Marti ede086f - Reverted license of authentication.py to WTFPL
22:33 < Not-002> [mc4p] Simon Marti 7d92a9d - Protocol version 75 (13w36a)
22:35 <+sadimusi> I don't seem to be able to figure out the new byte in 0x3E
22:36 <+sadimusi> it's usually 5 or 6 and when I set it to 1 the sound won't get played
22:36 <+sadimusi> all other values don't appear to have any effect
22:40 <+sadimusi> the source suggests sound category
22:43 < tehme> ask Grum?
22:44 <+sadimusi> where's the fun in that?
22:44 < tehme> lol
22:45 < tehme> i'm having fun with wrong coordinates
22:47 < Not-002> [mc4p] sadimusi pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/1FtaMg
22:47 < Not-002> [mc4p] Simon Marti 66a8216 - New field in 0x3E is sound category
22:49 < tehme> omfg x is y
22:49 < tehme> shit
23:03 < Thinkofdeath> sadimusi: Added to the pre-release page http://wiki.vg/Pre-release_protocol
23:15 <+sadimusi> Thinkofdeath: looks good, but could you add 0xc8 as well?
23:18 <+ammar2> oh fyi guys
23:19 <+ammar2> what I did last time for changed packets is
23:19 <+ammar2> I bolded the change
23:19 <+ammar2> its better for readability and easier for when it needs to be moved back to the main Protocol page
23:21 <+sadimusi> ammar2: a few people asked about those fields and nobody here had any idea why they were bold ;)
23:21 <+sadimusi> ammar2: somebody figured it out eventually though
23:30 <+sadimusi> Thinkofdeath: where did you get the categories from btw?
23:31 < Thinkofdeath> sadimusi: adk.class from 13w36b
23:33 <+sadimusi> Thinkofdeath: somehow JD-GUI completely omitted the values() method
23:34 < Thinkofdeath> Yeah it doesn't like enums much
23:38 <+SpaceManiac> Doesn't values() come from enum anyways
--- Day changed sam. sept. 07 2013
01:59 < shoghicp> The Creeper uses the index 16 in its metadata for the fuse
01:59 < shoghicp> is the TNT entity using the same index too?
03:59 < BigBlackBoris> Hey guys, is there a regex to remove everything from the "text" value in the JSON array from the packet 0x03? To get like username: message and not §fusername§f: §fmessage for example?
03:59 <+md_5> hm?
03:59 <+md_5> not sure what you mean
04:00 < BigBlackBoris> This Bukkit server that I'm testing on likes to send §fusername§f: §fmessage in the text value from packet 0x03
04:00 < BigBlackBoris> I need to parse it to get just "username: message"
04:01 <+md_5> like without the colour codes?
04:02 < BigBlackBoris> Without anything alphanumeric. I think Minecraft would really benefit from sending separate values in the JSON array for sender and message 
04:02 <+md_5> so.. without colour codes?
04:03 < BigBlackBoris> Basically.
04:03 <+md_5> BigBlackBoris : (?i)§[0-9A-FK-OR]
04:04 <+md_5> if your regex engine supports (?i) for case insensitivity
04:04 < BigBlackBoris> Is that not the same as what I'm doing here? /\\xA7[0-9A-FK-OR]/i
04:04 < BigBlackBoris> When I print the result of that I get "cConsolef  Place all items in chests before logging off", though.
04:04 <+md_5> what language is this?
04:04 <+md_5> \\xA7 might not be escaped correctly
04:04 < BigBlackBoris> Java using replaceAll
04:05 <+md_5> msg.replaceAll("(?i)§[0-9A-FK-OR]", "");
04:05 <+md_5> works fine for me
04:05 <+md_5> in java
04:05 < BigBlackBoris> let me try that
04:05 <+md_5> you should be using \u00A7 
04:05 <+md_5> not \\xA7
04:06 <+md_5> msg.replaceAll("(?i)\u00A7[0-9A-FK-OR]", "");  <-- works for me
04:06 < BigBlackBoris> Oh, okay. Eclipse told me that wasn't valid. I had to escape the backslash to beable to even run my code
04:06 < BigBlackBoris> Yeah, that works, thanks.
04:07 < Kyle> md_5: another happy customer
04:07 < Kyle> he joined #mindcrack for some reason lol
04:07 <+md_5> Kyle can I get a raise now
04:07 < BigBlackBoris> I joined #mindcrack because I didn't know where else to go xD
04:08 < Kyle> BigBlackBoris: definitely not there, only a few devs in there,
04:08 < BigBlackBoris> I was going to ask on SO but I figured I would ask on IRC first, tried #minecraft and it said I couldn't send the message or something and the only other minecraft-related IRC I knew off the top of my head was Mindcrack
04:11 < BigBlackBoris> Eugh, I don't think this is going to work. I'm trying to make a bot know when somebody chats and there is ranks for each user. If I use .contains anybody could easily send "John: !help" for example
04:12 < BigBlackBoris> there are*
04:12 <+md_5> I dont understand your issue
04:13 <+md_5> also something tells me a plugin would be better for what you want
04:15 < BigBlackBoris> md_5: I'm making a bot that uses the Minecraft protocol to connect to a server and idle, if someone sends a message prefixed with '!' the bot will parse the message, Each user has a role and will only be allowed to use certain commands. The way I plan on doing this is using 'contains' to check if the message contains "name: !help" for example. Maybe it'll be best to make a regex to capture both parts of the ':' like (\w*): (\w*)
04:16 < BigBlackBoris> third-party servers, I can't install plugins on them
04:16 <+md_5> why not
04:16 <+md_5> just split it
04:16 < BigBlackBoris> by the delimiter ':'?
04:16 <+md_5> String[] split = message.split(":",1); String username = split[0]; String message = split[1];
04:18 < BigBlackBoris> ok, thanks. I'll try that. Just out of curiosity, if servers have some sort of plugin like ChatManager to change the format of the message such as [Rank] [Name]: Message does that modify the text value in the JSON?
04:18 < BigBlackBoris> if yes, i'm going to have to rethink all my logic
04:18 <+md_5> of course
04:18 <+md_5> think about what your client sees
04:19 <+md_5> thats what you bot sees
04:19 < Kyle> md_5: this is what we told him lol
04:19 <+md_5> have you actually coded a bot yet
04:19 <+md_5> because the minecraft protocol
04:19 <+md_5> is pretty damn complicated
04:19 <+md_5> and if you can figure it out
04:20 <+md_5> I really think youshould be able to figure these trifles out
04:20 < Kyle> complicated? not for just parsing chat
04:20 < BigBlackBoris> I have the protocol all down and sorted. It connects to the server, can send messages, walk around
04:21 <+md_5> then how can you not figure this out
04:21 <+md_5> o.O
04:21 < BigBlackBoris> What I don't understand is, why use a JSON array for one value -_-. Would it not be easy for Mojang just to implement some extra values like Bukkit does? Like a message value and a sender value?
04:22 < BigBlackBoris> I can't figure this out because there's an infinite number of combinations that the format can be. I need to get the author and the message. What if the format was like [Admin] [John] Message, or John [Admin]: Message
04:23 <+md_5> dude
04:23 <+md_5> thats up to the server to decide
04:23 <+md_5> the server can send whatever it likes
04:23 <+md_5> eg I can make my server be
04:23 < Kyle> my question
04:23 <+md_5> %%%% OVERLORD %%% *** md_5 *** ::: This is My test message :::
04:23 < Kyle> why not just calibrate it per server?
04:23 < Kyle> have a regex configurable for each server it can connect to.
04:25 < BigBlackBoris> I'm trying to make it be as user friendly as possible without using any hacky solutions
04:25 <+md_5> dude
04:25 <+md_5> its a fact of life
04:25 < Kyle> it's minecraft
04:25 < BigBlackBoris> Like just running ./run 127.0.0.1 25565
04:25 <+md_5> that servers have diffferent chat styles
04:25 < Kyle> there *are no* hacky solutions
04:25 <+md_5> you cannot expect every server to be vanilla
04:25 < Kyle> ;)
04:25 <+md_5> plugins exist FOR customizing chat
04:27 < BigBlackBoris> I know, but it would be easy as shit for Mojang to just send the message and author as values in the JSON. It wont break any existing code and it will actually make use of the JSON. Dinnerbone's "new" chat system uses JSON for one value. Why not just send it plaintext? What's the point in using JSON for one value? It makes no sense to me
04:28 < BigBlackBoris> All the code is right there and ready for them to use. They just need to implement it
04:28 <+md_5> BigBlackBoris VANILlA DOES
04:28 <+md_5> BUKKIT DOES NOT
04:29 <+md_5>  / this server does not
04:29 < BigBlackBoris> sooo, why doesn't bukkit?
04:29 <+md_5> becaus
04:29 <+md_5> e
04:29 <+md_5> that 
04:29 <+md_5> would
04:29 <+md_5> break
04:29 <+md_5> every
04:29 <+md_5> single
04:29 <+md_5> plugin
04:29 <+md_5> in
04:29 <+md_5> existance
04:29 <+md_5> and
04:29 <+md_5> they would need to all be updated / patched/ rewritten
04:29 < BigBlackBoris> no
04:29 < BigBlackBoris> it
04:29 < BigBlackBoris> would
04:29 < BigBlackBoris> not
04:30 <+md_5> dude
04:30 < BigBlackBoris> explain how it would break every plugin?
04:30 <+md_5> because not EVERY message sent has a username
04:30 <+md_5> tell me how
04:30 <+md_5> you can make sendMessage(String)
04:30 < BigBlackBoris> send a blank author
04:30 <+md_5> suddenly include an arbitrary set of key value params
04:30 <+md_5> *head desk*
04:30 <+md_5> that defeats the entire purpose
04:31 <+md_5> you clearly do not think in the big scheme of things
04:31 < BigBlackBoris> I'm thinking as hard as I can
04:31 <+md_5> then every message becomes
04:31 <+md_5> <> test message
04:31 <+md_5> with blank author
04:31 <+md_5> do what we told you
04:31 <+md_5> and use a regex
04:31 < BigBlackBoris> Sending two extra values in a JSON array would break fuck all.
04:31 <+md_5> the vanilla translation files only contain <%s> for usernames anyway
04:31 <+md_5> so you would STILL need custom text
04:31 <+md_5> to get custom formatting
04:32 < BigBlackBoris> Exactly my point
04:32 < BigBlackBoris> Keep the text value
04:32 < BigBlackBoris> just send message and author along with it
04:32 <+md_5> that makes 0 sense
04:32 <+md_5> please leave now
04:32 < BigBlackBoris> No it fucking doesn't
04:32 < BigBlackBoris> 0x03 is a JSON array
04:33 < BigBlackBoris> with one value
04:33 < BigBlackBoris> "text"
04:33 < BigBlackBoris> send values "author" and "message"
04:33 < BigBlackBoris> explain how that would break anything
04:33 < BigBlackBoris> please, i'd love to know
04:38 < BigBlackBoris> md_5 http://wiki.vg/Protocol#Chat_Message_.280x03.29
04:42 < iBotPeaches> It would break everything
04:42 < iBotPeaches> and with that, im going to bed.
04:44 <+Amaranth> BigBlackBoris: See how the example has all of that other fancy stuff for translations and sending the text in parts?
04:44 <+Amaranth> That doesn't really work when the interface given to plugins is "this is the chat message going to the player"
04:45 <+Amaranth> And changing that interface means breaking the plugins
04:45 < BigBlackBoris> no, i mean, only send the author value when it's a player message
04:46 <+Amaranth> So send the whole raw text _and_ send the author?
04:46 < BigBlackBoris> yes but as different values in the array
04:46 <+Amaranth> Because the plugin interface it a literal "this is the raw text going to the client" not "here is the part the player wrote and we'll fill in the rest"
04:46 <+Amaranth> That is a breaking change
04:47 < BigBlackBoris> so what you're saying is it will only break chat modifying plugins
04:48 < BigBlackBoris> not every single plugin like md_5 said
04:48 <+md_5> dude
04:48 <+md_5> explain
04:48 <+md_5> how
04:48 <+md_5> you can alter the chat sending system
04:48 <+md_5> to use the new style
04:48 <+md_5> without breaking everything
04:48 <+md_5> you CANNOT
04:48 <+md_5> the new system doesnt even have colour codes
04:48 < BigBlackBoris> you managed to fucking do it when dinnerbone came along and changed everything to fucking JSON
04:48 <+md_5> rendering the ChatColor enum useless
04:49  * md_5 hits sadimusi and TkTech with a block
04:49 < iBotPeaches> The new JSON change took about 1.5 months for me, not something I want to do again
04:49 < iBotPeaches> not to mention it was borked and didn't have support for nested colors until a month later
04:49 <+Amaranth> BigBlackBoris: We managed it by pretending the new system is the old system and only using the text value in the JSON instead of the full capabilities :P
04:49 < iBotPeaches> Amaranth: I hope they never remove that :p
04:49 <+Amaranth> Well that's not quite true but close enough
04:49 < iBotPeaches> I just send all the stuff to old text field, formatted in old way :)
04:50 <+Amaranth> But the interface plugins are given is "here is the message the player is sending" and "here is the format string <%s> %s"
04:50 <+Amaranth> And the plugin is allowed to modify both in any way it wants and the server then combines them (if still applicable) and sends them off
04:51 <+Amaranth> Sending author and message separately and relying on the client to do the <%s> %s part doesn't let plugins put in prefixes and such
04:52 <+Amaranth> So yeah, changing to what you want would not only be a breaking API change for any plugin that is looking at chat it would also remove the ability to customize chat
04:55 < BigBlackBoris> well this is annoying
05:28 < ackpacket> So, if i'm understanding this correctly, a man in the middle attack will not work for a minecraft session stealer because a mitm involves intercepting keys and replacing with the attacker's keys to remain part of the conversation, but the mc client and server  authenticate with mohjang using a hash from the keys they receive, and a mitm will cause them to have different keys
05:29 < ackpacket> so they will contact mohjang with diferent hashes
05:42 <+md_5> ackpacket yup
05:43 < ackpacket> Well, that's good to know
05:43 < ackpacket> it would have been fun to make a session stealer, but i suppose the world is better off without one
05:56 <+md_5> ackpacket thats why encryption was implemented :p
06:09 < Drainedsoul> couldn't you alter a chat sending system without breaking anything by just implementing a parser?  Parse the old style to some intermediate representation, and then transform that into JSON
06:11 < Drainedsoul> having code just send string literals with the formatting codes in them though just smacks of a poorly-designed abstraction.  Code consuming an API shouldn't have to understand the way that API represents or transmits the data, that's the point of an API
11:30 < winny> http://jsfiddle.net/42EDX/10/
11:30 < winny> ^ to find a stronghold
13:36 < Morrolan> winny: Heh, nice.
13:36 < Morrolan> (Though I have to admit that I prefer just using the seed to calculate the positions :P)
13:36 < winny> where can I read about deriving stronghold positions from the seed?
13:40 < winny> are you referring to Skidoodle's work?
13:58 < Morrolan> I do not actually know how it's done. I've just stumbled upon a tool which calculated stronghol's position based on the seed, a while ago.
13:58 < Morrolan> AMIDST, yea, Skidoodle it is.
14:14 < shoghicp> Got explosions working on PocketMine-MP :D http://imgur.com/a/szAz5
14:22 <+sadimusi> shoghicp: that doesn't look right
14:25 < shoghicp> sadimusi: big explosions
14:25 < shoghicp> with power 80
14:25 <+sadimusi> cubic explosion?
14:25 < shoghicp> same as big PC Minecraft explosions
14:26 < shoghicp> let me find an image
14:26 < shoghicp> Sethbling had one in his videos
14:26 <+sadimusi> and what's up with those stripes?
14:26 < shoghicp> sadimusi: it is a single explosion, not multiple TNT blocks
14:27 < shoghicp> sadimusi: rays
14:27 <+sadimusi> I assumed as much
14:27 < shoghicp> http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/2990/20121103230905.png
14:28 < shoghicp> I'm using the same algorithm bukkit / mc uses
14:28 < shoghicp> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ow5GzfM_dI
14:28 < shoghicp> just at the start
14:28 <+sadimusi> I guess that works for smaller explosion radii
14:29 < shoghicp> yep
14:29 < shoghicp> they look like vanilla
14:29 < shoghicp> TNT power 4, this was a power 80 explosion
14:35 < shoghicp> sadimusi: normal TNT http://i.imgur.com/wnRxBqa.png
14:35 <+sadimusi> that look more like it
14:39 < shoghicp> force 20: http://i.imgur.com/amSJqWd.png
14:39 < shoghicp> power*
20:33 < BigBlackBoris> Has anyone got any experience with https://github.com/Steveice10/mc-protocol-lib ?
20:33 < BigBlackBoris> I've decided to use that instead of using the one I made
20:35 < BigBlackBoris> I can't seem to send movement packets
20:36 <+pdelvo> if you show us some code we might be able to help
20:37 < BigBlackBoris> I have no code to show. I can't get it to work. I'm checking if the packet is 0x0D in my Listener in onPacketRecieve, if it is run onPositionLook((PacketPlayerPositionLook) packet);
20:37 < BigBlackBoris> in there I'm trying to change x and z and then using client.send to send the packet but it doesn't seem to send to the server
20:41 <+pdelvo> have you tried a proxy to check if it sends it?
20:42 < BigBlackBoris> how would I go about proxying requests?
20:45 < iBotPeaches> https://github.com/sadimusi/mc4p
20:45 <+pdelvo> you can use mc4p: https://github.com/sadimusi/mc4p
20:45 <+pdelvo> lol :D
20:45 < iBotPeaches> :p
21:04 < BigBlackBoris> error: Setup script exited with error: Unable to find vcvarsall.bat
23:22 < TkTech> BigBlackBoris: You'll need to follow a python + windows guide.
23:22 < TkTech> BigBlackBoris: You're either missing VC++ or haven't finished setting everything up.
23:26 < BigBlackBoris> I've done it, I had to install it on Ubuntu though. I wouldn't get any packets sending apart from chat so I gave up
23:31 < Drainedsoul> Ugh, VC++, pls more MinGW :(
23:42 < dav1d> :(
23:42 < dav1d> I wonder why I needed a BIOS reset :(
23:43 < dav1d> luckily I guessed, that it's a BIOS issue. still damn windows 8, I blame YOU
23:47 < Drainedsoul> why are you using Windows 8, I think that's the more notable thing here ._.
--- Day changed dim. sept. 08 2013
00:21 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: got it cheap and yay CS:GO works like a charm
00:22 < dav1d> since the last steam update steam was unusable with my XP
00:22 < dav1d> also, everyone said it's bad, but I never really used it
00:22 < dav1d> now I can officially confirm, it sucks
00:22 < dav1d> I really like how you shutdown windows 8, you go into deksotp mode, press windowskey+r, open cmd
00:22 < dav1d> shutdown -s -t 00
00:28 < Drainedsoul> why didn't you just go to win7 ._.
00:55 < Drainedsoul> anyone have an idea of how long it takes the vanilla server to save a chunk or column to disk?  Or how I could go about benchmarking this myself?
07:25 < ahabs_ghost> sorta n00b question... what's [???] Invalid argument
07:26 < ahabs_ghost> i know python, i've read some of the mark2 code...
07:26 < winny> happens in socket programming, I don't recall exactly why
07:27 < ahabs_ghost> it fires about every 5 secs. not on my laptop, but on a "server"
07:27 < ahabs_ghost> is it something i can suppress via python logging config?
07:28 < winny> usually invalid argument is something worth investigating further
07:28 < winny> can represent a bug
07:30 < ahabs_ghost> it could easily be a permission thing with the setup... pip install of mark2 as root, but running as regular user?
07:33 < ahabs_ghost> oh, it looks like the previous one i had going under tmux hadn't acually stopped
07:39 < ahabs_ghost> that wasn't it... there isn't a lot of memory on this critter. could be lots o problems
07:39 < Drainedsoul> does the client actually do anything with the first field in 0x04?
07:39 < TkTech> ahabs_ghost: Is there a stack trace with that message?
09:21 < Drainedsoul> how does the client derive the phase of the moon
16:51 < ahabs_ghost> TKTech: no, no stack trace.
17:10 < ahabs_ghost> interesting, the service ping interval is 5 seconds, .. "grep -r 5 *" is a crude approach, but...
17:29 < ahabs_ghost> looking like maybe configuration/permissions error... i set up a new user to run the server, but a virtualenv as my own user
17:33 < ahabs_ghost> nope, i had been using MARK2_CONFIG set to a local dir
17:34 < ahabs_ghost> but changing the ping interval to 6 seconds shows that is the source of the Invalid Argument
17:53 < ahabs_ghost> hmm. server.log appears to have this:  [SEVERE] Reached end of stream for /127.0.0.1
17:56 < ahabs_ghost> and on shutdown i do have a java trace...  [???] java.net.SocketException: Socket closed
17:59 < ahabs_ghost> feels like a jdk related problem, but hitting a bug in the logging...
18:00 < ahabs_ghost> well, thats all for now, it's a great looking system, ill just have to get back to it another day
20:27 < Not-002> [mineflayer] zuazo pushed 4 commits to master [+0/-0/±4] http://git.io/qUJsUA
20:27 < Not-002> [mineflayer] pratham2003 03c57bf - Update entities.js Added swing boolean parameter. function attack(target, swing)
20:27 < Not-002> [mineflayer] pratham2003 1875f8d - Update entities.js Added swing parameter to attack function.
20:27 < Not-002> [mineflayer] pratham2003 cb72781 - Fixed indentation.
20:27 < Not-002> [mineflayer] zuazo 43dd5a3 - Merge pull request #160 from pratham2003/master Added boolean swing arm parameter to attack
21:15 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2203 4 files : Every log message now contains a 2-letter code identifying the log type (e.g. RC for RankChat, EE for error, IC for IrcChat, etc). Changed capitalization of IrcChat and IrcStatus logtypes (should not affect anything - config has case-insensitive parsing for this stuff).
21:31 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2204 6 files : Separated BuildingCommands from DrawCommands, since that class was getting way too huge.
23:06 < tehme> yoyoyo i finally made world representation that works
23:06 < tehme> http://imgur.com/6xls0Yy
23:06 < tehme> column height map
23:08 < tehme> http://imgur.com/Okx77EV
23:08 < tehme> og this place
23:08 < tehme> of*
23:19 < shoghicp> tehme: my client, early development stage: http://imgur.com/a/G32k7
23:38 < tehme> shoghicp: wow
23:38 < tehme> how early?
23:42 < Kassick> hey guys
23:43 < Kassick> has anyone ever tried netcatting into an MC server? I can't seem to figure this stuff out myself
23:45 < Kassick> My only goal here is to send a player list query to the server and get back the number of players online
23:46 < shoghicp> tehme: one year ago
23:46 < Thinkofdeath> Kassick: http://wiki.vg/Server_List_Ping might help
23:46 < tehme> i have a question
23:47 < Kassick> Thinkofdeath: I've been looking at that page but I feel like I may be doing something else wrong
23:47 < tehme> 0x38 is sent when player is teleported to admin
23:47 < tehme> wiki says:  you send this packet to update area surrounding player in the middle of the game, entities within the updated area may become unattackable
23:47 < tehme> oh
23:48 < tehme> i got it
23:48 < Kassick> Thinkofdeath: It's hex, so I'm assuming I need to escape it or format it in someway for NC to accept it
23:48 < Kassick> I get no response back and the server kills the connection whenever I try it
23:49 < tehme> shoghicp: do you plan 3d?
23:50 < shoghicp> tehme: It was a PHP client, but it is outdated since 1.5
23:50 < shoghicp> You can add anything to it
23:50 < tehme> why don't you update it?
23:51 < shoghicp> We used it on a server here in SPain to manage users, catch X-Rayers, FAQ bot, Player vs Bot, etc
23:51 < shoghicp> but I lacked the time, and somewhere it is failing on 1.5
23:51 < shoghicp> even after updating it
23:52 < tehme> shoghicp: how did you catch x-rayers?
23:54 < shoghicp> the bot ran commands to get block break stats, and created a list of the most ovbious ones. Then, when it was in the "mining" world, teleported to it being invisible and followed him analyzing the path followed (straight line, or putting fake blocks and logging what he did)
23:54 < shoghicp> then, it made a table with all the data, and humans reviewed it
23:55 < shoghicp> we catched ~5 per day, and the bot warned us when someone was in the action
23:55 < shoghicp> so we teleported too there
23:56 < shoghicp> it was really nice :D
23:56 < tehme> wow
23:56 < tehme> yep, some of them are easy to catch
--- Day changed lun. sept. 09 2013
00:19 < tehme> it is time-consuming, but if you want it, you can break anything having < 15 distance from wall to private end
00:20 < Kassick> Thinkofdeath: nevermind, I got it working, thanks
00:24 < woder> quick question on the way to auth for a client, what is "profile id" in token:<accessToken>:<profile ID>
00:30 < tehme> yo i have a question. server sends Block Change when vine grows. it seems to replace block type with type of vine
00:31 < tehme> is block being replaced, or just attached somehow?
00:31 < tehme> how do server and client know what block vine is on?
00:32 < tehme> and i saw replacement of air with air
00:32 < tehme> what the hell is this?
02:07 <+sadimusi> Kassick: you have to wait 5 seconds before connecting again
02:12 < Kassick> sadimusi: netcat wasn't staying open long enough to receive a response back
02:12 <+sadimusi> oh, ok then
08:09 < Shagrat> Hello
08:11 < Shagrat> Please http://wiki.vg/Pre-release_protocol 0xC8 explain format. Bad description
08:20 < Shagrat> Sorry understood
08:20 < Shagrat> 0xC8 = 0 - is reset statistic?
08:23 < Drainedsoul> what's your question?
10:45 <+Amaranth> clonejo: I thought I recognized that nick :D
10:46 <+clonejo> Amaranth: same here, I just wasn't quick enough to be the first to answer (mobile connection)
10:52 <+md_5> I feel I'm missing some context
10:52 <+clonejo> md_5: Amaranth discovered me in #rust@irc.mozilla.com
10:53 <+md_5> bloody rust
10:53 <+md_5> stupid language
10:53 < eddyb> lol
10:54 < eddyb> my biggest complaint is the Ruby-like block lambdas
10:54 <+md_5> lets just not talk about go
10:55 <+md_5> all these new fangled languages make me sad
10:55 < eddyb> Rust > Go. it just needs more love
10:57 < eddyb> it's typed, yet you don't see any explicit types in the example here http://www.rust-lang.org/
10:57 < eddyb> apart from the damn lambdas, it's pleasant to me, like ES6
10:57 < eddyb> and it doesn't go to the crazy end of the rainbow, like Haskell
10:58 <+md_5> I should really really learn another language proficiently
10:58 < t92> python
10:58 <+md_5> nothnks
10:58 < t92> lolwhy
10:58 <+md_5> realistically probably C++
10:59 < eddyb> lol python
10:59 <+md_5> since I can tie it in nicely with java
11:00 < eddyb> md_5: I hope you don't end up hating C++, like all the people who don't understand it
11:01 <+md_5> I wish there was a language which had ides as good as java :p
11:01 < t92> c#?
11:01 <+md_5> also dynamically typed languages are poopy
11:01 <+md_5> count them all out
11:02 < eddyb> kdevelop with C++, if you want to give it a try
11:02 <+md_5> netbeans with c++ m8
11:02 <+md_5> its actually really good
11:02 < eddyb> it has C++11 support now and it's almost as good as a Java IDE (which are good because Java is crap)
11:03 < t92> learn c/c++ md_5 
11:04 < eddyb> C/C++ is a bad thing to say
11:04 < SinZ> learn brainfuck md_5
11:04 < jast> can't wait to see Rust go stable
11:05 < t92> learn both though
11:05 <+md_5> it sucks that I dont know enough C that I have to get someone else to write this native code for me: https://gist.github.com/md-5/16d0bc3cdf2a8c1cbf95
11:05 <+md_5> thats mainly cause JNI is confusing though
11:05 < eddyb> C is pretty much useless these days
11:05 < t92> not true
11:05 <+md_5> C(++)[11]
11:05 < jast> nah
11:05 < eddyb> the only reason to use C is because bindings, and that's some fucked up thing
11:06 < t92> c++ abi's are not consistent so c is used
11:06 < jast> I have to admit that C++ is slowly becoming usable
11:06 < jast> as long as I don't have to use the STL
11:06 < SinZ> md_5: purebasic
11:07 < eddyb> jast: I've worked in a hobby OS project with a C++ kernel :D
11:07 < jast> good for you
11:08 < eddyb> apart from the lack of a simple C++ FFI, it's strictly superior
13:06 < tehme> oh, i see discussion about c++ *slowpoke.jpg*
13:48 < piracetam> **:00:55         eddyb | C is pretty much useless these days
13:48 < piracetam> air is pretty much useless these days
13:50 < piracetam> md_5: java is emulation of language, not language
13:50 < piracetam> you don't actually code program, you just describe jit how to code the program
13:50 < piracetam> unnecessary abstraction layer
13:51 <+sadimusi> piracetam: please don't start another senseless language debate
13:52 < dx> air is useless since adobe dropped linux support
13:52 < SinZ> ^
13:52 < eddyb> dx <3
13:53 < t92> i breathe air
13:53 < t92> .-.
13:53 < piracetam> sadimusi: ok, but he started it - "**:57:08         +md_5 | I wish there was a language which had ides as good as java :p"
13:53 < piracetam> t92 ++
13:55  * Fador is coding HEVC encoder in C89 and Assembly at work
13:55 < dx> Fador: fun!
13:55 <+Fador> dx: sure ;)
13:56 < dx> Fador: so you're in charge of making it suck less than the reference implementation?
13:56 < dx> i know very little about it, but mostly heard that it's slooooow
13:56 <+Fador> dx: well there's also that x265 project ;D
13:57 <+Fador> we are mostly doing research on HEVC..
13:57 < dx> also fun!
13:58 <+Fador> https://bitbucket.org/multicoreware/x265/wiki/Home <- they also use the reference implementation as the base of their encoder
16:10 < Drainedsoul> Why would you use C++ and not use the STL
16:32 < tehme> great c++ adept is here!
17:31 < TkTech> Drainedsoul: Because internally most STL implementations are a mess, some have obscure bugs (looking at you VC++), often don't perform optimally, platform inconsistencies, and debugging them is a total bitch.
17:38 < eddyb> "VC++" it's not like you're supposed to use it :P
17:41 < tehme> oh lol resease is turbomode
22:22 < Drainedsoul> why are you debugging the STL unless you're an STL developer?
23:08 <+clonejo> That moment when you read man pages and you know the people in the author's section
23:18 <+clonejo> s/author's/authors/
23:19 < brainiac94> greetings
23:42 < tehme> yoyoyo
23:45 < brainiac94> have you heard of the authentication glitch in CB?
--- Day changed mar. sept. 10 2013
00:04 < tehme> tell us
00:44 < brainiac94> I cannot tell you much about how it works, but it abuses 0x02 packets and allows the attacker to login with any user name.
00:44 < brainiac94> It works on a CB without plugins and the only evidence it leaves is this line in the server log:
00:44 < brainiac94> class net.minecraft.server.v1_6_R2.PlayerConnection wasn't prepared to deal with a class net.minecraft.server.v1_6_R2.Packet2Handshake
05:36 < Drainedsoul> can anyone give me some details on time?
05:36 < Drainedsoul> i.e. at what tick is midnight?
08:34 < benbaptist> Drainedsoul, I believe 12000 is the precise midnight time, if that's what you mean. 
10:14 <+md_5> hm
10:15 <+md_5> has anyone here ever used any 'other' protocols, for networking, ie not udp/tcp
10:15 <+md_5> or some framework ontop of udp with support for ack'ing + connections
11:50 <+md_5> jast yeah, or UDT
11:50 <+md_5> SCTP too
14:31 < amadornes> Hello. Is there any way to deactivate "java.cli.D.jline.terminal=jline.UnsupportedTerminal" and activate "--nojline" from Bukkit/Spigot? It makes my server use 40% CPU vs the 2% with the Bukkit "--nojline"
14:52 < amadornes> Any ideas?
18:58 < tehme> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fqx7zQJvLVU
19:12 < Kaspars_Raoulfr> Hello everyone, Kaspars_Raoulfrhere and i'm here and ready to DDoS.
19:19 < tehme> sup
19:31 -!- Kaspars_Raoulfr was kicked from #mcdevs by TkTech [Your behavior is not conducive to the desired environment.]
--- Day changed mer. sept. 11 2013
04:05 < Serin_> Hi
04:06 < Serin_> What's the point of transactions for the UI?
04:06 < Serin_> They seem to be completely meaningless
04:06 < Serin_> Nothing responds to a success/failure on transactions, the server just follows up with 0x68 SetSlot to sync the inventory state
04:07 <+sadimusi> doesn't 0x6A get sent anymore?
04:08 < Serin_> It's sent, but nothing actually uses it
04:08 < Serin_> Nothing happens regardless of what data is in that packet
04:08 < Serin_> Afaik
04:08 <+sadimusi> iirc the server doesn't send any 0x68 for most transactions
04:08 <+sadimusi> it was originally meant to handle conflicts when multiple players access the same container
04:08 <+sadimusi> but it might not be used anymore
04:09 < Serin_> >X might not be used anymore
04:09 < Serin_> >minecraft protocol in a nutshell
04:09 <+sadimusi> pretty much
04:12 <+sadimusi> yeah, it really looks like it just sends back a packet in some cases
04:12 <+sadimusi> and does nothing else
04:13 < Serin_> There's this on the server side, but I'm not really sure what the point is
04:13 < Serin_> this.playerEntity.openContainer.setPlayerIsPresent(this.playerEntity, true);
04:13 < Serin_> You would think it would be inferred which players are there by which ones you let open the inventory in the first place...
04:15 <+sadimusi> playerEntity.openContainer is always a container the player has opened, so I'm not sure either what it does
04:17 < Serin_> Oh well, my implementation was already working, I just wanted to double check that doesn't do anything
04:17 < Serin_> Thanks for your help
04:17 < Serin_> I have one other question
04:17 < Serin_> What actually produces the beacon beam effect?
04:17 < Serin_> Is that a BlockAction?
04:17 <+sadimusi> isn't it just the block itself?
04:18 < Serin_> No
04:18 < Serin_> You have to make a stack of iron/gold/diamond blocks and set it up first
04:18 < Serin_> Otherwise there's no beam
04:18 < Serin_> Block action would be my shot in the dark, but if it is it's not listed on wiki.vg
04:18 < Serin_> Just thought I'd ask while I happen to be here
04:18 <+sadimusi> well it's certainly easy to find out if you're right
04:20 < Serin_> Doesn't look like a block action, I'll look into it real quick
04:22 <+sadimusi> definitely not block action
04:25 <+sadimusi> might be 0x84
04:26 <+sadimusi> yes, with action set to 3
04:26 <+sadimusi> I assume the effects are listed as NBT in the data field
04:27 < Serin_> Yep, that's it
04:28 < Serin_> Do you know of a decent program to view Minecraft traffic in human readable form?
04:28 < Serin_> I've been dumping it with an MCP mod and reading the dump with a Python parser on shell
04:30 <+sadimusi> there are a few proxies
04:30 <+sadimusi> I use and maintain mc4p, but its log plugin is still not that great
04:30 <+sadimusi> there's also SMProxy
04:30 <+sadimusi> not sure if that's up to date though
04:31 < Serin_> I think it isn't
04:31 < Serin_> Seems to be 1.6.1
04:31 < Serin_> Shouldn't be hard to update though
04:31 <+sadimusi> what os are you using?
04:31 < Serin_> Windows on my dev machine
04:32 < Serin_> With Cygwin
04:32 <+sadimusi> then smproxy might be a bit easier to install
04:32 < Serin_> What's mc4p written in?
04:32 <+sadimusi> python
04:32 < Serin_> Python is my main language, so that's preferable
04:32 <+sadimusi> https://github.com/sadimusi/mc4p
04:32 < Serin_> I was under the impression that was designed for servers
04:33 < Serin_> Neat
04:33 < Serin_> Thanks
04:33 <+sadimusi> I'm not sure what the original author designed it for
04:33 <+sadimusi> but I think it would be too slow for a decent server
04:34 < SinZ> SMProxy can work for servers iirc
04:34 < SinZ> I doubt mc4p can though
04:35 <+sadimusi> SMProxy's scripting capabilities are probably not rich enough for a server
04:36 < SinZ> yoshis work on making mc4p work for connecting to classic servers via smp client is nice though
04:36 < SinZ> shame the conversion of maps take time
05:02 < Serin_> for that matter
05:02 < Serin_> is there any reason to have window IDs besides the separation of player inventory from everything else?
05:02 < Serin_> from open/close window packets server knows what window object is open, that seems unnecessary
06:29 < benbaptist> My string packing implementation seems to be really flakey, it seems it crashes the game sometimes at random when sending 0x03 packets
06:30 < benbaptist> Are the actual sizes of strings always double the "length" value (the short you receive before a string), or is it not consistent?
06:32 < Serin_> it uses two bytes for each character
06:32 < Serin_> so length will always be the number of characters * 2
06:32 < benbaptist> yeah
06:32 < benbaptist> I wasn't sure if maybe some characters were only one byte at times or not
06:33 < benbaptist> I noticed that occasionally the client crashes with a JSON error while sending the 0x03 packet despite my JSON being completely fine, and while I receive the chat messages just fine, sometimes various strings from the client such as the 'plugin message' packet are cut off. 
06:34 < benbaptist> e.g. when the client sends the packet for polling the MOTD and stuff, the channel name is "MC|PingHos" with the t cut off
06:34 < benbaptist> I'm in python using the struct module, not sure if .unpack('>h') is enough or not to receive the short or if something else is broken
06:51 < libminecraft> [libminecraft] yuri-sevatz pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/yuri-sevatz/libminecraft/commit/6a2b02fb42e666a5b5b785adcf6151adba870098
06:51 < libminecraft> libminecraft/master 6a2b02f Yuri Sevatz: Add gitignores for KDevelop projects
07:05 < SinZ> wow, a github bot, rather than notifico
07:10 < dx> what's so "wow" about it?
07:11 < SinZ> suprising, for this channel atleast
07:11 < dx> oh
07:11 < dx> it's just someone who didn't read the channel rules, that's not surprising to me :D
14:06 < Yoshi2> SinZ: I think the conversion of classic maps into SMP format is slow because of my pure python code
14:35 < barneygale> Looking for advice on a problem I've never tackled before. I want to add incremental backups of minecraft worlds to a new server wrapper I'm writing. Any advice on a scheme? Simplest would be per-region, but per-chunk might also be possible if I used the first n bytes of the compressed data as a checksum, maybe?
14:36 < barneygale> wondering about file format, options/capabilities/config
14:37 < dx> http://rdiff-backup.nongnu.org/ ?
14:39 < barneygale> uses hardlinks iirc, which would limit it to per-region
14:39 < barneygale> that might not be so bad though
14:40 < barneygale> ah maybe I'm getting mixed up, nvm that ^
14:40 < dx> yeah, not sure what you were thinking :D although it is sort of limited per-region
14:40 < dx> per-file, rather
14:45 < dx> (i haven't actually used this by itself, instead i regularly overwrite my remote backups with rsync, which is the same thing for network transfer but without saving incremental backups)
15:38 < Blagun_Cibran> Hello everyone, Blagun_Cibranhere and i'm here and ready to DDoS.
15:39 -!- Blagun_Cibran was kicked from #mcdevs by sadimusi [Your behavior is not conducive to the desired environment.]
16:08 < shoghicp> Who was that?
16:09 < shoghicp> let me guess, LOIC?
16:09 <+sadimusi> another one of those bots
16:09 <+sadimusi> possibly
16:10 < shoghicp> :s
16:14 <+sadimusi> shoghicp: weren't you around when this happend? http://d.pr/n/jbfS
16:14 < shoghicp> lol, no
16:15 < shoghicp> Litespeed was the manager?
16:15 <+sadimusi> yes
16:15 <+sadimusi> and Sonjay
16:17 < shoghicp> :s
16:18 < shoghicp> That reminds me of people evading a ban on #mcpedevs to request the lif of their ban
16:18 < shoghicp> lift*
23:45 < ZenovaCreations> you should check out my new animation
23:45 < ZenovaCreations> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zx5Mngfsezo
--- Day changed jeu. sept. 12 2013
00:15 <+Prf_Jakob> TomyLobo: http://i.imgur.com/px6Z1za.gif
00:15 <+Prf_Jakob> err
00:15 <+Prf_Jakob> ops
00:15 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: ^
00:26 < SinZ> wow
11:59 < tehme> yo
11:59 < tehme> help me please
11:59 < tehme> what is the general word for widht and height? bounds?
11:59 < tehme> width*
11:59 < jast> it's the word I'd use, at least
12:02 < zutto> dimensions?
12:03 < zutto> bounds, boundaries, dimensions.. someone can probably toss in few others
12:05 < tehme> well, let it be "bounds" for now
12:06 < tehme> programming is not building, change is easier:)
12:06 < zutto> i'm more used to "dimensions" word, but bounds is fine if you feel comfortable with it
12:08 < eddyb> "bounds" make sense in a context such as AABB (axis-aligned bounding box)
12:54 < winny> 10 DIM ARY(10)
16:08 < tehme> http://imgur.com/kN8MpUj
16:09 < tehme> first attempts to make interface
16:09 < tehme> with lua api
16:10 < eddyb> lol, lua
16:17 < tehme> yep
16:18 < tehme> do you like it?:)
21:53 < breezeyboy> Hi
21:54 < breezeyboy> How do I change the minecraft version?
21:59 <+pdelvo> of what?
21:59 < breezeyboy> the server
22:01 < dx> use a hex editor and replace all entries of 1.6.2 with 1.7
22:01 < dx> (that was a dumb joke don't take it seriously)
22:02 < dx> also, hi #mcdevs, i was away because my internet connection sucks today. did i miss any discussion on the new json chat extensions?
22:03 < dx> i sure wish the 'public logs' were actually public
22:07 < breezeyboy> No help?
22:08 <+AndrewPH> dx: I don't think you missed anything at all
22:08 < dx> cool, thanks.
--- Day changed ven. sept. 13 2013
02:16 < mbaxter> sadimusi: ammar2 tells me you're the one to poke about b.wiki.vg not having latest snapshot. So uh, poke. :)
02:17 <+sadimusi> mbaxter: gr.um refactored quite a lot of the codebase, it'll take some time before burger works again
02:18 <+sadimusi> but if you're just interested in the protocol, that part still works fine
02:19 <+sadimusi> the protocol didn't change in the snapshot today
02:20 <+sadimusi> however, the version is now 76
02:22 < tehme> omg changes changes
02:22 < tehme> my client will never be finished
02:23 < Kyle> tehme: the reality of minecraft eh
02:23 < tehme> i hope they will add message size field
06:37 < SinZ> I quite like the new stuff we can do in the chat json now ^.^
06:48 <+fragmer> Happy programmers' day
06:48 <+fragmer> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programmers%27_Day :D
06:49 < SinZ> yay, an excuse for why I didn't go to school today
11:31 < dx> so #mcdevs
11:31 < dx> my minecraft server is getting even more dead than before
11:33 < dx> a few people still play, but it's idling most of the time, and since it relies entirely on donations, i won't be able to keep it up for much longer
11:34 < dx> so i had this GENIUS AND COMPLETELY ORIGINAL IDEA. pay for the server by hour, and use a proxy server (in my other cheaper VPS) to get players to turn the server on when they want to play.
11:36 < winny> maybe you could hook it into inetd haha
11:37 < dx> it's more about nuking the instance and re-starting it from a snapshot, then having 'something' so the players can wait for it to start
11:37 < dx> but i can't help but think that this has been done before. has it?
11:48 < SomeoneWeird> what was the website that showed differences between protocol versions?
11:49 < dav1d> b.wiki.vg
11:49 < dx> but it's not updated for the snapshot due to refactoring of the minecraft code
11:51 < dx> but i think you could run burger yourself to get only protocol changes
11:52 < Yoshi2> dx: I do think that your idea is not entirely original, I've heard of at least one instance where somebody made something like that
11:52 < Yoshi2> but it was very long ago, sooo
11:52 < Yoshi2> go for it! :D
11:53 < dx> :D
11:55 < SomeoneWeird> dav1d, cheers!
11:59 <+md_5> dx 
11:59 < dx> md_5
11:59 <+md_5> a) servers charge when they are off
11:59 <+md_5> b) generally in 1 hour slices
12:00 < dx> 06:37 < dx> it's more about nuking the instance and re-starting it from a snapshot, then having 'something' so the players can wait for it to start
12:00 <+md_5> c) even the fastest servers take 60 seconds to provision (DO)
12:01 < dx> DO = digitalocean?
12:01 <+md_5> yah
12:02 < dx> well that doesn't sound too bad
12:02 < winny> it should be easy to write a simply inetd style service that shuts down servers that are inactive for say 5 minutes
12:02 < winny> simple*
12:02 < dx> why inetd
12:02 <+md_5> he means the entire vps
12:02 < winny> style
12:02 < dx> and ^md_5
12:03 < zutto> md_5: clouds dont charge per hour ;l
12:03 < dx> not java, but removing the entire instance and the allocated disk
12:03 < winny> clouds charge for actual usage :P
12:03 < zutto> ^
12:04 < zutto> so if your server is active for lets say 2 hours per day
12:04 < zutto> you could keep it up for quite cheap
12:04 < dx> >Amazon Elastic Compute Cloud (Amazon EC2) and Amazon Relational Database Service (Amazon RDS) instances accrue hourly charges as soon as you launch the instance, and continue accruing until you explicitly terminate the instance. If you launch an instance and then sign out of your account without terminating the instance, it will continue running and accruing charges
12:05 < zutto> wait, they moved away from the execution cycles?
12:05 < dx> digitalocean: >Your diskspace, CPU, RAM, and IP address are all reserved while your Droplet is powered off. If you want to save a Droplet for future use take a snapshot of it and then destroy it
12:06 < dx> rackspace: >If I am not using my server or do not have traffic to it, do I still have to pay for it?  Yes. Currently the server would either be running or you would have to delete it altogether
12:07 < dx> aaand that's all the 'cloud' hosting services i know
12:08 < zutto> i could guess that lw also offers some sort of cloud, and ovh does too
12:13 < dx> md_5: so yeah, it's probably going to be ugly, but i can't afford anything else (and sounds like a fun project, too)
12:20 <+md_5> dx if you have people on your server at least once an hour
12:20 <+md_5> you wont save any money
12:21 <+md_5> if you are short of csah
12:21 < dx> md_5: i have a total of 2 active players, only one of them logs in regularly
12:21 <+md_5> I highyl suggest digital ocean
12:21 <+md_5> I run Minecraft instances for 6 hours or so on them
12:21 <+md_5> works out great
12:21 < dx> neat.
12:21 <+md_5> $10/month if you want to go full time
12:21 <+md_5> 1gb ram is more than enough for 2 players
12:22 < dx> thing is, i had peaks of 6 players... during summer.
12:23 <+md_5> can you afford 3 cups of coffee a month?
12:23 < dx> everything pretty much died after classes started
12:23 < dx> lol
12:23 < dx> actually, personally i can't!
12:24 <+md_5> :(
12:24 < dx> i have no reliable way to pay for it myself
12:24 < zutto> md_5: how much are you paying for that 6 hours or so for the servers on DO?
12:24 <+md_5> zutto let me grab you my bill
12:25 < dx> but i got $40 left in the server donations box, so i'm trying to spread the butter reaaally thin
12:25 <+md_5> (s)
12:25 <+md_5> I dont use it much
12:25 <+md_5> zutto I have spent 16c in total
12:25 < zutto> 16c?
12:25 <+md_5> sorry + 29
12:25 < zutto> 0.29$?
12:25 <+md_5> 45 cents
12:25 <+md_5> yeah
12:25 <+md_5> 0.45$
12:25 < dx> what period of time?
12:26 < dx> just one day, 6 hours?
12:26 <+md_5> http://files.md-5.net/s/yd8Gb.png
12:26 <+md_5> http://files.md-5.net/s/ZBsGV.png
12:26 <+md_5> http://files.md-5.net/s/JZ38U.png
12:26 <+md_5> http://files.md-5.net/s/Mjrie.png
12:27 < dx> oh, so, basically, 45 cents on all your servers ever
12:27 < dx> lol.
12:27 < zutto> thats pretty cheap, i gotta admit
12:27 <+md_5> I use it when I want to test stuff
12:27 < dx> noticed
12:27 < zutto> gotta remember that site, i have times when i need to rent computing power from people ;l
12:28 <+md_5> or on the odd occasion portscan a host or two
12:28 <+md_5> :s
12:28 <+md_5> dont tell them that
12:28 < zutto> why not? :P
12:28 < zutto> they're servers ment to compute stuff
12:28 < dx> speaking of which, RIP http://instantserver.io/
12:28 <+md_5> > portscan
12:28 <+md_5> > legal
12:28 < dx> portscans aren't legal?
12:28 < zutto> oh right
12:28 < dx> that's news to me
12:29 <+md_5> well
12:29 <+md_5> > portscan
12:29 < zutto> i dont think thats illegal
12:29 <+md_5> > AUP / TOS
12:29 < dx> heh, okay then
12:30 <+md_5> http://imc.io/
12:30 <+md_5> :o
12:30 <+md_5> they use spigot
12:31 < dx> the price to extend for 6 hours is "f"
12:32 < dx> is that 15 or a "fuck you"?
12:32 <+md_5> dx looking at the src
12:32 <+md_5> its meant to be a fcebook like
12:33 < dx> oh
12:33 < dx> so the latter
12:33 < dx> md_5: also, wait, can you really do 24 players on 512mb ram?
12:33 <+md_5> not quite
12:33 < dx> okay, cool. there was no way spigot would be that good
12:33 <+md_5> you could get very close
12:33 < zutto> dx: you can if you have no plugins ;l
12:33 <+md_5> maybe 18
12:33 < dx> md_5: ...lol
12:34 <+md_5> but 24 is a stretch
12:34 <+md_5> sure if they were all at spawn
12:34 <+md_5> or view distance was 3
12:34 <+md_5> but with a view distance of 10, and all spread out, no
12:35 < dx> sadly my 'most active' server is FTB, and it's pretty bad at resource usage
12:39 < zutto> damn you md_5 
12:40 < zutto> i got all excited for these hourly servers now
12:40 < zutto> just thinking about all the stuff i could do with just few cents
12:42 < dx> :D
12:44 < zutto> i'm in process of building load balanced c# framework, these servers would be perfect for testing ;l
12:44 < dividuum> hi. I wrote a minecraft client (based on mc4p) and use Yggdrasil authentication. Now each time this client logs in, my normal minecraft clients ask for credentials when starting up. why?
12:45 < dividuum> according to the Authentication page on the wiki, logging in should only invalidate other accesstokens, when i'm not providing a client token myself (which i do)
12:45 < dividuum> any hints?
12:47 <+md_5> are you using the same client token each time?
12:47 < dividuum> not yet (i'm not keeping state at the moment)
12:48 <+md_5> you might have to
12:48 <+md_5> not sure
12:48 < dividuum> but even if i log in only once with my client, the normal minecraft client cannot log back in.
12:49 < dividuum> for me that looks like access tokens are invalidated every time i use the yggdrasil /authenicate url
12:53 < dividuum> just tested: using the same client token didn't help. the normal minecraft client still says "You're already logged in as xxxx in another profile"
12:56 < dividuum> hm. in authentication.py, there is an api endpoint /signout (no documentation on this on the wiki). maybe i have to signout one client before using the other. i'll test that
13:05 < tehme> how can i determine which blocks do i need to render?
13:05 < tehme> is there any algorithm better that brute force?
13:08 <+md_5> tehme http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viewing_frustum
13:08 <+md_5> you should have a good understanding of opengl and stuff like culling before attempting to re create a game such as minecraft
13:09 <+md_5> http://zeuxcg.org/2009/01/31/view-frustum-culling-optimization-introduction/
13:09 <+md_5> http://fgiesen.wordpress.com/2010/10/17/view-frustum-culling/
13:09 <+md_5> alternatively for now, you can just let it do it for you: http://r3dux.org/2011/02/how-to-perform-manual-frustum-culling/
13:09 <+md_5> but it will be slow
13:18 <+Amaranth> Eh, a chunk based system makes such things simple
13:20 <+Amaranth> Sending a little extra data isn't a big deal so just check if any part of the chunk is in bounds instead of trying to do something more fine grained
13:24 <+sadimusi> dividuum: do you refresh your access token?
13:25 < dividuum> no
13:25 < dividuum> i didn't do that yet, since the normal minecraft client already fails to login after my client once
13:25 <+sadimusi> there must be something wrong with your code
13:25 < dividuum> *after my client logged in once
13:26 < dividuum> probably :-}
13:26 <+sadimusi> I use mc4p with the -a flag all the time and mc logs in fine afterwards
13:27 < dividuum> i guess that uses the credentials stored by the normal client
13:27 <+sadimusi> yes
13:27 < dividuum> without having looked what happens exactly, i guess that reuses the clienttoken and accesstoken generated by the normal minecraft client
13:28 <+sadimusi> yes
13:28 < dividuum> unfortunatelly this is not possible for my project
13:28 <+sadimusi> right
13:28 < dividuum> i'm trying to login to minecraft on behave of a user
13:28 <+sadimusi> so you generate a client token yourself?
13:28 < dividuum> yes
13:29 <+sadimusi> is your code available anywhere?
13:29 < dividuum> no. but i can put a minimal version of it
13:29 < dividuum> you're the author of mc4p, right?
13:29 < dx> *cough* gpl *cough*
13:30 <+sadimusi> the original author is mmcgill, but I've been maintaining it for some time now
13:30 < dividuum> thanks for that :-)
13:32 < dx> oh hey, pre-release of 1.6.3, i wasn't expecting that
13:32 < SinZ> the pre-release is just as a world conversion basically for 1.7, right?
13:33 < dx> seems to be, but i wonder if it has other interesting bugfixes
13:34 < dx> well nevermind
13:34 < dx> the tracker says it's just one ticket https://mojang.atlassian.net/browse/MC-15547
13:35 <+sadimusi> burger doesn't detect any changes either
13:35 <+sadimusi> expect for the protocol version which is now 77
13:36 < dx> supicious!
13:36 < dx> *suspicious
13:37 < SinZ> huh, why would the protocol jump
13:37 < SinZ> you would think they would try to keep it compatible
13:38 < dx> sadimusi: what is burger checking? protocol packets only?
13:38 < dx> or are there other functional toppings?
13:39 < zutto> md_5: how does this DO actually charge you?
13:39 < zutto> i made account and transfered 10$ to it, started new droplet for 3 minutes and shut it down -> made snapshot and destroyed it
13:39 < zutto> i cant see that it would have charged me anything
13:39 < zutto> yet
13:40 <+sadimusi> dx: all toppings are working
13:40 <+sadimusi> dx: just a few strings in the language files changed
13:40 < dx> sadimusi: i thought stuff was broken due to a refactoring, or did you fix everything already?
13:40 <+sadimusi> there's a new "/setidletimeout <Minutes until kick>" commad
13:40 <+sadimusi> *command
13:40 <+sadimusi> dx: it's broken in the snapshots, but 1.6.3 still uses the old codebase
13:40 < dx> ..oh, right
13:41 < dx> cool, then
13:43 < dividuum> sadimusi, https://gist.github.com/anonymous/6078924aae090d0ba4c8
13:50 <+sadimusi> dividuum: can't see anything wrong with it
13:51 < dividuum> try login in with it. then open your minecraft launcher. it will ask you for your password
13:55 <+sadimusi> I can reproduce it
13:58 < dividuum> your minecraft launcher doesn't ask you for credentials after logging in with the python program?
14:09 <+md_5> zutto it takes an hour or two before it goes through
14:10 <+sadimusi> dividuum: I think it's just a stupid mistake on my side
14:12 < zutto> ah i see
14:13 < dividuum> so the laucher asks for credentials?
14:13 <+sadimusi> [13:55:21] +sadimusi: I can reproduce it
14:13 <+sadimusi> yes
14:14 < dividuum> oops. ok. misread that. sorry
14:14 <+sadimusi> my fix doesn't seem to help much :/
14:14 <+sadimusi> did you already fix the _random_token method yourself? it didn't return anything
14:14 < dividuum> yeah. sent you a pull request 4 minutes ago :-)
14:14 <+sadimusi> but for some reason my token is still getting invalidated
14:15 < dividuum> maybe only one client token can every be used? so every time /authenticate is called, all other tokens/access tokens get invalidated?
14:16 <+sadimusi> no, at least that's not how it used to work
14:16 < dividuum> ok. strange
14:16 <+sadimusi> Dinnerbone: any idea why access tokens are getting invalidated when logging in with a new client token?
14:17 <+sadimusi> dividuum: I'll try loggin in with multiple instances of the vanilla client
14:18 < dividuum> ok. this is wierd. my launcher on my laptop works. my launcher on the desktop got invalidated. now i'm confused :)
14:19 < SinZ> iirc, can only run on one client token at a time
14:19 < SinZ> a new client token invalidates all existing stuff
14:19 < dividuum> sorry: had my girlfriends account on the laptop. that explains that :-}
14:19 < dividuum> SinZ, looks like it
14:20 <+sadimusi> indeed
14:20 <+sadimusi> but that was definitely not the case before and according to Dinnerbone's earlier statements isn't intended behaviour
14:20 <+sadimusi> time for another bug report
14:31 <+sadimusi> https://mojang.atlassian.net/browse/MCL-1513
14:33 < dividuum> sadimusi, thanks
14:36 < dividuum> btw, if you havn't seen it already: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_RbDDVhYJA (my ugly ugly hack for long view distances)
14:37 <+sadimusi> interesting
14:39 < dividuum> it's a voxel renderer that uses a generated low-res 3d texture
14:40 < dividuum> and using mcp, a tiny c lib (called by JNI) that includes a python interpreter i run shader code in. ugly as hell :-)
14:42 < Not-002> [mc4p] sadimusi pushed 4 commits to master [+0/-0/±4] http://git.io/bkjApA
14:42 < Not-002> [mc4p] Florian Wesch 120d283 - actually create a client token
14:42 < Not-002> [mc4p] Florian Wesch 52f4374 - added metadata field to 0x14
14:42 < Not-002> [mc4p] Florian Wesch 226e7e5 - added particle effect paket (0x3f)
14:42 < Not-002> [mc4p] Florian Wesch 56a579e - make old authentication service available (without using lastlogin)
14:43 < dividuum> hey, i didn't even make a pull request for the last one :-)
14:43 <+sadimusi> I know, but I liked it
14:44 < dividuum> looks like i'll use the old authentication server, until this yggdrasil thing is somehow changed
14:44 <+sadimusi> you might want to hard reset your repo, I had to edit your commits a bit
14:45 < dividuum> yeah. noticed that. will do
14:45 <+sadimusi> had to get rid of that merge commit somehow :D
14:46 <+sadimusi> and you violated pep8 a bit with your first commit
14:47 < dividuum> d'oh :}
14:47 <+sadimusi> most of the original code written by mmcgill violates pep8 pretty heavily, but I'm trying to at least keep the new and completely rewritten files clean :) 
14:48 < dividuum> i can confirm: i looks better now
14:55 <+sadimusi> dividuum: I've just looked over your website a bit, you might like https://github.com/sadimusi/jinja2compact/
14:56 < dx> sadimusi: nice!
14:56 < dividuum> interesting. bookmarked for the future
14:57 < dx> really simple too
16:01 < tehme> yo people
16:01 < tehme> can you do a good thing for me?
16:02 < tehme> i can't register on a server because of ip limit, can you do it?
17:41 <+clonejo> tehme: what server?
23:18 < Brandon15811> dx, http://aws.amazon.com/big-data/powerof60/
23:19 < Brandon15811> $100 in aws credit for ec2 and emr
23:22 < tehme> lol
23:23 < tehme> dat evil kvirc set some aphorism on my channel exit
23:23 < tehme> well, better than ads
--- Day changed sam. sept. 14 2013
02:45 < tehme> yo
02:45 < tehme> what packet is used to move item from inventory to hotbar?
02:57 <+clonejo> tehme: it's just a regular inventory move
02:58 <+clonejo> the hotbar is part of the inventory
02:59 < tehme> clonejo: i can't find packet
02:59 < tehme> 0x66?
03:01 <+clonejo> are you doing a client or a server?
13:43 < tehme> yo sup
13:43 < tehme> do bow enchants work on sword?
--- Day changed dim. sept. 15 2013
01:52 < Not-002> [Miners] Astelyn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±7] http://git.io/17bjog
01:52 < Not-002> [Miners] astelyn 442b558 - mc: Added ClassiCube support
09:33 < winny> so is oracle java really faster?
09:35 <+md_5> not in my experience
16:49 < tehme> yo
16:49 < tehme> i've just hacked some noob's account and stole sword with enchants of 1000 lvl
16:49 < tehme> how is it done?
16:50 < winny> lol
16:50 < winny> poor password?
16:50 < tehme> "tututu"
16:50 < tehme> same as region name:D
16:51 < winny> roflmao.
17:05 < tehme> so how is this shit done? is it admin magic or cheats?
17:13 < dx> "hacked some noob's account"
17:13 < dx> so classy
17:18 <+Prf_Jakob> tehme: this channel is not the forum for bragging about exploits and hacking, this is your final warning.
17:19 < tehme> Prf_Jakob: ok
19:11 < eddyb> he could've said "I found lvl 1000 enchants, how is this possible?"
19:13 < eddyb> tehme: not sure if /enchant worked with unobtainable enchants/levels before, /give sure works now, any kind of external editors, and there was a way to put any enchants on a book, when signing it (the server didn't check what NBT fields the client sent)
19:14 < tehme> eddyb: was a way?:)
19:14 < tehme> or is?
19:15 < eddyb> if nobody removed the books created back then, they would still be usable (not sure if that exploit was fixed before you could use anvils to apply enchanted books, but I think so)
21:19 < tehme> HELL YEAH i reworked my buffer for protocol
21:19 < tehme> and it does not crash
21:19 < jast> yay! :)
--- Day changed lun. sept. 16 2013
00:04 < tehme> time to try opengl
00:09 < tehme> omg
00:10 < tehme> sdl2 opengl header is 11k lines long and full of macros
00:10 < dexter0> have you never used OpenGL?
00:10 < tehme> nope
00:10 < dexter0> b/c yes, there are a lot of macros
00:10 < tehme> i didn't
00:12 < tehme> where should i get dev libs for windows?
00:16 < tehme> is glut ok?
00:16 < tehme> and are there any alternatives?
00:17 < dexter0> glut is a helper library for GL, all you need is something that will give you a GL context you can issue commands to.
00:17 < dexter0> No idea how it works under Windows.
00:21 < tehme> found it
00:22 < tehme> headers are built into vs
00:22 < tehme> and libs too
00:22 < tehme> mb i should update them...
00:26 < tehme> my exampledoesn't work:(
00:47 <+md_5> anyone here got JNI experience :c
00:54 <+sadimusi> burger's block topping is almost working again :)
00:54 <+sadimusi> only one block still isn't quite right
00:55 <+sadimusi> "2 files changed, 267 insertions(+), 88 deletions(-)" :/
01:00 < tehme> almost
01:01 <+sadimusi> well, then I still have to fix items, recipes and biomes
01:03 < tehme> will they add message size?:)
01:03 <+sadimusi> of course not
01:03 < tehme> this is so sad
01:04 < tehme> sadimusi: do you know about lvl 1000 enchantments?
01:04 <+sadimusi> iirc you can't go over 10 in vanilla minecraft
01:04 <+sadimusi> even with editors and stuff
01:05 < tehme> i don't know if that server is vanilla
01:05 < tehme> but i sto... got a sword with full lvl 1000 enchantments
01:05 < tehme> one shots diamond-armored player
01:06 <+sadimusi> can the client even display that?
01:06 < tehme> i want to be able to make swords like this one
01:06 < tehme> yep
01:06 < tehme> wait a minute
01:07 < tehme> http://i.imgur.com/TBIjz5r.png
01:07 < tehme> like this
01:08 <+sadimusi> so it can't really display it
01:08 < tehme> heh
01:09 <+sadimusi> anyway, I'm sure there are dozens of plugins out there to build those
01:09 < tehme> so this is admin's work
01:09 < Drainedsoul> writing token pasting macros, how bad should I feel about myself?
01:10 < tehme> Drainedsoul: wut?
01:10 < Drainedsoul> #define GET(x,y) x( get_ ## y ( x ## _key , x ## _default ))
01:10 <+sadimusi> tehme: obviously
01:10 < Drainedsoul> #define GET_INT(x) GET(x,int)
01:10 < tehme> wow
01:11 < tehme> now you are a sinner too:D
01:11 < Drainedsoul> there was really no other way to accomplish this that didn't involve all sorts of typing. :\
01:11 < tehme> do you want to see my code? you will feel better
01:12 < Drainedsoul> lol
01:12 < Drainedsoul> do you use macros instead of templates/inline functions or something
01:13 < tehme> nope
01:13 < tehme> i use generated code
01:13 < tehme> and until today i used flat vector as message buffer
01:13 < tehme> offsets everywhere
01:14 < Drainedsoul> I use a flat vector as a message buffer, but I use clever templating tricks so you don't see it
01:14 < tehme> but when i look at those tricks my eyes bleed
01:14 < tehme> right?:D
01:15 < Drainedsoul> they're not especially difficult to understand
01:15 < tehme> link?
01:16 < tehme> and whu not deque?
01:16 < tehme> why*
01:17 < tehme> https://github.com/meandmark/SDLOpenGLIntro/tree/sdl2
01:17 < tehme> what do you rhink about this code style>
01:17 < tehme> ?
01:17 < tehme> think*
01:17 < tehme> fuck
01:18 < Drainedsoul> https://github.com/RobertLeahy/MCPP/blob/master/include/packet.hpp#L84
01:19 < Drainedsoul> allman gtfo
01:20 < tehme> wut?
01:20 < Drainedsoul> the brace style
01:20 < Drainedsoul> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indent_style#Allman_style
01:21 < tehme> damnit, you are egyptian adept
01:21 < Drainedsoul> 1TBS 4eva
01:21 < tehme> why?
01:23 < Drainedsoul> I just can't stand Allman
01:24 < tehme> is there a reason?
01:24 < Drainedsoul> it consumes extra lines and doesn't directly associate braces with the statement they're associated with
01:25 < Drainedsoul> whenever I see a brace all by itself on a line in the middle of code I think that it's just a scope
01:25 <+pdelvo> and if they are behind a line you just dont see them at all
01:26 < Drainedsoul> but I see that the preceding lines are indented, so who cares?
01:26 < tehme> this is a subject of holy war:)
01:27 < tehme> and i don't like egyptian style because it is... odd or something
01:27 < Drainedsoul> wtf is egyption style
01:27 < tehme> your "1TBS"
01:28 < tehme> lol, i love tutorials
01:29 < tehme> i've seen one by person infected by brain java
01:29 < tehme> he made class Window and stored only static methods there
01:29 < tehme> in c++
01:29 < tehme> or is it ok?
01:29 < Drainedsoul> well, it's "okay" insofar that it doesn't cause any "problems"
01:30 < Drainedsoul> but you can't do like
01:30 < Drainedsoul> using namespace class_name;
01:30 < tehme> that's an argument:)
01:31 < Drainedsoul> what is?
01:31 <+pdelvo> its always good to structure code
01:31 < Drainedsoul> what's your point?
01:31 < Drainedsoul> you can just put the functions in a namespace instead of a class
01:31 < Drainedsoul> in order to make a static only class in C++, not only do you have to declare the class, but you also have to delete its default constructor so you can't instantiate it
01:32 < Drainedsoul> and then people can't just include that namespace to use the functions unqualified
01:32 <+pdelvo> if there is a window.open() method and your reading a code calling it, you know it open the wondow. if you using namespaces and just call open() you have to goess what it does. does it open the window() does it open the door? the closet? 
01:32 < Drainedsoul> how will you have to guess?  If the window "class" has only static methods, there's no difference between it being a class or a namespace
01:33 < Drainedsoul> unless you decide to put using namespace window; in your function, in which case YOU have chose to use the function unqualified
01:34 <+pdelvo> but I might not be the only one looking at it and you are making it harder to read
01:34 < Drainedsoul> who's "you"
01:34 < Drainedsoul> the writer of the function, or the writer of the library
01:35 < tehme> can you advice any good sdl tutorial with nice ther=ory and not just esample copy-paste?
01:35 < Drainedsoul> the write of the library did nothing except use a namespace properly, the writer of the function chose to write using namespace window; instead of qualifying every call to the functions therein
01:35 < tehme> opengl tutorial*
01:36 <+pdelvo> the writer usually knows what the function does (at least when he writes it). but if someone else have to work with the code it takes more time to get into it
01:36 < Drainedsoul> I'm not arguing that.  I'm saying that has nothing to do with the decision to use a namespace or a class.
01:36 < Drainedsoul> The decision of whether the function is used qualified or not is made when it is used, whether it is preceded with using namespace window; or not.  The writer of the library just puts it in a namespace.
01:45 <+pdelvo> Im talking about someone else has to make changes to the library. if you read something like this: function foo(...){... unlock(...); open(...); close(...); lock(...)} you first have to research what it does and where the functions belong to. but if you have door.unlock(); door.open(); door.close(); door.lock() you know what you are working with without searching for the source. and if you are using namespaces I think you do because you want to not u
01:45 <+pdelvo> se foo() instead of door.foo()
01:45 < Drainedsoul> if you're within namespace door, it's pretty obvious what you mean by unlock etc.
01:49 < tehme> yay i,ve rendered a purple rectangle!
01:50 < tehme> those opengl colors are weird
01:50 < tehme> why no 0..255?
01:50 <+pdelvo> what is opengl using? 0-1?
01:51 < tehme> yes
01:51 < dexter0> because normalized is better
01:51 <+AndrewPH> just do x/255 to use 0-255 if it bothers you
01:51 < dexter0> far more fidelity
01:51 <+pdelvo> more accurate
01:51 < tehme> sure
01:51 < tehme> more accurate
02:02 < tehme> loli like opengl
05:33 < Drainedsoul> http://i.imgur.com/DOSSm4C.jpg I'd honestly rather have this in vanilla than clay biomes
19:24 < tehme> dav1d: are you here?
20:19 < Drainedsoul> what is a "packed byte" (referenced in the documentation for 0x14)?  Is it the same as the pitch/yaw fields in packets like 0x17?
20:20 < tehme> how to avoid rendering blocks that are invisible from current point of view?
20:20 < tehme> if i am rendering a chunk
20:20 <+sadimusi> Drainedsoul: I think so
20:21 < dexter0> tehme: http://www.sea-of-memes.com/
20:26 < Drainedsoul> While people are answering questions, could someone clarify how Minecraft's day/night cycle works.  0 ticks is what time?
20:34 < tehme> midnight?
20:34 < Drainedsoul> yeah I thought that as well, but apparently that's incorrect
20:35 <+Fador> well the game starts at dawn? ;)
20:35 < Drainedsoul> yeah what time is that?  8AM?  6AM?
20:37 <+pdelvo> I think its 6am
20:37 <+pdelvo> and then 1000 ticks = 1 hour
20:38 < Drainedsoul> yeah I knew about 1000 ticks = 1 hour
20:40 < Drainedsoul> so 0 = 6AM (beginning of daytime), 12000 = 6PM (dusk), and then nighttime is when, 13800-22200?
22:14 < dav1d> tehme: yes
22:15 < tehme> iirc, your clien can draw
22:15 < dav1d> yes
22:15 < tehme> do you use opengl?
22:15 < dav1d> yes
22:16 < tehme> how do you render blocks invisible from point of view?
22:16 < tehme> how to check if block is needed to be rendered?
22:16 < dav1d> they aren't rendered, chunkwise
22:16 < dav1d> if they are not in the viewing-frustum (the chunks), they are skipped
22:17 < dav1d> and only the faces are drawn which are adjacent to a non-solid block (including air)
22:17 < tehme> wow
22:17 < tehme> nice
22:18 < dav1d> https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/brala/dine/world.d#L367 https://github.com/Dav1dde/BraLa/blob/master/brala/dine/builder/tessellator.d#L50
22:18 < dav1d> the important bits
22:18 < dav1d> getting this code to work, was quite some work
22:18 < dav1d> (work correctly and it beeing fast)
22:18 < dav1d> it can process a chunk in ~2-3ms
22:19 < dav1d> (jungle)
22:41 <+pdelvo> the new youtube player is just stupid. now you have to do more clicks to do the same thing. But hey! the black bar now has more useless space!
22:56 <+clonejo> pdelvo: http://barisderin.com/?p=1113
22:59 <+pdelvo> with my connection im happy if i can play a video at 480p :(
23:01 <+sadimusi> the player changed? not for me :) http://d.pr/i/u1bx
23:05 < tehme> i hate flash
23:05 < tehme> it always fails
23:05 < tehme> and always freezes
23:06 < tehme> i hate adobe
23:09 < tehme> what is get_block_safe? does it handle out of array ok?
23:27 <+clonejo> pdelvo: oh the great joy when we got cable dsl ...
23:28 <+clonejo> our connection got 100 times as fast as before
23:29 <+pdelvo> its not possible here :( I got dsl 6000 which most of the time does not really work
23:30 <+clonejo> one sad thing is you get used to the speed very fast
23:30 <+clonejo> lately I had to live with 5kB/s for one month. it was murderous
23:56 < tehme> http://i.imgur.com/SZLkj1n.png
23:56 < tehme> fock yeah!
23:56 < tehme> thank you dav1d:
23:56 < dav1d> tehme: it returns AIR_BLOCK if it fails
23:56 < dav1d> :)
23:57 < tehme> it is now 25% of cpu, not 50+
23:57 < tehme> do you render it per chunk or per column?
23:58 < tehme> clonejo: where is this torture?:D
23:59 < dav1d> tehme: one draw call per chunk
23:59 < tehme> so chunks not in vision gtfo without your help
--- Day changed mar. sept. 17 2013
00:00 < dav1d> frustum culling
00:00 < dav1d> all you need to look up
00:00 < tehme> manual frustum culling?
00:01 < tehme> opengl can do it iirc
00:01 < dav1d> yeah, I guess it's manual
00:01 < dav1d> no
00:01 < dav1d> you mean backface culling
00:02 <+clonejo> tehme: I only had edge, and most of the time it was overcrowded
00:04 < tehme> damn
00:04 < tehme> opengl is easy and hard
00:05 < tehme> i need a big and nice sdl2 opengl tutorial
00:05 < dexter0> OpenGL does not do frustum culling.  Every vertex you submit to the GL must be processed.
00:05 < dexter0> There is ARB_occlusion_query
00:06 < dav1d> tehme: http://www.arcsynthesis.org/gltut/
00:07 < tehme> dav1d: that's not exactly what i need
00:07 < tehme> or...
00:07 < dav1d> I really recommend it
00:08 < dav1d> it's good
04:31 <+md_5> http://prntscr.com/1rrkkw
04:31 <+md_5> SEEMS LEGIT
05:11 < Not-002> [mineflayer] superjoe30 pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/YmV-cw
05:11 < Not-002> [mineflayer] innoying 3abd88f - Updated invalid link name in README
05:11 < Not-002> [mineflayer] superjoe30 64d2475 - Merge pull request #162 from innoying/patch-1 Updated invalid link name in README
06:27 < benbaptist> Does anyone have any idea why my client seems to send "MC|PingHos" instead of MC|PingHost? Or am I just not parsing a packet right? I seem to receive every other string just fine, but I struggle with this particular one.
--- Log closed mar. sept. 17 08:24:57 2013
--- Log opened mar. sept. 17 08:25:05 2013
08:25 -!- Irssi: #mcdevs: Total of 2 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 1 normal]
08:27 -!- Irssi: Join to #mcdevs was synced in 178 secs
08:53 !cameron.freenode.net *** Notice -- TS for #mcdevs changed from 1379398845 to 1291634560
08:53 -!- cameron.freenode.net changed the topic of #mcdevs to: A haunt for developers working on projects related to Minecraft | Website & Rules: http://mcdevs.org | Wiki: http://wiki.vg | Channel is publicly logged as of Feb.25/13
12:34 < tehme> benbaptist: are you making client or server?
18:14 < dividuum> has the login.minecraft.net based authentication been disabled? minecraft servers refuse to let me login
18:20 < tehme> yo
18:20 < tehme> is it possible to use minecraft with tor?
18:22 < dx> tehme: what are you trying to do?
18:37 < iBotPeaches> dx: nothing good would be my guess
18:37 < dx> which is why i'm asking!
18:38 < dx> i can't think any good reason to want to do that
18:48 < tehme> dx: one server's admin made 1 account per ip
18:48 < tehme> i want to play with my sister
18:48 < dx> tell the admin to add an exception for you
18:48 < tehme> he is a phucking schoolboy
18:48 < dx> play somewhere else
18:48 < tehme> this is unreal
18:48 < tehme> man
18:48 < tehme> is it possible?
18:49 < dx> sure, but i'm not telling you :3
18:49 < tehme> you are evil
18:49 < dx> you don't have a good enough reason
18:50 < tehme> just because i spoke of cheating earlier?
18:50 < dx> it's tor, dude
18:50 < tehme> so?
18:50 < dx> it's a big fucking WHY
18:50 < tehme> wut
18:51 < dx> let me put it in a different way
18:51 < dx> latency.
18:51 < tehme> i know
18:51 < tehme> i just need to make a single command
18:51 < iBotPeaches> let me also put it in a different way
18:51 < iBotPeaches> LAG
18:52 < dx> iBotPeaches: same thing lol
18:52 < tehme> and then i may go back to my ip
18:52 < iBotPeaches> :p
18:52 < dx> tehme: oh, so it's a xauth server or equivalent?
18:52 < tehme> may be
18:53 < tehme> registration with command
18:54 < dx> if it's xauth tell the admin to do "xauth register <player> <password>"
18:54 < tehme> dx: read my previous messages
18:54 < tehme> contact with admin is impossible
18:54 < dx> if it's authme, "authme register <player> <password>"
18:54 < dx> er
18:55 < dx> why impossible
18:55 < dx> i just assumed the admin was dumb
18:55 < tehme> because he is a fucking schoolboy 
18:55 < tehme> and he doesn't give a fuck
18:55 < dx> does he not speak english
18:55 < dx> this is so legit
18:55 < tehme> yep, this is the life
18:56 < dx> i'm trying really hard to assume good faith
18:56 < dx> do you have any reasons not to play in a different server?
18:56 < tehme> i want that server
18:56 < dx> what does it have in particular
18:57 < tehme> i just like it
18:57 < dx> SO MASSIVELY LEGIT
18:57 < tehme> well... fire is enabled there
18:58 < iBotPeaches> so you were about to grief the hell out of them for not allowing 2 people per ip?
18:58 < iBotPeaches> because thats all I got from that
18:58 < tehme> nope
18:58 < tehme> just because i can
18:58 < dx> tehme: what's your minecraft username?
18:59 < tehme> i don't have it
18:59 < iBotPeaches> wat
18:59 < dx> okay at least you're honest
18:59 < tehme> pirate and proud
18:59 < dx> okay you're dumb
18:59 < tehme> lol no
18:59 < iBotPeaches> TkTech
19:00 < iBotPeaches> just added some projects to notifico, sexy project man
19:00 < dx> i want my goddamn notifico channel logs
19:03 < dx> i should just get two or three irc bots hosted in different services, and make them join every channel i lurk, and log them
19:03 < dx> that way i won't have any holes in my logs anymore, even if one of the hosts go down
19:04 < dx> (i could also get a single, reliable hosting service, but that's boring)
19:04 < iBotPeaches> melded logs eh between services
19:04 < iBotPeaches> I wonder how that would work
19:04 < Morrolan> As long as they use the same format, it should be pretty straightforward. :)
19:04 < iBotPeaches> if 2 out of 3 went down, but 3 was down prior to 2, then it waited till 3 came up
19:04 < Morrolan> Oh, now here come the edge cases. :P
19:05 < dx> if two bots go down, spawn a digitalocean droplet :D
19:06 < dx> they have a really really sweet json api
19:06 < iBotPeaches> so does linode :)
19:10 < dx> netsplit handling would be fun too
19:10 < dx> since some networks like to hide as much server information as possible
19:11 < dx> it appears as "*.net *.split" and you have no way to know which side of the network you are, not even by checking the IP you connected to
19:28 <+sadimusi> tehme: Prf_Jakob warned you
19:29 -!- tehme was kicked from #mcdevs by sadimusi [Your behavior is not conducive to the desired environment.]
19:29 <+AndrewPH> finally gosh
19:30 < dx> thanks
19:32 < dx> i didn't really mind the pirating part, hoping that he would have the intention to buy an account some day, but he went full derp after that.
19:33 < iBotPeaches> yep the "proud" part was the last straw
19:33 <+sadimusi> for me the "just because i can" would have been enough
19:34 < iBotPeaches> oooo he was saying "just because I can" related to the fire :/
19:34 < iBotPeaches> i never picked up on that :p
19:35 < dx> oooh
19:35 < dx> me neither
19:35 < dx> he's really dumb.
19:37 < dx> why would anyone even consider talking about that stuff in a development channel
19:45 < TkTech> sadimusi: Good call.
19:45 < TkTech> dx: Netsplits are the devils minions.
19:46 < dx> :D
19:46 <+AndrewPH> netsplits are literally hitler, you could say
19:46 < dx> i agree with AndrewPH
19:47 < TkTech> Handling netsplits in Notifico is interesting. Eventually, if after a netsplit it thinks the state is still messed up, it gives up and just disconnects.
19:47 < TkTech> Tracking state in IRC is very painful for a bot.
19:47 < dx> you could just send /names
19:48 < dx> or /who
19:48 < TkTech> And record the results for hundreds of channels?
19:49 < dx> not necessarily record, but sync your local state with it, which you don't need to do instantly
19:49 < dx> you have to get a nick list on join anyway, this is the same but without rejoining
19:50 < TkTech> But I can't do /names on demand.
19:50 < TkTech> Rate limiting is a thing.
19:50 < TkTech> It's easier to disconnect and let it rejoin channels as they're used.
19:50 < TkTech> (Which also simplifies the logic)
19:51 < TkTech> I used to think Freenode's limits were archaic. Boy was I wrong.
19:51 < TkTech> At least it uses a relatively modern IRCd.
19:53 < dx> how about, instead of disconnecting, set a "/names pending" flag, and do /names when it would normally rejoin?
19:53 < dx> actually, what do you use that state for?
19:54 < TkTech> Tracking channel ops to eventually protect against timing attacks during netsplits, channel logging, log hyperlinking (is X on network Y likely also X on network Z?)
19:54 < TkTech> Eventually more things, probably.
19:57 < eddyb> Freenode has its own IRCd fork, last I checked
19:57 < dx> well, the logging part is pretty useless if your bots often gives up from staying in the channel
19:57 < dx> s/often gives/sometimes give/
19:58 < TkTech> It only gives up after trying for awhile.
23:03 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 41 commits to master [+42/-68/±81] http://git.io/IUd1jw
23:03 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 28120e9 - Fixed a bug in entity movement
23:03 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath dafabca - Fixed entity spawning
23:03 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath f0a8588 - Removed commented out code
23:03 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath e50036d - Start of tidy up
23:03 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 7a4184c - Clean up & Protocol handling work
23:03 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 2e1bd4a - New fast packet writer
23:03 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 8b989da - Added missing slice types
23:03 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath ffb6611 - Add missing packets
23:03 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 4afe343 - Removed broken json handling from logging package
23:03 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 7275c86 - protocol: Now uses io.ReadFull to prevent missing bytes in packets
23:03 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath dac8bcb - protocol/auth: Created. This checks the user against the Mojang login servers
23:03 <+sadimusi> really?
23:03 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 15d4cf1 - protocol: Implemented the login sequence with protocol encryption
23:03 < Thinkofdeath> Sorry
23:03 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath c1cd8c0 - /: Updated to use the new protocol package
23:03 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath d60e9c8 - protocol: Added reference to http://wiki.vg/Protocol_Encryption
23:04 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath d4e1e95 - /: Made the server's authenticator changeable
23:04 <+AndrewPH> at least you apologized
23:04 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath eba0568 - protocol: Formatting fixes
23:04 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 3076e29 - /: Removed unused method
23:04 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath d3842d4 - entity/player: Created. This handles the player after the login is complete
23:04 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 8ca4540 - format/nbt: Brought in old nbt parser
23:04 < Thinkofdeath> Forgot to push for a while 
23:04 <+AndrewPH> unlike a certain cmpwn
23:04 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 442115d - protocol: Remove old bug comment
23:04 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 1b44c05 - format/nbt: Add a simple benchmark
23:04 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath da35da6 - all: Switch license from GPLv3 to Apache v2
23:04 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath b7dbbcc - format/msgpack: Created
23:04 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 69fff0c - format/msgpack: Added some documentation and fixed handling of incorrect types
23:04 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath b605039 - format/msgpack: Added missing header
23:04 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 6480fc4 - format/msgpack: Removed old log statement
23:04 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 64886c9 - format/msgpack: Minor speed up of array handling
23:04 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 17b2005 - format/msgpack: Fixed msgpack double reading in skip
23:04 <+sadimusi> it's not really your fault, notifico should never do this
23:04 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 5002b87 - format/nbt: Changed to use the same system as format/msgpack. map[string]interface{} are currently broken.
23:04 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 47f0cd6 - log: removed
23:04 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath a63d124 - format/msgpack: Allow fields to be ignored
23:04 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 74a51dc - world: Started work on world loading
23:04 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath c6e10b5 - format/msgpack: Fixed having ignored fields giving an incorrect map size
23:04 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 3de8010 - entity/player: Change the way a closed player is signaled
23:04 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath b965a9e - world: Make world.System's Write/Read methods available from world.World
23:04 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 9040363 - format/all: Added support for embedded fields
23:04 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath c60476b - world,entity/player: Get chunk loading working and start on generators
23:04 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath c58cf03 - world/flat: Make it work
23:04 <+sadimusi> TkTech
23:04 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath f12bb57 - entity/player: Minor change to player starting height
23:04 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath f563e17 - world: byteChunk now unloads empty sections
23:04 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 5b9be55 - protocol: Fix a nil pointer on reading non-existent packet
23:04 < Thinkofdeath> Well if it make you feel any better its pinging me each time
23:05 <+sadimusi> :D
23:05 <+AndrewPH> a fate truly worse than death
23:05 < Thinkofdeath> :)
23:25 < iBotPeaches> notifico you noob, if (commits > 5) link
23:26 < iBotPeaches> joking aside, ive never seen my irc so colorful
23:27 <+AndrewPH> it's like a rainbow of color
23:41 < benbaptist> If you're still here, tehme, I'm making a server.
23:43 <+AndrewPH> benbaptist: he isn't on the userlist and was removed quite a bit ago
--- Day changed mer. sept. 18 2013
11:05 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2205 2 files : Updated water rendering in IsoCat, to make edges less jagged (thanks Hearty0 for the idea).
11:05 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2206 2 files : Fixed a typo in the license file
11:55 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/AcCyPw
11:55 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 0e3fbcc - entity/player: Added keep-alive to prevent disconnecting
11:55 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 8447dd4 - protocol: Fixed conditions in sub-structs
15:00 < iBotPeaches> http://i.imgur.com/k3vPT9y.png can someone confirm if notifico always looks like that to them? or did my new smuxi update go haywire?
15:02 <+Prf_Jakob> iBotPeaches: it looks okay to me
15:03 <+Prf_Jakob> iBotPeaches: http://i.imgur.com/P7xb4IW.png
16:12 < TkTech> iBotPeaches: Your client isn't parsing colour codes correctly.
--- Day changed jeu. sept. 19 2013
00:20 < iBotPeaches> TkTech: I've reported a bug to my client, thanks
01:19 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 4 commits to master [+0/-0/±8] http://git.io/HAnK2g
01:19 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath ba9e658 - entity/player: Timeout the player if the ping response isn't received by the next one
01:19 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath c19c1be - format/msgpack: Added support for Arrays
01:19 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 5457eff - format/all: Fixed ignore tags on embedded values format/nbt: Uncommented error recovery code
01:19 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 2b47457 - format/msgpack: Fix reading/writing of pointer values and add tests for them
10:12 <+sadimusi> Dinnerbone: did you notice https://mojang.atlassian.net/browse/MCL-1513 ? Looks like you no longer can log in with access tokens if you use more than one computer
17:33 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 4 commits to master [+0/-0/±10] http://git.io/p1O5KA
17:33 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath b8ecc9e - world: Added basic world saving
17:33 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 6ee6161 - entity/player: Handle disconnects
17:33 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath b2d9b95 - world: Limit the rate that chunks can be send/saved. Doing to many in parallel was causing the memory usage to increase by large amounts. Old memory usage 150-300MB, now 35MB
17:33 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 66e35a3 - protocol: Update to 1.6.3
19:03 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±5] http://git.io/2sZIfA
19:03 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath b72779d - protocol: Update to snapshot 13w37b. (Which requires a decreasing the protocol version)
19:03 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 5dddc79 - protocol: Update to 13w38a
21:29 < Thinkofdeath> I documented the json chat changes/additions and it came out a bit messy, any ideas on how to improve it? http://wiki.vg/Pre-release_protocol#0x03
21:33 < iBotPeaches> Thinkofdeath: is our old method removed using § in json?
21:33 < Thinkofdeath> Not yet
21:34 < iBotPeaches> whew, can hold off the rewrite
21:34 < Thinkofdeath> Its still planned
21:34 < iBotPeaches> better start slowly on it now
21:42 < mbaxter> Murdering the section sign entirely would break colored signs, server motd, nametags... :(
21:43 < Thinkofdeath> mbaxter: I'm guessing thats why its still here until it gets a replacement
--- Day changed ven. sept. 20 2013
00:28 < Drainedsoul> I really wish they'd kill the section symbol
06:52 < Not-002> [bravo] MostAwesomeDude pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-0/±0] http://git.io/24CZWA
06:52 < Not-002> [bravo] Corbin Simpson 61fe0fc - Enable Travis.
07:38 < Not-002> [bravo] MostAwesomeDude pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/ytAOqQ
07:38 < Not-002> [bravo] Corbin Simpson 4be250f - tests: Unbreak Python 2.7 testing. A test is broken but nobody cares.
09:23 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2207 2 files : Committed missing DrawCommands.cs
09:35 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2208 2 files : Embedded a UAC manifest in UpdateInstaller, to avoid UAC prompts under Vista.
10:14 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2209 2 files : Embedded a UAC manifest in UpdateInstaller, to avoid UAC prompts under Vista (backport from 0.90x)
10:21 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2210 2 files : Fixed an occasional ArgumentNullException in IRC thread. (backport from 0.90x)
10:28 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2211 2 files : Fixed IRC-related crashes not being submitted to the crash reporter. (backport from 0.90x)
10:34 < Not-002> [fCraft] fragmer * r2212 11 files : Updated assembly versions to 0.643
14:47 < iBotPeaches> TkTech: my client patched the color bug in 1 day: http://i.imgur.com/qackrwK.png :)
14:48 < iBotPeaches> now bot messages looks normal :p https://github.com/meebey/smuxi/commit/aa2a17caaa172ea10db65834e4b5b82b91d97084
17:07 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±5] http://git.io/uDiCzA
17:07 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 3ae27d2 - entity/player: Send MC|Brand plugin message
17:07 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath f588c37 - protocol/auth: Switch over to sessionserver.mojang.com from session.minecraft.net. The new server returns the user's UUID to support name changing in the future.
18:10 < Not-002> [bravo] MostAwesomeDude pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/aYZ_2A
18:10 < Not-002> [bravo] Corbin Simpson b10c21d - tests: Don't use skipIf. We still support Python 2.6.
--- Day changed sam. sept. 21 2013
00:46 < dx> dav1d: you won https://help.mojang.com/customer/portal/articles/1307761-opengl-2-1-support
00:46 < dav1d> what did I win?
00:46 < dav1d> wooooo
00:47 < dx> :D
00:48 < dav1d> well with 2.1 you can work
00:48 < dexter0> .. and Apple computers..
00:48 < dav1d> yeah because APPLE
00:48 < dexter0> that's silly to call out mac there
00:48 < dav1d> no it's not
00:48 < dexter0> they dropped PPC support a while back
00:49 < dx> is it all apple computers, or *older* apple computers?
00:49 < dexter0> any Mac that can still run Minecraft can run OGL 2.1
00:49 < dav1d> you can't update the apple drivers
00:49 < dav1d> so if you have an old mac, without 2.1 (does that exist)
00:49 < dexter0> right, they come with each now OS upgrade
00:49 < dav1d> then you're fucked
00:49 < dav1d> yeah, which you have to pay?
00:49 < dx> lol
00:49 < dexter0> but every Mac OS that can run MC right now can run OGL 2.1
00:50 < dx> i think it's really just a issue of parsing the sentence
00:50 < dx> older (laptops || apple computers)
00:50 < dx> there.
00:50 < dav1d> dunno about that, but I guess a mac veersion before 2006 can't run it
00:50 < dexter0> because that's when the first Intel macs shipped :P
00:50 < dexter0> and some PPC macs could run OGL 2.1
00:51 < dexter0> but that does not matter because PPC Mac can't get the required Java
00:52 < dexter0> I suppose the sentence is 'technically' try in that if you can't upgrade your Mac OS, you can't upgraded your OGL drivers...
00:52 < dexter0> true*
00:52 < dexter0> but that's irrelevant here
00:52 < dx> doesn't opengl support rely on hardware mostly?
00:53 < dx> unless you have something like mesa emulating newer features
00:53 < dexter0> hardware support & drivers
00:53 < dexter0> Apple *was* a really bad example of that until recently
00:53 < dx> so there you have, they said "older apple computers"! :D
00:54 < dexter0> that being: shipping hardware that supported modern GL but providing crappy drivers that only supported 2.1
00:55 < dav1d> dexter0: it will happen again
00:55 < dav1d> ogl 5, apple wont support it for a year (my prediction)
00:55 < dexter0> they are catching up quickly
00:55 < dx> >RT @Marc_IRL: Guys, please actually read the article. I wrote it to directly answer most of the questions I'm now getting.
00:55 < dx> loling
00:55 < dexter0> 10.9 has 4.1 support on compatible hardware
00:56 < dav1d> and when was 4.1 released? ;)
00:56 < dexter0> well, two years ago Apple only supported 3.2.
00:56 < dav1d> yeah right
00:56 < dav1d> 26. Juli 2010
00:56 < dav1d> (according to wikipedia)
00:56 < dav1d> that's 3 years for me
00:58 < dav1d> anyways bed time
11:11 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 3 commits to master [+1/-0/±7] http://git.io/0Pd9yQ
11:11 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 04a13c7 - entity/player: Removed the unhandled packet message
11:11 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath e8ab30e - message: Created to handle Minecraft chat messages
11:11 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 67aed52 - world: Changed Chunk to a struct and fixed a world saving bug
20:06 < coolcat6> Anyone know why a vanilla cilent would send dig packets when holding down left click but wouldnt send them with just a single left click?
--- Day changed dim. sept. 22 2013
00:02 < nyuszika7h> what hash algorithm is used to generate the auth token? SHA-256 is one character less (64) than the token length (65)
00:35 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 12 commits to master [+8/-4/±165] http://git.io/dPjKfA
00:35 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] tuomas56 a9a1140 - standard terrain generation and experimental trees trees are very buggy and stone caves or ore generation is not yet implemented
00:35 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] tuomas56 af4f026 - fixed trees, added biomes, removed unused methods Fixed random leaf spawning by preventing trees from spawning on the edge of the chunk which was causing them to warp the leaves to the other side of the chunk. added biomes based on height (below 10 above water level = beach / 5 above beach = extreme hills edge / above that = extreme hills) removed unused methods in noise.cs
00:35 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] tuomas56 5289639 - Delete MidpointDisplacement.cs
00:35 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] tuomas56 26dc4bd - Delete Noise2d.cs
00:35 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] tuomas56 48af332 - Delete PerlinNoise2D.cs
00:35 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] tuomas56 af8c6a4 - Delete Vector2.cs
00:35 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] tuomas56 4465462 - Update Craft.Net.Common.csproj remove unused reference to xna
00:35 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] tuomas56 c403ad0 - Update Noise.cs removed unused 'using microsoft.xna.framework' statement
00:35 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] tuomas56 4d36ab1 - Update Craft.Net.Common.csproj
00:35 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] tuomas56 033cefe - Update Craft.Net.Server.csproj
00:35 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 978350f - Merge remote-tracking branch 'tuomas56/master'
00:35 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 8e52371 - Tweak terrain generation and reformat code
00:37 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 2 commits to master [+1/-2/±7] http://git.io/BEnWug
00:37 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 59285d2 - all: Steps towards infinite worlds
00:37 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 826c0f7 - world: Reused byte.Buffers and zlib.Writers
01:03 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±3] http://git.io/VS8tAw
01:03 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 34de326 - Initial 1.4.6 support, prevent server from crashing on client-side network errors
01:17 < dx> lol 1.4.6
01:17 < dx> (typo for 1.6.4)
01:33 < Not-002> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±7] http://git.io/PxgFtg
01:33 < Not-002> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn 474a731 - Update SMProxy to 1.6.4
01:39 < iBotPeaches> he got it right that time
03:05 < tehme> wow
03:06 < tehme> yo i'm back
03:06 < tehme> and i'm good now dont ban me again:D
04:32 < dx> lol
04:33 < dx> tehme: i'm pretty sure this counts as ban evasion, that's even more bannable in most channels. i suggest you leave before you get banned again.
04:51 < SinZ> ban evading is a network offence
04:52 < kaendfinger> I need help
04:53 < kaendfinger> I develop/co-own the Server "Minetweak"
04:53 < kaendfinger> http://minetweak.org/
04:53 < kaendfinger> And I would like to make a Wiki Account, but I keep getting "Incorrect or missing confirmation code.
04:53 < kaendfinger> "
04:54 < dexter0> someone just needs to confirm you I think
04:54 < kaendfinger> Umm, ok.... I mean on
04:54 < kaendfinger> http://wiki.vg/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin&type=signup&returnto=Main+Page
04:54 < dexter0> I don't know how to do it though, maybe dx can.
04:55 < kaendfinger> Ok
04:55 < kaendfinger> Also, I updated the Node-Minecraft-Protocol Library to 1.6.4
04:55 < kaendfinger> https://github.com/kaendfinger/node-minecraft-protocol
04:55 < dx> dexter0: i think the usual confirmation method was changed
04:56 < dx> kaendfinger: neat
04:56 < kaendfinger> Took like two seconds
04:56 < kaendfinger> Today I was working on updating Minetweak to protocol v78
04:56 < kaendfinger> So I knew all the codes :P
04:56 < kaendfinger> https://github.com/Minetweak/Minetweak
04:56 < kaendfinger> ^^ That btw is the faster Java Minecraft Server EVER
04:57 < kaendfinger> I swear to god
04:57 < kaendfinger> Also, if anyone would like to learn more, you can join #Minetweak on EsperNet
04:57 < dexter0> is it a modded vanilla server or was it written from scratch?
04:58 < kaendfinger> dexter0, Its original code is based off of MCP's Decompiled Server, but, it is now practically from Scratch
04:58 < kaendfinger> I literally took all of it, got rid of the shit Mojang code
04:59 < kaendfinger> And made the thing fast as hell
04:59 < dx> "practically"
04:59 < kaendfinger> I took the code from Mojang, and turned it into a fast beast
04:59 < kaendfinger> Thats what I meant :P
04:59 < SinZ> That isn't from scratch then
04:59 < kaendfinger> Yeah I know
05:00 < kaendfinger> The Goal of the Project is to make a universal Plugins System for Bukkit and Forge
05:00 < kaendfinger> So Minetweak Plugins will work on Bukkit and Forge
05:01 < dx> dexter0: yeah it seems the wiki uses some sort of captcha now: http://wiki.vg/Special:Captcha/help
05:01 < dx> dexter0: (and i'm not an admin)
05:01  * niel pokes kaendfinger 
05:01 < kaendfinger> niel, Hi
05:02 < niel> o./
05:02 < dexter0> dk: huh
05:02 < kaendfinger> Dinnerbone, Hehehe
05:02 < dexter0> dx*
05:02 < kaendfinger> Some of the people here I recognize from EsperNet
05:02 < dx> TkTech sadimusi: we've got kaendfinger having issues with the captcha in the wiki and no idea how to activate his account
05:02 < kaendfinger> LoganG|off is the Owner and Creator of Minetweak btw
05:03 < niel> and Im the one that does nothing
05:03 < dx> kaendfinger: don't ping mojang people
05:03  * niel hides
05:03 < SinZ> kaendfinger: protip, don't ping the big names, they bite
05:03 < kaendfinger> dx, Sorry
05:03 < kaendfinger> SinZ, Heard that Before :)
05:03 < niel> Ive never been biten
05:03 < kaendfinger> I think it was #minecraft
05:03 < kaendfinger> niel, Wanna be?
05:03 < niel> :D
05:04 < kaendfinger> Also, I might be better known as the guy who saved Minecraft Forge
05:04 < niel> what did you do to forge >.>
05:05 < kaendfinger> niel, Remember when all the mirrors and the CI Were down, so I downloaded 10GB of Data and hosted a mirror?
05:06 < kaendfinger> Anyways, about the Wiki, I was going to change the version of Mineflayer's thing to 1.6.4
05:06 < kaendfinger> Anyone who can do that for me?
05:06 < kaendfinger> deathcrazyuberli, hello Sam
05:07 < deathcrazyuberli> wut do you want kaendfinger c_c
05:07 < kaendfinger> I wanna say Hi :)
05:07 < samrg472> hmmk
05:07 < niel> kaendfinger had to many coffees tonight
05:07 < kaendfinger> No but you know the MC Protocol Wiki thingy?
05:07 < kaendfinger> Yeah this is the channel
05:08 < samrg472> the topic couldn't be any more obvious =P
05:08 < kaendfinger> xD
05:08 < SinZ> topic and channel name
05:08 < kaendfinger> True
05:09 < kaendfinger> So, on the Wiki, can I add Minetweak to the Servers?
05:09 < niel> mabye you should make it support forge first :P
05:09 < kaendfinger> Or does it have to be scratch servers, cause we are writing a Scratch C# One too
05:09 < kaendfinger> TweakSharp
05:10 < umby24> wat
05:10 < umby24> my account on wiki be deleted or something.
05:10 < SinZ> wiki moved
05:11 < umby24> explains it i guess .-. my edits are still shown though
05:11 < umby24> meh
05:11 < SinZ> history could be moved, accounts couldn't
05:12 < kaendfinger> Why not xD
05:12 < kaendfinger> Also, Minetweak is NOT a Server "Wrapper"
05:12 < kaendfinger> http://wiki.vg/Wrapper_List
05:12 < kaendfinger> For many reasons actually
05:13 < SinZ> it has vannila MC in its core, making it a wrapper, when you compare it to other servers
05:13 < kaendfinger> I see why it might be called one, but there is a big difference
05:13 < kaendfinger> With Bukkit, they dont patch MC
05:13 < kaendfinger> They do "wrapping"
05:14 < kaendfinger> Meaning, only hooks
05:14 < kaendfinger> With us, we modify MC Code, and then have an API over it
05:16 < kaendfinger> http://wiki.minetweak.org/Making_A_Plugin
05:16 < kaendfinger> See, there is an example of a Plugin
05:18 < umby24> Mineflayer to 1.6.4 you said?
05:19 < dx> so you optimize minecraft and have an api
05:19 < dx> like.. spigot?
05:21 < niel> seems spout in 1.5 I wanted to check it out again ):
05:22 < dx> kaendfinger: the bukkit project does patch MC. they've got net.minecraft.server partially deobfuscated classes in the source tree of the craftbukkit project, and they patch functionality sometimes directly, most of the time by subclassing
05:22 < umby24> Clients list updated, kaendfinger 
05:22 < kaendfinger> umby24, Yes
05:22 < kaendfinger> umby24, Thanks
05:22 < kaendfinger> dx, Oh ok, but yes, like Spigot kinda
05:24 < samrg472> minecraft php client O_o
05:25 < umby24> seen it for classic mc as well
05:26 < niel> just wondering does advanced openGL actually help anyone?
05:27 < dx> it's got a great placebo effect
05:27 < dx> i've heard lots of different things about it
05:27 < umby24> gives me a good fps boost
05:32 < dx> advanced opengl makes me feel warm and fuzzy, with more energy and happier in general.
05:35 < niel> it kills my computer
05:35 < dx> literally?
05:38 < niel> yep
05:38 < niel> it died
05:38 < niel> cpr
05:38 < kaendfinger> xD
05:38 < kaendfinger> 2013-09-22 03:33:12 [INFO] [Minetweak] New Player: kendfinger
05:38 < kaendfinger> <3 Logging
05:39 < dx> i don't get it
05:39 < dx> what's so awesome about that log line?
05:40 < kaendfinger> dx, Its not the log line, as much as its what the code that said that did
05:40 < kaendfinger> It Saved : My Last Login Time, my Username, how many times I've logged in
05:40 < kaendfinger> And stuff like that
05:41 < kaendfinger> "2013-09-22 03:31:43 [INFO] [Minetweak] Starting Minetweak v0.6.8 implementing Minecraft v1.6.4"
05:41 < kaendfinger> Should I maybe say what protocol version it is
05:42 < dx> that reminds me i gotta set up a sqlalchemy backend for the uwsgi logging of a project i'm writing
05:42 < dx> it's almost completely unrelated, but you reminded me
05:42 < kaendfinger> xD
05:43 < kaendfinger> http://www.rethinkdb.com/ < I'm adding support for Storing Permissions in that
05:43 < dx> way too overkill
05:43 < kaendfinger> What, Permissions in RethinkDB?
05:43 < dx> yes
05:43 < dx> i've tried using it once. once
05:44 < kaendfinger> RethinkDB, I thought it was good?
05:44 < zml> yeah, permissions really doesn't need anything other than flatfile
05:44 < kaendfinger> true
05:44 < kaendfinger> But still
05:44 < kaendfinger> Default is flat file
05:44 < dx> rethinkdb defaults to 1gb of caching and is designed for natural clustering and sharding
05:44 < dx> 1gb of in-memory caching, i mean
05:45 < dx> the server itself uses 50mb or so when just started, which might sound like little for you java guys, but fuck that
05:45 < umby24> XD
05:45 < kaendfinger> dx, I have a good machine so idc about Javas GIGANTIC Memory Usage
05:45 < kaendfinger> But its very fast
05:46 < dx> let's not talk about that
05:46 < kaendfinger> Compared to Ruby
05:46 < kaendfinger> And node.js, and its less memory intensive than Python
05:46 < dx> having said that about rethinkdb, i actually like it, but haven't found a good excuse to use it
05:47 < dx> there's nothing in my personal project list that actually requires that kind of clustering
05:47 < kaendfinger> dx, So does it easily convert to JSON
05:47 < dx> but reql is nice
05:47 < dx> huh?
05:47 < kaendfinger> So if it stores JSON Documents
05:47 < dx> using rethinkdb only for the json is what i call overkill
05:47 < iBotPeaches> rethinkdb for permissions??????
05:47 < iBotPeaches> overkill beyond extreme
05:48 < dx> ^
05:48 < kaendfinger> Ok ok
05:48 < kaendfinger> Then no I wont xD
05:48 < kaendfinger> Still, I have a good Idea for this
05:48 < kaendfinger> http://code.minetweak.org/Higgins/Core
05:48 < kaendfinger> Thats another Project
05:48 < kaendfinger> its a Personal Assistant in Groovy
05:49 < dx> that page requires login to gitlab
05:49 < kaendfinger> Oh yeah
05:49 < kaendfinger> One sec
05:50 < kaendfinger> :( Fuck you Gitlab xD
05:50 < dx> good job
05:50 < kaendfinger> I'll push it to GitHub
05:51 < dx> if you just need json document storage, go with couchdb
05:51 < kaendfinger> https://github.com/DirectMyFile/Higgins
05:52 < kaendfinger> dx, Ok
05:52 < iBotPeaches> i've always been a mongo guy, need to look up all this hype about couch
05:52 < dx> lol 'hype'
05:52 < iBotPeaches> hype = hackernews
05:52 < dx> iBotPeaches: oh, you mean the news about bigcouch merge?
05:53 < kaendfinger> So CouchDB
05:53 < iBotPeaches> dx: if that was the article that was on HN like a month ago
05:53 < kaendfinger> dafaq is it and why should I use it
05:53 < kaendfinger> http://couchdb.apache.org/
05:53 < kaendfinger> OH THAT LOOKS COOL
05:56 < kaendfinger> http://www.mongodb.com/json-and-bson
05:56 < kaendfinger> What about this MongoDB
05:56 <+md_5> mongodb is the most mainstream by far
05:57 < kaendfinger> Ok
05:57 <+md_5> shouldnt you focus on actual features for your server
05:57 < kaendfinger> md_5, This isnt for the Server Now
05:57 <+md_5> instead of convoluted permissions systems no one will ever use
05:57 < kaendfinger> This is just for Higgins
05:57 < kaendfinger> https://github.com/DirectMyFile/Higgins
05:57 < iBotPeaches> 1) get a readme. no clue what it is
05:58 < iBotPeaches> 2) your commit messages didn't help me either figure out what it is
05:58 < dx> 3) the code doesn't help either
05:58 < kaendfinger> Yeah Sorry xD
05:59 < kaendfinger> I had a description on GitLab
05:59 < dx> oh god
05:59 < dx> these commit messages are terrible
05:59 < dx> you're not good at this
05:59 <+md_5> Initial Commit
05:59 < dx> even if it was a private project, your future self is going to hate you for these commit messages
05:59 < kaendfinger> I was asleep xD
05:59 <+md_5> Add Code Comments
06:00 <+md_5> Added a ton of shit.
06:00 <+md_5> Added some cool stuff
06:00 <+md_5> lmao
06:00 < kaendfinger> xD
06:00 < kaendfinger> Ever heard of Forge Essentials?
06:00 < dx> the project that tries to reinvent the wheel of most common bukkit plugins and fails at it?
06:01 < kaendfinger> Well, kinda, its being rewritten
06:01 < kaendfinger> (I'm on the team xD)
06:01 < dx> ...oh
06:01 < kaendfinger> I told them to take the shit and not make it shit
06:01 < dx> sorry for being blunt then
06:01 < kaendfinger> dx, I agree with you though
06:01 < kaendfinger> I told them to make it worth it
06:01 < dx> just do not try to reinvent worldedit
06:01 < dx> please don't
06:02 < kaendfinger> I'm not
06:02 < kaendfinger> We actually use ASM and Transform WorldEdit
06:03 < dx> not sure what happened about worldedit actually getting a forge api
06:03 < kaendfinger> dx, I think sk didnt like LexManos
06:03 < dx> i vaguely remember hearing wizjany saying it was 'almost done' a few months ago...
06:03 < kaendfinger> And I can say his name xD
06:03 < kaendfinger> I know him
06:03 < kaendfinger> Very well
06:04 < zml> There was a PR a few days ago that did a lot with the forge API for WE
06:04 < zml> I'm not sure if it's been merged yet
06:04 < kaendfinger> Hmm
06:04 < zml> I don't think so, there were a few last details being worked out
06:04 < kaendfinger> I'm installing MongoDB
06:04 < kaendfinger> CouchDB is too meh
06:04 < dx> mongodb is WebScale™ and uses /dev/null™ storage engines for maximum speed
06:05 < kaendfinger> xD
06:05 < zml> oh, /dev/null? That's where I store all my most important work. It gives such fast save times
06:05 < dx> kaendfinger: are you aware that rethinkdb is meant to replace mongodb and correct its flaws?
06:06 < dx> if you're going with that crap, just go with rethinkdb
06:06 < kaendfinger> dx, Really, xD Ok
06:06 < kaendfinger> And NO for the last time this is not for a MC Server
06:06 < kaendfinger> lol
06:08 < dx> just to be clear, i said "meant to replace" but this isn't anything official, it's just the general direction rdb seems to aim for
06:09 < kaendfinger> btw, Higgins is in Groovy
06:09 < kaendfinger> So its much more sexy code
06:10 < dx> sexier than what, though
06:10 < dx> than visual basic?
06:10 < dx> than brainfuck?
06:11 <+md_5> clearly clojure
06:11 < kaendfinger> Java
06:11 < kaendfinger> Clojure
06:12 < kaendfinger> Scala is pure shit and should die in a hole
06:12 < kaendfinger> http://groovy.codehaus.org/
06:12 < kaendfinger> Groovy combines Java, Smalltalk, Ruby, Python features into one
06:12 < kaendfinger> def name='World'; println "Hello $name!"
06:12 < dx> md_5: i like clojure :(
06:12 < kaendfinger> Clojure is by Google right?
06:13 < dx> that's the javascript framework or something
06:13 < dx> called closure
06:13 < kaendfinger> Ahh
06:14 < dx> which is a terrible name
06:14 < kaendfinger> xD
06:14 < zml> groovy is almost java
06:14 < zml> but more scripty
06:14 < kaendfinger> zml, Groovy is Java plus 9999999999999 more things that are awesome
06:14 < kaendfinger> Groovy takes Java and beats it ass till it works like it should
06:14 < zml> jdk8 takes care of half of them probably
06:14 < kaendfinger> zml, Nope
06:15 < dx> zml: when is jdk8 going to be something we can use? i want my lambdas
06:15 < kaendfinger> All that Lambda stuff is nothing like this
06:15 < kaendfinger> http://groovy.codehaus.org/Closures
06:15 < kaendfinger> def clos = { println "hello!" }
06:15 < kaendfinger> println "Executing the Closure:"
06:15 < kaendfinger> clos()  
06:15 < kaendfinger> def incByConst = { num -> num + myConst }
06:15 < kaendfinger> :D
06:16 < zml> dx: release early 2014, then probably a few years until you can use it in stuff that's going to run in environments you don't control
06:16 < dx> zml: fair enough, thanks
06:16 < zml> kaendfinger: that's pretty much what jdk8 can do
06:17 < zml> also jdk8 lets interfaces have code (not data, only code)
06:17 < kaendfinger> zml, Also, Groovy is epic
06:17 < dx> lel
06:17 < zml> java is a better balance of everywhere and fancy features
06:18 < kaendfinger> http://docs.codehaus.org/display/GROOVY/Reading+Files+Line+by+Line < I wrote that Page, read it
06:18 < kaendfinger> def gradleScript = new File('build.gradle')
06:18 < kaendfinger> gradleScript.eachLine {
06:18 < kaendfinger> if (!it.startsWith('def version')) {return}
06:19 < kaendfinger> println evaluate(it)
06:19 < kaendfinger> }
06:19 < dx> >evaluate
06:19 < dx> i seriously hope it has a different meaning in your language than everywhere else
06:19 < dx> otherwise you might have non-literal cancer
06:19 < kaendfinger> Wanna see something, if I may please bring an IRC Bot for like 1 sec
06:19 < kaendfinger> Its easier to demonstrate
06:20 < dx> just pastebin usage of that bot
06:20 < kaendfinger> Huh? xD
06:20 < dx> channel rules, i don't decide them
06:20 < dx> no bots except Not-002
06:20 < kaendfinger> Can you join #kaendfinger so I can do it then?
06:21 < dx> welp
06:21 < dx> okay
06:26 < dx> it's straight eval.
06:26 < dx> not sure what else i expected
11:40 < morfin> hello
11:45 < Not-002> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/KgZcDA
11:45 < Not-002> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn 3f03c9f - Update README.md
15:06 < morfin> anyone can tell me
15:06 < morfin> what server is doing between ticks
17:14 <+sadimusi> kaendfinger: did you manage to create a wiki account yet?
17:16 < dx> sadimusi: don't think so
17:16 < dx> sadimusi: also what's the deal with that captcha? i missed the news
17:17 <+sadimusi> that was probably a response to the last wave of spam bots
17:17 <+sadimusi> personally I would prefer the system we had in the beginning
17:17 < dx> same
17:17 < dx> captchas like that *can* fail if there's a human behind the botnet
17:19 <+sadimusi> that was the case with the dwarves question
17:19 <+sadimusi> so what exactly is the problem? does the correct answer get rejected?
17:31 < dx> no idea
21:00 < Not-002> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/QhwLRA
21:00 < Not-002> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn d6f0abd - Update solution file configurations
21:00 < Not-002> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn db07213 - Merge branch 'master' of github.com:SirCmpwn/SMProxy
22:13 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 2 commits to master [+1/-0/±2] http://git.io/BcXp0A
22:13 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 5ab9be4 - Fix problem with spawning underwater
22:13 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn fab24fe - Fix bug causing crashes when digging too low
22:30 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±6] http://git.io/Y8wAug
22:30 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 9468478 - Save player information in player.dat files
23:36 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/Q6Vq2Q
23:36 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn a5779d1 - Fix #187
--- Day changed lun. sept. 23 2013
01:42 < kaendfinger> Hello
01:42 < kaendfinger> How is everyone?
01:42 < kaendfinger> Oh wow, umm, Not-002, we have Notifico too
01:44 < kaendfinger> Question: Anyone know what changed in the protocol in R78
01:44 < kaendfinger> Also, would the people who own this channel like a Teamspeak?
01:45 < kaendfinger> About the protocol, the MC Client gives me this exception (i'm still using the 74 protocol specs, with the version bumped) https://minetweak.atlassian.net/secure/attachment/10200/desktop%201_002.png
01:47 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to snapshot [+0/-0/±3] http://git.io/sE3h3w
01:47 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn f38c7a9 - 13w38c support
01:57 < Not-002> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/j3W-2g
01:57 < Not-002> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn 554912f - Update README.md
03:40 < Seegee> md_5
03:40 < Seegee> +md_5
03:41 < Vipur> +md_5
03:41 < Vipur> md_5
03:41 < Vipur> We luv u
03:41 < Viktor_Hroogeirr> Two Jewish businessmen were discussing insurance. "You need fire insurance, burglary insurance and flood insurance." "The fire and theft and burglary I can understand," said the other, "but the flood insurance? How do you start a flood?"
03:41 < Bohuslav_Aristot> How does a girl from Harlem practice safe sex? She locks the car doors. 
03:41 < Holmgeirr_Iomhar> What is the difference between Batman and a black man? Batman can go into a convenience store without Robin. 
03:41 < Birgir_Peppino> Did you hear that the KKK bought the movie rights to Roots? They're going to play it backwards so it has a happy ending. 
03:41 < Modesto_Fergus> What are the 3 things you cannot give a black guy? A fat lip, a black eye, or a job. 
03:41 < Shel_Mutamid> I wouldn't dream of being racist towards my black neighbour.... I'd actually do it. 
03:41 < Blagun_Prabhakar> "Life is like a box of chocolates." Not all the black ones can be trusted.
03:41 < Njord_Cainan> What did the Alabama sherriff call the nigger who had been shot 15 times? Worst case of suicide he had ever seen.
03:41 < Swithun_Harduwic> What do nigger pimps and farmers have in common? They both need a hoe to stay in business! 
03:41 < Chenaniah_Iomhar> What do you call 100 niggers on the bottom of the sea? A good start. 
03:41 < Andre_Gunnar> Why do niggers have red eyes after sex? Pepper spray.
03:41 < Vincent_Mikhailo> What do you get when you cross a nigger and a gorilla? A really stupid gorilla. 
03:41 < Karel_Mikhah> I've always got on with my neighbors. That was until we had a black family move in next door. Suddenly everything changed. Doors were constantly being slammed, there was shouting and music was played at full blast into the small hours. Despite trying all that, I still couldn't get that damn black family to move out.
03:41 < Albert_Toma> How does a Mexican get into an honest business? Through the window. 
03:41 < Vipur> were ur niggest fans
03:41 < Rickey_Xavior> What do you call 100 niggers on the bottom of the sea? A good start. 
03:41 < Randulf_David> Why do blacks have white hands and feet? They were on all fours when God spray painted them!
03:41 < Andre_Hludowig> Why are there only 2 pall bearers at a nigger’s funeral? A garbage can only has two handles!
03:41 < Blagun_Fergus> What do a nigger and a bicycle have in common? They only work with a chain on. 
03:41 < Andras_Honoratus> What's a crying shame? When a bus full of niggers drives off a cliff and there were 3 empty seats.
03:41 < Ferdinand_Cibran> I went to a fancy dress party the other day dressed as Adolf Hitler. Everyone thought it was hilarious. Until they found three dead Jews in the shower.
03:41 < Albert_Leontios> Why was the wheelbarrow invented? To teach niggers to walk on their hind legs.
03:41 < Rickey_Girisha> What did God say when he made the first nigger? Oops! I burnt this one!
03:41 < Jeriah_Bo> I wouldn't dream of being racist towards my black neighbour.... I'd actually do it. 
03:41 < Abolfazl_Chijind> A large cruise ship strikes an iceberg and slowly begins to sink. The captain declares he is going to need to remove some weight from the boat or it will surely sink. He says to be fair, and not discriminate, we will have to call out people in alphabetical order to jump off the ship. Everyone agrees this is the only fair way. The captain then declares "All African Americans, jump overboard!" A niglet tells his dad"Oh noes, dat be us". His nigge
03:41 < Ichabod_Aristotl> What's the difference between a black and a white fairytale? White begins, "once upon a time," black begins, "y'all motherfuckers ain't gonna believe dis shit!" 
03:41 < Kevyn_David> What do you get when you cross a nigger and a gorilla? A really stupid gorilla. 
03:41 < Byron_Cebrian> What do you call one black guy on moon? A problem. What do you call two black guys on the moon? A problem What do you call the entire race of black? guys on the moon? A problem solved.
03:41 < Ikraam_Chijindum> Why do niggers have red eyes after sex? Pepper spray.
03:41 < Oden_Ganix> Why don't sharks eat niggers? They think its whale shit! 
03:41 < Hariwald_Cainan> Did you hear about the guy that broke into the local library and stole hundreds of books? Nobody knows who he is yet, but police say, "it certainly wasn't a nigger."
03:41 < Grzegorz_Hludowi> Why don't niggers like asprin? They're white, they work and you have to pick cotten to find them. 
03:41 < Rishi_Zhenya> A Liverpool docker went to South Africa for a job. The boss tells him: "Its people like you we want here. Here's a test. There's a revolver, go out and shoot 6 niggers and a rabbit." The docker asks: "Why do I have to shoot the rabbit?" He got the job. 
03:41 < Otmar_Mutamid> What do black men do after sex? 15 years to life. 
03:41 < Euripides_Silvio> I've always got on with my neighbors. That was until we had a black family move in next door. Suddenly everything changed. Doors were constantly being slammed, there was shouting and music was played at full blast into the small hours. Despite trying all that, I still couldn't get that damn black family to move out.
03:41 < Euripides_Fergus> The black guy I was walking behind stopped, turned and asked "Are you following me?" "No", I said "You've got evolution all mixed up." 
03:41 < Andras_Chijindum> Did you hear about the guy that broke into the local library and stole hundreds of books? Nobody knows who he is yet, but police say, "it certainly wasn't a nigger."
03:41 < Rickey_Monet> How does a black chick tell if she's pregnant? When she pulls the tampon out, all the cotton is already picked.
03:41 < Fritjof_Uzochi> Did you hear about the guy that broke into the local library and stole hundreds of books? Nobody knows who he is yet, but police say, "it certainly wasn't a nigger."
03:41 < Heber_Damodara> A Liverpool docker went to South Africa for a job. The boss tells him: "Its people like you we want here. Here's a test. There's a revolver, go out and shoot 6 niggers and a rabbit." The docker asks: "Why do I have to shoot the rabbit?" He got the job. 
03:41 < Nicolaas_Jewell> What did the Alabama sherriff call the nigger who had been shot 15 times? Worst case of suicide he had ever seen.
03:41 < Iared_Cebrian> What's the difference between karate and judo? Karate is a method of self defence and judo is what bagels are made of!
03:41 < Jairus_Gabriel> How do you make a nigger nervous? Take it to an auction. 
03:41 < Modesto_Zlatan> A nigger and a little white boy are debating on whether God is black or White. finally the little white boy says, "let's ask God!" The White boy looks to Heaven and asks, "God, are you black or white?" God replies, "Well boys, I am what I am." The White boys exclaims, "well, that proves it, God is White!" The nigger asks, "how do you know?" The White boy replies, "if God was a nigger he woulda said 'I iz what I iz!'" 
03:41 < Itai_Marian> What's the difference between a Jew and a canoe? A canoe tips!
03:41 < Irving_Zlatan> Whats faster then a nigger running with your TV? His brother with the VCR. 
03:41 < Godtfred_Eusebio> What do you call two Mexicans playing basketball against each other? Juan on Juan. 
03:41 < Holmgeirr_Girish> I was on the bus the other day when a massive nigger came and sat next to me. I slowly started edging away from him and he said; "What, you think I'm gonna steal from you, cos I'm black?" "No, I think you're going to steal from me because you have a fucking gun!" 
03:41 < Kaspars_Bo> What did the sunbather shout at the nigger? Ain't you dark enough already?
03:41 < Coilean_Bo> A Mexican and a nigger are riding in car. Who's driving? A cop.
03:41 < Ferdinand_Prabha> Why don't niggers go on cruises? They're not falling for that one again.
03:41 < Ichabod_Nico> What do you call the New Orleans Superdome full of milk? Cocoa Puffs.
03:41 < Swithun_Ah> What do you say when you wake up in the middle of the night and your TVs floating in the air? Drop it nigger! 
03:41 < Jehoshaphat_Kuna> Why do decent white folks shop at nigger yard sales? To get all their stuff back. 
03:41 < Hugo_Gruffud> What's yellow and black and makes you laugh ? A bus full of niggers going over a cliff.
03:41 < Kevyn_Henrik> I've got this black friend... just kidding. 
03:41 < Kumara_Islwyn> There was a 4 car crash in Mexico today. 243 people died.
03:41 < Kevyn_Narcisse> Whitney Houston’s life is like skiing. Once you get on the white powder, it’s all down hill from there
03:41 < Hermanni_Tendai> Whats long and hard on a nigger? First grade. 
03:41 < Irving_Leontios> A nigger and a spic fall from a tree, who hits the ground first? The spic, the nigger never makes it because he's stopped by the rope. 
03:41 < Janko_Cebrian> I've always got on with my neighbors. That was until we had a black family move in next door. Suddenly everything changed. Doors were constantly being slammed, there was shouting and music was played at full blast into the small hours. Despite trying all that, I still couldn't get that damn black family to move out.
03:41 < Merle_Honoratus> What's the most confusing day in Harlem? Fathers Day! 
03:41 < Freyr_Alfie> A Liverpool docker went to South Africa for a job. The boss tells him: "Its people like you we want here. Here's a test. There's a revolver, go out and shoot 6 niggers and a rabbit." The docker asks: "Why do I have to shoot the rabbit?" He got the job. 
03:41 < Kaspars_Henrik> Hear about G.M.'s new nigger Cadillac? The glove compartment's big enough to hold a watermelon. 
03:41 < Kumara_Islwyn1> Whats a Mexicans favourite sport? Cross Country.
03:41 < Bohuslav_Bernard> 'There is safety in numbers' Unless there are 6,000,000 of you. And you are all Jews. 
03:41 < Hermanni_Tendai1> What was the only thing missing from the million man march? An auctionner
03:41 < Coilean_Leontios> A nigger and a little white boy are debating on whether God is black or White. finally the little white boy says, "let's ask God!" The White boy looks to Heaven and asks, "God, are you black or white?" God replies, "Well boys, I am what I am." The White boys exclaims, "well, that proves it, God is White!" The nigger asks, "how do you know?" The White boy replies, "if God was a nigger he woulda said 'I iz what I iz!'" 
03:41 < Andras_Honoratus> What do you call 100 niggers on the bottom of the sea? A good start. 
03:41 < Chenaniah_Bysshe> Have you heard scientists have bred a nigger with an octopus? It's an ugly fucker, but it sure can pick cotton. 
03:41 < Qadir_Xavior> What's the difference between a nigger and a bouncy castle? You dont take your shoes off to jump on a nigger! 
03:41 < Inge_Douglass> What do black men do after sex? 15 years to life. 
03:41 < Tranter_Uwe> How does a girl from Harlem practice safe sex? She locks the car doors. 
03:41 < Tacitus_Zlatan> What do you call a barn full of dead niggers? Out dated farm equipment.
03:41 < dexter0> TKTech
03:41 < Grzegorz_Roni> Why did the nigger walks into a bar? The cell door was still locked.
03:41 < Heber_Islwyn> How do you know Adam and Eve were not black? You ever try to take a rib from a nigger? 
03:41 < Janika_Milosz> "Still hung. Over." replied the KKK member being asked about the condition of the nigger over his 2 way radio. 
03:41 < Kaspars_Prochoro> Why do niggers have red eyes after sex? Pepper spray.
03:41 < Otmar_Eusebio> What do you call two Mexicans playing basketball against each other? Juan on Juan. 
03:41 < Rodge_Donald> Why do blacks have white hands and feet? They were on all fours when God spray painted them!
03:41 < Rodge_Donald1> Why do black people have white hands? Everyone has some good in them.
03:41 < dexter0> Sadimusi
03:42 <+md_5> TkTech lmfao they are targeting me
03:42 <+md_5> just did it on EsperNet
03:42 < Seegee> md_5
03:42 < Seegee> I love you
03:42 <+md_5> !kickban Seegee 
03:42 <+md_5> TkTech he is launching the bots
03:42 < Seegee> d
03:42 <+md_5> ._.
03:42 < Seegee> CANT BAN ME
03:42 -!- Seegee was kicked from #mcdevs by TkTech [Your behavior is not conducive to the desired environment.]
03:42 < Vipur> md5
03:42 < Vipur> We love you
03:42 < Vipur> Why u do this
03:43 < Zachoz> lol
03:43 < Vipur> We show our affection
03:43 -!- Vipur was kicked from #mcdevs by TkTech [Your behavior is not conducive to the desired environment.]
03:43 <@TkTech> I've got a new pot of coffee and all night.
03:43 <+md_5> > show affection
03:43 <+md_5> > launches bots at me across multiple irc networks
03:43 <+md_5> k
03:43 <@TkTech> It's a phase md_5. Script kiddies will be script kiddies, at some point they all try to flood a couple of channels.
03:44 <+md_5> true true
03:46 < kaendfinger> dafaq is going on!?!?!?!
03:46 < kaendfinger> What the hell just happened
03:48 < kaendfinger> md_5, What channel on EsperNet?
03:48 <+md_5> kaendfinger every channel I;'m in
03:48 < kaendfinger> Also, Who here is on EsperNet?
03:48 <+md_5> lmao
03:48 < kaendfinger> md_5, xD
03:59 < Drainedsoul> I'm sending clients 0x33 columns when they log in, and everything seems fine, but in the F3 information the biome doesn't seem to be displayed properly
05:53 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to snapshot [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/OIn2dQ
05:53 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 181db4c - Add new biomes
06:26  * dx checks lastlog
06:26 < dx> tehme actually left the channel after i told him it was ban evasion, nice.
06:31 <+md_5> dx nothing much, I just got raped across multiple irc networks and my site ddosd :p
06:31 <+md_5> those spambots were targeting me
06:32 < dx> md_5: why do you get targeted by such classy gentlemen?
06:32 <+md_5> dx I dunno
06:32 <+md_5> this was the first time
06:33 <+md_5> he told me my code was so shitty
06:33 <+md_5> he would ddos my site until I fixed it
06:33 < umby24> .-.
06:33 < dx> they did that in this channel before though
06:33 < dexter0> The guy from that github issue a while back?
06:33 <+md_5> nah
06:33 <+md_5> I have no idea who this was
06:34 <+md_5> I dont think they counted on me being sponsored by a massive ddos protection company
06:34 < dx> cloudflare? :D
06:34 <+md_5> nah
06:34 <+md_5> had to disable cloudflare
06:35 <+md_5> so it could properly be mitigated
06:35 < dx> fun
06:35 <+md_5> then after the attacked cloudflare banned me for 7 days xD
06:35 < dx> wat
06:35 <+md_5> yeah
06:35 <+md_5> if you get a big ddos without being on business or enterprise
06:35 <+md_5> they ban you
06:35 <+md_5> I'm only on pro
06:35 < dx> how useful
06:36 < dx> (and i mean that ironically, just to be clear)
06:56 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 3 commits to master [+0/-0/±13] http://git.io/YdMwQA
06:57 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 40da9bf - Fixed most inventory transactions "Painting" still does not work
06:57 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn ea4490b - Fix dropping items from inventory
06:57 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 9bb5fdd - Implement inventory "painting"
07:10 < Drainedsoul> Why couldn't I join the channel ~90 minutes ago
07:11 <+md_5> because it was accidentally left +i
07:11 <+md_5> little botting incident
07:14 < Drainedsoul> did anyone comment on my issue wrt biomes while I was gone, or no
07:17 < Drainedsoul> are all the built in plugin channels that use strings UTF-16, EXCEPT MC|Brand which uses UTF-8?
07:21 < SinZ> they should all be ucs-2 as that is what Mojang uses
07:26 <+md_5> MC|Brand is utf-8
07:26 <+md_5> because mojang is poop
07:26 <+md_5> utf-8, no length header
07:36 < Drainedsoul> @SinZ: Mojang uses UTF-16, not UCS-2
07:36 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/0YkM2Q
07:36 < Drainedsoul> @md_5: thanks
07:36 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 8988ea6 - Dispose clients after disconnect
07:57 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±3] http://git.io/3ucSUw
07:57 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 0eed627 - Improve player entity tracking with respect to stationary entities
07:57 < SinZ> Drainedsoul: Do you even know what UCS-2 is?
07:58 < Drainedsoul> do you?
07:59 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/5MChKA
07:59 < Drainedsoul> it's a 16-bit fixed-width representation of a Unicode code point which lies in the range 0-65535 (inclusive)
07:59 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 13878ea - Change default test server generator, remove test code
07:59 < SinZ> Which is what Minecraft uses
08:00 < SinZ> owait, nvm
08:01 < dx> SinZ: we found out that it's not really UCS-2 but looks a lot like it
08:02 < dx> well, "we", it was mostly Drainedsoul as far as i remember
08:06 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/Q2Zjcg
08:06 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn 5a12cd0 - Add error handler around saving player.dat files
08:09 < Drainedsoul> the vanilla server sends/receives/parses the G Clef character, which is outside the BMP, Q.E.D.
08:09 < Drainedsoul> that was sadimusi and I iirc
10:54 < Not-002> [bravo] MostAwesomeDude pushed 6 commits to master [+0/-0/±24] http://git.io/3tWKUw
10:55 < Not-002> [bravo] Alexey McSakhoff fe78153 - Bump up to protocol version 61.
10:55 < Not-002> [bravo] Alexey McSakhoff 2f3cc7f - Packet unittests: - 0x17: Add vehicle/object - 0x28: Entity metadata
10:55 < Not-002> [bravo] Alexey McSakhoff 8f424c4 - Location fixes: - creating items - collecting items in range
10:55 < Not-002> [bravo] Alexey McSakhoff 24261b8 - Proper slot implementation + fix dropping items
10:55 < Not-002> [bravo] Corbin Simpson b92b845 - Merge branch 'protocol_61_fixes' of git://github.com/neenar/bravo
10:55 < Not-002> [bravo] Corbin Simpson f185e32 - A test that was broken now succeeds.
12:00 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 5 commits to master [+0/-0/±11] http://git.io/iKCpDA
12:00 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 4d8d54d - world: Infinite world done
12:01 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath b63ab79 - world: Support setting the dimension
12:01 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 423f63d - world: Add biomes
12:01 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath ae42e4a - world: Allow setting and getting data values
12:01 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 229727e - world/flat: Biome support
12:11 <+ammar2> Drainedsoul: I think it being called UCS-2 is just a case of someone finding out and saying, "ohey this works with ucs-2." Strings are written out with writeChars and the javadocs pretty clearly state what a character is http://docs.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/lang/Character.html
16:33 < morfin> i have no idea how to synchronize server and client
16:59 < nyuszika7h> anyone got an idea on this? http://zerobin.net/
16:59 < nyuszika7h> er
17:00 < nyuszika7h> http://zerobin.net/?68992e1b96f04560#EtUNl8Ta9qlyjNQhBhQey1vJn4TUKMDRUi4TFMJaLCY=
17:00 < nyuszika7h> that traceback is on yggdrasil.auth('nyuszika7h@cadoth.net', getpass.getpass())
17:00 < nyuszika7h> (note, that email is old, but it's still associated with my Mojang account)
17:01 <+sadimusi> your json might be missing some quotes
17:02 <+sadimusi> ah no, you're not using json at all
17:02 < nyuszika7h> oh, I didn't encode it
17:02 < nyuszika7h> after code cleanup
17:02 <+sadimusi> requests uses the usual multipart encoding by default
17:02 <+sadimusi> s/multipart/x-form-something/
17:03 < nyuszika7h>     response = requests.post('https://authserver.mojang.com/authenticate',
17:03 < nyuszika7h> -                              data, headers=headers, verify=True)
17:03 < nyuszika7h> +                              json.dumps(data), headers=headers, verify=True)
17:03 < nyuszika7h> this fixed it
17:04 < nyuszika7h> sadimusi: x-www-form-urlencoded?
17:04 <+sadimusi> yeah that one
17:40 < morfin> how do you think is this possible to make frontend server which will have several realms as backends and allow to migrate between realms?
17:41 <+sadimusi> morfin: you're not making much sense
17:41 <+sadimusi> (as usual)
17:41 < morfin> why?
17:42 < morfin> one server will work as proxy and separate servers will be backends with possibly different rules etc
17:42 <+sadimusi> rephrase your question, maybe someone can answer it then
17:42 <+sadimusi> you mean bc?
17:43 <+sadimusi> (bc == BungeeCord in case you're not familiar with it=
17:43 <+sadimusi> *)
17:44 < morfin> ow
17:45 <+sadimusi> there are also a lot of multiworld plugins which do similar things
17:45 < morfin> that's not just multiworld
17:45 < morfin> do you know does it disconnect you when you teleport to another server?
17:46 <+sadimusi> of course not
17:46 < morfin> hmmm
17:47 <+sadimusi> the architecture of multiworld is quite different, but the result for the user is almost identical
17:47 < morfin> bungeecord is being installed into server and as proxy 
17:47 < morfin> as i see
17:48 <+sadimusi> it's a proxy, yes
17:55 < morfin> oh lol
17:56 < morfin> i've looked at rewriting ints in their code :D
17:57 < morfin> https://github.com/SpigotMC/BungeeCord/blob/master/proxy/src/main/java/net/md_5/bungee/EntityMap.java
17:57 < morfin> that looks very strange
20:00 < Jckf> Damned Quassel
20:00 < Jckf> Stop disconnecting me
20:00 < Jckf> And when you do, don't just rejain all channels except mcdevs!
20:00 < Jckf> *rejoin
20:27 <@TkTech> Jckf: Probably has an issue with +r channels.
20:27 <@TkTech> It doesn't register you quickly enough before trying to join, and doesn't retry after.
20:27 < Jckf> [17:26:13] * #mcdevs: Cannot join channel (+r) - you need to be identified with services
20:27 < Jckf> So it would seem
20:27 < Jckf> Which means it executes autojoin before identify
20:28 < Jckf> Silly
20:28 < Jckf> No wait. It does not. Because I am in +r channels on other networks as well
20:37 < Jckf> Latency between me and services perhaps
22:31 < Not-002> [FemtoCraft] fragmer * r129 2 files : Improved logging of the log-in process: messages added for situations where connection limit is exceeded, server is full, someone is kicked to make room for an op, etc. Also fixed ops being checked against MaxConnections setting, instead of OpMaxConnections setting.
22:38 < Not-002> [FemtoCraft] fragmer * r130 2 files : Added a config option to allow Mojanged (email-only) player names.
--- Day changed mar. sept. 24 2013
00:48 <+md_5> TkTech we can probs remove +r now
00:55 < TkTech> Any con to leaving it on? Doesn't seem to be affecting the majority of the channel.
00:59 < Drainedsoul> it's kind of a pain disconnecting and not auto-rejoining, and then missing things because you didn't notice.  Should probably setup a bouncer anyway though.
01:01 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: if you want I can make you a znc account
01:01 < dav1d> my vps is idling anyways
01:01 < dav1d> special bonus, I have a webchat for the znc setup
01:20 < Drainedsoul> dav1d: Sure, if it's not too much trouble.  I tried fiddling around with it on Ubuntu a while back, but couldn't get it working and moved onto other things ._.
01:25 <+md_5> fak
01:25 <+md_5> in the udp query
01:26 <+md_5> what encoding are the strings
01:29 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: sure thing, I'll make you an account tomorrow
01:29 < dav1d> sleep time
06:47 < morfin> bdzfjkdrgzf'podrgzfs
06:47 < morfin> ooops
06:48 < morfin> i saw BC in work: but i do not understand what for it's rewriting some stuff
07:20 <+md_5> morfin hey! Bungeecord creator here!
07:21 <+md_5> we need to rewrite certain  entity ids in packets, because when we switch servers we get a new entity id
07:21 <+md_5> unfortunately we cant tell the client about this new id, so we have to translate it
10:55 < dividuum> is there any clean way to change the clients entity id? can i resend 0x01 (login request) with a different entity id
10:56 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 9 commits to master [+5/-1/±12] http://git.io/qCchfg
10:56 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 580b35d - /: Added list ping events
10:56 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 17ee71e - entity/player: Corrected filename
10:56 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 31bf0a5 - /: Player join event
10:56 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 07d8b7f - entity/player: Exported username and conn
10:56 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 49f9f12 - /: Added some missing documentation and allowed players to be disconnected during a join event
10:56 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath d6854e2 - entity/player: Block place event
10:56 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 0b786d0 - world: Block placement and saving fixes
10:56 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath b7b8f3d - world: region unloading
10:56 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 0bd1955 - blocks: Created
10:59 < Thinkofdeath> dividuum: From quick testing it doesn't look like sending again 0x01 will work
11:01 < dividuum> ok
11:02 < dividuum> so i have to masquerade entity ids, if I want to forward the connection from a lobby server to a game server.
11:06 < Thinkofdeath> I think that is what bungee does
11:09 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/V4m8DQ
11:09 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 13808c4 - world: Fix data race in chunk sending
11:25 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: ping
11:29 < Drainedsoul> hi
11:38 < dav1d> Drainedsoul: you got my messages not sure if qwebirc ate it
11:40 < morfin> hmmm
11:41 < morfin> ow
11:41 < morfin> sounds difficult 
11:41 < dav1d> morfin: ?
11:42 < morfin> i mean rewriting entity ids
11:42 < Drainedsoul> what part of that do you think is difficult
11:43 < dx> morfin == dividuum? i'm confused
11:43 < morfin> no
11:43 < dx> okay
11:45 < morfin> i think new login packet will be ignored
11:46 < morfin> i am not sure how it works: as example i join server1 with entity id 666(server tells me that i have ent id 666). Then when i join another server proxy receives new ent id in another login packet right/
11:47 < morfin> but how conflicts are avoided
11:51 < dividuum> bungee does map between client entity ids and proxied server entity ids
11:51 < dividuum> i thought, maybe this can be avoided somehow
11:51 < Drainedsoul> I don't see why it's such a big deal
11:52 < dividuum> because you have in inspect every packet
11:53 < dividuum> it's not a big deal really, but it feels dirty to rewrite various data inside packets.
12:14 < V10lator> Hi, does anyone has any idea why I always get a EOFException at line 13 (in.readByte()) ? http://pastie.org/8351323 - This is for a Bukkit plugin, so Packet254GetInfo and Packet255KickDisconnect are from NMS
12:16 < V10lator> oh and the pinged server just says I lost connection
12:22 < Drainedsoul> if you're doing network operations, and things like EOF etc. are problems, you're going it wrong.  The other end can disconnect anytime it wants.
12:23 < V10lator> Drainedsoul, yea, I'm doing it wrong, that's what I already know. The question is where exactly I'm doing it wrong. According to http://wiki.vg/Server_List_Ping it should be right
12:54 <+md_5> > packets
12:54 <+md_5> > bukkit plugin
12:54 < V10lator> md_5, what are you trying to say?
12:55 <+md_5> I'm trying to say WTF are you doing
12:55 <+md_5> starting a 3rd party MC server from within a bukkit plugin
12:56 <+md_5> for starters you arent even writing the packet ID
12:56 < V10lator> I'm not trying to start a server, I'm trying to ping another server to get its infos
12:56 <+md_5> I'd suggest ditching the NMS class entirely, and rolling it all yourself
12:56 <+md_5> its an equal amount of code, and you are free from NMS dependence
12:56 < V10lator> oh, right, the packet ID... *facepalm*
12:57 < V10lator> well, I might change it to my own code later, but first I want it to work ;)
12:58 <+md_5> V10lator http://files.md-5.net/s/3mqTc.png
12:59 < Drainedsoul> synchronous reads whyyy
13:00 < V10lator> Drainedsoul, who says the code is executed in the main thread?
13:00 < Drainedsoul> who cares?  Why are you tying up a thread doing that
13:00 < Drainedsoul> context switches are expensive stuff
13:01 < V10lator> Drainedsoul, if the pinged server is offline it would hang the server till the network timout occurs...
13:02 < Drainedsoul> wat.  You issue an asynchronous read, you do other things, sometime later you get a callback that says hey your read failed
13:03 <+md_5> Drainedsoul java async io sucks balls
13:03 < V10lator> let the multitheading issues be my problem, I'm handling them... ;)
13:03 < Drainedsoul> well then
13:04 < Drainedsoul> roll yourself some nice C/C++ code that hangs around on an epoll fd/iocp/kqueue >:D
13:04 < jast> event loops are the only sane thing
13:04 < jast> but I'd never want to write one myself
13:05 < jast> ideally you have a runtime environment that abstracts all I/O complications away in an implementation of lightweight threads
13:05 < jast> and takes care of CPU in the same way
13:07 < Drainedsoul> well, IOCP/epoll/kqueue all do that
13:07 < jast> they take care of I/O but not of CPU task multiplexing
13:07 <+md_5> this discussion turned offtopic fast
13:08 < jast> plus the control flow tends to be quite a bit more complicated if you're working in the conceptual framework of an event loop
13:08 < Drainedsoul> depends what you mean.  IOCP at the very least does a lot of magic when multiple threads wait on it.
13:08 < jast> yeah, but IOCP isn't very portable
13:08 < Drainedsoul> :( unfortunately
13:08 < jast> and ISTR that someone told me about disadvantages in IOCP, too
13:08 < jast> though I remember zero details :)
13:09 < Drainedsoul> I'd be interested in hearing that, never heard disadvantages for IOCP.  Everything I've heard is positive.
13:09 < Drainedsoul> apparently you can just take the IO part out of it and use it as a worker task queue and it beats anything you can write in userspace
13:13 < jast> not sure if the person who told me about it knew their stuff, anyway :)
13:13 < jast> there's just so much nonsense going around in this field
13:15 < dav1d> lol
13:15 < dav1d> I have to make a socks tunnel to my vps in germany, so I can buy stuff on steam
13:16 < jast> on the surface IOCPs look pretty much exactly like kqueue and friends, just with a different interface
13:18 < jast> now I don't know kqueue very well, but linux's epoll indeed doesn't have the option to add a custom event to the queue
13:18 < jast> that said, if you make a library that abstracts away the underlying I/O completion mechanism, it's very easy to add that
14:28 < morfin> hmmm
14:46 < morfin> only player ent ids require rewriting?
14:54 < morfin> can you ask me: does player move from server to server without any stuff he had in inventory?
15:19 < SinZ> can be done, just requires more work on the front end
15:56 < morfin> o
21:34 < Thinkofdeath> I don't suppose anyone here knows a way to log in with two accounts at once? Minecraft's launcher doesn't seem to work
21:35 <+sadimusi> why not? you should be able to just create two profiles
21:35 < Thinkofdeath> sadimusi: But if I start two launcher and login with both only one can connect to servers
21:37 <+sadimusi> I have to try that myself
21:38 < Thinkofdeath> "Failed to login: Could not log you in :("
21:39 <+ammar2> eeyup, just got the same thing
21:39 <+ammar2> Failed to login: Bad login, even though it was two seperate accounts
21:40 <+sadimusi> the launcher might be refreshing the access tokens of all accounts
21:40 <+sadimusi> I can reproduce it too
21:40 <+ammar2> Dinnerbone: ^^
21:40 < dx> i feel left out, everyone but me owns two accounts
21:40 < dx> ..at least
21:41 < Thinkofdeath> dx: Only one is mine, the other is borrowed for testing :)
21:42 < dx> oh okay
21:43 < dx> https://account.mojang.com/terms i like this page. this is a nice page.
21:44 <+ammar2> legal mumbo jumbo to cover their asses?
21:44 <+ammar2> yup
21:44 < Drainedsoul> lol @ #1
21:44 < Drainedsoul> someone should frame that and hold it up as a standard for the truest thing ever written
21:45 < Thinkofdeath> Odd the first time I clicked it, it went to https://account.mojang.com/me
21:45 < dx> i mean, i like how it's a no-bullshit version of the legal text
21:45 < dx> other sites should do that more often
21:48 <+ammar2> no
21:48 < dx> god dammit. http://dump.dequis.org/1V8VD.png
21:48 < Drainedsoul> I kind of think distancing people from the "legal text" is bad, because it prevents people from becoming outraged at how bizarre the legal system is
21:48 < dx> lol
21:48 < dx> "outraged" more like "going tl;dr"
21:49 < Drainedsoul> which at the very least instills in them some feeling that it's horseshit
21:49 < dx> yeah i guess
21:50 < Drainedsoul> I might be biased though, as I'm Canadian, and another Canadian company headquartered <500km away from me sued me in Federal Court in the U.S., and apparently that was acceptable
21:50 < Drainedsoul> :|
21:50 < dx> but either way, i don't think the awareness of the shittiness of the legal system is what matters here
22:09 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/EG8KXQ
22:09 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] Slowpython 447fd2f - Update DotMinecraft.cs It seemed as though this was meant to be returned. Without the return statement OSX would use the application Data folder, which may not exist.
22:09 < Not-002> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn a8acf1d - Merge pull request #189 from Slowpython/patch-1 Update DotMinecraft.cs
22:11 < dx> >slowpython
22:11 < dx> that name insults my religion
22:11 <+AndrewPH> that's unfortunate
22:14 <+ammar2> dx: how is that high speed interpretation treating you
22:17 < dx> ammar2: gotta go fast
22:19 <+AndrewPH> http://www.meh.ro/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/meh.ro11240.jpg
22:20 <+ammar2> dx: how many sanics does your python go
22:23 < dx> ammar2: can't say a number for certain, but the number of sanics increases at factorial rates
23:48 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±5] http://git.io/SsYbCQ
23:48 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 1e60a6a - world: Allow sending packets to watchers of a chunk
23:48 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 4a0edbe - world: send block changes to other clients
--- Day changed mer. sept. 25 2013
04:22 < Ghoul_> hmm
04:22 < Ghoul_> I'm a little confused
04:22 < Ghoul_> minecraft is throwing a NullPointerException back at me after 0xFD (EncryptionRequest)
05:57 < Drainedsoul> are you sure that your 0xFD is well-formed?
09:21 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/y4jgjQ
09:21 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath f3f26f7 - protocol: allow offline mode for testing with multiple accounts
14:48 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 6 commits to master [+0/-0/±9] http://git.io/ZI629g
14:48 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 42cf0c1 - entity/player: block dig event
14:48 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath eb88eb7 - protocol: fix typo in bool encoding
14:48 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath ad11fc7 - protocol: Fixed offline mode causing players not to have UUIDs
14:48 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath ac73c21 - world: add World.Block
14:48 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 2abad32 - blocks: correct typos
14:48 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 2f0fc2a - entity/player: limit yaw's range
18:22 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±6] http://git.io/_9I0ag
18:22 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 874a0f3 - world,entity: show entities/players to players
18:22 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath c169e59 - blocks: change leaves
--- Log closed jeu. sept. 26 08:14:30 2013
--- Log opened jeu. sept. 26 08:14:38 2013
08:14 -!- Irssi: #mcdevs: Total of 107 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 9 voices, 97 normal]
08:17 -!- Irssi: Join to #mcdevs was synced in 195 secs
17:51 < Thinkofdeath> http://wiki.vg/Pre-release_protocol updated with the snapshot, still need to work out why the 'game mode' field of 0x46 is a float now
17:58 <+ammar2> oh god what
18:01 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±6] http://git.io/cCSdFA
18:01 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath b020580 - /: Store a list of all players
18:01 < Not-001> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 720eba0 - protocol: update to 13w39a
18:29 < Thinkofdeath> Seems to do something with the sky colour
18:30 < dx> better than something like "slightly creative, but mostly survival"
18:30 < Thinkofdeath> lol
18:33 < Thinkofdeath> Maybe not just sky colour http://i.imgur.com/6ySHh2S.png 
19:30 <+ammar2> Thinkofdeath: wow, what an edgy font
19:51 < winny> reminds me of q1 or q2's font
19:52 < winny> yeah, that's q1's isn't it
19:53 < winny> those textures look like the lovecraftian world
19:56  * winny likes where Thinkofdeath is going
20:03 < Thinkofdeath> ammar2: Its the font from Quake 1
20:04 < Thinkofdeath> winny: http://i.imgur.com/IirTA3c.jpg
20:04 < winny> oh man, that's great
20:04 < winny> can i grab your texture pack?
20:05 < Thinkofdeath> winny: It doesn't look good for normal playing http://i.imgur.com/8E98NaN.jpg 
20:05 < winny> ok
--- Day changed ven. sept. 27 2013
00:05 < superjoe> oh snap, mappum open sourced his server
00:05 < superjoe> https://github.com/mappum/redstone
00:07 < superjoe> too bad it's in coffee-script
00:22 < eddyb> superjoe: people should start switching to ES6 already :P
00:22 < superjoe> it's not released yet, is it?
00:23 < eddyb> it's not a thing that gets released, sillies (you're the thousand person I hear this from)
00:23 < eddyb> it's like C++11
00:23 < eddyb> implementation and usage are complementary
00:23 < superjoe> there is a concept of completeness though
00:23 < superjoe> or finalization
00:24 < eddyb> that's per-feature
00:24 < superjoe> but I agree. with a node project you are in control of the executable, so if you want es6 all you have to do is pass --harmony to node
00:24 < eddyb> not only that
00:24 < eddyb> traceur-compiler can already do almost everything in the latest drafts (and a few other things, like async functions - which have uncertain futures)
00:25 < eddyb> it could probably be better, but since I bugged the team (and helped a little), it can already work pretty nicely with node.js modules and stuff
00:26 < eddyb> and a small bonus is that you can do "await data = fs.readFile('foobar');" or "await setTimeout(0);"
00:26 < superjoe> oh neat
00:26 < superjoe> I like that syntax
00:26 < eddyb> that might actually not end up in ES6 :P
00:27 < eddyb> but generators get you almost there
00:27 < superjoe> how so?
00:27 < eddyb> the details of promises/futures are still being discussed
00:29 < eddyb> superjoe: https://github.com/google/traceur-compiler/issues/267
00:29 < eddyb> there are already libraries for doing this with only generator support
00:30 < eddyb> superjoe: ok, found it: https://github.com/google/traceur-compiler/tree/master/test/feature that's what I like to use as syntax examples
00:32 < eddyb> and most of that has been around for one or two years
00:35 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] mappum pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±3] http://git.io/JjJvEQ
00:35 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] mappum 5e75cdf - Updated protocol version to support 1.6.4
00:43 < mappum> How do I add my project to the bot?
00:44 < SinZ> n.tkte.ch
00:45 < superjoe> oh hey mappum 
00:45 < superjoe> I see you've open sourced your server
00:46 < mappum> yeah, i just had the code sitting there and thought maybe i might as well
00:46 < mappum> if other people can see it, it might push me to update it
00:47 < mappum> SinZ: cool, thanks
01:09 < Not-001> [node-minecraft-protocol] mappum tagged 5e75cdf as 0.11.6 http://git.io/s_11RQ
02:00 < Ghoul_> :(
02:00 < Ghoul_> verification bytes don't match
02:00 < Ghoul_> now i have to debug encryption which I have no idea how to do
02:41 < Ghoul_> awww hell yes
08:40 <+Prf_Jakob> TkTech: http://www.pcgamesn.com/eve/eve-rubicon-coming-november-19th
08:44 < mappum> Prf_Jakob: <3 eve
21:42 < dividuum> anyone has an idea what packets are missing if a spawned player slowly falls towards the floor?
21:43 < mappum> dividuum: the chunk data for the chunk the player is in
21:43 < dividuum> hm. strange. i'll to check that. thanks
21:45 < dividuum> found the error. i was accidentally sending a second login packet.
--- Day changed sam. sept. 28 2013
00:28 < Ghoul__> anyone know how minecraft floats are supposed to be written in the packets?
00:28 < Ghoul__> I can't find any documentation on how to encode floats/doubles
00:33 < Ghoul__> nevermind, found an implementation
00:43 < mapppum> Ghoul__: it should just be standard, but big-endian
00:55 < Ghoul__> hmm
00:55 < Ghoul__> turns out I think my encryption is wrong. :(
00:56 < Ghoul__> I was sending the correct things but the client keeps giving random incorrect packet ID stuff, but the fact that its random and my code is all constants makes me think AES is busted on my end
03:48 < Drainedsoul> I've seen encryption issues like that
03:49 < Drainedsoul> I'd check to make sure you don't have unsynchronized access to the encryptor
03:49 < Drainedsoul> another possibility is that access to the encryptor is synchronized, but between encryption and sending there's no synchronization, so it's possible for packets to be recieved in a different order than they were encrypted
03:49 < Drainedsoul> obviously not going to work out...
15:23 < Thinkofdeath> The protocol encryption was added to prevent man in the middle attacks right?
15:27 < barneygale> Thinkofdeath: yeah
15:27 < Thinkofdeath> barneygale: Looks like I can mitm in the snapshot
15:28 < barneygale> Oh really? details?
15:29 < Thinkofdeath> barneygale: http://wiki.vg/Protocol_Encryption#Authentication server id is no longer a sha1 hash, its just the serverID sent in 0xFD
15:30 < barneygale> wait, really?
15:30 < Thinkofdeath> yep
15:30 < barneygale> are you sure?
15:30 < barneygale> that would definitely break it
15:30 < Thinkofdeath> Tested it
15:31 < Thinkofdeath> https://gist.github.com/thinkofdeath/d0fa2997886182b6a5ba Adds MITM to every chat message sent by the client
15:31 < Thinkofdeath> Dinnerbone: ^
15:32 < Thinkofdeath> Its a bit messy
15:37 < Drainedsoul> is it wrong that I think my C++ code is easier to read than that? ._.
15:37 < Thinkofdeath> :P
15:43 < Thinkofdeath> It also effect Spigot with the snapshot-protocol turned on
15:43 < Drainedsoul> I don't understand how someone does that, did they rewrite the authentication/encryption code and just forget to hash the server ID string
15:43 < Drainedsoul> like some bugs you see and you're like oh yeah someone totally did this by accident
15:43 < Drainedsoul> but others...
15:44 < iBotPeaches> its to make sure we are awake and protecting
15:44 < Drainedsoul> yeah they're testing the ancient order of #mcdevs, founded to safeguard the security of the Minecraft protocol
15:44 < Thinkofdeath> They moved it into a library
15:44 < Drainedsoul> to make sure we're still protecting mankind from man in the middle Minecraft attacks
15:45 < Thinkofdeath> Is it md_5 and ammar2 who are spigot devs?
15:45 < Thinkofdeath> They might want to disable snapshot-protocol for now
16:25 <+ammar2> Thinkofdeath: ...they seriously made the serverid static?
23:48 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 3 commits to master [+0/-0/±3] http://git.io/2MM5tA
23:48 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 269b20f - entity/player: Fix possible case where the reading goroutine doesn't close
23:48 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 2497b65 - entity/player: Move packet writing into its own goroutine
23:48 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 911932d - /: Move chat onto its own goroutine
--- Day changed dim. sept. 29 2013
01:16 <+md_5> Thinkofdeath poke
01:18 <+md_5> Thinkofdeath ammar2 barneygale  - I'm confused, the serverId is only used in the mc.net auth, not encryption
01:18 <+md_5> the encryption is still the secret shared key
01:23 <+md_5> I see now
01:24 <+md_5> lets just remove encryption :c who cares about mitm
01:24  * barneygale lures a mindcracker to his server
01:24 < barneygale> muahahaha
01:24 < dexter0> NSA gonna snoop on your minecrafts.
01:26  * dexter0 wonders if they've figured out how to snoop on MC traffic.
01:27 < dav1d> I bet they have
01:27 < dav1d> I don't often share sensitive information, but when I do, I do it over minecraft
01:27 < dav1d> so definitly makes sense if NSA infiltrates minecraft traffic
--- Day changed lun. sept. 30 2013
03:04 < Drainedsoul> Can someone explain the vagaries of Notifico to me?
03:44 < Not-003> [bravo] MostAwesomeDude pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-0/±2] http://git.io/YitU2w
03:44 < Not-003> [bravo] Corbin Simpson 8602bab - beta/protocol, beta/structures: Expand Settings and use it for 0xca. Fixes #393.
05:33 < Not-003> [fCraft] fragmer * r2216 8 files : Assorted code cleanup; added two missing names to CpeExtension enum.
05:50 < Not-003> [fCraft] fragmer * r2217 5 files : Added "womid" to list of reserved command names. Changed generated XML documentation file's extension to lowercase. Cleaned up Heartbeat, Vector3I, and Position classes a bit.
09:10 < Not-003> [fCraft] fragmer * r2218 2 files : Fixed inaccuracies in Noise.FindThreshold, and greatly improved documentation coverage in Noise class.
09:46 < Not-003> [fCraft] fragmer * r2219 9 files : Various annotation and comment improvements, notably in IRCCommands.
10:08 < Not-003> [fCraft] fragmer * r2220 7 files : Added autocompletion to /commands category names, and more code cleanup.
10:21 < Not-003> [fCraft] fragmer * r2221 5 files : Got rid of some more legacy code, for pre-0.600 compatibility. It's been almost 2 years, hopefully everyone has upgraded.
11:03 < shoghicp> Hi
11:06 < Drainedsoul> hello
19:08 < TkTech> ... I *think* this is spam? http://wiki.vg/User:Sadfug4w
19:14 <+Prf_Jakob> I think you are right
19:14 < shoghicp> I couldn't find anything around there
19:14 < shoghicp> the text seems "unique"
19:14 < shoghicp> but the "&#25991" part...
19:16 < shoghicp> the text is really written as "&#20462;&#29702;..."
19:16 < shoghicp> except the title
19:16 < TkTech> Dedication, that is.
19:16 < TkTech> And poof it goes.
19:17 < shoghicp> there are some "," instead of ";", or even two ";"
19:17 < shoghicp> weird xD
21:09 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 3 commits to master [+3/-0/±7] http://git.io/-Z_nnQ
21:09 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath d11e4f0 - entity: Improvements with how spawning is handled
21:09 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath a39c939 - entity/player: add SendMessage method
21:09 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 1dd7b2e - command: add a basic command system, still needs improvements
--- Day changed mar. oct. 01 2013
01:14 < Drainedsoul> Is anyone able to help me understand Notifico?
01:16 < iBotPeaches> Drainedsoul: add hook, add that hook into github web api hooks, add the channels. done
01:19 < iBotPeaches> assuming project on github (project -> settings -> service hooks -> WebHook URLs)
01:31 < Not-003> [MCPP] RobertLeahy pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±3] http://git.io/nt_kQQ
01:31 < Not-003> [MCPP] RobertLeahy 15c37ba - World Column Storage Change ColumnContainer objects are now managed by a std::unique_ptr rather than a SmartPointer. Interest/player counts prevent pointers from being invalidated while they're in use, and therefore the overhead of a reference counting object is unnecessary.
01:31 < Drainedsoul> iBotPeaches: Thanks!
14:34 <+ammar2> "Rewriting the network code in Minecraft today. Using Netty, and may drastically change the protocol for some nice improvements." -Dinnerbro
14:36 < barneygale> abandon ship!
14:40 < t89> im sure this will go well ammar2 
14:40 < dx> ammar2: am i being trolled
14:40 <+ammar2> maybe
15:12 < winny> i hope they switch to udp
15:13 < zutto> winny: but that would actually be an improvement
15:13 < zutto> we cant accept that
15:14 < winny> lol, a dreamer must dream :3
15:20 < eddyb> there was a debate, either with grm or DB...
15:21 < eddyb> they won't change to UDP because they would end up reimplementing most of the TCP on top of UDP
15:21 < winny> lol unfortunately I fear for the same type of ridiculous design
15:21 < eddyb> now, with encryption... it's even less likely
15:23 < eddyb> WoW has a nice protocol: packet type and size in the header, and a certain bit in the size indicates that it's a larger size (kinda like utf8 multibyte encodings). but once you parse the header, you don't need to care about the contents, if you don't want to
15:24 < eddyb> I think the opensource WoW servers I've seen actually put the received packets in a queue, and parsing could be done even in another thread
15:25 < eddyb> (I guess it's the basic sane packet design, not that impressive)
15:25 < Flemmard> well yeah generally *every* protocol have this kind of thing, type of packet, size of packet, then the data
15:25 < jast> nah, most text-based ones don't
15:26 < barneygale> Dinnerbro: Sorry, it's pretty drastic in some aspects. You're getting the length header, for example.
15:26 < barneygale> length header!
15:26 < barneygale> sweet zombie jesus!
15:28 < SinZ> will be interesting to see the snapshot this week
17:25 < dx> "Most packets themselves aren't going to change much but the handshaking and ping procedure is being redone" - dinnerbro
17:25 < dx> i wonder if this is a "fuck backwards compatibility of ping packets" or not
17:26 < dx> they seemed to hate that
17:26 < dx> well, the code, not the backwards compatibility itself
17:30 < Dinnerbone> I'm going to try to keep back compat with old ping but that's it, and no promises
17:30 < TkTech> I don't think anyone here will complain if you break it.
17:30 < Dinnerbone> Users will.
17:30 < TkTech> Users are silly things.
17:30 < Dinnerbone> I agree
17:33 < dx> yeah, reading the messages dinnerbro replied to, he seems to get lots of dumb messages
17:35 < dx> my favorite one is "man, you really need to get that api to be a thing, so we don't have this crap every update"
17:37 < TkTech> I...what?
17:38 < TkTech> API at what level? That complaint kinda makes sense from the perspective of a modder.
17:39 < jast> it's APIs all the way down, didn't you know
17:44 < dx> TkTech: kinda, but it's replying to the message about refactoring networking code. it's just very short sighted to refer to that as "this crap".
17:45 < jast> when talking about "this crap", the guy was probably talking about his own face
17:45 < dx> lol
17:52 < dx> Dinnerbone: UTF-8?
17:54 < SinZ> this rewrite is something we have been wanting since beta came out
17:54 < SinZ> maybe earlier, but meh
17:55 < dx> yeah, i think we're not expressing our excitement enough
17:55 < dx> so here it is: FUCK YEAH
17:55 < SinZ> Also, this might mean the y height might not be 3 different data types
17:55 < shoghicp> wooo
17:55  * shoghicp hopes that extends to MCPE too
17:56 < dx> shoghicp: what does? isn't the mcpe protocol completely different?
17:56 < shoghicp> The packet structure is really similar
17:57 < shoghicp> inside the raknet packets
17:57 < dx> oh i see
17:57 < shoghicp> also... Y can be an int, short, ubyte and byte
17:57 < SinZ> just went through the protocol, Y currently has 5 different data types
17:57 < shoghicp> (and float)
17:57 < SinZ> byte, short, int, double, float
17:58 < shoghicp> see? they are similar
17:59 < SinZ> ranging from 1-4 bytes
17:59 < dx> you've got ubytes though
17:59 < dx> in java, "ubyte" is a typo
17:59 < shoghicp> yep, but they are going to change that
17:59 < shoghicp> also, I found a bug with the "short"
18:00 < shoghicp> it should be a byte or a int
18:00 < shoghicp> some kind of compiler optimization
18:00 < dx> interesting
18:00 < shoghicp> yep
18:00 < shoghicp> johan said that was due to not being explicitly defined there
18:09 < barneygale> Dinnerbone: while you're doing net things, I /promise you/ I'll buy you a pint of reasonably priced alcohol if you take a look at https://mojang.atlassian.net/browse/MC-10984 - It's a 2-line fix but would make my life a whole bunch easier
18:13 < TkTech> From the /query wiki page, "A simple way to parse the payload is to ignore the first 11 bytes, and then split the response around the token \x00\x01player_\x00\x00. At the very end there's an extra null byte"
18:14 < TkTech> I'm inclined to remove this as it promotes bad practice and is definitely not what you want to do.
18:15 < Dinnerbone> barneygale: fixed
18:15  * Dinnerbone goes home
18:15 < barneygale> Dinnerbone: thankyouthankyouthankyou
18:16 < dx> whoa.
18:17 < dx> dinnerbro is such a bro
18:18 < dx> barneygale: so what are you going to buy him?
18:19 < barneygale> guess it depends if dinnerbro is in london any time soon
18:19 < barneygale> or I suppose I could get some kind of spirit and mail it over
18:19 < Grum> send it to the office so i can have some toO!
18:20 < barneygale> To sweden? D:
18:20 < Grum> yes =D
18:20 < barneygale> I shall look into it :D
18:20 < SinZ> you did promise after all
18:21 < TkTech> Keep in mind that if you don't send the booze, you'll crush Dinner's faith in humanity, leaving him in a chronic state of unproductive depression and nothing will ever get fixed again.
18:21 < barneygale> Normally when one says "I'll buy you a pint" they mean in-person, but I can arrange something
18:22 < Grum> <dx> "Most packets themselves aren't going to change much but the handshaking and ping procedure is being redone" - dinnerbro <-- except for half of their ids
18:22 < edk> Organize some kind of meetup thing so I can buy him one as well
18:22 < Grum> <dx> Dinnerbone: UTF-8? <-- yes
18:23 < Grum> edk: minecon? ;D
18:23 < edk> Grum: I don't think my current net worth would cover a minecon ticket + flight to anywhere
18:24 < edk> I might have to sell my body
18:24 < SinZ> Grum: organise the next Minecon outside edk's house
18:24 < umby24> same, edk. xD
18:24 < SinZ> Grum: Mojang should come to PAX Aus next year, it was a fun time this year
18:31 < dexter0> Will anyone here (aside from the Mojang folks) be at minecon?
18:34 < Grum> [15:25:38] <Flemmard> well yeah generally *every* protocol have this kind of thing, type of packet, size of packet, then the data <-- we'll most likely flip it, size, type, data
18:40 < dx> 13:22 < Grum> <dx> Dinnerbro: UTF-8? <-- yes <-- <3
18:43 < Grum> tbh it makes more sense to do: size, type, data
19:01 < jast> with most packet-based protocols it makes no difference because usually endpoints will read the complete packet header in one go
19:02 < jast> and often the size value excludes the header
19:05 <+pdelvo> I cant understand that there are people on twitter complaining about the protocol changes
19:05 < Grum> yeah but the header (type) will not be constant size :)
19:05 < Grum> pdelvo: people always complain
19:06 <+pdelvo> they do :(
19:07 < Grum> ohnoes change is bad! ... well .. then do not play minecraft, go play something that makes you pay for extra content/changes/features
19:08 < jast> sure, if you have a variable-size header, putting the size first makes some amount of sense :)
19:08 < Grum> varints ftw =)
19:08 < Grum> very future compatible ;)
19:09 < jast> you know what's even more future-compatible? ASN.1
19:09 < jast> one charming side effect is that ASN.1 will DEVOUR YOUR SOUL
19:09 < Grum> good tradeoff
19:12 <+Amaranth> I seem to remember something about ASN.1 being turing complete
19:12 < jast> nah
19:13 < jast> though you could, of course, represent ASTs in ASN.1
19:13 <+sadimusi> with a varint as the packet id it will be pretty hard to keep backwards compatibility for pinging
19:14 <+sadimusi> having the size first makes it even harder
19:14 < SinZ> just have a legacy handler that is only active on login would do the job
19:15 <+sadimusi> that's pretty hacky but probably the only way
19:15 < SinZ> can be removed in future versions when backwards compatibility doesn't mean much anymore
19:15 <+Amaranth> Or just no
19:43 < TkTech> Grum: +1 for uint32_t length -> uint8_t packet_id, -> uint_8_t[] data.
19:44 < TkTech> Grum: Makes it simple to have an outgoing queue of packets where your write op only needs to prepend the length without any other work.
19:46 < TkTech> I'm curious, but I've been out of the loop for a long time.
19:46 < TkTech> sadimusi: Why does backwards compatibility matter here?
19:47 < TkTech> My opinion would be to break away and move on.
19:56 < Grum> TkTech: VarInt length, VarInt packetId, byte[] data
19:57 < TkTech> Grum: ~_~ VarInt? Custom type or provided by some library?
19:57 < Grum> quite 'standard' thing where you drop the msb of each byte to indicate 'another one coming'
19:58 < Grum> so you get 7 bits per byte of 'data'
19:58 < Grum> just a variable-length int
19:59 < TkTech> I'm assuming you guys actually profiled this and it's a wortwhile optimization?
20:00 < Grum> profiled how?
20:00 < TkTech> Bandwith, TCP latency on Windows, BSD/OS X and Linux 2.6+ with and without nagles.
20:00 < Grum> euuh?
20:01 < Dinnerbone> It's virtually no more expensive than normally writing out an int of any type to a stream, except that it only takes 1/2/3/4/whatever bytes instead of a constant 16 bytes
20:01 < Grum> yeah
20:01 < Grum> it'll just be shorter often
20:01 < Grum> 4 bytes
20:01 < TkTech> Right, there's no other savings.
20:01 < Dinnerbone> Yes but there's no other cost neither
20:02 < Grum> to recompose 4 bytes into an int you do: a << 24 | b << 16 | c << 8 | d ...
20:02 < Dinnerbone> 0 cost some gain, makes it worth the incredibly small effort to implement in my view
20:02 < Grum> vs: a & 0x7F << 21 | b & 0x7F << 14 | c & 0x7F < 7 | d & 0x7F
20:03 < Grum> sure, we can only transfer 28 bits per 4 bytes
20:04 < TkTech> I understand the reasoning, and I understand the how, wasn't really my question.
20:04 < Grum> but seeing we mostly stay under 2^21 (we rarely go over 2^16 actually)
20:04 < Grum> almost all our sizes will be 1-2 bytes vs 'strict 4' for uin32
20:04 < Grum> +t
20:05 < dx> so everything will be a ``VarInt''?
20:05 < Dinnerbone> Not everything
20:05 < Grum> where we can use it
20:05 < TkTech> Reworded, *Does sending "01 00 00000001" vs "00000001 00 00000001" happen to improve latency when naggle is disabled?
20:05 < Grum> or need to
20:05 < Dinnerbone> But everywhere it's smart to use
20:05 < Grum> TkTech: who cares for latency with nagle?
20:05 < Grum> not sure how it would even influence it
20:06 < Grum> nagle just provides local buffering right?
20:06 < TkTech> Are you guys explicitly disabling it?
20:06 < Grum> as we are now
20:07 < Grum> every thing that cares for latency does
20:07 < Grum> we can argue we do not care because we use TCP but lets put that aside ;)
20:08 < dx> so why is this varint thing worth doing?
20:08 < Grum> saves space?
20:08 < TkTech> When your packets are smaller, and spammy (like 00), having nagles enabled will negatively affect latency.
20:08 < Grum> you can send an intacross in less than 4 bytes?
20:09 < TkTech> The packet is too small to clear the buffer right away.
20:09 < dx> okay
20:09 < Grum> we're still supporting a buffered connection
20:09 < Grum> having nagles enabled will negatively affect your latency *always*
20:09 < Grum> unless you fill the buffer it expects every single time perfectly
20:10 < Grum> s/supporting/sporting
20:11 < barneygale> Would using an int32 for packet id be a significant bandwidth drain? It seems to me that it would be the best solution, provided it's not an unreasonable impact on bandwidth
20:11 < Grum> i dont see why we would if we have varints
20:11  * barneygale googles varints
20:11 < TkTech> The VarInts just seem like an unnecessary pre-mature optimization.
20:12 < barneygale> I assume they work something like UTF? If so I agree with Tk
20:12 < TkTech> Which I habitually shy away from without supporting profiling showing an advantage.
20:12 < Grum> TkTech: its more like a future-flexibility
20:13 < barneygale> right, but you need to define where your future ends. Surely 4 bytes would be sufficient, and if it's not a big deal bandwidth-wise, why complicate things?
20:13 < Grum> why would it complicate any things?
20:14 < TkTech> Grum: If the protocol grows to the point where you have more than 255 packet types, or excessively sends packets (other than map data) that require more than an int16 for length something is wrong.
20:14 < Grum> its not just that TkTech
20:14 < TkTech> Actually, I may be misunderstanding.
20:14 < Grum> we can actually simple stop using old ids
20:14 < Grum> and skip to a new one
20:14 < TkTech> Why? You have a version field in the handshake.
20:15 < barneygale> Grum: notch used a 5bit/3bit thing for entity metadata. It's not massively complicated either, but it still trips up a significant portion of people who have written code for it over the years
20:15 < Grum> i'm not sure i have to care for people doing things they cannot do
20:15 < TkTech> barneygale: That's not an excuse Mojang should or would care about.
20:15 < Grum> we'll document it
20:15 < Grum> we might even use protobufs when we resign the protocol in the future
20:16 < dx> lol "resign"
20:16 < Grum> hehe
20:16 < barneygale> Grum: TkTech, fair enough
20:16 < Grum> freudian slip!
20:16 < dx> definitely.
20:16 < Grum> +de;)
20:17 < barneygale> I suppose using varints for packet length makes a reasonable amount of sense, and if there, why not also use it for ID?
20:17 < Grum> yup
20:18 < Grum> doesn't mean we'll be using 'it for all the things'
20:18 < dx> i'm still not sure if i like it.
20:19 < dx> would love to see some comparisons / profiling of bandwidth usage
20:19 < Grum> i'm sure i do not care if you like it :)
20:19 < dx> i knew you would reply with that
20:19 < Grum> on average it should save bandwidth
20:19 < Grum> the math is rather siple
20:19 < Grum> *simple
20:19 < dx> yeah, but like tktech said, it could be a premature optimization too
20:19 < Grum> its not
20:20 < Grum> its meant as a 'future flexibility'
20:20 < Grum> means we can grow from the 'byte' as packet-id
20:20 < Grum> and have graceful protocol changes where every packetid is always handled unique if we'd care to
20:21 < barneygale> Grum: I think you or Dinnerbone mentioned keeping server list ping compatible with past versions. Anything you can reveal on how you're doing that?
20:21 <+ammar2> god that would be so hacky
20:21 < barneygale> well exactly
20:21 < barneygale> the 0xFA stuff is already somewhat hacky, though a welcome change nonetheless
20:21 <+ammar2> just break everything and get it all over in one swoop :P
20:21 < Dinnerbone> I said that I would *try*
20:22 < Dinnerbone> But it's super low priority
20:22 < Dinnerbone> And that it's not a guarantee
20:22 < Dinnerbone> And that it would be restricted to ping only
20:22 < barneygale> OK, just wondering
20:22 < Grum> barneygale: we can specialcase the ids
20:22 < Grum> but we rather not
20:22 < barneygale> I don't really mind if it's incompatible
20:22 < Grum> we rather just say fuck it
20:22 < dx> just consider pings as a different protocol
20:22 < Grum> barneygale: you are again not representative for the 12m people ;()
20:22 < dx> there's no reason it should be part of the same one, and accept the same kind of packets
20:22 < barneygale> Grum: I said I /don't/ mind
20:22 < TkTech> Grum: You don't need to care about the 12m people, push a launcher and client update and you're dandy.
20:22 < Grum> ;D
20:22 < barneygale> keep it compatible or don't, it doesn't bother me :)
20:22 < TkTech> Grum: It's the service hosters and devs that will care.
20:23 < Dinnerbone> I can make the ping just simply attempt the old method if the new one didn't work
20:23 < Grum> TkTech: awesome not! ;D
20:23 < Grum> Dinnerbone: the issue is the possible spam @ new server
20:23 < Grum> but we'll see
20:23 < Grum> we can probably catch that
20:23 <+ammar2> you don't even need to ping the servers properly, just say "Outdated server" if you can establish a tcp socket and the server sends you a 0xff for your 0xfe
20:23 < TkTech> Does it matter? That should be two or so context switches and a very early termination
20:24 < dx> ammar2: but pinging from 1.6 client to 1.7 server matters too
20:24 < Grum> TkTech: if every packet is prefixed with the length and you just connect with 'shit' ... everything will fall apart
20:24 <+ammar2> dx: woops right, oh well
20:24 <+ammar2> screw it
20:25 < dx> let's just ignore the hackiness in the pings, it can't be helped :(
20:25 < Grum> we can see if we can make it working
20:25 < Grum> i seriously doubt it
20:25 < TkTech> Grum: Sure, and you guys need to handle that case, there's nothing you can do to get around that.
20:25 <+ammar2> dx: well, you could just throw the new method and the old server should drop you for invalid packet id
20:25 < Grum> TkTech: you cant
20:25 < TkTech> Then don't, the path of infinite backwards compatibility is not a fun one.
20:25 < Grum> or we might not be able to
20:25 < barneygale> FWIW, I always thought (packet id, len(data), data) made more sense than (len(packet), packet id, data)
20:25 < Grum> or it might not be worthwhile
20:25 < Grum> barneygale: its not
20:26 < TkTech> Grum: How so? Read the length, read the next VarInt (packetId), invalid, dump without reading data[].
20:26 < Grum> TkTech: right, so what is the 'ping-packet'id?
20:26 < TkTech> barneygale: Think about a threaded server.
20:26 < TkTech> barneygale: A simple model which builds the packet and puts it on a stack to write out.
20:27 < TkTech> barneygale: The thread that's writing can just write(len(buffer)) + write(buffer)
20:27 < barneygale> That's true
20:27 < dx> also, i'm not sure if i understood it right, what's the maximum size in bytes of a varint field?
20:27 < barneygale> I guess I'm coming from it too much from a client perspective
20:27 <+ammar2> dx: theoretically infinite
20:27 < Grum> dx: infinite
20:27 < dx> perfect, thanks.
20:28 < Grum> we'll not support that though
20:28  * barneygale is excited for these changes
20:28 < TkTech> barneygale: Even then, your thread, coroutine, or what not doing the reading can read the length, put it on the stack, and keep at it without caring about the packet_id.
20:28 < Grum> TkTech: what is the packetid for the current 'request ping data' ?
20:28 < SinZ> 254
20:28 < barneygale> 0xFE
20:28 <+pdelvo> 0xFE
20:28 < Grum> and that actualyl causes a big problem already
20:28 < Grum> the msb is set :P
20:28 < barneygale> Yes, heh
20:29 < barneygale> next byte is 01
20:29 < dx> fun
20:29 < Grum> so we'll be reading: FE bytes after
20:29 < Grum> E_NO_AVAIL
20:29 < Grum> however
20:30 <+pdelvo> I would just dont have any backward compatibility to 1.6 and then in the new protocol have the version in the new server ping request packet to be more flexible in the future
20:30 < Grum> we can make a specialcase, to initiate a fallback if the *FIRST* packet happens to has the first byte or size set at a certain value
20:32 < TkTech> That's never a good idea.
20:32 < Grum> i know
20:33 < Grum> so its very likely we will simply accept the minor incompatibility (old clients not getting sane responses from new servers)
20:34 < barneygale> If you read FE 01 as a length, then FA 00 as packet ID, you get a Packet #122. At that point you could put in a special case to not read any further..
20:34 < barneygale> I suppose?
20:34 < barneygale> I don't think there's any non-hacky way to make it backward-compatible
20:35 < Grum> barneygale: no, after FE 01 we'll wait for that amount of bytes
20:35 < Grum> if we do nto get it, we break the connection
20:36 < Grum> You'll just get a read-timeout-error
20:37 < TkTech> Which the client already handles
20:37 < TkTech> *launcher
20:38 < Grum> not really?
20:38 < Grum> well
20:38 < Grum> this would just be rather ungraceful
20:39 < TkTech> Sure it does, the launcher handles timeouts during the server list ping just fine?
20:39 < Grum> the launcher has nothing to do with this
20:41 < TkTech> Yeah, I was right the first time. *Client. Not sure why I "corrected" that.
20:41 < Grum> yeah the client 'handles' it but it takes 30 seconds
20:44 < Grum> it should say: "1.7" :p
20:44 < Grum> btw obviously we'll reset the protocol version back to 0
20:44 < Grum> just for funsies ;)
20:44 < TkTech> You're dead to me.
20:44 < Grum> <3!
20:45 < Grum> not sure why that is a problem
20:45 < TkTech> I remember when Notch rolled it back at least 5 times in two weeks.
20:45 < Grum> its almost the same as resetting version numbers when doing alpha -> beta
20:45 < TkTech> Screws with tools and sites that track versions automatically.
20:45 < Grum> pfft
20:45 < Grum> they deal with more shit
20:45 < TkTech> Especially the simple check of >=
20:46 < TkTech> sadimusi: ^- Heads up
20:46 < Grum> well, people will learn!
20:46 < SinZ> just have ~80 versions between now and release so it still works
20:46 < SinZ> ^.^
20:46 < Grum> nah
20:47 < Grum> don't forget, we can now actually skip packets we do not understand :p
20:47 < SinZ> yay
20:47 < SinZ> does that mean modders just adding new packets wont cause derps
20:47 <+pdelvo> thats like school
20:47 < Grum> we wont ofc
20:47 < Grum> we'll fail on them
20:47 < Grum> HARD
20:47 < Grum> break the connection
20:48 < TkTech> SinZ: That's a bad idea.
20:48 < SinZ> heh
20:48 < Grum> we have to
20:48 < Grum> else you can trivially ddos a server
20:48 < Dinnerbone> Modders adding new packets should be using the plugin channel packet
20:48 < SinZ> should but some modders are idiots
20:49 < SinZ> hell, Forge doesn't even hook into the function called getPlugins() for query support
20:51 < barneygale> Dinnerbone: Grum: one final idea. Assign a new 1-byte packet to the /old protocol/, e.g. 0xFA, meaning "switch to new protocol". When a client connects to a 1.7 server, read 1 byte. If you get 0xFA, switch to the new length-prefixed protocol. if you get 0xFE, send an old-style server ping response. If you get anything else, send an old-style kick("Outdated client!")
20:51 < barneygale> err, not 0xFA. 0xF0
20:51 < barneygale> FA is taken ;D
20:52 < barneygale> And once everything prior to 1.7 is forgotten, 0xF0 essentially becomes your magic byte
20:52 < barneygale> I guess it would be a "connection header"
20:52 < Grum> barneygale: no
20:52 < Grum> because we cannot ever get away from that
20:53 < barneygale> is it such a terrible thing to have to get away from?
20:53 < Grum> yes?
20:53 < Grum> lets make new code to instantly introduce legacy in it
20:53 < TkTech> Grum: Ah, the Microsoft Approach™.
20:54 < barneygale> IMO it's the least intrusive way to maintain legacy support
20:54 < TkTech> Who cares? Death to legacy.
20:54 < barneygale> Well, whatever
20:54 < Grum> barneygale: i dont care for legacy support
20:54 < Grum> it matters for ONE whole version
20:54 < Grum> after that no-one cares
20:54 < TkTech> At some point you need to introduce breaking changes, otherwise you're stuck spending half your time working on backwards compatibilty.
20:54 < Grum> no-one cares for 1.3, 1.4 anymore
20:54 < barneygale> I understand that
20:54 < Grum> the second 1.7 comes out people stop caring for 1.5
20:55 < Grum> and if they dont, well, no whines if you do not want to upgrade
20:55 < barneygale> Alright
20:55 < Grum> in the not too far future people won't be able to play online using old versions
20:56 < Grum> because our session server will just accept new auth
20:56 < Grum> skins will eventually go away too from where they are now
20:56 < barneygale> I'm totally fine with that. My rationale is that if you /did/ have any inclination to maintain legacy support, a 1-byte header once at the beginning of a connection would be a small price to pay.
20:56 < Grum> its a high price to pay
20:56 < Grum> its a price you cannot ever get rid off
20:57 < barneygale> That's quite an abstract pricer
20:57 < barneygale> price*
20:57 < Grum> no, its infinitely costly
20:57 < barneygale> or I guess I'm not understanding its significance
20:57 < Grum> fixing it means breaking things
20:57 < Grum> and you carry that with you forever
20:57 < Dinnerbone> There's also the issue of we'd have to go back in time to add that packet to 1.7
20:57 < Dinnerbone> Uh
20:57 < Dinnerbone> 1.6
20:58 < barneygale> Oh, yeah. 1.7 client -> 1.6 server?
20:58 < Grum> we can consider a hacky pipeline element that specialcases this one packet, if its not too much work and pain we cna keep that in for 1-2 versions and then delete it
20:58 < barneygale> That ruins the whole idea, good point Dinnerbone
20:58 < Grum> Dinnerbone: we can just have a 'peek'-channelinboundhandler
20:59 < Grum> that removes itself after the first interaction with data
20:59 < Dinnerbone> I only care about ping, and it's not a priority. Players on 1.7 should see 1.6 servers listed as "1.6", and players on 1.6 should see 1.7 servers listed as "1.7".
20:59 < Dinnerbone> I'll probably make this happen by a fallback on the ping request
20:59 < Grum> well 1.6-> 1.7 server ping is the problem
20:59 < Grum> as it'll send FE01
21:00 < Grum> which for us means: 'read FE bytes of data NOW'
21:00 < Grum> but we can just specialcase it as i jsut said, should be doable
21:00 < Dinnerbone> Yeah
21:00 < Dinnerbone> It really helps that we have the ability to rewing the data now
21:00 < Dinnerbone> Bookmark, try new. Didn't work? Rewind, try old.
21:00 < Dinnerbone> s/rewing/rewind/
21:00 <+ammar2> hmm, with the launcher can't you actually go back to 1.6 and change stuff there
21:01 < Dinnerbone> Mods.
21:01 < Grum> so no ammar2
21:01 < Dinnerbone> We *can* update 1.6.4, but we don't want to. Mods will have to update too, and they can't update like we can
21:01 < barneygale> I really suck at installing mods in the new launcher
21:01  * barneygale is stuck in his ways
21:03 <+ammar2> Grum: maybe add something for small binary patches for future use? I'd like to imagine no mods modify the code used to send 0xfe, and if they do the patch can just be rolled back
21:03 < Grum> ammar2: we have
21:03 < Grum> its called LegacyLauncher :)
21:04 < Grum> its what the old version use, public, source available
21:06 < SinZ> which is what Forge uses iirc
21:13 < Grum> yup
23:01 < Not-003> [fCraft] fragmer * r2222 38 files : Further enhancements in annotation and documentation, notably in Config. Fixed Trie enumerators throwing ArgumentNullException when trying to enumerate an empty trie/subtrie. Color.Parse/Color.GetName/Rank.Parse no longer accept nulls.
--- Day changed mer. oct. 02 2013
00:33 < Blazedd> Oh wow quite a few people are here. Didn't expect this many people to be in this channel.
00:34 < Blazedd> So is mcdevs a collective of developers that make tools or something else? The website was very unclear as to affiliation.
00:35 < Blazedd> I guess the more important question now is the typical "who isn't idle"?
00:35 < Blazedd> (irc)
00:35 < Blazedd> the typical irc question**
00:35 < Paprikachu> it's a channel for minecraft related development
00:36 < Paprikachu> be it clients, server, libraries, whatever
00:36 < Blazedd> Ah, I see. I was kinda trying to find out who was primarily behind mark2, and burger. I know it's open source, but just trying to find out who.
00:41 < dexter0> the burger maintainer is in this channel, no idea about mark2 (never heard of it).
00:56 < Not-003> [fCraft] fragmer * r2223 2 files : Improved documentation in Trie, and added some more assertions.
00:57 < Not-003> [fCraft] fragmer * r2224 2 files : Removed old debugging/profling code from Fill3DDrawOperation
01:16 < barneygale> Blazedd: mark2 is me and edk141
01:17 < barneygale> mcdevs is mainly this channel. there's a website to explain what it is, also a little-used git repo as most people release their code under their own name or organisation
01:17 < barneygale> s/repo/organisation/
01:31 <+sadimusi> TkTech: backwards compatibility matters to me because I have to fetch the status of 30k servers every minute and trying two different methods would slow that down significantly
01:36 < winny> udp udp udp udp udp udp
01:39 <+sadimusi> winny: as you know there exists a (terrible) udp protocol for this purpose, but only about 20% of the servers have it enabled
01:39 < winny> you're referring to query right?
01:39 <+sadimusi> yes
01:40 < winny> idk, it was easy enough to write a tool that can utilize it
01:40 < winny> it's based off the UT query proto so that's why it's broken
01:40 <+sadimusi> I know
01:40 <+AndrewPH> did you miss the part where he said 20% of servers have it enabled
01:40 <+sadimusi> doesn't help me much though
01:42 < winny> i'm out of context -- i was spamming "udp udp udp" because i'm anticipating minecraft.java that utilizes udp for everything and I'd doubt there is a benefit to using the query proto instead a new server ping packet _if_ this udp thing every happens
01:42 < winny> ever happens* even
01:43 <+sadimusi> udp for everything definitely won't happen
01:43 < winny> ok, i'll have to dream harder, haha
04:59 < Not-003> [bravo] MostAwesomeDude pushed 3 commits to master [+0/-0/±6] http://git.io/iUq7JQ
04:59 < Not-003> [bravo] Corbin Simpson 925ed06 - world: PEP 8.
04:59 < Not-003> [bravo] Corbin Simpson 9d3ab1c - world: Start factoring out caching behavior. Now the permanent cache is a separate object which has its own rules. Also added a handful of tests and moved permanent cache initialization into World and out of the Factory. It's a detail of World that nobody else should see. Refs #366.
04:59 < Not-003> [bravo] Corbin Simpson 9676b27 - world: Make enable_chunks() return a Deferred, and test. This test actually shows off some pretty deep codepaths. Refs #366.
05:12 < Not-003> [bravo] MostAwesomeDude pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/ekeVSQ
05:12 < Not-003> [bravo] Corbin Simpson ab0ae69 - utilities/automatic: Only feed acceptable blocks to automatons. This explains quite a bit of the slowness around ``naive_scan`` and why redstone was causing so many problems!
05:18 < Eviltechie> Not-003: help
05:19 <+AndrewPH> users with the name Not-00x are (usually) bots (unless somebody's trying to be a clever girl)
05:19 < Eviltechie> I know, and bots usually respond to a help command
05:22 < umby24> maybe with a command prefix
05:22 < umby24> dunno about with a ping
05:48 < Eviltechie> umby24: Every bot I've seen usually takes direct commands (a ping) or a prefix
05:51 <+AndrewPH> Eviltechie: Notifico is less of a general use bot and is more of a notifications-only bot. I don't think it even responds to anything anybody says in irc
06:04 < TkTech> sadimusi: Wait, you do? What are you doing?
06:04 < TkTech> sadimusi: Server list?
06:06 < dx> nice lag
06:10 < umby24> i've seen maybe 2 that take "direct" commands (their name first)
06:10 <+AndrewPH> umby24: voxelhead does (on esper), I forgot what it is. eggdrop bot maybe. Also, anything based on supy usually.
06:11 < umby24> that might have been one of the two
06:11 < dx> my irc bot used to work like that too. rip my irc bot
06:11 < umby24> the one I made, Yoshi2's, and Sinz' all take a command prefix
06:11 < Eviltechie> rbot, skybot
06:12 < Eviltechie> The chanserv on some networks I am on also takes direct commands
06:12 < Eviltechie> actually, no it dosen't
06:17 < umby24> we just made our own bots sooo meh
06:27 < Not-003> [fCraft] fragmer * r2225 10 files : More cleanup here and there, notably in PerlinNoise and Server classes.
12:16 <+sadimusi> TkTech: I operate http://minecraftservers.org
12:16 <+sadimusi> TkTech: you even recommended me for the job
12:23 < Not-003> [mc4p] sadimusi pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/n656Bw
12:23 < Not-003> [mc4p] Florian Wesch 88d389a - fixed parsing of 0xcf
12:23 < Not-003> [mc4p] Simon Marti 5ca9fe5 - Merge pull request #2 from dividuum/master
12:33 < dividuum> sadimusi, got a second? I'm wondering if the way messages are version in mc4p can be improved somehow
12:34 < dividuum> because right now, if i create a new protocol version 78, it inherits all message types in the scope while defining it
12:34 < dividuum> so it gets the version 75 NamedSoundEffect, which has the category field
12:35 < dividuum> this field is not included in the 78 version, since it is based on the 74 version. 75 is the snapshop branch...
12:35 < dividuum> so basically i think protocol version should be based on a parent version, inherit it's messages and only add the locally defined messages for that version
14:11 <+sadimusi> dividuum: we could add an optional parent version to the protocol.version method
14:14 < iBotPeaches> sadimusi: some of those server player counts :o
14:14 < iBotPeaches> and I thought 10 was a lot
14:15 <+sadimusi> those are mostly networks running behind bungee or something
14:17 <+sadimusi> dividuum: it's probably best to wait for the refactoring before doing anything
14:40 < dividuum> sadimusi, what refactoring? for the upcoming protocol changes talked about yesterday?
15:00 <+sadimusi> dividuum: yes
--- Day changed jeu. oct. 03 2013
00:50 < Brottweiler> dav1d: you know MCExpertDE?
11:25 < dav1d> Brottweiler: no, waht is that?
12:36 < Brottweiler> dav1d: some german youtuber who played on OCN yesterday, famous apparently
19:21 < Eviltechie> http://dev.minecraft.net/
19:21 < Eviltechie> Gone.
19:22 < Eviltechie> Not that there was much there to begin with, but...
19:24 < dx> never heard of that page
19:25 < dx> what did it have?
19:25 < Eviltechie> It was the blog for all things related to the official api
19:25 < dx> oh
19:25 < dx> meh.
19:25 < Eviltechie> EvilSeph made two posts on it last novemeber I think
19:25 < Eviltechie> And never touched it again.
19:25 < Eviltechie> Now that he just left mojang, it's been removed
19:25 < dx> rip evilseph
19:30 < Morrolan> He left?
19:31 < Eviltechie> https://twitter.com/EvilSeph/status/385537792794959872
19:31 < Morrolan> Heh.
19:34 < Eviltechie> I would speculate that there was a falling out. It wouldn't be the first time that that sort of thing has happened.
19:34 < Morrolan> Who knows. :)
19:35 < Morrolan> (That's a rhetorical question. If you answer with "EvilSeph" I'll slap you. :P)
19:35 < dx> lol
19:37 < dx> last time i heard about him, had some 'personal issues' stopping him from spending much time messing with minecraft.
19:37 <+ammar2> Eviltechie: nice alias, EvilSeph
19:38 < dx> lol
19:53 < billyyjoee> kahrl, you there?
19:54 < kahrl> yes?
19:54 < billyyjoee> Creator of MCPatcher, right?
19:54 < kahrl> nope
19:55 < kahrl> all I made was a chunk fixer back in the pre-anvil days
19:55 < billyyjoee> Your name has one letter difference. The creator of MCPatcher is named Kahr.
19:56 < kahrl> interesting
19:56 < dx> ._.
19:56 < billyyjoee> You've never seen a Kahr in this IRC at all? Really need to speak to him.
19:56 <+pdelvo> Do you have a question? Maybe we can help even if we are not kahr
19:57 < billyyjoee> I'm from The VoxelBox. We use the voxelmodpack and theres a rumour going around that Kahr is removing the feature in CTM which allows alternate textures. Wanted to see if the rumour was true or not, that's all.
19:58 < billyyjoee> We use the alternate textures in CTM a lot. Most of our builds use it, so it's going to be quite harsh on the server if he is.
23:46 < Grum> < Eviltechie> [19:26:05] Now that he just left mojang, it's been removed <-- no the only thing removed, it was a happy timing coincidense btw
23:47 < Not-003> [fCraft] fragmer * r2226 9 files : Replaced boolean options with enums for PlayerInfo.Freeze/Unfreeze/ChangeRank and Player.Kick
23:48 < SinZ> shame, the dev blog was a decent idea, but perhaps too soon
23:49 <+AndrewPH> could somebody pastebin what I missed?
23:49 <+AndrewPH> client crashed and buffer didn't save
23:50 < SinZ> on it
23:50 <+AndrewPH> thx
23:50 <+md_5> Grum no such thing as coincidences
23:50 <+AndrewPH> (missed basically the last 6 hours)
23:50 < barneygale> Any new protocol news?
23:51 < SinZ> http://pastebin.com/bgw6RprP
23:51 <+AndrewPH> aha
23:51 < Grum> md_5: yes there is, it was faster to remove the whole site than to figure out how the permissions were arranged, and as i said, not just that vanishes
23:52 < Grum> *vanished
23:52 < Grum> barneygale: you will have ... let me see, 5 packets with id 0
23:52 < barneygale> :o
23:53 < barneygale> ping variations?
23:53 < Grum> no
23:53 < Grum> all completely different packets
23:53 < barneygale> I was going to say :P
23:53 < Grum> 4 with id 1 ... 4 with 2
23:53 < barneygale> Hm... ID0 is a category or something? I don't follow.
23:53 < Grum> no, the id 0x00 ;D
23:54 < Grum> like you have the packet 0xFE etc now .....you will have 5 completely different packets with the id 0x00 ;)
23:54 < dexter0> heh
23:54 < Grum> oh maybe even 6
23:54 < barneygale> Well, I guess I don't understand heh. What does having ID 0x00 signify?
23:54 < barneygale> or: how are IDs assigned?
23:54 < Grum> that we named it 0x00 ;)
23:54 < Grum> by hand
23:54 < Grum> oh, protocol version will be reset!
23:55  * md_5 doesnt care as long as he can reset the clients entity id
23:55 < barneygale> Grum: brand new protocol so it makes sense to
23:55 < Grum> not 'completely' new but different enough that you cannot even connect without doing major changes
23:55 < barneygale> I am either too tired today or Grum is being a bit of a tease
23:55 < dexter0> this has to do with the variant stuff right?
23:55 < Grum> the game related packets will be mostly the same, they will just be renumbered
23:56 <+sadimusi> will there be some kind of documentation?
23:56 < barneygale> dexter0: that would make sense to me, e.g. variations on Player Position & Look all have a single ID
23:57 < barneygale> but I don't know if that's what Grum is talking about :P
23:57 < Grum> sadimusi: no, dont be silly
23:57 < Grum> barneygale: no, they will all have a different id
23:57 < dexter0> err, I had a typo.  But I just realized my previous statement is not applicable here.
23:57 < barneygale> Grum: is there any point me asking again for a clarification
23:57 < Grum> you can :P
23:57 < barneygale> I know I /can/
23:58 < barneygale> I just don't know if it's worth it anymore :(
23:58 < Grum> we're making a distinction between different 'protocols' and what direction the traffic is going
23:58 < Grum> so a packet can only be used in 1 direction 
23:58 < Grum> one of the 'protocols' will be 'logging in' or 'being ingame'
23:58 < barneygale> Ahh, I see
23:58 < Grum> those account already for 4 packets with 'id' 0
23:59 < barneygale> very interesting
--- Day changed ven. oct. 04 2013
00:00 < Grum> client->server we'll most likely be really strict
00:00 < Grum> in that you can at most send like 4kb of data per packet
00:00 < Grum> and we can nail it down per packet-type send
00:00 <+md_5> just add a way to reset the client entity id
00:00 < Grum> yes yes md_5, if we get aroudn to do it
00:00 < Grum> 1+9 should be merged
00:00 <+md_5> yay
00:00 <+md_5> \o/
00:00 < barneygale> :)
00:00  * md_5 crosses fingers before today/tomorrows snapshot
00:01 < Grum> we dont know what kind of retardo logic that sits behind it might prevent us from doing that change
00:01 < Grum> we have tons to fix tomorrow
00:01 < Grum> and not a lot of time
00:01 < Grum> there is a change we arent ready
00:01 < Grum> *chance; and a high one ;)
00:02 < barneygale> You still working Grum?
00:02 < Grum> we'll release what we have if it compiles and lets you login ;)
00:02 < Grum> barneygale: stopping now
00:02 < barneygale> slave-drivers at mojang eh
00:05 < Grum> barneygale: not really
00:07 < barneygale> Grum: I didn't really think so anyway, just being silly
00:31 < Not-003> [fCraft] fragmer * r2227 2 files : Fixed a startup crash caused by overly zealous null checks in Config's self-test.
00:32 < Not-003> [fCraft] fragmer * r2228 8 files : Last round of commenting/cleanup. Now, time to add some features.
00:42 < Not-003> [fCraft] fragmer * r2229 4 files : Replaced the ancient NBTag library with fNbt, for indev map loading.
00:57 < Not-003> [bravo] MostAwesomeDude pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/LgUAfA
00:57 < Not-003> [bravo] Corbin Simpson 72c03c4 - chunk: Refactor dirtiness to fire a simple callback hook. Seems easy enough! Refs #366.
04:59 < Not-003> [MCPP] RobertLeahy pushed 4 commits to master [+2/-1/±4] http://git.io/FsjjAA
04:59 < Not-003> [MCPP] RobertLeahy 2965cce - Module Convenience Macro
04:59 < Not-003> [MCPP] RobertLeahy cda189e - Configuration Commands
04:59 < Not-003> [MCPP] RobertLeahy 3806eb0 - Maintenance Bugfix
04:59 < Not-003> [MCPP] RobertLeahy c2ea9c1 - Doxyfile
05:09 < Eviltechie> does the bot do anything besides commit messages?
05:09 < Eviltechie> It's starting to get on my nerves and I'll just /ignore it if that's all it does
05:10 < dx> lol
05:10 < dx> yeah that's all
05:10 < dx> feel free to ignore
09:31 < didomusicuk> morning everyone :)
14:30 < Not-003> [MCPP] RobertLeahy pushed 2 commits to master [+1/-1/±3] http://git.io/UYpeZg
14:30 < Not-003> [MCPP] RobertLeahy eb1a149 - Noise Overhaul
14:30 < Not-003> [MCPP] RobertLeahy 396c588 - Default World Generator - Rivers and More
14:33 < Not-003> [bravo] MostAwesomeDude pushed 3 commits to master [+0/-0/±11] http://git.io/BMecBg
14:33 < Not-003> [bravo] Corbin Simpson b328b44 - world: Add dirtiness tracking as an event to the chunk cache. For reasons I'm not quite sure about, this unbreaks two expected failures. Hm.
14:33 < Not-003> [bravo] Corbin Simpson 92ea0f3 - world: Fix up save_chunk() and make its callers less racy. Refs #366.
14:33 < Not-003> [bravo] Corbin Simpson a3cdae8 - world: Switch caching subsystem to separate caching object. And fix up a bunch of callers nearby. Maybe the ``_cache`` attribute shouldn't be private? Refs #366.
15:16 < Not-003> [bravo] MostAwesomeDude pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-0/±0] http://git.io/kL5C4w
15:16 < Not-003> [bravo] Corbin Simpson ea37144 - Add a mailmap.
18:37 < didomusicuk> hi all
18:37 <+pdelvo> hi
--- Day changed sam. oct. 05 2013
02:19 < Not-003> [bravo] MostAwesomeDude pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/7NUhXw
02:19 < Not-003> [bravo] Corbin Simpson da74157 - world: As seasons change, apply the changed season to cached chunks. Fixes #366.
02:20 < SinZ> ooh, seasons
02:22 < dx> bravo always had seasons
02:22 < dx> as an alternative to biomes
02:23 < dx> interesting concept but when i used it i was always stuck in winter :(
03:44 < Not-003> [fNbt] fragmer pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±13] http://git.io/4nwVcw
03:44 < Not-003> [fNbt] fragmer d4784f9 - Optimized the serialization process a tiny bit (eliminated 1 conditional and 1 parameter pass per saved tag).
11:47 < Not-003> [fNbt] fragmer pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±3] http://git.io/eA9iJg
11:47 < Not-003> [fNbt] fragmer ba528a6 - Sped up reading/writing files with NbtFile. Fixed NbtFile.DefaultBufferSize defaulting to 0. Optimized writing string-heavy files.
11:56 < fragmer> fNbt 0.5.1 coming soon (tomorrow probably); optimization/bugfix release
11:56 < fragmer> fNbt 0.6.0 soon after, with a new option for high-performance NBT writing (~30% quicker than current NbtFile.WriteToStream, significantly reduced memory use, all at the expense of ease-of-use)
13:06 < Aquaticus> Is anyone in?
13:33 <+sadimusi> Aquaticus: just ask your question and maybe somebody will answer it
13:35 < Aquaticus> Well I heard that Dinnerbone was going to change the MC protocol quite a bit for 1.7
13:36 < Aquaticus> I wondered if anyone knew any specifics
13:36 <+sadimusi> please don't ping him unnecessarily
13:36 <+sadimusi> but yes, he told us a few things
13:36 < Aquaticus> Sorry I didn;t know he was in here
13:37 < Aquaticus> So what did he say?
13:37 <+sadimusi> first of all there will be at least 4 different protocols, two for the login phase and two for the game phase
13:38 <+sadimusi> those two are separated by direction
13:38 <+sadimusi> so there will be 4 different 0x00 packets
13:38 <+sadimusi> then he wants to use UTF-8 and varints
13:39 <+sadimusi> iirc even the packet id is a varint which imho is pretty stupid
13:39 < Aquaticus> 4 different keep alives? Interesting
13:39 <+sadimusi> only around two of them will be keep alive
13:39 < Drainedsoul> linking the protocol parsing to the player's state is tight coupling imho
13:39 < Drainedsoul> tbh I expected no less from Mojang
13:39 < Aquaticus> Did he say why he wants UTF-8 instead of 16?
13:39 < Drainedsoul> well UTF-16 is awful
13:39 < Aquaticus> I understand most (but not all) of the current protocol is 16
13:40 < Drainedsoul> so whether he's stated a reason or not, it's a good thing
13:40 <+sadimusi> I think he just chose it because it's less data to be sent :D
13:40 < Aquaticus> I'm not sure he cares about less data sent
13:40 <+sadimusi> judging from the varint choice
13:40 < Drainedsoul> it also doesn't have endianness concerns
13:40 < Aquaticus> https://gist.github.com/Dinnerbone/5631634 what's discussed here makes it sound like he isn't focusing on data size so much
13:41 < Drainedsoul> no one should actually choose UTF-16 in this day and age when they have a choice.  It's all the disadvantages of UTF-8 and -32 without any of the advantages
13:41 <+sadimusi> who said they had to be consistent with their choices? :P
13:41 < Aquaticus> Oh I see, Drainedsoul
13:41 < Aquaticus> I wasn't quite sure what you meant at first
13:41 <+sadimusi> they didn't really choose utf-16 anyway, it's just what java uses by default
13:42 < Aquaticus> Yeah
13:42 < Drainedsoul> UTF-8 has the advantage of space efficiency, which UTF-16 doesn't, but has the disadvantage of being multi-byte, which UTF-16 also has.  UTF-32 has the advantage of not being multi-byte, which UTF-16 doesn't have, but has the disadvantage of endianness problems, which UTF-16 also has. >_
13:42 < Drainedsoul> *>_>
13:42 < Aquaticus> How is 32 not multi byte?
13:42 < Drainedsoul> *multi-code unit
13:42 < Aquaticus> Ah
13:42 < Drainedsoul> each code point is 1 UTF-32 code unit
13:43 < Aquaticus> Yeah
13:43 < dx> at least for now
13:43 < Drainedsoul> :P
13:43 < Aquaticus> I agree about the consistency though, the Y coordinate is at times a byte, a short and an int in various packet types
13:43 < Drainedsoul> I'm just hoping the new protocol doesn't constrain column height the way the current one does.  Probably too much to hope for tho
13:43 < Aquaticus> If I had it my way I'd do away with the ASN format for the keys
13:44 <+sadimusi> the only thing I hope for is backwards compatibility for the ping, that would make my life a whole lot easier
13:44 < Drainedsoul> but I think the time comes when backwards compatibility is a kludge
13:44 < Drainedsoul> ever worked with WinAPI?
13:44 < dx> it will look awful in the code, but it's just ping
13:45 < dx> they can try to isolate it... somehow
13:45 < Aquaticus> I've never used WinAPI in any real sense
13:45 < Aquaticus> I might have played with it for a few minutes once
13:45 <+sadimusi> If I were to design the protocol I would definitely drop backwards compatibility, but I still hope they don't
13:45 < Drainedsoul> a HANDLE in WinAPI is a typedef'd void pointer.  APIs that existed in the Win16 days return -1 for failure.  APIs from Win32 return 0 (i.e. NULL).
13:45 < Drainedsoul> some APIs use both for different parameters
13:45 < Drainedsoul> ...
13:46 < dx> sadimusi: they can always drop it after 1.6 clients stop being relevant
13:46 < Drainedsoul> this is just one example of backwards compatibility being kludge
13:46 < Aquaticus> I like void pointers though, they're neat :D
13:46 < Aquaticus> Back in the bad old days
13:46 < dx> sadimusi: i mean, <=1.6 clients
13:46 < Aquaticus> void* malloc(size_t sz);
13:46 < Drainedsoul> well that's not the issue.  The issue is that in some cases HANDLE == 0xFFFFFFFF means failure, in other cases it's totally valid.
13:46 <+sadimusi> dx: I only care if there are still <=1.6 servers around
13:46 <+sadimusi> dx: right now there are about 5% 1.5.2 servers on my list
13:47 < Aquaticus> Right
13:47 < Aquaticus> Well I have no immediate plans to work with the windows api
13:47 < dx> sadimusi: what about 1.4.6? (my ftb server is stuck there)
13:47 < Drainedsoul> CreateIoCompletionPort the function actually takes INVALID_HANDLE_VALUE as one of its parameters if you don't want to provide that parameter, whereas NULL does the same thing for the other one.
13:48 < Drainedsoul> I had a lot of fun tracking down a SIGSEGV in my server that came from accidentally getting those backwards...
13:48 < Aquaticus> I'm working on a MC server in C# at the moment actually
13:48 < Drainedsoul> C++ 4eva ;[
13:48 <+sadimusi> dx: 0.8% are on 1.4.x
13:49 < dx> that seems to be more than 0
13:49 < Aquaticus> I've never done socket stuff in C++ though, so I thought # would be easier
13:49 < Aquaticus> By the way does SirCmpwn ever come in here?
13:49 < dx> he used to, but not anymore
13:49 < Aquaticus> I want to tell him his comments on the Dinnerbone chat gist made me laugh
13:49 < Aquaticus> But I agree with it
13:49 < dx> don't ping him
13:49 < Aquaticus> (sorry to ping again)
13:49 < Drainedsoul> I don't know if he's still banned, but he was banned because he didn't praise Our Lords the Mojangstas
13:49 < Aquaticus> Sorry didn't mean it
13:50 <+sadimusi> dx: that are 239 servers, so not really negligible 
13:50 < Aquaticus> Banned? wow
13:50 < dx> sadimusi: ouch.
13:50 < Aquaticus> Well thanks for letting me know about the changes, guys
13:51 <+sadimusi> Aquaticus: he hangs out in #craft.net
13:51 < Aquaticus> I might check that out
13:51 < dx> sadimusi: does anything stop you from caching which ping protocol to use for each individual server? or the query process 'stateless' right now?
13:51 < Aquaticus> Seems like a fair amount will get changed for 1.7, I might as well not do any more until then
13:51 < dx> ...i guess that does count as pain in the ass compared to what you're doing now
13:52 < Drainedsoul> I don't see why you wouldn't do anything until then
13:52 < Drainedsoul> if you avoid tight coupling etc., you should be fine
13:52 < dx> ^
13:52 < Drainedsoul> but if you tightly couply your components, you're going to have a bad time anyway
13:52 < dx> there's a lot of things to do, not everything is protocol
13:52 < Aquaticus> At the moment what I've been working on is protocl
13:52 < Aquaticus> protocol*
13:52 <+sadimusi> dx: currently only the ip and port is cached but I might have to do something like that if backwards compatibility is really broken
13:53 < Drainedsoul> I don't know about C#, but implementing the protocol in C++ isn't difficult at all
13:53 < Drainedsoul> have you done your actual connection handling?
13:53 < Drainedsoul> hint: that shouldn't be coupled to protocol handling at all
13:53 < Aquaticus> Yeah I can get a player to spawn
13:53 < Aquaticus> Something's weird with my stream encryption though and I haven't figured out what yet
13:53 < Drainedsoul> what do you mean "weird"?
13:53 < Aquaticus> Well you know how a string is prefixed with a short indicating its length?
13:54 < Drainedsoul> yes
13:54 < Aquaticus> Well my code at the moment doesn't decrypt that short properly
13:54 < Aquaticus> So instead of say 16 it reads like 10000 or some such
13:54 < Aquaticus> And then fails when it can't read that many bytes :D
13:54 < Aquaticus> I expect there's some typo or something
13:54 < Drainedsoul> how are you encrypting the short/etc.
13:54 < Aquaticus> I haven't worked on it in a few days
13:55 < Drainedsoul> are you making sure to flip the endianness of the short
13:55 < Aquaticus> Yes because all prior unencrypted packets work fine
13:55 < Drainedsoul> how do you handle encryption, broadly?
13:56 < Aquaticus> I expect wrongly because I've never done it before :P
13:56 < Aquaticus> Err let me see
13:56 < Drainedsoul> well it just seems bizarre that one specific data value isn't being encrypted, or being encrypted incorrectly
13:56 < Drainedsoul> encryption should be decoupled from the protocol, so the encryptor shouldn't really be aware in any significant way of what it's encrypting
13:56 < Aquaticus> Well I don't think it's JUST shorts that don't work
13:56 < Aquaticus> The first packet I read happens to have a short and the program crashes there
13:57 < Drainedsoul> well you shouldn't be "reading packets" per se, you should be reading buffers.  The parsing should happen thereafter
13:57 < dx> Aquaticus: protip: craft.net is a good "reference" implementation
13:57 < Aquaticus> Yeah I did go through that
13:58 < Aquaticus> I'm trying to see if I can work it out myself first though
13:58 < Aquaticus> I feel I'd learn more by doing that
13:58 < dx> sure then
13:58 < Aquaticus> I also use a Minecraft protocol proxy
13:58 < Aquaticus> Which I found invaluable
13:59 < Drainedsoul> pro-tip: Once you're done building your protocol parsing, build a protocol proxy into your server
13:59 < Aquaticus> I appreciate the advice though, thanks
13:59 < Drainedsoul> that's what I did, now that is invaluable
13:59 < Drainedsoul> server just spits out verbose information about the packets it's receiving/sending
13:59 < Drainedsoul> can't beat that for debugging
13:59 < Aquaticus> At the moment I've got my code printing out every packet it recieves and sends to the console
13:59 < Aquaticus> Yeah that ^
14:00 < dx> i turned my minecraft bot into a proxy really early in the development, for debugging too
14:00 < dx> and then i lost interest in the bot part
14:00 < Drainedsoul> lol
14:00 < dx> proxies are fun
14:00 < Aquaticus> What would the bot have done?
14:00 < Aquaticus> I've heard of someone who wrote a bot that could build creations from plans
14:01 <+sadimusi> most of the bots (like mineflayer) allow you to script them however you like
14:01 < Aquaticus> Right
14:01 < dx> the bot was supposed to manage some sort of in-game item shop, but it was easier to just use a bukkit plugin and it turned out to be more fun to have a scriptable proxy
14:01 <+sadimusi> which proxy are you using btw?
14:02 < Aquaticus> Err let me look up the name
14:02 < Aquaticus> ProtoProxy
14:02 < Aquaticus> I expect someone in here wrote it
14:02 <+sadimusi> never heard of that one
14:02 < Aquaticus> http://wiki.vg/Utility_List
14:02 < Aquaticus> It was the only one from that list I could get working
14:03 < dx> "m3cp Actively maintained Python Minecraft proxy with plugin support."
14:03 < dx> lol
14:03 < dx> it's not even written correctly
14:04 < Aquaticus> Yeah Python wouldn't behave when I tried to install it
14:04 <+sadimusi> on windows?
14:04 < Aquaticus> Yes
14:04 <+sadimusi> tried SMProxy?
14:04 < Aquaticus> I couldn't get that to build properly either :P
14:04 <+sadimusi> :D
14:04 < Drainedsoul> my experience with SMProxy is mostly just it crashing a lot.
14:05 <+sadimusi> I never used it but assumed it would just work on windows
14:05 < Aquaticus> I got really impatient with it all that day
14:05 < Aquaticus> I found one that worked and just stuck with it
14:06 < Aquaticus> Also I'm from Australia and our internet is horrible, so you have to wait for stuff to download
14:06 < Aquaticus> All our international traffic gets routed via a single 28.8k modem
14:06 < Drainedsoul> rofl
14:06 < Drainedsoul> whereabouts in Australia?
14:06 < Aquaticus> Victoria if you're familiar, south east if you're not
14:06 < Drainedsoul> Victoria but not Melbourne what is this
14:07 < Aquaticus> Well I don't live in the CBD
14:07 < Aquaticus> Greater Melbourne I guess
14:07 < Drainedsoul> ah okay, just making sure
14:07 < Aquaticus> Are you from Aus then?
14:07 < Drainedsoul> no, I have a friend who lives there tho.
14:07 < Drainedsoul> Had the unsurpassed fucking joy of visiting Perth ~4 years ago
14:08 < Drainedsoul> if I die and go to hell, I'm sure it can't be that bad -_-
14:08 < Aquaticus> Hahaha nice
14:08 < Aquaticus> If you live in Melbourne you're required to make fun of those who don't
14:08 < Drainedsoul> my friend moved to Melbourne tho so I'm visiting there this Xmas, I've been led to believe that'll be better
14:08 < Aquaticus> Perth gets a lot of shit from Melbourne
14:08 < Drainedsoul> although I'm not sure how a Canadian like me will cope with Xmas in summer...
14:08 < Drainedsoul> I'll get off the plane wearing my winter coat and be like what's with this heat eh
14:09 < Aquaticus> Hahaha you even added the 'eh'
14:09 < Aquaticus> Melbourne's a great city though, I love it
14:09 < Aquaticus> A lot of history and firsts happened in Melbourne
14:09 < Drainedsoul> the structure of the bay is really interesting to me
14:09 < Drainedsoul> how it just has this tiny mouth
14:09 < Drainedsoul> I heard you guys almost blew away like a week ago tho
14:10 < Aquaticus> 140 kph winds in some places
14:10 < Aquaticus> Flights got grounded, etc
14:10 < Drainedsoul> yeah my friend was sending me pictures of flattened street signs and such
14:10 < Aquaticus> Plenty of trees on roads
14:10 < Aquaticus> We lost power for a couple of hours too
14:11 < Drainedsoul> I don't know if I'd still be here after 140kph winds, on account of Canada my house is completely surrounded by tall evergreen trees ._.
14:11 < Aquaticus> You were talking about the bay before: http://home.vicnet.net.au/~phillip/mf_1d24_.jpg
14:12 < Aquaticus> The water is a different colour inside it and outside it
14:12 < Drainedsoul> that's sweet
14:12 < Aquaticus> I love it down there, there's an old WW2 defence base
14:12 < Aquaticus> Afk for a tick
14:13 < dx> Aquaticus is lagging a lot :/
14:13 < Drainedsoul> hmm?
14:14 < dx> that's a really long tick
14:15 < Drainedsoul> my friend confirms that "tick" is an Australianism for "moment"
14:15 < dx> "tick" is minecraftism for 1/20th of a second
14:15 < Drainedsoul> at least it makes sense, unlike other Australianisms
14:17 < Drainedsoul> I can't really talk being from BC, Canada.  We call two seat couches "chesterfields" and use weird Native American works like "skookum"
14:18 < dx> sadimusi: i'm not sure if i said this before, but i really like how mc4p/messages.py turned out to look.
14:19 < Aquaticus> Ok back now
14:19 < Drainedsoul> terrain generation is like this infinite vortex of complexity that you get sucked into ._.
14:19 < Aquaticus> And yes, tick means moment :D
14:19 < Drainedsoul> it wouldn't really be a problem if it wasn't so addictive ;(
14:20 < Aquaticus> Silly Americans
14:20 < Drainedsoul> unlike most Canadians I actually don't get offended by being called an "American"
14:20 < dx> implying america
14:20 <+sadimusi> dx: me too, but I'm still having a hard time justifying the dark magic involved to myself
14:20 < Drainedsoul> sadimusi: If it makes you feel any better, this code I'm working on uses token pasting macros.
14:20 < Drainedsoul> whatever dark magic you're using can't be that bad.
14:20 <+sadimusi> :D
14:21 < dx> sadimusi: yeah, i was about to say that... i'm not completely happy about the implementation. both inspecting frames + global state is :(
14:21 <+sadimusi> dx: I was planning on modifying it slightly so really only the definitions inside the context are captured 
14:21 < Aquaticus> dx are you American by chance?
14:21 < dx> Aquaticus: nope
14:22 <+sadimusi> dx: that would allow to specify a parent version (for 1.6.4)
14:22 < Aquaticus> I just wondered what having no govt would be like
14:22 < dx> anarchy in the US
14:22 < Aquaticus> In Australia when our govt couldn't get a budget through they got sacked
14:22 < Aquaticus> It happened here in the 70s
14:23 < dx> sadimusi: it's tempting to turn this magic into metaclasses, but as always with metaclasses... i don't know if that makes it better or worse
14:23 < Drainedsoul> what's the magic, I must know.
14:23 < Aquaticus> Kind of makes you glad to have a monarch who can fire the government
14:23 < Aquaticus> I suppose Drainedsoul would agree :D
14:23 < Drainedsoul> if QE is relevant to your gov't I don't know what to say to u
14:24 <+sadimusi> Drainedsoul: using inspect_frame to get all local variable definitions
14:24 < Aquaticus> Well via a governor general
14:24 < Drainedsoul> GG doesn't do anything here, he just rubberstamps things
14:24 < Aquaticus> Same here for ours
14:24 < dx> Drainedsoul: don't look at the magic directly, only marvel at this beautiful facade https://github.com/sadimusi/mc4p/blob/master/mc4p/messages.py
14:24 < Aquaticus> But if the govt does screw up she'll fire them
14:25 < Drainedsoul> here the PM just prorouges parliament and giggles about it, and no one does anything except get irritated with him
14:25 < Drainedsoul> then again being Canadian he has a distinct advantage
14:25 < Aquaticus> Our PM has barely done anything yet, but there's a facebook page:
14:25 < Drainedsoul> when people complain about the economy he's just like look @ america tho
14:25 < Aquaticus> Tony Abbott - Worst PM in Australian History
14:26 < Drainedsoul> politics and sensationalism go hand-in-hand
14:26 < Drainedsoul> dx: I don't name my packets :(
14:26 < Aquaticus> You should see all the fuss about Murdoch lately
14:26 < Aquaticus> Some reckon he rigged the election to get Abbott's right wing party into power
14:26 < dx> Drainedsoul: why not? names are nice for debugging, and mc4p is mostly for that
14:26 < Drainedsoul> dx: Because all the packets are implemented as template metaprograms, which aren't amenable to names
14:27 < dx> and i was complaining about magic
14:27 < Aquaticus> oh god, 572 unread emails
14:27 < Drainedsoul> template <> class PacketTypeMap<0x00> : public PacketType<0x00,Int32> {	};
14:27 < Drainedsoul> it's pretty convenient tho
14:28 < Aquaticus> In my C# server all the packet classes are named
14:28 < dx> i guess you can always refer to packets with constants
14:28 < Aquaticus> They all inherit from a Packet superclass as well
14:28 < Drainedsoul> ugh inheritance
14:29 < Drainedsoul> needs more compile time polymorphism
14:29 < dx> said like a true c++ programmer
14:29 < Drainedsoul> :]
14:29 < Aquaticus> What's that thing called? The diamond problem or something?
14:29 < Drainedsoul> yeah
14:29 < Aquaticus> XD
14:29 < Drainedsoul> well
14:29 < Drainedsoul> it's that or no MI
14:29 < Drainedsoul> jokes on u
14:29 < Aquaticus> I do actually like C++ though
14:30 < Aquaticus> It has type inference
14:30 < Aquaticus> I like type inference
14:30 < Drainedsoul> I like it a lot more since I wrote my own OO Unicode String library
14:30 < Drainedsoul> std::string et al. are just abominations
14:30 < Aquaticus> ^^ this
14:30 < Aquaticus> Err
14:30 < Aquaticus> ^^^
14:30 < Aquaticus> Auto emoticon
14:30 < Aquaticus> What's worse is when you get something like std::iterator<std::string>
14:30 < Drainedsoul> lol
14:30 < dx> all i know about c++ is that you print text using bit shift operators
14:31 < Aquaticus> Better than no operator overloading
14:31 < Drainedsoul> well, C++ has changed the meaning of << and >> to also mean output/input
14:31 < Drainedsoul> for chaining like std::cout << foo << " " << bar;
14:31 < Drainedsoul> which I really like
14:31 < barneygale> << seems to be doing 2 different things in that example
14:31 < Aquaticus> I can't forgive Java for not having operator overloading
14:31 < barneygale> or semantics in c++ are weird
14:31 < Aquaticus> No it's doing one thing in that example
14:32 < Drainedsoul> which "or semantics"?  like how boolean operators short-circuit unless operator || is overloaded?
14:32 < barneygale> Drainedsoul: that was a continuation of my previous line heh
14:32 < Aquaticus> It'd be like Console.Out.WriteLine("{0} {1}", foo, bar);
14:32 < Drainedsoul> it's only doing one thing -
14:32 < Drainedsoul> - printing output
14:33 < Drainedsoul> std::cout's operator << returns a reference to itself, so you can chain it on itself.
14:33 < Drainedsoul> to output foo+" "+bar
14:33 < Drainedsoul> without doing in memory concatenation
14:33 < barneygale> right, but what is `" " << bar` doing? concatenation?
14:33 < Aquaticus> Yes
14:33 < Drainedsoul> it's evaluated left-
14:33 < Drainedsoul> to-right.  So you evaluate std::cout << foo
14:33 < Drainedsoul> which prints foo and returns a reference to std::cout
14:33 < Drainedsoul> so then it's std::cout << " "
14:34 < Drainedsoul> which prints " " and returns a reference to std::cout, so then it's std::cout << bar
14:34 < dx> fun
14:34 < Drainedsoul> :P
14:34 < Aquaticus> It's better than printf in some ways
14:34 < Aquaticus> Because it avoids needing varargs
14:34 < barneygale> ohhh, I see!
14:34 < Drainedsoul> but you can write type safe printf now
14:34 < barneygale> sorry, I'm a total noob to C++
14:34 < Aquaticus> printf is easier to specify formatting with I think
14:34 < Drainedsoul> because variadic templates are the bee's knees
14:34 < dx> barneygale: i was reading it wrong too :D
14:34 < Aquaticus> You guys are duffers
14:35 < barneygale> SORRY FOR NOT KNOWING A LANGUAGE YOU KNOW! :D
14:35 < Aquaticus> Ah that's alright, I don't know Python. All of the earlier discussion was above my head
14:35 < Drainedsoul> in a lot of ways I wish Python wasn't whitespace-delimited.  It's the massive barrier to me using it.  I just can't parse code without curly braces and such things :|
14:36 < Drainedsoul> mostly because I tend to use line breaks and indentation within a single line to make it comprehensible
14:36 < Aquaticus> Yeah
14:36 < dx> we do that too in python code
14:36 < Aquaticus> I like that Python was named after Monty Python though
14:36 <+sadimusi> if you follow the common style guidelines that really isn't a problem
14:36 < Drainedsoul> which common style guidelines?
14:37 < Aquaticus> I make my own style :D
14:37 < Aquaticus> Java's bracing style is fucking stupid IMO
14:37 < Drainedsoul> Allman?
14:37 < Aquaticus> Err I forgot what it's called
14:37 < barneygale> You can still split stuff into multiple lines in python
14:37 < barneygale> and if you do that it doesn't care about the indentation
14:37 < Drainedsoul> Allman is braces under, OTBS is braces inline
14:38 < Drainedsoul> how do you escape newlines?
14:38 < dx> \ before the newline, lol
14:38 < Drainedsoul> so like in C macros
14:38 < Aquaticus> Yeah I'd probably use Allman
14:38 < barneygale> Not always necessary to do \ either
14:38 < Drainedsoul> https://github.com/RobertLeahy/MCPP/blob/master/include/mod.hpp#L108
14:38 < dx> you can also leave brackets open and the parser will know you'll continue the line
14:38 < Drainedsoul> like that?
14:38 < Drainedsoul> oh what
14:38 < Aquaticus> hpp wtf
14:39 < Drainedsoul> so sort of like this: https://github.com/RobertLeahy/MCPP/blob/master/src/aes_128_cfb_8.cpp#L28 ?
14:39 < dx> yup
14:39 < Drainedsoul> this changes everything :D
14:39 < Aquaticus> That code looks awful
14:39 < Drainedsoul> which?
14:40 < Aquaticus> The RoberyLeahy/MCPP link you gave
14:40 < Aquaticus> Robert*
14:40 < Drainedsoul> which one tho
14:40 < Drainedsoul> mod.hpp or aes_128_cfb_8.cpp
14:40 < Aquaticus> The second one
14:40 < Aquaticus> 128_cfb
14:40 < Drainedsoul> yeah it's a C library wrapper.  It's going to be awful no matter how you hash it.
14:40 < Drainedsoul> but it's hidden away in its own file behind a nice abstraction >: ]
14:40 < Aquaticus> Their coding style though
14:41 < dx> TIL MCPP is Drainedsoul's project
14:41 < Aquaticus> Is it now
14:41 < barneygale> My main complaint about python is the lack of inline function definitions
14:41 < dx> barneygale: yeah, lambdas are terrible :(
14:41 < Drainedsoul> you mean like anonymous functions or declaring something inline?
14:41 < barneygale> anonymous, sorry
14:41 < Aquaticus> Inline asm
14:41 < Drainedsoul> dx: You didn't know that until now?  You knew about MCPP before this?
14:41 < barneygale> https://github.com/barneygale/authserver/blob/master/authserver.py#L175 <-- I don't like doing things like this
14:42 < Drainedsoul> yeah anonymous functions are stupid awesome ._.
14:42 < dx> Drainedsoul: always saw the notifico messages, never knew who owned that project (i was like "who the fuck is robert leahy")
14:43 < Aquaticus> So you wrote your own terrain generator then?
14:43 < Aquaticus> I take my hat off to you sir
14:43 < Drainedsoul> :( I made a "Drainedsoul" github account, but my git GUI front-end (SourceTree) didn't play nice with separate accounts \:
14:43 < Drainedsoul> yeah it's here: https://github.com/RobertLeahy/MCPP/blob/master/src/generators/default/main.cpp
14:43 < Aquaticus> That picture of the mountain in particular
14:43 < Aquaticus> Well done
14:44 < Drainedsoul> yeah I think I measured that mountain and its top is Y=221
14:44 < Aquaticus> My house is higher than that
14:44 < dx> Drainedsoul: sounds like a shitty GUI, it should work with public key authentication, not with github accounts
14:44 < Aquaticus> :D
14:44 < Drainedsoul> dx: It does, at least on some level.  But it has neat & tidy Github/Bitbucket integration.
14:45 < Drainedsoul> It asked about a public/private key pair, but I just used the Github integration option.
14:45 < dx> lol
14:45 < Drainedsoul> it's Atlassian's Git GUI front-end.  I really like it
14:49 < Aquaticus> Anyone read Dilbert?
14:49 <+sadimusi> sure
14:49 < Aquaticus> I get them in my email daily
14:50 < Aquaticus> You get the occasional hilarious one :D
14:50 < Drainedsoul> I have a professor who puts Dilbert comics up on the projector everyday before class.
14:50 < dx> how many months between each good one, in average?
14:50 <+sadimusi> yeah, they're very popular among my professors as well
14:50 < Aquaticus> http://imgur.com/mI8gvLA
14:50 < Aquaticus> That one was good
14:51 < Drainedsoul> I hate that so much.  People used to do that where I worked.
14:51 < Drainedsoul> that or putting it ontop of my keyboard
14:51 < Drainedsoul> thankfully I work from home now.  Which obviates that and making going to school more convenient whoo
14:51 < Aquaticus> obviates?
14:51 < Aquaticus> Well there you go
14:52 < Aquaticus> I learned a new word
14:52 < dx> i put stuff on top of my own keyboard when i really need to remember something. it never works.
14:52 < dx> like a post-it note in the middle of the screen
14:52 < Aquaticus> I use windows 7's sticky notes program
14:52 < Drainedsoul> ugh post-its on monitors bother me.  I usually just have a pile of papers next to my keyboard
14:52 < Aquaticus> half of my desktop is covered in them
14:52 < Drainedsoul> alternately I have a second desk where I keep pressing things.  My keys and such are ontop of them, so I see them everytime I go out
14:53 < Aquaticus> I hope I never get a Pointy Headed Boss
14:53 < Aquaticus> or Bill Lumbergh
14:54 < Aquaticus> If I could never work for Bill Lumbergh, that'd be great
14:54 < Drainedsoul> I really like the shirts Bill Lumbergh wears
14:54 < Drainedsoul> banker collar shirts, omfg
14:54 < Aquaticus> And suspenders
14:54 < Drainedsoul> suspenders suck, braces are okay.  Not my thing though
14:54 < Aquaticus> XD
14:55 < Drainedsoul> cowboy boots tho, omfg i luv mah boots
14:55 < Aquaticus> I only own three pairs of shoes
14:55 < Aquaticus> None of them are boots
14:56 < Drainedsoul> I have a pair of sneakers, pair of sandals, pair of cowboy boots, 4 pairs of black leather dress shoes, and a pair of brown leather dress shoes
14:56 < Drainedsoul> I really need to get a brown pair of cowboy boots, but they only sell really good ones in Vancouver :\
14:56 < Aquaticus> 5 pairs of dress shoes?
14:57 < Drainedsoul> ofc.  I only wear the sneakers when I go for walks
14:57 < Drainedsoul> jeans and dress shoes, hella classy
14:57 < Aquaticus> I wear my runners (sneakers to you) daily
14:57 < Aquaticus> My other two pairs are dress shoes and thongs (flip flops to you)
14:57 < Drainedsoul> I hate flip flops ;[
14:57 < Aquaticus> Someone write an IRC bot that translates Australianisms for the rest of you :D
14:58 < Drainedsoul> it would accidentally be triggered whenever some non-Australian used profanity ;)
14:58 < Aquaticus> Write another bot that kicks people who spell colour without the U
14:59 < barneygale> my daily shoes: http://www.lyst.com/shoes/adidas-originals-gazelle-suede-sneakers-red/
14:59 < Drainedsoul> I saw someone on reddit advocating that all programmers use color etc. consistently (as opposed to colour).  I was like gtfo
14:59 < Aquaticus> Yeah I don't think any of my shoes even have a brand
14:59 < Drainedsoul> barneygale: in that particular color?
14:59 < barneygale> yah
14:59 <+sadimusi> I only own two pair of shoes, but that's all I've ever needed so far
14:59 < Aquaticus> Yeah I'm right with you on that Drainedsoul
14:59 < Drainedsoul> what do you pair them with?
14:59 <+sadimusi> (not counting snowboarding and skiing boots)
15:00 < dx> you guys are offtopic-ing the offtopic and i can barely follow you
15:00 < barneygale> Drainedsoul: they work with basically all my clothing
15:00 < Aquaticus> The thing about aluminum is it makes more sense than aluminium
15:00 < barneygale> but y'know, either chinos or jeans
15:01 < Drainedsoul> they'd work really well w/chinos yeah
15:01 < Aquaticus> dx Just read line by line, don't try to find a common theme
15:01 < Aquaticus> the hell is a chino anyway
15:01 < Drainedsoul> I have to take CHEM 101 for a Software engineering course (wat), and my Chemistry professor is a New Zealander.  It's funny whenever he says aluminum
15:01 < Drainedsoul> *aluminium
15:02 < barneygale> "aluminum" sounds so weird
15:02 < Aquaticus> The guy who discovered it originally called it alumium
15:02 <+sadimusi> chem for SE? o.O
15:02 < Aquaticus> Then he changed it to aluminum
15:02 < Aquaticus> The British then changed it again
15:03 < Drainedsoul> The Software Engineering course at my Uni is a joke.  I'm just tolerating it for the piece of paper really.  Two physics courses were required.
15:03 < Aquaticus> You americans kept the aluminum and the rest of us went with aluminium to keep in line with the other -ium elements
15:03 < Aquaticus> Like chromium, sodium etc
15:03 < Drainedsoul> So was Calculus I and II
15:03 < dx> i had chemistry in the first year of university (studying CS), one of the few classes that are completely unrelated but meant to filter people out
15:03 < Aquaticus> How advanced is Calculus II?
15:04 < Drainedsoul> I can't handle Computer Science.  I get like, physically angry.
15:04 < Aquaticus> I liked Computer Science
15:05 < dx> i'm not even studying actual computer science yet because of those 'filter' classes
15:05 < Aquaticus> Instead of learning to program in C or Java or whatever, you learn to program full stop
15:05 < dx> now that is something to get angry about
15:05 < Drainedsoul> Calculus II was hyperbolic trig functions, their inverses and integrals, integration by parts, complex numbers, various other techniques of integration
15:05 < Aquaticus> dx may I ask what year of your degree you're in now?
15:05 < dx> Aquaticus: 0
15:05 < Aquaticus> Integration by parts is the worst
15:05 < Aquaticus> Drainedsoul:  what about you? What year?
15:06 < Drainedsoul> well my real problem is how much weight Computer Science -- as a field -- places on things like big-O etc., which really just masks a lot of essential complexity
15:06 < Drainedsoul> haha my education...
15:06 <+sadimusi> Aquaticus: that's not covered in calculus I?
15:06 < dx> year 0 after three years, that is
15:06 < Drainedsoul> I did two years of CS, dropped out, get my college diploma, and now I'm in second year Software Engineering
15:06 < Aquaticus> I don't know, sadimusi
15:06 < Aquaticus> We don't have calc 1 and calc 2 here
15:06 < Drainedsoul> Calculus I here was limits, differentiation, basic integration
15:06 < Drainedsoul> I may be forgetting some things, I took it in 2007
15:06 < dx> and yeah, what Drainedsoul mentioned about calculus II sounds like what i saw in calculus I
15:07 < Aquaticus> The 'filter' classes in my degree were first year only
15:07 < Aquaticus> Second year is pretty focussed
15:07 < Aquaticus> And the rest obviously are too
15:07 < dx> Aquaticus: yeah, i didn't even get to that second year :P
15:07 < Drainedsoul> well in engineering @ my school, the first year is "shared" between all the engineering disciplines, for high schoolers who have no idea what they want to do.
15:07 < Aquaticus> They made us do Physics
15:08 < Drainedsoul> but department of CSc wanted SENG people to take an extra programming course 1st year, and ENG didn't want to give up on mandatory Chemistry
15:08 < Aquaticus> That was fairly basic, Newton's laws of motion and whathaveyou
15:08 < Drainedsoul> so SENG people do CHEM after they've declared SENG in the 2nd year
15:08 < Drainedsoul> ...
15:08 < Aquaticus> Also thermodynamics which was good
15:08 < Drainedsoul> after 5 cumulative years of post-secondary, I'm pretty jaded about school.  Nothing surprises me anymore.
15:08 <+sadimusi> here only 50% of the classes are in compsci, the rest can be taken in wherever you want
15:08 <+sadimusi> but math is obviously required
15:09 < Drainedsoul> that's about how it was when I was doing a CSc degree, before I dropped out
15:09 < Drainedsoul> the navel gazing got to me
15:09 < Aquaticus> We don't have to pay up front for our degrees :D
15:09 < dx> speaking of which, i got a linear algebra midterm exam in 4 days \o/
15:09 < Drainedsoul> I actually liked linear algebra
15:09 < Drainedsoul> and doing stuff with noise for terrain generation, it's obvious why things like that are useful.
15:09 < Aquaticus> eew vectors
15:09  * sadimusi got 100% in linear algebra I
15:10 < dx> i started liking it since i knew a bit about its practical applications
15:10 < Drainedsoul> vectors will change your life seriously
15:10 < Drainedsoul> when you can get rid of evil trig functions with dot/cross products
15:10 < Aquaticus> I've done vectors
15:10 < dx> which, of course, the professor never mentioned ever
15:10 < Drainedsoul> everything seems better
15:10 < Aquaticus> I just didn't like it
15:10 < Drainedsoul> esp. since CPUs hate doing trig
15:10 < Aquaticus> That's a CPU's fault :D
15:10 < Aquaticus> Trig is fun
15:10 < Aquaticus> How far away is a ship from a lighthouse with a given angle, etc
15:11 < Drainedsoul> that's definitely not a CPU's fault
15:11 < Drainedsoul> sine and cosine are a mess
15:11 < Drainedsoul> an infinite Taylor series are you kidding me
15:11 < Aquaticus> Speaking of infinite series
15:11 < Aquaticus> I have a cool maths trick you might like
15:11 < Drainedsoul> it's pretty telling when hardware cosine and sine are slow too
15:11 < Aquaticus> I could show how the sum of 3^n for n=1 to infinity = -2/3
15:12 < Drainedsoul> does AMD have assembler sin/cos instructions yet?  Or still just Intel?
15:12 < dx> isn't sin/cos meant to be implemented with hard rounding and mappings of pre-calculated values? :D
15:13 < dx> or am i stuck in the 1980s?
15:13 < Drainedsoul> there's a lot of code that does that
15:13 < Aquaticus> Sorry -3/2 not -2/3
15:13 < Aquaticus> Pure maths is fun
15:13 < Drainedsoul> but it falls back on an infinite taylor series
15:13 < Drainedsoul> if you look at C lib implementations
15:13 < Drainedsoul> I don't know how Intel does it in silicon tho lol
15:15 < Aquaticus> I just remembered DST tomorrow morning
15:15 < Aquaticus> Lose an hour of sleep :(
15:17 < Aquaticus> Might as well get going I guess
15:17 < Aquaticus> 11.30 here
15:17 < Aquaticus> Thanks for the help guys
15:30 <+sadimusi> yay, it looks like I chose the right city to live in :) http://www.numbeo.com/quality-of-life/rankings.jsp
15:36 < dx> i'm glad i don't live in venezuela
15:40 < Drainedsoul> Victoria, Canada reporting
15:40 < Drainedsoul> Edmonton and Calgary higher?
15:40 < Drainedsoul> oh there's no freeze-your-balls-off coefficient, makes sense
15:42 <+sadimusi> canada seems pretty nice, the living costs around here are just insane
15:57 <+ammar2> lol pollution index
16:13 < Drainedsoul> sadimusi: It's okay, I'd rather live ~300km southeast in Seattle tho
18:21 < Not-003> [MCPP] RobertLeahy pushed 8 commits to master [+0/-0/±8] http://git.io/sNkXyg
18:21 < Not-003> [MCPP] RobertLeahy 845e1e5 - Noise Documentation
18:21 < Not-003> [MCPP] RobertLeahy 312356a - Noise Includes
18:21 < Not-003> [MCPP] RobertLeahy e28f6e6 - Octave Fix
18:21 < Not-003> [MCPP] RobertLeahy 5ec6e25 - Bias and Gain Improvements
18:21 < Not-003> [MCPP] RobertLeahy fb1927a - Default Generator Includes
18:21 < Not-003> [MCPP] RobertLeahy c5642d1 - Default Generator Macro Fix
18:21 < Not-003> [MCPP] RobertLeahy 6ab843c - Default Generator - Rivers
18:21 < Not-003> [MCPP] RobertLeahy 99b0f97 - Default Generator - Remove Debug Code
20:34 < Not-003> [MCPP] RobertLeahy pushed 2 commits to master [+1/-0/±2] http://git.io/yc3qAA
20:34 < Not-003> [MCPP] RobertLeahy da7e201 - Valid Biome Check
20:34 < Not-003> [MCPP] RobertLeahy 8b5070f - Superflat
23:21 < Not-003> [bravo] MostAwesomeDude pushed 7 commits to master [+1/-0/±17] http://git.io/JWxxlQ
23:21 < Not-003> [bravo] Corbin Simpson 4085b13 - beta: Update from protocol 61 to 74. Completely and totally untested, but hopefully enough to get people moving. It's possible that the new 0xfe prevents clients from communicating with Bravo. If that's the case, then we'll fix it, like we always do.
23:21 < Not-003> [bravo] Corbin Simpson 263b614 - plugins/automatons: Allow grass to be deterministic in unit tests.
23:21 < Not-003> [bravo] Corbin Simpson bbda5f5 - inventory: Clean up a couple algorithmic nits. "I'm gonna make you a little less disgusting every day."
23:21 < Not-003> [bravo] Corbin Simpson dd77a97 - Fix up some pyflakes warnings.
23:21 < Not-003> [bravo] Corbin Simpson 9f08562 - ibravo, policy/windows: More work on IWindow. Refs #409.
23:21 < Not-003> [bravo] Corbin Simpson 1225064 - beta/protocol: Clean up b.p.windows-using code. Refs #409.
23:21 < Not-003> [bravo] Corbin Simpson 2e2b46c - bravo/world: Fix dictionary changing size during iteration.
--- Day changed dim. oct. 06 2013
00:13 <+sadimusi> mojang seems to be validating the skin images very well o.O http://s3.amazonaws.com/MinecraftSkins/xXGabieXx.png
00:14 <+sadimusi> (it's a jpeg)
00:14 <+AndrewPH> Miclee's skin is a gif
00:14 <+AndrewPH> (or was at one point)
00:17 < dexter0> did it actually animate in-game?
00:20 <+ammar2> probably not
00:21 <+sadimusi> does it even work at all?
00:21 <+sadimusi> from my sample of 100 players I got two with jpeg skins…
00:29 < dav1d> transparency also doesn't work
00:29 < dav1d> my guess, they load that as simple texture (oh wonder)
00:29 < dav1d> and obviously opengl doesn't know transparency or animations
00:29 < dav1d> if the image loader is capable of loading jpeg, gif and png, there is no problem at all
00:30 < eddyb> animations would be evil...
00:30 < eddyb> (this can work for any texture now, I think)
00:31 < eddyb> just set a very large delay between frames, and you can confuse people
00:32 < Dinnerbone> We have to specifically make them animatable.
00:32 < Dinnerbone> Skins cannot be animated, transparent or anything silly.
00:36 < dav1d> yeah, I know :D
00:36 < dav1d> well you could send GL_BLEND for them
00:37 < dav1d> would look strange though
00:37 < Dinnerbone> And disabling the "make sure nothing's transparent" code
00:37 < Dinnerbone> And figuring out proper transparency for entities
00:38 < dexter0> that' right, there are no semi transparent entities.  No depth sorting.
00:50 < eddyb> Dinnerbone: I was referring to other textures being currently animatable, with arbitrary amounts of time between frames
00:50 < Dinnerbone> Yes. We have to enable this. Skins don't get this property unless we tell them to.
00:53 < eddyb> I'm either too tired to understand that you're not correcting me, so I'll say it anyway: I know skins don't have nice stuff yet
01:59 < Ghoul_> does anyne know if Login Request (0x01) takes a unicode string or a ascii string?
02:00 <+md_5> it takes the minecraft string format
02:00 <+md_5> which is basically UCS-2
02:00 < Ghoul_> for the world type. When I send a unicode string the client gives a NullPointerException, but when I send an ascii string the client hangs in Logging In... and segfaults when I send the next packet
02:00 < Ghoul_> aww.
02:00 <+md_5> you have a 2 byte big endian length header
02:00 <+md_5> and then each character position is 2 bytes
02:00 <+md_5> if your language supports UCS-2 use that
02:00 <+md_5> otherwise make your own reader
02:00 < Ghoul_> I just rolled my own that I've been using so far, but that's unfortunate. Now I have to debug why I segfault the client
02:01 <+Amaranth> You segfault the client? That's impressive
02:01 < Ghoul_> not the first time
02:01 < Ghoul_> during encryption setup I kept doing it too
02:01 < Ghoul_> took a day to debug
02:01 <+Amaranth> Are you sure you don't mean you trigged an exception handler?
02:01 <+md_5> technicality Amaranth takes a stand
02:01 < Ghoul_> Oh, sorry, wrong terminology for javaland
02:01 < Ghoul_> I cause a NPE
02:09 < Ghoul_> Is `the normal login sequence` on this page (http://wiki.vg/Protocol_FAQ) outdated?
02:09 < Ghoul_> I noticed protocol FAQ shows that you require to send 0x01 login, but it's not listed there under the steps
02:10 < Ghoul_> /s/protocol FAQ/Encryption page/
02:12 <+sadimusi> md_5: it's utf-16
02:13 <+sadimusi> Ghoul_: it's step 15 on the FAQ page
02:13 < coolcat> while we are giving advice, does anyone know why a vanilla client would only send dig packets while holding down left mouse button, and not when you just click left mouse button ?
02:14 < Ghoul_> oh my bad, yeah
02:16 <+sadimusi> coolcat: I'm pretty sure it does that, otherwise you wouldn't be able to break redstone with a single click
02:16 <+md_5> sadimusi close enough
02:17 <+sadimusi> md_5: for all practical purposes it's the same, but more languages seem to support utf-16
02:17 < coolcat> It definitally doesnt, i have my server debug when dig packets are sent, and they are never sent with a single click :/
02:21 < Ghoul_> haha, OK, this time I was able to send the client into an infinite loop or something :C
02:22 < dx> achievement unlocked: ☑ crash the client
02:22 < Ghoul_> lol
02:23 < dx> that's like finding coal, i think
02:23 <+sadimusi> coolcat: I tried it myself, the client definitely sends i
02:23 <+sadimusi> it*
02:34 < coolcat> Eh, wont send it to my server
02:35 < coolcat> *btw using custom server if you didnt know
02:36 <+sadimusi> but a proxy in-between and check if you really don't get it
02:36 <+sadimusi> because I trust my proxy more than your custom server
02:40 < Ghoul_> sadimusi: which proxy is that
02:41 < Ghoul_> I think that's what I should be using to debug this nonsense I'm having here :( sometimes the client stack overflows my *Haskell* server (wtf?)
02:41 <+sadimusi> I use mc4p, but if you're on windows you're probably better of with SMProxy
02:41 <+sadimusi> or ProtoProxy
02:43 < dx> maybe we should get someone to package mc4p with py2exe or something
02:43 <+sadimusi> dx: the issue is pycrypto
02:43 < dx> i wonder if there's something better than py2exe already
02:43 <+sadimusi> and probably gevent
02:43 < dx> sadimusi: "issue" how?
02:44 <+sadimusi> the usual ways to install those don't work
02:44 <+sadimusi> gevent also depends on libevent which probably isn't installed on windows
02:44 <+sadimusi> it's most likely still possible to package it, just a lot harder
02:45 < coolcat> Is there any where to download SMProxy as an exe?
02:45 < Ghoul_> anybody got a prebuilt SMProxy?
02:45 < Ghoul_> ^ yeah that
02:45 < Ghoul_> It has like 4 dependencies I'd prefer not to setup..
02:46 < dx> i wonder where did the smproxy binaries go
02:47 <+sadimusi> they were hosted on github, so they might not exist anymore
03:06 < SinZ> the main thing that fooled me with installing mc4p is, that it requires python 2.7.5
03:06 < SinZ> I had python 2.7.3 and it didn't work
03:07 < dx> wot
03:08 <+sadimusi> sure? I used 2.7.3 as well until recently
03:08 < dx> isn't the difference between 2.7.3 and 2.7.5 just bugfixes?
03:09 < SinZ> one of the dependancies just refused to appear for mc4p until I updated to .5
03:09 <+sadimusi> do you remember which one?
03:10 < SinZ> I think it was greenlet, not 100% though
03:11 <+sadimusi> iirc gevent should even work with 2.6.x
03:12 < Ghoul_> oh I see, my encryption is busted
03:12 < Ghoul_> that explains a lot.
03:52 < Ghoul_> sadimusi: tagging you because you probably know this, sorry. Do I need a different encryption IV/buffer for send and receive, or do they use the same one?
06:43 < Drainedsoul> Ghoul_: You're going to need different ones.
09:54 <+Amaranth> sadimusi: UTF-16 is UCS-2 with surrogate pairs but the Java String API does not consider surrogate pairs for things like the length so the API is still basically UCS-2
09:54 <+Amaranth> Which means if you have something that is 16 UTF-16 "characters" whatever the hell they really are but more than 16 codepoints it'll be rejected
10:19 < drainedsoul_> Amaranth: The correct name is a UTF-16 code unit
10:20 < drainedsoul_> the MC protocol specifies the length of strings in UTF-16 code units, but that doesn't mean that the string is actually UCS-2.  To insinuate that would be like saying that because a protocol specifies the length of UTF-8 strings in bytes, it's actually ASCII.
10:23 <+Amaranth> drainedsoul_: But the actual server reads N chars where N is the string length specified
10:23 < drainedsoul_> also trying to hand wave away UTF-16 because the Java string API reports the length of strings in code units belies the complexities of Unicode.  Knowing the length of a string in code points is just as meaningless and arbitrary as knowing the length of the string in code units.  It tells you nothing.
10:23 <+Amaranth> Yes yes we're going to talk about graphemes again :P
10:23 < drainedsoul_> if you knew that the string was in a certain normalization form, knowing the number of code points might tell you something, but it certainly doesn't map onto anything the user cares about.
10:24 <+Amaranth> And I'm going to say you should normalize before sending
10:24 < drainedsoul_> I'm just saying that most typical measurements of string length are meaningless and arbitrary.
10:24 <+Amaranth> But calling what the protocol uses UTF-16 is definitely wrong
10:25 < drainedsoul_> no, it uses UTF-16.  UCS-2 can't encode surrogate pairs, and the vanilla server sends/receives/handles surrogate pairs, so it's definitely UTF-16
10:26 < drainedsoul_> if you look at a UCS-2 string and it has a lead or trail surrogate in it, it's not UCS-2.
10:26 <+Amaranth> drainedsoul_: Is a surrogate pair two code units?
10:26 < drainedsoul_> Since that would imply a code point with a numerical value in a range that the Unicode consortium has reserved
10:26 < drainedsoul_> which means it's illegal, and therefore not Unicode at all
10:27 < drainedsoul_> yes, a surrogate pair is two UTF-16 code units
10:27 < drainedsoul_> receiving a high/low surrogate pair in a UCS-2 stream is no different than receiving the code point 2 million in a UTF-32 stream.  It's trivially representable by the encoding, but it's still illegal because it's not valid Unicode.
10:28 <+Amaranth> Alright so the end result of all of this is once again that strings are fucking confusing and I'm either remembering a really old version of the wiki or not remembering it correctly
10:28 < drainedsoul_> yeah Unicode is pretty much a bottomless pit.  But sadimusi and I confirmed that Minecraft does indeed use UTF-16.  You can send/receive/etc. the G Clef character, which is outside the BMP, and therefore cannot be represented by UCS-2.
10:29 <+Amaranth> It would probably be simpler to explain string lengths in the protocol as "number of shorts in the string"
10:30 < drainedsoul_> you could do that, but that might be more confusing as people try and deduce the mapping between the two.  I like to think I struck a pretty good balance: http://wiki.vg/Data_Types
10:30 <+Amaranth> Poor UCS-2 though, ended up being the worst encoding ever
10:31 < drainedsoul_> I don't understand why anyone -- even in the early 90s -- thought 65536 characters would be enough.
10:35 <+Amaranth> The worst part is UCS-2 was only around for a couple years before UTF-8 came out yet a lot of important things landed on it
10:36 <+Amaranth> Early adopters with strict backwards compatibility guarantees make for a bad combination
10:40 < Ghoul_> Drainedsoul: thanks
10:41 < Ghoul_> hmm, I feel my optimizer is merging them together under -O2! DERP!
10:48 < drainedsoul_> if you're not invoked undefined behaviour and your optimizer is changing the runtime behaviour of your program, you need a new optimizer.
10:48 < drainedsoul_> *invoking
11:12 < Grum> <drainedsoul_> yeah Unicode is pretty much a bottomless pit.  But sadimusi and I confirmed that Minecraft does indeed use UTF-16.  You can send/receive/etc. the G Clef character, which is outside the BMP, and therefore cannot be represented by UCS-2. <-- we just use java's `char` -- which can only hold 16bit worth of info
11:13 < Grum> with the change we're doing we can easily use 'normal' utf8 over the wire
11:13 < Grum> which will make it a pain in the buttcheek to manually decode but should support 'all the things' :)
12:04 < Drainedsoul> a pain in the buttcheek to decode, how?  You just throw it into a decoder and out comes a string.
12:04 < Drainedsoul> same as UTF-16 or any other encoding
12:05 < Drainedsoul> the number of 0 bytes in strings as it is though makes me want to sob
12:23 < Not-003> [MCPP] RobertLeahy pushed 3 commits to master [+1/-0/±3] http://git.io/KY0nRw
12:23 < Not-003> [MCPP] RobertLeahy 81022bc - World Makefile Cleanup
12:23 < Not-003> [MCPP] RobertLeahy f79b252 - Debug Logging Fix
12:23 < Not-003> [MCPP] RobertLeahy d2d225a - Debug Toggle Command
12:35 < ellisvlad> Hi
14:03 < Not-003> [fNbt] fragmer pushed 4 commits to master [+0/-0/±6] http://git.io/hH2cKg
14:03 < Not-003> [fNbt] fragmer 28bea40 - Renamed LibNbt.Test namespace/assembly to fNbt.Test, to match the rest of the project.
14:03 < Not-003> [fNbt] fragmer fc0704d - Edited fNbt release configuration to include debug symbols (as pdb).
14:03 < Not-003> [fNbt] fragmer e57de29 - Added another unit test, for nested list/compound combinations.
14:03 < Not-003> [fNbt] fragmer 40fdef1 - Added configurations for building for x64 and x86 platforms specifically.
15:16 < Not-003> [fNbt] fragmer pushed 6 commits to master [+0/-0/±17] http://git.io/xr_UxA
15:16 < Not-003> [fNbt] fragmer 52a442f - Corrected documentation implying that NbtFile.RootTag may be null.
15:16 < Not-003> [fNbt] fragmer e959342 - Fixed a case where NbtReader would not set its state to NbtParseState.Error after encountering certain kinds of parse errors.
15:16 < Not-003> [fNbt] fragmer 7406bea - Fixed ToString() methods of various NbtTags not respecting NbtTag.DefaultIndentString
15:17 < Not-003> [fNbt] fragmer cc33b43 - Expanded NbtList unit tests to cover IList/ICollection/IList<NbtTag> implementations.
15:17 < Not-003> [fNbt] fragmer 1be3d20 - Expanded NbtFile unit tests to cover loading/saving little-endian-encoded files, as well as reading root tags from GZip- and ZLib-compressed streams, including non-seekable streams.
15:17 < Not-003> [fNbt] fragmer 9a59c20 - Expanded NbtReader unit tests to cover skipping on non-seekable streams and error-handling on corrupt streams.
16:56 < Not-003> [bravo] MostAwesomeDude pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±6] http://git.io/26G-Lw
16:56 < Not-003> [bravo] Corbin Simpson f512b3a - beta: Fake poll packet reciept.
16:56 < Not-003> [bravo] Corbin Simpson 89ef296 - beta: Use JSON for text messages. DINNERBONE HOOOOUUUSE!!! On a positive note, now 1.6.4 clients can log in and get a world. We're back to square one, instead of that icky square zero.
18:48 < Not-003> [fNbt] fragmer pushed 3 commits to master [+1/-0/±10] http://git.io/3boPKg
18:48 < Not-003> [fNbt] fragmer 83eed7c - Added NbtReader.IsAtStreamEnd property. Fixed a number of bugs in NbtReader.ReadListAsArray<T>(), which now works as intended.
18:48 < Not-003> [fNbt] fragmer 138b5fa - Reduced NbtBinaryWriter's internal string-conversion buffer from 256 to 128 bytes, and NbtBinaryReader's internal skip buffer from 64k to 8k, based on profiling data.
18:48 < Not-003> [fNbt] fragmer 9e03413 - Expanded overall unit test coverage from ~70% to ~85%.
19:22 < dividuum> any idea why an 0x04 packet (Time Update) seem to be ignored? I'm sending "age of the world" = 0 and "time of day" = -6000 (eternal noon)
19:22 < dividuum> it works the first time, but after dimension switching any other packet i sent seem to be ignored (the sun rises at 0 again)
19:32 < dividuum> hm. looks like is not enough to send a single time update at the start of a dimension switch. i now defer it by 0.5 seconds and it works. strange...
19:42 < Drainedsoul> dividuum: If you're delaying things by arbitrary numbers to try and get them to line up, rethink your design.
19:44 < dividuum> i know
19:44 < dividuum> but i have no insight into how this packet should behave :(
19:45 < dividuum> the normal server seem to send it every x ticks iirc
19:45 < dividuum> i tried to only send it once but that doesn't work as expected
19:46 < Drainedsoul> why are you trying to avoid sending it every tick?  That's how the server and the client keep their times synchronized.
19:47 < dividuum> i'm setting time of day to a negative value, so the sun stays at noon. i thought sending more packets is a waste of bandwidth (ok, a tiny one), because i'd just repeat that packet.
19:52 < dx> why does a negative value now magically mean noon *forever*?
19:52 <+sadimusi> that was added some time ago
19:53 < dx> must have missed the memo
19:53 < Drainedsoul> I guess if you're going to use signed values for things that naturally map onto unsigned values, you should at least think up some contrived meaning for the negative values
19:55 < Drainedsoul> dividuum: I wouldn't worry about the bandwidth waste from sending 0x04s every tick.  Sounds like adding excessive complexity trying to turn that off.
19:56 < dividuum> In my case it  actually adds complexity because i'd have to start a coroutine sending it %)
19:57 < Drainedsoul> you're not planning on having some kind event that fires every tick?
19:57 < dx> yeah, you're going to need stuff every tick sooner or later
19:58 < dividuum> nope. didn't need that yet. but i just added the coroutine and it works
20:06 < Not-003> [MCPP] RobertLeahy pushed 4 commits to master [+0/-0/±4] http://git.io/RXCdcA
20:06 < Not-003> [MCPP] RobertLeahy e87e795 - Default World Generator - Continental Shelf Threshold Default
20:06 < Not-003> [MCPP] RobertLeahy ebdc248 - Default World Generator - Remove Debug Code
20:06 < Not-003> [MCPP] RobertLeahy e343ec9 - Default World Generator - Offset Y
20:06 < Not-003> [MCPP] RobertLeahy 3d3690d - Default World Generator - Caves
20:20 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 2 commits to master [+7/-2/±8] http://git.io/JO118A
20:20 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 7185ce7 - command: RegisterCommand -> Register. Added SendMessage method to Caller
20:20 < Not-003> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 10f38b9 - format/msgpack: Rewrite to tidy up code and increase performance. Maps are still slow
20:25 < Drainedsoul> by far the most annoying part of world gen code is floating blocks.
21:17 < JoeDoyle23> Were there actual protocol changes from 1.6.2 to 1.6.4?
21:29 < Drainedsoul> the number might've changed?
21:30 < Drainedsoul> https://github.com/RobertLeahy/MCPP/commit/c9cc5ace7ca9de42d2c29371b974930258e8b4b2 yeah looks like that was it.
21:32 < JoeDoyle23> Ok, good enough.  A couple other servers just had the same changes, so I guess that's it!
22:50 < Sehales> hi there, is there another site which explains the minecraft client to server connect/login process? I don't really understand what to do from this site: http://wiki.vg/Protocol_Encryption or is there an example application in c#/java where I can learn from? Btw I have already done the session/authenticat stuff.
22:51 < Jckf> Something like this might help? http://wiki.vg/Protocol_FAQ#What.27s_the_normal_login_sequence_for_a_client.3F
22:54 < Sehales> Isn't that the nearly same like that: http://wiki.vg/Protocol_Encryption#Overview ?
22:56 < Sehales> There are some "information leaks" (or maybe I am stupid?!?) From where is the server getting the player's session id for example?
22:57 < Sehales> I must relogg shortly, please don't answer for a short while
22:58 < Sehales_> I am back
23:02 < Sehales_> ?
23:03 <+sadimusi> the server never gets the player's session id
23:05 <+sadimusi> and there are a lot of implementations out there
23:05 <+sadimusi> you can look at minecraft for java or craft.net for c#
23:06 < Drainedsoul> https://github.com/RobertLeahy/MCPP/blob/master/src/auth/main.cpp I don't know how much it'll help you, but this is a working implementation of the server side
23:06 <+sadimusi> you seem to really like empty lines :D
23:06 < iBotPeaches> Drainedsoul: your spacing scares me
23:07 < Drainedsoul> I have a 2560x1600 monitor :(
23:08 <+sadimusi> wouldn't a bigger font help way more than all this whitespace
23:08 <+sadimusi> I find it really hard to read
23:08 < Sehales_> I only need the client side :D
23:08 <+sadimusi> what language are you using?
23:09 < Drainedsoul> me?
23:09 < Drainedsoul> or him?
23:09 <+sadimusi> him
23:09 < Sehales_> I thought I have seen something about the server is verifying the client over minecraft.net via tw client's sessionid...
23:09 < Sehales_> Java
23:09 < Sehales_> But later I want to use C#
23:09 <+sadimusi> so why use java now? o.O
23:10 < Drainedsoul> sadimusi: What whitespace particularly bothers you?
23:10 <+sadimusi> mostly the excessive use of blank lines
23:10 <+sadimusi> there's barely any code on my monitor
23:10 < Sehales_> I want to first try it in java, because I am working and developing with it since a few years
23:10 < Drainedsoul> what about it is "excessive".  I put a blank line between what I consider to be every logical operation.  Helps me keep the ideas and tasks separated
23:11 <+sadimusi> Sehales_: most of the pieces are in here: https://github.com/SimpleServer/SimpleServer/blob/master/src/simpleserver/stream/Encryption.java
23:11 <+sadimusi> Sehales_: just put them together in the right order ;)
23:11 < Sehales_> At c# I am a beginner, but the windowing stuff is more easier and is looking better with c#
23:11 < Drainedsoul> sadimusi: See I have issues reading that code.  Everything is too bunched together
23:11 < Sehales_> The client in java should be completely console based and very simple, just to try around
23:12 < iBotPeaches> Drainedsoul: is your spacing called something? or just your preference? 
23:13 <+sadimusi> Drainedsoul: there just seems to be an empty line after pretty much anything in your example
23:13 <+sadimusi> Drainedsoul: and yo u drift a bit too far to the right for my taste too
23:13 < Drainedsoul> you can drift to the right a lot on a 2560 pixel wide screen.
23:14 < Drainedsoul> on line 435, there are four statements with no newlines, because those make up the "logical operation" of computing a hash
23:14 <+sadimusi> this is how I usually write these days: https://github.com/sadimusi/mc4p/blob/master/mc4p/parsing.py
23:14 < Drainedsoul> iBotPeaches: I don't know what it's called, if anything.
23:14 <+sadimusi> I can read that very well and most python programmers do it similarly
23:14 < Drainedsoul> I can't read python, at all.
23:15 < Drainedsoul> my mind just gets lost looking for curly braces to anchor itself to ;/
23:15 <+sadimusi> :D
23:15 <+sadimusi> well, I don't really feel at home in c++ either, so that might contribute to my confusion
23:15 < Drainedsoul> I like to think my C++ is cleaner than most, but I have big time issues reading most C/C++ code, so it could just be that.
23:16 <+sadimusi> is there a reason why you keep your comments so short?
23:16 < Drainedsoul> so short left-to-right?
23:16 <+sadimusi> yes
23:16 < Drainedsoul> I try to avoid making them longer than twice as long as the average statement.
23:16 <+sadimusi> sometimes there are 5 lines with 3 words each
23:18 <+sadimusi> I don't have a problem with blank lines between logical blocks, but this just looks silly https://github.com/RobertLeahy/MCPP/blob/master/src/auth/main.cpp#L388
23:19 < Drainedsoul> http://i.imgur.com/CvQd45m.png
23:19 < Drainedsoul> I think it all looks pretty ridiculous on GitHub, but no so much when I'm writing it
23:20 < Drainedsoul> same file/same lines on the right there
23:20 <+sadimusi> that does indeed look better
23:21 < Drainedsoul> is commenting not a thing in modern Python?
23:21 < Drainedsoul> I have a friend who also writes Python, and he doesn't really comment either, but he comments his Java like crazy
23:21 <+sadimusi> for most things comments are just obsolete since the code makes it obvious what is done
23:22 <+sadimusi> if you're writing a library or something you obviously still need comments to document the api
23:23 < Drainedsoul> I guess in C-like languages there's a lot more going on.  Python code seems to always have this zen.
23:24 <+sadimusi> I really like how easily you can read (most) python code
23:24 <+sadimusi> it's much more difficult for me even in java with all the type definitions
23:24 <+sadimusi> and of course c/c++ is a whole other story
23:25 < Drainedsoul> yeah most C code is a total trainwreck.  Pure C++ code can be very readable.  But a lot of people are stuck in writing "C with classes", and then there's C library interop code
23:25 < Drainedsoul> which is a total disaster.
23:25 < Sehales> Same opinion like you, I can't even write python but reading and understanding is
23:26 < Sehales> no problem
23:26 < Drainedsoul> the stuff with double underscores before/after it always confuses me too.  Because in C/C++ that indicates a very dark and arcane sort of magic.
23:28 <+sadimusi> Drainedsoul: how big is your monitor? it looks like my font is slightly larger than yours http://d.pr/i/5zrS
23:28 < Drainedsoul> 30"
23:29 < Drainedsoul> I want to use Sublime Text so bad, but I can't get it to behave the way I want with braces :(
23:29 < Drainedsoul> and indenting
23:31 < Sehales> Okay, thank you for the help/tips I will try to figure out what and how to do all the stuff tomorrow, by the way you got an interesting topic now...
23:32 < Drainedsoul> yeah we randomly get really interesting topics in here.
23:34 < Sehales> I will come back in the next days for sure ;) then I want more topics!! (but maybe a little bit of help too)
23:34 < Sehales> have a nice day or night
23:35 <+sadimusi> cya
23:35 < Drainedsoul> have a g1
23:38 <+sadimusi> on a completely unrelated note, I finally got around to try nginx and it does seem to perform pretty well so far
23:38 <+sadimusi> wonder how it acts under stress
23:39 < Drainedsoul> what're you using it for?
23:41 <+sadimusi> very simple webapp http://face.minecraftservers.org/Drainedsoul
23:42 <+sadimusi> I need player's faces for the new page design, so I built a small service that generates and serves them
23:43 < Drainedsoul> ah okay, Python?
23:43 <+sadimusi> yes
23:43 < Drainedsoul> how is web app programming in Python, as compared to say PHP
23:44 <+sadimusi> the concept is quite different
23:44 <+sadimusi> but you have frameworks that are very similar to those of other languages
23:45 <+sadimusi> they mostly run persistently and accept requests as opposed to loading everything for every request
23:45 < Drainedsoul> ah okay.  That's probably a better design anyway.
23:45 < Drainedsoul> I write a lot of PHP for work.  Awful language.
23:46 <+sadimusi> I have to rewrite minecraftservers.org in php as well :/
23:46 <+sadimusi> but at least I can use some of the old codebase
23:46 < Drainedsoul> "have to"?
23:46 <+sadimusi> well, I get payed to do it
23:46 < Drainedsoul> whoo money
23:46 <+sadimusi> but it has to be php
23:46 < Drainedsoul> why's that?
23:47 <+sadimusi> not really sure
23:47 <+sadimusi> I wrote http://www.minecraftskins.net for the same guy in python
23:47 < Drainedsoul> oh yeah, that's the problem with getting paid.  I know that altogether too well.
23:47 <+sadimusi> but I think he just likes to edit it on his own
23:47 < Drainedsoul> "We have to do X" "why" "idk they're paying us tho"
23:47 < Drainedsoul> I can't imagine having a client who liked to edit my work on his or her own.  I think I'd go mad.
23:47 <+sadimusi> but I'm definitely using some kind of templating engine
23:48 < Drainedsoul> yeah you'd be insane not to.
23:48 <+sadimusi> it's mostly small things, like changing the partner pages or updating the faq
23:48 < Drainedsoul> that's not so bad then.
23:48 <+sadimusi> and twig seems to have the exact same syntax as jinja :)
23:48 <+sadimusi> which is the engine I use in python
23:49 < Drainedsoul> that's cool.
23:49 < Drainedsoul> how will you cope going from Python to PHP?
23:49 < Drainedsoul> Python seems mostly well thought out, PHP on the other hand...
23:49 < Drainedsoul> 'hello'==0 // true
23:50 <+sadimusi> I used to write a lot of php, so I think I'll be ok
23:50 <+sadimusi> I also maintained to old site for quite some time now
23:50 < Drainedsoul> :P well that's good
23:50 < Drainedsoul> I always have little panic attacks when I come from work to writing C++, and realize I've been using == for the last half hour
23:50 < Drainedsoul> I'm like nononono what have I done...wait
23:51 <+sadimusi> :D
23:51 <+AndrewPH> oh ho ho ho  PHP
23:51 < Drainedsoul> it's better than classic ASP/VBScript I tell you
23:51 <+AndrewPH> I've rewritten huge parts of a webgame currently running on php5 that was developed for 5 years on php4 by amateur programmers
23:51 < Drainedsoul> omg
23:51 < Drainedsoul> we took over a PHP4 site recently, written by god knows who
23:52 < Drainedsoul> the client was like it's broken
23:52 < Drainedsoul> what was wrong?
23:52 < Drainedsoul> site required register globals
23:52 <+AndrewPH> our thing still uses register globals (or, well, a custom implementation of it.)
23:52 < Drainedsoul> yeah I went in and write a shim in their main page to "register globals".  I definitely did not actually enable the abomination.
23:53 < Drainedsoul> PHP is one of those things we all wish would die, like IE6, but it just won't.
23:54 <+sadimusi> the original author of minecraftservers.org was hired from freelancers.com and managed to use mysql views which loaded for 20+ seconds but didn't use any of the fields it took so long to calculate
23:54 < Drainedsoul> wut
23:54 <+sadimusi> "make /user not load for 30s" was literally my first assignment 
23:55 < Drainedsoul> wow
23:55 < Drainedsoul> the best is when a client starts complaining about how slow their site is, and all it is, is that the original developer didn't create an index
23:55 < Drainedsoul> everyone thinks you're some kind of god
23:55 <+sadimusi> yeah :)
23:55 <+sadimusi> the original server pinging was ingenious as well
23:56 <+AndrewPH> Drainedsoul: we had a mysql table with billions upon billions of unindexed things
23:56 <+AndrewPH> this was the owned item table
23:56 <+AndrewPH> (perhaps billions was an overstatement, a few million probably, maybe 10)
23:56 <+sadimusi> a cronjob executed a php script every minute which pinged servers starting with the one which wasn't pinged for the longest amount of time and was limited to 60s execution time
23:56 < Drainedsoul> I don't understand how people can actually develop, and have the knowledge of these things escape them.
23:57 < Drainedsoul> a case of people writing things in PHP that really should not be written in PHP? -_-
23:57 <+sadimusi> even for php it was extremely bad
23:57 < Drainedsoul> lol
23:57 <+sadimusi> of course it took a day or so to ping every server on the list
23:58 <+sadimusi> it now takes one minute to ping 30k servers
23:58 < Drainedsoul> is it still written in PHP? :|
23:58 <+sadimusi> python of course ;)
23:58 < Drainedsoul> yeah I was going to say if you did that in PHP you deserve a medal
23:58 < Drainedsoul> ...more than a medal
23:59 <+AndrewPH> should have written it in something better like asm dude
23:59 < Drainedsoul> dude C++...
23:59 < Drainedsoul> for some reason I actually really like writing native networking code.
23:59 <+AndrewPH> asm is the only answer to anything complicated
--- Day changed lun. oct. 07 2013
00:00 < Drainedsoul> it's true!  ASM is the only web scale solution.
00:00 < Drainedsoul> forget node.  Use ASM
00:03 <+AndrewPH> if you don't write it in asm, you aren't writing it!
00:03 < Sehales> lol, I forgot to close my browser and this site and now I read the whole discussion, the only thing I am thinking about is: http://me.veekun.com/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/
00:03 < Drainedsoul> I watched a GoingNative 2013 talk by one of the MSVC++ compiler optimizer developers
00:04 < Drainedsoul> ...I decided I actually have no interest in ASM thereafter
00:04 < Drainedsoul> Sehales: I love that article
00:04 < Sehales> And I have the opinion that you guys are half gods... 
00:05 < Sehales> Why do you have ared
00:05 < Sehales> colored name?
00:06 <+sadimusi> probably because we have +v
00:06 <+sadimusi> or your client just randomly assigns colors
00:07 < Sehales> No there wasn't any colors except at the message of drainedsoul
00:07 <+sadimusi> oh, that's because he mentioned you
00:08 < Sehales> uhm okay
00:08 < Sehales> I am not using irc often 
00:08 < Drainedsoul> Sehales: like this
00:09 < Sehales> yes okay
00:10 < Sehales> Which languages do you h e mastered/are you very good in writing programs with it?
00:10 < Sehales> have*
00:10 < Sehales> And without the "it"
00:10 < Sehales> My english is terrible...
00:12 <+sadimusi> I mostly write in python these days (as you might have noticed) but also have to write in php, java and C from time to time
00:12 <+sadimusi> and soon probably in MPI
00:12 <+sadimusi> which might just be an extension to C or C++
00:12 < Drainedsoul> C/C++/C#/PHP is mostly what I write.  I can also program Java, Powershell (if that counts)
00:13 < Drainedsoul> I used to do some Python but I don't like just saying I know a language when I don't have a really firm grasp on it
00:13 < Drainedsoul> I also have a somewhat decent grasp of the torturous language known as make ;P
00:13 <+sadimusi> yeah, I could write in a few more languages as well but I would spend 50% of the time looking at documentation
00:13 < Drainedsoul> yeah I convince myself sometimes that doesn't count.
00:14 <+sadimusi> like c#, ruby, objC, c++ and a few more
00:14 < dexter0> <3 ObjC
00:14 < Drainedsoul> the idea of learning C++ again
00:14 < Drainedsoul> scares me.
00:15 < Sehales> And you are doing programming as your main job right?
00:15 <+sadimusi> I also used to write a lot in HyperTalk, but that was a long time ago
00:15 <+sadimusi> I'm a CS student
00:15 < Drainedsoul> I program for a living, and I'm a SENG student, and I program for fun
00:15 < Drainedsoul> I'm a real hit @ parties
00:15 < Drainedsoul> >: |
00:15 <+sadimusi> :P
00:16 < Sehales> What means "seng"?
00:16 < Drainedsoul> Software ENGineering
00:16 < Drainedsoul> sadimusi: Did you live in Zurich?
00:16 <+sadimusi> is that actually a separate field?
00:16 <+sadimusi> I do live there right now
00:16 < Drainedsoul> okay just wanted to make sure I was clear, what's CS like as a program there
00:17 < Drainedsoul> here SENG and CSC are very different.  CSC is mostly like navel-gazing mathematics, whereas SENG is actually applying structured design techniques to solving problems with software.
00:17 <+sadimusi> what level are we talking about here?
00:18 < Drainedsoul> I don't really have experience beyond year 2/3 of a 4 year degree program.  I dropped my CSC degree back in 2009
00:18 <+sadimusi> well, things are probably a lot different around here
00:18 <+sadimusi> first of all the degree is separated in a bachelors degree (>=3 years) and a masters degree (>=1.5 years)
00:18 < Sehales> CSC? Computer scientist...?
00:19 <+sadimusi> the first three years really depend on the university
00:19 < Drainedsoul> yeah it is here as well.  You actually can't get more than a bachelor's in SENG
00:19 < Drainedsoul> which is fine by me
00:19 < Drainedsoul> I hate academica with a passion
00:19 < Drainedsoul> yet somehow I've wasted 5 years of my life on it
00:19 <+sadimusi> I studied in bern and had about 50% of the classes in CS
00:19 <+sadimusi> on various topics
00:20 <+sadimusi> including 4 lectures on SE
00:20 <+sadimusi> then I had to take math as a minor which was pretty hard
00:20 < Drainedsoul> what really pushed me over the edge was that the only course I had that I felt was useful before dropping out of CSC was a SENG course.
00:20 <+sadimusi> you take that together with the math students
00:20 < Drainedsoul> I hate math.  Not because I'm bad at it, but because most of it is just usefull fluff as far as I'm concerned.
00:20 < Drainedsoul> I'm sure it's valuable to someone, in some field, just not me, in my field
00:21 <+sadimusi> I just started with my masters degree and am specializing on SE, but if someone would take visual computing he would require that math
00:22 < coolcat> Math is more to teach problem solving than actual math .-.
00:22 < Drainedsoul> the other issue I have with mathematics is that it's not taught in a way that makes its applications obvious, and I have a very difficult time with concepts whose usefulness is not obvious.
00:22 <+sadimusi> I don't think that applies to that level anymore
00:22 <+sadimusi> (@ coolcat )
00:23 < Drainedsoul> I thought Linear Algrebra was cool because its applications were pretty obvious.
00:23 <+sadimusi> Drainedsoul: I took physics as a minor, so I saw at least some of the applications
00:23 < Drainedsoul> ah okay
00:23 <+sadimusi> I'm now studying at ETH which is thought to be pretty good and offers me a wide range of courses to chose from
00:24 < Drainedsoul> I didn't really like physics.  But that could be because they plunged us into quantum/relativity pretty early on
00:24 < Drainedsoul> which put a damper on the whole thing
00:24 <+sadimusi> so far I really like all of them
00:24 < Drainedsoul> trying to cancel out 10^-33 to the point where the calculator can do the equation is not my idea of fun
00:24 < coolcat> really? quantum is the best part of physics imo
00:24 <+sadimusi> I didn't really have a problem with relativity, I thought electro dynamics to be much harder
00:24 < Drainedsoul> ultimately I've gotten to the point where I just see school as something I need to get through to get a degree and work, so I don't enjoy any of it, at all anymore
00:25 < Drainedsoul> ...which is probably bad for me.
00:25 < coolcat> Because its more relevant to what we do today...
00:25 <+sadimusi> mostly because of all the advanced math involved
00:25 < Drainedsoul> I'm also of the opinion that traditional schooling has been displaced with other means of learning.  But being homeschooled K-12 might've influenced that.  I find it really easy to learn independently.
00:25 < Drainedsoul> so I see the degree even moreso as just a symbolic piece of paper
00:27 < Sehales> Okay I will go to bed now, thank you for the nice discussion. Good night / gute Nacht
00:27 < Drainedsoul> adios
00:27 <+sadimusi> good night
00:28 <+sadimusi> in some fields a degree really feels like a worthless piece of paper; I took "Wirtschaftsinformatik" which is a mix of economics and information systems as my third minor and never went to a single lecture
00:28 <+sadimusi> studying a few hours the night before the exam was enough
00:32 < Drainedsoul> plus there's a torrent of useless courses that you're made to take, that's the one that really gets me.
00:32 < Drainedsoul> I would rather the university just said "hey we need more money, give it to us", that would be more relatable
00:33 <+sadimusi> how high is your tuition?
00:33 <+sadimusi> you live in canada, right?
00:33 < Drainedsoul> $3050 for this term
00:33 < Drainedsoul> 4 courses
00:33 <+sadimusi> o.O
00:33 <+sadimusi> yeah that's a bit different here
00:34 <+sadimusi> I pay around $600 per term
00:34 < Drainedsoul> I paid substantially less at college, but it still wasn't $600 per term
00:34 < Drainedsoul> more like $1000-$1500, depending on the number of courses
00:35 <+sadimusi> the fun part is that a lot of US students come here for a term or two but still pay tuition back home
00:35 <+sadimusi> but of course that also works the other way around
00:35 < Drainedsoul> yeah I don't really get traveling to go to school, but then again I never bought into the whole student lifestyle thing
00:36 < Drainedsoul> school has always been a means to an end for me.  I always just wanted for it to be over.
00:36 <+sadimusi> it's quite the opposite for me
00:36 <+sadimusi> I really enjoy the student life
00:37 <+sadimusi> and I make enough money freelancing to sustain my lifestyle
00:37 < Drainedsoul> it's not even really about money for me.  It's more about the stress level.  I find homework etc. stressful.  Work just isn't the same way.
00:38 < Drainedsoul> in school I'm judged on ridiculous rubrics on skills that don't apply to my career goals, at work I'm judged on reasonable rubrics doing something I really enjoy.
00:38 < Drainedsoul> "if I fail chemistry I can't get my Software Engineering degree until I retake it"
00:38 < Drainedsoul> wut
00:40 <+sadimusi> I don't really enjoy the studying part of the student life either
00:40 <+sadimusi> it's more the not-working I enjoy :)
00:41 < Drainedsoul> I consider working/making money to be one of the most important things in life
00:41 < Drainedsoul> so
00:41 <+sadimusi> it changed a bit now, because I actually have lectures I enjoy again
00:41 <+sadimusi> any idea why you feel that way?
00:41 < Eviltechie> I'm writing an essay on education right now, because that totally relates to wiring up a tv studio. Right?
00:42 < Drainedsoul> haha
00:43 < Drainedsoul> I feel as though people have a duty to not just develop their skills, but to put them to productive use, not just for their own service, but for the service of others, through trade.
00:43 < Drainedsoul> Thusly the amount of money a person makes/has becomes a measure of their worth not just to themselves, but also to other people.
00:52 < Eviltechie> I'm a big fan of work because it tends to not follow you home
00:54 < coolcat> Draine, with that logic every pop star has a huge amount of worth to others... 
00:54 < Drainedsoul> coolcat: Well clearly they do.  Otherwise, why would people pay to see them?
00:55 < Drainedsoul> Eviltechie: That really depends on your job.  I agree that it doesn't to the extent that school does, however.  Despite the fact that I actually work from home.
00:55 < coolcat> Never payed to seen JB, Miley Cryus or Paris Hilton
00:56 < coolcat> better way to word it: 
00:56 < coolcat> They havent added anything to society
00:57 < dx> coolcat: nobody promised capitalism would be 100% fair
00:57 < coolcat> lol, capitalism is far from fair, just saying   money != worth to others
01:00 < dx> Eviltechie: that doesn't really work for freelancers... but it's also the same reason freelancing didn't work out for me.
01:01 < Drainedsoul> coolcat: In what way is money not equal to worth to others?  If someone produces something you value, you give them money up to that value.  If you value the thing less than the money, you don't give them the money
01:01 < Drainedsoul> money is the very definition of worth to others
01:01 < Eviltechie> dx: yup. when I worked this summer it was nice. "Oh, it's 5pm? Whelp, the rest can wait for tomorrow."
01:03 <+sadimusi> Eviltechie: my current experience freelancing is quite the opposite: I get a huge bonus if I finish a certain project until next saturday
01:03 < coolcat> Because if I found 1 billion dollars on the ground, im not suddenly worth something to people 
01:03 <+sadimusi> Eviltechie: so yeah, sometimes working 9-5 sounds great as well
01:03 < dx> coolcat: you're definitely worth a lot as a client for whoever you're going to spend/invest it on :D
01:04 < Eviltechie> sadimusi: I could see having a differnt attitude if I was more invested in it.
01:04 < Eviltechie> Writing essays? I would not take those home with me? Wiring a tv studio? I would probably stay until late at night.
01:05 < coolcat> Sure, but spending isnt the same as having
01:05 < coolcat> eh,brb
01:17 <+sadimusi> Drainedsoul: just popped up on ycombinator: http://www.lifestyleupdated.com/2013/08/05/eliminating-w4w-work-for-works-sake-and-an-announcement/
01:20 < Drainedsoul> sadimusi: I definitely don't work for work's sake, otherwise I might enjoy churning out these assignments :P
01:25 < dx> "Stop associating your life with your work" :(
01:26 < dx> this post is messing with my brain
01:29 < Drainedsoul> I have a couple questions about chunks with respect to the client, if anyone is willing to try and answer
01:29 < Drainedsoul> I know, talking about Minecraft, how droll
01:29 <+sadimusi> :)
01:31 < Drainedsoul> The vanilla server seems to be able to send the player a 15x15 segment of the world pretty easily.  When I leave more than 12x12 on the client I crash the client.  Does that have something to do with null chunks, or am I just doing it wrong
01:32  * sadimusi has no idea and is busy watching BAHFest
01:43 < Eviltechie> We recently discovered that an attacker illegally entered our network and may have obtained access to your Adobe ID and encrypted password.
01:43 < Eviltechie> Thanks Adobe!
01:48 < Drainedsoul> :P
02:02 < Eviltechie> I don't even creative cloud
02:17 < Not-003> [fNbt] fragmer pushed 6 commits to master [+1/-0/±14] http://git.io/B5kuqg
02:17 < Not-003> [fNbt] fragmer 8778a33 - Fixed NbtReader.ToString() not respecting NbtTag.DefaultIndentString, and added a ToString(bool,string) overload to allow specifying custom indentation.
02:17 < Not-003> [fNbt] fragmer 35249fc - Got rid of some redundant code (~50 LoC) in NbtFile.
02:17 < Not-003> [fNbt] fragmer d541dc9 - Eliminated the possibility of adding a Compound tag to itself. It's still theoretically possible to make an inheritance loop (add child tag to parent tag), but checking for that would be rather expensive.
02:17 < Not-003> [fNbt] fragmer 11561bb - Fixed NbtString value defaulting to null, instead of an empty string.
02:17 < Not-003> [fNbt] fragmer d5e7bac - Minor code cleanup in NbtList and NbtTag; behavior unaffected.
02:17 < Not-003> [fNbt] fragmer 3c564ce - Expanded unit test coverage to 91%. Probably going to stop here for now -- these unit tests are getting more and more obscure and redundant.
03:39 < Not-003> [fNbt] fragmer pushed 3 commits to master [+0/-0/±3] http://git.io/D_7Lzg
03:39 < Not-003> [fNbt] fragmer 3ed7863 - Updated the changelog
03:39 < Not-003> [fNbt] fragmer a965b49 - Updated Doxygen to 1.8.5
03:39 < Not-003> [fNbt] fragmer 4d45701 - Updated the readme. And with this, release 0.5.1 is complete!
03:41 < Not-003> [fNbt] fragmer tagged 4d45701 as v0.5.1 http://git.io/H2JRiA
05:18 < Not-003> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn tagged 554912f as 1.4.6 http://git.io/IJ5QsA
05:20 < Not-003> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/4b-j8Q
05:20 < Not-003> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn dbb1bb2 - Modify RELEASE build configuration
05:23 < Not-003> [SMProxy] SirCmpwn tagged dbb1bb2 as 1.6.4 http://git.io/PKX6kQ
12:13 < Aquaticus> Drainedsoul: you around?
14:48 < Drainedsoul> Aquaticus: I am now
18:14 < Not-003> [fNbt] fragmer pushed 5 commits to master [+2/-0/±11] http://git.io/SNKBzA
18:14 < Not-003> [fNbt] fragmer a6977f0 - Upped .NET framework requirements from 2.0 to 3.5
18:14 < Not-003> [fNbt] fragmer 0c0ec87 - Minor code cleanup in NbtBinaryWriter/NbtReader/NbtReaderNode
18:14 < Not-003> [fNbt] fragmer 5a88dcd - Initial commit of NbtWriter class, for high-performance writing of NBT data to streams.
18:14 < Not-003> [fNbt] fragmer b163c47 - Minor optimization in NbtBinaryReader and NbtBinaryWriter
18:14 < Not-003> [fNbt] fragmer 7fdfa01 - Sped up NbtWriter significantly by removing duplicate-tag-name checks. I'm shifting that responsibility to the API user.
18:52 < Grum> Time to break open packets :P
18:53 < Grum> we now have 5 packets with id '0x00' \o/
18:56 < Krenair> wat? 5?
18:57 < eddyb> Grum: sub-ids or just a temporary code state during the rewrite?
18:58 < Grum> no real ids
18:58 < Grum> as real as the ids are now :)
18:58 < eddyb> so the latter, I guess
18:58 < Grum> no
18:59 < Grum> this is our end-state
18:59 < Grum> besides going over each packet and stripping what is not needed in it
18:59 < eddyb> so how do you differentiate between the 5 packets?
18:59 < Grum> you dont :P
18:59  * eddyb confused
19:00 < Grum> it depends on what side you are on, server or client
19:00 < Grum> it depends on the current 'state' of the protocol
19:00 < Grum> sofar we have 3 out of 5 states
19:00 < Grum> hmm or 3 out of 4 we'll see
19:00 < Grum> and each of them has a packetid 0 :p
19:01 < eddyb> ah, I thought of state, but you said "you dont" instead of "connection state"
19:01 < Grum> for a total unique packets of: 1+68+27+2+2
19:01 < Grum> well you said 'temporary code state' -- its not temporary
19:01 < Grum> this is what we planned to use
19:02 < eddyb> yeah, I got that, but you didn't outright say states when I asked how you differentiate. nevermind, I got it now anyway :)
19:03 < Grum> basically we have a 'protocol' for each state
19:03 < Grum> and some packets cause transitions between states
19:03 < eddyb> yeah, that's cool :D
19:04 < Grum> sofar we have: handshake -> login -> game
19:04 < eddyb> you had unencrypted/encrypted before, but same protocol, right?
19:04 < Grum> that is initiated by 'login' now
19:04 < Grum> login does the whole handshaking
19:05 < Grum> and is .... 4 packets now
19:05 < eddyb> do packets contain a length field now?
19:06 < Grum> no
19:06 < Grum> they are prefixed with a length
19:06 < eddyb> that's what I was asking, I guess :P
19:07 < Grum> yeah but you suggested: type, len, data
19:07 < Grum> but its: len, type, data
19:07 < Grum> and the len includes the 'type'-len
19:07 < Grum> so chunking the data is going be super trivial
19:08 < eddyb> right...
19:08 < Grum> besides the fact we use VarInt for the len ;)
19:08 < Grum> which will probably trip some people up ;)
19:08 < eddyb> Grum: separating network code from parsing code, woo :D
19:08 < Grum> yeah we actually needed ;)
19:08 < Grum> so we just added it ;)
19:09 < eddyb> a multibyte length encoding was what I would use, too. I've seen it in WoW
19:47 < Sehales> sadimusi: could you resend me the link to the serverencryption java class which you have sent me yesterday?
19:51 < Grum> boo i broke it ;(
19:51 < eddyb> Grum: it's okay
19:52 < Grum> i cant respawn anymore :P
19:52 < eddyb> Grum: it's not like you're running this on "production" servers
19:52 < Grum> not yet ;)
19:56 <+sadimusi> Sehales: https://github.com/SimpleServer/SimpleServer/blob/master/src/simpleserver/stream/Encryption.java
19:57 < Grum> you do not actually have to use bouncycastle
19:57 < Grum> all the needed libs are in java6
19:57 <+sadimusi> yeah, but it makes things a bit easier
19:57 < Grum> not really
19:58 < Sehales> that sounds interesting without the bouncycastle lib
19:58 < Sehales> but I didn't ever used/worked with encryption in java...
19:59 < Grum> neither did i before i implemented it for minecraft! /me hides
19:59 < Sehales> you have written the encryption stuff without the knowledge for it before? lol
20:00 <+sadimusi> that's why they had to rewrite it twice ;)
20:00 < Grum> and everyone is using it!
20:00 < Grum> hehe we just changed ciphers tbh :P
20:00 < Grum> the basic was ok ;)
20:00 < Sehales> you guys at mojang are funny 
20:00 <+sadimusi> especially funny was the first cipher change
20:00 < Sehales> hey lets do that, I don't know how, but hey when it fails I will do it again :D
20:00 < Grum> yeah hehe
20:00 <+sadimusi> the exact same exploit script still worked :D
20:01 < Grum> rc4->...->aes :D
20:01 < Grum> i dont even know what i used between
20:01 < Grum> mhac256 orso? :/
20:01 < Sehales> okay that IS funny
20:01 < Grum> hmac even
20:01 <+sadimusi> I might have written it into my gist back then
20:01 < Grum> to be fair, i knew rc4 was broken
20:01 <+sadimusi> it was HC-256
20:01 < Grum> but meh, working > proper :P
20:02 < Grum> close :p
20:02 < Sehales> shouldn*t you think about the circumstance that another person knows more about your work than yourself?... :P
20:02 < Grum> Sehales: not sure how that is a problem
20:02 < Grum> that is how one learns not?
20:03 < Sehales> I would hate it when another person knows my own code better than myself...
20:03 < Grum> I guess if you are really unsure about yourself you might have issue with it
20:04 < Grum> that is not what happened, people just found something exploitable in code that was put out to have that done with
20:04 < Sehales> no I meant that you don't know what you have used...
20:04 < Sehales> doesn't matter at all
20:05 < Grum> no i just cannot remember the exact name
20:05 < Grum> it was a rather obscure thing
20:05 < Grum> not at all mainstream
20:05 <+sadimusi> it really doesn't matter; it was only in there for a week
20:05 < Sehales> it's all fine....
20:05 <+sadimusi> and was probably supposed to be a quick fix
20:05 <+sadimusi> Grum: are you also involved with the yggdrasil backend?
20:05 < Grum> sadimusi: beyond the original going over the 'need'-specwise, no
20:05 < Grum> i preferred another solution, we might get that somewhere
20:06 <+sadimusi> I'll have to bug dinnerbro about it then
20:06 < Grum> about what?
20:06 < Grum> he also didn't write it
20:06 <+sadimusi> but he is the one usually handling my bug reports
20:07 < Grum> oh you mean the invalid ones? :D
20:07 <+sadimusi> but he closed this one a bit prematurely https://mojang.atlassian.net/browse/MCL-1513
20:07 <+sadimusi> he fixed the first one and closed this one
20:08 <+sadimusi> I'm just not sure if I'm even supposed to send the agent field anymore
20:08 <+sadimusi> it used to work fine, but now it invalidates all my access tokens whenever I use it
20:12 < Sehales> grum couldn't you copy the minecraft client to encrypted server connection stuff and send it to me? ;) maybe I am too stupid for that, but I do not understand how that works/what to do
20:13 < Grum> Sehales: nope
20:13 < Sehales> yes I know :(
20:18 <+sadimusi> Sehales: maybe you would be better off just using a library like craft.net
20:19 < Sehales> as I said yesterday I am doing that in Java right now
20:19 < Sehales> because I want to understand what is going on
20:19 < Sehales> I know that I can just use a library
20:20 < Sehales> but then I learned not as many as I would learn when I am doing it on my own
20:21 < Sehales> or is that the wrong way?
20:21 < Drainedsoul> I don't see why binding state to packet parsing is necessary, other than to add another layer of complexity/coupling.
20:22 <+sadimusi> Sehales: to me it sounds like you aren't experienced enough to write it on your own
20:22 < Grum> Drainedsoul: for our simplicity?
20:23 < Grum> many packets only apply in certain 'stages' of the connection
20:23 < Grum> so we've made that split
20:24 < Sehales> could be true, but that is the sense of the application I want to write, just trying to get on my knowledge/experience limit and trying to get it work, after that I can say to myself: nice job, next challenge
20:24 < Grum> code it offline-mode, no encryption ;)
20:25 < Grum> well, not in the new version at least ;)
20:27 < Drainedsoul> Sehales: If you're writing a program, and don't mind learning along the way, I don't see why everyone's discouraging you.  However, if you want to just get something done, you'd be better off using a library
20:27 < Drainedsoul> people around here are trigger happy on telling people to use libraries though, so...-
20:28 < Grum> all libraries will have to change drastically though :)
20:28 < Grum> time to make all fields private in all packets
20:28 < Drainedsoul> that depends what the libraries do and how they're designed
20:29 < Drainedsoul> there's this thing called "loose coupling", not sure if you guys have heard of it...
20:29 <+sadimusi> that's why I'm not touching any of my minecraft projects until I've seen those changes :)
20:29 < Grum> sadimusi: which you wont until 1.7 releases
20:29 <+sadimusi> no snapshots?
20:29 < Grum> not finished until then ofc
20:30 < Sehales> btw, is it true that the new chat format isn't capable of having different parts of a message in different colors?
20:30 < Grum> on
20:30 < Dinnerbone> No it is not true.
20:30 < Grum> *no
20:30 < eddyb> it just works differently
20:30 < Dinnerbone> It was specifically designed to do exactly that without the horrible state keeping of the current system
20:30 < eddyb> (and much, much, better)
20:31 < Grum> if someone claims that they are ... failures at claiming things
20:31 < eddyb> Drainedsoul: what's "loose coupling" supposed to do?
20:31 < eddyb> s/do/be
20:32 < Drainedsoul> it means not tying things together so that they depend on implementation details of other things, in short
20:32 < Drainedsoul> as opposed to tight coupling, which is the opposite
20:33 < eddyb> so you were probably referring to flexible libraries which can be pipelined into larger things
20:33 < Drainedsoul> as I said, it depends on what the library does
20:42 < Grum> (or how you use it ;D)
21:15 <+Amaranth> iirc the client originally had issues dealing with styles in the new format
21:15 <+Amaranth> So that might be what Sehales heard
21:17 < Sehales> could be possible, someone said to me that he has read that the new format is only supporting one-color-messages
21:18 <+sadimusi> there was a bug in it that caused this, but it was fixed long ago
22:10 < Sehales> yay I got it!
22:11 < Sehales> okay no I can go to sleep.... :D have a nice day/night you all
22:13 < Drainedsoul> I know that feeling altogether too well...
--- Day changed mar. oct. 08 2013
00:54 < Not-003> [MCPP] RobertLeahy pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/kmxqmQ
00:54 < Not-003> [MCPP] RobertLeahy 73634b5 - Whisper Refactor
03:54 < dx> my terminal emulator sometimes sends the wrong control codes and switches my irc client to this channel. but always this channel. ¯\(°_o)/¯
03:56 < Eviltechie> dx: do you even teletype bro
03:56 < dx> Eviltechie: i only pseudo teletype :(
04:30 < Not-003> [fNbt] fragmer pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/LcNshg
04:30 < Not-003> [fNbt] fragmer 50082df - Fixed NbtReader not reading lists-of-compound-tags properly. Added a unit test for this specific case.
07:11 < Not-003> [MCPP] RobertLeahy pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±3] http://git.io/yLU5jA
07:11 < Not-003> [MCPP] RobertLeahy b56c36d - ClientList Search
14:14 < Grum> Time to see if i can make some hackwards compatibility for the old mc protocol server status queries :/
14:15 < eddyb> Grum: weren't they using top IDs?
14:15 < Grum> top ids?
14:16 < eddyb> max byte value
14:16  * eddyb thinks that can be abused as a special variable length encoding case
14:16 < Grum> it is also the start of a valid packet
14:16 < Grum> 0xFE, 0x01 = 0xFF bytes to read >.>
14:17 < eddyb> well, require a longer encoding for the valid packet :P
14:18 < eddyb> (make some stress tests with stats to determine the impact)
14:18 < eddyb> Grum: but I'm no expert in anything, giving my opinion because I care :))
14:18 < Grum> you are just saying random things
14:21 < iBotPeaches> orange green toaster grass sun snow
14:21 < Grum> iBotPeaches: implemented, thanks
14:21 < iBotPeaches> :)
14:53 < eddyb> Grum: they weren't random in my head :(
19:21 < Grum> pfft actually coded proper fallback code for old clients talking to the new server
19:21 < Dinnerbone> Now do it the other way around!
19:21 < Dinnerbone> Slacker
19:22 <+sadimusi> Grum: <3
19:22 < Grum>             ctx.pipeline().firstContext().writeAndFlush(out).addListener(ChannelFutureListener.CLOSE); <-- that just looks jummy
19:24 < Grum> i even tested it with 1.3, 1.4 and 1.6! :D
19:24 < Grum> now just 1.7 >.> .... that we didnt finish yet
19:24 < Grum> or did you already Dinnerbone? :D
19:24 < Grum> STOP SLACKING ALREADY!
19:24 < Dinnerbone> Status + pinging works
19:24 < Dinnerbone> Just not backcompat yet but since you're on a roll I thought you could tackle that
19:26 < Grum> yeah
19:26 < Grum> just building a commit for that
19:26 < Grum> well for the server side 
19:27 < Grum> oh i should not forget to remove that ServerboundRespawnPacket :P
19:28 < Grum> that is just silly :(
19:48 < Grum> allthemstuffpushed
19:48 < Grum> going for another cleanup round
19:50 < Vector> oh yay, mojang dev talk
19:51 < Vector> and how did i connect to this network twice...
19:54 < Not-003> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn pushed 5 commits to master [+3/-0/±174] http://git.io/prKilg
19:54 < Not-003> [Craft.Net] owen2 4212140 - Fixed regionFile never getting opened.
19:54 < Not-003> [Craft.Net] owen2 edbde9b - Pretending to be version 1.6.4
19:54 < Not-003> [Craft.Net] owen2 6810430 - Merge branch 'master' of github.com:owen2/Craft.Net into HEAD
19:54 < Not-003> [Craft.Net] owen2 345cacd - Deleted commented code
19:54 < Not-003> [Craft.Net] SirCmpwn a93b3c7 - Merge pull request #190 from owen2/master Fixing Saves
20:02 < Not-003> [fCraft] fragmer * r2230 2 files : Updated IsoCat tileset to include CPE CustomBlocks 1 (thanks AndrewPH)
20:07 <+AndrewPH> o/
21:36 < dividuum> sadimusi, I just added another way to reproduce my login problem to https://mojang.atlassian.net/browse/MCL-1513
21:38 <+sadimusi> great
21:38 <+sadimusi> if there was only a way to reopen it
21:38 <+sadimusi> guess we just have to keep bugging Dinnerbone about it ;)
21:38 < Dinnerbone> If only there were some way that the relevant people got emailed every time you comment on it, so that they didn't need to be bugged on other mediums too.
21:39 <+sadimusi> well, that email didn't seem to help much
21:40 < Dinnerbone> No? It's been a whole 6 minutes since it was sent.
21:40 <+sadimusi> dividuum: also not that I wrote most of http://wiki.vg/Authentication, so you can'r really rely on it
21:40 < Dinnerbone> In that time I've been doing other non-work things, as it's not work time.
21:40 < Dinnerbone> In addition to replying on here justifying about why it's not opened yet :)
21:40 <+sadimusi> I was referring to my comment which I posted about two weeks ago
21:42 <+sadimusi> but don't take that as criticism, I know that the tracker is overflowing
21:52 < Dinnerbone> sadimusi, dividuum: https://gist.github.com/Dinnerbone/28a0cf7ace5d257dd14f
21:53 <+sadimusi> Dinnerbone: where did that '"requestUser":true' come from?
21:53 <+sadimusi> maybe that's the issue
21:53 < Dinnerbone> It's unrelated to the request
21:54 < Dinnerbone> Just stuff authlib adds
21:54 < Dinnerbone> I can remove it and test again
21:54 < Dinnerbone> I'm only doing this through code because I made this library for a reason and I've tried to reproduce this manually too many times with no success
21:56 < Dinnerbone> And for the record: Agent is NOT optional if you want to actually play a game.
21:56 < Dinnerbone> Yes, you can log in without it. And yes, it won't give you any profiles back. That is completely intentional.
21:58 < Dinnerbone> It is possible you're running into the maximum login count - you can only be logged into one game profile on so many different clients. Each new one will log out the oldest.
21:58 < Dinnerbone> That, too, is intentional. The limit is quite high.
21:59 < Dinnerbone> Please do go fetch authlib and write some code to reproduce it there, or your own entirely, and attach it to the ticket for us to run
21:59 <+sadimusi> I tried to reproduce it by copying the data from your log and I still get the same error
22:00 <+sadimusi> I want to eliminate the possibility that my library is at fault, that's why I used curl so far
22:01 <+sadimusi> but I guess I could use authlib
22:01 < Dinnerbone> Authlib is completely javadoc'd and up and you can guarantee that it works as both our launcher & the game itself uses it
22:01 < Dinnerbone> I just ran this code lots of times and no failures
22:02 <+sadimusi> is it available anywhere apart from the launcher jar?
22:02 < Dinnerbone> Played the latest snapshots with our launcher recently?
22:02 <+sadimusi> no
22:02 < dividuum> Thanks for your feedback Dinnerbone. I'll have a look at authlib
22:02 < Dinnerbone> Ok
22:02 < Dinnerbone> Do you know how to get libraries that the game versions ask for?
22:03 <+sadimusi> yes
22:03 <+sadimusi> I wrote most of the documentation about it
22:03 <+sadimusi> I'll get it from there then
22:03 < Dinnerbone> Then you can find authlib there
22:03 < Dinnerbone> You also have sources available, it's in disguise of a maven repo
--- Log closed mar. oct. 08 23:07:00 2013
--- Log opened mar. oct. 08 23:07:07 2013
23:07 -!- Irssi: #mcdevs: Total of 113 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 8 voices, 104 normal]
23:10 -!- Irssi: Join to #mcdevs was synced in 190 secs
23:25 < dividuum> Dinnerbone, i used authlib and got your snippet to run. I get an exception: com.mojang.authlib.exceptions.InvalidCredentialsException: Invalid token.
23:26 < dividuum> (i posted my modified source and the output of a run as a response to the gist)
23:27 < Dinnerbone> Does it happen 100% of the time?
23:29 < dividuum> let me try 10 times
23:29 <+sadimusi> Dinnerbone: for me your snippet worked fine, I also managed to log in again with the received token (which your library makes really difficult)
23:30 < Dinnerbone> You just save the credentials (the map) and load them up again in the future
23:31 < dividuum> tried 10 times. zero success
23:31 < Dinnerbone> The account you are testing; does it have a minecraft profile?
23:31 < dividuum> i converted to a mojang account a while ago
23:32 < dividuum> i login with my email address
23:33 < Dinnerbone> So that's most likely a yes?
23:33 < dividuum> Yeah. I registered, when there was only minecraft
23:33 < dividuum> and later converted, because i also own Cobalt
23:35 < Dinnerbone> Please PM me your user UUID (authlib: auth1.getUserID()), game profile ID + name (auth1.getSelectedProfile()) and username you're logging in with
23:35 < dividuum> ok. one moment
--- Day changed mer. oct. 09 2013
00:32 < Not-003> [fNbt] fragmer pushed 4 commits to master [+1/-0/±11] http://git.io/fTreQg
00:32 < Not-003> [fNbt] fragmer d10374f - Removed NbtCompound.ToArray and ToArray.ToNameArray methods, which are no longer needed with .MET 3.5 (use NbtCompound.Tags.ToArray() and NbtCompound.Names.ToArray() instead).
00:32 < Not-003> [fNbt] fragmer c3fa5c2 - Cleaned up and updated NbtCompound unit tests.
00:32 < Not-003> [fNbt] fragmer 8f20ecb - Improved documentation and organization of unit tests.
00:32 < Not-003> [fNbt] fragmer bbc2dbb - Added comprehensive unit tests for NbtWriter.
01:41 < mrapple> hey, who usually updates burger?
01:42 < mrapple> (b.wiki.vg that is)
01:42 < mrapple> i generated some local copies for myself, but i don't know how to update that site
01:43 <+sadimusi> I do, but burger's currently pretty broken
01:44 < mrapple> the packets work! hehe
01:44 <+sadimusi> wait for the next snapshot and they won't
01:44 < dx> \o/
01:44 < mrapple> i know, that's why i'm trying to figure this out now
01:45 <+sadimusi> there's a lot being refactored right now and I'm waiting for those updates before touching burger
01:45 < mrapple> so then burger can be updated when the new snapshot drops
01:45 < mrapple> fair enough, i'll probably just have to hack something together for 13w41 when it drops
01:45 <+sadimusi> you'll have to rewrite your entire protocol parser anyway
01:46 < mrapple> i know ;(
01:46 < mrapple> bungeecord uses netty so that part will be easy, but hacking a protocol update for 13w41 will not be
01:46 < mrapple> (on the MC side, at least)
01:47 <+sadimusi> bungee will also need some additional logic
01:47 <+sadimusi> like keeping track of protocol state
01:47 < mrapple> protocol state?
01:48 <+sadimusi> afaik there are currently three phases: handshake, login and playing
01:48 < mrapple> that sounds correct
01:48 <+sadimusi> each phase has two distinct protocols, one for each direction
01:49 <+sadimusi> so you have to keep track what state a connection is in
01:49 < mrapple> sounds like i've got a lot of work ahead of me
01:50 <+sadimusi> everyone in here has
01:50 <+sadimusi> at least the pinging will be backwards compatible
01:50 < dx> sadimusi: it's confirmed that it will?
01:50 <+sadimusi> [19:21:06] Gr_m: pfft actually coded proper fallback code for old clients talking to the new server
01:51 < dx> sounds good
01:51 <+sadimusi> it's supposed to work with all versions >= 1.3
01:51 < mrapple> fantastic
01:52 < mrapple> i should probably download wireshark now
01:52 < mrapple> i've got a feeling i'm going to need it
01:52 <+sadimusi> you're probably better off with a decompiler
01:52 < mrapple> a combination of both i'm guessing
01:52 < dx> a decompiler and a lot of patience
01:52 < mrapple> i suppose with the netty code not being obfuscated
01:53 <+sadimusi> we don't know if that will be the case
01:53 < mrapple> it will be pretty easy
01:53 <+sadimusi> bc for example is obfuscated
01:54 < mrapple> ?
01:54 <+sadimusi> bouncycastle
01:58 < dx> when is the snapshot going to be released? is it "when it's ready" or is it like every other snapshot? (thursdays it was, right?)
02:00 < Dinnerbone> When we feel comfortable releasing the new code.
02:00 < dx> cool
02:01 < dx> thanks dinnerbro, wasn't actually expecting you to appear out of nowhere and answer :D
02:09 < mrapple> right, wasn't that a library before the new json launcher system?
02:10 < mrapple> i feel like all new libraries have just been libraries and not actually obfuscated
02:10 < Dinnerbone> mrapple: Just because bungee uses netty doesn't mean that will make any of this easier. Their implementation and ours are vastly different.
02:11  * Dinnerbone just read up
02:11 < mrapple> if we're using the same API, won't it make it a bit easier? ;o
02:12 < mrapple> i'm really excited to see the new networking code
02:13 < mrapple> Dinnerbone: will netty be un-obfuscated? <3
02:13 < mrapple> also not obfuscating the authlib was lovely as well, thank you
02:14 < Dinnerbone> We do not obfuscate any libraries that we use
02:16 < mrapple> hm i thought bc was as sadimusi mentioned, but it appears not
02:17 <+sadimusi> it used to be, maybe that changed
02:17 <+sadimusi> it wasn't a separate library either, it was included in the minecraft jar
02:17 < mrapple> it still is included
02:18 < mrapple> but it appears unobfuscated
02:18 <+sadimusi> that's also nice
02:18  * Dinnerbone waddles off to bed
02:18 <+sadimusi> looks like they just tweaked their proguard config a bit
02:18 <+sadimusi> good night
02:20 < mrapple> night db
06:11 < Grum> 06:05:28 <+sadimusi> [01:52:10] it's supposed to work with all versions >= 1.3  <-- even < 1.3
06:12 < Grum> 06:05:28 <+sadimusi> [01:53:53] bc for example is obfuscated  <-- stopped using it
06:14 < dx> rip bc
06:15 < Grum> 06:05:30 <+sadimusi> [02:18:58] looks like they just tweaked their proguard config a bit  <-- ages ago, we stopped obfuscating libraries with 1.6
06:15 < Grum> iirc we do not even strip them
06:15 < dx> wait, stopped using the obfuscation for bc, or stopped using bc completely?
06:15 < Grum> in combination with my last line you can draw that conclusion yourself :D
06:16 < dx> dammit
06:16 < Grum> (so completely removed)
06:17 < dx> oh okay thanks, i'm not good at this ``logic'' thing
06:17 < Grum> we use .5mb less libraries now yay >.>
06:17 < Grum> -bouncycastle+netty :p
06:20 < SinZ> nice
07:54 <+Amaranth> Grum: To be fair though most of bouncycastle was getting stripped out and you were shipping nothing
07:54 <+Amaranth> Before you stopped doing that
07:55 <+Amaranth> There was like 1 file with actual code in it and the rest was like half a dozen tiny interfaces and wrappers
08:56 < Grum> Amaranth: yeah, but its saner to not pillage libs
08:58 < Grum> iirc for the server we ship intact shaded libs now
15:16 < barneygale> Dinnerbone: will the GS4 query listener be getting some netty lovin'?
15:51 < Dinnerbone> md_5: You here? Having a ping issue with some servers, the only thing in common is bungee.
15:51 < Dinnerbone> barneygale: Maybe not right now but it will have (so much to do still)
15:52 < barneygale> No problem, just wondering
15:54 < barneygale> I think bungee+spigot can be configured to send a Plugin Message with the client's real IP address
15:54 < barneygale> Not sure if that's useful information :P
16:01 < Dinnerbone> We figured it out. Bungee doesn't support the 1.6 style pinging
16:02 < Dinnerbone> And they don't have proper error handling on it, so they keep reading the extra data as more packets (I think)
16:12 < Jckf_> What are the effects of this?
16:13 <+sadimusi> Dinnerbone: what exactly are you sending? I think I'm using the 1.6 style ping and it work well on all server versions http://d.pr/n/2INT
16:13 < Dinnerbone> I compared my output to that of 1.6.4 and it's 100% identical save for the fact that 1.6.4 split each byte into its own frame
16:14 < Dinnerbone> So it must be an issue there
16:14 < Dinnerbone> It works on any server except bungee. One server with modified pinging in bungee works
16:15 <+sadimusi> with 1.6 style pinging you mean the version with the plugin message? (0xfe01fa...)
16:16 < Dinnerbone> Yes
16:16 < Dinnerbone> I can get the full dump, moment
16:18 < Dinnerbone> FE 01 FA 00 0B 00 4D 00 43 00 7C 00 50 00 69 00 6E 00 67 00 48 00 6F 00 73 00 74 00 23 4E 00 0E 00 6D 00 63 00 2E 00 68 00 79 00 70 00 69 00 78 00 65 00 6C 00 2E 00 6E 00 65 00 74 00 00 63 DD
16:18 < Dinnerbone> That's to mc.hypixel.net
16:18 < Dinnerbone> It's 100% identical payload as in 1.6.4
16:19 < Dinnerbone> But buffered up and sent together
16:19 <+sadimusi> and does it work with hypixel?
16:19 < Dinnerbone> 1.6.4 makes the request and receives data successfully, my 1.7 code does not
16:20 < Dinnerbone> I think it's hitting some race condition in bungee or they're not expecting all the data at once or something; but it's perfectly valid data and they should be supporting this
16:21 < Dinnerbone> Sending just: FE 01 works
16:21 <+sadimusi> I send all the data at once as well and it works fine with hypixel
16:21 <+sadimusi> http://minecraftservers.org/server/92447
16:21 < Dinnerbone> So you send it all in one frame?
16:22 <+sadimusi> I create a string (=bytearray) with the complete payload and then send that
16:22 <+sadimusi> so I assume it's a single frame
16:23 < eddyb> it might not be, depending on your network framework
16:24 <+sadimusi> I just really don't expect bungee to act up when getting everything in one frame
16:24 <+sadimusi> but maybe you're right
16:25 < Grum> sadimusi: you do not run that site right?
16:25 <+sadimusi> I do
16:25 <+ammar2> he does :D
16:25 < Dinnerbone> It works with any other server, including the hive which use bungee but custom ping handling
16:25 < Grum> make sure you leave a bag of cash on our doorstep whenever you get outside of the house; ktxbye
16:25 <+sadimusi> Grum: I run it, but don't own it
16:26 < Grum> who owns it?
16:26 <+sadimusi> act4
16:26 <+sadimusi> he is in here sometimes
16:26 <+ammar2> Dinnerbone: so it works fine on hivemc who use bungee but not on hypixel?
16:26 < Dinnerbone> Yes
16:26 <+ammar2> perhaps hypixel is using an outdated bungee build
16:26 < Dinnerbone> Nor octc
16:27 < Grum> sadimusi: meh now i cannot properly rage
16:27 <+ammar2> oh then its probably broken on the latest build then, I'll check it out
16:27 < eddyb> Grum: what's wrong?
16:27 <+ammar2> Dinnerbone: could you grab the latest bungee off ci.md-5.net and see if it works on there?
16:27 < Grum> eddyb: besides illegal activities and squeezing money from minecraft-users, nothing
16:28 < Grum> ammar2: quite sure its more work than just 'running the jar' to setup? ;D
16:28 <+sadimusi> Grum: what about it do you feel is illegal?
16:28 < eddyb> Grum: does it have ads?
16:28 < Dinnerbone> Does it run out of the box/will it take me more than 5 seconds?
16:28 <+ammar2> Grum: nope, just run the jar
16:28 < Grum> sadimusi: running a commercial site with minecraft in the name :)
16:28 <+ammar2> and change the port in the config I guess
16:28 <+ammar2> it defaults to 25577 or something
16:28 < Dinnerbone> Ok let's see
16:33 < Dinnerbone> Ok! So it seems that latest bungee almost works
16:33 < Dinnerbone> But we hit throttle
16:34 < Dinnerbone> 1.7 sends the new ping and fallbacks to an old ping if they don't reply
16:34 < Dinnerbone> Bungee flat out ignores the second one by the looks of it
16:34 < Dinnerbone> But the ping handling works if I skip straight to that
16:35 <+ammar2> Dinnerbone: right, it just doesn't accept the connection. The default value of the throttle is 4 seconds btw
16:35 < Dinnerbone> Okay
16:36 < Dinnerbone> So whilst it seems that octo and hypixel are running an old bungee, this still won't work because of that :D
16:36 < Dinnerbone> octc*
16:37 <+ammar2> Dinnerbone: instead of falling back to the old ping, why not just say the server is <1.6.4 and show an outdated thingy...it'll be about the same experience for the end user right?
16:37 < Dinnerbone> Except that we don't know that the server is actually up...
16:37 < Dinnerbone> Or exists
16:38 < Grum> yeah that is rather stupid to say hehehe
16:38 <+ammar2> accepts tcp connection => up, replies to new ping => joinable
16:38 < Grum> we could install magic:ball:0xFF from maven
16:38 < Grum> ammar2: poor webservers responding as 'out of date server'
16:38 < Dinnerbone> ^ :SD
16:38 < Dinnerbone> :D
16:39 <+ammar2> lawd
16:39 <+ammar2> well umm
16:39 <+sadimusi> why not just send the old ping? I thought the new server responds to it
16:39 < Grum> it working for vanilla
16:39 < Grum> sadimusi: fuck you ;)
16:39 <+sadimusi> :D
16:39 < Grum> on that note i'm going to add a 30 second delay befor eit answers
16:40 < Grum> oh sorry
16:40 < Grum> 299second delay
16:40 < Grum> right upto the normal TCP timeout
16:40 <+sadimusi> :P
16:41 <+ammar2> Grum: nah, send every single byte of the string with a 299sec delay in between
16:41 <+ammar2> make the pinger work for it
16:41 < Grum> too fast
16:41 < Grum> we'll mail it
16:41 < Grum> via 100 relays that all hold the mail for 7 days
16:41 < eddyb> via carrier pigeons
16:42 < Jckf> Someone proposed a carrier pidgeon layer at my work, and some interns actually implemented it
16:42 < Jckf> Not even kidding
16:43 < Grum> they just googled the RFC?
16:43 < Grum> http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1149.txt
16:44 < eddyb> http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2549
16:44 < Jckf> There we go :) We're an ISP, so we have to be versatile
16:44 < eddyb> ahahaha
16:45 < eddyb> lol this is recent: http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6214
16:45 < Jckf> The guys in Sweden might have heard of us. We do a lot of stuff in coop with SUNET
16:46 < Grum> sunet, that is old :P
16:46 < Jckf> We're UNINETT =)
16:46 < Grum> DOUBLET
16:47 < Jckf> And together with Finland and Denmark, we form NORDUNET
16:47 < eddyb> NORDNET sounds pretty good, actually
16:47 < Jckf> The group owns nordu.net, which is the world's oldest domain name
16:48 < Jckf> Yay for us =P
16:49 < eddyb> 100Gbps o_O. and I was proud to have 100Mbps (it's still better than what residential internet in some western countries)
16:54 <+sadimusi> dammit, just got rickroll'd by my design studio >.< http://d.pr/i/6SXK
20:16 < mrapple> Dinnerbone: is the issue we're running an outdated bungee or does something in the current bungee need to change?
20:17 < mrapple> or is this the fix https://github.com/SpigotMC/BungeeCord/commit/6c14f401082bf837d4b2a3500c4ec07fe0ab8f4f
21:16 < Dinnerbone> mrapple: Both I think
22:18 <+md_5> <Dinnerbone> md_5: You here? Having a ping issue with some servers, the only thing in common is bungee.
22:18 <+md_5> Dinnerbone hi!
22:21 < Dinnerbone> Hi md_5. So we concluded that it likely works in latest bungee except for the rate limiting that you have
22:22 <+md_5> Dinnerbone so you are sending dual ping packets
22:22 < Dinnerbone> Yes
22:22 <+md_5> thats sad :(
22:22 < Dinnerbone> There is absolutely no way to not do that
22:22 <+md_5> okey I'll just remove the rate limit
22:22 < Dinnerbone> We will send 1 packet of the new format, and then if it fails we will send legacy
22:22 <+md_5> its from when a guy threatened to botnet a tonne of servers
22:23 <+md_5> by just spamming thousands of connects from a small set of ips
22:23 < Dinnerbone> But at that point the legacy connection fails because of rate limit
22:23 < Dinnerbone> :D
22:23 <+md_5> by rate limiting each IP we solve that issue
22:23 <+md_5> however it does leave it open to flooding :( I guess I'll need to do something like irc +j   4 connects in 4 seconds or something
22:25 <+md_5> <CafeBabe> [BungeeCord] md-5 pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/-g8uMQ
22:25 <+md_5> <CafeBabe> BungeeCord/master 220a95a md_5: We cannot throttle like this if we want 1.7 compat, lets disable it until we work on a more compatible one.
22:26 < Dinnerbone> Well ideally you'll have 1.7 pinging out of the box soon anyhows
22:26 <+md_5> Dinnerbone also did you test straight craftbukkit servers?
22:26 < Dinnerbone> So this won't be an issue for long
22:26 <+md_5> because they still have an identical throttle
22:26 < Dinnerbone> I don't think so, had none on my list
22:26 < Dinnerbone> But isn't theirs based on vanillas?
22:26 <+md_5> vanilla removed it
22:26 <+md_5> craftbukkit kept it
22:27 < Dinnerbone> I see
22:27 <+md_5> it really should be removed entirely
22:27 <+md_5> main reason bungee has it is because people demanded it
22:27 <+md_5> "craftbukkit has it, bungee needs to as well"
22:27  * md_5 shrug, they can deal with that
22:28 < Dinnerbone> :D
22:28 <+md_5> I'll get 1.7 pinging in when the snapshot is out
22:28 < Dinnerbone> I think you'll like 1.7s ping
22:28 <+md_5> the json is nice because you can put arbitrary data in the response
22:29 <+md_5> still dont like the idea of different packets based on state though
22:29 < Dinnerbone> In 1.7 connections have a defined protocol in place; the packets you can send and the way you send them is based on your current protocol. We have: status, login, play right now. In future we may have chat-only connections etc
22:29 < Dinnerbone> It's the best way when you think about the different states we keep having to imply
22:30 < SinZ> ooh, a chat-only connection
22:30 < Dinnerbone> Right now you connect to a server and it prepares to log you in but oh wait you're actually just pinging it nevermind let's handle that
22:30 < Dinnerbone> Or whilst you're logging in you could send any other packet you want and it's okay
22:30 <+md_5> Grum explained it retardedly
22:31 < Dinnerbone> How did he explain it?
22:31 < Dinnerbone> Or rather what do you think it is going to be, which would be bad?
22:32 <+md_5> "lets write 0x00 as the packet ID and then give no other indication on what data is contained aside from the state variables both server and client have kept in sync". If thats the case it makes it impossible to read a single arbitrary packet outside of a connection
22:33 < Dinnerbone> You will need to know the state of the connection to understand what an arbitrary 0x00 packet ID meant
22:34 <+md_5> thats stupid
22:34 < Dinnerbone> There is no way around this; but in addition, you'd also need to have been keeping up to see where that packet boundary was (which is admitantly easier now)
22:34 < Dinnerbone> It's not
22:34 <+md_5> because it means you cannot read a stored packet
22:34 < Dinnerbone> The protocol changes right now at two points
22:34 <+sadimusi> of course there is a way: don't reuse packet IDs
22:34 < Dinnerbone> sadimusi: No.
22:34 <+md_5> you have to know what state the stored packet is in
22:34 <+md_5> having {0x00, 0x01} as the packet ID would be the logical alternative
22:34 < Dinnerbone> The protocol changes right now at two points. On connection the client requests it, and after logging in you change to play
22:35 <+md_5> so, make each packet have {protocol id, packet id}
22:35 <+md_5> much more logical
22:35 <+md_5> otherwise you have to guess the protocol, or guess the packet id based on state
22:35 < Dinnerbone> It really isn't. You're sending extra data that both parties already know, except now you need to validate that you suddenly didn't change without realizing it
22:36 <+md_5> still breaks dissecting an individual stored packet
22:37 < Dinnerbone> Inspecting arbitrary packets to know what they mean without any knowledge of the state of the connection is not something we even care to support. You need to know context, in anything. What if I sent a "entity 5 moved to 0,0,0" - what is entity 5? Should we say "entity 5, type creeper, moved to 0,0,0"?
22:37 < Dinnerbone> The answer is no. You should know context.
22:37 <+md_5> fair
22:38 < Dinnerbone> But you're really not going to get an arbitrary packet from someone and be asked to explain what it is without any context. I mean that could be a fun game but it's kinda silly.
22:38 < Dinnerbone> "Hey I received this packet what does it mean?" "Well uh, anything. Did it even come from minecraft? It looks like a HTTP request."
22:39 < Dinnerbone> "Hey I received this packet whilst logging in what does it mean?" Okay easy let's look up the ID
22:48 < ajf> Remind me, does Minecraft use legacy OpenGL, (glBegin etc.)?
--- Day changed jeu. oct. 10 2013
00:37 < benbaptist> Wait, is the entire protocol being moved to JSON or something?
00:38 < mrapple> no no no
00:38 < mrapple> just the server ping
00:38 < benbaptist> Oh, okay
00:38 < benbaptist> the MOTD/polling thing?
00:38 < mrapple> yes
00:38 < benbaptist> Ah, that's awesome. Its current form is quite odd.
00:38 < mrapple> indeed
00:39 < benbaptist> also, I like ajf's question earlier, does Minecraft use the glBegin stuff? 
00:39 < mrapple> you could decompile the client and grep for it
00:39 < benbaptist> Does it even use GLSL, or just functions?
00:39 < mrapple> i think they said they're dropping support for older versions of OpenGL
00:39 < mrapple> so i'd guess not
00:39 < benbaptist> Ah, yeah
00:40 < mrapple> i just really want the new snapshot to come out so i can start messing with it <3
00:41 < benbaptist> Also, I forgot where I heard this, but does the new protocol have a length defining the entire fourthcoming packet's length now?
00:42 < benbaptist> I just recall hearing something about this at one point.
00:42 < Dinnerbone> Packets will be: [VarInt LEN] [VarInt ID] [Payload]
00:42 < benbaptist> Ah, that's awesome. That'll make life so much easier. 
00:42 < benbaptist> IDs will now be integers?
00:43 < Dinnerbone> On the wire? Or internally?
00:43 < benbaptist> on the wire
00:43 < Dinnerbone> Var int
00:43 < Dinnerbone> Could be 1 byte could be 3
00:44 < benbaptist> Oh yeah
04:19 < benbaptist> Can minecraft do anything other than pixel shaders right now?
04:33 < dexter0> only post-processing shaders atm, apparently
06:19 < Grum> <+md_5> [22:34:07] thats stupid <-- no what is stupid is that we can send packets at ant given time that have NOTHING to do with what we are doing right now
06:19 < Grum> and that period is over
06:39 < Grum> I mean, before we kinda had to do this state-tracking implicit in the code, you cannot send 'these packets while you are ingame' (the auth/key/info related ones)
06:40 < Grum> we just took this one step further, and we simply forget about the existence of those packets at a certain time
06:40 < Grum> and then we might as well reset the ids, for us it matters little
06:40 < Grum> and it keeps the protocol small and gapless
12:01 < Jckf> Grum: So basically, you have a pre-auth protocol, and a post-auth protocol?
12:12 < SinZ> We mostly handle it like that anyway
12:48 < barneygale> Jckf: iirc server list ping is its own protocol too
12:49 < barneygale> and each of those is split into two protocols, for each direction
12:50 < barneygale> meaning (I assume) that packets may differ a lot more between directions
13:27 < Grum> Jckf: yes
16:41 < Dinnerbone> Snapshot is out, fyi. Enjoy.
16:41 <+AndrewPH> make me >:(
16:44  * Dinnerbone forces AndrewPH to smile
16:44  * Grum stabs AndrewPH with the snapshot
16:44 <+AndrewPH> nnnnnnoddhddghsdgsgb :)
16:45  * Grum nods to Dinnerbone. He's enjoying himself now!
16:45 < Grum> job well done!
16:45 < Dinnerbone> :D
16:48 < AlphaBlend> Dinnerbone, grum: You both are so kawaii.
17:00 < iBotPeaches> sadimusi loves new snapshots, means burger work :p
17:00 <+sadimusi> I won't have time to work on that for at least 3 days
17:32 < TkTech> sadimusi: Lies, you don't need to work or live.
17:39  * mbaxter fetches rope to tie him down.
18:39 < Drainedsoul> there really needs to be a way for the server to tell the client to render clouds higher
18:44 < frostyfrog> And a configuration option for how high they are, if that's implemented.
18:55 < barneygale> New snapshot is crashing on the white "mojang" screen
19:01 < iBotPeaches> barneygale: didn't here. playing now
19:02 < barneygale> Yeah, something up with my PC
19:02 < barneygale> I just cleared .minecraft and tried again, still white screening
19:03 < dx> just check the stack trace, it will surely have useful debugging information
19:04 < barneygale> No stack trace. It hangs after "OpenAL initialized"
19:07 < dx> >Finished downloading /home/dx/.minecraft/libraries/io/netty/netty-all/4.0.9.Final/netty-all-4.0.9.Final.jar
19:07 < dx> woo
19:11 < dx> what am i supposed to do with the snapshot now?
19:12 < barneygale> I'm going to have a look in wireshark for starters
19:13 < pdelvo> why do the cool snapshots always come up when I have no time at all :/
19:13 < dx> i'm staring at the server list right now
19:13 < barneygale> damn this issue
19:13 < barneygale> I think I'm going to try rebooting :/
19:13 < dx> seems to be as reliable as it was before http://dump.dequis.org/sRxAL.png
19:20 < barneygale> bah, yeah, what is going on. Everything up to 1.6.4 works fine, but 13w38,39,41 all freeze the moment the main menu should show up.
19:21 < pdelvo> works fine for my. what OS, gpu are you using? Are your drivers up to date?
19:27 < barneygale> 64-bit linux mint, integrated graphics (laptop)
19:27 < barneygale> one mo I'll get specifics
19:28 < dx> barneygale: glxinfo | grep -i "OpenGL version"
19:28 < dx> (..that -i is pretty pointless)
19:28 < barneygale> dx: OpenGL version string: 3.0 Mesa 9.0.3
19:29 < pdelvo> hm 3.0 should work
19:29 < barneygale> I'll go check the changelog for 13w38
19:29 < dx> there are other 1.7 snapshots before 13w38
19:29 < dx> it got a bit messy with the 1.6.4 release
19:30 < barneygale> 37 works for me
19:30 < pdelvo> I think it stops working when they increased the required opengl version
19:30 < barneygale> but surely it shouldn't just hang, right?
19:31 < barneygale> 36 works too. Guessing it's the new OpenGL stuff, hm
19:33 < Drainedsoul> where's notifico at?
19:38 <+ammar2> #notifico
19:39 < pdelvo> why is the fxaa shader in minecraft so cpu intensive? I get about half the fps and the gpu load goes down from 50% to 35%
19:53 < Dinnerbone> barneygale: Linux? Running pulseaudio?
19:55 < dx> Dinnerbone: 14:27 < barneygale> 64-bit linux mint, integrated graphics (laptop)
19:55 < dx> not sure about pulseaudio.
19:55 < Dinnerbone> Right, that's the important part :p
19:55 < Dinnerbone> https://mojang.atlassian.net/browse/MC-31714
19:55 < Dinnerbone> For some reason pulseaudio can take 7+ minutes to initialize
19:55 < dx> fun
19:58 < dx> >Barney Gale added a comment - 6 minutes ago
19:59 < dx> apparently he found the ticket one minute before Dinnerbone suggested it could be that
19:59 < Dinnerbone> Aha
20:54 < barneygale> Yeah, I found that
20:55 < barneygale> Someone suggest pulse because it does That Sort Of Thing (TM), which I can verify
20:55 < Dinnerbone> Not too sure why it only happens in some snapshots
20:55 < barneygale> however in this case I'm not sure what's wrong. Normally if pulse is the trouble, it's already crashed, whereas pulse is still working fine for me
20:55 < Dinnerbone> But nobody here uses it to fool around and figure it out
20:59 < barneygale> I'll check the pulse log
20:59 < barneygale> It seems unlikely to me, but better to eliminate possibilities I suppose :)
21:07 < mrapple> Thinkofdeath: nice work on the pre-release protocol page, want some assistance?
21:08 < Thinkofdeath> mrapple: Sure, I'm justing finishing the Play section now
21:08 < Thinkofdeath> mrapple: If you could work out the ? packets for me it would help
21:08 < mrapple> sure i'll investigate
21:09 < barneygale> here's a dupe I think: https://mojang.atlassian.net/browse/MC-32251
21:14 < barneygale> Right, so if I misconfigure OpenAL (tried to use OSS) and make it switch to "no sound", it prints an error, but then still hangs in the same place
21:19 < mrapple> so it would appear there are no more protocol versions
21:24 < mrapple> Thinkofdeath: in eg.java, what are 0-67 vs 0-23?
21:24 < Thinkofdeath> b(id, class) = Clientbound a(id, class) = Serverbound
21:25 < mrapple> aha
21:25 < mrapple> what about packets that go both ways?
21:25 < Thinkofdeath> Put in both I think
21:26 < mrapple> i don't see any dupes?
21:27 < Thinkofdeath> Maybe different class but same code?
21:34 <+Amaranth> Dinnerbone: What changed? lwjgl version?
21:34 < Dinnerbone> Nope
21:35 < Dinnerbone> Lots of things changes but nothing relevant to that which I can think of
21:36 <+Amaranth> Dinnerbone: Time to bisect?
21:38 < Dinnerbone> When I get time to set up a linux system that can repro the bug, sure!
21:44 < TkTech> What's used for sound? paulscode + lwjgl OpenAL?
21:50 < barneygale> Right, I set OpenAL to use the null sound driver and problem persists. I also note that when I launch 1.6.4 (successfully) the last line of console output I get is the same (OpenAL initialized)
21:50 < barneygale> so I think that's a red herring..
21:54 < Grum> < mrapple> [21:25:09] what about packets that go both ways? <-- those do not exist anymore
22:04 < barneygale> has the auth process been changed a lot? or simply moved over to the new protocol?
22:07 < mrapple> Grum: good to know, thanks
22:08 < Grum> mrapple: we have identical packets, they are different classes for either server or client bound
22:14 < iBotPeaches> damn Thinkofdeath you've been busy. nice work
22:15 < Thinkofdeath> iBotPeaches: Thanks, most packets haven't changed so its just a job of finding their new ids
22:16 < Grum> < barneygale> [19:31:26] 36 works too. Guessing it's the new OpenGL stuff, hm <-- you videocard drivers suck, its lying and then dying
22:17 < Grum> Thinkofdeath: writeString actually writes utf8 bytes and prefixes with a varint
22:17 < Thinkofdeath> Grum: I'll add that, thanks
22:18 < Grum> todo anything with the protocol you are going to have to be able to read varints
22:18 < barneygale> I might try a different kernel version
22:18 < mrapple> Grum: sounds like a bit of code duplication, but probably a good idea
22:18 < iBotPeaches> 3.12-rc4 barneygale :p
22:19 < Grum> mrapple: its duplication now but who cares for that
22:19 < Grum> this way we can at least change them without having to worry
22:20 < Grum> btw if someone has the same id as before its pure luck
22:20 < Grum> *something
22:20 < Grum> we just collapsed the numbering to start from 0 for all things
22:20 < Thinkofdeath> Only two packets have the same id as before 
22:20 < Thinkofdeath> And its the first two
22:20 < mrapple> heh
22:21 < Grum> Thinkofdeath: hehe where was your document? :D
22:21 < mrapple> Thinkofdeath: how did you figure out a = clientbound and b = serverbound? the enum in eg, eh, and ei don't implement a() or b()
22:22 < Grum> eg == broken when you use JAD
22:22 < Grum> and you kinad need that file *badly*
22:22 < mrapple> hm
22:22 < Grum> it contains *all* packets, all ids for all different 'protocols'
22:22 < iBotPeaches> dump it for us :p
22:22 < mrapple> i used fernflower
22:23 < mrapple> is it broken with fernflower and jad?
22:23 < Grum> no idea
22:23 < Thinkofdeath> mrapple: Yep
22:23 < mrapple> is retroguard my other option I guess?
22:23 < Grum> pastie what you see? :D
22:23 < mrapple> this is with fernflower http://www.sourcedrop.net/EaH70cc33c8f7
22:24 < Grum> taht is just one set of packets
22:24 < Thinkofdeath> It extends https://gist.github.com/thinkofdeath/f6480d1e6ad7be31aa22
22:24 < Grum> there are 3 more
22:24 < Drainedsoul> the varint before a UTF-8 string is the strings length in what?
22:24 < Thinkofdeath> ef, eg, eh, ei
22:24 < Grum> ah no i see
22:24 < Thinkofdeath> Drainedsoul: All packets
22:24 < Grum> yeah
22:24 < Grum> it made subclasses
22:24 < Grum> from the enum entries
22:24 < Grum> because we did: FOO(int) {{ .... }}
22:25 < Drainedsoul> Thinkofdeath: I meant what is it measured in?
22:25 < Thinkofdeath> Drainedsoul: bytes
22:25 < Drainedsoul> that's a relief.
22:26 < mrapple> what are my other options for decompilation?
22:26 < Grum> mrapple: nothing tbh; but it seems Thinkofdeath has figured it out
22:27 < mrapple> ah
22:27 < mrapple> ee has helpful information
22:27 < Grum> ee should have 4 entries
22:27 < Grum> the second one being eg
22:27 < Thinkofdeath> Jad loses those
22:27 < Grum> and b is indeed 'serverbound'
22:28 <+sadimusi> mrapple: did jd-gui come up yet?
22:28 < TkTech> sadimusi: eg is piss easy to parse now.
22:28 < TkTech> (Also jd-gui does eg just fine)
22:28 <+sadimusi> yay
22:29 < Grum> TkTech: just looks weird
22:29 < mrapple> oo i forgot about jd-gui
22:29 < Grum> but that is javas magic around enums
22:29 < TkTech> Yeah, but that doesn't matter for sadimusi. The bytecode is clean.
22:29 < Grum> there is a new one btw; procyon
22:30 < Grum> https://bitbucket.org/mstrobel/procyon/wiki/Java%20Decompiler
22:30 < mrapple> jd-gui doesn't do eg correctly for me TkTech 
22:31 < mrapple> this is jd-gui for eg http://www.sourcedrop.net/qdl70e80274f8
22:31 < TkTech> That looks correct, what more do you need?
22:32 < TkTech> That's the packets and their IDs in both directions
22:32 < mrapple> it's the same thing i got with fernflower
22:32 < mrapple> it's still technically not "correct"
22:32 < mrapple> i'm testing out procyon to see what it does
22:32 < Flemmard> a decompiler wont give you 'working' code (or not every time)
22:33 < Grum> http://www.benf.org/other/cfr/how-are-enums-implemented.html <-- enum-info ;)
22:42 < Grum> brr string switches http://www.benf.org/other/cfr/java7switchonstring.html
22:45 < Thinkofdeath> Disconnect seems to use JSON formatting now
22:47 < mrapple> i'm decompiling the client as well to figure out how the handshake packet 0 is used
23:03 < TkTech> https://gist.github.com/TkTech/7102a88b03deba305807
23:03 < TkTech> 5-minute toy
23:04 < dx> nice!
23:06 < mrapple> anyone know what's up with all these interfaces that extend eq?
23:13 < TkTech> mrapple: Not that many classes, https://gist.github.com/TkTech/ef35a41003757d541add
23:13 < mrapple> seven makes sense
23:13 < mrapple> one client bound one server bound for each state
23:18 < TkTech> All the SourceFile attributes have been changed to "SourceFile" :|
23:20  * TkTech hasn't touched jawa in so long he has to use the manual ;|
23:20 < TkTech> In hindsight, glad I wrote docs.
23:28 < Thinkofdeath> Ok every packet should be on the wiki now.
23:29 < Thinkofdeath> Some still need documenting
23:30 < balrog> Grum: how does Procyon compare to ff?
23:30 < Thinkofdeath> (Side note: The "Player Digging" packet seems to be missing)
23:36 <+Amaranth> Grum: I think procyon is used by the dev.bukkit.org people
23:56 < Drainedsoul> so the packet internals weren't significantly changed?
--- Day changed ven. oct. 11 2013
00:04 < Thinkofdeath> Drainedsoul: Nope
00:05 < Thinkofdeath> IDs changed and some packets changed a little
00:05 < Drainedsoul> that's a shame
00:05 < Drainedsoul> I was hoping 0x33 would get an internal format that's a little less insane :(
00:09 <+Amaranth> Drainedsoul: What do you think a better 0x33 would look like?
00:10 <+Amaranth> The boolean seems superfluous but otherwise it's alright
00:11 < Drainedsoul> I think it should support columns higher than 256, but there's a pipe dream.
00:11 < Drainedsoul> most importantly I think that it should have just an array of blocks, rather than an array of IDs, followed by an array of...
00:11 <+Amaranth> Compresses better this way
00:17 < Drainedsoul> just seems like a shame to have to rip it apart to put it in memory :(
00:27 < mrapple> Thinkofdeath: i improved some of the question mark packets under play, moving to status/login now
00:27 <+Amaranth> Drainedsoul: For something that large spending a little extra CPU time to get better compression is worth it
00:30 < Cubixmeister> mrapple: is new protocol completely based on protocolbuffers or just uses varints?
00:30 < mrapple> it just uses varints
00:30 < Cubixmeister> ok, thanks
00:31 < Drainedsoul> are the varints being converted back to the same types as before?  I.e. should we be enforcing the same numerical limits?
01:02 <+Amaranth> I thought it was only use varints for packet ids and lengths
01:02 <+Amaranth> packet lengths, I mean
01:05 < mrapple> ids and lengths
01:14 < Drainedsoul> well for lengths it's important to know whether they have an upper limit
01:25 < Thinkofdeath> https://gist.github.com/thinkofdeath/6927216 Haven't worked out how to send it yet but that is a job for tomorrow now
01:30 < barneygale> oh my lord, server list ping returns a player list?
01:31 < barneygale> that's fantastic news :D
01:32 < dividuum> redstonehelper, the server download link in your reddit posting is pointing to a non-existing url
01:33 < redstonehelper> dividuum: I'll get on that in a minute, thanks
01:34 < mrapple> barneygale: only a sample, not all the data i'd presume
01:34 < mrapple> though i didn't look too deep in the code
01:34 < mrapple> time to start updating bungee ;)
01:35 < barneygale> Argh wish I could run the snapshot
01:36 < redstonehelper> dividuum: thanks, fixed
02:12 < dividuum> random notes while reading the code using jd-gui: ej contains the varint encoder/decoder.
02:22 < dividuum> the tcp connection is using TOS (low delay & throughput) :-)
02:24 < dividuum> ml handles legacy queries (if first byte is 0xFE)
02:28 < dividuum> mp sets up the decoder/encoder pipeline. it's always splitter (read var int size header) -> optional decryption (see ek, method a) -> decoder (parsed the packet)
02:29 < dividuum> looks like eh is related to the handshake (0x01 -> json server query response, 0x00 -> some empty packet)
02:36 < dividuum> in there, b(...) are clientbound packets (that is packets received from the server), while a are serverbound (received from client) (see ee.class)
02:46 < dividuum> looks like the packet id is a varint too (eo.class, the localej.a() call uses the varint decoder)
02:47 < umby24> http://wiki.vg/Pre-release_protocol#Packet_format
02:47 < dividuum> hey. at least i was correct. :-)
02:47 < dividuum> thanks for the link. missed that somehow
02:49 < umby24> no problem, and indeed you were :P
03:27 <+clonejo> I want to do a protocol implementation in Rust, but Rust is failing me sofar :-(
03:35 < TkTech> Maybe it's a bit rusty?
03:36 < TkTech> badum tish.
03:39 <+clonejo> TkTech: https://gist.github.com/clonejo/6928384
03:42 <+clonejo> I shall throw that at #rust...
03:44 < dx> i need a website like "is-rust-mature-enough-for-production-yet.com", with huge text that tells me either YES/MAYBE/NO
03:50 < TkTech> "let mut reader = ~MemReader::new(~[17u8, 1u8, 3u8]) as ~Reader;"
04:09 <+clonejo> TkTech: ?
04:10 <+clonejo> removing the cast doesn't change anything
04:11 <+clonejo> I don't recall why I had it in there
04:15 < TkTech> Just a silent comment on syntax.
04:15 < Drainedsoul> http://i.imgur.com/DnJjgDt.png anyone have any ideas about this?  Bottom two layers of all columns I send are like this, everything else is fine.  Lines run in the X direction.
04:19 < TkTech> http://imgur.com/a/JLZF8 You should have seen the look on the managers face when we asked for 150 turkeys.
04:20 < TkTech> Drainedsoul: Can you render the rest of the chunk? If you try to put a layer at the very top of a chunk what happens?
04:20 < TkTech> (Off by one?)
04:22 < dx> Drainedsoul: i don't have any constructive comments about it, but it looks really nice.
04:25 < Drainedsoul> http://i.imgur.com/FCVVhCW.png layer at the top seems alright
04:26 <+clonejo> fix to my Rust problem: https://gist.github.com/clonejo/6928384#file-example-fixed-rs-L5
04:27 < Drainedsoul> TkTech: Why so many turkeys?
04:28 < Drainedsoul> clonejo: "~MemReader::new(~[17u8, 1u8, 3u8])" what does that even mean
04:29 <+clonejo> ~ is like *, but an unique/owning pointer, there can be only one to that chunk of memory
04:30 <+clonejo> u8 is just a 1 byte integer
04:30 < Drainedsoul> does Rust not allow you to create objects on the stack?
04:30 <+clonejo> it does
04:31 < Drainedsoul> why do you need pointer semantics then
04:32 <+clonejo> the new function takes a pointer
04:33 < Drainedsoul> what does that line do?
04:34 <+clonejo> or are you refering to the first "~"?
04:35 < Drainedsoul> I'm referring to the whole thing
04:36 < dx> yeah, i have no idea what it all means either
04:37 < dx> which makes it look even more fun than it probably is
04:37 <+clonejo> MemReader::new is a class method I pass a vector of bytes to
04:39 < TkTech> Drainedsoul: Work decided this morning to randomly donate turkeys to the ottawa mission for thanksgiving.
04:40 < Drainedsoul> TkTech: You're Canadian?
04:40 < TkTech> That's $1400 of turkeys ($700 by employees then matched by the comp)
04:40 < TkTech> Yar
04:40 < Drainedsoul> Just when I was beginning to feel like the only one
04:40 < TkTech> There are a fair many of us. 
04:40 < Drainedsoul> \o/
04:40 < TkTech> Plenty here in the GTA
04:41 < Drainedsoul> if they'd drawn the border straight I'd be an American :[
04:41 < TkTech> Thank god for the drunk guy.
04:42 < Drainedsoul> yeah that's how it feels sometimes with borders
04:45 < mrapple> as much of a PITA this new protocol update is
04:45 < mrapple> it's definitley a step in the right direction
04:45 < mrapple> well done db and grm
06:30 < Not-002> [MCPP] RobertLeahy pushed 3 commits to master [+0/-0/±3] http://git.io/kb-BLQ
06:30 < Not-002> [MCPP] RobertLeahy 82f074b - Formatting Fix
06:31 < Not-002> [MCPP] RobertLeahy 89fd9c2 - Compression Fixes
06:31 < Not-002> [MCPP] RobertLeahy 44bb64b - Mod Loader Fix
06:31 < Drainedsoul> oh Notifico's back, cool.
06:36 < Not-002> [MCPP] RobertLeahy pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±2] http://git.io/D6qgFg
06:36 < Not-002> [MCPP] RobertLeahy 182dfa5 - Column Loading/Sending Exception Safety
06:36 < Not-002> [MCPP] RobertLeahy 8ff88fc - Random Number Generator Factories
06:58 < Grum> tx mrapple
10:07 < nyuszika7h> has anyone ever written a Minecraft client in Ruby?
10:07 < nyuszika7h> I've been considering writing one like pyCraft
10:14 < Grum> nyuszika7h: should be simpler than ever now with the latest snapshot :P
10:15 < nyuszika7h> Grum: really? nice
10:15 < nyuszika7h> is there a change list yet?
10:15 < nyuszika7h> for protocol that is
10:15 < dav1d> burger?
10:15 < nyuszika7h> dav1d: yes, a Big Mac please
10:15 < Thinkofdeath> http://wiki.vg/Pre-release_protocol
10:15 < nyuszika7h> </troll>
10:16 < dav1d> I am disappointed sadimusi :D
10:16 < nyuszika7h> ah, it's updated for 13w41a? nice, thanks :)
10:16 < nyuszika7h> heh, protocol version 0
10:16 < nyuszika7h> seems legit
10:16 < dav1d> oh dear, I don't wanna update brala^^
10:17 < Grum> nyuszika7h: dont be silly :P
10:17 < Grum> i just removed another 3 packets =)
10:17 < nyuszika7h> is the version going to be static, or will you use 0, 1, 2 - or 0, -1, -2? :P
10:18 < Grum> 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, infinity
10:18 < Grum> its a varint, so it can grow ;)
10:19 < Grum> and nothing prevent us from making it 128bits :P
10:19 < Grum> should be plenty!
10:19 < Grum> i just deleted 0x08, 0x09, 0x0A
10:19 < Grum> (so all the ids shift ;D)
10:19 < nyuszika7h> Grum: wait, how will you detect 1.6.4 servers with the new protocol version scheme?
10:19 < Grum> nyuszika7h: we dont
10:20 < nyuszika7h> so what will it say for 1.6.4 servers? /me is curious :P
10:20 < Grum> we have some backwards compat magic in the ping-thing which actually doesnt work so well because of throttling :P
10:20 < Grum> how do you mean what will it say?
10:20 < nyuszika7h> will it give a meaningful error or just unable to connect?
10:20 < Grum> like normal: 1.6.4 in red =)
10:20 < Grum> oh
10:20 < Grum> no idea actually
10:20 < Grum> good point :P
10:20 < Grum> hmmm
10:20 < Grum> nah i think we dont support that
10:20 < Grum> you can see it in the list
10:21 < Grum> (dont and wont)
10:21 < nyuszika7h> Grum: I meant how will the list detect it, yes
10:21 < Grum> it uses fallback
10:21 < nyuszika7h> will it detect a packet or so for older versions?
10:21 < nyuszika7h> or some magic?
10:21 < Grum> tries twice
10:21 < Grum> if the first fails
10:21 < Grum> with 'weird error'
10:21 < nyuszika7h> what if you collide with existing protocol versions? same magic? :P
10:22 < nyuszika7h> no idea where you started old protocol versions, so it might be some versions until you get to colliding, or not
10:22 < Grum> that doesnt matter at all
10:22 < Grum> the whole protocol is different
10:22 < Grum> incompatible in every single way
10:22 < Grum> in *theory* you can craft a packet that would work for both i guess
10:22 < nyuszika7h> ah, so same magic works for detecting old versions if the new one doesn't work, right?
10:22 < Grum> but i havent looked at it
10:23 < Grum> i kinda do not want to bother with it =)
10:23 < nyuszika7h> I wouldn't mind if it would just say "old version" or something if detecting it is too much work, Grum, I'm simply curious :P
10:24 < Grum> the serverlist does that
10:24 < Grum> well it tries to; it fails often because of throttling on the server (so it pretends to be down)
10:24 < nyuszika7h> I guess protocol version wouldn't matter for the list detection, even if the old and new versions collide
10:24 < nyuszika7h> as you said it just tries twice
10:24 < nyuszika7h> if you get an error, it falls back
10:25 < nyuszika7h> weird error, or whatever :P
10:25 < Grum> it really isnt this hard
10:25 < Grum> assume the old protocol is incompatible in every single way with the new one
10:25 < nyuszika7h> I'm just curious and not explaining myself clearly, sorry :P
10:26 < Grum> this means that when we 'ping' the server using the new protocol we get some weird reply back from 1.6.4
10:26 < Grum> after that we try the 1.6.4 format ping, the problem now is that the 1.6.4 server often throttles connections 
10:26 < nyuszika7h> I see
10:26 < Grum> so you see it as 'offline'
10:27 < Grum> a 1.6.4 server would reply with a 'kick' packet when you talk to it in a broken protocol
10:27 < nyuszika7h> ah
10:27 < Grum> so we could detect 'old stuff' this way
10:27 < Grum> now, on actually connecting
10:27 < Grum> i think that just breaks hard :p
10:27 < nyuszika7h> yeah, I meant to talk about the list, not connecting
10:27 < nyuszika7h> Grum: idea
10:28 < nyuszika7h> would it be possible to ping the server with direct connect, to get MOTD, version and stuff? or would you rather avoid the hassle? :P
10:28 < Grum> ?
10:28 < dav1d> oh god variants
10:28 < Grum> varints :p
10:28 < dav1d> hopefully not notchian like variants
10:28 < Grum> wha? :(
10:29 < Grum> nyuszika7h: 'with direct connect' ?
10:29 < nyuszika7h> Grum: like, show MOTD like in server list when you use direct connect - though either you need to press connect twice or detect when the user stops typing (which might be inaccurate if the user is a slow typer)
10:29 < dav1d> :)
10:29 < dav1d> Grum: thanks for not inventing your own possibly broken stuff
10:29 < Grum> nyuszika7h: euuh not worth it
10:29 < nyuszika7h> probably better to keep it for the server list
10:29 < Grum> dav1d: i never do that kind of shit, i prefer using libraries
10:29 < nyuszika7h> I guessed so after thinking about it, Grum 
10:29 < dav1d> Grum: tell that notch :P
10:30 < Grum> we would have used the protobuf library, but we didnt want to add a useless 0.5mb JUST for varints
10:30 < Grum> so i just wrote my own implementation, then verified with how google did it
10:30 < nyuszika7h> nice to see MC using Netty, btw
10:30 < nyuszika7h> Spigot is using it already
10:30 < Grum> nyuszika7h: this just shows you have no idea what you are talking about hehee
10:31 < nyuszika7h> Grum: not much, indeed
10:31 < dav1d> Grum: little thing, why is the port a VarInt?
10:31 < dav1d> Grum: it can never be > than short.max
10:31 < nyuszika7h> yeah port is 1-65535
10:31 < nyuszika7h> or is 0 valid?
10:31 < nyuszika7h> I don't think so
10:32 < nyuszika7h> nyuszika7h@cadoth ~ % socat -d -d - TCP-LISTEN:0
10:32 < nyuszika7h> 2013/10/11 10:32:02 socat[30741] N reading from and writing to stdio
10:32 < nyuszika7h> 2013/10/11 10:32:02 socat[30741] N listening on AF=2 0.0.0.0:45870
10:32 < dav1d> a short can also represent 0
10:32 < nyuszika7h> 0 means random port, at least in socat
10:32 < dav1d> but 0 is a special value iirc
10:33 < Grum> dav1d: yeah, maybe we shouldn't do that
10:33 < Grum> makes little sense, it's almost ALWAYS two bytes long
10:34 < dav1d> Grum: yep
10:34 < dav1d> I didn't look through the protocol, but I guess you cleaned it up? like y coordinate represented as byte, short, int or double?^^
10:34 < Grum> not really
10:34 < Grum> not yet
10:34 < dav1d> (my fav)
10:34 < dav1d> ah ok
10:34 < Grum> and yeah that is horrid
10:34 < Grum> meh
10:34 < Grum> err hmmmz
10:35 < Grum> writeUnsignedShort i guess :/
10:35 < Grum> and readShort
10:35 < nyuszika7h> Grum: what type is the Y coordinate in 1.6.4?
10:35 < nyuszika7h> is it some integer type, or a float?
10:35 < Grum> many 
10:35 < Grum> depends
10:35 < Grum> double, float, int, short, byte :)
10:35 < nyuszika7h> seems legit
10:37 < nyuszika7h> Grum: btw, can you help with a Bukkit thing?
10:37 < nyuszika7h> I need to get the location of the player's crosshair
10:37 < nyuszika7h> I have some implementation done that works, ish
10:37 < dav1d> gah losing connection all the time
10:37 < nyuszika7h> but it's probably not the best
10:37 < Grum> rot of the head of the player?
10:37 < Grum> oh wait
10:37 < Grum> know, crosshair? that is trivial
10:37 < nyuszika7h> I use line of sight atm
10:37 < Grum> middle of the screen >:)
10:38 < dav1d> can't you reverse the x,y position of the screen to world coordinates?
10:38 < dav1d> reversing the matrices
10:45 < Grum> why?
10:45 < Grum> euuh
10:45 < Grum> hmmm no
10:45 < Grum> you need to do collission stuff
10:45 < Grum> nyuszika7h: i am fixing this for 1.7 btw
10:45 < nyuszika7h> fixing what?
10:45 < Grum> or ... well... might not make 1.7
10:45 < Grum> but i am fixing that ;)
10:46 < Grum> knowing where the client is aiming and clicking :P
10:46 < nyuszika7h> oh
10:46 < Grum> the client will tell the server what it aimed at in the future
10:46  * nyuszika7h will just steal from Essentials :P
10:46 < Grum> you can look at the bucket code
10:46 < Grum> but its rather expensive to do it
10:47 < nyuszika7h> Grum: if you wonder, my plugin is https://github.com/nyuszika7h/LightningKit/ (2.0.0 with refactored code and /strike + /light combined into /lightning [-e] is not pushed to GitHub yet, it's in dev)
10:48 < nyuszika7h> Essentials has that... but mine can make effects, and I do it for fun too :P
10:49 < Grum> it should be pushed to github WHILE in dev
10:49 < Grum> silly ;)
11:33 <+sadimusi> dav1d: I would love to play around with the new snapshot, but unfortunately I have a big deadline coming up tomorrow
11:43 < dav1d> sadimusi: good to hear, it's over tomorrow :). Good Luck!
11:45 <+sadimusi> dav1d: it probably won't just be over. There will be dozens of bugs to fix and I also have to deploy it sometime next week.
11:48 < nyuszika7h> I'm going to see if I can notice anything with the PA OpenAL thing in the snapshots
11:53 < nyuszika7h> Grum: I know, I'm going to push a 2.0.0-dev soon
11:53 < nyuszika7h> I don't push untested stuff though
11:53 < nyuszika7h> the current changes are tested, but was too lazy to push
11:55 < nyuszika7h> also, about untested stuff, as I'll use -dev versions pushing them won't be a problem (though in most cases I'll test before to make sure the code makes sense), I just need to make sure I don't RELEASE untested stuff
11:56 < dav1d> nyuszika7h: normally you make commits after every change
11:56 < dav1d> helps you a shitton out later on
11:56 < nyuszika7h> dav1d: I know
11:56 < dav1d> and push unttested stuff, it's fun :D
11:56 < nyuszika7h> dav1d: I'm just not used to hosting stuff with actual releases on GitHub :P
11:56 < dav1d> I always do and I don't care^^
11:57 < dav1d> nyuszika7h: use "tags" for releases
11:57 < nyuszika7h> I know, yes, found out about them in meantime
11:57 < dav1d> (internet please come back)
11:57 < dav1d> :(
11:58 < nyuszika7h> dav1d: how are you here if you have no internet?
11:58 < nyuszika7h> 3G or something?
11:58 < dav1d> jap
11:58 < dav1d> tethering
11:58 < Flemmard> *magic*
11:58 < nyuszika7h> ah
11:58 < Flemmard> so you *have* internet :P
11:58 < dav1d> but for how long :/
11:58 < dav1d> and no yt/streams
11:59 < nyuszika7h> dav1d: is your plan limited, or is it pay for usage?
11:59 < dav1d> 1GiB/month
11:59 < nyuszika7h> 100 MB/month here
11:59 < nyuszika7h> for 1000 HUF, that is...
11:59 < dav1d> ah nvm
11:59 < dav1d> 2GiB/month
11:59 < nyuszika7h> $4.6, and 3.4 EUR
12:00 < dav1d> paying 10€, 1k free minutes, 1k free sms, 1k free minutes into the same net
12:00 < dav1d> and the 2GiB internet
12:00 < nyuszika7h> dav1d: here, it's about 9000-10000 HUF/month for internet, phone and TV combined
12:01 < dav1d> so 50€?
12:01 < nyuszika7h> ADSL2+ 15M/900k (usually around 10M/768k, sometimes goes above that)
12:01 < dav1d> yeah we pay the same @home
12:01 < nyuszika7h> no, 30-34 EUR
12:01 < nyuszika7h> according to Google
12:01 < dav1d> we pay around 40€
12:02 < nyuszika7h> also we have satellite TV with almost 100 channels
12:02 < dav1d> almost 100?^^
12:02 < nyuszika7h> I think so
12:02 < dav1d> our satellite has more than 2k
12:02 < dav1d> (we don't use it no more though)
12:02 < nyuszika7h> *sigh*
12:02 < nyuszika7h> restarting i3 doesn't make it source /etc/profile
12:02 < nyuszika7h> time to source it manually
12:03 <+sadimusi> nyuszika7h: how can you survive on 768k up?
12:04 < nyuszika7h> sadimusi: I don't upload that much, for what I upload (rsyncing stuff from/to my server) it's usually enough, except for a few cases
12:04 < Flemmard> whatever bandwidth you have, it's *never* enough :>
12:05 <+sadimusi> I pay around $70 for TV (only around 50 channels) + Phone (don't use it) + Internet (150m/10m)
12:05 <+sadimusi> and for all practical purposes that's fast enough
12:05 < dav1d> switzerland...
12:06 < nyuszika7h> Client> [12:06:08] [MCO Availability Checker #1/ERROR]: Couldn't connect to Realms
12:06 < nyuszika7h> seems legit
12:06 < nyuszika7h> ._.
12:06 < nyuszika7h> why doesn't the launcher pass _JAVA_AWT_WM_NONREPARENTING to MC?
12:07 < nyuszika7h> I'll try wmname
12:07 < nyuszika7h> community/wmname 0.1-2
12:07 < nyuszika7h>     An utility to set the name of your window manager
12:07 < nyuszika7h> "an"
12:07 < nyuszika7h> seems legit
12:09 < nyuszika7h> heh
12:09 < nyuszika7h> nyuszika7h@ymlyna ~ % wmname --help
12:09 < nyuszika7h> nyuszika7h@ymlyna ~ % wmname
12:09 < nyuszika7h> --help
12:09 < nyuszika7h> dav1d: what was the wmname trick?
12:09 < dav1d> wmname LG3D
12:09 < nyuszika7h> thanks
12:09 < dav1d> but it has sideeffects
12:09 < dav1d> clicking on links automatically switches to chromium etc.
12:09 < dav1d> I don't like that
12:09 < nyuszika7h> dav1d: doesn't work :/
12:10 < nyuszika7h> oh
12:10 < dav1d> well, the parenting thing works for me
12:10 < nyuszika7h> toggling floating mode on and off helps
12:12 < nyuszika7h> also
12:12 < nyuszika7h> there really should be an option to log commands in the vanilla server
12:12 < nyuszika7h> and make "Game rule has been updated" messages more meaningful, like CraftBukkit does it
12:13 < nyuszika7h> well
12:13 < nyuszika7h> ok, MC starts fast with just ALSA
12:13 < nyuszika7h> time to install PA
12:13 < nyuszika7h> what I never understood is, why are ALSA volumes so weird without PA?
12:14 < nyuszika7h> you can't have exactly 50% and stuff
12:14 < nyuszika7h> it goes 48, 52, 56
12:15 < nyuszika7h> WTF
12:15 < nyuszika7h> I did "sudo systemctl restart sound.target"
12:16 < nyuszika7h> 'Welcome to emergency mode!"
12:16 < nyuszika7h> back
12:19 < nyuszika7h> ugh, can't get PA to work
12:22 < nyuszika7h> ok, works now
12:31 < nyuszika7h> woo, automatic wireless setup also works now
12:33 < nyuszika7h> weird, I can't reproduce the issue with PA
12:33 < nyuszika7h> 13w41a starts normally
12:34 < nyuszika7h> I wonder why some messages don't have timestamps, btw
14:05 < dav1d> because they are printed rather sent through the logger?
14:09 < nyuszika7h> dav1d: maybe
14:09 < nyuszika7h> s/maybe/I guess/
14:09 < nyuszika7h> also, can't reproduce the PulseAudio issue even with GNOME 3
14:09 < nyuszika7h> it starts up quite fast
14:10 < nyuszika7h> also, the new look of GNOME 3 is so much better than the earlier look
14:10 < nyuszika7h> the default background is slightly more vivid too
14:10 < nyuszika7h> though I still lack a taskbar or similar
14:47 < nyuszika7h> Dinnerbone: for when you're back - I can't reproduce the OpenAL freeze issue
14:48 < nyuszika7h> Linux ymlyna 3.11.4-1-ARCH #1 SMP PREEMPT Sat Oct 5 21:22:51 CEST 2013 x86_64 GNU/Linux
14:48 < nyuszika7h> pulseaudio 4.0-265-g35fe
14:48 < nyuszika7h> I'll post that on Mojira later... however now I have to go.
15:28 < nyuszika7h> friend reproduced bug on:
15:28 < nyuszika7h> Linux laptop 3.7.10-1.16-desktop #1 SMP PREEMPT Fri May 31 20:21:23 UTC 2013
15:28 < nyuszika7h> pulseaudio 3.0
15:34 < nyuszika7h> can't reproduce on:
15:34 < nyuszika7h> Linux dash 3.2.0-4-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 3.2.46-1+deb7u1 x86_64 GNU/Linux
15:34 < nyuszika7h> pulseaudio 2.0
15:35 < nyuszika7h> first uname: Arch Linux, second uname: openSUSE 12.3, third uname: Debian 7.1 (wheezy)
17:59 < AlphaBlend> how long can the player name be in the TAB window?
17:59 < AlphaBlend> i have a feeling the limit was increased a vew versions back
17:59 < Calinou> don't know but it depends on max players (more max players = more columns)
17:59 < Calinou> else it'll look weird
17:59 < AlphaBlend> no, the actual length of each name
18:00 < AlphaBlend> if it was over 15 in the past it would crash the client with name length too long
18:00 < AlphaBlend> that's why i'm saying i feel as if this was changed recently
18:00 < AlphaBlend> as i went on a server that had custom name lengths over 15
18:02 < Thinkofdeath> AlphaBlend: In the snapshot its 16
18:03 < AlphaBlend> hm
19:14 < redstonehelper> if alphablend comes back someone should remind him the scoreboard prefixes and suffixes are displayed as well
19:15 <+sadimusi> die anybody check how many players are sent with the server list ping?
19:20 < Dinnerbone> Up to 12 random players on the server
20:01 < TkTech> Dinnerbone: What was the reasoning behind 12 random players?
20:01 < Dinnerbone> Arbitrary limit, but more than a dozen doesn't make too much sense
20:01 < Dinnerbone> It's only useful for smaller servers
20:03 < TkTech> Just thinking. Plenty of servers don't have query enabled so there's no way to get the full player list.
20:04 < Dinnerbone> The server status packet is not intended to replace query right now
20:05 < Dinnerbone> For larger servers it would just be a waste to send so much data every ping
20:06 < Dinnerbone> I may be adding some data to the status request to ask for larger queries though, so we'll see
20:11 < TkTech> Yeah, a simple optional byte tools can set (or can be used in the client for a "Server Details" frame) to get all of them.
20:12 < TkTech> Chunk the response and give it lower IO priority for the servers with hundreds of players.
21:28 <+clonejo> Minecraft's varints are always unsigned, aren't they?
22:37 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 1 commit to master [+5/-1/±7] http://git.io/Ng4Obg
22:37 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath ae1d49a - all: Update to 13w41a. Some things are still broken
22:47 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±4] http://git.io/hPwmcg
22:47 < Not-002> [netherrack] thinkofdeath 6dfbc52 - protocol: Corrected UseBed -> PlayerDigging
22:56 < ellisvlad> Hello World!
22:59 < ellisvlad> I don't suppose anyone knows anything about the huge server protocol changes in the snapshot xD
23:00 < Thinkofdeath> ellisvlad: http://wiki.vg/Pre-release_protocol
23:00 < Thinkofdeath> (Not updated to 13w41b yet)
23:04 < ellisvlad> ooh, thank you :P
23:09 < ellisvlad> Fun weekend ahead of me... attempting to add the new protocol to my C++ Minecraft server ;D
23:12 < Drainedsoul> if your C++ server is well-designed it shouldn't be difficult
23:12 < Drainedsoul> if it's difficult, might be time to pay off design debt.
23:19 < ellisvlad> :P It's not going to be hard, just I see myself missing something obvious and getting really mad in a few hours...
23:27 < Not-002> [bravo] MostAwesomeDude pushed 3 commits to master [+0/-0/±3] http://git.io/bYN-Bw
23:27 < Not-002> [bravo] Corbin Simpson 5f24385 - beta/protocol: Use hex numbers in logs.
23:27 < Not-002> [bravo] Corbin Simpson c724d24 - blocks: Add spawn egg. Refs #402.
23:27 < Not-002> [bravo] Corbin Simpson 402ac3a - blocks: Add nether star and beacon. Refs #413.
23:28 < Not-002> [bravo] MostAwesomeDude pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] http://git.io/Nl91Dw
23:28 < Not-002> [bravo] Corbin Simpson 8206e48 - policy/recipes/blueprints: Add recipe for crafting beacons. Refs #413.
23:30 < Drainedsoul> ellisvlad: what C++ are you us